Arkansas Senate Considering Proposal to Place Ten Commandments Monument on Capitol Grounds

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — The Arkansas state Senate is considering a proposal to allow a privately-funded Ten Commandments monument to be placed on the grounds of the state capitol building.

The Senate State Agencies and Governmental Affairs Committee approved the proposal by Sen. Jason Rapert (R-Bigelow) on Tuesday, just a day after the motion had failed, sending the matter on to the full Senate for a vote.

“The Secretary of State shall permit and arrange for the placement on the State Capitol grounds of a suitable monument commemorating the Ten Commandments,” SB939 reads in part. “The Secretary of State shall arrange for the monument to be designed, constructed, and placed on the State Capitol grounds by private entities at no expense to the State of Arkansas.”

“The placement of the monument under this section shall not be construed to mean that the State of Arkansas favors any particular religion or denomination over others,” it continues.

Rapert points to similar monuments in Texas and Oklahoma being declared as constitutional as legal footing for the placement, including the 2005 U.S. Supreme Court ruling in Van Orden v. Perry. The display would be erected among a variety of displays that are currently on the capitol grounds.

“Hopefully, we’ll be able to install a monument that is basically identical to the one that is in Texas and Oklahoma,” he said, according to Arkansas Online. “Nobody is required to look at it. Nobody is required to read it.”

“I think as part of our state capitol, it would make a nice addition and give a nice honor to the fact that this is a part of the foundation of American jurisprudence,” Rapert opined. “We have room for many more [monuments], and we don’t have anything in particular that honored that aspect of the moral foundation of American law.”

  • Connect with Christian News

But other senators rejected the proposal out of their belief that it infringes on the “separation of church and state.” Sen. David Johnson (D-Little Rock) was one of those who voted against the monument.

“A state law that provides for a religious monument devoted to one religion, I believe, is discriminatory against those who don’t agree with that religion,” he told the Times Record. “It violates the Establishment Clause of the Constitution and the important principle of separation of church and state.”

With the committee advancing the bill, SB939 now moves to the full Senate, where it has fifteen additional co-sponsors.

The proposal comes just months after District Judge Thomas Prince of Oklahoma tossed out a lawsuit by means of summary judgment that sought to challenge the presence of a Ten Commandments monument on the grounds of the Oklahoma state capitol. Prince concluded that the monument served a historical purpose and not solely the presentment of a religious message as it sits on a plot of land that contains 51 other expressive monuments.

A second lawsuit had been filed against the display, but it was dismissed earlier this month as U.S. District Judge Robin Cauthron declared that the complainant had not proven that she suffers personal injury from the monument’s presence.

Photo: Stuart Seeger


A special message from the publisher...

Dear Reader, our hearts are deeply grieved by the ongoing devastation in Iraq, and through this we have been compelled to take a stand at the gates of hell against the enemy who came to kill and destroy. Bibles for Iraq is a project to put Arabic and Kurdish audio Bibles into the hands of Iraqi and Syrian refugees—many of whom are illiterate and who have never heard the gospel.Will you stand with us and make a donation today to this important effort? Please click here to send a Bible to a refugee >>

Print Friendly
  • Paul Hiett

    And I’m sure they’d accept an atheist plaque on the grounds of a publicly funded, government office, right? After all, they don’t have to look at it…

    • The Skeptical Chymist

      And of course, the atheist plaque should not be construed to mean that the state of Arkansas favors atheism over religion, or one particular religion.

    • Parque_Hundido

      We are already preparing a shrine to Lord Satan. We will install it next to their bible monument. It will have better lighting. They will hate it and back down.

      • Marvels of life

        Not likely sir. Does a Satanist church have tax exempt status? I don’t know the answer I’m just asking the question. But again, if the Freedom of Religion Act in a particular state, (there are 19 so far) indicates that Satanism is favorable to a majority of people you would have a point. Realistically however the point really is invalid at this time.

        • Paul Hiett

          Some Satanic churches do have tax exempt status, such as the one in Oklahoma. However, most Satanic groups don’t believe in tax exempt status and therefore elect not to seek it. However, if they did, they would be granted such a status.

          • Marvels of life

            Interesting I didn’t know that. Thanks for the info

        • Parque_Hundido

          No, there is no such “majority” requirement. We will add music to the statue. We may give out candy to children.

          Hail Satan! Have a satanic day!

          • Marvels of life

            LOL, when you can show me something Satanic on state Capitals, I’ll be the first in line to to start a petition to have it removed. However I’m not the least concerned with that. I find it more in line to be a joke. Sick in some ways but a joke just the same. I really don’t think that will happen in my life-time. And I plan to live a long time. LOL, actually it should read Hell to Satan, but then again you probably know that by now. Have a blessed day.

          • Parque_Hundido

            You seem to have missed what we did in Florida. When they allowed the distribution of bibles in schools, we handed out satanic temple coloring books for children. We got our way: no more bibles in schools.

            Hail Satan an have a demonic day!

          • Marvels of life

            A young teenage girl, impregnated during a satanic ritual, is forcibly
            delivered of her nearly term baby, forced to ritually kill the child and
            then to eat its heart as cult members watch. Another girl, a
            small child, is sealed inside the cavity of a disemboweled animal and
            “rebirthed” by her satinist captors during a ceremony. A preschool class
            is systematically sexually, emotionally, and physically abused by part
            of a nationwide, nearly invincible network of satanic peds and pornn. A young girl is thrown into an electrified cage with
            wolves and ritually invaded to deliberately produce a “wolf
            personality,” part of her multiple personality disorder as those who participated claimed. Source: Cult watch.

            I suppose you got your way on these things also.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Isn’t that “Rosemary’s Baby”? I’ve seen that movie, with Mia Farrow, Charles Grodin and Ruth Gordon. It’s a great movie.

          • Marvels of life

            Google Satanism. Story after story after story of horrific acts. Yes it would be better to stop Bibles than to have evil incarnate in a school. I consider that getting our way. Hell to Satan. You know even Satan himself knows the power of Christ. Don’t join Satan. He hates human kind and will drag you down with him when he ends up where he is going to end up. Than you will just be a slave. I suppose I’m talking to a brick wall on this. But you obviously see where this will take you from just a brief example.

          • Parque_Hundido

            We will be offering coloring books featuring Satan for children. We will be distributing Satan – shaped candy. We will have monuments to Lord Satan everywhere religionists insist on putting up monuments to the 10 commandments, the bible or whatever christian thing you feel the need to put on public property.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Who is Google Satan?

          • Marvels of life

            I might ask who is Satan?

          • Parque_Hundido

            He’s the model for the statues we will be placing in your kids’ schools.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Here’s the link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/19/satanic-coloring-book_n_5846640.html

            Hail Satan! Have a demonic afternoon!

    • Nick_from_Detroit

      Again, Mr. Hiett, I thought that being an atheist meant only an absence of belief?
      What would be on this plaque? Nothing

  • bowie1

    I wonder if putting a carving of the ten commandments in a public museum would violate the establishment clause, since museums simply record historical events and the artifacts that go along with it.

    • Paul Hiett

      You’re comparing a state senate building to a museum. Apples and oranges.

      • bowie1

        Notice I did say PUBLIC museum.

        • Paul Hiett

          What is the purpose of a museum? What is the purpose of a state senate building?

          There’s your answer.

  • Rebus Caneebus

    Any politician who says they want to put up the 10 commandments for historical reasons is lying.

    • Paul Hiett

      “Any politician…is lying”

      I prefer the shorter version. 🙂

  • TheBBP

    A daily reminder of the Ten Commandments should be ESPECIALLY useful to politicians.

  • weasel1886

    Since when do politicians follow any of Gods laws? None are Christians

  • Marvels of life

    Another question. I seem to remember Netanyahu mention that in the Chamber of Congress toward the back he had seen the 10 commandments and mentioned Moses in his speech. If that is so, it could be possible we will see more monuments in the future of the 10 commandments on state capital grounds. It certainly seems to be headed in that direction which is ok with me. I know some may not like it, but I think it shows that our nation is in fact built on judeo-christian values.

    • Paul Hiett

      Except that it’s not a Christian nation. We don’t show preferential treatment just to Christians, when people of all cultures and faiths helped build this country. All are equal.

      • Nick_from_Detroit

        Being a Christian nation doesn’t mean giving preferential treatment to Christians, Mr. Hiett. It means that the country was founded on the Christian principles of law, both man-made and God’s natural law.
        The Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution are predicated on the principle of a nation of laws, not men. That the king/law-makers are subject to the law, not above the law. And, that our rights come from the Creator God, not men.

        • Paul Hiett

          First, you need to answer the simply question of, “Do our laws come from the Declaration of Independence?”, and then “Where in the Constitution does is reference any deity?”

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            1) No, the Declaration of Independence is our foundational, legal document. By signing it, the Founders put themselves in danger of hanging for treason. But, it didn’t set up a form of government or legislature. That was the Articles of Confederation.
            2) Right at the end, where it says, “In the Year of our Lord….” Our Lord being Christ Jesus.

          • Paul Hiett

            The DOI is not a legal document at all though. Where did you get that idea?

            Also, MANY things are signed “In the year of our Lord…”. That has nothing to do with what it contains. Can you point to me in the Constitution where it says anything about Christianity at all?

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            It most certainly is a legal document. It was sent to the nations of Europe, in hopes of gaining international recognition.

            “That has nothing to do with what it contains.”

            You didn’t ask that. You asked for a reference for “any deity,” remember? Which doesn’t address my points, either.

          • Paul Hiett

            The signature means nothing!

            And no, the DOI is not a legal document. It establishes no laws what so ever.

            Our Constitution is what gives us our laws…after all, the Bill of Rights IS part of the Constitution. The DOI gives us nothing.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            The Declaration of Independence lists the legal reasoning, under natural law and the Law of Nations, why the colonies had the legal & moral right to separate themselves from the rule of Great Britain. Have you ever read the document, Mr. Hiett?
            I’m not sure what you mean by “The signature means nothing!”?

          • Paul Hiett

            You’re going 0 for 3 here.

            What laws does the DOI establish in this country?

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Asked, and answered, counselor. Why do you keep asking a question to which I’ve already responded?
            You’ve yet to respond to my points in any meaningful way, Mr. Hiett. Have you even heard of the Law of Nations?

          • Paul Hiett

            Yeah, it’s a philosophical ideology. It’s not a “law”.

            Can you please point out what Law the DOI establishes? Or perhaps you don’t know what a law is?

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Straw man, Mr. Hiett. I never claimed that the Declaration “established” any law. I said it was a legal document which would have resulted in the execution of the signatories of said document. It’s a foundational document for the United Sates of America. It is the foundational document. The Constitution being the third, and, the Bill of Rights being the fourth.

          • Paul Hiett

            It’s NOT a legal document! Where are you getting this idea from?

            Were you home schooled or something?

            It grants no legal status, establishes no law, grants no rights. This a fact.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            “It’s NOT a legal document!”
            Yes. It. Was.

            The Declaration summarized the colonists’ motivations for seeking their independence. By declaring themselves an independent nation, the American colonists were able to conclude an official alliance with the government of France and obtain French assistance in the war against Great Britain. […]
            The Declaration’s most important diplomatic effect was to allow for recognition of the United States by friendly foreign governments. The Sultan of Morocco mentioned American ships in a consular document in 1777, but Congress had to wait until the 1778 Treaty of Alliance with France for a formal recognition of U.S. independence.

            https://history.state.gov/milestones/1776-1783/declaration

            Your knowledge of U.S. history is severely lacking, I’m afraid, Mr. Hiett.

          • Paul Hiett

            What law or right does the DOI give you?

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Straw man, Mr. Hiett. You have failed, miserably.

      • Marvels of life

        I think that is why the 10 commandments is a great representation of our culture. It appeals to Christians, Jews, even the Muslim community. Probably the only exception would be the atheist because of their system of beliefs. To me I support the message. Clearly everyone doesn’t want murder, coveting someone else’s belongings, etc. that the 10 commandments state. The diversity of religious beliefs confirms your statement about a Christian nation. I’m just pointing out that our country was founded on judeo-christian values. That is the point I was trying to make.

        • Paul Hiett

          I can understand how it would appeal to followers of the “Big Three”. Yet, are all Americans followers of those religions?

          Obviously that’s a rhetorical question. No, we’re not. Atheists, Hindus, Sikhs, and every worshiper of any religion that lives here has no connection to the 10 commandments, which, I should point out, are similar to the laws of pretty much every other civilization in history (other than the references to God, of course).

          I often find it ironic that the men who left religious persecution to establish this country are often pointed to when Christians engage in such persecution themselves. We were founded on the idea that all men are equal, and that we should have no established religion in this country, that all are free to worship as they desire.

          In a country in which our founders clearly established, in our Constitution, a clear separation of Church and State, should we not be following in that line of thinking?

          • Marvels of life

            unfortunately or fortunately as people will look at their perspective world views, you are likely to see more political discussions turn toward Christian perspectives. It will in fact in my opinion be one of the main subjects for electing a future president. I was reading an article that explained more people will be looking at who will be president based on religious affiliation, than the economy for instance. It is the world that we live in today, so of course if is going to be difficult as an atheist as a minority voice to compel others to think in the same ways that for example, you may be thinking. Really from what I have been studying, the separation of church and state was in no way to limit religious concepts. It was to refrain the state from modivation of religous belief systems. Freedom of religion seems to be more in line with allowing all religions to exist in America, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the state isn’t able to have religious symbols such as the one in the Chamber of Congress representing good attributes for all people that live in the United States. Since Atheism isn’t really an attribute of religion, it is more of a voice for minority rights, which is a separate issue.

          • Marvels of life

            Realistically speaking, that will probably not be an issue. The majority of Americans find Satanism to be a bit revolting, and again we are living in a society that will not likely approve of any leadership from a satinist. Also since states are designing their own Freedom of Religion acts, it may be that one day people will have to decide in what state they wish to live in, such as an atheist, especially if they don’t approve of the act in a particular state.

          • Marvels of life

            I think the Religious Freedom restoration act will be used more and more as an example of religious symbols being appropriate for state and local governments. In its first form it was more contributing benefits to religious institutions, but has then been expanded to state laws.

          • Paul Hiett

            All religions, right? Do you support a Satanic symbol?

          • Marvels of life

            Realistically speaking, that will probably not be an issue since a
            majority of Americans find that type of thing to be a bit revolting, and again we
            are living in a society that will not likely approve of any leadership
            from a satinist.

            Also since states are designing their own Freedom of
            Religion acts, it may be that one day people will have to decide in what
            state they wish to live in, such as an atheist, especially if they
            don’t approve of the act in a particular state.

          • Parque_Hundido

            No. We will destroy these laws in every state that has been foolish enough to pass them. We will not rest until we yank religion out of public life.

          • Marvels of life

            No need to converse. I don’t take you seriously. I doubt many will.

          • Parque_Hundido

            The beauty of our plan is that your cooperation and consent aren’t required for our success. You are doomed to failure. Count on it.

          • Marvels of life

            LOL

          • Parque_Hundido

            You saw what we did in Florida? We will destroy you.

            Bless!

        • Parque_Hundido

          These monuments appeal to the same people who like to listen to Rush Limbaugh, people who once lynched black people and who love to beat up on gays.

          This is strictly a hillbilly, “guns, gays and god” type thing. Those who support this represent the lowest, least educated stratum of our society. They should be ignored.

        • Parque_Hundido

          Are you referring to the movie or the monument?

          • Marvels of life

            Speaking of movies, you should watch ‘Clown’. I think you could identify with that one.

          • Parque_Hundido

            I’m thinking you could identify with the protagonist in ‘Rudy’.

    • The Last Trump

      You’ll have to forgive Paul. And the rest of the confused and uneducated masses who don’t know their history very well today.

      These poor souls are still scratching their heads in bewilderment trying to comprehend why they’ve had Christmas and Easter as holidays their entire lives.

      And received Christmas presents and chocolate bunnies and sang carols about Jesus. And why their government officials, including judges and presidents themselves swore oaths over the Holy Bible. And….
      Well, you get the picture.

      • Paul Hiett

        Christmas and Easter? You think those are Christian holidays?

        Oh that’s funny…

        • Nick_from_Detroit

          Yes, Mr. Hiett, they are Christian holy-days.
          You’re aware that it’s only called “Easter” in English speaking countries, are you not? Those countries that speak Romance languages call it Pasqua, i.e., Pesach (Passover), or some variant of it.
          And, Christmas predates Saturnalia, too. Don’t believe everything you’re spoon-fed from your atheist sites. Try having an open mind, sometimes.

          • Paul Hiett

            Let me get this straight…you claim that Saturnalia, a Roman holiday dated back to at least 217 BC, predates Christmas, which is supposedly the celebration of the birth of Jesus?

            Did you really just say that?

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Yes, my mistake, Mr. Hiett, if I’m reading your awkwardly worded reply correctly. I meant Sol Invictus was predated by Christmas. Saturnalia was never celebrated on December 25th. I get these two confused all the time! My fault, for not double checking. My apologies.
            My point still stands, though.

          • Paul Hiett

            You’re still wrong! Even Sol Invictus predates Christimas. You really need to vet your answers before you post them.

            First, no one knows the dates of when Jesus was born. The only reason Dec 25th was chosen was because many Christians were also already taking part in Sol Invictus ceremonies, not the mention many of the other pagan traditions/celebrations regarding the Solstice. In fact, this time period was chosen in order to help transition pagans to Christianity, to keep some of their traditions alive.

            The decorated tree, lights on the house, giving gifts, the yule log, singing carols…all of these things were pagan customs/traditions long before the Church adopted them into their Christmas celebration.

            You really don’t know much about the history of Christmas, it appears.

            I could also go into Easter and why that is not a Christian tradition either, if you’d like.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            You sound like an anti-Catholic fundamentalist, Mr. Hiett. Or, a Seventh Day Adventist!

            “The feast of Sol Invictus was the attempt by the Roman emperor Aurelian to reform the cult of Sol, the Roman sun god, and and reintroduce it to his people, inaugurating Sol’s temple and holding games for the first time in A.D. 274.”

            http://www.catholic.com/blog/jon-sorensen/why-december-25

          • Paul Hiett

            And when did Christmas come around? 336 AD. Unless my math is wrong, 274 predates 336.

            Care to admit you’re not quite up on your dates yet?

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            No, Mr. Hiett. Christmas was celebrated prior to A.D.336. If you’d bothered to read my link, this is all debunked:

            One example can be found in the writings of Hyppolytus of Rome, who explains in his Commentary on the book of Daniel (c. A.D. 204) that the Lord’s birth was believed to have occurred on that day:
            For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls.

          • Paul Hiett

            Again, you really don’t know what you’re talking about, which is why you’re losing this debate so very badly. Here, I’ll even use a Christian website to prove you wrong.

            http://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/timeline/301-600/the-1st-recorded-celebration-of-christmas-11629658.html

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            What debate? You’ve only offered your mere opinions, while I, on the other hand, have produced historical evidence.

            Some Christians use this 300 hundred year argument in an attempt to argue against the Catholic Church. My quotation debunks your link’s claims, Mr. Hiett.

          • Paul Hiett

            I just posted a link to a Christian website proving you wrong. I can post dozens of them, Christian and non-Christians. No one agrees with you. No one.

            Not one historian or religious scholar agrees with you.

            Now, if you’re the only one disagreeing with the entire world, shouldn’t that be a clue that you’re wrong?

            http://realtruth.org/articles/169-ttooc.html
            http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/the-first-christmas.html
            http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/news/2000/dec08.html

            I can go on and on proving you wrong. There’s nothing wrong with being wrong…until you persist despite all of the facts being right in front of you.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            I’m not the only one, Mr. Hiett. Perhaps you missed my quote from Hyppolytus, in all of your zealousness to be “right”?

            One example can be found in the writings of Hyppolytus of Rome, who explains in his Commentary on the book of Daniel (c. A.D. 204) that the Lord’s birth was believed to have occurred on that day:
            For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls.

          • Paul Hiett

            Where is the celebration of Christmas mentioned?

            Are you not reading the links I have provided? Are you not researching anything yourself?

            A simple Google search of “when was the first Christmas” would have saved you from this horrid beat down I’ve put on you. I’ve even used Christian websites…

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th….
            That would be…Christmas, Mr. Hiett.
            Trust me, I’ve researched this subject quite a bit. Obviously, you have not.

          • Paul Hiett

            Well ok then, that’ll just be your little secret. You might not want to mention it to anyone else though…like, you know, people who know what they’re talking about? You know, people like Christians who already know when the first Christmas was…

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            It wasn’t a secret to Hyppolytus of Rome, who wrote as much in A.D. 204. (That would be before A.D. 336, Mr. Hiett.)
            It’s no my fault that all of you links are ignorant of this fact.

          • Paul Hiett

            So the church established Christmas as being on December 25th in the year 204 AD? Why can I not find anything anywhere to support that claim?

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            I gave you the quotation from Hyppolytus of Rome. What more do you need, Mr. Hiett?

          • Paul Hiett

            Do you even know why he picked that date? First, the major religions of the time were already established as having celebrations during this time of year. From Solstice to Yule to Saturnalia, and Dec 25 was not already without significance.

            So, what does dear Hyppolytus do to make it more appealing for Christians? Let’s subtract 9 months from Dec 25, and we come to March 25, the day he says Creation happened on.

            Do you really want to continue pointing to this guys quote as the day that Christians first officially celebrated Christmas despite nobody else in the world agreeing with you?

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            You are missing the point, Mr. Hiett, through you ideological blindness.
            Hyppolytus’ quote proves that by A.D.204, Christians were already acknowledging that the “first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th….”

            Get it now? This precedes your claim by well over a century.

          • Paul Hiett

            No, it does not…it only suggests that this was the first attempt to pin Dec 25 as the birth of Christ. You said, and I quote, “Christmas was celebrated prior to A.D.336”.

            There is nothing in the quote by Hyppolytus that suggests that any kind of celebration at this time. The only thing this quote would support is an argument of Jesus being born on Dec 25th.

            It is a well established fact, supported by EVERYONE BUT YOU, that the first celebration of Christmas was in the year 336 AD.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Nick believes a lot of things that no one else believes.

          • Paul Hiett

            Nick is the type of Christian that will never budge from his viewpoint regardless of how many facts are put before him…even facts supported by his own religion.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            I’ve provided plenty of evidence, Mr. Hiett. You’re the one who has refused to deal with the facts.
            Now, your bogus claim all hinges on the word celebrate.
            I believe that is called an epic fail, sir.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Now you are picking nits, Mr. Hiett, in some vain and petty attempt at a Pyrrhic victory.

            The facts remain that Christians were observing the 25th of December as the Advent of our Lord in the flesh, i.e., Christmas, by the beginning of the Third Century, A.D.
            Over seven decades before emperor Aurelian’s attempt to reform the cult of Sol, in A.D.274, and co-opt Christmas.

            Nice try, but, you lose. Sorry.

          • Paul Hiett

            You have a single quote by an obscure Roman using March 25 as the anniversary of Creation, adding 9 months to it and claiming Dec 25th as the birth date of Jesus. No where does it suggest anything about anyone celebrating anything.

            Do you still not understand that you are the only person in the entire world who believes what you are saying? If you’re the only person among over 7 billion people…don’t you think you might be just a tad wrong?

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            No, Mr. Hiett, I’m not the only one. It’s actually quite main-street thought today, as my links have proven. Just because you are ignorant of it, says more about you, than it does about me. The fact that you think that you speak for all 7 billion people on the planet is more evidence of your delusions, rather than you knowledge of the subject.

            You are just regurgitating the vastly flawed & debunked historical-critical theories of the past two centuries. But, don’t take my word for it. Maybe you’ve heard of Pope Benedict XVI? One of the greatest theologians & biblical scholars of the past 500 years?
            In his book, “The Spirit of the Liturgy”, Pope Benedict comments:
            “The claim used to be made that December 25 developed in opposition to the Mithras myth, or as a Christian response to the cult of the unconquered sun promoted by Roman emperors in the third century in their efforts to establish a new imperial religion. However, these old theories can no longer be sustained” (pp., 107-108).

            http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/9-things-you-need-to-know-about-christmas/

          • BarkingDawg

            The early Christians stole those holy days from the pagans.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Wrong, BarkingDawg. Pagan customs were Christianized by missionaries. They were exorcised from their demon/pagan roots to point to Christian realities. Saint Paul did this in Athens, when he pointed to the pagan altar with the inscription “To an unknown god” (Acts 17).

          • Paul Hiett
          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Who is Jon Perry, Mr. Hiett? And, why should care about what he has to say about Christmas?

          • Paul Hiett

            So rather than attempt to debate the actual article and the facts it lists regarding traditions, you attempt to diffuse by asking who the author is? Are you aware of what “ad hominem” means?

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            No, Mr. Hiett. I want to know his credentials, since the site doesn’t list any. He provides no sources or citations. You might as well have cited wiki!
            Besides, I’ve already debunked most of what he had on that list.

          • Paul Hiett

            You haven’t debunked anything. Just like the date of the first Christmas, I can post website after website (religious and non-religious) proving you wrong on this.

            http://www.beliefnet.com/Love-Family/Holidays/Christmas/Christmas-Traditions.aspx
            http://www.livescience.com/25779-christmas-traditions-history-paganism.html
            http://www.allthingschristmas.com/traditions.html
            http://www.lifeway.com/Article/family-kids-Christmas-customs

            There’s 4 websites…care to ad hom those too? Or, perhaps you’d like to link your own websites to refute the facts?

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            I’ve already given you one site. Here are some others:
            http://www.thesacredpage.com/2006/12/gospel-truth-about-christmas.html
            http://taylormarshall.com/2011/12/dec-25-biblical-argument-of-birth-of.html

            And, here’s one by one of your fellow atheists who debunks the “Jesus Myther” brigade, in case you happen to be one of those, also:
            http://armariummagnus.blogspot.com/2011/05/nailed-ten-christian-myths-that-show.html

          • Paul Hiett

            These do very little to help your cause. We know for a fact that the first Christmas wasn’t established until 346 AD, requiring adoption of Christianity by the Roman emporer in 313 to even have a chance.

            I’ve already established, as fact, that every custom associated with Christmas has pagan origins. This isn’t even debatable at this point unless you just like to lie.

            Now we look at Taylor Marshall’s claim, which, btw, is just an opinion. There are many, many people out there that can easily offer a rebuttal on that claim, such as this article…

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1093053/Cancel-Christmas–Jesus-born-June-17-say-scientists.html

            …and many more.

            Regardless, I’ve already proven that the customs regarding Christmas are all pagan on origin, thus proving that Christmas as we know it today was not a Christian based holiday.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            That’s very sneaking of you, Mr. Hiett, to attempt to shift the focus on “customs” now. I’ve already stated that pagan “customs” were Christianized to point to greater truths of the Faith.
            And, I proved, in a quote from A.D. 204, that December 25th was the acknowledged date of Christ’s birth.
            So…yeah.

          • Paul Hiett

            Whether it was claimed to be the 25th or not has no bearing on the facts. His claim, and that of Marshalls, is an opinion only. I’m sure you know that. Regardless, the practices and customs of Christmas TODAY have no origin in Christianity, do they?

            You can at least be honest in accepting that truth, yes?

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            The customs have nothing to do with whether, or not, the celebration of Christ’s birth (i.e., His Advent) on Dec.25th was a copying of pagan celebrations. It did not.
            Plus, I’ll trust the opinion of Taylor Marshal, PhD., over some guy on Listverse.

          • BarkingDawg

            And where did Paul point to the Easter Bunny?

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Well, BarkingDawg, since Saint Paul didn’t evangelize the northern Germanic barbarians, or Britainia, he wouldn’t have, would he, now?

          • Paul Hiett

            Look up the origin of Easter. Nick won’t, because he’s too busy getting his butt handed to him regarding Christmas.

            Easter comes from the pagan rituals regarding spring and fertility. Makes sense, doesn’t it? Rabbits and their high reproductive lives…eggs, a clear representation of new life?

            Nick is simply scared to admit that none of the holidays we have are rooted in his choice of a religion.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            No, it does not, Mr. Hiett. The Passover comes from the book of Exodus, c. 1,350 B.C. Easter is the English word for the celebration of the Christian Pesach (Passover). I’ve already explained this to you. Why do you insist on ignoring it?

          • Paul Hiett

            Once again I see I am going to have to educate you on the origins of another holiday, and this time, I’ll just start with a Christian website…

            http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t020.html

            “The name “Easter” has its roots in ancient polytheistic religions (paganism). On this, all scholars agree.”

            I know you don’t like being exposed to the truth, but I can’t help what the truth is. I think you’re more upset at the messenger than the message.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            You’re the one who has a problem with the truth, Mr. Hiett. Only English speakers are so obstinate in their ignorance. Easter is the Anglicized version of the Pasch, the celebration of Christ’s Passion and death. Since, your ignorance seems to be invincible, here’s some more links:

            http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/EASTPAG.htm
            http://jimmyakin.com/is-easter-a-pagan-holiday

          • Parque_Hundido

            No, sweetie. Easter is derived from the same root as ‘estrus’. It’s a fertility festival. Found all over the world in one form or another.

            If you like, we could make little baby jesuses out of marzipan and put them in our chocolate Easter eggs. Would you like that? Would that make you feel more included?

          • Marvels of life

            So Paul that is what your doing? Arguing for the sake of arguing to win a debate? The origin of Easter and Christmas has really nothing to do with today’s interpretation of those holidays. Christians practice their beliefs. Those beliefs are that Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Christ. Easter is a representation of the resurrection of Christ. That is just a fact. It doesn’t mean that everyone looks at it that way, certainly you don’t. I think Christmas has become more materialistic in nature than the Christian celebration and although that is a shame to me, it may be a win for you.

          • Paul Hiett

            The origins of Easter are pagan though. Nick here seems to think that these holidays are Christian based, when they are most certainly not…at least not according to any historian on the planet.

          • Marvels of life

            That would be for you and Nick to discuss. I don’t want to interfere with that other than to say there is really no way to win or lose a debate like the one you both are having. At least from what I have observed of the conversation. It’s more a battle of wills lol. But that may be the entertainment of such. I’m trying to change the way I think about things. Some things are more important to me now than before my illness. I just want to have some joy and peace in my life. I don’t want to hold ill will toward anyone anymore. Not worth it to me.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Nicely stated, MoL! Be assured, I bear no ill will towards Mr. Hiett.
            God Bless!

          • Marvels of life

            Oh I know Nick. Hope your doing well. May God bless you as well. Thank you for your comment.

          • Parque_Hundido

            We just want to get back to traditional holidays by placing statues of satan and the Easter bunny in all public buildings. And on license plates. And on the currency.

            Hail Satan! Have a demonic day!

          • Marvels of life

            Good luck with that one lol

          • Parque_Hundido

            We don’t have to rely on luck.

          • Patricia

            The easter bunny is a pagan tradition.

          • Patricia

            Sorry but you are WRONG! Pagans have stolen it from the Christians. Christmas and Easter have ALWAYS been about CHRIST!

          • BarkingDawg

            In the internet, it’s sometimes is hard to tell when someone is being snarky or sarcastic.

            Is this the case, here, or are you serious?

          • Parque_Hundido

            Lol. No. You’ve spent too much time worshiping idols and venerating statues. The good thing about catholicism is that it is essentially a carry over of roman temple religions, which allowed locals to swap out gods, holidays and whatnot. That’s why we have incorporated pagan holidays into the christian calendar.

            The bad part of catholicism is, of course, the child molestation, the thievery and the kind of intellectual dishonesty we see from poor fools like Nick, who actually believe Christmas is a christian holiday because he fails to acknowledge the true origins of his celebrations.

            For the rest of us, Easter is derived from estrus and is a celebration of fertility. Christmas is the winter solstice. In most catholic countries, kids get presents on kings day, usually around the sixth of January.

            Nick’s ability to travel may be limited, as felons typically are not permitted entry.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Again, you are stalking me on other websites, Parque? Wow.
            I must have really hurt you deeply, that you have this pathological need to follow me, accuse me of vile things, and spread anti-Catholic propaganda, huh? I’m so sorry that my snarky comments have wounded your soul so badly. You really need to get a thicker skin. How do you survive in the world, if sarcasm affects you so detrimentally?

            p.s. Your knowledge of early Church history is just as bad as Paul Hiett’s. Do all of you atheists get your twaddle from the same hack atheist site?

          • Parque_Hundido

            Delusions of grandeur much? Are you so narcissistic as to think people are following you?

            Perhaps this is just misplaced guilt from abusing those children, defending Nazis and blaming others for your crimes.

            It seems you lose many arguments, mistaking your cult superstitions for real world facts.

            You are a real mess!

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Not only are you stalking me, Parque. But, you’re now obviously sitting by your computer, waiting for my replies to come in. I’m now living rent-free inside your head.
            Please, understand that I have ill-will towards you. I still love you, as Our Lord and Savior has commanded us. Nothing you say will change this, Parque. I know from where your hate comes, and makes me pity you all the more. I hope you realize the deception you live under, before it’s too late. May you, and your family, have a blessed Holy Week.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Your symptoms appear to be worsening. I would suggest you check yourself into a psychiatric facility. They will be able to help you face turning yourself in to police. It won’t be easy, but facing up your child molestation problems is the right thing to do. You may be able to become a better person in prison, away from the bad influence of idol worshipers and child molesters.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            I’m sorry, Parque, I’m not a public school teacher or U.N. diplomat/peacekeeper. So, I don’t know any child molesters. Please, try not to stalk me at other websites, okay?

          • Parque_Hundido

            Let’s face it: there’s likely a restraining order preventing you from going near any school.

            We’ve spoken about how you blaming others for your crimes isn’t helpful. Do we need to review?

          • Parque_Hundido

            Your symptoms are getting worse. I suggest you check yourself into a psychiatric facility immediately. They will help you prepare to turn yourself over to police and face your history of molesting children.

            Think of prison as an opportunity. You will be far from the idol worshipers and practicing child molesters, so maybe you can make something of yourself.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            What is your process, Parque? You type the first thing that pops into your brain, hit “reply,” and then something even more inane pops in, and you can’t help yourself, you have to make another reply? I must really have hurt you badly, to have become so obsessed with my posts, huh? I’m sorry. I don’t mean to hurt your feelings. But, the truth does hurt sometimes, Parque. Get used to it. God Bless!

          • Parque_Hundido

            I like your short response times. That tells me I have your attention.

            I’m making progress. I’m not giving up on you!

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Again with the multiple posts, Parque? Can’t you summarize your thoughts in one reply?
            Or, will you keep defending the child abusers in the public schools and U.N.? Or, G0re VIdal and AI KInsey?
            Actually, I’m slapping around a couple of other atheists who know nothing about history and the Catholic Church, just like you. So, your stuff keeps popping up as I respond to them. We both know that it is you who sits at his computer waiting with baited breath for everyone of my comments, Parque. Don’t deny the truth.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Your symptoms will only get worse. Your denial and projection will become more furious until your inevitable breakdown.

            Idol worship and attacking young children will never bring you peace.

          • Parque_Hundido

            You’re glued to your computer. My guess is that you’re unemployed and have at least one restraining order because of your propensity to molest children.

            I’ve obviously gotten under your skin. That’s a sure sign I’m right.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Now you’re back to copying my replies, Parque? How sad.
            Are you really the perv, Don Calaca, who runs the site Fantasmas? Pretty sick stuff.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Oh, your narcissism knows no bounds. I’d bet money I’m not the first to tell you that. I’m guessing this is at least part of what got you in trouble molesting children. Narcissism is part of the profile. As is the need to feel smart. In your case, your need vastly outstrips the ability, as I’ve observed.

            I’m right about the restraining order. I knew it.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            You didn’t answer my question, Parque. Are you the perv, Don Calaca, who runs that sicko website Fantasmas? Blechhh!

          • Parque_Hundido

            I think it’s interesting that you frequent sites that make you uncomfortable. Perhaps you should spend some time watching ‘To Catch a Predator’.

            You ready to tell us which political party pope Ratzinger joined as a young man? Or are you still too threatened to admit the truth?

          • Marvels of life

            FYI Paul. I do some interesting work. Just for you buddy. The so called Satanist is a Mexican dude. Info:Don Calaca FB. It seems they have an internet spook show indicated at the bottom. He looks to be harmless. He has a bunch of halloween type pictures on his profile, so don’t take the guy too seriously. It seems he likes to just play scary movie stuff.

            Today, after 6 consecutive years of programme we regret to inform you that there will be no program The voice of the beyond was admitted in the hospital, it was just a surprise and not gave us time to alert as it was due Keep you informed of the recovery of the voice, let us hope that everything goes as it should go out We ask all an apology and we hope to see you next Wednesday
            Fantasmas.com.mx

      • Marvels of life

        I’ve spoken with Paul numerous times. We certainly disagree on issues, but I also realize he is a father to his daughter and loves her. I know he is angry. He believes that his rights as an Atheist will be taken away from him, and as a minority voice is compelled to voice his concerns mostly in the political area. I suppose if I were in his shoes, it would be difficult to understand the love of Christ that we have the privilege of having. I won’t lose hope for him or anyone else however. I care about Paul and hope something will be a catalyst for understanding that Jesus loves us all. It will be hard for Paul and atheist’s throughout the world because of the nature of atheism itself. And yet judgement day is not here yet, so I have hope for everyone in this world that change will come through the love of Christ.

  • Parque_Hundido

    Why do these evil people feel compelled to violate the law? Why is imposing their superstitions so important that they would break the law to do so?

    It’s almost as if they’re hiding something.

  • gregkliebigsr

    GOOD FOR ARKANSAS !

    GOD BLESS ARKANSAS FOR STANDING UP FOR THE ONE TRUE GOD AND THE FATHER OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST !!

    • Parque_Hundido

      Thankfully, this will also allow us to place our monument to the Angel of Light.

      Hail Satan!

  • BarkingDawg

    I hope that they realize that if they open up the capital grounds to being a public forum, they will have to allow secular and atheistic monuments as well. Enjoy the lawsuits.

  • Parque_Hundido

    Please help us put a monument to Satan, angel of light, right next to their bible monument. We will have better lighting and free candy for children.

    Hail Satan! Have a demonic day!

    • BarkingDawg

      Lol

      • Parque_Hundido

        It’s gonna be awesome!

  • Parque_Hundido

    Let’s hope the monument to Lord Satan gets equal support.