Bestselling Book Pulled by Publisher as ‘Boy Who Came Back from Heaven’ Recants Story

BookCAROL STREAM, Ill. — The publishers of a bestselling book written by a then-ten-year-old boy who claimed he “came back from heaven” have pulled the book from publication after the boy announced this week that he lied about his story and called upon Christians to repent for buying into “heavenly tourism.”

“I did not die. I did not go to Heaven,” Alex Malarkey, co-author of “The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven,” wrote in an open letter. “I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention.”

“When I made the claims that I did, I had never read the Bible,” he continued. “People have profited from lies, and continue to. They should read the Bible, which is enough. The Bible is the only source of truth. Anything written by man cannot be infallible.”

Malarkey had been involved in a car accident at the age of six, and was in a coma for two months. His book, published by Tyndale in 2010 and co-written with his father, claims that he died and went to heaven, having encounters with angels and ultimately meeting Jesus. The book reached bestseller status, and a documentary was also released about Malarkey’s story. Christian reviewers gave the book high marks.

But Malarkey’s admission that the story was fabricated isn’t necessarily new. Last spring, Malarkey’s mother wrote in a blog post that she had concerns about the book’s continued proliferation as her son had confessed that the book was unbiblical.

“It is both puzzling and painful to watch the book ‘The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven’ not only continue to sell, but to continue, for the most part, to not be questioned,” Beth Malarkey wrote in a post entitled “The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven…Not Quite.” “Alex’s name and identity are being used against his wishes (I have spoken before and posted about it that Alex has tried to publicly speak out against the book), on something that he is opposed to and knows to be in error according to the Bible.”

“When Alex first tried to tell a ‘pastor’ how wrong the book was and how it needed stopped, Alex was told that the book was blessing people,” she continued. “[But] Alex did not write the book and it is not blessing him! Saying that it is blessing others to try to justify its wrong is just that … justification of wrong!”

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Malarkey and her husband have since divorced following the publishing of the book.

“I want the whole world to know that the Bible is sufficient,” a now teenage Alex Malarkey wrote in his open letter this week. “Those who market these materials must be called to repent and hold the Bible as enough.”

Following his admission, Tyndale House Publishers informed reporters late Thursday that it would no longer publish “The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven.”

“Tyndale has decided to take the book and related ancillary products out of print,” Todd Starowitz, public relations director for Tyndale House told the Washington Post.

Lifeway Christian Stores, one of the nation’s largest Christian retail chains, also announced Thursday that it will pull the book from its shelves and send its copies back to Tyndale.

“LifeWay was informed this week that Alex Malarkey has retracted his testimony about visiting heaven as told in the book ‘The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven.’ Therefore, we are returning to the publisher the few copies we have in our stores,” it wrote in a statement.

“Christian publishers and retailers should have known better,” wrote the blog Pulpit & Pen, which first released Malarkey’s open letter this week. “They should have had the spiritual discernment, wisdom, compassion, and intestinal fortitude to not sell a book which contains, along with all books like it, deep theological problems.”

“It also doesn’t help that in what is purported to be a ‘true story’ that there are vivid descriptions like ‘The devil’s mouth is funny looking, with only a few moldy teeth. And I’ve never noticed any ears. His body has a human form, with two bony arms and two bony legs. He has no flesh on his body, only some moldy stuff.'”


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  • SteveN

    Even though this guy was a fake, there is still tons of evidence to support an afterlife in that millions of people worldwide have almost identical out of body experiences. Those who seek the truth will find it.

    • davidreilly7

      Please provide one example that cannot be explained by natural causes. For example an out of body experience whereby the person was able to identify something on a shelf out of view to the person near death. I specifically mention that because this test has been carried out several times and every time has failed.

      Of course you will have stories of people who see a bright light or experience visions, but those are easily explained by the release of chemicals by the brain.

      Another interesting point. Why is it that in NDEs Christians see Jesus but Hindus see Vishnu? I suppose the Hindus are hallucinating but the Christians are not?

      • SteveN

        What do you care? Is it offensive to you that people have these experiences? But, it you’re not too old, you’ll probably live to see first hand what the truth is. In the meantime try to find something else to obsess with.

        • davidreilly7

          Absolutely no offense. I was simply responding to your statement “tons of evidence.” I would love to see real incontrovertible evidence of an afterlife.

          I’m 58 so is that too old?

          • Fundisi

            Did you know that most scientists agree the mind is separate from the brain, that it does not depend upon the nerves, synapses and other parts of the brain. If so, why?

            Christians would most positively state the the resurrection of Jesus and many passages from the Holy Bible prove there is an afterlife, but obviously this is not empirical proof, it requires faith based on the existing evidence. Yet, going outside the Bible, there are many facts and evidences all around us that we can examine, ponder and that can lead us to the truth, if we have an open mind. One of my favorites is below:

            The Embryo
            “Suppose that we could speak with an embryo in his mother’s womb and that we would tell him that the embryonic life is only a short one after which follows a real, a long life. What would the embryo answer? The embryo would say just what atheists answer to us, when we speak to them about paradise and hell (another, longer life). The embryo would say that the life in
            the mother’s womb is the only one there is and that everything else is just so much religious foolishness.

            But if the embryo could think about his body, he would say to himself, “Wait, arms are growing on me. Why? I do not need
            them. I cannot even stretch them. So, why do they grow, why do I have them? I am probably growing them for a future stage of my existence, in which I will have to work with them. Legs grow on my body, but I have to keep them bent towards my breast. Why do they grow, why do I have them at all, I cannot possibly use them? I probably have legs for a life in a large world follows my life here in the womb, a life where I will have to walk. Eyes grow in my head, although I am surrounded by perfect darkness and don’t need them at all. So, why am I growing eyes? I probably have eyes because a world with light and colors will follow this one where I will need them.”

            “So, if the embryo could reflect about his own physical
            development, he would know about a life that exists outside his mother’s womb, without this ever having seen it. For now, he would just have to accept that fact by faith because he is not outside the womb, but all the evidence testifies that such a life must exist. The same it is with us. As long as we are young, we have vigor, but we no mind to use it aright. When, with the years, we have finally grown in knowledge and wisdom, the funeral wagon awaits us to take us to the grave. So why was it necessary to grow in a knowledge and wisdom, things which we can no more use in the annihilation of eternity? Why do arms, legs and eyes grow to an embryo? It is for what follows. So it is with us here. We grow here in experience, knowledge and wisdom for all that follows. We are prepared to serve on a higher level which follows death. We cannot prove it because we are still experiencing physical life in the here and now, but all the evidence testifies that such a future life must exist.”

            As I said, none of this is absolute proof of anything, but we have no absolute proof about many things in this life, we have too look at the evidence available, using reason, accept the fact that the evidence leads us to certain conclusions about the matter and it is our trust in that evidence that leads us to believe in things we cannot absolutely prove.

          • davidreilly7

            Well actually most scientists believe that mind and brain are one, but aside from that, I respect your view and once believed as you do.

            Nice analogy to the embryo, but for me the emotions we experience and the thoughts that we think, and the things that we learn make perfect sense within evolution.

            I accept that the resurrection of Christ is a matter of faith.

            I do not accept the “tons of evidence” or “Evidence that Demands a Verdict” of the aplogists as being valid evidence. I used to teach apologetics.

          • Fundisi

            The Resurrection of Christ is a matter of faith, based on evidence. No other fact better demonstrates that idea than nothing less could turn a bunch of cowardly disciples that feared death and ran away from Jesus, but then willingly, without any monetary or material benefits to them, going willingly to their own deaths rather than deny the Lord. If one or two or even a few did, we might write it off on several counts, but for most of them to face being murdered for some false hope, it is beyond reason, an ideology does not overcome fear of death, we are not going to turn from cowardice to embracing death, based on some idea, there had to be a powerful, real event to make that sudden and powerful change.

            These tons of evidence that demand a verdict are not absolutely conclusive, I agree it takes faith to bridge the gap. Yet, the same can be said of evolution, the facts only take the scientists so far, none of them were eyewitnesses, none of them can empirically prove that all life came from nothing and through cosmic accidents and random mutations over time produced the incredibly complex evidence of life we see around us every day. They cannot in the laboratory, first create their own chemicals and lifeless conditions and see evidence of evolution, they too at the end of the day must have faith in their theories and their underlying life model, faith must bridge the gap.

            Tell me, if we are mere stimulus response beings; that is, we must see and experience something in our every day world and respond to it to form any ideas, what was the stimulus for there being a God? No, not motives of men, but what caused them to think there might be a god somewhere? They can see all sorts of things around then that caused them fear and were unexplained, but that does not suggest god.

          • davidreilly7

            I can’t believe that you are putting evolution in the same category as the resurrection.

            Sorry I don’t have time to expand, but I would encourage you to look at the Christian based web site biologos.org.

            Answers in Genesis, Creation Research Institute and the Discovery institute are pseudo science hacks.

          • Fundisi

            Why, they both require faith to close the gap between facts and what can be proven absolutely.

            Answers in Genesis, Creation Research Institute and the Discovery institute are pseudo science hacks.” That is your biased, atheist opinion, not fact.

          • davidreilly7

            What about Francis Collins? He is not an atheist. He has no reason to be biased, but he understands genetics, probably better than anyone in the world.

            What about biologist Ken Miller? Oh he’s a Catholic so maybe he doesn’t count?

          • Fundisi

            I can offer a list of reputable scientists (short list to be sure) that believe the evidence for evolution of the species, between kinds, and the existence of life by cosmic accidents and random mutations through time is impossible. But, you would not accept them because some of them are Christians.

            We are up to our collective rumps with evidence of incredibly complex design from the sub-atomic level to the universe and it is a fact that you cannot have design without a preexisting Designer greater than the things designed. Complex design cannot be produced by accident.

            If random mutations over time were true, we should be up to our collective rumps with billions or more of fully formed, vertical transitional species and we are not, in truth none.

            If God used evolution as a means of creation, it would mean He was experimenting, that He did not absolutely know what would happen and that denies omniscience and the existence of God. If God used evolution, He knowingly introduced death into His creation and that denies God’s Word, rather than being the Author of Life, He was the Author of death. If everything that exists was not perfect from the beginning, it denies His Word and His existence.

            You have free will, even though there is nothing sadder than a person having fallen from the faith, but you may not combine God and Evolution, they are wholly incompatible, as the latter denies God’s Word and the very existence of God believe in one or the other, but do not try and make God the God of evolution.

          • davidreilly7

            Sorry I missed this comment. At most the argument from Design, Kalam, First Cause and Fine Tuning get you to Deism.

            What opened my eyes was reading books by practicing Cosmologists, Physicists, Evolutionary Biologists, Paleontologists and Geneticists.

            Yes there are unsolved mysteries like what happened before the Big Bang or Abiogenesis, but those are being worked on diligently. The God of the Gaps is getting smaller and smaller. In the words of Steven Hawking, science cannot disprove God, but does make God unnecessary.

          • Fundisi

            So sad, Hawking will face an eternity in hell, following a very terrible handicap in life and it is his foolish ego that will destroy him.

          • davidreilly7

            Thank you for this comment. I was going to reply to your comment below on the topic of hell.

            Serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer accepted Christ as his Savior just before he died in prison. Therefore he will spend eternity with the Lord in Heaven. His victims however, most of whom were gay, would not have had a chance to do likewise, so they will spend eternity in hell.

            If hell was true (which I do not believe to be so), I would rather spend eternity in hell with Stephen Hawking and Jeffrey Dahmer’s victims than in heaven with the likes of Jeffrey Dahmer, Oral Roberts, or (eventually) Jim Bakker, Benny Hinn, Ernest Angley, Peter Popoff, Reinhard Bonnke, Pat Robertson, John Hagee, Steven Anderson and Scott Lively.

          • Fundisi

            In the first place, we cannot know if one facing death is making a sincere, heartfelt acceptance of Jesus as their Savior or not. Mere words, mere lip confession, mere mental acceptance, merely wanting to escape hell does not represent true conversion. We cannot know if Dahmer was saved, just because it was reported he accepted Jesus.

            Next, whether it is Dahmer or these other people you mentioned; (a) If any of them were genuinely repentant and saved, would you expect God to exclude them? If so, then almost no one would ever be saved, because it would be merit based, not by grace. (b) Jesus died for sinners, for even His own murderers, not for the righteous. That means He also died for homosexuals, but if they do not gain Heaven, it is because they were not repentant and did not accept God’s Pardon, not because Christ wanted them to be lost, it was/is their free will choice.(c) If any of them were genuinely repentant and saved, in heaven they will be changed into the very image of Christ and more than fit company.

            Last, about hell. God tells us that you will not enjoy the company of anyone, you will be totally alone, in absolute darkness and cut off from God and life, in conscious torment.

          • davidreilly7

            You mentioned random mutations but forgot natural selection. The latter makes all the difference. I know you won’t read it, but the Blind Watchmaker by (that heathen) Richard Dawkins explains the process very well.

          • davidreilly7

            Hmmm then maybe God does not exist. That’s the conclusion I came to.

            But honestly I’m not trying to convert you to atheism. I understand the comfort and emotional uplift in worship, the “fellowship of the saints”, and the hope of eternal life. I believed it. I lived it for 17 years. I was active in evangelism and apologetics.

            So I have no problem with Faith. But I do have a problem when the “evidence” arguments come out.

          • Fundisi

            If God does not exist, then nothing exists. It is absolutely impossible for everything that exists in the universe to have come into existence out of nothing. It is absolutely impossible for us to be overwhelmed by evidences of incredibly complex designed, from the subatomic level to the universe itself and not have a preexisting designer, greater than all the things designed. Complex design simply cannot exist as a result of cosmic accidents or random mutations over time.

            I am not trying to convert you to the Christian faith. That can only be accomplished by the power of the Holy Spirit. As I said and God’s word attests, there is nothing sadder than a person that has tasted the existence of God and his salvation and by listening to the wisdom of men, which is foolishness before God and to have fallen away. For such people, it is impossible for them having once fallen away to come back to the faith, although thank God, that which is impossible for men is possible with God. I pray that you will turn back before it is everlastingly too late.

            All any human being can do is look at the evidence of things and try and conclude what that evidence means. Whether it is divine creation or the theory of evolution, when we get to the end of discoverable facts, both people must apply faith to bridge the gap. What those facts mean are determined by our underlying life model and more often than any of us would like to admit, political forces arrayed against those facts.

            Two more points:
            1. It was asked by an atheist of a Christian man in the early part of the last century that had been tortured for his faith in Christ, how could he prove that God exists. The man of faith said, “just look at the Jews!” As you know, the Bible identifies them as God’s chosen people, the apple of his eye. He has always identified himself with Israel as no other nation or people in human history. Yet, it is undeniable that they are the single most hated people in all of human history. From the first mention of Israel, through the Holocaust and down to current history in the Middle East, we have witnessed truly innumerable attempts to eradicate them as a race of people and as a nation. Even now much of the world is focused on that tiny, insignificant little country in the Middle East. We all know that the Islamic nations are mostly dedicated to the annihilation of every Jew and the complete destruction of Israel; and, most of the nations of the earth are passionately anti-Semitic. That very, extreme hatred of and antagonism towards Israel and the Jews, solely because they are identified as God’s people, is very strong evidence of the existence of God.

            2. Then, we are called to look at the personal experiences of individual Christians, wherein they can offer many proofs of divine intervention in their lives. In my own case, as a very young child I was diagnosed with polio and almost completely paralyzed. As a result of prayer, after only a few days of paralysis in the hospital, I was able to suddenly sit up and with hours was not only discharged, but able to walk out on my own without any lasting impact on my life. Three times I have been hit as a pedestrian by automobiles. Once as a very small child, which I barely remember, then before I was a teenager I was hit by a car and knocked over 15 feet in the air and while I was in a coma and it took me some months to recover, I did fully recover without any handicaps or lasting impact of any kind. As a young man in my 20s, I was hit by an automobile, it rolled completely over me and again,in I was in a coma for a couple of days, but I only suffered a minor fracture to one hand and 150 lacerations to my face. I was back at work in six weeks. In addition I have been over a half dozen auto accidents as a passenger, one so severe that it almost took my mother’s life and left her handicapped for the rest of her life, while I had severe facial injuries and short-term coma, again I had no lasting effects. I had 350 pound transformer fall off the bench and strike me with full force in the chest, I was back to work a few days later. I can add the time that I was kidnapped at gunpoint and rescued within 15 minutes or many serious illnesses. The point is, on many occasions I have been at the point of death and/or facing serious lifetime handicaps, but because of the reality of Jesus in the life of my family and my own life, I am now threescore and 12 and after a recent physical, enjoying amazing physical health.

            Now none of that will convince you of anything, but what I want you to try and think about, considering the evidence of God’s existence in the history of Israel and in my own personal encounters with God, that you may be absolutely wrong and you are risking an everlasting fate that is to horrific to contemplate. If I were you, I would set aside my books and atheist resources and ask God to show Himself you in a real way, at the worst you are left where you are at, at best back in the arms of the Lord.

          • davidreilly7

            On the Jews, you really shouldn’t be using them as an example because you believe that if a Jew dies today without accepting Christ, they will spend eternity in hell. Which is worst, suffering the torments of the holocaust or the torments of hell?

            On your life, you are very fortunate, that is why you are alive today. Only once have I been near death, but I too am thankful for good health. Eating right and exercise certainly help – I compete in powerlifting.

            But what about the child of Christian parents who dies of Leukemia, or the tragic car accident?

            I know the standard Christian answers, but for me it’s very simple: Bad things happen to good people, good things happen to bad people, bad things happen to bad people, good things happen to good people. The world is stochastic. It is exactly what we would expect if there was no God.

            The other thing that persuades me is the multiplicity of mutually exclusive religions and denominations. This is strong evidence that God is made in the the image of man, not the other way around. Just sticking to Christianity we have Evangelicals saying that Catholics are going to hell. Catholics say the same of Protestants. Faith and Works Versus Faith Only, Adult baptism versus Infant sprinkling, Transubstantiation versus Consubstantiation versus Representation, Trinitarian versus Jesus Only, Saturday Sabbath versus Sunday Worship, Anabaptists versus Baptists, Charismatic versus Cessationist, Arminian versus Calvinist, and of course every flavor of eschatology, pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, etc.

            Ask any one, which is correct, and they will all say “mine”.

            There does not exist a single denomination or group within Christendom where some other group does not say they are going to hell. Even Billy Graham is not exempt. Just google “Billy Graham is going to hell”.

          • Fundisi

            I used the Jews solely as proof of God’s existence, I did not speak of all Jews and Israel being saved. Nonetheless, God has said that Israel, as a people will be saved, again not every Jew, but of Israel generally. In Revelations, He speaks of not only of a 144,000, a remnant, that have not defiled their garments and that through them, many more Jews and even Gentiles will find salvation during the Great Tribulation.

            As to my life, there have simply been too many occasions when I should have been dead or severely handicapped to dismiss it as merely being fortunate. In fact, I have never been very good at eating right, or exercising very much and have at times engaged in very destructive habits to my health. So the preservation of my life and my health has been solely a gift of God’s grace, not by anything I have done to merit such preservation.

            As to so many Christians, adults and children, that have suffered great tragedies, even martyrdom, God tells us that the rain falls upon the just and the unjust alike. If he seems to offer special protections to a few along the way, it is for his purposes and his glory, not because the people involved deserved his kindness, certainly I least of all. So, that is why I feel especially blessed and yet cannot venture to say why he has thus extended his mercy to me.

            One of the age old attacks upon the Christian church, is the many divisions, sects, denominations and movements. Such strife and divisions occurred from the very first days of the Christian church, because the enemy of our souls knows how to sow seeds of strife and division; and, because we are all so frail, weak and easily deceived. The cause is because even though most Christians at conversion start their lives walking by the Holy Spirit, they begin to lean unto the flesh so easily and they become easy prey for self-serving deceivers that come in among them. Yet, the true church is the body of Christ and he is their head, all things essential for their salvation they hold in common and are one in spirit. It is to the glory of God that despite the weakness of men, even among devoted Christians, he can and will keep them safe unto the end.

            No man can say with any insight who will go to hell, all we can say is that there is only one way to salvation, it is a gift of God, appropriated by faith and even that faith the gift of God. So, in a general way we can say that according to God’s word all who sincerely come to a place where in they acknowledge the existence of God, sincerely repent – which were means to agree with him that they deserve hell because of their sins and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord and thus salvation as a gift of God, are saved – past tense; and, anyone rejecting that divine truth by their free will choice, absent such repentance, should fear they will be cast out into outer darkness.

          • davidreilly7

            Ok, let me ask you this: Can a Seventh Day Adventist be saved and remain active as a Seventh Day Adventist, rejecting the doctrine of eternal hell and adhering to the Saturday Sabbath? Can a Catholic be saved and remain a practicing Catholic, complete with the prayers to Mary and the Saints, and belief in Works (James) and Faith (Romans)? I’ll assume that you believe in the Trinity, so can a Jesus Only Oneness Pentecostal be saved and remain as Jesus Only? Can a follower of Rob Bell be saved and still reject eternal hell? Can a Christian who believes in Theistic Evolution be saved and remain a Theistic Evolutionist?

            My point is that these are salvific matters, and yet each is equally convinced that they understand the truth. Why is God silent? it’s easy the blame Satan, but I would think that an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and Omnibenevolant God would be able to make the message clear.

          • Fundisi

            Despite everything you have stated, despite all the divisions, denominations, sects, forms of worship and disagreements about certain rituals that your correctly highlight, it is false to suggest God has not made His Truth abundantly clear and that these disagreements, as truly deplorable as they are and how they weaken the witness of the Church in this lost and dying world, that there has not always existed one true Church, one Gospel, one Hope, one baptism and one Lord, which Church the Holy Spirit tells us is made up of the many members of the Body of Christ. These precious souls are not divided in the fundamentals of the faith, wherever they may be and they are known by their love one for the other and love for the dying souls of this wicked world.

            Even that true Church, wherever the members thereof may be scattered, is made up of sinful, weak, frail men that often fail to walk by the spirit, they lean unto their flesh and separate from one another over mostly minor disagreements, none of which cause them to reject the fundamental truths of the faith nor cause them to stop loving one another truly. Besides failing so often to walk by the Spirit, they fail to walk by God’s Word alone and that causes differences between them in forms of worship or over minor doctrinal points. Yet, in Christ they remain one Body., one Church and as to matters relating to salvation they remain in unity.

            It would take too much time here to discuss those groups that use Jesus Name, but deny the Gospel or those cults that likewise draw souls away from the Fundamentals of the Faith. I refuse to condemn anyone or any Church that holds to the fundamentals truths I have mentioned, I can only oppose teachings I believe to be false and which draw men and women away from a pure devotion to Christ. I will also oppose those things which I think deny salvation through Grace alone, through faith alone and that faith in Christ alone.

            As to you, I recall how John The Baptist was used to pave the way for Christ and proclaimed Him as the Savior, none among men as Christ said, being a greater child of God than John. Yet, when in prison, this mighty prophet having taken his eyes off of Christ during his trials, sent his disciples to ask Jesus if He really was the Christ. How could he doubt? John was filled by the Spirit from birth and was devoted to announcing the coming of the Lord. You, like Him looked around at all the things being taught against Him, you leaned to your own understanding, took your eyes off Christ and fell from the faith.

            Again, like Peter who was the Apostle the Lord highly commended, took His eyes off of who Christ was for a moment and Jesus was forced to call him a child of Satan. Later He even denied the Lord when He was out of his sight, being tried and he wept bitterly at his failure. You too took you eyes off of Christ and it brought you to the terrible place wherein you now stand. When we look at the world, when we entertain their arguments, when we lean to the flesh, in our own frail reasoning, our eyes are off Christ and like Peter who walked on the water, but the minute our eyes are off Christ, we begin to sink and drown. No my friend, there is no divisions, not any lack of the Truth among the true members of the Body of Christ, even if the many divisions make it appear to be so, because Jesus has made them one in the faith.

          • alnga

            To a Believer the proof that becomes the most acceptable is God’s Word. Now you have a problem with that so do some more research, but a believer needs only to read what God says about Himself to believe.

          • davidreilly7

            You see I agree with you in that you are making a faith statement.

          • Alaric Khan

            Evidence like? No intermediate lifeforms in the fossil record? Evidence like, 1500 year-old man-made artifacts encased in ‘400 million year-old coal deposits’? Evidence like, 10,000 year-old carbon-dated frogs that died in the Mt. St. Helens eruption? Macro universe mathematical relationships being exactly the same as micro-universe math relationships explained by ‘chance’, how? There can be no ‘exceptions’ with the science method so the hypothesis must be questioned. Unless, of course, you want to believe by ‘faith’.

          • davidreilly7

            Sorry I’m not doing this debate. Let me know when you get your Nobel Prize for disproving Evolution.

          • alnga

            and your proof to this lies where? may I suggest you spend a little more time in your research. C S Lewis did and it all turned around for he found Jesus in his research..

          • davidreilly7

            Gosh it has been 20 years since I read Mere Christianity. I used that book in my apologetics class along with Josh McDowell’s Evidence that Demands a Verdicts.

            I respect C.S. Lewis’ intellect and powerful writing style, but do not find his arguments compelling. Otherwise I would still be a Christian.

          • davidreilly7

            I will respond to your other points when I get a chance. Thanks for the conversation.

          • SteveN

            I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

            Galileo Galilei

            Yes, you will live to see what was procified.

          • alnga

            My response is the only response that should matter to a Christian and at the same time be considered foolish by the lost. That Response is simply: Because Jesus, as god, said so. He told that man next to him on his Cross that this day you shall be with me in paradise.. Proof enough for me, even though there many more.

        • Steve Nobother

          You state that there’s tons of evidence; where is this evidence?

          • SteveN

            Read up dude.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Well, David, as a Christian, I pretty much disagree with everything else you say on this story, but, in this particular posting regarding what Christians see during NDEs versus Hindus, etc, there is good conservative Christian support for your assertion found here: http://www.equip.org/article/heaven-real-heaven-real-really/#christian-books-4

        So, I finally found something to agree with an a-theist on! 🙂 It should be noted that there is a tremendous difference between near-death and absolute death, so that is one huge reason that no one, theist or a-theist, should take NDEs too seriously. (The Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth is a far different situation – one that all should seriously consider with regard to a minimal facts argument in favor.)

        I wouldn’t lean too hard on the picture on a shelf aspect to that particular study, however: even most a-theists agree that it was not done with good scientific controls, and besides, if I am floating over my body in an OR, just why am I going to pay attention to what’s on a shelf (assuming I can even see it, another problem with the study) when it’s my body that interests me the most? Other than that, I do agree with this particular point you make, while disagreeing with a-theism at large. God bless you, David!

        • davidreilly7

          Thanks for the kind words, interesting link and comments!

      • Candace

        It’s overreaching to elevate himself as judge Over the experiences of other people. since he admits he lied who can take his word about the veracity of someone else’s experience. He clearly continues to grapple with overstepping his boundaries where subjecting other’s to his ideas of truth and Biblical standards are concerned. he doesn’t have a right to call everyone else a liar, just because he was involved in lying on the topic. I certainly can understand why people who have never had a reason or opportunity to connect with God might be highly skepticalto believe in God for themselves. And I can also understand why people (believers or not) might also be skeptical to believe out of the body NDEs. I can tell youthat Alex’s description of the devil having moldy body it looks like a human does not match any Bible verse that I’m aware of. However, other peoples accounts do stay within the boundaries of biblical Scripture.and in reference to his own writings, I would agree that any person who is familiar with Biblical accounts should have been wary of his contrary description.

        with that said,I would like to go on recordfor the sake of this topic sharing my own personal experience. At age 17 I had a near death experience. it was very simple. I had a tonsillectomy. The surgery happened at 7 or so in the morning. the surgeon decided at the time of the operation to close the incisions by cortorizing (sealing with hot iron tool) instead of putting in stitches. One of the tonsil incisionswas not closed properlyand unbenounced to everyone I was hemorrhaginginto my esophagus and stomach. At lunch the Hospital mistakenly brought mea hamburger instead of jello or liquid. I didn’t eat it right away of course since I was waiting for them to bring me something I was allowed to have.around mid afternoon my mother and younger sister decided to leave to get something to eat for themselvessince I had falling asleep. when I awoke I was alone & feeling ravenously hungry. the hamburger still sitting there and my mother not there too intervene, I bravely picked up the hamburger took a bite and swallowed it to the side of my throat that was tickling ( I had complained several times throughout the day since waking up in recovery to no avail. the busy nurse on dismissed my complain without actually checkingme even though I clearly saId felt like something was stringing down my throat). as soon as I had swallowed the hamburger bite, I realized it was a bad decision. My throat was clear of the tickling string. now it was full a warm blood. It was coming out of my mouth so fast I could hardly catch it in the tiny kidney shaped spitbowl they had given me. again and again I press the buzzer but no nurse came. I knew I was going to have to climb out of bed to get help.I pushed myself to the edge of the bed and tried to stand on my feet. it was no use I was too weak. I realized I would collapse immediately.it did not occur to me that I have been bleeding all day. But somehow I knewI felt my lifeleaving my body. I knew I was dying even though I didn’t know why.I remember having this panoramic vision of a sunset. and it seemed like my life wasbeing played rapidly before my mind or my consciousness. I remember thinking this is it.I’m 17 and this is as far as I made it.it occurred to me that I was never going to get the chance to be married to have children. and in that split second, I considered letting myself collapse on the floor and see if I had enough strength in my arms to pull myself doorway.at that pointa figure appeared in the doorway. My vision was becoming very blurrybut it seemed like a doctor in a white coat.my hearing was also distorted because his voice sounded like he was yelling down and long pipe or barrel, “are you okay?”. theni tunnel effectstarted happening to my vision. Everything just closed inand I could no longer see annI felt my body flop backwards on the bed.

        the next thing I knew I was looking down on my doctor andsome nurses working on my body which was lying on the bed.the blankets had been stripped away from me.I seemed to be hovering right at the ceiling.and I was in no pain at all. Also did not feel any fear.I could see everything that was going on and I could hear everything the doctor was saying to the nurses. One nurse hung Abag of yellowish clear liquid andconnected it to my IV line. the doctorwas rattling off Medical Commands to give me injections which she immediately administered to my IV line. there was a crash cart on the same side of the bed is the doctor stood. I could not make out any blips for heartbeat or blood pressure. He rubbed two paddles together and said “Clear!” The nurses stepped back at the same time, pulling their hands back. he put the paddles on my body and my body immediately made a single jolt and thenI saw my bodycontrack andalmost set upas a huge fountain projectilebloodvomited out and across the beddancing one of the nurses and this floor all the way to the wall. in my body fell ak back limp and lifeless onto the bed., leaving the one nurse standing near my feet covered in my blood.

        at that moment I heard the doctor say loudly,get her to the OR stat. I remember being amazed at the amount of blood that came out of my stomach. everything went black again and I was sucked back into my body. The next time I regained consciousness I was in surgical recovery unit. When they took me back up to my floor, and a nurse was getting me checked into my room and updating my chart with my vital signs, she noticed I was carefully looking around the floor in the bed covers.well I was looking for any sign evidence of the blood because I immediately remembered what I saw. When she noticed me searching the room with my eyes, she said is something the matter?looked up at the ceiling and thought a minute before responding, is this the same room I was in before?she said it was the same room. And without thinking I asked,what happened to all the blood? she looked vary astonished and said, ” How did you know about that!”. at the moment I really couldn’t quite put words together to explain it, I just looked up at the ceiling where I had seen everything happen. she looked a little unnerved and hurried on about her business.

        after that happened to me, I kept wanting to tell someone.I was really an able to talk about it. Because I didn’t really know what had happened.at that age I had never heardof people having out of the body experiences or near death experiences. Even afterI was grown and came across the topic, I felt very reluctant to share my experience because I didn’t want people to think it was weird that I might have died. a: the doctor follow up visit, I learned that while trying to revive me they did not give me whole blood. I was given hemoglobin, which is a yellowish clear liquid. And I had him all day long from the improperly closed tonsil incision. I had lost so much blood that I literally bled to death. But the doctor decided to avoid potential reactions to being given someone else’s blood and put me on heavy doses of iron tablets until my blood rebounded. Have you can say I have never forgotten the experience. So I can attest to out of the body experiences as being real. that helps clarify and shed light on a matter for those who have not experienced and a near death experience. Not that it’s something you should ask for, but rest assured it is real. I would say this to people who doubt the testimonies of those who share their real life experience.have you been to the moon? Course you have not. Yet you believe the testimony of those who have.you have to christianity in order to grasp that angels, heaven , God are real.

        • davidreilly7

          Thank you for sharing your NDE experience and for making that (what appears to be) your first Disqus post.

          I have no question as to the reality of experiences like this (or the reality of a conversion experience).

          What is the topic of debate is does the evidence point to natural causes like chemicals released by the brain or oxygen deprivation, or is it something supernatural ie proof of a soul and an afterlife.

          I respect that you are convinced of the latter, but I don’t see anything in your story that could not be explained by natural causes.

          I can’t relate to your NDE experience but on the topic of conversion, I had a very powerful and emotional conversion, crying like I had never cried before and feelings of joy that surpassed anything I had ever felt before. Along with speaking in tongues. But now that I look back and see the worship leader’s use of just the right music, getting the crowd in just the right mood, expectations were high, and you are set for mass hypnosis. That’s all it was. Nothing more. But it took me 30 years to figure that out.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Yes, you had a subjective emotional experience and thought it was a conversion. Sadly, this is all too common in the post-modern feminized church these days: touchy-feely, pray until God answers my prayers, sing lots of 7-11 songs, God is my waiter not my Boss, the purpose of the Christian life is to be happy and have my feelings met, narcissistic kind of thinking. All too common, yet totally un-Biblical, not to mention philosophically unreliable. Pentecostalism only ramps up the pressure on these false goals and motivations.

            Your name is very familiar, David, so you are probably already aware of this site (https://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2013/07/21/clear-thinking-about-rachael-slicks-departure-from-christianity/) but it takes a rather hard line view against the kind of subjective religion of post-modern “christianity,” while remaining faithful to Christian propositional truths. (Not that 7-11 songs aren’t fun and all. :-)) God bless you, David!

          • davidreilly7

            Thanks for the reply and link. I have seen those survey questions before but haven’t visited the site. Are you the author?

            I do respect the intellect of WLC, but I just don’t buy the arguments. I think he does more to reassure believers than convince unbelievers.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            No, Wintery Knight is some mysterious sort of fellow. 🙂 I am mysterious, too, but not as energetic as he is. (I’m at least 20 years older though.) But, I like the site, because it focuses primarily on evidential apologetics, and applies it to some everyday stuff. There is also good engagement there, in the comment section, although some of us can be a bit snarky. (I plead guilty, OK?!? :-)) What’s nice is that we get some pretty good hard-core a-theists on there too from time to time, and that livens it up.

            I was late in the game in coming to know who WLC is – I just saw his 2009 debate with Christopher Hitchens for the first time last year, or maybe the year before. I have always tended to be more conversational, and less formal, in my apologetics approach, but I must say that I have come to appreciate WLC over the past year or so. (I am VERY envious of his politeness, needless to say!) Consequently, I have added Kalam and some versions of the Moral Argument and the Argument from Evil to my toolset. I think I have a slight edge over WLC on Kalam – being an engineer, I can address the absurdity of denying premise 1 from that standpoint.

            Regardless, we would LOVE to have a skeptic in there, particularly one as crazy nice as you are (you might need to develop some snark though – fair warning :-)), so come join us sometime. He sends out his blogs roughly 2-3 times a day and you can have them sent to your email to keep up. It’s been fun talking with you, David – God bless, and I hope to see you around the various sites!

          • davidreilly7

            Thanks for the kind words! Take care. I’m sure we’ll talk again. I’m an engineer as well (EE by degree but now an applied statistician).

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Awesome, David – my youngest is a EE, and I did a half a master’s in EE a few years ago, on a lark. I liked the advanced filters class a lot – brought me up to speed on Mathematica. (My fave a-theist in my BC days was Bertrand Russell, co-author of Principia Mathematica.) My other degrees are in General Engineering, two in ISE, and I have a fun master’s degree in Math. I was going for a PhD in applied math, but then switched back over to engineering and did it in engineering instead. (It was faster.) I also did some environmental work around the world using some applied stats techniques, SPRT’s and such. Are you in the commercial field or government or academia? Blessings!

          • davidreilly7

            I am CTO (and founder) at a small statistical software company. A lot of our development is in a tool similar to Matlab and where we need the speed, in C. We also do stochastic global optimization tools such as Genetic Algorithms and Simulated Annealing.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Amazing, David! My PhD dissertation was on (non-stochastic) geometric / posynomial programming, a global optimization method. (Can’t tell you much more or you will figure out who I am.) But, I did do a little adjunct professoring and sponsored a master’s thesis that involved simulated annealing. Lots in common – plus you are an extremist too: power lifting. 🙂 My semi-extreme sport is open water marathon swimming. One thing is for sure: we would be able to talk “technical.” 🙂 Blessings to you!

          • davidreilly7

            Very interesting! No problem on wanting to remain anonymous. David is a pseudonym.

            I had to google posynomial optimization! I take that it is a class of Convex optimization. Our client applications are often non-smooth hence (I think) GA and SA are better suited. We are also looking at Ant Colony.

            Good for you on the marathon swimming! Is that 10k?

            Prior to Powerlifting, I was a runner, competitive but not really fast (PB for 5k was 21:45, age group 50-54). I also did combined bench press for reps and 5k at the Arnold Sport Festival in Columbus, and then got into PL. You can’t run competitively and be a powerlifter.

            Take care

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Yeah, the power lifting is amazing! I worked with a guy 20 years ago who was already well into his 50’s (close to your age) and he was winning some pretty amazing competitions. Dude was a beast! Be careful though – that sport can be a bit dangerous, injury-wise anyway. Very impressive, David!

            Well, with all of the different conditions (current, wind, chop, etc), it is hard to specify just what a marathon swim distance is, but 10k is a good baseline. It’s a 4-to-1 ratio between running and swimming so, 10k swimming is roughly 25 miles running, pretty close. But, if you are swimming against a strong current, it could be much less distance. I like to think of about 3 hours or a bit more to be the low end of marathon. I have done some 10 mile competitions and did pretty well, especially for my age, but I prefer the solo swims, particularly firsts (swims that have not been attempted). I have done some 9+ and 10 hour swims, but also do some backstroke-only swims and one butterfly-only swim. It’s just really beautiful out in the open water, that’s really why I like it.

          • davidreilly7

            Your Marathon swimming is awesome! I knew that there was a large difference in effort level, but did not realize that it is 4:1.

            If you don’t mind me asking, when and how did you become a Christian? Are you in the Calvinist camp? you mentioned Bertrand Russell and I saw on another post Sagan, so I take it that you were an informed atheist who you converted.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Yes, David, the 4:1 can be applied to time (for equivalent distance) or distance (for equivalent time). It is actually a bit more than 4:1, depending on the method used. World record times for the same distance is one way. That is based on freestyle – other strokes would be an even greater ratio.

            No, I am definitely NOT Calvinist (hard-core Calvinism creeps me out), although I do appreciate some of their preacher-theologians from the past. I am more Molinist – I tend to prize logical consistency with Biblical exegesis. What about you before you de-converted? I was 42, and the main reasons I converted were twofold: I had an intuitive understanding of Kalam, and could no longer deny that the evidence weighed in the direction of theism. Frankly, I find the New A-theist attack on premise 1 to be more than absurd, especially for us technical types.

            Also, I knew that I could not objectively ground morality if I was going to hang onto naturalistic a-theism. I could come up with rules, yes, but I knew deep down that those were opinions without a ground for them. I was immensely successful (making my first million by 40, those degrees, family, sports, etc, retired at 46) in a worldly sense, but knew deep down that it mattered not one whit under naturalistic a-theism. So, I was miserable in a spiritual sense, if you will. I think Russell’s position that life has no meaning without a God held sway. I was pretty solid into a-theism, but not publicly debating or anything.

            I couldn’t answer the most basic questions about life: why is there something rather than nothing, how did I get here and what is my purpose, are there objective moral values and duties and truths, and if not, why am I asserting them so vociferously? 🙂 What about the problem of evil (which both worldviews must address), and the problem of good (a big problem for a-theism)?

            I was very anti-Bible and anti-church, so needless to say, I was nowhere near those “evil” things when I converted to Christianity. I was alone in my son’s room (he was away at college) about to watch some Sunday morning NFL pre-game. 🙂 I was an evidentialist – so, like you, I was looking for stuff, certainly empirical evidence would do too. I was searching for truth – objective truth like a good engineer, and what I found in Christianity seems to describe the world much better than what I had under naturalistic a-theism. More importantly, Christianity, for me, grounded moral duties much better.

            It also allows me to assert objective morality without feeling like I am stealing from a God that I didn’t believe in. Yes, it also lent meaning. So, it was a combination of reasons that all seemed to fit together like a puzzle for me. Obviously, you have the reverse story to tell, which I would love to hear as well. And, is it any way similar to some of the de-conversion testimonies (e.g., Rachael Slick) on the WK website? Bless you, David!

          • davidreilly7

            Thanks for sharing. Seems like Molinism is growing in popularity thanks to WLC. Back when I did my Masters of Theological Studies (late 80’s) that wasn’t even discussed. It was Calvinism vs Arminianism. I was in the latter.

            Lots to talk about but have to come back later. sorry.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Yes, indeed! I bounced back and forth before I heard about the brilliant Jesuit theologian Luis de Molina, but I never could have landed on hard-core Calvinism. And, even with Molinism, I still lean Arminian. But, I cannot deny the brilliance of the Reformed theologians. Where did you do your TS degree?

          • davidreilly7

            Ontario Theological Seminary now Tyndale in Toronto.

          • davidreilly7

            Thanks again for sharing your testimony.

            I was curious did you become a millionaire through investments, entrepeneurship or inheritance? No problem if you don’t want to discuss. I was just curious.

            I guess I’m a millionaire as well if you take the value of the business into account but the money just goes back into R&D!

            When I became a born again Christian I was nominally one in that I was raised as a Lutheran. I went to a Jesus Festival in Carlisle Ontario in 1978 and was radically converted. In the early eighties I led the evangelism program at our church, taught apologetics, and (briefly) had a radio program on Trans World Radio in Gaum. Then I went to an evangelical seminary and did an MTS. After that continued on in lay ministry, while working as an engineer.

            Seeds of doubt started with the question of eternal hell. If God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnibenevolent then why does he allow 1.6 souls per second to spend eternity in hell (using a conservative 10% born again and a global death rate of 1.8 per hour ). Billions upon billions in hell and a fraction of that in heaven? That eated away at me.

            1997 I left the church and immersed myself in work, travelling the world, doing consulting. Considered myself agnostic.

            Three years ago started reading Harris, Hitchens, Dawkins, Stenger, Krauss, Barker, Loftus, Coyne, etc and in summary, this is what
            convinced me to atheism:

            The pro

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Investments and then entrepreneurship. Both done by playing good defense – frugality. My motivation was that I did not desire to be a slave to any boss, yet now I am a willing slave to the Boss, and spending a high percentage of that money on charities while dressing in rags – and swimsuits. 🙂 My eldest son is following the same path and intends to be able to retire at 35. Arguably more frugal than I am. 🙂 My wife is also a millionaire and did it totally through investments, hard work, and frugality. Just found out that she has saved up a boatload of money that I didn’t even know about, and she wants me to invest it for her.

            Thank you for the awesome testimony, David – very impressive, concise, and very humbly delivered! What a welcome change to be interacting with a positive a-theist, who presents evidence for the “No God” hypothesis and doesn’t whine “I lack unbelief, I share no burden!” 🙂 Obviously, your de-conversion is well thought out and, IMO, should be posted on the WK blog. I really want it over there – he has some other de-conversion testimonies, but, IMO, yours is the best by far! Please be thinking about how we can move this over there, OK? Let me know what I can do, because your story needs to be widely shared, IMO.

            Can I just prod a bit, without appearing overly argumentative? (That is a rhetorical question, answerable only by an Omniscient Being. :-))

            On the problem of evil, what is your view on this argument:

            P1. If there is no God, objective moral values and duties do not exist.
            P2. Evil exists.
            C1. Therefore, objective moral values and duties exist.
            C2. Therefore, God exists.

            Also, when you say that the world is stochastic (in terms of the problem of evil), is it really tremendously stochastic or only so under a naturalistic presupposition? For instance, when I think of Kalam premise 1, if that were not true then wouldn’t we expect flying spaghetti monsters and such to appear in our living rooms out of thin air on a fairly regular basis? I guess what I am saying is that when I was on the other side of the fence, I actually thought that because something could happen, it must eventually happen. (A mathematician actually used that argument in the 80’s for why nuclear war was inevitable.) In other words, I actually believed that given enough time and chance, a brand new mercedes-benz very well could and would appear in my empty garage. On this side of the fence, I find this sort of reasoning beyond absurd.

            So, in reply to your statement “The world is stochastic, it is what you would expect if there was no God,” I would say “The world is not Kalam negative-Premise 1 stochastic, it is what you would expect if there was a God.”

            Speaking of the problem of evil, where are you on abortion?

            I agree 100% with you that Kalam, if true, supports deism. More is needed to support theism, in general, and Christian theism in particular. Deism really is not that much different from a-theism, if the deity is unknowable, as is apparently true in Islam. Of course, once we state that the deity is unknowable, we know something about it. 🙂 Also, I am really glad that, as an engineer, you are not going after premise 1 of Kalam. I do think that the cosmological evidence (redshifting, cosmic microwave background radiation, hydrogen / helium abundance, positive average inflation, BGV Theorem, etc) provides tremendous support for premise 2, and many a-theistic cosmologists are now grudgingly agreeing there. There is a metaphysical extension following Kalam that argues that a Cause which chooses to create (and which creates persons or the ability for persons to develop) must be personal. No proof is involved, but it would move the position from deism to theism.

            Bottom line is this: it is good to see that you accept the plausibility of deism. Neither the God Hypothesis nor the No God Hypothesis can be proven (as far as we know), so plausibility seems to be the game. What I am saying is that while you are a positive evidence a-theist, you are refreshingly open to evidence. (Yes, I know you are not alone, but do you know how many self-refuting “There are no objective moral values and Christians are evil” a-theists I run into?!? :-))

            Evolution is a fact? Now, I think that is more than a bit strong for something that no one has even seen occur, if you mean macro-evolution. (I see gravity every day, and the older I get, the more I see it. :-() Not to mention that many naturalists at least admit the glaring holes in this theory: lack of transitionary forms (Darwin’s big concern that he thought would be cleared up by a bigger fossil record, but hasn’t), pre-Cambrian explosion of life, specified information and complexity, protein sequencing problem, etc.

            The problem of Hell is both vexing and a sad apologetic. Surely its existence, if we live in an objectively moral universe, should be expected and even, in some cases (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc), desired. Were Hell not to exist, we would be even more inclined to behave like savages, no? (I sure did when I didn’t believe in it! :-() The question of who goes there (don’t forget to remove the little ones – infant mortality is high in some regions of the world, and the doctrine of infant salvation is pretty sound. I am counting on meeting my sister who died at 18 months while I was in the womb.) is best answered by the former a-theist CS Lewis, IMO, when he writes:

            “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.”

            This quote would be mostly consistent with the Molinist (and Biblical) view of God’s sovereignty over the times and places of our existence so that, if we seek, the resources (time, Gospel, missionaries, visions, dreams – both of which are reported in Middle East countries, etc) will be made available for us to eventually find.

            Now, just WHO is the rambler here?!? 🙂 We gotta figure out a way to move this discussion over to WK – he would LOVE it, and we would get a ton of a-theists weighing in! Blessings, David!

          • davidreilly7

            Glad that your family is following in the footsteps of their father!

            I’m going to have to get back to you the other topics. Lots to discuss!

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Take your time – I wrote a novel! I’m not going anywhere, but I am learning a ton from this interaction, so just relax and fill in as you can, OK? And we gotta get this over to the WK site – it is too good to pass up. Thanks for all your great replies, David!

          • davidreilly7

            WGC, I meant to come back to ask about your applied stats stuff. You mentioned SPRT’s and that’s something that we (lightly) use for sequential acceptance testing in Quality Control. Did you use Design of Experiments and Statistical Process Control or get into Six Sigma? I’m guessing that based on your ISE degrees. Our world is getting smaller.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Hey David, you know, I touched on those other areas when I was consulting with a big manufacturer, but one of the guys that was heavy into the NCOSE (if I have that right?) committees told me that Six-Sigma was a boondoggle. (This was 20 years ago and may have changed.) He was not impressed by it, and had the intellectual firepower for me to listen to him, so I stayed away from it. (I taught SPC as an adjunct prof. and SPRT also technically falls under SPC, if my memory is correct?) DOE is unquestionably sound, but for some reason, I didn’t use it. I don’t know why. I kept looking for ways to use it, but these other techniques fit better.

            I designed our SPRTs (especially the binomial and hypergeometric ones) to have a fixed upper limit (based on the equivalent binomial or hypergeometric fixed sampling plan parameters). We were applying those techniques primarily to environmental sampling at hundreds of sites around the world, and the ground truthing verified our methods real well.

            I also did some SPRTs overlayed by statistical resampling accelerators for risky space environments. (I was a spacecraft designer, but got pulled into other areas, like above.) This appeared to be cutting-edge stuff (IMO, not being prideful) and seemed to be pushing the theoretical limits somewhat. I am not sure about any proven theories on this, but it WAS very efficient. 🙂 I did some fractal work in the same area. Not sure if any of this helps. Bottom line: SPRT’s can be used for a LOT more than traditional QC situations. If necessary, I can link to the public documents on this, if any, or email my copies. But, then I will be outted to you anyway. There is a way to do this so that only you and I can see it. (Post, followed by immediate edit.)

          • davidreilly7
          • davidreilly7

            I would say Six Sigma can be controversial but not a boondoggle if applied correctly. After all is is simply an organized approach to process improvement using statistical and graphical tools. But I’m biased on this since I was involved with the people who invented it!

          • davidreilly7

            Cool stuff here. Also very interesting that you taught SPC. We have done a lot in the area of SPC for non-normal data and plan to get into SPC for autocorrelated data typical in Process Industries.

          • davidreilly7

            SPRT + Bootstrap = super interesting!

            I have always gone the route of Monte Carlo or Bootstrap whenever possible for complex problems. Computing power is so cheap and the methods work.

          • Candace

            Well actally you can only choose to believe that natural causes explain it but you have no proof that it is explainable by natural causes. You simply chosen to believe that over the supernatural. But then you are taking for granted that having a soul Or spirit is not natural.in the context of natural being physical matter, then it is supernatural.but in the context of being a normal partwho and what you are, as well as howthese things work, then it is actually natural.I’m respect that People difficulty accepting near death experiences because they haven’t experienced one. Normally when people experience one they don’t survive it. So, we are in fact fortunate to gain understanding through the experiences of those who have step to cross that threshold momentarily.

          • davidreilly7

            Hi Candace,

            Thanks for your comment. By definition I would expect a Christian to accept the supernatural.

            But if you step outside the box and look back, it’s not very convincing. Sorry.

            There is not a shred of reliable evidence for the supernatural. By reliable I am not talking about anecdotal experience or what the Bible says, but the results of statistically valid proper controlled randomized designed experiment. These experiments have been done on prayer and the outcomes are, as expected, no different than what one would see by chance.

            But I am happy for those who have faith. It provides comfort and hope.

          • Candace

            I think some believe for the sake of comfort and hope as you suggest. But some of us have had actual supernatural encounters. I have had 7 divine encounters personally and have recieved 3 divine healings . These experiences started at age 11. The second was at age 18 so all but one was as an adult. And I wasnt professing a religion to start with. I was just seeking God. I see you have decided to leave your faith – and I guess its because you fell into that catagory of people who went through all the religious roads in the unproven belief that there is a supernatural and all. But you never connected through the carnal efforts of holding a position and routines and book learnign. And I can understand why that has brought you to your conclusion. And I see that you now derive an EQUALLY UNPROVEN comfort and belief that God doesnt exitst and there is no hell. You clearly express comfort in the ability to writeoff those 1.6 billion souls in your current religious views. I can understand how that gives you a sense of relief .

            What I wonder is have you ever asked God directly ” God where are you ? are you real? ” I wonder if you would do that with the sincere heartfelt desire to know the truth. I cant help but believe that if you approached God instead of religion and theology – the spiritual truth would open to you and you would see its not an intellectual accomplishment to undertake in Theology classes. Religion has intellectualized God. Just call out to God personally is what I am saying.

            Anyway if you do, keep your heart open and dismiss your doubts. keep saying each day. God I want to know if you are real and what you are really about. I am still waiting to hear from you.

            Then you will discover that real faith in God is not a blind hope based on book studies – it’s a tangible experience that transcends the carnal and natural aspects of life. Its an INCREDIBLE experience.

            I hope you will call out to God.

          • davidreilly7

            Thanks for the reply.

            “I hope you will call out to God.”

            Ok, which one? Allah, Zeus, Jehovah, Jesus, Krishna, Buddha?

            You don’t have to answer, because obviously your answer will be the God of the Bible that you worship. But someone from a different religion who has equally powerful personal experiences and they will tell me to worship their God. Ah but you say those have to be counterfeit experiences, they can’t be real because they aren’t with my God. Yet to them those experiences are very very real and meaningful.

            So here is my problem, if God is the author of communication, why isn’t the message so clear that no one will misinterpret. Why do we have thousands of denominations and religions?

            Of the thousands which one is true? I know, the one you follow.

          • Candace

            in your reply you also mentioned you had what you call a conversion experience. I am Not sure what you Mean by that. Are you describing being born again And baptized in the Holy Spirit? Why did you cry? Why did you feel joy? Did you speak in genuine tongues? Did the tongues come out without your control from the midst of your being? Or were you told to keep repeating words until you became tongue-tied? If it was the former (as the Holy Spirit gabe utterance) then did you continue discipleship with other born again believers through the scriptures and the leading of the Spirit? Or did you keep to your former lifestyle? 30 years is a long time to walk away from God. Perhaps you need to turn back and ask God to show you His truth. I hope you find your way through this darkness of doubt.

          • Candace

            in your reply you also mentioned you had what you call a conversion experience. I am Not sure what you Mean by that. Are you describing being born again And baptized in the Holy Spirit? Why did you cry? Why did you feel joy? Did you speak in genuine tongues? Did the tongues come out without your control from the midst of your being? Or were you told to keep repeating words until you became tongue-tied? If it was the former (as the Holy Spirit gabe utterance) then did you continue discipleship with other born again believers through the scriptures and the leading of the Spirit? Or did you keep to your former lifestyle? 30 years is a long time to walk away from God. Perhaps you need to turn back and ask God to show you His truth. I hope you find your way through this darkness of doubt.

          • davidreilly7

            Will have to get back to you later on this. Thanks for the questions.

          • davidreilly7

            >Are you describing being born again And baptized in the Holy Spirit?

            Yes

            >Why did you cry? Why did you feel joy?

            At the time I thought it was the Lord working, but now I am convinced that it was simply the mood of the moment, worship songs arranged for an emotional high, the expectation raised by the preacher. It’s a well known effect of mass hypnosis.

            > Did you speak in genuine tongues? Did the tongues come out without your control from the midst of your being?

            Yes, Yes. But I can still speak in tongues and I’m an atheist, so it is clearly a natural phenomenon.

            > Or were you told to keep repeating words until you became tongue-tied?

            No

            > If it was the former (as the Holy Spirit gabe utterance) then did you continue discipleship with other born again believers through the scriptures and the leading of the Spirit? Or did you keep to your former lifestyle?

            I was radically converted. Threw out all of my albums (which I sorely regret today). Stopped smoking pot (that was a good thing). Fellowshipped with other Christians regularly (too regularly I failed that semester in University because of the amount of time I was in Bible studies and prayer meetings instead of doing my Engineering studies).

            After a few years I led the evangelism program at the church and taught apologetics. Went on to do a Masters of Theological Studies at an evangelical Bible believing seminary in Toronto.

            > 30 years is a long time to walk away from God. Perhaps you need to turn back and ask God to show you His truth. I hope you find your way through this darkness of doubt.

            Thanks for the concern, but that ship has sailed long ago. I grow confident daily as an unbeliever. I no longer carry the shackle of belief that 1.6 souls per second are going to spend an eternity in hell. I have a personal relationship with reality.

    • Fundisi

      I spoke against this from the very beginning, it is easy to dismiss most of these stories, if they are in Heaven and their encounter not with or all about Jesus, it cannot be heaven, it must be a lie.

  • Lisa Ladonski

    Are we going to talk about the fact that his last name is Malarkey??

    • Tux

      “and co-written with his father” – put him up to it. Good on him for coming clean though. A real lack of discernment exists among the church today.

      • alnga

        And if in fact a best seller on any level , imagine the ideas folks actually entertain that are largely not Biblical.

  • Steve S

    The Bible is clear that the hope of the Christian is the 2nd
    Coming of Jesus and the resurrection, not some mystical out of body experience. “The dead do not praise the LORD, nor any who go down into silence.” Psalm 115:17. Those
    who rely on spiritual experiences or miracles rather than the plain words of
    scripture will be deceived according to 2 Thessalonians chapter 2.

  • Frank

    This is just sad.

  • Rhonda Renee Albrecht

    I think that Alex truly did have a NDE, and that he actually did go to Heaven. However, he is doing the right thing, because the focus is going on him, rather than the Bible, and Jesus. That’s where it is going wrong. That’s why he wants the book pulled.

    • Mary Kemper-Biemer

      Forget then that he even admitted after reading the Bible that his story was unbiblical, right ?. Because that doesn’t matter right? What ever happened to the 66 books of the Bible are the inspired word of God, the plumline?

      • Rhonda Renee Albrecht

        So, are you the ultimate, infallible authority on the Bible? I thought God was. All I’m saying is that Alex did have a NDE, but realized that people are looking to him as a prophet, and he’s saying no, he’s not, by recanting his story, because THAT is unbiblical. He doesn’t want the focus on him, because people believe that he has an insider track to God’s ear, etc., which he doesn’t. He wants the focus put on God, where it belongs.

  • Mary Taylor

    There are too many passages in the Bible that speak against this sort of thing.

  • lawngren

    Good for Alex. And for his mother. The most important thing in the world is truth.

  • Karen Taylor

    is this the same book as the heaven is for real story?? never heard of this particular one.