GoFundMe Shuts Down Fundraiser for Christian Bakers, Claims Money Was for ‘Illegal Purpose’

KleinGRESHAM, Ore. — The popular fundraising site GoFundMe shut down a fundraiser Friday night for a Christian couple that was ordered to pay $135,000 in “emotional damages” to two lesbians, stating that the fundraising effort was for “illegal purposes” because the bakery had been found guilty of “discrimination” for declining to make a cake for their ceremony due to their religious convictions.

According to reports, a competitor of Sweet Cakes by Melissa, run by Aaron and Melissa Klein, contacted GoFundMe in seeking to stop the fundraiser, which had raised over $100,000 within a day before being shut down hours later.

Watson“This business has been found guilty of discrimination and is being allowed to fund raise to pay their penalty,” Lisa Watson of Cupcake Jones, a homosexual advocate, wrote on her Facebook page. “The GoFundMe terms of service address hate speech, bigotry, criminal activity and sexism among other things in their campaign … The amount of money they have raised in a matter of a few hours by thousands of anonymous cowards is disgusting.”

Within an hour of her complaint, the fundraiser was removed, and Jones posted a screenshot Friday night of the “campaign not found” message where the crowdfunding effort had been to rejoice that the page had been taken down. According to her Facebook page, she made the photo her profile picture, but later replaced it with an award that her business received for their homosexual advocacy.

GoFundMe released an explanation for removing the page, stating that the fundraising site doesn’t allow crowdfunding campaigns for those who have been found guilty of violating laws.

“After careful review by our team, we have found the ‘Support Sweet Cakes By Melissa’ campaign to be in violation of our terms and conditions,” it wrote. “[T]he subjects of the ‘Support Sweet Cakes By Melissa’ campaign have been formally charged by local authorities and found to be in violation of Oregon state law concerning discriminatory acts. Accordingly, the campaign has been disabled.”

“The GoFundMe account that was set up to help our family was shut down by the administrators of GoFundMe because they claimed it was raising money for an illegal purpose,” Melissa Klein said that she had been told by the outlet. “We have told GoFundMe that the money is simply going to be used to help our family, and there is no legitimate breach of their terms and conditions.”

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Others state that a number of campaigns may be found on the site that seek to raise funds surrounding those fighting criminal convictions.

“So if your throat is already under the government boot, you’re [disqualified],” wrote Jay Richards for The Stream. “This is a form of cronyism—of collusion between a private business and the state to destroy that business’s competitors. … Note that Lisa Jones is motivated by disgust, not only at her competitor, but at those who stepped forward to help her competitor in a time of need.”

INCIDENT WITH THE KLEIN’S RETURNING CUSTOMERS

As previously reported, in January 2013, Aaron Klein was approached by a mother and her daughter as the two were interested in a cake for the daughter’s upcoming wedding—to her lesbian partner.

“My first question was what’s the wedding date,” Klein told television station KTW in Portland. “My next question was [the] bride and groom’s name. … The girl giggled a little bit and said, ‘It’s two brides.’”

He then informed the women that the bakery does not make cakes for homosexual events.

“I apologized for wasting their time and said that, unfortunately, we do not do same-sex marriages,” Klein explained.

The women left Sweet Cakes upset about the incident, and later, one of them filed a complaint with the state. The Oregon attorney general’s office soon launched an investigation against the Klein’s as the state’s non-discrimination laws prevent public accommodations from being denied to any individual on the basis of “race, color, religion, sex [or] sexual orientation.”

But Klein states that he regularly serves homosexuals. He believes that there is a difference between serving homosexuals in general and having to personally facilitate same-sex ceremonies, which is an act of participation.

“I have customers come in almost on a weekly basis that are homosexual,” he said. “They can buy my stuff. I sell stuff. I talk with them. That’s fine. … This was not the first time we’ve served these girls.”

“We were being asked to participate in something that we could not participate in,” Klein’s wife, Melissa, noted.

Some Christians believe that being a part of a same-sex event violates the biblical command in 1 Timothy 5:22 not to be “partakers in other men’s sins,” as well as the command in Ephesians 5:7, “Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”

EMOTIONAL DAMAGES SOUGHT BY THE WOMEN

In February, a judge with the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries ruled that the Christian bakers are guilty of discrimination for declining to make the cake, thus moving the matter into the sentencing phase. On Friday, Alan McCullough, an administrative judge with the bureau, recommended a fine of $135,000, with one of the women receiving $75,000 and the other $60,000. Prosecutors had sought damages of $75,000 each. McCullough clarified that “[t]he amounts are damages related to the harm suffered by the complainants, not fines or civil penalties which are punitive in nature.”

According to the Daily Signal, the two women, who have been identified as Rachel Cryer and Laurel Bowman, submitted individual lists of just under 100 aspects of suffering in order to receive the damages. They included “mental rape,” “distrust of men,” “distrust of former friends,” “discomfort,” “high blood pressure,” “impaired digestion,” “loss of appetite,” “migraine headaches,” “loss of pride,” “resumption of smoking habit,” “shock” “stunned,” “surprise,” “uncertainty,” “weight gain” and “worry.”

But the Kleins told the court that they too had suffered because of the attacks that they received over their desire to live out their Christian faith in the workplace. They stated that they endured “mafia tactics” as their car was vandalized and broken into on two occasions, their vendors were harassed by homosexual advocates resulting in some businesses breaking ties with them, and they received threatening emails wishing rape, death and Hell upon the family. As a result, they had to close their business and move it into their private home.

After Samaritan’s Purse, led by Franklin Graham, learned that the fundraiser for the Klein’s had been removed by GoFundMe, they set up their own fundraising page for the couple.

“They have taken a stand for the word of God, and they should not have to stand alone,” Graham said. “I believe that Christians across our nation will rally around Aaron and Melissa and their five children.”

“Please pray for Aaron and Melissa, and pray for our nation,” he continued. “When our judges are punishing Christians for practicing what they believe, that’s persecution, plain and simple.”

GoFundMe says that the Kleins will still receive the funds that were raised before the page was disabled.

Editor’s Note: Those wishing to donate to the Kleins, may click here for the fundraising page set up by Samaritan’s Purse.


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  • Kachina

    Unbelievable! What about Religious Rights and Freedom over the Rights of Two lesbians that lied to get money they did not deserve? This lawsuit should have been dismissed…

    • MC

      There is no Christian rights in Obama’s America.

      • Nisse

        True, he’ll stop our God given rights to treat God’s little limp wristed mistakes the way God wants us to. No cake!

      • PoliticallyJadedNow

        There are no rights in christianity. Remember we are told to die to self. That’s something that is lacking with evangelicals in the US today.

        It is ironic how this business person refused a paying customer and in the process broke the law. Maybe there is a big lesson here, just bake the cake and be Christ to your customers.

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          They broke Mans Law . Not God’s Law. We as Christians are to obey God mot Man.Gad did not tell us obey sinful man. If that is the way we are to be than taking the mark would be okay. As it will become mans law.But the Bible says not to take the mark.

          • uzza

            How can you claim to be a US citizen when you refuse to obey the laws of the US?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            (((((((((I am not.))))))))) I am a citizen of God First. By birth I am a citizen of this Country. But by spirit I am a Citizen of God. I guess I can claim both. But I follow the truth of God . Not Mans sinful laws .

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            Then when you break the laws be prepared to pay the penalty. That’s how laws work. You could biblically justify slavery but legally would go to jail for kidnapping.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            At least it is not eternal. I never had a slave. I never will. I have never kidnapped anyone. I never will. I do not bake. I don’ like cooking. I don’t sell flowers. There is nothing I want to steal. I never killed anyone and I pray I never will. I would refuse to take the mark. I would death. <

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            I’m so glad you are so perfect of a christian. You just don’t get it. You are a black and white thinker. In the meantime, people like you cause great harm to others who don’t believe the same way. b

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            I am a Bible thinker.You just don’t get it. The Bible show no one is perfect but Christ. I choose to believe in God’s word. Not your word and not mans word.

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            The bible isn’t inerrant or infallible. It’s also not the constitution. You are conflating the two and that is dangerous. You are free to believe all you want, it is just that you can’t force your interpretation onto others if you operate a business open to the public.

            That is the issue of this topic.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            I do not have a business so I guess I don’t have to worry. Do I??? People are allowed to have an opinion other than yours?Or has that become Illegal in your eyes?? You have been forcing your opinion on me. Oh I see it is okay for you but not me. hmm………………………….

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            No I’m simply making the point that you are free to believe what you like as long as you don’t infringe on anyone else’s freedoms. It’s not you so much as the Religious Right with political motivations to force all to live under their narrow rules regardless of their own personal religious or non religious beliefs.

          • Jeeler

            Jesus, what an idiot. “…Mans [sic] sinful laws”? Do you mean those like “thou ought not to litter,” or “hey, don’t discriminate”?

            Yeah, I know, it’s so damn tough being an imaginary citizen of a non-existent Sky Fiend whilst living in Florida. Good luck with that.

          • TheRoo

            You do understand your god condones rape and slavery.

          • Nicholas Moore

            You can’t be a citizen of god unless you prove god exists. Haven’t done that? Well looks like you’re all outta luck. Maybe one day you’ll wake up out of your fantasy, but I doubt it.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            You are not worth my time .

          • Nicholas Moore

            You are not worth anyone’s time.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            I left part of it out . I clicked to early. Not worth mi time to fight with. No matter what I say you will just be mean to me. Enjoy your abuse of the Christians . One day our God will stop the Abuse. I am a citizen of God. You can’t change that with your hatred or your abuse. I don’t have to prove to you that God exist. He left Evidence for you to see ! One day you will see that the Christians were not the enemy you thought they were. You will see that God Loved you enough to put people in your path to try to help you . You chose to Reject..I hope God will help to have a change of heart before you take your last breath. <

            :-

          • Nicholas Moore

            You literally cannot claim abuse. You are part of a religion that abuses people all the time. It is a core part of your holy book. The bible is abusive to gays, women, atheists and more. You also cannot claim hatred, as that is also a core part of your holy book. You are attempting to spew hatred in the comments section and I am picking on you for it. Don’t like it? Then stop spewing hatred yourself (telling gay people that they are sinners is a form of hatred).

            No he didn’t leave evidence. There is none to see. You saying there is doesn’t make it so. If there really was evidence you would have pointed it out by now.

            I agree with one point you’ve made, christians aren’t the enemy. Bigoted religious nuts like you are the enemy. Those who try to decrease the happiness of others, try to increase the suffering of others, over something that has absolutely nothing to do with them. There are plenty of christians who aren’t like you. There are plenty of christians who are supportive of homosexuals and gay marriage. Those christians aren’t the enemy. YOU are the enemy.

            I didn’t choose to reject anything. I can’t reject something I don’t believe in. I never believed in a god to begin with. There was no god speaking to me and me saying no. I’ve been an atheist my entire life. I am an atheist because there is no evidence that there is a god. If proper evidence were provided to me about gods existence, I would change my mind and believe in god. That’s all it takes. Is that too much to ask? Can you not provide just one bit of evidence?

          • misterprecedent

            Romans 13:1-2 “Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.”

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Life in this world is so short. Eternal Life with God never ends. 70,80,90 years is not long.

          • mark

            AAA yes, she’s a “citizen of God.” Meanwhile I’m sure she and her hubby are on the front lines fighting them illegals from destroyin ‘murica.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Fighting Illegals???????????
            murica?????????????????
            Wow. Did your leader change the name of America?????????????

          • mark

            That clearly went over your head, you from the south?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Florida is south I guess.

          • ice

            I wonder if we are not talking about the interpretation of law? The fact that they don’t do certain things should be acceptable Most places have more than one bakery or florist or photographer

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            This is not a theocracy. We are supposed to abide by the laws of the land. This is a wedge issue like abortion. It is used to keep you emotionally reacting so you don’t think about the other more damaging laws being passed.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Abortion is a man made law. Slavery was a man made law.I still will choose God’s law over man made law. This life right now is not eternal. They can kill my body but not my soul. I do not fear death. Death is not the end. I am not afraid of what man can do. I trust God with my Life. <

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            If you know the reason why it became an issue in the first place you would understand how evangelical leaders sold out the church for political power and financial gain. It’s why I’m no longer a fundamentalist evangelical. You are simply being manipulated.

          • andrew

            Abortion isn’t a law, it’s the concept of killing a child before birth. Slavery also isn’t a law, it’s the concept of owning another person like property. Your God condones slavery and rape and would send everyone who doesn’t believe in his childish fantasy to a fiery afterlife. Not a guy i would want to follow. If he wants us to be righteous beings he must first lead by example. Not doing a terribly good job so far.

          • misterprecedent

            God mandates abortions, too. There are instructions on how priests should perform them in the Bible.

          • andrew

            can you provide where? it’s not Numbers 5:11-31 is it?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            When you meet Him you can tell Him how you feel.

          • andrew

            if He is who everyone says He is, then He already knows. I’m not for the killing of babies, and i’m not for using abortion as contraception, but i am for the safety of to-be mothers who wish not to be. They’re going to do it anyways, i’d rather there be a safe route to do so. I actually don’t think i have anything to answer for, just the writers and manipulators of His book who knowingly twisted it to suit their vile viewpoints. I’m sure that’s a sin above any other, including murder, misinterpreting God’s word so that others after the author sin or perceive innocent actions as sin. All I’ve said is what God is perceived to be, which is all we can know. Anyone who claims to know God’s will and desires is full of shit.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            If that is how you feel.Your hate is very strong.Hate dose not come from God. Satan hates God and wants to destroy God’s Creation including Humanity. All I can do is Pray that God will Deliver you from your Hate and lead you to Salvation.<

          • andrew

            Hate who exactly? If by satan you mean lucifer then you are incorrect. Lucifer loves God but he was cast out because he did not want to bow down to us as His creations. Lucifer does however recognize our “sinful nature” and our humanity, whilst God requires perfection from beings he knows are not and thus holds unfulfillable standards, taunting us with eternal bliss if we somehow are able to reach the standards. Know your religion before you try to preach it and “save” others who don’t need saving.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Lucifer Rebelled against God because he wanted what God has. And day you will learn the truth. I have added you to my list of people who I stand in the Gap for.If it is God’s Will for you to be Delivered and to be saved you will be.
            May the Holy Spirit of God Open your eyes,ears,understanding and your heart . So you will be able to see,hear,understand and receive God’s truth while you still have breath.
            < God ((LOVES)) you and He sent His for you.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            If it is God’s Will for you to be Delivered and His Will for you to be saved through Salvation, may His Will for you be done as it is done in Heaven. In the Name of Yeshua . *Jesus*
            Amen . <

          • andrew

            I don’t need saving. I want equality for everyone and no one is going to some fiery afterlife because of how they were born. Any religion where that is the case isn’t a good one.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Yes you do. Satan has deceived many into believing lies. Satan caused other angels to follow hin. In the spirit world it is much differant than what we have.May the Holy Spirit Open your eyes,ears,understanding and your heart. May He let you see the true spirit behind everything you believe.May God reveal to you the truth. May God plant a seed of truth deep into your heart. May it take root and grow. If you die in you unbeief you will face God. You will have regret in your heart. You will also see that Satan not only hated God, but he hated God’s creation . Including humanity. He will not be kind to the ones who rebelled through his lies. He hates ALL Humanity. Even the ones who Reject God. May God put a seed of Repentance in your heart. May God Protect you,Deliver you and save you. <

          • andrew

            I’d rather not be “saved” by an insecure sadist with a superiority complex. If i face God and I’ve done all i could to be respectful, kind, and helpful, making this world just a little better place, then I think i should go proudly through the Pearly Gates. If i am condemned to hell for making others lives at least more tolerable, then i wouldn’t want to be trapped in eternal bliss with that being. Satan/Lucifer loved God with all his heart, and it was because of that love that he did not bow down to humans as God demanded because he would bow only to God and thus was cast out from heaven. He may not like humanity, but he recognizes it’s nature, Humanities souls filled with desires and needs, and he wishes to fulfill that. We go to hell because God doesn’t like humans having any desire whatsoever. Those grey drab movies shown about communism where people are without spirit are what God wants. Who’s to say those under Satans influence haven’t rewritten His book and now we follow Satan’s laws which doom us to almost eternal religious war? Condemning slavery, rape, stoning to death for petty social crimes, come on. Does that not sound like Satan’s work more than a God who claims to love the beings He made?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            If God did not Love Humanity , He would never have given Humanity away out. He loves Humanity enough to give us away out through His Son. Yeshua. And He Loves Humanity enough not to violate His gift of Freewill to us. Satan has a great job at destroying Humanity through lies and half truths. I will Pray for you and also Stand in the Gap for you. Shalom <

          • andrew

            You say “gift of freewill” like people actually have such a thing from a guy who has omniscience and omnipresence and the power to decide the rest of eternal afterlife… We’re absolved of sin through Jesus anyways, so what’s to worry about?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            You are so funny you make me laugh. Shalom <

          • andrew

            you’re welcome, despite knowing the hint of sarcasm and insult.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            I know you were insulting me wanting to hurt me. Your kind love to hurt people . But God gave me peace.

          • andrew

            Trying to challenge your beliefs is insulting you? There are worse things than I that test your faith, might want to learn to grow a thicker skin.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            It don’t matter what you think about my Faith. It is mine . As a Grandma i have more Faith than you can ever understand. You lack faith that is fine for you. But not for me. Shalom <

          • andrew

            and my beliefs are mine. only difference is, your religion is trying to make yours law and preside over mine. VERY key difference.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Yup they are . It is you using your God given Free Will to choose.
            Shalom

          • andrew

            so you claim, but making your religion law of the land no longer allows me to choose.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Good news for you that will not happen. Right now we a great falling away happening in the Church. If you think We the True Bible Believing Christians are so bad . Wait for the next world religion to take over……
            Shalom <

          • andrew

            i don’t find it that far out depending on the next president. far too many people say “fuck freedom of religion, just make Christianity the state religion”

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            It will sadly never happen. Your will have your wish. Christians will die off . And be killed off. You are the others will be so happy to see us die. You will most likely rejoice and be happy. Look at how my Brothers and Sisters in Yeshua are being killed already. That kind of killing will come to America. Us Christians will no longer be your problem. What you will receive will be far worse . Shalom <

          • andrew

            uh-huh…. Eventually it will have two options, to die off, or to evolve into something else. In dying off, it won’t necessarily be because those who practice it are killed off, but because it has reached a point of such illogicality that better options are preferred. I do actually dislike seeing and hearing that people are being killed because they chose to hold faith in the same god, just under a different name and under different rules. I know the value religion has on people’s spirits and in providing answers to questions science can’t yet answer and the same questions that are the seat of people’s deepest fears. Seeking answers from someone you believe to have those answers when no human can know, i respect that, despite not believing much in it myself. What gets me agitated and wanting to fight against it is something I’ve expressed to you and others many times: wanting your beliefs ruling over others, despite your answer set being only one of many, many options. That and claiming you’re so persecuted, when really you’re the most populated religion in the world, leading by 8.3% ahead of Muslims (a difference of 589mil people), and you’re still growing! anyways, I’m skeptical of the opinion that Christian slaying will arrive in the US. there are far too many for Christian-killing to ever be condoned, in my opinion.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            We will not evolve. You will not evolve. When you face God you will see I was not wrong . Keep you eyes open even though you are spiritually blind. If you live long enough. Keep your eye on Israel,Russia,Iran and other Islamic Nations. Israel is going to be attacked by these Nations. America will not help nor defend Israel. But Israel will win that war without the help the Nations. God will destroy most of that army , and save Israel.
            Also just so you know America is on her death bed. America as we know it we be over. America is on her way to destruction. Watch and see what happen in America. America as a Super Power is OVER. If you live through it you will see things that will make 911 child’s play.

          • andrew

            and why won’t we? Israel has been attacked by some of those nations for 2 thousand years. America has not been there to help them for 1930 of them. Despite their holy texts, it seems Russia and Japan have more favor with the gods than God’s favored people… America’s declining, sure, but not unrecoverable. America as people knew it 100+ years ago is over, but it doesn’t mean it’s not still here. And i believe the nukes at Japan made 9/11 look like child’s play…

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            America is declining to the point of no return. Just watch every thing . We will become an Islamic controlled Nation.

          • andrew

            meh, same god different rules. Honestly Christianity is less obvious about it’s deaths. Christianity is more psychological whereas Islam is more physical.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            A lot to worry about You can’t have Yeshua without God. With out God there would be no God there would be no Yeshoa. Without the Blood there can be no redemption. We had animal sacrifices to prepare us for the Blood of Christ. To receive Yeshua we must Repent. Shalom. <

          • andrew

            and around we go in circles. do you not get dizzy of your logic?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            No I don’t. Did you know without the Son of God we’d have no sun? Without both the Son and sun We’d have no light nor would we have life.
            Shalom <

          • andrew

            Right… Without one human we’d lose our star? Not how the universe works

          • misterprecedent

            God gives instructions on how priests should perform abortions on unwanted pregnancies. Read the entire Bible and see.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            You are a huge Evil liar . When you face God you can tell Him about your lie. I have read the Complete Bible. Good bye Mr EVIL!!!

          • Nicholas Moore

            Shows just how little you know your bible. Slavery is specifically condoned in the bible, and the bible was used as justification for slavery. Your book is full of vile things.

          • glebealyth

            Broke man’s law, you say.

            You might want to crack open that thar bible now and then…

            Romans 13:1-7 ESV

            Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. …

          • glebealyth

            Broke man’s law, you say.

            You might want to crack open that thar bible now and then…

            Romans 13:1-7 ESV

            Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. …

          • Nicholas Moore

            The bible is full of shit. All you want is the ability to treat other people unfairly because you find them icky. You are a disgusting individual and you are the type of person that makes christians look bad.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Not the Bible . But you are full of it. I do not cuss like you. I find you above and beyond ((((((((ICKY))))))))))

          • Nicholas Moore

            I just call it as it is. The bible is pure fiction. The claims presented in the bible have been disproven over and over and over again. You want the ability to discriminate and deny equal rights based on outdated religious doctrine that not everyone follows, therefore you are disgusting.

            Don’t like it? Then stop acting disgusting and read something other than the bible.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            God has Proved Himself to exist when He left His Evidence for you to see. Not only will I Pray for you . I will also Stand in the Gap for you as well. I have to go to work.

          • Nicholas Moore

            Nice try, but if god had proved himself, there would be no atheists. You keep talking about there being evidence for god, but you never provide any. Either put up or shut up. If you think there is evidence for god, either provide it, or don’t say anything at all.

        • Valerie James

          Are you a Christian Politically Jaded Now?

          • Michael Hampton

            Why does that matter? He is an American citizen. And as such, he has the same rights you do.

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            Yes I am. I’m just not a fundamentalist any longer. Jesus ate with the sinners, took care of the needy, didn’t whine about his rights to the point of laying down his own life. So I don’t think he would care much if a baker baked a cake for a same sex couple. How many cakes are made for bachelorette parties, for gluttons, for divorcees getting remarried and for gluttons?

          • Michael Hampton

            I would love to see a case where a baker denies baking a cake for a fat guy because of their “Christian” values. Gluttony is a sin. Every cake that you have baked for a fat person where you knew that fat person was going to go home and eat that whole cake, you have actively participated in someones sin.

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            Talk about some wailing and gnashing of teeth. lol

          • MC

            I have yet to evidence that he is.

        • ice

          That is a plausible solution except most of the accounts of Christian businesses refusing same sex marriage gigs say hat their artistic skills are required at the weddings they object to. ne baker I recall was going to make the cake and let the couple decorate it–that wasn’t good enough.

          • uzza

            If they offer their artistic skills for sale to the public then they can’t legally refuse to sell their artistic skills to the public. It’s pretty simple.

          • Michael Hampton

            Would that be good enough for you? If you went to a place that bakes wedding cakes, and they said to you, “We will give you the cakes and the icing, but you have to put it together yourself.” Would you be OK with paying for that?

        • MC

          No, we Christians follow God’s moral law, not mans law. Your argument fails.

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            No you don’t follow God’s moral law. You think you do but you have no love in your hearts. You beat people over the head with your bibles when they don’t follow all of the man made rules you think they should.

          • MC

            Yes I do, you don’t. You have no idea what God’s unchanging moral law is. You’re just another village atheist troll. You know nothing of scripture, nothing. You couldn’t exegete your way out of a wet paper bag. You’re an apostate who now belongs to his father the devil. You’re so obtuse you would tell Jesus that he’s not acting like Jesus when he threw the money changers out with a whip and told the pharisees they were white washed tombs full of dead men’s bones. Complain and cry all you want, the truth hurts.

          • MC

            Yes I do, you don’t. You have no idea what God’s unchanging moral law is. You’re just another village atheist troll. You know nothing of scripture, nothing. You couldn’t exegete your way out of a wet paper bag. You’re an apostate who now belongs to his father the devil. You’re so obtuse you would tell Jesus that he’s not acting like Jesus when he threw the money changers out with a whip and told the pharisees they were white washed tombs full of dead men’s bones, and “Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness”. Complain and cry all you want, the truth hurts.

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            I’m not an atheist. I have been a christian since I was a kid. I am just no longer a religious right, conservative evangelical.

            Jesus would throw out the teavangelical shysters today. They abuse their congregations to enrich themselves and force their narrow interpretation of the bible on everyone through the political process. Look at what scripture you just typed.

          • MC

            I know exactly what Scripture I typed, that’s you, full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. All you do is support perpetual sin, there is no repentance of sins in your belief system, you’re ignorant of God’s word. You just tune out all the things you don’t like in the Bible and invented your own god. I bet you love those televangelists, they also believe and preach a sugar coated feel good gospel that Jesus and the apostles NEVER preached. You’re still a fundy for your father the devil.

          • Homer for God

            Wrong…we simply present the word. If those get offended by it it is on them not us. True Christians has always been taught that. When you think we are bashing those who don’t believe is doing the same thing by assuming all Christians are like that. Truth is no matter what group you belong to (Christians, atheists, Muslims, LGBT), there will always be extremists and those ignorant if what they are saying and will make life difficult for others. True Christians who choose not to fight, are always the target of hate from those who are offended by their teachings and beliefs. The fact is if you don’t believe then leave us alone as we do to your belief. I as a Christian that follows the Bible as best as I can only pray for those who hate and do not understand. I will not attack you because you are not a believer.
            Last thing, to a comment made earlier about what the current world will be like at the end, I believe that it will be a lot worse then it is now because that is what the word predicted. I for one already see the signs coming to pass. I can only and will pray for those who don’t have the word of God in their heart and has a personal relationship with God (which is ALL he ever wanted to begin with), but it is not my place (or any true Christians place) to judge others if they choose to not believe.

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            You assume I don’t believe. I do believe, I just don’t believe in the American Fundamentalist Religious Right cult. I’ve been doing some research on the history of the movement and let me tell you corporate america hijacked the conservative evangelicals after the labor laws and FDR’s New Deal was passed. I don’t care what others believe except when they abuse the legislative process to enforce their beliefs on others through the law. There is a reason why there are anti-discrimination laws on the books. Christians used to use the bible to discriminate against the various minority groups.

            When you finally start reading something else besides the Bible only for history, science, faith, and philosophy you might get it. But the hurdle you will have to overcome is the brainwashing that any information from those outside sources is wrong. Been there and done that.

          • andrew

            We’d leave Christians alone, except they keep trying to impose their misguided morality on others as man’s law.

          • andrew

            They follow “moral laws” set by multiple translators over 2 millennia that have most likely changed and warped things to their own desires.

          • Hope

            Well, but the Christian god is a violent psychopath, so the more of a jerk they are, the closer they really are to following his moral law. It’s just a very bad one.

      • Jeeler

        And near-illiteracy amongst you christers, evidently.
        Go on, tell me: what rights have you sheep actually lost? What rights have been constrained amongst your community?

        Oh sorry! You just can’t be a complete bigot in public anymore! Aw, does that weawy, weawy, hurt you? Too effin’ bad.

      • andrew

        but there are Christian entitlements, right? What Christian rights are you referring to? the right to discriminate against others and make others lives difficult? hmm very Christ like.

        • MC

          It’s a good thing they didn’t discriminate against gay people, they served gay people all day every day. They were forced to supply a service for which they don’t supply.

          • andrew

            yes?

        • MC

          It a good thing they didn’t discriminate against gay people, they served gay people every day all day. They just don’t provide a certain service. You can’t force a business to provide a service that they don’t provide for. And yes, we are ENTITLED to practice our Faith anywhere without persecution or interference from the government as stated in the constitution.

          • andrew

            if you’re a public company, then you serve the public. if there’s a law against something, you must have a very damn good reason why you went against the law to get away with it. They did not. Misinterpretation of a 2k year old book (whose only relatively valid clause about homosexuality is in the Old Testament, which was fulfilled with the late JC’s arrival and thus is null and void) is NOT a very damn good reason.

          • MC

            Show me a law that says a business must provide a service that they don’t normally provide to anyone? And you couldn’t exegete Scripture out of a wet paper bag. Homosexuality is condemned in the NT also, it goes against God’s Moral law. God’s Moral Law is never null and void, unless you think it’s ok to murder someone, which is also against God’s Moral Law. Please, stop trying to explain the Bible to someone who studied it for 34 years, including academically, you’re embarrassing yourself and you don’t have critical thinking skills to back up your assertions. You may go now.

          • andrew

            It wasn’t gods law, it was a covenant that was fulfilled by Jesus’ arrival. Having studied the bible for 34 years, you should know that, or did you study at a theological college and they were the ones who taught you critical thinking? (I can dish out the insults and dismissals too.) “In the New Testament (NT) there are at least three passages that may refer to homosexual activity: Romans 1:26–27, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, and 1 Timothy 1:9–10. A fourth passage, Jude 1:7, is often interpreted as referring to homosexuality. None of the four gospels mentions the subject directly, and there is nothing about homosexuality in the Book of Acts, in Hebrews, in Revelation, or in the letters attributed to James, Peter, and John. Jesus may be restricting marriage to opposite-sex couples when he cites Genesis during a discussion of marriage (Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9).”

          • MC

            Um, I’m talking about God’s Moral Law, which is unchanging, not the cerimonial or civil laws. The reason God’s Moal Law is unchanging is because it reveals God’s nature and God’s will. One good example of God’s Moral Law is the Ten Commandments. The reason you think that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality directly is because it was already known to the Jews as being against God’s Moral Law, it was already known as an abomination. Why would Jesus have to beat a dead horse? When Jesus said marriage is between a man and a woman it was already known anything else was against God’s Moral Law.

          • andrew

            can you provide quotes from the bible and the version of the bible you’re getting this from? a victim and their rapist forced to marry was legit under God’s “moral law” too. Now you see why I’m hesitant to side with anyone believing strongly in God’s “moral laws.”

          • MC

            Do you really think God is ok with rape? Rape goes under sexual immorality, which is against God’s Moral Law. The passage you are referring to is,

            “If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days. (‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭22‬:‭28-29‬ NASB)

            And,

            “If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the dowry for virgins. (‭Exodus‬ ‭22‬:‭16-17‬ NASB)

            First of all, the virgin is under the authority of her father, if her father refuses to let him marry her, and how many fathers would let their daughter marry her rapist, then he is punished by paying a dowry of 50 shekels, which would be the fine, and he still doesn’t get to marry her. If her father makes him marry her then he can NEVER divorce her, even if she sleeps around with men. That’s his punishment, if she becomes a whore and is an embarrassment to him he still has to take care of her even if he never liked her or wanted to marry her in the first place. Now, there might be a reason why a father would let her marry the the guy, because in the harsh world of the ANE, a raped woman would be considered unmarriageable and she would have a hard time taking care of herself and would most likely have to sell herself into slavery. At least this way the father would know she would be cared for.
            Also, nowhere in the Bible is there any recording of a rape victim forced to marry her rapist.

            Now if a virgin who is engaged to be married gets raped then the man is to be put to death.

            “But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. (‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭22‬:‭25‬ NASB)

            So no, rape IS against God’s Moral Law.

          • andrew

            All i said was to provide verses, and you have, thank you 🙂

          • MC

            Well, I hope you understand the difference between God’s unchanging Moral law and the cerimonial and civil/judicial laws now.

          • andrew

            Ok, He has laws , and Christians can keep to them. Feel free not to host LGBTQ weddings in your church. Christians are MORE than free to practice religion and no one’s taking that away from you. What you’re being blocked from doing is imposing “God’s unchanging Moral laws” on the rest of us. Don’t let others be prevented from marrying. You don’t like Gay marriage? Don’t have one. You are free to have Christian symbols in your restaurant and not be punished, but do remember that if you are not a private business open to only select individuals, you serve everyone regardless of their personal identification as a public business.

          • MC

            So, those are your rules for religious people to follow? You say we can follow God’s Moral Law but just not between the hours of 9-5, you just want to force us to turn off our Faith like a water faucet? How about this, keep marriage the way it is and let gay people have civil ceremonies, with all financial benefits they were after. And Christian businesses can continue to serve gay people all day every day, as they have already been doing, so there was never any discrimination, but they don’t have to provide services for gay events, such as gay pride parades and gay civil ceremonies. See, now everyone is happy. You see, if you don’t want to follow God Moral Law then you don’t have to, no one is forcing you, but we have a right to follow our Faith anywhere at any time without interference or persecution from the government, as stated in the constitution. We’re just exercising our first amendment rights. If you want a cake for a gay event, go to a bakery that provides those services.

          • MC

            So, those are your rules for religious people to follow? You say we can follow God’s Moral Law but just not between the hours of 9-5, you just want to force us to turn off our Faith like a water faucet? How about this, keep marriage the way it is and let gay people have civil ceremonies, with all financial benefits they were after. And Christian businesses can continue to serve gay people all day every day, as they have already been doing, so there was never any discrimination, but they don’t have to provide services for gay events, such as gay pride parades and gay civil ceremonies. See, now everyone is happy. You see, if you don’t want to follow God Moral Law then you don’t have to, no one is forcing you, but we have a right to follow our Faith anywhere at any time without interference or persecution from the government, as stated in the constitution. We’re just exercising our first amendment rights. If you want a cake for a gay event, go to a bakery that provides those services. 

          • andrew

            no, not everyone is happy, because now you’re saying “this fountain is for straight people, and that one over there is for “others.”” Ring a 100~ year old bell at all? *cough*racial segregation*cough*
            Do you read my comments? There were no rules but to stay the hell out of government. Why are you against gays marrying? Are you forced by God to be homosexually married if it becomes law regardless of current marital status? No. Don’t give others the lesser option. VERY much doubt Jesus would’ve wanted THAT. I’ll be forced to follow God’s “moral” law if it becomes the law of the land like you want it to be, and then your and other like-minded Christian’s statement of “no one is forcing you” becomes null and voice because now you ARE forcing me.

            Right, you’re allowed to practice without persecution, but others are allowed to be free of persecution and that takes precedence over your religious freedom in that and only that respect.If that bakery is a public business, then it serves the public. If it only wants to serve to certain people, then it needs to be a private business. Here, i’ll give you a definition on public because 90% of the people commenting on this thread don’t seem to understand that laws were broken in this case:
            Public:

            adjective
            adjective: public
            1.
            of or concerning the people as a whole.
            1b. open to or shared by all the people of an area or country.
            2. done, perceived, or existing in open view.

            noun
            noun: public; noun: the public
            1.
            ordinary people in general; the community.

          • MC

            Your argument is fallacious, not at any time did the bakers prohibit gay people from shopping in their store, not at any time did the bakers prohibit gay people from buying their products. They just don’t provide services for gay events to straights OR gays. A straight person can’t get a cake for a gay event any more than a gay person can, across the board. You keep making the fallacious argument that Christians don’t want gay people in their store, and for that you’re being intellectually dishonest, because nothing could be further from the truth. In other words, you’re lying.

            “Right, you’re allowed to practice without persecution, but others are allowed to be free of persecution and that takes precedence over your religious freedom.”

            So, do you see the hypocrisy in your argument yet? You want to persecute Christians so you won’t feel persecuted, or what it really comes down to, you don’t want your feelings hurt. If you don’t want your feelings hurt then don’t try and force a business to provide you a service that they don’t provide to anyone. The truth is, it’s an unjust law, just like slavery and just like when women couldn’t vote. The unjust law will eventually turn in favor of religious people. And no, Jesus wouldn’t want to give the option to be in perpetual sin, to anyone. Jesus NEVER preached tolerance of sin, he preached repentance of sin.

        • http://3edgesword.blogspot.com/ Feynman and Coutler’s Love Chi

          What about the very secular right of freedom of association?

          • andrew

            what about it?

          • http://3edgesword.blogspot.com/ Feynman and Coutler’s Love Chi

            Doesn’t it also apply to Christian bakers?

          • andrew

            freedom of association definition:

            The right to form societies, clubs, and other groups of people, and to meet with people individually, without interference by the government.

            Where in freedom of association does it say formed group is free to reject others based on others personal identification?

          • http://3edgesword.blogspot.com/ Feynman and Coutler’s Love Chi

            It’s right there in the “without interference by the government.” How on earth do you think forcing groups to accept others by government fiat is compatible with “without interference by the government”?

          • andrew

            Because if they aren’t forced a little bit, acceptance will never happen. Some things need a little push to happen.

          • http://3edgesword.blogspot.com/ Feynman and Coutler’s Love Chi

            Acceptance SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN.

          • andrew

            haa, sarcasm, gotcha.

      • Hope

        Nope, Christians have the same rights as everyone else. Christians don’t get special rights, and being prevented from being jerks to other people isn’t oppression.

    • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

      When ungodly rule and judge this is what happens.

      • Jeeler

        You know, quite a number of grown-up, civilized countries – not Murica – have had same-sex marriage for some time now.

        Guess what happened to easily-led, religious bigots like you in tjose countries (though they’re comparatively small in number)? Nothing. Nada. Zilch. All it did was allow same-sex couples the same right to wed as the rest of us. Didn’t affect traditional marriage in any way. I daresay that’s the same for states that allow for same-sex marriage.

        And, bonus, your imaginary Jeebus didn’t throw lightening bolts at those countries. Oh, I know: people like you think Jesus cares only for Murica (after all 9/11 was caused by queers, according to Jerry Falwell), but that’s yet another childish absurdity you cretins blithely throw out as if it were correct.

        Just because something offends your superstitious nonsense doesn’t ipso facto give you the right to deny others their freedoms. Your private right to faith is not in any way compromised.

      • Nicholas Moore

        I know, it’s great isn’t it?

        Making people comply with the law. Stopping people from discriminating. Giving people the same rights that you have.

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          Ungodly Me think like you. Enjoy your ungodly life. One day you will face God.

          • Nicholas Moore

            Unmeaty Me think like you. Enjoy your unmeaty life. One day you will face the Flying Spaghetti Monster

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Satan belongs to you not me. You enjoy him .I don’t

          • Nicholas Moore

            And while you’re on your hands and knees doing nothing, I will be on my feet thinking for the both of us.

    • Michael Hampton

      Um…it was pretty clear that the business discriminated. They even admitted it. That’s why they lost their case. And the couple didn’t try to “get money.” They tried to get a wedding cake like everybody else gets at that bakery.

      • andrew

        well, they did manipulate the whole thing and the sad part is they didnt’ need to, they would’ve most likely won the case but they looked bad doing it..

        • Michael Hampton

          The couple didn’t manipulate anything. They simply complained. And they did win their case. That’s the whole point of the fine. The bakers were found guilty of discrimination in a court of law. And the fine hasn’t been levied yet. That was just a recommendation for the amount. I think the people who “look bad” are the people giving money to the two businesses who broke the law. In 11 years of having marriage equality in this country, there are 3 cases of such laws being broken. Hardly the persecution being claimed.

          • andrew

            I meant that all their traumatic claims seem a tad dramatic and unnecesary when they had a good chance of winning the case

          • Michael Hampton

            Again, they did win. They won the case. The list that you are referring to was the damages caused so that a fine could be set. Their attorney made that list.

          • andrew

            Yes they won, but their claims seemed to me to be somewhat exaggerated and won the case with a slightly better viewpoint towards the community.

    • Michael Hampton

      The two women involved did not lie. And what money are they getting that they do not deserve? They have gotten nothing. The 135K fine suggestion has not been imposed. The proprietors of the business have gotten almost 200K for being found guilty of discrimination. Educate yourself on issues before you speak about them otherwise you might look foolish.

      • Kachina

        Michael, I am all too aware of this case and it is not about discrimination as much as it is about their own religious convictions. The Judge played God and more or less stepped all over the religious rights of this couple. These two lesbians found easy money and had their 5 minutes of fame. I have NO RESPECT for what they have done to this couple who worked hard for their business. NONE!

        • andrew

          “religious rights” ha. no, you’re free to have and practice religion so long as it doesn’t infringe on the rights of others.

        • Nicholas Moore

          And here we have an example of a bad person. He didn’t trample over anyone’s rights. You have every right to hold religious beliefs. What you don’t have the right to do is force your religious beliefs upon others. And by refusing to serve someone based on your religious beliefs, you are forcing your religious beliefs on others.

          Get out of here you sick man.

        • misterprecedent

          The Judge didn’t write the law. The bakers broke the law they agreed to follow when they applied for a business license. If the bakers provided cakes for the celebrations of any other sinners, then they are the liars. Had they simply sold a cake to paying customers, there would have been no other money involved. The bakers have nobody to blame but themselves. They should lose their business if they can’t obey the law.

    • UmustBKiddinMe

      Why should it have been dismissed? They broke the law.

    • Zasz

      Cite the law that sanctiones discrimination/hate speech.

      • Kachina

        Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
        prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of
        speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to
        assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

        • Zasz

          So christians have a right to discriminate and spread hate? And you see nothing wrong with that?

          • Kachina

            Zasz, it is not a matter or discrimination it is a matter of what Christians and Jews and even Muslims believe is the will of God according to their Holy Books. If you believe in God and The Bible, The Torah or even the Quran, then it is taught that God deems homosexuality as a sin. This country and Israel was built on the Foundations of God and his word regardless of what Politicians are trying to change. Our Faith in God has kept US from immortality up until now. It is said in the Bible,
            Evil in the Last Days2 Timothy 3:2
            1But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,…

            We Have Arrived… Discrimination is a feeling or an act against someone that is ‘different’ that causes harm. Will Gay Marriage cause harm to anyone? It just may condemn an entire Nation if the Supreme Court votes in their favor according to Holy Books. So, when the Supreme Court rules they will be ruling for or against the Bible as much as the issue of Gay Marriages. We live by God’s law or we live by Man’s law..?

  • MARINE73

    Aaron and Melissa, God will see you through this, keep your faith strong. Sinners can try their mightiest to hurt us, they hate us because we know the Truth about God and His Son, and they are afraid of that Truth. You did the right thing by standing firm on God’s law. Whenever we assign ourselves in any way to perverse sexual behavior, we are saying that it’s acceptable and we cannot go against God’s law! You are in the right and stand firm! Appeal this shameful ruling by an unjust court! You are in the RIGHT! Never give up on your convictions. After all, this life is fleeting, nothing but a moment in time. It is our eternal lives we will live in peace. We will have victory over ALL those who persecute us! God is with you, whom shall you fear?

    • Mary Jensen

      What the enemy intended to harm, God will turn it for good

    • UmustBKiddinMe

      “You did the right thing by standing firm on God’s law.”

      Which of God’s laws in the Bible says that two people of the same gender are not allowed to enter into civil marriage?

      • Just Sayin

        The first marriage He instituted was with the two people He created.He made them male and female and blessed them.He said this is good!!!

        • UmustBKiddinMe

          So you can’t cite which of God’s laws in the Bible says that two people of the same gender are not allowed to enter into civil marriage. Got it. Thanks.

          • Just Sayin

            All of God’s word is His law and commandment.I don’t think you get that!!!

          • glebealyth

            You don’t get it.

            Read your buybull and wise up.

          • Just Sayin

            Mark as spam.

          • glebealyth

            You truly believe the Buybull is spam?

            Shame on you.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            Where did God say that two people of the same gender are not allowed to enter into civil marriage?

          • Richard P. Mendoza

            Read the following passages. The Bible make things obvious and God expects us to use common sense (which is what our society at large has been losing, thus the problem of not being able to “SEE” the obvious), male and female means men and women becoming husbands and wives;

            Matthew 19 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

            19 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these sayings, he departed from Galilee, and came into the coasts of Judæa beyond Jordan; 2 and great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there.

            3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a MAN to put away his WIFE for every cause? 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them AT THE BEGINNING (that’s Adam and Eve) made them male and female, 5 and said, For this cause shall a MAN leave father and mother, and shall cleave to HIS WIFE: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh.

            What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

            RPM~ And so there you have it. God instituted MARRIAGE not man, or some evolutionary apes. And WHAT God first arranges was sinless and good for it was DONE before man sinned. God said everything He made was “good” Genesis 1:31.

            Only MAN and WOMAN can become ONE FLESH. Gay people CAN’T, they can’t mate and produce “one flesh” or “any flesh” that is to say they can’t produce a child, or “after their kind.” This is so very obvious, it is a physiological, biological, DNA genetic impossibility for a gay couple to reproduce and conceive “gay” offspring, or any kind of offspring. If gay people wanted to continue their “race” they require male and female “husbands and wives” (in the Bible in the beginning there were no marriage licenses, they just laid with one another and consummated the marriage). If all the gay women were sent off to their own world or planet to do as they please, and so with all the gay men, then everyone would quickly see the truth that gay people CANNOT reproduce or “produce after third KIND.” The only way they can is by impregnating the minds of people with their ideas of mating with the same sex. Dog and cats don’t even do that, it not natural in the animal world.

            Jesus continues . . .

            7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

            So, there is an allowance (not to be take as approval for) divorcement not in harmony with God’s will, and the Bible is clear that adulterous men and women will not enter the kingdom of Heaven, thus showing that these kinds of relationship are sinful and wrong, and should NOT be done.

            Now here is an obvious indicator that any kind of immoral relationship between men and women, or men and men, or women and women, or men and children IS not allowed by God or for Christians:

            1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Modern English Version (MEV)

            9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

            Romans 1:16-32Modern English Version (MEV)

            The Definition of the Gospel

            16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. For it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith. As it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”[a]

            The Guilt of Mankind

            18 The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth through unrighteousness. 19 For what may be known about God is clear to them since God has shown it to them. 20 The invisible things about Him—His eternal power and deity—have been clearly seen since the creation of the world and are understood by the things that are made, so that they are without excuse.

            21 Because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him or give thanks to Him as God, but became futile in their imaginations, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools. 23 They changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, birds, four-footed beasts, and creeping things.

            24 Therefore God gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their own bodies among themselves. 25 They turned the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

            26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged the natural function for what is against nature. 27 Likewise the men, leaving the natural function of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another, men with men doing that which is shameful, and receiving in themselves the due penalty of their error.

            28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not proper. 29 They were filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, proud, boastful, inventors of evil things, and disobedient toward parents, 31 without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, calloused, and unmerciful, 32 who know the righteous requirement of God, that those who commit such things are worthy of death. They not only do them, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

          • Valerie James

            Psalm 119:92 (KJV)
            92 Unless
            thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine
            affliction.2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (KJV)
            10
            And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that
            perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be
            saved.
            11 And for this cause God
            shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
            12 That they all might be damned who believed not
            the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

          • http://www.biblical-investigations.com/ Richard P. Mendoza

            Thanks for your texts you shared.

          • http://3edgesword.blogspot.com/ Feynman and Coutler’s Love Chi

            This is another example of the classic “Jesus never said I can’t drive my Camero on the sidewalk” logic.

          • glebealyth

            So you also stone rebellious teenagers, don’t eat pork or shellfish, wear mixed fibres and give the first fruits of every womb to the temple?

            I think it is YOU who dies not get that!!

          • MC

            He won’t get it because he’s a village atheist and they’re not known for having critical thinking skills.

          • MC

            The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. (‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭23-24‬ NASB)

            And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, ‘F OR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH ‘? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” (‭Matthew‬ ‭19‬:‭4-6‬ NASB)

            But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE. F OR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” (‭Mark‬ ‭10‬:‭6-9‬ NASB)

            But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. (‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭7‬:‭2-3‬ NASB)

            Not to mention the levitical laws against men with men and women with women.
            Show me where in Scripture God sanctions gay marriage?

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            So nothing about two people of the same gender being banned from entering into civil marriage.

          • MC

            Yes, every Scripture I posted affirms that marriage is between a man and a woman. The Jews and the followers of Christ knew this, as it is God’s Moral Law. When Jesus stated that marriage is between a man and a woman, that excludes any other type of marriage, even polygamy that was also against God’s moral law but some broke that law and suffered the consequences of their actions. Anyone who does not see that Scripture blatantly teaches that marriage is strictly between a man and a woman is being both obtuse and intellectually dishonest, to the point where I would have to question their IQ level.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            Let me know when you find a piece of scripture that specifically states that two citizens of the same gender are not allowed to enter into civil marriage. I’ll wait.

          • MC

            I already did and easily refuted your argument. Now you have proven to me that not only are you ignorant of Scripture, you’re intellectually dishonest, obtuse, and have a low IQ to boot. Thanks for confirming what I already thought of you. You’re irrelevant and useless.

          • Bella

            Leviticus 20:13….

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            That doesn’t say that two citizens of the same gender are not allowed to enter into civil marriage. Try again.

            Oh, by the way, based upon that passage, if two citizens of the same gender are not having sexual relations, then there should be no objection to their getting married.

          • Candyapple!

            In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

          • Bella

            Leviticus 20:13

          • glebealyth

            The passage from Matthew – woman caught in adultery – is a made up insertion, not appearing in earliest versions of the gospel. Jesus never said that.

          • MC

            Can you show me verifiable evidence that I used that passage? If not then I have to question your comprehension skills.

          • glebealyth

            I apologize. You may put it down to failing memory and reduced visual skills.
            The aging process is a wonder.

            My comprehension skills are fine, though I am not surprised that you feel the need to resort to personal abuse, however mild, as it does seem to go with the Christian mentality.

          • MC

            Personal abuse? Are you really that weak minded? That’s a rhetorical question by the way.

          • glebealyth

            Yet you compound it.

          • Becca Corley

            lev 20:13
            If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            So then as long as two people of the same gender aren’t having sexual relations, it is fine for them to enter into civil marriage.

          • Candyapple!

            Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

            Romans 1:27 – In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

        • glebealyth

          Each of the following appears in the Buybull and is approved by god:

          One man and his sister;
          One man and his dead brother’s wife;
          One man and one woman and her servants;
          One man and his rape victim;
          One man and many women;
          One man and 700 women and 300 concubines;
          One man and one woman and her slaves;
          One soldier and his virgin prisoners.

          Let’s go with traditional, biblical marriage.

          • David

            Just FYI… a man’s relationship with his concubine is not a marriage. By definition. Otherwise she wouldn’t be a concubine. Also, polygamist man is not in a marriage with multiple women. He is in multiple separate marriages, each of them being with one woman. Each of those marriages that you stated is still one man and one woman.

          • glebealyth

            Nice apologetic.

            Must remember that.

            ;o))

          • David

            ??? Apologetic?

          • glebealyth

            We both appear to have had out tongues in our cheeks.

          • David

            I did mean what I wrote. (What am I saying that’s incorrect?) I’m just not saying it as a defense of anything.

          • Becca Corley

            thats a lie. He doesn’t approve of rape, that scripture you are refering to does not say rape (the word is siezes and lays with not raped or forced. This implies he took her in his arms, there is no mention of her resisting him) and he doesn’t approve of plural marriage, one can clearly see that every plural marriage in the bible is full of pain, and family discontent. The bible is a record of what men did and their consequences because of how God viewed thos actions. Cain and Ables story is there too, but that does not mean that God approves of murder. Davids children raped one another and one warred against him, that story is evidence that a family should be one man and one woman and tightly knit together, when you start spreading families out into seperate homes, they compete, and become discontent and insecure. And including slaves into a marriage is plural marriage, and also not approved of, and as for soldiers and virgin prisoners, rape is not permitted in any case. She would be asked to be his wife, a legal wife with all the rights of the wife, including being given time to grieve for those she lost in the war. It was not lawful to rape, and he could not have sex with her without her consent without it being rape. You really ought to read the Bible with the purpose ofounderstanding God, and not with the purpose of trying to prove y

          • glebealyth

            SOLOMON!

          • glebealyth

            ABRAHAM!

          • glebealyth

            It is a record of god’s dealings with man, until it becomes inconvenient, whereupon it becomes a record of what men did.
            Standard cherry-picker argument.

            What part of “seizes” makes you think consent was involved?

            “Those who have not laid with a man, you may keep for yourelves…”

            You have a moral standard so low, you might almost qualify as a biblical god!

          • Larry Wilson

            Could you list those verses for me…..
            You reading your Quran?

          • glebealyth

            No.

            Do your own research.

            If you ever read your bible, you might remember them.

        • Hope

          Actually, marriage in the bible was often between one man and as many women as he could get his dick into, by force or otherwise. It’s a horrible book and you shouldn’t believe anything in it.

          • Mark

            Just because some action is mentioned in the Bible, that doesn’t mean that God condones what the Bible describes. For example, the Bible mentions slavery and slaveholding, but it never holds out slavery and slaveholding as good and noble. The Bible mentions that certain men had many wives, but it doesn’t promote that as being good and noble. We must read the Bible with a discerning heart and mind and with a humble heart.

            As to slavery and slaveholding, the Bible clearly teaches that God prefers freedom for the oppressed, as we learn when he appointed Moses to lead Israel out of the land of slavery in Egpyt.

            I strongly disagree with you, Hope, that the Bible is a horrible book. It’s a great book because it all points to Jesus, who humbled himself to become a man and share in our humanity so that we, by humbling ourselves and receiving Jesus, may touch his divinity.

          • MC

            Wow, you’re a weak minded person.

          • Hope

            That’s debatable, as is in your case as well. But I’m not wrong.

          • MC

            So, you’re a weak minded person. And yes, you’re wrong.

          • Hope

            Can you explain what you mean by “weak-minded”?

            No I’m not, yes you are, whatever. Unless you can present some sort of evidence that I’m wrong, there’s no reason to discuss.

      • MC

        The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. (‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭23-24‬ NASB)

        And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, ‘F OR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH ‘? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” (‭Matthew‬ ‭19‬:‭4-6‬ NASB)

        But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE. F OR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” (‭Mark‬ ‭10‬:‭6-9‬ NASB)

        But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. (‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭7‬:‭2-3‬ NASB)

        Show me where in Scripture God sanctions gay marriage?

        • Bella

          nowhere

        • Zasz

          The bible does not say to stop gay marriage. It says you should kill them (Lev 20:13). If you are not willing to do that, then stop using the bible to justify your discrimination because you arent even following it.

          • MC

            Let me address your failed ignorant childish typical village atheist argument. Homosexuality is a sin because it goes against God’s unchanging Moral Law, killing homosexuals was part of the judicial law of that time, in the ANE, for the ancient Israelites. I don’t know what country you’re from but here in America we have different judicial laws that we follow. Now, take a course in logic and critical thinking so you won’t keep making embarrassingly horrible strawman arguments. You have my permission to go now.

      • Bella

        Well read the Bible and you might find where it says this: ‘a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.’

        • UmustBKiddinMe

          Nothing in there that says two citizens of the same gender are not allowed to enter into civil marriage. That has to do only with sexual relations. Therefore, based on that passage, if two people of the same gender aren’t having sexual relations, then there should be no issue with their getting married, should there?

      • Bella

        Leviticus 20:13 for one

    • Rachel Henry

      i thought in the bible, it says judge not lest ye be judged?
      and,
      that god is the only judge?
      and,
      that every single one of us is a sinner?
      so then, how can we judge other sinners in a way that is worse than our own sins?
      i would really, REALLY love to get a logical response to that question.
      christians discriminating against and judging lgbtq *nonstop*, even christians who HAVE BEEN DIVORCED, somehow thinking their sins are less? it doesn’t say which sins are better or worse in the bible! we are ALL sinners, no?! so how can you think that god is okay with you sitting on a high horse saying their sins are somehow worse and more deserving of judgement than yours?!

      • Just Dee

        Maybe you missed the fact that the “judge not” chapter is exactly about holding other people to a higher standard than you hold yourself. And maybe you missed the fact that Jesus Himself judged the priests and scribes and Pharisees and Sadducees frequently and HARSHLY. He made it very clear that believers are ABSOLUTELY required to judge the words and actions of other people who claim to be followers of His, to see whether their lives bear out their claims of fellowship with Christ.

        You are a thousand percent correct, though, when you say that we all sin, and that no sin is worse in God’s eyes than any other sin. Sexual sin is still sin and it doesn’t matter whether it’s two males, two females, or one female and one male who are not married to each other.

        By the way – Jesus was asked about marriage and sexual sins. He stated, VERY clearly, that God created man and woman, that marriage was intended for these couples, and that any sex outside of a man-woman marriage relationship is sin. Jesus’ death and resurrection fulfilled the death penalty requirement in the old Jewish law so that now sinners can be forgiven instead of executed.

        Where your understand is breaking down, Rachel, is with the command that believers are not to participate in the evil-doing or sins of other people. Many Christians in wedding industries do not want to sell flowers, cakes, etc for same-sex weddings because that gives the appearance that they approve of the same-sex marriage. You’ve heard of the Muslims at Targets and Wal-Marts who won’t ring up your bacon or pork or ham or alcohol purchases? It’s the same thing – the act of ringing up your purchase means (in the eyes of their religious understanding) that they are assisting you in your sin of consuming pork products.

        Jesus did also say that divorce was never part of God’s plan for marriage and that any divorce for reasons other than adultery is sin; He also said that only the innocent spouse can, in God’s eyes, remarry. You may not be aware, but there are still churches that will not perform wedding ceremonies for divorced persons unless those conditions are met. If most churches choose to ignore those standards, well, those pastors and elders and deacons and church boards will have to answer to God, eventually.

        • MC

          You are correct! We are commanded to judge ALL things.

          • Zasz

            And by that you claim the right to discriminate, the right to condescend LGBTs and non-christians, exploit politicians to create laws to favour your religion, the right to oppose laws for equal rights… You oppose what two people do in their bedroom but dont agree with the same verse that also says “they shall surely be put to death”. Cherry picking at its best.

          • MC

            I discriminate against evil. By the way, you discriminate all day every day, as does every one else including the government. You just don’t have critical thinking skills to understand that.

          • Nicholas Moore

            In that case, you being evil, should be discriminated against.

          • Zasz

            Explain how the behavior in bedrooms of people you never ever meet in your life are evil.
            Also explain where exactly Im discriminating “all day every day”. Are you watching me “all day every day”?

          • MC

            Everyone discriminates, the government discriminates. Do you think people with severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia and paranoia should have a right to own guns? Should blind people be allowed to drive a car, public bus, train, boat, plane? Do you give your money to churches and traditional marriage campaigns?

        • Rachel Henry

          whatever. religion justifies hate and discrimination, and your inane points, certainly biblically backed, only go to show the truth of that.
          enjoy your christian-based discrimination and hate, and sit pretty in the false and ludicrous “knowledge” that i’ll be in hell burning for eternity while you drink tea and eat crumpets with god in heaven.

    • Maleka Turner Giovinco

      then they should stop serving gays and taking their money if they truly believed!

    • Matt

      Aaron and Melissa, God will punish you as you have broken his most basic commandment “love others as you would be loved”. Prepare for your judgement.

  • todd

    The attack on Christians is out of control, right here in the U.S. The tactics are like those of ISIS, just without the blood. Anti-Christian individuals and groups are be-heading Christians by attacking their businesses, their freedoms, and their dignity. God’s wrath will be visited upon the wicked, in this lifetime and the next. Be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might, for He shall deliver those who serve Him from the hands of the wicked.

    • Nisse

      Damn right, next thing they might object to us Christians stoning those who work on Sundays, ISIS have more compassion than those terrible people! Jeesus will return any day now, I’m sure of it, I can feel it in my heart!

      • Richard

        You’ll come face to face with Jesus when he decides. On that day, you’ll get all the evidence you need. I’m confident he’ll remind you of what you said about him and his children. If you think a $135,000 is bad…

        • Nisse

          He’ll have nothing on me, I don’t eat shellfish, I never wear mixed fabric, and I treat the gay as walking excrement, just like He ordered. I’m a shoe in!

          • William Austin Long

            You must not read The Bible all that much. The Jewish Sabbath Starts at sundown Friday and ends on sundown Saturday. We go to Church on Sunday to commemorate the Resurrection of Christ on Easter Sunday. We call it the Lord’s day. Not the Sabbath. And as far as the Levitical laws go. I guess you’ve never read the New Testament. (Especially the books written by Paul.) The law was set up to show us that we are sinners who are incapable of meeting God’s perfect standards. Christ freed us from the burden of the law. And we are now judged by his Righteousness and not our own. So next time you want to mock us. At least find out what you’re talking about. God bless

          • Nisse

            Hello, I’m Christian, not Jewish! Although I prefer the first Testament to the second, cause the second doesn’t hate the gayers as much.

          • Mary Strickland

            Read Romans 1:24-32 Nisse, and see what the New Testament says about gays.

          • Sharon Jackson

            Amen!

          • William Austin Long

            Ironically the Old Testament is a Jewish book. And Christianity is a Jewish Religion with a Jewish Messiah!! And the New Testament condemns Homosexuality just the same as the Old. Read Romans 1.

          • Laura Behnke

            Christians do not hate gays.. they also do not threaten death rape and other horrible things on them.. Christians love everyone.. hate the sin.

          • marg

            You are an idiot.

          • Nisse

            God will smite you for that, he’s protective of me like that.

          • MC

            Agreed! But we are still under God’s unchanging Moral Law.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            You might find you were wrong.Not eating certain foods or acting as you are acting will not save you.

          • Nisse

            Matthew 7:1

          • William Austin Long

            John 7:24. I guess you don’t know what context is. The context of Matthew 7 is condemning hypocritical Judgement. (Read more than just that one verse and you’ll see.) We are not to Judge unbelievers. (That’s Gods job.) But we are ordered to Correct and hold out brothers and sisters to Scripture with love. Context is everything.

          • Michael Hampton

            Proverbs 23:2 says that you are supposed to slit your own throat if you are prone to gluttony. So how many fat people have to told to kill themselves today?

          • MC

            So when Jesus said to pluck out your eye if it causes you to sin, you really think he meant it literally? I guess you don’t know what hyperbole is. That figures, most atheists lack logic and critical thinking skills.

          • Laura Behnke

            Don’t be stupid.. Jesus came and fulfilled the old law.. don’t cherry pick the bible.. don’t speak about what you do not know.

          • Michael Hampton

            Oh, so you get to pick what laws you follow in the Bible and yet want us to base our laws on it.

          • marg

            Interesting how you pick and choose what tiny piece of scripture to throw out there……did you use google to find it???

          • Laura Behnke

            No marg.. the atheists and the LGBT supporters have a handbook of which scriptures to cherry pick.. they think it makes a point for them when in reality it makes them look silly and intolerant.

          • Michael Hampton

            The term that you have interpreted as “homosexual” appears only 5 times in the Bible. And yet, you and your ilk claim that it is the most important part. That this decision is the most important decision SCOTUS has ever made.

            How many times does something have to be mentioned to be important to “Christians?”

            And you didn’t answer my question. If you are going to tell me that I have to live by the rules of your Bible, you had better follow every single rule yourself. Even the ones that contradict other rules. So, how many people eating too much have you told to kill themselves?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Speaking out against sin is not Judging. If Christians do not reach out to the lost through the truth, God will judge them for not speaking out. People like ((((you)))) love to twist the Bible to fit your life style.

          • Michael Hampton

            And yet, denying service in Oregon based on sexual orientation is a crime. Even if you think that the Bible tells you to discriminate. See, the Bible is what “Christians” used in the past to say that they could discriminate against black, Asian, Latino, Irish, Italian, and Catholic Americans,

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            < I still Believe in the Bible.

          • Michael Hampton

            And no one is stopping you from doing that. That’s why all of this “religious freedom” nonsense is so frustrating to the rest of us.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Thank God for that. <

          • Michael Hampton

            Um…no. Thank our Constitution for that.

          • Laura Behnke

            She was right the first time.. Thank God for that.

          • Del Sydebothom

            That’s silly. God is the foundational prerequisite for all contingent being (a category within which vellum and paper are to be included). Were God not always acting as the overarching principle of reason in the universe, none of its particulars–including the U.S. Constitution–could exist.

          • Michael Hampton

            And yet, no. Our laws are based on reason and logic. I exist fine without God.

          • Del Sydebothom

            Reason, logic, and existence are all mutually convertible. *Log*ic in particular is merely one step removed from *log*os, which is God’s own self-knowledge. God is the overarching principle of reason in the universe. Existence is merely a contingent participation in God’s own “ishood”, who alone *is* existence considered as sheer existence.

            When it comes to our own laws, however, they fall somewhat short of docility to reason. Take the first amendment, e.g. On the face of it, it violates itself. It is a law. Congress makes it. It is in respect not only to *an* establishment of religion, but to every establishment of religion. Since that which is said about a genus (in this case, “establishment of religion”), must be said of each particular thing that is included in that genus (e.g., “The Mormon church”, or “The Southern Baptist Convention”) the first amendment is contrary to reason. It could only be a logically sensible statement if some body other than Congress had made it.

          • Laura Behnke

            Let me set you clear on a few points. The Oregon law is wrong. It is discrimination in and of itself as it discriminates against Christians. Also the bible doesn’t tell us to discriminate it tells us not to celebrate someones sin. Christians do not discriminate.. Also 135k for emotional damages because someone wouldn’t make a cake that goes against their religious beliefs is over kill.. This business was targeted by the LGBT community to do exactly as it has done.. I am sure you also believe that the death, rape and other threats against the family is just fine and dandy right? And bringing in races has nothing to do with the topic at hand.. since being born black, Japanese etc is not a choice.. homosexuality is a choice.

          • Taussig

            let me be clear…..stop spreading the lie that this couple “targeted” the bakery. how ridiculous! there’s not a single shred of evidence for your claim…typical lying “christian”..pathetic

          • Laura Behnke

            I didn’t call you any names so why do you feel the need to call me names? Do you not know how to have a discussion without mud slinging? Beyond that.. what about the other points I made.. they have been targeted with Death threats.. threats of rape.. had to close their business down for not making a cake in celebration of something that the bible tells them not to do..so how about you discuss those points.. or do you wish them dead and raped as well?

          • misterprecedent

            The Bible repeatedly condones (and commands) killing people and rape. It is always obvious when Christians haven’t read the entire Bible and have no idea what it really says, or pick and choose which parts to follow. If the bakers couldn’t figure out how to mix flour, sugar and eggs without obsessing about a customer’s genitals, they shouldn’t be cooking food for anyone. They couldn’t be trusted to follow the laws they promised to obey when they applied for a business license. They deserve to lose their business.

          • misterprecedent

            Christians do discriminate. Selling a cake is not celebrating anything. Christians are 100% free to not own a business if they can’t obey the laws that one must agree to follow when applying for a business license. Had the bakers simply sold a cake, as they willingly do to hundreds of other sinners, there would be no lawsuit. They have nobody to blame but themselves. Jesus preferred to spend his time with sinners. These bakers obviously don’t know him or his teachings very well.

          • marg

            Actually not a single person or business in any of these “discrimination” suits, has in fact discriminated against anyone. They all have served whomever came into their stores or businesses, the couple in this one story even said they had served baked goods to this girl and other gays before without any trouble. They simply chose NOT to take part in a wedding that they decided went against their beliefs. I don’t see you complaining about the gay bakeries or muslim bakeries NOT making cakes for those they disagree with!!! Now, who is discriminating????

          • bananaspy

            Name one gay bakery that has discriminated against someone for their religion or sexual orientation.

          • Michael Hampton

            The gay bakery story was ridiculous. The man just wanted to write how much he didn’t like gay marriage. He didn’t mention his religion so it wasn’t discrimination. Plus, he is being prosecuted now for recording them and broadcasting that recording without their permission. The Muslim bakery story was also ridiculous because that particular state, Michigan, doesn’t have equal protection laws. That bakery wasn’t discriminating.

            Sweet Cakes by Melissa was found guilty of discrimination in a court of law, as was the florist in New Mexico. Both Oregon and New Mexico have equal protection laws where sexual orientation has been added to the list.

            Is that simple enough for you to understand? Whether or not you think they discriminated is moot. They did.

          • Jason Smith

            The Bible doesn’t tell me that I can discriminate. What happened to “We just want the benefits of being married.”? Nope, they want everyone to accept their life choices. I don’t support gay marriage. What’s the point? Next, I’ll be forced to accept the invitation and attend the wedding. Maybe I will be locked up if I don’t show the proper enthusiasm……………

          • Michael Hampton

            What part of being treated equally don’t you understand? It’s very clear. If you really need to discriminate against gay people, you can easily move to a city or state that doesn’t recognize sexual orientation as a protected class. There are around 25 states left that still allow open discrimination against gay people and many states are now trying to make it to where cities that have equal protection laws will have no choice but to rescind them. I don’t care if you don’t like my marriage. No one cares if you don’t like it. But I get the same rights, or I pay lower taxes. Either I am a full citizen of this country, or a second class citizen. SCOTUS will decide.

          • Jason Smith

            You have a right to force someone to participate in your marriage? How does that work? I will never even ask someone’s sexual orientation much less refuse them services based on same. However, I don’t condone their life choices and therefore will not participate in any way. Don’t I have rights? Don’t I have choices? Why must I sacrifice for you? You wouldn’t do the same for me, would you? If so, wouldn’t you go to a bakery that wanted to cater your wedding. Wouldn’t you be happier to be serviced by someone willingly? It’s not about equal rights. If it were, everyone’s rights would matter. As it is, only those whom you choose have rights…………..

          • Lucy

            And yet you judge us all.

          • Hollis James Langley Jr

            Everyone judges

          • marg

            No one is judging anyone. Do you know what judging is?? I doubt it. Christians love the sinner and hate the sin. That is not judging. And I dare say, aren’t you judging Christians just as much as you are claiming Christians judge? You have decided that if a Christian won’t do something YOU decide they should they MUST be a bigot or whatever. That is judging Lucy.

          • Homonaseau

            John 7:24, 1 Cor 6:9

          • Jean Adams

            Yet your Sabbath is Sunday? Not what God said!

          • Sweetpea

            Nisse I see you don’t understand the Bible that well. 1) the shellfish thing was for the Jews not the Gentiles & was lifted at the Cross, so unless you are Jewish you can eat shellfish. 2) the mixed fabric thing has nothing to do with the clothes you wear. it has to do with mixed teachings. 3) the Bible does not say we should treat the homosexuals like walking excrement, we are to treat them with respect just like you treat everyone else, but we are never to accept or condone their sinful life style choice.

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            Nisse understands it quite well. You all just don’t get satire and sarcasm.

          • MC

            No, we understand very well that he, and some others here, are typical village atheist trolls.

        • bananaspy

          Because this is what your brand of Christianity revels in… people being punished for not being like you. What a joy it will be, to live eternally in heaven with yourself and all your bigot friends and bigot family members while the rest of the people who tried to grasp their own concepts of humanity are tortured forever. Heaven must be such an awesome place.

      • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

        One day you will face the one you deny and Reject.A very sad day that will be.

        • Nisse

          I’ll meet my uncle Jeb again? I hope not, he’s got a restraining order.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            God.and His Son Yeshua.

          • uzza

            They have restraining orders? Must be because of all that Old Testament stuff.

      • Mary Strickland

        Nisse, you mock The Son of God by misspelling His Name and using a mockers word at the beginning of you post. Not wise. Jesus IS coming soon and the mockers will bow down before Him and declare that He is the Son of God. But it will be too late. Jesus loves you, and died for you. Don’t lose your salvation.

        • Nisse

          You misspelled Yeshua too, hope you’re wearing sunblock level 2000 when He comes back!

      • Jean Adams

        Actually God said the 7th day (Saturday) was his holy Sabbath. A Roman Leader said The Sabbath was on the 1st day (Sunday). Do you want to follow man or God?

      • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

        You are so hateful you would stone people just for you pleasure. You think you are so cool because you mock God.One day you will be able to talk to Him and tell how much you hated him and the Christians.

        • Nisse

          I’m his favourite, you’ll know one day and then it’ll be too late for you.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            That’s nice. 🙂

          • uzza

            NO, NO, I’M his favorite, ME. You’re a heathen blasphemer!

          • Nisse

            NO WAY! You tell the devil’s porkies. We shall have to settle this like truechristians – with a God Off!

      • todd

        Nisse, your mockery of a Holy and Mighty God is not cute at all, although you delight in it. I will not wallow in the mire of swine with you, but will instead ask God to, in his infinite mercy, forgive you of your attack on His Name, His Son, and His Church, and lead you by His Spirit to bow before Jesus Christ and confess Him as your Lord, and turn away from your life of sin and rejection of His Truth. For the day will come when you will be held accountable for your words and deeds against Him, unless you turn to Him and love Him with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Christ died for your sins, and rose again form the dead, that you might have eternal life through Him and be welcome in the Holy presence of God as His child. Now you have heard the Truth, and now you are responsible for it going forward. May God have mercy on your soul.

        • Nisse

          Will there be ice cream?

        • Jeeler

          I mock your non-existent sky-boy, Jesus H. Christ; especially those who invoke his name and the pathetic superstitions attached to that name, and use it as a legitimate reason to discriminate against others, for no other purpose than to force your religious ignorance, stupidity and cruelty upon others.
          .
          You are demonstrably NOT a moral-ethical person. Rather, you’re a gullible, malleable useful idiot, willing to wallow in mythical nonsense. You lack not only decency, but a brain stem.

          Oh, and I know this pains people like you, but your Jesus is a) not a white, capitalist, gun-totin’, union-bustin’, queer-hatin’ Muricun; and b) notwithstanding a), non-existent.
          Smarten the eff up, 3-watt.

          • TC

            I believe in God,
            the Father Almighty,
            Creator of Heaven and earth;
            and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord,
            Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
            born of the Virgin Mary,
            suffered under Pontius Pilate,
            was crucified, died, and was buried.
            He descended into Hell.
            The third day He arose again from the dead;
            He ascended into Heaven,
            sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty;
            from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
            I believe in the Holy Spirit,
            the holy Catholic Church,
            the communion of saints,
            the forgiveness of sins,
            the resurrection of the body,
            and the life everlasting. Amen.

          • Homer for God

            and Christians are cruel? Wow…I will pray for you Jeeler, Neese, and whoever believes God and his followers (me and those who rightfully stand up for God) are wrong. Clearly we don’t have to defend ourselves to you as you just did the same hate mongering as you claim we do. I love you and will pray for each and everyone of you tonight and throughout the rest of eternity whether you like it or not. How cruel is that?!?

    • TC

      Nisse, your mockery of a Holy and Mighty God is not cute at all, although you delight in it. I will not wallow in the mire of swine with you, but will instead ask God to, in his infinite mercy, forgive you of your attack on His Name, His Son, and His Church, and lead you by His Spirit to bow before Jesus Christ and confess Him as your Lord, and turn away from your life of sin and rejection of His Truth. For the day will come when you will be held accountable for your words and deeds against Him, unless you turn to Him and love Him with all your heart, soul, mind, and strenth. Christ died for your sins, and rose again form the dead, that you might have eternal life through Him and be welcome in the Holy presence of God and His child. Now you have heard the Truth, and now you are responsible for it going forward. May God have mercy on your soul.

      • Guest

        Todd is on the same side if you read his comment in his concern for this couple.

        • Linda F.

          Actually, TC’s comment was for someone named Nisse. I don’t know why it says that TC replied to Todd.

      • Guest

        Someone needs to go back to school, because you obviously need to learn how to comprehend what you’re reading.

        • todd

          Please explain your response, Linda. I read just fine, and find your insults to my intelligence very demeaning. If you are going to insult my intelligence, please demonstrate some by explaining yourself. For if you are indicating that I do not understand the intent of everything Nisse posts on this site, then you either have not read all of his comments, or are simply bent on finding someone to insult. For example, his response “will there be ice cream?” is a clear indication that his intent is not consistent with his words, and that he is being sarcastic and mocking those on here who defend Christian principles. I await your explanation.

        • MC

          Nisse is an atheist troll.

      • todd

        By the way, just to avoid confusion, I, todd, am the same person as TC.

        • Jadedknight

          Well, now that you have explained that you and TC are one and the same it makes sense, before that it was a gobbldy gook that made no sense whatsoever and it is no wonder those other people were confused.

      • todd

        Furthermore, my response above is not a reply to myself, since I, todd, am one and the same person as TC, but rather directed to the person on this page who has been posting as “Nisse.” He is the one I am replying to for his mockery of those, like me, who are Christians defending this couple. Again, my name is todd, and my initials are TC, and the two names used on this site are one and the same person…me.

      • Cecilia Robarge

        But remember when one dies, God passes our entire life before us like movie and how will you see yours lesbians?????? I’d hate to see what you are going to see……

    • WinkyVonTrollStuffer

      The blood is coming

  • MC

    “They included “mental rape,” “distrust of men,” “distrust of former friends,” “discomfort,” “high blood pressure,” “impaired digestion,” “loss of appetite,” “migraine headaches,” “loss of pride,” “resumption of smoking habit,” “shock” “stunned,” “surprise,” “uncertainty,” “weight gain” and “worry.”

    I hope the two lesbians know they have done more damage to their own LGBTP community than anyone could do. More proof that it’s always been about the money. Congratulations, now for the backlash against you and your community!

    • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

      I agree with you.

    • farkward B

      those fat lesbos never liked men to begin with,, hahaha

      • glebealyth

        So, it cannot have been a lifestyle choice, can it?

        • Jen4carolina

          Of course it’s a lifestyle choice. You can choose to be with a man or you can choose to be with a woman. That simple. We are all responsible for our own actions.

          • Zasz

            Well then, choose to be gay right now.

          • Robert Cale

            That’s a bad attempt at logic. For example, married men still are attracted to women other than their wife, some of them make the choice not to act upon that impulse. It is indeed a choice….

          • Larry Wilson

            We all know that gay men and women never do that sort of thing! Right? So tell me please……if someone threatens to burn your home or business would that be considered a hateful crime? Or just be a ugly hateful threat?

          • Nicholas Moore

            Being gay is not a choice… Homosexuality is being attracted to the same sex. Whether you act upon that attraction is a different question. You literally cannot choose who you are attracted to. If you are attracted to the same sex, you are gay (or bisexual if you are attracted to both), period. No choice involved.

          • Flick

            Nicholas Moore, you neglected to mention in your post anything about a person’s life experiences that influence whether one is attracted to the opposite sex or to the same sex. It is not nearly as simple as you want people to believe.

          • franduffy

            APA THEY say no GAY GENE HAS BEEN DISCOVERED IN DNA
            So if you cannot find the gene that makes you gay then I guess it is a choice you make for that lifestyle

          • Zasz

            Being gay is not a choice. Acting on it is. Big difference.
            You being a man is not a choice either. Sitting or standing in the bathroom is a choice. Same concept.

          • Caleb Copper

            If being gay is not a choice, please isolate for me the gene that causes homosexuality. If not a gene, then is it then a birth defect? Please cite for everyone here the medical study or report that explains scientifically that being gay is not a choice. I can show you reports explaining what gene it takes to me male or female, but not the one that controls and distinguishes the homosexual, so I am most interested to hear which reputable study would claim to have found the gay gene

          • xxNBTROUBLExx .

            this is the same guy above who said the bible says to kill your daughter if shes not a virgin lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
            i replied asking for proof…..chapter and verse where it says that. judging by his avatar pic (just a guess is all) that he doesnt have a bible anywhere in his presence.
            if you do, (note intended for the author of the comment above yours) please provide PROOF of all the shit ur spilling in this room. i, for one, am all ears and eyes waiting for your brand of truth and logic. i NEED a good laugh today.

          • MC

            Um, you do know there a group/movement in the gay community called, Queer By Choice, right? You can go to their website.

          • Nicholas Moore

            Um, you do know that they don’t actually say that being gay is a choice, right? You can go to their website.

            They specifically delve into this question…

            Talk about not knowing what you are talking about

          • MC

            Um, do you have a reading comprehension problem? Talk about not knowing what you’re talking about.

            “”For the radicals, like the conservatives, homosexuality is definitely a choice. . . . They both react with disdain to those studies that seem to reflect a genetic source for homosexuality.”
            —Andrew Sullivan, “The Politics of Homosexuality,” The New Republic, May 10, 1993
            Andrew Sullivan doesn’t claim to be a radical—he’d be sickened at the thought!—and he refuses to believe that anyone can choose to be queer. Yet as you can see from the quote above, he clearly acknowledges that those of us who consider ourselves “queer by choice” are true radicals. Whether the idea of queerness as a radical choice is familiar to you or brand new, you’ve come to the right place to find out more about it. This is QueerByChoice-—a radical gathering place for people who have chosen to be queer.”

            “People who believe they only chose to start acting upon same-sex attraction do not usually consider themselves queer by choice. *****Those of us who do consider ourselves queer by choice usually mean that we chose to start feeling same-sex attraction.”*****

            ***”Some queer by choice people do believe it’s possible to choose to turn heterosexual***—which most definitely does not mean we’d ever care to do it! Others of us believe it’s not possible. Some of us simply have no opinion on (or interest in) the subject.”

            “Myth #1: We must be homophobic and ashamed of being queer.
            Reality: Most of us are very happy about being queer—***after all, we chose to be.”***

            “Myth #3: You’ve never met anyone who felt their queerness was a choice.
            Reality: Anyone who says “I’ve never met a queer by choice person before in my life” is making just as ignorant a statement as those who say “I’ve never met a queer person before in my life.” Of course you’ve met some of us—*****we comprise about 8% of the queer community”.*****

          • Zasz

            @disqus_tzfQVe8KpR:disqus @marcocatracchia:disqus
            I dont care about other websites or other people. Right now Im adressing you to choose to be gay. Do it!

          • MC

            I chose not to be gay, the folks of Queer By Choice chose to be gay.

            “People who believe they only chose to start acting upon same-sex attraction do not usually consider themselves queer by choice. *****Those of us who do consider ourselves queer by choice usually mean that we chose to start feeling same-sex attraction.”*****—-Queer By Choice

          • Zasz

            Queers are not the usual homosexuals. Queers are people with a very different and openly abstract lifestyle while the usual homosexuals cant be identified just by looking at them.

            You cant choose to be gay. You can only choose to act on it.

          • MC

            LOL! What are, “usual” homosexuals, you? What are, “unusual” homosexuals, you? And Queer By Choice members refute your argument.
            *****Acknowledging that some of us have chosen our sexual preferences*****
            *****Those of us who do consider ourselves queer by choice usually mean that we chose to start feeling same-sex attraction”*****—-Queer By Choice
            Queer is an umbrella term for the gay community. Boy, you’re full of fail today.

          • Evan Pierce

            What fundamental misunderstanding of the post you’re responding to, they said nothing about choosing who you have feelings for or are attracted to. Maybe you should reread what was *actually* said a couple thousand times until it finally sinks in. You can’t choose who you have feelings for, but you can certainly damn well choose who you’re going to be with, if anyone. Homosexuals (just as heterosexuals) can’t choose who they’re attracted to, but they can choose whether to act on those feelings or not.

          • franduffy

            I chose to be aids free. I thing most normal people know that their
            anal canal is for pooping and if you need a rubber penis then you are a deviate. CHOSE someone with the right parts it is easier.
            DO IT NOW MAKE THAT CHOICE

      • Hope

        Bigots got what was coming to them.

        • Larry Wilson

          Spoken Like a True Bigot! Tell me I’m wrong…..that is the answer from every dumb liberal I have ever met.

          • okamitora

            Well said, Larry.

    • andrew

      while it’s disgusting how they manipulated the trial in which they probably would’ve won anyways because the bakery did violate a state law and they damaged the views on the LGBTQ community, it isn’t about the money in most other cases and this shouldn’t be viewed as the norm.

      • Larry Wilson

        So let’s say the LGBTQ didn’t do the same thing to the Christians community! The norm would now be…..you can’t have any of your own beliefs! You Have to believe what your told now! Right!

        • andrew

          Ok what? Instead of using so many exclamation marks, please clarify what you mean.

          • Flick

            andrew, he’s saying that, while you claim that the real matter at hand is the money–whether the LGBTQRPXYZ in general would have been more interested in the money–rather the real matter at hand is the imposition of one’s beliefs or political agenda on others. If I may paraphrase, tolerance is to be extended to everyone except Christians; tolerance means inclusion of all views and lifestyles except Christian.

          • andrew

            it isn’t about the money in most cases i said. I’m not sure which beliefs you think are being imposed on who, but the LGBTQs aren’t imposing any beliefs on the straight ones.

          • Flick

            I’m not sure how you can say that. The beliefs of the bakery owners is that doing anything to support a sinful lifestyle is itself sin. The LGBTQs took them to court for that belief instead of simply finding another bakery. Are we or are we not free to associate and do business with whomever we choose? Apparently we are not. Are Christians free to live according to their beliefs? Apparently not anymore.

          • andrew

            it was not because of they cake they were brought to court, it was the selling of their information and endangering their well being they were brought to court for.

    • franduffy

      Lost of pride??? how laughable strapping on a rubber penis gives them PRIDE?

      • MC

        I know right? I like, “Distrust of men”. Isn’t that the basis for choosing to be a lesbian? LOL!

  • Tanner Krause

    the average person commits 3 felonies per day in an average day of just living. perhaps we should hire some lawyers to find these felonies committed by both lisa watson and gofundme and prosecute, let them see what its like to have the law wielded as a weapon against them with no redress and no one to help them.

    • Nisse

      Yes! The Scientology way!

    • Michael Hampton

      Why do you want to punish a couple of women who just wanted a cake for their wedding?

      What a “Christian” thing to do.

  • FoJC_Forever

    The Darkness grows in America, as it does in all the world. The Time is short, and the Judgement of this world and age is at hand. The earth groans for the manifestation of the sons of God. The Wicked wail and seethe in their hatred of the Truth.

    The happy, care free attitude many homosexuals have now does not come from being nice people who just want love and be loved. It comes from knowing they have people who will brandish the weapons of fear and oppression to defend their lustful desires. If homosexuals don’t get their way, they turn to violence and threats of violence – just like terrorists.

    The terrorism committed for so long against the innocent in the womb is feeding the demonic powers growing in America.

    • Nisse

      YES! The Wicked gayers shall not have cake! They shall be punished by God, for not being what God in his almighty power designed them to be! Fail, but not by God, but the gayers, for they are Wicked cause they hate the Truth!

      • FoJC_Forever

        God didn’t create homosexuality. It is a lustful desire coming from the fallen, carnal nature of mankind.

        The power of God can save homosexuals from their sin(s) and will create them anew. They need but to ask Jesus Christ.

        • Nisse

          I agree, all us Christians secretly desire our own sex, but we must not fall for that sweet sweet inner demon, for it is wicked and God is terrified that he is powerless to stop it.

        • Erik Gaskins

          once a sexual pervert ALWAYS a sexual pervert,and if “saved” in time their twisted human lustful desires would create..anew..twisted desire

        • Nicholas Moore

          God created men in his image. That means god is gay. Also, I guess thousands of species of animals are sinners too for practicing gay sex.

          This is what you call being a moron.

          • FoJC_Forever

            God is not gay. Sexual lust didn’t motivate God to create mankind. God created both male and female.

            You’ve fallen for the lie of animals being homosexual. Animals have no soul or spirit. They are not motivated by sexual lust and do not seek out the same gender to have sex.

            Your last statement is somewhat correct. I call people who believe what you stated above it, as being moronic.

          • misterprecedent

            Why does your dog hump your leg? Does he think you’re a female dog? It is not at all unusual to see animals engaging in sexual acts with others of the same sex, or with themselves or other objects, to relieve sexual urges.

          • FoJC_Forever

            Dogs, as with all animals, don’t make a conscience choice for sexual behavior. They are simply driven by their hormonal feelings. Humans make a choice.

            Homosexuals choose to obey their lust, thus they are in Sin. People who commit adultery choose to obey their lust to have sex with someone other than their spouse, thus they are in Sin. People who commit murder make a choice to take another’s life, thus they are in Sin.

            Repent of your Sin and accept Jesus Christ’s offer of Salvation, and you will be saved.

          • Nicholas Moore

            Being gay is not a choice. People are born gay, straight, or bisexual. Thus if god created both male and female, he created the gay and bisexual ones too. And if god created man in his image, then, at minimum, god is bisexual.

            I’ve fallen for no lie. Homosexual animals have been well documented. There are even videos of this happening. I can even list animals that practice homosexual behaviour if you so desire.

            No, it is you who have fallen for lies. You who listen to anything your preacher says despite the evidence.

            This is why I called you a moron, because of the pathetic ramblings you manage to produce.

          • FoJC_Forever

            I listen to the Son of God, Jesus Christ, through His Spirit.

            Then list the animals and provide the video links.

            Homosexuality is a product of Sin. If the sin is in your family tree, and you get hit with the temptations, then giving in to them is a sin, just like it was with your ancestors. God gives people the opportunity to resist and overcome sinful behavior, thoughts and feelings through His Holy Spirit. If you reject Jesus, then you are a slave to Sin, specifically in this context, the sin of homosexuality.

            God did not create homosexuality. You obviously don’t believe this anyway, so your argument is irrelevant. You should use what you actually believe as your base, not things you consider to not be true.

            God created human beings to be heterosexual only.

        • misterprecedent

          Homosexual desire is no different than heterosexual desire. Gay people are simply attracted to adults of the same sex while straight people are attracted to adults of the opposite sex. Bisexual people can be attracted to adults of either sex. It’s not a difficult concept to understand. The Bible certainly gets it, with the stories of David and Jonathan and Ruth and Naomi.

      • Mary Jensen

        Outraged over cake against Christians, silent and no outrage when Muslim islamist have the same conviction!! No outrage while Muslims are throwing gays over tall buildings blindfolded plunging to their deaths…but will pick and destroy Christian businesses, threaten and attack Christians and their families. Satanic forces hate children of God so its not about service but their hatred and viciousness towards God directed by Satan. Why are they not attacking Islamist?

        • Nisse

          True, I sense that like me, you have every internet point under scrutiny, and no one is ever criticizing Islam. I mean come on! Those gayer killers probably shouldn’t have cake either, no cake for gayer building plungers!

        • Susan Toler

          Don’t forget that Satan has a special hate for God because he tried to overthrow God in Heaven, and was thrown out of Heaven for it.

      • James K

        God= 3 “men” Jesus =12 “Male” Followers, one his “favorite” he slept with ! A little fishy to me !

        • misterprecedent

          Jesus did spend a lot of time on his knees “washing the feet” of 12 men wearing dresses.

    • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

      What you say is so true. One day God will put an end to this evil. Praise God.

      • Nisse

        You can speed it up by ignoring climate change, it’s the popular thing among us Christians right now. Jesus will come when the world is ruined, it says so in the Bible!

        • Gregg Macklin

          The climate has been changing for 4.5 billion years and it will continue to do so right up until God stops it. But nice try in sell the Earth is God crap here.

          • Nisse

            Don’t be silly, how can the climate be 4.5 billion years old when universe was only created seven thousand years ago? God will stop it any minute now though, cause we Christians are so important and He will want us to be clean up in heaven.

          • Gregg Macklin

            You are confused. The Earth and Solar System is 4.5 billion years old. The Universe in which our Solar System resides, is 14 Billion years old, and the Laws of Physics God created to run His creation prove it. Unless you think God created two sets of Laws just fool us.

          • Nisse

            The Bible is pretty clear on this, no billions ever mentioned. You lose and Jesus cries a little.

          • Susan Toler

            Ha ha no two sets of laws. We Christians are looking at our timeline, the Bible. God created everything in adult firm, so when the scientists look at the Eartth to show them the way, all it can show is what God created. Nothing more.

          • Gregg Macklin

            God made the laws of physics for the Universe to run on. If God violates those laws He sins against Himself. Or are you one that denies the laws of physics?

          • James K

            Man discovered the laws of Physics, Sir. Next.

          • Gregg Macklin

            how can man discover physics if God didn’t create them?

          • Gregg Macklin

            See John 1:3; God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.
            So James K where did physics come from that man could discover it, except that God created I first?

          • andrew

            okay, man discovered America too, they didn’t make it. (okay, the “modern world” at the time discovered it, you know what i mean)

          • James K

            High school education , eh?

          • DukeCanuck

            Nisse is just mocking and having “fun”.

          • James K

            Dumb, just a stupid response.

          • andrew

            he was sarcastic.

          • DukeCanuck

            Christians claiming this makes us look bad. Unless you are just sarcastically mocking Christians. Seems you might be by your writing style.

            There is every reason in science to concede that the creative days vary in length.

            The Universe is NOT 7,000 years old.

          • Nisse

            But where in the Bible does it say this? It was still created in seven days, right?

          • DukeCanuck

            What’s a day? Literal 24 hours? 1,000 years each? 7,000 years each?

            The length of the term ‘day’ varies all through the Bible.

            If man was created 7,000 years ago then the ‘beginning’ started at minimum 42,000 – 49,000 years ago. The universe/earth is not 49,000 years old.

            You are making your own assumptions as to what a creative “day” means.

            But, like I said, I believe you are just mocking Christians.

            Again, there is every reason in science to concede that the creative days vary in length.

            Some maybe billions, some maybe millions, some maybe 7,000 years.

          • Nisse

            Blasfemier! You make it sound like God pulled the numbers out of his ass when he wrote the Bible. I assure you that when He says seven days, He means seven days. Who are you to convert that into time that scientists have agreed on much later?

          • DukeCanuck

            LOL

            You answered my question re. the mocking.

            BTW. Not all Christians are crazy anti-science people like your atheist and religious bigots friends have you believe.

            You should look into it.

            Cheers.

          • misterprecedent

            Genesis 1 indicates quite clearly that a “day” consists of the evening and the morning. How are you twisting that to mean anything but (what we now measure as) a 24-hour period?

          • Shadow Diver

            Hey lamebrain…..your universe is only 5,000 years old.

          • FoJC_Forever

            The bloody hand – an appropriate symbol for you and your kind.

      • Shadow Diver

        Lady….fkyou and your god.

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          No than you. Butyou can do that to your gOD sATAN !

          • James K

            Dumb, very dumb. Next

          • Nicholas Moore

            HAH! A christian claiming abuse and hatred. Pathetic. Next you’ll be claiming persecution and religious restriction.

    • Mary Jensen

      Well said!

    • undertow9x

      BLAH BLAH BLAH. No one cares about your stupid fairy tale mumbo jumbo.

    • Levi Thornton

      Retarded!

    • Shadow Diver

      Oh gofk your mother forfks sake. We are sick of you hateful people.

      • MO

        black kettlte!

    • misterprecedent

      God gives instructions on how to perform abortions correctly. Read the whole Bible and see.

      • FoJC_Forever

        You are lying.

  • FoJC_Forever

    This is a good opportunity for a non-discriminating group of people to start, or further promote, a fund raising web site for those being attacked by the Wicked.

    • PoliticallyJadedNow

      No it’s not. All this business had to do was simply follow the law. They would have made money, been a positive reflection of Christ in the community and probably would have gotten more business. Instead this foolish business owner chose to break the law based on a very narrow interpretation of scripture.

      If you operate a business with public accommodations in the state of Oregon, you best brush up on the legal requirements or face the consequences.

      I bet this baker had no problem baking cakes for divorced people getting remarried or a few gluttons too.

      • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

        I’ll take Mans punishment for not obeying mans law. Mans punishment is not eternal.

        • Nisse

          God said to me that he put a couple of lies in the Bible to test who was stupid and evil enough to follow it, are you sure you didn’t spot them?

          • The Last Trump

            Satan is not God.
            He just thinks he is.
            You should stop listening to him.

          • Nisse

            How do you know YOU are not listening to Satan, and God is getting angrier every minute that you ignore Him?

          • misterprecedent

            If God didn’t want you to listen to Satan, he would eliminate or silence him.

        • PoliticallyJadedNow

          Stop whining about the consequences this baker is facing then. Jesus was about loving people not being hateful and deliberately discriminatory. You actually are legalistic fundamentalist who behaves more like the pharisees.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Jesus die for the sins . When he would forgive He would also say. Go and sin no more. I am not under the law of the old Test. I am under the Blood cov. Jesus Delivered people from their sins and He still dose. Jesus never Promoted sin . He spoke out against sin.

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            We aren’t a theocracy. As technology and science advances more and more is being discovered about the biological basis is for being born that way. Our laws shouldn’t be based on a book written by men in the bronze age who didn’t have a clue on how the world around them worked.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son ,that whoever believes in Him should not perish,but have eternal life
            17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved.
            18He who believes in Him is not condemned. But he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
            19 This is the verdict that the light has come into the world. and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil .
            20 For everyone who does evil hates the light and does not come to the light , lest hie deeds should be exposed.
            21But he who does the truth comes to the light, that it may be revealed that his deeds have been done in God.
            John 3:16-21

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            Can’t think for yourself so you cut and paste bible verses.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            No I typed it by hand. From my Bible. I don’t know how to cut and past Bible verses .It would save me time if I knew how to. I am not educated like others are. I taught myself to read and write. My spelling is not always good. I am not ashamed as I am trying. I am what you will call dumb. Or Stupid. <

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            I used to be a fundamentalist. The leaders don’t want the members to think for themselves. They understand that when people have the power to think issues through for themselves they stop being fundamentalist. It’s propaganda. It’s how cults operate.

            I walked away from everything I believed from early childhood when I started reading some history of the religious right. I got started down that road when I started reading up on serious abuse issues in the Patriarchy, quiverfull and Christian Reconstructionist movement. Conservative christians have become mean, hateful, angry, fearful, paranoid and just not nice in the last few years. That’s not Christ like. It bothered me because the faith of my childhood was not the same as what’s going on in the evangelical church today.

            In fact just last week a history professor from Princeton released a history of the movement and how it has been corrupted by corporate america in response to the labor laws, New Deal and the Red Scare.

            Look up Kevin Kruse’s One Nation Under God on amazon.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Sad for you. There will come a day when you will face God.You will have no excuse.I will not walk away. The Bible said there would come a day when many will leave the Faith. You are a part of that.
            I refuse to be like you . I’ll keep my faith. I choose God. you do not have to. God gave you the same freedom He gave me.You chose to Reject God. I chose to receive God. We will both live with our choice.Now and also in the after life. We have God given Freedom to love God or to Hate God.No one not even me can take that away from you. What I say to you is I choose. I do not tell what to choose.But I can say I think you are wrong. But you still have you free will . I can not nor would I want to take that away from you. Once we die we can not change our heart. Once we die in our choice we can not blame God. We can only blame our self . He ave us the freedom but we made the choice. Good night. Shalom. <

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            You assume I no longer believe. That’s your mistake. I just don’t believe in the religious right evangelical interpretation of Christianity.

            I have faith. I also have discernment and a willingness to use the gift of thinking that God gave me. I read bible scholars, classical theologians, people of God who have taken the time to learn from the oldest original texts who understand the context of the times.

            You are afraid to step out and see the bigger world outside of fundamentalism. I used to be there. The world didn’t end when I questioned all I believed.

      • FoJC_Forever

        There’s only one meaning in Scripture about homosexuality, and it’s the one the Holy Spirit teaches: homosexuality is sinful and not honored by God. He doesn’t want people affirming a union which glorifies Sin, thus glorifying Satan.

        You don’t know Jesus if you think He would have any part in homosexuality. Bad for you now, but you can change if you want to know Truth.

        • misterprecedent

          Jesus spent most of his time on his knees “washing the feet” of 12 other men who wore dresses, and hanging out with other sinners. It appears that YOU are the one who doesn’t know Jesus.

          If God didn’t want his own creation Satan to influence anyone, he could stop him very quickly and easily. Either God is powerless or he doesn’t oppose Satan.

          • FoJC_Forever

            Jesus didn’t spend most of His time washing the Disciple’s feet. You’re intentionally lying. Men didn’t wear dresses in Israel, it was (is) forbidden by God’s Law. They’re robes, not dresses – outer coverings.

            Jesus didn’t “hang out” (socialize as an equal) with other sinners. He ministered to sinners – spoke the Word to them that they might be saved (like I’m doing on this comment board).

            God does stop Satan. Lucifer has limited powers. He has given us the opportunity to have power over the Devil and his Sin through Jesus Christ, the living Word of God. If the world would accept the Word of God, then they would be baptized by Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit, thus giving them power over the Devil. As it stands, people accept the Devil’s ways (pagan religions, false ideologies, unbelief, false claims of being Christian) and walk his path to Destruction.

  • Maria Wilson

    Read:
    Psalm 37: 1-20

    “Fret not yourself because of
    evildoers, neither be envious against
    those who work
    unrighteousness (that which is not upright or in
    right
    standing with God).” (V: 1).

    We may look around and see
    the wicked prospering and wonder ‘Why’?
    The many that go
    against God’s standards may mock and ridicule you
    (V: 12).
    They may have everything in the material and look down
    on
    you (V: 16). But they will meet their fate in the end. The
    Lord
    laughs at their wickedness – because He knows the day
    will come
    when they will be cast down – and the righteous
    will live forever.

    What the Lord tells us to do is to
    trust in Him; delight ourselves
    in Him; commit our way to
    Him. He will then bring it to pass and
    give us the desires
    of our hearts. God doesn’t want us to focus
    on what the
    wicked are doing, or what they may have. But rather
    to
    focus on Him, and what He will do in our lives. We need
    to
    lean on Him, rely on Him and to commit everything to
    Him.
    He will make us as light shining forth (V:
    16).
    As verses 7-8 say, “Be still and rest in the Lord;
    wait for Him and
    patiently lean yourself upon Him; fret not
    yourself because of him
    who prospers in his way, because of
    the man who brings wicked devices
    to pass. Cease from anger
    and forsake wrath; fret not yourself – it
    tends only to
    evildoing.”

    Let our hope be in the Lord. He will
    vindicate us in the end. If you
    are having a hard time
    right now, give it over to the Lord. Continually
    come to
    Him and delight yourself in Him. Don’t let anger get a hold

    for the wicked ‘know not what they’re doing’. Trust in
    God – He won’t
    let you down. He knows what’s going on, and
    He will have the last word!

    • Chris Seavey

      Shut the fuck up u fanatic nutcase!

      • AZWarrior

        And it’s tolerance from people like you that prove our point about ‘you people’.

        • Zasz

          By opposing civil rights you display intolerance. Bigotry doesnt deserve tolerance.

          • Missionary5

            This is not a civil rights issue! Go to another bakery, why force someone to conform to the lowest level? Bigotry goes both ways.

          • Larry Wilson

            I thank you…..I guess it is ONLY A ONE WAY STREET!

          • AZWarrior

            You oppose the baker’s rights in favor of deviants’ rights. Yes, I said deviants. They both have rights , but YOU want to piss on one’s.

          • Zasz

            Nobody has the right to discriminate. If a baker doesnt want to serve gays, then he is discriminating. The reasons are irrelevant. It is what it is.
            If LGBTs would write a book that says “we dont serve christians”, it wouldnt take long before anyone would cry “hate speec/discrimination”. So stop whining when we call you out for being idiots.

          • AZWarrior

            How f’ing tolerant. We’re idiots because we disagree? Well, you’re an f’ing moron.

          • Zasz

            You are idiots for promoting and defending homophobia because a book tells you to.

          • AZWarrior

            It’s NOT homophobesia for someone to freely exercise their 1st amendment rights. You’re the idiot.

          • Zasz

            The 1st amendment doesnt mean you can discriminate because you follow a religion. Its illegal in certain states to discriminate.

          • Caleb Copper

            Increasingly clear that you have read neither the Bible, or the constitution. Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

          • franduffy

            There is the problem. The 1st amendment is for every state NOT CERTAIN LIBERAL STATES.
            HOMO’S ARE LESS THEN 15% OF COUNTRY YET you are the Loudest and most intolerable group in the country.
            YOUR so called CIVIL RIGHTS DO NOT OVER RIDE MINE

          • Zasz

            It doesnt matter if you (mis)use the 1st amendment. Homophobia is homophobia.

          • AZWarrior

            Right. And opposing Obama’s policies makes one a racist, right? Sorry but YOU don’t get to define my beliefs.

          • MC

            Sorry to inform you but there no such thing as,”homophobia”. It was invented by people as a bully tactic when they couldn’t brainwash others to believe what they believe. It discriminates and marginalizes people who suffer from real, actual phobias. Cease and desist from ever using it in the future.

          • Vicenzo Lugo

            Well stated. Thx. GBU greatly.

          • franduffy

            says a HOMOSEXUAL like you!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Terras

            You keep using the word Right(s). It doesn’t imply what you think it does. As Americans we have 10 rights, listed in The Bill of Rights. Please explain to me what right these bakers broke?

          • Zasz

            Ever heard of anti-discrimination laws?
            Anti-discrimination law refers to the law on the right of people to be treated equally. Some countries mandate that in employment, in consumer transactions and in political participation people must be dealt with on an equal basis regardless of sex, age, race, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, gender identity and sometimes religious and political opinions.
            By denying a specific customer this right, you brake the law.

          • Patricia Smith

            it is clear that the baking of goods for these people is not the issue. The issue is requiring people of faith to endorse, to support, to celebrate that which is abhorrent to their faith. And Zasz, you make it clear you are homosexual; you therefore should recluse yourself, as prejudiced. Refuse to sell to someone? Discriminatory. Refuse to go beyond the general goods, because to do so is participatory? Freedom of religion.

          • franduffy

            It’s BREAK NOT BRAKE CAR’S HAVE BRAKES

          • Andrew Sadler

            From what I have seen, these refer to not refusing “public” services. The bakery was a private business, not a syndicate. Should we not allow Muslims to pray in public, because it makes non muslims uncomfortable? Should same sex couples not be allowed to kiss in public, because it makes people uncomfortable? So if the Christian private business chooses to lose a few hundred dollars not making a wedding cake, when apparently there is a bakery that has strong LGBT associations a few blocks away, we should fine them one hundred and thirty five thousand dollars?

          • franduffy

            Actually we would not The bible tells us to not to be yoked with unbelievers.
            If the bible states what God things of men lying with men and women with women then it is PRETTY CLEAR THAT LBGT COMMUNITY are NOT Christians.
            So we would not seek out unbelievers either to patronize or have friendships with as we look to follow God’s instructions on living a Christian life

          • AZWarrior

            They have SERVED them many times. They are opposed to their farce of a wedding.

          • Ezra Tank

            What if the Baker doesn’t like black people? Should their “rights” be upheld then?

            The Bible is NOT the law of this land. The Constitution and it’s amendments are. That’s it.

            If you want to live in a theocracy then move to the Middle East and see how much you enjoy that.

          • AZWarrior

            THAT’S got NOTHING to do with ‘Religious Freedom’. Jeez. Who ties your shoes for you in the morning?

          • Kimbo

            Many of the passages people are quoting were also used to not serve Arican Americans before the civil rights movement. The parallels are so obvious it’s hard to believe a person can’t see them.

      • Missionary5

        Really show your tolerance and intelligence level. Remember that “good is bad and bad is good”!

      • Larry Wilson

        Such a lovely HATEFUL person! Thank you for proving you are that!

      • Thycan

        Learn some manners to act with decency.

    • Nathan Cross

      Thank you Maria, this is a great reminder!

    • Bella

      Even so come Lord Jesus

    • Zasz

      The bible also says you should kill your daughter if she is no longer a virgin at the day of her wedding and to kill gay people. If you are not willing to do that, then stop using the bible to justify your discrimination because you arent even following it.

      • Ashley Hinson Estabrooks

        Clearly, you know nothing about the bible. I wouldn’t quote it if you’ve never read it.

        • Ezra Tank

          Really Ashley? So here ARE some direct quotes from your 2000 year old book:

          Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to
          death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

          A man or a woman who acts as a medium or
          fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves
          to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

          “If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to
          death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.”
          (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

          Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the
          judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.
          Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

          But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a
          virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not
          found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there
          her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against
          Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil
          from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

          So there you have it. Now go and open your Bible and look up the passages. They are all there.

          You CANNOT cherry pick the parts of the Bible you want to make a point and ignore the rest of the book.

          • Steve

            All from the old testament. The new testament is what christians follow today.

        • nettie powell

          amen
          to that

        • Steve

          Its the old “let’s attack the christians with the old testament argument”. Its probably someone who thinks islam is mysterious because they actually do follow a book over 1000 years old that hasn’t changed. Christians today follow the new testament.

      • xxNBTROUBLExx .

        where the HELL does it say THAT in the Bible???? we all make claims, most provide proof, wheres yours? ive NEVER read that in the bible. ur sooo full of shit and shoved right in it buddy. show the whole room your naked ignorance……….
        prove it and then you will be taken seriously. grab ur bible that u got that from and provide chapter and verse where it says that shit. then we can all believe what your saying. PROOF!! PROOF!!!!

        • Ezra Tank

          (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

          Take out your Bible and READ it. It’s in there.

        • nettie powell

          yes i would like to know 2

      • Steve

        The new testament does not profess that and its what christians follow not the old testatment.

    • Jessie Chelliah

      Thank you Ms. Wilson. A beautiful reminder for every child of God. God bless you for writing this. Amen and be blessed.

    • nettie powell

      this is true

  • bowie1

    I suppose then they will need to find another source to help them pay the fine.

  • bvaliant4him .

    My suggestion is that this “Go Fund Me” should be boycotted so as to let them experience the consequences of their persecution of this innocent couple.

    • Nisse

      Yes, and they shall not have cake either. #NO CAKE

    • uzza

      Why do you want to persecute GoFundMe for exercising their religious beliefs?

  • Rey G

    Now in fact all who want to live godly lives in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. But evil people and charlatans will go from bad to worse, deceiving others and being deceived themselves. (‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭12-13‬ NET)

  • uzza

    Let’s see if I’ve got this.
    GoFundMe has a moral objection to raising money for helping people break the law;
    Sweet Cakes has a moral objection to baking cakes for people who are gay;
    Acting on that moral objection is religious freedom,

    but only when SweetCakes does it.

    • Nisse

      Yes, we must make it so that serving gayers cake becomes illegal. That way SweetCakes will have the same right to deny the gayers cake! #Sky cake

    • mark

      Yep, you got it! Look at all these weeping and wailing “Christians.” They don’t care about laws or other people. It’s only about them, and their hypocrisy proves it.

      • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

        You Atheist sure hate Christians.

        • mark

          I’m not atheist but that was cute of you.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            You act like one. Could not tell .

          • mark

            Just as much as you act like a true christian.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            <

  • Lainie Salinero

    Christian HYPOCRITES! You wanna quote Bible verses just so long as it applies to your hatred and unacceptance of others. That’s all it is, plain and simple. It’s using the Bible and manipulating it to serve your prejudices. I get so tired of Christian BS! You claim it’s a violation of Timothy, “Partaking in other men’s sins” Yet what is Gluttany? They serve cakes to fat people don’t they? They serve to people who overeat. Committing sins. They serve to people that they know have committed adultery. Who doesn’t know someone who has committed adultery? Nobody. If you serve to ANYONE you are partaking in another person’s sins. Because EVERYONE is a sinner.

    • Nisse

      Repent, Wicked sinner! No cake for you!

    • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

      One day you will understand. But sadly on that day it might be too late for you. When you face the one you deny and rejected you will learn the truth.

    • msicairos

      I don’t blame you for being an ignorant fool… Without the living resurrected Holy Spirit living in you, what else can one expect to come out out of your ignorant heart. Learn about the true forgiveness and HIS resurrection then accept HIM as Lord and savior; then you will find joy, freedom, knowledge, contentment and peace of mind. Bless you living God/Jesus. Amen

      • misterprecedent

        Jesus preferred to spend time with men wearing dresses and sinners. You should read about him sometime.

    • Richard

      As a moral relativist, you are the hypocrite: if you believe morals are subjective, you shouldn’t have a problem with what anyone says or does…yet you do. You are violating your own moral code.

      • uzza

        Your moral are subjective. You decided for yourself that Yeshua’s morals are good and Quetzacoatl’s morals bad. How much more subjective can one get?

        • Nisse

          Silence! I have it on good authority that Richard follows every rule in the Bible, even the bits that would get you arrested, like he stoned his daughter when she didn’t scream for help when she was raped. That is really moral!

    • mark

      Yeah, ironic… Bakery doesn’t want to serve a gay couple, that’s “within their right.” Gofundme doesn’t want to support bakers, that’s “the homofascist agenda at work.”

    • Valerie James

      Lainie, the truth is, that Jesus came to DESTROY the works of the devil. You are absolutely right that EVERYONE sins!! There is no doubt about that. He came to set US FREE from the sin, and shame from that sin. I know in your heart now, Jesus is calling you to him, HE is the TRUE Saviour, the only one that was PERFECT, the only one that could pay that price for everyones sin. The simple Gospel message, is that Jesus will change even the desires of your heart, so you don’t even want to sin!! ANY SIN!! It is FREEDOM!!! THANK YOU JESUS for saving everyone that will turn to you, he did it and knew they would reject him. We have that choice now, what will we do with Jesus?

      • misterprecedent

        If you are still battling Satan, Jesus obviously failed. God must want Satan to succeed if he allows him to be more powerful than Jesus.

  • mark

    Stop crying like a bunch of babies and send them a donation to their home or place of business. Remember, it’s their business, their rules… Right? 😉

  • Dorîn Anghelescu

    Dear Creștine business owner, please take some advice, from a Creștine! (Christian) 1. Making a cake or a Flower arrangement for a gay wedding is called doing business! YOU are NOT Being asked to Participate in The wedding or sancțiuni it! 2. Why as Creștini (Christians) would you be willing to pervert our Faith to Participate in serving The cause of The anti-Crist by refusing to do business with customers needing your Services under Religious Freedom Restoration laws???? Have you NOT read where The Mark of The Beast will not let People buy, sell, conduct business, Participate in The economy UNLESS they bear The Mark of The Beast??? Do you really want to turn our Faith into that Mark by refusing Gay People access to your Services??? I am Creștine, but I suport #Equality because if my Faith, not in spițe of it! You do not have to support Gay marriage to serve your Gay customers! No one asked you to bless their wedding! They asked you to make a cake and sell them flowers! See???? Easy peezy! Fii binecuvântați!!

    • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

      They are Christine and they want to follow God. They should not be (FORCED) to do what they feel is wrong.

      • mark

        You could say the same thing about gofundme’s decision, no?

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          True Christian faith False Christian faith ? Not the same .

          • uzza

            So everyone who is not a member of the Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879 should be forced to do what they feel is wrong?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            I’m not a member myself.

          • uzza

            I don’t know whether to cry because you missed the point, or laugh because you missed the Emo Philips reference (google “Die, heretic”).

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            No one should be forced do do what they feel is wrong. If I went to an Atheist bakery it would be wrong of me to try to FORCE them to bake me a Creation cake. *IF* it would be against what they believe. It would be wrong for *ME* to force them to do what is wrong in their eyes. Try to understand what I am Trying to say. All Bakers Christian and Non Christian bakers should *NOT* be forced to bake or have your life destroyed if you don’t. <

          • uzza

            Try to understand what we are trying to say. People are forced to do what they feel is wrong all the time–ask a teenager–and it’s a good thing. The koran instructs beleivers to kill christians wherever you find them–your advice is that they should not be forced to let christians live.
            Even I think that is very bad advice.

            Second, no one forces anyone to bake a cake. The law forces business owners to keep their promise to serve the public–to follow the Commandments against false oaths and lying—by not offering to serve the public and then going back on your word.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MUSLIMS. Do ((((not)))) use Muslims against me . The Bible in the old and new Test. talks about the last False religion to take over the world is Islam. We will not be able to stop it. Only when Christ returns to set up His Kingdom will they be stopped. They are killing Christians and God’s Chosen people now. They even kill their own people. The Angel told Hagar her son would be a wild person. I have a lot I could say but I will not. This is the last ((((((((( I ))))))))))) will respond to you. I shake your dust off my feet. But I do Pray that God will send someone who will be able to reach you. If it is God’s Will for you to be Delivered and saved through His Salvation . May His Will for you be done as His Will is done in Heaven. May His Holy Spirit open your eyes,ears,understanding and your heart. So you will be able to see,hear,understand and receive His truth. <

          • uzza

            You got some spittle on your keyboard there.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Sorry but they are dry . Looks like you lied.

          • uzza

            This is the last ((((((((( I ))))))))))) will respond to you.

            ROFL! Ninth Commandment. Look it up.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            uzza lied saying I have spittle on my key board. Then telling me to look up 9th commandment. I did not bear false witness as my keyboard is dry.He/She got mad because I said He/She lied. ROFL

          • misterprecedent

            Your opinions match those of militant Muslims on this issue. They hate gay people, too.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            I do not hate gays. I am against your lifestyle choice . I have a couple of Gay friends that I love .My hope and my Prayer for them is that they will be Delivered and receive Salvation. Now you I have no respect for as your attitude for Christians.

          • misterprecedent

            Atheists wouldn’t be stupid enough to think mixing flour and butter and sugar equates to practicing someone else’s religion or celebrating someone else’s event. If you think it’s wrong to obey the law, then don’t apply for a business license.

    • Valerie James

      Dorin, have you read this scripture? Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. I believe that Melissa and Aaron are believers, but I also believe, there are those that promote traditional marriage that are not even believers, they just know in their hearts it is the right thing to do. Which side is really the Christian side then? I believe it is in the Word of God, search the scriptures for yourself to see the answer. Personally, I believe JESUS came to set the captives free from their sin, ONE of those sins is homosexuality. It is not loving to say they must stay in that lifestyle of sin, I would NEVER recommend that lifestyle. I believe that NOTHING is impossible with Jesus, even overcoming homosexuality.

      • Dorîn Anghelescu

        Homosexuality is NOT a sin! Gay people are born so from mothers womb, as Isus Hristos taught in Matthew! Isaiah 56 clearly say Isus not can return until ALL de Dumnezu Eunuch childfen, son and daughter are welcome back to church! Bible do not need to be re define, just re read. I support Equality because of Faith, mine, not in spite of! Homosexuality was not added to Bible until 1856 and most printed versiune, 1946. Yes, I do read scripture. I just do not read my own bias into it.But I doubt I can open you mind because of cognitive dissonance, affects much Americans…………….

  • mark

    Don’t worry guys, gofundme is based out of Indiana and shut it down due to their religious beliefs. Religious freedom baby, this is what you all wanted.

  • Brian Paille

    Good job, GoFundMe for standing up against the bigots and the lawbreakers! Finally, a company with morals to stand against the people without!

  • Rae Nichelle-Peres

    Lies. There was no competitor. Cupcake Jones business name was just thrown out there. GoFundMe received numerous messages from average citizens throughout Oregon who pointed out their campaign was in violation of their policy pertaining to raising money for a legal issue. They broke a State Law and have to face the consequences. Plain and simple. No foul play, no hearsay. Just the facts.

    • Nisse

      You have some nerve coming here with “facts”, don’t you know facts are the devil’s playthings!? Faith is where the good stuff is at and facts don’t go well together with faith!

      • Rae Nichelle-Peres

        As a Christian, I resent your remark. But thanks for your biased opinion just the same.

      • Rae Nichelle-Peres

        As a Christian, I resent your remark.

        It would behoove you not to judge a person you don’t know, for you would be a stellar example of hypocrisy and part of why so many have left Chrisitianity. You can’t have faith in others when they live in the exact opposite of the light of God. So, with that said, don’t waste your breath or you’ll suffocate from ignorance.

        • Nisse

          Thanks for re-sending my remark, God be upon you!

          • Rae Nichelle-Peres

            Someone pegged you for your mockery in an earlier comment. I have to say I agree with them.

          • Nisse

            Damn those mockers, God will not be mocked, he has feelings too!

        • FoJC_Forever

          If people reject Jesus Christ, it isn’t because of someone else, it’s because they chose to embrace the Lie and walk the Dark Path to Destruction.

          There is no such thing as having Faith in others. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Faith isn’t in others, it’s in God and of God.

  • mark

    Awww gofundnme shut down your campaign and now you all want to boycott or sue them. Doesn’t feel very nice does it? Coming from the people who chanted “they have the right to refuse service to anyone” to the bakers, the hypocrisy is incredible. Just because you personally wouldn’t refuse service to them doesn’t mean they can’t. This is the “freedom” you all wanted. Ha!

    • http://truesonsofabraham.com/ Clement Pulaski

      Is anyone saying that state authority should be used to force GoFundMe out of business?

  • Michael Hampton

    Why do you have to lie to people in order to show how morally superior you are to the rest of us? It undermines your argument. Melissa herself is the one who said that GoFundMe shut their fundraiser down because of “illegal purposes.” Your headline is a lie. GoFundMe said that they violated their terms of use, but that the money is still available to the bakers. The only people who suffered in this situation is the couple that was discriminated against. The only victims here are the ones who are the actual victims, as proven by a court of law.

    • mark

      These christian websites arent about accuracy, rather headlines that appeal to the radical conservative crowd.

  • Hollis James Langley Jr

    Seems as tolerance has become totalitarianism

    • Nisse

      Yes, where are the good old days when we could keep the black as slaves, just like the Bible said. They’re just so hurtful to our religious beliefs with their inclusions of “minori-ties”, is that how you spell it?

  • Jeremy Stephenson

    GoFundMe can GoF**kThemselves!

    • Nisse

      Very clever, but not very Christian. Repent or fry in heck!

  • Kevin Curl

    Every business owner has a right to refuse a customer and if its against their beliefs so be it . It isn’t like they couldn’t find another baker happy to do homo weddings . I wouldn’t do them and shut down my business and start another one someplace . There’s all kinds of businesses that do this so called discrimination , you can’t get a muslim bakery to do pro Israel cakes or homo bakery’s to do Christians believe homo’s are abomination ! So what , f-ck the PC police , and homos getting special treatment !

    • mark

      Based on your own words, gofundme also has the right to refuse service to whoever they want.

    • misterprecedent

      No, they don’t. When you apply for a business license, you agree to obey the law and serve everyone equally.

      The Middle East might be a better place for your discriminatory business. Militant Muslims share your beliefs against gay people. You’d be like two peas in a pod.

  • http://truesonsofabraham.com/ Clement Pulaski

    Some seriously illogical logic being used by GoFundMe. The couple is raising money to pay a fine imposed on them by the courts. That is, they are raising money in order to comply with a legal ruling. How could that possibly be illegal?

    • mark

      Cuz it’s like hiring someone to do your own prison time. Not that difficult to comprehend.

      • http://truesonsofabraham.com/ Clement Pulaski

        Are you saying that it’s illegal to solicit help in paying fines and legal fees?

        • mark

          Illegal no. I definitely don’t agree with it though.

    • uzza

      It’s not illegal, it’s immoral. Just like the bakers refuse to serve the lesbians, GoFundMe refused to serve the bakers. Both are exercising their religious freedom. GoFundMe isn’t breaking the law in the process AFAIK.

    • misterprecedent

      They’re trying to get other people to pay for a punishment they earned. It figures that Christians wouldn’t take personal responsibility for their own actions. Brutally sacrifice a virgin once on their behalf and they think they can get away with anything forever with no consequences.

  • david

    when all the smoke clears, you will see it is the judges and politicians that are strangling the average american.

  • TheDoctor67

    Time to put “Go Fund Me” out of business for discriminating against people of faith.

    • mark

      “We reserve the right to refuse anyone.” Do you believe in that? Or does that only apply to Christian businesses.

      • TheDoctor67

        I believe that if you own a private business, you reserve the right to refuse anyone. It is well within “Go Fund Me” rights to refuse service to anyone. When I say “put them out of business”, I mean that we the people who identify with the bakers should no longer support a company that takes such a stand. Just like the pro-homo crowd has the right to stop supporting any company that refuses service to them. I do not mean that the state or government has the right to close it down, or that lawsuits should be filed. Let the free market decide.

        • UmustBKiddinMe

          “I believe that if you own a private business, you reserve the right to refuse anyone.”

          You are mistaken.

        • misterprecedent

          Do you support people who break the laws against murder and rape, too? How do you decide which laws and Bible verses to support and which to ignore?

          When the Kleins applied for a business license, they agreed to follow the law. They lied. They broke the law. They deserve to have their business closed. Maybe they will be lucky enough to be hired by employers who can be trusted to keep their promise to obey the law and not discriminate against people.

          • TheDoctor67

            Please show me the law that says that a business owner must provide services to anyone who requests their services. So what your saying is that if you are a Jew, and a Nazi war criminal came into your shop, and wanted to rent your establishment to hold a Nazi party, that you would be forced to allow that? Or if your wife was raped, and the rapist wanted to rent your establishment to celebrate his getting out of jail, then you do not have the right to say no? Owners must reserve the right to service whoever they want.

      • UmustBKiddinMe

        That hasn’t been the law since 1964.

  • Rebel_Lady

    Whoever ruled against the Christian couple is in violation of Oregon’s state constitution. Article I, Section 3 states “No law shall in any case whatever control the free exercise, and enjoyment of religeous [sic] opinions, or interfere with the rights of conscience.—” These Christians should not be forced to participate in a ceremony that is in opposition to their religious beliefs.

    • PoliticallyJadedNow

      They are only providing a cake. They are not participating in the ceremony. The judge seemed to understand Oregon law just fine. This issue has to do with the public accommodation law not religious belief law. A business is not a person.

      • Crono478

        You missed the whole point. Florists, bakeries, photographers and so on actually get involved with weddings. It is more than “providing a cake”. This is why Christian businesses declined to provide service because it would meant for them to participate in weddings that is contrary to their beliefs. They suffered greatly for this.

        Where is freedom of religion? The message is becoming like this: we can believe whatever we want but we cannot live based on them. We are losing this freedom.

        • PoliticallyJadedNow

          No I don’t miss the point. I’m just calling out whiny and pathetic evangelicals who expect everyone else to follow their religious beliefs when they are in business. If you can’t serve the public then find another job.

          A baker who sells wedding cakes can’t discriminate against same sex couples while at the same time willingly serving other sinners. The bible actually says more about divorce and remarriage than it does about homosexuality. I haven’t heard of a christian baker refusing to make the cakes of divorced couples who are remarrying or making a baby shower cake for single mothers.

          It’s the hypocrisy.

          • Crono478

            You are wrong on one part. All of us are sinners because we broke His Law. It is not wrong to do business with anyone as long as we do not partake in their sins.

            That is why the business mentioned in this article had no problem with selling cakes to the same homosexual couple. They declined to do it for their wedding.

            Now, you are right on another part. I have not seen anyone speaking against various sins such ones you have mentioned. The reason is, people is abandoning Bible and condoning sins. Bible says that we are to show other people have sinned against God and that we need to repent of them or we will perish and believe that Jesus is Our Savior and Lord.

          • PoliticallyJadedNow

            The law in Oregon is pretty simple. No discrimination based on sexual orientation.

            Same sex marriage is here. The USSC will hear arguments this week and decide soon. Based on the previous rulings this is soon to be legal in all 50 states.

            Not everyone believes in your interpretation of scripture. If a christian can’t serve all who walk in to buy their product then find another business.

        • misterprecedent

          It’s NOT more than providing a cake, which is eaten at a reception, not a wedding. It isn’t the bakers’ business who or what the party is celebrating. Jesus celebrated with sinners. The Kleins certainly weren’t following his example.

          When you apply for a business license, you agree to follow the law and serve everyone equally. Your freedom of religion allows you to believe what you wish and practice it as it applies to you personally. It does not allow you to use your beliefs against others. According to the Bible, Jesus doesn’t support that, either.

          • Crono478

            Can you please provide me a verse that show that Jesus celebrated with sinners?

      • Rebel_Lady

        By providing a product for the ceremony, they are participating. They should not be forced to go against the dictates of their conscience. That is clear in Oregon’s constitution as well as other state constitutions. We all know that religion is supposed to be protected by the US Constitution as well, but it has been a long time since the powers that be even recognized that as a governing document.

        • uzza

          Then they shouldn’t be in a business that requires them to participate.

          • Rebel_Lady

            Their business doesn’t require them to participate. They shouldn’t be told with whom they have to do business. The government has no business telling a company what services to provide and they shouldn’t keep a business from choosing what people to serve.

          • gods need not apply

            Only that’s exactly one of the roles of government: To provide ALL citizens with the support to not have their INDIVIDUAL rights trampled. That is why the homosexual couple trumps the business. Businesses can’t have beliefs. Business can’t have rights. Businesses are not people.

          • Rebel_Lady

            People in the businesses have beliefs.

    • uzza

      That’s right. Dueteronomy tells me to kill those of other faiths. I should not be forced to let Christians live. Thank you for your support.

  • grace4given

    This couple is richer than all these bitter and dysfunctional homosexuals put together. They have what these people will never have. Character, TRUE peace of mind, full salvation, life eternal, fruits of the spirit, a world family of fellow believers, God’s favor and blessings. I gave a large sum to Samaritan’s Purse because they deserve to be helped. But, I pray their hope is ONLY in Jesus Christ, as i believe it is.

    • mark

      I was discriminated against last night, can you donate to my gofundme please?

  • Trollio

    How did the prohibition upon government against preventing the free exercise of religion become license to use the government to sue someone who exercises that freedom? When did the offer to perform a non-essential service become a requirement to preform that service for everyone, indiscriminately? If someone goes to a gay black baker and asks for a cake for a Klan based wedding, can he sue when the baker refuses to make the cake? Why not? The Klan, while stupid, is not illegal. If they aren’t also protected, doesn’t the law run afoul of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment by treating different classes unequally? Or are only sexual deviants allowed to sue people of faith?

    • gods need not apply

      I find your example amusing. I don’t have any intimate knowledge of the klan, but I’m pretty sure they would never have chosen a gay or black, and definitely not both, baker. Had they, then yes they would be justified in suing said gay, black baker.

      Edit: The fact that the couple had bought from the baker before undermines the baker refusing to service the ceremony.

  • PastorDwayne Gobin

    I praise God for Samaritan Purse! Thank you Lord for being with the Klein’s.

  • Brenda Golden

    What a load of bovine fertilizer. This was not about discrimination it was about getting a christian couple punished for not goose stepping to the queer tune. It was about forcing them out of business by taking what little money they have. The judge that heard this case is full of shit. Their list of injuries are so stupid but only in the libtard state of OR is the thinning of your rug or having a patchy rug a reason to take someone else money. I hope they are blessed with everything they deserve.

    • misterprecedent

      Funny that they could have simply baked a cake, just like they did for thousands of other sinners without a care about what the Bible says, and prevented the whole thing. Something is definitely fishy about the Kleins, and it’s not related to Jesus, who preferred the company of sinners.

  • TheTrue Pooka

    Justice is served.

  • BlueEyes

    Lisa Watson has to be one of the unhappiest people around to stop this. She is hateful and arrogant. All we can do for people like her is to pray for her. She is so lost and heading for hell. Her and all her ‘friends’ are lost and serving the devil.

    • misterprecedent

      That you condone ‘hell’ (and worship any evil being who would create such a concentration camp and send people there to be tortured for eternity for having the ‘wrong’ beliefs) says more about you than it does about her. Maybe you could pray that God somehow acquires enough power to eliminate Satan or render him powerless so you won’t feel so drawn to him?

  • David Rice

    Excellent. Hate and bigotry should not be funded, even by idiots. These clowns call themselves “Christians” but they refuse to follow the teachings of Jesus.

    • mark

      Yeah, talk about dishing it but not being able to take it

  • http://www.splinterslair.com splinter48708

    Gee…There was no trial by a jury of her peers, This was an ALJ Decision plain and simple and to me, is not the same as a criminal or civil trial where the plaintiffs would have to prove beyond a (reasonable) doubt that they suffered all those “injuries”. The hearing that was held to determine “guilt” was a sham when all those “injuries” were listed. Any reasonable for-real court of law would have said, “Where’s the proof of all these injuries you claim to have suffered? You have not proven to me that these injuries elevate this case to an actionable offense. I am granting the defense motion to dismiss all charges. Court is adjourned.” That right there would make so many heads explode that a mop would not even begin to clean the mess.

  • BRush

    the law – it is some whacky belief system of homosexual gestapo that had their friends find “guilty” . and for a 50$ cake – the so called “judge” levies this unjust fine .

  • Willebbacon

    I will no longer support any Go Fund Me projects. This is B.S. All lesbians, gays, atheists and other minorities think that they are supreme (god) and that everyone should be as sick minded as they are. Hell is going to be full my friends, good thing you don’t believe in it.

    • misterprecedent

      Interesting, because I’d consider worshiping a bloodthirsty Jesus-God who drowned, slaughtered and tortured millions; and repeatedly commanded his followers to kidnap, rape and kill others; and created a concentration camp for the purpose of eternally torturing people with the ‘wrong’ beliefs; and who sent his kid to be brutally beaten and executed, to be the definition of “sick”. Atheism and homosexuality seem comparatively loving and harmless. To each his own.

  • Willebbacon

    Rae Nichelle-Peres What about the gay bakery in Florida who wouldn’t make a cake for a christian? That’s OK though, Right??

  • Maharb

    haha typical Conservative rhetoric.

    Ignores the fact that this couple were found guilty of discrimination, tried to raise money against the sites terms and conditions to pay their fine.

    Changes the topic of conversation to how hard done by Christians are because they’re previously unchallenged tirade of bigotry and homophobia is perhaps coming to end as the rest of world outgrows their immature, fear based rhetorics.

    • Maharb

      Just before ya’ll threaten me, telling me that I will be sorry for mocking God when I finally stand before him.

      I do indeed believe in a God, however Jesus was a semite who lived in the desert, I can guarantee he didn’t have white skin and thought American conservatives should be able to do whatever they want, whenever they want, just by virtue of being more Godly than everyone else.

      False idols much? You too shall stand before God. You explain to Jesus, a boddhisatva, a man of peace of love, how exactly you justify using his name to perpetuate the many bigotries, wars and atrocities inflicted upon man kind by the political and religious empires that you financially support?

  • TheBBP

    This couple will get the help that people want to give them one way or another. GFM just outed themselves as another arm of the Gaystappo.

    • misterprecedent

      Jesus didn’t appreciate those who mixed money with religion. Maybe you should rethink exactly whom it is you’re following.

      • TheBBP

        LOL, dang. That is a lot of twisting that you are doing to keep your agenda up.

  • Josey

    According to the Daily Signal, the two women, who have been identified
    as Rachel Cryer and Laurel Bowman, submitted individual lists of just
    under 100 aspects of suffering in order to receive the damages. They
    included “mental rape,” “distrust of men,” “distrust of former friends,”
    “discomfort,” “high blood pressure,” “impaired digestion,” “loss of
    appetite,” “migraine headaches,” “loss of pride,” “resumption of smoking
    habit,” “shock” “stunned,” “surprise,” “uncertainty,” “weight gain” and
    “worry.”

    Really, being denied a wedding cake caused all of those things, give me a break and go find another cake baker who is willing to participate in your same sex unholy union. That judge ought to be ashamed of himself for awarding anything, it’s ridiculous and frivolous to make this couple pay anything to these people. This had nothing to do with denying a cake for sexual orientation as the couple never refused serving homosexuals, they had an issue with participating in a “homosexual wedding” in which bakers deliver the cake and usually serve it at ceremonies, they should appeal this ridiculous ruling.

  • Mary Jensen

    Pick on Christians but afraid to pick on Muslim bakeries!

    • gods need not apply

      Yet no muslim bakeries have been denying service to paying customers. I’m sure FOX news would be sure to get coverage of that story.

  • UmustBKiddinMe

    “The GoFundMe account that was set up to help our family was shut down by the administrators of GoFundMe because they claimed it was raising money for an illegal purpose,”

    No. That is false. It was shut down because it violated their terms and conditions. How ironic that these folks are fighting to run their business as they want, but then are decrying GoFundMe for doing the same.

    ““I have customers come in almost on a weekly basis that are homosexual,” he said. “They can buy my stuff. I sell stuff. I talk with them. That’s fine. … This was not the first time we’ve served these girls.””

    Given that the relevant “sin” in the bible is two people of the same gender having sexual relations, how would serving them items other than a wedding cake be different than providing them with a wedding cake? The Bible does not say that it is a sin for two people of the same gender to enter into a civil marriage.

    Are the Kleins turning down heterosexual weddings if one or both of the couple have been divorced for reasons other than adultery? Are they turning away a baby shower cake if the mother is not married? Are they turning away an engagement party cake if the couple are having sexual relations?

    • gods need not apply

      I enjoy reading your comments. You are saying what I am thinking, only better 🙂

      • UmustBKiddinMe

        Thank you!

  • undertow9x

    Look Sweet Cakes broke the law. Plain and simple. They deserve everything that is happening to them. YOU DO NOT GET TO TREAT PEOPLE CRAP BECAUSE OF YOUR BELIEFS? Also everyone who supports sweet cakes religious freedom I have to ask you. Would you support sweet cakes if it was run by atheist and they didn’t make cake for a Christian? If you say yes you are lying. If you say no then you are a hypocrite. All of you bigoted Christians are on the wrong side of history. 50 to 100 years schools will teach the kids of the future about you. They will laugh and be appalled just like we did when we learned about the civil rights days.

  • farkward B

    Shame on the courts,, they offer NO JUSTICE, they do allow homos and liberals tho.

    • gods need not apply

      This was exact justice. The Kleins broke the law. The judge ruled that they broke the law. How is it not justice?

      • farkward B

        It was a GAYSTAPO move, haha those pesky homos are serious haters

  • NavinJay

    A crime is not a crime if it’s done for “deeply held religious beliefs”…like when people refuse medical treatment for their children and let them die while they pray in a corner for help.

  • JDRedneck

    At what point does one persons rights trump those of someone else, making their existance more important which makes the phrase ‘all people are created equal’ a nonexistant point.

    • misterprecedent

      When you apply for a business license, you agree to serve everyone equally, as per the law. The bakery broke the law.

  • Susan Toler

    I will not even go to a go find me page now. And I hope that my Christian friends will find an alternative to that page for raising money. Their main purpose is not to support families in real need because some loud mouth Christian hater didn’t like it. They need to be shut down themselves. I hope this Christian family rises far above this criminal act by the government and surpasses everyone involved. It would be something if all those involved in this would grab a Bible or have a soul winner talk to them and they get Saved. After all a couple just said that they had different standards and got attacked by those who claim to be loving and peaceful, just shows that non biblical people take it all the way. Good luck to the Klein family. May you become billionaires in this world today.

    • misterprecedent

      Right, because Jesus loves it when you try to profit using religion.

      The bakers behaved unlike Jesus when they shunned sinners. Then they violated the law. Then they violated the GoFundMe terms of service. Being Christian doesn’t render you immune to the rules or law.

      It’s so obvious when “Christians” follow church or political propaganda rather than Jesus or the Bible.

  • Gregg Park

    The scumbag plaintiffs could have just gone to Cupcake Jones but that wouldn’t have paid as well. I have no problem at all with gay marriage, but I have a huge problem with the government telling a private business that they must violate their deeply held religious beliefs.

    • gods need not apply

      Businesses can’t have beliefs. That is what the law is all about. The owners are allowed to not associate with people they deem sinners in their private life, but they opened a business that provides a service to the public and discriminating based on your religious beliefs tramples the customer’s rights.

  • ScottInClearwater

    What an irony that it’s “Samaritan’s Purse” that stepped forward since neither the Kleins nor Franklin Graham have a clue what it means to be a Good Samaritan.

  • meme

    Must be a gay judge. This probably goes down as one of the most injust, riduculous and biased cases I have ever read. If this had been a Muslim bakery, that judge would not have done a thing!!!

    • gods need not apply

      Yet no muslim bakeries have been denying service to paying customers. I’m sure FOX news would be sure to get coverage of that story. What this family did was just as illegal as the faith healing believers in Pennsylvania jailed after their second child died needlessly. When will zealots learn that “because it’s what I believe” is not a valid excuse for trampling another’s rights in this country?

      • meme

        Not the same at all. Not even close. They didn’t endanger anyone. They did not force their belief on anyone. They simply refused to do something that they felt was a violation of their principles . As a Christian I have no problem myself with baking their cake. Everyone has different personal feelings, but if this couple feels it goes against their conscious then none should expect them to do so!! The whole thing was media promoted and all about money. It just brought out all the haters. That couple did nothing wrong. Had it been me, I’d have shaken the dust off my feet and found another bakery. The Accusations and award is ludicrous and unfair to that business owner.

        • gods need not apply

          They are allowed their personal beliefs, but once you open a business to the public you must be governed and abide by public rules (law of the land). Maybe Rosa Parks should have just found another bus?

        • misterprecedent

          If a baker’s personal issues prevent him from following the law, he is free to not apply for a business license.

    • UmustBKiddinMe

      “This probably goes down as one of the most injust, riduculous and biased cases I have ever read.”

      How so?

      “If this had been a Muslim bakery, that judge would not have done a thing!!!”

      What is your basis for that statement?

    • misterprecedent

      They broke the law. The evidence proved they did it. They will pay the consequences of breaking the law. The judge doesn’t get to pick and choose which laws to enforce the way the bakers are picking and choosing which Bible verses to follow.

      You and militant Muslims agree on this issue and they are, no doubt, proud to have your support. If a Muslim broke the law that he agreed to follow when he applied for a business license, he would lose his business, too.

      • meme

        Dont go name calling. and your comparison of me to a militant muslim is pretty darned off the wall and shocking, but I will chalk it up to your hatred, for that is what I am seeing in you. I owned one of the largest manufacturing businesses in our state for several years and we had the smoothest running, most respectful of each other atmosphere one could have.We had gay people, different races and never had one single incident of anyone being disrespected. But, you know why? Because is was MUTUAL respect. Example: Had a gay employee discovered they were asking something of someone that would offend them, they would have just had the mutual respect not to do so. But then, we had all good people working for us. In the case of these two betrothed women who were not hurt in any way ( I repeat, NOT HURT in any way),and all that junk their lawyer made up was just a bunch of junk, I see no laws broken. I see a couple of haters bent on getting attention and MONEY( M_O_N_E_Y) at the expense of a couple who did nothing but decline making a cake. And for that, this couple lose 130,000-? I don’t think so .Wish I could make that cake for them.

  • AnneM040359

    God Bless this Christian family!

  • AnneM040359

    All this based on a “sinful lifestyle choice.”

  • okamitora

    If the lesbian couple in question can truly be so traumatized just by having someone politely tell them, “no,” then they need to be locked in padded white rooms for the rest of their lives.

    They just outright lied, and fabricated this supposed “traumatic stress,” and played the victim, while the bakers lost their business, one they literally built up from nothing, because people harassed their vendors like the mafia. This ridiculous fine is aimed to destroy their children’s future, and make these bakers starve on the street. It’s petty, vindictive malice dressed up as discrimination.

    How this absurdity reached even the Supreme Court without the lesbians being outright charged with perjury, I will never know.

    Of course, if they ever set foot in the Middle East, ISIS would torture and murder them. Yeah, they have it soooo bad here in America!

    • misterprecedent

      The bakers agreed to obey the law when they applied for a business license. They broke the law.

      They willingly chose to ignore the Bible when it was profitable to serve thousands of other sinners, and lied about following Jesus (who preferred serving sinners) when it came to serving people they chose to hate. They deserve to lose their business and pay the consequences of breaking the law. If their children suffer for their actions, it is entirely their fault

      Your beliefs mirror those of militant Muslims. Satan is proud of you.

      • okamitora

        Actually, Satan’s proud of people who demand conformity, like you, you Muslim in disguise.

        See? I can insult you too! And spout stuff about Muslims and Satan! Ooooh! I must be morally and intellectually superior!

        Just to make sure, as I snicker at you, you CAN tell when someone is being sarcastic, yes?

        Moving on, and more seriously:
        1) The bakers did not know there was a law requiring them to serve any customer no matter the circumstances, so, no, they deserve no such thing as has been done to them by these petty, vindictive liars.
        2) The bakers did not judge the lesbian couple, or beat them, or kill them, or march into their wedding waving flaming crosses and spouting about eternal damnation. They were firm, but polite. So, no they do not deserve any self-righteous judgment from hypocrites who proclaim freedom while demanding conformity.
        3) If you and a man bump into each other, and he says sorry and moves on, this is like you hunting down his friends, family, and coworkers to stalk and harass, hacking his accounts for all of his money, stealing his identity to put him into tremendous debt, giving him a criminal record, Photoshopping his face into pornographic images, burning down his home, and burning him alive. This barbaric response is so disproportionate in its absurdity that it’s imbecilic. You know what it reminds me of? What radical Islamic terrorism would be if it were muzzled.
        4) Speaking of, I repeat: if these lesbians ever crossed paths with someone who really meant to harm them, they would die horribly, and their murderers would sleep well that night. As opposed to some harmless bakers who just gave them a polite refusal. Yet they act like the bakers tried to freaking kill them. I also repeat: if they can possibly be so scarred by a simple “no” that they fall victim to the things they say, then the are already so mentally unstable that they MUST be locked up in padded white rooms for their own protection and that of everyone around them. As such is most certainly not the case, they just need to be locked up, for the protection of everyone around them. Or at least fined for everything they’ve cost the bakers.
        5) How do you dare presume anything about what the bakers believe and what they know about their other customers? Rank arrogance, that.
        6) Wonderful thing about America: we can change our laws, so everything unconstitutional, such as the persecutions of religious people in a land where we are guaranteed freedom of religion, become properly punishable. Every homosexual who is truly for freedom, equality, and tolerance will have a place in such a society, alongside everyone else. Those who are not, those who are like these two lesbians who are trying to metaphorically nuke the bakers over one single cake, will not. After all, they’ve committed perjury. A far worse violation of our current laws than simply refusing to bake a cake.
        7) Grow up. Start learning what freedom, equality, and tolerance are. Once you do, you’ll wish you could travel back in time just so you could smack your current self.

  • Jimmy v

    Isn’t this TRULY strange? G0-Fund-Me takes a MORAL STAND against facilitating fundraising for the fine that the Klein’s received . . . . for what? TAKING A MORAL STAND ! ! Sometimes you just can’t believe the irony and hypocrisy that the left unashamedly exhibits to us ! !

    • misterprecedent

      Go Fund Me didn’t break the law. The bakery did.

      Jesus regularly celebrated and dined with sinners. The bakery certainly wasn’t following his example.

  • James W.

    hope they kept the emails, and any threatening phone calls or notes and sue everyone.
    i find it disgusting to know that a competitor is working against them in order to put them out of business. lets hope her business suffers, too

    • gods need not apply

      Very christian of you!

  • http://user.drunkduck.com/dumok dumok

    You could have avoided this whole mess, just by baking a cake just like you did for divorced people and Gluttons.

  • Carole Knopnsyder

    I will never go to ‘Go Fund Me’ NEVER.. and thank you Rev. Graham, you are truly a man of God…May he Bless the Klines and you…

  • cracker

    may god forgive us all!

  • Edgar Filings

    They need to set up the site to benefit “the family of…” They have set the precedent of allowing these (one example I can think of is Eric Garner) at GoFundMe, so if they’re sincere in their objections, they’d allow the family of the “criminals” to benefit.

  • mearcatt

    religion completely aside, the whole concept of suing for “emotional” damage is ridiculous.

  • jm

    Gutless. Wish one of these queer vigilantes would try this at a muslim bakery. We would find out real fast who our government and DOJ stand behind

    • glebealyth

      Why don’t you don the armour of god and go to a Muslim bakery and show us how it’s done?

    • misterprecedent

      How does it feel to share beliefs with militant Muslims on this issue?

  • meme

    And yes there wAs a televised interview with several Muslim businesses who when put on the spot in situations asking them to make that cake if they knew it was for a gay couple said clearly they would not put words on the cake that referenced a gay Union and because it was against their religion!!!not sure which show but I do know that Mandy others take issue with doing things they feel are against their beliefs. People need to learn to respect others and this gay couple took advantage . From what I remember reading there was one who giggled and said ” two brides”. She giggles and that is mocking in my opinion. Ok for her but not ok for the owners huh?

    • Hope

      “the muslims can be jerks! we want to be jerks too!”

      pathetic.

  • ozlanthos

    The First Amendment protects speech. While I recognize the baker’s right not to bake a cake for someone they didn’t want to bake a cake for, the court felt otherwise. The thing to do is sell the business, pay the fine, and start over. That is the kind of thing christian society would have the gays, stoners, and anyone else they consider worthy of entirely baseless judgement do. I hate justifying anything like that, but honestly I have lived with christians insisting on judging me as being “less than” all my life, as such, I can’t feel too bad about it when trying to do that to someone else back-fires in their faces….Kinda sucks when the shoe is on the other foot doesn’t it?

    -Oz

    • Hope

      Well, now that they’re getting equal treatment (instead of being able to run roughshod over the portion of the population who does not bow to the exact same invisible friend as they do), they’re whining about being oppressed.

  • Nicholas Moore

    Hahahaha!

    Serves them right!

    Couple of scumbags.

  • Doug

    I’m shocked that people think they should be able to base service discrimination on religious belief and not see a DIRECT legal parallel to the civil rights movement, women’s suffrage, etc. You’re on the wrong side of history people- quit hiding your bigotry behind a book and realize that love is love.

  • misterprecedent

    Does the bakery refuse to assist ALL sinners or are they picking and choosing specific ones?

  • Dave The Happy Singer

    Well done to GoFundMe for standing up to these vile homophobes.

  • Theospeak1

    Go to their company page on Facebook and tell them what you think of this move in no uncertain terms.

  • prpetty

    Just curious, how can they suffer ‘loss of appetite’ and ‘weight gain’ at the same time?

    • Hope

      You’re not really up to speed on how the metabolism is affected by stress and diet, are you?

  • misterprecedent

    Do you recall was Jesus’ reaction was to people using his temple to make money? Are you certain that Satan is not behind this? The love of money is the root of all evil. Who are you really serving?

  • misterprecedent

    Matthew 21:12-13 “And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.”

  • [email protected]

    I can only pray that this bakery will filly stand the test that they are facing for their True, moral and ethical rights to refuse to be forced to serve that which they believe is immoral based on sound biblical beliefs. Enough is enough with this agenda being forced down our throats, or we have to pay financially to not accepting them and their wicked lifestyles, enough!!!! I am grateful to this company for standing up ad saying NO! I hope other companys will do the same and begin to turn the tide.

  • Becca Corley

    That’s okay guys heres what you do. Write a ebook on baking or cake decorating and sell it. You are alreadu thrust into the spotlight, everyone knows who you are, so capitalize on your fame not your “crime” (and yes we all know you were doing the right thing). Selling ebooks is completely leagal commerce. Just plaster it all over facebook that you are the couple selling this ebook, and the next thing you know, you will have your help and the courts can’t say boo about it.

  • Becca Corley

    That’s okay guys heres what you do. Write a ebook on baking or cake decorating and sell it. You are alreadu thrust into the spotlight, everyone knows who you are, so capitalize on your fame not your “crime” (and yes we all know you were doing the right thing). Selling ebooks is completely leagal commerce. Just plaster it all over facebook that you are the couple selling this ebook, and the next thing you know, you will have your help and the courts can’t say boo about it.

  • 441019

    When lesbians (or homosexual men) go to a bakery run by Christians, they know that asking them to bake a cake for a gay marriage is against the beliefs of the bakery owners, and they know they’ll be turned down. They are probably looking for an excuse to file a lawsuit.

  • http://hosannahighertech.co.tz/blog Stefano D. Mtangoo

    Time for Christians to have their own fundraising mechanism!

  • Jean Terrill Cravens

    why can Hobby Lobby get away with not providing birthcontrol and this bakery being told it is against the rules for them to not bake wedding cakes for same sex marriages? Why didnt the couple just go to another bakery,instead of making a business close ? I am against same sex marriages and I probably would refuse to bake the cake also.It would be my business to not do so,just like signs in other business that say they have the right to refuse someone.It’s not like there wasnt other bakeries in the same town.

  • Candyapple!

    “These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

    Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25″For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.”

  • Deborah F Titus

    I still back the purpose of the Sweet Cakes by Melissa owned by Aaron and Melissa Klein as the Christian couple living out their biblical stand. I read the Book of Proverbs Chapter Twenty-Eight (Ch. 28th) verse Eight (8th) saying, “He (the perverted couple or partners) that by usury (treasure coffer) and unjust (treating the one with one’s belief differently from another of the different belief) gain increaseth his (the perverted couple or partners) substance (possessions after being unfairly robbed or snatched), he (the perverted couple or partners) shall gather it (whatever being unfairly robbed or snatched) for him (the perverted couple or partners) that will pity (look down in disdain, pull down one’s joy, peace, success or achievement) the poor(the one whose joy, peace, success or achievement has been illegally thrashed, removed, lost as well as one’s financial health being drastically dwindled or forced to dump in favor of the unrighteous profiteers). I have you, the Klein couple and their five children in my earnest prayer basket in the name of Jesus The Anointed One.

  • Larry Wilson

    Who was guilty of Discrimination? The couple wanted to stay with their beliefs and the court ordered them to not keeps their beliefs and agree to something to don’t believe! Where is this so called freedom of religion? There is now now…..you MUST believe what they order you to believe! Discrimination is not a way way street as the courts seem the think. No Matter what….a court can Not tell you what you HAVE to think!

  • dorothypearce

    Christians really should not be required to help celebrate a ceremony where two people stand in God’s face and blow him off as irrelevant. We revere and love God and cannot be part of such blatant disrespect. Marriage is sacred to us, a covenant between a man and a woman and God.

  • what a crime

    Mental rape…what a joke term! I find it illegal to stop someone from their means to raise money legally a real crime!

  • what a crime

    This trial should have been a mistrial! The couples religious beliefs were violated too. As this is not the only cake store in town…they could go to another shop to get service. Many stores and restaurants have signs that say, “We reserve the right to refuse service”, no one seems to be bothering them??

  • Bella

    What a witch hunt. So ridiculous omg can’t believe what this country has become.

  • Brian C

    its all abaout the money, if it isnt about the money then dont accept the money then ill believe it not about the money

  • http://beautifulmess.elementfx.com/ Julie Waters

    Your beliefs are your beliefs, but saying you would not bake a cake for a gay couple because it wasn’t something you could participate in? I don’t get it. You bake cakes for a living and this couple wanted a cake, so yes this was something you could participate in. Just bake the cake, drop it off at the venue, take your money and leave.

  • NaMoNai

    It’s not only about the money.

    Sometimes it’s about power.

    And sometimes it’s just plain old malice.

  • NaMoNai

    Also:

    I’ve always been a pretty much live and let live sort of character. And when the subject of h0m0s comes up I’ve tended to think in terms of stand-up guys like Alan Turing (code buster hero of WWII) and Dolce and Gabana (fashion designers) who just announced publicly in favor of normal marriage as a sacrament. Or I might think of the various harmless oddballs I’ve met in the course of work here and there.

    But these LGBT-ABCD fascist attack dogs have inspired me to reconsider my position. Maybe the admirable or at least half-way tolerable h0m0s are a tiny minority of non-extremists. And maybe the big majority of standard issue h0m0s really do have something evil about them.

    It could be that I’ve been handing out too many benefits of too many doubts all this time. Perhaps it’s time to reverse my expectations, and settle in with the idea that most of the time, if I meet a h0m0, they are more likely than not to be a completely execrable louse, and not somebody to be trusted. A sort of guilty until proven not to stink on ice sort of approach.

  • Dee Vidore

    What they don’t tell you is that the Kleins posted the lesbian couples’ contact details on Facebook, which resulted in a stream of death threats from good Christians everywhere. Shame on all of you!

  • angie

    they shut this down, but they allow for entitled freeloaders to ask for funding for their vacations and cars…this world is weird.

  • Joshua Shackelford

    …..mental rape……seriously….so instead of useing common sense and going somewhere else to get a cake you get mental rape anyone else smell bull shit….

  • Matt

    Pay the fine and move on, don’t get others to pay if for you if you’re so interested in discriminating in the name of your convenient excuse. er I mean religion.

  • angie

    i don’t get the whole “tolerance” thing. people who demand and preach tolerance the loudest are the most intolerant of all. why do people HAVE to agree with homosexuality?

    remember a few weeks ago when dolce and gabbana said they disagreed with gay marriage and elton john called on the world to boycott them because they were intolerant? why do i have to be tolerant of your beliefs and not you of mine?

  • Cyndi Jones McLaughlin

    I would really like to see them appeal this decision.

  • MisterPine

    If selling a gay couple a wedding cake means a “Christian” baker participated in their marriage, does selling a gun to a murderer mean a “Christian” gun store owner participated in the murder?

  • Steve

    Well that does it for me with go fund me. Add them to the list with starbucks. I think i will start a boycott list on all these liberal “progressive” politically correct intolerant businesses kissing up to the agenda. I have to laugh at them because another site went up that approves of religious choice of faith in practice. There you go – necessity is the mother of invention!

    As far as the first amendment this is going to the supreme court and the liberals are done either way on the issue. If they go against the constitution and rule against christians it applies to their islamic brothers too who can also be sued. That will be fun to watch them have to disagree and fine the islamists if it comes to that and i’m sure we’ll see the tolerance of that mob to any gay cake requests! Maybe they’ll have to call in the national guard!

    All this thanks to the “progressives”!

  • Kimbo

    As with many articles I’ve been reading, this one fails to report about why the couple was awarded money for suffering. The Christian bakery owners were angry about the initial complaint (which was only for illegal discrimination, It’s against the law), so they publicly posted the couples home address and contact information. The bakery owners unleashed a hell of fellow Christians who threatened their lives and the lives of their children. At no time did the bakery owners appeal to their supporters to stop the abuse, though they spent much time in the media talking about themselves. The couple was told their children would have to be removed from the home if they couldn’t protect them. How can you protect yourself from hundreds of strangers who could be anywhere at any moment, wishing you harm?? The bakery tried to rip this family apart, and they have absolutely no remorse. None. What a disgusting display of self righteousness, especially using photos smiling with their family on a fundraising sight knowing full well what they did.

  • Duke BeeKeepers-kid

    No, no he did not get fined for not baking a cake, he got fined for releasing the girls personal phone numbers, address and orchestrating a camping of harassment against them to the point the had to move and change phone numbers. This SOB is a hate monger who had a vendetta and when anti-christian on the girls.

    the hell with him.

    (read the court documents)

  • BigHobbit

    Well, I suppose that GoFundMe is a business, and can make decisions like this. Still, seems troubling.