Phoenix City Council Votes to Replace Prayer With Moment of Silence to Stop Satanist Invocation

Phoenix Credit AZWatchDog-compressed
Photo Credit: AZ Watch Dog

PHOENIX — City council members in Arizona voted on Wednesday to replace the opening prayer during public meetings with a moment of silence in order to stop a Satanist group from delivering the invocation at an upcoming meeting.

As previously reported, the Satanic Temple had recently submitted a request to deliver the invocation at a Phoenix City Council meeting to ensure that “minority” voices are included in the mix. The city agreed that the group should be allowed to participate, and scheduled its inclusion on Feb. 17 as per the Satanic Temple’s request.

However, four city council members, Sal DiCiccio, Bill Gates, Jim Waring and Michael Nowakowski, soon sought to change city policy so that the invocation won’t be turned into a “circus” by atheist or Satanist groups.

DiCiccio and others moved on Friday to change the way that invocations are scheduled, so that city council members would be able to select speakers instead of permitting groups to call and select a date. However, City Attorney Brad Holm asserted that doing so would be unconstitutional and suggested instead proposing a moment of silence.

“[M]ayor and council cannot decide that this woman would not be allowed to offer her spoken prayer,” Holm stated, noting that the Satanic Temple had threatened to sue. “Our view as the city’s attorney’s office and my view personally as the city attorney is that we would be likely to lose that case.”

But during a public meeting on Wednesday, some residents expressed sharp opposition to the concept of replacing prayer with a moment of silence.

DiCiccio likewise disagreed, stating that to end the prayer would be to play right into the Satanist group’s strategy and wishes.

  • Connect with Christian News

“This is what that Satanist group wants,” he contended. “A moment of silence is basically a banning of prayer. It’s to agree to the Satanic goal to ban prayer.”

In the end, city council was split in its vote on the matter, but Mayor Greg Stanton sided with those who preferred a moment of silence out of a desire to avoid a legal battle. Council members Kate Gallego, Laura Pastor, Daniel Valenzuela and Thelda Williams also voted for the change.

But Diccio, along with Gates, Waring and Nowakowski all voted against it—the men who had called for the meeting in the first place.

“What is going to happen is: There’s no other compromise,” Nowakowski stated. “We’re ending prayer. To me, that’s wrong.”

Even the members of the Satanic Temple state that they felt the moment of silence went too far.

“What I would have preferred is to participate,” leader Stu DeHaan told local television station KNXV.

Michelle Shortt, who was set to deliver the invocation, read part of her speech to the outlet.

“Let us stand now unbarred and unfettered by arching doctrines borne of fearful minds and darkened times. Let us embrace the Luciferian impulse to eat of the tree of knowledge and dissipate our blissful and comforting delusions of old,” she read. “It is done. Hail Satan.”


A special message from the publisher...

Dear Reader, our hearts are deeply grieved by the ongoing devastation in Iraq, and through this we have been compelled to take a stand at the gates of hell against the enemy who came to kill and destroy. Bibles for Iraq is a project to put Arabic and Kurdish audio Bibles into the hands of Iraqi and Syrian refugees—many of whom are illiterate and who have never heard the gospel.Will you stand with us and make a donation today to this important effort? Please click here to send a Bible to a refugee >>

Print Friendly
  • Michael C

    Mom told me I had to share my toys with my brother. Burning my toys to ash was the only logical play.

    • BigCountry602

      Then blame your brother for your destroyed toys.

    • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

      Your brother doesn’t want to play with your toys. He hates you and wants to see how you cry when he destroys your toys. Your brother is a bully. Your mother is a fool. Where’s your dad? Sux to be you.

    • Weasel1886

      You mean your dolls.

      • Michael C

        Sure, dolls works for the analogy, as well.

        …dolls are considered toys, though, no?

  • Ambulance Chaser

    I can live with this solution.

  • Amos Moses

    Maybe it is just me, but looking at the building in the picture, Phoenix city hall seems to be festooned with all manner of pagan symbolism and absolutely nothing identifiably christian. But the are reluctant to hear a satanist? When the building they apparently meet in, is a temple to it?

    • acontraryview

      I’m curious, what “all manner of pagan symbolism” do you see that the Phoenix city hall building is “festooned” with?

      • Amos Moses

        We could start with the pyramid prominantly featured in the picture, the giant sun on the building, etc….. Even the name of the city, Phoenix, has occultic meaning.

        • acontraryview

          “We could start with the pyramid prominantly featured in the picture”

          Do you mean the flat-top, cone-shaped, decorative piece that says “City Hall”?

          “the giant sun on the building”

          So you are suggesting that having a decorative item that resembles the Sun on a building in a city that is in a state that is known for its number of sunny days, is “occultic”? Florida is known as the “Sunshine State’ and the west coast of Florida is referred to as “The Sun Coast” – also “occultic”?

          “etc”

          What “etc”?

          “Even the name of the city, Phoenix, has occultic meaning.”

          Really? How does the phoenix figure into the occult? Because it died and came back to life? Hmmmmm……there seems to be another historical figure that similar claims are made about…..who was that…..it’s right at the tip of my tongue……maybe you’ll come up with it…..probably “occultic” as well.

          • Amos Moses

            i am not particularly interested if you see it or not.

          • acontraryview

            I find it interesting that you are unwilling to answer questions about your claim.

          • Amos Moses

            You answers were…. shall we say…..condescending. You seem to have no real desire to learn if you are right or wrong. You just want a flame war. Have fun.

          • acontraryview

            “You answers were…. shall we say…..condescending.”

            What answers of mine did you find condescending?

          • Amos Moses

            Hmmmmm,,,,, all of them.

          • acontraryview

            How about some specifics, Amos. “All of them” is a cop-out.

          • Amos Moses

            Ok, the first one was marginally inquistive, but it then goes here:

            “Really? How does the phoenix figure into the occult? Because it died and came back to life? Hmmmmm……there seems to be another historical figure that similar claims are made about…..who was that…..it’s right at the tip of my tongue……maybe you’ll come up with it…..probably “occultic” as well.”

            …..and goes down from there. So ridicule as opposed to a desire to know anything. Now i gave you several persons you could go to, to find information, should your desire be otherwise, but you do not seem to have availed yourself of that. FYI, the word “occult” means “hidden” and if you have no desire to know what that is, what else is there to talk about?

            But really, if you want to know about the esoteric, meanings others give to the symbols on the building, and not just this building, but many different government and private buildings, as well as the currency you use, then the information is available. Washington DC is absolutely loaded with it.

            But your responses seem to be more argumentative and ridicule than anything else.

          • acontraryview

            Well, Amos, the first portion of my post you quoted is not an “answer”. It is three questions. The 2nd portion is an observation….not an “answer”. So I’ll ask again: What answers did I give that you felt were condescending.

            “…..and goes down from there.”

            Again, Amos, specifics please. If you are going to make accusations, the least you should be able to do, in order to avoid bearing false witness, is cite them specifically.

            “So ridicule as opposed to a desire to know anything.”

            Do you actually believe that when the architects designed the Phoenix City Hall that they actively wanted to ascribe hidden meanings to the stanchion that says “City Hall” and the image of a sun in a state known for its sunshine?

            “FYI, the word “occult” means “hidden””

            That is one of the meanings.

            Still looking for that “etc” you said existed on the Phoenix city hall, Amos. Let me know when you come up with that.

          • Amos Moses

            “What answers did I give that you felt were condescending.”

            i quoted it for you. What else do you need?

            “If you are going to make accusations, the least you should be able to do, in order to avoid bearing false witness, is cite them specifically.”

            Read your posts, you know what you wrote and the demeanor it was intended. It is not up to me to prove to you your intent. It is there for all to read. if you do not like it, too bad.

            “Do you actually believe that when the architects designed the Phoenix City Hall that they actively wanted to ascribe hidden meanings to the stanchion that says “City Hall” and the image of a sun in a state known for its sunshine?”

            It is there, what does belief have to do with it?

            “Let me know when you come up with that.”

            At the top of the columns surrounding the front of the building are orbs. The are a repeated use of the same symbol, the “Eye of Horus”. The all seeing eye. Pointed in numerous directions. Also, from the top view, available on google earth, the roof contains an all seeing eye. It is embedded in another phoenix symbol and is occult.

          • acontraryview

            “Read your posts, you know what you wrote and the demeanor it was intended. It is not up to me to prove to you your intent.”

            It is up to the accuser to prove his point. If you can’t, then you can’t. No worries.

            “It is there, what does belief have to do with it?”

            Context is absolutely essential, Amos. Unless, of course, you are saying that when a child draws a picture of being outside and includes the sun in the picture, the child is doing so with the intent of including a pagan symbolism. Is that what you are saying?

            “At the top of the columns surrounding the front of the building are orbs. ”

            So every round item on any building is actually a pagan symbol in disguise?

          • Amos Moses

            ” Unless, of course, you are saying that when a child draws a picture of being outside and includes the sun”

            We are not talking about children………..those who have invented and continue to use these symbols have written what they mean. “Morals and Dogma”” Secret Doctrine”” The Secret Teachings of All Ages: An Encyclopedic Outline of Masonic, Hermetic, Qabbalistic and Rosicrucian Symbolical Philosophy” and the list goes on and on.

            “So every round item on any building is actually a pagan symbol in disguise?”

            Not what i said, and you know it.

          • acontraryview

            “We are not talking about children”

            So then intent is a consideration, correct?

            “Not what i said, and you know it.”

            Then, tell me, how do you determine if the use of an “orb” is designed to represent a pagan symbol or if it is, to paraphrase Freud, “just an orb”.?

          • Amos Moses

            “So then intent is a consideration, correct?”

            As to whether it was done and by whom, no.

            “Then, tell me, how do you determine if the use of an “orb” is designed to represent a pagan symbol or if it is, to paraphrase Freud, “just an orb”.?”

            Context.

          • acontraryview

            “As to whether it was done and by whom, no.”

            So then children drawing a picture of a sun IS engaging in creating pagan symbols. Make up your mind, Amos.

            “Context”

            What “context” would indicate that the “orbs” on the Phoenix City Hall have pagan meaning?

          • Amos Moses

            “What “context” would indicate that the “orbs” on the Phoenix City Hall have pagan meaning?”

            The other symbols around it, obviously.

          • acontraryview

            LOL

            Well if you are ever in Phoenix make sure you avoid that temple to Paganism. And children’s drawings.

          • Amos Moses

            There is nothing to avoid, for me, it is the government that put it there, but they do not recognize what they did, or they did and they wanted to flaunt it. Makes them look silly for banning speaking when they built that building and had it adorned the way they did.

            You should speak to them about it..

          • acontraryview

            “You should speak to them about it..”

            Considering that none of the current City Council members were part of the City Council when the design of the building was being determined, how would speaking with them provide any clarity?

          • Amos Moses

            “What “etc”?”

            You do not have to take my word for it and i suggest you do not. If you are truly interested you might look into some different people such as Albert Pike, Manly Palmer Hall, Nicholas Roerich, Henry Agard Wallace (33rd VP of the US), FDR, Dr. Obadiah Harris, Dr. Robert Richard Hieronimus and during your study of that you might also look at the back of the US one dollar bill (FRN) and you will see all of those occult symbols there and more.

            Have fun……………

          • acontraryview

            The discussion is about the Phoenix City Hall building. Try to stay on topic, Moses.

          • Amos Moses

            No, the discussion was about the occult symbolism, and i have given you the names of those who consider themselves, as do others, experts in the esoteric meanings of the symbols we are talking about. They are on the FRN one dollar.

            But as i said you seem to have no real desire to learn.

          • acontraryview

            “No, the discussion was about the occult symbolism”

            You: “but looking at the building in the picture, Phoenix city hall seems to be festooned with all manner of pagan symbolism”

            The discussion was regarding pagan symbolism on Phoenix city hall, as you stated in your original post.

            You: “We could start with the pyramid prominantly featured in the picture, the giant sun on the building, etc”

            I’ll ask again: What “etc” in addition to the “pyramid”, and the depiction of shining sun. By the way, a pyramid is defined as: a structure whose outer surfaces are triangular and converge to a single point at the top. I didn’t see any object in the picture that fits that description. Where is it?

          • Amos Moses

            “The discussion was regarding pagan symbolism on Phoenix city hall, as you stated in your original post.”

            Yes, pagan symbols and they have occult, hidden, meanings which you do not want to acknowledge. And those exact same occult, hidden, esoteric symbols are in front of your eyes, like on the dollar FRN and you do not recognize them.

            Can you get on track with that?

            “By the way, a pyramid is defined as: a structure whose outer surfaces are triangular and converge to a single point at the top.”

            A trucated pyramid is still a pyramid and it is there and it is on the back of the currency you use every day.

            Can you get on track with that?

          • acontraryview

            “Yes, pagan symbols and they have occult, hidden, meanings which you do not want to acknowledge.”

            As relates to the image of City Hall in Phoenix. Still looking for that “etc” you said existed on the Phoenix city hall, which we have really narrowed down to a depiction of the sun, since the block in the front of the picture is not a pyramid. So, tell me Amos, was is the “etc” that exists on the Phoenix city hall?

            “A trucated pyramid is still a pyramid”

            Not by definition, Amos. The pyramid on the back of the currency is indeed a pyramid. The item pictured in front of the Phoenix city hall, is not.

          • Amos Moses

            ” The pyramid on the back of the currency is indeed a pyramid”

            Better look a little closer. FYI, the “Eye of Horus” on top of that pyramid is not part of the pyramid, and on the city hall building it is represented by the “sun” as the “Eye of Horus”. So both elements are there……………….. and it is all pagan and has esoteric meanings. Pagan means not christian.

            Actually, the sun is not the sun, it is the dog star Sirius, the star behind the sun, and hidden. All of Washington DC is aligned to that star.

          • acontraryview

            “and on the city hall building it is represented by the “sun” as the “Eye of Horus””

            Really? So you were part of the team of architects who designed the building and know that when they decided to put a sculpture depicting the sun, in a state known for its sunshine, that they said: “And we’ll put the Eye of Horus” above the door?

            “Pagan means not Christian”

            Then Jews are pagans? Pagan: “a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions.”

            “Actually, the sun is not the sun”

            Hmmmmm….if the sun is not the sun, then what is it?

          • Amos Moses

            “Really? So you were part of the team of architects who designed the building and know that when they decided to put a sculpture depicting the sun, in a state known for its sunshine, that they said: “And we’ll put the Eye of Horus” above the door?”

            Does not matter, the symbols are there, for all to see.

          • Amos Moses

            It is not up to the prosecutor to determine the motivation of the crime only that an act was committed and whodunit. Why they did it is not at issue.

          • acontraryview

            “Why they did it is not at issue.”

            You: “And many things have an esoteric meaning you do not see and are not intended to see.”

            According to you, intent is a part of it.

          • Amos Moses

            Of course they have an intent in doing it, we all commit acts with intent. Why they did it is not a matter of fact for the purposes of determining guilt of the act. i do not care why they did it. They did it, it is there.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          Sometimes, as Freud might say, a sun is just a sun.

          • Amos Moses

            And many things have an esoteric meaning you do not see and are not intended to see.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            But which you and others can see just fine, though? How “occult” can something really be, if lots of people all over seem to know about it? (like with the Washington DC stuff, I’ve heard that a bunch….heck, it was all over one of those “National Treasure” movies)

          • Amos Moses

            “But which you and others can see just fine, though? How “occult” can something really be, if lots of people all over seem to know about it?”

            No, others who have invented them and have had the knowledge passed down have made it known and like many things in life once you see it you cannot unsee it. Men like to brag about how they fooled others to not see things. They take a certain delight in “putting one over” on everybody.

            Your argument is not with me. It is with Albert Pike, Manly Palmer Hall, Nicholas Roerich, Henry Agard Wallace (33rd VP of the US), FDR, Dr. Obadiah Harris, Dr. Robert Richard Hieronimus and numerous others.

          • Amos Moses

            What it is, is gang sign. Graffiti if you will. It is in stone and other materials but it is the samething. Most people see graffiti every day and give no thought as to the meaning of it, but it does have meaning to those that did it.

            So does this.

    • BigCountry602

      Maybe that has something to do with the fact that many modern christian traditions, like Christmas and Easter, are repurposed paganism.

      • Amos Moses

        Not maybe……….

  • Amos Moses

    “City council members in Arizona voted on Wednesday to replace the opening prayer during public meetings with a moment of silence in order to stop a Satanist group from delivering the invocation at an upcoming meeting.”

    Satan wins again………………….

    • Jean Adams

      If the Christians bow there heads and put their hands in the prayer position making it obvious they are praying in silence, then they win.

      • Amos Moses

        No, they have given in to satan to be silent and not proclaim Christ. That is utter failure.

        Romans

        10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

        10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

        10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

        10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

        satan does not care if we worship him or not, he just wants us to not worship Christ with our mouth.

        • BigCountry602

          Nobody is stopping any christians from proclaiming Christ. The moment of silence compromise that has so many christians feeling butthurt is all because christians sought to prevent a religious minority from equal access.

          • Amos Moses

            ” is all because christians sought to prevent a religious minority from equal access.”

            WHICH religious minorities were prevented? FYI, there is no “compromise” in the word of Christ. What utter nonsense.

            Here is the deal. Christians are quite content to let others express their “religion”. The only problem comes when other “religions” hear christians praying. Then christians must SHUT UP.

            WRONG!

          • Cady555

            Say What? We are talking about secular government, not your church.

            Christians have prayed at every meeting, month after month. A non Christian was scheduled to pray once – once – and the city council called an emergency meeting. The emergency was how to prevent the non Christian from speaking.

            Amos said: “Here is the deal. Christians are quite content to let others express their “religion”.”

            Explain how an emergency meeting and a “I’m gonna take my ball and go home” solution equates to

          • Amos Moses

            “Explain how an emergency meeting and a “I’m gonna take my ball and go home” solution equates to “quite content to let others express their “religion”.”

            Explain how any of them are christians that did this…. you can’t. It was a bunch of compromising politicians.

        • Cady555

          They are making everyone obey Jesus’ clear command not to pray in public. How is obeying the words of your god “giving in to Satan”.

    • Cady555

      Why does it take Satan to cause Christians to follow the clear teaching of Jesus to pray privately and never flaunt prayer in public?

      • Amos Moses

        We are to proclaim His name, not necessarily pray, publicly, and that it is being silenced, not just christians, but now all who have that view. That was the goal from the beginning.

  • Joshua Krug

    Doesn’t it go against all good sense to openly speak to what was the original cause of the fall of man (eating from the one tree Adam was told not to eat from) as the only viable option? Maybe someone can answer: if they don’t really believe in Satan, do they really believe in prayer? If the don’t really believe in prayer, do you take someone into confidence, who would only betray your confidence? And if politics are a righteous sport meant for the bettering of the community in all aspects, would insincerity or deception of any kind benefit the participants?

  • BoscoBob

    Matthew 6:5 says:

    “When you pray, don’t be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get.”

    So, why is praying, silently to yourself, an issue? Why is it imperative to pray out loud? Yeah…we know that out of the 30,000 gods (past and present) that YOUR god is the only “true” god, so you want to force everyone to listen to your blather, but you need to understand that not everyone believes in your god.

    Would you be willing to give equal time for prayers to Gitchi Manitou, FSM, Ra, Thor, Zeus, Ishtar or the thousands of other “one true gods”? I would give odds that the answer would be “Heck NO!”

    This is classic First Amendment stuff, folks. Wipe you noses, stop crying and grow up and get a life.

    • BigCountry602

      Christians enjoy great privilege in this country and protecting that privilege is, for many christians, more important to them than equality. Their outrage over the moment of silence compromise is ironic and quite hysterical.

    • MURICA

      It appears the Satanists are better at enforcing the word of Christ within the government, than his own followers are.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Secular society cannot declare good(Christianity) as good and evil(Satanism) as evil. Secularism is a moral failure.

    • Cady555

      The government cannot declare one religion as true and another religion as false. That’s what secular means.

      As for morals, google Satanic Temple Seven Tenets and show me one immoral statement. It is one of the most positive statements of morality I’ve seen.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Today’s secular government supports demon worship and infanticide and Sodomy against the truth and against human conscience. Worship of Satan is blasphemy and evil. People have rights to God’s truth.

        • Cady555

          You may “live out God’s truth” as you see it. Each individual has that right.

          You may not use our secular government to impose your version of “God’s truth” on me or any other person.

          You may not use our secular government to force worship of your chosen diety on me or any other person. I have read the bible. Under no circumstances will I worship the god described in that book.

          The moral guidance of the Satanic Temple Seven Tenets is far better than anything found in the bible.
          And do not judge that statement unless you know what those tenets are.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Christianity created the USA. You never read the Holy Bible and doesn’t know anything about the truth, life, and nations. You secular Westerners got full-stomached by being fed by the Christian Church and are being bored to death on a planet of 4 billion suffering humans. Judgment Day is coming. You need to repent in order to get saved.

          • Cady555

            “You never read the Holy Bible and doesn’t know anything about the truth, life, and nations.”

            I’ve never read the bible?Really? How precious. Since you don’t know me, how exactly did you acquire that information?

            By the way, when I was a christian, I studied the bible and had huge chunks memorized. Then I started paying attention to all the parts nobody memorized. I am an atheist because I read the bible.

          • nobody

            ” I am an atheist because I read the bible.”
            Read, obviously did not understand.

            Unfortunate.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            By your writing, it is too obvious you’ve never read the Holy Bible or remember anything there. You were NEVER Christian in your lifetime. You’ve become an atheist only because you wanted to continue doing bad things.

          • Cady555

            Wow. Aren’t you special. Absolutely, 100% wrong, but certainly special.

            I have read the entire bible.
            I can still recite many of the verses I memorized.
            I was a christian for decades.
            My morals as an atheist are identical to when I was a christian except I am less judgmental.

            The bible says something about bearing false witness.

          • nobody

            From your description of your activity (speaking as someone like you at first, then becoming a true Christian), I can easily say you went through the motions of being a Christian but never surrendered yourself to Jesus, the actual act of BECOMING a Christian. Morals (aka “being good”) have nothing to do with being a Christian. I have two neighbors who have good morals and are upstanding men. They are no way Christians.

            Satan knows / has memorized the Bible. Probably knows it better than I do — although I’m catching up. Just because you have “read” or “memorized” parts of the Bible does not mean you understood it. Your actions bear me out on that statement.

            Argue with me if you want (I see you haven’t answered my last two questions: the first on which deity I force you to worship and the other on bullying. Doesn’t matter.) I’m just delivering a message. No hate attached, purely an FYI.

          • Cady555

            From what description of my activity could you possibly conclude that I was not a Christian for several decades? I was. Born again, filled with the spirit, witnessing, yep. That was me.

            My comment about morals was in response to the nonsense accusation from Grace “You’ve become an atheist only because you wanted to continue doing bad things.” That accusation makes christians feel better but it is ludicrous and totally unsupported by facts.

            I am an atheist because I realized there is no evidence and no reason to believe the god described in the bible exists.

          • nobody

            Like I said, no hate attached, purely an FYI.

            In answer to your first sentence, try re-reading what I told you I’ve noticed in our few conversations you are strong in your opinion and weak in your ability to communicate/understand what others are telling you. [The discussion on evolution is point in case: you think you know it all, and I’ve shown you time and again that you don’t. You’re either stupid or bull headed — I’m thinking the latter. You’re misinformed / wrong and whether you acknowledge it or not is immaterial to me.]

            Same goes here.

            Whether you were truly saved is something I will never know. I do know that presently you aren’t.

            However, I stand by everything I said.

            I’ll add this:
            There are many CINO’s (Christians in name only) who think they’re Christian because they know they’re not atheists. They are not saved, they are not Christians, and they are going to hell. My two neighbors are perfect examples. My assessment is that likely was you but you didn’t realize it. As I said, you were going thru the motions.

            Your last sentence utwittingly validates what I said previously. Which I repeat, and maybe this time you’ll read it: Just because you have “read” or “memorized” parts of the Bible does not mean you understood it.
            You’re smarter than the average poster I run into. You owe it to yourself to give it some thought, after all, what’s the risk to think about it?

            God bless. He loves you regardless of whether you acknowledge Him.

          • Cady555

            I accepted Jesus. I was a Christian. I realized it was nonsense. Now I am an atheist. Deal with it.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, you were never a Christian. Read the Book of the Hebrews and the Epistles of Peter and John and Jude. Atheists blaspheme and support abortion and Sodomy. You need to repent of your sin to get saved.

          • Cady555

            LOL

          • Fox71

            I assume that to be a monotheistic diety, the christian gods all plug into each other, like the cloud wizard’s head plugs into the zombie jeebus’s rear end.

          • nobody

            Deal with it? oooh, that sounds like the comment of someone who is not prevailing in the discussion.

            Nah, I don’t need to deal with it, I don’t care about it at all. I’m just pointing out what appears to be your false impression that you ever were a Christian. In name only, perhaps, as I’ve said before: going through the motions.

            Noting this is the first time you even mentioned Jesus, for whom being a Christian is named. As in, Jesus CHRIST. Sorry to hear you find it nonsense.

            What I find amusing is your irony. You believe in satan, but find God and Jesus to be nonsense. Even satan believes in God. Or do you believe satan created the universe? Or did the universe just come into being? Which brings us back to evolution. Something which you don’t believe in.
            I’m confused just trying to figure out what you believe in at any given moment of our discussion.
            For the sake of ease, if you want to continue this discussion, let’s move to our comment thread on the page entitled Rev Graham Gay Marriage.

          • Fox71

            If I want to do evil things, then I would become a christian. A christian can rape, murder, and molest all the children he or she wants and say “I’m sorry jeebus” and get to rape, murder, and molest the same innocent children in heaven for all eternity.

          • nobody

            Ah, the expert speaks. Ah, genius, you have unfinished business. You didn’t answer me from3 days ago. What’s the problem? BTW, you already ARE doing evil things. Your post here is a lie and you know it. Lying is evil. So, unfinished business. Get on it.

            nobody >>>Fox71 3 days ago

            “with evidence literally everywhere.”
            Then why are you unable to provide any?

            PS You forgot to “point out where I used ad hominem attacks on you.” That would make you a liar. tsk tsk

          • nobody

            I look at people’s profiles to see whether they usually post something worthwhile or if their history indicates they post garbage all the time.
            Your profile: 710 comments, 183 upvotes. Ratio: .26
            Any ratio less than 1.0 indicates a troublemaker,less than .5 indicates someone who posts just to vent his/her anger.

            Stats are amazingly accurate.

          • nobody

            “You may not use our secular government to force worship of your chosen diety on me or any other person.”
            So may the wonderful government you describe force me, who does not believe in homosexual marriage, to believe in it?
            Really straightforward, religion is a belief system, nothing more. You being an atheist believe in nothing, I believe in something.
            BTW, where am I forcing you to worship my chosen deity?

          • Cady555

            You singular, I don’t know.

            Christians as a group do try to force religion. Look at the Phoenix City Council, the Chino City Council and others. They use government authority to cause a room full of citizens to pray to their god. They refuse to extend that privilege to any other religion.

            Look at public school coaches around the country. They lead their entire team in prayer to their god, and use their taxpayer paid authority to control playing time and practice conditions to ensure that all players participate, even though it is likely several players are Hindu, Jewish, Muslim or Atheist. The entire team must pray in Jesus’ name for “unity”.

            It gets old.

          • nobody

            It gets old.
            Yah, too bad the country was founded on Judeo Christian values, too, I’ll bet that really bugs you. That and the pesky “In God we trust” on all our money.

            Too bad you got birthed into a Christian country. Feel really bad for you.

        • Fox71

          The satanic tenets ate far more moral than the christian commandments. But even the Satanists know christianity is based on fairy tales.

          • nobody

            Do you mean “are” far more moral. A smart guy like you should proofread his stuff before posting. Two whole sentences, wow.
            So tell us about the “satanic tenets” which, according to you, ARE far more moral than the Christian Commandments. Please share.

          • nobody

            Fox, don’t see an answer to my question from 2 hours ago.
            You’re doing as poorly answering me here as you are on the page about Franklin Graham regarding evolution.
            Are you learning to post about things which you know something because so far it’s looking like you make statements which you are unable to substantiate with anything but more rhetoric? That’d be a good thing for you. I’d recommend a screen name change, people might remember how foolish Fox 71 is. Get a clean start.
            Your “private” profile says a lot. Guess you’re not proud of your work. No surprise, no one would be.

          • Fox71

            Ad hominem fallacy is a sign you have no valid argument. your canned attack on evolution is essentially nitpicking the details of how the Titanic struck an iceberg and sank to somehow destroy the “theory of propellers”. Propulsion was a motive force involved just as evolution is the motive force behind changes to life in the past. Neither require past events to prove factual.

            Let’s contrast the tenets with Constitution and the christian commandments.

            Constitution

            Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

            Two Satanic tenets
            “One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.”
            “The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo your own”

            Commandments
            “You shall have no other gods before Me.”
            “You shall not make idols.”
            “You shall not take the name of the lord your god in vain.”
            “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.”
            Here we have the Constitution and the Satanic tenets establishing freedom and rights, while we have the commandments taking away rights.

          • nobody

            “ad hominem fallacy” ? Good one.
            Show me that you understand it, then show me where I’ve used it, and we’ll go from there. FYI, stating fact is not “ad hominem fallacy.” You don’t understand, let alone cannot define, evolution. That’s a fact, uncomfortable for you, still a fact.
            Your Titanic “analogy” is as ineffective as your cannon “analogy.”

          • Fox71

            Evolution is inheritable changes in successive generations over time that are selected for by environmental pressures. Defined and understood with evidence literally everywhere. Not a single fossil is required. You can destroy every fossil ever found and still prove the fact of evolution by observing the world around you.

            Evolution does require time, and every new generation writes news evidence of the fact of evolution. So to render evolution unprovable would require destroying all past evidence of life and killing all existing life to prevent new generations.

          • nobody

            “with evidence literally everywhere.”
            Then why are you unable to provide any?

          • nobody

            Fox,
            Hope the weekend finds you well.

            I replied ye’day, don’t see a reply from you since then.
            In the meantime, have something else for you.
            You do realize that by being an evolutionist (or whatever you want to be called as a believer in evolution) that you are something else.
            A supporter of BULLYING.
            Really.
            See, Darwin’s Book was originally titled On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. (My bolding.)
            Ever looked at “natural selection” in the wild? THAT in fact DOES exist. Not pretty, but there it is. It doesn’t cause evolution, it only causes thinning of the herd.
            Bullying is merely a mild — gentle — form of natural selection.
            Hope this gives you a new perspective on your world view. .

    • Fox71

      It is only your opinion that the evil called christianity is somehow good

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        No, it’s a fact. You guys are illiterate savages apart from the Christian Church.

        • Fox71

          Speaking of illiterate, you should look up the definition of fact in a dictionary.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You’d not have any written English language without the Christian monks. Stop repaying the good with evil.

          • Fox71

            Your logic means African Americans owe their freedom to christian slave owners and should honor them.

            The world does not need written English. Written Greek or Norse would suffice amd non christians were writing books long before the christians raped, murdered, and pillaged their way across the world.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Today African Americans are more Christian than white Americans because Christianity alone is incomparably good and true. Thank God that the Westerners were not sexual pervs like today when they owned slaves. Your racist fathers were incomparably better than you regarding morality. Today’s Western secular culture is unprecedented sick in all human history. You are only better than your Christian ancestors in hiding racism on the surface level. Christianity is the only good thing about you and now you are even losing it.

          • Fox71

            Right so African Americans should say prayers every day for their ancestors having the price legend of being slaves that were moral and virtuous enough to sexually abuse them for jeesus. Even today, moral holy ordained servants of jeebus across the world still molest kids to save those little kids souls. Pity the poor unbeliever children doomed to hell that were never raped by priests or made to perform oral sex on priests.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Mankind didn’t know sexualization of children was a crime until the Church educated them. You guys are illiterate born-barbarians. Be thankful to the Church.

          • Fox71

            Spoken like a true cultist.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You secular Westerners are too ignorant on your own history and development; that’s why you are ungrateful.

  • acontraryview

    This is certainly a very viable solution. In the moment of silence, those who wish to pray are free to and those who do not are free not to.

  • BigCountry602

    Why is it that nearly every christian that testified during the Phoenix city council meeting only seemed to care about protection of christian privilege and opposed to protection of the rights of a religious minority? They were all too willing to expose this city to a damaging lawsuit and deny someone a chance to use the same platform they themselves use freely.

  • Reason2012

    The satanists claim they want “religious” rights to “pray”. They don’t have a “religion” – they instead take part of Christianity, the evil part of satan, and pretend to be on its side to hatefully mock Christianity. And they have no deity they are “praying” to. No church they go to every week for worship of this ‘deity’. No holy book that’s existed for hundreds or thousands of years.
    The claim of wanting “religious freedom” to “pray” is just a hateful sham and should be called out for what it is.

    • BigCountry602

      One could say christianity is not a religion either since so many biblical stories and traditions are blatant ripoffs of paganism. Besides, who appointed you as arbiter of religion?

      • Reason2012

        Christians are worshiping God. Are satanists worshiping satan?
        Christians have the Bible – where is your thousands of years old holy book?
        Christians go to churches Sunday, again, to worship God.
        Where are your churches? And do you pray to satan in them? No.

        • BigCountry602

          Who made you the arbiter of religion? Nobody. That’s who. Wanna guess which of the who, why, where, when, and how I need to justify my religious beliefs to you? I’ll give you a hint… It’s round and rhymes with hero. Zero! Your approval is not needed or required.

    • gizmo23

      Why don’t we see Catholics and Jews trying to force prayers like this? It’s only conservative Christians that get up in arms.
      Maybe other groups don’t need to use government to prop up their faith

      • Reason2012

        No one’s forcing anything – except the atheists. We’re just pointing out the satanists’ dishonest claim to be a “religion” and desire to “pray”.

        • gizmo23

          They still have the right

    • TheKingOfRhye

      “And they have no deity they are “praying” to”

      Not a requirement for being a religion. Hell, people around here spend all kinds of time trying to tell me atheism, or even evolution, is a religion. Now you’re gonna tell me having a deity IS a requirement? (not saying that you are one of those people who say that those things are religion, but there are plenty I run across that do)

  • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

    Surely any member of the council who has speaking privileges can pray when it is time to speak? Or does Phoenix not elect praying Christians to office?