Faith Comes By Hearing: Bibles for Iraq to Reach Refugees Displaced by Jihadists with Word of God

Marcavage-BFR
Michael Marcavage shows sample audio Bible

PHILADELPHIA — In response to the nearly two million civilians that have been displaced in Iraq and Syria by the barbaric Islamic group ISIS, which identifies itself a the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, an American Christian ministry has launched a project to not only meet the immediate physical needs of the people, but to eternally impact souls with the word of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Bibles for Iraq, a project of Bibles for Refugees, recently launched a global effort to provide those displaced by ISIS with their own copy of the word of God.

“As for all nations, the greatest need in Iraq is the gospel of Jesus Christ, and at no time are the Iraqi people more aware of the reality of life, death and eternity than now,” the project website outlines. “Our project, Bibles for Iraq, will focus on bringing the Scriptures to as many refugees as possible—many of whom cannot read or write and have never had access as much as they do now.”

Headlines over the past year have been filled with horrific reports of the unthinkable forms of torture and murder committed by ISIS, as well as the mass exodus that has resulted as the terror group continues to capture cities for Allah in its quest to build its Islamic caliphate.

The United States Commission on International Religious Freedom outlined in its annual report issued earlier this year that in 2014, ISIS issued an ultimatum that non-Muslims living in captured cities must “convert to Islam, leave …, pay a tax or face death.” The threat prompted hundreds of thousands to flee the region for safety.

Among those who have fled are the Yazidis, a people group that believes that the Earth was created by a formerly fallen angel called the “peacock angel” and that their eternal destiny will be determined by a grand mufti following death.

“For Yazidis, the ISIL ultimatum was to convert or die; they are not considered ‘people of the book’ and therefore not afforded the options to leave or pay a tax,” the report stated. “In addition, thousands of Yazidi women and girls, including those who had not reached puberty, were kidnapped, raped, sold as sex slaves or killed.”

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Reports now place the number of displaced civilians at 1.8 million, and those who have traveled to the region to minister in the name of Christ to the suffering state that hearts are hungry not only for food, but also for spiritual truth as they seek answers and hope in the midst of persecution.

Bibles for Refugees, in collaboration with World Mission, a Michigan-based organization that distributes the devices to unreached people groups worldwide, is now working to put solar-powered audio Bibles programmed with the Old and New Testament in both Arabic and Kurdish into the hands of Iraqi and Syrian refugees.

“Our hearts are deeply grieved by the ongoing devastation in Iraq, and through this we have been compelled to take a stand at the gates of hell against the enemy who came to kill and destroy,” said Michael Marcavage, president of Bibles for Refugees. “The Lord not only impressed upon my heart to pray, but to act in reaching these devastated people with the words of Life.”

“Humanitarian assistance shows love in a practical way that will last temporarily,” World Mission Executive Director Greg Kelley told Christian News Network. “The word of God in their own mother tongue language will provide hope and transformation that is permanent.”

Refugees pdHe said that the audio Bibles, called “The Treasure,” are especially needed in Iraq and Syria since of many those who have fled are illiterate.

“Among Iraqi refugees there is a very high concentration of oral learners,” Kelley explained. “Although these oral learners may not read a Bible, they will be deeply touched by listening to the precious word in their own language.”

He noted that, in his experience in other nations such as Nepal, Sri Lanka and in the African Congo, the Bibles are generally shared in listening groups, which gather together to hear to the word of God.

“On average, a single Treasure is used in a group of 10-12 people that will listen for 1-2 hours at a time,” Kelley stated. “Leaders who provide oversight for these Treasures will launch new groups each month. So, at the end of 12 months, 144 people are being ministered to by a single Treasure.”

“The joy of listening to the word of God in their mother tongue language is difficult to describe,” he continued. “Imagine never being able to read (2/3 of the world are oral learners) and hearing the Bible for the first time! Johannes Gutenberg’s invention of the printing press around 1440 was instrumental in the Protestant Reformation. In a similar way, the Treasure is providing millions of people around the world with historic access to the word of God.”

Marcavage said that while the organization plans on working alongside others providing humanitarian aid, Christ reminded His followers that “man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4)

“While we will go in part to help meet the physical needs of the people, above all, the Iraqi people need the daily bread of God’s word,” he said. “Lord-willing, we hope to take these audio Bibles to northern Iraq later this year and put them in the hands of a people who have been more devastated and displaced than any other people group.”

Marcavage stated that Bibles for Iraq seeks to raise funds for the distribution of at least 2,000 audio Bibles, or $30,000. As of press time, the ministry has raised nearly 60 percent of its goal, with almost $18,000 donated in support of the project.

“We desire to impact millions of people in Iraq. They have endured so much tragedy,” Kelley said. “There is nothing we could provide that is more loving than the word of God.”

Editor’s Note: To help give an audio Bible to a refugee in Iraq, please click here.


A special message from the publisher...

Dear Reader, our hearts are deeply grieved by the ongoing devastation in Iraq, and through this we have been compelled to take a stand at the gates of hell against the enemy who came to kill and destroy. Bibles for Iraq is a project to put Arabic and Kurdish audio Bibles into the hands of Iraqi and Syrian refugees—many of whom are illiterate and who have never heard the gospel.Will you stand with us and make a donation today to this important effort? Please click here to send a Bible to a refugee >>

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  • Josey

    “Betty, you’re very old and almost dead,” another email read. “How do you both feel knowing that America and the world will be a better place without you?”
    Well Betty, the world of unbelievers who do not repent and turn to God are about to find out what it’s like when all believers in Christ are removed from this world in which we are only passing through for God’s work anyway. Once all true believers are removed by Christ, this world will be a hellish place, they will eat those words and wish for death but death will elude them. Be encouraged for your stand, God shall meet your needs. God bless you!

    • LadyFreeBird<FreeInChrist

      Amen!

    • mark

      So the ONLY thing you know about “Betty” is that she refused a gay couple to be Wed on her property and on that basis God has a special place for her in heaven? WEIRD thinking.. Kinda creepy honestly.

      • Gary Daniel

        She has been persecuted for her faith. The Bible points out that they will have rewards for their suffering.

        • Elie Challita

          So you could be a perfectly horrible person, a secret domestic abuser, or even a criminal hiding their crimes, but as long as someone disagrees with your public religious persona you can assume you have a special place in heaven waiting for you?
          Charming

          • Gary Daniel

            Where did you get that?

          • magormissabib

            dont try to reason with them.

          • Robert49

            So you are in support of forcing people in to a binding contract without their consent?

          • Elie Challita

            No, I’m just in support of calling someone out for what I consider to be shameful behavior. You have every right to be homophobic, but don’t expect to dodge the consequences

          • Gary Daniel

            Funny, that’s not how gays looked at the AIDS epidemic.

          • Elie Challita

            Yes, AIDS victims have it so easy, don’t they? Did you want them to die silently instead?

          • Gary Daniel

            You are really off the point. I didn’t want them to contract AIDS in the first place. I don’t want them to die from AIDS at all.
            I was juxtaposing viewpoints on consequences. Nothing emotional about that.

          • Elie Challita

            Apples and oranges, I’m afraid. On the one hand, you have business owners publicly saying to part of the population “I think you’re subhuman and I don’t want your cooties in my store”.
            On the other you have a disease that can be sexually transmitted through homosexual or heterosexual contact, or by blood transfusions, or sharing drug needles.
            Why should people who have AIDS have to “suffer the consequences”? Would you say the same to a smoker, or an overweight diabetic?

        • Peter Leh

          i don’t think this is persecution… if one has choices.

          • Gary Daniel

            So it’s not persecution for the gay either?

          • Peter Leh

            i would not call it persecution, no. It would be persecution if there was no law to protect them from discrimination.

          • magormissabib

            ” persecution” refers to oppressing someone for their beliefs or
            ideas. We can and do and should punish people for destructive , harmful
            or antisocial behaviors.

          • Peter Leh

            “persecution” seem to mean nothing and everything in american christianity. It is embarressing the ignorance.

          • magormissabib

            If my point was not clear I will repeat it. Punishing people for anti-social or destructive conducts, like sodomy, is not persecution.

          • Peter Leh

            “Punishing people for anti-social or destructive conducts, like sodomy, is not persecution”

            Indeed it is. it is a violation of private property rights.

            sodomy is not anti social nor destructive, btw.

          • magormissabib

            Homosexuals spread disease. that alone makes it destructive and antisocial

            So punishing a rapist is a violation of property rights?

          • Peter Leh

            “Homosexuals spread disease”

            as do heterosexuals….. what do you suggest we do with us heterosexuals?

            “So punishing a rapist is a violation of property rights?”

            whoa.. dont jump off the deep end so quickly here. no need to put words in my mouth, that is unchrisitan. (or maybe it is)

          • magormissabib

            one in two homoz have aids , one in 10,000 heteros have it.

            yure the one who said it. dope: ”Punishing people for anti-social or destructive conducts…s a violation of private property rights.”

          • Peter Leh

            “Punishing people for anti-social or destructive conducts…s a violation of private property rights.”

            i did not say this. these are your words mixed with mine.

            dope? are we name calling now? tell me of this jesus you worship? 🙂

            “one in two homoz have aids , one in 10,000 heteros have it.”

            and more heterosexual women have aids than lesbians. If fact aids in the lesbian community is almost nil.

            what are we to do with us heterosexuals?

          • magormissabib

            Jesus would tell you the truth, Youre an illiterate moron. What does the *it*refer to in your statement; ” Indeed it is. it is a violation of private property rights.” Get lost now

          • Peter Leh

            “Get lost now”

            “Youre an illiterate moron.”

            Can i be a christian like you?

            did you learn insults in Evangelism Explosion? How is that working out?

          • magormissabib

            OOOH , you though being a christian was to be a mealy mouth kiss-ass like Joel Oesteen. Try reading the Bible instead. Deu_32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence;

          • Peter Leh

            “OOOH , you though being a christian was to be a mealy mouth kiss-ass like Joel Oesteen”

            lol you just can’t stop insult others….. that is a character flaw, my friend.

          • magormissabib

            gays should be put to death according to the word of God.

          • magormissabib

            The word persecution refers to oppressing someone for their beliefs or ideas. We can and do and should punish people for destructive , harmful or antisocial behaviors.

          • magormissabib

            Of course its state run persecution -forcing them to pay money to sodomites and lose their business for not participating in another mans sin.

          • Peter Leh

            “forcing them to pay money to sodomites and lose their business for not participating in another mans sin.”

            if baking a cake is participating in their sin then so is baking a cakes of a spousal abuser, or a liar, or a porn watcher, or one who covets.

            in addition the fine is agree to by the owner when he sets up the business. see you local secretary of state website for all the rules .

          • magormissabib

            dont be daft. how would you know.

          • Peter Leh

            I know because of how the argument is framed.

            all sin is sin, so should we not see consistency across the board from the business owner making that argument?

            if making a cake for a gay wedding is “participating in sin” how much more is the baker “participating in sin” from and adulterer’s wedding?

            and you know becasue this is the 2nd 3rd or 4th wedding cake one has purchased. right?

            this is how we know this is really a POLITICAL argument made by the owner and not a genuine religious objection.

          • magormissabib

            No stupid, You dont know what a person does in private just like you dont know by looking at him that a man is a sodomite. That is why it is not an immutable characteristic It is a behavior. The sodomite comes in proclaiming his sin and asking the baker to participate in it. to condone and approve of it. Im sure they would equally refuse to bake a cake glorifying pornagraphy or wife abuse if that is what you asked for.

          • Peter Leh

            “No stupid”

            stupid? can i be a chrisitan like you? if i do, can i call other stupid to show the love of christ? 🙂

            “You dont know what a person does in private just like you don tknow by looking at him that a man is a sodomite”

            does it matter? Is ignorance an excuse?

            If the standard of the chrisitan is ” not to participate in ones sin” then is it not important enough to find out if one is sinning? Sure the homosexual is “obvious” to the baker of his “sin”, but if you are telling me the standard is not to participate in ones sin and then “cherry pick” the sins based on ignorance… then you can’t make the statement “i do participate in other sins” because you do, dont you?

            the argument falls apart once you realize you have been participating in others sins ( by said standard mentioned) all along. 🙂

            but most likely you are just providing as service… to all.

      • Josey

        If she has accepted Jesus Christ as her Saviour and Lord and follows His word, I don’t need to know her personally at this present time, I’ll meet her in Heaven for she is my sister in the Lord. And yes,God does have a place for her in Heaven. Jesus Himself said in John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. Jesus is talking to all believers in this verse.

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Amen, Josey! God will not force those who reject Him into His presence for eternity.

      “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.” — CS Lewis

  • Mark Wilder

    Its a sad day when you can’t stand on your beliefs and are forced by the government to perform a service that goes against said beliefs! This Country is continuing down the wrong path and turning the constitution our forefathers created for us into a worthless piece of paper.

    • Cat Morse

      Then maybe you should run a religious business, not a public one. You don’t get to pick who sits at your lunch counter. We as a country decided that in the sixties.

      • Harry

        But no one exercising Second Amendment rights….

      • Streetglider7

        So…In the sixties “we as a country decided” that one couldn’t live their lives or run a business under Biblical principles? Many see these court cases as little victories. The world’s agenda will continue to advance for a time but as God has let the world know, there is going to be a day of reckoning.

        • Cat Morse

          “The government of the United States was not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion”.

          Treaty of Tripoli, 1796.

          So in reality? No, you can’t. You are free to live your lives however you choose. You cannot deny service to people based on your imaginary friend unless you are a religious organization.

          • Frank

            “The government of the United States was not, in any sense, founded on the Satanic Religion.”

            Corona Conference, 1969

            So in reality? Yes you can. Gays are free to follow their religion if they please, but they cannot force their religion upon others. You cannot walk into a religious-support business and tell them to provide materials that are required for another religion. Since homosexuality is itself a religion (ie not biological but instead psychological like all religions), you cannot walk into a christian book store and demand that the order qurans to also be sold at the book store. You have no right to stock the inventory of a business as you please so that they can always provide you things which you can easily get from other business that actually sell those things. There are so many homosexuals that you should be able to find people to support your religious rituals without seeking out persons who are not in the business of supporting your rituals.

          • weasel1886

            This makes no sense. Why would a gay person demand a store carry Korans ? No one can tell a store what items to sell

          • mark

            Homosexuality is a religion??? LMAO… This website is pure entertainment. Please tell me, who is our “gay god” that we worship?

          • The Last Trump

            Mr. Phallus. Hedonism. Pleasure itself. In all of it’s sick , twisted and perverted forms. S E X in general.
            Pick one.

          • mark

            my life doesn’t revolve around thinking about a phallus. i’m celibate. pleasure itself? what do you mean by that?

          • Phipps Mike

            Hedonism isn’t exclusively gays and in fact it wasn’t coined for gays. Hedonism is just the lifestyle of nudists in general.

            Oh, and when did sex become perverted? Its what makes babies and intimacy, stronger.

          • Marc Thomson

            Sex in general, please.

          • Marc Thomson

            Mr. Phallus?

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            Why do you come here, so high and mighty in your own mind, if you find this is entertainment?
            If you truly believe anything anyone is saying is so preposterous, why don’t you spend your time doing something more productive instead of bothering with people you think are fools?
            It’s sad if this is what you find to be entertaining, if this is what fulfills your existence…
            By the way, not everything everyone says represents the word of God, but in your own ignorance and need for a laugh, you will take it as such, not thinking any further beyond that.
            Because an intelligent person would just realize that no, homosexuality is not a religion, and not find it entertaining that someone has made such a comment – and they would not project that this comment represents all believers in Christ… or that at least everyone on this website shares that view.

            Your time to live is limited, and this is how you choose to spend it?

          • mark

            Yes! Just like how you wasted your time writing a short essay to an idiot like me! Lol

          • mark

            I am still laughing out loud that someone here claims that homosexuality is a religion. Just because our humor is different and you have a disability doesn’t mean you get to treat others like such a sourpuss.

          • Marc Thomson

            Perhaps, as so many Evangelicals do, he felt moved to share his reasoning? Weekly, I have some sect of Protestants actually knocking on the door to my home to “share” their time and beliefs with me. Again, the right to discuss your beliefs only belongs to you?

          • Marc Thomson

            I know, right? The bet example of a “straw man” argument I have ever read! LOL.

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            Go back and read your own comments – filled with copious amounts of logical fallacies!!!

          • Gary Daniel

            You site one treaty that was used because Islam cannot make treatise with infidels. That is more of the story to leave. That was put in to avoid perpetual war with Islam. President Obama says the same thing. He can’t declare war on Islam. We will never find an end. Unfortunately we are already in perpetual war with Islam.

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            If you had any sense of what research was, you would know that the Treaty of Tripoli had absolutely nothing to do with what our country was established on. But your so busy swallowing the drivel fed to you by the left, you are clueless. Go take a damn US History class, moron!!!

      • Angel Jabbins

        Nobody ever enslaved gay people in this country and there is absolutely no comparison to what blacks have gone through. It took the Civil Rights Movement many years to finally gain success because it was a grass root movement of just regular people, many of whom (I might add) were Bible believing Christians, like Dr. Martin Luther King, himself. No big money behind it…just little people who kept up the pressure for many years and it was a struggle all the way. The gay movement has advanced so quickly by the very fact that gays themselves are not truly discriminated against or under privileged. They are, for the most part, wealthy and have had big money (many corporations, Hollywood, and the Media) behind them. No grass roots…starting from the lower classes and struggling to get a hearing for many years…as with the black cause. If is disgraceful to even compare it to that. It really truly is!

        • Marc Thomson

          It is different, but quite comparable to the plight of Black Americans. Daily, gays still are beaten, shot, have our homes torched, are mugged denied jobs, housing and even our houses of worship. It is similar, but both histories of these oppressed minorities are horrific. What an insensitive comment to make in a comments section of a business discriminating against a minority!

          • Gary Daniel

            What an insensitive remark towards everyone else that has to deal with those issues.

          • Angel Jabbins

            “Daily, gays still are beaten, shot, have our homes torched, are mugged denied jobs, housing and even our houses of worship”

            Really? How come we don’t hear about it if this is happening on a daily basis? If all this was truly happening, why isn’t it splattered all over the nightly news? If it were, we would be getting a steady diet of it because it is so politically incorrect even just SAY anything perceived as ‘anti-gay’, let alone what you are describing.

            If gays are so persecuted and denied their rights in this country, then why are they at the top in earnings, wealth:

            “Among same-sex couples with both partners in the labor force, median household income is significantly higher ($94,000) than among heterosexual couples ($86,000). That’s likely due to a number of factors, but education is likely one of them, says Gary Gates, a distinguished scholar at the Williams institute and the study’s author. Around 46 percent of people in same-sex couples have college degrees, compared to under one-third of people in heterosexual couples. That higher level of education also likely contributes to higher incomes for same-sex households.”

            “LGBT people are more likely to have jobs than straight people…their unemployment rate 7% to the straights’ rate of 7.9%” according to CNN Money.

            So…they get higher paying jobs because they get better education. Now that doesn’t sound like being disadvantaged or discriminated against to me. How does this compare with the situation with blacks in this country today?

            “In 2008, 19.6 percent of all African Americans over the age of 25 held a college degree. This figure has in-creased significantly from 13.8 percent in 1996 and 11.3 percent in 1990. Despite the good news, the data still shows that blacks must continue to travel a huge distance before they reach parity with white Americans in higher education. Overall, 32.6 percent of the non-Hispanic white population over the age of 25 holds a college degree compared to 19.6 percent of adult blacks. This percentage gap has remained steady in recent years.” (Journal of Blacks in Education)

            “Although incomes for African Americans have improved significantly since the Civil Rights era, they are still lower then the average Americans. For example the median income for Black families is $20 thousand a year less than the American median income.” (from Black Demographics).

            Not just ‘different’…not comparable at all to the plight of black people who truly have been and still are discriminated against in a very real way. They can’t change the color of their skin and it is right out there for everyone to see. It is much more socially acceptable today to be gay than to be black. Blacks are still struggling in a way gays will never struggle. How DARE you even compare the two!! It is just ludicrous! But you have your agenda which causes you to ignore what true discrimination, true denial of basic civil rights looks like.

          • Angel Jabbins

            And even if there are many instances where LGBT people have suffered at the hands of people who hate them, it is has never been on the same scale of what black people have suffered for generations due to hatred, simply for the color of their skin. Skin color is something that cannot be changed. LGBT? It’s a choice people make as there is no proof of a gay gene. It really is all a matter of choice whether you want to accept that or not.

          • Marc Thomson

            Even if we are attacked it is not comparable? Do you read your own posts? What difference does it make if Asians are not as tortured, or transgendered not as lynched? The fact that they are is rather awful. Why do you need a scale of terror and pain to say oh, this group deserves not to be oppressed, but this group can suffer? You are free to believe that LBGT is a choice, but science disagrees with you. No psychologist, psychiatrist or social worker in the United States agrees with you. Here’s a idea, what if it was a choice (and it’s not) why is that choice not worthy of civil rights and a Baptist is? Is not a Baptist a choice?

          • Angel Jabbins

            You are comparing the Civil Rights struggle of the black people to the LGBT’s so called civil rights movement and there is no basis for comparison at all. Yes, all kinds of people are and have been victims, even attacked at times. People of faith have been attacked..churches ransacked and even burned down. Police officers have been hated and attacked recently. My Italian grandparents suffered taunts and discrimination. But none of these were on the scale of what happened to blacks in this country,…for generations! They needed a movement in order for things to change on a large scale. There is no need for a movement for LGBT…as I have already pointed out they are some of the most privileged wealthy people in our nation. Any acts of violence against them or any other group can be dealt with through the laws that are already on the books and those who perpetrate those crimes duly punished. It doesn’t take a huge movement to get that done. The laws are already in place. The LGBT thing is hyped up…its real goal is to change society’s view of perversion…to make it accepted and normal….even celebrated…and those who don’t want to go along with it…they will be discriminated against. Wait and see. There is no scientific evidence that LGBT..ism is hereditary…not one shred. Psychologists, social workers, psychiatrists…only recently changed their tune on this issue and do not base their new opinions (which is all they are) on science at all.
            It is a choice, yes just as it is a choice for me to be a Christian. And I will take whatever comes to me for that choice….yes, even hatred and scorn. If I am assaulted, I will not hesitate to appeal to the legal system to right the wrong just as every other citizen has the right do do. Blacks have fought long and hard for what they have achieved and are still struggling to live the American dream that the rest of us have been enjoying for a very long time. I really hate that you want to compare the LGBT propaganda campaign to their very real and worthy cause.

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            Baptists aren’t asking for special rights that don’t exist, where gays are. There is no mention of gays in the Constitution; however religion is blatantly protected under the 1st amendment. The Supreme Court had to make up a right through the 14th which states nothing about rights – only equal protection. And if “equal protection under the law” is all you’ve got, then you only give the right strength in the gun rights protections. If gays have a equal protection, then so do conceal carry permit holders. No state can deny the right of equal protection under the Constitution; and the 2nd amendment is a absolutely blatant right guaranteed under the Constitution!!! Hell, the gun rights activists have a better argument for this than the gays!!!

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            Marc Thompson, either cite your sources for your assertions to such, or accept the fact that you sir, are a LIAR!!!

        • Ambulance Chaser

          So if gays had been enslaved, it would be permissible to include them under the Civil Rights Act? Is having been enslaved the determining factor in whether a group should receive the legally – enforced right to get service?

          Or is it the grass roots nature of your movement? Is that the determining factor?

          If yes, why? If no, why did you bring them up?

          • Angel Jabbins

            Read my response to Marc below.

            Yes, being enslaved is a very big factor because that enslavement was soley for the color of one’s skin…which is out there for all to see and cannot be changed. And that enslavement went deep into the psyche of black people affecting them from generation to generation. And the prejudice against them was deep as well and still exists and, on some levels, is still holding them back.

            And yes, what I said about grass roots is important and does says a lot about the validity of a movement. Their struggle has come hard. LBGT’s are, in reality, people of great advantage. That is way big corps have gotten behind them to push their cause..money..they want to cater to them because it means more money from this new politically correct demographic they can now market to. Gays are ‘getting service’…they are doing quite well, while our black brothers and sisters still struggle in ways you will never understand or appreciate because you are fixated on your imagined civil rights plight…all the while enjoying the American dream in a way few blacks ever get to enjoy it.

            Yes, Yes, Yes! To both your questions.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            “Yes, being enslaved is a very big factor because that enslavement was
            soley for the color of one’s skin…which is out there for all to see
            and cannot be changed.”

            That’s nice, but you went straight off topic. I asked you whether “being enslaved” was the deciding factor. You said “yes,” but your reasoning is a non sequitur. So I’ll ask you again: Does a group have to be enslaved before they’re allowed the protections the Civil Rights Act affords? And if so, why?

            “And that enslavement went deep into the psyche of black people affecting them from generation to generation.”

            Are you asserting that Lamarckian evolution is true?

            ” LBGT’s are, in reality, people of great advantage. That is way big
            corps have gotten behind them to push their cause..money..they want to
            cater to them because it means more money from this new politically
            correct demographic they can now market to. Gays are ‘getting
            service’…they are doing quite well, while our black brothers and
            sisters still struggle in ways you will never understand or appreciate
            because you are fixated on your imagined civil rights plight…all the
            while enjoying the American dream in a way few blacks ever get to enjoy
            it.”

            Now you’re asserting that black people in America have it worse than gays. What evidence do you have for this being the case?

          • Angel Jabbins

            Yes, I am asserting that black people in American have it worse, much worse than gays. If you can’t see that, you are either blind sir or you live on the moon.

            Comparing Black Civil Rights to Gay Civil Rights:

            http://townhall. com/columnists/michaelbrown/2013/09/27/comparing-black-civil-rights-to-gay-civil-rights-n1710528

        • Peter Leh

          “Nobody ever enslaved gay people in this country and there is absolutely no comparison to what blacks have gone through”

          and you are correct. You know who else is protected and has no comparison to blacks? Christians.

          • Gary Daniel

            How is that? Obviously by this article they are not protected.

          • Peter Leh

            As citizen they have lost no rights.

            as business they violate equal protection laws. Equal protection laws they know very well and did not prepare to accommodate.

            apples and oranges.

          • Gary Daniel

            That still doesn’t describe how they are protected. I agree that their attitudes on gay marriage should have been more up front but then when society doesn’t reckognize gay marriage marriage and hasn’t for millenia, it wouldn’t seem important to do that.
            How were they protected again? Th he gallery owners I mean.

          • Peter Leh

            “How were they protected again? Th he gallery owners I mean.”

            well they are still christians are they not? they have not been forced to renounce their religion. They were not “forced” to do anything against their religion.

            as a citizen there was no violation of their constitutional rights.

            i mean a gay man cant walk up to you, a citizen, and demand a wedding service. you can tell him to take a hike.

            a BUSINESS on the other hand…. cannot. (without penalty)

            apples and oranges.

            “I agree that their attitudes on gay marriage should have been more up
            front but then when society doesn’t reckognize gay marriage marriage and
            hasn’t for millenia, it wouldn’t seem important to do that.”

            It is important from the issue of law. The owner knew that sexual orientation was now added to public accommodation laws in addition to age, sex, religion, disability and race.

            Yet they did nothing to prepare for it. Now that is not the states fault, that is on the owner. I suppose they thought the law did did not appply to their business (apples) because they themselves ( citizens ie oranges) were christian? i don;t know.

            what i do know ,as a business owner myself, is the resultant citation was expected and indeed administered. there was no surprise from those how own a business because the rules apply equality to all of us. 🙂

          • Gary Daniel

            I’m not so much in argument with what you are writing. What I’m getting at is the fact if I call a gay person fag or dike it’s hate speech but they call me breeder or red neck or Bible thumper and that would not be hate speech. Christians are not protected but certain groups are. That’s more my point. I had someone refer to me as an ignorant red neck on line. Don’t know what this person was all about. Resorting to calling me a red neck list whatever point he was trying to make. I personally don’t adhere to the concept of hate speech. If it’s a threat then it is assault. What a can of worms we’ve opened up. People are clamoring for segregation from the minority groups.
            Have a great day and may the Lord make his face to shine upon you.
            GD

          • Peter Leh

            “Christians are not protected but certain groups are.”

            of course i disagree. Perhaps this doom a gloom you have is being put there by people who make money off of doom and gloom?

            iE NOM, FRC, ADF, local pastors passing the plate. I bet this past sunday was packed and made a lot of money.

          • Gary Daniel

            It wasn’t packed at my church. It’s Summer and Christians go on vacation too. I think the outcome was no surprise. The deck was stacked against us.

          • Peter Leh

            in general those against equal protection have historically been overturned. So yes, the deck so to speak was stack against those supporting discrimination. 🙂

            so why do you think chrisitans citizens are not being protected ?

          • Gary Daniel

            Actually you were the one who claimed Christians are protected. It’s up to you to back up that proposal. There is no equal protection when it comes to religious services. The Supreme Court has 2 dukes and they have already performed gay weddings. They should have recused themselves. They obviously were already biased to an outcome. Activist Judges in the Supreme Court brings on Bastille Day for America. We don’t need more corruption.
            Discrimination, that word is as watered down as Nigger.

          • Peter Leh

            “Actually you were the one who claimed Christians are protected. It’s up to you to back up that proposal.”

            indeed i did. i have yet to see as a chrisitan or business owner any violation of equal protection of religion.

            “There is no equal protection when it comes to religious services.”

            sorry, i dont know specifically what is being referred to here.

            “The Supreme Court has 2 dukes and they have already performed gay
            weddings. They should have recused themselves. They obviously were
            already biased to an outcome.”

            seems to me to be as biased as the judges who only performed heterosexual marriages. Did these judges perform the SSM illegally? If so i can see the argument.

            “Discrimination, that word is as watered down as Nigger.”

            i dunno that last word sent chills down my spine while the first did not? 🙂

          • Gary Daniel

            Apple’s and oranges…liike gay and black.

          • Peter Leh

            that is right.

          • Peter Leh

            in a a way, yes.

            equal protection : they are both fruits

            blacks and gays the same? the same as an apple and orange

            men and women the same? the same as an apple and orange

            aged and disability the same?the same as an apple and orange

            yet apples and oranges are fruits: equal protection

          • Angel Jabbins

            Blacks cannot help the color of their skin….no choice on that whatsoever. Christians make a decision to follow Christ and no one should become a Christian without counting the cost. That said, as Christians, we are still citizens of this country and as such, we can vote, express our opinions, and stand up for our rights as any other group is free to do in this country. The black people…for a very long time…were denied the most basic human rights and treated like animals. So there can be no real true comparison between that black civil rights movement and the LGBT movement. That is all I was trying to say and it is valid since gays are for the most part are faring quite well..much better than most blacks in this country today. (See statistics I cited above.) Gays have never experienced anything as dehumanizing and I would think that would be evident to everyone if they know their American history. i am offended at the comparison to the Civil Right Movement which incidentally was led by a Christian whom we all revere today. (at least most of us do)

          • Peter Leh

            “the black people…for a very long time…were denied the most basic
            human rights and treated like animals. So there can be no real true
            comparison between that black civil rights movement and the LGBT
            movement.”

            on a comparison level i agree. but the comparision does not keep one out of the protected groups.

            the very fact the is protection groups gives testimony that when given the opportunity to do the right thing those in power did not.

            “Gays have never experienced anything as dehumanizing and I would think
            that would be evident to everyone if they know their American history.”

            perhaps if you talked to you homosexual friends, they may enlighten you?

            we already have documented ” we dont serve your kind here.”

            homes are being taxed, and in most case lost, as an inheritance rather than transferred to the spouse

            without spousal rights it is well documented the times these “spouses” are not allowed to be present in the hospital room or make decisions by vindictive family members.

            until recently a “spouse” was unable to receive insurance benefits and still cannot in some states.

            i think i read there are over 100 benefits than can be received if SSM is legal.

            so is it the same as the black community? no. are the laws being equally enforced to all ameican citizens? no, hence equal protection 🙂

          • Angel Jabbins

            Wow…the examples of persecution you gave are pathetic. In most cases, all they need to do is put it in writing, see a lawyer to make it legal….hospital visiting rights, inheritance, POA’s, medical POA’s can be drawn up for any person one desires to make decision for them. Gay people are some of the richest, most privileged people in America today and big corporations know that and that is why they are catering to them to get their business. They never catered to the blacks in an effort to help them in their very real struggles. Pathetic….really pathetic.

            Where are LGBT people being told ‘we don’t serve you here”? In most every case where they have yelled ‘discrimination!”, the business owners DID serve gays all the time, but objected only to baking a cake or do a wedding service based on their religious convictions (which people are no longer free to have). You think that raises to the level of not being served at all, being told to go to the back of the bus, being told you have to use a special ‘black only’ bathroom?

            Whiny…whiny…there IS no comparison at all! It is all being manufactured and it is all about choice of lifestyle not about something unchangeable like the color of one’s skin.

          • Peter Leh

            🙂

          • Angel Jabbins

            Why Gay Is NOT the New Black

            1. There is no true comparison between skin color and behavior.

            Although gays and lesbians emphasize identity rather than behavior, homosexuality is ultimately defined by romantic attraction and sexual behavior. How can this be equated with the color of someone’s skin?

            2. The very real hardships endured by many gays and lesbians cannot fairly be compared with the monstrous suffering endured by African Americans.

            There’s a big difference between being able to enjoy a civil union with the same sex partner of your choice – and not being able to drink out of a water fountain, eat at a lunch counter, or use a rest room because you don’t have the right skin color.”

            3. Skin color is innate and immutable; sexual orientation is not.

            Contrary to popular opinion, there is no reputable scientific evidence that people are born gay or lesbian. Even the unabashedly pro-gay American Psychiatric Association stated that, “to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality.”

            4. Removing the unjust laws against miscegenation (interracial marriage) did not require a fundamental redefinition of marriage and family; legalizing same-sex “marriage” does.

            Removing the laws of miscegenation simply required the removal of anti-black bigotry (since a white man could marry a Native American woman but not a black woman), whereas legalizing same-sex “marriage” requires the redefinition of marriage (opening the door to polyamorists, polygamists, and advocates of incestuous “marriages,” who are already mounting their legal and social arguments) and the normalizing of homosexuality (beginning with elementary school education), among other things.

            Read complete article which expands on each of the above points here: (two pages) http://townhall. com/columnists/michaelbrown/2012/05/22/why_gay_is_not_the_new_black

          • Peter Leh

            again i never said they were the same.

            but to ignore the correlation?

            well it does not matter now does it? 🙂

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            That’s even true for heterosexual couples who live together and don’t want to actually get married – so your argument fails to prove that gays are unfairly persecuted or discriminated against – like blacks were and are!!!

          • Peter Leh

            “like blacks were and are!!!”

            did i say they were? i am well documented that the circumstances are not the same. except for unequal protection under that law.

            but it does not matter now, does it? 🙂

            “That’s even true for heterosexual couples who live together and don’t want to actually get married”

            true except for states with common marriage laws. homosexuals do not even benefit from common law statues.

            until now.

          • Angel Jabbins

            And, Peter, I never said Christians should be compared to the blacks. You said that. Never said anything of the kind in any my comments. Never talked about Christians and their need of ‘protection’. Is that the best you can do? Pretty lame, sir.

          • Peter Leh

            you missed the point.

            #1 gays being “disqualified” for equal protection because they have not ” gone thorough” the same discrimination and persecution is irrelevant.

            #2 equal protection laws include religion which also have nothing to do with or can be correlation with the black community.

            So unless you are arguing for religion to be taken off the list and lose the present protection we have, in the same way you can not use that argument to keep sexual orientation off. :0

          • Angel Jabbins

            Nobody is arguing for anyone’s true civil rights to be ‘taken off the list’. We are talking about a ‘movement’ here. Christians have no big movement going on to gain special rights. Gays do. Christians are standing up for the rights they already have, until now at least, always enjoyed in this country which was founded on Christian principles. Christians and gays have something in common in that they can appeal to the legal system to have their rights protected..existing rights. Gays are seeking something that is not a right, but a privilege that is not afforded to just any combination of people because they want it. A father cannot marry a daughter. A brother cannot marry a sister. A man cannot marry a girl. Two men and three women cannot marry. A man cannot marry 5 wives. In every other way they are already equal. If they are assaulted for being gay, they have the legal system just like I do as a Christian if that happens to me. Sexual orientation is a choice. Religion or lack thereof is a choice. Color of skin is not.

            You are grasping at straws.

          • Peter Leh

            “Sexual orientation is a choice. Religion or lack thereof is a choice.”

            and both of theses “choices” of lifestyles ( religion and sexal orentation) are now protected. if your argument is sexual orientation, being a choice should not be protected, then you must also argue to take religion off the protected list as well.

      • Gary Daniel

        Eating lunch is not a religious service. Remember, the church is all of God’s children.

    • DNelson

      “Its a sad day when you can’t stand on your beliefs and are forced by the government to perform a service that goes against said beliefs!”

      They weren’t forced, as the article clearly shows. They had a choice to make. They made it. As a consequence, they did not have enough customers, so now they are closing. That’s the way the cookie crumbles.

      • Ron

        They were discriminated against. They did not have a choice. They had to stop doing weddings and that was their money maker. That’s why they had to close. If they were on level ground they may have still be open. No one will know now.

        • DNelson

          “They were discriminated against.”

          Every business has to follow the same rules. They were not discriminated against.

          Of course they had a choice – they made it.

          “That’s why they had to close.”

          No, they had to close because not enough people wanted to do business with them, as they clearly stated in the article.

          “If they were on level ground they may have still be open.”

          They are. The rules apply to every venue that offers itself up to the public for weddings.

          • Gary Daniel

            Why the he’ll do we need rules telling us how to run our business how we want to. Let’s make some rules on conduct of gay people.

          • Phipps Mike

            how about SCOTUS just allowing federal rights of gay marriage and get this all over with.

          • Marc Thomson

            These people would still be free to set up a private “club” status and sell their weddings as they were before.

          • Gary Daniel

            After having your life threatned it might put a damper on it.

          • Phipps Mike

            True, but my point is that if it gets legalized federally, then there’s a good chance that Gays wont be out to bring bigot businesses down.

          • DNelson

            If you don’t care for the rules that govern commerce, you are certainly free to work to get them changed.

            “Let’s make some rules on conduct of gay people.”

            Gay people who operate businesses operate under the same rules as other business owners.

        • mark

          They chose to not continue because they knew they’d have backlash. Look at your beloved memories pizza, they chose to stay open…

          • Gary Daniel

            Why compare the 2? Ah, both singled out by agendas. One serviced one didn’t. The one that didn’t failed because they were expected to go against their religious doctrine by the government. There is no national religion. Only the Constitution. It has amendments the 1st one being about religious tyranny and free speech. The 2nd about political tyranny. When the government gets involved with people’s daily lives as per religious practice, they have violated both.

          • mark

            I love when conservatives use the word agenda like it’s some sort of evil word. Everyone has an agenda. Your agenda is talking about your perceived gay sex acts about “BATHING in feces.” Yes, YOUR quote, before this site wants to ban me for saying that

          • Gary Daniel

            I’m not Conservative. If everyone has an agenda, why would you question my use of the word. It was appriate to you. You are arguing with yourself on that point. As far s quoting me? I didn’t make that statement. I said S%*t babies. You’ll have to take that up with the author of the quote.
            2 strikes. Anything else I can help you with today?

          • Phipps Mike

            agenda IS an overused word and has negative connotations. How about just saying “goal”?

          • Gary Daniel

            Sure, change my understanding of the English language. I’m gonna do that , right.

          • Phipps Mike

            I’m not trying to tell you how to talk, I was merely validating the other commenter that the word “agenda’ has a negative connotation involved.

          • Gary Daniel

            Negative to you.

          • Phipps Mike

            AND millions of others who are politically activated. Agenda in politics is synonymous with “scheme” because the word “hidden” usually accompanies it (hidden agenda). Scheme is derogatory.

          • Gary Daniel

            I’m listening to Jerry Garcia. Deep Elem Blues. I suggest you do the same. Let that stress melt away with music, whatever you listen to.
            “Once I knew a preacher, preached the Bible through and true, went down to Deep Elem now his preachin’ days are through.”
            Whoa sweet mama. Yo daddy got them Deep Elem Blues.

          • Phipps Mike

            Interesting. I am all about music. Always have been. Its been the number 1 thing in my life. I play drums and have since I was 11 years old. My current wife is who got me into politics. Now the interesting part is that on the contraire,, I have less stress than most of the planet. I am very accommodating where most aren’t (hence the liberal in me). The grateful dead also are liberal. So since you like them, are you also liberal? yet a Christian who judges gays? Just curious.

          • Gary Daniel

            I bet you are good on those also. I really can’t identify myself politcally. Lots of gay friends comin up. I worked for Bill Graham for the 1987 season. I’ve seen so many things I wish I hadn’t. Musicians and actors are weird at times. Goes with the territory.
            All my opinions about gays and everything else comes from scripture. Sometimes I’m liberal, other times not. Either way I love you man. Just as Jesus loves me.
            May the Lord make his face to shine upon you.

          • Marc Thomson

            Gary, you are completely right! No business license should be giving to anyone who does not serve all American citizens. The customers have a right to their religion and no public business can shut them out. Of course a private business or a religion can serve only “members.” Public business benefit from the public market and must follow the Constitution.

          • Marc Thomson

            Well, Mark, they’d also not continue because they’d be criminals to deny service to citizens.

      • Gary Daniel

        You again. They were penalised by having to reckognise same sex marriage. The government telling religion what to do. Telling businesses what to do.

        • mark

          So you support businesses being able to run any way?? Like No Mexicans Allowed?

          • Gary Daniel

            Mexicans are not an abomination to God’s plan. No comparison. Gay is not a racially based belief. Gay’s of all colors join in the desecration. You cannot compare gay and skin tone or national oriigin. You are acting like those distinctions are equal. They are not.

          • mark

            Like Bob Jones being a Christian and prohibiting interracial relationships right…

          • Gary Daniel

            Well take that up with Bob Jones. If he preaches no mixing of the races then oh well that’s his right. Islam does the same thing about infidels and so do orthodox jews.

          • mark

            So your argument is that not supporting interracial marriage is OK because hey… Muslims don’t do it. ??? Wow, first time I’ve heard a Christian use Muslim customs to defend their own ignorant beliefs.

          • Gary Daniel

            It’s not my belief. It’s Bob Jones’ apparently. He has the right to believe that though. Much of the Bible can be interpreted in Strange ways. It happens all the time. You can’t run around picking wha,t beliefs you think are right for someone else’s religion. The government can’t either. I dare you homosexuals to go to a mosque and force them to reckognise practicing sodomites in their beliefs. Tell us how you do if you come out alive. You scream about equality for Gay’s in other people’s religions then get out to those mosques. Bring a big shrimp platter with you and a bucket of clams. Then eat with your left hand. As long as you are attacking people’s beliefs it would be unfair of you to single out Christians. Show is your dedication or is it easier to attack people who forgive you and love you as God loves you who won’t light you on fire in an honor killing.
            I believe that you are not a whiner but a coward.

          • mark

            Umm no homo has gone to a CHURCH so why should we go to a MOSQUE? This is a public business. You should use your brain

          • Gary Daniel

            You need to pull your head out. Mega churches are allowing practicing homosexuals to be members of their congregations. The Methodist church is now ordaining gay pastors. No gay has gone to a church. Keep advertising the idiocy of your stance. I like it.

          • mark

            I’m talking about getting married, you know, the topic of this article

          • Gary Daniel

            Right, and no Gay’s have not been in church services? Keep going man. You’re batting 1000!

          • mark

            No, no gays have forced a church to marry them against the church’s will as you seem to imply.

          • Gary Daniel

            That’s the whole argument about these people having to close their doors. It is also the argument against reckognising gay couples as marriage. They can go with civil unions but that’s not good enough. They have to change the definition of marriage to fit their needs. A small % of people want their relationships to be marriages. What is to stop the pc patrol from forcing churches to perform gay marriages as well or not offer weddings to the congregation. It is selfish and forcing a behavior on society that isn’t necessary.

          • mark

            Did you not read that this was NOT a church? Or did you choose to ignore that part?

          • Gary Daniel

            Right, it was people running a wedding chappel as per their religious beliefs. Was no other venue to go to? The government has no business telling citizens how to observe their faith. Go to the mosque and get a gay marriage there. Activism towards one religion is discrimination. Spread the wealth.

          • Peter Leh

            “Right, it was people running a wedding chappel as per their religious beliefs. Was no other venue to go to?”

            Daniel this is BUS 101. The laws and regulation are for ALL to read if you wish to open a business.

          • Phipps Mike

            ” They can go with civil unions but that’s not good enough. They have to
            change the definition of marriage to fit their needs. A small % of
            people want their relationships to be marriages.”

            They want the term to be marriage so they can get ALL OF THE SAME FINANCIAL BENEFITS as hetero married couples. Because the law is nitpicky about terminology, a civil union would not be recognized for financial benefits. Gays deserve ALL of the same benefits so its either re-write the benefits laws to INCLUDE civil unions, or just let them get married.

          • Gary Daniel

            My phone’s fuk’n up. It won’t go to some of your comments. Anyway, you resorted to attacks me personally and I don’t want to debate with you anymore. I don’t claim you lost the debate, the rules of argumentation do. Don’t be so snippy and people will take you seriously. Once you go to personal attacks it just backs up the stereotype of gay men being bitches.

          • mark

            my intent was never to have a real “debate.” have a good night.

          • Gary Daniel

            You have a good night also and the rest of the week to boot. May God make his face to shine upon you.

          • mark

            Having a nice fathers day with your godly children? Or are you enjoying chatting with a gay guy online? I love your priorities

          • Gary Daniel

            Now you want to dictate my priorities. Nice. I was not blessed with kids. I was blessed with physical injuries that make walking excruciatingly painful. I am a disabled American. Are you discriminating against the disabled? My Father died in 2009 by the way, and he lived on the West Coast and I don’t. Believe me….I would rather spend 5 more minutes with my Godly dad then ever use a computer again. Thanx for the well wishes on this day.

          • mark

            No I wasn’t discriminating against disabled people lol dont try and play the victim card about something i didnt even know. sorry that your disabilities have clearly made you bitter about the world. I can’t blame you

          • Gary Daniel

            Precisely, you didn’t know anything about me yet you made a comment about my priorities. Is talking to a gay person on Father’s day inherently wrong? That’s not my position at all. Now you have accused me of using the victim card. The statement I made about discriminating against me for my disabilities was ironic. I should have made that more clear. About my disabilities “obviously making me bitter about the world”? Where did that come from? I haven’t made any bitter remarks. We’ve been having this great exchange and now your attacking my attitude and motives and priorities. We are talking about the article I thought.
            Oh well, it was fun while it lasted but I don’t keep going when my character is being pulled in for your arguments. You just lost the debate.

          • mark

            We haven’t been talking about the article because you can’t even comprehend that this wasn’t a church…

          • Gary Daniel

            Wherever 2 or more are gathered in Jesus’ says he will be with us. That makes any place a church. Thhe Church is true people. It’s an olds church. I imagine it has a chapel. You brought you chapels. This isn’t about a building it I is about forcing people to offer something they find abhorant in their beliefs. Try making a Jewish run establishment eserve shellfish at your gay marriage there.

          • mark

            oh my gosh. so according to you my local mcdonalds can be a church if there’s 2 or more christians inside? come on gary…. you are grasping for straws.. and i never brought up chapels, you were the one that did that.

          • Phipps Mike

            “Wherever 2 or more are gathered in Jesus’ says he will be with us. That makes any place a church”

            EXCEPT in a PUBLIC SERVING business. As a business, you cannot be seen as a religious entity.
            The correct line is that 2 or more Christians that worship anywhere is a CONGREGATION…NOT a Church.

          • KenS

            The correct quote from scripture is: “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Matthew 18:20, Has nothing to do with calling them a church, just states that Jesus is with them as they are gathered in HIS name.

          • Phipps Mike

            I will take your comment as an FYI because you are in agreement with me. A congregation is not a Church. A Church is a man made dwelling designed for worship.

          • KenS

            No, I am not in agreement with you. The Church is all of the saved people in the world.

            Romans 12:5 KJV
            5. So we , being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

            1 Corinthians 12:12 KJV
            12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

            1 Corinthians 12:18 KJV
            18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

            1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
            16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

            I was simply correcting his scriptural reference and pointing out the error that that particular verse does not call them a church. My quoted scriptures give us the basis of why all saved people make up the Church of Christ.

          • Phipps Mike

            ok, but God nor Jesus has EVER called a congregation, a “church”. Chances are that the word didn’t exist back then.
            I still hold to the fact that more than one person worshipping together is a congregation and not a Church, for that very reason.

          • KenS

            The word did exist and Jesus used it. in Matthew 16:18 KJV
            18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

          • Gary Daniel

            Would there be people on this planet of ancient people’s believed that everyone should be homo? Not so ignorant after all. If you are going after Bob Jones then go after Judaism and Islam was the point. My other answer to you which I wrote first covers that aspect in more detail.

          • mark

            Who believes everyone should be homo?? Lol I’m “homo” and my goal is not to make anyone homo… You either are or you’re not. Man you need to actually converse with a gay person

          • Marc Thomson

            Oh, please Gary, no one wants everyone to be a “homo.” I, for example, would never date YOU. Please, stay on your side of the orientation markers.

          • Gary Daniel

            You missed the point entirely. Anyway, glad you wouldn’t dare me and I won’t be asking. Deal?
            I gotta get something done today but it was nice chatting with you. I love no matter what you do no matter if I don’t agree with it.
            Have a great day and may God make his face to shine upon you.
            Blessings
            GD

        • DNelson

          They were penalized because they broke the law. Do you not believe that businesses should be held accountable for breaking the law?

          “The government telling religion what to do.”

          They were not a religious organization. They were a business of public accommodation.

          “Telling businesses what to do.”

          If you don’t agree with the laws that are in place regarding how a business is to operate, you are certainly free to work to get them changed.

    • weasel1886

      The constitution spells out how to change laws. If they were a church I’d be with them, but they are a profit making business so they had to follow the law. No one made them perform a ceremony

      • Gary Daniel

        They would have if they hadn’t closed. Government needs to get out of people’s lives. You want the government out of your bedroom and then you want the government in our churches and the behaviours of the congregations.

        • Phipps Mike

          “Government needs to get out of people’s lives.”
          then that would include getting out of abortion issues AND gay marriages. Not allowing gays to get married IS intrusion.

      • The Last Trump

        Weasel is right. Christians need to organize and see to it that the law is returned to its original state. When it for countless generations defined marriage as between one man and one woman, long before this depraved generation overturned civilized laws and created this mad house we now find ourselves living in.
        I’m with Weasel! Time to force our elected officials to “represent” us, THE VAST MAJORITY, and right the wrong that has become the debacle liberals call “marriage” today.

        • Peter Leh

          we did that with Jim Crow remember?

    • Peter Leh

      “forced by the government to perform a service that goes against said beliefs!”

      The government does not do that. the government enforces the rules you agreed to in order to run a business.

  • markinPDX

    Sorry, but beliefs do not excuse discrimination. If you are not prepared to treat all of your customers equally, then you shouldn’t be in business at all.

    • nowonder

      so if a couple came in and said they want on their wedding cake i hate gays and the baker refused it is the baker in wrong standing cause they choice not to bake the cake from a purchaser.

      • weasel1886

        I guess if that happens we see how it shakes out. But in those cases the message on the cake wasn’t the issue.

    • Gary Daniel

      Really, go order a shellfish platter from an Islamic Deli.

  • markinPDX

    I’d also like to understand why it is that you get to cherry pick the biblical prohibitions/commandments that you will not cross. What about all the other things that are prohibited in the bible? Do you check to see if the bride is a virgin? If she’s not, do you then stone her to death as the bible commands? Do you refuse to marry men who have cut their beards? Do you refuse to marry people who have tattoos? Do you ever serve shrimp or lobster or ham at your wedding receptions? Do you refuse to marry people who have been previously divorced? Why can’t you just be honest and say that your religious beliefs have nothing to do with your discrimination and that gay people just make you feel “icky”?

    • Liz Litts

      You are an idiot with no Bibical knowledge–you are being stupid-not clever-all you and people like you are succeding to do is just get less respect for your ’cause’ because you are acting like spoiled whiney babies.

      • R34lly

        Well, there’s an erudite, reasoned argument if there ever was one. He was quoting straight from the bible, albeit not verbatim, and accusing religious zealots of hypocrisy. I guess you are just part of that hypocrisy and your ego is bent out of shape just because he confronted you with the simple truth. All you’ve got in reply is simple-minded abuse.

        • Ron

          You are close to being right with your answer but it seems that interpretations of the bible can only come from studying it and knowing the reasons for the writing that was quoted. I could easily pull words from any history book our any book for that matter and distort it if i didn’t study more in depth to see what the writer really meant and the context by which it was written in. But that seems to be the flavor of some people.

          • Gary Daniel

            Like the Treaty of Tripoli.

          • Phipps Mike

            oh pleasssssse. say ANYTHING to be in denial that some of the founding fathers were NOT Christian.

        • Gary Daniel

          My reply is not simple minded. Read it.

      • mark

        Yeah, nothing like a real Christian calling others idiots. Have you heard of the fruits of the spirit? I guess you haven’t really been born again

        • Gary Daniel

          Well, she’s right that some come off as whiney idiots. This particular case it’s this homosexual in every aspect,of life position.

      • weasel1886

        Jesus was pretty clear about divorce and it being adultery

        • Gary Daniel

          He was also clear that Homosexuality is an abomination of God’s plan.

    • Gary Daniel

      Christian isn’t Jewish orthodox. Homosexuality is an abomination to God’s plan. How can one be fruitful and multiply if there is no conception? S%*t baby doesn’t count. Oh, we also don’t stone to death Homosexuals so why would you cherry pick what anyone follows in their religion. If we went back to Leviticous you would already be dead. One of the ways Christians show their faith is through their actions. They could not doctrinely allow an abomination on their property. The government has no place telling them otherwise. That 1st amendment applys to individuals as well as establishments. The government has not established a state religion. Once they put their fingers in the pie they have crossed that boundary. It is the U.S. of America that should have been sued.

    • Phipps Mike

      “Why can’t you just be honest and say that your religious beliefs have
      nothing to do with your discrimination and that gay people just make you
      feel “icky”?”

      I have asked these people the very same question, dozens of times. I NEVER get an answer. 99% are probably guilty of that.

  • Dave L

    ““Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.” (Matthew 7:6, NKJV)

    • Peter Leh

      this is the verse that discusses bankruptcy?

      • Dave L

        This is a verse where Jesus expects us to withhold certain things from people who are pig like in their thinking. Because they will fail to discern the value and destroy it. Then they will also seek to destroy the person that sought to share it.

  • mark

    So how is them not making enough income and shutting down “the gays'” fault? Or are we just trying to rile up the crowd?

    • nowonder

      why is all the gay such cry babies they have to sue, are they so hurt they have to sue someone,its not like they havednt gone through other trails in life, but they got to act all hurt about it and sue a small business.if i sued everyone who said something or hurt my feeling i would be a millionare,get over things,quit miss treating others cause they dont agree with you.all they are doing is forcing their agenda on others and taking money for it and destroying lives,if someone dont marrying them how is their live so destroyed.its not.

      • mark

        Love your argument. “I know you gay ppl have gone thru other trials in your life so you should really just get over it!!” Lol

      • weasel1886

        Why do people use “agenda” as a negative ? Every group, religion, and even individuals have agendas. Why is it only used describing gay people ?

        • The Last Trump

          I think it might have something to do with the lie, “we just want to be left alone”.
          So VERY apparent now that that just wasn’t the truth.

          • Phipps Mike

            ” “we just want to be left alone”.”
            Trump, you know better than that.
            “left alone” means to let them get married, give them their benefits, stop preaching to them, and stop acting like they are freaks. ALL easy things to accomplish.

  • Shaunagh

    We as people are all allowed our religious beliefs there’s no need for people to become hostile or aggressive or send bullying hate mail

    • Goldie Chaplan

      and that seems to be the way the gay community is acting.

      • DNelson

        How do you know that the people who sent the email are gay?

  • DNelson

    Such is the way of business. If the public does not want to do business with you, your business closes. Their new business sounds like it should be a big hit!

  • Rosanne Young

    As a Christian, I do not condone Gay Marriage. Christians are on a battlefield with Satan..This couple is a wonderful witness for Christ…We all need to speak up..God Bless us all..

    • weasel1886

      What about divorced people?

  • Suzanna Brown

    Once again homosexual extremists destroy another business……

    • mark

      Did we read the same article? They shut down their business since they weren’t making money.

      • All In

        Paul, you keep denying gay oppression. You’d be up in arms if any gay businesses were forced to close because some Christians decided to make an issue.

        • mark

          I’m not Paul. Believe it or not there’s more than one person who doesn’t agree with this site’s views. And again I’m not understanding… This business did not shut down because of gays.

          • All In

            You aren’t fooling anyone but yourself.

          • mark

            Ok Richard. Please explain how they went out of business years later by not serving people they never served to begin with. Unless you acknowledge that a lot of straight people are boycotting the business too

          • All In

            As I said, you aren’t fooling anyone.

          • DalCowboys

            Psst, “Mark” is not me. I’ve never created an account on here and not made it aware, at least to you, of who I am.

          • KenS

            Read the article again, it states that they are not doing any weddings anymore, therefore, they are no longer getting money from the heterosexual wedding ceremonies that they were doing before they STOPPED ALL WEDDINGS! Is that CLEAR NOW!!!!! if they stopped all weddings, then they lost the income from the weddings (heterosexual) that they used to do!

          • mark

            Yeah, they CHOSE to stop doing all weddings… No one forced them to. Watch the anger btw

          • KenS

            That is not anger, it is yelling to get my point across, you were misrepresenting that they were still serving the the straight people, so I pointed out to you the error

          • mark

            No.. Im well aware they weren’t doing any weddings. And yet that was their choice… No one forced them to stop performing weddings

          • KenS

            Forget about anyone forcing, that is not what I had issue with. My issue was that you were misrepresenting the facts by saying that they are still doing weddings for straight people and then trying to say that they should not have gone out of business if they were still serving the straight people. The article clearly states that they stopped doing weddings (all weddings) and you were in your statements claiming that they should not have gone out of business because they were still doing weddings for the straight people, which was a flat out lie!!!! There I called you a liar, I was trying to be nice and say that you were misrepresenting, but that point was not getting through.

          • mark

            No baby, Im not a liar… I was proving a point that if this were truly BECAUSE of gays, they wouldn’t have gone out of business since they never served them to begin with. Kisses.

          • KenS

            First off, my name is Ken and your icon says that your name is Mark, so do not blow kisses at me, I am a male, and unless your a female with a males name, I do not appreciate the kisses. A simple God Bless or Thank you would have sufficed.
            Secondly, You have not proven a point, because if they were still serving the heterosexuals with their marriage ceremonies, they would not have had the lost income; therefore, no point has been proven. Your statement clearly states that they were serving the straight couples still when the article clearly states they were not, that is lying. Do I need to provide a definition of lie to you as well?

          • mark

            I’m making you gay… I already infected you. KISSES

          • KenS

            Nice comeback!

          • mark

            <3

          • mark

            How does it feel being recruited? You know you’re gonna think of me tonight when you go home from work…. You caught the gay from me baby muuuuah

          • KenS

            I guess we are done, since you havent replied to my second point.

          • mark

            I’m not going so search thru 50 comments to find what you’re talking about but if you wanna quote it in a comment I’ll address it

          • KenS

            I only had to go up 3 comments, but here it is for ya:

            “Secondly, You have not proven a point, because if they were still serving the heterosexuals with their marriage ceremonies, they would not have had the lost income; therefore, no point has been proven. Your statement clearly states that they were serving the straight couples still when the article clearly states they were not, that is lying. Do I need to provide a definition of lie to you as well?”

          • mark

            So you want me to feel bad that they CHOSE to stop doing all weddings? Lol

        • DNelson

          If a business owned by a gay person refused service to someone due to the customer’s religious beliefs, then that owner should be equally accountable under the law as any other business owner.

          The business discussed in the article shut down because they did not have sufficient customers to stay in business. It has nothing to do with “gay oppression”.

          • All In

            Gay oppression and suppression forced the business to close. That is a main tenet of the gay agenda.

          • DNelson

            “Gay oppression and suppression forced the business to close. ”

            What is your basis for that statement? The article does not state that.

          • All In

            Why don’t you read it again.

          • DNelson

            No need to. The article is quite clear: “announced that they are closing their doors due to lack of sufficient income.”

            I’ll ask again: what is the basis for your statement that “gay oppression and suppression forced the business to close”?

          • All In

            Had you read it again, you would have read:

            “She told the Daily Signal this week that in the months that followed, the business suffered because of those who hated their Christian stance.

            “They didn’t come in because the people who are against us are more vocal than the people who are in our court,” Odgaard explained.”

          • DNelson

            How does the fact that people did not support their stance an indication of “gay oppression and suppression”. How, exactly, did gay people oppress and suppress people from going to their business?

          • mark

            How can a business that never served homosexuals go out of business by not serving homosexuals? You make no sense.

          • Lark62

            Because there are a great number of people who will not patronize a business that discriminates, even if they personally are not the target.

          • KenS

            You are so dense that you can’t comprehend, that if they are no longer doing any weddings, they are now not serving the customers that they used to serve as well as the ones they did not serve!!!! It is not rocket science!!!

          • weasel1886

            Such as the natural of business

          • nowonder

            sometimes even paying for lawyers and even 5000 dollars can put someone in debt lets not forget the we menonites,

          • DNelson

            Defending one’s self when one has broken the law can be expensive. Oh well. It was a choice they made.

          • weasel1886

            Why is “agenda” used as a negative? Every church, religion, or civic group has an agenda

          • mark

            Right? A $5000 settlement is not gonna make you go out of business. Also, you can’t go out of business by not serving people you never served… Unless they want to admit straight people are tired of their antics too. But they have too much pride go admit such a thing.

          • DNelson

            They are just having a difficult time with the fact that their views are in the minority. They want someone to blame for their ever increasing irrelevance and decreasing ability to control the lives of others.

            Understandable. When you have been used to getting your way and that is taken away, people will sometimes react negatively – like petulant children when told they have to share.

        • mark

          I would serve any Christian, so no, your assumptions of me are not correct.

    • DNelson

      How so?

    • weasel1886

      Read the article. They weren’t making enough money. Open a non profit religious business and I support them

  • Dave L

    Headline: “Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Pro-Traditional Marriage Cake, And Is Denied Service By All Of Them.”

    From shoebat dot com website (search to read original)

    • weasel1886

      You are lying. He asks them to bake cakes with anti gay messages. Not wedding cakes.

      • Dave L

        I copied and pasted that exactly as stated.

        • mark

          So you’re flexing hour copy n paste skills And we’re suppose to get all rah rah riled up and upvote?

          • Dave L

            No. check out the web site and see if it matches your accusations.

          • Peter Leh

            lol

      • Josey

        Don’t the gays who ask for cakes to be baked for their unions ask that gay message be printed and supported from Christian baker? Hypocrisy.

        • weasel1886

          They is a vast difference in saying “congratulations Bob and Dave”
          than saying ” I hate gay people”
          No baker I know of has been asked to put anti Christian messages on cakes. Would you expect a Christian baker to put “kill all Jews Happy Birthday Adolf” on a cake?” I wouldn’t. Should that baker be sued?
          I don’t know why anybody would put nasty evil sayings on a cake.

    • DalCowboys

      The headline is misleading. They weren’t asked to make “traditional” marriage cakes. They were asked to make cakes with anti-gay messages on them.

      You really shouldn’t post misleading articles like that.

    • Peter Leh

      shoebat is a hack. he also said recently the gays should all be killed in brazil by a “righteous leader”.

      probably not one to quote positively from now on.

  • nowonder

    you know its all their agenda to sue these churches,cause how else would they know whom to contact and where to file these law suits unless all of them are getting together and targeting christian establishments.i say pray against them.god will avenege the beleivers but you got to pray.too long the church has been passive instead of being standfast.

    • mark

      It wasn’t a church….stop using your imagination and read the facts

    • Lark62

      This was a business. This was not a church. The building once housed a church, but the church was gone.

    • Peter Leh

      which church was sued, nowonder?

  • FoJC_Forever

    While the homosexuals continue to pervert and attack Christianity, the pagan religion of Islam continues it cancerous spread as well. There are numerous evils growing in America. So many are going to have the sudden realization that this is no longer a free country, but nothing more than a police state with a thin veneer of false freedom.

    • Dave L

      This is a quote from Martin Luther about Islam; “God’s wrath is greatest when He removes His Word or permits people to despise it. When the Greeks despised His Word, He took it away and gave them the Turk (Islamic Warriors ) and Mohammed.”

      • FoJC_Forever

        Jeremiah 6:10, Amos 8:11-12.

        Seek the LORD while He may be found.

        Judgement is coming.

    • mark

      Can you explain to me how homosexuals are ruining YOUR life besides you coming online to read embellished stories and subsequently getting outraged?

      • FoJC_Forever

        I’m not outraged. Outrage is carnally emotional. The wrath of mankind doesn’t accomplish the Righteousness of God. What I remind those who read is of the Word and Will of God.

        Those caught in the web of homosexuality can escape. They simply have to call upon Jesus of Nazareth for Salvation. He will answer. Jesus will deliver those who desire Freedom from the bonds of Sin.

        • mark

          Thank you for not answering my question.

    • Phipps Mike

      civil war may very well happen if things keep up like this.

  • Frank

    Thank you for your stand and may the almighty bless these religious persons for putting g-d over money, because true wealth clearly has a much different scale of measurement than the dollar

  • Faith Apostolic

    The homosexuals are so INTOLERANT.

    • mark

      All of us?

      • All In

        You are. You are here day after day demonstrating it.

    • Peter Leh

      how broad can you paint with that brush? 🙂

  • Phipps Mike

    “She told the Daily Signal this week that in the months that followed,
    the business suffered because of those who hated their Christian stance.”

    Huh? I thought Mennonites were the same as Quakers or Amish? Those are not Christians.

    • Dave L

      I’m interested in why some would think Mennonites, Quakers, or Amish are not Christians.

      • Phipps Mike

        I cant speak for others, but I thought that because with their lifestyle and their “communes”…I see them as cults. I seriously did not know they were based off Christianity.

        • DalCowboys

          All religions are cults…the only difference is the size of their “membership”.

          • Phipps Mike

            lol…I caught the subtle joke. What I mean by cult is that the people within the cult live in a commune of some sort. Most religions do not do this. I also believe that cults worship phoney Gods. Joseph Smith, Reverend Moon, David Koresch….etc

  • Emmanuel

    I would charge SSM couples 100x more than other couples, “Its all about the money.”

    • mark

      Have you thought of becoming a comedian?

    • Peter Leh

      Is integrity still a christian virtue? It is hard to tell from your responses Emmanuel?

      • Emmanuel

        It’s a joke Peter

        • Peter Leh

          my apologies. sry i missed it

          • Emmanuel

            No need to apologize. These issues get heated that a little humor is needed.

    • SpeakTruth

      Also against the law, sir.

      • Emmanuel

        LOL, damned if you do or don’t. So, make some money

  • Lark62

    Maybe if they had obeyed the command to rejoice with those who rejoice and leave the judging to god they would be fine.

    This is a business. In this country, if you operate a business you don’t discriminate. If you want to operate in a theocracy, try Saudi Arabia. Just make sure you follow the approved theism.

    • All In

      Maybe if the gays were tolerant of the owner’s beliefs and sought a venue elsewhere this wouldn’t have happened. All this demonstrates is gay intolerance, oppression and vindictiveness.

      • Lark62

        Just like those intolerant blacks who thought they should be served at lunch counters. They should have just found somewhere else to eat.

        And those intolerant irish catholics who should have looked for work somewhere else when faced with signs “irish need not apply.”

        And those intolerant jews who should find another place to buy groceries.

        We have laws against discrimination because through painful trial and error we have found that the best society for all is one where business owners treat all customers equally.

        “Treat me like you treat others” is not vindictive.

        • All In

          >Just like those intolerant blacks who thought they should be served at lunch counters

          You are mixed up. Blacks are a race of people. Homosexuality is a behavior. This is like equating women with incest.

          God’s laws supersede anything sinful man legalizes. Christians honor God above anything man-made.

          > “Treat me like you treat others” is not vindictive

          Making an issue because of religious beliefs is vindictive.

          • weasel1886

            Be a Christian is a behavior. So we shouldn’t have civil rights protection for Christians?
            There is no such thing as race

          • All In

            As a religious belief, it is a behavior.

            Of course there is such a thing as race. Look it up in the dictionary.

          • weasel1886

            I don’t care what it would say. Biologically and genetically there is no such thing.
            It is a made up construct used to divide people. Find it in the Bible, you won’t.

      • weasel1886

        Maybe if those blacks folks in 1956 were tolerant of the white owner’s belief’s just found other restaurants, toilets, and hotels this civil rights stuff wouldn’t have happened.
        All this demonstrates is black intolerance, oppression and vindictiveness.

        Oh I get it now

        • All In

          You, too, are confusing race with behavior. A convenient error posited by gay proponents.

          It’s worth pointing out that doing so is lying. Another common gay supporter tactic in an attempt to oppress all beliefs to the contrary. Hardly tolerant, loving, and trustworthy behavior.

          • DalCowboys

            Sexual orientation has never and will never be a behavior. The act of engaging in intercourse is behavior, while orientation is simply what gender(s) a person is attracted to.

          • mark

            Exactly… These people should really look up homosexuality in the dictionary.

          • DalCowboys

            Well, to be fair, for some reason he thinks you and I are the same person. Go figure. You’ll find that if he disagrees with someone, he accuses them of being me using another account to make it appear that atheists are more numerous than we really are.

          • mark

            who, All In? yeah, he thinks we’re all “Paul” since we disagree with him… and how could more than one person possibly not agree with him? LOL the funniest part is you ask him about his own sexual orientation and he says he chose to like girls over guys yet you ask him about that decision and why and when etc and he changes the topic

          • DalCowboys

            He and I have “history”, if you will, on here. And yes, that is a common tactic he deploys.

          • All In

            It’s always been a behavior. No one forces gays to act on their desires.

          • weasel1886

            “Hardly tolerant, loving, and trustworthy behavior.”
            Then you call me a liar ?! But you can’t explain where I am wrong ?

            You must not read or believe what you post
            BTW There is no such thing as race.

      • DalCowboys

        The only intolerance on display is that of someone who willingly breaks the law in order to refuse service to a paying customer based on no other reason than the customers sexual orientation. That is the definition of intolerance right there.

        Oh, fyi…”waves” Your favorite poster.

      • SpeakTruth

        People should not be forced to call every business to ask if the business in question discriminates before seeking service. That is just ridiculous! How are people supposed to know which businesses discriminate and which businesses don’t before entering?
        Here is a thought: how about the Christian for-profit business owners just follow the same rules and regulations as every other for-profit business owner?

      • Peter Leh

        “Maybe if the gays were tolerant of the owner’s beliefs and sought a venue elsewhere this wouldn’t have happened.”

        if only the blacks would have seen the light and done this as well. 🙂

  • Walhei

    None of these incidents happen by chance. Homosexuals seek out Christian businesses to sue. It is about making money, not about rights. There are plenty of venues catering to homosexuals.
    What does darkness have to do with Light? Homosexuality cannot exist with Christian principles, homosexuals must destroy Christians, just as Satan wants to destroy Christians.
    Goodness and love of God, cannot exist with Hate, Perversion, and Satan worship!
    Thanks to Democrats, Progressives, and National Progressive Media, a very small minority of Americans are allowed to destroy the great majority of good Americans. Thanks to Democrats, 250 years of tradition, goodness, and high ideals are being destroyed by two or three percent of the population!

    • DalCowboys

      Seeking out a pretty place to be married at isn’t “targeting” anyone. This company chose to discriminate, plain and simple. They are not a church. They are not a non-profit organization. They chose to run a business, and in doing so, agreed to abide by the laws governing commerce. Why you think your religious beliefs give you the right to discriminate against anyone you choose is beyond me, but the law isn’t on your side on this.

      • Walhei

        The Constitution guarantees Freedom of Religion. People have a Right to discriminate against, what they see as Evil.
        The Civil Rights agenda does not replace Constitutional Rights!
        Businesses have always had the,” Right to Refuse Service to Anyone.”
        This whole LGBT movement is false and a lie. It has gained power through intimidation, and support of Democrats, only for the votes of LGBT.
        We are a nation who’s laws are based on majority rule, but Democrats have manipulated, schemed, and lied, to give minorities rule over the majority.

        • DalCowboys

          Sorry Walhei, but that’s incorrect. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 does NOT give a business the “right to refuse service to anyone”. I would invite you to read up on what that changed in regards to the relationship between consumers and business owners.

          Also, we are NOT a “majority rule” country. SCOTUS has had to step in several times. Jim Crow laws are a prime example of this.

          Regardless, if “sexual orientation” is a protected status in the state/county/city where a business resides, they are subject to that law, plain and simple.

          • Walhei

            Like a lot of laws passed by Democrats, they had two purposes, had hidden agenda’s. They are schemes to take down American Morality.
            Of course most Americans are/were too good to understand these schemes. Those laws seemed right, at that time. Now we know they had nothing to do with normal civil rights, but were designed to protect immoral and evil behavior.
            Just like, hate crime laws of today. Hate crime laws are selectively enforced. They have nothing to do with general crimes of hate. But are really laws to protect criminals and persecute good people. Hundreds and hundreds of Black on White crimes are never investigated as hate crimes. But every White on black crime is investigated as a hate crime. Just another example of discrimination and hate, on the left.
            Same with Civil Rights laws. Designed to allow more discrimination against the moral majority of America. Allows evil behavior, allows spreading of diseases. Allows legalized hate against the Moral Majority. All Democrat schemes and lies.
            The Constitution take Precedence over recently passed, unfair, unjust laws.

          • DalCowboys

            Let me get this straight…are you actually suggesting that the Civil Rights Act was designed to protect homosexuals 50 years later?

          • BarkingDawg

            Like a lot of laws passed by Democrats, they had two purposes, had hidden agenda’s.

            Fun fact: 80% of the Republicans in the House and Senate supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Less than 70% of democrats supported it.

            Southern democrats were especially opposed to it.

    • Peter Leh

      “There are plenty of venues catering to homosexuals.”

      there are plenty of venues to cater to blacks and jews. what of it?

      if one in open to the public guess who gets the serivce?

  • Marc Thomson

    Rude and criminally offensive emails come from both sides of this issue, unfortunately, and no one has a right to slander and threaten anyone the way this couple had been. I’m sure they received many rational emails that were pro-same sex marriage, too. Let’s remember, this is not a church or a religion or a faith — this is a business that makes profits from citizens of Iowa in the open market place. If they wished to not do business with Jews or blacks or Asians or homosexuals, they could have formed membership rules and become a private institution. Then they could have discriminated against anyone they did not let be a “member.” Many men’s clubs and golf courses around the nation do this. Fees could be relabeled membership “dues,” however, they insisted on taking advantage of the public marketplace forum and its access to all citizens but they broke the law and did not serve all citizens. Betty’s complaint that she closed her for-profit wedding service was because they’d “be targets” is not true. If she continued to refuse service to Constitutionally protected citizens, they’d be criminals.

    • Peter Leh

      Marc stick around you are singing my song

  • BarkingDawg

    So I guess this is an example of the free market at work.

    As I understand the argument from many conservatives: economics and the free market have nothing to do with religious beliefs.

  • Gena B

    God closes one door sometimes to open another door. They could open the doors for a Christian retreat, something for the kids or open the church doors, God gives us opportunities.

    • Peter Leh

      indeed. the choices and opportunities abound!

      • BarkingDawg

        but not the money, sadly.

        • Peter Leh

          i have had my share of cuts. but i refuse to have a negative attitude. There is plenty on money to be made. 🙂

  • Peter Leh

    Poor business decisions will shut a business down…

  • magormissabib

    GOD HATES FAGS

    • Diane H.

      Why God would hate his own creatures?
      God isn’t supposed to be LOVE?

      • magormissabib

        God made all things for his glory. He is good and righteous when he destroys the wicked and he is good and kind when he bring some to repentance.

        • Diane H.

          Sad, because you’re so brainwashed.

          • magormissabib

            You are brainwashed. You encourage a disgusting sin God calls an abomination because you were told to by the media. God hates [email protected]

          • Diane H.

            So, God is full of hate toward homosexuals….but he created them the way they are???
            I don’t see why I would *love and respect* this kind of cruel god….

          • Diane H.

            And so, religion taught you to hate!!

          • magormissabib

            Exactly: Hate the evil, and love the good, ( Amo_5:15 }
            Unlike you: Who hate the good, and love the evil; (Mic_3:2)

          • Diane H.

            “The West Wing” (TV series); “The Midterms”:

            “President Josiah Bartlet:
            Good. I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an abomination.
            Dr. Jenna Jacobs:
            I don’t say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.
            President Josiah Bartlet:
            Yes, it does. Leviticus.
            Dr. Jenna Jacobs:
            18:22.
            President Josiah Bartlet:
            Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I had you here. I’m interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be? While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I
            morally obligated to kill him myself, or is it okay to call the police?
            Here’s one that’s really important ’cause we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this town: Touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small
            family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads?
            Think about those questions, would you?”
            It might be just a TV show, but the Bible verse are REAL. So tell me, magormissabib, since you believe so much in the verses of Bible, would you also follow the ones above….??

          • magormissabib

            Youre kidding me right, Youre gonna get your Bible education from a fictional show on TV.No wonder you support sodomite marriage.

          • Diane H.

            Did you at least read the verses I quoted? Did you?
            Even in a TV show, they are real.
            Please go check, Leviticus 18:22 – Exodus 21:7 – Exodus 35:2 – Leviticus 11-7. and tell me they aren’t real? or maybe I know more than you about your Bible???? If you cannot recognize it is true, then you are dishonest!

          • magormissabib

            So youre digging thru scripture to try and find things to defend sexual immorality You know nothing aobut the bible when you get it from the tv. Whats more pointing out others faults does not justify your own- even if you were correct.

          • Diane H.

            You are not answering my question. Did you find the scriptures I told you about? Those verses might be true, cause they are from the Bible. What do you have to say about them? If the verse about homosexuality is word of God…..then the verses in my message of yestarday are words of God too.

            Selling your daughter in slavery, killing the one who works during the Sabath, stoning someone for planting different crops side by side? Would you do that, cause it’s Gods’ words????
            There are stupid and really outdated things written in this book, don’t you think? so what it’s said about homosexuality is probably obsolete too.

          • magormissabib

            I dont answer because it has been answered a million times. If youd actually read the Bible instead of watching TV you would know the answer and know that they are stupid questions. Slavery was a capital crime in ancient Israel, the verse you are referring to is talking about sending her to do service in the Temple.Not slavery . The sabbath was fullfilled in Christ and it never applied to non hebrews, The ceremonial and dietary laws do not apply today but the moral law does. The moral law is reiterated in the New Testament The ceremonial laws are done away with.

          • Diane H.

            So, some of the most absurd verses “don’t apply today”, as you say, but it’s Gods word, no matter….
            Maybe the verse about homosexuals doesn’t apply either, don’t you think?
            I guess if Jesus would come back today….he would be the first to ask you to show compassion and love for others who are different from you.
            Shame on you. To hate homosexuals is a big sin, like if you would hate black people.

          • magormissabib

            Christ was clear about sexual immorality. You know that. You just dont like it. No fags in heaven.

          • Diane H.

            You’re still don’t answer my questions. It’s a shame that your washed brain made you lose all critical sense!
            And you just pick and chose in the Bible whatever suits your homosexual hate’s agenda.
            I rest my case. It is useless to continue the discussion. You’ll get the pleasure of the last word! ;o)

          • magormissabib

            I did answer your question Hate has blinded your ability to understand.

  • Titan000

    Oh great now they either have to participate in the underground economy or the black market to do their stuff.

  • PastProdigal

    Story after story after story…of good and decent people being targeted, persecuted, and destroyed by lgbt maniacal bullies.

    All of these stories should be gather together and sent to every public person who claims to be level-headed, some even claim to be Christians, and they should be forced to read them in total, out loud, on air. And then tell us again the homosexual “marriage” isn’t going to hurt anyone else and that they still support this travesty of justice.