Lesbian United Methodist Minister Placed on Leave Following Complaint

Meyer-compressedEDGERTON, Kansas — A lesbian United Methodist minister in Kansas has been placed on involuntary leave following a complaint over a January sermon in which she came out about her same-sex attractions despite the denomination’s prohibitions against homosexual ministers.

On Jan. 3, Cynthia Meyer announced to Edgerton United Methodist Church, where she had served since July, that she was a lesbian.

“I have been an ordained United Methodist pastor for 25 years. At last, I am choosing to serve in that role with full authenticity, as my genuine self, a woman who loves and shares my life with another woman,” she declared to those gathered.

A complaint was soon filed against Meyer for violating the United Methodist Book of Discipline, which prohibits those living in the sin of homosexual behavior from serving as leaders.

“While persons set apart by the Church for ordained ministry are subject to all the frailties of the human condition and the pressures of society, they are required to maintain the highest standards of holy living in the world,” it reads.

“The practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching,” the Book continues. “Therefore self-avowed practicing homosexuals are not to be certified as candidates, ordained as ministers, or appointed to serve in The United Methodist Church.”

Meyer was brought before Great Plains Area Bishop Scott Jones for meetings about the matter, and when a resolution was unable to be reached in April, it seemed that she was headed for a church trial that could result in defrocking.

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On Aug.. 1, following continued meetings, including with the JustPeace Center for Mediation and Conflict Transformation, it was agreed for Meyer to take leave until the next General Conference in 2020. The Conference is expected to further discuss the issue of homosexuality at that time.

“The agreement we reached upholds the Book of Discipline and yet recognizes that the larger denomination is in a time of discernment about a way forward,” Jones told United Methodist News Service. “So this agreement recognizes that accountability was necessary and yet holds open possibilities for whatever the general church is going to decide.”

Meyer released a statement about the resolution on Wednesday, asserting that Church policy is discriminatory and that embracing those practicing homosexuality is the “way of Jesus.”

“The disconnect between my gay identity and my church’s policies has distressed me for many years,” she said. “I’ve long recognized and now assert that it’s past time for the denomination to change. It’s my time to share my story as a part of that change.”

“When I spoke my truth in January, my hopes were many, including that of joining with other bold spirits in advocating for the UMC to better follow the way of Jesus, the ways of justice, love and full inclusion, particularly for those often marginalized, judged, and harmed,” Meyer asserted. “I acted, then and now, out of love for and commitment to the United Methodist Church.”

She said that she would like United Methodist leadership to remove its prohibition on homosexual clergy from its Book of Discipline.

“I hope that the UMC, through a fully representative, inclusive commission, then a focused General Conference, will intentionally, prayerfully remove all discriminatory language and practice from its Book of Discipline,” Meyer stated.

However, as previously reported, not all United Methodist clergy and ministry leaders support homosexual behavior. In an article entitled “Why Many Methodists Still Oppose Same-Sex Marriage,” John Lemperis, the Director of the UM Action program of the Institute on Religion and Democracy, said that the Bible is crystal clear on the matter.

“Even liberal Biblical scholars now agree that the Old and New Testaments are very clear in their moral disapproval of homosexual practice,” he wrote. “More fundamentally, Scripture paints a beautiful picture of marriage as a holy covenant of intensely intimate, self-giving community between man and woman, uniting the two most basic, equal categories of humanity.”

“We submit to Jesus as Lord,” Lemperis stated. “If He is truly Lord, then no area of our lives can be off-limits to Him. Jesus spoke strongly about the centrality of self-denial in following Him, which often means dramatic personal sacrifices, including not acting on powerful desires for things outside of God’s best for us. … Jesus and new life in Him are more than worth it.”


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  • Amos Moses

    The error ………. was making her a minister to begin with ………….

    • sangrita

      Why?

      • TheBBP

        gotquestions org/women-pastors

        • sangrita

          LOL

          • TheBBP

            So, you are just trolling then. Enjoy your day, friend.

          • sangrita

            No, I am not trolling. I just find your choice of website as a source of something to be taken seriously a little hard to swallow.

          • Jon Peterman

            because it says something contrary to what you believe?

            the truth is seen as hate to those living a lie

          • sangrita

            gotquestions dot org is a joke. They don’t even consider Catholics to be Christians.

          • Jon Peterman

            because they’re not.

            do a little bible study, its not hard to compare catholic doctrine with scripture and find out which one is wrong

          • sangrita

            I see, so you failed history 101?
            Catholics were among the earliest Christians. What you’re saying is crazy. It’s like a Chevy telling a Ford that it isn’t a real car. But your 30 year old do it yourself denomination is the real deal, eh?

      • Amos Moses

        Scripture ………

        • sangrita

          There are many women pastors.

          • Amos Moses

            Against Scripture ……….. Sorry ……….. SCRIPTURES ………. numerous scriptures ……..

          • sangrita

            There are MANY women pastors.

          • Amos Moses

            So What ………… they are not christian pastors as scripture does not recognize them …… they can be pastors of “whatever” ……….. but Christ has the rules for who is a pastor in His church ……….. and it does not include women …… women have many others roles in the church to fulfill ……….. just not minister, pastor, bishop or any leadership role over men …. not my rule ……. Christs church ….. His rule ….. He owns His church …. not us …..

          • Sue Zinck

            Jesus included women, men who wrote the scripture left them out. His rule: inclusiveness. Of everyone.

          • Amos Moses

            Jesus included women in the church ………. but NOT over men ……. and sorry …. christianity is EXCLUSIVE ….. not everyone will be saved …. nor is everyone capable of leading the body of believers ….. i certainly am not ….. does not mean there is no place for me or for women ….. but as leaders of the body of Christ ………. NO ………

            “men who wrote the scripture left them out.”

            Baloney ……….. no evidence ………. and if you hold that view …. then you are saying the Holy Spirit is not the author of scripture ………. and that is outside orthodoxy and outside the body of Christ …….. and unscriptural ………….

          • Sue Zinck

            You’re right. Christianity is exclusive but Jesus was inclusive. I follow His example but don’t consider myself a Christian any more. His message got hijacked along the way. A bunch of guys wrote the Bible and got a lot of things wrong in their “translation.” Peace be with you.

          • Jon Peterman

            prove your points

            every word is inspired of God, basically God wrote the Bible and maintains its truth regardless what you believe to the contrary

            will God INCLUDE your sin into His house?

            Jesus is NOT inclusive, never has been never will be, He accepts you where you are NOT as you are

            repent and be saved, repentance is change, if you have not changed then you have not repented

          • Amos Moses

            No ……….. Christ is not inclusive of SIN and He is not inclusive of those who violate the rules He set up for HIS church …. and it is HIS church …. Not ours …………

            ” I follow His example but don’t consider myself a Christian any more. His message got hijacked along the way. A bunch of guys wrote the Bible and got a lot of things wrong in their “translation.””

            So you call Christ a liar …. but then say you follow Him ……… and that only makes you a liar …..

        • IzTheBiz

          I think the church has more to worry about than that at present! It’s disintegrating with the pollution of homosexuality and gross materialism!

          • Amos Moses

            “that” ……… has led to this ………. “It’s disintegrating with the pollution of homosexuality and gross materialism!” …………..

          • IzTheBiz

            an incredibly silly statement! How does allowing a woman preach/teach bring about male and female homosexuality?? Chapter and verse please!

          • Amos Moses

            It is a violation of the rules Christ has set for His church ……… if you ignore the His rule ….. it leads to not following any rule we choose …….. and it is His church …. not ours …… His …

            1 Timothy
            2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
            2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
            2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
            2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
            2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

          • IzTheBiz

            It sounds like you developed your exegetical skills from the back of a cereal packet! What you are doing is Isogesis, not exegesis! Please read the bible in context and not interpret it to suit your little theories.

          • Amos Moses

            well that actually is in context but if you would like it further exegeted …. and you will note the qualifications for bishop and deacons have a WIFE …… and in scripture ONLY A MAN has a wife ………

            2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
            2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
            2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
            2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
            2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
            2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
            2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
            2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
            3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
            3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
            3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
            3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
            3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
            3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
            3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
            3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
            3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
            3:10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
            3:11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
            3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
            3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
            3:14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
            3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
            3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

          • IzTheBiz

            That’s not exegesis, that’s cut and paste!!! for crying our loud, do you even know what the word means? what does that all have to do with homosexuality??? Where is the passage that says it leads to homosexuality?

          • Amos Moses

            Exegesis is reading it in context ………… and no i typed that all out for you so you could actually read it ….. because cut and paste is a sin, right ……. what a stupid remark …. has to do with a woman being a pastor ……… and there are not supposed to be any …… by scripture ….

    • Taylor

      No…the error was her thinking that Edgerton, KS would be a place open and accepting enough not to judge her for her sexuality, instead of her good works. I grew up in the area, is a total backwater.

      • Amos Moses

        Sure ………. she has no responsibility …….. got it …….. but not so “backwater” to have her as a minister in the first place ……… does your foot hurt when you shoot it like that…….. post modern claptrap …… and bigotry on your part ……

        • Taylor

          My feet feel just fine…thanks for asking.

          Her responsibility is to live her life openly and honestly. After all your ALL KNOWING GOD knew she was going to be a LESBIAN and a MINISTER before He ever created her, and went ahead and created her anyway, when he could have not allowed for her creation, and no one would have known the difference.

          So, maybe He doesn’t have a problem with who she is or who she loves. Unlike you! 🙂

          • Amos Moses

            “Her responsibility is to live her life openly and honestly.”

            Then she should give up ministry, that she was not qualified for in the first place, because “Her responsibility is to live her life openly and honestly.” is in direct contradiction to being a minister ………………

          • Taylor

            LOL..right because ministers, should’t live their lives openly and honestly, as an example to their congregations.

            She must have been qualified, because she was ordained, by the Methodist Church! 🙂

            The Methodist Church will reinstate her…it’s just a matter of time. And then you can gnash your teeth about that!

          • Amos Moses

            No ……… because they are supposed to live their lives for Christ and the flock they are entrusted with ……….. and she lied about herself and what she was doing ……….. and is NOT qualified ……….

          • Taylor

            According to YOU she is not qualified. According to the denomination that ordained her, she was.

            She actually didn’t lie about herself. She told her congregation that she was gay! Where’s the lie?

          • Amos Moses

            “According to YOU she is not qualified.”

            According to scripture …………

          • Taylor

            Then your problem is with the Methodist Church. Because it is that denomination who ordained her. According to “scripture” women should never be in the pulpit! So, maybe you should tell the Methodist they are going against “scripture” whenever they ordain a woman.

            Good Luck!! 🙂

          • Amos Moses

            No …… the Methodist “church” has a problem with scripture and Christ and His leadership of HIS church ………..

          • Taylor

            So…when can we expect you to go before the hierarchy of the Methodist Church and tell them that they are doing it wrong?

          • Amos Moses

            They have already been told by numerous authorities …….. including scripture ……. and they ignore it ……… if they ignore Christs teaching on the matter ……… then they are no longer His followers ….. as they are not following ………..

          • Taylor

            Where does Christ specifically say women cannot be ministers??

          • Amos Moses

            Titus 1, 1 Timothy 3, and

            1 Timothy 2
            2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
            2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
            2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
            2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
            2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

          • Taylor

            Sorry, but both Timothy and Titus, were written by Paul, who never actually met Christ. So, if you’d like to try again. Be my guest.

            Unless of course you want to declare yourself a “Paulist” instead of a “Christian”

          • Amos Moses

            United Methodist “Church” Apologizes After Statement Of Faith Found On Its Website

          • Taylor

            Link??

          • Amos Moses

            Satire …………..

      • bfport

        She could live in New York City or San Francisco, and the Methodist Church ethics standards for her as a minister wouldn’t be any different. The Bible used in New York and San Francisco would also still have the same verses stating that living a homosexual lifestyle is a sin in the eyes of God. Yes, we ALL sin, but as someone else said so eloquently, we don’t see most of us celebrating and flaunting our sins–for instance, we’ve never heard of a “Liar’s Parade” or a “Fornicator’s Parade.”

        EVERY person in the world could support homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle, but that still would not change the FACT that God calls it sin, therefore it IS sin.

        • Taylor

          You should attend Spring Break or Mardi Gras…it’s the equivalent of a Liars Parade or Fornicators Parade.

          An All Knowing God calls homosexuality a sin…yet still continues to allow for the creation of people who will be homosexuals, when he doesn’t have to allow for their creation at all.

          That makes about as much sense as saying you hate liver and onions, and then you prepare liver and onions for dinner…knowing that you will throw it in the garbage as soon as you’ve finished preparing it. When you could have prepared something that you like!

          • Tristan Nagelkirk

            An all knowing God knows that His own creation will betray Him, and He still creates it anyways. He’s equally aware of the people who will accept and deny Him when He doesn’t have to allow for the existence of those that would deny Him at all.

            Your argument is dangerous at the very foundation. Homosexuality is detailed as sin, same as murder, coveting, adultery, and a whole slew of other things. To say “oh, God wouldn’t make a person that way” is a falsehood that deeply misunderstands the nature of our sin.

          • Taylor

            Nope, my argument isn’t dangerous, it’s logical.

            An all knowing god, knows who is going to be gay, or a murder, or a thief, or an adulterer, etc. before he ever creates that person.

            It’s illogical to create things that you know you’re going to hate when you don’t have to create them at all. It’s counter productive and pointless for a supposed loving god to create people that He knows will end up being punished for all eternity when He doesn’t have to create them all.

            There is nothing loving about a god who would do this.

            That’s why I don’t believe that your god exists. 🙂

          • Sharon_at_home

            God also gave us free will.

      • cadcoke5

        Your mistake is in categorizing her leadership as a good work. Since scripture describes homosexuality as an abomination, she has been preaching a rejection of God’s word. Even worse, there are likely to be many children in her congregation. Jesus makes a special point to express judgement against those who mislead the little ones.

        Churches are also commanded to judge sin in its membership. I Cor 5:13

        The UMC is right to remove this woman from being a pastor. Their error is in not finishing the process to fully defrock her. They seem to be wanting to please both God and man, and can’t make up their mind.

        • Taylor

          The scripture also describes, divorce for any reason other than adultery and remarriage as being a no-no, and that anyone who enters into such a marriage is in an adulterous relationship. Not only do churches look the other way at these marriages, they are actually performed in their sanctuaries, by their clergy.

          So, don’t tell me what the scripture says…unless you and the all other churches and church members are prepared to follow it to the letter.

          I won’t hold my breath.

          Enjoy your cherry picking! 🙂

          • cadcoke5

            I hold that remarriage after divorce for reasons other than adultery, is itself adultery. I am not cherry picking.

            Looking over your posts, I think your arguments are not really over what is said in scripture. Rather, you have simply rejected God, and of course, that there is such a thing as God’s word. So, I am puzzled why you offer any other argument other than to say, “there is no God”. Why even attempt to defend a minister who claims to be working for God?

          • Taylor

            You may hold that opinion…but what are you doing about it? Are you going from church to church excoriating the the congregations and ministers for allowing for these marriages to take place in their sanctuaries, or for actually participating in the ceremonies themselves, by being the officiant? I bet not.

            LOL..you don’t get to dismiss, the fact that Jesus makes very clear his feeling on divorce for reasons other than adultery, and remarriage, just because I don’t happen to believe your god exists.

            If you’re going to point to the scripture to make your argument for why this minister should not be allowed to remain in her position, then I get to use that same reference book, to point out the hypocrisy of churches and ministers participating in these marriages.

            I’m not so much defending the minister, as I am, pointing out they hypocrisy of the people condemning her. Why is it worse that she is a homosexual, than it is, for the countless ministers who have officiated the marriages who have divorced for reasons other than adultery, and remarried??

            Double standard, much?

          • cadcoke5

            Actually, I have pretty much treated both issues the same. Though, articles are not coming up with ministers saying “My church forbids me to perform ceremonies to wed improperly divorced people, but I am going to do it anyway.” So, there is not as much opportunity to comment on the subject.

            But, even if the entire church were 100% consistent in their treatment of the two subjects, it would not matter to you, because you reject God. You are perhaps citing inconsistent interpretation of scripture to be an evidence against the existence of God. But, I don’t think the behavior of people has any bearing on his existence.

            In an earlier posting, you seem to be of the opinion that if any of God’s creations sins, that is proof that God does not exist. Perhaps a good argument against that is to propose the idea of a mother who only wanted children who did precisely what the mother dictate and wanted them to be incapable of not loving her. In that situation, can she truly ever claim that her children loved her? Our God did not create robots to follow his will. Rather he designed us to have a relationship with him. He also gave us the freedom to reject that relationship if we wish.

          • Taylor

            Attempt to deflect from the hypocrisy of churches and ministers performing and celebrating those adulterous marriages, is not going to make that hypocrisy go away. It’s still cherry picking!

            I don’t believe in your god, because the dogma that surrounds your god makes it illogical for me to do so.

            I can not logically believe in a being that supposedly hates sin, would create a being that HE KNOWS will be responsible for bringing sin into the world, when he didn’t have to create that being at all. I can’t logically believe in a god who supposedly hates homosexuality, knowingly allows for the creation of people that HE KNOWS will be homosexual, when he doesn’t have to allow for their creation at all.

            Free Will and Omniscience create a circular argument. I can not have Free Will, if your all knowing god knew everything I was going to do BEFORE I even existed, and that foreknowledge was perfect. If I actually had Free Will, I should be able to do something that would surprise your god, but instead, I have to do exactly what your god knew I would do, because, if I do something he didn’t know I would do, then he is not omniscient.

            Free Will is simply an illusion. We are being controlled by the invisible strings of your god’s omniscience.

            There are no surprises for an all knowing god. Too bad that the people that came up with the dogma surrounding your god, didn’t think it all the way through, If only they hadn’t made him omniscient. But, then…the would have meant, he wasn’t all powerful either! 🙂

  • Michael D Coxie

    the church did the ABOLUTE and RIGHT thing I SUPPORT the United Methodist Church on this I can get it for you word for word on this no problem. this woman has 2 choices either repent and turn away from the homosexual lifestyle. ( NO this is NOT meant to be an attack on that lifestyle choice.) 2 be defrocked. period. I would hope that she chooses to repent and make things right and accept the love of CHRIST come back into the fellowship of fellowship of fellowship of believers.

    • cadcoke5

      We were apparently typing at the same time. But, my statement is that the church is NOT doing what they should do. They started the process of defrocking, but then decided to put it on hold. Why?

      It would seem that the leadership is pro-homosexuality. They are hoping the General Assembly in 2020 will successfully have lost enough of the bible-believers in its membership, that they will vote to abandon God’s word.

      • Michael D Coxie

        what you are beginning to see is what was prophesied “falling away” of the church. she is NOT fit for leadership within the church because she has NOT repented of her sinful nature. Paul himself said that when you see things like this in the church from such TURN AWAY!!! in other words run from that particular church because that is NOT what GOD intended for GOD to have in HIS church. the UMC recently voted on whether or not at least to my understanding as to whether or not to have lesbians or homosexuals in positions of leadership in the UMC and the vote was absolutely NO for the time being THANK GOD!!!!! I’m located down south I don’t know if it’s different where you are Cadcoke5. I think what they ( homosexuals) is try to ruin every thing in general. what you have to remember is that when their “movement started out they ( pardon the pun ) wanted “tolerance.” what they REALLY want is dominance over EVERY aspect of life AND IF you DONT agree with them then you by their standards are ignorant dumb and stupid. they want to teach kids at an early age things which violate the very scripture of GOD from WITHIN the church itself so that, they can try to subvert and destroy the word of GOD. THAT is what they want to do.

    • sangrita

      So you think she should basically be forced to live a loveless and sexless life.

      • TheBBP

        Not at all, she is free to do as she pleases. She is just unfit to lead a Congregation for a number of reasons.

        • sangrita

          I disagree. Maybe she’s celibate.

          • TheBBP

            Celibacy does not negate the fact that she is actively living with her gay partner/wife. She is unfit to lead a Congregation.

          • sangrita

            Why?

          • Michael D Coxie

            because GOD says she’s unfit and she WILL be made to step down

          • Ken Faivor

            Hopefully, If she isn’t…..Well then you know what the Word says…..A little leaven, leavens the whole lump.

      • Michael D Coxie

        no one is forcing them to do anything. nor is she nor is she going to lead ANY congregation.

  • Scott Davenport

    What is wrong with these people living in such a disgusting and despicable lifestyle?? Shall we also ordain ministers that are practicing Murderers??? Maybe practicing Liars??? Thieves??? Why do they think this Sin is fully acceptable to Jesus??? The only conclusion I can come to is they have mental issues and society makes more money off of supporting the deviation than the cure…..

    • sangrita

      She isn’t practicing a disgusting and despicable lifestyle. She’s lesbian, which means she can only be attracted to people of the same sex. And she can’t be anything else. Tell me please what this has to do with murder and lying and thievery.

      • susan sennett

        It is Sin just like murder, adultery, lying, stealing…Read the bible it explains it clearly if you want to hear it.

        • sangrita

          No thanks. I’ll stick with proven mental health experts and psychologists on this subject.

          • Ken Faivor

            Like they know anything spiritual.

          • sangrita

            They don’t need to. They know what’s factual.

          • MandaLynne

            Psalm 146:3 “Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation.”

            Psalm 118:8 “It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man.”

          • LadyInChrist♥BlessedBeTheLord

            Amen!

      • TheBBP

        She shouldn’t be up there for the same reasons that any Pastor should not be in the pulpit while drunk, high and preaching from the Satanic Bible. It goes against the Word of God.

        • sangrita

          She is a lesbian. That means she’s attracted to the same sex, and there is NOTHING she can do about it.
          She can choose to take a partner or she can choose to remain celibate, but she’s a lesbian no matter what.
          Based on that, there’s not a single reason she shouldn’t be in the pulpit. Nothing about what she is exempts her from preaching.

          • TheBBP

            The fact that she is a Lesbian does not mean that she is clear to act on it. I am a sinner and that does not clear me to sin as I wish. The fact that she is refusing to make any attempt to turn from her sin shows that she has an unrepentant heart for her sin.

            We are born sinners, that does not mean that it is OK to sin.

          • sangrita

            What do you mean “act on it”? Are you saying that she must suppress her ability to love another human being in a physical way?
            We are sexual beings. I agree that promiscuity isn’t a good idea for many reasons but I don’t agree with just cutting off sexual contact completely. Would YOU want to live your life that way? Does it seem a reasonable request, or just cruel?

          • BobM1

            You are either a troll, or someone who will never conform to the Christian faith.

          • sangrita

            Not your version of it, at least.

          • Nikki

            People in todays time are twisting everything to conform to what they think is right despite what it says in the bible what is right. So because mental health experts and psychologist says its one way, then it must be. That’s like saying back in the day because Doctors said Leeches draining blood from us was good and would heal us…. that they were right. Its says plainly in the bible that homosexuality is a sin… But people are so butt hurt over every little thing and because we think we are owed everything in life that our way of thinking is right. No its not… Affairs are not right morally but they still happen… so does murder, theft, ect. We know they are not right but some people get that little nitch in their head to do it and by God they will. You can argue your point of view until you are blue in the face. But we know what is right. Lets love each other but at the same time follow the rules. Which this pastor is not.

          • sangrita

            Doctors learned from the process of using leeches. Medicine is a process of distillation and hypotheses and testing until they arrive at the best answer. Kinsey’s studies have been found to be accurate as people keep arriving at the same findings, so this process is shown to work and to be reliable.
            So when an ancient holy text makes a wild generalization with nothing to back it up except “God says so” then you’ll forgive me if I go with what is tried and tested.

          • bfport

            So, you would rather live your life based on the authority of Kinsey’s Word than the authority of God’s Word. Does Kinsey tell you anything about how you will spend eternity? Does Kinsey tell you anything about what is morally right and wrong?

            God’s Word IS “what is tried and tested.”!! However, I have a feeling you haven’t given it much of a chance.

          • sangrita

            No, I would not use Kinsey’s word to live my life, but I WOULD use it as the voice of authority on a matter concerning human sexuality. Just like I wouldn’t look up the capital of Iceland in the Joy of Cooking.
            If you’re using the Bible for things other than spirituality, I would suggest you are using the wrong tool for the wrong job.

          • bfport

            Apparently you haven’t read all the information God included in the Bible regarding sexual relations, including homosexuality.

          • sangrita

            Or maybe I don’t interpret what it says the same way you do. Or maybe I’m an agnostic. Or both.

          • bfport

            Do you mean THIS Kinsey?

            “Kinsey’s research went beyond theory and interview TO INCLUDE OBSERVATION OF AND PARTICIPATION IN SEXUAL ACTIVITY, SOMETIMES INVOLVING CO-WORKERS. Kinsey justified this sexual experimentation as being necessary to gain the confidence of his research subjects. He encouraged his staff to do likewise, and to engage in a wide range of sexual activity, to the extent that they felt comfortable; he argued that this would help his interviewers understand the participants’ responses.[24][25] Kinsey FILMED SEXUAL ACTS WHICH INCLUDED CO-WORKERS IN THE ATTIC OF HIS HOME as part of his research;[26] … James H. Jones, author of Alfred C. Kinsey: A Public/Private Life, and British psychiatrist Theodore Dalrymple, among others, have speculated that Kinsey WAS DRIVEN BY HIS OWN SEXUAL NEEDS.[29]

            Some of the data published in the two Kinsey Reports books is controversial in the scientific and psychiatric communities, due to Kinsey’s decision to interview volunteers who may not have been representative of the general population.[30]

            Kinsey collected sexual material from around the world, which brought him to the attention of U.S. Customs when they seized some PORNOGRAPHIC FILMS in 1956; he died before this matter was resolved legally.[26] Kinsey wrote about PRE-ADOLESCENT ORGASMS using data in tables 30 to 34 of the male volume…. Kinsey said he also INTERVIEWED NINE MEN WHO HAD SEXUAL EXPERIENCES WITH CHILDREN, and who told him about the children’s responses and reactions. Little attention was paid to this part of Kinsey’s research at the time, but where Kinsey had gained this information began to be questioned nearly 40 years later.[33] …

            Jones wrote that Kinsey’s sexual activity influenced his work, that he over-represented prisoners and prostitutes, classified some single people as “married”,[37] and that he included a DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF HOMOSEXUAL MEN, which may have distorted his studies.[24][25] While he has been criticized for omitting African-Americans from his research,[38] his report on the human male includes numerous references to African American participants.[39] … Paul Gebhard, who was Kinsey’s colleague from 1946 to 1956 and who also succeeded Kinsey as Director of the Kinsey Institute following his death,[40] attempted to justify Kinsey’s work in the 1970s by removing some of the suspect data he alleged showed a bias towards homosexuality.[40]” (from Wikipedia, emphasis added)

            Wow! You vehemently deny my concerns and those of other posters here that say our society is on a slippery slope toward endorsing pedophilia, and here is the person you use as the “voice of authority on a matter concerning human sexuality”….INTERVIEWING PEDOPHILES AND REPORTING ON ORGASMS FOR LITTLE CHILDREN!!!

            I’m sorry, I wouldn’t consider myself a prude, but your “voice of authority” sounds an awful lot like a sexual predator and pervert to me, but I’m a woman, so perhaps some of the male posters on here can chime in with their opinions. And I can’t help but wonder if ONE of the pedophiles “interviewed” wasn’t Kensey himself!

          • sangrita

            Regardless of Kinsey’s character as a human being, his studies remain the gold standard in the field of human sexual behavior.

          • bfport

            “Some of the data published in the two Kinsey Reports book is controversial in the scientific and psychiatric communities…” doesn’t sound like a gold standard–sounds like something that is highly disputed among his own peers.

            “…he over-represented prisoners and prostitutes, classified some single people as “married”, and … he included a disproportionate number of homosexual men…” doesn’t sound like a gold standard–sounds more like skewing data to the results you want.

            “While he has been criticized for omitting African-Americans from his research, his report on the human male includes numerous references to African American participants.” doesn’t sound like a gold standard–sounds more like an outright lie.

            “Paul Gebhard…ATTEMPTED TO JUSTIFY Kinsey’s work…by removing some of the suspect data he alleged showed a bias towards homosexuality.” (emphasis added) doesn’t sound like a gold standard–sounds like even his successor knew Kensey had manipulated and misrepresented both data and conclusions.

            I’ll stick with the REAL gold standard that comes from God.

          • sangrita

            That’s nice, meanwhile psychologists keep seeing Kinsey’s findings over and over. Interesting that you don’t state where your quotes come from. Likely a Christian publication.

          • bfport

            All the quotes are from my previous post about Kinsey (to which you replied that he’s still the “gold standard of human sexual behavior”, all excerpts taken from Wikipedia AS STATED in that post.

            Do you mean “psychologists keep seeing Kinsey’s findings” or something else?

            Hopefully there aren’t many psychologists worth their salt that are out attempting to disprove what Kinsey had to say by researching “pre-adolescent orgasms” or by interviewing “nine men who had sexual experiences with children.” So exactly how would you have them go about disputing his findings without becoming sexual predators and perverts themselves?

            I get it–you want a license to steal when it comes to sexual relations, (we probably all do), whether you are prone to heterosexual or homosexual relations. Keep on reading and citing a sexual pervert as your ultimate authority if you want. Keep on having sexual relationships with anyone and everyone, whether of the same sex or not. But the bottom line will still be that you (and this “minister”) are living in sin AS DEFINED BY GOD (not me or anyone else posting here), and someday you will stand before him (not before me or anyone else on this post) and answer for your decisions. If you KNEW that was going to be TOMORROW, would you do anything different TONIGHT?

          • sangrita

            I see what’s going on. Since Kinsey delved into learning about some distasteful sexual practices in order to learn more about human sexuality, you have found it necessary to demonize him – I’m sure the fact he supported the theory of evolution is probably troubling for you as well.
            A friend of mine is a therapist and she confirmed that Kinsey is still the gold standard for many things related to human sexuality. His findings were accurate and current findings have not changed too much.
            Is there a reason you feel that pre-adolescent orgasms and the insights provided by sexual predators should not be revealed? If we can learn something from the mind of a pedophile that might prevent incidents of pedophilia, do you think that is bad? Why would researching these things turn a person into a sexual predator or pervert, in your view? Is this something you learned from the Bible?
            I see nothing indicating Kinsey was a pervert – although your definition of the word no doubt contains elements which wouldn’t be found in a normal definition – but whether he was or wasn’t, the quality of the data he gathered shouldn’t be called into question.
            I should also point out that although I’m technically not an atheist, I’m not inclined to believe I will ever “stand before” your God. Just putting that out there in case it was intended as some sort of scare or threat.

          • bfport

            As stated and supported earlier, his own colleagues questioned the quality of his data and the validity of his conclusions. But I can see that makes no difference to you, so we’ll just agree to disagree. Goodnight.

          • Jon Peterman

            there is only ONE, and that is CHRIST

          • LadyInChrist♥BlessedBeTheLord

            Amen.

          • LadyInChrist♥BlessedBeTheLord

            Both

          • cadcoke5

            Sangrita, to provide another similar argument to yours, why should the pedophile suppress their desires to “love” children? There is more to this analogous situation, since many consider pedophilia to be a sexual orientation and is unlikely something that can be changed.

            Even if homosexuality and pedophilia somehow get wired into the brain, and if people are not typically cured of this tendency, it remains that this is sinful. Acting on either desire, or even promoting them as not-sinful, is something that automatically should exlude someone from ministry, or even membership, in a church that claims to honor Christ.

          • sangrita

            Comparisons between homosexuality to pedophilia, not to mention the other usual suspects such as murder and rape, are ridiculous, because in the case of pedophilia, murder and rape, there is an abused party. A child cannot consent. Homosexuality between consenting adults is the key here.

          • cadcoke5

            Sangrita, a child cannot consent to any sort of affection, yet physical affection is expected, and even necessary for the child to receive to develop normally. The child’s parents also properly give permission, and even encourage a child to give physical affection. E.g. “Give your Grandma, a kiss goodby”.

            However, our society has properly prohibited a child from giving permission, or even the parents from giving permission, for sexual activity. It does this, because it has deemed the activity to be morally wrong. The UMC, in its Book of Discipline, (as well as the larger true body of Christ) has recognized the clear teaching of scripture in regards to homosexuality, that it is morally wrong.

            So, yes, it is properly demanded that Cynthia Meyer, “must suppress her ability to love another human being in a physical way? – if that “love” involves immoral sexual acts.

          • sangrita

            You had me, and then you lost me.
            Sexual relations with a child is wrong and will always be wrong.
            Cynthia Meyer is not a child but an adult – there is no reason why she should suppress her ability to express love in a physical way.

          • bfport

            What so many have attempted to point out is that if there is no source for moral absolutes (the Word of God in the form of the Bible), then sexual relations with a child will be wrong ONLY AS LONG AS a society DECIDES that it’s wrong. Just because you and I think it’s wrong, doesn’t mean everyone else or even that the majority of people in a society will think it’s wrong.

            If you have no line-in-the-sand absolutes for defining what is right and what is wrong, then the line-in-the-sand keeps getting blurred and even outright moved–sometimes by miles, ALL DEPENDING ON HOW THE PARTICULAR SOCIETY DECIDES what and where the NEW line should be.

            I can GUARANTEE YOU that there are already MANY people who have decided that sex with a child is just fine, or we wouldn’t have children being sold as sex slaves. I can GUARANTEE you that there are already MANY people who have decided that sex without consent is perfectly acceptable, or we wouldn’t have women being sold as sex slaves. You and I consider their behavior sick and perverse EXACTLY BECAUSE this country’s laws are based on Biblical principles.

            And those Biblical principles are under attack from every direction, including from you and everyone else who has moved the line-in-the-sand to say that homosexual relations are now acceptable. The MAJORITY of the society in this country (the US) voted into LAW, the Defense of Marriage Act (that marriage should be between one man and one woman), but a FEW decided that it should not be enforced, then EVEN FEWER decided that it was against the Constitution–shouldn’t everyone be allowed to marry whomever they choose?

            Tomorrow, a FEW could decide that they don’t want to enforce the laws against polygamy, and EVEN FEWER decide that outlawing polygamy is unconstitutional–shouldn’t everyone be allowed to marry whomever they choose?

            Later, a FEW could decide that they don’t want to enforce the laws against pedophilia, and EVEN FEWER decide that outlawing pedophilia is unconstitutional–shouldn’t everyone be allowed to have sex with whomever they choose?

            You are correct–“Sexual relations with a child is wrong and will always be wrong.” And I truly hope that our society will ALWAYS treat it as wrong.

          • cadcoke5

            I was attempting to illustrate the fact that there are several kinds of sexual relationships that are wrong, even if both parties “love” each other and enjoy the relationship. Scripture is quite clear that homosexual acts are sinful. So, if they wish to submit to God’s will, they must either live a life without sex, or become heterosexual.

            The reason I use the quotes around “love” is to indicate that I am not using it to describe real love. If they actually loved their sexual partner with a Godly love, they would not seek to lead their sexual partner into sin.

          • bfport

            Sangrita–there are numerous men in this world who would love to have sexual relations with a 3 year old little girl. Do you think that they must “suppress [their] ability to love another human being in a physical way?” They “are sexual beings.” Is this another case where you don’t “agree with just cutting off sexual contact completely…. Does it seem a reasonable request, or just cruel?”

            When WE, as human beings, start deciding what is right and what is wrong, then we no longer have any moral absolutes. You and thousands of other people the world over have decided that homosexuality is perfectly acceptable. Later others may decide that polygamy sounds wonderfully appealing, so let’s all accept that. Then comes the decision that sex with little children is acceptable. Then comes the decision that it’s OK for a person to marry their sheep (or dog, or goat, or ???). And what about forced sex–what happens when the majority are more than eager to support that?

            Every human on this planet could decide that homosexual relations (or any of the other situations mentioned) are acceptable to God because he loves everyone, but that DOES NOT make it true. We could all decide that having sex with anyone (or anything) at any time is acceptable to God, but that would not make it true. YES, God does love EVERY SINGLE ONE of us, but he HATES SIN, and HE has defined what that is in Scripture, and homosexual relations are clearly spelled out as sin (actually referred to as an abomination to God). And, yes, we ALL sin, but God requires us to REPENT, or TURN FROM our sins, NOT continue to try to justify remaining in sin.

          • sangrita

            It doesn’t matter who on this earth desires sex with a 3-year old, it will always be a crime because it will always be considered an act of abuse because a 3-year old cannot CONSENT. This is why age of consent laws are in place.
            It is really amazing to me that so many Christians on this forum struggle with the concept of consenting adults. And the bogus, ridiculous comparisons continue.

          • bfport

            I didn’t speak about what is accepted, I spoke about what is possible in the future. The point I was trying to make was that just because society considers something morally wrong today doesn’t mean they will still consider it morally wrong tomorrow, and we seem to rapidly sliding down a slippery slope of moral decay.

            Many societies throughout history accepted things as the norm that we would today consider unthinkable. Without moral absolutes, how do we measure what is right and what is wrong? Who decides what is right and what is wrong? Hitler? Fidel Castro? Kim Jung Un? Sadaam Hussain? Jack the Ripper? Al Capone?

            I don’t know where you are located, but the US was founded on Biblical principles–our laws were based on those principles (and the FACT that we have a CONSENT law is based in Biblical principles. When you throw out God’s laws, the only moral absolute, then we have no measuring stick for morality any more.

          • Ken Faivor

            “We are born sinners”
            ……………………………………….

            But then we were reborn and we can say that we were sinners and that we are being save by His grace.

          • TheBBP

            Correct. Trying to flee from sin as our relationship with Christ compels us to is part of that. Making an unrepentant choice to remain a sinner as this woman is doing is not.

          • Impykins

            Actually the United Methodist rules specifically state she CANT be a pastor if she’s gay. That’s the core of the issue…not what the Bible says. PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE.

      • CPL71

        1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NASB)
        9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
        10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

        • sangrita

          Yup, I’ve only heard that verse about 5000 times. It doesn’t negate the fact that people are born homosexual and can do precisely nothing about it.

          • Ken Faivor

            You obviously don’t believe that Jesus saves from sin.

          • sangrita

            Irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

          • guerito777

            It is precisely the discussion at hand.

          • sangrita

            No, it’s completely irrelevant. Because your Corinthians verse refers to actions, and being a lesbian isn’t an action, it’s a state of being. She may be a celibate lesbian. Homosexuality is not an action. It’s not what you do. It’s about attraction and who you are.

          • guerito777

            1)Corinthians says “as some of you were”, which refers to a state of being that no longer is. Therefore, I stand by my stance of it being relevant.

            2) furthermore she admits to living with her lover. Any assumption that living in that arrangement is conducive to celibacy is stretching credibility.

          • sangrita

            Not relevant. Sexuality is fixed and does not change. We know this from science.
            It’s entirely possible she could be living a celibate life and still be living with a partner.

          • guerito777

            Not proven by science, and there are many former homosexuals that testify the opposite. And as I said that living arrangement stretches credibility

          • sangrita

            Absolutely proven by science, not to mention Exodus International which was the largest “ex-gay” organization on earth until they admitted fraud, apologized, and closed their doors for good.
            It doesn’t matter what stretches credibility, you simply can’t know what is going on.

          • guerito777

            1) you have not provided any links to scientific studies because it is not proven
            2)I know nothing of exodus international, but have known gays that have been transformed, not to mention the various articles written about transformed gays

            3) She openly admits to being gay. Admits she’s living with her lover with the implication that she is a practicing lesbian. You want to deny that her whole purpose was to be open about her lifestyle.

          • sangrita

            1) apa dot org
            2) Self delusion is common, but looking deeper at these cases you often see that what they have done is aversion therapy, not conversion. And getting homosexuals to simply stop sexual activity has not converted them. The few who did change were bisexual to begin with.
            3) It isn’t your place to speculate what goes on in the bedroom of anyone.

          • guerito777

            1) home page, not an actual link to any studies
            2) you will believe a person that says they are gay, or a straight that switched, but not a gay that says they are now straight.smh

            3) Again, she was “coming out”, i.e. admitting her lifestyle. you are in denial.

            4) I am done with this debate as you want to deflect and deny reality

          • sangrita

            1) http://www.apa. org/topics/lgbt/orientation.aspx

            “All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective. Furthermore, it seems likely that the promotion of change therapies reinforces stereotypes and contributes to a negative climate for lesbian, gay and bisexual persons. This appears to be especially likely for lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals who grow up in more conservative religious settings.”

            2) We can observe people who were married for many years and even had children, and reach a point where they cannot live a lie anymore. The opposite does not happen.

            3) “Coming out” means admitting you are homosexual, which again, is itself not an action.

            4) Bye.

          • Amos Moses

            “Not relevant. Sexuality is fixed and does not change. ”

            But trannys say it is “fluid” ……… so who is lying ……….. what about bisexys ……. are they fluid or fixed ………..

          • sangrita

            It is fluid for bisexuals and transgenders.
            It is not fluid for homosexuals.
            That’s why we have different words for them. See how it works?

          • Amos Moses

            WOW ……….. you make a declarative statement that it is fixed ….. you said “Sexuality is fixed and does not change. ” …….. no “it is this for this but it this for that” ………. and now you backpedal like there is no tomorrow to cover your obviously wrong statement ………. and you cannot keep your lies straight …… so is it fixed or fluid for heteros ….. got any more made up garbage to peddle …………

          • sangrita

            No, you just seem to think here that there is no difference between homosexuals, bisexuals and transgenders, and that somehow the same rule should apply to all three despite the fact they are not the same things. This is possibly the most off the wall thing you have said yet.

          • Amos Moses

            So just making up more Bovine Scatology as you go …………. post modern claptrap …………

          • sangrita

            No, it’s the simple fact that different words have different meanings. I’m sorry that is a difficult concept for you.

          • Amos Moses

            Its a simple fact that you are making up your own meanings for words so you can make up what you say ………. like playing checkers with a 5 yo and when he is losing …. makes up new rules …..

          • sangrita

            Making up my own meanings for what? All three examples you gave are different things, and you are venting your spleen because you can’t give all three words the same definition? Are you even serious?

          • Amos Moses

            No ……… sexuality is sexuality ……… it is not three different things and you said quite succinctly ………….. “Sexuality is fixed and does not change. ” …….. so it is either fluid or it is fixed ……… but now you want to wiggle and jiggle ….. because you need weasel words to get out of your lies ………. and you are a liar ……. a post modern liar ….

          • sangrita

            Sexuality IS sexuality. And homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality are three separate things under the heading of sexuality. Just like Asia is Asia, and China, Japan and Mongolia are not all the same country but different countries WITHIN Asia. See how it works?
            Homosexuality and heterosexuality are fixed. By their very dictionary definition they are fixed. Bisexuality IS more fluid. See? No lying. Just more of you not understanding.

          • Amos Moses

            “homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality are three separate things under the heading of sexuality. ”

            Not true and not what you said ………….

          • sangrita

            I didn’t specify that bisexuality wasn’t fluid because it’s obvious in the word’s definition. The other statements are very much correct and what I said. You cannot change your sexuality.

          • Amos Moses

            So your definitions are of your own making ……….. as i said ……… and just more Bovine Scatology ……… thnx ………..

            “You cannot change your sexuality.””…bisexuality wasn’t fluid because it’s obvious in the word’s definition. ” ……… cant even keep your lies straight in the same post ….. self-refuting, lying, nonsensical, Bovine Scatology ………… EXTREME FAIL ………..

          • sangrita

            I’m sorry your failure to understand has caused a tantrum.
            Sexuality can’t be changed. That’s true even if you are bisexual. If you were attracted to both sexes, you always will be. So my statement is still true.
            In terms of homosexuals and heterosexuals, they likewise will always be what they are. A heterosexual will not suddenly change halfway through their life and become homosexual. When we hear stories of apparently straight men leaving their wives halfway through their lives to form relationships with other men, clearly they were not heterosexual to begin with. And they will tell you that they suppressed their feelings and lived a lie and may even have managed to have children.

          • Amos Moses

            No tantrum …….. you cannot keep your lies straight ………

          • sangrita

            I didn’t lie once.
            Not once.
            Your comprehension difficulties are your own issue.

          • Amos Moses

            Sure you lied ….. you may not think you did ………. but you did …….. you are either the liar ….. or you are spreading a lie ………… a difference with no difference ………….

          • sangrita

            What’s the lie, then? Do you need to have things explained again, is that the problem?

          • Amos Moses

            “What’s the lie, then?”

            “You cannot change your sexuality.””…bisexuality wasn’t fluid because it’s obvious in the word’s definition. ”

            ….. so the lie is ….. “you cannot change” it …….. unless you can …….. Bovine Scatology ……… lies ….. post modern clap trap …….. self-refuting nonsense …..

          • sangrita

            Just like I said. The statements are true and you just have an enormous problem with reading comprehension.
            “You cannot change your sexuality”
            True. What you are is what you will always be.
            A bisexual moving from a male to a female isn’t changing his sexuality. He’s still bisexual.
            See how it works now?

          • 201821208 :)

            “a false witness will utter lies” Proverbs 14:5

          • bfport

            The article specifically stated she “loves and shares [her] life with another woman.” Doesn’t sound like a celibate lesbian to me.

          • guerito777

            Irrelevant if they are born into it or choose it.

            Eph 4:20-24
            But you have not so learned Christ,
            if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

            God can do something about it. In fact, we are instructed to do our part in conjunction with Him.

  • BravesFan

    You cannot have your sin and call yourself a Christian too. And it’s not up to the church to bend the rules for someone like you. There’s this little thing called the Bible, which is God’s Holy Word, and you don’t get to make up your own brand of Christianity.

    • Impykins

      Actually the problem here was that there were specific rules here, the United Methodist Book of Discipline, that said a priest/pastor could not be homosexual. You can find a passage in the Bible to condemn anything.

      • Amos Moses

        “You can find a passage in the Bible to condemn anything.”

        No .. wrong …….

        • Impykins

          Clearly you haven’t read Leviticus, have you? Nice dodge on my response, too.

          • Amos Moses

            Clearly that is all you have concentrated on ………. and you do not consider the whole of scripture …. well, to be honest ….. you do not consider scripture in the least ……..

          • Impykins

            When you calm down, you’ll realize that by answering the way you did, you just confirmed my original point. I said you can find a passage in the Bible to condemn anything. I am well aware that Leviticus is primarily addressing the rules by which the priesthood should adhere to, and is not addressing all followers of the faith. That means NOTHING to my original point. The words are there, the words can be quoted, what the greater text as a whole means does not mean a damned thing to my point.

            Now, if you want to open your brain a bit, you’ll think about those people that say how parts of the Quran espouse violence when defenders of the Muslim faith try to explain that ‘violence is not what the religion is about’. Look back at what you just said about me taking quotes from the Bible out of context and THINK about that. HMMMM.

          • Amos Moses

            “what the greater text as a whole means does not mean a damned thing to my point.”

            Which proves my point ………. you do not know what you are talking about ……. except what you may have gleened from some www trashthebible. whatever ………

            HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

          • Impykins

            You aren’t even bothering to read what I’m saying, are you? Just desperately trying to come up with some sort of gotcha response. I’m not trying to trash the Bible, genius, just making a statement that it, like most religious texts, can be quoted to support pretty much any point you want to make. A lot like politicians do on both sides of the US political fence here (See Obama’s ‘you didn’t build that yourself’ comment or whats-his-names ‘I build the Internet’ comment). And yet you still keep coming back with ‘but see, you don’t understand what it means, haha, I’m so superior’.

            Get it through your head: the meaning doesn’t matter, in the context of what I’m saying. My statement pertains to the words actually being there to quote verbatim.

          • Amos Moses

            “ust desperately trying to come up with some sort of gotcha response.”

            No …. that seems to be your debate technique ……..

            “I’m not trying to trash the Bible, genius, just making a statement that it, like most religious texts, can be quoted to support pretty much any point you want to make.”

            So if you have an intelligent point to make …. then make it ….. but so far …. you have not done so …. your only point seems to be to trash talk scripture as it is MISused and to not talk about Christ ………….. or anything else for that matter …………. and it reflects badly on you ….. not anyone else ……….

          • Impykins

            Forget it, you’re too dense and too full of yourself. Check your Christian Arrogance at the door and calm down.

          • Amos Moses

            Yeah …… that wins all debate ….. a few facts and some scripture would go along way ……… but you have interest in neither ………..

  • cadcoke5

    The church has failed to do what scripture demands, and rather than put the decision off until the next general conference, they should have continued the process to defrock her.

    I think the passage of the ban on homosexual leaders was pushed by the membership, rather than the leaders. They have continued to waffled on this subject for decades, and as a consequence they are having more of its member lead astray. Of course, there is another consequence. They have lead people who care about God’s word, out of the denomination.

  • susan sennett

    I know this is focused on he sexual orientation as a lesbian but I also question a woman serving as a minister.. I Timothy 2:12-14 says “And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.”
    In the church, as the apostle Paul explains here, ordination of women deviates from the roles God has judged to be appropriate from the beginning. There is no difference, however, in terms of salvation; God gives men and women equal opportunity to enter His Kingdom.

    • Michael Ellis

      Susan Sennett: two totally different issues. And you are taking 1 Timothy 2:12-14 completely out of context

      • Fred Cox

        Might help if you would explain the ‘context’ as you understand it to be…

      • Amos Moses

        No ……. she has it right ……… this lesbian … as a woman …… is leading the body of Christ away from Christ ………..

  • Bertha Warren

    I wander, this Pastor ask, for the annointing of Holy Spirit, before reading The Bible, the Holy Spirit will bring all truth, of how Believers are to live. That why through the Holy Spirit Paul wrote letters to Believers are to live. God has set high standards, for Believers. That why He said said He must go and Send the Holy Spirit lead us to all truth.

  • Sandy Bouchard

    II Peter 2:1-6 Even false ministers will be punished. They have to change their ways. There is no more excuse. If you sin after you know the truth, you die without mercy even more harsher than those who despised the laws of Moses before the New Testament was created. Once again God will judge his people. What do you think the final judgment day is? (Hebrews 10:26-31; Revelations 22:10-13) If you die while you are filthy and unjust, you remain that way forever. That is your just reward.

  • LizRbeth

    If the denomination spent a lot more time worrying about what the Bible says, and a lot less time worrying about what their man-made “Book of Disciple” says they wouldn’t find themselves in this situation.

    • Michael D Coxie

      Liz with all due respect book of disciple is based off of scripture in denying a position of leadership to her. lesbians and homosexuals both can not hold a position either as deacons or sunday school teachers pastors etc due to scriptures if you would like I can get those scriptures for you. they must not be taken to strong drink they must be husband to 1 wife ( Man and wife ) ( Man and Woman ) etc. she KNEW that when she was ordained AND so did the person who ordained her. the only choice she has at this point is to do the right thing step down and be defrocked.

      • bfport

        However, the Bible also indicates that a woman should NOT be pastor of a church, which their “Book of Disciple” goes against. This article only refers to her as a “minister” and doesn’t indicate whether or not she is a pastor.

        • Michael D Coxie

          minister is commonly another word referenced to as a pastor is it not?

          • bfport

            We have a female Children’s Minister in our church, but she is not the pastor. Therefore she is not a teacher of men, but of children (and occasionally of other women).

    • http://books.parsonplace.com Rev. Michael L. White

      Exactly right; and the Bible specifically commands AGAINST homosexuality in both the OT and NT.

  • Alan Thompson

    Ha Ha.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Female ordination has been wrong to start with – the leading cause of sexual confusion within the church and in the society. One deliberate disobedience to God leads to another more deadly disobedience.

    • Bob Johnson

      Ah, so you do agree at least in part with the Catholic Church.

      • Amos Moses

        Recent stories seem to indicate the the RCC is going into apostasy and that policy may change ……

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        The Catholic Church has a lot of right and good things – much better than today’s Western mainliners. It’s sad that today’s West’s Sodomic inclination is nullifying everything the historic noble Christian forefathers have done in the Western civilization. Humanism massacred the Jews in the last century, and the same humanism is massacring the unborn babies and forcing sexual depravity upon mankind this century – the Earth’s real crisis. The West needs Biblical Christianity. Christianity and immorality are incompatible.

  • 201821208 :)

    “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.” Rom. 1:26-27

    • Bob Johnson

      So homosexuality is not the sin, but rather the punishment for the sin.

      • 201821208 :)

        “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” Leviticus 18:22

        • Bob Johnson

          Ah, so the Old Testament’s prohibitions are all still in effect?

          • 201821208 :)

            “Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

          • Bob Johnson

            So does not growing a full beard make you effeminate?

          • 201821208 :)

            No.

          • Bob Johnson

            I know some Jewish rabbis who would disagree.

          • Amos Moses

            i have seen bearded ladies ….. is that what you mean ……

          • Amos Moses

            If you are not saved and been given the gift of repentance …….. tho OT law still applies ………. and even some NT laws ………. so yeah ………..

      • TheKingOfRhye

        Hey, that would mean homosexuality isn’t a choice, wouldn’t it?

  • 201821208 :)

    “God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3–5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s plan and His gifting of them.”

  • C_Alan_Nault

    Gay is a choice

    • 201821208 :)

      Amen!!!

    • Amos Moses

      ……….and not much of one at that ……….

    • Jalapeno

      That’s weird. I never chose to not be attracted to someone of the same gender. Did you?

      • Amos Moses

        You may choose to believe you did not ……….. but you did choose …… many murderers do not remember choosing to murder ….. but it was not a accident …. a choice was made ….. thieves may not remember when they chose to be a thief …. but they chose …………

        • Jalapeno

          They didn’t choose to WANT to murder…they choose to commit the act.

          I did not choose who I was attracted to. I did choose who to act on that attraction with.

          • Amos Moses

            Yes ………. they may not recall the moment they did ….. but they did ….. and the death is the proof of the choice …………

            “I did not choose who I was attracted to. I did choose who to act on that attraction with.”

            Yes …. you did ……. and you just said so ………

          • Jalapeno

            No.

            I did NOT CHOOSE who I was attracted to.

            I choose who I actually have a relationship with.

            Can you not tell the difference?

          • Amos Moses

            You chose both ……… whether you admit it or not ………..

          • Jalapeno

            Not many guys would admit that they had to make a CHOICE to not be attracted to men.

            That’s also usually called being “bisexual”.

          • Amos Moses

            We are all attracted to sex ….. there is a reason for it …… procreation ……….. people choose …… for whatever reason …. to misuse its intended use …… but it is no less a choice …. otherwise ….. your only argument is that you are a victim …… and have no choice ….. and that is just stupid and untrue …………..

          • Jalapeno

            I’m not attracted to women in the slightest.

            Most people do not choose who to be attracted to. If you choose who to be attracted to, and could choose to be attracted to men, then you are most likely bisexual.

          • Amos Moses

            So you misuse it …… your choice … got it ………..

          • Jalapeno

            If you wanted to, could you choose to be attracted to men?

          • Amos Moses

            The homoagenda seems to think this is the “GOTCHA” question …. and you are all so full of yourselves, full of your own PRIDE …….. you cannot even admit the truth …. you have asked me this before … you did not like the answer then and you will not like it now …….

            When i was an unregenerate sinner …. sure …. as any man is and does …….. but my loyalty now is to Christ Jesus and His salvific works in me …. and not to a penis or any orifice …..

          • Jalapeno

            See…what I think you don’t get is that most people aren’t just making it up or lying to themselves when they say that they couldn’t have chosen to be attracted to the same gender.

            I know, I know..you WANT to believe that most people are just lying about it because it’s easier than believing that you’re bisexual.

          • Amos Moses

            “what I think you don’t get is that most people aren’t just making it ….. you WANT to believe that most people are just lying about it because it’s easier than believing that you’re bisexual.”

            Not bisexual, homosexual, heterosexual ……….. my identity DOES NOT RELY ON SEX ………….. that is the absolute lowest common denominator of identity ……… the absolute most denegrating thing a person can base their identity on …..and that seems to be all those of the homosexual agenda WANT to believe …… that your identity is what you stick in what ……. and it is a CHOICE ……….. no one forces you to do what you do …… BUT YOU ………. and they do not want to accept any responsibility for what they do ….. and they do not want anyone to tell them they are WRONG in not accepting responsibility……………. and THAT is the lie they tell themselves and everyone else …………. and if the LIE is not abhorrent to you …. that is all we really need to know ……………..

          • Jalapeno

            ” my identity DOES NOT RELY ON SEX”

            Most peoples doesn’t. I’m still a heterosexual…it’s just not my identity. It’s merely a descriptor, along side my gender, age, and occupation.

            And for you..it seems “bisexual” would be the accurate descriptor.

          • Amos Moses

            Most do not have “Pride” in it ………. but the homoagenda ……….. DOES …. and it is a lie …. and we object to the lie they want us to believe ………….

            “it seems “bisexual” would be the accurate descriptor.”

            No ……. it is not ………..

          • Jalapeno

            Most people don’t make their religion their whole identity, some do.

            Most people don’t make their job their whole identity, some do.

            “No ……. it is not ………..”

            If you could choose to be attracted to men, then there has to be some innate attraction.

            If you are attracted to both men and women, then the term is “bisexual”.

          • Amos Moses

            Those who have high morals and have accepted Christ ….. DO ………

            “If you are attracted to both men and women, then the term is “bisexual”.”

            i am not ….. i am attracted to Christ and heaven ………. not some debased humanistic construct of this world …….

          • Jalapeno

            “i am not ….. i am attracted to Christ and heaven ………. not some debased humanistic construct of this world …….”

            Ah, so you’re not actually attracted to ANY human beings?

          • Amos Moses

            This is not my world ….. i am a transient ……. a passerby of the things of this world …. i am temporarily stuck here …. a stranger in a strange land ….. i am here to speak the words of Christ ………. not to be a worshipper of the flesh …..

            6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
            6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
            6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

            If you treasure is your flesh …… have fun …. it will not last …. not even your lifetime ………

          • Jalapeno

            Sure.

            Most Christians are attracted to actual human beings too…

          • Amos Moses

            You are not a christian ……….. so your observations as to that are null …….

          • Jalapeno

            Have you never heard of married Christians? Are you under the impression that they aren’t attracted to each other?

          • Amos Moses

            Again …. demonstrating your lack of knowledge of those things christian …..

            Christian marriage = a marriage based on Christ = devotion to Christ and being in agreement with Christ ………….

            Homosexual Marriage = a “marriage” based on being a homosexual = devotion to the flesh and slavery to it ……………

          • Jalapeno

            Do you think that a Christian husband and wife are not attracted to each other?

          • Amos Moses

            Their attraction is to Christ first …….. as the basis for their even being together …….

            10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
            10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
            10:36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
            10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
            10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

            If Christ is not the basis ….. it is not a christian marriage …. if a person loves their spouse more than Christ ……….. it is not a christian marriage …..

          • Jalapeno

            Sure…their religious views come first.

            Does that mean they aren’t attracted to each other?

          • Amos Moses

            It is not relevant as the basis of the marriage ….. the attraction a christian has is to Christ first ….. the rest means nothing ………. pursuit of the flesh is irrelevant …. the appearance of Christ in the other person is the attraction …………

          • Jalapeno

            I’m not asking if it’s the basis of the marriage.

            I’m asking if they are attracted to each other.

          • Amos Moses

            and i gave you the answer ……… learn to parse ……….

          • Jalapeno

            So..you’re acknowledging that married people can be attracted to each other?

            Again..not asking if you think it’s relevant.

          • Amos Moses

            The topic we are discussing is christian marriage …………………. was it not ……. outside of that … not relevant ….

          • Jalapeno

            Not quite.

            So..you’re acknowledging that people within a Christian marriage can be attracted to each other?

          • Amos Moses

            They are attracted to Christ in the other person ………

          • Jalapeno

            So..you don’t think the two people actually have any attraction to the other person?

          • Amos Moses

            Do i have to keep repeating it ……….

          • Jalapeno

            You’ve answered it both ways. Shouldn’t be hard.

          • Amos Moses

            Then why do you keep asking … you have your answer …. they are attracted to Christ …. the appearance of Christ in the other person …..

          • Jalapeno

            Okay, sure. Lets just pretend like you’re right.

            Seems like that’s not gender specific.

          • Amos Moses

            No …… that is not inline with the mind of Christ …. when one becomes a christian …. through repentance … the mind comes into line with the thoughts of Christ and scripture ….

          • Jalapeno

            So..it’s specific to people who follow your line of thinking.

            How do you think attraction works for everyone else?

          • Amos Moses

            “So..it’s specific to people who follow your line of thinking.”

            No, Christs thinking …….

            “How do you think attraction works for everyone else?”

            Not my problem ……… they choose early death ………. it would be better if they did not …. it would be better if they heard and listened to Christ ….. but not everyone will be saved ….. nor should they be ……… and it is not attraction to another …. it is attraction to SIN ……

          • Jalapeno

            Got it.

            You don’t actually think that attraction is a thing.

  • Amos Moses

    3 BISHOPS RIP BIDEN FOR OFFICIATING ‘SAME-SEX MARRIAGE’
    Say ‘Catholics must oppose’ such unions because of moral confusion

    WND…

    • Bob Johnson

      To quote you (Amos Moses). “Recent stories seem to indicate the the RCC is going into apostasy and that policy may change ……”

      • Amos Moses

        Gotta give you that one ……..

  • Gena B

    I wonder if she ever believed the Bible she read, considering how much it contains on the roles of men and women, homosexuality, the roles of a pastor etc…what did she read from? It doesn’t make any sense.

  • Amos Moses

    Orlando nightclub terrorist’s father sits behind Hillary at Kissimmee rally
    AUGUST 9, 2016
    BY KYLE OLSON

    Hillary Clinton has a new champion: the homophobic father of the Orlando gay nightclub terrorist.

    Seddique Mateen was seen sitting just feet from the Democratic nominee during her Kissimmee, Florida rally on Monday night.

    It was no coincidence: the space behind the stage — directly facing the TV cameras — is always arranged by campaign staffers for the appearance of maximum diversity.

    But she is the “friend” of the LGBLTQRSTUVWXYZ etc.

  • Amos Moses

    Radical Muslim Dad Rallies with Hillary: Disarm Law-Abiding Citizens Who Could Have Stopped My Son…

    …Democrats Pick Muslims over Gays…

  • http://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/ Kingdom Ambassador

    Put on leave!?!

    I’m sure they don’t want to be accused of discrimination. Therefore, I would suggest if they find they have any clergy who are murders or rapists that they also put them on leave. After all, one capital criminal is same as another capital criminal, right? Well, it is to Yahweh!

    For more regarding how Yahweh’s moral law (including those pertaining to homosexuality, murder, and rape) apply and should be implemented today, see free online book “Law and Kingdom: Their Relevance Under the New Covenant.” Click on my picture, then our website. Go to our Online Books page and scroll down to title.

  • Gregory Alan of Johnson

    It seems the Holy Scriptures no longer matter to the Methodist denomination.

  • Pastor Bill

    The Methodist Church now has many homosexual pastors filling their pulpits. Somebody should have woke up at least twenty years ago, before they elected to no longer be a Christian denomination.

  • Bob

    I want my Japanese green tea in a glass not a cup please.
    No Mam that’s next door, were a coffee shop.
    Yea but I want my tea steeped longer and chilled too.
    No Mam that type of drink we do not serve to our patrons.
    Bigot
    You prejudiced fool
    What ?
    I’m being discriminated against.
    Look you knew we were a coffee shop when you began working here so what’s up.

  • Amos Moses

    Plunging sales and a market cap crash of an estimated $11 billion have convinced Target to try to persuade customers with traditional values that their restrooms still are safe after the company announced earlier this year that people could use the facilities of the gender with which they ‘identify.”

    On Wednesday, Fortune reported, the company announced plans to spend $20 million to add private single-stall locking bathrooms at all of its stores where that option is not currently offered.

    The company already has single-stall bathrooms anyone can use at about 1,400 of its 1,800 stores, Target spokesperson Katie Boylan said.

    The report directly blamed the drop in shopper traffic at least partly on the retailer’s “transgender-friendly” bathroom policy, which the retailer does not intend to alter. Target shoppers will still be allowed to “use the restroom or fitting room facility that corresponds with their gender identity.”

    However, Boylan said Target decided to add single-stall, lockable bathrooms in all of its stores “because we’re listening.”

    The transgender bathroom policy announced in April prompted hundreds of thousands of people to sign petitions and pledges to avoid the retailer.

    WND ……….