Superintendent Stands Firm After Atheist Group Complains About Principal Quoting Bible Over Intercom

School Bible pdWHITE OAK, Texas — The superintendent of a school district in Texas is standing firm after a prominent atheist activist group sent a letter of complaint regarding a high school principal who allegedly quotes Scripture over the intercom during the morning announcements.

According to KETK-TV, an anonymous student at White Oak High School contacted atheist blogger Hemant Mehta after recording Principal Dan Noll quoting from the Bible during the announcements. The practice reportedly goes back to the 1970’s according to former alumni.

“He who leads upright along an evil path will fall into his own trap, but the blameless will receive a good inheritance,” Noll read from the book of Proverbs in one of the announcements. “The Lord detests the sacrifice of the wicked, but the prayer of the upright pleases him.”

Mehta then contacted the Wisconsin-based Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF) about the matter, which in turn sent a letter to the district, asking that it order Noll to cease and desist the practice.

But Superintendent Michael Gilbert, who is also a Christian, has now released a statement noting that he had been contacted by two area residents and FFRF about the matter, and asked the media not to “waste your time and effort on these few detractors.”

“The residents were offended at the use of Scripture, demanding that it be stopped and calling for disciplinary action against Mr. Noll,” he stated. “I am fully aware of the practice at the high school and will not pursue any action against our high school principal or any other member of our faculty/staff concerning this issue.”

“Let me also be clear that we have not (in my opinion) violated anyone’s rights and/or subjected anyone to undue stress,” Gilbert continued. “Bible studies and Scriptures are allowed in schools. The requirement is that the material be presented in a neutral manner. It is my position that we met that standard with the morning announcements.”

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He said that he will keep FFRF in his prayers.

“My recommended response to the FFRF is, ‘I’m sorry you feel that way. I will be praying for you and your staff daily,'” Gilbert said.

“[A]s a Christian Brother, it will not promote the values we hold so dear to assail those that disagree with the gospel. We will state our case,” the superintendent added. “We will make sure our rights are just as protected as anyone else that lives in this great country. We will continue to provide for all the needs of our students and we will do so while traveling the High Road.”

Students and former alumni have also taken to social media with profile pictures that simply state, “I support Dan Noll.” A Facebook group called “Support Dan Noll and White Oak School” has over 600 members.


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  • thoughtsfromflorida

    ” The requirement is that the material be presented in a neutral manner. It is my position that we met that standard with the morning announcements.”

    LOL. No, reading scripture and citing Biblical teachings over the loudspeaker is not “neutral”, it is promotion.

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

      You do realize that this entire news website isn’t neutral either.

      • Paul Hiett

        This website is a Christian news site hosted by those who agree with Christianity, and they have the right to put up anything they want on here.

        A public school is not funded by Christians, it’s funded by tax payers, and therefore should not be biased towards any religion at all.

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

          #don’t care

          • Paul Hiett

            Oh trust me, I know you don’t care. You’re a Christian and therefore only care about something as long as it’s in favor of your choice of a religion.

            it’s called hypocrisy.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

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          • Paul Hiett

            If you’re going to post a picture of something to make you appear witty and humorous, you might want to do it with a pic of something we can actually see.

          • Abreka

            A lot of people felt the same way about the government of Germany circa 1939.

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        Yes, I do. I also know that this website is a private enterprise which is completely different than a public school. Are you not aware of that difference?

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

          Are you not aware of that difference?

          • Paul Hiett

            Do you have any idea what you’re talking about? All you do is repeat the last question you are asked, or throw up a stupid “troll” pic thinking you’re funny (what’s funnier is that it was removed).

            Why are you so intent on trolling rather than engaging in a discussion?

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            Why are you so insistent on responding to me?

          • Paul Hiett

            Out of curiosity, what are you so angry at? Did something happen in your life that you feel you have to troll people on the internet?

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            Did something happen to you that you have to post your anti Christian hate on a Christian forum?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Yes, I am. Are you?

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            Are you?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            What an adorably puerile response.

      • Ambulance Chaser

        They can print whatever they want. But if they’re going to print blatant lies, we’re going to call them out on it.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

    That’s one superintendent who is doing it RIGHT! Haters gonna hate- Proverbs 9:8

    • Paul Hiett

      And by “right” you mean as long as he’s reading from your choice of a religious text. I have no doubt at all that if a Principal were to quote a different religion’s text during the announcements, you’d be up in arms over it.

      Religion has no place in any public school.

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

        As long as there’s testing, there’ll be prayer in school.
        Jesus loves you. Feel free to be mad at that.

        • Paul Hiett

          How would you feel if the Principal sang the Muslim call to prayer over the intercom each morning?

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            How would you feel if the principal quoted scripture over the intercom each morning?

          • Paul Hiett

            Yeah, didn’t expect you to actually answer with anything resembling honesty.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            I don’t expect you to actually know what I’m talkin’ about. willis.

          • SFBruce

            I think Paul raises an interesting question. He merely wants to know exactly what you think freedom of religion entails. Are we truly free to believe what our conscience dictates, or are only certain beliefs OK?

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            Every one is free to be trolled.

          • Paul Hiett

            Looks like you’re the only one trolling,.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            Well obviously.

          • TheBBP

            Paul is not genuinely seeking discussion, he is trolling. He is also very quick to throw out the term “hypocrite” at his discretion regardless of the fact that he is the one who argues for the legitimacy of gay marriage but is not willing to go that far for polygamists.

            He doesn’t care about the answer as long as it gives him something to argue.

          • Paul Hiett

            While you are 100% incorrect, I’m not surprised. Polygamy is not a valid comparison to gay marriage. Nor is wanting to marry a child, or a horse, or a rock. I don’t expect you to understand this, of course, which is why you resort to your claims of “trolling”.

            It seems to me, and as evidenced by Regina’s responses, that the only ones trolling are the “Christians”.

            Furthermore, it is hypocritical to complain about Christian signs being taken down, but then turn around and admit if it was another religion it wouldn’t matter.

            Unless, of course, you don’t know what the word “hypocrite” means?

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            Do you know what the word “hypocrite” means?

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            And that’s what I’m here for, to give him something to argue about. Since he has no God, here I am to give his life meaning. Wheeee!

          • The Lone Ranger

            That’s Religion ! How is it Sir you don’t know the difference between religion and Truth ? Have you not looked in to that fact for your self ? You do not have to stay ignorant of this fact and neither do the Muslims you can choose to stay ignorant, if you want , but for your sake be honest with yourself. There is no excuse for not knowing the truth their is only one truth and ten thousand religions.
            2 Corinthians 4:6
            For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Just because you refuse to believe and read and study the scriptures for yourself, does not make it not true, you have a choice to receive or reject Knowledge. Receive or reject religion they are not one and the same thing dear Sir . God gives you the right to choose what your conscience dictates even if your conscience is wrong that’s why you need knowledge of the word of God, I warn you think about it.

          • Paul Hiett

            I understand and respect your position that you believe in your religion. However, you should take the same stance of your own in regard to the religious beliefs of all others.

            Public schools and those in charge of teaching the youth of our country…a group of children made up of many cultures and faiths, by the way…should not be allowed to use their position to support, or insult, any religion.

            There are Christian schools in this country you can send your children to, just as there are schools of many different religions. Those are private schools, and they can dictate their religious curriculum all they want. Public schools, however, cannot, as they are funded by the tax payers.

            You wouldn’t want the Muslim call to prayer being sung in your child’s school, so you should also respect those of other religions when they ask not to hear Christian scripture in theirs.

        • thoughtsfromflorida

          “As long as there’s testing, there’ll be prayer in school. ”

          LOL. So true.

        • Lark62

          Yep. Every student as an individual can pray as often as he or she wants. This is guaranteed by the Constitution. But no school employee can pick one religious tradition and impose it on students as the good one or the right one.

          Is it really that hard to understand? Think about how you would want your child to be treated if the school were predominantly mormon or hindu or jewish or catholic. Would you want your child bullied and mocked as an outsider? Would you want your child, every day, to lie about and deny personal religious beliefs to fit in? Can’t you see why our Constitution protects all civil rights not just those of the majority? Treat others as you would want to be treated.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            Because of course Jesus would want people to hate Christianity.

          • Paul Hiett

            You’re certainly working hard towards that goal…

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            It’s how I get paid.

          • Paul Hiett

            Something tells me a few 20’s dropped on the asphalt outside of your clients car is how you get paid…

          • Law77

            Matthew 10:22 “You will be hated by everyone because of Me,the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.” Jesus does not want them to hate us, but they will hate us Christians because we are servants of him.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            There is no such thing as a “no bullying” clause in the constitution. Therefore, if someone wants to bully someone else, they are free to do so. Get over it.

          • Lark62

            Christian love?

            Treat others as you would want to be treated?

            Blessed are ths merciful?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I’m 99% sure you’re trolling, but, just to be on the safe side, there’s no “murdering” clause in the Constitution either. Is murder legal now?

      • The Lone Ranger

        Religion has no place in any public school, but the Holy Ghost should be put first, not only in school but in ones personal life also praise him!
        Psalm 150:6
        Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.

        • Faithwalker

          Amen!!

      • Patti

        Children certainly have the right to pray and even to get together for Bible studies during non-class time. It’s when it’s the teachers and administrators who are leading the prayer or doing the Bible readings that it then becomes state promotion of religion. That is, religion does have a place in the school, and that’s in the hearts and minds of the believers, not as state sponsored proselytizing.

    • The Last Trump

      Ive heard it said that…
      “Haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate!”…

      • Lark62

        The only hatred is from those who hate the Constitution of the United States. The only hatred is from those who believe that they have a right to impose one religious viewpoint on all children in a public school, denying their neighbors freedom to exercise their own religious beliefs.

        • The Last Trump

          I hear you buddy! Those darn Muslims! 🙂
          Good thing we Christians of the world are still around to stop them from their diabolical plan for world domination. Thanks to Obama, they’re even creeping into schools near you. And have infiltrated all of the highest levels of the military and government.

          Get in the game bud. Might want to consider what life under Islam is going to be like before you continue bashing the Christian heritage that allowed you to freely speak out here the way you are in the first place. These battles in our schools are not about freedom FROM religion. They’re about REPLACING Christianity with Islam.

          Do a google search about all of the schools and universities that have removed Christianity and are now practicing Islamic ceremonies and traditions. You will likely be shocked.

          • Paul Hiett

            I sincerely hope you’re joking.

          • Lark62

            I would like to see a citation of any public school promoting islam. It doesnt exist.

          • The Last Trump

            Wow. You haters of Christianity don’t get out much, do you?
            I can’t do all of your research for you, dude. But I’ll do you a solid by helping to get you started. You’re welcome.
            Seriously bud. Time to wake up and get your head out of the sand.
            Your future is in peril.

            http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/01/14/muslim-call-to-prayer-to-be-chanted-every-friday-at-duke-university/

            http://christiannews.net/2015/01/18/ucla-broadcasting-muslim-call-to-prayer-declaring-allah-is-great-on-campus/

            https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=islam+in+school&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4SAVB_enCA631&q=islam+in+school&gs_l=hp…0l5.0.0.0.4982………..0.ZpubpUTdZrE&gws_rd=ssl

          • Paul Hiett

            First, Duke isn’t doing that. I guess you conveniently forgot to link all the articles that reported on Duke reversing that decision.

            Also, the UCLA call to prayer was a one time thing…something you conveniently left out as well.

            Got any more “examples”?

          • The Last Trump

            Shouldn’t have happened AT ALL, eh Paul? So why did it?
            I conveniently left out nothing. These schools have NO BUSINESS PROMOTING ANY religion, remember? So what gives, smart guy? Please enlighten us all here as to why Christianity is forbidden but Islam is beginning to be PROMOTED.
            This ought to be good.

          • Lark62

            Occasional activities at a university, where no one religion gets special favors, are fine.
            The key is neutrality and equal treatment.

            Again, how does this relate to daily readings from one and only one religious viewpoint at a public high school ?

          • Paul Hiett

            UCLA didn’t do it. The group holding the meeting did it with a portable microphone. Do you even bother reading what you post?

            Again, Duke didn’t allow the call.

            UCLA didn’t either, the students did it on their own.

            How, exactly, are these examples of Islam taking over?

          • The Last Trump

            Wow. Pretty thick, eh Paul?
            Should not have even been considered or condoned by schools who previously ousted Christianity due to religious separation. Was only stopped due to public outrage and accusations of double standards by Christians.
            And, surprise surprise, YOU are the one conveniently avoiding the details of the Islamic indoctrination occurring in our schools that is plastered all over the Internet. Do a simple search if you can tear yourself away from trolling this Christian website. Or simply click on the link to Islaminourschools which I graciously provided for your continuing education in things you clearly know so little about. Or not. Enjoy Islam! Say it with me Paul. “Allahu Ackbar” 🙂

          • Paul Hiett

            First, you were 100% incorrect in your claim that Duke and UCLA are allowing calls to prayer. You attempted to mislead.

            Furthermore, there were no double standards at Duke. The Christian bell ringing would still continue as it always had, but on Fridays, for 3 minutes, the Muslims would be allowed to have their call to prayer.

            You are correct in that intolerant Christians were part of why Duke reversed its decision. The intolerant Christians also made threats against the Muslim students.

            So, in short…no Christian would be inconvenienced had the Muslims been allowed their call to prayer. No Christian ceremony would have been disallowed, or interrupted. In fact, not a single thing regarding Christianity would have been affected.

            But instead of exhibiting tolerance, Christians went the other way and demonstrated how much they hate Muslims.

            Tell me again how Islam is invading?

          • The Last Trump

            Lord of the Cherry Pickers has it wrong as usual. No attempts to mislead. Islam is everywhere in American Schools. Christianity is purged. Do your own research folks. I’d let the Internet with its links to headlines and articles be my source of news over what Christian website trolling Paul declares! 🙂

            Paul: “First, Duke isn’t doing that. I guess you conveniently forgot to link all the articles that reported on Duke reversing that decision”

            Duke was absolutely GOING to do that. Until they were STOPPED in their tracks for attempting to do what is clearly promoting support for Islam. As even Paul is forced to admit that they were forced TO REVERSE their decision. Which they shouldn’t have even been considering in the first place thanks to folks like Paul that like to scream from the rooftops “separation of church and state!!”

            And UCLA?

            First Paul states that: “the UCLA call to prayer was a one time thing…something you conveniently left out as well.”

            And then he says: “Again, Duke didn’t allow the call.
            UCLA didn’t either, the students did it on their own.”

            “Less than a week after controversy erupted over an announcement that a Muslim call to prayer would be broadcast at North Carolina’s Duke University, it has come to light that students at UCLA in California HAVE BEEN DOING SO FOR SOME TIME.” Hmmm…THAT’s not how Paul tells it. Something HE conveniently left out eh?

            “But as the call to prayer made headlines nationwide, some expressed concern over the accommodation in light of the violence that thousands of Muslims are committing worldwide in the name of Allah. Duke University was flooded with calls and emails from those nationwide that opposed the accommodation. On Thursday, THE UNIVERSITY announced that it had changed ITS plans.” Hmmm…”the university changed ITS plans!” Again not quite what Paul would have us believe…And see how he rages against Christians in his posts! Like they are to blame for the many calls from concerned individuals who opposed this unprecedented promotion of Islam in American schools. Opposition he, HIMSELF, regularly directs at Christianity in any school setting and Christianity alone it would appear, as we can see his apparent indifference to the promotion of Islam in said schools.

            “Instead of having the Muslim call to prayer broadcast from the chapel bell tower, Duke University said that Islamic students would instead gather outside of the chapel to chant their call to prayer before moving inside to continue their meeting. On Friday, approximately 100 Muslim students attended the call to prayer, which was broadcast from the chapel steps via a small speaker.”

            Yeah, nothing to see here according to Paul and Lark.

            Christian books are purged from school libraries, Christian meetings can no longer rent space in public schools, private Bible studies on campuses are shut down, prayers over meals forbidden, Christmas carols that mention Jesus abolished and, oh wait, what’s the title of this article again? But Muslim calls to prayer can be broadcasted over school property? Riiiiiight.
            And our children have to learn about the Five Pillars of Islam.

            Boy I can’t wait to see you fools in your turbans. It’ll look good on you.

            For anybody other than Lark and Paul who actually does research and has a willingness to learn, here’s a simple google search about the legitimate and widespread concern over Islam overtaking American schools. Feel free to try to explain away the countless links provided. Or the surprising silence from all of the religious separation crowd who worked so tirelessly to purge Christianity from our schools. Good luck!
            (Or just listen to the ramblings of Lark and Paul. Nothing to see hear…Back to sleep 😉

            https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=islam+in+schools&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4SAVB_enCA631&q=islam+in+schools&gs_l=hp…0l3j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.0.0.0.8429………..0.tjEF2IxvF8Q&gws_rd=ssl#q=concern+over+islam+taught+in+u.s.+schools

          • Lark62

            Duke University is not a public school. It is a private university founded by Methodists. School adminstrators considered allowing the CHURCH located ON CAMPUS to be used by muslims one hour per week as an act of kindness and tolerance, but this proposal was quickly abandoned due to a massive freak out by christians.

            And this is related to the promotion of religion in a public high school how?

          • The Last Trump

            Didn’t even bother to check the Islaminourschools link did you? Or do your own google search. And none of what these two universities do regarding the promotion of Islam concerns you, eh?
            You get what you deserve my friend. Enjoy Islam. Hypocrites who attack Christianity and troll Christian websites decrying “freedom from religion!!” but have absolutely nothing to say regarding Islam in our schools! Better start practicing your Muslim call to prayer.

          • Lark62

            The Maryland high school was teaching comparative religion as part of the social studies curriculum. This is completely legal. An educated person should understand the history, primary beliefs and major holidays of various world religions.

            Teaching about religion is not the same as teaching that the beliefs of one religion are preferred or correct.

            Keep trying.

            However, if you truly believe the nonsense you’re saying, you should be fighting to strengthen not weaken Constitutional protections and the laws that keep religion and government separate.

          • Abreka

            Look to the United Kingdom. THAT is what happens when you allow religion in school.

          • Lark62

            It is the Constitution of the United States that protects from governmental establishment of any religious belief. I will defend the Constitution. That means I will oppose any attempt by school employees to promote any one religious viewpoint as the right one, even if I agree with the view presented. The Constitution is bigger than my personal opinions.

          • The Last Trump

            Enjoy Islam my friend.
            I think you’ll find you miss Christianity. Dearly.

          • Rebus Caneebus

            Enjoy Islam my friend.I think you’ll find you miss Christianity. Dearly.

            Uh, Lark62 is one of the people OPPOSING government establishment of religion – Islam, Christian, whatever.

            YOU appear to be OK with government involvement with religion — as long as it’s yours. One of the problems with that myopic attitude is that politics change, and if the government decides to push a different religion, you have no room to complain, since you’ve long ago granted them the power.

          • RobbieSDA

            The Constitution was avoiding the establishment of a government religion. Where the government imposed and required adherence to a specific system. Not the generic reading of a scripture that is used by numerous religious traditions and in and of itself is establishing no specific religion. As I said before, the real thing the atheists are against is any mention of God in general, which is not their right to not hear. Most people, Christians, Jews, Mormons, even Muslims and many secular individuals would appreciate the reading of scripture to encourage a better moral foundation for their children. Only the militant atheists believe that they are somehow being oppressed by hearing something good. Quite sad, really!

          • Lark62

            There is a difference between private action and government action. As a private citizen using personal property, preach on

            But nobody – Not you. Not me – can use the authority, the resources or the property of our shared government to advance or promote one religious view. The government must be view point neutral and extend the same rights and privileges to all.

            This is the very foundation of our nation and our Constitution.

    • Bryan Koenig

      Amen sister Jesus is Lord !!!!!!

  • TheBBP

    Way to stand strong, Superintendent. You are in my prayers.

    • Lark62

      Get out your checkbook, because the legal fees will be paid by the local residents not by prayer. You do not have the right to establish christianity as the official religion of a public school.

      • TheBBP

        An official religion for the school was not proclaimed. The speaker read a Bible verse. That is not an institution’s establishment of an official religion. The only thing that the Superintendent has done is to stand ground for this person’s right to free speech.

        • Lark62

          Government employees do not have the right to promote their religion while on the clock. The DMV clerk cannot make you join in a hindu or muslim prayer before giving you your driver’s license, no matter how strongly she feels about her prayers. A school principal cannot read bible verses to a captive audience of students.

          • Guest

            So what are you going to do about it other than whine on a christian news comments section?

          • Lark62

            I will renew my membership in the FFRF. What are you doing to protect the constitutional rights of those in the minority?

          • Bill

            How much is that membership? Whatever it is, I’ll give twice that to any organization that will stand up for Christian rights…..

          • Lark62

            Then give it to the FFRF. They defend the Constitutional rights of everyone.

          • Bill

            No they don’t. They promote their way. Christians promote freedom of choice.

          • Paul Hiett

            And by choice, do you mean allowing only Christian prayers over the intercom at our public schools?

          • Bill

            “freedom of religion”. If you don’t want to pray, then don’t. Simple as that. But the atheist, says ” no, you cant pray if I can hear it”. Any 3rd grader can tell you which one allows freedom…

          • Paul Hiett

            Freedom of religion doesn’t allow you, as a public school official, to promote your religion, or any religion for that matter, in a public school.

            Anyone is free to pray, you just can’t do it over the public address system of a public school.

            This isn’t that hard to understand.

          • Bill

            ” Anyone is FREE to pray”, “you just CANT do it” …..thank you for making my point!

          • Paul Hiett

            Oh look, a Christian cherry picked from my reply. Well, if there’s anything ya’ll are good at, it’s cherry picking!!!!

          • Bill

            “If you cant win an argument, divert to another topic quickly” ! atheist motto…….?

          • Paul Hiett

            Seriously?

            You posted only part of my quote to make it appear I said something I did not, and you want to claim I’m the one that can’t win an argument?

          • Bill

            Please clarify what I got wrong?

          • Paul Hiett

            ” Anyone is FREE to pray”, “you just CANT do it” …..thank you for making my point!

            Don’t you think you should include the entirety of my quote, and not just cherry picking what you like to make it sound like I said something different?

          • The Last Trump

            Says the Lord of the Cherry Pickers.
            You look pretty foolish Paul. Keep posting buddy! 🙂

          • Lark62

            You can pray. You cannot use government property or government authority to make someone else pray.

          • Paul Hiett

            Let me Bill it for you…

            “You can pray. You cannot…pray”. Which is it, Lark? Why are you so undecided?

          • Bill

            You are absolutely right! That’s exactly what the Constitution says too!. You cant make someone pray. However you can pray if YOU want to. Thanks for helping me make my point!

          • The Last Trump

            Or STOP them from doing so.

          • Lark62

            Who is stopping one single child from praying or reading religious literature?

            School employees cannot cause someone else to pray to their god or listen to readings from their religious texts.

            It tis actually quite simple to understand.

          • The Last Trump

            Good question. Now go find out the answer.
            Simple google search. Prepare to be shocked.

          • The Last Trump

            Exactly. It’s NOT hard to understand. No one can promote or SUPPRESS one’s religious faith in any public school.
            You don’t stop being Christian or praying over your food simply because you left your home. Never has been that way. Never will be.

          • Paul Hiett

            Not allowing a school administrator to use the intercom to promote his own personal choice of a religion is not suppressing anyone’s faith. It’s actually promoting everyone’s right to freedom of religion.

          • Lark62

            You can pray over your food or anything else. You have zero right to infringe on my freedom and cause me to pray to your god.

          • The Last Trump

            Wrong. Trolls like you have even tried to stop Christians from praying over their food in public places like food courts and cafeterias. Your suppression of Christian religious freedom knows no bounds.

          • Patti

            Please show us where Christians have been stopped in the USA from praying over their food in food courts or cafeterias.

          • The Last Trump

            Seriously folks. The Internet is truly a wonder of the modern world. All you have to do is a simple google search. Here you go. LAZY! 🙂

            https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=islam+in+schools&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4SAVB_enCA631&q=islam+in+schools&gs_l=hp…0l3j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.0.0.0.8429………..0.tjEF2IxvF8Q&gws_rd=ssl#q=mall+stops+prayers+
            https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=islam+in+schools&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4SAVB_enCA631&q=islam+in+schools&gs_l=hp…0l3j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.0.0.0.8429………..0.tjEF2IxvF8Q&gws_rd=ssl#q=school+stops+prayers+over+lunch+

          • Lark62

            Wrong. On private property, a group of 10 people couldn’t form a prayer circle in the middle of a mall blocking other shoppers.

            The owner made it clear they were free to pray over meals and in ways thst d dnt interefere with the rights of others to shop .

          • The Last Trump

            Wrong.

            “The mall manager verified that prayer is not allowed at the mall because this is private property,” she said, according to Starnes.

            Brantley said she then found out the restriction was worse than she thought.

            “I said, sir, are you saying that people who eat in the food court can’t bow their heads and pray?” she said. “He said, ‘No ma’am.’ That’s exactly what he said.”

            News soon got out, putting pressure on the property owners”

            AFTER THAT, the Mall explained:
            “The Mall first and foremost has no issues or objection whatsoever with anyone of any religion denomination privately and quietly praying over there food before they eat or showing devotion towards their religion of choice provided it does not impose itself on others or take away from the overall shopping experience.”

          • Patti

            You made the claim, so it’s up to you to back it up. Yes, I can do a search, but I may or may not come up with the incidents you’re speaking of.

            Anyway, you’ve found 2 recent incidences in the entire country, and in both incidences the powers that be claim that isn’t their policy at all – that is, there was a mistake. To be specific:

            The Dublin Mall incident actually had nothing to do with government suppression, though I guess you didn’t specifically say the suppression was governmental. It was the policy of a private mall and possibly an overreaction by a security guard. Here’s what John Engler, vice president of MCK (who owns the mall) had to say:

            “…The Mall first and foremost has no issues or objection whatsoever with anyone of any religion denomination privately and quietly praying over their food before they eat or showing devotion towards their religion of choice provided it does not impose itself on others or take away from the overall shopping experience.”

            http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/dublin/2014/08/05/dublin-mall-prayer/13618189/

            The little girl in the school cafeteria case sounds like an overreaction of a teacher, though we do only have the testimony of a 5 year old. Still the parents did the right thing by complaining and letting the school know they believed this did in fact happen. And the policy was clarified for all to see in favor of private prayer being allowed:

            Following the video’s uploading[a video of the little girl telling her story], district spokesman Michael Lawrence told the Orlando Sentinel the principal “made it clear to staff that students do have the right to pray in school.”

            “We don’t have a policy against student prayer at all,” he added.

            http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/florida-girl-claims-stopped-praying-lunch-article-1.1742858

            What’s interesting is this, from the same link:

            Gabriella [the 5 year old] has since been taken out of the school and her parents are now considering home-schooling.

            So they won their point, but they took their child out of school anyway. I just hope they don’t let her schooling lapse.

            I’m afraid I’m not impressed, Trump. You found a couple of people who overstepped their bounds and were called on it. Now how many Christians have tried to force their beliefs on people, the flap against same-sex marriage being a recent issue? And have Christians tried to police their own by telling them people do have a right to equality under the government despite going against Christian beliefs? This article is about a Christian using the school public address system for a Bible reading, and has he apologized or backed down?

          • The Last Trump

            I don’t have to back anything up. If its important to someone they can look it up. Or not.
            Also not here to impress. I passed on information. I was also kind enough to provide links as requested. On the topic of prayers halted over meals. Which occurred. Because of anti-Christian bias in those that were involved which I compared trolls on this site to. So sorry that there were not more than two examples for you for my comparison!? Go figure.
            Regardless, numerous articles speak to the ever increasing assault on Christianity at all levels. Do your own homework if you care. Or not. Seems like you have a pretty strong bias against Christianity yourself, so what should I expect, right? Oh, and incidentally, why ARE you on a Christian website? Please don’t tell me you’re one of THOSE people who COMES to a Christian gathering to complain about the Christians FORCING themselves on you and getting in YOUR face! Brother! 🙂

          • Patti

            I follow some people on Disqus and they were discussing this article. Is a Christian site closed to outsiders?

            You did find a couple of links, and I thank you for that. And I guess I did get snarky about it being up to you to produce them. I’m sorry about that. I was wrong.

            And I am aware of the “war on Christianity” which I’ve always thought was highly exaggerated and never found any real evidence for. You found 2 incidences where some people probably overreacted and were NOT backed up by their superiors. That is, both the owner of the mall and the principal of the school stipulated that private prayer is allowed on the premises. We don’t know for sure if the incidents happened as reported, but getting the correct policy verified is nonetheless a good thing. So Christians won in both cases, as they should have since private prayer should always be allowed.

            On the other side, there is concern of Christians continually trying to push their beliefs on everyone else, even to the point of using the law to do it. If it were just a handful of people who were then reined in by their leaders and the activity stopped, it wouldn’t be an issue. But that’s not the case, this article being one example. They’re actually in somewhat of a quandary since they are commanded to spread the gospel. It’s a balancing act to attempt to spread the gospel without using government organizations, such as the schools, to do so.

          • Paul Hiett

            Take any link he posts with a grain of salt. He posted a couple of links to articles about the University of Duke and UCLA allowing Muslim call to prayer over their PA systems.

            Wasn’t true at all.

          • Patti

            He actually posted a couple of Google searches of the 2 incidents in question. I tried to pick what I thought would be neutral links to get the details.

          • The Last Trump

            You’ll have to forgive Paul. The man is vehemently opposed to Christianity and so spends every waking hour trolling this Christian website responding to EVERY post! 🙂

            Regarding our previous discussion, if you even care of course, was this discourse where Paul would have you believe that Islam in American schools “wasn’t true at all”:

            “Lord of the Cherry Pickers has it wrong as usual. No attempts to mislead. Islam is everywhere in American Schools. Christianity is purged. Do your own research folks. I’d let the Internet with its links to headlines and articles be my source of news over what Christian website trolling Paul declares! 🙂

            Paul: “First, Duke isn’t doing that. I guess you conveniently forgot to link all the articles that reported on Duke reversing that decision”

            Duke was absolutely GOING to do that. Until they were STOPPED in their tracks for attempting to do what is clearly promoting support for Islam. As even Paul is forced to admit that they were forced TO REVERSE their decision. Which they shouldn’t have even been considering in the first place thanks to folks like Paul that like to scream from the rooftops “separation of church and state!!”

            And UCLA?

            First Paul states that: “the UCLA call to prayer was a one time thing…something you conveniently left out as well.”

            And then he says: “Again, Duke didn’t allow the call.
            UCLA didn’t either, the students did it on their own.”

            “Less than a week after controversy erupted over an announcement that a Muslim call to prayer would be broadcast at North Carolina’s Duke University, it has come to light that students at UCLA in California HAVE BEEN DOING SO FOR SOME TIME.” Hmmm…THAT’s not how Paul tells it. Something HE conveniently left out eh?

            “But as the call to prayer made headlines nationwide, some expressed concern over the accommodation in light of the violence that thousands of Muslims are committing worldwide in the name of Allah. Duke University was flooded with calls and emails from those nationwide that opposed the accommodation. On Thursday, THE UNIVERSITY announced that it had changed ITS plans.” Hmmm…”the university changed ITS plans!” Again not quite what Paul would have us believe…And see how he rages against Christians in his posts! Like they are to blame for the many calls from concerned individuals who opposed this unprecedented promotion of Islam in American schools. Opposition he, HIMSELF, regularly directs at Christianity in any school setting and Christianity alone it would appear, as we can see his apparent indifference to the promotion of Islam in said schools.

            “Instead of having the Muslim call to prayer broadcast from the chapel bell tower, Duke University said that Islamic students would instead gather outside of the chapel to chant their call to prayer before moving inside to continue their meeting. On Friday, approximately 100 Muslim students attended the call to prayer, which was broadcast from the chapel steps via a small speaker.”

            Yeah, nothing to see here according to Paul and Lark.

            Christian books are purged from school libraries, Christian meetings can no longer rent space in public schools, private Bible studies on campuses are shut down, prayers over meals forbidden, Christmas carols that mention Jesus abolished and, oh wait, what’s the title of this article again? But Muslim calls to prayer can be broadcasted over school property? Riiiiiight.
            And our children have to learn about the Five Pillars of Islam.

            For anybody other than Lark and Paul who actually does research and has a willingness to learn, here’s a simple google search about the legitimate and widespread concern over Islam overtaking American schools. Feel free to try to explain away the countless links provided. Or the surprising silence from the religious separation crowd who worked so tirelessly to purge Christianity from our schools. Good luck!
            (Or just listen to the ramblings of Lark and Paul. Nothing to see hear…Back to sleep ;)”
            Links provided for your perusal. As always, people should decide for themselves and take care regarding the nonsense they hear on these sites without verification. And judge for yourself who brings intelligent discussion to the table and who babbles on incoherently about their “opinions”.

            https://www.google.ca/search?s
            http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/01/14/muslim-call-to-prayer-to-be-chanted-every-friday-at-duke-university/

            http://christiannews.net/2015/01/18/ucla-broadcasting-muslim-call-to-prayer-declaring-allah-is-great-on-campus/
            http://www.islaminourschools.com/

            https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=concern+over+islam+in+american+schools&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4SAVB_enCA631&q=concern+over+islam+in+american+schools&gs_l=hp….0.0.0.12463………..0.uTiEpkN3Qik&gws_rd=ssl

          • Kara Connor

            So a school administrator who chose to read the Quran over the speakers every morning in a public school would be fine with you?

          • The Last Trump

            Absolutely. I would simply leave the room like people who disagreed with Christianity have FOR DECADES. Freedom is freedom.

          • Abreka

            There was a time when those who disagreed with Christianity were burned at the stake.

          • Paul Hiett

            They still are in some countries.

          • Patti

            Generally I’m in agreement with you on this thread, but I am going to challenge you on this one. Where are Christians still burning or killing nonbelievers? I know Christianity has a sad history of doing just that, but I really think you need to give them credit for some evolving.

          • Paul Hiett

            While not entirely relevant, there are third world countries, primarily in Africa, that do set upon atheists.

            There are also many countries, those under Islamic law mainly, that kill us today (recent events on CNN even).

            The way I see it though, is that Islam is merely where Christianity was during the Crusades.

          • Patti

            I see it the same way. Christianity has evolved thru the years, our own founding fathers having played a large role in that development by separating church and state. Islam unfortunately still has a lot of evolving to do in many areas of the world.

            As for Africa I know there’s persecution of gay people in some countries, unfortunately encouraged by some American Christian pastors. As for Christians killing off nonbelievers, I think that’s only where there are larger tribal conflicts going on – that is religion is only used as an excuse.

            Anyway, one only has to look at the more violent countries in the Islamic world to see why so many of us do want to keep religion and government separated. Christianity has evolved and we want to keep it evolved. That means not using government institutions to do the church’s work.

          • Guzzman

            Totally agree -There can be no freedom of religion in this country if the government is permitted to impose religious viewpoints on its citizens. Arming religion with the force of law destroys any hopes of religious freedom, that is why no governmental entity at any level in this country has a grant of authority to compel worship or promote religion.

            Madison said as much on numerous occasions: “Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any Manner contrary to their conscience.”
            — James Madison, explaining to Congress during the House Debate what the First Amendment means to him, 1 Annals of Congress 730 (August 15, 1789)

          • Patti

            Thomas Jefferson also made several statements saying the church/state separation was intentional and necessary and that he expected freedom of religion to be for everyone. He even specifically mentioned Turks (Muslims). That is, he never saw this as a Christian country.

            And Congress even stated such in the Treaty of Tripoli:

            Here is the full text of Article 11:

            As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

            – See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/fact-checking-barton-part-v-treaty-tripoli#sthash.e73EcUtZ.dpuf

          • Bill

            I love it when you folks bring up the Treaty of Tripoli. It shows how little you research you actually do on your own. Research it ON YOUR OWN not an atheist website. You’ll discover it was discarded in favor of a different treaty among other problems with it…sheeesh. Don’t you folks ever do your own thinking….

          • Patti

            I didn’t research it on any site. I already knew about it from various reading and simply looked for a link that had the passage readily available. Since we were talking about an historical treaty, I figured the passage would be the same on any site and so I didn’t worry about the site’s political leanings.

            So now that you’ve started the discussion off with an unwarranted personal insult, would you like to post your proof that it was rejected at least in part due to the passage in question?

          • Guzzman

            The Treaty of Tripoli was negotiated under President Washington, unanimously ratified by the Senate and signed into law by President John Adams in 1797. The wording that the United States was “not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…” merely reinforced what the U.S. Constitution had established a few years earlier – a secular basis for our government.

          • The Last Trump

            Wait til you get a flavour for what living under a Godless government feels like. People should be pissing their pants with fear instead of applauding our moral decay and separation from God. Atheistic governments have killed more of their own people than have all of the wars combined. I think you’re going to find you miss Christianity and leaders with Christian morals and convictions.

          • Paul Hiett

            There’s no such thing as an “atheistic” government. Put away your fear mongering tactics for dummies book and come join the rest of society.

          • The Last Trump

            Ooops! Sorry. Forgot you were still here. I’ll put away the grown up words and dumb it down for you.
            “Godless” Paul. We’re talking about the Godless.
            Fear mongering? History Paul. Put away your hate for theology and read a history book or two my friend. Your embarrassing yourself. Again.

          • Helookalikaman79

            History books are just one side of the story, the winner is the one that says what happened. And your Beliefs are yours, and should not be forced upon everyone else… You think the morals are decaying, it is not, it is the control religion had that is slipping from its fingertips ….

          • Kara Connor

            You’d have to leave the school if ot were an announcement. Are you suggesting that the principle should be allowed to proselytize his or her religion to the school and have to students leave if it conflicted with their faith or lack thereof? You seem very happy with a Christian (which sect though?) message, but a Sharia one not so much. This is precisely why it shouldn’t be done for any religion. The principle is free to pray in their office. Not broadcast it.

          • Helookalikaman79

            I am not sure how school intercoms work at your schools. The intercoms used in schools here, are LOUD.. as in leaving the classroom to NOT hear the “prayer” wouldn’t work, as the intercom can be heard many blocks away from the school… Also, in schools here, there is no “leaving” the classroom if you disagree or choose not to listen to the announcements…. The principal wants to pray/quote bible verses, he can do so all he likes, as long as the intercom is OFF.

          • Patti

            Sigh… There you go again, Kara… Making sense. 😉

          • RobbieSDA

            Based on what I have garnered from reading about this issue, the purpose of reading the scriptures is to instill principles of morality and ethics, et al. That is not the same as promoting religion.

          • Paul Hiett

            Unbelievable…it IS the same thing!!!!! You can’t pray or read scripture or evangelize in a public school as an administrator or teacher. How the heck this is so hard for people to understand is beyond me.

          • wandakate

            I must agree with that statement. I do not agree with the way you think about all of these things however that is not hard to understand and I agree with it. Only in a private school or a Christian school should that be done without offending anyone.

          • Lark62

            If your child does not pray to the Virgin Mary, and everyday her teacher leads the class in a prayer to the Virgin Mary, your child’s right to be free from government imposition of religion is violated.

            Freedom means very student in that class is free to pray to whoever they want to pray to. But freedom also means that the public school teacher cannot use her authority to direct them to pray according to her beliefs. My second grader understands this just fine.

          • The Last Trump

            Gee that’s funny. In the free thinking Christian schools that I attended growing up, there was never any shortage of folks who disagreed with morning prayers and freely used their right to not participate by leaving the room.
            Where you from, Lark? North Korea?

          • Paul Hiett

            We’re not talking about what is and what is not tolerable in a private Christian school. Do you not understand the difference between “private” and “public”?

          • The Last Trump

            They were public schools, dolt. They just happened to be civilized enough to recite the Lord’s Prayer each morning.
            Try to keep up pal.

          • Paul Hiett

            Oh I see…so as long as a school advocates for YOUR faith, then it’s ok. If it was any other religion, it would be discrimination against Christians.

            Right?

          • The Last Trump

            Wasn’t my faith then. And I was free to walk out. No discrimination. And they could have broadcasted other faiths prayers. They were just too smart for that back then. Why offend the God who blessed you so richly? Wouldn’t make sense now would it? Soooo….how we doing today? Don’t tell me you’re one of the wilfully blind fools who actually believes “things are getting better”! Yikes!

          • wandakate

            As any woman about birth pains and she will most likely tell you that’s its more and more painful as time goes on. We are in those days on earth now. JESUS will be here as He already told us He would. He gave us many signs that attest to that fact. He said He would return in a generation of the re-establishment of the birth of Israel. That rebirth happened in May of 1948. A generation is approximately 70-80 years from that time. So, do the math. How about 2018-2028. Please don’t tell me we don’t know the day or the hour, (I’ve heard that a million times). The day or hour is irrelevant. What is relevant is the signs of the times and JESUS words in scripture. Read Revelation 11:15-19, coming at the 7th trumpet. Then satan is giving up this evil world to JESUS right then. Even tells us the ark of the covenant will be send on that day. Angles will rejoice. We were warned, so the day or hour was not what was important. It was the watching and waiting and He told us to be alert, aware, and not asleep at the wheel. TO be cautious and to obey and persevere until He comes for us.

          • Bruce Morrow

            Paul Hiett has a clear anti-Christian agenda on this site is clear for all to see.

          • MelanieWaffle

            It seems more to me he is asking questions which are making people uncomfortable. He may still very well be a Christian but is simply trying to show where your flawed arguments are. This way you can better stand up for Jesus.

          • wandakate

            YES exactly, like a troll. We are being testing in this life. Christians don’t like to admit that, but it’s true nonetheless. Stand up for JESUS, as we are soldiers of the cross. Our foundation is on solid ground, not sinking sand. Some just argue and push and put down to see where our faith is. NEVER give in. If you deny me before man, I will deny you before my FATHER which is in Heaven…said JESUS.

          • MelanieWaffle

            said by my Catholic theology professor, what is the point of having your faith if it can not stand true when tested. While I agree Christianity is the correct way, Paul is making you think and that’s not such a bad thing sometimes you will find you are wrong, others you will realize you are right. All I’m saying is he is not so much trolling as he is questioning our religion and I’ve yet to see many satisfactory answers from people.

          • wandakate

            THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD…THERE ARE NOT MULTIPLE GODS. ALL gods that are not the one and only true GOD of heaven and earth are false god’s. Can they give life, can they take it away? If they can do that then I am wrong, if not then I am right. I only know of one real GOD. GOD said, “I the LORD am one and there is no other”.

          • Aaron Springer

            As is the claim of every other religion.

          • Lark62

            The Supreme Court ruled against organized prayer in public schools 53 years ago. Try to keep up.

          • Bruce Morrow

            Why was that? all due to the complaints of an atheist who seemed content to force her beliefs on others. Yeah such logic…

          • Aaron Springer

            That word. Atheist. I don’t think it means what you think it means.

          • wandakate

            An atheist in my opinion means that the person does not believe in GOD at all.

          • Aaron Springer

            Bruce seems to think it means something else.

          • Bruce Morrow

            Yet in “public” schools the religious freedom of both teachers and staff and students is not simply made null and void simply because they are in a “public” school. The US Constitution still applies to all, even Christians.

          • Psygn

            That’s why they did away with the Pledge of Allegiance in many public schools, you shouldn’t have to leave the room.

          • The Last Trump

            Awwwww! Complain about the prayers. Complain about the pledge. Complain about deciding to use your freedom to leave the room and get off your lazy duff. How unfortunate for you to have been born in such an unprecedentedly blessed nation by God.
            That’s the real problem today. A nation full of lazy God hating, unpatriotic complainers.

          • Psygn

            if you want to sacrifice a goat feel free to take it outside and don’t expect everyone else to partake in your silly primitive rituals or fascist idolatry flag worshiping ceremonies.

          • Bill

            The question is do you understand ” Freedom of Religion”……apparently not!

          • Paul Hiett

            Clearly you don’t, if you think it’s acceptable to force people to listen to prayers.

          • Bill

            “force”………….so if I live next door to you and you don’t like the color of my car am forcing you to see it……………..do you understand what your saying?

          • Paul Hiett

            That’s the worst analogy ever. You can put almost anything you want in your front yard…even scripture verses if you want. I don’t care at all. In fact, I support it. I live in the Bible belt…believe me, a lot of my neighbors have such signs.

            However, your right to do that ends at the edge of your property

            Understand it better now?

          • Bill

            Exactly! If you don’t want to hear it don’t listen, but I have the right to say it….Thanks again for helping me out!

          • Paul Hiett

            You either lack the capacity for simple comprehension, or you’re just being a jerk on purpose.

            You can pray all you want. You can pray at the table next to me in the cafeteria…sure, I can walk away if I want.

            What you can’t do, is take a position at a public school and then use the intercom to force people to listen to your prayer.

            Is this really that hard to understand?

          • Bill

            Apparently it is. You just cant seem to grasp the idea of Freedom of Religion.

          • Helookalikaman79

            Freedom of Religion and Freedom FROM religion…. You have your beliefs, and I have mine. I do believe in God, and do NOT believe in organized hateful religions. You should NOT be forced to hear me pray over a PUBLIC GOVERMENT SCHOOL intercom, as I should not have to either… If this principal wants to read his bible on an intercom, he can do so at a PRIVATE NON-Government school…

          • Bill

            Ahhh…..so you added a wee little bit to the sentence to make it say what you want it to say. I get it now. Very “reasonable”………

          • RobbieSDA

            I need to ask, did the principle read a scripture, or did he pray? Everything I’ve read indicates he read a scripture. That is distinctly different than praying. If he prayed, please provide a link to the evidence so I can be corrected. Thanks.

          • Patti

            It’s not just that kids are being forced to listen, it’s that the principle is using his position of authority & respect to promote a religion, Christianity or Judaism. If the child is from a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, agnostic or atheistic home, then the parents understandably won’t be pleased with this.

          • wandakate

            I as a Christian grasp that, it makes sense and I do understand that. If I were a agnostic or any of the others you mentioned then I might well be offended. It’s probably not suitable in a public school where there are all kinds of kids with parents of all different faiths.

          • Patti

            And also where parents are by law required to send their children, unless they’ve made other arrangements for their education. Christian’s certainly wouldn’t like their children being subjected to a daily reading out of the Koran as a condition of attending public school.

          • Bruce Morrow

            Sounds like Paul is getting angry.

          • wandakate

            But GOD owns it all…The entire universe, the sun, moon, starts, galaxies, etc. are all His. He doesn’t have a back yard and His children follow Him and do what He tells them to do, IF they are His real children and not fake ones like many Christians.
            The world and everything in it is mine, said the LORD. I made the heavens and the earth. I made the sun to shine on the just and the unjust, and the rain to rain on the just and the unjust. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last…
            I the LORD am one, there was no other before me. I hold the world in the palm of my hand. I give life and I take it away. What else, did I leave anything out?

          • Abreka

            The SCOTUS ruling didn’t cover automobile color.

          • Lark62

            There are about a dozen churches within a one mile radius of my house. They hold services throughout the week. They have great big crosses on their property. I couldn’t care less. It’s their business.

            However, if you use government authority to make me llisten to their preaching, I would have a problem with it.

            I have no problem if the principal wants to read his bible all night long. I have no problem if he wants to listen to audio tapes in his car. I would have a serious problem if he used his taxpayer job and government authority to cause my child listen to religious nonsense as truth.

          • Bill

            I’m just curious. What makes you think its nonsense? Have you ever looked at the Bible with an open, intelligent mind and fairly considered its worth?

          • Lark62

            I was a christian for close to 30 years. It was only when I really read the bible -the whole bible, looked at it with an open mind and paid close attention to the words of the bible that I realized it was truly ridiculous.

          • Bill

            OK, that’s not Biblical correct, but I’ll let pass for now. Give me an example or two of the “ridiculous” stuff please? Here is your chance to convert a Christian to an a-theist.

          • Bruce Morrow

            Well such as…..????

          • Lark62

            I typed in two long answers. Both vanished . Probably operator error. I’m going to try again later from a laptop.

          • Lark62

            Something keeps preventing this from posting. Heres another try

            The so-called basis of all morality has instructions for how to sell your daughter to a *apist.

            The so-called basis of all morality has instructions for how to induce an *bortion in a woman suspected of adultery (if it works, she’s guilty; if it doesn’t, she’s innocent)

            Adam was created before land animals yet after all land
            animals were created

            God reportedly drowned every living thing on earth, with a
            few exceptions. Pause and picture the terror
            of a mother struggling to save her children and watching them die one by one. Picture a lion or a wolf or a dog
            or a cat scrambling to move a litter to higher ground. Now picture little kids in Sunday School singing “Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world….”

            While they are still singing, picture the little girls captured and kept alive as s*x slaves after watching their entire family
            slaughtered – grandparents, parents, married sisters, and little brothers each and every one murdered. “Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world….” Picture these
            little girls as the murderer of their family, now their owner,” rapes them. Remember that god specifically commanded “his
            people” to do this, exactly this, and they must not disobey.

            There are trees alive on earth today that were alive well before
            the world-wide flood that killed every living thing….

            Happy is he who seizes your infants and dashes them upon the rocks.

            The sun stood still in the sky. Imagine a child’s top spinning. Now imagine I told you that I have a top that
            just stopped spinning, froze in mid air, not moving, not falling, then started up again exactly where it left off a few minutes later. Try not to laugh

            You would kind of expect that the creator of all things would know that a bat is a mammal not a bird and a whale is a mammal not a fish.

            What Christians claim is the single most important event in
            the history of this planet happened on a Friday and the day of Passover (according to three inerrant sources) and on a Friday and the day before Passover (according to one inerrant source) in a year that cannot be determined because no single year fits all the so called facts without a contradiction. You would think they could at least get that one right, seeing how it’s kind of important.

            God’s priorities are warped. God has specific instructions for what clothes to wear but never once forbids slavery or rape. A woman is the property of her father until he sells her to her husband. She has no autonomy and no rights. Owning other human beings is fine.

            Women must never cut their hair.

            Penguins, snakes, koalas and more walked across continents
            and oceans to get to Noah’s magic boat, then walked back to where they came from when it was over.

            God murdered 40 children for laughing at a bald man.

            John the Baptist was related to Jesus, baptized Jesus, heard
            god call down from heaven that Jesus was Da Man, and later asked his disciples to go find out who this Jesus fellow was. “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”

            This is just a random sample of the immoral and absurd.

          • wandakate

            That’s a shame…JESUS is your only hope for the future. Without Him we’re all doomed.

          • Lark62

            Ooooh I’m scared.

          • Bruce Morrow

            Maybe we should apply your reasoning to the teaching of evolution nonsense and other forms of secular humanism that is forced upon anyone’s child then.

          • Lark62

            This theory successfully unifies every aspect of biology and the evidence for evolution is found in paleontology, embryology, genetics, and more. Which of these areas have you researched? What is the basis for your conclusion that the scientific theory supported by over 150 years of research by thousands and thousands of scientists is nonsense?

          • RobbieSDA

            Every bit as acceptable as forcing people to listen to the drone of humanist and secular tripe that is dumped on our kids every day in most public schools.

          • Bruce Morrow

            Poor little Paul Hiett poor man. :O

          • MelanieWaffle

            So you would allow a time of Muslim prayer at your school or having verses of the quaran (pardon my misspeling) read to your children but not having the Bible read at all?

          • wandakate

            My dog is very intelligent (she’s 6.5) and she would probably know that…

          • Bruce Morrow

            Funny how many PUBLIC schools promote Muslim prayers and Muslim religious practices. Funny how you seem to not mention that Paul. I think you and others like you have it out for Christians and all things Christian. Of course you will never be honest enough to admit that.

          • wandakate

            The breath of life only comes from one source and that source is GOD ALMIGHTY, no other place. Without it you’re not here anymore and neither will I be.

          • Lark62

            Choice means each and every student can read the religious material he or she chooses. Having religious material read to you daily whether you like it or not is a lot of things, but “choice” and “freedom” are not among them.

          • Abreka

            Historically this has been the freedom to convert or the freedom to burn at the stake.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Oh yeah? Are there a lot of Christian organizations out there standing up for the rights of atheists?

          • Bill

            Why do you think the founders who were mostly Christians gave you the Constitution as it was written? So you, e , and everybody else could have the freedom to choose. Think man, think!

          • Bill

            Think of it this way. If islam ever rules, you will be forced ( beheaded) to believe their way. If atheism ever rules you will be forced to do it their way. Under Christians, you can practice it or not……

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Or the ACLU.

          • Lgbpop

            They trample on mine, as well as upon the Constitution itself.

          • RobbieSDA

            Since the quoted scripture applies to multiple religions, it can not be said to establish a specific religion by being quoted. The TRUTH is that it is the even more basic issue of God versus no god. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that says that non-believers have the right to never hear about God or from those who believe in Him. Somehow Atheists think their non-belief can be enforced, while believers belief is somehow not acceptable. The whole idea of freedom FROM religion is patently in error. It is and always has been freedom OF religion. That means for a Bible verse to be quoted in one place, and humanist and other secular beliefs beings spoken at another.

          • Lark62

            I hear about christianity all time. There are crosses on every street corner in my town. So what. This isn’t a problem. You see all those protestors complaining about religious symbols on private property? Me neither, because out Constitution protects your exercise of religion.

            However, the Constitution says that no one – NO ONE – can use government authority to push religion. You can do whatever you want with your own time, money and property. You absolutely cannot use government property and authority (a public address system and laws requiring school attendance) to promote any religious viewpoint on a captive audience of kids. It’s illegal. It’s immoral. And it simply isn’t very nice.

          • Bruce Morrow

            Everyone but Christians he means.

          • Abreka

            Then donate to the ACLU.

          • wandakate

            You got 7 votes here besides me, so lets see if they all will do the same. Put your money where your mouth is (or your vote or comment) is.

          • Lgbpop

            Hey, dumbass – YOU are the minority. An obnoxious, vocal minority but a minority nonetheless. You have the right not to listen. Use it. Don’t try to forbid everyone else in the community from the opportunity to listen if they wish to do so.

          • Lark62

            Thanks for the kind, christian words. Having been a nonchristian for going on 10 years now, I truly appreciate the occassional reminder of what christian love, compassion and empathy really look like.

            I trust you understand that the entire purpose of the Bill of Rights is to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

            Every single student has the right to choose what religious literature they will read or listen to. Every single one. As Sandra Day O’Connor wrote, we don’t count heads before deciding whether to enforce the Bill of Rights.

            This means school employees cannot use school property to read religious literature to school kids. The exact same rules apply to the bible, the koran, the book of mormon, and The God Delusion. Religious indoctrination does not belong at school.

          • Bruce Morrow

            Hate to break it to you but the United States was founded as an CHRISTIAN nation, on the gospel of Jesus Christ.

          • Bruce Morrow

            That’s all these atheist/infidels seem to do is whine and complain on CHRISTIAN news sites. What wrong with that picture?

          • Lgbpop

            This principal didn’t force anyone to agree with what he said, either. There is no coercion here. God, get over yourself!

          • Bruce Morrow

            So you are claiming just because works for government that their religious freedom is null and void?

          • wandakate

            Just keep in mind that that may be the case according to man, but GOD has a judgment day coming and JESUS is the final judge, not the POTUS, not any other man or dictator or anybody else. JESUS is the only one that is capable of judging people.

        • Paul Hiett

          “Free Speech”

          You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

          • Bryan Koenig

            Yes it is you are wrong

          • Paul Hiett

            Using a public address system at a school to promote one’s own particular choice of religion is not protected under “free speech”.

            No, I’m right.

          • Bryan Koenig

            He only spoke the Word of God or The Bible it’s not only Christian but is Judaism as well & you are still wrong why don’t you swallow your pride a little freedom of religion & freedom of speech. True followers of Christ carry the gospel no matter what I’ll pray for you admit,believe & decide ? It’s up to you ?

          • The Last Trump

            And it’s ok that you think that. Isn’t that great?!
            See Paul, THAT’s what it means to have free speech in a Christian nation. God bless the Christian free thinkers of the world!

          • Paul Hiett

            And which Christian nation are you referring to? The US?

            You might want to read the Treaty of Tripoli.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            ” in a Christian nation”

            What country are you referring to? Obviously not the US, as the US is not a Christian nation.

        • Lark62

          The principal read from the holy book of one religious tradition daily for years. Yes, he used his taxpayer funded position to promote that one religion and only that religion. He used his government authority to tell a captive audience of children that his religion is the one correct one.

          • RobbieSDA

            You’re hilarious. Please tell me which one religious tradition the reading of a verse from the book of Psalms exclusively endorses? There are a multitude of religious traditions that would accept that verse as authoritative, or at the very least meaningful. The reality is that you are talking God verses no god. Ultimately, the religion of secular humanism (as determined by the Supreme Court) is freely promoted and indoctrinated into our children day after day, but a simple reading from the book of Proverbs once a day is a horrible violation. What about all those who don’t wish to hear the never ending attempts to convince our children that the God of creation doesn’t exist, whether directly or indirectly stated? You want a free pass for secularism (godlessness), but absolutely no exceptions for any other belief system that acknowledges God.

          • Lark62

            No teacher may tell students “god is a fairy tale.” No principal can read to students a daily quote from atheists saying that there is no god. If they were to do that, I would speak out against it. This is because I value the Constitution and will defend it.

        • Guzzman

          The issue of government endorsing religion was settled by the courts decades ago. The courts have ruled that employees working in local, state, or Federal government are prohibited from using their government positions to promote religion while acting in an official capacity. The Federal courts have REPEATEDLY made the distinction between government speech and private speech:

          Board of Education v. Mergens, 496 U.S.226 (1990): “There is a crucial difference between government speech endorsing religion, which the Establishment Clause forbids, and private speech endorsing religion, which the Free Speech and Free Exercise Clauses protect.”

          • Bill

            On February 29, 1892, the Supreme Court declared (in Holy Trinity v. United States) that the historical record of America overwhelmingly demonstrated that the United States “… is a Christian nation.” Justice David J. Brewer wrote the majority decision defending the historical evidence for the Christian founding of America in this important case. Thirteen years after this landmark decision, Justice Brewer penned this small book that amplified what he meant when he and the court declared that America was a Christian nation. Going beyond the historical influences of Christianity in the establishment and development of America as he did in the Holy Trinity vs. United States decision, Justice Brewer boldly called the nation to continue to allow the influences of biblical Christianity to inform all of America life.

          • Paul Hiett

            He also said, “But in what sense can it be called a Christian nation? Not in the sense
            that Christianity is the established religion or that people are in any
            matter compelled to support it. On the contrary, the Constitution
            specifically provides that ‘Congress shall make no law respecting an
            establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.’
            Neither is it Christian in the sense that all of its citizens are either
            in fact or name Christian. On the contrary, all religions have free
            scope within our borders. Numbers of our people profess other religions,
            and many reject all. Nor is it Christian in the sense that a profession
            of Christianity is a condition of holding office or otherwise engaging
            in public service, or essential to recognition either politically or
            socially. In fact, the government as a legal organization is independent
            of all religions.”

        • thoughtsfromflorida

          The principal, in his official capacity, does not have unlimited rights of free speech.

        • Rebus Caneebus

          An official religion for the school was not proclaimed. The speaker read a Bible verse.

          Abington v. Schempp (1963) was precisely about reading bible verses without comment during classtime.

          Unconstitutional. For over 50 years now.

      • The Last Trump

        And yet, they’ve always taken Christmas and Easter off for known and recognized holidays. How strange….

        • Aaron Springer

          Yule and Ostara? Or do you mean Winter Solstice and Spring Equinox?

          What, you thought Christians invented these holidays?

          • wandakate

            THANK YOU…I’m glad to see, happy in fact to see here that somebody else agrees with what I just wrote above this comment to The Last Trump person. That’s is by the way when JESUS will come at the Last Trumpet…Revelation 11:15-19, and even it tells us that the ark of the covenant will be see at that special awe inspiring time. It’s enlightening to know somebody knows the truth. We have something in common don’t we?

        • wandakate

          No not really. JESUS wasn’t born on December 25th so it’s not a holiday pertaining to JESUS, we just think it was. It was based on a pagan holiday, JESUS wasn’t born in the middle of the cold dead winter in the Holy Land. The shepherds put away their flock in October and left them there til the weather was warmer in the end of March (like right now). As for Easter, JESUS was already risen when the two Mary’s got to the tomb, He was gone. If from Friday around 3 pm (said to be when CHRIST died) until before Sunday morning 3 days and 3 nights? NO, it is only a day and a half. We must do the math. JESUS died not on Friday but on a Wednesday. There were I found (lots of research and reading and comparing in Greek) two Sabbath days that week. JESUS died on Passover, the week of Passover, not Easter (which is a man-made word). There were 2 Sabbath days that week ( John tells us it was a High Holy Day) in scripture. There had to be 2 preparation days that week in order for there to be 2 Sabbaths. One Sabbath was an annual Sabbath called a High Holy Day and the other a regular Sabbath on the usual Saturday. He died on Wednesday the day before the HHD. They wanted the bodies off the cross before the sun went down.
          GOD starts our day at sunset, not at midnight (man’s time). So, He was actually in the tomb from Wed. around 3 pm until before sunrise on the following Sunday which was the day past the weekly Sabbath day. The bible says the two women went to the tomb on the 1st day of the week (Sunday) and He was already risen (gone). So, there were 2 Sabbaths that week, meaning he “did not” die on Good Friday, and He didn’t arise “at” sunrise on the 1st day. He was already gone…
          If schools let them off on those 2 man-made holidays it’s what they do as they are public worldly schools and they don’t honor Christian day (which were the festival of the LORD). Hope this clears that up.

          • Aaron Springer

            //The bible says the two women went to the tomb//

            Or one.
            John 20:1

            Or three.
            Mark 16:1

            Or at least five, maybe more.
            Luke 24:1, 10

      • Guest

        Actually, Christianity is the official religion of the US.

        • Paul Hiett

          And what law supports your claim?

          • Guest

            All of them.

          • Paul Hiett

            Ah, so none of them. Gotcha.

          • Guest

            Your mother

          • Paul Hiett

            OMG…not the dreaded “your mother” response!!!!

            But…but…that hurts so much!!!! Oh no, whatever will I do!!!! The ever mature and respected Regina Forbes just insulted me on the internet!!!!! Oh noes…

          • Lark62

            Let me get out my crying towel. Being subjected to such a witty and intelligent response must be painful. Or not.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Oh, Guest got you really good with that one. What will you do now?

          • Paul Hiett

            ROFL…she got banned, which is why her account says “guest” now.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            That’s hilarious. She probably thought she was in safe territory, so anything she said would be received well by the mods, no matter how obnoxious or childish.

        • Lark62

          WOW. Please show me where in the US Constitution christianity is mentioned. I recommend a remedial civics class.

          • Bill

            If you actually knew anything abut the signers of the Constitution, you’d know they were for the most part, Christians. If you actually knew anything about Christianity, you’d know the Constitution is for the most part taken from scripture. If you would only get your info from somewhere besides atheist websites, you’d know the truth…..but you wont. The hate is too great. Which reminds me of a quote by a famous atheist. “The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer.”

            – Albert Einstein

          • Paul Hiett

            The constitution is now taken from scripture. I’ve heard it all now…

          • Bill

            I assume your a “reasonable” person, right?

          • Lark62

            Yet they intentionally left any and every mention of christianity out of the Constitution.

        • thoughtsfromflorida

          Wow. I didn’t know that. Where is that officially stated?

      • wandakate

        If its a Private School they can do what they wish, or if it is a Christian School. It’s only the public schools that are restricted by the government.

    • Guzzman

      Public schools are government entities and are therefore subject to the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause prohibiting government sponsorship of religion. A school official using a school PA system to blast religious broadcasts to students is a blatant violation of the Constitution.

      The Supreme Court has already ruled on this very issue in Santa Fe v. Doe (2001): “School sponsorship of a religious message is impermissible because it sends the ancillary message to members of the audience who are non-adherents that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community.”

      The school will most certainly lose this case and waste thousands of dollars of taxpayer money in the process.

      • Lgbpop

        You obviously know only the first half of the First Amendment. Its religion clause, IN FULL, states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…”

        First off, a local school system is NOT Congress. Secondly, even if it were, according the the second phrase of that clause which you leftists are so fond of overlooking – NO ONE can prohibit the free exercise of religion on anyone’s part. For you to try to do so is in direct violation of the First Amendment.

        Take your knot-twisted panties and go wring your hands to someone who cares.

        • Guzzman

          You are mistaken – public schools are covered by the U.S. Constitution. The school principal is a government employee. The 14th Amendment extended limitations on Federal powers to ALL levels of government. As a result, no Federal, state, or local government has any grant of authority to speak for its citizens on religious matters. The Supreme Court has REPEATEDLY ruled that government speech endorsing religion is prohibited.

          Board of Education v. Mergens, 496 U.S.226 (1990): “There is a crucial difference between government speech endorsing religion, which the Establishment Clause FORBIDS, and private speech endorsing religion, which the Free Speech and Free Exercise Clauses protect.”

          • Lgbpop

            Nonsense. EVERYONE is covered under the Constitution. Schools are NOT Congress. A casual remark made inside a school building does nothing more to establish religion than farting in the grocery store. Moreover, you STILL ignore the other phrase in that clause! – the government can NOT stop someone from the free exercise of their religion, THAT is codified. A principal quoting a verse from Scripture inside a school is not establishing religion, and he has every right to say what he wants to say. Freedom of speech extends to ALL speech.

            Good Lord, give us a break. You people are insane.

          • Guzzman

            You are clearly wrong and the school is virtually guaranteed to lose this case. Those who work in local, state, or Federal government cannot lawfully use their government positions to promote religion while acting in an official capacity. It is settled case law. The Federal courts have repeatedly made the distinction between government speech and private speech about religion.

          • TomMaureen Benghazi Saufley

            There is no “supremacy clause.” The intention behind the 14th amendment, which has been twisted totally beyond anything for which it was intended, was to declare the Constitution supreme over any man-made attempts to contort it. In other words, Congress shall make no law, and no one shall prevent the FREE exercise thereof ….. study the Constitution, the founding fathers, their letters, etc. Don’t just google or rely on Wikipedia for your info.

          • Paul Hiett

            I think you fail to understand that public schools are run by the government; their employees are government employees. A public school cannot promote religion, period.

            A school administrator or teacher cannot, under law, force anyone to listen to prayers. Not from your religion, their religion, or any religion.

            This is a simple law, which for some reason you folks seem to have a hard time grasping.

          • MelanieWaffle

            Take it from me arguing any firther will be a precious waste of your time. There is only so much you can do. Before you realize people don’t listen.

          • Guzzman

            Your interpretation of the 14th Amendment is irrelevant. A virtually identical case came before the Supreme Court in 1963. Reading Bible verses to a captive audience of public school students violates the U.S. Constitution.

            “Because of the prohibition of the First Amendment against the enactment by Congress of any law ‘respecting an establishment of religion,’ which is made applicable to the States by the Fourteenth Amendment, no state law or school board may require that passages from the Bible be read or that the Lord’s Prayer be recited in the public schools of a State at the beginning of each school day — even if individual students may be excused from attending or participating in such exercises upon written request of their parents.” School District of Abington Township, Pennsylvania v. Schempp (1963) Pp. 205-227.

          • Eric Estes

            Tell that to the Muslims who are actuall promoting Islam and taking over the U.S. By Sharia law. Those are the you need to complain against. Your complaints should be leveled at the Federal and State government for purposely allowing Islam to take over your country and will eventually make you a Muslim, or cut your head off. You waste your time going after Christians who are your true friends while allowing your real enemies to take control of the country.

          • Rebus Caneebus

            Tell that to the Muslims who are actuall promoting Islam and taking over the U.S. By Sharia law.

            Which Muslims? Name names, don’t just throw out vague accusations.

            Those are the you need to complain against.

            I complain against ALL who violate the constitution, including this bible-quoting principal.

            Your complaints should be leveled at the Federal and State government for purposely allowing Islam to take over your country and will eventually make you a Muslim, or cut your head off.

            Again, details are needed instead of vague accusations. What, specifically, are you talking about?

          • Guzzman

            No religious group should be armed with the force of law. We fought a revolutionary war to break away from a Christian Monarch, King George III. The founding fathers were done with theocracy. That is why we have “separation between religion and & Gov’t in the Constitution of the United States”, to quote James Madison (Detached Memoranda, 1820).

          • Bruce Morrow

            Such a concept of “separation between religion and government” is NOT in the United States Constitution.

          • Guzzman

            No one ever said the words “separation between religion and government” are in the Constitution. Neither are the terms “freedom of religion” or “separation of powers” or “checks and balances”, but all of those principles are clearly present.

            Jefferson and Madison explicitly wrote that the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause places religion and government into separate domains, one does not have any grant of authority over the other. James Madison (Founding Father and framer of the U.S. Constitution) wrote in 1820, the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment provides a “separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States” and Jefferson said it erected a “wall of separation between church and state.” Those are solid, authoritative declarations from the two most prominent founding fathers. The Supreme Court has authoritatively and repeatedly sided with the founders.

            Your side lost that battle a long, long time ago.

          • Guzzman

            The school superintendent finally admitted that Christians are not above the law after all. Apology accepted.

            “White Oak ISD: No more ‘chapter and verse’ from Bible”:

            http://www.news-journal.com/ne

          • chiefwarrantofficer

            Nope, just don’t want YOU to make religious decisions for the children in that school. Or to deliberatelt break the law and expect to get away with it by trying to wrap the package of garbage up as a ‘freedom’ right.

      • hernan cadut

        Guzzman… let me ask you, people like you seemed pissed off by the quotation from the book of Proverbs, what do you see in these verses that pose danger to people like you, or threat to young minds?

        • Rebus Caneebus

          The unconstitutional pushing of religion in public schools. I prefer school officials who obey the law of the land.

          • Bruce Morrow

            What “law” should they be “obeying”?

          • Rebus Caneebus

            What “law” should they be “obeying”?

            Case law established by Abington v. Schempp (1963)

        • Guzzman

          I find it offensive that two government employees, a public school principal and superintendent, are thumbing their noses at the U.S. Constitution. These individuals are poor role models.

          The first amendment of the Constitution prevents religion from being armed with the force of law. We fought a bloody revolutionary war to break away from a Christian Monarch, King George III. The founding fathers wished to avoid the “ceaseless strife” caused by theocracy. That is why we have “separation between religion & Gov’t in the Constitution of the United States”, to quote James Madison (Detached Memoranda, 1820).

          • Bruce Morrow

            Again Mr.Guzzman there is NO statement in the US Constitution that reads “separation of religion and government”. None.

          • Rebus Caneebus

            Again Mr.Guzzman there is NO statement in the US Constitution that reads “separation of religion and government”. None.

            Irrelevant. The principal’s actions are the same as in Abington v. Schempp, where reading bible verses without comment during classtime was struck down as unconstitutional.

            PS: There’s also no “freedom of religion”, “right to a fair trial”, or “separation of powers” literally in the constitution either.

    • thoughtsfromflorida

      So you support a public school principal, at a school that serves all students of all faiths – as well as no faith – and is funded by taxpayers of all faiths – as well as no faith – forcing the Christian faith on students?

      Are you praying that the constitution of the US be thrown out and replaced by a Christian Theocracy?

    • Abreka

      Does that mean you’ll donate to the district when they lose a lawsuit and have to use taxpayer dollars to pay court costs to the plaintiff?

    • Joe Soap

      Easy to say when you’re not paying the costs of litigation. Or can they send you the bill?

      • TheBBP

        The Superintendent isn’t some kid who was talked into doing something that he shouldn’t. He is well aware of the consequences. I am very proud of him.

        • Patti

          The consequences will be the school district loses a lot of money it could have used to educate it’s children as well as losing the case itself. And though Christians might have a feel good moment out of all the hoopla, to non-Christians they merely come off as bullies trying to use laws on mandatory schooling to indoctrinate the children of other faiths or of no faith. This Superintendent has sown strive in his district, will cost them a lot of money, and has given Christianity a black eye. Maybe you still think he’s a good soldier for Christ, but he’s not a good employee of the school district.

          • TheBBP

            The only people who think that this man is giving Christianity a “black eye” are those who already hate Christianity. Christians aren’t called to stand quietly in the corner. and this man has done well to stand strong in his faith. He is aware of the consequences.

          • Patti

            I was referring to his giving Christianity a black eye among NONbelievers, the very people your religion tells you to try to bring to Christ, not chase away. A lot of believers will hail him as a hero, but what’s the point of preaching to the choir?

            Nobody has told this man he can’t worship or spread the word on his own time. But a condition of his employment is to realize that non-Christians as well as Christians are entrusting him with their children and the deal is he not use his position to try to endocrine them with a religion their parents may not belong to and may even object to.

            Actually, he could even legally read some Bible verses over the loudspeaker if he’d also pick a few inspirational passages from other religious or nonreligious works and not give any faith precedence over another. That is, he could read an inspirational Hindu piece on one day, a secular piece on another, something from the Koran the next day, and a Bible verse on one day. That would even be highly educational as he’d be giving children a smattering of texts from a wide range of influential works. But he is clearly using his position as principle to promote Christianity (and to a lesser extent Judaism). And then if non-Christians object, you act like Christianity is being persecuted.

            BTW, if this man is aware of the consequences as you’ve said, then is he willing to pay for the legal costs by himself? Or is he standing his ground at the community’s expense?

    • Mr. David

      I hope that this superintendent inspire others. This nation was founded upon Judean-Christian principles. Way to go Mr. Superintendent! I know a funny and humorous ebook about the “Atheist Church” Everyone who gets a copy is surely to get a great big belly laugh. Check it out at: http://www.goodbooklets.net

    • wandakate

      There was an old song form the hymnal at church…Stand up, stand up for JESUS, ye soldiers of the cross. Lift high your royal banner, it must not suffer lost. From victory unto victory His army shall He lead, till every soul is vanquished and CHRIST is LORD indeed…Amen to the superintendent. You stand strong in the times of Christian persecution. We are united in the word. We die for our faith if that’s what it takes, but don’t back down. If we back down, they will win and all the victory and glory will go to satan and his demons. JESUS told us that we have already won the fight…PTL.

    • Guzzman

      I guess prayer has been shown not to work yet again. The school superintendent finally admitted that Christians are not above the law after all.

      “White Oak ISD: No more ‘chapter and verse’ from Bible”:

      http://www.news-journal.com/news/2015/mar/15/white-oak-isd-no-more-chapter-and-verse-from-bible/

      • Patti

        There’ll still be a “Thought for the Day” which as long as he keeps it religion-neutral could be a good thing. Actually, there’s nothing wrong with out and out Bible quotes as long as it’s balanced out with readings from other religious books as well, so as not use his position to favor one religion over another – but that can be a tough balancing act for a true believer.

        Anyway, I’m glad they resolved the conflict without an expensive court battle. School districts need to use their resources on educating our children. We’re already woefully behind other industrialized countries.

        • Guzzman

          Yes, I believe a secular version of “Thought of the Day” is workable. I’m more of a purist though when it comes to separating religion and government. The accommodationist approach just seems to turn our schools and courthouses and other government facilities into religious circuses. When I go to the courthouse to probate a will, I don’t want to have to wade through a bunch of religious stalkers to get to the elevator.

          • Patti

            When I commented he could quote from a Bible as long as he gave equal time to other religious books, I think that would be an approach that does keep government and religion separate. That is, the Bible would be treated as one of many influential books and children would be introduced to a smattering of thoughts from various disciplines But the trouble is that a very religious person would have a lot of trouble not showing favoritism to his own religion. Thus the “Thought of the Day” is a better solution for the parties involved.

            I wonder if very religious people are even capable of teaching a course on comparative religion. That is, can a devout person of any faith be objective.

          • Guzzman

            I have not made a study of whether deeply religious people can be objective when it comes to learning about or understanding belief systems other than their own. I do know that many of the founding fathers were devout Christians, and yet they were able to transcend personal theologies and produce a breathtakingly secular Constitution. I find it deeply disturbing that so many people of faith would now seek to undermine this great accomplishment. That is why we must remain forever vigilant and thwart any attempt to arm religion with the force of law.

          • Patti

            Washington, Jefferson and Franklin were more Diest than Christian. Jefferson even referred to Christianity as “our particular superstition” if I recall from reading a book on him.

            And Patrick Henry was more of a fundamentalist Christian. There was somewhat of a conflict between him and Jefferson on how much influence religion should have in the new government. Jefferson and his fellow Diests won.

            Jon Meacham wrote an excellent book on all this, The American Gospel. You’d be surprised to find out how long our “culture wars” have gone on.

          • chiefwarrantofficer

            I was on jury duty in January this year and one of the selected jury members wanted to pray before we started our deliberations as well as have everyone ‘vote’ by raising their hand as we made decisions on each of the several charges.

            Look shocked when several said ‘we can take a moment to let you step outside and pray’ to the first suggestion and ‘we already have these slips for voting’ to the other.

      • TheBBP

        Prayers work fine. Sometimes the answer is not what we like. That is how it goes.

  • Better AndBetter

    And when muslims do the same thing, these same hypocrites will start raising hell.

    • Lark62

      This area of Texas is largely southern baptist. SB’s firmly believe that catholic prayers to saints are idolotry and morally wrong.

      I would love to see the reaction if the principal provided daily guidance about which saint to pray to for different problems. Imagine if a teacher taught her students to pray to a saint before tests.

      Why do we have to go to court to get christians to follow the golden rule and treat others how they would want to be treated?

      • chiefwarrantofficer

        Because they really don’t follow any of those teachings and never have?

    • Abreka

      It already happened when Satanists tried to get the same rights offered to Christians in Florida.

  • Rebus Caneebus

    The superintendent is violating longstanding court opinions; he will not only lose a court fight, he’ll lose at least $100,000 in legal fees awarded to the plaintiffs.

    Religious rights are very important, and the superintendent is violating those rights of the students.

  • gregkliebigsr

    THANK YOU MR. SUPERINTENDENT FOR STANDING UP FOR THE LORD JESUS !
    IT IS A SAD DAY WHEN WE AMERICANS WHO LOVE THE LORD JESUS HAVE TO ARGUE WITH BALD FACED LIARS AND FOOLS !

    THE HUMAN PERSON JESUS CHRIST CAN NOT BE DENIED: THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH HISTORY DOCUMENTED ABIUT OUR LORD’S LIFE!

    SO, ANYBODY SAYING DIFFERENT IS A BALD FACE LIAR AND A FOOL !!! YET, JESUS CAME AND DIED FOR THEMM !! LOVE !!

    • Paul Hiett

      So, as long as he “stands up” for Christians, that’s good…just have to make sure no other religions are tolerated, right?

  • Solly Llama

    I expect a lawsuit will be filed, which the school district will lose. There is ample precedent for exactly this sort of thing.

  • Psygn

    I’m confident these issues will be cleared up by the courts.

    • Lark62

      The Supreme Court decisions go back over 50 years. Schools cannot promote one religious viewpoint or lead children in prayer to one god or promote teachings from one religious book. This is because Every.Single.Child has the right to attend public school without being indoctrinated by school employees into the employee’s preferred beliefs.

      This protects your choldren too.

  • The Last Trump

    Funny how “the practice goes back to the 1970s” but is ONLY NOW deemed problematic. Because we’re so morally upright today, right? Yeah, that’s what I see when I turn on my television or look out my window. What a joke. What depravity.

    The world is coming apart at the seams and anything that reminds people of their sin has to be abolished, so as to not ruin their “good time”! Hard to believe sometimes just how assbackwards things have become in such a short time. And yet, the wilfully blind have actually talked themselves into believing that things are getting “better” despite the ugly picture right before their very eyes.

    Folks might want to stop and consider what it was that made us great once upon a time, before they continue on in this destructive path, uprooting and discarding the traditions and beliefs that served us SO WELL and FOR SO LONG. And honour the God that BLESSED US SO RICHLY.

    Or not. How we doing so far, now that we’ve put God “to death”?
    Incidentally, “I support Dan Noll and White Oak School” too. 🙂

    • Paul Hiett

      If you wish your children to be raised in a Christian environment, send them to a Christian school.

      What’s wrong with that?

      • chiefwarrantofficer

        Or they could actually start living a christian life and demonstrating what that is – and it is not forcing their religion on others.

    • Solly Llama

      People had a problem with religion in the schools back in the 70s. Bible Reading in Schools was officially declared unconstitutional in 1963 by the Supreme Court in Abington School District v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203. It was an 8:1 decision.

      • The Last Trump

        You’re exactly right. Many scholars see the 1960s and 70s as the time the United States began its decline.
        Thank you for pointing that out. Perhaps its not too late to go back to the things that made America great in the first place and stop this destructive path she is on to become the opposite of her former, glorious self. God can still bless the United States of America like He has before when her citizens USED TO ASK HIM TO. 🙁

        • Solly Llama

          Ending state sponsored religion in the schools was a step forward. This school district is trying to take a step backward. They will lose in court, and will have to shoulder the cost of the lawyers for both sides. Jesus told people to do their praying in private so not only is this principal violating the law, he’s making Baby Jesus cry. Have a nice day.

          • The Last Trump

            And then He taught the multitude to pray the Lord’s Prayer out in the open and on a mountain side. Go figure.
            Nah, God wouldn’t want America to teach her children to pray like she once did when she was considered “a shining city on a hill,” a country blessed beyond compare by the God she honoured. The troubled youth of today are much better off without morality and thankfulness holding them back in our “step forward” as you put it.
            And a nice day for you as well.

          • Paul Hiett

            You can choose to believe that the US is a “Christians only” country, but that will never make it so.

            We’re a country made up of people of all cultures, races, and faiths. No one religion has precedent over another in this country. Furthermore, any claim that Christianity is “under attack” is a lie, or just plain ignorance on your part.

            Christians are and have been trying to assert their religion everywhere we go, and only get upset when they aren’t allowed to force others to endure their constant evangelizing. In fact, there isn’t a “Christian” in America today that knows what real persecution is.

          • Solly Llama

            This is what Sunday School is for. Violating the US Constitution should be avoided by public servants. It’s proved to be very expensive and always fails.

        • chiefwarrantofficer

          Glorious self? When “she’ raped and pillaged her way across an entire continent disregarding the millions who already lived there? That ‘glorious” self?

          The ‘glorious self’ that did not abide by hundreds of thousands of treaties it had swone to uphold?

  • bkltx

    There is no constitutionally protected right to freedom FROM religion.

    • Paul Hiett

      Yes there is, it’s called Freedom Of Religion.

      • bkltx

        Right… freedom OF religion, Paul. Not freedom FROM religion. Our country has gone all backwards on this, but the truth is, the constitution does not give you the right not to ever see anyone practicing their religion. If that were the case, no one would have the right to practice their religion.

        • Paul Hiett

          That’s not what it addresses. It means you can’t force me to live by your religious laws. It means you can’t force me to swear on a Bible in court, or force my children into prayer at school.

          Freedom of Religion guarantees you the right to worship whatever religion you want. However, that right ends where mine begins.

          Now do you understand?

        • Abreka

          OF and FROM are different words and your focus on them is misplaced. You need to understand the concepts. Freedom of religion means that you can worship any religion you want. Freedom from religion means that you will never be compelled to worship a particular deity or in a particular way. Tell me if you are forced to worship Odin by government officials, do you have true freedom of religion … especially if your faith says you cannot worship false gods?

        • Rebus Caneebus

          Right… freedom OF religion, Paul. Not freedom FROM religion.

          Neither the phrase “freedom OF religion” nor “freedom FROM religion” occur in the US constitution.

          Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

    • Abreka

      Except for the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America. And the part about no religious litmus tests.

    • thoughtsfromflorida

      Since the government is strictly prohibited from establishing a religion, there most certainly is a protected right to freedom from religion.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Apparently there is. Oh look, a Supreme Court ruling that is perfectly on point to this issue, holding this very practice unconstitutional.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_Independent_School_District_v._Doe

      • Rebus Caneebus

        Actually, Abington v. Schempp (1963) is more on point, as that was precisely about reading bible verses without comment during classtime — exactly as here.

  • Bryan Koenig

    Only a FOOL says in his heart, there is no God.

    • Lark62

      I can quote bible verses too. I tend to quote the ones christians pretend don’t exist.

      • Bill

        “pretend they don’t exist”…….which means you don’t have a clue what your saying…… You atheists are persistent, I’ll give you that much….

        • Lark62

          The biblical guide to happiness. “Happy is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” Ps 137:9

          Let the tap dancing begin, while calls of “God said it. I believe it. That settles it.” go strangely silent.

          Having read the bible (the whole thing), I find biblical morality sick. It is a myth about a capricious and evil god. You will not teach my children that the bible is true or that it provides any basis for morality.

      • Paul Hiett

        Like this one…

        1 Corinthians 14:34-35King James Version (KJV)

        34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

        35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

      • Bryan Koenig

        Amen let’s all quote the Bible just as long as we obey them

    • Abreka

      And he who denies Odin shall have no place in Valhalla.

      • Paul Hiett

        And to be truthful…if I had to pick from any religion, that’s the direction I’d go in a heartbeat!

      • Bryan Koenig

        What is odin & valhalla ?

      • Bryan Koenig

        Please come to Jesus Christ?

    • lynn

      In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

  • WorldGoneCrazy

    Good show, White Oak, Texas! Now, in the interest of equal time for the a-theists, I give you The A-theist Creed, which could be read over the loudspeaker too:

    “I, an a-theist, pray to the god who is not there, but whom I am mad as He.. well, am mad at, ya know. And I affirm:
    1. That the universe miraculously popped into existence out of nothing uncaused by anything.
    2. That life magically sprang forth from non-life when lightning hit some mud.
    3. That minds and morals evolved from molecules through monkeys – magically.
    4. That there is no god and I hate Him!

    I pray this, in the name of my narcissism. A-boys!”

    • Paul Hiett

      I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.

      Susan B. Anthony

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell.” — CS Lewis

        • Paul Hiett

          Never fight a man with his Bible, for it be his shield against reason.
          – Charles Darwin

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science.” — Charles Darwin

    • Solly Llama

      WGC, there is no atheist creed.

      Atheism is a religion like an empty glass is a cocktail.

      See how that works?

      It is also worth mentioning that everything you listed as items 1-4 are complete rubbish.

      • Paul Hiett

        My favorite is, “Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.”

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Solly, you are dangerously mistaken: a-theism is a belief system just as theism is. Only in kindergarten a-theism is it defined as a “lack of belief in God.” Whether you realize it or not, you most certainly do share a burden of proof, as the intellectual a-theists of the past knew so well. Here is a primer for you: https://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2014/12/25/is-the-definition-of-atheism-a-lack-of-belief-in-god-3/

        Please note the Stanford University definition versus the whiny childish one that you are accustomed to hearing on the blogs: “I lack belief, I lack belief!” The problem with such a definition is that you could very well lack belief in God even when He exists! What kind of definition is that?!? It is not a definition, but a measure of one’s psychological condition. And, it is immensely disingenuous, not to mention quite dangerous to society.

        You write: “It is also worth mentioning that everything you listed as items 1-4 are complete rubbish.”

        Wow – what a fine intellectual response! How lucky I am to have left my a-theist brethren behind before they turned into the cult fanatics of New A-theism! God bless you, Solly!

        • Solly Llama

          “rubbish” in the sense that they are not beliefs ascribed to atheists. As the term implies, atheists lack a belief in a god. Some may go further and insist that god doesn’t exist, but that’s something different – it’s an affirmative claim which cannot ever logically be proved anymore than your belief that Shiva doesn’t exist. Or Vishnu. Or Odin. We both lack the belief in hundreds if not thousands of gods, and in that respect we are very similar. I just lack the belief in one more than you. all that other stuff you listed are not the beliefs of atheists. they are non-argument strawmen people like you try to ascribe to atheists. good luck with that. meanwhile, I’ll be sure to remind you of this conversation when the principal is schooled by the court and the school district foots the bill.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Solly, did you even read the link?!? The statement “I lack belief in God” is nothing more than a claim about your psychological state. If that were the definition of a-theism (and it is not), then a-theism could be true even when God exists! In other words, you, Solly, could lack belief in God even when He exists, just as there are people who lack belief in the manned lunar landings even though they happened. Do you really not see this?!? It is really a kindergarten a-theism that bears no resemblance to the true a-theists of the past.

            “Some may go further and insist that god doesn’t exist, but that’s something different”

            That is true a-theism. You are at best an agnostic and at worst a disingenuous a-theist who likes to sit back and take shots at others while providing no evidence for your worldview.

            “We both lack the belief in hundreds if not thousands of gods, and in that respect we are very similar. I just lack the belief in one more than you.”

            Yes, but you believe in 3 more mega-miracles than I do! (See the list above.)

            “all that other stuff you listed are not the beliefs of atheists. they are non-argument strawmen people like you try to ascribe to atheists.”

            I lack belief in your claims here. Prove them. See?!? God bless you, Solly!

          • Solly Llama

            Re the link: argument from authority fallacy. I don’t need someone else to explain to me my position on the subject of any god’s existence. I’m the authority on me, thank you very much. I lack a belief in all of the gods. I lack belief in almost as many gods as you, WGC. There is only one god difference between me and you, and 1000s of similarities. http://machineslikeus.com/news/global-gods

            My worldview is mine. I’m either lying or not. I can’t prove to you I”m not lying – you just have to take me at my word. I accept that you have the beliefs you have. I ask you to accept that I lack them.

            I’ve already told you that your list is rubbish, in that it doesn’t describe the positions of atheists generally, nor me specifically.

            Christians believe the universe was created from nothing because Goddidit.

            Christians believe that humans came from mud because Goddidit.

            As for the origins of morality – that is relative. Personally, anyone who needs a book to tell them how to be a decent person makes me worried.

            “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is very nice, but isn’t unique to the Bible, nor did it begin there. Sadly, a lot of people talk that talk, but they don’t walk that walk.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “Re the link: argument from authority fallacy. ”

            And then you send a link back to me – what a colossal hypocrite! It is NOT an argument from authority fallacy to educate you on the proper philosophical definition for a-theism: the belief that there is no god. What are they teaching the children in school these days if it is not logic?!?

            I see that you did NOT address the clear point I made: that if the definition of a-theism is that “you lack belief in God,” then a-theism can be true even when God exists, just as you could “lack belief in the manned lunar landings” (some do!) even when they happened. In which case, your “a-theism” is nothing more than a claim about your mental condition. Why are you arguing so much about your mental condition?!? 🙂

            “Christians believe the universe was created from nothing because Goddidit.”

            A-theists believe that nothing created everything out of nothing! Who is the blind faith religious nut here?!?

            “Christians believe that humans came from mud because Goddidit.”

            A-theists believe that humans came from mud because – magic! Who is the blind faith gullible one here?!?

            Please do some reading up on the a-theists of the past, like Bertrand Russell, who was one of my faves in my BC days. God bless you, Solly!

          • Paul Hiett

            Atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in any deity. It does not single out your version of a deity,or any other. It’s not a religion, by any stretch of the imagination.

            And to address your point, it’s highly doubtful an atheist would remain atheist if a religion could prove itself true.

            I could turn around and claim that you’d remain a Christian even if Islam were proven to be true.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Paul, you are a kindergarten a-theist. Grow up. Theism is the claim that God exists. A-theism is the claim that God does not exist. The childish “I lack belief in a God” is a measure of your psychological condition, since you could lack belief in God even when He exists. If you are holding Christians to the burden that they have to provide proof for God, then you are intellectually dishonest in claiming that you do not have to share a burden of proof for the No God Hypothesis.

            I will turn the tables on you to show you how immature your view is, by adopting your same intellectual dishonesty:

            “And to address your point, it’s highly doubtful an atheist would remain atheist if a religion could prove itself true.”

            I lack belief in your claim. Prove it.

            “I could turn around and claim that you’d remain a Christian even if Islam were proven to be true.”

            I lack belief in your claim. Prove it.

            See how it works, Paul, or are you just going to continue to whine “I lack belief, I lack belief!”?!? The Stanford University Encyclopedia of Philosophy, or any other scholarly source, is a very good starting place. I provided the link above. It’s amazing to me that New A-theists, like yourself, actually consider themselves to be rational or intelligent when they continue to use kindergarten definitions for a-theism and not reputable scholarly ones. Weird how you guys don’t like serious science or philosophy.

          • Solly Llama

            My link is an historic list of gods – past and present It is not someone attempting to define for me my views. Posting a list of all the gods in whom we lack a belief (with the understanding there is at least one on that list in which you believe,) is not comparable to you posting someone else’s definition of atheism.

            lacking a belief in god is separate from the hypothetical existence of god. yes, one could lack a belief in a god that existed. however, because there is no evidence that supports the purported existence of any god, there is no reason to have any belief in a god. if there were evidence supporting the existence of a god, there would be no need for faith.

            Atheists do not believe what you say they do. Atheists are defined by the belief they lack – not the beliefs they have.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “is not comparable to you posting someone else’s definition of atheism.”

            I posted a scholarly definition, with source, for a-theism. You continue to persist in kindergarten a-theism. Weird how a-theists do not care for scholarly peer-reviewed sources.

            “however, because there is no evidence that supports the purported existence of any god, there is no reason to have any belief in a god.”

            No evidence? Except for the Kalam Cosmological Argument supported by Big Bang cosmology, the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, positive inflationary rate, BGV Theorem, plus the Moral Argument, teleology via cosmic fine-tuning, galactic and planetary habitable zones, DNA and complex biomolecular machinery, the argument from consciousness, and the argument from mathematics, amongst others, then, yes, there are “no” evidences for the existence of God. 🙂

            “Atheists do not believe what you say they do.”

            In peer-reviewed scholarly sources, they most certainly do! I see you did not address the something from nothing and the life from non-life issues?!?

            “Atheists are defined by the belief they lack – not the beliefs they have.”

            And that, right there, shows the intellectually dishonesty of your position! You refuse to admit that a-theism is a worldview and has beliefs. Yet you come onto a Christian site to argue with those who believe that theism best explains the universe?!? If you didn’t have any beliefs, why on earth, would you be arguing with those who do?!? What nonsense! You have been out-ed – thank you for doing my work for me. God bless, Solly!

  • Chosm

    it is a lawsuite over nothing. protection of minority rights? proverbs is from the bible but every culture and religion believe in the same tenet. whether it is expressed in one way (Christian) or another, those who have belief in God should not complain. as a parent i will certainly not complain about my children being taught the right moral standard. if atheists are complaining then it is because they are narrow minded and have time on their hand. they ought to fight the real issues and not cause burden to everyone else for own intolerances and lack of understanding. life is short and there is much good that can be done.

    • Solly Llama

      I think it is important for public servants to follow the law. Since reading the Bible to a captive audience of schoolchildren is a violation of the law, the principal should stop it.

      • The Last Trump

        Yes we don’t want that darn Bible civilizing our children now do we?
        Not when Hollywood is doing such a bang up job of it.

        • Solly Llama

          Teach the Bible in private school. What part of this aren’t you getting?

        • chiefwarrantofficer

          But you do want them to learn about all that raping and stoning and killing, right?

      • Chosm

        i don’t disagree.
        in the end the question would be how do the kids feels about it. do they feel oppressed because of it. my opinion is not many kids care. it is the odd parent who may object and organizations that have own agenda. i am not speaking about the hypothetical impact to kids but actual , verifiable. If it is not an issue to the main stakeholders (ie. the kids) then why make it an issue and waste everyone’s time.

        I don’t know enough about the law to argue whether principle is breaking it.

        • Solly Llama

          The principal absolutely is breaking the law. The law on this subject is very clear. Parents have a right to send their children to a public school where there will be no religious indoctrination. The parents ARE the stakeholders.

    • Paul Hiett

      Regardless of your personal opinion, it’s breaking the law. You’d be going nuts out of your mind if the Principal were singing the Muslim call to prayer over the intercom.

      Perspective…

      • The Last Trump

        Just wait…coming soon! Just ask Duke and UCLA!
        (You’re gonna love your turban dude.)

        • Paul Hiett

          Duke and UCLA…both schools that did not allow a public call to prayer over their loudspeakers. Duke, however, continues to allow bells to be chimed for Christian purposes.

          Did you have something else to post that I can destroy quite easily as well?

          • The Last Trump

            Hee hee! “Did you have something else to post that I can destroy quite easily as well?” You’re killin’ me Paul! A legend in your own mind, eh?

            “Duke and UCLA…both schools that did not allow a public call to prayer over their loudspeakers.” Is that right?!

            Let’s review, shall we forgetful one? (Do your own research folks. I’d let the Internet with its links to headlines and articles be my source of news over what Christian website trolling Paul declares! 🙂

            Paul: “First, Duke isn’t doing that. I guess you conveniently forgot to link all the articles that reported on Duke reversing that decision”

            Duke was absolutely GOING to do that. Until they were STOPPED in their tracks for attempting to do what is clearly promoting support for Islam. As even Paul is forced to admit that they were forced TO REVERSE their decision. Which they shouldn’t have even been considering in the first place thanks to folks like Paul that like to scream from the rooftops “separation of church and state!!”

            And UCLA?

            First Paul states that: “the UCLA call to prayer was a one time thing…something you conveniently left out as well.”

            And then he says: “Again, Duke didn’t allow the call.
            UCLA didn’t either, the students did it on their own.”

            “Less than a week after controversy erupted over an announcement that a Muslim call to prayer would be broadcast at North Carolina’s Duke University, it has come to light that students at UCLA in California HAVE BEEN DOING SO FOR SOME TIME.” Hmmm…THAT’s not how Paul tells it. Something HE conveniently left out eh?

            “But as the call to prayer made headlines nationwide, some expressed concern over the accommodation in light of the violence that thousands of Muslims are committing worldwide in the name of Allah. Duke University was flooded with calls and emails from those nationwide that opposed the accommodation. On Thursday, THE UNIVERSITY announced that it had changed ITS plans.” Hmmm…”the university changed ITS plans!” Again not quite what Paul would have us believe…And see how he rages against Christians in his posts! Like they are to blame for the many calls from concerned individuals who opposed this unprecedented promotion of Islam in American schools. Opposition he, HIMSELF, regularly directs at Christianity in any school setting and Christianity alone it would appear, as we can see his apparent indifference to the promotion of Islam in said schools.

            “Instead of having the Muslim call to prayer broadcast from the chapel bell tower, Duke University said that Islamic students would instead gather outside of the chapel to chant their call to prayer before moving inside to continue their meeting. On Friday, approximately 100 Muslim students attended the call to prayer, which was broadcast from the chapel steps via a small speaker.”

            Yeah, nothing to see here according to Paul and Lark.

            Christian books are purged from school libraries, Christian meetings can no longer rent space in public schools, private Bible studies on campuses are shut down, prayers over meals challenged, Christmas carols that mention Jesus abolished and, oh wait, what’s the title of this article again? But Muslim calls to prayer can be broadcasted over school property? Riiiiiight.
            And our children have to learn about the Five Pillars of Islam.

            For anybody other than Lark and Paul who actually does research and has a willingness to learn, here’s a simple google search about the legitimate and widespread concern over Islam overtaking American schools. Feel free to try to explain away the countless links provided. Or the surprising silence from the religious separation crowd who worked so tirelessly to purge Christianity from our schools. Good luck!
            (Or just listen to the ramblings of Lark and Paul. Nothing to see hear…Back to sleep ;)”

            Unlike Paul, links are provided for your perusal. As always, people should decide for themselves and take care regarding the nonsense they hear on these sites without verification. And judge for yourself who brings intelligent discussion to the table and who babbles on incoherently about their “opinions”.
            Oh and, please stop “destroying” me Paul! Mercy! I can’t take it any more! (Hee hee! Too cute this guy!)

            https://www.google.ca/search?s
            http://www.breitbart.com/big-g

            http://christiannews.net/2015/
            http://www.islaminourschools.c

          • Lark62

            Duke was going to voluntarily SHARE their chapel for three minutes once a week as an act of kindness but the christians wouldn’t allow it. Jesus must be proud at your humanity as well as your endurance to persecution.
            .

          • Paul Hiett

            I think I know what your problem is. You view any request by another religion for equality as an “attack” on your religion.

            The Duke case is a prime example of this. You posted it as an example of your claim that Muslims are taking over our schools, but instead, because I actually read the article that you didn’t, I found that Duke merely offered to allow Muslim students to use the loudspeakers and church. This did no harm to any Christian, but instead of showing the kind of passion and tolerance your “savior” shows, you instead view it as an attack on your faith.

            So yeah, once more, destroying anything you post.

          • Rebus Caneebus

            Also, Duke U. is a PRIVATE university. They CAN promote religion.

          • chiefwarrantofficer

            Not if they take a single dime of federal money.

          • Patti

            The Call to Prayer was to have taken place from the University Chapel’s bell tower. That is, Duke DOES have a place for Christian worship. And, actually, they have allowed non-Christian groups to use their Chapel. The call to prayer should not have been an issue for a private university, especially one that already openly caters to religion.

          • chiefwarrantofficer

            I was responding to Rebus, not you, so wonder why you posted to me>

          • Patti

            It’s a public discussion board. People who feel they have something to say often jump in.

          • chiefwarrantofficer

            Just checking in case you posted to the ‘wrong’ commenter.

          • Patti

            OK

      • Chosm

        let’s not compare apples to oranges: reading proverb is not the same as Muslim call to prayer. And i would not be going nuts of out my mind if the Principal read some verses from the Koran about God or verses from the Sanscrit – as it would be instructional and inspirational. Also you should put in context, America is a Christian country with Christian roots and culture, so it did not bother me that they were reading Lord’s Prayer over the PA when i was in elementary school. And it did not bother me to hear muslim prayer calls several times a day when i was living in M-E. it depends on the person’s attitude and level of maturity and not on what others suppose is an issue.

        • Lark62

          Yes. Reading words attributed to the genocidal maniac you worship is just as offensive as reading from the koran. And just as illegal.

          • Chosm

            i had a very wierd but pleasant experience in a church many years ago. at the time i had a very heavy burden on my heart, and so a couple of the pastors were praying for me. at one point one of them laid a hand on my head, and i then felt something like a warm but liquid was slowly entering and filling was my body from flowing from top of my head through to my neck and arms and then to the chest and to tummy at a very measured pace. later, in speaking to another pastor, he samiled and replied, ” so you go the buzz” ie the Holy Spirit coming onto me. up until that time, for me going to church was just a Sunday routine, but no longer. I started to realize that there is more to this world then meets the eye. ever since that experience, i know Holy Spirit is real and therefore God is real. And not only that He has sustained me through many trials and hardships and only i and others who have gone through trials would know that. I used to be an unbeliever like you and so i can understand your views and opinions expressed, however there is much about the world we do not know or can’t ever know.

          • Lark62

            I was born again, filled with the spirit and all the rest. I reached my current religious views by considerIng evidence rather than emotion. But I remember how good the emotion felt. If you are happy, that’s good. I too am happy and content.

            I promise not to use government property and authority to impose my personal beliefs on an entire public school full of kids. All I ask is the same consideration from christians.

  • Felton Mitchell

    some white people (not all) and homosexuals that are atheist let them all burn in hell

    • Paul Hiett

      Well aren’t you just the perfect spokesman for Christianity!

    • Reason2012

      God can save anyone, so I wouldn’t judge anyone as going to_hell.

      Matthew 7:1-2 “[Jesus said] Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”

      Jude 1:9 “Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst [dared] not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.”

      I would pray for even our enemies as God commands.

      • chiefwarrantofficer

        Well, Felton WAS PRAYING for them to burn in hell……such a good christian.

    • Bolvon72

      Cool, what about a half black bisexual? Any chance with your specifications? Nut.

  • derpollisauce

    Would this lawsuit have been lost if it were a Hindu prayer?

  • MEP1101

    This is just going to get worst and we Christians have to steel ourselves for the persecution that is coming. We are living in the day of the End Time’s Anti-Christ and our faith is going to be severely tested. Memorize as much of Jesus loving instruction as you can and share your faith with everyone around you. Look too at the wonderful examples of Christians suffering faithfully in Muslim countries, These things will strengthen us for what is coming. God bless us all !

    • Helookalikaman79

      Christians are claiming they are being persecuted… Total BS, the only thing happening is that Christians are LOSING the control it has had on society. You believe in your religion, great, happy for you.. But the “I’m being persecuted because no one wants to hear me pray, or no one wants me to control their lives, by living the way I want them too…” is bs You have your bible read it, pray do what ever you like. But when I and others do NOT want to hear about your chosen religion/rules, we are NOT persecuting you. We just want our rights, Freedom FROM religion…. Just like you have your rights of Freedom of Religion, you get to pick your religion, I get to NOT hear about it. AND I will shock you, I believe in God, I don’t believe in the organized religions, that HARM people, Intended or Not.

    • Lark62

      Newsflash – with persecution one is harmed.

      Not being allowed to force children to listen to your myths as a condition of attending a public school is not now, has never been and never will be persecution. Being told to treat others with the same respect you desire for yourself is not persecution.

    • Paul Hiett

      I really don’t think any Christian in America knows what persecution really is.

  • Bolvon72

    The best thing I ever did for my daughter was to get her the hell out of Texas.

    • Paul Hiett

      And we’re much better off here in Texas without you.

  • Mr. Avatar

    Just as Hitler united his State against common enemies, here the turning Point came in 1947 when the 1st amendment was subverted by our very own Supreme Court. We can’t take that back or can we? I believe we can. It will take some political maneuvering by those Christians in the legal profession.

    • Paul Hiett

      To do what, force people to listen to Christian only messages in our public schools?

  • Americanpatriot2014

    YES, how heartening to hear someone with a brain standing up to these crazy people.

    • Ed Words

      If he had a brain he’d know he’s going to lose.

  • Ed Words

    Religion is such an ego trip. He will end up ‘praying’ for the judges

    who rule against them

  • http://www.worthynews.com/ Joe DeCaro

    Does this school have “Bible as literature” classes?

  • Bob267

    These Christian religious wackos are out of hand!! Keep your damn beliefs out of Public entities, it’s the LAW!!!!

  • Bob267

    a. These Christian religious wackos are out of hand!! Keep your damn beliefs out of Public entities, it’s the LAW!!!!

  • Bob267

    c. These Christian religious wackos are out of hand!! Keep your damn beliefs out of Public entities, it’s the LAW!!!!

  • Christian

    Did anyone read the article? There was no prayer!!! The principal read a few lines from the Bible. Do you all know/realize that in a lot of public schools they are not just reading the Quran, but also teaching from it?!?!? This wasn’t a Bible “study” or a prayer so why is he getting grief? Why is it that the Quran is OK and the Bible isn’t? Read the Constitution-it’s freedom OF religion not from it!!!! Christians need to wake up and stand up before anti-Christians take away all of our rights. I applaud the principal and superintendent for a job well done! Keep up the good work!

  • Florestan

    The Bible should be studied. Even I in Public Schools. Only on a voluntary basis. Prayer over the PA system is hardly voluntary.

    • chiefwarrantofficer

      As well as the main texts of other religions to document similarities and differences and as history.

    • Lark62

      Study of the bible as literature and study of comparative religions are important. But no school employee can say, while on the clock, “Listen to this religion. This is the good one.”

  • Truthhurts24

    This superintendent will be blessed

  • Dexter L. Wilson

    Statistical proof that the Creator is and that He produced the Bible and no other book.
    The Bible, with
    the Hebrew Old Testament Text and the original Greek New Testament does
    things that no other religious text of any other World Religion does;
    demonstrating that only the Creator could have, through 44 inspired
    writers, written this book. The scribes who copied the original Hebrew
    Old Testament text copied carefully every letter, jot and tittle. As
    they read the copied text, if a single letter, jot, or tittle mistake
    was made, they would destroy all that had been written and start over.

    Ivan Panin, a Harvard Hebrew, Greek, and Mathematical Scholar
    researched the numerical values of the Hebrew and Greek letters. He sent
    43,000 pages of numerical research to the Nobel Research Committee in
    1900, and they could not refute the fact that God through 44 inspired
    writers wrote the Bible.

    Del Washburn has written two books expanding on the numerical values,
    “Theomatics” and “Theomatics II”. (See http://www.biblecode.com ).

    The most amazing proof that the Creator of the Universe wrote the Bible
    through the inspired men of God is the Equidistant Letter Sequences.
    The NSA tried to duplicate such coding and failed. Harold Gans, the lead
    code breaker for the NSA, before he died, satisfied himself that God
    wrote the Bible, by using a mathematical formula to determine the
    probabilities involved in creating codes throughout the surface text of
    the Old Testament (www.biblecodedigest.com ). Through the code, the
    multitude of information reads like yesterdays news–you must know the
    names, events, persons involved, locations, and/or the dates. For this
    reason it can not be used prophetically.

    The original text of the Old and New Testament with the letter numeric
    values and the multitude of Equidistant Letter Sequences should be
    enough to prove to anyone that the God of the Bible, is our Creator.
    There are thousands of words, names, sentences and locations encoded in
    the Old Testament. If you are thinking that some super intelligence
    wrote this book other than God, God reminds you from Numbers 23’19”,
    “God is not a man that He should lie….” No human or computer can
    duplicate anything resembling the quantity of ELS coding in surface text
    like the Bible does. There are even codes between books, God knowing
    which books would be canonized.

    In Ezekiel 36′ 25″-27″ it describes God’s way of salvation–“I will
    remove your stoney heart and give you a heart of flesh (being born again
    and receiving Jesus as your Savior), I will sprinkle you with water and
    make you clean (water baptism), and put my Spirit in you to cause you
    to walk in my laws and statutes (receiving the Baptism of the Holy
    Spirit).

    The Bible is the Manufacturer’s Handbook for Planet Earth!

    Post Scripts

    Sources:
    “His Name is Jesus”, “The Genesis Factor”, “The Signature of God”, “The
    Writings of God”, “The Mysterious Bible Codes” (book and DVD’s),
    “Cracking the Bible Code”, “Bible Code Bombshell”, “The Torah Codes and
    Israel Today”, Computorah/The Bible Code I, II, &III,
    bibleprobe.com/jesuscode.htm, “Yeshua”, “Jesus Is My Name” ,
    http://www.biblecodedigest.com, http://www.biblecode.com and there are so many more.

    Ivan
    Panin corrected an Exhaustive Bible Concordance using what he called
    the Bible Numerics. He said if there were 2 words found in the Greek New
    Testament in a sentence and you wanted to know which word to use, the
    word that harmonized with the sentence numerically was the correct word.
    He provided a Greek Numeric New Testament. Example of Bible Numerics:
    In the first sentence in the Old Testament, Genesis 1’1″, every verb is
    divisible by 7, every noun, and more; there are over 34 features of the
    number 7 in just this one sentence and these type features are
    consistent throughout the Bible.

    Just
    a few of the codes found: Hitler, Holocaust, Eichmann, Fuhrer,
    Meinkampf, Berlin, Germany, Belson, King of the Nazis, Crematoria for my
    Sons, (for statistical purposes only-there are more) 66 names of
    Rabbis-the cities in which they lived-dates of death, Anwar
    Sadat-1981-parade-shot-gunfire-Chaled (his assassin), Yitzchak
    Rabin-Israel-will be murdered-date born-date of death-location of the
    assassination-assassin’s name-Oslo Peace Process, both Wars in the Gulf,
    George Bush, Saddam Hussein-America Schwarzkopf-the missiles will
    terrify-Scud B-they shut the door-3rd of Shavat, empty the gas, Murrah
    Building-Tim-McVeigh-slaughter-desolate, (in Genesis 38′) all the
    ancestors of King David, (in Genesis)25 trees are named, (between Isaiah
    52′ and 55′) Behold the Blood of Jesus-Let Him Be
    Crucified-Mary-Joseph-Jesus is my Name-all the disciples names,Nazarene,
    Messiah, Shiloh, Passover, Galilee, Herod, Annas, Caiaphas Caesar, The
    evil Roman City, (in Zechariah 9’13”)Jesus, (in Zachariah 11’13”)Jesus,
    (in Daniel 9’26”) The Peace Offering, (in Micah 5’1-2″ Mary, Joseph, and
    Jesus(Yeshua),(in Matthew 24’7 through 48″) Jesus, Nazareth, Mercy,
    Lamb, (in Mark 8’9″ through Mark 9’2″) Jesus, Blood, Son, Innocent,
    Lamb, (in John 5’5″-13″) Jesus, Nazareth, Lamb, the name of the person
    most responsible for all the satellites circling the Earth and their
    names—–and on and on and on and on. I don’t think all of the codes
    will be found. Who knows, the Old Testament in the original Hebrew may
    have the list of those whose names are written in the BOOK OF LIFE.

    • Lark62

      Too bad he forget that he made bats as mammals, not birds. Must’ve slipped his mind.

      • Dexter L. Wilson

        What you said makes no sense. Have you even looked at the sources–might I suggest you go to http://www.biblecodedigest.com. Do you read Hebrew or Greek? I really can’t see your point. Please feel free to explain as a reply.

  • Solly Llama
    • Patti

      Good. School Districts need to use their taxpayer provided funds to educate our children, not to re-fight a battle that was lost many years ago.

  • Marvelatthis

    God bless this school for standing up for the rights of children. There was an article in Nature about a study done concerning the New Atheist. Here is some information regarding that study:
    Over the past few weeks, a theme of discussion on the Internet has been the proposal that atheists may not exist. Of course people who think they’re atheists exist, but a study discussed in Nature proposes that people really aren’t functionally atheists because we’re innately predisposed toward religion. In an article titled “Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that’s not a joke,” Science 2.0 has a nice summary:

    While militant atheists like Richard Dawkins may be convinced God doesn’t exist, God, if he is around, may be amused to find that atheists might not exist.
    Cognitive scientists are becoming increasingly aware that a metaphysical outlook may be so deeply ingrained in human thought processes that it cannot be expunged.

    While this idea may seem outlandish — after all, it seems easy to decide not to believe in God — evidence from several disciplines indicates that what you actually believe is not a decision you make for yourself. Your fundamental beliefs are decided by much deeper levels of consciousness, and some may well be more or less set in stone.

    In other words believing in God is set in stone at an early age. Just a bit more:

    There’s more to say here. We could turn the argument on its head: if God exists and has designed us to connect with him, then we’re actually functioning properly when we’re directed toward belief in God. We can agree that natural/physical processes partly contribute to commitment to God. In that case, the basic argument of Dawkins and Dennett could actually support the idea that religious believers are functioning decently and in order.

    On top of this, we’re left wondering why people would think up gods and spirits in the first place. Why would humans voluntarily sacrifice their lives for some intangible realm? Maybe it’s because the physical domain doesn’t contain the source of coherence, order, morality, meaning, and guidance for life. Humans, though embodied, are moral, spiritual beings; they’re able to rise above the physical and biological to reflect on it and their condition. This can result in the search for a world-transcending God.

    Attempts by these New Atheists to explain away theology as a useful fiction or, worse, a harmful delusion fall short of telling us why the religious impulse is so deeply embedded. If God exists, however, we have an excellent reason as to why religious fervor should exist.

    It’s even more interesting that this information was provided by an Atheist.

  • mcrognale

    EXCELLENT! Proud to stand with Dr Gilbert and Mr. Noll. The push back against these fools is swelling. Way past time to tell them to sit down and shut up. We are, and always have been, a Christian nation despite the attempts to re-write history to their liking. No More!

    • Patti

      Dr. Gilbert and Mr. Noll have already caved. You’re reading an old story. You might want to look for an update. They’ve agreed to stop reading scripture and instead have a “thought of the day.” Fortunately they did this before costing their school district tons of money fighting a battle that was lost many years ago. Using one’s position as a public school principle (or any other government position) to spread your religion to a captive audience of children has been ruled as an unconstitutional.

  • The Skeptical Chymist

    This article is out of date. Superintendent Michael Gilbert has changed his mind and will no longer permit Bible readings over the intercom. He chose to follow the law, and not use his governmental position to favor one religion over another