Kentucky Revokes Credentials of Detention Center Minister Over Ban on Calling Homosexuality ‘Sinful’

Bible III pdFRANKFORT, Ky. — The Kentucky Department of Juvenile Justice (DJJ) has revoked the volunteer credentials of a local pastor after he did not feel comfortable with signing an agreement not to refer to homosexuality as sinful.

“[Volunteers] shall not refer to juveniles by using derogatory language in a manner that conveys bias towards or hatred of the LGBTQI community. DJJ staff, volunteers, interns, and contractors shall not imply or tell LGBTQI juveniles that they are abnormal, deviant, sinful, or that they can or should change their sexual orientation or gender identity,” the “Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity” policy reads.

David Wells, a pastor with Pleasant View Baptist Church in McQuady, has been volunteering at the Warren County Regional Juvenile Detention Center for the past 10 years, ministering to troubled youth. But after he stated that he could not sign a new policy enacted last year about homosexuality and transgenderism, his volunteer status was revoked.

But Wells believes that he is particularly suited to minister to youth who are struggling with homosexuality and other matters of sexual temptation. He contacted the Virginia-based Liberty Counsel for assistance, which sent the DJJ a letter this week demanding that Wells be reinstated.

“[M]any children in the DJJ system have been sexually abused by others, including those of the same sex, and experience confusion about their sexuality, including feelings of same-sex attractions and compulsive sexual behavior,” the letter states. “Indeed, Mr. Wells himself is ideally suited to minister to them, as he was sexually abused for many years by a man when he was a young child, and successfully went on to overcome that abuse.”

Wells says that he has never spoken derogatorily with the youth, but has exhibited sensitivity in sharing the Scriptures to those who voluntarily receive his counseling.

“All of these children have asked Mr. Wells if there was any hope for them in this life, and in the life to come. He has told them without exception that Christ can, and would, forgive them, if they would repent and believe the gospel,” the letter outlines. “This message has given them hope, and many have told him this personally and in written correspondence.”

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But according to Liberty Counsel, Superintendent Gene Wade recently told Wells regarding the new policy, “You can give a Scripture reference to the kids, and let them look it up, but you can’t read it in their hearing. You can’t say ‘sinful;’ you can’t discuss sexual orientation—heterosexual or homosexual—period.”

He said that he is “just doing what the state is telling [him] to do.”

However, Liberty Counsel believes that the requirement is unconstitutional, both on a federal and state level.

“As applied to clergy and lay volunteers, Policy 912 raises classic straw-man arguments that no minister would use in speaking to troubled youth,” it said in its letter to DJJ. “It equates the teaching of the Bible on sexuality as ‘derogatory,’ ‘biased’ and ‘hateful,’ and treats a volunteer’s religious beliefs about homosexuality as a religious litmus test for DJJ access.”

Liberty Counsel has requested that DJJ respond to its correspondence by July 31, agreeing to revoke the policy and reinstate Wells.


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  • The Last Trump

    Hey, remember that time when there was freedom of speech, thought, expression and religion? Boy, those were the days… Found today only in history books.
    And in stories we tell our children and grandchildren…
    Shame on us for allowing this to happen 🙁

    • Lark62

      There is freedom of speech. Because the government is neutral, each individual is free to worship and believe as they wish. Fly 100 flags or 1000 from your home, your church or your car. But do not use government property or authority to establish a favored religious belief.

      The 1st amendment protects you too.

      • The Last Trump

        Wrong. As usual.
        The freedoms we once enjoyed meant that you could BE OFFENDED.
        And you had to suck it up buttercup. What, did you think everybody just agreed on everything before THIS generation? Hardly.
        This liberal left insanity today where everybody’s tender feelings get hurt over every little thing is just ridiculous.

        The banning and boycotting going on today over thought and speech control is out of control. And that’s why we are seeing an increasing
        number of utterly ridiculous cases such as this only now in this fascist generation of despisers of freedom. Today, it’s “if you don’t think like me I must destroy you”! Ask the Christian bakeries, churches, tee shirt makers, pizzeria’s, Chick Fil-A’ owners, conservatives, pro lifers, Duck Dynasty cast, and all the other examples too numerous to list here.

        Or hell, just ask Donald Trump! Ridiculous and shameful attempts to stifle and bully those who simply speak truth. Or express their own views as they see fit. If that bothers or offends you, too bad.
        Grow up. Get over it. And move on. Just like we always did before.

        • Lark62

          We agree on one thing. Freedom of speech means freedom to offend. This is actually one of the 7 Tenets of the Satanic Temple. So you and I also agree with them.

          I agree with you that preventing speech because it might offend someone is wrong.

          Last I checked, christians boycott lots of companies as well. That is also speech. Freedom of speech does not mean anyone has to like what you say. Freedom of speech means person A can say something obnoxious. Freedom of speech also means person B can call person A a blathering idiot.

          But all of this is off topic. This is about a government organization promoting one flavor of religion. That is against the 1st Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

          No one may use government property or authority to establish a favored religious belief.

          No one is banning the same christian flag.

          • The Last Trump

            Still wrong I’m afraid.
            Or judges and witnesses giving sworn testimony, and presidents and other government officials wouldn’t have been swearing oaths over the HOLY BIBLE for generations, now would they? Or closing shop and enforcing public holidays on the specific Judeo-Christian observances of Christmas and Easter, with Christmas trees adorning every building in the public and private sector up until that practice TOO has been attacked & banned, again only recently in THIS generation.
            Spin your yarns and tell your tales but you simply can’t erase the truth of known history. America has always been a nation that has promoted, endorsed and spread the Christian faith. No matter how much you modern liberals wish it wasn’t so. And all of these symbols of the Christian faith whether they be flags, crosses, pictures of Jesus, or even prayers to God and the teaching of the Bible have been perfectly fine practices in accordance to the Constitution since the founding of the country over two hundred years ago. Funny how, it’s just now, THIS godless and hedonistic generation, that seems to have such problems with it huh? Exactly. Go figure.

          • Disqusdmnj

            And slavery was wrong for centuries before we fixed that too. You don’t have to swear on a Bible, or you can choose to swear on some other book (imagine that, swearing on a Quoran!). And you can have as many holiday trees on all the private sector you want, but on public property, it cannot ONLY be a nativity scene. That’s the only change, and people are merely challenging what has always just been accepted. You want baby Jesus in the manger? Then you also have to allow a Hannukah menorah AND Baphomet to be displayed. If a municipal building doesn’t want to allow them, then they can’t allow any. Pretty simple.

          • Ken Campbell

            Its always intriguing that people swear to tell the truth by putting their hand on a book of stories

          • StereoMan

            The USA was in no sense founded on the Christian faith, Trumpy.

        • Names_Stan

          >>>”Today, it’s “if you don’t think like me I must destroy you”<<<

          Actually, that's what you're asking the government to say.

          What if you got arrested in Detroit, and when they walked you inside the police station, there was a Muslim flag flying? I wouldn't like that. And my constitution prevents that from happening.

          Detroit probably already has more Muslims than Christians, so it's not a far out possibility. And if you force Muslims and Jews to "think like you", they're gonna do the same thing where they have the power.

          Personally I don't think you're understanding what the original post said. He said clearly you can hang as many flags as you want. But forcing Muslims or Jews or whoever to listen to a Christian prayer or salute a Christian flag is 100% a violation of the constitution. And it will haunt us down the road to force these things on them.

          Every American has a right to expect their government won't take a religious position with their tax dollars. That's not what governments of free people do.

    • Homer for God

      Be careful history books are not reliable anymore. Remember atheists think the Bible is like that so they might think that way about other history books as well. But I’m sure they will find out a way to abolish freedom of religion as well officially one day soon.
      Boy I can’t wait for judgement
      God Bless

      • Jim H

        No serious modern academic Bible scholar considers it history.

        • Homer for God

          No recent scholar no. Satan has already made that possable…God Bless

          • Jim H

            Recent? How about Augustine (354–430) wrote of the need for reason in interpreting Jewish and Christian scripture, and of much of the Book of Genesis being an extended metaphor.

            De Genesi ad literam 1:19–20, Chapt. 19 [408], De Genesi ad literam, 2:9

          • Homer for God

            ‘Augustine (354–430) wrote of the need for reason in interpreting Jewish and Christian scripture, and of much of the Book of Genesis being an extended metaphor.”

            So you give me a man who needs a excuse to interpret God’s Word? Then proceeds to to reject one part of the Word due to not having a reason?
            Oh I said recent history. 354 is not recent….God Bless

          • Jim H

            “So you give me a man who needs a excuse to interpret God’s Word?”

            Yes, a very influential theologian.

            “Then proceeds to to reject one part of the Word due to not having a reason?”

            No, needing to use reason is not the same as not having a reason.

            “Oh I said recent history. 354 is not recent.”
            Your contention was that viewing the Bible as history was a recent development. I merely pointed out it was hardly recent.
            Sorry if my points were too subtle for you.

      • Ken Campbell

        The bible is only considered ‘history’ by a very small and uneducated minority

        • Homer for God

          Over 60% of the world’s population is not a small minority, but I will agree that the more and more sin is being widespread acceptable and satan’s demons take out any mention of God through removal of symbols, fining those for having beliefs and other continuing oppression of Christ’s followers, that number will go down. Hence Judgement coming soon., God Bless

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Amen.Judgement is coming. And God wins the battle.Satan and his followers lose.They can not stop God.

          • Ken Campbell

            Most people who identify as Christians do not consider the Bible an historically accurate book. They see themselves as ‘spiritual Christians’ but not ‘literal Christians’.

          • Homer for God

            And those people (like everyone else) will take it up with God on judgement day. God bless

          • Ken Campbell

            However, in the meantime, we shall consider the Bible to be a book of legends and will consider religion to be a sociological concept whose time has ended

      • Names_Stan

        A) The opposite of freedom of religion is when the government pushes a specific one. That’s been true since the country formed.

        B) Saying you “can’t wait for the judgement” may possibly be the most sinful attitude a person claiming Christ could ever have. You’re literally telling God and man that you wish billions of years of torture on other human beings. If God is happy with that attitude, He isn’t God.

        • Homer for God

          Reply a) Our government never pushed anything specific as God covers all. Christianity is the only thing being taken from America and it’s not because of “separation of church and state” as you and atheists claim, but a total removal of morality through treats and intimidation all the while you they cry victim stance.
          Reply b) I’m never going to apologize for wanting to get to the new earth as soon as possible. You have been misunderstood on what that statement implies. No Christian (especially me) ever wants anyone to be tortured anytime. That’s why we disciple and spread the good news of Christ so other wouldn’t have to. Unfortunately we know not everyone is going to want to hear the good news and flat out reject it. We still love them and pray for them. As far as your torture statement, if you read the Word, it said there will be a period of peace on the new earth that will last a thousand years before satan is let loose one final time on earth. Then it will be final and those who have rejected God and his teaching will simply cease to exist
          I’m sorry you don’t agree and I accept it. I just know that in order for myself and other Christian disciples to spread the gospel and teach is to be a little more blunt then we have to. It’s not something non-believers want to hear, but the message hasn’t changed in over 2000 years and I don’t see it changing now because man doesn’t like it. God is the only authority.
          God Bless

          • Names_Stan

            Nothing’s changed about my morality. I was taught to do the right thing because it was the right thing to do. Doing the right thing out of promise of heaven or threat of hell isn’t especially impressive…and I certainly can’t believe that God finds it impressive. Anyone who would be purposefully immoral without the carrot or the stick is already immoral, because obviously that’s where their heart is.

            As to the government not pushing anything because it’s all about God or whatever:
            The Muslim population in some neighborhoods is already at a majority. If your child moved there after college, would you want her having to cover her head and hear Muslim prayers at ball games? I wouldn’t. No one religion should see their taxes paid for the gov’t sponsorship of another religion. The people who formed this country had the foresight to realize that.

            Even if we were 100% Christian it’s a terrible idea. I remember to this day several “public” prayers at games and town events where the person praying stated things that were different from how I was indoctrinated. In turn I shouldn’t have to explain to my kids why “that man said thank you for Hell” or “please help us speak in tongues” or “return today and raise the dead”.
            That’s just not America, having to go to a ball game or citywide event and having that forced on us.

            And I have no problem with you believing in Annihilationism. I think scriptural evidence for that is more sound than for eternal torture.

            However, most would call you a heretic. I happen to be one too, for believing that God having victory in the end probably doesn’t imply burning most of creation.

    • DNelson

      “Hey, remember that time when there was freedom of speech, thought, expression and religion? ”

      Don’t need to remember. It exists now. You are free to think what you want. You are free to believe in whatever religion you are care to. You are free to speak and express your beliefs within the boundaries of the law, which has been the case since the founding of our nation.

      Your petulant whining that just because your religious belief is no longer given preferential treatment equates to you losing your freedoms is simply false.

    • Peter Leh

      “Hey, remember that time when there was freedom of speech, thought, expression and religion?”

      if true, how are you able to post here? Why has the government not cited you?

      self pity does not a martyr make.

    • Ken Campbell

      What part of this is different today? What ‘freedom of speech’ are you missing? What thoughts did you want to have? What sort of religious expression are you missing?

  • Betty Davis

    I would throw the atheist in jail for complaining!!!!! That’s EXACTLY what I would do!! Shame on that police department!!!, The Word of God says that you are participating in their sin if you stand with them and not against them!!!

    • Lark62

      Wow. First you would violate the Constitution by having the govt promote one flavor of religion. Then you would violate the Constitution by denying your fellow citizens freedom of speech.

      The Bible commands respect for secular authorities. Respecting our Constitution does not violate biblical principles.

  • Mr. Avatar

    Find those atheist and find something they have done that is ilegal and arrest them or give them a ticket. And do it legally.

    • Jayne101

      So basically, you are telling the police to do what it is that the police are supposed to do. Catch law breakers.

      Or did you mean that you wanted them to hunt down this particular atheist specifically?

  • Emmanuel

    This is not about the flag itself but the removal of God. The left have stopped flying their flags a lot time ago. We, Christians, need to continue to wave our flag proudly. Our flag is Jesus. hey left, remove all the physical flags you want but one flag will never come down.

    • Jayne101

      If god is everywhere, why do you need a bit of cloth to show it?

      Would you also allow the flying of the flag of Islam on that pole? To represent the Muslim community? Or do you only believe that it is your beliefs that deserve it.

      And you can keep your mental flag flying all you like. It is on private property.

      • bowie1

        “We” don’t need it. It is a reflection of what the flyer of the flag wants to show.

        • Jayne101

          So why are people complaining? If you don’t need it, and it is very clear that as a government agency they cannot show support to one religion over another, there is nothing wrong here to complain about.

          • bowie1

            Well, the complainers got what they want.

          • Jayne101

            That doesn’t actually answer the question though does it. It just avoids it. If you genuinely believe that you have a valid and legal position, you shouldn’t struggle to present it.

            We didn’t “get what we want”, we simply asked that the law be followed by a police station.

            Can you tell me why that is wrong?

          • Homer for God

            “We didn’t “get what we want”, we simply asked that the law be followed by a police station.”

            And they obliged. You got what you want. You can sleep better at night now. Just know we will still pray for you as much and more.

            God Bless

          • Ken Campbell

            If it was your choice Homer, what would you want to have happen? Do you think it is appropriate to fly a religious flag at a government office?

          • Homer for God

            Yes because it wasn’t an issue recently. Do you see prayer meetings being held during work hours? No. No one has ever forced our public officials force God on anyone.
            Second again it’s not their justification of “separation of church and state” that is their reason for removal. They want any kind of reminder that there is a God and that same God is over everything including our government. You say it will only affect government, but the Word tells us it only starts there.
            I’m not going to argue the point, because I accepted the issue a long time before it was official. God has already prepared his children for this day. He also warned us of those who support this deception. We are told not to engage in arguments but pray for understanding and to stay vigilant in Him

          • Ken Campbell

            I never said a Christian flag Homer. The Iranians fly a religious flag over all of their government offices. So do the Saudis.

            Do you want to live in a country where the ‘god’ being promoted is not your god? Would you consider that to be fair and reasonable. In my experience, the Christians are generally fine with flying a religious flag as long as it is THEIR religious flag.

            Good luck on your dreams of judgment day. Your beliefs will lead to a lifetime of frustration and anger as you watch your oppressive religious ideas erode into the background

          • Homer for God

            This country’s constitution was built to tell everyone that they can express themselves and their religion freely. If it was meant for freedom as long as its not on a government office, then the wording should reflect it. I don’t support or condone homosexual behavior, but if our courthouse wants to be painted rainbow colors, then it’s their constitutional right.
            You seem to think I support oppression. No I support the same freedom of expression. Most of all I support God and His Word. He is the final authority.
            God bless

          • Ken Campbell

            It is fine to paint a courthouse in rainbow colors as the rainbow colors do not represent a religion. If they want to put a giant cross in their yard, I will take issue. I have no problem with religious people of any religion. I only have a problem if religious people assume that they will get their way

          • Jayne101

            So you are going to kneel down and ask the all powerful creator of reality to mind rape me and make me think like you against me will?

            If you want to make a difference, DO something, praying is literally the very least you can do.

          • Homer for God

            “So you are going to kneel down and ask the all powerful creator of reality to mind rape me and make me think like you against me will?”

            I’m sorry you have to look at life so morbidly, but no. I will and have prayed that God will show you understanding. Your choice is your own. I can’t make it for you and neither can God (believe it or not). I would also rather you think for yourself thanks.

            “If you want to make a difference, DO something, praying is literally the very least you can do.”

            I am. I am spreading this good news that is the wonderful salvation the Lord has given us through Jesus. Prayer might be the least thing to do but it has the most powerful results.
            God Bless

        • Lark62

          But the flyer of the flag needs to use his own property, not govt property.

      • Emmanuel

        The flag will be present at the voting booths all over American in 2016.

        • Ken Campbell

          That would be frightening. A theocracy in the making

          • Emmanuel

            Who said anything about a theocracy?

          • Ken Campbell

            Any religious flag flying at voting booths is a threat.

          • Emmanuel

            OK, I’m going to dumb it down for all you lefties. You can take down flags but when the grown ups vote, they vote with conviction and common sense; the internal flag we wave named Jesus. You can’t take that flag down. You lefties are told who to vote for, no conviction or consequence. I hope you understand now.

          • Ken Campbell

            Yes, you can fly a Jesus flag internally. That is very metaphoric of you. Most of religion is metaphoric and should stay that way

    • Lark62

      Yes. Fly your flag proudly. Put it on your home and your church and your carr. Wear it on your t-shirt and tattoo it on your ankle. Fly 1000 flags if you like.

      But have enough respect for our nation and our Constitution to keep it off of govt property.

      • Emmanuel

        keep all items out including that evolution garbage, fair?

        • Homer for God

          Of course it is to them. Anything against the Word is more plausible to them. it makes our discipling more important now before judgement comes.
          God Bless

        • Lark62

          The Theory of Evolution by Means of Natural Selection is a scientific theory on par with the Theory of Gravity and the Germ Theory of Disease. Teaching evolution is no more disresectful to religion than teaching that disease is caused microbes with no mention of an angry god.

          • Emmanuel

            OK, so keep your idea out.

          • Lark62

            It’s not “my” idea. It is established scientific theory, and science is taught in schools.

      • Homer for God

        “Fly your flag proudly. Put it on your home and your church and your car. Wear it on your t-shirt and tattoo it on your ankle. Fly 1000 flags if you like.”

        Until atheist start crying that those symbols are offensive to them and justify reasons to ban them as well. It’s only a matter of time before the government will feel compelled to try to silence God’s message and abolish freedom of religion from the first amendment.

        “But have enough respect for our nation and our Constitution to keep it off of govt property”
        Again we don’t care that you guys cry because of a threatening piece of cloth and words are posted in th a place you don’t want it to be.and have it removed by whatever reasoning makes you sleep better at night. Christians already knew this was coming as it was already foretold in the Word. We were told to be prepared for the judgement to come soon after.

        God Bless

        • Lark62

          Sorry to disappoint you. I will defend your right to your religious beliefs. But our shared secular government does not belong just to your flavor of christianity.

          • Homer for God

            Sorry again but God is omnipresent not a flavor of ice cream, but you’ll find that out in the end.
            God Bless

          • Lark62

            Depending on how they are counted, it is estimated that there are between 30,000 and 42,000 christian sects/denominations. Each believes they are the correct one.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          When have atheists ever tried to prevent someone from practicing their religion in the privacy of their home?

          • Homer for God

            I’m sure all the time, but non they want to make public for fear of backlash. Satan is the master of deception. It’ll only be a matter of time before it will be regular news here. (unless of course they cry to have this website removed by then)

            God Bless

          • Ambulance Chaser

            So in other words, you have no proof, just wild supposition?

    • DNelson

      Yeah. It’s amazing how many of those flags I see flying in front of houses and businesses.

      Amazingly few.

    • Ken Campbell

      I see many religious groups flying flags these days. Not in a good way

  • Jayne101

    Not so much on the main article, but on the bit about the Bible for Iraq blurb at the bottom there. Just how twisted up in the head do you have to be to see the current situation and think not “Wow, that really sucks for them, I will send food or water or old clothes or blankets or something that they could actually use to rebuild their lives.” but, “Wow, that sucks, well they worship the wrong god and this moment of weakness is the best time for us to all band together and tell them that if they start believing in OUR god, it will all get better.”

    Not to mention that by sending them bibles, you may very well be handing them a death sentence if the wrong people find out they are getting non Islamic teachings.

    Seriously, how messed up are you people that you would take a tragedy and use the emotional vunerability it has caused to try and peddle your snake oil?

    Do you HONESTLY think that bibles are better for them right now that something they actually need like clothes and food or education?

    • DNelson

      If they believe, God will provide.

      Or so the theory goes.

  • FoJC_Forever

    Atheists are scared of a piece of cloth. Atheists are fools.

    • Lark62

      Atheists respect the Constitution.

      • Lora1972

        No they don’t. They just want to bully everyone else into their way of thinking just like they are accusing everyone else of doing. They are all for freedom of speech if it is THEIR freedom of speech.

        • Lark62

          That is not true. Atheists want the govt to remain neutral on religion.

    • Jayne101

      Scared? How? Why? Of what exactly? By all means provide some details and we can talk about your interesting point of view.

      • Dave_L

        “recently published research from Finland, which finds avowed non-believers become emotionally aroused when daring God to do terrible things.”

        “The results imply that atheists’ attitudes toward God are ambivalent, in that their explicit beliefs conflict with their affective response,” concludes a research team led by University of Helsinki psychologist Marjaana Lindeman. Its study is published in the International Journal for the Psychology of Religion.

        salon(DOT)com/2013/04/27/do_atheists_secretly_believe_in_god_partner/

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          You are bringing your A-game this week, Dave – thanks!

        • Disqusdmnj

          Interesting article, but at least the researchers advised:

          “There are at least four potential explanations for these findings,” Lindeman and her colleagues write. The simplest and most provocative is that “atheists’ explicit beliefs may differ from the implicit reactions that exist outside of conscious awareness.” But other possibilities are equally plausible. Atheists “may have found using the word God stressful because others, possibly their friends and family, do take God seriously,” they note. Alternatively, they may have found the idea of God “absurd or aversive,” leading to the heightened emotional response. Finally, the researchers note, “although atheists did not currently believe in God, they may have been influenced by their own previous beliefs.” They point to research from 2006 that found three-quarters of American atheists were once believers. Perhaps the emotional response measured in this study is an echo of that previous belief. If so, it suggests that even for committed non-believers, it’s difficult to totally erase the idea of God from one’s psyche.

          Doesn’t prove the existence of a deity, though. ; )

          • Dave_L

            I’m not convinced God has erased the knowledge of him from the “atheist’s” thinking. The Bible says they are without excuse. “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:” (Romans 1:20, KJV 1900)

          • Disqusdmnj

            Well, of course the concept of God hasn’t been “erased” from my thinking… everyone around me keeps bringing him up! ; )

          • Dave_L

            God’s word says what it says. And people are judged by the awareness He gives to all, even those in denial.

        • Jim H

          I find it at least a lie by omission that you selectively quoted just a part of the study to imply that atheists believe in God and conveniently left out the other “equally plausible” explanations provided by the researchers and/or the authors of the article. Are you so incredibly afraid of less than 5% of the population that you desperately need to try to disprove they even really exist? I really don’t get that.

          As the article says:

          “But other possibilities are equally plausible. Atheists “may have found using the word God stressful because others, possibly their friends and family, do take God seriously,” they note. Alternatively, they may have found the idea of God “absurd or aversive,” leading to the heightened emotional response.

          Finally, the researchers note, “although atheists did not currently believe in God, they may have been influenced by their own previous beliefs.” They point to research from 2006 that found three-quarters of American atheists were once believers.

          Perhaps the emotional response measured in this study is an echo of that previous belief. If so, it suggests that even for committed non-believers, it’s difficult to totally erase the idea of God from one’s psyche.”

          • Dave_L

            Thanks for posting it. That is why I provided the link with a short excerpt. To make people interested and perhaps show some the error of their ways.

          • Jim H

            I didn’t see your post at the time I did mine, but I’m glad I’m not alone in noticing the misrepresentation of the article/study.

    • Homer for God

      It’s the whole “elephant in the room” They don’t want to see it, therefore it doesn’t exist to them.

      God Bless

    • Jim H

      The flag is gone, the atheists are apparently pretty effective for fools.

      • Ken Campbell

        It was fast and effective relief

    • Ken Campbell

      Flags are nasty bits of cloth

  • Gail Petersen

    I have yet to be able to understand how something that people say “doesn’t exist” can be offended by that something that doesn’t exist. Or that they claim they “don’t believe in”….how can something one doesn’t believe in convict or disturb someone so much. It is obvious to me that God is being removed from our nation a little bit at a time. This should perhaps bother me, but not really. Take down the flags, the banners….whatever our governments feel they need to. This will not stop our belief in God. This will not stop us from spreading the word of God to all we meet. No matter what the world tries to take away, no matter how much the world listens to satan…..I will stand on the word of God, I will speak the word of God…I will take my last breath praising my Lord Christ Jesus. I don’t need symbols to know who I am. I am GOD’S DAUGHTER…..no weapon or man can come against me nor defeat me. So come on satan…..you lose.

    • Jayne101

      Great. Keep your belief. Nobody is trying to stop you from having it. But you don’t have the right to force it on others any more than they have the right to force theirs on you.

      • Homer for God

        Give me the name of the Christian pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to believe so we can lock him or her up for threats.

        No? Again it’s a choice not an obligation.
        Don’t let me tell you. search your own heart.
        God Bless

        • Princess Sheilyia

          Thank you! I’m so tired of that dumb and dim-witted chant!

        • Disqusdmnj

          The police are there to serve and protect *everybody*. What would you think if they flew a Muslim flag instead?

          It’s far better to remain neutral, serve the public, and not show preferential treatment to anyone. Just fly the American flag.

          • Homer for God

            “What would you think if they flew a Muslim flag instead?”
            I would feel the same way. Freedom of religion and expression and for the reason below.

            “it’s far better to remain neutral, serve the public, and not show preferential treatment to anyone”

            When do you see police praying with the people they arrest? Hold prayer meetings while directing traffic? Stop in the middle of a drug bust to kneel to allah when it’s prayer time? Answer…no time. No one up until very recently ever had a problem with symbols. Now all of a sudden there offencive because where it’s placed? Sounds childish to me.
            Fortunately grace has already prepared Christ’s followers for this moment so we can only pray. Judgement will answer the wrong as well as the right. That time is now.
            God Bless

          • Disqusdmnj

            Come on, Homer… seriously? You’d honestly be OK driving past a Muslim flag on the way to work every day, not on private property, but on PUBLIC property that YOUR tax dollars go to cover? A Muslim flag on your local municipal building? Your courthouse? Your library? Your police station?

          • Homer for God

            If it is showing out country is behind the first amendment of freedom of religion and expression then yes. I might not like to see it, but those flags don’t put food in my child’s stomach nor clothes on their back…God does. I can choose to let it affect me and cry and cry until I’m out of tears until someone listens, or I can choose to put my life in God, take life day by day as it comes, and be in ever preparation for Jesus’s coming by staying in prayer and helping my fellow brothers and sisters the best way I can. I choose the second option…how about you?

            God Bless

          • Disqusdmnj

            I see it as tacit endorsement of one religion over another, something which our State has no interest in. Then, I’ll just live my life thankful that I’m here for no reasonable explanation, living in wonder at the vastness of our universe, glad I get to spend 80-90 years with my friends and family, help people out and be nice to them and eat BBQ and ride my motorcycle, then leave most of my estate to charity when I pass and get cremated and sprinkled on a mountain somewhere. Same as you, I’d imagine, but no deities.

            Take care!

          • http://www.evolutionvsgod.com/ Rich

            When atheists get to determine what is done in public, what is taught in school, it is NOT neutral.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Facts are neutral, and that’s all we want taught. When you can provide actual evidence for religious “studies” like creationism, then that can be taught as well. In the meantime, though, let’s educate our kids with science, and leave the woo for home.

          • http://www.evolutionvsgod.com/ Rich

            Think about it, this universe has ONE King, the One that proved that He is the Truth, the Way and the Life. To deny him and his moral laws that we are bound to, is to let people go astray and not realize they have eternal damnation if they don’t turn and trust our King.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Prove it without giving me a Bible verse. Show me what hell looks like, or heaven. Prove to me that there’s a deity in the sky who knows what I do. Prove that even though I lead a good life, that just because I don’t believe in any deity (yours, Roman, Greek, Hindu, etc), that I’ll spend my eternity in some hell… because I don’t love some god.

            Just prove it.

            (BTW, I will accept Florida as proof of hell.)

      • FullMetalCatholic

        Yes, just like you can’t take two duds abusing one anothers digestives, making common citizens pay for the results of their high risk lifestyle, giving them bennys from Uncle Sam, and forcing people to accept their choice as a marriage – it goes both ways mate.

        • Jayne101

          Well you are paying the government, what they do with it after is a little out of your hands. I wouldn’t want my taxpayers money going on services like church, who then expect to have the police or fire department show up and save them, even though they never paid into it. But it happens.

          And nobody is forcing you to accept it. You don’t have to. Only difference is that now you don’t have the right to stop them.

    • Princess Sheilyia

      Amen!!!

    • Faithwalker

      Amen!

    • http://www.evolutionvsgod.com/ Rich

      Simple: Anything Christian, that shows we do have an eternal King, reminds them that they will have to give an account for their life, and be accountable to their actions and sins and why they didn’t seek God who we know exists.

  • Peter Leh

    should it not be taken down?

  • Sherry Ash

    Put it directly next door or across the street on non-city property. I’d let you put it up on my property if that happened here.

    • Lark62

      Exactly. Put this flag on private property. Put 100 there and there will not be one complaint.

      The problem is the location and government endorsement.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      And that would be perfectly legal. No one would send any cease and desist letters, no one would try to stop you. If they did, even the ACLU would defend you.

  • DNelson

    Duh.

  • Janet Miller

    When are people going to start telling these haters to get out of our country that it is a country under G-d so if they decide to stay respect our country, people and our flags.

    • Ken Campbell

      This is not one of the flags recognized by the USA

  • sammy13

    I wonder how this atheist group feels about the American Red Cross?

    • Gene Schunek

      I’m not agnostic or an atheist, but you do know that the Red Cross is a charitable organization, not part of the government. I don’t know any atheist who cares which flag an organization, independent of the government, uses.

  • Ken Campbell

    Keep those Christians where they belong….far far away from reality.

  • Ken Campbell

    I wonder if there would be such an outcry from the Christians if this had been a Roman Catholic flag?

    • Homer for God

      If it was removed, yes we would. Again it’s a symbol and expression of religion
      God Bless

      • Ken Campbell

        It is a symbol of oppression. The last time a religious flag represented government, there were blaspheme trials and burnings. NO rational person wants to see that happen again

        • Homer for God

          I must of missed that history lesson when our government took non-Christian people out and tortured them for not following Christ. I’m sorry you feel oppressed by symbols.
          The truth remains. Satan hates God’s law and will do whatever it takes to hide it from others. Taking away what has always represented the one and only true God is the real oppression. But like I said earlier, you can take God away from government, but you will never take his message or his love or his judgement when it comes.
          God bless

          • Ken Campbell

            You are lucky to live in a country where religious oppression is not acceptable. Many of the newcomers do come from countries where religious oppression is very real.

            There is no such thing as ‘God’s Law’. I know this but I recognize that there are many people who believe in this ‘law’ and think that they are acting with moral validation. It is lucky that we live in a place where the people chanting ‘God’s Law’ are not permitted to impose that law on others

          • Homer for God

            Actually, I’m blessed be a child of God. Yes a child of God. It’s because of God’s Grace and infinite love I am able to write here today. It’s because of God’s Grace I’ve been blessed with a family and a great job. It’s by God’s Grace I’m even alive and enjoying my freedom. I really do not deserve having anything. I should be in prison, homeless or dead. Trust me when most would agree (especially certain “Christians”) with that statement. Because God gave me that Grace and proved to me time and time again of his existence, I am able to share my experience with others.
            I’m sorry you can’t or won’t accept God’s law. Just because you don’t see it or weren’t around when they were passed down, doesn’t mean they weren’t written by God and delivered through his servant Moses.
            But go ahead and humor me. Give me the name or names of the individuals (non biblical or religion related) who came up with the unspoken laws of mortality as well as the years these laws were passed. I would also need the references you have backing the claim up, so I can do the research (preferably nothing internet related).
            Otherwise, we can agree to disagree on this subject.
            I do know I will be facing God on judgement day just like you and everyone else. Will you be ready?
            God bless

          • Ken Campbell

            Morality is a human construct that reflects the social norms. If we pretend that this is some sort of heavenly concept, then we stop taking responsibility for our home. There is no such thing as objective (Biblical) morality as there is no such thing as a god or gods

            Christians are welcome to their beliefs and can sit on their duffs in idle contemplation of their future time with God. However, the rest of us recognize that the world and our future is in our hands and that we must participate in the greater good. Christians may try to pray away sin, while the rest of us build homes and help our neighbors.

            I hope you discover Atheism some day. It will help you.

          • Homer for God

            “I hope you discover Atheism some day. It will help you”

            Been there, done that, went to jail for it. I’m not turning my back on my creator again.

            “Christians may try to pray away sin, while the rest of us build homes and help our neighbors.”

            Again you must not know what a Christian is by that statement. Our church alone has over ten different missions. Each one is designed to carry out the Lord’s work including home and church building.

            “Morality is a human construct that reflects the social norms. If we pretend that this is some sort of heavenly concept, then we stop taking responsibility for our home. There is no such thing as objective (Biblical) morality as there is no such thing as a god or gods”

            Ok I’m only going to respond to the first part because there is no point to try to get you to understand our point.. If you really think each generation defines the morality then you are grossly misunderstood. Abortion (choice or no choice) is ok but killing a fellow man for the way he looks (in other words just as innocent as the baby) is not? We can glorify violence and sex all we want on TV and the movies, but not do that in reality? Do you really think the next generation or the one after that won’t see all that’s happening now and use it as basis for acceptable violence and perverted sex? Public education is a joke today and with most people adopting a “hands off” approach to parenting (let them do what they want without consequence in case you don’t know what that is) it will only be a matter of time that laws will be passed by the next generation that totally contradicts what we were taught as children. There is one word that wraps it up in a bow and that is anarchy. It will happen. It is happening.
            I don’t expect you to believe what I’m saying. I understand you think we are in a new golden age devoid of “the old ways”, but I really implore you to take a true minute and look within your heart. Only those who want to find God and understand what he really wants, will be given the gift of true wisdom. We who have been blessed with this wisdom has been given a chance to prepare for whats to come and we have. Our fight is not to restore the “old ways” but to disciple to those who are left behind in satan’s darkness, in hopes to bring them to God before it’s too late. If you choose not to, that’s ok. My prayers will still include you and I love you just the same.
            God Bless

          • FullMetalCatholic

            OK – so by your standard, it’s OK to perhaps force Church’s to close, round up people that worship Jesus, and execute them. Is that the greater good you would like to see? I hope you discover the Catholic Church – it will save you from making fatal errors.

  • http://www.evolutionvsgod.com/ Rich

    But schools continue to teach theirs lies that our grandmothers are nothing more than mutated apes, as atheists wish.

  • Tastycake

    just fly it on the adjoing property line with permission==like as in right on the line=whats so hard about that

  • http://www.christ421stcentury.com/ PhilDave

    The Bible and the Cross are designed to offend. Light to darkness, conviction of sin and salvation in no other name in Heaven.