Student Who Played Dead in Oregon College Shooting Heard Gunman’s Words to Christians

BoylanROSEBURG, Ore. — A female student whose life was spared when she played dead after being shot in the back Thursday during the Umpqua Community College massacre says that she heard the gunman’s words targeting Christians as he carried out his assault.

Stacy Boylan, the father of Anastasia Boylan, who was struck in the back and is being treated at a local hospital, relayed the story to reporters on Friday.

“From what I understood, what she said is he shot the professor point blank—one shot, killed him,” he recalled. “Others were injured.”

Boylan said that the gunman, who is identified as 26-year-old Christopher Harper Mercer, then declared, “I’ve been wanting to do that for a long time” and let out a laugh that “was not human.”

Mercer then ordered students on the ground and began asking each student if they were a Christian.

“This man had enough time—I don’t know how much time elapsed before he was able to stand there and start asking people one by one what their religion was,” Boylan explained. “‘Are you a Christian?’ he would ask them. ‘And if you’re a Christian, stand up.'”

“And they would stand up, and he said, ‘Good, because you’re a Christian, you’re going to see God in just about one second,'” he continued. “And then he shot and killed them. And he kept going down the line doing this to people.”

  • Connect with Christian News

Boylan said that his daughter played dead as she lay injured in order to save her life. He states that the gunman ordered her to stand, but she refused to move, and so he asked a student next to her whether Boylan was dead or alive. The student replied that they didn’t know, and Mercer moved on.

Boylan said that his daughter feared that Mercer might see the cross tattoo on her neck.

She was transported to a local hospital and underwent surgery to remove a bullet near her spine.

According to reports, Mercer left a note behind stating that he felt the world was against him. He lamented the course of his life, but remarked that he would be “welcomed in Hell and embraced by the devil.”

One unnamed source told People Magazine that Mercer was interested in Satanism and had a manifesto to “serve darkness.”

“The guy did this strictly for satanic purposes,” they stated. “He did it to become a god in hell. He wants to be evil. That is his goal, to serve Satan.”


A special message from the publisher...

Dear Reader, our hearts are deeply grieved by the ongoing devastation in Iraq, and through this we have been compelled to take a stand at the gates of hell against the enemy who came to kill and destroy. Bibles for Iraq is a project to put Arabic and Kurdish audio Bibles into the hands of Iraqi and Syrian refugees—many of whom are illiterate and who have never heard the gospel.Will you stand with us and make a donation today to this important effort? Please click here to send a Bible to a refugee >>

Print Friendly
  • Mark Bouckaert

    Another religious nut job.

    • Draco Morrison

      Read the article

      • Mark Bouckaert

        His own religion. He wanted to be a god in hell.

        • Draco Morrison

          He was religious, and he chose hatred and misery. Do you blame him and his religion? Or do you blame all religious, including those that choose love, including the victims

          • Mark Bouckaert

            I simply say the worst of the murderers are the ones that have religious convictions. Whether that be a satanist, muslim, or christian. It becomes something that they are willing to die for. Believe they are right and not afraid to die.

      • Tmaximus

        The first person he killed was his writing teacher whom was Jewish. He did tell Christians who said they were, they’d be meeting their maker…..was he lying?

    • bowie1

      Actually he said he was not religious, just spiritual, and had been looking for a woman involved in witchcraft. He was for all intensive purposes an atheist.

      • Mark Bouckaert

        That is religious. They said in the article he wanted to be a god in hell.

        • bowie1

          He certainly was no Christian since that was his target of hate. He despised organized religion which is the attitude of anti-theists.

          • Mark Bouckaert

            Evil people corrupt everything for their own purposes. That makes me sick to think about it.

          • Tmaximus

            nope…his writings were very concise, he said he was spiritual & contemptuous of organized religion aka churches full of hypocrites in the pews. His hatred was also made very clear in black & white writings …women who didn’t have sex with him. He idolized Elliot Rodger’s gun slaughter, Nazis, white supremacists and the Christian terrorists in Ireland. His first kill was his Jewish writing teacher then the students in that class.

      • Tmaximus

        nope…being spiritual = agnostic.

  • Robin Gall Schneider

    I don’t know that “normal” people can ever understand this type of evil. We are praying for the families of those who have died, for those who are hurt, those who are hurting and confused, and for all those who need the peace that only the Lord can give. Thank you to those who serve our communities by placing themselves in harms way in order to protect those they serve – our prayers are also with you. There is never a word or phrase that can make this type of thing “better”, that can make those close to a killer that are left behind understand the pain they went through and the pain he sought to cause. God knows that pain and He can comfort that pain for you. This one man’s desire for a trip to hell became God’s tool to send people home to be with Him. And now there’s an eternity in hell for him to know that.

  • John

    He had that much time because nobody else was armed.

    • Richard Williams

      If everyone had guns, would that make it better? All it takes is a little bit of anger and someone decides to use it and there you go someone’s dead.

      • JohninRedding

        Richard, you don’t really believe that, do you? Not everyone wants guns. Most people wanting to get a CCP are honest, civil minded. They want it for their own protection not to get in fights and shoot the other guy. Who is it the ultimately stops situations like this- someone with a gun.

        • Richard Williams

          If you trust people with guns, you are ignorant of the nature of human beings. Yes, I believe that because it is people with guns who get themselves in desperate situations that use them. The world is not safe with more guns because human beings can not be trusted! I am thankful that I know God and that I know that guns are not the only means of stopping people. Are you a Christian? If you are, you are an ignorant one who does not trust God as much as you should and you are relying on the ways of the world than that of God. What would God say? He does say something already about things like this in case you didn’t know! This is God’s word, “For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ” (2 Corinthians 10:3-5). If you don’t think you have enough power in that situation to say the right thing, perhaps you should consider what you are focusing on at that point of time something like this happens. Another thing to consider is that God does not promise that He will always save believers from death at the hands of those who hold something against them. God actually cares more about the salvation of the shooter in that situation than He does whether or not a believer dies, believe it or not. If you don’t, then perhaps you don’t have the heart of God inside of you and you should consider where your faith is at. If you think this life is better than the next one, you are very ignorant.

          • Mark Gilman

            Your argument against guns has no biblical basis, but your opinion is yours to share.

          • Richard Williams

            I just gave you biblical basis, but you are blind obviously. I didn’t even mention where Jesus says that those who live by the sword die by the sword. This is not just my opinion. Your heart in this matter is not in line with God’s and you should be ashamed.

          • Mark Gilman

            No, Richard. Your use of Christ’s “live by the sword” verse is misplaced–and those who arm themselves for protection do so for good reason. Not ashamed of my position, but embarrassed that you would associate guns/weapon use with one’s Christianity. Again, your opinion. Calling me blind-nice touch on your part.

          • Richard Williams

            How is it a misuse? It relates directly! People like you try to justify arming yourselves with passages like this, when the passage is saying the direct opposite! How many swords did the disciples even have? Two? It was hardly even enough to defend themselves! And then when Peter used the sword, Jesus rebuked Him! And he said exactly what I told you already! You should be embarrassed that you would associate gun/weapon use with Christianity considering the passages that I cited from Scripture! Not my opinion. You are clearly blind. I think you are blinded by the ways of the world – exactly the kind of thing Paul was referring to. Does not surprise me considering that many of today’s nations were built on bloodshed and don’t want to admit it.

          • afchief

            You are wrong and taking scripture out of context. When Jesus rebuked Peter it was because Peter was trying to stop the soldiers from arresting Him. He didn’t realize he was trying to stop the death of Jesus for all of mankind. Jesus did say that those who live by the sword will die by the sword. Did He say it was wrong? No! We Christians who served and are serving in the military know that if we defend this country their is a possibility of dying. Fulfilling what Jesus said, in laying ones life down for another.

            Remember, the Bible also tells us that Jesus said: A man who does not own a sword should sell his cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

            The sword is an offensive weapon.

            Nowhere do I see the Bible saying that we should not protect ourselves from evil.

          • Richard Williams

            Jesus would not have replied those who live by the sword die by the sword if he was only rebuking Peter because of what Jesus was about to do. Jesus did say it was wrong to fight back against your enemies who wrong you. Again, you are being ignorant. Turn the other cheek meant exactly what Jesus meant that it did. I feel sorry for those who serve in the military because they are deceived into thinking that they are doing something positive. All that you are doing is increasing the violence in the world by what you do because there will always be people who will want to fight back. This is one of the reasons in the Old Testament that God told the Israelite people to wipe out every single person when they were going into the land reserved for them because He knew that one way or another that if anyone was left behind it would end up being a snare to them.

            And I already referred to Luke. He told them that two swords was enough. That was hardly enough for them to put up any kind of offense! Why did Jesus tell them to get swords? Jesus told them directly the reason. So they Jesus would be counted among the transgressors, although we know very well that Jesus was not a transgressor of anything! It is very interesting if you look beyond that Messianic prophetic quote and look at the next part of it because it says that Jesus bore the sins of many and made intercession for the transgressors!

            The Bible says that we are meant to good to our enemies so that it will place a burning coal on their head. By responding in violence, you are doing nothing to encourage guilt on their part so that they may be lead to repentance. You are only encouraging them to have more hatred towards what you represent – by acting in this way you are not serving God at all!

          • afchief

            It is Christians like you who are hypocrites. The very freedom you enjoy today was provide for you by millions of Christians who died for your freedom. America was founded by Christians going to war against Britain to live free and worship without government interference. Yet you bad mouth them and condemn them for giving their life for you so you can spout your hypocrisy. It is Christians like you who give us other Christians a bad name. Who have NO understanding of the Word of God and take it out of context. Jesus said that the attorneys perverted the Law and made it into something that no one could live by, he cursed them for it, he drove the Money Changers with a bit more than harsh language and the tax collectors he called extortionists. Obviously he a problem with these guys so why did he even speak out??? So I guess turning over the money changers tables and driving them out with a whip was not resisting evil???? And just why did he tell his followers to sell their cloaks and by swords if they didn’t have one???

            Flash back to ancient Isreal and you find the People of Israel stoning the tax collector to death and revolting against the House of Judah, the then current ruling house. I think it was Jeramiah that said that Israel was Justified because Judah had created an abomination. And I guess Joshua was not God’s man because he destroyed cities.

            Of course you might say that that was old Law but you really need to read Jesus’ words as stated in Matthew 5 if you want to know what Jesus said about conforming to the Law and the Prophets.

          • Richard Williams

            You are full of deception. The reason I have freedom to follow Jesus Christ is because I was given the Holy Spirit once I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour. If that included following Jesus to my death, that would be the smallest thing I could even do in response to that freedom I have been given. Nobody has died for me accept Jesus. To say anything else is pretty much blasphemy whether or not you want to acknowledge what you and a lot of others are doing or not.

            It is Christians like you who give Christianity a bad name all over the world by thinking that you can force your beliefs on other people through the use of weapons. You are deceived and a stumbling block to the spread of the gospel.

            You are the one deceived about the word of God and you have not been able to demonstrate that I am the one deceived. You are the one taking it out of context.

            Sure Jesus resisted evil, but did He do it with violence, no! You claim that His using of the whips was violence against other human beings, but you have no evidence that He even used His right to use violence like He could have. Your ignorance of Scripture is evident or else you would realize that the Messiah committed no violence (Isaiah 53:9). Look that up. And I already told you why Jesus told them to get swords, but you are more interested in pushing your position, obviously, than listening to the truth being told to you.

            And you also take the whole Old Testament out of context if you are trying to apply its principles today. Do you even realize that God punished Israel if they went to war, but were in grievous sins themselves? If you really think God is behind war nowadays, you are pretty ignorant on how steeped in sin all nations are, including those in North America. As for what Jesus said about the Law, it is true that Jesus maintained that the commandments were still for today, however, that does not mean He was saying that the punishment for breaking the commandments was the same. If so, He would not have died for the sin of anyone! Christians are under a new covenant which is not confined to any particular nation, but everyone from every nation is extended welcome into the family of God! Your presuppositions are not based on the truth of Scripture, but on a cultural mentality that is ignorant of the ways of God.

          • afchief

            You are totally wacked!!! Bye! You are not worth my time. It is quite apparent you are a hypocrite and have NO understanding of the word of God. I will not waste my time anymore!!!

          • Richard Williams

            No, you have no realistic response to give that is why you are running away. You are making an emotional appeal which is not an argument. Me a hypocrite? I am not the one claiming to know the word of God, but who can not find anything in Scripture to support their argument.

          • afchief

            You are a hypocrite!!! The very blanket of freedom you live under was provided to you by Christians who died in previous wars.

            “…[government] is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil.” (Romans 13:4)

            God has given the state the power of life and death over its subjects in order to maintain order. Government also has the right to protect its people from evil by wielding the same “sword” in warfare.

            God’s command was against murder, not killing. Nowhere does the Bible say that believers should not join the military and thus, should not participate in defending their country. Numbers 25:8-13 is one of many Biblical accounts where killing was required to eradicate sin. However, the bottom line is that while the God of the Bible is a righteous judge, He is also a God of love and mercy Who detests the shedding of innocent human blood.

            Defending innocent lives is justifiable.

          • Dave_L

            In the Old Testament God sends all war as judgement on wicked people. And since the New Testament says He controls all things after the council of His own will, today’s wars as well. Wicked people = war as judgement. And not just one side either, but all who are involved.

          • Richard Williams

            Christians who died in previous wars have done absolutely nothing in helping the gospel being spread! You are out of your mind! If anything, it has hindered it! You can not force people to be Christians! We have a bunch of people who really don’t have a clue what the real gospel is because of people who have falsely claimed to be fighting wars in the name of Christ!

            Romans 13 was written to members of the church! And God is talking about how SECULAR authority can punish Christians or anyone for doing wrong, but it does not give Christians any right to bear the sword!

            You should read the original English translation of what John the Baptist told the soldiers in Luke 3. The original KJV says, “Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely, and be content with your wages”. Not only that there is the 2 Corinthians 10 as already mentioned as well as Jesus warning that those who live by the sword will die by the sword. As well as Jesus telling people to love their enemies and then Paul again telling people to not take revenge against their enemies! You forsake all clear passages for the ones you take out of context!

            And you act really ignorant of human lives. There is no such thing as an innocent person that is any more innocent than anyone else – the reality is that everyone in the world is guilty of wrong and the U.S. is guilty of killing many people who were not carrying weapons!

          • afchief

            Let me ask you these questions; with the rise of Hitler, should America have stayed out of the war? Or should we have done what we did and helped to stop the takeover of the world by the madman?

            Should we allow hundreds of thousands of Muslims to immigrate to our country?

            Should the USA fight against radical Islam?

          • Dave_L

            God controls all, including Hitler. He visits wicked people with wicked rulers and war. There is not a single war in the Old Testament that didn’t involve God punishing sin.

            “When people live so that they please the Lord, even their enemies will make peace with them.” (Proverbs 16:7)

          • Ax2root

            We live in the New Covenant.

            God is not wrathful with people….Jesus came to save the world, not judge it.

            HOWEVER, people can choose to serve devil and open doors to devil

            DONT BLAME GOD for what devil does

          • Ax2root

            NO GOD DOES NOT control evil

            GOD gave humans authority over the earth in Genesis 1:26 and reiterated in Psalms.

            Humans choose to agree with The Holy Spirit or the devil.

            Our free will decision

          • Dave_L

            Islam?
            “Luther believed that “the wrath of God had brought Muhammad and the Pope into the world”…..”When the Greeks despised His Word, He took it away and gave them the Turk and Muhammad. To us Germans and to the Italians, he gave us the Pope and with him all sorts of horrible things.”

            Samuele Bacchiocchi, P. D. (n.d.). Islam and The Papacy in Prophecy.

          • Ax2root

            Luther was wrong.

            God does NOT give evil

          • Richard Williams

            The U.S. did nothing about the rise of Hitler until he threatened them. And then, it is very convenient for people to call him a “madman” when Europe had a long history of wars over land long before that based on various justifications. I don’t think any of those justifications were more “sane” than the other.

            I also think it is very convenient for other countries to point out at what Hitler did when other countries still use their military to advance their interests in other places.

            Should you allow Muslims? How about should you allow atheists? HIndus? Buddhists? Sikhs? No? Just because you have not started wars with them?

            There are ways to fight against radical Islam and then there are ways to actually create more radical Islam. The U.S. did a mighty fine job of helping to create more radical Islam when it decided to bomb Iraq and ISIS was created in response. The U.S. has decided to meddle in other countries and kill people who were not involved directly in conflict and if you think people are not going to be vengeful in response, you are pretty naive. The U.S. has cause more damage in other countries than other countries have ever caused in the U.S. If any one should be called a hypocrite, it is countries like the U.S. that continue to label others as “terrorists” while turning a blind eye to their own countries actions.

            There has always been a lot of false propaganda being thrown around to try to justify war and your comments are the normal part of it that is constantly heard (along with the normal twisting of Bible passages for justification).

          • Ax2root

            Islam is a lie.

            Do you agree?

          • Richard Williams

            There are a lot of lies out there. And how does the Bible say Christians are to fight lies? It says, “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.” – 2 Corinthians 10:4-5

          • Richard Williams

            People who want to use the military are not relying on divine power. They don’t realize that the battle is not against flesh and blood. If you want things to change, people to change, weapons are not going to do it. It is foolishness to think otherwise.

          • Ax2root

            Still waiting Richard.

            Do you agree that Islam is a lie?

          • Ax2root

            Do you agree that Islam is a lie?

            Yes or no?

          • afchief

            So if all Christians thought like you and interpreted the word like you, American would have NEVER been formed. Hitler, would have ruled the world and Christians would be hiding underground somewhere. All Christians would be pacifists.

          • Richard Williams

            For a person like me who is of Native Canadian descent, I would gladly accept that both Canada and U.S. not be formed in the way that it was. I would have gladly accepted that if Europeans were going to come over here with a message, that it would be of the true gospel – not a false gospel that thought that by forcing religion on people that you would be “converting” them.

            If Christians were pacifists, I am not sure that the climate in the world would be as such that a Hitler would even come to existence.

            And the reality is if someone was to some decent research, like I have, they would realize that before the Roman emperor Constantine had his influence, Christians were pacifist. The early documents overwhelmingly present that perspective.

          • afchief

            Wow! You are out there is liberal la la land. Our Second Amendment exists to guarantee the people arms of similar type and quality as used by a military organization, as in the extreme case where that Amendment need be deployed that is exactly what those bearing them will face.

            The founders wrote this into our Constitution because they had just survived exactly that situation, they knew darn well that it might happen again, and they were well-aware that the only reason they did not all wind up dead, imprisoned or hanged is that they had their guns — the equal of those facing them — and refused to surrender them.

            The American people do not want war, but there appear to be plenty of law-abiding and patriotic Americans who will not go silently.

            All Representatives, Senators and The President took an oath of office when they were sworn in that included defending The Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

            There appear to be a few Representatives who understood what they swore to do and upon what they swore their oaths.

          • Richard Williams

            No you are out there in terms of being wrangled in by a human thought pattern that has nothing to do with what God would have for you.

            Your “Second Amendment” is a document written by men, not by God, yet you treat it like it is the word of God and that it has some kind of ultimate authority for your life.

            Your “founders” were drawn into an age old pattern of human beings trying to deal with things with their own human power rather than by relying on God.

            There are a lot of American people who blindly sit by while their government gets them involved in all kinds of conflict that they have no business being involved in militarily.

            This idea of defending “The Constitution” is putting a document above the Bible in terms of authority and leaves you in a precarious position before God. You would lay aside His words for the sake of a man-made document. You should be ashamed of yourself. You are following in the footsteps of selfish men, not in the footsteps of the sacrificial God, Jesus Christ. You have the gall to say that I am being anti- Christian. You don’t know what you speak of.

          • afchief

            To the mentally disordered Left (you), anyone who believes in Judeo-Christianity, capitalism, Constitutional government, individual liberty, property rights, a national defense second to none, secure borders, a balanced budget, fiscal sanity, and the limited federal government as envisioned by the Founding Fathers, is considered a “crazy.”

            Take your liberal garbage and stay in liberal utopia of Canada.

          • Richard Williams

            Anyone who resorts to that kind of argument (like calling someone mentally disordered) is not speaking through the Holy Spirit. You should realize that insults aren’t going to win you this argument if you claim to be a Christian.

            And you point out to one of the problems right in what you say above, you elevate “the Founding Fathers” above THE FATHER! You talk about a “Judeo-Christianity” envisioned by them and not a Christianity envisioned by THE FATHER! Your final authority is not God, but a group of men! What does the Bible say about people gathering together a group of men to hear what their itching ears want to hear? There will be a time when people will not put up with sound teachings, but will gather together teachers to hear what they want to hear. That is exactly what people like you are doing!

            You are ignorant to the extreme. You have no idea what I believe about other issues, yet you call me “liberal”. You are shameful in the eyes of God! You do not know what the Bible teaches, yet you try to claim that you do. The Bible teaches “cpaitalism”, but it also teaches “socialism” (ie. people selling their possessions and making sure every one was equally taken care of in terms of their needs)! So what are you going to deal with that? I suppose you will ignore it just like you do when it comes to God’s concern for the entire world and not just one nation like the U.S.! In God’s kingdom, there are no borders. You are boosting up a humanly kingdom, not God’s – you do not have the purpose of a Christian. The Bible does not also talk about there being a “Constitutional government” based on the whims of man, but a kingdom based on God’s teachings and ruled by Him! The Bible also does not talk about “a national security second to none” either because in God’s economy, He is the one who fights the battles and wins them! If people followed God, we would not need a government like we have, but what God envisions will not be fulfilled until Jesus comes back. In the meantime, I suppose there will be people who will continue to be small-minded like you and will not be able to grasp the bigger picture of what is going on in the world.

            I am quite happy to live in a place that has more individual freedom that the U.S. for the very reason I don’t have to put up with garbage like yours. You can have your guns and your crime – I don’t want it.

            Canada is definitely no better than the U.S.,it has different problems than the whole gun issue, but I am glad, at least, that it is not overwrought with people with the kind of mindset like yours. You are a hateful person – I hope God changes that in you.

          • afchief

            I don’t even read your garbage. Just one word for you;

            HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Richard Williams

            Hypocrite? ?

          • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

            I definitely agree with you. The fact is every time the U.S. starts bombing another country, the fallout is increased terrorism. If the U.S. would stop all of these invasions, target bombings and other military campaigns our budget wouldn’t be in the mess it is in right now. Also, many scholars believe that ISIS’s rise is the result of U.S. interventionism. Many even predicted this before the war in Iraq took place. As said, its better to lay down the weapons and use the sword of the spirit. God bless you.

          • Ax2root

            But his posts are telling and revealing. Is this the problem with weak Christianity that does not RIGHTLY UNDERSTAND The Word of God?

            60 % of Christians are NOT EVEN REGISTERED TO VOTE,!!!

            ” give to Caesers what is Caesers.
            There are sins of OMISSION and commission.

          • afchief

            Yep, you are right!

          • Ax2root

            Do you bind and cast out the demons you come across?

            Jesus moved in that power…and Christians are to ALSO move in the power of Christ.

            Would you deny Christians self defense and defense of other weapons BECAUSE their faith is NOT to the level of Jesus the Christ?

          • Richard Williams

            If you are using the weapons of this world to try to defend yourself, you are not using the weapons that God has given Christians to use. Plain and simple. And if you think that by preserving your life for this world it is actually a “self-defense”, you are pretty ignorant about God’s goodness for those who die knowing Him.

          • Ax2root

            So because some Christians are not living in the faith to protect their spouses or children or selves by binding and casting out demons you would DENY them the CONSTITUTIONAL right to bear arms and the God given right to defend the self and others with a weapon OTHER than faith?

          • Richard Williams

            “The CONSTITUTIONAL right”? What is that? Another person trying to elevate a man-made document over God’s word? Who gave God anyone this right that you are talking about? What I read in Scripture is that Christians are not to use the weapons of this world to resolve conflict. SO you don’t believe in God’s word in this matter, I suppose. What other parts of God’s word are there that you don’t like?

          • Ax2root

            The Constitution happens to be based on the biblical principle of

            ” LOVE OTHERS as you love yourself”

            Do you deny there is a biblical principle of resisting the enemy?

            Do you deny there is a biblical principle of protecting others.

            Better go read the RIGHTLY DIVIDED Word of God and allow The Holy Spirit to guide you…and not mans ideas

          • Ax2root

            Richard ,do you agree that Islam is a lie?

          • Emily

            The Bible clearly states that people have not only the right, but the duty to defend others. To stand by and watch others being shot, when you could have the opportunity to stop the murderer makes you, biblically, an accessory to the murder.

          • Dave_L

            Please quote Bible references.

          • Emily

            In defense of self-defense (which includes defense of others): Ex 22
            explains the right to self-defense in the case of a thief breaking in; I
            Samuel has David slaying Goliath for the defense of the whole nation;
            Psalm 144 David writes,“Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth
            my hands to war, and my fingers to fight;” Nehemiah 4:14 reads, “Do not
            be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and
            fight for your
            brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes;” Psalm 82:4 “Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked;” Judges 5:24-27 states that Jael was a “blessed” woman for killing Sisera.

            Verses specifically speaking to the duty of others in keeping people safe: Ps 82:4 would work here as well (see above); Ezekiel 33:6 “But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet,
            and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person
            from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will
            require from the watchman’s hand;” Deuteronomy 22:8 states that if someone falls from your roof because you didn’t put the mandates fence around it, you are liable for that death; Exodus 21: 29-31 states that if you have an animal (an ox in this instance) that is a known threat to people and it then kills someone you are deemed negligent and are to be put to death.

            There is a reason that God commands the death penalty for murder: life is important to God. Man was created in His image and to destroy it is to play God, to deem what is worthy for life and what is worthy for death. Life is to be preserved at any cost, and even if that cost is a life. To shot 1 man to safe another is acceptable to God because it preserves life not destroys it. I absolutely agree there is a time for martyrdom, but that is when your own life is being threatened for the sake of God. You have no right to “martyr” others.

          • Dave_L

            God requires a different ethic from us under the New Testament. Not that God has changed, but his plan for believers has. We follow Jesus’ teachings in the Sermon on the Mount. The rest of New Testament ethics are based on it. Since Calvary, we only return good for evil. And never resort to hostile vengeance. We cannot love our enemies and kill them.

          • Emily

            So you’re saying that God no longer values life? Stopping a gunman is not vengeance, it is a life-saving tactic. And anyone who thinks that Jesus was a pacifist is forgetting His use of name-calling, and most importantly His fashioning a whip from cords and driving people from the temple. This wasn’t even self-defense, this was for defilement! The only reason Jesus didn’t defend Himself from crucifixion is because that’s what He came to do; defense would have been self-defeating.

            To say that defense is wrong is to devalue human life. Life has value or it doesn’t, but you can’t claim it does and do nothing to preserve it. And no, God does not require a new ethic; Jesus Himself said that He didn’t abolish the law: the law requires the preservation of life except in instances where God requires the death penalty.

          • Ax2root

            Self defense and defense of others is NOT ” hostile vengeance”

            It is loving others AS yourself.

          • Richard Williams

            If you are not willing to give up your life for the sake of others than that makes you an accessory to selfishness and it would be ironic because someone who claims to be a Christian and acts that way is not doing themselves a favour before God. And it seems like you have already made up your mind that your life is more worth saving than the shooter – that is a crock. Nobody has ever demonstrated that they are more worth saving than anyone else.

            And you also demonstrate a serious lack of sense in the ways of God. You think the only way to stop someone is with a gun. Your mind has no comprehension of reality as far as this point is concerned. You need to learn some things about conflict resolution. I am not sure what God will have to put you through to learn it, but any stubbornness is not going to make the path easy.

          • Ax2root

            Conflict resolutions?

            Are you serious??!!!!

            Demon possessed Islamists and other criminals are not stopped by ” conflict resolution”

          • Richard Williams

            Ax2root – you are pretty ignorant about human beings in the world, aren’t you? Listening to you, I would think that nobody could ever become a Christian because everyone is a selfish sinner. It’s too bad that you can not be objective and listen to yourself.

            You definitely need to learn more about dealing with conflict. I suppose that you would also argue with God that doing good to your enemies will never work, that it will not ever heap burning coals on their head (ie. lead to guilt). Why don’t you argue with God for awhile? That is essentially what this really is coming down to. You would rather rely on human ways to deal with conflict rather than God’s ways.

          • Ax2root

            Jesus NEVER allowed anyone to touch a hair on his head.l.UNTIL it was time for Him as GODS WILL for Him to go to the cross FOR US.

            You are the one denying the facts. Christians are to do LIKEWISE as Jesus did.

            But you deny the fact that MOST Christians are not healing the sick m raising the dead, curing the lepers and restoring sight to the blind in Jesus name

            So you would deny them the right to defend themselves and others with whatever means is needed to ” resist the devil and he SHALL flee”

          • Dave_L

            Very well put! I am interested in the two daggers (swords) serving as props to draw attention leading to Jesus’ arrest. It really makes sense, since he rebuked Peter for using one of them on an enemy. Great post!

          • Ax2root

            Hi AFchief!!

            Self defense and defense of others is not even living by the sword …much evil had been AVOIDED by demonically possessed people knowing they will face opposition,

            I think I heard that 94% of mass murders have occurred in GUN FREE ZONES,!! Which are TERRORIST MAGNETS

          • afchief

            I agree!

          • Justin Mansfield

            Wow you are so off its depressing…. you buy a gun to protect yourself now you are all of a sudden living by the sword? That doesn’t even make sense. If a cop was arresting my child and I try to shoot him THEN YES THAT’S A PROBLEM. You are so off context and trying to mock other Christians with your ignorance is the only embarrassing thing about this conversation. This is why people have a problem with religion even when it tries to say the right things people like you take it to the extreme and focus on a single verse and say and do stupid things. You need to grow up and think deeply before speaking

          • Richard Williams

            If you need a gun to protect yourself then that would seem like you don’t believe in Jesus. You are so off that it is depressing for you. I am thankful that I trust God for my life regardless of whether I live or die! What you are saying would make sense if you claimed to be an atheist, but otherwise it makes absolutely no sense at all!

            When someone tries to argue that you are off context without having any contextual arguments to present in response, then that should be very good evidence that your point of view is very tenuous.

            If you are acting like you think you know why people have a problem with religion, I can tell you are blind and are being deceived. Many people blame religion for war if you have not been paying attention to life, but I think you are blind to what is going on in the world around you. I think you have a very self-centered view. I think, though, it is that kind of self-centered view that leads to war more so than religion.

            You are not saying the right things, you are saying things that you have learned from a warped perspective that really is not based on the example of Scripture. People like you take verses out of context and say and do stupid things as a result. All people need to grow in maturity, but especially in this area, you need to grow up and think more deeply before you speak yourself. All I can hear from you are arguments that you have learned to repeat, it seems, rather than from a perspective of really knowing what the word of God says!

          • Ax2root

            Self self self defense and defense of others is NOT” living by the sword”

          • Richard Williams

            If you are using the weapons of this world to try to reconcile conflict then you are “living by the sword” – that is exactly what that phraseology means.

          • Ax2root

            False.

          • Emily

            God allows self-defense for the same reason He requires the death penalty: justice and safety. God protects man from evildoers by ridding us of them with capital punishment and self-defense. To steal life is an attack on God’s image-bearers, and therefore God requires the harshest of punishments: that murderers die. To not try to protect oneself or one’s neighbor places makes one just as guilty as the murderer. The same was true of rape: God required that a woman yell out (a defense tactic) otherwise she could be charged with adultery. In other words, if you don’t fight back, you are guilty of the same crime. Allowing someone to die is the same as killing them yourself.

            As to your argument that those who carry guns don’t “trust God,” I’d refer you to Nehemiah 4:11-20 (particularly verses 14 & 20). There Nehemiah equates fighting for yourself, family, and neighbors as God fighting for them. That is because God gives man the ability to protect, that is how you show love to your neighbor.

            Nehemiah 4:11-20
            11 And our adversaries said, They shall not know, neither see, till we come in the midst among them, and slay them, and cause the work to cease.
            12 And it came to pass, that when the Jews which dwelt by them came, they said unto us ten times, From all places whence ye shall return unto us they will be upon you.
            13 Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their
            spears, and their bows.
            14 And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses.
            15 And it came to pass, when our enemies heard that it was known unto us, and God had brought their counsel to nought, that we returned all of us to the wall, every one unto his work.
            16 And it came to pass from that time forth, that the half of my servants
            wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears,
            the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons; and the rulers were
            behind all the house of Judah.
            17 They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon.
            18 For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded. And he that sounded the trumpet was by me.
            19 And I said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the
            people, The work is great and large, and we are separated upon the wall, one far from another.
            20 In what place therefore ye hear the sound of the trumpet, resort ye thither unto us: our God shall fight for us.

          • Richard Williams

            You are taking Nehemiah out of context like most of you kind of people keep misusing Scripture for your position. You are not a Jewish Old Testament believer. God has given you no particular land to protect as a light to the rest of the world because New Testament believers are called to go into the world and spread the gospel everywhere (even to their enemies)! Also, the Jewish believers understood their vulnerable position and realized that they were weak to defend against their enemies and so they were not relying on their own human strength to defend themselves which is the go to response when it comes to human wisdom. As well, I already gave you the mandate for New Testament believers. The biblical passages are quite clear and you choose to ignore it. Is it because you love this life so much in your shortsightedness that you neglect the rewards of the next life when you act in obedience and are willing to give up your life for the sake of others?

            As well, you are totally ignorant about the death penalty. It never was a mandate as people try to argue ( esp. considering that God did not always inflict it) especially in the hands of Christians who should know better because they realize that they deserve death themselves for their sins. Jesus died for sins so that others would not have to. He could have come you judge, but He did not. He came to save. It is arrogant for humans to think that they have the right to punish others for their sins while they themselves are in a state of unrighteousness and God will also judge every secular authority in this regard one day.

            You also take the whole raped women passage out of context as though yelling was the same as violently killing someone in that situation.

          • Emily

            Wow! I didn’t realize just how skewed your vision of the gospel is. Capital punishment was never abolished by Jesus because Jesus didn’t come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. And it is a requirement, “And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death” (Lev. 24:17). The law was always a requirement.

            Paul himself affirms the death penalty here: “If I am a wrongdoer, and have committed anything worthy of
            death, I do not refuse to die; but if none of these things is true of
            which these men accuse me, no one can hand me over to them.” (Acts 25:11), and also affirms God’s appoint of magistrates to carry out capital punishment, “But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for [the government] does not
            bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who
            brings wrath upon the one who practices evil” (Romans 13:4).

          • Richard Williams

            It is always interesting how people try to use an emotional word like “wow” to try to make their argument look better.

            Emily, you do not even know what the law means it seems and you misuse Scripture once again. Since when it the law the same thing as the punishment for breaking the law? It is not! And you seem totally oblivious to your own words. Jesus came to fulfill the law! He came to take the punishment for sins on Himself. That is part of the gospel. Are you sure you know what the gospel is? Are you sure you are ready to go back to the punishment for sins as they are in the Old Testament? If it happened, we would all be dead!

            And you act totally ignorant also of the times in the Old Testament that God did not take the life of people when they committed murder. Remember the first ever murder?

            As for what Paul said, he is acknowledging that all sin deserves death and he is acting very brave, but he knows very well he has not done anything wrong according to the law. There is nothing in what Paul is saying that he wishes death on anyone else who has done anything wrong and that is where you desperately fail morally when it comes to this whole question. Paul understands the grace of God for himself. Do you?

            And Romans 13 Is in the same light. It is written for Christians in regards to their responsibility before the secular government. There is nothing in it that talks about Christransferring taking theverything sword in their own hands and inflicting punishment on others for their wrongs! Jesus could have done that when He was here because He had every right to, but He did not so who are you to think you have the right?!

          • Emily

            Some would say that Cain killing Abel was before the law since the law was laid down for us in Moses’ time. Though there could be some validity in that argument, I would disagree with that because Noah clearly understood clean and unclean animals, so some knowledge of law was available.

            However, there is a reason that Cain being spared is still biblical, and not a transgression of law, and it’s quite simple. God’s law requires two witnesses to condemn murder & adultery. Clearly in the case of Cain, we are told that he waited until he and Abel were in the field, so probably remote. There were not two witnesses; therefore under God’s law his life was spared. Now people claim “But God knew,” but God always knows, so that’s not a good argument as to why bad people can get away with heinous crimes. If God had decided to take Cain’s life, I believe, He still could have done so, but not doing so, wasn’t wrong either. As God, we aren’t allowed to pass judgment on why He may or may not do things.

            This argument can also be applied to David when people try to say that he didn’t get the proper punishment for adultery with Bathsheba and the murder of her husband, Uriah – there weren’t two witnesses besides David and Bathsheba themselves and they weren’t confessing. However, you will notice that God still punished David, Bathsheba, and Cain, so it’s also not as if God overlooked their sins either.

            There is also a lesser argument in defense of Cain, but I think the first is far stronger. At Cain’s time in history, all mankind was directly related. Not in the sense that we are still all related, but in the sense that not as many people were alive. So for Cain to die would likely mean that a direct relative would be the one doing the punishing. Having a person with a possible emotional attachment to Abel and/or Cain can quickly devolve into vengeance instead of justice. God makes clear the difference. We are not allowed to kill for emotional reasons, but because God demands justice.

            To answer your question: no, I’m not ignorant of the Old Testament.

          • Richard Williams

            You definitely are ignorant of some things about Scripture. This issue has nothing to do with their being not enough witnesses because God Himself is three in one! It is because of God’s decision of mercy that He decides not to take someone’s life when He could. That is what it comes down to and He has not allowed us to judge because we have no right to! That argument has already been made.

          • Emily

            You are throwing law completely out the window, so I ask again, how can anyone live in a law-free world? Seriously, do you live in a world free of law, since you claim to be free of God’s? When you throw out God’s law you create a vacuum where men step in to a create whatever laws they want, such as the law that allows the murder of unborn children! This world was made by God to have order, and you want to throw it out.

            What then do we do with law-breakers? (If that’s even possible in your world, since apparently men are free from law.) What do we do with murderers, thieves, child-molesters, and drunk drivers? Put them in prison? I can tell you that one thing I know is prisons are not biblical! Does God ever set up a prison system? No, because under His law transgressors are dealt with: thieves pay restitution & murderers are put to death-in both cases you don’t have people sitting in prison cells for years on end getting free room and board from the very citizens they have harmed. The only time people were to go to “sanctuary cities” was in the event of accidental death, not murder. We have created a man-made system completely in defiance of God because, like you, man thinks he knows better.

            Ever hear of the shorter catechism?:
            “Q. 4. What is God?

            A. God is a spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable, in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness and truth.”

            Everything God does is wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness, and truth. Yet you are trying to say there is no justice, goodness, or truth in the law God gave man. Paul says, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good,” and, “The law is spiritual.”

            “Q. 14. What is sin?

            A. Sin is any want of conformity unto, or transgression of, the law of God.”

            That really says it all itself, sin is the transgression of law. How else would one sin? If the law as a whole is not valid, then the individual laws are not valid: murder, theft, adultery, taking the Lord’s name in vain, bearing false witness, incest, bestiality-all not sins. How does one save a man’s soul by saying there is no sin. Yes, there can be no sin without the law: “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law:” Romans 7:7.

            You are so twisting God’s Word that I can no longer speak to you-these are my last words on the subject. Make of them what you will, but my sincere hope is that you learn from them.

          • Richard Williams

            Emily, you are the one acting like you know better. Jesus gives you direction regarding how to react towards those who do evil yet you ignore it. And since when has God’s law been exactly the same thing as whatever punishment He desires towards those who break the law? Do you get it or do you want to be punished for your own sins? You are someone who should never be in political leadership and call yourself a Christian.

          • Richard Williams

            You are the one twisting God’s word and you are also ignoring Jesus’ direct teachings regarding how to respond to those against you. I imagine you are reacting that way out of fear. What is that makes you not trust God with your life?

            Also you don’t seem able to distinguish between God’s law and whatever God decides to do in regards to people breaking that law. Those are two different things and He never gave you the ability to make that decision if you are a believer in Jesus Christ. Do you remember how Jesus responded to the disciples who were talking about how Pilate (a secular authority by the way) mixed the blood of Galileans with their sacrifices? How about when the disciples wanted to rain down fire on the Samaritans that didn’t welcome them? Think about it. You deserve punishment just as much as anyone else so how should you respond to those who sin against you in light of how God has treated you when you were His enemy?

          • Richard Williams

            You are the one twisting God’s word and you are also ignoring Jesus’ direct teachings regarding how to respond to those against you. I imagine you are reacting that way out of fear. What is that makes you not trust God with your life?

            Also you don’t seem able to distinguish between God’s law and whatever God decides to do in regards to people breaking that law. Those are two different things and He never gave you the ability to make that decision if you are a believer in Jesus Christ. Do you remember how Jesus responded to the disciples who were talking about how Pilate (a secular authority by the way) mixed the blood of Galileans with their sacrifices? How about when the disciples wanted to rain down fire on the Samaritans that didn’t welcome them? Think about it. You deserve punishment just as much as anyone else so how should you respond to those who sin against you in light of how God has treated you when you were His enemy?

          • Richard Williams

            You are the one twisting God’s word and you are also ignoring Jesus’ direct teachings regarding how to respond to those against you. I imagine you are reacting that way out of fear. What is that makes you not trust God with your life?

            Also you don’t seem able to distinguish between God’s law and whatever God decides to do in regards to people breaking that law. Those are two different things and He never gave you the ability to make that decision if you are a believer in Jesus Christ. Do you remember how Jesus responded to the disciples who were talking about how Pilate (a secular authority by the way) mixed the blood of Galileans with their sacrifices? How about when the disciples wanted to rain down fire on the Samaritans that didn’t welcome them? Think about it. You deserve punishment just as much as anyone else so how should you respond to those who sin against you in light of how God has treated you when you were His enemy?

          • Richard Williams

            You are the one twisting God’s word and you are also ignoring Jesus’ direct teachings regarding how to respond to those against you. I imagine you are reacting that way out of fear. What is that makes you not trust God with your life?

            Also you don’t seem able to distinguish between God’s law and whatever God decides to do in regards to people breaking that law. Those are two different things and He never gave you the ability to make that decision if you are a believer in Jesus Christ. Do you remember how Jesus responded to the disciples who were talking about how Pilate (a secular authority by the way) mixed the blood of Galileans with their sacrifices? How about when the disciples wanted to rain down fire on the Samaritans that didn’t welcome them? Think about it. You deserve punishment just as much as anyone else so how should you respond to those who sin against you in light of how God has treated you when you were His enemy?

          • Richard Williams

            What? Are you sure you know the gospel? How did Jesus fulfill the law? Did He not die for people’s sins? The Old Testament sacrifices are not carried out anymore because Jesus died for people’s sins and the same with the other punishments unless you want to die yourself because I am pretty sure someone could find you guilty for at least one of the things that they used to put people to death for in the Old Testament.

            Paul is only affirming the right of the secular authority to put him to death for a wrong according to their law. He is not affirming that Christians should call for the death of people because he knows that all are deserving of death, including himself. Remember Paul persecuted Christians to their death who had not done wrong?

          • Emily

            Actually you don’t know the gospel. Are you really questioning whether Christ fulfilled the law? Because He states Himself that He did. And you are right that the reason we don’t have sacrifices anymore is because Jesus died, but you are equating that with the end of all law. We can’t sacrifice because Jesus was the ULTIMATE & PERFECT sacrifice, and the continue to kill animals that way would be the same as saying that Jesus’ sacrifice wasn’t good enough. Sacrifices were meant for atonement and cleansing, but Jesus already atoned and made us clean. However, that does not abolish law or punishment! You are equating being punished with not being forgiven; I’m not. Even Christians sin, and they should repent, and part of repentance is acceptance of what you’ve done and making it right. God shows us how to make it right. When you steal, you pay restitution. When you murder (self-defense is not murder) you die.

            Abolishing law creates chaos and anarchy. That is not God’s intention for man; Jesus said “If you love me, keep my commandments.” He also said that loving God is the first and greatest commandment and loving your neighbor is the second. Well, go back to Jesus, part of loving God is “…keep my commandments.” And how does God show us we are supposed to love our neighbor? “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not bear false witness,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” We show love to our neighbors by following the restraint of the law and not taking their things, not sleeping with their spouses, not lying about them, and treating them as we want to be treated.

            Paul clearly states that they are ministers of God, but you’re saying that he’s only talking about secular law. I do think that secular law is included, but I think I’ve also clearly laid out that we are still required to stand under God’s moral law. You can’t live in a world without law, and frankly, I’d rather live under the freedom of God’s than the oppressive nature of man’s.

          • Richard Williams

            You don’t even know what Jesus fulfilling the law even means. It means that He was punished for our sins. Don’t you realize that sacrificed animals were taking the place of humans when they died? Well, what about the death of Jesus then? Are you Catholic? Do you think that Christians should do penance for every sin that they committed or else they will lose their relationship with God? That is what it sounds like. The word repentance means to change your mind about your sin. Look it up. Whatever happens after that is up to how the Holy Spirit works in the individual. It does not mean anything about punishment or restitution! What about Jesus paying for people’s sins do you not understand?

            I know what the law is. Notice it has nothing to do with punishment. It does not say if you see someone sin, you should punish them. There is something wrong with your mind. You should repent.

            Oppressive nature of man?! Your very ideas are oppressive!

            As for your whole understanding of what “minister” means, you are skewing it with a modern definition as though the passage is talking about pastors or something.

          • afchief

            Your argument is flawed in that it is a straw man. Between 75M to 125M were killed where gun control was the strictest and that would be Stalin’s USSR, Hitler’s Nazi Germany and Mao’s China.

            But yet socialists like you who want to take the guns of law abiding citizens who only wish to defend them and their families never suggest the argument to include the some 100M they killed who were unarmed.

          • Richard Williams

            That argument right there is a straw man, those deaths had nothing to do with gun control and you know it. Those deaths happened because people blindly allowed those people to come into power over them (and guns are not the only means to stop people from gaining power).

          • afchief

            You are quite wrong!!! All dictators must disarm the population. Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, etc. 0lawless and the Democrats are following in their footsteps. All roads lead to dictatorial power grabs by this anti American, anti constitution, anti-liberty Democrat 0liar and his cult followers.

            You need to study history and what the 2nd Amendment is all about. For nearly 240 years, the right to keep and bear arms has stood the test of time, and I will continue to stand by those courageous citizens who follow in the footsteps of generations of American patriots and who through their sacrifice dare defend and protect the written words of our Founding Fathers.

            Government effectively coming after law abiding citizens in the wake of the tragic actions of a madman is indeed a cop out when the problem obviously lies elsewhere. This country was founded with the idea that one day it may be necessary for the people to take back their government. If only the government has sophisticated arms the people are no longer free – they will have become subjects. If the government is allowed to never let a good crisis go to waste in the furtherance of an agenda anathema to freedom loving people then the real harm to innocent persons has only just begun.

            The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they TRY to take it

          • Al Sayyid.

            people can kill with fists. should we make that illegal as well? ive seen people can do a lot more of killing with hands then gun itself. seriously now you should by now know that a gun is only a tool.

          • Richard Williams

            It is illegal to murder with fists. You can also go to jail for fighting with your fists, so I don’t see the logic there.

          • Emily

            You just defeated your own argument. Murder is wrong no matter how one does it, but it is the person’s fault not the gun’s. Why blame the gun? Should we outlaw knives? No, because it’s already illegal to kill with a knife. No one here is saying that murdering people is okay, but saying it’s the guns fault is like blaming shoes for tripping.

          • Richard Williams

            Who is blaming a gun? But guns should be banned as being carried unless they are used for things like hunting because there is only one purpose for them – to use them as a lethal weapon if someone feels like they should. And human beings can not be trusted.

          • Emily

            If you think that banning guns will stop murder, then you are blaming the gun, not the person.

            Also, it seems you think guns for hunting is okay? How would you make sure those were never used for murder?

          • Al Sayyid.

            in other words its not the tools fault.

          • Draco Morrison

            There are two viewpoints of the issue:

            “If I had a gun, I would shoot people. Therefore, NOBODY should have a gun”

            “If I had a gun, I would save lives. Therefore, EVERYONE should have a gun”

            Luke 22: 36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

          • Richard Williams

            I already dealt with that passage more than once. I suggest you actually read the things I have said.

            As for more guns, how does that really encourage life saving when guns are being held on to with the intention to kill if necessary? There is no real logic there.

          • Draco Morrison

            I have found it to be accurate, that cowards, those quick to anger, and criminals (not all) want to take all guns away, while the patient, couragous, and law- abiding (not all) want to keep guns. The anti gunners are always claiming that “the streets will run red with blood” whenever a gun liberty is passed, but the crime rate actually goes down.

            He that will lose his life for Christ will find it. Does that mean we should go spit on a mafia boss? The word of the Lord has given many examples that we must not hold the life of a murderer to be more sacred than his victim (Gen 9:6)- that we should be diligent and dutiful to provide for and protect our family.

            If you believe you should not own a gun, then God will not hold it against you, and if you obey that belief it will be counted for righteousness. The reality of the world is very unforgiving however (ESPECIALLY in the last days). If you believe your gun will be used for more tham self defense, then dont own one. But I promise you, very soon you will wish you had one. God be with you

          • Emily

            Actually, there is perfect logic there. The same logic behind God’s command of the death penalty: those that threaten life need to be dealt with so they cannot continue to steal life, thus the death penalty and defense are life-preserving. To God a murder’s life for the sake of law-abiding citizens it not only acceptable, but REQUIRED.

          • Richard Williams

            Actually, the death penalty is not something REQUIRED in Scripture. If you knew the Scripture better you would know that. There were certain points in time in God’s covenant with the Jews that it was a punishment, but it was not always REQUIRED. If it was always REQUIRED then there would be a few main figures told about in Scripture that would have been put to death, but they were not. And I am also wondering if you consider abortion murder or not? What would you say about everyone who has ever had a hand in it? Do you realize that Canada does not have the death penalty? Canada has not needed it in order to preserve life. In actuality, it is contradictory to argue that the death penalty preserves life. You do realize that the death penalty means taking a life don’t you? And maybe we should put to death all of the politicians and all of those involved in warfare that have taken away the lives of people who were not directly involved in conflict ie. the foolish term “collateral damage”. You may think you are making sense, but you are not.

          • Emily

            I know the Scriptures. Man has no right to take God’s law and throw it out the window. The instances of people, such as David, not being put to death was direct intervention from God. In all other cases, the death penalty is REQUIRED. Actually, David wouldn’t have been put to death according to God’s law anyway, because it REQUIRED 2 witnesses. God’s law always REQUIRES proof. (Or do you not know the Scriptures?) Only God, David, and Bathsheba knew of it, and 2 of them weren’t telling. But, God, knowing all, still punished David.

            Abortion is murder. The problem with it is that people have been lied to for so long that they have been led astray to not think of it as abortion. Those that have led others astray will face God’s wrath, as well as those unrepentant of killing their babies. Even murders get away with it sometimes, but “Vengence is mine…saith the LORD.” Paul tells us that civil government is a “sword” and a curse to “evildoers”: he is referring to the God-instituted authority of the death penalty, forcing restitution, etc. I DO NOT have the authority to kill murders after the fact, but I DO HAVE the authority to save people during the act. I also have the authority to say that the government has an obligation to it’s citizens to use the “sword” to protect us.

            If a man with a gun walks into a bank with 20 people in it with the intent to kill, he has the potential to kill 20 people. I can stand there and allow the murder of 20 people or I can shoot the man and PRESERVE 20 people’s lives. This is a sinful world and sometimes preserving life means taking it. It makes perfect sense; it’s logical; it’s BIBLICAL.

          • Angela Zook

            Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God

            Now see what you think:
            So, is the guy holding a knife a murder or a chef…or could you even tell difference…it’s not about the knife brother it’s about the person whom carries it. God gave us tools (I bet you dabble in technology) it is up to each individual to decide how they want to use them ( for good or evil)..if you just don’t like guns, then don’t like guns..but know that a gun does not make decisions..it’s the person..some people use guns to put dinner on their table..they also use bows, string for snares, and etc…just about any object can be used to inflict pain and death..even bacteria..Your debate holds no water..just go with being a man who doesn’t like guns..I pray that in our short time on earth that you have no reason to call 911..I would hate for a police officer to carry a gun in your presence..shame on you for using a computer to communicate..for all I know you could be a sex offender preying on children..end of statement and no need to reply God Bless

          • Richard Williams

            Angela, you help make my point. Humans use guns for evil. And humans can not be trusted with guns.

            I already hate police officers carrying guns because I don’t trust them to make wise decisions with it.

            Shame on you for using your computer to communicate yourself and shame on you for throwing a wild thing like “sex offender” out there. I am going to reply to nonsense like that. And shame on you for saying stuff like this and not expecting a response. You are not speaking for God.

      • Ed Walton

        Guns do make a difference; deer camp is always the politest & well-mannered destination.

      • John

        You would be surprised at how much self control people can have when failing to keep it could cost them their lives.

        • Richard Williams

          This is pure lies. I live in Canada and live in very little fear of guns and have never actually remember seeing anyone with a gun, although I know they are around. I suppose I would have to live in a community where there is more hunting to actually see guns.

          • afchief

            No, what you are stating is a lie! Do you notice a trend here? What do Sandy Hook Elementary, Aurora, Colorado’s Century 16 theater, Columbine High, Fort Hood No. 1 and Fort Hood No. 2 and this school in Oregon all have in common? They’re all “gun-free zones.” Oh, if only, rather than “gun-free zone” signs, each of these terror Ground Zeros had had a sign reading: “Staff heavily armed and trained. Any attempts to harm those herein will be met with deadly force.”

            Might some of those beautiful souls have still died before one or more well-armed good guys could take out the well-armed bad guys? Perhaps. But how many precious lives could have been saved?

            Albert Einstein famously quipped that the definition of “insanity” is “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” In that sense, “progressives” are insane.

          • Richard Williams

            Schools are all generally gun free zones that does not mean a thing. The insanity is to continue to encourage a gun culture which includes shooting “bad guys” as a form of entertainment ie. shooting anyone that you see as a “bad guy”.

          • afchief

            What? You sound like a liberal which lives in la la utopia land. In liberal utopia land all of the guns magically vanish and bad people no longer exist because we’ve given them enough free stuff so they become good people. It’s working well in Detroit and Chicago. Is it not??????

            The liberal logic = Killing is bad = Guns kill people = Guns are bad = Therefore ban guns.

            That is the connection you make, but you fail to realize just what exactly the right to bear arms protects us from: tyranny.

            The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution (no government can give what it does not have)

            2A recognizes the fundamental human right to self-defense, irrespective of the attacker’s identity.

            The Bill of Rights PROTECTS Rights, it does not GRANT them as government NEVER HAD THEM TO GRANT.

            The police are 5 to whatever minutes away. We cannot depend on them to defend us. Guns SAVE LIVES!!!!

          • Richard Williams

            Guns save lives? That is the biggest crock I have ever heard! How many people have died in the world via guns? Humans can not be trusted with guns.

            The right to bear arms does not free from tyranny. The only thing that can protect someone from tyranny is God. If you think people have the freedom to worship God because of guns, that is ridiculous. I have the freedom to worship God because I have the Holy Spirit and no threat from any other human being can take that away from me. Jesus tells me not to be afraid of anyone who can take away my life, to be afraid of God. So, I will continue to serve God regardless of what threat lurks around the corner, and in threat of life, I will still not abandon my faith.

          • afchief

            Yes, now I know you are one whacked out liberal. The liberal logic = Killing is bad = Guns kill people = Guns are bad = Therefore ban guns. Yes, now I know you are out there in liberal la la land!!!! Any country that does not allow it’s citizens the right to bear arms is a police state. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws only affect the law-abiding citizens.

            Gun control laws and proposals never have and never will have anything to do with crime reduction or public safety. They have always been about the subjugation of a segment of or society in general. The 2nd Amendment was in included in the Bill of Rights as a last defense against a tyrannical government like that of the 0lawless Regime. He and his minions want to subjugate as many Americans as possible. One of many ways is to disarm them. With the obvious cowardice of Congressional leadership and the apathy and ignorance of half the people the day will soon be here where every American will have to make the individual, personal decision of living on their knees to an omnipotent government, or die if need be on their feet as a free man or woman.

            Take your liberal anti-american and anti-christian garbage elsewhere!!!

          • Richard Williams

            You are a whacked out right-wing extremist, I suppose?

            Canada is not a police state. You are pretty ignorant about the world and reality. Your mind has been so deceived and manipulated by the culture around you that you can not see beyond your narrow-minded mindset that you have been taught. It is not biblical, you are following a man-made philosophy of living.

            Not only are you ignorant about how to truly save lives (ie. through the gospel), you are also ignorant about the value of your property in God’s eyes.

            You can’t see how much the access of guns in the U.S. has done nothing to help you in terms of public safety. I am quite glad that I can get on a bus or drive on a highway and not even have in the back of mind the thought that this person I may be driving on the road with or sitting beside may be packing a gun. I feel pretty safe. It is too bad you have the kind of fear in the U.S. that leads to the irrationality that you have.

            Not all Americans agree with you. Not all Christians would agree with you. And you are fairly “liberal” with the way you throw around the word “liberal”. What does that even mean? Is that even a biblical term? I don’t see in the Bible anywhere Jesus says someone should be either a conservative or liberal. That is a humanly contrived philosophy that has no origin in Scripture. You are the one presenting “anti-Christian” garbage. You can not even back up anything you are saying with Scripture. You have absolutely no right to tell someone else that what they are saying is Christian or not because you have no authority to. Your words are of a human origin, not from God.

          • wandakate

            We tend to follow man-made laws and traditions don’t we?
            Most people break GOD’s laws and just do whatever the law of the land says…might not be a good thing after all.
            JESUS said, “IF you love me, keep MY commandments”. NOT the commandments of man.
            Man will fail you, but GOD will never fail you.
            Man wants martial law and to take guns away from the average law abiding citizen and thus form a police state, is that what GOD would want.
            Murder is when you kill on purpose like the guy at the school…but when you kill protecting someone’s life or your own life, you are doing that in self-defense and that is NOT murder…

          • Ax2root

            Are you UNAWARE that facts prove that guns save lives?

            You really need to study the issue.

          • Richard Williams

            What “facts”? You mean people trying to use statistics that ignore other factors in society to try to establish a direct connection when there is no such direct connection?

          • afchief

            You are really showing your ignorance. Do you really think cops can respond fast enough to save you? Are you really that ignorant? Yes, you are a hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            A. Guns save more lives than they take; prevent more injuries than they inflict

            * Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year — or about 6,850 times a day. [1] This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. [2]

            * Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.[3]

            * As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.[4]

            * Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of “Guns in America” — a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.[5]

            * Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).[6] And readers of Newsweek learned that “only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The ‘error rate’ for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high.”[7]

            * Handguns are the weapon of choice for self-defense. Citizens use handguns to protect themselves over 1.9 million times a year. [8] Many of these self-defense handguns could be labeled as “Saturday Night Specials.

          • wandakate

            We are not to be afraid of GOD as you say here. We are to LOVE GOD…Love the LORD thy GOD will all thy heart, all they soul, all thy spirit and all thy mind. Now, it doesn’t say anything about being afraid of Him.
            GOD is love. We are to worship Him in spirit and in truth.
            The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom. Fear in the Greek means “reverence”. We are to honor Him and have reverence for Him and serve Him with our obedience. JESUS said, “IF you love me, keep my commandments”.
            We never are to be afraid of Him, but to hold Him in awe and respect for He is GOD, and there is no other besides Him…

          • joe

            Well Mr Williams, I just hope that if someone with a gun ever decides to assault you or your loved ones, God steps in and stops them for you.

          • Richard Williams

            Joe, you sound like one of those people who claim to believe in God and heaven, but doesn’t really. If all your living for is to be alive in this life, I feel sorry for you. I don’t need to worry about myself or my loved ones.

          • Ax2root

            if a Christian is born again in the spirit, he can still be DELUDED in the mindset if the mind is not renewed in the RIGHTLY DIVIDED Word of God

          • wandakate

            I would think it’s better to kill one mad crazy gunman that is set out to kill a number of people, than to have him be able to kill those people. Five lives is more than one life. Five lives of innocent people minding their own business vs. one life that wants to kill others, doesn’t care about himself or anybody else and wants to serve satan and doesn’t care if he goes to hell, so chose which is better…Five are surely worth more than that one lone soul.

          • wandakate

            It’s “always” better to be safe than sorry and in these case they were all so sorry but unfortunately it was too late for that. Prevention is the key.

          • ‘Sue Pellerin

            You live in Canada? Then stfu.

          • Richard Williams

            I am not going to shut the hell up. I am going to keep on talking. Your kind of mindset is part of the problem with the world. I am not sure how much you care about anything else except yourself. Are you afraid that someone really has a legitimate reason to dislike you and would shoot you? I know where I am going when I die so I don’t have anything to worry about, how about you?

          • ‘Sue Pellerin

            Until you have a pony in this race…which would mean becoming a U.S. Citizen…..stfu. I stand by that statement.

          • ‘Sue Pellerin

            More than you’ll ever know. But you have no bearing on what happens here, so I’ll say it again. Stfu.

          • Richard Williams

            You have more to worry about than I do? I have no bearing? Actually, I have told you the truth so my words do have a bearing in your life because you will be held accountable by God for having the truth told to you and you rejecting it.

          • Ax2root

            HOPLOPHOBIA is irrational FEAR of guns

            Phobias are demonic in origin

          • Richard Williams

            I don’t trust people with guns. That is rational.

          • afchief

            I don’t trust liberal hypocrite Canadians

          • wandakate

            If Canada is safer than the USA then I need to consider moving there and I would except for the winter weather conditions there…

          • afchief

            “The strongest reason for the People to retain the right to KEEP and BEAR arms, is as a last resort to PROTECT themselves AGAINS TYRANNY in government.” — Thomas Jefferson

            1) Canadian warning Americans about the gun confiscation

            youtube. com/watch?v=LIrBUrFV2Ac

            2) A Warning from Australia to America: DON’T Give Up Your Guns

            youtube. com/watch?v=i8HDDpReVlI

            3) Brits Warning: “Our Gun Ban caused 40% jump in Gun Crime” DONT GIVE UP YOUR GUNS!youtube. com/watch?v=ZTyCD2n6HAQ

            AMERICA, Listen their WARNINGS !!!

            Without guns in your possession you’ll became the full subjects of the TYRANNY.

          • wandakate

            My neighbor wants one and probably may need one in the future, but I don’t know a lot or enough about them to advise her.
            She’s older and she’s never used one before. She just wants one for protection.
            Apparently you know something about them. What would you recommend she buy? She would need something EASY, and lightweight and something that’s easy to load and unload. I don’t think she’s able to get out much and go practice at a firing range etc. so are there any guns that she would be able to use without any practice. Just like point at the subject and fire????
            It’s good to help out the neighbor but I’m not sure what would be the best one for her.
            Any help would be appreciated, and of course thank you in advance.

          • afchief

            I bought my wife a 38. It is very easy to handle and load.

          • wandakate

            What’s a .38? I mean does it have a name…Remington, or something like that? My adopted nephew said a Werther(?) may not be the correct spelling, was good but I will tell her about the .38, but does it have another name besides .38?
            Thanks for the info.

          • afchief

            A 38 is a six shot revolver. There are lot’s of manufactures that make a 38. It’s a lot easier for a woman like my wife to load and fire verses a clip style gun.

          • wandakate

            10-4, thanks buddy…Apparently you were you an Air Force Chief? Or, you are one now, not sure. My first husband was in the AF, and he was a jet aircraft mechanic stationed first in Illinois and then out in Texas at Laughlin AFB.

          • afchief

            Yes, I was a Chief. Retired 10 years ago after 23 years of service.

          • wandakate

            Oh ok, thanks for your service…My 2nd husband and I were married for over 30 years and he was in the Navy when we married, he spend about 18 years in the Navy, then he went into the Coast Guard and he was also a Chief. A chief E-7 when he retired. He has since passed away at the age of 64. He was a smoker (unfortunately) and his lungs collapsed. He spend a few days in intensive care and he just couldn’t breath, so he’s gone since May of 2011.
            She (the neighbor) doesn’t use a computer, she wants to know how much one of those is going to cost her ? I have absolutely NO ideal whatsoever…

          • Ax2root

            I don’t trust people exhibiting HOPLOPHOBIA

    • Ax2root

      It was being threatened with GUNS THAT t made him STOP MURDERING

      • John

        Eventually people with guns showed up yes. How many people died before they arrived?

        • Ax2root

          All too many.

          Imagine if faculty and students had been armed and could have STOPPED THE GUNMAN before he hurt anyone….or himself.

          Fear is demonic. HOPLOPHOBIA is irrational fear of guns and is evidenced by ” gun free zones”

        • wandakate

          If one person lost their life, that’s one too many…He wanted to serve satan then he was doing that very thing and he will go to hell and thus be “miserable” for eternity that never ever ends…

  • Ransom Davidson

    Not one word in Obama’s speech about Christians being specifically targeted by this deranged individual. Instead and once again, guns are the biggest problem/threat and we need greater gun control. Tell that to those living in the cities with the strictest gun control laws and I bet they would beg to differ if they have half a brain and are not straight out socialists and communists or worse, but rather true patriots. If Muslims had been specifically targeted instead of Christians, you can bet he would have condemned the attack as intolerance and hate against those of a certain so-called “faith” and that he would have pushed for stricter laws that punish those that would do such things. Maybe we will have such an incident in the future by some deranged self-proclaimed (and possibly so-called Christian) madman (or woman), and then Obama can continue to wreak further havoc on this country with more lies and outright deception. Not that I am looking forward to such a thing because I certainly am not. But this is the world we live in and it’s full of impostors and deceivers isn’t it?

    • Byron Crump

      AT THE TIME OF HIS SPEECH THIS WAS NOT KNOWN INFORMATION KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH

      • steve34609

        Yup…still waiting to hear him say something in support of us.

      • Ransom Davidson

        Then the president should not have given his speech before all the facts were in, right? He’s the one that should keep his mouth shut until all facts are in and that’s the facts, period.

      • Gary Mathis

        Ok, what has the worthless asshole said since then?

      • softengine

        Hey dude, you’re caps lock is on.

      • JohninRedding

        So why say anything at all? Obama was making very specific criticism without any information- period. He was the one jumping the gun- pun intended.

      • Ax2root

        He didn’t have information about a LOT of THINGS…and yet he rushed in to speak before facts were known….a sign of a foolish man according to the bible

    • afchief

      The man is evil. He is the most anti-america, anti-christian, lying and lawless man ever to hold the office of the presidency.

  • Tmaximus

    Since Sheriff Hanlin insists other mass slaughters were gun grabbing false flag events that cast Thespians his ilk calls ‘crises actors’…all one can assume is that he’s multi-tasking as a Sheriff and as a producer, script writer, director, as well as an actor in his own false flag
    production of this week, right? Oscar award for supporting crises actors goes to the bloody corpses on stretchers and traumatized survivors hired & scripted by the Sheriff. .

    By the by….is the killer’s mom going to be as mouthy about this slaughter any time soon….as she has been about her “up yours” joy of open carrying her AK, AR, P226, because her shotguns were too cumbersome to accessorize her outfits? His father was classy enough to show the world his shame. She has not.

    • enough

      Interesting that you would know that about the sheriff

      • Tmaximus

        Interesting that you do not since he’s been very vocal about Sandy Hook as a false flag gun grabbing fake event. Try reading the front page of news papers here….and globally. You could catch up!

  • Judy Davis

    Body guards for people carry guns. Should we allow the security people at the schools to also carry guns to guard our children? Not every person would have to carry but if the shooter knew some one could step up and shoot back, maybe he would think twice.

  • Sal Passos

    I have read all the posts in this discussion and I fully understand everyone’s point. I have been following the gun laws closely for quite a while now. Let me say that I am a born again Christian and have a CCP. I own and carry guns for several reasons. First, I have the right given to me under the 2nd Amendment of our Constitution to carry a firearm. Second, I feel in today’s society that I have responsibility to protect my family against harm. There are too many nut jobs out there that want to hurt someone. Third, I do like to hunt enough said about that.

    I grew up in New York city during the sixties where my grandfather owned a TV repair store. (yes folks, we used to fix em, not throw them away) I have vivid memories of my grandfathers loaded M14 rifle hanging in plain sight within arms reach behind the counter. It was visible to all who walked up to the register. It gave me great comfort even at my young age knowing that my grandfather would use it if he had to and he did on occasion. No one was killed but attempts to rob our store was minimal.

    My mom and dad didn’t really like guns that much my father was a Korean war veteran and he had seen enough to not want to kill anyone. My uncle was the first person to let me handle a gun. I learned how to shoot at the age of 11 and have been shooting ever since but at NO TIME, did I get mad enough or angry with a person that I felt the need to draw a weapon and shoot them.

    I wish someone had a gun when my mother was robbed at gun point in the parking lot of our local K-Mart several years back. He pistol whipped my dear mom but didn’t get any money from her. As you could imagine this traumatized her.

    Look, there are many arguments out there regarding the ownership and carrying of firearms and as have said, I have been following this for sometime now. Facts are these and they are plain and simple. Gun laws do not work. In the 90’s FBI studies proved that cities that have to strictest gun laws have the highest crime rate. Period. I don’t know what the President was trying to say when in implied the news media should check on the facts and report them. However, if they did, they would find that the same holds true for today. It doesn’t take long a quick search on the internet will confirm this.

    Also, there are many stories that the news media will not cover regarding a person with a CCP stopping or preventing a crime. There are multiple stories out there on a daily basis. Why does the media not cover these? Because they are assisting the liberals who want to take away guns from law abiding citizens. If they showed a normal Joe stopping a crime with a legal firearm and ran the statistics they would not be able promote their anti-gun viewpoints.

    When the news broke on this shooting, we didn’t have all the facts yet but of course some “expert” was on one of the news stations promoting his agenda of anti-gun. He made the statement that the shooter had a rifle and so forth. Well, we didn’t know that at the time. Again, there is an agenda to take guns out of the hands of citizens.

    Recently here in Connecticut, a taxi driver was stopped and arrested in a town close to me. As the story unfolded apparently he was in possession of a firearm. What’s so bad about that? Well as it turns out he was a felon recently release from prison and was carrying an illegal firearm. Not a word from the news pertaining to how he came into possession of the weapon. Furthermore, if you did not know, you cannot own a firearm if your are a convicted felon. I am sure glad that Connecticut has such strict gun laws, wow. He must have purchased it from the same place the 17 year old in another Connecticut city who was arrested with illegal guns and when police searched his house they found a stash of weapons 23 in all. Oh by the way, you cannot own guns at 17 and I was told about this from one of the police officers that arrested him and searched his house.

    I know that guns my make you feel uncomfortable. I understand the fear of some of you who feel that removing them would solve the problem. I am not trying to mock your fears or concerns for your loved ones. I’m expressing my viewpoint as a Christian and a gun owner and an American citizen. Richard, I agree with the scriptures that you point out. Bare in mind that the Lord did order the killings of thousands as the Israelite’s wandered in the wilderness. Remember, killing is not murder. The correct translation of the commandment should read do not commit murder and certainly I feel the Bible gives us the right to protect ourselves and loved ones in the case of a violent attack. I ask any Christian man here, if you walked into your home and found someone in the bedroom raping your wife would you a: tell him that you are going to go and pray for him, b: ask him nicely and reason with him to stop as this is a unwanted act and you would really appreciate it if didn’t do it anymore or c: do whatever is physically required to stop this deranged lunatic from harming your wife any further up to and including the use of deadly force?

    Richard, you are right we ARE in a spiritual battle and the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty through God. Remember though that Jesus also told his disciples to sell their coat and buy a sword. It is OK to protect yourself by any means possible from those who would do you harm. There is nothing to prohibit you from doing the opposite as well and be a pacifist for fear of your soul. Paul summed it up when he said that we should judge another mans servant, only to his master can he be judged. I take that to mean that it is not my place to tell you or anyone how to live their life. We will all answer to God in the end. Also, remember that Jesus said we are to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. So seek God’s wisdom on the matter.

    I leave you all with one more thing. Don’t trust the news media. There are many stories that are put forth that are an attempt to sway the people who listen. Be careful my friends! I once heard Peter Jennings on a PBS program. He was addressing elementary school children explaining what his job is. I have never forgotten his words. “My job as a reporter is to gather the facts of a story and present them to you in a way that I feel is truthful” Thing about it.

    I plan in the near future to begin either a site or a FaceBook page on current events and hopefully expose the truth. I would love to do a internet radio show but I don’t know how to yet.

    Sal

    • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

      I am a Born Again Christian and I am Pro-Gun.I believe it is okay to protect ourselves
      I hope you get site or FaceBook page.

    • afchief

      Well said and I agree 100%. But, you will find a bunch of pacifist Christians who believe otherwise.

      • Dave_L

        “Blessed are the peacemakers (pacifists by definition): for they shall be called the children of God.” (Matthew 5:9)

        • Ax2root

          What does it say in the original language.

          Shalom is translated peace in English yet shalom means wholeness in EVERY AREA OF LIFE….deliverance, PRESERVATION, healing, soundness, and wholeness in EVERY area of LIFE.

      • Ax2root

        Jesus commanded his disciples to sell their cloak and buy the highest grade weapon of the day…a sword.

        It was just before Jesus left earth BODILY for heaven.

    • Tmaximus

      You would think true believers who say paradise awaits them in the after life would be grateful to anyone sending them there. What exactly are people so afraid of they need to defend themselves from meeting their maker?

      • Joel Saint

        Umm because life is a gift. It is not ours to take away. Or, to give away. Paul said, “For me to live is Christ, to die is gain.” But that didn’t give him the right to go kill himself, now did it???

      • Ax2root

        Do not make the false assumption that every MURDERED Christian is called as a martyr.

        Christians must obey the voice of The Holy Spirit.

        Paul escaped murder by being lowered over a wall when the murderous plot of enemies was discovered.

  • CTW

    God have mercy.

  • Teijo Kakkila

    Obummer is a dirty man with a dirty plan

  • Reason2012

    “And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.”
    Luke 16:23-25

  • Ax2root

    There is a devil spirit that comes only to stea, kill and destroy.

    JESUS IS LIFE and LIFE MORE ABUNDANTLY

    Evil is real…naive ignorance of evil is itself authorized by evil

    • afchief

      Good to see ya Ax!

      • Ax2root

        You too afchief!!

        Shalom

        • afchief

          Are you back on Charisma?

          • Ax2root

            Nope …blocked…for what I do not know.

            How about you?

          • afchief

            Nope, still blocked and probably not going back.

          • Ax2root

            Amos also…..we all start with A

  • Dave_L

    The Roseburg martyrs could have denied Christ and not have been killed.

    They also could have denied Christ using weapons to kill the shooter and not have been killed.

    But, they were killed Just as Jesus, and later the Apostles who were killed for refusing to deny Christ. These are true followers of Christ while any who make plans or excuses for resisting evil with hostile force are not.

  • Matt

    Had this shooter bothered to read a Bible and educate himself as to what is in store for Satan in Hell he would know that Satan will not rule Hell and will not embrace him when he arrives.

  • xinthose

    if only they had all rushed him; 2 guys could have took him out

  • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

    Sorry to say, but this kind of thing happens in gun zones as well. On the South side of Chicago tons of people have guns (many illegal) and it doesn’t stop the shooting. People in the theater in Colorado, the restaurant in Georgia are just a couple of examples of where people were allowed to carry guns and it still didn’t stop the carnage.