Report: American Pastor Imprisoned in Iran Facing New Danger After Iran Nuclear Deal

Abedini 4KARAJ, Iran — A legal organization that has been fighting for the release of an American pastor imprisoned in Iran says that the pastor is now facing new danger over the recent U.S.-Iran nuclear deal.

The American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) outlined in an update on Thursday that after word of the agreement reached the ears of those incarcerated in Rajai Shahr Prison, it reignited Iranian animosity toward the United States.

“Pastor Saeed revealed that since the deal was announced yesterday, many in the prison are expressing anti-American sentiments,” wrote ACLJ Executive Director Jordan Sekulow. “Tensions are high inside the prison and he told the family member during today’s visit that not only does he feel threatened, but believes he is now a target because he is an American citizen.”

As previously reported, Saeed Abedini, a former Iranian Muslim turned Christian, left Iran in 2005 and moved to the United States with his wife and two children to find religious freedom after facing conflict with authorities for planting house churches in the county. In 2012, he traveled back to Iran to build an orphanage and visit his parents—and was about to return to the states—when he was taken into custody.

Abedini was later charged with threatening the national security of Iran, and for attempting to turn youth in the nation away from Islam and toward Christianity. He was then sentenced to eight years in Iran’s notorious Evin Prison, but was transferred to to Rajai Shahr Prison in 2013, which was believed to pose an even greater threat to Abedini’s health and safety. He has reportedly experienced numerous brutal beatings behind bars from both the prison guards and his fellow cell mates.

Along with the ACLJ, Abedini’s wife has been urging the American government to push for his release, speaking before Congressional committees and meeting with Barack Obama and other members of his administration. She says that while she understood from talks with the State Department that the Iran deal was not going to include negotiations surrounding her husband, she still wants to press the nation’s leaders for Abedini’s release.

“I’ve never wanted my husband to be part of having to give up something, our government and the rest of the world, for their release. And I didn’t want that to be used as part of the deal,” she told CNN on Wednesday, but also noted, “I think the nuclear deal has made [securing his release] more difficult.”

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“I had a call with State [Department officials] and they are working on it,” Abedini continued. “They couldn’t promise me a timeline. They couldn’t promise me his release has been secured, but that they are working on it—that it is a top priority.”

Abedini was speaking in regard to an explanation that Barack Obama provided on Wednesday in response to allegations that the U.S. government is complacent about the release of Abedini and other jailed Americans in Iran since they were not included in the deal.

“The notion that I’m content as I celebrate with American citizens languishing in Iranian jails … that’s nonsense, and you should know better,” he said. “Nobody is content, and our diplomats and our teams are working diligently to try to get them out.”

“Now, if the question is why we did not tie the negotiations to their release, think about the logic that that creates. Suddenly Iran realizes, ‘You know what? Maybe we can get additional concessions out of the Americans by holding these individuals,'” Obama explained.

Abedini himself has also penned a letter surrounding the Iranian agreement and is encouraging his supporters to continue praying.

“I know that so many of you have felt that I have been left behind after a deal was reached with Iran and I am still not home,” he wrote. “I want you to know that as I wrote the thank you letter to President Obama after he had visited my family in January of this year (which he read at the National Prayer Breakfast), that God is in control of all countries and leadership in the world when the body of Christ comes together in united prayer.”

“We are all looking for a safer, more friendly world, and because of this desire, many of us are happy and others un-happy about the deal,”Abedini continued. “Please join me in using these emotions that have been awakened to give fervor to united prayer for God’s chosen people, America, and for the whole world.”


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  • JKomar

    Who cares? If people don’t want to do a job, then they should just find another one like everyone else. No big deal.

    • folasade

      this is a big deal. thats great for them standing on their conviction s

    • IprefertobeAnonymous

      In this job market, it’s a very big deal. They are taking a huge risk.

      • BarkingDawg

        Think of it this way. Three different people now have a chance at a good job.

  • dpercd

    JKomar, their are a lot of people that care about this matter. Apparently, you have not been paying attention.

  • DNelson

    Good for them! if their beliefs are in conflict with the duties of their job, they should seek employment elsewhere.

    • The Last Trump

      AND THEN use all of that free time to work tirelessly to return the duties of those jobs to their former legitimacy and integrity. I hear ya! I like where your head’s at!
      If gays could change thousands of years of tradition overnight & all of that eh!
      I think you’re on to something there… 😉

      • DNelson

        “AND THEN use all of that free time to work tirelessly to return the duties of those jobs to their former legitimacy and integrity.”

        The job is the same was it was before. Perform the duties of the clerk in accordance with the law.

        “If gays could change thousands of years of tradition”

        Gays didn’t do that.

  • Judy Jacks

    Before this ruling did they issue marriage licenses to previously divorced individuals? Do you actually think that God has more problems with gay marriages over divorce/remarried which would than be adultery? Jesus didn’t get involved with the Roman government rules and regulations. If you have any Biblical references where He did, please provide them.

    • Matthew Holmes

      So you’re saying your answer to wwjd would be to marry two gay people? That’s what Jesus would do? Naaaaaaaaaa

      • Judy Jacks

        What I am saying is they had no problem advocating adultery but not homosexuality. Question though: Do you thing Lydia, the seller of purple fabric only sold her goods to Christians? If she sold to everyone, don’t you think some of her fabric was used in idol temples? She did not go and worship idol’s, just like these workers are not becoming homosexuals by doing their jobs.

        • Tex Mandel

          The difference is that homosexuality is an abomination against God. Adultery, fornication, and other sexual sins is not an abomination.

          • John Vogel

            Oh? I thought all sin was an abomination.

            Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

            1 Cor 6:9-10

          • Johan Roelofs

            Two people sinning is one thing but to make someone, even force someone to partake in that sin is something entirely different. This is what us happening in the US right now with gay marriage.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Uhm who forces you to partake in the as you call it sin?

          • Johan Roelofs

            Cake maker being sued because they did not believe in same sex marriage so did not want to bake a cake.
            Military clergy who do not believe in same sex marriage being sacked.
            Pastors or priests being made to perform same sex marriage against their religious convictions.
            What do you call this?
            There are plenty of cake makers and celebrants who will cater to same sex marriage couples why target those who don’t want to be a part of it. Why take away their rights which does not impact on whether same sex couples gain any rights of their own.
            This is what I am referring to. Allowing same sex couples to marry should not mean that people who do not want to play any part in it at all should be made to.

          • Dean Dixon

            Unless your in a 3 way you aren’t “partaking” Are you partaking now Johan?

          • Johan Roelofs

            Marriage is not sex. Contributing to a same sex marriage, whether it is a county clerk, a pastor or a cake maker should be up to the individual based on their concience and beliefs. Yet people are punished for not wanting to.
            You equating sex with marriage is really quite stupid.

          • Dean Dixon

            Discrimination is illegal. If your religion promotes discrimination then you shouldn’t be working in any service that would compromise your beliefs. I was being facetious about 3 way but your too wrapped up in your imaginary persecution complex to see that. If you don’t like the Constitution, you feel the need to discriminate by hiding behind your religion perhaps your should consider immigrating. The USA would be one moron closer to ideal

          • middledebo

            Some of you have some really odd ways of viewing this. This law does not force you to change anything about your beliefs. It lets people who have been discriminated against be able to marry who they love and to be able to be a part of all decisions that married people are legally allowed to make together. You all are letting your own judgments interfere with what the law says. You are still free to be a “Christian,” whatever that means to you. You just don’t get to judge others and be unjust to them. Nobody is forcing you to be around gay people and nobody is forcing you to do anything except let gay people be free to love each other. That really has absolutely nothing to do with you or your lives or beliefs unless you have a need to force your beliefs on others, which is what it looks like to me.

          • Johan Roelofs

            Cake maker being sued because they did not believe in same sex marriage so did not want to bake a cake.
            Military clergy who do not believe in same sex marriage being sacked.
            Pastors or priests being made to perform same sex marriage against their religious convictions.
            What do you call this?
            There are plenty of cake makers and celebrants who will cater to same sex marriage couples why target those who don’t want to be a part of it. Why take away their rights which does not impact on whether same sex couples gain any rights of their own.
            This is what I am referring to. Allowing same sex couples to marry should not mean that people who do not want to play any part in it at all should be made to. Marriage is not sex. To equate the two is ignorant at best.

          • Bastet’sMom

            Pastors and priests are not required to marry anyone against their convictions. Everyone in a public business is required to serve the public equally. Taxpayers support a public business (roads, police, fire, and yes, the salary of those clerks) and taxpayers are sometimes homosexual, sometimes black, sometimes Muslim.

          • Mixxmaster Shawn

            The bakery couple got sued because they posted the gay couple’s names and addresses on a public website which led to harassment and almost caused them the loss of their children.

          • Karen Berman

            Hogwash. It turns God’s word into a mockery. There was no discrimination. Just because someone does not let you live in your perversion does not make it discrimination. No civilization at any time in history has acknowledge that “gay” is a right to marry.

          • Tex Mandel

            All those sins, though “the practice” of homosexuality is included, are sins that will prevent people from going to Heaven if left unrepented. Out of the sexual sins listed in those verses, according to Leviticus 20:13 states that homosexuality is the only one mentioned to be an abomination. No where in the Bible, that I have yet to read, where it states that adultery is an abomination, or fornication is an abomination, or any other sexual sin. Only homosexuality. That is the point I’m attempting to make, but not to “down-play” any of the other sins, because any sin that is continually practiced without repenting will keep a person out of His Kingdom.

          • John Vogel

            Thank you for your reply… I believe bestiality is also listed as an abomination around the same passage… and a couple other sins… but as I am not able at the moment to access the Bible (on my phone at work.. on break) I can’t look it up right now. Be that as it may. I still wonder if God really sees homosexuality as a “worse” sin. I mean.. if someone has homosexual tendencies but does not act on them, are they still under condemnation? And can’t a homosexual repent?

          • Tex Mandel

            They answer to your question is yes. a person who has homosexual tendencies can repent and be saved. God does not see homosexual activity as the unforgiveable sin. If a person is a drunk, or adulterer, or a liar, or a fornicator, and so forth, continually repents of it, even after giving into that temptation, God will forgive them. This is just my opinion, I think the reason why God calls the sin of homosexuality an abomination or detestable, is because it goes against the very nature of the way He designed us.
            The answer to your other question about bestiality, according to what I read, homosexual is an abomination (or detestable) and bestiality is a perversion. Of course in God’s eyes, it doesn’t make it any less serious. All sin is very serious, and very serious consequences.

          • middledebo

            Tex, you are clueless. Homosexuality long ago has been proven to be biologically who you are. It isn’t something you “repent” from or are “saved from.” It’s not something that you can change. It’s who you are like being a straight person is who you are (I think). Of course that involves scientific data, something most of you don’t respect. Feel free to keep your views. Just don’t think you can force or project them on others. I’m sure there is not one homosexual who has ever come up to you and insisted that you become a homosexual. Get my drift?

          • Tex Mandel

            Now how in the world am I “forcing” anything on you? How am I “forcing” anything on anyone here? (In fact, how can anyone “force” anything on anyone by mere words?) A question was asked, and I answered. I have not, nor will I ever, hunt someone down and put a gun to their head and/or threaten their lives to force someone to believe like I do. But the first amendment gives me the right to voice my opinion to openly discuss my beliefs, just as it does for you. The difference is that you tell me your opinion, I respect it. I tell you my opinion, you get angry and accuse me of “forcing” it on people, just because I say something that God Himself says in His Word. And as far as that “scientific proof”, if you do a search you will find many reports of people being delivered from homosexuality. But if you did, I expect you will accuse me of forcing you do that, like I can control what you do.

          • Tex Mandel

            Any sin, if left unconfessed, will lead someone to the lake of fire. All I have been doing is trying to explain why that one sin, homosexuality, is such a big issue. Yet, so many are taking it out of context, and reading into it things that wasn’t even stated. They continually skip over the words “only” and “sexual” words in my explanation. I had to go back and re-read what I typed because I was beginning to think maybe I didn’t put those words in there, but I see that I did. I just cannot understand how someone cannot see it. Taking those words out changes the whole meaning of what I was stating.

          • Karen Berman

            It is. But you see that verse speaks of people who live in sin.They deny they are sinning (like gays for example) and do not repent of their sin – meaning acknowledge before God that they accept their actions as bad, ask for forgiveness and then stop living in their sin.

          • John Vogel

            Well, I might be wrong here, but isn’t it the actual act of homosexual behaviour that is the sin, not simply “being gay”. I mean, therein lies the problem perhaps? We like to say “gays” are an abomination to God. What about those who are married 2 or 3 times, are they committing adultery on a daily basis? Are they not also guilty of sinnning on a daily basis and denying it? Or heterosexuals who engage in permarital sex on a daily basis? Is God okay with this behavior? Should we forgive them, because it’s just human weakness… but the homosexuals are a special sinner who we should judge and condemn, as good Christians? I’m just thinking that Jesus kind of taught us that we are all pretty much worthless sinners in the eyes of God, without His blood to wash us and clean us… but maybe I’m wrong? Maybe Gays are abominable, and the rest of us, though we commit sins on a daily basis, we are okay, because we “repent”… i just don’t know….

          • Judy Jacks

            Proverbs 6:16-18: 16There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, 18A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil,… So, if I use your logic, if they issued a marriage license to anyone who has told a lie, that was ok even though a lying tongue is an abomination to God? One more thought here, if you purchase an item from a company that is owned by a homosexual, and that homosexual decides to get married, and have a lavish wedding, are you not indirectly funding and paying in part and therefore participating in that wedding?

          • Tex Mandel

            I didn’t state that homosexuality was the “only” abomination sin there is, I stated that homosexuality is the only “sexual” sin listed as an abomination. The only “sexual” sin.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            To me rape, incest and pedophilia are the only sexual sins.

          • Mixxmaster Shawn

            But the Bible condones that in several instances. For example,
            Deuteronomy 22:28-29 “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.”

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So rape isn’t actually a sexual sin as long as the man who raped the woman, as in the woman didn’t gave her consent, marries her? But homosexuals who having sex, both consenting to the act, is a sin?

          • Mixxmaster Shawn

            According the Bible, yes. Absurd, isn’t it?

          • Karen Berman

            Yes, God puts gay sex in the same category sex with animals and other sexual sins. But never once does He consider it an option for Holy Matrimony.

          • Bastet’sMom

            Yes, and of course, according to the Bible, all humans are the result of incest. That old Adam and Eve, you know. A lot of inbreeding going on after that.

          • Karen Berman

            There was no such thing as incest at that time. God had not imparted that during such time.

          • DNelson

            “There was no such thing as incest at that time. God had not imparted that during such time.”

            Incest is incest. If it occurs it occurs. To suggest that two closely related individuals have sexual relations was not incest until God imparted that, is simply without reason.

          • Karen Berman

            Not true. “Apart from the law there is no sin” Until God said “no” there was no such thing. Look it up

          • DNelson

            Very convenient, don’t you think?

          • Bastet’sMom

            Good to know you are privy to God’s innermost intentions at the dawn of time. If you look at any painting of Adam and Eve, however, they have navels. 🙂

          • DNelson

            “I stated that homosexuality is the only “sexual” sin listed as an abomination. ”

            Homosexuality is not listed as an “abomination”. Sexual relations between two people of the same gender is listed as an abomination. The sexuality of the individuals is irrelevant regarding the sin.

          • Karen Berman

            True, sin has far reaching hands but it’s the difference between knowing doctrine and making up stuff, such as you and others are doing.

          • Dave_L

            “Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, make offerings to Baal, and go after other gods that you have not known, and then come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, ‘We are delivered!’—only to go on doing all these abominations?” (Jeremiah 7:9–10, ESV)

          • Jim H

            So is it as bad as eating shellfish, which is also an abomination against God?

          • Mixxmaster Shawn

            No, Jim. They scrapped all the Old Testament. I think the writers realized there was too much crazy stuff in there to follow…shellfish, mixed fabrics, working on Saturday, etc. So they wrote the New Testament, which is a lot easier to follow. Although, some Christians do still quote the Old Testament when making their point. It can be a little confusing.

          • Bastet’sMom

            Yes, they certainly have to jump through hoops and bite their own tails when they choose which “sin” to moralize and which ones they can ignore. The New Testament specifically forbids women to pray aloud or sing in church, for instance.

          • Karen Berman

            Not quite, but I agree that women pastors are not within the teachings of the Bible.

          • Karen Berman

            Not if you understand it. If the OT could cast a shadow, that shadow would look like Jesus. The OT was preparing the way for the NT. It NT was not written after the OT, it was written at the same down. It only made its way to paper bit by bit

          • Karen Berman

            under the doctrine of law, and only for the Jews. Not under the NT and the doctrine of grace

          • Jim H

            Tex was talking about what was and wasn’t an abomination. To my knowledge the term abomination is only used in the OT. He said that adultery, fornication, and other sexual sins are not abominations and implied abominations were somehow worse than those sins. The OT calls eating shellfish an abomination. By his implied reasoning that makes it worse than adultery fornication, etc.
            I was merely pointing that out. I guess you didn’t get that or just felt the need to try to show off with some rather obvious theology/exegesis.

          • Dean Dixon

            So if it’s not an abomination then you can ignore it then? How convenient. Gotta love a religion that can justify just about anything you don’t want to be burdened with LOL

          • Tex Mandel

            Did anyone state that? No. Stop trying to make something more out of it when it’s not even there. All I myself was doing was wanting to explain why the homosexual sin is such a big issue. It goes against God’s plan for marriage and reproduction, not to mention it goes against the very nature of humanity. Don’t believe me? Look at the majority of the homosexual community. Ladies — one of them dresses like a man, has her hair cut short like a man, and acts like a man. Men — One of them acts more like a woman than the other does. Before you jump to conclusions again, I didn’t state that all of them are like that, I stated most of them. This shows that even deep down they know how we are designed, and that those actions goes against the very nature of the way we are designed.

          • Dean Dixon

            Were you born with a flannel shirt? Were you born with dress? None of that has to do with nature that’s just part of the culture we’re born into. You state that MOST of them are like that? Have you seen MOST of them. You’ve only seen the ones that are obvious to YOU. You are one of those narrow minded people that need to pigeonhole people into black and white stereotypes. I have many, many friend and aquaintences, both men and women that are not trying to act like either women or men. Deep down I know how I WAS DESIGNED.

          • EliyahuBenYisroel

            Homosexuality wasn’t even serious enough to make it into the Ten Commandments, unlike stealing, adultery, murder, taking God’s name in vain, etc.. Did those clerks have any problems with issuing a marriage license to someone who had committed theft, committed adultery, sworn, or broken any other commandments? The reason I see this as hypocritical is because the only sin they find offensive is the one that they aren’t personally tempted to commit. It’s easy for them to overlook the others since they might be tempted to commit them as well, and we are always ready to give ourselves a break. The fact that one’s own beliefs would prohibit a marriage aren’t a good reason to oppose someone outside their church from marrying. Let’s assume that they don’t believe that a divorced person should marry, or a couple who’s been living together, or a believer marrying a non-believer. Within a religion, those are perfectly valid reasons to oppose a marriage. In a civil context, though, they’re no one’s business but that of the couple.

          • Tex Mandel

            You are correct, and I’ll tell you, if I was in charge of issuing marriage license, and/or marrying a couple, it would be done strictly by God’s Word so that they will be blessed. But that is me. I’m in no way condemning, or condoning anyone’s actions in this matter, all I intended to do was to explain why homosexual sin is such a major topic. I only wish all the other sins would be a major topic also. If we would start living the way God tells us to live, we would be in so much better shape than we are these days. God did not give us those instructions and laws to deprive us, He gave them to us so we can live healthy and productive lives, prospering in all we do. The problem is that sin came into our lives, and it is hard to live by the way He intended us to live. This is why He sent His Son, Jesus, to die for us, to carry our sins for us, so we can be saved from His Wrath. He then rose Jesus from the grave so that we also can be risen from the grave to be with Him forever. But we have to accept it, He won’t force it on anyone.

          • Karen Berman

            The thing is I don’t have to get a State license to be seen as married in the eyes of God. So long as that covenant was made by religious standards – it doesn’t even have to be done in a church building. The truth is, had gov’t stayed out of the marriage issue to begin with, we wouldn’t be in this situation today.

          • Karen Berman

            Wow, talk about twisting things for your benefit. No where does it say those thieves and murders can’t marry. It does however say that two man nor two woman can be joined as one

          • Bastet’sMom

            Then why isn’t it in the Ten Commandments? Can’t be that important. Jesus didn’t say anything about it, so it wasn’t that important to him, either. Guess you are putting yourself above Jesus.

        • bowie1

          Adultery is also a sin but the office issuing marriage licenses doesn’t get into divorce if that follows. Besides, adultery is biblical grounds for divorce for the innocent party.

          • Judy Jacks

            Unless these workers were researching and interrogating each individual as to whether or not they were divorced, on what grounds did they divorce and the person they were going to marry, than if they issued a wedding license to them with out discerning that fact they participated in their adultery by issuing the marriage certificate.

          • Karen Berman

            gay marriage would never be able to be justified biblically speaking so what does it matter

          • DNelson

            “Unless these workers were researching and interrogating each individual as to whether or not they were divorced, on what grounds did they divorce and the person they were going to marry, than if they issued a wedding license to them with out discerning that fact they participated in their adultery by issuing the marriage certificate.”

            All they have to do is ask. I mean, if not violating their religious beliefs is so very, very important to them, surely it’s worth asking a few questions, right?

          • Judy Jacks

            I Cor 5:9-11: I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler– not even to eat with such a one.…

          • Dean Dixon

            You morons
            all Cherry Pick. I don’t really care what the bible says. It’s only value is possibly as ass wipe. In this country the Constitution Trumps the “word of god” So all your scripture quoting is all for naught.

          • JMF

            Be careful when you call someone a fool or a moron as you don’t want to appear as one yourself.
            They are only doing what the Bible says to do – preach The Word. When they quote verses it means they don’t want to speak as the flawed humans we all are. Our tongues are especially flawed.
            As you so clearly understand and know the constitution, you may also recall that freedom of speech is a constitutional right even if you don’t agree with what is spoken. The constitution will be ever changing or at least people will always try to change it or amend it. The Word of God has never changed and will never, ever change (Hebrews 13:8, John 1:1).
            Whether you agree with it or not is beside the point. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. When you put 2 and 2 together you will always get 4. It doesn’t matter if you believe 2 + 2 = 5.

            2Timothy 4:2-4
            Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

          • Dean Dixon

            I didn’t say they could quote scripture. What I said is it’s irrelevant. The Bible is ass wipe, a collection of fairytales and contradictions, for the most part written by bronze age men. In the beginning Man Created God, that’s my truth. If the Bible is your truth so be it. Muslims, Hindus and Buddhist have their own truth as well. You can preach the word in your church, in your home, on a street corner but not anywhere it infringes on the rights of others, or in a place that is publicly owned. You can quote all the Scripture you want it’s irrelevant to the laws that govern this country. Further it’s irrelevant to me. I rejected those so called “Truths” years ago. Remember that your right to free speech has to respect the rights of other. If not there will be a price to pay. I’ve said all I will say, heard all I want to hear. I don’t want to listen to any more scripture quoting from some delusional Christian Psychotic.

          • Karen Berman

            To you it may be. But to them, they are being obedient to God’s word. And if you have the right to marry your brother and not be condemned then they have the right to adhere to their religious beliefs and not be condemned, right?

          • fallan

            Wouldnt expect nothing else from an atheist but remember homosexuality will be taught as natural sexual behaviour to young school children and society will be changed forever…Immorality will as history shows destroy a society from within and America and the West legislating such immoral practises is already seeing that happen.The rise if Islamic fundamentalism is the outcome of the Wests degenerate behaviour and Isis murders homosexuals without batting an eyelid.Yet people like you condemn the PEACEFUL stand by Christians and their complete faith in Gods word.America and the West will pay a huge price for rejecting God and His son Jesus Christ in fact a price is being paid already.

          • Dean Dixon

            You are nuts, the rise of Christian Fundamentalism is a far greater danger to this country. Your Jesus is dead, rotted, dust and no longer exists. In the beginning Man Created God to explain away all that he didn’t understand and morons like you continue to do so. The rise of Islamic Fundamentalism has a cause and the USA, Great Britain had a strong hand in the rise of it through there support of repressive regimes and the Creation of the Modern State of Israel and their policies towards the middle east. Our lust for oil influenced our policies and we ignored the plight of the common man in the middle east and they finally have had enough. We supported the Shah of Iran, who murdered like Stalin and accumulated wealth on the backs of his people. We supported Saddam Hussein when it seemed like a good plan to get more oil. All the rise in Islamic Fundamentalism was created by our “FORMERLY GOOD CHRISTIAN NATION” I guess before god got pissed about homosexuality. Put down the bible and read something that might explain reality to you. The bible is fantasy and about the only use I can see for it is being recycled to make ass wipe.

          • fallan

            Like I said spoken from the book of atheism…you Im afraid like your naïve cousins the left wingers of the 1930s saying Hitler was a good guy and Britain was a war monger resulted in 100 million dead….Yes for YOU Jesus is dead but for millions He is alive and one day you will face that truth so make sure you are 100% sure… because if things don’t change in your life a Godless and horrific eternity awaits you. Many atheists HAVE accepted Christ but its a freedom of choice that for now you’ve rejected SO BE IT.

          • fallan

            “You are nuts, the rise of Christian Fundamentalism is a far greater danger to this country”….. I doubt any SANE person would agree with this ridiculous statement. Isis and other Islamic terrorists are slaughtering thousands including women and children even crucifying them and you come out with this laughable but dangerous statement.. even Bill Maher who isn’t a lover of Christianity said there is no comparison.Ask yourself honestly but you wont as you have a blind hatred for Christians.. if you were dropped by helicopter into a large Christian meeting or an Isis meeting which one if you had a choice would you go for…if you say Isis then I fear for your deluded mind

          • Dean Dixon

            Any group that interferes with the rights of others is a menace. You and your cult are a danger to the American Way Of Life. Your cult is just as insidious as Isis your methods are just different, but just a dangerous. Fundamentalism is a danger to this country and needs to be stopped from interfering in other peoples lives. Live your life as you see fit. Stay the fuck out of mine. I know that’s a tall order for any Christian Cultist. Now go fuck yourself, your god and jesus bullshit, you’ve wasted as much of my time as I will give someone with half a brain. People like you are are a waste of time, space and air.

          • fallan

            any normal fair minded person looking at our postings would have to admit yours is why America is going down the toilet.. your trash talk and hatred towards Christians is evil…The Nazis said very similar things towards the Jews being dangerous and a menace evil isn’t stuck in any period whether its the 1930s or 2015..noice you didn’t answer my question guess you couldn’t mate..remember Islam wont give you the pleasure of abusing their prophet and religion the way you have towards Jesus and Christianity because you know Christianity is a peaceful religion and wouldn’t fear an attack something you couldn’t take for granted by attacking Islam.. Judgement is coming stay as you are and face the horror of a godless eternity…REPENT this is my final post

          • Karen Berman

            The Constitution does not address marriage of two people. Gay marriage is an oxymoron as two of the same sex cannot be married.

          • DNelson

            “Gay marriage is an oxymoron as two of the same sex cannot be married.”

            Regarding legally married, you are obviously mistaken.

          • Karen Berman

            you have a contract with the state. Not Holy Matrimony.

          • DNelson

            Yes, dear, that is what was being sought. It is a legal marriage.

            Religious marriage is the province of each religion and they are free to define it as they like.

          • DNelson

            The office issues marriage licenses. According to the Bible, if a man marries a woman who was divorced for reasons other than adultery, that man is committing adultery. Do you think the clerks checked first?

          • The Lone Ranger

            There seems to be some confusion concerning the difference between adulterers and jughomosexuals. Sin is sin however you can be forgiven of both; but you have leave that sin after forgiveness. John 8:4 they say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her , woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemn thee ? She said, No man, LORD. (He has to be our personal LORD) And Jesus said unto her,Neither do I code thee: GO, AND SIN NO MORE. (We have to give our sin up repent) John 4 tells us the truth. Verse 16 Jesus saith unto her,Go call thy husband, and come hither. 17 the woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 for thou hast five husbands; AND HE WHOM THOU NOW HAST IS NOT THY HUSBAND: in that saidst thou TRULY.( There’s where the sin is. Abiding in that sin; not your past sins Christ is about grace he forgives sin but you have to be abiding in him for that grace. You can no longer abide in sin. How can you be married to a man in a sexual relationship and sin no more if homosexuality is a sin that’s’ a problem that’s why they legalized it. So it would not be sin but man cannot redefine marriage or sin)

          • DNelson

            “There seems to be some confusion concerning the difference between adulterers and jughomosexuals.”

            Not on my part.

            Luke 16:18: “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”

            Issuing a marriage license to a couple where either has been divorced would be participating in sin.

            “man cannot redefine marriage”

            Man is free to redefine civil marriage, as civil marriage is a creation of man.

          • Karen Berman

            You cannot use one verse in the bible to say that all divorce and remarriage is wrong. You have to talk the whole doctrine and use discernment. Such as:

            Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. Matthew 19:8 God allowed Moses to issue divorces for the protection of women.

            So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man Romans 7:3 — remarriage is allowed in death

            1 Corinthians 7:1-16 allows for remarriage in the case of a believer and a non believer being married.

            The fact is, gay marriage isn’t acceptable in the Bible in any way,shape or form and to marry two of the same sex is a distortion of God’s word and purpose. THAT’s why it is different than divorce and remarriage issues.

          • DNelson

            “You cannot use one verse in the bible to say that all divorce and remarriage is wrong.”

            I didn’t say that all divorce and remarriage is wrong.

            The fact is, gay marriage is not mentioned at all in the Bible.

          • Karen Berman

            That’s because it was not ordained by God. Not allowed. But the Bible speaks constantly and clearly that homosexuality is an offense to God. So why would there be a instance of gay marriage in the Bible. God gave the parameters – one man/one woman.

          • DNelson

            “But the Bible speaks constantly and clearly that homosexuality is an offense to God”

            The bible speaks clearly that sexual relations between two people of the same gender is a sin. It makes no mention of civil marriage between two people of the same gender.

          • upload

            That may be the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. And I mean ever.

          • DNelson

            So the Bible DOESN’T speak clearly about sexual relations between two people of the same gender and the Bible DOES mention civil (non-religious) marriage between two people of the same gender?

            That will be news to a lot of people who profess to be Christians.

          • Robert H

            You mean the Torah…which is the old Testament. Remember J.C. gave 3 commandments…lest we forget?

          • DNelson

            So the 10 Commandments and the OT are NOT part of the Christian belief system?

          • John Holt

            Sooooooooo Karen – So are these county clerks throughout the US having their religous rights violated when they hand out divorce defcrees? What about issuing people their second and third marriage licenses? Oh and the best part. Wait for it! Wait for it! Wait for it! What about issuing business licenses to people that want to open tattoo parlors. What about tobacco licenses? I mean doesn’t the Bible say not to mark up your body or do harmful things to it?

          • India forever

            Soooooo John the clerks do not issue divorce papers the courts who are judges do. They are sent to the lawyers to give to the clients.
            God says let him without sin throw the first stone.
            Soooooo John you must be without sin. We all answer upon death
            for EVERY SIN that God considers a sin. Harmful things like anal sex and causing HIV to come into this world? Sounds snarky right because it does not fit your view. Stop showing your ignorance talking about business licenses. Repent weirdo before its your turn to stand for what you did in this life

          • Sharon Smith

            That’s because it shouldn’t even get that far. It is stated that it is ‘an abomination to God’!!!..so why would He even go as far as ‘marriage’?? He calls it ‘shameful and unnatural’ and is against it, not only in the Old Testament, but also the New and right up until Revelations..ie..the end Times!! He says that He will ‘leave them to their own depraved mind…’..leave them!! Yes, there is forgiveness..just as Jesus forgave Mary Magdalene BUT, the very important thing He said to her was ‘GO AND SIN NO MORE’!! I think we all know where the word ‘sodomy’ come from…and look what He did to Sodom and gommorah..do you think that was because He was pleased with their behaviour or disgusted??!! Just because it has been made legal doesn’t make it right!! It is written that the anti-Christ spirit will control the world in the end Times so the fact that this has been legalised and that polygamy, incest, paedophilia and bestiality are now stirring for their ‘rights’ should be PROOF that the anti-Christ is deceiving the world..just as Jesus said it would!! Now in america they have the Satanists giving out satanic colouring books for the kids as part of ‘their rights’. If you notice that most of these people mock Christianity and the persecution of Christians is on the rise…just as it is written AGAIN, surely that rings a bell in your head. Although, it is written that the ‘great falling away from God’ will happen first..and we all can see that. Most people just want to do what the flesh wants and, taking God out of the equation, seems to give them the allusion that they don’t have to answer for it. Well, they ARE WRONG..and there is the deceit!

          • DNelson

            “Just because it has been made legal doesn’t make it right!! ”

            You are certainly free to believe that allowing two citizens of the same gender to access a right that is offered by the State – the State that is sworn to protect the rights of EVERY citizen and to apply those rights equally under law, without regard to how religion may view an activity – is wrong.

            The US is not a Christian Theocracy. The Bible is not a sole determiner in what is legally allowed. You are certainly free to believe that same-gender civil marriage shouldn’t be allowed based upon your religious beliefs, but your religious beliefs are not a sole basis for our laws.

            “and the persecution of Christians is on the rise.”

            “Persecution: Persecution is the systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another individual or group.”

            How are Christians, as a group, being “persecuted”?

          • Sharon Smith

            ‘The Bible is not a sole determiner in what is legally allowed.’ It always has been up until now. It is also written that ‘lawlessness will abound’ and your comment has just confirmed the mind frame that will cause this. It is legal in other countries for an adult to marry children..so you are ok with that?? No?? Why?? Equal rights and all?? I am against that but it is legal over there. Does that make it right?? “and the persecution of Christians is on the rise.”. Christians are on the top of the terrorists list, they are being beheaded because they will not renounce Jesus, children are being crucified because (God love them) they are not renouncing Jesus, some schools in America have banned even a Bible in the schools, kids have been banned from having their Christian groups…oh..but muslims are getting a lot of attention..information being fed to the kids in the name of ‘understanding’. Just google ‘Christians beheaded or children crucified’ and ‘Christianity banned from schools’ and Christians on terrorist lists’….CATCH UP!! Don’t need your politically correct dictionary ‘definitions’ either!! Won’t be wasting my Time either. Bye!!!

          • DNelson

            “It always has been up until now.”

            What country do you live in? That was certainly not the case in the United States. The protections provided by our Constitution directly conflict with 7 or the 10 Biblical commandments.

            There are certainly places in the world where Christians are being persecuted. I fully denounce such actions. My comments were directed to the US.

            “Don’t need your politically correct dictionary ‘definitions’ either!!”

            The definition is the definition.

          • India forever

            Your right queers will always be queer no matter what law you get changed. God has chosen the marriage couple and God does not change nor does he follow what the LBGT queer community have to say. In the end we all die and stand before him.

          • DNelson

            You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

          • Wayne McIntosh

            Show me the law that states marriage is a right! You can’t because it doesn’t exist!

          • DNelson

            If a State chooses to offer a license then it becomes a right of citizens to access that license, based upon the Constitution. If the State wishes to restrict access to that right, the restrictions it puts into place must be based on rational and compelling reasons. If they are not, they are unconstitutional, as was the case with restrictions on accessing marriage based upon the gender of the couple seeking the license.

            The SCOTUS ruled in Loving v Virginia that access to marriage is indeed a fundamental right.

          • India forever

            SCOTUS and you are not God

          • DNelson

            Agreed. Nor are you, India.

          • India forever

            IF you were honest the STATES did not approve gay marriage.
            Five activist judges did one who is a lesbian a few Jews who DO NOT honor Jesus at all.
            In the state I live 18 million out of 19 million had a STATE LAW SAYING MARRIAGE was between one man and one woman.
            Do you remember Ca. prop 8 and the other time the STATE voted marriage as a man and women and it was over turned by activist judges.
            LBGT community UNDER 10% yet five judges forces the rest of the people to make them legitimate. When we had Godly men and women in our country’s Congress Religious beliefs and the Bible were considered something. When we had pray in schools their was no need for metal detectors. Now people like you and the LGBT community have turned this country into a hell hole of immoral queers running around grabbing their penis’s in public.
            I am a man, I am a women all the while dressing the opposite of your biological parts you have.
            You and others that approve of the LBGT community have made this country an immoral place to live. Telling children in school that queers are normal. Look up queer and normal they are NOT the same.

          • DNelson

            “In the state I live 18 million out of 19 million”

            What state is that?

            “I am a man, I am a women”

            So you are transgender?

            “You and others that approve of the LBGT community have made this country an immoral place to live.”

            The country doesn’t have morals. People have morals.

          • upload

            Matthew 19:4-6. The positive statement here is the same thing as a negative statement. Saying the sky is blue is also saying it’s not green.

          • DNelson

            “The positive statement here is the same thing as a negative statement.”

            You are certainly free to interpret it that way, but that doesn’t change that civil marriage between two citizens of the same gender is not discussed in the Bible.

            “Saying the sky is blue is also saying it’s not green.”

            The sky isn’t always blue.

          • Wayne McIntosh

            Nope it’s not mentioned but Homosexuality is CONDEMNED by God so what moron would think God would support marriage between two men when God has already condemned Homosexuality? Try to apply a bit of commonsense!

          • DNelson

            Unless you are God, Wayne, you cannot say with certainty. Just because you have chosen to believe that God’s views are expressed in the Bible, does not mean that they are.

          • fallan

            Incest isnt either would you advocate that because it isnt mentioned they both come under immoral sexual behaviour…but there is enough scripture to see marriage is between a man and a woman.Of all sins homosexuality is the one sin being accepted by governments enshrined in law and is now being accepted by so called Christian leaders like Rick Warren…St Paul is hated by not just homosexuals but liberal Christians for his decleration about immoral sexual behaviour which includes homosexuality.Paul who was chosen by Jesus Himself under attack for his stand against sin.When judgement by God comes to those liberal Christians they will be judged for this and will be condemned for allowing sin to bring Christ down have no doubt about that.

          • DNelson

            “Incest isnt either would you advocate ”

            I don’t determine my advocacy for, or against, something based upon the Bible. No, I would not advocate for the legality of incest.

            “Of all sins homosexuality is the one sin being accepted by governments enshrined in law”

            The protections provided by our Constitution directly conflict with 7 of the 10 Biblical Commandments. You are incorrect to suggest that homosexuality is the “one” sin being accepted by government and enshrined by law.

          • fallan

            I should have included also by liberal Christians….is committing adultery…stealing…murder..coveting..bearing false witness…plus lying..swindling drunkeness etc etc which of those above is acceptable even by liberal Christians and ENSHRINED in law…NONE eccept the sin of immorality.Homosexuality is the single one that is accepted as ok and normal if you cant see that then you are biased and have a closed mind.It will bring down society and history shows that if immorality takes hold it will destroy it from within.

          • nevergiveup

            I have had enough of your nonsense justifying gay marriage and gay sex up and down this website. At best you are deceived, at worst you are a liar. There are many verses in the Bible that define marriage as between a man and a woman but let me spell it out for you. Firstly – two people of the same sex cannot reproduce -never have been able to – never will be able to. That should be a massive clue that God did not create two people of the same sex. Secondly – a penis is quite obviously not meant to go into a persons rectum – that should be obvious and the sexual organs of woman are quite obviously designed for a male penis. Thirdly God created a male and a female – if he wanted two people of the same sex together then he would not have created males and females. If you are born with a penis then you are a man who is meant to be with a woman – end of story. We dont get to decide our sexuality – God does. Our bodies do not belong to ourselves – they belong to Him. So stop lying and deceiving people.

          • DNelson

            “So stop lying and deceiving people.”

            What lies and deceptions are you referring to?

          • John Holt

            Well I’m sorry douchebag that I have never been attracted to a woman. Just be glad that leaves more women for you. Not saying you, so sick of the other people who have no problem watching two girls in a porn together but freak out at the thought over two guys. Tell ya what bro, you stick to what you like and I will do the same.

          • nevergiveup

            John – I agree with you that there is hypocrisy out there – plenty of it. I am certainly not perfect either but I have been with one woman for the last 20 years and by God’s grace it will stay that way. I do not hate gays or adulterers or prostitutes. What I hate is when people try to twist things and call what is right wrong and vice versa. Adultery angers me more than most things because it destroys families. May God bless and guide you (I mean that sincerely). I can never say I am somehow morally better than anyone else – everyone of is capable of the worst things – I have made BIG screw ups in my life. But by the love and guidance of Christ I was delivered from the porn, the drugs, the sleeping around and I turn to Him almost daily to keep me on the right path because this world seems to be designed to destroy us one way or another. All the best for the future.

          • Robert H

            Sorry Never Give Up. The Anus is an errogenous zone as sensitive as the vagina. And don’t ya think we have enough damn people on this planet?

          • nevergiveup

            Hi Robert. It is sensitive but I would say the reason it was designed that way is so we can control when and where we take a dump. If it was not so sensitive we would be dropping crap all over the place. Sorry, don’t know how else to articulate that. I do agree about the population but if we spent less money on war, porn, drugs and all the other BS then population would not be an issue.

          • India forever

            You have been given many verses as to gay does not = marriage.
            Sodom and Gomorrah reveals what God thinks of Homosexuality and Gay (NOT) lifestyle in general . ABOMINATION IS AN EASY WORD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND.
            GOD GAVE ADAM AND EVE AS THE FIRST MARRIAGE NOT 2 MEN OR 2 WOMEN.

          • Steve Eage

            Yet Christ healed the pais (body servant, usually sex slave) of the centurion. The pais was a male.

          • Steve Eage

            Discernment is nothing more than your opinion on the meaning/morality of something. There is no group consensus. Your discernment is only important to you:

          • India forever

            Good work Karen I think dnelson might being trying to justify something different than how God set the rules on marriage.
            He is called a hunter and a pecker looking to interpret something to value his views or actions.

          • Wayne McIntosh

            Your part does not matter, Gods part is all that matters!

          • Wayne McIntosh

            Man did not define marriage God did and man cannot redefine marriage! Man cannot define civil marriage as there is only one kind of marriage God recognizes and that is one in which a man marries a woman! Man can against Gods will but there will be consequences!

          • DNelson

            Man did indeed define civil marriage and man can indeed redefine it. You are free to believe that God will not recognize such marriages, but that is irrelevant to their legality.

          • Jody N

            God never destroyed societies for divorce but he certainly did because of homosexuality. It’s one of those abominations that when it’s accepted by a society…God draws the line. It deviates from His original set up…and anything that deviates from that..is deviant behavior. I promise you that this little party that the gay community is celebrating is short term.

            As for divorce…maybe people that do get remarried…shouldn’t. Maybe they ARE in fact offending God and He will deal with it. That doesn’t homosexuality any more right.

            Jesus spoke many times about sexual immorality and he was referring to the list in Leviticus (he would have been taught this during his upbringing). As far as I know…that list was never recanted from the Old testament to the new.

          • DNelson

            “God never destroyed societies for divorce but he certainly did because of homosexuality. ”

            God never destroyed a society because of homosexuality.

            “It’s one of those abominations that when it’s accepted by a society…God draws the line.”

            Why there? Why not for violation of the 10 commandments?

            “As for divorce…maybe people that do get remarried…shouldn’t.”

            So do you support laws that would make that illegal?

            “Jesus spoke many times about sexual immorality”

            Jesus never mentioned homosexuality except to say that homosexuals are born as homosexuals.

          • India forever

            First there is no Law that states a state agency checks for divorce papers under civil marriages? Are you brain dead? If you have ever been married and apply to a marriage license you are asked if you were married before.
            IF so you MUST SHOW that your spouse is deceased (legal death certificate) or a divorce decree. Now of course we know that some will not tell the truth and SAY never married. Now that counts
            as a LIAR which if caught you can go to jail for bigamy or to the lake of fire in God’s eyes WHEN YOU DIE.
            Yes, Man is free to redefine anything however in this life or the next their will be penalty for the redefine.

          • DNelson

            “First there is no Law that states a state agency checks for divorce papers under civil marriages”

            True. But that does not stop her from asking. Or are you suggesting that the not go outside the boundaries of the law regarding previous divorce, but is free to not adhere to the law regarding issuing a marriage license to two citizens of the same gender?

          • GibbyD

            Marriage was created by God . Civil Union is what what created by man . A “marriage” and a “union” between same gender people , are NOT the same . Two plugs and or two sockets are just two plugs and or two sockets . It is only when you unite a plug with a socket that you have the reality and proof of genuine demonstrative power.

          • Mixxmaster Shawn

            Did the clerks ever check to see if the couple was already living together in sin before issuing a license? Did they ask if the bride was a virgin? Of course not. They only get worked up about the homosexuals. They just can’t stop thinking about them.

          • Karen Berman

            To what end? If they were living together before and they go married they would not longer be sinning, right? And where does it say the bride must be a virgin? Are you sure you are even in the right religion?

          • Karen Berman

            Why would they need to? As mentioned before, some divorces and remarriages are fine. Gay marriage is zero tolerance in the Bible.

          • DNelson

            Jesus was very clear that if a man marries a woman who was divorced for reasons other than adultery, that man is committing adultery.

            Gay marriage is not mentioned anywhere in the bible.

          • Karen Berman

            That’s because gays are not allowed to marry in the bible. And you are wrong. Remarriage is allowed in cases of death, abuse, or if a non believer leaves a believer.

          • India forever

            No, you forgot to state that in Gen. God describes marriage as a man and woman. Adam and Eve were God’s design for marriage.
            NOT Adam and Steve. you can not change biology unless you undergo surgery. Even Bruce Jenner was not brave enough to remove his pensis.

          • DNelson

            The Biblical view of marriage is not relevant to our civil laws.

        • Matthew Holmes

          you make a decent point here. Ill have to dig into the book and keep doing some prayer and reflecting about this.

        • Karen Berman

          The OT laws only applied to the Jews and never to the gentiles. That said, the OT was under the dispensation of law and everyone is now under the dispensation of grace thanks to the work of Jesus on the cross. I would recommend you look up those two doctrines.

        • PastProdigal

          It’s the knowing that makes it a sin. To know you’re doing the wrong thing and do it anyway is the meaning of sin.
          Still a moot question.

        • India forever

          Sounds like it is too close to home for you to be objective. Selling cloth does not REPRESENT SIN. HOMOSEXUALITY DOES.1Corth 6:9The unrighteous shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God. It goes on to explain who is included as unrighteous the sexually immoral (anyone not just adultery’s) it names men who practice homosexuality, plus thief’s etc. i.e. SIN it does not say Lida selling of cloth was a sin. It is hard for unbelievers to realize
          that what the Bible tells us is an abomination must be looked upon
          as just do your job. 1Tim 1:10 also mentions the sexually immoral men who practice homosexuality.
          I find it hard to believe that two men think they are a man and women. Biology tells us different. A rubber penis does not make a women a man and a man who uses his poop shoot for sex is indeed abnormal .

    • 2197_uxo_1

      Show me in the Bible where it says you cannot remarry after a divorce. Not there is it.

      • Judy Jacks

        I Corinthians 7:10-11: But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband 11(but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. Matthew 5:31-32: “It was said, ‘WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE’; 32but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. I do want to emphasize that God is a loving and merciful God. He knows we are not perfect and will forgive a repentant humble person; Romans 7:21-25: So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

      • Dean Dixon

        Well you already fucked up by divorcing.

    • Gabriel A. King

      Did Jesus come to destroy God and his commandments? Think not….

    • Karen Berman

      Divorce is not a sin. And remarriage may not be either depending on the reason for the divorce. However, gay marriage has no exceptions for divine approval.

    • Wayne McIntosh

      You dunno jack about the bible clearly! There are conditions with which divorce is okay were as there is NONE for homosexuality NONE! Jesus did not get involved in politics but he did get involved with stomping out sin! Homosexuality is an abomination to God and YES he has a problem with it over divorce! Sin is sin, we know that but just STOP using divorce as a defense for homosexuality! Jesus laid out the conditions for divorce should you feel you cannot remain in the marriage! The only condition for homosexuality is to REPENT! You can divorce and remarry if you’re unequally yoked or your spouse is having sex with another! Unequally yoked would mean one is Christian and the other is not! Divorce is not a defense for homosexuality so just stop it!

    • Angel Triumphant

      LOL

    • PastProdigal

      It’s doubtful they ever had the need to ask the couple if they had been previously married.
      Moot question.

    • DallasOrf54

      No, He continued to preach His Fathers truth and will. Then He embraced and forgave all repentant hearts. The Old Testament however is filled with God pouring out judgement upon nations who turned away from Him. We must learn from history. The New Testament does not do away with the Old Testament but rather fulfills it.

    • Army Vet

      Jesus said, “But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; and they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

      Mark 10:6-9

      We ought to obey God rather than men.

      Acts 5:29

    • India forever

      Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s render unto God what is God’s.
      Roman 1:24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the DISHONORING of their bodies among themselves.R1:26 God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women EXCHANGED “NATURAL RELATIONS ” WHICH ARE CONTRARY TO NATURE. R1:24 and the men likewise gave up NATURAL RELATIONS with women and were CONSUMED WITH PASSIONS FOR ONE ANOTHER, men committing SHAMELESS ACTS WITH MEN,RECEIVING IN THEMSELVES THE DUE PENALTY FOR THEIR ERROR. Divorce was common through out the OT and St Paul speaks about divorce IN NT, NOT Jesus you are correct that Jesus did not get involved with Gov. rules,
      BECAUSE he gave us HIS RULES 10 commandments. Judy you are not astute in the bible.

    • Henry

      Jesus Christ says in Matthew 15:18-19, “But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.’ For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander”

      Thus, Sexual immorality encompass any type of sexual relation outside the marriage bed of one man and one woman.

    • GibbyD

      God did not destroy cities because of divorce and remarriage. He did destroy them because of the pride, fullness of bread , abundance of idleness and the not strengthening the hand of the poor which led to and included homosexuality. Jesus is The Same God of The Old Testament and THE SAME GOD that indwelt the Spirit Filled Apostles.

  • Evangelina Vigilantee

    I get so tired of people using one sin to justify another. It is wrong to marry two people of the same sex, period. As a Christian, you simply cannot do it. It is not an option. There is no maybe. There is no “oh, wow, that was really brave of you!” for refraining. There is simply “No, I cannot do that. And I can’t apologize for refusing either.” There is no compromise. It is the word of God: Romans 1; 26-27, 1 Cor. 6; 9-10, Leviticus 18 & 20. It is an abomination to God. There is no argument. There is no “but, Jesus never said…” Yes, it is in God’s word and Jesus validated the OT because that’s what it is. Paul spoke by the Holy Spirit, and all of Scripture is God’s Word. No way around it. If you cave, you incur the wrath of God upon your own head. I applaud those women for leaving. If they stayed, they would have to refuse to comply anyway. No one can force you to go against your religious convictions without your consent. That is how martyrs were made in the early church. We will resist and we will refuse. And, we are not sorry about that.

    • Heather Nordquist

      Dear Lord, they aren’t marrying them. They are doing their jobs. Pay Caeser’s things unto Caesar and God’s things unto God. Right?

  • FoJC_Forever

    Christians should just bypass the government concerning Marriage. A man and woman can simply create a shared property contract for legal purposes. Being registered with the state isn’t relevant with God. What God looks to is the heart and righteous actions of the man and woman coming together in Holy Matrimony before Him.

    God-less rule and rule through false religion is always unfair and results in the destruction of societies. Turmoil, anguish, and chaos increase. It was a mistake to make laws concerning those things which are the LORD’s alone. God created Marriage, not mankind.

    • DNelson

      “Christians should just bypass the government concerning Marriage.”

      That is certainly their right. There is no requirement that two people enter into civil marriage. Doubtful, though, that they would be willing to forego the over 1,000 benefits, rights, and protections that are afforded by civil marriage.

      “God created Marriage, not mankind.”

      Man created civil marriage.

  • Nidalap

    Good to see that some are still willing to stand for morality! Soon enough, they’ll be closing church doors over this…

    • IprefertobeAnonymous

      It’s interesting to think about. The faithful will still meet even if there is no building. Wonder who is going to pay the mortgage payments (if any) or the property taxes on those church buildings they close? Who is going to maintain them, manage the landscaping & buildings. clean up the grafiti, etc. Maybe the Liberal-zi’s have already thought about this but don’t really care about the blight that will surround them and the loss of tax revenues for the schools. Look at Detroit after all.

      • Nidalap

        Many times, evil and decay tend to go hand in cloven hoof…

    • Taussig

      more false hysteria please!

    • Dean Dixon

      I hope so. Religion is a blight on humanity. Morality an Religion are two different issues. Morality can exist without religion.

  • The Last Trump

    This is where actual Christians will begin to stand out from all the posers.
    At some point all of us are going to have to take a stand, no matter the cost.
    God bless them for having the courage to follow through on their convictions.
    Looking forward to seeing MANY MORE examples such as this! Historic times…

    • DNelson

      So I guess when they were issuing marriage certificates to people who had been divorced for reasons other than adultery, they were just “posers”.

      • Dennis

        DNelson your opinion means nothing. Stupid people have no reason to speak.

        • DNelson

          Oh, Dennis, it’s OK for you to speak. You have that right under our Constitution.

          • Dean Dixon

            His opinion is as valid as anyones. And he’s made a good point. The Bible and Jesus in particular speak out about divorce. You can’t “Cherry Pick” the parts of the Bible that fit your agenda while ignoring the rest. So he a good reason to call them “posers” because that’s what they’re doing. Perhaps these “Christians” just don’t bother to read the Bible.

        • Bendy Bentley

          Yet, you do.

    • Taussig

      Lets hope we see more and more of them quit. That way there will be jobs available for those who will actually DO their jobs

    • Ken Campbell

      I have to give them credit for standing by their principals. I think they will regret their decision but such is life. I suspect that there will be new people doing the jobs very soon.

      • Colorado Native

        Here’s what should happen: That the country hires three atheist lesbians to replace them. They would have to hire them if they were qualified. To do otherwise is just asking for trouble. 🙂

    • Dean Dixon

      Personally I don’t care if we see MANY MORE. They have every right to quit their jobs since they can’t do their job. Just as Gay couple have every right to marry, it’s the law and it Trumps “God’s Law” in this country. You need to quit concerning yourself with others when it comes to religious issues. It doesn’t effect your beliefs or your relationship with your god. Worry about getting your own ass to heaven. God teaches you that it isn’t your place to judge, and if you can’t judge you can’t condemn, God didn’t give you that job.

  • William Brians

    Why would somebody need a license?

    • BarkingDawg

      Because it’s a legal contract with specific benefits and responsibilities.

    • Skillet Chitlins

      License is the giving of permission, by some recognizable authority, to do something that would otherwise not be legal.

  • bob manning

    I see there are supporters for the 1.7% of the populace for this gay marriaqge crap..imagine; we allow the tiniest majority to upset a WHOLE nation so that they can rewrite law????..They can’t have children(unless of course they CHEAT..and they will of course)..they can notr propogate their race(see above) and they spread disease and vulgarity..you would have these minature minorities destroy the fabric of a nation; so that they can do this???..well; then lets all start killing babies in the womb as a form of birth control..wait; you sick minority types already do thaT!!
    I guess there is nothing too low; too sick or pervereted; that you want 98.3% of the country to follow your lead??
    Never gonna happen..NEVER!!!

    • Lark62

      The fabric of our nation is just fine.

      And we don’t count heads before deciding whether to enforce the Constitution. Equal protection under the law means equal.

      Most Americans, 60% and counting, support marriage equality. We know that discrimination harms society and is wrong even when we are not directly impacted.

    • BarkingDawg

      Waa waaa waaaa.

      Stop being such a cry baby.

  • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

    They did the right thing in leaving. I hope God will Bless them with better jobs quickly. I would have done the same as they did.

    • Earlybird54

      Ladyfreebird this momatad is gay if you can go on his site and read his reply’s to everyone and supports gay rights . That profile pic he or she uses is a gay symbol ,but it will trash any thing anyone has to say one here no matter what the Discussion is about in any state in this country as you will see ,we where I live have quit answering or replying to .These are kids that bash anything you will have to say .Just thought to let you know what trouble this person is and his Buddy Trosky they team up to put you down for laughs just to keep you replying to them so they try making fools out of good American People . Most likely Terrorist that is what we all have determined .

      • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

        Thank you for letting me know 🙂

  • BarkingDawg

    Buh Bye.

  • BarkingDawg

    Maybe they can set up a GodFundMe account.

  • Josey

    I think I would have too, the scripture comes to my mind in Jeremiah 51:45 My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD. Judgement is coming, this is in God’s hands now. The battle is the Lords’s, those of of us who are able have to pray and do spiritual warfare for the people of God.

  • barry

    others are saying stay and deny the license , but remember there is another twist to justice because being brought into court is too much of a financial issue where money gives more permission for justice than the justice system by itself . the richer you are the more successful you will be in court . America saying one thing and doing another. seems like nobody wants to fix that either along with government spending and private donations to election campaigns and putting a check and balance on the power of lobbying . the list is way longer.

  • John Kunjukunju

    Human beings have no right or authority to rule against the Nature’s Law. SC, Executive branch and Law-makers have overstepped their boundary in the gay marriage legalizing decision. More than a religious conviction it is a matter of Law of Nature. The right minded citizens must say wrong is wrong. Repent and reverse the decision.

    • BarkingDawg

      Knock it off and grow up already.

    • Dean Dixon

      The law of nature? Is that like the Call Of The Wild. Actually homosexuality does exist in nature. Besides the Constitution Trumps The Law Of Nature, The Law Of God, and any other law you’d like to come up with. If you have a problem with that your are free to leave the country.

  • BarkingDawg

    These three work for ALL the people of the county, not just for those whose religious views that they happen to agree with.

    Good bye and good riddance

  • BarkingDawg

    The Decatur County Mayor has issued a statement.

    Now, with Ms. Pope’s resignation, in accordance with state law, a temporary successor county clerk has been named. Mr. Jack Martin is now Decatur County’s County Clerk. Mr. Martin will serve until the County Commission appoints another person. Meanwhile, Mr. Martin has taken the oath of office, including affirming his obligation and willingness to follow the law, whether he personally agrees with the law or not.

    Life moves on.

  • Pat Pirie

    This is happening in the UK too. Christians are slowly reaching the point of persecution and need to stand up for the gospel teaching whatever it costs in order that God should be glorified.

    • middledebo

      Nobody is persecuting you, Pat. You have it backwards. You are still free to have your beliefs. You are just not free to force those on others. I could care less what you believe. I’m secure in myself and my own religious beliefs. I don’t need you or anyone to preach at me or tell me how to live my life, so I just walk away from those who feel the need to do that and feel no threat from them. And yes, I am a Christian.

  • Jerry Krause

    I suppose the clerks were not in agreement with gays wanting to redefine marriage: On the subject of gays wanting to change the meaning of “marriage” and imposing it on everyone else, it was stated that marriage predates religion. True the words “faith” and “religion” are used interchangeably, but there is a distinction whereas faith more appropriately is a reference to believing in God. Many associate religions with
    churches which can be said did not exist prior to the New Testament times. The word “marriage” is repeatedly used in the Bible, especially the King James Version which was written in 1611. According to the etymology dictionary the word “marriage” originated around 1300 meaning “action of marrying, entry into wedlock” and “state or condition of being husband and wife, matrimony, wedlock.” Even before this, though, God established the true marriage relationship (Psalm 47:2; cf. Daniel 4:34-35). It also stated by Jesus Christ that marriage was instituted by God (see: Matthew 19:4-5; Mark 10:6). Let us not overlook Genesis 2:21-24 sometimes referred to as the first romance of the Bible; the last verses stating “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” This is the origin of the word “marriage” that gays want to change. They can have their “civil union” or what have you, but marriage has always been a covenant between a man and a woman. This is probably what the clerks are saying. God Bless them all….

    • EliyahuBenYisroel

      You’ve left out a few other biblical definitions of marriage, though. Just looking at the marriages of those who are revered in scripture, there’s also a man and two women, a man and two women and their handmaids, a man and seven hundred women (it’s good to be the king), and, by biblical law, a rapist and the virgin he rapes, and a man and the woman he captures in a military siege. Be careful in asking that Biblical doctrine be enacted into civil law…

      • Jerry Krause

        I was looking at God’s intent, rather than man’s ill-behavior.

      • Jerry Krause

        I was focusing on God’s intent; rather than man’s ill-behavior.

    • Jerry Krause

      Twice I have attempted to replied; however, there seems to be a processing error of some sort. Let me try again: I was focusing on God’s intent; rather than man’s ill-behavior.

  • Tamela Beckman

    TAKE A STAND!! These ladies will have special rewards in heaven. We’re coming to the time in America where we’re gonna have a backbone like the 3 Hebrew children or Elijah or we’re gonna waffle like Aaron and wring our hands and say the people made me do it….that’s how everyone is dancing around this golden calf!! Believers…it’s time to STAND for what you believe!

    • BarkingDawg

      Fine. But don’t do it as a government employee.

  • Marquita martin

    A clerk wouldn’t have any way of knowing if two people were divorced and remarrying or of the background of their divorces. It’s very obvious when two people of the same sex are applying to get married. If they remained in their jobs and just said “no”, then they would be fired. It’s more difficult to find work after you’ve been fired than if you quit. We all have to draw our lines eventually.

    • BarkingDawg

      The county has replaced them already.

      A county with only 11,000 people in it can’t afford to fight a lawsuit they are destined to lose.

    • EliyahuBenYisroel

      And if she did know that the couple were previously divorced, or that they’d been fornicating, would she be justified in refusing to issue a license to them? If not, how is that different?

  • http://americanopinionate.wordpress.com/ AmericanOpinionate

    Well Girls,.. get in line… The unemployment line….I thought Jesus was a teacher of tolerance and Love for all.. maybe I read it wrong..I’ll have to go look again. Oh no..I won’t have to go do that… that’s what Jesus taught.I don’t have to look again.. and there was something in the Book of Mark that stated something about not judging others lest thee be judged thyself.. or some such nonsense like that..or don’t You truly believe in what You Preach…???

    • Dia19

      2Timothy 4:2-4
      Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear

  • Carlos A Donate

    May the Lord give these folks grace to carry on this ensuing battle for righteousness, in Jesus name, Amen.

    • BarkingDawg

      The battle is over. The county administrator (the mayor of the county) has already appointed a replacement who has promised to issue licensed to everyone as per the law, same sex couples included.

  • Crusader777

    The Holy Spirit is saying to the Churches:
    It is time to arise and shine my
    love, my bride. The time is short before I open the door for my bride to
    come in. Where evil abounds Grace much more abounds. Stop worrying
    about the things of this world and fill your lamps with oil and let them
    shine bright for the world to see.
    My Church, my bride I command to
    wake up from your slumber and unite as one to prepare for my soon
    return. You must arise and shine my love and power into all of the dark
    places and scatter the enemy in every direction. Those who truly believe
    will go forth and in My Name show the world my Word is true with signs
    and wonders and miracles.
    The day to repent and to live a holy life
    has come, be ye Holy as I am Holy. To the leaders of my Church I warn
    you this very day to prepare my people for my soon return. You must stop
    running my Father’s House as a business and truly focus on saving men’s
    souls and uniting my Churches with things in common. Judgement will
    start in my House first and the time is now, leaders pray and repent and
    do what is right in My sight.
    I have lit up the Heaven’s with signs
    and sent my prophets forth to warn people and yet they ignore the things
    that are there for all to see. I will pour out my glory in my house one
    last time to bring in a great harvest and I command those called by my
    name to arise and take a stand for righteousness sake. The time is now
    ARISE MY LOVE!!!

  • Bendy Bentley

    Good riddance to the trash. Have fun being poor.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=923jxZY2NPI Pale Blue Dot

    Good. If you refuse to serve the public, don’t be a public servant.

  • Ligdo Nunez

    This is my Question if they believe in that thing called god… wouldnt you be thinking that at the beginning they were THANKING THEIR GOD FOR THE JOB THEY GOT? It makes me think again THEY ARE SO F. HYPOCRITES WITH THEIR OWN GOD!!!!! WHAT A SHAMEFUL PEOPLE. I just hope they go all to THE HELL if exist… for doing something so obviously against their own god and “religion”

  • Bastet’sMom

    Those women disobey God’s commands every single day: Corinthians 11:6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head. Timothy 2:12, “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence”. 1 Corinthians 14:34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

    • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

      What idiotic beliefs! Women are human beings no less than men (and more intelligent in many cases). Of course, you may be speaking tongue-in-cheek, but it’s difficult to tell since many insanely fundamentalists really believe that.

      • Bastet’sMom

        Believe me, it was total sarcasm.

  • Dee

    Jesus said in Matthew 5:28 that if anyone looks at another person with lust they have committed adultery with them in their heart. So, I guess noone would be getting married if licenses weren’t issued because of adultery. Using the adultery argument doesn’t really fly in this instance.

  • http://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/ Ted R. Weiland

    Praise God! Of course, had the late 18th-century founders not rejected Yahweh as
    sovereign and His unchanging moral law as supreme, this would not have been necessary.

    Had the constitutional framers (like their 17th-century Christian Colonial predecessors) established government and society upon Yahweh’s commandments, statutes, and judgments (including Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13), there would be no homosexual agenda in America today because no sodomite or lesbian would dare risk exposing themselves to petition government for their rights. And any judge ruling on their behalf would be found guilty of complicity in a capital crime.

    For more on how Yahweh’s immutable moral law applies and should be implemented today, see free online book “Law and Kingdom: Their Relevance Under the New Covenant.” Click on my name, then our website. Go to our Online Books page and scroll down to title.

    Then find out how much you REALLY know about the Constitution as compared to
    the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the right-hand sidebar and receive a FREE copy of a book that EXAMINES the Constitution by the Bible.

    • Grundune

      Troll Alert…

      Ted R. Weiland is advertising his anti-U.S. Constitution business.

      Yes,
      it’s sad, but a preacher has been reduced to ranting against the U.S.
      Constitution instead of saving souls. At least he’s not preaching the
      word of God for filthy lucre because he isn’t preaching the word of God.
      Ask him about the filthy lucre.

    • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

      Another faux “authority” attempting to enjoy financial gain by preying on poorly educated Christians. I, too, have a book and a website, but I don’t use opinion sites to profit by them. If your comments are intelligent and insightful enough, then readers will review your profile.

      • http://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/ Ted R. Weiland

        “[T]here are no such things done as thou sayest, but thou feignest them out of thine own [wicked] heart.” (Nehemiah 6:8)

        Not only did you intentionally overlook the word “FREE” but you’re nuts if you think there’s money in exposing America’s national idol as biblically seditious.

        • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

          The word, “free” is used by advertisers as a “come-on” and a hook to get folks to visit the advertiser’s site where they are given just enough information (parsed) to get them to buy a product–in your case, apparently it’s a book.

          Still, your presentation is enough to turn folks off.

          • http://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/ Ted R. Weiland

            “[T]here are no such things done as thou sayest, but thou feignest them out of thine own [wicked] heart.” (Nehemiah 6:8)

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

            Whatever.

        • Grundune

          You’re busted, Ted R. Weiland.

          “Free” is code for send me donations so I can continue my crusade against the U.S. Constitution.

          Aren’t the Marxists coughing up enough or are you getting greedy?

          • T. Edward Price

            You’re busted, Grundune.

            You accuse the free gift of God’s grace of being for sale.

          • Grundune

            I repeat, again:

            “If you accuse me of saying something that I didn’t say to slander me, is that lying?”

            It’s not a hard question. A “yes” or a “no” will do as long as it is the truth

          • Grundune

            Say, what?

            BTW, are you having trouble deciding if accusing me of saying something I didn’t, is lying? Well, is it or isn’t it? Waiting……..

        • Grundune

          I thought “FREE” was your enterprise’s way of luring in suckers.

      • T. Edward Price

        Unless you can offer proof that Pastor Weiland, in freely offering his works to anyone who asks, is profiting, you are guilty of violating the Ninth Commandment.

        • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

          So, his book is free? There is no charge for anything on his site?

  • Kathryn Sliwinski Brandys

    I’m not sure all of you are aware here but you do know the bible is just a select group of stories that were handed down told generation to generation. They weren’t even written down for hundreds of years because people couldn’t read. Now I’m sure you remember the telephone game kids play. Now add hundreds of thousands of people over hundreds of years. Finally a group of men sat down and decided what stories fit together best and put the main characters in the best light. (There was a story about a talking dragon but it wasn’t put in even though it was very popular because it was decided people wouldn’t think it wasn’t very believable.) When you also consider the Greeks worshipped their Gods long than we have worshipped Jesus. I’m just saying to assume our God is the one and only perfect one is rather arrogant.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    The right thing to do in Sodom! Today’s USA only values the atheists and sexually sinful people within and persecutes the Christians. America Christians need a new sovereignty to keep liberty.

    • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

      And, exactly how has the USA persecuted Christians? Please consider the Establishment Clause and the Equal Protection Clause in your response.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        USA blasphemes while prohibiting the mention of God in the right way, forces people to accept the sin of homosexuality as normality and serve the sin, and forces people to pay for infanticide. It funds infanticide and Sodomy around the world. USA violates against God’s Word and human conscience. The nation is this century’s human rights abuser. The Western secularism corrupts mankind and is at odd with morality. People need freedom from America’s cultural colonization. America is Sodomic and it has no rights to order around the people.

        • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

          Okay, so you are generally against the Constitution, especially the Establishment Clause and the Equal Protection Clause.

          I’m guessing that you are also in favor of a christian theocracy and you are, possibly, a reconstructionist? Do you want anti-blasphemy laws like Islam?

          You still haven’t said exactly how Christians are being persecuted in the U.S.

          It appears to me that Christians such as yourself consider that you are being persecuted by the government’s refusal to allow you to persecute others.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The American people like you and the SCOTUS ruling on gay “marriage” are against the US Constitution, going against the truth and installing falsehood by force. I think America needs to get split into regions; the liberals persecute the Christians too much that coexistence is impossible. You Americns didn’t listen until the last century when we colored people were saying you guys are being unfair to us. Why are you being unfair and oppressive again on the Christians? Because you are not the victims, you could say, “what’s wrong?” We needed your Christian education but not your Sodomy. Gay “marriage” is not marriage but a sin, according to the Holy Bible and clear human conscience. Stop talking non-sense. Now SCOTUS is forcing the evil, immoral non-sense AGAINST the US Constitution.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

            >>liberals persecute the Christians too much that coexistence is impossible.<>Why are you being unfair and oppressive again on the Christians?<<

            Exactly what am I doing that is "unfair and oppressive" to Christians? I think you have a very broad definition of "unfairness" and "oppression."

            Is it that we prevent you from oppressing others who do not believe as you, and you believe that is oppressing you? You want the freedom to manage the lives of others? I wish to leave everyone alone to manage his own life.

            If I want to leave you alone to believe as you wish and live YOUR live as you so desire, but you want to dictate to me how to live MY life, who is oppressing whom?

            I do not believe your Bible, but I'm quite content that you do.

            I wish to live as I see fit and do unto others as I would have them do unto me. Therefore, I do not meddle in the lives of others, but am happy to debate issues with anyone on most any subject. That isn't meddling or persecuting. Civil debate is one of the best methods to learn and to teach.

            Thus, the Golden Rule is my only tenet. I believe everyone should have the same rights I claim for myself, even to marrying a person loved. If a homosexual couple marry, I am happy that they are seeking happiness through matrimony. It does not "pick my pocket or break my legs." It changes my life not one iota. How have you allowed it to change yours?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Sorry for my delayed reply. The mail has been left out somehow. Yes, only Christians are moral and decent and have rights to tell you what to do. No one should obey secular hedonists. The Western secularism is no truth at all. It has a lot of wrong and immoral defects. If all beliefs are treated equally, innocent victims are produced limitlessly and evil atrocities will go on among mankind. The world needs education from the Church to be civilized. The world’s barbarism including the West’s must be fixed by the Church so that mankind will become humane. The West has gone immoral and barbaric this century because it lost Christianity. You guys need help. Gay “marriage” is not marriage. I cannot live a lie. Why do you insist people have no rights to declare the truth? It’s religious persecution. You are not living out the Golden Rule. If you were, you’d tell homosexual couples to repent instead of fanning them to eternal destruction. They need to get saved by hearing God’s truth and must never be encouraged to keep sinning. Truth-telling has nothing wrong and it is indeed the only true love.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

            No problem on the delayed response, I, too, have been quite busy. My emails are now backed up to the stone age and I was doing a wholesale deletion of them this morning when I came across your reply. I really appreciate your civility even though I think your position is completely irrational.

            Yes, only Christians are moral and decent and have rights to tell you what to do.

            First, do you realize that all you say about your faith is exactly what fundamentalists of all religions say about theirs?

            I may have mentioned it before, forgive me if I have, but I was once a de facto Christian fundamentalist. However, the strongest aspect of my nature was a need to understand what most approximates truth.

            Having that attribute, it was, I suppose, inevitable that I underwent three “revelations” that set me on a journey to de facto atheism.

            I’ve described this journey in the preface of my novel, The Empathy Imperative. I’ll bypass the first two “revelations” on this blog and post only the last.

            The final straw that broke the back of my theological camel was my own argument against three Mormons who were trying to convert me. After a couple of hours of debate, I finally asked them, “how do you know you are right?” The three answered almost in unison, “I know in my heart I am right.”

            I answered, “Yes, you know that in your hearts, but so do the Catholics, the Jews, the Muslims, the Hindu, and every person of every religion. They all know in their hearts they are right.”

            As it happened, after leaving them and heading back to my barrack, something was bothering me and I wasn’t sure what. The next morning, however, I awoke with a start. I suddenly realized that my argument against their knowing in their hearts that they are right, applied to me as well.

            The logic was irrefutable. Most people in the world believe their religion to be The Truth because that is what they were taught to believe from tothood and then further nourished by the society into which they were born.

            Therefore, one’s religious “truth” is most often a function of happenstance of birth rather than a function of actual truth.

            Had I been born and raised as a Muslim (even a radical Muslim), I would most likely have grown up a Muslim (even a head chopping, radical Muslim), and I would have believed that to be The Truth every bit as much as any fundamentalist Christian beliefs his faith to be.

            This is the very basis for all religious wars, including the insanity of the crusades and the cruel and murderous auto de fes of the Catholic Church.

            Thus, when one comes to understand why he rejects all other religions/faiths, only then will he realize why they reject his.

            In order to avoid the religious conflict that had been the norm for untold centuries in Europe and the Middle East, the wise Founders of our Constitution created the Establishment Clause, forbidding any laws to be made respecting an establishment of religion. Any person may believe according to the dictates of his own conscience and no government agency or arm of such may direct him in what he must believe.

            That is why I do not tell you what you must believe and I, were I a Muslim, could not dictate to you that you must follow Sharia law or any aspect of it. That is the ONLY way to civil order.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Westerners’ ( such as yourself) attempt to equate Biblical Christianity with anything else on earth is invalid and futile. Earthlings from all backgrounds flee to the Christendom, not the other way around, because Christendom alone provides the truth, human rights, fairness, liberty, unconditional honesty, lawfulness, equality, and justice. No one flees to atheistic nations or to Islamic nations. If you were an honest man you’d have immigrated to North Korea the atheists’ utopia instead of attacking the Christians in a Christian nation. All the noble concepts are strictly Jude-Christian values from the Holy Bible – the reason only the Christendom created all the finest nations on earth for everyone to live in and mimic after. The pagans inluding the ancient Greeks had nice dreams but no substantial truth. You need Christian domoinion to be humane. Secularism corrupts mankind and turns people into worthless playboys, and atheism kills the believers and the unborn babies to sell their body parts. You Westerners’ deadly problem for the last several decades is that you think you have liberty and civility apart from Christianity. You don’t. Not at all. De-christianized West has worse barbarisms than raw pagan societies and it ruins children. You need to realize that. Godless secularists reject Christianity only so that they could engage in immorality and infanticide and other barbarisms all they want without restraint. There is Judgment Day and you need to repent to get saved.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

            Earthlings from all backgrounds flee to the Christendom, not the other way around, because Christendom alone provides the truth, human rights, fairness, liberty, unconditional honesty, lawfulness, equality, and justice. No one flees to atheistic nations or to Islamic nations.

            Sorry Grace, but that statement is loaded with misinformation. I would love to know where you came by your information.

            The fact is that the percentage of Christians in the world population has actually fallen in the past 115 years. The Pew Research Center finds that from 1910 to 2010 the world percentage of Christians has fallen from 34.8 to 31.7, and Islam is the fastest growing faith.

            According to a Pew Forum report released in April of 2015, projecting into the future from current trends, Islam is expected to grow by 73% and Christianity to grow by 35%. This includes both migration from religion to religion and birth rates within the cultures.

            None of this, however, is evidence of the truth of any religion. The logical argument I use is an adaptation from John S. Mill: If all the world were of ONE religion, the shear weight of all that belief, without evidence, lends not a witt of support for the truth of the religion.

            Therefore, in order to convince me, you must give evidence for the existence of your god. I can actually provide you with evidence that Christianity is based on (probable purposeful) mistranslations of ancient Jewish text.

            Christendom alone provides the truth, human rights, fairness, liberty, unconditional honesty, lawfulness, equality, and justice.

            Sorry again, but this notion is very dangerous. Please understand that if one believes that, one is completely open to charlatans (clergy and politicians). You do not believe you are being lied to by politicians who wear their “Christianity” on their sleeves?

            Human rights? But you don’t believe all humans have a right to their own beliefs, free from pressure/coercion from other beliefs to convert them. You call them “evil” while a great many of them call you “evil.”

            “equality, and justice?” But you don’t believe people’s religious beliefs, or their right to practice them, is equal to yours. I submit, too, that you cannot explain how your view is compatible with justice. What is your definition of justice?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            I’m not talking about population change; I’m talking about the excellence of nations. All of the desirable nations are Christendom and the hard-core mimickers. The Muslims are coming to the Christian nations to live, not the other way around. Christianity is Jesus Christ, the promised Jewish Messiah from the dawn of time, prophesied by the Jewish Bible. You secular Westerners are at lost because the West has kept all the noble Christian concepts for more than 1,000 years and is taking them for granted; other civilizations are not so fortunate at all except for Israel. Your good common sense has been from Christianity, although you are losing it altogether this century because you are rejecting Christianity. All other ideologies/religions do not even have sense of fairness or justice; men and women and children are not equal there, or the unborns are sub-human to them. Judeo-Christian value is the only safe umbrella for all to be safe and to exercise freedom of conscience. All others are oppressive. You need honesty.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

            Do you not see what you are doing? It is a condescension of all other people of the world. It is the epitome of the holier-than-thou attitude–my-way-or-the-highway attitude.

            You claim that Christianity brings equality, justice and human rights. But your statements contradict that very notion because, apparently, you believe this condition to exist ONLY for Christians–not all humans. You even stated that Christians have a right to tell others what to do, but apparently you do not believe that others have any right to tell Christians what to do. You call that “equal” and “just?”

            Let me just go back and directly have you give a good answer to exactly Why do you believe Christianity to be The Truth, and please place your answer in the context of my argument that one’s religious believes are most often a product of what one is taught to believe from tothood and that others believe theirs to be the truth every bit as fervently as you believe yours.

            I ask this because it is the very question that made me realize that religious certitude is THE greatest barrier to human brotherhood/sisterhood and that secularism is the only bridge across xenophobia and tribalism. It is the only path to peace.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Thank you. Now it’s much better. 1) No, Christianiy is not condescension but a practical truth. Mankind is sinful and needs salvation and needs to be reformed by Christian education to become a civil society. Christians BRING truth, human rights, liberty, equality, and justice into all the human world. No other religions or ideologies are able to do it.

            2) Christianity alone teaches on the one true Creator God and His love and salvation by Jesus, treats every human being( including the unborns) equal before God and acknowledges their precious value as God’s image bearers, grants everyone freedom to exercise sane beliefs according to one’s own conscience, and carries out universal charity and the highest standard of morality. No others can do it. In fact, outside of Christendom and its mimickers, religious freedom – the basis of all human rights – does not even exist. All others produce innocent victims by injustice.

            3)The secular West’s problem is that it forces atheism and immorality upon the people and falsely thinks it’s being fair. It is not. The West got all the good and ethical things from Christianity; when it lost Christianity, it’s just a non-stop mechanism to spread only godless atheism and sexual immorality. Your peace is only for those who agree with you and not for everyone. Secularists are never mature like the Christians. Secularism is another form of barbarism with infanticide and immorality.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

            Well, keep on keepin on with your abysmal hypocrisy, your complete fear of cognitive dissonance, and lack of intellectual curiosity. This can come only from the most insecure.

            Have a great life.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Those are objective facts. You need to repent of your unbelief to get saved.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            PS: Please keep your comments short( 5-10 lines) if you really want my reply item by item.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

            I was correct then. You have not read my arguments. On the last one I sent, if nothing else, please read the bold type and respond.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The concept of laws higher than kings and the rulers serving people instead of oppressing them is Judeo-Christian, too. Mankind vaguely dreamed, but the Bible-literate Christians alone brought it into reality. The Western secularism has gone deadly wrong when it placed humanity in the highest position instead of the one true living God. Now Western secularism is as worthless as any barbaric illiterate paganisms because secular humanism always kills and destroys. Man is only evil apart from God; man must never have made himself the standard of everything. God will destroy evil creatures of godless autonomy because they always dishonor the truth and abuse others.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

            God will destroy evil creatures of godless autonomy because they always dishonor the truth and abuse others.

            I am evil because I do not believe as you? Grace, I know that you are well meaning and cannot see the irony of your arguments, but you are avoiding responding to my arguments. I don’t think you even read the arguments. I’m only giving rebuttal to yours, but getting no reciprocity.

            Your view is precisely the reason our Founders created a secular Constitution. Your view was the dominant one throughout Europe for many centuries and was directly responsible for causing those centuries to be bathed in blood and violence.

            If you Google “Founders Online” along with “01-02-02-0132-0004-0082”, you will find a short document that lays out the reasoning behind the Establishment Clause and why it is applied to the States via the 14th Amendment.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The following mail has been omitted; I don’t know why. ( I wrote two comments last time. This one is actually the letter #1 written a day ago.) Here you go again:

            The Westerners’ ( such as yourself) attempt to equate Biblical Christianity with anything else on earth is invalid and futile. Earthlings from all backgrounds flee to the Christendom, not the other way around, because Christendom alone provides the truth, human rights, fairness, liberty, unconditional honesty, lawfulness, equality, and justice. No one flees to atheistic nations or to Islamic nations. If you were an honest man you’d have immigrated to North Korea the atheists’ utopia instead of attacking the Christians in a Christian nation. All the noble concepts are strictly Jude-Christian values from the Holy Bible – the reason only the Christendom created all the finest nations on earth for everyone to live in and mimic after. The pagans inluding the ancient Greeks had nice dreams but no substantial truth. You need Christian domoinion to be humane. Secularism corrupts mankind and turns people into worthless playboys, and atheism kills the believers and the unborn babies to sell their body parts. You Westerners’ deadly problem for the last several decades is that you think you have liberty and civility apart from Christianity. You don’t. Not at all. De-christianized West has worse barbarisms than raw pagan societies and it ruins children. You need to realize that. Godless secularists reject Christianity only so that they could engage in immorality and infanticide and other barbarisms all they want without restraint. There is Judgment Day and you need to repent to get saved.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            #2) I hope you’ve got my previous comment. Yes, godless autonomy is evil because you are a mere creature. You must submit to God as all creation should. No, the American Founders were Christian or Christian-educated and they were appealing to Christian population, no other. The Christian Church has been the West’s conscience and is the only reason for the Western civilization’s outstanding superiority; nothing else is. All regions on earth shed much blood for names, land, honor, and stuff like that(You Westerners should stop thinking that you guys only existed on earth until last century or something. Others existed, too, warring against each other), but the Christian West is the only civilization that fought for God’s objective truth and obtined it. More important than the US Constitution, there are Mayflower Compact and Declaration of Independence. Americans learned everything valuable and civil from the Christian British. You have nothing civil apart from them. The secular Westerners’ attempt to erase off Christianity’s massive contribution in the history field is as futile and dishonest as erasing off God’s creation work in the science field. You must humble yourself and read His Word to get saved.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

            Please name something Christianity has brought to the advancement of human health and science in general.

            And, BTW, you want me to limit my responses to a few lines, but that apparently does not apply to you. That is more of your concept of “equality?”

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            If it’s hard for you to read my comments, tell me. Christianity created the written language of English to start with and spread universal literacy for the need of reding the Holy Bible in the entire Planet Earth, and modern science developed only in the Christendom, nowhere else. The Protestant Reformation was about obtaining the objective truth in the world; only the Christian West had the attitude and diligence for the truth. Others only cared blood-relations and power and treasure, not the truth. It set apart the West and the rest permanently. You Westerners must remember you guys had been a bunch of illiterate child-killing nature-worshipping barbarians like the rest of mankind until the Church educated you to be humane and civil. Today’s unfair concept of equality cannot erase off the historic truths or reality. The West has given up the truth for the sake of false sense of equality; that’s why it has gone so wrong. The attempt to equate Christianity with anything else has been futile. You Westerners must not repay the good with evil by attacking the Christinity this century because it’s your own long-standing conscience. Apart from Christianity, all you had was barbarism, like the rest of mankind. Religions do some good to limit the uncontrollable atrocities of mankind, but only Christianity is true and humane. Every Earthling needs Christian education to be civil. Secularism produces only playboys and prostitutes and victimized children and a melting planet.

  • Michael Demeule-Calella

    I would like to make one correction to a very fundamental flaw in typical arguements by God fearing christians..that this is somehow satans work..while it is very important for christians to be strong in their faith it is also very important to be biblicaly accurate so here is what the bible says on satan…know your bible before making inane statements.we know biblicaly there are only 2 named angels..but here is the rest of the story ranslation of הֵילֵל as “Lucifer”, as in the King James Version, has been abandoned in modern English translations of Isaiah 14:12. Present-day translations have “morning star” (New International Version, New Century Version, New American Standard Bible, Good News Translation, Holman Christian Standard Bible, Contemporary English Version, Common English Bible, Complete Jewish Bible), “daystar” (New Jerusalem Bible, English Standard Version, The Message, “Day Star” New Revised Standard Version), “shining one” (New Life Version, New World Translation, JPS Tanakh) or “shining star” (New Living Translation).
    The term appears in the context of an oracle against a dead king of Babylon,[25] who is addressed as הילל בן שחר (hêlêl ben šāḥar),[26][27] rendered by the King James Version as “O Lucifer, son of the morning!” and by others as “morning star, son of the dawn”.

    In a modern translation from the original Hebrew, the passage in which the phrase “Lucifer” or “morning star” occurs begins with the statement: “On the day the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and turmoil and from the harsh labour forced on you, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: How the oppressor has come to an end! How his fury has ended!”[28] After describing the death of the king, the taunt continues:

    “How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’ But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit. Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: ‘Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, the man who made the world a wilderness, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?'”[29]
    J. Carl Laney has pointed out that in the final verses here quoted, the king of Babylon is described not as a god or an angel but as a man.[30][31]

    For the unnamed[32] “king of Babylon” a wide range of identifications have been proposed.[33] They include a Babylonian ruler of the prophet Isaiah’s own time[33] the later Nebuchadnezzar II, under whom the Babylonian captivity of the Jews began, or Nabonidus,[33][34] and the Assyrian kings Tiglath-Pileser, Sargon II and Sennacherib.[30][33][35] Herbert Wolf held that the “king of Babylon” was not a specific ruler but a generic representation of the whole line of rulers.[36]

    • Michael Demeule-Calella

      so while you typicaly use the word Satan and Devil as a Proper Noun in the bible the only proper noun was the word Lucifer which only appears in reference to a dead king of Babylon. sigh so look the guy has been dead for thousands of years..stop blaming the dead king for all the worlds troubles already.

  • Michael Demeule-Calella

    oh btw the Puritans also burned people on stakes as witches..which at the time they were doing it ran counter to the mainstream..so yeah the King took action..they did it again in the new world..so I’m guessing the backward superstitious acts of bigotry and ignorance really aught not be the guiding principles in our walk of faith. It never turns out well for anyone.

  • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

    Good for them to stand up for religious bigotry even though they are now out of a job. Now, perhaps, we can get some Constitutionalists in those positions. Would that all magistrates and judges do the same and, perhaps, we could slip more toward the just society we want to be.

    Now that that is done, perhaps we could address the most important cause of our time; removing legal bribery from our government–bring about public financed campaigns, ban corporate lobbying, and rescind Citizens United by legislation. (In other words–get the money out of politics). This is far more important than any other issue, important as they may be.

  • mknox

    I feel they did the right thing by resigning. This allows the county to hire employees who can discharge their duties without bringing their personal prejudices to bear. It’s a civil marriage license not a church wedding.

  • Mr-DJ

    The new “Walk of Shame”.

  • Tim V Johnson

    Good for them! We need to replace these slackers with public servants who will actually perform the assigned duties of their jobs–and who will actually honor the oath they swore before God when they accepted their positions to uphold ALL PARTS of the Constitution.

  • Bastet’sMom

    Pastors and priests are not required to marry anyone against their convictions. Everyone in a public business is required to serve the public equally. Taxpayers support a public business (roads, police, fire, and yes, the salary of those clerks) and taxpayers are sometimes homosexual, sometimes black, sometimes Muslim, sometimes Asian.

  • Gerry McDonnell

    There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death (Pro 16:25).
    That which cannot produce life inevitably leads to death, like gay marriage. We have
    just witnessed in Ireland a nation of baptized pagans, making godless decisions
    based on the principles of this world and not on the principles of Christ (Col 2:8). This is a nation that has not only rejected that which God has instituted, they have in doing so rejected God. It would appear that the gay lobby in America who financed the referendum in Ireland to the tune of thousands of dollars and like Ireland America has ‘gone back to wallowing in the mud’ (2 Pt 2:22) A nation in moral and spiritual apostasy.

  • R.A.M

    Why can’t everyone just shut their faces and stop all the perversion that is infecting this country instead of trying to argue with each other and get nowhere.

  • Bill Osborne

    Long before our government came into existence, marriage was created by Almighty God—the One who created man and woman. He is clear about the definition of marriage in His Holy Word: “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh” (Genesis 2:24, ESV).

    In the New Testament, Jesus reiterated God’s definition of marriage: “From the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife’” (Mark 10:6–7). The court did not define marriage, and therefore it is not entitled to redefine it.

  • John Holt

    So are these county clerks throughout the US having their religous rights violated when they hand out divorce defcrees outside of what the Bible says that you can get a divorce for? What about issuing people their second and third marriage licenses? Oh and the best part. Wait for it! Wait for it! Wait for it! What about issuing business licenses to people that want to open tattoo parlors. What about tobacco licenses? I mean doesn’t the Bible say not to mark up your body or do harmful things to it?

  • Robert H

    The ENTIRE staff of 3???? Get off the Cross, we need the wood. Why is this news?

  • Yvonne Desrosiers

    Refuse to do your job…then by all means quit and allow someone willing to fulfill the duties of employment to have the position. A marriage license is a civil document, NOT A RELIGIOUS DOCUMENT! It’s purpose is to allow the joining of assets. A civil marriage is enough to accomplish this. If you want your marriage to have a religious connection then you have it performed by a rabbi, minister, priest, iman etc,. You have the freedom to do that….or not.

    • Henry

      Obviously, like most Americans you are ignorant to the fact that in 2004 Kentucky amended its State Constitution that makes it unconstitutional for the state to recognize or perform same sex marriages? It mandates a $500 to $1,000 fine and removal from office of any magistrate who dares to marry two people of the same sex. The Kentucky Marriage Amendment, passed with 75% of the votes. It reads, “Only a marriage between one man and one woman shall be a marriage in Kentucky.”

      So, Kim Davis is well within her rights to refuse to marry sodomites, and U.S. District Judge David Bunning is the criminal that must be jailed, for jailing Kim Davis while having no jurisdiction in the Constitution of the state of Kentucky.

  • fallan

    1.5 billion Muslims 1.8 billion Christians and the silence from them re the gay agenda is deafening

  • BalancedMind

    Good riddance…