Judge Dismisses Atheist Challenge Against Oklahoma Ten Commandments Monument

Oklahoma Capitol Building pdOKLAHOMA CITY, Okla. — A federal judge in Oklahoma has dismissed a lawsuit filed by a prominent atheist organization that sought to challenge the presence of a Ten Commandments monument in the state capital.

American Atheists, based in New Jersey, had filed the legal challenge on behalf of a woman who complained about its installment on the grounds of the Oklahoma capitol building. The State Capitol Preservation Commission argued that the woman had only seen the monument once and had traveled to the area just to see the display and take offense.

On Tuesday, U.S. District Judge Robin Cauthron, appointed to the bench by then-President George H.W. Bush, agreed with the commission. It ruled that the woman lacked standing to sue as she had not proven that she suffers personal injury from the display’s presence.

This is not the first time that the monument has been challenged in court. As previously reported, in August 2013, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Oklahoma filed suit against the display, asserting that its erection on the grounds of the state capitol building was unconstitutional.

The lead plaintiff was liberal minister Bruce Prescott, the director of Mainstream Oklahoma Baptists. Prescott said that mixing the sacred with the secular in such a manner cheapens the display, and asserted that it violated the Constitution’s Establishment Clause, which says that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…”

In the meantime, a New York-based Satanist group sought to erect an “homage to Satan” near the monument, and other groups chimed in to seek permission to place statues at the location as well.

But last September, Seventh District Court Judge Thomas Prince concluded that the monument served a historical purpose and not solely the presentment of a religious message as it sits on a plot of land that contains 51 other expressive monuments.

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“[T]he Ten Commandments are an important component of the foundation of the laws and legal system of the United States of America and of the State of Oklahoma,” the 2009 bill authorizing the monument acknowledged. “[T]he courts of the United States of America and of various states frequently cite the Ten Commandments in published decisions, and acknowledgements of the role played by the Ten Commandments in our nation’s heritage are common throughout America.”

The display had been proposed by Rep. Mike Ritze in 2009, and was soon after approved by the largely Republican-run state legislature. Ritze paid over $1000 for the display, and no taxpayer funds were utilized in its creation.

American Atheists says that it is disheartened that Cauthron dismissed its suit for a lack of standing.

“We’re surprised and disappointed by this,” Communications Director Danielle Muscato told reporters. “Oklahoma is breaking the law and cannot hide behind standing. This monument remains unconstitutional and we intend to refile.”

But State Attorney General Scott Pruitt issued a statement expressing his satisfaction with the outcome.

“The historical relevance of the Ten Commandments and the role it played in the founding of our nation cannot be disputed,” he said. “I commend Judge Cauthron’s decision to rule in the state’s favor.”


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  • Lorrie

    Unless you are a Fundamentalist with extreme hatred for gay human beings, you are not allowed to comment on this website. My husband John loves Jesus but understands that homosexuality is NOT a sin because a person does not choose their sexuality. He spoke to Michael from Christian News Network and was told Christians, including members of the United Church of Christ, Presbyterian, Episcopal, and other Christians that have an opposing view to their hatred will always be blocked from this site and will all be going to hell. THEY ARE AFRAID OF THE TRUTH AND THEREFORE THINK IT IS BEST TO SILENCE THE TRUTH. A major SHAME on them! John was respectful to others in his comments and was removed, yet a hateful man like Gary is allowed to continue making ugly and disrespectful comments in the false name of Christianity.

    • FoJC_Forever

      Your first phrase is a lie, which makes your following statements a lie as well. Those who love Jesus don’t hate gay human beings, we hate Sin because it is destructive and leads to darkness and death. Those who don’t acknowledge that something is a sin cannot be forgiven and cleansed from that sin. Those who say that God affirms, even created, homosexuality are lying and need to turn to the Truth of God’s Word so they, through Jesus Christ, can be forgiven and cleansed of their homosexuality and their lying about its nature.

      • Paul Hiett

        Did God make all the animals on the planet?

        • Sientje Seinen

          God is the creator of all things great and small, but satan also brought in the tares among the wheat, read the parable of the Farmer sowing wheat and in the morning tares had sprung up among the wheat. satan is God’s adversary

      • Mary Kilbride

        I thought this was a lawsuit by a Muslim? When did it become about gays? People need to keep their focus straight! No wonder we can’t get anywhere.

        • FoJC_Forever

          I was responding to a comment that has since been deleted.

        • Sientje Seinen

          since the ten commandments are given for all people and some are trying to do away with the commandments then we need to look at where the American nation focus is whether it does revere the Lord God of Israel in their hearts or is American becoming more and more a heathen nation.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Americans themselves may be hyper-religious, by and large.

            But America the country is not., never has been, and never will be.

            ‘Heathen’ is so inaccurate and dismissive a word.

            How insulting you are to our fellow citizens …

            … and to the founders of this great nation.

            A nation willing to confront it’s wrongs, and right them, not hide them and perpetuate them.
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            America who is willing to confront its rights and wrongs, you are hilarious, America you say? Only true christians with a good conscience admit they can be wrong at certain times, but not wrong about their faith in Christ that He sealed the new covenant with His blood, for the forgiveness of sin and anyone whom keeps on sinning is mocking Christ suffering, and invoking the Lord to anger, and that by grace we are saved, this is not wrong which needs correcting, but those whom mock Christ suffering are insisting that they are right and everyone else is wrong how can that be a nation of confronting its rights and wrongs, wherewith they heap more wrongs on humanity? by cutting them of from America being blessed for believing in God’s Word?

        • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

          .
          @marykilbride:disqus wrote:

          “… When did it become about gays? People need to keep their focus straight! …”

          Hahahaha!

          Thanks for that.
          .

      • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

        .
        hate … can’t be forgiven … lying … I know where the darkness lies:

        — in the eye of the beholder.
        .

    • TheBBP

      The Bible doesn’t leave the provision where a person can decide that sin isn’t sin simply because they don’t think that it should be a sin.

      • Sientje Seinen

        lololol I think most people would like it to be so or at least make excuses for themselves instead acknowledging that we are of asinfull nature and only by looking to Christ and ask forgiveness of same are we justified before the Lord God, we are saved by grace it is a gift from the Lord God and for this we give thanks

    • KenS

      And this applies to this article how? CNN posting guide states that your posts are to be on topic.

      • TheBBP

        She has spammed this in multiple threads. It is a rant.

  • Tara

    Amen! I get so sick of these people doing this about any and every little thing. Like seriously, is it hurting them? They feel their right to not believe in God trumps the rights of another who does. It’s so arrogant and stories like this are ridiculous! Why spend so much time and energy on trying to take objects away from others, that represent something meaningful to them? It’s like kids. “Hey you, I don’t believe so, you can’t believe or I’m going to take your right away to look upon that cross, or read that bible, because “I” say my rights trump yours”. No amount of energy spent on trying to rid the world of God is going to work. Ever.

    • Paul Hiett

      I wonder how enthusiastic you’d be if the sign was a verse from the Koran.

      • Jean Adams

        Most people would just walk past or give the Koran a meaningful gesture.

        • Paul Hiett

          Based on the comments I read here daily, I think you underestimate the hatred Christians have for Muslims.

          • Mary Kilbride

            Maybe you overestimate it. You may be comparing it with your hatred of Christians.

          • Paul Hiett

            Or maybe I could just link you to one of the articles on this site, and you can read the comments for yourself…

            http://christiannews.net/2015/03/08/michigan-city-unanimously-passes-muslim-based-resolution-against-hatred/

            My favorite comment is :

            Rev Donald Spitz

            2 days ago

            If one disagrees with their demonic religion, they consider that
            hatred. They pass these politically correct sounding laws so anyone who
            criticizes their demonic religion will be charge with a hate crime.

            Ah yes, “demonic” religion. How tolerant that Christian is!!!!

          • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

            Oh so the killing of Christians by Muslims is some sort of mistake?
            Muslims really are tolerant? Everyone not a muslim is not an infidel? Wow. You should fire you public relations people

          • Paul Hiett

            Yeah, I didn’t think you’d see the hypocrisy.

          • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

            I see your hypocrisy. Pointing out how intolerant a Christian is when Muslims are the very pinnacle of intolerance as in killing and beheading of Christians, wanting to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, calling everyone not Muslim, infidels.

          • Paul Hiett

            So much for loving thy neighbor and turning the other cheek, eh?

          • Marvelatthis

            How long are you going to continue this stuff. I mean your everywhere on the Christian News Network but why? I saw your FB page and you looked like a reasonable guy but why would you spend your valuable time arguing a mute point. (When I say mute it means in this context that your just arguing for argument sake. You won’t change a single mind) Your an Atheist (notice the capital letter). Go to eskeptic or McJesus on FB. All your friends are gathered there just waiting for your philosophy. You are such a young bright guy, I can’t figure it out.

          • Paul Hiett

            What’s wrong with engaging Christians regarding modern day issues that affect all of us?

            See, what people like you, and most of the others on here, don’t understand, is that people like me have to exist in order to keep this country from turning into a theocracy.

            Don’t think it could happen? Oklahoma today passed a bill through their House that would limit the ability to issue marriage licenses to clergy only. Yes, I know Christian always claim that their faith is under attack, but I think you folks fail to understand is that it’s the rest of us that have to defend our freedoms from you.

          • Marvelatthis

            What is wrong? Your a grown man. You don’t defend your freedoms against us, because you have the exact same freedoms. You live in the United States. People like you can resist having to come to a Christian site. You have luxuries that I only wish I had. It doesn’t make you a bad guy, but when someone like me who loves Christ hears some of the things that your stating, not only does it hurt, it wreaks havoc. What purpose could that possibly serve? Hurting people isn’t helping anyone, especially you.

          • Paul Hiett

            There’s nothing wrong with hearing the truth from an opposing view point.

          • Marvelatthis

            Here is the Truth Paul:

            Jesus Prays for All Believers

            20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

            24“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

            25“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made youe known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

            Original Greek: Ο Ιησούς Προσεύχεται για όλους τους πιστούς
            20 “Η προσευχή μου δεν είναι γι ‘αυτούς και μόνο. Προσεύχομαι και για εκείνους που θα πιστέψουν σε μένα μέσω του μηνύματος τους, 21 που όλα αυτά μπορεί να είναι ένα, Πατέρα, ακριβώς όπως είστε σε μένα και είμαι σε σένα. Μπορεί επίσης να είναι σε εμάς, έτσι ώστε ο κόσμος να πιστέψει ότι με έστειλες. 22θ τους έχουν δώσει τη δόξα που μου έδωσες, ότι μπορεί να είναι ένα, όπως είμαστε το ένα 23θ σε αυτούς και σε μένα, έτσι ώστε να μπορεί να ασκηθεί για την ολοκλήρωση της ενότητας. Τότε ο κόσμος θα ξέρει ότι μου στείλατε και έχουν τους αγαπημένους τους, ακόμη και όπως μου έχουν αγαπήσει.
            24 «Πατέρα, θέλω αυτές που μου δώσατε να είναι μαζί μου, όπου είμαι, και να δούμε τη δόξα μου, η δόξα μου δώσατε, γιατί μ ‘αγάπησες πριν από τη δημιουργία του κόσμου.
            25 “Δίκαιος Πατέρας, αν και ο κόσμος δεν σας ξέρω, ξέρετε, και ξέρετε ότι μου έχετε στείλει. 26Ι σας έχουν κάνει γνωστό σε αυτούς, και θα συνεχίσει να σας είναι γνωστό, ώστε η αγάπη που έχετε για μένα μπορεί να είναι σε αυτούς και ότι εγώ ο ίδιος μπορεί να είναι σε αυτούς. “

          • Sientje Seinen

            but it isnt truth, your opinions are all based on lies you are ensnared by satan the father of lies.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Again, are you speaking from your own experience there, @sientjeseinen:disqus?
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            I know when a person is lying and you try so hard to defend your own lies that you project them unto me.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            you’re
            .

          • Marvels of life

            Peter are you an English teacher by chance? LOL. Your comments are funny stuff. But thanks for reading and correcting. Now, how about the context of the message? Are you in agreement, or other? It would be enjoyable to discuss with you. Thanks again.

          • MisterPine

            “I think you folks fail to understand is that it’s the rest of us that have to defend our freedoms from you.”

            I wish more Christians could see things that way, but most of the ones I talk to are perpetual victims, even as they attack and fight against giving homosexuals the right to simply fall in love.

          • Sientje Seinen

            There you go it is a lie they lust after strange flesh, it is not love, Love would set the other guy free to live his life with a family and children and not go against the commandment “to honour your father and mother so that thy days may be long in the land the Lord God giveth you.” homosexuals dont live much past forty when they are struck down with aids.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Endlessly asking you back, @sientjeseinen:disqus, in what way are you writing from the authority of your own experience?

            As a Christian?

            As an American?

            As a woman?

            As a human?
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            Now as a christian then I believed but was not totally committed as I did not really know the Lord as I do today as when I did hear His voice I had a yearning in my heart to come to know Him. He does reveal Himself, when you are sincere and acknowledge Him as Lord and redeemer.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Alright then, @sientjeseinen:disqus, than as an American, as a woman, as a human, can you kindly stop lying about others (that AIDS and gays thing)?
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            I cant lie as that also is a sin, I have to tell you the way things happened and I do believe in Christ and since He was sent by God, He cannot lie either, as He is The Truth the Way and the Life.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            I’ll take that as a ‘no’, @sientjeseinen:disqus, that you will continue to lie about AIDS-and-gays.
            .

          • Marvels of life

            Pardon me? You cannot lie? I’m willing to go so far with someone that states they are a Christian but your representing yourself as though you don’t sin. That is false and recognizable. Explain what you mean by the way things happened? Please, we are not perfect. To suggest that we are isn’t a Christian Philosophy. It is a personal philosophy. If you want to state your perspective, it may be more suitable to consider separating your own perspective from Scripture. That way scripture can speak for itself, and you in turn can give your perspective as a personal opinion. Thank you.

          • Sientje Seinen

            where did I say that cannot lie, I said there is one thing the Lord cannot do, and that is lie, As God is truth, why do you twist what i write? I have nothing to do with philosophies, Since Christ is equal with the Lord God, as He was with God at the beginning of creation our Lord Jesus Christ does not lie either, when He spoke these Word, “I am the way the Truth and the Life, No One can come unto the Father except through me,” therefore homosexuals need to acknowledge that Christ was sent by the Lord God of Israel in order for them to come repentance.quit twisting what I write, if you dont understand ask the lord for wisdom from above to give you understanding into His Word.

          • Marvels of life

            refer to my other comment please.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            STOP IT!

            HIV is a heterosexual-sourced disease, spread mostly by heterosexuals, and NO ONE deserves to get sick and die, ever.

            Stop hating, stop lying, @sientjeseinen:disqus.
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            I am not lying why dont you read Romans chapter one, where it speaks of God giving them up, to practice all kinds of uncleanliness among themselves. most homosexuals dont live past forty. it is true though some druggies who share needles are also susceptible to this disease. take care. If you knew the Holy scriptures the Lord’s anger is quickly kindled. beside you mock Christ suffering as He paid the price for these sins of the flesh and those outside the body, to reconcile us to the Lord God of Israel repent and ask for the Lord to create a clean spirit within you.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Do you consult original, authoritative sources, @sientjeseinen:disqus, or merely repeat poppycock propaganda?

            Here from the source, the International Epidemiological Association:

            “… we have learnt of a number of reports regarding a paper we published in the International Journal of Epidemiology on the gay and bisexual life expectancy …

            … it appears that our research is being used by select groups in US and Finland to suggest that gay and bisexual men live an unhealthy lifestyle that is destructive to themselves and to others …

            … These homophobic groups appear more interested in restricting the human rights of gay and bisexuals rather than promoting their health and well being …

            … The aim of our research was never to spread more homophobia, but to demonstrate to an international audience how the life expectancy … can be estimated [ NOT established ] from limited vital statistics data …

            … if we were to repeat this analysis today the life expectancy … would be greatly improved … Deaths from HIV infection have declined dramatically …

            … It is essential to note that the life expectancy of any population is a descriptive and not a prescriptive mesaure …

            … Death … cannot be attributed solely to … sexual orientation …

            … If estimates of an individual gay and bisexual man’s risk of death is truly needed for legal or other purposes, then people making these estimates should use the same actuarial tables that are used for all other males in that population …

            … Gay and bisexual men are included in the construction of official population-based tables and therefore these tables for all males are the appropriate ones to be used

            … In summary, the aim of our work was to assist health planners with the means of estimating the impact of HIV infection on groups, like gay and bisexual men, not necessarily captured by vital statistics data and not to hinder the rights of these groups worldwide …

            … Overall, we do not condone the use of our research in a manner that restricts the political or human rights of gay and bisexual men or any other group …”
            __________

            Show some respect for the truth, @Sientje Seinen, for the authority of the origin of the information and people about which and whom you spread lies.

            Stop it.
            .

          • Marvels of life

            You may want to also read the following Chapter in Roman’s, where Paul explicitly states, do not judge others. It’s not our responsibility as Christians to do so. Share Jesus love instead.

          • Sientje Seinen

            Christ spoke these words “Judge not lest ye be judged” are you afraid of being judged Marvels of life? Did He not also say
            “Judge with righteous judgment? as did you not judge my comment when you answered me? It is our responsibility to tell others of the saving grace which is in Christ, you cannot keep the Light of Christ hidden under a bushel, and to condone sin, is not love Is Christ an agent of sin?

          • Marvels of life

            I hope I didn’t. If I did I sincerely apologize. I’m not a person that wants to judge anyone. I believe I have to look at myself in the mirror and make sure I live according to the will of Jesus.

            13The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”
            14Jesus answered, “Even
            if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I
            came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from
            or where I am going.
            15You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.
            16But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.

            We have the tendency to judge by human standards, but Jesus states he passes judgment on no one. But if he does judge, his decisions are true. Not ours. We are not righteous in our judgements because we are human beings. Christ is God, therefore he has the power of judgement at the time designated for him to do so. His love overpowers our judgement of others. Notice he doesn’t put a condition on his love. We are to plant the seeds of the word of God, and live a life that shows we belong to Christ. I don’t feel that we are capable of “righteous judgement” but I do believe that Paul had the authority to do so and Peter. They were teaching the church’s how to work together for good.

          • Sientje Seinen

            you dont understand do you. the pharisees were judging Christ that He bore witness of Himself, am I a pharisee, I listen to the Word which Christ speaks which He tells us, “If you do not believe I am He, you will die in your sins” or Fear God who has the power to cast ye into hell.” So is the Lord not also speaking to homosexuals when He speaks these Words? so we try to reveal that the Lord gave His life for them to repent and turn back to the Lord God, to inherit eternal life, So that is love of for our fellowmen so that they will not perish, your love is selfish as you do not wish them to know about Christ suffering for them, and if they keep on sinning they do mock our Lord and saviour

          • Marvels of life

            Maam, I do understand. I would like to refer to the NIV application study Bible. Putting things into a contextual framework. I do not have a quarrel with your belief system and for some reason, you may think that I do. Let me share with you if I may the context of the point in Romans.
            Understanding the message:
            “Paul portrays the inevitable downward spiral into sin. First, people reject God. Next, they make up their own ideas about replacements for God. They come to hate God and encourage others to do the same. When people reject him, God does not cause it, God allows them to proceed with their behaviors to experience the circumstances of their sin. As they progress downward in sin, even against their own bodies, they cannot pull themselves out of that progression except through Christ himself. When we desire the creature over the Creator we become less than the creature. We lose site of our own selves when we exclude our Creator from all things since we become irrelevant. That is not the vision that God had in mind. The people Paul refers to choose to reject God. And God allows them to do so. He will let them declare their so called freedom, so that they become slaves to their own rebellious behaviors.”

            It is important to distinguish our role as Christians, and the role that Christ’s message means. Paul was an instructor to the new Church’s of Rome, Corinth, Galatia, the Thessalonions and other ‘Gentiles’ and ‘Jews’ as he was called to do. That is why he instructs the church of Rome in this manner:
            “God’s Righteous Judgment

            1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

            5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”a 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.”

            You notice that Paul covers everything that the Roman church had been doing before they converted to Jesus Christ. I for one hold no ill will toward anyone. They have their own struggles just as we as Christians do.

            You may also want to consider the instruction concerning the culture at that time. One being that women should cover their heads. Women should be submissive to their husbands. Corinthians provides many feelings of Paul related to the church even stating not to sue one another but to resolve any issue personally with a witness. There was much infighting going on at that time, and Paul wanted to write letters of instruction and constructive criticism that the new churches would better understand how to work together for good.

            I believe that is what holds us together as Christians. Showing our love for any and everyone that we can as Jesus did. We must let go of our bitterness, and the things Paul said in order to share the Agape love that God has for his creation. I do not wish to argue. I don’t wish to condemn anyone because for me personally it won’t help and likely will hurt. Just as I love you as a believer in Christ, I can also love the person that may sin because I’m no greater than another. That is because I’m a sinner as well. I hope you understand that I have no issue with you. I’m sure you are a good person. Have a blessed day.

          • Sientje Seinen

            and paul mentions that you have no excuse you who pass judgment on someone else I agree with that, but since I do not partake in homosexual relationships I have the right to point out that the Lord God calls its an abomination and that they mock Christ suffering on Calvary is this not why He gave His life to call everyone to repentance? Does Peter not tell us that “to turn someone from the error of his ways, save a soul from death and covers a multitude of sins? are we to stand idly by and let them perish? as Christ and the Father are One, then Christ would not approve of Homosexuality as then He would be also disobedient to God’s commandment written in Leviticus, remember Christ said “think not that I came to abolish the law but to fullfill the law. It is by turning to Christ and being sorry for our sinfullness that we receive forgiveness. And remember this saying “Evil flourishes when good man stand by and do nothing.” May the Lord help you to understand His Word and give you insight and understanding in same

            I also agree we are all sinners, as paul mentions “for all of sinned and come short of the glory of God” but since I have come to know the Lord God of Israel, through Christ my Lord and saviour, I believe I have been forgiven and received redemption through the blood of Christ. Should I then not give glory to His Name and help others to come to know Him also, Why would you not tell those who are flaunting their sins about the saving grace which is in Christ? unless you are not sure He has forgiven all your debts?

          • Marvels of life

            I’m working to bring this conversation into one thread if possible.

          • Sientje Seinen

            marvels of life if you want share the love of Christ are you able to cast out demons,as homosexuals are ensnared by satan, and telling them about the grace which is in Christ if for us to throw them a life line. your love is condoning their sin, making Christ an agent of sin.

          • Marvels of life

            As for me personally, no I am not able to cast out demons. You certainly have your opinion and that is fine with me. I have to disagree with you when you say love is condoning sin. If that were the case Jesus would not have said “forgive them, they know not what they do” He would not have spoken with sinners and said, “47“If
            anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that
            person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
            48There
            is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the
            very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. It is these very words that I live by. I do not judge the world because I cannot be that judge. Only Christ when he returns will be the Judge of our actions. When Jesus makes it plain that he came to save the world, please know that is exactly what he mean’t. Loving another does not condone sin. It elevates one to the message of Christ. I don’t believe in your analogy. But, that is just me and my personal relationship with Jesus. I suspect that if he wants the message he explains to change, it will be revealed to me in a formidable way. Thanks for your perspective however.

          • Sientje Seinen

            and why would Christ also say these Words, “If you do not believe I am He, You will die in your sins” and so unless people acknowledge that Christ is the Holy One of Israel, the Messiah who came to redeem us, and do not forsake their sins, but keep on sinning, isnt that the same as denying that Christ is the saviour of the World?

          • Marvels of life

            I believe I’ve addressed this issue above

          • Sientje Seinen

            no it is not Aids is spoken of in the gospel to the Romans where Paul speak out against Homosexuality why dont you read it, It is Romans chapter one. ask the Lord to give you guidance in this, it is a disease of homosexuals, bisexuals and those druggies that share needles.

          • Marvels of life

            Again your fine tuning your argument to represent only “Homosexuality” Paul covered in those verses many things not just sexual orientation. I’m not sure and forgive me for being blunt, but it seems you prefer to argue and belittle. I can tell you I’m not fond of the method by which your ‘supporting Christ’. “Darkness in you” is a personal attack against a person. It’s as if you know that person, and obviously you do not. I hope you can learn to discuss issues without personal attacks, but with sharing love, hope, and the fruits of the Holy spirit. If you are not a sinner, by all means through those stones. However if you are a sinner, Christ came to the world not to judge, but to save the world. Please, I ask that you consider a different approach when speaking about our Lord and Savior. It’s a big responsibility to take on, and as followers of Christ the message that he gives outweighs every other perception we may or may not have.

          • Sientje Seinen

            have mercy lady, since homosexuals mock Christ sufferng I am to show them the love of Christ Of course I do, I tell them they are mocking the Lord God whom sent Christ to redeem them with His blood, where do you get off by telling me how I should speak to a homosexual? you want me to tell them, it is okay what they do, that Christ loves them, Of course He does, He calls them to repentance like He does you and me. You really believe that the Lord God is not provoked to anger by them flaunting their sins down our streets? Do you know that the Lord is able to withdraw His blessings on those whom mock Christ great suffering, and those whom condone same. tell me how you would speak to a homosexual, You seem to have no trouble judging me, Does paul not say that fornicators, liars cowards, effiminates will not enter into the kingdom of God. Christ message is Repent, and turn to Him for the forgiveness of sins, and be circumcized within your heart.

          • Marvels of life

            To narrow our discussion to one area please look at my comment and questions.

          • MisterPine

            That is nuts. Homosexuals live as long as everyone else – what is your source of information? Of course they fall in love.

          • Sientje Seinen

            they dont fall in love, the follow the desire for strange flesh in their hearts, that is not love that is lusting for someone of the same gender. statistic prove that they die of Aids at very young age the disease that strikes homosexuals and druggies whom exchange needles you could also fall in love with your car, your material goods, so that is why it is called lust, as it is not the love the Lord God pours into our hearts to Love the Lord God with all your heart mind and soul, and to not slander your neighbor, to speak the truth with one another, and not to put a stumbling block in front of your neighbor telling him he does not need to repent as we are all sinners in need of repentance the reason christ came to save us from satans power who goes and deceives people as he is the father of lies.

          • MisterPine

            Boy is your information ever wrong. Back in the 1980s maybe AIDS was “the gay disease” but these days it is straight black females at the greatest risk. get your information from a science book and not from a crazy person.

          • Sientje Seinen

            because their husband cheat with another man or woman and come back home and give the disease to the poor woman who is innocent of coveting

          • Marvels of life

            How would you know such things as your beginning statement. Did you
            experience a relationship to explain there is no love involved.
            Lust is a sin by the very nature of looking upon a woman as a man as
            well. Your doing the very thing you take exception of. Putting
            stumbling blocks in the way of your neighbor. Christians know we must
            repent of our sins, and we must be servants of Christ. That means we
            should not be presenting ourselves as being above others. Only Christ
            is above all. Truth as you state it comes directly from Christ. Not
            from our perspective. It saddens me to see this type of approach when
            representing God. I know I’m a sinner, and I know that God loves me
            enough to forgive me when I do sin. It is when we are the most lowly
            that we inherit the gifts of the Holy Spirit, not the other way around.
            Jesus said the Great of this world will be the least in his kingdom,
            and the least will be the greatest in his kingdom. That is what
            Christians must understand, or we are hypocrites. That is the truth.

          • Sientje Seinen

            that is if you belong to Christ as one those who believe in Him,as the disciples were quarrelling among themselves, and said “Unless you believe like a little child, you cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven, a little child trust their parents. So we as christians put out trust in the Lord God of Israel and Christ Jesus whom He sent.

          • Sientje Seinen

            excuse me, I am not representing God, Christ is the one whom was sent by God to call the House of Israel to repentance. I am only stating what the Holy scripture tells us that without believing in Christ and believing on Him and His Word there is no forgiveness of sins, as we are sealed with His blood into the new covenant written in Jeremiah 31 vere 31. There is no other way, As Christ regained the keys to heaven and hell. the reason He said “I am the way the Truth and the Life, NO ONE can come unto the father except through me,” should we not then pass the message of salvation onto others, when the Lord God himself seals us with His holy spirit when we acknowledge our sinfulness and ask forgiveness in the name of Christ with a broken spirit and humble in our hearts?

          • Marvels of life

            I have a few questions if I may. It will assist me in understanding your persistence.

            1. Do you cover your head during worship. The Bible states that a woman’s glory is her hair.
            2. In your household is your husband the head of the household. Are you submissive to him?
            Before I ask the next question let me post scripture:
            34Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own
            husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
            3. Do you consult your husband before presenting information about God? When two or more are gathered together Christ is with us. The ‘church’ could be a representation of this conversation.
            4. You have made an assumption that because of my love for people I support sinful behavior. It has been said more than once that Christ does not hate the sinner, specifically he hates the sin. By your assumption would you recant your description of me on a personal level? I do not hate anyone and I don’t condone sin. However that is irrelevant to the matter of Love, because remembering having faith, hope, and love, the greatest of these is love, does not prevent me from loving anyone.
            5. You have stated twice now that I have judged you. I apologized for that immediately, but have come to see that your using the statement to judge me. I don’t have the desire to judge anyone including you. Your certainly have your perspective and I have mine. What I observe from your comments is the possibility that you want to argue your position. Some might call it pushing your agenda down people’s throat for your own benefit. It sounds like I’m being cruel, but I’m not. I’m trying to point out things to you in the Bible that cause you to think. I certainly care about you as a Christian sister. That you can be assured of.
            6. What denomination are you? This is important because it provides information about who you are as a person, and where you are coming from in your perspectives.

            Answer these questions if you will. If not, this conversation should end because our approach is not the same and I’ve pointed that out. It will benefit no one to continue unless your brave enough to provide some information I can possibly identify with. If you want to continue this discussion I would be willing only if your willing to answer these questions. Thank you and have a great day.

          • Sientje Seinen

            boy you are nosy arent you. Yes I even went and bought a hat today. I love wearing a hat to church. and yes my husband was the major decision maker in my household, but since he has passed on now I am. I dont speak from the pulpit in the church and go where we do not have women ministers, as I dont believe a man is going to take disciplinary measures from a woman. and a healthy church does have disciplinary measures in place. Since it is in the church we gather to worship the lord, we do respect the sanctuary. since it is the person whom commits the sin, he then becomes a sinner does he not? therefore the person whom commits a sin is seperated from God, as God and sin cannot walk together. Therefore as Christ said “I am the way the Truth and the Life, No One can come unto the Father except through me,” it follows that one needs to come near to Christ and ask forgiveness of his/her sins, to be forgiven of same, as the Lord God then forgives our trespasses if we are truly repentant and sincere, He forgives solely because of Christ’s redemptive work, if they do not repent, or turn to Chris then they mock Christ suffering on Calvary and provoke the lord God to anger, there is only one way to receive forgiveness of our transgression as Christ has shown us with His Word. I am a member of the canadian reformed congregation, I used to belong to the United church which ordained homosexuals but I since I spoke out against same was sort of tossed out of that church, not sorry either, as the United Church of canada has surely gone by the wayside. God bless you take on too many assumptions about me.

          • Marvels of life

            That is outstanding! Have a blessed day and may God be with you on your journey with Christ!

          • Marvels of life

            I am one that will not attack you personally, but your right, there are those who do. The issues are complex but I believe in caring for people and I believe in love. I think that is what Jesus would want me to do.

          • Sientje Seinen

            what freedoms are you talking about list them please, as you have the same freedom as us, except you try to force your ideas of freedom on us.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            moot
            .

          • getstryker
          • getstryker

            dfz,vw[wprp334

          • getstryker

            And there you have it folks . . . the ‘intolerant, uninformed, undiscerning, un-contextual and inaccurate blather’ of someone trying to ‘cherry-pick’ verses from the Bible to justify his point and failing miserably at it . . .

          • Sientje Seinen

            Ok give me any passage of the Bible and I will try to open up the Word of God for you as you need to come with a believing heart, an open mind, and ask for wisdom from above, and understanding to have the Word come into your heart and cleanse it from wicked desires.

          • getstryker

            John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not. parish. but have internal life.

          • Sientje Seinen

            I like the passage in John 3:16 but I think you have some spelling errors, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish but inherit eternal life” very nice but parish is a catholic congregation and internal is something inside a person. God bless hope you are not offended by pointing out these errors.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            There are more than 1,000+ other translations.
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            that is true, the roman catholic church has their own, not my kind, which is biassed to make sure that the roman catholic church is given the glory instead of God sending Christ who was the Word who came to dwell among the people and made the Lord God Israel known to us. there are many Bibles some bias shown by the author, I stay with the authorized King James version, it is special to me.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Funny, you decry man’s influence over your Bible, preferring the King James’ version instead of the Pope‘s version, @sientjeseinen:disqus — do you not see the whimsical irony in that?

            Back to the 10 Commandments … in a country where most folks can’t even cite their own 10 Amendments (the Bill of Rights for those who need guidance).
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            ha but there you have it, you dont understand, when you accept Christ and acknowledge Him as your redeemer whom can change your heart to worship the Living God, then the Lord God writes His commandments on your heart and mind, as then you are conformed into the likeness of Christ and become a child of God, only through believing on Christ and His Word, can we be reconciled to the Lord God, not through the roman catholic church but God forgives us our trespasses only for the sake of Christ redemptive work at Calvary where He defeated the works of the devil. believe and be saved.

          • getstryker

            You are correct: “Parish” is a Catholic term.
            However, the word in the verse I referenced is: “Perish” (in this context, it means) “to suffer spiritual death”

          • Guest

            aiekjv4543kv;’a

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            @sientjeseinen:disqus, you must not be a Roman Catholic Christian, where women are incapable of interpreting Scripture.
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            No of course not, I dont believe in all that idolatry of worshipping Mary and praying to saints who have since passed over. Since Mary was Jewish maiden and give praise and glory to the Lord God of Israel, not the roman catholic church which wasnt even in existence, and Mary was an instrument that Christ chose the lowly womb to make His entry into the world.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            @sientjeseinen:disqus wrote:

            “… instrument … lowly womb …” ? ! ?

            Ouch!

            You are more Roman Catholic than you think (oh, that’s funny when about a woman!).
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            well the womb is part of woman’s body, where you also were created, it wasnt you mother who created you in the womb But since Christ chose the lowly womb, (what would you call it?) to make His entry here on earth, He left His heavenly place to come and dwell among us sinners, to make the Lord God of Israel known to us. No am not catholic dont like the pope, and dont believe he is anymore holy than I am.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            “… lowly womb, (what would you call it?) …”

            (a) I wouldn’t call ‘it’ anything because I ain’t got one.

            (b) I certainly would NEVER call ‘it’ lowly or instrument.

            You’d have to explain if you have alternative meanings of those words — they’re pretty denigrating of women as mere OBJECTS.

            So I suggest that you drop those words as a show of a little respect to let each person have their own pride and confidence in their worth and value, please, @sientjeseinen:disqus?
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            :Lets put it this way then Mary was a vessel, whom was chosen to fullfill a prophesy written in Isaiah 14 verse 7, that a young maiden would bear a child. is this plainer and so yes Christ chose the lowly womb, to fullfill that prophesy. I am a woman and dont feel degraded by calling the womb lowly. we certainly dont adore our wombs or pay homage to it. It is how God created us as women.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Eww.

            You have GOT to toss that misogynistic Bible thingy of yours and start reading women’s stories of women, for women, by women, @sientjeseinen:disqus.

            You have a lot of crap to expunge.

            Start with imagining Mary having AGENCY in the plot, in the scheme of things, being fully equal to all others in the stories you read about her.

            Try it.

            You might like it.

            It couldn’t hurt.
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            actually like I said Mary was a prophesy being fulfilled she was of the royal line of David, as David was King of Israel, Now Christ is our Lord and King, whom will come and gather all those whom He has elected.

          • Sientje Seinen

            well when you come and before the throne of mercy and ask the Lord for understanding and insight into His Word, He wont upbraid you, as He is also steadfast in love towards those whom revere Him in their hearts. You can ask Him to open up the Holy scriptures for you if you come with a believing heart, an open mind and a reverence for His Word.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Your Lord is steadfast in love towards those who revere him in their hearts, eh, @sientjeseinen:disqus?

            Does your Lord not love all equally?

            Our US Constitution lays out an American credo where all are equal, endowed by their creator with unalienable rights.

            I like that much better than your Bible.

            I’m beginning to understand modern sources of narcissism.

            And the desperate need to loosen the tether to an inappropriate Bible.

            You know, the Bible used to justify the slave trade, subjugation of women, children, the poor, people of color, the handicapped, indigenous peoples, and every minority of any stripe.

            Good riddance to that kind of fear turned hateful bigotry.

            Please keep your sick Bible to yourself.

            If your Jesus has any power, let it be through your actions in love from your own heart, not in your whacking others with someone else’s bible, certainly not authored by your Jesus.
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            tether to an inappropriate bible, I lived in Quebec a roman catholic province of Canada where I tried to purchase a bible, they only sell roman catholic bibles, which has extra books, see I was searching at that time. I did not mind it, I did read it, but did not understand some of it. then the Jehovah witnesses came along, whom were dissatisfied with the roman catholic church and had become Jehovah witnesses, I am telling you the truth they came a couple of times and sold me a bible. the only thing is everytime I tried to open it, Such a terrible fear came upon me, that I could not read it. Then finally we moved out west and I stopped at Bibles for mission and the first thing I saw was the most beautiful Bible and of course authorized by King James and this Bible speaks to me, now if others prefer different Bibles I am not saying they should like the one I like. But I felt at home with this one. as it speak to me. and I have the right to choose which Bible I like to read, unless you are also trying to take that freedom away from me?

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Are you referring to @sientjeseinen:disqus who disbelieves in turning the other cheek because it’s too hard, and the other guy, those pesky Muslims (most of whom are peaceful and living in Western cultures) well, they are just not backing down!?!
            .

          • getstryker

            No, the comment I made was in reference to the exchange between these two: Paul Hiett – Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla • 5 days ago
            “So much for loving thy neighbor and turning the other cheek, eh?”

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Disqus is one of the better thread organizers, but it makes accurate quoting in responses difficult, and threads still get tied in knots.

            Thanks for your clarification, @getstryker:disqus.
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            lol you mean you want us to turn the other cheek, how when they are busy cutting of our heads? you take the cake.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Right, the Scripture reference is discardable when you feel like it.

            They call your type “salad bar” Christians because you take only what you want from the wisdom literature, @sientjeseinen:disqus.

            You forgive yourself the sin of not turning the other cheek when you feel impatient and unbelieving.

            But you make no equivalent forgiveness for others who likewise are on an imperfect path to their own personal salvation.

            Hypocrisy much?
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            now you are trying to make an image of me, whichyou believe I am, which is not true, I dont forgive myself the sin, I confess my sins but sometimes the Lord brings up hidden sins, which I dont even know about, but when I am sincerely repentant in Christ He does remove them as far as east is from the west. He sets us free from the bondage of sins. If they have not done anyting against me, there is nothing to forgive, if they hurt me in any, if they turn to me and ask for forgiveness, then why should I not, as Christ also forgave me, but if they do not ask I do pray for them to repent but still the Lord did tell us. :”Vengeance is mine, I shall repay, and in that we also have comfort when we are called names, malaligned, etc.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Comfort in vengeance, forgiveness only when asked.

            . S . a . l . a . d . . b . a . r .
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            seeing the Lord is just why would you not give your life over to Him and know that He will fight for you when you are harmed or defrauded or oppressed as He is comfort to those who are sorrowing and have been hurt by those whom do not know the true and Living God whom christ has made known to us.Do you really believe a christian should run after someone who has hurt them and ask them for forgiveness? they would only laugh that is why we give things over to the Lord, as we know He is our defender.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Comfort in fighting?

            Please, stop, @sientjeseinen:disqus, you keep picking from the salad bar, while criticising others, your God’s children all.
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            But once again that is not true we are not all children of God, there are the children of disobedience and the children of obedience, why do you suppose the Lord said “Jacob I loved but Esau I hated” and why did Jesus our lord say “have I not chosen you twelve and one of you is a devil?” satan can transform himself into an angel of light. and here is another thing our Lord said “I saw satan falling from heaven having great wrath.” Have you even read the Holy scriptures? It is full of treasures,

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Ewww!

            Do you not recoil in disgust at that self-serving human writing in your Bible, @sientjeseinen:disqus?

            Put that book down, it’s fears, hate, and violence are not serving you well.
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            It is the story of mankind of disobedience toward the lord and being sent out of paradise, and since the Lord does not lie and does not break His Word, death and sin came into the world. It a story of God trying to bring back His people to listen to Him through Christ our lord, as God’s love is manifested in Christ who bought us with His blood. It is story of redemption from the pit and from the gates of hell. Peter why do you bother answering me, if you only want to force your own opinion on me?

          • Sientje Seinen

            Do you believe a christian should run after the person that has hurt them and ask them for forgiveness? they would just laugh at us and we are not to take vengeance either as the Lord said “Vengeance is mine I will repay” it is a comfort to us, knowing the Lord’s eye is over all.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Why is vengeance a comfort to you, @sientjeseinen:disqus?

            And, no, the victim wouldn’t run after their attacker to ask their attacker for forgiveness.

            The scenario was the victim withholding forgiveness until their attacker asked for forgiveness.

            I was wondering why you think forgiveness isn’t something you wouldn’t experience regardless of your Lord or any attacker asking?
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            it takes sometimes a long time, as you could forgive knowing that Christ forgave us, but the hurt takes a long time to heal, most of us know for our own sake it is better to leave it with the Lord, and let Him deal with it, and to go on in life, instead of becoming bitter and wanting revenge, as the Lord has more wisdom on dealing with some things than I or you have.Also we have to be honest and ask ourselves if we had any part in what happened, and that is why we lay it before the Lord.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            So … vengeance is or isn’t on your mind, @sientjeseinen:disqus?
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            Not now, but I cant vouch how I would react if someone attacked one of my children. I think of one time during the second world war I was only child and one of the nazis entered our home, it was just my mother and I, I belIeve I was around six or seven years old, when I thought he might attack my mother I was ready to kill him, it was a very tense situation, but I think somehing spoke to him, because he didnt say a word just turned around and left, see the Lord does defend the defenseless

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Did you just prove his point for him?

            Thanks.
            .

          • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

            Another Johnny come stupidly

          • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

            What is more pathetic than having to “like” your own comments.

          • getstryker

            Oh no, NOT tolerance Mr. Hiett . . Rev. Spitz ‘INtolerance’ is based on the Jihadist ‘actions’ . . the good Reverend is, from a ‘bible-based spiritual standpoint’, absolutely correct. Is Reb. Spitz not entitled to hold beliefs contrary to your own? Is he not able to express his beliefs, just as you are? Tell me Mr Hiett . . . what do you think motivates the average Jihadist to do what they so proudly proclaim, video tape and display to the world? In terms of ‘actions motivated by love or hate’ . . . how would you compare the general motivation behind Christianity and militant Islam? Who demonstrates ‘love’ and who demonstrates ‘hate’? IMO – Rev. Spitz comments above are ‘right on!’

          • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

            You mean Paul, versus what muslims feel for Christians?

          • Paul Hiett

            How would your Jesus feel about you making that comment?

            What do you think he would say to you?

          • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

            He would ask you the same thing. You are the one accusing and condemning here. He would say, “Remove the plank from your own eye before attempting to remove the splinter from another’s.”

          • Paul Hiett

            I’m simply pointing out the facts, which you don’t seem to care for.

          • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

            Paul you’re not putting out any facts. When someone refutes what you say or gives any other view, you’re not having it. You don’t just hate Christians, you hate anyone who won’t agree with you or can’t agree with you. You don’t even really present arguments, just non-sensical statements. So really there’s no point in conversing any further.

          • TheBBP

            Paul doesn’t want discussion, he wants to hate and troll. Let’s stop giving him attention.

          • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

            Remove the plank from your own eye before attempting to remove a splinter from another’s.

          • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

            YOU asked me what MY Jesus would say. I told you. It’s you that doesn’t like facts.

          • Sientje Seinen

            Jesus would tell you to repent and “to fear God who has the power to cast ye into hell”

          • getstryker

            Christian hatred for Muslims??? No – Not specifically ALL Muslims – just the actions of the violent ones. How many videos have you seen with Christians cutting Muslim throats?? How many women raped, children killed, men and women beheaded or shot by Christians? For anyone here to express a disapproving opinion based on direct observation of those actions seems totally justified to me. If there is ‘hatred’ . . . it is aimed against those actions.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Oh how blind are, we who refuse to see, @getstryker:disqus:

            I’ve seen hundreds of thousands of videos of Christians slitting Muslim’s throats, scenes of bloody horror captured on the original Sony video cam released in the period 1095 to 1291 … oh, no videos from back then: nobody expects the Christian Crusades!

            Do you forget 2014 and the Muslims, especially children, targeted by Christian anti-balaka gangs in the Central African Republic, reducing the population of Muslims to one tenth of their original numbers through murder and exodus under pressure and fear for their lives?

            As @sientjeseinen:disqus might say, how can we turn the other cheek when the Muslims are so pesky?!?
            .

      • Tara

        You’re assuming you already know how enthusiastic or not I’d be, however, rights are rights. Atheists like this merely want to take things away from other people because of their UNbelief. Why are some so arrogant to think that their UNbelief trumps the beliefs of another? It doesn’t. Pretty simple.

        • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

          .
          It’s not about belief or unbelief — for example, you UNbelieve what atheists believe, I presume.

          It’s about we-the-people’s self-governance breaking the edicts we-the-people gave it to not establish any religion — we said the government should stay out of it.

          Your problem with that?
          .

          • Sientje Seinen

            actually it is the lord who decides as the earth is the Lord’s and all that is in it.” you have no right to do away with His commandments, as you are not greater than He is, and your wisdom is not the same wisdom as from above, so If the Lord chooses to elect a people for Himself, you are not the one to be able to stop Him from doing so. Repent

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            The Lord doesn’t vote, and would only have one vote if he did, just like the rest of us (except Catholics believe God might have three votes if the Father, and Holy Spirit, also registered in any political territory).

            You confuse how we all get along here, and your own, private, personal faith and hope for an afterlife, @sientjeseinen:disqus.
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            You dont understand, first I dont believe like the roman catholics, God is the creator of the universe, Christ was with the Lord God at the beginning of creation. therefore it is written “Let us make man into our image.” notice plural. Christ was co-creator, Adam and eve fell from grace, lost communion with God and sin and death came into the world. Christ came to deliver us from being in bondage to sin, and to destroy the works of the devil, i.e jealousy, hatred, covetousness, murder, etc. as now since Adam’s fall from grace, wickedness lies deep in the hearts of mankind. It was this wickedness in mankind that put Christ on the cross, and He sealed the new covenant with His blood, according to Jeremiah 31 vere 31, therefore in christ we are a new creation, whom can cleanse our hearts of wicked desires and evil thought, and conform us into His image becoming once again children of God and commune with Him through christ our Lord. Amen God bless His Holy Name in whom we find peace. not trying to throw the whole Bible at you at once.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Thanks, @sientjeseinen:disqus, but your Bible is meant for you, not me (and visa versa) — no need to even share any of it with me.

            In the meantime, we get along, at least in the US, voluntarily by our Constitution, and by our wisdom literature from our founders on down through case law and contemporaneous writing.

            On point (of this thread), some Christian’s “10 Commandments” have nothing to do with our founding documents or Constitution, the supreme law of the US.

            For them to be displayed in any form becomes some Christian’s religious choice inflicted by everyone’s self-governance, and therefore illegal.

            Now, if you wanted to put up an historical presentation with the TWO DOZEN ancient ‘commandments’ in comparative study throughout ancient history, TOTALLY UNRELATED to US law, have at it.

            Some Buddhist ten-thousand-way studies would also be appropriate, and, oddly, probably more like our laws than some Christian’s 10 Commandments!

            Ready to learn?
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            No because I know what will happen, once the Lord turns his back on America, you are opening up a pandora’s box, it wont be safe for anyone, as the Lord is also able to take away His Holy spirit which still restrains some of you, but once the Holy spirit is taking away, then upon whom will you call, when the heavens are closed against you. And when the Lord returns, to wreak vengeance upon those of you who mock Christ suffering where will you hide. As Isaiah tells us in the Holy scriptures “Seek the Lord while He may yet be found,” does that not infer to you that there will come a time where He no longer can be found?”

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            @sientjeseinen:disqus wrote: “… No because I know what will happen, once the Lord turns his back on America, you are opening up a pandora’s box, it wont be safe for anyone, as the Lord is also able to take away His Holy spirit which still restrains some of you, but once the Holy spirit is taking away, then upon whom will you call, when the heavens are closed against you. And when the Lord returns, to wreak vengeance upon those of you who mock Christ suffering where will you hide? May the Lord have mercy on you …”

            Thanks, @Sientje Seinen — but I’m just trying to earn a living, pay my taxes, get along, and have a life.

            I don’t think Jesus cares about political territories except for one’s own heart and soul.

            But that’s just me.

            You seem to be dwelling in this physical plane so ardently, in spite of your Jesus suggesting that His Kingdom is not of this plane.

            Take His advice, and while here, coordinate with others via the Constitution, the 10 Amendments (plus).

            Coordinate with Jesus however you see appropriate, and if that’s through your King James’ Bible, that’s between you and your Jesus.

            But, you and I, here on this physical plane, in this political territory called America, let’s meet under the Capitol dome, and shake hands across our Constitution, okay?
            .

      • Mary Kilbride

        Walk past that sort of thing every day. We see them celebrating at the White House…. we see kids in schools getting taught how to pray in the manner of a Muslim. We don’t get violent over it and we don’t sue over it, though maybe we should.

        • Paul Hiett

          Can you link to me the government sites in America in which a permanent marker for Islam is placed?

          • Sola Onanaiye

            Islam was not part of the foundation of American Judicial system and law or pat of is history of founding America.
            Let us always be thinking staight.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Nor is any form of Christianity.

            And what’s wrong with gay thinking, hmm?
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            a gay thinks about his sexual orientation and not what is noble, kind, generous and to come to the Lord by faith and confess his sinfull ways of life.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Speaking for yourself and your own experience, are you, @sientjeseinen:disqus?
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            Yes not in sexual matters but I have heard His voice there is no other voice like the voice of the Lord, I was very upset with the ecumenical movement and so asked the Lord for guidance concerning same. take care and may the Words of our Lord Christ Jesus find room in your heart.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            You wrote about gay thinking, belief, and behavior as if you are gay.

            Is that your source of authority on the subject, @sientjeseinen:disqus?
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            my husband aunt was a lesbian, she was chased by a bear, and no I am not gay, I think they are so wrapped up in themselves that they have not other thoughts except that everything should be about them, If you believe you are gay, you are more than like to turn to be gay or wanting to try it, this is the danger of telling children that is it normal, as children are adventurous, so yes you are tempting others by enforcing sexual orientations in the classrooms, which of course is what satan does best is to deceive, tempt and lie.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Okay, so, no, you have no personal experience that ANY sexuality is worthy of special note.

            Speculation only.

            Thanks, @sientjeseinen:disqus.
            __________

            Children self-identify their sexual identity and sexuality before entering the classroom, usually by three or four years old.

            The reason for acceptance in the classroom is because lack of acceptance is inappropriate, destructive, and illegal.
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            but that is wrong teaching, as the Lord has given every child to know whether one is a girl or a boy. otherwise one might come to school thinking he is a horse or sheep. He has instilled in us right from wrong. and it is another lie that humanity needs to accept everything. I may make friends with some but not others and others may make friends with whomever they click with and not me, This is normal, we dont need to be told whom we should like and whom we should dislike that is taking freedom away. to force sexual orientation on little children whom the Lord loves is an affront to the Lord God who said “Suffer the little children to come unto me” you dont like hearing the truth do you.

        • weasel1886

          In what school are kids being taught Muslim prayers?

          • getstryker

            Take a moment to Google that question and here’s a sampling of what you will find: “Common Core School Assignment Forces Students to Make Islamic Prayer Rug, Recite Muslim Prayers” – “Boston Public School Now Forcing Its Non-Islamic Students To Learn This Muslim Prayer” – “The Michigan Public School Board gives Muslim students special privileges not allowed to Christians” – there are lots more!

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Filter for known biased sources of lies:

            toprightnews.com
            patriotupdate.com
            thefederalistpapers.org
            christianpost.com
            lastresistance.com
            freedomworks.org
            charleswatson.net
            … and so on.

            News flash — just because someone puts it on the web does not mean it’s the whole truth, partial truth, or even contains a grain of truth.

            Nice argument, though.

            Not.
            .

          • getstryker

            Your ‘list’ represents only your subjective opinion of bias – you may be correct or in error . . . I don’t know – my ‘argument’ as you call it, presented only the fact that there are numerous reported sources of verification by news reporters, filed court documents and testimony by witnesses to the fact that school age children are being ‘indoctrinated’ into the tenants of Islam. References to Christianity are being curtailed and Islam is being promoted under various guises that would be disallowed if it were Christian teachings. Weasel1886 ask: ” In what school are kids being taught Muslim prayers?” I merely showed him a way to find out.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            No, you showed a redundant way to find biased misinterpretations and propaganda, unsubstantiated accusations, twisted non-logic — absolutely no news or reporting or independent unbiased journalism.
            __________

            No public school legally teaches any prayer as indoctrination, thank you ACLU and proactive American atheists.

            Any public school can teach knowledge of any subject, any people, any culture, current or historical.

            I learned about Greek mythology as required reading for erudite social reference, not as indoctrination.

            “Prayers are being taught” is an ambiguously misleading tease — it means absolutely nothing without specific qualifiers, you provided none.

            Your posts are baseless, meaningless gyrations vying for inflammatory effect.
            __________

            But then, as true Christians, we can meet here, and share, and disagree, and all be true Christians nonetheless.

            Pax domini sit semper vobiscum.
            .

          • getstryker

            Hahahaha . . . You said: “Your posts are baseless, meaningless gyrations vying for inflammatory effect.” It seems to have worked, didn’t it! Hahahaha

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            @getstryker:disqus wrote:

            “… sources of verification by news reporters, filed court documents and testimony by witnesses to the fact that school age children are being ‘indoctrinated’ into the tenants [ sic – residents?!? ] of Islam. References to Christianity are being curtailed and Islam is being promoted under various guises that would be disallowed if it were Christian teachings …”

            No, no “facts” to support your fears.

            And the list I shared was the exact response to a Google search for your exact reference — all disreputable propaganda sites.

            No wonder your brain hurts.
            .

          • getstryker

            Yeahhhh, that’s the reason, uh huh! BTW -you left out the ‘qualifier’ to my comment: ” . . . ‘there are numerous reported’ sources of verification . . . ” My original response to weasel1886 was to give him a starting point to do his own research – not to provide him or you all the ‘footnotes’ . . . look it up yourselves – believe what you like – it’s a ‘free country’ – (at least it was!)

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            No, again, NONE of the references are to VERIFICATION of your false claims.
            .

          • getstryker

            Well, that’s the way it goes – believe what you like. I’m not here to do your homework. Its almost 1:00am here in the land of fruits and nuts and I’m heading for bed – Good night sir.

          • Sientje Seinen

            if you are gay, you should be afraid, as Islam does not tolerate homosexuality, as Isis is the radical part of Islam

          • Sientje Seinen

            one could go to the school an d stay for a day t osee exactly what is going on and what they are teaching the children

          • weasel1886

            All i can find are opinions when i research these things

          • getstryker

            Well then, I’d suggest you continue to look . . . “the truth is out there!”

          • weasel1886

            I just don’t think this is a huge problem. The entire “Muslims taking over the country” thing is just fear mongering. If one statement or lesson can turn someone completely off of their faith I’d say the problem is with their faith.
            There are always rogue teachers just like preachers and other professionals.

          • getstryker

            “Fear mongering?” – Perhaps, but I think that this is just a symptom of a growing problem here in the U.S. It’s influence thru ‘Common Core’ curriculum is being noticed by Christian and non-Christians alike. The history of and current events happening within Europe and England and now here in America show there is a growing problem. The actions of the Obama administration around the world are incomprehensible. Unprotected borders, clandestine operations overseas that result in American deaths, abandonment of allies, denials and cover ups? – it may not be obvious to everyone but there appears to be a problem out there. This is not a ‘hot war’ – it’s being done in stealth and it’s being aimed at our kids. You are certainly entitled to your opinion – I hope that I am wrong.

          • weasel1886

            There has and will always be problems of national concern. In my sixty years I don’t see our problems as being any more or less severe now than at other times. Our foriegn policy is a mess and I really don’t tink anyone has very good answers for it. Education has been a political ping pong ball for the last 20-25 years. We talk reform but nothing really works. I’m afraid that until the parents take education seriously that the schools are going to have a toug time. We test and test but really don’t use the results to do anything positive.

          • getstryker

            I would certainly agree with your comments in this matter but I also see ‘this particular problem’ as one that is insidious and malevolent and needs to be recognized more widely and dealt with ASAP. We are being lead down a path we may not be able to return from. I for one, am not willing to let that happen – not in my country or in my lifetime.

        • John Swain

          Mary I believe we should

          • Sientje Seinen

            I also think you should that they are brainwashing your children and soon those children will rule over you.

      • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

        If the Quran had standing in that it had historical influence on the forming of this nation, then it wouldn’t matter how anyone felt about it. The same type of ruling would have come down in favor of the verse.

        • Paul Hiett

          But the 10 Commandments are not something indigenous to Christianity. Those “commandments” are tenets of law found in pretty much every society that has ever existed.

          Don’t kill, don’t steal, etc…very much a part of the majority of every single civilization on Earth. How can any one religion possibly lay claim to these base laws of society?

          • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

            You’re right Paul, they are indigenous to the Jewish people. Christians relate to them through the New Covenant through Jesus Christ in that Christ fulfilled the law perfectly making Him and unblemished sacrifice. He is a sacrifice for all men for forgiveness of sin and to re establish a personal relationship with Our Father in heaven. Man’s proclivity for sin kept from us that relationship. Now through Jesus Christ we have forgiveness of sins and are redeemed from the curse of the Law. We have everlasting life with Him.

          • Paul Hiett

            Indigenous to the Jewish people?

            So…the Romans didn’t exist before the Jews? The Asians? The Native Americans? Aboriginals of Australia?

            You mean to tell me that no one had laws such as these except the Jews until Rome adopted Christianity in 313 AD?

          • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

            Honestly, are you kidding?

          • Paul Hiett

            You’re the one that claimed they were indigenous to the Jewish people…

          • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

            Honestly, are you kidding…..??? LOL!!

          • Paul Hiett

            Would you care to explain why you think those “laws” are indigenous only to the Jewish people? How do you explain those laws being common place in cultures and societies that predate Judaism?

          • Sientje Seinen

            they didnt why do suppose the Lord drove out other nations before the Israelites whom practiced abominable and detestable things among themselves. Therefore He drove them out of the land as they profaned the land with their detestable abominations the same as will happen to America unless they repent

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Come out of the Twilight Zone, @sientjeseinen:disqus.

            Bible story days are over.

            The past is not yours to tell as prologue for anyone.

            Learn to live in the here and now.

            Stop wasting your life trying to dwell in the past and the future.

            Celebrate the blessing around you.

            Learn the 10 Amendments.

            Pay your taxes.
            .

          • Marvels of life

            Sir, it may be relevant to learn the 10 commandments. As for the past. If your speaking about God, that IS the future. Thanks for your time.

          • Sientje Seinen

            remember that Christ said “My kingdom is not of this world” therefore I thank the Lord each day for his blessings, and I do live in the here and now, as the Lord makes the sun to shine upon the just and the unjust, but heed the fact there will be a day of reckoning, the lord isnt slack concerning this, but is long suffering towards us so that no one should perish, but he does has set a day for judgment. are you prepared? I know the ten commandments and I revere the Lord in my heart, remember the “fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” may you also come to know the Lord God of Israel and Jesus Whom He sent.

          • Sientje Seinen

            They were given to Moses at Mt Sinai, when the Lord delivered them out of slavery and led them to the promised land. see the Lord does not condone slavery for those whom He hast elected as He heard their cry and sent Moses to deliver them out of Egypt. with mighty signs and wonders.

          • Sientje Seinen

            no the Jews were known of much before the roman empire, as we know of the Israelites before they were slaves in Egypt, as they come from Isaac and Jacob, in which Abraham’s seed would be called.

          • TheBBP

            Ignore Paul, he isn’t looking for discussion, he is only here to troll. Folks have tried many times to talk with him but he remains unrelentingly spiteful. It’s time that we stop giving that sort of thing attention.

          • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

            You are right BBP. He says nonsensical things. Likes to play victim. Too ignorant to talk to.

          • Paul Hiett

            By all means, listen to BBP, someone who’s said nothing on the subject, but decided to post an ad hom attack on someone else.

            Now, if you have any sense of logic about you, between he and I, which of us is actually engaging in a discussion and which is attacking?

          • MisterPine

            I enjoy Paul’s comments. He’s very effective at destroying weak arguments.

          • Richard

            He also seems to be very good at presenting them, too.

          • TheBBP

            Matthew 7:6
            English Standard Version
            “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.

            Now, this is not saying that you should not converse with unbelievers, but when they continue to spit on the Word and our Lord, you should cease giving them time.

          • MisterPine

            I happen to agree with what he says.

          • Richard

            I believe you are in the minority. Small at that.

          • MisterPine

            On a board like this, you are probably right. Doesn’t make me wrong though.

          • Richard

            It’s true you are entitled to your beliefs. But being entitled to them doesn’t necessarily mean they are true. That applies to all of us. The only way we can tell if they are true is to line them up with the evidence and facts. Many people don’t do that.

          • MisterPine

            I always line things up with evidence and facts. They are the only things I use to measure what is factual. Paul clearly has no respect for bigotry, nor do I. We both call it out when we see it.

          • Richard

            Do you realize calling someone a bigot actually makes you one? Funny how that escapes certain activist groups within our society.

            Are you a Christian? Atheist? Agnostic? Just curious so I know who I’m talking with.

          • MisterPine

            “Do you realize calling someone a bigot actually makes you one?”

            Please explain this rather strange statement. I am an agnostic theist.

          • Richard

            Thanks for letting me know your beliefs. I’m a Christian. Have been for many years.

            Bigoted: having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one’s own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others

            The moment a person calls another a bigot, he labels himself as one.

          • MisterPine

            Do you not believe it is possible to expose a person’s bigotry without exposing a personal superiority? I do not feel I am superior to anyone, yet I think I can quite easily point out another person’s bigotry. I feel there are Christian bigots and there are atheist bigots but I do not feel Paul is a bigot.

          • Richard

            The truth is, the moment a person strongly stands up for his beliefs, he is a bigot. All of us are but just about different things.

          • MisterPine

            What happens when you stand up for things proven to be true (rather than strongly held beliefs) while still exposing someone else’s bigotry? Are you still a bigot then?

          • Richard

            It depends on if you believe in true and untrue, rather than in subjective opinion.

            Being passionate about and defending a subject is normal. That’s called difference of opinion and tolerance.

            What elevates a person to bigot status is when they call someone else a bigot. This means the name-caller thinks his opinion is superior to the person he called a bigot. In its truest sense, calling someone a bigot is bigoted and intolerant.

          • MisterPine

            But there are matters where true and untrue cannot be known and there can be only subjective opinions. I feel it is possible to expose bigotry without being labelled bigoted. Here is an example – when someone continues to hold contrary opinions after they’ve been proven factually incorrect. In this case, you would not be holding onto any opinion of your own but that which has been proven to be true.

          • Richard

            Many things can’t be absolutely proven true or untrue. This relegates many topics to subjective opinion. As you’ve probably noticed, people often adhere to their personal beliefs regardless if they are actually true.

            As well, most subjects have conflicting facts. Research can also be skewed and suppressed so the real facts are obscured.

            This means making a value judgement about someone else’s views makes the judger the bigot…thinking that he has the truth and the other doesn’t.

          • MisterPine

            I sincerely apologize if I was not clear in my last message. While it is true that many things can’t be absolutely proven true or untrue, a great many more CAN be – factual information as obtained from scientific sources, for example. So in those cases, would you be making a bigoted statement if you were exposing someone who continued to hold on to an opinion after being factually proven incorrect?

          • Richard

            I personally wouldn’t use the term bigot at all, for the reasons I’ve previously stated. Research has shown that the majority of people have a very difficult time changing their beliefs even in spite of facts to the contrary. So rather than labelling them, you might want to show tolerance and patience.

          • Sientje Seinen

            it depends as scientist can be also misled, as they sometimes manufacture data, or expand on it, so that it sounds to be true but in fact might not be, most scientists love to win the nobel peace prize

          • Sientje Seinen

            you have to give the source where it definitely says it has been proven. and back it up with evidence, if you cant do that,then your things which you stand up for are questionable at most.

          • MisterPine

            I always provide evidence. And by the way, that works both ways, you have to provide it too, and quoting the Bible by the way is not proof of anything.

          • Sientje Seinen

            2,000 years since A.D after Christ or His ascension and yet His Word still stand, though we are now in the latter days, as there will be a falling away of the true faith, as we can see happening now, and Christ return is imminent repent.

          • MisterPine

            Everyone historically who has ever made that claim has been wrong. You are just the next one to be wrong.

          • Sientje Seinen

            Ever since Christ ascension we have been in the latter days until His return, will you be ready to meet you maker? as Christ spoke these Words when asked about His return “When you see the Fig tree put forth its leaves, know that it is near at the very doors, and we know the Israel is also known as the Fig tree symbolically. and Israel became a state in 1948 and the Lord has blessed them. and one sign “This generation shall not pass away, untill all this be fulfilled.” there are still people alive born in the early 1900’s with the beginning of the first world war. repent and be reAdy.

          • MisterPine

            I don’t believe as you do, I am not a Christian. This means I think everything you say is wrong.

          • Sientje Seinen

            just watch the signs of the times and you may just find yourself wondering what is happening to our children and the world we live in, I suggest you ask the Lord for understanding and wisdom in all things. God bless anyway

          • Sientje Seinen

            because he is ensnared by satan, no he needs to be pitied, as he is here on earth to do the will of satan, to turn people away from Christ and His message of salvation. since Paul doesnt believe that Christ can take away the desires of the lusts of the flesh.

          • MisterPine

            Paul is well-spoken and how stupid to suggest Satan has “ensnared” him just because you disagree with him. Grow up.

          • Sientje Seinen

            I dont think you know the wiles of satan do you? Did you not listen to what the Lord said about those who dont believe on Him as being the Redeemer the Holy One of Israel, who came to call everyone to repentance? “Every plant that my Father in heaven has not planted will be rooted up?” goes with the parable where the enemy sowed tares among the wheat, ask theLord to give you insight and understanding into His Word.

          • MisterPine

            And what if you are wrong and Paul is right and you simply have a difference of opinion, why does SATAN automatically get mentioned?

          • Sientje Seinen

            I guess you do not know the Word of the Lord do you? those that mock Christ suffering and invoke the Lord to anger are called the chilren of disobedience, they are dead in their sins. and guess who deceived Adam and eve? so sin and death reign in this world, and the Lord is against those whom only think about their own pleasure and do not give heed to His Word or give thanks.

          • Sientje Seinen

            where was the bigotry, isnt it on your part by not wanting to hear what Maggi has to say, so you attack her. If you were sincere would you not ask her, what is she trying to tell me? so the bigotry is on your part.

          • MisterPine

            What on earth are you talking about, I didn’t even mention Maggi, all I said was I enjoyed Paul’s comments.

          • Sientje Seinen

            wrong about what you havent stated your opinion yet.

          • Sola Onanaiye

            Christianity or Judaism is not claiming the laws, but these religion documented it and enforce it before any other in the real sense of a written law. That is the fact and that is what make it a monument.

          • Sientje Seinen

            No other faith has “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind and soul and the second is like “To love your neighbour as yourself” see your first allegiance should be to the Lord God above the maker of heaven and earth and all the rest of the commandments that follow.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .

            10?

            23.

            No, 24.

            .

    • http://www.intervalmagic.com Tom Interval

      Hi Tara. Like many (if not most) people in the U.S., you’ve missed the point. It’s about equality and the separation of church and state. Either no religion should be represented, or all religions and unbelief should be represented. Why? Because the U.S. is made up of believers and nonbelievers. Do you understand? Atheists are not saying that their right to not believe trumps believers’ right to believe. They’re saying that everyone in the U.S. should be represented equally in public areas. Including the ten commandments on public property defies the separation of church and state. No one is trying to take away your right to believe in a god. In fact, it’s just the opposite: Atheists fighting to separate church from state are doing so in the interest of every American because it’s all about equality and representing every American, not just the majority. In other words, atheists are fighting to preserve the laws that allow you to believe in whatever you want. Remember, we don’t live under a religious dictatorship, and we have the constitution to thank for that (albeit, many high-profile and influential religious conservatives would do anything to change that). Promoting any one religion on public property does not represent the views, beliefs, or unbelief of all Americans. I just don’t get why this concept is so hard for people to understand. In short, your reaction is the gut-wrenching popular view, but it’s completely flawed. And the saddest part is that those who are the most arrogant (those who claim to “know” that the Christian “God” exists or who claim to have a “personal relationship” with the Christian “God”) are the ones calling the unbelievers arrogant. But the truth of the matter is that the unbelievers are the ones who continually say that, while they don’t believe in gods or other supernatural phenomena or beings, no one could possibly “know” the origin of the universe or if there is or isn’t a god. Atheists generally say there is no good reason to believe in a god (and they’re absolutely right based on reality and the information we now have), but most of them don’t claim to “know” or have all the answers. And by the way, no amount of energy will be needed to rid the world of “God” because reality, as science continues to reveal it, will probably do that on its own if there is no “God.” And if there is some supernatural being out there, then science will probably uncover that as well, given enough years. So far, it hasn’t, and that’s just the way it is. Until then, no one “knows” anything, and no one is trying to take away your right to believe. You’re free to believe whatever you want, but that belief is your own and should not be forced upon other people on public property that’s supposed to represent every American.

      • Tara

        sorry, but I happen to think it’s ridiculous that a group of people think an object can ‘force’ anything on anyone.

        • Sientje Seinen

          they do on the children by teaching them subtly about sexual orientation that it is normal and they do not let children be children but forcing their ideas upon their young minds, do you not know that the entity of homosexuality cannot survive without recruiting?

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            STOP LYING, @sientjeseinen:disqus, children self identify their sexual identity and sexual orientation before school, around 3 or 4 — you are a destructive hateful bigot.
            .

          • Sientje Seinen

            I am not lying I will tell some fact during the second world war Germany had 4,000.000 males. Of those 4,000,000 males 2,000,000 of them were bi-sexual or homosexual. so dont tell me they do not recruit. also homosexual crying that they are persecuted like the Jews isnt true either, they were put into prison in Germany as Hitler was afraid of the birth rate which had fallen drastically, but they were not persecuted outside of Germany it was solely because the birth rate had fallen so drastically in Germany. as for the blacks were the blacks all homosexuals that they were persecuted for these reasons, you lie and deceive the people, which again is not from the Lord God.

      • Sientje Seinen

        Not reality but that the Lord God will hide His face from the people as He cannot walk with sin, and since there is no repentance like in the days of Noah, you are only invoking the day of judgment.

        • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

          .
          Right, thell your God what your God can and cannot do, @sientjeseinen:disqus.

          You’re projecting your own hateful bigotry onto your God — STOP IT!
          .

          • Sientje Seinen

            Oh I know one thing the Lord God cannot do and that is lie, as God is Truth, notice when He told adam and eve “that the day they ate of the tree of good and evil, they would die.” and so they ate and death and sin came into the world, Did the lord lie to Adam and eve and to you?

    • HugoPorta

      One human right should not encroach another’s. To take away another’s rights is wrong. That was a righteous judgement.! 🙂

    • Sientje Seinen

      they are called stumbling blocks to keep people from asking Christ to come into their hears another wile of satan who knows that Christ has defeated him at Calvary.

  • Liz Litts

    About time somebody got it right! All of these ‘lawsuits’ are put up jobs.

  • Mary Kilbride

    Nothing much to say but, YAYYYYY!

  • Mr. Avatar

    Congress has not made any laws regarding religion. Atheist are creeps!

  • Marvelatthis

    It seems that no matter how hard the Atheist agenda is pushed, it doesn’t work. Nobody can take away the faith of others, no matter how hard they try. Faith isn’t blind. It’s rooted in the truth. I believe like millions of others in Jesus Christ. An Atheist can argue all day long about evidence or proof, but often will fall on deaf ears primarily because they argue from a standpoint of negativity. What is negative about the message of Christ? Nothing. That seems to be so difficult for the New Atheist (Atheist capital for A-theist or label) This decision has been seen so often that I wonder why an Atheist would argue against something they claim to not believe in. I say claim because that is all it can be. God is real, as real today as it was for the past 58 years I’ve been a Christian. Although the Atheist will sure try their best to remove God, it just isn’t going to happen and why? Because we are a part of a society that honors God above other things. Does that make us better than an Atheist? No, can we be kind as we discuss our beliefs, absolutely. Is it difficult. Yes. Does an Atheist have the corner on science? No, not by a long shot. Do scientist’s believe in God? An article recently stated that based on the scientific acumen of specific scientists, about 40% believe in God. Along with that is an apparent feeling that when answering the question, many scientists will put none down when asked about their belief in God. Many say that reason is so that academia will not make a judgement based on their belief in God. Believing in God is a choice for sure, and being an Atheist is a choice as well. To attack me for my faith, my belief in God will not be changed. So I applaud the decision of the court on this issue. The Atheist that hovers over the Christian News Network seems strange to me. Why? Because the articles are going to be bent in favor of Christianity. Some Atheist’s just like to argue for argument sake. I believe when you see comments on Christian News Network, it is obvious that they want to stir up mud. Why? I certainly don’t understand why. There are plenty of Internet sites where they can join with other Atheists. We as Christians don’t need lectures from the Atheist community. Life is difficult enough without these futile efforts to offend each other.

    • Paul Hiett

      Today’s grammar lesson is free. “Atheist” or “atheism” is not capitalized.

      • Maggi Fitzgibbon Escamilla

        You said it!

        • Paul Hiett

          Yes, Maggi, I did. It’s a simple grammatical error that many people make.

          • Marvelatthis

            LOL Paul are you at that again. I saw your post about Capitalizing Labels. I’m glad you deleted it. I’m glad you read it

          • Paul Hiett

            I’m not sure what you mean by “capitalizing labels”. I didn’t post anything about that, nor did I delete anything.

          • Marvelatthis

            Today’s grammar lesson is free. “Atheist” or “atheism” is not capitalized. Your claiming you didn’t post this. I copied it from my email. “Atheist” is a label as I wrote. That is why I wrote it in my comment.

          • Paul Hiett

            Yes, I did write that, I didn’t delete it though.

    • Richard

      Well said!

    • http://www.intervalmagic.com Tom Interval

      Marvelatthis, believers do, indeed, have “deaf ears,” especially in the face of evidence that counters their purely emotional beliefs—beliefs based not on reality but on where the believers were born and how they were raised (if you were born and raised in Japan, you might be a Buddhist). Your conviction that “God is real” reveals that you cannot discuss the issue rationally or intelligently and reaffirms that religion has no place in a conversation about truth. You have the right to believe whatever you want, but those beliefs don’t represent all Americans, and they certainly have no bearing on reality as we currently understand it.

      • Marvelatthis

        Fair enough. You hold an opinion that is not my own. Reality is a subject of the lives people lead. The evidence of God is presented every day to me through enough information for me to only conclude God exists. You also have the right to believe whatever you like if you live in the United States, and I’m certainly very joyful that I live here and can believe in Almighty God even if God is a difficult concept for some. When you say “we” you realize that is a small minority of people who clearly want their voices heard. Again, your perspective is not mine but I understand your perspective after having this same discussion with many people. Of course you can poke at me as others have but Jesus anticipated that when he said that those who believe in him would be persecuted just because of his name. Now more than ever that seems to be the case. Have a blessed day!

        • Paul Hiett

          There isn’t a Christian in America today that knows what real persecution is.

          It really is sad when you resort to using a word you really know nothing about, or can appreciate, to describe your plight here of being the richest, most influential, and most catered to social group there is.

          • Marvelatthis

            Paul have you ever been homeless. I was homeless in Maine for 8 months during the winter 6 years ago. Have you almost died Paul. I almost died 3 weeks ago. I say that to say this. If you think my life has been catered to, you are sadly mistaken. If you make that claim after all the possessions you currently have, and you state I’m catered to, you have a long way to go in understanding the term. If you knew the pain that I go through every day because of a damaged kidney, a damaged liver, and Pancrea’s you experience that and then call me catered to. What is sad is that you don’t know what you speak of. One day you will and it will completely change the way you think, I can guarantee it.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            Because you were Christian?
            .

          • Marvels of life

            I believe that being Christian certainly has had an impact on how I handle things, or have had to deal with situations. With that being said, yes because I’m a Christian. When you go from a six figure income to homeless with all the things I learned out there on the street, I found that you become invisible. People will turn their heads away from you and when it gets cold below zero sometimes when I was in a park alone, you get to know who God really is. That is the truth. When your taken in by a shelter sponsored by Christians they become your only survival mechanism. Food for instance. Clothing another. It becomes apparent that when you talk to people that are also in that situation, often those that aren’t on drugs or alcohol are looking for God. One man told me he had been on the street for 7 years finding God. I asked him if he found him. He told me, “Every day” When I had money I didn’t consider the needs of others, I was too busy trying to make more. Now that I’m disabled but blessed with a roof over my head, a bed, a good Christian woman, and barely make it,, I’ve learned how to give. I work with young people that are homeless, needing work, and needing hope. They, not me, have concluded that Jesus has helped them and I have grown so proud of them. It’s a small group, but if they need something they know they can come here. Even if we can’t make it through the month, it is important for them to know they can sleep here if needed, they can eat here, and if necessary they can borrow anything I have, that I can offer. You see, my experience being homeless has become a blessing to these young people because I learned a lesson. I’m not trying to pat myself on the back, I’m saying that Christ is real and I know it. Say what you will, but money didn’t show me that. Christ did by putting me to the test, and I’m greatful for that believe it or not. Do I still have issues? Yes, Agoraphobia, a form of PTSD from my experience. Do I trust God to help me. Absolutely 100% and that’s my message to you. You can also trust that God will help you, by giving God a chance to.

          • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

            .
            The point was, you were persecuted into homelessness because you were Christian, right?
            .

          • Marvels of life

            That is a question I’m not sure of to be honest.

    • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

      .
      Nobody’s trying to take away anybody’s faith.

      It can’t be done anyway.

      But, according to law, all we’re trying to do is deny the government any faith of it’s own.

      Everyone’s government should never show favors over any individual vying for equal services and support, equal protection and due process.

      When the government has it’s own faith, everyone becomes second class citizens, even you.

      Our founding documents thankfully establish us as a secular political territory where each individual is supreme, not some church, and not the government.

      Let’s keep it that way.
      __________

      You’re dialoging with other Christians, @disqus_tCyN0oyIOn:disqus, Christians who disagree with you.

      There’s one in every pew.

      Right next to you.
      .

      • Marvels of life

        Thank you for your comment. I agree with you. The thing I would not like to see happen is for someone to take away from the values that I think most Americans have. For ex: A group has tried to remove what looks to be a cross from the wreakage of 9/11 that is part of the monument and honor of those that have fallen. There is no need for that. It does nobody harm and it shows that we value Icons of that nature. We being most of the populous of the United States. It doesn’t deny the rights of others to have those Icons in place that I’m aware of.

      • Marvels of life

        LOL, as for pew, I don’t set in pews. I believe in Christ and his message to us. I assemble only with my family and friends.

  • http://www.blastthetrumpet.org Michael Swenson
  • XaurreauX Pont DeLac

    How desperate and needy. If you have REAL faith you shouldn’t need the government to prop up your religion. Secularism is for grownups.

    • Sientje Seinen

      of course not, we pray for the government to make the right decisions regarding the country, but if the leaders are atheist and do not look to the Lord God for wisdom in ruling a country you cannot blame that on the christians. Whom do the athiest pray for or to whom when trials and tribulations besets them? the government?

      • http://www.peterblaise.com/ peterblaise

        .
        @sientjeseinen:disqus, anyone who works for our government swears or affirms that they will uphold and defend the Constitution, the supreme law of the US.

        Not any God or religion or Christ or Bible, all that would be personal, and inappropriate for advising their decisions in government service.

        Please list the known atheists in positions of responsibility in government.

        You know, like Presidents or Senators or Congress or Judges.

        … waiting … ( crickets )…
        .

        • Sientje Seinen

          since I am not an American dont know your constitution or what they swear to, I am sure that honourable men in government position, would have a love for God and their country, as without honoring the Lord God creator of the universe, how does a nation expect blessings from the same God? It is possible that people who fall away from the true faith are also able to select athiest people to congress or even president,It is only those who know the Lord their God, who ask the Lord for guidance when they vote someone into power. so it depends how many people give honour to the Lord, and how many are opposed to having the Lord God’s blessing upon the country on America as heathen nations usually elect bad leaders those whom are only interested in power and having no regard for their fellow citizens and their plight.

  • HugoPorta

    Amen. Our prayers answered! Rev 3:10 just remains in my thoughts. Father, let your Kingdom come, let your will be done here on earth as in your Heavenly Kingdom of Eternity! GLORY Maranatha!