American Baptist College Defends Invite to Lesbian Speaker, Says Christians Make ‘Idol’ of Bible

ABCNASHVILLE — An American Baptist College is defending its invitation to an openly lesbian United Church of Christ minister, asserting that Christians are making an “idol” of the Bible.

“It’s sad that people use religion and idolatry of the Bible to demoralize same-gender-loving people,” American Baptist College President Forrest Harris told The Tennessean on Wednesday.

The publication then asked that he clarify his use of the phrase “idolatry of the Bible.”

“When people say [the Bible] is synonymous with God and the truth,” Harris responded. “We can’t be guided and dictated by a first-century world view.”

The college had invited Yvette Flunder, a bishop at the City of Refuge United Church of Christ in Oakland, Calif., to speak at its Garnett-Nabrit lecture series next week, which focuses on Christian leadership. The theme is “Ministry in Motion: Living Faith, Doing Justice.”

Flunder its expected to appear at next Tuesday’s evening worship service, and then again at the Nannie Helen Burroughs luncheon, where she is expected to talk about her work to combat HIV and AIDS. The United Church of Christ leader is “married” to her partner Shirley Miller.

But after word of the invitation reached other pastors in Nashville, several denounced college administrators for their actions. Randy G. Vaughn of Mt. Sinai Baptist Church told local television station KMBT that he and other Baptist pastors from across the country will be present to protest Flunder’s appearance next week.

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“We do not wear our sin as a badge and parade it,” Vaughn said. “When will the downward spiral end?”

“We don’t feel you have the right to live any way [you want] and be respected in the congregation of our faith,” he continued. “There is nothing holy about lesbianism as there is nothing holy about heterosexual adultery.”

According to a statement on the Refuge United Church of Christ website, Flunder believes that one’s self image can be harmed by believing that their lifestyle isn’t acceptable to God.

“Trying to establish a relationship with a God that barely tolerates you but cannot truly accept and certainly will never celebrate you can do incredible damage to ones self-esteem,” she wrote. “City of Refuge UCC welcomes people to be who they are by embracing a theology of acceptance—a radical inclusivity that leaves no one behind.”

Flunder and her partner spoke at an event in 2013 to urge the U.S. Supreme Court to strike down California’s Proposition 8, which enshrined marriage as being between one man and one woman.

As a result, the National Baptist Fellowship of Concerned Pastors is petitioning American Baptist College to reconsider Flunder’s invitation.

“We believe that President Forrest Harris should rescind the invitation for Bishop Yvette Flunder to speak at ABC, solely on the basis that she is a proud, practicing, and public advocate of same-sex marriage,” the petition reads. “We are also requesting that in the future, no male or female involved in a same-sex marriage be invited to speak at ABC.”

“For a Baptist college president to invite a lesbian bishop legally married to a woman, to be a guest speaker and worship leader on a Baptist college campus is irresponsible, scandalous, non-biblical, and certainly displeasing to God,” the organization states.

But Harris does not seem interested in changing the college’s plans for the event.

“It is particularly important for American Baptist College to truly live its educational mission of justice toward creating a community where all persons are able to love and be loved without social, political or ecclesiastical penalty so that all people may enjoy life and wholeness as God intends,” he said.


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  • thoughtsfromflorida

    Isn’t it wonderful that we live in a nation where religious organizations are free to conduct themselves as they see fit?

    ” and certainly displeasing to God,” the organization states.”

    Takes quite a bit of hubris and arrogance to suggest they know with certainty what is displeasing to God. Apparently they think they ARE God, which I would think would be quite displeasing to God.

    • Paul Hiett

      The hypocrisy we see from “Christianity” in this country on a daily basis is mind boggling. I remember the first time I learned there were over 42,000 denominations and was shocked. Now, I’m not shocked anymore.

      • Deina

        And probably two thirds of those denominations think that theirs is the ONLY way to Heaven.

        • brine

          Actually a denomination doesn’t get anyone into Heaven…Repentance towards God and faith towards the Lord Jesus Christ…Ye must be born again.

          • Deina

            So do you not belong to a denomination that believes that?

            Shirley you’re not the only one in your church that believes that faith in Christ is the only way to salvation, are you?

          • brine

            1. Salvation is a work of God not man, per scripture. 2. You go through Christ or you don’t go, per scripture. The end. You can trust in your ‘good works’ or denomination, or religious customs all you want, and again, per free will you can do that…and the end result is all the same. Eternal separation from the God that offered you a way out. The Bible is clear. Should you choose not to believe the bible, have at it. Drink up all this life has to offer until the cell door slams shut…

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        It truly is amazing.

        “Our laws should be based upon the morals of the bible!”

        “So do the various sects of Christianity have common agreement as to what the Bible says is moral and what is not?”

        “No.”

        “Well, get back to us when they do.”

    • Mary Creekmore

      No one is forced to believe the Bible.

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        Despite the best efforts of some Christians.

  • KenS

    John 1:1-3 says:

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word wasGod.

    2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    3 All things were made by him;and without him was not any thing made that was made .

    If the Word is God, then believing the Bible cannot be idolatry, because God is the Word and therefore you have not made anyone or anything an idol.

    • Shad_ow

      “We can’t be guided and dictated by a first-century world view.”
      The Bible is God’s word. Can any or all of the Bible’s teachings be dismissed as first-century views? I think not.

      • BigHobbit

        Absolutely not. Most of them are much, much earlier views, Some are even neolithic.

      • KenS

        To whom are you meaning to reply to, your quote was not spoken, typed by me anywhere in my comments. it goes completely against my beliefs.

        • Shad_ow

          It was said by Harris, President of the ABC and was written in the text above. I was agreeing with your post on God’s word. Thanks.

          • KenS

            oh, ok, thanks.

  • Peter Leh

    What does the Bible say about Idols? And yes, people can make the bible an idol over gods leading. The idolatry comes when your interpretation must become mine.

    • Mary Creekmore

      Is the Bible the infallible word of God?

      • Deina

        Is it? Men chose what to put in, and more importantly, what to leave out of our modern Bible.

        How can anything be “infallible” that mankind’s arrogance has had a hand in?

        • Oboehner

          Your ignorance of scripture is astounding, tell us again why you choose to troll this site?

          • Deina

            Your drive-by snarkiness, as well as your apparent lack of historical knowledge is even more astounding.

            Did you have anything to say that is relevant to the topic?

          • Paul Hiett

            When you point out the facts to people like him, they go for the personal attacks, rather than actually discuss the topic.

          • Oboehner

            “How can anything be “infallible” that mankind’s arrogance has had a hand in?” What was that about snarkiness?

            Tell us again why you choose to troll this site?

          • Deina

            Then give us a list of things that man has done that have turned out perfect

            We’ll wait. If you need a hint, you can start with the Titanic, or maybe the Crusades. If you want something a bit more modern how about nuclear energy? And fracking!

          • Oboehner

            Well the Bible wouldn’t be on the “things that man has done” list, as far as the rest What is the relevance? We all know man is fallible.

            Tell us again why you choose to troll this site?

          • Deina

            What do yo mean Well the Bible wouldn’t be on the “things that man has done” list?

            Where did it come from then? Did God personally hand you yours? Mine came from a store — actually several stores, as I have more than one — and the store got it from a printer who had humans doing everything from typing up to layout. I guess there’s certainly no chance for error there, is there!

            So let’s go back to the beginning then:

            The biblical stories were strictly word of mouth for the first few thousand years before they were even written down. Did you ever play “telephone” when you were in school? Were you amazed when the story came out word-for-word identical after 30 kids in 5 minutes? Multiply that by hundreds of thousands of people over thousands of years.

            After that, they were written & copied by hand until the printing press was invented in the 15th century. How many pages of text can you hand print before you make a mistake? How about before you unconsciously correct something that strikes you as a grammatical or spelling error?

            Even if the ancient scribes were 100, or 1000, times better at this task than you or I would be, how many errors are there going to be? The Dead Sea Scrolls contained numerous copies of every book in the Hebrew bible (except Esther. I wonder why it’s in today’s Bible, but they didn’t have it.), and, while essentially similar, they contained “many variations and errors.” Additionally, the Scrolls contained several books that are not in today’s bible. Why? Who decided what should go in the Bible & what should be left out? Humans! Those loveable creatures of whom you said We all know man is fallible

          • Oboehner

            2 Timothy 3:16-17
            16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
            17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

            Matthew 24:35
            35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

            1 Corinthians 1:18
            18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

            Tell us again why you choose to troll this site?

          • Deina

            As I recall, the book of Mormon, the Qur’an, and probably several other books also claim that they are the “word of God.”

            While it’s obviously sufficient for you, your argument of “it is because it says it is” fails to persuade.

          • Oboehner

            Romans 1:19-20
            19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
            20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
            1 Corinthians 1:18
            18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
            Tell us again why you choose to troll this site?

          • Deina

            Thank you for admitting that you have nothing showing what the original version of the Bible actually said.

            OOPS! Did I just roll my eyes out loud? I didn’t mean to! Maybe you didn’t see it. I’d hate for you to think I was making fun of you…

          • Oboehner

            I admitted no such thing. While we’re at it why don’t you show us that “common ancestor” or some nice 8X10 glossies of that exploding dot?

            Tell us again why you choose to troll this site?

          • Deina

            Then I’ll give you one more chance — where’s your proof?

            I can see why you don’t want people here asking questions — cause you sure seem weak on answers.

          • Oboehner

            The Textus Receptus matches The Magdalen Papyrus, which is the oldest know text from the New Testament having been dated at 66 A.D.

            Now it’s your turn, tell us again why you choose to troll this site?

          • Deina

            So you have two copies of the “same” book.

            And when you say “matches.” how closely?

            Wait a sec! Do you by chance happen to know what the The
            Magdalen Papyrus even is? In total it “consists of 3
            small fragments, and is a portion of Matthew’s Gospel (Matt 26:7-8, 26:10,
            14-15, 22-23, 31-33)” Look up
            images in your search engine.

            And you want to use those three fragments to authenticate
            the entire Bible?

            The Dead Sea Scrolls have multiple copies of most of the
            books of the OT, including 19 copies of the Book of Isaiah, 25 copies of
            Deuteronomy and 30 copies of the Psalms. Maybe they were slow sellers? And, as I mentioned earlier, while
            essentially similar, they contained “many variations and
            errors.”

            Looks like you still have nothing but coconuts.

          • Deina

            So you have two copies of the “same” book.

            And when you say “matches.” how closely?

            Wait a sec! Do you by chance happen to know what the The Magdalen Papyrus even is? In total it “consists of 3 small fragments, and is a portion of Matthew’s Gospel (Matt 26:7-8, 26:10, 14-15, 22-23, 31-33)” Look up the images in your search engine for yourself.

            And you want to use those three fragments to authenticate the entire Bible?

            The Dead Sea Scrolls have multiple copies of most of the books of the OT, including 19 copies of the Book of Isaiah, 25 copies of Deuteronomy and 30 copies of the Psalms. Maybe they were slow sellers? And, as I mentioned earlier, while essentially similar, they contained “many variations and errors.”

            Looks like you still have nothing but coconuts.

          • Oboehner

            What are you whining about, that’s far more proof than evolutionism ever gives.

            I don’t subscribe to the Dead Sea Scrolls, because they contained “many variations and errors.”

            Tell us again why you choose to troll this site?

        • Rose Ritokoski

          The Word of God was spoken by God and written down by men translated by scholars who very carefully translated the Word of God knowing there was a price to be paid by adding or subtracting from the Word of God when talking about the bible it is the infallible word of God period.

          • Deina

            Then how do you explain the contradictions between translations, the contradictions within the Bible itself, and why are there over 40,000 different Christian denominations when they are all based upon this “infallible” book?

          • Rose Ritokoski

            Just because people think the bible contradicts itself dues not mean the bible contradicts itself it lines up line upon line as to different denominations these are caused by people who disagree with each other the very first example of this was when Barnabas and Paul had an argument that they went there own separate ways.

          • Deina

            So did Barnabas go to heaven, or did Paul? How do you know?

          • Rose Ritokoski

            Yes Paul and Barnabas went to heaven Jesus said for it is written He went to prepare a place for us everyone who excepted Him as Lord and Saviour in heaven. Jesus is the Lamb of God that was slain for our sin He paid the price so that we can be forgiven of all sin that dues not mean we can continue to sin there is supposed to be a change after we except Jesus as Lord

          • Deina

            Then you agree that different people don’t always have to read the Scriptures the same way, yet each can still be ‘right’.

            Thank you for admitting that! Most on your side of the fence won’t.

          • Rose Ritokoski

            Lets get something straight the Holy Spirit gives people the understanding for scripture it is not what people understand with there mind I said Paul and Barnabus had a disagreement and they separated which is written in the bible which caused the first church split the church is the people of God not a building. And only the people that know Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour have the Holy Spirit because Jesus said He would come and live on the inside of people and the Holy Spirit was a gift which is written in the book of Acts these people who think they know what the bible says without knowing Jesus as Lord are only fooling themselves for it is written God’s thoughts are higher then our thoughts there is no possible way for people to understand the bible with out the Holy Spirit showing them reveling scripture to them.

          • Deina

            So are you saying that the Holy Spirit told Paul one thing & Barnabas something else? Is that how they were interpreting the same thing differently? Is it a kind of “Tower of Babel” thing?

          • KenS

            Guys, really read the verses you are discussing here, the disagreement was about Barnabas wanting to take john mark with them on their next missions journey and Paul did not want to because John Mark had left them on the last journey. Later in 2 Timothy chapter 4, you clearly see that Paul has admitted that he was wrong, by making the statement to bring john mark to him because he is of good use. It is a man’s difference of opinion, not the holy spirit telling one one thing and another something else. You really need to know what you are talking about before making such statements.

          • Rose Ritokoski

            No I am not saying the Holy Spirit said one thing to someone and said something else to someone else I am saying people have disagreements people make mistakes quit expecting people to be God because they are not God. Only Jesus did exactly what God said Jesus talked to God before He did anything for it is written that the Father Jesus is talking about God dues the Work I do nothing myself.

          • KenS

            Rose, we apprently were writing our comments at about the same time, and I see from your comment that you are in agreement with me about man making mistakes.

          • Rose Ritokoski

            Yes which is why we should follow along in the bible at the preaching of the Word of God is because people can make mistakes

          • Deina

            So who made the mistake, Barnabas or Paul?

            Since they were both “men of God”, or “holy men”, or “bead shakers of the first water” or whatever you want to call them, and they disagreed with what it meant 2,000 years ago, when they were living it, what makes you so certain that you are interpreting it correctly?

            The biblical stories were strictly word of mouth for the first few thousand years before they were even written down. After that, they were written & copied by hand until the printing press was invented in the 15th century. How many pages of text can you hand print before you make a mistake? How about before you unconsciously correct something that strikes you as a grammatical or spelling error?

            Even if the ancient scribes were 100, or 1000, times better at this task than you or I would be, how many errors are there going to be? The Dead Sea Scrolls contained numerous copies of every book in the Hebrew bible (except Esther), and, while essentially similar, they contained “many variations and errors.” Additionally, the Scrolls contained several books that are not in today’s bible. Why?

            I’ve seen your lips moving quite a bit, but I don’t see you disputing my premise that two people can read the same verse, or verses, and get different meanings and both can be right!

            Thank you for backing me up!

      • Peter Leh

        yes. it is we that get in the way.

        • Paul Hiett

          Are you married?

          • Peter Leh

            such a personal question paul. 😉

            we do you ask?

          • Paul Hiett

            It goes back to my statement regarding 1 Corinthians, which calls for women to remain silent in church.

  • brine

    For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; II Timothy 4:3

    There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness. Proverbs 30:12

    Spend a few minutes reading Jude….it covers it all pretty clearly…one day in judgement God will convince people of their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches with ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

    • Tracy Nikkel

      My thoughts exactly. I’m hoping this a sign that the end is near!

      • Richard Allen Kirkwood Sr.

        Those scriptures must have been referring to all you self-righteous Christians.

        • Tony Robinson

          Self-righteous: a person that values their moral compass over God’s. True Christians cannot be self-righteous: their confessed their moral compass to be broken, that God’s Word is true, and that any righteousness they have is imputed by Christ.

          • Richard Allen Kirkwood Sr.

            You go right on ahead and believe that crock of bull!

          • Tony Robinson

            An illogical and self-righteous response. Morality cannot be derived from physical processes: it originates from the realm of the unseen, whether it be the heart of God or your own heart. You were born under a moral standard that existed before you did.

          • lindywise

            Your complaint is with Jesus Christ of Nazareth. We are trying to be obedient and you are trying to make us stumble and fall.

            Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

          • bamared2222

            Don’t talk about what you don’t understand. You are the one who has bought into the crock of bull; actually in to the very first lie by Satan in the Bible which is: “Did God really say that?”

      • Deina

        Christians have been thinking the world is in its “end times” for 2000 years. So far they’ve been mistaken.

        The end will come, when it comes, and I highly doubt that God appreciates the efforts of those who are actively working to try to start Armageddon in the ME.

        • lindywise

          2Pe3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earthstanding out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was,being overflowed with water, perished:

          But the heavens and he earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto
          fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
          But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is
          with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
          It’s because of the Lord’s mercy. He wants you to come to repentance because He loves you. But that door is closing. I pray you turn to Him before it’s too late for you.

        • bamared2222

          Sorry, God is in control of the events and when they will occur and if you were vigilant, you would see events converging right now that will indicate his soon coming. But also consider what scripture says about statements such as you first made:

          2 Peter 3:
          3 First, I want to remind you that in the last days there will come scoffers who will do every wrong they can think of and laugh at the truth. 4 This will be their line of argument: “So Jesus promised to come back, did he? Then where is he? He’ll never come! Why, as far back as anyone can remember, everything has remained exactly as it was since the first day of creation.”

          5-6 They deliberately forget this fact: that God did destroy the world with a mighty flood long after he had made the heavens by the word of his command and had used the waters to form the earth and surround it. 7 And God has commanded that the earth and the heavens be stored away for a great bonfire at the judgment day, when all ungodly men will perish.

          8 But don’t forget this, dear friends, that a day or a thousand years from now is like tomorrow to the Lord. 9 He isn’t really being slow about his promised return, even though it sometimes seems that way. But he is waiting, for the good reason that he is not willing that any should perish, and he is giving more time for sinners to repent. 10 The day of the Lord is surely coming, as unexpectedly as a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and the heavenly bodies will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be burned up.”

          • Deina

            “And God has commanded that the earth and the heavens be stored away for a great bonfire at the judgment day…”

            A great bonfire? What translation are you reading, one specially made for 3rd graders? Does it say if there will be s’mores?

          • bamared2222

            Just a modern translation. I wrote this several days ago and do not recall specifically, but what is the difference? Judgment will be horrific, that is why people are warned to turn to God and avoid it! Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? Some believe fire and brimstone included meteorites being unleashed on the population. God is extremely patient, but one day sin will be over the top so far that he will execute justice and deal with those who refuse his offer of salvation and love. Smores? I hardly think it will be a party and sadly neither will the afterlife of those who reject God.
            Subject: Re: Comment on American Baptist College Defends Invite to Lesbian Speaker, Says Christians Make ‘ Idol’ of Bible

    • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

      Can’t we all just get along? NO! Jesus did not come to bring peace, but division. Sadly these people will be without excuse when they stand before Him. Twisting God’s word is making an idol of yourself.

      • brine

        Unfortunately a lot of people miss out on where Christ said Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
        The Word divides….we just have to make sure when we are standing or speaking the truth it isn’t ‘us’ that offends..but if the Word offends…that happens. Usually those in the wrong are quickest to scream murder…(Remember Moses when dealing with the Hebrew that smote his brethren? The one that was in the wrong was angry with Moses)

      • Rose Ritokoski

        What people do not realize the Word of God is Jesus for He is the Word of God that was made flesh to turn away from the Word of God and do something different is turning your back on Jesus pray for them to see the truth as long as they are a live there is hope for change.

  • TheBBP

    Hopefully responsible churches involved with that conference pull their names and support.

  • Gary

    I get so tired of infidels pretending to be Christians. I wish they would stop the act. If you don’t believe the Bible, you are not a Christian. And it really is that simple. This “school” should stop calling itself Baptist and Christian. STOP THE HYPOCRISY!!!!!!

    • BigHobbit

      You believe in the bible, and you believe what YOU think it says. The problem is that other people believe in the same bible, yet believe in what THEY think is says. Christians have been debating, and fighting wars, about God’s word for as long as there have been Christians. My faith is the “one true faith”, and those other guys are all heretics and apostates.

      • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

        you really haven’t said anything. You haven’t stated what your faith is. Here is mine. You see if God’s Word says it, nothing will change it. Not even people like the speaker who calls it a lie.
        1 Corinthians 6:9 Do
        you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
        Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
        nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And
        such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified,
        but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit
        of our God.

        • BigHobbit

          What I said was, different Christians interpret the bible in very different ways. I didn’t say that I was a Christian, at all. I am not. I only observe that those of you who are Christian are all over the map on all kinds of issues, not just the gays, and each and everyone seems to think they have the one true faith. I have no objective way of evaluating which of you actually has the “one true faith”, so that I may disregard all of the rest of you as heretics.

          • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

            It is easy to see why your confused. If your not a Christian you couldn’t possibly understand. Because the Holy Spirit doesn’t live within you. The Holy Spirit gives gifts to those who belong to Jesus. One of those gifts is discernment.

            Understanding spiritual things is not for those who have no understanding. Only thing they have is confusion and the lies of their father Satan. Actually what you regard is of no value when it comes to scripture because you can’t understand it without the Spirit guiding you…

            Unlike all other religions, true Christians don’t kill, enslave, steal, etc in the Name of their God. Only People who falsely us His Name for their gain.

            Until you have the Holy Spirit, your walking around in the dark weather you know it or not. http://danbel.webspawner.com/thelordsroom/

          • BigHobbit

            I don’t disagree with your, or anyones, spiritual ideas.

            I just think that you need to acknowledge that when you try to apply your spiritual ideas to others, that you should recognize that their spiritual ideas may be considerably different than yours.

          • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

            I have no problem with that explanation. Because your 100% correct. My place isn’t to make anyone accept what I believe, only to present the argument, at that point it is the Holy Spirit of Christ. Take a look at the link. Take care

          • Larry Mccoy

            Amen brother amen

          • Jeanie Nelson

            And it does not matter what man thinks Only what G_D says and he does not change and the bible is his inspired word he said that not me.

          • lynn

            My bible says that God is the same from eternity to this very day, and He will remain the same forever. The same is true with His Word.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Then why are there so many different sects of Christianity?

          • lynn

            I didn’t say that people don’t change. They certainly have. Everything except God and His Word has changed and will continue to do so until the end.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Since the various sects of Christianity cannot come to agreement as to the totality of “God’s word” and how it should interpreted, it would be nonsensical to suggest “God’s word” is a singular thing.

            The Bible came into being from oral stories that were handed down over years. Its contents was written by man. It was a group of men who decided which gospels to include in the Bible and which to exclude. The original Aramaic has been translated and retranslated hundreds of times. It is simply without reason to suggest that what is contained in today’s Bible represents the unchanging word of God from biblical times.

          • Tony Robinson

            Actually, the above is a common misconception. The closest thing to reality was the statement about “a group of men” deciding, but even that was distorted (It was a distinct group of men with specific qualifications). They did not validate texts without appropriate reason: they had history and a set of criteria for authenticating the genuine from counterfeits, that allowed the “known” specimens to testify either for or against the “unknown” specimens. Similar methods can be seen in courtrooms using bibliographical testing between contested wills or other documents. The writers of the N.T. books wrote within the lifetime of the events (not passed down thousands of years before being written) and their manuscripts and partial manuscripts are exceedingly better established than any other document from that era – or even times before that (far better than Socrates, Plato, etc).

            The Old Testament books give several examples of there being other written accounts that existed prior to their own inscription, so the ancients were not so stupid as to have only oral traditions. Even more poignant is the fact that the texts (both OT and NT) were mostly authenticated at the time by signs and wonders in the life of the one singled out as God’s spokesman.

            But all of this pales in comparison to there being over 500 eye witnesses of a resurrected Jesus Christ walking among them for over a month and a half before being taken up before their sight. Many of these eye-witnesses suffered and died for that testimony, not denying it, and many of them continued to live while the NT books were being propagated. One last thing, when archeological digs find ancient texts today and compare them to the texts we have today – they don’t find changes that would suggest we are without God’s written word today. We only live in a biblically illiterate society that continues to spout misconceptions – or perhaps deliberate deceptions – regarding God’s Word.

          • lindywise

            We change because of sin.

          • lynn

            BINGO!!!

          • lindywise

            There won’t be for long. The Lord is separating the sheep from the goats as we speak.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            So people have been saying since the gospels were written.

          • Faithwalker

            Amen!

          • Lester Peoples

            A men, well said’

          • Clive Johnson

            Other Christians will disagree with you and be just as convinced of their interpretation as you are of yours.

          • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

            I have already answered you Clive. Your looking for any reason to reject Christ and I’m not playing your game. You either come to Him or you reject Him. As for other “Christians” they will answer for themselves. Just as I will. http://danbel.webspawner.com/thelordsroom/

          • Tammy Saunders

            Just so you know, the only truth is in God’s Word. That is the standard that judges everyone, not denominations or silly humans. Christians don’t interpret the Bible in different ways and Christians aren’t having wars over these issues. I have friends from all different denominations and we pretty much agree on most things in OUR Bible, although our styles of worship may be different. Maybe you need to go to church more often rather than spending time of the blogs unless you get paid to stir up trouble on blogs.

          • BigHobbit

            Just so you know, YOU think the YOUR idea of what is “Gods Word” is the only truth. There are millions of others on the planet who think THEIR idea of what is “Gods Word” is the only truth. The problem is, that those ideas often are mutually exclusive. And on matters of faith, unlike matters of science, there are NO objective ways of determining the relative theological accuracy.

          • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

            It is easy to look at creationists and say there is no science because the secular world says it. but my friend Jesus is the architect of everything including science. He is also known as the Word of God [John 1:1-3] which has many meanings. Take a look at this page and if you wish you can contact my friend who is a Scientist and give him your arguments. I’m not a creation scientist but I am smart enough to find them. Dr. Baugh will be more than happy to reply. http://creationevidence.org/

          • BigHobbit

            BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA……

            Good luck without modern medicine. Which is based on modern biology. Which is based on an understanding of actual science on evolution, NOT on a bunch of nutjobs at the local creation “science” museum, with the fantasies about man riding on vegetarian tyrannosaurs….

            heheheheheehehe,……. haven’t laughed that hard in a while…..

          • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

            Ok, you win

          • Rhonda Renee Albrecht

            hmmmm… you sure about that? modern medicine is based on modern biology, which is based on an understanding of actual science on evolution? How so? Even Charles Darwin stated that what he wrote about was a ‘THEORY’, not fact. They still haven’t proven that evolution is FACT. So, straw argument. BTW, the Bible has proven that today’s medicine is based on OLD science, not modern. Jesus said to ‘take a little wine for an upset stomach.’ Do you know why? Because people were contracting dysentery from drinking the water they were retrieving out of the channels in the communities they were living in… the same ones that the raw sewage was being thrown in. It wasn’t until the American civil war that it was discovered what caused dysentery, and steps were taken to prevent it (latrines were moved to the end of the camp where the water exited the camp, instead of where the water sources entered the camp). But Jesus already knew, and that’s why He said to drink the wine, instead of the water.

          • BigHobbit

            The Theory of Gravity is also just a theory too, right?

          • Rhonda Renee Albrecht

            Has the ‘theory of evolution’ been proven? Nope. However, the ‘theory of gravity’ has, many times over. Stupid example. Darwin’s ‘missing link’ still hasn’t been discovered, and it NEVER will be, because it doesn’t exist, in the first place. However, archaeology consistently proves that the Bible, therefore, Creation, is truth, because evidence shows that what is in the Bible existed.

          • BigHobbit

            “However, archaeology consistently proves that the Bible, therefore, Creation, is truth”

            BWAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHA…..

          • BigHobbit

            yeah – cuz creation science is such a winner in the court system, right?

          • SashaC

            The point that BigHobbit was making went right over your head, because you clearly don’t know the difference between a scientific theory and the meaning of the word theory in layman’s terms. You’re making yourself look extremely uneducated. Here, this explains it in a very simple manner…

            http://www.notjustatheory.com/

            Also, how does archaeology support the bible? Please cite this “evidence.” This should be amusing…

          • Tony Robinson

            Having been a science teacher, I would like to remind you that the founders of many of today’s branches of science were Bible believing Christians, who approached the world believing it had inherent purpose and organization. It was their belief that drove them to understand products of the mind of God. Though many in the field today adhere to an the antiquated idea of biological evolution, the lab practices and approach they use for workable solutions such as genetic mapping, are plagiarized from the worldview of Christianity. In contrast, their own worldview cannot offer a rational reason for the irreducible interdependent complexities that exist in biological mechanisms and laboratory observations confirm such complexity contained in intelligible code does exist.
            As to your question as to how archeology supports the Bible, I’ll point out only one of the many examples: the geologic record, regardless of how it is interpreted, always shows an explosion of life in its complete and fully functional form. There are no gradual transitions from one species to another, no layers of animals with bad legs that eventually turn into wings over millions of years, but rather a reduction of species that continues today through extinction.

          • BigHobbit

            Hehehehe…… no really……stop….hehehehr

            You are a writer at the onion, right?
            Totally pulling my leg.

          • Tony Robinson

            Thank you for a thoughtful reply that best represents your worldview. It is much appreciated.

            “The wicked plots against the righteous And gnashes at him with his teeth. The Lord laughs at him, For He sees his day is coming.” Psalm 37

          • BigHobbit

            Haven’t you heard? The earth is flat -The bible is the literal truth, and Genesis says so:

            http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Christians don’t interpret the Bible in different ways”

            So, assuming that you believe your interpretation of the Bible is the “correct” one, then anyone who interpreted the Bible different than you is not really a Christian, is that correct?

            Since each of the different sects of Christianity believes that their interpretation is the correct one – how do we determine who are “true” Christians and who are not?

          • Bruce Morrow

            If you are not a Christian why are you posting on this Christian site then???

          • BigHobbit

            I must have missed the sign saying only Christians are entitled to express opinions here.

          • lynn

            I seriously doubt that you can find very many Christians agitating folks on atheist sites.

          • BigHobbit

            I see dozens of those who quote their faith to deny equal rights to fellow Americans on sites dedicated to marriage equality.

          • Tony Robinson

            Rights are created by the Creator, not by the State.

          • lynn

            They want to cause enough distraction that those of us who would love to discuss our faith in Christ, and holy living spend most of our time argueing with them. We should just ignore them and carry on with Christian conversations, and if they want to read perhaps they will begin to absorb a little truth. Some might even receive the Gospel. And perhaps I might learn a little and grow in faith. True Christians always want to grow in the Lord.

          • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

            While I don’t agree with BigHobit about his stand. Trying to block atheists views doesn’t help. Peter told us to always be ready to give an answer. Besides like many do, he really hasn’t been rude. Prayer for him is more appropriate. It’s obvious that he refuses to change and that is sad, but think about the unknowing Christian who might benefit from your arguments. In the end we know that he and the foolish people at that college will stand before Christ one day. Sadly then it will be too late…

          • Neil Parker

            Because this is a public site, where Christians gather to mutually support their brothers and sisters who also proclaim that Jesus is Lord. Except that this forum does not really honor Jesus’ prayer that “all might be one.”

          • lynn

            All of us who are Christians agree on most things, and it is sure that we all agree that Jesus Christ is LORD!!! The only differences we have is in some church doctrins such as many believe the church originated from Pentecost while others believe the Lord Jesus establishedHis church in Luke chapter number 6 and verses 12 through 16. This is not a point of fellowship among the different opinions.

      • Peter Leh

        those in power rarely give it up… willingly. 🙂

      • Jeanie Nelson

        G_D is very specific about what he says. He is unchanging and homosexuality is a abomination. Sins are weighed as good works are weighed. That is the sin that G_D burned cities to the ground over. And some how they think that he is joking I guess they will see. Those who do not know history are destined to repeat it.

      • Bruce Morrow

        Just a bunch of nonsense you spewed out. Nothing more.

        • BigHobbit

          Ad hominem attack. Neither supports your position, nor counters mine.

          You fail to address my point: You are not alone in your belief in a “one true faith”, there are others, of other faiths, all equally sure that their faith is the “one true faith.”

          • Susan V Beck

            There are many fakes, designed to muddy the waters. Or like flack from an airplane, they are there to confuse your focus. There is an enemy who hates mankind and wants to drag as many humans down to hell with him as possible. This enemy does not play fair or line everything up nicely like a buffet or a convention, where you simply walk down the line and make your choices. This enemy lies, cheats, twists, steals, destroys, masquerades, mimics, infiltrates, etc., etc.

            Jesus told us how to tell the false from the true.

            There are also varieties within the One true Faith in Jesus. As long as these differences are not about the essentials, we are fine. We can agree to disagree and we can still fellowship.

            A question: How do you know that all are “equally sure” of their faith? I have met many people, and have read the writings of others, who admit that while members of certain groups or religions, they did not really believe. Some were not sure, others knew they were wrong. This is why they FLED to Jesus. Don’t be fooled by appearances, my friend. Please don’t make assumptions about such important things.

    • Peter Leh

      Gary, don;t you think is we all believed the Bible there would only be ONE denomination? otherwise, there is room at the table. God will separate the goats on the other side, correct?

      Love wins.

      • Lester Peoples

        God said I will build My Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. We need not protect or excuse what God hath made He will judge and destroy all sin when he returns! We should not sit at the devils table !!

        • Peter Leh

          like jesus did?

        • Peter Leh

          “God said I will build My Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.”

          Yep.

          “We need not protect or excuse what God”

          Nor do we need to call other believers “in or out” because they are of a different denomination or do not believe exactly the same as do.

          Gary does does the very thing you mention.

          “He will judge and destroy all sin when he returns!”

          Yep

          “We should not sit at the devils table !!”

          by “devils table” i suppose you mean “unbelievers table”?
          i have never sat with the devil 😉

          • Lester Peoples

            There is Only One True God! He says He is a jealous God and will have no others before Him! Is this so hard to understand that even Satan’s demons tremble at the name of Jesus His Son, who will judge sin unto hell ! Pick which side your on–you haven’t long to choose and eternity is a long time in the lake of fire!

          • Peter Leh

            “There is Only One True God!”

            Yep

            “He says He is a jealous God and will have no others before Him! ”

            Yep

            “Is this so hard to understand that even Satan’s demons tremble at the name of Jesus His Son, who will judge sin unto hell ! ”

            Nope.

            “Pick which side your on–you haven’t long to choose and eternity is a long time in the lake of fire!”

            Yep.

            Now, please stay on subject. 😉

    • Jeanie Nelson

      You are right Gary why don’t they just enjoy their lives doing what ever they want because what they are doing now is worse because they are sitting on the fence. And G_D himself says he will spew them out of his mouth. Sad for them.

    • laushe6

      The devil is using the gays to get into our churches. If they can dictate what we believe about gays how long will it be before they say we can’t believe in Jesus and the Bible? This “president” already calls belief in the Bible to be “idolatry”. We need to stand up and take our churches back before are pushed out and our beliefs made illegal.

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        “If they can dictate what we believe about gays”

        No one can dictate what you believe about gays. You are free to believe whatever you care to.

        • laushe6

          For now yes we can but this heresy is spreading and if we aren’t diligent our right to believe will be taken away. Already there are churches that have succumbed to this heresy. Man’s laws are changeable but GOD’s is not

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            So you believe that the nation is going to repeal the 1st Amendment?

            “Man’s laws are changeable but GOD’s is not”

            And by “God’s laws” I assume you are referring to what you have chosen to believe are God’s laws. What hubris to think that because you have chosen to believe something, it is therefore true.

          • laushe6

            You are the arrogant one assuming things I did not say. I did not say the first amendment would be repealed. Our freedoms are being eroded little by little. Soon it will be considered a hate crime to say homosexuality is a sin. I believe in the Bible. I believe what it says is true. I believe Jesus died for my sins and one day I will see Him in Heaven. What about you? What do YOU believe in?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            I didn’t assume you said anything. I asked you.

            The only way that our right to believe will be taken away is if the 1st amendment is repealed. Therefore, based upon the statement you made, my question was reasonable.

            I believe that you believe in the bible and that what it says is true. I believe that you believe that Jesus died for our sins and that you will see him in Heaven after you die. That’s what I believe.

          • laushe6

            Ok here goes and I hope you understand me this time. Look at the boys at SAE who were expelled for singing that song. That song was WRONG but it was speech. How long until saying homosexuality is a sin is defined as hate crime? The First Amendment is still intact but saying that will still send you to prison. All I am really saying is we need to be watchful lest our rights be taken away.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            I agree that we must be diligent in ensuring that our rights continue to be protected. Unlike you, I don’t believe that there is any danger that merely stating that you believe homosexuality is a sin will be labeled a “hate crime”. I certainly would not support such a thing.

          • lindywise

            Liar

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            What is it you believe I am lying about?

          • Tony Robinson

            The Soviet Union also had “religious freedom” clauses.

          • Clive Johnson

            What this god is interpreted as standing for has changed frequently through history. Still to this day many beliefs are attributed to this being that are mutually contradictory:

            -God was for kings and monarchs, and then he was against and for representative government.
            -God is for and against capital punishment.
            -God supports and opposes homosexual equality under the law.
            -God created the earth vs. God created the laws of the universe which created the earth on its own without direct intervention from God.

            Etc.

            How does anyone know what to think?

          • laushe6

            Prayer and the Bible. God loves the homosexual but not their behavior. yes the Bible has been used and misused for all time. But there are constants and homosexuality as a.sin is one of them. I would suggest a good church where the Bible is taught

          • Clive Johnson

            I hear what you’re saying. However, how do you know what a “good” church is? I know Christians who don’t believe homosexuality is a sin and they believe their churches are the “good” ones.

          • laushe6

            First and foremost they must preach Jesus. He is the only means of salvation and the only path to Heaven. I would first recommend Catholic (yes I am) then Southern Baptist.

            Help me out friends. Recommendations for Clive?

          • Clive Johnson

            Let me tell you a true anecdote.

            At a party about two years ago I was speaking with a Lutheran minister that I know. He said that he would be willing to preach a sermon on Jesus being a homosexual. The minister didn’t actually believe that Jesus was gay, but the point of the sermon would be to emphasize the point of Jesus’ compassion for everyone. I should also point out that this minister doesn’t believe that homosexuality is at all a sin.

            Now, having known this minister for a while, I can assure you that he’s serious about his belief in Christ, about his ministry, about his church. If you had a chance to meet this minister you’d have the strong impression that he was part of a ‘good’ church.

          • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

            You keep saying this stuff like you have found an answer that nobody else has. God doesn’t change, His Word doesn’t change and that pastor isn’t following the true God. Saying that Jesus who is God is gay is blasphemy. If you find someone who tells you something contrary to what scripture says, they are not only a liar but don’t care about your soul. The Greatest hate crime there is, is not warning others about hell. Not trying to be their buddy for friendship. https://www.facebook.com/notes/dan-beliveau/changing-doctrine/318153011565801

          • Clive Johnson

            If there is a god how can you possibly say anything about what this god is like? The universe itself is in constant change. If this god is learning anything, then it too is in some sense changing by having to take in new information and revise understanding. All these confident assertions about this god don’t sound the least bit like observations of a reality external to yourself, but much more like projections of wish fulfillment and ego.

          • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

            I told you Clive God doesn’t change. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. The Universe was created by Jesus [John 1:1-3] nothing that happens is a surprise to Him. It’s not my job to convince you of anything. My place is to tell you His truth and then it’s between you and God. Period.

            Jesus said Matthew 28: “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

            If you reject His gift of Salvation, then you are left to your own devices. God will only reach out for so long and then the Holy Spirit will stop. Because you see nobody can come to Jesus unless the Holy Spirit calls them. This is my last attempt, you must decide. http://danbel.webspawner.com/thelordsroom/

          • Clive Johnson

            You told me…

            What matters to me is not what you or anyone else says, but what the evidence says. Further, I don’t see the Bible as particularly reliable and trustworthy. This god of yours doesn’t change? That’s a faith position, not one established on reason and evidence.

            How do you know the Holy Spirit will stop? Cannot people be “saved” when in their 80s or 90s? Who are you to put limits on your god?

          • lindywise

            Heb 13:8

            Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

          • Clive Johnson

            I don’t take the Bible at face value, but you appear to.

          • lindywise

            Gen 6:3
            And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

          • lindywise

            Awesome, brother. Let’s pray for Clive together since it’s obvious the Lord is drawing Him.

          • lindywise

            I can tell you exactly what He is like by my KJV bible. He says that what you are doing is a sin. Look at your anatomy. It was not created for the purpose you are using it.

          • Clive Johnson

            What am I doing that is sinful?

          • lindywise

            Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
            10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

          • Clive Johnson

            Are you capable of thinking for yourself?

          • lindywise

            Unfortunately yes, but I am trying as hard as I can to change that. I want to think like Jesus, so that I too am filled with love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, meekness, self-control. One day, when He wipes my tears away, I will remember nothing about sin or sinners–which unfortunately I still am. But by grace and His Word, he is changing me–from glory-to-glory, into His image.

            Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

            Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by The WORD,
            27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

          • Clive Johnson

            Those are laudable goals, but they are not incompatible with rational thought.

          • lindywise

            unsubscribe​

          • lindywise

            What part of reprobate mind do you not understand?

          • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

            Read the Bible! This is for eternal things not about weather that pathetic school is ok. Their not, their apostates. http://danbel.webspawner.com

          • lindywise

            Mimosas at his favorite cafe sunday morning. Leave the church to the christians.

          • laushe6

            Go right ahead. No one will stop you. We prefer to worship God. You go ahead and enjoy this life all you can – not that you need or want MY permission. You are going to do.as you want not what God wants. This life is fleeting and eternity without God will not be the party you think it will be. I hope you change your ways before it is too late

          • lindywise

            You misunderstood. You asked for a recommendation for Clive for Sunday mornings. He isn’t here to go to church. He is here to pick a fight. I suggested he goes to Sunday brunch and leave us Christians alone to worship the God we love.

          • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

            God never changes, only yours and maybe others views of things have changed. God was never for a King in Israel but let it happen because Israel rejected Him.. God has and never will support homosexuals or the practice only men have changed things. And your a liar about Him never being involved. In essence your calling the Bible a lie and that means your word isn’t worth much. Maybe you should actually read it and maybe attend a bible study instead of taking other peoples points and thinking their ok….

        • lindywise

          Okay, this is what I believe. Homosexuality is a sin. Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice like drinking. You choose to act out as a sexual deviant. Homosexuals will not enter the Kingdom of heaven. My bible says so.

          Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural
          use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working
          that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their
          error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God
          in their knowledge, God gave them over
          to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being
          filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness,
          maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters,
          haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things,
          disobedient to parents, Without
          understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable,
          unmerciful: 32
          Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are
          worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            You are certainly entitled to your beliefs.

    • Bruce Morrow

      Yes indeed. Stop the pretending. It is quite obvious to me this American Baptist college president is NOT even born again! Just a tare among the wheat!

    • thoughtsfromflorida

      So everyone who doesn’t share your views on the Bible is an infidel? Therefore, you want them all dead, as the Bible makes clear in Deuteronomy 13:6, correct?

      • Tony Robinson

        There is also a death penalty repeated throughout the Bible for any form of sin. So far, only one man in history is noted for having completely avoided it.

      • laushe6

        Did I say that? STOP LYING. I state my beliefs and warn of coming judgment. What you decide to do with that information is up to you. However one day you will answer to God for your decision

        • thoughtsfromflorida

          My response wasn’t to you. It was to Gary.

      • lindywise

        1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
        1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

        Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
        And that’s all, period the end. Repent florida…

    • lindywise

      Yes, that “president” needs to be removed or the students should be removed and everything should be done to remove their “Baptist” title.

  • Judy Staneart

    No! We make an “Idol” of the Author of the Bible. Period.

    • Rose Ritokoski

      The author of the bible is God it was spoken then it was written to say you don’t believe the bible is saying you don’t believe God.

  • Roodog

    From such turn away

    • Rose Ritokoski

      Yes I agree pray for them so that there soul maybe saved

  • Carol Cantell Moorby

    God certainly does care about the homosexual lifestyle and hates it. Romans 1:18-32 explains it so well. Compromising with scripture is lukewarm…God will vomit you out of his mouth..We are still to love the people but hate the sin.love is truth and truth is love. we are to share truth and get the people delivered. It is a demon spirit that enters unsuspecting people.Principalities and powers of darkness but the baptist faith doesn’t usually believe in demons. Although there are a few who have been enlightened. In the end times even the elect may be deceivednd apparently they are! They will answer to god for this foolishness one day….Pray for them!

    • Paul Hiett

      God doesn’t want you opening your mouth in church either, Carol, but I’m willing to bet you do.

    • Faithwalker

      Also, 1 Timothy 4:1 states “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.” The great falling away has started.

  • Jeffery Kinkead

    It’s called APOSTASY!

  • upload

    If I feel like raping 13 year old girls, and that’s my desire and lifestyle choice, should I follow through and expect God to accept it? This idea that God is all about love and not about justice is unbiblical. You don’t get everything you want from Him. And telling people that you do is hateful and dangerous.

    • Deina

      Always the same out of context BS, isn’t it?

      Why is that? Is it simply because you aren’t capable of making an intelligent argument without trying to tilt everything to one side?

      There’s an ENORMOUS difference between rape and private acts between consenting adults.

      Or maybe you don’t know that…

    • lynn

      God is Holy and just in all things.

  • GibbyD

    The “American” Baptist denomination is not The Southern Baptist, Regular or an Independent Baptist denomination. The American Baptist denomination has been wack for quite some time now. They are full of apostates and heretics. It is a shame that they even use the name “Baptist” in their wicked denomination.

    • upload

      Thank you. I had actually never heard of them, and my first thought was that there would be a massive uprising against the administration. Now I know the distinction.

  • disqus_Cz3dkuR6ry

    When remarks are made prioritizing a defense congruent with sin and self esteem as opposed to Biblical righteousness, it is apparent where priorities lie. (No pun intended)

  • Justin Roby

    Wow, the bible clearly states that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. Guess i’ll hold back my contributions on that college, i dont support the antichrist.

  • gregkliebigsr

    THIS IS THE COMMISSION THAT OUR CREATOR GOD (YAHWEH) HAS PUT ON ME TO DO, TO WARN HUMANITY !! LOVE WARNS !

    THIS IS NOT MY PERSONAL OPINION !

    “Thou shalt NOT lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination!” says the LORD GOD.

    LEVITICUS18: 22. SO, LET ME MAKE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR , HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION!!!

    The sin of homosexuality is a forgivable sin, but a person must confess and repent of their sin to the LORD JESUS; I John 1:8-9

    REPENT OF YOUR HOMOSEXUALITY! FOR THE BLOOD OF YESHUA (JESUS) WILL WASH YOU CLEAN AND DELIVER YOU OUT OF ALL YOUR SIN!

    ———

    HOMOSEXUALTY ROBS GOD OF NEW HUMANS TO LOVE AND FELLOWSHIP WITH AND DWELL IN! THAT, IS WHY YAHWEH (GOD) HATES HOMOSEXUALTY!

    IT IS A demon spirit from satan and he does not want more CHRISTIANS BORN FOR GOD TO INHABIT!

    ——

    Deuteronomy 23:17. There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a Sodomite of the sons of Israel.

    18. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a DOG , into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the Lord thy God.

    NOW, the term dog here means male prostitute: AND , YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE WHY GOD WOULD CALL THEM DOGS!!!

    NOW, LET US SEE WHAT THE LORD JESUS SAID ON THE SUBJECT:

    Revelation 22: 15. For without are DOGS, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    NOW, SO AS NOT TO LEAVE OUT :

    ROMANS CHAPTER 1: 16 – 32

    WELL JUST READ IT FOR YOURSELF!!!

    I am a servant of the MOST HIGH GOD and YAHWEH IS HIS NAME , THESE ARE HIS WORDS, PLEASE , DO NOT ARGUE WITH ME, TALK TO HIM ABOUT THIS !!

    • Paul Hiett

      How sad to see people using religion to justify how they treat others in this world.

      • gregkliebigsr

        THIS IS THE HALLMARK MESSAGE OF OUR CREATOR GOD !!

        Matthew 22: 36. Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

        37. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

        38. This is the first and great commandment.

        39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

        40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

        LOVE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, IST COMMAND!!

        LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOUR SELF, 2ND COMMAND!!

        IF YOU TRULY LOVE SOMEONE’ WILL YOU HURT THEM?

        WHY NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT!

      • gregkliebigsr

        WARNING–DANGER- ATTENTION

        Hello America and Planet earth, I am a man , standing in the middle of the road,late at night during a driving rain storm , jumping up and down, waving my arms wildly in the air! Because, a hundred yards right BEHIND me, the rain storm has washed out the bridge! The torrential down pour has washed out the BRIDGE! Fifty feet below where the bridge used to be is the RAGING BUFFALO RIVER!

        My precious fellow human beings, THE GOD of ALL creation has given me the task to warn humanity of the dangers ahead! If you heed my warning and stop, then you will be saved! If you keep going, at the rate you are going and not stop and not heed the warnings,

        then, YOU WILL PERISH!

        THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONE DOING THE WARNING! Yes, you see a man and you hear a man, but what you see and hear is the servant of GOD! It is HIM in me and through me! Yeshua (JESUS) has called many more , men and woman to be HIS servants as watchmen! He moves upon them by HIS HOLY SPIRIT and tells them where to go and what to say!

        So, what I / WE have been warning you of , IS FROM JESUS!!

        THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND ,

        SO REPENT and turn to JESUS THE CHRIST !

        HE IS THE ONLY WAY ! REPENT!

        John 14: 6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

        • Paul Hiett

          If we have free will, then that’s our choice, is it not?

          • Susan V Beck

            Yes. It is your choice. I pray and hope you fully understand and carefully consider before you decide.

            Jesus said many times, that on judgment day there would be much weeping. Your decision will have eternal consequences for you, one way or the other. The stakes are HUGE. Why else would God become one of us and pay such a horrible price? He mounted the most amazing rescue mission of all time. Because He loves you.

            The name Jesus (or Yeshua in the Hebrew) means God Rescues.

      • gregkliebigsr

        YES! YES ! YES! YOU LOVE ( AGAPE’) THE HUMAN BEING!!

        WE AS SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF YAHWEH MUST LOVE ALL OF HUMANITY!!

        NOW, LET ME SAY THIS: WE AS SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF THE MOST HIGH GOD YAHWEH MUST ONLY HATE THEIR SIN !!

         

        YOU MUST HATE EVIL, THE SPIRITS BEHIND THE SIN IN THE LIVES OF YOUR FELLOW HUMAN!! DO NOT , EVER NEVER HATE THE HUMAN!!!! BECAUSE WE LOVE, WE SHARE JESUS!

         

        WE DO NOT WANT ANYONE TO GO TO HELL! WE WANT PEOPLE TO FALL IN LOVE WITH THE LORD JESUS AND GIVE HIM GLORY , HONOR AND WORSHIP DUE HIS NAME!!!

         

        IT HIS LOVE FOR YOU THAT I WARN OF THOSE THINGS THAT KEEP YOU THE ,HUMAN, FROM GOD !

        SIN KILLS, SIN IS SEPARATION FROM THE ONE WHO MADE YOU !

         

        IT IS SO TRUE, YOU , THE HUMAN BEING , YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GO TO HEAVEN AND LIVE FOREVER WITH YOUR CREATOR AND LORD JESUS!!

         

        YOU HAVE THE GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO CHOOSE! ETERNITY WITH HIM OR ETERNITY ALL BY YOURSELF IN HELL! PERMIT ME PLEASE , TO GIVE YOU SOME DIRECTION IN THIS MATTER! CHOOSE THE LORD AND GOD OF ALL CREATION JESUS! MAKE HIM YOUR SAVIOR AND LORD, TODAY!

         

        OH, JUST FOR THE RECORD, IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE LORD AS YOUR SAVIOR , YOU WILL REMEMBER THIS CONVERSATION; FOR ALL ETENITY!

  • Kathy Poort

    Who is making an “idol” out of God’s Word, when God clearly tells us homosexuality is SIN. This is God’s instruction book to tell us how to live. Living against His Word brings consequences from Him.

    • Paul Hiett

      If so, shouldn’t that be for him to judge, and not humans?

      • brine

        He already has judged it…’ Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.” That was the cry in the OT…and in the NT the cry is the same for sin…Titus: 9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;”

        God is not blind…Christians are also not told to walk around blind to sin. We are to speak truth. God will execute final judgment, as in the ‘carrying out of sentence’ but Christians are told to use judgment…to speak and to act when necessary in accordance with clear teaching in Scriptures…Are there some areas where people may not agree? Not as many as there should be as Scripture is very clear on an awful lot of areas when line upon line and precept upon precept is rightfully divided. To act like Scripture is just a ‘mass of interpretation’ is foolish.

        • Paul Hiett

          So? So what if they don’t believe what you believe? Why can’t you just keep silent and stop judging people based on your choice of a religion?

          Why must you persecute homosexuals on a daily basis in this country?

          • brine

            1. God told Christians to abide by sound doctrine. 2. People professing to be Christians and living in open rebellion to God are told to be rebuked, marked, and separated from until they repent. 3. God told Christians not to be silent. 3. God told Christians they are to judge righteous judgment…which has to line up with His word, not feelings or the PC agenda of the day. 4. God commands all to repent and desires to have a proper relationship with them via the sacrifice paid by Christ. God makes new creatures with the goal of conforming to His image…not to take a label and be religious and rebellious. The new birth changes people. 5. People are free to believe whatever they want…called freewill…but people must realize there are consequences. 6. Calling sin sin isn’t persecution…it is a warning…as God told His people to ‘Warn all men’…unfortunately there are those that are willfully ignorant because they ‘love not the knowledge of the truth’.

          • Paul Hiett

            But again, so what? Does your religion give you rights over other people? Does your religion give you the right to tell others how to live?

            Your religion isn’t the only one on the planet, so how can you use it to justify how others live?

            What’s wrong with following it for yourself and letting others live as they so choose?

          • brine

            1. Not a religion but a relationship. That is deeper than what you realize and also goes into perversion of homosexuality and why God detests it. 2. Read my previous comments since your questions are a continual loop. “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” I Cor 2:14

          • Paul Hiett

            And 1 Corinthians also says that women shouldn’t speak in church, but I don’t see you advocating against them?

            Why the cherry picking here? If it’s ok to ignore one aspect of “God’s law”, why not another?

          • brine

            Because that wasn’t the focus of the discussion. Women aren’t to hold certain positions in the church and glad you recognize that. That doesn’t mean they are of less value that just means God set up things to His standard. (Just like in the OT God said someone that was deformed couldn’t hold certain offices…did people ignore that eventually…why yes they did…and there were consequences). Hence the denomination issue. Some denominations clearly ignore scripture and say that is okay…but they have to ignore scripture to do that. (That is still a separate issue from the new birth.) When people get away from scripture then you have a problem. The issue even as you have shown isn’t with scripture…it is people choosing to ignore scripture and then twisting in the wind with their arguments to make them feel comfortable in rebellion…at the end of the day you are unable to rightly divide the Word. Nor do you choose to believe it…again, that is your issue…Not God’s nor the people that follow clear teaching of Scriptures as they cry out against wickedness and heresy. No ‘argument’ is suitable to you because you refuse to acknowledge God and His Word…the written Word and the Word that was made flesh. One day conversations and arguments that you have presented will be replayed for you. As previously stated…God will prove your foolishness to you that you refuse to see now, as is shown in Jude. Until then the Bible also talks about the folly of conversations with people that merely choose to argue against Him….pearls before swine…and that is too bad and very sad. You are not smarter than God but yet somehow you feel you are and above Him in knowledge, wisdom and truth.

    • Rose Ritokoski

      Homosexuality is not the only sin that is written in the bible all sin can and will be forgiven yes there is a consequence for all sin which is spiritual death that came when Adam sinned and the only way to get spiritual life is by excepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour all have fallen short of the glory of God it is about time that gay people are introduced to the love of God.

      • Paul Hiett

        But wouldn’t they have to stop loving the people they love?

        • Susan V Beck

          Define love in this context.

          Do you mean that loving someone means you must have a sexual relationship with them, satisfying your physical desires?

          Or does love mean to desire and strive for the ultimate good of someone you deeply care about, even if this harms or inconveniences you?

          Have you ever read the story of Esau in Genesis? He put his temporary bodily needs and wants above his long-term standing in his family. He sold his birthright as his father’s oldest son … for a bowl of soup. Later, he was very sorry and regretful. But it was too late.

          Esau is a good illustration for gays. I hope and pray that no one will trade in an eternity in the company of a Loving God for a momentary satisfaction of bodily wants. It’s just not worth it. Eternity is a long span for regret …

      • Susan V Beck

        Rose, I think you meant to write, “Accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior,” not “Excepting.” We’re not leaving Him out … we’re receiving Him. I know the two words sound a lot alike, but the difference is important.

        Blessings. 🙂

  • BigHobbit

    You have the right to practice your religion. You don’t have the right to practice your religion on others.

    • Paul Hiett

      But if they’re not allowed to, they claim it’s an attack on Christianity.

    • Susan V Beck

      Hello. Um … this is a Christian Media Site … and the article is about a Baptist College. Baptists are a part of our “religion,” as you put it. So, this is really an “internal matter.” So … why are you on here? Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not asking you to leave, and I’m not trying to be rude, but … what am I missing? We are not on a pro-lesbian site … “practicing” our religion on others. We are minding our own business. Just thought I would point that out. Have a nice day. 🙂

  • Frank

    American Baptist College is definately apostate along with Forrest Harris. The lesbian bishop is no bishop of Jesus but of Satan.

  • Dale Morris Russom

    The Bile says you should not lie with another man as you would with a woman. This is Gd’s word, not man’s. In the end, it will not matter what we do or don’t blieved, it’s what God believes. He stated so in his word. God is a loviing God but he is also a God of wrath. There is a hell for those who disobey him and go their own way. I try to keep myself at home as much as possible and stay away from the tempetations of this world. I don’t need to be around anyone but my family and God. Satan will cause people to get into all kinds of situations that end up costing them a relationship with God. And that is not good.

  • Pat Hines

    Not only are Sodomites an abomination before God, women are expressly forbidden to be pastors, ministers, or priests by the New Testament.

    The upshot of the above is, this school has become apostate and should be closed.

    • Paul Hiett

      Ah yes, women are second class citizens in Christianity.

      I wonder how the women on here feel about that.

      • Peter Leh

        if pat is a woman, then she knows better to speak when not spoken to. 🙂

      • Pat Hines

        Women are not second class citizens within Christianity, however, they have express roles to play, being pastor, minister, or priest isn’t one of those roles.

        1 Timothy 2:12
        “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”

        Timothy, an Apostle, had the complete power granted him by Jesus Christ to make that ironclad rule. Anyone breaking it is apostate.

        • Paul Hiett

          1 Corinthians 34-35
          4Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
          35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
          36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

          This clearly has nothing to do with being a pastor/minister…this only addresses the ability for a woman to say anything inside of a church.

          Exactly how is this not reducing women to second class citizens?

          • Deina

            Don’t forget all the other good things Paul had to say in Timothy

            1 Timothy 5:23
            Stop drinking only water, but have a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

            Sorry, but I’m not taking that advice. We both took the pledge a good many years ago & we’re not going to start drinking again just because of that!

          • Susan V Beck

            Paul, you would have to take into account the context AND the culture to which this was written to understand it. But, that might take away your ammunition, so you might now want to do that.

            As a Christian woman myself, I will tell you, I am not a 2nd class citizen. In Christ I am uplifted, respected, and even protected. I am not considered an object for someone else’s selfish pleasures, which is what much of the world outside of Christ considers women. And I am free to express myself; which is good, because I have much to say.

            Women are more genuinely elevated in Christianity than anywhere else on the planet. Many people only seem to “worry” about a woman’s status when they need a weapon to use against Christianity. Why is that? There are plenty of opportunities to address serious women’s issues of mutilation, trafficking, injustice, and slavery ALL over the world. Be honest. Are you involved in any of them?

            Let’s be real here. Jesus included and elevated women. There are many Scriptures which show the equality and mutual dependance of women and men … but folks tend to ignore those. I urge you to take your own advice about “cherry picking” and take a more balanced look at ALL the Scriptures concerning women in the NT of the Bible. If you have an honest heart … you may be surprised. 🙂

            Blessings.

          • Paul Hiett

            I’m more concerned about the issues here in my own country. And there is no other context in which to take that verse from the BIble, which is why people ignore it all the time.

            Too bad ya’ll don’t ignore other parts of the Bible…you know, the ones that teach people to hate others?

          • Susan V Beck

            So Paul, my friend, do you really believe the Bible teaches people to hate others?

            I suppose we could “cherry pick” and take things out of context to make it look like that. But if we are really interested in the intent of Scripture, and dig a little deeper and allow ourselves to take in the broader scope, we find love rather than hate. Amazing love.

            You know, Jesus doesn’t hate you, and I don’t hate you. If I met you, I would probably like you. Jesus knows you, and He loves you … more completely than anyone else ever has or ever will.

            Please bear with me while I share a metaphor with you. Suppose a man had a diamond he greatly valued. But an enemy stole it and threw it into a sewer. So the man went searching for the diamond. He waded into the stinking sewer, searching … sometimes on his hands and knees. When the man finally found his diamond, he removed it from the filth, thoroughly cleaned it, and took it home to keep it safe.

            Does this man hate his diamond? No, he values it. Does he want to remove it from the filth in which his enemy placed it? You bet he does. Does he want to clean it so it can shine as it was intended to do? Absolutely. Does the man’s willingness to search through filth to reclaim his valuable jewel denote hate? NOT AT ALL.

            You, my friend, are valuable to God. So valuable, that even though there was only one painful and humiliating way in which to free you and reclaim you, Jesus was more than willing to do that which was required. This is not hate. This is amazing, stunning, deep, and touching love. Oh that you could see that which you were created to be! Oh that you could understand the lengths to which Jesus Christ has gone to restore you to this.

            Please just know this … none of us needs to be defined by our sins. We don’t have to stay where the enemy has thrown us … we don’t have to wear any chains with which we are bound. If we could only see these things for what they are! And take the offer that has been so lovingly offered to us …

            Yet, unlike the diamond in the story … we have a choice.

            Blessings. I pray that you will know the love of Jesus.

          • Tammy Saunders

            Preach it sister! 😉 People always like to take one or two verses to make a case, or cause trouble, and they ignore the rest of the Book. Read the whole Bible before telling other people what it says and doesn’t say.

          • KenS

            Let me enlighten you Paul, The culture of the New testament time period, the church members had the men sitting on one side of the church and the women on the other side, and the problem that the Apostle Paul is addressing here was that the women when they did not understand something that the Pastor would say, would yell across the room to their husbands for clarification. Paul addressed this by telling them not to speak in church, but rather ask the husband about it at home, because it was the husband’s duty to instruct his wife on spiritual matters, not the wife’s duty to instruct him.

            The women are allowed to help in decision making of the church during buisness meetings etc.. They are allowed to teach the young boys in sunday school classes, and the young women as the books of Timothy show us.

      • Reason2012

        Hello. A woman not allowed to be preachers in church does not make them second-class citizens.

        Ephesians 5:25 “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;”

        Ephesians 5:28 “So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.”

        In fact, “10th class citizens” or even worse are GREATEST in the Kingdom of Heaven.

        Luke 9:48 “And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.”

        So if we think we are least here and are trying to be least, being a servant to all, we will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven. To teach pride and being great here is wrong of us to do.

        • Paul Hiett

          And again I reference 1 Corinthian 34-35

          • Reason2012

            There are not 34 or 35 chapters in Corinthians. And again I reference how husbands are to give themselves for their wives like Christ gave Himself for us.

          • Paul Hiett

            Yeah, I missed the 14. 1 Corinthian 14:34-35

          • Reason2012

            Yes, women are not allowed to preach in the church. Does this make them second class citizens? Hardly.

  • Russell Leonard

    The other Baptist ministers are calling on the university president to rescind the invitation?!
    They SHOULD be rescind in his employment. You don’t let a lion watch your children; don’t let an atheist run a Christian university. He refers to a first century world view, so clearly he has wormed his way into this position with an agenda. He does not believe in God.

  • upload

    For whatever reason, I cannot get to a reply made to my comment by Deina. I will reply to her here.

    There really isn’t that much difference using the argument made by this woman. It comes down to God’s approval of behavior, and in His eyes, one sin is no different than the other. While you may gauge an enormous difference, He does not. Therefore, my rape analogy is perfectly viable.

    As to your second point, about consenting adults, there is a problem there as well. Just because both parties consent does not make it right or healthy. If my girlfriend consents to my beating her unconscious, does that make it right or healthy? If one person consents to another cutting off parts of his body, is that right or healthy? There any number of behaviors I can describe here that would neither be healthy or moral just because they are between two consenting adults. Many of them are expressly illegal. Do you know the age difference of life expectancy between straight and gay men? About 30 years. That’s how many years are cut from a homosexual man’s life because of physical activities his body is not made for. Just because it is between consenting adults does not make it right or healthy.

    • Paul Hiett

      “That’s how many years are cut from a homosexual man’s life because of physical activities his body is not made for.”

      I don’t even know where to begin to address this ridiculous statement.

      • upload

        Well, you could start by looking it up at the CDC.

        • Paul Hiett

          Do you know what else Cameron claimed about gays? Read up…

          This falsehood can be traced directly to the discredited research of Paul Cameron and his Family Research Institute, specifically a 1994 paper
          he co-wrote entitled “The Lifespan of Homosexuals.” Using obituaries
          collected from newspapers serving the gay community, he and his two
          co-authors concluded that gay men died, on average, at 43, compared to
          an average life expectancy at the time of around 73 for all U.S. men. On
          the basis of the same obituaries, Cameron also claimed that gay men are
          18 times more likely to die in car accidents than heterosexuals, 22
          times more likely to die of heart attacks than whites, and 11 times more
          likely than blacks to die of the same cause. He also concluded that
          lesbians are 487 times more likely to die of murder, suicide, or
          accidents than straight women.

          You should probably vet the things you claim on here before you claim them.

          • upload

            So the CDC went with falsehoods. Easy to claim, I guess, when you don’t agree with itn

          • upload

            And Paul, do you know what else follows this same methodology? Every poll ever. Let’s throw out overt poll that has ever been taken. Just because they approach it this way doesn’t make the information invalid.

      • Deina

        I’ve seen them pull that out once in a while. It’s from a 20 year old study taken at the height of the AIDS epidemic. I think the current numbers are more like four years, but they’re still skewed by old data.

        Just more out of context BS.

    • Deina

      So you’re saying it doesn’t make any difference whether you make love to your wife or rape her.

      Right!

      • upload

        And you accused me of noncontextual arguments. Sheesh.

  • GetHubNub

    Making an idol of God’s Word? That’s the most ridiculous twisted thing I’ve ever heard! God’s Word is one thing you can’t make an idol out of!

  • Reason2012

    “An American Baptist College is defending its invitation to an openly lesbian United Church of Christ minister, asserting that Christians are making an “idol” of the Bible.”

    See how clever it is? You can not only promote open, blatant sin against God, but can even promote it as a good thing by claiming to NOT sin and instead follow God and what He says is “idolatry” (of the Bible) – obeying God is the real sin!

    You can twist this false pastor’s words right back at him and point out how he’s also making the Bible an idol by obeying the command to not have any idols and that we should be able to have idols, even if it’s the Bible!

    “It’s sad that people use religion and idolatry of the Bible to demoralize same-gender-loving people,”

    Yes, to tell others we are not to commit adultery is then a sin, too? So we better commit adultery otherwise we’re guilty of the sin of “idolatry of the Bible”?

    “When people say [the Bible] is synonymous with God and the truth,”

    So the truth comes out: his truth is: the Bible is not God’s Word. He’s worshipping a god who is too weak to preserve his word. That made Jesus wrong as well when He said:

    John 10:35b “… unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;”

    According to this pastor, he knows better than Jesus, and the Word of God did NOT come to these prophets of old, and God’s Word is completely broken.

    Do not be fooled, people – get into a church that is following God’s Word, not into one that has clearly gone apostate from it and that God has clearly abandoned.

    Pray for this pastor that God might lead him back to Christ.

    • Paul Hiett

      Ya know, divorce isn’t allowed either, but I don’t see ya’ll putting up much of a stink over that.

      I wonder why…

      • Reason2012

        Hello. Is the government passing laws to redefine divorce? No. Are activists getting the government to pass laws to redefine marriage? Yes.

        • Paul Hiett

          I think you’re missing the point. Divorce goes against God’s will. Why aren’t you upset that divorce is legal, and work to get it illegal?

          • KenS

            Jesus, gave us the one instance where divorce is legal and this is in cases of fornication, the Apostle Paul also speaks on this and tell us that divorce is also legal when the unbelieving spouse will not let you freely practice your faith. So, you are wrong on this point, Paul

            And my church does speak of the sin of divorce just as much as the sin of homsexuality and adultery, thievery, etc, etc …

          • Reason2012

            I think you’re missing the point: The government cannot get into the religion business, and hence cannot start redefining or enforcing religious institutions like you’re trying to get it do.

  • Jeanie Nelson

    Satan thriving in these churches. He has no problems with them at all.

  • Rev.

    “When people say [the Bible] is synonymous with God and the truth,” Harris responded. “We can’t be guided and dictated by a first-century world view”…
    .Matthew 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17. Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

  • Evangelina Vigilantee

    But He [Jesus] answered [satan] and said, “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'”
    Matthew 4; 4
    By the way, Jesus was not advocating idolatry. Duh…

  • Susan V Beck

    In the Revelation that God gave to the Apostle John, the Risen (and very Mighty) Jesus is sending messages to some churches. He praises them for some things, but tells them about some faults He finds with them.

    To the church of Pergamum Jesus says, (Revelation 2:14-16) “But I
    have a few complaints against you. You tolerate some among you whose
    teaching is like that of Balaam, who showed Balak how to trip up the
    people of Israel. He taught them to sin by eating food offered to idols
    and by committing sexual sin. In a similar way, you have some Nicolaitans among you who follow the same teaching. Repent of your sin, or I will come to you suddenly and fight against them with the sword of my mouth.”

    So, you see … Jesus Christ, Himself … the Risen and Victorious Jesus Christ … is INTOLERANT of those who teach others IN THE CHURCH to commit sexual sin.

    To the church of Thyatira Jesus says, (Revelation 2:20-21) “But I
    have this complaint against you. You are permitting that woman—that
    Jezebel who calls herself a prophet—to lead my servants astray. She
    teaches them to commit sexual sin and to eat food offered to idols. I gave her time to repent, but she does not want to turn away from her immorality.”

    So, Jesus Christ, Himself does not PERMIT anyone to teach those IN THE CHURCH to commit sexual sin.

    This is pretty heavy stuff. But, if you read more of those sections, Jesus gives some pretty stern rebukes and warnings about this.

    Some of you reading this may have a false idea of what the love and grace of God is all about. The goodness and mercy of God does not pat you on the head and condone your sin. Jesus’ love FREES us from our sins and calls us AWAY from our chains. WHY would HE permit or even tolerate people to come into HIS churches and lead HIS people away from Him and back into the sins from which He died to free them?! He would not.

    PLEASE do not fall for these “feel good” messages. They are dangerous traps which will lead you AWAY from your Savior.

    1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 “God’s will is for you to be holy, so stay away from all sexual sin. Then each of you will control his own body and live in holiness and honor— not in lustful passion like the pagans who do not know God and His ways. Never harm or cheat a fellow believer in this matter by violating his wife, for the Lord avenges all such sins, as we have solemnly warned you before. God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives. Therefore,
    anyone who refuses to live by these rules is not disobeying human
    teaching but is rejecting God, who gives His Holy Spirit to you.”

    • TheBBP

      VERY well said. I am sorry that I can only offer one upvote.

      • Susan V Beck

        How kind. Isn’t God good?! Most of that is straight from His Word.

  • Sandy Buchanan

    What about repentance? Seems like so called Christians are picking and choosing and making it up as they go along and loving to be PC! Let them “do their thing”. God will have His way with those who defile His Name.

  • sammy13

    If an Iman can speak in the National Cathedral, I suppose having a Lesbian at a conference pales considerably by comparison.

  • Jeff Tilley

    Another Apostate. I’m walking every day toward the cross of Christ. Will you join me?

  • Jeff Tilley

    Another Apostate. I’m walking every day toward the cross of Christ. Will you join me?

  • Barry O Johnson

    I wonder how graduates of the American Bible College feel about the president saying “It’s sad that people use religion and idolatry of the Bible to demoralize same-gender-loving people” and when he clarified his phrase “idolatry of the Bible” with “When people say [the Bible] is synonymous with God and the truth … We can’t be guided and dictated by a first-century world view”? (John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Pete 1:20-21) Then again, if you don’t believe what God has said these passages won’t matter.

  • Vic Christian

    Well – we certainly know where this school and the American Baptist denomination stands regarding the truth of scripture. For Mr. Harris to say that we cannot depend on the “first century worldview” of the Bible is certainly heresy, and we need to come out and be separate from his and the school’s teachings.

  • Tammy Saunders

    Sounds like it is time the college let Harris go. Seems to me that the church is being infiltrated from within. Harris is an agent of change but not in the right direction. I am all for showing love to gays by sharing the Gospel. I have many friends that were gay and now believers. That is the most kind and loving thing anyone can do for them, or anyone else for that matter. Telling a sick patient they aren’t sick is not an act of love in my book.

  • Steve Slayton

    Nothing else needs to be said. These people can make the Bible say anything they want to. But they need to do A lot of praying and get in touch to the real God about this.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    What an apostate. This school must drop the name “Baptist” or “Christian.” Idolizing God’s Word is impossible; one can never fully obey it enough. It is impossible to have “education, justice, love, life and wholeness” while supporting Sodomy. They are possible only with those who obey God’s Word.

  • Lizzy

    How about Jesus Christ came to save sinners from the looming wrath of God because in unrighteous deception they suppress the truth. There is nothing in the Bible about self-image or self-esteem. We must esteem ourselves sinners completely worthy of the wrath of God as the Scriptures declare and then repent of our sin, stop doing it, and put our faith in Jesus Christ, that He died on the cross for our sins and rose again from the dead. To do less ensures a terrible conscious torment in fiery hell for eternity. Repent and believe the gospel or perish.

  • Lizzy

    This is what happens when the church allies itself with the satanic world system. The agenda of the state becomes the drive of the church.

    https://holdingforthhisword.wordpress.com/2015/03/13/walking-part-two/

  • Bruce Morrow

    “When people say [the Bible] is synonymous with God and the truth,” Harris responded. “We can’t be guided and dictated by a first-century world view.” The words of an apostate folks!

  • Rhonda Renee Albrecht

    Well, Mr. Harris, I would not allow my child to attend your bible college, then. I wouldn’t want my child to partake of a sinful nature that you’re approving of, when it is clearly in the Bible, God’s Word, which is absolute truth, that homosexuality is an abomination to Him.

  • Michael Ellis

    The publication then asked that he clarify his use of the phrase “idolatry of the Bible.”
    “When people say [the Bible] is synonymous with God and the truth,” Harris responded. “We can’t be guided and dictated by a first-century world view.”

    You can only conclude from that statement that Mr. Harris has lost his way. His statement is blasphemous. In his viewpoint, God’s word is not dependable or unchanging, but instead is in flux depending upon political correctness and the situational ethics of the times. Very sad.

  • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau
    • BigHobbit

      Um, no they cannot. Real scientists start without preconceived answers, and work to explanations. Creationists start with the profound idea of the “truth”, and cherry pick their way around inconvenient facts to find what they set out to find.

      They live next door to the flat earth society. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org
      Who are convinced that the bible says the earth is flat, thus they find that the earth is, well, flat.

      • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

        Isaiah 40: Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth? It is He who sits above the circle of the earth. the word “circle” means “sphere Your like many people who insist on making things up….. I think you have the wrong religion, Islam insists that the Earth is flat. And many of their Imams would have you killed if you disagreed. Why don’t you go to Islamic site and talk to them about it.

        https://youtu.be/ih2ks_yx13k

        • BigHobbit

          Haven’t you heard? The earth is flat – Genesis says so:

          http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/

          • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

            Liar

          • BigHobbit

            Shame on you, calling your co-coreligionists liars for their fervent beliefs in the inerrant, literal truth of the bible.

          • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

            Your eternal soul is in danger and you play these childish word games. It is so sad you have given in to your father Satan…

          • BigHobbit

            https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

            1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

            Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm …”

            Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable …”

            Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

            Isaiah 45:18: “…who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast…”

          • http://danbel.webspawner.com Dan Beliveau

            It means fixed in it’s orbit. Your not very good at this. go away

          • BigHobbit

            My point is this – different folks can have very different interpretations of what the bible means. Even beliefs that the rest of us find incredible.

  • http://marklamprecht.com/ Mark Lamprecht

    Ironic, President Harris’ position is actually an admission that Scripture (God) speaks of homosexuality as a sin.

  • Lakeyia Bell

    I am so glad I serve the King of Kings and that He is coming soon. Oweee the Bible is on point and Our Wise King Jesus knows and knew. So let us not get upset saints. The scriptures talk about false prophets, teachers, deceivers in the church, etc. We are witnessing the beginning of the end! We will be with Our Father, and Our King soon enough. Non-believers are non-tolerant towards us, but let’s keep loving on them. God delivered Paul, surely He will deliver others.

  • Cathy Thebeloved

    What we are witnessing is the end time apostasy foretold in the Bible. The true believers must come out from among them. There will be the state sanctioned church which is not of God and the True Church consisting of those born again of God. One is of the flesh. One is of the Spirit. God loves all and died for all but we can only come His Way not our own. They have made their choice. Come out of them.

  • Christian

    It’s the same as Christians supporting abortion (murder). There’s no place for double mindedness in Christianity. I believe that when Jesus returns His judgement will be black and white-not 50 shades or more of gray as many proclaiming Christians are now living. Hmmm, the Bible is printed in black, white and red-coincidence? I think not! We are to love the sinner not the sin, but that doesn’t mean that we invite them in to speak and encourage and promote their sin!!!!!

  • TheMinister1951

    I graduated from an American Baptist seminary in 1977 with an M.Div. degree. Even back then the ABC of the USA was liberal in theology and “progressive” in other moral or biblical issues. Being a young evangelical in my 20s, I initially thought that all “Baptists” were conservative but when I found out they were not, I confronted them in different classes on their biblical leftism and struggled through three years praying to keep my conservatism intact. Some of my professors made fun of my “right-wing beliefs” but there was a “remnant” of true Bible-believers at that seminary where we gathered to pray for one another and to encourage one another to “stand firm in the faith.” Plus, my dear wife would kick me in the butt when she thought I would start to drift into areas of compromise or liberalism. For the most part, I’ve been ashamed of the moral/biblical trajectory of the American Baptist Churches and their leadership. I was an ABC pastor for 21 years and had many confrontations with denominational leadership. I haven’t been an ABC pastor for the last 21 years now but am still an ordained minister. Reading this article did not surprise me in the least. The Great Falling Away continues!

  • Truthhurts24

    They are nothing but wolves in sheep clothing with reprobate minds

  • Gigi

    Obviously this man needs another job, the whole premise of his current job is based on the bible. He has not reading the bible nor respecting it. It says the Holy Spirit will guide you in truth and part of the way he does that is through the bible. The bible is not only relevant it holds power. For example. Isaiah 54:17 – Let no weapon formed against me succeed every tongue that rises up against me be condemned. Without the bible this man is just a man and that college is just a college so this man needs to leave because why is he staying? Go find another college and while you are at it sir please tour the Middle East without a bible what is the difference.

  • Gigi

    No we are not self righteous. We requested christ righteousness because we knew we were not righteous enough on our own. However, you think you are so that makes you self righteous. I promise you that you are not you have lied which makes you a liar, you have probably taken at least a pen from work which makes you a thief. We are just honest with ourselves and realize we cannot be completely righteous on our own which is the whole premise of Christianity. God looks at the heart which is the basis of our entire legal system which is based on what? The bible

  • Gigi

    Man on trial I um will tell the truth see how empty that is there is no accountability to God. Every aspect from the premeditated concept of crime, to the concept of forgiveness, mercy, even reimbursement is based on bible. I was salutatorian of my paralegal class why? Because every single concept was taken from the bible. Syria is not based on bible I strongly suggest you start a college over there, I have a Master’s in Educational Administration and I know for sure the importance of the bible in every aspect of our lives here in the United States. Without the bible you have to depend on mans ability to be perfect, loving and rational. So, let’s get real here that has worked like zero times in history. You have no moral compass without the bible so what do you get without it um??? No moral compass. No reason for not stealing, no reason for not committing murder again I will site Middle East but Boko Haram in Africa is also an excellent example.

  • http://HisPlaceDanville.com Stephen Anderson

    At the beginning of the 20th century Bible believing Christians had to separate from compromised and apostate denominations. It’s time to do that again.
    “Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate,” says the Lord. “And do not touch what is unclean; And I will welcome you. And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,” Says the Lord Almighty. (2Co 6:17-7:1 NAS)

  • Tony Robinson

    A Bible college president that thinks the Scripture is merely a product of a culture instead of being supernaturally breathed words that are profitable for reproof, instruction, et cetera. Like Harvard and Yale, American Baptist College sought to install men into leadership that had established credentials, but without checking the worldview behind those credentials. Harris cannot give something he does not have: the historical Christian view of Scripture and submission to its transcendent authority. The people that put him into power ought to repent.

  • JohnBreland

    Here’s a little paraphrase from that book we “idolize:”

    When the American Baptist College leaders heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? … The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.). . . . After this the American Baptist College types turned back and no longer walked with him.
    John 6:60-66

  • lindywise

    John 1:1

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
    God.2The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and
    without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the
    life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the
    darkness comprehended it not.
    The only way to deal with this is with your dollars. Children should be taken out of this school and money should be returned on the grounds of fraud and religious discrimination.

  • ken

    A lot of the problem here is that the Baptists don’t believe that Christians can overcome sin. They believe that Christians will remain slaves to sin as long as they are in the flesh.