ABC Family’s ‘The Fosters’ Generates Controversy Over TV’s First-Ever Kiss Between Teen Boys

Fosters IIMonday night’s episode of “The Fosters” on ABC Family, a sitcom created by two homosexual men, is generating controversy after two of its teenage male actors kissed each other on screen in an episode about same-sex feelings among youth—the first-ever depiction of its kind on American television.

The sitcom, created by Peter Paige and Bradley Bredeweg, and produced by actor Jennifer Lopez’s production company, Nuyorican, centers around two lesbians who raise both foster children and biological children together. In Monday night’s episode, characters Jude and Connor, played by Hayden Byerly, 14, and Gavin MacIntosh, 15, kiss each other as they realize that their relationship has developed into more than just friendship.

Paige and Bredeweg told The Wrap that they had planned the scene for some time, but thought that they should hold off on it until the second season. They stated that since they both identify as homosexuals, the scene both reflects their young “coming out” and serves to connect with young viewers who also experience homosexual feelings.

“Both Brad and I are gay men and it felt very true to both of our early coming out experiences,” Paige told the publication. “More than anything else, we felt responsibility to those kids and to our younger selves who didn’t see themselves reflected anywhere.”

“When people question the scene my response has been: ‘Everyone has a first kiss and you remember it. How old were you?'” Bredeweg added. “Ninety percent of people who have an answer come back and say, ‘I was 12, 13 and 14 years old,’ and I say, ‘Exactly. It was time to see this, time to put this up for the world.'”

The creators also noted that they sat down with Byerly and MacIntosh’s parents before moving forward with the scene, and that they were “supportive” and “understood what we are trying to do.”

But not everyone is supportive of the episode. Social media blew up this week on both sides of the issue, with some applauding the scene and others expressing concern.

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“I can’t find the words to describe how evil this is–marketing sexual perversion to teens and pre-teens and in the process requiring these underage actors to act out homosexually,” Peter LaBarbera, President of Americans For Truth About Homosexuality (AFTAH) told Christian News Network. “This glamorization of a behavior that God calls ‘detestable’ is sickening–and it is destroying our nation because a nation that celebrates sin.”

He said that many parents will not agree with the creators’ motivation behind the broadcast.

“This whole immoral story line comes down to the need of ‘The Fosters’ homosexual creators to rationalize their sinful ‘gay’ lifestyle. Their perverse supposition is that this homosexual ‘first kiss’ is just like any other first kiss and so it deserves to be modeled to the nation,” LaBarbera stated. “The problem with that is that most parents are not buying this false moral equivalence. They don’t want their son spending too much time with girls—but they certainly don’t view him getting into a homosexual relationship with another boy as anything like that!”

He noted that homosexual behavior is increasingly being promoted in film and broadcast media.

“Now not only are Hollywood and the media ‘All Gay, All the Time,’ but they are pushing nonstop to normalize homosexual behavior to impressionable young people–even pre-teens,” LaBarbera said. “This is reckless and it will lead to more and more young people embracing destructive lifestyles that grieve the heart of our loving Creator.”

“If youth-corrupting propaganda like this doesn’t shake the Church into action, nothing will,” he stated. “Americans need to express their outrage to ABC Family for using their network to essentially teach and mainstream sexual perversion to a new and very young generation. We must not allow corporate America to corrupt our children with impunity.”

Editor’s Note: Those wishing to express concern to ABC Family may call 818-560-1000 or leave a message on their Facebook page by clicking here


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  • D Sims

    I thought the studies show that children living with gay parents did not produce gay children? So much for that study. One of our Junior High Grandkids ask us one time, “Why do so many kids at school think it is cool to be gay or bi?”

    • MisterPine

      I hope you told them, or they learn on their own, that no one does it to be cool, they do it because they’ve simply fallen in love, and it happened to be with someone of the same gender.

      • D Sims

        She is right there among the same friends for years and she is smart enough to realize that after the culture started to exalt this practice that was when her friends started exploring and desiring to be cool like the Hollywood stars of Glee and others.

        • MisterPine

          I wouldn’t say the culture “exalted” the practice but more legitimized it and told people that if you were gay you didn’t need to kill yourself which I think is a positive thing. It isn’t like they can change.

          • D Sims

            I agree with you about how people are treated. I work in an inner city ministry where there are every kind of practice and person you can imagine. We feed, cloth and help all people with the love of Christ. We speak the truth in love. We see many, even those that walk in many differing sexual practices find hope and freedom from being enslaved. They all would look you in the eye and say come and follow Jesus. There will always be hate crimes against many things, for this is the way of man, but there are some of us that take another path.

        • thoughtsfromflorida

          You mean the majority of the stars on Glee who are heterosexual?

      • Gary

        Homosexuality is perversion. It is intentional. They do have a choice.

        • Paul Hiett

          No doubt you cheered when you read CNN’s headline this morning.

          • Gary

            I did not see it.

          • Paul Hiett

            ISIS throwing gays off of buildings in Syria.

          • Gary

            Interesting.

          • lynn

            That’s easy to judge. It is evil.

          • Paul Hiett

            Ask Gary what he’d like to do to gays. He’s said it before on here, multiple times.

        • MisterPine

          That’s ridiculous, hateful and outdated thinking.

          • Gary

            Ridiculous? No. Hateful? Irrelevant. Outdated? Only to some.

          • MisterPine

            It’s mean-spirited and small-minded. You cannot change your sexuality. If you are homosexual you should not have to kill yourself.

          • Gary

            You don’t have to follow every urge you have. Behavior is a choice.

          • MisterPine

            You should be allowed to fall in love. Are you saying if you’re homosexual that you must live a loveless and sexless life?

          • Gary

            God offers no method for moral homosexuality.

          • MisterPine

            As far as you know. But people have the right to live their own lives and be happy and make their own decisions. If you think God’s going to be unhappy with some of those decisions then you should let God worry about that.

          • Gary

            God will deal with perverts. But God expects me to oppose such wickedness, so I do.

          • MisterPine

            Homosexuals are not “perverts”. That’s a horrible thing to say.

          • Gary

            Yes, they are. Homosexuality is perversion.

          • MisterPine

            Why?

          • Gary

            Because the Bible says so.

          • MisterPine

            Well then, the Bible is wrong.

          • Gary

            I disagree.

          • MisterPine

            It doesn’t matter that you disagree. This is something science knows much better these days.

          • Gary

            Science does not dictate morality. God says that homosexuals are perverts. That settles it.

          • MisterPine

            God didn’t say it. The Bible which was written by human beings said it. A long time ago when we didn’t have the knowledge we have now.

          • Gary

            I don’t care what you believe. But I do care what the Bible says, and that is what I am going to believe and live by. And that is why I will never accept homosexuals as being anything but wicked.

          • MisterPine

            Don’t you think a much more reasonable approach would be to speak to a homosexual or two before determining that every homosexual in earth is “wicked”?

          • Gary

            Don’t need to. What the Bible says is all I need to know.

          • MisterPine

            That’s hugely problematic then, does that mean you support genocide and slavery?

    • thoughtsfromflorida

      Yes, nothing cooler than to be the butt of teasing and bullying, told by some adults that you are going to burn in hell, and being told you aren’t deserving of equal rights and that it should be legal to discriminate against you.

      I mean, who WOULDN’T want to join up?

    • Inis_Magrath

      It’s a TV show, so the “children” aren’t “living with gay parents.” They are actors. It’s fiction. You do realize that the shows you see on TV aren’t real, right?

  • The Last Trump

    Shocking. Until you read, “a sitcom created by two homosexual men”.
    What else would you expect?

    • Webb

      A recruiting tool.

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        Oh, silly, TV shows aren’t a recruiting tool. The free blender you get when you turn gay is the recruiting tool.

        • Inis_Magrath

          I thought it was a toaster…

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Toaster? TOASTER? You got a toaster???????

  • The Lone Ranger

    Real Christians need to let ABC here from them, it don’t matter what kind of spin they put on it . Homosexuality is not normal. I’m not saying everybody needs to stop watching TV. however that’s what I decided to do a long time ago, especially immorality!!

    • Gary

      ABC does not care what Christians think. If they did, they would have never allowed the program to be aired.

    • D Sims

      To be honest, ABC knows that they will get a lot of free advertising out of this as people take up arms against it. Unfortunately this is the way the World turns.

  • Frank

    And this is why in my home and for my children.. No cable, no satellite tv, etc..
    Just PBS stations, movies we bought over the years, and video games. Other than that go play with your toys.

    If they push the issue, I push them and their companies out of my life, which includes the rest of my family. And I got happy, well adjusted, never complain kids.

    • dark477

      I really doubt that’s true and FYI you’re an awful parent

      • Gary

        You are wicked. From your navel out in every direction. Anyone who lets you around their children is taking a huge risk.

        • dark477

          I’d say you’re a greater danger to not just children but all humans and animals.

          • Gary

            I would be a danger to you.

  • Gary

    This is what happens when a culture rots from within. It will get worse. American society is dying from suicide.

  • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

    A homosexual lifestyle can never be normal
    No matter how many people accept it.

    This is why parents need to teach their children about God because the media is doing to much teaching of all things evil. Be careful what you hear.
    Guard your heart with all diligence.

    • dark477

      or you could teach children real values.

      • Gary

        You mean “values” like, perversion is good?

        • dark477

          that it’s ridiculous t judge someone because of their sexual orientation.

          • Gary

            I am judging their actions.

          • dark477

            according to you buy not according to real science.

          • Gary

            Science does not define morality.

          • Paul Hiett

            Neither does your choice of a religion.

          • dark477

            And? mortality changes with time, people already don’t have any issue with homosexuality and according to the latest poll over 56% support marriage equality

            http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/major-survey-shows-americans-support-sex-marriage-29417242

          • Gary

            Morality does not change with time. Homosexuality as wrong 5,000 years ago, and it still is.

          • dark477

            morality is determined by popularity if the majority doesn’t see homosexuality as wrong (and they don’t) then it isn’t

          • neutralibe

            You are so, so, so wrong.

            So if morality is determined by popularity – if you and 5,000 of your buddies decided to break into my house and steal my brand new couch because you liked it and thought you deserved it more, that would be “moral”.

            You’re so confused you think evil is good.

          • Angel Jabbins

            You are not using your bean…not thinking. So you think morality is decided by popular opinion?

            Ok, so If 56% or even 99% of the people decide it is ok to kill babies up to 1 year old, will you be fine with that?

            What if everyone agrees it is moral to kill off all people 65 and older? Fine with you? After all, they need to get out of the way to make room for the younger people, right?

            The Nazi’s convinced people that the Jews were less than human and eventually tortured and killed not only millions of Jews, but also homosexuals, and the mentally handicapped. The majority of the German people approved it, not realizing how far Hitler would take his evil plans. But they went along with it initially, turning in their friends and neighbors who were Jewish.

            There is no basis for morality in this world except that it comes from God. He gets to make the rules, not us, and we will all be called one day to give an account to Him. I thank God, morality is not by popular vote!

            So much for your ‘morality by public opinion’.

          • dark477

            yes, yes and yes. that’s morality works

          • neutralibe

            Uh, let’s see …. that’s no, no and no. You’re wrong.

          • Steve Miller

            So by your logic, Just a decade ago when over half the people said homosexuality was evil you agreed it was morally wrong?

          • neutralibe

            Exactly how the Roman Empire was destroyed. They all gave in to detestable and disgusting perversions and destroyed their own nation.

            Much like this one is doing, too.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Actually, at the time of the fall of the Roman Empire the official religion of the empire was Christianity.

            The Roman Empire fell because it became too large to effectively defend against invaders.

            Learn your history.

          • Angel Jabbins

            Not according to ‘real science’? Actually science has offered no proof at all for the existence of a gay gene. Someone on another blog made this comment. I thought he has a good point:

            “A gay gene simply cannot exist. If there ever was a gay gene, it would have passed out of the gene pool long before now. Any gene that prevents male-female copulation cannot be passed on to offspring”.

            Think about it…if this hypothetical ‘gay’ gene did exist and eventually became dominant, you could say goodbye to the human race.

            Homosexuality is harmful to the people who engage in homosexual acts and to society as a whole. Check it out…

            https://carm.org/is-homosexuality-dangerous

          • dark477

            there’s more to genetics than just genes , if the brain is wired a certain way then that’s also a genetic cause.

          • dark477

            there’s more to genetics than just genes , if the brain is wired a certain way then that’s also a genetic cause.

          • Angel Jabbins

            Give me scientific proof…It is all just conjecture. How can you prove how the brain is wired….nonsense!

          • dark477

            I’m just pointing out that there doesn’t need to be a specific gene for it to be genetic

          • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

            Lol. You are smart. I have never really thought about it this way.

          • Oboehner

            All right then pedo lover.

          • Logic&Emotion

            I hope you don’t claim to be a Christian.

          • Oboehner

            Why ever would that be?

          • Logic&Emotion

            First I must ask, do you?

          • Oboehner

            Why? What manner of pigeon-hole do you have in mind?

          • Logic&Emotion

            Thank you for answering the question.

          • MisterPine

            I can answer it. Oboehner is a born again fundamentalist Christian. He is also a young earth creationist and does not believe Catholics are Christians. Also he believes that evolution is a matter of faith and therefore a religion.

          • Logic&Emotion

            Thank you for the information. He did seem a bit nervous when I asked the question. He certainly made a crude, maybe even cruel remark. Evolutionary Theist. Interesting.

          • MisterPine

            Yes, and he is a rabid hater of homosexuals, whom he refers to as “turd burglars”. Excuse the crude language…it’s all his.

          • Oboehner

            And?

          • Logic&Emotion

            And what? I received the answers I requested from another source. There is no need for any other response.

          • dark477

            well I’m not going to judge someone if they’re a pedophile that hasn’t hurt any children and has no intention of doing so

          • Oboehner

            How about brother and sister? Father and daughter? If they are of age, no children were harmed. What about the guy and the horse?

          • dark477

            I don’t care. and animals cannot give consent

          • Jim Smith

            No it’s not! Accept it or not, homo’s will always have a negative stigma attached to them. Why? Because it’s unnatural and fundamentally disgusting.

      • Logic&Emotion

        I saw your comment: What to you is “real values”. You’ve made a claim but haven’t really explained what your talking about. I’m very interested in knowing. Thanks.

  • John

    How we treat one another was so important to Jesus. He made it his second greatest commandment and equal in importance to his first. I am sure you know someone who is gay. Did you speak with that person? If you did you would find out that they did not choose to be homosexual anymore than you and I chose to be heterosexual. We were made the way God wanted us to be made. It is easy to read and recite scriptures to make ourselves feel proud and superior to others. But it takes humility and compassion to understand the pain of others. The sheep were separated from the goats for a very good reason. The Pharisees would certainly have been the goats. I believe we have modern day Pharisees. Do you believe you are with the sheep or the goats?

    • Gary

      I am a sheep. But you are a goat. As are all sodomites.

      • John

        Gary I do not know who you are but if I had to guess, I would say an angry old white man. I pray for peace and understanding for you.

        • Gary

          Why would you say I’m an angry old white man? By the way, God will not answer the prayers of a sodomite, so you might as well not waste your time praying.

          • John

            Was I right? God will listen to all prayers. You don’t speak for God do you?

          • Gary

            Which god? Not the God of the Bible.

          • John

            The one we call JESUS!

          • Gary

            You don’t know Jesus Christ. If you did you would not be an apologist for sodomites.

          • Logic&Emotion

            Gary no offense intended, however your very mention of Apologetics leads me to believe that your attacking people on a personal level instead of an Idea, Concept, or Ideals such as World Views. Is your message about Jesus, or is it simply a form of entertainment. If logic serves me, there can be no winners by attacking someone on a personal level, especially from the standpoint of a comment section. To me that is not logical or even reasonable. By removing the words “you” your and or you’re from your discussion sticking to a discussion about the issues would in my belief serve you better. Something to think about.

          • Gary

            Opinions vary. I am here to oppose the evil of homosexuality. I am not here to try to convince homosexuals, or their enablers, that they are wrong. Others have tried that, and as you can see, it never works. You do what you think is best, and I will too.

          • Paul Hiett

            I’m starting to think that God, Jesus, and Christianity mean absolutely nothing to you…you just like hating gay people.

          • Gary

            If God had not condemned homosexuality, I would have no reason to oppose it.

          • Paul Hiett

            So we should toss adulterers from the tops of buildings too?

          • John

            Because Jesus was not quoted as saying anything about homosexuality. Your hatred for the gay community is coming from what was written by Paul.

          • Gary

            What Paul wrote was inspired by God. What Moses wrote was also. And Moses quoted God about homosexuality in Lev. 18:22 and 20:13. You cannot make the case from the Bible that God approves of homosexuals.

          • John

            YOU believe everything that was written by Moses or Paul was inspired by God. Because they also wrote that women were second class human beings to men and that one person could own another person (slavery) I believe it is wrong to assume this is what God says about homosexuality. Especially when we take the time to understand that they were made that way by God. All it takes is for you to take the time to educate yourself to what is true.

          • Gary

            If God made homosexuals and approves of them, then God also made adulterers, thieves, murderers, pedophiles, blasphemers, and liars. They could all say that God made them they way they are. As a sodomite enabler, you are just as wicked and perverted as they are.

          • Paul Hiett

            So homosexuals are the same as murderers? Murders are the same as someone who lies?

            You’re going to sit there and tell me you’ve never lied?

          • Gary

            You have no basis for saying that anything is immoral, or moral. What you believe is right and wrong is just your opinion, which is meaningless.

          • Paul Hiett

            You just claimed that a homosexual is the same as a murderer, as is a liar.

            Now, are you saying you’re never lied?

          • John

            A person chooses to do everything you listed to compare to homosexuaity. The problem in all of this is that you do not take the time to understand the life of a gay person. If you did you would find out that it is not a choice. This is the big difference in your comparison.

          • Paul Hiett

            It seems that people like Gary…people who think s exual orientation is a choice…can never seem to understand that what they are attracted to (what turns them on) has never been a choice.

            If you ask them if the same gender turns them on, they usually reply with “hell no”, thus proving that orientation is not a choice, but the logic is always lost on them.

          • Gary

            All behavior is a choice. All homosexual behavior is a choice. Every sodomite who engages in homosexuality chooses to do so. Don’t pretend that they have no control over what they do. And you have control over what you do. You are responsible.

          • Paul Hiett

            Choosing to have intercourse has always been a choice…for everyone. Heterosexual, homosexual…everyone.

            However, what is not a choice is what we find ourselves physically attracted to. For you, only women arouse you. For others, both genders are appealing…and for some, only members of the same gender arouse them.

            This is what you don’t seem to understand…that people have no control over what is sexually appealing to them.

          • lynn

            Woe to them that call evil good, and good evil.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            Your side seems to be the one experiencing all the woe right now.

          • lynn

            Not really. I am happy and content with my faith in Jesus Christ.Sin is sin,but some sins are worse than others. Do I sin? Yes.Do I like to sin?No.Do I really want to argue and condemn folks for acting ungodly? No . That’s not my place as a Christian . I can make righteous judgments based on what my bible teaches, but I can’t judge a heart. I have the right to say that I believe something is evil and should be shunned. But the most important thing that I can express to a person is contained in the gospel of Jesus Christ. There is no doubt at all in my mind and heart that homosexual behaviors are wrong, but it all comes down to this. Only God and the sinner can effectually change bad behaviors.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Sin is sin,but some sins are worse than others. ”

            You do realize those two statements are contradictory, right?

            Where in the Bible does it provide relativity to different sins? Or is that another one of those things you made up like not having to believe the parts of scripture that talk about how women are to be subservient to men? That was you, right?

          • lynn

            First off, I have never said, nor do I believe that women are subservient to men.
            Concerning some sins being worse than other sins.All you need is just a smidgen of common sense to understand that, but just to make you happy,I will give you a scripture to look at.
            First john chapter number 5, and verses 16 and 17 says there is a sin unto death,and a sin not unto death. That doesn’t leave much to argue about does it?

          • Paul Hiett

            Do you speak in church, or do you abide by what was written in 1 Corinthians?

          • lynn

            So far it doesn’t apply to me, but if and when I come face to face with the issue, I might get back to you, but I don’t think so . I am pretty sure that all you are looking for is a fuss, and it’s not worth my time. Perhaps your time would be better spent in an athiest discussion.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “First off, I have never said, nor do I believe that women are subservient to men.”

            Yes, I am aware of that – despite scripture being very clear on the issue. You have decided that you don’t like that part of scripture and therefore are not going to follow it.

            “says there is a sin unto death,and a sin not unto death.”

            That is regarding punishment. You said: “sin is sin”. Romans 6:23: ““For the wages of sin is death …””

          • lynn

            I didn’t make up anything. Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives even as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it. That says to me that I should be willing to give my life for my wife. And you say the bible says that she is subservient. Hardly

          • John

            Only God truly knows whether homosexality is good or evil. Neither you nor I have that answer.

          • Gary

            The Bible is very clear that homosexuality is immoral. You are a liar.

          • Paul Hiett

            Yes, yes, Leviticus…and that book also has a lot of laws regarding other things, such as working on the Sabbath, eating shrimp, etc, etc. You can’t cherry pick which “laws” you think are appropriate.

            Either they all are part of God’s word, or none of them.

          • John

            As I wrote earlier I will pray for peace and understanding for you.

          • Paul Hiett

            The Bible says a lot of things are “immoral”. I doubt you follow all of them though.

          • D Sims

            John, here Jesus tells us plainly God’s original intent. There is no need for Him to expound any further.
            “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?”

          • Better AndBetter

            Nowhere does it condemn not doing so.

          • John

            Jesus was responding to a question from the Pharisees about the divorce between a man and woman. If he was responding to a question about ssm you would have valid point.

          • Gary

            If God approved of ssm, the Bible would say so.

          • John

            Would the Bible say it? Maybe God knew the people back then could not handle that. But I believe God is constantly revealing new truths to us, we just have to be willing to make the effort to listen and learn.

          • Gary

            God said a lot about marriage. None of it included homosexuality. Your beliefs contradict the Bible. You are not a Christian.

          • Paul Hiett

            So what if he’s not (although I would bet he is). What does it matter who believes what as long as we don’t allow our religious opinions to affect how others live?

          • D Sims

            John, you seem like a well versed person in scripture. I know deep down you really do not believe that. Jesus did not narrow his point to simply address a divorce between a man and a woman. That would be a very important point in context that Jesus would have had to bring out.
            Matter of fact, to see truth in the whole context of these words Jesus did not even answer their question about divorce. He bypassed their question and took them back to the original intent of God in all of creation. What this did was stop them in their tracks, they could not answer Jesus because they knew what He said was the truth.

          • lynn

            Jesus said “My sheep hear My voice,and I know them,and they follow Me”

      • lynn

        I am very thankful that I am a sheep.

        • Gary

          All of us sheep are thankful that God included us in His flock

        • thoughtsfromflorida

          I hope you don’t live in Alabama, Hawaii, Kentucky, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Ohio, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, or Wyoming. The sheep there have reason for concern.

          • lynn

            I live in the back woods of Tennessee. I am very capable of living off of the land. Plenty of game, fish, and I raise a huge garden. We can, dry, and freeze enough to survive if we need to. Jesus said He is the Shepherd of the sheep fold. I am one of His sheep. Tennessee hills is a beautiful place to live. The old song says “A country boy can survive” That is very true.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            My comment was tongue-in-cheek. Beastality is not illegal in Tennessee.

    • TheBBP

      You don’t get to live in sin and then cry foul for being reminded that you are living in sin. You do not get to adopt sin as being OK then tell others that they are not being compassionate to your lifestyle because they, like the Bible still recognize your behavior as sinful. That is not how it works.

    • Reason2012

      God says those who give Him up He gives THEM up to homosexual attractions.

      Romans 1:22-28 “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

      For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;”

      And the logic “God made me a sinner, so it’s ok to sin” does not work. We are commanded to have a change of heart about sin, the desire to do it no more, to obey God.

      John 5:14 “Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.”

      John 8:11 “She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.”

      1 John 2:3-4 “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

      The “pain” of us all is we are slaves to sin – it’s evil to tell people “sin all you want – God won’t care and will let you into heaven anyway”.

      Luke 13:3 “I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”

      When people face God and are being cast into_hell, they’ll realize the ones that really did care for them or those who risked their hate to tell them the truth of God’s judgment and forgiveness.

      • John

        My Bible says the letter to the church in Rome was written by Paul. If I read other writings of Paul I see he also said Jesus was returning very soon (~2000 years ago), Christians should judge others, women should not teach men, women should wear a covering over their heads while praying to show respect to their husbands, it is better not to get married, people are born with an evil nature, he admits to being a theif to churches other than Corinth, and slaves should obey their masters and not talk back. Therefore I would not want to use the words from Paul as a weapon against innocent gay people.

        • Gary

          No one who engages in homosexuality is innocent. Neither is anyone who encourages them to act as homosexuals, or defends them.

        • Logic&Emotion

          Hi John. Just a little something to consider. Paul was handpicked by Jesus (I’m sure you have read the Bible related to that. Paul also killed new Christians indirectly because he was likely a Roman Commander. It is important to put into context what Paul said, and the letters he wrote to the new church’s developing in Rome, Corinth, Galatia, etc. Certainly his statements were a sign of the times, however, as the church grew, he became an advocate for structure in these new church’s, and amazingly he was widely accepted. He was a Roman citizen so people considered his words carefully and intensely. Most of his letters were trying to be a leader and encouragement to people who were being prosecuted for believing in Christ. That being said, I don’t agree with your statement. Paul is the only man recorded that had a direct conversation with Jesus after his ascension, and he was given the task of ministry to all people’s primarily those that were outside of Jewish law (the Gentiles). One of the studies that Paul indicated was actually an example from the scrolls of the Old Testament. Paul evidently studied the fall of Sodom and Gomorrah. The notice of Paul stating that God gave them up in perversion, and then stated right after that, not to judge lest you become judged by your own judgement. It’s interesting that Paul placed that information right after stating God gave them up to their own perversions.

          • John

            I would ask you to please consider that Paul was the only one to say he was handpicked by Jesus. You will say but it is recorded in Acts. Acts was written by Paul’s good friend Luke and we know that the introduction to Luke’s Gospel tells us that Luke evaluates the accounts of events. If he was a great friend of Paul, he would believe Paul was a credible source of information. So we really have to take Paul’s word that he was chosen by Jesus.

          • Reason2012

            Matthew 7:20 “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

            And yet the fruits of Paul say otherwise, along with the other apostles vouching for Him while you condemn Paul as a liar because you do not like what he says. So are we to believe the apostles coupled with the fruits of Paul, or you judging him as a liar?

            You are judging Paul as a liar. I would think twice.

            Matthew 7:1-2 “[Jesus said] Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”

          • Logic&Emotion

            Jesus said it himself. That is the point I’m making. Samuel was a witness as he guided Paul through his “transformation”

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            More accurately – Jesus was PURPORTED to have said it.

          • Logic&Emotion

            Please: I’ve seen your comments and your playing the Atheist game. To make that kind of statement during a conversation with someone else is what I think is called “Trolling” am I correct?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Please cite what I have said that would indicate I am an Atheist.

            “To make that kind of statement during a conversation with someone else is what I think is called “Trolling” am I correct?”

            No, you are incorrect. It is called: “correcting an inaccurate statement”.

          • Logic&Emotion

            Does the Label Atheist offend you? If so I apologize and will immediately reference the Bible to correct your word purported. If it is not offensive to you then your not relevant to this particular conversation. If you would like to define “Trolling” that would be ok as well.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Not at all. it’s not true, but your applying it does not offend me.

            I’ll ask again: Please cite what I have said that would indicate I am an Atheist.

            I provide this definition of “Troll” from Wikipedia:

            In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]

            My correcting you in your statement that Jesus actually said something to the more accurate that he was purported to say something does not fit the definition.

          • Logic&Emotion

            From following your comments (and I appreciate the definition) its clear you are in fact a Troll. Sorry that’s just the way I see it. You can’t logically correct a statement you clearly don’t have a resource to support your claim of “purported” Not a logical statement. As far as what you said, read the comment that you made. It’s easy to say you may be an Atheist because I rarely see a true Christian making remarks of that nature. And, from what I’ve been told by someone else it’s clear there that you have some anger issues and again from what is told to me is clear it would be wise if your a Christian to approach things from the standpoint of the Fruits of the spirit. I quote:
            22But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!
            24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there. 25Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives. 26Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another.
            One more quote from the Bible related to Paul is this:
            1But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest
            2and
            asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he
            found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound
            to Jerusalem.
            3Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven shone around him.
            4And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”
            5And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
            6But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.”
            7The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.
            8Saul
            rose from the ground, and although his eyes were opened, he saw
            nothing. So they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus.
            9And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank. (Notice what Jesus said. I AM JESUS. Hmm, Also notice the authority in which Jesus made the statement) Ok now that I’ve explained I have a question. Why are you so cruel to people. Do you not believe in the Holy Spirit?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “From following your comments (and I appreciate the definition) its clear you are in fact a Troll.”

            What specific comments have I made that fit the definition I provided?

            “you clearly don’t have a resource to support your claim of “purported””

            So are you saying you have irrefutable proof that Jesus said those words? If so, what would that proof be?

            “As far as what you said, read the comment that you made.”

            Since I don’t believe that I said anything that would lead to the conclusion that I am an Atheist, it would be nonsensical to suggest that reading what I wrote would provide clarity on the issue. You made the claim. The burden of proof is on you.

            “It’s easy to say you may be an Atheist because I rarely see a true Christian making remarks of that nature.”

            So anyone who is not a “true Christian” is an Atheist? By the way, how do you define “true Christian”?

            “And, from what I’ve been told by someone else it’s clear there that you have some anger issues”

            Interesting that you would state you have clarity on an issue based solely upon the comments of someone else. How is that reasonable?

            “if your a Christian”

            I am not.

            “Why are you so cruel to people”

            Please provide examples of my being “cruel” to people.

            “Do you not believe in the Holy Spirit?”

            How are you defining “Holy Spirit”?

          • Logic&Emotion

            It is time to come clean don’t you think. What is your World-View? What I have stated is observation, and evidence isn’t required for observation. Also, since your not a Christian as you stated, it is logical to evaluate what you say from a contextual point of view. The content to me really isn’t important. You’re asking for evidence that you already know about yourself. I feel there is no need to show further evidence of what you clearly know. You have read my previous statement, yet have not made a rhetorical statement of it other than to ask questions that you clearly know. So lets not waste time on subjective arguments. Lets get down to the nitty gritty so to speak. Don’t be fearful. What is your World-view. It should be easy to provide that answer. I’ll provide examples as I see fit based on future knowledge of who you are.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “It is time to come clean don’t you think”

            Absolutely. You have made several statements about me and I have asked you questions about those statements. You continue to fail to answer them. So, yes, it is time for you to either answer my questions about statements you made, or come clean that you are bearing false witness.

            “What I have stated is observation”

            What, specifically, have you observed? If you are going to level an accusation, you should be able to provide your basis. Otherwise, you are simply bearing false witness.

            “You’re asking for evidence that you already know about yourself.”

            You have stated things about me that I believe to be untrue. Again, if you are going to accuse me of something, as least be man enough to back up your accusations.

            I’d be more than happy to answer your question about my world view, as soon as you have answered my questions. Until then, I will not participate in a one-sided conversation where you assert you have no obligation to answer questions about the accusations you have made, yet feel it is completely reasonable to make further inquiries of me.

            “So lets not waste time on subjective arguments.”

            You say you don’t want to waste time on subjective arguments, yet you inquire about world views, which for each of us is subjective.

            You may want to reconsider the appropriateness of your avatar (unless it is meant as irony) as well as removing the word “logic” from your name.

          • Logic&Emotion

            See, now this is a prime example of what I observe about your character. You move away from a single question to apply an opinion about “logic” which is a very important part of any conversation, as well as emotion. Please do not infer you are in some way a superior intellect. It has no meaning in a comment section,, and certainly has no meaning to me. I inquire your world view to understand exactly who I am speaking with, and what motivates you when using “proof” as a word in which you already have an answer. If you want specific proof of something, or evidence of something, start by asking a particular question and I’ll respond. General questions are a waste of time. Be specific about one Topic you require evidence of, and I’ll respond with my perspective, and my evidence. Is that Fair?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “General questions are a waste of time.”

            Is not “what is your world view” a very general question?

            “Is that Fair?”

            “Fair” is a matter of perspective. What I believe to be reasonable is for you to answer questions about statements you have made before asking further questions of me. Do you not believe that is reasonable?

            As a reminder, here are my questions:

            So are you saying you have irrefutable proof that Jesus said those words? If so, what would that proof be?

            Please cite what I have said that would indicate I am an Atheist.

            So anyone who is not a “true Christian” is an Atheist? By the way, how do you define “true Christian”?

            Interesting that you would state you have clarity on an issue based solely upon the comments of someone else. How is that reasonable?

            How are you defining “Holy Spirit”?

            How does my world-view affect your ability to answer questions about statements you have made?

            When you have the respect to answer questions about statements/accusations you have made, then we can move on to additional questions you may have.

            “It’s fair to assume you are unwilling to provide that answer.”

            Since I clearly stated that I was willing to answer your question, why would it be fair for you to assume that I am unwilling to answer your question?

          • Logic&Emotion

            (smile) I can’t answer questions without knowledge of your World-view. It would be meaningless to do so. Also, it’s not necessary to quote me. I know what I have said.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            How does my world-view affect your ability to answer questions about statements you have made?

          • Logic&Emotion

            You can’t answer the question can you. As this discussion continues you will see how it effects everything in this conversation.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “You can’t answer the question can you.”

            Yes, I can.

          • Logic&Emotion

            To continue, please answer the question. Otherwise, don’t. In that case there is no further need for your comments merely because you ask questions. I could ask questions all day, but that is not conversation or debate, that is a debate tactic. Prove that its not. Prove that anything you have questioned is in fact a statement of truth, or that you have knowledge that my statements are untrue. Prove that you are knowledgeable to even address my statements. Prove that you exist. Prove that your not an automated question process. Prove anything as proof. That should keep you busy, or if not, then prove your not busy.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Every question I asked you related directly to statements you made. If you cannot, or are unwilling to answer them, then so be it. I will not, however, provide you with the courtesy of a response when you have done so for me.

            A common tactic of those who are adept at making statements and accusations, but completely inept when it comes to answering questions about the statements and accusations they make – divert. Unfortunate that you betray your avatar in that way.

          • Logic&Emotion

            Oh and evidence is not proof lol. Tell that to a Jury or Judge. It’s interesting how you can possibly judge me not knowing me, so prove that my avatar is a betrayal of anything. If your statement is true than your tactic is adept in that you have made statements and accusations and divert. You sir are a contradiction in terms. You will not provide me with a response because you know the implications if you did. Be truthful with yourself. Don’t make excuses for not answering a simple question.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Tell that to a Jury or Judge.”

            They don’t need to be told. They already know that. While evidence is certainly capable of proving something, evidence does not always provide proof.

            “It’s interesting how you can possibly judge me not knowing me”

            Strange that you would say that when you stated earlier: “And, from what I’ve been told by someone else it’s clear there that you have some anger issues” thus judging me based upon nothing more than an unidentified person’s comments. Talk about a contradiction!

            “You will not provide me with a response because you know the implications if you did.”

            What implications would those be? It seems that you are the one who is loath to answers questions about your statements and accusations – perhaps for the reason you stated?

            “Don’t make excuses for not answering a simple question.”

            I’m not making excuses. I am setting conditions.

            You have made accusations about me, as well as several statements, that I have asked you to provide backup for. You have not. Perhaps there are others who are so intent on sharing their views that you are able to distract from your lack of clarity by putting another question in front of them, but I am not.

            Get back to me when you are willing, and able, to provide answers regarding the accusations and statements you have made. Needless to say, I don’t expect that will happen.

          • Logic&Emotion

            You see I will make a point, counterpoint statement while asking you the same question again and again until you answer the question. It’s that simple really. So I ask the question again.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            When you have answered my previously asked questions about the statements and accusations you made, I’ll be happy to answer your question regarding my world view. Until you do so, there is no benefit in continuing to ask me to do so.

          • Logic&Emotion

            Simply put it is my choice to ask the question. I believe that you know why.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            No, I don’t know why. Perhaps you will explain it, but I suppose that is wishful thinking on my part as you have shown that you are loath to explain yourself.

          • Logic&Emotion

            You haven’t been paying attention. (I recall someone else saying that, hmm could that be you, or wait you’ll want to see evidence right)

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “(I recall someone else saying that, hmm could that be you,”

            I did say that…..as can be clearly seen. How is that relevant?

          • Logic&Emotion

            Your correct you did. You haven’t been paying attention = Relevance

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            In what way does “You haven’t been paying attention” equal Relevance? You stated that nothing I said is relevant. Now you are saying that something I said is does have relevance. Once again, you seemed confused regarding your own views.

          • Logic&Emotion

            What I seem is not a logical statement. Either I am confused, or I’m not. The relevance is that “you haven’t been paying attention”. That is just a mere fact. Again relevance is only applicable to my perspective when based on my comments. Your comments are relevant only as I see fit, that they would be. What I’m saying is quite clear. Because you don’t understand them is not my problem it is yours to resolve.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “What I seem is not a logical statement. Either I am confused, or I’m not. ”

            The source of your saying one thing, and then later saying the complete opposite is unknown. It could be confusion. It could be delusion. It could be forgetfulness. It could be lying. Therefore, to suggest that it is not logical for me to say that you seem confused, when that is one of several possibilities, is illogical.

            “What I’m saying is quite clear.”

            To you, perhaps.

            “Because you don’t understand them is not my problem it is yours to resolve.”

            If you can’t explain it, that is resolution enough for me.

          • Logic&Emotion

            That’s great!

          • Logic&Emotion

            Simply put it is my choice to ask the question. I believe that you know why.

          • Logic&Emotion

            By the way, do you set here all day? I mean really don’t you have a life lol.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Ahhhh…..the devolution to insults. So predictable.

          • Logic&Emotion

            Call it what you wish, there is circumstantial evidence from over two years of responses that would conclude my statement may in fact be accurate.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “there is circumstantial evidence from over two years of responses”

            What evidence would that be?

          • Logic&Emotion

            It is of course your choice not to respond at all, which was my initial response to your first comment.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            How are you coming on that irrefutable proof that Jesus said those words?

            Any progress on being able to cite what I have said that would indicate I am an Atheist?

            Have you figured out if you believe anyone who is not a “true Christian” is an Atheist or how you define “true Christian”?

            Are you able yet to explain how it is reasonable that you would state you have clarity on an issue based solely upon the comments of someone else. How is that reasonable?

            How are you coming on defining “Holy Spirit”?

            Any explanation yet on how my world-view affect your ability to answer questions about statements you have made?

            Any luck finding examples of my being cruel?

            Let me know.

          • Logic&Emotion

            Yes

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Glad to hear it. When you get done and are ready to provide the answers, let me know. Once you have, I am more than willing to share my world view with you.

          • Logic&Emotion

            Here is the deal.
            Relevance: The content of your comments is irrelevant to me.
            Relevance: The context within the comment will be relevant only from the standpoint of research on what you say, who you have said it to, and what the perspective of that person is in relation to that comment.
            Relevance: Time stamps on your comments. Relevant only in terms of the amount of time in your life that you spend on the Internet making comments.
            Relevance: Number of comments versus number of thumbs up. Only in the sense of how much time your spending in your life making comments.
            Relevance: Perspective, only from the standpoint of other people’s perception of you based on the context of your message, if it is relevant to the article or is introduced into an already existing discussion to determine if your comments meet the requirement and definition of Trolling as provided by your definition.

            All other material, questions, comments, value to me, personal opinions and other by you are irrelevant to me. Lets start here:
            “I’m not an atheist.
            I am neither a Muslim nor a “militant anti-Christian bigot”.
            I did not vote for Obama.”
            Quotes within my analysis so far indicating your claims.

            But wait, its going to get better. All material gathered will also be presented to others your commenting with. As you quote, “I never said Atheists don’t believe that there is no god” Please review the definition of Atheist that you presented to me.

            Quote “I would not consider a one-sided conversation which involves me answering your questions but you answering none of mine as conversing. Conversing requires an exchange of ideas and thoughts. I do, however, appreciate your conversing in your post above.” You may want to reconsider answering the question regarding your Worldview. Otherwise I simply will stick with my original statement. In other words I really don’t care what your opinion or opinions are. But, if you insist on continuing this conversation you contradict yourself once again based on this quote. But like you state; “Rather, we discuss that there is always a choice. The choices all have consequences, but there are still choices.”

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “The content of your comments is irrelevant to me.”

            Then why do you respond to me?

            “Time stamps on your comments. Relevant only in terms of the amount of time in your life that you spend on the Internet making comments.”

            How would the time stamps be an indication of how much time I spend on the internet? Time stamps indicate when I made the comment – not how long it took me to comment.

            “Number of comments versus number of thumbs up.”

            How would that be relevant?

            “All material gathered will also be presented to others your commenting with.”

            It would seem less time consuming to simply answer the questions I posed to you about the statements and accusations you made, but it is certainly your decision how you choose to spend your time. Seems an odd use, however, considering that you state that my comments have no relevance to you.

            In what way do I contradict myself?

            “In other words I really don’t care what your opinion or opinions are.”

            Then why do you continue to engage with me and ask me questions about my opinions?

            Again, you made statements, as well as accusations about me. I asked you to provide backup/reasoning for those statements. Rather than do so, you attempted to deflect by asking me another question. This is a technique that is used by people who are long on rhetoric but short on proof. While the tactic of deflecting from your inability or unwillingness to explain what you have said by attempting to draw the person away from that with another question may work on some people, it does not work on me.

            As I stated, I will not participate in a one-sided answering conversation. If, and when, you provide answers to my questions regarding the statements and accusations you made then I am more than happy to answer your question regarding my world view.

          • Logic&Emotion

            And yet you practice the one thing you state. “deflection and inability to explain a simple question.” As I stated before, I could care less if you participate. Your questions are irrelevant to me. The only relevance in your statements at all to me is what is relevant to me. If your happy to answer my question, it should not be that difficult. Often you have presented irrelevant statements as shown by those statements made in comments from the history of comments you have made. In other words the more comments you make to others, the closer I will come to understanding who you are, what your reasons are for the statements you make, etc. I have already outlined my intentions. You can always cease your comments as I requested at the beginning, or you can do as you choose. I will do as I choose based on your analogy of choice. I’m getting closer every day. Ex. There is consistency in your comments which may indicate favoritism toward the Muslim’s. Especially as an argument against Christianity as demonstrated through comments on numerous articles at a starting point of two years ago. As demonstrated, if your paying attention it may be obvious to you that I am doing as I said I would do.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “”deflection and inability to explain a simple question.””

            Please cite when I have practiced deflection. I have made my conditions quite clear as well as the rationale for them.

            I do not recall using the phrase “inability to explain a simple question” so I’m unclear why you include that in quotes which suggests that I have said that.

            “If your happy to answer my question, it should not be that difficult.”

            Right back at ya.

            “I’m getting closer every day.”

            I can hardly wait.

            “demonstrated through comments on numerous articles at a starting point of two years ago.”

            You’re quite obsessed with me. Have you considered seeking counseling for that?

          • Logic&Emotion

            Deflection if you understand the concept should be evident to you as to your behavioral responses and yet by asking the question it assumes you have no knowledge, or again you hide behind the question. More likely it is the answer without a direct answer. Just because you cannot recall what you said does not make it less so. You did say it. That is a fact.
            I wouldn’t call it obsessed. More of a learning experience. I like to understand how people tick. Your a great study in that, so I choose to continue at this point. Have you considered how useless you’re becoming in society based on the amount of time you spend wasting your talents, how beneficial or I should say non-beneficial your comments have been in the overall view of things. Have you considered what lasting meaning your comments will have. Do you realize that offending other people makes you seem arrogant, correction, makes you arrogant, and reduces your credibility on any given subject? No, I’m sure you don’t recognize that, but it is a fact. Don’t make claims you cannot support as again it reduces your credibility, and isn’t that what it is all about with you. Credibility? Spock said it best when he made the comment: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. I believe you really need to consider that thought. It applies to everything from gay rights, to religion, to philosophy, to science. That is one reason that belief systems in a majority hold so much weight and why worldviews are important. It is to fulfill the needs of the many. Is that concept foreign to you? Many concepts seem foreign to you. For instance the concept of your own Worldview. I’m not sure you know what it is, and if that is so, then you could not answer the question. Recognizing your support for Muslims is very interesting to me. It forms a foundation by which I can use that as the center, and expand out from there. I love the behavioral sciences, don’t you (smile)

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            If you can’t cite it, then you can’t., No worries.

            “I wouldn’t call it obsessed.”

            I’m not surprised. It would be unusual for a person who is obsessed to admit they are obsessed.

            “No, I’m sure you don’t recognize that, but it is a fact.”

            No, it is not fact. It is your opinion.

            “Don’t make claims you cannot support as again it reduces your credibility”

            Hmmmm…..for some reasons the words “pot”, “kettle”, “calling” and “black” popped in my head when I read that.

            “Many concepts seem foreign to you.”

            Such as?

            “For instance the concept of your own Worldview.”

            My worldview is not a concept. It actually exists..

            “recognizing your support for Muslims is very interesting to me.”

            What support are you referring to?

            “I love the behavioral sciences, don’t you (smile)”

            I do. It is my educational and experiential background. I also enjoy grammar and punctuation – something with which you do not seem particularly familiar.

          • Logic&Emotion

            In a comment I rarely pay attention to those things. Takes too much time, but Thanks for taking the time to tell me about it. LOL, your even a comic. The talents you have are overwhelming.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Takes too much time”

            It takes no more time than it does to not. Let’s start with something simple. The difference between “your” and “you’re” – you use both of them and typically backwards.

            “The talents you have are overwhelming.”

            Ahhh….that’s nice of you to say.

          • Logic&Emotion

            I’m told that often, I still slide back into the “your” camp. So you are valid in saying I’m not an English major. But that’s me, and there are times when in a comment, especially with emotion, the proper word spelling is not necessary since most people seem not interesting in the critique of language and most people understand what I or another is saying. If you prefer to use correct English go for it.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            it’s not a question of spelling. It’s a question of usage.

          • Logic&Emotion

            LOL, ok.

          • Logic&Emotion

            I have been more than kind in answering and giving evidence as your statements arrive, but I am going to take each one at a time. Ask the question one at a time. I would be more than happy to respond. I just gave you an example of your cruel comments. So what is question two. I only asked one question of you. It’s fair to assume you are unwilling to provide that answer.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “I just gave you an example of your cruel comments”

            Apparently I missed it. Would you please copy and paste it in a response.

          • Logic&Emotion

            Also, the word Purported would possibly mean you don’t believe in what the Bible said. If that is to be true its likely that you have entered this conversation as a non believer. Is that a fact. If so, Atheist as a label may apply to you in this particular instance. The Bible clearly indicates that Jesus, with authority did not purport to say it, but, that he actually and clearly stated it to Saul, the same being Paul, and Jesus said it with authority, why? Because Christ knew that once Paul understood what he was doing, he would be one of the most important Apostle’s of Christ’s ministry in the entire Bible. Paul was a Roman citizen, he would be perfect to carry the message of Christ to the new church’s and to the Gentiles (those other than Jews) of Jesus. Funny how Jesus selects people that seemingly would be the last person you would ever think that God would choose. So, I hope that you can see that the word ‘purported’ isn’t at all what the Gospels infer. It is fact according to Acts: 9.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “If so, Atheist as a label may apply to you in this particular instance.”

            An Atheist is a person “who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.” I believe God exists. I am not an Atheist.

            “So, I hope that you can see that the word ‘purported’ isn’t at all what the Gospels infer. ”

            Any quote attributed to any person for which there is not irrefutable proof, is purported. It is second-hand. It is alleged.

            “you don’t believe in what the Bible said.”

            There are many, many things in the Bible. The Bible is not something one believes in. One chooses to believe in the contents of the Bible. The Bible doesn’t say anything. “Bible” is the name of the book that contains scriptures which were written by man and chosen for inclusion, from many that existed, by man.

          • Logic&Emotion

            As with all things, the Bible is a source. No matter what you imply about the Bible, it is the source for knowledge, just as you could equally say the writing’s of Einstein is a source used in science. I would be glad to provide you the history of the Bible, and subsequent writing such as that of Josephous and other analysis on scrolls such as the history of the Dead Sea Scrolls and again a number of documented information from the study of Scholars, Theologians, Philosophers, Archeology and a great deal of other specialties that directly relate to the documentation and history of the beginnings of how the Bible came to be at all. Your argument is again somewhat circular as observed by a constant insistence on the word purported. I know the meaning of the word, but then again I provided the evidence representative of what the Bible states concerning Paul’s beginnings, and Christ. It doesn’t necessarily mean you have to approve of the evidence presented, but the evidence is consistent with my initial statement, and purported is not at all accurate according to the Bible as presented. Resources are resources, and they are tools for our understanding. If it were not for these “People” who have spent their whole careers on the understanding of the Bible, along with other information an example again being the Dead Sea Scrolls, and other ancient findings of history to support the authenticity of the Bible. Now back to my original question: What World-view do you ascribe to. Are you in fear of answering that single question?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Are you in fear of answering that single question?”

            Not at all. See other response.

          • Logic&Emotion

            I addressed cruelty. Now I am waiting on your answer “your World-view”

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            How, specifically, did you address “cruelty”?

          • Logic&Emotion

            I didn’t, others that responded to your comments did.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “I didn’t”

            From an earlier post from you: “I just gave you an example of your cruel comments.”

            So which is it? Did you or didn’t you? And if you did, please point it out to me so I can see what you believe are examples of comments I made that you believe are “cruel”.

          • Logic&Emotion

            You read it. I’ll let the others be the judge. Actually others have already judged. That is how I drew the conclusion to begin with.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            So you aren’t able to provide examples of my being cruel and you can’t determine if you what you said the first time was true, or what you said the second time, which was the opposite of the first, was true. Got it.

          • Logic&Emotion

            As I stated, I’ll let others be the Judge. As I present the data I’m sure I’ll get input. You’ll be able to get consensus right before your very eyes. Is that examples? I suppose you’ll have to wait and see (smile)

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Why let others judge? If you have (something you seem confused about given your statement that you have, followed by your statement that you haven’t) provided examples of comments I have made that are cruel, why not just cut and paste them in a reply?

            I think we both know the answer to that last question.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “I would be glad to provide you the history of the Bible”

            I am familiar, but thanks for the offer.

            Evidence is not proof. It is evidence. Thus, purported is apt.

          • Logic&Emotion

            Prove that your familiar. I don’t believe that statement at this point.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            What would be the basis for your disbelief?

          • Logic&Emotion

            You’ve not shown evidence of such.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Then you haven’t been paying much attention.

          • Logic&Emotion

            You certainly DON’T know much about the Label ‘Atheist’ other than a Webster dictionary statement. Atheism certainly has an agenda, has varied degrees of spirituality, and different levels of Atheism based on the individual. I think a great book for you to read to better understand what I’m speaking about comes from Vox Day called the irrational Atheist. It’s a fantastic book, best seller, and you can get it in PDF form if you google for it. Another resource for your observation, if in fact you take the time to do any research at all.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Atheism certainly has an agenda”

            What would that be?

            “has varied degrees of spirituality”

            What levels of spirituality, and different levels, does Atheism have?

            “I think a great book for you to read to better understand what I’m speaking about”

            Why bother to read a book when I have you to explain what you said?

          • Logic&Emotion

            You don’t have me to explain. I choose to explain as I choose fit. Books are available for knowledge and power as you have stated in past comments (I have made copies of many of your quotes in comments to remind you of what you say and evidence of your contradiction in terms.) Please continue.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “You don’t have me to explain.”

            You have made it clear that you are not prone to providing explanations for the things you say, so no surprise there.

            “I have made copies of many of your quotes in comments to remind you of what you say and evidence of your contradiction in terms.”

            I so look forward to your sharing them.

          • Logic&Emotion

            I choose not to explain without knowledge of your worldview, however I am in the process of eliminating what you state is not your worldview for a possible list of Worldviews. I find it interesting.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “I choose not to explain without knowledge of your worldview”

            Why would your having knowledge of my world view impact your explaining your statements? Further, why would it have any impact on your providing evidence of my contradiction in terms? Contradictions, like your saying that you DID provide an example of my comments being cruel, but then later saying that you DIDN’T, exist, regardless of one’s world view.

            Certainly appears that is nothing more than an excuse, which in turn provides insight into your character.

          • Logic&Emotion

            I’ll answer all your questions if and when you provide a picture of your worldview. Never mind, I’ll find out for myself. But if you want to withhold that information, than justly I will withhold any answer to your question. That possibly could mean that it’s likely that I really don’t care what you think. No, I think that is a fact, I don’t care what you think. Could you show me evidence that I do care what you think?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Never mind, I’ll find out for myself.”

            Then there is no reason for you to continue to fail to answer my questions regarding the statements and accusations you made BEFORE asking my world view, is there?

            “than justly I will withhold any answer to your question.”

            You are certainly free to use any justification you are to for not answering questions about the statements and accusations you made against me. There is not, however, in my opinion, any justification for expecting that I would answer an additional question from you when you are unwilling to answer previously asked questions about the statements and accusations you made.

            “That possibly could mean that it’s likely that I really don’t care what you think. No, I think that is a fact, I don’t care what you think.”

            Then why do you continue to engage and ask questions of me?

            “Could you show me evidence that I do care what you think?”

            See my response immediately above.

          • lynn

            What are you going to do with 2nd Peter 3:15 – 17 ??

          • John

            Lynn this would be the perfect scripture to support the credibility of Paul if it was written by the real Apostle Peter. Do you believe it was? Most Biblical Scholars do not, even the conservative ones. There is no trace of it until after A.D. 200.

        • Reason2012

          So that’s your solution? Throw out parts of the Bible you do not like? Hardly a new concept, John – there are always those who attack God’s Word for various reasons, claiming we can ignore this or that.

          If a person admits they rob people, it’s not “judging” them to do them and favor by pointing out when the law catches up with them they’ll go to jail. Likewise pointing out what God/Jesus says about those who sin and refuse to stop is also not judging, it’s pointing out the result when they face God. It’s doing them a favor, giving them a chance to come to the truth before it’s too late.

          It would be evil to sit by and do nothing allowing them to believe they’ll be fine.

          Pointing out this fact is not a “weapon” – it’s warning them of what will happen when they face God. And again, those who end up in_hell will realize the ones who cared for them are those who risked their hatred to warn them of the truth, and those who hated them are those who convinced them to keep sinning and not worry about it in spite of knowing what God said about it.

          I would not use the beliefs that “God’s Word can be ignored” as a weapon against those who preach the whole counsel of God.

          The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

          Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

          And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

          And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

          And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

          Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

          Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

          Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

          Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

          Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.”

          1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

          1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

          2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

          Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

          And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

          Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

          Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband. And only two people off opposite gender can become “one flesh” by_intercourse.

          1 Corinthians 6:9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind [sodomites],”

          1 Timothy 1:10 “For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [sodomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

          Jude 1:7 “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

          Thinking those false things for yourself is one thing, but I would stop trying to convince others they can sin all they want and have homosexual relations all they want – their_blood would be on your hands.

          • Paul Hiett

            1 Corinthians also tells you, a woman, to keep your mouth shut in church.

            Do you agree with this since it’s in the Bible?

          • Reason2012

            Do you agree all of the above that’s all over the Bible? It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

            Answer that first and I’ll answer your question.

          • Paul Hiett

            My problem with what you posted is that there are also commandments in those sections of the Bible that you choose to ignore. Quoting Leviticus as proof of God not tolerating homosexuality means nothing since you choose not to follow other parts of Leviticus, just as you choose not to follow parts of 1 Corinthians.

            Why is one part of a book considered relevant, but the very next line is not?

          • Reason2012

            You didn’t answer the question. Do you agree with it since it’s in the Bible all over the place, or is it all a lie? It’s not just in Leviticus. And I DO follow 1 Corinthians: women should not be teachers in the church. So you don’t believe that either?

          • Paul Hiett

            I can’t agree with it since you pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow. Leviticus also says not to work on the Sabbath, but I doubt you follow that “law”. It also says not to trim the beard, or cut the hair at the sides. I would gather those are also ignored.

            So, how can I possibly agree with the cherry picking of what is and what is not tolerated by your deity when even Christians themselves can’t agree on it?

          • Reason2012

            What you believe should have nothing to do with what OTHERS do – it should be what God says. So again, do you believe it or not? It’s an easy question and one you keep avoiding.

          • Paul Hiett

            Since there is no clear cut definition of which laws are real and which are to be ignored, I can’t find any reason to believe in any of them.

          • Reason2012

            Sure it’s clear cut: dietary ordinances that were just for the Jewish people were done away with by Christ. Not to mention the extra “help” of things that were clearly NOT done away with were repeated in the New Testament.

            Yes, we can always find an excuse to claim God”s Word is a lie as if we’ll be able to say to God when we face Him “Well how was I supposed to know? How can we believe any of it?” – it won’t work. No excuse will work – we know all we need to know and just prove how wicked we all our (myself included) when we continue to just find reasons to ignore God and kid ourselves thinking it will be ok.

            Please think again. God will slam false religions – but using them as an excuse to reject Him does not absolve us of our guilt before Him.

            Take care.

          • Paul Hiett

            See, this is the problem you have. You do cherry pick what you approve of and what you don’t approve of based on the things you like in this life. The laws of Leviticus are not obsolete, according to the Bible. Or, if they are, they are ALL obsolete, or none of them are.

            You don’t get to pick and choose which laws you like based on what you enjoy doing in your private life.

          • Reason2012

            Hello. While there are some who cherry pick, I’m not one of them – to the best of my ability I follow God’s Word. Perfect? Hardly. But teaching or even thinking that some things are ok to ignore when God made it clear we do not? No.

            And no, it’s the dietary and ceremonial laws that are done away with, not lustful acts. And these things are also repeated in the New Testament.

            If you are condemning others for cherry picking, why are you cherry picking and pretending male on male_sex is ok? Doesn’t make sense for you to do that which you condemn. So why do you cherry pick and pretend we can ignore that male on male_sex is a sin?

            And Jesus, Paul, Peter and Jude REPEATED about how homosexuality is wrong and/or that it’s about a man and a woman, not two men, so we know that still stands.

            Hope this helps.

          • neutralibe

            We do not live under Mosaic Law. We’re in the Church Age (Grace).

            Living under the law means you will die under the law and that you don’t believe Christ was born and died on the Cross for your sins.

          • John

            I know it seems like it is written throughout Bible, but Moses and Paul are the only 2 writters to state that homosexuality is a sin. They just wrote a lot of the Bible. You did not reference Judges 19. If you did you would be telling us that gay men raped a woman to death (never read in the newspaper that happening). Also I am surprised you referenced Ezekiel 16:49-50, because Ezekiel tells us Sodom was destroyed because they were proud, lazy while the poor and needy suffered. We all pick and choose what we believe in the Bible to be true unless you do believe women are second class human beings or that slavery is okay.

          • Reason2012

            Now it’s “Moses is a liar” and “Paul is a liar”? What about Timothy? What about Jude? What about Jeremiah? That’s five liars who wrote the Bible? Should I keep going?

            So either you are the liar or the prophets are liars – and you are judging those prophets as liars.

            Even Jesus addressed someone not believing Moses:

            John 5:45-47 “Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?”

            Just wanted to make sure others could see where you’re coming from and how you’re speaking against the truth of God/Christ while falsely claiming to be for it. Take care.

          • John

            You make a lot of references to lying. I never called any of the writers liars. They were human beings and may have believed that is what God was telling them. Again I don’t believe they were “liars” but I do not believe women are second class human beings, slavery is okay, and homosexuality is a sin.

          • Reason2012

            So you’re claiming they’re all “wrong” – you don’t believe what they said is true. YOu elevate your opinion above theirs – coupled with your clear lack of understanding of what they’ve conveyed to us.

            But again, even Jesus rebuked those who also did not believe Moses. So again, you claim to follow God but claim Moses is wrong, Paul is wrong. Jeremiah is wrong, Peter is wrong, Jude is wrong and more. Sorry, that’s anti-God teaching – you’re elevating your own opinion over God’s.

            Being commanded not to preach is not being a “second class citizen” – that’s your false claim injected onto God’s Word.

            Ephesians 5:25 “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;”

            The Bible does not condone kidnapping others and forcing them to be slaves – it condemns that as a capital crime, which shows it is YOU that does not understand God’s Word and then use your lack of understanding to claim the prophets are wrong and you are right.

            The slavery in the Bible was not based on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. Or even criminals became slaves to repay their debts. Sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

            In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century..

            Exodus 21.16 “And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.”

            That alone proves the slavery of kidnapping others you are referring to CANNOT be what the Bible is condoning as that is condemned by death.

            Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers.

            1 Timothy 1.8 “But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

            It’s complete false that the Bible “condones” slavery the way we experienced it in the past few centuries.

            Your need to claim the Bible is wrong stems from the false claims you’ve been fed but have not checked up on for yourself. I would think again rather than teaching all the prophets are wrong and you are right.

            Take care.

          • neutralibe

            Then that means you think God is a liar.

            You’re also an idolator – you’ve created a false image of God and Jesus Christ in your mind and they are the ones you “worship”.

            You worship something that’s not real – a false image.

          • Reason2012

            No, Moses, Jeremiah, Paul, Peter, Jude, Ezekiel – they all wrote about it. I’ve already pointed it out and you continue to claim only two wrote about it. Why is that?

            Sodom was not their only sin, but to pretend Jude did not mention it is false.

            Yes, Ezekiel pointed out they had other sins as well – it doesn’t mean male on male_sex was not one of them.

            No, we don’t ALL pick and choose – you’ve shown nothing that we ALL “pick and choose” and only uses that as an excuse to “pick and choose” yourself, which is all you are doing. So yes, some pick and choose, and you admit you’re one of them.

            Why condemn picking and choosing when you’re picking and choosing?

            But again, even Jesus rebuked those who also did not believe Moses. So again, you claim to follow God but claim Moses is wrong, Paul is wrong. Jeremiah is wrong, Peter is wrong, Jude is wrong and more. Sorry, that’s anti-God teaching – you’re elevating your own opinion over God’s.

            Being commanded not to preach is not being a “second class citizen” – that’s your false claim injected onto God’s Word.

            Ephesians 5:25 “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;”

            The Bible does not condone kidnapping others and forcing them to be slaves – it condemns that as a capital crime, which shows it is YOU that does not understand God’s Word and then use your lack of understanding to claim the prophets are wrong and you are right.

            The slavery in the Bible was not based on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. Or even criminals became slaves to repay their debts. Sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

            In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century..

            Exodus 21.16 “And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.”

            That alone proves the slavery of kidnapping others you are referring to CANNOT be what the Bible is condoning as that is condemned by death.

            Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers.

            1 Timothy 1.8 “But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

            It’s complete false that the Bible “condones” slavery the way we experienced it in the past few centuries.

            Your need to claim the Bible is wrong stems from the false claims you’ve been fed but have not checked up on for yourself. I would think again rather than teaching all the prophets are wrong and you are right.

            Take care.

          • John

            Moses and Paul were the only two writers to say that homosexuality was a sin. The other writers referred to Sodom in their writings. Sodom was about rape and murder. Why do we know this, because Judges 19 which you have yet to comment on is a VERY similar story and of course we learn from this story that these wicked men raped a WOMAN to death. I am not condemning people who pick and choose as most if not all of us do so. Do you make your wife cover her head when praying to show her respect for you? Remember the angles are watching. The Bible is not perfect and to believe it is at the expense of the innocent is wrong. You can be a CHRISTian and love Jesus without worshipping the Bible.

          • Reason2012

            Let’s deal with your false claim only Moses and Paul condemned homosexuality before you go off on tangents tryiung to say “well you don’t obey this so this means the world can disobey whatever they want” logic.

            The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

            Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

            And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

            And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

            And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

            Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

            Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

            Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

            Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

            Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.”

            1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

            1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

            2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

            Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

            And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

            Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

            Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband. And only two people off opposite gender can become “one flesh” by_intercourse.

            1 Corinthians 6:9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind [sodomites],”

            1 Timothy 1:10 “For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [sodomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

            Jude 1:7 “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

            So you admit it’s more than Moses and Paul condemning male on male_sex?

          • John

            Moses wrote Genesis, Leviticus and Deuteronomy which you referrenced. Paul wrote Leviticus and Timothy. The other books you referrenced referred to Sodom. Please comment on Judges 19 before we can discuss scriptures related to Sodom.

          • Reason2012

            Paul wrote Leviticus? I think you’re confused.

            You ignore Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Jude, Peter.

            But it doesn’t matter – as soon as you start claiming people God used to write His Word are “wrong” you’ve gone off and made your own false religion. As soon as you say “Moses is wrong” you’ve elevated yourself above God and His Word.

            But here’s the thing: it’s God you’ll have to convince Moses was wrong and hence the Bible is wrong, not me, not anyone else. If i was to agree with you, it would just make us BOTH wrong before God.

            Bottom line is:

            (1) the Bible condemns homosexuality as an abomination,

            (2) you admit it does,

            (3) your own rebuttle is “it’s wrong” or “well not all women cover their head when they pray, so that means sexual deviancy is ok as well”

            It doesn’t matter how many people you convince Moses is wrong – God is the one you will need to convince – and you have only to ask yourself how you think that will go.

            Matthew 19:4-5 “And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

            Mark 10:6-8 “[Jesus said] But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.”

            SO if you’re going to promote homosexual marriage, you better say Mark was wrong, Matthew was wrong and Jesus was wrong.

            And then God is the One you’ll have to convince you were right.

            Take care.

          • John

            I was thinking the book of Corinthians when I was writing Leviticus – my bad. But Leviticus was written by Moses and therefore still just the two men. Until you comment on Judges 19 I cannot discuss scriptures referencing Sodom. Also I don’t have to convince God, God knows the truth. You see Jesus is perfect, the Bible is not. I worship Jesus, I do not need to worship the Bible (Bible Idolatry).

          • Reason2012

            There’s no point discussing the Bible with you as you’ll just claiming an yet another prophet was “wrong”, so clearly there’s no point in you pretending you’ll listen to anything the Bible says. It’s God you’ll have to convince, not me.

            Yes, God knows the truth about scripture: He told us:

            John 10:35 “If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;”

            According to you it’s always been broken.

            Matthew 5:18 “[Jesus said] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot [smallest part of a single letter] or one tittle [the ‘dotting of an i’ for instance] shall in no wise pass from the law [the Scriptures], till all be fulfilled.”

            According to you, entire books are done away with b/c they were wrong. Guess Jesus needs to talk to you about God’s truth.

            I believe God. You don’t. I never said worship the Bible – to not worship it does not mean to throw it out (self-idolatry). If God said something, we need to heed it. You don’t. it’s that simple. If you think you’re going to convince God His Word was broken, I don’t know what to tell you. But at least others can see your stance and where you’re coming from when you claim “love” and asking OTHERS if they’re goats when you’re the one throwing out God’s Word and teaching others to do likewise.

            Take care.

          • neutralibe

            You worship a false image you’ve created in your mind. You are the idolater.

          • Reason2012

            And let’s address you not believing what Moses wrote – claiming he was wrong. Jesus addressed this:

            John 5:45-47 “Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?”

            If you do not believe Moses – say he’s “wrong” about things, then you only prove you have no interest in God, but instead are making a false god by changing and throwing out what you do not like, so your “opinion” that God accepts male on male_sex is completely vain when you’re not following God to begin with but are attacking His Word.

        • New Centurion

          John, first off, while “your” bible may differentiate between the gospels and the epistles, the bible of orthodox Christianty does not: it’s all the word of God. Secondly, Jesus did not write the gospels. Third, read the entirety of the NT in its proper context. Last, what Paul wrote down in the epistles was received from the Holy Spirit and is perfectly in tune with what Jesus taught. God the Holy Spirit does not contradict God the Son.

          • John

            Jesus did not write the Gospels but the Gospels were written about the life and message of Jesus. What is the proper context to read the NT? Your way, or my way, or another human’s way? None of us are God so all we have is what is written and what we are guided by the Holy Spirit. None of us will know who is right until we meet Jesus one day. I will look forward for that day.

          • New Centurion

            You read and interpret scripture in its proper historical and grammatical context, with the illumination of the Holy Spirit and lastly we can be guided by the doctrines held by the church as a whole for the last 2000 years. Having said that, if you hold to a belief that something is not a sin when the bible clearly states it is sin, you are in rebellion against God, you deny the truth of His word and you do not have the Holy Spirit. Be sure that you are truly reconciled to God before your anticipated meeting with Jesus Christ, because on that day we will all kneel before Him as our King and the sight of Him will fill billions with dread.

    • Reason2012

      You claim below that Moses, Paul, Jeremiah, Jude and more are all liars – so to claim to be speaking for Christ/God is false. Just warning others before they are fooled by your claims of “love” and “commandments”.

    • Larry Mccoy

      well one thing you have wrong being a homosexaul is a choice if God detest it He’s not going to make you that way. you are not born that way there is no scientific proof of someone being born that way. that’s like me saying i’am a bank robber but it’s ok God made me that way.by saying that you are saying God makes mistakes . and dont recite scripture to feel proud or be superior to others . i recite to show that we all fall short rather you are a homosexual,drunkard,murderer,slanderer,etc leviticus 18:22 romans 1:24-32 1 corinthians 6:9-10

    • http://www.imagineitincorporatedng.com/ Tessa

      They did not choose?

      Man always has a choose. You cannot do everything that you feel. You do what is right. That is responsibility.

  • MattFCharlestonSC

    It’s a gay show. If you don’t want to see a gay show then don’t watch it.

    • Gary

      It should not on TV.

      • MattFCharlestonSC

        Get ready for it Gary, because we’re not going away any time soon. Do you get upset when a tv show airs a first kiss episode between a boy and a girl? You have just as much right to impose your religion on TV as you have to impose religion on me.

        • Gary

          But you are going away soon.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            Yea, I’ll keep waiting patiently for the 1 billionth predicted apocalypse. Until then, though, you should butt out.

          • Gary

            I am not going to “butt out”. Do you mean to use a homosexual pun?

          • Paul Hiett

            Your homophobia is getting worse, Gary. Maybe you should just stay in your home and never leave?

          • Gary

            No, I won’t do that.

          • Paul Hiett

            Well, then maybe you should just accept that the world is full of people who do things you won’t agree with.

          • Gary

            I know that. But they should understand that I will oppose them.

          • Paul Hiett

            That’s fine, hate them all you want…tell them how much you hate them. But, you don’t get to change how they live. You don’t get to force anyone to live based upon your religious ideology.

          • Gary

            Don’t be too sure.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            Nobody is afraid of you, Gary. Old men don’t scare me.

          • Gary

            It is not my intention to scare you. Not now anyway.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            🙂 If you do something horrible that lands you in prison, will you put me on your visitation list? I’ll bring you some cigarettes for currency in the big house.

          • Gary

            Sure.

          • Better AndBetter

            Poor Gary… the world just refuses to live as he demands.

            Awwwwww….

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            It’s more like a Christian pun, since you’re an @**hole.

          • Gary

            LOL. One of my goals in life is to be hated by queers.

          • MattFCharlestonSC

            I don’t hate you Gary — As you’ve pointed out, I love @**holes!

          • Gary

            You love a different kind of @**hole.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            What kind of @**hole do you love, Gary?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Oh Gary, we don’t hate you. Pity you? Yes. Hate? No.

          • Gary

            I’ll keep trying.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Try all you like, but hate is not something I engage in. I will, and have, prayed for you.

          • Gary

            Who you praying to? Aren’t you a queer?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            To God, silly.

          • Gary

            I know you are not praying to the God of the Bible, so what god are you praying to?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            God, Gary. I don’t believe there is more than one.

          • Gary

            Why would you pray to the God of the Bible when He wants nothing to do with you? You don’t expect Him to answer your prayers, do you?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            I don’t pray to the God of the Bible, Gary.

            God answers my prayers on a daily basis. Just today he answered my prayer to continue to keep my heart open to you even though you wish death upon me and justify that wish by using a twisted interpretation of what God is.

          • Gary

            If you don’t pray to the God of the Bible, (the God of Abraham, Moses, David, Daniel, Elijah, Peter, John the Baptist, Paul, etc.) then I again ask what is the name of your god?

          • MisterPine

            I suspect Gary may be a troll who is trying to make Christians look bad. If not then he should watch it because that is what he’s doing.

          • Gary

            Are you saying that Christians should support homosexuality and ssm? What proof can you offer that Christians should do that?

          • MisterPine

            Scientific proof. http://www.apa.org

          • Gary

            The apa does not define morality. Only God defines morality and marriage. And God has ruled homosexuals out of both.

          • MisterPine

            Christian fundamentalists do not define morality. And you are not God. So maybe you should stop pretending to be.

          • Barb

            According to the Bible, Gary is absolutely right! John 9:31: We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.

      • Paul Hiett

        Then change the channel.

  • Better AndBetter
  • Reason2012

    There’s no such thing as homosexuals – only people who currently enjoy homosexuality. And adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

    And this is what God says about sin and specifically homosexuality:

    Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

    Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

    Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

    The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

    Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

    God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

    Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

    Genesis 19:7-9 “And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. (8) Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. (9) And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.”

    Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

    Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    • Paul Hiett

      Here’s a simple test…do you find members of the same gender at all to be arousing to you?

    • thoughtsfromflorida

      How can there be homosexuality if there are no homosexuals?

    • Better AndBetter

      Another one who loves to wail and gnash teeth at all his losses.

      How sad.

  • thoughtsfromflorida

    Isn’t it great that people have the ability to change channels? Wow. Modern technology.

    • Paul Hiett

      I can just see Gary writhing on the floor of his living room wailing and gnashing his teeth at the site on his tv, his remote but inches from his grasp, unable to turn away from the onslaught of immorality on his tv.

  • Logic&Emotion

    Here is an indication from Darwin explaining the difference between choice, culture, and built in characteristics. First indicator: I will also post the latest in the study’s of ‘Are People Born Gay’. An intriguing study by numerous scientist’s. This has no bearing at all on my belief in Christ because I believe solely in his principles, but its a worthy cause to see scientific views from Christian scientist’s as well as secular scientists. Ex: Neo Darwinian evolution. Nevertheless, there is some
    clear evidence that natural selection (and sexual selection) does act upon
    populations and has acted on our own species to produce racial differences.41
    Natural selection postulates that those genetic mutations that favor
    survival and reproduction will be selected, whereas those that compromise
    survival and reproduction will be eliminated. Obviously, a gene or series of
    genes that produce non-reproducing individuals (i.e., those who express pure
    homosexual behavior) will be rapidly eliminated from any population. So, it
    would be expected that any “gay gene” would be efficiently removed from a
    population. However, it is possible that a gene favoring male
    homosexuality could “hide” within the human genome if it were located on the
    X-chromosome, where it could be carried by reproducing females, and not be
    subject to negative selection by non-reproducing males. In order to survive, the gene(s) would be expected to be
    associated with higher reproductive capacity in women who carry it
    (compensating for the generation of non-reproducing males). I can’t imagine
    a genetic scenario in which female homosexuality would ever persist within a
    population.

    • Paul Hiett

      There are, to date, over 1500 species of animals (and yes, humans are
      animals and thus are included in that number) that have been observed
      to engage in homosexuality. Whether they engage in same-sex
      coitus for pleasure, or taking on a mate for life, the behavior has been
      well documented, and as a result cannot be argued that the behavior
      does not exist in nature.

      Both
      male and females of these species engage. There are birds for
      examples, females included, that will take on a same-sex mate for life.
      They do, however, copulate with the opposite gender when reproduction is
      required, but the two mates raise the off spring.

      Chimps, monkeys, lions, whales, dolphins…just some of the animal species that actually engage in same-sex coitus for pleasure.

      This behavior has been around for much longer than we can go back in
      recorded time, and if so observed in so many species, including humans,
      how can we possibly come to any conclusion other than it’s normal?

  • Truthhurts24

    Isaiah 5:20-23
    Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil, that put darkness for light and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
    Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
    Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink!
    Woe unto them which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
    Repent America or Face Judgement

    • Paul Hiett

      Tell me…what would you do if Sharia Law was implemented here?

      • Truthhurts24

        I will stand against it even if I get killed by Muslims there is no way I will live be a slave to Islam. What would you do?

        • Paul Hiett

          Now you know how it feels to be on the other side of argument.

          • Truthhurts24

            So you will want to die if this country became all Christian?

          • Paul Hiett

            I would fight against any religion in which its followers attempted to install it as law.

          • Truthhurts24

            Whether you want to believe The Bible is false and hogwash doesn’t change the fact that everyone on earth is already going to be judged by The Bible without any governments approval. Each person on this earth will be judged by Christ when they die so Christians do not need to put any law into place like the Muslims are trying to do with Sharia Law because Gods law is apart of the earth just like gravity.

          • Paul Hiett

            You’re more than welcome to believe that, just as I am more than welcome to completely ignore such claims. Also, claiming that we’re going to be judged by the Bible as “fact” would indicate you don’t quite know what a “fact” is.

          • Gary

            Hiett is deeply disturbed by heterosexual-only marriage laws. He feels those laws mean there is a Christian theocracy in America.

          • Paul Hiett

            There is certainly an attempt at a theocracy, wouldn’t you agree, Gary?

          • Gary

            No, I would not agree. Having laws that are moral does not mean there is a theocracy.

          • Paul Hiett

            Are you attempting to instill laws based on your religions teachings?

          • Gary

            I am trying to keep a law that has been in place for over 200 years in this country. Are you saying that there has been a theocracy since the US was founded?

          • Paul Hiett

            Are you or are you not wanting to either implement laws, or keep laws the same based on your particular version of religion?

          • Gary

            I am trying to keep heterosexual only marriage as the only legal kind. And that is in accord with Christianity.

          • Paul Hiett

            And that, my dear Gary, is part of a theocracy.

          • Gary

            Then the USA has always been a theocracy. But anyone with half a brain knows that the US has never been a theocracy. Only half wits like you would think it has been.

          • Paul Hiett

            Which is why we continue to fight against it’s implementation. Citing a single religion as to why or why not a law should be legal is nothing more than a blatant attempt at a theocracy, which is why you continue to see such unjust laws constantly struck down.

            Christianity is finally being knocked down a peg or two, and you can’t stand it. You simply hate that you’re the same as everyone else, with no more, and no less, protection than everyone else.

          • Gary

            You are a liar, a fool and a bigot. Piss on you. You are nothing more than a slimy little queer who hates God, and Christians. Since you are trying to eliminate marriage, you should also be trying to eliminate the laws against murder and theft, since those are also found in the Bible.

          • Paul Hiett

            You sure do have some pent up anger. I feel sorry for you.

            One would think a Christian, awash in the love of Jesus, wouldn’t be so angry all the time.

          • Gary

            I am angry. But I know that God is going to put you in Hell, and that gives me comfort. I know justice will be done.

          • Truthhurts24

            That is definitely liberal logic very weird

          • Paul Hiett

            Gary wants to execute people for being gay, but I’m the one with weird logic?

            Really?

          • Truthhurts24

            I know why he feels that way I hate that lifestyle also and people who enjoy it because that is an abomination and it is destroying the morals of society its not normal at all but I don’t wish death on anybody and Christ came to set the captives free. Sodomites are under very heavy demonic influence and need deliverance big time I have heard of gays and lesbians being delivered from their bondage its possible with Christ but too many love their sin and will never repent.

  • Gary

    Do the parents of these teenagers not care that their children are behaving like perverts?

    • thoughtsfromflorida

      Do your parents know you think people should be executed for being gay?

      • Gary

        We all believe that God intends for people who engage in homos-x to be executed.

        • Paul Hiett

          I’m pretty sure most of the people posting on here would disagree with you.

          • Gary

            Probably. But God said what he said.

  • Gary

    This TV show is a symptom of a morally bankrupt society. Expect more of this. Also expect the problems that come with moral bankruptcy. It isn’t the liberation that some people think it is.

    • Paul Hiett

      Feel free to leave this country any time you want.

      • Gary

        When the time is right.

  • Jim Smith

    Only mentally ill faq-gots would produce something so disgusting and demented.