Attorneys Warn U.S. Supreme Court: ‘Gay Marriage Could Bring God’s Judgment on the Nation’

Supreme CourtWASHINGTON — A legal brief recently submitted to the U.S. Supreme Court warns that forcing states to recognize same-sex “marriage” could bring God’s judgment upon the nation.

As previously reported, in January, in light of contrasting appeals court decisions, the nine justices agreed to take up a case that would determine whether or not the U.S.Constitution provides states the right to ban same-sex nuptials. The case is set to for oral argument this month with a decision in June.

“This case before this Court is this nation’s tower of Babel. At issue is whether we as a people are going to continue to conform the institution of marriage to the one created and established by God, or instead will reform the most sacred of human institutions into something else chosen by an elite set of jurists,” reads the amicus brief, filed by the U.S. Justice Foundation of Ramona, Calif. and the law offices of William Olsen of Vienna, Va.

Several other Christian attorneys joined in the submission, including Kerry Morgan of Pentuik, Couvreur & Kobiljak P.C. in Wyandotte, Mich., James Clymer of Clymer Conrad, P.C. in Lancaster, Pa. and J. Mark Brewer of Brewer & Pritchard, P.C.  in Houston, Texas.

In addition to warning that requiring states to recognize same-sex arrangements would continue to have detrimental ramifications for Christian business owners, churches and society in general, the attorneys spoke of the spiritual consequences for such a decision.

“The Holy Scriptures reveal that God created mankind, male and female, in the image of God,” the attorneys declare, pointing to Genesis 1:27 and Matthew 19:4-6. “Homosexual sex and homosexual marriage are a repudiation of God’s created order.”

“Should the court require the states and the people to ‘ritualize’ sodomite behavior by government issuance of a state marriage license, it could bring God’s judgment on the nation,” they warn, pointing to Leviticus 18:22 and 24-30. “Holy Scripture attests that homosexual behavior and other sexual perversions violate the law of the land, and when the land is ‘defiled,’ the people have been cast out of their homes.”

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The latter verse follows a segment of Levitical law that outlines prohibited sexual relations, including those between relatives, with animals and with another man’s wife.

“Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things, for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you,” it reads. “And the land is defiled; therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.”

“Although some would assert that these rules apply only to the theocracy of ancient Israel, the Apostle Peter rejects that view: ‘For if God … turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly’,” the brief continues, quoting from 2 Peter 2:4-6.

It notes that even the book of Jude underscores that one of the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah was sex between the same gender in going after “strange flesh.”

“The continuing application of this Levitical prohibition is confirmed by the Book of Jude: ‘Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire,” the attorneys outline.

“Whatever justification any judge may believe compels a state to define marriage to include same-sex couples, it is not found in the Constitution, nor is it based in any constitutional principle,” the brief concludes. “For any judge to require a state to define marriage to include same-sex couples is an usurpation of authority that he does not have under the laws of man or God, and is thus illegal.”


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  • Frank

    Amen

  • FoJC_Forever

    God’s Judgement is already against America, and the world. The innocent blood will be avenged, and all Sin will be paid with Death. Those who are not in Covenant with God through Jesus Christ will be rewarded according to their works alone, apart from the forgiveness offered by Jesus.

    • The Last Trump

      “Therefore God gave them up to the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
      Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.” Romans 1:24.

      “God gave them up to” would seem to indicate that homosexuality itself may be a judgment of God for “exchanging the truth about God for a lie, and worshiping and serving created things rather than the Creator”.

      Whatever the case may be, America is finished and everybody (but the gay community) realizes it. Truly heart breaking to see the once great beacon of light and shining example to the world fall so quickly and so completely from within. The facts speak for themselves. Under a majority Christian leadership and founded on Christian doctrines and principals, America flourished and was the envy of the world. And in comparison today, with bizzaro America, the complete opposite of her former self, adopting samesex marriage, abortion, drug legalization, Darwinism and sheer godlessness, she has become the punchline to a sad joke, with too many terminal problems to even attempt to fix. The laughing stock of the world. Too sick and depraved to even know the difference. And the rest of the world is only too happy to see her spoiled, arrogant, self-entitled, godless, hedonistic, perverted, immoral, pleasure seeking citizenry get what they deserve. Judgment. Sad to see such promise fall from grace. 🙁 But necessary to usher in the return of you know who! 🙂

      • Phipps Mike

        ” America is finished and everybody (but the gay community) realizes it.”

        oh, so you are saying even all of the PERFECT Christians are going to die because of the gays sins? SMH.

    • ReadLearnThink

      You don’t know that at all, you are parroting the words of some pastor or TV preacher. You are free to do so, but people are also free to tell you that you are ridiculous.

  • Richard

    One only needs to look at Jewish history to see what God thinks of rebellion. And God doesn’t change nor did His moral laws. Sin is always punished. It’s just a matter of when, not if.

    May God continue to bless this nation, not curse it. It will be USA’s faithfulness that will determine which.

  • staad

    america will become synonymous to babylon and pagan rome when faggots rule together with their supporters and defies all norms of holiness and decency.

    • weasel1886

      “Faggots,” nice Christian talk. What do you call black people? I wonder

      • Ruth Davis

        Why did you have to put black people in that?

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          weasel1886 likes to do that for some strange reason .

        • weasel1886

          Because rarely do hateful people only hate 1 group

        • Brian_Joness

          Just hate speech. You can use any minority you want.

      • MC

        Why bring up Black people? Why do you assume he’s non Black?

        • weasel1886

          Because people that hate usually don’t stop at one group. I don’t know any black people that use the term

          • MC

            Black people use that term, so do Asians and Native Americans.

          • weasel1886

            It still is an awful hateful term to use

  • Cori Sayer-Porter

    I am thoroughly convinced that the only thing standing between Canada and judgment is the fact that our Prime Minister stansd with Israel.

    • Danielmormon

      You are a good soul. And a good soldier in Christ

    • Brian_Joness

      You do know that we are all waiting for Israel to be destroyed so that Christians, not Jews, can go to heaven. Right?

      • Cori Sayer-Porter

        Uh no. Jews who accept Christ go to heaven too. And Israel will not be destroyed until right before Jesus returns.

  • mspicky

    We would not be facing this issue if we had listened to what the President was saying in his speeches. Like he said in his interview with meet the press. America hasn’t seen anything yet. Homosexuals are not our GOD and neither is the president , JESUS is.( 2 Chronicles 7-14 )if we will just humble ourselves. So many Christians voted for this man because he said he was a christian, they did not seek answer from GOD frist.

    • Susan Moore

      Wouldn’t that be a threat from the President saying that? America or the West is not mentioned in Revelations.

      • Ruth Davis

        What do you mean? Please explain

  • Rev T J Carter

    This is the link about what Scientist have discovered in Sodom and Gomorrah http://www.arkdiscovery.com/sodom_&_gomorrah.htm

    • Danielmormon

      Thank you Pastor

    • Krauss Allie

      Hi Rev. Please be careful when using the word “scientist” in this context. Those of us who spent years gaining an education and who never signed a ‘statement of faith’ tend to frown upon creationists stealing this term.

      thanks in advance! Much appreciated!

  • Brian_Joness

    Anyone want to tell me why this verse doesn’t apply to homosexuals?

    COR 8
    But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

    Also God did not create marriage, as the brief said. That’s ridiculous when you read any of the passages from the Bible regarding marriage.

    • Ruth Davis

      The biblical definition of marriage is between a man and a woman. YOU need to go back to the beginning of the bible Gen 2- 23.

      • Brian_Joness

        The Christian definition of marriage wasn’t even figured out until the middle ages. Marriage was around a long time before the Bible was written.

        • Danielmormon

          God set the standard of Marriage with Adam and Eve. NEVER with Adam and Steve!

          • Brian_Joness

            Then why the heck did he make Steve?

          • Danielmormon

            To marry another female named Eve!

      • Danielmormon

        Very GOOD, Ruth!

  • weasel1886

    I guess slavery genocide and abortion wasn’t enough to cause God’s wrath, gay marriage is. What a twisted way of seeing things

    • Brian_Joness

      God was on board for slavery and genocide. The Bible is pretty clear on that unfortunately. I don’t think we’d get God’s wrath because a gay couple gets married, though.

      • weasel1886

        Death and evil seem to be a big part of Christian expression

      • Danielmormon

        Gay marriage is a cheap counterfeit to true happiness.It is tar baby of a life style, will stain all who come near, and will trap all who smooch with it.

        • Phipps Mike

          ” cheap counterfeit to true happiness”
          so you know all gays and whether they are happy or not?
          bwahahahahahahaha!!!! yeahhh righttt. Oh and I think YOU would be unhappy yourself until you earn your “special underwear”….lol

        • Brian_Joness

          “Tar baby” really? Well, there goes your credibility.

    • Ruth Davis

      GOD allowed slavery for a reason. Some of those women who have had abortions ask them how they felt afterwards and if they have children ( Exodus 20-13 Though shall not kill. He also left a message for homosexuals to (( Romans 1,26-32 )but none the less sin is sin and we will pay for our disobedients.

      • Brian_Joness

        Wow, way to take something from the Bible out of context. Read the versus before Romans 1:26. You begin with “Because of this…” Maybe you should learn what “this” was. That is not a condemnation of gay people, it is punishing straight people for not worshiping Him correctly and turning them gay temporarily so they’d feel icky afterwards. I wonder if He turned gay people straight during that punishment too.

        It is a weird, but common, conclusion to think that because God turned straight people gay, that he somehow thinks gay people are evil and sinful. Why would God make people sin?

        • ChildofGod

          God’s word NEVER said that He would turn straight people gay temporarily or otherwise! This is what the scripture said,

          “Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

          For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.”

          This passage clearly speaks of homosexuality. It is also clear that the people that God gave up to “vile passions” were already engaging in homosexual practices. God did not make them sin but simply let them do what they had already purposed in the hearts to do.

          • Brian_Joness

            Why would he have to do anything if they were already doing it? That makes no sense No, He was obviously punishing them for not worshiping Him correctly as He does many many times in the Bible. It is only people with an anti-gay agenda that try to twist it otherwise.

          • ChildofGod

            Sir, you are right about one thing. I do not support homosexuality. I do not hate homosexuals, I just do not support their lifestyle. I would treat them as I would normally treat any heterosexual. God expects me to love all men. However, I do not seek to twist the word of God. Quite frankly, when the scripture says that “God gave them up” it simply means that He let them continue in their sin. It was a passive sort of action. Case in point, let’s say there is a child who loves junk food. This child has been warned about eating too much junk food but (s)he never listens. To teach the child a lesson, the parent lets the child eat as much junk food as (s)he wants in on sitting so that he or she would learn that indulging like (s)he does would make them sick. Same principle. If men decide that they are going to do what they want anyway, they would eventually find out that the wages of sin really IS death, spiritual death more so than physical.
            Worship, sir, is not about the songs that we sing in church. It has to do with our lifestyle. You cannot worship God and sin at the same time, otherwise it is not worship. When men look away from God and run after the things of the flesh, they make that thing their God. This is what not worshiping Him correctly means.

          • Phipps Mike

            “but simply let them do what they had already purposed in the hearts to do.”
            so if God LET THEM do that stuff, who is man to forbid gay marriage and appoint themselves HIGHER than God?

          • ChildofGod

            Sir, if you are determined to misunderstand me there is nothing that I can do about that. Do men not still commit adultery? Do men not still engage in fornication? Do men not still murder, steal, lie? God already gave the command not to engage in these things. He’s not going to stand in the way of what men CHOOSE to do. That is simply what the scripture means. The bible already states that the wages of sin is death, not necessarily physical but spiritual death. If men refuse to obey God, whose fault is it when they have to face the second death? We were and are still being warned. The onus is on us to stop engaging in sin!
            Lemme put it this way. We have laws. Some countries have laws against jay walking. We know these laws. We know why we have these laws. Are the ones responsible for making the laws and enforcing the laws just standing in the streets waiting for the jay walkers to appear so that they can forcibly lift them out of the road and place them safely back on the side walks and walk along side them and make sure that they stay on the pedestrian crossing? No! Because they know the law, they will have to suffer the consequences if they break them! Same principle!

        • Danielmormon

          NO! The Word of God is very clear that the sexually immoral will not enter the Kingdom of God!

          • Brian_Joness

            Yes, that’s why gays should get married and be in monogamous relationships, if they can’t become celibate priests. Although, I think we have learned that we shouldn’t shove gays into the priesthood because their sexuality will manifest badly. Just let them get married to each other as consenting adults, please.

      • weasel1886

        What other evils does God allow?

  • Covered California

    Hmm same séx marriage has been legal in the Netherlands for 14 years and the sky hasn’t fallen. Nor did the entire country “turn gay.” Do we just ignore that because it’s the u.s. and we are the only place in the world that matters? Lol

    • Ruth Davis

      No, but the wrath of JESUS CHRIST will.

      • Brian_Joness

        Are you saying that Jesus Christ is wrathful? I think the only time that happened was when he attacked the market place.

        • Danielmormon

          All who refuse Christ’s offer of grace,will pay for their own sins, a terrible fate

        • Eric Fredrickson

          Then the angel of the LORD went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand in the Assyrian camp. When the people got up the next morning–there were all the dead bodies! – Isaiah 37:36

        • Ruth Davis

          No GOD is not wrathful, but you can incur his wrath by calling a liar, and speaking evil of Him.

    • Crono478

      It has continued for a while in Sodom and Gomorrah before they came to their sudden end. It did happen and continued for a while at end of Roman Empire.

      There are number of countries that allowed homosexual marriage will be under God’s wrath that is to come unless they repent of their sins just like the city of Ninevah in Book of Jonah did.

      • Covered California

        OK false prophet.

        • Crono478

          How am I a false prophet?

        • Crono478

          I don’t know how you are calling me a false prophet when it is obviously in Bible regarding Sodom & Gomorrah as well as Nineveh.

          • Covered California

            You don’t know what God is going to do so stop acting like it.

          • Crono478

            Read Romans 2 and you will see that God will judge each of us according to what we have done in this world.

          • Covered California

            I don’t debate theology. I wasn’t there, you weren’t there, no one can win those arguments. Have a nice evening!

          • Crono478

            Of course not, we were not there. God is our witness to what happened and it is recorded in Bible. That is how we know what happened.

            Do you believe that you are a good person?

          • Covered California

            No I do not.

          • Crono478

            How do you know that you are not a good person?

          • Covered California

            Ive lied, stolen, lusted, and hated people. I know this game/test, sir. 🙂

          • Crono478

            Right, by your own admission that you are a liar, thief, adulterous, and murderer, does that worry you if you died now and face God as Your Judge?

          • Covered California

            No because I’ve already repented of all that and haven’t done any of that since. 🙂

          • Crono478

            Do you believe that homosexuality is a sin?

          • Covered California

            Define homosexuality, since it seems like no one can agree on what it even means. Attraction, behavior, or..?

          • Ruth Davis

            Homosexality is a behavior and a choice.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            God is trying to save you through this person .

          • Covered California

            Ok thanks for the heads up lol

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            God LOVES you . Good night .

          • Covered California

            Thank you. Next time just don’t play God and I won’t be taken aback.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            How can Play God when I am not God ?? When we speak out we are not playing God as you say . We are trying to reach people for Christ . And because God has given us a Free will we can choose to receive or to reject.

          • Covered California

            I’d recommend changing approach. No one likes a holier than thou type telling you what to do.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            <

          • ReadLearnThink

            And you know that God told people to write a “Bible” and what to include in the Bible… HOW? The fact is you don’t know, and common sense tells us that God did not write or dictate, or inspire a “Bible.” Really? If he did, he really didn’t do a very good job of it. But he didn’t, so stop blaming God for your crazy beliefs.

          • Crono478

            It is like, we are part of jury at court. We were not there to see what crime that a defendant is accused of committing. The attorney and persecutor use testimonies by witnesses and evidence so we can decide if the accusation is indeed true.

            We were not there to witness what happened in the history before our birth. People witnessed what actually happened in the history and wrote in books so we can know about that.

            All of us did not see how everything began in the beginning, such as creation of earth and heavens, creatures and so on. God was there when everything happened and it is recorded in Bible.

          • Ruth Davis

            The WORD OF GOD CAN.

          • Covered California

            Then let IT. You, sweetheart, are not God. Take a seat. And if you were a Godly woman you would be humble and not giving authority over a man lol

          • Ruth Davis

            Just like I said the WORD OF GOD CAN AND IT WILL . Beside homosexuals have no authority over me and neither do you for that matter. You’re on here blasting everyone that has an opinion , you are no one’s judge . The WORD OF GOD WILL CONVICT YOU and it may have already began, that’s why you’re on these christian Web sites talking trash. Bye

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Please Pray for these people . I understand that not all will be saves but it would be nice to see these people become saved .

      • Danielmormon

        Very Good.

        • Crono478

          What is very good? God’s judgment that is to come?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            It is good to speak God’s Truth . Even if it is about God’s Judgment . Who knows how many you might reach .

          • Crono478

            Yes, it is good to speak God’s Truth. What I mean is, Danielmormon seems to say that God’s upcoming judgment is very good. While God is a perfect judge, He takes no pleasure in the death of wicked (Ezekiel 18:23). I don’t want to see any more people who die in their sins to be sent to Hell. It is a place where they would be eternally tormented.

            This is why I asked him both questions.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            🙂

      • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

        True Bible Believing Christians do Agree with you. Atheist and Carnal Christians will not agree with you ! .

    • Danielmormon

      Sin or the people who support it are not destroyed all at once,but eventually those who have willfully mocked every offer of grace from God will perish. They will not see pleasant days forever, and will wind up sitting in a pile of ashes, in the middle of a dung heap of their own making, weeping in the depths of misery

      • Covered California

        You’re mormon?

        • Danielmormon

          Yes!

          • Covered California

            Id avoid these forums like the plague, most “Christians” think you’re in a cult and on your way to hell.

          • ReadLearnThink

            Did you know that most evangelical Christians think that Mormons are a satanic cult and are headed for Hell? Do you understand how believing something might not make it true? If so, can you apply that to yourself?

          • Danielmormon

            Most people who think like that, have never been to our church, have a warped understanding of our doctrine,and believe non sense they have read in very poor source material. Christ has died for our sins and He lives!

      • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

        I agree with you !

    • Bolvon72

      As a matter of fact they are flourishing.

    • MC

      Um, you do know that the Netherlands has an HIV/AIDS epidemic among homosexual men, right?

      • The Last Trump

        He does now. 🙂
        These trolls and their “minor” details!
        Not about to let a small thing like facts get in their way.

        • Covered California

          I’m not a troll, I’m a human trying to understand how and why people think the way they do. This article is about gay marriage and HIV rates are brought up. What does gay marriage have to do with HIV? Oh yeah, nothing. If you wanna talk about HIV, let’s talk about Africa. Or does that not support your agenda?

        • Phipps Mike

          HIV is irrelevant. The point is that just because God destroyed a town in history because of supposed gay happenings, it doesn’t mean he’s going to do it AGAIN. Nowhere in the scripture does it say he will repeat that.

          • ReadLearnThink

            It never happened in the first place Phipps. Even some biblical scholars think that S & G was about hospitality, but nevertheless, it was probably a natural event — earthquake and volcanoes, etc. Then someone thought these events were from God and recorded it in a manuscript that they had no idea was going to end up in the JEWISH “holy book” and thousands of years later, the Christian “Bible.” Think about it.

      • Covered California

        The HIV rate among adults in the Netherlands is 0.2%, in the US it’s 0.6%. In places like Congo it’s 7%. And in Africa HIV is most commonly spread through heterosexual séx.Plus just being gay in general does not make someone gay. I don’t promote promiscuity. We’re talking about marriage…

        • nodoubt257

          You are a LIAR. Your “facts” are bogus.

          • Covered California

            Prove me wrong sweety. With facts, not your mouth.

          • Taussig

            proof, sweetie?

    • railhead

      Well, you reap what you sow, but in a different season than you sow. It’s not that we’re worried about everyone turning gay, or whether other countries do it. They also behead Christians in other countries and the sky hasn’t fallen. Right and wrong is not determined by popular opinion. You can lol when they start doing it here, I suppose.

      • Covered California

        Sorry but how are muslims beheading people related to gay marriage? I didn’t catch that in your comment

        • railhead

          Because they do that in a different country and the sky isn’t falling. If you’re going to use that logic, there are a lot of wicked practices that go on in other countries and the “sky doesn’t fall”, that doesn’t necessarily make them right.

          • Covered California

            How would gay marriage affect YOU personally?

    • Ruth Davis

      I don’t live in the Netherlands so what they do over there that’s on them, but here in america you have children killing themselves because they have lost their identities. I’m never going to agree to something I know for a fact isn’t normal or is wrong. Homosexality is a behavior that they have the power to change. For as many who hear the WORD OF GOD and turn away from sin GOD will forgive them. There is only one sin he will not forgive you for and that’s blaspheming the HOLY SPIRIT.

      • Covered California

        Typical “I don’t care about the rest of the world” American attitude. I’m.sure your ancestors appreciate that. And kids are killing themselves because they don’t have support, just wenches like you telling them they choose to be this way and are on their way to hell.

        • Ruth Davis

          You can call me what ever you want but the fact still remains these children are killing themselves not because their not feeling excepted , but because they entered a world of homosexality they did not understand. Why. Because grown men and women are raping them taking their virginity or their parents are to busy doing other things and not watching uncle John who they’ve never seen with a woman, but always asking little Todd to go get him a glass of water or aunt Liz who always playing and kissing on little Amanda. Take your jokes somewhere else cause I’m not kaughing.

    • akosipatriot

      The evil effects of same-sex marriage are long term. There are reports in the U.S. children now grown ups raised by same-sex couples were now voicing their concern. A woman who eas raised by a lesbian couple who is also a supporter of same-sex marriage now opposing it wanted to have a dad since she was a child. You see, and open your eyes, marriage is not pnly about the spouses, but about parenting and the effects on it to children. Depriving them of a father and a mother is destructive to their well beings. Just ask any children whose with divorce parents. Now God is merciful He doesn’t want anyone to perish so nations who support this may have time to repent. Like the example in the Scripture which you failed to comprehend, God allowed the Canaanites to live for 400 years until their wickedness is so great that God had to intervene and impose judgment using the Hebrews. In Sodom and Gomorrah God sent angels to destroy it. So 14 years? Too early, and if they do not repent and imposing more perversion and other wickedness, there will be judgment. Sexual perversion is just one of these sins that the ungodly world will commit, along with it are many sinfulness that if it becomes unbearable, God will punish that nation.

      • Covered California

        Can we at least ban single parents from parenting then? That’s not fair to deprive them of the other parent. Or are these cases unique? And that’s what happened with that daughter you spoke of. Her father, who was once in her life left And that was the void she felt.

  • Roodog

    The day is coming, that when the moral inversion is complete, America will seek to vomit Christ and Christianity out from its midst as Canaan vomited out their inhabitants in the days of Joshua.

  • Danielmormon

    I agree we are heading to the edge of hell and a terrible judgment from God.The only reason I believe that God has not taken us to the proverbial wood shed is the prayers of faithful followers of Christ from every church and denomination that have fallen on their face before our Creator have begged Him to remember mercy and grace, and to send a spiritual awakening, centered on Jesus Christ and repentance. May God save us, we are in dire straits, on the verge of being cut off and chastised to the point of death.

    • Brian_Joness

      Only way to help that is to help the poor and love thy neighbor. Not something that these overpriced lawyers are doing.

  • Truthhurts24

    America is already marked for destruction due to all the abortions,strange lifestyles, witchcraft, illegal wars, false media, hatred for the bible and so forth.

    • Bolvon72

      Bring it on, I’d like to see something instead of the nothing provided by your religion these many centuries.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Wake me up when it happens. Because so far, it hasn’t.

  • Eli Hernandez

    Though we are no longer under Old Covenant law, Leviticus chapters 17-18 are completely adopted into New Covenant Theology as Acts 15:28-29 shows. That our nation will sink rapidly into moral and social decay, even faster than it is already experiencing will definitely be the case.

  • Paul Hiett

    Ah yes…genocide of Native Americans won’t bring God’s judgement. Slavery won’t bring it. Civil war won’t bring it.

    Gay marriage…yep, that’s the catalyst that will bring God’s judgement.

    Do you people even think before you speak?

    • Danielmormon

      President Lincoln believed the war was terrible judgment from God

      • ReadLearnThink

        Well, if he did believe that, then he was wrong. The war was the result of man’s wrong doing and refusing to “grow up” and out of keeping other human beings as slaves. And, it was also about Lincoln’s decision to go to war too quickly, in my view. Everyone has their opinion about that, but it was not judgment from God.

    • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

      Sin brings God’s judgment to a Nation .Thia Nation is full of many sins . Many reject God. Many support the killing of the Unborn Human lives. The list is too long to write .

      • Bolvon72

        Yep killing babies for 40 years, Plenty of people rejecting your god for much longer. Where’s the judgement? Face it, your god must be a pansie.

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          When it comes remember your words and your Rejection of God . One day you will face the very one you rejected . You will see what you could have had .

          • Bolvon72

            Hanging out with xtians day in day out? Thanks, but no, if the people commenting here are any sign of what makes it to cloud city, I’ll stick with the sinners.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            How sad . You will not be alone . But you will not have the joy you think you will have . You will Regret your words ! You will regret your rejection of God . Your friends will not have time to party with you as you think they will. They will have their own regrets. Never alone but always lonely. Eternity is long .

          • Bolvon72

            Yep, eternity is long. Therefore your version of a god must be a sociopath.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Sigh !

          • MC

            Sometimes you just have to dust off your sandals LadyFreeBird and move on. God bless you.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Thank you . And yes sometimes we do shake that dust off . God Bless you too .

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            I have added you to my Prayer list. I will Stand in the Gap for your soul . (((IF))) it is God’s Will for you to be Delivered and to be saved . May His will for you to be done here as His Will is done in Heaven . In Jesus Name ! <

          • Bolvon72

            Nah, I’ve done the unforgivable sin… a lot, I wanted to make sure if I was wrong I wouldn’t have to worry with you folks. But have fun with your bedtime rituals, I should be off to do mine, (PS, it’s a lot more fun.)

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Your kind of fun is not eternal .

          • Bolvon72

            Yeah, five minutes, tops.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            If you have life in your body you still have time . It is only after the body dies that we can not be forgiven . Only if we die in our rejection of God and His Son . All sins can be forgiven if we repent while our body lives . The unforgivable can only happen after death . May the Holly Spirit open your eyes,ears,understanding and your heart. May the Will of God for you be done . Not your will , not my will but the Will of God .

          • Bolvon72

            I’m not sure what bible you’ve been reading.

          • ReadLearnThink

            Lady Free Bird, I have added you to my prayer list. I am going to pray that you stop damaging Christianity and slandering God.

          • ReadLearnThink

            Lady Free Bird, you are passing judgment. The truth is, you don’t know what will happen in the after life, and the fact that you think you do doesn’t make it true. And, in case you haven’t heard, many Christian denominations don’t share your beliefs, so why don’t you keep them to yourself and try not to give Christianity a bad name.

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          My God Loves Humanity enough to give them to repent . Because He loves us so much He have us a Free Will. So we can choose to love Him or to hate Him ! To receive Him or toy Reject Him .

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          ” Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

          But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:3-9

          • ReadLearnThink

            Yes, because these are the last days. God didn’t do anything about the brutal murderous wars fought all through the centuries. (It’s almost unbelievable to think that as a species we are actually LESS violent than we were 1000 or 2000 years ago, or even 200 years ago – as far as numbers of violent deaths from war and murders, but that is actually the case.) You are welcome to believe what you wish, but don’t force your ridiculous beliefs on others. Your freedom ends where another begins. And, the worst thing you have done is to claim to speak for God. So I suggest you repent. Good bye.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “(It’s almost unbelievable to think that as a species we are actually LESS violent than we were 1000 or 2000 years ago, or even 200 years ago – as far as numbers of violent deaths from war and murders, but that is actually the case.) ”

            Don’t be silly: you are forgetting the favorite war of a-theists and liberals (mostly redundant here): the War on the Womb. 57 million innocent and defenseless human beings in the womb morally murdered in Amerika alone. You think God is going to let you get away with being on the wrong side of the worst holocaust in human history?!?

            “You are welcome to believe what you wish, but don’t force your ridiculous beliefs on others.”

            Good argument for slavery and the Holocaust. You are welcome to believe what you want but do not force YOUR ridiculous beliefs on others, like:

            1. The universe miraculously popped into existence out of nothing uncaused by anything.

            2. Life magically sprang forth from non-life when lightning hit some mud (or the appeal to aliens, panspermia).

            3. Minds and morals evolved from molecules through monkeys.

            The rest of us do not have the blind faith for myths that you a-theists do.

            “Your freedom ends where another begins.”

            Tell it to your fellow baby killers!

            “And, the worst thing you have done is to claim to speak for God.”

            Quoting God’s Word is speaking for Him?!? That’s like you quoting Plato, and me saying you have spoken for him. God and Plato speak for themselves, absurdist.

            Besides, you are stealing from God in invoking objective moral values and duties. You are not allowed to do so, according to your “pope” and “cardinals:” https://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2014/01/16/an-atheist-explains-the-real-consequences-of-adopting-an-atheistic-worldview/ God bless you!

          • Celephais

            Really? You need to read some history. Communist Russia and China killed more people in the last 75 years of the 20th century than all the religious wars in history. Muslims killed or exiled over 150,000 Christians just in the last two years. As for “forcing beliefs on others,” how has anyone forced you to believe Christianity? You obviously don’t, so our beliefs have not been “forced on you.” If presenting our beliefs to you is “forcing them on you,” then you have done the same. And the Constitution guarantees the right to speak our beliefs to both of us. What do you find so threatening about a God who loves you enough to die for you?

          • Matt Fetterley

            These are the “last days” because you Christofascists are MAKING them the last days. One of you assholes would start WWIII if you thought it’d bring Jesus back… “NO MAN SHALL KNOW THE DAY”

        • Harry Oh!

          One million babies murdered each year, pornography capital of the world, one of the highest crime rates world-wide, highest debt of any nation on earth, highest number of prescriptions for insomnia and depression, hated by the rest of the world, 50% of the population is so poor they don’t file an income tax return, alcoholism and drug addiction is off the charts compared to other countries, 1 in 2 marriages fail, majority of kids grow up with a single parent……..are these signs of a nation that is blessed or cursed? Our God is very patient as the really bad stuff is yet to come, but you are unquestionably soft in the head.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I’ll need to see citations for all of that.

          • SashaC

            *crickets*

          • Matt Fetterley

            “Hated by the rest of the world…” Couldn’t have anything to do with our iron-fisted warmongering or predatory capitalism, could it???

        • Celephais

          His anger waits while His mercy gives you a chance to repent and turn to Him. But don’t be deceived; it sill surely come. Meanwhile, why are you so hostile? A God who doesn’t exist can’t be that much of a threat. Who are you really mad at?

          • Bolvon72

            Did you read the article?

          • Celephais

            Yes, and as I mentioned, I don’t think it is a very good approach to take to the Supreme Court of the US, which is (theoretically) governed by the Constitution. There is, however, a higher court than that, from which there is no appeal.

          • Bolvon72

            Well, then there is the reason for insulting remarks (note, not hostile) I and many like me are tired of listening to silly a-holes like these attorneys threatening everyone with their superstitions to deprive others of things that are in no way their concern. That goes for your above statement… silly a-hole.

          • Celephais

            Very well, since you feel that way, I will cast no more pearls in your direction.

      • ReadLearnThink

        You are stating that as fact, when there is absolutely no evidence for your statement. As far as abortion goes, I am against that. Just my opinion. But again, it has not brought “judgment” and it has been legal since the early 70s.

        • Jim Bart

          Complete judgement has not started yet because, The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. Psalm 103:8. But you can’t deny there has been some judgement on this world in the last 10 years. But at some point, not too far in the future He will Judge the un-Godly. Wise up, don’t be so proud, don’t be part of the foolish deceived group.

          Because he has appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; and of this he has given assurance unto all men, in that he has raised him from the dead. Acts 17:31

        • Celephais

          It has brought the judgment sin always brings: God leaves us in it until it brings us so close to chaos and despair that we repent and turn to Him. Look at the physical and psychological damage suffered by women who abort their children. Is this not a judgment? Look at the lack of respect for life at all stages which our casual murder of infants has fostered: people now call for killing the sick; women give birth and dump their babies in dumpsters; others propose killing babies born alive after botched abortions. Is this not a judgment? People shoot each other over arguments about a parking place! Is this not judgment? Open your eyes.

      • scottrose

        There is no “god.” You are delusional. And, when you’re dead, you’re dead. The thing is, you will discover that to be true, but you will have no way of communicating it to others. After you’re dead, you will not be able to return to life and say “Gee, I was wrong; heaven and hell are both fictional.”

    • Harry Oh!

      I’m betting that not a single Indian today would want to revert back to the lifestyle their ancestors had before the Europeans came, the slave trade was ended by Christians, the civil war was fought to end slavery in America. What planet are you from and why do you constantly stalk this website? Do you actually think you can change people’s minds with your misinformed, uneducated, dishonest psycho-babble?

      • Bill

        there are many native americans that try to keep their per-colonization culture alive. so you’re wrong as always.

        • Harry Oh!

          So do Italians, Chinese and Ukrainians. What does that prove? Maybe you should read more history and learn about the endless, bloody struggles that every country has waged on its neighbours. Indians themselves were constantly fighting each other. If you feel so bad about it, why don’t you move back to where you ancestors came from? But chances are that country was stolen from someone else and so on and so on.

      • ReadLearnThink

        This doesn’t change the fact that millions were slaughtered and wiped out through the white man’s diseases, then their land stolen from them, and herded into reservations like cattle. They had been on this land for 14,000 years. Yes, they were behind Europe in inventions, etc., but that is no excuse for cold blooded murder and theft.

      • ReadLearnThink

        If you were conceived and born as the result of a brutal rape, you would probably still be glad that you were born and are alive, but that wouldn’t make the brutal rape okay. So this is pretty much what you are saying about the Native Americans. “They’re doing okay now, so they are probably glad that their ancestors were murdered, kidnapped, raped, and slaughtered, and herded into reservations like cattle.”

        • Harry Oh!

          Every civilization in history has a tragic story like that. Countries are conquered and destroyed and then life’s goes on. The Indians themselves were doing it to each other before we got here. But in none of these cases has the conquering nation paid restitution for the next 200 years to the group they unseated. In Canada especially, First Nations live like kings and have huge power over Industry and Government. So please give the White Guilt thing a rest, it’s really pathetic.

      • roald

        The slave trade was started and perpetrated by Christians. That Christians also ended it, assuming you are correct, is commendable, but does make up for the rest.

        I know that I cannot change your mind. I just want to remind you that this great nation is made up of people with many opinions and beliefs.

        • Celephais

          Actually, the slave trade was also perpetrated by Muslims, for hundreds of years, and they are still at it today.

          • roald

            You are correct about the past (I don’t have enough information to comment on today). Although you did not imply to the contrary, that Muslims and others were involved, does not mean Christians were not part of both the problem and solution.

          • roald

            OK. That does not mean Christians did not help create, perpetuate, and end slavery in the US.

    • MisterPine

      Funny how they make so much more noise about gay marriage than anything in the ten commandments which MUST be more important in the eyes of Christians…yet gay marriage, which doesn’t make the “top 10” is treated as though it’s worse than all ten combined.

    • Celephais

      Maybe the Civil War was itself a judgment. Since the nation would not abolish slavery by itself, God allowed their sins to bring them to a place where they could only do it by violence.

  • Kansas_Guy_79

    Hi I’m gay and I love my partner. We’re just like you. We’re professionals. I’m a teacher and he’s in sales. We have a loving monogamous relationship. We watch Netflix in our PJs, we check out the newest tech at the Apple store, and we work weekends over coffee, pushing to get ahead and make a difference. We don’t need your support, but we’re not going anywhere, and we love you anyway. We want to get married because we love each other and that’s what people who love each other do. We bear you no ill will and don’t want you to hate us and we don’t hate you. Peace to you all!

    • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

      I do not agree with your life style . But I do not Hate you !

      • Kansas_Guy_79

        Thank you! I feel the good intentions from your message and we are thinking of you and wishing you the best too! God bless!

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          Thank you ! 🙂 Don’t ever forget the Love of God is above and beyond all Human Love ! And you both are loved .

          • chilegirl

            Again, any proof of this god thingie?
            Not your belief, but some real PROOF?
            If not, you’re just the same as the taliban.

          • canidtarega

            @ CHILE GIRL, TELL ME WHO IS TAKING THE CHRISTIANS TO COURT FOR THEIR MONEY, BECAUSE THE CHRISTIANS SPEAK THE TRUTH ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY, AND BECAUSE THE CHRISTIANS WON;T AGREE WITH THIS HORRIFIC ACT OF SIN?? YOU THE HOMOSEXUALS ARE FORCING OTHERS TO ACCEPT YOUR HORRIFIC SIN , SO YOU ARE THE ONES AS THE TALIBAN, ISIS MUSLIMS ISLAM NOT US, WE DON’T HATE YOU, WE HATE YOUR HORRIFIC LIFESTYLE OF HOMOSEXUALITY, IS NOT NORMAN, IS ABOMINATION TO GOD. HE CREATED ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN THAT IS FAMILY, THAT IS ORDER, NORMAL. WITHOUT A MAN AND A WOMAN NO HUMANS!!!! SO GOD IS RIGHT!!!!! YOU ARE WRONG. GOD BLESS YOU AND JESUS THE LORD OF MERCY HE FORGIVES SINS, BUT HATE SIN, NOT THE PERSON.

          • Penn_Patriot

            First off, All caps is RUDE! Quit screaming at people! It doesn’t surprise me that you want to force your fairy tale beliefs on the rest of the world. But, I will be fair. Your “god” is all knowing. Correct? Then your “god” should have no problem telling you the name of my first pet. So, kindly ask him to tell you and type it in your response. If he does this, I will believe 100 percent. And please, refrain from all caps in your response.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Never stop speaking the truth. If you use the caps it is okay.

        • ReadLearnThink

          Kansas Guy, you are awesome.

      • chilegirl

        Got some proof of this god thingie, Lady?
        Do you not see that you’re the same as the taliban, isis, etc. in the middle east – you want a theocracy.
        Tax the church, every single church for involving itself in the laws of the land.
        Pay to play or shout the F up.

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          God left all the proof and evidence for us to see. Some are too blind to see.

          • chilegirl

            So, you have nothing.
            Just your belief.
            You’re a liar, make a positive assertion and you have to prove it.
            I think the universe is pretty cool and there’s no make believe sky daddy in my life.
            If your god thingie is so powerful and amazing (just like a wizard!), how about he cure disease, fix an amputee, etc.
            You are delusional.
            And no better than the taliban.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            One day you will see that I did not lie. But you on the other hand…………………

          • chilegirl

            No.
            So you believe in some invisible sky daddy, with absolutely no proof, out of fear.
            Wow. That’s pathetic.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            I have no fear . But the day will come when you will see what TRUE FEAR is. When you meet my Sky Daddy you see just what you Rejected. I also ask that God will let me face you when you face God. As you are my accuser. See you on the other side of Life. <

          • chilegirl

            If you can’t prove your words, then you lie.
            Religion is a lie. You live a lie. You try to force your lies into our laws.
            Talk about delusional, evil people.
            Tax the church.
            Well, I hope you kill yourself soon so you can be with your make believe sky daddy.
            I live a good life here on the earth.
            Sadly, you live for what you fear.
            Glad you have a bible if that’s the only thing that keeps you from killing others. Sadly, it didn’t help with your lying.

          • Gravity

            @chilegirl:disqus I have plenty of proof….You wouldn’t believe me or understand. I do not stand before you to be judged, I stand before the Creator. I agree that some people just “believe” because they are told to, – and thus, I don’t go to certain churches…….Also, Christian “dogma” is off, when it comes to scripture, in certain areas, which bugs me….

          • rbiermann

            Here is a different way to look at this. Marriage was not, and never was, a creation of the State, it came from “religion,” and tradition. For centuries, the State was never involved in the marriage process. Go back to the middle ages, and King Henry the VIII. When he wanted to divorce his wife, Anne Boleyn, did he seek a divorce from the “State?” No, he sought it from the church. If he believed that the “state” had the legal power over marriage, he could have done that on his own, as he was the “state.” Even in the early days of this republic, the state did not interfere with marriage. It is only when some states pass laws forbidding inter-racial marriage was the idea of a state issued marriage license even invented, and the purpose of the “license” was (for a fee) to permit an inter-racial marriage. Because of state intervention, we now have a complex legal system regarding marriage, and a forced clientele for lawyers. . In the early 1900’s, a minister was an agent of the church, NOT an agent of the state. If a same sex couple wants to get married, there are plenty of accommodating “churches” and (Elvis impersonators), along with plenty of photographers, catering services, florists, dress/suit makers and anything else you could desire to make it happen. When the Constitution was written, neither the Federal or State governments were in the marriage business. So how can the Constitution create a “right” on an issue that is not even enumerated to the Federal Government? This entire same-sex marriage issue is not about equal rights, it is about diminishing the influence of the church, and tradition.

          • canidtarega

            Dear, rbiermann, i don’t care of any human opinion, but i stand for the word of God the Bible is absolutely right. He created one man and one woman that is family that is order. With out a man and a woman no humans so GOD AND HIS WORD THE BIBLE IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. GOD BLESS YOU, JESUS IS LOVE BUT ALSO JUDGMENT HE HATES SIN, BUT LOVE THE PERSON.

          • Penn_Patriot

            Yes, the old believe or BURN! LMFAO! How is this not different from everything the terrorists do??? Love me or fry for all eternity. THAT is not love!

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            You do not understand true *LOVE*. And *TRUTH* . But the day is coming you will Shalom <
            One thing to remember your Rejection was through your own choice. You will have no one to blame but yourself. Shalom <

          • Penn_Patriot

            It’s you that clearly do not understand love. Love isn’t bearing your child to death for spilling the milk. Love isn’t burning your child with gasoline for stealing a piece of candy. Maybe you are flippin crazy in the head and think that is Love. I sure as hell don’t. Punishing a “FINITE” error with “INFINITE” torture isn’t love. Your “god” condones slavery, rape, murder and genocide. You have Stockholm syndrome. Save your hell fire and brimstone, I don’t believe in it or your angry, sadistic, psychotic skydaddy. EVERYTHING in your book was stolen from previous religions and cultures. Your god is a thief. Nuff said.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Why would ((((YOU)))) kill a child for spilling milk?? Why would ((((YOU))) pour gasoline on a child for stealing a piece of candy??? Why would (((YOY))) do all that to a child??? Are (((YOU))) Mentally sick? You must be like my mom. She abused me as a child. There is HELP for people like YOU.. Get the Help you need . Shalom <

          • Penn_Patriot

            How do you not get this?! Your god sits and watches children get murdered by their parents EVERYDAY and does NOTHING! YOUR GOD WATCHES MILLIONS OF KIDS EVERYDAY GET SEXUALLY MOLESTED EVERYDAY AND DOES NOTHING! YOUR GOD WATCHES MILLIONS OF CHILDREN STARVE TO DEATH EVERY YEAR AND DOES NOTHING! YOUR GOD LET YOUR MOTHER ABUSE YOU AND DID NOTHING!!!! FUCK YOUR GOD AND FUCK YOU!

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            You seem like that kind of thingy . You have a heart full of (((((((HATE)))))))
            The day will come when you meet your gOD Satan .May be you can do that to him. you are Heartless,Hateful,Evil,Nasty,Rude and much more but I do not have mouth full of sewer like you do………………………
            My being alive is a miracle. God saved my life more than once. I should be dead.
            May ALL the hate,Abuse and the evil you feel for me,God Jesus and all the Bible believing Christians RETURN to YOU Seven fold !!! May the Peace,Love and Protection of God Rest on us to whom you hate so much. May ALL you have done to all Christians on line and off line in your time of ((((HATE AND ABUSE)))) Return to you in FULL MEASURE !! Above and beyond what you have said and done .

          • Penn_Patriot

            Let’s get this straight. One, your sin of pride got the best of you I see. Two, I don’t hate you. You have a mental disease. Three, I don’t hate your god. He doesn’t exist. Four, you have violated the teachings of Jesus. You believe me speaking truth is evil. For doing so you have tried to put a curse on me.1 Peter 3:9 “Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.” Romans 12:14 “Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.” Romans 12:17 “Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.” Luke 6:27 “But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,” I guess you skipped those parts huh. That’s ok, I’m used to you false christians cherry picking your scriptures. May your own lord rebuke you for that. LOL Trying to put a curse on me “seven fold” lol means you’re practicing witchcraft. Your stupid curse has no power over me hypocrite. I don’t fear you, your powerless curse or your god. Have a nice day psycho.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            May the God of Creation Open your eyes to the true (((spirit))) Behind your Hate and you abuse ! You (((CURSE)))) your self through your hate and your abuse . It will return to you !!!

          • Penn_Patriot

            Now you are trying to change the fact that you tried to put a curse on me. You try to justify breaking your own scriptures. You are a self-righteous hypocrite. Shut your pie hole while you are ahead witch. You are just digging your hole deeper. I don’t hate you. You need mental help.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            YOUR HATE and your ABUSE be upon your own head and life .

          • Penn_Patriot

            Too late witch. You can’t justify your witchcraft. You can’t justify you rendering evil for my supposed evil. You can’t justify you cursing me instead of blessing me like your Jesus told you.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Not a witch. Now if I was……………………………
            You would be toast.
            No you see it is your evil.hate and Abuse that is and will return to you. All that ((((((((YOU)))))))) have given shall return to you . Better for it to be in this life than the After life. The after life is Eternal and can not be STOPPED.
            Also I will say ((((((((IF))))))))) it is God’s Will for you to be Delivered from the spirits within you and your life and for your Salvation . May His Will be done here as it is done in Heaven in the Name of Yeshua. But until then your hate,your Abuse will return to you. And Peace and Protection will rest on every Christian you have Hatted,Hurt and Abused in your life time.
            Hopefully it is the Will of God for you to be Delivered and Saved through Salvation. His Will be done not mine.

          • Penn_Patriot

            You are a with. YOU tried to put a curse on me. As for being toast LMFAO! I’ve faced off against psycho witches. They had no power either. You committed a sin of witchcraft. Your book not mine declares that. You committed the sin of pride. Your book says your destruction is coming. Not mine. I hate all RELIGION. I don’t fear you. I don’t fear your imaginary god. I don’t fear your imaginary devil. I don’t fear witches, warlocks, demons, satanists, or the boogieman. You can LIE all you like. You tried to curse me. Your book says you will pay for it. Now get lost Psycho. Go talk to your zombie Jesus. Let him beat your ass for disobeying his words. I’m done with you psycho.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Did you know that Jesus cursed a fig tree??????????????????????

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Do you know what happened to the fig tree????????????????

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Did Jesus commit a sin by cursing the fig tree?????????????

          • canidtarega

            NO, BECAUSE HE IS THE SON OF GOD, HE AND HIS FATHER CREATED THE FIG TREE.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Amen.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            He took out the tree from the roots. The tree died.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Your Hate,Evil,Abuse and all that you do to Christians will return to you.

          • Penn_Patriot

            Now you are actively using deception and deleted the post where you tried to put a curse on me. To bad I screen shot it. You make me sick witch. If you didn’t try to curse me why delete it? LOL You serve your father the devil. Isn’t that what you say to people who don’t buy your bullshit. LMFAO TOO SWEET!

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            In the Name of Jesus I Rebuke the Demons that are controlling ((Pen_Patriot)) In the Name of Jesus I rebuke the ((Evil)) inside ((Pen_Patriot)) In the Name of Jesus I rebuke all Hindering spirits that are keeping ((Pen_Patriot)) From receiving Deliverance and Salvation.
            Father God in the Name of Jesus I ask that you Deliver and save ((Pen_Patriot)) From all the Demons in him and in his life. In the of Yeshua I Pray Amen Shalom <

          • Penn_Patriot

            I didn’t give you permission to pray for me witch. I don’t have any demons witch. I reject your prayers. They are useless. Vain ramblings to an imaginary deity. I am a fair person. I will give you the same chance I give every religious person. Ask your “god” the name of my first pet. If he/she/it tells you, I will repent of all my “sins” and serve him/her/it forever. Surely your all knowing “god” knows the name of my first pet.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            You don’t need it. God has given it to me. God can do what I can not to. With God all things are Possible. You do have Demons within you and in your life. That is one reason you have such a (((Hate))) For Both Christians and God You need Deliverance from these Demons in order to come to God and to receive Salvation through Yeshua. I do not ask God to know your first pets name. I do not want to know it. You already know what it is. You have an attitude of Evil. God does not have to prove anything to (((((You))))) . He left Proof that HE exist. But Satan has blinded you to that Proof. Until the Demons within you are Bond and Removed you will be unable to believe no matter what someone says to you.

          • Penn_Patriot

            LOL proof eh? The best theologians and archaeologists in the world cannot prove Jesus ever existed. Your old testament creation story was stolen from the sumerians. Your resurrection story was stolen from the egyptians, It’s all bullshit. I preached that bullshit for over 20 years. Then I used my brain and became a berean. I searched it all out. The old testament god couldn’t even tell the difference between a bat and a bird. I don’t hate you witch. I hate your delusional fairy tales. I hate your fear mongering. If someone rejects your bullshit, you say they have demons lol. I have zero demons. Hell, even your idea of demons was stolen from the Qu’ran. They are called Jinn. Your entire book is plagiarized fairy tales of other religions.
            Of course you didn’t ask your non-existent god what the name of my first pet is. Because, if the name you are given is wrong then you and your so called god are proven to be false. You are blinded by fear. Your mind is closed to the truth. I’m done with you. Save your prayers. I don’t need them. But, if you want to “stand in the gap”, just make sure its the gap between the platform and the subway. One less fear mongering idiot in the world makes it a better place.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Yawn !! <

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            With God all things are possible . Even your Deliverance and your Salvation! For that I praise Yesua!!! The Son of God. Standing in the Gap is standing Between you and Eternity Through Prayer and Fasting. Fighting for your soul. Sometimes it takes a lifetime.There are only a few that am Standing in the Gap for. If the Holy Spirit tells me to do so I will. God has given me His Peace . Through my Trust and my Faith in God and Yeshua I Stand in the Gap for you. Standing in the Gap is also.Standing between the person and Satan as well.
            < Shalom <

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            P.S. Demons were not stolen from the Qu’ran. Demons were here since the fall of the Angels. When Satan Rebelled against God. All Demons are the fallen Angels.
            The Demone you have are very Strong. But not a strong As Yeshua And God. Your Deliverance will be hard but not Impossible.But until that time comes you will reap the Evil,the Hate and the Abuse that you and your Demons send to the Christians. And Peace and Protection will rest on the Christians .
            < The Demons you have in you Hate you as much as they Hate God and all His Creation. (((if))) you were to die in your Rejection . The same Demons with in you will be the ones to torment you.They will tell you what you could have had.
            < Shalom <

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            You have the spirits of Hate,Anger,Abuse,Rejection,Rebellion just to name a few.. You have more within you and in your life. Only God will be able to Deliver you. For this reason I am willing to Stand in the Gap for you. Even though you have showed me nothing but (((Hate and Abuse))) I will be in the Gap for you until the day I die.
            < God< Is< Not<Dead< Shalom <

          • canidtarega

            DEAR, LADY FREE BIRD. 3 BILLION OF CHRISTIANS STAND WITH YOU , BECAUSE YOU ARE FOR THE TRUTH, GOD’S WORD THE BIBLE IS THE TRUTH THE WHOLE BIBLE, JESUS IS THE ONLY TRUTH, THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER GOD. BIBLE ONLY WORD OF GOD AND JESUS. JESUS LOVES YOU GOD BLESS . FOR EVERMORE. HE IS COMING NOT TO DIE ANYMORE, BUT TO JUDGE.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Thank you. God is great. May God Bless you:)

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Pen_Patriot)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
            The Bible says what you sow you, shall reap . You are Sending your Hate and your abuse to the Christians. What you are sending to them will return to you, the the sender. The hate and Abuse you are sowing to the Christians You shall reap. You sow hate you shall reap your hate. You sow Abuse you shall reap your Abuse.

          • Shosh 7154

            G-d does not send anyone to Hell. Sin does. The Son of G-d came here to offer a gift of full payment for the penalty of sin which is Hell. Why would anyone choose to die in sin when the L-rd Jesus has given us His own righteousness by way of the death penalty and going to Hell for each one of us? Why will you choose to enter outer darkness in unspeakable eternal loss at the hour of your death ?

          • canidtarega

            SHOSH, JESUS DIED FOR US , TO SAVE US FROM HELL OF HORROR. HELL IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE. I WAS DEAD I SAW IT IS HORRIFIC. HE GAVE ME ANOTHER CHANCE. NOW I LIVE ONLY FOR HIM . JESUS IS THE ONLY SAVIOR. OTHERS ARE FALSE PROPHETS OF LIE. BUT JESUS OF THE BIBLE IS THE ONLY REAL ONE.

      • Avi

        I’m gay and I’m Jewish. My rabbi supports me and encourages me to seek happiness because Torah says it is not good for man to be alone. He also tells us that some Christians believe in wanting to convert us for fear that we will ‘not be saved.’ I respectfully say thanks for your concerns, but would tell you I disagree with your conclusions as to what G-d wants from me. Shalom!

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          Shalom !

        • canidtarega

          AVI, YOU ARE A MUSLIM A LIAR, HATER OF JEWS AND CHRISTIANS, YOU ARE THE ONES WHO BURN BEHEAD THE HOMOSEXUALS, BUT WE PRAY FOR THEM, BECAUSE WE ONLY LET THEM KNOW THE SIN OF HOMOSEXUALITY, BUT NOT HATE, NOT KILL, AS THE MUSLIMS ISIS ISLAM ALLAH QURAN BURKA MOSQUE PALESTINE HAMAS JIHADS OF EVIL.

          • Penn_Patriot

            Yeah you leave that dirty work up to your sadistic god to burn them for eternity.

        • canidtarega

          IF YOU ARE A HOMOSEXUAL TEACHER POOR CHILDREN. IN JUNIPERO SERRA SCHOOL A LITTLE BOY GOT RAPED SODOMIZED BY HOMOSEXUAL TEACHER, THE LITTLE 8 YEAR OLD BOY WAS NEAR DEATH, MOST DIE IN HORROR OF RAPE IN THE HANDS OF HOMOSEXUALS . THE SAME WAS HAPPENING IN SODOM AND GOMORRAH, GOD HEAR THE CRY OF THOSE POOR INNOCENT CHILDREN, AND GOD BURNED ALL OF THOSE HOMOSEXUALS OF EVIL THEY WANTED TO RAPE LOTE ALSO, AND THE TWO MAN OF GOD WHICH GOD SEND TO HELP LOT; FROM THE HOMOSEXUALS, AND SAVE ONLY LOTE. HOMOSEXUALITY IS ABOMINATION TO GOD, HE CREATED ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, THAT IS FAMILY THAT IS NORMAL, THAT IS ORDER. WITHOUT A MAN AND A WOMAN NO HUMANS!! SO GOD IS RIGHT!! AND YOU THE HOMOSEXUAS ARE WRONG!!!! HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A RACE SO IS NOT RACISM TO SPEAK AGAINST THIS HORRIFIC LIFESTYLE OF SIN. YOU WANT TO FORCE THIS SIN TO US, THE PEOPLE OF GOD AND JESUS, WE WILL NOT ACCEPTED, AND WE WILL GO TO COURT FOR OUR RIGHTS OF FREE SPEECH, AND RELIGION FREEDOM AND RESPECT FOR OUR BELIEVE. HATE AGAINST A LIFESTYLE OF SIN IS NOT RACISM NOT HATE. SO STOP ACCUSING US THE CHRISTIANS OF HATE, BECAUSE , YOU ARE THE HATEFUL ONES AGAINST US, AND WANT TO FORCE US, WE WILL NOT LET YOU, WE WILL UNITE, WE ARE MILLIONS AND YOU ARE FEW. GOD BLESS YOU. FINALLY WE WILL STAND FOR OUR GOD AND HIS WORD THE BIBLE BECAUSE HE IS RIGHT.

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    • Crono478

      Kansas_Guy_79, do you believe that you are a good person?

      • Kansas_Guy_79

        I try to live and work by good acts. I practice kindness and I support those who struggle. But I am not perfect by any means! I make mistakes and try to become better. I know that when I’ve erred it’s because I was thinking of myself above others. Best wishes to you Crono478.

        • Crono478

          All with what you said about yourself, do you believe that you will make to Heaven when you die?

          • Kansas_Guy_79

            Kindness to you, Crono478. I don’t know what will become of me after death, only that I want to live well and be good toward others while I’m alive.

          • Crono478

            Why do you not know what will become of you after death? Have you ever thought about this before?

          • ReadLearnThink

            Of course he doesn’t, Crono478, and guess what? Neither do you. You just THINK you do, which is NOT the same as “knowing.” Get a life, and try to be a good person.

          • Crono478

            No, I am not a good person. I lied, stole things, and looked at women with lust. I used God’s name in vain. It does not matter how I can try to be good person. What I did is still known to Him.

            It is like a criminal who committed crimes. He would try to make up for it by being a good person. However, the judge must look at evidence and testimonies by witnesses. That is how the judge will decide if the criminal is guilty or not. “Goodness” in this person is irrelevant. God is the same way,

    • alyssa4

      You could still be gay and make it to heaven. We are not saved by what we’ve done but saved by what Jesus Christ has done. At the day of the cross Jesus was punished for our sins so we don’t have to look forward to God’s judgement if you’re a believer. So just accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savoir and your saved. Even though being gay is not right we all still struggle with our own sin. So its not fair to be pointing to gay people when we all struggle with our own sin as well.

      • Kansas_Guy_79

        love and peace to you alyssa4

      • Gary

        Respectfully, Alyssa, I’d like to share that it’s more than “believing” something. I’m sure you already know this, but I’ll share it for my own edification and anyone else who choses to read this.

        James 2:17-18 says, “”Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” After discussing Abraham’s faithfulness to God by the demonstration (works) of his faith, James adds in verse 24, “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

        However, for many, their faith never translates into “works.” James points out in chapter 2:19, that “the devils also believe and tremble.” To only “believe” Jesus exists — to only give Him a mental assent — is to have the same faith as the demons do. They “believe and tremble.”

        True faith is measured in action. True faith changes the heart, and a change in the heart changes character. A change in character changes behavior. True faith engenders obedience to our Creator. Jesus said in Luke 6:46, “Why call ye me Lord, Lord and do not the things which I say?” And again in John 14:15, “If ye love me keep my commandments.”

        James 1:27 tells us, “Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.” These are acts of faith demonstrated in works.

        Paul also wrote in Romans 12:2, “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God.” Are we allowing the evil one to keep our minds busy with useless TV shows and movies? Are we listening to the music of the world or music that glorifies the Lord? Are we praying and working for the salvation of other while there is still a moment of time? These are the works of faith that mold our character.

        “Doing things” will not save us. Only Christ’s spotless life and death on the cross for our sins can do that. However, or behavior demonstrates which leader we are following — our Redeemer or the arch apostate.

        Finally, Christ, “Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him” (Hebrews 5:7-9). We must learn obedience to the Word of God and not our fallen nature. Through Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit, we may have victory over the fallen nature.

        May God continue to richly bless you.

      • CeLia Legoskey Dismuke

        You could be Gay and still make it to Heaven?
        Please tell me your joking! God’s word says No sin will enter Into his kingdom, GOD doesn’t make mistakes, he calls this lifestyle an abomination, their is NO such thing as a Gay Christian, a gay person might believe in GOD, but their Not a Christian, to be a Christian means to be CHRIST -like, and there’s nothing CHRIST -like about being gay, JESUS wasn’t gay, !!, he was sinless! People are really blind these days!

        • Ruth Davis

          This us what the homosexuals need to hear, not what they want to hear.

        • raytheist

          If a heaven exists, gays will be there, murderers will be there, prostitutes will be there, tax collectors will be there…

      • Harry Oh!

        Therein lies the problem, Gays don’t consider what they do sin and therefore they don’t struggle with it. In fact they do quite the opposite and justify, defend and exalt their sin as normal, healthy and even blessed by God.

    • MC

      Remember, doing “good works” doesn’t get you into heaven. Only following Jesus through faith can, and turning against sin, like the sin of homosexuality. No one hates you, we love you enough to tell you that homosexuality is a sin and sin leads to death. Only through Jesus can you be saved. Also, I’m surprised you’re in an Apple Store and not on the outside boycotting it considering they do multi million dollar deals with a country that puts gays to death for fun and sport.

      • Kansas_Guy_79

        Love and light to you MC, and to those you hold dear. Thank you for reminding me to be mindful of those with circumstances so much harder than mine. They will be in my heart, as will you.

        • ReadLearnThink

          Again, Kansas Guy, you are really patient with these people. You see the best in people. Please know that there are many of us out there who support equal rights for all.

      • Phipps Mike

        sin leads to death? really? I know a guy who sins daily and is 55 years old. Sin may lead to bad things, but it doesnt KILL you.

        • CeLia Legoskey Dismuke

          My guess is you don’t believe in the Bible? Because it states “The Wages Of Sin is Death” Yes sin will kill you, were all sinners, but GOD loves us so much, that he saves those who ask to be forgiven, God’s grace isn’t an excuse to keep doing whatever we want because we think GOD will keep forgiving us, pretty soon God’s gonna have enough of the sin, and his wrath will be poured out, but hey, don’t take my word for it, just sit back and wait, we’ll soon see!

          • Phipps Mike

            read what Dream Theatre said to me. He is right, and if you think “physical death”, you are wrong.

            “and his wrath will be poured out”

            wrong, Jesus died to END Gods wrath until judgment day. Also, judgment day will NOT come any quicker, no matter what we do. God is coming on the day that he had already planned to.

          • Lorie Ann Wise

            blah blah blah

          • chilegirl

            Really, you do believe in the bible?

            It’s filled with contradictions and not one word in the old testament speaks of being gay.
            Most people then couldn’t read or write.
            Wow.

        • Dream Theater Moment of Reason

          Spiritual death, not physical death. There is a difference.

          • Phipps Mike

            thank you. At least SOMEBODY in here is smart enough to not be a dumb doomsayer. I notice there is a correlation of people who are into music more, seem to be more intelligent and have more common sense than those who dont.

          • Dream Theater Moment of Reason

            Thank you sir. Very kind of you to say that.

        • Danielmormon

          All sin leads to spiritual death without Christ

          • Phipps Mike

            spiritual, yes, physical no.

        • Shosh 7154

          Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shaped in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

          James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

          If you sin, you will die. Sin is why everyone dies. There is a time coming when death will be ended. 1Co 15:54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

          1Co 15:55 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”

          • Phipps Mike

            ” Sin is why everyone dies.”
            no it isnt. Adam and Eve would have died even if they hadn’t sinned. Get with the program.

          • Shosh 7154

            James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

            Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..

            Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

            They would never have died and all their unborn children would never have died had they not sinned (disbelieved G-d and acted against His stated commandment) because G-d created man in HIS OWN IMAGE, ETERNAL AND WITHOUT SIN ….but sin when it is conceived it corrupts and when sin reaches maturity, it kills. The Law of Sin and Death is even more binding than the law of gravity which is only effective within the earth’s gravitational pull, but no matter how far you travel in space, your sin never leaves you. Only when you ask the L-rd Jesus to remove your guilt by His blood sacrifice for you personally will you be free from the charge of guilt in which all people are conceived and born into.

            L-rd please give Mike the ability to understand the eternal law of sin and death so that he can come to Your Son Who alone has the power to remove Mike’s sin forever and to set Mike free from the prison of lies and deception which is eternal separation from You L-rd in a place of unspeakable loss, weeping and wailing and grinding of teeth in outer darkness forever. Thank You L-rd for loving Mike so much You became guilty and died and entered Hell for three nights and days for Mike so that Mike would never be separated from You at death if he opens his arms to receive Your Son before he dies. Amein.
            I have known the L-rd for many years now and He has never failed to give me what no one else can…the assurance that I am loved without measure not for who I am but for Who He is.

          • Paul Goodnough

            Shosh7154,, if as in your statement above..”Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” then the staement is in a fallicy.. G-D in Genisis, is pronouned in the Masculine, and if He made man in His Image, then there would have been no need for woman. If G-D had made man to live forever, then he wouldnt have needed to make woman as companion as there would not have been a need for procreation. This is all about Belief.

            The Establisment Clause of the First Admendment of the Constitution prohibits the establishment of one Belief over another. In establishing the “Christian” form of Marriage as the only LEGAL ( Contractually Speaking) form, ( think insurance, Health, Survivours, et al) then It establishes the Abrahimic Tradition as the “State Religions” over All Other Forms of Belief. In doing so, especially if that belief is solely “Christian” would make the US as a Chrstian Theocratic Ogligarcy with a Religious Court that could rival Sharia Law of the Muslims for the “non Christian Unbelievers”

            . That in My opinion IS the question at Hand. If Marriage is a Sacred Institution, then get the Marriage License and “benefits” ( tax, Insurance, Health, and ANY other form of Contractual Union) out of the Act of Marriage. And let The Couple be Married by the Spiritual Agent as witness between them and their Diety.

            If The State and National Governments want to License Marriages, then IT IS a Contractual Agreement and Union and not a “Sacred Institution”.

          • Gravity

            Fine, change it to “civil union”. Two homosexuals will never be married, regardless what the law says. As for the Constitution, they didn’t want one Christian sect to be “established” as the religion of the US, BUT the early drafts of the 1st amendment had the word “Christian” in it….”Congress shall make no law establishing an Christian religion”….I can only guess they took it out because of their few Jewish and “Catholic” (I remember when I was a kid, Catholics did not call themselves “Christians”) friends. Also, the Bible says God is a spirit and does not have a form, that he is not male or female..The male and female are the ying and yang of God’s nature. He is referred to as a male to denote authority, power, strength, etc. As for death, scientists don’t know why it seems our cells have a “clock” which brings the repair and regrowth to an end and then organs start malfunctioning and failing…..

          • Gravity

            God wanted more people on earth as companions, than just two – Adam and Eve – so he made it so they could have children. He’s waiting to send His son Christ back, to sit as Savior and Lord of the world, until “all have come to the knowledge of the truth”….(I’m paraphrasing).

        • Lorie Ann Wise

          they say the dumbest shit, dont they????? we all face death. I for one, have had all my catholic sacrements AND was “saved” a few years back..guess what? STILL A LESBIAN.

        • Shosh 7154

          There is a death that results from sin from which ends in outer darkness, unspeakable loss, weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. This is the road that Yeshua (Jesus) spoke about here: Mat 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Mat 7:14 “Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

        • Gravity

          Humans were originally made to live forever. That is why death is so shocking. What’s the saying? – “the minute you are born you are in the process of dying.”

      • ReadLearnThink

        I’m not gay, but sometimes we have to do business with other countries in order to stay competitive. All we can do is speak out for human rights in our own country, and hopefully the rest of the Middle East and other countries who are backward on women’s rights, gay rights, and other human rights will see our example, and the example that other more forward thinking countries such as Canada and much of Europe sets for the world (regarding human rights). I might also point out that the CEO of Apple came out as gay in the last few years, and has tried to do his part to educate people regarding the FACT that gays are born this way. (Please don’t argue — argue with the scientists if you want to argue this established point.) So it is not a “lifestyle.” If you never have a marriage or an intimate partner, you are still heterosexual, and you know that. Same with being gay. Just ask a gay person. In 100 years this will be water under the bridge in this country, and it might take the Middle East another 300 years, but they, too, will eventually catch up. Anyway, back on topic, maybe it is you who should boycott Apple and the other 500 major corporations who have signed on to the SCOTUS brief supporting marriage equality, both before the DOMA ruling, and again, leading up to the June ruling.

        • MC

          No, I don’t have a problem with Apple doing business with those countries. Jesus said Christians would be persecuted for following him, even 600 years before Islam was invented. So if we are not persecuted by Muslims, we’re persecuted by someone else. If gays don’t care, oh well. Other than that, I’ll wait until I actually see a study, that says there is 100% empirical verifiable scientific evidence that a tiny minority are born gay. So far no scientist worth his salt has made that claim. Theories? Yes. 100% solid smoking gun scientific proof? Not yet. One theory is that if they are born that way then it would be like any other birth defect, like mental retardation, that only affects a small unlucky few, or schizophrenia. So far the scientific method is silent on the matter. You can say what you want, it’ll be irrelevant anyway to me. I’ll wait for scientific evidence.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Science will very likely get there. But, will you accept it when it does?

            If you don’t accept evolution with all of its scientifically proven evidence, or accept the actual age of the Earth (about 4.5 billion years), or accept the actual age of our known Universe (about 13.8 billion years), then don’t fool yourself into thinking you’d “accept” a scientific explanation for homosexuality when it’s finally arrived at.

            As you said, it’s irrelevant to you, just as you know you’re straight, they know they’re not. But if you *do* accept the above as fact, then good on ya’! You’re already a few steps ahead of many people on this site. ; )

          • MC

            No, being born that way is still not an excuse, they still would have to turn away from it. All it would prove is that it’s a birth defect. As for the age of the earth, I’m an old earth creationist.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Well, right one out of three is pretty good!

          • Matt Fetterley

            Explain this to me, if they are born that way, doesn’t that mean that GOD MADE THEM THAT WAY? You just negated your entire argument.

          • Disqusdmnj

            They think that it’s just a mental defect, like someone who’s a serial killer or pedophile. It’s something that just because you are one, doesn’t mean it’s a reason to act on it. While it’s a complete and utter BS comparison, they are on the same level to a fundie.

          • MC

            All evil came into the world AFTER the fall. That includes homosexuality, that’s why everyone is conceived and born in sin. Use logic in your argument next time.

          • chilegirl

            Oh, please.
            So, Adam and Eve were the first two people on earth.
            How many times was Eve pregnant (more than the clown-car Duggars)? And to her sons and … tell me, how does that go?

          • chilegirl

            Hey, they’re christers; they’re all hypocrites.
            Also hateful, out and out liars, etc.

          • canidtarega

            MATT, GOD DID NOT CREATED; HOMOSEXUALS GAY, IS ABOMINATION TO HIM. IT IS A DECISION TO BE THAT WAY. HE HEAR THE CRY OF INNOCENT CHILDREN BEEN SODOMIZEED, RAPE, BY THIS EVIL MAN, IN SODOM AND GOMORRAH SO GOD DESTROYED THOSE TWO EVIL CITIES .

          • Gravity

            Except that there are numerous “holes” in the THEORY of Evolution.

          • Disqusdmnj

            A real SCIENTIFIC “theory” means that it is essentially proven until as much scientific research and testing has determined there is another explanation… as in the “theory” of gravity. You pretty much know that if you jump off a cliff, you’re going to head down, and probably are smart enough to not need to test that theory.

            Yes, there may be a few things that haven’t been ironed out fully, as in many scientific theories. But don’t confuse your misunderstanding of science and the English language with the small-minded, unproven concept of “intelligent design”.

            So… no.

          • Gravity

            The devil is the father of lies.I think we need a standard. We all have shit we are dealing with. The standard for marriage is heterosexual. I grew up, for the most part, without a dad….NOT GOOD. Homosexual “marriage” is not equal to heterosexual marriage. Make it so it’s all “civil union” or change the government paperwork so it is “marriage/civil union”….and leave the government out of it.

          • Disqusdmnj

            The government *can’t* be left out of it, because there are specific rights and benefits that the government affords *only* to married couples – that’s the entire point of the SSM argument. The churches will be left out of it, as no church will be forced to administer a SSM, regardless of what those nutters on the right want you to believe. But what you want to do is deny one group of people the rights that another group is afforded because it hurts your religious sensibilities. That goes against our Constitution. And while I feel bad for anyone who grows up without a parent in the picture, the idea here is that some people will be able to grow up with *two* parents who just happen to have the same parts. Isn’t that a better alternative?

          • Gravity

            Wow, it’s so much more than just having the “same parts”. Male and female are yin/yang. They parent differently. “Mothering and Fathering” (amazon) go into detail on this. By nature, the child starts to hang out more with their parent at about 10 or 11 or so. Fathers (because of their hormones, brain structure, etc.) push children more, while moms want to keep them safe. To much to go into here, but it is much more than just “parts”.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Sure, there are differences between men and women. So what? Does that mean that this is the only parental system that should be allowed? Should single parenting be abolished? Should a mother who’s husband passes away be forced to marry another man to have a co-parent to her child? Pretty sure there’s a bible passage in there somewhere about that, if said deceased had a brother. Or maybe she should marry her rapist and be forced to marry him before the child is born? That’s got to be way better to you than a child with two dads, right?

            Should the chance for an orphan to be adopted by a SSM couple be prohibited because it’s not *ideal*? What about an orphan being adopted by a poor family… certainly he won’t get a leg up in this world, maybe that should be disallowed as well? Or, heaven forbid, an orphan being adopted by a single gay parent? Must be the worst thing you could possibly imagine.

            You can live in an ideal world, or you can live in the real one. You can believe that your religion gives *you* the right to exclude fellow countrymen from enjoying the same rights and benefits you have, or you can be an American and support the Constitution on which our country was founded, and which gives rights all Americans should be afforded. Because that indeed is the reason this country was founded, and the principles on which it was formed.

            Or, if you want a theocracy, try Saudi Arabia. The rest of us are moving on.

          • Gravity

            Your way – children are sacrificed as a standard is not upheld. All the standards that have so far been exterminated have resulted in much higher divorce, single parenthood, etc. God’s Word says Christ will return just before mankind is about to exterminate itself. We are on our way. I remember childhood, it was in a “simpler time” as they say. Children now have to put up with so much crap, it’s unbelievable. If I had to live in one house one week and another for another week (dual home living with dual custody parents) I would have surely lost my mind – or become the simpletons so many are today.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Or, you could read recent sociological research that says children of divorced parents do just as well – on average – as those from dual-parent households, as long as income levels are relatively equal. But surely, a divorced home is far preferable to one that has an abusive parent, right?

            I’m not saying we shouldn’t try to have optimal households as a societal goal, but we should at least have learned that what we once thought was optimal now has a far broader definition while maintaining the same goal – the successful raising of children.

            These times you may wish to relive may have seemed simpler, but it doesn’t mean they were better.

          • Gravity

            Those days were better. Me and my friends weren’t giving boys bj’s at school. It was a huge deal to kiss a boy at 15! When I was very young I lived near my grandparents and visited them often. TV was about honorable things, treating people with respect (well, there were some exceptions). Bullying was there but not nearly as bad as it is now – kids getting kicked, beaten. I agree, if a parent is abusive then a child should be somewhere else, but there is a lot of problems with foster parents who are abusive also.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Yes, in that respect those were simpler, and in a way better, times. But allowing two people of the same gender to marry and start their own family is hardly the worst thing we should be worried about now (and won’t be something to worry about anyway, most likely). How about the unnecessary wars we’re in? How about income inequality? What about domestic abuse, and women earning less than men for equal jobs? What about the loss of our manufacturing economy, which has ravaged cities like Baltimore and Newark? What about ensuring all Americans can exercise their right to vote?

            If there is a god, and his boy is coming back just before end times, there’s plenty more around for him to see we’re f’ing up besides letting two moms get hitched to bring up an adopted child so when one passes away, the other doesn’t have to pay extraordinary taxes on their estate.

          • Gravity

            Check, check, and check…(with the exception of voting – only US citizens as they have a commitment and knowledge to this country, that’s why they are the only ones legally who can vote). We’re in a mess. Christ is going to have a lot on his plate when he returns (he does now – he works behind the scenes now – if he would be in this realm, he’d have to take his place as Lord; just as the President, when he’s in the USA, he lives at the White House – not a house in Virginia somewhere). As for “times gone by” I am glad domestic abuse is now talked about – even just relationships in general are talked more about; sex is no longer a dirty word (God made it – get a clue – it’s not dirty); women are more respected now BUT STILL not respected in what they do best, IMO, care and nurture babies and children and take care of a home. But, I’m worried about “homosexual marriage” because I believe it will extend into other areas too. Masha Gesen (a homosexual activiist) said in an interview: “It’s a no-brainer that (homosexual activists) should have the right to marry, but I also think equally that it’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist. …(F)ighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage when we get there — because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie.

            The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change. And again, I don’t think it should exist. And I don’t like taking part in creating fictions about my life. That’s sort of not what I had in mind when I came out thirty years ago.

            I have three kids who have five parents, more or less, and I don’t see why they shouldn’t have five parents legally… I met my new partner, and she had just had a baby, and that baby’s biological father is my brother, and my daughter’s biological father is a man who lives in Russia, and my adopted son also considers him his father. So the five parents break down into two groups of three… And really, I would like to live in a legal system that is capable of reflecting that reality, and I don’t think that’s compatible with the institution of marriage.”

          • Disqusdmnj

            So we agree on quite a few things, actually, but who cares what one – admittedly nutty – activist says? That’s like basing Christianity on one person’s views, or Hinduism, or atheism, or cancer researchers. There’s a nutjob in every group of people!

            The point is, Jesus apparently made no mention of homosexuality, if the bible said anything about it it was in the OT which isn’t supposed to count anymore (since we work on the weekends and eat pork), and regardless of what the old book says, the US CONSTITUTION says Americans are to be treated equally.

            We’re not talking about polygamy or anything else this activist allegedly said (I see the quote only on religious and right-wing pages, not to say it isn’t accurate), we’re talking about two people who love each other and want to be married, and only if both people have different parts is that legally allowed across the board. So I wouldn’t worry about what else SSM may extend into. But it’ll probably be the law come June, and I’d bet money on it that it will bring the end of days not one minute closer to ever actually happening. ; )

          • Gravity

            Paul does write about homosexuality in his letters to the believers and that is in the New Testament. Jesus didn’t mention it because he was an Israelite (Biblical wording) and hung out with Israelite and they did not have homosexuals. The end of days – I don’t know. I DO KNOW that after all of human history recognizing marriage as one thing, with Christians having a firm belief that that one thing is a foundational/natural institution, it will be a mess in this country if the Court doesn’t give the states the right to decide. I am okay with “civil union” being the law of the land, for all couples, with no mention of marriage on legal documents – as heterosexuals have done a “number” on marriage – Christian and non-Christian alike; but that is where you will find the true heart of the homosexual – if they balk at “civil union” and demand “marriage” – they truly do not respect others and want to force their beliefs onto society.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Oh, Gravity… if you only grasped the irony of your statement. It is YOU who want to force your beliefs onto society, not the gays. Gays are simply asking for their equal rights as AMERICANS, as guaranteed by our Constitution. Denying a group of people a fundamental right is pretty much the definition of forcing a belief onto someone else. No one is making straight people marry someone of the same sex – that is what forcing a belief system WOULD be if the situation was reversed. You want to prohibit someone from marrying the one person they love because you believe it’s against YOUR religion, that’s what your wishes are and you may as well own up to it. But it doesn’t matter that it’s against YOUR religion, just as eating pork is against my neighbor’s religion, but I don’t see him trying to deny me eating bacon. Your life and your marriage will be UNCHANGED if two gay people get married, just as it already has been as SSM has been legalized in the majority of states. Remember that marriage is as much a state concept as it is a religious one, as people can be married by a judge without ever stepping foot inside a temple or church, and receive all the benefits due them as a married couple… the same benefits gays are arguing for, just as blacks and whites who wanted to be married but couldn’t 50 years ago argued for, and won. And your church will NOT be forced by the government into performing a SSM, regardless of what the dimwits with persecution complexes on sites like this say. YOU want everyone to live by your religion and its ancient creeds, but we don’t live in a theocracy under a bible, we live in a democratic republic under our Constitution. And in our form of government, nine judges will determine if a law is Constitutional or not. And whatever the answer is, that is the state of affairs that you will be living under if you want to consider yourself an American.

            Look at it this way… other people eat meat and dairy on the same plate and get tattoos and wear mixed fabrics and work on weekends – all against biblical laws – and I’m sure you’ve dealt with that just fine.

          • Gravity

            As for “intelligent design”, that is the newest thing – with the “God particle” and black energy.

          • Disqusdmnj

            So you know, the Higgs Boson was called the “God-damn” particle, because of how elusive it was to find. It was not alleged to be evidence of a deity’s creation.

            And it is dark energy and dark matter that scientists are working on at the moment, to explain why there is so much energy in the universe, yet so much less matter comparatively as would be expected. But while this hasn’t been 100% proven, it’s not like they’re trying to make laws based on it, as people are with unproven deities and their marriage wishes.

          • LeahMira

            Of course there are! There are “holes” in the theory of gravity, too, but you don’t need to worry about flying off the earth just yet. 🙂

          • OopsICameonGod

            I’ll wait until I actually see a study, that says there is 100% empirical verifiable scientific evidence that a tiny minority are born (IN GOD’S IMAGE). So far no scientist worth his salt has made that claim. Theories? Yes. 100% solid smoking gun scientific proof? Not yet.

            Fixed that for ya!

          • LeahMira

            What scientific evidence would satisfy you?
            Also, do you discriminate against people with birth defects?

          • MC

            I’m sorry that you’ve been living under a bridge all your life and haven’t heard yet that THE LAW discriminates against people with birth defects. Are you going to champion in a law so blind people can drive a car, busses, trains and an airplane? How about people with severe mental retardation, should they drive a car, bus, train and fly a plane? Are you going to pass a law so people with severe mental illnesses like paranoia, schizophrenia and insanity can own guns? Have you taken a class in logic and critical thinking? Reply to me when you have.

          • Jennifer Coutlee

            There is a Facebook page that refutes their so called “scientific” proof, you alude to it here, all their claims are not based on real scientific studies (the definition of that is something that can be tested again and again and reproduce the same result)

          • canidtarega

            MC, YOU ARE RIGHT. HOMOSEXUALITY IS A LIFE STILE , NO ONE IS BORN HOMOSEXUAL. GOD CREATED A MAN AND A WOMAN THAT IS FAMILY. CAN TWO MAN HAVE CHILDREN NO!! CAN TWO WOMEN HAVE CHILDREN NO!! SO GOD IS RIGHT, AND HOMOSEXDUALS GAYS ARE WRONG. MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN THAT IS FAMILY THAT IS ORDER NORMAL.

        • chilegirl

          The US is pretty bad.
          Women’s reproductive rights are up for votes by men…
          They force doctors to lie to women.
          Look at the US before you look anywhere else in the world.

        • rbiermann

          I shared this reply to another post on this topic.
          Here is a different way to look at this. Marriage was not, and never was, a creation of the State, it came from “religion,” and tradition. For centuries, the State was never involved in the marriage process. Go back to the middle ages, and King Henry the VIII. When he wanted to divorce his wife, Anne Boleyn, did he seek a divorce from the “State?” No, he sought it from the church. If he believed that the “state” had the legal power over marriage, he could have done that on his own, as he was the “state.” Even in the early days of this republic, the state did not interfere with marriage. It is only when some states pass laws forbidding inter-racial marriage was the idea of a state issued marriage license even invented, and the purpose of the “license” was (for a fee) to permit an inter-racial marriage. Because of state intervention, we now have a complex legal system regarding marriage, and a forced clientele for lawyers. . In the early 1900’s, a minister was an agent of the church, NOT an agent of the state. If a same sex couple wants to get married, there are plenty of accommodating “churches” and (Elvis impersonators), along with plenty of photographers, catering services, florists, dress/suit makers and anything else you could desire to make it happen. When the Constitution was written, neither the Federal or State governments were in the marriage business. So how can the Constitution create a “right” on an issue that is not even enumerated to the Federal Government? This entire same-sex marriage issue is not about equal rights, it is about diminishing the influence of the church, and tradition.

      • railhead

        “Turning against sin” is works according to the Bible:

        Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

        Turning from sin is never mentioned in the Bible as a means of salvation. Also, the word “repent” does not mean “turn from sin” as many false teachers teach.

        If you have to turn from sin to be saved, then no one is saved. Proverbs 24:9 says the thought of foolishness is sin.

        “There is not a just man upon earth that doeth good and sinneth not.” (Eccl. 7:20)

        “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” (Rom. 3:23)

        “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” (Rom. 3:24)

        Jesus paid it all, and you can’t pay any of it without going to hell for eternity. Turning from sin won’t help you. You need a saviour.

        • Shosh 7154

          1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

          1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

          • railhead

            Continue reading in 1 Corinthians, don’t stop there:
            1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
            1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

            A born again Christian is IN CHRIST, therefore he is no longer identified by those things. Note that in Revelation it tells us ALL LIARS are going to hell (Rev. 21:8). Have you ever lied? (answer: yes) So how come you’re not going to hell? Faith in Christ (if you are truly saved), because Christ paid the penalty for you sin in full., not because you quit lying. If you say you have quit sin, according to the Bible you are not saved:

            1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

            Also, DISCIPLESHIP IS NOT SALVATION. Many people believed on Christ when he was on the earth, but how many disciples did he have?

            Joh 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

            Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

          • Shosh 7154

            Which of these men in this parable taught by Jesus was saved from his sin?

            But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. Which of the two men did the will of his father? They said to him, The first. Jesus said to them, Truthfully I say to you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. (Mat 21:28-31)

            Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And every one who hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

            Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

            and what is the Will of G-d… that we obey His commandments…

          • railhead

            In Matthew 21, again KEEP READING

            Mat 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

            That YE MIGHT BELIEVE HIM. That’s what repentance is all about. The one who does the will of the father is the one WHO BELIEVES HIM. Not the one who says “I did many wonderful WORKS”

            Sometimes I wonder, it’s so obvious but everyone misses it. In Matthew 7, it talks about the will of the father. What is the will of the father? The Bible doesn’t leave you guessing:

            Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

            Faith without works is dead, because it accomplishes nothing. However, according to Romans 4, faith without works still saves:

            Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
            Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
            Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

          • Shosh 7154

            James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

            James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

            James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

          • railhead

            Faith without works is dead, but faith without works is still faith. You’re interpreting this to mean faith without works is not enough to save a person, but that would contradict Romans 4:5:

            Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
            Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

            So, either the Bible contradicts itself, and no one knows what it really means, or your interpretation is wrong. I can understand this, because James 2 is talking about demonstrating your faith to others, and what others are profited by your faith.

            By the way, Jesus commanded us to go into the world and preach the gospel to every creature (Mark 16:15). There’s a work every Christian is supposed to be doing but I don’t see very many people doing it.

          • Shosh 7154

            Faith produced works

          • marsija23

            ShoshPlease see thisabout grace versus works… shall we do, thatwe may work the worksof God?” Jesus answered andsaid to them, “This isthe work of God, that you believein HimwhomHesent.” (Joh6:28-29)

            and

            Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for thisisthe will of Godin ChristJesusforyou. (1Th 5:16-18)

            In the first case, “work” isequated with believing. Itmeansthatthe work we do is to love Christand to keepHis commandments. In the secondcase, the “will of God” is fulfilledin giving thanksfor all things. Thedynamic of saving grace in our lives ismarkedby becoming like God. Godgivesgraciously andfreely. We receive graciously and freely by giving thanksforall things.

            This is from a blog called Glory to God for all Things by Stephen Freeman

          • Shosh 7154

            James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

            James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

            James 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

            James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

            James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

            Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

          • marsija23

            .. orelse I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent…..

            And are you able to elaborate here or elsewhere..repent for what?

          • marsija23

            And your thoughts about grace?

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            The question is, is faith without works enough to save a person. That question is answered in Romans 4:5-6. The answer is YES.

            James 2 is pointing out that faith without works is dead because it is not PROFITING anyone anything if it is not accompanied by works. That’s why James 2:14 says “what doth it profit”. It then talks about a brother or sister being naked or hungry, and you doing nothing about it.

            If this whole passage were talking about faith without works not being enough to save you, not only would that contradict Romans 4, and the scores of other verses in the Bible where Jesus tells people all they have to do is believe, but it also wouldn’t make sense because the passage is addressed to “MY BRETHREN,” and it talks about a brother or sister of a person who sends them away hungry and naked. Our brothers and sisters are born again believers.

            If you think your works are helping Jesus save you, you will end up in hell, period. You are not believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and what HE DID, you are instead trusting in what YOU ARE DOING. And you are calling God a liar, because he said:

            Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
            Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

            What you are saying someone who just believes on Jesus does not have everlasting life, if they don’t have any works. And they MIGHT come into condemnation, depending on their works. So the whole things becomes about works again, and the focus is off of Jesus and his FINISHED WORK and back on us….people love the spotlight don’t they?

          • Gravity

            Putting off the “old man” and putting on the “new man”, fashioned after Jesus Christ. It’s “Christ in you the hope of glory”….SO, it is God’s spirit in us (the holy spirit) that is helping us do God’s will….The law was the schoolmaster until the true master would come and CHANGE our hearts, as a schoolmaster (the law) can do nothing but POINT OUT SIN. It can’t change, like Christ can. BUT it does take a crap load of work (and lost friends, lost jobs, arguments, etc.) and the work never ends. And it’s a heart thing – so that even if the thing we think is sin, really is not, it is still sin (separation from God) because WE DID IT, when we believed it was sin, so it separates us, even if God is okay with it (having a 1/2 a glass of wine, for example).

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            The whole point is, salvation is by faith ALONE. Not of works, lest any
            man should boast. (Eph. 2:8,9) You can walk in the Spirit or walk in
            the flesh.; it’s your choice, and it has nothing to do with whether you
            are saved or not.

            The whole New Testament admonishes us to walk in the Spirit. Why? Because we will some day be rewarded for our works. If we walk in the Spirit, we are doing works and earning rewards (2 Cor. 5, 1 Cor. 3). If we walk in the flesh, we are accomplishing nothing for God and are further subject to chastening (Hebrews 12)

            These are the last days, and there is a great falling away. Not only is the church totally worldly (rock bands in church, immodest dress, watching filth on TV, covetousness, etc.) but it is also filled with unbelievers.

            Anyone who denies that Jesus finished work at Calvary is enough to
            save a person is NOT SAVED. The group Jesus referred to in Matthew
            7:21-23 are those who keep bringing up their MANY WONDERFUL WORKS. That’s all they tell Jesus when he tells them to depart from him. THEY NEVER GOT IT. They never believed him when he said “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” (John 6:47) They don’t believe that now, and they won’t believe it after they die, either.

          • Shosh 7154

            Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

          • Shosh 7154

            James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

            James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

            James 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

            James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

            Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

            Faith without works is dead, but faith without works is still faith. Read ALL of James 2 then ALL of Romans 4. Romans 4:5 says someone who has no works is saved.

            Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
            Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

            You are totally ripping verses out of context in James 2, just like
            everyone else who wants to be saved by works does. I’ve read the book of James several times, it is one of my favorite books of the Bible.

            The thing is, I actually put those verses in context. If James 2 means
            you have to have works to be saved, it is a direct contradiction of
            Romans 4, and all the times in the gospels Jesus said “believe” and you will be saved. And if the Bible has contradictions, might as well
            throw it away.

            Or else, James 2 is talking about how your faith
            is DEMONSTRATED TO OTHERS. What works do you think are going to add to Jesus’ finished work at Calvary?

          • Shosh 7154

            Believing produces action that makes trust visible as Avraham took action to demonstrate his trust in the L-rd which the Bible records as works……when you believe someone, you act differently….Visible faith = works…if you do not believe a chair will hold your weight, you will never take the action of sitting in that chair….never sitting in the chair produces this response from the L-rd: “Depart from Me, I never knew you”….just as a wife would say to a husband who only mouths the words he loves her but never demonstrates his love in works as in James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Works = visible faith proving trust

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            First of all, what works do you think demonstrate someone being saved? Quitting drinking? That’s something they do at AA. Quitting smoking? My agnostic, New Age parents quit smoking for good. These are the most common things people think of as works these days, and they have nothing to do with anything Biblical.

            Here’s one thing the Bible does say indicates faith: confession of the Lord Jesus Christ. (The Bible doesn’t block out letters, by the way.)

            Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

            So either you believe that verse, or you don’t. And this is not out of context as all the verses you showed from James are. The verses in James have nothing to do with salvation; they have to do with how your faith is profiting other people.

            Here’s a work Christians are supposed to be doing, Jesus talked about it all through the gospels, and when I’ve been out knocking doors preaching the gospel, I never run across anyone else doing it, except my partner:

            Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

            The apostles apparently understood this:

            Act 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

            So are all these Christians who go to church on Sunday and never go out and preach the gospel to a single soul even saved? According to you, no, because you say faith has to produce works, and that’s the kind of works the Bible says we should be doing. However, the Bible says anyone who believes is saved:

            Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

            Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

          • Shosh 7154

            I am not your judge. The Word of G-d is your Judge.

          • Shosh 7154

            I have a friend who always ends our conversations with “Love you” But when I was in serious need and backed into a corner with no one to stand with me or offer assistance, she continued to end our conversations with “Love you” without ever once doing anything to help me.

            Faith produces works that will follow us …John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. (of whom it is written: Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.) Faith = believing G-d produces works.

            Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

          • marsija23

            “I have a friend who always ends our conversations with “Love you” But when I was in serious need and backed into a corner with no one to stand with me or offer assistance, she continued to end our conversations with “Love you” without ever once doing anything to help me.”

            I am sorry to hear this. Not everyone is like that! Experiences like these can make one take with a pinch of salt people’s expressions of “love”. But then there is a risk that one veers over into a defense mechanism of never trusting anyone or seeing their good intentions.

            I agree with you, that care needs to be shown through works. And I think that true friends are very rare to come by. And when they do turn up, they are sent by G-d. Please see this in James:

            James 1:16-211599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

            16 [a]Err not my dear brethren.

            17 Every good giving and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the [b]Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither [c]shadow of turning.

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            And yes, we will be REWARDED for our works. Salvation is not a reward, it is a free gift. However, when you do works, you earn rewards.

            Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

            Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
            Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

            Jesus told the Pharisees if they were Abraham’s children they would do the works of Abraham. What were the works of Abraham?

            Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

            Gal_3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

            The whole problem with the Pharisees was not that they weren’t doing any works. On the contrary, they were doing all kinds of works, down to tithing of all their herbs. The problem was they didn’t believe on Jesus. Therefore, they were children of the devil, false teachers, that taught that following the law was a means of salvation.

            Just like Cain, who refused to bring the lamb offering, but instead wanted to bring his own fruit.

            You still haven’t answered what works you think are proof of salvation. The only work that Christians can do that unsaved people can’t is get other people saved. And I see very few people who believe like you do out trying to get people saved. So what works do you think show a person is saved?

            Also why are you blocking out letters in God’s name even though the Bible clearly spells out all of God’s names? Are you actually daring to correct the Bible?

          • Shosh 7154

            Jews separate G-d’s name from common words in an act of worship.

            I know THE LOVE OF MY ETERNITY is my reward HIMSELF. I am impassioned by HIM and where HE goes I go, what I see HIM do, I do. This is the meaning of works after the experience of Jeremiah 31:31 which is described by Yeshua as being born again in verse 33. If after this step is taken and there is no discernible evidence (works) of your relationship as a man who marries a woman and then continues to live as though he were single, there was never a born-again experience. Loving Him is clearly seen in our works.

            Works cannot save anyone because even one sin will keep you out of the Kingdom of G-d forever. So the only road to eternity with G-d is the L-rd HIMSELF whose name in Hebrew is HA DEREKH…. THE WAY…John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
            1Th 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
            1Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

            The
            Bible also describes the Jews for us in the above passages…notice THEY
            PLEASE NOT GOD.

            The Jews also do not believe in the same God as Christians do:

            1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
            1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

            The Jews believe there is a Christ, but think Jesus wasn’t him. Therefore, they are antichrist according to the above.

            The Jews do not believe Moses, either:

            Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

            The Jews claim to believe in the first five books of the Bible, written by Moses, but the Bible clearly states that is a lie. The Bible said had they believed in Moses, they would have believed on Jesus, also. But they don’t believe Moses. Ask any Rabbi if they believe in evolution….they’ll undoubtedly tell you yes, and tell you Genesis is not literal.

            You also realize that the name “Yeshua” is not accurate, then entire New
            Testament was written in Greek, not Hebrew, and “Jesus” is the name
            above every name, not Yeshua, right? The Lord is perfectly able to speak
            Hebrew and preserve it for us, if that’s what he wanted.

            There is only one name given by which we must be saved:

            Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

            The Bible spells out one name for us in the New Testament….every letter…..THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.

          • Shosh 7154

            Yeshua is a Jew. How will you answer to Him about His own family members ?

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            Read the above verses again. They are all written by God, in the Bible. Did you see where the Bible says that the Jews “Please not God”? According to the BIBLE the Jews do not believe Moses, even though they claim to (John 5:46) and do not believe in the father, even though they claim to (1 John 2:23). How much more can the Bible spell it out for us?

            God is not a respecter of persons. If you can read the New Testament and still come away thinking nationality or race means something, I seriously doubt your salvation. The very first thing John the Baptist told people was not to think to themselves about their nationality:

            Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

            The real children of Abraham are those who believe in Jesus:

            Php_3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

            Gal_3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

            Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

            The seed of Abraham is not a race of people; the seed of Abraham is Jesus Christ. And those who believe on him are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise. That’s what the BIBLE says. And by the way, JESUS IS THE WORD (John 1:14).

            You are emulating a group of antichrist unbelievers. Read the Talmud some time, and see what they actually believe. You will be shocked and horrified. The modern Jews (speaking about the religion, not a race) do not believe God at all. Just as the Bible tells us.

          • Shosh 7154

            Please read my response to you. I don’t see evidence that you read it

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            You asked me about “Yeshua” being Jewish. And how I will answer him. I already know what I will say to the LORD JESUS CHRIST when I arrive in heaven. “Thank you for saving me, Lord Jesus”

            I don’t see any evidence that you read any of the verses from the Bible that I posted. The Bible comes right out and tells you:

            1) The physical seed of Abraham means nothing (Matt. 3:9, Gal. 3:16, Gal. 3:29)

            2) The Jews please not God. (1 Thes. 2:15)

            3) The Jews do not believe Moses. (John 5:46)

            4) The Jews do not have the father. (1 John 2:23)

            5) The Jews are antichrist. (1 John 2:22)

            Yet, you are still holding on to what the physical seed of Abraham say and do.

            Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
            Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

            The Bible never says anything about blocking letters out of a name, or not pronouncing part of God’s name. It does say a lot about believing on Jesus. The Jews don’t believe God but are worried about pronouncing his name. They better start worrying about doing what he actually says; namely believing on the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

          • Shosh 7154

            Yeshua is a Jew. How do you feel about that

          • Shosh 7154

            Should not you be rejoicing with Yeshua that His own family members are coming home to HIM in greater numbers than ever before in our day and that the moment is closing in rapidly when every Jew remaining at the return of their Brother and Messiah will be saved alive ?

            Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            I am glad people are getting saved, no matter what race they are. God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34), and I’m not a racist. Jesus’ “family members” are people who believe on him, not people who are descendants of Abraham. I don’t know where to begin with Bible verses that prove this, but all throughout Jesus’ ministry he was telling people NOT to think they had Abraham for their father. The NT has SEVERAL verses that say that believers are the real children of Abraham. The verses I provided before to name a few.
            Here’s a few more: Romans 2:28, Luke 3:8, John 8:39, Philippians 3:3.

            And where did you get the name “Yeshua” from? It is not from the Bible, nor is it from any manuscripts of the Bible. The New Testament reveals the name “Jesus” as the name above every name, and the original New Testament was written in Greek. Hebrew was a dead language up until just recently.

            Stop giving heed to Jewish fables, my friend. (Titus 1:14) No one that calls himself “Rabbi” is of God….because Jesus explicitly said NOT to be called Rabbi (Matt. 23:8). After the diaspora, the Jews were scattered abroad and no one except God knows who is of what tribe because there has been so much mixing among the nations. Why should we be respecters of persons if we’re supposed to be emulating Christ? Every saved person is my brother, and the Lord is our father. Who cares what race they are?

            You never did say what works what prove a person is saved, nor where you got the name “Yeshua” from, nor have you answered why we should emulate traditions of men such as blocking out letters in God’s name or not pronouncing God’s name when the Bible never says to do anything like any of that. Or show me the verses that say we are supposed to do that. Ask yourself where you are getting your beliefs from, the Bible or men.

          • Shosh 7154

            Jesus is a transliteration of Yeshua. Messiah (transliterated from the Hebrew is Mashiach) is a Jew born in Israel 2,000 years ago Who spoke Hebrew and taught from the Torah (the Law) and the Prophets in Hebrew. His family and those living around Him all spoke Hebrew since they are Jews. The entire Word of G-d is Jewish. Yeshua said salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22) since it is written “out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.” Isaiah 2:3 Yeshua’s name is the Word of G-d which He came to fulfill not to abolish or destroy. Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Revelation 19:13 And HE was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and HIS name is called The Word of God.

            All those who bless Israel are blessing themselves and those who strive against Israel will reap according to their desire. Be it unto you according to your desire for Israel is a prayer founded on the promise from G-d established in Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

            In you Israel shall all the families of the earth be blessed…Yeshua is a Jew, then, now and forever He is the King of the Jews. All knowledge of G-d in this earth is from Jews; the words you read today were first given to and through Jews whose language was and is Hebrew forever.

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            Let’s look at the verse you are referring to and compare it to the New Testament verses that explain it for us. Before we go on, please remember that God has magnified his word above all his name (Psalm 138:2). So before we get hung up on what his name is, we better make sure what we believe lines up with his word.

            Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

            Notice the word “THEE”. It is very important to have a King James Bible, because the second person SINGULAR and second person plural are differentiated for us in English. This verse is speaking specifically to Abraham, and is further explained for us in the New Testament (which was not written in Hebrew, by the way):

            Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
            Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
            Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

            Notice in Galatians 3:9 it does NOT say they which are physical descendants of Abraham are blessed with faithful Abraham.

            This is also spelled out for us in the following scripture which I quoted before:

            Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

            Notice here, the SEED is SINGULAR, NOT PLURAL, just as THEE is SINGULAR. This is vitally important, otherwise it would not be specifically pointed out in the Bible. The SEED is CHRIST. And the people that are blessed are those that believe in him. This is spelled out over and over in the New Testament.

            Salvation is of the Jews, because out of Zion our deliverer came, Amen. But, the scripture also says he came unto his own, and his OWN RECEIVED HIM NOT. (John 1:11)

            You are totally rejecting everything the New Testament teaches about this subject. The very first thing John the Baptist straightened out was people thinking they were special because they were physical descendants of Abraham. God is still able to make children of Abraham from stones. The thing that makes you the seed of Abraham is faith in Chrsit.

            Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

            Explain to me which part of the above scriptures you are not understanding. So far:
            1) We see God says he is going to bless THEE singular
            2) The Bible SPECIFICALLY TELLS US that SEED IS SINGULAR FOR THE SAME REASON.
            3)We see the Bible specifically tell us that Abraham’s seed are those who are Christ’s. It also tells us that a real Jew is one who is one inwardly (Romans 2:29) and that we are the circumcision who rejoice in Christ Jesus and have NO CONFIDENCE in the flesh (Phil. 3:3)

            Basically you are rejecting all these scriptures, and choosing instead to believe a bunch of Pharisees. The same ones who killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets (1 Thes. 2:15)

            The name “Yeshua” does not appear in any Bible manuscripts. Tell me where one Bible manuscript mentions the word “Yeshua” Did you know it’s likely that most physical Jews, if they spoke Hebrew, couldn’t even pronounce Yeshua?

            Jdg 12:5 And the Gileadites took the passages of Jordan before the Ephraimites: and it was so, that when those Ephraimites which were escaped said, Let me go over; that the men of Gilead said unto him, Art thou an Ephraimite? If he said, Nay;
            Jdg 12:6 Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand.

            You are on very shaky, and dangerous ground, friend. I can tell you I almost got caught up in this nonsense years ago, but when I got on my knees and said “Yeshua” I knew it wasn’t right. And I also knew that saying in my heart that “Jesus” was anything other than what the Bible says, the name above every name, is blasphemy. God speaks English. If he wanted people to call his son “Yeshua” it would be in a Bible manuscript somewhere. It isn’t. This is a Jewish fable, just like the Bible warns us about. You need to put the focus where it belongs….on HIS WORD….that’s who Jesus is; the word made flesh (John 1:14).

            1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

            Let that verse sink in for a minute, if you are saying something derogatory about the name of Jesus. The Bible specifies this name. The original NT is written in Greek, and the Greek name for Jesus is very close to how we say it English. God COULD have had the NT written in Hebrew. He did not.

          • Shosh 7154

            In reference to your stand against Jews listen to this statement from G-d the King of the Jews Who is Himself a Jew and the first Zionist

            Isaiah 41:11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.

            You who say you are the “new jew”, hear what G-d says:

            Ezekiel 25:7 Behold, therefore I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and will deliver thee for a spoil to the heathen; and I will cut thee off from the people, and I will cause thee to perish out of the countries: I will destroy thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD.

          • marsija23

            this news headline from March 31st “Obama’s Next Move May Be Lifting U.S. Protection of Israel at UN”

            now- “President Barack Obama did not wait for Binyamin Netanyahu to finish building his new government coalition by its deadline … Banking on Netanyahu’s assertion while campaigning for re-election that there would be no Palestinian state during his term in office, Obama is reported exclusively by our sources to have given the hitherto withheld green light to European governments to file a UN Security Council motion proclaiming an independent Palestinian state”

            so it looks like US will force Israel’s hand to create a two state solution? Or for UN to enforce it, now that US will not veto it any more?

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            You hear what God has to say:

            Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
            Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
            Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

            Notice Elias made intercession to God AGAINST ISRAEL (Romans 11:2) So, according to you Elijah should be cursed as well, because he stood against the Jews.

            Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for;
            but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
            Rom
            11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of
            slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not
            hear;) unto this day.
            Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
            Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

            Now I suppose David also should be cursed for cursing Israel, saying “Let their table be made a snare, and a trap,” right?

            The Bible comes right out and says that a Jew is someone who believes in Christ:

            Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

            Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
            Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

            As far as Jesus being the King of the Jews, that is 100% correct. However, have you not read:

            Joh_1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

            Mat_21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

            Do you believe these verses, or not?

          • Shosh 7154

            RAILHEAD: Let’s look at the verse you are referring to and compare it to the New Testament verses that explain it for us. Before we go on, please remember that God has magnified his word above all his name (Psalm 138:2). So
            before we get hung up on what his name is, we better make sure what we believe lines up with his word.

            Response: Psalm 138:2 is one of my favorite verses which I posted to you earlier so yes I know this verse well.

            Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him
            that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

            Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee A GREAT NATION, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: NOTE: a single man cannot be a nation so the nation of Israel is from Avraham. G-d’s promise to Avraham was that one of his sons would become the Saviour of the whole world, the Son of David, the Son of Avraham.

            RAILHEAD: Notice the word “THEE”. It is very important to
            have a King James Bible, because the second person SINGULAR and second person plural are differentiated for us in English. This verse is speaking specifically to Abraham, and is further explained for us in the New Testament (which was not written in Hebrew, by the way):

            Response: The original language of the Jewish talmidim (followers of) Yeshua in Israel 2,000 years ago is Hebrew. His followers were “blue collar” workers, hardly scholars with multiple language skill sets, except for Shaul (Paul) who was classically trained by Gamliel, cohen ha gadol, the high priest during that time.

            Luke 23:38 details the languages spoken by different people groups in Israel: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

            RAILHEAD: Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

            Response: This fact is not the issue. Everyone is equal in the sight of G-d. Notice the statement did not replace the
            Jewish people but states that those who believe in the same G-d are equals.

            RAILHEAD: Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

            Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with
            faithful Abraham.

            Notice in Galatians 3:9 it does NOT say they which are physical descendants of Abraham are blessed with faithful
            Abraham.

            Response: Since Yeshua is a Jew and the Jews are going to be as numerous as the stars (infinite) Genesis 22:17, how will you enjoy the Kingdom of G-d with so many Jews and what will the King of the Jews be to you except a terrible reminder that salvation is of the Jews? (John 4:22)

            RAILHEAD: This is also spelled out for us in the following scripture which I quoted before:

            Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

            Response: The singular is the SON OF G-D Whose name is SON OF AVRAHAM. Avraham is the father of a nation of Jews from Isaac whose son Jacob was renamed by G-d with a word not existing before the night Jacob (Yaacov) struggled with Yeshua and was renamed Prince of G-d (Israel)

            RAILHEAD: Notice here, the SEED is SINGULAR, NOT PLURAL, just as THEE is SINGULAR. This is vitally important, otherwise it would not be specifically pointed out in the Bible. The SEED is CHRIST. And the people that are blessed are those that believe in him. This is spelled out over and over in the New Testament.

            Salvation is of the Jews, because out of Zion our deliverer came, Amen. But, the scripture also says he came unto his own, and his OWN RECEIVED HIM NOT. (John 1:11)

            Response: I am a Jew and I know Yeshua personally face to face and voice to voice, and I am only one of thousands around the world, so that verse is not speaking of all Jews for all time. The prophet Zecharya (Zechariah) spoke of the
            whole house of Israel being saved in one day in verse 12:10 which I will live to see.

            RAILHEAD: You are totally rejecting everything the New Testament teaches about this subject. The very first thing John the Baptist straightened out was people thinking they were special because they were physical descendants of Abraham. God is still able to make children of Abraham from
            stones. The thing that makes you the seed of Abraham is faith in Chrsit.

            Response: No one is claiming anything except that Jews are not replaced by non-Jews in the Kingdom of G-d. Jews
            in the Kingdom of G-d will outnumber the stars Genesis 22:17. It is written: Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

            RAILHEAD: Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

            Explain to me which part of the above scriptures you are not
            understanding. So far:

            We see God says he is going to bless THEE singular

            Response: Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee A GREAT NATION, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: NOTE: a single man cannot be a nation so the nation of Israel is from Avraham, the physical sons of Avraham, the Jews from whom comes the entire Word of G-d and the Son of David Himself.

            RAILHEAD: The Bible SPECIFICALLY TELLS US that SEED IS SINGULAR FOR THE SAME REASON.

            Response: The singular is the SON OF G-D from Avraham Whose name is SON OF AVRAHAM. Avraham is the father of the Jews from Isaac whose son Jacob was renamed by G-d with a word not existing before the night Jacob (Yaacov) struggled with Yeshua and was renamed as Prince of G-d (Israel) and from Yaacov (Israel) comes the Son of David Himself so you can see Avraham’s promise from G-d includes more than just himself.

            RAILHEAD: 3)We see the Bible specifically tell us that Abraham’s seed are those who are Christ’s. It also tells us that a real Jew is one who is one inwardly (Romans 2:29) and that we are the circumcision who rejoice in Christ Jesus and have NO CONFIDENCE in the flesh (Phil. 3:3)

            Response: About Avraham’s seed in Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them (Avraham’s seed the Jews) be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

            RAILHEAD: Basically you are rejecting all these scriptures, and choosing instead to believe a bunch of Pharisees. The same ones who killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets (1 Thes. 2:15)

            Response: Please read Luke 18:32-33 where Yeshua names His executioners.

            RAILHEAD: The name “Yeshua” does not appear in any Bible
            manuscripts.

            Tell me where one Bible manuscript mentions the word
            “Yeshua” Did you know it’s likely that most physical Jews, if they spoke Hebrew, couldn’t even pronounce Yeshua?

            Response: I will show you the exact name Yeshua in Hebrew in the Tanakh (the Law and the Prophets) which Yeshua quoted exclusively, being the Law and the Prophets made flesh:

            Meet Yeshua in His Word:

            19 verses:

            Ezra 2:2, 6, 36,40 3:2,9
            8:33 10:18

            Neh 3:19, 7:7, 7:11, 7:39, 7:43, 8:17, 9:4, 9:5, 12:7, 12:8,
            12:26

            I am a Jew and I have no trouble speaking His name YUD SHIN VAV AYIN = ישוע nor have I ever encountered any Jew who cannot pronounce Yeshua.

            RAILHEAD: Jdg 12:5 And the Gileadites took the passages of Jordan before the Ephraimites: and it was so, that when those Ephraimites which were escaped said, Let me go over; that the men of Gilead said unto him, Art thou an Ephraimite? If he said, Nay;

            Jdg 12:6 Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand.

            You are on very shaky, and dangerous ground, friend. I can
            tell you I almost got caught up in this nonsense years ago, but when I got on my knees and said “Yeshua” I knew it wasn’t right. And I also knew that saying in my heart that “Jesus” was anything other than what the Bible says, the name above every name, is blasphemy. God speaks English. If he
            wanted people to call his son “Yeshua” it would be in a Bible
            manuscript somewhere. It isn’t. This is a Jewish fable, just like the Bible warns us about. You need to put the focus where it belongs….on HIS WORD….that’s who Jesus is; the word made flesh (John 1:14).

            Response: Learn Hebrew my friend because Yeshua ישוע
            means SALVATION…everywhere you see salvation in English look at the Hebrew and you will see Yeshua ..there is change in the spelling as YeshuaH is the noun form and Yeshua is the proper name. Look at this verse in Hebrew:

            Exodus 15:2 The LORD is my strength and song and he is become my salvation (Yeshuah) ישועה: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father’s God, and I will exalt him.

            RAILHEAD: 1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

            Response: I never denied or rejected my L-rd Yeshua in anything I have said here or anywhere else.

            Let that verse sink in for a minute, if you are saying
            something derogatory about the name of Jesus. The Bible specifies this name. The original NT is written in Greek, and the Greek name for Jesus is very close to how we say it English. God COULD have had the NT written in Hebrew. He did not.
            Response: READ THE SIGN OVER HIS HEAD… IT IS WRITTEN IN HEBREW GREEK AND LATIN for the different groups occupying Israel when Jews were in their land. Luke 23:38, John 19:20,

            Yeshua is a Jew, asher haya ve hove ve yavo

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            –>”Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee A GREAT NATION, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: NOTE: a single man cannot be a nation so the nation of Israel is from Avraham. G-d’s promise to Avraham was that one of his sons would become the Saviour of the whole world, the Son of David, the Son of Avraham.”

            RH: THEE is a second person singular word. Thus this verse IS referring specifically to Abraham. He is made a great nation by having children…and yes, eventually one of his descendants is Jesus Christ, the savior of the world. That is detailed for us in Galtians 3:16, which we will get to later.

            –>”The original language of the Jewish talmidim (followers of) Yeshua in Israel 2,000 years ago is Hebrew. His followers were “blue collar” workers, hardly scholars with multiple language skill sets, except for Shaul (Paul) who was classically trained by Gamliel, cohen ha gadol, the high priest during that time.

            Luke 23:38 details the languages spoken by different people groups in Israel: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.”

            RH: Most people in the world speak multiple languages. They do not have to be scholars to do so. I’ve known many Native Americans who fluently speak their native language and English. I’ve known many Hispanics who fluently speak Spanish and English. None of them are scholars, either.

            –>”This fact is not the issue. Everyone is equal in the sight of G-d. Notice the statement did not replace the Jewish people but states that those who believe in the same G-d are equals.”

            RH: Yes, but in other places the scripture specifically says the Jews have been replaced:

            Mat_21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

            Paul specifically tells us that not ALL Jews have been replaced, there is still a believing remnant, as there has always been:

            Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

            –>”Since Yeshua is a Jew and the Jews are going to be as numerous as the stars (infinite) Genesis 22:17, how will you enjoy the Kingdom of G-d with so many Jews and what will the King of the Jews be to you except a terrible reminder that salvation is of the Jews? (John 4:22)

            RH: I don’t care what race or nationality people are. That’s the big difference between you and me. Everyone in heaven is a believer in Jesus Christ, and as such is my brother or sister. I don’t care if they are Black, White, Asian or Hispanic. The King of the Jews, Jesus, is my savior, and is my blessed Redeemer. Before there ever was a race of people, he existed. I’m excited to see him and spend eternity with him.

            –>”I am a Jew and I know Yeshua personally face to face and voice to voice, and I am only one of thousands around the world, so that verse is not speaking of all Jews for all time. The prophet Zecharya (Zechariah) spoke of the whole house of Israel being saved in one day in verse 12:10 which I will live to see.”

            RH: As stated earlier, I really don’t care what race you are if you are truly a believer. I have my doubts about you believing, however, because your emphasis is not on Jesus Christ and salvation, but on works and nationality. Paul was concerned in the same way with believers that were trying to go back to the Old Testament:

            Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
            Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
            Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

            You say you have seen Jesus face to face? Paul said he was the last one to see Jesus face to face.

            1Co_15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

            –>”The singular is the SON OF G-D from Avraham Whose name is SON OF AVRAHAM. Avraham is the father of the Jews from Isaac whose son Jacob was renamed by G-d with a word not existing before the night Jacob (Yaacov) struggled with Yeshua and was renamed as Prince of G-d (Israel) and from Yaacov (Israel) comes the Son of David Himself so you can see Avraham’s promise from G-d includes more than just himself.”

            RH:Yes, the promise does include more than just himself, however that’s the whole point. The promise is unto Christ, and those who believe in him. That’s what those verses I quoted just got through saying. I guess you didnt read them:

            Gal_3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

            Gal_3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

          • Shosh 7154

            I have seen Yeshua face to face. He saved my life.

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            That contradicts the Bible.

          • Shosh 7154

            The whole nation of Israel will be saved in one day..Zecharya 12:10 and I will live to see it. I am a Jew and I know many many many many many Jews today who say Yeshua hu ha mashiach vey adonai ishi

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            So in other words, you don’t believe the verses that all contradict what you believe. All Israel will indeed be saved in the Milennium, as Jesus said:

            Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

            In the regeneration, all Israel shall be saved. However, until that time, God has given them the spirit of slumber (Romans 11:8). They are not going to all receive Jesus before that time, because God gives everyone the choice whether to believe or not. The Bible says that the fullness of the Gentiles has to come in first. (Rom. 11:25) The fullness of the Gentiles will be come in once Jesus returns to establish his kingdom. Before that, however, Jesus predicted that the Jews would one day accept the antichrist:

            Joh_5:43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

            The conclusion of the whole matter: God is not a racist (Acts 10:34), neither should you be. The name “Yeshua” is not found in the Bible or any of the Bible manuscripts. Hebrew was a dead language for almost 1500 years, and that name is a recent invention. His name is Jesus, and if you call that name something other than the name above every name, you are blaspheming Jesus Christ.

            The New Testament very harshly rebukes Judaizers, that is, those who try to place New Testament believers under the Old Testament laws and customs. The Bible calls the New Testament a “better covenant”:

            Heb_8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

            Heb_12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

            If you are saved, instead of getting all worked up about your heritage, which means nothing to me or God, you should be getting worked up about Jesus Christ, and HIS precious blood shed for us, HIS salvation.

          • Shosh 7154

            How many Jews are being turned away from their own Brother and L-rd by your hard words and cold indictments….I too have a warning

            Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

            Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

            Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

            Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

            Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            Yes, and the “branches” being spoken of are not individual people, but nations, groups, etc. And just as the nation of Israel was cast off, not every individual Jew was cast off, because there is always a remnant, and some physical Jews are saved.

            And someone that is saved cannot be lost:

            Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
            Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

            Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

          • Shosh 7154

            the branches are gentiles who come to believe in the Jewish Messiah through the message of the Jewish prophets as it is written ki mitzion tetse torah udvar hashem meyerushalayim …. out of Zion comes the Torah and the Word of G-d is from Jerusalem….if you continue to trample on the original branches, you too will be removed

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            Why are you so stuck on race? Over and over the Bible tells you God is able of the stones to raise up children unto Abraham, and that a Jew is not one who is one outwardly, etc. etc. All verses I quoted before that you continue to reject.

            You ignore all the SCORES of scriptures that tell you that and keep going back to what nationality someone is. I could care less what nationality someone is. If they believe they are saved, if they don’t believe they are condemned.

            Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

            It doesn’t matter what nationality they are. The Pharisees were all Jewish people who, for the most part, went to hell. The Bible says they got to a point where they could not believe any more after rejecting Jesus so many times:

            Joh_12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

            Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

            The Bible is also clear that most of the Jewish people have rejected God in Romans 11. There is only a small remnant.

            If you are one of them, great. Quit glorying in your flesh, and start glorying in Christ.

          • Shosh 7154

            goodbye railhead

          • Shosh 7154

            Luke 18:32-33

          • marsija23

            This is interesting-

            Amos 9:

            “Israel Will Be Restored –

            11 “On that day I will raise up

            The tabernacle[c] of David, which has fallen down,

            And repair its damages;

            I will raise up its ruins,

            And rebuild it as in the days of old;

            12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom,[d]

            And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”

            Says the Lord who does this thing.”

            And the tabernacle of David has an interesting attribute –

            “The tabernacle of David was a unique temple. There was no separation between the people and God. There was no “Holy of Holies.” All experienced God’s presence”- this from Sid Roth

            And interestingly also is this interpretation:

            The tabernacle of David is the Jewish people:

            [literally, ‘dynasty,’ or ‘family’] of David [the Jewish people],

            Sid Roth points out:

            God promised that once this tabernacle (family) of David, or the Jewish people, was restored, it would cause a revival among the Gentiles (Amos 9:12)

            So– if experiencing G-ds presence in the tabernacle ( as in the Holy of Holies…which I have read, did make one shake so much one had to hold on to the altar) of David (Jewish people who are restored) is now

            evident, does it point to revival among the Gentiles?

            and might this be a dynamic you have seen?

            For it would explain a whole lot.

            Note it says: “all the Gentiles who are called by My name”.

          • Shosh 7154

            you are treading on ground that will get you locked out

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            I am already saved, and can never be locked out. I believe the word of God when it says:

            Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

          • Shosh 7154

            Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

          • http://biblicalsalvation.info/ railhead

            “You” in the King James Bible is always plural. This verse has nothing to do with salvation, otherwise it would contradict the hundreds of verses which say it is everlasting life, such as:

            Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

            Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
            Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

            Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

            However, churches that do not continue in his goodness are in danger of being cut off, as God also speaks about removing candlesticks from certain churches in Revelation.

          • marsija23

            I have read your posts. First off..please don’t think I am contesting you. I am not. I am just adding some additional perspectives and questions. 😉

            If we understand “works” as being “fruit bearing” meaning these are the evidence of the holy spirit in us, but not being necessary for salvation – For Sins are taken care of.Jesus did that on the cross..and if we believe in Jesus then we are saved by grace through faith in HIM – and this makes sense

            : Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

            Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

            Then what are works for?

            Possibly they relate to rewards? And rewards can be given on earth or we can otherwise get them in heaven do you not think?

            ..so again about the works..this from Mary of Agreda. The Mystical City of God:

            “the Most High finds incomparably more delight than all these in the souls, which He has chosen for his blessings; and in proportion as they dispose themselves and advance in virtue, the Lord also multiplies his favors and benefits. If the mortals, that attain to the light of faith, would enter into this truth, they would, merely on account of this complacence of the Almighty in their good deeds, not only preserve themselves from sin, but they would zealously engage in great works until death and eagerly show their loving servitude to Him, who is so liberal in rewarding, and so generous in his favors.

            So works are for bringing the Kingdom of Heaven on earth? To advance that, they are not for ourselves. And good works produce in the people who do them extra grace, extra favour and a wish to d more, earnestly and zealously? One does not do them to be rewarded obviously.

            I think when we get to heaven we will be confronted with the time we wasted..the works we did not do – the missed opportunities- and think of the thief on the cross..what works did he do that got him into heaven..none..but will he receive the same reward as those who died for their testimony?–like the four little children in Iraq who died for their testimony, and so got their heads cut off, for refusing to convert to Islam.

            “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone ACCORDING TO HIS WORK.” (Revelation 22:12)

        • MC

          I already have a savior, his name is Jesus Christ.

      • Danielmormon

        Good doctrine!

      • roald

        Compare and contrast your response with that of LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead above and see how a real Christian responds. Recognize the beam in your eye and vow to be better.

        • MC

          I judge with righteous judgement.

          • roald

            Wow. I have been waiting to use this…Who made you god?

            What are your thoughts on the other 612 commandments in the old testament? Even if you remind me that Jesus said, in effect, don’t sweat them, in one of the rare instances of someone remembering what they heard him say or someone else heard him say, he felt the same way about most divorces. Can you point me to any comments you have made that people should not condone re-marriage after divorce?

          • MC

            Only God is God, so your question is illogical. We are commanded to judge ALL things.
            Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” (‭John‬ ‭7‬:‭24‬ NASB)
            But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. (‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2‬:‭15‬ NASB)

            Divorce and remarriage is to be taken on a case by case basis. Only biblical divorce is permitted, as is remarriage. Remarriage after a death of a spouse is also permitted.

          • roald

            Answer my questions.

            Point me to comments you made concerning “being part of” a marriage after an unsanctioned divorce.

            What about the other 612 commandments from the old testament?

            Who gets to decide if your judgement is righteous. Jesus said to love and to treat others as you want to be treated. All I see is hate.

            In any case, we do not live in a theocracy.

          • MC

            Show me a verifiable, “unsactioned divorce” as I’m not in the marriage business and you are and know everyone who is?

            What commandments are you talking about? Are you screwing up the differences between the temporary ceremonial law, the temporary judicial law, and God’s unchanging Moral Law like the majority of atheists do?

            God gets to decide if my judgments are righteous according to his Word. And yes, treating others well does not mean I have to support their sin, Jesus didn’t.

            Yes, did you just learn in your high school that we don’t live in a theocracy? But that irrelevant.

          • roald

            Per Jesus, a divorce is unsanctioned for any reason other than sexual immorality. “I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” So, as an example, McCain’s two divorces and the divorce of Randy and Paula White of Without Walls International in Tampa, Fla were not sanctioned by Jesus.

            There are 613 commandments in the old testament, you know, the one Jesus followed. http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm How many have you broken this weak?

            Remove the beam from your eye or are you too proud.

            Why is that we do not live in a theocracy irrelevant? Religious law cannot be US law.

            Do you have enough information to answer my questions or will you try to misdirect again?

          • MC

            And again, what’s your point on biblical marriage and divorce? Was McCain and his ex wives Christians? Were their divorce biblical? Are you implying these people are perfect? I don’t care about Rany and Paula White and their heretical teachings, they will answer to God.
            Again, are you confusing the ceremonial law that was temporary and for the ancient Israelites not Gentiles, the judicial law, and God’s Moral law? You have again ran from that question. I await your response.

          • roald

            I will spell it out for you. You are relying on biblical definitions of sin to condemn homosexuality. Jesus had little to say on the subject and more to say on divorce. He condemned divorce except in the case of the wife’s sexual immorality. If you believe you need to follow Jesus’ teachings on homosexuality, you must also follow his teachings on divorce. Please point me to where you condemned McCain or White for their divorces. Jesus would not have condoned them.

            Let me remind you what you wrote earlier…
            “Divorce and remarriage is to be taken on a case by case basis. Only biblical divorce is permitted, as is remarriage.”

            If you don’t care about the White’s why do you care about a gay person whose name you haven’t even heard?

            Adding a question mark to the end of a sentence does not make it a question. If you use the old testament to condemn homosexuality, you must condone all judicial and moral laws of the 613. If you say that Jesus said we can ignore the old testament (and he also said that we must obey it), then you cannot use any of the old testament laws on homosexuality. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite and you know what Jesus thought of them.

            Will you now answer my question or will you continue to dance around?

          • MC

            Jesus had a lot to say about homosexual acts, starting in Leveticus, he also said marriage is between a man and and a woman in Genesis. Jesus spoke against homosexual acts from the OT to the NT. Why would I have to condemn McCain or White on their divorces, I unlike you don’t know if their divorces were biblically sanctioned or not. You’re the one who thinks he’s clairvoyant not me. And divorce has nothing to to do with the abomination of homosexual acts. There is no, “biblically sanctioned” homosexual acts or gay marriage. Your argument failed before you brought it up. There is no argument of, “Well, if you condemn people who practice homosexual acts then you must condemn people who get a divorce”. No one is jumping up and down in happiness when a person gets divorced, biblically sanctioned or not, divorce is hard and sad. No one is forced to bake cakes for divorce ceremonies, no one is being forced to print T-shirts for divorce pride parades. Your argument failed.

            Now, for the third time, and this is an old argument by the way that only ignorant village atheists such as yourself foolishly try to use in an argument. But it’s fun watching your obtuseness.
            Are you confusing the TEMPORARY ceremonial law that was ONLY for the ancient Israelites and NOT for Gentiles (like eating certain foods that Jesus declared clean anyway), the judicial law that we don’t follow anymore because America has its own judicial laws, or are you talking about God’s UNCHANGING Moral Law, which homosexual acts would fall under??? Put on your thinking cap, I await your response.

          • roald

            I notice that you refuse to answer my questions. I find that to be a signal that you cannot.

            Jesus did not write the old testament and it does not refer to any of its commandments, such as kashrut and shatnez are temporary ceremonial law. If you claim Jesus defined which commandments are not-applicable
            and which ones are, please point me to the link. I await your refusal to answer my questions.

            Divorce and re-marriage is an abhorrent act according to Jesus, yet people do not even question whether a second marriage is Jesus-sanctioned. Why not?

            A question mark at the end of a statement is not a question. A question mark at the end of a question, is. Perhaps you could rephrase, “Again, are you confusing the ceremonial law that was temporary and for
            the ancient Israelites not Gentiles, the judicial law, and God’s Moral
            law”

          • MC

            I answered your question, how many time do you want me to answer it? You’re mixing up the temporary ceremonial law, like what foods to eat, which Jesus declared ALL foods clean, not mixing fabrics, hair cuts, etc. which was ONLY for the ancient Israelites and NOT for the Gentiles. How many times do I have to write the same thing over and over? You clearly have a comprehension problem. ONLY FOR THE ACIENT ISRAELITES AND NOT FOR THE GENTILES!!!!!!!!!!!!
            ONLY FOR THE ACIENT ISRAELITES AND NOT FOR THE GENTILES!!!!!!!!!!!!
            ONLY FOR THE ACIENT ISRAELITES AND NOT FOR THE GENTILES!!!!!!!!!!!!
            ONLY FOR THE ACIENT ISRAELITES AND NOT FOR THE GENTILES!!!!!!!!!!!!
            ONLY FOR THE ACIENT ISRAELITES AND NOT FOR THE GENTILES!!!!!!!!!!!!
            You think you can finally wrap your obtuse brain around something so simple?Jesus spoke against homosexual acts in Leviticus. Jesus said a marriage is between a man and a woman in Genesis and then reiterated it again in the NT. Jesus spoke through ALL of the OT! Who do you think gave Moses the Ten Commandments? Yup, Jesus. And how do you know people aren’t asking if a second marriage is biblically sanctioned or not? Are you now claiming you’re omniscient? And still it has NOTHING to do with the abomination of homosexual acts. Your arguments still fail.
            Why don’t you learn what the differences are between the ceremonial law, the judicial law and God’s unchanging Moral Law since you want to use them as an argument but are failing horribly at it because you have no idea what they are in the first place. Seriously, learn what they are so you won’t continue to embarrass yourself, hopefully. And get help for your comprehension problem!

          • roald

            It looks like you are starting to lose your cool.

            Jesus did not write Leviticus; it existed for tens of centuries before his birth . Jesus did not write the NT; it was written by many men, some decades after Christ’s death.

            I asked for, and you ignored, the list that splits the commandments into the set of ceremonial and moral. If there is no list, a pointer to the guidance is OK. Without that, all I have is your definition, which I refuse to accept for obvious reasons.

            McCain left his first wife for a younger woman. His previous wife did not commit adultery. She was busy recovering from a serious auto accident that left her legs and pelvis shattered.
            http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/carol.asp

            Newt Gingrich left two wives. Infidelity was not cited as a reason for either.

            I refuse to believe that you think all Christian divorces are based on the wife’s infidelity. Since Jesus spoke more on divorce than homosexuality and considered re-marriage for non-sanctioned divorces adultery, which is clearly a moral issue. I will ask again for a pointer to all of the comments you have made condemning those types of divorces and defending the bakers who don’t want to bake cakes for those second and third marriages. Oh. Wait, You can’t defend those bakers because they don’t care about adultery as long as it is between straights.

            Next up is observing the Sabbath and your outrage at the Christians who do not observe it properly.

          • MC

            No, not at all. I deal with ignorant village atheists like you all the time. I’m cool as a cucumber.
            Again, Jesus IS God, he has always existed, he was not created. Jesus spoke creation in to existence.

            In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. (‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭1-3‬ NASB)

            Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. (‭John‬ ‭17‬:‭5‬ NASB)

            I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father.” (‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭28‬ NASB)

            God said to Moses, ” I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.'” (‭Exodus‬ ‭3‬:‭14‬ NASB)

            Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” (‭John‬ ‭8‬:‭58‬ NASB)

            He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. (‭Colossians‬ ‭1‬:‭17‬ NASB)

            So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” (‭John‬ ‭20‬:‭21‬ NASB)

            But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, (‭Galatians‬ ‭4‬:‭4‬ NASB)

            The Scriptures were written by men under the inspiration of God. Jesus spoke against homosexual acts as an abomination in Leveiticus through the NT. Jesus said marriage was between a man and a woman and reiterated himself in the NT.

            I told you to learn the differences between the ceremonial law, the judicial law, and God’s unchanging Moral Law. Sorry, I’m not going to do your homework for you, you’re an atheist so I already know you’re intellectually lazy but I’m not going to let you off the hook, the only way to really learn a subject is to do your own research. I did mine now you do yours.

            Who said all Christian divorces has to do with the wife cheating? I never said that. Men cheat too. Also, all your obsession with McCain and whomever, I don’t care, I don’t care about McCain, or anyone else, their divorce is between them and God, they will have to answer to God, not man. And again, this has nothing to do with the abomination of homosexual acts. People aren’t having pro divorce pride parties and forcing Christians to participate in. Where are Christian bakers being forced to participate in adultery? I would hope a Christian baker would refuse to make a cake celebrating adultery.

          • roald

            You have calmed down, but you are a bit frazzled, given your response.

            I see that no such list exists and you are doing a typical dodge.

            The way the law is written is that a man can divorce a a woman because of infidelity. There is provision for a woman divorcing. probably something to do with women as property.

            Why then don’t you believe gays will have to answer to god rather than to you? Parties and etc. do not exist because there is no stigma associated with divorce. Since Jesus proclaimed that most re-marriages after a divorce are adultery, why are service providers not outraged that they have to support that moral sin by providing cakes, flowers, photographs, etc.

            I do note that you continue to refuse to show your outrage at adultery, which is a choice, and not with sexual orientation, which is not. If you choose to respond, please include when you chose to be straight.

          • MC

            Um no, I’m not frazzled. Sorry to burst your bubble. And yes, there’s tons of info about the differences between the ceremonial law, the judicial law, and God’s unchanging Moral law. Tons. There’s only two reasons to NOT finding it, you’re either lying or don’t know how to do a simple google search. I can’t help you with either. I mean, this is Christisnity 101 stuff. Now, if gays like you want to choose to be gay then that’s between you and God, but when you want to change the definition of marriage and force religious people support what consider an abomination then we are forced to be involved. Always remember, it was YOU that involved us NOT the other way around. You only have yourselves to blame. As for the “outrage” of adultery, read above. If you can’t figure it out then you’re not smart enough nor ever will be.

          • roald

            Nope, you are frazzled and acting defensively.

            As expected, you also make assumptions for which you have no proof.

            I hope some day you are able to pull that beam from your eye.

          • MC

            Lol! Nice try with your typical projection village atheist. Sorry you lost the argument and are all mad now but you never had one to begin with. You can’t debate if you have no idea of the subject at hand, you only made a fool of yourself going in circles like a dog chasing his tail. When you have thirty four years of a subject behind you then maybe you’ll be ready. Until then, don’t get into any debates with people like me who know the subject inside and out. I hope one day you’ll be able to walk away from the sin of homosexuality.

          • roald

            Yep. Rattled and defensive.

            No answer, so you turn to personal attacks.

            I do agree that I should not get into debates with people like you. They turn out to be a waste of my time.

          • MC

            I gave you all the answers, don’t blame me if they went over your head. You failed, but it’s not my fault, it’s yours. You just have no idea of the subject at all. Do you think you’re the first village atheist to use the failed, “Are you following all the laws” argument? It’s an argument used by ignorant atheists such as yourself who have zero knowledge of the cerimonial law, the judicial law, and God’s unchanging Moral Law. No knowledge of who it was for and why. And this is all 101 stuff. If ignorant village atheists such as yourself insist on debating Scripture then you better have a firm grasp of hermeneutics and exegesis, not the drivel you learned to regurgitate from atheist websites. Instead of being all mad, go and learn the subject.

          • roald

            Let me know when you feel like providing some real information instead of hiding behind personal attacks.

          • MC

            Let me know when you stop projecting your shortcomings onto others and actually have an argument. I’ll be here.

      • chilegirl

        Ummmm, there’s no proof of this jesus fellow. The Romans kept good records and there’s no jesus mentioned until around 100 years after his “death.”
        You are known by your actions and your words.

        • Gravity

          He’s mentioned by Josephus. How many Roman documents were destroyed to hide what Christ had done? How many were burned at the burning of the Library at Alexandra?

      • jklds

        One must remember that Christianity is NOT and never will be the only “faith” in this world. Just because you believe 1 way doesn’t make it valid for others who believe otherwise. Nor do you EVER have the right to force your beliefs on others either.

        • MC

          Irrelevant.

          • jklds

            Actually, quite relevant.
            To force your beliefs on others makes you no better than those you preach against. And against the law in the first place.

            The law is the US Constitution, not ever a book of theology. An under the US Constitution, there is no 1 religion in this country. ALL are equal, none above the other.

          • MC

            Irrelevant. Show me verifiable evidence that we live in a theocracy?

          • MC

            Irrelevant. Show me verifiable evidence that we live in a theocracy?

          • jklds

            We thankfully do not live in a theocratic country, much to you and your kind’s chagrin. As I said, you do not EVER have the right, under the US Constitution, to force your religious POV on others. The law is according to the US Constitution, not a book of theology, the way you and others would have it. Thankfully, that will NEVER be. Christianity is not the only faith in this country and it never will be the only one. ALL are equal and NONE have the right to be forced on others.

          • MC

            That’s right, we do NOT live in a theocracy so NO ONE is forcing any religious beliefs on others. And yet again you’re wrong, I, and my Christian friends, do NOT want to live in a theocracy, if you think we want or trust the government to teach the true Gospel of Christ than you ARE more obtuse and ignorant than I originally thought of you. All your arguments have failed. You may go now.

          • MC

            That’s right, we do NOT live in a theocracy so NO ONE is forcing any religious beliefs on others. And yet again you’re wrong, I, and my Christian friends, do NOT want to live in a theocracy, if you think we want or trust the government to teach the true Gospel of Christ than you ARE more obtuse and ignorant than I originally thought of you. I also noticed your bigoted quip of, “You and your kind”. Showing your true colors I see. All your arguments have failed. You may go now. 

          • jklds

            Unfortunately you are in the minority. Too many of your ‘christian’ brethren are hell bent on turning this country into a theocracy, in direct violation of the Constitution. They demand that creationism be taught in public schools to the exclusion of proven science. They demand that religion itself be taught – inserting religious figures into history texts. They demand that religious POVs override existing laws and try to force their religious POVs on other people and faiths, in violation of the Constitution.

            Thankfully, this is NOT and never will be a theocracy, much to your chagrin.

          • MC

            Do you have a comprehension problem? I gave you permission to leave after I refuted all your arguments. Repeating your same failed illogical arguments doesn’t make them magically logical or correct, because it’s a failure. Maybe, just maybe you can talk to me again when you have passed logic and critical thinking classes. Other than that you are irrelevant and useless.

          • jklds

            oh, I have no comprehension problems at all, particularly where Constitutional Law comes into play.

            I also understand the doctrine of separation of church and state, very well indeed. I also understand the 14th Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause, as well as the No Religious Test Clause of the Constitutions. Article VI, paragraph 3. I also know that, while you most definitely have the right to worship as you wish, just as I do, neither of us have the right to force our religious POVs on other people. In addition, there is no established religion in this country, and as I said, ALL religions are equal and NONE are above the other (much to the chagrin of those like you). The fact that some idiots think that they have the right to force religion or religious povs in a secular government and its rightful laws is what gives a religion its bastardized reputation.

            Christianity may be the religion that is practiced by the majority of people in this country, BUT it is by NO means the only religion nor the only valid religion.

            The arrogance you display is what gives the rest of us Christians a bad name.

          • MC

            I have already excused you. And you’re no Christian so stop lying. You couldn’t exegete Scripture out of a wet paper bag. Now, go back to your love for the secular government and your horribly embarrassing failed arguments. Go worship at the alter of your father the devil, you know, the one you think is also a valid religion. Now again, you have my permission to leave. If you need the last word, and it looks like your weak minded and useless enough to need it so desperately, go for it.

          • jklds

            Ah….your own ignorance and arrogance betrays your own hypocrisy.
            ps…born/bred Presbyterian USA here 🙂

            Your kind gives real Christians a bad name. No wonder bullies like you can’t handle being told NO.

      • canidtarega

        DEAR, MC, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY AND ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. ONLY THE WISE WILL UNDERSTAND.

        • MC

          Thank you. 🙂

    • Christopher Balous

      Kansas_Guy_79.

      As a Christian, I love you and your friend.

      If you was hungry…I would feed you.
      If you needed a place to stay for the night… my home is open.
      If your car broke down on the side of the road…I’d stop to fix it.
      If you were sick…I’d help take you to the hospital.

      Point is…. As a Christian , we don’t “hate” you, for you are our brothers in humanity. But your actions & lifestyle is what we can not condone.
      God created a man to be with a woman , not another man. It is HIS law of creation that the “whole” world was created by. You may not want to believe this & try to close your mind & act as it is not true. But no matter what you may believe, Jesus is Lord and what He created & set into existence can not be changed.
      I pray that you will ask the Only True God-Jesus the truth & that both of you give your life to Jesus who dearly loves you , but HE hates the sin that your doing. (HE hates all of our sins) May God show you HIS truth. Love you.

      • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

        Amen !

        • Guest

          Perfectly said Christopher.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            What he said is good ! I agree.

      • Dream Theater Moment of Reason

        I like what you had to say. We are not judge’s we are everyday people walking in the light of Christ. If we can’t show that to our neighbors, we are lukewarm Christians, and Jesus says he will spew us out of his mouth. So as a Christian we can point the way to Christ in his love, and be kind at the same time.

        • Christopher Balous

          Amen!

    • Shosh 7154

      NO ONE here is judging you. We are NOT your judge. The Word of God is your Judge. It is only before HIM that you will stand. Be careful to read His statements before you determine your actions.

      Leviticus 18:22 You shalt not lie with a man, as with a woman: it is abomination.

      Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with a man, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination…

      Rom 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error

      • roald

        Please continue quoting Leviticus and prepare yourself for stoning for you have almost certainly violated several of the 613 commandments.

        What happened to removing the beam from your own eye first.

        • Matt Fetterley

          roald, I admire your determination, but you’re only making these bigoted POS’s believe their hatred is justified… They do appear REALLY desperate, that means we’re winning.

          • roald

            I see your point. On the other hand, not to challenge will make them bolder. Plus, I am starting to see an engagement pattern emerge that I find interesting

    • Dream Theater Moment of Reason

      First, a Christian such as myself loves people including you. My question for you is this. Would you consider yourself as a person who made a choice, or was it more genetic? Also, you don’t mention any spirituality. Are people hostile toward you that are said, Christians, or any other group? I ask just to understand and I’m glad you posted. May Christ be a part of your life and at leas t me, and I see others that don’t wish you any harm or anger and neither do I. Put please recognize that when following the message of the Bible, specifically Jesus Christ he is about love, and about saving the world from sin. But if you are a believer in God, that is between him and you. We have a responsibility to love as Christ loves us.

    • Gehennah

      I hope that one day the entire nation will look back at these times and see the wrong the anti-lgbt groups are doing.

      • Matt Fetterley

        Same was said about allowing blacks to vote… Your kind will die off and the rest of civilization will be allowed to progress again.

        • Gehennah

          I do apologize if my stance wasn’t clear, but I am very much pro lgbt rights and pro gay marriage.

          To clarify, as far as looking back, it is in the future I want the nation to look back at those who oppose equal rights and see the harm they caused just like we do today with those who opposed allowing black people to vote.

          Sorry again if my original stance wasn’t clear.

      • canidtarega

        ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

        • Gehennah

          An all powerful deity dying is a nonsensical term, especially since there was no actual sacrifice since an infinite being can’t sacrifice anything due to the nature of infinity.

    • Celephais

      It is not your relationship with us you need to worry about, Kansas Guy. As a formerly gay man myself, I learned that we can’t get our masculinity by sexualizing it in other men. Somewhere in your past, you were not affirmed as a man and you’re looking for that affirmation in a place it is not to be found. If your earthly father did not or cannot bestow it in you, ask your heavenly Father; He will lead you on that great adventure.

    • canidtarega

      IF YOU ARE A HOMOSEXUAL TEACHER POOR CHILDREN. IN JUNIPERO SERRA SCHOOL A LITTLE BOY GOT RAPED SODOMIZED BY HOMOSEXUAL TEACHER, THE LITTLE 8 YEAR OLD BOY WAS NEAR DEATH, MOST DIE IN HORROR OF RAPE IN THE HANDS OF HOMOSEXUALS . THE SAME WAS HAPPENING IN SODOM AND GOMORRAH, GOD HEAR THE CRY OF THOSE POOR INNOCENT CHILDREN, AND GOD BURNED ALL OF THOSE HOMOSEXUALS OF EVIL THEY WANTED TO RAPE LOTE ALSO, AND THE TWO MAN OF GOD WHICH GOD SEND TO HELP LOT; FROM THE HOMOSEXUALS, AND SAVE ONLY LOTE. HOMOSEXUALITY IS ABOMINATION TO GOD, HE CREATED ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, THAT IS FAMILY THAT IS NORMAL, THAT IS ORDER. WITHOUT A MAN AND A WOMAN NO HUMANS!! SO GOD IS RIGHT!! AND YOU THE HOMOSEXUAS ARE WRONG!!!! HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A RACE SO IS NOT RACISM TO SPEAK AGAINST THIS HORRIFIC LIFESTYLE OF SIN. YOU WANT TO FORCE THIS SIN TO US, THE PEOPLE OF GOD AND JESUS, WE WILL NOT ACCEPTED, AND WE WILL GO TO COURT FOR OUR RIGHTS OF FREE SPEECH, AND RELIGION FREEDOM AND RESPECT FOR OUR BELIEVE. HATE AGAINST A LIFESTYLE OF SIN IS NOT RACISM NOT HATE. SO STOP ACCUSING US THE CHRISTIANS OF HATE, BECAUSE , YOU ARE THE HATEFUL ONES AGAINST US, AND WANT TO FORCE US, WE WILL NOT LET YOU, WE WILL UNITE, WE ARE MILLIONS AND YOU ARE FEW. GOD BLESS YOU. FINALLY WE WILL STAND FOR OUR GOD AND HIS WORD THE BIBLE BECAUSE HE IS RIGHT.

    • Shosh 7154

      and you commit an abomination doing unseemly things with your bodies one with another which violates the natural law and HIS law.

      • marsija23

        I have a friend who is gay. Awfully difficult to know how to talk to her about it. When we were younger I could and she could more easily broach the topic..id say ..”.am really worried for you ..that you will go to hell” ..now though she seems more certain, more set in her way regarding that lifestyle and I know that anything I might say to even touch upon the subject will be received with tremendous shock/hurt. She knows however how I stand. Years back they came to stay in my home where I had two young children then. I wanted to indicate..please don’t …not in my home ..where I endeavoured to make sure nothing unholy entered, so I måde sure they stayed in a room where there were 2 single beds wide apart. Each morning I pulled the beds apart again _ this was my unspoken but unmistakable continuous statement to them. Nothing was said. Furthermore I did not want my children accidentally seeing anything. I thought surely they can understand and respect that? I’m sure my friend was sensitive to it, however her partner I knew was more controlling. I’ve never invited them both together since.

  • Bolvon72

    Just when I think I could not read anything as crazy as this article, I read the comments. Hilarious. (I know, I know, I wont be laughing when I stand before god… actually big guy, beard, white dress, I think he’s ready for his gay marriage.)

    • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

      And you will always remember every hateful word you ever spoke against God !

      • Bolvon72

        I don’t know, there has been a lot, I couldn’t possibly remember them all. And I normally direct statements towards folks like you, after all, I don’t say many hateful things about pink unicorns either.

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          God will remind you. His memory is better than ours .

          • ReadLearnThink

            Good luck with that, LadyFBird. Just remember, the truth will set you free, and eating of the tree of knowledge is really not such a bad thing. You should probably find out where your Bible came from, who wrote it, and how it was put together, and which MEN (some of whom were murderers — one murdered their own son and wife by boiling her in a pot — and that was AFTER the council where he helped decide which manuscripts (out of thousands) should be put in a “Bible” or that there should even BE a “Bible.” So yeah. Read. Learn. Think. before basing your whole life and beliefs around a book that did NOT fall from the sky, and is FAR from being God’s word.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Islam will be the final and last ((((((False))))) Religion before Christ Return to set up His Kingdom. Christ will put an end to all False religion including Islam .
            I am protected with the Blood of Christ !! My God is not aLLAH . aLLAH is not the God of Creation.
            It was not a good thing to eat of that fruit as you say . That fruit brought mankind into sin that we alone can not get out of. God gave us a way out. (((((Christ))))) is the way out. It is the shedding of His Blood that sets us Free.

          • Kamron Mason

            Actually, LadyFreeBird, Allah and your God are the exact same deity. The primary difference between the two religions is who was God.s/Allah’s messenger(s)/prophet(s).

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            I do not believe you . aLLAH is not the same. You have been deceived . You have chosen to believe the lie .

            <

          • Kamron Mason

            Do you prectice being an ostrich often?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            You are so so so* kind* with an *un* in it !!!!!!!!!!!

          • Kamron Mason

            When someone basically puts their fingers in their ears and says “nuh-uh, not true” without verifying the validity of what was said, why should that person expect anything more,?
            Act like a child be treated like a child.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            You are disrespectful to Some I have seen how you are replying .

          • Kamron Mason

            If by disrespectful you mean not accepting the lies and falsehoods others are trying to pass of as facts, then I guess I am guilty.
            The reality is that the closest I came to being disrepsectful is when I accused you of mimicing (metaphorically) an ostrich.
            Ignorance in of itself is excusable, willful ignorance is shameful.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            P.S. Read the Bible of the Christians . And the Book of Islam you will see they are not the same God .

          • Kamron Mason

            Well if we are going to totally disregard facts and instead use extremely faulty logic …
            Read the Old Testament of the Christians and the New Testament of the Christians you will clearly see they are not the same God.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            You need help !!! And only God Can help you ! If it is the Will of God to deliver you and to save you through Salvation , May God’s Will be done for you as His Will is done in Heaven.
            May God’s Holy Spirit Open your eyes,ears,understanding and your Heart To the truth of God . In Jesus Name .
            Also Jesus of the Christians is not the same jesus of Islam .
            I have added you to my list of people to Pray for . And I will stand in the Gap for your soul . Other than that I will No longer respond to you . I will keep you in my Prayers and stay in the Gap for you . <

          • Kamron Mason

            Actually LadyFreeBird , I am just fine exactly the way I am.
            Ah yes, claim someone is in need of saving, offer prays for them, then run and hide. Much better than accepting facts that go against the falsehoods you were lead to believe all your life.
            It is you that has closed eyes, not I. It is you for whom prayers should be offered.
            A few more facts for you to pray away.
            The Qur’an mentions
            Moses 136 times
            Abraham 69 times
            Lot 27 times
            Joseph 27 times
            Adam 25 times
            Mohammed … only 5 times
            Take your own advice and read the Qur’an, for clearly you have not, before making statements about what and what it doesn’t contain.

          • Richard

            No they aren’t. Why is it non believers make so many errors? Study would help clear those mistakes up for you.

          • Kamron Mason

            You would be wrong Richard. Yaweh (Judaism), God (Christianity), Allah(Islam) are one in the same. There is a reason these three religions are referred to collectively as the Abrahamic religions.
            Or are you going to tell me that the Arbraham of the Koran, the Abraham of the OT, and the Abraham of the Torah are three different Abraham’s or that they are the same Abraham who worshipped three different dieties?

          • Jim Bart

            Right from the very beginning, Islam deny’s Christ died on the Cross. FAIL. No reason to go any further.

            Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 10:32-33

          • Kamron Mason

            I made no claim with regards to Islam it’s view on Jesus. In fact I said it was their views on figures such as Jesus, Mohammad etc is the defining differnce in the religions.

          • Jim Bart

            As a matter of fact, the quran admits without a doubt the allah the muslims follow is satan and not the God of the bible..

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFn042VA-VA

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          You think you are so funny . Laugh now . For the day will come you will no longer laugh !

        • Jim Bart

          So you admit you are a hateful hypocrite. Paul use to persecute Christians too, so there is hope for even you.

          • Bolvon72

            hypocrite? How’s that now?

      • ReadLearnThink

        Lady Free Bird, honey, that is just wishful thinking on your part. You wish to believe that every person who disagrees with you, or makes you look foolish will be tortured forever and ever. But that is not going to happen. Sorry. Your claiming to speak for God is kind of funny, but not too funny, because your kind hurts people, especially young people.

  • elizabeth

    I hope that these lawyers win this case and get this law overturned and make it illegal again.

    • http://www.gofundme.com/moving-closer-to-family Terri Geer

      So, you don’t believe that people shouldn’t be treated equally under the Constitution if you don’t like what they do with it? How special. NOT.

      And how extremely unchristian.

  • Parque_Hundido

    This just makes christians look like they’re throwing a temper tantrum. Since when does an attorney have insight into god’s judgment?

    • http://www.gofundme.com/moving-closer-to-family Terri Geer

      And that they have no idea is secular on purpose.

    • The Last Trump

      Oh you know, from plainly reading The Bible or paying attention to the historical record. Just facts. Pretty basic stuff really.
      And temper tantrums, AGAIN?
      Know any other tunes there, mister broken record?
      Crying about everything Christians say and Christians do just makes you look like you’re having another temper tantrum. Silly!

      • http://www.gofundme.com/moving-closer-to-family Terri Geer

        “Oh you know, from plainly reading The Bible”

        Which version of the Bible are you talking about?

      • Parque_Hundido

        Here he is, pounding his fists, stomping his feet, crying out for the attention he will never get as an impotent little failure of a man…

        • The Last Trump

          …without further ado, please welcome to the stage, the original cry baby himself, PARQUE HUNDIDO!!!!!!!
          (Too easy, bub. Too easy! 🙂

          • Parque_Hundido

            That was sad. While your attempt at imitating me is flattering, you’re just not good enough. Learn to be subtle.

          • The Last Trump

            Awww, don’t cry Parkster!
            Need a tissue little buddy?

          • Parque_Hundido

            He’s back! Still have a crush on me, I see. It won’t end well for you. I’ll reject you just as your parents did. Then you’ll be tempted to molest more children in a futile effort to seek revenge.

            It won’t end well Trumpy, mark my words.

      • Brian_Joness

        Not all Christians believe in homophobia. Not even close.

        • Richard

          No one is afraid of gays. We just don’t approve of immoral behavior.

        • The Last Trump

          Correct. They are called “false” Christians.
          See Bible for any further clarification. 🙂

  • Bill

    no much of an attorney, you’re suppose to argue based on fact and law not myth

    • Richard

      Such as the myth that gays are born that way. Gay supporters lied to society for personal gain. Despicable!!

      • Bill

        science supports the fact that sexual orientation is fixed not that it matters

        • Richard

          That’s nonsense and you know it. Homosexuality is a chosen lifestyle. Deal with it.

          • Bill

            it doesn’t matter since anti-discrimination laws also protect choices. such as a persons choice of religion

          • Richard

            Get ready for a change. We’ve been lied to enough. Truth always wins over evil.

          • Bill

            which is why gay rights are winning over the evil of religious bigotry.

          • Richard

            That evil hasn’t won anything, other than a few more lost souls. Evil never wins. It only seems that way for a time.

          • Bill

            like how it seemed like religious bigots had won but now gay marriage will soon be legalized across America.

          • Richard

            Homosexuality will be punished on the final day. Enjoy your time now, that’s all you’ve got left.

          • Bill

            Bl bal bla. you’ve been say that for centuries face it it’s not gonna happen

          • Richard

            It will happen. And has happened. The moment after each person’s last breath they face the consequences of their decisions and behaviors. Your consequences may be a matter of moments, minutes, or years away. But your appointment has already been set. And there is nothing you can do to escape it.

            And your opinions don’t negate the reality of that appointment and its results.

          • Bill

            your empty threats and nonexistent god don’t frighten me. there will come I time when your religion is tossed into the ash heap of history.

          • Richard

            They aren’t empty. The Jews discovered that. You’ll discover that no matter what your opinion on the matter is.

            > there will come I time when your religion is tossed into the ash heap of history

            There will never come that time. God always leaves Christians on earth. God also said before evil encompasses the earth, He’ll bring an end to everything. So your assertion is once again wrong.

            Besides, your time will come long before that date and you’ll get the very proof you deny exists.

          • Bill

            all religions die eventually yours will be no exception

          • Richard

            God has been around since the beginning of time and we still have religion. Obviously, your comment is once again wrong.

          • Bill

            I didn’t say religion dies (but it will) I said religions die. you can’t deny that

          • Richard

            > I didn’t say religion dies (but it will)

            Of course you said religions die and ours wouldn’t be an exception. Can you not even see the contradiction in your own statements?

          • Bill

            christanity is a religion. all religions eventually die . so christianity will eventually die. is that clear enough for you?

          • Richard

            A belief in God has been around since the beginning of time. Once again your dogmatic assertion is false.

            And as I said, God will intervene long before Christianity dies. Again, your dogmatic assertion is false.

            What you going to see making dogmatic assertions doesn’t equal evidence and facts. Your opinion merely remains your uninformed opinion. It has no bearing on the truth.

            This is why you should question your beliefs. You seem to have bought into your opinions as facts. This is a grave mistake on your part.

          • Bill

            christanity is only a few thousand years old and judaism may be older but it still didn’t exist at the dawn of time (in fact nothing existed then) so you’re wrong

          • Richard

            Adam and Eve knew God right from the beginning. The knowledge of God has been with mankind ever since. So you are once again wrong. You are still batting 100% being wrong on your dogmatic assertions.

          • Bill

            There is no historical evidence that adam and eve existed.

          • Richard

            > There is no historical evidence that adam and eve existed.

            Can you prove that?

          • Bill

            yeah. evolution and the archeology prove it

          • Richard

            You’ve already shown you have no knowledge of either subject, and that your dogmatic assertions are false.

            Stating yet another dogmatic assertion doesn’t help. How about some real facts?

          • Bill

            you have no knowledge. adam and eve didn’t exist that is a fact

          • Richard

            > adam and eve didn’t exist that is a fact

            Restating your dogmatic assertion still doesn’t make it true. Can you prove it?

          • Bill

            yes. evolution and archeology prove it.

          • Richard

            Stating it a third time doesn’t make it true either. Do you have any real proof? Otherwise, you are wrong about this too.

          • Bill

            what I’ve said is real proof. there is no evidence that adam and eve existed. no archeological evidence and no biological evidence

          • Richard

            No, that’s just another dogmatic assertion. It’s sad you can’t tell the difference between your unproven opinion and real proof.

            http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140122134148.htm

          • Bill

            that actually supports evolution . did you even read it?

          • Richard

            Not macro or chemical evolution.

          • Bill

            it’s just evolution. there is no other kind

          • Richard

            Again you demonstrate your ignorance on the subject.

          • Bill

            no I don’t. there is no macro or micro evolution those are terms creationist made up, they aren’t accepted by real academics.

          • Richard

            There are many different forms of evolution. Lumping them altogether is a non believer’s way of protecting his myth.

          • Bill

            it’s not a myth it’s a fact with mountains of evidence to support it.

          • Richard
          • Bill

            did you even read that article?

            Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam weren’t the first humans and they weren’t a couple

          • Richard

            Adam was the first man. Eve was the first woman. To suggest they weren’t a couple is pure speculation.

          • Bill

            but Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam aren’t the biblical adam and eve and they aren’t the first man and women.

          • Richard

            Can you prove your assertion?

          • Bill

            the article you originally posted said It flat out

          • Richard

            As I stated, scientists can only speculate that Adam and Eve weren’t together. Speculation isn’t proof.

          • Bill

            those two aren’t adam and eve, they’re just names.

  • sJames6621

    as usual garbage what kind of god would give man to do aall the horrible things he does to others, eg the free will to engage in the mass organized murder called war, the christian crusades that killed millions of Jews and muslims in an effort to spread chists “love”

    Give me a break

  • sJames6621

    gthe usual trying to create fear and hatred by fundamentalists – the people who also believed that blacks were inferior and gave us segregation and slaverry etc

  • Nick_from_Detroit

    UPDATE: Barronelle Stutzman, the Christian florist who has been mercilessly attacked and sued by homo-fascists has received OVER $160,000, so far!!!!
    Thanks, homo-fascists!

    Here is Mrs. Stutzman’s GoFundMe page:
    http://www.gofundme.com/mz6zm4

    Perhaps, all of you haters out there could listen to the gay community, who are ashamed of all of you. People like Courtney Hoffman & Buz Smith, who both donated to the Indiana pizza shop owners GoFundMe page. And, who both denounced all of the hateful attacks on those poor people.
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/07/gay-woman-apologizes-to-christian-owned-indiana-pizzeria-sends-donation/

    You haters could only raise 650 bucks! Losers!

    • Bill

      so what? she still lost and will keep losing if she continues to discriminate.

      • Richard

        It’s wise to discriminate against immoral behavior.

        • Bill

          what you consider immoral is irrelevant . you don’t have the right to discriminate

          • Richard

            Everyone should be discrimating against immoral behavior. Else society would crumble under its own foolishness.

          • Bill

            never gonna happen pig. you don’t have the right to discriminate even
            against things your warped faith considers wrong so suck it up or leave.

          • Richard

            Yes, it is going to happen. Then, you’ll see the power of God.

          • Bill

            has it happened in any of the countries were sexual orientation is protected? it doesn’t matter what you think your god says you still mist follow the law

          • Richard

            It will happen in a Christian country because there is power in prayer. Get ready for the tide to change.

          • Bill

            keep dreaming pig that’s the only place your delusion have creditability

          • Richard

            That’s what the Jews said, too, until the Romans wiped them out. Same with you. You can say that for a time, but only as long as God allows it. Then you’ll have you full evidence of the reality of God.

          • Bill

            um the jews weren’t wiped out. and your god doesn’t exist just like all the other man made deities. the only way they can have any power is through fanatics like you

          • Richard

            Can you prove your assertion that God doesn’t exist? Surely you have more than just your opinion?

          • Bill

            the burden is on you to prove that your god does exist.

          • Richard

            God has already proved it with over 2000 years of recorded history and in the life of Jesus Christ. To believe God doesn’t exist requires you proving it not just saying it. Can you prove it?

          • Bill

            that doesn’t prove anything except your own stupidity. provide real evidence that god exists.

          • Richard

            Jesus Christ.

          • Bill

            was just a dead carpenter.

          • Richard

            That’s another dogmatic assertion. Can you prove it?

            I noticed you haven’t proven any of your dogmatic assertions yet. As such, they remain just your uninformed opinion.

            Can’t you see that your opinion is just that? It’s not based on fact. Not based on anything other than your personal preference. Neither of these are facts. Unless you can prove them. Can you?

          • Bill

            you’re the one that needs to prove your claims not me.

          • Richard

            As I said, you’re the one that made the dogmatic assertions. It’s your job to prove them. I’ll ask you one last time, can you prove that there is no God?

            If you can’t, that means your dogmatic assertions are false. That means you are wrong.

          • Bill

            you need to like up what dogmatic means because your the one making dogmatic assertions. I don’t need to prove anything but you do.

          • Richard

            You’ve made many dogmatic assertions. You haven’t proven any of them. This means your opinion is wrong. If you continue to assert that wrong opinion, that will mean you are lying.

            But I’ve noticed many gay supporters lie a lot. So I won’t be surprised if you continue to make those false assertions. But that will speak highly of your character. Lie if you think you need to.

          • Bill

            if you cannot prove your claim then I am right since mine is the default assumption

          • Richard

            You’ve proven none of your assertions. Therefore, they are all false. If you continue to make false assertions, you will be a liar.

          • Bill

            the default assumption is that jesus was just a man so it’s up to you to prove otherwise.

          • Richard

            There is no default assumption. The historical record clearly states that Jesus is God. If you don’t believe that, you will need to disprove it. But I’ve asked you many times now to do that, and you haven’t. So I’m going to take that as you can’t.

            This means that any further assertions by you to the contrary is deliberately and willfully lying.

          • Bill

            no it doesn’t. your bible says that and it isn’t a history book. just out of curiosity have you ever seen a psychiatrist? because I think one would do wonders for you.

          • Richard

            The Bible is regarded as a historical record. Claiming that it isn’t displays your lack of knowledge in this area.

            Why is it the gay supporters have to resort to insults? Is it because you have no reasoned arguments?

          • Bill

            by who? no legitimate historian believes this.

          • Richard

            If you actually checked, you would find that most historians and scholars agree that the Bible is accurately recorded historical fact.

            Yours, is just another unfounded assertion.

          • Bill

            then you should have no trouble providing their names.

          • Richard

            “On the whole … archaeological work has unquestionably strengthened confidence in the reliability of the Scriptural record. More than one archaeologist has found his respect for the Bible increased by the experience of excavation in Palestine. Archaeology has in many cases refuted the views of modern critics.” – Millar Burrows, Professor of Archaeology, Yale University

          • Bill

            Like I said no legitimate historian believes that garbage.

          • Richard

            “The excessive scepticism shown toward the Bible by important historical schools of the eighteenth-and-nineteenth centuries, certain phases of which still appear periodically, has been progressively discredited. Discovery after discovery has established the accuracy of innumerable details, and has brought increased recognition to the value of the Bible as a source of history.” – William F. Albrigh, archeologist

          • Bill

            how about someone from this century?

          • Richard

            I could post quotes all day. Only skeptics question the veracity of the Bible.

          • Bill

            because they’re the ones that are actually intelligent

          • Richard

            Skeptics doubt. Doubting doesn’t have to equal intelligence.

          • Bill

            In this case it does.

          • Richard

            Just another dogmatic assertion. You appear to be full of them. And wrong on all of them so far. Shouldn’t that be telling you something about your beliefs?

          • Richard

            Are you saying that the Jews weren’t wiped out by the Romans in 70 AD? Do you have proof that the historical account is wrong?

            Are is yours just another dogmatic assertion? But not actual fact?

          • Bill

            wiped out implies that there are none left, since that obviously isn’t true I can say that the jews weren’t wiped out.

          • Richard

            No, wiped out means a major victory over and a destruction of their lifestyle and loss of country.

          • Bill

            no it doesn’t, it means eradicated. for example. “the dodo was wiped out by settlers and the animals they brought with them”

          • Richard

            Yes, it does. The entire Jewish culture was destroyed in 70 AD. They lost their country and chosen lifestyle. Wiped out doesn’t necessarily mean all people were killed.

            Nevertheless, the Jews were warned for hundreds of years and they too said, “Where is your God?”…until God acted.

            God doesn’t change. He still punishes sin. It’s not a matter of if, but when.

          • Bill

            are you actually saying that the jews deserved what the romans did to them?

          • Richard

            I’m saying that the Jews rebelled against God, he warned them over hundreds and hundreds of years, and because they still rebelled in spite of his warnings, they were punished.

            That is the penalty for sin… Punishment! As I said, it’s not a matter of if, but when.

            All sinners are subject to that punishment and the only thing they can do about it is to repent, receive Christ, and then be absolved of sin’s consequences.

          • Bill

            I’ll take that as a yes in which case you’re an awful human being.

          • Richard

            You don’t believe in justice? Should all murderers be set free?

            And by what authority gives you the right to say that I’m a awful human being? What makes you think your moral code is superior in someone else’s?

          • Bill

            What the Romans did wasn’t justice and you’re an evil human if you think it was.

          • Richard

            God has the highest court. He ruled and his justice was exercised. God’s justice is far above mere human justice.

            And as I asked you once before, what gives you the right to judge me? What moral code do you subscribe to that is superior to someone else’s?

            How about answering any of the questions I’ve asked you so far?

          • Bill

            so was what happen to the naive americans justice or what the Japaneses and Nazis did? if these atrocities are gods will then your god is evil and undeserving of worship

          • Richard

            All of the actions you mentioned are a result of man’s greediness and what he perceives as justice. If you have an issue with them, look in the mirror because that is the same moral code you are using.

          • Bill

            it’s the only moral code anyone uses. morality is a human construct

          • Richard

            > morality is a human construct

            That’s another dogmatic assertion. Can you prove that one?

          • Bill
          • Richard

            That’s just someone’s opinion. Do you have some hard facts? Not conjecture and speculation?

          • Bill

            what i presented is a fact and it’s up to your to prove otherwise.

          • Richard

            It’s not fact! Moral evolution has always been speculated. That also applies to macroevolution. Inferred speculation, but hardly fact.

          • Bill

            no such thing as macro-evolution. it’s just evolution

          • Richard

            You are wrong on this account, too! So far, you are batting 100 percent false on your dogmatic assertions.

          • Bill

            no you’re just insane

          • Richard

            “…I simply do not understand, chemically, how macroevolution could have happened. Hence, am I not free to join the ranks of the skeptical and to sign such a statement without reprisals from those that disagree with me? … Does anyone understand the chemical details behind macroevolution? If so, I would like to sit with that person and be taught, so I invite them to meet with me.” – Professor James Tour, one of the ten most cited chemists in the world.

          • Bill

            a chemist isn’t biologist. just because he’s an expert in one field doesn’t mean he’s an expert on everything

          • Richard

            Your ignorance on the subject just displayed itself in great magnificence.

          • Bill

            you’re the ignorant one not me.

          • Richard

            To suggest a chemist has no knowledge of evolution is ludicrous. It also means you have no idea what you are talking about, which explains a great deal of your comments.

          • Bill

            biology is the field that evolution has the most relevance too not chemistry. and anyway most scientists accept that evolution is fact.

          • Richard

            Many people believe a lot of things. But that doesn’t make them true.

            “The simple truth is that there is no hard evidence for macroevolution; it is inferred by extrapolating microevolution over geological ages. Yet this inference is questionable.” – Dr Hugh Henry, Daniel Diyck, Dr Charles Cruze, Evolution as Mythology: The Myth of Macroevolution

            “It must be admitted that the … proof of the utilization of mutations in evolution under natural conditions has not yet been given.” – Julian Huxley, Evolution, the Modern Synthesis (New York and London: Harper Brothers, 1943), 116.

            “to insist … that life appeared quite by chance and evolved in this fashion is an unfounded supposition which … (is) not in accordance with the facts.” – Pierre-P. Grassé, Evolution of Living Organisms, (New York: Academic Press, 1977), 107.

            “I have seen no evidence whatsoever that these changes can occur through the accumulation of gradual mutations.” – Charles Mann, “Lynn Margulis: Science’s Unruly Earth Mother,” Science 252 (April 19, 1991): 378-381.

          • Bill

            you’re not only insane but stupid as well

            http://necsi.edu/projects/evolution/evidence/evidence_intro.html

          • Richard

            More insults.

            As I said, macroevolution has always been inferred, but never proven.

            If you believe otherwise, provide ONE example of macroevolution including all of its intermediate transitions. No one has to date, but maybe you can. Can you?

          • Bill
          • Richard

            Just provide ONE example of macroevolution with all of it’s intermediate transitions. Can you?

            You posted some links, surely you should be able to find ONE actual example.

          • Bill

            the links provide the examples.

          • Richard

            They provide none because none exist. Had you taken the time to study the subject, you would have known this.

          • Bill

            can you even read? the two articles I posted provide evidence of evolution.

          • Richard

            Micro, speciation, and microbial. But not macro and chemical. These have always been inferred but never proven.

          • Richard

            What God thinks remains steadfast. He created everything, not you. He will judge you. Repent while there is still time.

          • Bill

            you god has no authority, the law does and it says you cannot discriminate. and I have no fear of your worthless fairytale.

          • Richard

            God has all authority, you have none. He’ll let you thumb your nose at him, but only for a time. Enjoy your time now because that is all you have.

          • Bill

            it’s all anyone has including you once we’re dead that’s it.

          • Richard

            Jesus proved your opinion wrong.

          • Bill

            Like i said delusion don”t matter and that includes 2000 year old delusions.

          • Richard

            The historical record has stood the test of time and criticism by much wiser people than you. You are delusional to think your uninformed opinion is real over the actual recorded historical facts.

          • Bill

            the historical record says jesus existed not that he was the son of god or that he came back to life. and the the only reason that garbage has persisted is because your kind killed anyone who disagreed.

          • Richard

            The historical record says exactly that Jesus is God. Can you prove it wrong? Do you have some facts to back up your assertion?

          • Bill

            what record are you even referring to?

          • Richard

            Recorded history! The Bible – it’s entirety – is recorded history. To make your claims, you need to prove the recorded history wrong. Can you?

          • Bill

            the bible is fiction not history. real history says that jesus was just a man

          • Richard

            That’s a dogmatic assertion. Can you prove that? You would be the first person to do that, since it’s been tried countless times over the last 2000 years by people far smarter than you.

            Dogmatic assertions aren’t fact, but merely opinion. Unless you can prove your assertions. Can you?

          • Bill

            again the burden is on you to provide real proof that jesus was the son of god and no the bible doesn’t count

          • Richard

            No, the burden of proof is on you to prove your assertions that God isn’t real. You made the claim. Except you to prove it. Can you?

            Jesus Christ came to earth to prove he was God. He was killed for that, and rose again to prove he was God. That is a matter of the historical record. If you don’t believe it, you will have to have some proof to disprove it, not just assert it. Can you prove it?

          • Bill

            except it isn’t a matter of historical record since the bible isn’t considered a historical record by any sane person. history acknowledges that jesus existed but that’s it

          • Richard

            Of course the Bible is accepted as a historical record.… By historians and scholars. It’s only uninformed and uneducated skeptics that hold the opinion that the Bible isn’t considered a historical record.

            Since you fall into the latter category, you are hardly in a position to refute that which you don’t know much about.

            The historical record claims that Jesus Christ is God. If you don’t believe that, you will need to disprove it not just assert it. Can you?

            This will be the last time I ask you this question. If you don’t provide proof, that will prove you have none. In which case, your opinion is incorrect.

          • Paul Hiett

            If you want to experience his hypocrisy, ask him to now prove that any other deity, such as Odin, does not exist.

          • Celephais

            According to Norse mythology, Odin was licked out of a block of ice by a giant cow in outer space. Do we seriously think a refutation of that origin is necessary?

          • Celephais

            Why do you not consider the New Testament historical? Is it because it describes miracles? If so, you would be importing the unproven principle that miracles are impossible into the account, which would not prove the Gospels inaccurate. If we examine the Gospels by the same criteria with which we examine any other historical record of its time, we see that the best explanation for the empty tomb is that Jesus rose from the dead. Space precludes going into a lot of detail here, but I will be happy to address the major alternatives one at a time if you wish.

          • Bill

            piss off

          • Celephais

            “A stone is heavy and sand is weighty, but a fool’s provocation is heavier than both.” Prov. 27:3. You have a nice day too, Bill.

          • Bill

            do you think that quoting that garbage will have any effect?

          • Celephais

            I am called to witness, Bill. Having an effect is between you and God.

        • BarkingDawg

          Well, profitable, at least. How much longer will the gullible keep shilling out cash for these con artists?

        • weasel1886

          Then all people should be discriminated against

    • Parque_Hundido

      The queer community is delighted to hear this news. This means that Ms. Stutzman has an additional $160,000 to pay to the gay couple in damages in the civil suit she is currently facing and will certainly lose.

      Under Washington business law,Ms. Stutzman is liable for judgments up to the full amount of her personal net worth. With this donation, the victims of her unlawful discrimination are GUARANTEED TO WIN THE SUM TOTAL OF ALL DONATIONS!!!

      As you can imagine, the queer community is absolutely thrilled to learn that the gay couple will personally profit from the donations of anti-gay extremists.

      SHARE THE FABULOUS NEWS!!!!!!

      • Richard

        Your is an example of gay activism, and not of tolerance, love, and acceptance.

        The entire gay agenda was a fraud. Thanks for pointing that out so clearly!

        • Parque_Hundido

          I do not tolerate, love or accept bigots. Where and when have I claimed otherwise?

  • Phipps Mike

    “forcing states to recognize same-sex “marriage” could bring God’s judgment upon the nation.”
    still wondering what IDIOTS actually believe that. The scripture says that NO MAN will know when tribulations are to happen. If all it took was for people to accept gay marriage to end the world, thats putting the power in our own hands.
    Doomsayers need to die and spare us their stupidity.

  • ReadLearnThink

    Really?

  • Tricia365
  • Richard

    Fellow Christians, pray that God would right these wrongs. Pray that America would return to Godly ways. Because whoever is not for God, is against Him. These are spiritual battles and need to be fought as such.

  • UmustBKiddinMe

    Well with such a sound legal argument, I don’t even know why the court is bothering to hear arguments. Without a doubt, law in our nation should be make based upon whether some people believe that the wrath of their god will be visited upon us.

    Plus, just look how God has reacted to other countries and states in the US where same-gender marriage is legal. Oh, wait, nothing. Oh well. I’m sure it’s just a matter of time.

    Goodness knows, all of our wars, murders, letting people starve, not caring for the sick or the poor are not reasons for God to release his wrath on the nation. No, it’s allowing two citizens of the same gender to be legally married that is going to really make him mad.

    • Richard

      Do you know about the story of Sodom and Gomorrah?

      • UmustBKiddinMe

        Yes, I do. Why do you ask?

        • Richard

          It demonstrates what God thinks about homosexuality. God doesn’t change and neither does his reaction to sin.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            Actually, it does not. The issue of homosexuality was not in the original story of S&G. It was added later. Further, the sin of S&G was a lack of hospitality to strangers. Finally, because you have chosen to believe that the Bible contains God’s thoughts on homosexuality does not mean that is true. It is merely what you have chosen to believe. You cannot know for certain what God thinks unless you are God. Are you God, Richard?

          • Richard

            > The issue of homosexuality was not in the original story of S&G. It was added later.

            That’s nonsense. The OT is Jewish history. It hasn’t been tampered with.

            > Further, the sin of S&G was a lack of hospitality to strangers.

            No it wasn’t. Your understanding of the story is wrong.

            > Finally, because you have chosen to believe that the Bible contains God’s thoughts on homosexuality does not mean that is true.

            Yes, it does. You will need to prove the existence of God and that He isn’t sovereign in order to defend your claim. Can you?

            > You cannot know for certain what God thinks unless you are God.

            God left us His word so that we would know about Him and what He thinks. As I said, you will need to disprove God and His word to make your claim true. Can you prove that? Keep in mind opinions aren’t truths.

          • weasel1886

            Ezekiel 16:49-50declares, “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and diddetestablethings before me…”

            Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/Sodom-and-Gomorrah.html#ixzz3X6MVxZeX

          • Richard

            They had many sins. But God punished it for:

            Now the men of Sodom were wicked exceedingly and sinners against the LORD. – Genesis 13:13

            “Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom —both young and old—surrounded the house. They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have s e x with them.” – Genesis 19:4-5

            “In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.” – 1 Jude 7

          • weasel1886

            Ezekiel 16:49-50

            I guess this book doesn’t count

          • Richard

            It’s another reference to a larger problem.

            BTW, if you don’t believe the Bible is true, why cite from it? Isn’t doing so hypocritical?

          • weasel1886

            I never said it wasn’t true.
            I just believe society and culture drive our interpretation of it

          • Richard

            > I never said it wasn’t true.

            Good to hear.

            >I just believe society and culture drive our interpretation of i

            That would be a mistake. The Bible needs to be understood the way the writers intended, and not by what the reader wants to take from it.

          • weasel1886

            But all religious works and other literature are interpreted in cultural context. There is no escaping that. 120 years ago the labor movement was supported by Christians and the rights of workers were central to Christian faith . Today most conservative Christians disdain workers rights. The Bible din’y change just man’s view.

          • Richard

            > But all religious works and other literature are interpreted in cultural context

            Maybe some are, but Christianity shouldn’t.

            > Today most conservative Christians disdain workers rights.

            That is a gross generalization. In the cases it is true, that is a reflection of people, but not God or the Bible.

          • weasel1886

            Why isn’t S and G brought up concerning other issues

          • Richard

            The most prevalent sin was of homosexuality, which is why God destroyed it.

            But S&G also demonstrate how depraved they became on all levels. It was so bad, not even 10 people were righteous in those cities. That is an example of how far people can fall from the truth once they start suppressing the truth.

            Noah’s flood is another example of a society without God. Similar destruction, right?

            When you combine these examples with the Jewish people prior to 70 AD, it’s plain to see what God does in response to rampant sin. We can either learn from it, or experience the same fate. The choice is ours.

          • BarkingDawg

            What about Ezekiel 23:30?

          • weasel1886

            interesting

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            “The OT is Jewish history. It hasn’t been tampered with.”

            Oh yeah, right, no tampering.

            “Yes, it does.”

            Why does your decision to believe that the Bible contains God’s views make it true that it does?

            “God left us His word so that we would know about Him and what He thinks.”

            That is what you have chosen to believe.

            “As I said, you will need to disprove God and His word to make your claim true.”

            No, I do not. I didn’t make the claim that something is true. That was your claim. The burden of proof is on you.

            “Keep in mind opinions aren’t truths.”

            Exactly. And it is your opinion that the Bible contains God’s views. That does not make it definitely true. That’s why it’s called “faith” and not “fact”.

          • Richard

            > Oh yeah, right, no tampering

            That’s correct. No tampering as the NT traveled through generations intact. It was set long before 200 BC. The Dead Sea scrolls attest to that fact.

            > Why does your decision to believe that the Bible contains God’s views make it true that it does?

            The Bible makes extraordinary claims that many can be verified. Jesus corroborates the OT. Jesus fulfilled the OT prophecies. Jesus proves the Bible true.

            If you believe God isn’t real, and that the Bible isn’t God’s word, it is up to you to prove your assertions. Can you?

            Otherwise, yours is just an unsubstantiated opinion.

            When you can prove God isn’t real and that the Bible isn’t God’s word, let me know.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            “No tampering as the NT traveled through generations intact. It was set long before 200 BC. ”

            It wasn’t written until after Christ’s death.

            “The Bible makes extraordinary claims that many can be verified.”

            Such as?

            “If you believe God isn’t real”

            I do believe God is real.

            “it is up to you to prove your assertions. Can you?”

            No, that is not how logical arguments work. You claimed that you can prove something is true, therefore the burden of proof is on you to prove that claim. One can’t prove a negative. It would be like saying; Prove Bigfoot doesn’t exist.

            “When you can prove God isn’t real and that the Bible isn’t God’s word, let me know.

            When you can prove the Bible is God’s work, let me know.

          • weasel1886

            And what he thinks of not caring for others

          • Richard

            God destroyed it for homosexuality. Trying to spin that speaks of desperation.

          • Paul Hiett

            He’s not wrong, Richard. You just don’t like hearing the truth.

      • weasel1886

        So is God coming after us for not caring for widows? That was another reason it was destoyed

        • Richard

          The main reason was homosexuality.

      • Jefferson_Lebowski

        It’s just a metaphorical story…..it never happened.

        • Richard

          Can you prove your assertion? Unless you can prove the historical record wrong, your opinion is wrong.

          • Paul Hiett

            Neither can you prove a single one of those stories in the Bible as true, but apparently not being able to prove something is proof that it’s real, according to your beliefs.

            Yeah, yeah, I know you won’t respond, since you tucked tail and ran, but at least you can’t say you weren’t told the truth.

          • Richard

            You’re a liar and nothing you say can be trusted. Just as you lied here, too.

            The Bible claimed Cyrus the Great would capture Babylon. If you check history, you’d see this is true.

            The Bible claims Tyre would be destroyed. It was by Alexander the Great.

            These are just two of thousands of ‘stories’ confirmed by non Biblical histories.

            You are untrustworthy, Paul. Nothing you say now will change that.

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Richard,
            A snarky video about how the liberal LameStreamMedia, and atheists, look at Christians today (enjoy!):
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbKLkg-5sGY

          • Nick_from_Detroit

            Oops! I meant to link to this one, which is more on topic with your refutation of Paul’s bogus arguments:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d4FHHf00pY

          • Jefferson_Lebowski

            Bullshit…..absolute Bullshit. I am not the one making postie claims about supernatural realities. It is up to you to prove your claims……so prove them.

    • BarkingDawg

      Well with such a sound legal argument, I don’t even know why the court is bothering to hear arguments.

      LOL LOL LOL

      good one.

  • railhead

    The problem with a government that doesn’t recognize God is that they think that automatically makes THEM god. All of a sudden THEY set the moral standard and start trying to tell everyone what’s right and wrong. Whereas, a government that recognizes God is only ruling where they have jurisdiction. That’s why we have a government that’s trying to decide on issues like this.

  • Jefferson_Lebowski

    First God creates human beings gay (they are born that way) and then he doesn’t like them to be that way? You people are crazy.

    We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes.

    • Richard

      God doesn’t create people gay. They learn to behave that way. Homosexuality is a behavior, not an inborn trait.

      Your logic is the problem, not God.

      • BarkingDawg

        Actually, no. There is, in fact, considerable scientific research showing that same gender attraction is, in fact, very much an inborn trait.

        • Richard

          Not at all. Attraction is learned and fluid.

          • BarkingDawg
          • Richard

            I could post a number of links to the contrary. Homosexuality is not innate. Just ask the thousands who have returned to a heterosexual lifestyle whether through therapy or on their own. The evidence speaks louder than those who are trying to mislead.

          • Covered California

            Please put me in contact with the thousands who returned to heterosexuality and no longer have thoughts about the same séx.

          • Covered California

            I’m gay too and never made a conscious decision to be attracted to the same séx. Are you still going to tell me to my face I chose to be attracted to thethe same séx? Im not sexually active, but not being sexually active does not make me heterosexual.

      • Paul Hiett

        Oh look who’s not only speaking on behalf of his deity, but lying for him as well!

        • Richard

          You are a habitual liar and deceiver. Seems to fit the gay lifestyle.

          • Paul Hiett

            Well, we can certainly discuss this whole accusation about lying if you’re willing to be rational, but thus far it seems you are not willing to do that.

          • Richard

            You are untrustworthy, Paul. You’ve demonstrated it numerous times in the last few days. I choose to not interact with people like that.

          • Paul Hiett

            You mean like pointing out that it’s a fact that no one “knows” if any deity is real? You call that “lying”???

            That’s…sad.

          • Richard

            Yes, that’s lying, especially since all of the disciples knew Jesus was God, as well as a great many Christians over 2000 years who’ve had close relationships with God. In spite of this, you keep claiming no one knows if God is real.

            That is lying. That is truly sad.

      • SFBruce

        It’s not clear exactly how sexual orientation is formed, but scientists overwhelmingly agree that choice plays no part. And you’re wrong to describe homosexuality as a behavior, when that’s only one component of three to sexual orientation: (1) desire or orientation, (2) behavior and (3) identity.

        • Richard

          > It’s not clear exactly how sexual orientation is formed

          It’s very clear. Only the uninformed claim innate.

          Homosexuality is a behavior. Behavior is chosen whether you realize it or not. If you study sexual development you’ll see the many factors that contribute to the development of sexual identity and attraction.

          • SFBruce

            “Behavior is chosen whether you realize it or not.”

            That’s a nonsensical statement. I’m gay, and trust me, I didn’t choose it, and I doubt if you can name the time and place you choose to be heterosexual. While I agree that sexual orientation is the result of many factors, that seems to contradict your claim that it’s a simple choice. And if that were the case, why do those trying to change talk about their “struggle” with “unwanted SSA?” Why can’t they just choose to just flip that switch off and be straight?

          • Richard

            > That’s a nonsensical statement.

            That statement is fact. Many people behave yet don’t understand why they behave the way they do. Ask a recovered alcoholic or someone who has overcome one of the many psychological and emotional issues people often struggle with (anger, anxiety, depression, addictions, relationship problems, etc.).

            > I didn’t choose it

            Just as the above, you may not realize why you choose gay relationships, but you did.

            > While I agree that sexual orientation is the result of many factors, that seems to contradict your claim that it’s a simple choice.

            No contradiction. There are many factors. None include born that way. I didn’t suggest the reasons for the choice were simple. Just as there are many factors at the root of other psychological and emotional issues, the same is true for homosexuality.

            > And if that were the case, why do those trying to change talk about their “struggle” with “unwanted SSA?

            Just as making healthy behavioral change with other psychological and emotional problems isn’t easy, the same is true for homosexuality.

            Many people also have a hard time quitting smoking, over eating, breaking addictions. But that doesn’t mean any of them are ‘innate.’

            > Why can’t they just choose to just flip that switch off and be straight?

            Some do.

            There is no question that homosexuality is a behavior. Just because you (and others) don’t understand it, doesn’t mean it isn’t.

          • SFBruce

            I already acknowledged that behavior is an element of sexual orientation. I know we’re worlds apart on this issue, but I try to respond to what you actually write; the same in return would be nice. Another area you may want to avoid is the appearance that you actually know more about my life than I do. You don’t.

            From the American Psychological Association, “Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.” There is no reputable scientific organization that believes choice plays a role in sexual orientation. If you have something to refute that, now would be good time to tell us about it.

          • Richard

            > Another area you may want to avoid is the appearance that you actually know more about my life and I do.

            While I don’t know about your personal life, I do understand the issues behind homosexuality. There is significant research, practical experience, and evidence to support my claims. It’s well understood by those who work with homosexuals.

            I understand the official statements by the APA. But these were crafted due to gay pressure, not because of the realities of homosexuality. The American Psychiatric Association changed their official position due to political pressure, as well. You will see these change in the future as more of the truth is allowed to come forward.

            > There is no reputable scientific organization that believes choice plays a role in sexual orientation.

            Yes, there are. But they’ve been silenced due to gay activism. This is about to change, too.

          • SFBruce

            Why don’t you specify what these sources are? It’s easy to simply dismiss the overwhelming scientific consensus as politically motivated. But if you want any kind of credibility on this issue, you’re going to need to actually specify all this “significant research…to support my (your) claims.” That should be a piece of cake, if indeed, it’s all politically motivated.

          • Richard

            Two large studies asked homosexual respondents to explain the origins of their desires and behaviors — how they “got that way.” The first of these studies was conducted by Kinsey in the 1940s and involved 1700 homosexuals. The second, in 1970, involved 979 homosexuals. Both were conducted prior to the period when the “gay rights” movement started to politicize the issue of homosexual origins. Both reported essentially the same findings: homosexuals overwhelmingly believed their feelings and behavior were the result of social or environmental influences. – Bell (1973) Homosexualities: their range and character. Nebraska Symposium on Motivation Cole & Dienstbier (eds) Univ Nebraska Press; King (1980) The Etiology of Homosexuality as Related to Childhood Experiences and Adult Adjustment Ed.D. Thesis, Indiana Univ.

            In a 1983 study conducted by the Family Research Institute (FRI) involving a random sample of 147 homosexuals, 35% said their sexual desires were hereditary. – Cameron, et al (1989) Effect of homosexuality upon public health and social order. Psychological Rpts 64:1167-79; Cameron, et al (1988) Homosexuals in the armed forces. Psychological Rpts 62:211-9; Cameron, et al (1986) Child molestation and homosexuality. Psychological Rpts 58:327-37; Cameron (1985) Homosexual molestation of children/sexual interaction of teacher and pupil. Psychological Rpts 57:1227-36.

            Almost 80% of the 3,400 heterosexuals in the same study said that their preferences and behavior were learned – Cameron, et al (1989) Effect of homosexuality upon public health and social order. Psychological Rpts 64:1167-79; Cameron, et al (1988) Homosexuals in the armed forces. Psychological Rpts 62:211-9; Cameron, et al (1986) Child molestation and homosexuality. Psychological Rpts 58:327-37; Cameron (1985) Homosexual molestation of children/sexual interaction of teacher and pupil. Psychological Rpts 57:1227-36.

          • Richard

            With respect to choice, even though gays may have a ‘learned’ attraction to same s e x partners, they still choose to act on it. That in itself displays choice.

          • Richard

            Two large studies asked homosexual respondents to explain the origins of their desires and behaviors — how they “got that way.” The first of these studies was conducted by Kinsey in the 1940s and involved 1700 homosexuals. The second, in 1970, involved 979 homosexuals. Both were conducted prior to the period when the “gay rights” movement started to politicize the issue of homosexual origins. Both reported essentially the same findings: homosexuals overwhelmingly believed their feelings and behavior were the result of social or environmental influences. – Bell (1973) Homosexualities: their range and character. Nebraska Symposium on Motivation Cole & Dienstbier (eds) Univ Nebraska Press; King (1980) The Etiology of Homosexuality as Related to Childhood Experiences and Adult Adjustment Ed.D. Thesis, Indiana Univ.

            In a 1983 study conducted by the Family Research Institute (FRI) involving a random sample of 147 homosexuals, 35% said their sexual desires were hereditary. – Cameron, et al (1989) Effect of homosexuality upon public health and social order. Psychological Rpts 64:1167-79; Cameron, et al (1988) Homosexuals in the armed forces. Psychological Rpts 62:211-9; Cameron, et al (1986) Child molestation and homosexuality. Psychological Rpts 58:327-37; Cameron (1985) Homosexual molestation of children/sexual interaction of teacher and pupil. Psychological Rpts 57:1227-36.

            Almost 80% of the 3,400 heterosexuals in the same study said that their preferences and behavior were learned – Cameron, et al (1989) Effect of homosexuality upon public health and social order. Psychological Rpts 64:1167-79; Cameron, et al (1988) Homosexuals in the armed forces. Psychological Rpts 62:211-9; Cameron, et al (1986) Child molestation and homosexuality. Psychological Rpts 58:327-37; Cameron (1985) Homosexual molestation of children/sexual interaction of teacher and pupil. Psychological Rpts 57:1227-36.

            In a large random sample, 88% of women currently claiming lesbian attraction and 73% of men claiming to currently enjoy homosexual s e x, said that they had been sexually aroused by the opposite s e x. – Cameron, et al (1989) Effect of homosexuality upon public health and social order. Psychological Rpts 64:1167-79; Cameron, et al (1988) Homosexuals in the armed forces. Psychological Rpts 62:211-9; Cameron, et al (1986) Child molestation and homosexuality. Psychological Rpts 58:327-37; Cameron (1985) Homosexual molestation of children/sexual interaction of teacher and pupil. Psychological Rpts 57:1227-36.

            There are ex-homosexuals — those who have continued in homosexual liaisons for a number of years and then choose to change not only their habits, but also the object of their desire. Sometimes this alteration occurs as the result of psychotherapy; – Beiber, et al (1962) Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study Basic Books.

      • Tristan A

        You are wrong. I have never chosen to be homosexual. If it was a choice, i probably would have chosen to be straight, much easier to conform to society’s irrational wishes. However, I am gay, and damned proud about that.

        • Jefferson_Lebowski

          This is why religion is immoral….

      • Jefferson_Lebowski

        Spinner of yarns because science doesn’t conform to your supernatural beliefs. The 21st Century already left you behind. You are irrelevant…..

  • BarkingDawg

    I guarantee that the justices will give that filing all the weight that it deserves. In other words, none at all.

  • Dream Theater Moment of Reason

    “Surrender To Reason”

    In moments of pain
    Where heart and mind collide
    Self reflection helps me decide
    I believe the sacrifices in life
    Give more than they take

    Visions flowing slowly shedding light
    Memories swimming in the sea of time
    Pieces to the puzzle falling into place
    That with which we struggle through we’ve learned to embrace

    Love show the way, alter my state of mind
    Wash away the sorrow
    Grace lead the way
    When boundaries are found
    Surrender to reason

    Life gives you brighter days
    Through sacrifices made
    My spirit travels like the wind and waves
    My heart and mind unite
    Mistakes resolved give sight
    The river’s currents slowly turns the stone

    Restless angels
    Help me find my way
    Restless angels
    Help me find my strength

    Restless angels
    Help me find my way
    Restless angels
    Let love show the way
    Let grace be the way
    Surrender to reason

    I believe we must surrender to Reason, both in discussion and opinion. We must Sacrifice for each other in love. Life gives brighter days.

    What that means is through God who is Love, he finds Grace for us. If we only recognize the power of God as love, that is when we resolve within ourselves our power through God to love others as Christ first loved us.

  • Glen Jackson

    God’s judgement had already begun. California is facing a severe drought. That state is being punished.

    • BarkingDawg

      Yeah, right.

  • ltneid

    Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and others killed tens of millions of people without incurring God’s judgement, but gay marriage will do us in? Give me a break.

    • Nick_from_Detroit

      Allowing Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, and all the other God-less atheists, (along with Hitler & Mussolini), to fester and spread their lies was God’s Judgment on the world, Einstein.

      • Tristan A

        Why do we leave out one of the previous popes? forbidding people to use condemns in the 3rd world has condemned millions of people to die from HIV/AIDS.

        • Nick_from_Detroit

          Wrong, Tristan, on soooo many levels, I don’t know where to begin.
          The Pope doesn’t forbid it, Christ does, through the Magisterium of His Church. In other words, the prohibition against all forms of contraception is NOT an ex cathedra proclamation of any pope.
          Your cognitive dissonance is caused by your erroneous assumption that those 3rd World-ers are obeying the Church’s teaching against using cond0ms, while, at the same time, disobeying the Church’s teachings on adultery and/or pre-marital sexual relations. Do you see the problem with that?

          If people would only listen to the Catholic Church and only engage in the marital act within the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, no one would be dying of HIV/AIDS, would they?

          • Tristan A

            Tell that to the women of which the husband had been fooling around and as a result infected her.
            Besides this, the church has actually been preaching that condoms contributed to hiv aids.
            The church knows that everywhere in the world (not only 3rd world) man/woman have the tendency to sleep around. There are even cultures where polygamy is socially beneficial, as otherwise widows of young hunters who died during the hunt would go without protection and food. And i do remember that polygamy is actually often described in the bible.
            So no, i am not wrong.if you are so influantial as the church and you then chose to willfully misinform people, even in a different social context, you commit a crime against humanity and should be tried. It is massmurder that turns stalin, hitler and mao into choirboys.

  • Nick_from_Detroit

    UPDATE: Barronelle Stutzman, the Christian florist who has been mercilessly attacked and sued by homo-fascists has received OVER $165,000, so far!!!!
    Thanks, homo-fascists!

    Here is Mrs. Stutzman’s GoFundMe page:
    http://www.gofundme.com/mz6zm4

    Perhaps, all of you haters out there could listen to the gay community, who are ashamed of all of you. People like Courtney Hoffman & Buz Smith, who both donated to the Indiana pizza shop owners GoFundMe page. And, who both denounced all of the hateful attacks on those poor people.

  • Nick_from_Detroit

    A snarky video about how the liberal LameStreamMedia, and atheists, look at Christians today (enjoy!):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbKLkg-5sGY

  • Jefferson_Lebowski

    Some of the so-called “Christians” posting their Biblical inspired hatred of Gays on here are the same as those who kept slaves and participated in the slave trade by pointing out specific Bible verses in favor of slavery.

    We see you….we know who you are…..and you do not belong is a more tolerant world.

  • Gehennah

    Fortunately Yahweh has no say in the US law, nor is there any reason to think that this would bring Yahweh’s judgement.

  • Lisa Hawks

    what happened to separate church and state….

  • David Fisher

    Hi. I’m probably closest to an agnostic in my religious beliefs; on Gay Marriage, I believe that romantic love shared between two people of the same gender is equally deserving of being legally enshrined as that between two of different genders.

    I just wanted to say that this may be the most respectful, life-affirming comments section I’ve ever seen on the internet (not a high bar, but still). It’s very gratifying to see people who disagree strongly on issues they see as of paramount importance exchanging views without devolving into a crossfire of recrimination.

  • liberalcrusader

    Please what a load of crap, these attorney’s are! trying to scare and incite violence against the LGBT community! so all these divorces must be okay with the sky wizard!

  • Disqusdmnj

    So if SCOTUS rules in favor of SSM, why?

    Did not enough people pray? Did they not pray hard enough? What about those who fasted? Did Satan win out anyway, against an all-powerful God?

    Or, is this just God fulfilling his own wishes for equality?

    Just curious how the cognitive dissonance is being prepared… ; )

  • Lorie Ann Wise

    hi. do you people know how ridiculously stupid you sound? there is NO SUCH THING AS a “Rapture”. to believe so means you’re more than likely delusional and that requires Psychiatric help. It makes about as much sense as people being able to literally talk to trees. I pray for YOUR dumb asses. #TrueChristians LOVE everyone. PERIOD. The “Christians” that spew hatred are, in fact the embodiment of Satan. Evil..pure Evil. through and through. that is all.

  • LeftCoast

    Let’s just face the truth Saints, the courts will side with sin.

  • Rob T

    Are they TRYING to make the anti-gay side sound as crazy as possible? Not to mention the fact that the Constitution forbids the government from imposing religious beliefs on citizens through force of law. Why do these people hate the Constitution?

  • Lorie Ann Wise

    Um, hello…..life goes on. We’ve had no fire and brimstone and more than half of America approves of same sex marriage. This is exactly why religion doesn’t belong in politics. At. All. Right wingers are nuts! Delusional sick people. People that actually believe in the bibles hogwash is a bit whack.

  • Kate_Renee

    Approximately how many people are born gay each year in America? Just wondering.

  • Rex Deaver

    Rant on, loser.

  • Christopher Morris

    Might I ask also has any who advocate this reading ever eaten a ham on Easter or shellfish. Where are their slaves also why are they limiting it to just one wife when the Bible shows they are allowed many more that is Biblical Marriage Polygamy is endorsed throughout the texts. If you wish to look to the Bible for your laws better make sure you follow them all or we will start bringing the Stones.

  • Brian Johnson

    @ LadyFreeBird- I am gay and a Christian, so is my partner. I know you don’t understand or agree with the love that we share with each other as a couple, but we believe that God does. I am glad to see that, though you may disagree with us, you are willing to not bash us. It is good to finally see someone, “Love thy neighbor as thy self.” I make you this promise: If you will stand in the gap and pray for me and my family, I will stand in the gap and pray for you and yours. Have a blessed day.

  • thaddeus

    of all the abominations that occur in this country, someone is worried about two people who love each getting married bringing god’s judgement on this nation. i think we sure worry about the abominations. there seem to be a multitude of them. i truly believe same sex marriage is not an abomination. i consider murder, mistreating the poor, the drug crisis, rape, sexual abuse, domestic violence, etc. abominations. i should list smart people acting stupid as well. No one ever wants to be LGBT. you learn through a lot of pain to accept it.

  • Berttalk

    Attorneys? really, Huh. So we are relying on a bunch of rich attorneys to speak for us about the will of God.

    Did not Jesus say “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”

    So how is marriage worse then divorce?

    Was it not Jesus who said “I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

    “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? [42] How can you say to your brother, `Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

    Where in the bible does it say you will be judged by the actions of others. It is clear in all the teaching of Jesus that he speaks of the individual behavior of his followers. Were does he say. ‘Do not sleep in a town that is evil for that will make you evil.’ His message goes something more like this:

    “And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.” So fear not for the soul of your nation. Follow what the teaching of Jesus are to your own actions.
    As even in Sodom and Gomorrah was not the one good man ‘Lot’ saved and did not God promise to Abraham if even 10 righteous men were found the City would not be destroyed”

    ‘In response, Abraham inquired of the LORD if he would spare the city if 50 righteous people were found in it, to which the LORD agreed he would not destroy it for the sake of the righteous yet dwelling therein. Abraham then inquired of God for mercy at lower numbers (first 45, then 40, then 30, then 20, and finally at 10), with the LORD agreeing each time.’
    So given this do we really think allowing Gays to have the ability to be Married will bring down Gods wrath. Would it not be more likely the Sins of using the Idol of Jesus to worship Money before god as the reason for our destruction.

  • canidtarega

    Well dear is time for us Christians to open our mouth, but pray first all united, all of us, in USA, and in the world, then GO to court GET SOME EXCELLENT CHRISTIAN LAWYERS AND SUE THOSE DEMONS OF HATE OF SATAN!!!! united by the millions, to demand our rights too. THE WORD OF OUR GOD AND JESUS THE BIBLE WILL NOT BE BLASPHEMY,. AND OUR BROTHERS , SISTERS THE CHRISTIANS, NO MORE IN COURTS TAKING THEIR MONEY BY HOMOSEXUALS, AND OTHERS WHO HATE US WHO ARE NOT OF GOD AND JESUS, BECAUSE THE CHRISTIANS REFUSE COMPROMISE WITH SIN OF HOMOSEXUALITY, WHICH IS ABOMINATION TO OUR GOD .

  • David Graham

    I’ll bet the idiot’s submitting these briefs had Their hair cut, Wore 2 kinds of cloth, eat shellfish and work (of some sort) on Sundays. If You say Hypocrite real slow its sounds alot like Religious….

  • David Graham

    You religious people are the Biggest Bigots and Hypocrites on the face of this Planet and seriously the biggest bane. You won’t discuss Your religion (except on Your terms), You won’t answer the hard questions, You don’t even follow Your own damn rules (and play it off as “We all struggle”). Seriously If God “speaks” to You, You may have a mental illness.

  • DHenson

    I hope the court brushes this ridiculous claim aside. These are lawyers interpreting the Hebrew Bible as if they were scholars. That would be like me being a lawyer in a Supreme Court Case. No real Bible scholars were mentioned and most if not all of the texts referenced were taken out of their context to serve the needs of this small group. The motivation of this article is fear, something used to intimidate and has no place in the judicial system.

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  • Brian Sonntag

    The attorneys should re read the constitution. It’s a clear violation of the first amendment. Funny how people love freedom of religion but ignore the part about how the government cannot establish or promote one religion. I fully support churches freedom to discriminate like they have for centuries, but on the federal and state governments have the job of being objective and impartial to everyone. If you believe that the government should stay out of marriage then stop federal and state marriage benifits. If you want to keep them they have to be available to all.

  • LiberdadeDeExpressao

    “government issuance of a state marriage license could bring god’s judgment on the nation”…ha ha ha ha ha…please stop, i’m laughing so hard it literally hurts!

  • Jerry Krause

    I agree with Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee’s prediction that Christians will push back against gay marriage in a similar way to Dr. Martin Luther King’s fight against racial discrimination. “They either are going to follow God, their conscience and what they truly believe is what the scripture teaches them, or they will follow civil law,” Huckabee said. “They will go the path of Dr. Martin Luther King, who in his brilliant essay the letters from a Birmingham jail reminded us, based on what St. Augustine said, that an unjust law is no law at all. And I do think that we’re going to see a lot of pastors who will have to make this tough decision,” he continued.

  • Jerry Krause

    Thomas joined Justices Roberts, Scalia, and Alito in his dissent to the U.S. Supreme Court’s Gay-Marriage decision, but it was Clarence’s opinion that struck the most offensive tone: “The corollary of that principle is that human dignity cannot be taken away by the government. Slaves did not lose their dignity (any more than they lost their humanity) because government allowed them to be enslaved. Those held in internment camps did not lose their dignity because government confined them. And those denied governmental benefits certainly do not lose their dignity because the government denies those benefits. The government cannot bestow dignity, and it cannot take it away.”

  • Jerry Krause

    My radical view on the U.S. Supreme Court’s passing of gay marriage nationwide is this: The smell of feces in the air shared between two men is not the sort of fragrance that can spark an offspring; motherly instincts that only a woman can behold, and fatherly instincts that only a man can behold. Two separate thoughts. The first a trespass on nature’s design; the latter designed to nourish life. I think it is not what is written on paper but having all the right ingredients that defines the true meaning of marriage.

  • http://JohnAllman.UK John Allman

    An anagram of “Obergefell versus Hodges” is “U.S. begs God for severe hell”.