Apostate Presbyterian Church USA Voting on Redefining Marriage

PC Banner Credit Drama QueenLOUISVILLE, Kentucky — Regional presbyteries of the Presbyterian Church (USA) are voting on whether to ratify a vote taken by the General Assembly and regional delegates last year to change the definition of marriage in its law book and to allow ministers to perform same-sex “marriages” in states where the practice is legal.

As previously reported, last June, the General Assembly of PCUSA, headquarted in Louisville, Kentucky, voted 76-24 to allow licensed ministered to officiate such ceremonies. Delegates within the denomination also approved a proposal to change language in the PCUSA Book of Order to redefine marriage from being a union between “a man and woman” to rather only “two persons.”

But the change was not to become official until its 172 regional presbyteries across the country voted on the matter, 40 percent of which have done so thus far. According to reports, of those that have voted thus far, 60 have been in favor, with 23 against.

Although voting will continue into the spring, and nearly half of the regional presbyteries have yet to cast their vote, some believe that PCUSA will likely approve the measures. A majority vote is needed for ratification. The latest regional votes—all in favor—include Charlotte, N.C. 146-107, Chicago, Ill. 179-60, North Alabama 28-24 and Santa Fe, N.M. 99-21.

“I was certain this day would come sooner or later,” Janet Edwards, an ordained minister who serves on the board of the homosexual advocacy group More Light Presbyterians, told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. “I think the reason it has come sooner is because of the fantastic love of lesbian and gay couples. We see in these couples such a commitment to each other, which we all recognize as marriage.”

But others have expressed disappointment in the direction that PCUSA is headed.

“This is a clear departure from the plain meaning of the Scriptures on the subject,” the Presbyterian Lay Committee, which opposes homosexual behavior, said in a statement. “This is also a clear indication that the denomination has made up her mind to go her own way—in direct contradiction to the way set forth by God.”

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Last June, the Committee urged congregations to financially boycott PCUSA over its rebellion against God.

“You should refuse to fund the General Assembly, your synod, your presbytery and even your local church if those bodies have not explicitly and publicly repudiated these unbiblical actions,” it said. “God will not be mocked, and those who substitute their own felt desires for God’s unchangeable truth will not be found guiltless before a holy God.”

One anonymous individual whose op-ed was published in AL.com also called upon PCUSA to place God’s word above the feelings of men.

“What do men of God find hard to understand in Romans 1?” they wrote. “Keep in mind the truth of God’s word. If you have a Scripture verse, you have an answer; everything else is an opinion.”

“Paul tells us, ‘Purify yourself from everything that contaminates the body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God,'” the open letter stated. “Today I urge you to be a Paul. You do not face chains, imprisonment or death for speaking God’s word, but you will be called before God on Judgment Day.”

Photo: Drama Queen/Wikipedia


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  • Gary

    I expect the Presbyterians will accept ssm officially. But I wonder what possible reason they could have for placing any limits on marriage? If they cannot limit marriage to one man and one woman, how can they justify any limitations? Also, if they vote to change marriage, they should expect that any Christians that are still in their denomination will leave, because they will.

    • Badkey

      Oh, look! Gary’s happy!!! His favorite obsession has another story!

      Go Gary!!!

    • Gloria Lynn Truscott

      And they will and to me well just another sign of the times of things to become before the return of God who will cast his Judgement on all those who have defied his word and chose to live against it.

  • Steve

    10 “And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 “His winnowing fan [is] in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
    Mat 3:10-12

    • Hampton Ford

      Excellent scripture reference. You would like John Bunyan’s “The Barren Fig Tree” which you can read for free online.

      You cannot get grapes from thorns or figs from thistles. We should daily test ourselves to see if we are in the faith and if our fruit is “good.” If it is not, the Man will have the Gardener cut down the tree from the vineyard and throw it into the fire.

  • Frank

    Wolves in sheep’s clothing.

  • JKomar

    What nonsense! The PCUSA is actually following the teachings of Christ and rejecting man-made superstitions.

    • Mr. Avatar

      If your a Christian, then you believe in the trinity where God, Jesus and the spirit are one! So the commandments given to Moses by God that Jesus references to as the father – Jesus is also the father and anything God the father has said – Jesus also said. There is no mention of marriage out side of a man and woman anywhere in the bible.

      • Psygn

        Are you ignoring all the polygamy stuff in the Bible?

        • Oboehner

          Don’t keep us hanging, post the references.

          • BarkingDawg

            Who was Cain’s wife?

          • John

            I guess it had to be his sister, or his mother. Nobody else on earth at the time.

          • George Wheeler

            The earth had been populated BEFORE the Garden of Eden was created. Read Genesis.

          • George Wheeler

            Basically, Adam was the “8th day man”. God created Adam AFTER HE rested on the 7th day.

          • George Wheeler

            Cain found his wife in the land of Nod after he was marked and banished

          • BarkingDawg

            His sister, you mean.

          • George Wheeler

            Try to keep upBDawg, Cain went to the land of Nod, which is now part of Russia, and there he found his wife. It is in the Old Testament, Book of Genesis.

          • BarkingDawg

            Nod is now part of Russia?

            LOL

          • George Wheeler

            This is what the folks that know that sort of stuff. Cain went north of the garden into the land of Nod and there he found his wife. Try reading it instead of laughing about it.

          • Oboehner

            Her name is not mentioned, nor is it mentioned as to where she came from – your point?

          • Psygn

            Well if you are really interested here is a quick reference.
            http://www.bibleresearch.org/articles/alw2.htm

          • Oboehner

            Nice random website, grab the first thing that popped up in a search?

          • Psygn

            Your welcome, hopefully someday everyone will learn how to google.

          • Oboehner

            They can all learn to pick their noses too.

          • Psygn

            That would be a first step in learning how to breath with their mouth closed, lol.

          • Oboehner

            I don’t think so if their nasal passages are plugged with fingers – commons sense.

          • Psygn

            Hmm ….. Back to the drawing board.

        • Gloria Lynn Truscott

          They were not saying it did not exist it did they are saying there is no mention of Marriage outside of a Man and a Woman that Marriage is between a Man and Woman not a Man and a Man nor a Woman and a Woman but only as God says is right Marriage is between a Man and a Woman ..

        • TheBBP

          If you want to bring up the Bible as part of your argument, at least do yourself some credit in understanding it. You and the folks like you absolutely love to lean on the Old Covenant in any of your arguments and like to pretend that you are teaching us something.

          The Old Covenant was fulfilled by Jesus’ sacrifice on the Cross. We do not have to make sacrifices and all of that other stuff to pay the debt of our sins. Jesus covered that with His precious blood.

          • Psygn

            My issue was with his fallaciously bold claim. “There is no mention of marriage out side of a man and woman anywhere in the bible.”

          • John

            What does “TheBBP” stand for? You commented my post on the Alabama story but I was unable to reply (I don’t know why). Are you the God police? Your responses show intelligience but you lack humility. You told me my theology is dangerous and irresponsible. The Bible is for all of us to read and obtain an understanding. I have such passion because I know with absolute certainty that homosexuality is not a sin. Unless you are able to walk in the shoes of a gay person your opion is limited. I believe the Bible is often used as a weapon against the innocent.

          • TheBBP

            You are not following the Holy Bible if you believe that homosexuality is not a sin. There are many references, I will just leave one…

            http://biblia.com/bible/esv/1%20Corinthians%206.9-10

            There is more for you to consider here: http://www.gotquestions.org/homosexuality-Bible.html

            I sincerely hope that you find the truth and cease being misled.

          • John

            How we treat one another was so important to Jesus. He made it his second greatest commandment and equal in importance to his first. I am sure you know someone who is gay. Did you speak with that person? If you did you would find out that they did not choose to be homosexual anymore than you and I chose to be heterosexual. We were made the way God wanted us to be made. It is easy to read and recite scriptures to make ourselves feel proud and superior to others. But it takes humility and compassion to understand the pain of others. The sheep were separated from the goats for a very good reason. The Pharisees would certainly have been the goats. I believe we have modern day Pharisees. Do you believe you are with the sheep or the goats?

          • TheBBP

            A lack of agreement does not mean a lack of caring or a lack of love. The Bible is implicit in the fact that homosexuality is a sin. A caring heart in no way means an acceptance of sin just as not being tolerant of sin does not mean that I do not love you.

            Acting like it is treating someone bad because you do not condone their sinful behavior is a copout.

          • John

            Did you ever take the time to speak with a gay person? Not making that effort but instead standing in judgement is the real copout.

          • TheBBP

            Let’s pretend that I don’t already know several gay people that I am in semi-regular to regular contact with… How, in any way, would that change what homosexuality is to the Bible?

            I know people who have stolen things that do not belong to them. I know a person who may have cheated on their spouse. Just because I know and care for these people does not make what they do or have done to be right.

          • John

            You might know someone who is gay but did you speak with them to understand why they are gay? If you speak with someone who stole things that did not belong to them, you would find out that they chose to be a thief. You would find out from speaking to a gay person that they did not choose to be gay anymore than you and I chose to be straight. Who we are physically attracted to is not a human choice. If it is not a choice, it is not a sin and to hurt others based on what Moses and Paul wrote in the Bible is wrong. Jesus was not quoted as saying anything about homosexuality.

          • TheBBP

            I do not need to understand why a person becomes gay to believe what the Bible says about it.
            ————————————————————
            Question: “If homosexuality is a sin, why didn’t Jesus ever mention it?”

            Answer:Many who support same-sex marriage and gay rights argue that, since Jesus never mentionedhomosexuality, He did not consider it to be sinful. After all, the argument goes, if homosexuality is bad, why did Jesus treat it as a non-issue?

            It is technically true that Jesus did not specifically address homosexuality in the Gospel accounts; however, He did speak clearly about sexuality in general. Concerning marriage, Jesus stated, “At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh[.]’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” (Matthew 19:4–6). Here Jesus clearly referred to Adam and Eve and affirmed God’s intended design for marriage and sexuality.

            For those who follow Jesus, sexual practices are limited. Rather than take a permissive view of sexual immorality anddivorce, Jesus affirmed that people are either to be single and celibate or married and faithful to one spouse of the opposite gender. Jesus considered any other expression of sexuality sinful. This would include same-sex activity.

            Also, are we to believe that any and every action is good unless Jesus specifically forbade it? The goal of the Gospels was not to give us a comprehensive list of sinful activities, and there are many obvious sins that are not found in the “red letter” section of the Bible. Kidnapping, for example. Jesus never specifically said that kidnapping was a sin, yet we know that stealing children is wrong. The point is that Jesus did notneedto itemize sin, especially when the further revelation contained in the Epistles removes all doubt as to homosexuality’s sinfulness.

            Scripture is clear that believers are to have nothing to do with sexual immorality: “Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body” (1 Corinthians 6:18). Sexual immorality, whether same-sex activity or otherwise, is a sin against a person’s own body.

            It is important to note that sexual immorality, including same-sex activity, is listed alongside other sins in Scripture, indicating that God does not rank one sin as worse than another. While the consequences of some sins are greater than others, Scripture often simply lists sins side by side. For example, Jesus said, “Out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander” (Matthew 15:19–20; see alsoRomans 1:24–31).

            The Bible teaches that followers of Jesus are to practice sexual purity, and that includes abstaining from same-sex activity. In addition, unbelievers who practice homosexuality stand in need of salvation just like any other unbeliever. Christians are called to pray for those who do not know Christ, to serve others in love, and to share the message of Jesus with all people, including those involved in homosexuality.

            Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-homosexuality.html#ixzz3Tch6ACAm

          • John

            No you do not need to understand why a person is gay to believe what the Bible says about it. That is true. But if you did it would be difficult to put this “so called” sin in a category with adultery, murder, theifs, etc. You would understand that they did not choose to be homosexual anymore than you and I chose to be heterosexual. And if that gay person was a very special part of your life, you would need to find the truth that the Bible is not perfect. As humans, we tend not to see the other side of an issue unless it affects us personally. Many people were like you, including myself, until they dealt with it on a personal level. My journey of reading the Bible as thoroughly as I have and understanding a human truth has allowed me to see what Christians are doing is such a human injustice. I know this change wll be difficult without it being personal for many, but in time it will come. Why do you think the “sin” of homosexuality is the only Biblical sin that is changing? The answer is that it does not belong with the others. Those others are all human choices.

          • TheBBP

            You are of some absurd notion that you can change what sin is simply because of how you feel about the sinner. Where in the Bible does it teach that? Being gay IS a sin, just like the other things that you listed. THAT is why I called your theology dangerous and irresponsible.

            You are absolutely delusional and your refusal to come to terms with sin will be something that you will have to be accountable for before God someday.

            God does not change. He is perfect and infallible. You are making assertions that He simply did not know what He was talking about when He had the Bible written.

          • John

            Jesus is perfect, the Bible is not. I worship Jesus, I do not need to worship the Bible (Bible Idolatry). If the Bible fell out of the sky then I would agree with you that God wrote the Bible. Unfortunately we had mostly men write it and put together what books they thought should be included. I look forward to the day I will stand in front of Jesus. I expect to be with the sheep, do you?

    • Frank

      You don’t know Jesus or what His teachings are.

  • Mr. Avatar

    If they have to vote on it, their not Christians – just another conform to the times to get along church!

    • Gloria Lynn Truscott

      Yes I agree and any true Christian knows this is wrong.

    • Psygn

      Is that a problem for you?.

  • Rev. Carolyn D. Thomas

    Any Bible believing Christian will never condone this action that is so blatantly
    against the Word of God. People need to know that their denomination does not define who they are in Christ. There are no denominations in heaven just as in the origional churches of old.

    • John

      So as a fundamentalist, do you believe the “word of God” that clearly states that women are second class human beings to men. With the exception of the Gospels, the scriptures that were written by MEN clearly have that theme.

      • Maria Wilson

        There is no where in the Bible saying that women are second class to man .Read the Bible don’t ask weird questions .

        • John

          I will get back to you with MANY scripture examples when I get the chance. I have to pick up my son right now.

        • Paul Hiett

          Well, except for that part of Corinthians that says women should remain silent in church.

          • The Last Trump

            That’s it? That’s all you’ve got?
            Seriously dude, you need to find a new hobby.
            Stalking this Christian website 24/7 LOOKING for things to argue about is pretty childish. You just look immature and foolish.

          • Paul Hiett

            At least I actually discuss the article…rather than some who only post to insult someone who discusses the article.

          • John

            I will start with Genesis: God made a man first. Women will bear children with intense pain and your husband (man) will be your master. Covenant only between men and God through circumcision (women excluded). Exodus: 10th commandment says do not covet your neighbor’s wife …or anything else your neighbor OWNS, slave man is free after 7th year, but wife still belongs to master, a man sells his daughter as a slave. Leviticus: a woman is unclean for 7 days for son and 14 days for a daughter. men had multiple wives and concubines, value of man is 50 pieces of silver and 30 for a woman. Numbers: horrible ritual for dealing with a jealous husband (nothing for a jealous wife). Deuteronomy: woman has to prove virginity or men will stone her to death, a woman must marry her rapist. 1 Corinthians: a woman dishonors her husband if she prays without covering her head, man is made in God’s glory, but woman is the glory of man, women should be silent during church meetings, man was not made for woman’s benefit, but woman was made for man, woman should be submissive. Ephesians: wives must submit to your husbands in everything. 1 Timothy: woman should listen and learn quietly and submissively, do not let women teach men or have authority over them, it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, the younger women are likely to become lazy and spend their time gossiping from house to house, getting into other people’s business and saying things they shouldn’t. These are sadly some of the many negative scriptures that men wrote claiming to be the inspired word of God that clearly place women as second class human beings.

          • dark477

            and the whole slavery thing

          • Eduardo Esteban Estes

            Slavery in that time was for the most part indentured servitude.
            Pointing to another thing such as divorce does not grant some excuse to be homosexual.
            That’s like a child pointing out his friends bad behavior to excuse his own.

          • Eduardo Esteban Estes

            In Matthew 19 Christ said what marriage is.
            4 “Haven’t you read,” Jesus replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

            This denomination has lost its way and the members would do good to abandon it.

          • dark477

            I don’t give a damn what your religion considers bad

          • Eduardo Esteban Estes

            Evidently you do since you are on here!

          • dark477

            I’m here because you morons need to be educated about how this godless world really works

          • Eduardo Esteban Estes

            You are here making a rectal orifice of yourself. This is a discussion about a church and it’s decisions. You have nothing to add one way or the other.
            Since you are a n atheist it should make no difference to you as far as this discussion goes.

          • The Last Trump

            Yeah, you’re educating us alright. You’re a great reminder of the lost lives of self importance and smugness we used to lead.
            Thank you for reinforcing our decisions for a life committed to Christ with your every post.

          • dark477

            Glass houses bub. I wouldn’t go around calling others arrogant.

          • Logic&Emotion

            In your case Trump has a valid point. It doesn’t have to be this way with you however. You can simply stop personal attacks, stop grouping people, and make your point. Is that possible for you? Otherwise you serve only yourself, and you can’t possibly teach anyone anything.

          • Logic&Emotion

            Hardly, your here because your trolling sites. We certainly can say the same about your opinions. They are hardly relevant to this article, or other articles you claim to have any knowledge of. Your personal attacks will fall on deaf ears. If you claim to be Atheist, your a bad representation of such. Ignorant comments about something you know little about will in the long run only serve to reduce any credibility you might pretend to have.

        • John

          I finally got some time to respond to you. I will start with Genesis: God made a man first. Women will bear children with intense pain and your husband (man) will be your master. Covenant only between men and God through circumcision (women excluded). Exodus: 10th commandment says do not covet your neighbor’s wife …or anything else your neighbor OWNS, slave man is free after 7th year, but wife still belongs to master, a man sells his daughter as a slave. Leviticus: a woman is unclean for 7 days for son and 14 days for a daughter. men had multiple wives and concubines, value of man is 50 pieces of silver and 30 for a woman. Numbers: horrible ritual for dealing with a jealous husband (nothing for a jealous wife). Deuteronomy: woman has to prove virginity or men will stone her to death, a woman must marry her rapist. 1 Corinthians: a woman dishonors her husband if she prays without covering her head, man is made in God’s glory, but woman is the glory of man, women should be silent during church meetings, man was not made for woman’s benefit, but woman was made for man, woman should be submissive. Ephesians: wives must submit to your husbands in everything. 1 Timothy: woman should listen and learn quietly and submissively, do not let women teach men or have authority over them, it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, the younger women are likely to become lazy and spend their time gossiping from house to house, getting into other people’s business and saying things they shouldn’t. These are sadly some of the many negative scriptures that men wrote claiming to be the inspired word of God that clearly place women as second class human beings.

          • The Last Trump

            “I finally got some time to respond to you.”
            Translation: “I had to go do an online search for stuff in the Bible I don’t even read or understand but that I think would back up my argument”.
            I noticed you were careful to leave out the fact that Jacob worked for 14 YEARS to win the hand of Rachel. Yeah that sounds like something a man does for a second class citizen. Nobody needs to tell the ladies who holds the REAL power now do they? They’re all just too darn cute! 🙂

          • John

            You believe working 14 years for Rachel shows respect for women? Jacob married her sister Leah. Then later he slept with Leah, Rachel, Bilhah and Zilpah numerous times. Does this show respect for women?

          • The Last Trump

            And WHY did he sleep with those women?
            WHO’S wishes was he following?
            No need to respond. We both know the answer now, don’t we?
            Funny how Christian women aren’t complaining about Christianity’s treatment of women.
            Just the atheists are. Go figure.

          • John

            Then what you are telling me is that God’s wish is to have men marry more than one woman. Not just one man and one woman. No wonder the Mormons were polygamist.

          • The Last Trump

            I guess you didn’t read the story, huh? Not surprising.
            Here’s a hint: It wasn’t God who asked him to sleep with the help!
            (Imagine! Following the wishes of second class citizens! The nerve of him.)

          • John

            Let us take a closer look at these scriptures. Rachel was Jaob’s first cousin. Rachel’s sister Leah sleeps with Jacob on the wedding night. Jacob must not have kissed her during the wedding night or he would have realized that it was not Rachel. The four women end up producing 12 sons and only 1 daughter (against the odd?). Women are rarely named in the Bible but this time the daughter is name; Dinah. Dinah is named because she is later raped by Schechem. These writings make women look like second class human beings. Would you agree?

          • torqueflite

            I am a gay woman who has left mainline Protestantism. I am agnostic largely because all organized religion is both misogynistic and homophobic. It serves only those already in power, notably neither women nor gay people.

        • Rev. Carolyn D. Thomas

          Thank you Maria for your comment. John needs to attend more Bible studies! Bless you

          • Gary

            I appreciate your support of heterosexual marriage. But God does not call women to be preachers.

          • torqueflite

            Bull.

      • Maria Wilson

        Ephesians 5:25 – Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

        1 Peter 3:7
        – Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge,
        giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being
        heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

        Ephesians 5:25-33 – Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; (Read More…)

        Ephesians 5:33
        – Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even
        as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband.

        Ephesians 5:31 – For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

        Ephesians 5:1-33 – Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; (Read More…)

        Ephesians 5:22-24 – Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. (Read More…)

        1 Timothy 3:1-16 – This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. (Read More…)

        Ephesians 5:22 – Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

        Ephesians 4:32 – And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Way to go, Maria! You silenced the demons with Scripture! You are clearly no “second-class citizen.” Well-done, keep up the good work!

      • Rev. Carolyn D. Thomas

        I don’t know what Bible you are reading John, but my Bible tells me God did not and does not make 2nd class anything. If there is a 2nd class human then man has made that declaration, not God. In Proverbs 3:15 it is said; She is more precious than jewels;and nothing you desire compares to her. 16 Long life is in her right hand, in her left are riches and honor. Does that sound 2nd class? In Gen. 2:22-24 The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which had been taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said; “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she is to be called Woman because she was taken out of Man” For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become ONE flesh.
        Throughout the scriptures it says women are to be honored but of course we both know that people don’t always obey what God has called us to do. Be blessed..

        • John

          I will start with Genesis: God made a man first. Women will bear children with intense pain and your husband (man) will be your master. Covenant only between men and God through circumcision (women excluded). Exodus: 10th commandment says do not covet your neighbor’s wife …or anything else your neighbor OWNS, slave man is free after 7th year, but wife still belongs to master, a man sells his daughter as a slave. Leviticus: a woman is unclean for 7 days for son and 14 days for a daughter. men had multiple wives and concubines, value of man is 50 pieces of silver and 30 for a woman. Numbers: horrible ritual for dealing with a jealous husband (nothing for a jealous wife). Deuteronomy: woman has to prove virginity or men will stone her to death, a woman must marry her rapist. 1 Corinthians: a woman dishonors her husband if she prays without covering her head, man is made in God’s glory, but woman is the glory of man, women should be silent during church meetings, man was not made for woman’s benefit, but woman was made for man, woman should be submissive. Ephesians: wives must submit to your husbands in everything. 1 Timothy: woman should listen and learn quietly and submissively, do not let women teach men or have authority over them, it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, the younger women are likely to become lazy and spend their time gossiping from house to house, getting into other people’s business and saying things they shouldn’t. These are sadly some of the many negative scriptures that men wrote claiming to be the inspired word of God that clearly place women as second class human beings.

          • Rev. Carolyn D. Thomas

            Be blessed John, I refuse to argue with you. I know my Lord, He loves me, He died for me and I spend my life serving Him and He didn’t make me to be 2nd class anything.I love my husband, he is my spiritual authority, I respect him, he dearly loves me and treats me as his equal, but he in not my master nor does he want to be.You have formed your own opinions. I will pray for you.

          • John

            I love Jesus and I do not think woman are second class human beings. I am only making people aware of these scriptures because Christians such as yourself are using what is written about homosexuals to be God’s word. If you say what is written about homosexuals is God’s word then it is fair to say God’s word also says women are second class human beings. Neither is true. I am commenting on this site because I am tired of the innocent gay community being treated as sinners. A sin is only a sin if one has a choice in the manner. I did not choose to be heterosexual anymore than a gay person chooses to be homosexual. I hope God will speak to your heart and you can have a changed attitude towards gay human beings. God Bless.

          • Gary

            If you loved Jesus, you would believe the Bible and try to do as it says. God does not allow any s-x outside of marriage to be moral. And God says marriage is the union of a man and a woman only. God leaves no room for a moral expression of homosexuality.

          • John

            Why do I need Bible idolatry to love Jesus. What I showed you with scripture showing women are second class human beings, I could also do with slavery. We should all know that both of them are wrong. What you are referring to is Jesus responding to a question about divorce concerning a man and a woman. His response certainly would be about the marriage of a man and a woman. Jesus makes NO mention of homosexuals in the Gospel. Unless you believe slavery and woman as second class human beings is right, please try to open your mind and heart to the possibilty that you are wrong on the issue of homosexuality. Let us live the life of loving our neighbors as Jesus wants us to.

          • Gary

            Believing the Bible does not mean you make an idol of it. The Bible does not say women are second class human beings. You have drawn that conclusion on your own.
            Marriage in the Bible is always heterosexual. Every time what we call homos-xuality is mentioned in the Bible, it is condemned. It is you who is not open to what the Bible says.

          • Paul Hiett

            What does 1 Corinthians say about women in the church?

          • Gary

            You tell me.

          • lynn

            That was as much for the man as it was for the woman. The heaven Father/Christ/man/woman. That doesn’t change the fact that Jesus Christ is equal to the Father and the woman is equal to the man. It only illustrates the order of responsibility. This may be too deep for you to understand.

          • John

            Do you really believe
            scriptures that say a mother is unclean for 7 days if she gives birth to a son
            but 14 days if she gives birth to a daughter, men can have as many wives and
            concubines as he pleases but if a woman’s parents can’t prove her virginity the
            men stone her to death, a woman has to cover her head during worship to honor
            her husband, that woman should not speak in church meetings but ask their
            husbands at home, woman should not teach men or that a man was not made for
            woman’s benefit but a woman was made for man does not place women as second
            class human beings to men? I do not think women are second class human beings but unfortunately that is the message that men wrote in the Bible.

          • lynn

            I said it might be too deep for you to understand. That also applies to me.I am not a theologian. There is a lot in the bible, and especially the old Testament that I don’t understand. But to answer your question, I don’t believe that the man is superior to the woman. They just have different roles in responsibility. I believe the man is responsible to support his family, and the woman is responsible to nurture the family. There are many other areas of responsibility that differ, but I don’t think I will get anywhere with you, so I will just leave it at that. Have a good day.

          • John

            Thank you Lynn for a respectful response. I believe the Bible is too deep for anyone to understand including theologians. The Bible was written by men so long ago and we do not know if what was written down was divine inspiration, own opinions, or written for a particular human reason. We really don’t know. What we do know however are truths. We know that woman are not second class human beings and one person owning another human being is wrong. I have family and friends who are homosexuals and I have taken the opportunity and time to really understand their lives. I have decided to make comments on this website because I believe with such passion that what most Christians are doing to the gay community is so wrong. Even though many Christians would like the Bible to be perfect, unfortunately it is not.

          • lynn

            Thanks. I don”t think we should be mean spirited to anybody. I also believe that God wouldn’t have us to hate folks. However I realize that within myself there resides two natures. One is a spiritual nature which is filled with love. The other is a worldly nature which sometimes has too much passion which includes anger, revenge, wrath, and lots of other not so good things. But it also has love. My bible tells me that I should allow the spiritual nature to rule over bad things in the worldly nature. That is good but sometimes, try as I may, it doesn’t work out that way for me. To me that is sin. Yes, I think of my self as a sinner, but a sinner that has been saved by God’s grace. I am not any better than any body else and that includes everybody. The difference is that I surrendered my heart to Jesus Christ, and I believe on Him as my Savior. I pray that I can help others and not be a hindrance to them. I learned a long time ago that I can’t help anybody if I try to beat them up all the time.
            Have a good day.

          • John

            When you are so deep into the scriptures that you are willing to hurt the innocent, then in my opinion you are idolizing the Bible. Do you really believe scriptures that say a mother is unclean for 7 days if she gives birth to a son but 14 days if she gives birth to a daughter, men can have as many wives and concubines as he pleases but if a woman’s parents can’t prove her virginity the men stone her to death, a woman has to cover her head during worship to honor her husband, that woman should not speak in church meetings but ask their husbands at home, woman should not teach men or that a man was not made for woman’s benefit but a woman was made for man does not place women as second class human beings to men? Really? Finally when you say that marriage in the Bible is always heterosexual, you are right. The problem is that these marriages are man + woman, man + wives + concubines, man + brother’s widow, rapist and his victim, male soldier and his female prisoner, or male + female slave. Please stop hurting the innocent.

          • Gary

            Christians are not hurting the innocent. Men and women have different functions in life. That does not mean God regards women as any less important.

          • Rev. Carolyn D. Thomas

            Here is what is clearly written in the Bible. From 1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornacators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Now, with that said one may think; Gosh, then no one will go to heaven, BUT, Jesus came and went to the cross for our sin so when we ask Jesus into our heart, repent (turn away) from our sin, we are forgiven. The key word here is REPENT. If any Homosexual really and truly repents then he or she is forgiven but they must give up that life style. My heart as a Christian is to love the homosexual but it is not to condone the behavior of a homosexual lifestyle. God bless

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Ahhh….so despite biblical teachings, you have chosen to believe differently about how God views you. Funny how that seems fine to you, but if people interpret the bible’s prohibitions on homosexuality as being related to activities in the temple, or interpret that when Jesus said that some eunuchs were born as eunuchs that he was referring to men who are gay, those interpretations are definitively wrong.

            i guess you are one of those ‘pick and choose” Christians. Otherwise known as hypocrites.

          • lynn

            The scriptures are not meant to be for your private interpretation so that you can twist them to suit your depraved nature. Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and then He will help you understand by the guidance of the Holy Ghost. Jesus saves.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “The scriptures are not meant to be for your private interpretation so that you can twist them to suit your depraved nature. ”

            You seem to have no issue with it. If we brought the writers of the Gospels forward in time and they heard you talk about how you are equal to your husband, and you don’t have to obey him, and you can speak your mind even if your husband disagrees, and you can have short hair if you want to and wear jewelry if you want to. Well, dear, they would be aghast, and would most likely think you are quite depraved.

            So why is it you are allowed to ignore and interpret scripture when it suits your “depraved” desires, but others aren’t?

          • lynn

            I’m an old man. Married the only girl I ever dated, and still with her after 47 years. She and I were both virgins. Neither of us has ever slept with anyone else. Yet I am not saying I am more holy than anyone else. This is not something I usually spout off about because I believe it is what God meant when Jesus said the man and woman became twain or as one when they come togather. I know that is much harder to do in this very liberal world today. Things have really changed in my lifetime. I never evrn heard about homosexuality until after I finished high school. But perhaps that is because there were only 21 in my graduation class.
            But you thought I was a female. LOL

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            First, let me say congratulations on your long marriage. That is remarkable. Quite a feat in this day and age. How wonderful that you have been to spend so many years with your first sweetheart. i’m very happy for you.

            I am also up there in years. And, yes, things have really changed in my lifetime as well. I also never really heard about homosexuality other than the taunting and derisive name-calling that occurred in high school.

            Based upon how I was raised, i fought my natural desires through much of my life, to the point where I was engaged to me married in my senior year of college – despite knowing that I would not be happy – but it was what a man was supposed to do. Fortunately – for both me and her – I did not move forward. Both of us deserved better.

            This whole issue of same-gender marriage has been a challenging one. There are strong views on both sides. While I certainly understand, and respect, that there are those who find such couples to be morally wrong, i also hold dear the protections our constitution provides to citizens, and believe they transcend personal religious beliefs and the desire of some to limit the actions of other citizens based upon those beliefs.

            It is easy to endorse freedom, liberty, and equality when everyone is pretty much on the same page. It becomes more challenging when we realize that endorsing those bedrocks may result in people being allowed to do things that we personally disagree with.

            For example – I find the rantings and ravings of the members of the Westboro Baptist Church to be vile and immoral. None-the-less, i accept that, if I am to have my freedom of speech, they must also have theirs – regardless of my personal views on the matter.

            The moment I attempt to restrict the rights of others based solely upon my personal views, is the moment I put my own freedom in jeopardy.

            Allowing two citizens of the same gender to have access to the right of marriage offered by the state – the entity that is sworn to protect and defend the rights of EVERY citizen – is reasonable considering the protections provided by our constitution. It does not infringe upon the rights of others to marry. It does not require that anyone agree with it. It does not require that anyone engage in it, other than those who choose to do so.

            I know it is difficult for some people to accept that there is sometimes a difference between what is legally allowed and what you, or I, or anyone else may believe is “right”. But that is part and parcel of having the freedom, liberty, and equality that we do. If we want it for ourselves, then we must be willing to grant it to others – even those with whom we disagree.

            Again, congratulations on your long, and I hope, happy marriage.

            Oh, and my apologies for the gender mixup. As you say, times have changed – Lynn is not that common of a male name anymore. “Caden” was #8 last year. Caden? Really? Kids today………

          • KenS

            “it does not require that anyone engage in it, other than those who choose to do so.” this is the lie that the pro-gay community has been promoting then twisting when they do get their way by forcing business owners to engage in the said ceremonies.
            If this were true, then they would make a distinction between a civil union and a holy marriage, so that a business owner can then make the same distinction without fear of being sued for discrimination.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “by forcing business owners to engage in the said ceremonies. ”

            No business owner has been “forced” to do anything. Opening a business is a choice. Deciding what services to offer is a choice. No one can be “forced”. Suggesting that they can be “forced” is the lie.

            “then they would make a distinction between a civil union and a holy marriage”

            That already exists. Civil marriage is distinct from religious marriage ceremonies.

          • KenS

            No it is not, if it was then they would not be able to claim discrimination from the business owners.

            If there was a distinction, then it would be the same as a person going to a restaurant that sells vegetarian meals and that is all that is on the menu and demanding that they serve him a big juicy steak.!!!!

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            You have no idea how discrimination laws work, do you?

            A baker could not choose to offer wedding cakes only for “holy matrimony” services as that would violate discrimination laws based upon religious belief.

            “going to a restaurant that sells vegetarian meals and that is all that is on the menu and demanding that they serve him a big juicy steak.!!!!”

            Not even close. A consumer cannot force a business to offer any particular product – that choice is solely up to the business owner. However, whatever products the business chooses to offer, it must do so in compliance with anti-discrimination laws.

          • KenS

            The point im making here is you have a food menu of items avail to choose from at a restaurant, and if the gays really only wanted the legal benefits of a civil union, then a business just like a restaurant would be able to have a menu of what kind of weddings they do, and if civil unions between man and man and woman and woman is not on the menu, they do not have to provide it.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            That’s a pretty thin line, but I understand your distinction. Might fly, but might not. Again, a fine line legally.

            Regardless, civil unions are off the table. Just marriage as far as the law is concerned. We may well see some attempts to allow “religious conscience” exemptions for anti-discrimination laws, but that, too, is legally suspect. Mainly because it would basically amount to the ability to discriminate against anyone, as it would be impossible to judge what would, or would not, be a sincerely held religious belief. A racist person could say that it is there sincerely held religious belief that the races should not mix. Or that anyone who does not have a Christian church based wedding is sinning. I certainly would not like the courts to be involved in determining what does and does not qualify as a sincerely held religious belief.

          • KenS

            I can see your point, but if we were to have a distinct definition according to God’s word for a Holy Matrimony Marriage and all other marriages, I do not see how that could get twisted.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            There are some churches which perform same-gender marriage ceremonies and say that they are “holy matrimony”. Therein lies the problem. Who is going to decide what is, and what is not, a “holy matrimony”?

          • KenS

            I just told you, you make a defintion from the bible, Matthew 19:5 is pretty clear defintion: 5 And said , For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            The bible doesn’t say anything about same-gender marriage, nor does it say that marriage is exclusively between two people of the same gender. The quote you provided deals with divorce.

            “I just told you, you make a defintion from the bible”

            So you prefer a Christian Theocracy to a constitutional republic, correct?

          • http://www.FascistDykeMotors.com/ Katy

            You’re 100% right here. The thing is, religions do NOT agree about who can marry. Catholics have a VERY different interpretation of what Scripture says about marriage than do the Unitarians or the Baptists.

            If the government tried to take a religious definition for marriage based on Scripture, it means that sooner or later, you WOULD have a court trying to determine as a matter of law what the Bible says about marriage.

            That means government would be stating what the correct interpretation of Scripture ought to be as a matter of law. Which doesn’t sound good to anyone, does it?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Certainly doesn’t sound good me.

          • KenS

            are you dense? I was trying to show how we can have a compromise in order to keep a constitutional republic that still honors the free exercise clause of the constitution. All it will take is a Definition of a Religious Marriage and a Civil Marriage and then the buisness can offer as part of their list of goods and services, Religious Marriages or Civil marriages or both if they are so inclined.

          • Paul Hiett

            Yet, you refuse to acknowledge what is clearly in the Bible.

          • The Last Trump

            Wow. Your foolishness is astounding.
            Hear that folks?! The atheist is telling the Christian woman SHE is wrong!?
            YOU refuse to acknowledge what is clearly in the Bible, so much so as to even disregard confessions from Christian women who put into practice the Bible’s direction and are living the life it describes. Not surprising. Will-full blindness is a well known side effect of atheism. How ridiculous you continue to look!
            Thank you again, Paul. For reminding us with each post why we wisely made our decisions for Christ.

          • torqueflite

            Temple idolaters and male prostitutes cannot be equated with loving gay couples.

          • lynn

            Problem is that you are spiritually discerned. You read the bible lierally as a natural man without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. You are unable to compare the holy scriptures with spiritual truth. There is only one thing you can do to change that, and that is to seek God. Jesus Chrisr is the only way to salvation. Gary may come across a lttle harsh sometimes, but he is telling you the truth. I don’t think you even want the truth, but just wan’t to be the center of attention on this board. I could say a lot more but I refrain to do so for the moment.

          • Rev. Carolyn D. Thomas

            Here is what is clearly written in the Bible. From 1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornacators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Now, with that said one may think; Gosh, then no one will go to heaven, BUT, Jesus came and went to the cross for our sin so when we ask Jesus into our heart, repent (turn away) from our sin, we are forgiven. The key word here is REPENT. If any Homosexual really and truly repents then he or she is forgiven but they must give up that life style. My heart as a Christian is to love the homosexual but it is not to condone the behavior of a homosexual lifestyle. God bless.

          • torqueflite

            You’re entitled to your beliefs per the First Amendment; I would always defend that right. Believe with all your heart that gay people are going to hell if that belief floats your boat. Doesn’t matter one whit to me provided you respect my rights to believe as I choose and to share equally with you in pursuing the American Dream. As a former Presbyterian and loyal American, I am really pleased the PCUSA has recognized that loving gay couples can marry. Have a nice day.

          • Rev. Carolyn D. Thomas

            God is so gracious that He gave us choices, you can either accept the Scriptures or you can reject them. That is your right. My comment will remain. I choose to love the person but I cannot condone the lifestyle. That is my choice and my right. Be blessed.

          • Logic&Emotion

            We need people like you making the comments that you do. I need people like you. Your a blessing to many, and I encourage you to continue your messages in this way. Your approach is very mature, very organized, and extremely knowledgeable about human reaction. In a cold dark world you are a light. Thank you!!!

          • torqueflite

            Sad.

        • lynn

          God made Eve from one of Adams ribs. The ribs are close to the heart indicating she should be loved and cherrished. He didn’t create her ftom a bone from Adams feet indicating that she should be walked on.

        • Logic&Emotion

          I must say you are amazing, I have read the things you have to say and I’m convinced you know God. God bless you as you give the true meaning of the word of God and Christ.

          • torqueflite

            Per the hardcore Christianists here, she’s “not called by God to preach.” Convenient isn’t it that only men are allowed to lead the church. If you believe that stuff you deserve to be treated as second class. That’s how these men, not God, see you.

          • Marvelatthis

            Is it difficult for you to understand that women have every right to minister to people? Ever hear of Joyce Meyers. When you say hardcore Christianist’s it reminds me of the worst of those that claim they know Jesus. An example of that is clearly The Westboro Baptist Church. If you are angry over women that speak for Christ, that is a problem you’ll have to deal with. I in no way am that person nor will I ever be.

      • http://www.OpenAirSeattle.blogspot.com/ OpenAirSeattle

        BS, you are void of the HG that’s why you state ignorance.

    • Frog 11

      So you’re referring to divorce?

  • Kent Taylor

    As people, anyone can vote and change any law they want. God and his word will never change. Plain and simple…..

    • John

      If you believe that everthing that Moses wrote was the word of God, then why did Jesus CHANGE that law by saying the complete opposite on Moses’s law that people should be put to death for working on the Sabbath? Jesus also changed teaching on divorce, teaching about vows, teaching about revenge. I guess the law can change when it is the right thing to do.

      • Gary

        Theology is not something one can know without time and God’s Spirit. One must understand the scriptures before making comments that really have no foundation. Do you understand all of the covenants in the Bible? You must understand the Mosaic Covenant to understand what, why, and for who the Ten Commandments were written for. Jesus never changed the teaching. He helped people understand that what really mattered was what was in a person’s heart. Change the heart, and the desires, be born again, and you will follow a different road!

      • lynn

        You would like for us to think that you are wise in the scriptures. Have you not read that Jesus said that God allowed some things that were in the law of Moses because of the hardness of mans heart? You might also note thst you was refering to Moses law, not God’s.

    • Gloria Lynn Truscott

      AMEN

    • Frog 11

      So we still stone people? It was morally commanded in the old testament for a variety of transgressions. It must still stand today, correct? Or were those different times? Am I taking things out of context? What was moral then is not moral now? In other words, morality changes with context? Thus “subjective”?

  • John

    “What do men of God find hard to understand in Romans 1”. This was written by Paul. He also wrote that Jesus was coming back tomorrow (~2000 years ago), Christians should judge others, women should not teach men, women should wear a covering over thier heads when praying to show respect for their husbands, it is better not to get married, people are born with an evil nature, he admits to being a thief (stealing from churches other than Corinth), scripture of old testament was mere human teachings, women should be submissive to their husbands, slaves should obey their masters and not talk back,…

  • TheBBP

    Soon they will put to vote on which of the Ten Commandments that they will recognize.

  • thoughtsfromflorida

    Isn’t is wonderful that we live in a country where religious denominations are free to set their policies?

    • Badkey

      R’amen!

  • Webb

    While they’re at it they might as well vote to replace Christ with Satan as the head of their “church”. They seem content to follow the father of lies.

  • Thomas Collins Jr June

    This is why I left that church…they no longer represent God’s word or teachings. May Christ have mercy.

  • Ron

    Idolatry, plain and simple. They are making up a false god to suit their own propensities for sin, and worshiping that false god instead of the Living Creator God. No false god can save us on the Day of Judgment. These are not Christians, but idolaters masquerading as Christians, misappropriating the name of Christ. That is a direct violation of at least three of the Ten Commandments: Have no other gods before God, and Do not take the Name of the LORD in vain, and Do not bear false witness (calling “marriage” what is clearly NOT marriage).

    • Paul Hiett

      And yet, here in America, they are free to worship as they want, and there’s nothing you can do about it.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Paul, Ron is not saying he IS going to do anything about it, besides warn them of the consequences of their falling away into apostasy. Ron is going to let God handle it. Ad handle it, He will. God bless you, Paul!

      • Eduardo Esteban Estes

        This is a discussion of where a CHURCH and its denomination is going astray.
        People have the right to attend there. I didn’t say worship because if they were they wouldn’t be going down this road.

    • Ron

      Yes, exactly, Paul. I wouldn’t have it any other way. As long as someone’s religion doesn’t require them to harm others, that First Amendment is there to protect their right to practice it. And in a free society, you need that.

      But as a Christian, I would definitely warn them, and point them to the appropriate passages which clearly say that they are in opposition to God’s will on this, and show them that unless they repent, He will not hold them blameless for their rebellion.

  • thoughtsfromflorida

    Isn’t it great we live in a country where religious groups are free to determine how they want to operate?

    • Badkey

      R’amen!

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        N’oodle!

  • Maria Wilson

    If you are a member of this church flee from it ,find another church where they are preaching God’s words not their own .

    • Paul Hiett

      What if they like that church? Why can’t you just learn to live and let live, and realize that not all religions believe exactly like you do?

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        “Why can’t you just learn to live and let live, and realize that not all religions believe exactly like you do?”

        Is that what you are doing by coming onto this site? You refute yourself.

        • Paul Hiett

          We’re not trying to force people to live by the rules of text written over 2000 years ago.

          • Gary

            But you are trying to force people to live by what you believe.

          • Paul Hiett

            No, we’re not, not even close. No one is trying to force you to live by a religion you don’t agree with.

          • Gary

            Then no one is trying to force you to live by a religion you don’t agree with.

          • Paul Hiett

            Christians and Muslims are.

          • Gary

            You are a liar. But I think we will have to settle this through violence. Living in peace is impossible.

          • Paul Hiett

            And I bet I know who’ll be at the front of the line hoping to kill some “perverts”, right Gary?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Paul, are you not getting this?!? Yes, your side is trying to force our side into accepting gay “marriage.” Do you not see the hypocrisy here? It’s fine and dandy for you to fight for what you believe is right, but please do not even pretend that you are trying to “live and let live.” The actions of the Gaystapo and GayJihadis say otherwise.

          • Paul Hiett

            *sigh*

            You don’t have to accept it. You can even preach on the sidewalk about how much you hate gay people.

            But, you also can’t actively interfere with their pursuit of happiness. Hate them if you want to, go right ahead. Refuse to accept or acknowledge any gay marriages.

            The only thing that matters is that the law recognizes their marriage, not you, nor the Church. Your claim is false.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Paul, have you been living under a rock?!?

            The Gaystapo is forcing Christian business owners to not only accept, but validate, their “marriages.” In fact, they are even suing churches that refuse to validate their “marriages.” So, this myth that your side is spreading about how it doesn’t affect anyone is most certainly false. And you know it. I realize that, as an a-theist, you don’t care about religious freedom, but, please do not pretend for a minute that you are trying to “live and let live.” That is quite laughable. And, you would not be on this site pushing your view if you were.

            And, this does not even address the negative effects on the children of gay “parents.” https://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2015/02/10/new-study-children-of-same-sex-parents-have-twice-as-many-emotional-problems/#comment-119744

            As for “You can even preach on the sidewalk about how much you hate gay people.”

            “sigh” Why am I not surprised that you would pull the homo-phobe card?!? FYI, I LOVE gay people. I love them so much that I encourage them to avoid the destructiveness of the gay lifestyle and re-direct their same-sex attraction. Many are doing this quite successfully. You can leave the lifestyle too, Paul, if you feel trapped. God bless you, Paul!

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “The Gaystapo is forcing Christian business owners to not only accept, but validate, their “marriages.”

            Simply a lie. No one is “forced” to open a business and no business owner is “forced” to offer a certain product. Those are choices. Further, no one can be “forced” to accept something. We all have free will to accept or not accept whatever we care to. How do you reconcile lying with your supposed Christian faith?

            “In fact, they are even suing churches that refuse to validate their “marriages.””

            Examples?

            “I love them so much that I encourage them to avoid the destructiveness of the gay lifestyle and re-direct their same-sex attraction.”

            What destructiveness is inherent in being gay?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “No one is “forced” to open a business and no business owner is “forced” to offer a certain product.”

            You seem to be saying that anyone who opens a business is “fair game” for attacks on their religious freedoms. That would make you quite callous wrt the many people who have been attacked in this regard: http://www.adfmedia.org/files/

            It is quite intellectually dishonest for you to turn a blind eye to the numerous attacks by the Gaystapo in recent years. I have provided you a variety of attacks on religious freedoms, including others, all with source citations. To pretend this is not happening is either dishonesty on your part or willful ignorance, in either case a sign of your very low character. And the examples provided in the link are merely federal cases of trampling, not the many state cases – going after florists and bakers and photographers. Unless you have been living under a rock, you know what I mean. And the fact that you might agree with these Gestapo-like tactics is merely a sign of your moral depravity.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “You seem to be saying that anyone who opens a business is “fair game” for attacks on their religious freedoms. ”

            That is not at all what I am saying. What I am saying is that people are not “forced”, as you contended, to violate their religious beliefs.. If they CHOOSE to open a business and CHOOSE to offer certain products that they KNOW are required to be offered in accordance with the laws in place where their business operates, and they CHOOSE to break those laws, nothing is being “forced” on them.

            You seem to be suggesting that a person is legally able to violate the law without consequence by citing religious belief. That is not the case. Over 100 years of case law has established that religious belief does not excuse a business owner from being held accountable for violating anti-discrimination laws.

            ” a blind eye to the numerous attacks by the Gaystapo in recent years.”

            Are you suggesting that holding a business owner accountable to the law is an “attack”? If a black person were turned away because of race, and filed a complaint with authorities, would that also be an “attack”?

            ” variety of attacks on religious freedoms”

            There is no freedom to violate the law based upon religious beliefs.

            “not the many state cases”

            Many? Really? How “many” are you aware of?

            ” you might agree with these Gestapo-like tactics”

            How is holding a business accountable for violating the law a “Gestapo-like” tactic? You might want to consider reviewing this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

            “To pretend this is not happening”

            I have not pretended that there are a very small number of business owners who have been held accountable for violating anti-discrimination laws. There have been.

            Anti-discrimination laws were put into place either by a vote of the electorate or their representatives. You know, that process that some people say is so sacrosanct that the judiciary should not be ruling on such decisions. They have nothing to do with same-gender marriage laws.

            If you have issue with anti-discrimination laws, then please feel free to work to get them changed, or to carve out exemptions based upon religious belief. But to suggest that people are “forced” is simply not true. Opening and operating a business are choices. No one is “forced”. Further, in no case have any of the owners in those suits been “forced” to provide any product, nor have they.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “Examples?”

            http://eaglerising.com/6712/go

            http://www.foxnews.com/opinion

            https://www.lifesitenews.com/n

            Google. It’s a wonderful invention. And if you say,”well, it’s just a few isolated cases,” then I guess the slippery slope argument holds, especially as we are now seeing it come into play in other ways, refuting the Gaystapo claim that “everything will be fine and there will be no slippery slope.”

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            The first link regards events in Denmark, which does not provide the same protections that are found in the US constitution.

            The second link is to a page, but not to a specific opinion piece. I wasn’t able to find anything on the page that referenced the topic we are discussing. Can you provide something more specific?

            The third link I could not get to work at all. Says “Page Not Found”.

          • Logic&Emotion

            I certainly agree with your statement. I would like for you to see the statement, and statements by throughtsfromflorida. His historical comments fly in the face of anything he currently says. Why is this important to me? Because the man has no conscious, and the man is destructive. Paul on the other hand I’ve had conversations with him, and he is a good person. I know he is an atheist, but he is at least intelligent. I cannot say the same for the above mentioned and it concerns me greatly that sites allow him to post some obviously terrible things to feed a bruised ego.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            ROFLMAO

          • Logic&Emotion

            Not a problem.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            I could not agree with you more. I have a ton of respect for positive evidentialist a-theists. I was one once, and I befriend many of them. These are intellectually honest people.

            LOVE your picture and pseudonym! I miss Spock already. I still check out the original series quite frequently. Although Roddenberry was a humanist who could not stand organized religion, he belies a lot of Christian themes in that series, if one looks closely and carefully.

          • Logic&Emotion

            Thank you. Yes many of the theme’s back in that day had to do with a number of issues even the cold war. I miss him as well. Your a kind and generous person and I agree we need people like you as well. I appreciate your comment. Have a great day!

          • KenS

            I’ll state this again Paul, If the gay community only wanted the same legal benefits afforded to a marriage like they claimed in the first place and not the holy matrimony or religious ceremony, then why oh why are they insisting on having a wedding ceremony treated just like a holy ceremony and forcing businesses to perform said ceremonies against their religious beliefs. No, they did not just want the legal benefits, they want the church to change their religion to make what is clearly defined as sin in the bible be considered good and righteous instead.

      • The Last Trump

        Says the atheist stalking the Christian website!!
        Right back at ‘cha. Hypocrite.

      • Gary

        Some non-Christians do like that church. Fine with me.

    • Badkey

      So, you don’t believe people can follow their heart on their way to god?

      Good grief… you’re sad.

      • Gary

        The Bible says to follow God, not your heart.

  • Maria Wilson

    Matthew 24 King James Version (KJV)

    24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

    2 And
    Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto
    you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not
    be thrown down.

    3 And
    as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him
    privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall
    be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

    5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    6 And
    ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled:
    for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

    7 For
    nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and
    there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers
    places.

    8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

    10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

    11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

    12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

    13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    15 When
    ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by
    Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him
    understand:)

    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

    19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

    20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    22 And
    except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:
    but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

    23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

    24 For
    there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew
    great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall
    deceive the very elect.

    25 Behold, I have told you before.

    26 Wherefore
    if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:
    behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

    27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

    29 Immediately
    after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the
    moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and
    the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    30 And
    then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall
    all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man
    coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    31 And
    he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they
    shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of
    heaven to the other.

    32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

    33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

    35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

    36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    38 For
    as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and
    drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe
    entered into the ark,

    39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    • Faithwalker

      Amen!

  • Christian Artist Matthew Brown

    My first public testimony: Delivered of being gay and transgender by JESUS
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjOxRAw7nW8

    • TheBBP

      Outstanding! Stay strong, brother.

    • Faithwalker

      I just finished viewing your testimony. I thank God for your deliverance. May God continue to keep and hold you through Jesus Christ.

  • Reason2012

    Since they think they have the authority to redefine what God defined, why not “vote” on whether adultery is still a sin. Or vote on whether covetousness is still a sin. Vote on whether lying is still a sin.

    There’s no such a thing as “same – gender marriage.

    And everyone already has the freedom to marry one person of the opposite gender – every single person. They do not want this right then claim they’re being denied it.

    The issue is does the state have the right to re-define religious institutions and pass laws to establish this new religious institution, which would in effect be passing laws to establish a new state religion (violation of the establishment clause of the First Amendment), which in turn would criminalize Christian belief about marriage (another violation of the First Amendment).

    And on both counts, states do not have any right to do any such thing – we’re protected from such judicial religious tyranny by the Constitution of the United States of America.

    Not to mention that every single man already has the same right as every other man: to marry one woman. And every single woman already has the same right as every single woman: to marry one man. So the claim anyone’s being denied “equal rights” is a lie.

    Jesus pointed out that marriage is between one man and one woman:

    Matthew 19:4-6 “And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus even points out that for the cause of making them male and female, this is why male will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife.

    Mark 10:5-7 “And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. (6) But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (7) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;”

    Jesus said God made them male and female – not male and male – not female and female.

    Jesus said man shall leave father and mother, not father and father, not mother and mother.

    Jesus said man shall cleave to his wife, not to his husband, not to her wife.

    Not to mention Jesus is God, so the entire Word of God is the Words of Christ. As Jesus is The Word.

    John 1:1-3 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) The same was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

    John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

    The Lord rebukes us for our attempts to destroy what He defined as one man and one woman.

    As if that’s not enough,

    (1) Marriage is a religious institution that has existed since the beginning of time.

    (2) The government is violating the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America by REDEFINING religious institutions then passing laws to establish this new state religion where anyone who does not adhere to this new state religion is condemned as a criminal: sued and fined thousands of dollars.

    (3) Marriage is for the possibility of procreation for the continuance of society. A same-gender marriage is, by design, never capable of such a thing.

    (4) Any pro-creation should be within a marriage – same-gender ‘marriages’ are forced to go outside the ‘marriage” 100% of the time by design.

    (5) Kids have the right to be raised by their biological mother and father – same-gender marriages deny them this right 100% of the time, by design.

    (6) Kids have the right to be raised by a mother and a father, not forced into setups that are dysfunctional 100% of the time: two or more fathers and no mother, or two or more mothers and no father.

    (7) Every single person alive has one biological mother and one biological father. Nature alone re-iterates what marriage is – that this is what a family is.

    (8) A black man who has no problem baking cakes for white people cannot be forced to bake cakes for the ACT of a “whites are supreme” meeting and so on. LIkewise a Christian who has no problem baking cakes for those who currently profess homosexuality cannot be forced to bake a cake for the ACT of a same-gender wedding.

    • Reason2012

      Even children who grew up forced to be in homosexual “households” condemn it and expose it for the depravity is truly inflicts on children.

      http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/lauretta-brown/adults-raised-gay-couples-speak-out-against-gay-marriage-federal-court

      Christian beliefs criminalized: fined many thousands of dollars and sued if you get out of line with this new State Religion

      A sampling of how criminalizing Christian beliefs on marriage because it now violates this new State Religion and how all of this is a violation of the Constitution of the United States on many levels:

      Mayor calls own city’s churches “criminals”.

      http://www.wnd.com/2015/01/mayor-calls-own-citys-churches-criminals/

      Bakery fined $150,000

      http://www.kgw.com/story/news/local/2015/02/02/ruling-gresham-bakery-discriminated-against-same-sex-couple/22760387/

      Christian fired by Ford for expressiong his disagreement over them promoting homosexuality in newsletters.

      http://christiannews.net/2015/02/08/ford-contractor-says-he-was-fired-for-speaking-against-companys-support-of-homosexuality/

      It was Ekstrom who said last month that Stutzman personally was liable for the claims against her, placing both her business assets and her home and personal savings at risk.

      The judge ordered that the state and the homosexual plaintiffs, each of whom filed lawsuits, could collect damages and attorneys’ fees from Stutzman.

      “The message of these rulings is unmistakable: The government will bring about your personal and professional ruin if you don’t help celebrate same-sex marriage,” said ADF Senior Counsel Kristen Waggoner.

      http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/judge-authorizes-personal-ruin-for-florist/

      http://christiannews.net/2015/02/19/christian-florist-found-guilty-of-discrimination-for-declining-gay-wedding-could-lose-home-life-savings/

      “I write because I am one of many children with gay parents who believe we should protect marriage. I believe you were right when, during the Proposition 8 deliberations, you said “the voice of those children [of same-sex parents] is important.” I’d like to explain why I think redefining marriage would actually serve to strip these children of their most fundamental rights.”

      http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/02/14370/

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        “A sampling of how criminalizing Christian beliefs on marriage”

        How do you square deception with your supposed faith in Christianity?

        Christian beliefs on marriage are not criminalized. If they were, you would be in jail.

        • Reason2012

          Christians are being forced by law to violate their beliefs. If they do not, they are fined many thousands of dollars (the latest up to $150,000). If you wish to twist that into “it’s not being criminalized” you only show everyone else how dishonest activists are and for that I thank you.

          • Paul Hiett

            You claim “Christians” as though it’s a blanket law targeting Christians specifically. That’s very misleading.

            No one is being forced to violate their beliefs…business owners must abide by the laws governing commerce. Those laws may be in conflict with their religious beliefs, but that does not give them any excuse to violate the laws of this country.

            If you don’t like the laws of commerce, don’t open a business. If you do, then abide by those laws.

            Pretty simple.

          • Reason2012

            Hello. No, it’s fact that Christians that do not violate their beliefs on marriage are treated as criminals and fined many thousands of dollars, sued, businesses shut down and even fired. Facts betray your claim.

            Fining someone up to $150,000 for NOT supporting an anti-Christian ACT is not being forced to violate their beliefs? Thank you for showing everyone else how dishonest activists typically are. You guys guy greedy too early and tipped your hand to show the hate behind your movement – you should have waited until it was legal everywhere first – you are waking a sleeping giant.

            It’s the ‘law of commerce” for a black baker who has no problem baking cakes for white people to be forced to bake a cake for “whites are superior” or “blacks are inferior” meetings? Where is this law that says black backers can be treated with such bigotry?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Please name one Christian who has been forced to actually provide a service that is in violation of their beliefs.

            Since a person cannot be forced to own a business or forced to offer certain products, they cannot be forced to violate their beliefs. Owning and business and offering certain products are both CHOICES. There is no forcing.

            No one has had charges filed against them because of their beliefs. Charges have been filed because they acted on those beliefs in conflict with the law. it would be like saying that if a person got arrested for standing in front of their house at 3 am using a bullhorn to share their religious beliefs, that Christian beliefs were being criminalized. In that example, it wasn’t the belief that was being criminalized, it was the action that was illegal.

            Again, how do you square deception with your supposed faith in Christianity?

    • Paul Hiett

      No one is trying to re-define a “religious institution”, and your
      idea of a “state religion” is just…well…ludicrous. We strive for a
      separation of Church and State, and no where has any state attempted to
      do what you’re suggesting.

      Further, those of us who do not believe
      in your choice of a religion should not and should NEVER be subjected
      to your ideology. We should be free from your belief system, and no law
      should ever be passed that forces someone to live by rules of a
      religious text. You wouldn’t tolerate Sharia Law, so why should we
      tolerate your Christian laws?

      Also, you are NOT protected by the
      Constitution to force your viewpoints on the rest of us in the form of
      “laws”. Your right to believe whatever you want is protected, and your
      right to worship as you want…beyond that, you have no more rights.

      Marriage
      in this country is not decided by Christianity…or Judaism, or Islam,
      or any religion period. Christians do not get to limit who marries
      whom, or who sleeps with whom.. Sorry if that flies in the face of your
      belief system, but the rest of us will not tolerate living under your
      thumb of rule any longer.

      • Gary

        I don’t think a civil war can be avoided, given that the two sides will never agree and never tolerate the other side.

        • Paul Hiett

          Actually, Gary, there are more people who either agree with SSM, or simply don’t care because they know it does nothing to harm anyone.

          Spare me your wounded rhetoric as well…you, and everyone else who thinks like you…have yet to provide any proof what so ever that SSM affects you in any way, shape, or form.

          But, if you still feel the need to kill some gay people in the name of your loving Father, go right ahead. But remember, you make the choice to break the laws, so be prepared to suffer the consequences.

          • Gary

            Many illegal activities go unsolved and unpunished.

          • KenS

            Gary, im sorry but you have just proved that you are not a Christian with that statement.

      • Reason2012

        They’re trying to redefine what they NEVER defined to begin with: marriage: a religious institution. That is, in effect, a new religion and hence is being established by force of law and then anyone who does not violate their own beliefs to get in line with theirs is classified a criminal and fined many thousands of dollars. sued, business shut down, fired and more.

        So the entire country should be legally subjected to YOUR belief system? Hypocrisy. The human race has been following marriage for as long as it’s existed – to instead now claim YOU get to REdefine it and legally FORCE everyone else to violate their beliefs and follow yours is again just blatant hypocrisy.

        And you are not protected by the Constitution to force YOUR viewpoints on the rest of us in the form of laws. Do what you wish in private – force it on the rest of us, that we must violate everyone else’s beliefs to adhere to yours? No.

        Marriage has always been decided by how it’s been defined by God long before this country or any laws existed. To demand to REDEFINE it to suit you, treating as criminals anyone who does not violate their beliefs to adhere to yours is a double violation of the Constitution: creating your own state religion and prohibiting others from not violating theirs.

        So where is your millennia-old religious text that defines marriage as two men, then we can talk.

    • Aislynn

      With modern technology it is possible to create viable sperm from female bone marrow. So you could have two women where one woman is the biological mother and one woman is the biological father. The child of such a union has the right to be raised by their biological parents who are joined in a legal marriage.

      My religion happily marries same gender couples and I have the religious freedom to perform a legal marriage recognized by both the state and my faith just as you do. Denying this to me while you retain that right is religious persecution of my faith.

      I agree that marriage throughout history has been a religious institution. It is not however a uniquely Christian institution. Modern marriage is also a legal contract between consenting adults.

      If you are a business owner with a public business you cannot pick and choose who you will serve when it will result in discrimination against a person. Most states have laws stating that you as a business owner will follow state and federal anti-discrimination laws. So when you apply for a business license you are agreeing to abide by these laws and policies.

      • Reason2012

        Hello. Please cite the scientific, peer reviewed journal that proves they did this with human beings, where a woman generated her own sperm. Not by modifying a man’s sperm, which again only shows they STILL need a man they used in the experiment is the father and they modified his sperm. Show the woman generating her own sperm, not using a man’s and modifying it, as they still need a man to perform this perverse “procedure”.

        No, a lab experiment does not make a woman a father.

        What religion do you speak of that defined marriage thousands of years ago, rather than just saying “we’ll call it a marriage in our church today even though we haven’t done so for thousands of years” when they were supposed to be following the Bible or some other text that never called two men a marriage.

        Marriage by definition is more than just “consenting adults” – otherwise an adult could marry his dad, or marry his parents, or have polygamy, or redefine what “adult” means and call 14 and 20 year olds “consenting adults” and so on.

        marriage is defined as one man and one woman. And every single person has that right.

        So show the law that says a black man who has no problem baking a cake for white people must cave to being targeted and forced to bake a cake for ACTS like “whites are superior” meetings or “blacks are inferior” meetings. No business license can force him to be subjected to clear bigotry as a means to try ruining him, which is exactly the bigotry the activists are using to criminalize all Christians who have businesses or get them fired from their jobs for refusing to violate their beliefs.

    • lynn

      What you said is true. Marriage is a religious institution. Therefore the first ammendment exempts the government from changing anything therein.

  • Gary

    I wish the pcusa would stop claiming to be Christians. They should not try to claim that God approves of what they are doing.

    • Paul Hiett

      Pot, meet kettle.

      • Gary

        My beliefs about marriage are in accord with the Bible.

        • KenS

          but your beliefs about how to handle non-Christians and their beliefs are not in accordance with the bible.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Redifining marriage is a blatant rebellion against God and it is same as denying the existence of sin. If a “church” can bless such a heinous sin as homosexuality, what can it declare as sin? None.

  • Evangelina Vigilantee

    The Word of God is what defines Christianity:
    Leviticus 18:22 – Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it abomination.

    1 Corinthians 6; 9-11
    Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

    Romans 1:26-28 –
    For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

    Leviticus 20:13 – If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood upon them.

  • Dale52

    The members of the PCUSA who voted for this, as well as who vote for the denominations pro-Abortion policies, are Blaspheming the Holy Spirit by declaring God to be the author and approver of these sins. That is so high-handed and insolent, slandering the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, that it is known as the “unforgivable sin.” Once people have gone beyond the point of doing this, they can no longer be saved. The Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, neither in this age nor in the age to come, said Christ (Matthew 12:31, 32; Mark 3:28-29; cf. Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31. Those who still love Christ will run, not walk, away from the PCUSA.