NASCAR Legend Declares to Obama, Dalai Lama at Prayer Breakfast: Without Christ, You Will Go to Hell

WaltripWASHINGTON — During Thursday’s National Prayer Breakfast in Washington, NASCAR great Darrell Waltrip shared his Christian testimony with the thousands gathered, including Barack and Michelle Obama and the Dalai Lama, stating that he thought he was once a pretty good person, but “good people” go to Hell without Christ.

Waltrip, a NASCAR Hall of Fame recipient with 84 wins, spoke about the importance of coming to Christ and becoming a new creature before approximately 4,000 attendees, which hailed from 170 countries worldwide. He spent most of his talk sharing his story of how God changed his life from being a man that struggled with pride and alcoholism, to a person who now is humble and lives for Christ and not himself.

“This is what people said about me: They said I was brash, ruthless, pushy, cocky, conceited, aloof, boastful, arrogant and just downright annoying,” Waltrip said, speaking of his life over 30 years ago. “And I’ve got to tell you, those were people that liked me, so you can imagine what people that didn’t like me had to say about me.”

He stated that his wife Stevie tried to get him to go to church, but he would tell her that he didn’t have the time.

But a serious crash during the 1983 Daytona 500 became the turning point for Waltrip as he realized that he could have died that day—without Christ.

“When I finally came to or woke up, I realized that that wreck had knocked me unconscious,” he explained. “It scared the Hell out of me, and I mean that literally. I realized that I could have been killed that day. What if I’d lost my life right there that day at Daytona? What would I have done? Would I have gone to Heaven, or would have I gone to Hell?”

“I thought I was a pretty good guy, but folks, let me tell you something. Good guys go to Hell,” he continued. “If you don’t know Jesus as your lord and savior, if you don’t have a relationship [with Him], if He’s not the master of your life, if you’ve never gotten on your knees and asked Him to forgive you of your sins, [and] you’re just a pretty good guy or a pretty good gal, you’re going to go to Hell. Think about that. I did.”

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After the incident, Waltrip began going to church, and the pastor, Cortez Cooper, began ministering to him on a personal level.

“I got down off my high horse [and] got down on my knees. And Dr. Cortez Cooper and Stevie and I prayed that the Lord would come into my life and forgive me of my sins, and be my lord and savior,” he recalled. “And that was the greatest day of my life. That changed everything.”

Waltrip told his wife that night as they drove home that he felt like a “new man” and that he had been born again.

“When the Lord comes into your life, you’re going to be different. You have to be different,” he declared to those gathered. “If He comes into your life and you’re not different, you better go back and try it again, because the Lord changes you.”

The NASCAR champion and regular commentator on SPEED told the thousands listening that while it is hard for him to look back at the way he used to be, he is thankful for how Christ has changed his life.

“The good news is, I’m not that way anymore,” Waltrip said, receiving applause. “[And like me], you’ve got to get off your high horse and get on your knees and ask for forgiveness. He’s waiting there for you.”


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  • Amin Ohappo

    Amen

  • Fundisi

    Sadly, neither the Dali Lama nor Obama or his wife will hear the truth in this message. I thank God’s for Waltrip finding Christ, I thank him for the courage to speak the truth; but for most of those gathered, for most reading his message, it will fall on spiritually deaf ears, we can pray a few will hear and find Christ because of his testimony.

    • Aislynn

      The President and his wife are both Christians. They have never claimed to be anything other than Christians. They have gone to church for decades and have raised their daughters to be Christians. Who are you to determine the sincerity of another mans personal relationship with God.

      You are the devil, a hateful sinner and a deceiver of mankind.

      Your hateful comments and unchristian viewpoints have probably driven dozens if not hundreds of people from the saving grace of the Lord whereas the Presidents quiet testimony and humanity have probably brought thousands into a closer relationship with Jesus.

      Someday you will come face to face with God and feel his eternal wrath.

      • BKSecrest

        All those thousands of babies he agrees on killing on a daily basis proves that he’s not a Christian and neither is his wife. This man agrees with late term abortion where they actually crush the babies skull and pull it’s body out in pieces. No follower of Christ would ever agree to such mass murder.

        • Jenji Morgan

          There is nothing on earth more disgusting than a Christian who doesn’t know their own bible. READ YOUR FUCKIN BOOK AND THEN TELL US ALL ABOUT HOW YOUR GOD GIVES A DAMN ABOUT BABIES. Disgusting.

          • mazzie54az

            no there is nothing more disgusting than a man of ignorance who doesn’t really know the Lord and yet criticizes him and the people who represent him

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            how is this for ignorance???
            your bogus book of VOODOO

          • James Grimes

            Disgusting? Look in the mirror.

          • bowie1

            He says it is a pretty serious offence to bring harm to any one of those little ones, and that it would be better to have stone around your neck and cast into the sea if than to harm these babies

          • Mister_YT

            You should be stoned to death.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            says who??? some white trash regressive religious ( see: superstition) scumbag lemming such as you??

          • Mister_YT

            You should be stood up against a wall and shot in the back of your head.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            white tra$h regressive republicans

        • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

          would this include “Christians ” who now —again—wish2 send OUR young troops to potentially DIE in ANOTHER middle eastern war>???
          Hmmmmm?

          • SheepToSlaughter

            Statist Democrats are just as much warmongers as those on the Right, if not more so. In fact, the Old Right was non-interventionist and opposed the many wars of Democrats in the past.

            Also, you are incredibly obnoxious. Why spend so much time ridiculing the beliefs of others? Your insecurity is troubling.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            here is one reason why——-
            fret not– I come armed with facts
            =================================
            I ridicule all religions: Im OK with “god”
            ,,,,I abhor religion
            ———-any questions???

          • James Grimes

            Proverbs 26 : 4. Don’t argue with the fool. He won’t be here much longer.

      • James Grimes

        You are delusional.

      • Tony

        Hahahaha. Brainwashed itdot. Our president is about as Christian as the Dalai Lama. He just goes to church because you have to be perceived as Christian to be the president of the largest Christian nation on the Earth. He is probably Atheist or Muslim at best.

      • DoodyDoo

        a true disciple of Christ would believe in the authority of scripture..Obama needs to be saved..he needs a geninue encounter with Jesus Christ…..he believes homosexual marriage is just as noble as God ordained man and wife marriage…there’s proof right there….

        • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

          proof????
          here is proof

      • DoodyDoo

        go judge yourself

      • Fundisi

        Let’s see, he was born a Muslim. He attended a Black Liberation Theology Church, which was quite racist and American hating. As President he has bowed to a Muslim leader, celebrates Muslim holidays in the White House, he has not only always defended abortion, he supported partial birth abortion wherein the doctor partially delivers a human being and stabs them in the back of the head to kill them. He ended the Defense of Marriage Act, opened the military to openly serving homosexuals and so-called transgendered people, he has been an open supporter of gay marriage, these latter things all against God’s Word and yet you call him a Christian, is that your form of Christianity as well?

        The rest of your false accusations are not worth my time.

        • Mister_YT

          The Kenyan Muslim communist socialist ni99er should be lynched!

          • Angela

            Wow, WWJD? Now let’s talk about your love walk…it’s Christians like you that make true Christians a laughing stock in this country! Oh I’m sorry I just assumed you are a Christian.

          • SheepToSlaughter

            It’s a troll with the explicit purpose of trying to make Christians look racist and violent. Sadly, most people fall for it.

          • James Grimes

            She is insignificant.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            speaking of falling for it,,,,,,,,,,,,

      • Gary

        Neither Mr. or Mrs. Obama are Christians. Anyone who thinks they are has no clue what a real Christian is.

      • hapy_thoughts

        Thank you for making observations based on facts. Thank you for not letting people like him bully you into hating others. Thank you for showing you can use both reason and the bible

      • Angela

        Aislynn,
        Sadly, Fundisi, BKSecrest, DoodyDoo, James, etc …will not hear the truth in this message. I thank God for Waltrip finding Christ, I thank him for the courage to speak the truth; but for most of those gathered here, for most reading his message, it will fall on spiritually deaf ears, we can pray a few will hear and find Christ because of his testimony. Hopefully the self-righteous will see the error in their shameless, judgmental ways and start working on their own sinful ways. I think it’s funny how Christians proclaim to be the earthly image of God, yet are filled with so much hatred for their fellow man.

        • James Grimes

          When did you become self-righteous? Your comment is meaningless.

          • Angela

            No it isn’t because you felt a need to respond so therefore it was not meaningless.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            BINGO!!!!

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            bible???? enjoy this
            ………and refute it!

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            this has meaning

      • mazzie54az

        they are not Christians any more than the devil is. the Bible says why do you call me Lord Lord and yet not do the things that I tell you to do depart from me I never knew you. The Bible is very clear that no one is to take innocent life that means no abortions which Obama and Michelle support. God said liars were not enter into the kingdom of heaven and Obama is a liar. The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination to him and Obama supports and condones homosexuality. You obviously don’t know the Scriptures very well maybe you should take a class or something to learn more about what it really teaches because what you’re saying is absolutely not true at all

        • handyfixer

          Christian or not the bible tells us we are not to judge any one. One scripture Mathew 7- 1_5 Judge not lest ye be judged
          and there are a number of other scriptures as well. You just might be shocked when you get to heaven just who is there and who is not there. The bible constrains us to pray for our leaders and He will deal with them whether here or when they meet Christ Himself.
          It is too easy to talk about a lot of people whether in leadership or not instead of asking people to get on their knees and call out to God to give them wisdom and more knowledge of Jesus Christ Himself. If more praying was done in our so called Christan countries we would see a lot less sin and problems in our countries.

          • SheepToSlaughter

            John 7:24

            1 Corinthians 6:1-5

            The verse you reference is regarding hypocrisy.

            I notice you mention “sin”. How dare you! The word and concept itself has such negative connations! How can sin exist if one is not to judge? How do you distinguish between sin and non-sin? Would that not involve some level of judgment between the two?

            If we are to “test all things”, does that not require judgment? If we are to distinguish between men of God and false prophets, does that not require judgment? If we are not to invite false doctrine into our home (2 John 1), forbidden from even encouraging them or wishing them well, does that not require judgment?

            I don’t know who or what you have been praying to, but if it’s the true God of the Bible, my hope is that you pray for His wisdom and discernment and that He spares you your obvious gullibility to the Father of Lies and taking verses out of context. Salvation is found only in Jesus Christ (John 14:6). To accept this as fact and absolute Truth requires judgment – and a rejection of any alternative. To disregard this is to condemn yourself.

          • handyfixer

            I do believe the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ and yes I believe we can judge sin but in saying that we have to be careful how we judge our people in the world. Many say so and so will never go to heaven and so and so will be there. I am saying do not judge your fellow man that is up to Christ Himself . As I say there will be people in heaven that you might say will or should never be there by their actions. There will be people and yes pastors who are leading their sheep in the wrong way that will not be there. Instead of judging them we are to pray for them.

          • James Grimes

            “Christian or not the bible tells us we are not to judge any one. One scripture Mathew 7- 1_5 Judge not lest ye be judged
            and there are a number of other scriptures as well.”
            Not true. We are to judge righteously. Matthew 7:1 is the most abused verse by those who DO NOT KNOW SCRIPTURE.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            here ya’ go!

        • Angela

          And yet while chastising another, quoting, and interpreting scriptures, you dear also may want to enroll in a class. God, from the moment he placed Adam and Eve in the garden has given free will to man. He still gives us free will today. And that is where some(you) just completely miss it. I know some of you lazy Christians would love to form a dictatorship around what is and is not allowed according to the bible, but sometimes it’s just not that simple sweetie.

        • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

          and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the VOODOO book also says this:

      • Carolyn Finley

        If Obama is a Christian, then he needs to be on his knees. God tells us to help the oppressed, the enslaved, the persecuted.

      • 2lassie3

        You will know them by their fruits. A man that thinks that it is okay to have a worldwide push for gay marraige, killing babies by the millions, and treating Israel and its leaders like dirt under his feet, I have my doubts, according to his fruits. God told Abraham: I will bless those who bless you and I will curse those who curse you.

    • https://www.facebook.com/Sigantium Xephyriel

      World peace must develop from inner peace. Peace is not just mere absence of violence. Peace is, I think, the manifestation of human compassion.

      • Fundisi

        Nonsense!

        • https://www.facebook.com/Sigantium Xephyriel

          1 Corinthians 4:5
          ‘Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.’

          • John_33

            Real peace can only come from Jesus Christ.

            “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” ~ John 14:27

            “but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;” ~ Ephesians 2:13-14

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            book of superstition written by followers,,,,,,,,,,,,

        • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

          enjoy this

    • 2lassie3

      His word will never return void. We need to pray that these people will come to Christ thru what they heard today.

      • Fundisi

        Yes, no disagreement from me.

    • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

      enjoy

    • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

      enjoy…

    • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

      please enjoy this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

      • Fundisi

        I don’t waste my time on lies!

        • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

          I totally agree,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, that’s why we all know that these ineptly written books of VOODOO are easy 2 spot LIES
          here (below) is the historical TRUTH,,,,,,,,so keep crying

  • James Grimes

    God works in the hearts of the people that he has chosen for eternal life. Lowly humans cannot come to God on their own unless He calls them. When I think about this, this is an extraordinary gift He has given us.

    • DoodyDoo

      God draws all people…..all people will have a chance to be saved.those that reject Christ are those that perish for eternity and when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”..John 12:32

      • Fundisi

        That passage referred to Calvary and drawing all men to Him does not mean they will be saved.

        • DoodyDoo

          no, but all people have the choice to recieve or reject Christ…

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            this Christ??

            (note– work upon thy spelling lest JE$U$ rejects YOU)

        • zunelander

          All people are already saved. (1 Corinthians 15:22)

          • Fundisi

            No Mr Universalist, it says all those “in Christ” are made alive, not all people.

          • zunelander

            Actually, no. It does not say, all those in Christ will be made alive. Meaning, only those in Christ. Instead, it says, in Christ all will be made alive. Meaning, because of Christ, all will be made alive. Just like because of Adam, all died.

          • Fundisi

            First, a universal salvation is a most damnable lie, it dishonors Christ and is of the anti-Christ, as it appears are you:

            even so in Christ shall all be made alive:
            Not made spiritually alive, for Christ quickens whom he will; not all in this sense, some die in their sins; nor are all entitled to an eternal life; for though Christ has a power to give it, yet only to those whom the Father has given to him; it is true indeed, that all that are in Christ, chosen in him and united to him, are made alive by him, and have the gift of eternal life through him; but the apostle is not speaking of such a life, but of a corporeal one: to be quickened or made alive, is with the Jews, and other eastern nations, a phrase of the same signification with being raised from the dead, and as the context here shows; and not to be understood of the resurrection of all men, for though there will be a resurrection of the just and unjust, yet the one will be the resurrection of life, and the other the resurrection of damnation; now it is of the former the apostle here speaks, and expresses by being made alive: and the sense is, that as all that were in Adam, all that belonged to him, all his natural seed and posterity, all to whom he was a federal head, died in him, became mortal, and subject to death through him; so all that are in Christ, that belong to him, who are his spiritual seed and offspring, to whom he is a covenant head, and representative, shall be raised to an immortal life by him; or as all the elect of God died in Adam, so shall they all be quickened,
            or raised to life in and by Christ.

            http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/1-corinthians-15-22.html

          • zunelander

            Is this a copy and paste? Universalism does not dishonor Christ. Christ died for all. That God would save all is a dishonor? I disagree with you.

          • Fundisi

            Universal salvation is a lie from hell!

          • zunelander

            Are you gonna’ say that to God, if God decides to have mercy on all?

          • Fundisi

            In Jesus Name I rebuke you and the lying demon spirit in you!

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            really? why doesn’t your “god” cure amputees??

          • https://twitter.com/AChristianBiker Christian Biker

            Hi there Regressive, for a non believer you certainly spend a lot of time amongst us believers. I took the same stance many years ago and found the truth, I pray it happens for you

            Have a great day and be blessed

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            considering the amount of SPIRITUAL and RELIGIOUS literature I have read over the past decades Im extremely happy with what I have “found”
            Allow me to succinctly edify you here and now–
            I have NO PROBLEM with ‘religion’……………. I have a BIG problem with anyone ( including atheists) who want to place THEIR beliefs upon those of us who do NOT want to read/hear/see anything else.
            We of the spiritual realm simply ask that all “believers” keep their beliefs to themselves— if “we” need to make any changes ( dissatisfaction motivates change) we can find you.
            Until then; keep it to yourself.
            GOD cannot be defined by a finite creature such as man; those who defy that absolute (statement) are of a myriad of stupidities.
            I indeed am blessed……….. I recognize it every day
            ====================================
            here is one of my blessings
            …………… 352 yds from where I live; in the state of my birth

          • https://twitter.com/AChristianBiker Christian Biker

            The thing is Regressive you mention ” who want to place THEIR beliefs upon those of us who do NOT want to read/hear/see anything else”

            Yet here you are in a Christian forum trying to impose your views, we are posting in “Christiannews.net” if I recall

            I do believe God has provided us a lovely planet to enjoy, atheists would dispute that I am sure and say it is just an accident

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            (a) im agnostic
            (b) where have I attempted to “impose” my views?
            MY complaint is religious scum who are demanding – through financial legislation– that JE$U$ becomes the law(s) of america
            =====================================
            even if I trumpeted my beliefs ( which I have not) on a social thread such as this I do not see anything as anathemal as the rightwing religious regressives destroying the freedoms in America by forcing THIER VOODOO upon the USA
            -shall I start with quotes from many “founding fathers” regarding religion in our laws??

          • zunelander

            You do realize that you’re rebuking me because I believe God’s love for humanity is so deep, wide, and vast that he has planned to save all of humanity? It’s like, you find something wrong with God doing that.

          • Allison Blevins

            If he has planned to save all, then what was the point in Jesus dying on the cross? If he was just going to show mercy all along why would he have sent a savior?

          • zunelander

            Jesus was the plan to save all. Because Jesus died on the cross, all are saved. Jesus + Jesus’ death on the cross = universalism.

          • SheepToSlaughter

            John 14:6 clearly says Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation.

            Matthew 26 describes what will happen upon judgment and the two different outcomes.

            Jesus spoke of hell often and the fact many would end up there (Matthew 7, 8, 13, 18; Mark 3; 2 Thes 1:9). You are on treacherous ground by advocating such an unbiblical doctrine that would deceive many. Be careful not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and God’s Truth.

          • zunelander

            Have I said that Jesus was not the way to salvation? I have not. Jesus died for all. Therefore, all are saved. Thus, he is the way to salvation. However, this does not mean a person has to be a Christian to follow Jesus. A lot of Christians are so literal when Jesus was more figurative than literal. The punishment of the age is not eternal. It is for an age and then, all are reconciled back to God. Does 1 Corinthians 15:26 not say that the last enemy to be destroyed will be death itself? How so can souls be in a state of eternal death, if death itself will no longer exist, due to its destruction? Death will be no more because it will be destroyed. Death will not exist in the end and no one will be dead or in a state of death because death will be no more and all will be reconciled back to God to life in the age to come. You disagree? That’s fine. I am sharing my faith, just like you. Because you disagree, I expect you to accuse me of things. That’s what people do when their faith and another’s faith do not mesh.

          • James Grimes

            This is heresy.

          • zunelander

            By definition, it may be heresy to those opposed to it. However, heresy does not necessarily mean wrong. Jesus, after all, was accused of not believing exactly as the religious leaders of his day believed. Am I Jesus? No. Could I be potentially wrong in my interpretations. Yes, but anyone here could be as well. However, I am not bound to change my belief for yours. Nor are you. What to do? I say, believe what you will, as long as you treat others in the very same way you would want to be treated in love. For that is true religion.

          • James Grimes

            By definition, heresy is anything that is not taught in the Bible.

          • zunelander

            Which bible?

          • James Grimes

            Proverbs 26 : 4 prohibits me from continuing this “discussion. “

          • zunelander

            Have I been forcing you to reply to me? And, this is a discussion. No need to put quotes around the word. Just because you disagree with me doesn’t make me a fool. And the verse does not say to not answer a fool. It says how not to answer a fool.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            excellent!!!
            explain THESE “biblical definitions” to us slowly as we seculars aren’t very bright

          • Michael Rose

            You are quite the comedian, aren’t you? Have you even read the Bible? If you did and if you understood it you would already have the answers to these questions. Here’s a hint: Old Covenant is different from the New Covenant. As for all your other bile, my friend, just as this article says, all will burn in hell without Jesus. No one from any time or place is going to be excluded from this fact. If you were meant to find God, you will find God. Those who don’t were never chosen. I suggest you take a sober look at yourself and ask that question. Were you chosen? You haven’t found it yet, so I don’t know. Will you ever? Possibly. It starts with humility and respect. The first thing you should do is stop criticizing things you don’t understand and let people be. We don’t force our beliefs on anyone, we merely express them, and that is enough to send raving lunatics like you into a foaming frenzy. You don’t want to hear us, so plug your ears. What we’ve seen we cannot keep to ourselves. We speak because you are in danger and we know how you can be saved. If you refuse us you are only hurting yourself, so why should we care?

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            ive read the bible,,,, the tao,,,,the bhagavad gita,,,,,,,conversations with god,,,,,,,,,,,, the road less travelled,,,,,varieties of religious experience,,,,,12 step literature,,,,,how to be a genuine fake,,,,jonathan Livingston seagull,,,,,zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance,,,,, and much much more spiritual and religious readings ( have you????” NO”)
            I —being an agnostic– knows that GOD cannot be defined by a limited creature such as “man” ; yet soooo many stupid bovaristic ‘men’ still claim to know EXACTLY what ‘god’ is———–
            JE$U$ is not “god”
            ,,,,,,yet you intellectually stultified lemmings claim YOUR way is the only way
            even the romans knew that there are a million roads to rome~~~~~
            yet you cretins TRY 2 tell us that YOUR way is the only way!!
            to quote “MR SPOCK”…..
            “,,,,FASCINATING…”

          • Michael Rose

            The Christian way is God’s way. If you disagree fine, it be on your own head, but you won’t offer us the same courtesy because you are your father’s child. You do the work of your father and I will do the work of mine. We will see who lasts.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            “the Christian way is gods way”
            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            says WHO????????????
            YOU? and your backwards book of woman hating VOODOO??

            really>???

          • Michael Rose

            Says me?!! No! I am nothing. Says God. That’s the truth. Slither your way somewhere else, would you?

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            funny,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
            GOD doesn’t talk to people; yet you claim YOUR bogus “god” is GOD?
            ==================================
            whats your proof??
            ,,,,,,,,,that silly book which loves slavery and hates women???
            VOOOOOODOOOOOOO

          • Michael Rose

            Are you the judge? No, my friend, I don’t have to prove anything to you. Either you listen to what I am saying or you don’t. To find God, you must seek Him. If your heart is hard it is only to your detriment. You rail against what we say as followers of Christ day and night, trying desperately to prove things that you yourself do not even believe. Your behavior has been combative, petty, hostile, insolent, and dismissive. I have nothing to say to you. If you think you can save yourself, that is the delusion you’ll have to carry for the rest of your life. I have warned you. Your fate is your own.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            I was born OK the first time
            ================================
            I need no crutch; unlike you and too many lemmings

          • Michael Rose

            I must admit, you are very amusing. I haven’t often been able to laugh in these discussions. Bravo.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            perhaps U should lighten up and take control of your life here on earth and not waste time with bovaristic fantasies of an afterlife

          • Michael Rose

            If I did deny God’s existence, I would be a liar like you.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            where have I ‘denied’ GODs existence???
            NEVER,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
            I claim that GOD isn’t JEEEE$U$
            ==================================
            try2 get ur facts straight; ok – crybaby???

          • Michael Rose

            “I claim that GOD isn’t JEEEE$U$”
            It’s the same thing. I’m not a liar like you.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            wrong again O crybaby
            ============================
            “god” is NOT JEEE$U$
            ============================
            and because U claim he is…im a liar???
            you are funny

          • Michael Rose

            God claims that Jesus is. You are calling Him a liar and thus are a liar. God is true and every man is a liar.

            What’s with all these symbols? And repeating the same pictures over and over again? You know the truth, but you protest it in your impotence. You have no power and this is all you can do. I pity you.

            I’m gonna watch “Family Guy” now. Goodbye.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            when and where did “god” claim jesus is ‘god’?
            see:below for help

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            wrong answer……………
            a dead gay jewish carpenter is NOT ‘god’
            ======================================
            care to try again?

          • Michael Rose

            You are not the judge. The judgment is in. Jesus is God. If He doesn’t believe that He has to prove that to you, then I surely don’t. You are pathetic in the most venomous and ignorant way. Your life is a waste if this is what you choose to do with your time. While you sit and argue and hate for days about sincere beliefs that people have, we as Christians are advocating peace and love. Even if our God is not real, we behave in a far more respectful, patient, and dignified manner. Even if you are right, you are a disgrace. Unlike you, I do not go where I am not wanted. I don’t prey on the weak, the easily offended, or overly sensitive to give my life meaning. I wish I could fully articulate how disgusting of a person you present yourself to be, but I know your kind. You are bent, indoctrinated, full of hate and lies, and totally beyond the realm of reason and sanity, and you will just take my words and twist them as if that makes up for having an ounce of understanding. You project your guilt on everyone else and live in your little bubble safe from the truth. Toil in the dirt, my friend, the riches of the Kingdom of God are mine and you can’t take them away. The funny thing is that there is enough to go around, but you would rather continue in this piteous existence and a life of degeneracy. If you do not listen, then I have not wasted my time–YOU HAVE. There are many more brothers and sisters out there waiting to be reborn and I’m going to help them with everything I have if the Lord permits. The Kingdom marches on, an inevitable beat that will shake the whole world, and there is not a single thing your kind can do about it except wait to be run over. The streets are going to be paved with gold. This is my Father’s world and soon everyone will know.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            “soon everyone will know it”
            ……………………gee: we haven’t been hearing THAT tune forever , have we???
            ,,,,,,,,,,,,,again: I have NO PROBLEM with a concept of “god”
            my problem is the limited human telling me HIS(her) “god” is the ONLY one!!!
            I guess all other religions are WRONG; and YOUR VOODOO is ‘right’???
            really?
            you ARE a special type of deluded–
            =====================================
            now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, about that silly NOAH lie–

          • zunelander

            God is not a Christian. Christians make God a Christian, just like any other religion does. God is just God and his ‘religion’ is love towards one’s fellow man via altruism, benevolence, and loving kindness. The kind of love shown to humanity with Jesus’ death on the Christ. It’s not about a person becoming a Christian, like a Jew believed a person had to become a Jew. This is about showing love towards others as God showed to us by sending Jesus and obeying the Law of brotherly love, just as Jesus taught to inherit life. Your belief that God’s way is the way Christianity teaches is a belief you hold because it’s your belief. If your belief were something else, you would be saying that was God’s way. God is not a Christian that stands for every little precept and doctrine that Christianity has become to stand for. God, I’m sure, is opposed to some things in modern day Christianity. God’s true religion is love for others, minus the religious rituals.

          • Michael Rose

            You are a heretic and betray yourself. You have ignored what I’ve said to you and chimed in only when you’ve had something to say. Well I’m telling you again, you are wrong. The Way of God is exclusive. Either you accept Jesus or you have no salvation. That is the only truth. The Christian way is what the Bible says, nothing more, nothing less. And if I were to even consider accepting one iota of what you are saying, I would be partaking in a blasphemous lie. There is one path to God and it is exclusive to Christ, period. If you continue in this heresy, you will be turned away by Jesus. You do not know Him, because if you did you would do as He says. (Matthew 7:13-14 & Matthew 25:31-46) “…ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding…” (Mark 4:12) “And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.” (Revelation 22:19)

          • zunelander

            I don’t mind being called a heretic by a fellow fallible human being, Michael. I’m gonna’ say what I believe, just like you are. I’m not going to respond to every single one of your replies, because there’s no point. Nothing will change between us. I will still love you, yet I will not see things how you see them. Just as you will not doin regards to things I’ve written.

            I know Jesus, just like you do. But, apparently, we both have different perceptions of him and what his character is like. Matthew 7:13-14 is referencing the straight and narrow road to life. That path is based on the Law and the prophets, which was addressed in previous verses. The narrow road to life is treating others in the way you would want to be treated. It’s another aspect of the Law of brotherly love, also known as, loving thy neighbor as thyself. The fruit of knowing who is in Christ is not being a Christian. It’s in a person’s love for his (or her) neighbor via altruism, benevolence, and loving kindness. Loving others as self is not limited to Christians. Anyone can love their neighbor as self. That’s the beauty of Jesus’ faith. It’s not based on a particular religion, like many Christians have been indoctrinated to believe, including myself. In fact, the verses you reference in Matthew 25:31-46, support what I’ve been saying.

            The righteous are those who obey the royal Law of loving thy neighbor as thyself (James2:8). The unrighteous are those that do not keep the commandments, which are only the commandments based in brotherly love, not based on Works. Works are any religious rule or commandment that has nothing to do with how you treat your neighbor. Since the Law of Christ is only based on Ethics and not Works, Jesus discarded the necessity to keep the commandments based on religious rules and commandment unrelated to how you treat others. This is why Paul could tell the Jews that an uncircumcised man will be justified before God, as long as he does what the Law of Christ requires, without any need to keep the law of Moses and its Works, like circumcision (Romans 3:20). I know, you do not agree with this, but it’s not your faith, it’s mine. Should I be living according to your faith or my faith? This is why, I believe, God is not concerned with a person’s indoctrinated doctrines as much as he is with how you treat your fellow man. People have different views on things written, but showing love towards your neighbor, as the righteous in Matthew 25 are described as doing is much more reflective of a person’s heart. It’s also the fruit of the Spirit manifested. Religious doctrines unrelated to love for others has nothing to do with spiritual fruit manifesting itself in love. Christ saved all by dying for all. No discredit there. Anyone who loves others is seen by Jesus as loving Jesus. The very verses you mentioned (Matthew 25:31-46) even says so.

          • Michael Rose

            “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment.'” (Matthew 22:36-40)

            “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:17-18)

            “…since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.” (Romans 3:30-31)

            You are steeped in a very skewed understanding of what the Bible says. You cannot look at the Scriptures and apply a separate meaning to what you see before you. Every single word is vital and not one can be ignored or misappropriated without consequences. The majority will perish. You can love your fellow man and still burn in Hell. Only those regenerated by the Spirit by submission to God can please Him and only they will be saved. You are the one who has been indoctrinated. If you say that I have been indoctrinated, then the only source would be the Bible. I believe exactly what the Bible says without question and it tells me that you are in grave danger. You do not know Him, but you could. First thing to do is cast off this lie. It comes from the Devil. You must repent before the end. The Devil wants you to keep promoting this foolishness because the more people who are sitting on their hands, the more people will perish.

          • zunelander

            You’re right! Words are very vital and important, as well is context.

            In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus does say that the greatest commandment is to love God with all thine heart, soul, and mind. However, he goes even further when he answers the lawyer. He not only says that the greatest commandment is to love God with all thine heart, soul, and mind. He also adds that the second commandment ‘is like’ the first. The phrase, ‘is like’ means, ‘is its equivalent’ in Koine Greek. So, Jesus actually told the man what he may have expected to hear as a Jew, but Jesus took it a step further by saying, when you love your neighbor as you love yourself, you are loving God at the same time. Before you disagree with me, take a look at the other bible texts you referenced earlier: Matthew 25:31-46. In those texts, Jesus makes it apparent that what you do unto another human being, you are also doing unto Jesus. So, if you love your neighbor as you love yourself, you are, thereby, figuratively, also loving Jesus. Thus, it’s not far fetched to believe that if a person loves their neighbor via altruism, benevolence, and loving kindness, as the righteous are shown to do in the Matthew 25, then the person that loves others as self is seen by Jesus as loving God and Jesus and is considered a righteous person. Obviously, those who do not love others are unrighteous. If you can’t see that from Matthew 25:31-46, then I certainly can’t make you see it.

            The bible often references two different types of laws. Paul, especially, does this. For example, Romans 2:13 is a reference to the Law of Christ and the commandments therein based on Ethics and how you treat others, while Romans 3:20 is a reference to the law of Moses and its commandments not based on how you treat others. Otherwise known as Works. Paul, throughout his letters, taught that one law is necessary to keep (ie. the Law of Christ and its Ethics), while the other law is no longer necessary to keep (ie. the law of Moses and its Works).

            Christians are often taught, they are not under any law because modern bibles do not distinguish between Paul’s positive references to the law and his negative reference to the law (ie. Galatians 5:4 versus 5:14). Paul is teaching that if they walked in love and loved others as self, they are walking in the Spirit and are no longer under Torah (ie. the law of Moses) and it’s Works (Galatians 5:18). To walk in the flesh is to walk in the opposite direction of loving and treating others as self in love. To produce fruits of the Spirit, one must walk in love and obey the Law of brotherly love. Jesus came to fulfill the law by teaching what the Law is and what the Law is not. The Law is summed up in, ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’ (Galatians 5:14), which is a law consisting of Ethics only, not Works, like the law of Moses. Therefore, the law of Moses and any reference to it is useless because it no longer applies.

            Romans 3:30-31 is referencing the Law of Christ. The royal Law of brotherly love. That is Jesus’ faith. Jesus’ faith is based on the utterance, ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’. The Law is established by faith because loving thy neighbor as thyself is THE faith. You don’t have to accept what I’m saying. I saw that you said that to someone else too. LOL.

            You believe in a God that created humanity, called it good, and then planned a place of a literal eternal torment for those who miss the mark. Well, we all miss the mark. So none of use are worthy of living up to God’s standards, but God loves us soooo much that God planned on reconciling all of humanity back to ‘him’ in the end. I know you don’t believe that, but that’s what I believe. So, you see, we believe in two different God. Or, in the same God, but only perceive ‘him’ differently. You say, I’m in grave danger only, but you only say that because what I believe is not what you believe. And, of course, you couldn’t be the wrong one, could you?:)

            If a person does not repent and change before they die, they don’t end up in an eternal torture chamber, literally forever. What loving God or loving parent does that? But, that’s what you believe. And, when I say, repent, I mean change one’s way of thinking and treating people, since the Law is based on how you treat others. Love is the Law and love fulfills the Law. You think accepting Jesus and becoming a Christian is more important than how you treat people, as if Jesus has this huge ego problem and needs humans to affirm him and if they don’t, they are punished. I don’t see Jesus that way. God being love and the Law being based on love, it makes no sense that Love in and of itself would torture souls in such a way. Gehenna is more so a place of purging and preparing the disobedient soul before they are reconciled back to God.

            Everything I said is just craziness, isn’t it? Of course, you would think so. But, because what you believe is coming from you, it’s all correct. LOL. That’s how we humans are. We believe we are right and the other person is wrong. That’s why loving others as self is more the proof than any back and forth discussion we can have. You will know them by their fruit, not by what doctrinal beliefs they have. If you don’t remember anything else I’ve said, remember that. Much love to you and until next time, take care.

          • Michael Rose

            I gave you the courtesy of reading everything you’ve said… You won’t listen to correction, but you are so wrong that I must try again. You need to read Mark 9:42-48. Jesus makes it clear that a sentence to Hell is an eternal one that does not end. The worm does not die there and the fire is not quenched. And Paul makes it clear that you are very, very wrong. “But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”–that is the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.” (Romans 10:8-10) There is no temporary abode for the deceased to go to be purified, either. “Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” (Hebrews 9:27)

            You keep acting like these are my beliefs or beliefs I was taught by others, but that is absolutely untrue. I am self-taught, or rather taught by the Spirit. I have spent very little time in church and only on a few rare occasions have I sought the council of fellow Christians. What I know, I know from the Bible, the written word which is unchanging as I read it. Whatever conclusions I have come to have been a product of the Bible, period. It is God’s message to the world and only in believing what it says is their salvation. You seem to have great familiarity with the Bible, but you are applying meanings to it that are not there. You are ignoring passages that you find inconvenient, because they don’t fit with your preconception of God. That is creating a new god. To know Jesus, you have to accept what the Bible says without preconceptions. A true Christian who goes astray should be confronted with what the Bible says and that should shut their mouths instantly. The fact that you cannot see where you are wrong is very troublesome and suggests to me that you are not saved. Considering your understanding of the Bible, I am not surprised. Those passages that I have put forth are witnesses against you. If you try and twist what they say, I will not be able to help you further.

          • zunelander

            Hi, Michael. It is not my intention to get you on my side of thinking. My intention is just to share what I believe is true, just like you are doing. If we disagree, it doesn’t automatically mean, you’re right. It just means, we disagree and only God knows which of us is correctly interpreting the original meanings of the text and the text’s message. Whenever I give a bible text reference and you reply back with other bible references to prove that I am wrong, it really doesn’t change my view, because we simply have different reference points of understanding when it comes to the bible and what it says and means.

            Scripture, when understood correctly, does not contradict itself. Having said that, when Jesus was asked by the man, what must he do to inherit life and Jesus tells him that all he has to do is love his neighbor as self, then that is all one must do, if that’s what Jesus’ answer was. If it’s not all a person has to do, then Jesus short changed the man and left out other important information that the man should have been told regarding what one must do to inherit life. So, if Jesus told the man that the requirement for inheriting life is to love thy neighbor as thyself, then why didn’t Jesus tell the man that he had to accept Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior? Why didn’t Jesus say to the man what was said in Romans 10:8-10? It doesn’t seem right for Jesus to leave that out when
            answering an extremely important question like, “What must one do to inherit
            life?” If what is said in Matthew 19:16-19 is in contradiction to what is said in Romans 10:8-10, something is very wrong. Either, Jesus left out things in his reply to the man. Or, Romans 10:8-10 is not in contradiction with Jesus’s answer to the man in Matthew 19:16-19.

            Jesus’ faith is the utterance, ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’. That is why Jesus answered the man like he did. He didn’t leave anything out inhis answer. He meant what he said. If he didn’t, then his answer would be an incomplete one, leaving the man without all of the information he needed for inheriting life. The Law is King Messiah’s faith, the utterance, ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’. All the law and prophets hang upon it. Because it is the Law, Jesus answered the man correctly by telling him, he must keep the Law. But, be clear, it’s not the law of Moses he’s referring to.

            Israel knew and heard of Jesus, so they were without excuse when it came to having to believe in Jesus. When I say, ‘believe in Jesus’, I mean, obeying the Law of brotherly love and loving others as self. Obedience to that Law is the proof that a person is a believer and follower of Jesus, Christian or not. In Romans
            10-8-10, Paul is rejecting an argument about Israel not believing in someone they had not heard of. The word is near to them, Paul says. The faith that was preached by Jesus was known by Israel, so they are without excuse. They knew Jesus’ story, heard him speak, and knew what he stood for, based on his teachings. The word that Paul says is near to them in their mouths and hearts is the utterance, ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’, Jesus’ faith. Israel heard and knew that Jesus preached this message of brotherly love. Matthew 19:16-19 being one case in point where Jesus preached it. To have faith in Jesus is to obey faith’s spoken statement and obey it. Paul knew this and taught it as well.

            Romans 2:13-14 is an example of Paul speaking about this very utterance and referencing Gentiles that obey the utterance naturally, without any religious instruction to do so. They do it by nature. Paul’s reference is an example of a person not having to be a Christian. 1 John 4:7 is another example of a person not having to be a self professed Christian. When you love others as self, you fulfill the required Law and you are, thereby, considered of God. The bible states, anyone who loves is of God and God is in them. This is because love is the proof of God in them, because that’s what God is: love.

            Paul taught that the Torah was superseded by faith’s spoken utterance, ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’. He knew it was the Law that Jesus taught, so he taught it as well, which is only what I am trying to do with my posts. Look up the utterance in the New Testament in as many places as you can and see that it is the Law of Christ and that’s why it’s taught repeatedly. The Law must be obeyed in order to avoid the punishment of the age. Those who claimed to believe in Jesus in Paul’s day were reminded that they must obey the spoken utterance of faith. The objective or purpose of believing in Jesus is to obey what his faith says to do: ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’. If a person, genuinely, has made Jesus their Lord and Savior, they will, without a doubt, obey his commandments and love their neighbor as self. If you say with your mouth that you believe in Jesus, yet you don’t obey his commandments, which are only the commandments based on the utterance, then believing in Jesus in word alone will not save a person from the punishment of the age (ie. the fires of Gehenna), which are not literally forever. You will have to read the books at the end of this post, if you truly want to understand my stance on eternal punishment, versus temporary punishment. Being saved by faith means, being saved by the faith. Probably, should be a capital ‘F’, but you get my point. You avoid the fires of Gehenna and are saved by obeying the Faith of the King. That’s the original meaning of being saved by faith, having faith in Jesus, believing in Jesus, etc. refers to the Faith of Messiah the King and obeying it.

            Paul reminds his audience that Israel has no excuse for not obeying. Instead, Israel held onto what they believed was their own exoneration: keeping the commandments found in the law of Moses. They did not believe by faith or the Faith. Instead, they sought justification by the Works of the law (of Moses), failing to believe in Jesus’ Faith: the utterance, ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’. Notice in Matthew 19:16-19, that the man asked Jesus, “Which ones?”, regarding which commandments should be keep. Jesus did not tell him to keep them all, which would include those found in the law of Moses. He told him to only keep the ones based on how you treat people, which are the Ethics, found in the royal Law (James 2:8). He gives a few examples and then he sums it up with, ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’. Again, he does this because that’s what the Faith is all about. You say, loving others as self is not enough to be saved, while Jesus told the man, it was all that he needed to do. Whom should I believe? You or Jesus?

            When the bible says, a person is a liar if they claim to love God, yet they hate their brother, it says so because loving your fellow man is evidence that you love God. What if the person who who says they love God is a Christian, yet they hate their brother? They are a liar because when it comes down to a person saying they are a Christian, versus a person obeying the utterance, ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’, being a doer of the Law (or doing what the utterance says) is of more importance than self identifying as a Christian (Romans 2:13). And, because it’s of more importance than self identifying as a Christian, that means anyone who obeys the utterance of faith is a much truer Christian than the one who self proclaims to be one, but doesn’t obey the utterance. It’s the very same concept Paul was teaching in Romans chapter 2 about the uncircumcised man being a true Jew more so than a Jew who believes he must keep the law of Moses to be exonerated and justified before God (a requirement to be a Jew). I’m sure, you’ve heard of the phrase, actions speak louder than words. That’s what my point is regarding being a doer of the Law, versus self identifying as a Christian, yet not keeping the required commandments.

            As far as universal salvation goes, the bible has many texts in support of it. 1 Corinthians 15:22-28, Romans 11:32, Colossians 1:20, and Philippians 2:10-11 are examples. I know that you don’t believe in universalism, but I do. First century Christians were taught universal salvation up to about the third century, then Christian doctrine changed once Jerome was asked to translate the bible into latin, resulting in the Latin Vulgate translation. Once you’ve read the books I’ve read, get back to me and we can talk. Something tells me, you won’t read them because your modern day bible is the only book you read or want to read. What you do is of no effect to me. You are very welcome to respond to any posts I may make, but be certain that I will remain faithful to what I believe is true, just as you are. I type a lot, I know, but as time goes on, I will tire of typing because I feel, you should read the books I suggest. That way, any response you have for me will be addressed by what I know and have read. The bible has a history, just like original manuscripts, Dead Sea Scrolls, and other ancient texts have a history. If you turn a blind eye to read about what others have discovered regarding these things, you will only know what is written in today’s modern day bibles and not know what was written, intended, and taught to first century believers in their scriptures. I tend to think that the original believers of Jesus got it right all those years ago and we are the ones with an entirely different story being told, at the other end of the Telephone Game, where a bunch of people sit in a circle and the first person whispers a phrase, story, or sentence in the ear of the person sitting next to them, it gets whispered to the next person sitting next
            to them, and by the time it goes around the circle, something in the phrase,
            story, or sentence doesn’t match what was originally told from the beginning. Some Christians don’t like to believe that this is what happened with the bible because it’s the bible and any human infallibility has no way of touching it because God prevents it. Whereas, anything else not related to the bible that humans are involved in, human fallibility can occur. However, this isn’t fact. It’s just what is believed. Don’t be concerned about helping me. I never asked for help and am not in need of it. I know you think I am, but that’s only based on your human view of what should and should not be. Me and my faith are fine. You are the one who has an issue with my faith. Always in love, but not always in agreement!

            http://michaelwoodcrypto.com/books/

          • Michael Rose

            I found this passage just today. Another strong witness against you: “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24) Those are the words of Jesus.

          • zunelander

            The big picture of all of this is this: Genuinely, believing in King Jesus results in a person obeying the King’s Faith. Those Jesus were addressing did not believe he was who he said he was. Naturally, if they did not believe that he was who he said he was, then they also did not believe they had to follow his teachings and keep his commandments (Matthew 19:16-19). As it goes and as he taught, if you don’t keep the commandments, you will face Gehenna and the punishment of the age. Thus, he informs them that they will die in their sins, if they do not believe he is the Messiah. The main objective being that if they believed him, then they would keep the commandments based on the utterance, ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’, as opposed to believing that justification came from keeping the Torah’s Works based commands.

          • Michael Rose

            It be on your own head.

          • zunelander

            Ditto, my friend. Ditto.

          • John_33

            That can’t be true. God does indeed want all men to be saved, but He will not force anyone to be saved. That’s why He sent His Son to testify of sin and warn them of the coming judgement. If God wanted to force everyone to be saved, then He would have done it already. Instead, He is graciously waiting for people to repent. Below is scriptural evidence of this truth:

            Daniel 12:2 says, “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” How will souls in paradise endure everlasting contempt?

            When the Bible says “for ever and ever”, it means eternity. Examples are as follows: Exodus 15:18: “The Lord shall reign for ever and ever.” I don’t know of anyone who disputes that this is referring to eternity.

            Or Revelation 22:5 “And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign ‘for ever and ever.’”

            I don’t think anyone would dispute that these verses are talking about eternity. But God also says that those who worship the beast or his image will burn “for ever and ever” – this must be as eternal as the previous two verses. Revelation 14:11: “and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”

            God wants all men to be saved, but He will also not force anyone into heaven. The scripture is clear. God will not allow unrepentant sinners into His kingdom. The warning in Mark 16:16 is clear: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

          • zunelander

            Hi. I plan on getting back to you on this. For now, I will just say this: Eternal does not always mean forever. We are not talking English terms here. Stay tuned.

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            Zunelander,you don’t often find people who, as Peter said,”twist Scripture to their own destruction”,and yet…here you are.Wow.

          • zunelander

            That’s, typically, what a person says when their faith disagrees with the other person’s faith. Between the two, of course, the person who says what you said is the one with the “right” faith because it’s your faith. Because, after all, you couldn’t, possibly, be believing the “wrong” faith. Only the other person is believing the wrong thing, right? Typical reaction. If you were an infallible interpreter, I would discard what I believed for what you believe. As it is, you’re just as fallible as I am in discerning what should be. Nonetheless, I still love you. That is more important than agreeing with you.

          • Allison Blevins

            I believe Matthew 7:21-23 says differently. There are requirements for salvation on top of Jesus’ death. That provides us Grace, which is vital but we must also be obedient to God’s word. If someone doesn’t believe in God, for instance, how can they obey God’s word and thus receive Grace and salvation?

          • zunelander

            If you notice, the people referred to in those verses are known to cast out devils and prophesy in Jesus’ name. However, they are still examples of those whom Jesus will profess to not know and they are accused of being workers of iniquity. Why? Because they did not do what the Law said to do: love thy neighbor as thyself (Matthew 19:16-19). Even in Matthew 7:12-14, the Law and the prophets and what it requires are mentioned. To live by the Law is to walk the straight and narrow. As the text goes on, it speaks of those whom Jesus never knew, because they did not live according to the Law of brotherly love. They were too focused on doing Works. Anything not based on loving thy neighbor as self is considered Works. Only that which is based on loving others as self is the Law and the prophets.

            The Jews were so focused on Works and the Works based commands found in the law of Moses, they neglected what Jesus called the whole Law, which are the neighbor based commands, also known as the Ethics. Only the commands based on how you treat your fellow man are the Law (Matthew 19:16-19). All other commands are not the Law. They are Works. This is, actually, what not being saved by Works is about. It was about discarding the commandments in the law of Moses and only living by the commandments based on brotherly love, known as the Ethics or the Law of Christ, which supersedes the law of Moses. Jesus made the Ethics the Law and only the Ethics, nothing else

            The Jewish religious leaders believed in the law of Moses and it Works based commands. This is one reason the Jews were at odds with Christ and his teachings. Even Paul says, those who do what the Law says are justified before God (Romans 2:13). This Law is the Law of brotherly love. It’s the very reason why Paul uses an uncircumcised man in his example in that chapter as someone who is justified before God, as long as the uncircumcised man meets the requirements of the Law, which is the Law of brotherly love for others via altruism, benevolence, and loving kindness. He was not referring to the law of Moses, since the law of Moses required circumcision and the uncircumcised man was breaking that law by just being uncircumcised. Paul navigates often between two different laws: the law of Moses and the Law of Christ. There is no need for the one law and the need to keep the other law. Loving thy neighbor as thyself is the Law to be kept, while the law of Moses is not.

          • Allison Blevins

            You used part of Matthew 19 above… What about the rest of it? Jesus has more to say than where you left off. And what of Baptism? Do you feel we need baptism for the remission of sin as part of salvation, as that has nothing to do with treating others with love?

          • zunelander

            The topic of discussion between us was salvation, grace, and obedience to God. I referenced Matthew 19:16-19, as those are the verses that address the very question of what a person must do to inherit life. As I mentioned elsewhere, Jesus’ Law of brotherly love (ie. loving thy neighbor as thyself) supersedes and replaces the Jewish law of Moses that the Jews believed they had to follow and keep. This is one difference between Jesus’ teachings and the Jewish religious leaders of his day.

            Every religion has its rituals of devotion to God that its followers partake in. Baptism is one of them.Circumcision, for the Jews, is another. However, the Law does not require a person to be baptized in order to be saved. Jesus’ answer to the man in Matthew 19:16-19 shows that Jesus only required keeping the commandments based on loving thy neighbor as thyself as the requirement for inheriting life. This means, Works are not a part of what is required for inheriting life.

            If you’ve ever heard that no one is saved by Works, that is not a reference to not being saved by what you do. Well, today it means that, but, originally, it was not. Works are commandments that can be found in the law of Moses that the Jews devoted themselves to as a part of their devotion to God. They believed they had to keep the Works based commandments, as well as the other commandments found in the law of Moses. Those other commandments were the neighbor based commandments based on loving thy neighbor as thyself. Jesus deemed the law of Moses irrelevant. His response to the man in the Matthew verses confirms that keeping the Works based commands was (and is) no longer necessary to be kept. I do not believe baptism is a requirement for salvation, based on Jesus’ answer of what is required for inheriting life. A person can be baptized, but it’s not something that has to be done. Keeping the commandments based on loving others as self is of more importance than an outward ritual like baptism or circumcision. Jesus told the man that the requirement for inheriting life is to keep the neighbor based commandments,not the Works based commandments. Circumcision and baptism are Works based, as they have nothing to do with how you treat your neighbor. That is why I say, a person can get baptized as an outward expression of their faith, but it’s not required. However, people of faith that are faithful to their religious rituals and they partake in their rituals anyway.

          • handyfixer

            The bible says the gift of God is eternal life. In order to receive a gift you mast accept it. Therefor if you don’t accept Christ you do not have eternal life with Christ. As God’s gift was the death and resurrection of His Son.

          • zunelander

            Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. Everyone will accept. Only, it’s not about accepting Jesus in the modern day Christian sense. It’s about accepting Jesus in the figurative sense. Proof of that acceptance is in your love for others via altruism, benevolence, and loving kindness. The proof of the pudding is not in what you say you believe, but in your love for others. Love others as self, and Jesus sees you as his follower. This is of more importance than the modern day understanding of accepting Jesus, which is a literal understanding.

          • handyfixer

            I feel we should back of with this discussion as the bible does tell us to not cast our pearls to the swine. Our pearls is the knowledge of knowing Jesus Christ and having the wisdom of the Holy Spirit to guide us.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            u are crying again

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            im certain his answer will elude “god”

          • M Diaz

            salvation through Jesus is a lie…being that the only person who is responsible for their salvation is the person who decides to believe…NO ONE can own that choice for you except for YOU…so, at the end of the day, you are your own savior…

          • Fundisi

            That is heresy and a most damnable lie.

            Jesus, precious Name, suffered and died for our sins and rose again to give us new life in Him. That salvation is a free gift of God’s Grace, we can either accept or refuse that free gift, but the salvation that is in that gift is not of our doing. Even the faith to accept that gift is from God’s Grace, the faith itself is from Christ and our ability to live thereafter is also a gift of Grace, wherein Jesus lives His life in us.

            To deny it is first to last by God’s Grace through Christ comes from hell.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            here is JEEEE$U$!!

          • M Diaz

            “That is heresy and a most damnable lie.”

            are you suggesting you don’t own the choices you make for yourself? If you don’t then who does…

            “Jesus, precious Name, suffered and died for our sins and rose again to give us new life in Him.”

            sorry you don’t get to rely on special pleading and expect to be taken seriously..you know why? ’cause only charlatans and children do that sort of thing…everything you claim about Jesus
            has to be supported with evidence….so you are still left holding an empty bag…if you want to own that, it’s your choice after all

          • Fundisi

            I pity you for choosing hell, it is your free will choice. Once you cross over into eternity, there will be no mercy and it is sad that is what you have chosen for yourself.

          • M Diaz

            yes, it’s my choice to utilize something most intellectually honest ppl have, it’s called critical thinking skills,

            “Once you cross over into eternity, there will be no mercy and it is sad that is what you have chosen for yourself.”

            whatever makes you feel better about having your assertions rejected i suppose

          • Fundisi

            This is a Christian News site, why are you here spreading lies about the faith? Are you trying to lead people away from Christ? Do you just hate Christ?

          • M Diaz

            “This is a Christian News site, why are you here spreading lies about the faith?”

            i’m not spreading lies, it’s applying critical thinking…do you own your choices? yes or no…???
            it’s a simple question..why is it difficult for you to acknowledge you own your choices? It’s you who has the power to decide for yourself, don’t you? What about this idea of free will…it’s your choice cause it’s your will…therefore
            you save yourself because you choose to believe, don’t like that bit i understand cause that would mean you don’t need Jesus…which exactly right, you don’t.

            ” Are you trying to lead people away from Christ?”

            I’m trying to offer a dose of self empowerment…which is the enemy of this mundane tribalistic elitist called Jesus.

          • Fundisi

            Self empowerment? While it is this “self,” which is self-centered, selfish that separates you and others from God.

            If I offer you a free gift and you accept it, you have no responsibility for the contents of that gift, your free will only extended as far as accepting it – if it was not offered you would have nothing to accept, but in the case of Salvation God first draws each soul, He opens their hearts to the nature of the gift, He creates the circumstances that predisposes them to accept the gift, so no glory goes to the one receiving it, only the giver. He has drawn you, He has shown you the truth, but you resisted His call and you are responsible for your own death and suffering.

          • M Diaz

            you didn’t answer the question…
            who makes the choices you make for yourself?
            believing is a choice you make for yourself, no matter how much you want to take that power away from yourself, it is you who decided to take that power away, which makes you powerful enough to take that power away in the first place, so ultimately you still have the power, since it was you who took it away from yourself…

          • Fundisi

            Yes I did answer, but your not having His Spirit, wherein only we can discern Spiritual Truth, you are not capable of understanding and are unable to reason.

          • M Diaz

            whatever makes you feel better for having your nonsense rejected

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            I donnnnn’ think FUNDISI will appreciate your accurate candor

          • M Diaz

            Ha! facts are usually disconcerting for the delusional…

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            what about all the millions who never heard of JE$U$???

          • Fundisi

            I refuse to debate a lying spirit from hell – you!

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            sounds like U cannot,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, that’s expected from idiots

          • Scott Bowser

            I forgive you.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            yeah,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I do draw humor from such superstition!!

      • James Grimes

        Ephesians 1:3-14 God DOES NOT draw all people to Himself.

        • Ashley Marshall

          I agree with this as it is the Word of God. It is for God to decide this though, not for us. It is our service to be obedient to God when He says, Go and make disciples of all nations baptising them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

        • zunelander

          And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.(John 12:32)

          • James Grimes

            John 15:1-11

          • zunelander

            Hi I don’t think, you can use John 15:1-11 to show that John 12:32 doesn’t say what it does say. You have to discern how they relate to one another, instead. John 12:32 clearly says, that Jesus will draw all men unto him. For me, the relationship is this: If you don’t abide in Christ, then you will be cut off to suffer the punishment of the age. If you love others as self, you are abiding in Christ (Matthew 19:16-19). For, if you love others as self, you are of God and God is in you. To do the opposite is to not abide in Christ and be disobedient of what the Law requires (Romans 2:13). Basically, abide in Christ by loving others as self, or face punishment in the age to come.

          • James Grimes

            It does. Try reading Romans 9:6-18 for another look at God’s acceptance of some and His rejection of others.

          • zunelander

            This does not change anything. It states, God will have mercy on whomever God chooses and show no mercy to whomever God chooses not to show mercy to. God can have mercy on someone you think shouldn’t get it, like a gay person, for example. At certain times in history, God has shown mercy and withdrawn mercy. However, at the end, because all men will be drawn to him at the end, mercy will be shown to all at the end. This does not negate the fact that mercy was not shown at a previous point in time in history. However, my point is that at the end, mercy will be shown to all, as John 12:32 implies.

          • James Grimes

            I’m not going to be able to help you.

          • zunelander

            No, sir. You are not. No more than I can help you:)

          • Michael Rose

            What does the phrase “many are called, but few are chosen” mean? Every single human being is called to repent (Acts 17:30), but not everyone who is called is chosen to receive Christ or the True Way.

          • penny0314

            First, you have to accept the heavily flawed Scriptures as a literal, valid guide. A few years of Greek will teach you this is not logical. Then you have to accept the notion that repentance is needed at all.

          • Michael Rose

            I’m afraid you don’t know what you are talking about, my friend. The Scripture is not inherently flawed, it is a seamless message. To comprehend that you would have to see it all as one, which means you would have to believe that God is the author, which is something you object to because of the experiences you’ve had in your life. Greek is one of the most communicative languages in history and by far one of the best to use if you wanted to communicate certain ideas that would stand the test of time. You protest, you bully, but reality remains. Your own conscience testifies against you no matter how hard your heart is. God commands all to repent and many will disobey Him. The majority will. You hate us because we try and make you see this, but you are only hurting yourself.

          • PropheticExplorer

            Exactly. It is spoken as a fool who has never examined scripture with a truth seeking heart. He just regurgitates doctrines and memes that other people made.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            im diggin’ having U on here with me to annoy these stultified religious lemmings!!!!

          • PropheticExplorer

            Again Penny, your severely limited knowledge of Greek is not helping you here. I can’t understand why you keep bringing it up except as an appeal to authority which is also a logical fallacy. Remember? You couldn’t find the phrase ‘born again’ reflected in the Greek until I Googled it for you :o)

          • penny0314

            Promise?

          • penny0314

            This assumes you accept the Bible as authoritative. Actually, whole chunks of the gospels come word-for-word out of the Egyptian mystery writings.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            ahhhh,,,,,,,penny penny penny!!!
            ….to quote ‘saint” Reagan–
            “,,,,,,,,,there you go again,,,,,,,,,”
            …………………… annoying a regressive with FACTS!! 🙂

          • Michael Rose

            Your god is not the God of the Bible. You have ignored a sizable amount of Scripture to come to your understanding of God and the only possible result is utter foolishness. Jesus spoke often about how the mysteries of the Word of God were hidden from the masses and all you are doing is proving it so. God has spoken and has decreed that the majority will burn in Hell, the vast majority. Those who butchered Christian martyrs who suffered in agony for Christ will not be saved by the very God they renounced all the way to their own demises. You need to wake up. Consistently the Bible says the wicked shall perish and the minority will taste eternity. Only those who renounce all things in Christ have any chance of seeing God. Any other thought is a despicable lie that God is absolutely repulsed by. You are perverting the Scriptures for your own purposes and you will be called to account for these things. Renounce your sin and stand before the God who made you and let this idiocy reside in the past. You have only a little time left.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            on this we agree!!!
            my “god” is NOT the “god” of any man made idiocy
            My ‘god” simply IS!!!
            ( here is a photo of some of what MY ‘god’ is)
            natures beauty

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            and also this,,,,,,,,,,,
            damn those pesky facts

          • James Grimes

            You are totally depraved pathetic individual. Your are very insignificant on this forum. Bye.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            byebye………………. nice to see U cannot retort the facts
            bye bye,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
            bye bye……………………………..

          • PropheticExplorer

            Didn’t see any facts poor liberal, just a few steaming mounds easily swept away. :p

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            enjoy these facts
            ,,,,get back to me on these; OK?

          • Alan

            All of these can be addressed r w g but it takes an open mind to have a discussion and a non mocking spirit. If you are genuine I will give you an answer. If you just want to sling mud then forget it.

          • PropheticExplorer

            More tortured Atheist reasoning. Christians don’t follow any of the ancient Mosaic Laws that you silly people try to pin on us. That’s what happens when you try reading the bible and projecting your own views onto the text.

            Yes, we are still against adultery, are you for it? Are you for lying? Cursing?

            Working on a Sunday? Sabbath was on Saturday in the OT genius. Seriously, at least TRY to not look foolish 😉

          • Jeeler

            OK, holier-than-ever. Provide an argument; not childish make-believe, to prove his “insignificance.”
            I’m willing to bet this “depraved pathetic individual” has more moral fortitude than a deluded moron like you could ever possess.

          • James Grimes

            OK, clown. You’re the joke of the day. Haha.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            here is the quotidian “jape”
            DAMN that secular with historical facts!!!

          • Alan

            Iif memory serves me correctly, not that I was there, but the Black Plague occurred around the 13th century. The church at the time was the Roman Catholic Church, which was steeped in the ignorance of that age on many levels.
            The actions of the R.C church back then did not often reflect correct Biblical understanding or practice, hence the Protestant Reformation, which coincided with the Renaissance of the 16th century. These two revolutions were birthed on a clearer understanding of scripture and lead to the breaking away from the unbiblical superstitions of the church of that era.
            Some of the foremost thinkers of the scientific world were Christians like Copernicus, Galileo and Newton. Indeed some of the foremost scientists of today are also Christian.
            R W G if you were to take the time to study the Bible from a scientific perspective you would be amazed at how accurate it is. Don’t just run with the slogans of atheism, which for the most part doesn’t even know what the Bible is about.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            (a) black plague from 1346-53 which is the FOURTEENTH century
            (b) im agnostic; NOT atheist
            (c) “god” isn’t JE$U$…………….
            “god” is NOT to be defined by man-
            ,,,,,,,,and any book which claims its ok to have slavery and women as 2nd class citizenry— as well as attempting to sell me some BS such as noah (etc) and Jonah is NOT worthy of anything other than a cursory look
            sorry,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I do NOT ascribe to VOODOO and sueprstition
            ==================================
            enjoy this (below)

          • Alan

            rwg you make some interesting assertions here.
            a) if you look at my comment I said ‘around’ 13th century.
            b) for an agnostic you make a number of definite assertions which are more inclined to an atheistic perspective. An agnostic is more of a serious inquirer with the jury still out. Your mind seems to be closed and blinkered.
            c) on what grounds do you assert God is ‘not defined by man’? Maybe He is defined only by God then?
            Reading your comments generally shows me you’ve made little to no effort to read the Bible or to understand it, yet you’re prepared to spend time and effort mocking it. Please have the intellectual integrity to understand what you are so angry about.

          • PropheticExplorer

            Erm, don’t equate the Catholic Church’s doing with Christianity. It is a cult based only in name upon some aspects of Christianity.

          • Jeeler

            Oh my! I stand corrected! Verily, such humour and perspicacity!

          • penny0314

            Careful, Jeeler. You’re falling into the same logical fallacy as James Grimes: the ad hominem argument.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            right on jeeler,,,,,,
            right on!

          • PropheticExplorer

            Because some other people care about your immortal soul more than you do.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            there is no proof of an “immortal” soul
            *****************************************************
            ergo– your statement is invalid

          • PropheticExplorer

            Umm, no. For someone who puts so much importance on logic and facts that is not a very logical statement. That’s a classic logical fallacy in fact. It’s like saying because I am inside and cannot see it is raining it is not in fact raining :o)

            https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

          • penny0314

            Ad hominem attacks are the tool of one overwhelmed and unable to reason thoughtfully. I see you are out of your depth, James Grimes, and hence resorting to this logical fallacy.

          • M Diaz

            you lost.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            yes I do
            =====================================
            where did cain get a wife?? its NOT mentioned in your book of VOODOO; ergo the book has flaws; thus—
            shall I mention MORE flaws in your book?

          • penny0314

            Excellent! After 3 years of graduate level Greek, I only use KJV for my quote acrostic puzzles. Shakespeare was contemporary with the “translation” we call the KJV. In Hamlet, Hamlet tells Ophelia to “get thee to a nunnery”. Most assume he was telling her to go to a convent. However, at that time, a nunnery was a cat house/house of prostitution. If we misunderstand this so often, how much do we clearly understand of the KJV? King James himself was a flaming queen, and I can guarantee you “abomination” didn’t mean anything like what it does today!!!

          • PropheticExplorer

            You studied three years of ‘graduate level Greek’ yet couldn’t be bothered to find the idea of being born again in scripture?

            Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
            John 3:3 (KJV)

            New International Version
            Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

            New Living Translation
            Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.”

            English Standard Version
            Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

            New American Standard Bible
            Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

            Holman Christian Standard Bible
            Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.””

            International Standard Version
            Jesus replied to him, “Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

            NET Bible
            Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

            Aramaic Bible in Plain English
            Yeshua answered and said to him: “Timeless truth I am telling you: If a person is not born again, it is impossible for that one to see the Kingdom of God.”

            GOD’S WORD® Translation
            Jesus replied to Nicodemus, “I can guarantee this truth: No one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.”

            Jubilee Bible 2000
            Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a person be born again from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

            King James 2000 Bible
            Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

            American King James Version
            Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

            American Standard Version
            Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

            Douay-Rheims Bible
            Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

            Darby Bible Translation
            Jesus answered and said to him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except any one be born anew he cannot see the kingdom of God.

            English Revised Version
            Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

            Webster’s Bible Translation
            Jesus answered and said to him, Verily, verily, I say to thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

            Weymouth New Testament
            “In most solemn truth I tell you,” answered Jesus, “that unless a man is born anew he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”

            World English Bible
            Jesus answered him, “Most certainly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can’t see the Kingdom of God.”

            Young’s Literal Translation
            Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;’

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            you–again– are missing our point:
            ,,we don’t ascribe to your VOODOO/superstition; so your quoting from the bavardage that YOU believe is non sequitur and irrelevant
            “god” ? YES!!!!
            RELIGION??? NOOOOOOO……………
            any fool that “believes” he ( or his shadow VOODOO) can describe “god” is bovaristic and worthy of ridicule

          • PropheticExplorer

            Who cares what you believe? I am not trying to convince you that God exists, you are trying to convince people who know He exists that He doesn’t :o)

          • PropheticExplorer

            King James wasn’t a ‘flaming queen’ by any stretch of the imagination. And even if he was he wasn’t one of the translators :p

            The nonsense you haters spew is amazing, I’ll grant you that, in a ‘cartoon anvils falling on your head’ sense :o)

          • PropheticExplorer

            You obviously haven’t given this much thought. Why would a compiled book written over thousands of years have an original? :o)

          • Alan Jones

            r w gop, can you point out any of those contradictions yourself or are you merely a hater clutching at someone else’s straws?

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            I abhor people who claim that THEIR way is the only way– that’s why I am agnostic
            ======================================
            U wanna believe in any invisible deity? NO PROBLEM
            **********************************************************
            U wanna force it upon those of us who do NOT believe it?
            >>>>>>>>>>>>PROBLEM<<<<<<<<<

          • Alan

            Funnily enough that’s how I see some of the fundamentalist atheist gurus and pro gay rights advocates of today who are trying to misrepresent and choke the life out of the church and Christians as well.
            Just as well you don’t live in an Islamic country where you could be killed for your views. The worst a true Christian will do to you is love you.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            no one in America is choking any “life” out of your VOODOO
            ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in fact; its white trash regressive religious SCUM who are attempting that same “choke” to people of conflicting faiths–
            need any historical events? I can give you HUNDREDS just in the last few years

          • Alan

            Sorry ….Scum, I missed this post. Why are you so shrill and strident about running this hate agenda? For a self confessed agnostic (eg. fence sitter) why are you so bitter in your attacks against those of Christian faith while appearing to be conciliatory towards every other view and religion in Western society? You are seeking to present your view of Christianity as being obscene and regressive, while upholding your defence of nothingness through a series of purile posters and hackneyed phrases.
            As a believer in Christ I see no reason to answer your inane questions but good luck for the future. We (Christians) are not here to lock horns with the voice of antagonism and hatred you, Diaz and other ranters project.. Blame someone else for your problems, not us. Think and believe what you like but let us be free to believe what we want.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            I have NO problem with “believers” believing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,seriously!
            I have a HUGE problem with my country (USA) having scumbag religious trash attempting 2 have their religion forced upon me–and million s of other americans– VIA legislations brought forth by extremist religious scumbags– anti women/anti gay/anti minority
            ====================================
            is it me,,,,,or haven’t U noticed ( also) that the ONLY religion ( VOODOO) attempting this– and sometime implementing this crap– are “christians”???
            I don’t see taoists or jews or Buddhists pulling this crap
            ===================================
            just radical white trash Christians
            keep YOUR superstition at home,,,,,,,,,,,, we don’t want to see it,,,don’t want to hear it,,,,,don’t want to taste or smell it
            ************************************************
            any further inquiries??/

          • PropheticExplorer

            See the url? christiannews.net You are the one who came to a Christian themed website to try and force your beliefs on others. :o)

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            im forcing MY BELIEF(s) upon you???
            name one Ive attempted to force upon you; and describe the ACTION taken–
            (NOTE– action is needed to provide “force”)
            example— white trash regressive religious SCUM attempting to financially legislate that gays cannot marry in certain states
            example– attempting to financially legislate that WOMEN MUST GET an invasive( and useless) trans-vaginal ultra sound before an abortion
            *********************************************************
            got it? “action”

          • PropheticExplorer

            You’re the one arguing against Christianity on a Christian website. How you twist that in your warped mind into us trying to force beliefs on you is beyond comprehension.

          • PropheticExplorer

            Again, YOU are the one on a Christian website trying to force your belief on people. Try looking in the mirror. As far as abhorring those who believe their way is the only way that’s not very logical. What if their way is in fact the right way?

          • penny0314

            And which one of the 16 figures in history are you talking about?

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            perhaps this one??

        • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

          allow this to ”clarify”

          • PropheticExplorer

            Oh ignorant one, there are only two transcripts that scripture is translated from, and one is a forgery. Everything else is diluted from those.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            then explain where cain got his wife ( using your book of VOODOO as a reference)

          • PropheticExplorer

            God created woman out of man to establish the connection between them. Cain’s wife came from another land, not that difficult to understand.

          • Sandy Riley

            good point.

    • https://www.facebook.com/Sigantium Xephyriel

      You limit God’s abilities in creation with your narrow view of humans. We are all capable of finding God in our own way, all we need to do is seek him. The problem is that most people desire not to find truth and the absolution that God is the force of love. Love is a boundless and nurturing emotion therefore to have love is to have God. There is no need to step inside a church for to confine God to a steeple is to confine that infinite power and possibility.

      • Fundisi

        That is anti-Christ an absolutely false!

        • https://www.facebook.com/Sigantium Xephyriel

          judge not lest ye be judged

          • James Grimes

            And here is another unbeliever taking Matthew 7:1 out of context. This is the most abused version in Scripture by unbelievers because they do know the Bible and what it says and what is means.

          • FamousAmos

            Amen, James, although I think you meant to say they do NOT know the Bible, etc. The verse is used as a cop-out by those who are ashamed of their lives and fearful for their souls, yet cannot face the truth.

          • James Grimes

            Yes. I made the correction. Thanks.

      • James Grimes

        “We are all capable of finding God in our own way, all we need to do is seek him.” This is heresy. The Bible does not teach this.

        • DoodyDoo

          that is true…there is only 1 way, through Jesus Christ..John 14:6

          • zunelander

            This does not mean, a person has to be a Christian, in my very humble opinion. It simply means that Jesus has shown people the way when he was on earth. When Thomas said, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going. How can we know the way?”, Jesus merely replied to him by letting him know that, he (Jesus) has made the way and has shown them the way. Jesus never taught others to become Christians. He taught others to love others as self (Matthew 19:16-19) because that is the way to inherit life. Yes, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life because it was Jesus who died for the sins of the world and everyone in it. It was Jesus who taught the truth of how a person inherits life and the Jewish religious leaders did not agree with him because what Jesus taught was not in agreement with the Jew’s reliance on the law of Moses and keeping its works based commandments. Jesus got rid of the law of Moses and its works based commandments and taught love for others as self as being the one and only Law. It is, after all, why the righteous are righteous in Matthew chapter 25. This is why Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. But, it is not what requires a person to be a Christian. That is not a Jesus requirement. That’s a Christian requirement, much like when Jews required non-Jews to become Jews. All my very humble opinion, of course.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            really???? U actually buy this crap???
            religion is voodoo

      • alnga

        so you are saying Jesus the Christ of God lied?

      • Jedi Servant

        You can’t choose how you Worship Yehovah, Period! It’s either your way or His way, look at Cain and Able – one did it their way and the other did it His way but only one was accepted!

        • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

          where did cain get his wife???

          • jason bourne

            It would have been a relative of his obviously which was acceptable since no genetical mistakes were present

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            according to BIBLE– we had adam and eve,,,cain and abel,,,,,,,,,,,,,, abel goes byebye,,,,,,,,,,,,,,cain sent to land of nod by god—————–
            where did cain get a wife? eve get pumped again my adam and 13 yrs later cain showed back up and grabber her???
            Hmmmm?

      • Carolyn Finley

        There is no such thing as “finding God in your own way”; you surrender to Him, as His word instructs, or you don’t. There is no other way, except trough Jesus Christ. We are instructed to go and tell others, but the Bible does tell us that not ALL will be saved.
        “I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father, but through ME.”

        • skeptic15

          Again- why do you assume your god is a “he?”

          • jason bourne

            R u a homosexual?

          • skeptic15

            I don’t see how that’s relevant to the question.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            JE$U$ was,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
            >no wife
            >no kids
            > no girlfriend
            >never said ANYTHING bad about homosexuals
            >all male apostles
            Hmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    • Gary

      Amen, James.

    • skeptic15

      Why do you refer to your god as a “he?” Do you have proof of male genitalia?
      While this question may seem silly, it is not insignificant- every character trait one assigns to a god, imo, especially sex/gender, becomes philosophically problematic.

      • James Grimes

        This site is not for fools. You certainly don’t belong here.

        • skeptic15

          Avoiding the issue?
          Should I presume you have no good answer? Or do you comprehend there is no good answer?

          • James Grimes

            Good bye troll.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            they avoid questions such as yours and “where did cain get a wife”

        • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

          this site is for the advancement of superstition,,,,,,,,,,,
          and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,why doesn’t JE$U$ cure an amputee?

          • James Grimes

            You have issues, don’t you?

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            I notice U did NOT answer my question
            ======================================
            Hmmmmmm………………………..
            ok; heres an easy one:
            where did cain get a wife?

    • penny0314

      Ah, you are a Presbyterian, n’est ce pas?

    • Sandy Riley

      And don’t forget to stone your disobedient children.

      • James Grimes

        Don’t you know that you are to remain silent?

  • JANET BROWN

    Well I am so glad that Darrell Waltrip has determined that I, being Jewish, and the Dali Lama, who is Buddhist, are going to hell. Jewish people actually believe that there are some good christians who will go to heaven but it is because of how they live their lives that determine it not because of going through an intermediary

    • BKSecrest

      So, do you live your life good enough? Do you follow all of God’s commandments and all of the sacrificial rituals that are in the Torah? Mr. Waltrip did not determine this…it specifically states it in God’s word.

      • JANET BROWN

        There are no ritual sacrifices anymore and I do follow the commandments. If I do commit a sin I ask G-d directly to forgive me and hopefully he does.

        • BKSecrest

          Wouldn’t it be better to have an assurance of forgiveness? May I ask a few questions? You don’t have to answer but maybe it will get you to think. Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen anything…even a piece of candy or an ink pen or music/dvds? Have you ever used God’s name in vain? Have you ever lusted after another? Jesus says if you look with lust you have committed adultery in your heart (Matthew 5:27-28). James 2:10 says For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. God sent His son to die on a cross and pay the penalty for our sin. The Torah talks about the coming of a Savior and Christ fulfilled these prophecies. Romans 10:9-10 states that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

          Janet, Please, please think about this before it’s too late…we are not promised tomorrow.

          • JANET BROWN

            Thank you for being concerned but I do not need to think about it. To my knowledge I have never said G-d’s name in vain. Actually Matthew probably and/or jesus got that from Exodus. jesus did not fulfill any of the prophesies. n The writers of the NT did a lot of back tracking to fit the mold. I have a suggestion for you. Get a copy of a real Hebrew bible (like Art Scroll) and get your bible and read side by side the Old Testament as you call it. Pay attention to the discrepencies. You will also see where G-d said no one can pay the penalty for someone elses sins.

          • BKSecrest

            I have researched both and also the Greek. The discrepancies are few and mainly due to the language differences. You are correct. No mortal man can pay the penalty for anothers sins. However, the book of John tells of the deity of Christ. John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. All things were made through Him and without Him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:14 And the word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 talks of the resurrection of Christ: Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
            For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures…Romans 1:16 tells of salvation: For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. I pray that you find that assurance soon. There is no peace in not knowing. Blessings to you, Janet.

          • JANET BROWN

            Thank you for your concern but I will follow my bible and not one written and rewritten. There are more than just a few discrepencies

          • The Last Trump

            May I ask who you believe your Messiah to be? What exactly His role is? When you figure He’ll show Himself and why?
            I’m just wondering if you have spent time asking yourself these questions and researching them. Does it even matter to most Jews or is the popular opinion, ahh, He’ll show up when He shows!

          • Diane Schultz

            Janet, Jesus fulfilled every single prophecy in the Old Testament that was written about the Messiah. Jesus is the only person in all of history who could have fulfilled all of the prophecies. Here is a link to a website that compares the Old Testament prophecies to their New Testament fulfillments: http://www.christsavesministries.org/index.php?proc=pbp&sf=vw&id=5 When you pull up the website, you can read the verses by clicking on them and they’ll open up in a small window. You may also want to Google Chosen People Ministries and check them out as well. I echo BK – please check this out for yourself. I will be praying for you.

          • mazzie54az

            no human being can but God Himself can I’m not as who Jesus was God can do whatever he wants

          • 2lassie3

            Jesus did!!

        • groovsonic

          Thank G-d that His mercies are new every morning (Lam. 3:23). @janet_brown:disqus, there are no ritual sacrifices anymore – but since those sacrifices were to cover or atone for sin, what was the point of them if they weren’t required for forgiveness? Since there haven’t been ritual sacrifices since the destruction of the temple, where is the atonement for sin? Christians believe that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross was the ultimate atonement for the sins of the world…the fulfillment of the sacrificial system. But for a religious Jew (I’m ethnically jewish BTW) where is the atonement for sin? If all that was needed was to ask G-d to directly forgive you, why were the sacrifices necessary in the first place? I’m not asking you that as a ‘gotcha’ question – it is something I genuinely have wanted to understand from a Jewish perspective.

          • JANET BROWN

            Time spent in the Diaspora/Exile is the atonement IF Israel seeks Him with their whole being. The temple sacrifices continued for 30+ years after Yeshua’s ALLEGED death. NOT A SINGLE evangelist was arguing that Jesus’s death was needed for atonement during that interim, especially since it was the Roman Flavians who destroyed the Temple who backdated the Xtian myth to have “Jesus” prophesying about events the Flavians had already recorded in Josephus.

          • hapy_thoughts

            Janet, thank for not being bullied into their believes. I dont share you’re faith, but i respect the way you choose to represent it

          • SheepToSlaughter

            Bullied? This thread seems to be a respectful discourse from both sides, unlike the obnoxious trolls who simply ridicule, post obscene pictures or attempt to make Christians look racist and violent.

          • Jean Adams

            I thought it said in the Talmud that the cloth that should have turned colour stopped doing so about 40 years before the temple was destroyed. That’s when Yeshua The Son of God was the Passover Lamb who was sacrificed for the sins of the world.

        • Jean Adams

          There are no ritual sacrifices anymore because Christ was the sacrifice to end all sacrifices. Only he could do this because he is the Son of God.

    • Gary

      Sorry, but you have it wrong. You are in trouble with God and only Jesus the Christ can get you out.

      • JANET BROWN

        well we will have to agree to disagree

        • Gary

          OK with me.

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          Janet, it’s not the matter of opinions. It is God’s way of saving you. Repent of your sin and trust in Jesus alone as your Lord and Saviour, to be saved from the fit eternal damnation. Nothing and no one else can save you from the consequences of sin.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      “And I(God) will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced… All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God… The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” ( Zechariah ch.12, Romans ch. 3 and 6)

  • KC fan

    Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes unto the Father but by me.” Those are the words of Jesus himself. Darrell Waltrip did not just make it up. We are saved by the grace of Christ alone…we are not saved by our works, our deeds, our lifestyle, our religious rituals, etc. Even a born again believer who falls into sin is still saved by grace alone, preserved by the grace of God. If our salvation (or keeping our salvation) depended on our own works, we would all be in big trouble.

    • Fundisi

      Amen!

      • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

        religion

    • trustedstar1

      Well said,,Brother !

    • zunelander

      Jesus died for the sins of the world, making himself the Savior of all men. That is why, there is nothing we do to earn our salvation. It’s a gift of grace given to us, not earned. However, the punishment of the age will be experienced by those who disobey the Law of Christ, which is the Law of brotherly love. Also known as the royal law (James 2:8) and often referred to as loving thy neighbor as thyself. What must a person do to inherit life? (Matthew 19:16-19) Do this and you shall live. Do this and you are following Christ. And, you don’t have to be a Christian to do love others as self.

      • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

        correct———
        this is YOUR opinion

        • penny0314

          BRAVO!!!!!

        • PropheticExplorer

          You can’t prove God exists to another person any more than you can prove to someone who lived their whole life in darkness that light exists. Especially if they love their darkness.

        • Sandy Riley

          So true.

      • penny0314

        If you have peace with this, more power to you. You do know that whole chunks of the gospels come word for word from the ancient Egyptian mystery writings. The rest of us would prefer not to have open minds bashed into the closed holes of Christianity and Islam.

        • Sandy Riley

          BRAVO!!!!!

    • handyfixer

      I agree one hundred percent and you know what there are people out there who will say white is black and black is white and they think they know what certain scriptures mean but they don’t so I am not going to argue. I know I have eternal life through Jesus Christ and non other.Some say once saved always saved but If i on purpose turn my life into a life of sin and reject the drawing of the Holy Spirit I would not have eternal life with Christ.

      • penny0314

        If this gives you peace and joy, more power to you. Please don’t try and cram this stuff down our throats, however. I have eternal life, and didn’t need Jesus to get it. Also have absolute peace, which I didn’t have as a born-again Christian. I was a hospice nurse for about a year and a half, and I found that the “born again” (this word is nowhere in the Greek!!!!!) Christians were the MOST afraid of dying. My fellow nurses all had the same experience.

        • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

          we were born OK the 1st time

        • Jeremy Crockett

          If you do not desire to have “this stuff… crammed down [y]our throats”, why are you here on a Christian forum? I’m NOT saying that you are un-welcome. But if you know, in general, what the topic of conversation will be WHY complain about the topic? That does not make sense.

          You then go on to state: “I have eternal life, and didn’t need Jesus to get it”. What do you mean by that?

          Next, you claim that “[I]… [a]lso have absolute peace, which I didn’t have as a born-again Christian.”

          What do you mean by the phrase “born-again Christian”?

          Another declaration from you: “‘born again’ … is nowhere in the Greek…”

          I am unsure if you are aware of this but that statement is patently false. You are likely repeating what you have heard or read elsewhere.

          Lastly: “I was a hospice nurse for about a year and a half, and I found that the “born again”… Christians were the MOST afraid of dying. My fellow nurses all had the same experience.”

          This is anecdotal at best, plus it’s an appeal to authority. Both are logical fallacies. One: we have no way of determining whether or not the statement is true, two: did you interview and record these interviews with the patients mentioned, three: did you interview and record the results of the interviews with your fellow nurses?

          It’s not a matter of “what gives… peace and joy”, it’s a matter of “what IS reality”? Just because something… ANYTHING gives “peace and joy” does not mean that thing intersects with reality. To believe something merely because it’s comfortable is an excellent way to deny reality.

          I think there is a really false idea that Christianity is comforting out of the gate. It can be, but I really believe that such is more a matter of the sinner in question. Or as someone much wiser than me said: “Christianity should comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.”

      • Sandy Riley

        You don’t KNOW it, you hope it.

        • handyfixer

          I have no doubt that I will go to be with Christ in Heaven when I die. There is a heaven to gain and a hell to shun. You tell me why a business man I know who ridiculed the Christians all his life and when his doctor told him he had only a few hours to live he asked for a pastor to show him the way to God. I have seen people that loved the Lord die and it was a wonderful end of their lives they even joined us in singing praises to God even though they were in pain.and a man I know who did not know Christ died cussing and swearing and was cringing when we tried to talk to him. I am praying God will speak to your heart before its too late.

          • Sandy Riley

            It is so sad that the only hold the religion has is, fear of hell, and promise of heaven.
            No goodness for just goodnesses sake, or betterment of society. Seems to work well for it though. If I could only get proof of god from some other source of information than the bible or a bible insitute or a bible historian, or some other bible based circular reasoning, but you know, I haven’t got that. ITs a self feeding belief, based on social structure, and mass dilusion. I guess they are called sheep for a reason, and I doubt its complimentary. (based on what copycats sheep are) I simply doubt it likely in the least that every single thing in the bible is true, and unless its all true, none of it is.

    • yellowdogdemocrat

      Same old Xian bullshit. Too bad Waltrip wasn’t vetted for his extreme religious mumbo jumbo. I’ll take the Dalai Lama any day over the intolerant garbage Waltrip spews.

      • lynn

        I never cared much for Waltrip as a nascar driver, but he told the truth.

        • yellowdogdemocrat

          Religious “truth” is based on religious faith, and religious faith is not based on objective reality. Each religion has its own version of “truth”. Waltrip’s version of the “truth” is no more true than any other religion’s version of the “truth”. He cannot know that not accepting a certain saint will send one to “hell” because no one has ever come back from “hell” to talk about it.

          • Lee

            I find it interesting that a non believer would take time out of his day to watch the personal testimony of a Christian and then comment about it on a Christian website. Are you sure you aren’t searching for The Lord?

          • yellowdogdemocrat

            Yes.

          • Brien

            I stand for truth! I reject groups that go out into the public and lie to us and especially to our children.
            I teach children to question that which they learn, and your religion has no proof for its claims, thus a lie by default.
            I am searching to make laws of child abuse for teaching lies to our innocent children; and no, we were not born with any idiotic ‘sin’ on our fictitious souls.

          • Jake77

            Faith is not based on reality? You have faith every time you sit in a chair, that it will hold you up. Sir, you are headed for a terrifying Godless eternity without Christ because of your sin nature. Hell is forever. It never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever ends. You could die today. If we are wrong there is no issue, but if you are wrong, you are headed for unfathomable torment that will never stop. God is holy and cannot tolerate unrighteousness and without Christ, you are under His wrath. Jesus paid the price for you on the cross, but He also gives you a choice to accept His redemption and live or reject it and face eternal torment. And, it would not matter if someone came back from hell to warn others. Scripture talks of the rich man who looked to his money instead of a Savior, who died and was tormented in hell. “And the rich man, who was in torment, asked for mercy, and that Lazarus would be sent to warn his five brothers so they would not end up in the same torment. But Abraham said, …neither would they be persuaded if someone came back from the dead.” Luke 16 “He that believeth on the Son has everlasting life…but he that believeth not, the wrath of God abides on Him.” John 3:36 Come to Christ before you slip out into all eternity!

      • lynn

        I never cared much for Waltrip as a nascar driver, but he told the truth.

      • Willing to die for Jesus

        What bigotry! You realize – like we ALL do – you have to give an account to ALMIGHTY GOD on Judgment Day. Just because you don’t believe God exists and is a fairytale, doens’t make it so. Don’t be so proud. I am a lawyer, with a master of laws and working on a doctorate. BUT IT MEANS NOTHING, neither to me NOR God. It is ALL ABOUT Accepting Jesus Christ for the Blood He Shed on the Cross for Our Sins and Salvation. Please don’t persecute us – Christians – like Muslims do. If you HATE THE CROSS – it makes you NO DIFFERENT from Muslims who likewise Hate the Blessed Cross and are So Full of Hate. What have you got against JESUS CHRIST – our SINLESS, PERFECT ROLE MODEL?

        • Jenji Morgan

          You can not PROVE one single claim you made in this post. Obviously you’ve got a distorted view of what you BELIEVE vs what is FACT. You’ve swallowed the story, hook line and sinker, and you can only resort to threats of eternal damnation. It’s not about hating the cross, it’s about seeing the Abrahamic religions – ALL OF YOU – for the cult you are. Enjoy the koolaide. I’m enjoying the only life I get without YOUR sick controlling manipulation. I hope someday you will have the courage to READ your precious bible unsupervised and learn to think about what you are reading without being TOLD what it means.

          • Shawn Singer

            Well we will continue to pray for you anyway. The thing is I believe in what God tells us in the Bible, but if I am wrong – no big deal. Now if your wrong, eternity is going to be very very long.

      • Sheldon Drake

        thanks for trying, but obviously pretty much everyone here is immune to reality, and will do nothing but gargle up their usual “it’s bad because it’s wrong” circular go-nowhere bullshit. We’re just pissing into the shitstorm of stupid, as it were. Religion is a disease, and until corporations took over, it was the dominant lifeform on earth. Now those criminally vicious megacorporations and the vile insane people that run them are using it to manipulate the gullible, and there seems to be very little to do about it but cry into our hands at the sheer stupidity of it all. Little hope of anyone ever giving up their precious fact-resistant “faith”, no matter what water-clear truth is paraded before them. I really wish the promised rapture would come and take away the promised 200,000 or whatever their idiotic “holy book” says, leaving the rest of them holding their wet pants wondering how they could have been so deeply lied to. Holding my breath over here.

    • M Diaz

      “Those are the words of Jesus himself. ”
      based on what criteria do you assert this, being that the gospels were written decades later…??? it’s also interesting to note that Paul’s letters, which were written way before the gospels, offers no details about Jesus’ life AT ALL..
      so in order for you to assert that Jesus is relevant, how do you expect to be taken seriously if you can’t back up your assertion?
      Btw, your personal interpretation is meaningless to me, like your musical taste are meaningless to me…the only assertions that has any meaning at all are the assertions that can be supported with observable evidence, like math and gravity…and since you seem to operating like a charlatan, why should i believe what the bible says?

      • penny0314

        May I suggest a book called “The Pagan Christ: Recovering the Lost Light” by Tom Harpur. I guarantee you will really enjoy it, based on your comments!

      • PropheticExplorer

        Why would a writer who never met Christ be providing eyewitness details about His life? The gospels were eyewitness accounts.

        • Alan Jones

          P E Paul had an encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus as recorded by Luke in Acts. Luke, who wrote the Gospel of Luke, was not a disciple but wrote about Jesus by interviewing those who knew Him and/or were eyewitnesses.

          • M Diaz

            Paul NEVER gave ANY details about Jesus life.
            Paul was a charlatan….

          • Alan

            God, through Paul, gave us two thirds of the New Testament. His role was to teach and exhort the church not merely from an historical viewpoint as per the Gospels. Through Paul we understand salvation, grace and faith, among other things.

          • M Diaz

            “His role …”
            based on his claims no less…you know dead ppl don’t usually have conversations with live ppl, don’t you?

          • Alan

            M D I had given you the courtesy of treating you as an adult but judging from your responses there is little to be gained by entering dialogue with you. I don’t think you understand what I’m talking about.

          • M Diaz

            “M D I had given you the courtesy of treating you as an adult”
            considering you are relying on the logical fallacy of special pleading i hardly think you are willing to be intellectually honest…

          • Alan

            Have you read Josephus historical accounts?

          • M Diaz

            you mean the ones that were written somewhere between 93–94 AD?

          • Alan

            Is that a yes or a no?

          • M Diaz

            i suppose you are too stuck in your straw man argument to see that was a yes

          • Alan

            Have you read ‘Foxes Book of Martyrs’? This is an historical account of the deaths of most of the Disciples of Jesus, many members of the early church and others throughout the centuries following. People don’t give their lives for even a ‘logical fallacy’. The Disciples and many of the early church, knew and talked with Jesus and were convinced He was and is the Son of God who rose from the dead.

          • M Diaz

            ” People don’t give their lives for even a ‘logical fallacy’
            you are so full of cow dung…

            are you suggesting that the islamic suicide bombers are not killing themselves for a logical fallacy sparky?

            what is wrong with you? do you have ADD?
            we are discussing the FACT that Paul NEVER submitted ANY details about Jesus life being that his letters predate the gospels NOT about the martyrs

          • Alan

            I predicted that would be your response. If you examine Islam you would find that they have no assurance of salvation apart from being killed or martyred in Jihad.
            This lie is pedalled by Imams who have their own agendas. Islam is a religion predicated upon fear and as far as I know,the only one whereby the adherents are given ‘browny points’ for killing the innocent.
            Don’t worry about coming back with the Crusade retort. That was initially started by the Seljuk Turks (Muslims) preventing and killing Christian pilgrims (Catholics) coming to the Holy Land. The Pope’s response was to declare a ‘holy war’. Atrocities happened on both sides and as far as I am concerned, both were wrong. It had nothing to do with Scripture but religious blindness.
            I think you are now getting personal and off topic by disrespectfully referring to me as ‘Sparky’ and ‘special pleading’ by asking if I have ADD.
            You mention that you were a Bible College student. Were you refused ministry?

          • M Diaz

            yea you must be suffering from ADD
            “If you examine Islam you would find that they have no assurance of salvation”
            in order for this assertion to be taken seriously you first have to back it up with evidence that supports ppl need salvation sparky
            “This lie is pedalled by Imams who have their own ”
            irrelevant…there are no eye witness accounts to Jesus life…
            “Don’t worry about coming back with the Crusade retort. ”
            i won’t cause it has nothing to do with the fact that there are no eye witness accounts to Jesus life…

            “You mention that you were a Bible College student. Were you refused ministry?”
            no i quite after my hermeneutics teacher explained that there were eye witness accounts to the life of Jesus…the shock in the class was pretty astonishing i remember .. but the teacher explained that faith is about believing beyond what the evidence reveals…that sort of made me think twice about the entire thing…

          • Alan

            MD I am sorry that you were disillusioned through the ignorance of your hermaneutics teacher. A good book to read on the resurrection for example, is one I read many years ago by a former High Court judge called Sir Lionel Luckoo. I think it is called ‘Evidence for the Resurrection’..
            I don’t know what ‘flavour’ Bible college you attended but if you were to experience what is referred to as the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, thoughts of doubt would never occur to you.
            If you are open and want to know more then please write to me on my email: [email protected]

          • M Diaz

            “God, through Paul, gave us two thirds of the New Testament.”
            prove it…you empty claims are still empty claims….
            you know when Jesus said faith can move mountains, i wonder why he didn’t move Mount Everest … lame

          • Alan

            Easy. Read the authorship of each book eg. Romans, Corinthians 1&2 most of the other Epistles including 1&2 Timothy and quite possibly Hebrews etc. etc. Most writers identify themselves, so you disprove it.
            Your comment above reveals a very flippant, non genuine spirit.
            Which denominational bent were you associated with? (curious)

          • M Diaz

            i don’t rely on circular reasoning…

            and to suggest that i rely on the authorship of ppl who lived in ignorance and who lived in a much larger world then we do now, is astonishing to me..why would i lower my standards?

            jack hayford was my pastor at the church on the way in van nuys ca.

            “Your comment above reveals a very flippant, non genuine spirit.” about moving mountains?

            well i really always wondered why Jesus relied on “miracles” that were pretty petty considering his pop created the universe…those miracles seem rather lame, any magician of the time could have performed those types of miracles…

            can you at least help me clarify a few things?

            why are there no other accounts of the those that were raised from the dead as depicted in Matthew?

            or if Mary came to prepare Jesus body for burial, being Jewish, a woman couldn’t prepare a mans body unless she was married to him

            and Did Jesus offer his spirit before or after he
            yelled “why have you forsaken me?”

          • Alan

            MD It is impossible to have a discussion with someone who uses such an egocentric line of logic. You attack others for using a subjective example and dismiss whatever does not resonate based on your subjective judgement.
            Your ‘objectivity’ is based on your egocentric/subjective view as much as anyone you criticise.
            You have set yourself up as the ‘god’ of this thread and your insistence is that others bow to your ‘standard’ of logic as though you were the one to be pandered to. Very egocentric indeed. You appear not so much interested in discussion as in a form of dominance.
            In essence you represent the ungodly who gloat and mock the children of God who put their trust and faith in the God of the Gospels. No one will penetrate the wall of arrogance you surround yourself with, even with sound logic or evidence as you are impervious (at the moment) to anything but the voice inside your head.
            You may have been hurt or disillusioned in the past but whilever you cling to that it will hamper any real revelation (in my opinion). If you want any genuine discussion then contact me on the email address I have already posted.

          • M Diaz

            “MD It is impossible to have a discussion with someone who uses such an egocentric line of logic”

            what’s egocentric is believing you can represent the supreme being of the universe pal…i make no such claims..i am only providing the criteria i require in order to establish if something is real or not…and i apply that same standard to EVERYTHING

            got a problem with that? tough…

            “You attack others for using a subjective example”

            no i am calling out arrogance when i see it…again do you have a problem with that? tough

            “Your ‘objectivity’ is based on your egocentric/subjective view as much as anyone you criticise.”

            nope…it’s the standard i already explained, got a problem with that? tough

            “You have set yourself up as the ‘god’ of this thread”

            from what i can see, ppl are approaching me, got a problem with that? tough

            “In essence you represent the ungodly who gloat and mock the children of God”
            of course anyone who claims to understand the will of the supposed supreme being of the universe deserves to be mocked…but what i want to know is why are whining about it?
            rejoice and suck it all up like a good christian should..or did you conveniently forget matthew 5:10-11..you hypocritical cherry picking christian…

          • Alan

            This response confirms my allegations above! No need to shout sweetie.

          • M Diaz

            YEP…IT CONFIRMS THAT I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SCRUTINIZE EVERYTHING THAT IS PRESENTED TO ME…DON’T LIKE IT DO YOU…? WELL TOO BAD

          • Alan

            The sign of a person with no logical or intellectual response is VOLUME Baby. I think you have several deep seated problems but I cannot claim to be qualified enough to tackle them.

          • M Diaz

            WHATEVER MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER FOR BEING ARROGANT ENOUGH TO INSIST I AM NOT IN THE POSITION TO SCRUTINIZE ANY AND ALL CLAIMS PRESENTED TO ME…I SUPPOSE IT IS UPSETTING KNOWING YOUR GOD IS THAT IMPOTENT THAT IT CAN’T MEET ME WHERE I’M AT…OR THAT YOU FAILED MISERABLY AT PRESENTING THE EVIDENCE THAT I REQUIRE TO BE CONVINCED

          • Alan

            Are you really looking for God or are you trying to destroy Him and His followers?

          • M Diaz

            REMEMBER I ALREADY THOUGHT I FOUND GOD.
            UNTIL I STARTED TO QUESTION THE ATTRIBUTES OF GOD WHICH COME FROM THE BIBLE

            BEING. THAT. THERE. ISN’T. A. STANDARD. THAT. CAN. ESTABLISH. WHO. AND. WHAT. GOD. IS. (UNLESS ONE RELIES ON THE CIRCULAR REASONING THE BIBLE OFFERS, WHICH DOESN’T WORK WITH THE WAY I ESTABLISH WHAT IS REAL OR NOT) ANY. AND. ALL. CLAIMS. ABOUT. GOD. WILL. BE. SCRUTINIZED. JUST. AS. I. SCRUTINIZE. EVERYTHING. ELSE. THAT. IS. PRESENTED. TO. ME…

          • Alan

            Looking back on your latest verbal dribble I would like to point out your false assumptions and notions:
            1. I have never said I am opposed to you ‘scrutinizing claims presented to you’. Quote me if you can find otherwise.
            2. Basically I couldn’t care less about your ‘impotent god and his inability to meet you where you’re at…’ and my God won’t share His throne with you.
            3. It’s not up to me or anybody else to present you with evidence required for you to be convinced. As a matter of fact all I have done is recommend some books for you to read. If you can’t be bothered (too lazy) then you’re on your own sonny boy/girl.
            The world doesn’t revolve around M Diaz so ‘get a grip’ and stop your gripe.

          • M Diaz

            “1. I have never said I am opposed to you ‘scrutinizing claims presented to you’. Quote me if you can find otherwise.”

            what did you mean with this pal?

            “Your ‘objectivity’ is based on your egocentric/subjective view as much as anyone you criticise.”

            no my standard of establishing if something is true is not based on egocentric/subjective view it based on being presented with observable and objective facts…are you capable of understanding that?

            “and my God won’t share His throne with you.”

            whatever makes you feel better

            “It’s not up to me or anybody else to present you with evidence required for you to be convinced.”

            well you certainly seem to be hitting the reply button a lot

            “If you can’t be bothered (too lazy)”

            i went to bible college…that isn’t being lazy…that is studying and in my studies I BEGAN TO QUESTION

          • Alan

            Apparently you don’t understand plain English. Scrutinize all you like. What I said is that you are no more objective than anyone you criticise. Don’t twist my words boofhead!
            Most of your responses to well meaning people are scathing and nasty and smack of a person who believes his views are the only ones that count. This implies your egocentricity and pride.
            Your experiences may differ to others but theirs are no less valid, except in your mind.
            Initially I thought you were a well meaning person with genuine openness but now I see you are only playing a game and bating the unwary.
            If what you say is correct, that you went to Bible college, then perhaps you had some experience with God. If that was real then you were duped by the opinions of a foolish lecturer.
            What alerted me to your error was the lie you told about Paul and thereby the Word of God. You called him a charlatan and thereby dismissed most of the New Testament.Incidentally you have provided no proof of your assertion- merely your opinion (quite hypocritical as you demand proof of others).
            I have only come across one other person with that deception and he was so embittered he was possibly one step from the ‘nut house’.
            It is reasonable to question but it is not reasonable to offer insult and derision to those who take a different stance to you. You have provided nothing of merit to all you have locked horns with, merely your subjective, judgemental and dismissive retorts.
            If you want to share your conversion experience and initial relationship with God then we may have a starting point to civil dialogue. It’s up to you.

          • M Diaz

            “Apparently you don’t understand plain English. ”

            no need for the ad hominem pal. how does that help you?

            where is the peace of the lord there? this ad hominem speaks volumes about your frustration that your god is just simply too small for me…sorry (actually, I’m not)

            “What I said is that you are no more objective than anyone you criticise.”

            the level of your arrogance is astounding pal or are you so disconnected that you don’t realize THESE are CLAIMS about AN AUTHORITY OVER ME. i think i have MENTIONED that ONCE or TWICE, but i suppose in your COGNITIVE DISSONANCE it’s hard to understand WHAT i am saying but you would rather FOCUS on HOW i am saying it… ONCE AGAIN, I have the RIGHT to scrutinize EVERYTHING (and this is the word i want YOU to focus on, READY….???) …CONSISTENTLY… (TO MAKE CERTAIN YOU UNDERSTAND I WILL REITERATE…..I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SCRUTINIZE EVERYTHING CONSISTENTLY even GOD CLAIMS…there are NO EXCEPTIONS PAL!!!! are you capable of understanding that?

            “Most of your responses to well meaning people”

            who are you robin hood? these ppl approached me in a snotty way, and i just responded accordingly…no ones silly story about their experiences about something they claim to be OBJECTIVE isn’t gonna cut it for me….as i already said pal…I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SCRUTINIZE EVERYTHING CONSISTENTLY even GOD CLAIMS…there are NO EXCEPTIONS

            ” If that was real then you were duped by the opinions of a foolish lecturer. ”
            all this to avoid the FACT that the names mark matthew luke and john are on the later manuscripts…WHICH IS SUPPORTED BY EVERY SINGLE BIBLE SCHOLAR THERE IS…have you done any research pal…looks to me i have been the one who went to bible college, looks like i am not the lazy one as i was willing to ACKNOWLEDGE my doubts…that isn’t being lazy pal, it’s being HONEST WITH MYSELF…if you don’t like that, then please stop hitting he reply button.

          • M Diaz

            these are claims of an authority over me pal…
            therefore i have the right to approach any and all claims about an authority over me with consistency…god claims are no exception…i wonder why you have a problem with that?

          • Alan

            Give me evidence of Paul speaking to a dead person eg. chapter & verse.
            Re. Mark & Luke’s different Gospel accounts re. thief/thieves give me the references and anything else which is troubling you.
            You are aware that witnesses often recall different aspects of an incident, which makes neither necessariy wrong. Yes, I know Mark & Luke weren’t disciples but they interviewed disciples and other eyewitnesses.
            You may be aware of the story of the blind men and the elephant. Each examined a different part, therefore their descriptions varied….
            M D I can’t understand your abhorrence or fear of authority. We are all under authority of some form or other else we’d have anarchy. Even a slave can remain free if he doesn’t allow anyone to own his mind or soul.
            Now that we’re such good ‘pals’ you can relax.

          • M Diaz

            “Give me evidence of Paul speaking to a dead person”

            i will NOT give you EVIDENCE of Paul, referred to as Saul at the time, speaking to a dead person because it didn’t happen, dead ppl don’t have conversations with live ppl…however, i can provide for you the chapter and verse for which Paul, referred to as Saul at the time, you know the charlatan, CLAIMS to have spoken to a person who is understood to be dead…it’s real easy for lazy ppl like yourself to find out where to find these assertions…google is your friend…Acts 9:1-9

            “Re. Mark & Luke’s different Gospel accounts re. thief/thieves give me the references and anything else which is troubling you.”

            man you are lazy since i was nice enough to grab your hand and lead you to the chapter and verse for which you could have easily googled, it’s your turn now, ok? go to google type in; crucifixion Jesus Mark and you will find it..then when you’re done with that, go to google again and type in: crucifixion Jesus Luke…it’ll take a bit of comprehension of course, since you are gonna have to look and research YOURSELF (pssst, that is a good thing)

            “You are aware that witnesses often recall different aspects of an incident, which makes neither necessariy wrong… You may be aware of the story of the blind men and the
            elephant. Each examined a different part, therefore their descriptions varied”

            nonsense!!! saying “why have you forsaken me” and also saying “into your hands I commit my spirit.” Doesn’t really work TOGETHER if the SAME person is ATTRIBUTED to saying these things in the same context…so go read the crucifixion scene in mark and then read the scene, a scene that only happened once to the same person, and then read the crucifixion scene in Luke…and you explain what was said first…”why have you forsaken me” or “Into your hands I commit my spirit”

            additionally, if Mary wasn’t married to Jesus (a popular idea among xtIans) how was she allowed to prep his dead body…only the wives of dead Jews were allowed to do that…
            why did god flood the earth and murder innocent children instead of impregnating a virgin then?
            why does gods love require conditions, love is unconditional…if there are conditions in order to get “love” it’s a co-dependent relationship with an abusive person as that person threatens to lovingly send you to be eternally tortured, something that this loving being set up for you…that isn’t love, that is control and manipulation…a very petty thing for a all powerful all loving god to do…don’t you think?
            also the idea of giving away your culpability is, for me, a morally wrong thing to do…I own my choices, and to have someone say, “these things are not yours anymore because you belong to a tribe of believers who believe these things are not yours anymore because they believe that one is favored based on the belief one is favored” is fueled by self serving delusional arrogance…not interested in that sort of thing…

          • Alan

            Sorry to trouble you your highness but you need to comprehend that it is necessary for me to know to what your lordship is referring as I have never thought Saul/Paul spoke to any dead person. To make that claim you have to deny the Resurrection of Jesus, which I don’t. Therefore your premise is incorrect and as far as I and most of the Christian world is concerned, you’re wrong! A good book for you to read on the subject, if you have the diligence to do it, is Sir Lionel Luckoo’s book: ‘Evidence for the Resurrection’.
            I will look at the rest tomorrow.
            Goodnight my friend/pal

          • M Diaz

            “To make that claim you have to deny the Resurrection of Jesus, ”
            sorry pal the resurrection is a claim YOU NEED TO QUALIFY
            boy you’re lazy

          • Alan

            Don’t be lazy. Read the book chook!

          • M Diaz

            are you suggesting i read a book about written by a charlatan who writes about a book that claims to be a 3rd part revelation of the supposed supreme being of the universe?
            lets think about that method, shall we chump?
            ok if the supposed supreme being relies on this person to offer apologetics, wouldn’t it be even more compelling had apologetics were NEVER REQUIRED IN THE FIRST PLACE?
            i don’t need apologetics to explain to me that when i get in the water i get wet…or apologetics to explain that if i don’t breath for a certain period of time, i’ll pass out…for me,
            extraordinary claims requires extra ordinary evidence and since all you have is the appeal to a person who suggest they can offer you the keys to understanding how a dead person resurrected, then i have no alternative then to say, what a lame thing to do…you know i am not the only person in the world who rejects this claim, you know there could be ppl who are illiterate and say to themselves, “huh, a person resurrected?” and won’t have access to this stupid book you are selling to me…i reject any and all god claims absolutely because….THERE IS NO STANDARD AVAILABLE THAT CAN ESTABLISH WHO AND WHAT THIS IDEA OF GOD IS, BECAUSE IT’S AN IDEA…NOT A FACT….CHUMP

          • M Diaz

            since you can’t qualify the resurrection with observable and objective evidence, then your claims are rejected…
            you see i scrutinize everything with the same standard pal…don’t like it do ya?

          • Alan

            Well then genius scrutinize Luckoo’s book if you dare, and tell me about it.

          • M Diaz

            i don’t need to…dead ppl don’t have conversations with live ppl…everyone knows that chump

          • Alan

            Well then, you are the one who is actually intellectually (and spiritually) dishonest, which proves my original proposition that you are only here to bait and argue. You are happy in your ignorance. Adieu!

          • M Diaz

            “you are happy in your ignorance.”
            that would be you, i went to bible college and studied…you didn’t

            and all you are doing is focusing on this?
            what about all the other objection i posited chump?

          • Alan

            M D I was fully prepared to spend time going through your points of dispute with the Word of God but I am now convinced I would be wasting my time. My heart was to help you find the real God but all you do is carry on like a little girl.
            You make false assumptions and judgements without ceasing and are impervious to anyone’s opinion apart from your own. You are the one who needs a reality check.
            For your information, not only did I go to Bible college, I am an ordained minister and run a training centre on the Thai/Burma border. Should you recover from your conceit and hostility let me know and we may continue. In my opinion you are the chump.

          • M Diaz

            “I was fully prepared to spend time going through your points of dispute with the Word of God but I am now convinced I would be wasting my time”

            it’s alright…christians are quite cowardly when it comes to intellectually honest discourses…and this doesn’t surprise me one bit…

            pssst, to call it the word of god you need to establish that it is…and we both know the only standard that would establish that nonsense would be wishful thinking….sorry, you don’t get to hide behind special pleading, coward

            and as a minister i can see why you are defending your livelihood…how does it feel to lie for a living you pathetic charlatan?

          • M Diaz

            “What alerted me to your error was the lie you told about Paul and thereby the Word of God.”

            he is a charlatan…dead ppl don’t have conversations with ppl who are alive…

            it’s not a lie, you have absolutely no way you can prove he had a conversation with a dead person…and you don’t like that do you…sorry (not really)

            i suppose what gets to you is your god is just to small for me..

            too bad for you that you compare yourself to others and need to demean what ppl have established for themselves ESPECIALLY when what they have decided that any and all god claims from the bible only come from the bible which of course is filled with many inconsistencies…like were there one or two criminals hurling insults at jesus mark says there were two, luke says there was one…and did jesus yell out why have you forsaken me before or after he said “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.”

            there are many many many many other inconsistencies pal…and i was honest with myself enough to acknowledge theses questions…don’t like it…tough

          • Alan

            Will answer you tomorrow. Bed time over here.
            In the meantime can you please tell me about your ‘conversion experience and what caused you to go to Bible college?

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            yet believing a dead guy is “god” is NOT evidence of deep seated problems??
            Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,

          • Alan

            Whatever!! Get over yourself!

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            ^^^BRILLIANT^^^REPLY^^^ABOVE^^^
            ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

          • Alan

            Today’s Christianity is, in some of its’ forms, unrepresentative of True Christianity. True Christianity is humble, meek, loving, not self seeking or demeaning of others. It gives of itself, as did Christ and is a servant and not an overlord, a giver and not a taker.
            This is the message of the Gospels, which is being overshadowed in some quarters by the greed and hypocrisy of some who call themselves Christians. All are not pure as Christ has called us to be and this reflects badly on the whole. In that I agree with you ….Scum.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            then u remain in an ‘all2quiet’ group.
            I remain steadfast: GOD is NOT any religion………………..
            GOD simply is!

          • Alan

            Regressive…. there are plenty of us who try to live God’s/Bible way of love and concern but the media don’t want to report good news, usually only the bad. Jesus is the most wonderful, loving and kind person who has ever walked the face of the earth but because of the ‘religious’ and false experiences of many eg. in certain denominational schools, orphanages etc. He is unjustly given bad press.
            Many religious practices are man made and not God ordained and through them they try to control other people. I am just as disappointed with charlatans as you or anyone would be as I know that their actions cause the true Christ and His message to be blurred.
            The ‘church’ at large has much to answer for but please try and ‘look throught the forest to see the trees’ – even though at times it may be difficult. There are churches and pastors out there who fit the description as they should.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            or cure an amputee!!

          • PropheticExplorer

            Lots of people have had encounters with Jesus. He was dead, risen and ascended by the time Paul became a Christian so Paul never got to meet Him in this world. But you knew that didn’t you?

          • M Diaz

            pssst, dead ppl are dead

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            no he didn’t,,,,,,,,,,,, if he did ROME would’ve chronicled it
            ===================================
            but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what would the most powerful country on earth know; eh???

        • M Diaz

          the gospels were NOT eye witness accounts.
          the names matthew mark luke and john were all added on the later copies… every single bible scholar is in agreement with that FACT.
          are you familiar with the history behind the destruction of the 2nd temple? do you know when that happened? 70AD
          Jesus died 30 AD…the earliest manuscripts that bible scholars have are dated around 70 AD…you see there were Jews who were confused as to why god forsook them by allowing the Romans destroy their temple…and of course ONE of the many ways to reconcile this uncomfortable fact was to come up with reasons…and the rumors about Jesus was one of them.
          Paul was obviously a charlatan, everyone knows you can’t have a conversation with a dead guy…I suppose there was a sense of power Paul felt as he created a community of believers…much in the same sense you see with the mega church pastors of today…

          • PropheticExplorer

            You are just regurgitating bald faced lies at this point. And I have two way conversations with God all the time, and so do all true Christians.

          • M Diaz

            apparently you haven’t done any research and base your opinions on wishful thinking and your pastor…well since i am an adult, i can’t take that seriously…to expect me to value your subjective experience as something as meaningful as an objective experience is nothing short of arrogance…but i’m not surprised..it takes a certain type of person to actually think they are representing an all encompassing authority over everyone…that would be an arrogant person…it’s actually embarrassing for me to be associated to you on a genetic level…

          • PropheticExplorer

            See this is where you show your ignorance. I exert no authority over anyone and neither does any Christian. Nor does any TRUE Christian think they are better than ANYONE else. Paul as a matter of fact called himself the ‘chief of sinners’. Now as far as expecting you to value anything I say, I have no such expectation. My job is to let you know God exists, and let you do with that information as you wish.

            My job is also to warn you that there is a Hell to pay for all sinners who don’t avail themselves of Christ’s forgiveness. I don’t implore you to listen to me, but to find the truth for yourself.

          • M Diaz

            “See this is where you show your ignorance. I exert no authority over anyone and neither does any Christian. ”

            This is when reading comprehension would help your argument…I said you claim to be representing an authority over me…are you going to be that intellectually dishonest that you don’t propose the god in the bible ISN’T the supreme authority…are you gong to be a coward and deny that the bible is a revelation of the supposed supreme authority over me…

            “Nor does any TRUE Christian”

            being that there is no standard that can qualify what a “TRUE” christian is, you are just pronouncing nonsense

            “My job is to let you know God exists”

            the disconnect is astounding…you just said ” I exert no authority over anyone”

            is god an authority yes or no, and with that quote what are you exerting…

            “My job is also to warn you that there is a Hell to pay for all sinners who don’t avail themselves of Christ’s forgiveness. I don’t implore you to listen to me, but to find the truth for yourself.”

            you mean your truth…how dare you suggest that your truth will suffice for me…
            If you can demonstrate for me what makes a christian exceptional I may consider…but being that there isn’t a thing a Christian can do that a non christian cannot, then i will reject your nonsense

          • PropheticExplorer

            “See this is where you show your ignorance. I exert no authority over anyone and neither does any Christian. ”

            This is when reading comprehension would help your argument…I said you claim to be representing an authority over me…are you going to be that intellectually dishonest that you don’t propose the god in the bible ISN’T the supreme authority…are you gong to be a coward and deny that the bible is a revelation of the supposed supreme authority over me…

            Name calling will get you nowhere. You reject God as an authority over you so… God respects our free will, at least while we are in this realm, not so much later. The whole idea of becoming a Christian is to recognize that He can do a better job than we can and to hand over our free will to Him.

            “Nor does any TRUE Christian”

            being that there is no standard that can qualify what a “TRUE” christian is, you are just pronouncing nonsense

            Not at all. The bible the Christian’s supreme authority on spiritual matters, just because you reject it doesn’t remove a smidgen of of it 😉

            “My job is to let you know God exists”

            the disconnect is astounding…you just said ” I exert no authority over anyone”

            That’s right, I don’t. What part of ‘free will’ do you not grasp? If the guy at the supermarket tells you there’s a sale on avocados in aisle three is he exerting authority over you? I’m just the messenger, I don’t get paid by selling salvation like so many subscriptions to Grit magazine, I warn you my job is done. You have a FREE WILL!

            is god an authority yes or no, and with that quote what are you exerting…

            He is my authority and He can be yours too if you submit yourself to Him.

            “My job is also to warn you that there is a Hell to pay for all sinners who don’t avail themselves of Christ’s forgiveness. I don’t implore you to listen to me, but to find the truth for yourself.”

            you mean your truth…how dare you suggest that your truth will suffice for me…

            If you can demonstrate for me what makes a christian exceptional I may consider…but being that there isn’t a thing a Christian can do that a non christian cannot, then i will reject your nonsense

            A Christian is totally indistinguishable from any other sinner except their sins have been forgiven. We don’t become ‘ex sinners’, the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us. We wear His righteousness over our own filthy rags. What can a Christian do that a non Christian cannot? We can go to Heaven, and perhaps more importantly avoid Hell. Whether you choose to believe that is your prerogative. I hope you do. You don’t need a church, you don’t need anything but a contrite heart that recognizes it is sinful by nature.

          • M Diaz

            don’t you know that your entire position relies on special pleading?

            assertions like: “God respects our free will”

            has to be demonstrated in order to be taken seriously…but it would appear that isn’t a concern of yours.

            don’t you know that every person who calls themselves a christian believes they are christians, because they simply believe that they are and follow the bible? and it is this fallible method that has enabled children to die at the hands of their parents who refuse to give them meds, which are available, and opt for faith healing instead…?
            how dare you support a method like that…

          • PropheticExplorer

            You really need to lay off the ‘how dare you’s they make you seem a bit silly, like I can almost see your nostrils flaring.

            And yet again, no. It is not based on ‘special pleading’ it is based on knowledge that is available to you, but you refuse to do what is necessary to obtain it. Again, like my previous example if I tell you it is raining and you say ‘prove it’ and I say Google the Weather Channel and see for yourself and you don’t does that mean it ain’t raining?

            I am telling you that God is real. I have both spoken to Him and heard His voice. You don’t believe it. You say prove it to me, I say prove it for yourself. Once you hear God’s voice your life will never be the same. All you need to do is pray a sincere prayer. “God if you’re real please show yourself to me”. Are you able to do that?

            You have all the information you need now. Good luck to you. I’m not here to convince anyone He is real, I just offer my experience. We all need to find Him for ourselves. FREE WILL, the CHOICE IS YOURS.

            I’ll be sure to pray for you to find the truth, surely you can agree to that?

            Annnd I’m done here 😉

          • M Diaz

            “I can almost see your nostrils flaring.” you see the murder of innocent children bothers me and i wonder why you make light of the fact that you are defending a system that utilizes a fallible method of belief as the source for that sort of murderous behavior…yes how dare you..shame on you for your willful sociopathy…at least the sociopath lacks the ability to empathize, but i have no words to describe my disdain for a willful sociopath that makes light of the fact innocent children are dying because of the very faith they believe in…

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            god spoke to you?
            really?? U truly are delusional

          • InJesusName

            You think you did your research and know so much. You obviously did not. You want facts? You want objective answers? Then keep digging. Coz the science you think is accurate and objective is actually the biggest lie in history. Science books have been manipulated to disprove that this earth we live in has been CREATED. Big Bang Theory? Theory of Evolution? Ha! Those are the biggest lies. And all science books still teach that to this day. You say the bible is manipulating people. Why don’t you do your research about your science books and how they have immensely manipulated every single person in this planet. You think human beings are so wise and knowledgeable we can explain everything. Well then explain why human foot prints have been dug up together with dinosaur foot prints. Why the Chinese language, which is the oldest language of humanity portrays exactly Genesis in the bible, when btw, the bible at that time was not even written yet! Oh I can give you a long list here. Also, why are you so upset with the bible? Is it because you’re scared? That there is something there more powerful than you are? that no matter how much you want to control your life you just really can’t? Or are you scared that one day judgement day could really happen? So you’re researching all these reasons why you should not believe in it. Because you’re scared that just “lying” can bring you to hell. Well bad news bro, no matter what you do you cannot control everything, and no matter what you do, you will lie. EVERY SINGLE HUMAN WILL LIE. EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING WILL SIN. Doesn’t matter if you’re the pope, a priest, a pastor, or a minister, an atheist, or a christian. We will all sin. Which means we CAN all go to hell. Yeah, I reiterate, we all CAN and not all WILL. Coz the only way for a human not to go to hell is by accepting that Jesus’ death on the cross is to save those who believe in Him. If you doubt that, then let your science explain why there are ghosts and spirits lurking around us. Explain why you dream and why your dreams contain what they contain. Explain why you were born a human. Explain what you would be if you weren’t. Can you? You can explain away, but even scientists know that, there are still so many things that cannot be explained. Read about the New World Order, maybe you’ve heard about that. Read about ISIS, about Russia and China. Read about the third world war. Read your news paper. If the bible really isn’t such a big deal and you think people who believe in it are such fools, then why would Satanists even exist, why would the Evolutionist work so hard to cover the truths and the evidences that prove CREATION? You think Christians don’t do their research, well you’re wrong. You only see what you choose to see. Tell you what, I’ve been surrounded by atheists, agnostics, even witches my whole life. I’ve been there. But by being Christian, I can see a lot more clearly how this world works and how we’re all being manipulated to believe God does not exist. Why are CEOs earning millions of dollars and employees are made sure to receive as much as possible minimum wage? Because it was designed that way. We are manipulated to keep busy making a living so we won’t have time to dig on what’s really happening. Every technology we have is designed to manipulate our minds, and to feed our subconscious. Everybody wants to be rich and famous. Everybody wants to have power, to control their lives. Everybody wants their lives to go the way they want it to. That a coincidence? Nah. Cmon. Why don’t you turn on your tv and see for yourself why that is so. You need to see two sides of the coin. Coz real understanding is a two way street my friend. God bless you.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            wow!!
            Gotta love your ( deluded) passion!!!
            (NOTE: IM OK w “GOD”; I abhor religion)
            ,,,,,,,,,,,,,enjoy this:

          • Sandy Riley

            Well, according to your bible, even one lie can land you in hell FOREVER . If this even remotly fair or loving? NO, its rediculously unfair and cruel, but you stand by your god for it. Stupid stupid stupid.

          • Shawn Singer

            Don’t take things out of context. The Bible also says if you accept Christ you will be saved. So why do you latch on to the negative and ignore the positive – because you think it proves your point? God wants no one to go to hell but he gives you the choice, he doesn’t force anyone. When you make the choice to drink and drive, if something bad happens you pay the consequences but unless you have someone who loves you with you no one is going to try and stop you from doing what you know is wrong. Well Jesus is trying to warn you.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            “hell to pay”
            …….says WHOM????

          • Libby Stuart

            YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED!!!!!! i HAVE FORWARDED YOUR COMMENTS TO MANY OF MY CHRISTIAN FRIENDS & SO FAR THEY ARE DISGUSTED & MORTIFIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • M Diaz

            good i’m glad…they should be mortified for being a part of a belief system that is associated with hate and discrimination

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            shouldn’t “prayer” (see: BEGGING) help?

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            yeah,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
            so explain why “god” told several GOP candidates to run for president in 2012
            ==================================
            delusion is thy mantra

          • Jeremy Crockett

            Fortunately you are mistaken. There is no evidence for the assertion that “the names matthew mark luke and john [sic]were all added on the later copies.”.

            I would guess that you are simply repeating what you have heard or read elsewhere.

            As to the rest of your post (with the exception of the destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70AD) is complete conjecture on your part. What you are asserting as fact, is in reality, opinion.

          • M Diaz

            “There is no evidence for the assertion that “the names matthew mark luke and john [sic]were all added on the later copies.”.”

            like i said every single bible scholar will agree that these names were added on later…if you don’t like it, doesn’t mean it isn’t true/ I went to bible college, did you? i studied for the ministry, did you?

            “I would guess that you are simply repeating what you have heard or read elsewhere.”

            yes from bible college…

            “What you are asserting as fact, is in reality, opinion.”

            it’s an educated opinion no less…

          • http://www.CrockettsCabin.com/ Jeremy Crockett

            Reasserting your premise does not make it so. Again; you need to provide evidence for your position otherwise you have not advanced your position.

            You are correct in stating that simply because I do not like something, does not make it false. I never stated otherwise. This is a red herring on your part, thus it is fallacious. So, I will press you again: Your statement that “the names matthew mark luke and john [sic]were all added on the later copies.” is a FALSE statement. Authorship is ascribed to the Gospels, with I believe the exception being that of John. But, your premise is flawed in that (if I am reading you correctly) you believe those ascriptions to be wrong because of what you were told rather than direct examination of the evidence, ie – Greek MSS, etc.

            Next you make a very ham-fisted appeal to authority, namely your own. This, again, is irrelevant to the topic. Being college-educated (even Bible college-educated) has no bearing on the documentary evidence in question. And opinion, no matter the educational level, is still simply that… opinion.

          • M Diaz

            “Again; you need to provide evidence for your position otherwise you have not advanced your position.”

            you are one lazy person…it’s easy to research…

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNn7b_kz9dM

            ” Your statement that “the names matthew mark luke and john [sic]were all added on the later copies.” is a FALSE statement.”

            it isn’t a false statement…get me a quote from any reputable bible scholar that would say the earlier manuscripts of the gospels are the manuscripts that have those names attributed to them…and stop acting like a hypocrite….it’s embarrassing

          • Libby Stuart

            GOD FORGIVE ME BUT…..I REALLY DON”T LIKE YOU OR YOUR WARPED (and I use the term lightly )”EDUCATION” from whatever Bible College you went to. The teachers or professors definitely were not “vetted” strongly enough!!! Can you tell me the name of the Bible College because I definitely don’t want to recommend it to any CHRISTIAN I know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Sandy Riley

            Listen to the video. For petes sake. There are many bible scholars just like him. many are so disillusions after seminary they can’t even preach the gospel anymore. You are in a con game.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            I agree,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
            sending them there might actually enlighten them

          • Libby Stuart

            YOU WENT TO BIBLE COLLEGE????????? OH MY GOODNESS!! Then you know that Jesus states : “No one comes to the Father but by Me” & yet you still almost curse what you studied????????? WOW!!!!! May God forgive you sir or mam (don’t know which). Your educated opinion is rediculous…….you are a very sad individual & again I will pray for you that God sends you a very strong message!

          • M Diaz

            Can you demonstrate how Jesus is relevant to me?

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            enjoy this —Jeremy
            this is the closest anyone gets to so-called teachings of jesus

          • LordOfTheSun

            M Diaz, (My Dad is a Hindu priest and my mom has a catholic background. My sister raised me ever since I was a child till I was 19 yrs of age. and I was never influenced by any religion since I lived with my sister.)
            After highschool, I was living in an apartment and my mom was living with me. For many years I went to work full time and part time school for computer engineering from the age of 18 – 23. I got tired of doing the same thing over and over again from day to day. I was remembering when I was a teen that I used to look up at the stars and wonder how they were made that way. Of course scientifically, gases form and explode but why does it? It only pursues more questioning even to the fact that the earth was made spherical, but why? Why couldn’t be a pyramid like shape or cube. I continued to ask more questions like why was the grass green? Scientifically, “chlorophyll is a green pigment found in most plants, algae, and cyanobacteria. Its name is derived from Greek: χλωρός ( chloros “green”) and φύλλον ( phyllon “leaf”). Chlorophyll absorbs light most strongly in the blue and red but poorly in the green portions of the electromagnetic spectrum, hence the green colour of chlorophyll-containing tissues like plant leaves. But why the spectrum?” Why that particular process?” Why not something else? So those were the questions I asked. I was 23 years old, and I looked up at the ceiling out of the curiosity of my heart and asked one night and said I don’t know if you are real or, invisible or whatever, but I want to meet someone that has the same interests in me, like video games, or some sports, anime..stuff like that. And then I took an acting class and near the ending of the acting class I met a girl, and she had a boyfriend. I didn’t care and just wanted to be friends. The first time we spoke to each other, everything was on point about what I talked to HIM about. She was interested in the certain sports I liked, anime, video games. After hanging out for awhile. She started talking to me about the bible, in revelations. It sounded interesting, but I didn’t care too much. We finally got to her house and she gave me the bible and I went home. That night I woke up in the morning at 4:11am. The next morning I woke up at 4:11am again, and then again at 4:11am in the morning. I said, Why do I keep waking up at 4:11am. Out of curiosity, I opened the ESV bible she gave me that was next to me, and I opened it to pages 411. I didn’t know the verses or chapters or anything at all. And it talked about this guy named Jehoahaz who is King of Judah and reigned over his kingdom for 3 months, but another king came and taxed his people and threw Jehoahaz in jail and jehoahaz was 23 years old. And I was 23 years old. How was it, that I spoke to God about meeting someone with the same interests as me? and then I meet her, and then she tells me about a portion of the bible, I get the bible, i wake up at 4:11am 3 times. I looked at the bible pages 411 and see this guy Jehoahaz King of Judah was 23 years old same age as me. How was all of that a coincidence all at once? There is no way I would have been able to articulate in that form whatsoever for God to lead me to His word after I spoke to Him initially. I could have spoken to any girl, anyone with different interests or possibly the same without a bible, but I didn’t. I could have ignored the times that I woke up, but I didn’t, and I could have rejected the bible she gave me, but I didn’t. God could’ve shown me Hindi text, or any other but He showed me this Bible. I have tons of stories after that, and many interesting things that really changed my life and helped me believe even more. And this is without being influenced by any religion, pastors, priest. etc.

            Since I never had any influences by churches, or pastors or any other religion, my mind and heart was not clouded by bitterness towards God or a blind love for God. I never knew if God existed, I was neither atheist or a believer. The evidence comes down to you as a person experiencing the things that God shows you. I’m sorry if you ever had any bad experiences in your life time with churches. But I can understand there are some bad churches and bad pastors out there and you cannot fully trust all of them. But God has to show you, not them. I don’t believe a lot of pastors and churches out there. Forgive them for some of them don’t know what they do. But when God shows you Himself, it becomes a whole different understanding of life. I can only hope that you see it yourself without any other influences in your life. I’ll pray for you and if you have any issues in life that you are dealing with, I will pray for you on those as well.

          • M Diaz

            thats nice…
            apparently you are so full of yourself that you actually thought i would read your biography?

          • LordOfTheSun

            There’s no need to make fun of me. I was trying to reason with you in a mature conversation hoping you would at least make an effort to understand. I appreciate you at least taking some time to respond. If you need any prayer in your life let me know.

          • M Diaz

            yes there is ample reason to make fun of you…your appeal to your subjective experiences will never take priority over mine…
            get over yourself…bu bye

          • LordOfTheSun

            Thank you for responding again. I appreciate you reading my response. I hope things go great in your life and hope all things work according to how God works in your life as well. I hope you can see for yourself one day. In Jesus name. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjstnrQL7jY

          • M Diaz

            whatever makes you feel better i suppose

          • Alan Clark Jr.

            He cared enough about you to share his personal testimony with you and you slapped him across the face. Nice. Why are you so hateful? Did your house get cleaned out, but then more demons came in worse than the first? Or are you just stony ground and the Gospel fell on you, but it could not take root and when heat came it withered and died? How sad….you have potential if you truly repent. Looks like you just went through all the motions the first time.

          • LordOfTheSun

            It’s ok Alan don’t worry about it. Jesus was spit on, beatin, and crucified. Even though, Jesus was rejected, He still loved and accepted them as they were regardless as he was being put on the cross, which is why He said Father forgive them for they know know what they do. If you are persecuted, know that they persecuted Jesus, and if they hate you know that they hated Jesus too. God rains on the just and the unjust.

          • Sandy Riley

            There is lot of actual reasons that quite possibly Jesus never even exeisted. You can reseach it on you tube in several places. Just do a word search. I onlyu ask that you educate yourself with information other than the bible. You can’t just beleive the bible becase the bible says to. It makes no sense to do that.

          • LordOfTheSun

            Here’s the problems Sandy. If you read my biography above that I posted to M Diaz, There was no pastor or preacher involved in my testimony. There was no church. I was in my room when I found God, and I asked God specifically myself without the bible. The bible was presented to me by a person that I asked God to specifically show me before I even knew this person. The question I have is why would this God show me the bible and not vedic scriptures from the Hindu religion? Or why not the Koran, Taoism, Buddhism? I had many events specifically from God even after that which God Himself proved to me without churches, and pastors. I didn’t start going to church till 2007 and stopped going to church in 2009 because I saw a lot of these churches and pastors were not following the God that I have seen on my own. Even some Christians try to convince me otherwise which makes no sense to me. Other Christians who have seen this on their own without traditional or vain theological religious understanding relate exactly through the experiences I have gone through. I don’t believe the bible just because. I saw something for myself that led me to that direction and that something was unexplainable which was God. Of course it’s not going to make sense to you and many others who don’t believe because it did not to me until I continued to research whatever the phenomenal event was that happened. It was intriguing but it changed me by itself without interference of any person or ideology.

          • Sandy Riley

            But your idea of god if you live in america, is based on the christian bible. Doch you really think a disobedient child should be stoned? Do you really think a person that tells one lie deserves ETERNAL torment in hell? Do you? I can’t believe you do, yet your bible tells you this is true.
            Do you really think that a town full of people about to be wiped off the map, is not full of people pleading to god for help? If half of them live, they are a praising god. BUt nobody looks at the half that have died. He wins only by default.
            The sad truth is, if a hundred people pray for something. one third will get the answere they want, one third will get it someday and one third will never half that pray answered at all. The same odd if you pray to a tree. You just think you are his special angel and you have never been on the losing side yet.
            Besides, if he already knows whats going to happen to you and everyone else. Why bother to pray at all. its allready set in stone. So go ahead and feel all holy and happy but I for one like to live in reality.

          • LordOfTheSun

            I never had any precept about God when I found God in the beginning. I never had any religious influences to begin with. I was just a man going to work full-time, going to school, living how everyone else lives. I had no idea that God existed or didn’t exist. There was no precept or understanding, but I heard people talk about him as if he did so I questioned philosophically on my own without cultural influences involved. It doesn’t matter whether I live in america or not. There are all forms of religions in america. My family in majority is Hindu and My Dad is a Hindu priest. He never influenced me either. The intriguing part is when God actually answered specifically what I asked for because I was curious and did not know. It had nothing to do with material things, or selfishness. And when he did answer it became something more than what I thought. For example. When the economy went down in 2008, company’s were merging, gas prices rose. I worked at a rental company during that time, and since the company was not making enough money through sales, customers did not want to rent full size cars and wanted economical cars……

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            allow me to help powerfully and simply:
            GOD???? YES !!!!
            (all) RELIGION(s)??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

          • lynn

            I have heard lots of folks tell their experience of being saved at home. I have wondered several times why God chose to save them there rather than church. Perhaps it is because many want to steal some of Gods glory by claiming that there some of the reason for the souls being saved. I know of a pastor many years ago that was building an alter in his yard that said every rock he used represented someone who he had gotten saved. Some how that didn’t hit just right to me. When God saves someone we should give him all the glory. I enjoyed your testamony. I believe it is real.
            God bless.

          • LordOfTheSun
          • Brien

            So you deluded yourself – big deal – many do just that.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            then explain why stalin and mao died peacefully—and wealthy and powerful– in their sleep-the BIGGEST mass murderers of ALL TIME
            ( note : I don’t buy the BS of “afterlife” so don’t lay that VOODOO BS on me in your answer)

          • LordOfTheSun

            Thank you for your reply. What does that have to do with what I said in the statement above? I’m aware of what you are saying but it seems you are offended and only reply by what you feel.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            “god rains on the just and the unjust”
            colloquially expressed that can be interpreted as ‘god’ gets the bad guys ; they never escape–
            I differ with that as many demonic humans seem to get away with murder

          • LordOfTheSun

            How did you come to the conclusion of that definition?

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            tell me what it means then….

          • LordOfTheSun

            lol, I like your sarcastic remarks. You’re funny bro. But aside from the humor, why do you believe what you believe?

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            I believe “god” cannot be defined as “god” is too big to be hemmed in VIS A VIS ‘defining’ by a finite organism such as man
            =====================================
            those who claim knowledge OF said definition are to be avoided

          • M Diaz

            he cared enough about himself to assume his personal testimony would be meaningful to me regarding an objective claim…it’s nothing short of arrogance to expect ones personal testimony would carry ANY weight with matters of objective claims….if he truly cared he would provide a demonstration I could relate to OBJECTIVELY ..what he relied on was special pleading, a logical fallacy based on his own sense of self importance…

            “Nice. Why are you so hateful?”

            lets just say i don’t tolerate the intolerance of Christianity as it is associated with discrimination and hate…but beyond that
            why don’t you read matthew 5:10-11 and suck it up like a good christian…

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            perhaps we do not care for your erroneous superstition???

          • Brien

            “He”? Who is ‘he”?
            There is actually no objective proof by any contemporary historians or writers from that time period that anyone named Jesus existed.

          • Shawn Singer

            Wrong – Historians do not even question that Jesus existed. They may not agree that he is who he said he was but they all agree he existed

          • Alan Clark Jr.

            So your saying your subjective experience trumps his? The fact that you have chosen unbelief is the very proof of God’s existance. He gave you freedom of choice.

          • M Diaz

            “So your saying your subjective experience trumps his? ”

            for myself, absolutely!

            “The fact that you have chosen unbelief is the very proof of God’s existance. He gave you freedom of choice.”

            first you need to demonstrate that god gives free will in order to make that claim, can you demonstrate that with verifiable and objective evidence?

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            read many of my replies to these stultified religious lemmings
            ====================================
            Ive got your back,,,,its fun to annihilate them with logic and facts

          • lynn

            Why are you here if you have no intention of believing? Looks to me like you are troubled over your non-belief and need someone to talk to. Real athiest tend to avoid all religions, and especially Christians, unless of course they just wan’t to cause trouble. I assure you that there is no possible was you can get a true believer in Jesus Christ to renounce their faith. If that is what you are up to, you are wasting your time.You need to get a life. I should say a new life, and that in Christ Jesus.

          • M Diaz

            “Looks to me like you are troubled over your non-belief and need someone to talk to.”

            actually you sort of have that right, i am troubled by ppl who are claiming to be representing an all encompassing authority which serves to give license to behave like sociopaths, so yes i am troubled but for humanistic reasons, does that bother you?

            “You need to get a life”

            cute…why dont you read matthew 5:10-11 and suck it up like good christian should cupcake

          • Jenji Morgan

            I think you’ve mistaken “real” atheists of the past who were actually too outnumbered to stand up against the lunacy because of social scorn, for the next generation of atheists who seek out and expose the absurd claims of the cult mentality. Sorry Lynn. No more free ride. We’re onto you and your cult and we are not backing down. We even get together and discuss the absurd things we read and we point out absurdity to each other. No one here is on the fence. We just can’t be shut down and shut up or forced to keep to ourselves. You really are deceived. And you are SO wrong. We’re surrounded by “true” believers who woke up and realized the absurdity of a belief system they inherited.

          • Brien

            ‘We’ are here to try to tell you to provide your proof/evidence for your god(s)!
            We are fed up with raves and rants about things which cannot, under any logic, possibly exist!

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            allow this then,,,,,,,,,,,,

          • Brien

            That sort of circular logic is insulting even to grade school students.

          • Libby Stuart

            Horrible, horrible person. May God forgive you sir or mam, I can’t tell which you are.

          • M Diaz

            read matthew 5:10-11 and suck it up like a good christian should
            i’m just here keeping you honest…and you honestly have a serious problem with your faith assuming your god is relying on this silly post…yeah, you think an awful lot about yourself don’tcha?

          • Libby Stuart

            No sir, actually I do not. I am nothing but a female human. I have not been judging you, only trying to understand why you “creep” on a Christian website only to critique & demean those of Christian Faith. Do you do this to those who are Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist, Mormon, Jehovah’s Witness etc.????? If you don’t agree, why not remove yourself from this website instead of demean those of us who do have the faith in GOD & JESUS CHRIST???? You don’t bother us, we wont’ bother you…it’s that simple.

          • M Diaz

            “I am nothing but a female human.”
            nope you demoted yourself to be a christian when you decided to become one… now suck it up like your Jesus told you to

            ” You don’t bother us, we wont’ bother you”

            you obviously live in a cave
            are you aware that christians have been undermining human rights? makes sense since you no longer are human, being a christian and all…

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            of course (s)hes horrible…………..
            ……..because of disagreeing with your VOODOO

          • Libby Stuart

            I have only one question for you….WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE YOU & M DIAZ “CREEP” ON A CHRISTIAN WEBSITE???????????????? Answer: Only to critique people of faith….no more or no less.

          • Alan Clark Jr.

            Don’t cast your pearls before swine. Diaz is a vessel fitted for destruction. His conscience is seared.

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            sounds like U don’t have much FAITH in your “faith”; as if u did u would NOT care what anyone else said or thought
            ===================================

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            actually making fun of religious idiots IS a “need”
            ===================================
            especially when the religion ( see: superstition) is attempting to FORCE itself into the lives of most americans who don’t care.,………. through regressive white trash GOP legislation

          • Brien

            Yes, there is a great need to mock, ridicule and make fun of people and groups which lie and delude themselves; but more importantly to block them when they enter the public sphere with these man made lies.
            Bring along proof in order to have a mature conversation, otherwise the default position is that you are preaching lies.
            BTW, your arrogant prayers are taken as an insult by logical rational people, so stop saying these silly things.

          • LordOfTheSun
          • Libby Stuart

            You are a very rude, self absorbed person M Diaz. Like LordOfTheSun, I will pray for your soul. The stupidity of those who throw everything into explainable or non-explainable science is extremely narrow minded & sad. FAITH IN GOD & HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE A WONDERFUL LIFE AFTER DEATH. I would say your comments are a gross misrepresentation however, that would only be me trying to be nice about your horrible, scary views.

          • M Diaz

            no, what is self absorbed is assuming your belief system comes from the supreme being of the universe…what are overcompensating for?

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            narrow minded???
            you myopic lemmings “think” some dead guy who U know SEVEN(7) PCT% of his life—at best— is ”god’???
            really??? 93% of JE$U$ life has NO chronicling; yet you cretins “beeeeleeeve” he is god??
            why? your BOOK of VOODOO is fraught with mistakes
            oh,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and ( below) this—

          • Mary Petrie

            Libby, your cynicism is so sad. If you believed that a killer gas leak is happening in a building and that the building will blow up would you stand there and warn people or would you step back and see how many go inside or just walk away and not care. I like LordOfTheSun believe with our whole heart what will happen to those who do not chose Jesus Christ is a horrible after life. So would we want to save people from Hell or say “you are on your own” I can’t do that. God put extra love in my heart to hope everyone will get to Heaven because everyone is invited and everyone is loved by God. I do hope you wouldn’t want me to turn my back on you if you were going to have a terrible end. What makes the difference if we are right or wrong? It is still out of love and I know I don’t look down on those that don’t want what I am experiencing and I don’t judge others for their beliefs. I do like the love I experience for people rather than being cynical about what they believe. May God Bless You.

          • Brien

            We need your proof; or it all remains a lie!

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            how the F*CK does any of the ^^^written mussitation^^^ above lay claim the JEEEE$U$ is “god”????

          • Mary Petrie

            Amen! Until someone walks in your shoes (and mine) they will find it difficult to understand the new life we have with Jesus Christ! Your story took my breath away as I know the experience. Just because there are some people who call themselves Christian does not mean they are and then there are some Christians who do not know what it means to submit to His spirit working in them and giving new life. God does answer when anyone calls out to Him; however, it is in His timing and His way.

          • Libby Stuart

            Again, you leave me speechless…….you are definitely not a person of faith. I really wish you would just shut your evil spewing pie hole. Instead of a “Child of God” your words say you are a child of science & misinterpreted theology. Prayers for you M Diaz

          • M Diaz

            so much for good christians being meek and humble and turning the other cheek…you seem to be like a typical convenient christian who thinks hostility is ok when your belief system is challenged…where or where is your faith…read your buybull and suck it up like a good christian, of course i didn’t write Matthew 5:10-11 Jesus said those things…so are you a good christian or are you a bad christian?

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            prayers???

        • yellowdogdemocrat

          The Gospels were in no way eyewitness accounts. They were written many years after the death of your non-existent Jesus;

          http://www.bc.edu/schools/stm/c21online/resources/birthofjesus/intro/the_dating_of_thegospels.html

          • Eric Veritas Blair

            Actually, the gospels were indeed eyewitness accounts. By your tortured logic anything written after someone has died is a forgery. Oh, and care to explain exactly how a non-existent person dies? Thanks for the laugh!

          • yellowdogdemocrat

            Kinda hard to bear witness to an act if the actor has been dead for 40 years(Mark was written in AD. 70). You need to learn the definition of the words you use.

            To accuse an Atheist of “tortured logic”, when Xtians are famous(infamous)for saying outright LIES is hilarious.

            Ok I’ll give you that one. I have edited the post to reflect the better understanding.

          • Eric Veritas Blair

            That’s the sad thing about Atheists. They mock others for worshiping a non-existent God, then argue relentlessly the minutiae of said mythical beliefs. It would be akin to arguing the existence of Mickey Mouse using the testimony of Minnie :o)

            The only thing funnier than believing in those you call mythical people is your raging over people what others believe. If that isn’t tortured logic then there is no such thing. 🙂

            And for God’s sake, learn the difference between when a writing was first compiled and when it was actually first written. Just because a dictionary is updated every year we don’t consider every definition within to be new.

          • Eric Veritas Blair

            He obviously wrote it when he was alive genius.

          • yellowdogdemocrat

            I should have been clearer in my words. What I meant to say is the timelines of jesus and Mark do not coincide. The gospel of Mark was written 40-50 years after jesus supposedly died so it was not an eyewitness account of anything jesus did.

          • Eric Veritas Blair

            If you had actually read it you would see it was an eyewitness account.

          • yellowdogdemocrat

            The person you know as jesus never existed so none of the gospels can be eyewitness accounts.

          • Eric Veritas Blair

            Not true. Only Atheist fools take such a ridiculous stance against Jesus as a historical figure.

        • yellowdogdemocrat

          The gospels are NOT eyewitness accounts. They were written long after your non-existent jesus was claimed to have lived;

          http://www.bc.edu/schools/stm/c21online/resources/birthofjesus/intro/the_dating_of_thegospels.html

          • Eric Veritas Blair

            Keep repeating it, still ain’t true 😉

        • Brien

          The gospels are still just hearsay, gossip from personal letters from the loyal faithful; without a scrap of true evidence from objective sources.

        • Brien

          The gospels are all hearsay gossip.

      • Libby Stuart

        Oh good grief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I honestly feel sorrow in my heart for critical folks like you M Diaz :(. I stopped argueing with people like you a long time ago & just pray for your soul. Thoughts like yours are so sad & when you stand before the “Great White Throne” judgement it will be to late for you to realize you were so completely wrong. 🙁 Faith & science DO NOT go hand in hand………………..

        • M Diaz

          You stopped arguing with ppl like me as YOU hit the reply button at least 8 different times when you were NOT a part of the discourse…?!? Wow, you must be really delusional…you poor poor sap

          • Libby Stuart

            You are correct sir or mam (still don’t know). I allowed my anger over your comments to get to me. I apologize. I should know better than to argue with folks who believe like you do in the first place. 🙁 🙁 Have a nice life

          • M Diaz

            yea, keep your head in the sand…listen to things that don’t make you think…and especially stay away from social media where you may read something that pulls on your critical thinking skills, curiosity and the consistent way you rationalize claims…

          • Libby Stuart

            Wow! I didn’t expect that response. smh Still being critical. I said I was sorry & you continue to bash me. That’s ok. I will always believe in Jesus Christ no matter how ignorant you may think I am.

          • M Diaz

            didn’t you just say ” I should know better than to argue with folks who believe like you do in the first place.”???
            then stop hitting the reply button, unless you think your experience is something you think will inspire me…get over yourself.

        • Sandy Riley

          News for you libby, when your brain is dust, your done. Period. I know harsh reality is painful to you, but this life is the only one you get. Its nice to think of a wonderful heaven where god loves you best, but its not going to happen. You can pretend though.

      • lynn

        You have made your choice. I have no problem with how you choose. As for me, it is my personal conviction and belief that the bible is true, and Jesus lives. I know that He lives in my heart. But until you have been quickened or made alive spiritually, you most certainly will not believe on Jesus Christ to the saving of your immortal soul. Either believe the gospel anvd repent, or die in your sins. It’s as simple as that.

        • M Diaz

          “But until you have been quickened or made alive spiritually”
          how does that work exactly?

    • penny0314

      After 15 years, being “born again” (although there is NO SUCH word/phrase in the original Greek), much study and 3 years of Greek, I walked away from Christianity. I’ve never looked back. And, I’ve had infinitely more peace since I walked away. There is virtually no historical evidence that Jesus even existed in the flesh. Whole chunks of the Gospel can be found, virtually word for word, in the ancient Egyptian books of mystery religion. There are 16 figures in history that fit the same pattern–born of a virgin, worked miracles, raised the dead, suffered, died and resurrected on the 3rd day. I am not bashing my open mind into the closed hole of Christianity (or Islam, for that matter). If your belief in Jesus brings you peace, I am happy for you. Please don’t try to force it down my throat–I’ve read the NT in the original.

      • PropheticExplorer

        It’s two words genius, gennaō and anōthen. One means born, the other again. The other laughable nonsense you blather isn’t even worth refutin. And you call out the bible for not being factual LULZ

        • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

          hey genius,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
          explain this ( below) to me

          • PropheticExplorer

            Sure. It is based on tortured reasoning and specious knowledge with a few bald faced lies thrown in for good measure.

            The textus receptus is actually the text that the King James version is based upon, and based upon many, many agreeing manuscripts. There is another text from Alexandria that is a forgery and only has a very few supporting copies. The idea that there are 8,000 different texts is so laughable that it is not worth commenting on, a completely fabricated myth.

            Then you have the idea being bandied about that older means more accurate, wholly based on specious assumption that people make mistakes when they copy things and they degrade like some sort of written version of the “Telephone” game. Not true in this case.

            Now the KJV has elements of the Geneva, Great Bible, Tyndale and Bishop’s bible which were earlier attempts to translate the Word of God into English from the underlying TR texts. It builds upon the others and completes their goals.

            Now as far as the multitudes of modern bibles out there, all but one are based on the rejected Alexandrian texts instead of the Antioch. The reason the King James is so regarded is because although it is based on the texts for which the majority of texts are it hasn’t been translated since 1611 into any version of wide release.

        • penny0314

          It is NOT two words in the Greek, it’s one. The word translated as “born again” is anagenao, which means “conceived again”, a radically different meaning than “born again”. You have resorted to name calling, which I’ve never done with you, which is a form of ad hominem fallacy. The ad hominem fallacy is sometimes used by those who have run out of logical arguments. Now, one other question. Please show me where I said I actually believed the Egyptian mystery writings? You are assuming facts not in evidence. That is another fallacy. PropheticExplorer, I am glad you seem to be happy with your beliefs, and I am not interested in changing them. However, if you wish to serve as a witness, first be ready to give an answer for the hope that is in you. That doesn’t include name calling or fuzzy logic. It means dealing with others in a respectful, intelligent way. Slamming others and making up facts not in evidence do not accomplish this.

          • PropheticExplorer

            No, I gave you the two underlying Greek words. You are probably using the corrupted Alexandrian text. Here it is for you:

            q «
            απεκριθη ο ιησους και ειπεν αυτω αμην αμην λεγω σοι εαν μη τις γεννηθη ανωθεν ου δυναται ιδειν
            την βασιλειαν του
            θεου

          • penny0314

            You are right and I was wrong on that point. What you’ve given is indeed the rendering in both the UBS and the 1611 versions. My apologies. Hats off to you as well for being able to get the Greek text on your computer! It certainly helped. Now, please tell me where I allegedly said I believed the Egyptian mystery writings and we’ll be square.

          • PropheticExplorer

            Well perhaps since you were wrong about ‘born again’ perhaps you should try exercising your Greek skills using the uncorrupted TR texts. Many have been pushed away from scriptural truth by the plethora of modern versions out there today.

            As far as getting the Greek, I just copied and pasted it from my bible software 😉

      • Sandy Riley

        Same here. Twenty years or so fundimentalist. I am so amazed I was so taken. Of course people that are deep into the lie, will all respond that we weren’t REALLY saved. No its just that we just never really studied anything but the bible and that is no way to really know how much of a brain washing it gives you. They just think thats only for the other religions.

        • penny0314

          Hang in there, Sandy. Recovery takes time. I’ve worked with a number of people recovering from Catholicism or fundagelicalism. I found infinitely more peace after I left Christianity than before. Seriously, read Tom Harpur’s The Pagan Christ, which I found wonderfully helpful. He wrote 2 books by this title–read the older one. My very best to you. I now go to a Unitarian Universalist church, which has no doctrine but much love and community, and an orientation to social justice. Wish I had found it years ago.

          • Sandy Riley

            Thanks so much!

    • zunelander

      This is Jesus, basically, saying, “Because of me, everyone shall live!” Because, in Adam, everyone died. Despite everyone living, punishments will take place for the disobedient, which are those who do not do what the Law says to do, which is to treat others in the same way they would want to be treated by loving others as self via altruism, benevolence, and loving kindness. This is why those the text referring to those who cast out demons and prophesy in his name are met wit the words, “Depart, I never knew you!” because they were no doers of what really mattered: loving thy neighbor as thyself via altruism, benevolence, and loving kindness.

      It’s the words of Jesus that also answered the man asking, “What must I do to inherit life?” Did Jesus say, “Become a Christian?” No. He said, basically, what my first paragraph says. Acts of loving kindness towards your fellow man saves you from the punishment because it’s obedience to the Law (Romans 2:13). No one is saved by Works, but Works are not defined as ‘acts’ or ‘things people do to earn salvation’. Works referred to certain commandments in the law of Moses that Jews believed had to be done to be justified before God. Those Works are the Works no one is saved by. However, the acts of loving kindness towards your neighbor are what Jesus himself says one must do to avoid punishment in the age to come. That is why his reply in Matthew 19:16-19 says what is says. All shall live (1 Corinthians 15:22), but for those who do not obey and love others as self, punishment will happen before being reconciled back to God. After all, God is love. Anyone who loves is of God and God is in him (1 John 4:7-8). He who says he loves God, but hates his brother, is a liar (1 John 4:20-21). Love for others as self is extremely important because it is the Law (Roman 2:13) and it keeps a soul from punishment due to obedience. This is not a Christian thing. It’s a God thing for all of humanity. God is not a Christian.

      Just my opinion, of course/

      • Sandy Riley

        I just wonder why, if God wants undying love and devotion, why not just create us all in heaven to begin with, why all this pain and suffering, sans children with cancer, tornados that wipe out whole town believers and unbelivers as well.? Why disfiguring and and pain racking conditions that have nothing to do with how good or bad a person is? No sane person would do that to antother, but our loving father in heaven seems to have no issue with it, so he is obviously not as compasionate as he expects us to be. kinda looses me here. The religion makes no sense on any levle.

        • zunelander

          Hi, Sandy. I don’t have all of the answers, but here’s my take: We are all spirits having a human experience. The things we experience in this world can be good and also can be bad. The bible says, the sun shines and the rain falls on us all. That is to say, no one is really exempt from the good and bad things of life. And, yes, some of us go through more than others and some less than others. To some degree, we have control. To another degree, we do not have control.

          God is not going to magically prevent bad things from happening to one person, let alone everyone, just for the sake of stopping bad things from happening. I think, part of the human experience is to experience whatever life brings about. That is one reason for being here in this world. Unfortunately, life dishes out good and bad, not just good. If life were all good, many things would not be learned by a person whose life was all candy and roses, without any tribulations. A person can learn a lot about themselves when hard times come about.

          From my own personal point of view, everyone is reconciled back to God in the end. So, what we understand as death here on earth is really one step closer to a life without all the bad things that have been experienced here on earth. Death on earth is not the end, although some think it is. When a loved one dies, it’s a sad heart wrenching thing to go through, but the good news is, it’s not the end. Again, this is my view based on my faith.

          Of course, God has issue with things that are unloving and hurtful, but for whatever reason, we have to experience how it is to live on earth, until we are reconciled back to our Creator. The big picture is no matter what we go through here, in the end, it all will be no more. That is because God is extremely compassionate and has made it so that in the end, no one dies. We were created in love, by Love, and will be reconciled back to Love itself after having lived whatever kind of life here on earth that we have led.

          God is like a parent, but much more wise and all knowing. Human parents chastise and raise their children as best as they can, but they are not infallible. Some humans equate their own parenting to how God would parent. Some are blind to their own view that a God that prepares a place called hell for eternal torment is okay, while they are opposed to a human parent on the news that has locked their child up in a closet with no food, intending his punishment to be until he dies. Both scenarios are very similar, yet some humans are fine with a place called hell where bad people go to be punished without end and, at the same time, they are not fine with a human parent that treats their child much like a person put in hell.

          I don’t know what you believe in. Whatever it is, I hope it incorporates loving others as self and treating others as you would want to be treated. This concept is not a Christian thing, it’s a God thing, in my opinion.

    • lynn

      Amen!

    • lynn

      Amen!

  • Jack Rohde

    Amen Dale tells the truth!

  • Gary

    Go Darrell. The truth offends a lot of people, but tell it anyway.

  • Derek

    Do you think God is so petty as to damn most of the world to hell because they were not born into a Christian Family? There are many paths to God and Christianity is but one. Not the modern church that calls itself Christianity, but the teachings of Christ. Be a good person and leave the world and your fellow man better for you having been there. There are many Christians who are going to hell and many Atheist that will live on in Heaven.

    • John_33

      I was born into a Christian family, but I was not a Christian until I was born again. There are stories of Muslim men and women in Afghanistan and elsewhere who had dreams of Jesus and went on to find Him. It’s not where you are born. It’s whether you are willing to give your all for God.

      • Fundisi

        I appreciate what you said John, but it has nothing to do with giving our all for God – it is by His Mercy only, not one good man will be in heaven, not one because they gave their lives to live for God, the only ones there will get there by the blood of Christ.

        • John_33

          No, you’re right. I was only referring to repentance and belief in God, seeking Him with our whole heart in sincerity and truth. All the credit for our salvation is to God.

    • Fundisi

      Many paths to God is universalism, it is anti-Christ. There is only way way, a narrow way and it is through Christ alone and by God’s Grace.

      God said there is no one good, no not one, so being a good person is an illusion from hell.

      No atheist will gain heaven and if one is truly born again of Christ, they will absolutely go to heaven and in Spirit are already seated there with Christ. None by being good, all are sinners, all are washed in the blood of Christ, all their sins forgiven.

    • Gary

      Wow. Well, at least we know you did not get that out of the Bible.

    • hapy_thoughts

      The short answer Derek is yes. They do think god is that petty

      • BarkingDawg

        God is Number 43?

    • mazzie54az

      being a Christian has nothing to do with being born into a Christian family every individual needs to come to Christ on his own no matter how they were raised the Bible is clear Jesus is the way the truth and the life and no one no man no woman nobody comes to the Father God except through Jesus Christ our Lord we didn’t make that up it’s in the Bible and anyone who does not receive and believe in Jesus Christ into their lives as their own personal Savior will not enter into the kingdom of God no matter what

    • James Grimes

      Rubbish.

  • Diane Schultz

    Great article! However, “lord” and “savior” need to both be capitalized as they are proper nouns, and especially lord when it is referring to Jesus is capitalized in the Scriptures. Sorry to be a grammar geek, but I’m a legal assistant who does a lot of proofreading and this kind of thing just drives me nuts.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      Thanks, sister. I am an ESL, but I do care for God’s pronouns, too. This is one of the most important and blessed aspects of the English language. Others do not matter much comparing to God’s pronouns.

  • Jenji Morgan

    Disgusting.

  • Andy_Kreiss

    They said I was brash, ruthless, pushy, cocky, conceited, aloof, boastful, arrogant and just downright annoying,”

    He said, as he used the opportunity of a prayer breakfast to tell everybody that he knows the truth, and anybody that doesn’t agree with him will be tortured for eternity. I’d add, divisive, elitist, and not very self-aware to that list of adjectives that people have assigned to him. He doesn’t seem to have learned a thing.

    • mazzie54az

      yeah well Jesus was called many things too but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t speaking the truth

      • Andy_Kreiss

        I have no idea what point you’re trying to make here.

        • James Grimes

          Proverbs 26 : 4. Read it because it tells how Christians here view you.

          • Andy_Kreiss

            Oh, OK, so I’m a fool, AND I deserve an eternity of punishment. Was there anything specific that I wrote that you consider foolish, or is it just disagreeing with your opinions that makes me so horrible?

          • James Grimes

            As far as eternal punishment, that’s up to God. As far what you had written, save it for another site where they will think you are enlightened. You won’t get that here on a Christian site. What you post is rubbish.

          • Andy_Kreiss

            Good. So you agree that the NASCAR guy was pretty out of line in telling anybody who doesn’t agree with him that they’re going to hell. By your own admission, that’s for God to decide.

            I’ll bring the truth to anyplace that I’m not censored. People can try to refute it, or just call it rubbish if they can’t scrap together a rational argument.

          • Gary

            God has already decided who will go to Hell. It is written in the Bible.

          • Andy_Kreiss

            Not exactly an unbiased source. Even without some race ar driver pretending to play God.

          • SheepToSlaughter

            Why take such offense to mere words and ideas? I agree with Waltrip, but if the situation were reversed, and let’s say an Imam was speaking about Islam being the only way to spare oneself of hell and damnation, my response would be indifference and disbelief. That you would be bothered so much by his words seems to indicate a level of insecurity. Hopefully you sense the Truth in his words and seek Jesus as a result.

          • SheepToSlaughter

            If Waltrip sincerely believes what he said, would it not be hateful and selfish to keep it to himself? Wouldn’t the most loving thing he could do be to share the Good News in hopes of sparing as many people as is possible?

            And if you disagree with what he said? No harm done, simply disregard it (at your own peril). Just know he shared what he did not to be hateful, but out of love. He simply shared what he believed to be true; there is no coercion or hate involved.

          • Andy_Kreiss

            I understand people having passionately held opinions, and feeling the need to voice them. It’s just that

            A) Christianity has been the dominant religion on our country for a long time. It’s unlikely that anybody in that audience was unaware of it. He wasn’t sharing good news , he was telling anybody that disagreed with him that they’re wrong.

            B) There’s nothing hateful or selfish about keeping opinions that denigrate others to oneself.

            No, no harm done, I was only having a laugh at his pretending he’d grown into a less arrogant person through his faith.

          • SheepToSlaughter

            “Oh, OK, so I’m a fool, AND I deserve an eternity of punishment.”

            We all do, but those who have Jesus to atone for their sins are spared.

    • Pererin

      He learned of Christ.

      Your words sound as if you don’t believe and that you subscribe to the much pushed in the secular media – hateful, brutal, murdering Christian God. Nothing more than a straw man I’m afraid. Make something up that lot of hateful fools will believe, then burn it assuming victory, the result? You’ve only destroyed your own invention, sure many will have been misled along the way. Maybe you are one of those people, I don’t know. All I can tell you is that this ‘straw man’ God that you believe to be the God of the Bible is not in the Bible, take a look, pray for forgiveness and guidance and I hope that the true God of the Bible will reveal his awesome love and grace to you.

      Peace and love

      • Andy_Kreiss

        He learned how to exploit the name of Christ in order to continue being the same arrogant fool he claims he used to be, albeit with a more noble and pompous disguise.

        I don’t see any particular version of the Christian God pushed by the media, so I’d say the straw man is yours. The mainstream media is generally very coddling of Christians, bending over backward not to hurt their feelings.

        • Gary

          If he was all of those things he says he was before becoming a Christian, why would he have to become a Christian in order to continue doing the same things?

          • Andy_Kreiss

            Most likely because his ego didn’t like his being called all of those things he listed, but he found he could show the same hubris and condescension in the name of religion, and get fawned over, rather than criticized.

          • Gary

            He didn’t seem to be bothered by being called all those things. If he had, he likely would have tried to change things long ago.

          • Andy_Kreiss

            He probably wouldn’t have mentioned them if they didn’t bother him. He only tried to change things ( shifting his Narcissism from himself to his God) after a very emotional experience, as he realized he’d be a more sympathetic creature if he played the religious angle.

          • Gary

            LOL. Ok.

          • Andy_Kreiss

            I’m amazed at some of the things people need explained to them.

        • Pererin

          Well that is something only himself and the people who know him can comment on. You should not be criticising a person’s character because he is spreading the gospel.

          Have you not heard of, Richard Dawkins, Degrasse Tyson, Bill Nye, Christopher Hitchens, Lawrence Krauss? The media is full of stories of their ilk pedalling their cruel, tormenting, murderous Christian God. The mainstream media don’t even report stories where literally thousands of Christians are slaughtered in Nigeria and India and where they are heavily persecuted in China.

          Have you heard the amount of blasphemy in movies, radio, music and television? That doesn’t sound like bending over backward not to offend. God is flat out condemned and joked about with utter disrespect. I have no problem with freedom of expression as long as respect is shown. The truth is that you cannot go one day with hearing some sort of blasphemy and ridicule toward the God of the Bible. That certainly doesn’t sound like coddling.

          • Andy_Kreiss

            I can comment on things that I see plain as day, right before my eyes. Sorry to bust your authoritarian bubble. I’m not criticizing his character because he’s spreading the gospel, that’s fine, I’m criticizing him because he seems like an arrogant, condescending know-it-all.

            Yes, I’ve heard of those people. I’ve also heard of Pat Robertson, Mike Huckabee, a bunch of televangelists, and many others who fill the media with stories about their cruel, murderous God. Although I’ve never seen them try to pedal Him.

            http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/09/africa/boko-haram-violence/

            There’s the MSM reporting that stuff you imagine they don’t report.

            You seem to be moving the goalposts from “mainstream media” to films and TV shows. Sure, you’ll see some people not being quite PC about religion, but as far as the most mainstream media, it’s still not that common to see criticism of religion, except for Islam.

            What do you consider disrespectful or unacceptable, keeping in mind your “not having a problem” with freedom of expression? Do you consider the subject of this article’s condemnation of all non-Christians respectful?

          • Pererin

            I see so you are allowed to comment but when he makes comment he’s an arrogant know-it-all? I see!
            Ah you mean the high profile Pat Robertson and Mike Huckerby who have all that air time and media power, they can’t compair to the likes of DeGeese Tyson, Bill Nye and their media support. that’s like comparing Hollywood to Bollywood!

            Do you not count movies and tv shows as ‘media’ and in the ‘mainstream’?
            I’ll have to disagree with you on Christianity being overly criticised, I really don’t see where you are coming from I’m afraid.

            Tell me, why do you think that the media followed almost entirely on the Charlie Hebo story for days, while they gave hardly any attention to the killing of 2,000 Christians in Nigeria, they happened at the same time. 2,000 people, more than in 9/11. Politicians from around the world marched in Paris days after the attack, nothing has been done to this day for Nigeria. Surely you can see the problem here.

            I and most Christians find taking God’s name in vain disrespectful, yet it’s on most tv shows and movies. I find it odd that non-Christians seem to want to keep on using it. I have freedom of expression yet I don’t go around mocking mohammed or any other religion or belief. Respect is important and I would encourage it.

            I think the issue of the prayer breakfast is that it seems to have been high-jacked. It has traditionally be used as an expression of Christian America but recently Obama has been using it to express his agenda of multi-faith America, do you really think Christians are going to accept that? The Dalai Lama is a much respected person, but, as was said, without Jesus he is going to hell. At least there is now the hope that after hearing the gospel in this prayer breakfast, he may convert and know Jesus, or at the very least he has no excuse for not knowing him.

            That is the Christian faith, to spread the gospel, now all of a sudden you’re an arrogant know-it-all.

          • Andy_Kreiss

            I commented on actual things he said, not some imaginary destiny for anybody disagreeing with me. Big difference.

            Huckabee had his own show on a top rated cable channel, and Robertson is a regular guest on other shows, promoting Christianity. What are your best examples of the scientists you named committing blasphemy, or condemning anybody who’s a Christian? Your Hollywood/Bollywood comparison doesn’t really hold up.

            Yes, movies and TV are mainstream, but the MSM generally refers to news. I still don’t think there’s anywhere near as much criticism of religion as there is support for it in the mainstream media. Is there a time of year when the TV is flooded with atheist specials and classic shows, or programming critical of religion, that you could compare to the Christmas schedule?

            Aside from a few people like Bill Maher, who’s on HBO, and talks pretty frankly about his not being religious, who do you see with a high profile doing that?

            You’re not saying it straight out, but it seems like you’re implying that the attacks in Nigeria were not covered specifically beause it was Christians being killed. That doesn’t really pass the smell test, as there are people of other religions being killed around the world, with an equal lack of media coverage.

            The Charlie Hebdo coverage was greater because, unfortunately, we focus on those we identify with more than the “others” ( say, Nigerians)., and the Muslim terrorist against Europeans hits a lot closer to home. I don’t know if the people at that magazine were mostly white, black, Christian, Jewish or what, but an attack on people doing satire gets a lot more ratings than Muslim extremists killing black Christians in Nigeria.

            The Charlie Hebdo story was also interesting for the fact that I saw so many on the right taking the position of defending the cartoonists.The same people who make a living doing what you’re doing here, lashing out at those exercising their freedom of speech regarding religion, suddenly were big first amendment supporters.

            As long as it was against Islam.

            And more that 2,000 were killed on 9/11, if you’re talking about 2001. I do see a problem here, but it’s not the same one you’re imagining.

            What exactly do you mean by taking God’s name in vain I’ve heard some different interpretations of this. That’s good that you don’t mock other religions, but you can’t honestly say that you’re not aware of many Christians denigrating others for their beliefs ( see article above).

            Your take on the prayer breakfast says a lot. Yes, Christians got comfy pushing everybody around for many years, and they feel threatened that their dominance may be slightly less than it has been, but that’s just this country coming back to what it was founded on. If it was ever an “expression of Christian America”, that was a insult to the constitution that only existed by a tyranny of the majority that was one of the dangers the constitution was designed to peotect our free country from.

            No, I don’t think Christians are going to accept that, any more than Muslims accepted the cartoons that got the French cartoonists killed. It,s not civilization’s obligation to make sure everything is accepted by extremists.

            Your arrogant comment about the Dalai Lama is as disgusting to a rational person as the Muslim terrorists’ ideas about Christians or atheists.

            I’m not sure what your last sentence is trying to say, that a Christian extremist is an arrogant know-it-all, or that I am. I’d say that the race car driver who says anybody who doesn’t agree with his opinions is damned is that, I never claimed to know it all.

          • Pererin

            We obviously are going to see eye to eye here. We are coming from two very different positions. I’m not going to argue with you as it will not achieve anything.

            I will ‘arrogantly’ leave you with the message that Jesus died for our sins, without Jesus we are lost. Jesus is for the whole world, not just the US, UK and Europe, the Dalai Lama is included in that as am I. Remember this is not my own proclamation, these are God’s words, you are effectively calling God arrogant. We are all sinners and desperately need Him. There is nobody better than the other, nobody holier than the other, we are all in the same sinful pit. I think that you probably don’t belive in sin, you sound like you have been indoctrinated into the secular religion or belief if you prefer of naturalism. This is why our opinions differ so greatly, we have different starting points. There is nothing I can do to convince you, I have shared with you the gospel, all I must do now is pray and hope that the Lord blesses you.

            Peace and love to you.

          • Andy_Kreiss

            No, we’re probably not going to see eye to eye. I’m pretty reality-based, and you don’t seem comfortable with reality.

            Like most people alive, I’m familiar with the message of Christianity, as well as several other religions. That’s the hubris and arrogance I’m taking about, the assumption by religious people that anybody who doesn’t agree with them must be ignorant, and need to hear some message.

            If you believe that The Bible is God’s word, that’s fine, you’re entitled to any faith-based opinions you like, but you don’t get to impose those feelings-based assumptions onto others.

            I was indoctrinated into Christianity from birth, but grew out of it as I began to ask questions and think for myself.Yes, we have different starting points, and while I respect your right to accept things without question, that’s just not my style.

            Peace and love to you, as well.

    • Gary

      Is the God of the Bible real?

      • Andy_Kreiss

        Probably as real as any other gods. That question has been asked for thousands of years, and nobody has ever been able to answer it. Probably never will.

        • Gary

          If God probably exists, then why can’t you tolerate people who believe He exists? You are intolerant of Mr. Waltrip.

          • Andy_Kreiss

            I didn’t say that God probably exists, onlly that His existence is as probable as that of Poseidon, Zeus, or any other god. Your reading comprehension isn’t that great.

            But I’m perfectly capable of tolerating people who believe in any particular god. That’s their right. I’m not intolerant of anybody, you’re just mistaking my not accepting other peoples’ superstitions as “intolerance”.

          • Gary

            Well, you seemed to be criticizing Waltrip. I now understand that you are an atheist. Did you know that atheists are insane? It is insanity to believe God is not real.

          • Andy_Kreiss

            I was criticizing Waltrip. I think his childish behavior should be embarrassing to real Christians.

            No, I’m not religious, but I wouldn’t be so judgemental as to diagnose anybody as insane based on whether they’re religious or not. I know plenty of otherwise sane people who believe in God, I think the majority of people are just wired to accept irrational and supernatural explanations for difficult or impossible questions. The minority of us are comfortable admitting that some things probably will never be known by humans.

            That’s an interesting theory you have though, declaring that people who don’t believe in irrational things, based on no evidence, are crazy. I’m not sure what sort of logic would lead somebody to that position.

      • skeptic15

        As real as the Flying Spaghetti Monster (and the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is far better than the BuyBull)

    • JON B.

      Well said, Andy.

      “What are christianity and most religions today without an almost unholy dose of fear, self-denial, hatred and blind faith? Blind faith is nothing more than matured ignorance.” – Jon B.

      “If there is room enough in heaven for only the perfect then NONE of us shall ever enter it!” – Jon B.

      “Most present-day “christians” shall split the heart of hell wide open because they simply cannot understand that judgment will never destroy what mercy can save.” – Jon B.

      “Leave it to religion and religious fanatics to take love and make a sin out of it!” – Jon B.

  • mazzie54az

    hope Obama was listening

    • Gary

      He wasn’t.

      • 2lassie3

        Gary, how do you know?? I pray that God’s word will work in his heart and the day will come when he will accept Christ.

        • Gary

          He won’t.

  • chadw

    Not the most inviting title but man he drove a great message

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    The Lord bless this man! The truth-speaking!

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    What he said with correct capitalizations: “If you don’t know Jesus as your Lord and Savior, if you don’t have a relationship [with Him], if He’s not the Master of your life, if you’ve never gotten on your knees and asked Him to forgive you of your sins, [and] you’re just a pretty good guy or a pretty good gal, you’re going to go to Hell. Think about that. I did.” Amen.

  • Ivan Buck O’Brien

    Amen

  • wgone

    Except that there is no proof for anything that you claim and you ignore the fact that you follow Christianity because of the time and place and the culture you were born into .

  • BarkingDawg

    Waltrip acted like a total jackass.

    • Gary

      You mean he acted like you always do?

      • BarkingDawg

        I would never presume to preach to the Dalai Lama.

        But then again, being a jackass seems to be a Waltrip thing.

  • Bingo

    It is all good! Obama and the Dalai Lama needed to hear the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ!

  • R Cook

    2peter 3:91Sa 27:1) And David said in his heart, I shall now perish one day by the hand of Saul: there is nothing better for me than that I should speedily escape into the land of the Philistines; and Saul shall despair of me, to seek me any more in any coast of Israel: so shall I escape out of his hand.
    Pay much attention to the second verse and the word ALL. KJV

    2peter 3:92Pe 3:9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

  • Mister_YT

    Amen and Praise The Lord!!! Jesus is so great that anybody who doesn’t worship Him must be killed!

    • SheepToSlaughter

      Don’t fall for this anti-Christ and wolf in sheep’s clothing, more commonly referred to as a “troll”. Every post is an attempt to sully Christ and His followers. Pray that their soul be redeemed before the day of Judgment.

      • Mister_YT

        I pray God strikes you dead for your blasphemy!

  • skeptic15

    Fundamental issues
    1) did Jesus exist?
    2) does hell exist
    It is highly unlikely an historical Jesus, as written in the Bible, even existed (refer to On the Historicity of Jesus).
    A literal hell is a creation of man – just like the thousands of gods invented by men.
    Please, people, enough with the imaginary beings and hellfire nonsense.

    • Gary

      No.

      • John Mark IB

        hey Gary, well, this is actually to the atheists, again, we have to ask them, so by who and or what authority do you operate and get your final authority? well then, ah yes they have no god but themselves, and no ultimate hope either, so then who is their final authority? and based upon their own logic then anything goes, anarchy,?? and we should be able to kill, and rape, and pillage, (not my thinking at all and no way do I condone any of it just proving my point) whoever, and whenever, we please, like isis, right islam? because ultimately, you are your own god, and who can say what’s right and who’s right etc.,??? no moral absolutes it’s all just moral relativism and the only reason you’re here is just some cosmic accident time plus chance plus lot’s of time and lot’s of luck no science really needed here check you brains at the door oh wait they haven’t evolved yet?? ha ha ah those poor hateful atheists nothing better to do than troll the free forum and sow your bored hatred of those dangerous Christians heh? ha ha here’s hope dear atheist bottom line is I guess you can disprove and just deny Biblical history, people and languages, all the archaeology as well and the Jew and Israel and all the Biblical History, well of course you have to deny deny deny or else you have to accept and believe, but since you’re in de-nile denial!! the bottom line for you dear atheist is this what will you do with The Man Christ Jesus? have a lovely day and a blessed week 🙂 oh and may GOD bless you with love joy and peace always , in Jesus name amen! here’s hope for even you before it’s too late and you breathe your last mistaken breath 🙂 see if He doesn’t exist then you’re safe right?? no hell you’re safe right ??? but if He does and the evidence clearly says He does then your bottom line is what will you do with the Man Christ Jesus?? careful now what are your chances?? what are the odds?? let’s see Jews Israel Jerusalem all Biblical history which is His Story!!! What will you do dear atheist with Jesus?? that’s the burning question ha ha pun intended!!! careful now it’s a sizzler!!!

        of course no amount of evidence will be good enough If you’ve hardened your heart against Him but here goes with all sincerity……

        http://faithsaves.net

        http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36

        http://raptureready.com/featured/price/randall_price.html

        http://faithsaves.net/is-the-bible-gods-word/

  • zaggle

    Evidence of the effects of Christian Jihad on the West

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W-FOzIHGDY

  • Bhubryan

    Did that just happened in front of those dignitaries? White house already knew its gonna be just like that one . . . amen

    • James Grimes

      I don’t want to be rude, but I can’t figure out what you are saying.

  • Evangelina Vigilantee

    “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4; 12

    “Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” John 14; 6

    “For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” 1 Timothy 2; 5
    There is only one way of salvation; through Jesus and his death and resurrection.
    NO other way. Not your own way, not somebody else’s way, nothing. Take it or leave it. Those who have compassion preach this truth to save others from hell.

    • John Mark IB

      sad and a big shame too, that not enough true Christians are in here to show their support of a man Mr. Waltrip, who had the decency to tell it like it ought to be told and gave them all the bottom line, The Gospel of Jesus!! instead the attackers and haters of Christ are here foaming at the mouth with their hatred of Christ and His servants and testimony, It’s really good that GOD’S Word was preached in front of the “o” bominator his wife, and the dalai lama so no matter what they’re without excuse!!! have a blessed day and week GOD bless you with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen

      and as He says in

      John 14:6
      6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

      1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

      from the site http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/
      http://faithsaves.net
      http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36
      http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com
      http://discoverthebible.org

  • Howard Taylor

    Thanks for accepting my friend request. Here is my website and to let you know that I am a serious Christian. God BLess all your work for the Lord.
    ATTENTION ALL WHO HAVE AN EAR TO HEAR. THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY
    IS GIVING FORTH THE CALL FOR REPENTANCE REVOLUTION TO ALL MEN
    AND THIS INCLUDES ALL HUMANKIND. PLEASE PAY HEED FOR IT IS HIS TIME OF
    MERCY LEST MORE OF HIS WRATH BE BESTOWED UPON THIS NATION AND ALL
    THE NATIONS OF THE EARTH. IT IS THE CALL TO ALL, INCLUDING CATHOLICS,
    PROTESTANTS,
    AND ALL RELIGIOUS AND NON-RELIGIOUS PEOPLES.
    REPENTANCE REVOLUTION
    If you die and go to hell, you’ll look back on your earthly life now in great regret. NOW is the time to change things before it is too late! NOW is the time to tell your family and others to REPENT.
    Looking back on your week, how many precious opportunities slipped through your fingers to witness about salvation or at least hand out salvation literature? Our days are dark and desperate. Many people are without hope and many others have a false hope. People need ETERNAL TRUTH. They need God’s word. You are to be LIGHT in your area!
    Friend of Jesus Christ and desperate to introduce him to others.
    http://www.aggressivechristianity.net

  • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

    this is what it is all about

    • John Mark IB

      ahh yess looking for trouble now are we? if you’re an atheist and a hater of the historical true Christian faith and an anti Christ bottom line for you is what will you do with the Risen Christ? upon your death ylou will in fact wake up in a place that you denied existed and you will be in unbelief but yet that still will not change what it’s really all about!!! and what it’s really all about is this What will you do with The Man Christ Jesus??? your eternal fate hinges on your answer but we already know by your ntagonism towards the hisroty of this Nation which is the very reason you find it so easy to attack here in this Christian forum, freely with liberty, ha ha !! and your petty little quotes taken from the founders who also have much to say just in the opposite sense as they all acknowledged the Creator GOD who they knew exists!! only serve to undermine the larger evidences that most Americans still know, though the history has been rewritten today! so hate it all you want like all atheists your only reason for being in this forum is to get the reaction you’re now getting which is your purpose, but What it’s really all about is What will you do with The Risen Christ Jesus?? oh you forgot one thing too, about your hatred of this once great Christian Nation dear atheist now enjoy and maybe if you’re a sincere truth seeker you’ll be interested if not too bad so sad,
      Supreme court decision says America A Christian Nation at one time of course,
      http://vftonline.org/EndTheWall/TrinityHistory.htm

      sure you will find other hateful denier materials which abound but the facts remain, most atheists don’t realize that it’s to our own detriment that the real enemies of our nation know how to use this liberty and religious freedom against us and will continue to do so as in England until it’s too late then you will be happy?? and you can blame it all on those pesky Christians too ha ha islam is using our very own laws against us and is or soon will overtake Christianity in this nation as is happening on the college campuses with the calls to muslim prayer etc., hate Christians all you want we’re not your enemies per se, and

      maybe America is no longer Christian not today, good for you dear atheist Christ hater, but just wait when islam fully takes over maybe you’ll be happy with your muslim leaders who will not tolerate you like we do!! and you’ll become their dhimmi dupe, or worse, under the sharia law you will have no choice but to give into,

      now what’s it really all about?

      What will you do with the Man Christ Jesus??

      here’s hope even for dear sincere truth seeking atheists if you’re one…..May GOD bless you and may you have a blessed day and week 🙂 with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen!! and sorry for my tone but my fight is not with you, although you got your intended effect and got your rise out of one of us!! ha ha 🙂 I’m actually a lover of people and cultures so fire away!! nothing personal I’m sure you’d enjoy winning in your own little game of debate here but while you can beat me (I’m done),
      the really important and most vital of all issues and what it’s really all about is….what will you do with The Man Christ Jesus???

      http://faithsaves.net

      http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36

      if you’re sincere in your search and want proof…. see below…

      http://faithsaves.net/the-book-of-daniel-prophetic-proof-the-bible-is-the-word-of-god/

      http://raptureready.com/featured/price/randall_price.html
      What It’s Really all about??? Jesus who do you say He is? what will you do with Him?? your eternal destiny rests upon your answer …..happy seeking…..

      • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

        that’s a lot of wasting of time writing!!!
        (a) im not atheist: to me atheists are as screwed up as ‘believers’ since BOTH have ‘proof; of what they ‘believe’
        (b) JE$U$ is not “god” as god cannot be defined by anyone of a finite existence. those who do attempt to define ‘god’ ( you for example) are showcasing their bovaristic stupidity by—of COURSE– defining ‘god’ to fit their own narrative
        (c) I have no worry when I am dead– because when we die we are DEAD — “eternal destiny” is another carrot dangled in front of mules ( such as you) to control you/ to take your hard earned money
        (d) sending me to some bogus ling ( above) is not “PROOF” on anything other than the control-backed brainwashing that “believers” fall under-
        (e) since U follow the book of superstition ; answer me this ( I have plenty but will limit to one here),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, where/ how did cain get a wife?

        • John Mark IB

          ooohhh awwwwww, 🙂 ha ha wow I’m stumped oh boy watch out now!! 🙂 really nice you’re not an atheist? ok just an anti Christ, then that’s it?? but you attack GOD’S Word and His people?? ok ,
          wow even posted me a picture for good measure and effect!!! nice one very intimidating ha ha 🙂 jk actually if you got to know me as a person you’ d probably like me??? ha ha nah jk 🙂 but seeing as you hate me so much here…..

          and uh oh!! oh no!! watch out now!! he’s got me dead to rights!! oh no he’s using the so called atheists trump card?? really? oh man I’m just stuck with no answer!!! ha ha 🙂 yeah the Cain’s wife atheists trump card question?? ha ha gotta do better than that one, too easy, 🙂

          oh man now I’m in big trouble!! 🙂 oh boy wowwa weewa !! ha ha 🙂 wow oh well guess you win then, 🙂 (in your own mind and fantasy world of evolution from goo to you via the zoo frog to a prince haha :),

          but now then, since you’re gonna just shoot me with your kind words right?? hey by the way thanks for the compliments it shows what’s in your heart, ah yes, you do have the free will to hate of course,

          and May The LORD GOD Almighty who allows you freedom and shows you Mercy to let you mock Him and His Word!

          bless you and yours with love joy and peace always in Jesus name!

          bottom line is no answer will be good enough for you, surely we all know where Cain got his wife? is that the best you can come up with just like the other atheists who can’t really come up with anything better than that wow man you got me better call it a day and ok well then I lost the battle to Cain’s wife question??
          if you’re so determined to be against it?
          but does that really mean anything or solve the issue? you will have to give an account on the day of Judgment and will be able to have your chance to have it our with the GOD you say you don’t deny?? but He will then ask you over and over again so let it ring in your ears until you get it what it’s all about not me, or not you, but
          what will you do with the man Christ Jesus ?? bottom line to you and all the Christ haters and anti Christs in here and the world Bible haters of His Word!!
          What will you do CHRIST? you have the issues and the problem not me, I’m only your enemy because you’ve taken it upon yourself to call me names and make it personal so be it,

          What will you do with Christ?

          how will you plead on Judgement day??

          What will you do with Christ? just begs the question doesn’t it? why are you even here?? must be bored and actually enjoy this right?? ok then I’m game let’s play a game it’s called What will you do with Christ??

          ready set go!!

          What will you do with Christ?? guess you lose!!

          but since you don’t believe the book and choose to be a nasty foe, and have chosed to make me your enemy, then I’ll take the higher ground here and be humble, and kinder than yourself, and than yourself deserves for attacking me so negatively, and once again leave you with the ultimate question with my wasted words as you see them getting your desired effect and giving the time of a reply and response here it is and again May GOD Almighty bless you and yours with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen!!

          you have ablessed day night and weekend, and life on this earth that GOD created just for you,

          only one life, twill soon be past,

          only what’s done, for Christ will last!!

          question what will you do with Christ??? !!!

          thanks for your kind reply and very constructive arguments for and against the LORD GOD Almighty and His Christ oh and again what will you do with the man Christ Jesus??

          perhaps if you’re a sincere seeker of truth in this life, then you’ll get serious and ask yourself the 3 main questions most people,

          ask where did I come from?

          why am I here? and where am I going?

          then you can begin to also look at the so called religions of the world and make your decision or not, but if your sincere then I’m here to help you, and as such will leave you with blessings and not cursings, take it as you wish, but here’s hope if you’re sincerely interested, if not then I tried, and will be praying for you to get saved and be born again!!

          have a blessed day and night and week and weekend be safe and in good health!! after all

          only one life, twill soon be past,

          Only what’s done for Christ will last!

          you ready to meet your maker?
          I hope you’re a really kinder hearted person than you are antagonistic towards The Faith and myself but if you’re truly interested and want answers here’s some great solid materials otherwise take care….
          Absolute Truth is Absolutely Knowable and

          Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

          Jesus said I am The Way, The Truth, The Life, no man comes to the Father but by me!!

          well He was pretty arrogant and narrow minded wasn’t He?? guess what, if He says I am The Way, He means The Only Way, not many ways, or one of many etc., all roads lead to Rome? or a way ok??
          and if He says I am The Truth, then He means He is just that, Truth, not a truth, or some truth, or my truth or your truth, or any truth,
          but Absolute Truth!! period!!
          and He finally gives us Eternal Life only thru Him The Way, The Truth, The Life John 14:6

          http://faithsaves.net/

          http://faithsaves.net/the-book-of-daniel-prophetic-proof-the-bible-is-the-word-of-god/

          http://www.icr.org/article/cains-wife-it-really-does-matter/

          http://www.icr.org/article/always-be-ready/

          http://www.icr.org/creation-physical

          http://www.icr.org/creation-earth

          http://www.icr.org/creation-life

          http://www.icr.org/evidence

          really neat stuff here you’d be amazed at the things you can learn if you’re not afraid and are willing open minded……
          http://www.discoverthebible.org/lesson1/lesson1.htm

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            why is it that :
            (a) YOUR “god” is god?
            (b) you did NOT answer my question
            (c) you write SO much defending your position???

          • John Mark IB

            no your little pics don’t bother me at all cute really ha ha 🙂 and it doesn’t really bother me that you believe the way you do, except one thing is, I do care for lost people, and lost souls, which, is the biggest difference, between true Bible believing Christians, and all the other world religions, is we truly care about lost people, going to a fiery hell for their rejection of a Loving GOD, who has given His Absolute revealed Truth, and His Son to shed His Blood and suffer for us all so we can have a restored relationship with Him eternally etc., !! 🙂 there’s hope in this crazy world you see, and if you’re a sincere seeker of truth welcome, your journey begins here, thanks for not being so nasty this time around, 🙂

            sorry I do talk too much, ha ha 🙂 caffeine!! oh well it’s a human trait, my mother gave me ha ha! 🙂 but whatever, just trying to express my self thru this keyboard, which I’m not very good at, and the medium of internet is not easy to do on black and white, plus I’m not very articulate sorry I’m a product of the American public schools system, ha ha oh well my friend sorry if you didn’t get my message the answers are there for you to read if you so choose, but I will just try to be a blessing to you and try to be humble and graceful to you, ok so that said, in parting ere is a blessing for you and some more hope in the sites below if you so choose to or not!! I will pray for you that you at least have an open mind to Absolute Truth,

            May The LORD GOD Almighty Maker of Heaven and Earth The GOD of Israel, Jesus Christ Himself, bless you with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen! Shalom Aleichem!

            your answers where there in the sites listed, but you choose to not accept them as they were given?? as I said you can reject Christ, the bottom line to all of this again and you can do whatever you wish, is this what will you do with Christ Jesus?? every knee will bow and every tongue confess, to the glory of GOD The Father that Jesus Christ Is LORD!! that’s Scriptural and you can take that to the bank of eternal life!!
            thanks for your much nicer reply I guess? 🙂
            Cain’s wife is not as important as what will you do with Jesus??

            I gave you the answers you asked for, but the most important question for all atheists is the one I asked you, which you indeed have answered by no answer as well, so we’ll just try to give you hope if you want it if not take care, the only faith in the world where you can have a living relationship with the very Creator of the Universe in a personal manner is the Christian faith!! 🙂

            1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
            1 Corinthians 1:27
            27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

            Philippians Chapter 2

            5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

            6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

            7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

            8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

            9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

            10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

            11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
            bottom line there’s a free ticket to assurance of eternal life in Heaven with Christ, question remains, what will you do with Jesus??

            http://faithsaves.net/the-book-of-daniel-prophetic-proof-the-bible-is-the-word-of-god/
            https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/cain/cains-wife-who-was-she/
            http://www.icr.org/index.php?f_search_type=icr&f_keyword_all=Cain%27s+wife&module=home&action=submitsearch&search=AdvancedSearch&section=0&f_constraint=both&f_context_all=any&f_context_exact=any&f_context_any=any&f_context_without=any

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            for someone who CLAIMS to not be affected by my posts ( writings/photos etc) you certainly seem 2 write a plethora of “overselling” your VOODOO’s
            ever notice that??
            “eternal life in heaven”
            look up “bovaristic”

          • John Mark IB

            GOD bless you Sir/Ms., and I sincerely hope and pray you have a lovely week! 🙂
            nice of you to continue I guess you’re bored and enjoy it so take care and here’s a blessing for you,
            and as always, may The LORD bless you and yours, with love joy and peace in Jesus name always, amen. I will be in prayer for you as I can see you’re back to the nastiness, take care hope you’re in good health and be well, be safe, here’s hope nice try sorry it’s not going to work 🙂

            🙂 look up humble 🙂 grace 🙂 and joyful 🙂 blessed 🙂

            http://faithsaves.net

            http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36

            http://discoverthebible.org

            http://faithsaves.net/the-book-of-daniel-prophetic-proof-the-bible-is-the-word-of-god/

            1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

            John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

            Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

            🙂

            Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

            Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
            so then what will you do with Christ?????

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            what will I do with Christ???
            please note–
            “Christ” ,,,,,
            ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is
            …………………………………..dead
            ====================================
            I prefer to “do” with the living

          • John Mark IB

            that’s cute too but you’re little hater atheists thing works same in logic just the opposite way, for instance, why is it that the haters atheists if you’re/they’re so sure GOD and Jesus aren’t real? why do they fight against a GOD who doesn’t exist and spend all their time and life fighting the supposed GOD who supposedly doesn’t exist?? see your logic is not air tight is it??? GOD bless you my friend!! ha ha you’re fun!!

            if you’re sincere here’s hope here’s truth Absolute Truth exists Absolutely!! your very conscience tells you He exists and you know it but you willingly reject it!! thanks for the interaction this is good!!

            http://faithsaves.net/the-book-of-daniel-prophetic-proof-the-bible-is-the-word-of-god/

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            I didn’t say god and jesus are not real,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I say that jesus is not god. (im an agnostic; atheists are as incorrect as believers of religion)
            care to ‘double down” on more pedantic stupidity of yours?

        • John Mark IB

          ah really neat and kind of cute, clever little photo, but to your very negative replies to me this will suffice, then I’m done, as you’re very negative indeed, to your little photo here’s the other side of the coin and the only one that matters is the Truth!! what will you do with Jesus Christ!!
          ” if GOD gave man free will them He must be …………..exactly as He says He is, in His Holy and Preserved Words” a Caring and Holy Just and Loving GOD!! who chose His own Son to pay the price!!
          who only wants you to choose Him, freely of your own free will !! which He allows!! and of your own volition and will,
          He does not force anyone to bow to Him yet, even though His Word says every knee will bow and every tongue will confess to the Glory of GOD The Father that Jesus Christ is LORD, !! He is LORD GOD Almighty maker of heaven and earth!! and to HIM you will indeed give an answer!!
          but enough time your comments are really very nasty, an mean spirited and so very unnecessary, you could’ve been a bit more tactful but that’s ok once again you can deny ignore and hate and believe whatever it is you so choose to or not, the last words from me to you!!
          May GOD of The King James Bible in English, taken from His chosen languages of Hebrew and Aramaic and Koine common man’s Greek! that He chose to give the world the greatest gift ever to mankind His own Son, Jesus the Christ! to die and shed His human blood and suffer and pay the price for (me) and all sinners and hater’s like yourself, who can only call names and use verbal attacks on me personally, May He richly bless you and yours with mercy and grace and with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            where did cain get his wife??
            …..NOTE: no human is ‘god’

          • John Mark IB

            cute quaint little atheistic sayings, wow you win you’ve beaten GOD wow good for you trolling looking for trouble but not wanting to engage in the quest for truth ok?? wow that’s really rich coming from the freedom from religion folks, ha ha sad and miserable and so they just hate and attack those of faith, 🙂

            so sad the only religion you guys can come here and troll for, and attack is the Truth of Jesus Christ, funny satan really does know and hate the truth, and he knows that Jesus is GOD!! so the religion he attacks most is the Name Of Jesus!! Christianity! and Jesus Christ which is used as a cuss word, as is GOD, no one ever cusses the other false religious leaders of the world, and it’s for good reason, just that, they’re false awaiting the lake of fire and brimstone at the great white throne judgment when we’ll all see The Jesus who is rejected by the majority, and who chose to willingly step down from His throne, for lost sinners like myself, and you who mock and hate Him, and those who believe in Him and know the Truth!! He will separate the sheep from the goats!!

            hate on friend hate on but it is my prayer you will repent and come to faith in The Living GOD Jesus Christ!! before it’s too late and you find out the Truth the hard way!!

            only one life twill soon be past,

            only what’s done for Christ will last,

            born once die twice, born twice die once,

            Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

            Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

            Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

            Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

            Revelation 21:8

            But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

            if you’re still alive there’s still hope for you by allowing you to show your hatred He’s showing you His Mercy so what will you do with The Man Christ Jesus???

            http://faithsaves.net

            http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36

            http://discoverthebible.org

            http://faithsaves.net/the-book-of-daniel-prophetic-proof-the-bible-is-the-word-of-god/

            Dear Atheist, Hammer away Ye many hands, your hammers break, GOD’S Anvil ever stands!!
            men have died and been burned for their simple wanting to have a copy of the Bible in their own language and simply for their belief in Christ Jesus, it will and is happening again, and even
            His word has been attacked by so called scientists and even the catholic church and all mankind, as well as atheists, and even today the anti KJV haters still attack true Bible believers, and even Voltaire the great French philosopher made a bold prediction, albeit very stupid, and said that within 100 years the Bible would be obsolete, well lo and behold, within 50 years his very house was being used to print and produce Bibles if I’m not mistaken, funny how GOD works isn’t it??? ha ha 🙂 you got love His sense of humor!!

            Daniel amazing book that prophesied the kingdoms of this world during the captivity of Israel His People His Chosen Nation and here is where GOD tells you that He is Indeed in control over His Creation and allows who He will to have rule, as He did then even so He is still in control!!
            Daniel 4:
            32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
            may you now it is The Most High GOD Jesus who rules over the affairs of mankind and will be the one you will give answer to and meet in his court in front of His throne!! I’d rather meet Him, a Holy and Righteous, Just Judge, on his terms not on mine!! what will it be what will you do with Christ??
            have a blessed day night and week…..

          • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

            again; O blazing “intellect”— Im agnostic; atheists are as incorrect as believers in religion.
            ,,,,,,,,,,and again: why do U “think” ( see: blazing intellect) that quoting YOUR book has any relevance upon reality?…or what I have found?
            your book? your belief? your “god”???
            really?
            (NOTE: jesus is dead and isn’t coming back)
            ……………………….C’ept in YOUR belief ( see: superstition)

    • John Mark IB

      hey here’s a neat one for you also look up your state’s preamble to your state constitution etc., and see actually all the USA States preamble to the constitution for each state begins with GOD isn’t that neat??? you might want to tell your friends at the freedom from religion to sue the states to remove this from their preambles it’s rather interesting don’t you think why would the states all of them have this??? you can go to Wikipedia if you trust them and fin preamble to states constitutions etc., and see for yourself, have a blessed day and week!! 🙂
      http://faithsaves.net

      • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

        states rights are secondary to federal rights ….
        besides; I have NO PROBLEM with “god”
        ==========================================
        I have a problem with VOODOO(see: religion) and scumbags who attempt to tell me and others that JE$U$ is “god”. …….”JE$U$” is NOT ‘god’
        JE$U$ is NOT ‘god’———— yet so many white trash regressive scum attempt to force that ersatz belief upon others
        see: freedom FROM religion
        *************************************************************
        any questions?

  • James Grimes

    I’ll be back when someone disposes of the trash.

    • John Mark IB

      thanks for the support James, I appreciate the moral support seems we’re the minority here which seems also prophetic ha ha:) many called but few chosen!!
      where are our so called Christian brethren who will help in silencing the anti Christs and critics of The LORD GOD Almighty??
      ahh yess, but let’s not be as negative as the hater’s are, it’s too easy to be ensnared in satans devices,

      but it’s really kind of negative so sad really but they come here to purposely antagonize as their favorite atheist sites and giveaway slogan or token name says” freedom from religion” as if unbelief isn’t belief? and is in itself a religion a belief system making them supposedly superior in their own minds you know? and as such they have to escape themselves to escape it all ! ha ha makes you wonder why they bother coming here to attack the easy Christians when you can bet they don’t dare attack the false religions you know? ha ha 🙂 hilarious!! this is what alcohol drugs and antidepressants to your brains any questions?? ha ha jk 🙂
      “the force is strong with this one luke better use our lasers and set phasers to stun!! or we’ll have to do an exorcism”, ha ha jk 🙂
      guess they are their own god of self? really serving their true god the god of this world satan, they really are a miserable bunch, sad folks, which is what they want misery enjoys company, time to move on, I did my best to shine the light into the darkness, but they love darkness more than light because their deeds are evil!! this one is a tough hater though, anyways may The LORD Bless you and yours with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen!! have a blessed day and week/weekend my friend and pass on the hope to even them that hate and bless those that curse us!!
      I only hope and pray he or she gat’s saved and born again!! before it’s too late!! here’s hope…
      only one life twill soon be past,
      only what’s done for Christ will last!!
      wherever I stand,
      I stand with Israel

      http://faithsaves.net

      http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36

      http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com

      http://www.discoverthebible.org/lesson1/lesson1.htm

  • flystraight

    Maybe if we all pray Nascar will replace him and give the mic to someone else.

  • Joanna Willis

    Is there a specific type of Christian that will go to heaven or just the type that believes as you do? There are different denominations of the Christian religion, and they all teach different lessons. And what about the billions of people that have not been exposed to Christianity or the teachings of Christ-or even those who rejected the teachings because it was given to them by force. So, this almighty deity simply creates people to send them to a place of torment and punishment forever as a result of being on earth for a brief moment. I guess that means that children that die go to hell too, since they haven’t accepted Christ. What an arrogant concept!!!

    Many Christians fail to realize that what they now accept as the so called teachings of Christ were made up by a group of politicians in what is now modern day Turkey, who combined the different books that were floating out there and created the bible. Teachings of Jesus were written down hundreds of years after his death-we all know how reliable that is!!!

    The bible says a lot of things-and it is only holy because man has said it is holy. And for those so called Christians who have a problem with Jews-remember the old testament of the Christian bible is the Holy Torah……

    All religion is a corrosive disease that is used to control society…I wish more people were enlightened. The only god of the world is money and power. Always has been.

    • Gary

      I won’t expect to see you at church. And I’m glad.

      • John Mark IB

        Gary, here’s the simple question to ask them all ok then so who’s her final authority?? and what does she base here morals and values on?? what book or Holy writings? if it was all written by man? oh wait she did mention the Torah? right? oh but wait awe man that was written by man too right? well by here very own statements she condemns herself to no hope no final authority as such, funny GOD’S Preserved Words in the KJV say that He used man to write His Words He guided man to write exactly what He wanted and Preserved it 100% to this day so the book I hold in my Hands can confidently be said to be The Very Words of GOD preserved in the English language KJV which is why they all attack it and hate it so much, satan hates Him and His Preserved Words, Final Authority GOD’S Word KJV!!! again she denies it just like satan in the garden got the woman to also be fooled and question GOD’S Holy Word and say “hath GOD said??” to her own demise!! the message of the cross is foolishness to them who perish!!! kind of begs the question then why are they here ? but to debate and antagonize??

        seems to me like she is a denier of His Truth and His Christ The LORD Jesus and is indeed an anti Christ, enemy of the faith!! no faith in His Preserved Words!! so sad and then you have the anti founding fathers anti constitutionalists anti Christian nation types who only quote half truths to make it look like the founders were antagonistic towards the historic Christian faith of Jesus!! so sad they should read each states preamble which all begin with In GOD we trust or similar etc., neat huh?

        http://faithsaves.net

        http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36
        http://discoverthebible.org

        let’s see if maybe she’ll get saved after all Daniel predicted the Messiahs date of arrival and cutting off precisely!!

        http://faithsaves.net/the-book-of-daniel-prophetic-proof-the-bible-is-the-word-of-god/

        http://raptureready.com/featured/price/randall_price.html

        http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/vpp_course.htm

        http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/pdf_VPP_Course/lesson_1.pdf

      • John Mark IB

        little comparison of all the world’s religious leaders neat enjoy,
        http://rel.irr.org/jesus-zoroaster-buddha-socrates-muhammad

  • Ramona Grant

    “If you don’t feel different, than you better go back and try again”? Really? God made him a “good” person? Really? This sounds like a 2nd grade Sunday School class gone wrong. I am so sure the Dalai Lama was so inspired by this!! Was there anyone actually creeped out by this “declaration” (besides myself)?

    • Gary

      Opinions vary.

    • John Mark IB

      ha ha wow really? yeah right, you can’t be serious, sorry to sound hostile but, and if you’re an atheist, ok that makes total sense, as an enemy of the faith and an anti Christ, you’d attack a Godly man who gave his life changing testimony in front of many enemies and haters of the faith, including the obamas and the Buddhist dalai lama, all of them also Christ deniers as you seem to be, but here’s hope even if you are an atheist, and if not well then you must be uber liberal(definitely not conservative by any means) so called Christian or universalist? Unitarian quaker, jw? and this is what’s wrong with the salt less, lukewarm, actually lost and cold, Christianity of today’s world, and no wonder America’s in post Christian stages, which also makes you an enemy of the faith too, gee, let’s see yes Christ changes lives of those who follow His Preserved Words in the English KJV, and are truly born again as He, Jesus, says Ye must be born again, and so why do you attack Mr. Waltrip for preaching the truth unless of course you’re anemic and immune to the truth? he gave his life changing true Christian testimony and you have issue with it?? ok well too bad so sad, he gave the Gospel and you’re critical of it?? truly Jesus said it well when He said narrow is the way that leadeth to life and few there be that find it, and broad is the gate and the way that leadeth to death and or destruction and many go in that gate!! the message of the cross is foolishness to them that perish, but here’s hope, may you sincerely find it, while time is short, and may GOD bless you with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen!! have a blessed day and week,
      Thank You LORD and
      Praise GOD for Mr. Waltrip, for giving them the life changing, life saving, message that Jesus still saves, and changes lives, of those who place their total faith and complete trust in Him, and Him alone, and for being bold enough to share it with the lost, without fear, in a world that hates true Christianity, and true Christians, in Jesus name amen!!
      http://faithsaves.net
      http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36
      http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com
      http://discoverthebible.org

  • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

    You won’t go to heaven or hell until the resurrection of the last day…

    • Gary

      That is not what the Bible says.

      • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

        Yes it does…2nd only to hell, Jesus preached more about the resurrections than any other subject. He repeats over and over that He will raise and quicken the dead at the last day. All that are in the graves shall hear His voice at the last day. With the exception of Enoch, Elijah, Moses, and the 24 elders who were raised to life, NOBODY is in heaven, Its the false teachers that are spreading the lies of immediate life after death in a spirit in heaven or a spirit in hell…thus repeating the lie started by Satan in the Garden, “ye shall not surely die”. What’s the purpose of the TREE OF LIFE needed to live forever if the soul is immortal as the world preaches?

        • Gary

          No, it does not. Jesus told the thief who died next to him that he would see him in paradise THAT DAY. Jesus said that Abraham was in paradise, while Jesus was on earth. There are other examples as well.

          • pax2u

            is that a Ford pick up as your image?

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

            Jesus did not tell the thief on the cross he was going to heaven that day. If so, in order for Christ to be true to His promise, both He and the thief would have had to make it to heaven before the sun set that very day.

            Let’s see if they actually did. First, did Jesus go to heaven that day?

            The Bible tells us that He did not.

            For when He was resurrected He said, “I am not yet ascended to my Father” (John 20:17).

            So Jesus didn’t go to heaven that day. What about the thief: did he? The Bible tells us in John 19:31-34 that at the end of the day the soldiers went and found the two thieves still hanging there on the cross, both still alive.

            Then they broke their legs and let them down off the cross for the Sabbath. So the thief didn’t make it to heaven that day either.

            Well then, did Jesus tell a lie? No. The problem is easily solved when we realize that when the Bible was written, there were no punctuation marks. Commas were added hundreds of years later when the Bible was translated into English.

            In Luke 23:43 the comma should have been placed after, rather than before, the word today.

            It actually reads, “Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.”

            Jesus gave him that day a promise that He will not break. “For when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him,…then shall the King say…Inherit the kingdom prepared for you” (Matthew 25:31-34). “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works” (Matthew 16:27).

            And that’s all the thief was asking for anyway. He didn’t ask to go to heaven that day. He simply said, “Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom” (Luke 23:42)

      • John Mark IB

        Gary what we have here, is the cultist deniers of His truth, in the house, the Jws and the Adventist are here along with the atheists and the Westcott and hort Jesuits crowds, the Eugene nida false Greek and KJV only haters, who are in denial or in De-Nile ha ha, here is a great proper CIA context interpretation and application of the following verses you mentioned above, and as you have said it so well yourself, GOD bless you for standing for the Truth!! remember you’re dealing with Adventists and deniers of His actual spoken words!! anyways here’s some history and videos to help, and the bottom line is ellen g white was a false prophet, and not to mention just a really bizarre individual, she had issues, and men are not to be under the authority of women teachers period, she was into all kind of weird stuff like phrenology etc., also have you ever noticed that the 1800’s were a time when all the strangest cults came out? the false Baptist William miller/millerites, the precursors to the 7th day Adventists and their false prophet and the false jehovahs witnesses, (no true Baptist would ever fail to properly interpret GOD’S Word and surely not twist what Jesus Himself told us about the 2nd coming etc., ) and his false failed 2nd coming predictions of the end times not long after the Mormons began in the early 1830’s?? and then the adventists and jehovahs false witnesses in the mid to later 1800’s?? same as the false Westcott and hort Bible changers who got the world to accept the false Egyptian/catholic jseuits stream of gnostic texts that all the modern bibles are based upon the new perversions etc., as I told you in the previous post, also German rationalism and Darwinism which all affected the humanists and their anti Biblical views, take care here’s some great helps, enjoy, they also deny the eternality of the soul which is just so obvious that The LORD GOD created man in His Image with an eternal soul body mind and spirit, which is why we know that death is so painful, we’re not supposed to die, we were created to live forever, eternity is in our hearts, which the soul does live eternally, and we know biblically, to be absent from the body, as a born again believer in Christ that absent from the physical body is to be immediately present with LORD!! amen!! no such thing as jw’s and Adventists soul sleep?? but they the cults, deny it GOD’S plain Words and simple truths will not be denied, as a human they may not want to hear of an eternal hell because in their human minds it feels good to not have a GOD who “sends” people to hell to be punished right?? sure sounds great to me if I’m reading it humanly without His Holy Spirit as my guide in His Word?? but that does not negate the fact that GOD only sends those who reject Him and His Word Jesus to their eternal destiny after they reject Him, so that’s where they do err greatly, just because they deny it doesn’t make it not true!!
        http://faithsaves.net/bible-truths-for-seventh-day-adventist-friends/
        hopefully they will wake up and we can reach them before they end up in the very hell they deny and find out He is exactly who He says He is!!!
        http://faithsaves.net/luke-2343-comma-thief-in-paradise-that-day/
        Luke 23:43 and the comma—Was the Thief in Paradise that Day?
        see the very bottom of this page for the 2 on hell and eternality support great work by Thomas Ross

        http://faithsaves.net/apologetics-and-false-religions/
        Do The Lost Really Suffer Torment Forever? A Study of the Greek words “for ever” and “everlasting/eternal.”

        Notes on Anti-Eternal Torment, Pro-Annihilationism “Proof-Texts”

        Seventh-day Adventism – The Spirit behind The Church
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs_vZW__6eA

        https://carm.org/seventh-day-Adventism

        wealth of info below too see
        http://biblebelievers.com/FalseDoctrine.html

        http://www.biblebelievers.com/SDA/SDA1.html#1-a

        http://mmoutreachinc.com/seventh_day_adventists/sda_facts.html
        http://mmoutreachinc.com/seventh_day_adventists/sda_index.html
        interesting stuff here not that I endorse it all though but neat stuff
        below
        http://bible.ca/
        http://defendingcontending.com/tag/seventh-day-adventist/
        http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/
        http://www.nonsda.org/egw/gc1.shtml

  • Brandon Fayard

    Eternal suffering awaits those who question God’s infinite love.

  • Lucid_American

    why think separately

    of this life and the next

    when one is born from the last

  • ariel144

    Quite a fascinating and humble testimony even for those who have a different concept of hell than DW & most Christians. Psalms 139:7,8 “whither shall I go from Thy Spirit? or whither shall I flee from Thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, Thou art there: If I make my bed in hell, Thou art there.” Even Christians are promised a baptism by fire…a bit more painful transition than the baptism by water which is painless. “He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death/lake of fire/baptism by fire.” Rev. 2:11 “Our God IS a consuming fire”…remember HEAVEN and earth are both burned up to create a new heaven and new earth. Time to unlearn and learn my friends. He is speaking to you out of the burning bush that never burns up.

  • Sheepdog_CT

    And Jesus is glorified! Amen!

  • ariel144

    Quite a fascinating and humble testimony even for those who have a different concept of hell than DW & most Christians. Psalms 139:7,8 “Whither shall I go from Thy Spirit? or whither shall I flee from Thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, Thou art there: If I make my bed in hell, Thou art there.” Christians are promised a baptism by fire…a bit more painful transition than the baptism by water which is painless. “He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death/lake of fire/baptism by fire.” Rev. 2:11 “Our God IS a consuming fire”…remember HEAVEN and earth are both burned up to create a new heaven and new earth. Time to unlearn and learn my friends. He is speaking to you out of the burning bush that never burns up.

  • Corinna Carpenter

    You stupid and obnoxious Christians can all go to hell!

  • Corinna Carpenter

    Shove it, Waltrip.

  • VMWH

    Interesting, and the title says that someone doesn’t seem to grasp that Obamas joined the church of the Puritans–The United Church of Christ. And I think we will let God sort it out with the Dali Lama. That is NOT our department.

  • Jim King

    Who REALLY goes to Hell, What is Hell, and is it forever?? What does the Bible REALLY say about that?? http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/who-goes-to-hell/

  • John Mark IB

    wow Amen!! thanks Mr. Waltrip for being a True Christian and telling it like it is, and should be told! wow and thn you’ve got the hell doubters casting the satanic questioning of the garden as always on GOD’S Words!! wow ha ha you’ve got to be kidding me,really?? hath GOD said? in this day and age it shouldn’t be a big surprise they deny it, but, yes boys and girls Hell is real and if you deny it, it’s to your own peril, here come the cultists deniers and GOD’S Word changers the modern versionists only crowds who are haters of the KJV etc., ha ha, !! but thanks Mr. Waltrip truly a class act, but, thankfully, and finally someone has the guts and the courage to stand up to, and to tell the one who constantly attacks the Christian faith, the “o” bominator, and tell him the Gospel Truth, and if you don’t really know GOD’S Holy Preserved Words in English KJV, it’s very simple, Jesus preached about the place called hell way more than anyone else for a simple reason,He doesn’t want you to go there, and He speaks of your soul being a worm that dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, etc., well gee you think He meant that literally? oh wait oh no, it can’t be taken literally can it? no it must be questioned and reinterpreted from the actual meaning right?? they love to hate His Holy words and change it, He, Jesus, also says that the weeping and gnashing of teeth is literal as well, or can we just go back to satan and question all the time like the cults and say Hath GOD really said? is that really what He means? and hath GOD really meant what He said?? if you are a doubter/cultist/ellen g whiter, jehovas false witness, and other false pseudo Christian cultist, then you’ll never get it?? it’s all for you to take Him at His Word and trust him, or if you need to I’ll just list them here, if you’re truly serious about Hell? really?? you even question His Word?? wow thanks GOD for Mr. Waltrip, and to those who need to get out of the Adventist and cults denial of GOD’S literal Words not just questioning and doubting it all the time why would Jesus even bother to make remarks and comments about it and why is it even in the book that matters most when you’re in the judgment before His throne?? so why would He even tell you, you will burn day and night tormented in the lake of fire and brimstone forever and ever, did He really say that?? ha ha ?? oh no Adventists and cults and KJV only haters, don’t want that to be literal, so it must be a mistake, we’ll just reinterpret it to mean what we think it should right? and we’ll just say Hath GOD really said?? man proper context interpretation and application it’s simple CIA, the audacity to even question the Literal Word of The Living GOD will get you into big trouble, but the Adventist hell deniers will reinterpret and destroy His words to mean what ellen g white wanted it to mean and Charles taze russellites etc., same twisting of scripture as always nothing new the Hath GOD said crowds will deny and doubt and twist and shout!! it can’t mean what He said it does??? of course the Adventists do their very best to destroy this teaching from Jesus and they say oh no it’s just a parable that really doesn’t mean what is says, improper hermeneutics and improper interpretation as always ellen g white false prophet same as Charles taze Russell he had a big problem with the trinity, literal hell, and the deity of Christ,

    http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/book.php?book=Luke&chapter=16&verse=

    The Rich Man and Lazarus
    Luke Chapter 16 : 19
    19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

    20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

    21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

    22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

    23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

    25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

    26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

    27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:

    28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

    29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

    30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

    31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

    Mark 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

    Mark 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

    Mark 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

    Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    Matthew 8:12
    Matthew 22:13
    Matthew 24:51
    Matthew 25:30
    Luke 13:28

    http://faithsaves.net/bible-truths-for-seventh-day-adventist-friends/

    http://faithsaves.net/worshipping-jehovah/
    see the following 2 studies below on eternal torment and judgement etc., if you’re truly interested in truth at the bottom of this page click on and download the articles to read,

    http://faithsaves.net/apologetics-and-false-religions/
    Do The Lost Really Suffer Torment Forever? A Study of the Greek words “for ever” and “everlasting/eternal.”
    http://faithsaves.net/apologetics-and-false-religions/
    Notes on Anti-Eternal Torment, Pro-Annihilationism “Proof-Texts”

  • John Mark IB

    dear johovas false witness are you worshipping Jehovah? really ok then here’s some food for you to feast on but your very denials of Christ will lead you to the very hell you also deny and you will burn eternally and in torments for your following the man Charles taze Russell and judge Rutherford your whole organization is a huge false prophet and as such should be according to Jewish law put to death as per the test of a true prophet which ylou can’t deny like you do Christ and hell, but here you go if you really dare to seek truth which I sincerely hope you do it’s amazing that folks can be so easily led into the snares of these groups, and yet so sad and tragic that they will die in their sins for their following the false prophet organization created by Gospel deniers!!! they teach you to not be an independent thinker resist free thought this is cult tactics 101 simple and they threaten you with the good old fashioned shunning and casting you out from the group and your family too scare tactics to make you fear their power over you and you are also taught it’s ok to lie to the uninitiated too but really is it Christian to lie isn’t lying a sin? oh not for the cults,??? and what about beth sarim who creates a house for the supposed coming back saints?? really?? what a tragic failure after failure just like their false prophecies too many and numerous but you keep right on calling it new truth or new light so it seems like it’s all just ok to keep failing and following the false blind teachers leaders of the blind, false prophecy is a complete dead giveaway and immediately disqualifies your organization as just that a false prophet!!! not to mention that your organization like the modern day heretics who attack the KJV bible as you yourselves do are really using false Greek and corrupt translations and your own people are not trained in the proper Greek and Hebrew and Aramaic no surprise here if you want to pervert the true and Living GOD’S Preserved Words in English the KJV all you have to do is just change it and they’ll believe it was translated from the original languages as you guys do but ask your leaders and teachers and see what they have to say about your secret committee of so called translators it’s no big secret the men who created your perversion same as the haters who attack the true Greek and Hebrew and Aramaic texts that are the Preserved Words of GOD in the English KJV, your guys got caught with their hands in the cookie jar busted wide open, false fake scholars of satans perverting GOD’S Words!!
    Are You Worshipping Jehovah?
    http://faithsaves.net/worshipping-jehovah/

    http://www.alwaysbeready.com/jehovahs-witnesses

    excellent video with the truth of your false prophet organization if you dare to be a free thinker and seeker of the truth

    Into Darkness – Jehovah’s witnesses history – Scans provided
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5JnngqQYvc

    http://www.alwaysbeready.com/jehovahs-witnesses

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scf5ftyTOd4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5_8VfJM9zo
    Witness at your Door/The Witness goes out

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyYnvk8NWB8

    http://wit.irr.org/

    http://mmoutreachinc.com/jehovahs_witnesses/65%20Questions.html

    http://www.alwaysbeready.com/jehovahs-witnesses?id=118
    http://www.watchman.org/index-of-cults-and-religions/#Watchtower
    Watchtower: Magazine published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society; full name, The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom.
    Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, Charles Taze Russell, Brooklyn, NY: Satan is the originator of the idea of the Trinity. The Father is the supreme God whose real name is Jehovah. Jesus is a created being known originally as Michael the Archangel; he is “a god,” not Jehovah. Jesus only rose spiritually, not bodily, from the dead. The Holy Spirit is the impersonal active force of God. Only the anointed class (or little flock) numbering 144,000 will go to heaven, while faithful “other sheep” will live eternally on a paradise earth; the lost will cease to exist (annihilationism). Publishes the Watchtower and Awake! magazines, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (their own version of the Bible), as well as numerous books. Originally called International Bible Students, followers today are called Jehovah’s Witnesses. Research material available. Profile available.

    http://www.christianministriesintl.org/articles/Quick-Tips-Witnessing-Jehovahs-Witness.php

  • Black Lotus

    My “god” can beat up your “god”… even though I can’t prove it exists. Christianity- if you are self-righteous, it is the religion of choice. 😛

  • winterband

    Do see and share http://www.barrysoetoro.net for all you need to know about Hussein the illegal, foreign born, muslim, anti-american Democrat POTUS and his islam religion.

    Please cut and paste the following to Facebook groups and pages and other sites that might be interested in Facebook corruption and censorship as I have been blocked from posting for 30 days and now from even private messaging my friends. Don’t think this can’t happen to you!

    Bro. Steve Winter has again been censored and blocked from posting to Facebook or communicating with friends.

    Please see and share http://www.facebookcensorship.com far and wide, on and off of Facebook.

    Also a new Google group http://tinyurl.com/fbooked

    WARN conservative sites like TPNN, Conservative post, Viral Buzz and FOX Insider that by using the Facebook social plugin on their site everyone Facebook censors will also be censored from commenting on their site. Do they really trust Facebook to control their content???

    You can also find his publishing at http://biblefolk.com/forum/4

  • Gordo2772

    Religion is for the weak minded and are plagues upon humanity. I regard it as the ultimate evil. You poor theists, you were indoctrinated into the cult and now you’d die before you thought any other way. Religion is holding humanity back and has caused BILLIONS of deaths the world over. You all are delusional but just keep it out of my government and my children’s school and there won’t be a problem. Keep trying to ram your beliefs down other throats and see just how militantly atheist we can be.

  • River Lizard

    The mafia leader said to the store owner ” Pay me now or end up in a
    dumpster” ….just like jesus….”Worship me now or burn in hell”.
    Gotta love such as loving mafia….oops I mean god as that!!

  • Alan Jones

    Atheists are greater people of faith than Christians. It takes much more faith to believe that a life giving cell could appear in a hostile environment and survive, than it does to believe in a Creator. The mathematical probability of that occuring are so far off the scale as to be laughable.
    The quotes I see by one or two deluded atheists on this thread are ridiculous. They are certainly clutching at straws and show zero scholarship or understanding of Biblical passages or notions they allude to. The posters I see paraded are straight from the church of atheism central and underscore the ignorance of their publishers, with the same purile comments of old.
    The greatest enemies of atheists are their pride, ignorance and arrogance.

    • regressive whitetrash GOP scum

      I agree as atheists are as fervent as believers
      =======================================
      how about we who are agnostic???

  • Jeremy Crockett

    Atheists here are saying that “Christians ought no tell others how to live”; this is a self-refuting proposition. Every single person posting here has ideas about how we should or should not live. These are presuppositions and they are unavoidable. So, the question is: Which presuppositions are the best presuppositions to argue FROM?

  • Sandy Riley

    Kind of embarassing. I mean, I doubt the holy spirit needs his big help. And to say a good god, lets good people go to hell is just confusing to the masses. It makes christians sound kind of nutty.

  • Matt McLaughlin

    Lame. Meanwhile alot of American Christians are so fat up Israel’s yonder Bibi has a lump in his throat.

  • TheSharperWon

    Man, we got caught up in the lunacy of POTUS condemning Christianity, the message of Christ being exalted and truly honored got lost! Praise the LORD! TRUTH speaking to Illegitimate power!

  • Debby

    Article By:Heather Clark…NASCAR Legend “***Declares to Obama, Dalai Lama*** at Prayer Breakfast: Without Christ, You Will Go to Hell”… I love his testimony, but he did not tell “them” they were going to he// but rather the truth that anyone who does not confess Jesus Christ as Lord will go to he//. Heather Clark, you should not lie about what some one said when they did not say that. An apology is in order here.

  • Paul Parsons

    Maybe he should tell that to the 65% of the Human race that isn’t Christian….

  • Brien

    What a complete jerk! Just because he had a life altering problem does not mean that he has to publicly lie to the world and show his stupidity.
    Jerks like these must be forced to prove their claims of gods and heavens or just shut up!
    BTW, adding “blasphemy” to your list of banned remarks is cowardice and infringes upon my right to free speech — I at least speak the truth, whereas we all know that every religion/belief system/ abuses this fake concept of blasphemy to defend any criticism (usually the truth).

  • Rod Timmons

    I pray everyday that right wing phonies stop using God to validate their vile hatred of our President and our country !

  • Sheldon Drake

    according to the ironclad word in your silly “holy book” (how arrogant and unredeemably stupid to presume that the mind of any real god could be contained in a book), the big rapture you all are hoping for will take about 200,000 people. I sincerely hope it comes, and the rest of you howling drones are left scrambling in the dust. How pathetic, hoping your sad banal little egos will be preserved for eternity, wearing shiny robes, singing songs to Jeebus all day every day for billions of years. Sounds like hell to me…