Obama Claims Constitution ‘Guarantees Same-Sex Marriage in All Fifty States’

ObamaWASHINGTON — Just two years after Barack Obama announced that he had reversed his longstanding opinion that marriage is solely between a man and a woman, the president of the United States is now taking his view even further by stating that he believes that the Constitution requires states to legalize same-sex “marriage.”

“Ultimately, I think the Equal Protection Clause does guarantee same-sex marriage in all fifty states,” he said in an interview published this week by the New Yorker.

Obama was responding to a question about his favorite Supreme Court ruling during his tenure. He advised that rather he thought the court’s recent decision not to hear the appeals from states who sought to defend their marriage amendments was the most telling and showed that the court needed to “catch up” with the changing opinions of society.

“In some ways, the decision that was just handed down to not do anything about what states are doing on same-sex marriage may end up being as consequential—from my perspective, a positive sense—as anything that’s been done,” Obama said. “Because I think it really signals that although the Court was not quite ready—it didn’t have sufficient votes to follow Loving v. Virginia and go ahead and indicate an equal-protection right across the board—it was a consequential and powerful signal of the changes that have taken place in society and that the law is having to catch up.”

Loving v. Virginia was a 1967 Supreme Court ruling surrounding the right of men to marry those of different races.

“But, as you know, courts have always been strategic,” he said. “And, given the direction of society, for the Court to have allowed the process to play out the way it has may make the shift less controversial and more lasting.”

In years past, although Obama had been clear about his determination to further the homosexual agenda, he was hesitant to state that he supported homosexual “marriage.” While running for the U.S. Senate in 2004, Obama said at the time that he believed marriage was solely the union between a man and a woman.

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“What I believe, in my faith, is that a man and a woman, when they get married, are performing something before God, and it’s not simply the two persons who are meeting,” he stated in an interview with WTTW-TV. “I don’t think marriage is a civil right.”

Obama reiterated his beliefs in 2o10, but stated that his views about the matter were “evolving.”

“I have been to this point unwilling to sign on to same-sex marriage primarily because of my understandings of the traditional definitions of marriage,” he said. “But I also think you’re right that attitudes evolve, including mine. And I think that it is an issue that I wrestle with and think about because I have a whole host of friends who are in gay partnerships.”

But as previously reported, in 2012, Obama told ABC’s Robin Roberts, that his friends had changed his opinion about the issue and that he now supported same-sex “marriage.”

“I have to tell you that over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors, when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married,” he said.

During the interview, however, Obama opined that the matter was an issue for the states to decide.

“And what you’re seeing is, I think, states working through this issue … Different communities are arriving at different conclusions, at different times. And I think that’s a healthy process and a healthy debate,” he outlined. “And I continue to believe that this is an issue that is gonna be worked out at the local level, because historically, this has not been a federal issue, what’s recognized as a marriage.”

However, this week’s revelation marks another change in the president’s views—that he now believes the U.S. Constitution requires the states to legalize same-sex “marriage.”


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  • Anton Viljoen

    so O you put your stamp on it …. mmmm Jesus will also put His wrath on you …

  • pastoredsmith

    2016
    cannot get here soon enough. Obama is destroying this nation.

    Communist dictator Nikita Khrushchev said, “You Americans are so gullible. No, you won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of Socialism
    until you will finally wake up and find that you already have communism. We won’t have to fight you, we will so weaken your economy until you fall like overripe fruit into our hands. It has also been said that Khrushchev proclaimed, Communists would bury America without firing a shot, “Your children’s children will be living under communism”.

    Obama would love nothing more than to be the newest dictator on planet earth, ruling over the USA; soon to be the USSA if O has his way.

    • Evolution is a fact

      Uh, ok.

    • Phipps Mike

      Ed, ” small doses of Socialism until you will finally wake up and find that you already have communism”
      Communism eliminates private businesses, Socialism doesn’t. That’s comparing apples and oranges. It changes the entire economic system to go to Communism.

    • James Grimes

      You know as well as I do, the Atheists are only trolling here to tell us how foolish our belief in the God of the Universe is. That’s their hang-up. That’s their problem. Your responses to them are right-on and your doctrine is strong and correct. I’m glad to see that you’re not letting these misanthropes get over on you. We know what they are and they are not very impressive.

    • http://blogvader.tumblr.com/ Blogvader

      Wow, really?

      I somehow doubt you’d enjoy living in any country where a Non-Christian religion asserts its dogma over you by force of law, and you have no business trying to do it here in America.

    • Robby Clewley

      LOL someone is still crying Obama won 🙂

  • Gary

    That is the same thing the federal judges are claiming, who have ruled in favor of ssm. They say the US Cons. requires that ssm be legal. The problem is, the US Cons. does NOT say that. It does not mention marriage, ssm, or homosexuality. But that has not stopped them from claiming the Constitution requires the legality of ssm. When federal judges lie, they cause a loss of respect for themselves and for the judicial system.

  • brine

    If it is a state issue they already decided…states have spoken via vote time and time again ‘No homosexual marriage’…it takes activist judges to override the will of the people. And again…this is not the same issue as people with different skin colors marrying (but I guess like Clinton if you repeat a lie long enough the gullible will believe it). Scripture clearly (OT and NT) decries the wickedness of homosexuality.

    • SFBruce

      When inter-racial marriage laws were overturned in 1967 by the Supreme Court, public opinion against it was far greater than public opinion against same sex marriage is today. And arguments against it were very similar to arguments against same sex marriage: Black people are perfectly free to marry, they just can’t marry someone not of the black race; gay people are perfectly free to marry, they just can’t marry someone of their own sex. There’s disagreement about what the Bible says about homosexuality, and even if all believers agreed on the Bible’s stance, since we have a secular government, the Bible can’t be the only reason for enacting laws and/or public policy.

      • brine

        The bible is exceptionally clear on homosexuality (in the New Testament since biblically illiterate people always try to go after OT verses and act like the NT is silent)…except by people that choose to be willfully ignorant.

        • MattFCharlestonSC

          SFBruce already explained to you that we have a SECULAR government. The Bible has no bearing on our laws or policy.

          • Mary Waterton

            “Secular government” = Government based upon one national religion mandated under penalty of law, namely atheism.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            “If atheism is a religion, then abstinence is a sexual position” — Bill Maher

          • brine

            The founding of our government as well as many state constitutions and declarations had religious slants to them quite often. Orson Wells was a noted historian and, as a professed Christian hater, set out to prove our nation was not founded on Christian principles…after his study of document upon document he stated only a fool would conclude that we weren’t a nation founded on Christian values and principles. We were never intended to be transformed into a nation that rejoiced and embraced wickedness at every level. Many of our founding fathers (while not perfect by any means) stated, in official government documents that the founding of this nation was to help the furtherance of the spreading of the Gospel.

            Turning our nation into a SECULAR nation devoid of influence by our Creator is a relatively modern construct with a purpose that, in the end, will still show God is above all and will judge the wickedness of man that has refused His sacrifice…and He will one day convince people that fight against Him of all their ungodly speeches which they have spoken and ungodly deeds which they have committed.

            While you may rejoice as our country continues to slip into moral depravity Christians are not or should not have been surprised in the least…just like in the days of Lot…this time was predicted…as well as the results.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            How many times have we heard this? How many times has the world ended?

          • brine

            Ask Rome how their blatant homosexuality worked out. There will come a time just like in the days of Noah…when they knew it not until the flood came and took them all away…why? Willful ignorance. There will come a time when the whole world is judged…and there are times where nations are judged. Sometimes with physical destruction…sometimes with collapse as God leaves nations to their own devices. All kinds of wickedness has happened in the time of man without God destroying a whole world….but God’s long-suffering is not an eternal state.

          • Evolution is a fact

            “Rome fell because of all the homos.”
            – Edward Gibbon

          • brine

            Rome rotted from within and homosexuality was a part of that.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            Rome fell because of over reliance on slave labor and invading Germanic hordes. Oh — and let’s not forget another contributing factor to Romes decline was the rise of Christianity, so I could make the point that Christianity, not homosexuality, is what brought Rome down.

          • Kevin Heffernan

            Sorry Matt I didn’t see your post before I wrote mine.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            Certainly doesn’t bother me Kevin. It actually doesn’t matter how many times we say it in this particular forum — nobody will acknowledge it.

          • Kevin Heffernan

            I believe it was the corrosive and barbaric effects of Christianity’s widespread adoption and the eventual conversion of the emperor Constantine which led to the fall of Rome.

          • Jose

            It’s funny how everything plays out just like the bible says… 2 Peter 3-7 “3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.”

          • Jose

            It’s funny how everything plays out just like the bible says… 2 Peter 3-7 “3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.”

          • Phipps Mike

            brine, “only a fool would conclude that we weren’t a nation founded on Christian values and principles.”

            actually that is a statement twisting or exaggerating the subject. Religion just happens to have an overlap of the same values as non religious values (do not kill, rape…etc…). So no, the nation wasn’t meant to be there for religious purposes. Its there for quality of life. Establishment clause makes it clear that no one religion is to be honored over another in this country.

          • The Last Trump

            And then they went and made Easter and Christmas national holidays where government, public and private sectors shut down completely. As well as the swearing in of presidents, government officials, judges, witnesses testifying in court, etc, on the Holy Bible. Children grew up reciting the Lord’s Prayer every morning in your public schools and the Ten Commandments were displayed at government institutions. But no, America was not a Christian nation! Give me a break! Enough fantasy folks. Like it, don’t like it, but for the love of God stop bull******* about it! Getting pretty tiresome.

          • Phipps Mike

            Govt INVENTS holidays for an excuse to have more days off.

            ” But no, America was not a Christian nation!”

            explain why there is “freedom of religion” then. Nuff said.

          • The Last Trump

            Way to avoid touching on any of the many clear examples I’ve listed above. You’re a funny guy, Mike! 😉 I understand that you are sympathetic to the gay agenda. But you simply can’t change history. And if all of the history books ever written about U.S. history can’t change your mind, I certainly won’t waste my time on it. The rest of the folks on this site know better. As to why there is freedom of religion, that is also very well known (again, check out any of those history books mentioned above). Some very good, anti-gay, Christian men you know as “the Founding Fathers,” who prayed to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob regularly, by the way (look it up), set America up as a nation where you could be free to believe as you like, without even forcing their own personal faith of Christianity upon anyone against their will. What a bunch of great guys, eh Mike? Great CHRISTIAN guys! And, they made absolutely certain that one’s religious freedom, including protecting against anything prohibiting the free exercise thereof, was protected as well. (that’s that little thing called the First Amendment. Great stuff Mike!) So, to recap, government can’t force a particular religion on the population. Nor can they prohibit the free exercise thereof. Pretty clear. Except, today, we regularly encounter cases where the free exercise thereof is clearly being prohibited. Thanks to laws that change daily and the many new definitions of marriage. If you’re still stuck on the “Christian nation” part, just try to remember that Christians founded the nation and formed its laws and structure on Judeo-Christian values. Not my opinion, Mike. Fact. History. (see above post – swearing in government officials Holy Bible, Lord’s Prayer in public schools, Ten Commandments posted at government buildings, yada, yada, yada). Not really that important to argue this point today. America is no longer a Christian nation, hence the embarrassing disaster it has become on every level. And Christianity does not endorse or support the gay lifestyle no matter how badly anybody would like it to, and THAT is why Christians are regularly targeted by supporters of the LGBT agenda. And gays simply can not tear themselves away from Christian websites! Nuff said?

          • Phipps Mike

            ” we regularly encounter cases where the free exercise thereof is clearly being prohibited.”

            ok, this is the part most everybody in here doesn’t see yet its SO OBVIOUS. When you discriminate, even if its in the Bible that its allowed and even with the freedom to practice, it becomes illegal. The discrimination part of Christianity is thereby rendered null and void because it is breaking discrimination laws. The law trumps the religion because we are not JUST a Christian nation.

          • The Last Trump

            Yes, the laws have changed. And that puts Christians in a very uncomfortable place. Wish folks could appreciate that. Christians of course don’t want to “judge” anyone and are told not to. But we have to stay true to the Word of God too. Our culture can claim that it is filled with errors and misunderstandings but the fact of the matter is, if God couldn’t keep His message to humanity pure, and free from mistakes, than He’s not much of a God, is He? I don’t get to pick and choose the parts I like and discard the ones I don’t because there “might” be errors. And after 20 years of searching, I have yet to find a single one. Now I don’t believe that homosexuals are bad people. I believe they truly feel the way they feel and do not “choose” the lifestyle. And so, of course, they are going to have some issues with the Bible. And if the Bible is truly the Word of God, then how are they supposed to deal with that! Also a very uncomfortable place. And I do feel for them. If God’s against homosexuals and God made “me” a homosexual then how in the hell am I supposed to cope with that! Not an enviable position. So what’s the answer? I have no idea. I absolutely “know” and believe that the Bible is absolutely trustworthy and accurate. And I know that most homosexuals believe that they are born that way. Could they be wrong? Might our culture have had some influence on their sexuality from a very young age for it to feel that way? Don’t know. But here’s a very interesting passage from Romans 1:24, “Wherefore God also GAVE THEM UP to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God GAVE THEM UP unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.” Does this passage actually indicate that homosexuality is, in fact, a judgment from God, who “gave them up” to these “vile affections” due to our rebellion? Again, I don’t know what to tell you. But I would be very careful about picking and choosing what to obey where the Bible is concerned. Just my opinion. Everything is playing out exactly how the Bible told us it would, right up to the fact that Christians, who were once quite comfortable in America, would be persecuted and killed just before the return of our Lord. I can’t even visit a Christian website now without feeling the tightening of the noose just by viewing all the hate that is directed towards me and my brothers and sisters in Christ in the comments sections, simply for trying to stay true to the Word of God and by honouring Him by our behaviour. I have to tell you though, It’s beginning to feel frighteningly similar to 1930’s Germany to me, as Christians are more and more positioned into a very uncomfortable corner in our society, much like the situation for the Jews at that time, prior to the “Final Solution”. So please excuse us if we seem a little bothered by recent events. There’s a lot of folks who would like to see us “disappear” one way or another.

          • Elijah N DeAnna Moon

            Man, you were spot on for about 50 paragraphs. Then all of a sudden you’re completely lost… God told them not to but then made them that way? You need to repent. I believe your dealing with homosexual issues. Probably a result of watching porn. Turn the porn off. Draw close to God. And quit posting your mixed truth. It’s more dangerous than the flat out lies.

          • The Last Trump

            Ha! That’s too funny! I was only speaking figuratively. I have lots of issues but homosexuality sure isn’t one of them! (Women are just too darn cute! 😉 I don’t know why some of these folks appear to be “born” that way and neither does anyone else. But there do seem to be some people, men in particular, that even as children act very effeminate and seem to have no attraction to the opposite sex. Many even try very hard to live a heterosexual lifestyle and just can’t seem to do it. Can’t explain it. No one really can. It’s not that they are making a choice to disobey God and stick it to Him. They truly seem to be attracted to the same gender. Where is this attraction coming from? It’s a mystery. Others are simply sex fiends and sleep with members of either sex, or both, even at the same time. That’s clearly a choice to be a WHORE although we no longer dare call it that anymore. “Sexual liberty!” Now doesn’t that sound nice? It’s all about the spin. Point is, the issue might be a little bit more complicated than simple choice. Demonic influence, possibly permitted by God (“gave them up to”?). Judgment of God? Influenced as children somehow by others? Don’t know. But each are possible theories that I have come across. Absolutely not condoned by God and anyone under its influence must reject it and strive to live their lives in accordance to pleasing God. Gay or straight, we can all control whether we choose to have sex or not. And sex has nothing to do with love. No mixed truths here. Only questions. I have always struggled with the fact that some of these folks seem genuinely distraught about their situation and struggle with it their entire lives. Not just a simple matter of choice for some. Very puzzling. And yes, I would have a very hard time believing that God “made them that way”. Unless it was the result of some form of judgment. But even then, it would hardly seem fair. Whatever its source, our job as Christians is to resist its influence on our society and expose it for the unnatural abomination that it truly is. Basic anatomy 101. And thanks for the advice about porn! 😉

          • Elijah N DeAnna Moon

            And God gave them up. Means they CHOSE it. So God let them have what they chose. And the results of that choice. Death. The wages of sin.

          • Phipps Mike

            you’re doing ok from where I am sitting, You obviously don’t hate homosexuals like a lot of Christians do.

          • myj58

            Most of the founding fathers were Freemason, not Christian… Do a little research… You should notice Christian was never written in to the Constitution… Freedom of Religion and worship can be anything… Once you realize this, you will pray for the country different… We have been lied to for so many years…

          • The Last Trump

            I’ve done plenty thanks. And yes, already addressed this further down. By the way, the Freemasons also included Christians. But America was never “officially” branded a Christian nation. And yet, government and public processes run according to the Bible, and no other religious text whatsoever. Don’t know how many other different ways I can say it. When your government officials, including the top leader himself, and the judges that form the nations laws swear oaths to the Christian God with their hands on the Holy Bible, representing the HIGHEST LAWS of the land, clearly superseding their own, THAT is pretty self explanatory. Would you not agree? I never recited a Buddhist prayer in my life, never mind in PUBLIC school! Did you? Don’t even know what they celebrate for holidays either. Them, or any other religion on the planet. But my COUNTRY made darn sure I said the Lord’s Prayer, and celebrated Christmas and Easter, whether I wanted to or not. And I’m so thankful it did or I may never had repented for my own rebellion against God had I never been exposed to His nature from childhood. But yes, never a totalitarian Christianity forced upon all. And so, generations were able to grow up with the freedom to choose as they see fit and this one sure has! That generally doesn’t happen in a totalitarian theocracy does it! But Christian we were in every other sense of the word, once upon a very wonderful time that only exists now in fond memories of days gone by…

          • Rexford L

            I think you need to do just a SLIGHT bit of research before you go spouting off your drivel, in 5 minutes I was able to find online that both Washington and Jefferson, both definitely founding fathers were both Christian believing men, while they might not have liked certain Christian religions (that’s true today, such as Catholics hating Mormons etc) they WERE Christians.

          • Rexford L

            freedom of religion, or specifically the 1st amendment to the constitution, basically says there won’t be an official US religion, such as what the UK has in the Church of England.. but then it also says you are free to practice any religion you want..

          • Kevin Heffernan

            Yes, the country strayed perilously far from its secular origins well into the mid-twentieth century, even altering the Pledge of Allegiance and the words on money to make sure we were different from the Soviet allies who defeated Hitler and enabled our brave service members to launch a successful clean-up operation in Europe against the German forces which remained there.

          • Rexford L

            Ummm, you can look at Islam and SEE that not ALL religions are peaceful and love your neighbor.. it’s the Judeo/Christian religions that are what the laws of the UK and US are based on, NOT “all religions”..

          • Kevin Heffernan

            Really? Orson Well(e)s, the War of the Worlds guy? Man, that guy had more irons in the fire than I knew.

            I believe geologists and anthropologists have argued convincingly that the fire in the cities on the plain which later fictionalized in the story of Lot was the result of a massive underground gas explosion caused and accelerated by the network of salt mine tunnels which honeycombed the ground underneath the city and had little if anything to do with how the citizens above aligned their genitals with those of their friends and neighbors.

        • Tyler Fontaine

          The bible is also very clear on not eating shellfish, wearing blended fabrics, having rounded haircuts, and using pork products. If you’ve ever even touched a football, you’re doing something the bible bans… but I’m sure you’re okay with that, right?

          • john

            The law was for the Jews. Eating pork , shellfish , and animals that didn’t have a split hoof just to name a few was for purifying the Jewish people. The gentiles were not under these rules. But sexual sin is another story it pertains to everyone. Adultery lust , homosexuality all are sins. The law was used as a ruler to show sinful man he doesn’t measure up to Gods standards and that man needs salvation. Anyone who rejects the truth does so willingly. We are under grace now but there is a time limit.

          • MC

            You really need to know the difference between the cerimonial law and God’s unchanging Moral Law. Not to mention, Jesus declared all foods clean. Smh…

          • Tyler Fontaine

            “Cermonial law” vs. “God’s unchanging Law”….. OF COURSE, how convenient for you! Semantics, you just gotta love it, right? If it weren’t for semantics and loopholes, you Christians would have a lot of explaining to do at your “judgment day”. Pfft.

          • MC

            First, the ceremonial law was only for the ancient Israelites, not the gentiles, and Jesus’ work on the Cross put an end to the ceremonial law. Unless of course you want to go back to sacrificing animals for the redemption of sins? You would know all this if you actually read the Bible instead of being obtuse and embarrassing yourself. Smh…

        • Kevin Heffernan

          It doesn’t matter what Bronze Age religious texts have to say on this or any other social issue.

      • Mary Waterton

        Homosexuality is not a newly discovered race. It’s a behavior.

        • MattFCharlestonSC

          I can’t control who I love, can you?

          • Gary

            Can you control your behavior? If you cannot, then you will probably wind up in jail.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            My behavior is not illegal and you certainly don’t get to decide what i should or should not control.

          • Gary

            Don’t expect to act like a pervert and then be applauded for it.

          • myj58

            So you are out of control? You should say ” we can’t control who you chose to love. That just like saying Mama June, can’t control who she love and let a man who molested her child back into her house , around her other underage children… Yes, she has control, you has control too… We even have control who attractive to us.

          • Simon Hankins

            Yes. Are you saying your ruled by your emotions? That is weak and saying because I am angry I should wipe a person off the face of the earth. Get a backbone.

          • The Last Trump

            I can absolutely control who I have sex with. Can you?

          • James Grimes

            Normal people can control their behavior. Why can’t you?

          • Elijah N DeAnna Moon

            Are you a 50 year old man in love with a 10 year old little boy? By your logic pedophilia should be acceptable. Can’t help who you love… Love is pure and perfect. Love isn’t love when it’s perverted and you start “sticking things” where they don’t belong. That’s the truth. But you’ll “reason” your way out of it.

          • myj58

            Yes you can,…. I have seen people fall in love and out as fast and as much as the change their underwear… We can control who we fall in love with…

        • SFBruce

          It an be used to describe some sexual behaviros, but it’s also an orientation, and sometimes, an identity, as are heterosexuality and bisexuality.

          • Mary Waterton

            The same could be said of pedophilia. I can hear the ACLU lawyers arguing their case before the SCOTUS now:

            “Your honor, my client has an orientation toward little children. It’s not his fault. He was born that way. To incarcerate him is a violation of his Constitutional rights.”

            And with a wave of the hand and a sprinkling of lawyer fairy dust, the 5 wild cards on the SCOTUS magically lower the age of consent from 18 to 0.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            Pedophilia is illegal. Same sex relationships are not. These are the same arguments over and over, and they have already lost in more debates than I can count, as well as in the courts — no lawyer fairy dust required, only logical arguments.

          • MC

            And at one time same sex relationships were illegal.

          • Phipps Mike

            sure, before they found out that it victimizes NO ONE.

          • MC

            It victimizes religious bakers, photographers, florists, etc.

          • Phipps Mike

            ok, but the kazillion OTHER same sex relationships that dont ask for those things have no victims. At least you aren’t a hater like most of the other naysayers in here…like PastorEd the homophobic gay hating pastor.

          • MC

            But don’t you agree that a few victims is a few too many?

          • Phipps Mike

            one wrongful death on capital punishment is too many as well but I do think the death penalty should apply in certain cases.

          • Opus35

            You do understand that in this country if I say to you when you come in to my business ( and I do have my own business) I don’t serve anyone by the name of MC. You would have the right to take legal action against me. On the basis of discrimination. That the way this country set things up. I personally don’t think suing someone over services is worth it. But a lot of people do. When this happens to a small business, it usually a good idea to file for bankruptcy. This way the individuals who are taking up the lawsuit have nothing to take from your business. In time many will reopen under a different name different location.

          • The Last Trump

            You do understand that in your country these bakers and pastors did just fine for generations up until just very recently right? So what changed? Please don’t try to sell me that line of crap about how morally superior liberals have now become! Take a good look around. Every former sin and vice is now legal. Your country is in its death throes and has become a moral cesspool unrecognizable from its former self. America, sadly, is finished. And this is just another reminder why.

          • Opus35

            Did you read my whole post? Did I say that it was a good idea to sue these businesses? No I did not. But they are not the first business to be sued, and they won’t be the last. Laws are put in placed to protect the consumer. As a business owner, I can tell you the law is set up to take care of the consumer. As it should be. It is the saying of all good businesses, “the customer is always right.”

            Does everyone on the site have an anger issue. More then half of what you said in your post, is not even mentioned in my post.
            Talk to me when you would like to address my comment.

          • The Last Trump

            ?? What anger? Read into things much? And my entire post addressed your post about businesses being sued. However we’re not just talking about businesses are we. Particular flavor of businesses representing Christianity. Not sure how you missed that. Maybe have another read of it without projecting whatever is making you so angry. 😉 Or perhaps you disagree that lawsuits are suddenly springing up around every corner to further, sorry, “protect” the rights of the LGBT agenda. Christian bakers and pastors had no “business” problems until very recently. Immoral laws continue to be passed every day. And real Christians will choose to honour God whatever the cost, rather than flip flop on their convictions to satisfy the ever changing insanity of “political correctness”. Not their fault our immoral and shameless society has legalized drugs, prostitution, abortion, assisted suicide and gay marriage now is it? No need to respond. I already know the answer.

          • Opus35

            You come in as rude and condescending we’re done.

          • The Last Trump

            Wow. Talk about the pot calling the kettle! Calm down. The only one insulting anybody seems to be you. “Does everyone on the site have an anger issue. Talk to me when you would like to address my comment…What is it with you people, can’t you make a comment without trying to insult who you’re debating with.” If this is how you debate then I can see why you seem to be having so much difficulty. No anger from where I’ve been sitting. And if you don’t like to be insulted try to refrain from inviting insults as simple responses for your attacks. And businesses can sell to whoever they wish, by the way. They can discriminate on dress code, clientele, VIP status and anything else they choose to target as THEIR customer base. Until the modern witch hunt, that is, that makes examples out of those who don’t support and endorse homosexuality. Even pastors in Christian churches are only NOW being threatened with fines, jail time and closure if they don’t officiate for gay marriage. How about, for starters, if your lifestyle doesn’t reflect clear Christian values, you stay the hell out of Christian churches. The government is more than ready and willing to marry these folks without any lawsuits necessary in their wedding planning. Has absolutely nothing to do with running a business. It has everything to do with TARGETING Christians and silencing anybody who believes and supports the noble concept of the traditional family. Thanks for the “debate”. Feel free now to run off and attack the rest of the crowd here that doesn’t support your particular opinion.

          • Opus35

            I was calm, but thanks for asking. I should know better the to respond first thing in the morning. Coffee! :7) LoL
            You know I read a bit of the comment, and then I respond.
            After reading your long comment about nothing that has to do with this topic we were talking about. This is what I have to say in response to what you said.
            Have you ever heard of discrimination laws? Whether you want to believe it or not this is discrimination. Would you feel the same way if they refuse to serve Black people? It’s not any difference. Discrimination laws are put into practice to stop situations like this, they obviously didn’t know there was such a thing as a discrimination law.
            Maybe if they came in with no shirts no shoes no service , or physically threatened the store owners, they would have something to talk about.
            The whole civil rights act was about Blacks being treated as second-class citizens, it was about discrimination.
            Sorry you don’t think it far, as I said I would not bother with these types of lawsuits. My attitude would be okay fine I’ll find somebody else. But it is discrimination, The whole basis of the civil rights movement,was on discriminating practices. and it is against the law.
            The couples who felt that they were wrong, made a decision. they chose to sue these businesses.
            Whether you like it or not, it’s there right to do so. I think suing for this purpose is wrong it’s a just a waste of time. Not my decision to make not your decision to make it was a couple who decided to do it. It’s they are right. We will have to see what happens in court.
            I know that the bakery went out of business I don’t know if they did that to avoid a lawsuit.

          • Phipps Mike

            “They can discriminate on dress code, clientele, VIP status and anything else they choose to target as THEIR customer base. Until the modern witch hunt,”
            geesh, you sure do like to be in denial about facts. The discrimination law has been around for YEARRRRSSSSS.

          • The Last Trump

            And yet the lawsuits against Christians are only happening now. Hmmm, that’s strange. The discrimination laws have been around for yearrrrsssssssss. Wonder what’s going on….

          • Phipps Mike

            Using Religion to Discriminate Against LGBT people

            In services

            In many states, businesses are barred by law from discriminating against customers based on their sexual orientation, as well as based on race, religion, or other legally protected categories. Increasingly, we see business owners claiming that they do not have to follow these laws but can instead refuse to provide services – including lodging, wedding dresses, and photography services – because the owners object to same-sex relationships. In addition, we see social service organizations that receive government funding deny services to same-sex couples. Everyone is entitled to their own religious beliefs, but when you operate a business or run a publicly funded social service agency open to the public, those beliefs do not give you a right to discriminate.

            Craig and Mullins v. Masterpiece Cakeshop

            Ingersoll v. Alrene’s Flowers

            Will We Sanction Discrimination?: Can ‘Heterosexuals Only’ Be Among the Signs of Today? (UCLA Law Review Essay)

            Elane Photography, LLC v. Vanessa Willock

            Baker and Linsley v. Wildflower Inn

            Wathen v. Beall Mansion Bed and Breakfast

            Catholic Charities v. DCFS

            Recent Blogs: Masterpiece Cakeshop

            https://www.aclu.org/using-religion-discriminate

            Federal Law and Private Businesses

            Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 — the federal law which prohibits discrimination by private businesses which are places of public accommodation — only prevents businesses from refusing service based on race, color, religion, or national origin. Federal law does not prevent businesses from refusing service to customers based on sexual orientation.

            This is true both for customers and employees of private businesses, although forces in Congress have been attempting to pass laws which protect gay and lesbian employeesfor decades.

            So if there are no state or local laws to the contrary, private business owners may legally choose to refuse service to customers based on their sexual orientation — and some have publicly done so.

            State, Local Anti-Discrimination Laws

            However in some states like California and New York, discrimination based on sexual orientation by private businesses is prohibited by state law. In many of these states, bona fide religious organizations and religious non-profits have been exempted from these laws when they conflict with their religious beliefs; private businesses are not exempt.

            Even in states which do not prohibit refusing service to gays — like Texas or Arizona — local laws or ordinances in specific cities may prevent LGBT discrimination. This may be part of the reason for Arizona’s controversial SB 1062, a bill which would reinforce the ability of private business owners to refuse to serve gays and lesbians based on religious beliefs.

            Regardless of whether SB 1062 passes in Arizona, private business owners can still legally refuse to serve gays and lesbians under state law, barring a local law that may say otherwise.

            http://blogs.findlaw.com/free_enterprise/2014/02/can-your-business-legally-refuse-to-serve-gays.html

            so it depends WHERE you are at and what case law you reference when filing the suit.

          • The Last Trump

            I hear you. Nobody should have to suffer discrimination. Problem with homosexuality occurs when Christians are forced to go against their conscience and their convictions in SUPPORT or PROMOTION of the lifestyle. If I’m a restaurant owner and a gay customer enters my establishment, of course I should serve him. Why not? It’s just an issue of another human being requesting food. Or clothing, or any other of a million different products and services. But, if the issue now becomes about baking products for a gay wedding or officiating at the wedding ceremony, is it really so hard to understand that Christians would be hesitant before Almighty God to partake in any kind of behaviour that appears to promote and support gay union? I think you can appreciate that, no? But our society has discarded “God”, particularly the Christian one, in favour of everything and anything else BUT Him, so these Christians just look like hateful bigots clinging to an ancient, irrelevant religion, and standing in the way of “progress”. The future’s not looking too bright for Christians these days. And as laws that oppose the clear teachings of the Bible continue to pass and people are forced to disobey them or disobey God, there’s going to be an awful lot of us going to jail, paying outlandish fines, or worse. All over the world Christianity is under attack and being stamped out of existence. Churches are destroyed, crosses and monuments are torn down, Bibles are banned and Christians killed or imprisoned. War has been declared on Jesus Christ world-wide. It’s absolutely surreal to have witnessed this transformation in the western world, once so richly blessed by the God we honoured. Like something out of a movie! And yet, absolutely predicted with unmistakeable clarity as the final generation that would see the return of Christ. Remember “they kingdom come”? When He comes it’s not to a warm reception and a welcoming committee. The world is hostile to God and to each other, and so He comes to BATTLE, not joyous reunion. Does that sound about right for what we see playing out before us? I guess we’ll see. Jesus alluded to our situation when He asked, “when the Son of Man cometh, will He find faith upon the Earth?” The answer He seems to be hinting at, sadly, seems to be “no”.

          • Phipps Mike

            Ya know Trump, you are by far the most INTERESTING person I have talked to within CNN. Even where we disagree on some things, we agree on many others and you are CIVIL. That’s very admirable and shows an OPEN mind that would rather exchange ideas than shoot derogatory terms at each other. Now if everybody else in here could do that. more would be accomplished. I consider you a very good Christian and one of a dying breed.
            I at one time thought that James Grimes would be like you but to no avail. He seems to hate homosexuality more out of bigotry than he does for religious reasons.
            Besides the fact that he is such a fundamentalist that he still believes that whales are “monsters” because the Bible refers to them that way.
            Anyway, I enjoy our conversation. The only thing I disagree with is that cooking a cake for a Gay is any different from serving them a burger. It is not PROMOTING by just cooking for a gay.

          • The Last Trump

            Appreciate the kind words. Yes, these comment boards tend to bring out the worst in people, myself included. The stories themselves generally are enough to get Christians angry from the very start and then some of the comments just push us over the edge! And of course it works both ways. Bound to happen when you have folks who feel passionately about a divisive issue. I’m guilty of hitting the send button myself before considering the negative impact of some of my off the cuff sarcasm that stems from my frustration. Thankfully, my Christian conscience (Holy Spirit?) convicts me when I stray and tends to reign me back in again to keep me civil. Unfortunately, I’m often too quick with my comments to give my conscience time to guard my tongue! I’m sure it’s the same with most commenters. Anger and frustration sometimes get the better of us and we later regret the hurtful things we may have said. We all just need to remember that these are important issues that people feel very passionately about and cut each other a little slack for things said out of frustration. Easier said than done, I know! I’m working on it…;) See you in the comments, buddy!

          • Bill Tree

            I consider you a cry baby who can’t handle the truth.

          • Opus35

            I love you too. Peace!

          • Phipps Mike

            ” Immoral laws continue to be passed every day.”
            thought you said this is a Christian nation. If it were, Christianity would be the law…checkmate.

          • The Last Trump

            Checkmate! Mike, you’re killin’ me! Too funny! WAS a Christian nation, Mike. WAS. Not anymore. 🙁

          • Phipps Mike

            it never was a Christian nation, ever. The whole premise behind freedom of religion was to ESCAPE a religion made law (the King of England monarchy). America was FOUNDED on the principle that we all had our freedom to believe whatever we want to believe and that no law can persecute us for doing so.
            That’s TRUE freedom. The establishment clause further illustrates that we were NEVER a Christian nation. If you want to be correct, say it correctly. “The MAJORITY of Americans are Christian.”
            Just because its a majority, it does not make it a Christian nation. A Christian nation would be DEFINED as one that’s laws are adhered 100% to Christianity.

          • The Last Trump

            Says you buddy! I never asked to say the Lord’s Prayer in public school. It was mandated for everybody in the schools, Christian or not. And although you could choose to opt out, everybody who didn’t said a Christian prayer, religious or not. Fight all you want, Mike. I’m not going to argue with you about the clearest of facts. You believe what you want. The rest of us know better. But again, who gives a crap now? What difference does it make to your current lifestyle choices? America is a cesspool today. So stop worrying so much about the clear facts of recorded history. Get over it man. You simply can not change the past. Too many people know the truth.

          • Phipps Mike

            what part of Christianity is not the law, don’t you understand?…once again FREEDOM OF RELIGION. That means I can be a Buddhist and no law can do ANYTHING to me, If we were a Christian RULERSHIP, which is what Christian “Nation” MEANS, then I would be arrested for not adhering to Christianity. THAT IS A FACT

          • The Last Trump

            Yes, already addressed. Not “officially” Christian. And yet, government and public processes run according to the Bible, and no other religious text whatsoever. Don’t know how many other different ways I can say it. When your government officials, including the top leader himself, and the judges that form the nations laws swear oaths to the Christian God with their hands on the Holy Bible, representing the HIGHEST LAWS of the land, clearly superseding their own, THAT is pretty self explanatory. Would you not agree? I never recited a Buddhist prayer in my life, never mind in PUBLIC school! Did you? Don’t even know what they celebrate for holidays either. Them, or any other religion on the planet. But my COUNTRY made damn sure I said the Lord’s Prayer, and celebrated Christmas and Easter, whether I wanted to or not. And I’m so thankful it did or I may never had repented for my own rebellion against God had I never been exposed to His nature from childhood. But yes, never a totalitarian Christianity forced upon all. And so, generations were able to grow up with the freedom to choose as they see fit and this one sure has! That generally doesn’t happen in a totalitarian theocracy does it! But Christian we were in every other sense of the word, once upon a very wonderful time that only exists now in fond memories of days gone by…

          • Phipps Mike

            “Yes, already addressed. Not “officially” Christian. And yet, government and public processes run according to the Bible, and no other religious text whatsoever”

            agreed, but if Buddhism was the majority, things would have some Buddhists things ingrained into our culture as well. I see that your definition of “Christian Nation” doesn’t require the “officially” to be so. Good enough, I now understand what you mean now that you articulated it.

            There will come a time when the SCOTUS will have to address “free exercise thereof” vs discrimination as a result. Its a circus in the judicial dept until that happens.

          • Phipps Mike

            “Every former sin and vice is now legal. ”
            rape is legal? theft is legal? nuff said.

          • The Last Trump

            Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike. C’mon! Really? Again, pretty sure the rest of the folks here understood just fine. But I guess I’ll have to spell it out for you, buddy! Drugs. Legal. Prostitution. Legal. Abortion. (aka “Infanticide”) Legal. Gay Marriage. Legal. And what a disaster traditional family has become in America. Fornication is encouraged and celebrated, and virginity is mocked. Multiple sex partners is the norm with either or both genders, sometimes at the same time. Sodom and Gomorrah would blush if they could see the shame that has become of America. American youth are smoking, drugging, drinking and fornicating at record levels. Hell, they are even encouraged to “pick” their gender from a very young age. What madness! Enjoy your America, Mike. You can have it. (but not for long…;)

          • Phipps Mike

            Drugs are NOT legal and in fact our prison system is in trouble from the overcrowding due to mandatory minimum sentences imposed on drug charges. The 1st offense of manufacturing meth with intent to distribute is an automatic life sentence.
            Even at the State level, many sentences for drug offenses have a 3 year mandatory minimum allowing for in-prison rehab programs.

            Prostitution is not legal, not even in Las Vegas. Time to check the States codes again, eh?

            Abortion has never been illegal. In the days of old, many aborted if they believed the baby would come out deformed and even killed babies AFTER they were born if they were deformed. They considered it an abomination to have the baby suffer through life with those deformities.

            As far as traditional family goes. The whole idea was a joke.
            No men cooked or did dishes, women weren’t allowed to mow the yard or shovel the walk. Women weren’t allowed to work. Women were EXPECTED to have supper on the table, bring the husbands their slippers, and the newspaper after he was home from work. Women later when allowed to work, were not allowed to make more than their husbands. Tradition is stupid and null and void in a SMARTER world where it is necessary for people to switch roles to make things more efficient. My wife’s earning power is $15 an hour and mine is $10 an hour. I REFUSE to have her quit her job because she makes more than I do.

            I do agree that with “decadence”, sexuality is being flaunted and encouraged too much, especially through the media.
            I hardly think that would make Sodom’s inhabitants blush. Remember that in that day, they didn’t have much but food, sex, and music. So what do you think they were the most creative at?….yea, we wouldn’t even compare.

            I also agree what you said about the youth smoking…etc…but I disagree that they are encouraged to pick their gender. I am 51 years old and have NEVER seen ONE case of that happening. It comes naturally to the child what gender they feel like.

            While there is some madness going on, I do hope with the intelligence you have displayed although I don’t agree with much of your analysis, that the world is NOT “going to end” soon. That’s a “doomsayer” religious quackery.
            TRUE Christians know that there is NOTHING said in the Bible about “when” the world will end. In fact it says “no man will know”.

          • The Last Trump

            If that were even remotely true Mike, then I guess Jesus wouldn’t have bothered to repeatedly command us to “watch!” now would he? And then go on to list dozens of signs to actually watch for. I believe in “Mike-speak” this would warrant one of your “checkmates!” 😉

          • Phipps Mike

            No completely satisfactory resolution of these differences in the Bible has ever been found, and the timing of the Second Coming has been a subject of hot debate within Christianity from the beginning. Jesus, Himself, said no one would be able to predict exactly when He would return:

            “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come.” (NIV, Mark 13:32-33)

            http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_SecondComing.htm

          • The Last Trump

            Soooooo…….what are we supposed to be WATCHING for, exactly? Not the DAY or the HOUR, as that’s pretty precise, but the general time will be known you think? “But ye, brethren are not in darkness, that that day should overtake YOU as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us WATCH and be sober.” 1 Thess 5:4. Hmmm…..Let’s ask Jesus: “So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, EVEN AT THE DOORS.” Mathew 24:33. At the doors!? Wow. That’s not really what Mike’s telling me, now is it. Think I’ll go with Jesus.

          • myj58

            I would serve everybody, gay and non-gay, as long as they pay… I have no problem serving people… The best way to share the Gospel of Christ is by our action, in the way we treat people, especially those who don’t know Christ…We need to show and introduce the lost, the LOVE of Christ and not our fist.

          • Damon Eden Greville

            Matt, what you don’t seem to understand is that there is a world of difference between “legal” and “moral”. Do government and rulers pass immoral laws? History is littered with them. Homosexuality is two things: a choice, and a deception.

          • Evolution is a fact

            Rubbish.

          • SFBruce

            Neither social scientists nor any law I’m aware of define pedophilia as a sexual orientation. Whether pedophiles choose to be pedophiles or not doesn’t change the fact that children should be protected from sexual abuse.

          • Wootsauce

            Homosexuality used to be in the same category as pedophilia is now…

            Besides all one would have to do is change the definition of “children” and BOOM! No more damage down to them. It’s the same thing that’s happened to marriage…

          • Phipps Mike

            apples and oranges, Mary. One is legal, one is not. Why? one has victims, the other does not. No victims means that person is none of your business.

          • The Last Trump

            Already beginning. Pedophilia and incest laws pushing for more acceptance. Hey, if gays were born that way, these folks claim the same rights too. Welcome to, “as in the days of Noah”. Our poor children! What a generation of depravity we’ve become.

          • Wootsauce

            I like your posts in this thread! Way to tell the truth… Out of curiosity, which country do you live in?

          • The Last Trump

            Canada. And we share the same culture as our American friends in the south. Regrettably, I fear we will share the same future of judgment as well.

          • Robert Cammarata

            Wow, Mary, what a brilliantly clever satire that was! You are hysterically funny!

            No, wait, you are just hysterical. And equating homosexuality with pedophilia just shows what a sadly ignorant person that you are.

      • James Grimes

        “There’s disagreement about what the Bible says about homosexuality…” Absolutely not! The Bible is very clear that homosexuality is an abomination in the face of God and that it is a sin that will merit eternal damnation.
        Those who don’t understand what they Bible says will always misuse it when trying to use it as a weapon.

        • SFBruce

          The Bible is also very clear that eating shellfish is an abomination, as well, but very few Christians, if any, believe that applies to Christians today. I don’t know why you think I’m using the Bible as a weapon. It happens to be true that there are those who believe the Bible doesn’t condemn gay people.

        • Phipps Mike

          “it is a sin that will merit eternal damnation.”
          time for you to get a new Bible, Yours is broke. The KJ version says that ALL sins are forgiven.

        • James Grimes

          Just what we need… another Bible “expert” who doesn’t know the Bible. Anyone can copy and paste, but it takes time and dedication to know what Scripture actually tells us.
          Please, spare me the drama. I’m not interested.

          • Phipps Mike

            ” know what Scripture actually tells us.” Its simple, I’m right and you are wrong. The scripture I posted is NOT lost in context, Read it and weep…ALL sins are forgiven.

          • James Grimes

            Believers, Don’t be conned by a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Anyone can copy and paste and claim that their interpretation is correct. What we don’t need on this site is pseudo – Christians with an agenda. Study the Word and know for sure what is the correct interpretation. There are too many loose canons on this site who need to be avoided.

      • Kevin Heffernan

        Sorry Bruce, I missed your comment before posting my own.

        • SFBruce

          No worries. It’s an important point, and bears repeating.

      • Mrsbacktoyou

        Cultures/Nations/Kingdoms have come and gone, but God and His Word remains “yesterday/today/forever”. We have a republic formed by Judea-Christian biblical principles, once that goes, so goes the Nation and society.

  • Gary

    The same philosophy that finds the US Cons. prohibits heterosexual-only marriage will also find that all of the requirements for legal marriage are unconstitutional.

  • bowie1

    I doubt that the founders had gay marriage in mind when they wrote up the US Constitution. Then it would have been a crime, I’m sure, to engage in homosexuality in 1776.
    Like · Reply · Just now

  • MC

    Maybe Obama forgot about the sodomy laws? If the framers had gay marriage in mind then why was there sodomy laws? SMH…

    “Whosoever shall be guilty of Rape, Polygamy, or Sodomy with man or woman shall be punished, if a man, by castration, if a woman, by cutting thro’ the cartilage of her nose a hole of one half inch diameter at the least.”—Thomas Jefferson, 1778

    ” 1625 Richard Cornish is hanged for sodomy with another man in Virginia. This is the first known death sentence for sodomy in the American colonies, although it is unclear if there was legal authority for the sentence.

    1777 A committee works on a revised set of criminal law for Virginia. Thomas Jefferson and other liberals attempt to have the death penalty for sodomy replaced by castration for men and boring a hole through the nose of a woman. The committee rejects their suggestion and retains the death penalty.”

    “That if any do commit the detestable and abominable vice of Buggery, with man or beast, he or she so offending, shall be adjudged a felon, and shall suffer death, in the case of felony, without the benefit of Clergy.”

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Yes, except all sodomy laws were ruled unconstitutional in Lawrence v. Texas.

      • pastoredsmith

        And, incest? There is already a measure to legalize incest; this in spite of the ramblings of homosexuals who said this had nothing to do with legalizing homosexual marriage. Well, the truth is that bestiality, polygamy and a host of other deviant and chosen lifestyles come up next to be “legalized” under your misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment.

        • Phipps Mike

          hey dummy, animals are not protected under the 14th amendment. Get a grip.

      • MC

        That’s not the argument.

  • Joel Rivera

    I’d sure like to know what part of the Constitution specifically says what McKenyan is bragging about. It’s funny how this Tyrant changes his opinion, putting his finger to the wind. Nothing is sincere with him when everything is a game of politics.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      The 14th Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause.

      • Gary

        Can you prove that the 14th Amendment requires the legalization of ssm? I don’t think so.

        • Evolution is a fact

          “No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.” Is that enough “proof” for you?

          • Gary

            No. Nothing written in the 14th Amendment requires ssm to be legal.

          • Evolution is a fact

            No, but it does require that it not be illegal.

          • Gary

            No, it does not.

          • pastoredsmith

            Wrong again.

          • pastoredsmith

            Not the way you misinterpret the 14th Amendment! Not at all. Nothing here requires a chosen behavior to take the same spotlight as those of racial things or other non-chosen things in humanity. Homosexuality is not a “right,” it is a chosen behavior. It is not in any way connected to civil rights. It is a group of people who demand their way of life be accepted in society; but more than that, they want silence from everyone who disagrees with them. This part of the demand is against everything the US was built upon and has been until recently.

          • Evolution is a fact

            Couple questions:

            1. What is your evidence that homosexuality is a “chosen behavior”?

            2. Why is homosexuality bad for our country?

          • pastoredsmith

            You asked, here are your answers, if you wish to take the
            time to read them.

            1. What is your evidence that homosexuality is a “chosen
            behavior”?

            Researchers have said about their own work is important in understanding whether homosexuality is “genetic” or “chosen.”
            Here are some examples:
            • From the 1991 Hypothalamus (Brain) Study, Simon LeVay, who self-identifies as gay, said: “It’s important to stress what I didn’t find. I did not prove that homosexuality is genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn’t show that gay men are born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain.”

            • From the 1993 X Chromosome Study, Dean Hamer – also a gay man – said: “…environmental factors play a role. There is not a single master gene that makes people gay…I don’t think we will ever be able to predict who will be gay.”

            • From the 2005 Fruit Fly Study, Barry Dickson, the lead researcher, admitted that the understanding of how innate behaviors are genetically determined is “rudimentary at best.” He also admitted that the male-male courtship behaviors they observed probably involved “environmental
            and social stimuli” and that the female-female courtship behavior was abnormal – missing some key steps.

            • And what about the 2005 male and 2006 female pheromone studies from Sweden that gay activists claimed were more evidence of a biological basis to homosexuality? (Pheromones are chemicals that can be smelled and are known to influence animal behavior. However, their role in humans is unknown.) Here, it is significant that Ivanka Savic, the lead researcher, said that the 2005 study had nothing to do with proving homosexuality to be biological. And regarding the 2006 study, she said “it is very important to make clear that the study has no implications for possible dynamics in sexual orientation.”

            • More recently, Dr. Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome Project, summed up the research on homosexuality saying that “sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hard wired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations” (italics added). As a comparison, Collins indicates that the potential genetic component for homosexuality is much less than the genetic contribution that has been found for common personality traits such as general cognitive ability, extroversion, agreeableness, conscientiousness, neuroticism, openness, aggression and traditionalism.
            Clearly, the case for a “gay gene” has not been made.

            2. Why is homosexuality bad for our country?

            1. It Is Not Marriage
            Calling something marriage does not make it marriage.
            Marriage has always been a covenant between a man and a woman which is by its nature ordered toward the procreation and education of children and the unity and well-being of the spouses. The promoters of same-sex “marriage” propose something entirely different. They propose the union between two men or two women. This denies the self-evident biological, physiological, and psychological differences between men and women which find their complementary in marriage. It also denies the specific primary purpose of marriage: the perpetuation of the human race and the raising of children.
            Two entirely different things cannot be considered the same
            thing.

            2. It Violates Natural Law
            Marriage is not just any relationship between human beings.
            It is a relationship rooted in human nature and thus governed by natural law.

            3. It Always Denies a Child Either a Father or a Mother.
            It is in the child’s best interests that he be raised under
            the influence of his natural father and mother. This rule is confirmed by the evident difficulties faced by the many children who are orphans or are raised by a single parent, a relative, or a foster parent. The unfortunate situation of these children will be the norm for all children of a same-sex “marriage.” A child of a same-sex “marriage” will always be deprived of either his natural mother or father. He will necessarily be raised by one party who has no blood relationship with him. He will always be deprived of either a mother or a father role model. Same-sex “marriage” ignores a child’s best interests.

            4. It Validates and Promotes the Homosexual Lifestyle
            In the name of the “family,” same-sex “marriage” serves to
            validate not only such unions but the whole homosexual lifestyle in all its bisexual and transgender variants. Civil laws are structuring principles of man’s life in society. As such, they play a very important and sometimes decisive role in
            influencing patterns of thought and behavior. They externally shape the life of society, but also profoundly modify everyone’s perception and evaluation of forms of behavior.
            Legal recognition of same-sex “marriage” would necessarily
            obscure certain basic moral values, devalue traditional marriage, and weaken public morality.

            5. It Turns a Moral Wrong into a Civil Right
            Homosexual activists argue that same-sex “marriage” is a
            civil rights issue similar to the struggle for racial equality in the 1960s.
            This is false.
            First of all, sexual behavior and race are essentially
            different realities. A man and a woman wanting to marry may be different in their characteristics: one may be black, the other white; one rich, the other poor; or one tall, the other short. None of these differences are insurmountable obstacles to marriage. The two individuals are still man and
            woman, and thus the requirements of nature are respected.
            Same-sex “marriage” opposes nature. Two individuals of the
            same sex, regardless of their race, wealth, stature, erudition or fame, will never be able to marry because of an insurmountable biological impossibility. Secondly, inherited and unchangeable racial traits cannot be compared with non-genetic and changeable behavior. There is simply no analogy between the interracial marriage of a man and a woman and the “marriage” between two individuals of the same sex.

            6. It Does Not Create a Family but a Sterile Union
            Traditional marriage is usually so fecund that those who
            would frustrate its end must do violence to nature to prevent the birth of children by using contraception. It naturally tends to create families. On the contrary, same-sex “marriage” is intrinsically sterile. If the “spouses” want a child, they must circumvent nature by costly and artificial means or employ surrogates. The natural tendency of such a union is not to create families. Therefore, we cannot call a same-sex union marriage and give it the benefits of true marriage.

            7. It Defeats the State’s Purpose of Benefiting Marriage
            One of the main reasons why the State bestows numerous
            benefits on marriage is that by its very nature and design, marriage provides the normal conditions for a stable, affectionate, and moral atmosphere that is beneficial to the upbringing of children—all fruit of the mutual affection of
            the parents. This aids in perpetuating the nation and strengthening society, an evident interest of the State.
            Homosexual “marriage” does not provide such conditions. Its
            primary purpose, objectively speaking, is the personal gratification of two individuals whose union is sterile by nature. It is not entitled, therefore, to the protection the State extends to true marriage.

            8. It Imposes Its Acceptance on All Society
            By legalizing same-sex “marriage,” the State becomes its
            official and active promoter. The State calls on public officials to officiate at the new civil ceremony, orders public schools to teach its acceptability to children, and punishes any state employee who expresses disapproval. In the private sphere, objecting parents will see their children exposed more than ever to this new “morality,” businesses offering
            wedding services will be forced to provide them for same-sex unions, and rental property owners will have to agree to accept same-sex couples as tenants.
            In every situation where marriage affects society, the State
            will expect Christians and all people of good will to betray their consciences by condoning, through silence or act, an attack on the natural order and Christian morality.

            9. It Is the Cutting Edge of the Sexual Revolution
            In the 1960s, society was pressured to accept all kinds of
            immoral sexual relationships between men and women. Today we are seeing a new sexual revolution where society is being asked to accept sodomy and same-sex “marriage.”
            If homosexual “marriage” is universally accepted as the
            present step in sexual “freedom,” what logical arguments can be used to stop the next steps of incest, pedophilia, bestiality, and other forms of unnatural behavior? Indeed, radical elements of certain “avant garde” subcultures are already advocating such aberrations. The railroading of same-sex “marriage” on the American people makes increasingly clear what homosexual activist Paul Varnell wrote in the Chicago Free Press:
            “The gay movement, whether we acknowledge it or not, is
            not a civil rights movement, not even a sexual liberation movement, but a moral revolution aimed at changing people’s view of homosexuality.”

            10. It Offends God
            This is the most important reason. Whenever one violates the natural moral order established by God, one sins and offends God. Same-sex “marriage” does just this. Accordingly, anyone who professes to love God must be opposed to it. Marriage is not the creature of any State. Rather, it was established by God in Paradise for our first parents, Adam and Eve. As we read in the Book of Genesis: “God created man in His image; in the Divine image he created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them, saying: ‘Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.’” (Gen. 1:28-29)
            The same was taught by Our Savior Jesus Christ: “From the
            beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife.” (Mark 10:6-7).
            Genesis also teaches how God punished Sodom and Gomorrah for
            the sin of homosexuality: “The Lord rained down sulphurous fire upon Sodom and Gomorrah. He overthrew those cities and the whole Plain, together with the inhabitants of the cities and the produce of the soil.” (Gen. 19:24-25)

            This info comes from various sources; The Holy Bible, TFP Student Action, Citizen Link, Focus on the Family and others.

          • SFBruce

            You claim you’ve “proven” that homosexuality (and presumably, heterosexuality and bisexuality) are chosen, but you’ve done nothing of the sort. I accept the fact that sexual orientation isn’t entirely genetic, because that’s precisely what the evidence shows. But that doesn’t mean that sexual orientation is chosen; in fact, the same science you reference does show that genetics plays a role, even though it doesn’t fully explain how sexual orientation is formed. How we come to be gay, straight or bisexual isn’t fully understood, but there are no mainstream behavioral scientists or professional organization that represents them that believe that choice has anything to do with sexual orientation.

          • pastoredsmith

            Yes, it is chosen. You completely ignored what the Bible clearly says about the subject: It is condemned as sinful. The same as adultery and any other sexual activity outside of marriage. How you came to be gay or “bisexual” (I don’t think anyone really knows what that means) is of your own choice. Nobody MADE you that way. Certainly, God didn’t create you as a homosexual. All sin is chosen, and homosexuality is clearly a sin. So, I did prove that being homosexual or being any deviant form of sexuality is a sin. You refuse to hear the truth, and simply rely on your “knowledge” that is actually a boatload of foolishness and hyperbole. Only God can answer the question, and He did just that.

          • SFBruce

            Perhaps you actually don’t realize you haven’t even tried to refute any of the claims I made regarding your “proof” that sexual orientation is chosen. You’re correct that I’ve completely ignored what the Bible says about the subject, and that’s because we have a secular government, which means our laws and public policies have to be based on more than your personal, religious views. I will say that there are those who don’t share your view about the Bible’s message regarding homosexuality,

            I stand by my claim that the current scientific consensus is that sexual orientation isn’t chosen.

          • pastoredsmith

            I realize fully that I did indeed fully and completely refute every claim you made. I gave you solid proof of the fact that homosexuality is a sin, and that it is destroying the USA as we speak. You chose to reject it. Welcome to America. You do have the right to be wrong; at least until the “change” that is happening to our country is reversed. And, you very much are. wrong. Very. Wrong. Have a nice day.

          • SFBruce

            I hope you have a nice day, as well. During the course of that nice day, please consider these two things: (1) Saying something over and over isn’t participating in debate, nor does it constitute an attempt to actually refute another person’s claim. (2) No one knows everything about everything. Just consider the possibility that you’re wrong about homosexuality.

          • Evolution is a fact

            The science is not settled on homosexuality:
            http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/06/04/the-science-of-sexuality-how-our-genes-make-us-gay-or-straight

            As to your arguments on why homosexuality is bad:

            1. It Is Not Marriage
            Marriage can be whatever we decide it is, just as we do with every other legal concept we have.

            2. It Violates Natural Law
            Animals exhibit homosexual behavior, so that negates the Natural Law argument

            3. It Always Denies a Child Either a Father or a Mother
            True, but irrelevant. First, you compare same-sex marriage to single parenting, which is obviously not comparable. Secondly, your argument about “blood relationship” would also be an argument against adoption. You are not opposed to adoption are you?

            4. It Validates and Promotes the Homosexual Lifestyle
            True, and that is a good thing.

            5. It Turns a Moral Wrong into a Civil Right
            I reject the idea that homosexuality and same-sex marriage is a moral wrong.

            6. It Does Not Create a Family but a Sterile Union
            Procreation has never been a requirement for marriage. Would you deny marriage to a man and woman who are too old to have children?

            7. It Defeats the State’s Purpose of Benefiting Marriage
            Do you think unmarried gay people are better for society than unmarried gay people?

            8. It Imposes Its Acceptance on All Society
            See number 4.

            9. It Is the Cutting Edge of the Sexual Revolution
            This is a classic slippery slope argument and is invalid. If you think pedophilia is now inevitable, you should seriously reconsider it.

            10. It Offends God
            Which one? Not everyone believes in the same god you believe in, or any god at all for that matter. Why should anyone be forced to believe what your god says over someone else’s?

          • Opus35

            Great minds think a like, although I bow to yours, which seems much better than mine. Peace

          • pastoredsmith

            You gay people truly baffle me. You are presented with the truth from God’s perspective, from scientific perspective and you still argue that your movement is a civil rights movement, a peaceful movement that will not harm society and that it is indeed a chosen lifestyle and you still deny the truth. Marriage was defined by God. This country and any other that engages in licensing marriages, although not bound to obey the Scriptures, will pay the price that Sodom and Gomorrah did. You can argue that all you wish, but the time will come when I say to you, “I told you so, but you wouldn’t listen.” Marriage is NOT anything you people decide it is. It is what it is. Animals are not human beings and do not act as human beings do. They also, in large part, do not choose a mate for life. They do not cross bread (you will never see a horse/dog). And, the well being of children is MOST RELEVANT to this conversation. I personally know of women and men whose spouse left them and took the kids to “come out” and join with a same sex partner while devastating the spouse left behind and the kids. Decimated. And, you say that is not relevant?

          • Evolution is a fact

            1. I’m not gay.
            2. I am an atheist, so I reject any claims that a supernatural being is telling me how to live my life or that I will be punished if I don’t follow “him”.
            3. Animals are not human beings, but human beings are animals. And how is “cross-breeding” relevant to this debate?
            4. The well being of children is relevant, but anecdotes about a man leaving his wife because he is gay is evidence of nothing. Spouses leave each other all the time for all sorts of reasons. Even good Christian spouses do it.

          • pastoredsmith

            Frankly, atheist, I’m tired of arguing with your ilk. You are bullies who hate God and hate Christians even more. Then, you deny that you can’t hate a God you don’t believe in, yet you spend your time arguing with those of us who do. You sue anyone who dares to stand up for their beliefs in public. Your Freedom From Religion Foundation is hateful, arrogant and your “religion” is now official since you have “churches,” complete with “clergy” and a tax deduction. You got what you wanted. Your argument is irrelevant without God, so I won’t waste my time arguing with you. Until you accept Christ as who he says He is, we have nothing to talk about; except that I will pray that your eyes are opened to your hatred and you see the truth. Have a good day, sir.

          • Evolution is a fact

            So, until I agree with you, you won’t argue with me? Time for some religion pigeon…

          • pastoredsmith

            Not religion. Christianity. Huge difference. After all, atheism that you love so much is “religion,” and it is all false. Good day, sir.

          • Evolution is a fact

            Atheism is not a religion. Have you ever been right about anything?

          • pastoredsmith

            That is the biggest crock yet. You have “churches,” complete with “clergy” and tax deductions. The very premise that your FFRF fights so hard against Christians as an organized group under the banner of “religion neutral public places” is in and of itself a religion. No. I won’t argue with you. GOOD DAY SIR.

          • Evolution is a fact

            What’s wrong, you afraid of a little competition?

          • pastoredsmith

            You really don’t know the meaning of “I don’t argue with atheists,” do you? No, I’m not afraid of you. I CHOOSE not to talk to you because you are a bully….just like your bully buddies at FFRF. I won’t argue with you. GOOD DAY, SIR.

          • Opus35

            He has no real argument to give. That’s why they get mad and runaway.

          • KenS

            The surpeme court made the decision that atheism is a religion in its 1961 Torcaso v. Watkinscase decision

          • Evolution is a fact

            I don’t think that is correct. It did say secular humanism can be considered a religion though.

          • KenS

            It stated that theistic religions could not be favored by the Court over non-theistic religions, because atheism is as equally religious as theism. That is establishing atheism as a religion.

          • Evolution is a fact

            Atheism and non-theistic religions are not the same thing. Atheism is not a religion.

          • KenS

            Did you even read my comment, the ruling stated “…BECAUSE ATHEISM IS AS EQUALLY RELIGIOUS AS THEISM.” that is the part I was referencing and the part that clearly established atheism as religion, you need to read the whole sentence, instead of stopping at the comma.

          • Evolution is a fact

            Okay, so the court was wrong. Happens all the time.

          • KenS

            Really? How hypocritical of you! The court is wrong when it goes against what you believe, but not when it goes against what Christians believe about homosexuality? Do you seriously not see the hypocrisy in that.

          • Evolution is a fact

            Are you actually saying that because I agree with the court on some things, I have to agree with it on everything?

          • KenS

            what i am saying is that when this decision was first made the atheists hailed it as a victory for their rights, but now when it is used to show that their religion of atheism is being taught in schools they are now saying the court was wrong to give them their religious freedoms. It is a double standard.

          • Evolution is a fact

            How is the “religion of atheism” being taught in schools? What is the holy book of atheism? What are it’s laws?
            “If atheism is a religion, then abstinence is a sex position.”
            -Bill Maher

          • KenS

            I’m glad you asked! While it is often said that Creation should not be taught in public schools because it is religious, it shold be understood that evolution is the basis for far more religions than Creation. If fact, evolution is the bases of the overwhelming majori of the world’s religions, here are some: Buddhism, Taoism, Sikhism, anitmism, satanism, unity, mysticism hinduism, Occultism, theospy spiritism bahaism, unitarianism, jainism, confucianism, shinotoism, secular humanism (which was specifically mentioned in my referenced court case), romancatholicism, liveral judaism, liberal christianity, liberal Islam, therefore teaching evolution in schools is teaching atheism in schools.

          • Evolution is a fact

            Most (if not all) of those religions predate evolution, so it is impossible for them to have evolution as their basis. Also, evolution is science, not religion. I’ll give you points for creativity though.

          • KenS

            Evolution starts out as there is no god, that statement alone makes it a religion per the supreme court’s decision that atheism, the belief that there is no god, is a religion.

          • Evolution is a fact

            Evolution makes no claim for or against god.

          • KenS

            Yeah, keep on deceiving yourself

          • Opus35

            I sometimes wonder why we bother to come the sites like this. It’s never a real debate, as you pointed out it’s all about their arrogance.

          • Evolution is a fact

            It’s my religious duty. LOL!

          • Opus35

            Hahaha yes it is.

          • Gary

            Marriage is only one thing: the union of a man and a woman who are eligible to marry each other. That is all marriage will ever be. You can pretend whatever you want, but those of us who are sane are not going to play along.

          • Evolution is a fact

            The courts disagree with you.

          • Gary

            The courts are wrong. And I have no respect for them.

          • Evolution is a fact

            I’m sure the judges spend many sleepless nights lamenting that you think they are wrong and that you have no respect for them.

          • Gary

            I’m sure they don’t care what I think. Tyrants usually don’t care what the people they view as their “subjects” think of them. These judges are arrogant. They know they have a lifetime position.

          • Evolution is a fact

            The judges are arrogant? There is no group of people more arrogant than religious people who believe they have everything all figured out and that they are the only people who know the real truth. They are so arrogant, that they insist that everyone believe the same way that they do or risk eternal punishment. If science refutes or conflicts with something their “holy” book says, they reject it outright as either a lie, a mistake, a conspiracy, demon possession, or some other such nonsense.

          • Gary

            I don’t insist you believe anything. Believe whatever you want. But don’t expect me and others to make the same mistakes you are making.

          • Evolution is a fact

            Again, arrogance. You believe, based on your religion, that I am making mistakes.

          • Opus35

            Make sure you get writing credit for that book you just published.
            There is no proof that heterosexuality is not a choice. If you want to say you were born heterosexual, then you have to concede, that someone else can be born homosexual.
            1. It Is Not Marriage
            When Loving v Virginia, was brought to the courts, many people considered blacks to be animals. Absurd thought in this day an age.
            Women were thought to be property when married. Menon them and control them. Try tell this to any women now.
            2. It Violates Natural Law
            Since you’re not clear on what you mean by natural law I’ve gone ahead and made my own interpretation.
            If you know anything about nature, you know that homosexuality existing most creatures who are of high intelligence. Monkeys Dolphins etc.
            If you’re talking about survival of the species and that men and women are to procreate to keep the species going. Think about the 7billion people on this planet. I don’t see that as being a big problem anytime soon.
            3. It Always Denies a Child Either a Father or a Mother.
            Funny I never hear anyone worrying about all the single parents or the teenagers who have children out of wedlock.
            4. It Validates and Promotes the Homosexual Lifestyle.
            With 55% to 58% of Americans in favor of SSM I think people are making their minds up on their own.
            5. It Turns a Moral Wrong into a Civil Right.
            As I have just mentioned most Americans have no problem with same-sex marriage. Only extreme right looks at this as a
            moral issue. Never taking count that not everyone prescribes to their Christian values.
            We live in a country where civil rights is granted to every citizen. Not to do so would be un American.
            6. It Does Not Create a Family but a Sterile Union.
            Many gays and lesbians, have had their own biological children. This can be achieved by either an opposite sex partner in marriage before the gay or lesbian was willing to be honest with themselves.
            Or simple artificial insemination to lesbian, or in the case of a gay male a surrogate mother.
            7. It Defeats the State’s Purpose of Benefiting Marriage.
            One of the main reason for same-sex marriage, is the need to allow the partner over surviving partner not to be thrown out on the street. There’s property, cars, 401k, pension plans, Social Security, living wills power of attorney.
            8. It Imposes Its Acceptance on All Society
            As I have mentioned once before, 55% to 58% of Americans approve of same-sex marriage.
            9. It Is the Cutting Edge of the Sexual Revolution.
            I am sure that we all have matured since the original sexual revolution.
            And see it free love as it was sent then is not the best way to live.
            Many gays and lesbians are in long-term relationships. I myself have been with my partner for 20 years.
            Was married last fall in 2013.
            10. It Offends God
            As I respect every Christians right to believe in what they want as it is for them, one must remember not everyone is a Christian. The laws of the great country are to serve all the people, not just some of the people.

            If you want you can attach this to your book above as a counterpoint.
            I apologize for any misspelled or missed used words. As I am using my speech to text software.

          • pastoredsmith

            This is the stupidest reply yet. Are you making this stuff up as you go? I cited scientific studies and the Bible itself and you try to refute it right off the top of your head? It is not me who does not understand natural law, it is you. And, this is not a “black vs white” issue!! This is about a chosen lifestyle. It is about a sin. It is about the decimation of the family by people leaving their spouses and kids to “come out” to applause from the gay community.

          • Opus35

            I see you are a kind Christian. Not surprising. If you like the sites for the polls that will be no problem.
            http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/support-for-gay-rights-more-entrenched-across-the-country/2014/03/04/24417d20-a405-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_graphic.html

            http://www.gallup.com/poll/169640/sex-marriage-support-reaches-new-high.aspx

            You think of this as an issue, it’s not an issue, its mine and many others life. You think that a heterosexual knows what it’s like to be gay or lesbian. That is very insensitive of you. How would you know anything about being Gay or lesbian. You are not, and your Science is nothing more than junk science.
            You can’t prove that being heterosexual is not a choice, so how do you think you can prove being gay or lesbian is a choice.
            This is America there are many Christians here and that’s a good thing, but it is not a viable legal argument for or against same-sex marriage.
            Next time you post to me, try to be a little nicer. ;7)

          • pastoredsmith

            Nicer? If your house was on fire and I told you….then you refused to believe me, so I yelled at you that your house was burning to the ground; you would probably call me all manner of names. The fact is that I am a very kind person with a very kind and compassionate nature. But, I’m tired of being run over by the bulldozer of stupidity and misinterpretation that is being presented by homosexuals who want to smash the world of people who disagree with their conclusions. It is not me who started this. It is not me who decided that people would come to me who were devastated by a spouse who “came out” and abandoned them. It is not me who listens to constant lies and misinterpretations of science…..I will be nicer when you listen and acknowledge that your challenge to “change” America to the Gay states of America is not welcomed; given that you wish to silence anyone who opposes your viewpoint. Perhaps you should take your own medicine next time.

          • Opus35

            My house is not on fire! Your sense of urgency is not mine. Did you read all of my comments or did you read until you thought you had enough?
            I can not help the fact that you have an already a decided opinion about me, without knowing me. I have said nothing to you to deserve your spite.
            We are all adults, we here exchanging opinions. It does not have to be combative. If you are a good person, the why not give me the benefit of the doubt that I am a good person.

          • Opus35

            One long tyrant of hate!

          • pastoredsmith

            You are wrong. I do not hate you nor anybody else. It is you who judge and charge me with hate. It is you who hates me, not vice versa.

          • Opus35

            I do not hate, it is truly against my religion. I did not judge you. You called me stupid. Was I not to take offense of it it? I have discussions and debates. I go to different sites looking for different opinions. I think the exchange of different thoughts and opinions is good for our country. But both parties need to be open to the other one opinions. When you called me stupid, well I’m not open to your opinion anymore.

          • pastoredsmith

            Then, please get your facts straight. I never called you stupid. I said, “This is the stupidest reply yet. Are you making this stuff up as you go? I cited scientific studies and the Bible itself and you try to refute it right off the top of your head?…” It is very different to call your comment “stupid” than to call YOU “stupid, which thing I never did. You guys with your back door attacks won’t work. You have no credible argument, so you make it up as you go and then attack those of us who are informed and educated as to the truth about the whole “gay” situation. Good day, sir.

          • Opus35

            You are splitting hairs, it was not a complement.

          • Opus35

            I am not making it up as I go. I told you this is my life, you can make that up.

          • pastoredsmith

            You people really don’t understand the meaning of “GOOD DAY, SIR!!” do you? Arguing with you people is akin to arguing with a rock. GOOD DAY, SIR!!!

          • Opus35

            You do have an anger problem don’t you.

          • pastoredsmith

            No, I don’t, in spite of the fact that you constantly try to provoke me to anger. It isn’t working. Once again, GOOD DAY, SIR!!!

          • Opus35

            I am not a sir.

          • pastoredsmith

            Now, who is angry? GOOD DAY, secret identity.

          • Opus35

            Am not writing in caps. Just informing you.

          • Phipps Mike

            “I am a very kind person ” except to Gays, their supporters, non christians and God knows who else.

          • Wootsauce

            Well… That was awesome! You summed up how I feel about this situation too. Thanks!

          • EastOldWest

            You don’t know how to be a good Christian do you? You were not very nice to opus. You don’t call other people stupid. Not less you want to be called stupid. Is that something you would like us all to call you, stupid? Act like an adult!

          • pastoredsmith

            It appears that you, EastOldWest, love nothing more than to attack the messenger because you hate the message. You do what “gays” do. You judge me, then claim that I judge you. No, it isn’t that way at all. I wasn’t the one to start this argument about homosexuality. I wasn’t the one trolling Christian News wires looking to pick a fight. I’m not the one spouting lies to all who will listen and bragging about how “smart” I am. I am not destroying this country with the redefinition of “marriage” while leaving their devastated spouses behind in the trail of hurt and pain. Nice? Under the circumstances, I have been extremely “NICE.”

          • EastOldWest

            I never said I was gay. What in any of my words I said made you think I am gay?
            I was reading your post, and could not believe you called opus stupid. I saw no reason to call opus stupid. It’s bad manners. That’s all I was commenting on. It does seem now that you have little bit of an anger problem you need to deal with.

          • pastoredsmith

            I stand by my statement. What do you call those who hear / read the truth and deliberately refuse to accept it? The proof of the fact that homosexuality is a chosen lifestyle is overwhelming, yet gays claim the opposite. And, I do not have an anger “problem.” Yes, I am angry that people’s lives are being devastated by those “coming out” and leaving families behind while receiving thunderous applause. I am angry that America is tanking in the same manner as Sodom and Gomorrah.

          • EastOldWest

            Because you think there’s proof that means it’s true. Have you read the other comments on this page, and the different links that have been made available?
            You are very entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to treat others poorly because of your opinion.
            You insist on calling me gay even after I told you I was not, because in your mind a heterosexual man could never stand up for a gay man or lesbian. Sad, so sad.
            You deserve me rattling off quite many descriptive words about your lack of qualities, But I will not stoop to your level.

          • pastoredsmith

            No, I don’t insist on calling you gay. I insist that your assessment of me is wrong because you disagree with me. And, the opinion I expressed in my proof that homosexuality is a choice was derived from scientific studies, not opinion. I am appalled at how people see scientific and Biblical proof that this is a sin….a chosen activity and yet reject it. Then, you come along and attack me in this manner while passing judgement on me? If you’re not gay, then who are you? You seem hell-bent on judging me.

          • EastOldWest

            If a gay person called you stupid, what would you do? If I called you, stupid what would you do? Obviously opus is a better person than you, no insults no criticism just a debate.
            I saw an injustice or rudeness and I called you on it, you don’t like that I get it.

          • pastoredsmith

            You still ignore my question. If you’re not gay, then who are you? You are quick to judge and slow to answer. And, I have been called ignorant, backwards, “flat earther” and a lot of other names by homosexuals and atheists…and recently.

          • EastOldWest

            I am not gay, I don’t understand the question!?! Are you gay, if not what are you? You make it sound like I’m some type of creature then.

          • Opus35

            Thanks you can let it go! He is not worth it. You are kind, thanks.

          • EastOldWest

            Just standing up for what I believe this country should represent. Thank for what you said.

          • Opus35

            Peace.

          • EastOldWest

            Back at you!

          • pastoredsmith

            Sorry, I am rejecting your back door attack of my character. Your accusations are inaccurate from the beginning when you said, “You don’t know how to be a good Christian do you? You were not very nice to opus. You don’t call other people stupid.” I never called him (or whoever “opus” is) “stupid.” I said, ” This is the stupidest reply yet. Are you making this stuff up as you go? I cited scientific studies and the Bible itself and you try to refute it right off the top of your head? It is not me who does not understand natural law, it is you. And, this is not a “black vs white” issue!! This is about a chosen lifestyle. It is about a sin. It is about the decimation of the family by people leaving their spouses and kids to “come out” to applause from the gay community.” I stand by my comment. That WAS the stupidest reply yet. Get your facts straight. I am not arguing with you any more. I have stated my case well and nobody has refuted it; only made false claims against it. Good day, sir.

          • Phipps Mike

            Ed, “I cited scientific studies ” yet science cant prove God, so God doesn’t exist, just like genetic (inborn) attraction doesn’t exist because science cant prove it…. you lost way up there ^

          • EastOldWest

            Really, get some help. You have issues beyond comprehension. Peace.

          • Phipps Mike

            “It is about the decimation of the family by people leaving their spouses and kids ”
            oh cry me a river! there are plenty of fish in the sea.

          • EastOldWest

            As you judged opus, and other like him/her. Peace.

          • Wootsauce

            Opus IS stupid… or at least a fool.

          • EastOldWest

            You know I would think, that someone could come to a discussion site give an opinion, and get feedback. This has been my experience on other sites. It is obvious to me, that if someone gives a different opinion, then the one that is in the article. The “regulars” of the site feel the need to tell them their stupid or imply that they’re stupid. What arrogance, self-righteousness, and downright rude.
            I don’t know whether to never come back to the site, or make it a regular just do battle with people like yourself.

          • Wootsauce

            Please do. I enjoy it personally. Until such a time as someone has been presented with the truth over and over again and chooses to ignore it (Opus). It’ll be interesting to see how things play out.

          • EastOldWest

            So you are say if I disagree with your position, I am wrong. So the only ones right, are the ones that agree with the author of the article.That’s interesting.

          • Opus35

            You know what else is interesting?
            How you can turn and talk to
            EastOldwest, but not to me.
            EastOldwest is right, if others disagree, then they are wrong according to the post on this page, and they don’t want to hear the truth. It never occurs to any of you that each person has their own truth. You guys really are arrogant.

          • Wootsauce

            If we’re so bad, stop engaging us and go hang at HuffPo with other intellectuals.

          • Opus35

            I can go wherever I want. The sites are here Is an open form, to exchange different ideas. Not all a like thinks. Please come to politico anytime you want. We welcome polite and honest conversation.
            You should check out the most recent post on this page. It’s an apology from me. I think it’s important to apologize when you’ve given false information.
            Maybe next time when you have a complaint with me you’ll tell me and not someone else. Peace

          • Phipps Mike

            “It is not me who does not understand natural law, ” really? hmmmm…”sexual orientation is genetically influenced”

          • Phipps Mike

            Ed, you embarrass yourself…from your OWN post: “sexual orientation is genetically influenced”” ummmm genetically MEANS INBORN, Can we ALL say DUHHHH!!!!

          • Wootsauce

            Alcoholism is genetically influenced but you could hardly say an alcoholic was born that way…

          • Phipps Mike

            having an inborn disposition to become something is pretty successful. Alcoholics is a GREAT example, thanks for supporting my argument. THINK, woot. Genetic IS inborn, your genes are PART of you at birth, They dont come later.

          • Wootsauce

            A genetic predisposition is no excuse to exhibit a behavior.

          • Phipps Mike

            so that means you shouldnt have sex either, Because you can choose not to. Hetero sex and homosexual sex is no different in terms of morals. We dont go by Gods rules in America.

          • James Grimes

            Very well done. I doubt if he would have read it. The legitimate points made here may have been too complicated for Atheists to understand. Good try though.

          • Wootsauce

            Wow. You just got worked on that one.

          • Gary

            There is nothing in that which requires ssm to be legal.

        • SFBruce

          The vast majority of federal judges (about 25 or so) have used the guarantee of equal protection under the law demanded by the 14th amendment to overturn state bans. All those opinion are available online, if you want to take the issue up with them. The 14th amendment was the same basis the Supreme Court used in 1967 to overturn bans on inter-racial marriage. Do you think they were also wrong?

          • Gary

            Equal protection is realized when the law applies to everyone. The traditional requirements for a marriage license have been the same for homosexuals as for heterosexuals. A case cannot be made that homosexuals have been treated unequally.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Ok then you should be able to dismantle any one of those rulings. Go ahead, pick one and explain how it was incorrectly decided. We’ll wait.

          • Gary

            The judges want to legalize ssm. But they cannot use the US Constitution to do it, so they have to lie about what the Constitution says. The judges arrogantly think they can say the Constitution means whatever they want it to mean, regardless of what it says. They are tyrants that need to be overthrown.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Not even close.

            Pick one decision and go through every piece of case law cited that forms the basis of that decision. Explain why that case law either doesn’t apply or doesn’t support the overall ruling.

            I’m not saying it’s going to be easy, but you’re the one propounding the idea that these decisions were made in error. The burden is on you.

          • Gary

            I only care what the Constitution says. I don’t care what ANY federal judge has ever said. The Constitution is what is important.

          • BarkingDawg

            That is the same argument that various states made in defense of anti-miscegenation laws 50 years ago. It didn’t work then, it’s not working now

          • Gary

            Nothing works when the judges are determined to legalize ssm, no matter what.

          • BarkingDawg

            It’s too bad that we continue to move forward to a more just and equitable society, isn’t it?

          • pastoredsmith

            Wrong conclusion. We move towards a less civil society that resembles Sodom and Gomorrah.

          • BarkingDawg

            So you want to go back to a time wherever stoned “witches ” to death.

            That is the type of old testament society you seem to believe in.

          • pastoredsmith

            You know nothing about me, and yet you spout such lies. We live in the NEW TESTAMENT era. And, you should study about Old Testament LAW if you want to learn about what happened then and why it did. We are not Muslims. We don’t behead, stone or crucify Christians and slaughter innocent people. Your comment is totally slanderous and inaccurate. It is yet another attempt to kill the messenger when you have absolutely nothing else to say; no credible argument because you know you lost this one. Good day, sir.

          • Phipps Mike

            “less civil society ” how is homosexuality uncivil? another DUH moment, Ed.

          • Gary

            There is nothing just about equating ssm with real marriage. That is injustice.

          • BarkingDawg

            Why? It has no impact on you.

          • Opus35

            Gary are you a politician. Because that was a lot of slick baloney. You know very well that if a gay or lesbian was willing to marry an opposite sex partner, they wouldn’t be gay or lesbian.

          • Gary

            It does not matter to me who homosexuals are willing to marry, or even if they want to marry. I am not going to change the definition of marriage in order to please sexual perverts and their enablers.

          • Phipps Mike

            define sexual perverts, bet you get it wrong. There is nothing morally wrong with having sex with the same sex. It shares the same desires and monogamy as hetero sex. Save you the energy, to pervert, means to “twist”. Natural attraction leading to a perfectly legal act is not “twisting”.

          • Gary

            According to the Bible, having sex with anyone outside of marriage, which must be between a man and a woman, is immoral. God defines morality, not you or me.

          • Phipps Mike

            but Gary, not everybody is a Christian and the U.S doesn’t make Christianity a law.

          • Opus35

            Gary, didn’t you mother tell you not to call other names?
            It doesn’t matter what you will or will not do. This is not, let’s get Gary to approve of SSM. The point is let’s get 19 more states, and then we will be done. 8)

          • pastoredsmith

            Interracial marriage and homosexuality are two very different things. Race is not chosen by man, it is chosen by God. There is absolutely no credible evidence that a person is born “homosexual.” Homosexuality is a learned, chosen behavior that happens as a result of what James in the Epistle (New Testament, for you Biblically illiterate folks) when temptation (an outside force) is acted on by the flesh, resulting in sinful action. A robber is not born that way. A murderer is not born that way….and closer to the issue, a rapist is not born that way. These, like homosexuality or infidelity in marriage (adultery) are chosen acts. Yes, these activist judges are dead wrong. Federal judges overturning State Constitutional Amendments is against everything the US Government was established to be.

          • SFBruce

            Your understanding of sexual orientation is completely as odds with the current scientific consensus, which is that sexual orientation, whether gay, straight or bi isn’t chosen. Comparing private, consensual sexual activity with acts like murder, theft and rape. which are universally condemned is what makes no sense.

          • pastoredsmith

            If you wish to discover how wrong and completely ignorant your statement about “current scientific consensus” is, please refer to another post on this thread where I gave extensive proof of how the current homosexual “civil rights” movement is man-made and is a chosen behavior.

          • Phipps Mike

            “chosen behavior.” to act on the NOT CHOSEN attraction, yes.

          • Gary

            The behavior is the problem.

          • BarkingDawg

            Exercising a particular form of religious belief is a choice, is it not?

          • Opus35

            Religion is a choice by men, being gay or lesbian is not a choice.
            Gay by nature, proud by choice.

          • pastoredsmith

            Half right. “religion” is a choice. Being Christian is a choice given by God Himself. “….whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” As to your assertion that being “gay” is “by nature, that is completely ridiculous and to be vastly ignored as idiocy.

          • Opus35

            More name calling. You need to talk to someone about that.

            © 2014 American Psychiatric Association.

            No one knows what causes heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality. Homosexuality was once thought to be the result of troubled family dynamics or faulty psychological development. Those assumptions are now understood to have been based on misinformation and prejudice. Currently there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality. Similarly, no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse. Sexual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, than in children who identify as heterosexual..
            http://www.psychiatry.org/lgbt-sexual-orientation

          • Phipps Mike

            “Homosexuality is a learned, chosen behavior ” absolutely wrong to the 100th power. Nobody CHOOSES attraction, Its NATURALLLLLL….comprende? You dont get turned on by CHOICE. Thats a real DUH moment for you Ed.

          • Gary

            Homosexual behavior is perversion.

          • brine

            God said lost and saved were not supposed to marry…didn’t say anything about a black and white marrying. The fact people may have tried to use scripture to justify prejudice doesn’t discount that God clearly states homosexuality is a sin. 14th amendment would have never been intended to promote deviant behavior by those that took it up.

          • Opus35

            Gods law is not in the Constitution. And let us not forget that this great country is not made up of only christians.

          • pastoredsmith

            Christian principles are woven throughout the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution. No denying that. Also, it was several of our founding fathers of this great nation who said that it is preferable for Christians to run this country. They were right. Christians changed slavery laws, and a host of other good things. The country is going downhill fast and not very many people seem to care.

          • Opus35

            God is not in the Constitution, except when they sign and date. As it was customary to sign with in the Lord year. Other then that none of the original amendments have anything in them about God.

          • Gary

            Those judges have misused, and abused the US Constitution. They should all be impeached. If there was such a thing as justice in the US government, they would be.

          • Phipps Mike

            says the guy that could NEVER be a SCOTUS judge. You are NO expert so neither is your opinion to weigh their expertise.

        • Ambulance Chaser
          • pastoredsmith

            Rogue judges do not make it right. I stand firmly against these rulings that clearly violate the US Constitution.

          • BarkingDawg

            Anyone who disagrees with you is a rogue, eh?

            Too bad for you.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            You can “stand firmly” against whatever you want but the law is still the law.

            (And are you really “standing firmly” against something when you’re not actively doing anything to change it?)

        • BarkingDawg

          The courts have determined that it does.

      • pastoredsmith

        The 14th Amendment in no way grants the Feds the right to trample over states rights as is happening these days by activist Federal Judges who are overturning state Constitutional Amendments. Their power is not limitless, and there will be a challenge at some point.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Are you saying that there’s no Supremacy Clause? Because there definitely is. Art VI, Clause 2.

        • Phipps Mike

          “The 14th Amendment in no way grants the Feds the right to trample over states rights ”
          SCOTUS is existent for the sole purpose of correcting injustices of the Constitution giving them the right to trump States laws if they are in non compliance. Its called checks and BALANCES for a reason, Ed.

  • William Mazeo

    Homosexuality today.
    Pedophilia and zoophilia tomorrow.
    When part of the trash is accepted the rest will come sooner or later. And it’s already happening 🙁

    • MattFCharlestonSC

      That argument is getting tired, and has already been shot down by everybody who exhibits even a modicum of reasoning skill.

      • William Mazeo

        It already started. But if you don’t want to see it it’s your problem. Most didn’t notice yet. When it arrives most will be seeing it as normal, just like they unfortunately do with homosexuality now.
        May God have mercy on these people. Especially this guy Obama… he is doing so much bad but I bet he knows it…

        • MattFCharlestonSC

          I would venture a guess that the rates of person/animal sexual interaction haven’t changed — the only thing that has changed is visibility of it. To listen to all of you, someone might think that there is a huge group of people out there who are itching to have sex with animals and the only thing that has been holding them back is the law. I would say that even now, if someone wants to sleep with a goat, they’ll probably find a goat instead of making a civil rights complaint.

        • Opus35

          Where has it started? What paper or news source have you seen this on?
          I would love to read an article.

    • Evolution is a fact

      WooHoo! Soon, zoophilia will be legal! Yeah baby!

      • BarkingDawg

        I love zoos, myself.

        Aquariums are cool also

      • Tyler Fontaine

        YES!! Finally, The Plan is finally coming together! *Maniacal laughter and chamber music plays*

    • Tyler Fontaine

      I’ll help translate for those of you who don’t speak idiot: “THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! HELP, HELP, I’M AFRAID!”

  • Simon Hankins

    What it all comes down to is simple really. Were Penises made to go into Anuses? Straight up.

    • Tyler Fontaine

      Yes, they were, actually.

      • Simon Hankins

        So what your saying is so were your fingers, sausages, carrots, broom handles, and all other similar things? These were all designed and made to go into bums?

      • MC

        You must be into feces.

    • Phipps Mike

      simon, guys do that to WOMEN, too.

      • Simon Hankins

        Yes I know this. Do you think this is what God intended we do with our manhood?

        • Phipps Mike

          I dont care what God intended. I don’t partake in anal sex myself but I am not so gullible to believe that all Christians who are hetero never partake in it with their wives and yet go against Gays who do the very same thing. Can you say hypocrites? A rectum is a rectum whether its on a male or a female,

          • Simon Hankins

            I agree. It is all a sin against God as to sin is to miss the mark. All sin is just as bad but there are sins God hates and he tells us about those in his Word. All fall short of the glory of God and there isn’t one of us who don’t. But for the purposes of anatomy and the actual proper function of it the Rectum is for passing Waste and Gas not for Reproduction. A guy making love to another guys bum is missing the mark even though he may consider he his hitting it.

          • Phipps Mike

            ” to miss the mark”
            theres a pun in that if you think about it.

  • Tyler Fontaine

    I just love the whole “The world is going to garbage! Those nasty gays keep getting their way!” tantrum from you lot. It must feel horrible to know you truly have no control over the rights (YES, RIGHTS) of others, but I have no sympathy for you. The tide is turning away from you every day. Every day that passes leaves people like you behind in the dust, because time is marching on and things are changing… there is nothing you can do to stop it, either. You’ll be a sad memory in a text book one day, much in the way slavery and the Inquisition is.

    • Gary

      See my post just above yours.

  • Haqodeshim

    It’s not about the Constitution, it’s about tyranny:

    When your Government’s god is money, soon it is not just interested in forcing a small Christian business baker or florist to provide baked goods or floral arrangements for homosexuals marriage ceremonies, thus violating the first amendment, it moves for your children’s souls too!

    http://www.rightwingnews.com/uncategorized/ny-middle-school-forces-girls-to-ask-one-another-for-lesbian-kiss-and-pretend-like-they-are-on-a-date/

    Some production companies and some popular books, sell the notion that the Beast is coming and the last days are about to come, but in reality, they are already here.

    1% of America’s wealthy are millionaires or greater in wealth. 50% of the 1% reside in the SEVEN counties surrounding Washington, DC. So our Government is no longer a Republic, but rather a shadow illusion of one. What we have is an oligarchy that does not represent the 99% of the rest of the country.

    The current argument over homosexuality began with our Progressive Government, who’d much rather talk about it rather than reform taxation so marriage is not at the center of it as Rand Paul suggested before the Supreme Courts enabling of the Progressive agenda, nor stop the Progressive Government’s enslavement of the populace with their overspending; no instead they throw out the red herring of homosexual rights to redefine marriage which is none of their business instead of reforming themselves, their overspending and abusive taxation. They’ll push the homosexual agenda through the eye of the needle and strain out a gnat rather then pass a constitutional amendment requiring a balanced budget,so if you didn’t know what the Progressives agenda was before, you do now.

    The SEVEN hills of Babylon/Rome from Revelation are alive and well in the SEVEN counties surrounding Washington, DC, and they worship the BEAST/”love of money”!

    13“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other,or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”

    14 The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. 15 He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight. – Luke 16 NIV; http://bible.com/111/luk.16.13-15.niv

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/george-walter-bratcher-iii/are-you-serving-god-or-money/10152129277556373

    • Haqodeshim

      Homosexuals are 1.5 percent of the population, and the 50% of the 1% in DC are driving their agenda to avoid reforming themselves, their overspending, and their over taxation and abuse of the populace, and the proof is neither a Republican nor Democrat controlled congress have yet to pass a balanced budget amendment to the US Constitution, like the State Constitutions in KY, TN, and IN, and others have so that Government can’t spend more than it takes in.

      But maybe its easier for some to let Big Progressive Nanny State Government provide (and even here they are lying as we are seeing with Obamacare as it unfolds) womb to the tomb healthcare (and with abortion the womb becomes the tomb, making billions for the abortionists after 56 million abortions since 1973) and that tells you how to walk, talk, and chew gum at the same time as your new god!

      Because when Big Progressive Nanny State Government can be your god, what in Hades do you need a 1st amendment for in the first place?

      If Government were to reform itself and take marriage out of the tax equation, then there is no need for Government to redefine it, and no need for homosexuals to worry about getting married and penalized on monetary benefits for not doing so.

      “Gay marriage is a lie.”
      “Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we’re going to do with marriage when we get there.”
      “It’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist.” (This statement is met with very loud applause.)

      “Gay Marriage is a Lie: Destruction of Marriage, Masha Gessen” –
      http://youtu.be/n9M0xcs2Vw4

      In the meantime, I rest my case on the godless agenda of Progressives (who desire to be your new god) who do not want to abide by a Republic, and would assume a fuller Oligarchy than the shadow one they already have if it were not for the US Constitution.

      • Opus35

        So! Just because minority is a small minority is no reason to stand on their civil rights.
        I will say this over and over again. 55% of Americans approve of same-sex marriage. That Number is as high as 59%. That says a lot.

        • Gary

          ssm is not a right that you have as a result of your existence, or because you are an American. It is a right created by tyrannical federal judges, who lack the authority to create such a right.

          • Opus35

            Oh Gary, you see it is, we only have 19 more states to go. And it will be a give right. ;7)

        • Haqodeshim

          I’m not grabbing my pitch fork and encouraging my neighbor to go burn down the house of the homosexual, but by the same token, if Government takes marriage out of th tax equation, homosexuals can get all the same monetary benefits as married couples, not have them denied to them upon a partners death, and at the same time Government doesn’t need to act tyrannical upon the wishes of a RICH minority (50% of the 1% pushing the agenda of the 1.5%) and redefine marriage which IS NOT Governments business upon the majority of Americans.

          If that’s the type of Government you want, move back to England and encourage them to make Queen Elizabeth absolute ruler; that seems to be the mindset of liberals like Gwenyth Paltrow who wants to give Obama all the POWER he needs – such a Govenment is an Oligarchy, not a Republic – “Republic vs Democracy” – http://youtu.be/KFXuGIpsdE0?list=PLB6EB4D72C22473EE

          • Opus35

            Are you threatening us? Wow you know in this day and age threatening on the Internet not a good idea.
            That is all well and good, but SSM is happening , 19 to go. You will have to get used to it.

          • Haqodeshim

            Typical spin, I was not threatening you, but by the same token why should the majority be threatened by the 50% of the 1% wealthy minority that runs DC, and doesn’t represent the 99% and push the agenda of the 1.5% homosexuals onto the rest of us, instead of taking marriage out of the tax equation? The Big Progressive Nanny State Government 50% of the 1% types love the diversion, while they over spend, continue deficit spending, and then overtax to support their Big Progressive Nanny State Government! These professional LEECHES are a shadow Oligarchy that hides in a Republic, and are the real threat.

            Next time you might trying sticking to facts and logic, and live the Alinsky Spinning Wheel at home – https://www.facebook.com/notes/george-walter-bratcher-iii/you-cannot-serve-jesus-and-follow-saul-alinsky/10152231550411373

          • Opus35

            I was joking with you, get a sense of humor. So you or the General public get decide who gets rights and who doesn’t? So if General public, wanted to vote to not give rights to you that would be ok with you. I mean the people of spoken! You get no rights anymore.

          • Haqodeshim

            If you take marriage out of the tax equation, and non-married couples get all the benefits of those married as man and wife, what is it again you lose? However, if a tyranny of the minority redefine marriage and destroy the American family, we all lose.

          • Opus35

            How will you lose with SSM, being in all 50 states and DC? If you are married, is your relationship that weak that SSM can destroy it?

        • Haqodeshim

          If this is so, why does it lose time and time again at election booths when put the the majority (even in California) and then Progressive Activist Judges and Politicians have to over turn in in a court of law?

          It’s because it is not as high as 55%.

          • Opus35

            Cording to the Washington Post and ABC news it’s about 59%. It has not come up for for a vote in about 2 years or so. You don’t get to have the general public decide to make someone else a second-class citizen.

          • Haqodeshim

            Do you know how those polls are done? With an IVR – meaning they are calling listed numbers in the White Pages and often target the known liberal demographic they are after, this is WHY when put to a vote to the mass populace, as in California, at the voting booth, the mass populace says “NO” every SINGLE TIME!

          • Opus35

            So if the polls point in our favor, they’re not reliable. But if the polls say Christian Republicans are the best Americans there are, those polls would be pretty accurate wouldn’t they.

          • Haqodeshim
          • Opus35

            Neither!

          • Haqodeshim

            If self is god, then money is your idol, because it gives you the power to do what you want regardless of its effects on others; Nietzsche called the term “Superman” and the Nazis who considered him one of their founding Fathers and of whom his sister was a member of, called their infantry, SS – Super Soldiers, and they took the notion that who holds power dictates right and wrong for others, but they are not subject to it, to its logical ends winding up in a second world war. They were an oligarchy, and since 1% of US Citizens are millionaires and greater in wealth, and 50% of the 1% reside in the 7 counties surrounding DC and infest as Progressives in both the Democrat Party as Majority and as GOP majority, we no longer have a Republic but shadow Oligarchy. The Progressives in Stalin’s Russia and Hitler’s Germany said “Revolution” but their American counterparts, said, “No, no. evolution” – http://youtu.be/cNrfY4U9WYM?list=PLB6FD57E2DDE07689

          • Opus35

            I never said that I worshiped myself! You should not assume things about people. I am a Zen Buddhist. I do not get in religious discussions, with other people, I respect your point of View, but please try to respect mine. Peace

          • Haqodeshim

            The self as the source of enlightenment is laughable, that is like saying I am gold, but let me go panhandle and mine for myself first. If you are gold, you don’t have to go dig yourself up.

            Zen Buddhism, trying to reach enlightenment by releasing self from the attachments of the world, problem is this was even a problem with Socrates as Kierkegaard pointed out:

            Now if we assume that the structure is as we have assumed (and unless we do, we go back to the Socrates), namely, that the teacher himself provides the learner with the condition, then the object of faith becomes not the teaching but the teacher, for the essence of the Socratic is that the learner, because he himself is the truth and has the condition, can thrust the teacher away. Indeed, assisting people to be able to do this constituted the Socratic art and heroism. Faith, then must constantly cling to the teacher. But in order for the teacher to be able to give the condition, he must be god, and in order to put the learner in possession of it, he must be man. This contradiction is in turn the object of faith and is the paradox, the moment. That the god once and for all has given man the condition that is the eternal Socratic presupposition, which does not clash inimically with time but is incommensurable with the categories of temporality. But the contradiction is that he receives the condition in the moment, and, since it is a condition for understanding of eternal truth, it is “eo ipso” – the eternal condition.

            – Soren Kierkegaard from PHILOSOPHICAL FRAGMENTS Chp. IV

          • Opus35

            What part of “I do not get in religious discussions, with other people, I respect your point of View, but please try to respect mine.” do you not understand?

          • Haqodeshim

            Anton Levay, who founded the Church of Satan, said Satanism is not about worshiping Satan, but rather self, and make no mistakes works righteousness is idolatrous and ultimately a worship of “self” and not Yahweh.

            Make no mistake searching inward for enlightenment is worship of self, and religion, so don’t come in here pretending you are not religious. Zen Buddhism is the root for the modern narcissist.

          • Opus35

            Your crazy right?!?

          • Haqodeshim

            In another hundred years, you will find that life doesn’t end just because you suffer physical death. You cannot leave this space-time continuum/universe, without the gift of Jesus’ Holy Spirit, so you can’t go to the New Heaven (New Universe) and New Earth, if you have accepted the NT Covenant and believed on Jesus, and been adopted into the House of Yahweh – https://www.facebook.com/notes/george-walter-bratcher-iii/there-is-holy-and-then-there-is-holy/10150452285491373 – Yeshua/Jesus (Yahweh is Salvation) came and died to keep the promise he made to Abraham in Genesis 15, and so this is why angels proclaimed to shepherds who raised the very sheep to be sacrificed at the temple, “Peace on Earth, and goodwill towards men!” For the final sacrifice was made so that the House of Abraham and of Mankind might not be destroyed, but it is a choice, and its starts by conversing with the Creator of this universe (heaven) and this Earth.

          • Haqodeshim

            You ask me now I know He lives? He lives within my heart:

            paraclatos/parakletos – counselor/comforter are poor translations – NT GREEK – One who comes alongside to help – imagery is of a parent holding a toddler’s hand and helping their child learn to walk. This is what Jesus promised grown men he chose as his disciples when he promised he would not leave them as orphans.

          • Haqodeshim

            The Magi found Jesus as a toddler on December 25, 2BC, and he died on April 3. 33AD, and it’s written in the stars, just use an astronomy program to find it or watch for yourself – http://youtu.be/0MP7Kl1_Y4Q?list=PLOqiEYwhz4FQSJneIvy3-fz-Pr-w2AovF – and learn.

  • alnga

    While you were thinking how your family, friends, co-workers and neighbors felt you did not one time consider what God has already spoke to you about this very issue. You have read His Word and it comes screaming at you this very day. It is an abomination. A sin so grievous that it has been given several references through out the entire Bible. Mr Obama either you lied to us intentionally or you completely missed the lessons that God has sent to you in His Holy Book.

    • Opus35

      Religion does not = law. Law does not = religion

      • Phipps Mike

        well said.

      • The Last Trump

        Wonder what God’s opinion is on the matter. Yes, yes, “which God?” right? Doesn’t matter. If there is a chance that there is one, we all better be damn sure we side with Him. (yes, yes, “or Her”. Man, you people are unbearable!)

        • Opus35

          I was once told that one God, many names. I can live with that.

        • LinCA

          But how do we pick which method of worship is sufficiently pleasing to this god, or gods, if we don’t know the particulars? Most gods aren’t fond of worshipers of rival deities. Pissing it/them off won’t surely help us.

          • The Last Trump

            Research. Most of us would like God to just come on down and converse with us. But it’s just not happening. So God can’t be real then? Wrong. Jesus, for instance, told US to seek. And we shall find! But the onus is on us. If we truly humble ourselves and ask for forgiveness for the miserable things we all have done and ask God to reveal Himself to us, then we will have put the ball in His court and done our part. Absolutely worked for me and millions of others who took the risk of feeling foolish. You will never regret it. What’s the worst that could happen? (And I was once a very outspoken advocate for ridiculing the Bible. Until I actually read it and began to research it. Fascinating! But a personal relationship with God in the here and now? Done deal! Case closed. 😉

          • LinCA

            You said, “Research.
            Any publications that are particularly convincing?

            You said, “Most of us would like God to just come on down and converse with us. But it’s just not happening. So God can’t be real then?
            No, it’s not impossible, just very unlikely it is real.

            You said, “Jesus, for instance, told US to seek. And we shall find! But the onus is on us. If we truly humble ourselves and ask for forgiveness for the miserable things we all have done and ask God to reveal Himself to us, then we will have put the ball in His court and done our part.
            How exactly does that work for someone how doesn’t already believe?

            Could you do the same thing and ask the Tooth Fairy to reveal herself? If not, what makes your god any different? Why would you expect anyone who doesn’t already believe it is real to “humble him- or herself” before it?

            You said, “Absolutely worked for me and millions of others who took the risk of feeling foolish.
            I bet you were brought up with religion. I suspect you got your beliefs in your god from your parents. What makes your interpretation the correct one? Yours is but one of many (there are some 40,000 different sects, cults and denominations in christianity alone, and thousands of other religions and deities invented over the millenia)

            You said, “What’s the worst that could happen?
            You could be worshiping the wrong god and incur the wrath of the real one. At a minimum you’d be wasting a lot of time and resources worshiping a fictional character.

            You said, “And I was once a very outspoken advocate for ridiculing the Bible. Until I actually read it and began to research it. Fascinating!
            How can you worship a god that commands genocide, rape and slavery (Numbers 25 and 31, just to name a few)?

          • The Last Trump

            Many of your points are very good ones, which I struggled with myself. But some are also circular and lead nowhere, simply designed for the sake of arguing. Now I could go over all of your points and attempt to “convert” you, but my efforts would be futile. Nobody could convince me before I was actually ready to listen and consider the possibility that maybe I wasn’t quite as smart as I thought I was. And not I, or anybody else, has the ability to speak eloquently enough to convince you of the reality of God. That’s His job. If you don’t take the chance and make the attempt to go straight to the source, then no person will ever be able to convince you. Go ahead and pray to the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny. Good luck with that. And then pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and call out to the name of Jesus and simply ask for guidance in truth. Then see what happens. You’ll never be the same. And THAT’S what convinces. Suddenly you will see the world with “new” eyes and see God at work all around you and you will be amazed at how you could have possibly missed it before. You will pray for answers to your questions and the answers will find their way into your life to your utter amazement. And the “physical” evidence is actually overwhelming. You want to talk about publications! Pick a topic! Archaeology, history, science, astronomy, genetics, physics, prophecy! Everything the Bible has ever predicted has come to pass and continues to with each new day. Our history books match up perfectly with the “history” told to us in advance in the Bible, particularly regarding the future of the Jewish people. When you start to investigate this marvel of literature you discover that it consists of 66 books that were penned by 40 different authors in three different languages and from various walks of life across a period of thousands of years. It is so unique that there is not another book like it on earth. One of a kind, thanks to its Author. This was a deliberate and gradual design whereby God revealed Himself to mankind over time. None of these individual authors claimed any of the credit for the messages they were given and most didn’t even want the job. Many, like the prophet Daniel, didn’t even have a clue what they were writing about and
            were told not to concern themselves with the visions that confused and disturbed them because they concerned a generation in the distant future who would understand (you know, restored Jewish state, atomic warfare, satellite technology, holocausts). And things start to get really disconcerting when, despite having been written by so many different authors who have been separated by geography and time, you discover an integrated design of unmistakable uniformity throughout, maintaining its cohesion and bringing into focus a clearer overall picture of future events which have continued to come to pass with regularity. But you will never realize this until you start checking things out, beginning with the invitation for God to enter into your life. Or, you can just keep wondering in bewilderment at what all the fuss is about and never get to actually see what God could have done in your life. God knows you have your doubts. And He understands why. Just give Him a chance to prove it to you Himself. It’s up to you.

          • LinCA

            You said, “But some are also circular and lead nowhere, simply designed for the sake of arguing.
            No, they are not.

            You said, “Now I could go over all of your points and attempt to “convert” you, but my efforts would be futile.
            Unlike believers, I can be convinced by a rational argument. You just don’t have any.

            You said, “And not I, or anybody else, has the ability to speak eloquently enough to convince you of the reality of God. That’s His job.
            Your god is just as fictional as the Easter Bunny. It won’t convince me of anything because it doesn’t say or do anything. It exists nowhere other than in your mind.

            You said, “If you don’t take the chance and make the attempt to go straight to the source, then no person will ever be able to convince you.
            What source? Your book of Bronze Age folklore?

            You said, “Go ahead and pray to the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny. Good luck with that. And then pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and call out to the name of Jesus and simply ask for guidance in truth. Then see what happens.
            The exact same thing will happen. Nothing. Nothing at all. I was a believer once, then I hit my teens and got cured. Been there, done that.

            You said, “You’ll never be the same. And THAT’S what convinces.
            Have you given Odin an fair shake? Ra? Mithra? Zeus? Why not? Have you really tried to believe in and pray to the Tooth Fairy? I doubt it. I doubt you even will, simply because you don’t already believe she exists. You reject her because she is an obvious invention of man.

            To me it is blatantly obvious that your god is no different. Your god is simply the explanation primitive goat herders made up for stuff they didn’t understand. It is utterly ridiculous to believe that it is real.

            You said, “Pick a topic! Archaeology, history, science, astronomy, genetics, physics, prophecy! Everything the Bible has ever predicted has come to pass and continues to with each new day.
            Be specific. Name one, and show me how it came to pass. And I’ll show you how idiotic it is to take it as evidence of anything.

            Your book of fairy tales was edited and polished to play to the gullible.

            You said, “But you will never realize this until you start checking things out, beginning with the invitation for God to enter into your life.
            Unless there is a reason to believe it exists, I’ll pass.

            You said, “Or, you can just keep wondering in bewilderment at what all the fuss is about and never get to actually see what God could have done in your life.
            I’m well aware of the damage the delusional beliefs in imaginary friends does to society.

            You said, “God knows you have your doubts.
            I have as many doubts about your imaginary friend as I have about any other fictional characters.

          • The Last Trump

            Great discussion. Wasted my time I see. Thought you might actually be open minded enough to give God a chance. Perhaps later. Quite often its all about the timing. Or the right person who we can relate to better, to open us up to something we’ve shut our minds too. As things continue to fall apart around us and financial collapse sets in, perhaps you might be a little more inclined to the possibility. Or not. Not my problem. I’m not here to convince anybody. Nobody had to convince me. I did my own homework and took my own chances when it became important enough for me. Your future is in your own hands. And you obviously have no need for God at this time. However, that often changes throughout the course of a person’s lifetime. Just remember this conversation, and if so inclined do a little research. Can’t hurt right? And no, I did not grow up a Christian. Just did my homework. We can see clear design in ourselves and the universe we live in. So who was the designer? Aliens or God? In my journey I discovered that only one religion explains all the rest, answers our most important questions, holds up to scientific scrutiny and dares to predict the future with absolute accuracy and fine detail. Its not MY religion. Its THE religion that happens to have all the answers and scientific evidence to back it up. There’s a reason that there is a Shroud of Turin that 35 years of extensive scientific research still cannot explain. There is a reason the Jews are back in their ancient homeland after over 2000 years. There is a reason Israel is surrounded by the hostile armies of its Muslim neighbours who are committed to their destruction. And there is a reason that the entire world is coming together to put pressure on Israel to give up her land for “peace”. Just as there is a reason that a once Christian nation clearly blessed by the God she once honoured is all of a sudden declaring war on God, redefining marriage, targeting Christians, banning Bibles from public places, outlawing Bible studies, and removing religious monuments, crosses and scriptures that have stood for generations. Remarkable to me that there are folks who seem to believe that this is just some kind of amazing coincidence that all of the alarming events that we are witnessing just happen to match exactly with what is depicted in the pages of the Holy Bible. Or maybe they just don’t give a damn. Armageddon is such a well known concept in our television, movies and pop culture. And yet here we have a generation seemingly oblivious to the stage being set for it, right before there very eyes! Astounding will-full blindness! Sad part is, no one will have any excuse. God has given us warning after warning and spelled it out precisely. And you have millions of Christians around the world on sites like these sounding the alarm daily, but for many to no avail. Just keep searching and test everything. If there is a God than there will be evidence to support that. And I can assure you that, evidence, there is! Just have to bother to check it out. Good luck and God bless!

          • Phipps Mike

            “Armageddon is such a well known concept in our television, movies and pop culture. And yet here we have a generation seemingly oblivious to the stage being set for it, ”

            there you go again, A “doomsayer” is no less loony than a paranoid conspiracy theorist. I already proved up above that no man will know when the apocalypse will happen. I posted the direct verse for it.

          • The Last Trump

            Ahh, the labels! Doomsayer! How about optimist! Hope and change I can believe in! (all about the spin! 😉 And you hardly proved anything about the timing of the Second Coming. Other than your need for further study. Soooooo…….what are we supposed to be WATCHING for, exactly? Not the DAY or the HOUR, as that’s pretty precise, but the general time will be known you think? “But ye, brethren are not in darkness, that that day should overtake YOU as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us WATCH and be sober.” 1 Thess 5:4. Hmmm…..Let’s ask Jesus: “So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, EVEN AT THE DOORS.” Mathew 24:33. At the doors!? Wow. That’s not really what Mike’s telling me, now is it. Think I’ll go with Jesus. As far as “doomsaying,” let’s see now. Israel back as a nation after over 2000 years…check. Surrounded by enemies committed to her destruction…check. Nations of the world pressuring Israel to give up her land for peace…check. Status of Jerusalem an unmovable obstacle to peace…check. Looming financial collapse…check. World-wide godlessness and sexual anarchy…check and check. World full of folks with blinders on tightly willfully ignorant to the realities around them as they engage in sinful rebellion…check. Ya, I guess you’re right Mike. Nothing to see here. Back to sleep…

          • Phipps Mike

            “World-wide godlessness and sexual anarchy…check and check. ”
            neither of those are true.
            When God decides to come is not determined by our behaviors. In other words, it is all pre-destined, he already had when he was going to come back decided way back when Adam and Eve sinned. Nothing we say or do will pro-long the armageddon nor give us a rain check.

          • LinCA

            You wrote, “Thought you might actually be open minded enough to give God a chance.
            If presented with a rational case for its existence, I will. So far, nothing has even come close.

            You wrote, “Quite often its all about the timing.
            It has nothing to do with timing and everything to do with the complete and utter lack of anything even resembling rational support for the existence of your imaginary friend. As I mentioned before, I used to be a believer, then I grew up.

            You wrote, “As things continue to fall apart around us and financial collapse sets in, perhaps you might be a little more inclined to the possibility.
            Nothing in the perceived demise of society supports the existence of your imaginary friend. There have been calamities, death and destruction throughout recorded history. Today is nothing new.

            You wrote, “Nobody had to convince me.
            I suspect that you were indoctrinated as a child to believe in the god of your parents. That is how virtually every believer is infected.

            You wrote, “I did my own homework and took my own chances when it became important enough for me.
            Your “homework” was nothing more than searching for support for what you already believed. All you were looking for was confirmation of your previously held beliefs.

            You wrote, “Your future is in your own hands.
            Of course it is.

            You wrote, “And you obviously have no need for God at this time.
            I have just as much need for gods as I have for the Easter Bunny. I doubt that is going to change anytime soon.

            You wrote, “Just remember this conversation, and if so inclined do a little research.
            I have done my research. Your god is just as real as the Tooth Fairy. It’s utterly pathetic that there are still so many adults in the 21st century that cling to infantile beliefs in fictional characters.

            You wrote, “And no, I did not grow up a Christian. Just did my homework.
            Are you claiming that your parents were atheists? Did they not teach you about the god that they believed in? Did they not go to church, temple, mosque, or some other house of worship? Ever?

            Are you really saying that you grew up not believing Yahweh was real, and then after you became an adult, you started believing in it? Really? If that is truly the case, I have some ocean front property in Kansas that you might be interested in.

            You wrote, “We can see clear design in ourselves and the universe we live in.
            No, you only project your bronze age beliefs on reality.

            You wrote, “So who was the designer? Aliens or God?
            Neither. It was most likely a natural process. That we don’t exactly know what that process was doesn’t mean your imaginary friend did it.

            Claiming that your imaginary friend did it provides no answer, anyway. It simply pushes it back to where this imaginary friend came from. And whatever answer you can come up with to explain where it came from applies just as well to the universe.

            In such a case, Occam’s razor suggests that your god is an unnecessary addition.

            You wrote, “In my journey I discovered that only one religion explains all the rest, answers our most important questions, holds up to scientific scrutiny and dares to predict the future with absolute accuracy and fine detail.
            Abject nonsense. Only if you distort both scientific reality and your interpretation of your folklore, could that possibly be made to fit.

            Science soundly rejects, for instance, the creation nonsense. The universe and Earth are far older than your fairy tale suggests. Humans didn’t come from a single couple. There was no global flood.

            It’s all Bronze Age folklore. It is nothing more than the superstitions and campfire stories of ignorant goat herders. They were clueless about almost everything and made stuff up to fill the gaps in their knowledge. It’s mind boggling that anyone still believes such nonsense today.

            In the 21st century, this kind of ignorance is a choice.

            You wrote, “Its THE religion that happens to have all the answers and scientific evidence to back it up.
            It is one of thousands of religions. Religions like yours are a dime a dozen (and overpriced at that).

            You wrote, “There’s a reason that there is a Shroud of Turin that 35 years of extensive scientific research still cannot explain.
            It’s been conclusively established to be a fake.

            You wrote, “There is a reason the Jews are back in their ancient homeland after over 2000 years.
            Yes, there is. Those that established modern Israel knew how to read.

            You wrote, “There is a reason Israel is surrounded by the hostile armies of its Muslim neighbours who are committed to their destruction.
            Of course. Their land was stolen. They were, and still are, abused by those that stole their lands.

            You wrote, “And there is a reason that the entire world is coming together to put pressure on Israel to give up her land for “peace”.
            It has no right to the land it now occupies.

            You wrote, “Just as there is a reason that a once Christian nation clearly blessed by the God she once honoured is all of a sudden declaring war on God, redefining marriage, targeting Christians, banning Bibles from public places, outlawing Bible studies, and removing religious monuments, crosses and scriptures that have stood for generations.
            Persecution complex much?

            The US constitution guarantees freedom of religion for everyone. That christians have been afforded special privileges in the past doesn’t mean they have the right to force their delusion on everyone else.

            You are free to cling to your delusion. You are free to bring your bible, or pray in public. You are free to not enter into a same sex marriage. You don’t get to tell anyone else what they can, or can’t do.

            You wrote, “Remarkable to me that there are folks who seem to believe that this is just some kind of amazing coincidence that all of the alarming events that we are witnessing just happen to match exactly with what is depicted in the pages of the Holy Bible.
            You are delusional, aren’t you?

            There are no alarming events. You are (again) projecting your delusion on what you perceive as a different era. It’s the same as when slavery was outlawed, or when women got the right to vote, or when civil rights were granted to everyone. It’s progress. It’s only those stuck in the past that can’t seem to recognize it.

            You wrote, “Or maybe they just don’t give a damn.
            It’s because I give a damn. A more equal society is the hallmark of civilization. Religion is the exact opposite.

            You wrote, “Armageddon is such a well known concept in our television, movies and pop culture.
            Get some help. Your delusion appears to make you depressed.

            You wrote, “And yet here we have a generation seemingly oblivious to the stage being set for it, right before there very eyes! Astounding will-full blindness!
            If you managed to get your head our of the Bronze Age and into the 21st century, maybe you’d see the light. I won’t be holding my breath, though.

            You wrote, “Sad part is, no one will have any excuse. God has given us warning after warning and spelled it out precisely.
            Your imaginary friend is going to do what, exactly?

            You wrote, “And you have millions of Christians around the world on sites like these sounding the alarm daily, but for many to no avail.
            I rarely take the advice of the deluded. Make a rational case for your god and we’ll talk.

            You wrote, “Just keep searching and test everything. If there is a God than there will be evidence to support that.
            Since I’m not the one making the claim that there is such a creature, it isn’t my job to provide evidence for it. There is, as far as I know (and I have looked), not a single shred of evidence for it yet. Billions of believers in all kinds of gods have utterly failed to present a reasonable case for their gods. To me it is clear that they are no more real than the Tooth Fairy.

            You wrote, “And I can assure you that, evidence, there is! Just have to bother to check it out.
            Utter nonsense. All you have is faith and a strong confirmation bias.

  • Child of God

    Amen! Obama is a religious nothing. He needs some serious Prayer. According to the Bible, he’s gay to, if you condone it, you may as well be doing it. And why bring Christians into the mess he’s made. We should never be forced to go against our own Religious beliefs just because he gave in to the Devil. Obama will be the one punished by God for every Christians sins that there forced to do because of what he’s done. We are so Sick an tiered of bailing everyone out because of his stupidity. Thank God his days are numbered

  • Phipps Mike

    “And, given the direction of society, for the Court to have allowed the process to play out the way it has may make the shift less controversial and more lasting” now this is the crux of the argument and it is all about how well society will take it, that will coax or not coax SCOTUS into making one sweeping decision.

    “Ultimately, I think the Equal Protection Clause does guarantee same-sex marriage in all fifty states,” he said in an interview published this week by the New Yorker”

    notice he said “I THINK…..” meaning he is going by how the words would INCLUDE same sex marriage as a right. He knows as well as we all do that the founding fathers didn’t write the equal protection clause for the purposes of gay marriage but that the way it is written, Gay marriage is included by the reasoning.

    Until there is an amendment to that clause that would say “except for Gay marriage”, gay marriage will have to be included in that clause.

  • MC

    The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage

    ADAM KOLASINSKI

    The debate over whether the state ought to recognize gay marriages has thus far focused on the issue as one of civil rights. Such a treatment is erroneous because state recognition of marriage is not a universal right. States regulate marriage in many ways besides denying men the right to marry men, and women the right to marry women. Roughly half of all states prohibit first cousins from marrying, and all prohibit marriage of closer blood relatives, even if the individuals being married are sterile. In all states, it is illegal to attempt to marry more than one person, or even to pass off more than one person as one’s spouse. Some states restrict the marriage of people suffering from syphilis or other venereal diseases. Homosexuals, therefore, are not the only people to be denied the right to marry the person of their choosing.
    I do not claim that all of these other types of couples restricted from marrying are equivalent to homosexual couples. I only bring them up to illustrate that marriage is heavily regulated, and for good reason. When a state recognizes a marriage, it bestows upon the couple certain benefits which are costly to both the state and other individuals. Collecting a deceased spouse’s social security, claiming an extra tax exemption for a spouse, and having the right to be covered under a spouse’s health insurance policy are just a few examples of the costly benefits associated with marriage. In a sense, a married couple receives a subsidy. Why? Because a marriage between two unrelated heterosexuals is likely to result in a family with children, and propagation of society is a compelling state interest. For this reason, states have, in varying degrees, restricted from marriage couples unlikely to produce children.

    Granted, these restrictions are not absolute. A small minority of married couples are infertile. However, excluding sterile couples from marriage, in all but the most obvious cases such as those of blood relatives, would be costly. Few people who are sterile know it, and fertility tests are too expensive and burdensome to mandate. One might argue that the exclusion of blood relatives from marriage is only necessary to prevent the conception of genetically defective children, but blood relatives cannot marry even if they undergo sterilization. Some couples who marry plan not to have children, but without mind-reading technology, excluding them is impossible. Elderly couples can marry, but such cases are so rare that it is simply not worth the effort to restrict them. The marriage laws, therefore, ensure, albeit imperfectly, that the vast majority of couples who do get the benefits of marriage are those who bear children.

    Homosexual relationships do nothing to serve the state interest of propagating society, so there is no reason for the state to grant them the costly benefits of marriage, unless they serve some other state interest. The burden of proof, therefore, is on the advocates of gay marriage to show what state interest these marriages serve. Thus far, this burden has not been met.

    One may argue that lesbians are capable of procreating via artificial insemination, so the state does have an interest in recognizing lesbian marriages, but a lesbian’s sexual relationship, committed or not, has no bearing on her ability to reproduce. Perhaps it may serve a state interest to recognize gay marriages to make it easier for gay couples to adopt. However, there is ample evidence (see, for example, David Popenoe’s Life Without Father) that children need both a male and female parent for proper development. Unfortunately, small sample sizes and other methodological problems make it impossible to draw conclusions from studies that directly examine the effects of gay parenting. However, the empirically verified common wisdom about the importance of a mother and father in a child’s development should give advocates of gay adoption pause. The differences between men and women extend beyond anatomy, so it is essential for a child to be nurtured by parents of both sexes if a child is to learn to function in a society made up of both sexes. Is it wise to have a social policy that encourages family arrangements that deny children such essentials? Gays are not necessarily bad parents, nor will they necessarily make their children gay, but they cannot provide a set of parents that includes both a male and a female.

    Some have compared the prohibition of homosexual marriage to the prohibition of interracial marriage. This analogy fails because fertility does not depend on race, making race irrelevant to the state’s interest in marriage. By contrast, homosexuality is highly relevant because it precludes procreation.

    Some argue that homosexual marriages serve a state interest because they enable gays to live in committed relationships. However, there is nothing stopping homosexuals from living in such relationships today. Advocates of gay marriage claim gay couples need marriage in order to have hospital visitation and inheritance rights, but they can easily obtain these rights by writing a living will and having each partner designate the other as trustee and heir. There is nothing stopping gay couples from signing a joint lease or owning a house jointly, as many single straight people do with roommates. The only benefits of marriage from which homosexual couples are restricted are those that are costly to the state and society.

    Some argue that the link between marriage and procreation is not as strong as it once was, and they are correct. Until recently, the primary purpose of marriage, in every society around the world, has been procreation. In the 20th century, Western societies have downplayed the procreative aspect of marriage, much to our detriment. As a result, the happiness of the parties to the marriage, rather than the good of the children or the social order, has become its primary end, with disastrous consequences. When married persons care more about themselves than their responsibilities to their children and society, they become more willing to abandon these responsibilities, leading to broken homes, a plummeting birthrate, and countless other social pathologies that have become rampant over the last 40 years. Homosexual marriage is not the cause for any of these pathologies, but it will exacerbate them, as the granting of marital benefits to a category of sexual relationships that are necessarily sterile can only widen the separation between marriage and procreation.

    The biggest danger homosexual civil marriage presents is the enshrining into law the notion that sexual love, regardless of its fecundity, is the sole criterion for marriage. If the state must recognize a marriage of two men simply because they love one another, upon what basis can it deny marital recognition to a group of two men and three women, for example, or a sterile brother and sister who claim to love each other? Homosexual activists protest that they only want all couples treated equally. But why is sexual love between two people more worthy of state sanction than love between three, or five? When the purpose of marriage is procreation, the answer is obvious. If sexual love becomes the primary purpose, the restriction of marriage to couples loses its logical basis, leading to marital chaos.

    • Phipps Mike

      “The marriage laws, therefore, ensure, albeit imperfectly, that the vast majority of couples who do get the benefits of marriage are those who bear children.”

      inapplicable, you don’t get an exemption for a child if you don’t have one, you don’t get the deductions on your income tax return for children if you don’t have one. That only leaves getting to claim exemptions for spouse, Two men are no different than a man and a woman in terms of how much they get to claim as exemptions. The entire article you posted, wreaks of the idea that marriage is only to produce children. WRONNNGGGGGG!!!! Its for a couple that loves each other so much that they want to stay committed to each other for life. Children are just a fringe benefit, not a reason, for marriage.

  • Frank

    The Lord rebuke you!

  • Child of God

    The government says they can’t put Church in government thing’s, but they sure impose on Churches to go against there beliefs to accommodate there pour decisions and judgments. That’s hypocritical. It’s like Obama is trying to get as much as he can all messed up before he’s out. We’re more messed up then we’ve ever been.

  • Gary

    “no right to same-sex marriage emanates from the Constitution.” US District Judge Juan Perez-Gimenez (October 2014)
    He is the second federal judge who understands that there is no requirement for ssm in the US Constitution. If Obama is right, why isn’t it obvious to everyone?

    • LinCA

      You said, “If Obama is right, why isn’t it obvious to everyone?

      To anyone with half a brain, and a willingness to use it, it is obvious. It’s only those that are blinded by their delusions who don’t.

      • Gary

        I have a whole brain, and a willingness to use it. And I can read and understand the English language. I have read the entire US Constitution, repeatedly, and I find no evidence that same-sex marriage is required to be legal. And if you have read the US Constitution, you will say the same thing, IF YOU ARE HONEST.

        • LinCA

          Did you flunk civics?

          SCOTUS has on more than one occasion ruled that marriage is a constitutionally protected right. While states may regulate marriage, equal protection demands that they not deny it without a valid reason. And since there are no valid reasons to deny same sex couples that right, the US constitution guarantees same sex marriage.

          It’s really not that hard.

          • Gary

            Equal protection is realized by limiting marriage to one man and one woman. The US Constitution says nothing about marriage, same-sex marriage, or homosexuality. It CLEARLY does not guarantee same sex marriage. You are lying.

          • LinCA

            You said, “Equal protection is realized by limiting marriage to one man and one woman.
            Nonsense. By excluding equally deserving same sex couples, equal protection is denied. There is no rational support for discriminating against same sex couples. Banning same sex marriage is therefor a violation of the US constitution.

            You said, “The US Constitution says nothing about marriage, same-sex marriage, or homosexuality.
            So? That doesn’t mean its protection doesn’t extend to cover it.

            You said, “It CLEARLY does not guarantee same sex marriage.
            Equal Protection and Due Cause guarantee it.

            You said, “You are lying.
            Very convincing. Did you come up with that all by yourself, or did someone have to help you?

          • Gary

            Homosexuals are free to marry under the same rules as heterosexuals. But you are not interested in the laws applying to everyone. You want homosexuality to be regarded as equal to heterosexuality. Millions of us are unwilling to do that. And we are not going to become willing simply because some corrupt judges make ssm “legal”. Anyone who can understand the words written in the US Constitution knows that it provides no grounds for legalizing ssm. If it did, it would say so. We are not going to pretend the Constitution says what it does not.

          • LinCA

            You said, “Homosexuals are free to marry under the same rules as heterosexuals.
            No, they are not (not yet everywhere, anyway).

            When was the last time marriage was anything but a union of people out of love and commitment to each other? The Supreme Court has recognized that it is. The days that it was a simple property transaction are over (in civilized areas, anyway).

            If gays can’t marry the person they love, they are not treated equally under the law.

            You said, “But you are not interested in the laws applying to everyone.
            Of course, I am. I want the laws to be equally applied to everyone. We seem to disagree on what “equal” means.

            You said, “You want homosexuality to be regarded as equal to heterosexuality.
            It is. They are both parts of normal human sexuality.

            You said, “Millions of us are unwilling to do that.
            Nobody is asking you to participate. Nobody is forcing you to engage in homosexual acts, or enter into a same sex marriage.

            You said, “And we are not going to become willing simply because some corrupt judges make ssm “legal”.
            These judges are interpreting the constitution as it applies to same sex marriage. You should read some of these rulings. Most are fairly easy to read, and they make a pretty clear case.

            You said, “Anyone who can understand the words written in the US Constitution knows that it provides no grounds for legalizing ssm.
            Most judges seem to disagree with you.

            You said, “If it did, it would say so.
            I do recommend that you read some of those rulings. Most are available on-line. They tend to be pretty comprehensive in laying out the case for the decision.

            You said, “We are not going to pretend the Constitution says what it does not.
            There is far more to constitutional law than what the constitution says.

          • Phipps Mike

            “Homosexuals are free to marry under the same rules as heterosexuals”
            not when there are bans…DUH!!!!!!

  • James Grimes

    It’s one man’s opinion; that’s all it is. Christians who hold that God’s Word is absolute, will believe otherwise. There is nothing that the Atheists can say that will change that.

    Please, don’t call yourself a Christian while defending same – sex “marriage.” There is no compromise here. In reality, it is deception.

    • LinCA

      The most telling part of your comment is where you said, “There is nothing that the Atheists can say that will change that.

      Regardless of the arguments against the position of the fervent believer, he or she will not be persuaded by any of it. It’s the textbook definition of willful ignorance.

      • James Grimes

        Geez, I’m just not interested in Atheists’ opinions. Sorry…

        • BJMoose666

          Likewise

        • LinCA

          Why? Are you afraid their arguments will puncture your delusion?

          If you still believed in the Tooth Fairy wouldn’t you like someone to cure you of such an infantile belief? If so, why wouldn’t you be cured of other silly beliefs?

  • James Grimes

    The Bible is the sole authority on what is acceptable to God and to what is SIN. Those who look to compromise what God has taught will face the consequences of their actions.

    • LinCA

      Do tell. What might those consequences be? Is your imaginary friend going to put an unforgivable curse on them?

      • James Grimes

        Want to hear a big joke? Atheists, open your mouths and say something.

        • LinCA

          What exactly makes your imaginary friend any different from any other? What fundamental difference is there between your gods and the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny?

          • The Last Trump

            Hmmm. Let’s see. Well, first of all, it’s “God.” Big “G” and only an apostrophe “s”. Now, consider the staggering repercussions of just the mere three and a half year ministry of Christ that revolutionized Western society. It is a matter of historical record that it was Christian people in Christian nations who abolished
            slavery, established laws protecting individual rights, elevated the status of women, protected the rights of children, established unprecedented worldwide humanitarian organizations like The Red Cross and The Salvation Army, and inspired some of the greatest works of art, architecture, music, and literature the world has ever seen. Not too shabby for a guy who only had a 3 year ministry in some backwater province of the Roman Empire and never even wrote a single thing. Christianity is simply unparalleled for its unprecedented impact on mankind as a driving force for good. Just ask any of the millions of people that have been set free from the destructive behaviours that enslaved them, from anger and bitterness, to alcohol and drug addiction and pornography. Another commenter from a different article recently wrote this post, “I’ve been all over the world and am educated in religious cultures and non-religious Marxist cultures. Cultures who are developed on Christian values are societies of freedom, mutual respect, and love for humanity. Societies built on Marxist and Islamic ideals are bitter, dark, and frightening places to live.” Pretty much sums it up I think. And now that we’ve rejected Christianity we will all get to experience first hand just how dark things can get. Now the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy are equally well known for…um…well…I’m going to have to get back to you on that one.

          • LinCA

            You said, “Hmmm. Let’s see. Well, first of all, it’s “God.” Big “G” and only an apostrophe “s”.
            Your god (lower case “g” as it is only one of thousands) exists only in your mind. It‘s a figment. It isn’t real. It is just as fictional as the Tooth Fairy.

            You said, “Now, consider the staggering repercussions of just the mere three and a half year ministry of Christ that revolutionized Western society.
            Mass delusion isn’t evidence of the veracity of the subject of such delusions. That your particular cult became dominant is only testament to the gullibility of the believers. The only thing that dominance proves is that people can easily be fooled into believing abject nonsense.

            The only thing you need to do is start early. All you need to do is poison the minds of children into believing in fictional characters. The Stockholm syndrome will do the rest.

            You said, “It is a matter of historical record that it was Christian people in Christian nations who abolished slavery, established laws protecting individual rights, elevated the status of women, protected the rights of children […]
            Don’t flatter yourself. It is people of a mindset like yours that were on the other side of those fights. It was christians, wielding their bibles that were defending slavery, white supremacy, subservience of women, and virtually every other ill to befall society.

            Mark my words, in 20 years or so, conservative christians will claim that it was christians who fought for marriage equality. It is only the gullible fools, like yourself, who will actually fall for such propaganda.

            The christians that fought to abolish slavery and other cancers on society, did so not because they were christians, but because the were progressives. It was the conservatives that were, and still are, fighting to preserve inequality.

            You said, “[…] established unprecedented worldwide humanitarian organizations like The Red Cross and The Salvation Army, and inspired some of the greatest works of art, architecture, music, and literature the world has ever seen.
            Again, that great things are done by christians doesn’t mean christianity is so great. People are a product of their time. They hold the beliefs they hold because they are indoctrinated into them. That they are capable of great things is testament to their greatness, not the delusion they suffer from.

            You said, “Not too shabby for a guy who only had a 3 year ministry in some backwater province of the Roman Empire and never even wrote a single thing.
            There is no credible evidence your demi-god even existed. There isn’t a single shred of evidence to suggest Jesus was a real person. There is also nothing unique about his story. Virtually everything attributed to him is also attributed to others from before his time.

            You should really look outside your little bubble.

            You said, “Christianity is simply unparalleled for its unprecedented impact on mankind as a driving force for good.
            Nope, it isn’t. Islam and other delusional beliefs have had similar effects. The net effect, though, has been very negative. The atrocities committed in name of your delusion are not offset by whatever good was done in its name.

            You said, “Just ask any of the millions of people that have been set free from the destructive behaviours that enslaved them, from anger and bitterness, to alcohol and drug addiction and pornography.
            The same, or better results can be had by meditation, yoga, or recreational activities. None of what you claim is any evidence that your imaginary friend is anything but imaginary.

            You said, “Another commenter from a different article recently wrote this post, “I’ve been all over the world and am educated in religious cultures and non-religious Marxist cultures. Cultures who are developed on Christian values are societies of freedom, mutual respect, and love for humanity. Societies built on Marxist and Islamic ideals are bitter, dark, and frightening places to live.”
            While some of that may be true, correlation doesn’t imply causation. The reason predominantly christian countries are more free is because christianity was neutered a long time ago. Splintering of the once dominant catholic church, reformation and general enlightenment cause the influence of christianity on society to wane to a point where individual freedom could flourish.

            If given the chance, conservative christians would do the exact same thing as what ISIS does in Iraq and Syria. It’s the exact same mindset that underlies their delusions. It is only because they are not in a position of absolute power that we still have the freedoms that we do.

            You said, “Pretty much sums it up I think. And now that we’ve rejected Christianity we will all get to experience first hand just how dark things can get.
            Actually, no. Once we reject the abject nonsense and cancer that is superstition, we can build a society based on reality.

            You said, “Now the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy are equally well known for…um…well…I’m going to have to get back to you on that one.
            That most people recognize some creatures as fictional and not others doesn’t make them any different. The only real difference between gods and the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy is how they are treaded by parents. If children were told that gods, just like Santa and the Tooth Fairy, aren’t real, we wouldn’t have any believers within a few generations.

            The only way your god, like all others, continues to be believed in is because those beliefs are hammered into the pliable minds of children.

          • The Last Trump

            Wow. How very sad that your hatred of Christianity has blinded you completely to historical fact. I really don’t need to debate with you the overwhelming evidence for Christianity as a driving force for good for mankind. You think delusional people came up with that all on their own, do you? Talk about delusional. Hate Christianity all you want, you simply can’t refute the facts. Good luck with that. Smarter folks than you or I have been trying and failing for a very long time. You must just be loving the assault on Christianity today and the utter godlessness of your society. Enjoy it. Truly delusion folks like yourself don’t even seem to have the wherewithal to understand the danger your in. It’s unsettling to consider that many in the Nazi party leadership were intellectuals. It’s absolutely frightening what intelligent people in a godless society will do to each other in the absence of morality. But folks like you are just chomping at the bit to find out first hand. Perhaps you haven’t seen the recent article about how our college students are advocating now for after birth abortions. Up to the age of 4 years old! Your free society of modern thinkers came up with that. The cold blooded slaughter of children. We just keep getting sicker in our “free” society. Not surprising. Outside of the God inspired light of Christianity things turn out to be pretty dark. But that’s just another amazing coincidence according to folks like you, despite the fact that these Christians worship imaginary deities and are completely delusional. Yeah, that makes a whole lotta sense. If you’re will-fully ignorant maybe. So you go ahead and put your faith in man. See how that turns out for you. Time will tell for the both of us.

          • LinCA

            You said, “How very sad that your hatred of Christianity has blinded you completely to historical fact.
            I don’t hate christianity, I despise the cancerous effects it has on society. The atrocities committed in name of your imaginary friend justify every bit of condemnation. I’m not against people believing what they want. I’m against people like you trying to force others to conform to your delusion.

            You said, “I really don’t need to debate with you the overwhelming evidence for Christianity as a driving force for good for mankind.
            What little good is done in its name doesn’t make up for the bad.

            You said, “You think delusional people came up with that all on their own, do you? Talk about delusional.
            Cherry picking the positive while completely ignoring everything else is delusional. You are the only one in this discussion that seems to want to deny the ugly history of your religion.

            You said, “Hate Christianity all you want, you simply can’t refute the facts.
            I’m not refuting any facts. I’m simply not whitewashing history. I’m not the one who claimed that slavery was abolished because of efforts from christians while ignoring that is slavery was perpetrated, supported and justified by christians as well. Slavery was justified by using your precious bible.

            Women suffrage, civil rights, marriage equality (both racial and sex), and virtually every social progress was and is obstructed by chriatians like you. That more reasonable christians fought for a better society doesn’t mean that it was all christians, nor that christianity is somehow good. It clearly isn’t. It’s good people, that happen to be christians, that do good.

            You said, “Smarter folks than you or I have been trying and failing for a very long time.
            Here’s a fun fact for you. Rates of atheism are strongly correlated to both intelligence and education. The smarter, or better educated someone is, the higher the likelihood they don’t believe in gods. Of course, it is also true that rates of religiosity is strongly correlated to low intelligence and low education levels.

            You said, “You must just be loving the assault on Christianity today and the utter godlessness of your society.
            Persecution complex much? You are free to cling to your Bronze Age superstitions. You simply don’t get to force that nonsense on the rest. If you keep your delusions to yourself, you won’t hear from me.

            You said, “It’s unsettling to consider that many in the Nazi party leadership were intellectuals.
            And they were christians. Again, whitewashing history doesn’t support your case.

            You said, “It’s absolutely frightening what intelligent people in a godless society will do to each other in the absence of morality.
            Morality based on Bronze Age societal norms is what is frightening. Only when, as a society, we shed those delusional beliefs will we have a truly moral society. As long as religion is used to harm others it isn’t moral. Worse, it’s evil.

            If you want to see how moral a religious society is, if left unchecked, look no further than what ISIS is doing.

            You said, “But folks like you are just chomping at the bit to find out first hand.
            Actually, I prefer to shape society on fact and reason, instead of on fairy tales.

            You said, “Perhaps you haven’t seen the recent article about how our college students are advocating now for after birth abortions. Up to the age of 4 years old!
            I hadn’t seen it, but a search yielded what appears to be a testament to gullibility of right-wingers. It appears to have started with a philosophical discussion and spun out of control by dimwits and those with an agenda.

            It sounds like you’ve been in the echo chamber for a little too long. If you have a link to a study about what “students are advocating for”, I’d like to see it.

            You said, “Your free society of modern thinkers came up with that.
            Through discussion of ideas we weed out the bad ones. By not discussing them you get religion.

            You said, “Outside of the God inspired light of Christianity things turn out to be pretty dark.
            The sky isn’t falling. If you were able to shed your silly beliefs you’d be able to see that.

            You said, “But that’s just another amazing coincidence according to folks like you, despite the fact that these Christians worship imaginary deities and are completely delusional.
            The correlation that you perceive isn’t there. You are being kept in the dark by those with an agenda. You are a sheep to be fleeced.

            You said, “So you go ahead and put your faith in man.
            You probably won’t acknowledge it but you have put your faith in man as well. The difference is that you trust Bronze Age goat herders while I recognize that we have a far better chance of improving society by using 21st century knowledge.

            You said, “See how that turns out for you. Time will tell for the both of us.
            We actually already know what trusting Bronze Age goat herders will do for society. All you need to do is look at virtually every backward country in the world. Looking at the most equal and prosperous countries will show a glimpse of what 21st century knowledge will provide.

          • The Last Trump

            Only a complete fool would take a look outside and call what they see “progress”. Your scarred, one sided view of Christianity completely blinds you to the truth. Nothing I can say will ever change that. You know what you need to do if you really want to know for sure. Have you asked yourself just why it is you can’t seem to get yourself to do it? Rather argue about God endlessly with us dimwits over every article that comes out, than take your case directly to the source? Not surprising. Lots of people would rather not know for sure. Because then they would have to change everything. Easier to just keep arguing. Well, you go ahead and keep at it then. Just not with me. I think we’ve exhausted our conversation, yes? I’ll be getting back to reminding folks that there is still hope in these dark, I mean “progressive” times. And you can get back to promoting just how wonderful the world is post Christianity. Folks can make up their own minds based on what they see. Good luck and God bless.

          • LinCA

            You wrote, “Only a complete fool would take a look outside and call what they see “progress”.
            Anything in particular that has you scared of the real world? You keep claiming that the sky is falling but you offer no specifics, nor have you shown a causal relationship with declining belief in your brand of superstition.

            You wrote, “Your scarred, one sided view of Christianity completely blinds you to the truth.
            What truth? The truth of christian oppression of minorities? The truth of christian oppression of women? The truth of christian resistance against equality? The truth of christian denial of science? The truth of christian oppression of minorities? The truth of christianity’s violent history?

            I’m pretty sure that I have a comprehensive picture of the nasty side of your delusional beliefs.

            Whatever good is done in its name isn’t unique to it, nor does it offset the bad.

            You wrote, “Nothing I can say will ever change that.
            Since I’m not the one trying to whitewash history, it clearly isn’t me who is blinded.

            You wrote, “You know what you need to do if you really want to know for sure.
            I’ve looked at every bit of “evidence”, and I’ve explored every argument made for your god. I have evaluated its case and found it completely void of any substance. The entire case for your god boils down to having faith. There is no rational argument for it.

            I’ve evaluated the case presented by your side. maybe you should return the favor. Now, if you were to actually open your mind and allow for the possibility that I am right, you might see that your god is really no different than the Tooth Fairy.

            You wrote, “Have you asked yourself just why it is you can’t seem to get yourself to do it? Rather argue about God endlessly with us dimwits over every article that comes out, than take your case directly to the source?
            You still don’t get it, do you? Your god is not real. It doesn’t exist. There is nothing to be gained by pretending it exists.

            You wrote, “Lots of people would rather not know for sure.
            I know for sure. There isn’t a shred of doubt in my mind. Your god is fictional, and a belief in it is irrational.

            You wrote, “Because then they would have to change everything. Easier to just keep arguing.
            I’m arguing to help those that still cling to unhealthy delusions. The world without imaginary creatures isn’t as bad as you seem to believe it is. Whatever is bad about it, is in large part the doing of those that still cling to such infantile beliefs.

            You wrote, “Well, you go ahead and keep at it then. Just not with me. I think we’ve exhausted our conversation, yes?
            Running away? Can’t formulate a rational argument for your imaginary friend?

            You wrote, “I’ll be getting back to reminding folks that there is still hope in these dark, I mean “progressive” times.
            Again, your view is colored by your delusion.

            You wrote, “And you can get back to promoting just how wonderful the world is post Christianity.
            Post superstition. Your delusion is but one of many that should be chucked.

            You wrote, “Folks can make up their own minds based on what they see.
            Clearly most don’t have the ability to come to a rational decision, but providing them with facts instead of fairy tale nonsense might help.

          • The Last Trump

            Ha! Yes, I’m running away! 🙂 You’re far too clever for me! Did you think I was going to prove the existence of God to you? Hardly! God doesn’t need my help to convince anybody. You believe what you wish. I’ll stick with my “delusion”. (Based on 20 years of extensive scientific research. What a fantastic journey!) Seriously though, I think we should see other people. 😉 We’re both just wasting our time on each other. I’m certainly not going to renounce the God who has blessed me all of these years. You thinking about converting? Exactly. I’m sure we’ll encounter one another again in a future article. I do appreciate your comments. It’s always healthy to hear opposing viewpoints and encourage debate. Particularly when those involved are actually open to conceding points of fact in the interests of discovering truth. I know from where you’re sitting I must look like some uneducated, simpleton who blindly believes in some silly superstition because it was handed down to me by my momma and papa. I can only assure you that this is not the case. I wish I could convey 20 years of research and a daily personal relationship with God in a few paragraphs on a message board. But I can’t. All I can tell you is that in my case, I needed proof. And when I actually started to look, to my surprise the evidence was overwhelming. And after inviting Him into my life, all doubts were gone. Period. Has nothing to do with faith. Had everything to do with hard evidence and real repentance. And it changed my life forever, and for the better. That’s not faith. That’s cause and effect. He’s proved Himself to me a thousand times over. That’s no longer even an issue in my life. I worry more now about proving myself to Him, rather than the other way around. But I get it. I know how crazy it all seems from the outside looking in. I used to see it from your position too. Funny how we can rationalize spending so much time and energy fighting against something we’re convinced doesn’t even exist. Anyway, good luck with your own search for truth and I’m sure I’ll see you in the comments!

          • LinCA

            You said, “Yes, I’m running away!
            You’re not doing a very good job at that.

            You said, “You’re far too clever for me!
            Of course, that should be obvious by now.

            You said, “Did you think I was going to prove the existence of God to you? Hardly!
            You would if you could. Look back at your earlier posts and you’ll see that you tried.

            You won’t prove the existence of your god to me, not because you don’t want to, but because you can’t.

            You said, “God doesn’t need my help to convince anybody.
            Of course it doesn’t. To those that already believe it exists, no evidence is required, and to those that don’t no evidence is available.

            You said, “I’ll stick with my “delusion”.
            Unsurprisingly. Willful ignorance is the backbone of every religion. In an age where it takes mere seconds to get independent information, it requires effort to stick with the nonsense that a religious organization provides.

            You said, “Seriously though, I think we should see other people. 😉 We’re both just wasting our time on each other.
            Don’t let me stop you.

            You said, “I’m certainly not going to renounce the God who has blessed me all of these years.
            Of course not. I’m sure that letting go of Santa wasn’t easy, and that was a relationship of only a few years. Decades of indoctrination takes a toll.

            You said, “You thinking about converting?
            Unlike you, if provided with evidence, I would.

            You said, “All I can tell you is that in my case, I needed proof. And when I actually started to look, to my surprise the evidence was overwhelming.
            If the evidence was so overwhelming, why is it so utterly unconvincing to others? Why is it that such “evidence” only seems to convince those that don’t need convincing?

            What piece of evidence was the tipping point? What was it that pushed you from a non-believer (if you didn’t get your beliefs from your parents) into the believer camp?

            You said, “Has nothing to do with faith. Had everything to do with hard evidence and real repentance.
            How does repentance fit in here? Repentance requires acceptance of the lore. Repentance already requires belief. How can repentance lead to belief?

            You said, “And it changed my life forever, and for the better. That’s not faith. That’s cause and effect.
            Emotional bonds have a strong effect on people’s well-being. It matters little if that bond is with real or fictional beings.

            You said, “I used to see it from your position too.
            I sincerely doubt that.

            You said, “Funny how we can rationalize spending so much time and energy fighting against something we’re convinced doesn’t even exist.
            As I’ve said before, I don’t particular;y care what people believe. I can’t stop people from believing astrology holds some truths. I can’t stop people from avoiding black cats and ladders. I can point out that such behaviors aren’t rational, but I won’t bother unless I perceive the behavior as dangerous to others.

            You said, “Anyway, good luck with your own search for truth and I’m sure I’ll see you in the comments!
            Are you leaving for real now?

          • The Last Trump

            Wow. You’re like that girlfriend you just can’t break up with. Don’t take “goodbyes” well? I keep trying to be civil and move along but you just won’t have it for some reason. You said I’m not very good at running away. And you’re right. I tackle things head on and test everything and listen to both sides of every issue, like I did with Christianity. You should give that a try sometime. Maybe have a read again of my earlier posts yourself, this time paying attention instead of looking for points to attack and merely argue about like a typical hater. Perhaps then you will remember that I clearly explained to you that it wasn’t my job to convince you of anything. That’s not how it works. God takes care of the convincing. Easter Bunnies and Tooth Fairies, go ahead and give them a try. And thank you for your definition of will-full ignorance. If anybody would know about will-full ignorance inside and out I must concede it would be you. Evidence utterly unconvincing to others? You been under a rock your entire life? Hundreds of millions of Christians world-wide. But according to your simpleton view, in every case Christianity resulted from indoctrination. What piece of evidence was the tipping point you ask? Already told you, twice. Seriously dude. If you’re going to have a conversation with someone it’s only polite to hear out the other side. Otherwise you’re just wasting people’s time. Hoe did repentance factor in? Told you, after looking at the evidence, took the chance and humbled myself before God, apologized for the sin in my life and asked Him into my life. When God enters into your life there is no higher evidence for His existence. The search is over. And your insistence that I could never have seen things from where you’re sitting is just rude. Why would you even doubt that? Your little view of how Christianity has to work insists that all are indoctrinated from birth. Just sad. And no basis in reality. So yes, I’m leaving for real now. I’ve tried twice already but you just won’t have it! You asked me six questions after my last attempt. You’re like that person on the phone that you just can’t get to hang up no matter how many times you politely try. Again, good luck and goodbye. I promise not to respond if you feel it necessary once again to comment and inquire. I know it’s important for some types to have the last word. It’s all yours. Knock yourself out.

          • LinCA

            You wrote, “Wow. You’re like that girlfriend you just can’t break up with. Don’t take “goodbyes” well?
            You were the one that keeps saying that you’re done with this conversation, yet keep coming back. I’m not forcing you to reply.

            You wrote, “I keep trying to be civil and move along but you just won’t have it for some reason.
            You are free to ignore my replies.

            You wrote, “You said I’m not very good at running away. And you’re right. I tackle things head on and test everything and listen to both sides of every issue, like I did with Christianity.
            Your continued replies after indicating that you won’t shows a compulsion to address the issues. Your “answer” show a lack of ability to effectively do so.

            You wrote, “You should give that a try sometime.
            I do listen to both sides. It’s just that one side (yours) doesn’t have a rational case.

            You wrote, “Maybe have a read again of my earlier posts yourself, this time paying attention instead of looking for points to attack and merely argue about like a typical hater.
            You’ve made no rational points. You’ve made unsubstantiated claims about your imaginary friend and your book of folklore.

            You wrote, “Perhaps then you will remember that I clearly explained to you that it wasn’t my job to convince you of anything.
            You’re just deflecting. I’m guessing that you realized that whatever you believe, you believe on faith, without a shred of solid evidence.You probably realize that what you consider “evidence” wouldn’t convince anyone.

            You wrote, “That’s not how it works. God takes care of the convincing.
            Of course. You have to believe to believe. It’s a vicious circle.

            You wrote, “Easter Bunnies and Tooth Fairies, go ahead and give them a try.
            They work in the exact same way, but unless you are willing to give them a try you’ll never be convinced. Unless you already believe in them, you never will.

            You wrote, “And thank you for your definition of will-full ignorance. If anybody would know about will-full ignorance inside and out I must concede it would be you. Evidence utterly unconvincing to others? You been under a rock your entire life? Hundreds of millions of Christians world-wide.
            Did you flunk out of elementary school?

            All those millions of christians already are believers. they have been indoctrinated by their parents into believing in their imaginary friend. Of course they accept whatever you believe to be evidence as evidence of their delusion. If they didn’t, they’d shed their infantile beliefs in a heart beat.

            Unless your “evidence” can convince non-believers, it probably isn’t evidence.

            You wrote, “But according to your simpleton view, in every case Christianity resulted from indoctrination.
            All you need to do is look at how religion spreads. The single most dominant factor in determination of a child’s religion, is the religion of its parents.

            Here’s a thought experiment for you. Imagine the following. A young couple of recent immigrants has a baby. They are catholic and take their newborn to the local parish for baptism. The following week they take road trip and both parents die in a horrific accident but their child survives. No next of kin can be located and the child enters the foster system. The first foster parents decide to adopt the child.

            Answer me this: Once the child reaches adulthood, what is her religion?

            Also, how else does religion get such a strong geographical ties, if it isn’t passed from one person to the next? If there was some universal truth to it, it would be universal. If christianity didn’t rely on being passed on like a virus, there wouldn’t be over 40,000 different denominations, sects and cults of it.

            You wrote, “What piece of evidence was the tipping point you ask? Already told you, twice. Seriously dude. If you’re going to have a conversation with someone it’s only polite to hear out the other side. Otherwise you’re just wasting people’s time.
            All you’ve said is that you fell for the nonsense of your fairy tale. Does that mean you also believe Superman is real? Harry Potter?

            You wrote, “How did repentance factor in? Told you, after looking at the evidence, took the chance and humbled myself before God, apologized for the sin in my life and asked Him into my life.
            So, it only reinforced your belief in your imaginary friend. Have you sincerely done the same for the Tooth Fairy? I’m guessing you have not because you don’t already believe in her.

            You wrote, “When God enters into your life there is no higher evidence for His existence. The search is over. And your insistence that I could never have seen things from where you’re sitting is just rude.
            How do you distinguish your condition from schizophrenia? What make your imaginary friends any different from those of the people confined to institutions?

            You wrote, “Why would you even doubt that?
            I don’t doubt that you’ve experienced such delusions. I see no reason to think they are anything but delusions.

            You wrote, “Your little view of how Christianity has to work insists that all are indoctrinated from birth. Just sad. And no basis in reality.
            Have you honestly worked through the thought experiment above?

            Do you have kids? Do you teach them about your god and your religion? Do you pray with them? Do you take them to your place of worship? Do you put them in bible class? Do you enroll them in schools affiliated with you religion?

            What effect do you think 20 years of immersion into one specific religion has on the brain of a child?

            You wrote, “So yes, I’m leaving for real now. I’ve tried twice already but you just won’t have it!
            Again, you claim that you are leaving. I haven’t said I would. Do you really expect me to stop replying just because you want to stop conversing? Really?

            You wrote, “You asked me six questions after my last attempt. You’re like that person on the phone that you just can’t get to hang up no matter how many times you politely try.
            Again, I’m not forcing you to reply.

            You wrote, “Again, good luck and goodbye. I promise not to respond if you feel it necessary once again to comment and inquire.
            Will you at least answer the questions to yourself? Honestly?

            You wrote, “I know it’s important for some types to have the last word. It’s all yours. Knock yourself out.
            It has nothing to do with having the last word. Your inane ramblings keep bringing up questions (that you seem afraid to answer). All you do is deflect and run away (try to, anyway).

            It appears that you’ll go to almost any length to maintain your blissful ignorance. Have fun with it. I just hope that your children can survive your indoctrination.

    • Phipps Mike

      tolerance, no, forgiveness, yes. Dont be a false prophet, James. You twist things.

  • BJMoose666

    This is such wonderful encouraging news. God bless our beloved president.

  • http://www.zionstation.com Keshet Israel

    Not only does No Gay (Christian) exist, but No Gay has authority from God to marry, any government that gives that authority to them proves to be an enemy of Christ Jesus! -<

    • EastOldWest

      So if the government proves to be an enemy of Jesus Christ, what do think should be done?

  • Bill Tree

    Obama is a fool according to the Bible and he will have his day in hell with the queers and judges who have gone against the Word of God. If you go against God you lose the battler and your end is at hand which will be a place in hell forever.

  • Bill Tree

    All atheists are fools according to the Bible they can’t tell the truth from a lie and they can’t comprehend the light from above or understand it.

  • Bill Tree

    Christian News Network if you do not allow people to speak the truth then why do you have this web page? I notice that you delete some of my comments. I say again that Obama is a fool according to the Bible and if you go against the Word of God you will lose the battler and enter hell forever.

  • Bill Tree

    You call yourself a Christian News Network and you delete my comments. I call you a bunch of cowards not a true Christian who will stand up for the truth. I consider you no better than the coward Obama and all the queers that He support. I know you’ll delete this comment because you don’t have any backbone to stand behind the truth.

  • Opus35

    I just wanted to say I am sorry. I give some information and it was worry. I did think at the time I was right, but I have since found out it was not. I said that there were only 19 more states to go for same-sex marriage, that was wrong. It’s 18, not 19. I hope you can forgive my mistake.
    http://gaymarriage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004857

    • LinCA

      They are dropping like flies. Are you sure it wasn’t correct at the time of posting?

      • Opus35

        I just saw this site today, but that was 3hr’s ago. So anything could have changed. ;7) Peace.

    • The Last Trump

      Funny guy! Love the “sincere” apology! (We do need to laugh to stop from killing each other on these sites! 😉

      • Opus35

        Thank you for the kind words, and the fact you could see the humor in my comment. Peace.

  • Gary

    How can the government force people to accept fake marriages as being the same as real marriages? Legalizing the fake marriages will not do it. Claiming the US Constitution requires the fake marriages to be legal won’t do it. All that does is prove the government is willing to lie about the Constitution, which makes people lose respect for the government.

  • http://aaglaas.blogspot.com/ aaglaas

    As to the argument that marriage must only be for procreation or that gay marriage bans assist in procreation, it’s been shredded over and over for the ridiculous claim it is. Gay people marrying gay people do not stop heterosexuals from marrying or procreating. Here’s just ‘one’ out of many multiple similar court rulings striking down a gay marriage ban:

    “These arguments (from supporters of gay marriage bans) are not those of serious people. Though it seems almost unnecessary to explain, here are the reasons why.”

    “Even assuming the state has a legitimate interest in promoting procreation, the court fails to see, and defendant never explains, how the exclusion of same-sex couples from marriage has any effect whatsoever on procreation among heterosexual spouses. Excluding same-sex couples from marriage does not change the number of heterosexual couples who choose to get married, the number who choose to have children, or the number of children they have.”

    “The state’s attempts to connect the exclusion of same-sex couples from marriage to its interest in economic stability and in ‘ensuring humanity’s continued existence’ are at best illogical and even bewildering … The court can think of no other conceivable
    legitimate reason for Kentucky’s laws excluding same-sex couples from marriage.”

    “[A]s this Court has respectfully explained, in America even sincere and long-held religious views do not trump the constitutional rights of those who happen to have been out-voted.”

  • Robby Clewley

    More Obama bashing from the “Christians”. To be a Christian is to treat people with respect not bash them and tell them they are going to hell. I am so happy we have a president that supports LGBT people rights and wants to uphold the constitution. BEST prez ever and YES, 50 states here we come ~!

  • terri monroe

    His “long standing opinion” has always been for the queers. He just lied about it like everything else. He’s a queer and he has been nothing but a complete fraud!

  • flora
  • Neb Selim

    It sickens me to the center of my bowels to read so many posts that totally ignore the written and oral history of this nation and it’s creation. Fact is this nation WAS founded on Christian principles. Any one disputing that simple and basic fact of this nations history has never read and studied The Constitution, The Federalist Papers, nor the biographies of the Founding Fathers and those denying the Christian origins of the U.S. are either a Communist, an atheist, or a simple minded village idiot like Barack Obama! I see far too many of the latter posting here!

  • Neb Selim

    SO THE USA HAD NO CHRISTIAN ORIGINS?

    {{{{{{BUSTED}}}}}
    DENY THIS:

    The Preambles of all 50 States Of The United States

    Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama, invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution.

    Alaska 1956, Preamble. We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land.

    Arizona 1911, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution…

    Arkansas 1874, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government…

    California 1879, Preamble. We, the People of the Stat e of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom.

    Colorado 1876, Preamble. We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe.

    Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy.

    Delaware 1897, Preamble. Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences.

    Florida 1885, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, establish this Constitution…

    Georgia 1777, Preamble. We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution…

    Hawaii 1959, Preamble. We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine Guidance .. Establish this Constitution.

    Idaho 1889, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings.

    Illinois 1870, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.

    Indiana 1851, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose our form of government.

    Iowa 1857, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings establish this Constitution.

    Kansas 1859, Preamble. We, the people o f Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution.

    Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth are grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties…

    Louisiana 1921, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy.

    Maine 1820, Preamble. We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity .. And imploring His aid and direction.

    Maryland 1776, Preamble. We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty…

    Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. We…the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe … In the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His direction …

    Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom establish this Constitution.

    Minnesota, 1857, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings:

    Mississippi 1890, Preamble. We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.

    Missouri 1845, Preamble. We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness … Establish this Constitution.

    Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution ..

    Nebraska 1875, Preamble. We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom .. Establish this Constitution.

    Nevada 1864, Preamble. We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom establish this Constitution …

    New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience.

    New Jersey 1844, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permtted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.

    New Mexico 1911, Preamble. We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty

    New York 1846, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.

    North Carolina 1868, Preamble. We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those

    North Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain…

    Ohio 1852, Preamble. We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common

    Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty … establish this .

    Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences..

    Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble. We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance

    Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing

    South Carolina, 1778, Preamble. We, the people of he State of South Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

    South Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties .

    Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience..

    Texas 1845, Preamble. We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.

    Utah 1896, Preamble. Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution..

    Vermont 1777, Preamble. Whereas all government ought to enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ..

    Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI … Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator .can be directed only by Reason .and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other .

    Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution

    West Virginia 1872, Preamble. Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God …

    Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility

    Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties .. establish this Constitution.

  • gregkliebigsr

    I am a servant of the MOST HIGH GOD and YAHWEH IS HIS NAME , THESE ARE HIS WORDS, DO NOT ARGUE WITH ME, TALK TO HIM ABOUT THIS!! REPENT OF YOUR HOMOSEXUALITY! FOR THE BLOOD OF YESHUA (JESUS) WILL DELIVER YOU OUT OF ALL YOUR SIN!

    “Thou shalt NOT lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination!” says the LORD GOD.

    LEVITICUS18: 22. SO, LET ME MAKE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR , HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION!!!

    The sin of homosexuality is a forgivable sin, but a person must confess and repent of their sin to the LORD JESUS; I John 1:8-9

    —————-

    HOMOSEXUALTY ROBS GOD OF NEW HUMANS TO LOVE AND FELLOWSHIP WITH AND DWELL IN! THAT, IS WHY YAHWEH (GOD) HATES HOMOSEXUALTY! IT IS A demon spirit from satan and he does not want more CHRISTIANS BORN FOR GOD TO INHABIT!

    —————-

    Deuteronomy 23:17. There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a Sodomite of the sons of Israel.

    18. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a DOG , into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the Lord thy God.

    NOW, the term dog here means male prostitute: AND , YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE WHY GOD WOULD CALL THEM DOGS!!!

    NOW, LET US SEE WHAT THE LORD JESUS SAID ON THE SUBJECT:

    Revelation 22: 15. For without are DOGS, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    NOW, SO AS NOT TO LEAVE OUT :

    ROMANS CHAPTER 1: 16 – 32

    WELL JUST READ IT FOR YOURSELF!!!

    ROMANS CHAPTER 1: 16 – 32

    WELL JUST READ IT FOR YOURSELF!!!

    Deuteronomy 23:17. There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a Sodomite of the sons of Israel.

    18. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a DOG , into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the Lord thy God.

    NOW, the term dog here means male prostitute: AND , YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE WHY GOD WOULD CALL THEM DOGS!!!

    NOW, LET US SEE WHAT THE LORD JESUS SAID ON THE SUBJECT:

    Revelation 22: 15. For without are DOGS, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    NOW, SO AS NOT TO LEAVE OUT :

    ROMANS CHAPTER 1: 16 – 32

    WELL JUST READ IT FOR YOURSELF!!!

    ROMANS CHAPTER 1: 16 – 32

    WELL JUST READ IT FOR YOURSELF!!!

    THIS IS NOT MY PERSONAL OPINION; THIS IS THE COMMISSION THAT OUR CREATOR GOD (YAHWEH) HAS PUT ON ME TO DO, TO WARN HUMANITY !!

    THIS IS NOT MY PERSONAL OPINION; THIS IS THE COMMISSION THAT OUR CREATOR GOD (YAHWEH) HAS PUT ON ME TO DO, TO WARN HUMANITY !!

  • gregkliebigsr

    2 Corinthians 7:10. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

    REPENT!! THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW JESUS WILL NOT GO TO BE WITH HIM WHEN HE COMES SOON! THE FRUIT IN YOUR LIFE IS PROOF OF YOUR ETERNAL DESTINATION!!

    YOU ARE A HOMOSEXUAL, BECAUSE YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY TO HELL,

    YOU COMMIT ABORTION, BECAUSE YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY TO HELL,

    YOU ARE A DRUG ADDICT, BECAUSE YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY TO HELL!!! YOU FOLLOW THE DICTATES OF YOUR OWN FLESHLY DESIRES!

    THE FRUITS OF UNBELIEF AND REBELLION TOWARDS JESUS IS FOR

    ALL TO SEE, SO, REPENT AND BE SAVED!!

  • fred27256

    I thought from the beginning of this debate that as soon as one state passed same sex marriage, it was over and not because of the equal protection clause, but because of Article 4 section 1:

    Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

  • Kevin Heffernan

    We will see same-sex marriage legal in all fifty states before the next Presidential election. Support for same-sex marriage is much higher than was support for interracial marriage at the time of the Loving decision in 1967. It’s not a big deal anymore — people will be able to get married, families will be strengthened, and in another ten years people will scratch their heads and wonder what all the fuss was about in the first place.