‘Pope’ Visits Buddhist Temple in Sri Lanka, Sees Relics from Buddha’s Disciples

Pope_FrancisCOLOMBO, Sri Lanka — The pontiff of the Roman Catholic religion visited a Buddhist temple in the capital of Sri Lanka on Wednesday at the invitation of the head of a prominent Buddhist organization in the country.

Francis made a last minute stop to the Agrashravaka Temple at the bidding of head monk Banagala Upatissa, who also leads the Mahabodi Society. Upatissa had met the pontiff at the airport upon his arrival in the country and extended the invitation.

During the roughly 20-minute visit to the Buddhist temple, Francis listened as the monks chanted and prayed, and also opened a container of relics that pertain to two of the disciples of Buddha to show them to the pontiff. The relics are customarily opened and placed on display once a year, and followers of the Buddhist religion will line up for days to catch sight of them.

Vatican spokemen state that Francis did not pray with the monks, but did take off his shoes as required.

“There was not a time of silence in this sense,” Joseph Lombardi told reporters. “I can only say the pope was listening with great respect, and listening also to the prayer of the monk showing the relics and this was all.”

A statue of Buddha was also present in the room, and in addition to receiving gifts from the monks during his visit, the pontiff stood for group photographs with those at the temple.

Francis becomes the second pope in the history of Roman Catholicism to visit a Buddhist temple. John Paul II had done so in 1984 during a trip to Thailand, a predominantly Buddhist country. Sri Lanka is approximately 70 percent Buddhist, 13 percent Hindu, 10 percent Muslim and 7 percent Roman Catholic.

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The visit takes place just two months after the pontiff visited the Blue Mosque in Turkey, expressing reverence during a moment of prayer observed by the nation’s grand mufti, who led him on a tour of the Islamic facility.

But some are concerned about these ongoing developments, and state that the pope’s actions are unbiblical.

“If [Roman Catholics] were Christians, they would heed the Scriptures that say don’t yoke together with unbelievers,” Erick Rothbeck of Scriptural Truth for Roman Catholics told Christian News Network. “What fellowship hath the Kingdom of God with the kingdom of darkness?”

“The whole objective of the pope going around and associating with all these different false religions is to have ecumenical unity between them,” he continued. “It’s just one more sign of the last days that Jesus is coming soon, because this is the culmination, I believe, of the one world church of the antichrist. In order for that to come together, these things have to take place.”

Rothbeck said that while he believes these developments point to the soon-coming return of Christ, he also is saddened for those who are walking what the Bible calls the wide path to destruction.

“It just grieves your heart,” he stated. “The Bible says that in the last days they won’t listen to sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers having itching ears, and they shall turn their ears from the truth and shall be turned to fables.”

Rothbeck explained that the Christian response to reports of these occurrences should be to work all the more to spread the gospel.

“[H]ow much more should we be soldiers for Christ and earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered unto the saints and tell others about the true one and only apostolic gospel of salvation by grace through faith alone,” he said. “The Bible says that a time is coming when the word of God will be so scarce that it will be like a starvation because so few churches are actually presenting the gospel. They’re more worried about the ecumenical movement—being one together. … And it’s those that are earnestly contending for the faith that will be blessed in the sight of God.”

 

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  • Oboehner

    “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.”
    Ephesians 5:11

    • Spoob

      Judge not, lest ye be judged.

      • Fundisi

        You are taking that passage out of context, we Christians are called to make righteous judgments against evil.

        • Spoob

          Then why are you going after this Pope, who is being lauded by practically everyone in the world for clamping down on ignorance, hatred and stupidity?

          • Guest

            The pope, is not a bIblibally based concept. The Roman Catholic church is the harlot from revelations.

          • Spoob

            That is a tired old fundamentalist Christian lie.

          • Pieter Ulrich Fischer

            The pope is not a Biblical supported doctrine. The papacy and the Roman Catholic church is the harlot from revelations.

          • Spoob

            Peter was the first pope. There’s your Biblical supported doctine.

          • Pieter Ulrich Fischer

            No he wasn’t. There is no mention is sound Biblical scripture that he was a pope with any powers of any kind. Its a lie they told over generations

          • Spoob

            They have apostolic succession to prove it.

          • James Grimes

            Spoob is in denial.

        • James Grimes

          People who do not know the Bible usually quote this verse (Matthew 7:1) out of ignorance.

  • gregkliebigsr

    OH, FATHER GOD IN HEAVEN CAN’T FIND ANOTHER god ,CAUES HE IS THE ONLY ONE!!

    All of the hundreds of hindu gods , the buddah and allah are all familiar spirits, demons from satan !

    • Terry Roll

      Satan or Lucifer?

  • gregkliebigsr

    Deuteronomy 5 :7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me!

    THE ONE GOD YAHWEH HAS SAID THAT , I will not argue this matter with any man! Take it up with MY FATHER GOD!

    If you are in doubt ask HIS SON YESHUA (JESUS) JOHN 14:6 HIS words, they be in red! and besides all that islam garbage came 700 years after the RESURRECTION OF THE LORD JESUS! FOLKS!

    YOUR UNBELIEF AND REBELLION ARE JUST ABOUT TO MAKE FATHER VERY MAD AND ANGRY!

    SO, there will be no more satan (lucifer), no allah, no more buddha, no more false gods of the hindus; NO MORE DEMONS FROM HELL WHO ARE STEALING WORSHIP AND GLORY FROM THE ONE AND ONLY GOD , YESHUA!!

    Zephaniah 2:11. The Lord will be terrible unto them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth; and men shall worship him, every one from his place, even all the isles of the

    heathen.

  • gregkliebigsr

    I am the YHWH: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    Isaiah 42: 8. I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    Exodus 23:13 And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

    _________________________

    Romans 14: 11. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

    Philippians 2: 9. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

    10. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

    11. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    _________________________

    Romans 14: 11. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

    Philippians 2: 9. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

    10. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

    11. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    Romans 14: 11. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

    Philippians 2: 9. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

    10. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

    11. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    ———————————

    satan , allah, buddha, lao tzu, lord krisna, and all the hundreds of hindu gods ARE ALL FALSE demon gods (spirits) FROM THE BOWELS OF HELL, USED BY satan (in these religions) TO DESTROY HUMANS , WHO GOD MADE AND LOVES VERY MUCH!

    • Nick_from_Detroit

      Saint Paul, in Athens, spoke to pagans and quoted pagan writers:

      22 So Paul, standing in the middle of the Are-opagus, said: “Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, ‘To an unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. 24* The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man, 25 nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything. 26 And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us, 28* for ‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your poets have said, ‘For we are indeed his offspring.’
      – Acts 17

      God Bless!

      • Fundisi

        That is quite a bad habit of yours, misusing scripture. He preached to them the reality of Almighty God to lead some to the Gospel of Salvation, he was not trying to build bridges with them in some ecumenical spirit.

        • pax2u

          like lying about the prophecy of Jesus that st Peter would be “hung” upside down, which is not in the Bible? when you posted that as Neiman, that type of misusing scripture?

        • James Grimes

          Oh oh, he’s ranting again about the same crap he was ranting about two weeks ago. People of low intelligence usually have a one track mind. There isn’t any room in that brain for anything else.

        • Nick_from_Detroit

          Neiman,
          Yes, Paul did preach the Gospel, as I’m sure Papa Fracesco did as well. The seed has been planted. Paul didn’t convert everyone in Athens, either.
          32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked; but others said, “We will hear you again about this.” 33 So Paul went out from among them. 34 But some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Are-opagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them. – Acts 17:32-34

          Since you’re mocking Francis too, that kinda makes you like those Athenians who mocked Paul, huh?

          • Fundisi

            There is absolutely no evidence that your Pope, the man sitting in the chair of the false prophet, has ever preached the Gospel to the leaders or key ministers of these many false religions he is reaching out to in his effort to construct a one-world religion.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            How would you know, Neiman? Were you there, at the pope’s side the whole time?
            Are you aware that Fundisi means Priest, teacher in Zulu?
            Does this mean that you are violating Christ’s command to not call any man “teacher” by using this moniker?

          • Fundisi

            First, while it really none of your business, I used Fundisi for several years, long ago, so it is nothing new for me. Next, I have dear Christian friends in South Africa, blacks of Zulu heritage, they say It literally means one who talks about God’s Word and they have applied it to me in that sense, that I like to talk about God’s Word; and while used almost exclusively of back ministers, it also has a more general meaning of just one who as a way of life talks about God’s Word most often. Next, a teacher is a gift of the Spirit and it is not what Jesus was talking about. Jesus was talking about using a title hypocritically to be seen of men, rather than to see God as our Teacher in a spiritual sense. So, in every way you are in error.

            “Roman Catholics call their priests “father” and the pope is called “the holy father.” This is clearly unbiblical. The priest as “father” is problematic. Catholic priests are doing precisely what Matthew 23:9 condemns by allowing the term “father” in a spiritual sense be applied to them. In no sense is a priest or pastor a “spiritual father” to a Christian. Only God can cause a person to receive “spiritual birth”; therefore, only God is worthy of the title of “Father” in a spiritual sense.

            In the case of the “holy father,” there is no doubt this is unbiblical. No man can take on the title of “holy” anything, because only God is holy. This title gives the pope a status that is never intended for any man on earth. Even the apostle Paul referred to himself as the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15) and cried out, “Who will deliver me from this body of death?” (Romans 7:14). Clearly, Paul made no claim to holiness. Although as Christians we have exchanged our sin for the righteousness of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21), holiness will not be attained until we are in heaven and have left the last vestiges of our sin natures behind. Until then, the pope has no more holiness than the average Christian and is not entitled to be called “holy father.”

            Lastly, you know and I know and the world knows the Pope does not preach the Gospel to these people, he is building false bridges to create a one-world religion.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Neiman,
            Hey, I only looked up “Fundisi” on google to see what would come up. And, it said priest and teacher. I meant no offense, I promise. Would you prefer that I use Fundisi now? Because, I’m only using “Neiman” since I’m just so used to calling you that, over the last month. Let me know if you have a preference, now that you changed it, okay?

            Your source is wrong about using “father,” since Christ meant the same thing about “father” as He did with “teacher” and “master.” Or, was Saint Paul wrong when he called himself a father in the spiritual sense?
            I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

            Also, Ss. Peter, Paul, and John all refer to their disciples as sons, children, and fathers many, many times in Scripture:
            Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his child: “Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ” (1 Cor. 4:17); “To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (1 Tim. 1:2); “To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (2 Tim. 1:2).
            He also referred to Timothy as his son: “This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare” (1 Tim 1:18); “You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus” (2 Tim. 2:1); “But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel” (Phil. 2:22).
            Paul also referred to other of his converts in this way: “To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior” (Titus 1:4); “I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment” (Philem. 10). None of these men were Paul’s literal, biological sons. Rather, Paul is emphasizing his spiritual fatherhood with them.

            […]
            Peter followed the same custom, referring to Mark as his son: “She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark” (1 Pet. 5:13). The apostles sometimes referred to entire churches under their care as their children. Paul writes, “Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their children” (2 Cor. 12:14); and, “My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!” (Gal. 4:19).
            John said, “My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1); “No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth” (3 John 4). In fact, John also addresses men in his congregations as “fathers” (1 John 2:13–14).
            By referring to these people as their spiritual sons and spiritual children, Peter, Paul, and John imply their own roles as spiritual fathers. Since the Bible frequently speaks of this spiritual fatherhood, we Catholics acknowledge it and follow the custom of the apostles by calling priests “father.” Failure to acknowledge this is a failure to recognize and honor a great gift God has bestowed on the Church: the spiritual fatherhood of the priesthood.

            Lastly, you have know idea what Papa Francesco says to these people in private. Nor, do I. And, he’s not interested in a one-world-religion cabal, which is the invention of tin-foiled hat conspiracy theorists.

        • Nick_from_Detroit

          One more thing. When did you receive this authority to declare who is, and who is not, misusing the Sacred Scriptures?

  • James Grimes

    What does light have to do with darkness?

  • Fundisi

    * Pope debates France attacks and says [other] religion[s] should not be ‘insulted’
    * Pontiff says there are limits to free speech and people shouldn’t ‘provoke’
    * He adds that he would punch someone if they insulted his mother [Mary?]

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2911370/Pope-arrives-Philippines-amid-massive-security-operation.html#ixzz3OuzLpo3O

    This is the False Prophet Pope – he is dedicated hereby to an ecumenical outreach to all faiths, bringing them all under an umbrella of a global religion, a one world religion. He honors them all and sees them all as but different paths to God, even saying atheists that are good people can be saved, which is anti-Christ. If you don’t like it, he will punch you in the face.

    As I have said, the Roman Catholic Church preaches another salvation than by Grace alone, by faith alone and that in Christ alone; making it into a kind of grace, with being good (works/self-effort) playing a major role in earning salvation. So, if you are good person of any religion, you can earn salvation. They will all deny this, but it is true.

    • Nick_from_Detroit

      Why are you making up stuff about the Holy Father, Neiman?
      He’s done none of the things that you’ve accused him of doing.
      Please, don’t let the frustration of of being unable to answer objections to sola Fide cause you spread untruths about Papa Francesco, okay? Bearing false-witness violates one of God’s Commandments, after all.

      • Fundisi

        I am not frustrated, I have and can support sola fide and I have not lied about your falsely called holy father, your false prophet pope.

        Don’t worry about my bearing false witness, worry that you are trying to earn your salvation, according to the false Gospel of the Roman Catholic Church.

        • Nick_from_Detroit

          I’m not worried, at all, Neiman.
          Repeating the crack-pot, conspiracy theory that the Pope is trying to form a one-world religion is bearing false-witness. According to God’s Word. God Bless!

          • Fundisi

            No, it is my opinion based on facts. Ecumenicism is all about a one-world religion, it is a merging of all faiths into one harmonious religious organism, it is people like your Pope and Rick Warren, so-called Christian leaders, compromising their faith, by engaging in fellowship through commonly held political goals with the demon spirits of false, pagan religions, to build a political power base and your Pope is at the center, even now building a political power base for himself as he ventures into things like Cuba and so-called global warming, making political alliances to garner power to himself and his false Church. Even you think the RCC is the one-true Church and that all the world’s religions should follow the Pope.

            Sure you are not worried, you have been blinded by the deceiving spirits of the Roman Catholic Church, embracing a false Gospel of salvation and thinking yourself saved. I pray you will wake up before it is too late.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Neiman,
            Whoever taught you about ecumenicism has deceived you; it has nothing to with any of those false charges repeated by you. And, I don’t think I’m saved. That’s called the sin of presumption, as in presuming that God will forgive me no matter what sins I commit. The false gospel of faith alone and once saved, always saved is a made-up doctrine of men, i.e., Luther & Calvin.
            You are aware that Pope Saint John Paul II was the key figure in the tearing down of the Iron Curtain and the Soviet Union, are you not? He worked with President Reagan & Prime Minister Thatcher to end the world-wide communist conspiracy.
            Now, was that a work of Satan? Or, a work of God?

          • Fundisi

            While there are several definitions applied to ecumenicism, as the Pope is clearly reaching out to Christian and all non-Christian religions, seeking to make all religions into one, this definition has to be applicable. : 1. Of worldwide scope or applicability; universal. 2. Concerned with establishing or promoting unity among churches or religions.

            If you do not believe you are saved, then you are not saved. Salvation is not a progressive act over time, earned by the good works or obedience of Christians, it is a completed act accepted by God’s Grace, through faith. Your man falling off the cliff is not working towards his life being saved, he is either saved or he is not and if he is saved from death – he is saved from death, he is not being saved. By Grace we ARE saved, not are being saved.

            No I am not aware John Paul-II was the key figure in tearing down the Iron curtain, ending the cold war or bringing down the Soviet Union. He was a key player on the stage and there were several, but the star or the key player was Ronald Reagan who came into office determined to bring down the Soviet Union and end the Cold War. Take out any of the other key players and the effort could not succeed, it took a man of resolve and one willing and having behind him the resources to spend the Soviet Union into oblivion. From Prime Minister Thatcher to Lech Walesa of Poland, world conditions and the Pope, they all played powerful roles, but take out Reagan and it fails.

            Pope John Paul-II, who by the way wanted Mary to be named co-redempter with Jesus, played his role, as did most prior Popes, all played their role in garnering political power for Rome and as shadows of the False Prophet the last Pope would actually fulfill, Pope Francis is now reaching out in more political ways, trying to influence the policies of nations than any prior Pope in my opinion.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            “[…] [S]eeking to make all religions into one […].”
            Please provide evidence for this assertion, Neiman?

            You seem to have confused the Protestant “ecumenical movement” with the Catholic Church’s use of the word ecumenical. The former was an attempt at Christian unity that resulted in the World Council of Churches (1937); the latter is an attempt by the Holy See to find common ground with different Protestant denominations on the doctrines that divide them. The Church also uses ecumenical to describe some of its councils.
            Visiting a Buddhist temple is not an ecumenical act.

            Yes, salvation is a process. As I showed you with the example of Abraham. You had no answer to how Abraham was saved when he left Haran, again when he believed God’s promise about his descendants, and again, when he was about to sacrifice Isaac. All in obedience to God, even though he and Sarah disobeyed God when Abraham had Ismael with Hagar.
            My man, who has fallen off a cliff onto a ledge, is saved by the grace of the rope, but, he must still cooperate with God’s gift to escape danger and finally be saved. He’s not saved until he reaches the top, the Summit, and is in no more danger of falling again. Until that happens, he is always in danger of losing his grip on the rope (saving faith) and falling even further from God.
            Today, that same priest posted another essay on the three Protestant sola‘s (Fide, Gratia, & Scriptura). For those who aren’t like Neiman/Fundisi, and can stand to read something by a Catholic priest, here’s the link:
            http://blog.adw.org/2015/01/faith-is-not-alone-scripture-is-not-alone-grace-is-not-alone-we-ought-not-separate-what-god-has-joined/

            Please, look up Pope Saint John Paul II’s June, 1979, trip to Poland, shortly after he was elected to the papacy. President Reagan gave much credit to John Paul. Without the pope, the chances the Berlin Wall falls in 1989 is unlikely.
            Stalin famously asked, “How many divisions does the pope have?” Well, the Soviet Union is gone, and the Catholic Church is still here.
            And, again, my question was this a work of Satan, or of God?
            Check out this short trailer:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av5rc5IPavs

          • Fundisi

            1. His actions are my evidence, all the evidence I need, he and his predecessor has even shared communion with them at the Vatican. I have witnessed his actions and words reaching out to pagan faiths and his political actions and he is building a one-world false religion, he is NOT preaching the Gospel to them. He is having fellowship with people in darkness, people serving demon gods and embracing them as brothers.

            2. I am not confused, I gave you the definition of ecumenicism and which I applied and said why, if you do not agree or do not like it, tough. The attempts even to bring all the world’s Protestants and find common ground is an attempt to deny Christ and Grace and set himself up as the head of the entire Christian Church on earth.

            3. I did answer fully and more than once about Abraham, your continuing to suggest otherwise is a deliberate, conscious lie. It was the same faith on each occasion, the same justification, which was later evidenced by his willingness to sacrifice Issac.

            4. I am simply not interested in Catholic propaganda, as I believe it is a false Church and the seat of the False Prophet and do not want to expose myself to their deceptions that are leading souls away from Christ. Just as you reject Got Questions and any Protestant teachings.

            “Pope Francis has good news for atheists. Jesus died and was raised for
            them as well. His redemptive embrace was for all, not just a chosen
            few.The choice to accept its reach is our own. The Holy Father was not
            teaching anything new. In fact, this hope that all who do not yet know
            God are not only capable of doing good – but will progress toward that
            knowledge of God by doing good – is ancient. The Church wants all men
            and women to be saved.”

            5. If the man on the cliff has to hold on and reach the top, it is salvation by works, Christ in holding the rope is not able to save us to the uttermost alone, he fails as our Savior, He must depend on man to add to His work and help save himself and that is anti-Grace and anti-Christ.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            1. “he and his predecessor has even shared communion with them at the Vatican.”
            No they have not, Neiman. That is just flat out false. And, again, you have no idea what the pope is preaching to them. You’re not at his side, 24/7, are you?

            2. Hey, that’s up to you Protestants. The Catholic Church is never going to change Her teachings to foster more ecumenism. Of that, I can assure you.

            3. You did not answer “fully,” because you never said how Abraham was saved with the same faith throughout, when he clearly sinned by having Ishmael through Hagar, his wife’s Egyptian slave? This happened in Gn.16, which is between Gn.15 & Gn.22. Or, did you forget that one?

            4. One problem with that. I’m not afraid to read gotquestions. I read Protestant authors all the time. In fact, most of the Catholic scholars and bloggers that I read quote from Protestant scholars frequently. N.T. Wright is one that I can recall off the top of my head. If you’re so sure that your position is correct, you shouldn’t fear reading the Catholic position on things, should you?
            (That citation is a misrepresentation of what Pope Francis said about atheists.)

            5. No, it is “faith working in love,” as Paul taught. Christ gives the rope (faith), He waits for us to grab it, He then pulls the rope up (grace), but, we have to cooperate on the journey up the cliff-face, do we not? There are obstacles in the way (e.g., jutting rocks, branches, slippery rock faces, etc.). There’s also those who don’t want us to make it to the top, and, tempt us to let go of the rope or descend back down the cliff (i.e., Satan and the demons).
            Our cooperation doesn’t “add to His work” in the sense that Christ can’t brings all the way Home. It is necessary because He gave all of us free-will to reject Him or embrace Him.
            If I’ve understood your position correctly, we ask for the rope, and Christ lassos us tight, and drags us up the cliff-face NO MATTER what we do to impede Him. Have I got that right? And, if we’re not one of the elect, He only pretends to send the rope, because we were never meant to get to the top to begin with.
            I’m sorry, but I don’t see God creating people for Hell in the Scriptures.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            All of this means that you are trying to connect the eschatological dots to fit the framework that you have already presupposed.

          • James Grimes

            “The false gospel of … once saved, always saved is a made-up doctrine of men, i.e., Luther & Calvin.”
            Not true. See Romans 8:28-30. This emphatically explains this doctrine. If you’re looking at Hebrews 10:26-27, there was no genuine salvation at the start. This is assuming that you know the Bible well enough to interpret it correctly and that you are born again and you are filled with the Spirit. If not, you will never know and understand Scripture.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Hello, Mr. Grimes. Thank you, for your reply.
            Catholics read Romans 8 in a different light than Protestants, of course. And, I haven’t read about predestination in a while. I remember it was complicated, from the Catholic & Protestant perspective. I did recently re-read an article on Calvin’s notion of “evanescent grace,” which basically means that God will trick some into thinking that they are saved, part of the “elect,” but, they are really damned. Catholics do not agree with this, obviously.

            Here’s a Catholic view (my paraphrase of it, anyway) of why sola Fide is not biblical (with Scripture passages). Perhaps you can explain to me why Abraham was continually justified from Genesis 12 through chapter 22?

            1. Both Ss. Paul & James tell us that Abraham “believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness” (Rm.4:3; Jm.2:23; cf.Gn.15:6).

            2. Paul tells us that Abraham was justified because he believed God’s promise to make his descendants as numerous as the stars (Gn.15:5).

            3. If Abraham is once saved, always saved, saved by faith & grace alone, and was justified because he “believed God” (in Gn.15), he must NOT have been saved prior to Gn.15, correct? Nor, could he have received justification through God’s grace of saving faith after Gn.15, either, right? Yet, he did.

            4. Hebrews 11:8 tells us, “By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place which he was to receive as an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was to go.”

            5. When did Abraham have this faith? Years earlier, back in Gn. 12! When he left Haran.

            6.If Abraham received saving faith in Gn.12, was he not justified? But, Paul told us that he was also justified in Gen.15. Hmmm.

            7. And, yet, James tells us that Abraham was justified, again, in Gn.22, when he offered Isaac in sacrifice: “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?” (Jm.2:21, cf. Gn.22:1-18; Heb.11:17-19).

            8. This was after Abraham & Sarah disobeyed God after He promised that Sarah would have a child (she laughed) and Sarah gave her slave, Hagar, to Abraham resulting in the birth of Ishmael (Gn.16). They were too impatient to wait for God’s promise to come true, and sinned.

            9. So, Abraham was justified THREE TIMES, in Genesis 12, 15, & 22! How can one believe that justification is a once-for-all occurrence? How can faith alone save?

            Salvation is a process, as God’s Word clearly shows us.

            10. Scripture tells us, “Nevertheless many even of the authorities believed in [Christ], but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: 43 for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God” (Jn.12:42-43).

            If they believed, why weren’t they saved? If they were saved, why wouldn’t they “confess it”?

            For a more in-depth treatment, go here:
            http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2011/10/justification-is-not-by-faith-alone.html

          • James Grimes

            I will have to read through this and process it. I will get back to you.

          • James Grimes

            “I did recently re-read an article on Calvin’s notion of “evanescent grace,” which basically means that God will trick some into thinking that they are saved, part of the “elect,” but, they are really damned. Catholics do not agree with this, obviously.
            I have not see this article, but the premise seems far-fetched. It certainly is not something that I have ever seen and something that I cannot agree with.
            When Abraham was saved, it happened one time. Justification, however, is an ongoing process. In today’s terminology, we are baby Christians at the start, God works through us, then we mature in the Christian faith. This takes time.
            Sola Fide… faith alone. Paul speaks of this several times. Check out Romans 3: 27-28. Works do not affect us having faith, but, as James points out, if we have faith, we will do God’s work. Check out v.30 as well.
            We cannot depend on anything we do for salvation. We will always come up short. Salvation is God’s gift to us and can only come from God. Just as we were originally born through no effort of our own, our rebirth as a child of God is also without our own efforts.
            For these reasons, I rely on Sola Fide as the reason for my adoption as a child of God. This is an eternal state. Romans 8:38-39 guarantees this for eternity.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Mr. Grimes,
            Calvin said as much about this “evanescent grace” in his Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book III, Chapter II, Section 11. Since I must quote it at length, I put it in a new comment which will either be at the top of the combox, or the bottom, depending on whether you are set to “Sort by Newest” or “Sort by Oldest,” respectively. God Bless!

          • James Grimes

            I should be able to check this out today. I’ve been pretty busy the last few days.

          • James Grimes

            I had a chance to check out this passage. I have read it before. It seems that Calvin is referencing Matthew 13:20-21 – the parable of the sower. There are too many people who take in God’s Word, but it never takes root; or if it does, it doesn’t last long. Too many pseudo-Christians are like this. God’s Word never has any solid foundation.

            The study of God’s Word takes time and commitment. I’m taking more classes and know I have to devote quite a bit of time during hectic days as they are. Most people can’t devote this time or are not willing to do so. It is a labor of love.

            Blessings for your interest. Take care.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Mr. Grimes,

            This is not my understanding of Calvinist thought on justification and being saved. I was under the impression that Calvinists (not that they all agree, of course) take Saint Paul’s words in Romans 4:3, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” as stating that Abraham was saved in Gn.15:5-6. Because Abraham had faith (believed), he was saved (reckoned to him as righteousness).

            Is this not correct?

            Paul’s whole point in Romans (and Galatians) was that the claims of the Judaizers that Salvation was not through Christ alone, but, that works of the Law were also necessary, e.g., circumcision and eating clean foods. See my responses to Fundisi on these subjects. They might be of help in understanding from where I’m coming, without me re-typing a lot of stuff. God Bless!

          • pax2u

            Onced Saved Always Saved can be the equal of the Muslim terrorist recieving his 72 virgins in heaven
            if the OSAS believes that there is no further need to ask for forgiveness from God, and that all Sin is the same
            a OSAS can then be a suicide bomber terrorist and receive their Salvation from God

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Pax2u,
            I say this as your brother in Christ, but, you are not bring people closer to Christ’s Church.
            You are driving them away, I’m sorry to say.

            You’re a troll, and trolling Protestant websites in order to insult & belittle them is not obeying Christ’s command to love your neighbor as yourself. I’m telling you this, again, not as someone who is guiltless. I’ve fallen for many of the same temptations that you have. I try not to, but, I’m a poor sinner and fall short sometimes.
            Your continuing insults and bad-faith comments cause scandal (a stumbling stone) to the Catholic Church. If you don’t believe me, ask your parish priest tomorrow, at Mass.

            Also, watch this 13 minute video from Dr. Taylor Marshall on what NOT to do as a Catholic apologist. God Bless!
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf-n51jONg0

          • James Grimes

            Thank you for bringing this to his attention.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            This is what Christian charity is all about, to me.

    • Spoob

      You seem to be an inexhaustible force for hate and intolerance. Not a very good example of a Christian, I’m afraid.

      • Fundisi

        You seem to be an inexhaustible enemy of Christ and a child of Satan. What would you, an atheist, know about what a Christian should sound or act like?

        • Spoob

          I’m not a child of Satan and I’m not an atheist either. I don’t walk around trashing Pat Robertson so why are you walking around trashing the pope? Leave him alone. If you aren’t Catholic you don’t have to walk around offending Catholics.

          • Fundisi

            Jesus is the rock of offense and most people stumble over Him and miss salvation; and it is those dear Catholics that need most to hear the truth and if the truth offends them and if only a few find salvation in Christ, by grace alone, then I am not ashamed to offend them.

          • Spoob

            The dear Catholics have nothing to learn from you. You are a deluded hatemonger and you know precisely nothing about Catholicism or church history. You should be learning from the Catholics who have been Christians for over 2000 years.

          • Fundisi

            Well the truth is the Roman Catholic Church has not been around for 2000 years and Peter was not its first Pope and it is not the true Church, the Body of Christ is the only true Church and Jesus its only head.

            Well I have had fun watching you play the jerk long enough tonight, it is amusing, but not laughable. I am tired and getting ready for bed. You might want to consider a long hot bath, sink your head below the water line and hold your breath for an hour or two and see how that works out for you.

          • Spoob

            History disagrees with you and so does the dictionary. You are a joke as a Christian.

          • Fundisi

            No history does not disagree – oh, sorry you mean made up Roman Catholic history – ha ha ha ha ha, what a joke.

          • Spoob

            Made up Roman Catholic history? Who made it up then? Are ALL the history books lying?

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            What is “made up Roman Catholic history?” If someone was to examine your record of posts, they would not fine anything with which to compare this statement because you do not discuss history.

            You usually give the impression that you do not know your history and that this ignorance is a weak spot from which you are constantly trying to deflect attention.

          • Fundisi

            No matter what you say, you are still a Roman Catholic at heart,

            I have discussed the history of the Catholic Church here, the fact you have not noted it is your problem, not mine.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            I have noticed and acknowledged the instances where you mention the Catholic Church and think that it is legitimate history. However, it is neither legitimate, nor is tossing around rhetorical canards about Catholicism “church history.”

          • Terry Roll

            The Catholics compiled the book that you take as infallible and totally literal. Better hope they got it right.

          • Fundisi

            The Roman Catholic Church did not come into existence in any real form until 350-500 years after the Resurrection and the early church in many writings had already recognized virtually all of the Books of the New Testament and the Old Testament had long been recognized. As early as 180 AD 22 of the current 27 books were listed and universally recognized as authoritative. The Roman Catholics did play a role in the final stages of compiling the Bible, even though there were many arguments over the Apocrypha that they also included in THEIR bible. The Roman Catholic Church played a role, but the Bible existed before they simply recognized what was already recognized by the early Church.

          • pax2u

            sad the amount of hate from Neiman, sad that he had to change his name to Fundisi when he was caught lying about the Bible to support another anti Catholic bigot

          • Spoob

            Truth isn’t important to these bigots, nor history.

          • pax2u

            truth gets in the way of their hatred and bigotry

      • Pieter Ulrich Fischer

        Its not hate or intolerance but truth. Only one way to God the Father and that is Jesus Christ. Truth is universally binding if you like it or believe in it or not

        • Spoob

          The Catholic church canonized the Bible. Lying about fellow Christians and their beliefs makes for a bad Christian. The Catholics know and love Jesus, and it is the same JESUS you believe in.

        • James Grimes

          “Lying about fellow Christians and their beliefs makes for a bad Christian.” This is the source of his belief on this forum. He believes that anyone who holds to what the Bible teaches, and some of it is not what the RCC teaches, is a hater. He does not know the Bible well enough (see his comment, “Judge not, lest ye be judged.”) to distinguish between truth and false doctrine.

  • pax2u

    The Pope meets with other faiths and other people of the World, as a humble servant of the Christian God Jesus Christ
    and the lunatic fringe is filled with hatred

    • Gary

      The pope’s visit does not bother me. What bothers me is his saying he is a Christian.

      • pax2u

        comparing the Pope a humble servant of the Christian God Jesus Christ, the message of Love and Mercy
        you your message of hate, bigotry, anger, and intolerance, is a stretch, you who support Westboro Baptist Church, and you who is against the Civil Rights Act, you are really sad

        • Pieter Ulrich Fischer

          Jesus would have been called a bigoted hater in today’s time. The pope is a man born in sin like every other human being. Jesus Christ, who is God said the following. No man comes unto the Father but through me. So every other religion serves Satan. Also, Jesus also spoke against homosexuality. He also spoke against polygamy, loving money, adultery, pride. The pope is a false concept not supported in scripture. And also, he is violating every basic Biblical doctrine with his recent proclamations. Jesus said:” I am the way, the truth and the life.” So no other god or religion has those aspects in truth. The pope is trying to unify world’s religions which is impossible. Jesus said His true servants will be hated by EVERY NATION! Also, as for the west buro baptists church…. which is not a real church they just took the title. They are literally nothing more than one family who has been influenced by one charismatic/influential uncle. They are about as baptist as a rattlesnake.

          • pax2u

            the Pope is a sinner, I am a sinner, even you may be a sinner
            would Jesus support the right to discriminate based on race as does gary?

          • Pieter Ulrich Fischer

            Race has nothing to do with it. Its not discrimination but truth. No homosexual, no idolater, no adulterer, no murderer, no liar etc will inherit the kingdom of God.

          • pax2u

            ask Gary, who wants the Civil Rights Act repealed, I guess the Martin Luther King, jr holiday brings out the racist in him,
            But Gary also supports the hatred of the Westboro Baptist Church

          • James Grimes

            “discriminate based on race” Where does this come from. BTW, Gary comments here and his comments are usually right on. His basis is always Scripture. Gary has never said anything where he supports “discriminate based on race.”

          • pax2u

            ask Gary if he agrees with the protests of the Westboro Baptist Church at the Funerals of Soldiers who have died for America
            there will always be the cowardly “useless” who will agree with gary’s hatred and bigotry, and call it scriptural
            so sad these hypocrites will hold up a Bible, have no denominational doctrine, and a theology of hating Christians, so very sad
            they will even support lying about the Christian Bible, hypocritical they are “useless’

      • Spoob

        He is a Christian, he’s not a nasty bigoted hater.

        • Pieter Ulrich Fischer

          Jesus would have been called a bigoted hater in today’s time. The pope is a man born in sin like every other human being. Jesus Christ, who is God said the following. No man comes unto the Father but through me. So every other religion serves Satan. Also, Jesus also spoke against homosexuality. He also spoke against polygamy, loving money, adultery, pride. The pope is a false concept not supported in scripture. And also, he is violating every basic Biblical doctrine with his recent proclamations. Jesus said:” I am the way, the truth and the life.” So no other god or religion has those aspects in truth. The pope is trying to unify world’s religions which is impossible. Jesus said His true servants will be hated by EVERY NATION!

          • Spoob

            If you had ever spent two minutes in a Catholic church you’d know that the pope serves Jesus Christ. I was Catholic for years. Satan is the enemy. You have everything backwards.

          • Pieter Ulrich Fischer

            The whole concept of the papacy is satanic and ungodly. The heretical apocryphia and all of that.

          • Spoob

            No, there is nothing Satanic about the original Christians. I was Catholic for many years, they are as Christian as it gets. How ridiculous and hateful to say such a thing.

          • CrossedtheTiber

            Have you researched the origin of the Pope? You might be surprised to know that by making this statement you are actually calling Jesus and St. Peter ungodly. Jesus appointed St. Peter as His first Vicar to serve and care for His Church.

      • James Grimes

        Oh… the incoherent fool is back with his poor grammar and nonsensical rants. Protect yourself!

  • Fundisi

    It finally struck me that the Pope does not want free speech to be used to oppose the Roman Catholic faith and I suppose the self-proclaimed holy father.

    • Spoob

      He isn’t self-proclaimed. Over one billion people proclaim him to be the holy father.

      • Fundisi

        There is only one Holy Father – Almighty God and everyone calling him “the Holy Father” are deceived and dishonoring God – all 1 billion of them, giving God’s Throne to a mere man and the Pope for allowing it is just like Lucifer, trying to sit upon God’s Throne, as the last Pope will when he calls himself God.

        • Spoob

          This is a matter of giving simple respect to the man who leads the Catholic church. No one worships him, no one puts him in place of God, no one dishonors God. Whoever has brainwashed you has done an excellent job. But of course you know the minds of one billion people better than they know themselves, right? And of course, that’s not arrogant.

          • Fundisi

            It is not simple respect to give to a mere, sinful man the title and place in our hearts that belongs to God alone – that is idolatry, and to try and rob Him of His glory as the Pope does by accepting that title. Narrow is the way unto salvation and few find their way therein.

          • Spoob

            You are a liar and a hypocrite. I DEFY you to tell me that your own church does not have a human leader. Do people accuse him of being God? No? Then why do you accuse the pope of doing the same thing?

          • Fundisi

            The leader of my church is Jesus Christ and yes, we call Him God. In the denominations I have joined for corporate worship, they call the minister pastor and usually the denomination leader Superintendent.

          • Spoob

            The leader in ANY Christian church is God and that includes the Catholics, that’s not what I am talking about. The Catholics have a human leader, that is the pope, and your denomination has a human leader too. You are lying if you claim otherwise. The situations are identical.

          • Fundisi

            No they are not. See I have never been a member of any denomination, I am just a lowly Christian, I fellowship with several, but I only belong to the Body of Christ, the only true Church and I do not believe in divided loyalties and need no leader but the Lord. I wish the leader of the Roman Catholic Church was God, but they have a flesh and blood holy father, while I only honor, praise and worship almighty God – the ONLY true Holy Father.

          • Teresa

            Catholics call the pope “Holy Father” not as an acknowledgement of his personal state of soul but as an expression of respect for his office as successor to Peter and head of the Church on earth. His is a holy office.

            It is the same as giving respect to the office of the president. You may not agree with him but you give him respect for the office he holds.

          • Fundisi

            I know that is what you believe, but Holy Father is a title and position that belongs to God alone, it is utter blasphemy and IMO heresy to either grant or accept the title of Holy Father for any human being. It is the sin of Lucifer, one seeking God’s Throne. Further, making Peter into the first Pope and any human being as his successor is absolutely false.

          • Teresa

            Exactly, it is YOUR opinion and nothing more.

          • Fundisi

            Based on God’s Word!

          • James Grimes

            The word “holy” cannot be applied to any human as God alone is holy. His holiness is without limit.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            The word “holy” cannot be applied to any human as God alone is holy.
            This is not completely accurate, Mr. Grimes.

            While the Greek hagios (ἅγιος) is used ONCE by Christ to refer to God the Father as “Holy Father” (Jn.17:11) and many times in reference to the Holy Spirit; it is also used to describe John the Baptist (Mk.6:20), the holy angels (Mk.8:38; Lk.9:26), the saints who walked out of their tombs (Mt.27:52), the holy prophets (Lk.1:70; Acts 3:21), Christ’s saints at Jerusalem (Acts 9:13); the saints (Rm.8:27).
            I could go on and on.

            “Holy” just means sacred, pure, set apart, saint.
            Interestingly, there are no individuals referred to as “saints” in the books of the Old Testament. The Hebrew word qodesh (holy) is not used to describe what we would call Old Testament saints (e.g., Abraham, Jacob, Moses, & David). Because in the Old Covenant only God is Holy. In the New Testament in Christ’s Body & Blood, the Eucharist, those who partake in the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Rv.19:9) share in God’s Holiness and Divinity (2Pet.1:4). Praise the Lord!

          • James Grimes

            Your detailed reply piqued my interest. You are correct.
            I was thinking more of “holiness” than I was thinking of holy. I looked at a few of my Systematic Theology texts from seminary days to double check. “Holiness” is one of God’s incommunicable attributes, once that can only be attributed to him and not shared by His creation.
            “Holy,” as it is used in Scripture, has two meanings – 1) refers to God’s pure and righteous actions, His transcendent majesty, His superiority as the Creator. Again, this is an incommunicable trait of God. It cannot be shared with his creatures. 2) the second meaning, and the one that you are referring to, is a thing or person that has been set apart, consecrated, or made different. This meaning can be used to refer to the Pope by Roman Catholics.
            I do stand corrected on what I had said. I could have given a more detailed explanation, but I did not. Thanks for sharing.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            I’m glad that we were able to clear this up, Mr. Grimes.
            God Bless!

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            p.s. I eagerly await your thoughts on Abraham’s justification.

          • Teresa

            YOUR opinion and nothing more.

          • Fundisi

            God’s Word and nothing less.

          • James Grimes

            Absolutely! The inerrant, infallible, and absolute Word of God.

            Oh, BTW, ignore Paxy. He’s having a bad day.

          • Fundisi

            You might want to go here for an interesting conversation on life after death and a former Christian turned atheist.

            http://christiannews.net/2015/01/16/bestselling-book-pulled-by-publisher-as-boy-who-came-back-from-heaven-recants-story/

            Oh, I don’t feel sorry for Paxy!

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Do you really “feel sorry” for any Catholic that does not repudiate their Catholicism to become a fundamentalist Protestant? I do not get the impression that you do.

          • Fundisi

            If you are referring to your brother Paxy, I do not feel sorry if he had a bad day attacking Christians and spewing his hate.

            I am not interested any anyone becoming a Protestant, only a member of the Body of Christ, being saved and having a new life in Him. I do feel sorry, no matter their religious affiliations, if they do not know Christ as their Savior and the absolute Lord of their lives.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Strangely, in your conception, the only people who turn out to be “True Christians” are the ones who demonstrate belief in distinctly fundamentalist Protestant ideologies and anti-Catholic sentiments.

          • pax2u

            ignore the truth of the Bible, embrace someone who said that Jesus made a prophecy that St Peter would be “hung” upside down, that IS NOT in the Bible, no wonder Neiman had to change his name to Fundisi, the shame of lying about the Bible to support another anti Catholic bigot

          • James Grimes

            Another insensible rant from the incoherent one.

          • pax2u

            I forgive you since you are the “useless”

          • James Grimes

            You have already been told by another Catholic that you give Catholics a bad name by your actions. You need to listen.

          • pax2u

            your hatred of Christians makes you “useless’

          • James Grimes

            Thank you.

          • pax2u

            you are welcome for being “useless” as an anti Christian, you are proving a point

            I ask all CHRISTIANS who love and worship the Christian God Jesus Christ to pray and forgive James Grimes for his hatred of Christians, in Jesus Christ name, amen

          • James Grimes

            You are so kind. Thanks again.

          • pax2u

            you are welcome
            I forgive you your hatred of Christians
            I pray that you find the Peace of Jesus Christ

          • James Grimes

            Wow, your kindness is impressive. Have a blessed day.

          • pax2u

            And I wish you a blessed day also

          • Terry Roll
          • pax2u

            Fundisi thinks that he speaks for God

          • Terry Roll

            It is actually Jesus’ handle. He gets bored easily and comes here to clear things up.

          • pax2u

            poor sad Neiman is obsessed with his hatred of Catholics,
            he had to change his name to Fundisi when he was caught lying about the Bible to support another anti Catholic

          • Spoob

            No one worships the pope. How stupid. He is the human leader of the Catholic church, just as ANY church has a human leader. He doesn’t pretend to be God, doesn’t act like God and doesn’t think he’s God and neither does anyone else.

  • gatekeeper96740

    I recall God did not take kindly when Solomon worshiped at the alter of Ba’al

    • CrossedtheTiber

      The Pope was not worshipping anyone at the Buddhist Temple. Pope Francis only worships God, just as all Catholics worship God alone.

      • gatekeeper96740

        He did the same thing the other day when he went to a Muslim Mosque and prayed toward Mecca . You are PRAYING at someone elses altar.
        And Solomon did the SAME thing.

        • CrossedtheTiber

          Again, Pope Francis is a Christian and only worships and prays to God. We can all pray to God facing any direction we please.

          • gatekeeper96740

            Yeah I bet Solomon had the same responce

  • Spoob

    So the pope shows simple respect to another world religion. This is somehow bad, or shocking, or scandalous? Move along people, nothing to see here.

    • Fundisi

      That’s right, it is evil to have fellowship with Christ and Belial!

      • Spoob

        Whose stupid rule is that? I’m guessing yours.

        • Fundisi

          God’s! II Corinthians 6: “15Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? 16Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols?”

          • Spoob

            So the pope is an unbeliever? Or are you saying he’s an idol?

          • James Grimes

            Excellent use of the Sword of the Spirit.

          • James Grimes

            You can broaden the admonition to include verses 14 through 18. The Lord does not want His people to be of one accord with non-believers. He wants us to remain pure. For that reason, ecumenicalism is not supported in non-apostate churches.

          • Fundisi

            Come out from among them and be separate. You must leave the world and find Christ outside the camp (world). While we cannot avoid contact with evil while in this world, to do so we would have to leave the world, we are not to be yoked together with wicked people, we are to not seek their company or try and build bridges. There is no bridge, no compromise. We are to worship God and take the Gospel of Salvation to the whole world, not be part of it. When we try and make peace with the world, we are always polluted by sin when we do so.

            A favorite story was of a pastor’ sermon, when he had his musical director stand on a pew in the church and asked him to pull him up. After much struggle, no success. Then they switched places, and he asked the musical director to pull him down, which he did with ease. When we position ourselves to embrace evil men, they can always pull us down to their level with ease, but lifting them up to the truth in Christ is an almost impossible task.

          • James Grimes

            Excellent analogy.

  • BarkingDawg

    More Christian against Christian hate going on here again.

    when there are no gays around to bash, you can always take a walk at the Catholics.

  • Edsel Chan

    I am really excited of what will happen next. God is now fast approaching, so we soldiers of Christ must do our work, to share the gospel(although it is very risky).

    • Terry Roll

      Yeah, totally. Look out, there are athiests telling me to shut up all over the place. Much risky. So Christian. Wow.

  • Nick_from_Detroit

    Mr. Grimes,
    Calvin says as much in Book III, Chapter II, Section 11 of Institutes of the Christian Religion:

    Therefore, as God regenerates the elect only for ever by incorruptible seed, as the seed of life once sown in their hearts never perishes, so he effectually seals in them the grace of his adoption, that it may be sure and steadfast. But in this there is nothing to prevent an inferior operation of the Spirit from taking its course in the reprobate. Meanwhile, believers are taught to examine themselves carefully and humbly, lest carnal security creep in and take the place of assurance of faith. We may add, that the reprobate never have any other than a confused sense of grace, laying hold of the shadow rather than the substance, because the Spirit properly seals the forgiveness of sins in the elect only, applying it by special faith to their use. Still it is correctly said, that the reprobate believe God to be propitious to them, inasmuch as they accept the gift of reconciliation, though confusedly and without due discernment; not that they are partakers of the same faith or regeneration with the children of God; but because, under a covering of hypocrisy, they seem to have a principle of faith in common with them. Nor do I even deny that God illumines their minds to this extent, that they recognize his grace; but that conviction he distinguishes from the peculiar testimony which he gives to his elect in this respect, that the reprobate never attain to the full result or to fruition. When he shows himself propitious to them, it is not as if he had truly rescued them from death, and taken them under his protection. He only gives them a manifestation of his present mercy. In the elect alone he implants the living root of faith, so that they persevere even to the end. Thus we dispose of the objection, that if God truly displays his grace, it must endure for ever. There is nothing inconsistent in this with the fact of his enlightening some with a present sense of grace, which afterwards proves evanescent.

    Here’s the link to the Catholic essay on this teaching of Calvin:
    http://catholicdefense.blogspot.com/2010/06/assurance-of-salvation-and-evanescent.html

  • William Tyndale

    The RCC is in error in several areas of Christian doctrine but I have always considered them Christians for they accept the Bible as the word of God. Unlike Christian named cults such as Mormonism, JWs, Adventists and Christian Scientists, the RCC holds to the ancient faith of Christian teaching. They also have been good allies in upholding Christian traditional social and moral virtue with evangelicals. This current Pope however has approached the line of apostasy in several areas, primarily in his near universalism which seems to say all will eventually be saved regardless of belief or non-belief and all religions have merit.