Wiccan Priest Opens Alabama City Council Meeting With Invocation to ‘Gentle Goddess, Loving God’

Wicca Credit Singing GandolfHUNTSVILLE, Ala. — A Wiccan priest opened an Alabama city council meeting with an invocation to the ‘gentle goddess and loving god’ this past week in an effort to make the prayers that open each session more diverse, appeasing church-state separation groups.

“O gentle goddess and loving god, we thank you for the beauties and the wonders of the day that you have given to us, and for the opportunity we have this evening to assemble here and work together to make Huntsville a better city for all of its residents,” Blake Kirk led those in attendance at the Huntsville City Council meeting on Thursday.

“We ask that you grant to the councilors and other officials present here tonight the wisdom they will need to make the best decisions that they may for the governance of our city,” he continued. “And further, we ask that you visit upon these chambers a spirit of peace and comity, so that all who need to speak before the council this evening may do so in an atmosphere of courtesy and respect, without needless anger or hostility.”

The majority of prayers being offered at Huntsville’s meetings have been Christian as the area is largely populated by Christian churches. However, in 2012, the Madison,Wisconsin-based Freedom from Religion Foundation threatened to file suit over the prayers predominantly in Jesus’ name, and further contended that the practice of any kind of prayer at city council meetings was “unnecessary, inappropriate and divisive.”

“Council members are free to pray privately or to worship on their own time in their own way. They do not need to worship on taxpayers’ time,” a letter from the organization asserted.

In a compromise on the matter, Huntsville officials decided to open up the invocations to other religions in order to be more diverse in its presentation. In September, atheist Kelly McCauley of the North Alabama Freethought Association spoke during the meeting, referencing the virtues that had been lauded by those of the days of old.

“When the ancients considered the values that were proper and necessary for the good governance of a peaceful productive society, they brought to our minds the virtues of wisdom, courage, justice and moderation,” he said. “These values have stood the test of time.”

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However, this past June, area residents were outraged when they learned that the city had agreed to allow a “Priest of the Oak, Ash and Thorn tradition of Wicca” to pray at an upcoming meeting. Officials then rescinded the invitation, citing concerns from the community.

“I gave the invocation earlier this year. At the time they did not ask me what my faith affiliation was, but when they did this time and I told them ‘Wiccan,’ I was told I was no longer invited to give it,” Kirk told television station WHNT.

But the city said that it didn’t completely ban the Wiccan priest, but rather wanted to lie low until the controversy had subsided.

“We decided to pull back, to do some education maybe, and to introduce him more gently at another time,” said Huntsville City Attorney Peter Joffrion.

That time was this past Thursday. Some remain opposed to the idea.

“The Christian Church is a part of the fabric of the Huntsville community. There is one on every corner. Wicca not so much,” wrote one commenter. “The devil is laughing.”

Photo: Singing Gandolf


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  • Chrissy Vee

    I would have swiftly left that meeting as they were invoking demons. Yikes!

    • Neiman

      Exactly right! Every council member and everyone present that even remotely confesses a Christian faith should have walked out until this prayer to the Devil was over, showing their rejection of this politically correct, unconstitutional nonsense. Having only Christian prayers has NOTHING with establishing a federal, state or even local community religion, it is only reflective of the faith of the majority of the people and should atheists and secular humanists (which are now officially religions) or other religions object, they too can walk out until it is over.

      • Bolvon72

        Right there in the midst of the expected gibberish you go and hit the nail on the head–unconstitutional. Yes, indeed, that prayer was unconstitutional, like all prayers at a government meeting. Well done in finally understanding the facts.

        • Neiman

          Why must all of you Christ hating liberals and Libertarians lie? Is it a compulsion or is that your father the Devil is a Liar and the father of all lies and liars? I never said nor even hinted that prayer was unconstitutional, you know I did not, but you could not stop yourself from lying.

          If you had any intelligence and knowledge of our nation’s founding, you would know that from the Constitutional Convention to the Inauguration of Washington to the opening of every session of Congress and most official governmental events until 1962, they were all opened with prayer and only Christian prayer. So, if you are right, then our Founding Father’s, the people that created our Constitution and who lead our nation for almost 200 years were acting unconstitutional in all of this, including their buying Christian bibles for our public schools and inscribing Christian Scripture on most of our public buildings and monuments.

          If you want to change history and keep lying, I cannot stop you; but prayer is NOT unconstitutional, it is stopping such prayers that is unconstitutional.

          • Phipps Mike

            “most official governmental events until 1962, they were all opened with prayer and only Christian prayer. ”
            but WHY is it necessary? Its NOT.

          • Neiman

            The point is, that is what history records and that shows that they did not intend by the First Amendment to exclude the role of the Christian faith in the affairs of this nation, they were not hostile to people of the Christian faith influencing our laws or adverse to them preferring Christians as their elected leaders; which is wholly contrary to revisionist liberal history which now makes any mention of Jesus into an establishment of religion.

            It is necessary if we want God’s blessings on our land, if we honor Him, as we did from the Pilgrims until 1962, He made us into the greatest economic and military power on earth, far above any other nation in human history. It is also necessary because since by virtue of liberal influences we kicked Him out of the Public Square and made Him persona non grata in all our affairs, our nation has fallen into moral dissipation, we are no longer the most powerful nation on earth and we are falling into the abyss towards 3rd world status.

          • Phipps Mike

            ” we are no longer the most powerful nation on earth”
            our economy has a LOT to do with that. When MOST all of our factory jobs were outsourced, it took money OUT of US distribution. Tell the greedy CEO’s to bring our jobs back onto US soil and we will become more powerful again.

          • Neiman

            No, it because America turned its back on God and absent national repentance, we will not recover.

          • Phipps Mike

            If you want to concede that the greed was the “turning their backs on God” then we are in agreement. The power you refer to has to be financial and military force because that is the ONLY way we are or were powerful.

          • Neiman

            Greed is sin, but I do not agree that just being a capitalist makes one greedy or in love with Mammon.

          • Phipps Mike

            Capitalism at its birth was just designed to keep people from being only two classes…rich or poor. Less peasants and more middle class was accomplished in the beginning…UNTIL the time of mass production where bosses forced people to work up to 16 hrs a day including children…etc…
            Then over the years, the CEO’S became more and more greedy. So no, Capitalism in itself is not bad, CEO greediness IS>

          • Dwayne Hinton

            Jesus told the young rich ruler to sell all, give it all to the poor, and then the man could follow him/Jesus.

            Jesus cast the money changers out of the temple… iirc, with a whip he made on the spot.

            Jesus said it’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle, than for a rich man to enter into heaven.

            ever heard of the Sermon on the Mount? it’s all about the poor folks inheriting the kingdom of heaven.

            not sure where greed and capitalism plays into Christianity, from a Christian perspective anyways.

          • Neiman

            Capitalism does not equal greed and it is not a sin. Greed is a sin, not making money, Jesus was not against business and making money, only avarice.

            You do not know the difference between poor in spirit and being poor in an economic sense, Jesus never said only poor people get into heaven. If you knew Jesus and His Word, you would read later where in the same passages He told His disciples that what was impossible with men, was possible with God and He never excluded even rich people. He only commented on how hard it was to seek Him because of the deceitfulness of money.

            Jesus drove out people NOT for exchanging money or selling anything, but because they dared to do so inside the Temple, making God part of their schemes.

          • Craig Reynolds

            “Do not take usurious interest from him, but revere your God, that your countryman may live with you.…” Leviticus 25:36

            “”If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not treat it like a business deal; charge no interest.” Exodus 22:25

            “Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns.” Deuteronomy 24:14

            So much for the pratice of capitalism.

          • Neiman

            None of those passages are anti-capitalism and certainly not pro-socialism, your preferred system of government:

            One of the major moral arguments against
            capitalism is greed, which is why many Christians feel unsure about the
            free enterprise system. Critics of capitalism contend that this system
            makes people greedy. But then we must ask whether capitalism makes
            people greedy or do we already have greedy people who use the economic
            freedom of the capitalistic system to achieve their ends? In light of
            the biblical description of human nature (Jeremiah 17:9),
            the latter seems more likely. Because people are sinful and selfish,
            some are going to use the capitalist system to satisfy their greed. But
            that is not so much a criticism of capitalism as it is a realization of
            the human condition. The goal of capitalism is not to change bad people
            but to protect us from them. Capitalism is a system in which bad people
            can do the least harm and good people have the freedom to do good works.
            Capitalism works well with completely moral individuals. But it also
            functions adequately with selfish and greedy people.

            It’s important to realize that there is a difference between
            self-interest and selfishness. All people have self-interests which can
            operate in ways that are not selfish. For example, it is in our
            self-interest to get a job and earn an income so that we can support our
            family. We can do that in ways that are not selfish. By contrast, other
            economic systems such as socialismignore the biblical definitions of
            human nature. As a result, they allow economic power to be centralized
            and concentrate power in the hands of a few greedy people
            . Those who
            complain of the influence major corporations have on our lives should
            consider the socialist alternative where a few governmental bureaucrats
            control every aspect of our lives.

            Though greed is sometimes evident in the capitalist system, we have to
            understand it’s not because of the system—it’s because greed is part of
            man’s sinful nature. The solution lies not in changing the economic
            system but in changing the heart of man through the power of the gospel
            of Jesus Christ.

            Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/capitalism-Bible.html#ixzz3Iid3H8F3

          • Phipps Mike

            “we must ask whether capitalism makes people greedy or do we already have greedy people who use the economic
            freedom of the capitalistic system to achieve their ends?” oh geesh, we AGREE on something! Yea, its a personality trait to be greedy and a lot of that stems from ones childhood.

          • Phipps Mike

            “Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, ” oh my gosh! dont show him THIS. The fact is that Republican conservatives want to take away federal minimum wage so the rich can get richer and they think that for themselves,, that they should be allowed to make as much as THEY WANNA make. he (neiman) considers me of the world for having sympathy for the poor and wanting equality..

          • Dwayne Hinton

            Because…. the founders NEVER ONCE mentioned Christ in the Constitution? Is Jesus mentioned in the declaration of independence? or, any founding document?

            Washington owned enough slaves to start a town. That’s pretty Christian, eh? Don’t we have documentation of at least one founder who slept with his slaves, in order to create more slaves?

            I don’t think “God” means what you think it means…

          • Dwayne Hinton

            the pilgrims called Christmas a pagan festival, and refused to celebrate it.

            depending on which colony you were in – if you missed ONE church service, you spent the night in the stocks, and were made a colonial slave for a week — second missed service, you were a slave for a year and a day.

            being the wrong Christian denomination got you wonderful things in a colony as being tarred & feathered, banished, jailed, even executed.

            do you wonder WHY there is no mention of Christianity in any of our founding documents? or, why Founders made treaties which stated in plain english “the United States is not a Christian nation”?

            but, feel free to do your father’s bidding, and spread lies. Mammon is pleased, I’m sure.

          • Dwayne Hinton

            you DO realize, that until the Red Scare propaganda – “God” wasn’t on money, in the pledge, in a lot of patriotic songs… yes?

            or, do you pretend that none of that happened, and support the lies?

          • Neiman

            You are committing the sin of making false accusations against me, I never spoke to that issue or took any position on it.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            He is a New A-theist, Neiman: it took me awhile to figure him out. He is a blind faith a-theistic believer that the universe miraculously popped into existence out of nothing uncaused by anything, that life magically sprang forth when lightning hit some mud, that morals and minds evolved from molecules through monkeys – that sort of thing. He sets up straw men and then takes them down and thinks he has accomplished something. (This is what the welfare, food stamp, and pot generation looks like.) He is the reason that we can’t get a spacecraft into orbit anymore: total irrationality. He is the new “turn off your mind” ‘thinker.’ God bless you – keep up the good work!

          • Neiman

            Thank you!

          • ForTheRepublic

            I must step in and stop this espousing of lies. Please see

            http://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx

            In regards to when God was introduced into our currency. 1861 was the year the idea was birthed, and signed into law in 1864.

            Do YOU pretend that this didn’t happen till the 1920s?

            God Bless,

            ~ForTheRepublic
            Deo Optimo Maximo

          • Craig Reynolds

            So military and economic power that can be exerted all over the Globe are the proof of a righteous nation? Sounds a trifle materialistic.

          • Neiman

            Do your Leftists ever feel bad when you lie? Have your hearts been so corrupted you just can’t tell anymore?

            I never called America a righteous nation – never, when you used those words you were lying about what I said and realizing you are so dishonest, I will use simple words:

            Because America, even before it became a nation, honored God in the hearts of its people and in its laws, imperfect as it was, God blessed this nation wherein it became the most economic and powerful nation in history, just as he did during the reign of Solomon. Once, because of irreligious Liberals it turned its back on God, He removed His hand of protection and stopped blessing America.

          • Phipps Mike

            Imperialism

          • Dwayne Hinton

            “christian” prayer?

            where in the constitution does it talk about christianity?

            because, the first amendment protects everyone else from being forced to put up with someone ELSE’s religion.

            forcing people to listen to ANY religion’s prayer at a secular/government meeting – is doing just that.

            or, does your father, Mammon, continue to blind you?

          • Neiman

            Well the Founding Fathers and all the leaders of this nation from the Pilgrims until 1948 had no such objections and did not find it unconstitutional or a matter of force at all.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        At the very least, they could have turned their backs on the pagan and prayed silently to the One True God. Then, the opening motion should have been to present the Wiccan with a framed certificate of recognition: the Ten Commandments. 🙂

        • Phipps Mike

          gonnnggggggg!

        • Dwayne Hinton

          you realize that the 10 commandments ARE part of the torah, yes?

          and that Jesus stated, if you follow any part of the law – you are obligated to follow the ENTIRE law, every jot and every tittle?

          and that no man is capable of doing that – so, your reward is death.

          are you even Christian??

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            You realize that Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it, yes? (Matthew 5:17) Which of the 10 Commandments is no longer in play? Do you not know that Christ’s Greatest Commandment and the Second like it cover those 10? (We can agree to disagree on the Sabbath.) Other than the Sabbath, I would like to know which of the 10 I can start breaking. 🙂
            I placed my faith in the One Who fulfilled the law, Christ Jesus, so by my reading, I am a Christian. I’m not trying to keep the law in any sense, but I am also not a cheap Grace Christian who believes that he can say he “trusts Jesus” and then not pursue holiness. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that God’s Grace does not give us license to sin at will, like so many in the “church” seem to believe.
            All that being said, I agree that a Gospel tract would be a superior idea. Is that what you are proposing? God bless you, Dwayne!

        • Craig Reynolds

          Any of you law abiders ever read Leviticus or Deuteronomy in their entirety? Enjoy yourselves following that path …

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Which one of the 10 Commandments did you want to abolish? Well, if you are an a-theist, then all of them right? After all, under a-theism, one cannot ground objective moral duties and rights. All of the great a-theists of the past knew this. But, we need look no further than the “pope” and “cardinals” of the New A-theists for confirmation: https://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2014/01/16/an-atheist-explains-the-real-consequences-of-adopting-an-atheistic-worldview/#comment-101449
            What this means, of course, is that, to be consistent with his worldview, the a-theist cannot condemn abortion (well, 97% of them don’t anyway), racial slavery or genocide, or the Jewish Holocaust under the Nazis. That is because, under naturalistic a-theism, mind and morals evolve from molecules through monkeys. Such can never be objective, because small variations in the evolutionary process necessarily would lead to different morals. Now, THERE is a downright scary path: the acts of Mother Teresa or Ghandi are no better morally than those of Stalin or Mao – in an objective sense, under a-theism! Such is the madness of the New A-theism, but the high priests of this new “religion” most certainly accept this madness to not have to be accountable to their Creator. God bless you, Craig!

          • Craig Reynolds

            Read Leviticus and Deuteronomy, then get back to me. As for “objective moral duties”, start with Plato and work your way forward.

    • raytheist

      “Invoking demons”? It was a prayer offered by someone of faith different from yours, but just as valid as your own. More importantly, judging from the actual content of prayer, it seems they were asking pretty much the same things you would ask of your own god: unity, harmony, ability to work together for the common good, etc. Anyone put off by that is probably carrying an agenda of their own.

      • wandakate

        RAYTHEIST: Prayer to Satan? Nonsense, Satan can’t answer prayers…GOD is the only one who is capable of doing that, so don’t kid yourself. People are deceived…Satan came to kill, steal, and destroy, not to answer prayers. We also can’t pray to dead saints. The two are about the same, one is as useless as the other.

        • raytheist

          Wow…. maybe you should get some education in what these other religions are about. They want the same things you do. Wiccans don’t worship Satan, anyway; Satan is a Christian problem, not a Wiccan problem.

          And you can’t genuinely have a problem with the content of this person’s actual prayer, can you? Did you read the invocation that was offered? Is there anything there that would be something you yourself wouldn’t ask for?

          • Neiman

            It does not matter what this person asked for in their prayer, it is what those words mean to them, how they define them, as they are deceivers.

            They do not want the same things as Christians and Satan is their god.

          • David C

            Please enlighten us with your understanding of his faith. What exactly does he want?

          • Karl

            You show your ignorance with every post. You approach all religions as if they were ALL false, and only really a way of looking at the world. You see prayers as merely words spoken, as if they were only wishes. The god of this world, Satan, blinds many to the truth, and there is only ONE truth. False religions don’t have to be overtly evil to be false. They only have to deny the One True God and Jesus His Son. Salvation hinges on faith in Him and Him only. We are all wicked. Every one. Not one of us are worthy of heaven on our own merits. This is the message of the world, though; that you can be generally good and see salvation. Those that believe that nonsense will not make it. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. He paid for our sins, for those who believe in Him. If you don’t know each other, then you will not be saved.

          • usmcmailman

            HORSE CRAP !

        • David C

          Earth religions have been around far far longer than Christianity. Maybe modern-day Christianity can pick up a thing or two from these faiths. As Ghandi said, “I love your Christ, I don’t like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ”

          • Gary

            There is nothing of value to be learned from “earth religions”. They are false religions who serve false gods.

          • David C

            See, that’s the whole problem. When Christians tout the words “freedom of religion” what they really mean is “freedom..as long as you are Christian”

            Don’t look now, but you sound awful lot like the Taliban.

          • Gary

            As far as I am concerned, you are free to have any religion you want. But don’t expect others to consider your religion valid and respectable when we know it isn’t.

          • David C

            Do you even see how ridiculous that is? You are free to have your own inferior religion but ours is superior. This is EXACTLY why our forefathers got religion out of politics.

          • Neiman

            They did NOT get religion out of politics, you do seriously err, they got government out of religion, until liberals changed it in 1948, but the words and actions of our Founding Fathers was not only not hostile to the Christian faith, they supported it in a myriad of ways and that as part of their official duties and their laws.

          • David C

            Taliban.. Here we come!!

          • Neiman

            What I told you was/is historical truth and what is more, you know it is the truth. But, in your liberal, atheist mindset, you draw deep out of the well of worn out Left Wing lies, the tired old and terribly false Taliban charge against Christians, knowing there is absolutely no comparison. That makes no difference to you, as you folk just keep telling lies until to all those you can deceive, like your father deceives, it becomes as if it were the truth. But, the shame is on you!

          • Phipps Mike

            ” knowing there is absolutely no comparison. ”
            no but that attitude CAN be compared to a DICTATORSHIP. All of the Protestants who were KILLED, are rolling in their graves right now at the fact that you dismiss the freedom they fought for YOU to have, to exercise YOUR protestantism. The King was dictatorship and we ESCAPED him.

          • Neiman

            No it cannot be compared to a dictatorship. With a common faith and shared moral values we Christians work to influence our laws and we prefer, as did our first Supreme Court Chief Justice, only Christians as our elected rulers.

            We Christians escaped Europe to escape persecution in being forced to be part of a national church, in the First Amendment we made sure no national church/denomination could exist to dictate to us or to anyone, but we also made sure we had full rights as citizens to participate in passing laws and choosing, by our votes, leaders that shared our values, as can any other group. We gave all religions freedom to worship God as they choose.

            There is absolutely nothing you have said above that applies to the Christian Church, it is just your anti-Christ hatred driving your false emotions.

          • Phipps Mike

            whats false is your accusation that I am anti-christ. For starters.

            a common faith doesn’t include EVERYBODY. How is what you are saying any different than a dictatorship? you are trying to suggest that just because this nation is a Christian majority, that EVERYBODY should adhere to Christian rule. That is a dictatorship that IGNORES the freedom away from: ” national church/denomination” Any FORCED religion is a dictatorship.

          • Neiman

            Your every word here betrays your spirit is the spirit of anti-Christ. You hate Christians, you oppose them, you deny them citizenship and in every way you take the side of the world against the Christian faith and that is anti-Christ.

            I never said anything like you are suggesting and what is more, you know that I am not, you are lying about my positions.

          • Phipps Mike

            you are skirting the issue. How is FORCING one religion (Christian) not the same as a dictatorship?

            Where do I say I hate Christians? I have NEVER said that EVER. I talk about them in a 3rd person point of view for ONE reason. To point out that there are CORRUPTED so called pious Christians out there and in here that think they have a right to dictate their values as the only VALID values.
            I was raised a Baptist Protestant that taught NO DICTATORSHIP and respect for others beliefs. I am currently the son in law of a 26 year Lutheran head Pastor. I am WITH Christians aside from myself daily, Now how could I withstand that much exposure to something that you profess I hate? I admire my father in law and his CALM, UNJUDGING, objective manners. He gets his point across without hatred and condescension. If everybody in here were like he is, You wouldnt see hardly A NY arguments.

          • Neiman

            Christians do not force their faith on anyone, while they have the right to try and influence our laws to best reflect their moral values.

            Your every word are against all Christians and in defense of this world system and that equals hatred of Christ and His Church.

          • Phipps Mike

            so I am against myself, my father in law and all of my family because YOU said so? Shall I bow to you in your greatness that gives you the audacity to claim yourself as the authority on who is or isn’t Christian? Where do you get off thinking you are above me?

            “have the right to try and influence our laws”

            thats not how you were talking earlier: ” they were not hostile to people of the Christian faith influencing our laws or adverse to them preferring Christians as their elected leaders”

            this would show that YOU think its ok to prefer to make ONLY CHRISTIANS as elected leaders. That would be LEGISLATING Christianity as a RULERSHIP. AKA dictatorship. You LOSE. Dont try to backpeddle now.

          • Phipps Mike

            ” in every way you take the side of the world against the Christian faith”
            if that were true, I would be greedy myself and take sides with the greedy CEOS putting my interest in worldly possessions.

          • Guest

            what are you? must NOT be Christian. You DARE say that Christianity started in the Garden of Eden? JESUS started Christianity much much later:

            http://www.evidenceforchristianity.org/how-did-christianity-first-begin-where-was-christianity-originated-fromr/

            How did Christianity first begin? Where was Christianity originated
            from? (two separate questions which came on consecutive days which I
            will answer together)

            Christianity began as a religion in Jerusalem, probably in the
            year 29 or 30 AD. The book of Acts chapter 2 describes what most
            Christians would say would be the starting point of the church and public Christianity. During the weeks after his resurrection but before the events on Pentecost as described in Acts chapter 2, Jesus discussed with his disciples in detail regarding the Kingdom of God (Acts 1:3). Jesus prophesied that he would give Peter the keys to the kingdom (Matthew
            16:19), and from what we can see in Acts 2, Peter did indeed open up the kingdom, the church of Jesus Christ on the earth, as this is the first public preaching that we know of in which salvation through Jesus by repentance and baptism was preached.

            If one takes the New Testament as accurate history, then the
            answer to your question is that Christianity began in Jerusalem as the apostles–those who had been with Jesus throughout his ministry–began to preach salvation in the name of Jesus Christ, the Messiah.”

          • Phipps Mike

            the guest above was ME, I dont know how it came across as “guest”

          • usmcmailman

            Go join them Moron !

          • David C

            John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson: “I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”

          • David C

            George Washington 1789: “If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”

          • Neiman

            While you would like to change history in your anti-Christ image and use selected quotes (I can provide a host of them wherein our Founding Father’s believed we were a union of Christian states and feared for our nation without Christ), what you cannot defend in all your quotes and the Treaty of Tripoli, is that from the Constitutional Convention onward our Founding Father’s by their prayers before the Convention and at every session of Congress and at every public meeting were opened by Christian and only Christian prayers. They bought Christian bibles for our public schools, included holy scripture on most federal buildings and monuments and in a host of ways honored the Christian faith and only the Christian faith and they were not at all suportive of any other. That is, until 1948 and that old anti-Christ FDR and his chief disciple Hugo Black turned things upside down with the lie of separation of Church and State and from then on the federal government, inspired by liberals devils, have waged open warfare against the Christian Church and only the Christian Church.

            Yes, your side, mostly Democrats, is at war with Christ and His Church, you are in fact winning; but do not expect me, knowing our nation’s historical support of the Christian Church, to swallow your lies that our Founding Father’s were against the Christian Church.

          • David C

            Yes, please play the victim here. I notice 80% of the news on this website is about the “persecution” of Christians in some form or another. So you are in good company.

          • Neiman

            You Christ hating liberals are amazing. You do persecute Christians, you are steadily criminalizing the Christian faith in America, you are at war with Christians and want to destroy us, but when we say that you are, you discount it as playing the victim card. Have the guts to admit you would prefer Christianity be made completely illegal and it would not upset you to see them all killed, because your socialist utopia and Christianity cannot coexist.

          • Martin Cataldi-Rogers

            have you ever thought that people arent liberal and that they dont hate , they may actually like or love Christ yet believe in something else , it is you who hates and curses others , pagans are republicans to , pagans are center right , maybe left leaning to , what has politics got to do with what is a religion .. it is onyl the far right politicians that have convinced the far right that other religions dont belong on the right… did you know over 20% the general of Texans are Pagan yet 75% of the vote Republican …. liberals ah ? nope

          • Craig Reynolds

            OK Neiman – provide your “host” of quotes by the Founding Fathers. Also please keep in mind that all these guys were pretty much dead and gone by 1824, so no fair ringing in Father Coughlin or Billy Graham, whichever of those gentlemen represented The One True Religion.

          • Neiman

            You may find many here, even from Jefferson who was no Christian by faith.

            http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm

            There are more here and I can provide even more

            http://www.usachristianministries.com/us-history-quotes-about-god-and-the-bible/

            I cannot recall if it was Adam’s or Madison that declared America a union of Christian colonies/states. Our First Supreme Court Justice John Jay said we should prefer Christians as our elected rulers.

          • Craig Reynolds

            OK – here’s another collection, equally well annotated –

            http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

          • Neiman

            I have never said that America was ever officially, by law, a Christian nation, but that its inhabitants and leaders were mostly Christian people and I have offered quotations that support that contention, while I also said there are contrary quotes, because that is what the First Amendment made clear. Because of the fear of the tyranny of any one Christian sect ruling the country, they made it clear there would be no official national Christian denomination, while at the same time, in virtually the same breath, they made it clear that those people having a religious faith could not be inhibited from practicing that faith in any way, shape, manner or form, forbidding any laws that would infringe on that right.. Further, their many actions and words indicated not only no hostility towards the Christian faith, but a clear preference for the Christian faith.

            It is historical revisionism to use the Treaty of Tripoli as a justification for deny those rights of expression or permitting any official hostility towards the Christian faith that you and your ilk are advocating. We were until 1962 for all intent a purposes a mostly Christian nation and our laws reflected that absolute fact. It is only when you and your godless liberal, atheist allies subverted the First Amendment that the hostility and open warfare against Christ and His Church gained dominance.

          • David C

            In Americas first treaty with another country, the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by President John Adams and unanimously ratified by the senate:

            As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims]; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

          • usmcmailman

            Or people like you out of America !

          • David C

            James Madison in 1785:”During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”

            “What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.”

          • usmcmailman

            And you smell like Satan !

          • Phipps Mike

            if you can consider “mother nature’ a God. Wicca is much like Native Americans beliefs. Nature is their God.

          • Craig Reynolds

            Kinda think maybe the fellows who hadn’t got ’round to inventing Judaism or Christianity or Hinduism or whatever but who did invent stuff like cutting tools and the wheel and methods to start fire – they did contribute something of value.

          • David C

            See, that’s the whole problem. When Christians tout the words “freedom of religion” what they really mean is “freedom..as long as you are Christian”

            Don’t look now, but you sound awful lot like the Taliban..

          • Neiman

            It is indeed unfortunate that in your Christian hatred, you cannot see the difference between peaceful opposition to our public officials embracing satanic religions versus the Taliban that terrorist, rape, and murder to force their religion on others. Your ignorance and hatred are appalling.

          • Neiman

            A. Christianity is NOT a religion, it is an intimate relationship with Christ.
            B. The root of the Christian faith, though not clear to our earliest ancestors, was in existence from Adam and predates all other beliefs systems.

          • Phipps Mike

            It IS a religion, and a lot of it is organized. Also, Christianity is one of the LAST religions to come into existence that BORROWED from OTHER Religions.

          • Neiman

            There are man-organized, multi-denominational, multi-sects churches that use the name of Christ and most often are set up as means of corporate worship of Jesus and within most there are many true Christians. But, the Christian Church is not that organization, the Church is the Body of Christ, made up of people that have turned from idols and have been converted, born again in the Spirit of Christ. This latter group is the Christian Church, it is true Christianity. The organizations in which they find fellowship and communal worship are NOT the Church, they are not Christianity. Thus, what I said remains true, they are not part of any religion, they are members of the Body of Christ and theirs is an intimate relations with Jesus nothing else.

            No, Christianity was not borrowed, not even from Judaism, even though its roots can be found there, it has existed since Adam in Spirit and no other group has any part with it or them.

          • Phipps Mike

            what are you? must NOT be Christian. You DARE say that Christianity started in the Garden of Eden? JESUS started Christianity much much later:

            http://www.evidenceforchristia

            How did Christianity first begin? Where was Christianity originated
            from? (two separate questions which came on consecutive days which I
            will answer together)

            Christianity began as a religion in Jerusalem, probably in the
            year 29 or 30 AD. The book of Acts chapter 2 describes what most
            Christians would say would be the starting point of the church and public Christianity. During the weeks after his resurrection but before the events on Pentecost as described in Acts chapter 2, Jesus discussed with his disciples in detail regarding the Kingdom of God (Acts 1:3). Jesus prophesied that he would give Peter the keys to the kingdom (Matthew
            16:19), and from what we can see in Acts 2, Peter did indeed open up the kingdom, the church of Jesus Christ on the earth, as this is the first public preaching that we know of in which salvation through Jesus by repentance and baptism was preached.

            If one takes the New Testament as accurate history, then the
            answer to your question is that Christianity began in Jerusalem as the apostles–those who had been with Jesus throughout his ministry–began to preach salvation in the name of Jesus Christ, the Messiah.”

          • wandakate

            DAVID C: My CHRIST would not accept false teachers, or false gods, or false religions. It’s irrelevant that earth religions were around before Christianity, that’s not the point. The point is that GOD and JESUS were around first and did the creating, and gave life to humans. GOD breathed the breath of life into Adam and Adam became a living “SOUL”, he was a person, a human, a being thus a soul…No Christianity or earth religions were before that.
            Ghandi had a right to his own thoughts. There is only “ONE” GOD, and one JESUS CHRIST. They may pray to whomever they please, as I can pray to my dog if I wish, but it doesn’t make my dog GOD.

          • Chrissy Vee

            I have a couple of questions… Are you an atheist…humanist… wiccan…? Also, do you believe everybody is right and there is no absolute truth? Just curious.

          • David C

            I don’t have a definition or a label what I am. I grew up in the church. Many times a week I went to church. My parents are still active members of the church. Personally, I love religion.. For other people, just not for me. I think it’s great that people can find grace and peace in whatever God, Goddess, or deity they choose.

            What I (and I do suspect others) do have a problem with is when I have to accept your religion over my own beliefs. That your beliefs are superior to mine, and that ones religious beliefs become supported by The State and become public policy.

            Thank you for asking.

          • Chrissy Vee

            Thanks for responding… I can’t say I love religion, it’s too vague and confused today. Seems to cause more chaos than calm.
            I do have to say, sometimes I see or hear Christians get a little over zealous and can become offensive and seem to look down on others. I hope and pray if I ever do that, someone will take me down a notch, as we are called to be humble…gently of course. 🙂

            I never expect (just hope) people will accept Jesus, but because I do believe Him and in Him, I, and most followers of Christ believe the Bible as the truth.
            I don’t believe everyone is right and every religion is true… Honestly, that’s an odd concept. There can only be one truth.

            Because we believe that God is our Lord and Creator and His Word is truth, what He calls evil, we call evil. What he calls sin, we call sin. Because God says unbelievers will perish, we also believe that.
            We are following His Word when we speak up and out as we are commanded to. If you REALLY believed that someone was going to Hell, wouldn’t it be neglectful on your part not to warn them?
            When God says sorcery and witchcraft are of Satan, do we not speak up when we see articles like this? It is vexing to our spirit when we see and hear stories like these because they go against who we believe is the one true God.
            The God of the Bible and His teachings were the very root and foundation of America for many years. He started slowly and surely being pushed out of every public and some private institutions and today Christ and Christianity are being bullied by the masses. God never changed. Society did and we are expected to comply. So we speak up.
            What I noticed happens a lot, is Christians are attacked for expressing their views more so than non-Christians are. Christians are not perfect and sometimes we speak offensively if our feathers get ruffled. Please forgive. Sometimes we stumble when defending our faith with passion. I find some non believers, to be downright rude and unseemly.
            I just think we need to stop when we see the conversation isn’t getting anywhere. Especially when it takes an ugly turn.
            I don’t know why, but I felt compelled to write this. haha. I guess I am trying to give you a glimpse into our perspective. Thanks again for sharing. Peace.

          • Phipps Mike

            ” There can only be one truth.”
            right and UNTIL that truth can be PROVEN, Respect needs to be issued to everybody on their own beliefs. To condemn somebody over a what-if is definitely a dictatorship type action. God WANTS us to question our faith and seek answers to questions until we CAN reach full faith. When people in here that act pious are insulting somebody in search of that faith, it is NOT conducive to healthy “witnessing”

        • Joseph James

          sure he can… what..you think fools outside of His protection due to unrepentance arent being decieved by the ruler of this earth by him answering prayers so the fool thinks he is in good witb God?

          illuminati get their worldly prayers answered often…but they have their reward

          • wandakate

            JOSEPH JAMES: Satan is the god of this world, yes, but he answers no prayers. He isn’t capable or able to do that. The illuminati may have a good life now, but it’s not this life that counts. What counts is our future (eternity), that is what last forever. This life we are now living is only short and temporary. Don’t be deceived.

          • Joseph James

            im not the one decieved thinking the adversary doesnt intercept prayers and answer them. thats a foolish thought when i see muslims hindi and many other false religions have “prayers” answered…if u notice they are mostly worldly or fleshly prayers too. If the adversary has the power to delay a response to a prayer by Him… he most certainly can give a false reward…

          • wandakate

            JOSEPH JAMES: Satan is powerful. He is deceiving and is the god of this evil world for now, but his time is short and he knows it too. Satan likes to imitate GOD. He likes to cause the times and laws to be changed so he looks important and so that people will worship and pray to him. He can deceive and is now doing so in the hearts of man. The False Prophet will come and perform miracles for the Antichrist and they will both be under the influence of satan the devil. I put no trust in anything other than the real living GOD of heaven and earth.

          • Joseph James

            ok..so you backpedal and admit satan likes to impersonate God..and claim he cant “answer” prayers.. never said he gave correct answers to prayers..afterall doesnt it say in scripture about a father giving bad gifts instead of good ones? it all depends if it was the real Father answering…or the father of lies

          • Tabitha Bingham

            How in the HE double hockey sticks would you know what other people pray about? That is one helluva assumption there Joseph. By the way, are you telling me you have never, in your entire existence, prayed to God over something affecting you on this world? You’ve never asked for help with a problem? You’ve never asked to be saved from a bad situation? Good health for your family? Food for the poor or homes for the homeless? I could list a zillion examples of GOOD prayers that you would consider “worldly”. Not sure what you meant by “fleshly” but I am just going to ASSume you have your mind in the gutter. ASSumptions are kind of stupid, aren’t they?

          • Joseph James

            Flesh isnt just sexual you ignorant troublemaker. Prayers to HEAL are fleshly desires, and if people are prayin for healing to budda krisna or the holy roly ding dong……. They are being answered by those same false gods

      • James Grimes

        ” just as valid as your own” HARDLY. This invocation was a slap in the face to everyone who made this country great.

        • raytheist

          How? Please describe EXACTLY how it was a “slap in the face”. What part of the petition made during that invocation was so troubling? And on what criteria can you rationally claim one person’s religion or spiritual path is superior or inferior to another? I genuinely do not understand how Christians can be so incredibly arrogant as to lightly dismiss someone else’s religion while demanding so much respect for their own, when their own has no greater authority or explicit authenticity than another religion. Even more so when I suspect you’ve not actually studied Wicca to know what it is or what they actually believe.

          • Gary

            Praying to any god other than the LORD, the Creator of the universe and of life is idolatry. I agree with Chrissy Vee, I would have left had I been there.

          • raytheist

            Then you’re just as closed-minded as the rest of these silly folks. If you genuinely sincerely didn’t think the Wiccan was addressing the invocation to the “right” deity, you could have still taken the CONTENT of the invocation and addressed it on your own to whatever deity you wished, and then everybody would be seeking the same thing, and the city council meeting would have flowed smoothly, which was the actual purpose of the invocation. Getting all huffy about it is just ignorant and selfish … and yet it doesn’t occur to so many Christians that non-Christians have to put up with such feelings every time a Christian prays to their god while ignoring everyone else’s opinions. Christians are generally arrogant and selfish in their pretense that only their religion is the right one.

          • Gary

            Christianity is the only true religion. All others are false. You can worship false gods if you want, but God (the real God) does not allow that and He will give to every idolater what He sees as the appropriate penalty.
            Non-Christians invoke false gods when they pray, as this case proves. It would be better to not pray to any god, than to pray to one other than the real one.

          • raytheist

            “Christianity is the only true religion. ”

            But you do not actually know this to be true. You believe it to be true, but there is nothing to support such an outrageous claim.

          • Phipps Mike

            “Christianity is the only true religion”
            says YOU.
            There are many things in other religions that OVERLAP with Christianity, such as just the belief of a divine being as a creator. Obviously you haven’t read ANYTHING about any other religions.

          • Craig Reynolds

            “… only true religion…” That granted, which type? Let’s start with Roman Catholicism vs Easter Orthodox Catholicism vs Protestantism vs Mormonisn vs Christian Scientism and proceed from there ….

          • Neiman

            Yo are talking about man-made denominations using the name of Christ, not the Church of Jesus Christ. The former being flawed, the letter being perfect.

          • Martin Cataldi-Rogers

            Christianity is a religion that has roots from every religion that came before it , its a family tree , even the best theologians and researchers , and religious leaders in inter Christians faith know this Christianity is made from a number of beliefs systems , that have its roots that share at least 5 different other classic religions , ( pre 2000 BCE) , thus it may have roots as the one that started it all Egyptians believed in the same thing 4000 years prior ,, yet war and destruction destroyed alot of the historical information and it was handed down via word of mouth and story’s , If you think that Christianity is the true religion then you have to admit its roots it didn’t pop up one day magically and become ,
            it evolved over time , it is still evolving ( some say Devolving) , The Wars we have now are nothing new it has been continuing for 3000 years When a group namely the western version of Christianity went forth into the world and the Eastern Version which we called Muslims , yes some few people didn’t agree when descent appeared but the underlying belief was the same , its why the bible and the Quran both share some values ,, both books overtime became modified over the control of its followers those who led the armies of the Crusades needed to justify the battles against the Eastern Believers thus an attempt to remove them from the earth began , because the eastern believers began to make more impact in Africa and even to Spain , and southern France ,and even in Italy , so the pope decided enough was enough and called all Christian nations to drive back the Eastern Believers aka Muslims ,
            The two sides have been fighting ever since , whilst pagans who were in fact tortured by Christians , burned at the stake , and in receipt horrendous crimes against humanity, , the interesting thing is most pagans do not dislike Christians and in fact are probably your friends and work partners and friends , the pagan religion which some parts of the customs and beliefs from which modern western Christianity has encompassed and has arrived here today without out it Easter and Christmas would of never existed , But my most important thing is this if you knew someone was a pagan and they were involved in a serious accident would you attempt to save them of let them burn in a fiery car crash , would you follow your religion or your heart , do you allow a single idea destroy human life ? do you allow people to force anything on you and do you find it acceptable to expect the same in return ?
            In the United states and in the united Kingdom you have powers of governmental rule in which states there should be a clear separation of church and state , however if you allow such to cross the threshold under those laws who it protects shall also have the same , you can not live in a country that decides one religion is better than the other , as in turn no one person nor one party is better than the other in politics . religion and politics should not be the ultimatum of human existence , it should be humanity its heart and soul the core system is that someone will always belief something you do not , and we will destroy each other until the last person is dead , it will be not until that time humanity will find out that it was wrong , that religion in general is wrong if it tries to involve itself in politics , you should be free to think for yourself , not for others , no single person nor single group no matter who you are has the right to tell any other person on this planet what to do , how to do it , for the purpose of religious intolerance, belief , and political prowess , Freedom is built with the hands of many and hearts of many you and the souls of those who fought for freedom ,you are powerless to convince me otherwise ., freedom is not just about freedom to walk to Starbucks on a Wednesday afternoon and get on a subway train and ride a bike to central park , and then tell another man of the hatred you have inside of you for a fellow man , woman or child .. It is defiantly not what the founding fathers believed ,.
            The Underlying ting the bible states is this you are judge not by you or the person next to you , nor the person on the train , nor the person sitting next to you , nor are you judged by anyone on this earth , it is not for you to judge , determine , to force , to attack , to abuse , if you do then you have sinned under the terms set forth in the commandments , if you break one you are also not getting in to the place they call Heaven , Love Thy neighbor is about Loving “everyone” about caring for everyone , no matte what they think or believe , its not for you to judge , the day of Judgment will be that time for what you call god , if you belief you have the right to judge then you are not following the bible and commandments you will most probably going to what you call hell .
            Now do you really now think that gods and Jesus work was for him to die so we could start wars , to be sinful with money , to share only with the same kind , no matter if its the Rich/Poor divide or even the Straight / Gay Divide , the bible says it calls these people troubled it does not say to go out to the world and do things it says god will decide not you , for everyone that decides to take it on themselves and commit the Sins and the the Commandments you have failed the only law god gave to you … how do you expect to get into heaven , by going to church one day a week ? by giving a 10th of your wealth , to wearing a christian bumper sticker , by supporting wars lead by leaders in the name of faith . even in the war of terror is nothing but the next Crusade nothing more . but that crusade isnt against just Muslims and Islam its against those who believe they control the power of god , who inturn will become gods in their own minds , Corporate Gods , The wealth and Riches and the power , aka False Idols , you follow those into wars and continue to do so not one of you will ever get into heaven because the test , the simple instruction , those Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth (BIBLE) , were followed correctly , If you dont and will not follow them then you are no different then the person that beliefs in anything else , thus you are the same , you shouldn’t blame yourself though its something alot of Christians belief in doing everything in the name of god , he never told you to do that , he told you to follow 10 simple rules and Follow some Basic Instructions … you cant do that ….

          • wandakate

            RAYTHEIST: There can only be ONE GOD…There are not many gods that are real. You could say satan is a god, or money or our automobiles, or our boat, or our private airplane, there are many so called gods that many people worship, yes, but there is only ONE GOD of heaven and earth. One GOD that can answer our prayers and there is only ONE GOD that can decide whether we end up in Heaven or hell, just ONE, not more than one. There is only ONE YOU, there are no other YOU’s out there, just one. There may be others that look like you, or walk like you or maybe sound like you or dress like you but there is still only one YOU, And you like GOD are unique like that, there is ONLY ONE…

          • Phipps Mike

            ” ONE GOD.”

            nope, there are THREE, The father , the son, and the holy ghost TRINITY. A Unity that BECOMES one but who is to say that the three cannot separate at will?

          • Neiman

            Wrong again, as is your habit. The Bible tells us that God is a Trinity of One Almighty God, the Father, Son and Spirit are one in Nature and essence, they are One God. It is not like three separate Divine Persons. The Bible tell us the Father created all things, but in other places that all things were created through and by Jesus. In another Jesus is called the Almighty God, the everlasting Father and the Holy Ghost is known as the Spirit of Christ. Three Divine Persons in One Almighty God.

          • James Grimes

            One in essence; three in persons. This is the Reformed definition of God and the Trinity.

          • Neiman

            It is always dangerous ground for any human being to try and define God, our understanding being darkened until we see Him face to face. So, despite good intentions, even the definition you used above is flawed, in that ordinary people think of persons as being separate from other persons. Yet, in Isaiah, we learn the this Son given to us, this Emmanuel is called the Almighty God, the everlasting Father, yet He is the Son, such is the wonder of the Triune God, One Almighty God in three persons.

          • Phipps Mike

            thank you, James.

          • Dwayne Hinton

            we call that polytheism.

          • James Grimes

            You may call it that, but those who really know would never make that statement.

          • Martin Cataldi-Rogers

            we could say we are many humans but together we are one kind in the form of humanity

          • James Grimes

            This isn’t what we are discussing at this time. I’m not sure why you would want to add this nonsense to this discussion.

          • Phipps Mike

            how is what you just said different from what I said? ie…”A Unity that BECOMES one ” They were THREE before they unified, why could they not separate again at will?

          • Neiman

            It is completely different, they were never separate at any time and can never be separate in any shape, manner or form – ever. There never has been and never will be but one Almighty God, ONE/indivisible God. God tells us that the soul and spirit of man are one person: the spirit of a man being what we call his life and the soul, the seat of his personality, one cannot exist apart from the other, they are two things but one person.

            That is the best I can do, only God could show you and you have not His Spirit.

          • Phipps Mike

            “they were never separate at any time and can never be separate in any shape, manner or form – ever.”

            ahemmmmmm…Jesus was a PHYSICAL man, God was a spiritual entity…TWO different kinds of existence. When Jesus arose from the dead, he became one with the holy spirit and God.

          • Neiman

            Wrong again! Jesus was always God the Word, He came into this world incarnate in the flesh and blood of a human bein that He might be an acceptable sacrifice; but, while He left His Throne He remained in Spirit, wherein only is Life – God, the one Almighty God. he was filled while in this world with the Holy Spirit without limit, because He is one with the Father and the Spirit as to His Divine Nature. he was never less than Almighty God, His flesh was but His earthly tabernacle. Jesus, while in the flesh claimed He and the father were One God.

            “1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind” John One

          • Phipps Mike

            ” in the flesh and blood of a human bein” and while in that state of existence, he still was something that God was NOT: physical. Sure he had the spirit within him but the physical part made him DIFFERENT than God. at least in a scientific way.

          • Neiman

            Life is in the Spirit, it is the life of anyone; but the soul (seat of the personality and other individual traits) and the spirit (life) are one, the body is but an earthly tabernacle, a cloak that is cast off, because it is mortal. Life (spirit) and the person (soul) are but housed in the body. So, as to His Spirit (Divine Life) and His Soul (His unique part in the Godhead), He was never less than God.

          • Dwayne Hinton

            I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High

          • Neiman

            Well we now you are not a Christian, you are using His word falsely:

            Now, let’s look at how Jesus uses this passage. Jesus had just claimed to be the Son of God (John 10:25-30). The unbelieving Jews respond by charging Jesus with blasphemy, since He claimed to be God (verse 33). Jesus then quotes Psalm 82:6,
            reminding the Jews that the Law refers to mere men—albeit men of
            authority and prestige—as “gods.” Jesus’ point is this: you charge me
            with blasphemy based on my use of the title “Son of God”; yet your own
            Scriptures apply the same term to magistrates in general. If those who
            hold a divinely appointed office can be considered “gods,” how much more
            can the One whom God has chosen and sent (verses 34-36)?

            In contrast, we have the serpent’s lie to Eve in the Garden. His
            statement, “your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing
            good and evil” (Genesis 3:5),
            was a half-truth. Their eyes were opened (verse 7), but they did not
            become like God. In fact, they lost authority, rather than gaining it.
            Satan deceived Eve about her ability to become like the one true God,
            and so led her into a lie. Jesus defended His claim to be the Son of God
            on biblical and semantic grounds—there is a sense in which influential
            men can be thought of as gods; therefore, the Messiah can rightly apply
            the term to Himself. Human beings are not “gods” or “little gods.” We
            are not God. God is God, and we who know Christ are His children.

            Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/you-are-gods.html#ixzz3IdEor5ZT

          • Dwayne Hinton

            Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?

          • Dwayne Hinton

            God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

          • Rose

            The trinity can be explained in an easier way. To quote the words from my favorite children’s show, veggietales, ‘God is like a shamrock.’ God takes on three different forms, but he’s still God. God the father, God the son, and God the holy ghost are the leaves of the shamrock, and the stem shows that they’re all the same. Do you understand?

          • Phipps Mike

            I know what Trinity is. My father in law put it in a neat way too. Take 3 candles. Light two with the third. The flame is one (spirit) but the candles 3. I merely pointed out that in scientific terms, when Jesus was born, his physical entity was NOT God. His SPIRIT was. God COMMANDED Jesus the physical being to do things. To say otherwise is to say that God talks to himself.

          • Craig Reynolds

            Sounds very Quantum Physics to me, without the problem of a kind of homicidally schizophrenic attitude toward “his” creation – cf Noah, crucifixion

          • Phipps Mike

            I know NOTHING of quantum physics.

          • Martin Cataldi-Rogers

            which is the same as the Mother Maiden and Crone … see one is shared , one is Masculine one is Feminine , thats the difference , the bible was written by men for kings and rulers , yet the stories if you change the names are the same , its kinda funny how Christians argue yet if they just take time to examine the older texts 100s or 1000s of years older than the bible its the same information

          • usmcmailman

            YOU will enjoy the “Lake of Fire” assclown !

          • Pigoon Rancher

            Ah! There it is!!! Proof that “Jesus is love”! LOL…..

          • wandakate

            GARY: Well, I now see 7 up votes on your comment so that makes 7 of us that would have left the meeting, myself and Chrissy Vee, along with Douglas and 4 other people. Some of us know right from wrong and are able to see the red flag when it’s being waved right in front of our faces…Either the LORD was at that meeting or it was satan.

          • Phipps Mike

            “Praying to any god other than the LORD, the Creator of the universe and of life is idolatry”
            its idolatry FOR Christians, you forget that you are disrespecting other religions by claiming yours as the ONLY true religion. Ever hear of Interfaith coalitions?

          • Neiman

            So if it was the Satanic Church, the Christian Church should be tolerant and respectful of the enemy of all our souls? Yet, every other faith but the Christian faith is satanic as well.

          • Phipps Mike

            I don’t think a contrast that huge would work as an interfaith. Here in Racine, Catholics (a few), Jews and Christians all meet at a coalition and unite to discuss community issues to bring to our legislators for possible law changes or additions. Such as taking away some of the mandatory minimums on certain low risk assessment sentences.

          • Neiman

            How can Satan and the Holy Spirit work together for the common good?

          • Phipps Mike

            Dude, did you even read what I wrote? “I don’t think a contrast that huge would work as an interfaith” at least pay attention to what I write.

          • Phipps Mike

            “Yet, every other faith but the Christian faith is satanic as well.”
            now you KNOW that was a DUMB statement. Many religions worship a divine deity and it is NOT Satan.

          • Neiman

            There is only One God the Creator, all other gods are not really gods at all, but satanic manifestations. While they would never confess and do not even know it, their god is satanic – period.

          • Phipps Mike

            how do you know that their God is not THE SAME as YOUR God? That’s the crux of the whole argument. You can write different Bibles or texts in different ways that COULD be referring to the SAME ENTITY. Do you EVER ponder about what other religions actually believe and why they believe it?

          • Neiman

            I have studied other religions and while a few claim belief in the same Creator God, without Christ as their only Savior and Lord they have no part with Him and by Jesus own words, are under the power of the fallen prince of this world – Satan.

          • Phipps Mike

            “as their only Savior and Lord ” what do you mean, they believe in more than ONE?

          • Neiman

            You are playing games now and it will soon end our conversation.

            Jesus through His redemption of man is our Savior, as our Savior we are to submit to Him as our Lord.

          • Phipps Mike

            I asked you a VALID question. You stated: “while a few claim belief in the same Creator God, without Christ as their only Savior and Lord ” That is ONE sentence so when you mention ONLY with “the same creator God”, one can only assume you are saying they have more than ONE God. This is why I asked you and you want to dismiss it as a game?

          • Neiman

            This is ridiculous, I am not going to invest time in answering 14 separate posts from you.

            Anyone understanding the English language and having the most superficial awareness of the Christian faith know that Jesus is both Savior and Lord. So, sorry you are playing games.

          • Phipps Mike

            I see you wont expound on what ONLY means if that different religion by your own admission, worships the same God. Don’t use the word “ONLY” in the future if it has no context with what you are saying. If that other religion worships the same God as you, then Christianity is not the ONLY religion that is “true”.
            I thought we had a pretty decent dialogue going on tonight, especially compared to last night. Sorry it spanned all over the board here> I understand what you mean about how time consuming it is. Consider it a compliment that you keep me interested enough to keep going. Just know that I AM a Christian and I have NEVER said I hate Christians. You say I am worldly. I disagree 100%…know why? I already lived a life that has been satisfactory enough for me to accept death and move on. I am 51 and if I was killed in a car wreck tomorrow, I would be fine with that. I use to fear death for the longest time. Not any more. Worldly people want to live forever, keep up with the Jones’s and love their worldly possessions. For what its worth, I was baptized in 1972 and I still have my certificate I could present within 10 minutes of anybody requesting to see it. I am NO stranger to God.
            I grow weary of people not accepting each other for who they are, I am one of the most passionate equal rights people you will ever encounter. Take care.

          • Neiman

            Okay, let us try it this way, Jesus is God, according to Isaiah and His own words, He and the Father and the Holy Spirit are one God, the only God. To believe in the God of the Bible as existing, like the Jews believe in the same God (so do the Devil, his angels and demons), will save no one; Salvation only comes through the Grace (free gift) of God the Father, obtained solely by faith and only by faith in Jesus as both Savior and Lord; which faith is both in and of Christ Jesus and by His Holy Spirit. Do you see it yet? At Calvary we have the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit bringing salvation to the world in and through the Redemption in Christ, one cannot get there but by faith in Jesus – it is utterly impossible any other way.

            In every way you stand with this world and no I do not mean capitalism, I mean all that is outside of Christ is the world, it has already been condemned by God, it will be destroyed. If it is gay marriage or in this case non-Christians praying for their false god’s help in public meetings, you choose, no matter the reason, to stand with the world and against Christians, you defend the world and criticize only Christians and thus you are an enemy, whether you recognize it in yourself or not, of Christ and His Church. No one being born again of Christ, having His as their dearest friend and savior and lord and loving Him more than everything else, could find a way to stand with a world system God has condemned and against His children.

            Baptism saves no one! It is faith alone, like the good thief, who was never baptized; baptism, if the heart is right before God and repentant, hating their sins and devoted to Jesus, baptism is only a public confession of an already inward new spiritual birth.

          • Phipps Mike

            “you choose, no matter the reason, to stand with the world and against Christians, you defend the world and criticize only Christians and thus you are an enemy”

            Not true. I criticize ANYBODY that doesn’t believe in equal rights across the board. This is the ONLY thing that you can consider me being “worldly”. Although the Bible sees us ALL as equal as stated in my wife’s blog:
            ” In Ephesians 5:23 – For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. I never quite understood that. I’m not sure if anyone can explain it to me satisfactorily. This gives the impression that husbands are on higher ground with God than wives. Even without full knowledge of understanding, it also contradicts with this verse of Galatians 3:28 – There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”

            The very idea that you use to say the Trinity is ONE because of the spirit tying them all together, is the same idea that we as humans created in Gods image are ALSO part of that spiritual connection. That INCLUDES Gays, women, Muslims. ANYBODY whom is Gods creation.

            I am fully aware that an empty Baptism doesn’t save a person in itself. When I was Baptized, I was 9 yrs old and had 100% faith. I didn’t start asking questions about all of the Biblical contradictions until I was about 40 yrs old. I did a search of other religions and found none that make any sense to me. It took me back to my original beliefs of the Christian religion, thereby reinforcing my faith. You keep insisting that I am against Christians. i am NOT. I am against anybody that is against equal rights. The Bible does NOT teach you that you are better than Gays and that you should condemn them. It teaches that GOD is the judge and that HE will deal with sinners on judgement day. Point blank, it is NOT MANS right or privilege to condemn.

          • Neiman

            Fact: Gays already have full and equal rights and in matter of fact, they have thanks to you liberals, special rights.
            Fact: Gays can marry anyone they like of the opposite gender, just like heterosexuals, so they have equal rights to marriage.
            Fact: The Constitution protects people of faith in the “free exercise” clause of the First Amendment to not be forced by the State to condone or participate in anything that violates their faith.
            Fact: Every time there is a conflict between people of the Christian faith and the Left Wing of this country, you always stand against people of the Christian faith and with the people of this God condemned world.

            The above is a clear case proving your anti-Christian bias and hate.

            Fact: The Bible does not contradict itself, both Ephesians 5:23 and Galatians 3:28 are in perfect harmony, but I will not invest the time in debating the issue, as you have not His Spirit and spiritual truth can only be spiritually discerned.

            Fact: I did not say in the carnal base way you are implying a tying together of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit by the Spirit, I have made it clear they are One Almighty God, of One Divine Nature and I cannot go beyond that with you because, you have not His Spirit and spiritual truth can only be spiritually discerned. It would be a vain disputation, as Jesus said, as foolish as the casting of pearls before swine.

            As usual, your not knowing God’s Word, are in error. You said: “we as humans created in Gods image are ALSO part of that spiritual connection. That INCLUDES Gays, women, Muslims. ANYBODY whom is Gods creation.” We do not share God’s Spirit and have no connection with God until and unless by His Grace, through faith, we are born again of His Spirit, sharing in the Spirit of Christ, our old natural spirit having died with Him, by faith, at Calvary. So, gays, Muslims and anyone outside of that new birth do not share of His Spirit.

            I hate your constant twisting of words and lies about what I say. I have never said nor implied that Christians are better, as to their human nature they still bear in their bodies, are not any better than anyone else, we were sinners saved only by Grace and like Paul, we were chiefs among sinners, destined for hell, as is almost the entire world. No Christian condemns gays to hell, we do condemn their sins as bearing those wages that will take people to hell, rather than condemn them in an everlasting fate sense, but by opposing their sins and praying for them, we hope some will repent and find salvation in Christ, which means leaving the homosexual lifestyle. You would rather they go to hell than speak against those sins which God in His Word condemns. Oh, I forgot, if we Christians only say what God says about sin, it is not Him judging them, you accuse us Christians.

          • Phipps Mike

            “Fact: Gays can marry anyone they like of the opposite gender, just like heterosexuals, so they have equal rights to marriage.”

            that is NOT equal. A hetero can marry any adult they choose, so that should also be afforded to homosexuals. You keep forgetting that marriage was NOT brought about in the US for solely religious purposes. It was designed as a COMMITMENT, NOT for procreation.

            What special rights do you claim homos get that heteros don’t get? this should be interesting. And don’t try to say the oppression of the religious to practice their bigotry by refusing to bake a cake, that is BS. You may NOT practice religion if it includes bigotry.

            “Every time there is a conflict between people of the Christian faith and the Left Wing of this country, you always stand against people of the Christian faith”

            no, and it is nothing to do with politics. I stand against the TWISTED interpretations that so called pious Christians try to use to go against equal rights, Fact: God makes us ALL equal.

            “Ephesians 5:23 and Galatians 3:28 are in perfect harmony,”

            you will say anything to try to win, wont you? You are full of it. Putting a woman BELOW a man is NOT equality and in fact a good part of the Bible is Patriarchal as my wife eloquently put it. Her blog was SPOT ON. There are over 300 contradictions within the Bible.

            you are pretty dense if you don’t understand that when Jesus was of the flesh that God talked to him as a 2nd entity. You will rot in hell for implying that God talks to himself when issuing commends to Jesus.

            “We do not share God’s Spirit and have no connection with God until and unless by His Grace, through faith, we are born again of His Spirit…”

            Read it again, dummy: “Galatians 3:28 – There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female:FOR YE ARE ALL ONE in Christ Jesus.”

            notice the words “ALL ONE”? yea, I am right and you cant take defeat.

            “You would rather they go to hell than speak against those sins which God in His Word condemns.”

            you can SAY anything you wish and witness all you desire to them, you just MAY NOT condemn them or take away their PERSONAL right to marry each other.

            ” if we Christians only say what God says about sin, it is not Him judging them, you accuse us Christians.”

            as I said, you can witness all you want, just don’t STOP them from doing what is their own personal right. You are NOT their parent and you are NOT God and you are not a divine appointee to be Gods representative.

          • Neiman

            It is interesting to see that not only are you a practical atheist and thoroughly anti-Christ, but by your explanation of what your wife is doing, so is she.

            I did not say men and women are equal, in many and different ways they can have greater or lessor gifts, whether male or female. It is impossible to discuss this subject, because you are not of the household of faith, having not His Spirit. There are many, many passages that must be brought into play to bring the whole divine tapestry on this subject into full view. Too many to ever hope to debate here, it requires one be in Christ, to understand that God is a God of decency and order and not confusion, that husbands and wives are examples of God’s Divine order and while equal as to Grace and the gifts of the Holy Spirit, there remains a Divine order and in it a submission to Christ as our ultimate head in all things. In the end, it is not a matter of understanding, but submission to God, trusting in God’s best plans and order for our lives.

            I can see how your wife rails at this, not wanting you, even in spiritual things to have any authority over her, which is why she would reject your role as the spiritual head of the family to her own everlasting peril I might add. I can understand that you as a liberal, having bought into their godless belief system that you would rather abandon your God given role in the family that you might be seen as being politically correct, regardless of how it harms your family and regardless of how it means you make yourself into your own God, resisting God’s authority.

            We have exhausted all this nonsense, you are unteachable and you resist His Spirit. It is the responsibility of any Christian in evangelizing the world to oppose those sins that will harm him, his family, his nation and the world, because he/she desire that people repent, as Jesus, John the Baptist, Peter, Paul and all saints have called us to do as well, that they might find grace to save their souls. Included is the responsibility and our rights as citizens to try, as much as possible to influence our laws to keep yours and their moral degeneracy from harming my children, grandchildren and my brothers and sisters in Christ. Yes, I know that you do not think Christians have any rights at all as citizens and that the First Amendment is a joke, but that is not the case.

            Every child of God is called a minister in their own sphere of influence, they do represent God to the best of their ability and in standing on God’s Word and against the world, the world you love. But, have no fear, Bible believing Christians are being made into criminals for believing God’s Word, your side will even imprison and kill them, just as God said, but I pity everyone involved for they have dared to touch God’s Children.

          • Phipps Mike

            “It is interesting to see that not only are you a practical atheist and thoroughly anti-Christ, but by your explanation of what your wife is doing, so is she.”

            I DOUBLE dare you to say that to her face in person. Her family is a foundation of Atonement Lutheran Church and has been for over 80 years. Her grandparents were a part of the members of the board. Her mom is married to the head pastor who has worked there as Pastor for 26 years. My wife went through her confirmation and was an acolyte..etc…etc… and she MET God when she was at deaths door when she had a stillborn (she was hemorrhaging). You DARE make a snap judgement? You are LUCKY you are not HERE saying that.

            She asks VERY valid questions. Suffice it to say that she knows that Fundamentalism is a mental illness. NOTHING in this existence is in all black and white. EVERYTHING is grays.

            “I can see how your wife rails at this, not wanting you, even in spiritual things to have any authority over her,”

            1. man has NO right even BY GOD to have AUTHORITY over his spouse. That is a man made perverted twist made by misogynistic power controlling fundamentalist. I suppose you subscribe to that women shouldn’t be doctors, lawyers…etc… If you do think that YOU ARE SICK.

            2. I wouldn’t marry a woman who is subservient…AKA…”WEAK” My wife is a lobbyist, a advocate, has her own 501c4 to strengthen prison sentences to sex offenders, has college degrees in Political science AND International relations, Something that YOU suck at!

            “Bible believing Christians are being made into criminals for believing God’s Word,”

            no, only the PSEUDO bigot Christians are being made into criminals. Its ALL about EQUAL rights. The sooner you learn that, the better, The sooner you learn that GOD wants us as EQUALS to each other, the better off you will be. I have mixed feelings about how to deem you…whether you are a mentally ill fundamentalist or a programmed sheeple that cant step out of the box and take a look at REALITY. A lot of what you said is true about Christianity but some is also VERY WRONG. I will have to step out because I think you are a misogynistic fundamentalist, more than you are a good witness.

          • Phipps Mike

            I am going to rephrase the following: ” A hetero can marry any adult they choose, so that should also be afforded to homosexuals.”

            a hetero gets to marry somebody they are SEXUALLY attracted to and CAN love. If a gay is to marry a woman, he can NOT LOVE her or be sexually attracted to her. THAT’S A FACT. So that’s where it is NOT equal, Heteros get to ENJOY their marriages but gays are not supposed to?

          • Neiman

            Heterosexuals can marry anyone of the opposite gender they choose, so can gays. Marriage is not between same gender couples, with a couple of exceptions in licenteous nations of old,

            marriage has always been defined as between two people of the opposite gender. If they seek legal protections, they have always been available via private contracts between individuals, they need not pervert marriage and a sacrament of the Church as they have their sexual lives, in order to get those protections.

            Equality is a false equation, there are all sorts of things that are not equal. A small child may not get a drivers license, as they have been determined by law to not qualify, so if your equal protection should apply, a 5-year-old should be able to get a driver’s license or it is unequal protection. So, in this and a host of other cases, equal access to things demands the people meet certain minimum qualifications established by the people and gays do not meet the minimum qualifications for marriage.

          • Phipps Mike

            “If they seek legal protections, they have always been available via private contracts between individuals,”

            wrong, a gay man whom is not recognized as legally married to his male spouse may NOT make the decisions for his spouse for end of life actions and may also not even VISIT them while in the emergency room. There was a case about that about a year ago. Also, gays should get the same BENEFITS (financially) as hetero married couples do. Gays DO adopt children…etc…

            Using children vs adults is a VERY bad example. Children don’t have the refined SKILLS or physical qualities to make it safe for them to drive. Especially in speed judgement, fine tuned peripheral vision and mechanical reasoning to recover from near collisions.

            Equality is NOT a false equation. Only those who are greedy would profess that. Variables make it so the judicial system can not be 100% foolproof equal but it is MORALLY WRONG to not make things equal. Do you treat any of your children better than another? (favoritism?) I hope not.

            “gays do not meet the minimum qualifications for marriage.”

            the qualifications SHOULD be “both are adults” and not related within the fifth degree. Sex is UNIMPORTANT and non applicable.
            I have yet to see ANY other reason set forth by anybody in here aside from the Bible as a reason why Gays shouldn’t marry.

          • Neiman

            While the Bible does address homosexuality, it does not explicitly mention gay marriage/same-sex marriage. It is clear, however, that the Bible condemns homosexuality as an immoral and unnatural sin. Leviticus 18:22 identifies homosexual sex as an abomination, a detestable sin. Romans 1:26-27 declares homosexual desires and actions to be shameful, unnatural, lustful, and indecent. First Corinthians 6:9
            states that homosexuals are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God. Since both homosexual desires and actions are condemned in the Bible, it is clear that homosexuals “marrying” is not God’s will, and would be, in fact, sinful.

            Whenever the Bible mentions marriage, it is between a male and a female. The first mention of marriage, Genesis 2:24,
            describes it as a man leaving his parents and being united to his wife In passages that contain instructions regarding marriage, such as 1 Corinthians 7:2-16 and Ephesians 5:23-33, the Bible clearly identifies marriage as being between a man and a woman. Biblically speaking, marriage is the lifetime union of a man and a woman, primarily for the purpose of building a family and providing a stable environment for that family.

            The Bible alone, however, does not have to be used to demonstrate this understanding of marriage. The biblical viewpoint of marriage has been the universal understanding of marriage in every human civilization in world history. History argues against gay marriage. Modern secular psychology recognizes that men and women are psychologically and
            emotionally designed to complement one another. In regard to the family, psychologists contend that a union between a man and woman in which both spouses serve as good gender role models is the best environment in which to raise well-adjusted children. Psychology argues against gay marriage. In nature/physicality, clearly, men and women were designed to
            “fit” together sexually. With the “natural” purpose of sexual
            intercourse being procreation, clearly only a sexual relationship between a man and a woman can fulfill this purpose. Nature argues against gay marriage.

            So, if the Bible, history, psychology, and nature all argue for marriage being between a man and a woman—why is there such a controversy today? Why are those who are opposed to gay marriage/same-sex marriage labeled as hateful, intolerant bigots, no matter how respectfully the opposition is presented? Why is the gay rights movement so aggressively pushing for gay marriage/same-sex marriage when most people, religious and non-religious, are supportive of—or at least far less opposed to—gay couples having all the same legal rights as married couples with some form of civil union?

            The answer, according to the Bible, is that everyone inherently knows that homosexuality is immoral and unnatural, and the only way to suppress this inherent knowledge is by normalizing homosexuality and attacking any and all opposition to it. The best way to normalize homosexuality is by placing gay marriage/same-sex marriage on an equal plane with traditional opposite-gender marriage. Romans 1:18-32 illustrates this. The truth is known because God has made it plain. The
            truth is rejected and replaced with a lie. The lie is then promoted and the truth suppressed and attacked. The vehemence and anger expressed by many in the gay rights movement to any who oppose them is, in fact, an indication that they know their position is indefensible. Trying to
            overcome a weak position by raising your voice is the oldest trick in the debating book. There is perhaps no more accurate description of the modern gay rights agenda than Romans 1:31, “they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.”

            To give sanction to gay marriage/same-sex marriage would be to give approval to the homosexual lifestyle, which the Bible clearly and consistently condemns as sinful. Christians should stand firmly against the idea of gay marriage/same-sex marriage. Further, there are strong and logical arguments against gay marriage/same-sex marriage from contexts completely separated from the Bible. One does not have to be an evangelical Christian to recognize that marriage is between a man and a woman.

            According to the Bible, marriage is ordained by God to be between a man and a woman (Genesis 2:21-24; Matthew 19:4-6). Gay marriage/same-sex marriage is a perversion of the institution of marriage and an offense to the God who created marriage. As Christians, we are not to condone or ignore sin. Rather, we are to share the love of God and the forgiveness of sins that is available to all, including homosexuals, through Jesus Christ. We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15) and contend for truth with “gentleness and respect” (1 Peter 3:15). As Christians, when we make a stand for truth and the result is personal attacks, insults, and persecution, we should remember the wordsof Jesus: “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.
            If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you” (John 15:18-19).

            Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html#ixzz3IgvqrSuz

          • Phipps Mike

            your entire wall of text contains approximately 90% biblical jargon that I already know. The rest is el torro poo poo that is just opinion and lies…ie…”psychologists contend that a union between a man and woman in which both spouses serve as good gender role models is the best environment in which to raise well-adjusted children. ”
            there has been studies RECENTLY showing how well children from same sex marriages have turned out. Roles are NOT important anymore. Men can wash dishes and women can be President of the US, live with it.

          • Dwayne Hinton

            which version of the bible are you reading?

            the one created for an emperor? perhaps the one created for a king?

            see how there could be a conflict of interest there?

          • Dwayne Hinton

            you’re an atheist, minus the trinity.

            why do you NOT believe in the other gods?

            there is your answer to why people might take umbrage with your words.

          • Gary

            According to the Bible, it is idolatry for anyone. Also according to the Bible, there is only one true religion and all others are false. If you want to have a false religion, have at it. But I won’t pretend your false religion is worthy of respect.

          • Dwayne Hinton

            Which Lord?

            Mithras?

          • Gary

            The God of the Bible. The God of Abraham, David, Elijah, John the Baptist, Peter and Paul.

          • Martin Cataldi-Rogers

            you know pagans don’t believe in demons right? that’s a christian belief

          • wandakate

            RAYTHEIST: GOD has greater authority and explicit authenticity because there is only ONE GOD! There are no others. When you know, love, respect, obey, trust and have faith in the ONE true GOD, why would one need to know about the Wiccan religion? Even satan and the demons know GOD and they tremble. They fear Him, because they know He is more powerful than they are.

          • Dwayne Hinton

            why do Jews have no hell?

            if you are Christian, and Christianity springs from Judaism — where did hell come from?

          • usmcmailman

            Witchcraft is of Satan you moron !

          • raytheist

            Then you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. Satan is a figment of Christian theology, NOT part of Wicca.

          • Dwayne Hinton

            no. it’s not.

          • James Grimes

            On this site I can be as arrogant as I want, as long as I give all the glory to the God of the Universe, His Son, Jesus, the Christ and Lord of all, and the Holy Spirit who guides me in dealing with people like you. Take a hike; you don’t belong here on a Christian forum. Didn’t you know that trolling is bad for your mental health?

          • Dwayne Hinton

            actually, that post shows you aren’t Christian.

          • Rose

            No, it shows that he’s a human. We’re not saints. We should strive to be a likeness to Jesus but we can’t because we do sin. Your statement is stereotypical and doesn’t prove anything but exactly how you view Christians

          • Phipps Mike

            “No, it shows that he’s a human. We’re not saints” but yet most in here claim that when I am “human”, I am not a Christian. Explain how that happens?

          • Rose

            I don’t get it myself. that’s not my claim. My claim is that because we are human, we sin. But because we are christian, we try to be better and grow in our walk of the lord. By the claim ‘when i am human i am not christian’, we would never be able to be Christians because we’re always human and we aren’t perfect.

          • Phipps Mike

            My thoughts exactly. Its obvious that what they mean is that when a person is already saved by God, that person RARELY sins. That is a total extremist/unrealistic view that needs to be put in check. Its exactly what non christians call “being pious” aka thinking they are ABOVE everybody else because they don’t HARDLY EVER sin.

          • Rose

            I don’t understand those Christians. I mean, what sets us out as Christians when sin comes into play, is how we own up to our mistakes, learn from them, and try not to do them again. A Christian who considers themselves a saint is a sinner in their own thinking because it’s simply not true. In my own experience my walk with God got so much better when I owned up to my sins and apologized.

          • James Grimes

            Please explain how that is. I have seen a history of your comments and see that you are an Atheist. What does darkness have to do with light?

        • Dwayne Hinton

          You realize you’re including a LOT of people who weren’t Christian, in that “everyone who made this country great”… yes?

          so… you are essentially an atheist, minus “one” God… which, odds are, you’re not one of the “Oneness” Christians who believe in God the same was the Jewish folks do… odds are, you are (to the Jewish people… you know, the people of Jesus and the Jewish God worshiped by Christians) a polytheists, worshipping 3 Gods… which, to the folks who invented the religion – no matter how you word it, you’re a polytheist.

          but hey… not like actually KNOWING the religion matters – you can call yourself a hamburger if you like nowadays.

          • James Grimes

            This was a rambling bunch of nonsense that cannot be classified as an intelligent response. Good bye Atheist.

      • Chrissy Vee

        You are an atheist…so you have no real understanding of spiritual things. I won’t hold it against you, but I certainly am not going to get into it with you.

        • raytheist

          I am an atheist precisely because I DO understand such things. I used to be a Christian. I’ve also learned about other religions, which most Christians fail to do.

          • Gary

            You are mistaken about having previously been a Christian. You never actually were.

          • raytheist

            Be careful, Gary. Lying is a sin. You have no way to know where I’ve been in my 60 years.

          • Neiman

            He is right in the sense that one is either a Christian, born again of His Spirit or they are/were not, there are no ex-Christians. If you ever were His child, you remain His child, even if a carnal, backslidden child, if you are not now a Christian, you never were, you were at best the seed that fell along the path and never took root and quickly died.

          • raytheist

            No, he is a dogma-driven liar, plain and simple.

          • usmcmailman

            And you are a Satan worshiping P.O.S. !

          • David C

            Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

          • wandakate

            NEIMAN: Sounds like what you are saying is once saved-always saved. That is not in the scriptures. JESUS said plainly if we are lukewarm (backslidden) he would spew us out of His mouth. He wanted NOTHING to do with us if we were backslidden. He said you are either for me or you are against me. There was no middle lukewarm ground there. We can have our names erased from the book of life. We ARE NOT always saved, we can lose our salvation. If you have been told otherwise then you have been deceived. We MUST “obey” the word and believe.

          • Neiman

            Actually you are completely wrong, once saved – always saved is most surely taught in Holy Scripture. We cannot debate it here and it is has been debated for centuries, but not one soul that God the Father has given to Jesus will be lost, no believer may ever come into condemnation, there is not judgment for the believer.

            If one is once born again of the Spirit of Christ can they be unborn again and repent and be born again, etc? Can you imagine a part of the literal Spirit Body of Christ being lost? Well, as I said it cannot be debated here, but you are wrong, once born again that child of God can never be lost or it is to say a part of the Body of Christ can come into Judgment and be sent to hell.

            Now there are breaks in intimate communion, caused for a variety of reasons, but never a loss of position as a child of God, as the story of the Prodigal Son so gloriously illustrates, his relationship had been, by his rebellion, broken with his father, but once he turned (repentance) back towards home, upon his first step, as was stirred by the discipline of the Holy Spirit in his life, despite his unworthiness, his father raced out to meet him while he was still on the road back to him and he was welcomed back as a son, with the robes and privileges of a prince of the household.

            A true story I know of, wherein a man had gone to the missionary fields and there failed in a most miserable way, returned to his home and lived a life of dissipation for many decades, mistreating his wife and children and becoming an alcoholic and being completely ruined, all by the hand of the Lord in loving discipline, allowing him to bear the bitter fruit of his own rebellion; but before his death, upon discovery that his short ministry had actually, unknown to him, born great spiritual fruit, upon his repentance like the Prodigal, returned to his intimate relationship with God and gained the forgiveness for his sins that was always his by the blood of Christ and he died in the arms of the Lord.

            No my dear brother, you do seriously err not knowing what it is to be born again and the love of God that will not allow any son to be lost.

          • Gary

            I don’t need to know where you have been. And I don’t want to. People who are REALLY converted to Christ NEVER want to change that. You may have been a church member. You may have called yourself a Christian, and even thought you were a Christian, but you never actually were.

          • Phipps Mike

            “People who are REALLY converted to Christ NEVER want to change that”
            bullhockey! how many leave their faith when they lose a loved one because they think God doesn’t exist or he wouldn’t have let that person die? quite a few.

          • Gary

            You seem to have ignored the statement of mine that you quoted. Most of the people who call themselves “Christian” are not. Since you are not a believer, I understand why you don’t understand how it works.

          • Phipps Mike

            Gary, you really want to shoot yourself in the foot? If “most” are not really Christians, than it would be PROOF that we are not a Christian nation because then the majority would not REALLY be the majority if “most” are not Christians. How about that “there are a great many people that claim to be but aren’t.”
            Most is NOT a good word to use because it means the “majority”
            I am a believer and I get tired of all of you who say I am not. NONE of you have the authority to say what a real Christian is. Until God comes down to PROVE what the different writs say about him…NOBODY KNOWS.
            You are definitely a gullible, indoctrinated, “in the box” sheeple thinker. If you ever got an original thought of your own, I would die of a heart attack.

          • Gary

            I don’t claim the US is a Christian nation. I don’t believe it is. You’re a believer? In what? Certainly not in the Bible or in Jesus Christ.

          • Phipps Mike

            you are HALF right. I believe in the Holy Trinity but I DON’T believe in parts of the Bible. MAN wrote it, NOT Jesus. Therefore I can only trust it in as far as how honest I could GUESS that the scribers were. I have faith in GOD because it would be pure lunacy to believe that we as humans being so far above animals in intelligence and higher consciousness, were not created by a being that had the power to make such intelligent beings. There is N O reason that God would have had a problem with people having sex with their own same sex. It wouldn’t AFFECT him whatsoever. I am always fishing from people like you as to just WHAT is YOUR problem ASIDE from religion with SSM. It doesn’t AFFECT you, EITHER. Its not your right to keep from being uncomfortable in their presence.

          • usmcmailman

            No, but we know where you are going Satanist !

          • David C

            I’m in awe that you can peer into a mans soul and tell him what he is. I’m sure God appreciates the workload you’ve taken off of his plate. You need to ask for a raise.

          • Phipps Mike

            how would YOU know?

          • Chrissy Vee

            18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

            19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

            20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

            21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened

            22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

            23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

            24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

            25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. ~Romans 1:18-25

            I believe God. You chose not to.

            14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

            15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

            16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

            17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

            18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. ~2 Corinthians 6:14-18

          • wandakate

            RAYTHEIST: There is no point in Christians knowing or learning about false religions. What is the purpose of that? Gaining nothing there. One we find and know GOD/JESUS/HOLY SPIRIT, there isn’t anything else to look for. Heaven/Earth/Humans are all created by only ONE GOD, and no others. There are many false religions, yes, and many false teachers, and many little created gods that deceived people pray to but there is only one that is real and that is the GOD of heaven and earth. We are to worship the CREATOR, and not the creation. Creation did not create GOD, and cannot answers our prayers, it was GOD that created all that we enjoy and He and only He is worthy of our time, devotion and worship. You say you used to be a Christian, then you fell away, you backslid and became lukewarm and lost your first love CHRIST. That was the biggest mistake that you have made or ever will make in your entire life. I hope you will reconsider and ask GOD for forgiveness, repent of all of it. Only GOD can save you otherwise you will surely go to hell. For the things that you don’t understand you can get help with that from someone that would know the answers. Don’t be lost forever…

          • grannyj

            There may be no reason to learn about other religions but it might be wise to learn about your own. Like the origin of Christmas which I believe was adopted by the Catholic church to convert the sun worshiping pagans. Then there is Easter where at a sunrise a pagan goddess was going to resurrect her husband/son but couldn’t because the pig ate his head. They ate the pig.

          • wandakate

            GRANNYJ: Yes, you are so correct and I’ve been doing research on all of our worldly holidays and know about all of them. And it was the Emperor Constantine that changed many things. Most Christians don’t research, they just blindly go along with tradition and what their preachers tell them without thinking on their own. They take the easy way out and don’t learn anything. They don’t even know why the celebrate or why they do what they do. Every one of our holidays are Pagan/Heathen and we were told by GOD not to have anything to do with any of them. People continue b/c they apparently just don’t care.

          • usmcmailman

            You…Moron, were NEVER a Christian !

          • Phipps Mike

            says the military mailman pretending to be a Christian, himself.

    • Martin Cataldi-Rogers

      there’s nothing wrong with that , remember this country is built on freedom of religion whats wrong with you , are we a country that is deemed to be prejudiced every on religious grounds apart from Christians what ever happened to love thy neighbor ,

      • Chrissy Vee

        What’s wrong with me? I said I would flee from the meeting because of MY religious freedom to flee from something that MY religion tells me is demonic.
        So I am guessing you are not a Christian because most unbelievers quote the same things from the bible with no understanding of how they are applied. And most unbelievers are against Christians practicing THEIR religious freedoms. Your comment says it all. If ever you do decide to follow Jesus, you will understand. Until then, leave quoting scriptures to those who practice and understand them.

        • Martin Cataldi-Rogers

          how about my religious freedom , do you not care about that , , and here,s a thing i actually study the bible , and other religious text , the bible is based upon what has be found prior , as in the missing texts and other books that re not in the bible yet should be if you consider that there is a number of missing manuscripts , including a most recent one,. found near by where the chapters of the existing bible where found, you can not say they can not be a part of the bible of a part of religious belief if they were proven to be real and of the same age . Going back if Christians want to be allowed their freedoms you must also allow others to have their own religious freedoms , that is what america was about the forefathers and the pilgrims that moved from England , where in fact persecuted by the church and the king of England they were forced from the country and escaped to america , just like law it is all open to interpretation , you have to understand that the English you read is translated from Greek, Hebrew , Latin and the changed to French , German , and Old English , words transcribed had no meaning of had many means and it was the description decided by authors that were orders from the king and queen’s of Europe , it would be only a fool to think they had no other motive than to spread the word of god without changing it , King James bible has more motivation to change and convince the country dwellers that had their own beliefs (in which the term pagan comes from , its country dweller , nothing else ) , you general understanding comes from being forced at a young age most , a sort of propaganda Sunday School , Church ,in other words and text of the bible are being described by someone else and you are being told what it means , and not you as an individual to learn and understand what it means for yourself , so if at any point a leadership say like the previous popes (catholic) have said one thing and another has said something completely different , , do you follow thy leader or do you make up using your own brain ? for me i believe there was a person called Jesus , as a number of text describe such , from not just Christian texts but from Hebrew, , Latin , and even Egyptian, but they describe him in different ways , so as humans are incapable for telling 100% truth because its a scientific proof even if 3 people were in the same room , 3 different stories would exist and only a 3rd would be correct the rest is made up from human imagination, and its possibility to recall correctly.
          but going back if I have to accept your belief without recourse without attacking you , without spreading lies , and hatred , im a nice guy , that hates war ,and likes to converse with our other religions i find it interesting to find a commonality called humanity in everyone , I agree that it shouldn’t of been done(this story) but not because of what you say , but because you think other religions apart from yours is the right one , its the right one for you not for me thats what the free world possible , its called freedom , do we live in Israel , Iran , Pakistan ????

          • Chrissy Vee

            Wow that was long 🙂 Yes I do care about your religious freedom. I also care about your soul. If you read the bible, you know that Christians are called to spread the gospel. That’s what we do. People call it hate when we tell people they are sinners, separated from God. But remember, somebody also told us.( sometimes many times because I rejected it the first few because I loved my sins). I am grateful that they not only showed me, but that they told me how to be saved from my sins (which I finally admitted were sins and hated them) and be reconciled with God. I thought that was awesome! To me, they loved me enough to tell me. they believed my soul was going to hell, and they took the time to tell me. ♥
            Some people see their sins and wretched things they do, some people get offended, sometimes violently.
            Because I believe there can only be one truth, (if EVERYBODY’S religion is the truth than there is NO truth…that just doesn’t make sense)… and because I believe I have found the truth, I of course will disagree that any other religion is truth. I do not attack people, I do not spread lies or hatred. I just will not accept other religions as truth. So if the bible tells me witchcraft is of the devil… I am fleeing from the presence of it.
            Also, a lot of people read the scriptures but don’t receive the understanding because they don’t believe in God or Jesus and who He is, so they don’t receive the Holy Spirit who is God’s witness. God truly does pour out His Spirit on His children. It is a most awesome thing that I wish everyone would see and experience. I hope I helped you understand. Please notice, my practicing my freedom of speech and religion in my original comment, led to an attack by you on my character and belief. I do understand though, so no love lost here.
            P.S. It’s kind of hard to read your posts without punctuation by the way. :/

          • Martin Cataldi-Rogers

            Sorry they are long 🙂 – thats the amazing thing about Humanity , we come from all facts of life and from all parts of the world , we could even be from various parts of the universe living on cosmic egg of some sort, i dont know , but i cant not tell a Chinese person or an Indian their religion is not true for the fact its been on this planet much more than Christianity has , compared to all other religions Christianity is very young , its just a baby compared to the planets history of events ,
            I have experienced the soul but i have experienced someone else soul saying good bye , they knew i could hear them and feel them because of my belief , she was not religious but i am pagan , I am not a lost soul , and no one needs to tell me that ,
            So the problem i have with most Christians is their anger if we say we dont belief , let me be even clearer i believe that what you belief is possible thus i also to believe but i think because the universe and multiverses are interconnected , maybe their is indeed a god for each universe ( see the recent reports in science today about the possibility of universes’s interacting ) , is it not slightly possibly that you and your god who you are deeply connect ted to is the creator of that universe , and the creator of mine is the creator of another.
            Is it slight plausible that the people and civilizations that come before us have something unique and connected to their own , the Science that these people knew 10 20 thousand years ago is remarkable , they can describe things we are only learning or do not even understand now.
            This means their Region maybe lost in translation or still burred beneath dirt and sand , but does that make their religion wrong , not for them ,
            If we Take the 10 Commandments those are a set of rules fixed in stone and given to those who came after to follow , to a people and race , but at the same time across the other side of the world a different religion was also being formed yet the stories and the ideologies behind them are the same .
            so what if by chance the stories are more important than the name , the in between the lines and not the writing itself?
            I think as a race of Humanity its more important to think , discover and if you find something that advances your understating even in religion , for example finding a new chapter, book , text , instead of hiding it under the Vatican or dissing it as fake , to embrace it to understand more ,
            When you Examine the bible you have to understand that the Modern version of the bible , comes and stems from the King James bible , a Bible that was heavily manipulated to control those in the country , the people of the Celts were an enemy of the state of England .
            The Enemy didn’t want to follow and want to do what the king wanted , they were indeed a separate individual group they were there way before 1066 (im from England and now live in the US) ,
            When King James failed to required all Country Dwellers to follow the Laws of the Capital then he decided that away was to incorporate the religions together , and use their Festivals to be included . but as Devil, Satan , Lucifer , Witchcraft , all these were indeed added after the fact , The New Testament which you follow is so heavily screwed with for the better of king.
            So when the Priest says you must hate Witchcraft because the bible says so , here its written in English , that is historically inaccurate , and that blind faith to follow something you believe to be true is not , because the word witchcraft didn’t really become a word use until the late 1500s and simply translates as ““wise one” , or the tribal leaders of the tribes that roamed in the UK ,
            The mis understanding that ““wise one’s” were anything but community leaders that healed the sort of on call doctor of the 1980s in america , where you would call out , by lighting a fire , ( couldn’t pick up a phone in 400 around 400 BCE ) and that culture that pre existed the attacks from The Saxons , Vikings ect yet
            The Vikings had their own similar tales so in the stories didn’t disappear they were told around camp fires Wednesday and Thursday all come for the Nordic gods Thor and Woden , if you dont believe that these existed or have a beliefe why do you accept the usage ever week of your life , Every Wednesday and Thursday you are worshipiing false idols..
            You are picking and choosing which parts are acceptable yet not following the rule of your own laws (Commandments) , a religion that can not follow the rules without bending them and breaking them , that is a religion with a huge flaw and is a sin in itself ,
            Further more the breaking apart and in fighting of each separatist christian religion m all say their bible is the correct one yet they all mention Jesus , god , by virtue or name . The infighting and even actual wars and actions ( Protestants vs Catholics ) why are they fighting , because they believe they are correct …………
            Pagans how ever older than Christians , have varied beliefs and a structure that no matter who you go down the line of the tree Pagan is really simply put the label of the top , such as Christianity is the same , yet the factions in Christianity fight and call each other the sinners , whilst pagans sit there and agree all are different , all beliefe i different ideas yet don’t destroy , and call out , in such this is expressed in Pagans Unite , a unity of groups with the same underlying and single message ” Harm none , and do unto others as you do unto yourself ” as in don’t harm another unless you expect to harm yourself in return ”
            Yet no matter how much hatred and what a book compiled over 1700 years and edited about 20 times in that period of time describes , no real pagan worships the devil ,
            The definition of the devil is a creation of the christian faith . Not to say there are no devil worshipers ., they are but they are not witches the belief in fallen angels not witchcraft , a complete separate following not associated .
            In away its like calling you something you are not but without first truly understanding you , its prejudiced , its misinformed , its wrong . and instead of just reading your words in a book published for profit (when even god says that is indeed another sin, another rule broken )
            Overall humanity is meant to adapt , change and stride for the better survival of its species, we are given certain gifts , but not unique to just humanity but all animals , love , desire , happiness , sadness , if we find information or given information shouldn’t we all adapt to knowledge .and adapt as a human race.
            as for Sins and your Soul , every day you shop on a Sunday every day you use the internet on a Sunday every time you , dis someone in public of behind their back ,, as some people here have called people really horrible names , they are committing a sin , and i believe that by doing so you will not goto heaven as you anticipate .
            I would like to know how many of the 7 Sins and the 10 Commandments every Christian here has committed yet thinks because they call themselves , as christian in name and read the bible word for word that they will get a free pass to heaven ..
            Any one can read an instruction manual buy how many can get it correct , and how many can read it when it is made in 3 separate foreign languages , ever seen a Chinese instruction manual converted into English … Mistakes are made …

          • Chrissy Vee

            Wow. I see you have gone on quite a spiritual journey. I see where you are coming from. It was a lot of info, but it did give me some insight I didn’t know about.
            The belief of Christians appears to be a little strange to you as all the confusion of bibles, branches, sciences, history…. I get it.
            This is what I know. When I chose to believve God, he revealed himself to me that He is real. He opened my eyes of understanding to His word. As far as King James, just like today, there were many translations of the Bible in his day. From what I learned, he gathered the best Hebrew and Greek scholars to very intensely translate, word for word so there would be only the true scriptures. This is something you and I probably won’t agree with, but it goes much deeper as far as the times we are living in today. I wish I could share… but I will spare you lol.
            The Bible says that for those who never heard of Jesus and the gospel or of God and His commandments, He does not hold that against them. We are all born with a God given conscience. If they follow what they know with it, that is what God will judge them for… good and evil.
            As far as the commandments. When Jesus came, he said there are two ultimate commandments… to love God with all of your heart ,mind, soul and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. With these two commandments, we are actually fulfilling all of the law. The one commandment Jesus spoke about (Sabbath day) He said was made for man, not for God. We aren’t sinning against Him or our neighbors by doing anything on that day. (Although I refuse to work 😀 )… Now as Christians, we will never be perfect. We still sin sometimes. But this is the good news… that we have Jesus to turn to when we do. We confess to HIM (no preacher) and repent. We actually feel sorry when we sin against him or others. And because we are His, He forgives us. I have absolutely gotten angry or sarcastic when people attacked me for my faith, or at my boyfriend, or at the box that jumped in front of me and made me hit my shin on it… … but I always feel terrible when I do because I know that I have displeased God. We are ALL works in progress. We ALL sin. But we have chosen to be saved by Jesus that they may be forgiven.
            With the two commandments I spoke about, a lot of people like you and others who I believe truly try to follow the second one (as we do)… are missing half of it. God loves you. God is who he says He is and wants to be reconciled with you. If you take a good look at yourself, even if you are a good person, do you see anything in yourself, in your actions or words that would hurt you, Him or others? Think of the 10 commandments… everything God asks us not to do would hurt us, or others, which in turn hurts Him. What a perfect and wise God! He knows what is the best for us. I believe with all of my heart he created everything! Every planet, every star, every living thing, every galaxy! No, I do not believe any other god exists because I believe God is God. Powerful, mighty, all knowing, all seeing, ever present, God! 😀 ♥ He is my Father and wants to be yours. He loves us so much. He just wants us to love Him back… I mean look at all He has done for us. Satan is filled with lies and will do EVERYTHING he can to confuse, debase, distract, lie… he is so cunning and has so many souls falling for his tricks. (-,_-)
            So sorry this was so long. It is just nice to finally have a discussion and not a fight or debate. Thank you for that. I will pray for you Martin, and I hope you will think on these things. It is never a mistake when someone is telling you about Jesus. God is calling you. Time truly is running out. Take a look around. He is real Martin. His Word is true. Try praying tonight and see. Peace ♥

          • Martin Cataldi-Rogers

            Heh i guess so , in short being in the UK for most of my life , you learn the real history of the land you are in , experiencing the celts then land of the celts , my forefathers and mothers , yes it was and is a spiritual journey , if you take what is happening today with congress and spying , cia , the feds , bankers that was happening back in the 1400s = 1500s in England , you have the royalty making sure you believe in what was written in what was created , any such time you became a disbeliever you was burnt to the steak no matter if you was a real pagan or not.
            Imagine the Occupy movement was the people that believed in the freedom to think and do what you say , they all escaped capture and headed to America … , thats who founded this country , not Christians , this wasn’t a country for Christians , that’s something new ( when Israel was created in the 1940s it because America 2.0 , ;..
            I do feel sorry for American school children as they are educated without being told the other side of anything , only the side of one nation , thus growing up not understanding there is always 2 sides to every story , 2 sides to every war, , and that sometimes no one wins , or sometimes you dont win , the books being given to children in the US are full of holes , missing descriptions , wrong names , places and dates , July 4th for example was not the day the Deceleration was signed . and tha Certain battles never happened the way it actually did ..
            So what im getting at is that sometimes the truth is bent to both make things look better for the home team , and remove the stuff that may hurt them . the same thing went for the bible , important information was left out , especially the role of women , and how certain stories were inappropriately remove or changed to benefit the changing times of western Europe ,

            Take a look over the news over the last 100 years where the discovery of released Government documents that have been released after the 50 year rule , that if we knew back then would made a populous very angry .. the same goes for the Vatican its just that the Vatican does and will never show the huge library of secret texts , books , and artifacts that hold the key to providing much more openness of the reality of the origination of the Christian Religion, can you imagine that information getting into the population following how the system would break down overnight , how you would feel betrayed not just by the leaders of the christian religion but also betrayal by your own lord , god ??? how over night faith could be rocked by something that was kept in the vaults of Vatican City , ….
            understand that underneath the Vatican is a library , but also underneath that is catacombs of pagans…

          • Chrissy Vee

            Yes, you’re right… I am well aware of the evils of the Vatican and what goes on behind the scenes. It is a very rich and powerful entity. They are also the creators of Islam, which was created to kill Jews and non Catholic Christians so the Popes could continue wearing the mask of “Chrisianity” while exterminating the true followers of Christ. You know that he and others are working to create Chrislam? This I believe will be the one world religion in Revelation that will take over the globe. Also, people are already getting microchipped, setting the stage for the Mark of the Beast. And one more thing… hahaha although there is so much more… there are bible translations and false teachers and prophets who twist and skew the truth of God setting the stage for the AntiChrist’s arrival so that many will accept him as God and will follow. Not only has God revealed himself to me, but His book of revelation is unfolding before our very eyes… which in my eyes proves He and his Word are true. It’s very exciting! 😀
            The path I have chosen only leads me to be a better person. His thou shalts, bless us and others… His thou shalt nots keep us from hurting ourselves and others. In the end, I would rather live like the God of Abraham exists and find out he didn’t, than live like he doesn’t exist and find out he does. (o_O)
            All the other stuff is confusion and man made and full of vanity and vexation. I don’t want to confuse what the Lord has made clear to me. You are a unique and understanding person as you are the very first one who hasn’t attacked or tried to belittle me for my belief. I hope you have a blessed day! 🙂

  • Albert Bricker Jr

    And not an Atheist in sight

  • jennylynn

    Praying to demons will never bring peace, but rather curses.

    The LORD has made Himself known; He has executed judgement. In the work of His hands the wicked is snared.. The wicked will return to sheol, even all the nations who forget God. Psalm 9:16-17

  • David C

    Yes I see now.. When we see the words, “freedom of religion” what you actually mean is “freedom of YOUR religion”. It’s only religious freedom if it’s your religion.. *facepalm*

    • jkscott

      David~ Dont be so quick to write of the only God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob.

      For I always believed in him, and Jesus, but never bothered to read his word.

      The Church ( Christians ) were grafted into the promise God gave the Jews.

      He says he is a jealous God…and I know this first hand or proof If you may he and Jesus are as real as you and I.

      1. I used his name in a threat I would leave my wife, two hours later I have a accident on my fourwheeler resulting in a double broken back.

      2. Still in a back brace I rebroke it six weeks later. that night I gave it all up to our Father in the name of Jesus Christ. Yes! after praying and humbling myself to him he instantly hit my back with a heat, and electrical impulses up my side. When these feelings left so did the pain, I was healed.

      3. PROOF!!! two weeks later I see these three letters on my jaw in block form, looks like a white tattoo but they weren’t anything I could recognize. Through the Holy Spirit I started reading the Bible. In study after three years of the accident, it was reveled that the language I was looking at on the computer screen ( the Torah ) Hebrew was what was on my face.

      4. Last year at this same time which would have been exactly a year from when God reveled the letters on my Jaw where Hebrew I had to have knee surgery. The Surgeon was a Jew, and I witnessed to him about my accident, and when I got to where I found out the letters on my face were Hebrew, but didnt know what they mean he just looked for a split second from three feet away, and said it was Hebrew, and it says OUR GOD!!!

      5. Two months before this revelation with the Doctor, the Holy Spirit revels to me my blood line from my Mother’s family that came from Germany was Jewish which I didn’t know, and was of the blood line of the tribe of Judah… the tribe of Jesus Christ which may explain OUR GODS name being put on my face.

      6. God then in this same week last year reveled how I died in Viet Nam when my helicopter was shot down, and it rolled over on my leg pining me underneath it. I went into that white lighted tunnel to Heaven, but was returned to find myself in a mess. God kept me trapped so I couldn’t run away from our aircraft long enough for the gun ships to wipe out the North Viet Nam soilders that were coming out of the trees to get us. After it was clear, the Spirit told me to try my leg again Yes!!! God lifted the pressure enough for me to pull my leg out, and with out a scratch or bruise. What I never realized was when my armour plate in my vest went through my chin on impact it broke my neck, but that shouldnt be to hard to believe… if he can heal a double broken back he can heal a neck as well.

      7. It has been said by others that know the Bible far better than I that by God putting his name on my face was to seal me for my testimony, and that is what I do everyday. David! there is only one God that made you and I, and all these other so called Religons well thats all they are, think of it like this… The Shepard has his Sheep that are always being attacked by the wolves ( false idols ) satan…HE WILL DEFEND THEM! like a good Shepard would ( JESUS )

      James

  • Reason2012

    The religion that is brought up by choice should be the one that the majority practice, hence that’s why in our Christian nation it’s a Christian prayer. It doesn’t mean that by threat of lawsuit one person gets to dictate the religion brought up. If they want wiccan prayers, they can vote to see if the majority want that prayer, which of course would always end up being no.
    And a court ruled that what atheists believe is also a religion so that a guy in prison would then be allowed to have such a group meeting. And here they are demanding their religion by the one adhered to at all times: secularism/atheism.

  • GustAdlph

    There is the famous painting of George Washington on bended knee praying at Valley Forge. To whom did he pray and was that on the taxpayers’ time too?

  • Joseph James

    i love these anti Christain defenders of “free religion” frequent these sites.

    If your so sure of your views..why you on a Christian site effin douchebags

    • Chrissy Vee

      Hey! there are ladies present here. 🙂

      • Joseph James

        i never cast the spirit of offense..so if u received it..thats on you.

        • Chrissy Vee

          um… okaaay. I don’t know what “casting the spirit of offense” is, but I understand you are not a gentleman. Sail on.

          • Joseph James

            never claimed to be…

    • David C

      This article shows up on a number of websites… You read the article.. Badda bing, badda boom, here we are.

      And I’m sure your God would not approve of your language.

      • Joseph James

        lol. kiss my ass..im a sinner not perfect u putz… at least I have a relationship with God u swine….so im not wasting my pearls on you.

        • wandakate

          JOSEPH JAMES: If you had any kind of a relationship with GOD you would not be spewing out these words that you have spewed out. That is not what real Christians would do, or anyone who claimed to have a relationship with GOD. Maybe a false god but not the GOD of heaven and earth that made the world and created humans…You are “deceived” if you think you can speak that way to another person and still claim to know JESUS, wrong…You need to repent of your evil deeds and that foul mouth of yours.

          • Joseph James

            please. spare me the self righteous. you havr no grounfs to tell me my telationship… i admit im not perfect and a sinner…im not the fool chalenging anothers faith because they witness my errors.

            j

      • Chrissy Vee

        That arrow up is for the second part. :/ Peace.

  • http://crosscountry4jesus.com Lance Rowe

    I thank God that He is NOT willing that Blake Kirk should perish but that
    His Will is that he should come to repentance and to a saving knowledge
    of Jesus Christ. Thank You Jesus that you open his eyes and deliver
    him from darkness and bring him into Your Marvelous Light. I have seen a
    few wiccans come out of the darkness and become servants of God. It is a
    hard one to overcome, since the root of the strong hold is pride. It
    usually takes a Damascus experience for them to come to the Truth. The
    fact that he was asked by the city council to open the meeting is more
    fuel for his pagan delusion of serving the created thing rather than the
    Creator in his rebellion against God.
    I thank Jesus that He can and will bring him to that Damascus Road experience.
    There
    is no sense in Christians getting upset over the council inviting him
    to open their meeting. See it as an opportunity to pray, and thank God
    that He has given you a revelation of HOW He wants you to pray for the
    city council. Chances are good that although some of them may attend
    church, they really are not committed to Christ, or something like this
    would never have taken place. Pray for the council members.

    1Ti
    2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers,
    intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
    2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
    3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    Christians would rather complain than step up to their responsibility.

    • Neiman

      You should go back to God and ask Him what is wrong with your spiritual life, when you have much, much more charity and love for this Wiccan priest than you do for fellow Christians. There is something very wrong when Jesus calls us to love one another, our brothers and sisters in Christ more than all others and yet you seem to love this child of hell more than them.

      It is not to be upset for a Christian to express their opposition to this public acceptance of idolatry and satanic activity with the halls of government. We are to oppose sin, in love yes, but surely to oppose such sin that the world is without excuse before God. I see your lack of love for your brothers and sisters as quite troubling.

      • wandakate

        NEIMAN: Yes, JESUS said, “love others as I have loved you”, and “Love thy neighbor as thy self”. The greatest gift of all is “love”. If we don’t care about others then we won’t be blessed by GOD. But, scripture says that in the last days love will grow cold, and it’s certainly happening now as you can see.

        • Neiman

          It was the love of God that would grow cold, not some general sense of love for everyone in the the world.

          • wandakate

            NEIMAN: No, GOD’s love never grows cold. He does not want any of us to perish. He said I will never leave you or forsake you. He will be with his own til the very end of time. He loves us and wants us to know and love him as well as our neighbor. The scriptures say the love of many will wax cold. It’s the people that are going to fall away and stop loving. We are at fault, not GOD.

          • Neiman

            I am sorry but you are looking for a fight for some reason. It was the love of/for God that would grow cold.

          • wandakate

            NEIMAN: It appears that there must be some misunderstanding here somewhere. You are saying that it was the love of/for GOD that would grow cold, and I’m saying the same thing that you said, but I said that it’s the people that are going to fall away and stop loving GOD. We’re saying the same thing…There is certainly NO argument or fight here. That’s not Christian at all…Try reading it again as we are saying the same thing just different wording.

  • Scott Fyan

    JESUS SAID :
    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8 KJV)

    • runBAMrunfaster

      ODIN SAID:
      The unwise man thinks all to know,
      while he sits in a sheltered nook;
      but he knows not one thing, what he shall answer,
      if men shall put him to proof.
      (Hávamál St. 26)

      See? I can do it too.

  • Scott Fyan

    JESUS SAID :For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Revelation 22:15 KJV)

  • Ma Bo

    Any Christian should walk out of there and this place must be dedicated back to the lord, repentance is needed

    • wandakate

      MA BO: Remind me not to move up to Huntsville, Alabama. Thank you!

  • Chrissy Vee

    You say Wiccan, I say Wicked. ♪ Let’s call the whole thing off! ♪

  • usmcmailman

    PURE BOVINE EXCREMENT !

  • Gamera

    Thanks to Wiccans this nation is literally going to the devil.

    • wandakate

      GAMERA: Thanks to Satan (the devil) and his demons that influence these people and deceive them into believing these lies and myths. BUT, it’s not just them, there are many that are going to the devil including some that are in the Christian churches as well. All of those who fall away or never believe or just worship the creation and not the creator will go to live with Satan for eternity…Many of them will not be in the Kingdom of GOD.

  • Phipps Mike

    although I think “tree Wicca” sounds pretty OUT THERE…lol “and further contended that the practice of any kind of prayer at city council meetings was “unnecessary, inappropriate and divisive.”
    I have to wonder, myself, just what DOES religion have to do with the meetings?
    I also wonder what the national anthem has to do with sports.

  • Oracle

    Matthew 5:43-48

    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor[g] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[h] 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren[i] only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors[j] do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

  • truthmatters

    The choice You need to make today ..
    http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0100/0100_01.asp

    • Chrissy Vee

      Love it! ♥ I will repost where needed. Thank you! 🙂

  • rkoen

    And what has your goddess done for you lately?

  • Pigoon Rancher

    “residents were outraged ” — still waiting for all that “Jesus is love” stuff to materialize.

  • Craig Reynolds

    Readers: Please see the energetically argued exchange farther below between Mr. Phipps and Mr Neiman for a clear demonstration of the principles behind the First Amendment.

    • Phipps Mike

      “energetically” is correct…lol Whewwwwwww! (wore out)

  • Kelly Kent-Parcell

    I never have been politcally correct, nor will I ever start! The council should have walked out when the prayer was being said.

  • http://www.remnantofgod.org John1429dotorg

    Deuteronomy 7:4, “For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.”

    Let not your heart be troubled brethren! The Creator God prophesied that this WOULD happen in the latter days…meaning…we are one DAY closer to the soon arrival of the KING of KINGS and LORD of LORDS!

    Seducing spirits will cause an increase in occult activity!

    1 Timothy 4:1, “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”

    Revelation 16:14, “”For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles…”

    See the fulfillment of this prophecy here: http://remnantofgod.org/near-the-end.htm#13

  • Tamela Beckman

    Oklahoma city allowed a satanist group to have a black mass by renting the basement space of a public building…not long after that a “convert to islam” went nuts and beheaded a woman in Moore Oklahma..a suburb of OK city…..see what happens when you invoke the darkness? These leaders need to stand firm and say we will NOT invoke demonic powers into our city. islam is of the darkness…goddess worship/wicca is of the darkness…….our leaders are the blind leading the blind into greater and greater deception!!!