‘I Stand by My Point:’ Joel Osteen’s Wife Unrepentant over Remarks of Worshiping God ‘for Self’

joelandvictoriaosteenHOUSTON — Victoria Osteen, wife of megachurch speaker and author Joel Osteen, is standing by her controversial remarks that called upon congregants at Lakewood Church to “do good for your own self” because obedience, the church and worship are not for God as much as for self-happiness.

As previously reported, Osteen caused an online uproar in recent weeks when a video surfaced of the “co-pastor” and author of the book Love Your Life explaining to the thousands present the personal benefits that they would receive in doing good, which would make God happy.

“I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we’re not doing it for God—I mean, that’s one way to look at it—we’re doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we’re happy,” she declared in the undated 36-second clip with her husband standing by her side and nodding. “That’s the thing that gives Him the greatest joy…”

“So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy,” Osteen continues. “When you come to church, when you worship Him, you’re not doing it for God really. You’re doing it for yourself, because that’s what makes God happy. Amen?”

Video footage of Osteen and reports surrounding her statements soon went viral, as many asserted that her teaching was unbiblical.

“She honestly believes that God exists to make us happy rather than holy,” Steve Camp, pastor of The Cross Church in Palm City, Florida and singer/songwriter, lamented. “She honestly believes that worship is about our fulfillment rather than His glory.”

Others defended Osteen, such as campus minister and blogger Morgan Guyton, who stated that she was “absolutely right if what she’s saying is that God doesn’t need us to worship Him for Himself, but He wants us to worship Him for our sake.”

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In light of the controversy, Osteen issued a statement to The Blaze this week, outlining that while she could have selected her words more carefully, she would not recant the core of her message, which was that Christians can find personal benefit in worshiping God.

“While I admit that I could have been more articulate in my remarks, I stand by my point that when we worship God and are obedient to Him we will be better for it,” she stated. “I did not mean to imply that we don’t worship God; that’s ridiculous, and only the critics and cynics are interpreting my remarks that way.”

“Every Lakewood member knows what I was talking about because they have experienced first hand the joy and victory of a Lakewood Church worship service, and the honor, reverence and gratitude we show God,” Osteen added.

Camp
Camp

Camp told Christian News Network on Saturday that he believes that Osteen is attempting damage control as her “original thought was her true thought.” He remains in disagreement with her assertions.

“Victoria’s view of God is far too human,” he said. “She honestly believes in her original comment that somehow God is happy when we’re happy. She forgets that the defining mark and characteristic of our Lord is not happiness, it’s holiness.”

Camp stated that Osteen’s comments fall in line with the philosophy that she and her husband espouse, that you are to seek Your Best Life Now and Become a Better You.

“Victoria’s view of our God simply reflective of her own worldview of what Christianity should be about—becoming a better you, prospering yourself and being happy if you are truly following Jesus,” he explained. “But our happiness has little or nothing to do with the Christian life.”

The writer of songs such as Not About Us and Consider the Cost said that it is hedonistic—a doctrine that teaches that the chief end of life is one’s personal pleasure—to worship God or attend church for what man can obtain in return.

“Pragmatic culture today has tried to redefine worship as something that we get out of it, but it’s not,” Camp explained. “We don’t worship God so that we’ll become a better you. We don’t worship God so that we’ll have a better job, a better bank account [or] a better attitude. We worship God simply because he is worthy of worship. … That’s the only reason that we worship Him.”

“If we participate for a pragmatic benefit—to say, ‘Just worship because look how much better you’re going to feel’—that is minimizing the worth of a holy God and making self the benefactor of worship, when worship is simply the glorifying of God entirely,” he outlined.

Camp pointed to Romans 12:1 in reminding Christians that worship is not just a song that is sung, but how we live every moment of our lives. And as followers of Christ, we are to take up our cross and die to self daily.

“True worship is not just what happens on Sunday,” he said. “True worship is seven days a week, 24 hours a day—that we live on the altar before God in presenting our bodies as living sacrifices. And that is what is pleasing to Him.”


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  • LabanI

    If I was Victoria and Joel Osteen I would seek salvation from God with fear and trembling. If not God will soon lay their apostacy bare.

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Amen, LabanI! God is not our cosmic waiter; He is our Boss.

  • Denise Muzzalupo

    Where is the Incoragement people? The word of God tells us to do everything in Love! If you feel she is in earr then FB her and with a humble heart, teach her and show her in the word of God, so her understands. The word of God tells us we know them by there fruit. So brothers and sisters lead her by the truth that is in you. but to NOT tear down by something she spoak of….The Lord is patient and kind and loving, He knows her heart better then we do. We are the Love and Not to judge…..Do everything in Love……

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Denise, you say “We are the Love and Not to judge.”

      But, you have judged the comments of others on this site as being too harsh. So, you have refuted yourself, by falling for the false and self-refuting doctrine of “we shouldn’t judge.” We judge thousands of times each day – all of us. In fact, it is terribly UNLOVING to watch someone fall into apostasy and NOT to point out her sins. Ezekiel 33 (watchman on the wall) actually says that her sins will be imputed to you as well, if you stand by and do not point out the error of her ways. The Truth, and the One who is Truth, is always going to sound harsh to a prosperity “gospel” preacher like Osteen. God bless, Denise!

    • Rob

      2 Timothy 4:2-3 “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;”

  • Chuck

    I see the next Jim and Tammy Faye Baker in the making.

  • Kenneth Mason

    I hear “false gospel” this and “prosperity gospel” that. Nothing that she said had anything to do with the Gospel. That is the main problem with most preaching. Christians are quick to call something a false gospel when what they are pernouncing as a false gospel is a doctrine not even connected with the gospel. It has become another witch hunt. You want the truth? The Gospel is that Christ died for our sins according to the scripture and that he was burried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures. He did this for the whole world. Any other doctrine is secondary and does not matter enough to argue about; for it will be sorted out in the real judgment. What should we do when we come across someone preaching a false doctrine; or any doctrine we do not agree with? Simple, bring the focus back to the simplicity of the Gospel of Christ. Arguing over doctrine separates the Church (just look at all of the different denominations), but Christ and His Gospel will only cause it to grow. So let us stop whining over something about happiness we think is wrong and get back to the child-like simplicity of the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ.

  • Jenny

    Joel Osteen preaches the ” Law of Attraction” straight out of the occult teaching ” the Secret” promoted by Oprah. He sprinkles Bible verses in his messages so people think their getting a Christian message but even Satan does that. The church is so biblically illiterate that it doesn’t even know it is being spoon fed occultism. Jesus never said to love your life. He said if you love your life you will lose it.

  • Mister Bubble

    Her statement is a summary of everything they teach – an empty message that doesn’t represent Biblical Christianity.
    This is what the Bible warns; “Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.” – Jas 3:1 ESV
    Also applicable to the Osteens; “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.” – 2Ti 4:3-4 ESV

  • Tina

    Psalm 103 – praise the Lord, o my soul and FORGET NOT ALL HIS BENEFITS. Hebrews 11 – Without faith it is impossible to please God, they must believe that He is and that He REWARDS those who diligently seek Him. Romans – If God be for us who can be against us? Luke – Don’t worry little children, it is your Father’s GOOD PLEASURE TO GIVE YOU the kingdom. According to His word, He is pleased when we believe that He exists AND that He rewards us.

    Lots of phariseeical attitudes on here who pick and choose what to believe in His word. The Gospel is the biggest benefit/reward of all and we have joy (which yes, can make you feel happy for all the critical hair splitters out there) because we are amazingly forgiven and clean only through the blood of Jesus. How many of you would be praising God if He said you are responsible for your sins and are going to hell no matter what … I mean, He is still holy and we should still praise Him because He is holy, right? All of you hypocrites are praising God either because you think you are earning your way into heaven OR because He has done something great for you in the Gospel.

    • Tina

      In the end, even for the “holier than thou” crowd, you are praising Him because of the benefit (TO YOU) of not going to hell and sadly some of you still think you are “earning” this benefit. God doesn’t need anything from us and that is what Mrs. Osteen is saying. Does He “need” our money/praise/etc. . . . NO. We need to give these things to Him to experience the best that He has for us … this is Biblical and that is all she is saying. Even you “holier than thou” folk are doing these things for yourself. Don’t be deceived.

  • Rob

    Of course she stands by her comment – she doesn’t stand by God’s Word, ignores how women are not to preach and is part of the lie that Jesus died so that people can be rich.

  • Tracie Miller

    ” I stand by my point that when we worship God and are obedient to Him we will be better for it,” I don’t recall hearing her say ANYTHING about being obedient. If she had said anything about being obedient, it would have made her comments have a chance of being biblically accurate. As they actually were, though, it’s pure blasphemy.

  • CAROL

    You all are certainly judgmental!!! Certainly not very Christian-like. A lot of these comments sound like jealousy!

  • Kathleen

    I also find her comments very improper to sound Christian doctrine, and potentially harmful because her point of view leads the flock’s focus to “self” instead of God. This is a trick Satan has used many times.

  • David Wilkerson

    She doesn’t know the Word of God either. Most likely never been born again. Die to self and repent. This doesn’t seem to be part of their life and ministry. It’s all about self and their ego.

    • constance rogers

      You must have never had exposure to Victoria. She is the mainstream of the Word of God at Lakeside Church. She is a fountain of God’s Word and I don’t believe she has any desire to reduce it or make it of no effect. If you read her revamp it is hard to find fault. Do you remain in your walk with God because You love His presence? Do you joy in who He is and His concepts? Do you remain faithful because you cannot bear to depart from the Living God? Has our lives benefited from knowing Him? Am I happy because He is? I believe all of these questions would be answered by Victoria with a resounding “yes”. Before you go for her juggler, I believe you hear from God and refrain from knocking a ministry that effects thousands upon thousands and directs them to God. Church meetings are only the first step there, growth and depth take place in home meetings and cell groups. If they are not for you don’t watch them. I believe God said if one, only one righteous came out of Sodom and Gomorrah that he would spare it’s destruction. I know there are many who are waling with God due to this ministry. And look how much better they are than those in that sin city.

      • wandakate

        CONSTANCE ROGERS: He talks, he’s an excellent motivational “speaker”, but he’s no preacher and doesn’t appear to be any humble man of GOD either. So, no, he’s not for me, I tend to see through people and their motives and phoniness.

        • constance rogers

          He is humble towards God. His success like his writings, his popularity give people the wrong idea. This man who came forth with no desire to be on the front lines has had to work through taking on his position. He knows his calling. It’s to encourage. He believes it all! He’l answer to God if indeed he has not done all he is called to do!

          • nathan

            It is easier for camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter heaven.

            He is a false teacher and that is proven by the Word of God.

            Peace and Mercy from Messiah

      • I_h8_disqus

        Too often both Osteens place their prosperity gospel over the true salvation gospel. Watch next Sunday. See how often he talks about salvation through Christ vs. talking about becoming happy or better off, and you will know why people are not happy. See how often he talks about helping others vs. helping yourself.

      • nathan

        These frauds DO NOT LEAD PEOPLE TO GOD. Only with repentance and faith can we be found in God’s presence. These 2 are nothing but pulpit pimps deceiving the foolish masses.

        We hear from God in his Word and these 2 frauds DO NOT PREACH THE WORD OF GOD.

        If you defend them, then you are a fraud just like them. Followers of Jesus do not defend wolves, we expose them.

        Peace and Mercy from Messiah Jesus

      • MarcAlcan

        She is a fountain of God’s Word

        Fountain of God’s word? Looks more like Baal in nice clothes.

        • constance rogers

          It is bothersome to people that others can see a gift of exhortation in Joel and Victoria. Aren’t the gifts of God without repentance? Isn’t God’s promise to Joel’s father to save his family for a thousand generations valid. Well, you can spend your time picking them apart. If you think it’s important that everyone be calling them names and casting stones, have at it. That’s the calling you want to stand before Jesus for? We are accountable for ourselves. Years ago, when I attended there when I visited the area, there was a great refreshing for me as well as their programming. Though I haven’t watched the programming for sometime, is it really my job to band them, taunt them, label them. If that is what you choose to sew you certainly will reap it.

          • MarcAlcan

            Jesus is truth!
            As such, if you follow Jesus you must expose the lie. If you like the lie, then you follow the father of lies. That is all there is to it.

          • Bingo

            Amen sister.

    • wandakate

      DAVID WILKERSON: It sounds like a health and wealth gospel or the feel good gospel or a combination of the two all rolled up into one package.
      Count the number here, count the offering (probably takes over an hour to do that). It’s about me, me, and Joel and me.
      If either of them are born again it would shock me. They have a multitude of followers b/c those people go there to hear what their itching ears want to hear.

      • Beth Bowers

        Just so you know, the Osteens don’t get a salary from their church. I think it is very dangerous to judge human beings hearts and motives. and what if you are wrong?? These kinds of articles make unbelievers turn away. These articles sound just like the Pharisees used to and God called them a brood of vipers
        . We need to be very careful th words that come out of our mouths, for one day we will have to answer to the Almighty God for them.

        • Bingo

          Amen!

        • MarcAlcan

          Just so you know, the Osteens don’t get a salary from their church

          Yes, because they draw a salary, the bulk goes to them in one form or another.

        • Vito Zabala Halasan

          He’s rich by the way..check it out..

          • Bingo

            His wealth is not from any salary as a pastor. God blesses those whom He finds trustworthy to sow their wealth into His Kingdom. You have no right to judge called servants of God in this way, lest you be judged.

    • Vito Zabala Halasan

      she talks for herself not for God…Biblically..Women shouldnt go farther as men do as leader of the church..

    • Bingo

      Ego, they name is David Wilkerson. Know the word, then speak.

  • Kazirimu Bright

    There is practically nothing wrong with what she said. All that we do in the name of God is for our own good and not for God. Giving, worshiping, obedience etc are all done for the benefit of the beleiver. How does God benefit from my obedience, holy living, or even giving. Victoria was very right.

    • JudgeRight

      There is practically EVERYTHING WRONG with what she said. God is a Person which is different from the believer. Obedience to God is obedience to Christ and His teachings, it is not obedience to self, and self-made, self-happiness teachings.

      • Jud Bennett

        @Judge: Shouldn’t that be obedience to Christ is obedience to God? It might have just been an error on your part, but your wording has you placing Jesus above God and, if I remember my enforced bible study years ago, that’s a huge no no.

        On topic though, why are Christians obedient? For almost all of them it’s out of fear of eternal damnation. Forcing obedience through fear leads to militant zealots or revolution/rebellion.

        Besides, this particular type of evangelical believes that acquiring earthly wealth proves that you are the chosen of God. And if one follows a select few of the Judaic scriptures and twists them, they can make their argument based on Genesis 17-20, 30-31, and 40. 1 Kings 3:11-13. 1 Chronicles 29:12. 2 Chronicles 9:22, 17:5. The people in those chapters were the chosen of God and offered riches and lands to do God’s bidding.

        However, these evangelicals claim to follow the teachings of Jesus who condemned earthly wealth and taught that the riches of the spirit are the riches that matter. I can give you a large list of biblical references on this if you need it.

        • JudgeRight

          What are you actually saying? Do you support Victoria’s heresy or reject it? (The heresy being the worship of self under the disguise of worshiping God.)

          • Jud Bennett

            No. I don’t support her. I think she’s a proper nutter.

          • JudgeRight

            Thanks for clarifying. I agree with your statement about her wits.

        • wandakate

          JUDBENNETT: It’s what’s in the heart that counts, and not what we own. JESUS said that it would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it would be for a rich man to go to the Kingdom of GOD. He also said If we love the world and the things of this world then the love of the FATHER is not in us. He said that He would turn away sinners and that He would say to them on that day, “Depart from me, I never knew you”. Many will say on that day LORD, LORD. But all who say to Him LORD, LORD, won’t enter the Kingdom of GOD, but only the ones who do the will of the FATHER in Heaven…
          It’s what’s in their hearts and the preaching of the real truth of the word that will get them into Heaven, not how much money they have, not what kind of clothes they are wearing, or what mansion they live in or what type of cars they both drive or what type of schools their kids are enrolled in, NONE of that will matter to GOD, none of it.

          • Jud Bennett

            I know that, it’s this particular breed of evangelicals that have done what so many others have done before them and still do. They’re taking a few choice sections and, if the scripture doesn’t necessarily fit with what they want it to, they’ll twist the meaning while discarding what’s inconvenient.

        • Jesus is God

          Jesus clearly taught, Blessed are the POOR in spirit, not RICH in spirit. You need to re-read the Bible.

      • wandakate

        JUDGERIGHT: It’s called the “feel good” gospel. They preach another gospel, another JESUS. GOD is not a person, GOD is a spirit. JESUS was a human being (soul-person-human) but GOD was and is a spirit.

    • Jeremy Stephenson

      If you think there’s nothing wrong with what she said, you haven’t read God’s written Word. The Osteens (and others like them) are teaching people that we are the object of our faith when God is supposed to be the object of our faith. (2 Timothy 3:1-7) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. {2} For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, {3} Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, {4} Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; {5} Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.{6} For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, {7} Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

      • Kazirimu Bright

        Jeremy, how does God benefit from us receiving salvation, being obedient to His word or even worshipping Him?

        • JudgeRight

          But then, why do we need God? We can make him up for our own benefit, as Victoria says. And what kind of God is he then, if he is made in our own image?

          • Kazirimu Bright

            We need God so much, and that propels me to love us more and more. God is so sufficiently comfortable and truth is all that He says to us, is for our own benefit. If I worship God, it is not because God has lacked anyone or anything to worship Him. He could actually command the trees to worship Him! It is always an honour to love God coz I know it will always turn out to be towards my benefit and not necessarily God’s.

          • wandakate

            BRIGHT KAZIRIMU: He bestows His rich blessing on His earthly children. We should give Him thanks, and worship Him daily. No GOD lacks not anything. I’m sure He is pleased when we do things for ourselves and for the Kingdom of GOD as well.
            It’s not about Victoria or the people, it’s all about HIM. Praise His name. It’s not about religion either, it’s about our own personal relationship with GOD. We should work for the night is coming when no many can work. We should obey. JESUS said, If you love me, keep my commandments. And our FAITH without our WORKS is dead. We are to work for the coming Kingdom by witnessing and testifying to the lost about what GOD has done for us…

      • Larry Mccoy

        Amen

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

      theft, lies, adultry and other sins are also to one’s benefit (albet temporary) as well. Is it then holy to engage in those actions as well since it doesn’t hinder God?

      • Kazirimu Bright

        Hi Regina, I have not said that “theft, lies, adultery and other sins” are to ones benefit. Contrarily, I am just pointing out the fact that involving in such acts will never change God’s attitude towards a person. God will lose nothing and ultimately gain nothing by an individual indulging himself or herself in the acts you mentioned. My living a holy and righteous life does not benefit God in any way. It is all for my good.

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

          So you agree then, you think it’s OK to sin.

          • Kazirimu Bright

            I have not said any thing about it being okay to sin Regina. I am stressing the fact that sin is for our own disadvantage in contrast to righteousness and holiness which are to our own advantage. My living a holy life does not benefit God but myself as an individual.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            Kazirimu, I was looking at my comments again and I realized I was being very harsh with you and I wanted to apologize. I do get where you’re coming from and obviously you’re not using this as an excuse to sin. So I’m very sorry for jumping down your throat. You didn’t deserve it and my conduct was unbecoming of a Christian.

          • Kazirimu Bright

            Thank you Regina. That is really humbling. Our differences over understanding a particular portion of scriptural interpretation (by another person) does not make us enemies but fellow students of the word of God with a loving father. Blessings to you and may God continuously lead you from glory to glory.

          • wandakate

            REGINA FORBES: I agree that you were a tad unchristian there, but none are perfect. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of GOD. BUT, it does take courage and Christian conduct to realize your mistakes and make an apology. It doesn’t hurt for Christians to disagree, what hurts is when we jump down each others throats about it and argue and bicker, which does not please GOD in the least. I’m happy you both got it worked out, Angels are probably happy, GOD is happy, so all of us are now happy…

      • wandakate

        REGINA FORBES: Absolutely not…We are actually to obey GOD. What about the 10 Commandments? Are they still relevant today? Or are they obsolete? I “never” heard Joel speak about them, however, Jesus said, “IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.” What commandments was it talking about? Does anybody have any idea?

    • John

      Practically nothing? If we are not worshiping God FOR God, then why involve Him at all? We worship Him because He is the single source of holiness in existence, the only source of goodness and righteousness. He gives to us in abundance IF we seek Him out. It is Not God who blesses these two, but the ruler of this world, Satan. They seek to make peace with Islam?? Rapers of children, murders of gays? We are told to Love All Men, even the lost, but not to make peace with EVIL. That itself is evil. If the good you do is for your benefit, it is not good fruit, but selfishness. I’m sorry if that sounds harsh, it is harsh, but I would rather be harsh than sugar coat it like them and not be honest. Your very soul and the souls of those you guide are at risk. If you truly seek a path to Heaven, you need to read the book of John, that’s a good place to start, and not in some new agey translated version and not KJV. Go to Biblegateway.com and read it in thee different versions (or if that’s too intimidating, try the NIV) so that you can understand, because you do not. Peace and joy, sister. I earnestly wish you well!

  • JudgeRight

    The Osteen’s message looks like the Gospel but is in fact another gospel. And of course she is unrepentant. She is her own god so why should she repent before herself? She wants to be happy and repentance brings unhappiness.

    Call the heretics for what they are so they repent before the true God. Plus, why is she even teaching? Who is she teaching?

    • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

      She is teaching you, a man. Yes a woman is teaching you. Eat your heart out.

      • JudgeRight

        Is she? Teaching me what?

        • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

          No. She is teaching you how to love like Jesus which I doubt you have learned anything about.

          • JudgeRight

            Tessa, aren’t you judging me right now? My heart? How could you? I thought you were all about love? Don’t I deserve a little bit of God’s love that you so generously extend to the heretical couple?

          • MarcAlcan

            Teaching us to love Jesus?
            She is teaching idolatry. The Golden Calf has her mouth open preaching to the frenzied Israelites.

          • Oboehner

            “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” 1Timothy 2:12

          • Bingo

            Context is everything!

          • Oboehner

            Yup.

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            All the women around you had better cut their tongues so you would be pleased.

          • Oboehner

            Is that what it says there?

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            You have your motives for saying that and I know it isn’t love. The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.

          • Oboehner

            I rest my case.

          • Bingo

            I guess that’s because your heavy case is full of rocks.

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            Mary Magdalene taught a whole village and they came to Jesus. If I choose to and when I do, you can’t stop me. Adios!

          • Oboehner

            Are you going to teach people to ignore scripture?

          • Bingo

            Like you do?

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            The Samaritan woman, Mary Magdalene, the church that meets at Chloe’s house, Deborah the judge, I could list so many women God used, whether you believe it or not, God uses women.

            If you don’t believe the bible, that is okay with me. And I believe the bible so I am just fine with it.

          • Oboehner

            The Bible records a lot of things done that weren’t God’s will.

            “And I believe the bible so I am just fine with it.” Except for that stuff that Paul wrote that you don’t agree with.

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            And you know better than the bible what God’s will is.
            God help you.

          • Oboehner

            Only that which is stated in the Bible, even that stuff you don’t like that Paul wrote down.

            “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” 1Timothy 2:12

          • Bingo

            Tessa, God bless you, dear, but you are dealing with a hard-nosed Pharisee.

          • Bingo

            The basis for that is that all must learn in silence, but the women had to be reminded, and the men not so much.

          • Oboehner

            Not even close.

          • Bingo

            Well then, you’ve missed Paul’s meaning. That’s typical.

          • Oboehner

            The meaning is clear, you’ve just chosen to twist it to suit your agenda. That’s typical.

          • Bingo

            No, your meaning is the distortion, for it goes against who God is and how He feels about each one of us.

          • Oboehner

            You can have your emotional feel-good, I’ll stick to the text.

          • Bingo

            I have the text and the true meaning of it, to boot.

          • Oboehner

            Then what’s the problem?

          • Bingo

            No problems for me.

          • Oboehner

            Then stop twisting and go with it.

          • Bingo

            I never twist scripture. I study it and meditate on it, and ask the Lord to teach me the truth from it. I don’t take a surface read and accept what tradition tries to teach. The truth is that God gifts women in the exact same ways as men, to teach, preach, prophesy and pastor. He alone calls, and He alone promotes.

          • Oboehner

            “God gifts women in the exact same ways as men, to teach, preach, prophesy and pastor.” Other women, not men.

          • Bingo

            That is not the truth, either. You need to really study the word.

          • Oboehner

            “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” 1 Timothy 2:11–12
            This word?

          • Bingo

            Yes, but one must understand that the admonition to learn in silence is for all. Women in that situation Paul was addressing were not observing proper etiquette for group learning. Men already knew, because of the way they were raised. girls, not so much, in that culture.

            The reason this command is directed toward women here is
            only because teaching women in the same way as men was still a revolutionary practice in that culture and was still repulsive to many men, believers or not.

            As for usurping, that is also something that men would have known…one doesn’t wrest authority from anyone. The word “authentein” used by Paul is the rare word that is not the normal word for authority (exousia)—-it is a word that connotates violence, or sexual control. He was not speaking of legitimate Godly authority that all believers, male and female have in Christ within the Body of Christ. So, you are a victim of poor understanding and mistranslation.

            Everyone must learn without speaking out of turn, with respect for the teachers, and must never seize authority from another in inappropriate ways. We all must submit to one another.

            Paul was not making a for-all-time edict for the Body of Christ.

          • Oboehner

            Stretching, twisting, you’re really giving that passage a workout to suit YOUR agenda.
            “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” 1 Timothy 2:11–12 Your “interpretation” doesn’t come close to the text.
            Don’t tell me , let me guess, you’re a female “pastor” or you know one.

          • Bingo

            No, far too many people have been taught error about this, and you are one of them…and too lazy to seek the truth about it.

          • Oboehner

            The text is plain, no need for further seeking, so are you a female “pastor” or do you know one? Or are you just going to dodge the question – again?

          • Bingo

            It is only plain to those who settle for man’s teaching and do not delve further into what appears to be contradictory to how the first churches actually functioned—with women as pastoral leaders alongside men, with Jesus Christ as the great equalizer. Culture has gotten in the way, here.

          • Oboehner

            Still dodging the question as you twist and stretch.

          • Bingo

            Still refusing to seek out the truth for yourself, I see.

          • Oboehner

            Oh look, I found it: “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” 1Timothy 2:11–12

            And here: “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 1Corinthians 14:33-35
            “…with women as pastoral leaders alongside men…” I highly doubt it, if true you could post chapter and verse.

            So are you a female “pastor” or do you know one? Or are you just going to dodge the question – again?

          • Bingo

            Oh look, another so-called Christian with the nasty effect of the
            Greco-Roman vestige of misogyny that continues to permeate even today’s
            culture!

            What is one of the worst things that has happened to humanity is both the Greek and Roman Empires, with their deeply rooted misogynistic philosophy which has permeated all cultures thenceforth and to this day.

            Jesus Christ has come and set in motion a new paradigm of equality in the church so that it would be a lighthouse to the world, but it has failed Him by not stamping out that deep-seated hatred and has allowed Satan’s hatred of woman to continue in his influence.

            It is a sad thing that the devil has been so successful at HALVING the workforce of the Kingdom of God for at least two thousand years. He has had it in for the woman since Eve, and he has been successful at causing men to believe the lie about women being somewhat less than. Women are not denied anything by God in any way. By having mankind—including the Church—buy the lie for century upon century, he has delayed the Lord’s coming! Think about that.

          • Oboehner

            Oh look, another so-called Christian with the nasty effect of the neo-“liberated” woman who cares not for biblical teachings or truth, but only for her personal agenda!
            Greek and Roman Empires are completely irrelevant here, scripture and God’s intent (but you seem to know better than God) are what matters.

            “Jesus Christ has come and set in motion a new paradigm of equality in the church…” What is that 1opinions 1:3? You have absolutely no biblical backing for that statement, just because you want it to be true does not make it so.
            It is a sad thing that the devil has been so successful at the same lie that Eve bought in the garden, and you are swallowing hook, line, and sinker. You are created in God’s image, stop trying to create him in yours.

            “…he has delayed the Lord’s coming!” He has absolutely no control over the Lord’s coming, and if by his coming you mean some kind of “pre-trib” fallacy, you sadly mistaken on that front as well, there is no biblical backing for that either. Think about that while you dodge a simple question yet again.

          • Bingo

            Just continue on with your own low level of comfort. Others who have had the revelation of truth about what Jesus Christ is doing in the world through every man, woman and child who’ve made Him their Saviour AND Lord, and have been freed from their chains of the doctrines of men, and enabled them to do what He calls them to do and not what people say they should do and not do—will continue to flourish and prosper in Christ.

            Your understanding is abysmal.

          • Oboehner

            Just continue on with your own low level of comfort ignoring scripture, making God in your image, the way you want Him to be – not the way He is. In trying to justify your own beliefs and agenda, what other scriptures are you eager to ignore?
            Yes Christ calls every man, woman, and child who’ve made Him their Saviour and Lord, but he does so according to his word which doesn’t account for women “pastors” teaching men. The text is clear.

          • Bingo

            Everyone who is saved is called to teach and preach from the most simple ministry to our neighbour and family, to vast crowds. We don’t pick and choose who our audience is. God appoints those He calls—not you or anyone else.

          • Oboehner

            Perhaps in your cult, but in Biblical Christianity, women can only teach other women – period. God would not call someone to do something contrary to his word, hence God has already appointed women to only teach other women, not to teach men. Your posts are a prime example of why that is.

          • Bingo

            If you think that people who follow Jesus Christ and are into God’s word daily are cults, then I shudder what kind of church you go to.

            Women are NOT called to teach only other women. We are called to teach and preach and disciple anyone that God sends.

          • Oboehner

            I don’t think those that follow God’s Word are in a cult, however you do not follow God’s word. The text is crystal clear.
            “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” 1 Cor 14:34-35 – That is God’s word.
            “Women are NOT called to teach only other women.” That is not.

            “The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young WOMEN to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,” Titus 2:3-5

          • Bingo

            Sorry, but I not only follow God’s word, but I have bothered to study to find out what God really thinks, and am assured that you are simply toeing the line of error about this very issue—an error in thinking that has permeated the Church for several hundred years, as a vestigial bias from Greco-Roman influence that permeates the world, and the Body of Christ has not rejected it as it should have.

            Of course it is the right and good thing for our older women to teach our younger women, and men to teach younger men. But in the body of Christ as a whole, we are to be working shoulder to shoulder, just as Adam and Eve worked shoulder to shoulder before the fall. In Jesus we have restoration to that place of equality of service. Paul knew it and never taught against it.

            You fail to appreciate how it was n Paul’s day, that women had to learn how to learn, and that Paul was speaking to the leaders of the Church about proper learning etiquette. Men already know how to learn in silence, and women still needed that correction.

          • Oboehner

            Like I said, the text is crystal clear, all you weaseling around about “bias from Greco-Roman influence” doesn’t change a thing.
            “Paul knew it and never taught against it.” What do you call the scripture passages I posted? Yet another example of why women shouldn’t be teaching in church.

            “You fail to appreciate how it was n Paul’s day, that women had to learn how to learn, and that Paul was speaking to the leaders of the Church about proper learning etiquette. Men already know how to learn in silence, and women still needed that correction.” Given the text, that fallacy is not even laughable. Your twisting and embellishing scripture (which I see you post none to back your fallacies) from your emotional standpoint, doesn’t hold a drop of water.

          • Bingo

            The text is crystal clear to those Paul was speaking to, but not to the 21st century audience, obviously.

            You have to twist who Paul is to get your understanding of it. There were female leaders in the churches in his day! Phoebe was a deacon and one who was valuable to him. Should he have removed her from her position, or did he make a mistake in having her there?

          • Oboehner

            Scripture is just as relevant today as it was then.

            “I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a SERVANT of the church which is at Cenchrea:” Romans 16:1 The text does not say she was teaching men.

            “A bishop (deacon) then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;” 1 Timothy 3:2 Was Phebe the husband of one wife?
            Nice try but no.

          • Bingo

            You ignore the fact that Phoebe was a deacon? So, you will twist the word to suit your bias.

          • Oboehner

            Fact? Was she teaching men? Give chapter and verse on that.

          • Bingo

            Yes it is a fact Phoebe was a minister (today’s word is deacon”) She was influential to Paul, and by that, she would have actually served as one who has taught him a thing or two in the Lord’s power. In the Church, we all teach each other.

            1. Phoebe was entrusted with the delivery of Paul’s epistle. This meant that she did more that postal delivery. She likely read the epistle to them, answered any questions, and explained in detail Paul’s intent.

            2. Paul admonished them to receive her in a manner worthy, and to assist her in whatever business she has need of them. Surely he did not mean handing her a broom! More likely, he is
            telling them to treat her with honor, be supportive, and assist her in the ministry of the gospel.

            3. Phoebe is praised as a “prostatis” of many.

            Phoebe is not just a deacon, she is a prostasis, “presiding officer”, “leader and protector”. The term prostatis referred to a person of the front-rank, the chief of a body of people; in general, a ruler, someone who stands in front of the people and protects them. It encompassed the giving of financial or material aid. It was also a term which referred to those who gave protection to people who did not have civil rights.

          • Oboehner

            Still no chapter and verse for you cultish beliefs, just biased opinions in an attempt to justify your agenda, Gloria would be proud.

          • Bingo

            The cultish beliefs are your own. God wants to free you.

          • Oboehner

            According to his word, not your personal beliefs.

          • Bingo

            That’s right—always according to God’s word.

          • Oboehner

            “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”

          • Bingo

            Indoctrination of the sort you promote is based on a poor revelation of what Paul is saying to the churches of his time—he is NOT making a for-all-time edict. Most likely not your first mistake.

          • Oboehner

            “I am the Lord, I change not” Mal. 3:6
            “Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away” Luke 21:33

          • Bingo

            How true those words are. Too bad you miss the import of them.

          • Oboehner

            Too bad you ignore them.

          • Bingo

            You fail to grasp the full meaning of God’s word concerning His Kingdom—to everyone.

          • Oboehner

            You consistently ignore his word, while making up your own to suit your agenda.

          • Bingo

            I NEVER ignore anything God says in His word…or to me, personally.

            Try again, bud.

          • Oboehner

            Unless you disagree with it right?

            “Paul is saying to the churches of his time—he is NOT making a for-all-time edict.”
            ALL scripture is God breathed.
            “I am the Lord, I change not” Mal. 3:6
            “Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away” Luke 21:33 Sounds like God’s edict for all time.

          • Bingo

            There is NOTHING in scripture I disagree with. It is God speaking and Holy Spirit teaching, if one dares to study it.

          • Oboehner

            Study it, not mold it into your way of thinking.

          • Bingo

            That is precisely what I did do, waiting on God to teach me—and he has done, thank the Lord Jesus Christ. I would suggest you go to Him, study the word again and learn from Him, alone.

          • Oboehner

            Waiting for God to say something you want to hear doesn’t cut it, the text is clear.

          • Bingo

            Closed ears is your trouble.

          • Oboehner

            Ignoring scripture is yours.

          • Bingo

            That is something I never do.

          • Oboehner

            You’ve gone beyond proving that you do.

          • Oboehner

            You can stretch, you can twist, you can accuse God of having a bias, you can say what you like, the truth remains the same: “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.” 1Co 14:34

          • Bingo

            You totally misunderstand a simple command concerning learning behaviour that the first churches had to contend with and take it 21 centuries down the road as some sort of command against women using their leadership gifts in the Body of Christ.

            Dumb and stupid. I’ll bet you make your wife wear a veil.

          • Oboehner

            You twist scripture because you don’t like what it has to say, there is absolutely no truth or validity in the argument you posted, God’s word is clear – “21 centuries down the road” makes no difference (as I posted before) God NEVER changes, what he said the applies today. Whether you choose to accept it or not, is irrelevant as it is clearly stated. If you want to use your “leadership skills” (which you demonstrate as dubious) use them with other women.

          • Bingo

            Yeah, 21 centuries down the road, the wrong message has been sent, and imprinted on the Church and has crippled it, thus HALVING the workforce of the Body of Christ to do and speak the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the world.

          • Oboehner

            So what you’re saying is that scripture is “the wrong message”. More evidence against women teaching men, God is not “halving” anything – go speak to all the women you want, but stick to the scriptures or don’t bother. God doesn’t call people to contradict his word.

          • Bingo

            No—you have the wrong message because you misunderstand and misinterpret Paul.

          • Oboehner

            Do tell how I misunderstand this: “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.” or this: “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”

          • Bingo

            Seeing as women were encouraged to prophesy (which includes preaching), and that women were leaders in the house of God, even as apostles, working as equals with men, as God has seen fit through Christ to restore that same equality as was enjoyed in the Garden of Eden, through Jesus Christ, the great Equalizer, it is a blinded person who cannot determine that the Body of Christ has no gender split with regard to serving our King.

          • Oboehner

            Like I said, post the scripture.

          • Bingo
          • Oboehner

            Someone else twisting scripture doesn’t count, try again.

            http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Feminism/women_preachers.htm

          • Bingo

            Why do you think there is some other additional scripture? Guess again. We have the same scriptural references, but you take on the false application.

          • Oboehner

            Post some scripture that states women are to teach men. You want so badly to justify YOUR will that you are ignoring God’s. The text is simple and easy to understand, no amount of twisting or embellishing changes that. Sorry, women are not to be teaching men, that is exactly what the scripture states. There’s no way around it.

          • Bingo

            As we are to allow scripture to train us up as fully mature ministers of Christ, there is nothing barring anyone from teaching, preaching, or prophesying to any particular group of people.

            You want so badly to segregate half the Body of Christ that you would actually accuse people who are free in Christ to stifle their gifts that God has given and for them to deny the positioning that He has given them to minister to the Body. That is sin, pure and simple.

          • Oboehner

            “…there is nothing barring anyone from teaching, preaching, or prophesying to any particular group of people.” Scripture proves you wrong.
            “You want so badly…” I want nothing, I follow the biblical text – period. If God’s word says women are not to teach men, and you claim he gave you the “gifts” to do so, you are deceived (as Eve was) or a liar, pure and simple. God does not give “gifts” contrary to his word, your feminist desire doesn’t change that.

          • Bingo

            Correct, Holy Spirit-given understanding of scripture tells me I am right.

            Yes, you want so badly for all to fall into step with your (and too many others’) cursory reading of Paul’s admonitions to the churches he led in the first century AD, concerning learning behaviour and meeting etiquette, that it is a command for the 21st century Church

            Your deception is very deep, indeed.

            Holy Spirit doesn’t check between the legs to determine who gets what gifts. Nowhere in scripture is any particular gift withheld due to one’s plumbing. therefore, you have no right to slam the door in the face of women. That is the sin of pride and favouritism that Jesus hates. Many wonderful men—and women—will have to face up to their erroneous beliefs concerning this very issue before the Lord Jesus Christ, one day. Holding back those He anoints for service He has ordained and trained them for, based on their sex–or for any other reason—is a serious sin.

          • Oboehner

            I wouldn’t say Holy Spirit-given understanding, more on the lines of Gloria Steinem induced understanding.
            “churches he led in the first century AD, concerning learning behaviour and meeting etiquette, that it is a command for the 21st century Church” You contradict scripture yet again, GOD DOESN”T CHANGE neither does his word, it is just as relevant today as it was then. What next, thou shalt not kill doesn’t apply today either? Hogwash!
            Stop insinuating that that I had anything to do with the scriptures, I did not. The simple fact that you made the statement: churches he led in the first century AD, concerning learning behaviour and meeting etiquette, that it is a command for the 21st century Church” proves you know exactly what it means and you are merely trying to discredit the text.
            Speaking of the sin of pride, ignoring God’s word for your own personal gratification definitely qualifies.
            “Holding back those He anoints for service He has ordained and trained them for, based on their sex–or for any other reason—is a serious sin.” God wouldn’t anoint those who he has said should not be engaging in a specific activity, the only sin here is ignoring that which he clearly stated in plain text.

          • Bingo

            Say whatever you like…the Lord has given me His approval an His confidence concerning the role of women in the Body of Christ. You may continue in your beliefs, but the Lord Jesus Christ is my teacher and He has freed me of those falsely held beliefs. why? Because I asked Him to teach me. He is pleased to answer the fervent prayers of the righteous–and HE NEVER DISCREDITS THE TEXT.

            Enjoy your delusion. You are the one who misses out.

          • Oboehner

            The true God does not contradict himself, be careful as to which “god” you follow.

            “HE NEVER DISCREDITS THE TEXT.” But you do.

          • Bingo

            You contradict the true God.

          • Oboehner

            Nope, I follow the text, I don’t embellish and make excuses.

          • Bingo

            Instead of the base text, I suggest you follow Holy Spirit’s revelations.

          • Oboehner

            What do you think the text is?

          • Bingo

            What do you think it is—just words? You need to STUDY, and to know who Paul was speaking to, and why and when this was.

          • Oboehner

            I have, Paul was writing that women should not be teaching men – clear and precise. When has absolutely no relevance, if it was just for that time, it would not have been recorded.

          • Bingo

            I don’t allow the flesh to twist scripture. I love what God says there.

          • Oboehner

            “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” You don’t love this.

          • Bingo

            I don’t love the misinterpretation and misapplication of it. But I fully comprehend Paul’s words to the early churches he was leading.

          • Oboehner

            Psychobabble doesn’t prove your point, nor does it indicate you understand plain text.

          • Bingo

            You can scorn all you like, but I suggest you seek God in this and prayerfully study His word, asking Him to teach you the truth. You don’t want to go out into eternity having been dreadfully wrong and poorly judging about half of the body of Christ, now, do you?

          • Oboehner

            I suggest you seek God in this and prayerfully study His word, reading the truth he stated in the scripture. You don’t want to go out into eternity having been dreadfully wrong and poorly judging about half of the body of Christ, now, do you?

          • Bingo

            That’s exactly what I did, and I waited on the Lord’s answer, which He gave me in such a wonderful, easy way. I am more than confident in His teaching on this and now am fully apprised of His will regarding women in the Body of Christ.

            Now it’s your turn to do the same thing.

          • Oboehner

            You hear what you want to, not what the scripture plainly states. Women can labor in the body of Christ – they can’t teach men. You belief is in direct contradiction to the Word of God, and as you continue to prove, you can’t back it up scripturally.

          • Bingo

            Scripture does back me up, because I properly understand that Paul’s instructions were addressing the church issues of his own culture.

          • Oboehner

            If scripture actually backed you up you would post it, therefore you have nothing.
            I posted already that your “church issues of his own culture” argument is null and void according to God’s Word, again your wishful thinking does not hold up to scripture – at all.

          • Bingo

            Scripture backs me up—you just misunderstand Paul. Your thinking doesn’t hold up to how God works.

          • Oboehner

            Say it with me now: There is nothing to misunderstand, it is as plain to see as the nose on your face – you are just desperately clinging to your own agenda.

          • Bingo

            No, I cling to Jesus’ agenda, praise the Lord!

          • Oboehner

            Must be a different Jesus from the Son of God, because you are contradicting him.

          • Bingo

            You must not be acquainted with the Messiah. I never contradict my Jesus.

          • Oboehner

            You have several times, which is yet another example of why women should be silent in the pulpit.

          • Bingo

            Aha, there it is! You have twisted scripture to suit your own personal bias that this has to do with the PULPIT. Paul was not admonishing the churches about pulpit ministry, but the congregation concerning meeting behaviour.

          • Oboehner

            “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” 1 Timothy 2:12 Aha, there it is! You have twisted scripture to suit your own personal bias that this has nothing to do with the PULPIT.

          • Bingo

            Your bias has to do with the pulpit. Paul already had women in leadership in the churches along with men. Did he contradict his own practices?

          • Oboehner

            Post chapter and verse that these women were teaching men or let that failed argument rest.

          • Bingo

            I use the same scriptures you do. Paul was telling the women to shut up and learn in silence, like the men had already learned. He wasn’t speaking to women who were already qualified by God in preaching and teaching and prophesying.

          • Oboehner

            Post chapter and verse that these women were teaching men or let that failed argument rest.

          • Bingo

            There is no desperation in me. I hold fast, like millions of others, to the word of God that Holy Spirit reveals.

          • Oboehner

            Then why do you ignore this: “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” 1 Timothy 2:12
            And why have you not posted one singe scripture passage to back up your fallacy?

          • Bingo

            Paul was talking to the congregation, not referring to leadership. Women were basically misbehaviing in this new thing called “church”.

            The fallacy is only in your misinterpretation.

          • Oboehner

            Post chapter and verse backing you errant claim or rack up another false assertion.

          • Bingo

            I don;t have to post any other scripture. Your lack of understanding about this is obvious, based on a rudimentary read, and not in the study of the word, nor in knowing God’s heart concerning women.

          • Oboehner

            I’ll take it you have no scripture to back up your fallacious claim then and admit you are in error.

          • Bingo

            All scripture supports what I believe.

          • Oboehner

            Then post specifics.

          • Bingo

            Specifically, in studying the word, I can say for certain that your reading of text has formed in you a false bias against women in leadership. Paul had many women in the churches he led who were in leadership, which includes teaching and preaching (under prophesying) of the Body of Christ—male, female and children. So, you are actually saying he was a hypocrite, discouraging one thing and then encouraging the practice of the same thing.

          • Oboehner

            You can say whatever you want, that doesn’t make it true. Like I’ve said before – post the passage that states women were teaching men. And no, I am not saying Paul is a hypocrite, he never encouraged that which he discouraged – only you have.

          • Bingo

            There is no statement that says that women who prophesied (which is part of preaching) or taught were relegated to ministry to any particular group. The churches consisted as they do now of all people. Paul was apostle over many churches, which included leaders, period…not just male leaders. He encouraged women to prophesy, and that means teaching and preaching under the power of the Holy Spirit, with rhema. Paul NEVER discouraged women in ministry. He did discourage poor behaviour as members of the congregation.

          • Oboehner

            “He encouraged women to prophesy, and that means teaching and preaching under the power of the Holy Spirit” More inaccuracies, prophesying (if God-sent) is God speaking through his chosen human vessel as in 2 Peter 1:21.
            “‘Let a woman LEARN’ is about LEARNING, and ‘in quietness with all submission’ was a colloquial phrase which was identified with students.” You are saying all students were female? Or that men can be unruly? Nonsensical.
            Still no biblical reference, just personal opinion – opinion that leaves out key phases in order to try and fit your square opinion into the biblical round hole.

            http://www.opc.org/new_horizons/9601a.html

          • Bingo

            God uses women to prophesy—and children, too. People who preach and teach are often exercising the prophetic gift. Are you the judge of who is going to prophesy?

            Men were not unruly because they had learned since children how to learn properly. Women were new at this “church meeting” thing. Are you not aware of that?

            The personal opinions here are yours, handed down to you through false teachers over hundreds of years, many of whom are sincere, strong believers, but are wrong.

          • Oboehner

            “People who preach and teach are often exercising the prophetic gift. Are you the judge of who is going to prophesy?” Trying the straw man approach to your fallacy now? Why not just stick to the text? Or post a reference to back up your false assertions. Lumping different subjects together just further shows your utter lack of any substantive argument, there is a difference between prophesying and teaching/preaching.

            “Men were not unruly because they had learned since children how to learn properly. Women were new at this “church meeting” thing. Are you not aware of that?” Give chapter and verse on that, then explain why the “until they learn how to behave in church” kicker isn’t in the text. Then explain why grown adults wouldn’t be able to “behave” at a meeting. I won’t hold my breath.

            “The personal opinions here are yours, handed down to you through false teachers over hundreds of years, many of whom are sincere, strong believers, but are wrong.” When the text is that clear, and you fail time and time again to post even one single passage to back up you extra-biblical feminist fantasy, it is even more painfully obvious that it is not me who is wrong.

          • Bingo

            Rather than be give you a whole teaching on the first century female in Judaism and in the early church, I think you ought to go and research it. It is important to gain a good understanding about many passages of God’s word in the light of the culture in which it is written. That, friend, is wisdom.

            You are guilty of looking at scripture and interpreting it with the 21st century vantage point.

          • Oboehner

            So what you’re telling me is that the Word of God, the God who said he never changes, is outdated. Or is it just that it isn’t modern enough, because we all know modern is far better with the break up of the family, rampant sexual perversion, dumpsters full of murdered children, etc.
            What I am guilty of is interpreting the word of God as literal and inspired by a God who knows us far better than we know ourselves. Culture is irrelevant, God’s instructions are.

          • Bingo

            It’s a convenient argument for you to fall back on, but no, the word of God is never outdated. You just don’t comprehend that some things Paul talks about are for his immediate audience. It takes spiritual discernment to make that distinction.

            You have been hyper-literal…which is a problem.

          • Oboehner

            “It’s a convenient argument for you to fall back on, but no, the word of God is never outdated.”
            I never said it was – you did.
            “You just don’t comprehend that some things Paul talks about are for his immediate audience.” Sure, that’s why “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”
            Answer this then (and don’t skirt around it like you do with everything else): why is it recorded in scripture if it doesn’t pertain to us?
            Your desperation to justify your disobedience is making you look the fool.

          • Bingo

            You just blindly flail away, but I have never said the word of God is outdated.

            Paul wrote letters. Everything in the letters is inspired by God. Not everything is explicitly for us 21 centuries later, with regard to cultural matters. We have to use spiritual wisdom to discern that—unless you insist that your wife wear a head covering to pray?

            I am not disobedient to God in any way, but you, sir have an abundance of male pride.

          • Oboehner

            The text had nothing to do with “cultural matters”, it has to do with God’s command that the woman be in submission to the man which is a theme throughout the Bible after Eve and the garden incident. That is specifically stated in 1 Timothy 2:12-14 “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
            “For a man is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man” 1 Corinthians 11:7-8
            Paul pointed Christians to the Mosaic Law that was 1500 earlier and a different culture: 1 Cor.14:34. Peter pointed Christians to Sarah, 2000 years earlier and a very different culture: 1 Pet. 3:5-6. Like I said, culture is irrelevant to God’s plan – human nature remains the same.
            I have as yet to see you post one single passage backing your errant claims, if what you say has a shred of truth to it, it WILL be contained in scripture; so please stop boring me with your feminist garbage unless you post scripture backing it up.

          • Bingo

            God doesn’t call women to be submissive to men!! He calls wives and husbands to submit one to the other, and the general Body of Christ to submit to one another as well!

            You need to become more knowledgeable in the word.

          • Oboehner

            Ephesians 5:22-24 “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.”
            Colossians 3:18 – “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.”
            1 Peter 3:1 – “Likewise, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands;”
            Ephesians 5:33 – “Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband.”
            1 Peter 3:5 – “For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:”
            Genisis 3:16 – “Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”

          • Bingo

            LOL! It stands that I don’t have to submit to any man—and not even you—but my husband, and any spiritual leaders god has placed in my life who happen to be males.

          • Oboehner

            It also stands you cannot teach any man – period.

          • Bingo

            I can teach whomever God gives me to teach. Period.

          • Oboehner

            Right, and that wouldn’t include men as clearly stated in His Word.

          • Bingo

            Because Paul was not issuing a for-all-time edict of God, I am free to teach all that God sends me to teach, and if men are in the mix, then men it is.

          • Oboehner

            God will not send you men as it is still clearly stated in the text that women are NOT to be teaching men, no matter what spin you try and put on it.

          • Bingo

            God will and He does send women teachers to men, and He sends men to women who will teach them.

          • Oboehner

            That is not a fact and proves nothing. He only sends women when he is passing judgment: “As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.” Isaiah 3:12

          • Bingo

            That is a claim from biblical stupidity.

          • Oboehner

            It is in the text, there is nothing stupid about it. Post a passage that states women are to teach men or be silent.

          • Bingo

            Further discernment and teaching is required for you who take only the rudimentary reading of the text to be what Paul actually is saying.

            I don’t have to ever be silent, and especially for the likes of you.

          • Bingo

            It is the actual inspired, breathed word of God—not the mere surface text that speaks with power and authority. Once you come to understand Paul, you will be blown away by the truth and easily reject what you have accepted as truth for far too long…and have done yourself and your dear sisters in Christ a disservice—not to mention your God.

          • Oboehner

            “I have never said the word of God is outdated.”
            “Not everything is explicitly for us 21 centuries later…”
            Still not one passage to back anything you say…

          • Bingo

            Spiritual wisdom is definitely not one of your gifts.

          • Oboehner

            I think you mean “feminist wisdom”, I can read the scriptures just fine – you know the same scriptures you can’t back up any of your feminist rambling with.

          • Bingo

            No, I mean the amazing wisdom that can only come from
            Holy Spirit to those who are seeking the exact truth of what He means and what He thinks…it’s unmistakable. I know the exact same scriptures you are leaning on, yet God speaks to me and millions of others of His great love and gifting of women, whom He desires to use as leaders in His house among His people. He doesn’t favour anyone over anyone else in the Body of Christ. In His economy, we who receive Christ are all of the same race, “Adam”—thanks be to Jesus our great Equalizer.

            Genesis 5:2
            Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

            Adam and Eve were created with God-ordained differences from each other, but together they made a full “man,” or a complete picture of God Himself. There was perfection in their union. Their differences were not a source of discord or inequality, but a beautiful compliment to each other.

          • Bingo

            Through Jesus, the curse upon women has been lifted. Women no longer have to receive pain in childbirth nor are they inferior to man with him ruling over them. Women can now be restored to their original place and plan that God had for all His “sons.” Although we do not see all things restored at this time, “legally” in the spiritual realm, they already have been.

            Adam was the head of the first race of mankind; and Jesus is the head of the last race, the adopted children of God. God only sees two races–the Adamic race (all natural-born mankind) and His children through Jesus (all those born of the spirit).

            1 Corinthians 15:21-22
            So you see, just as death came into the world through a man, now the resurrection from the dead has begun through another man. 22 Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life.

          • Oboehner

            Sorry, the text is clear – duly inspired by the same Holy Spirit you try and shove in your little feminist box. God gifts women, but most assuredly not contrary to what is clearly stated in His Word. You have made it painfully obvious that you do not have any “gift” that would allow you to teach anyone. I would seriously pray and really listen to what God says and not what you so desperately want.

            Genesis 5:2 does not state women should be teaching men. Try again.
            “their name Adam” – “Adam” and “man” are both translations of the same Hebrew word. Its generic use in this context would perhaps better warrant the translation “…and called their name man.” – Henry M. Morris, Ph.D., LL.D., Litt.D.

            “Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.” 1 Corinthians 11:9

          • Bingo

            God equips women, men and even children for His use, despite what you have been erroneously taught. Pray for yourself, that god would settle this in you once and for all, and for His humility, that you would be able to accept it.

            It is a blessing to see men come to this truth and in all humility, receive it.

          • Oboehner

            “God equips women, men and even children for His use, despite what you have been erroneously taught.” But not contradictory to His Word.
            I’m still waiting for that passage stating women should teach men.

          • Bingo

            If you believe that the passage, 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is transcultural then it does prohibit women from teaching men in any church, anywhere, at anytime. In fact, it even prohibits them from speaking at all. But if you believe the passage is cultural, then it is only prohibiting women in the church at Ephesus from teaching at that particular time because they were unlearned.

            Is there precedent for understanding this to be cultural? Yes there is. So then what is the transcultural principle that we can conclude from this much debated passage. I think it is this: Unqualified, incompetent persons (men or women) should not be permitted to teach or to lead the church of Jesus Christ.

            http://www.valleyviewseek.org/writings-paul-0/

          • Bingo

            You have no understanding of Paul. Sad.

          • Oboehner

            You put your agenda over the Word of God. Sad, not only for you, but all those you lead astray.

          • Bingo

            Nope. you assist the erroneous agenda of bias against God’s gifting and full use of women in His Kingdom.

          • Oboehner

            You fantasyland view of that which is clearly stated in the Bible is appalling and still serves as an example of why “it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.”

          • Oboehner

            Full use as he sees fit, not you.

          • Bingo

            Correct, so you need to drop the high-and-mighty male tone.

          • Oboehner

            You need to drop the “liberated woman hear me roar” tone and follow scripture.

          • Bingo

            That is not who I am. Jesus Christ has freed me to be who He calls me to be, and I follow His lead and not man’s…thank God!

          • Oboehner

            His “lead” is for you to not be teaching men, do you follow that?

          • Bingo

            That is a lie.

          • Oboehner

            Now scripture is a lie? Keep on vindicating 1 Corinthians 14:34 “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”

          • Bingo

            “…in Biblical Christianity, women can only teach other women – period.”

            That’s a damnable lie of the devil right there.

          • Oboehner

            I’ve backed up my view with scripture.

          • Bingo

            No, you’ve backed up YOUR VIEW with what you think scripture says, but not what God really says and thinks.

          • Oboehner

            Like I said, it’s crystal, just because you want to go out and play preacher doesn’t make it right.

          • Bingo

            It’s obvious that you’ve been taught the typical biased world view on these scriptures. The Greco-Roman lying bias has permeated even the Church. We have been given a revelation that should have served to change the world, but missed it.

          • Oboehner

            It’s obvious that you’ve been taught the typical biased world view on these scriptures. The Gloria Steinem lying bias has permeated even the Church. We have been given the word of God that should have served to change the world, but ignored it in favor of personal agenda. You know the truth as well as I.

          • Bingo

            Actually, you are still in need of a revelation from God in this area.

          • Oboehner

            I have it, it’s in the scriptures I posted.

          • Bingo

            No, you are still in need of a revelation of God concerning this issue. Remain open to Him and He will do it.

          • Oboehner

            Like I said he revealed his word, that’s as they say, gospel.

          • Bingo

            God’s word is RICH with layers and layers upon layers of truth. There is lots more for you there.

          • Oboehner

            Titus 1:1-3 – God manifested (make known) His word in the message which was entrusted to Paul according to God’s command.
            So God wants everyone to know His will, and the inspired men revealed His will so people could know it.

          • Bingo

            You are getting there, but no cigar, yet.

          • Oboehner

            It’s right on the money, God gave his word to be easily understood, no need to twist or dig for personal agendas.

          • Bingo

            It is obviously misunderstood by many. Satan’s great deception.

          • Oboehner

            You make that painfully obvious – the poster child for why women are to remain silent in the church.

          • Bingo

            LOL! Your commentary makes it so obvious how deceived many are concerning ow god gifts His children—with liberality and without favouritism. Your spiritual understanding in this area is an epic fail.

          • Oboehner

            I never said God doesn’t give gifts to all as he pleases, I am merely pointing out the fact that women are not to be teaching men – period. You make that case with every one of your posts.

          • Bingo

            That isn’t the truth. Women in the Body of Christ are not prohibited regarding who they can teach or preach to.

          • Oboehner

            That statement is contradictory to scripture, you most certainly can’t back that up in the Bible – just like you haven’t backed anything you’ve said to this point.

          • Bingo

            No it is not contradictory to scripture, or to God’s will for His people.

          • Oboehner

            Your un-backed claim does not make it so.

          • Bingo

            Everything I believe has scriptural backing.

          • Oboehner

            Post it, I’ll be happy to read it.

          • Bingo

            I am supported by scripture.

          • Oboehner

            Post it then, I have multiple times.

          • Madeleine Bryant-Kambe

            Who “ministered” to Jesus? The women.

          • Oboehner

            You actually believe that “ministering” in that context meant to teach? Do share what those women would have to teach the Son of God.
            They were merely attending to him.

          • Oboehner

            “teach or to assume authority over a man;” The big steamy pile of opinionated BS you posted fails to cover that.
            You are a victim of your own convoluted scripture contradicting agenda. Other portions of scripture also clearly state women are only to teach other women – period.

          • Bingo

            Neither must a man assume authority over a woman…that is the whole point of Paul’s admonitions–that all people remain in submission to one another without making power plays. Your male-centric view of the word is what holds God back from being able to fully use His people in the ways He is calling them. Such pride and interference in His will shall be judged in the end. You are one of millions upon millions who have effectively halved the Kingdom workforce simply by misinterpretation and lack of real Holy Spirit understanding.

          • Oboehner

            “Neither must a man assume authority over a woman…that is the whole point of Paul’s admonitions–that all people remain in submission to one another without making power plays.” Where is that found in scripture, 1 Apostasy 8:6?

            Such twisting and direct contradiction of His will shall be judged in the end like it states in Revelation regarding adding or taking away from His Word. And it’s not halved, it’s diversified – women have different strengths than men, as men have different strengths than women. Women’s strengths do not include teaching and leading men.

          • Bingo

            You simply need to grow up in the Lord, and that includes the regular asking the Holy Spirit for His leading in how to interpret His word. Otherwise you will continue in interpreting it with your fleshly mind, and getting the wrong end of the stick. Not only that, but you’ll perpetuate the false teaching about women being precluded from full use in ministry by the Lord.

            So far in churches that believe as you do, the workforce of the Lord is HALVED!

          • Oboehner

            Sorry, the Holy Spirit doesn’t contradict scripture. Women can preach when men give birth.

          • Bingo

            YOU contradict Holy Spirit. Women are commanded by Jesus to preach the Good News. Who do you think you are to hinder what Jesus has established in the world?

          • Madeleine Bryant-Kambe

            They were given the most important message to present….he is risen. And Jesus provided them the opportunity to present it. His male followers were too busy arguing over position, etc.

          • Oboehner

            That doesn’t give free rein for women to teach in church, sorry. The scripture is clear, no twisting required.

          • Bingo

            It’s only people like yourself with false understanding of the word of God who would dare to put reins on people.

          • Oboehner

            Do tell What this means then: “I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.” 1 Timothy 2:12 or “Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.” 1 Corinthians 14:34
            It’s pretty clear, no misunderstanding here, despite what you want to believe.

          • Bingo

            See below, also—another perfect explanation that you simply ignore.

          • Bingo

            Do you REALLY care to know? Your misunderstanding is of what Paul was actually addressing: unruliness. According to that law, ALL to learn in quiet respect—men, women and children. Paul was addressing the problem of poor behaviour among women converts.

            But, of course, because of the cultural bias against women, people have taken to thinking that women are precluded from teaching and preaching. Nothing could be further from the truth.

          • Oboehner

            I already know, the scripture is crystal clear in several passages.

          • Bingo

            You only THINK you know. That kind of pride is what makes this very sad…the truth flies right over your head.

          • Oboehner

            Nope, the truth is crystal.

          • Bingo

            That’s your perception only, but it isn’t the truth.

          • Oboehner

            God’s word is truth and it is crystal clear – women are not to usurp authority over men nor are they to be teaching men.

          • Bingo

            Your perception is clouded by a cultural bias that has permeated all cultures since the Greek-Roman Empires. It’s a demonic affectation. Usurping authority is forbidden for all people. When God places His righteous people in positions in the Body of Christ, no one has the right to remove them. Only God.

          • Oboehner

            “Usurping authority is forbidden for all people” Post chapter and verse or quit spewing unbiblical nonsense.

          • Bingo

            Paul was saying that the women who were speaking out in church meetings were not to usurp the authority there. No one is to do that, but it was women at that time who were problematic. It is the lack of understanding of that culture and the problems presented to Paul by the church leaders he was addressing that you are exhibiting. Your poor male view (that is sadly shared by women, too) is nonsense.

            You need to educate yourself and then revisit the scriptures.

          • Oboehner

            I don’t want your delusional opinion, I want chapter and verse in scripture backing anything you say.

          • Bingo

            Yeah, you’d rather clasp tightly to that tattered old security blanket. Well, you MUST make a concerted effort to know the truth God is teaching you by praying and asking Holy Spirit to show you once and for all what the truth is. There is NO other scripture but what He has provided. Your problem is infused BIAS.

          • Oboehner

            Your feminist desperation has you deceived. Just show me chapter and verse backing ANYTHING you have said.
            So are you a female “pastor” or do you know one? Or are you just going to dodge the question – again?

          • Bingo

            There’s nothing desperate in the quiet, confident knowledge that the Lord Jesus Christ has opened up the word to me, and to many countless others about these passages that are misinterpreted by yourself and far too many others because of a cultural bias that is centuries and centuries old.

            As for female pastors, countless women today are gifted with such a gift. Holy Spirit doesn’t check between the legs of people before He delivers such an anointing! However, just how many women are free to fulfill the call upon their lives? Certainly not too many, due to the pride of men and women alike who would constrain these people from doing what God has placed in their hearts to do. That said, pastoring doesn’t necessarily mean leading a church, you know! Pastoring is caring and succoring, and leading people in the ways of Jesus Christ. I have done pastoring in my past, and continue today, and I know MANY women pastors, some of which have a full-time ministry of pastoring and others, not.

          • Oboehner

            Still no biblical backing, you are a prime example of why women are to be silent in the church and not teach men.

          • Bingo

            Everything I believe is biblically supported. The difference between myself and you is that I have allowed Holy Spirit to open the word to my heart. You need to curb your offensive ideas and comments and conform to the word of God.

          • Oboehner

            The difference between you and me is that I have backed up what I know is true with scripture, you have just made stuff up. You need to curb your offensive ideas and comments and conform to the word of God.

          • Bingo

            The difference between yourself and me is that although we use the same scriptures, you have come to certain false conclusions based on simple reading but not knowing. Your human bias has trained you, not Holy Spirit, and so you offend God in them.

          • Oboehner

            Then post some scripture to back up your feminist ranting, then while you’re at it answer my question – are you a female “pastor” or do you know one.

          • Bingo

            No one rants more than you do about this. I have been in a lay pastoral position—a cell leader—in the past, and I know many most excellent Spirit-filled and Spirit-led female pastors…a great thing you miss out on because of your poor understanding and attitude.

          • Oboehner

            Figures, how about the scripture references, got any? Don’t bother replying until you do.

          • Bingo

            I use the same bible you do. God speaks the same truth to me as He does to you. You just aren’t hearing him because your ears are stopped up with a strong cultural bias that serves the enemy’s camp…not God.

          • Oboehner

            Sad you can’t back your heresy with scripture, ever consider you are dead wrong – or does your feminist attitude trump scripture? Talk about strong cultural bias that serves the enemy’s camp.

          • Bingo

            Everything I believe is taught by God’s word. He has taught me His truth because I sought Him for it, without any preconceived ideas, so of course He is right. You speak from bias alone, and it shouts like a blinking neon sign.

          • Oboehner

            “Everything I believe is taught by God’s word.” That must be why you have failed to give chapter and verse. You just keep demonstrating why God’s word said:
            1 Timothy 2:11-14
            11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
            12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
            13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
            14 And Adam was not deceived, but THE WOMAN BEING DECIEVED was in the transgression.

          • Bingo

            The thing is, I don’t have to produce any scripture, for the word doesn’t teach what you are pushing. I pray the Holy Spirit grabs you and gives you a real head shake, because you have a very poor understanding of the truth about how God equips all saints for service in His Kingdom. I am done with you and your prideful arrogance.

          • Oboehner

            The thing is, you can’t produce any scripture, for the word doesn’t teach what you are pushing. My point of view comes from Scripture, not the “Feminist Mystique” as yours does. God equips all saints to do HIS work, not what the saints want to do.

          • Bingo

            The thing is, your interpretation is skewed by an inherited bias. Scripture doesn’t each what you think it does. God equips women and men equally to do the same Kingdom work.

          • Oboehner

            No interpretation needed – crystal clear.

            “God equips women and men equally to do the same Kingdom work.” Unless you can produce chapter and verse, your feminist anti-God agenda won’t fly.
            I don’t know if you ever noticed, men and women are different.

          • Bingo

            Unless you can show by scripture that all the gifts and anointings are given out per gender, then you can simply go whistle. Both men and women are not different spiritually to God. You are living by a cultural standard. God doesn’t and the Body of Christ shouldn’t.

          • Oboehner

            I already have posted several scriptures stating women are to be silent in church, not teach men, or usurp authority over men. You haven’t posted one, You are living by a cultural standard. God doesn’t and the Body of Christ shouldn’t.

          • Bingo

            Yeah, you posted some typical favourites, there, and you haven’t a clue what they are really saying. You need to be silent and to refrain from usurping what God plainly sets forth. The same scriptures you use, I use, but by the power of Holy Spirit, His understanding has come to me and to many countless others! I live by His standard, while you live by a cultural understanding, which is based on pride. Sad.

            God’s word gives us many passages that tell of His precious gifting for the building up of the Church, and not one of gifts and callings for the Church has been assigned to one gender or the other.

          • Oboehner

            You haven’t posted one, all you have done is try to write your own based on YOUR agenda, don’t bother replying until you can post scripture to back up anything you falsely claim.

          • Bingo

            You and I use the same bible, do we not? I have no agenda, while you do…you seek to hold tightly to your errant interpretations to the point of insult. How sad is that? I agree with all Holy Spirit-inspired scripture. Pray and seek Him and His interpretation. One day you will see the truth, and I hope it will be this side of eternity when you do!

          • Oboehner

            “You and I use the same bible, do we not?” Then start posting.

          • Bingo

            YOU start praying and asking Holy Spirit to teach you.

          • Oboehner

            That’s what God’s word is for, try posting it – I’ll wait, post up or shut up.

          • Bingo

            I use the exact same scriptures you do. The difference between us is interpretation. I suggest you spend some time with God asking His Spirit to illuminate your mind concerning women. It will enrich and bless your life, so that instead of being so rigid and short-sighted, you will have the revelation of God about these matters to make you a real, whole person and not so divisive.

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            Galatians 3:28

          • Oboehner

            What does Christ’s saving grace given equally to all have to do with teaching in the church?

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            AimeeSemple MacPherson
            Kahryn Kulman

          • Oboehner

            The point?

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            Is that the only word in the bible?
            You must have oppressed a good deal of women in your lifetime
            The purpose of authority is covering and not accusation or oppression.

          • Oboehner

            The scripture is still as clear today as it was.

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            Aquila and her husband taught Apollos and he was a great teacher like Paul. Are you greater than Apollos?

          • Oboehner

            Give reference.

          • VoiceofReason

            You do realize that the text is the text of man, inspired by God, right?

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            Read bible history so that you can know the culture of the time.

          • Oboehner

            Culture is only irrelevant when one is clearly trying to twist the meaning to suit one’s own feminist agenda. The text is clear, and God’s Word is timeless. Women can start teaching men when men start giving birth.

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            I am not feminist but I am sorry for the women around you, without doubt they will be repressed.

            Do you know something about repressed people, when you are gone, she would be glad to be free again.

            I pray that God opens the eyes of your understanding because you also are in bondage.

          • Oboehner

            I pray that God opens the eyes of your understanding because you also are in bondage. The text is crystal clear.

          • Earlleo

            Crystal clear? You mean like Joel 2:28 ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

            The purest form of prophecy (my man) is to teach the word of God accurately!

            I know Peter and Paul both said for the woman to be silent in the assembly (during a timeframe where women were supressed, although it was without vindiction intended), but Joel said there was a time coming! And if the Holy Spirit gives a woman a message.. then bless God; let her deliver it!

            No one could’ve done the miracles of Amy Simple McPhearson, or Kathryn Kulman, or any other of the women who did them; if the Holy Spirit wasn’t in their midst!

            Oh and here’s another verse: Ga 3:28 There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male or female. For you are all Christians—you are one in Christ Jesus.

            If you ever need a miracle, then I hope that the only one God has to send at that moment isn’t a woman!

          • Bingo

            Amen! Wouldn’t it be just like God to send him a miracle through the ministry of a woman? Oh, YES!!

          • Oboehner

            I don’t see the part in which the daughters will be teaching men.

          • Bingo

            You have to remain teachable.

          • Oboehner

            By men.

          • Bingo

            That’s why you remain ignorant. We need to be teachable by men, women and children. God uses all.

          • Oboehner

            God’s word states he does not use women or children to teach men. God’s word does state however that when a country is under judgment he makes “women and children to rule over you”.

          • Bingo

            You neither know nor understand God’s word, for the exact opposite is true.

          • Madeleine Bryant-Kambe

            Who ministered to Jesus? Not the men…..they hightailed it out of there.

          • Oboehner

            The ministering you are referring to DOES NOT include teaching OR having authority over.

          • Bingo

            Another rube who goes by the letter but not the Spirit of the word.

          • Oboehner

            The word of God was inspired through the Spirit – and NEVER changes.

          • Bingo

            Yet you do not seem to grasp what the Spirit says.

          • Oboehner

            “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11-12). Inspired by God through the spirit, yet you do not seem to grasp what the Spirit says.

          • Bingo

            You are a complete dullard when it comes to the epistles. Women needed to be taught how to learn as the men had already learned proper learning etiquette from early childhood.

            Your fixation is taking you places that God is not leading you.

          • Oboehner

            Your making things up hardly indicates anything in regard to my intelligence. I have posted scripture to back up my position (and that of the Bible) all you have done is make unsubstantiated claims and epithets.

          • Bingo

            Quoting doesn’t indicate you understand what Holy Spirit is teaching you.

          • Oboehner

            Not being able to back up your fallacies proves you don’t care what God has clearly stated, hanging on your own personal agenda instead.

          • Bingo

            Your misapprehension of what God is really saying in His word is only made worse by your quoting it. It bolsters only your failure to grasp Him.

          • Oboehner

            “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” I Tim. 2:11-12

            Do explain my “misapprehension of what God is really saying in His word” here.

          • Bingo

            1. Women needed to be taught how to learn appropriately. They were new to Christianity and all the teaching they needed required them to be students. Men already knew that role from early childhood. Women didn’t. It’s a cultural thing. You seem to miss that.

            2. As for teaching, Paul was talking about a) a woman, not all women for all time, and b) no one, male or female, should be usurping anyone, which means a person wresting authority from a person who has been given it. But there was a problem with females getting out of hand by interrupting the flow of the meeting of assembly.

          • Oboehner

            Where is this crap found, 1 Opinions? The gospel according to Margaret Sanger?

          • Bingo

            One can easily see what your mind is fixed on…and it is not on learning what Holy Spirit is speaking. Language choice indicates a contempt that comes from a heart that is in need of His softening.

          • Oboehner

            One can easily see scripture matters not to you, your driving factor is your own agenda. Let me guess you’re a female “pastor” defending your un-biblical career choice.
            What’s next? Theft is ok as long as you really need it?

          • Bingo

            You are a judgmental, short-sighted and foolish man. My agenda is to live in the will of God and to please Him with my life and the use of the gifts He has given me to bring the truth about Jesus Christ to the unbelieving, dark world we live in. I bless and encourage the Body of Christ, but you appear to be drowsy and trapped in your cozy little sleeping bag with a broken zipper. You need help to get out but don’t know it, yet.

          • Oboehner

            You are a prime example of why women should be silent in the church.

          • Bingo

            Actually, I represent the truth that women can be used of God just the same as He uses men to preach and teach in the Body of Christ. You are catering to the false understanding so prevalent in far too many Christian circles that reflect the ancient Greco-Roman empires and their misogyny,

            People like you are easily ignored in Spirit-filled and Spirit-led churches. They eventually walk.

          • Oboehner

            I would walk simply for the fact you have not backed up one single shred of your feminist psychobabble with any scripture – you know the Word of God. Ignoring it and calling God an ancient Greco-Roman misogynist.

          • Bingo

            Yes, I know the word. The same scriptures you use to hinder people are the same scriptures Holy Spirit uses to free them. You ignore Him and remain in your false beliefs.

          • Oboehner

            Still no scripture backing your apostasy.

          • Bingo

            I have the exact same scriptures you use, but my understanding is correct and from Holy Spirit. Your understanding is clouded by your cultural bias.

          • Jim Tolar

            Oboehner’s mind is is fixed on the Bible… Your’s on your theory that has no Biblical truths… The Bible says the woman is subjected to the man….But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:3 YOU need to go back and read and ask God …not satan to give you guidance…

          • Bingo

            No, his mind is fixed on his church’s doctrine. We need to fix our minds on Jesus and His word, and allow Holy Spirit to have His way, teaching us what the truth is. I’ve done that, and I am grateful to God for it.

            Your interpretation of 1 Cor 11:3 is a false one, not understanding the full meaning of “kepha” in that verse, which means “origin or source”. Read it that way, and it will actually mean something.

            The source of every man is Christ (our Creator); the source of every woman is man (Adam); and the source of Christ is God. God is Three equal Persons, you know.

            Stop heeding doctrines of men and demons. Satan has used this tired old argument to suppress and halve the workforce of the Church for centuries, I guess the 21st century is no different.

          • George

            Oboehner is right. It is pretty clear in scripture that God appointed men for pastoring the church. Just read 1 timothy 3, it teaches on the requirements of deacons/elders, and it says that it is to be a man, with one wife etc. God created man and woman equal, but both have different roles.

          • Bingo

            No, he’s wrong, and like far too many people, is blinded by his own and man’s misinterpretation. Let Holy Spirit teach you.

          • George

            The holy spirit and Gods word the bible go together and do not contradict one another.
            ” I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” (1 timothy 2:12)

          • Madeleine Bryant-Kambe

            again…after the males took off for the hills, the women stayed and ministered to Him, helped clean His wounds, and loved Him…his male followers gone.

          • Oboehner

            Again: “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11-12).

          • singlemom_4

            The word of God transcends culture, glory to Jesus. God and his word is the same yesterday, today, and forevermore. Amen
            Hebrews 13:8

            1 Timothy 2:11-15
            Let a women learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and came to be in transgression. However, she will be kept safe through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and sanctification along with soundness of mind.

            Soundness of mind is so very important as is obedience which is the true definition of loving Christ–John 14:21, 23; 15:10; Matt 7:21-23, obedience is proof that the Lord knows us intimately, and bearing fruit through discipling others is how a believer shows that he/she really is a disciple of Christ (John 15:8). We know that Eve did not have a sound mind because the scriptures (NWT) said she was thoroughly deceived, entering all of mankind into sin because of her deception and actions, in choosing to obey what the serpent said, instead of obeying God’s command. Consider this, Eve knew what God commanded by way of her husband Adam, yet she talked with the serpent, listened to what the serpent said, and then set the serpent up as God when she gave heed to the serpent’s words. Rendering her seed (all of humanity) into sin and death and giving God’s enemy, Satan dominion (power) over the earth and it’s systems. Eve was a little too independent, relying on self instead of looking to her husband to clarify what God actually said, since God had already created the man first and commanded him not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Eve paid a huge price for having an independent spirit. Look at the order that God established for husbands and wives. God first informs Eve that she will experience pain in child birth, then he informs her that from now on her desire will be for her husband, and that he will rule over her–Get 3:16. Why did God do this? I believe Eve had established her own authority over her husband’s authority (see 1 Cor 11:3), and that is not the natural order of things, as the woman is man’s glory, not the other way around–1 Cor 11:7. Nevertheless, God in his manifold mercies brought his grace through his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. John 1:17 Because the LAW was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ. There’s only one gospel and one way to God and that is through the Man, Christ Jesus. I say man because of his humanity, indeed he was born of a women, begotten by the word and is God who dwells in the unapproachable light –John 1:1-5, 14-15, 17-18. Their is no room for feminism and the gospel nor should there be. I’m reminded of Paul when he said these words: “However even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally accursed.”–Gal 1:8-12. Paul further asserted that this gospel wasn’t contrived by human means in verses 11 and 12, but by revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ.

            Many of the apostles warned the saints about the teachings of false prophets and false teachers. Read the full account of what the apostle Peter had to say about false teachers here 2 Peter 2:1-22. If you question the validity of the apostles doctrine and authority, then you question Jesus acceptance and approval of the apostles and their teachings, since Jesus established them as apostles and approved of what they taught see Luke 6:13-16; 1 Thess 4:2; Mark 3:14-19 And he formed [a group of] twelve, whom he also named “apostles,” that they might continue with him and that he might send them out to preach and to have authority to expel the demons.

            2 Peter 2:1
            But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who brought
            them–bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. They consider luxurious living in the daytime a pleasure. They are spots and blemishes, indulging with unrestrained delight in their deceptive teachings while feasting together with you–2 Pet 2:1-3, 13; 1 Tim 1:3-11.

            I outright condemn and reject Feminism–it has no place in scripture, even Peter stated that ignorant (untaught and unlearned) and unstable people distort and twist the Scriptures to their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:16)
            As for the assembly of God, a woman shall learn in silence. If she has a question, let her inquire of the Holy Spirit, as He is our guide into all truth–John 16:13.

            It is disgrace and shameful and forbidden for a women to teach men in the general assemblies of God, as the man was first and it puts the women in authority over a man, which again is forbidden under the new testament covenant. I will also advise you that the Paul was instructing Timothy about the order of Worship. I presume that because the temples and synagogues back then we’re built on multiple levels, with the men being on the first level or second level and the women being on the upper levels, the women were causing distractions and interruptions in the worship service, as they could not readily hear what was being taught because of their location, so they would yell out to their husbands to explain what was being said and taught, and was causing great confusion and distraction. Therefore, Paul’s solution to Timothy was to instruct the women to be silent in the assembly or congregation of God. And if the women had questions, they were to wait until they were in their homes and ask their husbands. In worship there must be order, as God is not the author of confusion, but
            peace–1 Cor 14:33. You can read more about the instruction of worship in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter, as well as 1 Tom 2:1-15.

            We, as Christians are to live to please God, not ourselves.
            1 These 4:1-18
            Eph 5:1-21
            Rom 12:1-2
            Like 9:23
            1 Cor 15:31
            Eph 4:17-32
            Col 3:12-17
            Rom 12:9-21

            1 Peter 4:1-2
            Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God (1 Peter 4:1-11). God’s desire for us, of course is repentance, faith in Christ, salvation, sanctification–holiness, avoiding sexual immorality, serving the brotherhood, living a life that earns respect from those that are outside of Christ and the gospel, remaining steadfast and being on guard against erroneous teaching, and for us to be found spotless and blameless before Christ.
            1 Thess 4:3-11
            1 Peter 4:7-11
            2 Peter 3:1-14, 17

            Thank you for the opportunity to shine light on the gospel and thereby bring enlightenment to the facebook audience. May we allow the Holy Spirit to keep that which he has revealed to our hearts through the foreknowledge of the gospel of the Lord, Jesus Christ.

          • Bingo

            You have some distortion mixed with some good understanding about redeemed men and women in God’s economy.

          • Madeleine Bryant-Kambe

            Sounds good to me, and a whole lot less painful.

          • The Ranger

            Don’t feel bad ladies l’m sent to merely repeat what I have seen and heard from the Holy Ghost he is my teacher and he will be yours also if you let him. He can teach you more than any man. 1John 2:27″ But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him”. Abide in him, of course we can learn in church Sunday school teachers men and women just make sure your teachers abide in him. Amen

          • Bingo

            You’ll be feeling bad in the not too distant future if you don’t retract those talons about servants of God. Obey the word, and stop backbiting:

            Romans 1:29Amplified Bible (AMP)
            29 Until they were filled (permeated and saturated) with every kind of unrighteousness, iniquity, grasping and covetous greed, and malice. [They were] full of envy and jealousy, murder, strife, deceit and treachery, ill will and cruel ways. [They were] secret backbiters and gossipers,

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            Who has gossipped about you?
            Do you realise that Victoria is a teacher and you have spoken against her?

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            Sir, you speak as though Paul has spoken to you personally in a vision. The bible doesn’t say that the women had to be reminded.

          • Madeleine Bryant-Kambe

            Who were the first messengers of the resurrection? Jesus sent the women…sorry…they got to proclaim…preach the most important gospel….Jesus rose from the dead…Who ministered to Jesus? the women…certainly not the apostles…who were arguing as to who was first…….men.
            Jesus used them as the first preachers, didn’t he?

          • Oboehner

            Women were sent to merely repeat what they had seen and heard, hardly to teach.

          • singlemom_4

            Mary was bearing witness to the resurrection of Lord Jesus Christ. She was not preaching. The things she heard and learned from Jesus and the apostles, she learned in silence and pondered in her heart. She was a humble women and submitted to the authority of Christ and the teachings of the apostles. She exhibited a life of faith and unity and obedience. She was an outstanding women of God of precious and deliberate faith. The woman who ministered to Jesus in preparing his body for death, did so in passionate tears and love. She was not preaching in the assemblies of God, but reverently worshipping and ministering to the Resurrection. There is no competition or vainglory in Christ. We are not pitted against one another, but rather unified in this one fact: that He is all and in all. May God fill you with his love and peace and the eternal hope that he has won for all who believe in him.

          • Bingo

            Women are called alongside males with gifts of leadership, pastor, teaching and preaching, so don’t wax all poetoc about Mary Magdalene. She discipled and preached the Good News just as all the other disciples did….or do you think that there were only males in the upper room who were anointed by Holy Spirit to preach and bring in 3000 new believers into the Kingdom?

            Here’s some good news: Holy Spirit doesn’t check between the legs before He pours out His anointing. Good thing, too.

          • singlemom_4

            I don’t doubt that women ministered to other women in converting and discipling souls into the kingdom. However, women did not preach or teach men, as they were instructed not to teach or users the authority of Man. The early church was extremely obedient and unified in their purpose. They were not perfect, of course, as Paul’s letter indicates to the Corinthian church and others. However, their love for Christ endeavoured them to maturity in their faith, as in fact, their life and testimony exemplified the true Christian character of the gospel which is obedience to Christ, the living word and love and peace and unity of the faith in the fellowship of the saints. I believe that women can be used in serving God’s purpose in the order that the apostles outlined in scripture.
            1 Thess 4:2
            For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
            Propriety In Worship (God’s orderly worship)

            1 Cor 11:3, 7-10; 14:26-40
            Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
            A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.
            1 Corinthians 14:34-40
            As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored. Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But everything should be done in a fitting (decently) and orderly way.
            For God is not a God of disorder but peace. 1 Cor 14:33

            Instructions On Worship
            1 Timothy 2:8-15

            I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing.
            I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
            A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing–if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
            God values a meek and quiet spirit of a woman. Far more can be accomplished in his purposes, if we wholly follow these guidelines. One more example that the silent conversation is far more effective than all of the preaching that takes place in the pulpit when a women is preaching and usurping authority disobediently over men. Consider this text in:
            1 Peter 3:1-7
            Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husband’s so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give watching fear.
            Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
            I listed these scriptures to show you where woman’s authority lies in the church. I have an aunt who is a bishop, I dare say she is in error, for a woman cannot be a bishop, as she cannot have a wife, that is abomination. A woman does not meet the qualifications to hold and operate the office of a bishop. On this the word is clear, whether you agree with that summation or not is of no importance, as the word has spoken concerning this issue. Our lives are about serving God’s glory and his purpose. It’s not about our ambitious work, which is prideful vainglory; nor is it about us feeling good and feeding our own egos. God’s will is for us to be holy as he is holy and spotless before Christ in love, as we hold forth the word of life and truth, the gospel to the unsaved souls sitting in gloomy darkness.
            The Validity Of The Scriptures
            The word of God was not of Man’s contriving, but was given by prophecy and revelation of Lord Jesus Christ and cannot be undone.
            And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had it’s origin in the will of Man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 1:19-21

            Galatians 1:8
            But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
            Galatians 1:11-12
            I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
            Matthew 17:3-5
            Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus. Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters–one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”
            Psalms 119:105-106
            Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path. I have taken an oath and confirmed it, that I will follow your righteous laws.
            So what do you say, do we follow the word, or follow the traditions and rules of men? About women teaching men in the congregation of the Lord–what say you? better yet, what does the word say? Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God?
            1 Timothy 3:1-7
            The Qualifications of A Bishop

            1. He (not a woman) must be above reproach.
            2. Married only once.
            3. Temperate, sensible, respectable, hospitable,
            4. Apt or able to teach,
            5. Not a drunkard,
            6. Not violent, but gentle,
            7. Not quarrelsome,
            8. And not a lover of money.
            9. Managing his own household well,
            10. Keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way–for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of God’s church? 11. He must not be a recent convert, less he become puffed up with pride and conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 12. Morever, he must be well thought of by those outside of Christ, so that he may not fall into disgrace and the snare of the devil. The scriptures does not support a woman being a bishop, a deacon or a deaconess, as this specific title is not in any new covenant epistle authored by the apostles. It’s just not in the new testament. This is sound teaching and those who do not obey the sound doctrine of the word of our Lord Jesus Christ, are merely puffed up and understands nothing and has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words (1 Tim 6:3-5).
            As for the qualifications, there is no title of a deaconess, this is a tradition of Man.
            The scripture gives teachings on the qualifications of a deacon:

            1. Again he must be the husband of one wife,
            2. Sober or grave, temperate,
            3. Not given to much wine,
            4. Holding the faith as having a pure conscience,
            5. Not greedy for money,
            6. Ruling their children and their houses well,
            7. And not a new convert, as these qualifications must be proved to be seen in his manner of living. 8. Their wives (not a deaconess as the Bible does not classify this title and position), must also be sober minded, a) temperate,
            b) not slanderers,
            c) and faithful in all things
            (1 Tim 3:8-13).

            Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device

            —– Reply message —–

          • Bingo

            Your first sentence tells it all…you have doubt.

            It is in our redemption in Jesus Christ that we as women and men become as we were created: unified as one, with nothing lacking, nothing missing. We work together, shouldering the load, sharing it equally. It is Jesus who is the Great Equalizer. Holding on to false ideals is what causes the Body of Christ to weaken.

            You have become a victim of denominational teaching. Pity.

          • Madeleine Bryant-Kambe

            Whom did God use to preach His resurrection? The women…the most important message in History…He is Risen!!!! AMen

          • Bingo

            Amen, indeed! God makes no distinction! Leave it to even women to parrot the false ideas of men. Koolaid.

          • The Ranger

            Nothing wrong with women teaching or preaching if God calls them to do so. Less you would fight against God. Obey your calling ladies I perceive your discernment is the better! I do believe the Osteen’s doctrine is somewhere way out there in left field somewhere.

          • Madeleine Bryant-Kambe

            Who ministered to Jesus? It wasn’t the men, they fled, it was the women who cared for him and worshiped Him when times got tough.

          • Oboehner

            Did those women teach and usurp authority over him? I think not, sorry.

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            Am I in your church?
            Is she in your church?
            It is her husband who can complain that she is usurping his authority, not you. She is not under your authority. She is under the authority of Christ, her husband, her pastor and parents. She is not accountable to you.

          • Oboehner

            Are there any men in her church?

          • Sammy

            You are misinformed. She is not teaching Biblical principals to be a disciple. She is teaching self enrichment.

        • Madeleine Bryant-Kambe

          She is not a Jezebel. She has been a faithful and diligent wife to a pastor who serves God. I see nothing about Baal worship or other indicators of being a Jezebel…..She is pretty, charming and stands with her husband…Ministry is difficult in much smaller churches…Her life is in the spotlight all the time….very difficult.

          • JudgeRight

            I am sorry but you seem to disregard the clear false teaching she admonistered that “we believe in God” means we believe in ourselves. You see in her only the things that you want to see.

  • derrick disgruntled

    Jude 1 English Standard Version (ESV)

    I Jude, a servant[a] of Jesus Christ and brother of James,

    To those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept for[b] Jesus Christ:

    2 May mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

    Judgment on False Teachers

    3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

    5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved[c] a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the
    angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but
    left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy
    darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire,[d] serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

    8 Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. 9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” 10 But
    these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are
    destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand
    instinctively. 11 Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam’s error and perished in Korah’s rebellion. 12 These are hidden reefs[e] at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.

    14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, 15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” 16 These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own sinful desires; they are loud-mouthed boasters, showing favoritism to gain advantage.

    A Call to Persevere

    17 But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. 18 They[f] said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.” 19 It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit. 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment[g] stained by the flesh.

    Doxology

    24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

  • Michael Ryan

    Pray for her salvation please. Pray that her & Joel follows in the path of Jim Bakker

    • wandakate

      MICHAEL RYAN: Could you please explain what you mean by that…To follow in the path of Jim Bakker…

      • Michael Ryan

        Read “I was wrong” by Jim Bakker. (1996). I’m sure you know the story, He renounced his prosperity gospel after imprisonment.

        • wandakate

          MICHAEL RYAN: I’ll just say be cautious, don’t be deceived and remember man will fail you, GOD will never fail you. He may not preach it much or at all anymore, but it doesn’t mean he’s not living like a king.

  • Robert Joiner

    It appears that Mrs. Osteen is as skilled as her husband in ambiguous language. They say things that can be taken more than one way. Osteen has made his name doing this and fankly, most big name speakers do it. People may disagree with what you say, but with ambiguity you have deniability. Nobody knows what you specifically meant. If you read Osteen’s books, then you get a very different thing. You get clear language. He actually explains what he means. But on the Sundar morning telecast, you get a happy but unclear message, so that you can hear whatever you personally need to hear. This is their key to mainstream appeal. It appears not Mr. Osteen has used his wife to raise controversy while still maintaining deniability through ambiguity. This gets people arguing, blogging and just talking about them again. Osteen is yesterday’s news after all, he needs to do something to get back on the New York Time’s best sellers list.

  • RationalAmerican

    2 Timothy 4:1-5 (NLT)

    1 And so I solemnly urge you before God and before Christ Jesus — who will someday judge the living and the dead when he appears to set up his Kingdom:
    2 Preach the word of God. Be persistent, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently
    correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching.
    3 For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to right teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever they want to hear.
    4 They will reject the truth and follow strange myths.
    5 But you should keep a clear mind in every situation. Don’t be afraid of suffering for the Lord. Work at bringing others to Christ. Complete the ministry God has given you.

  • Mark

    This is exactly why woman should never preach. None of Jesus’s disciples were woman – for a reason. Paula White… Joyce Meyer… Gloria (big mouth) Copeland. The list is large.

    • Sam

      Women should never preach

      • wandakate

        SAM: Satan knows that. He knows scripture. He knows about the 10 commandments. He knows about women not preaching. He knows about all of it. Satan and the demons believe in GOD, oh yes they do, and they tremble. Satan has infiltrated today’s churches. This is obvious.

        • Sam

          They know the the whole bible word for word from the first page to the last page. Sadly it is very obvious.

    • wandakate

      MARK: Gloria Copeland married to the famous Kenneth. He flew to Rome to meet with Joel Osteen and James Robison and a Muslim Cleric and the Pope. They are all forming the One World Religion. The Pope says that we all need to come together under one umbrella and agree with our brothers. WHAT? A Muslim cleric agreeing with “our faith”. Never happen. BUT, this new religion Chrislam will come soon just before JESUS appears to raise the dead. SO, Joel and Victoria are in on that agreement, no wonder she won’t repent…No need to say more, just read between the lines.

    • Lena Auxier

      Acts 9: 36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.

    • Bingo

      Horse hockey. Jesus had hundreds of disciples, and many of them were women.

  • Linda Amsden

    Victoria leave the preaching to Joel you stay with your children ..please!!!

    • wandakate

      LINDA AMSDEN: In my humble opinion he does not “preach”, he is a super good charismatic “motivational speaker”…If he would talk the “TRUTH” of GOD’s word that would please the LORD, but he speaks something soothing which pleases the people there, but not necessarily GOD. GOD wants us to “OBEY” him and not man.

  • Michael Ellis

    The Olsteens are what Jesus warns us about more frequently than anything else in the New Testament: FALSE PROPHETS. Their deception and blatant misuse of scripture attracts tens of thousands of followers. Why? Because the Olsteen message has nothing to do with serving God and has every thing to do with serving self. It caters to our worldly human desires, its all about wealth, happiness, success, health, and feeling good about yourself (as Victoria Olsteen recently said, “worship is NOT for God, its for YOURSELF”). This situation was perfectly described by the Apostle Paul in 2 Tim. 4:3 “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their eyes away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” The Bible does NOT teach that God wants us to be happy. God desires a personal relationship with us through a saving faith in his Son. He wants us to be HOLY and experience true JOY (a big difference). The Olsteens never teach about sin, repentance, counting the cost in following Jesus, or what it means to be a true disciple of the Messiah by taking up your cross and following Him. While the Olsteens should be harshly rebuked for their deception (since they are claiming to be “Christian” and leaders are held to a higher scriptural accountability), much of the blame goes to their followers as well. While some are truly deceived, I think many are knowingly putting their carnality and selfishness above the true and living God. That’s exactly what satan is hoping for.

    • wandakate

      MICHAEL ELLIS: You got it all right down pat. I had just said that in a comment I wrote just before I read yours. They don’t talk about sin and how people need to confess and repent and forsake their sins. It’s a feel good, health and wealth gospel, name it and claim it, prosperity gospel package. Pick which one you like they have all of them…Their huge congregation will be so lost when the poop hits the fan. Read the other comments I wrote for more details on them. BUT, it’s lining up very close with what you have just said. Selfishness meaning it’s all about “ME”…Those people (the mega church crowd) are there because they love the messages they are hearing. They don’t want the real gospel about the real JESUS. They want to “feel good” when they go home. They go there to have that great number of teachers say to them what makes them not worry about their sins. He needs to tell them to REPENT, for JESUS is coming soon and if you are living in your sins when your time is up, you are going to HELL…Does it ever tell them the “TRUTH”, I have not heard it yet.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

    “When you come to church, when you worship Him, you’re not doing it for
    God really. You’re doing it for yourself, because that’s what makes God
    happy. Amen?” That sort of statement is a slippery slope. Yes, of course it is fulfilling to worship our Creator, however, to say that He wants us to do whatever makes us happy (which is what I think is implied by Mrs. Osteen’s statement) will lead us into sin. As a leader she needs to keep in mind the words of our Lord “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it
    were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matt. 18:6. Leaders have a double portion of judgement upon their heads if they willingly lead anyone astray.

  • Christine Bodor

    I think she just tripped it up and tried to desperately save it then knew she wasnt going to be able to save anything but say Lets give it up to God ! Because lets face it loved ones…HE is the only thing that could save that 37 second mess ! I felt bad for her…We worship God for HE is worthy of our praise…if we do it for self then we are worshipping self…( idolatry ) a huge no no ! This couple, in my opinion are just huge cheerleaders for the Lord…I dont really think they get The True Gospel out…its all about ” the feel good factor ” with them…but we dont go by feeling….feeling is the flesh and God does not want us to led by our flesh…we are to die to self and be of the Lords Will…<3

    • wandakate

      CHRISTINE BODOR: I just wrote that in several of the comments above. YES, you are so right. It’s about HIM and not about us. When we benefit, He also benefits. He looks down on the ones that are benefiting and giving Him the glory and then in turn he just blesses them all the more.
      He sustains me and blesses me and I think she messed up and will perhaps be more careful in the future even though she didn’t apologize publicly. They are two cheerleaders and their flock is not going to be prepared for diddly squats (the poop hitting the fan) either. They are not prepared for anything. It’s all about just hearing what their itching ears want to hear, instead of anything about Revelation or the Wrath of GOD. JESUS gets angry, it’s not all grace and giddy giddy feel good fantasy land gospel.

  • lanes58 .

    This was a very stupid, ignorant thing for her to say. The bible makes it clear, that we were created for His glory. We were created to worship Him, not for our own selfish motives.

  • David

    She did not say anything wrong. As a matter of fact, she was in the Spirit with an angelical appearance on her face when she said it. Like anything said in the Spirit will always have it consequences but praise the Lord for that. It happened to Jesus all of the time.

    The Apostles couldn’t cast out a demon because they were contending among one another.

    The Church needs to be united so Jesus can manifest himself within his body. If Jesus is inside of us, where should we direct our prayers? If he is inside of us, there is nothing wrong with directing our praises towards him within our soul. It’s OK if you worship with your hands and head lifted up, he’s is also on his throne. Did you know God has a need? otherwise he wouldn’t be in business. Yes, he needs that we praise him so he could manifest in us. For God, this is like food is to us. He thrives for this to expand within us. Not only but all creation does as well.

    “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.”
    2 Corinthian 12:9

    Who’s weaknesses is he talking about? OURS.

  • JCB

    Hey, Christians, quit looking at the speck in your brother’s eyes. Take a good look at the log in your own eyes. You are so blind. Accusing others while you are full of hate and prostitution. You waste time accusing and destroying instead of loving and building.

    Let those who are lost, be lost still. Let those who are holy be holy more.

    QUIT WASTING TIME.

    • wandakate

      JCB: Not so much judging as warning. We are to be watchmen on the wall. What did Noah do? He judged with a warning to back it all up. We are to rebuke and try to reach the lost if possible. Our time is short, and yes quit wasting time, night is coming as scriptures say, work while it’s still day (meaning while you still can). Religious persecution is here and it gets worse, and a day will come when we won’t be able to preach, or have Bibles out in the open. The church will go underground then. Christians are going to be persecuted for their faith according to scriptures, is Joel Warning them of this? No, he’s just saying everything is peachy peachy and fine and dandy…When the poop hits the fan that congregation will be so lost they don’t know which way to turn.

  • Frank

    “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.” 2 Peter 2:1

  • Robby Clewley

    I love Joel , he does not judge and just preaches God’s love and acceptance. not judgment and hate like most pastors and preachers.

    • wandakate

      ROBBY CLEWLEY: He believes similar to Jeff Prince. The grace only message. JESUS gets angry. It’s not all love and acceptance and grace, GOD is also judgment. HE will send every single soul to Hell for eternity that has not confessed, repented or turn from their sins when He comes back. He tore up the tables of the money-changers in the temple and He screamed and yelled and told them to get out, “My FATHER’s house is to be called a house of prayer, and you have turned it into a den of thieves.” JESUS got angry. On that day JESUS said many will say LORD, LORD to me and I will say to them, that only the ones who did the will of the FATHER will be entering the Kingdom of GOD. They will also so, “Depart from me, I never knew you. JESUS is a just and fair judge. He does not allow “any” sin in His Kingdom. He also said, that our names can be blotted out of the book of life should we deserve it to be. We are not always saved, He plainly told us that he can “blot it out” of the book. Plus our Faith without our Works is dead…
      These “grace” is king preachers need to tell people what JESUS said, and what He is going to do IF they do not OBEY HIS words. THEY WILL PERISH…But, it’s a feel good gospel of sorts and many won’t be prepared to meet JESUS when that time comes.

      • Robby Clewley

        Jesus is slow to anger , it is all about love and acceptance. Its not the be put to death that the bible says.

      • Robby Clewley

        God is merciful

  • Jesus is God

    OMG, that woman is so totally lost and what she just said is basically the belief of A CULT! The Holy Word of God clearly COMMANDS all mankind to DENY YOURSELF, pick up your cross daily and follow me. What that woman just said is no different than the beliefs Jezebel adhered to and true Christians know what happened to her. This woman needs to repent of her SELF LOVE, which is nothing more than a demonic lie from the bottomless pit. For they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and the word of their testimony, and LOVED NOT THEIR OWN LIVES UNTO THE DEATH! That’s a perfect example why the Word COMMANDS that woman should keep silent in church. REPENT OR PERISH!

  • http://www.remnantofgod.org John1429dotorg

    See the reasons why these “pastors” are saying these things in the pulpits…

    http://remnantofgod.org/near-the-end.htm

  • MO

    This mega church feels like it has been lost for a long long time. How many people have been lead astray by their false teachings?

  • azabigail

    She needs to take a serious look at the message she is sending, intentionally or not. If it’s worded in such a way that a message, that even slightly, leads a congregation down a wrong path of understanding, is emerging from it, she needs to recant the “wrong” message and restate it correctly. When I say recant it could be said as ” I apologize that the way it was written conveyed the wrong message, and was not my point at all. I didn’t mean to place ourselves higher than GOD, and omit or replace HIM as the focal point of worship, and then clarify what she really meant, instead of leaving everyone with the wrong message, or impression. Worshipping God, becoming more like HIM, in doing good and not evil, as in loving, caring for, and helping others, is pleasing unto GOD. So as HIS child it is a joy and blessing to know that we have made HIM happy, and because we are new creations in Christ Jesus, we have new unselfish hearts that desire, and are rewarded, by Glorifying our Father in worship, and in Praise. When we praise and worship our LORD, and by remembering, acknowledging, and thanking HIM for all that HE has done for us, beginning with giving HIS only begotten SON as a sacrifice for our sins, joy and happiness rises within us. To know that GOD loves us, and that even though HE is GOD Almighty, that we are so important to HIM that HE would do such an awesome, unselfish, and ultimate thing, releases a joy and peace in our hearts that surpasses anything and everything that this world has to give. HE gave us HIS SON, not only to save us but to redeem us back to Himself, “and” free us of the weight of the sins and mistakes of our past, so we can be happy and unhindered by guilt and condemnation. So in worshipping, praising HIM, and desiring and doing good, as obeying HIM, and in loving and helping others, we are greatly blessed with joy and happiness.

  • fred woods

    Now lets all sing the chorus. It’s all about me,jesus, all
    about me.

  • Gunner

    “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to upsurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” 1 Timothy 2:11-14 These lost apostates seem to think serving God is just a fun game. He does not know or understand the Bible. Plus he seems to have hatred toward the Lord Jesus.

  • Oundinna

    Victoria needs to spend more time reading God’s word than at the beauty parlor. It would really do her some good if she is going to stand in front of the world as a minister she should study the word to be approved by God.

  • Stevie Borkuss

    Heh…Prosperity preachers just like their catholic buddies have that amazing gift of seducing meta-language. Yeah…whatever you think I’ve just said you are right as long as you continue to follow me. Jehovah Witnesses have the same cheating sweet talk ability. Must be some demonic counterpart to God’s gifts. But they need to keep their membership numbers up. Truth would reduce such churches from stadium size to basement size. They know it. btw worship is done by holy heart not by fancy singing. Eh. So many false gospel versions…Only those who truly seek God can find him. Many forget poor Lazarus, his prosperity came after he died not in his lifetime. Jesus too. His life among sinfull disobedient folks and ruthless murderous clergy was one painfull experience. How much more was Jesus’s righteouss soul tormented by evil done among people than souls of Noah or Lot or other righteouss guys?

    • Thomas Collins Jr June

      Small point Stevie, among most Christian writing “c”atholic generally refers to all those who believe in Jesus Christ, whereas “C”atholic refers to the Roman Catholics.

  • John Doll

    These shallow empty feel good ministries will go by the wayside sooner rather than later and I can’t wait. I am sick and tired of the TBN mentality infecting the Christian Church. Joel and the Mrs. can be content in their 10.5 Million Dollar home and all the praise they receive from their congregation, but it is not this life that matters it is the next.

  • Bingo

    I don’t know about you people, but when I obey God, I am happy—which is the meaning of blessed. It’s all part of our Father blessing us as we walk in relationship with Him. Be careful about the mean-spirited criticism that comes to pummel anyone who stands in a large church’s pulpit, today. It is very plain to see how people have their antenna up, seeking even a slight foible of wording to lambaste and tear people down. It is the spirit of murmuring, and envy, and God isn’t HAPPY with those who harbor such attitudes.

  • bigpawn01

    those two are creepy and i don’t see how they manage to con people out of their money.

  • Rob Redstone

    He must become greater and greater, and I must become less and less.

  • Bernum

    They worship not God, but MONEY! To hell with them.

  • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

    Christianity is not theory.
    It is practical. Who says that she’s not holy?

    God is looking for worshippers not sufferers for your information.

    • JudgeRight

      Sistah, have you heard Jesus’ teaching “they worship me in vain because their teachings are just teachings of men” (ha! and women for that matter). If you don’t like my paraphrasing just go to the original, Mark 7:6-8 and the following verses.

      So what kind of a worshiper can one be if they teach about a phony god? Got an opinionated answer? Or you will send me again…eh, to do what to my heart?

      • Bingo

        Typical to employ “inclusion” when it suits one.

  • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

    36 seconds of a 30 minute message and we all her judging it.

    Jesus is Lord
    Get your bible and read it.
    Keep your mouth off God’s anointed.

    Cheers.

    • Bingo

      Preach it, sistah!

    • JudgeRight

      I just got my Bible and read it. Guess what I found there? In 1 Tim. 2:11-15:

      11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

      • Bingo

        This is the typical addition to any thread like this by those who do not understand that Paul was NOT making a for-all-time edict to the Body of Christ through all ages.

        • JudgeRight

          Can’t argue with a deceived soul that wants to be deceived. Not an all time edict? Did you notice that apostle Paul mentioned the order of creation and the order of the fall as his supporting arguments? You have adopted propaganda as “truth” against the Truth. There is no cure for that but repentance in ashes and sackcloth. Or following judgment.

          • Bingo

            You cannot call a person who has allowed the Lord to reveal to him/her His truth deceived. Judge righteously or be guilty of judging falsely—with pride.

          • JudgeRight

            “Partially deceived” then?

          • Bingo

            Every believer has some kind of wrong belief. No one perfectly understands the word. However, in this instance, that is not one of my areas of misunderstanding, because I sought the Lord earnestly for His understanding, which He so graciously gave, praise the Lord Jesus Christ.

      • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

        Was the samaritan woman asked not to teach also, how about the little girl who saved Namaan, How about Esther and Deborah and Ruth and Mary Magdalene who took the news that Jesus was risen to the disciples. In the eyes of God, there is neither male or female, drop your traditions and embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ.

        • Bingo

          Amen, and enjoy the freedom that comes with serving Jesus Christ without reservation!

        • JudgeRight

          They were not in place of authority over men. None of these examples you’re pointing to. Women’s ministry is not dependent on the class-struggle of women vs. men, pushed by leftists and socialist. “there is neither male or female” in Gal. 6 refers to value and salvation, not to the order of gender relations and even societal standing. Salvation equalizes all in the eyes of God, but that does not mean that we must ignore our duties as we are place in different roles in society. Nor the order of creation and the order of the fall. The masculinization of the woman and the feminization of man is the fake equality that goes against God’s created order. Christ did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. One that believes in Jesus does not become lawless because of grace, just the opposite – in Christ we fulfill the law Gal. 5 – However, two-dimensional Christians, duped by worldly politics and heretical false teachers, have no time for the Word rather for ready-made, cookie-cutter indoctrination, that includes feminism. Forgive my bluntness.

          • Bingo

            You expect people to ignore their gifts and callings. Holy Spirit doesn’t have to check the plumbing of the person when He gives His gifts. God expects all of s who have received them to use them. He equips us and He places us in our individual ministries, males and females alike.

            God will judge those who stand between God and His servants, hindering them from fulfilling His calling based on their false understanding, which has its base in pride.

          • JudgeRight

            It is my pleasure to stand between God and His “servants” whose service forwards deception through false, or none at all, understanding of His Word, nor knowing the power of His Spirit.

          • Bingo

            You said it all: “my pleasure”…boldly and arrogantly misapplying and misunderstanding God’s holy word.

          • JudgeRight

            Then “privilege?” And calling and responsibility? I just simply take pleasure in doing God’s will.

          • Bingo

            You take it as privilege, but it is pride that causes one to stand between the Father and His children He calls for His purposes. He is grieved by it and will judge it. You need to mind your business and do what He calls you to do and stop concerning yourself with others. He calls women and children alike to do His will, just as much as He calls males.

          • JudgeRight

            Why are you calling me to not concern myself with others and you are concerning yourself with me? So you can tell me off about my alleged pride, but you should not consider that exactly pride is the source of your acceptance of feminism and rebellion as “God’s call for His children?” The “holy word” that you’re calling upon is not holy to you. I gave you a clear example of the propriety in male-female relationship based on the order of creation, and the order of the fall, and clearly taught by someone much greater than me — the apostle Paul (and Moses, read it in Genesis). But you explained it away and brushed it off; you will continue to insist on your quasi-biblical propaganda anyway as your understanding of the Truth is polluted by accepting the lies of the world. For such as you Jesus taught that “they have ears but don’t hear and have eyes but don’t see” – Matt. 13:15.

          • Bingo

            God’s word is holy. However, people who are not holy have misinterpreted it by not heeding the leading of the Holy Spirit when studying it. What you believe is a tradition that has been handed down by wrong thinking people over centuries. I am grateful to God for His leading and teaching in this very area. why? Because I expressly besought His leading and teaching in this very matter. He answered my request. why should I abandon His precious understanding in favour of the false? No–I’ve come a long way, baby. Not going to take a backward step, now, thank you.

          • JudgeRight

            I think you should reconsider. In your post you are describing yourself. It is never too late to return to the truth. Often people see what they want to see in th Word…but either way we are running out of steam here and this a good place to leave it at that. Just mind that to love God is to obey His teaching.

          • Bingo

            What I have done regarding learning about God is what all Christians are called by God to do. Ask God to show you His truth in His word. Now, friend, it is never too late for you to begin doing that.

          • Bingo

            Doing the will of God as He has gifted us to perform it is a privilege and a responsibility—and it pleases Him, thereby bringing a sense of pleasure as a reward to us, and especially so as we observe fruit that comes from what He has called us to do.

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            There is no such thing as women’s ministry
            It is interesting to note that all the men of the town followed the Samaritan woman to meet Jesus.

            Big LOL

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            By the way, in the eyes of God, there is neither male nor female…

            Are you trying to tell me that you would reject salvation just because the good news is coming from a woman

            Enough with the, who’s in authority, who is not in authority. You have no authority over a married woman. She is only under the authority of her husband and her pastor, or a leader but not another man, get it.

        • MamaBear

          Except for Deborah, who was a Judge, a civil leader, these women were all witnesses, not teachers, not in authority over men. The Samaritan woman told her neighbors that she had met the Messiah, nothing about her organizing Bible study. Mary Magdalene and the women were witnesses to the resurrection, not teachers in authority over the disciples.

          I would be the last to belittle women and their role in the kingdom. Look for examples in Amy Carmichael, Lottie Moon, Mother Teresa. Sometimes God leads women to step outside their role into places men cannot go. Who better to show savage Auca Indians love and forgiveness than the widows of Jim Elliot and the other men they had killed.

          Listen to what a woman educated in the Bible and the widow of a martyr said about worship and then contrast it with Mrs. Osteen’s.

          “Worship is not an experience. Worship is an act, and this takes discipline. We are to worship ”in spirit and in truth.” Never mind about the feelings. We are to worship in spite of them.” Elisabeth Elliot

          • Bingo

            Godly teachers don’t necessarily exercise authority over anyone.

          • MamaBear

            Teachers of the Gospel have authority:

            I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 1 Timothy 2:12

            15 Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you. Titus 2:15 (Same chapter commands older women to teach younger women)

            Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same?1 Corinthians 9:8

            And finally, what is the source of that authority? None other than Jesus.

            for He (Jesus) was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes. Matthew 7:29

            18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Mathew 28:18-20

          • Bingo

            It saddens me the ignorance surrounding the scriptures penned by Paul and the authority of the believer!!!

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            So you want to draw lines and set limits?

            I am sorry, i don’t belong to the religious crowd of “touch not”, “taste not.
            I understand authority, I really do.
            I just sometimes perceive that it is used instead of as a cover, as a tool of dominion over people. God did not call us to have dominion over people but over the earth.

            Authority is for cover and protection. That is what I was taught.
            A woman teaching a man is not bad. The slave girl taught Naaman and I am glad he was humble enough to learn that she was speaking truth and to seek the prophet from Israel. She taught him dear (I want to repeat it a hundred times so that perhaps you would get it).

            How about Kathryn Kulhman? Can you justify that too?

            God’s ways are just not your ways, admit that your human can sometimes not comprehend the things God does, it will not always fit into your doctrine but it will fit into God’s word.

          • Bingo

            Amen, sister!

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            MamaBear

            With all due respect my bible tells me to go into all the world and disciple it. If I have to be a servant girl to Naaman, I will become. If I have to be a Deborah to king I will become. If any man thinks he is greater than the king and refuse to hear the counsel of a woman who fears the Lord and thus despises the message of the Lord, that is really too sad.

            If I am a Jael and I drive the nail into the head of the enemy, that is my contribution to God’s kingdom.

            All I see is the normal hate from people who believe women must stay in the status quo and not become who God has called me to be. You are not my maker. When you graduate to the point where you can create a human being, then you can be glad for the robots that you have acquired, until then, just obey God and leave others to obey God also.

            To everyone else your critiques mean nothing if it is not coming from a place of love, it just shows the smallness of your thinking, that even though you didn’t create the earth, the moon and the stars, you think you can control all things including the people in it.

            Imagine if you did create the earth, moon and stars, you would just breathe and change everyone into sawdust in your supposed righteous wrath,.

            BUT YOU ARE NOT GOD

            For that I am glad this day.

  • Bill Tree

    A person cannot love themselves more than God. If you put yourself before God then he will put you behind him for no one thing can take the place of God in your life and be successful. Joel Osteen should require that his wife repent of her statement and ask God to forgive her for such of a statement of pride. Pride will not enter you into heaven it will keep you out because it is sin to God. People have forgotten that you cannot live on your principles and leave the principle of God behind you it will not work it will cause you to lose your salvation. I do not believe that Joel wife understood what she was saying to exalt herself you can’t do that it will cause you to lose your salvation. I pray to God for all people that are ignorant are blinded by sin to acknowledge the truth and understand the word of God with a pure heart.

    • Bingo

      People don’t go to hell because of sin, but because they reject the payment made for their sin.

  • Jennifer Pruitt

    We all know who wears the pants in this marriage….John Osteen must be facepalming for Heaven watching this. God gets pleasure from us worshipping Him in a manner He finds pleasing. I’ve always had an uneasiness about Joel and Victoria…

  • Roxene Kimes

    Self, via giga-churchianity, *is* the new God. ( in spite, apparently, that God hates pride!) This is the exact reason why opinions (olsteen’s?) out weigh God Truth, and why absolutes have become so repulsive. (Posted by Roxene’s husband)

  • MarcAlcan

    Aah yes the slide into idolatry of the Osteens.
    Anyone would have seen that coming 20000 miles away.

  • Tabitha Sy

    The osteens are FALSE PROPHETS PROSPERITY PREACHERS!deceiving people in America & all throughout the world.this was what THE HOLY SPIRIT REVEALING TO NE everytime I listened to them…so nos u stopped listening to them coz my SPIRIT FIGHTS AGAINST THEM!

    • Bingo

      I think the spirit that fights in you is not the Holy Spirit.

  • Vito Zabala Halasan

    she talks for herself not for God…Biblically..Women shouldnt go farther as men do as leader of the church…

    • Bingo

      Many women go farther as God calls them than men and other women. BIBLICALLY, it all has to do with one’s yieldedness to God and Holy Spirit’s control, and nothing whatsoever to do with one’s plumbing.

  • Joseph

    yes, she does believe that and so do all of you….and North Korea is ‘tourist heaven on earth’, right? So there. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Joel and his woman are not what you think. They have no clue either except that they are pretty rich and being popular is their badge that says they are correct before YHVH Elohim, a name they do not recognize….

    • Bingo

      That’s just judgmental drivel.

  • Sharon McKeeman Himes

    These two people Joel & Victoria are NOT true pastors. Neither ever went to seminary school. They just “preach” what they feel is right. They know the bible limitedly and I could pay a mailorder price and become an “ordained” minister. All bullcrap. True Christians know to “test” a preacher by seeing if it is in accordance to God’s word.

    • Bingo

      What makes a “true pastor”? where is it said that one needs to be a seminarian?

      Preaching is not a pastoral duty. Teaching is. God gifts and calls people to pastor, and God is the one who qualifies the called.

  • http://www.mattsilver.ca/ Matt S

    Wow I couldn’t get past the first 10 comments on this page before I understood why non-believers would flee faster than a rabbit at a dog show… Such distrust, vitriol and hatred for one another… What an interesting cross-section of the church we have here…

    • Bingo

      What you are seeing mainly are those who listen and repeat gossip and those who refuse it. One is a sin, and the other is not. When people who claim to be Christians are in denial of their sin, you get a lot of heat.

      • http://www.mattsilver.ca/ Matt S

        Hey Bingo, I definitely appreciate your heart in this, but from an outside-in perspective I don’t see any ”winners of righteousness” when people have the type of words that are being exchanged here… Hopefully that isn’t representative of their everyday lives, but from a browsers’ perception it’s pretty bad on the whole of everyone…

        • Bingo

          Whenever you have anything posted concerning Osteen or any visible Christian leader, you are bound to get this kind of steamy rhetoric. People let godliness out the back door, and most choose to allow others to influence their opinions.

          • http://www.mattsilver.ca/ Matt S

            Up until 30-min ago I might have disagreed with you, but hopefully you can still see trace elements that believers can in fact be good to each other while disagreeing: http://www.christianpost.com/news/former-megachurch-pastor-rob-bell-tells-oprah-the-church-is-moments-away-from-embracing-gay-marriage-134264/

          • Bingo

            I see the same rhetoric there as I see here. Besides, I think that site is more heavily moderated, and people aren’t getting off topic as they did here. Generally, all over the internet, what you’ve witnessed in this “discussion” is what you get everywhere. It’s sad, I know.

          • http://www.mattsilver.ca/ Matt S

            Sadly my friend I’m at an age where I truly can say I’ve not only been all over the internet, but through many churches and communities as well… and though it is true when you say there is much despair in how we as a body of believers act towards each other, I think you miss the beauty and goodness that also occurs. As I mentioned, initially the other chat I was involved with (on Rob Bell’s most recent interview with Oprah) was quite civil, but it is a fragile gift that can easily be spoiled when men’s hearts are set towards being ‘right’ instead of being ‘gracious’… Keep searching my friend, I know you will see the same when you start to sow the seeds of peace & love.

          • Bingo

            Oh, I don’t miss the beauty of fellowship–in life and on the internet. I am a member of at least three excellent Christian forums where these shenanigans are not tolerated…not are they committed.

            One doesn’t have to have age to have been all over the internet, being a relatively new invention…and I am pretty much a senior! I know the fruit of sowing peace and spreading the love of the Saviour.

          • http://www.mattsilver.ca/ Matt S

            Awesome… Best wishes and blessings brother.

  • Jacob Muradyan

    fleshy teaching…

  • Tony Robinson

    Every knee will bow. The rapist, the murderer. The atheist. They will bow and worship God, acknowledging that HE IS LORD. Clearly, their worship, their bowing, their proclaiming the Lordship of Christ is not going to do them any good. It will not make them happy but will rather be a torment to them. They will spend eternity in the uncomfortable presence of God and experience Him as an all consuming fire. No, they will not be happy, but they will worship Him – albeit much too late. To ascribe our happiness as the motivating factor for God to want us to worship Him is to not understand the nature of God and the nature of mankind: the very nature of our existence demands we worship God and God’s very nature demands that we do – period.

  • Travis Keeton

    I think the ones always looking for something to criticize Joel and or Victoria and saying nasty things as if they are so holly and actually know more of what God is thinking then God does himself. So many times they quote Joel out of context.Look at the comment JudgeRight makes. He can’t use his own name and by the name he chose for himself is like he is the right judge. He needs to read Matthew Ch.5 Verses 11 & 12. Actually the first verses in that whole Chapter is how to make yourself happy because you see how God blesses you. That is what she meant if anyone looks at it correctly. Mr. judgeright, I suggest you read it.

  • LIFE – A Gift Divine

    Joel Osteen and his wife to me are prosperity preachers that have no business in the Pulpit. These statements are the very reason why people that are non believers would ever consider knowing Christ and that is the biggest wrong in the world today. Instead of being modest, he becomes ignorant. Jesus was pretty clear on this one:

    17AsJesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees
    before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal
    life?”

    18“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.
    19Youknow the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit
    adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you
    shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’

    20“Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

    21Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
    22At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.
    23Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”
    24The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
    25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
    26The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”
    27Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”
    28Then Peter spoke up, “We have left everything to follow you!”
    29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
    30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes,
    brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with
    persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life.
    31But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

  • staad

    the gospel of treasures on earth

  • Nancy Stokes

    These two people are false witnesses to Christ. They are in it for themselves and the money! They are what we are warned about: 2 Peter 2:1
    But
    there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be
    false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive
    heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them–bringing
    swift destruction on themselves.

    • Bingo

      Hogwash.

  • VoiceofReason

    What people fail to understand is that your relationship with God is a personal one and she is relating how she perceives her relationship to be. It is not right or wrong, she is speaking of her own personal relationship. If you are not feeling it the don’t but noone can tell her that HER RELATIONSHIP with God is wrong.

    • Bingo

      Thank you!

  • Willem Toerien

    Every sin (transgression of the law of God) has it’s root in selfishness. The worldlings love to hear how they can exalt self.

    • Bingo

      Yes, and it is the “worldlings” that speak in ignorance against the people of God.

  • The Ranger

    If this is your first dicernement that somthing is a little lop-sided with the Osteen’s.Then you may be pressing in a little closer to the mark of the high calling.

    • Bingo

      So much ignorance, pride and judgment…and complete lack of discernment. Disobedience to God in the gossip-mongering going on about the Osteens and far too many others. Mind your own walk.

  • Rebecca

    Victoria is not a pastor She is a Charlatan.
    Only God knows if she is really saved, but her fruit gives a big question mark to that.

    • Bingo

      Yes.she is a pastor. Is there something wrong with God giving a gift of pastor to someone? Where and what and who is your fruit, oh judge??

  • David

    Self is not on the throne. We are to “deny” ourselves. Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

    • Bingo

      Very true, but the message given was not about that.

  • Jackie Lassiter

    Wow, for those named Oboehner & Bingo commenting/arguing, here is a thought—why are you arguing & being so hateful to one another. For Oboehner, here is your Scripture: 2Tim 2:23-24 about foolish & ignorant speculations, & as to men and women in Christ…Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And one more is Colossians 3:11-14. I have no quarrel with either of you concerning Mrs. Osteen’s less than Biblical statements, but the two of you are doing nothing to further the Kingdom of God here–if anything, you are making the case for the enemy that if we can’t even agree or get along with one another, why would we expect to be able to convince a nonbeliever to listen to us? Colossians 3:13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you….Show one another the Love of Christ…God Bless.

    • Bingo

      Hey…I agree with God first, and His people, whom I LOVE! It’s when argumentative people indoctrinated by denominational teachibg try to stamp out true understanding of the word, as instilled by the working of the Holy Spirit…I stand against. Weaker sisters’ and brothers’ spiritual health is at stake.

  • Ed VanHalen

    “do good for your own self” because obedience, the church and worship are not for God as much as for self-happiness.”
    You have missed the complete point of the Gospel. We do EVERYTHING EXCLUSIVELY FOR AND BECAUSE OF HIM. It is by HIS GRACE we are saved, NOT YOURS.

  • Paul Q4T-(John 8:32)

    Self is the starting point then next or others.

  • bennyblack1

    I gotta say that if there is any reason at all for a person to worship God, it certainly would be for personal benefit. Paul the Apostle stated that exercise and a good diet are not essential to spiritual growth. He stated that in studying the scriptures and living a good life was akin to running a race and winning a crown of glory. He also said that we should run so as not to be disqualified. Paul the Apostle also stated that he wished that we would all prosper, as our souls prosper; because in living your life for God, there is the promise of prosperity in whatever form it takes. That could be monetary, health, gifts of ministry, a good spouse, home and bills paid. But, it could also take the form of joy and thankfulness without regret in poverty.

    God doesn’t need the worship. He certainly has no need for us. If Abraham and Moses had not done the things they did (Abraham obeyed God to offer his son as a sacrifice, Moses stood up to God and prevented Him from destroying the Israelites in their sins after the Exodus), none of us would be here today. We’d have been obliterated, and God would’ve gone on to create some other universe with some other creature.

    Mrs. Osteen is correct. We worship God for OUR BENEFIT. We obey His commands for OUR BENEFIT. And, our JOY (not necessarily happiness) comes from allowing Him to influence us with His presence. So, all ya’ll naysayers out there callin’ her out and saying that she’s wrong, need to chill out and find a hole to bury that bone in.

    • Bingo

      Thank you! You’ve presented a great explanation for the controversial comment by Victoria! Good job, and God bless you!

  • MamaBear

    All that we have is from God and should be offered back to God for His glory. Mrs. Osteen is focusing on self rather than God. Jesus said the greatest command was to love God with your whole self and the second greatest was to love others as yourself.
    I can’t find the quote, believe it was in Weight of Glory, but C. S. Lewis said something about God was more concerned with molding us into something good rather than our being happy here in this life. A faith that is concerned with our happiness here and now, will not bring us through sorrow, loss, mourning, disease, all the travails of this life. It will not teach us the deep joy that transcends those circumstances and is only found in giving our whole selves unconditionally to God.

    10 As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God’s varied grace: 11 whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God; whoever serves, as one who serves by the strength that God supplies—in order that in everything God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. To him belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. I Peter 4:10-11

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Amen, MamaBear! I don’t have that quote you are looking for, but here is one that is somewhat applicable to your point, I think:

      “Do not be deceived, Wormwood. Our cause is never more in danger than when a human, no longer desiring, but still intending, to do our Enemy’s will, looks round upon a universe from which every trace of Him seems to have vanished, and asks why he has been forsaken, and still obeys.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

    • Bingo

      Those who truly worship God for all He is and with all they’ve got will ecperience true joy, despite their circumstances. Osteen is not focusing on self, but pounting out the benefit and blessing that is God’s return to us for rightly worshiping Him.

  • Herb Planter

    Wow I have just spent like the last hour reading the epic banter between Bingo and Oboehner. Seems to me that if God wanted women preaching and leading etc. then he woulda put plainly that it’s ok. Bingo just needs to humble herself and not take it like it’s a bad thing. For men are no better than women. It’s just a petty matter. Finding Jesus is what’s important. The word tells us that men preach so we take it and move on and focus on the prize. As far as the article goes… well they (the Osteens) got alot more to explain than this screw up.

    • Bingo

      The whole suppression of women and how God desires to use them is a matter of pride for both men and women in the Body of Christ who think that God’s command to lead and preach is relegated to men only. How sick.

      • Phillip Stemson

        No, based on your various responses…YOU are the sick one. Clearly.

  • Phillip Stemson

    If there ever was a “wolf in sheep’s clothing”, Osteen would be it. They have allowed the new age, self idolatry to enter their teachings to the extreme. They are such a joke. Lovers of money and self…seems to run rampant in televangelism.

    • Bingo

      Why? Have to attended his church? What a load of crap you spew without knowing what you are talking about. How typical it is for people who claim to be Christians to jump on some silly bandwagon and wag their gossipy, evil tongues about people they know nothing about who are actually fulfilling what God has called them to. Are you? Or are you like everyone else—envious? Fulfill YOUR calling and shut the lip.

      • Phillip Stemson

        Truth is painful for you I see…you sound like a member of his cult church, defending these obvious wolves. Seek help.

  • http://www.InformingChristians.com/ DebraJMSmith

    Wolves.

  • Doreen Inesti Allam

    You meant exactly what you said.. You are a self righteous and self centered woman. You are one of the people God warns about. Wolfs in sheep clothes. Maybe your intentions in the beginning where sincere and holy, but you and your husband has lost it.. He said in an Oprah interview that he believes there are many ways to Jesus, but one way to God.. In another interview he and TD Jake’s called Jesus the product.. He is the truth, the way, and the life.. I always felt uncomfortable watching the Osteens. Help me God if I am wrong, but I think it has become about the money…. Keeping you guys in prayer

  • Madeleine Bryant-Kambe

    What is the problem? God created us for fellowship with Him…that means prayer and conversation. Our history is that we came here to get away from the lukewarm mediocrity of the European churches, and persecution. You notice they are as dry as a bone in Europe when it comes to God. And now we have new persecutors…..same silliness.
    But it was for the free exercise of Religion and Speech that we came to these shores (my forefathers, actually, I wasn’t alive.)

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  • George Jenkins

    Well, it looks like the devil has hijacked another debate about a critical issue. Whether a woman should preach or not is a secondary issue. The main issue is the New Age philosophy being taught as Christianity by the Osteens. It is straight from the devil

    BTW. ………….. those against women preaching in all circumstances need to read Paul’s words carefully, “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” Under inspiration he uses the word “I”, not “God”. They also need to incorporate Anna and Deborah in their theology