Student Files Suit After Being Expelled From Counseling Program Over Views on Homosexuality

MissouriStateUHistoricQuadSPRINGFIELD, Mo. — A former student a Missouri State University (MSU) has filed a legal challenge against school officials after he was allegedly expelled from the university counseling program for advising that he could not counsel those involved in homosexuality on relationship matters.

Andrew Cash began his master’s in counseling at MSU in 2007. To obtain a degree, students must have 600 hours of internship work and 240 counseling hours.

In 2011, Cash became involved as an intern with the Springfield Marriage and Family Institute. That year, he was asked to provide a class presentation, and so he invited a representative from the institute to talk to his class about Christian relationship counseling.

During the presentation, a student asked if the institute counsels homosexuals who are having relational problems, and the representative said that the organization would certainly counsel homosexuals individually, but not as a “couple.” He advised that the Christian convictions of the organization would not align with helping others stay in homosexual relationships.

The following week, MSU internship coordinator Kristi Perryman asked to meet with Cash, in which she asked him about his beliefs regarding counseling homosexuals. While some reports state that Cash said he wouldn’t counsel homosexuals at all, his attorneys refute the notion and advise that Cash would only have issue with providing relationship counseling those involved in same-sex romantic relationships.

“He never said he wouldn’t counsel a gay person,” Jason Craddock, an attorney with the Thomas More Society, told WORLD.

Cash stated that for relationship advice, he would rather provide a referral to another counselor.

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According to Cash’s lawsuit, Perryman expressed concern that Cash would violate the American Counseling Association’s code of ethics, which says that counselors must “refrain from referring prospective and current clients based solely on the counselor’s personally held values, attitudes, beliefs and behaviors.”

Perryman advised that Cash would not be permitted to continue his internship at the Springfield Marriage and Family Institute and that his internship hours would not count toward the requirement. He was also asked to write a paper about working with homosexuals and demonstrate that he had “learned from the experience.”

Cash applied for a new internship, but also asserted that there was nothing wrong with working with the institute. Perryman met with others about the matter, who agreed that Cash must either leave the program or go through remediation. Part of the remediation included retaking classes he had already passed with an A grade.

Cash appealed the decision to his superiors, but was unsuccessful and was expelled from the university counseling program not long before graduation.

MSU spokeswoman Suzanne Shaw told the Springfield News Leader that “the university strictly prohibits discrimination on the basis of religion or any other protected class.”

Cash’s lawsuit says that he the student was “targeted and punished for expressing his Christian worldview.” He is seeking to be readmitted into the program so that he might obtain his counseling degree.

As previously reported, in 2012, Eastern Michigan University paid $75,000 to a Christian student after she filed suit for being expelled from the school counseling program. Julea Ward had declined to affirm a fellow student’s sexual relationship, and was faced with the choices of undergoing homosexual sensitivity training, facing a formal review by the university, or leaving the program and forfeiting her degree.

She chose the review and was consequently expelled from the program. While the university eventually agreed to a settlement over the matter after Ward filed suit, it noted that it would still require counseling students to affirm the homosexual lifestyle.


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  • TheBottomline4This

    Maybe he didn’t have the time it would take to change their mind about choosing the homosexual lifestyle. It takes a lot of digging usually to see what made them make that choice. He may not have had that much time to devote to it.

    • TheBottomline4This

      @ronald carter Not sure why you post a reply, but then delete it. Anyways…It’s a choice. Of course it is hard to turn from that, but it’s the truth. The truth does set one free if one is strong enough to allow it to.

      • Ronald Carter

        I didn’t delete my reply, it was censored by someone. I’m working on getting it restored because I meant what I said.

        No, it’s not a choice. As anyone who falls in love will tell you. You don’t choose the person. It just happens. And if you’ve ever fallen in love before, you know this. And I don’t know why you believe it would be any different for a homosexual person. A simply psychology text would benefit you well.

        • TheBottomline4This

          The choice to practice homosexual sex is wrong and a perversion. A Bible would benefit you very well.

          • Ronald Carter

            A Bible is many things but one thing it is not is a psychology text and should not be used as such. A choice to practice sex, regardless of orientation, is a personal one and not for outsiders to judge.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Yes it is to judge. It is wrong.
            A psych book is many things but one thing it is not is a Bible and should not be used as such. I took a couple of years of psychology in college…now years later I have come to know it was mostly a waste of my time and money.

          • Ronald Carter

            That’s a shame, because we know the matters of science to be true, but your Bible is, and always will be, a matter of faith. I’ll take what we KNOW to be true any day of the week. And we know that homosexuality is a normal variation within human sexuality.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Your ignorance is your bliss 🙂

          • Ronald Carter

            Science is knowledge, it is the OPPOSITE of ignorance.

            “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” -Steven Weinberg

          • Mary Quesenberry

            God INVENTED science, just as He did everything else. Science is not the opposite of ignorance – wisdom is! And God said in Romans 1:19-25 that “what can be known about Him is clear to them (mankind) because God has made it clear to them. Ever since He made the world, they have seen the unseen things of God – from the things He made they can tell He has everlasting power and is God; they are without excuse. They knew God, but didn’t honor Him as God or thank Him, but their thoughts turned to worthless things and their ignorant hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became foolish when, for the glory of God who cannot die, they substituted images of man, who dies and of birds, four-footed animals and reptiles.

          • Mary Quesenberry

            It IS a personal decision, but don’t try then to PUSH it on everyone else! LEAVE it as a personal decision and live your life as you so choose. It is anyone’s right to live a life that is against God if they so desire. But it’s NO ONE’S right to shove it down someone else’s throat!!!

          • Ronald Carter

            No one is pushing homosexuality on others other than to tell them that they deserve to live lives free from religious discrimination. I don’t think that is too much to ask.

          • Charles

            “No one is pushing homosexuality on others other than to tell them that they deserve to live lives free from religious discrimination”. What an interesting word “Tell”.. You aren’t “Telling” us anything… That behavior is unacceptable to God, and it’s unacceptable to every Christian who actually believes in him. I’ve often wondered.. Why would they push Homosexuality as normal.. Why now? Because if they can get you accept the unacceptable, well I guess maybe then you may be ready to accept anything as “Normal”. It’s called Brainwashing.

          • Ronald Carter

            What you don’t seem to realize is that you have joined this very exclusive club called Christian Fundamentalism, which you have the right to do, but then expect those who are NOT Christian fundamentalists to play by your rules. Outside of your church, most people see nothing wrong with homosexuality, do not believe God has any issue with it, and find it acceptable. So unless you’re talking about what goes on within the walls of your church, then yes, homosexuals are guaranteed these rights and freedoms. We do not live in a theocracy.

          • Charles

            So many so called “Christians” also practice without repentance in Adultery, lying, etc.. Are they ok to with God? God lays it out his Laws clearly on homosexuality, and many other sins in his Word. Couldn’t be clearer. I could care less what the rest of the world thinks. I do care what Jesus thinks. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one.

            Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

          • Ronald Carter

            There is another group opposed to adultery, lying, etc. They are called atheists.

        • The Last Trump

          STILL having your posts removed, eh “Ronald”!?
          Tsk, tsk. Never learns.

          • TheBottomline4This

            So they’ve done this before to him…LOL.

          • The Last Trump

            Yes, these folks scolding the Christians all the time about live and let live, while they are stalking Christians on a Christian website 24/7 of course, regularly have their intolerant and hateful posts removed and their accounts deleted. But instead of learning a valuable lesson about themselves, they merely respawn under another account and resume their ranting and raving exactly where they previously left off. Go figure.

          • TheBottomline4This

            satan sure is controlling them and they aren’t the least bit aware. Sad.

          • Ronald Carter

            I’m not being controlled by a figment of your imagination, sorry.

          • Ronald Carter

            Awfully cocky, thinking that this board is the only one I use on Disqus. You’re not even the most interesting one.

          • The Last Trump

            Oh, you saw yourself in there, did you?
            Shocker.
            Well, if the shoe fits and all of that, eh “Ronald”? 🙂

          • Ronald Carter

            TheBottomline4This did, and you responded without correcting him, so yes, I saw myself in there. You can leave the disapproving quotation marks out of my name by the way, I don’t hide behind pseudonyms.

          • Ronald Carter

            It was flagged as “spam” apparently, and there is a button to have it reinstated.

        • Mary Quesenberry

          So you’re saying it’s OK for a married person to “just happen” to become an adulterer – they didn’t choose it to happen. I was deeply in love with someone many years ago. But because he was not a Christian and the Bible says not to be unequally yoked with an unbeliever, I didn’t ACT on my feelings. That’s the deal right there. A married person can fall for another person, but they then have the choice to remain faithful in their marriage or destroy their family. There’s nothing psychological about it!

          • Ronald Carter

            Why are you discussing adultery when the subject is homosexuality? I never said anything about adultery being ok, why on earth would you say that?

        • gogo0

          some of the other commenters are flagging posts to get them deleted. not the racist ones in the other thread that refer to black people as “Black’ies” though, seems the majority of posters on this christian forum dont find that as offensive as debate

          • Ronald Carter

            Ah, well, I always like that phrase that says if you have to censor your opponents, by default you lose your argument.

  • Jolanda Tiellemans

    And this student wonders why he got expelled? I’m not.

  • Bertha Warren

    We usually take offense to the Truth. The Bible says Woe to those call evil good and call good evil.

  • Catherine Neill

    I was unable to obtain my AA degree because I simply cannot get through Psych 101 – that’s okay, though, because the Lord provided nicely for me..

  • Pererin

    More discrimination against Christians, how sad, how secular!

    • Ronald Carter

      Leave the homosexuals alone and they will leave you alone. Simple.

      • TheBottomline4This

        Your ignorance is your bliss 🙂

      • The Last Trump

        Says the guy trolling the Christian website!
        Too funny.

        • Ronald Carter

          You might try acting like a Christian.

          • The Last Trump

            You might wanna stick with topics you know something about.
            Christianity isn’t one of them.

          • Ronald Carter

            Well, all you post is sarcasm, mocking, hatred and anger. I’m not sure, but I’m sure Jesus had something else in mind. So you’ll excuse me if I don’t use you as a role model.

          • The Last Trump

            Yeah, yeah. “Hate, hate, hate” The liberal go to ploy when they’ve lost all debate. We’ve heard it all before. Know any other tunes?

          • Ronald Carter

            If it walks like a duck and hates like a duck…

          • The Last Trump

            And hates like a duck….And is intolerant like a duck….
            Then it’s a liberal!!

          • Ronald Carter

            Really, I think you’ll find it’s not the Liberals that are beating up the homosexuals. It’s you lot.

          • The Last Trump

            We’ve been beating up homosexuals?
            Hmmm. Woulda thought I’d remember THAT!
            Thanks for stalking the Christians on the Christian website, “Ron”, to inform us that WE’VE been beating up ANYBODY!
            Hee, hee! You hypocrites are a riot!

          • Ronald Carter

            Why the laughing, Last Trump? Isn’t it obvious you’re not on their side? In what sense am I hypocritical when I say let them live their lives as they see fit?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Hater! 🙂 But, it did earn you the Gold Medal recently, conferred upon you by the most vile. An extra jewel for your crown.

          • The Last Trump

            The awards just keep coming! 🙂
            But my REAL treasure is kept in a faaar away place.
            Where, if I’m not mistaken, yours is kept also. 😉

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Amen! BTW, Trump, I am seeing a lot more folks, out on the street, who are openly admitting that they DO want to go to Hell – to get as far away from us Christians and our God as possible. That’s not something I have typically seen out there before.

            My reply is easy: “God will say to you, ‘thy will be done.’ “

      • Pererin

        Your advice didn’t work out for the person in this story did it?
        All he was ‘guilty’ of was holding Christian beliefs. Of course, Christian beliefs are not acceptable today. He has been hounded out of his right to education. What happened to tolerance?

        • Ronald Carter

          Christian beliefs are absolutely acceptable, what’s with this hatred and homophobia you’re trying to include? I know many, many Christians who take no issue with homosexuality. I thought it was supposed to be all about following Jesus, you know, kindness, forgiveness, that sort of thing?

          • The Last Trump

            Ahh yes. Those whom the Bible calls “false” Christians and “apostates”.
            “From such turn away!” it declares.
            Yeah, those folks are popping up all over these days, aren’t they?
            Just like the Bible predicted would happen! What a book! 🙂

          • TheBottomline4This

            Amen!!! Not all who say they are Christians are.
            Matthew 7:21-23

          • Ronald Carter

            And never does it occur to you for even a moment that you yourself might BE one of those “false Christians”. Not hard to see why you might be mistaken for one – everything you post is angry and sarcastic.

          • The Last Trump

            Yeah, there’s a simple test for that.
            DO what the Good Book says you should do.
            And DON’T do the things it says you should not.
            Not rocket science Ron.
            And if you promote the things it says NOT to do, guess what category of “Christian” you would fall under? Take your time now….

          • Ronald Carter

            And what did Jesus say about homosexuality, Last Trump? Please. Take your time…

          • The Last Trump

            Nice try, trollster. Look it up.
            Everybody knows the Bible’s position on that particular topic.
            Open and shut.
            Hence the revisions taking place only NOW in a generation of shameful moral bankruptcy, hedonistic debauchery and depravity after so many generations of clear understanding and worldwide acceptance.
            Go figure.

          • Ronald Carter

            “Troll”?

            Isn’t it interesting how the Christians instantly go for the name-calling.

            I need to bring you back to the topic at hand, we are discussing Jesus’ words on homosexuality. We can discuss moral bankruptcy, hedonistic debauchery and depravity later if you like, they’re not relevant at the moment.

          • The Last Trump

            Asked and answered.
            The Bible is crystal clear on our Creator’s position on homosexuality.
            And on WHO wrote that Bible.
            Now, WHO is our Creator, Ron? WHO wrote the Bible?
            And what DID Jesus have to say about THAT? AND about marriage?
            Let me know when you’re done trolling and care for actual knowledge regarding what you clearly don’t understand.
            But forgive me if I don’t hold my breath.

          • Ronald Carter

            Asked by not answered. So we have now concluded that you are unable to find a single passage in the Bible in which Jesus directly condemns, or even addresses, the issue of homosexuality. Thank you.

          • The Last Trump

            Your conclusion is in error.
            As is your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.
            But keep stalking the Christians on the Christian website!
            You’re bound to learn something. Eventually.

          • Mary Quesenberry

            I explained it all to him above, Last Trump. You keep up the good work! Your answers are great!

          • Ronald Carter

            Except that he has not answered. Neither have you, Mary.

          • The Last Trump

            Sure we have, trollster. You just can’t comprehend it.
            Hey, Bible scholar!
            When did Jesus make His first appearance in the Bible?
            (I’ll give you a clue…it WASN’T in the New Testament!)

          • Ronald Carter

            So we have established, then, that Jesus said precisely nothing about homosexuality. Thank you, Last Trump.

          • The Last Trump

            “Ron” it doesn’t matter how many times you keep telling yourself that, it just doesn’t make it true. Reality just doesn’t work that way 🙁
            You’ve been spending too much time with liberal lefty’s Muffin!
            No wonder you’re so confused!
            You should check out fstdt dot com and read through all of the pearls of wisdom archived there by our devout followers. You’ll actually feel yourself getting smarter! No worries bud. You’re most welcome!
            And tell them TRUMP sent you!

          • Ronald Carter

            There was one thing you had to do, Last Trump, and you did not do it. You did not provide a case of Jesus Christ speaking specifically on the subject of homosexuality, whether pro or con. All we know is that as far as the Bible is concerned, he said nothing about it whatsoever. And you’ve tried self-righteously suggesting I read the Bible from cover to cover (which I have) but that’s smoke and mirrors and you know it. And guess what? Read it cover to cover yourself and give me a quote from Jesus about homosexuality. You won’t be able to do it. That suggests to me that YOU are the one who doesn’t know your own holy book.

          • The Last Trump

            Are you still talking continually about me? Still?
            Do you even remember what this article was about? No?
            Ahhh, another star struck stalker who just can’t get enough TRUMP!
            Back of the line, “Ron”. Trumpy’s followers are MANY!

          • Ronald Carter

            I’m sorry Last Trump, but it doesn’t make me a stalker to keep after you to prove to me what you said you COULD prove to me and yet have not even attempted to prove. You just treat every single word of the Bible as though it’s the word of Jesus verbatim and even most atheists can tell you that it’s NOT. Jesus spoke in the parts where he was quoted. He said nothing about homosexuality, you insisted that he DID, and how that you’re being called on it, you’re resorting to childish name calling. And I have to continually bring you back to the point that you’re trying so doggedly to evade.

          • The Last Trump

            “Ron” I’m sorry you don’t understand the Bible or the person of Christ.
            And I’m sorry you so doggedly evade answering my questions about the author of the Bible and the role of Jesus throughout. And flat out refuse to provide the passages from the Bible that support and condone sexual perversion. Any conversions yet, “Ron”? No?
            It’s not a wonder why you are so confused and angry.
            Take it up with God bud. I simply can’t help you to see past your blinders.
            Maybe you should pray about it and seek professional counsel, yes?
            Good luck!

          • Ronald Carter

            Excuse me Last Trump, but why is your utter and complete failure to find Jesus’s words on homosexuality any kind of indication that I don’t understand the Bible or Christ? What is it you are hoping to mine from things that Jesus DID NOT say?

            I’m not refusing to answer any of your questions. But I asked you first, and you’ve steadfastly refused to answer, while all the time cagily insisting you are right and in fact were reading his very words on the subject not so long ago. And you never asked for me to provide passages from the Bible condoning sexual perversion until now, but I fail to see how that is relevant. We are talking about homosexuality, not sexual perversion, and it’s very frustrating the way you keep evading and changing the subject and tossing in new challenges while all the time trying to detract attention from the fact that you are completely inable to provide a single, solitary word from Jesus Christ on the subject of homosexuality. I’ve calmly asked you several times now, and you call me names, and you rant, and you laugh, and you mock, and you are sarcastic (just as Jesus would do, LOL) and you project your own anger and confusion on me. Go have a re-read, Last Trump. I haven’t resorted to any of the same childish tactics you have. I’m just asking for a simple answer to what is a simple question. Don’t just sneer that you’re reading the answer as we speak. Tell me what it is. Don’t tell me to take it up with your version of God. Just spit it out, man.

          • The Last Trump

            Yikes!
            Talk about ranting!
            Looks like somebody is coming undone over there…
            Breathe “Ron”. Let go of your anger and hate. Seek the Lord while He may be found. Read the Bible. (King James version NOT Queen James bud).
            And live and let live Muffin! Remember? Stalking Christians on Christian websites desperately trying to convert them to hedonism and debauchery doesn’t only directly fly in the face of the “live and let live” mantra, but Its just going to drive you crazy with anger and hostility. And establish you as the King of Hypocrisy. You’re not a hypocrite, are you “Ron”? Are you?
            And remember, Jesus loves you little buddy!

          • Ronald Carter

            I’m not ranting or “coming undone”, Last Trump. I’m asking you to be honest, because you aren’t being honest. And it’s a simple request. Provide me with the information I’ve asked for which you claim to have but refuse to state.

            This isn’t anger. This isn’t hate. This is bringing you back to reality and keeping you focused on the matter at hand, which you clearly struggle with. I’m not interested in your proselytizing because I’m not a Christian. But I don’t need to be one to have you answer this very simple question – one you have stated you can answer but have shown no sign of being able to.

            Good heavens. “Stalking Christian websites.” Again, that bloated self-importance – of all the subjects in my life that interest me, Christians and their web forums is so far down the list it hardly registers. This isn’t about that, Last Trump. This is about honesty. So maybe you should stop trying to crowbar in all your talk about hedonism and depravity and debauchery. You keep pulling these things in out of left field and it’s not necessary. What I want you to do is provide the words from Jesus’ mouth about homosexuality – any words at all directly relating to it – or admit that you lied and were being deliberately deceptive when you claimed to have them.

            And now accusations of hypocrisy on top of everything else. Maybe it’s just me but I think a hypocrite is someone who says one thing and does another. Like claims to be a loving Christian but can only write condescending, sarcastic, and mocking words on a Christian web forum.

          • The Last Trump

            Wow.
            Your posts are getting longer and longer. And longer.
            Good thing you cleared up that you aren’t ranting and raving though.
            🙂

          • Ronald Carter

            You want short?
            You didn’t answer my question after repeated requests, and you have failed.
            No rants, no raves, just one very uncomfortable fact (for you).

          • hamfish

            Answer the man’s question.

          • Ronald Carter

            Once again, a touch of humility would suit you well, especially after you have been proven wrong. Jesus, as far as the Bible is concerned, was completely silent on the subject of homosexuality. Fact.

          • The Last Trump

            You proved something did you?
            Wrong again “Ron”.
            Fact.

          • Ronald Carter

            If it were a fact, Last Trump, you would have provided scripture containing Jesus’ own words condemning homosexuality. You failed to do this so why are you claiming victory?

            The challenge remains open, however. But it is a waste of your time. You won’t find the words of your savior condemning homosexuality. And that is because he didn’t. Now why don’t you be a good humble Christian and admit what everyone else can see? Is your pride not willing to allow it?

          • The Last Trump

            Challenge? What challenge? There was a challenge?
            ?
            You already lost this debate at “hello”!
            I mean, c’mon “Ron”! You don’t even understand WHO wrote the Bible!
            And then you want to “quote” Jesus! 🙂
            I think all of the Christians here are laughing at you Ronnie.
            It’s really not even fair for me to call THIS a “debate”!
            Keep studying bud.

          • Ronald Carter

            And so we have still established, then, that Jesus said precisely nothing about homosexuality. Thank you, Last Trump.

          • The Last Trump

            Established?
            Yes, we have certainly established that you have absolutely no idea who Jesus is and what He has actually said.
            Fortunately, we Christians do.

          • Ronald Carter

            It is not necessary to know everything Jesus said, that is not the challenge that was put to you, Last Trump. You cannot weasel out of this one. You were asked to give Jesus’ own words on the subject of homosexuality, and you failed to do so. And you’re now attempting to be morally superior in your failure.

          • The Last Trump

            I failed the challenge!? ??
            Yeah. That must be it.
            Go with that. “Ron”.
            🙂
            Hey, any luck converting anyone today from Christianity to hedonism and depravity? No? Really? Still?
            Shocker.
            Keep at it, obsessive one.
            There’s got to be somebody out there who has had enough peace and happiness and just longs for misery.

          • Ronald Carter

            Yes. You failed to give me Jesus’ own words on homosexuality which you insisted were there. They are not.

            How droll that you are so black and white on the issue of faith. There’s either your brand of Christianity (denomination #21,755) or hedonism. Nothing in between, eh? No Buddhism? No Muslims? Or do they fall into the “hedonism” camp? Well, at least Buddhists don’t consider homosexuality sinful so they can’t be all THAT bad, eh?

            Also, I’m not obsessive. I’m just persistent. I want to see if there’s a piece of you that is willing to say you were wrong after being so proven.

            Peace and happiness you say. Which we all deserve…including homosexuals.

          • The Last Trump

            You PROVED something, now!!??
            Pray tell!
            Hee, hee!
            Oh “Ron”! How can I be wrong when I am SOOOO right!
            I’m reading the words of Jesus condemning samesex relationships as we speak. My goodness, He was so very clear about His revulsion at such perverse behaviour, wasn’t He!

          • Ronald Carter

            I proved something? Yes, I proved that Jesus was silent on homosexuality. How many times do you need to hear this, Last Trump? You provided no words from Jesus relating specifically to homosexuality. And here you are AGAIN, saying you are “SOOOO right” about it. You’re not, sir. I’m sorry. You failed.

            In fact, for someone who accuses others of troll-like behavior, you’re indulging in some yourself when you sit here telling me you’re reading the words of Jesus on same sex relationships……………..but naturally don’t state what they are. I mean, come on. You’re basically gloating about being wrong now. “Clear about his revulsion”? Was he now? Did he visit you personally and tell you that, because he certainly didn’t in the Bible.

          • The Last Trump

            Oh “Ron”! I hope you are not fool enough to limit yourself to believe only what commenters post on social media, are you!?
            I “provided no words”??!! So that’s it then!?
            Yikes! You’re going to allow me to dictate what is and isn’t in the Bible!!??
            Go to the source, Muffin! Always go to the source!
            I let God speak for Himself “Ron”. I just point people in the right direction.
            God takes care of the rest.
            Seek Him “Ron”. Or do NOT seek Him. It’s your life bud.
            Your salvation begins and ends with YOU. 🙂

          • Ronald Carter

            Last Trump, I’m not sure what you’re talking about. I think you are trying to crowbar in other unrelated issues again to avoid answering the question put to you. You provided no words – precisely. Why didn’t you? Why don’t you? What is stopping you? You claim to have them. You bragged earlier about reading them as you typed to me. But you steadfastly will not state them.

            I’m not allowing you to dictate what is and what isn’t in the Bible – another idea from your own mind, completely unrelated and coming out of left field that you are trying to confuse this very straightforward issue with.

            I am going to the source, Last Trump. You are the source. You were the one who claimed to have Jesus’ words on the matter of homosexuality. That makes you the source. Stay on topic please. Stay focused. Knock off the sarcasm. Knock off the smugness. Answer the question, and we can be done with this matter.

          • The Last Trump

            Again, already asked and answered. And by more than one commenter as it turns out, who I see you just flat out ignored. Shocker.
            And, WE can be done with this matter?!
            🙂
            Oh “Ron”! You are just adorable!
            “We” are very done. One of us just happens to be in denial.
            Or is it wilful blindness?
            And I can no longer waste any more of my time on your nonsense.
            Alas, I shall give you one final opportunity to further your education on Christianity should you desire and truly learn something about the people you despise so much and stalk daily.
            WHO wrote the Bible “Ron”? WHO?
            Think carefully now. Answer incorrectly and this discussion is at an end.
            Avoid answering, and this discussion is at an end.

          • Ronald Carter

            Again, asked and not answered. NEVER answered, actually. But I know the fundamentalist trick you are trying to spring on me. It lies in Timothy 3:16 and says “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”. A convenient catch-all for you, unfortunately seriously in error because the Bible in fact had hundreds of authors. So if that was your shortcut way of saying that Jesus uttered all the homophobic lines in the Bible, you’re so off base I can’t believe you call yourself a Christian.

            I’m not interested in other commenters (but if I saw their comment and found it worthy of response I would have responded). I’m not being adorable. I’m not in denial. I’m not ANYTHING that you keep dragging to avoid answering the VERY SIMPLE and VERY BASIC question you’ve had put to you which is not asking for scripture, not asking for the words of the apostles, etc. I want the words of Jesus relating specifically to homosexuality, Last Trump, and without providing that, you have failed spectacularly.

          • Sir Osis

            Excuse me, but I was just wondering something – you call a lot of men “Muffin”. Are you a homosexual?

          • The Last Trump

            Seriously?
            ANOTHER profile Val!? You’re a sick puppy Jocasta.
            Get some help bud.

          • Sir Osis

            Hey Trump, you call lots of men “Muffin”. Couldn’t help noticing. Are you, by any chance, a homosexual? Because if a man called me “Muffin” in real life, I’d think he was hitting on me. Are you gay, Trumpy?

          • Mary Quesenberry

            Read my message up above – should clear everything up for you.

          • Ronald Carter

            I did. It didn’t.

          • The Last Trump

            See Bible.
            Try Google.
            Call a church.
            You’ll get the same answer.

          • Ronald Carter

            Which church should I call, can you recommend one out of the 35 thousand denominations, preferably the one that contains the most God?

            And “the same answer”? I think you know you’re WAYYYY off base with that one.

          • The Last Trump

            Call them all.
            They all support traditional marriage and naturally condemn homosexuality.
            As do almost all religions worldwide. (I think Satanism’s ok with it, yes?)
            Weird huh?

          • Ronald Carter

            Do you really need me to post a list of Christian groups here who take no issue with homosexuality, Last Trump? You know I can do it.

          • august589

            Jesus didn’t address homosexuality directly because his focus was mainly to the Jews who already believed that homosexuality is a sin. However, Matthew 19:4-6 notes the position that Jesus takes on marriage–and it’s the time-honored position that was the convention for the past few millennia.

          • Mary Quesenberry

            He DID direct homosexuality directly – read my message above and there are other places, as well, that describe how God feels about homosexuality.

          • gogo0

            uh-oh, a disagreement on an interpretation of the bible!
            that means that one of you is not a TRUE christian! but which one??

          • hamfish

            Atheist Christian.

          • Bob Johnson

            You forgot to mention you can ignore the rules in the Old Testament except of course for the Ten Commandments. And Catholics are not Christian because they have statues of Mary which is forbidden in the Ten Commandments.

          • Pererin

            Absolutely Ron, isn’t Jesus amazing?
            Hatred? How dare you! We hate no one. We love our brothers and sisters just as Jesus commanded. Just because you want to blindly wander into depravity doesn’t mean that I’m about to let my brothers and sisters follow you down that deadly spiral. You can reject God’s laws if you like, I pray you don’t, I’m sure you’re a great guy Ron, but the route you a displaying is one opposite to the path commanded in the Bible by Jesus. Don’t follow what a few Christians say, read the Bible. It’s clear enough. There are a lot of Christians who don’t read the Bible, that’s a big problem. They confuse people like yourself about what the Bible clearly says. But I’m sure you’re better than that. Do yourself a favour. Read God’s word for yourself. Find the truth and as I’m sure you’ve already heard, the truth will set you free!

          • Ronald Carter

            Yes, you love your brothers and sisters except for the homosexual ones whom you unfairly call “depraved”. Here’s a little reality check for you Pererin – you don’t represent Christianity with beliefs like those. You represent a SPECIFIC KIND of Christianity, and it’s a specific kind that many people choose to steer clear of precisely because of your attitude to homosexuals. You might have greater numbers in fact if people weren’t so turned off by this cruelty.

          • The Last Trump

            Yes, I believe the Bible calls it TRUE Christianity.
            Authentic. And faithful.
            And yes, the false Christians avoid it like the plague.

          • Ronald Carter

            I believe that’s known as the No True Scotsman fallacy. You determine yourself the rules of Christianity according to what you like (and hate) and deem everyone else false. And they do the same thing to you (but I’m guessing with not nearly the same amount of vitriol).

          • The Last Trump

            I don’t determine anything. Or twist and contort clear scriptures on marriage and sexuality in vain and transparent attempts to try to make it say what it clearly does not. That’s your baby, bud.

          • Ronald Carter

            If it was as clear and transparent as you claim it is, bud, why do you disagree with 35 thousand other denominations, also calling themselves Christian? Quite honestly if I was going shopping for a loving and sensible Christian denomination, you wouldn’t even be considered bargain basement caliber.

          • The Last Trump

            Wow! 35 thousand denominations!
            And they ALL opposed samesex marriage up until THIS depraved generation!
            Huh. Must be something to that then, huh Ron?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            It used to be 17,000. Really, it is however many atheists make up.

          • The Last Trump

            I don’t need to agree with 35 thousand man made denominations my friend.
            I have only to comply with the Word of God, of which, most contradict.
            It’s such a simple concept, it’s unthinkable! So men complicated it.
            Don’t listen to THEM. Follow the Word. Period.

          • Ronald Carter

            How remarkable that of the 35 thousand you picked the correct one! Give yourself a pat on the back!

          • Pererin

            I believe it was you who started making claims over who were the true Christians, so why are you any different to Tramp?

          • Ronald Carter

            I never said who the true Christians were. It’s not my place. Just like it’s not his place, nor yours. There are over 35 thousand denominations of Christianity, all disagreeing with each other. Which is what makes a denomination that discriminates against homosexuals very difficult to take seriously.

          • Pererin

            Then why comment on it at all? Who are you to question Trump? As you said, it’s not your place. Are you even a Christian? If not, how can make any comment at all about true Christianity?

          • Ronald Carter

            In exactly the same way I can write in a forum about cats without being a cat.

            I can be interested in faith without belonging to one. And for every Christian out there annoyed with me for standing up for homosexuals, there are probably a couple more who are glad to see someone standing up for them.

          • Pererin

            And if a dog went on a forum about cats he would have no understanding of the life of a cat and get it all wrong. Of course the dog can be interested in cats, he’s still not going to understand what its like to be a cat though is he.
            I’ll repeat, I’m sorry there are many Christians out there who fail to accept God word and confuse non-Christians.

          • Ronald Carter

            I can read about Christians and decide whether I want to be one depending on what I read. Some Christians make me want to be one and some make me want to run as far in the other direction as possible. So that’s why I find it interesting to be here. Doesn’t mean I need to agree with everything I read.

            I’m sorry you fail to accept other Christians as Christians because they don’t meet your standards, too. Fortunately, that’s not the litmus test that determines whether one is Christian or not.

          • Pererin

            That’s the point, they are not my standards. They are God’s standards. I’ve asked you to give me a biblical reason not believe that homosexuality is a sin and you cannot give me a reason. What do you think that means? Of course you wouldn’t want to be a Christian that is against they way you want to live. You want to take the best bits of the Bible and throw away the bits that challenge your beliefs. That’s anyone in the world who isn’t a Chrisitan. As Jesus said, you are either with me or against me. We need to make the choice. You can’t take a bit of Jesus and a spoonful of humanism with a dash of atheism.

          • Mary Quesenberry

            But the Bible IS!

          • The Last Trump

            Those of us who truly love them present the truth.
            No matter how unpopular or unattractive. It’s called genuine Christianity.

          • Ronald Carter

            There isn’t a human being alive qualified to call something genuine Christianity. You all disagree with one another. Maybe you should have some conversations with each other, bring that 35 thousand number down a bit.

          • Mary Quesenberry

            GOD calls it genuine Christianity!

          • Ronald Carter

            When did he do that? Did he tell you personally?

          • Pererin

            Unfairly, please explain why? The Bible says it sinful. It’s that simple. Please guide me to the place in the Bible which states otherwise. I am merely giving you the message of the Bible, the word of God. I don’t care about numbers. All I want to do is know God and to spread his word. What you are doing is guiding them away from God. This is not a good thing. Not good for God and definitely not good for my brothers and sisters whom I love dearly. You and your kin are corrupting them and it’s unacceptable to God. Although Ron, God is merciful. Jesus died so that we may be saved. All is not lost. Jesus loves you. He wants us no matter what we have done in the past. He’s amazing and we all need Him.

          • Ronald Carter

            Here are some possibilities for you to consider:

            1) the Bible is wrong (let’s call that the atheist position)
            2) your translation is wrong
            3) the word “homosexual” didn’t exist at that time
            4) there are many who feel those passages refer to male prostitution
            5) those who wrote those words were not speaking on God’s behalf (not so hard to believe if you think about it, I could write a book tomorrow and say it was “divinely inspired” too, would you believe me if I said it was God’s words?)

            And ask yourself why other Christians disagree with you and have no problem with homosexuality. False Christians I hear you say. OK then, what is the definition of a Christian, and why must it include a position on homosexuality being right or wrong?

          • Pererin

            Can we agree that Christians would agree that the Bible is correct and that of all the translations that we have today, none say male prostitution. There is a very good reason for that. Even today, they still don’t say that. They all describe the sin of homosexuality. Of the course the word didn’t exist at that time but it is clearly described.

            The bible says why some Chrisitians disagree, it’s because they have put themselves above God. They have taken on the religion of the day and tried to emalgamate Christianity with it.

          • Ronald Carter

            It’s true that none may say male prostitution, but in all fairness they should not say homosexuality either, since that word wasn’t even coined until 1869. And I think what we should agree on is that since no two Christian sects have come to a consensus on the matter, no one should walk around proclaiming for certain that it’s a sin.

          • Mary Quesenberry

            When other “Christians” disagree with what the Bible says about homosexuality, they are disagreeing with God, and it’s more than likely that they are not Christians at all, but wolves in sheeps’ clothing. The definition of a Christian is one who follows the Lord Jesus Christ – and it HAS TO include a position on homosexuality being wrong because it’s an abomination to God!

          • Ronald Carter

            What if the Bible is wrong, and can be proven yo be wrong about homosexuality?

          • Ronald Carter

            Well, as I thought we had already established, it isn’t quite so cut and dried that that’s what the Bible says at all. You have elected to believe that, and largely due to the findings of psychiatric medicine I have come to the conclusion that if that is in fact what the Bible says about it, the Bible must be incorrect. More to the point, it’s difficult to imagine why a God who created homosexuals would disapprove of them. You should be a little bit more honest and transparent that you are not giving me the word of God, but rather the word of God as you have come to understand it. And those are very different things.

          • Mary Quesenberry

            II Timothy 3:16 says ALL Scripture is given by inspiration (it’s God-breathed) of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. So when you ask for Jesus’ own words, you’re getting them in any part of the Bible, even though He allowed men from all walks of life, different ages, across hundreds of years to participate in the writing of it. In Romans 1:18-32 says that He abandoned evil people who decide not to follow Him over to their own evil desires. They turned away from God’s original and natural plan for sex and began to lust for others of their own sex. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness and they even invented new ways of sinning. They know that God’s justice requires that everyone that does these things die, yet they do them anyway and encourage others to join them in their evil. I Corinthians 6:9-11 says “Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the kingdom of God? Those who indulge in . . . homosexuality (and other things, but you’re asking about homosexuals). . . will not inherit the kingdom of God. Some of you used to be like that, but you were cleansed, made holy and made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. I Timothy 1:8-10 says “. . .the law is not laid down for the just, but for . . .men who practice homosexuality (again there’s more sins listed, but I’m answering your question) . . . and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine. And Jude 7 says “And don’t forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God’s judgment.” God never created homosexuals – He created people who CHOSE the homosexual lifestyle. This is not the Word of God as I have come to understand it – the Bible is God’s LIVING Word and is as relevant today as it was 2000+ years ago. If the findings of psychiatric medicine differ from what the Bible says, then THEY are wrong!!!

        • Jack_Carter_USA

          Christian beliefs are one thing. Saying you will refuse to follow the same rules of the degree program which everyone else has to follow but instead demand special rights because Jesus is another.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Special rights? LOL that is what gays and trans do all the time.

          • Jack_Carter_USA

            Is he saying he gets to ignore the rules everyone else has to follow because he’s Christian? Yes? Then he’s demanding special rights.

      • august589

        Baloney! Homosexuals do not want “tolerance”–they want acceptance and approval and they won’t leave anyone alone until they get what they want.

        • BarkingDawg

          What’s wrong with acceptance?

          Most people seem to be able to do it.

          It is, after all, a “Christian” virtue.

        • Ronald Carter

          Exactly! Acceptance and approval. Just like everyone else. So why would you deny them that?

          • Mary Quesenberry

            Why would you deny drug users, pedophiles, adulterers, murderers acceptance and approval? Just like everyone else!

          • Ronald Carter

            Those are abusive and destructive behaviors you listed. You cannot compare any of them with homosexuality, which is consensual and hurts no one.

          • Bob Johnson

            When a priest hears confession, he does accept who they are. He then provides advice and prays for their soul. A counselor like a priest can accept without approval, and can give guidance where it conflicts with personal beliefs.

    • gizmo23

      When he gets his own practice he can do what he wants, but now he has to do what is required of the program.
      What if a med student said he didn’t believe that germs caused disease, would it be OK for him not to learn about bacteria?

      • The Last Trump

        Only if the bacteria claimed to be gay. Or transgendered bacteria.
        Or fully grown male bacteria who identified as a six year old girl.
        You know. THAT.
        Because he should know full well that that just doesn’t exist outside of the loony world of the liberal left.

      • Pererin

        Hi Gizmo, it’s been a while. Please explain how your example has any relevance to the discussion.

        • gizmo23

          Learning and practical experience is needed to become a professional. Once in practice he can focus on what he wants until then he needs to learn the required aspects of the job.

          • Pererin

            So to get an education you are not allowed to have a faith?

          • gizmo23

            You most certainly can have a faith, but you don’t get to pick and choose what you will learn if you want a degree. Someone in a theology school can’t say “I don’t believe in other religions so I’m not going to take any classes on them” and expect to get a theology degree. A teacher can’t think that Jews are of Satan and refuse to student teach Jewish kids, and then demand a teaching license, and yes things like that have happened.

          • Pererin

            Once again you have used an unrealistic example. Why would anyone go on a course to study God then not go to the classes about God. In this instance, a tiny part of a counselling course was being objected to. Why shouldn’t he had the right to object to what he believes is wrong? If he does the course work, passes the exams, he is capable. All this man has done is disagree with these new ethics being wrongly enforced. Why has this become a problem recently? 10, 20, 30 years ago, this would not have happened, what has changed. The Bible, the word of God, certainly hasn’t.

      • BarkingDawg

        He won’t get certified by the professional association whose ethical rules he violated.

        no certification, no license to practice.

        • gizmo23

          You might be correct

    • Jack_Carter_USA

      Yes, how dare he be required to follow the same rules as everyone else in the degree program and not get special rights because Jesus.

      • Pererin

        Yes, because Jesus. So no more Christian counsellors allowed. There we are. That’s all we I needed to know. No more Christian counsellors in secular America.

        • Jack_Carter_USA

          How do you get “no more Christian counsellors” from being told that Jesus doesn’t magically give you immunity from the rules? This isn’t Survivor, you know. Or maybe you have a persecution complex so big you could give Todd Starnes a run for his money.

          • Pererin

            Come on, a Christian with Christian views was kicked off a course because of his Christian views. Of course a Christian can’t be a counsellor in that situation. He’s not going to deny his faith is he.

          • Ronald Carter

            I repeat my question: Where, in the definition of a Christian, is there a position on homosexuality that must be adhered to?

          • The Last Trump

            Read Bible.
            Begin in Genesis. End in Revelation. And then get back to us,
            You’re welcome Ron.

          • Ronald Carter

            Well, Last Trump, I did that, and I’m still PRETTY sure you’re mistaken. How about that?

            Let’s make it simple. Let’s call a Christian someone who holds to the
            teachings of Jesus Christ. (Assuming you won’t take too much issue with that).

            Now I repeat my earlier question to you: What did Jesus say about homosexuality? Not the Bible. Jesus. What did he say? Give me direct quotes if you can.

          • The Last Trump

            Keep fishing bud.
            And while you’re at it, feel free to directly quote where Jesus condoned it.
            We’ll wait.
            Your ignorance of the Bible is quite apparent as is your clear lack of understanding of the role of Jesus throughout. Not JUST in the NT.
            Further study is in order.
            No worriers bud. Classic rookie mistake.

          • Ronald Carter

            If you’re unable to answer the question, the simplest course of action is to simply state that you cannot answer the question. I mean, Jesus quotes are in abundance and very easy to find online. I have been trying for years to find Jesus’ words on homosexuality but I always come up empty.

            Condoning it? Is it really fair to give Jesus a position on the matter when he’s entirely silent on the subject? Not much logic in that, is there…after all, Jesus said nothing about the computer you’re typing on either, so should we assume he doesn’t want you using it?

            Further study is in order? Really? And you can’t even answer this very simple question?

          • The Last Trump

            I can and have.
            Can you?

          • Pererin

            Why would a Chrisitan ignore the Bible? Doesn’t sound very Christian to me?

          • BobM1

            What did Jesus say about Rape ?

          • Ronald Carter

            Nothing. Why do you ask?

            Rape = abuse.
            Homosexuality = consensual.

          • BobM1

            Would you think that Jesus would think that they were both sin ?
            I only ask because Jesus was a very strict Jew.

          • Ronald Carter

            No, I personally believe Jesus would take no issue with homosexuality, as long as two people are in a loving and monogamous relationship.

          • BobM1

            I personally think that he would, the old testament was very stern in its view of homosexuality as you know, monogamy has nothing to do with how he would have viewed it.

          • Ronald Carter

            Given what we know about homosexuality now that they didn’t know about it at the time of the Bible, I stand by my answer. I don’t think Jesus would have taken issue with two people committed to one another.

          • BobM1

            Christianity is about following the teachings of Jesus Christ, if you prefer to follow what your own feelings rather than what the Bible says then there is no need of a Bible, and you can make God in your own image.I find many things offensive to my own way of thinking when I am reading the Bible but I put my own feeling on one side in the hope of the greater benefit of my fellow man and myself. We can disagree till the cows come home and I think that we will leave this conversation no better off. but I leave you with this thought, If I am wrong about what I believe then I will stand before your God which will forgive me everything,and i will go to heaven regardless,and if you are an atheist I will just rot and the worms will eat me. But if I am right and the love I have shown by not wanting you to suffer the things that we can all suffer because of our own unbelief, then I leave you to ponder the consequences. All the best.

          • BobM1

            What if the Bible is correct ?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            The simple answer there is that Jesus, as God, is considered to be the Author of the Bible, meaning it is ALL His words.

            Sorry for interjecting myself into your conversation with Trump – I just liked your question.

          • Green Loogy

            Jesus IS Lord….That means GOD for you false Christians out there

          • Ronald Carter

            Cool story bro.

          • hamfish

            Yeah bro, cool story.

          • Green Loogy

            Go back to living in your mmo gaming world bro there is your cool story

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Could you please explain those steps again, Trump: it sounds so “complicated.” 🙂

          • Ronald Carter

            I think he got a bit lost somewhere after “In the beginning” and before “smite the earth with a curse”, lol.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            I love your sense of humor, Ron!

            Just remember, it took secular cosmologists about 150 years before the moved off the past eternal universe just to get them to the point where they now agree with the first 3 words of the Bible. That, to me, is fairly interesting. Maybe there are some more science-Bible consistencies out there?

          • hamfish

            I have. More than once. Its still a load of anachronistic nonsense and mumbo-jumbo.

          • Pererin

            A Christian must strive to turn to God and away from sin.
            Jesus died for our sins. The Bible describes Homosexuality as a sin.
            Do you see the problem?

          • Ronald Carter

            Yes, I do see the problem. You believe your holy book calls homosexuality a sin, and science has proven that it is natural. I don’t know about you, but that would get me to rethink my holy book. Or at least that one aspect of it.

          • Pererin

            No, science has not proven that it’s natural. Just because it a popular view in society today, it doesn’t make it true. Science certainly does not show that homosexuality is natural. Does the fact that it hasn’t make you question your view of homosexuality?

          • Ronald Carter

            Are you actually serious? Of course science has proven it’s natural, and have found that it occurs all through the animal kingdom.

          • Pererin

            Come on now, this is far from proof of homosexuality being natural and acceptable behaviour. Animals all rape, kill, steal and cannibalise. Does that make them natural and therefore acceptable behaviour? Of course not.

          • Ronald Carter

            You are changing the subject. We are talking about science proving that homosexuality is natural, which it has done as we see throughout the animal kingdom.

          • Pererin

            How am I changing the subject? This is not proof that homosexuality is natural. By your logic, rape, killing one another, stealing and cannibalism are all natural because are we see them throughout the animal kingdom. It’s not science, it is simply observing animal behaviour. The Bible claims all those behaviours to be sinful. God is the authority deciding good and evil. Through science, we observe various behaviours, but if you have not authority, no absolutes, no good, no evil, how do you decide right and wrong? Do they even exist to you? Is it just a matter of popular opinion? Didn’t work out too well for Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot did it? They rejected God’s authority and used their own judgement for good and evil, look what happened.
            60 years ago, a baby in the womb was a person. Abortion was illegal because we were using God as our authority for right and wrong. Move forward to today, we have rejected God as our authority, substituting His authority for our own. We move the goal posts, changing the rules, make good, bad and bad, good. Today, hundreds of thousands of people who, if conceived 60 years ago, would be protected, they would be alive, walking around. But today they are killed. Good and bad has been flipped. Authority over right and wrong has changed. Millions, maybe billions have been murdered since. All because you want to reject God and decide right and wrong for yourself.

          • Ronald Carter

            No, you are changing the subject. We are discussing homosexuality existing in nature and that science knows this. You, for some odd reason, are electing now to talk about all these moral issues like rape and killing and stealing. The point of bringing up homosexuality being natural was not to zero in on certain practices in the animal kingdom which, if practiced by human beings, would be considered immoral. The point was to show that homosexuality is innate, and not CHOSEN, as so many of you seem to insist. Does a gay penguin make a choice to not be attracted to all the female penguins? Of course not. It simply has a natural attraction, as we all do, and follows it.

          • Pererin

            No, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t choose to interperet what behaviour is innate and and what is not. The behaviour is exactly the same. Animals do awful things in our eyes, I’ve given you a list of examples. These behaviours are seen throughout the animal kingdom, every species, all animals. What’s more, we don’t even know what the behaviour means. If a dog loves to hump an owner leg does that mean that dogs have an innate need to partake in cross-species sex? Of course not. This is not a science it’s guess work. They are simply trying to follow patterns, trying to identify something that makes sense with the tiny portion on information that they have.
            If you want to say that homosexuality is natural, then by observing animals, so is rape, murder, stealing and cannibalism, probably paedophilia too. They are animals. They behave like animals. But we are not animals, God has set us apart. We are made in His image. Animals were not.

          • Ronald Carter

            You missed the point again, even after I explained it. The point of homosexuality occurring naturally was brought up to show how it is innate and not chosen. It was NOT brought up to talk about what is and what is not moral behavior, and I’m not TRYING to have it both ways. People like you do this all the time – we point out to you that homosexuality happens in nature and you think you’re springing this great trap when you say “yeah but animals eat their young too, yuck! Gross! Why would you want to compare our behavior to animals?” The thing is – we aren’t TALKING about behavior. You are doing that and you’re being dishonest about it.

            But if that’s what you want to talk about, I can certainly do that, too. We cannot compare moral behaviors with those of the animal kingdom because we have specific human morals. And guess what? Being homosexual doesn’t violate those morals, either, because in a consensual homosexual relationship, no one is being hurt or abused.

          • Pererin

            Nope, you want it both ways. What is the difference? They are all behaviours linked to survival. CHOSEN by the animal depending on their situation. There is no difference. But you refuse to allow yourself to accept this because you know what it means. It means that you have no reason to acknowledge good and evil.
            Yes we do have specific human morals, different to animals, I agree. They come from God. The Bible gives us our morals. Western civilization has been built on them. Where do you think they come from if not from an absolute authority?

          • Ronald Carter

            Are you even listening to yourself? Look at the words you are using: “good”, “evil”, “morals” – all of which are about judging and behavior and nothing to do with the simple issue of that which occurs naturally. You seem to need to hear this over and over: the point of homosexuality being natural is that IT IS NOT CHOSEN. And the reason you need to be told this is because you and many other Christians insist that it IS chosen. It is NOT chosen, it is innate. If you cannot stay on topic without drifting into what is good and bad and immoral, there is no point in having this discussion.

            If you DO want to discuss the morality of homosexuality, start another conversation.

          • Pererin

            It is only not chosen in your world. Just because you say it over and over, without any evidence doesn’t make it true. You can’t just make things up, it’s chosen because your say it is. That is what your are saying. Where is your evidence that homosexuality is a chosen BEHAVIOUR. Yes a behaviour. You just refuse to acknowledge this to avoid the whole moral debate. They are one and the same. You are dodging the true issue. Stop making things up and face the problem head on. Homosexuality in animals is the same as the other animalistic behaviours I listed. You have no reason state otherwise oaths that because you said so, or more accurately, what the liberal society is preaching.

          • Ronald Carter

            Where is my evidence? Well, I think you know the answer to that. You can start with the American Psychological Association website, and if you’re one of those people who distrusts them because of the tired old lie that they gave in to pressure from a gay lobby in the 1970s to have homosexuality removed as a disorder, that still leaves you with MANY other bodies of science, such as the American Psychiatric Association, American Counseling Association, National Association of Social Workers in the USA, the Royal College of Psychiatrists, Australian Psychological Society, and the Pan American Health Organization to name just a few.

            And these aren’t organizations with a political ax to grind. They study this stuff and work with it daily. They know very well what they’re talking about.

            Finally, it’s downright ridiculous to call homosexuality a behavior. It’s not a behavior. It’s a state of being. You can be a homosexual and never touch another human being, it’s about your attraction.

            Now tell me what I’ve made up in anything I’ve said, please.

          • Pererin

            You know fully well that there is no such thing as neutral ground here. You have once again failed to give an evidence supporting your position. Giving a list of people who support your view does nothing but make yourselves look foolish for believing in something without evidence and without authority. It’s all in your head, you have bought the lie. It’s only rediculous to you because it must be to perpetuate the lie. You say its rediculous, but fail to give any evidence to support your claim. That is rediculous.

          • Ronald Carter

            It’s getting harder and harder to take you seriously. I did not present you with a “list of people”. I presented you with a list of science-based mental health organizations who are EXPERTS in the field we are talking about. They aren’t working from opinions, they ARE working with evidence. AND authority. On what basis do you say their factual findings are a lie? Because your church tells you?

          • Pererin

            Getting pedantic now Ron? Scientists make assumptions and create models from the available information all the time. This is what is at work here. As I stated, there is no evidence for innate homosexuality. They are simply creating hypotheses along with their chosen worldview. You have been taken in by your own chief priests. To you, what a socially acceptable scientists says is gospel. As I said, there is no such thing as neutrality. There is always an agenda. So at the end of the day, they are really all opinions, ideas if you like, as no evidence has been found. My authority however is God, science has not given me reason to belief otherwise either.

          • Ronald Carter

            Science isn’t making assumptions here. Once again, your words reveal more about you than I think you intend: “chief priests”? These AREN’T priests, and this isn’t faith. This is the OPPOSITE of faith, it’s knowledge, it’s facts. And facts ARE neutral. Facts HAVE no agenda. One of the saddest things I ever witness is someone steadfastly clinging to a religion or a holy book after the words in that holy book have been proven to be incorrect. This is a prime example of that. You are trying to make science a matter of faith and speculation when it isn’t.

          • Pererin

            Science doesn’t make assumptions, but scientists do. No scientist is neutral. That is what I was saying. I’ve continually asked for evidence, these neutral facts but you have continually failed to provide any. This is were the faith is with you. You have faith in the scientists. You don’t question them. There are no neutral facts yet you lay your beliefs on them. Therefore they are your chief priests, your authority whom you trust unwavering, every bit as religious or zealous as any Christian.

          • Ronald Carter

            It doesn’t matter if scientists are neutral or not, that’s the beautiful thing about science. It’s right whether you agree with it or not, and scientists go along with what they find to be factual. The facts are there, right there on the APA website, you’ve been referred to them, but for some reason continue to pretend they don’t exist. Why are you doing that?

          • Pererin

            Of course it matters if scientists are neutral. Scientific data is interpreted. If a scientist holds a particular belief, it skews the interpretation. Again, science isn’t the problem, the information isn’t the problem, it’s the people interpreting the information, that is the problem because they don’t care what the data says. For example, your beloved APA freely admit that there is no scientific consensus regarding why people are homosexual, they admit that they don’t know why, whether it’s choice or not, however, that does not stop them from preaching their world view for their believers to eat up. You don’t seem to know what the APA are saying exactly yet you use them falsely to support your arguement. You have a lot more faith than I do, that’s for sure.

          • Bob Johnson

            Nobody can provide this evidence in a few short paragraphs. The information you wants is in tons of paper, or today in gigabytes of data files.

            I remember reviewing the literature on DDT in the early 1970s. Hundreds of papers, dozens of organizations. You could tell the better papers by reading the next to last section (just before Summary), this is where the authors describe the weaknesses in their methodology and what experiments would prove them wrong.

            Such is science.

          • Pererin

            My point was that there is no evidence, and there isn’t.

          • Bob Johnson

            There is plenty of well researched evidence. You fail to accept or refute it. You have been provide with a list of organizations which has sponsored the research.

            The only evidence for a complex problem that can be presented in this format are pointers to the actual research. Claiming there is no evidence does not make it go away.

          • Pererin

            I gave evidence please read through the discussion.

          • hamfish

            Only God is not real. I knew that before I’d even stopped believing in Santa.

          • Pererin

            Yeah, cool story bro.

          • BobM1

            Could you please give evidence of ‘Gay penguines’ ?

          • Ronald Carter

            Yes.
            https://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Roy_and_Silo

          • hamfish

            There’s plenty, It has been documented since 1911.

          • Cady555

            Counselors do not exist to push their religious opinions on clients. If they cannot put aside their own baggage and focus on the needs of the client, they do not deserve to be therapists.

          • Pererin

            Well there wasn’t a problem with being a Christian holding these beliefs and being a counsellor before has there. What has changed?

          • Cady555

            The therapist can hold any beliefs they want. They cannot let personal opinion interfere with client care. The client has no need to know what the therapist believes, or anything about the therapist’s personal life.

          • Pererin

            Of course they can’t have any faith they want, this story proves it. This man has had his beliefs trampled on. He wants to be a counsellor, but doesn’t want his faith to be compromised at the same time. But it has not been allowed.

          • Cady555

            Why is it that some people cannot grasp that one can hold opinions and at the very same time not force them on others? It really is not difficult.

            His beliefs were not being trampled on. He, like all therapists, is just expected to keep his own stuff private.

            Let’s say your therapist was vegan, and you need to work through dealing with difficult family at the annual family pig roast. You should leave the session with no idea about the therapist’s opinion of eating meat, because the therapy is about your stuff, not theirs.

            If a person needs help woth

          • Pererin

            He hasn’t forced his beliefs on anyone. It was the college that forced their beliefs on him. All he wanted to do was preserve his purity in God. Hold to his beliefs. As I have said, this has been made impossible. In your examples you are suggesting that this man has said he would not treat a homosexual person because of his beliefs. This is not what happened here. He simple didn’t want to participate in a homosexual focused activity. Th is suggests that, he would of course treat a homosexual person, but if the person needed counselling with the patient’s homosexuality, he would either give him advice along the lines of his faith or refer the patient on to a more secular minded counsellor. Which would be perfectly acceptable.

          • BobM1

            I suppose that applies to homosexual councillors who cannot reconcile their views to Christian teaching ?

          • Cady555

            Absolutely. Same rules.

          • Jack_Carter_USA

            No, he was kicked off the course because he wouldn’t follow the requirements. You know, just like anyone else would be if they refuse to follow the rules. Would you say the same thing if a Muslim refused to counsel people whom he claimed went against his religion?

          • Mary Quesenberry

            It wouldn’t – Muslims would have no problem beating the requirements!

          • Ronald Carter

            Explain how, please?

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Yes, I agree i would like you to prove that assertion?

          • Josey

            No homosexual is going to a muslim for counselling, might have an accidental slip off the top of a building

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Josey did not know that Jesus acknowledged that homosexuals are born gay???.Jesus himself in Matthew 19:12 admits humans are born gay. This
            position holds more weight if we use the language of Aramaic word
            myhemne. Aramaic was the language Christ was speaking and the word
            myhemne means trusted ones, but was translated to eunuch in Koime Greek.
            Eunuch did not mean a man who been castrated and had much wider meaning
            in Ancient World.
            Eunuch (/ˈjuːnək/; Ancient Greek: εὐνοῦχος) is a
            man who may have been castrated, typically early enough in his life for
            this change to have major hormonal consequences. In some ancient texts,
            “eunuch” may refer to a man who is not castrated but who is impotent,
            celibate, or otherwise not inclined to marry and procreate. So again it
            does not mean the inability to function and again these were the
            homosexuals of the biblical world. In Latin, the words eunuchus, spado,
            and castratus were used to denote eunuchs.[1]
            For instance, Lucian
            suggests two methods to determine whether someone is a eunuch: physical
            inspection of the body, or scrutiny of his ability to perform sexually
            with females (Lucian, Eunuchus 12). Note that means these people were
            homosexual as there was nothing wrong with their anatomy other than
            their attraction.
            This is extremely interesting because Jesus says in Matthew.

            Matthew 19:12New American Standard Bible (NASB)

            12 For
            there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and
            there
            are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs
            who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He
            who is able to accept this, let him accept it.” Note even Jesus
            concedes three types of eunuch. The ones who come from the womb
            homosexuals; those who had been castrated i.e captured soldiers and
            lastly those who chose celibacy.

            The earliest surviving etymology
            of the word is from late antiquity. The 5th century (AD) Etymologicon by
            Orion of Thebes offers two alternative origins for the word eunuch:
            first, to tēn eunēn ekhein, “guarding the bed”, a derivation inferred
            from eunuchs’ established role at the time as “bedchamber attendants” in
            the imperial palace, and second, to eu tou nou ekhein, “being good with
            respect to the mind”, which Orion explains based on their “being
            deprived of male-female intercourse (esterēmenou tou misgesthai), the
            things that the ancients used to call irrational (anoēta, literally:
            ‘mindless’)”.[

            In translations of the Bible into modern European
            languages, such as the Luther Bible or the King James Bible, the word
            eunuchus as found in the Latin Vulgate is usually rendered as officer,
            official or chamberlain, consistent with the idea that the original
            meaning of eunuch was bed-keeper (Orion’s first option). Modern
            religious scholars have been disinclined to assume that the courts of
            Israel and Judah included castrated men,[15] even though the original
            translation of the Bible into Greek used the word eunoukhos.

            Surveying
            the Roman legal provisions about eunuchs, we see that eunuchs could
            make wills (Code of Justinian 6.22.5, 12.5.4.2-3) and were required to
            perform guardianship duties (Code of Justinian 5.62.1). Whole eunuchs
            who were freemen, unlike mutilated eunuchs, were eligible for marriage
            and for adopting children (D 23.3.39.1, 28.2.6). In fact, anatomically
            whole eunuchs had all the rights and duties of ordinary men.

            But
            of course, eunuchs were not just ordinary men. Although they had no
            legally relevant bodily defects, they were nonetheless characterized in
            the popular mind by a certain physical incapacity. The popular view of
            eunuchs as defective explains their appearance in the law on defects
            in slaves, and it is also conveyed by the wording of other Roman laws,
            if not by their effects.

            In First Commentary, Section 196, Gaius
            stated that a eunuch did not attain puberty like a male. On the other
            hand, in providing (D 1.7.40.1) that a eunuch might obtain an exclusive
            heir by arrogation, Modestinus flatly affirmed: “he does not have a
            bodily defect as an impediment” [nec ei corporale vitium impedimento
            est].

            So, what defined the natural eunuch, if he was anatomically intact?

            For
            that, we must consider ancient notions of how reproduction occurred.
            Ancient doctors had no knowledge of sperm cells and egg cells. The cause
            of conception was thought to be a dynamic heat found in males, which
            can transform already existing, nongenerative fluids into a formed,
            generative state, much like egg whites gel and whiten in soft-boiled
            eggs. When implanted in the womb, this seed would be nourished and grow
            into a baby. According to a long-standing tradition dating at least
            from Aristotle, women’s fluids were non-generative because, it was
            thought, their bodies were too cold and moist to give form to semen
            (Generation of Animals 1.20, 4.1). This was why women could not produce
            children without males. To produce a child, semen first had to be
            poached, as it were, by the heat of the male’s orgasm.

            Eunuchs
            were considered like women, that is, cold; therefore their fluid would
            normally be watery and sterile too (Generation of Animals 2.7). Applying
            Aristotle’s reasoning that the concoction of semen by heat makes it
            generative, I surmise that eunuchs were deemed unable to procreate
            insofar as they did not feel the heat of passion during procreative
            acts with women. It is only if a eunuch can penetrate and reach
            passionate orgasm with a woman, not an easy thing for him to
            accomplish, that he can also implant concocted semen into her and
            procreate like a male — but then he would also cease to be considered a
            eunuch, having in this way proven his manhood

          • Green Loogy

            homosexuality is a sin. born with a propensity to be violent does not mean it is acceptable behaviour if you chose to quote from passages of the Bible first read the Bible instead of cherry picking and stating out of context or false statements.

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Okay Green Loogy. If I think that the moniker means what is does in Australia then ewww. Please show how I have quoted incorrectly. Please show the error of my translation of Koine Greek. I am quite happy to discuss the Aramaic verse if you like? 🙂 Shall we discuss real sins like obesity which are human choices and not homosexuality which is a natural sexual orientation and not a choice. .

          • Green Loogy

            go away, people like you are not convinced by truth or you woud have already seen your error. You want to drag me in to your circle of bs?

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            I did not open the dialogue. You interrupted a discussion I was having with someone else. I would have been happy to continue discussing the matter with you. I was hoping for a sensible refutation instead all you have given is pronouncements which is fine. If you can’t defend a statement don’t make them. You are hardly able to claim a position of authority here though.

          • Green Loogy

            why should requirements be so blatently anti Christian?

          • Jack_Carter_USA

            Well, naturally. After all, the Bible says quite clearly that before feeding the multitudes or healing the lepers or raising Lazarus from the dead, Jesus first told all the gay people to get lost.

          • gizmo23

            Not because of his views, because of his actions

          • Pererin

            His actions are or more accurately for this story, his inactions, are dictated by his faith.

          • hamfish

            All the gods are false, faith itself is idolatry.

          • Pererin

            We all have faith in something. What or who is your idol hamfish?
            Your faith that God doesn’t exist is obvious, who is the authority of your life? Is it yourself? Then you have made yourself a God. A false God.

          • Bob Johnson

            And should Christian Scientists be allowed to become qualified surgeons? They certainly have strongly held beliefs as well.

          • Pererin

            Of course I do, Ben Carson for example, he became one of the greatest surgeons. It’s for people like Ben Carson that the medical profession will lose out on if they carry on demanding that Christian beliefs are unacceptable. Thankfully, Carson didn’t see the descrimination some are facing today. A lot of great people will be lost.

          • Bob Johnson

            Ben Carson is a Seventh-day Adventist a different sect. He is also a scientist (with a small s). Google “Christian Scientist” (with an uppercase S).

          • Pererin

            Then all you do is expand the intolerance to Seventh-day Adventist too. The discrimination is increasing.

          • Gott Mit Uns!

            You mean out of all the students taking the course he was the only “Christian” student?

          • Pererin

            The only Christian student to hold strongly to biblical values it seems.

          • Green Loogy

            yes because it’s only homos who get special rights…you fool

          • Jack_Carter_USA

            Psst: it ain’t gay people who are demanding they be allowed to violate the rules of the degree program because Jesus.

        • BarkingDawg

          I’m rather certain that there are hundreds of thousands of Christian Councilors who have no problems with behaving ethically.

          • Pererin

            Ethically? Please explain. Who’s ethics should a Christian follow?

          • BarkingDawg

            if he can’t follow the code of the organization that he wished to joint, then I suggest he look elsewhere for a career.

            Counselors refrain from referring pro- spective and current clients based solely on the counselor’s personally held val- ues, attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors. Counselors respect the diversity of clients and seek training in areas in which they are at risk of imposing their values onto clients, especially when the counselor’s values are inconsistent with the client’s goals or are discriminatory in nature.

            sounds pretty straightforward and easy to understand to me.

          • Pererin

            So as I said, Christians are not allow to be counsellors, clear discrimination. They are told to leave their faith at the door. Shocking.

          • BarkingDawg

            but somehow hundreds of thousands of them manage just fine.

          • Pererin

            So if one of those hundreds of thousands decided one day to exercise his Christian faith? I’m predicting a big kick in the backside.

          • BarkingDawg

            Again. They seem to have no problem keeping their personal lives and their professional lives separate.

            Most intelligent people can do that.

          • Pererin

            What a terrible statement. Why should someone’s faith be segregated from their professional life? We live in a secular society don’t we? This man has to tolerate the colleges liberal views, why should other tolerate this man’s biblical views. He is not effecting anyone any more than they are hurting him. Sounds like more hypocritical double standard to me.

          • hamfish

            Well by my research, they certainly do not follow those of Christ.

          • Pererin

            So you agree that a Christian should follow Christ?
            Great. However, many Christians don’t follow Christ, it is a shame.
            They ignore the bits that they disagree with even though it’s there in the bible. Hamfish, seeing as it is concerning you so much, let’s pray these people put God’s word before their own word making False God’s of themselves.

        • Patrick Van Der Ven

          Andrew Cash could have gone to a right wing fundamentalist university and he would have got his MA no issues.

          • Pererin

            Ah, but what about the homosexuals who insist on using Christian bakery for their ‘weddings’. Do you suggest they find non-Christian bakers instead. Not according to recent court rulings it doesn’t.

          • Gott Mit Uns!

            If this Christian worldview is so central in his life, why is he even pursuing a degree at a state university? There are plenty of pastoral counseling programs that would welcome him and his views with open arms.

            How many “Christian” bakeries advertise as “Christian” bakeries?

          • Green Loogy

            why should he be discriminated against because he is a christian? Why do you suggest he go to another school? Yeah you are fair and tollerant as long as it goes your way

          • Pererin

            I see, so you suggest segregation. How tolerant of you!

        • hamfish

          Well, it is about time the world was free of this illness called religion.

          • Pererin

            Absolutely. Some atheists are extremely religious about their beliefs. They are a real pain sometimes. If we could all have that amazing relationship with Jesus our Lord, religion would be gone in an instant.

      • Green Loogy

        yes he should only get special rights if he is muslim, gay, gender confused, you know…Anything anti God is ok for special rights….GTFO!

  • Jack_Carter_USA

    So let me get this, um, straight. Andrew Cash openly says gay couples are icky and wants them to take their problems somewhere else. In doing so, he violated the rules of the degree program, which clearly say students can’t discriminate against Those People who need help. Yet he says he’s above the law and doesn’t have to follow the same rules as everyone else because Jesus. Sounds legit.

    • Ronald Carter

      Amazing, isn’t it? But to read some of the comments here, it’s the poor Christians being picked on again.

      • The Last Trump

        Hey, hey! How about that!
        You’re catching on!

        • Ronald Carter

          You remind of a cartoon I once saw, a Christian man beating a homosexual over the head calling him deviant and pervert and sicko, and the man asked him to stop doing it, and he responded with, “Why…you’re discriminating against my religion!”

          • Jack_Carter_USA

            Pretty much. Decades ago, other people tried hiding behind their religion to deny goods and services to black people. Didn’t work for them either.

          • The Last Trump

            Liberal TV, huh?
            I never watch the stuff.

          • Josey

            so true…lol

      • Jack_Carter_USA

        You really have to wonder about people who think being told their religion doesn’t make them above the law is the same as persecution.

      • Cady555

        Making christians obey the same rules as everyone else is Percy-Kushun!

        Didn’t ya know?

  • BarkingDawg

    Students are kicked out of these programs all the time for ethical violations.

    It apparatus that Mr. Cash never stopped to consider it his actions were in compliance with the ethical code he was obliged to follow in his chosen profession.

    When the conflict was pointed out to him, he doubled down on the stupidity.

    I predict that his suit will go no where.

  • Greg Trujillo

    He would serve better as a Christian counselor. There are times when your convictions won’t allow you to do the job you’re in. He should have never entered this ‘job’.

    • BarkingDawg

      He may have a hard time getting a state license with out that degree or the certification from the American Counseling Association.

      • Bob Johnson

        Which means he has to follow best practices.

  • Gena B

    He should transfer to a Christian University. Although some of those are swaying too.

    • BarkingDawg

      Good luck finding a “Christian University” with an accredited program.

      If he wants to get a state license as a professional counsellor, he’s going to have to get a degree from an accredited school.

      Otherwise, the best he can do is being a “lifestyle coach” at the local YMCA.

  • Reason2012

    In terms of our laws here. lawsuits are the only language they will understand.

    To the left, homosexuality is genetic (but transgenderism is based on feelings, not genetics – the irony), but to Christians homosexuality is not genetic and hence the counseling approach is quite different than the left would demand: Christian counselors can offer hope – liberal counselors that they are creating tell them there IS no hope.

    Yet adults continue, on their own, to permanently overcome homosexuality.

    They might as well start demanding counselors to counsel people in a relationship with a married person and fire Christians for refusing to do so and it would be no different.

    • BarkingDawg

      shorter version: “Wah!”

  • Paul R

    Remnants of the ex-hippie professors still have a stranglehold on the education system, especially the Universities. . Gonna have to wait a little while longer until they’re flushed out. Secular media, government and education. Culturally that’s a wicked brew.

  • Patrick Van Der Ven

    He should have been expelled because of the basic rule you leave your biases at home when you go to work or participate in a humanist secularist sphere of study. By stating his biases against homosexuals Mr Cash has shown himself unfit to be a counsellor as he is imposing his moral and religious beliefs to the detriment of others. Why should he be given special status?

    • Josey

      As I pointed out in above post, counsellors refer others to other counsellors all the time when there is some kind of problem, this isn’t unusual at all except the LGBT community seem to think they have to root out anyone who disagrees with them. And in this case they are taking this guys hard work to become a counsellor to help those he can and wanting all that good hard work thrown into a toilet. These LGBT advocate bullies will be the ones cast aside soon when Jesus appears unless they by a miracle of God find out who He truly is. Some are finding out now as God reveals Himself to those who will hear the truth but the majority of them will not listen for their lust for what is unnatural has taken over.

      • Patrick Van Der Ven

        Well! These is what I don’t get. Evangelicals who goes to a school , are fully aware of the school’s curriculum and decide they are going to alter it. Who are the bullies? Everybody has to bow to your version of Christianity . Well guess what the days are gone when you could dictate, persecute and humiliate. Let him go to another college, I am sure he will be at home at Liberty University. Oh PS in 8 years an extra 18 million Americans became unaffiliated with any religion, That figure rose from 39,000,000 in 2009 to 57,000,000 to 2016. LOL it seems the figures contradict what you are saying and the majority of Americans are no longer going to let right wing fanatics discriminate against the LGBTIQ community.

  • Julie Iwanicki

    The LGBT Groups specifically target Christians due to the Biblical viewpoint on homosexuality (OR SHOULD I SAY THAT GOD STRUCTLY FORBIDS HOMOSEXUALITY), and they are audacious enough to scream out for their rights and freedom to be given at the expense of removing others freedom, righs and persecuting them at the same time destroying small family businesses/livelihoods/maybe the loss of homes due to no longer having an income to pay the Mortgage/Rent, putting the whole family unit under tremendous strain which will affect the children and getting students kicked off their course at Uni due to their Christian views…The Big Elephant in the room that many are not seeing…. MAJOR DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ONE GROUP IN ORDER TO APPEASE A MINORITY GROUP! WHERE IS THE FREEDOM AND JUSTICE IN THAT??
    Not homophobic as Jesus loves all and commands us to do the same, but how can we as Christians obey God and His Word without being viciously attacked by members of the LGBT GROUPS? Two sets of rules here! In a nutshell our freedom is being robbed daily and there seems to be no law that protects our rights! Stand up and fight as this is a Spiritual Battle against Christians to remove our religious rights and freedom and to shut us up so we have no voice! Strategy of the enemy to stop us from proclaiming the Word of God! BTW, not targeting Muslims here, but homosexuality is forbidden under Islamic law, yet not heard of any cases where law suits have been filed against them, all hell would break loose (for the want of a better expression) if anyone attempted to go against them!
    In the last days, good will be called evil and evil will be called good!

    • Ronald Carter

      No one is trying to take your religious freedom away. The problems happen when you try to use the rules of your faith to oppress and hurt others who have the right to NOT believe as you do.

      • Julie Iwanicki

        No Christian is trying to hurt others or oppress them, Christians are fully aware that Jesus came to set the captives free, so we wouldn’t oppress anyone ( LGBT Groups have wrongly interpreted to be like that when it is certainly not the case). Christians should have the right to religious freedom and be able to not have to conform to doing something that goes against their faith, if not, then we are being enforced and discriminated against (where do you draw the line?) . If a Christian refuses to accommodate (within their family business) the requests of LGBT person on religious grounds, then the question here is not about Christian wanting to hurt, offend or discriminate, it’s about their religious teaching which forbids them to engage with certain aspects due to the laws of God. Please understand that the LGBT group have made it ‘all about them’ and about them being discriminated against, when it is in fact actually ‘all about Christians obeying God’ and having their ‘freedom’ in which to obey God and Scripture! You must look to the motive of a persons heart, as a Christians, we are only trying our hardest to obey God and Scripture, our motives have nothing to do with hurting, offending or discrimination against LGBT Groups, the issue here is that the LGBT Groups are actually offended and hurt by God and Jesus due to Him strictly forbidding LGBT sexual practices. The LGBT Groups ACTUALLY need to take up their GRIPE with God and take God/Jesus to court and file their lawsuits against Heaven! Ware only Children of God obeying our Heavenly Father, therefore your hurt, offence and even feelings of being discriminated against is an issue you need to take up with the ‘Boss’, Creator of the Universe… Namely Jesus!

        • gizmo23

          Your arguments are the same ones used to deny black people rights

        • Jolanda Tiellemans

          Please understand that the LGBT group have made it ‘all about them’ and about them being discriminated against,

          Yes Christians are discriminating against them. How about all those bills they want to pass or are passed? They are all against LGBT people. and it is all happening since there is marriage equality for homosexuals in your country. We have here in the Netherlands SSM for 15 years now and I never heard of any bill being passed here against LGBT people. You are surprised LGBT people fight back. I’m not. Live and let live, you should try it sometimes, it is liberating. Why don’t you leave the judging to your God?

          our motives have nothing to do with hurting, offending or discrimination against LGBT Groups

          and still, many of you do exactly that.

          • Cady555

            Expecting everyone to follow the same rules is not making it “all about them.” Pretty much the opposite.

            Let’s say a conservative christian needed counseling and went to a licensed therapist covered by their insurance who had openings. Sometimes there’s not much choice. They did not realize the therapist was an atheist with several gay family members. The therapist should treat them professionally and the client should have no clue whatsoever about the therapist’s personal beliefs.

            Same rules for everybody. A person who faints at the sight of blood is not qualified to be a surgeon. A person who cannot maintain boundaries between their beliefs and the client is not qualified to be a therapist.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            “all about them.”

            Uhm that is not what I’m saying but the one I replied to. It just gets me so angry when they state that it’s all about LGBT people and that the Christians are not hurting, offending or discriminate against them. And that is exactly what they are doing.

          • Cady555

            My bad. I wrapped up reactions to several posts under yours. You were clear. I wasn’t paying attention.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            No problem!

      • Josey

        Counsellors refer others to other counsellors all the time when there is no fit or the counsellor feels that he or she would be the best option for the counsellee, of course this is about taking a person’s religions freedom away and forcing them to counsel another against their own beliefs which wouldn’t be helpful to the person who needs the counselling in the first place since the counsellee would be at odds with the counsellor’s advice and would sue them regardless when the counsellor didn’t tickle their ears by telling them what they want to hear.

        • gizmo23

          He is not a counselor, he is a student at a state university and as such needs to follow their requirements. He could go to a private school.
          Once he gets his degree he can do what he wants,until then follow the rules or drop out

  • Peter Leh

    well.. we’ve had many chrisitans say nonchrisitans should be expelled from theological seminaries….

    so fair is fair… no?

  • Gal5:22-23

    The internship location shouldn’t have been approved in the first place.

  • NCOriolesFan

    My goodness, this is a university for adults, right. Seems the way they are treating Cash is juvenile at best. Write a paper on a how to behave correctly. Good grief.

    • Cady555

      Students write6 papers. How is that unreasonable?

  • icebiker

    I am not sure why Christians would go to a secular university for a counseling degree.(except that a private university costs more). Regardless the internship was deemed acceptable in the beginning and would employ qualified counselors. The school should recognize that counseling a gay couple would be difficult for someone with religious beliefs against it.

  • Gott Mit Uns!

    Next we’ll have medical students who have their own version of the Hippocratic Oath.

  • peanut butter

    I always wanted to be a counselor when I was a teenager, and I could be a good one because of all the trials I’ve been through while having OCD, PTSD, Bipolar and other disorders. But if I WAS a counselor, I could not leave my religious beliefs at the door when I came into the workplace. If not for God and the Atoning Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, I would have been in a mental institution a long time ago, in my honest opinion.

  • Georgie Franklin

    Boo Hoo. Find another job since you can’t perform this one. Oh you want “special rights”? Sorry you no longer are in charge.