Top Obama Aide: President Lied About Opposing ‘Gay Marriage’ to Deceive Blacks, Get Elected

Obama AxelrodWASHINGTON — A new book written by a longtime Obama aide states that the then-presidential candidate was advised to lie about his beliefs regarding same-sex “marriage” in order to get elected.

David Axelrod’s “Believer: My Forty Years in Politics” was released on Tuesday, and serves as a memoir of Alexelrod’s political career, including his time as Obama’s campaign and presidential adviser.

Axelrod outlines in the book that Obama supported same-sex “marriage” while first running for office in 2008, but because Alexrod believed the position wouldn’t win votes from African American Christians, he advised Obama to lie about his stance. However, this didn’t set well with Obama.

“I’m just not very good at bull [profanity],” he quotes Obama as stating.

So, Obama, reluctant to take Axelrod’s advice, chose to compromise in the matter, deciding to state his support for civil unions but not “gay marriage.”

“Opposition to gay marriage was particularly strong in the black church, and as he ran for higher office, he grudgingly accepted the counsel of more pragmatic folks like me, and modified his position to support civil unions rather than marriage, which he would term a ‘sacred union,’” Axelrod outlines.

But he said that Obama never felt completely comfortable with the scheme.

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“Having prided himself on forthrightness, though, Obama never felt comfortable with his compromise and, no doubt, compromised position,” Axelrod states in his book. “He routinely stumbled over the question when it came up in debates or interviews.”

“I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman,” Obama said during a campaign interview with Rick Warren at Saddleback in 2008. “Now, for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God’s in the mix.”

However, the former adviser to the now U.S. president details that when Obama finally announced his support for same-sex “marriage,” he had already felt that way for years. There was no “evolution” of his views, Axelrod claims.

“Yet if Obama’s views were ‘evolving’ publicly, they were fully evolved behind closed doors,” he writes. “The president was champing at the bit to announce his support for the right of gay and lesbian couples to wed—and having watched him struggle with this issue for years, I was ready, too.”

As previously reported, in May 2012, Obama told reporters that his beliefs about the same-sex nuptials had “evolved.” During a national interview with ABC’s Robin Roberts, he explained, “[W]hen I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married.”

The White House has not denied Axelrod’s claims.

“[T]he firsthand account that he provides in the context of the book is not one that I would disagree with or quibble with,” Press Secretary Josh Earnest said on Tuesday. “He obviously is sharing his views as he remembers them. And sometimes his perspective is informed by his up-close, you know, front-row seat to history.”


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  • Peter Leh

    If so, how did he get reelected? Also you are saying the blacks would have voted for McCain instead of the first black nomination in history?

    • Tyler Mitchell

      Or the vast number of them just might not vote like they’ve done in the past.

  • Paul Hiett

    So…what does it matter if gays are allowed to marry? Does it affect anyone who isn’t gay? That’s a rhetorical question, obviously.

    • Tyler Mitchell

      Maybe they don’t wanna.. you know support a sinful lifestyle….what a novel idea huh?So what does it matter to you if they don’t wanna support it?

      • Ambulance Chaser

        What a ridiculous attempt to turn an argument back on someone. Yes, if you’re gay it affects you. Obviously.

    • Lesli Spice

      I believe I am a sinner. I don’t believe I have a right to judge someone. However, I believe I will be targeted by the gay agenda if I believe homosexuality is a sin. I believe that the gay agenda will teach young elementary school children that homosexuality is okay and if the children do not agree with that teaching, they will call these children out and intimidate them in the classroom. I believe men will use bathroom facilities that are for women and women will use bathroom facilities that are for men. I don’t believe this is just about marriage. I don’t believe anyone should be bullied who is a homosexual. I don’t believe anyone should be bullied if they own a Christian business and refuse to bake a wedding cake because it is against their beliefs. This is how it will affect all of us. It is a fallacy to think it is just about marriage. Christians will not be able to blend in with the world which may be a good thing. I have faith in Jesus Christ. I have faith in his resurrection. I want to do his will not my will and I pray for his wisdom and to love those even though we disagree.

      • Douglas

        I agree with you except for one thing. I believe it is a big misconception that Christians should not judge. I believe that we do have a right to judge, within the guidelines that God gave us. Many Christians have been wrongfully silenced through the “don’t judge” stance.

        • Paul Hiett

          I don’t think Christians have any stance about judging others. You’ve been doing it for about 2000 years, and only recently, and only in westernized countries, have those of use who aren’t Christians been able to stand up and say, ” no more”.

          • Douglas

            I’m sorry but I’m not interested. My comment was to Lesli.

          • Paul Hiett

            Of course you don’t, you don’t like to hear anything that goes against your perceived right to judge others.

          • Gary

            God has already judged you. Christians are just agreeing with God’s decision.

          • Paul Hiett

            That’s merely your opinion, and since you don’t speak for your god, I don’t think I’ll lose much sleep over it.

          • Gary

            God has already spoken for himself. But most people don’t read the Bible to learn what God said.

          • Paul Hiett

            I’ve probably read and studied the Bible far more than you, to be honest. That and the Koran and Torah too, as well as the texts of a few other religions. In fact, my study of other religions is a large part of what led me to become an atheist.

          • Gary

            I don’t think you have studied the Bible more than I have. Nevertheless, you did not believe what you read.

          • Badkey

            Gary… the buybull don’t matter in US civil law.

            Catch up, little guy.

          • Paul Hiett

            Growing up in the Bible belt, with two Presbyterian pastors in the family, not to mention the various religious courses I’ve taken, I’d say I’m safe in my statement. And you’re right, I don’t believe what I read in the BIble. There are too many things we know to be absolutely incorrect for me to accept it as a work of non-fiction.

          • Gary

            No, you don’t know that anything in the Bible is incorrect. You just want to believe it is incorrect.

          • Paul Hiett

            We know for a fact that the Flood, as described in the Bible, never happened. We know that Exodus never happened, since Egypt never had Jewish slaves.

            I can go on…

          • Badkey

            Gary will never believe you. Blind faith and hostility is all he has.

          • Paul Hiett

            The keys to a successful religion…

          • Gary

            You believe those things, but you don’t know them.

          • Paul Hiett

            No, we have facts to back these statements up. Actual facts…you know, science and stuff? You have a book written a few thousand years ago by men trying to record oral tradition.

            I’ll go with the facts, thanks.

          • Badkey

            What would you make the punishment for homosexuality if you could make it illegal?

          • Lesli Spice

            That is sad and just confirms that it is God who gives us understanding. When I study the bible, the more I read, the stronger I believe. The bible was written in parts, yet it all fits together and says the same thing over and over. The bible is the word. Jesus Christ walked this earth. Jesus Christ was crucified on a cross. Jesus Christ was resurrected and is alive and will return. There is life after physical death. Why would the apostles and the early Christians suffer so much for a lie? Why would Paul change from being someone with a high position, wealth, doing what he believed was right by persecuting followers of Jesus and then change to preaching the gospel all over Turkey he wrote most of the New Testament. It’s okay to ask questions. Hebrews 11:1. Your heart may be hardened now but God can change your heart.

          • Paul Hiett

            If you want to understand why those early Christians died for their beliefs, you need to also include those of the modern day who choose to die for their beliefs. Suicide bombers…you think those Muslims don’t believe, unequivocally, that their religion is right? Those in the Jonestown massacre…they believed. Jews in the Holocaust…they believed.

            Mass belief in a religion, and the propensity to die for such beliefs, is not a Christian only trait. It is clearly part of many societies with varying religious beliefs,,,but it is certainly not proof of a belief being “right”.

          • Lesli Spice

            You have a point. However, the deaths of the early Christians being fed to the lions or under Nero who used them as Roman Candles and blamed them for the fire in Rome, I don’t equate that to someone who chooses of their own will to strap a bomb on their body to kill as many people as they can. I see now you have a lot of activity on this website. I don’t think you are sincere but only you know what is in your heart. So all I will say is, I want to follow Jesus Christ, I want to be obedient to him, I want to put his will above my own, I want to love him more than I love my life, and I don’t want to bring him shame, I want to honor him.

          • Paul Hiett

            And I fully support your right to believe what you want. What I don’t support, is when those beliefs are used to dictate to others how to live.

            Someone willing to die for their religious beliefs is of no concern to me, unless they plan on doing so with a bomb strapped to themselves in a crowded place. Religion is a personal choice, nothing more.

          • Gary

            Are you a queer?

          • Paul Hiett

            No, but that hardly matters I think. However, based on your statement, I can see you’re just a bigot.

          • Gary

            So is God. And so are you, in case you did not know it.

          • Paul Hiett

            I don’t discriminate, or show intolerance for the lifestyles, sexual orientation, religious choices, or skin color of others. I don’t think you quite understand what the term “bigot” means.

          • Gary

            Of course you discriminate. Everyone does. The only question is, who do you discriminate for and against. You are intolerant of Christians.

          • Paul Hiett

            I’m intolerant of those who use their religion to try and dictate how others live. That’s not bigotry.

            And no, I truly don’t discriminate. I believe we’re all entitled to worship how we choose (as long as it affects no one else), believe what we want to believe, love whomever we want, and live our lives free from the judgement of others regardless of our personal choices in life.

            No where should anyone be allowed, or tolerated, to judge others and act upon those personal judgements.

          • Gary

            You are intolerant of those you view as intolerant. That is bigotry. You also judge others, even if you don’t think you do. But you have bad standards by which you judge.

          • Badkey

            You call for death of law-abiding citizens.

            I’d say Paul has a long way to go to stoop to your level.

          • Gary

            I do not call for the death of law-abiding citizens.

          • Badkey

            Should homosexuals be found in violation of civil law?

          • Gary

            If I had my way, homosexual behavior would be illegal.

          • Badkey

            What would the punishment be?

          • Paul Hiett

            And yet another reason why we need separation of Church and state.

          • Paul Hiett

            To be intolerant of intolerance is not that same as being a bigot. I really don’t think you have a grasp of the term.

          • Gary

            I think I do. Look up the definition.

          • James Grimes

            Paul, this is a Christian site and Christians here are encouraged to be intolerant of sin, depravity, Atheism, homosexuality, etc. You can visit an atheist site and be intolerant of us there, but to do so here is arrogance.

        • Oshtur

          1 Corinthians 5:12-13. The sins of those outside the church are between them and God, and not a Christians to judge – that’s limited to those in their church.

          • Lesli Spice

            Good verse.

          • Douglas

            It’s misused. How do you put away from yourself the evil person if you are not judging them? Either there is a big contradiction or your interpretation/understanding is wrong.

          • Oshtur

            You remove them from your church as in the example at the first part of the chapter. It’s the point of the chapter – differentiating how you deal with those in the church and those without. Christians can judge their own, the judgement of others is up to God.

          • Douglas

            Well I guess I would have to ask, what you mean by judgement? Do you think it’s wrong to acknowledge that someone is living in sin? Do you think it’s wrong to reach out to that person and try to help them by sharing the Gospel with them, or would you rather let them live and die in their sins? Remember John 14:6

          • Paul Hiett

            I think what you, and many Christians like you, don’t understand, is that we’re getting tired of being told how wrong we are for our beliefs, or lack thereof, or things that can’t be controlled, like sexual orientation.

            Many people in the world have differing viewpoints than you. It doesn’t make them wrong, it doesn’t make you right…you just disagree. Telling them how wrong they are and that they’re going to suffer in Hell for eternity is where we draw the line, and start speaking up.

          • Douglas

            I know this topic is tough but everyone cannot be right. I believe that there is a truth and that truth is found in Christ. That truth can save you. I’d be happy to go into this further if you want.

          • Paul Hiett

            No, not everyone can be right. The odds of anyone picking the “right” belief is astronomical. Any idea holds the same merit as another. This is why atheists use the Flying Spaghetti Monster as their example…it can’t be disproved, which is the only evidence any religion has as to the truth of their deity.

            I fully support your right to believe whatever you want, I just wish folks would stop using those beliefs to dictate to others how to live.

            In fact, the primary reason anyone believes what they do is where they are born and to whom. Truth is, if we were born in Iraq, we’d be Muslims. Born in India? Probably HIndu. Israel? Jewish.

            And yet, so many people love to stand up and point the finger of judgement at others for nothing more than a demographic accident.

          • Douglas

            That’s actually a false statement. There is a ton of evidence that validates the Bible and the truth of Christ. There is none that points to your flying spaghetti monster. In fact, it can be easily disproved because even you know that it is a fictional character. You said that you fully support our right to believe what we want but then you get upset that we have these beliefs. If you seek for truth, you will find that there is one and it’s not as hard to find as you think.

          • Paul Hiett

            If you accept the Bible as infallible, then sure, you can call it “proof” or “evidence”. However, the fact remains that the Bible is just the claim, and not the proof. Furthermore, there are many stories in the Bible that we now know never happened, which renders the Bible as a work of fiction.

            No, you can’t call the FSM a work of fiction. It could be true…since you can’t disprove it. In fact, I challenge you to prove the FSM doesn’t exist.

            I’m not upset you have beliefs…I’m upset when you use those beliefs to publicly judge others, and to use those beliefs to dictate to others how to live.

          • Extinction of Mankind by Manki

            And yet Atheist’s use self morality to judge Christians relentlessly. When looking at the Bible, the History of the Bible’s origin, and the scholars counting in the thousands that study the Bible, as well as other sources as evidence of Christ and God, your argument falls very short of the truth. I challenge you to find anything in science that could, or would be able to explain away God. The examples are quite overwhelming that intelligent people won’t state there is no God because it is an exercise in futility. If you want to get to the bottom of your claim, you will have to consider that Christ is the proof of God and the evidence is presented by the Bible and other writings during the time Christ through experience is found to be comparable and accurate. You have free choice so its unlikely any Christian or Christian Apologist would dictate how you live. The choices and experiences you make in life in no way show there is evidence that shows the Atheist creed is true. Actually in every discussion I have had with Atheist’s it goes to show that Atheism is just a crude form of rebellion. Nothing more, nothing less.

          • Paul Hiett

            First, never capitalize “atheist” or “atheism”, as it’s not a pronoun.

            When it comes to judging others, Christians need to sit down for a while. You’ve been doing it to others for about 1800 years, give or take. Atheists have only really been able to speak up publicly for a few decades without fear of reprisal…and only in more westernized countries. Try claiming you’re an atheist in Iran or Afghanistan these days.

            As for your claim that Jesus is proof of God, it’s a circular argument. You’re using the claim as proof of the claim, and that doesn’t fly in a debate. The lack of evidence to support God is not proof of yours or any other deity. Intelligent people understand this, and don’t try to use the same arguments you are currently attempting to use.

            Science cannot explain away that which cannot be proven to exist in the first place. It’s like trying to explain to a 5 year old that there’s no scientific explanation as to how Santa Claus can deliver toys so fast around the world. Yet, that same 5 year old “knows” that Santa exists, do they not?

            Finally, atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in deities. Nothing more. Anything definition of atheism beyond that is false.

          • Extinction of Mankind by Man

            In reality there should be no argument. If what you say about Atheism is true (the common definition of such) then you and your brethren disagree. Here is an example of an Atheist comment to me. (As for cap’s on the word Atheist, I’ll be the judge on how I type it. I’m going to give you another example of what Scientists have commited themselves to: “Atheists dont have an agenda. It exists as a counter to your attempted totalitarianism. It is a check and balance void of ideology. Its a defense to religious oppression.” At least he was brave enough to tell the truth about Atheism. Now lets looks at what scientists explain about God: Published in Nature. It revealed that 40% of American physicists, biologists and mathematicians believe in God–and not just some metaphysical abstraction, but a deity who takes an active interest in our affairs and hears our prayers: the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.”(1)

            The degree to which the constants of physics must match a precise criteria is such that a number of agnostic scientists have concluded that there is some sort of “supernatural plan” or “Agency” behind it. Here is what they say:

            Scientific Testamony of God and Fine Tuning.

            Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): “A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question.” (2)

            George Ellis (British astrophysicist): “Amazing fine tuning occurs in the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use the word ‘miraculous’ without taking a stand as to the ontological status of the word.” (3)

            Paul Davies (British astrophysicist): “There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all….It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe….The impression of design is overwhelming”. (4)

            Paul Davies: “The laws [of physics] … seem to be the product of exceedingly ingenious design… The universe must have a purpose”. (5)

            Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): “I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing.” (6)

            John O’Keefe (astronomer at NASA): “We are, by astronomical standards, a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in.” (7)

            George Greenstein (astronomer): “As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency – or, rather, Agency – must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?” (8)

            Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): “The idea of a universal mind or Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present state of scientific theory.” (9)

            Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): “Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say ‘supernatural’) plan.” (10)

            Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): “I would say the universe has a purpose. It’s not there just somehow by chance.” (11)

            Tony Rothman (physicist): “When confronted with the order and beauty of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it’s very tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it.” (12)

            Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): “The exquisite order displayed by our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the divine.” (13)

            Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): “For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.” (14)

            Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): “Then we shall… be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason – for then we would know the mind of God.” (15)

            Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): “When I began my career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable logic of my own special branch of physics.” (16) Note: Tipler since has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The Physics of ChristianityThe Physics of Christianity.

            Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): “We know that nature is described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created it.”(17)

            Ed Harrison (cosmologist): “Here is the cosmological proof of the existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one…. Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the teleological or design argument.” (18)

            Edward Milne (British cosmologist): “As to the cause of the Universe, in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but our picture is incomplete without Him [God].” (19)

            Barry Parker (cosmologist): “Who created these laws? There is no question but that a God will always be needed.” (20)

            Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): “This type of universe, however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial conditions that is in apparent conflict with ‘common wisdom’.” (21)

            Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981 Nobel Prize in physics): “It seems to me that when confronted with the marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how. The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God in the universe and in my own life.” (22)

            Henry “Fritz” Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the University of Georgia): “The significance and joy in my science comes in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to myself, ‘So that’s how God did it.’ My goal is to understand a little corner of God’s plan.” (23)

            Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) “I find it as difficult to understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science.” (24)

            Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) “Life in Universe – rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100 billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be entirely unique.” (25)

            There Is a God: How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His MindAntony Flew (Professor of Philosophy, former atheist, author, and debater) “It now seems to me that the findings of more than fifty years of DNA research have provided materials for a new and enormously powerful argument to design.” (26)

            Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): “From the perspective of the latest physical theories, Christianity is not a mere religion, but an experimentally testable science.” (27)

            Notice Antony Flew: One of the most hard core Atheist’s in our life time. Once these gentlemen see complexity and the Fine Tuning mechanisms in place, they clearly cannot maintain the thought that your definition of Atheism has any merit. Many fellow Agnostics are in a position to be more open about the studies of design principles and are working toward theories that are authentic confirmations that there is God.

          • Oshtur

            Again it’s like I’m not talking to Christians, we are all sinners we teach by example not by hypocritically cataloging someone else’s sin. The Spirit is the cause of their change not the hen pecking of their sins.

            I acknowledge I am living in sin, absent you’re claiming you’re God I assume you are too. I repent them regularly but golly gee they just keep happening in one form or another. No one witnesses by just cataloging someone else’s failings in the eyes of God they include theirs too each and every time. Well they do if they don’t want to be a hypocrite anyway.

          • Douglas

            As a Christian, you have taken on Christ and have been washed of your sins, so you should no longer be living in sin. Again, I think it comes down to the use of the word judge that confuses most people. It’s a broad term.

          • Oshtur

            We are shielded from it by Grace but I still walk by the poor without helping at times, I have harsh thoughts for the driver of the car that cut me off on the freeway, I still notice a good looking person other than my spouse. I’m forgiven, not perfect.

            But what I do know is that the sins of those of this world are God’s to judge, not ours as per the word of God.

          • Douglas

            That’s fine as long as you know that God judges righteously and tells us that all who are not in Christ will not be saved.

          • Oshtur

            Which is fine with me, I an to witness, the Spirit saves. I am more than happy to leave the judgement of the throne in God’s hands.

          • Douglas

            See, now you are talking about a completely different type of judgement, which is why I asked earlier what you meant by judgement. I’m not interested in word games.

          • Oshtur

            Again judging others of the church by the standards of the church is allowed, judging of those of this world is reserved for God.

          • Fundisi

            When you defend those things that God condemns like homosexuality, you are guilty of sin, an enemy of God and you hate homosexuals, because you would rather have them dead and in hell than repent and be healed.

          • Oshtur

            God never made a blanket condemnation of hetero- or homosexuality. Every single time same-sex activity is alluded to heterosexuality would be just as sinful.

            Gay Christians marry just fine.

          • Fundisi

            Wrong and wholly anti-Christ.

            Romans One: “24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 IN THE SAME WAY the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

            That does not mean God approves of any sin nor any sexual misconduct by heterosexuals like adultery or fornication outside the marriage bed either, they are all condemned. But, one can repent of these other sins and decide to turn away from those sins, if they are born again of Christ; but one cannot repent of homosexuality without a truthful desire to stop that sinful activity, repentance means agreeing with God it is a a sin and having a sincere desire to escape that sinful conduct. You homosexuals cannot repent and yet have no desire to stop, you cannot repent and say God approves of your sin at the same time.

            This is God’s condemnation of homosexuality and lesbianism. You cannot find even one passage of Scripture wherein God ever speaks in a positive way about homosexuality or ever describes marriage as meaning anything other than between people of the same gender.

          • Oshtur

            Yes idolators punished by God with going against their natures. Not about gay people not about married gay Christians.

          • Fundisi

            Those passage clearly describes Lesbianism and homosexual sexual conduct and only such homosexual conduct. Yes, God does equate homosexuality and lesbianism with idolatry, it is after all self love, it is total rebellion against God. But, these passages talk about and against sexual conduct with people of the same gender and because of it, God no longer restrained them and listed every sin you folk commit as a result of that sinful rebellion. He then promises His wrath upon you unless you repent, which means stop that sinful behavior.

            Okay, prove me wrong – show me just one passage, one clear passage wherein God ever mentions homosexual conduct as anything other than sin, where He gives His approval. Show me just one clear passage wherein He calls marriage anything but a union of a man and a woman.

          • Oshtur

            Read the whole chapter these we’re worshippers of animal-headed gods turned over by God to these activities.

            Lie better if you are going to prevaricate.

          • Fundisi

            So, you are saying that ONLY if homosexuals are engaged in such idol worship is it a sin, if they are not engaging in such idol worship it is okay? Yet, why does God then describe homosexual conduct and Lesbianism in such condemning terms, calling it, the act “sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity,” “the degrading of their bodies with one another,” “shameful lusts,” “inflamed with lust for one another,” and “shameful acts with other men?” He is thus talking about sexual relations with people of their own gender, an abandoning of “natural” relations for “unnatural relations.” What does He say should happen to such vile creatures? “The due penalty for their error.” He does not use these terms for any other conduct but homosexual conduct, these are very strong terms in condemnation of these shameful acts.

            Further, how does that set of passages begin, before He talks about idolatry? “18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.” Then and only then does He say that such wicked people, of whom He later includes lesbianism and homosexuality, because they/you were so wicked, they/you turned to idolatry, of which homosexuality is a form, being self love.

            Now where did I lie?

          • Oshtur

            No, these idolators were punished by God with these desires, the word ‘turn over’ is as in the context of ‘as a jailer turns over his prisoners’. These people were made this way by God, made to go against their natures – straight. It isn’t even talking about gay and lesbian people as that would be consistent with their natures.

          • Douglas

            I know the verses but I don’t agree with your interpretation. I am not saying that I am right, but it’s not how I read it. Verse 13 as you noted states:

            “Therefore put away from yourselves the evil person.”

            How do you know who is evil if you are not judging. And if you made that judgement, are you not judging one who is outside the church? Do you not judge in your heart even if you do not say it openly? The bible tells us to judge many times. The question is the use of the word judge.

          • Oshtur

            I don’t see how you can – it specifically differentiates between those in your church and those without. The judgement of ‘wicked’ is for your church members, not those of this world.

          • Douglas

            The church is the body of all believers, not a specific place or building. We are to remove the evil person from among us, which implies that we have to make a judgement. Once they are removed, are we suppose to be okay with them and no longer judge them since they are now outside? It just doesn’t make sense.

            The question is how are we to share the gospel and speak of repentance if we aren’t allowed to tell an unbeliever that they are doing something wrong? Look at Mark 2:17.

          • Paul Hiett

            What if you let others live their lives as they see fit?

          • Fundisi

            So stay silent and let them go to hell out of ignorance about what God demands? That is not love!

          • Badkey

            It’s respect. You don’t have a clue what love is.

            You’re all about condemnation, guilt, punishment, and venom.

          • Fundisi

            Oh, like Jesus who called sin to be sin, listing those sins like sexual immorality, like calling people serpents, kicking over money changers tables, driving people out with a whip, warning people of hell, you mean that is not love?

            You are wrong, it is about warning people in the Love of God that they are guilty of sin, waring them of the consequencs of that sin, that some might repent, find Christ and be healed. It is not covering up sin, not tolerating sin, but calling a sick, dying world to repentance.

          • Badkey

            Jesus is your choice. Shoving it on others makes you no better (though less violent) than muslims.

          • Fundisi

            So condemning sin, calling people to repentance and salvation, is just like Muslims forcing people to convert?

            By the way you never did respond to that fact that Jesus did not meet your definition of a Christian.

          • Badkey

            Sin is a construct of your mythology… it’s meaningless otherwise.

            So yes, it’s the same, just less violent. You believe, as do muslims, that people have no right to live their lives as they wish free of input from religious dogma.

            Jesus would be a jew… not a christian, according to the myth.

          • Oshtur

            It makes perfect sense in religiously pluralistic society like Rome and America. Everyone then and now has a right to NOT be a follower of Christ. Judge your own Gid judges the rest.

            Mark 2:27 is about a Jew talking about Jews, again about judging their own. No mention of Gentikes there.

            And that’s it, Christians share the Gospel, they don’t stand someone up against a holy yardstick one they can’t measure up to themselves. Once some one is saved, then you can measure, but Christians are specifically told it’s not their job to judge those of this world. Usurping God’s declared providence isn’t something a Christian would do.

          • Fundisi

            Boy, I guess Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, Peter, John and others were just not Christians then when they called people to repent, called them sinners, serpents, adulterers, etc., right? Sorry, I always thought Jesus was a perfect Christian, but you are saying He was not.

            It would be nice if you were not an enemy of Christ and actually knew what the Bible teaches. (a) We are not to make hypocritical judgments, we are first to make sure we are not similarly guilty. We do not say someone is an adulterer, if we commit adultery for instance. (b) We are not to judge someone worthy of death because they are caught in sin and stone them, when we are all guilty of sins worthy of death. (c) We are called to make righteous judgments, it is the only way to know what is good or evil and to test the spirits of men to see if they are of Christ, or like you, of the devil.

          • Oshtur

            Actually Paul specifically said it wasn’t the place of Christians to judge those of this world. But then I’ve known for a long time you just make up what you want regardless of the Truth.

            Discussion with you is pointless.

          • Fundisi

            Why, because I will not submit to your lies about God’s Word and condone homosexuality and gay marriage?

            Judging others: http://www.gotquestions.org/do-not-judge.html

            But, any discussion with you is pointless.

          • Oshtur

            More words of man, you are addicted to them.

          • Fundisi

            What about the scriptural passages, Where is your biblical refutation? No, you just condemn the source out of hand because it does not support your homosexuality.

          • Oshtur

            What about all the passages that don’t support this construct of man? No one of Spirit is fooled by conniving like that.

          • Fundisi

            The ball is in your court – prove him wrong. That is so easy, pull out the passages wherein God clearly condones homosexuality, I’ make it easier, where God even strongly hints it is not a sin. Pull out those passages where God ever clearly describes marriage as ever being between people of the same gender. Now go – get them passages and those refuting the passages and conclusions of the person writing at the link I gave you.

            I am waiting!

          • Oshtur

            That’s easy, where He says that there is no male or female in the body of Christ – gay Christians marry just fine. But it is odd, you look for God to condoning when we are looking for condemnation. God didn’t condone flying in planes, or surgical interventions or blood transfusions, Christians aren’t keeping a ledger of infractions and ‘atta boys’ we have been given specific instructions on what we are supposed to do, instructions that married Christians can do gay or straight.

          • Fundisi

            A. There is not one word therein that condones homosexuality or Lesbianism. This passage does not speak of homosexuals at all, you failed to offer a clear passage that approves of homosexuality, wherein the actual words speak to that matter.
            B. That passage only talks about the spiritual state of the Church and our privileges therein. Yet, one cannot erase the idea that females were not allowed to speak in the Church, that wives were to submit to their husbands, it does not erase the fact that God condemned both homosexuality and lesbianism as being sexual immorality. So differences did remain in the natural state of things, but this alludes to the idea that there is no marrying in heaven, no difference before God between men and women in their spiritual inheritance.

          • Oshtur

            There is not one word with a blanket condemnation you mean. Each reference is in am I text that heterosexuality would be equally as sinful.

            And you are mistaken about Galatians, it would have been referenced for a marriage between a master and slave, it works just as well for the unimportance of male and female.

            Gay Christians marry just fine and can do what God asked of us as well as any other Christian with the gift of the Spirit and Grace. As you not d it is a thing of this world and there will be no “male or female” in the next life, we will be as the angels in heaven.

          • Fundisi

            This will be, I hope, my last discussion of this issue with you. It serves no purpose to go on and on, I know and appreciate that you must defend your homosexuality, even though you cannot find a single passage in the Bible that clearly mentions or describes homosexuality in a positive context and the few places you choose to use as a basis for your arguments, are not in harmony with the teachings of the traditional Jewish or Christian faiths, indeed that conduct even being condemned within Islam. You are reduced to forcing things into scripture which are not plainly there and which are contradicted by thousands of years of faith and the Holy Scriptures.

            If God is a God of Love and if He does not condemn homosexuality, why did this loving God never clearly correct His Church in this error, which if it was not condemned by Him, being allowed to be accepted by His children as being condemned, he has caused much pain and agony for homosexuals? Is that love? If it was not sin, did He not have a most holy obligation, knowing it was and would be condemned by His children, to bring correction, at the very least by Jesus? The fact that the Church has always taught it was condemned, means God either was allowing homosexuals to be persecuted without cause, which is hate and not love or He wanted it known that He did condemn that lifestyle choice as being sexually immoral. Why would He physically create men and women that they might multiply, but approve of the use of those sexual organs for purposes that deviated from that design and purpose?

            I Corinthians 6: “9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.…”

            If they were formerly these things and were delivered, why would He deliver them if it was acceptable?

            Scripture:
            Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

            Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of …

            Deuteronomy 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite …

            1 Timothy 1:10 For fornicators, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for …

            Why did God, if gay marriage is okay with Him, never define marriage as being acceptable between people of the same gender? Why did He say that a man and a woman shall be united and become one-flesh before Him, but never two people of the same gender?

            There is mercy in God and homosexuals have access to that mercy, but mercy requires, it demands repentance, which by definition is not begging for forgiveness, but agreeing with God about sin and turning from that sin by His power; but, homosexuals like you want to repent, without forsaking the sin of homosexuality; you want forgiveness, but not on the true and only basis for repentance – stop the sin.

            Now there is no use responding, I have made my case in every way possible, I understand the power of the sinful sexual desires within you, your not wanting to forsake them and your not wanting to suffer hell for your sins; but, God will not be mocked, you cannot by twisting scripture ever force God, in His Word, to say homosexuality is not a sin or that He approves of gay marriage. To do so, you are only deceiving yourself and that to your everlasting peril.

          • Jeff Varney

            I agree, Fundisi. I spoke with James Grimes earler about righteous judgment when I told him that we should judge people on the basis/content of one’s personality, character, and heart and not judge anyone (as James, the brother of Jesus, warned us in chapter 2 and verse 9) according to their outward appearances.

    • Gary

      A man can only marry a woman. ssm is perversion and if approved by society, it will rot the morality of that society. And it is.

      • MattFCharlestonSC

        A man can marry a man, a woman can marry a woman. SSM is a fact of life which is already approved by all of society that doesn’t exist in an inbred hick bubble town, the only thing that will rot is your generation of haters because you’re going to die out completely within the next few decades. Enjoy the rest of your life.

        • Gary

          Only people who are both wicked and insane think a man can marry a man, or a woman can marry a woman. America is finished. It is rotting from within.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            Or, life will go on and acceptance will filter through to all of the little hick towns around the country as there are less and less people to stand in the doorway of progress.

          • Gary

            As long as there are Christians around, there will be opposition to homosexuality in all its forms.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            Homophobes will more and more be looked at just like racists. Being mocked and ridiculed. The Church has caved to societal pressure before, and it will happen again.

          • Gary

            What you call “The Church” has already caved. But real Christians have not. And won’t.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            We’ve already been over this Gary. Generational turnover is real.

          • Badkey

            Come on… What would you make the punishment for homosexuality if you could make it illegal?

  • Oshtur

    Hmm actually the title is slander. He was quite clear that he wouldn’t advocate for marriage equality. Yes in forums like this people misquoted that he was against it, but that is not what he said.

    Then Senator Obama was quite clear this was about timing in an Advocate article.

    That this is a revelation just means people weren’t listening, not that he ‘lied’. People who get there news only from biased sources or sound bites never get the real picture.

    • Tyler Mitchell

      Did you know read the article?It says an Obama AIDE!!!! made these claims…nothing in this article is very “shocking” or “biased”..

      • Oshtur

        Yes I did read the article, “the aide” never said he lied. That is a convenient distortion by this article’s author. Logs and specks are the order of the day it seems.

        • thoughtsfromflorida

          It doesn’t matter that the information in the article doesn’t support the headlines.

          They put out an article with a title claiming that Obama lied and deceived, yet the very headline is a lie and its purpose is to deceive.

          The hypocrisy is amazing.

  • Gary

    I knew Obama was lying all the time. He was born lying and has never stopped.

    • MattFCharlestonSC

      Please locate me an honest politician.

      • Gary

        They are harder to find than a sober catholic, or Episcopalian.

        • Badkey

          Why won’t you answer, Gary?

          What would you make the punishment for homosexuality if you could make it illegal?

          • Paul Hiett

            I doubt you’ll get an answer. That said, I think Gary likes Iran’s system of dealing with homosexuals.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            In South Carolina, we deal with homos with brunch.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            BRUNCH???? NOT BRUNCH!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

            Oh, wait, I love brunch. Never mind.

          • pax2u

            gary is probably busy cleaning his gun, and ironing his hood and sheets

          • Gary

            I would make the punishment what God said to make it: capital punishment for homosex.

          • Badkey

            Ah, so there it is folks! Gary would put gay citizens to death!

            Screen shot taken. Thanks my friend!

          • Fundisi

            Let us say Gary is wrong about capital punishment for homosexuality, does that fact make homosexuality any less sinful or the eventual penalty under the Hand of God any better?

            Also, while I do disagree with Gary on this point, God did call for stoning in the Old Testament and He says such people, absent repentance, will suffer everlasting punishing/death in the New Testament. So, while I wold never support capital punishment or even denying them their rights as citizens, absent repentance, or treating them in a mean spirited way in our daily lives, according to God’s Word, the end results will be the same – death/hell.

          • Badkey

            Sin… “god’s word”… all part of something you have by choice. Nothing more.

            God is another word for fear and control. Nothing more.

          • Fundisi

            Thanks for proving my point!

          • Badkey

            Thanks for proving mine. You’re not interested in choice anymore than muslims.

          • Harry Oh!

            Someday you’re gonna know far more about God than you’ll want.

          • pax2u

            Gary is mentally ill, and his supporters will provoke him to do something that may be violent

          • Jeff Varney

            Gary, I wouldn’t go that far on this, but it should be given to them IF they committed heinous physical murder on anyone like that atheist did to 3 Muslims in Chapel Hill, NC.

        • James Grimes

          Gary, I see the liars are out in force against you. Stay strong, Brother.

      • pax2u

        Gary, who supports the hate of the Westboro Baptist Church will want anyone who disagrees with him executed by the Government

        • Jeff Varney

          Pax, I disagree with the teachings and the doctrine(s) of Westboro and I will absolutely, positively, and definitely have nothing to do with them whatsoever. They have added something to or took something away from the Scriptures to suit their own purposes and agendas, so let’s make sure we and our churches/congregations don’t do the same thing they did.

      • Jeff Varney

        I’ll give you two of many for example, Matt: Ted Cruz and Mike Lee.

        • dark477

          Oh that’s cute, they’ve lied as well

          • Jeff Varney

            I didn’t ask you and I wasn’t talking to you, Darky, so quit horning in. Is your name “Matt”? I didn’t think so either.

          • dark477

            I’m just saying you’re wrong about those two never lying.

          • Jeff Varney

            Poor Darky! He thinks he knows all the answers but he hasn’t asked all the questions (just yet)! As for the majority of us here, we don’t know everything but only one man does. Guess who that is! Hint: it’s not any of us here on this site.

        • Jeff Varney

          I’ll give you a several more names, Matt: Louie Gohmert, Allen West, Rand Paul, Tim Scott, Sarah Palin, Jim Bunning (retired), Justin Amash, Jim Jordan, and Joni Ernst.

    • James Grimes

      When one does not tell the whole truth, they are lying.

    • Lupe

      Yessir. I knew the lad to be a liar when I heard him talking to that Warren character. I had a hard time listening to him. I could only take about 2 minutes then I was done. As time goes on he becomes bolder in his lies and continute to treat us like idiots. I just hope we can survive his last two years.

  • Peter Leh

    to claim a politician is lying is the easiest most un newsworthy accusation ever

    • thoughtsfromflorida

      But you don’t understand. It doesn’t matter if every politician does it. It doesn’t matter if every Tea Party candidate does it. It doesn’t matter if every Republican candidate does it. It doesn’t matter if every Conservative candidate does it. It only matters that Obama did it and thus, on a site dedicated to never missing an opportunity to criticize Obama, it is news. Big, big news.

      • Peter Leh

        yep. In the meantime we think we are being christian by being political but in reality the politics are distracting from what a christian should be doing.

        The result is idolatry

  • Fundisi

    Obama has always lied, he has always deceived, he has always been pro-gay and pro-gay marriage, but he held back to get elected, to gain power, why is anyone shocked. This man is an anti-Christ!

    • Paul Hiett

      You really think Obama is the anti-Christ?

      • Fundisi

        No, the operative word is “an.” The Lord tells us there will be many that come into the world, shadows, types, in the spirit of.

        • Paul Hiett

          I’m not up on that verse of the Bible…where is said that many anti-Christs will appear?

          • Fundisi

            I John 2: “18Children,
            it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming,
            even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is
            the last hour.”

          • Paul Hiett

            Thank you, but I don’t see that as part of Revelation, only in John, which is not exactly a representation of present day events. I fail to see how this statement qualifies Obama to be an anti-Christ?

          • Fundisi

            John was speaking prophetically and “the last hour,” surely points to this time in history. Obama is an anti-Christ because he pretends a Christian faith, while his every word and deed opposes Christ and promotes every sort of evil like homosexuality, gay marriage, abortion, the lie of separation of Church and State, defends Islam and hates Israel. That is the lying spirit of the anti-Christ.

  • Badkey

    A politician lied?! OMG!!!

    I’m glad I didn’t vote for the guy, but I do thank his administration for assisting with the gains of gay marriage in the US!

    Thanks Barry, but I’d never vote for you.

  • Paul Hiett

    I’m curious as to how many on here believe that sexual orientation is just a choice?

    • Fundisi

      Homosexual conduct is always a choice!

      • Paul Hiett

        That’s not what I asked. Do you think sexual orientation is a choice?

        • Badkey

          Good luck.

          • Paul Hiett

            I often wonder if they understand the difference.

          • Badkey

            They choose not to understand the difference.

            They believe being gay is only behavior. That if you’re only attracted to the same gender your whole life, but never act on it, you’re not gay.

        • Fundisi

          No one is born homosexual, we are by Divine design heterosexuals. By sin in them, some people are inclined towards sexual lusts for people of the same gender and rather than get the help they need to reject those evil lusts, they, like all sinners, choose to give in to these lusts, thus homosexuality is a choice. It is the same for a child molester, they are not born child molesters, but sin in them causes them to have deviant desires for sexual relations with children and they choose rather than getting help to control those desires, to give in to them.

          Now you folk get to rage that I am saying all homosexuals are child molesters – I am not. But they are the same that enticed by evil desires they both give in to those evil desires, they choose to engage in deviant sexual lusts.

          Now I give you permission tho throw fit.

          • Badkey

            No one is born christian, muslim, or jew are they? It’s nothing but a choice.

            Comparing child molesters to consenting adults shows how tiny your mentality really is.

            No fit to be thrown…

          • Paul Hiett

            Actually, one could argue that Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc ARE born that way…when they are born into a family, they are indoctrinated into that family’s religious beliefs.

          • Badkey

            It’s not an innate trait… they must be taught, and can change at will.

          • Paul Hiett

            Most behaviors are taught, true. Sexual orientation is certainly not one of them, but religious beliefs are.

            That said, ones religion is usually nothing more than a demographic accident.

          • James Grimes

            Fundisi, you’re being criticized again. Remember, he has a “husband.”

          • Badkey

            Why does the legal recognition of my marriage bother you so?

          • James Grimes

            If this was a secular site, you would hear nothing about it from me. Since you are spewing your nonsense here on a Christian site, I will resist your depraved lifestyle.

          • Badkey

            This is an open forum, friend. Not sure what you’re “resisting”, I’m not pushing anything on you.

            Now, why does my marriage bother you so?

          • pax2u

            he condemns most Christians as apostate, and has no denominational doctrine and has a theology of hatred of Christians

          • pax2u

            I find it interesting that those who proclaim that this is a Christian site, proclaim that Catholics are not Christians, and that all of the main line denominations are apostate, so in there sad sick mind they are the only Christians, since Jesus Christ, so very sad

          • James Grimes

            “I find it interesting that those who proclaim that this is a Christian site, proclaim that Catholics are not Christians” If one follows the teachings of the RCC, then they are apostate “Christians.

            “all of the main line denominations are apostate” True. Do your research.

            ” in there sad sick mind they are the only Christians, since Jesus Christ, so very sad” This is incoherent. Try again.
            Since you barged into a conversation without an invite, at least make your comment understandable.

          • pax2u

            sorry I did not post to you so I need no invite,

            I am not surprised that you have no denomination, the lunatic fringe will always be alone, and ignored as the “useless”

          • James Grimes

            More incoherence. You write as though your are an idi0t.

          • pax2u

            I pray to my Christian God Jesus Christ for your eternal soul. amen

          • pax2u

            I will continue to pray to my Christian God, Jesus Christ for your eternal soul, amen

            you are a very sad little man

          • The Last Trump

            How very sad that Pax2u has come forward to publically support LGBT groups with EVERY post. Before Almighty God Pax has renounced his “Christianity” and taken his stand with those who despise God and the Bible. Most of his up-votes, if not ALL, come from the LGBT supporters trolling this site who he consistently supports with up-votes as well, which is a very telling testimony before God and man making it absolutely undeniable about the side Pax has chosen.
            May God have mercy on the immortal soul of the apostate Pax2u.

            Very sad to see from Pax. 🙁

          • Fundisi

            He has always been about hate, about condoning sin and attacking people of faith. The evidence is all against him ever having been born again, of having a new life in Christ. It is sad, he is self deluded and like you I can only pray for mercy for him and pray he repents and finds Christ before it is too late.

          • James Grimes

            Paxy is so desperate for attention, he will (has?) sell (sold) his soul for it. He lies through his teeth. Unfortunately, it is obvious that his options are very limited. Poor man.

          • Jeff Varney

            There are more like Paxy who are like him, James…don’t forget that. They need our prayers.

          • James Grimes

            Yes, you are correct. We cannot forget that.

          • pax2u

            I pray for the Bigots who hate Christians, and have no denominational doctrine, and a theology of hatred

          • Badkey

            What I find funny is that @James Grimes isn’t even man enough to confront me directly, he can only make snide comments without directly discussing his angst and frustration with me. So much for James being a man.

          • pax2u

            I am always amused when he posts to himself, I think he suffers from multiple personality disorder,

            no wonder that he has no denomination, who would accept his hatred of Christians

          • James Grimes

            James Grimes Badkey • 24 minutes ago

            “If this was a secular site, you would hear nothing about it from me. Since you are spewing your nonsense here on a Christian site, I will resist your depraved lifestyle.”

            If I wasn’t addressing you, which troll was I addressing?

          • Badkey

            That’s not what I asked you sweetie.

            Why does government recognition of my marriage bother you so? How has it affected your life?

          • pax2u

            poor jimmy grimmy is to be pitied, but then he supports crazy Gary who wants the government to execute those who he hates, including me,

            But poor crazy gary is not smart enough to understand the difference between a civil penalty and a criminal penalty, so very sad

          • pax2u

            he is a coward, who wants to condemn anyone who disagrees with him, no wonder he has no Christian denomination, who would agree with his hatred of Christians

          • James Grimes

            Fundisi, want some entertainment. Look at the rants from the two clowns below.

          • Badkey

            Come on sugar… why does government recognition of my marriage bother you so?

            How has it affected you?

            Come on big boy… don’t be a coward.

          • pax2u

            he is over his head and needs to call in his fellow bigot

          • Fundisi

            I feel nothing but sorrow and I most sincerely feel great pity for these lost souls, these Christ haters, these children of the Devil. I wish I had the Wisdom and by the Power of the Spirit could see them released from the bondage to evil spirits in them, to see them find salvation in Christ and eternal life with God. I have witnessed every day more and more of their kind coming here solely to attack and spread their hate against Christians, I have seen these blasphemers, these agents of hell come here to spread their filth, to try and deceive souls and promote wickedness and it grieves my heart that they are so bound with their hate and evil. Yet, we know we are engaged in spiritual warfare against the enemies of Christ, so none of their evil takes us by surprise. May God forgive them.

            I am also sorry that this site is not more aggressive in moderating their foul language and their vile sexual references when flagged.

          • Badkey

            What vile language? Sexual references?

          • pax2u

            vile language?, like wanting to have the Government execute homosexuals, some Catholics, and me? that kind of vile language

            I am sure that they are not happy that they can not execute those who do not agree with their hatred,

            no wonder that they belong to no denomination, who would accept their anger, and their theology of hatred

            all Christians should pray to our Christian God Jesus Christ for their eternal souls, amen

          • pax2u

            I am sure they miss their “good ole days” when they could ride around in their sheets and hoods and give a rope to those who they hate, and then they would call themselves good “christians”

          • pax2u

            we are told to pray for, and forgive those who hate us and wish us harm

          • James Grimes

            I feel the same, but know I am powerless unless the Lord works in me. I know He does not want me to tolerate these infidels, so I am in opposition to them. I won’t waste my time on their nonsense. Usually, I just ignore them, but sometimes I call them out and tell it as it is.

            I appreciate your efforts here. You are a solid Christian.

          • Fundisi

            “Dear Lord, give James your strength and courage to do battle with the forces of darkness and in his opposing the spirits of hell in these poor lost souls. Fill him afresh each day with your Spirit, flow into Him with your wisdom, make Him stand fast in the Faith.”

            I ignore several of them more and more, remembering that I am dealing with the demons in them that are at war with Christ and I am not willing to entertain demons.

          • Badkey

            Demons? BWA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAA!

          • pax2u

            I am afraid that they have demons in their head

            I will pray to my Christian God Jesus Christ for their eternal soul

          • James Grimes

            Demons need to be exorcised. They can’t be pandered. Oh, BTW, look at Badkey demanding that I give him an explanation. Silly man.

          • Badkey

            Come on Jamesy-poo… why does my marriage bother you so? How does it affect you or your marriage?

          • pax2u

            maybe he is mentally insecure,

            I pray that Jesus Christ forgives him

          • The Last Trump

            Hello James!
            Ignoring them is definitely the best policy. Their comments seldom, if ever, add anything of any value to these discussions. And they are interested in NOTHING that we have to say. And we’ve all wasted so much time in endless exchanges with them that accomplished nothing.
            Engaging them is an exercise in futility. Truthfully, they simply crave our attention. Drives them nuts when we DON’T respond! We just need to direct our posts to the general community and to each other. Rebuke the foolish where appropriate and then move on. Their own ridiculous rants is enough to show everyone here what they represent.

            “Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him” Proverbs 26:4.
            Can’t argue with that!
            God bless. 🙂

          • James Grimes

            I love the verse from Proverbs. It really keeps me from wasting my time here. It’s amazing at the incoherence here. The Atheists’ attempt to use Scripture as a weapon is sad too, because they lock onto a verse in which they really do not understand. In reality, though, many of the depraved here are entertaining. I do feel sorry for them as they reject what we have accepted. Blessings for your perseverance. It is appreciated.

          • The Last Trump

            Ignoring them is definitely the best policy. Their comments seldom, if ever, add anything of any value to these discussions. And they are interested in NOTHING we have to say. And we’ve all wasted so much time in endless exchanges with them that accomplished nothing.
            Engaging them is an exercise in futility. Truthfully, they simply crave our attention. Drives them nuts when we DON’T respond! We just need to direct our posts to the general community and to each other. Rebuke the foolish where appropriate and then move on. Their own ridiculous rants is enough to show everyone here what they represent.

            “Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him” Proverbs 26:4.
            Can’t argue with that!
            God bless. 🙂

          • Badkey

            Ignoring us is what landed you where you are with gay marriage.

            Thanks!!!

          • pax2u

            I am thankful that they are silenced, they now realize that their hatred is not Christian,

            I will continue to pray for them, I am sad that they are not Christians, have no denominational doctrine, they are the “useless” lunatic fringe

          • pax2u

            they are ignored, they belong to no denomination, who would accept them

          • lynn

            I am pretty sure I read that God said that His word would not return to Him void. So it is very important for those who would proclain His word to be patient and keep on keeping on. Who knows how or when God might empower what has been said to bring the hearer to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ our Lord? As for me, I truly believe Jesus died and was resurected for me. That it took Him giving His life here on earth to save a poor lost sinner such as I was. As long as a person has the breath of life there is hope. Never give up on a poor lost soul while you can still tell them about Jesus. Pray fr them, and if it is well with you, pray for this old man.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Dear Lord, give Fundisi your strength and courage to do battle with the forces of darkness and in his opposing the spirits of hell in this poor lost soul. Fill him afresh each day with your Spirit, flow into him with your wisdom.”

          • pax2u

            Gary Badkey • 15 hours ago
            I would make the punishment what God said to make it: capital punishment for homosex.

            *****************************
            are you going to up vote Gary’s “christian” statement?

          • James Grimes

            Oh, BTW, The Incoherent One has nothing better to do, so he’s posting a lot of nonsense today. He has no clue about life.

          • Badkey

            Hey Darlin’! Ready to explain why government recognition of my marriage bothers yo so bad? How it’s affected your life or your marriage?

          • pax2u

            these haters seem to think that they are God, anyone who disagrees with them is a Christ hater

            Jesus Christ spoke of Love and Mercy, Jesus was the new Covenant of the New Testament

            They are willing to support Gary, and Gary’s hatred as long as Gary hates who they hate

            I wonder if Gary also wants the Government to execute those Baptists of North Carolina who eat pork bbq, and do not keep the Saturday Sabbath of the Old Testament

          • Gary

            What is the difference between God’s rules about sexual conduct from the Old Testament to the New Testament??

          • pax2u

            should North Carolina Baptists who eat pork BBQ and do not observe the Old Testament Saturday Sabbath be executed along with homosexuals, some Catholics and me?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “By sin in them, some people are inclined towards sexual lusts for people of the same gender and rather than get the help they need to reject those evil lusts, they, like all sinners, choose to give in to these lusts, thus homosexuality is a choice. ”

            So sexuality is definitely a choice because of your religious beliefs about sin. Based on that, then, heterosexuals could become homosexuals if they just gave in to their lustful desires. Is that what keeps you in check? Not giving in to your lustful desires?

            Your logic is impeccab……………………………..ly bad.

          • Fundisi

            Sexual conduct is always a choice, sexual desire is based on our sexual nature, which for humans is decidedly heterosexual. Homosexual desire is therefore an aberration, a deviation from the normal course, a perversion of nature, it is the result of the sin nature in every human being and is manifested in an emotional illness. Science always admitted this truth (illness) and it was not until after the Sixties, when liberal, politically correct dogma forced the pseudo-science of psychiatry to submit and change their long standing, previous and then correct diagnosis. This is because psychiatry was never a science at all and these quacks did not want to risk their income and careers, and liberal forces were set to destroy them unless they submitted.

            As heterosexuals do, more and more often in modern times, give into their deviant sexual lusts and some then claim to be homosexual, yes that is the case. Just because you give into your destructive, lustful sexual desires outside the marriage bed, do not project your perverse leanings on me.

            These people, virtually all of them, could live healthy, normal lives according to their heterosexual natures, if liberal forces did not deny them the mental health and spiritual care they needed. But those forces on the left, needing to destroy faith that their socialist utopia may become a reality, would rather see their lives destroyed and them in hell than see them healed. I fear you are among those Leftist forces.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Homosexual desire is therefore an aberration, a deviation from the normal course”

            No question about it.

            “a perversion of nature”

            Since homosexuality has existed throughout recorded history, it would make no sense to say that it is a “perversion of nature”. Rather, it is clear that a certain percentage of the population being homosexual is quite natural.

            “it is the result of the sin nature in every human being and is manifested in an emotional illness.”

            So your entire basis for the fact that homosexuality is a choice is based upon your belief in the bible. Got it.

            “Science always admitted this truth” “This is because psychiatry was never a science at all ”

            If psychiatry was never a science and psychiatry was the discipline that labeled homosexuality an illness, then science never admitted that homosexuality was an illness, which renders your first statement untrue.

            “until after the Sixties, when liberal, politically correct dogma forced the pseudo-science of psychiatry to submit and change”

            What is your basis for that statement? Further, given your claim that psychiatry was never a science, what does it matter?

            “do not project your perverse leanings on me.”

            You do that all on your own.

            “if liberal forces did not deny them the mental health and spiritual care they needed.”

            No one is denied mental health and spiritual care. That is a lie.

            “needing to destroy faith that their socialist utopia may become a reality”

            Simply a lie.

            How do you square your supposed Christian faith with lying?

        • Extinction of Mankind by Manki

          Based on science, sexual orientation can be “custom made” by scientists. Same is true of Clones. So the answer is “it is possible” and if scientists want to challenge the Ethics of doing those things, then the question should be, is it morally and ethically right to manipulate the Genome for the purpose of saying as a scientist, its not about morals and ethics, its a matter of can it be done.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Based on science, sexual orientation can be “custom made” by scientists. ”

            What science would that be?

          • pax2u

            those who support crazy gary’s flat earth world

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            That would be Gary’s flat 6,000-year-old earth world

          • Extinction of Mankind by Man

            Obviously you haven’t read the news lately. Scientist’s have shown that by penetrating a woman’s egg and removing all its cellular DNA, they can implant a sperm based on it’s DNA makeup which would provide a male baby. Designer babies. Another is happening right now using three people, one as a host which is said to eliminate characteristics of disease within the DNA of the male and female, then being hosted by the third person.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Obviously you haven’t read the news lately.”

            Actually, I have. But I have not read anything about science being able to create a specific sexual orientation in a child, which is what you said is possible and for which you have provided no proof. Do you have any?

          • Extinction of Mankind by Man

            I thought I explained. However lets make it easy. Think Cloning. You remember sheep?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            I am aware of cloning. I am not aware that, in the process of cloning, those who are doing the cloning are able to create a specific sexual orientation. Nor am I aware that science is capable of cloning children.

            I’ll ask again – what proof do you have of either of these?

      • Badkey

        So is following a mythology.

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        Conduct is always a choice. Conduct wasn’t the question. The question was whether sexual orientation is a choice. Can you not respond honestly to a simple question?

        • Fundisi

          I did, below, I cannot be responsible for your inability to read.

          • Jeff Varney

            I know, Fundisi…many trolls just don’t get it and don’t want to bother reading anything.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            That you did. My mistake. You basically said that you are certain that homosexuality is a choice because of your religious beliefs.

        • Gary

          Orientation does not matter. Only thing that matters is behavior.

          • Badkey

            So, gay married folks who never have relations are OK.

            Got it.

          • Gary

            No.

          • Badkey

            I see… you just want gay folks dead. Got it.

          • Gary

            As long as they don’t behave as homosexuals, I don’t want them dead. They have to do something illegal for capital punishment to come into play. But homosexual behavior is legal . Right now.

          • Badkey

            Then they CAN get married, as long as they don’t “behave as homosexuals”. Got it.

            PS: being gay, and acting on it, is not against the law.

            I like you Gary. You’re a powerful ally.

          • Gary

            I would not allow ssm. That would not be a legal option.
            I just said homosexual behavior is not now illegal. But it will be.

          • Badkey

            It ain’t up to you, sweetie.

            Nor is it up to the imaginary daddy you claim is coming home for dinner in “~20 years”.

          • Gary

            I thought we were talking about what I would do.
            Jesus came the first time after he was predicted to come. And, Jesus said he would come back.

          • Badkey

            Oh, I know what you would do. Got me a screen shot of it & everything!

            Jesus didn’t say that… some guy who wrote a book did.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            When do you think that homosexual behavior will become illegal in the US and what would cause that to happen?

          • Gary

            It will become illegal when Jesus Christ returns and institutes his theocracy. I don’t know exactly when that will be, but it is getting closer all the time.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            I thought Jesus was just going to come, gather up all the “real” Christians, head out, and leave everyone else behind. No?

            He’s planning on sticking around, taking over the US government, and then changing all the laws? Will he need to work with Congress on that, or will he just dissolve Congress?

          • Gary

            That happens before he returns to set up the theocracy.

          • pax2u

            Gary did you hear that your rapture bus has already passed your bus stop and did not pick you up

          • Gary

            That is not true.

          • pax2u

            it honked outside your house, but you were too busy hating the “others”

          • pax2u

            so who will Jesus Christ return for Gary?

            your allies, trumpy, jimmy grimmy, and Neiman, now known as Fundi, have said that all mainline protestant denominations are apostate, you and they declare that Catholics are not Christians, you believe that some Baptists such as Billy Graham teach another Gospel?

            who is left for Jesus to return to? just you four, and it seems that the four of you reject the message of Jesus Christ the message of Love and Mercy

          • Gary

            Jesus will take the real Christians. You, and the pope will be left behind.

          • pax2u

            so your rapture bus only has seats for the four of you?

          • Gary

            There are more four.

          • pax2u

            more four? who is that the Westboro Baptist Phelps family?

          • pax2u

            fundisi, and jimmy grimmy will support crazy gary but will they be responsible when he reacts violently?

          • pax2u

            be careful with crazy gary, he is likely to have a violent and dangerous reaction when confronted

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Then a heterosexual who doesn’t engage in sexual relations isn’t really a heterosexual, correct?

          • Gary

            The orientation thing is an attempt to justify homosexuality by saying they can’t help what they do.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Homosexuality needs no justification, therefore your statement is false.

            I’ll ask again: Then a heterosexual who doesn’t engage in sexual relations isn’t really a heterosexual, correct?

          • Gary

            Homosexuality is immoral. It is perversion. It cannot be justified.
            Why does your question matter?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Homosexuality is immoral. It is perversion.”

            You are certainly entitled to your views, but they are not universal.

            “Why does your question matter?”

            It is a question based upon the premise you put forth. If your premise is true, then it must apply in all situations. If you are unable to defend your premise in other related situations, then your premise is false.

          • pax2u

            I really wonder if Gary is a Muslim, the Muslims want to execute homosexuals, and look forward to the end of the world, with the 12the Imam

          • Gary

            I used to wonder if you could be sane and say the things you do. But you have convinced me of your insanity.

          • pax2u

            I will continue to pray for your, please do not harm anyone

          • pax2u

            I think that Gary is very insecure, insecure in his theology, and possibly insecure in his sexuality,

            maybe that is why he wants the Government to execute homosexuals, maybe he is afraid he will catch a case of the gay

          • Gary

            The more you talk, the more like the sodomites you sound.

          • pax2u

            Gary I realize that you have the support of others who hate as you hate, I pray that you will not harm another

          • Gary

            I also have the support of God, since I believe what God said. My beliefs about sexuality and marriage are the same found in the Bible. Both Old and New Testaments.

          • pax2u

            Gary should the Government execute the North Carolina Baptists who do not observe the Old Testament Saturday Sabbath and who eat Pork BBQ?

            or do you only want the Government to execute Homosexuals, some Catholics and me?

          • pax2u

            as you want homosexuals, some Catholics and me to be executed, you have friends, who have no denominational doctrine and a theology of hate

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Not to mention that if the government executes all homosexuals then Gary won’t have to deal with going to gay pride parades to “protest” and it would rid the country of any temptation he might be facing.

          • pax2u

            if there is a shooting in North Carolina, I have an idea who it might be, his allies will push Gary to be as crazy as possible, and when, and I do mean when Gary snaps they will blame everyone but themselves

          • Gary

            There was a shooting yesterday. An atheist shot 3 muslims.

          • pax2u

            have they arrested you yet?

            since you do not believe in the Jesus Christ of Love and Mercy

          • Gary

            I didn’t shoot anyone. That might be why they didn’t arrest me.

          • pax2u

            please gary, do not harm anyone

          • pax2u

            do you condemn the shooting or support it?

          • James Grimes

            Unfortunately, there was. Some of his rants sounded like those posted by The Useless here. That is disturbing.

    • Gary

      Fundisi has the right answer below. We are not robots, we choose our behavior. “Orientation” is irrelevant.

  • BravesFan

    Hey guys! Obama lied! I know you’re shocked, as he has never ever lied to us before, but it’s true… /s

  • https://www.facebook.com/bernard.thomas.790/about Bernard Thomas

    That whole admin lies like rugs.

  • Mike Fitch

    You can tell when a politician is lying. You just watch them close and if their lips are moving they are lying. Most of them will say or do whatever it takes to get elected.

  • thoughtsfromflorida

    What? Obama moderated his public position in order to not offend voters and assist in his reelection? Oh my gosh. Unheard of! How could he do that when no other politician does that? Thank goodness no Republican, Tea Party, or Conservative candidate ever does that. At least we can trust them.

    Goodness knows, if African American Christians had known that Obama actually supported allowing two citizens of the same gender to enter into civil marriage, they would have voted for McCain/Palin rather than the first black person to run for president.

  • dark477

    So what? all politicians lie it comes with the job.

  • Harry Oh!

    Obama getting elected twice, is definitive proof that America is officially lost forever.

  • Robert Miller

    70% of america oppose gay marriage and this is proven from the NC election this country was raped we said no.

  • What37

    Oh, he lied? Since when did that become news?

  • Truthhurts24

    When did this anti christ ever tell the truth he is allergic to truth.

  • Rich Rochester

    The press certainly was not going to point that out.