Atlanta Mayor Fires Chief Who Wrote Christian Book Calling Homosexuality ‘Perversion’

CochranATLANTA — A Georgia fire chief has been fired following a 30-day suspension over a book that he published two years ago that contains remarks decrying homosexual behavior and other forms of sexual perversion.

Mayor Kasim Reed made the announcement publicly on Tuesday during a press conference, explaining that he had terminated the chief because he allegedly had not obtained approval from officials to publish the book and that he thought the chief could present legal liabilities for the city—an allegation that the chief disputes.

“[The book] was published in violation of the city’s standards of conduct, which require prior approval from the ethics officer and the Board of Ethics,” he said, adding, “After the fire chief so clearly stated his position on a number of issues, I thought that it created a potential liability for the city. That was unacceptable to me as mayor of the city of Atlanta.”

As previously reported, Chief Kelvin Cochran of Atlanta was suspended for one month beginning in late November and was placed under investigation as to whether he violated city policy or engaged in discrimination by publishing the book “Who Told You That You Were Naked?”, which was compiled as a result of a number of lesson plans that he had prepared over time for men’s Bible study groups. The book, available on Amazon, is centered on God’s question to Adam following his disobedience in the Garden of Eden, and parallels the matter with those who are now “clothed in Christ.”

While “Who Told You That You Were Naked” was published in 2013, it was reportedly not until last November that Atlanta employees complained to Mayor Kasim Reed about its content.

“Uncleanness [is] whatever is opposite of purity; including sodomy, homosexuality, lesbianism, pederasty, bestiality, all other forms of sexual perversion,” Cochran wrote. “Naked men refuse to give in, so they pursue sexual fulfillment through multiple partners, with the opposite sex, the same sex and sex outside of marriage and many other vile, vulgar and inappropriate ways which defile their body-temple and dishonor God.”

But it wasn’t Cochran’s writings against sexual perversion that got him into hot water; it was the fact that he included homosexuality among those behaviors that are cited as being “vile,” “vulgar” and “inappropriate.”

  • Connect with Christian News

 

“I want to be clear that the material in Chief Cochran’s book is not representative of my personal beliefs, and is inconsistent with the administration’s work to make Atlanta a more welcoming city for all of her citizens—regardless of their sexual orientation, gender, race and religious beliefs,” Reed stated in November. “I profoundly disagree with and am deeply disturbed by the sentiments expressed in the paperback regarding the LGBT community. I will not tolerate discrimination of any kind within my administration.”

On Tuesday, in announcing that he had decided to terminate Cochran as fire chief, Reed said that the matter was “not about religious freedom” or freedom of speech, but rather Cochran’s judgment in not seeking approval from the city before publishing the book.

“His personal religious beliefs are not the issue at all,” Reed said. “I … want to point out to a lot of folks calling my home and emailing me on a nonstop basis that I too am a person of very deep religious faith.”

“Not one time during the course of preparing this book did Chief Cochran ever think that it was appropriate to have a conversation with me despite that I have made my opinion and my administration’s opinion clear on this topic [of homosexuality],” he continued. “So if anyone wants to know the most important factor that led me to my decision, that is it.”

Reed then reiterated that he doesn’t believe the matter had to do with religious freedom.

“So let’s stop trying to make this about religious freedom when it’s about making sure that we have an environment in government where everyone—no matter who they love—can come to work from 8 to 5:30 and do their job and go home without fear of being discriminated against,” he said.

But Cochran said the he indeed did seek out the ethics officer prior to publishing the book, and not only was he granted permission to proceed, but he was also allowed to include in his biography that he served as the fire chief of Atlanta. He said that he gave a copy of the publication to Reed in January 2014—nearly a year before the controversy erupted—and was told by the mayor that he would read it.

Cochran says that he should be able to express his views without punishment, regardless of who agrees or disagrees.

“The LGBT members of our community have a right to be able to express their views and convictions about sexuality and deserve to be respected for their position without hate or discrimination,” he told reporter Todd Starnes. “But Christians also have a right to express our belief regarding our faith and be respected for our position without hate and without discrimination. In the United States, no one should be vilified, hated or discriminated against for expressing their beliefs.”

The former fire chief subsequently advised that he does not hate or discriminate against anyone.

“There’s not any person of any people group that has interacted with me for any measure of time that can say I have hate or disregard or discrimination in my heart for any people group,” he explained.

Cochran also noted that he only mentioned homosexuality on one page within the entire 160-page book, but that the issue has now been turned into a matter about homosexuality because of those who highlighted text that they disliked on one page.


A special message from the publisher...

Dear Reader, our hearts are deeply grieved by the ongoing devastation in Iraq, and through this we have been compelled to take a stand at the gates of hell against the enemy who came to kill and destroy. Bibles for Iraq is a project to put Arabic and Kurdish audio Bibles into the hands of Iraqi and Syrian refugees—many of whom are illiterate and who have never heard the gospel.Will you stand with us and make a donation today to this important effort? Please click here to send a Bible to a refugee >>

Print Friendly
  • James Grimes

    I see a successful lawsuit coming down the pike. BTW, I had purchased his book and it was pretty good.

    • Spoob

      I see a lawsuit that gets laughed out of court coming down the pike.

      • KenS

        No, it will win, because a person can not be fired for something he wrote and published during his off time.

        • Spoob

          We will just see about that.

        • James Grimes

          Ken, FWIW, the book was excellent. Treatment of homosexuality, as part of a list of sins condemned by the Bible, was a very minor part of the book. These people who will never read the book are crying about something they know nothing about. Do you think the Mayor read it? Probably not.

  • Babus1

    So much for freedom of speech. Everyone it seems are turning into Christian haters.

    • LJRhodes

      Christians started it. They’re just reaping what they’ve sown.

      • Cody Garner

        Would you care to elaborate?

      • James Grimes

        Are you delusional? If so, you have a lot of company here in the form of God/Christian haters. You may want to explain your statement so we don’t get the wrong idea.

        • ppp777

          Again an atheist useing the bible to justify their world views .

      • Sherri Lucas-Gibson

        But some feel they have the right to hate others.. Some say the bible allows it, not all.. just those ones that want the freedom to say hateful things and use religion as the excuse for their own small minded bias.. Of course if they opened it up and saw that you hate the sin and not the sinner… but they prefer the hate for some reason.. curious .

        The one thing I don’t like though is that the good ones don’t stand up against the hateful ones..

        Not that that trait is unique to western religions though.

        Seems you find that in more than one group of people who want to justify hate.

        Doesn’t even need to be a religious group.. Just a group with a mindset of superiority..

        • Fundisi

          You do not now the Bible or Christ.

          Did you know that God hates sin and those people that lead others into sin? Did you know that Jesus commended two churches in His Revelations for hating certain teachings of some that had infiltrated the Church?

          God hates sin, His children like Him hate sin, first in themselves and then in the world. They do not hate sinners, other than, as does the Lord, those that knowingly leads members of His Church into sin. So, your not understanding that God hates sin and that Christians do not hate the sinner, betrays your anti-Christian bigotry.

          • Robert Davidson

            You have no idea what you are talking about! WE, ARE “ALL” sinners! WE are noo HATE the the sinner, but hate the sin. ( even our own sins). We are not to judge others! The judgment day WILDO IT YOURSELVES!COME, Like it or believe it or not!!. But make NO mistake, WE are not GOD. We are told what to do AND CLEARLY, In our Bible. Some DO follow Gods word , AND some Dont!!! Their Choice and will be Judges as well BY GID AND NOT US! God’s WORD teaches to love every single one of HIS children! We Dont have to agree or participate in their actions, just as those don’t have to act in others sinfully ways. THESE are not for us to judge. If any of you had EVER TAKEN THE TIME to read AND comprehend the Bible??? You would understand that it teaches nothing BUT LOVE, PEACE ND NON JUDGMENTAL WAYS. WE have no right as sinners to judge ANYBODY FOR THEIR ACTIONS! WE are NOT HOLY, nor in control of others actions whatever they call themselves! WE ARE NOT GOD! Don’t get it twisted with people who show hate and anger ALL THROUGH THIS WORLD IN GROUPS. RELIGIOUS OR NOT! I can call myself an austonaut if I wish too! BUT IT DOESNT MAKE IT TRUE. A true Christian is not full of hate, anger or judgment. Call Christians as you wish. But stay ignorant to the fact that you do not know what you are talking about FOREVER THEN. Condemning all Christians as ONE, IS NOT RIGHT! JUST LIKE calling ANY other groups the same, religious or NOT. WHO is the true haters here? The ignorant to THE FACTS OF THE TRUE HOLY BOOK?? Being ignorant to something is common for all of us, but judging while your ignorant to facts is not right when you don’t have to be and Google will never cut it! Nor will Bible scripture picking. NAME CALLERS AND JUDMENTING ON HERE, MAKES YOU “NO” DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WAS DONE OR IS DONE EVERY SINGLE DAY IN THIS WORLD. HATE COMES IN MANY FORMS. JUDGING, CALLING NAMES, DEGRADING PEOPLE, HARMING PEOPLE, ETC.. AND being ignorant TO THINGS AND STILL commenting anyway and yes, WE SEE YOU CLEARLY, you stand out LIKE THE SUN! SO WHAT SEPERATES PEOPLE LIKE THIS AND MAKES THEM ANY DIFFERENT??? NOTHING! TALKING HYPOCRITES? BIGOTRY HATERS? AND ALL THE HATEFUL THINGS SAID? YIU PRIBABLY DINT KNOW A TRUE CHRISTIAN THAT FILLOWS THE WORD FAITHFULLY BECAUSE YOU ARE ONLINE ARGUING WITH PEOPLE WHO WILL LIE AND TELL YOU ANYTHING! WE have been given a BAD NAME FOR NO REASON. IF YOU TRULY KNEW A CHRISTIAN, YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED WHAT YOU SEE AND YOU WOULD KNOW, YOU HAVE BEEN FOOLED. SO KEEP JOKING CHRISTIANS AND SPREADING HATE AS “YOU” JUMP TO CALL CHRISTIANS! AND THEN YOU TURN AND YOU DO THE SAME EXACT THING YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT. WHAT WOULD YOU YOURSELVES CALL THIS? ( RIGHT) SO NEXT TIME SOMEONE ARGUES WITH YOU ABOUT SOMETHING YOU DINT KNOW ANY THING ABOUT, THERE IS ONLY INE WAY TO HAVE AN EDUCATED DECISION OR POINT OF VIEW! THE MAYOR HERE HIMSELF SAID HE IS DEEPLY RELIGIOUS. BUT LOOK AT THE WAY HE BEHAVES? THANKYOU VERY MUCH!!! HE SPEAKS OF HIS JOB ONLY AND NOT HATE! NOR JUDGMENT. ITS A SHAME WE CANT ALL DO AND BE AS GIOD AS GOD EXPECTS US TO BE. THE WORLD WOULD BE PEACEFUL. THATS WHAT YOU DINT UNDERSTANS ABOUT BIBLE BASED CHRISTIANS. UPCI
            Thunk in this! Stop being what you dint Like in others! Unless you just enjoy all if that pointing fingers everywhere but yourselves.
            Signed….OVER IT!! A CHRISTIAN WHO LOVES EVERYBODY. ALL OF MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST. STOP JUDGING STOP HATING STOP SPREADING IT TO OTHERS AND LIVING, BREATHING IT. YOU WANT PEACE? IT STARTS WITH ONE! YOU! YES! YOU!

          • Robert Davidson

            Oh and please dont judge for typos. Its a tiny phone and hard to see. Yes, I do know how to spell. God Bless ALL of you.

          • Fundisi

            Using all capital letters, in effect yelling on the internet at the top of your voice, does not make you right – only loud.

            “When the Bible does speak of God hating,
            the object of God’s hatred is usually sin and wickedness. Among the things God hates are idolatry (Deuteronomy 12:31; 16:22) and those who do evil (Psalm 5:4-6; 11:5). Proverbs 6:16-19 outlines seven things the Lord hates: pride, lying, murder, evil plots, those who love evil, false witness, and troublemakers. Notice that this passage does not include just things that God hates; it includes people as well.

            Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/does-God-hate.html#ixzz3OI9F2PgN

            To the Church in Ephesus, Jesus said, “6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.”

            The Truth from God’s Word is that He hates sin and even certain people. The Truth is Jesus hates sin! The Truth is we Christians are to be like our Father and hate sin, first in ourselves and then the world. Notice it is sin we are to hate, because sin keeps souls from God, He will not tolerate sin in His Holy presence. If we are to gain Heaven, we must through repentance and the Grace of God turn from our sins and to God, that by His Grace we might be saved. We must hate sin because it keeps precious souls from His salvation.

            This mayor, like all too many politicians talks about having a deep faith and then, as in this case, fires another Christian, supposedly a Christian brother, for speaking the Truth in Love and opposing all sin, with homosexuality only being a small part. This mayor did not stand up with and love a brother in Christ, because it appears he knows nothing of Christ and only uses his Holy Name for political purposes, not out of a genuine new birth in Christ.

            Lastly, most of your words above were nonsensical ravings and betray a lunatic mind. You need to calm down and repenting of your sins, turn to Jesus as your Savior and your Lord, accepting the Grace of God for the saving of your soul.

        • Gary

          Did you know that homosexuality is condemned in the Bible? Since that is the case, wouldn’t Christians be foolish to ignore what the Bible has to say?

          • James Grimes

            The Bible very clearly condemns sin. Homosexuality is unequivocally condemned in several places, both in the Old and New Testaments. We would be foolish to disregard what God has condemned.

        • Cynthia Taylor

          When speaking against homosexuals or any other person committing any other sins; people are just like Jesus, it’s not the person they hate, it’s the sin.

      • Fyodor Dostoevsky

        You started it LJRhodes. You started when you perpetuate the attitude of hatred in your statement. You are prejudice against Christians, how is that different than any other kind of prejudice? Why not say, I’m prejudice! And be done.

        • LJRhodes

          Fyodor, I (and other gays) didn’t pass laws that forbid you to be Christian, to get married, to be protected from being fired, evicted and otherwise have your livelihoods taken away from you just for being Christian. Christians did that to gays. And countless other minorities throughout that religion’s history. They oppress others, plain and simple. And no one likes being oppressed, so we despise those who oppress us. And those who oppress do so out of hatred. So, since oppressors start the whole hate thing, they’re just getting what’s coming to them when those they oppress hate them back.

          I am so off the charts sick of Christians who oppress gays whining that we’re being intolerant of them by standing up to their mistreatment of us. They’re like rapists claiming they’re the real victims because their victims fought back. It’s sick. And I don’t have to respect their beliefs or even their religion any more than any other victim of bullying has to respect the urges for hostility and violence of his bully.

          • Gary

            I hope this turns into a civil war. I’m ready.

          • LJRhodes

            We’ve known for some time that’s what you people are hoping for, because you’re violent, basic creatures who don’t know how to be civil, fair-minded and decent. But, to be sure, we’re even more ready than you are, so bring it. You’re just fighting for sport, while we’re fighting for our very lives. History makes it quite clear who always wins those fights.

          • Gary

            I don’t consider this sport. I am very serious about it. You will not win.

          • LJRhodes

            No, you won’t. You’re advocating the wholesale slaughter of gays just for being gay, and monsters like you never win.

          • Gary

            You are advocating the slaughter of Christians just for opposing homosexuals. You are a monster.

          • Taussig

            We’re very serious too….never underestimate your opponent

          • pax2u

            are you still a son of the south defending slavery?

          • Taussig

            So are we…..

    • dark477

      Freedom of speech means he can’t be censored or arrested for his statements but that doesn’t mean he can keep his job.

      • Sherri Lucas-Gibson

        Correct. Freedom of speech doesn’t save you from the consequences of that speech.

        • ppp777

          No , especially when reprobates like you keep changing the rules .

    • Spoob

      No, just bigotry haters.

      • Fundisi

        Why do you hate yourself? You are an anti-Christian bigot.

        • Spoob

          No, I’m an anti-bigotry Christian.

          • Fundisi

            Nice try, but your every word here shows you are bigoted against Christians, no not false, liberal, practical atheists people falsely calling themselves Christians, but against Bible believing Christians.

          • Spoob

            No, Fundie. You want to see gay people burning in hell, not me. That makes you the bigot.

          • Fundisi

            It is always sad to see people of your ilk having to lie, because they are so insecure, lacking in knowledge and distant from all truth. No one I know, least of all me, wants to see anyone, even you gays burning in hell. You do, because you will not stand with God and against sin that some might repent and find salvation. You would rather see them in hell than see them repent and find eternal life. Most Christians on the other hand love them enough to endure your attacks and hate, if they can by speaking the truth lead a single soul to Christ and eternal life.

          • KenS

            NO, we want to see no one burning in hell, but to do that we have to tell the gays the error of their ways so that they will turn from their sins and accept Christ as their savior.

          • Spoob

            Homosexuals don’t need warnings from self-righteous Christian supremacists. They want the right to fall in love like everyone else and to be left alone to do so.

          • Gary

            If that was all they wanted, then they would not have demanded “same-sex marriage”, or demanded that people accept them.

          • Spoob

            Why should they not have that right? Their entire “sin” is falling in love just like everyone else does.

          • James Grimes

            Very true. See his comments above.

          • Gary

            How can you be a Christian when you support what God has condemned?

          • James Grimes

            It is pretty obvious, based on his comments on this site, that he is a Christian in name only. A genuine Christian bases his life on what the Bible teaches. The teachings of man has no value to a genuine Christian. Christ will say to him, “I never knew you. “

          • Spoob

            It’s pretty obvious, based on your comments on this site, that you are a Christian along the lines of the Ku Klux Klan or Westboro Baptist Church. Your “Christianity” is measured entirely by your hate.

          • James Grimes

            Spoob, or whatever his name really is, is a nuisance stalker on this site. He does not deserve any responses. He is here for the sole purpose of insulting Christians. End of story.

          • Spoob

            Because Gos has not condemned it.

          • Gary

            Yes, God has. And you would know that if you knew what is written in the Bible.

          • pax2u

            be ready to be condemned by the true “christians”
            I am told that I am disruptive for defending my faith from their lies, if you are not a true “christian” then all other Christians need to know their place here
            because this is a Christian web site

    • James Grimes

      The Christian haters are trolling this site to be disagreeable and insulting.

    • ppp777

      Yes i think is termed as ” The spirit of the antichrist “

  • Marie A.

    Why would he have to get permission for a book written on his own time?? Will every government employee now have to get permission before publishing something? Hmmm… sounds a lot like a violation of freedom of the press to me.

    • BarkingDawg

      He was not just an average government employee, he was a senior management officer who represented the department in all things at all times.

      He forgot this simple fact.

      • ppp777

        Oh wow , that makes all the difference in the world , thank you .

        • BarkingDawg

          It does.

        • ppp777

          The mayor is nothing but an antichrist , like you .

    • BarkingDawg

      Because he is the chief of police and as such, he is an official voice of the city. He has no. “Free time.*”

      *doubly so as a firefighter.

      As the mayor said: “I hired him to ought fires, not create them.”

      • ppp777

        Wellllllllllllll said , wellllllllllllllllllll said , Lord in heaven help us , we have a world full of reprobates , that poor fireman , I hope hat mayor gets the sack soon .

        • BarkingDawg

          Correction. Fire chief

          • ppp777

            No , the mayor

  • MattFCharlestonSC

    Being a government employee comes with the caveat that you can’t readily express your opinions publicly without prior approval. It isn’t news that breaking rules comes with consequences.

    • Gary

      If consequences from speech come from the government, then there is no freedom of speech. If the fire chief had written a book promoting homosexuality, would the mayor have fired him? Of course not. Probably would have given him a raise, and named him “Employee of the Year”.

      • MattFCharlestonSC

        Let’s drop this down to basics. If your employer tells you not to do something but you do it anyways, then you get fired.

        • Gary

          Reed fired him because his views were opposed to reed’s views. Reed is a homosexual enabler, and the fire chief believes homosexuality is immoral. That is what this is all about. If the mayor says it is about something else, that is just another one of his lies.

          • James Grimes

            Gary, did you see this ludicrous comment above, “Since a great many Christians don’t oppose homosexuality…” All the Christians I know see homosexuality as an abomination. There is no justification for any sin condemned in the Bible.

          • Gary

            I saw it. And I disagree with it.

        • Carshmail

          Your employer has no right to control your private life! And they cannot discriminate against anyone’s deeply held religious beliefs.

    • Weary Warrior

      Read the article. He DID get permission to write. The mayor had a copy of the book a YEAR before this hullabaloo. It’s another case of sodomite activists persecuting a Christian.

      • http://textsincontext.wordpress.com Michael Snow

        Amen. And the irony is that his well-written book does not even focus on homosexuality! It is a book about basic Christian morality. But will brothers in Christ support this man and buy his book??? It would be good for a group study, too. http://tinyurl.com/mdvcl5u

        • Spoob

          Since a great many Christians don’t oppose homosexuality, I’m not sure how you can make a statement like that (without invoking the No True Scotsman fallacy at least).

          • Fundisi

            The no true Scotsman fallacy, is a farce, a lie used by atheists. If they do not oppose homosexual conduct, they do not know God’s Word, they do not understand sin and are at a minimum, practical atheists.

          • Spoob

            No, the No True Scotsman fallacy is one of many logical fallacies which attempt to use flawed logic to score points, as you are doing now. It has nothing to do with atheism.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

          • Fundisi

            It is just another game by liberals to avoid the Truth, it is the wicked nature of man to construct such things.

            It is truth that if a person claims to be something, but they deny the essential things that make that something what it is, then they are by default not that thing at all, they lie to themselves and everyone else. If a person calls themselves a Christian, but they deny the essential truths of all that God says is true about the Christian faith, then they are not Christians at all, but in word only. When people say they believe in God and deny by their words and actions the reality of God, they are at best practical atheists; as that is too hard for you to understand, it means for all practical purposes they are atheists.

          • Gary

            Since the Bible is clear about God’s condemnation of homosexuals, that is the reason why Christians oppose the behavior. And, there are no Christians who support homosexuals.

          • Spoob
          • Gary

            No, I’m not. You just don’t enjoy the truth.

          • Spoob

            You do not know what Truth is or means.

          • Gary

            Then tell me where in the New Testament homosexuality is endorsed.

          • Spoob

            That is called Argument from Silence which is a logical fallacy. I am not playing this game with you. Basically you are saying that since homosexuality is not specifically endorsed then it must be opposed. Here’s why that does not work – your car, where is that endorsed in the Bible? Or your computer? Gee, no mention of them, they must be bad. This is what you are trying to make fly.

          • Gary

            The Bible is NOT silent about homosexuality. It is specifically condemned.

          • Spoob

            How? By magic? A practice that had no word to define it was magically referred to in the Bible?

          • Gary

            Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans chapter one, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

          • Spoob

            That refers to male prostitution, not homosexuality.

          • Gary

            No, it is talking about homosexuality. Just like is happening now. Romans chapter one is very clear about the subject.

          • Spoob

            No. Male prostitution.

          • Gary

            A man is required to marry a woman before they can have intercourse, according to the New Testament. If God approves of men with men, why is there no requirement in the NT for them to marry?

          • James Grimes

            Yes, and then some. Then again, Jesus teaches about marriage being between one man and one woman. And even that is not hard to find!

          • James Grimes

            I can tell you – nowhere. But… there are several places where it is condemned. It is always condemned; it is never endorsed.

    • James Grimes

      Most of your comment is not true. People do not leave their rights at the door when they come to work. BTW, why am I not surprised that you think this way? Does your Liberalism and Atheism cloud your thinking?

  • Gary

    Mayor Reed is a liar, a hypocrite, a fool, a homosexual, or homosexual enabler. And I’m sure there is much more that is wrong with him. The fire chief is better off to work somewhere else. Reed is not someone any decent person would want to work for. Lawsuits may be coming against Atlanta, but they will likely not succeed due to the corruption of the legal system. Any retaliation toward the mayor should be direct and not through the legal system. I personally will continue my boycott of the city of Atlanta.

  • SFBruce

    There’s no violation of Cochran’s civil liberties here. He can say what he likes; publish what he likes, but he can’t be the fire chief for a ctiy which includes LGBT residents who now must surely wonder if he’ll regard emergencies for them in the same light as the “non-pervert” population. What’s more, he was warned and had every opportunity to reconsider his actions, and made clear he would change nothing. The mayor made the right decision for the city.

    • Gary

      When someone calls 911 and says their house is on fire, does the fire department ask if the house belongs to a sodomite? Of course not. Your argument is BS.

    • Weary Warrior

      How foolish to assume he “might” do this or that. He hasn’t done it. Do you consume alcoholic beverages? You MIGHT get drunk one night and kill a family while driving. Shall we take away your license and vehicle now?

      • Carshmail

        Agreed. We might have assumed SFBruce was ignorant, but we had no proof until he posted that blather.

    • James Grimes

      There’s no violation. ..? That would be up to a court to decide.

      • SFBruce

        If he files a lawsuit, that’s just what will happen. In the meantime, I have every right to form and express an opinion, just as you do.

    • Carshmail

      I guess it’s okay for Christians to wonder if they’ll be discriminated against in emergencies then? This is really flawed logic.

      • SFBruce

        It would be OK with you if he had written a diatribe against Christians?

        • Jonathan C. Mitchell

          No it wouldn’t be okay, but that is not what happened here. When you present proof that the man discriminated against anyone in the performance of his duties, then I am with you. If you are demanding a nation where my personal views cannot be expressed or must comport with yours or anyone else’s, then I gott tell you, that’s not America.

          • SFBruce

            Why is it OK to for him to publicly criticize LGBT people, but not Christians? I neither demand nor expect everyone’s personal views to agree with mine, but speech has consequences. All citizens of Atlanta should feel that emergency services are available based on need, not whether or not they meet with the chief’s moral code, and that includes Christians, as well as gay people, and everyone else.

          • Gary

            LGBT people are immoral. That is why it is ok for him to publicly criticize them. But if their houses catch fire, the FD will still come to the scene and fight the fire.

          • Jonathan C. Mitchell

            I think you are projecting based on a false assumption. That speaks to your attitudes more than the Chief’s. You don’t get to be a Chief without lots of years on the job. No one has ever accused him of discrimination, or favoritism. I am a pastor, and no one I personally know advocates treating anyone differently, whether we agree with them or not. Again, he wrote a book on Christian values. Calling something sinful is not tantamount to hating the ‘sinner’. And by the way, the Bible identifies many sinful acts and behaviors, any of which will have the effect of separation from God. Paul reminds us in Romans that we are all sinners. Without Christ, we are all lost no matter what particular ‘flavor’ our sin takes.

          • KenS

            his book and actions never once implied that emergency services are available based on the chief’s moral code.

          • Jonathan C. Mitchell

            You seem to think he was only critical of Homosexuality. He was actually pointing out all sins the Bible identifies as sexual sins. In that respect, it covers heterosexuals as well. So the notion that he was somehow zeroing in on the LGBT community is patently false.

    • Nick_from_Detroit

      So, by your logic, no homosexual may be the fire chief either, since, Christian residents will surely wonder if he’ll regard emergencies for them in the same light as the “non-bigot/hater/discriminator” population, eh?

  • Fundisi

    The mayor is a liar, he is not a man of Christian faith at all. The mayor is a liar, he is pro-homosexuality. The mayor is a liar, he is discriminating against the Fire Chief based on a violation of his 1st Amendment rights.

    It is clear in the Bible that the things the chief listed are sins and perversions and he has a right to defend those beliefs, but that does not in any way demonstrate or prove this Fire Chief did or would in the performance of his duties discriminate against gay employees or gay citizens. It is the very fact he is a Christian and that liberals like this mayor will brand all Christians as a form of terrorist, insisting that they are unable to take a stand against sin and yet treat all sinners in the love of God.

    It is not the Fire Chief that should be fired, it is the mayor.

    • Gary

      The mayor would be fired, and the city’s pro-homosexual policy would be changed IF the people of Atlanta were not as wicked as the mayor is.

      • Fundisi

        Exactly true! What irritates me is people like this mayor, Pelosi and Obama and a host of politicians insisting they are people of deep faith, while they support the gay lifestyle, the mass murder of babies and discrimination against Christians. Virtually all politicians are wicked liars.

        • Gary

          Exactly right.

      • James Grimes

        Very true.

      • Sherri Lucas-Gibson

        And you deem yourself worthy enough to decide this. How very special of you to be able to paint a whole city as wicked.. Has god given you a special power to do this.. or is it something you picked up along your life path??

        • James Grimes

          Are you a Bible-believing Christian? If so, you will understand where Gary is coming from. BTW, I love the way you are insulting. You must have a lot of experience doing this.

          • Fundisi

            She like others here are anti-Christian bigots.

        • Fundisi

          Christians, John 7:24, are called to make righteous judgments, discerning good from evil.

        • Gary

          Was the mayor voted in by a majority of the voters of Atlanta? Everyone who voted for him is partly responsible for what he has done.

        • pax2u

          you will find a “special” group here who decides who is and who is not a Christian, and who can and who can not post here because they consider themselves the only true “christians” on a Christian website

    • MattFCharlestonSC

      The mayor is not required to be a man of Christian faith. According to an Atlanta news outlet “Not one time during the course of preparing this book did the Chief ever think it was appropriate to have a conversation with me”. Seems to me like he didn’t have a copy beforehand. First amendment doesn’t protect you from being fired.

      • Fundisi

        No one – I mean NO ONE said the mayor was required to be a person of faith, so raising that issue is asinine and typical liberal tactic.

        Why does this Fire Chief have to have a discussion with the mayor or get him a copy before or after publication? But, the Chief “did seek out the ethics officer prior to publishing the book, and not only was he granted permission to proceed, but he was also allowed to include in his biography that he served as the fire chief of Atlanta.” Now to anyone but a liberal and this mayor, that would meet all that was required or reasonable in making sure the Chief was not violating city policy.

        The mayor’s only basis for firing him was because the Chief, being a Christian, wrote about sin and included one of the two favorite sins protected by liberals; being, baby murders and homosexuality. I hope the mayor personally and the city are sued, have to pay millions of dollars and this liberal, Christ hating liberal mayor loses his job.

        • MattFCharlestonSC

          You are the one who raised the issue — “The mayor is a liar, he is not a man of Christian faith at all” but i do agree with you that it is asinine to bring it up.

      • KenS

        There is such a thing as wrongful termination lawsuits, and this mayor would lose such a lawsuit because the fire chief did nothing wrong in writing this book.

  • Frank

    I feel sorry for Reed when he is before the judgment seat. There will be a lot of weeping and gnashing of his teeth. I can just hear him telling Jesus now, “But, but, but, umm, umm, I had to go against you Jesus.”

    • Gary

      I don’t feel sorry for him.

      • Frank

        I feel sorry for all who choose to disobey Jesus and end up in eternal torment. It’s not going to be what they think it will be. They are deceived and as someone that was held in bondage to sin for the time that I was, I feel sorry/sad for them

    • KenS

      Just because he went against Jesus in this instance, does not mean he is not saved. It will mean when he is before Jesus in the Judgment Seat of Christ, that he will lose some rewards for this action, but his sold is already saved from hell, if he is saved.

      • Gary

        People who support homosexuality are not saved. Their actions prove they are not.

        • KenS

          You can be saved and have a misunderstanding of doctrine, which is why the bible says to study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly diving the word of truth. Also a perfect example is when Paul had to admonish Peter for separating himself from the gentile Christians when in Jerusalem amongst the Jewish Christians. Was Peter not a Christian just because of his misunderstanding of the doctrine that we are all part of the body of Christ, whether Jewish or gentile? The answer is of course he was still a Christian, he was just confused. I believe there are a lot of Christians today that are just confused on the doctrine of whether or not homosexuality is a sin or not.

          • Gary

            Not a misunderstanding about this. You will find that people who advocate for homosexuals are wrong about many other things in the Bible. And they are not saved.

          • KenS

            You may or may not be correct, but I have given you examples from the bible, where your generalization is false and I choose to let Jesus, the one true Judge who sees the heart be the judge in this matter.

          • Frank

            “When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.” Gal 2:11 A lot of people calling themselves Christians are in for a rude awakening.

          • KenS

            The condemnation he spoke of here is not condemnation to hell, but rather condemnation of God’s chastisement of his children, because we already know that Peter was a saved man at this time, you cannot lose your salvation. Hebrews 12:9-11 speak of our heavenly father’s chastisement to the saved.

          • Frank

            Calvanism is not the gospel of Jesus.

            “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel– which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!” Gal 1:6-8
            “When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.” Gal 2:11 and this was for preaching another gospel.

            As for your Hebrews 12 reference:
            Peter accepted the discipline and repented and then after Peter’s repentance it produced a harvest of righteousness and peace as Peter was trained by it. Everyone undergoes discipline but not everyone accepts discipline and thus are illegitimate children as noted in vs 8. Such as what Reed is doing and a great majority of those running around calling themselves Christians. Also note in vs 14, “without holiness no one will see the Lord”. And v. 16 “See that no one is sexually immoral or is godless like Esau” who sold his inheritance rights. And as v. 17 notes he became rejected and lost his inheritance. Being sexually immoral is lumped in to those claiming to be christians losing their inheritance. Also vs 25, “See to it that you do not refuse Him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from Him who warns us from Heaven?” Reed right now has turned away from Jesus. That is a scary place to be. Calvanism is not biblical and is not Jesus. Our names can be blotted out of the Book of Life!!! Rev 3:5

            “Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.” 2 John 9-11

            Reed is not in repentance. Matter of fact he is justifying his ungodly behavior and even trying to justify himself as in: “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'” Luke’s 13:26 And notice Jesus’ response to this: “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'” Luke 13:27

          • KenS

            Calvinism is not the belief of one saved always saved, Calvinism is the belief of predestination instead of free will. If you can so easily confuse Calvinism and one saved doctrine, I am not going to be able to get through to you

          • Frank

            Calvanism has many aspects besides predestination vs free will.

          • KenS

            Yes, I understand that, but just beause you believe in one of the aspects of Calvinism, (Security of Believers) does not make ye a Calvinist. Especially if you do not believe in the core belief of predestination.

          • Frank

            OSAS is a Calvinist doctrine. OK, so you are saying you are not a full Calvanist but only subscribe to OSAS. But either way the doctrine’s origins are John Calvin and is a Calvanist doctrine.

          • KenS

            No, it is a Biblicist doctrine. and it is supported throughout the entire Bible. You have twisted scripture to read what you want to believe it to read. Because to you, grace does not make sense, you want to have to work for your salvation and God says I have already paid for it.

          • Frank

            OSAS is a false Christ, a false gospel spread by Lucifer. OSAS is a license to sin and very much against the gospel of Jesus. I do not work for my salvation. I do work out my salvation with fear and trembling as the bible commands. Which is different than working for something. Grace very much makes sense to me. Whic is why in responce to Jesus first loving me I work out what He has worked into me. OSAS is cheap grace that gives a license to sin and is a doctrine of devils.

      • Frank

        “Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have ‘relations’ with men” 1 Cor 6:9
        “But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Rev 21:8
        “Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.” Rev 22:15
        “Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God.” 3 John 11
        “Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.” 2 John 9-11

        Reed is not in repentance. Matter of fact he is justifying his ungodly behavior and even trying to justify himself as in: “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'” Luke’s 13:26 And notice Jesus’ response to this: “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'” Luke 13:27

        • KenS

          first off, you need to continue reading to verse 1 Corinthians 6:11, “And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” He was stating this to Christians that were not aware of their position in Christ and still trying to live that way, to make them see that they are a new creature and should be fleeing from these sins because they have already been paid for.
          Second, in reference to your luke 13:27 reference, I will refer you to Matthew 7:22-23, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done may wonderful works? and then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” For Him to say I never knew you, is to imply that they were NEVER saved, not that they were saved and sinned.
          ANd your references to the epistles of John, John is telling us how to know if a person was truly saved or not, not telling us that a saved person can lose his salvation.

          • Frank

            First off you need to flee your Calvanistic, ungodly, false gospel way of thinking. “The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have ‘relations’ with men” 1Cor 6:7-9 Which shows he was warning them if they stayed in these courses of action they would not inherit the Kingdom of God. Yes, he also took a stance to imply maybe they didn’t know. This in no way takes away from the warning to stop or they would be in serious trouble as he even pointed out they were already defeated- completely, not partially. 

            And your reference to Matthew with not even the same parable although similiar does in no way disprove the scriptures quoted to rebuke you. Actually it helps show what was written as v 21 says, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” 

            Reed is not doing the will of the Father in heaven. As are quite a lot of the professing Christians deceived by calvanism and the once saved always saved false gospel.

            And your attempt to dismiss 2 John falls flat as it helps prove all of what the scriptures quoted to rebuke you.

          • James Grimes

            “As are quite a lot of the professing Christians deceived by calvanism and the once saved always saved false gospel.”
            Have you read the last part of Romans 8?

          • Frank

            Why, yes. The infamous verses misused and misinterpreted in light of the Word of God as a whole to falsely justify once saved always saved. They do not say once a person is saved they will always be saved. Says nothing will separate us from the love of God. Well, God so loved the world that Jesus died for the whole world, even for those that do not believe and are not saved nor will be saved. God still loves them so much He died for them to give them the opportunity to be saved. And nothing will separate the unsaved from that love. Even their unbelief. But their unbelief will separate them from eternal life not from the fact that God so loved them to die for them. There is a difference between being separated from the love of God as demonstrated in Christ Jesus and separated from eternal life with Jesus in heaven because of unbelief, not remaining in the the love of God through continued obedience to Him, through falling away after sharing in the Holy Spirit, deliberately continuous sinning after receiving the knowledge of the Truth, etc. God clearly says we can walk away in numerous places and even shows our names can be blotted out of the book of life if we are not victorious and spit out of the mouth of Jesus if we remain lukewarm, which shows they were at one point with their names in the book of life and were to be confessed by Jesus to the Father. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            The question is, does Romans 7-9 teach anything like Calvinism, and has it been the Church’s tradition of such passages throughout history?

          • James Grimes

            Only since the Reformation when the Bible was allowed to be in the hands of the people. Calvin’s exegesis made these doctrines very clear to those who read the passages.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            I would argue that there would be no Calvin without Augustine. Calvin took Augustine’s interpretation too far.

          • pax2u

            first Nieman/Fundisi and poor little insulted Lisa fighting
            Now are Frank and James Grimes fighting over Once Saved Always Saved and Calvinism?
            no wonder that there are over 30 thousand denominations, and they belong to none of them, but they are the True “christians”

          • James Grimes

            I see Frank’s response to me (very long) is no longer here. Curious.

          • Gary

            I have had several comments removed. They usually involve the word “marriage”. Maybe the censor does not like that word.

          • KenS

            He also says that he will say to them that I never knew you, which implies that they were never saved, not that they were saved and lost the salvation.
            Here are some of the scriptures that show the security of believers, one saved always saved.
            Ephesians 1:13, 2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 4:30, and my personal favorite is 1 Corinthians 3:12-17, this one specifically states that if we sin after salvation, our works will be tested by fire and will be burned up because of the sins, but that our souls shall still be saved, it also talks about how our body is the temple of God, and our body will be destroyed if we defile it, this speaks of the sin unto death of the believer that God will do when He feels that your witness on earth is doing more harm than good because of your lifestyle of sin and no response to his chastisement.

          • Frank

               In Matthew it says He never knew them, yet in Luke He does not say that. There are depths and angles and sides to the Word as are there depths and angles and sides to the variety of different situations of people. Not everyone is in the same place in their walk with or without the Lord. Yet the Word speaks to all. These are two similiar parables but also entirely different. Two depths, two angles, two sides speaking to similar but different situations. Matthew for example is speaking of those actually preaching and teaching and performing miracles, signs and wonders, wolves in sheep’s clothing, false prophets. See vs. 13-20 for the setting the scenario of the verses you referred to and note verse 22’s justification. Now note in Luke 13:26 the justification is completely different. More of a church goer’s justification and for that present time those sitting before Him listening to Him right then. Also the setup verses are completely different. The justifications are different and the responses to the justifications were different. Similar but different parables and teachings. In both people thought they were saved. And so your quoting of Matthew in no way refutes what was written about Reed and professing christians concerning the parable in Luke.

            Now as for your confusion of these verses and the ungodly and very unbiblical doctrine of once saved always saved in order of you quoting them: 

            “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,” Eph 1:13
            The first sentence even seems to imply justification for the justification used in the parable in Luke but alas it is not a valid justification as we have already found out in Luke hearing does not necessitate salvation per se. It goes on to further qualify belief after hearing to receive being “marked” in Jesus with a seal, which is the Holy Spirit. Now to continue on to v. 14 “who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession–to the praise of his glory.” Might seem like a case closed. But as we have already seen from the first sentence – first glance looks without looking at the entire bible can be misunderstood. We must understand and interpret Scripture in light of the entirety of Scripture. And there are too many verses in the OT and NT that shows we can walk away from salvation and have the Holy Spirit taken from us. So these verses and being marked (marks can be erased) with a seal (seals can be broken) does not mean once saved always saved as we will look at. But these verses do mean we can trust God’s promises while walking in faith in obedience to Christ. It is from faith to faith that we are saved. Believing in your heart and confessing with your mouth. Living out faith in Christ crucified. We know there are conditions to the guarantee because of the entirety of Scriptures. And the OT was written for examples. The gospel is spelled out in the OT as well as the NT. God is the same yesterday and today. So let us look at the other verses that talk of receiving the seal.

            “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.” Eph 4:30
               This one gives a warning to not grieve the Holy Spirit. The whole context of the surrounding verses is not living as you used to but living for God. And even warns in the beginning of Chapter 5 that no one living as immoral, impure, greedy or as an idolater has any inheritance. So there must be repentance for salvation. And 4:20-24 says we must put on the new self and put off the old self. So we cannot live as the world lives. We cannot continue to live in sin and expect to have a part in the inheritance with which we were sealed for. Still no once saved always saved.

               Ezekiel 18 shows this. Note verse 31 that this entire chapter is referring to the New Covenant with the New Heart and New Spirit. God says that if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin they will die for it. Verse 24-26. Definitely not once saved always saved. Ezekiel 33:10-20 reinforces this. In Christ we are considered righteous. Definitely still not once saved always saved. Actually the total opposite. God is the same yesterday as He is today.

               Isaiah 63:10 “Yet they rebelled and grieved the Holy Spirit. So He turned and became their enemy and He Himself fought against them.” 
            This explains grieving the Holy Spirit and even shows what will happen to those that do. God is the same yesterday as today. Definitely not once saved always saved but the total opposite.

            “set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.” 2 Cor 1:22
               Guaranteeing what is to come as we have already seen is not once saved always saved. And Revelation 2-3 shows against OSAS. And 3:5 shows we can have our names blotted out of the Book of Life if we are not victorious in our walking out our faith in Christ Jesus. Definitely not once saved always saved. 
            Hebrews 6:4-6 shows a person can walk away from salvation and v. 4 shows that they would be someone that “shared in the Holy Spirit”.
            Hebrews 10:26-39 once again shows a person can be considered in salvation and walk away from it. “If we deliberately keep on sinning… No sacrifice for sins is left, but only fearful expectation of judgement and raging fire.. How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them(notice they were sanctified at one point), and who insulted the Spirit of grace?… So do not throw away your confidence… You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God you will receive what He promised…. But we do not belong to those that shrink back and are destroyed…”
            And this is just a smattering of scriptures that show these verses are not referring to once saved always saved as God does not teach once saved always saved. Quite the opposite.

            As for your favorite verse in 2 Corinthians 3 that do not teach once saved always saved it is speaking of works that we do for Jesus that are right and not right, to crowns earned and not earned. The temple referred to here is not the individual believer but the church as a whole. Chapter 6 refers to individual believers not this section so your attempted exegesis is wholly incorrect. This does not show once saved always saved as that doctrine is heavily taught against by God throughout the entire Bible. This section is right in the middle of a whole chapter talking of quarrels about church leaders, planting and growing, building upon the foundation through works and not boasting about various solid church leaders being better than other solid church leaders. Definitely not OSAS in the Bible. You are gravely mistaken.

            OSAS is a license to sin which is sending millions+ of souls to eternal torment.

  • http://textsincontext.wordpress.com Michael Snow

    The
    book is well-written and would be good for a group study. Ironically,
    it does NOT focus on homosexuality but on basic Christian morality.
    Support this brother and buy his book. http://tinyurl.com/mdvcl5u

    • Spoob

      Yeah, I’m not gonna be doing that. I don’t believe in rewarding bigotry.

      • KenS

        there was no bigotry in the book. It clearly listed all sins as perversions, including, adultery, murder, stealing, lying, etc…

        • Spoob

          And you think falling in love is a sin?

          • KenS

            Show me where I said that?

          • Spoob

            Do you not understand what homosexuality is?

          • Gary

            It is perversion.

          • Spoob

            Not according to science.

          • Gary

            According to God it is.

          • Spoob

            Untrue. That is an invention of fundamentalists.

          • James Grimes

            Gary: ” (Homosexuality) It is perversion.”
            Spob: “Untrue. That is an invention of fundamentalists.”

            And he wants us to believe that he is a Christian????

          • Gary

            None of us believe him.

          • James Grimes

            🙂

    • James Grimes

      The bigots here will never read Cochran’s book, so their opinions are very much lacking credibility.

  • bowie1

    Did he mention that he was the Atlanta Fire Chief? If so, it might give the impression that it reflects the views of the fire department and/or the city. If not, then he should be allowed to publish without repercussions.

    • BarkingDawg

      Nor should he be allowed to distribute copies to his subordinates

      • Gary

        He can give copies to anyone who will accept one.

      • bowie1

        He was advertising online so only those people wanting to buy the book would receive it. His subordinates can decide if they want to buy it or not assuming they would’ve been aware of it before they mayor said something about it. I assume you would say the same if it was pro-gay book being published about not distributing to subordinates?

  • LJRhodes

    Actually, no I don’t have to respect people’s religious beliefs, since religion is a CHOICE. Being gay isn’t a choice, so we do have to be respected as human beings, and we have to be given all the same rights and protections under the law everyone else has. But we’re continually denied those rights and protections based on religion. So, no, religion deserves no respect from me or anyone else it’s used to oppress, and to demand that I respect it is like a rapist demanding that his victim respect him and treat him with tolerance and dignity. I think you know exactly where you can shove such demands.

    • Gary

      Your behavior is your choice. And you deserve no respect for being immoral.

      • LJRhodes

        Being gay is no more a behavior than being black, or female, or tall, or blue-eyed. Nor is it any more of a choice or any more immoral.

        • Gary

          No one would ever know you were homosexual unless you behaved like one, or identified yourself as one. Homosexuality is immoral, according to God. And I believe HIM, not you.

          • BarkingDawg

            God told me that he doesn’t care if you are gay, Gary. So you can chill out.

          • Gary

            God did not tell you that because it conflicts with what God has said as recorded in the Bible. You are lying.

          • BarkingDawg

            God told me that your bible was mistranslated back in the day.

            Prove me wrong, APOSTATE HERATIC!!!

          • Gary

            Go play in the traffic.

          • James Grimes

            What does he know, calling you an “APOSTATE HERATIC”? He should check his spelling first. Then he needs to do to a dictionary while he is looking in the mirror. Anyhow, it was good for a laugh.

      • BarkingDawg

        Science is pretty clear on that, homosexuality is not a choice

        You may wish it were, but no, it is not.

        • Gary

          Homosexual behavior is ALWAYS a choice. People are not machines with no control over their actions.

          • Spoob

            No, people have the right to fall in love. You don’t get to deny people that very basic right.

          • Gary

            Nobody has the right to engage in homosexuality. According to the Bible.

          • Spoob

            According to your rigid, bitter, twisted interpretation of one small piece of the Bible.

          • Gary

            Hey, I didn’t write the Bible. If you don’t agree with what it says, that is a problem between you and God.

          • Spoob

            The Bible also talks about talking snakes and donkeys. If you are going to be literal about everything, you should at least acknowledge that you believe in things that cannot possibly have happened.

          • Gary

            Do you consider yourself to be able to know which parts of the Bible are true, and which are not? If you do, then you have overestimated your abilities.

          • Spoob

            You are not a Bible scholar. You are a sad, hateful old bigot.

          • Gary

            Really? Can you tell me where in the New Testament I can find an endorsement of homosexuality? Because if you can, you can end my opposition to it.

          • Spoob

            Nice try, argument from silence (in this case, the Bible’s) and forcing me to be a Bible-only Christian, all in one message. Not playing your games, sorry.

          • Gary

            The Bible is not silent on homosexuality. And the Bible is THE guide for Christians to know what God wants them to believe, and how God wants them to live. Real Christians that is.

          • Spoob

            Are you really going to tell me that after all the thousands of years of translations, retranslations, mistranslations, and everything else the Bible has been through, it is specific about a practice that had no formal definition until 1869? You’re really going to tell me that? WOW. And considering mental health never really studied it very much until sometime in the last century, this vague reading of your is the true and accurate one?

          • Gary

            You have made it clear that you disregard the Bible. That alone proves you are not a Christian. It also proves your opinions about what God says or thinks about any subject are without foundation.

          • Spoob

            No, I have made it very clear that you do not understand the Bible, and use it as a tool of hatred and destruction to suit your own purposes.

          • Gary

            But you have offered no proof that the Bible confirms what you believe. If you are right about the Bible, it should be easy to offer Biblical evidence for it.

          • Spoob

            You do not seem to understand that I, like so many millions of other Chrustians, am not a Bible-only Christian. Therefore it is a waste of time for you to continually ask me for Biblical proof.

          • Gary

            Especially since the Bible contradicts what you say. Real Christians are “Bible-only Christians” because the Bible is our guide book on moral and theological issues.

          • Spoob

            No True Scotsman fallacy. You do not get to dictate who the true Christians are, especially since you are not one yourself.

          • pax2u

            Gary decides who is and who is not a true “christian”
            Does the Bible ever say “Bible-only” I could not find it in the Bible

          • Gary

            Are you a homosexual? Or just a carrier?

          • pax2u

            Gary I will pray for you, your hatred of Christians is consuming your eternal soul

          • Gary

            You won’t even deny you’re a sodomite?

          • pax2u

            Gary I am married my wife, who is a lady, and I have 3 kids, if you are looking for a gay hook up go to a gay website, sorry
            maybe your hatred of gays, is a bit of protesting too much, projecting your true feelings

          • Gary

            You do support homosexuals, don’t you??

          • pax2u

            I love the sinner and hate the sin

          • Frank

            And those professing to be Christians will be in for a rude awakening when Jesus tells them He never knew them and throws them into eternal torment.

          • Spoob

            Your paranoid revenge fantasy, your rules.

          • Frank

            God’s rules. He rules.

          • Spoob

            No. God doesn’t hate. You hate.

          • Frank

            There are 6 things God hates. And yes, God’s rules. God rules.

          • Spoob

            He hates angry fundamentalist Christians.

          • Frank

            God’s rules. God rules. I’m no better than you, but unless you stop sinning God won’t be letting you into heaven.

          • Spoob

            You are not God. You do not speak for God. Your judgements are not God’s judgements.

          • Frank

            God has revealed His judgements to many and has commissioned them to speak them to others in warning. Those that do not heed the warnings will be eternally lost and separated from God in heaven. And if you continue in your sinning you will be eternally separated from God in heaven.

          • Spoob

            Worry about your own sins, buddy, and stop judging others. You are not God.

          • Frank

            I am not God. He has revealed His judgements to me, though, as He has revealed them to many others. And as I have seen you claim to be a Christian I have perfect permission from God to speak certain judgements of God to you. And once again if you do not stop sinning you will not make it into heaven. Without holiness no one will see the Lord.

          • Frank

            You have broadcast your sins for the whole world to see, trampled as unholy the Son of God and thus remain unregenerate and out of fellowship with God and His church all the while falsely claiming you have fellowship. I do not stand as your judge but God does. And unless you stop sinning you will reap the wages of sin – eternal separation from God in heaven.

          • Spoob

            Positively the most self-righteous and hypocritical thing I have ever read from a fundamentalist Christian. You don’t know God, you don’t speak for God, you don’t know me or anyone else. Worry about your own sins. Confess your OWN sins and stop harrassing other people.

          • Frank

            By your own admission you do not know or trust God. If I said I didn’t know God I would be a liar. I know you by what you have revealed to me and what God has revealed to me. Beyond that I do not know you. You have come on here making certain claims and declarations in an open discussion forum. Rather than prance around the issues they have been brought right to the point dividing soul and spirit. We all must repent of our sins or not see eternal life with God in heaven. Some their sins proceed ahead of them such as you confessing yours here public ally on a public discussion forum. So, I plead with you, stop sinning. I would much like to be able to see you in heaven.

          • Gary

            You endorse and promote what is called sin in the Bible. You justify the unrighteous, and condemn those who are trying to follow what the Bible says. You raise your opinions so that you claim your opinions have more authority and more truth than does the Bible. You do everything atheists do, except you claim to believe in God. But the God you say you believe in is not the God of the Bible, or of Christianity.

          • Spoob

            By loving my neighbor and by not judging him I AM following the Bible. You are the one upholding hatred and you are judging, the very thing Jesus says NOT to do.

          • pax2u

            Gary has the special ability to decide who is a true “christian”
            even though the majority of American describe themselves as Christians, Gary has decided that only 8% are true “christians”

          • Spoob

            Gary needs to learn that he is not God.

          • pax2u

            I do not think that be believes in the Christian God Jesus Christ’s message of Love and Mercy

          • Spoob

            He believes in hate, intolerance and vengeance.

          • pax2u

            but he accepts the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church, very sad
            I wonder if Gary is really gay, and has a self hatred thing going on

          • James Grimes

            Christians, and I mean those who have the Lord and Savior in their hearts, will always consider the Bible as God’s infallible, inerrant, and absolute Word. Anything short of that is a farce.

          • James Grimes

            He can’t and won’t even try. His argument is lost.

          • KenS

            The very same bible tell us that Through God all things are possible, so if I believe that all things are possible with God, then of course I am going to believe that those things can happen.

          • Spoob

            A snake has no voice box. If you are going to tell me you believe in things that are physically impossible then I guess it’s so surprise you would willfully believe in things that are hateful and intolerant as well.

          • KenS

            Again, the Bible tells us that all things are possible with God, so that tells me that a snake does not need a voicebox with God in order to talk. I do not believe in anything that is hateful and intolerant, I have not said that in any of my posts!

          • Fundisi

            Actually they do have that right, it is called free will. Yet, they will suffer horribly for that choice unless they repent and find Christ before they die.

  • Spoob

    This is wonderful news. People are finally learning that they cannot mandate their hatred and bigotry against people over things they have no control over like their sexuality. It’s a shame they could not have also levied a huge punitive fine as well.

    • Nick_from_Detroit

      Don’t worry, I’m sure that the mayor and city will be sued, forthwith.
      And, deservedly so.

      • Spoob

        And they will lose. You cannot, when in a position of authority such as his, be mandating hatred – it is in clear violation of ethics.

        • Nick_from_Detroit

          He mandated no “hatred.” He only expressed his Christian beliefs, which is protected speech under two clauses of the First Article of Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.
          Just because you work for the civil government doesn’t mean you lose your free-speech and free-exercise rights.

          • Spoob

            How then do you explain the fact that so many Christians do not make the same claims against homosexuals? If his religion mandates hatred or intolerance against a group who are not breaking any laws, then he has no leg to stand on. And last time I checked it was not illegal to be a homosexual..

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Because, some Christians choose to ignore, or rewrite, what is written in the Sacred Scriptures.
            Your next statements are straw men, as, again, his religion doesn’t mandate hatred or intolerance and I never asserted that it was illegal to be a homosexual. Next.

          • Spoob

            So then your interpretation is the correct one, and all the other Christians who refuse to judge, as JESUS commands, are wrong?

            No strawman involved. As a public figure he cannot endorse hate to the people he serves and protects. His personal beliefs do not trump the law. Next.

          • Gary

            God has already judged homosexuals to be immoral, and already passed sentence on them. Christians think God made the right decision.

          • Spoob

            If you believe that, then it is God’s judgement to make. Not yours. You are not God, and you fundamentalist types need to be reminded of this over and over for some reason.

          • Gary

            Pay attention. I just said God already judged homosexuals to be immoral. Do you not understand that?

          • Spoob

            I happen to think you are wrong about that, and not of perfectly sound mind.

          • Gary

            Opinions vary.

          • Fundisi

            Read John 7:24

          • Spoob

            I did.

          • Fundisi

            You are wrong, we are to make righteous judgments, to discern between good and evil. You do not know God or His Word.

          • Spoob

            You are to do no such thing. What you consider righteous many people, myself included, consider to be inhumane and sick.

          • Gary

            You don’t get to define right and wrong. God alone has the authority to do that.

          • Spoob

            And neither do you. And neither does Kelvin Cochran.

          • Gary

            I don’t define right or wrong. God does.

          • Spoob

            Well then, why are you trying to override God’s opinion with your own?

          • Gary

            I agree with God’s decision.

          • Spoob

            You won’t when you find out God doesn’t hate homosexuals.

          • Gary

            According to both the Old and New Testaments, God does not allow homosexual behavior. Should I believe you, or the Bible? Let me see…. I think I’ll believe the Bible instead of you.

          • James Grimes

            I think the Bible contains more wisdom than this clown does.

          • Spoob

            You should be listening to science, you know, since they have PROOF and everything, but by all means, listen to your bronze age hate and nonsense.

          • Gary

            Since God defines morality, science has nothing to contribute to that discussion.

          • Spoob

            This is not God’s morality, it is yours, and you are putting God’s face on it.

          • Gary

            If it isn’t God’s morality, then why is it in the Bible?

          • Spoob

            Nice try. God does not say to hate on homosexuals.

          • Gary

            How could you know that when you say the Bible is silent on homosexuality? What proof can you offer that your statement is true?

          • Gary

            Since you don’t care what is written in the Bible, how do you know what God’s opinion is?

          • Spoob

            Common sense. There is no basis for God to have any issue what goes on between two consenting adults who love one another.

          • Gary

            According to the Bible, there is a basis for God to have an issue with people who commit adultery and fornicate. see Matthew 15:19, 1 Cor. 6:9-10, Exodus 20:14 as examples.

          • Spoob

            Monogamous homosexual relationships are neither fornication nor adultery.

          • Gary

            Prove it.

          • Fundisi

            Gary is right – it is God alone that decides what is righteous, not you and not me. When you say many people think it is inhumane and sick, you mean mostly gays, atheists and liberals, almost all of who are practical atheists.

            God says, in John 7, “24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” So we are to judge good and evil, not hypocritically, nor judging one as deserving physical death, but to warn then of what God calls evil that some might repent and find salvation. So again you are wrong, we are to make righteous judgments, based on His Word. But, your being an atheist you will never accept God’s Word.

          • Spoob

            I don’t disagree that it’s God alone who decides, and yet you and Gary keep insisting that it’s your way or the highway.

            And if you want the truth, you are doing exactly what John 7:24 says NOT to. You are judging by appearances. Hardly what I would call a “righteous judgement”. You don’t understand the first thing about homosexuals. In fact, I have yet to meet one of you who can seem to understand that they really truly love each other. But all you see is lust. Of course when you’re so blind to what is really going on you’re getting opposition from everyone, including reasonable Christians.

          • Gary

            What does the New Testament say about what we now call homosexuality?

          • Gary

            Spoob does not care what the Bible says.

          • Fundisi

            “24 Judge not according to the appearance, but [we are to] judge righteous judgment.”

            I hope you will understand and agree that what an atheist considers a righteous judgment is irrelevant for any true Christian. No Christian can or should be guided by your unchristian opinions. Further, what you consider reasonable Christians means those that are liberal minded on such issues, they being practical atheists. So, you will pardon me if what you, an atheist, considers reasonable, is not my standard.

            It all depends on what you, an atheist, considers love. God condemns homosexual conduct, which includes in the mind, as being worthy of everlasting separation from Him in hell. It is not love to engage in that conduct and by it to lead a precious soul into hell; and by the way, God also condemns those that tolerate sexual immorality. So, to understand love, only God’s definition and standard can be applied by His children and thus when we say such love is not the Love of God, we are making a right judgment.

            We do understand that you are an anti-Christian bigot.

          • Gary

            Just as God does not excuse adultery between a man and a woman because the couple “loves each other”, neither does God excuse homosexuality for that reason.

          • Spoob

            No. In an adulterous situation one party is being hurt and betrayed. In a monogamous homosexual relationship no one is being hurt. God would not object.

          • Gary

            But you have no proof. You are making statements that contradict the Bible, so your statements have no proof.

          • Spoob

            I am contradicting YOU, not the Bible.

          • Gary

            YOu are contradicting Mark 10:6-8, 1 Cor. 6:9-10, 1Cor. 7:2

          • Spoob

            You have all those verses entirely out of context.

          • Gary

            Prove it.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            “Hate” is your biased, and bigoted, term.
            Mr. Cochran is free to express his opinions and beliefs no matter how many straw men you erect, Spoob.
            You’re probably the first one to denounce “McCarthy-ism” and the Hollywood blacklist, aren’t you? Yet, you would deny Mr. Cochran his job simply for publishing a book?

          • Spoob

            He says things he simply cannot be allowed to say for someone holding the position he does. If it comes across in any way as an endorsement from the government he represents then he is unfit for public office, it’s just that simple. No strawmen involved. If you serve and protect gay people, which he does, then he isn’t permitted to hate or judge them. I’m sorry you don’t like this situation but it cannot be otherwise unless we start to live in a Fundamentalist Christian theocracy.

          • Gary

            A Fundamentalist Christian Theocracy is coming to a city near you.

          • Spoob

            I’m not concerned. Common sense, peace and kindness will prevail over hatred.

          • Gary

            Christ is coming back. When he does, he will take over.

          • Spoob

            And won’t you be surprised to find out that Christ isn’t a fundie?

          • Gary

            I already know He is. LOL. If you are not already in Hell when he arrives, you are the one who will be shocked. And dismayed.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Mr. Cochran didn’t violate the constitution, the mayor did.
            Just because you work for the civil government doesn’t mean you lose your free-speech & free-expression rights.
            You are just spouting liberal claptrap and straw men.

          • Spoob

            No, Mr. Cochran violated the constitution. When your free speech calls for hating, killing and demonizing others and you are in a government position, you forfeit your right to represent people.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            More straw men. Mr. Cochran didn’t call for any of those things.

          • Spoob

            Can I just ask you if you know what a straw man is? Because yes, Mr. Cochran DOES want those things.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            You can read Mr. Cochran’s mind? He’s made statements calling for any of what you falsely asserted he did. It is your bigotry against Christians that blinds you to these facts. God Bless!

          • Fundisi

            That is a lie, The Chief did not call for hating, killing or demonizing anyone.

          • James Grimes

            Nick, did you see this? “No, Mr. Cochran violated the constitution.” I would love to see this clown prove this statement.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Yes, I did, Mr. Grimes.
            I replied, “More straw men…”
            He responded with, “Can I just ask you….”
            I countered with, “You can read Mr. Cochran’s mind?…”
            These long threads get almost impossible to follow, don’t they?
            God Bless!

          • Fundisi

            Again you are wrong in every way:

            1. As a citizen, the 1st Amendment protects him in his right to religious expression, no matter the place.
            2. He submitted the book to the ethics officer, whom approved.
            3. There is nothing – I mean NOTHING to indicate that despite his faith he does not serve and protect every citizen, even gays, the same.
            4. As a Christian he has NOT expressed any hate for gays nor engaged in judging any specific person, but only saying how God looks at all sin generally.
            5. There is nothing to prevent this Fire Chief from privately, even in written form expressing his beliefs.
            6. Your hatred for all Christians and especially Fundamentalist Christians is your right, but only exposes your own hate and bias and bigotry.

          • Spoob

            Well, too bad the supreme court disagrees with you, never mind every reasonable human being on earth.

            When his “religious expression” calls for the rights of others to go into the toilet, and especially when he holds public office, he’s crossed the line.

          • Fundisi

            The Supreme Court used to favor black people as only being a 2/3 citizen, were they wrong? Since 1962, the Supreme Court has turned its back on the 1st Amendment and although those anti-Christ decisions become the law, it does not make it right.

            There is NO WAY this Chief is denying anyone their rights, no not even gays. You are again wrong.

          • James Grimes

            Spob has not read the book, but is commenting on what is in the book. Isn’t that arrogant?

          • Gary

            It would be illegal if I had my way. And one day, I will.

          • Spoob

            Don’t hold your breath. We live in a democracy, not a theocracy.

          • Gary

            A theocracy is coming. World-wide.

          • Spoob

            Who are you trying to convince, you or me?

          • Gary

            I am already convinced. And I don’t care what you believe.

          • Spoob

            I DO care what YOU believe, it is so completely out of control, hateful and scary that people would be well advised to keep a close eye on you and all the other zealots.

          • Gary

            Your future is something to fear.

          • BarkingDawg

            Publishing the book was not the reason he was fired.

            Doing so without permission, and then distributing copies of the book to his subordinates is what got him in trouble.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            That’ll be a matter for a court to decide.

          • Gary

            No, having beliefs that contradict those of the mayor is why he was fired.

      • BarkingDawg

        Did you notice how they had a 30 day suspension in there?

        That tells me that the city had to follow a strict procedure as per whatever contractual obligations are involved.

        The city lawyers are not stupid. They know how to fire someone in accordance with the law.

        • Nick_from_Detroit

          Lawyers violate the law all the time. And, liberals are always willing to violate the law in order to push their ideology on others.

        • Gary

          No use in wasting time with the legal system, which is corrupt. Use other means.

          • BarkingDawg

            What other means?

            Be specific.

    • Gary

      Everyone has the right, given to them by God Almighty, to oppose homosexuality, and discriminate against homosexuals and against those who enable homosexuals and promote them. I exercise that right every day.

      • BarkingDawg

        Just because you are a hate filled bigot, does not require that the city be run by hate filed bigots as well.

        • Gary

          People who hate Christians, like mayor reed, are bigots too. Did you not know that? You are a bigot as well.

          • Spoob

            Who is stomping on whose rights here? How come every time one of you fundamentalists screams about your religious freedom being suppressed, it’s due to your standing up for your right to treat some other people like garbage?

          • Gary

            God gave me the right to oppose homosexuals. I exercise that right often and with enthusiasm. And it pleases me that you don’t like it.

          • Spoob

            You will end up in jail one day.

          • Gary

            Maybe. But you will end up in Hell one day..

          • Spoob

            Let’s leave that up to God, shall we?

          • Gary

            Of course. God is the only One with the ability to put you in Hell. And He has some very good reasons for putting you there.

          • Spoob

            Me? You are the one hating his creations.

          • pax2u

            aren’t the true “christians” pleasant deciding the eternal fate of Christians

          • Gary

            You are the same kind of “Christian” spoob is: false.

          • pax2u

            I am a Christian and worship the Christian God Jesus Christ
            I pray that you also worship Jesus Christ, and do not lie about Real Christians

          • pax2u

            Gary you never answered this question

            “so if you are always saved, but have an obligation to live righeously, will you still sin, or are you now with out sin, if you then sin do you have to confess, and then is that “works”?”

          • Gary

            That is a subject that is only of concern to Christians. You should concern yourself with things that involve unbelievers.

          • pax2u

            then I pray to my Christian God Jesus Christ that some day you shall become a Christian

          • Gary

            Work your beads.

          • pax2u

            I will ask my Christian God Jesus Christ my personal Lord and Savior to forgive you of your hatred of Christians
            do not allow your anger to consume your eternal soul
            have a blessed day my Christian Brother

          • Gary

            I am not your brother. You would have to be a Christian for that to be true.

          • pax2u

            probably not, my family are Christians

            sad that you could not answer this question

            “so if you are always saved, but have an obligation to live righeously, will you still sin, or are you now with out sin, if you then sin do you have to confess, and then is that “works”?”
            maybe you are not sure if you are REALLY saved?
            I ask you to pray for me as I will pray to my Christian God Jesus Christ my personal Lord and Savior for you, amen

          • pax2u

            I understand that the question was too difficult for you
            I will pray to my Christian God Jesus Christ for you

          • KenS

            I will answer this for you. You are to live righteously because of your love for the God that forgave you of your sins and saved you from hell. If you misstep and sin, then you are confess your sins for forgiveness from God’s chastisement here on earth, if you do not confess the new sins after your salvation, you will still go to heaven, you will only lose some of your rewards in heaven. So no it is not then works because the work was already done by Christ when he died on the cross. You are not doing anything to regain any lost salvation, therefore it is not a work.

          • pax2u

            lose some of your rewards in heaven? what is that?
            where is that in the Christian Bible?

            are there different rewards or levels in Heaven, sounds Mormon

            In Mormon theology, there are three degrees of glory (alternatively, kingdoms of glory) which are the ultimate, eternal dwelling place for nearly all who lived on earth after the Spirit world.

            I did not know Gary was a mormon, I thought that he was a Baptist

            also sounds kinda like Buddhism

          • KenS

            For one it was not gary who made the rewards comment it was me. Secondly, in 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 it says “If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” the book of revelations discuss crowns that will be used to worship Jesus in heaven, and paul discusses getting different crowns in his epistles, there are 5 different crowns that Christians will be rewarded with in heaven to worship Christ with and I believe these are the rewards we will receive or lose

          • pax2u

            I apologize
            my argument is with the concept of Once Saved Always Saved, which I do not agree with
            I was once told that with OSAS all future sins are forgiven and that all sins are equal,
            I asked if a person is OSAS if they then will fully murder and do not ask for God’s forgiveness are they still saved, and receive eternal salvation?
            what is your opinion?

          • KenS

            My opinion is if they were truly saved before committing the murder and they do not ask for forgiveness, then they are still saved, but will receive chastisement from God while still alive on earth until they ask for said forgiveness and then when they either die or are raptured, then when they face Jesus in the Judgment seat of Christ, which happens when they go heaven, they will lose some of their rewards that they would have received if they had not sinned and not asked for forgiveness. If they do ask for forgiveness, and accept responsibility for their actions, meaning taking their earthly punishment from the government, etc…, then when they get to heaven, all their work they have done since their salvation and the forgiven murder will still receive rewards from Christ. I Corinthians 3:11-15 explains this in detail.

          • pax2u

            what if they die shortly after they murder, no time to ask forgiveness, and no chastisement from God on Earth?
            losing some of their rewards sounds like purgatory
            I sometimes think that the OSAS think that asking for forgiveness sounds to much like works, too Catholic

          • KenS

            then your death alone is your chastisement from God, and you have not done anymore works to try and gain any more rewards for anyways, it would be no different than cursing as a car hits you and kills you, that sin has been paid for as far as heaven or hell is concerned

          • pax2u

            when a very holy person dies I do not think they see their death as their chastisement from God, I would think that they would see it as a beautiful moment to be with their Lord
            to use an extreme example if a person who says that they are Once Saved Always Saved willfully murders a bus load of children and commits suicide, I do not think that they will be accepted into Heaven,
            but that is my theology

          • KenS

            The death is not meant as a chastisement as much as it is to protect his testimony, God calls the sinner home before his lifestyle harms his testimony for Christ so badly that he is no longer able to help bring more souls to Christ, in fact, he has become a hindrance to soul winning.

          • pax2u

            I can not accept that someone can call themselves a Saved Christian and will fully murder, not ask forgiveness then be accept to Heaven, can a Saved Christian be a Terrorist suicide bomber and be accepted to Heaven?
            It sounds like the Muslims being allowed to kill an infidel and going to paradise and receiving his 72 virgins

          • KenS

            you will find that there will be many people in heaven that you never thought would be. Grace = Mercy that is not deserved….

          • pax2u

            there are probably just as many who are convinced that they are saved and are not

          • KenS

            yes, u are correct

          • pax2u

            I believe that only God knows who is saved

          • KenS

            So do I

          • pax2u

            so you do not accept Once Saved Always Saved?

          • KenS

            Huh? how do you get that? I believe that God only knows a man’s heart, but a person that is saved stays saved

          • pax2u

            if only God knows who is saved, how can anyone know if the are really saved

          • KenS

            Really!, it is between God and the person. Are you really that daft to believe that the person is not able to know if he is saved or not? God knows the person’s heart and the person knows his own heart, no one else knows.

          • pax2u

            so those who are saved do not sin?
            If they sin can a saved Christian be a suicide bomber terrorist and go to Heaven?

          • KenS

            No, you can still sin as a christian, but if you do sin and do not feel the holy spirit’s conviction, most likely you are not saved. I john 1: 8-10 make this clear, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” This clearly shows us that if we are saved, (his word is in us when we are saved, John 1:1 tells us that Jesus is the Word), then we cannot say that we do not sin.

          • pax2u

            then no one knows if they are “really” saved,

          • KenS

            yes, they do, IF they have put their full trust in Jesus’ death on the cross paying for their sins and his resurrection the victory over death and sin, and only on that, not any works of their own, then they can know that they are saved, 1 John 5:13 tells us “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” You can know that you are saved.

          • pax2u

            so a once saved always saved can be a suicide bombing terrorist like a Islamic terrorist and be received into paradise

          • KenS

            I have answered and explained this question that you have posed in several differing scenarios where you are playing devil’s advocate and am through with dealing with you on this issue.

          • pax2u

            Once Saved Always Saved is much like the Muslim belief that to lie to infidels and to kill infidels is permitted because those sins are already forgiven by their God and that a suicide terrorist will receive paradise or eternal salvation,

          • pax2u

            if I murder someone after I have salvation what rewards do I lose in Heaven?

          • James Grimes

            Gary, BarkingDawg and Spoob (great names aren’t they? they want to hide who they really are) will oppose anything Christian and anything that God has commanded. Where is their moral framework? It doesn’t exist.

          • Gary

            They disagree with what God has said, no doubt.

          • dark477

            No just the commands that goes against our society.

          • James Grimes

            Geez, I’m not interested in Atheists’ opinions.

          • dark477

            Your god has no authority in a civilized secular society. So any rights you think your god gives you are irrelevant.

          • pax2u

            remember that some of the true “christians” here also support the Westboro Baptist Church, no naming names, just saying

          • Gary

            If you would like to try to keep me from exercising the rights given to me by God, then give it a try. I promise to make you never try it again.

          • dark477

            What are you going to kill me?

          • KenS

            how does listing homosexuality as a sin alongside adultery, murder, stealing and other sins equate to treating some people like garbage?

          • Spoob

            Because how on earth is two people falling in love sinful? Who is being hurt? What great wrong is being committed?

          • Gary

            Marriage is heterosexual only in the Bible.

      • James Grimes

        Gary, not only is it a right, but it is an obligation to oppose sinful behavior.

        • Gary

          You are right James.

  • BarkingDawg

    When you have a position of responsibility in a workplace, one of your duties is to see that you do not do anything that will increase your employers liability to lawsuits.

    This is basic stuff.

    Also: “get it in writing!”

    If you ask for permission to engage in an outside pursuit that may reflect back on your job, get it in writing.

  • BarkingDawg

    Let’s recap, shall we?

    1. The chief is a senior management official. Thus any of his actions that can reflect negatively on the city are subject to review and approval

    2. He failed to get said approval.

    3. He distributed copies of the book to his subordinates. Thus creating a hostile work environment. Thus exposing the city to legal liability.

    4. The city suspended him pending an investigation. After which, based on the findings of the investigation, they terminated his contract.

    • dark477

      You left out the part were he said he would keep proselytize at work once is suspension was lifted.

  • robertzaccour

    It seems to me that he was fired for no real reason. I didn’t read anything about what he wrote in his personal time having any impact on his job or anything in relation to the workplace. It looks like the chief is being discriminated against here.

  • Gary

    mayor reed said the chief expressed opinions that were unacceptable to him, and that is why he was fired. It did not have to involve a book. The opinions of the chief could have been expressed anywhere, even in Sunday School, and the mayor would have taken the same position. So it is WHAT the chief said that reed fired him for.

  • Gary

    Since mayor reed fired Chief Cochran for believing and saying that homosexuality is sinful, could he not fire anyone else who is employed by the city of Atlanta for the same thing? If there are any Christians who work for the city, they attend churches that oppose homosexuals. And just by their public action of attending church, they are making a public statement of their opposition to homosexuality.

    • SFBruce

      You’re making a leap which is simply not supported by the facts. Cochran wasn’t fired for his religious beliefs, he was fired following being suspended for publishing a book which contained information which ran counter to Atlanta’s anti-discriminatory policies. He was told to refrain from public comment during an investigation, something he did not do. Not only did he not remain silent, but he made it clear he intended to continue to speak out, regardless of the consequences. He claims that the city’s ethics officer gave him verbal approval for publishing his book, but the mayor claims that never happened. As a result, Cochran was fired. He’s still perfectly free to follow the dictates of his conscience, say whatever he wants and to publish whatever he wants.

      • Gary

        All Christians have beliefs that run counter to Atlanta’s policies. Identifying themselves as Christians is a public admittance of the fact. Any employee of the city of Atlanta who is a Christian is in conflict with the policies of the mayor. If he can fire Cochran, he can fire any other Christian who works for Atlanta.

        • SFBruce

          Again, the facts don’t support your claim that “all Christians” agree with Cochran on homosexuality. Every poll I’ve seen shows Christians are increasingly supportive of LGBT equality, including marriage. Of course, I know that there’s a significant number who share your views, but there’s just no credible evidence that Christians working for the city of Atlanta are under any threat.

          • Gary

            You don’t know what a Christian is. There are many fake Christians, as the Bible says to expect. No real Christian would support what God calls sin. Mayor reed might not fire any more Christians, if there are any that work for Atlanta. My point is, that all real Christians oppose homosexuality and that is the reason reed fired Cochran. If reed fired Cochran for that, then he could do the same to any other Atlanta employee who opposes homosexuality.

      • BarkingDawg

        Furthermore, he distributed that book to his subordinates. . . .

        not a smart move, by any means.

    • BarkingDawg

      Wrong. the Chief was fired for failure to follow the rules that the city requires that people in positions of authority within the city government follow.

      • Gary

        You are wrong. Did you even read the article? Reed admitted he fired him because he opposes homosexuality.

        • BarkingDawg

          No. He was fired for failure to follow protocols and procedures. The reason given by Reed.

          Furthermore, if Reed decided that all city departments are to adhere to a non-discrimination policy, and if the head of one of those departments is unable to comply with that policy, then it is within the Reed’s prerogative to fire him.

  • Cynthia Taylor

    Why is telling the truth about what the bible says and giving your opinion about what you think is discrimination. I feel like telling you what you can and cannot say is discrimination. What happen to freedom of speech? Why is it ok to talk negative and lie on the President, but you can’t tell the truth when it comes to what the bible says.

    • BarkingDawg

      The chief is — strike that, — was in a position of command and supervision.

      therefore, the city set down certain rules he had to follow. He failed to follow these rules.

      they fired him.

      simple.

  • ppp777

    If he is not an antichrist then he has just done a great imitation of one , what a gut wrenching hypricrit , america is surely now under judgement .

  • ppp777

    If he is not an antichrist , then he is doing a brilliant imitation of one , he is one gut wrenching hypricrit .

  • Lizzie

    So should you loose your job because you obviously disagree with the lifestyle of a Christian? Even though you have treated them with respect and equity as their superior. If you got fired because you disagreed publicly in a book that Christians were closed minded, hypocritical and evil, would that not be the same thing that happened to this ex-Fire Chief? How can you say this Mayor is justified? Discrimination at any level is wrong. This Fire Chief was fired because of his religious beliefs. That’s a classic example of discrimination.
    Personally I would sue and I would win!!!

    • BarkingDawg

      no. the fire chief was fired because he broke several rules related to the performance of his job.

      • Gary

        He was fired because he won’t support homosexuals.

        • BarkingDawg

          He was fired because he did not follow proper procedures.

          Furthermore, his actions exposed the city to a liability that they did not want to be exposed to.

  • Lizzie

    The article stated that He was given permission to publish the book, so Cochran was in the right to do so and he was NOT in violation of any ethics. Now if Cochran had mistreated someone because of their moral beliefs, he should be fired.
    Sorry, BarkingDog you need to read the article little more carefully.
    See below, excerpt from article;

    But Cochran said the he indeed did seek out the ethics officer prior to publishing the book, and not only was he granted permission to proceed, but he was also allowed to include in his biography that he served as the fire chief of Atlanta. He said that he gave a copy of the publication to Reed in January 2014—nearly a year before the controversy erupted—and was told by the mayor that he would read it.

    Cochran says that he should be able to express his views without punishment, regardless of who agrees or disagrees.

    “The LGBT members of our community have a right to be able to express their views and convictions about sexuality and deserve to be respected for their position without hate or discrimination,” he told reporter Todd Starnes. “But Christians also have a right to express our belief regarding our faith and be respected for our position without hate and without discrimination. In the United States, no one should be vilified, hated or discriminated against for expressing their beliefs.”

    The former fire chief subsequently advised that he does not hate or discriminate against anyone.

    “There’s not any person of any people group that has interacted with me for any measure of time that can say I have hate or disregard or discrimination in my heart for any people group,” he explained.

  • Lizzie

    Do you people really hate Christians that much, that you can justify this Mayor?
    You call us a bunch of hypocrites? I think you need a few lesson in tolerance and love, yourselves. At least we love you enough to warn you about what will happen after you die without forgiveness for your sin through Christ Jesus and the rebirth.
    As Christian, we know that Jesus stated in the bible;
    “If they (meaning the unsaved) hated me, they will hate you for my name sake”
    So, we expect your hatred toward us, but we still love you!

    • BarkingDawg

      It has nothing to do with being a Christian, it has to do with him doing his job.

      His job requires that he not discriminate.

      His job requires that he not create a hostile work environment.

      His job requires that he get written permission for all outside activities or ventures that could negatively impact the city.

      How hard is that to understand?

      If he wants to be a preacher, then fine, let him quit being a firefighter and become a preacher.

      If he wants to be a fireman, then he needs to quit being a preacher and be a firefighter.

      The consequences of him not being 100% focused on being a firefighter can be deadly.

      How can anyone in the city trust his judgement now?

  • BarkingDawg

    The fact that Cochran distributed the book to his subordinates created a hostile work environment.

    The city was smart to get rid of him.

  • BarkingDawg

    Be careful what you wish for, people of Georgia.

    There are plenty of other states that would love to see Delta move it’s hub out of Atlanta to their state.

  • ppp777

    Why are my posts not getting though ?

    • BarkingDawg

      That one did.

      Disqus can get Squirrelly now and then.

  • BarkingDawg

    “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

    Why is it that some people can not keep their secular life separate from their spiritual life?

    Further, why are they so surprised when things don’t go their way when they are unable to keep the two concepts separate?

  • James Grimes

    Mayor Reed is on the hot seat now. The people of Georgia are not taking the firing with any confidence. There will be a rally at the statehouse today.

  • John Mark IB

    folks this man should be able to sue the devil out of these people!! in a normal world he might ?? wait did I say normal, ok here’s the deal according to the new moral majority of the moral relativism: (with all sarcasm of course here’s my take) in supposed free country this man is guilty of and committed the crime of 1) freedom of expression he expressed his views in a public way in a book, guilty of 2) freedom of press he printed a book, and you all can fill in the blanks with helping me out here ok!! haha seriously, he’s on trial for going against the new morality in society it’s now homosexual law is legal any form, (well, almost that’s coming soon watch for it next it will be pedophilia legalized as they too will be born that way and just can’t help it) and so when sin becomes legal then guess what ? Christianity becomes illegal as it is now judges overturning our legal votes to traditional marriage, etc., hey when it’s legal to murder totally innocent unborn babies in a cruel manner almost until the full term what do you expect? they love evil therefore their deeds were/are evil and the world loves it’s own, we need to give him our prayers and support, please,this is utter insanity truly times are short, to think it happened in Georgia of all places so much for the Bible belt
    here’s hope pass it on pray for him and for GOD to save and have mercy on the already spoiled rotten America we have taken for granted that we once knew maybe gone forever more as we fade into the sands of time towards the end times and the NWO coming soon etc., thanks be to GOD for His Mercies and taking us outta here!! soon
    GOD bless you with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen thanks for allowing me to post here and for this forum to express free opinions here 🙂
    and for these sites to go forth hopefully get people saved!!
    http://faithsaves.net
    http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36
    http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com
    http://www.discoverthebible.org

  • John Mark IB

    who here can see the next logical upside down trend in the new morality and sexual revolution so called? any one wanna make a friendly wager no bets haha that the next step will be for the pedophiles to get the age of consent laws lowered then to legalize pedophilia as a natural thing it’s just right there on the doorstep knocking saying let me in I’m next ” me too,me too” “I’m next” n line with all of the stuff going on here it comes, so they’ll be considered as being born that way and can’t help it, it’ll become the law of the land men marrying little boys and girls and it’ll be normal?? think I’m wrong? I can only pray that I’m wrong!! but it’s the trend and as the world goes so goes the false churches contemporary falling away it’s all good go along with it salt less flavorless Godless Christianity gutless spineless too sad but it’s coming it’s here go to jail for being Christian well guess we’ve truly been spoiled never really been put into the coliseum to the fight for our small weak faith?? here’s hope

    http://faithsaves.net/truth-for-gay-friends/

    http://faithsaves.net

    http://www.pillarandgrounf.org/home/?page_id=36

    http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com