Texas Man Says Landowners Will Arrest City Officials if They Try to Remove Jesus Sign

HawkinsHAWKINS, Texas — A Texas man is fighting back against efforts to remove a “Jesus” sign from a plot of land that he asserts is privately, not publicly owned, and is warning that the landowners will arrest anyone who tries to remove the sign.

The situation centers around a sign in Hawkins, Texas that reads, “Jesus welcomes you to Hawkins,” which first came under fire from the Wisconsin-based Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF) this past June. The atheist organization sent a letter to city officials asserting that the sign runs afoul of the U.S. Constitution.

“It is inappropriate and unconstitutional for the City of Hawkins to display the sign … because it conveys both a government preference for religion over nonreligion, and prefers Christianity over other religions,” the letter, written by attorney Sam Grover, read. “The display of religious messages on public property violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, which prohibits public grounds from advancing, supporting or promoting religion.”

FFRF also told the city in the correspondence that leasing the land to a private organization would not cure its concerns.

“Public land cannot legally be gifted to a religious organization so that it can raise or maintain a religious advertisement,” it said. “Moreover, gifting the land would not change the appearance of government endorsement of the religious message. The sign would still appear to be on public property, and given the sign’s history, a reasonable observer would consider the sign to be government speech.”

Mayor Will Rogers rebuffed FFRF’s demands for removal of the sign.

“They (FFRF) scare you into believing there’s a boogie man, and we’re going to get you,” he told Raw Story. “They want God and Jesus out of our life. I mean that’s what the bottom line is.”

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Rogers said that the sign was the idea of private citizens—including himself as he was not an elected official at the time—and was privately paid for by the Chamber of Commerce, although it was approved by city council.

Last month, the city attorney reviewed the situation and concluded that the sign sat on private property belonging to Crowley Funeral Home. However, as independent contractors contrarily determined that the sign is on public property, city council voted this week to remove the sign.

But doubt still remains that the property is public. Mark McDonald, a trustee at Jesus Christ Open Altar Church, told local television station KYTX that he met with a surveyor who agreed with the city attorney that the land is private.

“In no case is the tract owned by the city of Hawkins and no part of the street is owned by the city of Hawkins,” McDonald said.

He told the outlet that his church is in the process of buying the land, and that if city officials attempt to remove the sign, the landowners will have them arrested. McDonald says that the transfer of ownership should be official by October 25th.

In the meantime, the group Oath Keepers has been standing guard to protect the sign since Friday following alleged threats of vandalism.


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  • NWaff

    Why doesn’t the atheist group put up their own sign that says Nobody Welcomes You?

    • Ransom Davidson

      Yeah, an atheistic sign could read something like: The Great Imaginary Nobody (AKA Jesus or God), Welcomes You to Hawkins.

    • http://www.ragingelephantsradio.com/ Doc Greene

      Yeah, If you ain’t a Texan just get the hell out!

      • Eric Youngstrom

        That’s what Mexico said to you all…. Ohhhh didn’t know that did ya…. You stole that land from Mexico

        • kady772

          Pick up a history book some time. That is pure fiction.

          • Eric Youngstrom

            I have and it is truth, ya’ll are thieves and we don’t take kindle to your types around here.

          • kady772

            I think you mean “kindly”. And I bet you don’t even have an inkling as to why I doubt your claim, do you? Spelling and reading. Who needs them, right?

          • Eric Youngstrom

            Thank you grammar nazi, the internet is a better place with the likes of your KIND

        • freedixie

          Texas seceded from Mexico and fought for its independence. You best put down the crack pipe.

          • Eric Youngstrom

            Just like the south did from the north… RIGHT? Texas was in the wrong, Mexico did not give them the OK. Heed your advice and just say no to crack

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Because that would be equally unconstitutional, if, in fact, this turns out to be on government land.

    • wandakate

      I saw a bumper sticker once and it said, WELCOME TO OUR STATE (and the name of the state), NOW GO HOME…In other words we don’t want you here, you are not welcomed. Maybe they could put that one up there. WELCOME TO WISCONSIN, NOW GO HOME.

  • Liz Litts

    What part of privet propetry do these clowns not understand. I would almost say shoot on sight–and only one warning shot.

  • http://www.locomotivebreath1901.blogspot.com/ locomotivebreath1901

    I must ask (again and still) “Why does the ‘we hate religion bigots foundation’ have standing in this matter before a court of law? IE: ‘standing’ means this group or that individual has incurred actual damage, loss or harm; particularly from this situation in Texas when the ‘we hate religion bigots foundation’ is located in Wisconsin.

    “Why does the ‘we hate religion bigots foundation’ have standing in this matter before a court of law?

    • Ambulance Chaser

      What court of law is involved here? They haven’t sued anyone.

      • http://www.locomotivebreath1901.blogspot.com/ locomotivebreath1901

        They haven’t sued anyone – yet. But they have threatened, so what’s your point?

        And I must ask (again and still) “Why does the ‘we hate religion bigots
        foundation’ have standing in this matter before a court of law?

        • Ambulance Chaser

          I don’t know that they do, bit your question is premature. You can raise the standing argument when there’s actually a plaintiff.

          Also, they don’t hate religion. They have never taken any action to stop the private practice of religion anywhere. Only mixing it with government.

  • James

    I see enough atheistic trash on television for some group in Wisconsin to be troubled by a group of people who do not believe they are not descendants of apes and are teaching their children, that they are created in the image of God, and that they are special! This proves point at hand, a man with the mind of Christ vs the atheistic man with the evolutionary mind of an ape! Hey, if the atheistic group want to put up a sign in Wisconsin saying: the atheistic descendants of ape men welcome you to highly intelligent Wisconsin, well, GO FOR IT!

    • Josey

      hehe 🙂

    • Eric Youngstrom

      Ok cuz-n-fuker

    • dennis

      Ok, you win the prize for stupidest post of the day.

      • George Van Apeldoorn

        Dennis, you should deepen your knowledge about the difference between insulting a person because you lost the argument and factually presenting your case. It would do your credibility a lot of good.

  • Dave_L

    There is absolutely nothing in Scripture to endorse this. We are told to preach the Gospel. We are told not take the Lord’s name in vain using it for other than Gospel purposes. And then enjoy armed resistance from the so called “Oath Keepers”. Jesus promotes non-violence and forbids Christians from swearing by an “oath”. This is sacrilegious if anything.

    • bowie1

      You forgot Jesus did overturn the tables in the temple of those who were turning it into a den of thieves as he put it.

      • Josey

        There is such a thing as righteous anger…amen bowie

        • Dave_L

          Jesus is the only righteous. We have no righteousness of our own.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Of course. I knew you would throw out the idea only Jesus could act out in anger.

            Tell you what: If a muslim says he wants to saw off the head of a Christian, since you seem to be such a fan of total submission in the face of evil, why don’t you offer yourself first?

          • Dave_L

            What does Jesus tell us to do? Any Scripture references for your position???

        • Dave_L

          References???

          • http://sdraeneske.weebly.com Raeneske

            Ephesians 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

            Christians can be angry for righteous reasons. Say for example, we witness the innocent being oppressed and trampled upon. What, are we then unallowed to be angry for these things? Yet, as it is written, be ye angry, but sin not. This isn’t to say go beat up someone who beats on children. No, save the child, and report this wicked doer to the authorities, under whom we are submissive to. And I ask, when you say that violence is not allowed on any circumstances, does this mean a Christian cop should not chase a man and tackle him to the ground and arrest him?

            In terms of killing, I will not say let’s go out and murder a man. Even if one is a cop with a lethal weapon. Use your self and your tools wisely.

          • Dave_L

            Paul is obviously quoting Psalms 4:4. We should interpret his version of it in line with the original.

            “Stand in awe, and sin not: Commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.” (Psalm 4:4)

            But especially notice we should get rid of anger before the day ends.

            “Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:” (Ephesians 4:26)

        • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

          You are right. There is a righteous anger.

      • Dave_L

        So? How does this relate to the above actions? Please break it down.

        • bowie1

          The keeping of oaths was an advice from Jesus, since it may be done in haste, which may result in breaking that oath i.e. promise.

          • Dave_L

            “Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.” (Matthew 5:36)

            When we swear by an oath, we usurp God’s place as the controller of all things, as if we are in that position. = Major sin.

          • bowie1

            You would have a hard time testifying in court then, since you are asked to promise that the testimony you give is the truth, even if the phrase “so help me God” is not used.

          • Dave_L

            I believe many Christians have refused to swear by an oath in court, and rightly so. When we swear by an oath we are usurping God’s authority, as if we can deliver anything, even the truth, of our own accord.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            You are mistaken.

            Hebrews 7:20-22 – “And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him
            that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.”

            Deuteronomy 6:10 and 10″20 state that we should swear by His name. Exodus 22:11 speaks of an oath between neighbors.

            Mathew 23:22 – “And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.”

            We are told not to take false oaths, but not to never take any oath at all.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Nice job, LGE!

          • Dave_L

            You are citing Old Testament references. We are under the New, and Jesus along with James specifically tell us not to swear by an oath.

            “But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.” (Matthew 5:34–37)

            “But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.” (James 5:12)

            Especially, do not swear to become unequally yoked together with unbelievers.

            “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?” (2 Corinthians 6:14–15)

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Matthew is in the Old Testament in your Bible?? Do tell…..Best rethink your statement.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            (stifling giggles :-))

    • Matthew T. Mason

      Dave, shut your mouth. If you think we should sit idly by and allow people to silence Christians and Christianity, solely and specifically, you are sadly mistaken. As bowie1 said, Jesus was not exactly a pacifist.

      We will not simply stand in line and march our way to the showers. We will defend ourselves, we will defend the Name of Jesus Christ, by any means necessary.

      • Dave_L

        Please provide Scripture for your position. Until you do it is only your word against the Bible.

        • Matthew T. Mason

          Matthew 5:39 speaks of personal vengeance. Not pacifism in the face of evil. Sorry, Charlie.

          • Dave_L

            “Blessed are the peacemakers (pacifists): for they shall be called the children of God.” (Matthew 5:9)

          • Matthew T. Mason

            “Blessed are the peacemakers (pacifists)

            Where does it say “peacemakers” are pacifists? Webster’s 1828 Dictionary does not say that.

            Your second point is quite simply bizarre. Are you suggesting the Nazis slaughtered the Jews out of vengeance? Dude, I have taken courses on the rise and fall of the Nazis and the Holocaust, and I can safely say, with absolute confidence, you have no idea what you are talking about.

            And the “Dual Morality” BS is just that. It makes no sense. It is illogical.

            As of right now, you stand 0-3 in this debate. Do you want to keep going and demonstrate even more of your stupidity in a public forum?

          • Dave_L

            First, you should not define Greek Bible words of the first century (Peacemaker) with current English dictionaries.

            Also, how is a Pacifist not a Peacemaker, or visa versa?

            What else is there other than “personal vengeance” if a “Person” is employing it?

            The Nazi Christians believed they could be pacifists in their personal lives and yet kill Jews for Hitler as “good citizens”. Thus Dual Morality – they believed in a way similar to your claim of “Personal Vengeance”. I know it is crazy but that’s the way it works for Christian Magistrates and Military.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            First, I know what the root word of “peacemaker” is. It still does not mean pacifism.

            Second, whatever the Nazi Christians did is not even relevant to this discussion. The Nazis did not want the Jews dead due to some kind of vengeance. It was due to hate, and that hate was used as an excuse for scapegoating the Jews for a lot of things, up to and including the financial difficulties Germany faced after WWI.

            Therefore this “dual morality” you speak of has nothing to do with anything as far as this discussion is concerned. It was an incredibly stupid idea to challenge someone who knows more about that period of world history than you obviously do. But then again, as before, who upvotes their own comments?

            You are a full-time moron. And only morons won’t take the hint and let this drop. 0-4 now. Goodbye.

          • Dave_L

            >”I know what the root word of “peacemaker” is. It still does not mean pacifism.”
            >>Please share it with references.

            Hitler wanted the Jews dead. It was not vengeance for the Lutherans, but Duty to the State as “good Patriotic Christians”. Luther taught “Dual Morality”.

            You seem to have dropped off to a level of name calling and raw emotion. Anger is sin and also a health hazard…

    • kady772

      Where specifically does Jesus promote non violence? Perhaps you ought to actually read the Bible. God is a God of love, yes, but He is also a Just God and a God of Judgement. The watered-down ‘touchy feely’ version of Christianity benefits no one.

      • Dave_L

        Jesus forbids Christians from using force in the Sermon on the Mount. There are no examples in the New Testament where Christians ever violate his principles except in the case where a disciple cut off the ear of one involved in Jesus’ crucifixion. Jesus healed the amputated ear and rebuked the disciple for using the sword in this manner.

        • kady772

          Yes, I can cherry pick the Bible too. You’re forgetting the verses where Jesus says to stand against evil and to be salt and light. We are never commanded to ‘turn the other cheek’ to allow evil to take over or to silence our voice.

          Have you bothered to think about the purpose of those passages you quoted? They are given so that we might be good witnesses and testimonies. So that when someone wrongs you, you are able to show the love of Christ and forgive. This is not the same as being a door mat for any and all conflict that might arise.
          Jesus never forbade violence or use of force. In fact, there were several times in the Old Testament that God’s people were commanded to use force and violence to bring the judgement of God on wicked nations. Where they were commanded to kill every single person and every single animal.
          Jesus himself overturned the money changers tables. Do you believe this was a lapse in judgement? A time when Jesus lost control?
          No. He was setting an example – that sometimes you have to use force in order to drive out evil. Sometimes, when the cause is right, it is necessary.
          And how about the verse that says “Be ye angry, and sin not:” (Eph 4:26)?
          Anger is not a sin. If force and violence were sins, then I suppose God is guilty of sinning. Which, I hope you realize is a major problem. Have you bothered to think about this doctrinally at all?
          Jesus was not a hippy.
          He came because of love, yes. He did not take the world by force 2000 years ago because that was not his purpose then. Which is why he rebuked Peter for cutting off the soldier’s ear – because it wasn’t the time. Because Jesus had a purpose to fulfill that didn’t include warfare. Not then. But it’s coming. The next time he comes to earth, it will be in battle. Which again, discounts the idea that force and violence are sins. Don’t you think?

          • Dave_L

            We are not under the Old Testament. There is not one New Testament Scripture or example advocating anything but non resistance of evil by Christians according to the Sermon on the Mount. If there is, present it.

          • kady772

            We are not under Old Testament LAW. We are still very much subject to Old Testament teaching. Two very different ideas.
            As I said, I can cherry pick the Bible too. That’s exactly what you’re doing by disregarding even a word of it. “ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” 2 Tim. 3:16
            By suggesting that the principles and teachings of the OT are no longer applicable, you’re essentially saying that God made a mistake and didn’t plan ahead. Or that he just lied.
            Also, are you forgetting that the ten commandments were given in the Old Testament? Or do you just believe the Old Testament is credible when it suits your purpose?

            The verses you gave do not forbid violence or force or warfare. They only teach that we are to be in control of our emotions. That as Christians, we are to be still at certain times. That we are not to be angry people. That does not mean we cannot be angry ever or that we are to be door mats for the world.

            God hates sin. We are to hate sin. God is angry at sin. We are to be angry at sin. And God commands us to stand against sin. To be salt and light. To put on the whole armor of God. You don’t need armor unless you’re offering some sort of resistance.

            In Eph. 4:26, “anger” and “wrath” are two different things. God says
            “let not the sun go down upon your wrath”, indicating that it is or can become sin. In other words, get it right, now – don’t be an angry person. But the previous statement says “be ye angry”, indicating that anger is not a sin. Or else the Bible would not condone it.

            As I said before, we are to be angry at sin. By your theology, we ought to cease to be angry about abortion at sundown.

            Also as I stated before, God displays anger. The phrase “the anger of the Lord” can be found many times in the Bible. And since God cannot sin, anger cannot be a sin.
            In Matt 5:22, the Bible makes the distinction that being angry “without a cause” is a sin.

            “There is not a single New Testament Scripture or example advocating Christians offering resistance to evil using force”

            Have you ever actually read the Bible? Seriously, this statement is ridiculous. Also, you cannot both disregard the Old Testament and be a Christian. Or even worse, you cannot pick and choose which verses you like and don’t like, and also be a Christian.

            Did God not mean it? Not know what he was doing? Not know the future? Lie?
            Please. God gave us the whole Bible for good reason.

            Ephesians 6:10-20
            Ecclesiastes 3 specifically verse 8 “A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.”
            Psalm 144:1 “Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:”
            James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”
            Leviticus 26:7 “And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.”
            Luke 10:19 “Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.”
            Luke 9:1 “Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.”
            Mark 6:7 “And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;”
            Mark 6:13 “And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.”
            Matthew 10:1 “And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.”
            Matthew 10:6 “Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.”
            Isaiah 54:17 “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.”
            Psalm 44:5-8 Through thee will we push down our enemies: through thy name will we tread them under that rise up against us.For I will not trust in my bow, neither shall my sword save me. But thou hast saved us from our enemies, and hast put them to shame that hated us. In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name for ever. Selah.
            Daniel 11:32 “And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.”
            Acts 1:8 “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
            1 Thessalonians 1:5 “For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.”
            1 Corinthians 4:20 “For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.”
            Acts 4:33 “And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.”
            Matthew 5:13 ” Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt
            have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth
            good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.”
            Revelation 3:15-16 “I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.”

            I could literally go on and on. It sure doesn’t sound like God wants us to be passive concerning evil or witnessing. As I said before, perhaps you ought to actually read the Bible.

            And lets not forget Jesus overturning the money changers table – in the New Testament, by the way. Please explain how it is a sin for us to use force when Jesus used force? Isn’t He our ultimate example?
            Or how about Samson? He prayed for God to help him destroy the Philistines and God obliged. (Judges 16:28-30).
            Was God sinning? Assisting Samson to sin?
            If something was sin (or not) in the Old Testament, it is still sin (or not) today. To suggest otherwise is to call God a liar and a hypocrite.
            Hebrews 13:8 “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”

            We are not to be angry people, we are not to pick fights everywhere we go, and we are not to take revenge, but God very clearly wants us to stand against evil when necessary and to witness whenever possible. We are in a spiritual battle. It’s a dangerous place to be when you forget that.

          • Dave_L

            We are not under the Old Testament Theocracy. We are under the New Testament. Please post any New Testament Scripture you believe to be advocating Christian violence so we can discuss it.

          • kady772

            I posted plenty of scripture – Old and New Testament. You’re apparently too ignorant and lazy to even read that much of the Bible.
            Also, I never said the Bible advocated “Christian violence”. I said the Bible does not forbid violence or force when necessary. It certainly does not promote pacifism as you seem to believe.

            As you are too full of yourself and your false doctrine to even read my post, let alone address my questions and comments, I see no point to attempt to have a discussion with you.

          • Dave_L

            You must interpret the Old Testament using the New. The Sermon on the Mount trumps all violence and revenge in the Christian life.

          • kady772

            Wrong. Please pick a different religion to make a mess of. There are enough pseudo Christians out there already.

          • Dave_L

            So Jesus and the writers of the New Testament were wrong interpreting the Old By the New? Think of all the times Matthew wrote “that it might be fulfilled” while quoting Old Testament predictions about Jesus.Also Peter in Acts speaking of the fulfillment of Joel 2:28 and all of Paul’s use of the Old Testament showing what it meant in light of the New.

          • kady772

            No, your entire statement was wrong – specifically the idea that one verse (misused) somehow negates the entire doctrine of the Bible otherwise. Jesus NEVER discounts one word of the Old Testament. That is your idea. Nothing more.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Sorry, but you cannot toss out half of the Word of God, and get a clear picture. That “turn the other cheek” thing is about an insult, not a physical assault. We are not to seek vengeance, but we can most certainly protect and defend, with force, if need be.

            If someone threatens my kids, it isn’t my anger that should concern them.

          • Dave_L

            = lack of faith and disobedience.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            That would be you.

          • Dave_L

            “Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.” (Romans 14:4)

            PS. I would rather trust Christ’s love than a weapon wielded in hate….any day.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            A weapon wielded in defense is not welded in hate. Stop using the Bible to defend cowardice

          • Dave_L

            If Jesus tells us not to use violence or force against evil, it is impossible to have faith while doing it. Besides it makes violence an idol you trust in when you should be trusting in God. Think of the faith of the martyrs, accepting death instead of cowering into violence.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Jesus doesn’t tell us that. We are not to act n revenge, but we are not told that we cannot defend, or protect, or even fight in war. No, acting to defend against a threat isn’t making an idol of anything.

            More and more, I suspect you want Christians to believe they cannot protect themselves. Sorry, but no one is buying.

          • Dave_L

            Jesus forbids violence and participation in war for the Christian. The New Testament forbids participation in government (being unequally yoked together with unbelievers) and swearing allegiance to them under oath.

            So in at least two ways, Christians should never take part in Government or its wars.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            No, He doesn’t. Your claims have been dis-proven.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            For some reason it seems as though *Dave_L* wants to silence Christians. It seems as though he is trying to use the Bible against Christians. Although he claims to be one.I find him to be strange.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Yes, he has repeatedly stated, we are to do nothing in the face of evil. It makes me wonder how he would react if he saw someone sexually abusing a child.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            He would turn and look the other way.And walk away.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            He makes the claim, but he has no idea of the reality! I posted some corrections for him, and it should be interesting to see the dodging. He already started by claiming the OT isn’t relevant, and ignoring a verse from Matthew that I also posted

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            He is trying to deceive people. I see that some Atheist up vote him from time to time. If he was a true Christian Atheist would not be so happy with him.Something is not right about him.He seems to have no respect for the OT.Only parts of the NT.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            You now, I hadn’t thought about that. Valid point! I had hoped he was simply confused, but I think, now, considering who supports him, that he’s a fake Christian, maybe attending some “feel good” type of church, and knowing nothing of who God really is, and what the Bible really teaches.

            “Something not right” is how I feel about him, too. I want to give the benefit of the doubt, but I think it would be misplaced here! Good to see that I am not he only one able to discern anything!

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            He reminds me of someone a while back.I can’t remember his name. He would only talk about the parts about love. Rejecting all other parts of the Bible. Maybe he will receive the truth before he takes his last breath.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            You know, now that you mention it, he does seem familiar. Hmmmm…..

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            I just wish I could remember who.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            You and me, both!

          • Dave_L

            They assumed as much about Jesus too…

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Well, do tell, what would you do? What if violence was the only way to protect the child?

          • Dave_L

            Hypothetical situations often do not include God’s providence and control over all situations. What if violence were the only option to those lacking faith, but Christian faith instead disarmed the situation apart from violence? Where is your faith? In God or violence????

          • LadyGreenEyes

            So, you refuse to even answer. I hope,sincerely, that you don’t have kids. Do you call those of the OT whom God told to act faithless? Oh, that’s right, you don’t use the OT at all.

          • Dave_L

            Here is a quote from Tolstoy about hypothetical situations the violent often use against Christians; It speaks for me;

            “Certain Things Christians Cannot Do: There are actions which are morally impossible, just as others are physically impossible. As a man cannot lift a mountain, and as a kindly man cannot kill an infant, so a man living the Christian life cannot take part in deeds of violence. Of what value then to him are arguments about the imaginary advantages of doing what is morally impossible for him to do?”

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Sorry but the words of Tolstoy do not trump the Word of God. More than one person has given you plenty of references from the Bible to refute your claims, and you continue to ignore them. Perhaps you are simply confused.

            Or…..you could be trying to convince Christians to stand undefended when they are attacked, because you actually dislike Christians, and prefer no resistance.

          • Dave_L

            Hypothetical situations always exclude God. I could just as easily construct one showing faith and deliverance as an alternative to violence. There are many testimonies from those God delivered in situations similar to what you imagine. Remember, He will never allow above what you are able and will always provide a way out.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Why is that, exactly? Because you claim it’s so? That isn’t even logical. I know quite well ho God can protect, and I also know there re times His protection is in the form of us being capable of defense.

            That last bit is about temptation, not about threats! You really are clueless.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            You are trying to take away parts of the Bible. You can not do that.God gave us the whole Bible for a reason. My prayer for you is that you will receive the truth of God through the Whole Bible not just a verse.
            Shalom “Dave_L” May the Holy Spirit open your eyes,ears,understanding and your heart. So you can see,hear,understand and receive the truth. In Yeshua “Jesus the Christ I pray.

          • Dave_L

            If you love Jesus please study the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew Chapters 5 through 7). Notice it concludes with; “And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:” (Matthew 7:28)

            Matthew calls the Sermon on the Mount the “Doctrine of Christ”.

            John says;

            “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” (2 John 9–11)

            Many “Christians” reject Jesus’ teachings about non-resistance of evil, turning the other cheek, unconditional love of enemies. John says we are not to let them into our house or wish them a good day, partaking of their sins. Please pray about this.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            I will add you to the ones I stand in the Gap for. I believe you need to be delivered and saved.
            Shalom Dave_L. May God open your eyes. << <

          • Dave_L

            Jesus saved me many years ago and has provided for me according to his promise in the Sermon on the Mount ever since. I have some fascinating experiences as the result of walking by faith according to his plan.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            The Word says in the time is coming many will depart from the truth. You said to someone you read books and you learned from them. That is one way to be mislead from the truth. It is the Bible we must trust not other books. One book Old and New Test. The rest of the Bible is just as important as the Sermon on the Mount. That one piece is not what will save you. It is the Blood of Yeshua that saves.

          • Dave_L

            Yes, but God placed teachers in the Church. And Jesus says the Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth.

            If you go to Church and hear a sermon, that is a teacher you are listening to. If you cannot be there, but someone writes it down for you to read, you are reading a short book on the subject.

            What I find fascinating, I can read sermons all the way back to the first century. I can also read how one preacher argued against another until a final conclusion came about. The final conclusion is a Doctrine. It doesn’t necessarily make it a true doctrine, but many times it is, as with the Trinity, Deity of Christ, Total Depravity of man, and so on.

            If you take the Ten Commandments and do the exact opposite of what they forbid, you have the Sermon on the Mount. That is, instead of stealing – give. Instead of murder – promote peace and life. And so on…

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Your Replacement Theology show you have departed from the truth.And are trying to lead others from the Truth. May God help you.
            Shalom <

          • Dave_L

            The Dispensationalists invented Replacement Theology. It is a false doctrine. The Church existed as the “Congregation of the Lord” throughout the Old Testament just as it does now, Only God did away with the unbelievers and the State Church and kept the believers. Paul, and all of the Apostles were Israel and God grafted in the gentiles.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            May God open your eyes. We Christians do not Buy your lies nor receive your deception.
            Shalom <

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            “Dave_L” go to another site. Leave the Christians here alone. They are my Brothers and Sisters in Christ. I will not lose them to your lies.They belong to God through the Blood of Christ. Until you come to the truth. GO. LEAVE. Remember the rest of that verse. The part where if we are not careful God will remove our branch from the tree and re grafted them back on to that branch. As the are the true branch from that tree we have been grafted too. Do not ever give only part of that verse with out the rest. God in not done with the true Israel. The time will come that Israel will receive her Messiah. The church is the Bride of Christ. The Jews still belong to God the Father. Do not think you have replaced them with your self.
            Shalom <

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            I spent a lot of time in Prayer for you at work yesterday. I asked the Lord many questions concerning you. The Lord has given me peace that all I can do for you is to Stand in the Gap for you and fight for your soul in Prayer and Fasting. The choice to receive the truth is yours to make. God will not force His truth on you.God is able to send people into your life who can lead on the right path even though you have freedom to reject.All i can and will do is fight for your soul in Prayer. The Lord has shown me some things about you that has helped me to understand you a little better.And I know what to Pray for. When I stand in the Gap for others it is for life.
            Shalom <

          • Dave_L

            Thank you, I can always use more prayer. But please understand I am seeking to direct Christians into shunning violence and politics, and following Jesus’ example spelled out very precisely in the Sermon on the Mount. So while I appreciate your prayers, I hope you will meditate in the Sermon and see how it plays out in the rest of the New Testament, especially in the lives of the early Christians and Apostles.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            You are a deceiver! Christ can set you free. But it is your Free will choice.
            Shalom <

          • Dave_L

            You cannot judge my motives without sinning.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            You already Judged me e few times. You are becoming what you accuse us of being. There are times we are to Judge. This way we do not fall for lies like you are trying deceive others with. May God deliver you from the lies you are spreading.
            Shalom <

          • Dave_L

            If I miss-judged you I apologize. I know we cannot judge others having God as the standard because we all become guilty then. Many try to use themselves as the standard to avoid this but only reflect their own hearts as they analyze ours.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            In the name of Yeshua Jesus the Christ. Before you accuse “Christians” of Judging look into your own heart and the Words you say to “Christians.(((((((((((((((YOU))))))))))))))))) go around telling “Christians they are not Christian if they do not follow what (((((((((((((((((((((YOU)))))))))))))))))) say. Are you some kind of a false god???????????? Do you as a false god , False Teacher see into the heart as the true God dose????????????????? There are sites where many are teaching false teachings like you are doing. Maybe you need to go on those sites. They will receive you and your false teachings. The true Christians here are Protected by the Blood of the Lamb of God.The Word of God says many will leave the truth and follow after lies. They will deceive many. Some say you can not lose Salvation. If God says through His word some will in the end times leave the truth . That means these people once had the truth. But rejected it for lies. We will not follow you or your teachings. Go somewhere else. Until you come to the truth. Than you can come back. I will continue to Stand in the Gap for you Fast and Pray for you. Other than that……………………………
            Shalom <

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            P.S. ((((((((((((((((((IF)))))))))))))))))))) you love God Study the whole Bible. If you love Jesus you will love the Father. If you love Jesus you will seek the truth in the Whole Bible.
            Shalom <

          • Dave_L

            I study the Bible and related several hours every day, and have a sizable Bible library.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            You read books other than the Bible have misled you. I have studied the Bible Old Test and New Test. Both must be studied.

          • Dave_L

            I just finished another pass through the Old Testament yesterday and began the New today, in a yearly reading cycle. I believe Jesus is the same God of the Old Testament incarnate, but his plan for us today is different since he abolished the Church/State at Calvary.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Now that I know what you are. A deceiver who will do his best to spread Replacement Theology. To try to cause people to fall away from the truth. I know more of what to pray for concerning you. May God put a shield of Protection around every Christian you try to deceive. May God deliver you and may God save your soul.
            Shalom<

          • Dave_L

            Replacement Theology is less than 200 years old. Shouldn’t that mean something? I hold to the historic orthodox position, Dispensationalism did not exist until the Pentecostal Irvingite sect invented it in the 1800s.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            You said the followers of Jesus are Israel. Wrong. We have been grafted to their tree yes. We have not replaces Israel with ourselves. Israel is Israel. Israel is the Land given to the Hebrews.
            Shalom <

          • Dave_L

            I posted this brief Church History to refute the claim that the Catholics began the church. But it shows my side of our discussion with a few Scriptures.

            “Then Moses and Aaron fell on their faces before all the assembly of the congregation (= Church) of the children of Israel.” (Numbers 14:5)

            “This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:” (Acts 7:38, KJV 1900)

            Jewish and Gentile Christians belong to the same church today. God removed the unbelieving Jews at the time of Christ and began replacing them with believing Gentiles at Cornelius’ house Acts 10:44.

            Here are some verses that show the Catholics were not the first church called Christian.

            “…. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.” (Acts 11:26)

            “Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.” (Acts 2:47)

            “Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.” (Acts 13:1)

            So, the Church began in Old Testament, became the Israeli State/Church. The State/Church ended at the time of Christ continuing as spiritual Israel a.k.a. the Church, now global made up of Born Again Jews and Gentiles.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            If you love Yeshua “Jesus” seek His truth while you have breath and the doors are open. If you wait too long the door will close. Once you die you can’t go back. Search for truth now.May the Holy Spirit help you.
            Shalom <

          • Dave_L

            So you are rejecting the Sermon on the Mount as the Christian ethic?

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            You just Judged me through a lie. (((((((((((((((YOU))))))))))))))))) have just done what you accuse other of doing.
            You do not know what I believe. We do know some of what you reject because you have pretty much said so.
            #1 I believe in the Whole (((((((((((((((Bible)))))))))))))))))) ! Do NOT do that again . I will NOT play your games!! Got it??
            Other than Standing in the Gap for you. I will nor play your games of deception. I will also Pray that the Lord will protect true Christians from ((((((((YOU))))))))))).
            Shalom < May Yeshua Deliver you and save your soul.

          • Dave_L

            Sorry but the Sermon forms the basis for all New Testament Christian ethics and lights our path.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            You are a deceiver.May God deliver you and save your soul.
            Shalom <

          • Dave_L

            You need to study to show yourself a work(woman) approved.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            So you have become a false god and say that I reject something I never said that I rejected?????????????????????
            Or are you trying to judge me by saying I am rejecting something I never said I rejected?
            I receive the (((((((((((((Whole)))))))))))))))))))))) . Not just one or two parts.
            Do not accuse me of something I have not said. Do NOT put words into my mouth.
            I tell you now that I believe in the WHOLE Bible! I will not play your games. I will stand in the Gap for you fast and Pray for you. But I will not play your games.

          • Dave_L

            Forgive me if I’m wrong. But please answer this. Does Jesus expect Christians to follow his teachings in the Sermon on the Mount? If so, where does He advocate violence as a means of dealing with evil?

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Because I love God I already forgave you. But I will not keep silent. You also are trying to get Christians to be okay with other peoples sins. Mostly Homosexual. Telling us Christians that we must let Gays Adopted Children. Lord Help you. Only because I do care for your soul and will do as God will have me do. No matter what I will stay in the Gap for you and continue to fight for you through Prayer and fasting. May God Save you in Yeshua.
            Shalom <

          • Dave_L

            I believe Gay adoption is better than murder of infants. Don’t you?

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            If you approve of sin you are guilty of that sin. You can not cover one sin with another sin.You would put babies into homes that teach them that Homosexuality is not a sin. Causing these Children to live in this sin. I Maybe you are Gay. And want to Adopted children with your boy friend/future husband .You are so evil . I will plead with God to deliver you and to save you. With man it is impossible. But with God all things are Possible.
            Shalom <

          • Dave_L

            I believe homosexuality is sin, but abortion is a greater sin. SSM = more families who cannot produce children of their own = more adoptions = less abortion. How many Christians come from horrible upbringings?

          • Eric Youngstrom

            Your god is weak and sad…… Now Odin there was a god to respect!

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            You can tell Him that on the day you face Him.He is not a (((((LOW LIFE))))) like you! That is really 🙁 SAD:( You are heartless, unkind, you lack Humanity, your soul is dark and so very cold.I pity the ground you walk on.
            Mr. cold heart, May God open your eyes before you take your last breath Mr. Low Life.

          • Eric Youngstrom

            I rebuke your god. Your god was nailed to a cross, Thor has a hammer… Nuff said.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Wow It’s little boy *Eric Youngstrom*That is your choice little boy. And little boy you can try to rebuke Him when you see Him face to face. You can tell God how muck you loved Thor’s baby hammer. All in all it is I who Rebukes you i the Name Yeshua the Son of the living God. With something like you Enough is never enough said I could go on and on. You must have been so lonely last night. Aww how sad. Did find others???????? Poor little lonely boy…………………..
            Have fun playing with his hammer.But don’t hit your fingers. Hope you find some playmates.
            Shalom < 🙂

          • Eric Youngstrom

            Wow It’s little brained *lady*That is your choice little brain. And little brain I DID rebuke Her and will never see Her face to face. I won’t tell god how “muck” you loved Thor’s hammer.

            You can rebuke me all you like but unlike your made up skydaddy I am real, not a boy but you keep thinking (ha!) what you will. You are obviously to far gone to help shake the shackles of religion. Have fun being an “adult” playing make believe, you may call me a child all you want at least I am here in reality koo koo bird.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Poor little baby boy …………. Awww got to feel sorry for you!
            Shalom <

          • kady772

            I honestly can’t tell. There are many people like that. They don’t know
            more than what they heard some uneducated critic say and spend their
            time trying to discredit the Bible and real Christians. Unfortunately
            there are also alot of so-called Christians. They’re well meaning, but
            don’t have a clue about actual Bible doctrine and instead ‘wing it’,
            trying to spread what they believe to be truth. Generally they cling to a
            select verse or two, ignoring the rest of the Bible.

            Fortunately if you know what the Bible teaches, it’s pretty easy to discount their arguments.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            I Love all of the Bible. Through Old and the New we can learn so much. I pray that Dave_L will come to the truth.

        • LadyGreenEyes

          James 4:7 – “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”

          Ecclesiastes 3:8 – “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”

          Psalm 144:1 – “Blessed be the Lord my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:”

          Exodus 22:2 – “If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.”

          Luke 22:36 – “Then said he unto them,
          But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip:
          and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”

          Genesis 14:13-16 – “And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram. And
          when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan. And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus. And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.”

          We are allowed to defend ourselves.

          • Dave_L

            You are rejecting Jesus’ teaching in the Sermon on the Mount. You cannot have faith in God to protect you and use violence to defend yourself after he clearly tells you not to.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Go back and reread the verses. That isn’t what God says.

          • Joseph O Morrow

            Folks who have never lived according to anything in the Sermon on the Mount always act as if a human being has more-than-two cheeks, on our faces that is!

            Someone slaps me on one cheek = OK. Then he slaps me also on my other cheek! Whoops, no more cheeks! Jesus leaves it open-ended at that point.

            We are never commanded NEVER to get angry, but to be SLOW to anger. Then, once we have finally risen in anger, and expressed it in the most overall-constructive way possible, then that anger MUST be gone before the sun goes down. The Scriptures only get complicated and seemingly unrealistic when they are never obeyed or practiced. Then a person is easily-subject to the idolatry of theology which then offers itself as the bringer-of-glad-false-excuses to justify himself in his wrongs and weaknesses!

          • kady772

            Defense and retaliation are two very different things. Quit misusing the Bible for your warped theology. You aren’t convincing anyone of anything except that you know nothing about the Bible.

          • Dave_L

            This is something I answered another challenger with, but hopefully you will give it your time.

            If you love Jesus please study the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew Chapters 5 through 7). Notice it concludes with; “And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:” (Matthew 7:28)

            Matthew calls the Sermon on the Mount the “Doctrine of Christ”.

            John says;

            “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” (2 John 9–11)

            Many “Christians” reject Jesus’ teachings about non-resistance of evil, turning the other cheek, unconditional love of enemies. John says we are not to let them into our house or wish them a good day, partaking of their sins. Please pray about this.

          • kady772

            ” hopefully you will give it your time.”

            I find this absolutely hilarious in light of the fact that you have ignored virtually all of my comments and questions.
            You are creating your own doctrine based on exactly one Bible verse that you are misusing.
            Finding another verse that talks about “the doctrine of Christ” does not support your ideas. The doctrine of Christ is the entirety of his teachings while on the earth. Including overturning the money changer’s tables. Which you refuse to address along with everything else.

            I have studied the Sermon on the Mount. In fact I have studied the entire Bible for virtually my entire life. Matthew 5 does not teach non-violence. It teaches non-retaliation for the purpose of being a good testimony. This has nothing to do with self-defense, resisting evil, or warfare. Every single verse I posted (that, again, you ignored) contradict those ideas.
            Again I say, if your view had any legitimacy, there would be SEVERAL verses and passages specifically supporting it. Old and New Testament. Why do you suppose God gave us the Bible and not merely the one verse you are clinging to?
            But of course I have stated most of that several times already, and you have ignored each and every one of them. Sadly, I expect no better from you here.

            As I said, you aren’t convincing anyone of anything except for the fact that you don’t have a clue about the Bible and it’s doctrine.

            And I must ask, if you believe that the Bible teaches to only ever “turn the other cheek” and offer no resistance whatsoever, what are you even doing here? I mean, other than being a massive hypocrite.

          • Dave_L

            You cannot call yourself a Christian in the honest sense of the term and reject the Sermon on the Mount. It is the Doctrine of Christ apart from which John warns not to admit any to our house or wish to those a good day, lest we partake of your (their) sin.

          • kady772

            I am not interested in your definition of Christianity. I’m interested in God’s. As I pointed out several times, you are misusing Matthew 5 for your own doctrine that contrary to what the Bible actually says. No comment on that, eh?
            I don’t reject the sermon on the mount. Rather I believe it in context. You however seem to reject the entire rest of the Bible.
            If you expect any further responses to your questions, answer mine first.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Nicely done! You really nailed it on that last one!

          • kady772

            Thanks, but it will probably go ignored like everything else. This guy isn’t interested in truth and probably can’t see his own hypocrisy. Fake Christians, well-meaning or otherwise, are Satan’s best foot soldiers. Unfortunately for them….Judgement Day isn’t that far off.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Probably. All he does is repeat himself, and refuse to address any points anyone makes.

      • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

        Amen.

  • CarnactheMagnificent

    Find a guy named Hay Zus give him a blue vest and have him wave at folks commin’ into town!!!

  • bowie1

    FFRF hate group tries to find all kinds of loopholes to have any vestige removed from the public eye even it is in a private setting. Anti-theists cannot tolerate any kind of belief of God in others and do all they can to remove it.

    • Josey

      Which if they don’t believe in God why are they so afraid of scriptures or any references about Him, makes no sense that they hate someone so much that they claim they don’t believe in, they all must be nuts!

      • Ambulance Chaser

        We believe in signs, and the Constitution. This sign is clearly there, and clearly violates the Constitution.

        • wandakate

          NOT IF IT’S ON PRIVATE LAND. IF I HAVE LAND I WILL PUT WHAT I WANT ON MY LAND. MANY PEOPLE HAVE ERECTED 3 CROSSES ON THEIR OWN LAND AND THEY ARE STILL THERE. I travel all over and I have seen them and each time I pass that place, those 3 crosses are still there represented JESUS death and the two thieves beside of HIM on the day they all died. JESUS was resurrected, the two thieves are still in their graves. They are all on private land, so relax, there is nothing they can do.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I believe it’s not yet a settled matter that the land is private. If it turns out to be private, the FFRF will back down, and I’ll support them doing so.

            If the land turns out to be public, will you support the FFRF?

      • dennis

        No, there is no hate, and no fear, simply a request for you to keep your fantasies out of their public life. If you try really hard I am sure you can grasp this idea, if not education works

        • wandakate

          You must be directing that statement to the LGBT people as well as to the Christians. They flaunt everything to everybody everywhere and like, we are right here in your face with our lifestyle, our sins and our perversions and our lust of the flesh. So what’s good for the goose, is good for the gander.

      • wandakate

        It’s all about a spiritual battle between the forces of good and the forces of evil. One will go up when it’s over and the other will be going way down. Heaven or hell are the only two choices, there is no middle place to go and eternity is forever, but they don’t believe that. They probably just think when it’s over it’s over but they are mistaken…I think they are misguided, they are unlearned and deceived by the evil one, but not nuts…many of them are very bright, they just have their spiritual health in the wrong place. They think they can save themselves, if they need saving at all.

      • dennis

        Truly there is no fear of fantasies, they just do not want children perverted by the drivel. You only find it senseless because you have no sense. hate emanates from your religion, just look around and read these posts, spewing hate.

  • Allen Brandon

    Why does a group in Wisconsin have any say what happens in Texas? And why do they care?? As Christians we need to say enough is enough!

    • Matthew T. Mason

      Exactly. I would respond by calling a press conference, at which I would burn the letter on camera, and then tell Sam Grover if he has a problem with the sign, he should come to Hawkins and say it personally. But I would also add I assume no responsibility if Grover is physically unable to leave on his own accord.

    • http://www.ragingelephantsradio.com/ Doc Greene

      They don’t! The problem is our governor is weak. He will not stand up for the rights of Texans.

      • wandakate

        I don’t live in Texas, I’m in North Carolina, but if that is the case, then perhaps you need a new governor, or asked Donald Trump if he can help you out down there. He’s the one with the guts, the backbone and the stamina to get things done and the Donald doesn’t put up with anything either, you don’t mess with TEXAS, and you don’t mess with THE DONALD!!!

    • Eric Youngstrom

      Because Texas sucks

    • wandakate

      If Texans don’t go up to Wisconsin and mess in their business then why in the doo dads are they down in Texas messing with business that is none of their business????? Let Wisconsin take care of it’s own and Texas can do the same.
      These people somehow think they have all the rights and Christians don’t have any. The rights of Christians are just as valid and important as the right of any other people out there, so I would question Who put them in charge of being the police in the first place?

  • Josey

    Mayor Will Rogers rebuffed FFRF’s demands for removal of the sign.“They (FFRF) scare you into believing there’s a boogie man,

    and we’re going to get you,” he told Raw Story. “They want God and Jesus out of our life. I mean that’s what the bottom line is.”

    You go Mayor Rogers! Finally someone who gets what they try to do by intimidating and too many schools and places are removing
    signs and thing because they are falling for the bullying tactics of this organization. Bully for you Mayor!

    • Ambulance Chaser

      What would you like him to do? Force someone to file a lawsuit? Because the mayor is going to lose. Any display that promotes theism or Christianity on public land is forbidden.

      McCreary County v. ACLU of Kentucky, 545 U.S. 844 (2005)

      • James

        Yeah, or any other beliefism for that matter! Hey, wait! What do we believe in then? if we ain’t allowed to believe in nuttin but nuttiness? OK, wait.. “In nuttiness we stand!” Ah, just don’t have any ring to it!…Well, but at least, we all agree! Putin and the Chinese will like this!

    • dennis

      You misunderstand, they do not want God and Jesus out of your life, they want it out of theirs, and you keep shoving it at them with or on public lands and resources. Is that so hard to understand?

      • wandakate

        Ridiculous!!! If they don’t want to see the signs then they don’t have to read them. It’s like a sign for a bar down the road or a sign about cigarettes, or liquor or any other questionable signs on the road, if you don’t want to see it then don’t look, just ignore it. Signs about gambling for instance. Many people don’t approve of bars or cigarettes or liquor and gambling but the signs are still there, so be reasonable (if that’s possible).
        You say, and you keep shoving it at them…you mean like all the LGBT people are pushing their agenda on the general public with their gay pride parades and their rainbow flags etc. and their unisex bathrooms in various places. That group pushes things in the face of others, but it’s not okay to put up a sign about JESUS welcoming people to a town. This is a bunch of crap, and everyone has rights. I say mind your own business and I’ll do the same.
        They want to put up statues of satan as monuments and by the courthouses and the city halls etc. There are no statues there of JESUS or Mary, so what’s with that?
        If it’s private land then it is, so be it, go home…

      • freedixie

        No, they not only want God out of their lives, but out of everyone’s life. If they want to believe in nothing, then I say knock yourself out. But don’t infringe on anyone’s right to free speech. Nobody is forcing anyone to accept any religion. They have the free choice to go to hell if they want to. Nobody wants them to go there, but that is their choice, and destination when they reject God.

    • wandakate

      GO MAYOR!!! YOU ROCK!!! You can be out mayor anytime…Stand up for your rights, b/c if you don’t nobody else will. All these people who do wrong will face judgment one day face to face with JESUS and he said if they don’t obey and keep His commandments they will not be going to the Kingdom of GOD. He is looking for people that know and do right, not wrong. He is looking for the ones that stand up and put on the whole armor of GOD and persevere and overcome this mess that we are now in.
      He’s looking for people with integrity, and people with some backbone, not a group of wimps. I remember that old song Stand Up, Stand Up for JESUS, ye soldiers or the cross, life high your royal banner, it must not suffer loss. From victory unto victory, His army shall He lead, till every soul is vanquished and CHRIST is LORD indeed.
      They banner is up and it must not suffer loss…Stick to your guns. I know the Texas motto used to be Don’t Mess With Texas, but I’m not sure what it is now. But Texans are tough for the most part. My daddy was from Corpus Christy, Texas and he was one tough man. PERSEVERE TEXANS…HOLD THE FORT!

  • FoJC_Forever

    I suppose Jesus welcomes all to any tract of land on His earth. He owns everything, so His Welcome Message could be applied anywhere. More specifically, Jesus (the) Christ is calling and welcoming people into His Eternal Kingdom. His offer will remain until the End.

    Follow Jesus, find Salvation.

    • Dave_L

      “And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.” (John 8:23)

      “Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36)

  • FoJC_Forever

    I suppose Jesus welcomes all to any tract of land on His earth. He owns everything, so His Welcome Message could be applied anywhere. More specifically, Jesus (the) Christ is calling and welcoming people into His Eternal Kingdom. His offer will remain extended until the End.

    Follow Jesus, find Salvation.

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Beautifully put! And it’s a nice sign too. A LOT nicer than the White House lit up in rainbow colors.

  • Wayne McLaw

    these athiest are threaten that people are discovering their lie

  • eloisa nailon

    Being offended by something/someone you don’t believe existing??? Hmmmm… If the mere name of Jesus threatens their beliefs then it only proves one thing, Jesus Christ is real and that they cannot disprove His existence so they resort to bullying the believers of Christ. They call their group “freedom from religion foundation” but they want people to embrace their beliefs and renounce Christian faith, where is FREEDOM there???

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Amen! They are just as offended by the cross as they are the Name of Jesus too.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      A) They believe that signs exist.
      B) They don’t want anyone to renounce Christianity. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary.

      • elsie_24

        A) Will they argue as much if what was written there is “baphomet welcomes you in …” , if the sign is really the issue and not the name written on it.
        B) If they don’t want anyone to renounce Christianity, why can’t they respect this kind of expression of faith? Please do not forget, that we all have equal rights to practice freedom of expression and practicing our faith is part of that right.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          A) That’s not the issue. Don’t move the goalposts. The FFRF does not oppose something they don’t believe in. They oppose the sign. They don’t disbelieve in signs.

          B) Because it’s “an expression of faith” by a government entity. They would not, and have not, sent demand letters to any private landowners for expressing faith.

        • wandakate

          They should be able to have the sign there IF it’s located on totally private property, otherwise the sign would not belong on public land is what I think they are saying and objecting to generally speaking.
          They are trying to keep church and state separated, or public land from having signs about JESUS or BUDDA or ALLAH or BAPHOMET or satan or the devil are whatever…

    • dennis

      See, that is the problem. You have no, or a warped, understanding of FFRF. Not offended by God or Jesus, but by your use of public lands or funds to promote your (or other religions) use of them. .

      • wandakate

        When you put it that way it actually does make sense to the person that has common sense and some wisdom to help him understand. I understand it perfectly and thank you for explaining it, even in your brief explanation, it’s not hard to comprehend . Basically what is good for the goose is good for the gander, and everyone should be on equal ground. Keep church matters and state matters separate, That sounds like what you’re saying here.

        • dennis

          Absolutely You have it exactly correct, in my opinion. I think think many xians will be appreciative of this in the near future as Islam overtakes to become the majority in this country. Then the separation will become more attractive.

          • wandakate

            Fact is most Christians think they’re going to be “raptured” out of here removed, taken off the earth BEFORE any of this bad stuff happens. They aren’t looking for the Islamic people to take over, or the antichrist or even to know what the mark of the beast is going to be, they are all deceived. You are right Islam is going to strive to take over and eventually they may do that very thing, after all, that is their main goal, to take each country one by one, Europe and then us after that, so it’s really just a matter of time.

          • wandakate

            Hey, speaking of Islam, I just saw Glenn Beck’s new book today at Walmart all about Islam and how they will take over and the strategy they will use to do that. Christians will be persecuted for their faith b/c they didn’t denounce JESUS. That’s exactly what’s already happening and just happened last week in Oregon at that college. The guy singled out Christians as he lined up people and said if you’re a Christian step forward, and the ones who were brave enough to do that (for JESUS sake-in the name of JESUS), they were killed. He told them that since they believed, they were going to him in about a minute, and he shot them dead right in front of everybody else…oh my GOD, what mental anguish and psychological trauma that was for those pour souls. That will live in their memory forever. Anyway Glenn’s book looks interesting just in case you want to read that.

      • elsie_24

        #1 The case is still unsettled so why is that your statements seem so sure that they used “public land/funds” to build this sign???
        #2 “…simply a request for you to keep your fantasies out of their public life…” – you speak as if you know everything but you don’t even understand the difference between faith and fantasies… these two are not interchangeable they are not synonymous.
        #3 “…they just do not want children perverted by the drivel…” – so you think your reasoning is sensible???

        Isaiah 55:8-9 (NIV)
        8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
        neither are your ways my ways,”
        declares the Lord.
        9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
        so are my ways higher than your ways
        and my thoughts than your thoughts.

        Proverbs 12:15
        The way of fools seems right to them, but the wise listen to advice.

        Proverbs 16:25
        There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death.

        Matthew 7:6
        “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

        Proverbs 23:9
        Do not speak to fools, for they will scorn your prudent words.

        Proverbs 29:9
        If a wise person goes to court with a fool, the fool rages and scoffs, and there is no peace.

        My intellectual capacity is limited and I’m not a law expert. But I know for sure God is real and He is NOT a mere fantasy. I just feel sorry for you that you accepted the idea that faith in Christ is just a “fantasy” or a “drivel” that can pervert the mind of the children.

    • wandakate

      CHRISTIANS ARE NOT (real Christians that is), EVER EVER EVER GOING TO RENOUNCE THEIR FAITH IN JESUS. THERE IS A HEAVEN (the coming Kingdom of GOD), AND THEY WANT TO BE THERE FOR ALL OF THEIR ETERNITY AND IF THEY RENOUNCE THEIR FAITH IN JESUS THEY WILL NOT GO THERE. THEY LOVE JESUS, THEY BELIEVE IN HIM, THEY WORSHIP HIM ALONE AS THEIR SAVIOR AND THEY WILL PERSEVERE AND OVERCOME UNTIL THE END OF TIME. IF THEY ARE MARTYED FOR THEIR FAITH, THEN SO BE IT. I just realized the caps key was on, sorry as I didn’t mean to be screaming. Just wanted the first sentence to be all caps. It’s too much trouble to go back and retype all of that.
      Christians (real ones) have trust and faith in JESUS and they won’t back down regardless of what is done. Man can kill our bodies, but man cannot kill our spirit that is within us and that belongs to JESUS forever since we belong to HIM and HIM alone…We do have freedom, freedom to chose right or wrong, freedom to chose if we worship JESUS of satan (the devil). We chose where we will spend our eternity, heaven or hell, it’s our own choice. We seal our own fate, we decide the wide road or the narrow road. GOD doesn’t send anybody to hell, they meet their own fate.

    • dennis

      Love your strawman, Since the mere name of Jesus does not threaten I guess that proves on thing Jesus Christ is not real and you cannot prove his existence. Now that makes as much nonsense as your statement. No one wants you to renounce your faith and embrace their beliefs. Why can’t you understand such simple concepts.

  • kady772

    Isn’t it funny how the FFRF only ever goes after Christianity? Almost as if they don’t give a crap about other religions but only have a problem with Jesus…..You know, the people who “don’t believe in God”? Hmmmmm….”Methinks thou dost protest too much”. Silly “atheists”.

    • The Skeptical Chymist

      Why do they only go after Christians? Because it is generally Christians who try to use the power of government to propagate their beliefs. When they see a sign saying “Allah welcomes you to Hawkins” they’ll object to it just as vigorously.

      • kady772

        Keep drinking that kool aid.

      • Matthew T. Mason

        You’re a liar. Muslims have practically taken over Dearborn, MI and Islam is being openly taught in a Tennessee public school, for merely one. Not a single organization has voiced an objection of any kind. Why? Because at their core, the FFRF, et al, are anti-Christian bigots.

        Period, end of discussion.

        • The Skeptical Chymist

          Look up ACLU of Minnesota vs. TiZA, and you’ll see that the ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy because this charter school was advancing the Muslim religion unconstitutionally. If that is happening elsewhere, I’m sure the ACLU will take the case.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Right. Suing a muslim school for teaching Islam.

            The BS meter just overheated and exploded.

            The ACLU is doing nothing, while making it appear they are for show. How does that make you less than a liar?

  • Emmanuel

    Can I have the address so I can send a box of ammo? LOL

  • ltneid

    If it’s private land, there should be no problem. If it’s public land, it should go. It shouldn’t take an act of God to find out.

  • jael2

    These atheist groups are like bullies on the playground; the more intimidation they dish out, the more ground they take. The real problem lies with professing Christians who should be bold as lions, and not fear what man can do to them. But until we get more Joshua and Caleb’s, we can expect more of this bullying to continue.

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      You hit the nail on the head right there. Thanks for posting that.

    • Dave_L

      >”But until we get more Joshua and Caleb’s……..”

      >>God told Joshua and Caleb to exterminate all men women and children in Canaan. That was part of the role of the State Church in Old Testament times.

      God abolished the State Church at the time of the crucifixion and formally in AD 70 with the destruction of Jerusalem.

      Jesus says that His kingdom is not of this world, but fills the earth spiritually as New Testament Israel a.k.a. the Church.

      Today our ethics are not those of the Old Testament but of the New. We can admire Caleb’s and Joshua’s obedience to God under his plan for their times. But his plan for us today is far different. Today we frame our lives according to the Sermon on the Mount.

      Scripture tells us we are to be like Jesus and walk as he walked. Thus our role models for today should be Peter and all the Apostles or Stephen who preferred death over resisting evil with force. How can you have faith in God while refusing to turn the other cheek? Or maintain faith using force to resist evil when he tells us not to?

    • Dave_L

      So what should Christians do? Preach the Gospel or do something else? It seems you are suggesting we do something besides preach the Gospel. If so, what is it? And how do we accomplish it?

      • wandakate

        What do Christians do?, we occupy until He comes. We stand our ground, and we put on the whole armor of GOD, just like He instructed us to do. We obey Him. JESUS said, “IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS”. That was all 10 of them, not just the ones that we want to obey while we ignore the rest of them.
        We are to let others see JESUS in us. We are to be a light on a hill (to a dark world of sinners). We were to do unto others as we would have them do unto us, we were to be our brother’s keeper, and we were supposed to love our neighbor as ourselves, meaning if they need help, we are not to turn them away.
        Remember JESUS said, “NOT EVERYONE WHO SAYS TO ME LORD, LORD WILL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD, BUT ‘only’ THE ONES WHO DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER”.
        This should sum up most of what we are to be doing and how do we accomplish all of it? We pray daily and we asked forgiveness for our sins and our trespasses, we help whoever needs help. We focus on our obedience and good works.
        JESUS said, ‘I AM COMING SOON AND MY REWARD IS WITH ME, TO GIVE TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS SHALL BE”. Its our works that count. We are saved by grace through our faith in JESUS, but we will be judged by our ‘WORKS”.
        James told us that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD. He also said, WILL YOUR FAITH ALONE SAVE YOU?, NO IT WILL NOT.
        Preaching the gospel is wonderful but living the gospel is better. We are to be the light of the world b/c most people around us are not saved and don’t know JESUS and will go to hell otherwise. We “must” do all that is within our power and strength and wisdom to help them find their way.
        We are to be in the world, but not of the world. Hope this answers your questions…blessings.

        • Dave_L

          “IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS”. That was all 10 of them, ” Yes. Have you ever considered that if you do exactly the opposite of what the 10 Commandments forbid, you end up with the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount? As well as all New Testament ethics?

          Do not Steal = give, Do nor murder = promote life and well being even for enemies. Do not lie = speak the truth (Preach the Gospel) and so on.

          Many take heart in that they don’t do this or that, but the Sermon requires us to do…..good.

          • wandakate

            Our FAITH WITHOUT OUR WORKS IS DEAD!!!!! So, yes it’s always good to do good.
            JESUS wants our obedience, not our lip service. Actions are always louder than words.

    • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

      I agree with you.

    • Dave_L

      “But until we get more Joshua and Caleb’s……..”

      God told Joshua and Caleb to exterminate all men women and children in Canaan. That was part of the role of the State Church in Old Testament times. Are you suggesting this?

      God abolished the State Church at the time of the crucifixion and formally in AD 70 with the destruction of Jerusalem.

      Jesus says that now His kingdom is not of this world, but fills the earth spiritually as New Testament Israel a.k.a. the Church.

      Today our ethics are not those of the Old Testament but of the New. We can admire Caleb’s and Joshuah’s obedience to God under his plan for their times. But his plan for us today is far different. Today we frame our lives according to the Sermon on the Mount.

      Scripture tells us we are to be like Jesus and walk as he walked. Thus our role models for today should be Peter and all the Apostles or Stephen who preferred death over resisting evil with force. How can you have faith in God while refusing to turn the other cheek? Or maintain faith using force to resist evil when he tells us not to? Where does Jesus meddle in politics?

      When some Christians struggle to control government, they are trying to control something that does not belong to them.

      • wandakate

        JESUS got plenty angry and he certainly stood His ground. He went to the temple where the money changers were selling all kinds of goods, merchandise as well as animals in cages (doves etc). and He screamed and yelled at them, and then He went over to them and overturned their cages and knocked down their merchandise and said, “MY FATHER’S HOUSE IS TO BE A HOUSE OF PRAYER AND YOU HAVE TURNED IT INTO A DEN OF THIEVES”.
        JESUS may not have meddled in politics but He sure did stand His ground, and was by no means weak like some mayors, or governors or public figures. He knew right from wrong and He was not going to be bullied and neither should todays Christians. The ones that are weak will accept the mark of the beast and will thus go to hell for that decision. They better wake up now while they still can.

        • Dave_L

          Jesus was fulfilling Old Testament prophecies when he cleansed the Temple. It had to happen that way in obedience to God. He tells us to not visit evil with evil but to respond only with good. We are never to use hostile resistance towards evil.

          • wandakate

            Apparently you don’t think Christians should own guns either or depend themselves if they need too, and that is something that I don’t agree with. I think we are to be prepared and defend ourselves if it becomes necessary. Murder is intentional, however defending oneself is self defense and not intentional, but unavoidable…

          • Dave_L

            Jesus never defended himself using hostile force, nor the Apostles. He forbids us from practicing self-defense also. Vengeance belongs to God.

          • freedixie

            Luke 22:36

            “Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” There is a time for every season under Heaven. If you want to lay down and let the Muslims kill you, then go for it. When they come after me, I’m sending them to meet God.

          • Dave_L

            “And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.” (Luke 22:38)

            Greek for the swords mentioned here = a relatively short sword or other sharp instrument, sword, dagger

            Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 622). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

            The swords were basically daggers and probably for protection against animals since Jesus had already rebuked one disciple for using his sword on an enemy.

            “Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.” (Matthew 26:52)

    • dennis

      Standing up for one’s constitutional rights is a far cry from bullying.

      • James

        When we are standing up for our Constitutional rights we are not bullying anybody. We are trampling down our adversaries!

      • freedixie

        What is it when the atheists try to take away the town’s right to free speech? A town in Texas is not forcing anything on some stupid, atheist Yankees over 1,000 miles away. Those idiots need to butt out and mind their own business.

        • dennis

          First, what ever gave you the idea that a town has the right to free speech, that is just silly. Second, constitutional violations are each citizen’s business, even if they are “stupid, atheist Yankees over 1,000 miles away”
          Third, your undewrstanding of their “needs” is laughable, thanks for that.

    • wandakate

      Its the Christians that are weak, and don’t have the guts or backbone to stand up to them…WAKE UP CHRISTIANS…if you don’t want to be bullied then stand your ground, or it will most defiantly gets worse in the future. Persecutions are coming in great numbers unless you stand up for your rights, you will fall by the wayside. JESUS told you to stand firm and put on the whole armor of GOD in order to fight against the wiles of the devil (satan). You were told to persevere and overcome the evil in the world and breaking down and falling over and kissing their bottoms isn’t doing anything that JESUS told you to do…

    • freedixie

      Yes. The atheists, fags, NAACP, Muslims, cultural terrorists all bully their way around and try to force their wants on everyone else.

  • Dave_L

    What if “Jesus” is just some guy welcoming people to Hawkins. There are many named Jesus who are not affiliated with the Jesus we as Christians know. This would be pretty funny if it turned out this way.

  • LadyGreenEyes

    Private land, private sign. Maybe this anti-freedom bunch should stay in Wisconsin, and mind their own business!

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      That settles it right there – good show! Now, here is my question for you, LGE: since the life of an atheist has no objective purpose or meaning, and the universe is headed for a slow, cold, dark death, on atheism, where no one will ever be around to know or remember ANYTHING anyone did, whether they behaved like Ghandi or Hitler, it will not matter if there is no God, then why do these atheist organizations act as though they are doing something objectively moral with an objective purpose?!? You would almost think that somewhere, deep down, they DO know that there is a God.

      And what is it with all the New Atheists evangelizing their “religion?!?” That argues for them believing that it actually DOES matter what one believes! But, on atheism, what one believes, how they behave, what they do with their lives, is all an ice cream flavor – none of it matters at all in any ultimate sense. It’s almost like they believe their lives have some sort of ultimate meaning – but such is not possible without God!

      • LadyGreenEyes

        There you go, trying to apply logic to people who have none!

        They know God is real, and they are so terrified that the mere mention of Him is too much for them to handle. They make themselves believe that they can make Him cease to exist by erasing any mention of Him.

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Yes, I think that you are describing the hard-core New Atheist type, the evangelizer, etc. But, I think that there are also seeker atheists – they keep an open mind and are willing to follow the evidence where it leads. Such was I once. They actually DO want to know the truth – but like me, they are just looking in the wrong places, stumbling around in the darkness until God turns the Light on for them. And He promises to do this – for any SINCERE truth seeker.

          BTW, you are doing an outstanding job with Dave L.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Yes, and there are some like you were. Those, we can perhaps reach! You have a better chance there, because you have been there.

            I hope so! He’s either very misguided, or deliberately misleading, and I am not sure yet which it is.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            You do an outstanding job with the atheists, LGE – your apologetics is fantastic.

            Yes, he and I have been around the block for a couple of weeks now, and it is my belief that he has focussed in on the Sermon on the Mount to argue for pacifism in any circumstance, and is ignoring the wealth of Scripture. I also believe that some, hopefully not him, take this approach as an excuse for laziness and cowardice. I really do appreciate his Gospel-first heart, but it seems to be at the sacrifice of the rest of Scripture, including Jesus’s Greatest and Second Commandments, etc.

            But he really IS desiring to be obedient to God – I do believe that 100%. I just believe it is faulty exegesis and faulty logic. He strongly disagrees with me though, and does make some very good points.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            I appreciate that! I try, and I do a lot of research in some cases, to get to the whole truth of a matter. It’s good study, if nothing else!

            That’s likely the case, and he seems sincere. I hope he’s sincere, because if he is, then he can learn. Some are indeed lazy of afraid, and I hope that isn’t true here! Those that are need to remember that a perfect love casts out all fear. If we act as we should, God tends to notice, and He is always with us. How many times have you seen His protection? I have, many times!

          • wandakate

            YES I do believe what you say that there are seeker atheist…they do know GOD exist, and they are keeping an open mind and are willing to follow evidence. GOD is like the wind, we can’t actually see the wind, however we do realize that the wind is there b/c the trees and bushes are blowing and we can feel the cool or cold air on our skin.
            GOD is like that, we don’t actually see GOD, but we know that He is there nonetheless. He is there in spirit form and He is there inside of us, in our heart and He isn’t going anywhere. He can’t be taken away from us, except by our own doing with willful sin in our lives, He will go away. He doesn’t want to leave us or have us in sin but He can’t tolerate sin. JESUS had “no sin” in His life and He came to seek and to save those who are lost and will let Him come in and change their lives according to His will which is like giving them a new heart, new thinking and a new spirit within.
            Getting to know JESUS is a wonderful thing and I for one would not be able to survive without His love and care and wisdom of which I am most grateful for. They need to find a savior and hopefully one day they will before it’s too late for them.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            I really like the way you expressed that, Wandakate! That is a keeper right there – thanks for spending the time to put those thoughts together – quite beautiful, inspiring, and encouraging! God bless!

          • wandakate

            Thank you so much, you made my day. I spend hours on the internet reading comments and writing back (I am a writer), and my manuscripts were time consuming but they were truth and they were beautiful b/c they were inspired by the LORD (the HOLY SPIRIT within), and they were inspiring b/c He only wishes to inspire us with His graciousness and His love, and they were encouraging, b/c He wants to encourage us to be the best that we can be. He knows that we are only mortals in the flesh/humans, and that we make mistakes. But He said, “Come to me all of you who are heaven laden, and I will give you rest”. And along with that rest is an abundance of Peace to weather the storms of life and all the ups and down that we have daily.
            JESUS is the way, the truth, and the life and we can’t reach GOD the FATHER, unless we know JESUS His son…Blessings to you for your kind words, as they were very encouraging and we can all use some kind words and encouragement can’t we?

      • wandakate

        Of course they know there is a GOD, they just don’t acknowledge His presence…They don’t yet realize that every breath they breathe comes from above (GOD) and that when He wants to He has the power to withdraw their breath and they will cease to exist in the physical world as a flesh and blood human being.
        We DEPEND on GOD for every breath we take, but they don’t realize that let alone believe it if they do realize it.
        They need a savior and without one that’s it, they are loss for eternity.

    • Dave_L

      Maybe Christians should begin following Jesus and turn the other cheek. And become the “Peacemakers” he called us to be. Instead of being the source of much mayhem.

      • LadyGreenEyes

        Maybe you should read a Bible and stop spouting this nonsense.

        • Dave_L

          If you do not follow the Sermon on the Mount, you are not a Christian. It is the Doctrine of Christ.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Nice of you to decide who is, and isn’t, Christian. Your works=based system isn’t correct. Salvation is by grace, through faith.

          • Dave_L

            Faith without works is dead. New Testament works center in the Sermon on the Mount. True, you cannot be saved by practicing them, else Gandhi would be a Christian. But if you are to follow Jesus in thanksgiving for saving you, they will surely guide you in His way.

            You cannot rightfully call yourself a Christian apart from them.

            Jesus told his disciples and Apostles to go and preach the Gospel; “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:20)

            “………And the disciples (those who followed the Apostles teachings) were called Christians first in Antioch.” (Acts 11:26)

          • LadyGreenEyes

            You cannot rightfully claim someone who doesn’t follow your twisted interpretation isn’t Christian. Do you have any idea what being Christian actually means? Upon what do you base your salvation?

          • Dave_L

            You cannot reject the Sermon on the Mount and follow Jesus. It is impossible.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            So, refusing to answer? In other words, you have no idea what it means, and are not Christian. Since that is the case, stop telling us what we are supposed to believe.

          • Dave_L

            How can we call ourselves Christian when we refuse to follow Christ?

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Ask yourself that, since you want to deny so much of His Word.

          • Joseph O Morrow

            DUELING THEOLOGIES:

            Can either of you show me where Jesus commanded us throw theologies at each other? I haven’t called myself religious or Christian for years! Jesus Christ never calls me either one.

            Which part of the Scriptures disqualifies itself from “ALL Scripture is God-breathed”? The words concerning our origins are God-breathed! The words concerning pre-Flood civilization are God-breathed! The words about the confusion of human communications is God-breathed! The words about the Israelites’ slavery in Egypt is God-breathed! The Exodus is God-breathed! The Ten Commandments are God-breathed! The Former Prophets are God-breathed! The Latter Prophets were all God-breathed! The Psalms, Proverbs, Job, etc. are ALL God-breathed! The Gospels are God-breathed! Acts is God-breathed! All the Epistles are God-breathed! Revelation is God-breathed!

            Which of these, or any I didn’t specifically mention, are NOT God-breathed?

            Following Christ doesn’t require adopting a religion, a philosophy, or a theology! We don’t even have to call ourselves anything! What does God Himself call us? Are you really sure you know?

            God IS GOD, not a theology! Jesus is the Word who became a man so He could die for us, not so He could found a religion! Jesus is NOW our High Priest until He comes again to become King of Planet Earth. After one thousand years of further preparation, God the Father will also come here to New-Universe-Headquarters Planet Earth!

          • LadyGreenEyes

            “Christian” is simply a descriptive label, which most use to define a person who follows Christ. That the term is used to describe some who do not actually follow Him is something He told us would happen. Jesus spoke of those who would do things in His Name, and not actually know Him.

            “Religious” is more about practices, and I can see avoiding that label. One can be religious, and not at all on track with what God expects of us.

            When did I ever claim that Scripture was anything else? I firmly believe that the entire Bible is God’s Word. Some is metaphor, but all is Truth!

            You see “theology” as I see “religion”. I consider “theology” to be the study of God and His Word. Some do use the term to describe a belief system, though, which is, I would guess, why you hold the position you do.

            When did I ever state that God isn’t God?

            What passages can you list that state the Father is coming to Earth?

          • Joseph O Morrow

            Christian: That was what the folks who hated God first called the disciples at Antioch, years after Jesus walked the earth. Paul never took up that word to describe himself after that! In fact, he still called himself a Pharisee, when that was to the advantage of the situation. Yes, I would rather NOT have a word describing me that too often describes attitudes and practices which are contrary to Christ Himself. I respect Him too much!!!

            Maybe the accusations are inaccurate, but I see that you have been accused of not having much to do with the Sermon on the Mount, as if that were part of some past “dispensation” or something of that nature. That obeying what Jesus said before He was crucified was somehow works (earning salvation) and contrary to grace and opposed to faith.

            Paul talks much about works AND grace, law AND faith! He doesn’t speak of any of these as contrary to one another, but shows how our own willful DISOBEDIENCE causes US to TREAT THEM as contrary to each other!

            Do I void the law through faith? Not at all, I thus UPHOLD the law!

            Now the Commandment is Holy and Righteous and Good!

            When we are obeying traffic laws, are we then working to obtain our drivers licenses? Not at all. My drivers license authorizes me to drive in the first place so that I CAN be in a position to obey the traffic laws. Therefore, when I obey a traffic law, that is not “works”. I am not trying to “earn” anything. I am merely doing what is expected of me in order for myself and other drivers around me to have an enjoyable and healthy driving experience.

            Obey God’s laws, in like manner, is also not earning anything. We are thus only doing what God expects us all to do while living in His universe. God GAVE us His law, by means of HIs grace, so that we would know HOW to live an enjoyable and healthy life today as part of His creation.

            “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are gone; and the sea is no more. And I saw the holy city Jerusalem new coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Lo, the tabernacle of God is with men, and HE SHALL TABERNACLE WITH THEM, and they shall be His peoples, AND GOD HIMSELF [the Father] shall be with them”!

            “And the city [which just came down to Planet Earth] hath no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine upon it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the lamp thereof [both Father and Son now here]. And the nations shall walk in the light thereof: and the kings OF THE EARTH bring their glory into it”!

            “And there shall be no more curse, and the throne of God AND of the Lamb SHALL BE THEREIN: and His bondmen shall serve Him, and shall SEE HIS FACE; and His name shall be on their foreheads. And night shall be no more; and they have no need of light of lamp, nor light of sun; for the Lord God shall give them light: and THEY shall reign unto the ages of the ages.”

            “I testify unto every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this booklet, If any shall add to them, God shall add to him the plagues written in this booklet: and if any shall take away from the words of the booklet of this prophecy God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this booklet.”

            God knew that some would be tempted to either water down the sayings in His Book or to add religion and theology to it. Thus He gave such warning!

          • LadyGreenEyes

            That makes sense. These days, the term is used to describe anyone attending church, and doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with their actual faith.

            That’s all from a guy that wants t claim Christians are supposed to be helpless, and not even defend themselves, which isn’t close to Biblical. He tosses that out, refuses to address anything else said, and basically acts like a jerk. He basically claims that not reacting with violence to insult means one cannot defend ones self against an attack.

          • Joseph O Morrow

            Just one thing about self-defense:

            Outright violence is not often necessary to defend oneself, but the use of NECESSARY FORCE. Thus I have ultimately seen, in at least a few cases, my adversary end up as my friend.

            Note that necessary force may have to appear quite violent to get the job done, but love must continue to be the underlying motive even when anger is temporarily involved!

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Necessary force can mean violence, though. In the case of defense, if someone comes after my kids, there will be a lot of force, and they aren’t going to be anyone’s friend when it’s all said and done. No anger, simply protecting the charges God gave me.

          • Joseph O Morrow

            Didn’t I just say, “Just one thing about SELF-defense”?

            I know I didn’t just say, “Just one thing about defending your kids”!

            Are you responding to a different post? Or to three randomly-picked words from this post?

            Again, I said: “Outright violence is not often necessary to defend oneself”! Which part of “not often necessary” means “NEVER necessary”?

            Now that I’ve taken MY turn at pretending to have the moral high-ground, how are you doing, LadyGreenEyes?

            I have more-often used force to defend others than I have used defending myself. I have not had to defend my children physically very often, but it was constant-vigilance defending them from corrupting influences! I realize also that I have normally associated “violence” with “excessive force” above-and-beyond “necessary force”.

            There actually HAVE BEEN cases where my enemies HAVE become my friends! (Don’t tell anybody, but I’m actually married to one of those. Soon to be 26 years!) There have also been cases where God Himself obviously intervened BEFORE I had to defend myself or others. I was looking for the “guy that wants t claim Christians are supposed to be helpless”. Is that Dave_L? He did say, “You cannot reject the Sermon on the Mount and follow Jesus. It is impossible.” I get it. He thinks the Sermon on the Mount forbids self-defense! Another case of where the theology-in-the-mind filters everything that one reads in the Bible?

          • LadyGreenEyes

            I never stated that you said “never necessary”; I simply pointed out cases in which it can be necessary. I would agree that defending others is more often the case, too. I will defend myself, if need be, but I’d rather avoid a physical conflict. For others, I am very protective! Family, close friends, children, and anyone that seems defenseless, I just can’t not step in. It’s kind of a “mama bear” thing for me.

            I can’t really list many I would define as enemies, but for those I can, I didn’t stay around them long enough to call them friends. Some, it might have been possible, over time, and others, I can’t see it happening short of a real miracle. It would be a good thing, though! Sounds like you have an interesting story for your marriage!

            Yes, he’s the one. I can’t decide if he is simply sincerely confused, or if he’s trying to cause trouble. I hope it’s the former!

          • wandakate

            The Sermon on the Mount, and don’t forget JESUS told us to obey…”IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS”. He was referring to the BIG 10 commandments of which are all still relevant today.
            They are not obsolete, they did not get “nailed to the cross” as some like to claim. We are to live by each and everyone of them and it’s possible to do so b/c if it wasn’t GOD would never have given them all to us in the first place. He will not bring on us more than we can bear, and we can bear them IF we make up our minds to do so. We can be determined to honor all 10 of them, but we don’t b/c we are told they don’t apply to us today and that we are under another law, another covenant, yet GOD does not change. He’s the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Nowhere in scripture does it say that the 10 commandments are not relevant anymore, that is all unfortunately made up by man and has nothing to do with GOD…People are deceived and only fooling themselves.

          • Dave_L

            The New Testament replaces the Old yet the Old is good for study and teaching.

      • LadyGreenEyes

        Maybe you should go read the verses I already gave you. That passage is about being insulted, and not responding with violence, not about standing around and allowing someone to beat the crap out of you.

        • Dave_L

          “But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” (Matthew 5:39)

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Already discussed. Do try and keep up. That is about not retaliating against someone for an insult. It has nothing to do with resisting violence against ones self.

          • Dave_L

            Were all of the martyrs wrong, Stephen, Paul, all of the Apostles save John, for not defending themselves, preferring death at the hands of injustice instead of denying Jesus’ words? I would hate to think they were wrong and died unnecessarily.

          • LadyGreenEyes

            Being martyred doesn’t mean one didn’t defend themselves. According to you, all who obeyed God and attacked their enemies were wrong.

    • wandakate

      If I want to fly a JEWISH FLAG outside my house, why should I not be able to? Or a CHRISTIAN FLAG, or a USA FLAG, or a DIXIE FLAG or any other kind of flag, as long as it’s on my property and by my own residence.
      Why would people from Wisconsin or any other place come in and want my sign or my flag removed? As you say private land, private sign…enough said.

      • LadyGreenEyes

        Exactly! These days, especially, I really want to plaster the Stars and Bars all over the place. As much because some claim we can’t as for the heritage, which I also consider important!!

  • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

    “They want God and Jesus out of our life. I mean that’s what the bottom line is.”

    and:

    “Last month, the city attorney reviewed the situation and concluded that the sign sat on private property belonging to Crowley Funeral Home. However, as independent contractors contrarily determined that the sign is on public property, city council voted this week to remove the sign.”

    Ignorance is no excuse and the deceptive pronouncements of government officials is–well, lying to the public. I have no doubt that fundamentalists can find both biased government officials and surveyors who will deceive in order to further their religion–a religion that says it is a cardinal sin to deceive (bear false witness).

    The solution is to actually give the sign to the church and let them remove it and put it on their property already and obviously in existence. For the city to give the property on which it sits to a religious organization is still a de facto endorsement of religion and it will remain to appear that it is on public property.

  • Tony

    Why do satanist / Atheist care ? I would understand satanist but why atheist??? remember they do not believe in ANY God. to them it is a fairy tail and a fable. I guess because deep down they know God is real. and they will lose the battle in the end.

    Armageddon is happening NOW, and we are at the beginning of the end of days ( the end times) …. At least this is what i believe. War when be where it is the beginning and the end in the same land. Start of life where the end of life is. I am going to put a Christian flag in front of my home as soon as i get another flag pole. LOL , protest that I dare you. I am Also a Marine that is Armed. Semper Fi ( always Faithful) God Country and the Corp.

  • Nofun

    Does he though … really?

  • Tim

    I see a resurgence coming related to Christians or religious groups against the FFRF, and I warned earlier on this site that people should recognize that Christians are not going to continue to see these groups as threats, but to stand against them in every possible manner. More and more of this type of thing is coming and I am proud of those standing up for our rights in the United States to have Freedom of Religion.

  • freedixie

    Tell those Yankees to keep their atheist noses in their own business. In no way does this “establish” a religion. England had an established religion which all had to follow. That is the reason for the 1st Amendment. Even if this sign were on public property, the government is not forcing anyone to participate in a particular religion. These idiots misinterpret the Constitution and add stuff to it that is not there. If they come for the sign, fill their butts with rock salt from a 12 gauge shotgun.