Trial Set for Second Man Accused of Helping Ex-Lesbian Flee Country With Daughter

Miller and Isabella

BUFFALO, N.Y. — A trial has been set for a second man accused of aiding an ex-lesbian turned professing Christian who fled the country with her daughter seven years ago to avoid a situation she found harmful to her child.

Philip Zodhiates of Waynesboro, Virginia is charged with international parental kidnapping and conspiracy for allegedly driving Lisa Miller and her then seven-year-old child from Virginia to New York, where she crossed over into Canada before fleeing to Nicaragua.

“This case is about religious intolerance of same-sex relationships,” prosecutorial filings state, according to the Associated Press. He “helped [Miller] break the law by taking Isabella outside the country in the name of those strong religious views.”

As previously reported, the situation began in 2000, when Lisa Miller, then a homosexual, joined in a civil union with lesbian Janet Jenkins in the state of Vermont. Following an artificial insemination procedure, Miller gave birth to baby Isabella in 2002.

In 2003, Miller and Jenkins split, and Miller moved to Virginia. She renounced homosexuality and reportedly turned to Jesus Christ for salvation. When the civil union was officially dissolved, the court gave custody to Miller, while also granting visitation rights to Jenkins.

While Miller did allow Isabella to spend time with Jenkins for a while, she reportedly became very concerned at the information that her daughter was providing to her following the visitations.

Later, Miller testified to the court that the visits were causing great trauma to Isabella. She claimed that at six years old, the girl was forced to take baths together with Jenkins, and that the girl was openly touching herself inappropriately. She also stated that Isabella was withdrawn and talked about suicide at times.

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“Isabella came home and said, ‘Mommy, will you please tell Janet that I don’t have to take a bath anymore at her house,’” Miller told reporters in 2008. “I asked her what happened. She said, ‘Janet took a bath with me.’ I asked her if she had a bathing suit on. ‘No, Mommy.’ She had no clothes on and it totally scared Isabella. She had never seen this woman except once in 2 ½ years and she takes a bath with her.”

“Last year, Isabella put a comb up to her neck and said she wanted to kill herself after one of the visits,” she outlined. “She took a comb and pressed it into her neck and said, ‘I want to kill myself.’ I don’t know where she got that. It was immediately after a visit. Other people have seen huge changes.”

Miller then filed for exclusive custody of Isabella, and the court agreed. However, Jenkins fought the ruling all the way up to the Virginia Supreme Court, which in 2008, ruled in favor of granting Miller’s former lesbian partner visitation rights. Miller refused.

The following year, family court judge Richard Cohen warned Miller that she must allow Isabella to visit Jenkins and threatened that if she did not do so, he would transfer full custody to Jenkins. In November 2009, Cohen followed through with his threats and ordered Miller to hand the child over to Jenkins.

However, Miller had fled the country with Isabella before he issued the transfer order, and for some time, none knew the whereabouts of the two. It was later discovered that they had fled to Nicaragua via the help of a number of Mennonite Christians and their contacts.

Kenneth Miller of Stuarts Draft, Virginia (no relation) is currently serving 27 months behind bars on international kidnapping charges for helping Miller. Now, Zodhiates is facing similar charges, and jury selection in his case is scheduled to take place in Buffalo, New York on Sept. 20. He had been indicted in 2014 and pleaded not guilty.

American missionary to Nicaragua, Timothy Miller—no relation to any in the case—has also allegedly been arrested in Nicaragua. He had originally been indicated, but had the charge dismissed after agreeing to work with authorities. He was accused of helping with Miller’s travel arrangements from Canada to Nicaragua.


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  • ComeOnPeople!

    So lets forget about the trauma to this child and hand her over to the person causing the trauma all for the sake of political correctness and propaganda smear complains to bash those mean old Christian converts who now see the value in protecting their innocent children from immorality and perversions . Nah nah nah lets hand our children all over to those wishing to pervert them all to further political agendas. Makes me sick to my stomach . It’s okay to go into homosexuality but it’s terribly wrong to come out of it according to the courts to come out of it. What a perverted , twisted , one sided court system we now have in America.

    • RWH

      Would you be saying the same thing if some outside do-gooder kidnapped your children. It’s interesting that the court records don’t agree with the assessment in this article.

      • Jack

        Do-gooder’s don’t kidnap children in the first place. Also this wasn’t a outsider.

        • ComeOnPeople!

          Let me just say if my child came home from being with someone and talked of them taking a bath with them and how they didn’t like it… if my child talked about killing themselves after being with said person… and then the courts ordered me to allow that person to continue to cause my child distress or harm… I’d run with my child as far as I could to protect them . ANY true mother or father knowing someone is harming their child would never hand them over to them, even by court order. Look into some of the cases where the court did not listen to the child and made them visit an abusive parent and that child ended up scared for life or worse… dead. Stop this parents rights crap and listen to the kids.

    • [email protected]

      You mean alleged trauma…in this case there was never any proof that the child was in danger. Lisa miller claims that it was a negative environment but of course she did, she wanted sole custody with no visitation rights so of course she was going to make claims that any contact with her ex-partner was negative. Her claims had their day in court and they were found to be unsubstantiated which is why she lost in court.

      • ComeOnPeople!

        No she lost because we now have a very perverted court which cares more for being politically correct then for justice or truth. They will sacrifice a child all for their LGBT agendas. They could care less what this child has stated was happening or that she was acting suicidal after staying with the other female. WHY? Because it does not fit into the picture they are trying to paint to the public. They want the public to believe that perverted lifestyles do not bleed into children and that children are better off with a homosexual or lesbian then with a Christian parent. Christians are harmful to their kids is the new propaganda being spun . Our country is quickly becoming corrupted and ruling on the side of perversion.

  • Scott Davenport

    I’m hoping these sick SOB’s keep pushing us until we shove ’em so far back in the closet it isn’t funny….the child should not be exposed to this lunatic dyke…she has no biological connection whatsoever…and that sham marriage was just that….

    • Jack

      We were warn this day would come.

    • Amos Moses

      That closet will likely be a lake of fire ……………….

    • [email protected]

      A: it was not a “sham marriage” but rather a fully legal and valid civil union.
      B: the visitation rights were agreed upon by Lisa Miller when the couple split so it is not at all surprising that they were there given that both parents agreed to them and wanted them.
      C: the courts are there to determine if there truly is abuse going on or if it just unfounded claims being made. In this case the claims Lisa was making were found to be unsubstantiated. Just becasue they are made does not mean that they are true.

      • Sharon_at_home

        How were the claims unsubstantiated? Did they interview the little girl? Did they have her talk to a child psychologist to determine what the little girl did experience and For God’s Sake why she could show what she meant by wanting to commit suicide? I’m not sure how they can be unsubstantiated if the girl was interviewed.

  • Gena B

    So if a woman had a little son and her ex husband took baths with her son and etc.. (and he was not the biological father) no judge would put that son in that mans custody. It’s almost like because of the same-sex relationship they are making it a liberal example or something. If she can stay underground till this kid turns 18 that’s the best thing.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Or it’s almost like the abuse never actually happened.

    • [email protected]

      The visitation rights were already established and were agreed upon by Lisa miller when they separated It was only after the fact that she then tried to challenge that using these allegations that were never substantiated in court. But in terms of the initial visitation rights it is not at all surprising that those were in place given that they were agreed upon by all parties when the couple split.

    • SFBruce

      I disagree with the premise of your argument. There’s nothing wrong with bathing with your infant child. In fact, it can be a wonderful way for parent and child to bond. Of course, there’s a big difference between bathing with your child and sexual abuse. Furthermore, there’s just no reason to make different rules for adoptive fathers and mothers, since they are indeed just as much the real parents as the biological ones. Adoptive parents aren’t more likely to abuse their children and being the biological parent provides no immunity against abuse. Sadly, Lisa Miller is probably doing exactly what you suggest. She’s already about 14, and the years she has been deprived of one parent will never be restored to her.

      • Gena B

        The child is not an infant nor was it at the time of the bathing incident. Also Jenkins never officially adopted the child so it would be like a step parent if anything. The child hadn’t seen or known this person in over 2 years and then had to bathe with a naked woman and showed signs of being extremely upset with that. The child was also exhibiting sexual abuse behavior and suicidal, so there is that.

        • SFBruce

          Simply bathing with your child does not equate to sexual abuse. Regardless of the fact that Jenkins never adopted the child, she was one of the only two parents she knew until Miller stood in the way. And most importantly, you’re basing your opinion only on what Miller claims. The courts heard both sides, and Jenkins prevailed.

  • Nidalap

    Sometimes, when the government won’t protect children, parents have to take drastic action.
    It’s kind of what they do…

    • Amos Moses

      i think that is part of the job description, isnt it ………….

    • [email protected]

      Only in this case there was never any proof that the child was in danger. Lisa miller claims that it was a negative environment but of course she did, she wanted sole custody with no visitation rights so of course she was going to make claims that any contact with her ex-partner was negative. her claims had their day in court and they were found to be unsubstantiated which is why she lost in court.

  • Josey

    Am praying God’s protection over this little one’s heart and mind and thank God for these brave men who stood in the gap to protect her, God bless them mightily and keep them safe and their families. The one mennonite that is serving time for helping get the little one out said he’d do it again to protect her, God bless him! Shame on the judge who forced visitations upon this child knowing she was wanting to die rather than go back, this isn’t normal behavior for a child and clearly a sign of distress and child abuse and any adult would know that especially a judge, how disgraceful and I pray that judge in that community is removed from the bench.

    • [email protected]

      So you approve of international kidnapping then?

      Lisa miller claimed that her daughter said that she wanted to kill herself as a result of the visitations, that was never substantiated in court nor were any of the allegations of an abusive environment substantiated in court. when you have disputes like this it is common for one parent to make unfounded claims agasint the other in a bid for sole custody. just assuming that Lisa Miller is telling the truth is not prudent and again, that is why we have the courts, to provide an unbiased third party for these disagreements.

      • Josey

        no, I do not but in this case and from what I’ve read from the mennonite this little one needed protection that the court wasn’t giving her. The mother went to the court first and nothing was done to protect this little one so as a mother yes, she had no choice but to do what she thought was right to protect her child from this lady. You are making it sound like this mother made these things up and I don’t believe it and yes I know it happens in custody cases but I don’t believe it in this case. The one who could substantiate it was the little girl but her word wasn’t enough apparently, at the very least supervised visitation could have been initiated to protect the child, why wasn’t that done? The child’s word should be taken seriously in these cases period! where was there unbiased third party here? oh, in the non existent supervised visits, huh?

        • Ambulance Chaser

          So you came to your conclusions, how? Based on your careful examination of the evidence? Your thorough consideration of directly observed testimony? Were you there?

          The judge was, and he DID examine the evidence and hear the testimony. And he came to the opposite conclusion. I wonder why.

          • IzTheBiz

            Because the the judge was probably a pedophile! If you don’t realise how sick western society is, you need your head examined! Pedophiles and homosexuals rule the day, as they did in Sodom!

          • Ambulance Chaser

            And your evidence for that horrible accusation is what?

          • John O

            apparently u are not aware of Patrick Henry. special interest groups nullified the constitution. in 1988 I took my last class at a liberal university. the professor stated I and people like me are not represented. straight white male.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Special interest groups made that judge a pedophile?

          • John O

            special interest groups eliminated equal rights. head of the Rutherford institute talked to 450 lawyers and none were sure on the bill of rights. u probably know that. case law instead of constitutional law.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            What in the world are you talking about?

          • John O

            apparently u are involved in sharia law. constitutional or natural law would not be confusing.

          • Josey

            Any good judge who is out to protect little one’s could have at least ordered supervised visits for a time while it was being investigated, most judges would have done so not to punish the parent being supervised but always to take the child’s word over anyone else’s as a precaution in protecting the child first and foremost. If you can’t see that it’s because you choose not to! so, you came to your conclusions the same as the prosecution which made this statement, “This case is about religious intolerance of same-sex relationships,” prosecutorial filings state, according to the Associated Press. He “helped [Miller] break the law by taking Isabella outside the country in the name of those strong religious views.” This has nothing to do with protecting a child.
            And nvm that this parent allowed visitations for awhile in the beginning until she was given reason to believe her child was in danger.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I should hope I know the law. I’ve been practicing for over eight years.

            Anyway, are you going to answer my question or not?

      • John Rykken

        So why would you take the part of the court first, rather than the real mother of the child? And why do you say the other woman is a parent? Who is the birth Mother? She is the only parent. The other has no biological claim to the child. She contributed nothing biologically to the conception and birth of the child. Can you say “normal human conception”? Is this too difficult to understand? Or do you prefer to pervert word definitions?

    • arcinva

      Please stop saying “Mennonite”. The pastor in this case is Amish Mennonite. There is a difference.

  • Ambulance Chaser

    Although this story doesn’t mention it, the court’s found Miller’s allegations that Isabella was being abused unfounded. In short, Miller was not only lying, but lying slanderously.

  • Liberal Elitist

    No such thing as an “ex-lesbian.”

    • Amos Moses

      ‘Tater Tots’ Now A Gender
      September 13, 2016

      PALO ALTO, CA—After reviewing a local teenage girl’s Tumblr blog, the American Psychological Association confirmed Tuesday morning that “tater tots” is now a distinct and definable gender, and should be afforded the same protections that the other 43,492 genders currently enjoy.

      The findings came as doctors on the board of the APA were alerted to local Tumblr user Katniss Sprinkle, who had made the announcement just one week prior that she no longer identified as a human girl but rather felt her gender most closely aligned with that of the fried, grated potato dish popular at school cafeterias.

      • Amos Moses

        “I just don’t feel comfortable calling my biologically female self a female any longer,” the brave young tater tot said in an interview over Snapchat as she applied a goofy filter to make herself look like a bumble bee. “My emotions are the best judge of my reality, and they’re telling me I’m a dish of fried potatoes—so lay off me, binary cishets.”

        “And go kill yourselves too, while you’re at it,” Sprinkle finished before her mom called her downstairs to finish her pre-algebra homework.

        At publishing time, the APA was again adjusting its list of genders, as Sprinkle had reportedly announced her new gender identification as a washing machine.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Yes, it would be terrible if people were ignoring scientific realities based on their feelings.

          So you should have no problem showing me the scientific basis for your belief that gay people can become straight. After all, that’s not just your “feelings.”

          • Amos Moses

            ” scientific basis for your belief that gay people ”

            Cant …. because it has nothing to do with science …… has to do with sin ……….. and it is condition of the heart ….. but many want “science” to validate their “feelings” ……. and as i think you are trying to point out … and correctly so …… “feelings” are not science ……….. but homosexuals and trannys do pretend that it is “science” ….. and “science” is not the same as science …….

          • ComeOnPeople!

            I know former gays and lesbians. Just as they made a choice to become sexually active with those of their same gender , they made another chose to stop doing so. SEX is a choice . Group sex, threesomes, animal sex, object sex, the list is endless. Two men can indeed love one other and there is nothing wrong with it… the wrong is when they do what is unnatural and have sexual relations with one another. It’s not against nature or GOD’s instructions to love those of your same gender… it’s only wrong when that love between same genders turns to lust and a choice to go against and pervert nature law and the righteous instructions of their CREATOR.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            “I know people who self-reported it” is not a scientific proof. Show me an article published in a respected scientific journal and then we’ll talk.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Show me evidence that the LGBT lifestyle is not a choice. It has been proven over and over that it is a choice via science and the born gay lie has been debunked over and over via science. Therefore if one chooses to have sex with their same gender… one can choose to stop and start having sex with the opposite gender. No one forces me to be straight and no one forced someone to be gay. Life is all about choices. We all choose who we love, who we keep as friends and who we have intimate relationships with. We are not puppets or objects who have no reasoning or control over our actions. We are intelligent beings who can think, reason and make choices based upon what we have reasoned out in our minds. Therefore when the thought entered my mind to participate in the unnatural act of same sex relationships, (which it did) My thoughts also said no it’s not natural . Then a war took place within my thoughts as reasoning kicked in to make a choice . Today I still have the ability to choose , the option to be gay is still on the table. To say that those who chose to be gay or lesbian and then chose to stop participating in same sex relationships is a lie is to take away those peoples ability to chose, reason and make choses based upon that reasoning. You lower humans to mere puppets or objects.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            The one problem with all that is, yes someone can choose who the have sex with, but there is something called sexual orientation.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Oh please do define this…

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Define sexual orientation? Pretty simple, I thought. What kind of person (male, female, both) one prefers to have sex and/or romantic relationships with. Whether that is something one is born with, or develops along the way, I’m not sure, but I don’t think it’s a choice either way.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            You just defined this as …. “What kind of person (male, female, both) one PREFERS to have sex and/or romantic relationships with.” Then you say but I don’t think it’s a choice.

            hmmm okay now please define Prefers for my.

            A double minded person is unstable in all their ways.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            “Show me evidence that the LGBT lifestyle is not a choice.”

            I can’t prove a negative. That’s a logical impossibility. I can, however, show you plenty of studies showing that people have an attraction to one sex or the other and nothing they do can change that.

            “It has been proven over and over that it is a choice via science and the born gay lie has been debunked over and over via science.”

            Great. Let’s see some.

            “Therefore when the thought entered my mind to participate in the unnatural act of same sex relationships, (which it did) My thoughts also said no it’s not natural . Then a war took place within my thoughts as reasoning kicked in to make a choice . Today I still have the ability to choose , the option to be gay is still on the table.”

            Sounds like you’re just as gay as you always were, but you’re suppressing it. On the other hand, I have no desire whatsoever to be with a man. I’m 100% straight and always have been. Even if, for whatever reason, I were to make out with a guy, I wouldn’t enjoy it. Because I’m not gay. And I can’t change that.

            You’re probably a little bit bi, so you can go either way. And no, you can’t turn it off either.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Ahahahaha that’s like saying if I am attracted to animal sex which also is not natural that I like those animals have no reasoning or cannot choose which impulses I obey . I am slave to my attractions? PLEASE! If I must obey every whim which comes into my brain then I am a mere puppet or animal who only lives by instinct and not a human who uses reasoning and logic. Same sex was offered to me by a bi female when I was a teenager. My thoughts kicked into gear along with reasoning . Why? Because to think about an unnatural act is one thing but to participate in it is something else entirely . Life is all about chooses and the LGBT lifestyles are no exception. I love everyone and everything but reasoning and logic tell me that to have sex with the same sex, animals, relatives, group sex, the mailman , children , etc etc… would go against my human conscience. Like liars after a while those who silence their conscience eventually no longer hear it. They hear it at first but once silenced it becomes easier and easier to no longer hear it until they no longer hear it in that area. They have retrained their brain to believe it is natural or right and just as a junky no longer sees the devastation of his choice , they to no longer see it.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Sorry to keep coming back to this post, but I guess it was just thought-provoking to me. (and going back to put this warning in the early part, whoa, I’m revealing some personal stuff here….lol)

            You said “We all choose who we love”? Sorry, I don’t think so. Just to speak from my own personal experience, I’ve certainly been in love, and it most definitely wasn’t a situation of “oh, here’s this woman, and here’s this other woman, I think I’ll fall in love with woman #2 because of so-and-so” or something like that. To be honest, maybe if I had had complete choice in the matter, I would have chosen to fall in love with someone else. That’s not a knock on her in any way, it’s just saying that I would have chosen something that wasn’t always going to be a long-distance relationship.

            And I agree with what Ambulance Chaser said. You’re bi, at least to some extent. Like what I said earlier, sexual orientation is about who you’re attracted to, and that’s not necessarily the same thing as who you have sex with. If it were, wouldn’t that mean all virgins are asexual? I’ll tell you, I was well into my 20’s before I ever had sex, and I definitely knew I liked girls (aka “was heterosexual”) by then!

            You said “the thought entered my mind” and “the option is still on the table”…..well, maybe that is the case for you, but what if some other people only have one kind of thoughts, and only one option?

          • ComeOnPeople!

            People never have one option in regard to relationships … there are correct options and incorrect options. We all choose who we are with and those choices can be immoral or moral. All options are still on the table but as a person who can reason … I choose what is moral. I will never choose same sex, adultery, rape, child sex, sex with a relative , animal sex , etc etc… WHY? Because my conscience tells me when things are either unnatural or immoral . If a person can participate in such acts then somewhere they silenced their conscience over and over to the point that they no longer hear it.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I disagree that people always have options. I’m a heterosexual man; I wouldn’t consider having a relationship with another man to even be an option.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            You said … “I disagree that people always have options.”

            HERE is the definition of option…

            : an act of choosing … ( Are you able to make choices ?)

            : the power or right to choose : freedom of choice… ( Do you have freedom or does someone force you to be with someone?)

            : something that may be chosen: … ( Again options are things that may or not be chosen … Can you make choices or are you a slave to your emotions and attractions?)

            : an alternative course of action … ( A person who CHOOSES to be in a sexual relationship with the same sex has taken an alternate course from that which is natural … Can you change courses ? Yes but do you choose to no. WHY? I’m assuming because you listen to reasoning and your GOD given conscience.)

            You said … “I’m a heterosexual man; I wouldn’t consider having a relationship with another man to even be an option.”

            Therefore you do not understand what an option is… An option is something that is there regardless of if you ever choose it or not… it is something that may or may not be chosen. In your case that option is not even considered. In my case that option was offered to me as a kid and I used reasoning and logic and said NO thats not for me… is that option still there… of course… it is an alternative course of action from the choice I made 34 years ago… one I have never given a second thought to. You may never consider peanut butter, bologna and cheese sandwiches but the option is there. Someone may offer one to you one day and it would be silly to say this is not an option or that because you have never even considered it that it is not an option. The fact is that it is an option & you can either choose to try it or choose to never do so. Life is all about choices, some are silly small every day choices and others change our life and the lives of others.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Well, okay then, fine. Everything is an option. I have the option to jump out of an airplane while hitting myself repeatedly in the head with a hammer. It’s something I’d never do in a million years, but I guess by your definition, that’s an option available to me. By the same token, I guess I do have the option to have homosexual sex, but again, it’s something I have no interest in doing.

            I suppose the difference between me and you is, I don’t consider “options” between consenting adults to be immoral. I know people like you always seem to miss that distinction, but that’s why homosexuality is OK, and the stuff you mentioned before; bestiality, pedophilia, etcetera, is not.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            He got that from a parody website called Babylon Bee.

      • Jenny Ondioline

        You got that from Babylon Bee which is a parody site, not a real one.

        • Amos Moses

          Yep ….. and its funny …. because its true ……….

          • Jenny Ondioline

            What part of it is true? What fraction?

          • Amos Moses

            That the number of people claiming to be what they clearly are not is rising along with the incidence of mental illness ….. in direct proportion ……..

          • Jenny Ondioline

            I would trust them to answer that question long before I would trust someone suffering from bigotry to do it.

          • Amos Moses

            So you think it is okay for the mentally ill to self-diagnose ……. and how would they know they are even right …. given that they are mentally ill …………. and the claim of bigotry is just ad hominem …………

          • Jenny Ondioline

            They are not “mentally ill”. What a cruel and horrible thing to say.

          • Amos Moses

            No …….. it is the truth …….. and yes …. to those who do not want to hear the truth …. it can sound horrible …. but it is no less the truth …………

          • Jenny Ondioline

            It’s not the truth, we know from science that it’s not the truth.

          • Amos Moses

            No ……… corrupted science is not science ……… it is psuedo-science …….. and it has no basis in reality …………….

          • Jenny Ondioline

            It isn’t pseudo-science. It’s settled science.

          • Amos Moses

            If it is science …… then it is not settled ……

          • Amos Moses

            So if i tell a person with cancer they have cancer ….. is that “a cruel and horrible thing to say” …… and is it “bigotry” ………….

          • Jenny Ondioline

            No, because it’s cancer which is a disease. Human sexuality is not what you’re making it out to be.

          • Amos Moses

            Human sexuality does not include homo-, trans-, or “tater-tot ” sexuality ……….. that is delusion and mental illness …………

          • Jenny Ondioline

            I think you need to read a science book or two.

          • Amos Moses

            i have a 20 year career in medicine …… what you got …..

          • Jenny Ondioline

            A 25 year career in social work.

          • Amos Moses

            So again …. psuedo-science …………… well …. not even science really ………..

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Yes, the career demands degrees in psychology which I possess. What do you have?

          • Amos Moses

            i do not hold any psuedo-science degrees ………. it is pointless as “psychology” as a “science” has no repeatable results that can be obtained ….. so it is not science ….. just psuedo-science ………

          • Jenny Ondioline

            That doesn’t answer my question.

          • Amos Moses

            You are trying to assert some educational authority that is not recognized here ….. this is a christian site and it is christians discussing things from a christian point of view ….. science is part of that ….. but not psuedo-science that cannot be proven ….. and i said …… “i do not hold any psuedo-science degrees” …….

          • Jenny Ondioline

            I never said anything about the mentally ill. We are not talking about the mentally ill. Nor are we talking about self-diagnosis.

          • Amos Moses

            Yes …. we are … because that is all a person who claims they are a tranny does ….. make a claim ….. and it is self-diagnosis and mental illness ……….

          • Jenny Ondioline

            That I’m afraid is your non-scientific opinion speaking.

          • Amos Moses

            and that is yours …..

          • Jenny Ondioline

            No, I speak with years of community health service behind me.

          • Amos Moses

            and that involves how many years of research of psuedo-science ………… not really science as it is not really testable and repeatable to any reliability …….. so again …. not science ….

          • Jenny Ondioline

            You don’t know my field of study. Not something you can comment on.

          • Amos Moses

            For starters, there’s a “replication crisis” in science. This is particularly true in the field of experimental psychology, where far too many prestigious psychology studies simply can’t be reliably replicated. But it’s not just psychology. In 2011, the pharmaceutical company Bayer looked at 67 blockbuster drug discovery research findings published in prestigious journals, and found that three-fourths of them weren’t right. Another study of cancer research found that only 11 percent of preclinical cancer research could be reproduced. Even in physics, supposedly the hardest and most reliable of all sciences, Wilson points out that “two of the most vaunted physics results of the past few years — the announced discovery of both cosmic inflation and gravitational waves at the BICEP2 experiment in Antarctica, and the supposed discovery of superluminal neutrinos at the Swiss-Italian border — have now been retracted, with far less fanfare than when they were first published.”

          • Jenny Ondioline

            My field wasn’t experimental psychology, nice try though.

          • Amos Moses

            but your field RELIES on that …………… so yes …. it is …………

          • Edward MacGuire

            Publishing a paper, getting it accepted, is just the first step. The real test is the number of citations a paper gets. In medicine about 12% are uncited after 5 years; in natural sciences about 25%; in the social sciences about 30%; and in the humanities up to 80%.
            This is not a “replication crisis” in science but a window on how science works. You publish, if anyone is interested and their work is related, they will test your conclusions and if correct cite you in their paper.

            Google ‘scientific uncited papers’ and you will get 67,000 articles on this subject.

            As for the 2 examples you gave, if you had read the abstracts and followed what happened you would know that the authors themselves were ambivalent on their conclusions and published so the rest of the community could see their data. No one believed that neutrinos were faster than photons; that would invalidate all the science since Einstein which requires light speed to be invarient and a property of particles of mass 0.

            I have no idea what you mean by fanfare; scientific journals are not the National Enquirer.

            The 80% in humanities is not surprising because there are many areas in the humanities where there are only a few experts in the entire world.

          • Amos Moses

            “Peer-review” is not a stamp of truth of what was submitted for review …… it means nothing as to truth or accuracy of what was observed and reported ……. especially when a lot of what is “cited” is biased and corrupted from the beginning ………….. if the work cannot be tested and repeated …. no matter how much it is “cited” … it is worthless …………

          • Amos Moses

            Uhhhh ….. yeah …. i sure can …………

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Uhhhh…no…because you don’t know the first thing about me.

          • Amos Moses

            uhhhh …. yes …. i do not have to “know” you ……… your argument tells us all that we need to know …………

    • ComeOnPeople!

      No such thing as an ex-christian. No such thing as choices. No such thing as a change of heart.

  • [email protected]

    I hope Philip Zodhiates is brought to justice over his role in this international kidnapping case. The courts are there to handle these kind of parental disputes and they were in action here but then when Lisa Miller did not get her way she and those helping her decided to continue to violate the law and leave the country. everyone involved in helping Lisa Miller flee the country should be behind bars.

    also I should note that it is irresponsible to list out all of Lisa Miller’s allegations of abuse as if they are true. they are allegations not fact and the courts found them to be un-substantiated.

  • Amos Moses

    Sometimes obeying God and doing what is right, despite what men say, has a price …… check please …………

  • SFBruce

    As this article indicates, Janet Jenkins took her dispute to the courts and prevailed. Philip Zodhiates is charged with helping Lisa Miller leave the country to avoid handing over her daughter to her legal mother, Janet Jenkins, as the courts ruled. This is a serious crime, and if convicted, he’ll have to face the consequences. Isabella is now about 14, and has been deprived of one of her parents all because Lisa Miller thinks she knows better than the courts. No one can restore those lost years to either Isabella or Janet Jenkins. If Lisa Miller now identifies as heterosexual, she has that right, but she doesn’t have to right to come between her daughter and her daughter’s rightful parent, nor does she have the right to defy a court order as a result of her new self-identification.

    • Amos Moses

      “daughter to her legal mother, Janet Jenkins, as the courts ruled.”

      “Miller gave birth to baby Isabella in 2002.”

      No ….. Miller is the BIRTH mother …………. “civil union” or no ……….. and no court has any authority to rule otherwise ……………

      • SFBruce

        Yes, Lisa Miller is the birth mother, but that no guarantee that she’s fit to raise her child, and I’m not sure what you mean when you say the court has no authority here. What do you think the courts are for?

      • Ambulance Chaser

        Who says they don’t? You?

  • Nidalap

    Hmph. One imagines that, had Ms. Jenkins been the ex-lesbian in this story, seeking to maintain a positive Christian influence on this child, the courts and the folks arguing in her favor now would likely suffer whiplash from switching positions so quickly…

  • Robert

    IT sounds like the judge is Jewish and not very happy with christians to begin with. And has a ax to grind. Perhaps the lawyer needs to be familiar with Talmud teachings on homosexuality the worth of children according to he Talmud and try and figure out if this is where the judge gets his hostility from.. this might give a shot at asking for a different judge.

    • The Skeptical Chymist

      So Jews shouldn’t be permitted to serve as judges in cases where Christian privilege is at issue? Perhaps heterosexuals shouldn’t be permitted to serve as judges when gay rights are at issue? And perhaps white judges shouldn’t be permitted to serve in cases where African-American rights are at issue? How far are we going to take this?

      • Amos Moses

        “So Jews shouldn’t be permitted to serve as judges in cases where Christian privilege is at issue?”

        Ahhhh …… nice try … not what he said ………..

        He said ….. “Perhaps the lawyer needs to be familiar with Talmud teachings on homosexuality the worth of children according to (t)he Talmud” ….. not what you said ………..has nothing to do with “christian privilege” ……….. has to do with judicial bias ……..

        • The Skeptical Chymist

          Is there something in the article that suggests that Judge Cohen was biased? The Virginia Supreme Court ruled that the former lesbian partner must have visitation rights, but Miller refused to follow that ruling. Judge Cohen, being in a position that is subordinate to the Virginia Supreme Court, ruled that Miller must allow her former partner joint custody rights. He had no choice but to do so. When Miller would not share custody, he followed through on what was the only remedy. Given the Virginia Supreme Court’s ruling, how could he have done otherwise?

          Is there any evidence in this article that supports Robert’s conjecture that Judge Cohen is biased against Christians? I don’t see it. In his subordinate position to the Virginia Supreme Court, he ruled the only way he could.

          I’m not arguing whether the Virginia Supreme Court was right or wrong. I’m taking issue with Robert’s statement that Judge Cohen is “not happy with Christians to begin with”, and that his religion (Judaism) may have affected his ruling. There’s no evidence that it did, so I would conclude that Robert is the person who has a bias here – he is biased against Jews.

          • Amos Moses

            “Is there something in the article that suggests that Judge Cohen was biased?”

            My comments were about your misstating the comments of another ….. you tried to change the subject … and you are trying to change it again ……….. his comments had nothing to do with your statement of “christian privilege” ……….. not even sure what that is except a made up term ……

          • The Skeptical Chymist

            He suggested that the woman should try to get a different judge, on the grounds that the judge had an ax to grind (i.e., was biased against Christians). But there was no evidence presented in the article that the judge was biased against Christians, and the author of that comment made a point of the fact that the judge is Jewish (presumably simply because his name is Cohen, which does not prove that he is a practicing Jew, BTW. It only proves that he is descended from Jews. He may be a Christian who has converted from Judaism, I wouldn’t know).
            The fact that the author of the comments suggested that the judge was biased against Christians, without any basis for that suggestion, and then attributed it to his Judaism was what I objected to.

            This is similar to Mr. Trump objecting to Judge Curiel under the presumption that he would not be able to get a fair trial, because Judge Curiel is of Mexican descent. Mr. Trump had no evidence of bias on the Judge’s part, he simply asserted that it was there because he didn’t get the ruling he wanted.

            Can everyone who gets a ruling that they disagree with claim that the judge was biased against them? If so, then there will be a lot of people claiming the judge was biased and a lot of frivolous motions in the courts.

          • Amos Moses

            “He suggested that the woman should try to get a different judge, on the grounds that the judge had an ax to grind (i.e., was biased against Christians). ”

            bias is bias ……. but i see nothing in the comments about christians ….. the talmud is a jewish document …. not a christian one …. the mother seems to be a christian and had two other christians helping her ……. but the comments seem to speak more to bias of the judges thoughts than the others ………

  • Robert

    If your able to afford it I would hire a orthodox Jewish lawyer .the best you can find.

  • IzTheBiz

    Homosexuality is a sick disease!

  • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

    Kidnapping: And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

    Strangely the proper definition of kidnapping has nothing to do with this case: this was not for profit, but for mercy. It seems as if this case is just about avenging an offense against the state’s evil imposition of sexual immorality on this girl, and the thwarting of the state’s evil intent to drag this girl into hell.

    Where is the governor’s pardon? Is everyone in the entire state of Virginia just completely sold out to wickedness?

  • Robert

    They made the right choise to leave the country with the child. IN such a situation. They could done away with the person who was a threat to the child.But no they chose the right thing to do. The judge who represents the government is the trouble maker and lawbreaker .Just as surly as king Harod was during his day.

  • ShemSilber

    May our Master Yahushua (Lord Jesus) keep His angels about this child and her mother and confound those who would drag that helpless child back into the other lizzy’s custody, and reward those who assisted those two out of the country.

    Blessed is the woman who chose to be among those of whom the Apostle Paul said, per 1Corinthians 6:9-11: “…and such WERE some of you, but you were WASHED…” Washed, that is, in the atoning blood of the Messiah Yahushua (Jesus), who gave His life to pay for our sins and who rose again to assure us of everlasting life, omein!