Christian Bakers Who Declined to Make Lesbian ‘Wedding’ Cake Face Bankruptcy Over Govt. Fine

KleinPORTLAND — The Christian owners of a bakery in Oregon state that they will be forced into bankruptcy if the government stands by its imposition of a fine in excess of $150,000 after the couple declined to make a “wedding” cake for a lesbian because they viewed it as a form of personal participation in the event.

As previously reported, Aaron and Melissa Klein operate Sweet Cakes by Melissa in Gresham, which is now operated from the couple’s home after the Kleins’ shut their doors due to harassment. In January 2013, Aaron was approached by a mother and her daughter as the two were interested in a cake for the daughter’s upcoming wedding—to her lesbian partner.

“My first question was what’s the wedding date,” Klein told television station KTW in Portland. “My next question was [the] bride and groom’s name. … The girl giggled a little bit and said, ‘It’s two brides.’”

He stated that he then informed the women that the bakery does not make cakes for homosexual events.

“I apologized for wasting their time and said that unfortunately, we do not do same-sex marriages,” Klein explained.

The women then left Sweet Cakes upset about the incident, and later, one of them filed a complaint with the state. The Oregon Attorney General’s office soon launched an investigation against the Klein’s as the state’s non-discrimination laws prevent public accommodations from being denied to any individual on the basis of “race, color, religion, sex [or] sexual orientation.”

But Klein states that he regularly serves homosexuals. He believes that there is a difference between serving homosexuals in general, and having to personally facilitate same-sex ceremonies, which is an act of participation.

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“I have customers come in almost on a weekly basis that are homosexual,” he said. “They can buy my stuff. I sell stuff. I talk with them. That’s fine. … This was not the first time we’ve served these girls.”

“We were being asked to participate in something that we could not participate in,” Klein’s wife, Melissa, noted.

“For me personally, when I would sit down with [a customer], I just would want to know everything about her wedding,” she also tearfully stated at last weekend’s Values Voters Summit about the intimate involvement she would have in the matter if she accepted the order. “I’d want to know about the flowers, her dress, the centerpieces, her colors, the way her hair is going to be. I would even want to talk about ‘where are you going on your honeymoon?'”

In January, the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries (BOLI) announced that it had concluded that the Klein’s broke the law when they declined to make the cake.

“The investigation concludes that the bakery is not a religious institution under law and that the business’ policy of refusing to make same-sex wedding cakes represents unlawful discrimination based on sexual orientation,” it wrote in a press release.

This past weekend, the Kleins told reporters that it they are indeed forced to pay a fine for declining the cake over their Christian convictions, the over $150,000 penalty would “definitely” bankrupt the family. The couple is currently appealing the decision.

“It’s horrible to see your own government doing this to you,” Aaron Klein said.

As previously reported, the Kleins stated last year that homosexuals used “mafia tactics” to force them to close their doors, sending threatening emails, harassing their vendors and ransacking their bakery truck as they packed to leave.

“You stupid Bible-thumping, hypocritical [expletive],” one email read. “I hope your kids get really, really sick and you go out of business.”

“Here’s hoping you go out of business, you bigot,” wrote another. “Enjoy Hell.”

But the Klein’s vowed to continue to stand, giving glory to God in a note that they affixed to the bakery as they closed down last September and moved the business to their home.

“This fight is not over. We will continue to stand strong,” it read. “The Lord is good and we will continue to serve Him with all our heart.”

Editor’s Note: Those who wish to support Sweet Cakes by Melissa by ordering from their business may do so by visiting their website here


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  • C.P. Steinmetz

    If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.

    • david ramseur

      The only crime done was the doing away with of the couple’s natural rights to free speech and freedom to express their religious beliefs.

      • Pollos Hermanos

        Bzzzt, sorry, wrong answer. The courts determined that non-discrimination laws were constitutional decades ago.

        If you want a business license, follow the rules.

        • Bruce Morrow

          So SERVE me! I oppose so-called “same-sex” marriage!

          • Pollos Hermanos

            Oppose it all you want. Don’t marry anyone of the same sex.

            Just don’t expect to maintain a business license if you can’t follow the rules.

          • The Last Trump

            And don’t dare voice your opinion either. Just ask Phil from Duck Dynasty and any number of other victims who committed the “crime” of having their own opinions and lost their jobs because of it. Freedom of speech! What a joke.

          • Pollos Hermanos

            Free market. Why do you hate our market system?

          • The Last Trump

            Free speech. Why do you hate free speech?

          • Pollos Hermanos

            Cakes aren’t speech. Sorry, you’ll get laughed out of court on that one.

          • The Last Trump

            ?? Confused much? Cakes aren’t speech? Well I have to give you that! So far that’s the most accurate thing you’ve said. However, you asked me why I hated free market system (which I never said I did). Trying to destroy someone’s career because they believe a man should love a woman and raise a family has absolutely nothing to do with free market. My comment was about those victims of LGBT intolerance and bullying for simply giving their opinion (FREE SPEECH). But yes, cakes are not speech…very true…!?

          • Pollos Hermanos

            The state is enforcing their law. The market is taking care of her business.

            She decided to make an unpopular and illegal choice to not serve certain customers and a lot of people stopped buying her goods.

        • david ramseur

          I do not believe that homosexual behavior is good. I believe very strongly that it is bad behavior, destructive to both the individual and the society that we live in. Looks like I am not allowed to own my own business or become an entrepreneur in today’s America. Well, America used to be the land of the free. We used to have a free enterprise system. We prospered because individuals were given the opportunity to start ventures and control them with flexibility and little to no interference from the government. Now however, the government is a bully. Political correctness has shackled the American people. We are losing power and influence at an increasing rate. Our morality is being lost along with our natural God given rights. These impact our economic strength which in turn impacts our military strength. The domino’s are falling and will not stop until we are a weak and defenseless nation, suffering moral anarchy, governed by a brutal tyrant.

          • Pollos Hermanos

            Yeah, a lot of people felt that way about Jews and wouldn’t serve them.

            It’s just as illegal.

      • Bruce Morrow

        Agreed! Understand that we are living in the last days and as our own nation continues to slide deeper and deeper into sin, this sort of thing will unfortunately be the case with those who refuse to compromise the clear teachings of the Bible.

        • James Grimes

          The Useless stalking this site don’t realize how important Christian principles are to believers. Actually, how could they possibly understand?

      • BarkingDawg

        What about the customers right to not be discriminated against?

        • penguincompassion

          Many customers around the country have been shunned by business owners for no apparent reason. I’m one of them. I went to a place to by a soda and was hot and sweaty. I walked some time and the temp. outside must’ve been over 90 degrees. Guess the person behind the register thought I didn’t match for their business and told me that they wouldn’t serve me…likely on the condition of how I looked…tired and out-of-sorts. I just shrugged, left and went to a different business who did offer me a soda. They lost a customer and I gave them a bad report. Other than that, I just let it drop.

        • david ramseur

          The right to not be discriminated against should not be tied to changeable behavior. But even if it is, that right does not trump the rights established in the 1st amendment of freedom of religious expression and of speech. If a lesbian couple gets turned away they can go seek out a business owner who does share their view on marriage. How does the free enterprise economy of America remain free if business owners cannot run their businesses according to their sincerely held beliefs about what is right and wrong?

          • BarkingDawg

            And how do you know that homosexuality is “changeable behavior?”

            When did you change back to being straight?

          • david ramseur

            As a matter of fact it is based on personal experience. Shamefully, I must admit that I experimented with homosexuality as a teenager. The guilt was crushing. I do not speak about this with anybody who I personally know because of how ashamed I am of that time. However, I know that I have been forgiven and made new in Christ Jesus. It is most assuredly changeable behavior.

          • 211Nickey

            “experimented with homosexuality”

            I love how your acting like this is not a completely natural process and everybody who is gay is genetically changed or something.

          • david ramseur

            Genetics does not point to homosexuality being an inborn, natural trait. It is a stronghold of the mind. It is a delusion that is against nature. It is brought about by many different environmental factors. There is hope in Jesus to be freed from it.

          • 211Nickey

            Yeah, Jesus is the one stopping you from being straight again, Keep thinking that.

          • david ramseur

            Your post makes no sense. 1.) Every person is fearfully and wonderfully made by God in His image. They have a purpose for their lives. In regards to sex, males were made to have marital sex with females. 2.) The corruption of sin and its effects in the world confuse God’s purpose for our lives and people give themselves over to unnatural lusts and delusions. 3.) Jesus saves men from eternal condemnation and delivers them from the shackles of sin that have ensnared them by what He did on the cross.

          • 211Nickey

            So fill me in: What does the bible say if you don’t think God or Jesus is real? What happens other then “you go to hell”?

          • david ramseur

            There is no other option. Those who refuse to acknowledge Jesus as their creator, sustainer, and savior will have volunteered themselves for Hell. The truth is objective and absolute. It stands whether you bring yourself to accept it or not. God does not want any to perish. He will not take away the dignity of them being able to choose though. There will be no excuse at the judgment for anyone who has refused to accept the salvation of Jesus Christ.

          • 211Nickey

            Okay, Why is the whole universe the same age as the Earth in the Bible? Why was the universe created just for Earth? And what about this: “And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four cornors of the earth.”

    • Bruce Morrow

      This shews that being a believer in Jesus (in the State of Oregon) one has to compromise their Biblical beliefs. This couple stood fast in the face of government persecution.

      • Pollos Hermanos

        Yep, just like those biblical believers in the South were forced by the same non-discrimination laws to allow different races in their stores.

        • bowie1

          They still served homosexuals in previous sales.

          • Pollos Hermanos

            Doesn’t matter, if they sell wedding cakes, they must sell them to all customers, not just the ones they approve of.

            Such a lot of fuss over flour, eggs, sugar and frosting.

          • BarkingDawg

            But it’s very special frosting.

          • The Last Trump

            Nonsense. People can sell to whoever they wish. Or not. It’s their choice to lose potential sales if they decide. Nobody can make you sell something to someone if you don’t want to. Ridiculous liberal nonsense.

          • Pollos Hermanos

            Care to check the legal precedent on that?

          • The Last Trump

            There is no legal precedent on common sense. You either have it or you don’t.

          • Pollos Hermanos

            And you obviously don’t

          • The Last Trump

            Well I guess you proved that!

          • suzyqzqzqz

            Many of you miss the entire intended point of the overall picture of what is happening here. This country has systematically, purposefully and has been nearly completely demoralized. It has been a long, slow process, necessary for changing this country from a republic into something where little freedom will exist for the most anyone.

            And the most inconspicuous of this process has been the necessity of the so called ‘useful idiots’. Certain groups, civil and social rights proponents, – they are instrumental in the process of the subversion only to
            destabilize the nation. When the job is completed, they are not needed
            anymore. They know too much. Some of them, when they get disillusioned, when they
            see these socialists come to power, they get offended. They think
            that THEY and their like-minded, instead, will come to power. That will never happen, of course. They
            will be lined up along the wall and shot. But, they in turn, may turn into the
            most bitter enemies of socialists when they come to power.

            Simply put, because of the psychological shock of what they will see in the future –
            what the beautiful society of EQUALITY and SOCIAL JUSTICE means in
            practice, obviously, they will revolt. They will be very unhappy,
            frustrated people and the socialist regime does not tolerate
            these people. Obviously, they will join the ranks of the dissenters –
            the dissidents.

            Of course, they – you who are being used as pawns – won’t believe a word of this. Even if you were shown photos and shown in black and white how this happens, you won’t believe it for anything. Also, when it happens, there won’t be anywhere else in this world to defect to. This is the last great country standing.

            The destablization is almost complete and soon top dogs will not care about your ideas and the pattern of
            your consumption, whether you eat junk food and get fat and flabby
            doesn’t matter anymore. Crisis comes after, and that will take a country to its knees in a few short weeks. Are you prepared for those not too distant days?

            So, just go ahead and praise these laws and support them. You are just digging, or rather, bridging yourselves closer and closer to that inevitable day. Look at the bright side, you’re making history, you’ve looked for change. It’s here.

          • penguincompassion

            Not if it goes against their religious beliefs. I don’t care if the owners were Christians, Muslims, or what have you, nobody has the right to force their opinions on the owners either. If they didn’t like it, there were other bakeries in the area I’m sure that would’ve proudly served them.

          • Pollos Hermanos

            So in your studied legal opinion, Southern Baptists in the South had a right to refuse “colored” customers then. It’s the same law.

          • penguincompassion

            No it’s not the same law. Why? Blacks and other minorities and women are born that way. That’s their genetics. It’s not a choice and me along with many other people would be here against the Kleins or anybody else if they desired to decline service to anybody regarding race or gender.

            Homosexuality is not any race or gender, but a choice. Man made laws made it possible for people of the same-sex to marry. So, those defending same-sex unions and are calling it discrimination to not serve them are wrong. Getting married to the same sex is not the same as being born black.

          • Pollos Hermanos

            The same law also covers the choice of religion. You’re arguing something that has been settled for decades. You just want special rights to discriminate against people you don’t like and it’s not gonna happen.

          • Liberal in Vermont

            OK, so let me get this straight (no pun intended), if sexual orientation is a choice, when did you choose to become heterosexual?

          • LoveJesus

            Being homosexual is a choice that is deviant. We are born as heterosexuals but as usual man does whatever he pleases and changes things.

          • Liberal in Vermont

            I would tell you to use your computer and do some scientific research on the subject, but I forgot, you don’t believe in science.

          • T C

            And you don’t believe in the Bible.

          • Liberal in Vermont

            Everyone interprets the bible in their own way. It is written in words from so long ago that meanings have changed over generations and generations. It’s almost impossible to really understand the bible. I believe in God and that is what is important to me.

          • http://www.thelighterburden.blogspot.com Tani C

            No the Bible is not impossible to understand. You must first be born-again as it says unless you have the mind of Christ spiritual things cannot be discerned.1 Cor 2:14 “The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.” You say you believe in God, but which one? Where do you get your information regarding this “god”? You believe in god, but rather than leaving it at “….that is what is important to me”, you should rather want the truth about God.

          • Liberal in Vermont

            Born-again on December 24, 1974. Baptized at Calvary Assembly of God in Orlando Florida, shortly thereafter. Went to church twice on Sunday and every Wednesday evening. Went to Bible Study. The bible is still hard to understand and subject to interpretation.

          • T C

            And yet you hold to beliefs that are absolutely contrary to a Bible believing Christian. I think you are confused, and well, you so much as admit it. Just because you think it’s hard to understand doesn’t mean it is. Jesus said even a child can understand being Born-Again. It’s not about checking off your list; i.e., went to church 3 x’s a week, prayed everyday…that’s not what makes us a Christian. It’s about having a new heart and being completely changed from the inside out. I would re-visit your so-called conversion and ask God to show you how to interpret the Bible.

          • T C

            Everyone has a choice in who they engage with sexually.

          • Liberal in Vermont

            Bingo! Everyone has their right to choose. And people who are born homosexual now have that choice. Please do some research.

          • T C

            2 Pet 2:12 says, “But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.” It can be argued that homosexuality, or the desire for the same sex is nothing more than a creature-ly instinct, not originating from God. For it goes against everything in the natural world; they can’t procreate, they have an unusually high rate of drug abuse, alcoholism, STD’s, mental illness, not to mention AIDS which is a death sentence, and suicide. Not a lifestyle that most people would even entertain. So by choice they should abstain from any sexual contact with anyone of the same sex and should instead embrace their God-given sexuality which is meant for the opposite sex and express it only within the context of marriage. You are a blasphemer, an unreasoning animal and will perish just like an animal. Time to turn to the true God.

          • Liberal in Vermont

            Who are “these people”. And FYI, I can’t procreate (sterile) drug abuse is rampant among all people, white, black, christian, etc…I don’t know one homosexual (and I know my share) that abuses drugs or alcohol, has STD’s or mental illness and AIDS in the US has pretty much been under control for some time. For these people their “God Given” sexuality is homosexuality and, no, why would people choose a lifestyle of discrimination and damnation. It’s not because they chose this lifestyle, they were born that way, just like God’s other children. Please get your head our of the dark ages.

          • T C

            These people (or some of them), 2 Pet 2:6, “If he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly….” That’s who. And anyone who blasphemes God. So what if you’re sterile. If you are a man then you were created to procreate with a woman. Just because you are sterile doesn’t mean you never had or don’t have the physical make-up of being able to procreate. Homosexuals never had the ability and never will. It’s physically impossible. Sure drug abuse is rampant amongst the general population, but you clearly missed my point — homo’s have a much “higher” rate. And higher rate of all the things I mentioned. Do your research. You ask why would anyone choose a lifestyle of discrimination — you’re reading the post of one right now. I am a Christian and I am choosing a belief system that I am guaranteed to receive discrimination for and to be vilified and mocked, just like Jesus was. I am not in the dark ages, I am fully enlightened by the Spirit of the Living God. You should come out of the dark of your darkened mind because you love wickedness rather than righteousness.

          • Liberal in Vermont

            Just to clarify I am the woman…And we shall have to agree to disagree. My head hurts…

          • T C

            I can imagine that it does.

          • T C

            They ALWAYS had a choice. They were sleeping with anyone they wanted as much as they wanted. Now they just want their perversion to be accepted by mainstream society, probably because it makes them feel better, as in it eases their conscience.

          • Alvin Chipmunk

            I chose to become heterosexual since my childhood. The point is that it’s a choice and one is not born that way.

    • BarkingDawg

      Keep your eye on the sparrow
      When the going gets narrow

  • James Grimes

    $150,000 seems more like retribution than government fair play. I’m sure many people are pleased about the possibility of bankruptcy. When the government punishes hard working people to demonstrate its power., then something needs to change.

    • Beth St George

      The same penalties are in place for companies that discriminate based on race, gender, religion, nationality, etc… Do you have a point?

    • 211Nickey

      They broke the law.

      • James Grimes

        I’m not interested.

        • 211Nickey

          Okay then. Lets all go murder some people then.

          • James Grimes

            How long have you been an idiot?

          • 211Nickey

            They rejected service of someone who wanted a wedding cake. Something so little as a wedding cake. You are the idiot here for being so blind.

          • DuneDude

            Looking for friends you own age who are also idiots?

          • The Last Trump

            “It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth” Isaiah 40:22. Might want to give it a read through before commenting on it. Just a thought.

          • SashaC

            Circle, not sphere. You understand that a circle is 2-D, or flat, don’t you? Nice job proving Nickey correct, though. You may want to go back to grade school before commenting. Just a thought.

          • The Last Trump

            I should have known. Wouldn’t matter what the good book said, you’d find something mundane to bicker about. Incidentally, have a look at some pictures of the Earth from space and describe the shape you see. Regardless, nowhere in the Bible is the Earth described as flat. As a matter of fact, unlike every other religion and ancient “scientific” theory, only the Bible taught that the Earth was suspended on nothing in space and travelled in a circuit. But don’t take my word for it. Try reading the book.

          • SashaC

            Yes, that’s it. Quickly and clumsily downplay the fact that you just quoted the relevant scripture and made the argument against yourself. I’m certain no one has noticed. 😉

            When I look at pictures of the earth I see a 2-D representation of something that I know to be 3-D. That’s kind of how photos work. I would still describe it as a sphere, because I know that it is…unlike the men who wrote the bible.

          • The Last Trump

            Made the argument against myself? ?? Soooooo……if somebody says “circle” to describe a round shape you automatically assume flat. I guess tennis balls are flat where you’re from. Maybe the scripture reference was too wordy for you. Let me break it down into simple terms. The “He” is God, see. And He is situated outside of, and beyond the Earth. He “sits” above the “circle” of the Earth. Doesn’t have to be a picture. If you look at the Earth from space what do you see? I’ll give you a hint…it’s not a sphere! You see, it’s just a simple point of reference statement. And a circle, now get this, means round. Please forgive God for not specifically mentioning the word “sphere” for the simpletons out there. Most of us, however, get it just fine. (Something tells me had he mentioned “sphere” you’d still be going on about how He failed to list the exact dimensions. Go figure.) Seriously, are we still talking about whether or not a sphere is round? I give up. You win. The Bible clearly states the Earth is flat!….um, where was that again? Never mind. Moving on.

          • SashaC

            Why are you getting so frustrated? Breathe, it’s going to be okay. I just found it amusing that the scripture you so condescendingly used to “prove” your point could be (and has been) cited as an indication of just the opposite, which is what I believe. It’s a matter of interpretation. I know that is a difficult concept for you religious types to grasp, seeing as how you even argue amongst yourselves regarding whose interpretation of every minute detail of your beliefs is correct. What I do know is that that scripture is certainly not absolute proof that the men (not “god”) who wrote the bible understood the earth was not flat, which is how you presented it. Had you been smarter, you would have just asked for proof that the bible definitively states that the earth is flat, rather than cockily trying (and failing) to prove that they knew it wasn’t.

            We do agree on something though, which is that it’s time to move on.

          • The Last Trump

            Yes, you have me there. Had I been smarter I would not have wasted my time responding in the first place. Trying and failing? Hmmm….don’t see any up-votes for you…Ah well. You tried. Sorry about responding again. Noticed I had a message. Good ol’ circle/round/sphere debate again! Promise I won’t respond if you really feel the need to have the last word. It’s all yours. This conversation is just too circular. (And flat.)

          • James Grimes

            You’re right on all counts.

          • T C

            Flat like your head.

          • 211Nickey

            sick burn m8

          • T C

            You just admitted that murder is wrong….you do know that that is a sin and is mentioned in the Bible as well as homosexuality? So you are picking and choosing which parts of the Bible are true and which aren’t??

          • 211Nickey

            No. I know perfectly well that it is a sin, I just said “Lets go murder some people” because he does not care that those two people broke the law.

            Also, The joke was that most Christians pick parts of the bible.

            Like this: “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.”

          • T C

            He didn’t care that they broke the law because we are commanded to uphold God’s law over man’s so-called law and in this case it would be breaking God’s law to support or partake in a homosexual wedding. God’s word is very clear on this.

            Your reference to slaves submit yourselves to your masters doesn’t really apply here. Not sure what your point is. This verse is saying basically that if one is mistreated, they must bear up under it and God will reward them.

        • DuneDude

          No and neither are the other simpletons who post here.

          • MC

            “No and neither are the other simpletons who post here.”

            No one is keeping you here except you. If you don’t like it you are more than welcome to leave and find somewhere you are actually welcomed. That is of course you don’t have self-control issues?

    • DuneDude

      $150K is a drop in the bucket and does not even pay for the trouble the courts and others went to to let these idiots know they are at odds with the law and are not a church.

      • James Grimes

        Idiots? And you claim to be a Christian pastor? Why are you so rude and hateful toward Christians? Your track record here is nothing to be proud of. Oops, numerous other Christians have already told you that.

        I would appreciate if you did not respond to any of my comments in the future. I consider anything you have to say meaningless and I cannot respect any reasons why you act the way you do.

        No need for a rebuttal. Just go somewhere else.

        • DuneDude

          Thank you God for telling who are and aren’t the Christians. Just who appointed you ruler of the Rolodex?

  • Pollos Hermanos

    Perhaps they should have followed the well established state non-discrimination laws. Of course, they’re on the wingnut welfare speaking circuit now so I’m pretty sure their bills will be covered and bankruptcy wont be an issue.

    • James Grimes

      Geez, another Atheist stalker that wants to haunt this site.

      I’m not interested.

      • Pollos Hermanos

        Don’t you believe in freedom of speech?

        Why do you hate America?

        • James Grimes

          Have you served this country in the military? Probably not. I have. This is my last word with you. I won’t waste any more of my time. Your comments are meaningless and your presence here is insignificant. Go troll an atheist site.

          • Pollos Hermanos

            I’m not an atheist. Why do you tell lies like that?

        • The Last Trump

          I think you mean Amerika.

        • penguincompassion

          So, are you a Christian? If so, do you like God or America better?

          • Pollos Hermanos

            I would never call myself a Christian. The label has way too much horrible baggage. The people who wear the Christian badge have ruined the brand.

          • penguincompassion

            That “horrible baggage” is the same baggage that helped build this nation up. What’s tearing it down now are the new man-made laws created within the last ten years. Kinda similar to the 60’s.

    • BarkingDawg

      I bet if they stop at some of the mega churches they could clear 40 or 50 grand out of single weekend.

      • The Last Trump

        They wouldn’t be allowed in. The mega churches support homosexuality too. Go figure. It’s the popular trend today in the ever-changing world of political correctness.

  • bowie1

    What would happen if they are unable to pay the fine? Do they have enough assets to cover it? If they are incorporated can the government touch personal property?

    • BarkingDawg

      I’m sure that they have a Go-fund-me site up and operating by now.

      • penguincompassion

        I believe as many people should help them as possible and others who the government tries fining.

        • BarkingDawg

          Paying the “stupidity tax.”

  • SFBruce

    Oregon law leaves absolutely no ambiguity about the fact that it is illegal for a public accommodation to discriminate based on sexual orientation. Their claim that simply baking a cake and charging their regular price for doing so constitutes some kind of approval of that particular marriage makes no sense at all, and the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries obviously sees it the same way, as is any body that’s likely to have this before them. As important as our right to religious liberty is, it doesn’t mean businesses don’t have to follow the law. I wonder why the Kleins and their supporters don’t use their energy to try and repeal this law, since they seem to think it’s unfair.

    • William Mazeo

      So if someone arrived there asking for a cake to a orgy party they’d be FORCED to do it? What the… logic…. -_-”
      If it’s my business I’m going to do what is right in my opinion, and that’s not discrimination as they said they already sold stuff for those same people. They’ll be happier closing it all and starting again because God will give much more to them for doing what is right!

      • SFBruce

        I haven’t been to any orgies, but I don’t think people who do attend go there expecting cake. Also, as far as I know, people who attend orgies aren’t a protected class, whereas sexual orientation is indeed a protected category in Oregon, so your example isn’t particularly apt here.

        There are certain restrictions businesses have to follow to avoid legal problems, and observance of non-discrimination laws is one of them. Do you think a baker who sincerely believes the races shouldn’t intermarry should be free to decline to bake a wedding cake for a mixed race couple? In the eyes of Oregon’s non-discrimination law, it’s just as wrong to decline service on the basis of sexual orientation as it is to decline service based on race.

        • BarkingDawg

          What? No cake at the orgy? What do they do there then?

        • William Mazeo

          I hope you are trolling. Yeah let’s mix sexual choices with racial matter…
          We need a rolling eyes smiley here.

          • SFBruce

            Rolling your eyes doesn’t change the face that Oregon’s anti-discrimination law forbids discrimination based on both sexual orientation and race, among other categories.

          • The Last Trump

            Love how “sexual orientation” is the new spin on sexual preference. And it’s protected under anti-discrimination laws like race and colour! What a farce!

        • penguincompassion

          Then I presume to you it’s OK to discriminate in the name of discrimination.

  • sarah lim

    God bless them both:) may all of us in Christ continue to pray for them and many like them

    • The Last Trump

      Amen. Bring on the persecution.

      • TellUWut

        They broke the law, you get that, correct?

        • Wootsauce

          They followed God’s Law. Guess humanity needs to catch up…

          • TellUWut

            God’s law doesn’t regulate business licenses. Guess you shouldn’t take on the benefits of a business license that’s regulated by laws that go against your beliefs, huh?

          • The Last Trump

            Their society changed. They did not. These lawsuits and penalties are only happening now because our morals have recently changed. They will suffer the consequences of their choice. You get that, right? Absolutely break these unjust, immoral laws if they insist you dishonour God and act against your convictions. We are promised persecution in this world. And that’s ok. We know we answer to a higher authority and we refuse to dishonour Him. And it’s ok if you don’t get that.

          • TellUWut

            Either they accepted and signed for the license that represented accepting laws they were against. OR they continued to accept money while operating under laws that they were against. I don’t know when they opened their doors, so I can’t speak to that.

            Either way, they had no trouble at all taking money in a state that had business operation laws that went against their beliefs. Until someone challenged them.

          • The Last Trump

            Not exactly. The laws are still changing from state to state and country to country around the world. The entire issue is still very much unresolved as the definition of marriage continues to change daily from place to place. None of this was their doing (the couple) and when faced with the scenario of involvement with a same sex marriage they choose not to compromise for mere money like most, and bravely stuck out their necks to suffer the consequences. God bless em.

          • TellUWut

            Either they took money under pretenses that went against their religion. Or the laws changed and they continued to take money under new pretenses that went against their religion.

            Non discrimination laws are part of owning a business in that state. You have to agree to the business laws in order to get a business license. Therefore they either knowingly started operating or continued to operate under laws that said you cannot discriminate against certain protected classes that include homosexuals.

            Their acceptance of a business license in a state that does not allow businesses to discriminate, is an acceptance of the policy. Plain and simple. Until they decided they didn’t like it anymore and broke it, then claimed the agreement that they happily took money under, was suddenly unfair. But it wasn’t unfair the day before?

          • Bob

            “You have to agree to the business laws in order to get a business license.”

            Ironically, the State applies this standard to marriage licenses as well.

          • TellUWut

            Yeah how ironic that the laws don’t yet allow all citizens to enjoy the same rights. Won’t be that way for too much longer.

            Btw a business license and a government benefit that allows you tax, health and financial benefits with a partner are two wildly different things.

          • Kimo

            The Bible and Constitution are both clear that Americans are not required to follow immoral laws, and the government is prohibited against enforcing them against them.

          • Wootsauce

            Good luck having the government as your highest authority. Spoiler alert: that ends poorly.

          • TellUWut

            Unfortunately that is the authority you agree to fall under when you accept their business license. In a business sense, these people had to acknowledge their authority to be able to run a business.

          • Douglas Bechdel

            They were in business years before the law came about. Same sex marriage has not been legal for very long. Sad to say, that people who believe as Aaron and Melissa Klein do will have to sell their business. I happen to agree with the Kleins.

          • TellUWut

            Same sex marriage isn’t the issue. Anti-discrimination laws apply to everyone.

          • Kimo

            American are increasingly standing up against perversion.

          • TellUWut

            Which is why the supreme court just refused to hear the case for gay marriage bans in five states. Yeah, that’s really the direction we’re heading.

          • Reinhold Von Kirschmann

            The perversion called Christianity

          • Robert Tulloch

            Has no
            thing to do with God. If they don’t want to serve these perverts, that is their right.

          • TellUWut

            Yeah. It’s their right. In a state where it isn’t illegal. Sadly that’s not the case for these people.

          • Reinhold Von Kirschmann

            Perverts like the catholic priest pedophiles?

          • Pattielaine

            If they followed God’s law, they would do background checks on heterosexual couples.

          • Richard Thompson

            Which God? Whatever the answer to that is, which interpretation of that God’s “words”?

          • Bruce Morrow

            The God of the Bible, whose name is Jehovah. The true and living God who tells us in his word that homosexuality is WRONG!

          • http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com misha_trotsky

            “God who tells us in his word that homosexuality is WRONG!”

            Leviticus 11:2-“Say to the Israelites: ‘Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud.”
            “Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams you may eat any that have fins and scales.”

            Do you eat pork and shellfish? If so, why? Or do you pick and choose what you want to obey, to justify bigotry?

          • MC

            18 And He said to them, “Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?” (Thus He declared all foods clean.) Mark 7:18-19

            Maybe if you actually read the Bible you wouldn’t make a fool of yourself.

        • The Last Trump

          They sure did. God bless ’em. I hope if you are ever faced with a similar decision to obey God or obey the ever changing, flip flopping laws of man, you will make the same choice.

          • TellUWut

            So you should be dishonest and accept money under pretenses you don’t agree with, but only until someone challenges you? Yeah, very christian, that plan.

          • The Last Trump

            What story were you reading? Dishonest? Accepting money under pretenses? Please! Stop trying to villainize people because they don’t think like you do. Stick to the facts please.

          • TellUWut

            Yes. When you accept a business license you accept the rules of running a business, which in this state include not discriminating against certain classes. They had to agree to the state laws to GET the license.

            Or do you think people of different religions get different business licenses?

          • The Last Trump

            As I already stated, the rules of running a business are constantly changing and “classes” continue to be added to the ever-changing non-discrimination laws. All of which are very recent developments due to the immorality that runs rampant in our dysfunctional, bankrupt society. The fact that sexual preference is considered a “class” is ridiculous enough. Many of these people don’t even know what their preference is and experiment with members of both sexes, sometimes at the same time. Confusion is the norm today. People are encouraged from a young age to “pick” even there very gender. What nonsense. Things are now so upside down and backwards that pedophiles, supporters of bestiality, and those who engage in incest insist that they be given the very same (and very recent) rights given to the LGBT community. Why not? They insist that they were born that way too. Welcome in yet another “class” not to be discriminated against. It’s no wonder America is now the weak, laughing stock of the world. Well deserved.

          • TellUWut

            They still made, accepted, and spent money under the agreement that they could not discriminate against listed classes. Or else they wouldn’t have the business license they held.

            If they felt that following those laws went against their beliefs, and agreed to that contract anyways, they are being dishonest. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

          • The Last Trump

            In this case, only if you’re gay 😉 (Sorry. Couldn’t resist!)

          • The Last Trump

            Wow. Not sure why you feel the need to twist the story. Nobody did at all what you are accusing them of. In fact, this entire story is about exactly the opposite. They are losing their business and going bankrupt BECAUSE they didn’t accept any money. REMEMBER! Seriously! Article is titled “Christian Bakers Who DECLINED to Make Cake” Come on, now! Enough nonsense.

          • TellUWut

            OH because these lesbians were their only customers ever, right? Nope. They accepted the rules, which is what you have to do to take in money. If you dont’ accept the rules you don’t get a business license.

            It was fine until the day it didn’t suit them.

        • Kimo

          That’s what the nazis said when they threw Jews and Christians in the ovens. But Americans will overcome those imposing sexual perversion on our country, starting in November. Our state is predicted to be a landslide against those who supported homosexual so-called “marriage.”

        • Robert Tulloch

          Get fucked. These judges need a little gallows time. Screw the LBGT community and their truing to force themselves on people who don’t want them.’ They can go somewhere else.

          • TellUWut

            No matter how you feel about it. It’s still the law.

          • Reinhold Von Kirschmann

            There’s that Christian love!

  • James Grimes

    I would love to know which states still respect people of faith. Hopefully, relocation to one of these states is an option for this couple and their business.

    • BarkingDawg

      Iran and Russia still allow you to discriminate against gays. have a nice trip

      • James Grimes

        +10 points toward your DUMB ATHEIST OF THE YEAR award. Go Dawg, you’re racking up the points. Every comment you make here is not only meaningless, but idiotic. Congrats.

        • DuneDude

          Since when are Russians and Iranians atheists? James Grimes should be awarded the “Darwin Award” for stupid. Atheism is never mentioned by anyone but Grimes. He probably prays to Satan so he doesn’t have to call himself an atheist.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Where does James make the claim that Iran and Russia are atheists?!? It is surely clear that he makes that claim against “Dawg.”

          • James Grimes

            When you’re old and retired, sometimes your reading ability suffers. Your comment, meant to be hostile and insulting, indicates that you have not read my comment. Or, you may have tried to read it, but you weren’t able to understand it. In any case, your comment is meaningless.

    • disqus_N9Jawtu8Uw

      People of faith are in the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights but American Courts treat the U.N. declaration as irrelevant even though it id higher than USA law.

      BarkingDawg and others don’t care about law or science or theology.

  • Aaron McNabb

    I would lay odds that when the time arrives that a same sex couple goes to a Muslim baker and demands this same service and the baker declines our “pro” Islam government will figure out a way to side step the issue altogether!

    • BarkingDawg

      I’ll bet that you are wrong.

      • DuneDude

        I will bet Aaron McNabb is an ignorant POS who should be flown to Syria to fight ISIS with a bicycle pump.

        • Agitator9

          Once again, the most hateful comments always come from those who claim to stand against “hate.” Look in the mirror when you say “ignorant.”

          • The Last Trump

            Yes, he does seem to go on about that particular word throughout his posts. I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume that he’s very familiar with the term.

          • James Grimes

            He is an angry old man.

      • DanielAllison

        I will bet that you lose a lot of times.LOL

    • Beth St George

      Seeings how this has never happened in any of the states, which have passed non-discrimination laws, which included the LGBT community, you are just wishful thinking and disconnected from reality.

    • Coxygru

      All businesses must respect state laws. If you illegally refuse service to customers, expect to suffer the legal penalty. It’s that simple.

      • Bob

        NOPE

    • http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com misha_trotsky

      A Muslim cab driver refused my service dog, saying a dog was against his religion. The judge said “$400.”

      You would defend that cab driver – correct?

      • Bob

        I would. I would also support your right to boycott the business and seek service elsewhere, as well as the right of the cab company to fire the driver if they feel his beliefs are not consistent with the values of the company. That said, if you were truly harmed by the drivers actions, then your case should be against him, and the damages should be consistent with the harm caused.

        As for anti-discrimination laws, get the State out of private business and most of these problems will solve themselves through the free market. Your situation actually highlights the inequality inherent in anti-discrimination laws. You got $400 for an act that very likely caused a great deal of harm, these people were charged $150,000 for hurting someone’s feelings. That just doesn’t seem right.

        • http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com misha_trotsky

          It’s called “denial of service,” and it’s a crime.

          Businesses at one time refused to serve Jewish and black patrons, citing religious beliefs. The result was the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

          • Bob

            Well of course they did. It was the law.

  • William Mazeo

    “land of the free”

    • BarkingDawg

      Free to not be discriminated against.

      • The Last Trump

        Free to shop elsewhere.

        • BarkingDawg

          Which, from the sound of it, a lot of people are.

          It is stupid to turn away customers.

          • Nedd Kareiva

            That should be their decision, right? Or then again, maybe they should have taken the order (and money), then told the lesbos that they were donating their entire payment to a pro-traditional marriage group to fight against same sex marriage in Oregon. Sounds like a good idea to me (kudos to Jesse Lee Peterson suggesting this in a recent WND column).

            BTW, BD, any teeth left in that old canine mouth of yours?

          • The Last Trump

            Too bad. It’s their business, their products, their choice. What would really be stupid is to sell out and act against ones own convictions for mere money. Believe it or not, some people still give a damn about offending the God that once blessed us so richly. And we will get what we deserve. God forgive us. Now, you don’t have to believe that, but how ’bout extending some of that tolerance for others that folks like you are so adamant about? Ironic, isn’t it? The most intolerant group on the planet.

          • BarkingDawg

            And what is it that their “convictions ” tell them to do?

            Discriminate against someone based on who that person loves.

          • The Last Trump

            Sorry, thought I cleared that up already. Convictions not to confuse right and wrong. Convictions not to offend the God who created us male and female for a reason. Convictions not to confuse sex with love. Again, your intolerance seems to blind you to the fact that nobody is discriminating against love. Just perverse sexual conduct that flies in the face of nature, if you believe in evolution, or our design by our Creator, if you believe in God. Spin it however you like. Our anatomy declares for us how to use it if you are too confused to figure it out for yourself.

          • T C

            Nah, it ain’t love. It’s flat out lust. They are selfish, lovers of self, and not lover’s of God. They are doomed.

          • BarkingDawg

            You are a rather judhental person, I see.

            You also have no idea what you are talking about.

          • T C

            Actually I do know what I’m talking about. They are doomed…2 Pet 2:6, “If he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly…” Truth it is.

          • T C

            Umm, the logical answer to that is, yes I do know. It’s stated rather clearly in the Bible that those who practice such things will be in hell weeping and gnashing their teeth.

  • BarkingDawg

    Waaa Waaa Waaa, I bet the are crying all the way to the bank. A couple of speaking engagements at a few mega-churches and they will have three times that much in donations.

    • bowie1

      I doubt if they have that kind of clout.

    • LoveJesus

      It is okay to stand up for what you believe even if it means persecution. You gays were once in the closet and the law was against you. The medical field was against you too but you fought and despite persecution, you came out of the closet and the law was changed in your favor. Now you are asking Christians to go into the closet. We shall fight back too and the law may or not be changed in our favor. We seek to drive you guys back into the dirty closets you came out of. You are polluting the earth. If a pedophile comes into your establishment and ask for wedding cake, will you make the cake if the law says you have to or do you fight back? Do you do everything your government asks you to do even when it is not right?

      • BarkingDawg

        It’s not persecution. The same law that the Kleins broke applies to everyone. They are not special, just ignorant.

      • BarkingDawg

        I’m not gay, but that’s OK , I don’t care

        Get over yourself already. No one is persecuting Christians.

  • OldArkie

    2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

    Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

    1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness’ sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

    1Pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

    If ye suffer persecution, that’s a good sign, so many that profess faith in Jesus refuse to suffer the least bit, & refuse to make any sacrifices for the Lord their God. Prayers that upir hearts will be filled with God’s joy!

  • shawn

    Maybe if they go bankrupt, they will learn not to discriminate. The law is the law, if they walked into a business and the owners of said business refused services to them because they are christians, it would be the same thing. Its 2014 people, get over sexual preferences already.

    • The Last Trump

      No, they wont flip flop on their beliefs over a little persecution, like political correctness constantly does with the changing of the wind. And it’s a big “C” in Christians, by the way. Nice to see people stick to their guns and refuse to be bullied by others with different opinions. $150 000 thousand dollar fine. What a joke.

      • BarkingDawg

        So, I hope the have a back up plan for income. The bakery buisness is not for them it seems.

        You can’t run a buisness by driving off customers.

        • The Last Trump

          Something tells me they were doing just fine before a certain someone came along trying to push an agenda. Anybody else would have shopped elsewhere. Don’t like pro-family supporters? Shop at pro gay bakeries. Not rocket science.

          • BarkingDawg

            “Pro-family?” Pro-discrimination is more like it.

            The law is quite specific. They are not allowed to discriminate based on sexual orientation.

            If you don’t like that, change the law.

          • The Last Trump

            It’s called pro-morality. Used to be popular once upon a time the world over. Not so much this generation. This generation hates God and despises Christians. This generation seeks pleasure first and foremost in all its sick forms. If it feels good do it. This generation changed the laws that stood the test of time. This generation calls what was always considered right, wrong. And what was always known to be wrong, right. Why now? Because we are so advanced and enlightened? Hardly. Can’t even turn the TV on for all the warnings about sex and violence in every program. We are the laughing stock of the rest of the world, and dare to impose our sick and ever changing views on morality on others. Laws change all the time to reflect the wickedness in the hearts of men. God’s will does not. Read the end of the book. Things don’t end well for the LGBT community. I don’t have to change anything. Somebody else is coming soon to correct our mistakes and set up His own kingdom. And it’s not a democracy. Oh and yes I do discriminate. I discriminate right from wrong. Morality from immorality. Certainly not going to apologize for that. You can bark all you want about how you would like things to be but you’re barking up the wrong tree. Take a good look around. If America’s making such progressive moral changes to her laws why is she falling apart so rapidly and absolutely? Or perhaps you think everything is going to turn out just fine… Might want to look through a few news headlines from time to time. Fact is, when we honoured the God of the Bible and read and taught His Word, America was richly blessed. Not anymore. I don’t need to argue with anyone about the facts. I’ve seen the before and I’ve seek the after picture. Oh, how I long for the before! This generation of illiterate, bankrupt, God rejecting, hedonistic pleasure seekers chooses to believe that this is just some kind of amazing coincidence. I guess we’ll see.

          • Sha-wei

            “Read the end of the book. Things don’t end well for the LGBT community.
            I don’t have to change anything. Somebody else is coming soon to
            correct our mistakes and set up His own kingdom. And it’s not a
            democracy.”

            Wise and insightful words.

      • TellUWut

        Your beliefs don’t supercede your agreement to follow state laws when you open a business. Nope, sure don’t.

        • The Last Trump

          Sure do, where God is concerned. There is no higher court. And if they lose their business because of it, that’s still ok. There is always a cost when doing what is right. Cowards back down and give in to bullying and fines. Governments consistently pass laws that are immoral and unjust all the time. Just ask the folks that were forced to serve under the Nazis. Or the Communists and Fascists of the world. Or those who supported and endorsed slavery. “Just following orders” or “its the law of the land” doesn’t cut it when we stand before God.

          • TellUWut

            They agreed to not discriminate when they took the license that allowed them to make money in that state. They made money under the agreement, which is necessary to get the license, that they would not discriminate against homosexuals.

            It doesn’t matter what laws are passed, you have to accept the laws of a state to run a business. Which they did.

        • disqus_N9Jawtu8Uw

          U.N. Declaration of Human Rights does

  • Donald Jean

    By the Grace of the Lord , and the Holy Spirit that is strengthening you; you have made the very right Decision as Christians living their live for JesusChrist! You may lived in the world, but not part of it. Specifically that imorality thing.

  • DuneDude

    I can’t imagine siding with these “Christians” who are using their religion as a cover for ignorance and bigotry. I hope they wind up on the street selling their bodies to the same sex just to make ends meet. LOL!

    • penguincompassion

      The same might happen to you

      • DuneDude

        I am retired and have never discriminated against anyone and have always supported minorities of all kinds. If it does happen, I will borrow a mattress, roller skates, and a change maker so I can be on the streets with your credits as my entree.

      • Sherry Taylor-Jackson

        Penguincompassion; It’s easy to fall into satan’s trap. For the Grace of God, please don’t get caught up in it. God said that vengeance was his, he will repay. Let him take care of the Naysayers. We, as brothers and sisters of Christ, are to lift up and encourage our family that is facing persecution. Be there for them. Give God the glory, and all praise due his name. AMEN

        • penguincompassion

          Thank you for the clarity. I needed it. God bless!

        • BarkingDawg

          What about the couple that is being persecuted based on who they love?

          • Agitator9

            They are not being persecuted at all, but in fact are being upheld and supported by the legal system in persecuting those of a different belief system. Being turned away for a cake is not persecution. Being fined, harassed, vandalized, threatened, and losing your business–that’s persecution. Unfortunately, once-marginalized groups are proving that power corrupts, and they are the oppressors now.

          • BarkingDawg

            The Karin’s broke the following law

            § 659A.403¹
            Discrimination in place of public accommodation prohibited
            (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, all persons within the jurisdiction of this state are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of any place of public accommodation, without any distinction, discrimination or restriction on account of race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, marital status or age if the individual is 18 years of age or older.

        • Alvin Chipmunk

          Thank you for your reply. I appreciate it.

    • BarkingDawg

      I don’t.

      From the picture they are a couple of kids. Someone needs to pull them aside and explain to them that they messed up and if they don’t stop with the righteous indignation Schlick, the will lose their buisness and seriously damage their future.

      They need admit that they were wrong, which they were, and work out a deal for a reduced fine.

      Otherwise they will be flushing their future down the toilet.

      • Agitator9

        The Kleins’ only “mistake” was being honest about their convictions and speaking them, which is their inalienable right. Nobody in America should be enslaved or forced to serve someone else’s agenda against their principles. This was not a monopoly or public utility that left the gay couple bereft by denying them service, but a small mom-and-pop shop that could not provide a specific cake. CAKE. Not water, plumbing, heat, or justice. The wedding business catering to gay couples is positively booming, and the Kleins’ unavailability for this purpose was absolutely no skin off the complainants’ noses. In fact, I guarantee they only pursued the Kleins because they knew of their faith orientation (the crosses are right there on the wall, folks) and spitefully and deliberately plotted to put them out of business by filing a complaint all along. As for “righteous indignation,” the only ones who displayed that were the complainants and their contemptible cronies who wished the Kleins’ kids would “get really, really sick” and told them to “enjoy hell,” while criminally vandalizing their property. The only ones “flushing their future down the toilet” are those creating and bowing to the new American fascism that demands subservience to a totalitarian agenda.

        • BarkingDawg

          Too bad, so sad.

          Discrimination is discrimination.

          If you can not follow anti-discrimination laws, then don’t go into buisness.

        • 211Nickey

          The couple ordering stuff from their shop before without rejected service, But because a wedding cake was rejected was why they filed a complaint.

          They did not just complain because there were “crosses on the wall”, The complained because they were rejected service.

          Read the article next time, Pal.

    • The Last Trump

      Ever notice that anybody who rightly believes that a man and a woman were clearly designed to be together and form families is labelled ignorant and a bigot today? Ya, I guess it makes more sense that people should be having sex with the same sex, the opposite sex, multiple sex partners and the like. Sexual preference. In a more dignified and moral time we had some very accurate labels for people like that. Funny how we spin things today.

      • DuneDude

        When I said “ignorant,” you prove it. A sexual preference is like a fetish while sexual orientation is a natural expression of underlying neurobiology. Read the science and not your palm.

        • The Last Trump

          Science! Oh brother! Science proves that a penis belongs in a rectum! You guys are too much! I must have missed that biology class. My apologies. I’ll try to keep up with the madness, I mean “science.”

          • DuneDude

            Many homosexuals do not have sex and many do not have anal sex of any kind. At least 20% of homosexual men are in heterosexual marriages and have children. Your knee jerk reaction is naturally approved by the ignorant who follow such flaws logic and filthy thinking.

          • The Last Trump

            Well, professor, if they are homosexual men, why pray tell, would they be in heterosexual marriages? Never mind. I forgot. “Science.” Must be nice to get a pass in morality and sleep with whoever the hell you want in either, or both sexes, whenever the hell you want to. I guess if I turned my back on God and His Word and embraced the “pleasures” of sin, I wouldn’t want to give up that right to party, I mean “love” either. Please forgive my ignorant, filthy morals.

          • DuneDude

            They are “pseudo-heterosexuals” who often marry because of idiots like you who are evangelical nut cases. They do not feel complete unless they take on your ceremonial bullshit. By making judgments when that is the purview of God who makes all judgments about men you are likely morally bankrupt and have to point out everyone’s sins but your own. You obviously haven’t read Christ’s words about making judgments against others.

          • The Last Trump

            Ohhhh! Pseudo-heterosexuals! My mistake. That changes everything. I guess its all right then….But, I thought the Bible said, ‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable’ (Lev 18:22. And there’s more, of course. But this is clear enough, no?) You see, I don’t judge people. I just do as God tells me and avoid doing what He says to avoid doing or promoting or condoning. Get the picture, my confused “pastor” friend? Or are you just going to continue to grasp at straws, lie about the Bible, and do whatever it takes to continue to engage in and justify the lifestyle you desperately want to continue? Hey, I understand. But it’s not my laws. Take it up with God. Just don’t take issue with me for supporting Him. I certainly am not going to flip flop on this clearest of issues because YOU say I should. Give me a break!

          • DuneDude

            As to the Bible you don’t have to lie about one big lie brought to you by the Roman Government under Constantine.

        • Kurt Owen Dizon Dayoan

          you’re just an Atheist -_- the word moral values is not present in you anymore

          • DuneDude

            As a Christian pastor, I take umbrage at your silly comment. You are morally corrupt because you refuse science which flows from God. He created all things not just what some confused evangelicals believe.

          • The Last Trump

            “I will bet Aaron McNabb is an ignorant POS who should be flown to Syria to fight ISIS with a bicycle pump.” YOU’RE a Christian pastor!!?? Well, that about sums it up folks. What a generation! God help us.

          • DuneDude

            I doubt all the prayers in the world would make a God help you.

          • The Last Trump

            It’s too bad you feel that way. We really shouldn’t be getting worked up about this. I, however, will do as my Lord commanded and love you despite our differences. I expect that this issue is something that you feel passionate about and I wouldn’t expect you to change your beliefs because of anything I can say. Just be careful, if you are a Christian, to make sure you live in accordance to the will of God. We all have to make changes and give up things we once felt were right from time to time, do we not? I do apologize for the sarcasm in some of my posts, as I too, can get my buttons pushed on occasion and act disrespectfully. Thankfully, my Christian conscience manages to convict me when required and return me to a more humble frame of mind. I wish you the best and pray that both of us can know what God expects for us and help us to be careful to know and obey His will. God bless!

          • James Grimes

            Unbelievable, isn’t he? If true, then he is apostate to the nth degree.

          • aservant

            Matthew 18:5-7English Standard Version (ESV)
            5 “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, 6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin,[a] it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

          • DuneDude

            Thanks for trotting out what the Romans gave you as a Bible to keep their power and subjugate women, etc. And, I never mention children. But, you will do since you are so childish as to believe in this crap.

        • disqus_N9Jawtu8Uw

          Science says DuneDude is wrong. Same sex orientation is a lot more that just genetics and all science actually says that but DuneDude couldn’t care about science.

          • DuneDude

            I never said that sexual orientation is not more than genetics. You appear to be a scientific wonder who doesn’t know anything about the science of sexual orientation. For a comprehensive article “Sexual Orientation: Science and Society” with over 450 peer reviewed authoritative references email [email protected]. Your mother must have aborted the child who was going to be a scientist. You certainly don’t seem to know anything about the science of sex and gender orientation.

            Science: Gender and Sexual Orientation

            During fetal development, if androgens (male sex hormones) are not present, are insufficient in quantity, or are unusable, the brain, body, or both will feminize due to the lack of sufficient male hormones or intolerance to male hormones. If androgens are present, sufficient in quantity, and usable, the brain, body or both will masculinize due to the presence of sufficient tolerated male hormones. In humans, genital-gender/sex arises in the 2nd to 3rd months and brain-gender/sex in the 4th to 5th months of fetal development. The time disparity between the development of neurological and genital sexuality increases the probability of cross-gendering leading to homosexuality and other brain based anomalous gender/sex behaviors.

            Genetics and teratology.

            Based on an extensive review of the literature on the etiology of homosexuality, biological events predominantly explain the origins of sexual orientation.[1] While some question the ethics of studying genetic issues related to homosexuality,[2] in-utero genetic or neuroendocrinological events play a critical role in cross-gendering.[3] Genetic and in-utero chemically
            induced sex-altered groups illustrate the paradigm: Turner’s Syndrome, Androgen Insensitives, Testicular Feminizing Syndrome, Klinefelter’s Syndrome (XnY), progestin-administered females, Adrenogenital Syndrome, “super-males” (XYn), etc.[4] Over 450 species other than humans, in the wild and captivity, exhibit “homosexual” behavior, many with life long bonds.[5] Particularly primates appear to have differing degrees of “homosexual” behavior.[6] The first evidence of the sex-behavior center came from research on mammals.[7] Most research involved surgical interventions and the administration or denial of sex hormones during critical brain differentiation periods.[8] In human female fetuses at risk for
            masculinizing effects from male hormones, German physicians, using in-utero anti-androgens, have forced female genitalia and brain-gender/sex.[9] Although discussed by Dörner, the use of androgens to force male brain-gender is complex and can potentially result in brain damage, attention deficit disorder, learning disabilities, hyper-activity, and hyper-aggression.[10]

            Physiology, anatomy, and psychophysiology.

            Numerous studies show male homosexuals in many ways approximate females and significantly differ from male heterosexuals. Comparing male homosexuals to female heterosexuals, similarities include muscle structure, sleep patterns, pelvic openings, carry angle of arm, perception, finger dexterity, noticeable acoustic style, visuo-spatial ability, verbal performance, language lateralization, eating disorders, throw-to-target ability, mental rotation task, E.E.G. readings, response to male pheromones, etc.[11] Compared to heterosexual males, some studies suggest homosexual males appear more prone to left-handedness, stuttering, and
            reading difficulties, differing brain anatomy related to auditory input, atypical gender and sex behavior, differing lipid levels, more empathy and altruism, larger penile dimension, etc.[12] Among other research showing brain differences between homosexual and heterosexual males,[13] anatomical research at Salk Institute comparing male heterosexual and homosexual brains suggests a differing development of the sex-behavior center in male homosexuals.[14] A more recent UCLA study of the male homosexual brain shows broader differences discriminating male homosexuals from both male and female heterosexuals.[15] Research on transsexuals has also revealed significant differences in brain anatomy and gonadotropin secretions.[16]

            Hormonal anomalies.

            Direct hormonal evidence shows that male homosexuals and heterosexuals significantly differ from one another.[17] In blind analysis, Margolese and Janiger accurately predicted sexual orientation. Some depressives, unknown to be homosexual, may have a similar difference in sex hormone ratio.[18] Dörner and Gooren injected estrogen into male homosexuals, male heterosexuals, and female heterosexuals with removed
            ovaries. They found the luteinizing hormone response of male homosexuals almost identical with these females and
            significantly different from male heterosexuals.[19] Similar results are found in male-to-female transsexuals.[20] Studies, using stringent classification of research subjects, show adult male heterosexuals have significantly higher levels of male hormones than do male homosexuals.[21] In animals with litters along a placental line, female mammals between male mammals cause post-natal sex-stereotypic male behaviors (e.g., sexual mounting and aggression) in these females.[22] Dörner hypothesizes that various in humans prenatal and postnatal hormonal administrations may be used to establish specific brain sex/gender outcomes.[23]

            Upsetting a female mammal during gestation can produce cross-gendered offspring.[24] Stress apparently lowers androgens in humans and crowding causes stress resulting in anomalous social behavior and cross-gendered behavior in mammals.[25] A similar phenomenon occurs in post hoc research on some homosexual research subjects.[26] Twice the numbers of male homosexuals were born in war-ravaged Germany during World War II than the six years before or after the war.[27]

            Pheromones and Sexual Orientation

            The vomeronasal system, adjacent to the olfactory system, mediates sexual interest for both males and females. Findings
            indicate pheromones play an important role in the identification of sexual
            objects at a subconscious level. For male homosexuals research has shown a clearly female neurological and social
            response to pheromones produced by males.[28] In addition, preference for human body odors are influenced by gender and sexual orientation.[29]

            Genetics and Neuroendocrinology.

            Augmenting decades old and contemporary research showing more homosexuals are born as the age of the mother increases,[30] recent research implicates H-Y antigens (resulting from previous male births) increase the probability of adult homosexuality and lack of heterosexual cohabitation by as much as 33 percent.[31] The sibling sex ration, without implicating H-Y antigen, suggests that approximately 10% of the variance in male homosexual behavior can be accounted for sibling sex-ratio.[32] Androgen-insensitives (XY females) and partial-androgen insensitives, illustrate the power of genetics in creating a divergence of genetic gender from both behavioral and anatomic gender.[33] XX females born with male genitalia and behavioral masculinization present a clear case for biologically induced cross gendering.[34] Many chromosomal anomalies (e.g., X deletion ring, ring X or isochrome X, missing X, XXXX, XYY, XX/XY, X0/XY, XXY/XX,
            XXY/XY, X0/XX, etc.) are contributing factors to sexual orientation, level of intellect, performance of tasks, etc.[35] Identical twins are usually concordant in sexual orientation. Identical twins discordant for sexual orientation can be explained by biological events and reluctance of some to reveal their homosexuality. There is one study, dealing with 61 pairs of twins and three sets of triplets. In one case all the triplets were homosexual.[36] Genetic linkage analysis, using extended families, of the X chromosome suggests some familial male homosexuality is likely genetic and passed down the maternal line.[37] A recent study using only homosexual
            siblings, found through advertisements in Gay newspapers and magazines, using a limited number of markers without the comparisons in extended families called into question the genetic theory of homosexuality.[38] Studies of the genetic contribution to homosexuality are often marred by poor subject selection, precise definitions of behavior, over generalization, inadequate methodology, etc.[39] Based on many studies of male homosexual twins, using very conservative statistical formulae, heritable factors may account for 44 percent of cases. Research on twins, families, and the adopted implicates genetic or neurohormonal origins for sexual orientation.[40]

            The argument against genetic factors because homosexuals seldom marry is fallacious.[41] Male homosexuals, subjected to social pressure to marry, often have offspring.[42] Even if homosexuals did not reproduce, the gene pool would still contain recessive traits, sport genes, and neuro-hormonal
            influences in-utero leading to cross-gendering.[43]

            Surgery and brain compromise.

            Evidence from neurosurgery challenges the archetypic myth that persons, based on genital sex determination at birth, will exhibit “gender appropriate” or “heterosexual” behavior in adolescence and adulthood. The first such evidence comes from data on pre-frontal lobotomy patients , some being treated for agitated depression. Following surgery, some
            patients became “spontaneously” homosexual. In line with Money’s comments about sex hormone ratios in some depressives,[44] many of these patients had significant depressive illness. Apparently, when the frontal area of the
            brain could no longer suppress underlying homosexual drives, these pseudoheterosexuals reverted to their normal homosexual preoccupation.[45] In follow-up, patients reported being able to suppress homosexual urges over a long period.
            Clinical data shows that as the brain deteriorates with aging, some pseudoheterosexuals are unable to mask their underlying homosexuality.

            In some countries, homosexuals have been “treated” surgically to force heterosexual behavior. Psychosurgery of
            the sex behavior center reduces or eliminates homosexual responding in some homosexual males. Many patients, without
            psychotherapeutic intervention, become heterosexually active after surgery. Some become asexual and have no sexual interest. Psychosurgery in lesbians results in fewer behavioral changes.[46] After these psychosurgeries, failure to
            follow-up patients and adverse side-effects are common–including death. A German government commission has called for the elimination of these surgeries.[47] Psychosurgeries to change sexual orientation are not available in the United States.

            Some males are accidentally mutilated during circumcision. Because of the ease of a male to female change, they are often sexually reassigned as females. Some of these “females” are masculine in behavior and many are “lesbian” during adulthood.[48]

            Research shows changes in sexual orientation can result from viral attack of the human sex-behavior center, head injuries, and tumors.[49] Psychosocial stressors leading to
            pseudosexuality and neurological insult or injury are apparently the only means of significantly altering the expression of sexual orientation. Excepting neurological changes, no credible sex researcher in the last fifty years has suggested sexual orientation changes after childhood. Most agree biological
            factors often mediate sexual orientation.55

            Psychophysiology.

            Autonomic pupillary and penile reflexes, minimally controlled by conscious processes, reliably differentiate between male heterosexuals and homosexuals.56 Male homosexual behavior can be reduced or eliminated using painful electric shock or apomorphine vomiting with or without desensitizing male homosexual to females.57 Ego-dystonic homosexuals
            “self-referred” or sent by “government social service
            agencies” often have psychopathology and marked homophobia.58 “Homophobia” is best characterized
            as a revulsion related to homosexual practices or openly homosexual persons. Many “cured” male homosexuals continue to have powerful homosexual urges without erectile
            function with sexual partners. Despite protracted aversive intervention, male homosexuals continue to have autonomic
            pupil responses to male stimuli.59 Aversion therapy and other invasive treatments are punitive60 and pose serious ethical concerns.61

            [1]Bancroft, J., 1994; Burr, C., 1996; Friedman, R.C. & Downey, J., 1993.

            [2]Schuklenk, J., Stein, E., Kerin, J. & Byne, W., 1997.

            [3] Dörner, G., Rohnde, W., Stahl, F., Krell, L. & Wolf-Gunther, M.A., 1975; MacCulloch, M.J. & Waddington, J.L., 1981;
            Hofman, M.A. & Swaab, D.F., 1991; Swaab, D.F., Hofman, M.A., Lucassen, P., Purba, J.S., Raadsheer, F.C. & Van de Nes, J.A., 1992; Money, J., 1990; Pfaff, D., Dellovade, T. & Zhu, Y.S., 1997; Pattatucci, A.M., 1998.

            [4] Dittmann, R.W., Kappes, M.E. & Kappes, M.H., 1992; Money, J. & Lewis, V.G., 1987; Dörner, G., 1976, pp. 227-228; Falik, L. 1976; Erhardt, A.A., Evers, K. & Money, J., 1968; Erhardt, A.A. & Money, J., 1967; Green, R. & Money, J., 1969, p. 94; Money, J. & Dalery, J., 1976; Money, J., Erhardt, A.A. & Masica, D.N., 1968; Headings, V.E., 1980; Pitcher, D.R., 1975.

            [5] Takenoshita, Y., 1998; Brown, D.H., Caldwell, D.K. & Caldwell, M.C., 1976; Ford C. & Beach, F.A., 1961 & 1954; Marmor, J., 1965.

            [6]Phoenix, C.H., 1971; Vasey, P.L., 1995.

            [7]Dörner, G., 1976, pp. 77-781; Ward, I.L., 1972; Serrano, J.M., Castro, L. Toto, M.A., & Lopez-Fanjui, C., 1991.

            [8]Dörner, G., Docke, F., & Hinz, G., 1969; Dörner, G., 1976, pp. 184-187; Giordano, G. & Giusti, M., 1995.

            [9]Dörner, G., 1968.

            [10]Dörner, G. & Hinz, G., 1968.

            [11] Bakwin, H., 1968; Evans, R.B., 1970; Schlegel, W.S., 1962; Doidge, W.T., 1956; Tuttle, G.E. & Pillard, R.C., 1991; Gadpaille, W.J., 1972; Alexander, J.E. & Sufka, K.J., 1993; Linville, S.E., 1998; Sanders, G. & Ross-Field, L., 1986; Wegesin, D.J., 1998; Sanders, G. & Wright, M., 1997; French, S.A., Story, M., Remafedi, G., Resnick, M.D. & Blum, R.W., 1996; Hall, J.A. & Kimura, D., 1995; Heffernan, K., 1994; Siever, M.D., 1994; Wegesin, D.J., 1998a; Gladue, B.A.
            & Bailey, J.M., 1995; Kirk-Smith, Michael, 1982.

            [12] Gotestam, K.O., Coates, T.J. & Ekstrand, M., 1992; McCormick, C.M., Witelson, S.F. & Kingstone, E., 1990; Reite, M., Sheeder, J., Richardson, D. & Teale, P., 1995; Salais, D. & Fischer, R.B., 1995; Holtzen, D.W., 1994.; Snyder, P.J., Weinrich, J.D. & Pillard, R.C., 1994; Sanders, G. & Ross-Field, L., 1987; Bogaert, A.F. & Hershberger, S., 1999.

            [13] Allen, L.S., 1991; De Lacoste, C. & Holloway, R., 1982.; Swaab, D.F., & Hofman, M.A., 1990; Allen, L. Hines, M., Shryne, J., & Borski, R., 1989.

            [14]LeVay, S., 1991; Swaab, D.F. & Hofman, M.A., 1995.

            [15]Allen, L.S. & Gorski, R.A., 1992.

            [16]Zhou, J.N., Jofman, M.A., Gooren, L.J. & Swaab, D.F., 1995; Elias, A.N. & Valenta, L.J., 1992.

            [17] Doerr, P., Kockott, G. Vogt, J.H., Pirke,
            K.M. & Dittman, F., 1973; Kolodny, R.C., Masters, W.H., Hendryx, J. & Toro, G., 1971; Adlecruz, H. & Schauman, K.O., 1976; Margolese, S.M. & Janiger, O., 1973; Margolese, S.M., 1970; Newmark, S.R., Rose, L.I., Todd, R., Birk, L., & Naftolin, F., 1979.

            [18]Money, J., 1971.

            [19]Dörner, G., 1981 & 1988; Gooren, L., 1986.

            [20]Rohde, F., 1986; Dörner, G., Docke, F., Gotz, F., Rohde, W., Stahl, F., Tonjes, R., 1987.

            [21]Dörner, G., 1976, p. 264; Stahl, F., Dörner, G., Ahrens, L., & Graudenz, W., 1976; West, D.J., 1977, p. 69.

            [22]Hauser, H. & Gandelman, R., 1983; Meisel, R.I. & Ward, J.L., 1981.

            [23]Dörner, G., 1989.

            [24]Ward, I.L., 1972; 1962; Kasohn, M.L. Ward, O.B., Grisham, W. & Ward, I.W., 1992.

            [25] Nahashima, A., Koshiyama, K., Uozumi, T., Mondem, Y., Haramanaku, Y., Kurachi, K., Aona, T., Mitzutani, S. &
            Matsumoto, K., 1975; Calhoun, J.B., 1962.

            [26] Bailey, J.M. & Pillard, B.C., 1991; Bailey, J.M., Willerman, L. & Parks, C., 1991; Dörner, G., Schenk, B., Schmiedel, B. & Ahrens, L., 1983.

            [27]McLaughlin, C., 1979, reporting on research by G. Dörner.

            [28]Kirk-Smith, 1982; Savic, I,, Berglund, H., & Lindstrom, 2005.

            [29]Martins, Y., Preti, G., Crabtree, C.R., Runyan, T., Vainuis, A.A., & Wysocki, C.J.

            [30]Bogaert, A.F., 1998; Slater, E., 1962; Blanchard, R. & Sheridan, P.M., 1992; Jones, M.B. & Blanchard, R., 1998.

            [31] Blanchard, R., Zucker, K.J., Siegelman, M.,
            Dickey, R., & Klassen, P., 1998; Blanchard, R. & Sheridan, P.M., 1992a; Blanchard, R. & Bogaert, A.F., 1997; Blanchard, R. & Klassen, P., 1997; Jones, M.B. & Blanchard, R., 1998; Blanchard, R., Bogaert, A.F. & Anthony, F., 1997.

            [32]Suarez, B.K. & Przybeck, T.R., 1980.

            [33]Money, J., Erhardt, A.S., & Masica, D.N., 1968; Gooren, L. & Cohen-Kettenis, P.T., 1991.

            [34]Money, J. & Dalery, J., 1976; Azor, B., 1998.

            [35]Dörner, G., 1976, pp. 212-219.

            [36]Whitam, F.L., Diamond,
            M., & Martin, J., 1993.

            [37] Patterson, A.D., 1998; Hamer, D.H., Hu, S., Magnuson, V.L., Hu, N. & Pattatucci, A.M., 1993; Paterson, A.D., 1998; Hu, S., Pattatucci, A.M., Patterson, C., Li, L., Fulker, D.W., Cherny, S.S., Kruglyak, L., Hamer, D.H., 1995; Turner, W.J., 1995.

            [38]Rice, G., Anderson, C., Risch, N., & Ebers, G., 1999.

            [39]Pattatucci, A.M., 1998.

            [40] Ellis, L. & Ames, 1987 with 300 references; Schepank, K., 1973; Dörner, G., Poppe, I., Stahl, F., Kotzsch, J. & Uebelhack, R., 1991; Bailey, J.M. & Pillard, B.C., 1991; Heston, L.L. & Shields, J., 1968, pp. 149-150; Holden, H.M., 1965; Pillard, R.C., Poumadere, J., & Carretta, R.A., 1981; McConaghy, N. & Blaszczynski, A., 1980; Thompson & Wilde, in B. Wolman, 1973, pp. 206-229; Heading, V.E., 1980, p. 1027; Jarvik, M.E., 1960; Dörner, G., 1971; Erhard, A.A. & Money, J., 1967; Money, J., Erhardt, A.A. & Masica, D.N., 1968, p. 105; Johnson, J., 1973; Money, J., 1970; Buhrich, N., Bailey, J.M. & Martin, N.G., 1991; Meyer-Bahlburg, H.F.L., 1977; Taylor, C.C., 1972; Bailey, J.M., Pillard, R.C.,
            Neale, & Agyei, Y., 1993; Baron, M., 1993; King, M. & McDonald, E., 1992; Pillard, R.C. & Bailey, J.M., 1998; Bailey, J.M., Pillard, Dawood, K., Miller, M.B., Farrer, L.A., Trivedi, S., & Murphy, R.L., 1999.

            [41] Cameron, P. & Cameron, K., 1995; Humphries, L., 1972; Allen, C., 1961; Dank, B.M., 1972; Friedberg, R.L., 1975; Rosa, H.L., 1971; Buntzly, G., 1993.

            [42]Isay, R.A., 1998.

            [43]Boddy, D., 1992.

            [44]Money, J., 1971.

            [45]Zlotlow, M. & Paganini, A.E., 1958, p. 497.

            [46] Muller, D., 1978; Muller, D., Orthner, H., Roeder, F., Konig, A. & Boss, K., 1974; Roeder, F. & Muller, D., 1969; Muller, D., Fritz, R. & Orthner, H., 1973.

            [47]Schmidt, G. & Schorsch, E., 1981.

            [48]Money, J., 1998; Bradley, S.J., Oliver, G.D., Chernick, A.B., & Zucker, K.J., 1998.

            [49] Marlowe, W.B., Mancall, E.L. & Thomas,
            J.J., 1975; Miller, B.L., Cummings, J.L., McIntyre, H., Ebers, G. & Grode, M., 1986.

            55 Swaab, D.F., Gooren, L.J. & Hofman, M.A.,
            1992; Swaab, D.F. & Hofman, M.A., 1988; Hofman, M.A. & Swaab, D.F., 1991; Witelson, S.F., 1991; Paul W., Weinrich, J.D., Gonsiorek, J.C. & Hotvedt, M.E., 1982.

            56 Freund, K., 1967, p. 209; Hess, E.H., Seltzer, A.L. & Shlien, J.M., 1965, p. 165; McConaghy, N., 1967, 1970,
            & 1978; Solyom, L. & Miller, S., 1965, p. 147; Adams, H.E., Motsinger, P., McAnulty, R.D. & Moore, A.S., 1992.

            57 Canton-Durati, A., 1974; Feldman, M.P. & McCullough, M.J., 1964; McConaghy, N. Armstrong, M.S. & Blaszczynski, A., 1981.

            58Turner, R.K., Pielmaler, H., James, S. & Orwin, A., 1974.

            59 Solyom, L. & Miller, S., 1965; McConaghy, N., 1976; Tanner, B.A., 1974, pp. 29-32; Callahan, E.J. & Leitenberg, H.,
            1973.

            60 Sansweet, S.J., 1975.

            61Silverstein, C., 1977; Halleck, S.L., 1971; Davison, G.G., 1976.

          • disqus_N9Jawtu8Uw

            Your opening paragraph is pointlessly rude and you succeeded in proving my point with your incomplete references to the science by proving that homosexuality is a lot more that just genetics. Well done.

            Next time stick to a sentence rather than lots of words masquerading as science.

          • DuneDude

            Those are scientific articles and are not masquerading as anything else. You obviously have never read the literature. So how would you know. I bet you have never been in a biomedical library in your life. If so, tell me when and where.

          • T C

            And these are the same “scientific” articles that used to say homosexuality was aberrant. Hmm, they change like the wind.

      • TellUWut

        You get that the past was pretty brutal and savage right?

        • The Last Trump

          The past? Take a look outside right now. Or turn on the news. What a mess. But not so long ago America was considered ” a shining city on a hill” that people all over the world longed to belong to. And it is a matter of historical record that it was Christian people in Christian nations who abolished slavery, established laws protecting individual rights, elevated the status of women, protected the rights of children, established unprecedented worldwide humanitarian organizations like The Red Cross and The Salvation Army, and inspired some of the greatest works of art, architecture, music, and literature the world has ever seen. Now that we’ve abandoned the God who blessed us so richly America is falling apart. With ridiculous issues like this one taking priority over the stock-piling list of serious issues facing the country. The future is going to be more brutal and savage than you or I can possibly imagine. We kicked God out and He has graciously stepped aside and left us to our ruin. But why argue? Let’s just wait and see, shall we?

          • C.P. Steinmetz

            And it is a matter of historical record that it was Christian people in Christian nations who kept slavery going in the U.S.. Christians also viewed children as property within the last hundred years.
            And, if God can be kicked out so easily, that doesn’t say much for his omnipotence.

          • The Last Trump

            Try as you might, you just can’t change the facts. Christians abolished slavery and protected the rights of children. The rest of the world still hasn’t caught up with us in safeguarding human rights and the extraordinary lengths we’ve gone to for child protection and welfare. And God, gracious as He is, allows us free will. If we don’t want Him around, fine by Him. Let’s see how we make out without His blessings and protection. You might want to take a look around though. But I guess you figure our past success is just a coincidence. We accomplished all of that on our own, right? Just happened to be worshipping the God of the Bible, celebrating Christmas and Easter in every level of society and government, and honouring God each Sunday in the thousands of Churches on every corner of every town and city in America. Ya, gotta be coincidence.

    • aservant

      Completely disgusting comment.

      • DuneDude

        No more disgusting than evangelical Christians and their fake religion of greed and Mammon.

        • aservant

          Not going to get down in the mud with you friend, but I’ll give you a hand up any time.

  • penguincompassion

    I believe Christians who feel the need to help this couple should with prayer and contributions. They’ll need a lift up.

    • BarkingDawg

      That may provide some short term relief, but long term, they need to learn how to run a buisness in compliance with the law.

      • penguincompassion

        But what happens if the law is messed up? The law isn’t exactly 100 percent foolproof.

        • BarkingDawg

          This one is pretty basic.

          You can not discriminate against someone for their sexual orientation.

          I really can’t understand why some people have such a hard time with that.

          • T C

            And the law used to be that anyone practicing sodomy was to be arrested. I liked that law. But you would have a problem with it wouldn’t you? Could’ve said back then, well, it was the law and you would’ve squawked big time.

          • Alvin Chipmunk

            People can’t also discriminate against religious practices. Had those same owners known that they were just there to order baked goods for any purposes and that they were gay, than they would’ve served them. Why did they visit them to make a wedding cake? If they didn’t like being turned down, then perhaps they could’ve went to another business who would’ve supplied their wishes. It’s that easy.

          • BarkingDawg

            Exhibiting hatred for a customer is not a smart business practice.

      • Alvin Chipmunk

        In compliance to the new standard law, and this law is contrary to the freedom of religion that’s guaranteed. So, no, their spiritual convictions trump a law that is passed that reserves enhanced punishment for those who disagree with the homosexual agenda.

        • BarkingDawg

          Freedom of religion =/= freedom to discriminate.

    • The Last Trump

      Government needs to be reminded by the MILLIONS of Christian voters in the country that NO FINE better be implemented for sticking up for ones convictions.

      • Sherry Taylor-Jackson

        The Last Trump; I’m sure you’d agree with me….This couple is standing up for the law. God’s Law, that is. God’s Law supersedes the Laws of any land, country, or nation.

        • BarkingDawg

          Gods law says don’t wear clothing of mixed fibers.

          • Wootsauce

            Sigh… When are you guys gonna let that one go. Some things in Leviticus and Exodus are SPECIFICALLY for the Jews in that time period. Some stayed around. Unfortunately, discernment of Scripture is a by-product of the Holy Spirit. Those that don’t have it will struggle immensely to understand.

          • BarkingDawg

            Ah I see.

            It’s cafeteria Christianity.

          • Wootsauce

            Whatever do you mean?

          • BarkingDawg

            Seriously?

            You are unfamiliar with the term?

          • Wootsauce

            Yep. I am.

          • James Grimes

            See what I mean? They (actually he) just will never understand.

          • Richard Thompson

            Some things in Leviticus and Exodus are SPECIFICALLY for the Jews in that time period

            Wait, I missed that verse. Which one says “the former verse applies specifically to Jews living at this time”?

          • Wootsauce

            Read my later post about discernment.

          • MC

            Gee, have you read the first 5 books of the Bible? I’ll give you a hint, it’s about the ancient Israelites. There’s the ceremonial law, which was temporary, and it was for the ancient Israelites only, it includes Temple sacrifices and mixed fabrics, foods, etc. And there’s the judicial law, which was for the ancient Israelites only, which was temporary because we live in modern day America and we have different laws and punishments. And the only law left is the most important one, God’s unchanging Moral Law, and that law is for EVERYONE, believers and nonbelievers. It includes everything that has to do with morality, and that includes, murder, stealing, homosexual acts, adultery, drunkenness, lying, All sins, etc. It’s unchanging because it’s part of God’s character. It’s where our morality comes from.

          • James Grimes

            Your explanation is a good one, but still too difficult for Atheists to understand.

          • Reinhold Von Kirschmann

            Let that one go? So you can pick and choose what the bible says? Awesome

          • Bruce Morrow

            Who was the commandment written to?

          • T C

            The Jews.

          • T C

            You’re barking up the wrong tree. Those laws were a precursor to the New Testament to show that God is a holy God and has rigorous commands. These commands man cannot keep perfectly. The New Testament clearly states the “old” law is passed away. It’s Bible 101, but nice try.

        • Richard Thompson

          Which God?

          • T C

            The God who made heaven and earth and all that is in it.

      • BarkingDawg

        Millions more in this country think it is wrong to discriminate against someone based on who they love.

        • The Last Trump

          Sorry my friend. Sex and love are too very different concepts. Never heard of homolovuality. We can love one another without misusing our bodies for mere pleasure. Basic anatomy. A child could figure this stuff out.

          • Toni Coughlin

            If god supposedly makes all things, and did not want homosexuality, then why would he make homosexuality? Further, why would he make things feel good up the butt? Basic anatomy says nerve clusters feel good to play with…

          • Ziggy

            God did not “make” homosexuality.” Homosexuality is an action “made” by the sinfulness of man…….A lot of things feel good that are harmful; heroin, sex with an aids patient, cuddling with a hungry lion, etc…….Basic anatomy tells us that the anus is not built for penetration. Any more silly questions.

          • DuneDude

            If you weren’t so uneducated and ignorant as your comments prove, there would be something to talk about. And comparing sexual orientation to issues of choice and not natural to some at birth is another evangelical red herring.

          • Toni Coughlin

            So… Is your god all-powerful (meaning no homosexuality), or did your god just fail to realize his intended design? Basic anatomy tells us that the anus is a nerve cluster and that it’s built for pleasurable penetration for a lot of men and women.

          • Agitator9

            One word: Eww.
            And your twisting of basic anatomy and physiology is the very definition of “perversion” of the truth. Basic anatomy tells us the exact opposite: that the anus was not made for penetration but for defecation. Forget the Bible; go read a biology textbook.

          • MC

            “If god supposedly makes all things, and did not want homosexuality, then why would he make homosexuality?”

            God did not make homosexuality, that came after the fall of man and evil rules the world.

            “Further, why would he make things feel good up the butt? Basic anatomy says nerve clusters feel good to play with…”

            Pedophiles say it feels good to have sex with children, does that make it right and moral? Crackheads say smoking crack feels good, does that make it right? Your argument is illogical and can be dismissed.

          • Toni Coughlin

            So… Why does your god make all of these things feel good? It sounds like your god intended for pedophilia to happen. Your god is a pretty shitty dude, I think.

          • MC

            You sure you want to stick to your illogical argument? But thank you for admitting you think pedophilia is fine. I hope you don’t procreate.

          • Toni Coughlin

            Your god makes pedophiles, and he works in mysterious ways, right?

          • MC

            I’m sorry you’re lonely.

          • Toni Coughlin

            *married 😉

          • MC

            Uh huh, sure.

          • Toni Coughlin

            you mad, bro 🙂

          • MC

            “you mad, bro”

            Ah, so you ARE a 12 year old boy who plays video games.

          • Toni Coughlin

            i’ll take that as a yes

          • MC

            That you are a 12 year old boy? Yes.

          • Toni Coughlin

            boy???

          • T C

            Our God gave you life. He must be very patient and merciful to put up with the likes of you.

          • Toni Coughlin

            Thor?

          • T C

            Who might that be?

  • Agitator9

    I am not a lawyer, but that lawsuit against the Kleins strikes me as completely frivolous. The law clearly states “public accommodations” cannot be denied; it says nothing about private vendors, who can serve whomever they wish. If an objectionable individual comes into your establishment, you can ask him/her to leave without providing any argument other than that you don’t want him in your store. I am trusting they will win on appeal. The bullying tactics of these homosexual hypocrites are completely despicable, and the Kleins should definitely bring countersuit against them for harassment and as many other counts as possible.

    • SFBruce

      I’m not a lawyer either, but the legal issues here are pretty straight-forward. Oregon defines a place of public accommodation as “Any place or service offering to the public accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges whether in the nature of goods, services, lodgings, amusements, transportation or otherwise.” Obviously, the Kleins’ bakery would fall in this category. Certainly, a business owner can deny service to someone who’s making a public disturbance, but in Oregon, if the basis of the objection is the individual’s sexual orientation or the individual’s race, that business will be in some legal trouble, as the Kleins have discovered.

      • Agitator9

        That’s a pretty broad definition of “public accommodation”; would any business NOT fall into this category? It would appear not. Reading those terms more narrowly, wedding catering does not necessarily fall under the definition of an “accommodation, advantage, facility, or privilege,” but is merely a private good/service package. Nevertheless, the Kleins didn’t refuse all service to the customers on the basis of sexual orientation; they simply refused to provide the specific service of a wedding cake. Is the state of Oregon now in the business of forcing private enterprises to perform specific services to specific clients/customers? What about Muslim business owners who would object probably much more strenuously to providing services of this kind? I doubt this is a correct legal interpretation of a private business’s responsibility to the public.

        • BarkingDawg

          “What about Muslim business owners who would object probably much more strenuously to providing services of this kind?”

          =========
          If any exist, then yes they would be in violation of the law.

          You need to provide a specific example of a Muslim owned business discriminating against someone.

        • BarkingDawg

          What about businesses that cater to gay/lesbian clientele? Are they immune from such “laws”?

          ==========
          No they are not immune. If a business that caters to gay/lesbian clientele were to refuse to provide the same services to straight clients, then that business would be in violation of the law.

          It is perfectly OK to cater to a particular protected class as a market sector as a marketing strategy, but you can not refuse to provide the same services to other protected classes of clients.

        • BarkingDawg

          Is the state of Oregon now in the business of forcing private enterprises to perform specific services to specific clients/customers?

          ======
          Yes. If a business provides a service to one set of a protected class, then they have to provide the same service to all sets of that protected class.

          They can’t, for example, sell wedding cakes only to Christians.

        • BarkingDawg

          From the Oregon Revised Statutes

          § 659A.400¹
          Place of public accommodation defined
          (1) A place of public accommodation, subject to the exclusions in subsection (2) of this section, means:
          (a) Any place or service offering to the public accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges whether in the nature of goods, services, lodgings, amusements, transportation or otherwise.

    • Liberal in Vermont

      “They had no contract of any kind with this couple; what makes the latter think they are entitled to service?”

      Wrong, they used the bakery often and were regular customers. Did you even read the article?

  • Sherry Taylor-Jackson

    God bless them for standing their ground; giving God all the glory due his name. May God multiply a thousand times back to them, from what the enemy stole. In Jesus Precious Name…AMEN!!!

  • Beth St George

    The Klein’s knowingly broke Washington State non-discrimination laws. The penalties which companies face for not abiding by state laws are made very clear when you accept a business license. Their bankruptcy is of their own doing.

    • Nedd Kareiva

      You got the wrong state; try reading the article again.

      • Beth St George

        Correct… I was typing in a hurry… Regardless, the facts are clear in this case and the Klein’s are guilty of violating the terms of their business license and Oregon law…

  • Nedd Kareiva

    Stand firm, Aaron & Melissa! Do not pay under any circumstances. Force the state tyrants to arrest you. And contact a legal group like Liberty Council or the ACLJ to defend you. Do not go it alone. Lots of us got your back in prayer. We love you.

    • Beth St George

      You do realize that a business license belongs to the state and not the business owner, right? You also realize that when you accept a business license, you either swear or affirm to abide by state law, each time you accept or renew the business license. The Klein’s knowingly broke state law and are suffering the consequences.

      • The Last Trump

        And the state law broke God’s law. You don’t break God’s laws. God’s laws break you. The United States is finished and everyone can sense it.

        • Beth St George

          The anti-discrimination laws were passed with broad support of residents of Oregon, passed the Oregon State House, passed the Oregon State Senate, and signed in to law by the Oregon Governor. The majority of the residents of Oregon are Christian. It seems that they disagree with you…

          Btw… The United States of America is a nation who laws are passed, in accordance with our Constitution, and not in accordance with the Bible. That would make us a Democracy and not a Theocracy…

          • The Last Trump

            I guess you hadn’t noticed all those Christian churches on every corner of every town and city in America. Or that the holidays you’ve had off your entire life growing up in America happened to be Christian holidays. Like it or not, America WAS a Christian nation. And any so-called Christians who disregard the laws of God and support or pass legislation contrary to His will, don’t disagree with me. They disagree with Him. Not my problem. That’s America’s problem. Good luck with that. Future not quite so bright for America today as it once was. Must be a coincidence…

          • penguincompassion

            “The majority of the residents of Oregon are Christian.” Nope, wrong again. Oregon is one of the least churched states in the US alongside Washington, California, and Alaska. It’s also among the least in the percentage of Christians. Many Christians here that claim Christianity as their religion don’t clearly understand Scripture as a whole. If they did, they would know to love and support a fellow brother and sister in Christ.

            Also, it may surprise you that our Constitution is in accordance with the Bible. The so-called separation of church and state is so that we don’t have a nationalized religion much like what England had at the time it was written.

        • BarkingDawg

          So you want the US to be ruled by “God’s Law” is that it? It sounds like you want a theocracy like Iran.

          • The Last Trump

            We actually end up in a monarchy. Democracies always fail and end up in tyranny. Just need the right King. Good news is there is one coming!

      • Nedd Kareiva

        Can you cite me Oregon code and law on that, Beth? Last I checked, we still have a 1st Amendment right to freedom of religion. I suspect that you may be a lesbo, which is why you have made the case you’re trying to. That aside, we’re not talking about people with immutable characteristics, like skin color. We’re talking about whom they share specific genital acts with, something fully changeable.

        A Libertarian friend of mine (ironically from Washington state, specifically Poulsbo) told me (not verbatim) the most these two lesbos should get in damages is $1 and that for gas money to visit another baker or to make a call to another. That’s what they should have done rather than subscribe to state tyranny, which Oregon is doing.

        No one has a right to force anyone to do business with them. A business start up takes responsibility to make sure his or her business is safe, in compliance with established health laws and to pay a fair/reasonable assessment of taxes. To compel someone to do business against their conscience on moral matters like this is an abomination, the same way homosexual behavior is an affront to the Almighty (though fully forgivable via repentance from sin and faith in Christ).

        • Beth St George

          I see that you have conveniently chosen to ignore two key aspects of this issue. 1) The business license belongs to the state and not the business owner(s). 2) In order for this business to claim a “religious exemption”, they would have to also discriminate against anybody who doesn’t conform to their religious views, i.e. anybody who had premarital sex, a child out of wedlock, an abortion, worked on the sabbath, etc… Since they only chose to discriminate against members of the LGBT community, they cannot use Religion.

          • Nedd Kareiva

            You’ve conveniently chosen to deflect the point about where it is in Oregon law that businesses must be forced to do business with others. The 1st Amendment is the 1st Amendment for a reason; it trumps all laws that interfere with liberty, including whatever one Oregon may have (which you have yet to cite). Religious freedom trumps whatever sexual conduct you may wish the state to sanction.

            The exemptions you listed are not on appearance noticeable. A customer may come into a business and unless they were specifically asked (which would be most unusual to do) or volunteered the info, you wouldn’t know one had premarital sex, an out of wedlock child or abortion. But it is much easier to detect (especially if there is upfront blatant kissing & affection) two homos or lesbo seeking something that they know the proprietor may be uncomfortable with. They usually come to agitate to push the DHBT (Dyke, Homo, Bi, Tranny) agenda.

            Anyway, since you previously thought this was in Washington state, you may want to take a look at that state’s generous position in its constitution on religious freedom. Despite the state going after a Christian florist in litigation, the state is being countersued by the Alliance Defending Freedom on grounds of the state’s generous position on religious liberty. Look it up.

            Sorry, no sale.

          • BarkingDawg

            § 659A.403¹
            Discrimination in place of public accommodation prohibited
            (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, all persons within the jurisdiction of this state are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of any place of public accommodation, without any distinction, discrimination or restriction on account of race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, marital status or age if the individual is 18 years of age or older.

          • Liberal in Vermont

            Thanks, Dawg, you stopped me from having to cut and paste again. At least I know there is someone else on this thread that is based in reality.

          • Nedd Kareiva

            You might want to read the previous post, chihuahua. The 1st Amendment supercedes whatever may be written in state law. If Oregon doesn’t like it, maybe it should leave the United States.

          • BarkingDawg

            That first amendment argument was tried by the people who supported anti-miscegenation laws It didn’t work then either.

          • Nedd Kareiva

            Uh, skin color is immutable, chihuahua. Choosing whom to have sex with is not. As the father of an interracial autistic child (mom is black), I find your old stale useless “miscegenation” argument offensive. Many homos have left that lifestyle. Google Stephen Bennett, someone I have personal met on several occasions & consider a friend. He is one. Look him up. He’ll engage you further on the discussion, if you like and if you want the truth.

            Now go back to your doghouse with a whimper.

          • SFBruce

            You’re claim that religious liberty trumps all other rights is simply wrong. If that were true, a person could commit murder, then claim their religion demanded human sacrifice. As fundamental as the right of freedom of conscience is, it’s not absolute.

            In this particular case, I don’t see that the Kleins’ religious freedom was compromised at all. Certainly, they’re not being forced to marry someone of the same sex, they’re not being forced to attend or approve of this couple, they’re not being forced to like or, beyond selling them a cake, even associate with the couple. In the state of Oregon, if you open your business to the public, that public needs to include LGBT people.

          • Nedd Kareiva

            Forced transaction? Really, SFB? So you’re telling me you would compel these folks to violate their conscience (and the 1st Amendment) in order to take the sexually misguided tyrants’ money in order to make a cake they feel uncomfortable with?

            I am happy to open my business to anyone, including fags, dykes and others with certain unnatural sexual preferences. They’re fully free to step thru my door like anyone else. I would not place a sign on my door denying anyone’s right to access. But once access is obtained, if I choose not to take their money, for whatever reason, that’s my business. It is no different than if someone asked me to make an enormous cake for a certain wedding reception that would consume too much of my time, manpower and bring little or no profit in return. My choice? Do you get it?

            The 1st Amendment trumps ALL, that’s why it’s the 1st & not 2nd Amendment, 10th, 15th or other one down the line. Congress (and in turn any president, governor or legislative body) cannot deny one’s right to practice one’s religion as he or she sees fit. The amendment reads:

            Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof….. “Prohibiting the free exercise” does not solely mean when such expression is confined to inside church walls or any other building used for religious purposes. It means when one is asked to do something whose religious conscience will not permit it. It is NO different than when the Quakers (now & in the past) obtained religious exemptions from going to war. Being that the Quakers are a peace religion, the government could not compel them to take up arms when its collective conscience flew in the face of what it was being asked to do.

            The Kleins have a right that the state of Oregon cannot force them to violate. Since religion and morality are always in conflict with sexual behavior, there will always be clashes. Sexual conduct can never supercede the religious freedom mandate of the 1st Amendment. If the Kleins had not only told the sexual pervs that not only do they have the right to deny them the right to hand over money to create something they morally oppose but threatened other businesses that might otherwise differ with them, I would stand with these misguided souls. But such was not the case. The Kleins should have, at most, given the dykes a buck or two for gas money to find another bakery to cater to them.

            BTW, you may want to read about this case not entirely dissimilar which told would be business customers that proprietors have no legal obligation to cater to them.

            https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/this-banquet-hall-was-sued-for-refusing-to-host-same-sex-weddings-and-won

            Lesson learnt.

          • SFBruce

            Saying something over and over doesn’t make it true. If the ability to practice one’s religion were absolute as you wrongly claim, a person could use it as a successful claim against any charge. “I know I killed that man, your honor, but my religion demands human sacrifice and since religious liberty trumps everything, including the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of my human victim, you have to let me off.” Do you really think that would fly? Is that the country you want to live in?

            I’m familiar with the story you’ve linked to, and that’s another pretty straight-forward legal matter that involves same sex marriage only tangentially. The couple (heterosexual) wanted a deposit back once they found out the venue they had booked didn’t cater to same sex couples. Since I support same sex marriage, I’m always happy to see others join that, but they violated their contract with the service provider and had no right to their deposit back.

          • Nedd Kareiva

            Sounds like in your 1st paragraph you’re somewhat talking about the so-called “religion of peace” (AKA Islam), would I be correct? They do this stuff (killing in the name of Allah), you do know that, right?

            If not, perhaps you could do some research on any Christians publicly advocating murder. Good luck on that one.

          • SFBruce

            Terrorism isn’t what I had specifically in mind, but I’m glad to see you’re coming around to the fact that religious freedom isn’t absolute. Muslim Americans have the same guarantee of religious freedom as any other American; however, surely we can agree that Jacob Muriithi, the man arrested for beheading a co-worker in Oklahoma, couldn’t and shouldn’t use unfetterred religious liberty as a defense.

          • Nedd Kareiva

            Most definitely (last sentence) but correction, Murithi was the one who threatened to behead a coworker. The other guy (Alton Nolen) was the one who did what he did. Anything less than his execution is completely unacceptable.

            Religious freedom excludes threatening war against the U.S. which is what many Muslims do. The moment I hear a Christian doing so is where I call for his or her execution.

            Thanks for being civil in the face of disagreement. I appreciate that.

          • SFBruce

            You’re absolutely right: I did mix up Mirithi with Nolen. My apologies. But I’m glad you’ve finally acknowledged that freedom of religion doesn’t trump all other rights.

          • penguincompassion

            “1). The business license belongs to the state and not the business owner(s).” Hell NO. This ain’t communism. Whoever has a business, it is their’s to do with how they please. It wouldn’t bother me for instance if I wasn’t served because of whatever reason the owners deem it. I would just go to another business and they would lose a sale.

            Problem is that the owner’s themselves had their first amendment rights tramples upon by the gay community. They were being discriminated in the name of discrimination.

          • BarkingDawg

            It is within the established powers of the state to police buisness practices.

          • Alvin Chipmunk

            So, then it’s no different than communism. Loss of speech is against the First Amendment.

          • BarkingDawg

            What?

            What drivel are you ranting about now?

  • God-Loving-Christian

    May God forgive those fascists! Leave Christians alone. We don’t have to cater to your beliefs. Just leave us alone!

  • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EvidencefortheBible/ Galut1

    Unfortunately in situations like this the christian has three choices ,1 . comply 2 stand your ground ,3 stop baking wedding cakes period and bake only generic cakes and pastries and the first one is not an option for the committed christian . by not doing wedding cakes period it takes the issue off the table . if there is no discrimination issue …no judge can force you to make the product against your will.

  • daniel

    stupid homo.

    • BarkingDawg

      Stupid argument.

  • daniel

    business is business, put up a smile and forget about it.

    • BarkingDawg

      Nothing personal, it’s just buisness

      Fugettaboutit.

  • Haqodeshim

    When your Government’s god is money, soon it is not just interested in forcing a small Christian business baker or florist to provide baked goods or floral arrangements for homosexuals marriage ceremonies, thus violating the first amendment, it moves for your children’s souls too!

    http://www.rightwingnews.com/uncategorized/ny-middle-school-forces-girls-to-ask-one-another-for-lesbian-kiss-and-pretend-like-they-are-on-a-date/

    Some production companies and some popular books, sell the notion that the Beast is coming and the last days are about to come, but in reality, they are already here.

    1% of America’s wealthy are millionaires or greater in wealth. 50% of the 1% reside in the SEVEN counties surrounding Washington, DC. So our Government is no longer a Republic, but rather a shadow illusion of one. What we have is an oligarchy that does not represent the 99% of the rest of the country.

    The current argument over homosexuality began with our Progressive Government, who’d much rather talk about it rather than reform taxation so marriage is not at the center of it as Rand Paul suggested before the Supreme Courts enabling of the Progressive agenda, nor stop the Progressive Government’s enslavement of the populace with their overspending; no instead they throw out the red herring of homosexual rights to redefine marriage which is none of their business instead of reforming themselves, their overspending and abusive taxation. They’ll push the homosexual agenda through the eye of the needle and strain out a gnat rather then pass a constitutional amendment requiring a balanced budget,so if you didn’t know what the Progressives agenda was before, you do now.

    The SEVEN hills of Babylon/Rome from Revelation are alive and well in the SEVEN counties surrounding Washington, DC, and they worship the BEAST/”love of money”!

    13“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other,or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”

    14 The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. 15 He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight. – Luke 16 NIV; http://bible.com/111/luk.16.13-15.niv

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/george-walter-bratcher-iii/are-you-serving-god-or-money/10152129277556373

  • Reason2012

    Jesus pointed out that marriage is between one man and one woman:

    Matthew 19:4-6 “And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus even points out that for the cause of making them male and female, this is why male will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife.

    Mark 10:5-7 “And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. (6) But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (7) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;”

    Jesus said God made them male and female – not male and male – not female and female.

    Jesus said man shall leave father and mother, not father and father, not mother and mother.

    Jesus said man shall cleave to his wife, not to his husband, not to her wife.

    Not to mention Jesus is God, so the entire Word of God is the Words of Christ. As Jesus is The Word.

    John 1:1-3 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) The same was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

    John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

    The Lord rebukes us for our attempts to destroy what He defined as one man and one woman.

    It doesn’t work anymore to call any who do not agree with the attempts of activists to legally re-define morals as having a phobia or being a bigot – people are realizing those are the only hateful actions here.

    We need to get back to the truth of God.

    May God / Jesus Christ be glorified.

    • TellUWut

      Where’s the passage about selling cake?

      • BarkingDawg

        Rallph 2:88-2 “And Jesus Purchased a Six Layer Wedding Cake from a Gay Baker, And it was good.”

        Everyone forgets about the Gospel According to Ralph.

        • SashaC

          This particular scripture has seen me through my darkest days. Amen.

  • Reason2012

    And this is no more discrimination than a black baker that has no problem baking cakes for white people, but refuses to bake a caked for the act of a kkk_meeting. Similarly, these bakers have no problem baking cakes for those who profess homosexuality, but cannot be forced to bake a cake to support the act of a wedding that is not one man and one woman. It’s a violation of a Christians’ civil rights and religious freedoms.

    • BarkingDawg

      As the KKK is not a protected class, your argument fails.

      • Reason2012

        White people are a protected class, black people are a protected class, yet it’s not discrimination b/c they are not forced to promote ACTS.

        • BarkingDawg

          I am not sure what you are talking about when you say.

          yet it’s not discrimination b/c they are not forced to promote ACTS.

          Pleas clarify what you mean in that sentence.

          Thanks.

          • Reason2012

            To bake a cake for an ACT is in effect condoning such an act. As a silly example: If you bake a cake for a party where they will celebrate how they think a certain person is fat, for you to bake that cake knowing that’s what the cake is for is akin to you thinking there’s nothing wrong with such a “party”, in effect endorsing it. Most people would refuse to bake a cake if it was made known that’s what it’s for. Hope this helps.

  • Ed Kuchmy

    When theses law were coming out it was not to discriminate against ones religious belief but the lied about that. The say that just to get the law passed and then the homosexual groups purposely go to christian businesses just to force them to change the stance on their beliefs. Just as JESUS said As it was in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah so shall it be in the coming of the Son of Man so judgement is coming. If Muslims did this the government would not do to much because they are afraid of them so perilous times are here and will continue to the END

    • BarkingDawg

      If Muslims did this the government would not do to much because they are afraid of them

      ========
      Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

      • Ed Kuchmy

        Look around my friend the government of the west bends over backwards for Muslims they can say and do what they want and nothing is done because of Political correctness. An example recently a Guy cuts a women’s head off and cry allah ackbar and they call it work place violence or a Major in the US army does the same and call it the same, PC not terrorism. If Christians did this you would not hear the end of it. So just look at the BIAS out there.

        • BarkingDawg

          But the criminals in your two examples are being prosecuted to the full extent of the law, are they not?

          Your complaint is of the labels used to describe them. Big deal.

          They are not receiving any special treatment, and neither are the Kleins.

          • Ed Kuchmy

            If you watch closely they are being charged with workplace violence and not terrorism because of their religion and that being Muslim. The Obama administration as well as any Government agencies do everything they can to make Islam, a so called religion of peace. They candy coat it when these things happen and they try to tell us this is not Islam that they are just radicals but the truth is they are only doing what the Koran says. MY point is that nothing would be done or in fact the homosexual groups won’t not even attempt to them because in most Islamic countries they would be dead.

          • BarkingDawg

            They are being charged with murder.

            They can’t be charges under Federal terrorism charges because that crime only applies to acts committed outside the US.

            http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332

  • ProclaimingGodsTruth

    Lord God, we pray for their protection and we pray a special blessing on their business. May you continue to grant them peace and prosperity amidst this terrible persecution. Amen.
    We even pray for their enemies as the scripture commands.

    • 211Nickey

      You are so blind.

      Can you not see that this is wrong? Imagine if you were rejected service because your beliefs.

      • ProclaimingGodsTruth

        My sight is rooted in the truth and that is in God’s Holy word – the Bible.

        And yours…?

        • 211Nickey

          My sight is rooted in my own sight, Not controlled by a being that is not proven to exist, My sight is based on research and history and evidence taken from the years.

          This is your sight: “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18”

          • ProclaimingGodsTruth

            Believe then what you want.

  • KIEL KIEL

    Tolerance was not the right thing to do for the Kleins and they did the right thing as they did not want to participate in such an event thereby tolerating the acts they personally consider not biblical. Where is the respect of the Kleins’ rights when they were slapped with discrimination charges? If they have been discriminating homosexuals they could have banned selling cakes to them all along which was not the case. This country is going nuts considering the constitution was founded based on the word of God. I have nothing against homosexuals and I accept them but I believe the Kleins deserve respect of their personal beliefs as well.

    • C.P. Steinmetz

      the constitution was founded based on the word of God.
      Not so:
      1. No mention of Christianity or the Christian ‘God’ or Jesus in either the Declaration of Independence, or the Constitution.
      2. The Treaty of Tripoli specifically says the country was not founded on the Christian religion.

      • The Last Trump

        So your government, businesses, and schools did or did not close for Christmas and Easter? Exactly. Let`s stop pretending. America was absolutely a Christian nation. The list of presidents that promoted and supported reading the Bible is too long to even attempt to list. Christian churches on every street corner in every town and city in America. The Lord`s Prayer taught to every child in public schools. The Ten Commandments posted in government buildings and courthouses. Regular calls for open prayers in government meetings and times of war and uncertainty. Such as D-Day in June 1944 when Americans were advised by their president and other government officials to pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to see America through to victory. Please. I hardly need to go on. Ridiculous argument. Sad that I even have to respond to such nonsense. Uneducated or will-full blindness.

  • TellUWut

    You broke the law. The end. If you want a business license, you follow the laws that go along with it. Don’t like the laws of running a business, don’t run a business smart guy.

  • TellUWut

    “I’m so mad that these people have to follow state business laws that I only don’t care about because they don’t protect me specifically! Why don’t people get to decide what laws apply to them based on their religions?” – You guys.

  • James Johnson
    • BarkingDawg

      KaCHING!

      I knew that would happen. They are crying all the way to the bank.

      • James Johnson

        I set this up to help them. I have nothing to gain. I’m just trying to help my brother and sister in Christ out.

        • 211Nickey

          But… Your not sister and brother, your not related!

          *laugh track*

  • Sha-wei

    Evidently, the Kleins infringed one of the laws of their home state in refusing a service
    to a prospective customer on the basis of the latter’s upcoming “marriage” plans, the tenor of which conflicted with the Kleins’ moral worldview. But it is in the nature of laws which seek to protect equality among the various demographic sectors in a society that legal “blind spots” are created, and these can be prejudicially manipulated by one group over another (oft-times with the acquiescence of the pertinent powers-that-be).

    Consequently, the “right to not be discriminated against” of the complainant takes precedence over the “freedom of conscience” of the potential providers that would have had the latter merely acting – barring the infliction of harm or loss on the former
    – according to the tenets of their religion. And arguably, any tort ensuing was of an ideological or subjective-affective quality, and in no way injurious to the person, property or reputation of the would-be customer. Nevertheless, the blind spot in the respective statute is being exploited to full effect by those who are unwilling to countenance any conscientious objections to their chosen lifestyles.

    All this is done in consonance with The Law. And that is nothing new. In fact, social
    phenomena like the one which now occupies us have recurred throughout history, and
    no less so in the case of those erstwhile (and neo-)subversives called “Christians”. As is anticipated by the fatalistic yet prescient Philosopher that penned the Book of Ecclesiastes, “what has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun”. Let us consider an aptly relevant example in the history of the early church:

    Nearly fourteen decades before the universal Decius Edict of 249-250 CE was passed requiring a public profession of loyalty to the Roman Emperor and an affirmation of the social order then extant, with its pantheon of gods – preternatural demiurges and arbiters – at its apex, the Christian citizens of the Roman province of Bithynia had already faced an uncompromising test of their faith. This was supplied, with all the appurtenances of the law, by imperial magistrate Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus, better known to history as Pliny the Younger who, in a letter to the emperor Trajan,
    detailed his exertions in maintaining the politically- and religiously-correct status quo:

    “…For the moment this is the line I have taken with all persons brought before me on the charge of being Christians. I have asked them in person if they are Christians, and if they admit it, I repeat the question a second and third time, with a warning of the punishment awaiting them. If they persist, I order them to be led away for execution; for, whatever the nature of their admission, I am convinced that their stubbornness and unshakeable obstinacy ought not to go unpunished…”

    “Amongst these I considered that I should dismiss any who denied that they were or ever had been Christians when they had repeated after me a formula of invocation to the gods and had made offerings of wine and incense to your statue (which I had ordered to be brought into court for this purpose along with the images of the gods), and furthermore had reviled the name of Christ: none of which things, I understand, any genuine Christian can be induced to do…”

    We see, then, that in the early years of the Christian faith, choosing to follow The Way over the establishment’s exigencies for social conformity was a literal life-or-death proposition that revolved around pagan worship. Now, in the early 21st century, the litmus test of faith for loyal Christians is coalescing around the implicit acceptance of homosexual idiosyncrasies. And, moreover, secular society is joined even by Christ-professing churches in requiring obeisance to the spirit of Tolerance, but this “tolerance” is invariably weighted against conscientious objectors to homosexuality. A
    fiery ordeal thus descends on the modern followers of Jesus as “Homosexualism becomes the New Paganism”.

    • BarkingDawg

      Tl;dr

      • Sha-wei

        1 Pet. 4:12-13, 16-17.

  • Richard Thompson

    What’s next? Forcing us to serve blah people?

    • BarkingDawg

      What’s next? Forcing us to serve blah people?

      Or worse – ho hum couples!

  • GI_jayne

    I don’t feel bad for them at all. I can assure you that they made cakes for Muslim marriages, Buddhist marriages, etc. I assure you they even took money from someone who has had an abortion, but all of a sudden a gay couple wants them to make a cake and they become so religious that they can’t in good conscious accept the gay couple’s money? Personally if I was the gay couple I wouldn’t want to use my hard earned money on a bigot business owner, but that’s just me. One less business open owned by bigots, sounds great to me.

  • Michael Senesac

    They would have received the same fine had they discriminated against a mixed race couple or a disabled person.

  • 211Nickey

    They deserved the bankruptcy

    Nobody should be rejected of service because the shop owners don’t agree with what their beliefs are.

  • Ziggy

    I have yet to see the point made in these posts that it is not a case of discrimination, but a case of control. Clearly these bakers do not discriminate against homosexuals as they have many homosexual customers. It’s a case of a minority group wanting to control the majority. It’s a case of a group wanting to dictate what another group can and cannot do. The homosexual community is going to lash out at anybody who disagrees with their lifestyle in an attempt to force acceptance of their lifestyle. But why the need for acceptance? As a Christian who believes in traditional marriage I could care less if someone accepts my view. I know in my heart it is correct. There is no need to “force” others to accept it. The homosexual community needs this acceptance in order to justify what they know is a destructive and sinful lifestyle. I have had homosexual roommates and I see the pain the lifestyle causes. My heart goes out to them. They need to control others in order to feel right. It’s sad.

    • BarkingDawg

      Spin, Spin, Spin

      Give it up already. A court has determined that the Kleins violated Orrgon’s non-doscrimation law

      It’s as simple as that.

      Your elaborate attempt at justification is a big FAIL.

    • Sha-wei

      “The homosexual community needs this acceptance in order to justify what
      they know is a destructive and sinful lifestyle. I have had homosexual
      roommates and I see the pain the lifestyle causes. My heart goes out to
      them. They need to control others in order to feel right. It’s sad.”

      Although based largely on anecdotal evidence, your brief psycho-analysis of the homosexual mindset makes absolute sense. Good job! And your sympathy for the individuals caught in this wretched plight is likewise praiseworthy. God bless, Ziggy.

  • http://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/ Ted R. Weiland

    With America’s true 1600 Christian foundations in mind, how have we gotten to the place where America is being held hostage by a small percentage of perverts? There must be a defining moment in history when America’s Christian course was dramatically altered.

    That point in history was in 1787 when the constitutional framers replaced the 1600 governments of, by, and for God, based upon His immutable moral laws, for their own humanistic government of, by, and for the people, based upon Enlightenment and Masonic concepts.

    Had the late 1700 founders instead established government and society (like their 1600 Christian predecessors did, there was none of this in Christian Colonial America) on the Bible’s commandments, statutes, and judgments (including Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13), there would be no homosexual agenda in America today because no sodomite or lesbian would dare risk exposing themselves to petition the government for their “rights.”

    For more on these two antipodal governments, see blog article “375 Years Later: Constitution vs. Constitution.” Click on my name, then our website. Go to our Blog and scroll down to title.

  • Rev Donald Spitz

    Homosexuality should be criminalized. Homosexuality is a crime
    against God and against the Holy Bible. After reading this story I know why God
    wrote:

    Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of
    them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their
    blood shall be upon them.

    Romans 1:24
    Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own
    hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: :26 For this cause God
    gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural
    use into that which is against nature: :27 And likewise also the men, leaving
    the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with
    men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence
    of their error which was meet.

    • VIctor

      Do you stone your children too when they don’t obey you ?

  • http://www.seismicradio.org Seismic Radio

    Sad to see what has happened to America. I tend to think that true freedom should allow you to express your religious views without fear of persecution. It seems to have gone now in this nation. I think the founding father’s would turn in their graves. Now the penalty is a joke and doesn’t stand in any relation to the perceived crime. I see people beating other people to an inch of their lives and they get off with a bit of community service. These guys get a fine for expressing their religious freedom on which this nation was founded upon which will bankrupt them. It is time to lobby our politicians about this issue.
    In the end the gay community has almost turned militant on these issues and they do not respect our rights to express our faith yet we are forced to support their lifestyles!
    There is something fundamentally wrong!

  • MMjohn

    Everyone has certain “rights.” But another’s “rights” end, where my “rights” begin. This is America, and Aaron and Melissa Klein have had their “rights” violated, and that is “wrong.”

    • 211Nickey

      You see: Christians don’t get special rights, They are not exceptions to laws.

      • MMjohn

        @211Nickey
        “Christians” aren’t asking for what you erroneously define as; “special rights.”
        “Christians” here in America are also 100% entitled to be protected under American Law.

        You have it backward, it’s the homosexual sodomites that want “special rights.”

        Bible Believing Christians have, and are having their “rights” severely abused and trampled upon which is not only very, very wrong, but downright evil.

        This is just another case of homosexuals purposely going out of their way to destroy anything and everything that represents Jesus Christ (“Christian Bashing/Christian Harassment”) by manipulation and pro-homosexual “nazism,” towards their “misguided fantasy” goal of a totally godless pro-homosexual world (Sodom and Gomorrah) of perversion which history has shown will not stand:
        24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
        25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. – Genesis 19:24-25

        This “We are going to force our “pro-homosexual agenda stuff” down your throat, or else jazz” is getting old.

        Homosexuals need to start their own businesses/centers or have their “pro-homo shindigs” at home or at friend’s homes and leave “Bible Believing Christians” alone.

        They should also “Thank Almighty God” that their parents weren’t homosexual or they would never had been born, as two men or two women alone cannot “biologically procreate,” and they never will.

        And the courts/judges need to pull their heads out of their proverbial backsides and enforce the “equal rights” under American Law that are (even) due to “American” Bible Believing Christians whether you or anyone else likes it or not.

        • MichelofChrist

          Again, I so agree.

        • 211Nickey

          You calling Homosexuality “nazism” is like saying punching someone is the same as murdering thousands.

    • MichelofChrist

      I so Agree.

  • 12banjo

    Progressives not only hate Christians, they hate everybody. They do love HEROIN in Portland, though! Every three days someone dies from an overdose. Does the Atty Gen of Oregon care?

  • Kimo

    Americans must stand up against homosexual persecution, even if it is being backed and directed from the White House.

    • 211Nickey

      You made me laugh.

  • Kimo

    Fortunately, the electorate in our state is revolting against this, and we are looking at a rout in the elections this fall. Then, we can repeal gay marriage and reinstate the sexual morality laws.

    • BarkingDawg

      Yeah, right.

  • Bubba Gump

    It is a shame when a business stands on its principle gets muscled by the left. You know the tolerant group that wants equality for all no mater what the cause as long as it is against the basic principles of the founding fathers.

  • Richard O. Mann

    Kinda like Nazi Germany. Just keep changing the laws, until there is no one left to oppose you. That is pretty much what is happening in the US today.

    • BarkingDawg

      Well it took a whole, but Godwin’s Law finally made its appearance.

  • BarkingDawg

    This is what Arron Klein, the so called Christian posted on his Facebook page last March

    “F_ _ k the N_ _ gers, Spics, whores, sodimites, fat b_ _ches, ugly c_ _ ts, hypocritical hoes and overweight hippos on our feed. We try so hard to bake cakes and all you ungrateful bullies hate on me and my beautiful family after these articles were written, shame on you! If you don’t like our busineess then don’t stop by! More cake for our fellow Christians!”

    The boy has some anger issues, to be sure.

  • Better AndBetter

    Fundy hypocrisy strikes again! While fundies enjoy special public accommodations protections in the Civil Rights Act, they don’t want others to have them. Such hypocrisy should be fought against everywhere it raises its ugly head.