Hillsong United Band Leader Calls Jen Hatmaker’s Remarks on Homosexuality ‘Refreshing’

Photo Credit: JenHatmaker.com
Photo Credit: JenHatmaker.com

Joel Houston, the leader of the popular worship ban Hillsong United, is raising concern after he recently remarked that he found an interview with HGTV celebrity and author Jen Hatmaker—who revealed that she believes homosexuals should be supported in and by the church—to be “refreshing.”

Hatmaker had been interviewed by Jonathan Merritt of Religion News Service (RNS) on a variety of subjects, including the election, homosexuality and abortion.

“From a civil rights and civil liberties side and from just a human being side, any two adults have the right to choose who they want to love. And they should be afforded the same legal protections as any of us,” she said when asked by Merritt if she supports same-sex “marriage.” “I would never wish anything less for my gay friends.”

She said that churches should offer marriage and parenting help and support for those in homosexual relationships.

“From a spiritual perspective, since gay marriage is legal in all 50 states, our communities have plenty of gay couples who, just like the rest of us, need marriage support and parenting help and Christian community,” Hatmaker continued. “They are either going to find those resources in the church or they are not.”

“Not only are these our neighbors and friends, but they are brothers and sisters in Christ,” she asserted. “They are adopted into the same family as the rest of us, and the church hasn’t treated the LGBT community like family. We have to do better.”

Hatmaker also answered in the affirmative when asked if she would attend a “wedding” of the same sex, and that she would support her children if one of them came out as homosexual.

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Days later, her husband Brandon also wrote on the matter following the release of the RNS interview, affirming his wife’s words.

“Jen and I are 100% on the same page regarding her recent interview about our love and hope for the LGBTQ community. This is a journey we have been on together,” he wrote. “We both believe a same-sex marriage, as a life-long monogamous commitment, can be holy before God.”

“Bottom line, we don’t believe a committed life-long monogamous same-sex marriage violates anything seen in scripture about God’s hopes for the marriage relationship,” Brandon Hatmaker later stated in his lengthy explanation.

As Merritt shared his interview with Jen Hatmaker on social media, Joel Houston, leader of the popular worship band Hillsong United wrote on his Twitter page, “Wow … So refreshing.”

In response to Houston, follower Joshua Sardella remarked with worriment, “Some of it maybe, but putting a blanket ‘refreshing’ on this article doesn’t seem wise for someone with your influence.”

“You’re probably right,” Houston responded. “But what I found refreshing was her honesty—particularly enacting a gospel of love over hate/fear.”

Houston has since deleted his remarks.

His words, however, drew concern from some, including Jeff Maples of Pulpit & Pen, who wrote, “I would encourage any who listen to Hillsong music to stop. These men purport to be Christians yet habitually pervert His grace for profit. If your church plays their music, complain. You have the right to do so. Your tithes and offerings are lining the pockets of men like this.”

“I don’t doubt the convictions of the leaders at Hillsong, but I think Christians who cannot stand fully for orthodoxy for risk of losing an audience ultimately do more harm than good,” also opined Erick Erickson of The Resurgent. “I wouldn’t change the radio if a Hillsong song came on and won’t go purging my iPod of their songs. But I also don’t want to promote their music to my listeners either.”


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  • Amos Moses

    “We are on the express elevator to hell ……….. Going Down …..” –

    youtube;com/watch?v=bHzov33tgfg – Replace the ; with a .

  • Amos Moses

    Pastor Forced To Undergo Seeker Sensitivity Training After Mentioning Sin, Hell

  • dvd

    Apparently someone has their heart in the ways of the world rather than in Scripture.

    • Melissa Simpson

      Agreed! Following Jesus isn’t always popular but always right!

  • Psychdude1

    I guess if we ignore the biblical teaching on the subject then love is love. I guess denying the inconvenient parts of the New Testament may seem “refreshing” to those who have also done so. As for me, I will stick with the Scriptures.The same Scriptures that speak of love also speak of the necessity of repentance from sin and the merits of knowing people by the fruit in their lives.

  • Samuel F Waddell

    True Christians must love CHRIST and the truth of God’s Word before we can truly show love, truth and salvation to others. Homosexuality is a sin and called an abomination in Leviticus 18, it is called sin in Romans chapter one as well and other Scripture, like 1 Corinthians 6 and the book of Jude. And of course God never changes so we can never sacrifice truth to get people into our churches. If God is not using us to bring people to repentance and true conversion and to then become Disciples, who are learning to obey God’s Word, the rest of their lives, then we are merely a dead religion.

  • Beti RyanMercer

    Do they have a passing acquaintance with GOD’s word on that subject? HE denounces that as an ABOMINATION. GOD doesn’t change HIS mind and HE doesn’t quibble ~ HE means what HE says and says what HE means!!

    • Oneironaut

      Your god also says that eating shellfish is an abomination. Are you protesting Red Lobster for promoting sin?

      Your god says that it’s an abomination to wear more than one kind of fabric in your clothes. Are you boycotting stores that sell cotton/polyester blends?

      Or are you just focusing on the “abominations” that fit your worldview?

      • Amos Moses

        see ….. the NT says that is not a sin ….. it was a ceremonial law for that time …… but homosexuality is still an abomination …… and it is you who are cherry picking to fit your worldview … not us …………..

        • Oneironaut

          So when it comes to something you don’t mind, it was just a ceremonial law, but when it comes to something you don’t like, it’s still an abomination. Says who? Last I checked, sin was sin to your god.

          If one thing is still an abomination and not another, then you have to admit that your god’s morality is not absolute or eternal. Clearly, he can change his mind about what’s good and what’s bad at any time.

          • JohnandJeanette McDonald

            The commandments against homosexuality do not belong to the ceremonial or civil stipulations (national Israel) of an obsolete covenant from a bygone era. Yes, a prohibition of homosexuality is given in Leviticus 18:22. But that prohibition is repeated in the New Testament—God’s revelation for those living under the New Covenant – Romans 1:26–27; 1 Corinthians 6:9–10; 1 Timothy 1:9–10.

            Whereas the New Testament declares the fulfillment (and thus the end) of certain civil and ceremonial laws of the Mosaic Covenant, these New Covenant Scriptures only reaffirm the Old Testament prohibition against homosexuality. This shows us that such a prohibition wasn’t applicable only to national Israel, but is also binding upon the New Testament people of God. And the reason for that is because the prohibition against homosexuality wasn’t designed to teach a temporary lesson, like the food laws and civil regulations were; rather, homosexuality in all ages tragically distorts the picture of the Gospel that marriage is designed to be. According to God’s own Word to His people, you cannot be in a right relationship with God through Jesus Christ while living an unrepentant homosexual lifestyle.

          • Oneironaut

            Funny, I didn’t know abominations could be “temporary”. Christians are always telling us that sin is sin, period.

            Sounds to me like a roundabout way of saying that your god can change his mind about any behavior at any time. If he changed his mind about homosexuality, would you accept his word on it?

          • JohnandJeanette McDonald

            Are you even reading your own posts. If the Covenant under which the prohibition is issued goes away, so does the prohibition. God will not change His mind to permit those things that violate His nature, and as God does not change, so His prohibitions against homosexuality will not change. In the same vain, He prohibits beastiality and pedophilia, which, in following your own logic, you’d be perfectly okay with people having sex with animals and children. You may be moral, but intellectual honesty would compel you to say you have no basis for being so, and thus, anything goes.

          • Oneironaut

            But he has changed his mind about many things already. I’ll prove it to you.

            Eating shellfish was once an abomination. Now it isn’t. Therefore, god’s morality changes. It doesn’t matter what his reasons were.

          • JohnandJeanette McDonald

            The basis of my abhorance of homosexuality is the Bible and it’ the same for beastiality and pedophilia. I’m totally consistent. For you, there is no God, and therefore, there is no basis for claiming anything is right or wrong, which is ironic considering the position you’ve taken in these posts.

          • Oneironaut

            Luckily, more and more Americans are realizing there is nothing wrong with their gay friends, neighbors and relatives. Most humans are morally superior to your god.

          • michael louwe

            Pls refer to ACTS.15:24-29 where God has exempted Gentile Christians from any law of Moses which is a burden, eg kosher foods(no lobsters), non-mixed fabric clothing n circumcision, n not exempted from any law of Moses which is not a burden, eg sexual immorality(eg homosexuality n adultery), the Ten Commandments at EXO.20, DEUT.18:9-14, etc.
            ……. Why.?

          • Oneironaut

            I don’t really care about the why. You’re deflecting from my point, which is that your god obviously changes his mind. The “why” may make a difference to you, but that isn’t really the point. People justify and explain but the bottom line is that god once said it was abomination to eat shellfish, and now he says it isn’t. Therefore, your god’s morality is not eternal or absolute.

          • Joe Inman

            Keep trolling Naut. But the point of a good troll is to be at least semi informed. Using the shellfish argument is so lame and elementary it’s laughable. Before you reply, read about Old Testament justification/atonement vs. New Testament. Don’t ask the fool who taught you to use the shellfish argument for I fear you will be taken even less seriously. As a previous reply pointed out, a point that you ignored, you have no moral foundation from which to say whether something is moral or not.

          • Corey Beckles

            Homosexuality is an issue of righteousness. Such unrighteous behaviour was practiced in Sodom and Gomorrah which God destroyed. The Apostle Peter said “But God also rescued Lot out of Sodom because he was a RIGHTEOUS man who was sick of the shameful immorality of the wicked people around him” (2 Peter 2:7 NLT). Homosexuality was practiced in the Canaanite nations and God wanted His people Israel to not practice those unrighteous acts. Therefore, He addressed it and prohibited it in Leviticus.
            Jesus said that the things that go through the mouth (food and drink) DO NOT DEFILE a human being but the things that COME OUT defile a human being. Jesus said:
            For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander. (Matthew 15:19 NLT)

            Shellfish is a food. Therefore, following or not following the dietary laws God gave to Israel will not keep us out of the Kingdom of God. The Apostle Paul said:

            For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness (righteousness) and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. (Romans 14:17 NLT)

            The Kingdom of God is a Kingdom of Righteousness.Those evil things which come out of the heart certainly will defile human beings and prevent them from entering the Kingdom of God. The Apostle Paul said:

            Don’t you realize that those who do wrong (unrighteousness) will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, (1 Cor.6:9 NLT)

            Homosexual behaviour is an evil (unrighteous) behaviour that comes out of the heart and it defiles all those human beings that practice it. As much as we called to love our neighbour as ourselves, the issue as to whether God approves of homosexual behaviour is already settled. Those who do such things “will not inherit the Kingdom of God”. That is already settled in Heaven.

          • Oneironaut

            Just a long-winded way of saying that your god arbitrarily changes his mind about what’s moral or not.

            Bottom line, it was once an abomination to do some things that aren’t abominations anymore. Ergo, your god’s morality is not eternal and absolute, no matter how much you try to explain it away or justify it.

          • Corey Beckles

            No it wasn’t. Whatever God called an abomination is still an abomination. What we need to do is read and understand the Bible. We read the Bible and find a scripture and apply it out of context. Show me something in the Bible (the exact scripture references) that God called an abomination that God said is no longer an abomination.

          • Amos Moses

            “So when it comes to something you don’t mind, it was just a ceremonial law”

            No ……. when scripture defines it ….. then it is …. my liking or disliking it has not one thing to do with it ……..

      • Lacey

        You are misunderstanding what was Old Testament law and moral law in The Bible. Please find a bible Christ teaching church and ask these questions. I pray you find the answers the truth.

      • Florenca Mcdowell

        oneironaut. atheist always sight that line because they are IGNORANT OF WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. The OLD TESTMENT IS BASED ON GOD’S INTERACTIONS WITH THE JEWISH PEOPLE, AND THEIR MANYLAWS ON FOOD AND OTHER HABITS. YOUR posts show that you are an Atheist who does not understand the Bible
        as HRC would say you are a Deplorable

  • Reason2012

    Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

    Homosexual behavior is most literally pointed out as a sin, and God has not changed on that regard. But if a person has those inclinations but does not act upon them, does not dwell in lust upon others, but is instead struggling against them to avoid them, then it’s not a sin. It’s just like sinful inclinations of any kind: it’s acting upon it when it becomes a sin.

    And this is what God says about sin and specifically the behavior of homosexuality:

    Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

    Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

    Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

    The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

    Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

    God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

    Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

    Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

    Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

    Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

    And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

    And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

    And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

    These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

    Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination …”

    Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

    Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

    Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

    1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

    1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

    2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

    And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

    Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

    Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

    And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

    Live forever, people – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world.

    May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

  • Lumina

    Yup. Refreshing.

    • Amos Moses

      Like a giant Big Gulp of Coca-Cola …….. with a nasty bug floating on top ………….

      • Lumina

        I think many Christians are being hypocritical by protesting the law that allows gay marriage, but on the other hand, being perfectly okay with no-fault divorce laws.

        • Amos Moses

          agreed …….. but there are good biblical reasons for divorce ….. and it should not be taken lightly ……… and true christian marriages end in divorce far, far less than the pagan world ……….. and there are no biblical reasons for “SSM” …………

          • Lumina

            Then at least remarriage should be illegal.

            1 Corinthians 7:10-12 (ESV)
            10 To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband 11 (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.

          • Amos Moses

            it is really sad when you stop reading JUST BEFORE the same scripture that REFUTES what you are trying to assert ………

            7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
            7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
            7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
            7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
            7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
            7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

          • Lumina

            Paul says: I, not the Lord

            You follow Paul more than you follow Jesus?

          • Amos Moses

            ALL SCRIPTURE is given under unction of the HOLY SPIRIT ……………..

          • Lumina

            Then, so is 1 Corinthians 7:10-11.

          • Amos Moses

            2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

            yes but the SURROUNDING scriptures give it clarity ……. and you are wrong to ignore it as it is not in CONTEXT …………..

          • Lumina

            Are you saying 2Tim 3:16 doesn’t apply to 1 Corinthians 7:10-11?

          • Amos Moses

            can you read what i just wrote ……… it does IN CONTEXT …. and when you do not use it in CONTEXT ….. you strip it of its meaning ….. 1 Cor 7:10-11 is in the CONTEXT of 1 Cor 7:1-17 ….. do you read the first line of Moby Dick …. “Call me Ishmael” … and then conclude the rest of the book is about Muslims ………… no …. because it is OUT OF CONTEXT …………..

          • Lumina

            I think Catholics would disagree with your interpretation.

          • Amos Moses

            they can disagree with scripture all they want ………….. they do anyway ………

          • Lumina

            But the Catholics are the ones who decided which books should be in the Canon and you trust them on that though, right?

          • Amos Moses

            Nope ………… wrong again ……….. the HOLY SPIRIT decided that and it was decided WHEN each book was written and AS it was written ….. all the RCC or any church can do is RECOGNIZE it as canon ……….

          • Lumina

            That’s a myth.

          • Amos Moses

            is that a scientific, theological or personal opinion ………..

          • Lumina

            Then show me any Catholic clergy backing up your claim.

          • Amos Moses

            what the RCC says to that is not my problem … it is theirs ……… and that does not answer the question ………

          • Lumina

            They are the ones that canonized the Bible. Why can you claim what they don’t claim when protestants are not the ones that canonized it?

          • Amos Moses

            “They are the ones that canonized the Bible”

            Nope … as i just explained ………… look …. if a write a book …. that becomes the canon of A.Moses ….. it is when as i write it and it is when i finish it …. it matters not if anyone recognizes it as my canon …. it still is …. and if i write another book …. that becomes part of the canon …. again …… it matters not if anyone recognizes it as my canon …. it is …..

            the RCC has no authority to determine the canon …. only to recognize that it is …. the canon is determined by the author of scripture … not the reader of it ……..

          • Lumina

            You posted the same comment twice. So I’ll post the same reply again.

            Then why the Gospel of Peter or the Gospel of Thomas isn’t in the Canon?

          • Amos Moses

            because they are not inspired ………..
            because they are in conflict with the rest of scripture ……… and not written by the same author ….. they are not recognized …………..
            putting “gospel” in the title does not make it so ……
            numerous gnostic texts are not recognized as scripture …..
            nor is “Little Bo Peep” …….
            and the author of scripture has not revealed it to be scripture …. The Holy Spirit …………

          • Lumina

            And “who” decided that they are not inspired?

          • Amos Moses

            The author decided and …. AS I JUST SAID …. the author of scripture has not revealed it to be scripture …. The HOLY SPIRIT….

          • Lumina

            Then are you saying the author of the Gospel of Peter or Thomas declared their writings were not inspired after they wrote their books?

          • Amos Moses

            No …. the Holy Spirit has not said they are inspired ……….. and that therefore He is not the author ……….

          • Lumina

            When and where did it say that? And who said that it did? Your pastor?

          • Amos Moses

            Scripture….

          • Lumina

            Where? Show me “where” in each book. Because they were written by different authors in different times.

          • Amos Moses

            “Where? Show me “where” in each book.”

            each book does not have to contain it …. that is your standard … not Gods ……… why do i have to keep explaining it to you ……… again ……..

            3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
            3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

            it is God given …. the actual word in the Greek is:
            G2315
            θεόπνευστος
            theopneustos
            theh-op’-nyoo-stos
            divinely breathed in: – given by inspiration of God.

            so those books that are part of the canon were revealed by God ….. if it was not revealed ….. then it is not scripture …. God made it the canon … the only thing men can do is recognize it through the Holy Spirit …… the Paraclete …. men have not one thing to do with the authorship of scripture …. they were merely scribes ….. they took dictation led by the Holy Spirit …….

          • Lumina

            So you have no proof to back up your claim. I think I’ll go with the Catholic church on this. 😉

          • Amos Moses

            No … you have no proof of YOUR claim that it must be in each book and that is YOUR standard …. Not Gods ……….. go with whomever you choose ….. but the RCC is not going with God … it is going with MEN ….. and they are not reliable …. Peter never did … but you have fun just the same …………….. “Sola Magisterium” is not in scripture …..

          • Lumina

            If it’s not in the books, where is your proof?

          • Amos Moses

            it is in the book …….. as i have explained it to you ………. you reject the proof of Gods word … you reject Gods authority over His word ……….

          • Lumina

            Then show me where, give me the verses.

          • Amos Moses

            Do i really have to cut and paste it again for you ………

            According to the RCC ….
            1. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the extent of scripture, what is and what is not scripture…..

            2. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the Meaning of scripture, what scripture does and does not say …….

            3. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the extent of “Tradition”, what is and what is not “Tradition” …………….

            4. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the Meaning of “Tradition”, what “Tradition” does and does not say …….

            5. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to correct that authority when it is in error …….

          • Lumina

            The Catholics don’t believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.

          • Amos Moses

            and that is the problem ………. because you are saying God is in error …………..

            According to the RCC ….
            1. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the extent of scripture, what is and what is not scripture…..

            2. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the Meaning of scripture, what scripture does and does not say …….

            3. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the extent of “Tradition”, what is and what is not “Tradition” …………….

            4. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the Meaning of “Tradition”, what “Tradition” does and does not say …….

            5. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to correct that authority when it is in error …….

          • Lumina

            Martin Luther didn’t either. Luther wanted to throw Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation out of the Canon, so there was no real debate about Biblical inerrancy.

          • Amos Moses

            According to the RCC ….
            1. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the extent of scripture, what is and what is not scripture…..
            2. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the Meaning of scripture, what scripture does and does not say …….
            3. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the extent of “Tradition”, what is and what is not “Tradition” …………….
            4. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the Meaning of “Tradition”, what “Tradition” does and does not say …….
            5. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to correct that authority when it is in error …….

          • Lumina

            Then why did Luther rejected certain books?

          • Amos Moses

            that is between Luther and God …..

          • Lumina

            Then according to what you said to me, Luther called God liar too?

          • Amos Moses

            Nope ………. Luther did not recognize it as scripture … not the samething … and as i said ….. the only authority we have is to recognize the canon ….. the canon is Gods … not ours …….

          • Lumina

            If Luther thought the entire Bible was inerrant, he wouldn’t have thought of throwing any books away.

          • Amos Moses

            that is your opinion …….. and it is a red herring …………

          • Lumina

            Then what do you think is the reason Luther rejected some books? Please do explain.

          • Amos Moses

            Gee ….. an unthoughtful person once said …….. “Who said that? Your pastor?” ….. does that apply to you also …… you believe your “pastor” over scripture and the word of God/Christ ….. good luck with that when you meet Him ………..

          • Lumina

            NO. I follow early church leaders teachings.

          • Amos Moses

            According to the RCC ….
            1. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the extent of scripture, what is and what is not scripture…..

            2. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the Meaning of scripture, what scripture does and does not say …….

            3. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the extent of “Tradition”, what is and what is not “Tradition” …………….

            4. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the Meaning of “Tradition”, what “Tradition” does and does not say …….

            5. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to correct that authority when it is in error …….

          • Lumina

            If you are saying you have more knowledge than the Pope, then hats off to you :-p

          • Amos Moses

            i asked some questions …. i made no assertions ….. you are the one claiming certain things …. you are the one claiming another authority outside of Christ ……….

            According to the RCC ….
            1. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the extent of scripture, what is and what is not scripture…..

            2. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the Meaning of scripture, what scripture does and does not say …….

            3. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the extent of “Tradition”, what is and what is not “Tradition” …………….

            4. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the Meaning of “Tradition”, what “Tradition” does and does not say …….

            5. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to correct that authority when it is in error …….

          • Lumina

            You are the one who has built your belief system on your speculation, and can’t give the proof of your claim.

          • Amos Moses

            you are the one calling God “errant” ……. and show me even one of the early church fathers that believed God was “errant” …………..

          • Lumina

            No, not God. But the Bible that had the human agency involved while being assembled.

          • Amos Moses

            “But the Bible that had the human agency involved while being assembled.”

            So either you are saying that God is not powerful enough to overcome that …… or you are saying the early church fathers got it wrong ….. or you are saying that the Holy Spirit does not know what it is doing ….. or you are saying that the Pope being a man is not correct ….. or ……… that Christ was powerful enough to rise from death but cannot overcome men interfering in His work ………. or ………………… just what do you have any belief in as a Catholic that is of any value as “men” are OBVIOUSLY more powerful than God …. and that God is OBVIOUSLY so impotent …….

            Either God is omnipotent, sovereign, and omnipresent, etc. ……….. OR …. as Paul said ….
            we worship invain …………………………WHICH IS IT ……………

            According to the RCC ….
            1. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the extent of scripture, what is and what is not scripture…..
            2. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the Meaning of scripture, what scripture does and does not say …….
            3. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the extent of “Tradition”, what is and what is not “Tradition” …………….
            4. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to define the Meaning of “Tradition”, what “Tradition” does and does not say …….
            5. Who has the FINAL and infallible authority to correct that authority when it is in error …….

          • Amos Moses

            You are in effect calling GOD A LIAR when He said HE WOULD PROTECT HIS WORD ……………………. until the END OF TIME ……………

          • Lumina

            NO, I’m NOT. I believe that Sacred Scripture is a vehicle of divine revelation, a work of human hands under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. We do believe the Holy Spirit ensures that those transcendent truths and realities necessary for salvation are transmitted in the text … but the material details are the wrapping of the text and might well contain errors because the human agency involved is not infallible.

          • Amos Moses

            So God cannot protect His word …………. that is what you are saying ………….. men are more powerful than God/Christ ………… you cannot believe that and not be calling God a liar ………………..

            The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Psalms 12:6-7)

            Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
            (Deuteronomy 4:1-2)

            Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Proverbs 30:5-6)

            Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. (Jesus Christ, Son of God) (Mark 13:31)

          • Lumina

            God doesn’t micromanage. He lets us make mistakes and errors and lets us learn from it.

          • Amos Moses

            God knows the spin of the molecule on the tip of the nail on your left hand pinkie finger and keeps it there through His Divine Sovereignty ……… a sparrow does not fall without His Divine intervention ….. He is OMNIPOTENT and OMNIPRESENT …… nothing happens without His expressed will ……………

          • Lumina

            God is infallible and omnipotent, but none of us is. And the infallible humans wrote the Bible and assembled it, so it can contain errors.

          • Amos Moses

            Nope ……… God wrote it using men as scribes ……. there is no error of any significance to doctrine of salvation and repentance for the forgiveness of sin …… and to say otherwise is to call God a liar …………. and it is all about Christ and the plan of salvation through grace …..

          • Lumina

            Any significance? Then should we kill disbelievers as it says in the OT?

          • Amos Moses

            sorry …….. you want to attack scripture that the NT says is God …. God is His word and His word is God ….. so you not only attack Gods word …. you attack God and call Him a liar …..

            1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
            1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
            1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
            1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
            1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

            it is perfect for the purpose for which it was created by God ….. there is no mistake or error and God has kept His word protected through time ……….. unless you want to call Him a liar on that also …………..

            The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Psalms 12:6-7)

            Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
            (Deuteronomy 4:1-2)

            Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Proverbs 30:5-6)

            Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. (Jesus Christ, Son of God) (Mark 13:31)

          • Lumina

            Many Christians, knowingly or unknowingly, worship the Bible. It has unknowingly become their idol, and the idea that the Bible might have a tiny error in it is as blasphemous to them as saying that God makes mistakes.

            God does not make mistakes. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. God is not confined to or limited by our finite understanding of who God is. Nor is God confined to any writings, no matter how great and how inspired.

            Language is humanity’s means of communication. God is not confined to written or spoken human language. Humans, on the other hand, even when given a spiritual truth or revelation, can only process it through our own finite mental and spiritual understanding. Thus our attempts to explain will never be equal to God’s perfection. God inspired the writers of the Bible, but author it, God did not.

          • Amos Moses

            there is no worship of the bible …. that is just garbage ….. the book contains Gods word ….. which is God ….. God cannot be an idol unto himself …… again …….

            1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
            1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
            1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
            1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
            1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

            and you are calling God a liar …………… if the bible is not Gods word …. then you just worship men and that IS idolatry ………….

          • Lumina

            Obviously that’s your personal opinion, not backed by scholarly study.

          • Amos Moses

            back at cha sport …………. i gave you scripture …. you gave less than diddly …… you gave less than squat …. you even gave less than diddly squat …..

          • Lumina

            The Bible has a history of being tampered with by scribes.

            The early manuscripts that omit the verse are not as conclusive as it might seem. Joël Delobel has shown that the text’s appearance in Tatian’s Diatessaron (late 2nd century) predates the earliest Greek witness P75 (3rd century) that omits it (Joël Delobel, “Luke 23:34a: A Perpetual Text-Critical Crux?,” in Sayings of Jesus: Canonical and Non-Canonical: Essays in Honour of Tjitze Baarda, Supplements to Novum Testamentum [Leiden: Brill, 1997], 28-29.). Even though the evidence from the Diatessaron is indirect (all that survives is a commentary on this book), we should not dismiss this important, early testimony that the saying is from Luke.

            The supposition that later scribes would not have omitted these words is also suspect. Bart Ehrman argues that in fact some scribes might very well have been motivated by an anti-semitic bias to drop the reading (Bart D. Ehrman, “The Text of the Gospels at the End of the Second Century,” in Codex Bezae: Studies from the Lunel Colloquium, June 1994, New Testament Tools and Studies [Leiden; New York: Brill, 1996], 111-13). But this idea is not new with Ehrman. Without calling it anti-semitism, Leon Morris argued in his 1974 commentary on Luke that “Early copyists may have been tempted to omit the words by the reflection that perhaps God had not forgiven the guilty [Jewish] nation” (p. 356).

          • Lumina

            If you believe the Bible is inerrant, what are your answers to these (a few among many) discrepancies?

            1. A discrepancy on the day Jesus was arrested. Matthew, Mark and Luke say it was ‘after’ the Passover meal, and John says it was ‘before’…

            2. Do you know there are different accounts of who bought the field of blood (where Judas died)?”

          • Amos Moses

            inerrent does not mean that the accounts are synchronous … in fact if they were all the exact same story that would lend credence to it all being a lie ….. only liars tell the exact same story …… and now you are in the position of ATTACKING the word of God and calling Him a liar AGAIN ……………

          • Kyler Phoenix

            That would be inerrant, genius.

          • Amos Moses

            nope …….. it is perfect and inerrant for the purpose it was created to fulfill ………

          • Lumina

            If God dictated the Bible, why didn’t He make sure not to have any discrepancies?

          • Amos Moses

            again …….. only liars tell the exact same story ……. that is not an error ….. that is credibility ………

          • Lumina

            I thought you were saying God dictated/wrote the Bible.

          • Amos Moses

            The King does not write His decrees ….. that is what He has scribes to do ……. BUT …. God has written …. actually written … a few times in scripture …. and He is very much into having His word written ….. and we have no authority to alter it ….. in fact scripture says 5 different times that we do so at OUR peril ………….

            Deuteronomy 4:2, Deuteronomy 12:32, Proverbs 30:6, Galatians 1:8-9, Revelation 22 18-21

          • Lumina

            God couldn’t make sure scribes won’t make any mistakes?

          • Amos Moses

            there are no mistakes ………..

          • Lumina

            Where in 1 Cor 7:1-17 does it say divorcees can remarry?

          • Amos Moses

            ummmm …… DUH ……….

            7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

            Coincidentally, just BEFORE the part you take out of CONTEXT ………………

          • Lumina

            8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

            I believe this “unmarried” means “never married” from the CONTEXT. Why would Paul contradict what Jesus said right before he introduces Jesus’ commandment?

            10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

            Look at the Contemporary English Version.

            8 Here is my advice for people who have never been married and for widows. You should stay single, just as I am.

          • Amos Moses

            “I believe this “unmarried” means “never married” examining the CONTEXT. ”

            if that is what you believe, that is between you and God ….. it is better to be married, it is better to remain married, even if the person is an unbeliever, and it is the duty of the believing spouse to be an example to the unbeliever …… BUT, if the unbeliever leaves we are to let them leave, they are not slaves ….. and if that happens ….. IT IS STILL BETTER TO BE MARRIED ………… you are still trying to use a proof text to make a point and not consider the whole text ….. BTW …. Divorce …. is a FORGIVABLE sin …… if we seek repentance …….

          • Lumina

            Are you saying the Contemporary English Version is wrong?

            But if you’re truly repentant, you would follow what Jesus commanded and not remarry.

          • Amos Moses

            and He commanded it is BETTER to be married …. in a covenant relationship …. and that sin is forgivable if repentance is sought , repentance being that you know you have offended Him and seek to be inline with His will ……

          • Lumina

            That’s what Paul said (and I don’t believe he included divorcees), not Jesus.

          • Amos Moses

            again ……..
            2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
            3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

            what the RCC says to that is not my problem … it is theirs ………

          • Lumina

            It is worth noting that our current Biblical canon was not established until the fourth century, and that when the New Testament writers wrote of Scripture, they were referring to certain Old Testament scrolls, and probably some other writings that our canon has not preserved. That is to say that Paul, for example, did not refer to his writings as Scripture.

          • Amos Moses

            again ……..

            Nope … as i just explained ………… look …. if a write a book …. that becomes the canon of A.Moses ….. it is when as i write it and it is when i finish it …. it matters not if anyone recognizes it as my canon …. it still is …. and if i write another book …. that becomes part of the canon …. again …… it matters not if anyone recognizes it as my canon …. it is …..

            the RCC has no authority to determine the canon …. only to recognize that it is …. the canon is determined by the author of scripture … not the reader of it ……..

          • Lumina

            They why the Gospel of Peter or the Gospel of Thomas isn’t in Scripture?

        • Curtis Smith

          I’ve never met anyone, Christian or not, who’s “perfectly okay” with divorce. Especially not to the point of marching to the steps of the Supreme Court, threatening, fining and closing down businesses, cussing and threatening people on social media, etc.

    • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

      As refreshing as the decomposing smell of rotting flesh coming out of a tomb….

      • Lumina

        Then do you think we should outlaw divorce and remarriage too?

        • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

          These are people who are supposed to be Christians – publicly promoting sin… And then labelling the support of sin as, “Refreshing”.

          Luke 17:1-2 And [Jesus] said to His disciples, Temptations (snares, traps set to entice to sin) are sure to come, but woe to him by or through whom they come! It would be more profitable for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were hurled into the sea than that he should cause to sin or be a snare to one of these little ones [lowly in rank or influence].”

          • Lumina

            You didn’t answer my question.

          • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I chose not to get side-tracked. The issue discussed in the article was Homosexual Conduct, and a couple of “Christian” leaders support for it.

          • Lumina

            Yeah, avoid the questions you can’t answer … very clever.

          • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Do you support Jen Hatmaker assertion that “believes LGBT relationships can be holy”, or do believe the Bible verses which condemn homosexuality (Lev 18:22, Lev 20:13, Dt 23:17, Rom 1, 1 Cor 6:9-11, 1 Tim 1:9-10, Mark 10:6-9, Rev 21:8)?

          • Lumina

            Please answer my question, I asked you first.

          • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            My opinion matters little – Let us see what God has said on the matter for those who follow Him:

            “When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife. Deuteronomy 24:1-2

            So God allowed for divorce under the law.

            Why did God allow divorce among His Followers

            Mark 10 says because of the Hardness of their hearts he allowed divorce. Divorce/remarriage, however, was not God’s plan

            NOW – Please answer my question about Jen Hatmaker’s assertion that “LGBT relationships can be holy vs. Bible verses condemning homosexual conduct.”

          • Lumina

            But you ignore 1 Corinthians 7:10-11. It was written later and Paul says Jesus said this.

            10 To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband 11 (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.

          • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Fine – Now answer MY Question.

          • Lumina

            Fine, what? You admit that you’re being hypocritical?

          • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Not at all. I am talking about how BELIEVERS ought to behave.

            NOW – Please answer my question about Jen Hatmaker’s assertion that “LGBT relationships can be holy vs. Bible verses condemning homosexual conduct.”

          • Lumina

            So, is it your belief that whenever the Bible says “should”, it can be ignored?

          • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            So – you really are just a troll, trying to sidetrack the discussion.

          • Lumina

            I’m calling out hypocritical Christians who should look the plank in your own eye first. That doesn’t make me a troll. I just posted my opinion, isn’t that what Disquis is for? I didn’t troll anyone. YOU replied to my post, so I replied back. Why is that trolling?

            BTW, other versions of the Bible says “must”

            New International Version
            But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

            Berean Study Bible
            But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

            New American Standard Bible
            (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife.

          • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I have done you the courtesy of answering your question (with explanations) on a subject OUTSIDE of the actual article.

            Now, would you do me the courtesy of answering my question which actually relates TO the article:

            Do you support Jen Hatmaker assertion that “believes LGBT relationships can be holy”, or do believe the Bible verses which condemn homosexuality (Lev 18:22, Lev 20:13, Dt 23:17, Rom 1, 1 Cor 6:9-11, 1 Tim 1:9-10, Mark 10:6-9, Rev 21:8)?

          • Lumina

            It’s NOT OUTSIDE of the subject to ask why some Christians only cherry-pick the issue of gay marriage and criticize those who support it, but turn a blind eye to other sins described in the Bible.

          • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Again, you prefer not to actually answer my question.

          • Lumina

            So do you.

          • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            …Do you support Jen Hatmaker assertion that “believes LGBT relationships can be holy”, or do believe the Bible verses which condemn homosexuality (Lev 18:22, Lev 20:13, Dt 23:17, Rom 1, 1 Cor 6:9-11, 1 Tim 1:9-10, Mark 10:6-9, Rev 21:8)?

          • Lumina

            Again and again, do you support 1 Corinthians 7:10-11?

          • Amos Moses

            God divorced Israel ……….

          • Lumina

            I’m now talking about ‘remarriage’.

          • Amos Moses

            but we have to talk about divorce BEFORE that happens …. and it is allowed in certain circustances ….. also ….

            7:8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
            7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

          • Lumina

            Again, that’s what Paul said, not Jesus, no?

          • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Do you support Jen Hatmaker assertion that “believes LGBT relationships can be holy”, or do believe the Bible verses which condemn homosexuality (Lev 18:22, Lev 20:13, Dt 23:17, Rom 1, 1 Cor 6:9-11, 1 Tim 1:9-10, Mark 10:6-9, Rev 21:8)?

          • Lumina

            Do you support 1 Corinthians 7:10-11?

          • kenster777

            Yes but also read Matthew 5:31-32 and Matthew 19:8-9

            Sexual immorality is the only reason Jesus allows for divorce but a Christian may also reconcile if the other side is truly repentant like the young lady Jesus told go and Sin no more.

            But that includes anyone who commits sin like someone practicing Homosexuality. Mark 10:2-12 God made them one Flesh Male and Female.
            He did not make any exceptions.
            He did not change the moral standards He set in Old testament

            Those that preach otherwise are deceiving there followers and will answer to God. Matthew 24:11, Mark 13:22, Luke 6:26 and II Peter 2:1

            If you tell a child to stop putting there hands near the fire he won’t get burned.
            Any sinful behavior separates you from Jesus and the Chance to enter the Kingdom of God.
            John 8:21 Hebrews 9:27

            But there is always Redemption through Christ Jesus.

            Ephesians 1:7, 1:14 John 14:6

            Work out your own Salvation with fear and trembling

            Philippians 2:12

          • Lumina

            “Sexual immorality is the only reason Jesus allows for divorce . . .”

            Then you must oppose no-fault divorce law.

          • Amos Moses

            NOPE ………. that is what the HOLY SPIRIT said to Paul and Paul WROTE IT …….

          • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Since you are trying to side-track the discussion:

            Do you support Jen Hatmaker assertion that “believes LGBT relationships can be holy”, or do believe the Bible verses which condemn homosexuality (Lev 18:22, Lev 20:13, Dt 23:17, Rom 1, 1 Cor 6:9-11, 1 Tim 1:9-10, Mark 10:6-9, Rev 21:8)?

          • Lumina

            NO you are the one who’s avoiding the issue I brought up.

            Do you support 1 Corinthians 7:10-11?

  • Eric Ennis

    Leviticus 20:13

  • NWaff

    Some may say being a life-long adulterer can be holy before God.
    Others may say – are you nuts!
    .
    At least we know Hillsong United embraces sin as a godly lifestyle.

  • Nidalap

    Good fruits?
    I think not…

  • Royce E. Van Blaricome

    Jen Hatmaker, like most if not all other Posers, have NO clue what “love” actually is. Doing the things the Hatmakers advocate is the opposite of Love.

    “Love” is doing God’s best for another regardless of whether they ask for it or how it’s received. THAT is what God did for Mankind.

  • raytheist

    ” “I would encourage any who listen to Hillsong music to stop.”

    Seriously? How utterly pathetic. You don’t have to agree with every artist’s opinions in order to enjoy their music. If you like their music, listen to it for what it is and quit being so hypocritical and judgmental about people who think differently about various issues. Ten years from now, nobody will care about same-sex marriage as an issue, but their music will still be just as meaningful.

    If Christian artists and gospel singers gave their actual opinions about things, you people would boycott all of them. Besides which, the gospel music industry is full gays and lesbians working behind the scenes, same as in any other industry. So what?

    • Oboehner

      Whew, I can still listen to my gansta rap then!!

      • raytheist

        Umm… well, sure, I suppose you *could*, if you resonate with the lyrics in that genre. All I ever got from rap and similar genre were vulgarities and sexism and violence, so I never listened to that.

        But if that’s your thing, go for it.

        I’m just saying don’t throw away Hillsong’s music just because someone in the group voices an opinion about social issues apart from their music.

        • Oboehner

          You don’t have to agree with every artist’s opinions in order to enjoy their music. If you like their music, listen to it for what it is and quit being so hypocritical and judgmental about people who think differently about various issues.

          • hytre64✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            If I were listening to classical music, I listen for the entertainment and relaxation of it – I don’t really care that Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart was a hedonistic little brat – just that he was brilliant at music.

            If I am worshipping God – either while listening to someone, or by using something that they have written – the actually I do care if they are out there promoting something that is (according to my reading of the Scriptures) anti-God. Their actions would be a stumbling block to me worshipping God. Do you eat food out of a bowl that someone threw up in, but you have not cleaned? Likewise, I would not use an “uncleaned vesicle” of worship. I say this as someone who has been on a praise & worship team for the last 20 years.

          • Oboehner

            So you’re crossing Hillsong off of your playlist then?

    • Amos Moses

      “If Christian artists and gospel singers gave their actual opinions about things, you people would boycott all of them. Besides which, the gospel music industry is full gays and lesbians working behind the scenes, same as in any other industry. So what?”

      i find very little of that music listenable and do not ….. it is the same “music industry” that gives us all the rest of blues, country, R&R, etc ….. there is essentially no difference ……. most of it is of the world …. and repugnant to me ….. not for the reasons you mention ….. but it does have its influence ….. and does contribute ……….

    • Soloved

      No, this issue will not go away, as you say. It will always be blight on Holy Matrimony, between one man and one woman.

      • raytheist

        Sure. And, there is a tiny handful of people who still get upset over interracial marriage, too, as if there is something wrong with that. In a few years, same-sex marriage will be a non-issue, definitely no longer a “hot-button” social issue at it has been. The only people who will be concerned by it are those people whose lives are not the least bit impacted by other people’s marriage, they just want something to complain about. Even now, same-sex marriage is pretty much a non-issue because society must move forward. Those who don’t like same-sex marriage don’t have to get same-sex married. Beyond that, it is none of their business what other people do.

        Old-fashioned busy-bodies and judgmental hypocrites are dying out. The younger generation doesn’t see what the big deal is, because it really is No Big Deal.

        Besides, “Holy Matrimony” is just a made-up church doctrine and doesn’t apply to people outside the church.

        • Soloved

          No, it’s not a “made up church doctrine”, its a gift of God, and applies to all people.. When God brought to Adam
          the woman who was specially created for him, he cried out joyfully:
          “This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh” (Gen. 2:23).
          This joy over a real companion is the explicit will of God: “It is
          not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for
          him” (Gen. 2:18). Marriage has been established by the Creator; it
          is therefore not a humanly devised institution. It existed from the
          beginning, as Jesus himself defined the origin and essence of marriage
          in Matthew 19:4-6: “Haven’t you read . . . that at the beginning the
          Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said ‘For this reason a
          man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and
          the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one.
          Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

          • raytheist

            Yes, of course it is made-up church doctrine. It doesn’t apply to me, or to anyone except those who choose to interpret their Bible that way. Since we know there was no literal Adam and Eve, it’s all just make-believe. You can live by your beliefs, and nobody can take that away from you. But you can’t push your beliefs onto others or expect them to live a lie just because you want to live that way. Marriage is a social institution, and it is decided by society and it changes a little with every passing generation. Always has, always will.

            And your religious interpretations and meanings have no bearing on other people’s civil marriages, gay or straight — they get to define their own marriage on their own terms.

          • Soloved

            That”s right, “their own marriage on their own terms”, not the creators. Oh it changes alright, as recently there has been created “civil union’s”.But that is in name only. These unions are done in Court houses. Marriages are done in Churches.The difference? One is joined by man, the other by God. One is sacred, the other is not.

          • raytheist

            Here in the U.S., the only marriages that actually count are the civil marriages with a state marriage license, so those are the only ones worth discussing in a public arena. Religious marriages are only recognized within their own religious circles, and don’t matter in real life, without the state marriage license.

          • Soloved

            All marriages require license, Civil or Church and God can
            bless both, if they are pleasing in His sight.. Speaking of “real life”, only The Lord can give that, as Jesus
            said: : “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly”.
            This is the, real life. It is there for anyone who believes.

          • raytheist

            Well, you’re welcome to believe whatever you wish, of course, but you’ve offered no evidence to support your claims, so it doesn’t matter to me. You don’t have any special insight regarding the quality of other people’s marriages, so you can’t make any sort of qualified judgment. Same-sex couples are just as married as opposite sex couples, under the law. That’s all the matters. If Christians want to complain about that, they just look ill-informed and rather arrogant.

          • Soloved

            Believing the truth is not being ill-informed, neither arrogant. It rather sets one free. But you’re welcome to believe what you wish.

          • Amos Moses

            “All marriages require license, Civil or Church and God can
            bless both”

            no it is not required ……… and no He does not ………. can …. but does not ……

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Apostates. Western people must stop viewing perversion as something normal. Endorsing homosexuality means denying sin’s existence and is not Christianity.

  • Theresh Eric Bayama

    It is pathetic gow people are so weak in defending the reason Jesus died on the cross because he wants followers or buyers.I satnd with the word and it condemns homosexuality and calls ot an abomination.Be sure of what tou say,hell is real

    • Kyler Phoenix

      Your grammar is atrocious. Jesus is a myth. Get an education.

      • Theresh Eric Bayama

        I thank God because we don’t get in heaven base on man standards.Jesus was according to men an illiterate ,but more than qualified to save humanity.If you’ve never made a mistake in your life in a language that’s not your primary one,throw your stone.if on the contrary my message got to you,i give glory to God, because the Gospel of Jesus reached someone else.

        • Kyler Phoenix

          God is bad fiction.

          • Theresh Eric Bayama

            A day will come when you will be asked to speak so proudly as you do today but you will not.May God forgive you for you don’t know what you say

          • Kyler Phoenix

            God is a myth.

  • Mary Louise

    So…let’s change the church to fit the wickedness of the world rather than bring them God’s Word, whole and intact. While I agree that there should be love here…what’s next? Embracing the pedophile? Bestiality? This is perversion.

    • Kyler Phoenix

      Logical fallacy. You are an uneducated bigot. Regardless of content, I forward all threads with comments about sex with kids to the FBI.

      • Mary Louise

        Name-calling? You know nothing about me. God’s Word stands. If that makes Him an uneducated bigot in your eyes, I’m honored to stand with Him.

        • Kyler Phoenix

          Truth telling, wantwit.

  • Reason2012

    Yes, I’m sure it’s refreshing to some to hear the lie that God is ok with some sinful behaviors like homosexual behavior. That refreshment will fade the moment we meet God, especially those who deceive others with that lie.

    • Kyler Phoenix

      Your name should not have reason in it.

  • michael louwe

    LEV.18 = 19 ‘Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness as long as she is in her customary impurity. 20 Moreover you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor’s wife, to defile yourself with her. 21 And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. 23 Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion.
    .
    .
    REV.22 = Jesus Testifies to the Churches

    12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”[f]

    14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,[g] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But[h] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

    16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

    17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
    _ _ _ _ _ _
    .
    Christians who condone or approve of homosexuality n other sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking are not true Christians.(ROM.1:18-32, 1COR.5:1-13, HEB.10:26-31, 1JOHN.5:16-21)
    .
    .
    P S – At ACTS.15:24-29, Gentile Christians hv been exempted by God/Jesus from keeping any law of Moses which is a burden, eg circumcision, kosher foods, etc. They should keep any law of Moses which is not a burden, esp moral laws, eg the Ten Commandments at EXO.20, DEUT.18:9-14, LEV.18:22-23, etc.
    ……. In comparison, God requires Jewish Christians to continue to keep most of Moses Law, ie as many as possible, bc it is not a burden to them.
    ……. In these 2 ways, both Gentile n Jewish Christians will be able to gain a good n optimum long life on earth AND inherit the kingdom of heaven/God when they leave this rotten earth or die.

  • http://www.gmail.com/ David van Heerden

    This refreshing thing doesn’t work for me. I’ve clicked “Refresh”, but the remarks stay the same – dead, compromised, foul. Reload isn’t any different.

  • Norman David Plumb

    There is a lot of money in “The GodBiz” and these charlatans will pretend and pretend until they don’t need you anymore… Then , they come out of the closet on whatever the issue is and head for mainstream venues, more money and more fame…

  • http://www.devoraclark.com Devora Clark

    “Brothers and Sisters in Christ” who practice homosexuality or fornication are in deliberate sin. If they are practicing this sin at Salvation, they should be counseled to forfeit this abominable lifestyle according to Torah. If they continue to practice this lifestyle as Christians, it is the job of the church leaders to excommunicate them from the church until they repent because they have broken covenant (1 Cor. 5:11). READ YOUR BIBLE!

    • Kyler Phoenix

      Or get an actual education…

  • Robert

    Judgent day not going to be a very pleasant day for some people. I don’t think blaming the bible is going to be a smart move either.
    .

  • Reason2012

    Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

    Homosexual behavior is most literally pointed out as a sin, and God has not changed on that regard. But if a person has those inclinations but does not act upon them, does not dwell in lust upon others, but is instead struggling against them to avoid them, then it’s not a sin. It’s just like sinful inclinations of any kind: it’s acting upon it when it becomes a sin.

    And this is what God says about sin and specifically the behavior of homosexuality:

    Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

    Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

    Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

    The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

    Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

    God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

    Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

    Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

    Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

    Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

    And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

    And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

    And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

    These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

    Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination …”

    Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

    Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

    Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

    1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

    1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

    2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

    And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

    Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

    Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

    And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

    Live forever, people – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world.

    May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

    • Kyler Phoenix

      You are obsessed and wrong.

  • Florenca Mcdowell

    God is the same today as yesterday and WILL NEVER CHANGE.
    FALSE PROPHETS IN THE CHURCH ARE NOT THE SHEEP WHO HEAR HIS VOICE.
    HGTV HAS BECOME A HOMOSEXUAL PROMOTION STATION. BOYCOTT IT

  • Robert

    Calling bad things good and good things bad. Reminds us of that bible verse about doing that huh..

  • Gena B

    Not real sure the songs she sings is glorifying God and now her words match it.

  • http://SidBakerOutreach.org Sid Baker

    Sometimes things make a little bit of sense, just enough to think there is truth there. But this Post is pure garbage! Certain things are presented in such a way that one does see there is truth to what it says, then on the heels of that are words that completely belie what was couched with it so as to make the whole of the statement appear to be a true one, when what was presented with the prefacing truth made it in fact lies, pure lies!

    Homosexuals, gays and lesbians, should NOT be supported in and by the church! One section of the letter stated, “She [Jen Hatmaker] said that churches should offer marriage and parenting help and support for those in homosexual relationships.” The article goes on, “From a civil rights and civil liberties side and from just a human being side, any two adults have the right to choose who they want to love. And they should be afforded the same legal protections as any of us,” she said when asked by Merritt if she supports same-sex “marriage.”

    First, the Church CANNOT allow the leaven of homosexuality to enter into the fabric of the church! Period! The attempts to get this sin into the church is Satanic, it is a movement by the devil to destroy that which the Lord Jesus Christ gave His Life for…. and he feels he can do this by deceiving Mankind as a Society to agree with, to go along with this sin, and put their stamp of approval on this that God the Father has already established as a practice that is an abomination to Him! Leviticus 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination [something that is morally disgusting. The Hebrew word used is primarily understood in the context of the Law of God].”

    In another paragraph, it is true that “these are our neighbors and friends” as they are. I am 66 years old and I have never thrown a rock at a gay or a lesbian, I have always treated them with the dignity of making their own decisions, although I have never agreed with that way of life, and those that I have known quite well know that I disagree with their view of that, but they know that I would never do anything to personally harm them either.

    However, it is a blatantly false statement when she asserts “but they are our brothers and sisters in Christ” because that is not true!! Repentant homosexuals, who have repented of that way of life, and have sworn off that practice, who have been redeemed and are living holy and righteous lives, Yes, as the Apostle Paul showed in his letter to the Corinthian church in I Corinthians, they have been changed and those are brothers and sisters of ours in Christ Jesus, however to receive them as brothers and sisters in Christ while they are still living in the lifestyle, residing together as man and man or woman and woman, that is an absolute NO, not to be done, period!!

    The Holy Spirit of God laid on the heart of the Apostle Paul to write, “I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people — not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would have to go out of the world [meaning you would have to die to avoid that]. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler — not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. Purge the evil person from among you.”

    That is a command! Read verses 1-8 of I Corinthians and you will see the sin which those church members has allowed to come inside the church and that man [who was a member of the church there] and his “live-in sexual partner he was committing adultery with], and the Apostle raked the coals over their hide with their atrocious sin of allowing the devil to bring those who involved in such sin into the inside of the church fellowship…. and he rebuked it, and ordered them to put that “evil person” away from them and their church fellowship.

    And, here, there are people today who are advocating against that Order from the Holy Spirit of God through the pen of the Apostle Paul! And multitudes are allowing themselves to be deceived by such garbage! Such lies! These doctrines are the very ones we were warned would come in the Last Days and be presented by evil spirits!! And anyone who is presenting stuff like this, oh they look so innocent, they may be neighbors that live down the street, or next door…. but remember what God has told us in His Word…. He said they would come! We were forewarned of these days! And we were told who such people would be, they would be the servants (ministers) of Satan, and we were warned not to let them deceive us!!

  • Cmac

    Well let’s see. How do you reconcile what the Scripture says about the subject?

    Lev 18:22, Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

    Or Lev 20:13 – ‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both
    of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death;
    their blood will be on their own heads..

    1 Cor 6:9 – Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    Jude 1:7 – Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them, which like them
    committed sexual sins and pursued homosexual activities, serve as an
    example of the punishment of eternal fire.

    Rev 22:15 – Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may
    have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the
    city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the
    murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

    2 Timothy 3:16 – All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    God forbid we slip into such apostasy to call that which is evil good. As the prophet Isaiah cries out “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

    Accepting sin and rationalizing it into something normal or even acceptable is not true love. Love speaks the truth, even when it hurts. Homosexuality is just one of many sins laid out in the Bible. Sin leads to death and eternal separation from God.

    Let us receive the instruction of the Lord…let us call that which is sin, sin and not something acceptable. Let us repent and call upon the Lord to forgive us our sins, and then as Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery in John 8:11, “Go and sin no more”. Let His blood, shed for you and me, wash you of your sin and cleanse you of a guilty conscience and renew a right spirit within you. In Jesus name, Amen.