Sheriff Removes Scripture Decals from Patrol Vehicles Following Threat of Lawsuit

DecalHOUSTON COUNTY, Ala. — A sheriff in Alabama has removed a Scripture decal from all of his patrol vehicles upon recommendation following the threat of a lawsuit from a prominent church-state separation group.

As previously reported, in July, Houston County Sheriff Donald Valenza purchased decals citing Matthew 5:9, and quoting the Scripture in part, “Blessed are the peacemakers.”

“I’ve always had religious belief, and I feel like that’s kept me alive,” he told the Dothan Eagle. “It symbolizes the Houston County Sheriff’s Office.”

The Sheriff’s Department posted a photo of the decal on its Facebook page, which sparked discussion from both sides.

“Thank you for having the courage to display the decal! Maybe others will follow,” remarked on commenter named Mike.

“It is inappropriate for the sheriff’s office to display Bible verses on county property,” asserted another named William. “Religious statements have no place on sheriff’s department vehicles.”

But according to reports, the group Americans United for Separation of Church and State sent two letters to the sheriff’s department, demanding that the decals be removed under threat of a lawsuit.

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Houston County Administrator Bill Dempsey told the Dothan Eagle this week that county officials spoke to local attorneys, as well as their insurance carrier, and weren’t desirous of entering a costly legal battle.

“[W]e contacted our liability insurance carrier and their attorneys said, if we take this to court, they said we’re going to lose,” he said. “The county would be looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal expenses.”

But several commissioners in the county state that they believe the decals should have remained despite the threat.

“I still stand firm on the symbol on the stickers,” Curtis Harvey told the outlet. “I wish he would put them back on. I just feel like when God is on our side we can’t go anywhere but forward.”

He said that he has been receiving numerous phone calls about the decals after it was learned that the sheriff removed them.

“If the citizens of the county would find out where to get those decals and how to get them and put those decals on their cars like [Valenza] did, that would show the people are standing up for what they believe in,” added  Commissioner Doug Sinquefield.

The Wisconsin-based Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF) has also sent Valenza a letter, demanding that the decals be removed because they promote Christianity with taxpayer dollars.

“Placing decals that literally quote chapter and verse on Houston County property is a clear endorsement of Christianity, especially when the quote is viewed in its full context,” it read. “[It] alienates the nearly 30 percent of Americans who are non-Christian.”


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  • Mr. Avatar

    Well – then 70% of the cars should have the sticker since they don’t have a problem with that. And put some other saying of wisdom on the other 30%.

    • Atle

      Allahu-Snackbar.

  • Oceanside Solaita

    Please leave the decals on the vehicles. Stand up for our LORD JESUS CHRIST !!! Without him we are nothing. He is our armor of salvation. The lawyers and insurance company gave up before you were given the opportunity to represent ny GOD. GOD is alive and we must give our best because he always giving his all. Brothers and sisters in CHRIST we must trust in him in all we do. He is giving us the opportunity to do what is right. Do not allow Satan to kill our JOY !!! Fight for God because only he can give the PEACE we are searching for. LOVING YOU WITH ALL MY HEART !!! SOUL !!! MIND !!! STRENGTH !!!

  • Ed Sumner

    Grow a pair ya pansy!

    • Peter Leh

      a real confederate flag. bravo

      • Ed Sumner

        The First National Flag. The commonly displayed “battle flag” is actually a naval ensign, used aboard ships of the line. Infantry flags were square with a 2″ white border.

  • Dave_L

    We should not put Jesus’ name or Christian slogans on patrol cars, unless the police act like Jesus. That is, if they forgive everyone they pull over. And refuse to shoot the people shooting at them. And turn the other cheek when thugs assault them and so on. We must realize that Police cannot act like Jesus since evil would over take the world. But at the same time, we must realize that Christians cannot be police men and women because they would not be able to turn the other cheek like Jesus tells us to.

    • Bill

      That is so far off from Bible teaching I dont even know where to start….

      • Dave_L

        Please try, I would like to debate this.

        • Bill

          You know that Jesus told his disciples to buy a sword to protect themselves and sell their clothing if they needed to?

          • Dave_L

            The sword was not a battle sword but more like a dagger according to the Greek word;

            ① a relatively short sword or other sharp instrument, sword, dagger

            Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 622). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

            It would be like me carrying Pepper Spray when I walk.

          • Bill

            It was a sword. for defense. It was not like pepper spray…

          • Dave_L

            Not according to Scripture. If it were for defense, why would Jesus heal the servant’s ear that one of the disciples cut off when they came to crucify him. He told the disciple to put up the sword and warned that all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Think about it Bill.

          • Bill

            Hold on there cowboy. You’re pulling verses from two very different areas of context. So, either you are a troll, or your a new Christian. Either one you should know about context….

          • Dave_L

            Please explain how one verse should not be used to interpret another. Normally we use Scripture to interpret Scripture.

          • Bill

            Context…..

          • Dave_L

            Try taking a theology course and passing it without using Scripture to interpret Scripture.

          • Bill

            Context is King in Theology…………I’m done. C’ya

          • Dave_L

            You would not pass using your method.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            I vote troll. Flag him.

          • Bill

            I agree….

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Bill, take a look at Dave’s comments in this thread alone. He accused me of committing the unpardonable sin, placing himself at the level of the Holy Spirit, and then compared himself to Stephen and lied about it when called on it.

            If this guy is a Christian, he is certainly misguided.

          • Dave_L

            I did not accuse you of anything, In fear I cautioned you for throwing around opinions without giving them time for prayer and consideration. I come to this board “prayed up” and also pray during most of my posts.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Shut your mouth. I wasn’t talking to you.

          • Dave_L

            It doesn’t matter, this is an open forum and all contribute making it very interesting.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            It may be an open forum. But it dose not give you the right to hurt other Christians. That is what you are doing. You are hurting people. That is not God’s Plan for Christians.Stop.
            May God Protect and lay His peace upon every Christian you have hurt. May God remember what you are doing to the Christians here on this site.
            Shalom < To the Christians you are hurting. May the Protection and the Peace of God rest on them.
            May God deliver the Christians from you and what you are trying to do to them in the name of Yeshua I rebuke you Dave_L

          • Dave_L

            At least try to prove me wrong using the Scriptures before you condemn me.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Please stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            He is trying cause trouble with Christians. He also tried to divide Christians. I wish this site would stop him.

          • Dave_L

            Please understand that the truth always divides people. Jesus said the truth will make you free implying that apart from His words, people are bound by sin. So yes the truth divides the free from the bound.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            You need to stop hurting others. Have you become so cold heart ted that you no longer care who you hurt??
            The Bible say the *Love* of many will grow cold. Sounds a lot like you.
            Shalom to all the ones you are hurting.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Do not ever respond to me again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Dave_L

            Please except my apologies for trying to reach you for Christ. Possibly you can read some of my replies to others instead.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            He has been telling other Christian they are not Christians if they are not following what he says.

          • Dave_L

            You are mistaken. I only tell people to follow Jesus through his teaching in the Sermon on the Mount.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            No!!! You are a liar.You are so cold!
            Shalom to the one you are hurting.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Me too.

          • Dave_L

            If Jesus rebukes a disciple for cutting off an enemy’s ear, and tells him to put away the sword. Doesn’t that become a rule for other situations involving enemies and the sword? Think about it Bill.

          • The Last Trump

            So very strange that he actually HAD a sword to put away!?
            Hmmmm…..so interesting…..

          • Dave_L

            Where does Jesus or any of the Apostles advocate violence even in self defense situations?

          • The Last Trump

            Hmmmm…..the disciples carried swords!?
            Even AFTER hearing the sermon on the mount!
            How very interesting….
            And un- “turn the other cheek” -like…..

          • Dave_L

            Where does it say they engaged in violence, other that the time one cut off the ear and received Jesus’ rebuke????

          • The Last Trump

            I guess if it’s ok for the disciples of Christ to carry swords it would be permissible for the police to carry guns. Guess Christ understands that there are circumstances that warrant protection. Makes sense.
            Particularly when HE HIMSELF warns those without swords to immediately sell their cloaks to get one. Pretty important to Him that we have them.
            So interesting….

          • Dave_L

            Where does it say Christians are to become Magistrates and arm themselves?

          • Dave_L

            I answered Bill who suggested something similar about the swords they carried;

            The sword was not a battle sword but more like a dagger according to the Greek word;

            ① a relatively short sword or other sharp instrument, sword, dagger

            Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 622). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

            It would be like me carrying Pepper Spray when I walk.

          • The Last Trump

            ??
            Who needs pepper spray when you are supposed to turn the other cheek?!
            Not making much sense here, Dave. And pepper spray hardly separates ears from heads.
            Interesting dilemma you have there….

          • Dave_L

            It is dangerous to turn your other cheek to a Pit Bull.

          • The Last Trump

            Even more dangerous to turn it to another human being.
            You know, with having killed vastly more human beings than any pit bulls ever have. Or anything else for that matter.
            Yup. Sure is a conundrum you have there. Good luck with that bud!

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Dude, flag the troll and make him go away.

          • Dave_L

            Never are we told to defend ourselves against wicked people but to trust God who will never give us more than what we are able, but will provide a way of escape. Death in obedience to Christ trumps violence through fear and lack of faith.

          • The Last Trump

            Here’s a thought:
            Sword = way of escape provided.
            🙂
            Hee, hee! You’re certainly entitled to your opinion my friend.
            Might wanna avoid dark alleys and “The Hood” after sunset though.
            The Lord also doesn’t enjoy being put to the test!
            Common sense and all, ya know!
            On a side note, I’ll bet the Jewish people are awfully glad we trained for war over here and fought the likes of bullies on the block like Adolph Hitler, allowing for them a future in the world and the establishment of their ancient homeland once again in the land of Israel. It’s almost like violence serves a purpose at times…
            So interesting…

          • The Last Trump

            I think you confuse engaging in violence with providing for one’s protection.
            To protect one’s self is not to engage in violence. Called self preservation.
            And is clearly expected and encouraged by our Creator.
            Or they wouldn’t be bothering with all the swords now, would they?

          • Kena

            Not pepper spray Brother. The “sword” would have probably been 24″ or less so it could easily kill. It comes from the word meaning to fight as in combat. So it was used to fight battles.

          • Dave_L

            “And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.” (Luke 22:38)

            [The swords mentioned were] a relatively short sword or other sharp instrument, sword, dagger

            Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 622). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

            The swords were basically daggers and probably for protection against animals since Jesus had already rebuked one disciple for using his sword on an enemy.

            “Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.” (Matthew 26:52)

        • Bill

          I should of asked first: What “kind” of Christian are you? A Bible believing Christian? Or something else…?

          • Matthew T. Mason

            He’s not a Christian at all. He’s a troll. The fact he’d post something so off-topic and asinine proves it.

          • Dave_L

            “Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.” (Romans 14:4)

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Yawn. Satan can quote scripture, too. Get lost, troll.

          • Dave_L

            “But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.” (Mark 3:29–30)

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Whoa. You need to be careful, there, sport. I don’t have to worry about things like that, because I am saved by the blood of the Lamb, by grace through faith.

            Accusing people of committing the unpardonable sin when your own salvation is questionable is to play with hellfire.

          • Dave_L

            You need to be careful throwing opinions around. I have the Holy Spirit and prayerfully consider everything I post.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Liar.

          • Dave_L

            “I am saved by the blood of the Lamb, by grace through faith.” Please explain.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            If you don’t know, you aren’t saved. Simple as that.

          • Dave_L

            I do know, but I cannot discern the loving spirit that comes from being saved in you. And I’m concerned. Even others who disagree with me have a tenderness that only God provides.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            I do know

            No, you don’t.

          • Dave_L

            Let me ask this; Are you saved because you believe? Or do you believe because God saved you?

          • Matthew T. Mason

            I believe you are not saved.

          • Dave_L

            That’s not what I asked. I think you might have a lack of understanding and cannot answer.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Pray for hie deliverance. I think he has some kind of demon within him.

          • Dave_L

            “But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.” (Mark 3:29–30)

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            *Dave_L* I have a question. Do you enjoy hurting Christians?? Dose it make you feel like you have power over them?? Dose it make you feel like a man?? Do you sleep better after hurting Christians?? May God Help you . May God stop you from hurting Christians.
            Shalom to all the Christians you are hurting.

          • The Last Trump

            Hmmm. Damnation you say?
            Gee, THAT doesn’t sound like turning the other cheek and forgiving, now does it? Hmmmm…..how interesting.
            Looks like you just refuted your own argument. Debate concluded. 🙂

          • Matthew T. Mason

            More than that, he’s actually comparing himself to the Holy Spirit!

          • Dave_L

            No, I have the Holy Spirit and you are saying what I do is of the Devil. That is dangerous.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            No, you claim to have the Holy Spirit and seem to be implying I don’t. You just don’t have any idea what you are talking about.

          • Dave_L

            I sense a lot of anger in you and the fruit of the Spirit is so opposite from that. I just wonder?

          • Matthew T. Mason

            The anger is what you want. That’s why you are trolling. That’s why you need to be banned so no one will have to see the nonsensical, heretical bile you hack.

            You do not know what my relationship is with Jesus Christ, and you coming in here, first with a nonsense post, then with making comments designed to provoke anger, tells me you have no room to talk.

            Do you really believe any rational person will look at your comments and not think you are absolutely trolling? Really?

            Knock it off.

          • Dave_L

            Again, you are judging me and that is sin.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            You are trolling and you are flagged.

          • Dave_L

            It’s between you and the Lord. I accept His call in the matter.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            I accept His call in the matter.

            Which means what?

          • Dave_L

            God controls all things and you cannot do anything other than what He has determined for you to do.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            That’s not an answer. Tell me exactly what you were thinking when you wrote that.

          • Dave_L

            If God has determined to honor your efforts to have me banned, I’ll give it some prayer and see what is next.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            In the Name of Jesus stop.

          • Dave_L

            People wrestle with Jesus’ teaching on non-violence but if they study the Scriptures, I’m sure they will thank me for introducing them to the Christian lifestyle.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            you have lost your Human Kindness to Christians.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Look at what you are doing. Look at the trouble ((((you)))) are causing. This is not from God. God dose not work that way.Stop in the Name of Jesus. May God stop you.

          • Dave_L

            Pleas look at the trouble all Christians cause simply by speaking the truth and following Christ’s example. All of the Apostles except John were unjustly killed because of it. Yet they did not lift a finger to defend themselves. Had they remained silent they might have died of old age denying Christ.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            May all the hurt you are causing Christians return to you. May God’s peace, Love and Protection rest on every Christian you are hurting and will continue to hurt.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            I think “Dave_L” has been sent to this site to hurt Christians. And to cause trouble.

          • Dave_L

            God has not sent me to hurt Christians, but just as with any Christian, we are to speak the truth in love.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            You love to tell Christians to turn the other Cheek. What about you?? You did not have to go on and on and on with the Christians.
            You could have put on your big boy boxers and turned your other cheek. But no you have to hurt as many Christians as you can. Knowing God is not in favor of you hurting Christians.You have not Glorified God in Hurting Christians.
            Shalom to all the Christians you are hurting.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            His call is not for you to hurt others.Please stop in the Name of Jesus.

          • Dave_L

            The truth is medicine and sometimes it hurts as it heals, in this case our souls.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            If you had real truth in you you would not be hurting Christians.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Stop trying to hurt others. You are showing a side of you that is not from God. God is not calling you to hurt other. God will stop you.

          • Dave_L

            I am hurting all if I do not share Jesus and what He stands for.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Liar. That is not what Christ wants you to do. Your heart has is full of coldness. Stop hurting Christians.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            I sense that you are trying to causing anger and hurt into Christians so you try to make them look bad. So you can feel like you are somehow above them.In the Name of Jesus. Stop.

          • Dave_L

            That is not my motive. Jesus stirred up lots of anger in those He preached to. That is what got him killed. But of course God planned it this way.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            What you are doing to Christians is dangerous.Stop in the Name of Jesus stop.
            Dear Father in Heaven in Jesus Name please stop “Dave_L” from doing what he is doing to the Christians.Protect Christians from him.

          • Dave_L

            If God stops me it will be because He has given those I’m speaking to, over to a reprobate mind. God wants His word upheld and Jesus’ words proclaimed.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            If you have any kindness left in you, Please stop.

          • Dave_L

            Just cautioning him for throwing opinions around. If you question my motive that is fine, but if you judge, it is sin.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Actually, that’s not true. Jesus is talking about hypocrisy, not judgement.

          • Dave_L

            Judging one for hypocrisy is still judging.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Stop in the name of Jesus. Just stop.Stop doing what you are doing. Enough. May God stop you in Jesus Name.

          • Dave_L

            Please read the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew, chapters 5 through 7) and then see if you can tell me I am wrong.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Please stop.Please stop.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            May God Rebuke the spirits within you. The spirits of deception, lies,causing divisions,hurting Christians.And any other spirit not from God.
            Shalom to the Christians you are hurting.

          • Dave_L

            The only spirit besides my soul is the Holy Spirit. The truth divides; “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12)

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Please stop.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            May the Lord Rebuke you for what you are doing to Christians. May God stop you.
            Shalom to the Christians you are hurting.

          • Dave_L

            The Sermon on the Mount is music to the ears of any follower of Jesus. It is a breath of fresh air or like water in the midst of a desert.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Please stop. Please leave the Christians alone.

          • Dave_L

            I define the word Christian as someone who lives the Sermon on the Mount in thanksgiving for Jesus who took the wrath of God in the place of all who trust in his payment for their sins alone for their salvation. All of the New Testament ethics are based on the Sermon on the Mount.

          • Bill

            You didnt answer my question. Are you a Bible believing Christian? A NT only type Christian? Or what? You said you wanted to debate this, so tell me what kind of Christian you are. Me, I’m a Bible believing Christian…

          • Dave_L

            You do not believe the Bible if you think Jesus promoted retaliation and violence.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Are you God? Do you as a false god see into his heart????????????

          • Dave_L

            Jesus forbids retaliation and violence from those who follow him, just as he forbids lying and stealing.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            PLEASE ! STOP!

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Dave seems to be focusing solely and specifically on the Sermon on the Mount, perhaps to the detriment of whatever else taught in the Bible.

          • Dave_L

            All of the New Testament ethics of Paul and the Apostles center in the Sermon, All of the writers reflect it. Jesus told them to preach the Gospel; “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:20)

          • Matthew T. Mason

            I actually read and believe what all the books of the Bible say, not merely three chapters of the book of Matthew in the New Testament.

          • Dave_L

            I too read all Scripture and can see much of the Sermon in all of the New and even some of the Old Testament. Here’s James quoting Jesus in the Sermon; “But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.” (James 5:12)

          • The Last Trump

            Hmmmm…..condemnation no less!
            How very unforgiving. How interesting…

          • Dave_L

            So why are you condemning me????

          • The Last Trump

            I was?
            Oh. Where?
            Hmmmm…..looks like all I’ve done is point out thought provoking and interesting facts from scripture. And you feel that this condemns you?!
            How interesting…

          • Dave_L

            I took it like you were judging yourself by judging me.

          • The Last Trump

            Looks like you misjudged.
            By making an incorrect judgment.
            While judging.

            Interesting… 🙂

          • Dave_L

            Sometimes you call it wrong.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            You are condemning yourself. By the way you are treating Christians and trying to hurt them. Stop in the Name of Jesus. Hurting Christians is not the plan of God.

          • Dave_L

            I am sinning if not motivated by love and what I say is only what Jesus says.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            When you can not be kind to Christians that is a shame that will rest on your very soul. Better take a look at how you are treating Christians through your hate. You need to learn how to Love. Jesus never once treated people the way you are. Jesus never told his followers to treat Christians like you do.You are doing evil to the Christians. Stop.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            When you are hurting others and causing trouble, who are you Glorifying? God or Satan? Is God ever Glorified when you hurt other? Dose Satan enjoy it when you hurt others? Something to think about. Look at yourself and what you are doing to Christians. Look at yourself through the eyes of God. He sees what you are doing. He sees how you are hurting others.In His timing not mine He will stop you.
            Shalom to the Christians you are hurting.

          • Dave_L

            I am trying to give all a better life following Jesus’ teachings. But as he say, many are called but few are chosen.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            By hurting Christians you are hurting Jesus. Shame on you.

    • Peter Leh

      might be a stretch there dave. 🙂

      to turn the other cheek requires one to violate you personally.

      is speeding a sin or a civil violation?

      the officer represents the government… which the bible say to obey.

      • Dave_L

        It is not a stretch if we consider God rules over two domains, the Spiritual and the Civil. The ethics for each are different and must remain separate. What is legal and expected of the State is not permissible for the Christian, visa versa.

        • Peter Leh

          as a matter of personal opinion i will not disagree if that is your conviction.

          however i live in a family of civil servants. I guess i am just use to it and see no contradictions.

          • Dave_L

            I too have no problem with non-oath taking positions. But mainly with deadly force wielding positions. That is, anything that does not disobey the Sermon on the Mount would no doubt be OK for me.

            We know some of the disciples came from civil servant positions. Another, Cornelius, left the military and became pastor. The early church during the first three-hundred years would not baptize military members unless they became civilians.

    • Matthew T. Mason

      This post shows you to the liar you are. You are not a Christian, but a troll. The fact you will not drop it, instead opting to post provocative posts (such as accusing people of committing the unpardonable sin, as if you are comparing yourself to the Holy Spirit, and then comparing yourself to Stephen), isn’t doing you any favors.

      Everyone can see who you really are. Which is not good for you.

      • Dave_L

        You leave me with no other option than to show what Scripture teaches.

        • Matthew T. Mason

          Placing yourself above people is not Biblical. Placing yourself at the same level as the Holy Spirit is arrogance and idolatry taken to the nth level. Your implied refusal to come to the aid of a sexually abused child is a giant red flag, even as Christ Himself said it is better to put a millstone around your neck and toss yourself into the sea than to harm a child.

          You are above no one. Get that through your skull.

          • Dave_L

            I don’t understand how sharing Scripture involves me in what you accuse me of.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Don’t play games with me. You know what you are doing, and I will not let you get away with it.

          • Dave_L

            “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.” (Matthew 5:22)

          • The Last Trump

            Judgment! Hell fire!!
            Hmmmm…..not very forgiving. No more “turn the other cheek”?
            So interesting….

          • Dave_L

            Jesus is warning us about anger. If we neglect warning others we become guilty and share in their sin.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            You are causing anger in others.Right now Jesus is warning you about causing anger and hurt in others. In Jesus Name stop.

          • Dave_L

            Jesus caused much anger and you will too if you quote him. I only post what he has said and look at the fall-out.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Your shame be upon you hands.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            You are a HUGE liar.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            He never acted like you are acting.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Dave is trolling. Period. Flag his posts and make him go away.

          • Dave_L

            If I would let you win one round, would you let me stay?

          • Matthew T. Mason

            You have to win a round first. Trolling isn’t winning. It’s trolling.

          • The Last Trump

            It’s actually pretty amusing watching Dave refute himself with Biblical quotes condoning violence and judgment. While claiming the police should not enforce law and order, but rather, turn the other cheek.
            Hee, hee. Adorable. 🙂

          • Dave_L

            No, police should do their God appointed jobs visiting evil with evil. Christians should do theirs, visiting evil with good.

        • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

          May the Lord Rebuke you for the hurt you are causing to the Christians here on this site. And any other Christian you may try to hurt elsewhere.
          Shalom the ones you are hurting.

          • Dave_L

            How can the Sermon on the Mount hurt Christians?

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            For the Love of God . Please Stop.

    • Kena

      I have to disagree with you Dave. All who are in a position of civil service must obey and or enforce the laws of the land. And if they are Christian they must also fulfill their duty. God does not condemn the civil authority for fulfilling their duty whether it is writing a ticket or shooting an active threat. Remember that God sets up Governments for the well being of the people and expects them to do justice whether or not they believe in him. These will be judged for what they do while in service as well.

      If the law says “no religious slogans” then no religious slogans. However the Christian cannot be stopped from behaving like Christ would have them behave regardless of any laws. How should they behave? Loving, kind, gentle, merciful, etc. Those who walk in the spirit will behave in such a way. Those who walk in the flesh will behave selfish,rebellious, self willed, full of strife, argumentative, etc. I’m sure you are aware of these behaviors Brother based on reading your posts but I write them as a testimony to all.

      I hope you can see now where the civil servants can indeed be Christians. In fact we have testimony in the scriptures that some were. And many testimonies afterward of Christians being in the military and behaving as Christ. Foxe’s Book of Martyrs has some in it. This is a book that EVERY Christian should read early in their walk to prepare them to live a life of persecution because we know that “all who would live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution”, amen?

      Blessings,
      Kenny.

      • Dave_L

        Christians cannot follow Jesus and hold the Magistrates office. The Magistrate visits evil with evil, Christians are to render evil to no one but to return only love instead.

        • Kena

          There is a great difference between visiting evil for personal reasons and visiting evil as a civil servant. The civil servant who visits evil does so as the minister of God for justice. I have had many long talks with Jesus about these things, he has given me much knowledge concerning what he expects from the governments of the nations and peoples as well as the responsibilities of the Christians holding such offices as well.

          If the Christian holds his office well and does all justice then he is not in sin to hold such an office. I will say though that few Christians that I know would be able to do this.

          • Dave_L

            The Christians of the Civil War and both World Wars believed this way and as a result brought the war to the Church, Christians killing each other. All the time when Jesus and the Apostles never mingled the Kingdom of God with the office of the Magistrate.

            You cannot ask your attacker if he is attacking you as a Christian, in which case you are a pacifist. Or if he is attacking you as a civilian, in which case you fight back. Jesus and the Apostles never used self-defense but trusted God’s providence, ultimately accepting death over resisting evil.

          • Kena

            Below we see that Paul would have accepted these Magistrates as Christians, had they been willing.
            Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, Almost you persuade me to be a Christian.
            29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only you, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.

            The scripture below is speaking of Caesar’s servants rather than his family.
            Philippians 4:22 All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are of Caesar’s household.

            We see below a civil servant who bears the sword and is also a Christian.
            Acts 16:28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do yourself no harm: for we are all here.
            29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
            30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
            31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, and your house.
            32 And they spoke to him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
            33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
            34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

            Jesus and the Apostles had received charge from God and Christ what their ministry should be so it stands to reason that they would never leave spiritual ministry for a physical ministry.

            Below we see Cornelius a centurion whom God accepts as a Christian.
            Acts 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that fears God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for you into his house, and to hear words of you.
            23 Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brothers from Joppa accompanied him.
            24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
            25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
            26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
            27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
            28 And he said to them, You know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come to one of another nation; but God has showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
            29 Therefore came I to you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent you have sent for me?
            30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
            31 And said, Cornelius, your prayer is heard, and your alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
            32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call here Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he comes, shall speak to you.
            33 Immediately therefore I sent to you; and you have well done that you are come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded you of God.
            34 ¶ Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
            35 But in every nation he that fears him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him.
            36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
            37 That word, I say, you know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
            38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
            39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
            40 Him God raised up the third day, and showed him openly;
            41 Not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
            42 And he commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
            43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whoever believes in him shall receive remission of sins.
            44 ¶ While Peter yet spoke these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
            45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
            46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
            47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
            48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

            I can find more throughout early Church history if you wish Brother. I know of one very interesting and very moving account of a band of soldiers who were all Christians. They fought fearlessly for Caesar until he required them to kill fellow Christians and to offer a sacrifice to his false god. Though these men were valiant and fearless they refused to lift their swords in self defense against their fellow soldiers and they were all martyred in one very memorable day. God was glorified in their lives and in their deaths. If you wish I will look for it Brother.

            Blessings,
            Kenny

          • Dave_L

            There are many examples of Civil servants being saved. But did they remain civil servants? We know Cornelius quit the military and became a pastor. And virtually all of the early church history shows christian’s did not join the military. Only if you can reconcile bearing the cross and the sword at the same time, which no one has been able to do, can you trumpet Christian’s enforcing the sword. We are told to Love, not kill enemies.

  • Trisha Herom

    DAVE L…… NONE OF US ARE LIKE JESUS CHRIST !!! WE ARE SINNERS ALL OF US… BUT WE ARE SAVED BY HIS GRACE !!! THIS COP SHOULD HAVE LEFT THE VERSE ON HIS PATROL CAR !!!!!!!! I AM A CHRISTIAN !!! I DO REALIZE THAT IT IS WRITTEN THAT GOD’S PEOPLE ARE TO BE PERSECUTED FOR HIS SAKE !!! BUT IT STILL MAKES ME VERY ANGRY WHEN ATHIEST,, HOMOSEXUALS,, DICTATE TO US CHRISTIANS HOW WE WILL LIVE !!!!!!! I BOLDLY STAND STRONG AGAINST ALL SATANS WARRIORS WHICH DOES INCLUDE ATHIESTS AND HOMOSEXUALS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL NOT BE TOLD TO SHUT MY MOUTH !!!! I WILL NOT ALLOW SATAN RUN MY LIFE !!!!! JESUS CHRIST IS LORD !!!!

    • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

      Amen! I too will not shut my mouth.* Dave_L* is wrong. He says we are not to fight back. For God and His Truth I will speak and not let Dave_L silence me.

      • Dave_L

        “But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.” (Matthew 5:39–40)

        “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;” (Matthew 5:44)

      • Kena

        Can you share with us why you feel so strongly about this? The reason I ask is that I don’t see any examples of Christians fighting back in the scriptures and even in Church history. I have read maybe 2 accounts of Christians fighting back but have read hundreds of accounts of Christians not fighting to save their lives. I happen to believe that this is an extremely important decision to make. In fact I believe it has eternal ramifications, for many it has been their last trial and for some I’m sure that it cost them their soul.

        However, I’m open minded about it and that is why I ask you these questions.

        • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

          If you are like him . Sorry I have nothing to say to you. Except have a great week end.

          • Kena

            Well I don’t know him and don’t know if I’m like him or not. This is why I asked the questions that I have.

            I see a lot of arguing here and I came hoping for fellowship rather than debate and arguing. It is good for Christians to fellowship and Paul says it is wrong for us to argue and debate one another.

            Blessings Sister,
            Kenny

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            It was really nice until he started saying we are not Christians, He has been giving us a hard time for about four day i think,. I don’t care what he says about me or even what he says about me.God knows me and knows the truth about me. But he was hurting other people and that hurt me. Telling them they are not Christians. He is talking about my Brothers and Sisters in Christ.Jesus never did that to people. I asked to stop. He would not stop. I begged him to stop. Now I am in a fast about him and how I feel about him.If you are a true Christian will you please Pray for me ?? I have never felt this way about anyone. It breaks my heart what he has said to Christians that I love.He has only been on this account for about three months. But he is causing trouble with Christians.Pleas pray that he will stop hurting them. If you will be willing to Pray. Thank You:) Have a great week end.

          • Kena

            Yes Sister, I will pray for all of you. Often a young Christian becomes filled with zeal for the Lord and then this can happen. God wants us to be patient with each other. It can be a real test sometimes to be patient with younger Christians who throw around accusations. I’m like you, I hate to see Christians hurt, as Paul said “who was made to offend and I did not burn with anger?”.

            I teach and share my testimonies and pray for others as well as humble myself to be taught by others, this is fellowship of the Brethren,

            Blessings to your house from mine Sister.
            Your Brother in Christ, Kenny

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Thank you very much.
            Blessings to you and you house as well.
            Your Sister in Christ Kandy

    • Dave_L

      “But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.” (Matthew 5:39–40)

      “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;” (Matthew 5:44)

      “For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:” (1 Peter 2:21–23)

    • Peter Leh

      sure is a lot of yelling….

    • Matthew T. Mason

      All caps is not only against the rules here, it is quite rude.

      Yes, Dave L is not a Christian. He’s a troll and should be ignored above anything else. But you can make that point without shouting.

      • Dave_L

        If anyone can refute what I say, they owe it to me in love and to Christ. I’m not here to do anything but share what the Lord has shared with me. Some of it sounds strange only because it hasn’t been looked into by many. But please correct me if I’m wrong.

        • Matthew T. Mason

          You have already been rebuked. You chose to come in here after the fact and started the same exact thing all over again, even though it had nothing to do with the subject matter. And when that was pointed out, you began to take that morally and biblically superior attitude.

          You are in no way part of the solution. You are part of the problem. Your absolute silence in response to the question of whether you would physically intervene if you witnessed a child being sexually abused shows this.

          As far as I am concerned, you should be banned from posting here. From this moment on, anything you post shall be flagged, as your behavior here is inappropriate, until the mods take the appropriate action. And I shall ask others to do the same.

          • Dave_L

            “Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man’s feet, whose name was Saul.” (Acts 7:57–58)

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Are you comparing yourself to Stephen?

            Keep trolling, pal. It won’t be long.

          • Dave_L

            No….I’m comparing you to his executioners.

    • Kena

      Hi Trisha, I can understand your anger and frustration, both of those are my weak points and I have to wrestle with my flesh to keep it under control at times.

      I thought you might not be aware of this scripture (1 John 2:6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.) when I read where you said none of us are like Christ. The point is that you may be right but that is not what God expects from us. God expects us to walk as Christ walked, meaning to live our lives as he did.

      Blessings
      Kenny

  • Matthew T. Mason

    If you do not think Dave L should be posting here, indicate it by flagging his posts until the mods take action. I do not, and so I am.

    • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

      I agree with that. They need to stop him.

      • Dave_L

        On what basis? Speaking the truth in a “Christian” forum?

        • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

          Because you are hurting Christians.You are not speaking truth. You are causing trouble and hurting Christians. They need to stop you. You have become so cold you can’t even see what you are doing.
          Shalom to all the Christians you are hurting.

          • prinefan

            Khriztians never hurt anyone…………….do they?

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            He says he is a Christian. But you might be right . Maybe he is a Khriztian. Thank you letting me know that:) How sweet of you 🙂 Again than you (^_^)

          • prinefan

            I was referring to the damage that Khriztianity and every other wingnut, screwball and crackpot religion………..and they all are, does.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Thank you sweets 🙂 You are just so kind:) May God Bless you 🙂 Thank you (^_^) <

          • prinefan

            god is as real as the skunk apes that dance and fart rainbows on my lawn. You produce proof of any gods and i’ll produce my skunk apes.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Well little Pumpkin you say that to God when you face Him 🙁

          • prinefan

            Give some names of those you know has faced him. Mindless stupidity. People like you are a danger and threat to normal people. If you can be convinced to believe anything, you can be convinced to do anything.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Well little Pumpkin Time will tell who was the real Mindless stupid ones are. God Bless:)

          • prinefan

            Time will tell nothing. Dead is dead. You are a victim of hereditary religion, a version of the fairy tale that happened to be passed down in the area you live. What if you had been born in one of many areas of the world where different versions of the fairy tale are handed down from one generation to the next? Can’t you see that each society makes up their own gods and stories to support them, that it’s all made up, that it’s not real?

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            May God Bless you with His truth and set you free.May He shine His light on the path in life you travel. May He lead you to the path less traveled.

          • Joseph O Morrow

            One thing that prinefan is right about: The dead ARE DEAD. The Bible says so! If Christ never actually died, then we are still in our sins-unpaid-for!

            The going-to-heaven/going-to-hell myth is pagan to-the-core and is NOT taught AT ALL in the Bible. The REAL hope is in our OWN eventual resurrection-from-death just as Jesus Himself rose FROM DEATH! Jesus didn’t ascend to heaven again until forty days after His resurrection. He is now only temporarily in heaven until He comes back. Then He will set up the Kingdom of God right here on Planet Earth. That is why He taught us to pray, “Thy Kingdom COME”!

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Okay

          • Kena

            Hello prinefan, I have met God, it was 35 yeas ago. When a person comes into the presence of Almighty God they are forever changed. If you ever meet him you will be changed as well.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            I hate what you are

        • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

          DO NOT EVER RESPOND TO ME AGAIN!!!!!!!! You are the first person I have ever hated. May help me to forgive you. I have never hated anyone in my life. Until you:(

          • Dave_L

            “If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?” (1 John 4:20)

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            I said to you. DO NOT EVER RESPOND to me again. Learn some respect. You are nothing but a bully!

          • Dave_L

            I will respond as long as you respond. If you do not approve, stop responding to me.

      • supernova

        I too agree Dave_L should be stopped. Now would be great.

  • Looking Glass

    In a free society it is essential to keep religion and state completely separated.

  • prinefan

    Gov.’t property is not an advertising billboard for any religion. When our motto was changed in 1956 it was unconstitutional and the courts should rule accordingly.

  • FoJC_Forever

    Those who use mankind’s law to promote the Word of God will cave to the threat of said same law. The judicial system of the USA is contrary to God’s Will and Word. Anyone who protects the right of a person to murder a baby does not care about Justice or Freedom. Christians need to be aware that those who wear a police uniform, or any number of law enforcement agents who don’t wear an official uniform, are not good simply because they represent US law.

    Christians will be investigated as criminals for following Jesus (the) Christ and not giving in to false, officially recognized false religious doctrines. Perilous times are peaking, as we get closer to the End.

    Follow Jesus, find Wisdom.

  • Nofun

    The constitution wins again over Christianity. Makes me a proud American.

    • Nidalap

      Now, now! Gloating is likely to make folks think you’re Nofun! 🙂

      • Nofun

        I am.

  • respectourdifferences

    No surprise at all. it’s amazing that there are still people who do not understand that public entities are not allowed to promote or endorse a particular religious view.

  • Nidalap

    Isn’t it nice that we’ve advanced far enough that folks can finally follow the Constitution by the Founder’s intent? I mean, they obviously didn’t know what their own intent was or they wouldn’t have had Christian church services in the government buildings and things like that. Luckily folks today are bright enough to ignore the Founders’ every action to the contrary in order to tell us what they REALLY meant! (It’s sad that this is necessary but, yes, sarcasm)

    • Nofun

      Christian churches in govt building are for those who use them. Their presence doe not mean the govt endorses Christianity as that would be against the constitution. Anyone who believes in religious freedom should want state and church separate … the founders certainly did..