Megachurch Leader Claims ‘Divine Wind’ Moved Him to Fully Accept Members Practicing Homosexuality

MitchellNASHVILLE — An apostate pastor in the Bible Belt who leads the congregation that country star Carrie Underwood attends recently announced from the pulpit that not only can practicing homosexuals be members, but those in sexual sin can now fully serve in his church and will be allowed to “marry” at the facility.

“Our position that these siblings of ours, other than heterosexual, … cannot have the full privileges of membership, but only partial membership, has changed,” Stan Mitchell of GracePointe Church in Franklin, Tennessee announced earlier this month as some clapped and others sat silently in disapproval.

“Full privileges are extended now to you with the same expectations of faithfulness, sobriety, holiness, wholeness, fidelity, godliness, skill, and willingness. That is expected of all,” he continued. “Full membership means being able to serve in leadership and give all of your gifts and to receive all the sacraments; not only communion and baptism, but child dedication and marriage.”

Mitchell, 46, claims that God moved upon him three years ago to begin rethinking his position on inclusion in the congregation. Heretofore, GracePointe had allowed those who identify as homosexuals to attend the services, but drew the line at serving in leadership positions or being “married” by the leadership.

“We were thrust, I believe, by a divine wind, into a prayerful, painful, invigorating, careful and hopeful conversation regarding sexual orientation and gender identity,” he said, remarking that the “art of conversation … is a holy calling.” “This has been at the least painful, and at times, devastating.”

Mitchell said that some homosexuals left the congregation because they disagreed with GracePointe’s position, but others also left when he announced a time of listening over the issue because they were appalled that the matter needed to be discussed at all.

“We lost not only those who could bear the pain of partial inclusion no longer, we lost other brothers and sisters who were on the other side, who so deeply believed they knew God’s heart on this matter … as being opposed to any expression of mutual human sexuality other than theirs,” he stated before those gathered.

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“These people left because in spite of the fact that they love GracePointe and they loved all of us, they could not bear even a conversation lest it promised to yield a conclusion they already had,” Mitchell said. “I do not blame them. They are on their journey, and I’m on mine.”

The evangelical minister acknowledged after announcing that he had decided to fully embrace homosexuals in the congregation that others may choose to depart.

“Inclusion means that we can live together in agreement and disagreement, but if this stretches you to the point of having to compromise your soul, and you do need to separate, I would be a hypocrite to say I don’t understand that,” he stated. “Because, conversely, my soul has been stretched to the point that if I do not say what I say today, I cannot be here any longer. I have felt this way for many, many years.”

But Mitchell also expressed doubt over his conclusion.

“I am not sure I am right, but I am sure I sense the presence of God, and I know I’m doing my best,” he said. “And I believe before God almighty to this we have been called, and here we stand.”

According to TIME, Mitchell’s congregation continues to shrink since he first made the announcement two years ago that he was going to open a listening period over the issue. Two years ago, GracePointe had an average of 800-1000 members in attendance, and after he announced full inclusion for homosexuals this month, attendance went down to 673. Last week, it stood at 482.

Country pop star Carrie Underwood, who attends GracePointe with her husband Mike Fisher, announced in 2012 during the same time that the congregational “conversation” was underway that she supported same-sex “marriage.”

“I definitely think we should all have the right to love—and love publicly—the people that we want to love,” she told The Independent. “It’s not about setting rules or [saying], ‘Everyone has to be like me.’ No. We’re all different. That’s what makes us special. We have to love each other and get on with each other. It’s not up to me to judge anybody.”

Video: Discussion begins at 44:00


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  • Gary

    Stan Mitchell is an infidel. Get down in that hog pen Stan and wallow in the mire!!!

    • Badkey

      Yeah, Stan! Gary’s down there waiting on you!!! He’s SO excited!

      • Gary

        Are you a sodomite? Or just a wannabe?

    • Spoob

      Christian bloodlust is a terrifying thing.

      • The Last Trump

        Are you trying to scare us, Spoobs? Do you lust after the blood of we Christians? Soooo…. that is why you’re here. Interesting…

        • Spoob

          No, I’m saying that if all Christians were like you no one would want to BE a Christian. No one would want to GO to Heaven, and no one would want to worship the crazed maniacal God you worship.

          • The Last Trump

            Oooooooo….man! I hope He didn’t hear that! You nuts just don’t know when to quit. God forgive you. 🙁

          • Spoob

            religioustolerance.org. That website again is religioustolerance.org. Boy could you ever learn some.

  • William Price

    A false Gospel creates this mindset. Reprobated and unconverted hearts will adopt and welcome that which God hates.

  • Fundisi

    It is a false Gospel he preaches, he falsely thinks it is love to accept sexual immorality among the family of God. It is however, no matter his motives or emotions, a perversion of God’s Love, for true Love, the Love of God which is offered to every human being, is a tough love that demands holiness, that demands a forsaking of sin, for if there is no recognition of these things being sin, then there is no need of repentance, no need of the sacrifice of Christ and no need of the Grace of God to pardon us from our sins and heal us. So to cover up these sins, to pretend these sinners are children of God, becomes a rejection of Christ, it becomes anti-Christ.

    Make no mistake Christians, God calls us to love ever human being, yes even homosexuals and to extend to them the Love of God. We cannot, we should not hate them, we should not desire their being cast out – no, a billions times no. We must love them enough to tell them and every sinner the truth that their sins separate them from God and if unrepented, will cause them to suffer everlastingly in Perdition. We must bear their understandable anger and hate and attacks, yes even their attacks on Christians. In the Love of God we must point them to Christ, point them to the Grace of God and His free salvation. We must offer them His healing and deliverance, yes we must even pray for them and for this apostate, falsely called minister. In the love of God, we must seek with all our hearts for their salvation, their healing and their chance at eternal life with God. But, NEVER by compromising the Truth, never watering down the message of the everlasting consequences of their sins – out of love, not anger, not hate. They are thrusting themselves headlong into hell unless they find Christ and we must, even unto death for them, stand on God’s Word, condemn sin and offer them God’s Pardon, that is our calling.

    • GetHubNub

      Here’s a few candidates for Christian healing you can start working on in the below link, some are just too far gone who we pray for at a distance, and only once. I must ask, if you apply what you just wrote to these folks here? Will you dine with them? Will you invite them into your home? Those who aren’t at all interested in Jesus we’re not to waste our time with casting pearls to swine and move on. Many alleged homosexual Christians are just there to cause problems in the church. Do you know the meaning of fearing God is to hate and stay clear evil? Christians aren’t supposed to continue to sympathize with the devil by hanging around with admitted sinners who refuse to repent. With what you said, a very naive Christian could hang around Charles Manson as a family member if he merely says he loves Jesus while deceiving her all the while.

      Discernment is key, Christianity’s not the peace and love 60’s movement. Lastly, we are to follow the Holy Spirit with His Word and not apply a template as you’ve described to all situations as if it’s a rule of thumb. The Holy Spirit directs and knows best. Here’s your candidates for Jesus list profiles to work on based on your statement of loving everyone. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2932485/Did-leave-open-gates-hell-Exhibitors-international-tattoo-expo-devilish-designs.html

      • Fundisi

        Would Jesus dine with them? Didn’t He say He called sinners, even those that would later murder Him, to repentance. I recall Him often dining with the worst of sinners and being criticized, saying He was sent to the lost, not the righteous. I have had very loud atheists, often using very crude terms and speaking rudely in my home and have dined with gross sinners; yet, I did not give ground, I did not participate in their sins and have seen them later, based on the work of the Holy Spirit through His loving hospitality in me, give their hearts to Christ. So, as a general rule, I would offer any sinner loving Christian hospitality and yet never agree with their sins, never compromise my beliefs.

        I have also worked with the worst of men, some possessed of demons. I worked a few times with such vile peole in a Rescue Mission and all the time bringing them God’s offer of Salvation and healing; and had the Rescue Mission Minister command demons to be silent when they were interrupting the preaching of God’s Word. This Rescue Mission director gave his whole life to the dregs of society and I believe Christ was in him, with him and in his ministry to those that that needed the Divine Physician.

        Yes we need spiritual discernment always and at times, to often shake the dust off our feet and leave them to their wicked ways, knowing they have given themselves over to hell.

        I do not ask anyone to follow me, yet I cannot see Christ even in the presence of demons denying them His presence and healing and I would like to think that He often does that through me, whether I see immediate evidence or not. I see Him in me with the most vile of sinners, seeking the lost, not the righteous. On the other hand, I have read His Word in telling us that while we are in the world, we must be separate from the world in our hearts and not embrace sinners as brothers and even breaking fellowship with Christians that have gone astray, so that they might be brought under divine correction. But, did you expect me to say all of that and even more in a short response in a blog?

        • Kenetta Ross

          Yes Jesus ministered to them, as we should, but we should not partake in man or woman’s sin. Marrying them really? Them in positions? Nobody living in willful disobedience should hold any position. If you don’t think Paul would have immediately dealt with this, then my friend you are terribly deceived.

          • Fundisi

            It is impossible for any honest man to read my words and imply any of the false things you are accusing me of saying or believing. Talk about deceived, you have totally deceived yourself about my positions on this matter.

          • Jesse

            The concept and meaning of God’s love is completely foreign and totally confusing to some people who think they know enough to comment on the so called minister in the article. It looks to me like he has simply opened his congregation up to get as many money donaters as possible. (could be something else, like he himself is a pervert and lies to himself) Either way he is not demonstrating God’s love by saying ‘there-there; it’s all right’.
            Ross seems to be arguing both sides and I can’t understand her.

          • wandakate

            Yes, even JESUS got very “angry” at the money changers and the people who were selling things in the temple and He went in and knocked it all off the tables, upset the stands of goods and opened up the cages of the chickens and other animals and let them un loose. He would NEVER approve of homosexuality. If they did not accept His plan of salvation, then he would move on.
            Remember the lust of the flesh is very powerful indeed and satan is also powerful in the spiritual world, and he does this to people to cause them to sin and miss out on heaven.
            They should be preached to and learn what GOD expects from them but to marry and be accepted as participating members of the church is to say…”Oh sin is okay, we accept your sin, and they are condoning the sins of the people. JESUS did not want that. JESUS said, you “must” confess, repent and then what? FORSAKE your sins or you will not enter the Kingdom of GOD.

        • Mary Waterton

          Jesus dined with sinners, but He never promoted sin … and that’s what Mitchell is doing. Jesus didn’t die on the cross so everyone can freely wallow in sin. He expects repentance.

          • Fundisi

            Yes that is what this man is doing and I have condemned it. Yes, Jesus did not nor would I excuse sin for a moment. Yes, Jesus calls us to repent.

          • wandakate

            Very well said, and that is why we make our own choices and seal our own fate. That’s why heaven and hell exist in the first place b/c GOD knew that we would all sin. All of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of GOD. He knew that satan and his demons were influential. He know that the lust of the flesh would be strong. He came so that we might have life and have it to the fullest, but He never accepted ANY sins. JESUS even said, “IF you love me, keep my commandments”. One man and one woman, that was the law that He established and that was one of the ones that we were supposed to keep.

      • wandakate

        Scripture says that the saved and the unsaved have NOTHING in common. We can be cordial to them, but we are not to marry them. Better not to marry at all then to wind up in Hell b/c you displeased the LORD and messed up. What’s more important the union of the two people or heaven. I wouldn’t even have to think about that one.

        • pax2u

          who knows that they are saved? are the Once Saved Always Saved truly saved, and if they are, can they commit any sin and still be saved?

          • wandakate

            Only GOD knows the condition of our hearts. We are sinful by nature, born in sin and stay there until we receive the HOLY SPIRIT which leads us into all the spiritual truth and makes it so that we can understand spiritual things and the scriptures.
            Are we always saved, NO, the bible says that one may lose their salvation by backsliding or becoming lukewarm JESUS said that He wanted us hot or cold, but if we were lukewarm He would spew us out of His mouth (having nothing to do with us). Strong words. He also said, that our names can be blotted out of the book of life. He said if we tasted salvation and then we turned away and lived like the sinner that there is no longer any hope for us. Just final judgment, and that’s all.

          • pax2u

            I agree that the idea of Once Saved Always Saved is wrong

          • James Grimes

            Romans 8 tells us that genuine salvation is guaranteed. We have that assurance.

          • wandakate

            To live in union, or the ones who obey the word. JESUS said that our names can be blotted out of the book of life. If we once tasted the good things (salvation) and somehow we fall away from the faith, there is no remission for sin at that point. We can fall from grace, and after living a life of a saved person, we can start to live a live of an unsaved person thus being luke warm and our names can be blotted out. We are not once save and always saved no matter what…That is not true. I’m going by what JESUS said.

          • James Grimes

            The last 11 verses of Romans 8 teaches otherwise.

          • wandakate

            So then are you saying that the scriptures contradict one another, as in one says this and another says that. It’s our “SPIRIT” that cannot ever be separated from GOD. We die, the “SPIRIT” leaves the body immediately and goes back to GOD who gave it and we go to ashes. Ashes to ashes and dust to dust. We don’t know anything, we are not going to be aware of our surroundings, we will be according to JESUS asleep in the grave until JESUS returns at the resurrection of the dead and we rise when we hear that last trumpet sound. We will awaken and we will rise up, our bodies will leave those graves in the ground and all of those who are still alive after all these things happen will rise up also (be raptured) to meet the LORD in the air, and He will be with a multitude of HIs heavenly angels at that time.
            So yes Romans 8 is good, but we can still according to the other verses lose our salvation if we fall away from the faith and go back into the world and live like the unsaved person (in other works live in the world and of the world). We were told to be in this world but not of this world. We are not to wrap ourselves in the worldly pleasures of the world. If we are friends with the world, we aren’t friend with GOD. He didn’t want us to “fall away” from the faith. He didn’t want us to be “luke-warm”. He said He would have nothing to do with us if we are to get into that situation, it’s all or nothing with GOD. He is a jealous GOD. We must do it His way and not our way.

          • James Grimes

            “but we can still according to the other verses lose our salvation if we fall away from the faith and go back into the world and live like the unsaved person (in other works live in the world and of the world).”
            For some people, their salvation is not genuine.

          • James Grimes

            “but we can still according to the other verses lose our salvation if we fall away from the faith and go back into the world and live like the unsaved person (in other works live in the world and of the world).”
            For some people, their salvation is not genuine.

    • The Lone Ranger

      Amen

    • The Lone Ranger

      Well said Amen

    • OldArkie

      Your correct, yet today it seems many professing Christians pat sinners on the back encouraging in their sins them while telling them to enjoy their sins instead of telling them to repent, confess, accepting Jesus as Savior.

      • Susan

        “Divine wind” probably was bad gas.

        • Fundisi

          Now that’s funny!

          • pax2u

            pax2u Gary • an hour ago

            so you would be willing to execute homosexuals?

            Gary pax2u • an hour ago

            Yes.

          • James Grimes

            Look at the crap from pax2u… Tell me he’s an important part of this discussion????? The incoherent fool doesn’t know what to do next.

          • pax2u

            am I in your head rent free?

            as Gary wants to execute homosexuals, do you agree with him?

      • wandakate

        Very true. Didn’t GOD tell us it was an abomination? The Bible plainly says that they WILL NOT enter the Kingdom of GOD. They are living contrary to what GOD ordained, one man and one woman, the male and female union ONLY.
        Sensible question… IF JESUS was here on earth, do people really think that He would perform a ceremony for homosexual couples? NO, He would condemn it and would have nothing to do with it whatsoever. They think they are gaining something by doing this but what good does it do you to gain the whole world and lose your soul?
        We must do as JESUS would do, (WWJD)?
        According to GOD these are not “marriages” at all. They “are not” made in Heaven, they are a Union of two sinful people who are lusting after one another and this pastor says it’s okay? I would have been OUT of that church. I think we are to love the sinner and hate the sin, but we are not as true Christians to condone this sin and tolerate it openly. He is willing to marry them in his church, then the real true Christians will see this for what it is and get out, the ones that are liberal and don’t care one way or the other will remain. It’s called the division of the body of CHRIST. Like separating the sheep from the goats, or the wheat from the tare. You can’t take a WRONG, and make it RIGHT, in GOD’s plan for humanity. If He would have wanted us to be that way He would have created the human race that way. They are a small percentage of people only maybe 3 or 4 % at most. The may have their union, and do their thing but GOD says they WILL NOT be entering His Kingdom, so if they love themselves and that life more than they love GOD then so be it, as they seal their own fate.

        • DTJO

          No, God did not tell us it was an abomination. God inspired the Bible, He didn’t write it. There is a big difference. Nor did God edit and make all of the many changes that have been made to the scriptures over the years. The book was written by men in a culture that was, and still is, heavily homophobic. You can tell it was something that God did not write because it is divisive and unloving.

          • Fundisi

            I offer you the same challenge I have made to everyone of your beliefs: Show us one, just one passage of Holy Scripture, wherein God ever says directly or even remotely hints at any approval of homosexuality or His condoning gay marriage. If He was in favor and did not judge homosexuality and gay marriage as being sin, being Almighty God, omnipotent and omniscient, could He not, would He not have taken steps when His word was originally inspired and penned to make sure such an error on the part of His children was not clearly corrected? If He was powerless to do so, He cannot be God at all. If He was disinterested and allowed gays to suffer discrimination over many centuries when that was not His real desire, then He is not the God of Love He proclaims Himself to be and He lied about being a God of Love and as God has no motive to lie, again if you are right, then He cannot be God at all.

            No matter how you look at it, as the Jewish people and the Church have always understood homosexuality to be a sin and gay marriage was never even been considered; and, if you are right, it argues strongly for atheism, it demands that God cannot exist at all. That is what is at stake here whether you like it or not. To get God to approve of any sin that has historically been viewed as being sin by Israel and the Church, it argues against the very existence of God.

            Homophobia is a lie! A phobia is an irrational fear of something, which means if you are right, then every time any Christian speaks against any sin, he is guilty of having a phobia against sin, an irrational fear of evil. Is that what you are saying? How about your kind being Christophobic and Aleutheophobic, having an irrational fear of Christ and Divine Truth?

          • Ezra Tank

            How about this passage:

            A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

            Is that one okay?

          • Fundisi

            Those Old Testament commands were for Israel, not the world.

          • wandakate

            THANK YOU…That is exactly what I just wrote to another person who made a comment. The 600+ laws were for the Jewish people or the people that were in Israel then. The BIG 10 were given to “ALL” of us and were for 6 thousand generations, has it been that long yet. A generation according to scripture is approximately 70 years, that’s a lot of math. This is only 2015 on our time but according to GOD this is actually the year 5, 775. Just a little more trivia here, His time starts at dusk or dark and continues for 24 hours until the next day at dusk/dark. So tonite when the sun went down it was Sunday, it’s not midnight like we think it is. He made it the evening and then the morning and that was GOD’s first day.

          • pax2u

            is there always 24 hours each day between dusk, until the next dusk?

          • Fundisi

            The only place we may disagree, if I understood you correctly, is that I do not think the Saturday Sabbath from the 10 Commandments applies to the Church, that too being for Israel.

            As to a generation, it was said that when Israel once again became a nation (1948) that generation would not pass away until the Lord returned, I think for His Church. At three score and ten, that would make it 2018. Of course, some say generation refers to those people or that race. I am not predicting anything, just an interesting note to ponder on your generation comments.

          • wandakate

            Okay, I understand b/c most people don’t but the masses are always wrong. I have a question in which I am hoping you will answer. You are saying that the Saturday Sabbath (it’s still the 7th day on our calendar), from the 10 commandments applies to the church, and is only for Israel.
            With that then you are also saying that none of the other 9 matter either. In other words, if the 4th one does not matter and was only for Israel then what happened to all the other 9? The bible says if you broke one of them (for instance the 4th one) you have in effect broken them all.
            PLEASE answer that one for me.
            Also you said that some say generation refers to those people or that race which is not correct. The said the generation that SEES ALL THESE THINGS will be the generation that will be alive when JESUS returns. This is that generation, like it or not. So, we must prepare as Noah for our own sakes.
            You are correct about the 1948 which was the nation of Israel became a nation, and the scripture says 70 years but it could be 80 depending on what the LORD sees fit to provide. So with that in mind 2018-2028 would be the approximate timeline of CHRIST return to earth to open the graves and call up the saints (that happens all at the same time, it’s not 2 separate events as we are told. He will be coming with His angels this time to gather all His children to take them up from the earth in their new glorified bodies, amen…best day ever!
            We can’t go by what people “say”, we must go by what the word of GOD says, as that’s all that counts in the end.
            We may not know the day or the hour but He warned us to be watching as we don’t know when it will be for sure, but we were supposed to be alert, awake an aware of the signs of the times. And in doing so we would know that His coming is not many years away.
            We are now in the days of “birth pains”. And it’s going to get a whole lot worse before JESUS shows up. We will be on the brink of chaos when He comes with the Angels down from the Heavenly place and saved us from all extinction.

          • Fundisi

            I am not God, while I have the mind of Christ to understand spiritual things according to the Spiritual light given me according to His Will, I do expect to satisfy you with my answers, as each redeemed man must walk with the Spiritual light He has; and as long as anyone comes to Christ and salvation by Grace alone, by faith alone – even that being His faith in us and that faith in Christ alone, while I enjoy exploring such matters they are not critical to our salvation and not worth creating unnecessary division through vain disputations.

            1. If you will recall, when Jesus was asked about the Commandments, He only listed the moral commandments, He omitted Sabbath keeping from that list. So, the moral laws are still in force as a guide to right moral conduct, well in a way, the difference not discussed below. I will not go into the scriptural proofs for Christians deciding to meet on the first day of the week. I will say that at Calvary, when Jesus said it is finished I believe that He meant two things; (a) It was the end of the law of Moses for salvation, Jesus fulfilled it all perfectly for us. (b) At Calvary God the Father rested from His work in the saving of man, as in Jesus, He offered a new way outside the Law, through Grace alone. At Calvary, by our faith in Jesus paying the penalty for all sins and offering us a new and better way to salvation, by Grace, we believers could now rest from our labors in trying to gain salvation by self effort, it was ours as a gift of God’s Mercy. Jesus, by His suffering, death, burial and resurrection became for God and man the Sabbath rest, not a day of the week – to Jesus was all the glory.

            You are certainly free to disagree, in all accept salvation by Grace. I will not argue it further.

            2. As it is not critical to our salvation, you are free to disagree about the return of Christ and the Rapture, it will not impact your salvation. Yet, I do disagree, when Christ returns it will be with the very conscious souls departed from heaven, wherein they will then be joined with their bodies, having then become immortal and that will be followed almost instantaneously with the saints still alive on earth being transfigured into their immortal bodies. This event only talks about the Resurrection of the Body, not about saints that have been annihilated and then brought back to life. In the meantime, all saints departed will be (are) clothed in their heavenly garments. (II Corinthians 5:1-10 makes this perfectly clear.

            As to your other comments, I have nothing to add.

          • Guest

            []

          • Fundisi

            Wrong!

          • Bingo

            Yep, if you are a Hebrew of approximately 3400 years ago.

          • Fundisi

            I offer you the same challenge I have made to everyone of your beliefs: Show us one, just one passage of Holy Scripture, wherein God ever says directly or even remotely hints at any approval of homosexuality or His condoning gay marriage. If He was in favor and did not judge homosexuality and gay marriage as being sin, being Almighty God, omnipotent and omniscient, could He not, would He not have taken steps when His word was originally inspired and penned to make sure such an error on the part of His children was not clearly corrected? If He was powerless to do so, He cannot be God at all. If He was disinterested and allowed gays to suffer discrimination over many centuries when that was not His real desire, then He is not the God of Love He proclaims Himself to be and He lied about being a God of Love and as God has no motive to lie, again if you are right, then He cannot be God at all.

            No matter how you look at it, as the Jewish people and the Church have always understood homosexuality to be a sin and gay marriage was never even been considered; and, if you are right, it argues strongly for atheism, it demands that God cannot exist at all. That is what is at stake here whether you like it or not. To get God to approve of any sin that has historically been viewed as being sin by Israel and the Church, it argues against the very existence of God.

            Homophobia is a lie! A phobia is an irrational fear of something, which means if you are right, then every time any Christian speaks against any sin, he is guilty of having a phobia against sin, an irrational fear of evil. Is that what you are saying? How about your kind being Christophobic and Aleutheophobic, having an irrational fear of Christ and Divine Truth?

          • Bingo

            Baloney.

            God does say homosexuality is an abomination. He did write the bible through His great ability to inspire men with His unmistakable truth.

            “Homophobic” is a new word and it doesn’t represent anyone in the cultures covered in the scriptures.

            Typical of people who have been compromised by the subtle (and blatant) lies of the enemy of God to claim God as unloving and divisive. When one follows after or approves of lifestyles of sin, one will always consider God unloving and divisive.

            Matthew 10:34
            [ Christ Brings Division ] “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

            Luke 12:49
            [ Christ Brings Division ] “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

            Luke 12:51
            Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division.

            Do you not like Jesus, now?

          • Fundisi

            Preach it brother!

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Interesting. So you are willing to trumpet “preach it” when someone says that God thinks it is abomination, but not when they advocate the prescribed penalty for that abomination?

          • jmichael39

            You do realize the wages of ANY sin…the ‘prescribed penalty’…is death. God WILL exact the penalty upon those who reject His holy grace and mercy. You don’t like it, talk to Him.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Does this mean that you support Christians rounding up or having the civil government round up an entire group of people to slaughter?

            That is the immediate context of my statement, which it appears that you have not read. Gary is ignoring the distinction between the ancient Hebrew community under the pain of the Law and the expectations and commands given to Christians of the New Covenant.

          • jmichael39

            No, silly man…It authorizes us to ’round up’ sinners and preach the Gospel. If they reject, their eternal death will follow at their own physical death or the return of Christ.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Again, you are ignoring the context of my question and statement. Save your “silly mans” for Gary and Fundisi.

          • jmichael39

            LMAO…I didn’t ignore your question…you context was pure window dressing. I answered the core issue of your question. You don’t like the answer? Too bad. Ask another question.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            If that is the case, why are you directing it towards me instead of Gary? He is the one that is missing the point and suggesting that homosexuals should be rounded up and killed. Thus, the context is not “window-dressing.” Is pride preventing you from seeing this or something?

          • jmichael39

            You address Gary. I’m not here to address what he said, but what YOU said. Deal with it.

          • pax2u

            Gary said that HE would be willing to execute homosexuals

            there was no suggestion

            from Gary who thinks he is the “true” Christian

            pax2u Gary • an hour ago

            so you would be willing to execute homosexuals?

            Gary pax2u • an hour ago

            Yes.

          • jmichael39

            First of all, I am not Gary. Secondly, I don’t see where a “gary” said anything here, let along that. Thirdly, YOU address this “gary”. I’m addressing YOU. and Magi…unless, of course, you’re the same person. Are you the same person?

          • pax2u

            are you Gary? do you want to execute homosexuals? Gary?

          • James Grimes

            This guy, pax2u, is a nut case. He posts the same cut and paste gibberish over and over again. It’s best that you don’t give him the time of day. He will continue to haunt you if you do.

          • pax2u

            a nut case is some one who is willing to execute homosexuals, and a nut case is some one like you who would support Gary

          • James Grimes

            His last comment to me just proves my point. The incoherent one will take advantage of all opportunities to be a nuisance and a nut case. He bothers people constantly and never offers a comment that has anything to do with the story. He is pretty disgusting.

          • pax2u

            I am proud of you, for condemning Gary as a hateful bigot,

            thank you for standing up and being a man who condemns Gary’s hatred and bigotry,

            thank you

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            No, we are not the same. Is there a reason you are wishing that we are the same person?

          • jmichael39

            If it makes you feel any better, I found Gary’s comments…WAY further down on another thread…nothing to do with what I said about Magi and his comments about fundisi’s post. And I stand in FIRM opposition to Gary’s posts. He does NOT understand the Bible or the biblical views on homosexuality or virtually anything else for which I’ve seen him post.

          • pax2u

            thank you,

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            This makes it all the more mystifying as to why you have made me out to be the enemy here.

            You jumped into the discussion when I was getting at the very same kind of argument as you against Gary. Your bull in the china shop approach caused you to miss the context entirely.

            Now you are asserting the internet badass persona to try to deflect from acknowledging this.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Why do you care what I said since it did not go against what you were saying?

          • jmichael39

            go back and read the thread between you and me from the beginning. And then answer that question for yourself.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            I have already described what I think you are doing. Laugh yourself silly, tough guy.

          • jmichael39

            I’m guessing you didn’t go back and read. Or you wouldn’t make such an asinine statement.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            In your zeal to swoop in and commence with your internet badass routine, you totally missed the fact that I was not the one saying that I think the prescribed Old Testament penalty is the one that should be carried out.

          • jmichael39

            I never said you did. You really do need to learn to read.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            More deflection. I went back and read it. Nothing has magically appeared since the last time I read it.

          • ELAINE MARZANO

            Hi, how are you . you guys are doing so good. I was up till 4 am this morning and again today. I had so many crazy people. I was wishing you were around I had so many comments I could not keep up. then I told a couple of people off. they were so nasty. I feel bad but I can’t put up with their BS. you should come and visit my thread is that what it is called.? HAVE YOU THREE BEEN WORKING TOGETHER? I NEEDTO KNOW. I DON’T WANT OUR HEAVENLEY FATHER TO YELL AT ME. BESIDE THAT I MISS TALKING TO YOU GUYS.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            I have just been responding to the usual silliness. Nothing out of the ordinary.

          • Fundisi

            Please know that this fellow Magister is not above lies and playing games, he wants your defeat, he wants to convince himself his is the superior intellect and make you feel the fool if possible. Ignore him.

          • James Grimes

            Yes, but we know what he really is… meaningless, insignificant, Atheist troll, disputer of righteousness, and defender of Satan.

          • jmichael39

            Oh I don’t mind debating people like him. In case you hadn’t noticed, these pseudo-intellectuals end up looking like morons when confronted with logic.

          • R.A.

            Ad hominem.

          • jmichael39

            Not at all I wasn’t presenting an argument on any issue…merely stating some facts from previous debates. But you keep on trying R.A. I’m more than willing to debate any issue.

          • R.A.

            Calling a group of people with a similar set of beliefs “pseudo-intellectual” and “moron” isn’t exactly helpful to settling an issue such as this one. The terms are dismissive of a view represented by a group of people without engaging the beliefs themselves. If we claim Christ, we must try to show the respect he would show.

          • jmichael39

            LMAO – I wasn’t trying to “settle an issue”. I wasn’t even speaking to those PIs and Morons. You can take the words for whatever you want them to mean to you. You seem to be good at that. I don’t really give a rip. And frankly, you’re really in no position to tell ANYONE how Christians should behave.

          • R.A.

            I see. And as someone who claims Christianity, I cannot recommend being more Christ-like based on which of my actions?

          • jmichael39

            Read your own reply about trusting human beings…that would be the first place to look in answering this question. Such a hypocrite.

          • R.A.

            Hypocritical isn’t applicable since I have yet to insult anyone. So I’m not sure I follow your logic.

          • jmichael39

            You don’t trust other people to tell you what to believe in the Bible and how to apply it but you want to tell ME how a good Christian should live? Hypocrite. Get over yourself.

          • R.A.

            I understand your position. Have a good evening.

          • jmichael39

            the true irony of your view on this issue is that you trust YOU to know what the Holy Spirit is guiding you to do, but don’t trust the Holy Spirit to guide others correctly…especially when they disagree with you (while ‘coincidentally’ agreeing with the Bible). While my view is that I definitely believe in a God who knew ages before any of us ever had a thought, that billions of us would be reliant upon the Bible to guide us and that He, by His very nature and character, has the wherewithal and the will to make sure that His Word is exactly what we need to guide us. OH, btw, I also believe in the guiding presence of the Holy Spirit and that His presence will never lead us somewhere contrary to the presented word of God.

            You want to get hung up on the difference between Paul’s instructions and God’s commands, feel free. You need help comprehending the uniqueness of God’s condemnation of some activities while He is willing to suffer the rebelliousness of other sins for a season, that’s your problem. You can’t figure out why Paul would tell women to not speak while also giving several women prominent roles in his ministry, sorry, the answer is obvious, if you’d just read. I honestly don’t care what you think you know better than tens of thousands of theologians throughout Christian history. You’re nothing special in that regard. Now, if you honestly find a question that intrigues you and honestly what to find the godly explanation, come on down…. Otherwise, spare us your self-righteousness and arm-breaking pats on the back.

          • R.A.

            “the true irony of your view on this issue is that you trust YOU to know what the Holy Spirit is guiding you to do, but don’t trust the Holy Spirit to guide others correctly…”

            Not once did I question the guidance of the Spirit in others. The greatest difficulty when listening for guidance lies in differentiating between the still, small voice that is the Spirit and that which is our own. I don’t claim to have all the answers. Never did. I, like the rest of humanity, have opinions, and I, like the rest of humanity, will defend my beliefs. The irony of your statement here statement also cuts both ways, friend.

            “especially when they disagree with you (while ‘coincidentally’ agreeing with the Bible).”

            I don’t mind disagreement. It’s disagreement that has led me to frequently reexamine my positions. I come from an extremely conservative background and have evolved through study and prayer.

            Also, I’m not certain what views you are specifically referring to as “agreeing with the Bible”. I suppose it’s others’ views akin to your own, which is fine. But I again ask for explicit scriptural teaching that inspiration is tantamount to inerrancy. I used to believe in total scriptural inerrancy, but, in my opinion, there is no scripture to suggest that the Bible itself is as perfect as our Lord.

            “While my view is that I definitely believe in a God who knew ages before any of us ever had a thought, that billions of us would be reliant upon the Bible to guide us and that He, by His very nature and character, has the wherewithal and the will to make sure that His Word is exactly what we need to guide us.”

            I agree the Bible is a guide. I disagree that it’s necessary or even possible we reach perfection in our interpretational endeavors. I believe grace covers our interpretational shortcomings, which makes grace and faith all the more precious.

            “OH, btw, I also believe in the guiding presence of the Holy Spirit and that His presence will never lead us somewhere contrary to the presented word of God.”

            The problem with this principle is that it requires us to make no errors in interpretation of God’s Word in order to have this measure of truth of which you speak. I believe the Spirit led us away from slavery against the “clear” teachings of the Bible. Abolitionist had to appeal to broad principles of equality and grace in scripture, while slave owners had verses that more directly addressed and perpetuated slavery. Similarly, God sent a vision to Peter, contradicting Peter’s Mosaic views that Gentiles were unclean. It took a vision to overcome the scripture that Peter held sacred. Sometimes, our view of scripture doesn’t always line up with God. This is why I continually study and pray in an effort to arrive where God wants me, sometimes in the face of my scriptural understanding.

            “You want to get hung up on the difference between Paul’s instructions and God’s commands, feel free.”

            Not hung up. Just trying to rightly divide to the best of my ability.

            “You need help comprehending the uniqueness of God’s condemnation of some activities while He is willing to suffer the rebelliousness of other sins for a season, that’s your problem.”
            There is a certain level of condescension in the tone here. Perhaps it’s just passion bleeding through, I’m not sure. But on a casual read, it feels insulting.

            “You can’t figure out why Paul would tell women to not speak while also giving several women prominent roles in his ministry, sorry, the answer is obvious, if you’d just read.”

            Again, the tone feels condescending. This tone inhibits receptiveness in conversations.

            But to address the point, why does Paul make a blanket statement to a church prohibiting women from teaching men if it’s okay in another context? I’m not sure how the tension melts away from the conundrum just by knowing that women held some type of influence in missions and played vital roles in regards to the behind the scenes orchestrations of the church. Suggesting the answer is self-evident suggests priori assumption or circular reasoning.

            “I honestly don’t care what you think you know better than tens of thousands of theologians throughout Christian history. ”

            Equating difference of opinion to pride is unhelpful. Also, the number of adherents and age of a belief do not make it right. After all, slavery was around for most of recorded history and accepted/perpetuated as the status quo by millions of human beings. Such figures do nothing to bolster the validity of an argument.

            “You’re nothing special in that regard.”

            Not sure how I’ve hurt you to warrant such hostility, but whatever it is, I’m sorry if I’ve offended you in some way.

            “Now, if you honestly find a question that intrigues you and honestly what to find the godly explanation, come on down…. Otherwise, spare us your self-righteousness and arm-breaking pats on the back”

            Directly insulting and condescending. Also, it supposes that people here have all the answers, which comes across as prideful

          • jmichael39

            not a single word to directly respond to anything I said. Typically self-gratifying and astutely illogical. Hope you didn’t spend to long writing all that nothingness. Anyway…keep up the good work. You own condescending approach to virtually every post I’ve read of yours have engendered the responses you seem intent on dismissing.

          • R.A.

            “not a single word to directly respond to anything I said.”

            Actually, I responded directly to the following assertions that you made in the previous post:
            The accusation that I doubt the Spirit guides others as well as myself.
            The assertion that other posters are right on the issues at hand. (Though no reasons were given as to why they are right.)
            The priori assumption that the Bible must be inerrant because God knew we would be reliant on it.
            The priori assumption that the Bible is self evident and can be used to refute or prove alleged guidance of the Spirit.
            The demeaning tone in one sentence suggesting I’m mentally incapable of understanding something without your help.
            The suggestion that reading the rather nebulous descriptions of women’s involvement in church leadership would clear up the tension between said descriptions and Paul’s exhortation to not allow a woman authority over a man.
            The assertion that the age of an argument and its number of adherents make it more tenable.
            And finally ending with another insult.

            “Typically self-gratifying and astutely illogical. Hope you didn’t spend too long writing all that nothingness.”

            A string of ad hominems that address no argumentation from my previous post. Your assertion that it’s void of logic is not proven without counter arguments of your own.

            “Your own condescending approach to virtually every post I’ve read of yours have engendered the responses you seem intent on dismissing.”

            Presenting counter arguments is not dismissive in the least. Were I to insult a poster and his/her argumentation without addressing any of their points, that could be considered dismissive.

            As to condescending, can you please provide me instances where I have been condescending, so I might avoid it?

          • jmichael39

            LMAO…nice try, but no you didn’t. Try again.

          • R.A.

            Okay. Thanks for your time and the discussion. Have a good evening.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Wow. Is there where you come to let off sour grapes about other Christians that you are not willing to tell them face to face wherever it is you go to church? It really seems that this is what you use disqus for.

          • jmichael39

            LMAO…how quaint an argument. The man who comes to a Christian site to spout off his own hatred for Christianity thinks he knows why Christians come to a Christian news site. You must think very highly of yourself to somehow think I come here to speak to people like you. While I admit I do love watching people like you try to explain the essence of your hatred for Christians, I definitely don’t come here for you. One of these days you WILL get over yourself…though hopefully you won’t need asbestos water skis to help.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            You are still operating on the mistaken assumption that you started with when you first jumped into this like a reckless bull in a china shop. I still think that your pride is preventing you from admitting that you failed to read the context in my statement to Gary.

            Are you rhetorically associating “hatred of Christianity/Christians” with my disagreements with Evangelicals or fundamentalists and the fact that I challenge their assumptions? That is a rather silly tactic that is tried all the time and will get you nowhere.

            Any reading of my record of posts will show that I am a Christian myself and do not hate Christianity. It is astounding to witness what your overweening pride has caused you to say and fail to admit in this thread alone.

          • jmichael39

            Read the thread, moron. Gary’s comments aren’t even in THIS thread. Sheesh.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            That is what I was referencing. It appears you can dish it out, but make hasty exits when someone tries to hold you accountable for what you have said.

          • jmichael39

            And yet you still can’t seem to point to a single post from GARY in this thread…to justify your asinine argument.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Since you are wanting to play a game of technicalities in order further to obfuscate your initial blunder, what do you mean by “in this thread?”

            It does not matter because Gary’s beliefs are what I referenced in the statement that you attacked and later tried to cover up by dismissing context out of hand as “window-dressing.” Furthermore, Gary has made comments such as these in the comments section of this article. I know you are aware of this because you said this:

            jmichael39: “If it makes you feel any better, I found Gary’s comments…WAY further down on another thread…nothing to do with what I said about Magi and his comments about fundisi’s post. And I stand in FIRM opposition to Gary’s posts. He does NOT understand the Bible or the biblical views on homosexuality or virtually anything else for which I’ve seen him post.”

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Since you are aware of what Gary believes concerning the execution of homosexuals, why do you insist on prolonging this game of technicalities with me?

            You barged in and took my initial statement as me advocating the execution of homosexuals rather than me questioning Gary’s reasoning and Fundisi’s failure to recognize the hypocrisy of giving him his moral support.

            The only reason that I can tell you have done this, along with the general tenor of your comments to others, is that you are too prideful and obstinate to admit when you misjudged or made a blunder.

          • jmichael39

            First of all, I DID NOT take anything you said as advocating the execution of homosexuals.

            That point of discussion was not even part of this thread…it was part of another thread associated with this article. I had to literally search it out to find it.

            And NOTHING I said implied YOU felt the same way this Gary guy does. So again, I say, GO READ THE DAMNED THREAD AGAIN.

            READ THE THREAD

            I WILL SAY NOTHING ELSE TO YOU UNTIL YOU READ THE THREAD and PROVE YOU HAVE BY APOLOGIZING FOR YOUR ARROGANCE LIES ABOUT WHAT I’VE SAID .

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            jmichael39: “I WILL SAY NOTHING ELSE TO YOU UNTIL YOU READ THE THREAD and PROVE YOU HAVE BY APOLOGIZING FOR YOUR ARROGANCE LIES ABOUT WHAT I’VE SAID .”

            As I have said several times, I have read the thread and have received no other impression than what I have already indicated. That God exacts the penalty of death for rejecting his mercy and grace is precisely the point myself and others were beginning to make to Gary.

            If you think you have some other smoking gun or ironclad argument that you think is being overlooked, then why not come right out and reiterate it? Squealing in all CAPS and playing the victim is not going to accomplish this.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            jmichael39: “You do realize the wages of ANY sin…the ‘prescribed penalty’…is death. God WILL exact the penalty upon those who reject His holy grace and mercy. You don’t like it, talk to Him.”

            This is your original statement to me that was made four days ago. I have done your work for you by dredging it up again. Now, tell me what in the world is so profound about this? What have I overlooked or failed to address?

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            I doubt Mr. Michaels cares. It is all part of his internet badass persona. Ignore the fellow fundies who are calling for the wholesale slaughter of homosexuals and let it rip on them “Catholics.”

          • R.A.

            It’s easy to overlook the flaws of people who are on our side of the argument.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            In all honesty, I cannot see what jmichael39 is going on about. It is mystifying why he entered the discussion in the way he did in the first place.

          • R.A.

            I admit I was actually the one butting in when I noted an ad hominem. I’m quite the butt. 🙂

          • the Colosseum is full

            the idea though is to persuade them to repent and believe rather than look stupid or moronic…lost souls are precious in the sight of God and by the blood of Jesus worth saving if at all possible..

          • jmichael39

            there are some people who are so adamantly unwilling to repent that God could write in the clouds above every nation in every language on earth “Hey guys, I’m real.” and they not only still wouldn’t believe in God they’d likely blame Israel. (stolen from the end of Patterns of Evidence).

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Where have I demonstrated anything like being a “pseudo-intellectual?”

            At any rate, the game you are playing appears to be that of a typical internet badass who as nothing to back up his bite with when “confronted with logic” and having his pride pointed out.

          • jmichael39

            lmao….when you have something intelligent to say, then we can get into it. Until then, I’ll just stick to laughing hysterically at you.

          • Bingo

            That would be impossible.

          • Fundisi

            Ah, but he is a legend in his mind!

          • Fundisi

            Ah, but he is a legend in his mind!

          • pax2u

            from your fellow anti Catholic Gary

            Gary who thinks he is the “true” Christian

            pax2u Gary • an hour ago

            so you would be willing to execute homosexuals?

            Gary pax2u • an hour ago

            Yes.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            No, it just that you hate having your assumptions questioned, whether it is by another fundie or anyone else.

            You fly off the handle and eat your own when it is another fundie or “Bible Christian” that does it. Case in point is your slandering me in the third person here.

          • pax2u

            from Gary who thinks he is the “true” Christian

            pax2u Gary • an hour ago

            so you would be willing to execute homosexuals?

            Gary pax2u • an hour ago

            Yes.

          • ELAINE MARZANO

            jmichael139: I have a question. Why do you carry psalm 139 as an addition to your name? Do you think you fit that particular Psalm. or what meaning does it have for you?

          • jmichael39

            clarify

          • ELAINE MARZANO

            I am sorry, it is just that is the number in the bible for a psalm. and I have never seen those before. I was told to look it up and I did. I was just curious.

          • jmichael39

            I’m still not understanding your question (or if there even is a question). I am very familiar with Psalms 139.

          • wandakate

            People have a free choice now to make their own decisions and to succeed or fail in their spiritual endeavors with the LORD. They either chose to believe, trust and obey, or they chose not to. One is a narrow road leading to eternal life and the other is a wide road (where most people are) that will lead to eternal damnation in hell with the souls that are going to be there. Who’s gonna be in Hell? Satan, all of his demons, the antichrist, the false prophet and every sinning person that never accepted JESUS as their own savior. HE was the “only” way to the FATHER. JESUS said, “I am the way, the truth and the life, and “no man” will come to the FATHER but by me. We must believe on JESUS. Believing on GOD isn’t enough, as He told us to believe on the Son of GOD. JESUS was the one who died for the sins of mankind. JESUS is the one who will come again and receive the Christians that persevere through this coming hell on earth and JESUS is the one who is going to award merits, and crowns and be the judge of all. GOD the FATHER gave all authority to the Son JESUS CHRIST.

          • Bingo

            That’s not our job. That will happen when God rounds up the wicked…dead and alive.

          • jmichael39

            You do realize the wages of ANY sin…the ‘prescribed penalty’…is death. God WILL exact the penalty upon those who reject His holy grace and mercy. You don’t like it, talk to Him.

          • Fundisi

            You desperately need salvation, you need to find Christ and get this hate out of your miserable life and find the love of God before it is too late.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Back so soon?

          • wandakate

            What was the penalty then? Death I think. What is it today, a spiritual death and an eternity in Hell. They “will not” enter the Kingdom of GOD.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            The penalty in the Old Testament was execution by the civil representatives of the community. This is the context of the discussion that we have been carrying on with Gary and Fundisi. Gary believes that homosexuals should be executed according to the Old Testament legal statutes.

          • wandakate

            I think that it’s up to JESUS what will happen to these people. Only JESUS knows it all. He’s the one who knows the true condition of our heart, therefore He is the one that GOD the FATHER has appointed to be our Mediator as well as our final judge. So, man can’t rightly judge people or how they conduct their lives, it’s up to JESUS. The Bible tells us not to judge others, for as we judge them, so shall we be judged.

          • Bingo

            People who are positional sinners before holy God will suffer the penalty of their sin—eternal death. That’s what God advocates.

          • Ezra Tank

            That same God also approved of SLAVERY, RAPE and MURDER …

          • Fundisi

            No He did not!

          • Bingo

            Maybe your god, but not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. If that’s what you think, then you just plain do not comprehend scripture or God, for that matter. Scripture does not attest to your puerile understanding….it Tanks, Ezra!

          • James Grimes

            Absolute gibberish…

          • Elka

            I don’t have the time or desire to go into every one of these accusations that you brought up, but I will address the slavery one as I have seen it used before and it is GROSSLY taken out of context.

            The slavery described in scripture looked nothing like the slavery that appeared in early America. The slaves described in the passages you mention were actually indentured servants, who sold themselves as “help” to people so they could pay off debts or so they could have food and shelter. This was VOLUNTARY. It was not forced, nor was a certain group of people targeted like the African people were several hundred years ago.

            If you look at Exodus, there are actually passages condemning the kind of slavery we saw in early America.

            “He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.” (Exodus 21:16)

            Also, I can’t think of one passage in all of the Bible that recommends people selling themselves into slavery. Actually, many, many verses in scripture talk about how debt is evil and it makes someone your “master.” The verses that you’re trying to use as a weapon, are actually descriptive of a practice going on in the culture already, and not prescriptive of what people *should* do.

            If you read Philemon, you will see that Paul strongly advises the man to release his indentured servant, Onesimus. This is quite a remarkable show of grace considering Onesimus had years and years of debt still to pay off from his consensual indenture.

            Ezra Tank, if you want to criticize scripture, that’s fine, but please do your homework first instead of just Googling a few things and not looking into their context. It makes you appear uneducated and angry.

          • Andrew Watson

            so tell me what the bible says about gluttony, divorce, and the behavior and dress of women in the church. I used to think like you, but I realized our standards of interpretation on cultural issues were too hypocritical to truly be Gods was. I choose to live by 1 Corinthians 13 rather than Leviticus 18.

          • Bingo

            How do you know how I think?

          • Tom C

            Jesus Himself said that Moses was wrong in giving his commandment allowing divorce for any reason a man could come up with. He said it was given for man’s hardness of heart. So much for infallibility!

          • KenS

            Moses, not God, big difference there!

          • Christie D.

            Well if this is the case Ken, you have stated that all words of the Bible are not straight from the mouth of God. Therefore we should look to the words of Christ, who said nothing against gay marriage or gay people. In fact, quite the contrary.

          • KenS

            First off, the entire word of God is inspired by God, and therefore from God. Secondly, Jesus did not say that Moses was wrong, he only stated that moses by God’s inspiration, granted people this right to a divorce because God knew the hardness of their hearts, He then stated that God’s original plan is that they stay married. That is not Jesus admitting that he is infallible, it is Him admitting that he gives man free will to obey or disobey his commandments. My point is God told Moses to give them theses laws about t divorce as part of his free will, and then Jesus expanded on that free will when he explained that the hardness of their hearts is why God allowed the divorce, but that doesnt not mean that he gladly approves of it, only that he has given us the free will to choose to divorce this person, Jesus then expounds on what God’s heart is on this issue with saying that the only real reason for a divorce should be for fornication. He has in no way admitted to being wrong by doing this.

          • Christie D.

            Ken your comment was “Moses, not God.” If “all” the words of the Bible were “inspired” by God then Moses was “inspired” to write what Jesus corrected. Secondly, “inspired” does not mean zombies wrote the Bible. They were human beings inspired to write about their God as experienced by them in the world in which they lived. Thirdly, you have used interpretational (historical and societal) privilege in the words of the Bible in terms of divorce. It is interesting that you (and others of your persuasion) are willing to “add” these extra interpretations but will not consider the same when viewing other issues (e.g. the “gay” issue). You either take the Bible entirely literally, or none of it. You don’t get to pick and choose. By the way, Jesus never said that the Bible was the inerrant word of God. In fact, no one in the Bible ever did. And the “scripture” that you are talking about as referenced to in the New Testament as being “God breathed” could only refer to the Jewish scriptures (the Old Testament) as the New Testament had yet to be written. So…..let’s get back to that slavery and “traditional marriage” conversation.

          • KenS

            how about Proverbs 30:5, Also, Im not interpreting, I am reading the context and the context clearly shows that Jesus was addressing the hypocrisy and hardness of their hearts when he addressed the divorce issue.

          • Christie D.

            A very pleasant verse: “Every word of God is flawless;
            he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.” God is awesome and His words are flawless. The words of man, however, are not flawless, nor are they a shield I won’t take up space by cutting and pasting what I wrote above. It is a good point you make, however when you say that Jesus addressed the hypocrisy issue, which he did again and again. There is much mention of the hypocrisy about talking about the sin of others while ignoring the sin of judgment and others in one’s own life.

          • KenS

            I agree, which is why I am a member of the local new testament church that I am right now. It takes a stand on people that are openly sinning and does not allow membership to any professing christian that has not dealt with their open sins, now granted, if they are sinning and we do not see such sin, it would be difficult for the church to know and therefore keep the membership clear of that hypocrisy. This is why we are commanded to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, we should be examining our own selves to be sure that we are doing the right things for our Lord and Savior before trying to judge others. This does not mean we turn a blind eye to others who are openly sinning against God, only that we need to be sure our own life measures up first.

          • Christie D.

            News flash Ken: you will never “measure up;” no one can. Therefore you are all continuing to live in grievous sin by believing that you have “dealt with your sin” sufficiently in order to start dealing with other peoples’ sin. The pride is astounding. The Bible says that even our “righteous deeds” are like filthy rage before the Lord. Even the good things we do are frought with sin whether it be pride or other.

          • Christie D.

            Interesting that your church is so focussed on “open sins” when so many are hidden in the dark. For example the sin of pride. The sin of judgement. The sin of impure thoughts. The sin of selfishness. There will never be an end to dealing with our own sin. The moment you think you have, you become guilty of “original sin” as no one but God is perfect. You cannot be like God therefore you can never judge others. When you make yourself the judge you put yourself in Gods place. Your argument can never hold water. So now back to “loving the sinner while hating your OWN sin.”

          • KenS

            I know that we cannot be like God, and I never, ever said that i believed we could, at least not here in this corrupted body, once we get our glorified bodies via the rapture or Resurrection during the rapture, then we will be perfect. What I was saying is that we are commanded to discipline our brethren in Christ’s love when we see them openly sinning, but we are also warned to make sure we have dealt with our own sins first, lest we be tempted and fall while trying to lift up our fallen brethren, That is the point I was trying to get out, Not that we can become perfect ourselves here on earth in our corrupted flesh, that will never happen.

          • Christie D.

            KenS, as for “sin,” your defining same-sex love as a “sin” is more than debatable, which is why so many churches are changing their tune on this JUST as they did with inter-racial marriage and segregation. You see, those are “Biblical” values as well. Those verses that you quote against gay marriage have been taken out of interpretational, societal, and historical reference and have been used unfairly against a population of God’s people. And yet, those verses ordaining slavery, polygamous marriages, murder and mayhem somehow get explained away using those same techniques. This is why mercy is what is called for; you don’t know therefore you should not judge.

          • Christie D.

            But the problem, Ken, is that you CANNOT judge righteously. And you are not loving “sinners” by alienating them from the mercy of God. Your idea of “sin” is open to interpretation and thus you ought to error on the side of grace. In addition, people of EVERY religion believe that their way is the right way. People follow the religion they were raised with (with some exceptions as can be seen with Christians becoming JW’s etc.) and we’ve all been told from day one that our way is the right way. You know what would be great? Mind your own business: gay marriage will have ZERO effect on you or on your marriage. And you continue to alienate the LGBTQ community (a part of God’s community) by spreading your personal beliefs about what is sin and what is not. And let’s not get into the six excerpts from the Bible about any kind of same-sex issue; they are subject to historical, translational, and societal interpretation as are the subjects of interracial marriage, abortion, slavery, misogyny, etc. That could go on forever.

          • R.A.

            Where does the Bible equate inspired with infallible? They are not synonymous.

          • Bingo

            It goes without saying that anything God has wrought by His inspiration is inerrant and infallible.

            2 Samuel 22:31
            As for God, His way is perfect;
            The word of the Lord is proven;
            He is a shield to all who trust in Him.

            It is important to not get carried away with silly argumentations:

            2 Peter 3:15-17
            And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him— 16 speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.

            17 You already know these things, dear friends. So be on guard; then you will not be carried away by the errors of these wicked people and lose your own secure footing.

          • R.A.

            I humbly disagree. Nothing goes without saying because this creates the problem of circular reasoning or priori assumption.

            The assertion is not that God is fallible, but man, who penned the scriptures. They were inspired but not perfect, as much as you or I can be inspired yet not perfect.

            Paul was inspired, but not perfect. Peter was inspired, but not perfect. Both men were inspired, yet they had to determine what the gentiles had to do to become Christians. If inspired meant inerrant, then there would have never been the necessity for the Council in Acts to determine what Gentiles had to do to be saved, as Paul and Peter would have known the answer without the need for debate. So while Christ isinerrant, his followers were not. And it was these men

          • Bingo

            God is infallible, and as such, He has the ability (much to your incredulity!) to inspire men with particular messages of truth from His mind, transferred to script. Do you find that hard to believe? If so, then why believe God at all?

            Holy Spirit works through the scriptures, speaking His truth to us. There is nothing there that is false.

            I believe what the scriptures say:

            Hebrews 4:12
            For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

          • R.A.

            I certainly believe He can (much to your incredulity), but what in the Bible says he did that? You refer to passages about his omnipotence, with which I have no disagreement. But saying God has the ability to do something is not the same as saying He has done it. I require scriptural support for the assertion that Paul wrote inerrently.

          • Bingo

            The passage is about scripture.

          • R.A.

            May I please see the scripture you use to support the claim that Paul was inerrent?

          • Bingo

            Every writer God used to write His word is inerrant. That you have unbelief in this area is your problem. You go against the grain of all Christians when you put forth your view. You are the one who needs proof for your nonsensical claims, and while you’re at it, do you even read the bible, and if so, why, if it is not to be our standard for truth?

          • R.A.

            But it is priori assumption to make the claim without scriptural support. Simply saying something is true, that God made people inerrent as they wrote scripture, doesn’t prove the assertion.

            Also, the number of people espousing a belief doesn’t make it right. Nor does the age of an arguemnt make it right.

            I do read the Bible. Our standard of proof is Christ, in my opinion. I measure all beliefs against what I believe Him to be saying, as I believe Him to be the only inerrent human to walk the Earth.

            What specifically did Paul write about that Peter calls wisdom from God? After all, not all of Paul’s letters went to the same church. Additionally, Peter didn’t always agree with Paul. (see Paul accosting Peter in Acts and the Council of Jerusalem) Point of proof, Paul doesn’t really mention baptism as a point of salvation, whereas Peter does, both in one of his epistles and his speech in Acts on the day of Pentecost. Does Peter’s inspiration outweigh Paul’s? Or vice versa?

          • Bingo

            Is the bible God’s word or is it not?

          • R.A.

            The first: it’s his scriptural revelation as he would have us to have it. The Bible makes no claim to inerrancy. Paul asserts that the Old Testament is inspired, but does not assert inerrancy. And no claims are made as to the New Testament, which wasn’t composed until over a century later. But I believe scripture is God’s revelation of Himself through the words of man. Do I believe it’s God talking when Paul says those preaching circumcision should castrate themselves? No. Or when the Psalmist wishes for babies’ heads to be dashed against rocks? No. Or when a Hebrew slave owner may beat his slave within an inch of his life and suffer no repercussions as long as the slave lives a few days before dying? No. But I believe the Bible has gotten to us as God wanted it to.

            I believe Christ Jesus was God incarnate, yes.

          • Bingo

            Psalm 18:30
            This God—his way is blameless.
            The word of Yahweh is flawless.
            He is a shield for all those who take refuge in him.

            Proverbs 30:5
            Every word of God is flawless;
            he is a shield for him who takes refuge in him.

            Psalm 12:6
            The words of the Lord are pure words,
            like silver refined in a furnace on the ground,
            purified seven times.

            Either you trust God’s word as a whole, or you do not. Apparently, you don’t trust God through the hard parts. He doesn’t say it is only partly true or partly pure. To discount any part of the word of God as not factual or errant, is to discount who God is, and reveals a problem with understanding that God is omnipotent and omniscient, and that you have set yourself up as a judge and an examiner. The word examines, YOU, not the other way around! (Hebrews 4:12)

            Hebrews 4:12
            For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any double-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, both joints and marrow, and able to judge the reflections and thoughts of the heart.

            The bible is reliable as our only source of truth in matters of faith and the practice of it…if you cannot rely on God’s word, then what have you got? Nothing much. Your own mind is not a true arbiter of what is true! As Jesus was abandoned by people who found His sayings hard to believe, He asked those who remained if they would also leave….

            John 6:67-69
            Then Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked, “Are you also going to leave?”
            68 Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words that give eternal life. 69 We believe, and we know you are the Holy One of God.”

            Instead of declaring with your weak human understanding that the bible is not reliable for truth, do as the Lord commands—study it and know that it is the truth. Be that approved worker He desires you to be, rather than proving the opposite, that you do not know, or understand or believe the scriptures to be an issue from God’s very mouth to your heart—difficult passages and all. Exercise your faith.

            2 Timothy 2:15
            Work hard so you can present yourself to God and receive his approval. Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth.

          • Paul Q4T-(John 8:32)

            A physician went to the spiritually perverted sick fellow. Administer to them the right prescription in the right proportional dozes. The WORD. Do not give them an OVER DOZE – A RELIGIOUS SPIRIT.

          • Bingo

            Over DOZE, is right–because I could fall asleep with the carnal nonsense I encounter daily on these kinds of internet pages…but I expect you mean overdose. The religious spirit rejects certain things in the scriptures because they are hard to believe, and rather attaches a spiritual meaning of one’s own crafting simply because it makes it EASIER to believe.

            That is not wisdom. It is foolishness.

          • Paul Q4T-(John 8:32)

            Yes I mean overdoze.

          • Paul Q4T-(John 8:32)

            John 1: In the beginning there was the WORD and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD became flesh.
            Genesis 1: God spoke and whatever He uttered became.
            The Heavens opened and the SPIRIT in form of a DOVE descended and settled in Jesus the Christ.
            God is a SPIRIT.

          • Bingo

            I’m sorry you do not have strong faith in God and what He can do and has done.

          • R.A.

            Suppose we allow this reply to be true; that fact doesn’t refute my argumentation. This is what is called ad hominem. An insult or questioning of the opponent’s character does not address the opponents argumentation. The worst human being in the world can say one plus one is two; therefore, someone’s character is immaterial when it comes to the arguemnt itself. Please address my argument, not my character. Otherwise, my arguemnt stands.

          • Bingo

            No ad hominem was made concerning character, but lack of faith in who God is and that all He does is perfect—is an issue, and can be easily remedied.

          • Bingo

            Baloney.

            God does say homosexuality is an abomination. He did write the bible through His great ability to inspire men with His unmistakable truth.

            “Homophobic” is a new word and it doesn’t represent anyone in the cultures covered in the scriptures.

            Typical of people who have been compromised by the subtle (and blatant) lies of the enemy of God to claim God as unloving and divisive. When one follows after or approves of lifestyles of sin, one will always consider God unloving and divisive.

            Matthew 10:34
            [ Christ Brings Division ] “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

            Luke 12:49
            [ Christ Brings Division ] “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

            Luke 12:51
            Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division.

            Do you not like Jesus, now?

          • SirRobertson

            So you’re actually saying your opinion is above the Bible. How is it exactly that straight, normal people are homophobes but sodomites aren’t heterophobes? I’m 100% straight and believe sodomy is 100% wrong but I have no phobia (irrational fear) of sodomites. To disagree is not defined as an irrational fear.

          • DTJO

            No I am not. I am saying I trust the inner guide that we all have to know the difference between justice and injustice. I never said that straight people are homophobes. I said that it is a common belief in the area where the Bible was written.

          • R.A.

            Did you know heterosexuals can also be sodomites, and not all gay people are sodomites? Lesbians aren’t sodomites.

          • jmichael39

            What good is that bible then? If you cannot believe one part of it then who gets to determine which parts are right and which parts aren’t?

          • DTJO

            The Bible is wonderful document filled with truth. We know what to believe because of he spirit of truth that Jesus gave us. We know because the truth is in harmony with love and peace and justice.

          • jmichael39

            sounds more and more like you want to be able to make your own choices on what is right and what is wrong in the eyes of God. That’s fine. Its nothing new. But don’t be surprised when you face the same consequences as the first people who thought they could make their own choices on what’s right and wrong.

          • R.A.

            All or nothing? What about these?

            34The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. (1 Cor. 14)

            14Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; (James 5)

            But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. 6For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. (1 Cor. 11)

            As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves! (Gal. 5:12)

            14Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him.
            (1 Cor. 11)

            27’You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard. 28’You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the LORD. (Lev. 19)

            20All the brethren greet you. Greet one another with a holy kiss. (1 Cor. 16)

            9Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness (1 Tim 2:9–women can’t wear costly clothes, braid their hair, wear gold or pearls)

            1“When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out from his house, 2and she leaves his house and goes and becomes another man’s wife, 3and if the latter husband turns against her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her to be his wife, 4then her former husband who sent her away is not allowed to take her again to be his wife, since she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the LORD, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance. (Deut. 24–remarrying your first wife after she’s been remarried is an abomination [the same Hebrew word used to describe men sleeping with men as with a woman])

            Our struggle to determine which parts are applicable to us is simply interpretation, unless you say all of the above apply.

          • jmichael39

            Oh I really want to see where you’re going with this. Please keep going.

          • R.A.

            Just to demonstrate that no one is an “all or nothing” adherent to Christianity. I know the typical rebuttal involves a delineation of moral versus civil or cultural mores, but scripture makes no such distinction. Some human being decided there was a difference between types of Pauline regulations, and I’m not apt to trust human beings to determine the will of God for me. I prefer to ask and wait for guidance.

          • jmichael39

            All or nothing adherent to what? To what the bible says? To the morals of the Bible? To what various denominations say the bible says? what? Make yourself clear for once.

            Scripture DOES make delineation between cultural mores and civil AND divine. Read the verses your posted. Its right there…though you may actually have to read the context of the passages instead of conveniently pulling them out of their context.

            You’re not apt to trust human beings to determine the will of God? You don’t get to tell God how to present His ‘guidance’ dude.

          • R.A.

            Most Christians claim 100% adherence to the Bible.

            In what verses might I find a dissection Paul’s exhortations into cultural and moral? In the verses I posted, where does Paul classify his commands as one or the other?

            Straw man on the last bit. I made no assertion as to how God should present his guidance. I said I was leery of people making definitive claims as to God’s will.

            Also, the tone of the last reply was a bit snarky. May we keep this respectful, please?

          • Stevo

            You are wrong, exchanging the truth for a lie. You are free to receive a lie if you choose, but do not perpetuate it upon others. The reasoning you have received is to simply accommodate what it is YOU want to believe.

          • Jon Peterman

            prove these changes

            we have over 20,000 remnants and whole bibles from antiquity that would prove you wrong

          • Stevo

            If the very, physical enormous hand of God wrote His Word in the stone of a mountain in plain open view of everyone, I imagine there are still those who would choose which part of it they would believe.

          • wandakate

            That must be because most humans don’t like to follow instructions, even from Almighty GOD. GOD is a spirit and we are to worship Him in spirit and in truth. People tell me that the 10 commandments are still binding today and yet they pick and chose the ones that are relevant to their own lives. If one counts then they all count. The scriptures say, IF you broke one of them, you have broken them all…GOD took them very seriously.

          • Stevo

            Ok.

          • Jon Peterman

            and Jesus came to what?

            DIVIDE with a sword

          • DTJO

            Jesus came to unite us, to free us from hate, fear, and separation.

          • Jon Peterman

            The Sword of the Gospel
            34″Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35″For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; 36and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

            Matthew 10

            —————————————————
            Not Peace, But Division
            …50″But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! 51″Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.…

            Luke 12

            —————————————————–

            Love Jesus and His word MORE than your family or friends. the words of truth will cause division

            He will separate the wheat from the chaff

          • wandakate

            If one will cross reference the old and new they will find that it does not contradict itself, it all lines up as it should. It was written in Hebrew, then Greek and translated into Arabic, and then Latin and English etc. Not all translations are the same of course as man kept translating from one bible to another.
            As for GOD did not tell us it was an abomination. YES, he did, I found it in Leviticus. The 18th chapter and the 22 verse…THOU SHALL NOT LIE WITH MANKIND, AS WITH WOMANKIND; IT IS AN ABOMINATION TO THE LORD THY GOD. And in Leviticus 20:13…IF A MAN LIE WITH MANKIND, AS HE LIETH WITH A WOMAN, BOTH OF THEM HAVE COMMITTED AN ABOMINATION: THEY SHALL SURELY BE PUT TO DEATH; THEIR BLOOD SHALL BE UPON THEM. Basically what does that say? IF A MAN LIETH WITH ANOTHER MAN AS IF HE WAS A WOMAN (to use for sexual gratification), GOD sees that as an abomination and they were both to be put to death. Because of “their” sin, not b/c GOD wanted to murder people. Our sins will find us out and there are consequences for disobedience. The heavenly FATHER hates our sin and He punishes us accordingly for them.
            If you will study the Bible there are more places that speak of abominations…

          • Victor Blauser

            your interpretation is incorrect. It is not condeming loving homosexual acts, but forced acts that place the receiver on the level of a woman which at the time was considered an act of humiliation and castration.
            There is nothing in the bible that says loving homosexual relationships are sinful. It describes homosexual acts used in sinful ways just as it describes heterosexual acts used in sinful ways.

        • Ezra Tank

          The Bible also approves of Rape, murder, slavery and other lovely things.

          Remember you can’t PICK AND CHOOSE the verses of this ancient book and act divine in your choices.

          RAPE in the Bible:

          If a man is caught in the act of raping a young
          woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.
          Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be
          allowed to divorce her.
          (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

          SLAVERY in the Bible:

          Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect
          and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

          When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will
          not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the
          man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.
          If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.
          (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

          MURDER in the Bible:

          If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife,
          both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

          Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to
          death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

          See my point? You cannot pick the verses you want and ignore these. The book was written by ancient people who thought the earth was flat, the sun revolved around the Earth, and who heard bushes talk to them.

          • Fundisi

            Your false accusations against God are sickening:

            Deuteronomy 22:28
            If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not
            betrothed

            That is, meets with one in a field, which is not espoused to a man; and the man is supposed to be an unmarried man, as appears by what follows:

            and lay hold on her, and lie with her,
            she yielding to it, and so is not expressive of a rape, as (Deuteronomy 22:25) where a different word from this is there used; which signifies taking strong hold of her, and ravishing her by force; yet this, though owing to his first violent seizure of her, and so different from what was obtained by enticing words, professions of love, and promises of marriage, and the like, as in ( Exodus 22:16 Exodus 22:17 ) but not without her consent: and they be found; in the field together, and in the fact; or however there are witnesses of it, or they themselves have confessed, it, and perhaps betrayed by her pregnancy.

            You pull lies out of your atheist playbook, knowing they are lies, but you are desperate to blaspheme God.

          • Stevo

            Truth, but his denial is steadfast and that is the point, he is determined to continue upon his way. Let him go and pray God reaches him.

          • wandakate

            However we are when He appears in the clouds of heaven, that is how we will be. Whatever spiritual condition we are in when our last breath takes place that’s it, we sealed our fate at that point in time. Let me be as they are, JESUS said.

          • silicon28

            Answer one question; granted, in two parts… and I’ll shut up and repent of what you think my sins are forever.

            What do the “clouds of heaven” actually look like? In fact? Where is Heaven? What dimensionality in the multidimensional universe does heaven inhabit? Give something other than some sound bite, sloganeering nonsense and I’ll never say another word and will pray any 4-spiritual laws prayer you ask me to pray.

            (But in the meantime? Typing “JESUS” as all CAPS doesn’t really get you any brownie points on your heavenly mansion reservation, don’t you?)

            Jeesh… Thank God I moved beyond this kind of BS years ago…

          • Fundisi

            Just for your information, though it will not make any difference to you, the clouds figuratively represent the saints clothed in white coming with the Lord.

          • silicon28

            A total non-answer to the question, so no… it makes absolutely no difference. (It’s also more Scripturally unsupported nonsense.) But since you seem to be answering for someone else, how about actually answering the question?

          • Fundisi

            “7BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him,” Rev 1

            “1 Thessalonians 3:13 – To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

            God is outside of space and time, but where God is there is heaven. It is not as much a place as the presence of God. Yet, in Revelations, Isaiah and other places we have very clear descriptions of heaven as a phsyical place where God dwells, where the angels, saints, apostles, prophets all worship God and gaze upon His Throne, where Jesus is now seated with the Father. Yet, we are not fit to understand the Divine until we are prepared of the Lord to enter that place.

          • silicon28

            And Revelation 1:7 (Check your own spelling, by the way, there is no book titled “RevelationS“) means “saints clothed in white?” Where do you get such nonsense? I would check the meaning of the word νεφέλη again… For that matter, try to recognize what apocalyptic metaphor actually is. (Unless, of course, you think that John meant to refer to the Greek goddess Nephele who was the mother of Phrixus and Helle? Or that the “new Jerusalem” will descend on some kind of cosmic elevator from heaven which is “up there”?) For what it’s worth? (And I absolutely assume this idea will be completely anathema to you) You might actually try to read the Bible the way it intends to be read; without all the supercilious layers of religious “meaning” so many seem to insist are needed to actually understand it.

          • Fundisi

            I will waste no more time casting pearls of divine truth to a swine or give spiritual food to a dog. You have a spirit of division and strife driven by an out of control ego – I want nothing more to do with you.

          • silicon28

            A mighty big “log” in your own eye as you point out what you think is a “speck” in mine. But thanks for the pseudo-pentecostal / fundamentalist “reason” why you don’t like getting called out for what’s essentially nonsense. I expect Jesus is also shaking his head at such a Pharisaical attitude…

          • Renard Johnson

            You really think you’re the smartest kid on the block.If so smart why waste your time here with us dopey believers?Just keep reveling in your superiority.I know you will mock and mock that is all you and people of your ilk do.You won’t always be so smug.

          • silicon28

            You want an honest answer to your question? Primarily because it pisses many of us Christians off to listen to such sanctimonious “believers” like yourself who seem to think you are the only Christians on the block. That’s not true; and frankly I’m tired of my faith both getting a bad rap and being misrepresented by a few of you overzealous eager beavers who seem to think they have the only answers and are the only ones who serve the Lord and understand what salvation means. Sorry, but it’s OUR faith also; however much you don’t like that fact or want to be Pharisaical about anyone who disagrees with your dogmatic nonsense… (And by the way? Nice job of threatening me with eternal damnation in your last comment – only one problem with it… I already have a reservation… just like you do…)

          • Renard Johnson

            What utter drivel.You’re both long winded and boring.Like I said you think you’re the smartest kid on the block.

          • silicon28

            Yep… Pretty much assumed you weren’t interested. Keep up the judgmental, holier-than-thou attitude Pharisee; see what Jesus says to YOU one day…

          • wandakate

            GOD according to scripture is a “SPIRIT”, and we are to worship Him in spirit and in truth. However, the scriptures “DO NOT” tell us that people are in heaven or hell right now. Part of your scripture here tells some of that, they will be there at the coming of our LORD JESUS CHRIST will all his saints. These saints are ANGELS!. He comes with a host of heavenly angels and they light up the sky from one end to the other. He comes in the clouds with those angels as they will collect the saved, the body of CHRIST from the four corners of the globe. Heaven is the Kingdom of GOD, and it is a spiritual Kingdom. All of those people are not there yet, according to scripture they are still in their grave waiting to be called up when JESUS appears for them at the “rapture” or the “calling up” of the saints that were dead and buried and those who were also alive at HIs coming…
            We are not fit to understand the divine until we are prepared of the LORD to enter that place, yes, that is very true, and we won’t enter that place until JESUS comes and takes us there.

          • Fundisi

            As I have said, as long as you come to salvation on God’s ground of grace alone and are born again of His Spirit, then I will not engage in endless, divisive debates that only cause division.

            I completely disagree with you about the present state of the faithful departed, I believe in every possible point you are in error, I believe what you are teaching is right out of the 7th Day Adventist play book and are heterodox in this regard. So, what good would it do for us to engage in divisive debates about the matter, I can and do pray that the Holy Spirit will awaken you to the truth about this matter, but no matter what, if you are saved by grace, it is just not worthwhile causing division over this matter.

            One last note, I believe that as I am even now born again of His Spirit, as Scripture tells us, I am already ‘in Spirit’ seated with Christ in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:5-7) and when I cast off this mortal body will experience it fully. In other words, Jesus need not take me there, in Him I am there already.

          • wandakate

            Certainly is not worth any division, just thought it was a debate to see how we see it. I AM NOT an Adventist. What I had said is actually in scripture. If what you say is correct then how would one explain ALL of the many scriptures that tell us the people who are dead are sleeping or they are not aware of anything that is going on around them. If they were already in heaven you would think they would know what was going on…
            The spirit does go to GOD at death but it’s not aware of anything without the person’s body which according to scripture is actually in the grave dead or asleep.
            JESUS said no one had seen GOD the FATHER. He also said that no body had been with the FATHER except himself which came to earth from the FATHER in Heaven. HOW on earth do we explain all that? I have been blessed with the HOLY SPIRIT and I am alive, awake, alert, and aware of the truth.
            Your spirit will leave your body at death and be preserved and rejoin your physical body when JESUS appears again and opens up the graves at which time He will come from heaven with His host of heavenly Angels. The dead in those graves it says will rise up, they are not coming down but rising up to meet the LORD in the air and it says those that remain on earth at that time will also rise up and join all of them in the air. The dead first and then the living.
            I have read all of this in the scriptures, so I guess you are saying that they contradict themselves, otherwise I don’t understand. Appreciate the debate, no division on my part.

          • Fundisi

            No matter your denomination, what you believe on this matter is 7th Day Adventist Doctrine. It is not shared by the Christian Church generally, never has been.

            I invested a great amount of time debating 7th Day Adventists on this matter; and, in response to this false doctrine, I researched and wrote a 144,000+ word doctoral dissertation on the subject. I can say with utmost confidence that you and those like you, on this matter, are deceived or at least grossly ignorant. Worse, it is such a rigid doctrine that nothing will ever convince you and those like you that you are wrong.

            When I think about Paul debating with himself whether it would be better to stay and minister to the Church on earth or depart and be with the Lord and him knowing, if true, he would lie unconscious for perhaps centuries in the grave, I can only think he must have been a lunatic to even think he might prefer a long dirt nap to staying here to minister. If you are right, he was not God’s anointed, because he was insane. As there is no way he could imagine sleeping for perhaps many centuries would be in any way, shape, manner of form be a good thing. No Christian on death expects a long term spiritual coma, but to instantly be with the Lord and very much conscious.

            II Corinthians 5: “1 For we know that if the earthly tent [physical body] we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent [physical body], we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now
            the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has
            given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. 6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord.”

            I will regret this, because I really do not want this conversation at all, the above has nothing do do with being resurrected, in our immortal bodies, but taking on our heavenly, Spirit dwelling/tabernacle until that day. The grave is a metaphor as is sleep, death only and always speaks of some kind of separation, never annihilation or some long term spiritual coma. To the lost, they are forever separated from their physical bodies and from God, but as in the literal story Jesus tells of the rich man and Lazarus, the lost remain very much conscious and in torment after they are separated from this life. For the redeemed, when they die, they are separated from their bodies, but like Lazarus very much conscious in Paradise, as was Abraham. Jesus tells us that God is NOT the God of the dead, but the living. Further, the redeemed being part of the Spirit Body of Christ, to accept your death tale, part of His body would have to be unconscious and/or annihilated until the Resurrection, which is insane.

            I just hate this conversation, it will get us nowhere, it is a vain disputation about a matter that does not touch on the Gospel.

          • chatnboy

            ok….explain what Jesus meant when he told the other man on the cross that “TODAY THOU SHALT BE WITH ME IN PARADISE!!!”

          • wandakate

            If you have read what this originally said in the Hebrew, you will realize that they wrote then without any commas, periods or exclamations, no questions marks either. So when it was translated into English there was a comma, however it was in the wrong place. Also if you will recall JESUS didn’t go anywhere after He was taken down from the cross except to the tomb. He DID NOT say… “I tell you this, today you will be with me in paradise”…NO, he actually said, “I tell you this today, you will be with me in paradise.” JESUS knew that the thief would be with Him in the future when that time comes at the resurrection of the dead, but it was impossible for it to have been that very day, since He went into the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights at that time…The thief was buried also and he will go to be with JESUS when he is resurrected.

          • RW Goodwin

            What you are actually propagating is soul sleep – that is not really Scriptural…

          • RW Goodwin

            To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord… Your last breath here is your first there…

          • wandakate

            Only the spirit leaves the body at death, then we go to the grave and wait there until JESUS comes and opens the graves.

          • RW Goodwin

            Believe me – their soul is in heaven…

          • wandakate

            The bible doesn’t say we go directly to heaven when we die…Where do you locate that scripture? We die, and it says, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. The spirit is what leaves the body at death and goes up to GOD for preservation but the soul (body) goes in the ground to be reunited with the spirit at the resurrection. Then it will go to the spirit world (the Kingdom of GOD) is a spiritual kingdom, not a physical kingdom. Their new bodies are spiritual bodies and will be as JESUS body was after He was resurrected form the tomb.

          • Mary Taylor

            When did an Angel become a Saint? I’ve never read that. I’ve read the Bible through many times over the years and never saw that or concluded it.

          • wandakate

            Where did I say that an Angel was a saint. The Angels are only angels, not saints…The saints are the body of CHRIST, the saved true Church, the people, and they are not Angels, just saints. As far as I’m aware there are no Angels that have become Saints…

          • Anthony Rollins

            He that commits sin belongs to his father the devil, 1John ch3 v8, if you not “born again”, spiritual re-birth, you going straight to torment in the lake of fire see John ch3 v3 to v12,
            & Revelation ch21 v8.

          • Dixie Burge

            You’re talking to believers here, not God. We don’t know all the answers, but you will surely use our inability to answer all your questions against us, because that’s what people like you do. Does anyone really know where heaven is? The important thing is, whether you believe it exists or not–not where it is. And what difference does it make whether someone types Jesus in all caps or not? If it makes him feel better, what’s it to you? You’re finding reasons to nit-pick at Christians or the Bible. Would you just as willingly go to a Muslim forum and nit-pick at them and the Koran? You need to get out more, and stop indulging in the atheists’ favorite pastime of trying to shock Christians.

          • chatnboy

            THE FOOL HATH SAID IN HIS HEART THERE IS NO GOD!!!!

          • silicon28

            “But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, ‘You fool,’ you will be liable to the hell of fire…” (Matthew 5:22)

            Looks like you are pretty screwed on at least two of the three here… (But? Really NICE SHOUTING JOB OF SHOUTING!)

          • chatnboy

            Play your games son….because out of the abundance of your heart…YOUR MOUTH DOES SPEAKETH!

          • recarterjr007

            I may not be able to describe the dimensionality (Oops, my grammar check doesn’t like that word, but you sound like a real smart guy, so we’ll just go with it.) of heaven, but I can explain how a speck of matter mystically appeared from nothingness, then exploded, resulting in moral cognition and all the amazing order of the universe. No, really, I can explain it all–you ready? Here’s the explanation: it was a “singularity.” See how scientific I am now? So glad I’m not like those goofy Christians who believe that God created them for fellowship, then gave his only begotten Son so that they could be his children forever, even though they can’t pinpoint the dimensionality of heaven!

          • silicon28

            If you really wanted to be snarky… then you’d have realized that your grammar check couldn’t have cared less about the SPELLING of any word. Beyond that? You should know that even using a word like singularity without bothering to ask where it came from? Don’t know, sounds like you’ve “sitting” under false teaching… (And no, using buzz words that you don’t understand doesn’t make you seem any smarter than does throwing out all the “christianese” slogans that expose your arrogance at judging someone else…)

          • recarterjr007

            I’m thinking … wounded as a teenager? Christian upbringing, maybe even a Christian school education?

          • silicon28

            Good try… But you forgot to mention how you were going to pray for my eternal soul so that I didn’t end up writhing in pain in the eternal lake of fire for all eternity – or to warn me of the same… I.E.? More slogans? You seem pretty good at that from your comments; too bad there’s no real, solid theology in any of them…

          • TLC

            Wow. That’s not judgemental. Tell me again…what is it the Bible says about judgement?

          • wandakate

            Hey Fundisi…I wrote you above about the Sabbath and the generation of man etc. and I respectfully ask you for a reply, where are you?

          • Fundisi

            Just out of the shower!

          • supup

            He quotes the Bible. How is that a lie if you believe the Bible is holy?

          • Fundisi

            The enemy of the souls of the children of God uses scripture to and twists them into lies. He is a deceiver, this person does not say, ‘this is what I believe and this is why I believe it and here are scriptures to support my beiefs.’ He does not say, ‘I think you are wring about this or that and here is why and scripture that I believe argue against you.’ He plays games, word games and is thereby a deceiver, a divisive person.

          • Christie D.

            Fundisi, you claim that others are those who twist God’s words into lies. You have yourself subscribed to the twisting of scripture and are guilty of what you accuse others of. You can continue to quote scripture after scripture, and others can come back with scripture after scripture to counter yours. Best you “love the sinner and hate your OWN sin” as Jesus commands. Spend your time doing what Jesus said to do instead of spending your time telling others what they should be doing. Jesus said to serve and to love. And you doing nothing more than turning a whole bunch of God-created people away from Him. And for that you, and your condemning “church” brethren will answer for. And you will say, “But Lord……and He will say away from me, for I never knew you.” A heart of love is what Jesus wants, not a heart of judgment. Your words turn others away from God. And yet, you will excuse yourself in the name of “love.” Stop trying to pull the splinter out of other peoples eyes, and turn your attention to the log in your own.

          • Christie D.

            And is this twisted into a lie as well Fundisi: “1”Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2″For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.…” God is speaking to you and you continue to ignore. “Away from me I never knew you…..”

          • Fundisi

            It is you that has twisted this passage out of all meaning. We are called to make righteous judgments between good and evil that we might reject the latter in our lives and that judgment extends to the behavior of others that is sinful that we might oppose it, call others to repentance and to life in Christ. It is also necessary to judge the spirits of men calling themselves ministers of the Gospel, that we reject any false Gospel.

          • Christie D.

            Luke 6:41
            “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?”
            No twisting of any verse here. Do not judge. Love the sinner, hate your OWN sin. You need to reject the sin that is in your OWN life Fundisi.

          • Christie D.

            Romans 14:13
            “Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.”
            You can try to explain away your lack of love and your judgment of others, Fundisi, but no matter how you ignore or twist these your words to excuse your disdain for others who do not believe as you do, you cannot escape these words. Bow a knee to the Lord and see that He is speaking to you directly from His word.

          • Christie D.

            James 4:11
            “Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.” You stand in the place of judgment, and God’s command is to LOVE. God is the judge; that’s His job….it’s not your job. Your job is deal with your OWN sin and to love and to serve others. You serve only your own prejudices in your disdain and condemnation for God’s creation. Repent and experience the peace of God. Do not continue in harboring hatred in your heart, because it is destroying you.

          • Christie D.

            Your last sentence about the gospel of Christ. The gospel is the good news that God has forgiven the world thru Christ. The gospel is not that you should condemn or judge others in God’s creation. A false gospel is someone preaching other than the free gift of no condemnation thru Christ. You are yourself misusing the Word of the Lord and falsifying the gospel in order to support your own condemnation of others. Stick to God’s commandment that you preach the good news of Christ. Leave the judging to He who is qualified. Stop crucifying God over and over and over again.

          • pax2u

            sad that Nieman, now known as Fundisi after he was caught lying about the Bible, is willing to condemn all who disagree with him

          • Christie D.

            I know nothing of Fundisi, or Nieman, or however he calls himself. I do know that God loves all of his creation, and I can’t imagine His grief when he sees people demeaning his people and using His name to do it. God did not give us the Bible to condemn or to judge others, but to serve as a guide for how WE ought to live and how to treat others. It also serves to show the mistakes of the religious in the past and should encourage us to not commit the same errors. Jesus had a lot to say to, and of, the Pharisees, yet today’s modern-day Pharisees present themselves as God’s arm of judgment and condemnation, contrary to His words to NOT be like them. Nothing has changed. If you believe in a “time of judgment” it will not be the victims of these people that will be judged. Christ speaks of the judgment of modern Pharisees in the same manner as he did during his time on Earth.

          • pax2u

            I agree with much of what you have posted, I am saddened by those who hate my faith, and want me to be executed by the government, but I will still forgive them and pray for them,

            take care

          • Christie D.

            pax2u: I do not usually write or speak in the “Christianese” that I have engaged in while commenting in this article. I write in this way to meet those that do in “that place” where they are familiar. Personally I find it ridiculous to speak or write in this manner as it is such a false pretense to “speak” for God or to pretend we are familiar with what “he wants” for the lives of people.

          • hapy_thoughts

            Wait?! If she yielded to it, than its not rape? I hope you go to prison and have a real intmate experience with rape

          • Christie D.

            Ah but you have added your own words and interpretations here, haven’t you Fundisi. Yet you don’t allow the same “privilege” to those with other interpretations. It’s gonna stink to be you on judgement day, for it is said that the measure of judgement you levy on others is the measure that will be levied to you. Judge not.

          • Fundisi

            I am born again of Christ, my sins are all forgiven, for me and every true Christian there is no Judgment, no Condemnation.

            My explanations are from a highly reputable Bible Scholar and are consistent with the totality of Scripture.

          • Christie D.

            Oh of course they are Fundisi. Because you listen to “highly reputable Bible Scholars” whose opinions are just as your own. The church is beginning the conversation and many are accepting now because of the study of scripture and the understanding of historical and societal references. Just as these same “Bible Scholars” came out so rabidly against interracial marriage (oh yes, citing the Bible as well), so they do the same with gay marriage. And, as with interracial marriage, the church will look back upon this time as an “aberration” in the teachings of the Christian church; just like when we look back at the time of the Salem Witch Trials, the Inquisition, the Crusades, segregation, etc. The history of the Christian church is full of errors and misinterpretations of the Word of God. All you have to do is go back and look at the pictures of church people holding signs about how God is against a woman’s right to vote, segregation, and interracial marriage.

          • Fundisi

            A. You reject my own words and you reject the words of biblical scholars, you reject anyone and anything that does not validate your approval of sin.

            B. None of the things you listed involved sexual immorality and while yes the Church with the light they have at any time have erred often, what cannot ever be true is that God would have us approve of sexual immorality, which is idolatry. This is sinful conduct and even if history agrees with you, it will remain a sin condemned by God.

          • Christie D.

            Interesting that my reply to this was not posted. Here we go again.
            A. You, Fundisi, reject my words and you reject the words of Biblical scholars, you reject anyone and anything that does not validate your approval of sin….back at you and your guilt.
            B. So sexual immorality is apparently all that you are interested in, and nothing else. Well here then. It is not considered sexually moral to force a raped woman to marry her rapist. It is not sexually moral to commit incest (Adam and Eve plus sons and daughters = grandchildren?). It is not sexually moral to sell your daughter into sexual slavery or forced marriage. It is not sexually moral to force a woman to be a concubine, or a sister wife. Yet these were all considered a moral practice of the time (ordained of God….even commanded of God in the case of some multiple wife marriages). What changed? God? Certainly not….it was the societal and historical times that the passages were written. As for those writings by men, and chosen by the Catholic church for Biblical inclusion, you have placed your trust in men and not in God. God is not limited to a book written by man, and hand-picked for the Bible by a faulty and corrupt church.

          • Christie D.

            But every “true Christian” would observe this verse, because God says that judgment WILL be levied against those who take His place as judge: “1”Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2″For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.…” God is speaking to you and you continue to ignore. It doesn’t take a “scholar” to understand this verse….and yet you ignore it: “Away from me I never knew you…..” You need to think long and hard about your “salvation.”

          • Fundisi
          • Christie D.

            Since you say you use “scholars” as your interpreters, here’s one for you in excusing yourself from this verse:
            Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible
            Judge not, that ye be not judged. This is not to be understood of any sort of judgment; not of judgment in the civil courts of judicature, by proper magistrates, which ought to be made and pass, according to the nature of the case; nor of judgment in the churches of Christ, where offenders are to be called to an account, examined, tried, and dealt with according to the rules of the Gospel; nor of every private judgment, which one man may make upon another, without any detriment to him; but of rash judgment, interpreting men’s words and deeds to the worst sense, and censuring them in a very severe manner; even passing sentence on them, with respect to their eternal state and condition. Good is the advice given by the famous Hillell (u), who lived a little before Christ’s time;
            “Do not judge thy neighbour, (says he,) until thou comest into his place.”
            It would be well, if persons subject to a censorious spirit, would put themselves in the case and circumstances the persons are in they judge; and then consider, what judgment they would choose others should pass on them. The argument Christ uses to dissuade from this evil, which the Jews were very prone to, is, “that ye be not judged”; meaning, either by men, for such censorious persons rarely have the good will of their fellow creatures, but are commonly repaid in the same way; or else by God, which will be the most awful and tremendous: for such persons take upon them the place of God, usurp his prerogative, as if they knew the hearts and states of men; and therefore will have judgment without mercy at the hands of God.”
            You ignore this verse and you have seen the consequence. Your pride keeps you from bowing a knee to the Lord and what He is telling you.

          • pax2u

            Neiman had to change his name when he was caught lying about the Bible to support those who agreed with his hatred

          • pax2u

            those who can not support their faith or have no faith will always use a web site or a you tube video, rather than the Bible

            but then some will lie about the Bible to support those who agree with their hatred of Christians,

          • Jenni Lovsey

            Are you an idiot!!??Or do you go out of your way to act like one?

          • wandakate

            Because we are under the “new” covenant JESUS came to make all things new. That is all in the old testament, which will show us laws and things that GOD detest, however they were all laws that the Jews were expected to go by. Our 10 commandment laws were intended for “ALL” people, not just the Jews. JESUS never abolished them. They were to be effective forever. In fact, in the new testament JESUS said, “IF you love me, keep my commandments”. He was in fact serious about that. The 10 commandments of the Moral Laws of GOD. All of trivial rules and regulations of the law that were given unto the Jews were not intended for everyone for all times, only for the Jews in their day and time.
            JESUS made the old Jewish laws obsolete and the new laws come in. Nowhere in the Bible will you find where the 10 commandments have been “done away with”. We can ignore laws that were for them (sacrificial, ceremonial and common). We are not under those laws over 600 of them. When people get to the new heaven and the new earth they will obey the LORD and they will honor His Sabbath. He told us to keep His Sabbath Day.

          • Rod Newstrom

            Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

          • R.A.

            And everyone walked away, didn’t they?

          • wandakate

            All have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD. We sin and we confess it and repent of it and hopefully forsake it. We get saved, we get baptized down into the water (not sprinkled) and we receive the power of the HOLY SPIRIT so that we can be led into all truth. I have to account to GOD and thankfully not to man.

          • R.A.

            May I ask for verses that divide the Law into moral, civil, and ceremonial? In my opinion, these divisions were man-made.

          • wandakate

            There were over 600 Jewish laws and those laws were what CHRIST came to abolish so the people would not have to live under that burden any longer. JESUS thought they were unnecessary. He healed on the Sabbath Day b/c He could do that, as He was the one who created the day in the first place. He could do as He pleased, but they wanted to persecute Him for breaking one of the rules that they made, (man-made laws).
            There were the Moral laws which were the 10 Commandments, and they still apply they didn’t just disappear did they? The 4th one even says, Remember…Why would it say to remember something that GOD wanted us to forget? As for the rest of them, they were Civil and Sacrificial, as well as ceremonial. They were not necessary, they were just a shadow of things to come. JESUS came and fulfilled all of those ridiculous laws and even said, I am LORD even of the Sabbath day. We all have our own opinion and that’s fine, but there is nowhere in scripture where it says that our 10 commandments are obsolete.

          • R.A.

            All of this argumentation is outside of scripture, right? But where are the verses saying to dismantle the Law into these categories? Also, where did Jesus say they were unecessary? In what verse does he say this?

          • wandakate

            I honestly would like to have the spare time to sit here and type all of that out to you, but I do not have it. Too many other things to get done.
            In the entire New Testament JESUS doesn’t mention all of those 600 plus laws. He said that He came that we might have life and have it more abundantly. He said, “I am the way, the truth and the light, and no man can come to the FATHER but by me. Only though JESUS can we get to the FATHER, that’s just one example of where He said, it’s not the 600 plus laws of man, but that HE was the only way. He also reminded us that His commandments still stood the test of time when He said, “IF you love me, keep my commandments”. I suggest if you really want the answers to study the scriptures for yourself as I have absolutely no need to sway you from the truth. I am gaining nothing by sending you down the wrong path. I want you to know the truth so the truth will set you free, but to find certain passages among hundreds of them is time consuming. If I happen to run into it I will write, but otherwise no. Please search and you will know. The old Jewish laws were then, JESUS is what’s important now and His 10 commandments the MORAL laws of GOD still apply, they were “never” done away with. We still can’t murder or steal or commit any of them according to GOD. JESUS said, “If you broke one of the least of the commandments, you have broken them all”.

          • James Grimes

            Anyone who has seriously studied the Bible knows what you mean and will agree with you. Atheists, pseudo-Christians, and apostates will argue with you on this and they have no clue what it is that you are talking about.

          • R.A.

            I ask because I’ve never found a scripture that calls for a distinction of cultural, civic, and moral law. Paul never mentions any. Neither does Peter. That’s why I ask.

          • the Colosseum is full

            carnal reasonings is what you have here conjecture 🙂
            I have the goods lol 🙂
            the Laws of God are written in my heart line upon line and precept upon precept 🙂 lol
            some of them are exceeding great and precious promises.. which has provided for me the divine nature , which is what every child must have , being transformed from darkness to light…

          • the Colosseum is full

            we are not required to keep the ten commandments we have fulfilled them all in Christ forever lol 🙂
            if you are thinking you are keeping his commandments you have failed and will be sadly disappointed before the throne..your own self righteousness will be your undoing…
            those of us in Christ Jesus are set free from the law of sin and death ..
            I am crucified in Christ nevertheless I live yet not I but Christ lives in me and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loves me and gave himself for me..
            this is the gospel .. the good news which we can live by faith in him ……………………..this creates a true love relationship with Him. 🙂 lol

            by the way I broke the first commandment before I took my first step in Christ ..actually while he was blessing me with the Holy Spirit..he waited 33 I/2 years before telling me 🙂 lol
            my response to him was …. ” God….. You waited Jesus’ entire lifetime on earth before telling me ???????” that was 4 years ago . 🙂

          • Stevo

            Good stuff, all of it, but not not a perfect solution. Remember, Christ came to fulfill the requirements of the law and to offer himself as a sacrifice for sins, AND offer a path to a better way. You will have to do better than that to try and debunk the Truth.

          • wandakate

            I agree that JESUS came and the old Jewish laws which were the
            sacrificial laws
            common laws
            ceremonial laws
            and all the other unnecessary laws were all done away with at the cross of Calvary. JESUS was our sacrificial lamb. They didn’t need any of the sacrifices any longer or any of the other list of do’s and don’t of that day and age. However, the Moral Laws of GOD, were “never” done away with and they were the BIG 10 (the 10 commandments). We are still to obey “all” of them and we do not do that.
            It can be done “IF” a person has the HOLY SPIRIT, they are able to withstand temptation and the wiles of the devil and obey them in order to please the LORD. Not in order to win His favors, or in order to be saved, because we are already saved. We are saved by His enormous grace. We may still have to suffer in this life, even be martyred for our faith in Him, but our “spirit” will be with the LORD and that is all that matters.

          • Alistair

            it is interesting to note when speaking about in the NT that all the other commandments we re-emphasis except…when Jesus quote the commandments to the rich young ruler.

            Paul told the colosian church,” do not let any one judge you in… sabbaths. it includes sabbath with the ceremonial practices note that the sabbaths was plural that includes all the sabbaths of the ceremonial law and the Commandments.. tha’s why Paul continue to encourage Christians to be fully convinced in regarding a particular let it be unto the Lord, because there remains a true rest for the people of God.

            Jesus gives true rest (Sabbath) Come unto me and I will give you rest. It’s His Holy Spirit when He fills you with it. This is the rest which cause the weary to rest and this the refreshing yet you would not hear..
            Enter in to his true rest today..

          • Stagea

            They were no Jewish laws. If you want to see Jewish laws, go and read the Jewish Talmud. Jesus was not a Jew ! Israelites were not Jews either.

          • James Grimes

            You don’t know the Bible well enough to use it as a weapon. Your comments are meaningless.

          • supup

            How is he wrong?

          • silicon28

            You are perhaps (as much as I am) aware of how any rational argument automatically has a copy and paste answer. Any rational and faithful dialogue and discussion is practically impossible with those so dogmatically sure they are speaking for God in matters like this. Hence the reason why it’s pretty factual to admit that there are at least two “Christianities” now being practiced in the western world. Sad to see what Jesus came to institute has become so perverted by so many…

          • the Colosseum is full

            not true at all . judge righteous judgment .. the Lord is coming for a glorious Church without spot or wrinkle… everything is working out according to his divine will .. he will get what he is working for ..
            each of us ought to take heed to be what he is looking for .

          • silicon28

            You are perhaps (as much as I am) aware of how any rational argument automatically has a copy and paste answer. Any rational and faithful dialogue and discussion is practically impossible with those so dogmatically sure they are speaking for God in matters like this. Hence the reason why it’s pretty factual to admit that there are at least two “Christianities” now being practiced in the western world. Sad to see what Jesus came to institute has become so perverted by so many…

          • treebird

            Don’t confuse what God approved of and what the people did and allowed in their civilization. they had their apostate leaders back then too. Just because it is discussed in the Bible does not mean it was there as an endorsement. The Bible tells the story of the lineage of Jesus, which includes the good and the bad.

          • KRISTEN SMITH

            Because God cares about respecting one another. In those “ancient times” a woman who was not a virgin had a slim to no chance of being married (and marriage was a very important “accomplishment” in that [context]–if she is good enough to “rape” then she is good enough to have as your wife for the rest of your life–and don’t divorce her because you “changed your mind”). It basically is a protocol to hinder men from violated a woman without accountability. Slavery sounds more like an occupation–I am a “slave” to my boss– and males and females served different occupational “roles” — and if a man “sold” his daughter– it was more like a contract for “work” — and also, many times in scripture it references the “blood is on their heads” if you were having to “execute” someone for the willful acts they chose to commit (that bore the consequence of death). So perhaps you having a discussion as to why “christains” do not “put to death” adulterers and homosexuals still would be warranted–but your comments as if scripture supports rape, slavery and murder (as words can hold various definitions and context) is rediculous.

          • Oboehner

            You seem to pick and choose which translation to attempt to prove some point.

        • Cheryel

          Your English translation of the original Hebrew says homosexuality is an abomination. However, the original Hebrew says copulation with Baal fertility priests is an abomination. The biblical name for homosexuals was sarisim yeleed, born eunuchs, and the only time they’re mentioned in the Bible is by Jesus in Matthew. You’re condemning souls for whom Christ died based on your inability to read Biblical Hebrew.

          • Fundisi

            Christ died for all, but that does not mean you are correct about homosexuals.

            The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives
            them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.

            Homosexuality is akin to idolatry, the worst form of idolatry, sexual love for one’s own gender!

          • Cheryel

            Fundisi, Let me be clearer. What you are reading in your English translation is not what God said in the original language. I am completely familiar with the scriptures you posted. In English and in biblical Hebrew. I could sit down with you and write them out for you in the original language, showing you how your English version is in error. But shouldn’t it be enough for you to question that if that’s not what God said originally, what exactly did He say? I want to let you know that I am a born-again, Spirit filled believer, and Jesus Christ is Lord of my life. I used to believe as you do. Then I began to study God’s Word in it’s totality, and learned I was wrong. I beg you to do so, also.

        • R.A.

          To suggest that the word abomination speaks to the level of sinfulness of an act doesn’t quite work since we readily overlook the following abominations, all of which are paired with the same Hebrew word “Toebah” or “Toevah”: Now to say that this abomination is homosexuality is problematic since there are numerous abominations (Hebrew “toebah or toevah”) listed. Here are a few:

          Genesis 46:34–shepherds are an abomination to Egyptian
          Deut 14:13–some types of food
          Deut 24:4–a man remarrying his first wife after she’s already consummated her second marriage
          Prov 3:32–devious people
          Prov 11:1–falsified weighing scales
          Prov 12:22–lying lips
          Prov. 16:5–a proud heart
          Ezekiel 22:11–the act of adultery
          There are also many tie-ins to idolatrous worship and idolatrous paraphernalia.

          Additionally, one cannot say absolutely that Christ wouldn’t officiate a gay wedding without adding to scripture. We can’t say either way because scripture doesn’t allow for us to.

        • James Clarkston

          Yes, it’s an obamanation.

        • Jenni Lovsey

          BS! God NEVER said any such thing! Funny how it’s ALWAYS the holy rollers who like to proclaim who is or who isnt going to “heaven”. Guess what holy roller, it wont be you!

        • az_kikr

          DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST, PLS. HELP US IN PASSING THE INFO. TO CHRISTIANS WORLDWIDE
          PLEASE READ.
          KINDLY REPLACE (DOT) WITH .
          (1) If you’re gay, I want you to know that I don’t hate you
          www(DOT)adam4d(DOT)com/dont-hate/
          (2) History clearly tells the story of what happens next when courts decide the fate of your child and the generations to come. –www(DOT)worldcongressoffamilies(DOT)org
          www(DOT)wcf9(DOT)org/files/2015/06/SCOTUS_Marriage_React(DOT)pdf
          www(DOT)focusonthefamily(DOT)com/socialissues/promos/supreme-court-marriage-decision
          (3) No Court Can Change What Marriage Is –Jim Daly of www(DOT)focusonthefamily(DOT)org
          www(DOT)jimdaly(DOT)focusonthefamily(DOT)com/no-court-can-change-what-marriage-is/
          (4) “Homosexuality Is Not Hardwired,” Concludes Dr. Francis S. Collins, Head Of The Human Genome Project
          www(DOT)narth(DOT)org/docs/nothardwired(DOT)html
          (5) We are committed to helping ex-gays and parents and friends of gays who want help, hope and community.
          www(DOT)pfox(DOT)org/
          (6) We are a coalition of ministries serving those who desire to overcome sinful relational and sexual issues in their lives and those impacted by such behavior, particularly homosexuality.
          www(DOT)restoredhopenetwork(DOT)com/
          THANK YOU. PEACE AND GOD BE WITH YOU ALL!
          ————————-
          HISTORICALLY, WHAT REALLY HAPPENED?
          SINCE APA’S ESTABLISHMENT IN 1890s, APA PIONEERED ALMOST EVERY KNOWN MODERN PSYCHOLOGICAL STUDY. UNFORTUNATELY, ACTIVISTS WITHIN THE APA DID NOT ADOPT THE LEONA TYLER PRINCIPLE WHERE…
          “In essence, the principle states that when psychologists are speaking as members of their profession, any advocacy in which they engage should be based on scientific data and demonstrable professional experience. Perhaps Dr. Tyler, then APA’s president, was able to foresee the day when organized psychology would be influenced by activism, and she wanted to ensure that psychology as a profession would not be eroded.”
          (1) Dr. Nicholas Cummings says that since he was APA president in 1979-80, the group has been “totally hijacked” by the homosexual/lesbian political lobby. “It’s incredible,” he said; having personally seen “hundreds of people change,” the view that all homosexuality is “hard-wired” and same-sex attraction can never be changed is simply “not supported by scientific evidence.”
          www(DOT)josephnicolosi(DOT)com/former-apa-president-says/
          (2) In 2013, 1.6% of UK adults identified their sexual identity as gay, lesbian or bisexual. –United Kingdom’s Office for National Statistics
          www(DOT)ons(DOT)gov(DOT)uk/ons/rel/integrated-household-survey/integrated-household-survey/january-to-december-2013/index(DOT)html

          WHAT’S NEXT?
          More supporters of various “marriage” will come-out sooner than we think because of SC’s approval of same-sex “marriage”. Same-sex “marriage” is now paving the way for more types of “marriages” — lobbyists, activists, and their supporters with their monies will push for POLYGAMY, PEDOPHILIA, BESTIALITY, PEOPLE MARRYING INANIMATE OBJECTS, and more, see this..
          www(DOT)thefw(DOT)com/weirdest-marriages-of-the-world-photos-videos/
          Very soon, majority of America’s SC will approve them too.

          WHAT DO YOU ANSWER TO THOSE WHO OPPOSE THESE FACTS?
          IF UNTRUE, FILE A CASE AGAINST THE SAID INSTITUTIONS SO THERE LICENSES WOULD BE REVOKED AND THEY’LL BE IMPRISONED IF APPLICABLE. I’VE READ ARTICLES AND WATCH NEWS ABOUT SCIENCE PEOPLE BEING UNFUNDED OR UNLICENSED OR JAILED FOR NOT UPHOLDING ETHICAL STANDARDS IN THEIR AREA OF EXPERTISE. 🙂

      • Bingo

        Not true. Christians don’t do such things. Only nominal, weak people who claim Christ but have never experienced Him do that.

      • QuestGirl

        Interesting…. Because I see many self-proclaimed Christians patting their own selfs on the back for their own “good works”. I don’t know how one is to “spread the Gospel” to the “sinner” when Christians only hang with Christians? People can’t change in a day, not a week, nor even in a month. It may take years, if not decades to come to His Light. Should we NOT accept them where they are? As Christ accepts us? They can come, but must remain a part of the congregation, and not placed in a position of teaching and authority within the church.

        Carrie Underwood has missed the boat, “…the people that we ‘want’ to love.” Sorry Carrie, God demands we love everyone and treat them accordingly…not just the ones we “want” to love. Suffice it to say, I find ‘liking’ my fellow man to be far more difficult and complicated than “loving” him.

        • OldArkie

          Likely those who pat their self on the back are only professing Christians, and if a person meets Christ and are saved, they change quickly, they become a new man, new creature, its all in the pages of the Bible.

      • Jenni Lovsey

        Get over yourself holy roller!

      • az_kikr

        DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST, PLS. HELP US IN PASSING THE INFO. TO CHRISTIANS WORLDWIDE
        PLEASE READ.
        KINDLY REPLACE (DOT) WITH .
        (1) If you’re gay, I want you to know that I don’t hate you
        www(DOT)adam4d(DOT)com/dont-hate/
        (2) History clearly tells the story of what happens next when courts decide the fate of your child and the generations to come. –www(DOT)worldcongressoffamilies(DOT)org
        www(DOT)wcf9(DOT)org/files/2015/06/SCOTUS_Marriage_React(DOT)pdf
        www(DOT)focusonthefamily(DOT)com/socialissues/promos/supreme-court-marriage-decision
        (3) No Court Can Change What Marriage Is –Jim Daly of www(DOT)focusonthefamily(DOT)org
        www(DOT)jimdaly(DOT)focusonthefamily(DOT)com/no-court-can-change-what-marriage-is/
        (4) “Homosexuality Is Not Hardwired,” Concludes Dr. Francis S. Collins, Head Of The Human Genome Project
        www(DOT)narth(DOT)org/docs/nothardwired(DOT)html
        (5) We are committed to helping ex-gays and parents and friends of gays who want help, hope and community.
        www(DOT)pfox(DOT)org/
        (6) We are a coalition of ministries serving those who desire to overcome sinful relational and sexual issues in their lives and those impacted by such behavior, particularly homosexuality.
        www(DOT)restoredhopenetwork(DOT)com/
        THANK YOU. PEACE AND GOD BE WITH YOU ALL!

        HISTORICALLY, WHAT REALLY HAPPENED?
        SINCE APA’S ESTABLISHMENT IN 1890s, APA PIONEERED ALMOST EVERY KNOWN MODERN PSYCHOLOGICAL STUDY. UNFORTUNATELY, ACTIVISTS WITHIN THE APA DID NOT ADOPT THE LEONA TYLER PRINCIPLE WHERE…
        “In essence, the principle states that when psychologists are speaking as members of their profession, any advocacy in which they engage should be based on scientific data and demonstrable professional experience. Perhaps Dr. Tyler, then APA’s president, was able to foresee the day when organized psychology would be influenced by activism, and she wanted to ensure that psychology as a profession would not be eroded.”
        (1) Dr. Nicholas Cummings says that since he was APA president in 1979-80, the group has been “totally hijacked” by the homosexual/lesbian political lobby. “It’s incredible,” he said; having personally seen “hundreds of people change,” the view that all homosexuality is “hard-wired” and same-sex attraction can never be changed is simply “not supported by scientific evidence.”
        www(DOT)josephnicolosi(DOT)com/former-apa-president-says/
        (2) In 2013, 1.6% of UK adults identified their sexual identity as gay, lesbian or bisexual. –United Kingdom’s Office for National Statistics
        www(DOT)ons(DOT)gov(DOT)uk/ons/rel/integrated-household-survey/integrated-household-survey/january-to-december-2013/index(DOT)html

        WHAT’S NEXT?
        More supporters of various “marriage” will come-out sooner than we think because of SC’s approval of same-sex “marriage”. Same-sex “marriage” is now paving the way for more types of “marriages” — lobbyists, activists, and their supporters with their monies will push for POLYGAMY, PEDOPHILIA, BESTIALITY, PEOPLE MARRYING INANIMATE OBJECTS, and more, see this..
        www(DOT)thefw(DOT)com/weirdest-marriages-of-the-world-photos-videos/
        Very soon, majority of America’s SC will approve them too.

        WHAT DO YOU ANSWER TO THOSE WHO OPPOSE THESE FACTS?
        IF UNTRUE, FILE A CASE AGAINST THE SAID INSTITUTIONS SO THERE LICENSES WOULD BE REVOKED AND THEY’LL BE IMPRISONED IF APPLICABLE. I’VE READ ARTICLES AND WATCH NEWS ABOUT SCIENCE PEOPLE BEING UNFUNDED OR UNLICENSED OR JAILED FOR NOT UPHOLDING ETHICAL STANDARDS IN THEIR AREA OF EXPERTISE. 🙂

    • JapaneseRamenNoodle

      I’m agnostic and I don’t know much about the Christian religion but even I know that this guy is a crackpot. He should change the name of his religion if he doesn’t want to follow the teachings of Christianity.

      • James Wesley Johnson

        Jesus is lord.
        but that was a great post..that dude is a crack pot

      • Stevo

        That’s impressive and I respect you for that perspective. I do hope you find your way to believe into Christ Jesus. 🙂

      • wandakate

        And I pray that you will change your heart and believe on JESUS, b/c He is the “only” one who can save you from HELL! There are only two places that we go for our eternity, one is up to Heaven and the other is down to Hell. Hell is everlasting torment with satan’s demons day and night. Total separation from anything good and GOD. People do not get out of hell, it’s a one way ticket. You’re life that you live today will determine which life you live them. Some thing when you die it’s over, but that is a lie. Eternity is waiting with your last breath. GOD gives life and GOD takes it away, you have no control when it will happen. It’s not that far from agnostic to GOD, it’s just a short prayer of confessing your sins, repenting of them and asking Him to come into your life and make you brand new (meaning the old you will leave and a new you inside will come) and you can begin to see things in a new way, a new light. You will then want to forsake all your old ways and sins and become new in the LORD. I hope you make that decision.

        • JapaneseRamenNoodle

          Can you speak English?

    • Diane Bryant

      Amen! Love is the first and Greatest Commandment and repentance is the key. It’s not right that we have Biblical principles set aside for all but not all have to adhere to the Bible. I will continue to pray for our church and our nation on this and other issues…

    • Rod Newstrom

      If each and every member of a congregation wants to stand up, name each and every one of their sins, and beg forgiveness for all, then I suppose perhaps they would be closer to being able to cast the first stone. As it stands, I don’t have much interest in “holier than thou art” folks who claim to be Christians but have a hard time accepting that *everyone* is sinful and in need of love and prayer. This is a victimless “sin” and thus a matter for God’s judgment, not man’s.

      • Fundisi

        There are NO victimless sins, others are always impacted.

        To deny people the privilege of coming to a church to hear the Word is one thing, to not offer them the Love of God in us, is likewise wrong; but to allow known and in this case they are known, unrepentant homosexual sinners, to gain membership in the Body of Christ or to serve in ministry is to condone those sins, to stop demanding repentance and thereby cause those souls to continue in their sins and go to hell, not very loving that.

        Among the Body of Christ, God will deal with the hypocrites that also sin, but where their sins are not known or repented; and, when made manifest, they should be called to public repentance, if they refuse, to be cast out of the congregation (membership) until there is a change of heart and they should not be allowed to participate in any ministry until they have, by God’s Power, amended their lives and shown themselves changed.

        In the meantime, confessed homosexuals, being unrepentant, their sins should never be excused or made not to be sin, they should never be allowed membership in that congregation and certainly no ministerial roles until and unless they repent and are converted to Christ.

        • Rod Newstrom

          No victimless sin ? What about those you commit in your thoughts ? Should we allow you to attend church if we know you have sinful thoughts ? How about violation of the dietary restrictions found in the Bible ? Do those sins count, or do we pick and choose which sins matter ?

          In the end, this discussion is about a congregation making a choice. You can make a choice not to attend that church. You probably don’t want to be part of that congregation. Beyond that, you are not the gate keeper of God’s kingdom. You are just a lowly sinner like the rest of us who has perhaps forgotten that he cannot be anything else.

    • CJ

      he was right on the edge with this, I sensed…his favorites were Brian McLaren and other apostate preachers…it was only a matter of time…we need to lift him and his congregation up in prayer-you cannot bless what God has cursed, unless you think that you are above God and His Word…1 Corinthians 5 makes it very clear about immorality and serving in the church…

    • CJ

      1 Corinthians 5…I guess he believes that he is above Scripture

    • Rodney McNeely

      Dear Christians,

      When my 2-year-old grandkid talks to his imaginary friend, it’s kind of cute.

      When grown adults like yourselves do it, it’s downright pathetic.

      Grow up.

      • Fundisi

        Since I talk to God and in many ways He talks to me and answers prayer, if He is imaginary, He is a most powerful and communicative illusion.

        • Rodney McNeely

          I spent 27 years in the Pentecostal church, so I know exactly what you’re talking about.

          Neuroscience can explain perfectly well what that inner dialogue is. No magic involved.

          In the same way that demonic influence and witches’ curses have given way to the Germ Model of Disease, neuroscience is on the verge of being able to explain those (not-for-long) inexplicable things going on inside our awareness.

          ~HUGS~

    • Jenni Lovsey

      Still going by what Paul said are we? Jesus NEVER said a word about homosexuality, but of course holy rollers like to pick and chose what a book that was written by and perverted by MAN!

      • Fundisi

        The Spirit of Christ inspired every word of the Bible and it was that Spirit of Jesus that inspired Paul to write against homosexuality and Jesus spoke out against all sexual immorality.

  • Michael Castner

    What a loving god it must be to hate his own creations.

    • C Fowler

      God doesn’t hate his creations, he hates their sins!

    • Gary

      Why is God responsible for what you choose to do? Are you a robot?

    • Walt Lonsdale

      You might be defining love incorrectly.

    • Peggy Occupy Sterling

      Actually though God doesn’t hate his creation. Its all these false Christians that spew hate for anyone and anything different from themselves that hate God’s creation. Just ask them about Muslims, Buddhists, immigrants, and while most won’t admit it they aren’t to thrilled with anyone who isn’t a WASP.

      • Theresa Easley

        Sounds like you spew hate yourself. Just look at what you typed..lol. Hypocrite.

        • Peggy Occupy Sterling

          I simple stated the truth. That is not spewing hate, it is calling it out when I see it.

          • Theresa Easley

            Calling people false Christians is spewing hate. Just because we don’t support the homosexual lifestyle and say so doesn’t mean we hate them. Granted there are Christians that probably hate homosexuals but not all Christians do and there are even non-Christians that hate homosexuals. I have no problems with Muslims as long as they assimilate and don’t try to change our traditions and the way we do things in the US and that is also how I feel about immigrants that are here legally. I also have no problem with Buddhists, either. I think it is wrong for you to lump us all together (which is what you did). You are the one with a problem.

          • Peggy Occupy Sterling

            Riiiiiiiiiiiight! You don’t hate homosexual but they can’t love whoever they want to they have to conduct their sexual life in a manner that you find appropriate. Well isn’t that a kind and loving attitude. And its OK to be a Muslim as long as you stop following your own religious traditions and assimilate, or in other in other words live their lives as you deem appropriate. So kind of you. Immigrants are OK as long as they are legal otherwise what? It’s OK to hate them? Glad you at least are OK with Buddhists without putting any qualifications on their behavior or did you just for get them. Exactly who did I lump together? Not all Christians I know many who are accepting of other races, religious beliefs, and sexual orientation. I called the ones who are not accepting of others false Christians. I guess that must touch a nerve with you since you have a need to protest my accusation. “The lady doth protest too much, methinks” W. Shakespeare

    • Fundisi

      Hate them? He sent His own, dearly loved Son to suffer and pay the just penalty for all the sins of everyone in the world. He offers us a free pardon, by His Mercy/Grace, all we have to do is accept it and have eternal life with Him. Yes, He offers us all, who are/were His enemies, His Great Love and a free salvation and YOU call that hate? Or, is it hate to you because you will have to humble yourself, ask His forgiveness and accept His Way to salvation?

      • Lisa

        I added the most important word to your sentence: ” Or, is it hate to you because you will have to humble yourself, ask His forgiveness, R.E.P.E.N.T, and accept His Way to salvation?”

    • Jerry_In_IL

      Not surprisingly, you have it backwards – it is the creations who hate God, yet God loved us enough to become one of us and die for our sins so that we might – if we desire – be reconciled to him. You don’t understand that, I’m sure.

    • Carol Cantell Moorby

      He loves the sinner but hates the sin. That’s what the bible says…You have twisted scripture.

  • C Fowler

    So will he stop preaching about how homosexuality is a sin so as to not offend those who are? I believe God hates the sin and not the sinner and we are to love everyone equally but for him to perform marital ceremonies for Gay couples in the church…I feel deep down this is so wrong. God does not agree I’m sure.

    • ma

      Exactly what I was thinking.

    • hangman

      You are wrong, God hates the sinner. You need to read your Bible….

      • GetHubNub

        All are sinners, God loves the sinners more than those who believe they don’t need him because they’re allegedly already good. You just don’t get it yet apparently. Jesus came to save the sinners otherwise He wouldn’t have been needed. All of humanity is fallen. God forgives sin as long as we repent and follow Jesus striving never to do it again and God helps us out with that part too.

        • wandakate

          What is you key word/words here, lets see…AS LONG AS. In other words those are stipulation words. They are like the IF and BUT words in the Bible. Like, “IF you love me, keep my commandments”. So, there is a stipulation word “IF”…Many places in scripture it tells us IF we do this or that, and BUT you can’t be totally saved and continue in sinful behavior. So you are saying that GOD forgives sin AS LONG AS we repent and follow JESUS striving never to do it again. OKAY, good, so as I have said, we are to 1. confess, 2. repent, and 3. FORSAKE the sin. When a homosexual marries another homosexual that is not forsaking their sin. That is blatant misbehavior and disobedience to GOD. Plainly saying to GOD, “We both know this is not what you approve of, BUT, we are going to do this anyway and nobody is going to stop us”. So they will spend eternity in hell b/c they are stubborn and want it their way instead of GOD’s way. It’s the “ME” mentality. It’s a self serving attitude.

      • kamunrah

        Are you referring to Lavey’s bible?

    • hangman

      Psalm 5:5, “The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,”
      Psalm 11:5, “The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates.”
      Lev. 20:23, “Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them.”
      Prov. 6:16-19, “There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers.”
      Hosea 9:15, “All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels.”

    • http://www.OpenAirSeattle.blogspot.com/ OpenAirSeattle

      You feeeeel this way because your conscience bears witness with the Word of God. It’s wrong! It’s a sin! God says so! Your conscience agrees with the Holy Spirit.

      John 16:7-9New American Standard Bible (NASB)

      7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the [a]Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8 And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

      • wandakate

        The soul (person) who has received the HOLY SPIRIT will be led into “ALL” truth and will know what is right and what is wrong according to the wishes of the LORD. Without the guidance of the HOLY SPIRIT this pastor doesn’t have a right answer. He is certainly not pleasing the LORD in his decisions at that church. I hope that he reads all these comments (doubtful) but he might, and weigh it all out in his mind and see where he is in error. He apparently does not have the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT and therefore doesn’t know the truth. When you know the “truth”, the “truth” will set you free.

    • Joseph White Jr

      They don’t preach on sin like Joel Osteen

    • wandakate

      WHEN the blind lead the blind they both fall into the ditch. He is just telling them that it’s all okay, we love and accept you just as JESUS would do. This pastor doesn’t know JESUS very well…Just b/c a man is a pastor doesn’t mean he knows the Bible (the word) or practices it in the pulpit. It’s about numbers in the churches and the money in the offering plate. The more of them he accepts the more money they will have. Maybe Christians should wake up and have some common sense.

  • robertzaccour

    As Christians we are called to love others and to obey God. We should love all people. That doesn’t mean we have to accept their sinful lifestyles as being good or ok. A Christian by definition is a follower of Christ. If you’re not following Christ you’re NOT a Christian. As Christians we are to die to ourselves, live for God, and stand firm in our faith according to God’s word no matter what. That’s what “the church” was always supposed to be. Before it got comfy.

    • GetHubNub

      That doesn’t mean to invite homosexuals into your church in approval of their sinful lifestyle. There is no such thing as a homosexual Christian, they won’t make it into the Kingdom of God. They are in the churches to cause problems.

      • robertzaccour

        I didn’t say I approve of their sinful lifestyle, although I do believe they should be invited to church. We can hate their sin without hating them. Jesus came to heal the sick. We need to invite people to church regardless of their lifestyle, without compromising our faith.

        • Fundisi

          I agree invite them to the church services, but not embrace them as brothers in Christ or as workers, absent repentance and a new spiritual birth in Christ.

          • redlady763

            First of all, the church is not for the unsaved! The church is for the saved, to hear and be edified by the Word…..and then, go out and preach the gospel! Once a person receives Christ, THEN they go to church to be part of the body. I’m surprised you don’t get that.

          • Fundisi

            I understand what you are saying, but surely you would not deny sinners, people being led by the Spirit to Jesus from coming into the services and hearing the Gospel, or would you? There is a great difference between those in trouble seeking a church service in their desperation and pain; and making them members or giving them any role in ministry, isn’t there?

            I cannot imagine Jesus saying to anyone coming to Him, you are not welcome here. People that need Jesus are drawn to Him and where do they think of Him when they are lost, yes inside the Church where believers, the Body of Christ are gathered.

          • pax2u

            you have found some one who agrees with you that those who sin and not saved, and are not Christians

            your idea of salvation is limited to only the “elect”

          • Jesse

            I’m not sure you’re right on the purpose of the Church meetings, because it’s the very best circumstances where the Holy Spirit can do His work on the unsaved heart. The believers won’t convince the unbelievers about Jesus and the purpose of His mission without the Holy Spirit. (it’s something we can’t do)

          • wandakate

            He said “if you seek me with all your heart you will find me”. JESUS also said, ” If two or more gather in my name, I am in the midst of them”. HE will be there even if there are only two in agreement, He will hear them and act according to His will. Keep in mind that His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts. We are to pray for things to be His will, and not our will.

          • Jesse

            OK; Go ahead and try and change God’s will with your prayers if you want to, and I will pray for His will to be done. Regardless, your reply does not respond to my point. (what’s new)

          • wandakate

            That makes sense, but the churches are “full” of imperfect people. Many in the churches who claim to be Christians are just warming the pews and are there to be seen and socialize and hold a position of importance in the church, but they are there for the wrong reasons. On second thought I don’t see any reason why sinners can’t be in the church to learn about GOD, but I also think that the body of CHRIST should be witnessing to them if the opportunity arises. The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.

        • wandakate

          Jesus said, “I have come to seek and to save those who are lost”. No, a real Christian will never accept that lifestyle anymore than if people are openly adulterers, or opening thieves, or opening dishonoring their parents or being mean to them. A sin is a sin regardless. People need to hear the real gospel, and if they persist in the sin after that, then they will be that way and they seal their own sinful fate. They must be “born again” of the spirit and by water.

  • Catherine

    Why don’t these silly-minded preachers study more?
    http://harryhaywords.blogspot.com/

    • Gary

      Mitchell knows what the Bible says about homosexuals. He just does not care.

  • http://www.e5entertainment.com/ DJ DMD

    Another example of pseudo-spiritual, spooky-wooky christianity. Which, btw, will never “save” anyone. Jesus is plain and clear that those that love Him obey HIS Words. Twisting them and outright disobeying Them is in direct violation of John 14:21. The time is arriving for the judgment of God on anyone “playing church.” Keep it real with The Word, ppl. Please. In love. ~ DJ DMD

  • Disqusdmnj

    So now even an actual *pastor* doesn’t understand what he believes are his instructions on how he should treat his parishioners, and is listening to false prophets? You who claim to know His true wish are getting smaller and smaller in number, when you can’t even accept that one of your own has been divinely given a new point of view.

    What if YOU are the ones who are wrong now?

    • Susan Ross

      There is nothing new under the sun. God is the same today as he was when he created this earth. Just because you don’t agree with his words doesn’t change that they are His words.

      • Disqusdmnj

        But he changed from the Old Testament to the New, right? How do you know this isn’t a preamble to a long-needed update?

        • Galaxy Cat

          God Almighty Said, “Be Fruitful and Multiply.” Not waste your seed on burning lusts!

          • Disqusdmnj

            You don’t think we’ve already got enough people on the planet? There’s seven BILLION of us! How about getting some orphans into homes by letting gay couples adopt, and giving them the same state benefits we straight couples have? Isn’t that a more considerate thing to do?

          • Gary

            If we could reduce the population by executing all the homosexuals, that would be helpful.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Ah Gary, your compassion and humanity never ceases to amaze.

            Can’t wait to see how many other so-called compassionate Christians upvote you!

          • Gary

            God said to kill the homosexuals. Leviticus 20:13

          • Disqusdmnj

            So obviously, you don’t…

            Shave (Lev 19:27)
            Have tattoos (Lev 19:28)
            Wear cotton-poly blends (Lev 19:19)
            Eat shrimp or lobster (Lev 11:10)

            But you’d be more than happy, if I gave you a gun (if you don’t have one already), and introduced you to my cousin, or one of my best friends, to murder them, because they are gay?

            That’s your beauty, Gary. Don’t ever lose it.

          • Fundisi

            That is Old Testament!

          • Disqusdmnj

            Tell that to Gary. He seems perfectly happy killing fellow Americans.

          • Gary

            Capital punishment for homosexual behavior was and is God’s command, not mine. If you disagree with God, then you will have to take that up with Him.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Well, then, who’s supposed to administer this capital punishment, if not you?

          • Gary

            The government would do it, if it reverenced God. Since it does not, then the people who run the government will have to answer to God for what they have done, and failed to do.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Seems to me like you’d rather see the capital punishment take place now, maybe even as a spectator. You do seem to relish in that possibility.

            Good thing much, much cooler heads prevail in this world, isn’t it?

          • Gary

            No. It is better to obey God.

          • Disqusdmnj

            So why don’t you, and start shooting some gays? Just doing His work then, right? I’m sure He’d be quite pleased.

          • Gary

            I already told you that administering capital punishment is the government’s job. Try to comprehend what you read.

          • Disqusdmnj

            But they won’t, and He is above government, right? So just let all that pent up frustration out and have at it! Who cares if you get caught, you’re doing what the bible tells you!

          • Gary

            They will be punished for what they have failed to do.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Ah yes, once again, in the time no one can prove actually exists. Sure would be easier if He just did it himself now, like He used to in the good old days. Am I right?

          • Gary

            It is the job of the government, not individuals, to administer capital punishment.

          • Disqusdmnj

            But you don’t do those things just as God commanded in Leviticus, right, my shrimp-eating, shaven friend?

          • Fundisi

            Not in the New Testament!

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            So now are you going to take the opportunity to distance yourself from Gary?

          • Fundisi

            I know that you only want to cause and rejoice at strife and division. I can disagree with Gary as I have on occasion and still see him as my brother in Christ, without demanding we are in 100% agreement on all things.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            So Gary gets a free pass for declaring that homosexuals should be rounded up and killed? Just as easy as that? It would be very interesting to see what the reaction would be if it was a Catholic who suggested such a thing.

          • Fundisi

            I strongly disagree with Gary on that matter, but I will not join you and your friend pax in attacking him, as neither of you are walking with Christ IMO; and I have spoken to him directly about this matter in clear terms, as I am responsible to do, I believe he is too much in the flesh and in most grievous error on this matter, being misled in his unreasoning anger, but as long as his faith is in Salvation by the Grace of God only, in Christ and he is born again, he remains saved; and, yet despite being saved – assuming he is, I believe God as a loving father will bring correction to Him and deal with his anger in His time and in His own perfect way. The best a loving brother can do is try and bring loving rebuke and pray for him until his heart is changed on this matter.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Naturally, once again, it is those who question your assumptions and whom you associate with Catholicism who are “not walking with Christ” and are non-Christians. No amount of syrupy rhetoric can cover up the hypocrisy that you show in your handling of this issue, Neiman.

          • Fundisi

            I answer you honestly and directly, if you do not like it, I could care less. I could also care less about your characterizations of me. You are admittedly outside the Catholic faith while you defend it against all detractors, interesting hypocrisy.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Why is that “hypocrisy?” I can agree with certain aspects of Catholic theology and point out the bigoted and uninformed remarks that fundamentalists make about Catholicism without being a hypocrite.

          • pax2u

            Neiman/Fundisi will defend Gary as long as Gary also hates those who Neiman/Fundisi hates

          • Gary

            Where does the Bible say that God changed His mind about that?

          • Fundisi

            Find anything, I mean anything in the words or actions of Christ which even hints at Christians acting out violently against sinners, rather His words and actions and ours in imitation of Christ, is to reach out to and love all sinners, to truly love even our enemies, to love His enemies, as does He, while clearly opposing their sins, but even that, only in of the love of God to the saving of their souls.

            The killing of certain sinners was part of the Law of Moses, but “4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” Christ fulfilled the Law for us, we are no longer under the Law, but Grace and we are to offer that grace to all men.

          • Gary

            Christ fulfilled the demands of the Law for believers, but not for unbelievers. And even then committing homosexual acts carries a civil penalty of death, which I can’t find has ever been repealed.

          • Guest

            Gary’s a little over the top, wouldn’t you agree?

            I may disagree with you on many things, Fundisi, but I’m glad you’re on the same side here with me!

          • Fundisi

            Some here say that am often over the top, being too direct, too blunt and not giving ground on spiritual issues. Even if true and that is wholly subjective, it is does not disqualify me as a Christian. Gary does sometimes seem to me, to be too angry towards homosexuals and those that support them, but it does not mean he is not a Christian. We are redeemed, saved, yet far from perfect while in this flesh.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Put on those tap dancing shoes.

            Let’s compare logic here: Catholics who accept the sacraments and practice intercessory prayer are rejected as non-Christians, but Gary calls for the systematic slaughter of a group of people and his Christianity is not even questioned in the slightest?

          • Fundisi

            You have a sick obsession with Gary and any bible believing Christian for that matter.

            I do not stand against Catholics for taking the sacraments, even one like the Eucharist which they have perverted, nor do I oppose anyone for intercessory prayer, I believe that is the highest form of prayer. I do have many problems with the myriad of heterodox beliefs as taught by the Roman Catholic Church, but most especially in their doctrine of a works oriented salvation, wherein they deny in insisting on such works – salvation by grace alone, by faith alone and that in the propitiation of Christ alone; as I believe it “another Gospel,” a false Gospel and anyone seeking to earn or maintain their salvation are denying Christ.

            On the other hand, as I do not know him, assuming what he says is in his heart and he came to Christ ” by grace alone, by faith alone and that in the propitiation of Christ alone,” then being thus born again in Christ, he needs loving correction in this matter of killing homosexuals, but just because he is immature in the faith and is being ruled by his false emotions, it does not disqualify him for salvation and thus I choose, until proven wrong, to correct him directly, in love, as a brother in Christ. If I am wrong about Gary, God will make it manifest and in the meantime I will treat Gary as a brother in most grievous error on this point – directly, not in joining you haters in attacking him.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Fundisi: “You have a sick obsession with Gary and any bible believing Christian for that matter.”

            I see you are now taking a tactic out of James Grimes’ playbook. Anyone who dares to question your assumptions or disagree with fundamentalism has a “sick obsession.” Your rhetorical flip-flopping is hilarious.

          • Fundisi

            I am bored with your games already, please feel free to go away and play games elsewhere.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            More smokescreen. Have your beaten your hasty retreat yet?

          • pax2u

            when you can not support your hated of
            Christians, it is always time for you to run away and hide

          • pax2u

            when you can not support your hated of
            Christians, it is always time for you to run away and hide

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Fundisi: “I do not stand against Catholics for taking the sacraments, even one like the Eucharist which they have perverted, nor do I oppose anyone for intercessory prayer, I believe that is the highest form of prayer.”

            So now you are flip-flopping on these issues, too? You have most definitely railed against how Catholics conceive of the sacraments, especially when it comes to connecting them to divine grace in Eucharist and Baptism. Also, you fail to mention what you really think about intercessory prayer as Catholics understand it, which is a disingenuous tactic.

          • Gary

            I’m “over the top” for repeating what God said? Really?

          • Disqusdmnj

            Gary’s a little over the top at times, wouldn’t you say?

          • Fundisi

            See my reply to Guest below.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Not sure which comment you’re referencing, sorry. Can you direct me to it?

          • Fundisi

            Here it is: “Some here say that am often over the top, being too direct, too blunt
            and not giving ground on spiritual issues. Even if true and that is
            wholly subjective, it is does not disqualify me as a Christian. Gary
            does sometimes seem to me, to be too angry towards homosexuals and those
            that support them, but it does not mean he is not a Christian. We are
            redeemed, saved, yet far from perfect while in this flesh.”

          • Disqusdmnj

            But wouldn’t you rather seem to others to be compassionate and understanding? Isn’t that a more just way to live?

            Gary, on the other hand, seems to relish in the belief that *because* he’s a Christian, that all of his ignorance and opinions are justified.

            Seriously, who honestly believes a person should be executed because they’re gay? That’s why views like that make people put fundamentalists like Gary on par with ISIS. Not exactly the peer group I’d want to be compared to.

          • Gary

            Since you are not a Christian, it is not surprising that you don’t believe the Bible.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Given your opinions, it’s obviously apparent you believe a bit too much in it. Enjoy your lobster and shaving!

          • Gary

            God won’t let you get away with what you are doing.

          • pax2u

            Gary are you going to start executing Gays?

          • Disqusdmnj

            He has so far! ; )

          • pax2u

            Gary is a very violent person, who supports armed revolution and now wants to act for God, and supports the execution of gays, he is frightening

          • pax2u

            so Gary are you Once Saved Always Saved? can you execute gays for God and still have salvation, you sound like an Islamic suicide bomber who can kill and receive his 72 virgins in paradise

          • Fundisi

            I do not agree that it is a proper Christian attitude to want to see anyone dead, especially sinners, as their everlasting, conscious future is just to ghastly to contemplate, I want the saved and healed. It is not for Christians to act out violently, unless in defense of life. So, in this matter, Gary and I are not in agreement.

            Compassion and understanding, like love, are subjective. We Christians believe it is the ultimate act of love to oppose sin that some might repent and be saved. Others see that as hate. So, it is how you define these things and that depends on whether God’s Word is your standard or the caprice of frail, finite men.

          • Disqusdmnj

            But why is the “sin” of homosexuality so repulsive, but the “sin” of eating shrimp and wearing a nice cotton/poly blend not? All are in Leviticus… all are no-no’s. Yet Gary’s not ready to put people in a firing squad because they had lobster for dinner. Why did homosexuality carry forward as a “sin”, but not shaving?

            Imagine how much easier your life would be, how much more compassionate you could feel, if you didn’t have to believe that a gay person was somehow intrinsically sinful, simply because they love someone – just as you and I straight guys do – who just happens to have the same parts?

            Why not just include being gay with the shellfish and the shaving and the blended fabric, as things no one cares about being sinful anymore?

          • Fundisi

            ” Leviticus chapter 11 lists the dietary restrictions God gave to the nation of Israel. The dietary laws included prohibitions against eating pork, shrimp, shellfish and many types of seafood, most insects, scavenger birds, and various other animals. The dietary rules were never intended to apply to anyone other than the Israelites. The purpose of the food laws was to make the Israelites distinct from all other nations. After this purpose had ended, Jesus declared all foods clean (Mark 7:19)”

            As to sins of the flesh of man, they all remain sins, while some punishments remain as applicable because they make for a civilized society, like punishing thieves or murderers.. Others, like killing homosexuals was part of the Old Testament to avoid these vile, immoral things spiritually corrupting the Jews, as it was and is the ultimate idolatry, the worship of self, of the same gender.

            Homosexuals are not considered sinful for loving anyone, but for sexual conduct that is perverse and destructive of society and corrupting, as we see above, even of godly people.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Let me ask another way – what if a gay couple never engaged in physical intimacy. They remained celibate, but we’re married (by the state) and raising children. Would that be a sin then?

          • Fundisi

            Yes it would still be sin. God never designed marriage between same gender people and being unrepentant of their homosexuality, they remain in their sins.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Well, that’s your belief and you’re certainly entitled to it. But I assume you’re OK with people who *don’t* believe that going about their daily lives, trying to create a life for themselves, be able to marry who they want, etc, since it has absolutely no affect on *your* life. You don’t specifically vote for people who are against SSM, to prevent other Americans from enjoying the same rights that we do, right? I mean, if you think God designed marriage, fine. But marriage on Earth is a state function, with the benefits it accords. Personally, I think it’s great the pastor in question has heard from his Creator and is fulfilling His wishes that SSM’s be offered in his church, but I’m personally also fine with other churches not performing SSM’s if they so wish. We can’t force them to, that’s the beauty of the Establishment Clause and church/state separation. So you should also be OK with the State allowing SSM’s (36 and counting!), as long as it doesn’t interfere with what churches deem (in)appropriate, keeping church and state separate as well?

            Just curious here… you’re clearly far more religious than other people I’d usually care to dialogue with, but I appreciate the conversation!

          • Fundisi

            I take exception, I am not religious at all, Christian living is about having an intimate communion with God through Christ and not religion in the sense of a rigid, “an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god.” It is about liberty, letting go of these things designed by men that we normally associate with religion and simply surrendering each day to allow Him to live His life in and through us,by His power.

            I believe SSM is an offense against God and a perversion of His design wherein His children are to be bound together by the Holy Spirit and become as one-flesh before Him. If the world chooses to advance the idea that two people of the same gender can be bound together legally and enjoy similar legal/financial benefits as married people, the world is free under free will to do so, but to call it marriage, to make it thereby equal to those married under God, is to make a mockery of true marriage and pervert it into something evil. They can call it whatever they will, even marriage, but it will never be true marriage, it will always be something else, something less and that is rebellion against God. I am against gay marriage. I disagree that it does not impact my life, by making gay unions into marriage, it demeans the true state of marriage and harms the children and society.

          • Disqusdmnj

            The way I see it, if you believe He designed humans, then all of our faults and foibles and illnesses are his as well, and that includes the physiological fact of homosexuality. He may as well own up to that.

            As far as SSM goes (I love how you can’t even use the actual words on this site!), you may not like it, but it doesn’t really impact you directly. You may not want an SS union to be called a marriage, in the same way I appreciated that my college would not give out honorary “degrees” to people who simply gave a speech at commencement, standing in front of 3,000 people who just worked their bottoms off for 4 years to get one… so I get that. But, it does not harm children or society – that’s already been proven over and over again. *Denying* people’s rights is harmful, not expanding them. Sure, society may not make it easy for those kids, just as they still don’t for those from interracial marriages – but that’s an effect of bigotry, plain and simple. But overall, SSM
            doesn’t impact society in the least. In many places, it has actually promoted more family values, or companies who have to offer spousal benefits just to keep up with their competition for candidates, which is also good for a community, and opens up adoptions (which I know Gary would find equivalent to murder), etc.

            And let’s face it, if He really didn’t like it, He’s supposed to be powerful enough to stop it, right? Or, you know, he could just drown us all… again, apparently. ; )

            Anyway, gotta take the kid to basketball practice. Have a good Super Bowl Sunday!

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            That was a masterful rhetorical dance there. In the end, Gary gets out with a slap on the wrist because of the “enemy of my enemies is my friend” game.

          • Fundisi

            I am responsible for dealing with Gary directly as a brother in Christ, not join you in savaging him for your own amusement. How you choose to characterize my response is your responsibility and I have none to defend myself to you.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Savaging him? I have used none of the kind of language that you have in denigrating me. I simply asked you a question about the logic that you employ here and the apparent hypocrisy to which it leads. Once again, it is you who cannot have rational discussions with those who directly question your assumptions or whose church you hate.

          • Fundisi

            I have said what I have said, if you do not like it that is your problem not mine. Your characterizations of me do not interest or impact my life at all.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            No, you have no ability to deal with real criticisms that are made of your assumptions or beliefs. So you have to throw up a smokescreen of rhetoric and denial in order to try to get out of it with a shred of dignity still in tact.

          • pax2u

            so Gary wants to execute homosexuals, and he is your “brother”

          • pax2u

            Gary is angry towards homosexuals? what ? Gary wants to execute them, that is just a little more than angry

            bless you for your tolerance with someone like Nieman/Fundisi and Gary

          • Disqusdmnj

            Gary’s just another run-of-the-mill bigot, cloaked in the perceived permission of ancient biblical thinking.

            But I like Fundisi. Seems to be a good person with different viewpoints… even if they’re wrong. ; )

          • pax2u

            Neiman/Fundisi will support Gary as long as Gary also hates Catholics

            now Gary wants to execute Gays,

          • pax2u

            oh, no, does your friend what to kill homosexuals, I am sure that your must agree with him, since he also hates Catholics

          • Spoob

            I know how much you’d love to kill them, Gary.

          • truthinaction

            We are suppose to kill those who “spill seed” (masturbate) also. Oh! the world is doomed!

          • pax2u

            do you think that you are free to kill another? you are frightening

          • Fundisi

            Send them into homes of people we know are in rebellion to God and wherein they will lead these children into Perdition by their rejection of Christ? Into homes where such children by large margins experiment sexually and a higher percentage than the rest of the popularization choose the gay lifestyle? Doesn’t seem like a very good plan to me and certainly not one expressing love for these children.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Multiple studies have shown that children in same-sex homes do perfectly fine. You’re confusing your fairy tales with actual facts, which I guess you have to do, don’t you?

            Also, it isn’t rebellion; it’s biology. Even the pastor in questions knows that. Shame you don’t.

          • Fundisi

            It is not biology, the sexual conduct is rebellion against God and I will stand with God, while you stand with this apostate, atheist minister.

          • Disqusdmnj

            At least he’s real! ; )

          • Fundisi

            Ah, another atheist trolling Christians sites.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Yeah, I apologize. I know the minister is real. On the other one, I can’t say for sure… haven’t seen any evidence, so my best guess is no. But I should try not to be so presumptuous and arrogant. Sorry about that, really.

          • Fundisi

            As I used to teach my autistic students, “Apology accepted, thank you!”

            To me and many Christians, God is much more real than this minister. I have no objective, tangible proof the minister exists, I cannot touch, feel. hear or smell him, so all my senses say no he does not exit. Some might say, the story is evidence of his existence. I would say, you cannot touch, feel. hear or smell God and you might say then, all my senses tell you He does not exist, I point you to the stories in the Bible and other historical documents, as evidence of His existence.

            I know He exists within me and in my life, so I can touch, feel and hear Him. So, there you are!

          • Disqusdmnj

            That’s a bit of a false equivalency, wouldn’t you say? You *can* both see and hear he exists. You can go to his church and meet him in person. Otherwise, we’re certainly spending a lot of time talking about a(nother?) non-existent being.

            Whether or not a or any god exists, the point is that this pastor is moving past centuries and centuries of outdated, ancient thinking. Even the Pope has as well. (You may say the Pope is a nobody because he’s not “Christian”, but that’s just another No True Scotsman fallacy, which many people here LOVE to engage in.)

            So the idea that a person wants to do no more than live their life – as they were actually born – as a gay or lesbian, raise a family, pay taxes, have kids, and marry their loved one… that this idea is so reprehensible and abhorrent to people on a board like this, is beyond me.

            And even if I *did* believe a god exists, I’d rather go to the hot place than follow His rules that tell me – rather explicitly, according to Gary and the Book – to execute another human being. Gary may hide behind the whole “His rules, not mine” load, but it certainly sounds like a commandment to me, if He himself isn’t going to carry it out.

            BTW, Gary never answered about eating shrimp, did he? ; )

          • Fundisi

            It is late and I don’t have the time an energy for much of this nonsense.

            1. Let us say my beliefs are correct, then rather than humble yourself before God and obey Him, you would really prefer everlasting conscious existence all alone, in utter darkness and tormented mentally for not just your sins, but because you saw God and heaven and know you can never go there, there is no reprieve? That is insanity!

            2. It is not what we feel, it is God’s Word and we know that He is both a God of Love and Justice. We love these poor souls and want to see as many rescued from the hell you prefer, to get them to Jesus, His Salvation and healing from their homosexuality. That is abhorrent to you?

            3. The Scotsman Fallacy is nonsense. If a person says they are this thing or that thing and yet by word and deed act wholly contrary to that thing, then it is not a fallacy to suggest they are not what they claim to be.

          • Disqusdmnj

            1. Pascal’s Wager. You don’t worry about vampires or werewolves, I don’t worry about deities no evidence for either.

            2. They don’t live by your beliefs, they live by their own – but still in a society of self-defined rules and laws. Fine if you leave them be, but you don’t. You (royally, at least) use your beliefs to deny gays the right to marry. Years ago, it was to deny interracial couples of the same. So it’s not love, it’s intrusion.

            3. The Scotsman is appropriate the way commenters discuss the pastor in the article. The way you described Gary’s repulsive ideology was appropriate, though.

            Have a good weekend!

          • Gary

            Homosexuals have the same right to marry as do non-perverts.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Awww, Gary… your tolerance is so inspiring! You must be a blast at holiday gatherings.

          • Kathleen Jones

            They already do that in UK

          • Disqusdmnj

            I know… awesome, isn’t it? : )

          • Paula Davis

            Considerate Christians? The bible says nothing of being considerate.

        • Kathleen Jones

          Because Jesus himself said “It is finished”. And at the end of Revelation 22. it clearly says 14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 18. and I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them,God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.”

  • Theresa Easley

    All he will be left with is homosexuals. Serves him right.

  • Susan Ross

    He missed their donations…. nothing more.

  • Mr. Avatar

    Obviously this preacher was never baptized with the holy spirit, as the spirit would have convicted him of his ways. It you attend that church, wipe the dust off your shoes and find a new church, sending a message to that preacher as he should be shunned.

  • Barabbas

    Woe to those who lead the innocent astray. Scripture actually discourages individuals from being teachers in the Church. This is because of the enormous influence teachers/pastors/spiritual leaders have on the minds and souls of so many. If you are unwilling or incapable of teaching only what is true, if you do not have the integrity and courage to draw clear lines and to openly affirm the truth concerning all things that impact Christianity, then you should remove yourself from Christian ministry. How can ministers have so little fear of Almighty God? Do they believe His power and eternal judgments are not real? If you do not have the strength of character to proclaim truth and lead according to that truth, it’s understandable since we all have our weaknesses. But what CAN’T be condoned is choosing to remain in a position of church leadership when you are unwilling to teach, organize and lead truthfully and faithfully. The Apostle Paul taught that those who live in open, willful sin (which would include teaching/authorizing people to do the same) must be removed from fellowship until they repent from their sin. The Church grows weaker and becomes more worldly by the day. It all begins with leadership. This man and impostors like him are destroying God’s people from within.

  • raytheist

    Good for the pastor for following his heart and conscience, and not continuing to lead others down the road of politics-infused “spirituality”.

    • truthinaction

      And praise Hitler for following his heart and conscience.

      • raytheist

        nonsequitor.

        • truthinaction

          Expendable you are.

    • Recondaddy

      I would prefer that he follow the Word of God. After all, Jeremiah 17:9…

      • raytheist

        #1. If he’s not your pastor, your preference matters not.

        #2. I’m pretty sure he IS following what HE reads in the Bible. Not everyone reads it the same way. http://notalllikethat.org/taking-god-at-his-word-the-bible-and-homosexuality/

        • Recondaddy

          Wait….is he your pastor? Because, if he’s not, you certainly didn’t feel any compunction about stating YOUR preference for his actions.

          As for point #2, scripture is abundantly clear on this issue. It requires SERIOUS hermeneutical gymnastics in order to interpret the issue any other way.

          Are you a believer, raytheist? If not, then there’s not point in continuing this discussion, since we have no common ground.

          • raytheist

            It’s never out of place to congratulate someone for a job well done, but incredibly tacky to spew negativity on someone else’s work if it doesn’t concern you.

            And, seriously, you are quite mistaken if you think the Bible is clear on the topic. You have a moral obligation to follow every available avenue of research and weigh it out, rather than pretend you already know all there is to know on the topic. And if you aren’t gay, you probably aren’t even close to knowing all there is to know; all that you think you know is merely academic, but those whose lives are actually impacted have a vested interest to actually research that matter.

          • Recondaddy

            Are you a believer, raytheist? If not, have a nice life.

          • raytheist

            If you only dialogue with people who already share your views, you will likely live a very shallow life and not learn much about the rest of the people who share the planet with. Every single person has a story worth hearing and a life worth living on their own terms.

          • Recondaddy

            It has nothing to do with that. I don’t discuss Christian doctrine with people who are not Christians. It would be like me discussing the Constitution with someone from Iran. We have no common ground upon which to debate.

            Non-believers, in my many years of discussing the Bible with them, I have discovered have only a Sunday-school knowledge of scripture, at best. Most of their knowledge of scripture doesn’t come from their own study of it but from what they’ve heard from other non-believers.

            I don’t have that kind of time to waste. As such, I leave you with the only thing I share with non-believers:

            You are separated from a holy God by your sin. There is no amount of good that you can do to atone for your rebellion against God. If you repent of your sin, accept the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made to reconcile you back to God, and commit your life to Him, your sins will be forgiven, and you will be able to enter into eternal communion with Him.

            If you would rather choose your sin and rebellion over God and reject this gift that He has given, then He will give you exactly what you want, and you will be separated from Him for eternity.

            It’s your call. Have a nice life.

          • raytheist

            You just proved my point. Pretending others have no “common” ground, you just separate yourself from a whole lot of education.

            I’m no more separated from god than you are.

            I would remind you that you initiated this exchange by commenting on my post. Since you already have your mind made up and refuse further education, why “waste” your time at all?

          • Recondaddy

            Do you accept the authority of scripture with regard to human conduct?

            If not, then there’s no “pretending,” no matter what you think. If I say that homosexuality is a sin according to the word of God, but you don’t see the Bible as authoritative, where do we go from there? No where. You’re not going to convince me that homosexual behavior is perfectly fine, and I’m not going to be able to use the Bible to convince you that it’s not.

            No common ground, dude. It’s not that hard to understand.

            As for “educating” me — I’ve been arguing with atheists and agnostics for 15 years — you’ve got nothing to teach me that I haven’t already heard, and I can promise you that I know more about my own faith than you do.

          • raytheist

            And you continue to prove my point: choosing to remain willfully ignorant and pretend you know more than others about their own lives, rather than actually have a dialogue. It doesn’t much matter who is “right”, what matters is how humane and compassionate you are for others. There is no intrinsic sin in being gay or lesbian, so you’re starting from a faulty foundation.

          • Recondaddy

            “There is no intrinsic sin in being gay or lesbian, so you’re starting from a faulty foundation.”

            Speaking of proving a point…

          • Recondaddy

            You know what? I’m not gonna leave you that way. You want to have a dialogue? Let’s have a dialogue.

            “It doesn’t much matter who is “right”, what matters is how humane and compassionate you are for others.”

            Upon what are you basing this morality? Is this just your opinion?

          • Recondaddy

            Besides — this story is about church government — where could you possibly think that a Christian and a non-Christian have ANY common ground, whatsoever?

    • Guest

      Besides — this story is about church government — where could you possibly think that a Christian and a non-Christian have ANY common ground?

  • tpeek

    1 Corinthians 5:7-13 come to mind. It needs no interpretation.

  • TheBBP

    Anybody who claims to talk to God or hear something from God that is different from the Word is a false teacher. Thank the Lord that his numbers have crashed on him. I hope that it continues to happen.

    • Carol Cantell Moorby

      If any man adds to or takes away from the word he is CURSED!!!! Romans 1:18-32 clarifies the truth and he has added to the word. ” If anyone should appear to you and teach a lesson other then what is already taught he is also CURSED.

  • TheBBP

    By this he is essentially claiming that God is not omnipotent and omniscient. His claims would infer that God has made a mistake in His Bible and that the Word of God is indeed wrong and is not to be trusted. He is basically now running a cult only he continues to call it a Church of God.

  • Blueray Andrews

    …every persons goal in this journey of life should be eternal membership with JESUS, GOD, the HOLYSPIRIT…inclusion into the family of GOD is exclusively through His only begotten son, JESUS…the gospel, the truth, GODs word is that guideline to everlasting life in heaven, and I’d very clear and explicit about this subject, homosexuality… Yes, we want them to come hear ALL GODs truths, with love, but must understand that putting a stamp of approval on something that the moment they leave this world, they WILL open their eyes in hell, forever…if we truly love them, we’ll be bold, with true love, and warn them…then they choose…no sin can be condoned…as far as the wind he feels was from GOD, GOD doesn’t create currents of doubt, nor does He float along and contradict His own word, He’s the same yesterday, today, and forever…Satan is the great deceiver, he wants you to “conform” to this world…I pray for you…that off the blinders…Shalom…….

  • bowie1

    Some people claim that anything done in His name, has his stamp of approval. I once heard a preacher tell a story of a stripper who “did it for the Lord” but of course it was sexual immorality made to look right in this woman’s own eyes he said.

  • James Grimes

    Apostasy is an ugly thing. Satan is gaining strength in that church.

  • Nancy Sternberg

    I do not know what presence he claims but it is not God. Shame on him.

  • Carol Cantell Moorby

    Apparenrly he can NOT read or does not know the bible?Read Romans 1:18-32. God hates the homosexual life style but loves the homosexuals.” Love the sinner but not the sin and Be ye angry but sin not..He needs to be fired on the spot He is a false prophet. Does he do done sun because he’s a homosexual? Love is TRUTH and TRUTH is love. He is sending people to hell with this evil doctrine and their blood will be on his hands. He is NOT called or ordained of God as he condones sin.,Heaven help those poor people who are following man instead of God and Gods word.

    • Spoob

      This is a hateful and very un-Christian thing to say. Shame on you.

      • Fundisi

        Not hateful at all – it is the truth and Carol is right, the Truth is love and to hate the truth is to reject love.

        • Spoob

          Talk to a homosexual sometime. It is hate.

          • Fundisi

            Is it hate to stand against a thief, a child molester, a rapist or others like them? No, it is to hate what they do, because it will lead them and those whose lives they impact away from God. It is to love the homosexual enough to oppose his sins, for the sake of his everlasting soul.

          • Spoob

            It is hate to even dare to COMPARE homosexuals to child molesters, thieves, rapists or anyone else who abuses someone.

          • Fundisi

            Who says, you? Who died and made you God?

            How about we turn to the real God? “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor
            effeminate (malakos), nor abusers of themselves with mankind (arsenokoites/homosexuals), 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Cor. 6:9-10).
            (1 Cor. 6:9-10).”

            God calls homosexuals abusers of themselves with mankind, the man kind. So, is God guilty of hate then?

          • Jan

            Preach. you are telling the truth!

          • Spoob

            It may come as a total and complete surprise to you, but maybe you are mistaken about the passages you are clinging so strongly to. And even if you’re not, what about judge not? What about let he who is without sin cast the first stone? Has it not struck you that things like this are the reason so many people hate fundamentalist Christians? That’s NOT a good thing, by the way.

          • Fundisi

            1. It is a matter of complete indifference to me that people hate me, they hated and still do hate my Lord and He said that if you people of this world hated Him, we should expect to be hated too. He also said narrow was the way unto salvation and very few would find their way therein.

            2. If it were a passage or two, you might have a point; but, first of all, neither you nor your fellow travelers can produce a single passage in Scripture wherein God even hints in the most remote way that He approves of homosexuality or gay marriage. Then, it would be to accuse God of indifference that His chosen people the Jews and His Church have always held to the idea that God condemns homosexuality and He never corrected that error. Then, to think of God being perfect and declaring His creation perfect, that He would have created the human anatomy and biological make-up of His human creation imperfectly, having more than one divine intention.

            3. You and most people take that Judge not passage out of all context, as He also calls us to make righteous judgments between good and evil and even commands us to come out and be separate from evil men.

            So in every possible way you are wrong.

          • Spoob

            In no possible way are you a Christian. The amount of hate and bile that dribbles from your mouth makes that quite impossible.

            Leave gay people alone. They have no effect on your life whatsoever.

          • Fundisi

            As you have long ago proved you are an enemy of Christ, I suggest you look in the mirror to see the non-Christian looking back at you.

            Should I leave a dying man alone? Should I stay silent when I see a man rushing off a cliff? Unlike you, I want to see as many gays saved and healed as possible and it must begin with helping them to see the everlasting consequences of their deviant sexual lifestyle choice.

          • Carla Wiedower Morse

            My daughter is in a relationship with a girl. Breaks my heart. But I have to say this. She is a good girl. Has good morals. Works hard. Goes to church with me and tithes faithfully. No I do not approve of this relationship at all. But i am her mom and I am here for her and I am praying that she will come back and get closer to God. She tells me she knows she is going to Heaven. hmmm…..i am heartbroken but my point here is yes I am a Child of God and He can help her to see her sinful ways. She doesnt drink or smoke. Has a nice home with a dog in the backyard. We as Christians have to shine our light on everyone..And quit being so judgemental. I love my daughter and I will continue to shine Gods love on her the best I can.

          • Gary

            I am sorry about your daughter, but she is not a “good girl”. She is a pervert. Her going to church and tithing will not help her with God.

          • Fundisi

            What does a Christian do when their child says they are Gay? Well, what do you do when you find out they are a thief or a liar or an adulterer or any host sins? You love them unconditionally, while you never compromise your faith when it comes to the sin involved, they must know it is sin, for the sake of their everlasting souls that they might be awakened by the Spirit, repent and find Christ.

            In your daughter’s case, not knowing her, first just love her, pray for her without ceasing for you cannot ever change her – give up trying to change her or convince her to change, only the Love of Christ in and through you and your prayers of intercession to the Father will ever produce a change. I am not suggesting you would, but there is no use constantly beating her with the Bible or arguing against her sin, but when it comes up, never back down. When she says mother I will go to heaven, tell her that is your hope as well, but that if she refuses to repent of her sins, turning away from them and to Christ, you fear for her everlasting soul and leave it there, let God, His Word never coming back to Him void, do its work.

            Just love her Carla, set the right example of Christ in your own life, never compromise God’s Word, pray night and day with all your heart, keep knocking, keep seeking and trust the Spirit to take your prayers to heaven in groanings that no man may utter and no matter how impossible it may look, remember what is impossible with man is possible with God.

          • Gary

            You hate God and the Bible, and that is why you hate Christians.

          • Spoob

            I am a Christian. You are not. You are a bigot and a hater.

          • Gary

            You are a Christian in the same way that I am a Hindu. But I am not a Hindu.

          • Spoob

            You are a hateful, bigoted pig.

          • The Last Trump

            How can you be so sure? Have you seen him at your church?

          • Spoob

            No. It says so in the Bible. Right next to where it says Obama is a Muslim.

          • Jeff Varney

            Takes one to know one…let us all not be one.

          • chamuiel

            again, you are nothing but an infantile name caller. you have nothing else.

          • Spoob

            Why are you standing up for bigots and homophobes?

          • The Last Trump

            Hmm. Dictating who IS and IS NOT a Christian, eh?…..seems to me somebody around here has been accusing others of just the same crime…interesting. Hypocritical. But interesting.

          • Spoob

            Careful Trumpy, you are defending a man who called God a bigot a few days ago without a hint of irony. Of course, you probably feel the same way…don’t you? At least Gary could admit it.

          • pax2u

            I see that Gary now wants to execute gays, His fellow haters will support Gary as long as he hates Catholics

          • Gary

            Since it was God who said to execute people who engage in homosexuality, would you say that God is a “hater”?

          • pax2u

            so are you going to execute gays?

          • Gary

            Is God a “hater”, or not?

          • pax2u

            are you going to execute gays for God?

          • Gary

            I won’t answer until you answer my question.

          • pax2u

            Jesus Christ speaks of Love, so no God does not hate his children, God Loves his children,

            God hates sin

            now your turn Gary are you going to act for God and execute gays? or would that be disobeying your version of God?

          • Gary

            If God is not a hater for ordering the execution of homosexuals, then why am I a hater for pointing out what God said?
            Executing people is the responsibility of the government.

          • pax2u

            Gary I am a follower of the Jesus Christ, of the new Testament of the New Covenant, did Jesus Christ say to kill homosexuals? no

            Gary I am a Christian, I am sorry that you are not

          • Gary

            You are as much a Christian as spoob is. You don’t believe the Bible and you don’t live by it.

          • pax2u

            If you want the government to execute homosexuals, then you are more of a Muslim

          • pax2u

            so Gary would you support the Government executing homosexuals, you are like the Muslims

          • Gary

            Well then God must be like the muslims since he commanded that homosexuals be executed.

          • pax2u

            so you worship the Muslim god Gary, now it is clear that you do not worship the Christian God Jesus Christ

          • Gary

            You are incredibly stupid. But you would have to be in order to be a catholic.

          • pax2u

            Gary you are incredibly hateful and violent, you want the government to execute homosexuals, are you going to behead them in the public square like the Muslims,

            you support the hate of the Westboro Baptist Church and anti Semite fascists,

          • Spoob

            What kind of maniacal God are they all following?

          • pax2u

            Gary would be head those who disagree with him in the public square, very frightening

          • pax2u

            Gary’s hatred and anger if very scary, his wish that the government should execute homosexuals is much like the Nazis of 1930s Germany, but he does support anti Semitic Fascists so it should be no surprise

          • Gary

            The God of the Bible. THe one you don’t believe in.

          • pax2u

            do you believe that the God of the Bible wants to execute homosexuals?

          • Gary

            According to Leviticus 20:13 God does.

          • pax2u

            so you and the Muslims want to execute homosexuals, very telling

          • Gary

            Is it that you don’t believe God was speaking in Lev. 20:13, or do you believe God rescinded his order later? If it is the latter, where does the Bible say God rescinded it??

          • pax2u

            I am a Christian, of the New Testament of the New Covenant,

          • Spoob

            I know what I believe Gary. You don’t. You don’t know me. You don’t know God either. And you aren’t God.

          • pax2u

            but Gary thinks he speaks for a god, but not the Christian God,

            poor Gary has voices in his head that justify his hatred of all of the “others”

          • Spoob

            He’s not even the worst one here, just the craziest.

          • Jesse

            Does your post mean that Catholics are homosexuals?

          • pax2u

            no it means Catholics are against hatred and bigotry

            I hope that your weather is better in southern Illinois, will get 8 to 12 inches of snow tomorrow here; take care my friend

          • Jesse

            Matt; Snow wasn’t near as bad as they predicted, was it… (only rained here)

          • pax2u

            we got about 18 in of snow, and will be 8 below tomorrow, so not so bad all in all

          • Jesse

            I sort of hate that cold…since my buildings are not insulated for heating purposes, I can only warm up a spot… warming up soon though…

          • jason bourne

            Haha. Embracing gays makes one Christian….what political correctness church have you been attending to?

          • Spoob

            What would Jesus do, shoot them?

          • Gary

            Jesus (God) said to execute them.

          • Spoob

            Do you also pluck your eye out when it causes you to sin? Or cut your hand off? You better be consistent about following the Bible Gary.

          • chamuiel

            you are an infantile name caller. i bet you are popular with the other bullies on the playground.

          • Spoob

            I am a bully? Who are the ones bullying homosexuals here? Get with the program.

          • Gary

            I don’t think you are a bully. You are too much of a sissy to be that.

          • Spoob

            Not wanting to kill homosexuals like you makes me a sissy? Go polish your shotgun, hillbilly boy.

          • Jesse

            You claim to be a Christian, yet you are supporting the guy in the article and queers in general and ‘name calling’ those that are willing to speak the truth.

          • Spoob

            Queers, eh? Nice language for a Christian. Are you a member of the KKK?

          • Jesse

            Queers is the accurate descriptive name for them and any other perverted freaks.

          • Spoob

            Whatever you say, hillbilly KKK boy. YEEEEEE HAWWWW! String ’em all up, eh?

          • jason bourne

            R u delusional or a troll?

          • Spoob

            Got a problem typing in complete words?

          • jason bourne

            You need some serious reality check. There are already lesbians coming out admitting of being in incestuous relationships and ask to be accepted.
            Fornication> homosexuality> incest> pedophilia> zoofilia etc
            All the sick people in the world will be sooner or later with acceptant people like yourself.

          • Spoob

            Nonsense.

          • wandakate

            The bible tells us that friends are like gold, rare and precious like gemstones. The best friend you will ever have in life is the one that will tell you the “TRUTH”. It’s that truth that will set you free from all the lies that are out there. The thief, the child molester, the rapist and all the rest are all sinners, and yes we hate what they do and so does GOD. If the homosexual knows the truth, maybe he will make better decisions and not be excluded from GOD’s kingdom.

          • Gary

            It does not matter what homosexuals think. And it does not matter what homosexual supporters think.

          • Spoob

            Gary, why don’t you go jump into a pit of molten lava?

          • Gary

            Because it would hurt.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Gary, just when the action turns intense, you crack me up, Sir! Well-played, again!

          • Spoob

            Let’s hope so.

          • The Last Trump

            Ahhhhh yes! Feel the love wash over us. 🙂

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Indeed. Was he not very recently telling us that we were the haters?!? 🙂

          • Spoob

            And indeed you are.

          • The Last Trump

            Pretty much hourly, I think. Must be one of those things where they think if they say it enough times it has to be true. Poor misguided souls. 🙂

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            A-theism really is a cult, isn’t it? Hard for me to admit that the Good Lord rescued me out of that brainwashing after disobeying Him for so many decades: I sure did NOT deserve it, but praise Him for His infinite Grace and Mercy! Keep up the good works, Trump!

          • The Last Trump

            You too, brother!
            Yes these atheists are something else! Imagine coming to a Christian website “religiously” just to argue with a bunch of Christians about a God who isn’t there! What a bunch of morons! Talk about a waste of time.

            Ahhhh, sadly, I too used to be an unbeliever. Until I finally checked it out. What these clowns will never understand is that the evidence FOR God is simply overwhelming and undeniable. And a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, indescribable! But you can’t discover this by only talking to other atheists now can you? And most of them are just too darn lazy to ever actually seek the truth.

            Ah well, if they want to keep trolling this site, we’ve just got to keep posting scripture for them. One way or another they’re going to read the Bible whether they like it or not! 🙂

            God bless!

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            More brilliant points you make, Trump! When I was an anti-Christian (let’s face it – no one is REALLY an a-theist), the last thing I was doing was to try to convert people to my worldview. I knew that I had 80 years or so at most, and I was living it up – stretching the limits of all things moral and legal (since those matter not under naturalistic a-theism).

            In fact, I think that is a good apologetic for us to use: why would an a-theist, whose time of existence is severely limited (under his worldview) waste any of it trying to de-convert us? To keep us from building and supporting with our time, treasure, and talents more homeless shelters, orphanages, hospitals, etc?!? To stop us from building water wells and homes and churches in 3rd world countries?!? I think we have to consider the possibility that trolls may be seekers, deep down, just by spending time on these sites, since it is illogical (under their view) to do so. For that reason, I am trying to show more grace with them, albeit not doing a great job. 🙁

            God bless you too, Trump – thanks for your thought-provoking points!

          • Jeff Varney

            Spoob’s the hater and other trolls like him…he just won’t admit it. The best and only thing we can hate is sin.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Amen, Jeff!

          • Spoob

            Just talking in language you can understand, Rumpy.

          • The Last Trump

            And how comfortably you speak it! So experienced you are! 😉

          • Spoob

            It was merely a helpful suggestion to Gary, it would solve many of his problems. Yours too, you’re free to take the same advice.

          • The Last Trump

            Your “god” must be so proud. Shameful.
            Told you, Spoobles. We just gotta let you speak. There isn’t a person here that can do more damage to your cause than your own mouth. Fools are funny that way.
            Here you go, little buddy. Here’s a little more rope. Go ahead and speak. 🙂

          • Spoob

            Playing to the KKKrowd again, Trumpy? That’s all right with me. If you want to be the hero to a pile of hateful bigoted pigs you are in the right place. I’m quite content to sit back and ridicule you. There being so much of you worth ridiculing, not least of which is the high regard you place on your fellow homosexuals.

          • The Last Trump

            Yep. Right on cue!
            You just can’t seem to help yourself, eh, you poor and unfortunate creature! I should be ashamed. Too easy… 🙂

          • Spoob

            Yes, just keep telling yourself that, Trumpy. Coo coo!

          • jason bourne

            Hey bully. Get lost. Your love for gays seems to be propaganda only. And as far as im concerned you are Christian as Jesus was a budist.

          • Spoob

            Why don’t you get lost? Take the rest of the KKK with you. Christianity is not about hate.

          • pax2u

            I see that your friend Gary wants to execute gays, is that your idea of feeling the love wash over us?

          • Gary

            Why don’t you want what God wants?

          • pax2u

            are you going to act for God? would you be justified?

          • Gary

            First, answer my question.

          • pax2u

            Gary Disqusdmnj 12 hours ago

            Capital punishment for homosexual behavior was and is God’s command, not mine. If you disagree with God, then you will have to take that up with Him.

          • Spoob

            Gary should be living in the Bronze Age. Not this one.

          • pax2u

            he is a mouth breathing knuckle dragger

          • Gary

            Like Abraham, Moses, and David?

          • pax2u

            do you want the government to execute homosexuals?

          • Gary

            Yes, because that is what God said to do.

          • pax2u

            would you do the deed?

          • Gary

            If I worked for the government as an executioner.

          • pax2u

            so you would be willing to execute homosexuals?

          • Gary

            Yes.

          • pax2u

            that tells us all

          • pax2u

            thank you for being the honest hateful bigot,

          • pax2u

            would you behead homosexuals as the Muslims do?

          • pax2u

            from Gary who thinks he is the “true” Christian

            pax2u Gary • an hour ago

            so you would be willing to execute homosexuals?

            Gary pax2u • an hour ago

            Yes.

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Thank you for your firm stand, and God bless you, Carol!

    • wandakate

      We cannot follow GOD and follow man at the same time. Their ways are just the opposite. GOD hates our thoughts and our way if they are contrary to His own. We can not add to or take away from the word of GOD. In today’s churches, the gospel has been watered down so much it’s useless almost. We have replaced the gospel with all of the new activities of the church and meetings and bookstore in the foyers and loud music that makes you feel like you’re at a rock concert. If you don’t have a headache when you go in, you will have a big one when you leave if you are even over 40 years old. The preachers tell you what you want to hear and NOT the word of GOD. Choose wisely who you listen to.

    • James Grimes

      Thank you for TRUTH.

  • haroldcrews

    By including homosexuals he has now excluded the members of his congregation that reject homosexuality. There is no inclusion without exclusion.

    • TheBBP

      He has excluded the members who believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God.

      • hangman

        It is the word of God. You seem to have no issue of excluding those members who are following the word of God.

    • wandakate

      Doesn’t it seem like he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He apparently is striving and focusing on having all of them there, the saved as well as the unsaved, the pure in heart as well as the sinners all under his roof. He’s mixing right with wrong and he’s in trouble with the LORD. The real Christians will know that it’s not right and not what GOD wants and they will get out.

  • Andrew Milam

    Did I miss some point where we moved into some sort of New New Testament? From what I’ve read, in my Bible, homosexuality was a sin in the Old Testament and was STILL a sin in the New Testament! See 1 Corinthians 6:9 if you would like to read a pretty straight forward New Testament scripture regarding the New Testament stance on homosexuality! I live just a couple of hours outside of Nashville. Members of Grace Point Church, there comes a time when a certain clearly drawn line can be crossed. It’s time for you to seek a different church!

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      This “pastor” should not in any way be considered reflective of the many fine Bible-believing, Christ-following, Christians in Franklin, Tennessee. (I apologize, in advance, for the triple redundancy, but it is necessary in these dark times of apostasy.)

  • Gail Petersen

    “Follow me” – JESUS ……. not secular men

  • truthinaction

    Darn it! Who knows? Maybe churches will start allowing liars, addicts, thieves, and adulterers in the door.

    • Kathleen Jones

      Yes thats exactly it!! Who can say they have never lied, or stolen, etc??
      We can let all in to listen (including me and you) to be loved, and find out the truth but we have to obey the word of God and have discernment from Holy Spirit and then we will not want to sin and upset God who we love. Those who continue to sin willingly must not be in leadership. Most of these you mentioned including homosexuals and sexually immoral and those who shed innocent blood are an abomination to God. He says it himself and in Revelation He says they will not enter Heaven. Unless they repent.

      • truthinaction

        All too often “repent” is left out of the Gospel message. Instead it is marketed with a people pleasing free forgiveness tone – And I think that is from a selfish numbers mindset.

  • truthinaction

    Looks to me (by his attire) that he accepted fruity long before he verbalized it….

  • rlgoodnews

    Maybe we should allow in the pedophiles and people who want to marry their goat too!!

  • Andrew Tracey

    Sinners didnt like what you were saying so they left? Good, you can not walk with God while holding hands with Satan

  • hangman

    I think someone needs to inform this apostate that he is not God. Therefore he has no right to change that which God commands.

  • don sands

    All sin is sin against God. Homosexuality is sin. Fornication is sin. Christian can surely struggle with sin, and we will struggle, and we must fight, because God is holy, and He calls us to live holy. Those who pat sin on the back are still dead in their sin. Sad. And there are those whom God will not grant repentance as well (Hebrews).

  • hangman

    If this man is not sure he never was saved. Whatever presence he is talking about isn’t that of God…It is the other fellow…

    “I am not sure I am right, but I am sure I sense the presence of God, and I know I’m doing my best,” he said. “And I believe before God almighty to this we have been called, and here we stand.” – See more at: http://christiannews.net/2015/01/30/megachurch-leader-claims-divine-wind-moved-him-to-fully-accept-members-practicing-homosexuality/#sthash.2bYkD3pX.dpuf

  • Disciple of Jesus

    That speech proves why “church” should never be an institution to join, nor a tax-exempt organization to support. Thankfully, Jesus called me out of this Babylonian system over 7 years ago.

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      You make an excellent point. Are you a house-churcher?

      • Disciple of Jesus

        Hello ~ I edited my comment. Since being called out of “church” as I’d known it for 30+ years, it’s been a journey for the past 6 years … returning to my First Love ~ Jesus Christ.
        The first thing I had to repent of was thinking I knew what ‘church’ was all about and ask the Father to burn up any doctrine of man that did not proceed from Him. Some sacred cows went up in flames.
        I don’t think it matters whether we gather in a private home, a private or public building, as much as it matters why we gather. Jesus should be the center, not the one man show.

      • Disciple of Jesus

        Quite interesting. Tonight I came across this article – a warning of what can happen when the ‘church’ marries the state.

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11380968/Compulsory-income-tax-on-Christians-drives-Germans-away-from-Protestant-and-Catholic-churches.html

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Yes, and for this reason, I think that house churches are best, and that as the persecution increases, we will see a return to them. Europe is the cesspool of the world, in a moral sense, and the Bible is quickly becoming outlawed as hate speech over there.

          • MamaBear

            I think there are still good churches and they can provide ministries that it would be hard for a house church to do. But, when persecution comes, those ministries will be gone and all we will have at that point is house churches.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            I concede the point to MamaBear! You are correct: we are nowhere near the all-out apostasy that would require nothing but house churches. And, we are still a very long way from the kind of persecution that is being experienced in the 10/40 window. Well put!

  • Faye

    Part of the great falling away from the truth of the Word of God!!! Shameful!!

  • Jeff Zahorsky

    “I am not sure I am right,” —There’s a reason why God has revealed his Word. He holds it above his name, the name above all names. Jesus didn’t say, “Thy wind is truth.” He said, “thy Word is truth.”

  • Reason2012

    “Our position that these siblings of ours, other than heterosexual, … cannot have the full privileges of membership, but only partial membership, has changed,”

    Might as well say “these siblings of ours, other than repentant sinners, cannot have full privileges of membership, but only partial membership, has changed”

    God has not changed.

    1 John 2:3-4 “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

    “Mitchell, 46, claims that God moved upon him three years ago to begin rethinking his position on inclusion in the congregation.”

    Where did God change His mind to start allowing those who make it clear they will blatantly sin to stay in a church?

    Hebrews 7:26 “For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;”

    “These people left because in spite of the fact that they love GracePointe and they loved all of us, they could not bear even a conversation lest it promised to yield a conclusion they already had,”

    No, people left because they realize a church is not being lead by God that allows those who admit they will blatantly sin to stay among them.

    “Inclusion means that we can live together in agreement and disagreement,..”

    God never says we should agree to allow those who admit they will blatantly sin to be among us – but instead to remove them from the church.

    1 Corinthians 5:1-7 “It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us”

    Pray for this man that God might open his eyes to the truth before he leads more astray.

  • Cutenu2

    Ya, that was not the Holy Spirit that moved on him. He’s talking out of both sides of his mouth. So someone that is committing adultery is going to counsel me on my marriage? No thank you. I would have walked out if I was there, that’s for sure.

  • Atlanta Pastor

    COMMON SENSE should have told him that the mass exodus of members was a big sign he was WRONG. But this is what that homosexual perversion spirit does. It strips you of even common sense. Thats why he had to blame it on the “divine mind” spookiness. I hope his church ends up completely vacant. Thats what he deserves for scattering the sheep.

    • Gary

      He isn’t even a Christian. He is not qualified to be a pastor.

  • Harry Oh!

    The attendance speaks for itself, he alienated his congregation along with God.

  • Jeanie Nelson

    1 Tim 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times
    some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful
    spirits and doctrines of demons, 2by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,… We are to be kind but also truthful. To not tell the truth is to not love.

  • bre

    wrong…we can extend compassion and love, but to allow them to practice sexual sin? it says in the word of god to not even eat with those who are in sexual sin. have you lost your mind? you are here to minister truth, not bend the rules so they can happily go to hell with your help. shame on you

  • Guest

    I here a lot of hot air which non is divine

  • The Lone Ranger

    I hear a lot of hot air which none is Divine

  • Thomas Forbes

    If somebody preaches anyyhing other than this gospel, let him be accursed… i read that somewhere. This is why I’m writing a book called America’s Burger King Jesus; the have it your way God. I want to challenge the’s loose teachings of what our Father in heaven wants us to teach. False teachings and acceptance of sin in the church is like saccharine To the body of Christ. It’s sweet to the taste, but causes cancer.

    • Lisa

      “America’s Burger King Jesus” …..now I must wipe the spewed coffee off my monitor. Oh my, that description is perfect.

  • http://brandonwyse.com Brandon Wyse

    Money(Mammon) and social pressure made him compromise the gospel… you and, nor any, will get away from changing the words of an unmoving God….

  • NorrinRadd

    I’m glad they posted this article. The editorial decision to label the pastor as “apostate” shows they are not interested in unbiased journalism, and alerted me to “unfollow” them on social media.

    • Gary

      But the guy is apostate.

      • NorrinRadd

        The technical definition of “apostate” is along the lines of having willfully renounced a faith or ideology. As long as the pastor still considers himself Xian, it is not the job of a reporter to declare him “apostate.” I do not see any clear announcement that this is on the op-ed page, so I take it the writer is a *reporter*. *Reporters* should not insert opinions or editorial comments.

        • NorrinRadd

          Oh, wait, after squinting and closely examining it, I see this is filed under “Apostasy,” so I guess that’s Christian News Network’s clumsy way of saying it’s “opinion.” And seeing some of the other things filed under “Apostasy,” I see I’m right in my assessment that this CNN is not a reliable source.

        • Gary

          Technically, Mitchell may not be apostate. He might just be an infidel who is pretending to be a Christian. Whatever he is, he is an unbeliever headed for Hell.

          • NorrinRadd

            That’s one possibility. Another is that he and all Xians are saved by grace through faith, and that those who believe we must follow certain “laws” in order to remain saved have fallen from grace and are severed from Christ.

          • Gary

            I don’t believe Mitchell has been saved. He is not a believer. His support of homosexuals is proof.

  • http://www.OpenAirSeattle.blogspot.com/ OpenAirSeattle

    The devils gathering kindling for the fire.

    Matthew 13:30

    Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I
    will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind
    them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

  • Stephen B

    2 Timothy 4:3-4 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

  • Sonshine

    What is the level of sin? For we have all sinned ____

  • http://www.OpenAirSeattle.blogspot.com/ OpenAirSeattle

    Freakin dude looks lie a demon!

  • kamunrah

    Love the sinners, hate the sin. Love the homosexuals but hate homosexuality. Meaning, homosexuals need repentance of their lifestyle. Other deviant sexual practices should otherwise be given a fair go as the homosexuals been claiming all along.

  • kamunrah

    NO Christian hates a homosexual, that’s a fact. However a Christian disaprove with those that continue to practice this lifestyle.

  • Marty Girl

    It is because he is being black mailed. Has nothing to do with the “spirit” but what he has been engaged in behind closed doors. Almost all of the pulpits are teaming with homosexuals and that is why the church is going into judgment.

  • Marty Girl

    To love a homosexual is to pray for them and help them in their walk but unless they have stopped practicing and been set free they are still a threat and a danger to the body and to the young people. Many become predators and feed off the flock just as the Roman Catholic has been doing for centuries. To love them does not mean you give them free access to your children. That would be foolishness and God holds us accountable for what we expose our children to for the sake of acceptance and to avoid persecution. Today is a great example of why Israel went into captivity and it’s because of pressure from politicians and others who were secretly embedded into the cult.

  • Norma Ross

    Love the sinner, but hate the sin. Homosexualality is a sin against God who made everyone. The Bible is clear and does not change. Homosexuals should be allowed to come to church to learn about God’s Word, but they shouldn’t be allowed to be married to each other or change the Bible. God will have the last word on this issue.

  • msm6290

    No surprise here, sad but true. The bible clearly says, the very elect shall be deceived. The closer we get to the End Times, the more of this we will see.

  • Margie Rap

    Numbers 32:23 But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the Lord: and be sure your sin will find you out.If
    this pastor is harboring some serious sin in his own life, God will
    expose it eventually. It’s almost as if he cared more, for the
    homosexuals than decent families that ended up leaving his church.
    There’s something wrong with that picture.

  • Linda

    OK. Not. We must be holy, as our Father in Heaven is holy.

  • Andy Brown

    Carrie Underwood’s preacher, smh.

    Leviticus 18:22 KJB: “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    James 4:17 KJB: “Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
    Proverbs 14:9 KJB: “Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour.”

    2 Timothy 3:13 KJB: “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”

    2 Timothy 3:2-7 KJB: “For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

    Jude 1:7 KJB: “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Romans 1:24-32 KJB: “Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves. 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, *NOT ONLY DO THE SAME, BUT HAVE PLEASURE IN THEM THAT DO THEM.”

    Isaiah 5:20-21, 23-24 KJB: “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! . . 23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! 24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.”

    *emphasis added

  • Harry Gregory

    I pray every homosexual person finds their way to a Bible believing/truth preaching church congregation.
    I pray that while they are there they find love and acceptance from the fellow sinners that attend ther.
    I pray that all the sinners, gay and staight alike, hear God’s truth from the pulpit and are led through the Holy Spirit to repentance and redemtion.
    I pray that God’s grace and mercy are given to both gay and straight sinners.
    However, the Truth must be taught and Scripture must be followed. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. If it isn’t Truth, there is no Life.
    I pray this Pastor isn’t tickling ears to gain acceptance from the world. I pray he preaches Truth, no matter who is offended by it, but that he does it with the love and gentleness that Jesus would use.

  • Paul Greeno

    IN NO WAY IS THEIR A DIVINE WIND. ALSO YOUR CHURCH CANNOT BE A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST. YOU KNOW IF YOU STUDIED THE BIBLE HOMOSEXUALS WHO ARE ACTIVE IS WRONG AND A GREAT SIN. PRAYING FOR YOU PASTOR THAT GOD WILL OPEN YOUR EYES AS TIME IS SHORT BEFORE THE LORD’S RETURNS.

  • Moke

    our King accepts people where they are. He doesn’t ask them to change before He accepts them. however, once we accept Christ as Savior and Lord, He does move us away from things He has stated in His word are sin and unacceptable in the lives of believers. be holy as He is holy. this understanding is impossible without the Holy Spirit living in us and explaining it to us, empowering us to accomplish it. God’s Word is an amazing book, it will change us into the image of His Son, if we allow it to.

  • Better AndBetter

    Cool! But god’s most bitter groveler, Gary, is gonna be mighty upset!

    • Gary

      I’m not upset. Mitchell isn’t the first fake Christian to endorse homosexuals, and he won’t be the last. And many of them think they will get away with it, but they won’t.

      • Better AndBetter

        Be afraid! Always be afraid!

  • jason bourne

    We are all parents and we should support our kids as best as we can. However, God’s word stands the same regardless of our emotions.

  • Prisha Brock

    What part of homosexuals will NOT inherit the kingdom of God do you not understand? All people Should be welcomed in church but if you see them being led to hell you should guide them into heaven with the Word of God, NOT accept their sin and tell them its okay. WOE to the one who leads them astray!!! Love does matter and I love everyone that is WHY I will tell them that God can not and will not allow sin into heaven. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. Knowing this why would you okay it. I Do love homosexuals and I want them to know about God’s love and that they are truely being deceived with this lie that it is okay to be gay. I would only hope if someone sees me sinning according to Gods word they would share it with me. I feel this mans love but he is being deceived thinking homosexuals can get married and go to heaven, pray for him too.

  • Scott Davidson

    Woe to those who want their ears tickled and to those who willingly tickle the ears of those who want to hear what they want to hear.

  • Sandy N.

    2 Timothy (ESV)
    4:1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5 As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
    I don’t believe it was God moving anything upon this man about re-thinking his position. His “divine wind” smells of sulphur.

  • Tassieo

    This Pastor said- “I am not sure I’m right”. – IF IN DOUBT DON’T. This Pastor needs much prayer to bring him back to JESUS Christ our Lord and Saviour. Blessings.

    • the Colosseum is full

      I am certain he is mistaken, but the church is already full of adulterers ; at least half full .
      that being the case it’s no reason to cast the homosexuals out.. lol 🙂
      I think he can clarify the church’s position on homosexuality to be equal to those members who have deemed adulterous

      • Tassieo

        Bless you for your reply. I am not in America so don’t really know what the situation is there, only know some things from the News, this Forum and articles written. I don’t go to a church here where I live, but am in fellowship with other Christians.

  • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

    I applaud the pastor for placing empathy, humanity, and Reason above untenable, ancient beliefs.
    Benevolent Reciprocity–do unto others as you would have them do unto you–is the greatest of tenets. Most religions teach it, but relatively few members abide by it. The major problem being that having codified that tenet into scripture, most religions then built walls of exclusive dogma that crushed Benevolent Reciprocity beneath and blocked the path to understanding.

    • Gary

      If Mitchell is not going to follow the Bible then he should stop pretending to be Christian.

      • NorrinRadd

        If you’re not going to abide by “Treat others as you would have others treat you,” perhaps you should not pretend to be Xian.

        • Gary

          But I do treat others as I would have them treat me.

        • pax2u

          I see that Gary wants the government to execute homosexuals to full fill his belief in the law of God,

          • Gary

            You believe the pope, but you don’t believe God.

          • pax2u

            I believe in my Christian God Jesus Christ

            you believe that the government must execute homosexuals

          • Gary

            You have only heard of Jesus Christ. You don’t know him. You’re lost in Catholicism headed for Hell.

          • pax2u

            Gary you are a sad and angry person, very violent wanting armed revolution, and the government to execute homosexuals, you support the hate of the Westboro Baptist Church when they protest the funerals of soldiers who died for American, and you support anti Semitic fascists,

            I will continue to my Christian God Jesus Christ for your eternal soul, amen

          • Gary

            You are a promoter of theological and sexual perversion.

          • pax2u

            and Gary I grieve for you anger and hatred of others

            I will continue to pray to my Christian God Jesus Christ for your eternal soul, amen

          • Gary

            My eternal soul is safe. You should pray for yourself.

          • pax2u

            I will continue to my Christian God Jesus Christ, thank you and you have my pity, my prayers and my forgiveness

      • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

        It is a sad affair, but speaks a lot of the moderators of this blog, that my civil reply to you was deleted. I was only suggesting that you should not throw stones when it is quite clear that no one follows many of the Bible laws. Jesus himself did not rescind most of the old laws, including the killing of witches and the stoning of incorrigible children.

        Interestingly enough, I once wrote a letter to the editor making that last point in response to politicians call for a “return to biblical laws” (as though we were ever then in our secular nation). The afternoon after the letter was published, I received a phone call from a man who had completely missed my point. He thanked my for supporting the idea of stoning children as a lesson to others.

  • Barry O Johnson

    “… the art of conversation is a holy calling …” Has this become the new shibboleth for those pastors acceptance rather than standing squarely and unmovable on God’s word?

  • rjc

    Love comes in many different forms! Sadly, the homosexual lifestyle does not come in a neat little package. Try following a day in the life of a gay. All types of sexual addictions, infidelity, and distrust. Don’t let them fool you. Biblical love can look harsh and cold at times. “Tough love” is the deepest love! If you want to love the homosexual, tell the truth by not twisting God’s word. The homosexual community can be quite beguiling in promoting their perversion.
    We must never forget that there is a devil who is licking his chops and is very satisfied with this new wave of acceptance. We must stand firm and stand for righteousness and get ready for persecution.

  • angel

    I smell tithe money coming from homosexuals….which is the main lust of apostate pastors.

  • http://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/ Ted R. Weiland

    Wind indeed! Not divine, but of his own making! Romans 1:26-32.

  • Lloyd Peacock

    Thank you pastor for following the leading of Holy Spirit. There are few pastors today that would have the courage that you have shown. You have put it all on the line in your service to Jesus. I have read several of the posts and feel sickened by the fake love these folks show. Let me assure you that the deceiver is not working through you, but through them that can’t believe that God has many sheep, and they are not all in the same flock. There is a Mighty Wind moving through the Church, and God is about to use the foolish to confound the wise. Your burden at this time is heavy, but He will lighten it in time. May God surround you with His angels and protect you from the enemy.

    • Gary

      LOL! I don’t know what to say to someone who is insane. I guess I’ll just laugh at you.

      • Lloyd Peacock

        Thank you Gary, I’m sure you are a blessing to many people. I have papers that certify I’m sane. I pray that you can prove your worthiness in the eyes of God.

        • Gary

          If you are sane, then you are an actor. But your pretending to be a Christian isn’t even fooling Christians, much less God.

          • Lloyd Peacock

            You are right Gary, I am an actor and a Christian. I did this video a few years ago to prove what a good actor I am. Thank God all southern pastors are not like the ones I imitate in the video, but some that I have heard are:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l49i0RvkXTE

          • Gary

            Are you a homosexual?

          • Lloyd Peacock

            I usually tell people who ask me that question? Unless you want to sleep with me it’s none of your business. However, having been in a relationship with the same man for the past 47 years, I guess I am. This is my husband:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8S9kPGtFUo

          • Gary

            That explains a lot. You two are both perverts. And given your age, you will soon be in Hell.

          • Lloyd Peacock

            Okeedokee Gary, we’ll see you there.

          • Gary

            You won’t see me in Hell because I am not going there. But you won’t be seeing anything in Hell because it is very dark in Hell.

          • Bob Burke

            Yeah don’t worry about Gary, he has committed the unforgivable sin in these forums so often it may take an eternity to just list all the reasons he shouldn’t be allowed in heaven.

            But God’s grace is great, so even he might make the cut.

          • Lloyd Peacock

            It’s great that we don’t get to decide who goes to heaven. If we did none of the disciples would have made it.

  • chamuiel

    Wholesomness? Does that mean they give up being gay?

  • BeBeX

    I’m reminded of two adages, ‘the bigger they are, the harder they fall’ and ‘if you don’t stand for something you will fall for anything.’ When the apostle Paul said, “the apostasy must come first,” I did not know it meant in the churches, I wrongly assumed it meant in the world. Sitting in a garage does not make one a car, anymore than sitting in a church makes one a christian. A Christian is called to a higher standard which includes following God’s Divine Holy Word. We cannot pick and choose which Holy Scriptures we obey.

    God is truly cleaning out the local churches for The Church, The Bride of Christ, without blemish. How sad so many are falling for the culture and society of the day, which is continually changing. God’s Holy Word, has never and will never change. His Word is for ALL mankind through ALL the ages.

    Mr. Mitchell said of those who opposed him, “who so deeply believed they knew God’s heart on this matter.” Mr. Mitchell, you too, can know the Mind/Heart of God if you will read and heed His Divine Holy Word. A member of GracePointe who left LA to return to Tennessee was looking for a progressive church in the Southeast. It was very important to her to join a christian church with a strong scriptural basis. IF you want a church with a strong scriptural base, then how can you or anyone go against the very Scriptures in God’s Holy Word?

    For the Wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of Him from the Creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His Eternal Power and Godhead; so that we are without excuse; Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imagination and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the Glory of the Uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and to four-footed beasts and to creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lust of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: who changed the Truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, Who is blessed forever. Amen (Romans 1:18-25 KJV)

  • e1313ruth

    Show me in the Bible where God allows homosexual marriage and that homosexuals go to heaven.. It is not there.. And if it is not there maybe the pastor himself has the wrong bedfellow..

  • Chris Nielson

    He cares more about the money than the truth. He won’t be able to take that money to hell though!

  • e1313ruth

    Is is because satan caused men to think they are Gods (Genesis 3) they are trapped in homosexuality..Romans 1-21 through 26 shows us why they become homosexuals

    21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,……………………………. and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

  • Manfrom Modesto

    ummm… That was Satan farting in your teeth. Pray for wisdom, and while you’re at it, pray for discernment.

  • Lisa

    And did the dried up collection plate have anything to do with it?

  • silicon28

    “An apostate pastor in the Bible Belt…”

    Thus another group of so-called “evangelical Christians” decides they are judge, jury, and executioner… (Let me take a moment to do that favorite thing of evangelicals – I’ll proof-text it here for you… You all forgot to read Romans 14:4, didn’t you?)

    Good Lord… when Jesus returns? Most of you folks are going to find out how and why YOU are the “whitewashed tombs” he spoke of the last time… This truly makes me feeling like both crying and laughing my @ss off…

    • pax2u

      well Gary here has already said that he would execute homosexuals as he says is God’s will

      • silicon28

        It’s my first time linking over to these “fine, upstanding, Christian folks…” I’m pretty certain I won’t be back…

        • Gary

          Thank you.

          • silicon28

            Oh Gary… I certainly don’t have time to deal with your “manly” crap that you probably tell yourself is in the name of Jesus… (And yeah, I’ve looked at your comments…) Wait and see what you actually hear on judgment day brother; it’s probably gonna shock your socks off…

          • Gary

            I’m not your brother. And I have not been impressed by your comments.

          • silicon28

            So…??? If you are not a Christian? Then what are you doing hanging around saying some of the stuff you are saying? Otherwise? You’d better revisit those Scriptures you seem to imply mean so much to you… Because “in the Lord?” we ARE brothers… whether you like that fact or not… (Sucks for you being aware that we’ll share eternity together, doesn’t it?)

          • Gary

            I do not believe you are a Christian.

          • silicon28

            Well? Hate to break it to you here Gary… But Romans 10:9 says that what you think or believe? Does not matter the least little bit,,, But Romans 14:4 – or for that matter? Matthew 7 makes it even more clear…

            What you “believe” or think?: Doesn’t matter in the least… Keep on with the judgmental attitude – keep earning your place in hell…

          • Gary

            And you are not judging me? Sure you are. You’re a hypocrite. Are you catholic?

          • silicon28

            Oops… Looks like I hit the moderation limit… So I’ll truncate and leave out my thoughts of you that were at the end…

            What would it matter if I was a Roman Catholic or not? (Or? Would that
            automatically mean I was a “Papist” and there for not a “real”
            Christian? As to one of your other questions? Of course I’m a
            hypocrite; so is every other human being that has ever drawn breath.
            But?

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            LOL! Everyone who offers even an ounce of resistance to what Gary says is suspected of being a “Catholic.”

            I wonder how many of his fellow fundamentalists he has thrown under the bus in the same way because they would dare challenge his decrees?

          • pax2u

            dare not say that Gary is a Baptist, he would be afraid to be compared to the Great Christian, Baptist, and American Billy Graham,

            Gary is a proud supporter of the hate of the Fred Phelps Westboro Baptist Church

          • pax2u

            you are lucky to not to be the brother of Gary,

            Gary supports the Westboro Baptist Church as they protest the funerals of soldiers who died for America

            Gary who supports fascists who hate Jews, and Blacks

            Gary who wants to execute gays and would be happy to be the executioner

            we are all lucky to not be brothers of sad, Gary, who is so filled with hatred

            God bless you for your patience with someone like Gary who is filled with hatred

          • Gary

            You are a dimwit. Imbecile.

          • pax2u

            and you are a hateful bigot who wants to execute homosexuals, and I pray to my Christian God Jesus Christ for your eternal soul, amen

          • Gary

            Are you afraid you would be executed? Or maybe your boyfriend would be?

          • pax2u

            Gary I did not know that you were a muslim and advocated sharia law

          • silicon28

            Oh Gary… I certainly don’t have time to deal with your “manly” crap that you probably tell yourself is in the name of Jesus… (And yeah, I’ve looked at your comments…) Wait and see what you actually hear on judgment day brother; it’s probably gonna shock your socks off…

        • pax2u

          No, Jesus Christ is God, and the Christian God of forgiveness, I am a Christian Gary, of the New Testament and the New Covenant,

          now your turn Gary

          Gary you are willing to execute homosexuals for the Government?

          • Gary

            You answered the wrong post. Please offer some Biblical evidence to prove that God does not want homosexuals to be executed. And if you cannot, then shut up and go away.

          • Gary

            You answered the wrong post. Please offer some Biblical evidence to prove that God does not want homosexuals to be executed. And if you cannot, then shut up and go away.

          • pax2u

            I said no to you Gary, I am a Christian and Jesus Christ is the Christian God of Love and Forgiveness

            Gary are you willing to execute homosexuals for the State?

          • Gary

            I knew you would be unable to back up your words with Biblical proof. You have proven that you are just another homosexual pimp. Jesus Christ is you ENEMY, not your savior.

          • pax2u

            so Gary you want to execute gays for the state? sounds much like hitler, and other fascist that you embrace

          • pax2u

            sad that you would be willing to execute others for your “state” very sad, but then again you support anti Semitic Fascists

          • Gary

            Prove that I support Fascists. Bet you can’t prove that any better than you can prove anything from the Bible. You are all mouth. That is probably why the catholic priests like you.

          • pax2u

            do you agree with General Smedley Butler?

          • Gary

            I agree with Smedley Butler about war. What is your proof that Butler was a fascist?

          • pax2u

            In 1933, he became involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot, when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists were planning a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler selected to lead a march of veterans to become dictator, similar to other Fascist regimes at that time.

          • Gary

            You need to read more. Butler refused to participate in the effort to overthrow FDR. Ignorance is a terrible thing.

          • pax2u

            so Butler supported FDR and his Social Programs, and his involvement in World War II, thanks

          • Gary

            I didn’t say that. Read again what I said.

          • pax2u

            It is your decision to support those who hate soldiers who have died for American, those who are fascists, and those who hate Jews, it is your decision

          • Gary

            You still have not proven that I support fascists. You are just awful at proving what you say

          • pax2u

            so you are correct you support Socialism

          • Gary

            You are so inept. YOu are in over your head. Go try to converse with some children. But even they will probably know more than you.

          • pax2u

            is your sheet and hood back from the cleaners?

          • Gary

            LOL You just cannot compete.

          • pax2u

            I will continue to pray to my Christian God Jesus Christ for your eternal soul, amen

          • Gary

            No, you won’t.

          • pax2u

            sorry sad gary, but I do pray to my Christian God Jesus Christ, and I pity you for your hatred of Christians,

          • Gary

            Jesus Christ is NOT your God. You are wrong about that too. You are wrong about everything.

          • pax2u

            I ask my Christian God Jesus Christ to forgive you

          • pax2u

            In 1933, he became involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot, when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists were planning a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler selected to lead a march of veterans to become dictator, similar to other Fascist regimes at that time.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Wow. I wonder if Fundisi/Neiman will support your use of perverse sexual innuendo in your denigration of Catholics?

          • Gary

            Don’t know, and don’t care.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Hmmm… It seems he will have to use a little more than a loving rebuke against a fellow Christian brother.

          • Gary

            You don’t really consider homosexuality to be perverse, do you ?

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Indeed, I do consider it to be perverse. *GASP*

          • Gary

            Yeah, I’m surprised. That puts you at odds with pax2u, spoob, and some others

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            What about it?

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            What about it?

          • Gary

            Yeah, I’m surprised. That puts you at odds with pax2u, spoob, and some others

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            You need to instruct Neiman/Fundisi on this matter, too.

        • pax2u

          No, Jesus Christ is God, and the Christian God of forgiveness, I am a Christian Gary, of the New Testament and the New Covenant,

          now your turn Gary

          Gary you are willing to execute homosexuals for the Government?

      • Gary

        Did God say to execute homosexuals, or not? And use the Bible to prove your point.

        • pax2u

          no

          • Gary

            And what Biblical evidence can you offer for that answer?

          • pax2u

            Jesus Christ is God, and a God of Love and forgiveness

          • Gary

            Jesus Christ is God. The very same God who said “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” Leviticus 20:13
            Are you claiming God did not say that? Or do you claim God cancelled that order later? If the latter, then cite the Biblical passage that says that .

          • pax2u

            so Gary you are willing to execute homosexuals for the Government?

          • Gary

            ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.

          • wandakate

            Oh goodness, that is demanding the truth, which will set one free. BUT, I have another questions that reminds me of what you just asked here. You said, “Or do you claim GOD cancelled the order later, and if the latter, then cite the Biblical passage that says that”.
            I read the 4th commandment, REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY, 6 days hath thou to do all thy work, but the 7th day is holy unto the LORD they GOD, and in that day shall you do No work…
            Now, I have the same questions, Did GOD cancelled that 4th commandment? And If he did, where is that to be found in scripture? The old and new testament goes together. We can cross-reference using them both, it’s not one or the other. Does that commandment still apply? Was it done away with when JESUS died on the cross? Show that to me anyone, and thank you.

          • wandakate

            He’s not just all love and mercy and kindness and forgiveness, He is also “angry” with our sins.” Vengeance Is mine said the LORD, I will repay”. GOD hates sin and His wrath will come upon all sinners with the pouring out of the Bowl/Vial judgments by the Angels. We must obey. He said, “If you love me, keep my commandments”. He hates our disobedience. We either are for Him or we are against Him. We are saved by grace, but will be judged by our works/deeds.

          • wandakate

            He’s not just all love and mercy and kindness and forgiveness, He is also “angry” with our sins.” Vengeance Is mine said the LORD, I will repay”. GOD hates sin and His wrath will come upon all sinners with the pouring out of the Bowl/Vial judgments by the Angels. We must obey. He said, “If you love me, keep my commandments”. He hates our disobedience. We either are for Him or we are against Him. We are saved by grace, but will be judged by our works/deeds.

      • wandakate

        GOD has created a place call Hell for satan and his demons, the false prophets, the antichrist and all the people who have not accepted Him as their LORD and SAVIOR and all who have rejected Him and His Commandments. And he created also Heaven (the Kingdom of GOD), and Homosexuals will not be in Heaven.

        • pax2u

          will sinners be in Heaven?

    • wandakate

      Do Christians use bad words or is that now also accepted?

      • silicon28

        The Apostle Paul used those “bad words” you seem to think are so anathema. Look up the literal translation for the term μὴ γένοιτο
        and then look to the actual idiomatic translation that was in use in Paul’s time… Best translation? “Hell no!” So much for your “G-rated” Christian world, huh? (Then again, at least half of the Old Testament should have prepared you for truth like this…) Jeesh… Lord Jesus, please save us from your “followers…”

        • wandakate

          You don’t need LORD JESUS to save you from G-rated Christians like me, you need Him to safe you from your sins, so you wouldn’t even think about writing anything that JESUS wouldn’t approve of in your comments. There’s nothing wrong with General Audiences (aka G-rated). I know about the truth, and it’s the truth that will set you free when you discover what it is and it’s not about bad words. The apostle must have confessed them too afterwards.

          • silicon28

            You really want to argue about this? First? It’s THE Lord Jesus… No need to use all caps… (But you really need to learn when to use the definite article.) Most folks who understand what the word “κύριος” means will automatically understand the emphasis. And most of us understand that Jesus came to “SAVE” us from our sins, not “safe” us from much of anything… The saddest thing of all here? Is that some of us have figured out that Jesus came to take away our sin… not our minds… So we’ve figured out trying to say what we mean in a proper way actually matters…

      • silicon28

        The Apostle Paul used those “bad words” you seem to think are so anathema. Look up the literal translation for the term μὴ γένοιτο
        and then look to the actual idiomatic translation that was in use in Paul’s time… Best translation? “Hell no!” So much for your “G-rated” Christian world, huh? (Then again, at least half of the Old Testament should have prepared you for truth like this…) Jeesh… Lord Jesus, please save us from your “followers…”

  • Jet Blak

    itching ears. he looks like a demon so those who love the Lord and know the Word won’t be deceived. anyone that buys into his foolishness will do so willingly. hell is a choice.

  • Bingo

    What a fool he has become. I am glad, however, that he has been open about his spiritual compromise into approving sin, so that people can now make a decision to break away from being under his foul leadership. That “wind” that blew at him was the evil wind of Satanic influence spoken of in:

    Ephesians 4:14
    Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth.

    Too bad that satanic “wind of new teaching” is coming from the pulpit.

    • wandakate

      It is a crying shame, however JESUS warned us of all of these things b/c we are living in the last day before His return and it will just get worse and worse as time passes by. Do you not believe that satan has infiltrated the churches with his lies? Satan has his own ministers that are spreading all sorts of lies right from the pulpit. The once saved always saved gospel and the feel good gospel, the prosperity gospel, the name it and claim it gospel and all the other gospels. The bible says they will fill us up with what our itching ears want to hear in these last days.
      Just b/c a man is at the podium doesn’t mean he’s a Christian or ever has received the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT…They are ministers of darkness in an evil world and we are fighting against things in the spiritual world that are unseen. Keep your eyes on JESUS, and pray that you will be worthy to stand before Him on that day.

      • Bingo

        Yes, I sure do believe Satan is quite busy infiltrating the Church and the weak pulpits with his lies and causing compromise among our spiritual leaders.

        There is only ONE gospel.

        • wandakate

          YES, and that is the gospel of JESUS CHRIST and the coming kingdom of GOD. He told the disciples to go out and preach the gospel to every living creature into all the world and then the end would come. Time is about up. Satan knows he has but a short time to accomplish his dirty work and he’s in the churches to fill those pews (mega churches) and bring them in with false doctrine that will tickle their itching ears to hell.
          Today’s gospel is not the gospel that JESUS wanted preached. It’s a feel good watered down gospel of sorts and it’s ruining people b/c they don’t know what their Bibles tell them, they only really listen to the preachers who may be right or wrong. Today it’s hard to tell as there are so many wolves in sheeps clothing.
          But, remember, JESUS said, “Not everyone who says to me LORD, LORD, on that day will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do the will of my FATHER, which is in Heaven”. In other words, IF we do not obey His commands (ALL 10 of them) and follow Him, we will not be going, and what we believe won’t matter.
          It’s what his angles have written down in the book of life that counts. If your name is there, you will head, Enter, my good and faithful servant. If your name is not there, you will hear, Depart from me you who committed iniquity
          .

          • Bingo

            Don’t go too far, now. Satan is also infiltrating the churches with about a handful of people in the pews.

            For the believer, there are far more than 10 commands we need to adhere to, and our commands are not written down, so legalism is counter-productive to victorious and powerful Christian living. That is the blessing of having Holy Spirit living in and through us.

            Romans 10:4
            For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.

          • wandakate

            I understand as I have received (thank GOD) the HOLY SPIRIT. BUT, there is something here, those legalist laws that you are referring to were laws to the Jews in that day and age. The 10 Commandments were the laws that were written by the finger of GOD and placed inside of the Ark of the Covenant. We were always to obey them. All of those other 600+ laws were written for those people, and when JESUS died they were abolished.
            They were “ALL” of the sacrificial laws, “ALL” of the ceremonial laws”, and “ALL” of the common laws…
            We were commanded to Remember the Sabbath Day period.
            If all of the other 9 are still relevant then the 4th one didn’t just disappear. JESUS said, “Their worship is in vain as they keep for doctrines the commandments of men”. We keep man’s laws and want to do away with GOD’s laws. It won’t work in the end on judgment day. ALL of his MORAL laws still count, they are not obsolete as some like to say. We are still obligated to obey and keep all of them, but the others we do not need to keep. JESUS was the one who came and He was our sacrificial Lamb, the Lamb of GOD, that takes away the sins of the world. So once JESUS came they were not needed anymore. This is not mainstream preaching I understand, it comes from years of study and research to see exactly what in fact the scriptures do say. And that is what they say.
            Did JESUS not say, “IF you love me, keep my commandments”? What commandments was He referring to? And also why would He tell us to REMEMBER something that He wanted us to forget? Nobody can answer that, cause when you mention the commandments, they come in with this legalism stuff which is a total copout.
            We will be saved by grace, do you agree? BUT, we will be judged by our works. You can’t read the first part without reading the last part, as they go together.

          • Bingo

            The Law was given to show us what sin is—no one can obey it in himself. The law of Christ is written on our hearts. We obey Him because we heed Holy Spirit and are empowered to do so by Him.

            We will only be judged by our works for reward, not for sin or punishment. We are already saved by God’s great grace, who believe in Jesus Christ. We do not qualify for judgment….but only for the judgment of Christ where believers receive rewards for works done in obedience to God’s will.

          • wandakate

            Now that does makes sense does it not ? The law shows us our sins, yes, but the question is Are the 10 commandments obsolete????? Do they even matter anymore????? We “can” obey the commandments IF we love JESUS, b/c the HOLY SPIRIT will help us and lead us into all truth. Those who say we cannot obey them regardless are deceived. JESUS said we could do greater works that He did (if we want to, we will). It’s those who think they can’t that don’t succeed. I don’t do anything good to work my way into His graces. Not to be saved, “but” b/c I am already saved and it’s to please and obey Him. I don’t go to bad movies b/c of that, I don’t watch bad shows on t.v. b/c of that, I don’t sleep around b/c of that. There are “many” things that I do or don’t do because I am saved.
            I can do nothing without His strength when it comes to spiritual issues. And yes we are saved by His grace b/c we believe. However you may have missed one other important thing, if we stand up for Him we will be persecuted. He even told us that we might be martyred for our faith right???? We are going to suffer according to scripture through the Seal and Trumpet judgments of Revelation. They are satan’s wrath. However, since the wrath of GOD is not appointed unto the saved (the bride of CHRIST) then we “will not” suffer through the last 7 judgments as that is the wrath of GOD. JESUS is coming at the 7th trumpet to raise us up (rapture) and the angels will at that time gather all of the saved from the four corners of the globe. The dead who were asleep in their graves (according to scripture), will at that very time “rise up” or “be raptured” and we would remain will be “caught up” to meet Him and His angels in the clouds. SO, I think there will be some suffering, but whether you wish to call it judgment or not is up to you. We will receive rewards and crowns according to the scriptures in the Kingdom of GOD for our obedience and faithfulness here on earth according to GOD’s will. HIS will, not our will. Most Christians are deceived and want to be slack with their obedience but GOD is a just GOD and these people who want an escape route out of here are very deceived and fooled into believing a lie b/c none of that is in the Bible.

          • Bingo

            If we are waking with Jesus Christ, we are already in compliance with the Sinai law, and should we sin, we are still part of the family of God, because according to the New Covenant, no sin is ever imputed to us, for all sin has been punished by God on His precious Son.

            Before receiving Jesus, we couldn;t do one single good thing to change who we are before God—and after receovong Jesus, ther eis not one single thing we can do to change the fact that we are adopted sons and daughters of God. It is all based on what Jesus has done. It’s a better covenant. Being His children through faith in Jesus Christ makes us pleasing to God no matter what we do…knowing Him infuses us with His life and His power to live free of sin’s deadly pull.

            As for the Bema Sea judgment of Christ, you are correct—we will receive reward fro the things we have done that bring glory to God. the things we have done in the flesh—even good things—will be burned away. What is left is what glorifies God. Many Christians will receive more rewards than many others, but we all will belong to the Kingdom.

          • wandakate

            Basically I see this salvation issue as something 3 fold. We are saved by His grace, and mercy and our works please Him. We should “obey” all the commandments that are relevant for us today and the BIG 10 are a start. All of them, not just eight or nine or the ones we pick and choose, but “all” of them. JESUS said, “the harvest is plentiful, but the WORKERS are few.” So, right there He was saying that we need workers, we need people that will work for the Kingdom of GOD. I don’t believe we can work out way into Heaven like some religions teach, Catholics, Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses, however I do think that once we are truly saved our works will be a manifestation of our faith in CHRIST.
            I still do believe where it says that our names can be blotted out of the book of life.
            There is also a passage that says if we were once saved and we have fallen away from the faith and start living like an unsaved person again, we will lose our salvation, GOD can remove the HOLY SPIRIT from us, if that happens. So, some people do not agree with that. I think our relationship with Him matters, if we are constantly aware that He is there and that we need to please him in word and deed every single day. We are to pray daily, all day we can pray for His guidance. We are to fight off the evil one as he is always going to try and trip us up and get us to do or say the wrong thing.
            Obedience is the key, as JESUS said, “IF you love me keep my commandments”, and we would have to obey Him in order to do that.

          • Bingo

            The 10 commandments were never meant to be obeyed. they were created to show how far man has fallen—to show what sin is. The Sinai law was made old and had to vanish away:

            Hebrews 8:13
            When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

            We have a New covenant that extends to eternity and will never grow old or defunct:

            Hebrews 9:14-15
            Just think how much more the blood of Christ will purify our consciences from sinful deeds so that we can worship the living God. For by the power of the eternal Spirit, Christ offered himself to God as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. 15 That
            is why he is the one who mediates a new covenant between God and people, so that all who are called can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.

            As for “blotting out”, our sins are blotted out. We who have received salvation don’t ever have to worry about Jesus reneging on His promises. We are safely held in the Saviour’s TIGHT GRIP. He says that He will lose none of us. We already have salvation if we have had a true encounter with Jesus, and we have no need to be selling fear amongst the brethren that they can lose their salvation by bad behaviour, when as sinners destined for hellfire, our good behaviour didn’t gain us anything.

  • http://www.larryfarlow.com/ Larry Farlow

    If your “soul” is telling you something different than the scriptures you’d better to stop and consider the condition of a soul like that. Very perilous place to be.

  • BarkingDawg

    Hey, good for him.
    (Although the term “Divine wind” makes me think of God eating too much cabbage)

  • Steve Ashley

    I know Stan Mitchell pretty well. In fact, he married my wife Deb and I. All I can say is that I will have to give him the benefit of the doubt on this issue. Stan is very smart, very deep, and very in tune with the creator. I don’t think Stan is embracing homosexuality per se, but instead embracing sinners who need Jesus as much as the rest of us. It is God’s will that none should perish (including homosexuals). It is a fine line to walk, and a controversial stance to take, but it’s certainly bold. I firmly believe that Jesus (God) is of the position “Come As You Are” and give me your life. I will conform you to the likeness of Christ daily as you surrender your life to me. I think if you were to sit down with Stan Mitchell he would simply say: “If there is hope for me, there is hope for anyone.” People who give their heart and soul to God can not continue to live in sin, thus there is hope for homosexuals. I doubt Jesus would turn away anyone who truly wanted to follow him. I would have to sit down with Stan one on one before I could rush to judgement because the Stan I know is following a Holy God each and every day. There is more to the story and I can’t draw any definitive conclusions at this point.

    • Gary

      Mitchell is not a Christian.

    • Gary

      Mitchell is not a Christian.

    • Recondaddy

      “People who give their heart and soul to God can not continue to live in sin, thus there is hope for homosexuals.”

      I have no general disagreement with that, but this is a far cry from what Mitchell is doing. He is not requiring them to repent of their sin — he’s ENCOURAGING them to continue. Not only is he going to extend full membership to those actively engaged in open rebellion against God, he’s going to “consecrate” their sin by performing homosexual weddings at the church.

      That doesn’t sound like someone who says, “come as you are and let God change your heart.” That’s someone who is saying, “come as you are and be comfortable staying that way — we’ll even help you stay that way.”

      Read 1 Corinthians 5, and you’ll see how church leadership is to handle open sin in the body. The problem is, cowardly hirelings like Mitchell don’t have the stones that the Apostle Paul had.

      BTW, would you still feel this way if the sin was adultery? Not only will we extend full membership to people who are openly cheating on their spouses, we will provide private rooms for them to engage in their sin, privately.

  • http://www.insectman.us insectman

    He is a false shepherd. See http://www.insectman.us/misc/panty-waist-pastors.htm. I pity America without
    pastors with the power of those who have preceded them. See them at http://www.insectman.us/testimony/text-book-war.htm.

  • wandakate

    THERE ARE TWO OR THREE COMMENTS HERE THAT I HAVE JUST MADE AND THEY ARE NOT BEING ACCEPTED…IT SAYS TO CHECK MY INTERNET CONNECTIONS AND THEY ARE FINE, EVERYTHING IS FINE EXCEPT THE FACT THAT YOU ARE NOT SUBMITTING THEM INTO THE COMMENTS…

    • BarkingDawg

      DON’T SHOUT.

  • wandakate

    Sorry, I don’t think I ever realized it was on all caps. I wasn’t actually shouting either, just frustrated that I kept hitting post as Wandakate and it wouldn’t go. It was grey letters and not black like the rest of them that were posted. I wanted to know what was going on…NO harm done, peace…

  • Angela

    He is either being motivated by filthy lucre or by blackmail…

  • Matthew

    2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

    1We ask you, brothers, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling with him,2 not to be shaken out of your minds suddenly, or to be alarmed either by a “spirit,” or by an oral statement, or by a letter allegedly from us to the effect that the day of the Lord is at hand.3Let no one deceive you in any way. For unless the apostasy comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one doomed to perdition,4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god and object of worship, so as to seat himself in the temple of God, claiming that he is a god—5 do you not recall that while I was still with you I told you these things?6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his time.7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. But the one who restrains is to do so only for the present, until he is removed from the scene.8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord [Jesus] will kill with the breath of his mouth and render powerless by the manifestation of his coming,9the one whose coming springs from the power of Satan in every mighty deed and in signs and wonders that lie,10 and in every wicked deceit for those who are perishing because they have not accepted the love of truth so that they may be saved.11 Therefore, God is sending them a deceiving power so that they may believe the lie,12 that all who have not believed the truth but have approved wrongdoing may be condemned.

  • alnga

    There are false teachers everywhere. Be not shocked when you find them, but turn from them and find harbor where God is truly at work with His Gospel.. Bible study home groups can easily expand into First Century styled churches with God’s Word being taught. Look for a church that is a Jesus following, not a man following organization. If the pastor gets more credit than Jesus keep looking..

  • Erin van Drimmelen

    The only thing “apostate” about this wonderful preacher is that he speaks the truth, with compassion. Unlike so many of you who have written in the comments section. There is no understanding or compassion in you.

    • James Grimes

      You have no clue.

  • UnreconstructedRebel

    It is a shame that we lost the Inquisition and the practice of burning
    heretics at the stake after the Enlightenment. Its sounds like today’s
    church could benefit from both. It is bad enough to hear degenerate
    perverts constantly carping for us to normalize their deviant behavior,
    but when so called evangelicals capitulate to this and make exculpatory
    statements on their behalf, then it’s become clear that God has
    abandoned America to judgement.

    • Walter Thomas Beck III

      Right, because torturing and executing people who don’t agree with you is the loving thing to do.

      • UnreconstructedRebel

        Not because they disagree with me, but because they are false teachers who betray their ministerial trust and lead their flocks into perdition. I Ki 18:22 And Elijah said unto
        them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they
        took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew
        them there.

        • Better AndBetter

          Wow… You sound like your Muslim cousins more than most of your harmful ilk.

          • Gary

            Only those who don’t understand religion would ever compare Christians with muslims.

          • pax2u

            from Gary who thinks he is the “true” Christian

            pax2u Gary • an hour ago

            so you would be willing to execute homosexuals?

            Gary pax2u • an hour ago

            Yes.

          • UnreconstructedRebel

            I’m with Gary

          • pax2u

            I understand, Gary supports anti Catholics, anti Black, and Jewish fascist, the klan has their allies

          • Gary

            The only thing you said that was true in that post is that I am anti-Catholic. Everything else you said is a lie, and you cannot prove otherwise.

          • pax2u

            Gary I believe that you are a Christian, is that a lie??

            I forgive you your hatred
            I pity you for your anger
            I pray to my Christian God Jesus Christ for your eternal soul, amen

          • Gary

            What about YOUR hatred and anger? And your lies? You lied about my being anti-black, anti-Jewish, a fascist, and being linked to the KKK. Do your lies not bother you at all?

          • pax2u

            if you support the Fascist General Butler , then you are a fascist

          • Gary

            Smedley Butler was not a fascist. I asked you to prove he was, but you could not do it. There is no proof to back up your opinions.

          • UnreconstructedRebel

            If you lack sufficient knowledge and discernment to distinguish between the Bible and the Koran, just what is it that qualifies you to comment on the topic?

      • truthinaction

        Thomas, when you gonna repent? I’ma gonna have to have a lil talk with Pastor Steve about you! The Lord bless you young man, get right.

  • jennylynn

    Ephesians 4:14
    as a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

  • John Mark IB

    ha ha yeah that’s rich divine wind ummm hey check this out hopefully will make you laugh as well but, ok here’s my 2 cents worth of hot air ha ha no pun intended, 🙂 well folks someone in the false church cut the cheese and he got satans fart wind stuck in hi nose and says gee this is fresh wind charismatic doctrine of the emergent contemplative fresh wind fire church of the end times ha ha really?? and he’s blasphemously called it divine wind? so sad and indicative of the end times the way the world goes so goes the so called church etc., and yeah ok, kind of like in the garden it always goes back to Genesis Hath GOD said?? or did He say what He meant and mean what He said?? well let’s just stand on His Truth and His Words here not some unholy new divine foolishness so called new doctrines of demons is what it is!! and to those who would accuse us of hatred, to justify your sins, well there’s no true hatred at all on the part of us believers who genuinely love our fallen and lost as we ourselves once were human beings, only true compassion and care and concern, friend, but here’s hope folks and it’s not in accepting the sins but showing them the love of Christ!! amen please pass this onto your unsaved homosexual lesbian and so called transgendered friends you love and want to give the gospel to, here’s hope share it with love!! may GOD bless you all with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen,

    http://faithsaves.net/truth-for-gay-friends/

    http://faithsaves.net/

    http://pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36

    http://kentbrandnburg.blogspot.com

    http://discoverthebible.org

    http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/

  • John Mark IB

    likie this is your brain on drugs anyquestions? this is the false contemporary churches on false modern contemporary doctrines any questions?? doesn’t say much either about lack of discernment of the supers stars status either?? wow, can anyone say what you talkin bout willis?? end times apostate churches galore and of course gone contemporary got the purpose driven rock n roll equipment in place of the old choir can’t have that old fashioned stuffy churchy stuff now can we??

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    It wasn’t “divine wind” but the voice of Satan, that Mitchell accepted such abhorrent sin which God has condemned forever.

    God’s love is holy. If Mitchell truly loved gays, he would have preached them the life-saving repentance instead of doing this.

  • Jeff Pearce Sr.

    He’s raising not God’s Kingdom but monies for his own. Sadly, same as these “starlet’s” such as Carrie. Too bad. Is she caught up in her own need for acceptance from a worldly point of view? Afraid to see diminishing funds in her coffers for taking a stand? Likely. John: 15:18 comes to mind. “If the world hates you, it’s because they hated me first”. Wake up Carrie. Let’s get some hate flowing in your direction. Two ways to identify a person. #1: “Who likes you?” #2: “Who doesn’t?”

  • Thomas J.Stratford

    Remember Homosexuals tend to earn higher incomes than heterosexuals on average. And with the “Mega” churches, wealth building is why they exist. Here where I live, the local mega-church wannabe, has about 6 pastors. I did some research on their background, and all have no ecumenical degrees, but have come from the world of wealth building, with backgrounds in Bane Capital, Clear channel, and Merrill Lynch. Also since the church is “non denomination” there is no national authority to oversee their practices.

  • Javier Ruiz-Leon

    “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears” 2 Timothy 4:3

  • Javier Ruiz-Leon

    “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind” 1 Corinthians 6:9

  • DaCoachK

    Fake pastor at a fake church. If homos find it difficult to live a Godly life, tough. I don’t care if it hurts their feelings. Live up to the standards because they won’t be lowered for your behavior–even though you people think you are the most special–or is that “fabulous?”–people in the world.

  • anon

    “I
    am not sure I am right, but I am sure I sense the presence of God, and I
    know I’m doing my best,” he said. “And I believe before God almighty to
    this we have been called, and here we stand.” – See more at:
    http://christiannews.net/2015/01/30/megachurch-leader-claims-divine-wind-moved-him-to-fully-accept-members-practicing-homosexuality/#sthash.VS9DzZuR.dpuf

  • Momx8

    That BIG check from Miss Underwood was most likely his main motivation.

  • Edward Walsh

    This about sums it up .1 John 3:2 “Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”………..”We shall be like him”… Sorry the truth hurts . God is not a homosexual………..The deceiver would have you think this ….. Only in Christ we know what is pure ……..

  • truthinaction

    Devine wind? Sounds like more hot air inspired him from his inability to keep his sphincter constrained….I wonder what led to that condition?

  • Cheryl Forrey

    Carrie Underwood, you are right, we are not to judge but we are to uphold God’s laws & commands.

    • the Colosseum is full

      amd to judge righteous judgment which is mercy and truth

  • Craig Daliessio

    People shocked by this are those who have been ignoring Stan for years. he is a fraud. Period. To say “I’m not sure I’m right but I’m sure I heard from God…” REALLY? God contradicts himself?? That millstone is waiting for you pal

  • pretap

    That’s why you MUST KNOW the Word for yourself, and CONSTANTLY PRAY for Biblical discernment. The book of Revelation is being fulfilled at a” rapid pace”, and the’ wolves’ are scattering the flocks. OPEN UP YOUR BIBLES, ASK THE HOLY SPIRIT FOR DISCERNMENT, UNDERSTANDING, AND CLARITY, and if you’re Pastors aren’t following the Lord, then move on to those who are. Come Quickly Lord Jesus!

  • KEB

    1000 to 482, Sounds like Carrie and her husband along with the homosexuals in Nashville will have their own private congregation by next year. Hope they have invested in lighting rods for the roof of the church.

  • gregkliebigsr

    ? WHAT DIVINE WORD? FROM WHAT BIBLE ?
    My precious ones , THE GOD WHO MADE YOU IS VERY SERIOUS ABOUT SIN! SIN DESTROYS AND BRINGS DEATH! SO, YOU SEE , I TOO AM VERY SERIOUS ABOUT WHAT YESHUA(JESUS) SAYS ABOUT SIN!

    SO, AGAIN REPENT OF YOUR SIN AND BE FORGIVEN AND BE WASHED IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS! YOUR UNBELIEF IS SIN! YOUR ABORTION IS SIN! YOUR HOMOSEXUALITY IS SIN! YOUR REBELLION IS SIN!

    Mark 7: 20. And JESUS said, “That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 21. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22.Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23.All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
    Revelation 21: 8. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS , shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    Mark 9: 47: JESUS said,” And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into HELL FIRE: 48. Where their worm DIETH NOT, and the fire is not quenched.

    REPENT! REPENT! REPENT!
    ——— NOW, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE: THE CREATOR GOD OR THE CREATED REBELLIOUS HUMAN ???

    • Ben Arrington

      Words like these have driven gays teenagers to commit suicide. It seems as though insensitivity is a sin that brings destruction and death.

  • gregkliebigsr

    THIS IS THE COMMISSION THAT OUR CREATOR GOD (YAHWEH) HAS PUT ON ME TO DO, TO WARN HUMANITY !! THIS IS NOT MY PERSONAL OPINION !

    “Thou shalt NOT lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination!” says the LORD GOD.

    LEVITICUS18: 22. SO, LET ME MAKE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR , HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION!!!

    The sin of homosexuality is a forgivable sin, but a person must confess and repent of their sin to the LORD JESUS; I John 1:8-9

    REPENT OF YOUR HOMOSEXUALITY! FOR THE BLOOD OF YESHUA (JESUS) WILL DELIVER YOU OUT OF ALL YOUR SIN!

    —————-

    HOMOSEXUALTY ROBS GOD OF NEW HUMANS TO LOVE AND FELLOWSHIP WITH AND DWELL IN! THAT, IS WHY YAHWEH (GOD) HATES HOMOSEXUALTY!

    IT IS A demon spirit from satan and he does not want more CHRISTIANS BORN FOR GOD TO INHABIT!

    —————-

    “Thou shalt NOT lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination!” says the LORD GOD.

    LEVITICUS18: 22. SO, LET ME MAKE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR , HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION!!!

    The sin of homosexuality is a forgivable sin, but a person must confess and repent of their sin to the LORD JESUS; I John 1:8-9

    REPENT OF YOUR HOMOSEXUALITY! FOR THE BLOOD OF YESHUA (JESUS) WILL DELIVER YOU OUT OF ALL YOUR SIN!

    —————-

    HOMOSEXUALTY ROBS GOD OF NEW HUMANS TO LOVE AND FELLOWSHIP WITH AND DWELL IN! THAT, IS WHY YAHWEH (GOD) HATES HOMOSEXUALTY!

    IT IS A demon spirit from satan and he does not want more CHRISTIANS BORN FOR GOD TO INHABIT!

    —————-

    Deuteronomy 23:17. There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a Sodomite of the sons of Israel.

    18. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a DOG , into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the Lord thy God.

    NOW, the term dog here means male prostitute: AND , YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE WHY GOD WOULD CALL THEM DOGS!!!

    NOW, LET US SEE WHAT THE LORD JESUS SAID ON THE SUBJECT:

    Revelation 22: 15. For without are DOGS, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    NOW, SO AS NOT TO LEAVE OUT :

    ROMANS CHAPTER 1: 16 – 32

    WELL JUST READ IT FOR YOURSELF!!!

    ROMANS CHAPTER 1: 16 – 32

    WELL JUST READ IT FOR YOURSELF!!!

    Deuteronomy 23:17. There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a Sodomite of the sons of Israel.

    18. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a DOG , into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the Lord thy God.

    NOW, the term dog here means male prostitute: AND , YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE WHY GOD WOULD CALL THEM DOGS!!!

    NOW, LET US SEE WHAT THE LORD JESUS SAID ON THE SUBJECT:

    Revelation 22: 15. For without are DOGS, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    NOW, SO AS NOT TO LEAVE OUT :

    ROMANS CHAPTER 1: 16 – 32

    WELL JUST READ IT FOR YOURSELF!!!

    ROMANS CHAPTER 1: 16 – 32

    WELL JUST READ IT FOR YOURSELF!!!

    I am a servant of the MOST HIGH GOD and YAHWEH IS HIS NAME , THESE ARE HIS WORDS, PLEASE , DO NOT ARGUE WITH ME, TALK TO HIM ABOUT THIS !!

  • Jeffrey Aalvik

    Ephesians 4:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
    14 that we should no longer be children, Tossed To and Fro and Carried about with Every – – – > {{{ WIND of DOCTRINE }}}, by the Trickery of men, in the Cunning Craftiness of Deceitful Plotting,

  • Gary Metzger

    My problem with people like him is simple. When you adopt a position that couldn’t be more opposite to the God-ordained mandate for marriage and procreation, why call yourself a minister of the Gospel? Why call yourself a church? Men like him obviously no longer regard the authority of Scripture as final; they should just admit they regard Scripture as an archaic book and that God’s will for morality and marriage can no longer be trusted. One day He will face the Judgment. It would be interesting to hear his explanation to God why he no longer had to believe a word He said. 🙁

  • rdrift1879

    It will be interesting to observe other doctrinal and moral deviations come in the years ahead at GracePointe now that the born again believers have been driven off.

  • Imaybewrongbutimmostlyright

    Secondly, I think I know what the “divine wind” that the “Pastor” was referring to, is! I say that he who smelt it, dealt it! The aroma around that “church” is in desperate need of a fresh, spritz, of Febreeze! If his doctrinal position, of which HE has struggled with, (a little too much information?), can be changed by a poof, or a whiff, of whatever wafts about the dank, concrete-block-walls, of the “Megachurch”, then I’m not sure if his qualifications for speaking for Jesus, really passes the smell test! I say, get your nose out of other people’s posteriors, and the wind will tell a different story! Climb up on the roof of said “Megachurch”, and clear out of your nasal passages, the repulsive, odors, of thine own flatulence, and breathe anew, the clear, clean, wind, of repentance!
    But stay away from the edge of the roof, or afore mentioned, “wind”, may knock humpty dumpty, off to land quite harshly, on his katoukis!

    In other words, your “revelation” of “divine wind”, was merely someone in your congregation who passed gas! God said he has made us the “head” and NOT the “tail”, but you, oh homosexual-act-loving-heretic, can’t be moved AWAY from the tail! That’s where your “divine-wind” cometh from, hence! Thank you for allowing me to laugh, most heartily!

  • James Clarkston

    Divine wind???

    Nah, tat was just satan blowing a little something up his skirt… apparently he liked it!

  • bondservant1

    “Inclusion” is what got Israel in trouble… accepting other gods and beliefs as part of their worship. Loving one’s neighbor isn’t the same thing as accepting their practices. If the church is called to be inclusive, when do those who practice something like divination get accepted? (Oh… that’s right. The church has already done this… yoga, reading Harry Potter, etc).

  • Ben S.

    False Prophets Condemned

    Ezekiel 13

    1The word of the LORD came to me: 2“Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel, who are prophesying, and say to those who prophesy from their own hearts: ‘Hear the word of the LORD!’ 3Thus says the Lord GOD, Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing! 4Your prophets have been like jackals among ruins, O Israel. 5You have not gone up into the breaches, or built up a wall for the house of Israel, that it might stand in battle in the day of the LORD. 6They have seen false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘Declares the LORD,’ when the LORD has not sent them, and yet they expect him to fulfill their word. 7Have you not seen a false vision and uttered a lying divination, whenever you have said, ‘Declares the LORD,’ although I have not spoken?”

    8Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: “Because you have uttered falsehood and seen lying visions, therefore behold, I am against you, declares the Lord GOD.9My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and who give lying divinations. They shall not be in the council of my people, nor be enrolled in the register of the house of Israel, nor shall they enter the land of Israel. And you shall know that I am the Lord GOD

  • http://aaglaas.blogspot.com/ aaglaas

    For Christians who reject gays: Bible verses of love, hospitality, and the love story of two martyrs..

    Matthew 5:43-48

    You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you only love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

    Romans 13:9

    For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

    James 2:14-17

    What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

    1 Corinthians 13:1-2

    If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not show love to others, I am merely a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not show love to others, I am nothing.…

    1 Peter 4:8-9

    Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins. Show hospitality to one another without grumbling.

    Hebrews 13:1-2

    Let brotherly love continue. Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

    1 John 4:19-21

    We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

    Matthew 25:40

    And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

    Romans 15:7

    Therefore welcome one another as Christ has welcomed you, for the glory of God.

    Matthew 25:35

    For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.

    Leviticus 19:33-34

    When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

    Exodus 23:9

    You shall not oppress a sojourner. You know the heart of a sojourner, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.

    Exodus 22:21

    You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.

    Romans 12:13

    Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.

    Leviticus 25:35

    If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you.

    Deuteronomy 10:19

    Love the sojourner, therefore, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.

    Deuteronomy 10:18

    He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing.

    Philippians 2:3-4

    Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

    1 John 4:11

    Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

    1 Corinthians 13:13

    So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

    Proverbs 10:12

    Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.

    John 3:16

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    1 John 4:18

    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.

    Mark 12:28-31

    And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

    1 John 4:7-8

    Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

    Ruth 1:16-17

    But Ruth said, (to Naomi) “Do not urge me to leave you or turn back from following you; for where you go, I will go, and where you lodge, I will lodge. Your people shall be my people, and your God, my God. “Where you die, I will die, and there I will be buried. Thus may the LORD do to me, and worse, if anything but death parts you and me.”

    2 Samuel 1:26

    I am heartbroken over you, my brother Jonathan. You were my great delight. Your love was more wonderful to me than the love of women.

    The story of the martyrs Sergius and Bacchus. (died c. 303, Resafe, Syria; feast day October 7), among the earliest and most celebrated Christian martyrs,originally commemorated in the Eastern and Western churches:

    The saints’ story is told in the Greek text known as The Passion of Sergius and Bacchus.

    Sergius and Bacchus were Roman citizens and high-ranking officers of the Roman Army, but their covert Christianity was discovered when they attempted to avoid accompanying a Roman official into a pagan temple with the rest of his bodyguard. After they persisted in refusing to sacrifice to Jupiter in Galerius’ company, they were publicly humiliated by being chained, dressed in female attire and paraded around town. Galerius then sent them to Barbalissos in Mesopotamia to be tried by Antiochus, the military commander there and an old friend of Sergius. Antiochus could not convince them to give up their faith, however, and Bacchus was beaten to death.

    The next day Bacchus’ spirit appeared to Sergius and encouraged him to remain strong so they could be together forever.

    Over the next days, Sergius was also brutally tortured and finally executed at Resafa (known in Roman times as Sergiopolis), where his death was marked by miraculous happenings.

    Sergius and Bacchus were very popular throughout Late Antiquity, and churches in their honor were built in several cities, including Constantinople and Rome. The love between the two is strongly emphasized in their hagiographies and traditions, making them one of the most famous examples of paired saints.

    Considerable posthumous homage has been paid the martyrs. In 431 Alexander, metropolitan of Hierapolis, restored the church over Sergius’ grave, and shortly afterward Risafe became a bishopric. The Byzantine emperor Justinian I changed the name of Risafe to Sergiopolis, making it an archdiocese, and in honour of Sergius he had churches built at Constantinople (now Istanbul) and at Acre in Palestine.

    The church at Resafe became famous in the East as a major pilgrimage site. Sergius and Bacchus were designated protectors of the Byzantine army, and numerous Eastern sanctuaries and churches were subsequently dedicated to them. Their veneration is old, and a mass ascribed to Pope St. Gelasius I is assigned to them. Christian desert nomads regard Sergius as their patron saint.

    (Translated from the Greek “Passio antiquior SS. Sergii et Bacchi Graece nunc primum edita,” AB 14, 373-395. This text is the Greek original of the Latin passion beginning “Imperante Maximiano tyranne, multus error hominum genus possederat,” printed in the Acta sanctorum, October 7, 865-79, and is more ancient than the more common account of “Metaphrastes.”)

    Meanwhile the blessed Serge, deeply depressed and heartsick over the loss of Bacchus, wept and cried out,

    “No longer, brother and fellow soldier, will we chant together, ‘Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!’ You have been unyoked from me and gone up to heaven,leaving me alone on earth, bereft [literally, “made single”], without comfort.”

    After he uttered these things, the same night the blessed Bacchus suddenly appeared to him with a face as radiant as an angel’s, wearing an officer’s uniform, and spoke to him.

    “Why do you grieve and mourn, brother? If I have been taken from you in body, I am still with you in the bond of union, chanting and reciting, ‘I will run the way of your commandments, which have enlarged my heart.’ Hurry then, yourself, brother, through beautiful and perfect confession to pursue and obtain me, when finishing the course, For the crown of justice for me is being with you.”

    At daybreak when he rose he related to those who were with him how he had seen the blessed Bacchus in the night and in what sort of garb.

    • chatnboy

      Real Christians DO NOT REJECT GAYS!!!just because we quote God’s Word about homosexuality doesn’t mean we reject gays!we hate the sin they are in…but we love that person who is sinning! So enough with this message of we judging…. Because they shall know the truth and the truth will set them free!

  • Mary Taylor

    It seems like most want to argue on here. Just wait until Judgment Day and all your questions will be answered as you look into the eyes of the One who saved you by Grace.

  • CJ

    this is what happens when you get your inspiration from Brian McLaren, Glee, Ellen Degeneres and Oprah, to name a few…His ‘divine wind’ did not come from Scripture or a true Biblical Divine revelation…

  • CJ

    1 Corinthians 5 “It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, impurity of a sort that is condemned and does not occur even among the heathen; for a man has [his own] father’s wife.2 And you are proud and arrogant! And you ought rather to mourn (bow in sorrow and in shame) until the person who has done this [shameful] thing is removed from your fellowship and your midst!3 As for my attitude, though I am absent [from you] in body, I am present in spirit, and I have already decided and passed judgment, as if actually present,4 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, on the man who has committed such a deed. When you and my own spirit are met together with the power of our Lord Jesus,5 You are to deliver this man over to Satan [a]for physical discipline [to destroy carnal lusts which prompted him to incest], that [his] spirit may [yet] be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.6 [About the condition of your church] your boasting is not good [indeed, it is most unseemly and entirely out of place]. Do you not know that [just] a little leaven will ferment the whole lump [of dough]?7 Purge (clean out) the old leaven that you may be fresh (new) dough, still uncontaminated [as you are], for Christ, our Passover [Lamb], has been sacrificed.8 Therefore, let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with leaven of viceand malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened [bread] of purity (nobility, honor) and sincerity and [unadulterated] truth.
    9 I wrote you in my [previous] letter not to associate [closely and habitually] with unchaste (impure) people—
    10 Not [meaning of course that you must] altogether shun the immoral people of this world, or the greedy graspers and cheats and thieves or idolaters, since otherwise you would need to get out of the world and human society altogether!
    11 But now I write to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of [Christian] brother if he is known to be guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater [whose soul is devoted to any object that usurps the place of God], or is a person with a foul tongue [railing, abusing, reviling, slandering], or is a drunkard or a swindler or a robber. [No] you must not so much as eat with such a person.
    12 What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? Is it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary judgment [passing censuring sentence on them as the facts require]?
    13 God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside. Drive out that wicked one from among you [expel him from your church].”

    Footnotes:

  • recarterjr007

    Yep, he’s hearing from a spirit, all right. Get out, my brothers and sisters, find a Bible-believing church. Do not sit under that false teacher for one more second.

    • Ben Arrington

      What would happen to those people if they stay in that church? Would they become more hateful? Would they go to hell for all eternity?

  • rushmoon

    God will NEVER EVER EVER EVER go against his word.. Homosexuality IS sin and those who practices it WILL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God…Don’t like it? Get mad at God. It IS his word… Pray and God WILL bring you out of that lifestyle…

    • Ben Arrington

      But what about those who have prayed to change but couldn’t? What about those who have gone to support groups, reparative ministries, and pastors for help? What about those who have come to believe that they were disgusting because their sexuality was sinful and it caused them to commit suicide?

  • Ben Arrington

    You all realize that when we talk about LGBT people, we’re talking about people, right? Like everyone else, they’re multidimensional, they have stories, struggles, and ideas that go far beyond the one thing many Christians see them as: an issue.

    I’m a Bible-believing Christian, but it’s sickening how much the Church has persecuted LGBT people. Why do we believe that standing up for the gospel means we discriminate against people? Why do we hold so harshly to seemingly arbitrary rules in the Bible to the point that it makes us incapable of loving, listening, and understanding people?

    Considering the historical, literary, and linguistic context, the verses that address homosexuality aren’t as clear as we think they are. Why do we cling to one interpretation of those ambiguous verses and ignore clear passages that remind us that if we don’t love the marginalized, visit criminals, feed the poor, give liberally we will suffer eternally (Matthew 25)? I guess if Christians can convince everyone else that they’re the ones who are marginalized, then they’ll be off the hook from the responsibility to love our neighbor that Christ wants to empower us to do.

    The Church holding to this one issue has caused more division and destruction than homosexuality probably has in recent history.

  • http://gayambassador.com/ Anthony Venn-Brown

    The journey to LGBT inclusion doesn’t need to be this rocky http://lgbttraining.blogspot.com.au/p/church-consultancy.html

  • Diana

    LOL If it was a “divine wind,” it was probably trying to blow him off the stage.

  • wandakate

    My comment to RW GOODWIN did not post as it said to check the internet connection, however the connection is fine but it won’t post so I’m not sure why…

  • tamela beckman

    wake up America!!!!!! It is one minute to midnight….the gospel has been diluted, watered down, turned inside out as we fail to preach the true love of the gospel….Christ came to save sinners and SET THEM FREE!!!!!! That is LOVE!! Instead we embrace all the sins of humanity and there is no freedom, power or TRUTH!! Another church becomes apostate because the thoughts of the day are all things gay and now transgendered!! When the Son of man returns will He find faith on the earth? I’d say a remnant. Here is what is coming….Judgment. This summer the Supreme Court will decide if gay marriage is constitutional…you know the answer…..it’s gonna be coast to coast acceptance…and then we will have crossed the line that even in the days of Noah…they were not giving in gay marriage to each other. So the words HOLY MATRIMONY will mean nothing in this country. There will be nothing HOLY about gay marriage. God said be fruitful and multiply and of course any gay union can not produced children….so where are we as a nation when we LEGALIZE GAY MARRIAGE even as we KEEP TRYING to overturn abortion. I say again…..it is one minute til midnight…..lawlessness has INCREASED…SIN HAS ABOUNDED and the church is apostate in many cases. God have mercy on our stiff-necked and rebellious nation!!!

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/kimberlyknight/ Kimberly

    Oh dear, you actually believe homosexuality is a sin. Bless your hearts.

    • TheBottomline4This

      Oh dear, you actually believe homosexuality isn’t a sin. Bless your heart.

  • Dan the Quaker

    Wow, what an incredibly hateful and vitriolic and pharisaical article. Not even a drop of grace. Not even a perfunctory attempt at journalistic fairness.

  • treebird

    What ever happened to love the sinner and not the sin? If you do that then you will not let sinners be in leadership. Homosexuality is not an accepted lifestyle in Christianity any more then adultery or lying. Yet it gets a free pass.

    • Christie D.

      Actually the Bible says something more like “love the sinner, hate your OWN sin.” Judge not. The Word of the Lord.

      • TheBottomline4This

        We can judge, just not hypocritically. The Word of the Lord.
        See gotquestions dot org/do-not-judge dot html

        • Christie D.

          As a sinner, all your judgements are hypocritical and put you in danger of judgement yourself. I don’t need a biased commentary to tell me what the Bible says….you will be judged by the same measure by which you judge others (the word of the lord)

        • Christie D.

          Interesting that my last reply was deleted when it was merely a bible quote. We can figure what the censor is like

  • Jack A. Roe

    If I’m ever in the area, I’d be proud to visit this church.

  • Josey

    He has failed God and those in that church who are truly serving Christ, he opened the door for demons to come in and have their way. I would run away from there as fast as I could if this were the place I fellowship at.

  • http://writer-for-hire.us Julie Anne, Writer for Hire

    The pastor got a “divine wind” alright — a wind of Satan.

    America, we need to repent or God (Yahveh) will allow Satan to destroy us all.

    We all need to do our part in the body of Christ…

    Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

    —–>> That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine<<—–

    by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

    But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

    But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. (‭Ephesians‬ ‭4‬:‭13-24‬ KJV).

  • Charley Larson

    Stan Mitchell, Rick Warren, Joel Osteen…..etc. etc. and so many other ‘pastors’ are simply turning from the truth and becoming apostate.

  • Jerod Hatch

    So a Divine wind moved this church to a position of ambivalence and confusion…

    ??

    I hear $$$$$$$$$$$$$$omeone very deceiving.

  • TC

    God will remove from the midst of His people those who represent themselves as teachers and prophets, who speak falsely and lead the people astray. In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. So be it, that the people of God again fear the Lord.

  • KRISTEN SMITH

    It is unfortunate that humans spend so much effort to merely have sex with who they want- regardless of the impact it will have on society as a whole :/ God is always correct in standard– and He has boundaries for our sex lives–and it does not include incest, animals or same sex individuals… anything outside of God’s boundaries create imprisonment and generates greed— self-serving greed. I love the liberty I find in Christ- “go and sin no more”… my hands are free to love others above myself, no more addictions to sin that orchestrate my actions to feed my fleshly lusts.

    • Found One

      Perhaps you have a false view of sin.

  • Theophilous

    “Because, conversely, my soul has been stretched to the point that if I
    do not say what I say today, I cannot be here any longer. I have felt
    this way for many, many years.”

    Then it is time for you to go. You have abandoned the belief that the bible is the inspired word of the living God. Was God mistaken, or was he lying when he said the following.

    Bible on Homosexuality

    Old Testament

    Genesis chapter 19

    Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with
    womankind: it [is] abomination.”

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth
    with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be
    put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.”

    Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no whore of the daughters
    of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.”

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy
    sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and
    in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed
    abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw [good].”

    Isaiah 3:9 “The shew of their countenance doth witness
    against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide [it] not. Woe unto
    their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

    1 Kings 14:24 “And there were also sodomites in the land:
    [and] they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD
    cast out before the children of Israel.”

    1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did [that which was] right in the
    eyes of the LORD, as [did] David his father. And he took away the sodomites out
    of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

    1 Kings 22:43 & 46 speaking of King Jehoshaphat, “And he
    walked in all the ways of Asa his father; he turned not aside from it, doing
    [that which was] right in the eyes of the LORD:… …And the remnant of the sodomites, which
    remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

    New Testament

    Romans 1:26-27 “For this cause God gave them up unto vile
    affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is
    against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the
    woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which
    is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which
    was meet.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ” Know ye not that the unrighteous
    shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor
    idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with
    mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor
    extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:9-10 “Knowing this, that the law is not made for
    a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for
    sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of
    mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with
    mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any
    other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

    Romans 1:32 “Who knowing the judgment of God, that they
    which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have
    pleasure in them that do them.”

    2 Timothy 3:3 Speaking of men in the last days, “Without
    natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce,
    despisers of those that are good,”

    Jude 1:7 “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about
    them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after
    strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal
    fire.”

    God has made it clear in his word what he thinks of homosexual acts. Every word in the bible is inspired, God breathed if you will. Did God change his mind? Can we expect a new revelation? A Gospel according to Stan?

    This pastor is a heretic. His preaching is false. And anyone that follows him does so at the risk of their immortal soul.

    Galatians 1:6-10 “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you
    than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.”

    2 Corinthians 11:3-4 “But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is
    in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.”

    • Found One

      Many of those were written by the Tony Perkins counterparts of their day. They are forgeries. Check each one at Wikipedia.

  • Sam Cheung

    ONe word – Heresy !

  • John Mark IB

    can you smell what the rock is cookin’ hahah just sayin’ hahaha here we go preachin pentecostal style ok charismatic!!
    haha ok folks you gotta please forgive me!!Amen? I just had a divine comical revelation, and I’m having holy laughter fits being slain in the spirit rolling and frothing at the mouth over this divine wind since It’s been divinely revealed to me what exactly divine wind is!!!! hahaha here it is…..it’s a comin’….. wait…….. I can feel it…. coming….. wait for it…… wait for it….. oh man was that divine wind supposed to be wet???? and now it’s all over my leg aww mannn !!! hahaha
    oooops the divine wind was on the night at this false church when they had mexican refried beans and three bean soup and bbq beans and van kamps!!! he got a whiff of the divine wind and as they all farted ooppss there it goes again the wet divine wind awww mannnn hahahaha rolling over frothing slain in the spirit!!!! yep you got it folks it was all that gas from all the members being in unison and all the divine wind came rushing out like a whirlwind it sure did and well this is what did it you see it’s all truth and well that’s the truth surely you believe me right ???? hahahha well he looks like he’s on some really good quality colorado gold or something like that too so who know?? haha oh but reallyhow sad!!!

    sorry I just couldn’t resist the urge oops there it goes again!!! catch a whiff of the divine wind wheweee!! land sakes alive!!!
    isn’t it really neat how clever they are to come up with whatever sounds cute and people will rush off and accept this new divine revelation oh me oh my!!! my word!!!! haha holy laughter slain in the spirit?? word faith gotta hand it to em they know how to sell the snake oil!!! sure does wonders you know?? so sad thay’ll all end up in a devils hell!!

    so seriously sad thought these last days false heretical ticklers of the masses ears ala joel boy osteen!! benny hinn mikey murdock todd koontce and the like really and the deluded charismatic and pentecostal snake charming masses scripture twisting and the like so sad we’re in way worse shape than I thought!!! very sad indeed!! any truth is truth?? so long as it’s not absolute truth!! Jesus said He is The Truth now this guy is redefining it like all the rest!! false lost blasphemers will go lost into the devils hell unless they repent get saved and born again!!! pray for them all time is truly short and the lack of The Words of GOD will starve this once great nation now gone under unless we get a miracle and GOD’S not done with us yet and or coming soon to rapture His own !!

    http:// faith saves. net

    http:// pillarandground. org/home/page_id=36

    http:// kentbrandenburg. blogspot. com

    www. nowtheendbegins. com

    www. lighthousetrailsresearch. com/blog/

    www. prophecyupdate. com/newsletter-archives. html

    www. mindrenewers. com

    wait can you smell that divine wind whooooo weeeeee boyyyy man !!!! haha
    wonder if creflo needs more dollar s for his airplane???

    • Found One

      Do you deny that religion poisons the mind?

  • David Paul

    Just look at the junk in the background – all of the tools of rock music. That tells a lot about the path that led to this most recent announcement.

    • Found One

      “History of Music in the bible Era”, Wikipedia

  • PJ1193

    So what does the Church do about polygamy and polyandry. What happens when NAMBLA brings it beliefs into the church. So much evil will follow this insanity on so many levels

    • Found One

      Your dreams of the future are not the issue,

  • Mary Kilbride

    That wasn’t God, that was Satan because God doesn’t change His mind. He would have to completely re-write His Word. Sad. You think that it is wrong to speak the truth of what the Bible says as rude and offensive…I wonder if you have ever really let God speak to you through His Word.

    • Found One

      He regretted having flooded the earth in the mythic story.

  • jenkins_laurence

    lol

  • billinghamboy

    Apostate indeed.There are all kinds of “wind”and this one is not the Divine kind.

  • TheBottomline4This

    Those who are baby Christians should flee this group. I would hope mature Christians wouldn’t even entertain going there. As for Carrie, not too surprised. Most Hollywood “Christians” compromise enough as is. Some of whom are just blindly following the crowd or are not really saved in the first place.

  • Found One

    And christianity spins off some more denominations, undoubtedly they will print their god’s word as they see it, just as all the others have done. God’s word is always changing. It is good that some christians can change with it.

  • Found One

    If only ALL christians would read the signs their god sends via our judges! The bible tells you that god himself sent the judges. Why do you ignore them?

  • Found One

    These pastors are like Daniel. Thy can read the “In god We Trust” on the wall.

  • Found One

    Any faith can be purchased. Sometimes we just need to wait until their profit sees the benefit of the proper prophet.

  • Dan Jones

    The apostasy and falling away we were warned of continues to grow at a rampant pace…

    Always be a light that is shininginthedark.c…

  • Amos Moses

    Divine wind ….. or passing gas ……….

  • Tommy Ferrell

    First of all, according to the #s listed, this was never a mega church which is quantified by 2,000 plus in weekly attendance