Humanities Professor Gives Christian Student Zeroes for Rejecting Anti-Christian Teachings

LewisPOLK COUNTY, Fla. — A Christian student in Florida has obtained legal assistance after her humanities professor gave her four zeroes for refusing to conform to assignments that she believed to be anti-Christian indoctrination.

Grace Lewis, 16, (pictured) is a dual-enrolled student enrolled in a virtual school from home. She has been taking college courses from Polk State College since last fall and has a 3.9 grade point average.

However, Lewis recently was given four straight zeros in her humanities class by Professor Lance “L.J.” Russum for being unwilling to answer his assignments about Christianity in the way that he wanted—which she believed was antithetical to, and hostile to, the faith.

“[T]he questions assigned are not open-minded questions,” one of the assignments explained. “They instead are designed to lead course participants decisively to accept that Christianity is false and oppressive of women.”

Other assignments asked students to outline Protestant reformer Martin Luther’s work as a “humanist,” and other asserted that the sculptures and paintings of the Roman Catholic artist Michelangelo suggested that a “same-sex relationship is not a sin and will not keep someone out of Heaven.”

“What you must write about: 1. Luther as a humanist 2. Luther’s reformation as political. 3. How Luther embraces the peasants and then abandons them when it gets to difficult for him,” one paper read. “Describe how his reformation is a political act one that expands humanism and draws us away from the mythos that seeks to punish unbelief.”

“We have much to thank of humans like Michelangelo who took a sacred space, a temple to God, and made it a human space, a space where humanism can meet with God and discourse,” another assignment outlined. “Finally humanity and the gods are on equal footing and that is what the myths of Hercules, Apollo and Jesus are all about—the divine becoming human and human being divine.”

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Because Lewis’ essays were unsatisfactory to Russum in that she could not agree with the material she was being taught, she was given zeroes. She then contacted her professor to express concern out of her belief that her faith was being targeted.

“This course in no way is a challenge to anyone religious ‘faith’ because it never addresses religion from the standpoint of faith, only from philosophical/political/historical perspectives,” Rossum responded. “What you hold as a faith system is your personal belief about the gods and goddesses.”

“When you write from a faith position your writing is contrary to the BCI (Basic Course Information Catalog),” he continued. “The BCI is what I am obligated to grade you on. Your answers make it impossible for me to grade when you refuse to follow the course objectives.”

Lewis’ parents also contacted Dean Donald Painter, who reviewed the matter but said that he found the assignments to be “appropriate based on the course description and learning outcomes.”

Lewis then contacted the Christian legal organization Liberty Counsel for assistance, which requested an investigation into Russum as well as an apology and an assurance that Christians will not be discriminated against in his class in the future.

But Polk State University is reportedly continuing to defend Russum. An attorney for the university states that other academic officials reviewed Lewis’ work and agreed that she was wrong in not going along with what being asked for in the assignments and instead defended her Christian beliefs.

“The overall fallacy of your position rests singly on the premise that an instructor should not require a student to consider, discuss or present arguments that are contrary to his/her personal beliefs,” a response to Liberty Counsel from the law firm, Boswell and Dunlap of Bartow reads. “Such a position shows apparent ignorance of long-standing academic practice.”

Liberty Counsel, however, believes that it is rather the university that is wrong in punishing Lewis for not conforming to anti-Christian ideas.

“She simply was being belittled because this person is a militant atheist intent on destroying her faith,” Staver told Fox & Friends on Thursday, adding that he believes Russum is “proselytizing militant atheism” in the classroom.

Photo: Fox & Friends


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  • Tara

    of course that’s what he’s doing. The very thing people like him accuse Christians of doing – forcing their beliefs onto others. Imagine. When he uses a classroom to force his beliefs onto students; even unknowingly to many of them. I would say that’s a sneaky way to force one’s beliefs onto others, but then, I’m a Christian, and believe in God, and people like this intolerant prof think we don’t have opinions. Pffft. Smh……

  • Julie Vanholstyn

    christians need to SUE SUE SUE – stop being walked over

    • Greg Sandhurst

      I can just hear Jesus chanting alongside you now

      • Yeah

        Actually, Jesus says to love your enemies… Yes, even if we are persecuted, we are to pray for our enemy, not persecute them back. God will handle that.

        “”But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40″If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. 41″Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.”

        “Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.”

        ““You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

        • Greg Sandhurst

          You caught my sarcasm. I applaud you.

      • D.Kermott

        Jesus called the religious leaders of his day hypocrites, whitewashed sepulchres full of dead men’s bones.
        He also turned over tables of the people that preyed upon the devout.
        Jesus said to obey the law. Taking someone to court is following law abiding actions. Julie is right — on both a legal and Biblical standpoint.

        • Paul Hiett

          Julie is far from being right in anything on this subject. Like her, I would bet you also didn’t read the assignment that was linked. IN no way did the assignment infringe upon her belief system.

  • gregkliebigsr

    I challenge ANYBODY and EVERYBODY (ON THIS HERE PLANET) TO SHOW ME ANYTHING MORE DRAMATIC, THAN THE DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION OF THE LORD AND GOD,

    JESUS THE CHRIST GOD’S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON!!

    JESUS THE CHRIST WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WHOLE WORLD !!

    HEY, allah what have you done, humm? HEY, buddha what have you done, humm? HEY, all you gods of the hindu religion what have ya’ll done, humm?

    YOU FALSE gods AIN’T DONE NOTHING!! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BUT BROUGHT CONFUSION AND DISCORD INTO HUMANITY!!

    AND , and, all that idiot satan has done is use the afore mentioned false gods to bring STRIFE and UNBELIEF to humanity?

    • Greg Sandhurst

      Well this is pretty dramatic, you’re definitely giving him a run for his money.

      Oh also, you worship Allah as well. It’s the same God; the muslim God isn’t named Allah, Allah is the muslim word for God. It just means “God” in a different language. Judaism/Christianity/Islam – same God.

      • FoJC_Forever

        Not the same God. Muslims worship a demon prince whose false prophet is Muhammad. The Jews are are in unbelief and ignorance, due to them rejecting the Word of God, Jesus (the) Christ, but their historical covenants came from God.

        Christianity and Islam are not compatible in any way, shape, or form.

        • Chris

          You wrote “Muslims worship a demon prince…”

          And your evidence for this is…?

          • FoJC_Forever

            The Word of God, witnessed by His Spirit.

            If you deny the Son, you deny the Father, and cannot receive the Holy Spirit. Father, Son (the living Word of God), Holy Spirit is God. Any religion which does not center on Jesus (the) Christ is antichrist, thus not of God. Islam does not acknowledge Jesus (the) Christ as the Son of God, the Savior promised by God in the Beginning, thus it is antichrist in nature.

            While many false religions can come and go, and are all not of God, the ones which continue through generations have prominent spirits (demons) promoting them and continuing to persuade (tempt) people to follow them. Evil has a hierarchy, a line of authority. Stronger demons control and perpetuate the more prominent false religions. Catholicism pretends to be Christianity. Islam claims to date back to Abraham. Both are false and perpetuated by high ranking demon ‘princes’.

            I refer to the demons which propagate these religions as princes simply as a reference to their position in the hierarchy under Lucifer/Satan/The Devil. The entity they call Allah is simply a demon ‘prince’ empowering them to carry on the false religion.

          • Chris

            So in other words your interpretation of the bible is supported by your interpretation of the bible. Circular arguments are indeed circular.

            The word ‘Allah’ is merely the Arabic word for God. Both Christians and Jews who speak Arabic pray to Allah.

          • FoJC_Forever

            Islam is a false religion which was propagated by a false prophet. Many people who claim to pray to and know God (English spelling) do not pray to Him and do not know Him. They simply practice a false religion based on faulty, human interpretation of the Scriptures. What the word ‘Allah’ means isn’t what makes the actual leader of the religion a demonic ‘prince’. The Devil is also leading those who claim to know Jesus (the) Christ, but manifest demonic power and understanding.

            If you want to believe in Lies, that option is available to you. If you are tired of listening to your own vain imaginations, Jesus (the) Christ is waiting for you to call upon Him for Salvation.

          • Chris

            My own vain imaginations? I’m not the one supporting an interpretation of a book with another interpretation.

            You then write “What the word ‘Allah’ means isn’t what makes the actual leader of the religion a demonic ‘prince’. The Devil is also leading those who claim to know Jesus (the) Christ, but manifest demonic power and understanding.”

            Please provide evidence that a ‘demonic prince’ is the leader of Islam.
            Please provide evidence that demonic powers actually exist.
            And no another interpretation of the bible isn’t evidence.

            As to me calling upon Jesus I already have. He told me not to believe you. So am I to listen to Jesus or you?

          • FoJC_Forever

            Oh, but He did not tell you that. You are listening to a Lie. Ultimately, people are to follow Jesus, not people. But Jesus isn’t telling you that Muslims worship God, that would be the Devil telling you that.

            Like I told the other Unbeliever, I would direct you to the Scriptures for the definitions of what constitutes the demonic, but your mind is dark and your eyes are blind to their meanings. You have to know Jesus to know what His Word means.

          • Chris

            Or the Devil could be telling you that the name Allah is demonic. Since the bible doesn’t mention the Arabic name for God you seem to be just pulling this info out of thin air. And you accuse me of listening to the devil. Project much?

          • FoJC_Forever

            Anyone who denies the Son of God is antichrist. Without the Son, you cannot know the Father. There is only one God, and Muslims do not worship Him. A false spirit has them convinced they are worshiping God. The false spirit is a demon, and a very powerful one, thus I refer to him as a demon prince (simply a hierarchical title).

          • Chris

            You wrote “Anyone who denies the Son of God is antichrist. ”

            That’s NOT what the term ‘antichrist’ means. However if it was it would apply to every single religion in the world except your brand of Christianity. Funny how that works isn’t it?

            You continued “There is only one God, and Muslims do not worship Him.”

            Really? Because they think they are worshipping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. But you obviously know their religion better than they do.

            You continued “A false spirit has them convinced they are worshiping God. The false spirit is a demon, and a very powerful one, thus I refer to him as a demon prince (simply a hierarchical title).”

            And your evidence for this is your Ego?

          • Chris

            That’s not what the word ‘antichrist’ actually means. Strangely the Muslims believe that they are worshiping the Abrahamic God. But then you know their faith better than they do don’t you? Or you could be worshipping your ego and be unable to admit error.

          • FoJC_Forever

            I know what the word antichrist actually means, and have used it properly. 1 John 2:18-25, 1 John 4:2-3, 2 John 1:7.

            Muslims are wrong. Abraham, Isaac (not Ishmael), Jacob who was named Israel by God (not Esau). Muslims deny the Son of God, so they are antichrist. Mohammad/Mohammed was a false prophet.

            I don’t worship my “ego”. Your psych terms have no bearing on Christianity.

          • Chris

            You know what the word ‘antichrist’ means? really? So you understand koinne Greek as well as theology? Or do you just mistake your own interpretation of scripture for scripture itself?

            You then repeat your claims about Muslims and then list patriarchs mentioned in Genesis which have NOTHING to do with Islam and have no evidence for their existence.

            And I wasn’t suggesting that Christianity worshiped its own ego, just you.

            An ego worshipper is someone who cannot even accept the possibility of being wrong. So can you be mistaken about Christian doctrine? Yes or no.

            If yes then your beliefs are just that – beliefs. If no then you are implying infallibility and therefore Godhood. So which will it be? Ego worship or accepting that your beliefs are just beliefs?

          • FoJC_Forever

            Muslims are pagans, like you, and will be cast away into Eternal Damnation if they do not repent of their false religion and follow Jesus.

          • Chris

            You’ve just shown you can’t admit even the possibility of error and therefore are an ego worshipper. That would make you a pagan as well. Not that you’ll ever admit that – you little ego worshipper you. 🙂

          • Chris

            Why didn’t you answer my question? For the record here it is again.

            An ego worshipper is someone who cannot even accept the possibility of being wrong. So can you be mistaken about Christian doctrine? Yes or no.

            If yes then your beliefs are just that – beliefs. If no then you are implying infallibility and therefore Godhood. So which will it be? Ego worship or accepting that your beliefs are just beliefs?

          • FoJC_Forever

            Coming from a pagan (Zoroastrian), thus a lost child of the Devil, your accusational questions mean nothing.

          • Chris

            I notice you refuse to answer my question. Perhaps because your God is your ego and you refuse to admit it.

            As to your insults I forgive you. I hope that one day you can let go the worship of your ego. See ya.

          • FoJC_Forever

            I haven’t sinned against you, so your “forgiveness” is not needed, and, subsequently, not accepted. You are a pagan, a lost child of the Devil. His curse is upon you. If you continue to choose to follow the Devil, you will receive his reward.

          • Chris

            So you don’t think abusing people is offense? Well that explains a lot. For the rest what your ego tells you is irrelevant and of interest only to yourself.

          • FoJC_Forever

            I’m not abusing anyone.

          • Chris

            Thank you for your ego driven pronouncements. I’m sure the universe needed to hear what an infallible God such as yourself has to say but I’m afraid I see little point in you continuing to have a conversation with yourself so I’ll be going. Never mind you don’t need me to be here just keep talking to yourself and you’ll do fine. You’re doing that anyway. Bye.

          • FoJC_Forever

            You said “bye” before, but you came back. Please, make up your mind. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

            You keep stating things about my “ego”, but I don’t have an “ego”. Your descriptive terms of what it is to be human is faulty, from faulty teachers. I am spirit, soul, and body, as God created all humans.

            I worship the only true God and Father of the LORD Jesus (the) Christ, through the power of His Holy Spirit.

            You are a dangerous person. That much I can determine by the way you have addressed me. You’re mentally and verbally abusive to people in the most cunning and destructive ways. I can only pray that no one is forced to be subjected to you on a daily basis.

          • Chris

            Rather than you supporting your interpretation with some more of your interpretations let’s consult a scholar shall we? From the Oxford Companion to the Bible “The prefix ‘anti’ in Greek means “over against”, “instead of” and so may imply usurpation as well as substitution.”

            So where in the Koran does Mohammed speak against Christ? Where does Mohammed declare that He is to replace Christ? Oh and in your reply please quote a Muslim scholar. Don’t just give YOUR interpretation.

          • FoJC_Forever

            I will consult the Holy Spirit, since He is God and knows all things.

          • Chris

            And who decides when the Holy Spirit has contaced you and when it’s just your inability to admit error?

          • Chris

            I noticed that when asked for evidence you didn’t actually provide any, merely more assertions. Why is that?

          • Chris

            Actually history and the historical texts tell me that. You know silly little things like facts.

            I would direct you to the Scriptures where it says you’re wrong, but your mind is dark and your eyes are blind to its meanings. You have to renounce your ego worship to know what His Word means.

          • FoJC_Forever

            You’re simply mimicking what I have written to those who choose unbelief and false religion. Your spin is obvious and your authority is nonexistent. All you’re doing is revealing what you yourself worship – your own ego.

            A false spirit surrounds you and fills your mind with self-importance. Your way is Dark and you choose to reject Truth.

            Judgement is coming.

          • Chris

            The reason I am mimicking you is your ‘arguments are merely unthinking assertions. So I thought I’d just return the favour. You little ego worshipper you. A false spirit surrounds you and fills your mind with self-importance. Your way is Dark and you choose to reject Truth.

            Judgement is coming.

          • Chris

            Well since you’re talking AT me rather than TO me and since you seem to have trouble telling the difference between your Ego and God I thought you’d appreciate being in an echo chamber.

            Allow me a guess. I would say you hate people of other faiths and all of this is merely an expression of that hatred. Am I close?

          • Chris

            The Bible never mentions Muslims. You’d know that if you’d ever read it. Though I’m sure there’s some verse you could rip out of context and claim it is about Muslims…at least you could as long as you don’t actually try to put the verses into their historical and linguistic context. As to your leading of the Holy Spirit how do you know that’s not just your ego? Or are you saying you can infallibly detect the Holy Spirit’s leading? Wouldn’t such infallibility imply that you are God?

          • FoJC_Forever

            Yes, it does, along with many other false and pagan religions. And, yes, I read it all the time.

            If a person knows Jesus (the) Christ, then a person knows the Holy Spirit. Obviously, you do not, so any explanation I give you probably wouldn’t be understood but I’ll try.

            How easy would it be for someone to fool you into believing he or she is your father or mother?

          • Chris

            When I wrote that the Bible never mentions Muslims you replied “Yes, it does, along with many other false and pagan religions. And, yes, I read it all the time.”

            Good then since you know it so well you must have a fair few degrees. After all you must be able to put the Bible into its linguistic, historical & theological context right? Or is your interpretation guided by your ego, prejudice and ignorance?

            You continued “If a person knows Jesus (the) Christ, then a person knows the Holy Spirit. ”

            That must be why there are so many Christian denominations all believing different doctrines. The Holy Spirit must betelling them all different things. Or is it only YOU the Holy Spirit reliably talks too?

            You then asked “How easy would it be for someone to fool you into believing he or she is your father or mother?”

            Given that adoption is a reality if someone turned up with official looking papers I’d say it could be done. More would have to be done than that of course but yeah. It could be done. And your point is?

        • Phipps Mike

          “Christianity and Islam are not compatible in any way, shape, or form.”

          somebody needs to brush up on some facts!!!
          Allah IS the word for God and it IS the same God. “the Abrahamic God”

      • John Lawless

        Islam….kill the infidel: Christianity….love all. Same God…..?

        • weasel1886

          Christians have killed many people that they claimed were infidels. All religious dogma is evil

          • The Last Trump

            And weasels have bitten.
            All weasels therefore are evil and should be aborted in the womb. Those who survive should be made to question their own genders at a very young age and aggressively be encouraged to engage in samesex relationships. Those who refuse in favour of reproductive sexual relationships will be branded as “haters” and harassed daily on Weasel News Networks. No rest shall be given to these homophobic deviants who dare to reproduce!
            Hey! I think I’m catching on to this liberal left way of thinking!

          • MisterPine

            Anyone who points out that Rumpy is full of fertilizer = liberal left.

          • weasel1886

            So you thing all liberals should be killed. I get it now believe are be killed.
            Mirder seems to be a way of getting people to follow your dogma history repeats itself

          • Chris

            Hey I think you’re catching on with responding to stereotypes instead of people.

        • Erockeris

          (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT), (Exodus 22:19 NAB), (Zechariah 13:3 NAB), (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT), (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB), (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT), (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT), (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT), (Romans 1:24-32 NLT), (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT), (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

          Yup same god saying the same stuff.

    • weasel1886

      Buddha is not a god

      • ConcernedCitizen15

        Buddha is just as much a god as Jesus is, and that goes for Hesus, Zeus, Apollo, Horus, etc.

        • Phipps Mike

          Buddha was a REAL man who died as we all do. He is not going to rise from the dead. The kind of person he was is why people look up to him and try to reach “enlightenment”. Buddha cannot be compared to other religions with Gods…etc…

    • UmustBKiddinMe

      “I challenge ANYBODY and EVERYBODY (ON THIS HERE PLANET) TO SHOW ME ANYTHING MORE DRAMATIC, THAN THE DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION OF THE LORD AND GOD,”

      I challenge ANYBODY and EVERYBODY (ON THIS HERE PLANET) TO SHOW ME THAT THE RESURRECTION ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

      • FoJC_Forever

        Your challenge will be answered on one of two occasions. First, when you leave your body (physical death) or Jesus Returns. So, just hold tight, your answer is coming.

        • UmustBKiddinMe

          I anticipate that my body will cease to function before Jesus returns. I also anticipate that I will learn much about God after my body ceases to exist. That would not, however, meet my challenge, as that involves, to paraphrase Greg, ANYBODY and EVERYBODY (ON THIS HERE PLANET) TO SHOW ME THAT THE RESURRECTION ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

          After my body has ceased to function, I will not be learning anything from “anybody and everybody (on this here planet)” about the claimed resurrection of Jesus.

      • D.Kermott

        Would you believe me if I were able to cure a blind or deaf person?
        Would you believe me if I were to raise person dead for 4 days?
        Would you believe me if I were to raise myself from the dead?
        Would you believe if first person witnesses refused to recant and faced gruesome deaths?

        If you will not believe the most accurate historical document ever then would you believe non-christian sources such as Josephus, Flavius, Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny?

        “The resurrection of Christ is better authenticated than most of the facts of ancient history” E.M. Blaiklock – professor of Classics – Auckland University.

        Don’t you think you owe it to yourself to investigate these claims before you dismiss them as fables? I’d start with the book of Matthew. Normally I would recommend only the Bible but there is an excellent book “Evidence that Demands a Verdict” by Josh McDowell.

        “…the resurrection of Jesus Christ is either the most wicked, vicious, heartless hoaxes ever foisted on the minds of human beings — or it is the most remarkable fact of history.” -Josh McDowell

        • Paul Hiett

          The most accurate and historical document ever?

          The fact that the world was never flooded kinda puts a kibosh on that claim.

          • The Last Trump

            Another FACT (!) from the mouth of professor Hiett!
            With absolutely no evidence to support it. Again.
            How you do love to tout your own opinion as fact!
            Google search is your friend Paul. Use it.
            And then explain why all of those fossils of sea life are found on the highest mountain tops of the Earth. Silly fossils! THEY’RE not supposed to be there, now are they Paul? So weird…
            And why EVERY culture has a common flood story.
            Yeah, THAT’s not weird either.
            I suppose next you’ll be telling me that MAGIC created the universe! And then stuff just created itself! JUST BECAUSE!
            Oh wait….NO! You’re kidding, right?

          • Paul Hiett

            Actually, the evidence does support it. The problem is though, you’d have to read something scientific, and we all know you don’t have that ability.

          • MisterPine

            QUOTE SUBMITTED, Rumpy!

          • Chris

            Hi Last Trump.
            You wrote “And then explain why all of those fossils of sea life are found on the highest mountain tops of the Earth.”

            Easy. That portion of the world was underwater before the mountain existed. Then geological forces did the rest. But the question to ask is, do the mountains show any evidence of a flood layer? Answer: No!

            Next you ask “And why EVERY culture has a common flood story.”

            That’s easy. The vast majority of cultures started next to rivers. Rivers flood and so…flood myths develop.

          • D.Kermott

            You must be pretty old to know there was never a world-wide flood. Academia has been explaining away or ignoring the evidence. Read alternative views and you just might expand your mind (without drugs).

          • Paul Hiett

            Let’s throw out all of the scientific proof that shows the world has never been flooded entirely during the period of man (or any other time).

            Can you kindly tell me why other civilizations, such as the Egyptians, don’t record anything regarding such a flood that supposedly wiped them out about 4300 years ago? There are also many other civilizations that show no record of such a flood either, that again, supposedly wiped them all out.

          • D.Kermott

            Sorry Paul, I can tell you want answers. You’re going to have to find them yourself. Happy hunting. I’ll pray for you and your search for meaning in this life.

          • Paul Hiett

            So you can’t explain this glaring discrepancy?

          • http://www.google.com/ Jan van Niekerk

            All but 29% of the world is flooded entirely. The part not flooded is covered in sediment – stuff laid down by water, containing billions of dead things. While that fits a global flood, you could alternatively figure out a way of systematically moving everything into and out of shallow seas that conveniently kill stuff and leave it in sediment that hardens to rock. Maybe time-traveling terraforming creationists did it to confuse you.

      • Jo-Ann R Jarvis

        the tomb is empty and there were many witnesses… it only takes two in a court of law.. The Bible has more printed copies than any other book in HIStory…

        • UmustBKiddinMe

          “the tomb is empty and there were many witnesses”

          So the story goes. Nothing verifiable.

          “it only takes two in a court of law”

          But they are actually there and testifying in person. Unlike stories written in a book.

          “The Bible has more printed copies than any other book in HIStory…”

          How is that relevant?

        • rationalobservations?

          Hearsay – written by anonymous scribes centuries after the events they describe – cannot be considered as witnesses to anything.

          The oldest/first version of the christian bible dates from the late 4th century. It is significantly different in content from later versions and from those many diverse and different versions issued by the diverse and different “Jesus god-man” cults and sects that exist today.

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            That is absolute hogwash,rationalobservations2,and you know it.You know nothing about manuscript transmission and preservation if you actually believe that.Get a clue,dude; a first-year seminary student knows better than that!

          • rationalobservations?

            “Hogwash”?

            Oh the irony of someone who recycles lies and hogwash instead of answering the challenge to produce actual, tangible evidence of the historicity of the diverse and different, slowly evolving tales of a god-man named “Jesus”. Tales that appear for the first time in the 4th century but were further edited, amended, altered and exaggerated for at least another 1000 years.

            Your utter failure to defend or validate your fraudulent religion is noted. Don’t feel too bad abut that my dear delusional friend. No one has ever managed to find a single scrap of authentic, valid and validated evidence that supports your much altered myths and legends of “Jesus”.

            Of course: No “seminary student” is exposed to the utter lack of evidence that supports the hogwash they are fed. I wasn’t and it was only by making a personal and first hand search for that evidence that I discovered there is none…

            It has often been emphasized that Christianity is unlike any other religion, for it stands or falls by certain events which are alleged to have occurred during a short period of time some 20 centuries ago. Those stories are presented in the New Testament, and as new evidence is revealed it will become clear that they do not represent historical realities.

            The original and founding politico-corporate institution of christianity agrees, saying:

            “Our documentary sources of knowledge about the origins of Christianity and its earliest development are chiefly the New Testament Scriptures, the authenticity of which we must, to a great extent, take for granted.”

            (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. iii, p. 712)

            “The Church” makes extraordinary admissions about its New Testament. For example, when discussing the origin of those writings,

            “the most distinguished body of academic opinion ever assembled” (Catholic Encyclopedias, Preface) admits that the Gospels “do not go back to the first century of the Christian era”

            (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. vi, p. 137, pp. 655-6).

            This statement conflicts with priesthood assertions that the earliest Gospels were progressively written during the decades following the death of the Gospel Jesus Christ.

            In a remarkable aside, the Church further admits that,

            “the earliest of the extant manuscripts [of the New Testament], it is true, do not date back beyond the middle of the fourth century AD”

            (Catholic Encyclopedia, op. cit., pp. 656-7).

            That is some 350 years after the time the Church claims that a Jesus Christ walked the sands of Palestine, and here the true story of Christian origins slips into one of the biggest black holes in history. There is, however, a reason why there were no New Testaments until the fourth century: they were not written until then, and here we find evidence of the greatest misrepresentation of all time.

            Now: If you have evidence that contradicts the oldest, wealthiest and most powerful institution and business of christianity. BRING IT ON!

            Since you can’t produce such evidence as none exists. Please quit your blather and recycled lies and propaganda.

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            NOW it’s clear…you believe the Roman Catholic version of ecclesiastical history,not ACTUAL historians…well,shucks,rationalobservations?–no wonder you’re so confused.Go back and look at what actual,accredited,tenured history professors have found inre the firm foundation undergirding authentic Christianity,instead of gulping down stale,discredited speculations,theories,and guesswork(“Jesus Seminar”,anyone?)—Like I said earlier,rationalobservations?,I’m not interested in getting caught up on the going-where”spinning wheel”of dueling scholars; one of the very best books on the history of the Christian Faith(ALL of it,not just Catholicism.),was written by a secular historian,and it was simply titled”The Faith”.He covered many of the issues that you brought up,but he was much more balanced in his approach;your obvious hatred of ALL things Christian makes you barely worth listening to at all? What is your goal,here,anyway? Whatever your endgame is,is it succeeding?

          • rationalobservations?

            Now it is clear that you believe in any [email protected] your religiot masters feed to you.

            I was once as ignorant and gullible as a child. I grew out of that in my early teens and started my personal search for evidence based facts and truth. That quest has lasted for a few decades and taken me around much of this little planet we temporarily despoil before the inevitable extinction of our recently evolved species of creature.

            How about you quit making childish accusations and recycling silly lies and transparent propaganda and DO SOME RESEARCH OF YOUR OWN?

            Rather than offer mere and unsupported denial – how about putting forward an evidence based argument?

            In the mean time you appear to agree there is NO EVIDENCE of the life and exploits of a god-man named “Jesus”? If that is not the case – present your non-biblical (i.e. non apparently fictional) evidence.

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            No…Sorry,rationalobservations?…not gonna do your research for you.The evidence is there,long-established in fact; you’re just so locked in your own worldview and mindset that you’re too intellectually lazy to seek it out.You atheists are the most sad,lazy bunch of so-called”rationalists”on the planet,so enamored of your supposed intellectual prowess that you literally worship your own truncated,cramp,tiny little finite minds and pat yourselves on the back in a virtual orgy of self-congratulations,actually deluded yourselves into thinking that you have it all figured out.Please…get over youselves;it’s pathetic!!

          • rationalobservations?

            No…, Sorry Laurence., I HAVE DONE my research. Exhaustive search and research that has taken me to many lands and to many of the world’s leading libraries and museums.

            You carry ans parade your ignorance like some sort of “badge of honor”!

            You have dismally failed to present any evidence and are everything you wrongly and unjustifiably accuse me of being. A sad lazy deluded ignoramus too lazy to question the [email protected] you recycle and too terrified of the truth to actually search for the historical truth of your childish superstition based fraudulent business of religion.

            Please accept the self evident fact that you have NO evidence to offer for your corrupt religion or your delusional and pitiful condition.

            You cannot avoid the subject or talk your way off of the hook you find yourself impaled upon. If you think that there is any verified and verifiable 1st century originated evidence of the life and times of your apparently fictional “Jesus-boogieman” – present it! Either put up., or shut up. Your whining childish attempt to avoid all issues and pitiful ignorance are contemptible.

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            Well…I guess that says it,huh rationalobservations? We need carry this fruitless dialogue any further.Believe (or not) what you will;I’ve lost interest in your boring diatribes at this point,and can only marvel at your determined intransigence,and pity you.The Christian Faith,for all the admitted faults,shortcomings,failures,and missteps of its adherents throughout the millenia,will NEVER be overthrown,certainly not by the likes of you and those of your ilk,and certainly not as long as JESUS IS LORD.Believe that or not,I simply don’t care.As I said earlier,I have(and will FOREVER remain),a born-again, blood-bought, Spirit-filled child / servant of Almighty God as long as He Is God,and there is NO empty,nihilistic,sad,pathetic arguments ANY atheists,living,dead,or yet to be born you can give that will EVER change that.So…I’m done.Au Revoir,and may the God you don’t believe in bless you!

          • rationalobservations?

            The childish superstition (as Albert Einstein called it) of religion is ridiculous., but rarely boring as a study in peon control, indoctrination, delusion and cognitive dissonance.

            You are predictable in failing to rise to all challenges before cutting and running from the logic and facts that confuse and defeat you.

            However: I’m glad you see the futility of your mere blanket denial.

            Best wishes, kind regards and sincere sympathy to you and yours.

            RO?

          • rationalobservations?

            I didn’t expect you to respond in any rational, logic and evidence supported way, Larry.

            Christians are very scarce in Europe today and getting scarcer in the USA all the time.

            I don’t do anything more than point out the fraudulent nature of the politico-corporate businesses called “christianity” to those poor deluded individuals who remain in thrall to them.

            Thanks for the meaningless “blessing” of you imaginary “god”. I will add it to that of the many thousands of other imaginary “gods”, “goddesses” and “god-men” who’s legends I am familiar with.

            Thankfully the good news of peaceful, loving, humanitarian atheism spreads like wildfire with hardly any help from individual humanitarians like me…..

      • Laurence Charles Ringo

        Hmm…I tell you what,UmustBKiddinMe…Explain the origins of the Christian Church WITHOUT The Resurrection.1,2 3…Go!

        • Jim H

          Christian origins can easily be explained simply by the fact that early Christians believed in the resurrection. That doesn’t mean that belief was a factual one. It wouldn’t matter.

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            That wasn’t the challenge,Jim H…read it again,please…

          • Jim H

            Okay, I’ll play.
            You can’t explain the origins of Christianity without a belief in the resurrection.
            What does what is the point? You can’t explain the origins of Mormonism without the belief that the angel Maroni spoke to Joseph Smith and gave him gold tablets.

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            I’m sorry—what are you talking about,Jim H? My remark was in regards to the bizarre”challenge”posted by UmustBKiddinMe.Since The Resurrection occurred 2,000 years ago and was a one-time event,this strange “challenge”on UmustBKiddinMe’s part is simply nonsensical.I’ve said this before,and obviously it needs repeating: The Christian Church has NO reality outside of The Resurrection of Jesus Christ,PERIOD.It can’t be made any clearer,frankly; to us (Christians),it’s irrelevant whether unbelievers don’t get that; to believers the issue is settled.So…what’s YOUR point? The existence of the Christian Church is the proof that the Resurrection occurred;any honest reading of the Book of Acts makes that abundantly clear; it was what The Apostles preached from the beginning,and no other activities can account for the Church’s origin.Is the definition of”origin”somehow unclear? The Resurrection of Jesus Christ is the unshakable foundation of Christianity,something secular scholars acknowledge and Biblical scholars affirm in no uncertain terms.So…I’m not sure what’s so difficult to understand.—PEACE IN CHRIST.

        • UmustBKiddinMe

          Christ had many followers prior to the story of his death and subsequent resurrection.

    • uzza

      I challenge ANYBODY and EVERYBODY (ON THIS HERE PLANET) TO SHOW ME ANYTHING MORE DRAMATIC, THAN
      THE CAP LOCK KEY!

      • http://www.google.com/ Jan van Niekerk

        ‘sʇǝƃ ʇᴉ sɐ pɐq sɐ sɐʍ SԀ∀Ɔ ʇɥƃnoɥʇ no⅄ ‘sᴉɥʇ ʇɔǝdxǝ ʇou pᴉp no⅄

    • Phipps Mike

      “SHOW ME ANYTHING MORE DRAMATIC, THAN THE DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION OF THE LORD AND GOD,”

      too easy: When God created the heavens and the earth, That is exponentially greater than coming back from the dead.

  • Kenneth Hanson

    My God is the Son, The Father and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

    • Phillip

      Fuck jesus

      • D.Kermott

        Try saying that about Mohammad

      • John Lawless

        Your comment has been saved for future reference……..Jesus

  • j r

    I am not a good Christian (a bit of a confession I guess) but I do not believe that Christians should be belittled for their faith (I whish I had more, working on it). I also do not believe that a professor should jam his radical views down a students throat. This professor is a narcissistic fool. Education is a exercise in informed opinion, often a contest of wills but always a quest for further knowledge gained by studious pursuit not a regurgitation of one personal views. Shame on Polk College for allowing this academic thug to spew his verminous views as fact.

    • Greg Sandhurst

      On the other hand, the situation has apparently been examined by a number of other academic authorities, and they all independently agree with the teacher, so there’s that.

      • Yeah

        On the other hand, what?
        There are other ignorant people who agree with this ignorant professor? Wow, imagine that… Oh, they are “authorities”… that makes their ignorant word law?

        • Greg Sandhurst

          ……yes? That’s how authority and law works. And these are legal professionals. So yes?

          • John Lawless

            The law of the land supported by and argued for can be immoral, unethical, and unfair even if on the books. I remember a group of 57 men who stood up to the unethical law of the land, our country’s forefathers. May God bless this girl and her stance!

          • smhtriple7

            There is no authority above God.

          • rationalobservations?

            The authority originates with the men who invent gods and the men who sell the mythology of gods to the ignorant and the gullible…

        • Paul Hiett

          “Ignorant Professor”.

          That’s so cute…you created your own oxymoron!

      • D.Kermott

        “academic authorities” that have a vested interest in backing up their professor. They can back the prof or hang out to dry. IMHO the college should be saying “mea culpa”, change the wording of the assignments, and give a verbal reprimand to the prof.

        Another aspect is the college is full of people that share the same ideology. As a student you have to ask yourself — what am I doing here? Vote with your pocketbook and go somewhere else.

        • Paul Hiett

          Did you read the assignment and the NOTE part?

          ” For the reading on the Nuns there are questions on the last page DO NOT ANSWER
          them, they are just part of the original article. You are to only answer the above three questions.
          SECOND, and this is VERY important, I DO NOT want you to write about how wonderful you
          think Christianity is now because women can do A, B, or C. History is history and facts are facts
          and your opinion on if it is better now or not is irrelevant for this discussion. This is a
          HISTORICAL discussion about the middle ages. If you really feel the need to express your
          opinion on how you think Christianity is now for women you may email me, you may call my
          office or I would love for you to stop by for a nice cup of hot tea where we can talk about it but it
          does not belong in this assignment.”

          • D.Kermott

            Are you ok? I really think you need some sort of help. call (866) 684-6303 if you are in crisis but if you are in immediate danger call 911.

          • Paul Hiett

            Not really sure what you mean by that. If you’re trying to be funny, well, don’t quit your day job. That was pretty piss poor.

          • Simon Timothy

            It is not trying to be funny – trying to be realistic. Try such assignments on Islam – I dare you cowards.

          • Paul Hiett

            There may have been assignments on Islam, but that’s not the point. Also, do you think insulting me is really necessary?

            Regarding the assignment, read the questions that were posed:

            1) What is something Lady Julian is saying/doing that women should not be saying/doing at
            that time under the Christian mythos?

            2) From the article on the Nuns what makes their defiance of male dominance so important?

            3) Why did Christianity, and its male gods, want to silence these women?

            Nothing in these questions has anything to do with anyone’s faith. It is a discussion regarding the actions of certain people during a particular period of time. Why are you folks up in arms over this?

          • Dax

            Of course they didn’t read it. That wouldn’t allow them(I’m probably giving them to much credit here) to brag about how much they love their saviour.

        • ConcernedCitizen15

          Sorry you object to looking at facts and thinking. The class has objectives, and if little dummy-brain Xian objects, she needs to forget getting an education and go to a church school instead. She doesn’t need education to get married and pop out dozens of little brainless Xian children like herself.

      • Jo-Ann R Jarvis

        …and I’m sure that none of them are afraid to speak the truth…because who would want to lose their tenure?!!! Let’s see them cram this rhetoric down a Muslims throat!!!

    • mzungu

      JR I’m not a good Christian either. We are saved by grace and not by works so that we cannot boast about what we have achieved. Once you are saved you are always saved because nobody can snatch us out of Christ’s hands. We are the church and the church is His Bride and one day soon the last room will be built and Christ will come for his Bride.

      This type of talk amounts to nothing but riddles or craziness to people who will die the 2nd death. The Holy Spirit is a helper that comes to live inside to guide you through meanings of scripture and how to apply those to our lives. Quenching that spirit is when we go off and do our own thing in the ways of this world. But the way to draw closer to the Spirit is by reading the Bible often with a reading plan. Prayer and frequent church attendance at a church that has been founded by the doctrine of Martin Luther. Martin Luther himself was a scholar that Polk County can’t match.

  • Emm Jane

    Gracie, well done you. DO NOT BACK DOWN. Love from the U.K. 🙂

  • Davy Buck

    I would have advised the student to respond to the assignment as requested, but turn the tables on this control freak professor by adding footnotes fully refuting the argument being presented in the body of the paper.

    • FoJC_Forever

      More than likely, his assignments were worded such that the only acceptable fulfillment of them would be ones that agreed with his views.

      • Paul Hiett

        You just admitted you didn’t read the assignment. Ergo, you have no base to argue from. Not surprising though, I doubt anyone here other than the atheists actually read the assignment.

        • FoJC_Forever

          No, I did not. The entire assignment was not listed in the article, but enough of it was to indicate where he was going with it. Humanities teachers or professors have no business getting involved in specific religious instruction and directing students to accept other’s views and beliefs as a primes for writing a critical paper. I also have some experience with your kind when it comes to classroom academic bullying and antics.

          You and your crowd should be banned from this site.

          • Paul Hiett

            Here’s the link to the assignment, which was in the article above, that you clearly did not click on, or read.

            https://www DOT liberty DOT edu/media/9980/attachments/2015/050415_-_LJ_Russum_-_Evidence_of_Discrimination.pdf

            That makes you a bald faced liar.

          • FoJC_Forever

            No, it doesn’t make me a liar. The entire assignment was not listed in the article, and I did not see the link.

            The information contained in the linked PDF supports what I said. The assignment is jaded with specific “thought instruction” being given to the student. “This is what you are to think and write about. I don’t want to hear……” They are being told to express specific ideas only, which is easily the antithesis of free thought exercises often taught in Humanities courses.

            You are wrong, Paul, you might as well accept it. You’re simply beating your head against a wall.

          • Paul Hiett

            That’s right…now you’re beginning to understand. The assignment was not about individual beliefs. It was an assignment regarding historical fact and the impact it had. It had nothing to do with forcing a Christian to do anything against her beliefs…that is simply pure dishonesty on the part of the student and anyone who agrees with her.

            Plain and simple, she absolutely misinterpreted the assignment, as you are yourself, and deserves the 0.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            “The entire assignment was not listed in the article, but enough of it was to indicate where he was going with it.”

            What? No, none of the assignment was shown in the article. Just one-sided commentary about it.

            “You and your crowd should be banned from this site.”

            Why? Because it’s hard to defend your beliefs? Because you’d rather not have to? Because you prefer to be in an echo chamber?

          • FoJC_Forever

            Not hard at all.

            If I didn’t want to share the Truth, I would not share it, so it’s something I enjoy doing for the LORD.

            No. I prefer a Christian site and it’s Christian audience not be harassed by those who simply enjoy trolling them.

            You don’t care about discussion or exploring ideas. You only care about ranting and raving against God, Christianity, and Christians.

  • UmustBKiddinMe

    “believes that it is rather the university that is wrong in punishing Lewis for not conforming to anti-Christian ideas.”

    No one was requiring that this student conform to any belief.

    ““She simply was being belittled because this person is a militant atheist intent on destroying her faith,” Staver”

    And the award for hyperbole goes to: MATT STAVER.

    • FoJC_Forever

      You obviously think all ideas and words are relative. Your moral ambiguity is sickening.

      Why don’t you pretend to be a Christian and tell everyone why you believe you are going to Heaven when you die, why those who aren’t Christian are going to Hell, and why they too should believe as you do?

      • UmustBKiddinMe

        “You obviously think all ideas and words are relative.”

        You think they are not?

        “Your moral ambiguity is sickening.”

        What moral ambiguity are you referring to?

        • FoJC_Forever

          They are not.

          The moral ambiguity which believes ideas and words are relative in meaning. Asking a Christian to write as if they are not a Christian is asking them to violate their Faith.

          So, would you be willing to fulfill an assignment such as one that I described?

          • uzza

            I’ve had plenty of assignments like that, just like any other educated person has. It’s an axiom of debate that you can’t argue a position until you can present both sides of the argument. Learning to do that is how one develops debating skills.

            Your objection frankly puzzles me, as without this skill one cannot write anything fictional, or practice law, or any number of other essential parts of society.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            “The moral ambiguity which believes ideas and words are relative in meaning.”

            That words and ideas are relative, which they are, does not result in personal moral ambiguity.

            “So, would you be willing to fulfill an assignment such as one that I described?”

            If the assignment were: “Describe the basis upon which Christians believe that they will go to Heaven when they die while others will go to Hell”, then yes, I would most certainly accept such an assignment. It has nothing to do with my personal beliefs, nor does it cause me to refute my beliefs, nor to change my beliefs.

          • Phipps Mike

            “Asking a Christian to write as if they are not a Christian is asking them to violate their Faith.”

            WRONGGGGGGG. get a life.

          • FoJC_Forever

            Another troll. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised.

            I have Life. It’s in Jesus (the) Christ.

            To ask anyone to deny knowing the Truth, either writing or speaking, is asking them to deny their Faith.

            Christianity isn’t mythology.

          • Phipps Mike

            I consider YOUR statement more of a trolling comment than my own. I am being realistic. School wasn’t AROUND when it was written to “not bear false witness”, so your statement is 100% INCORRECT. Fundamentalism is a sickness in EVERYTHING, not just religion. There are no absolutes….period. For every rule there IS an exception. Its all about circumstances.

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            Hmm…Tell us Mike Phipps : Would it be absolutely wrong for someone to rape and murder your child,or would It just be”relatively”so?

    • Evangelina Vigilantee

      Yes, they are requiring that. As an example, a Christian cannot make a statement such as “I don’t believe in the bible,” even as pretend. We believe in the bible, and we can never say anything to the contrary. Not just not believe, but not SAY. That is part of our faith. (the bible is just an example, but something integral to our faith). To require a student to say “I don’t believe in ______,” when as a Christian they do believe in _______ so they can’t say that statement, and then not to pass them for not saying that statement is to persecute them for their faith. Why? Because a Christian CANNOT say such a statement that contradicts their faith, even hypothetically, etc. Anyway, believe what you want but this is how it is and they are targeting Christians.

      • UmustBKiddinMe

        “Yes, they are requiring that.”

        The student was not asked to state: “I don’t believe in the Bible”.

  • Oracle

    The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

    • Roberto Nazario

      The intelligent person says it aloud.

      • Jo-Ann R Jarvis

        “Let no ne deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He caatches tje wise in their own craftiness” and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” Psalm 94:11, iCorinthians 3:18

        • uzza

          How cute, you can recite words. We’ve got a parrot that can do that too.

          • smhtriple7

            A parrot created by God,just like you.

          • uzza

            Please don’t kill him, he can’t help it that he spills his seed on the ground.

          • Bacchus

            You are entitled to claim that there is no God. Just out of interest. If a whooping storm destroyed your property ,would you to your insurance company and claim it was an act of God?

          • uzza

            Yes, I’d claim it was an act of Mother Nature , I wouldn’t claim there was no God.

          • Bacchus

            How would you classify Jesus of the Bible// would you say HE IS the son of God and God Also?

          • uzza

            Of course not. See, I paid attention in math class, and there was thing they teach, X=/= Y. Good to know.

          • rationalobservations?

            No informed person says “there is no god”. Since there are 1000s of assorted gods, goddesses and assorted god-men that appear in human authored fiction, but never in reality
            . A growing majority in the free, educated, democratic developed world observe ” THERE ARE NO GODS”.

          • Bacchus

            Would you consider that Jesus of the Bible is God or just a fable?

          • rationalobservations?

            The tales of a god-man named “Jesus” are confused and contradictory. That has been the case ever since the very first/oldest codex christian bible was started by 4 anonymous Greek scribes employed by the politico-corporate Roman business called “christianity”.

            There is absolutely no non-biblical (non apparently fictional) 1st century trace of any “messiah” named “Jesus” (or any “messiah” real Hebrew name – like Joshua, Yeshua/Y-Shua – from which the otherwise meaningless word invented by Greek scribes are assumed to have been derived). Several other historical “messiahs” are recorded between Circa 4 BCE and Circa 140 CE but none are named as Yeshua/”Jesus”, and none of their misadventures and often quite popular cults, bear any slight similarity to the much, much later written (and much altered, edited, amended and exaggerated) tales of Jesus that appear from the 4th century onward.

            All non-biblical texts that are claimed to confirm the existence and exploits of “Jesus” also date from long after the time in which the legends are set. The oldest texts attributed to Tacitus date from the 11th century as one example.

            It has often been emphasized that Christianity is unlike any other religion, for it stands or falls by certain events which are alleged to have occurred during a short period of time some 20 centuries ago. Those stories are presented in the New Testament, and as new evidence is revealed it will become clear that they do not represent historical realities.

            The Church agrees, saying:

            “Our documentary sources of knowledge about the origins of Christianity and its earliest development are chiefly the New Testament Scriptures, the authenticity of which we must, to a great extent, take for granted.”
            (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. iii, p. 712)

            The Church makes extraordinary admissions about its New Testament. For example, when discussing the origin of those writings,

            “the most distinguished body of academic opinion ever assembled” (Catholic Encyclopedias, Preface) admits that the Gospels “do not go back to the first century of the Christian era”

            (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. vi, p. 137, pp. 655-6).

            This statement conflicts with priesthood assertions that the earliest Gospels were progressively written during the decades following the death of the Gospel Jesus Christ.

            In a remarkable aside, the Church further admits that,

            “the earliest of the extant manuscripts [of the New Testament], it is true, do not date back beyond the middle of the fourth century AD”

            (Catholic Encyclopedia, op. cit., pp. 656-7).

            That is some 350 years after the time the Church claims that a Jesus Christ walked the sands of Palestine, and here the true story of Christian origins slips into one of the biggest black holes in history. There is, however, a reason why there were no New Testaments until the fourth century: they were not written until then, and here we find evidence of the greatest misrepresentation of all time.

            The bible appears to be compilation of fables and legends from times prior to and later after the time in which they are set. Tales that are clearly not historically accurate and contain endless contradictions and scientific absurdities.

            That is why it is called “blind faith” to believe in such transparent fraud.

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            Hmm…Sorry to burst your bubble,”rationalobservations2″,but the so-called “Catholic Encyclopedia”is NOT the be-all and end-all of Ecclesiastical historical scholarship,not by a looong shot.The issue of the supposed non-existence of Jesus the Christ(under WHATEVER Name you choose to address Him by)has long been decisively settled,and is no longer an issue in the Orthodox Christian World, and frankly,we don’t much care what the opinions of atheists are on the matter—That’s why it’s called opinion.At most,we all find ourselves caught up on the “spinning wheel”of dueling scholars,and I for one refuse to play . Speaking ONLY for myself,I have been a born-again, blood-bought, Spirit-filled child / servant of Almighty God for 39 years,have been a dedicated student of my faith for over 25 years,have read practically every supposed refutation of both Christianity in general and the,again,supposed non-existence of Jesus Christ in particular,and to date I’m as firmly convinced of the reality and validity of both as I am my own reality.There isn’t an atheistic philosophy or argument that has or could EVER convince me otherwise;if atheists haven’t succeeded after almost 40 years,they certainly won’t in 40 more.So…Peace to you,rationalobservations2, and may the God you don’t believe in richly bless you!

          • Oracle

            Amen

          • rationalobservations?

            You have my deep ans sincere sympathy.

            Such a deeply indoctrinated delusion as yours yours appears to be is sad indeed.

            A life wasted.

            Cash wasted in support of any exclusively self serving politico-corporate business of religion is a crime against humanity in this world filled with starvation, ignorance, poverty and premature avoidable death.

            Religiots should be ashamed of themselves and the corrupt institutions they are voluntarily in thrall to.

          • Bacchus

            I go to the original Greek texts. of which the King James version is about the most reliable translation. Why do you say that eye witness accounts are fables??? Do you like to lie to yourself. That to me seems very stupid. The original was re translated into hundreds of languages and tens of thousands of copies were written within 100 years of the original event. The last and concluding book was written by the Apostle John 95 AD. You should read it, its called the Apocalypses. Just so you will know what will happen to you when this event occurs. Have fun. You stand a 95% chance of dying .

          • rationalobservations?

            Why not go to the oldest / first christian bible known as the “Codex Sinaiticus”? It was started by 4 anonymous scribes in the mid to late 4th century and contains the evidence of at least another 800 years of interpolation, alteration, editing and exaggeration.

            Nothing (NOTHING) (except a few semi-literate words scrawled on a piece of papyrus dating from the mid to late 2nd century) dates earlier than this prototype collection of confused and contradictory legends of a “god-man” named “Jesus”.

            Why do you claim that legends written by anonymous 4th century scribes are “eye-witness accounts”? Do you like to lie to yourself? Or do you just need the lies of others to be true so much that you can’t bear to seek out the truth?

            Your claim that: “The original was re translated into hundreds of languages and tens of thousands of copies were written within 100 years of the original event.” Is a lie. If you wish to dispute that absolute fact – you will be required to refer to the location and nature of the original, extant, verified and verifiable, texts, manuscripts, scrolls or papyri. I have searched far and wide, and visited many (most) of the world’s greatest libraries and museums and none contain, or know of; the documents you refer to.

            I have studied many, many versions of the bible., including the KJV that was written by a whole team of English authors who were possibly attempting to emulate Shakespeare. A very poetical and majestic piece of literature to which the English language owes much. Quite significantly different to the oldest extant christian bible that was hand written by 4 anonymous Greek scribes in Rome in the 4th century however.

            Please, PLEASE verify your claims – before bothering me again with your all too familiar recycled propaganda and lies.

          • Bacchus

            Enjoy your time in the great tribulation. This prophesy is coming true as we speak You wont need to wait much longer for the start of this event. Too many prophesies have come true or are coming true. Have you even tried to read the Bible? or is your “research” purely technical? Please enplane how the apostle took the Gospel of Jesus to Mosul between 60 and 70 AD? If what you say is true then Christianity could have only existed since the late 4th century. Dr. Wallace of DTS discusses the latest find of NT fragments from the 2nd century. You are saying that the eye witness of the Apostle of John Polycarp was a liar? Interesting. Yet you believe the writings of Plato, Archimedes and others whose original writings have 500 years distant from the originals? Are there any original fragments of their writings or are they only copies of copies?.

          • rationalobservations?

            The crackpots have been saying “the end is nigh” for millennia. The only truth in that is that our own brief period of existence between non-existence and non-existence (like all living things) is finite and terminal and death is final and an absolute fact of life. The only thing that follows our brief period of life – is death. The future for your recently evolved ape body is to become rotting meat and bone, or the gritty white powder that comes out of the crematorium oven. All else is wishful thinking and childish delusion.

            Where are these gospels dating from 60 and 70 CE? In fact, where are any “gospels” that exist from a date prior to the 4th century first hand written bibles called “Codex Sinaiticus” and “Codex Vaticanus”?

            Your diversion into the realms of attribution of Plato etc have no bearing on the question of the total and absolute lack of anything that verifies the various, diverse and different “gospels” that were all hand written between the 4th and 14th centuries by anonymous scribes in the pay if the Roman state. It is widely accepted that (like bibles) the works attributed to “Homer” were written by unknown authors over several hundred years.

            Of course: Unlike your apparently fictional Yeshua/”Jesus” – no one was ever persecuted, tortured or murdered in the name of Plato, Archimedes or Homer etc. Neither were the wealthiest modern/contemporary individuals and organisations of religion (that ruled humanity and still bamboozle the ignorant and naive) established in the name of Plato etc.

            If you have anything more than your personal indoctrinated opinion and recycled disingenuous propaganda based upon centuries of lies to offer – please get back to me….

          • Bacchus

            Jesus prophesied personally to Malachi and to Zachariah and both prophesies came true.

          • rationalobservations?

            As the oldest/first codex bibles were not hand written by anonymous scribes until the mid/late 4th century – it was easy for them to make prophesies about events that had already happened.

            As for the actual real OT Pentateuch Hebrew/Jewish messianic prophesies:

            “Jesus Did Not Embody the Personal Qualifications of Messiah

            A. Messiah as Prophet

            The Messiah will become the greatest prophet in history, second only to Moses. (Targum – Isaiah 11:2; Maimonides – Yad Teshuva 9:2)

            Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry, a situation which has not existed since 300 BCE. During the time of Ezra, when the majority of Jews remained in Babylon, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets ― Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

            Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended, and thus could not be a prophet.

            B. Descendent of David

            Many prophetic passages speak of a descendant of King David who will rule Israel during the age of perfection. (Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah 23:5-6, 30:7-10, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:11-31, 37:21-28; Hosea 3:4-5)

            The Messiah must be descended on his father’s side from King David (see Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father ― and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father’s side from King David. (1)

            According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (2) nor will he possess supernatural qualities.

            C. Torah Observance

            The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

            Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), “He does not observe Shabbat!””

            Jesus, (according to the legends written about him long longafter the time in which his legends are set) could not be the true messiah who is still awaited by his fellow Jews.

          • Bacchus

            Where do you get your crap from? The old testament has been verified as an accurate record. the dead sea scolls prove the Old testament is accurate. Have you even read the Old Testament ? IN Malachi and Zachariah Jesus was speaking about himself. Can you understand that??? Jesus said he is the LORD OF THE SABBATH Read Isiah 61 :1and Luke 4:18-21 and yet even David ate the shew bread which was forbidden. Do you understand the dispensations in the Old testament??? What did Jesus say “NO longer do I say an eye for an eye but…. Jesus was fully God and FULLY man. Jesus was born of woman’s seed read Genesis 3:15. No mention of Adam’s seed. Your interpretation of the Old Testament is flawed.

          • rationalobservations?

            I have studied the content of the so called “dead sea scrolls” and the most interesting among them is a surprisingly detailed record of a 1st century messianic cult that bears no similarity whatsoever to the much, later and over time much much altered legends of an apparently fictional “god-man” named by Greeks as “Jesus” – although no Hebrew/Jewish name “Jesus” existed in the 1st century.

            Which of the “Dead Sea Scrolls” do you refer to and where is it to be studied? I must have missed it/them??

            You continue to quote for a very recent version of the much altered and long edited, amended, rewritten, exaggerated and interpolated legends of “Jesus” as though they have historicity. You are in error to do so.

            Have you studied a reliable interpretation of the oldest/first christian bible? It is called Codex Sinaiticus and the original 4TH CENTURY hand written in Greek book – together with a translation – can be found at Codex Sinaiticus dot org.
            LOOK IT UP!

          • Bacchus

            Jesus spoke to Zachariah 12:10 and gave him a prophesy about what would happen to himself. He also spoke to Malachi 3:1 and told him what would happen. Both of these came true How do you explain that

          • Bacchus

            Polycarp was a student of John the Apostle and verified the writings of John.

            OOOOOPs I though you were well read!

          • rationalobservations?

            Once again – you fail to reveal the source of your “information”.

            No original, first hand “copy” of anything written and merely attributed to (or about) “Polycarp” exists. It’s all “hearsay” written long after the time in which the alleged events took place.

            Polycarp of Smyrna was a bishop of Smyrna (now İzmir in Turkey). It is alleged that he had been “a disciple of John”. There are in fact a few options for this John could have been if any one of them actually existed outside the pages of later written fiction. Some of the possibilities may be; John the son of Zebedee – unproven as the author of the fourth Gospel, or John the Presbyter. Traditional advocates follow Eusebius in insisting that the apostolic connection of Papius was with John the Evangelist, and that this John, the author of the Gospel of John, was the same as the Apostle John.

            Once you start to look at the oldest versions of any of the confused and contradictory biblical legends as they have evolved down the ages from the 4th century oldest versions – it is increasingly difficult to find any actual evidence.

            The oldest christian Church agrees, saying:

            “Our documentary sources of knowledge about the origins of Christianity and its earliest development are chiefly the New Testament Scriptures, the authenticity of which we must, to a great extent, take for granted.”
            (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. iii, p. 712)

            The Church makes extraordinary admissions about its New Testament. For example, when discussing the origin of those writings,

            “The most distinguished body of academic opinion ever assembled” (Catholic Encyclopedias, Preface) admits that the Gospels “do not go back to the first century of the Christian era”

            (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. vi, p. 137, pp. 655-6).

            This statement conflicts with priesthood assertions that the earliest Gospels were progressively written during the decades following the death of the Gospel Jesus Christ.

            In a remarkable aside, the Church further admits that,

            “The earliest of the extant manuscripts [of the New Testament], it is true, do not date back beyond the middle of the fourth century AD”

            (Catholic Encyclopedia, op. cit., pp. 656-7).

            You have already clearly demonstrated you are no scholar and only read the mountain of disingenuous [email protected] generated by may generations of dishonest liars for “christ”.

            Please STOP your mindless recycling of long debunked bunkum and either put forward authentic, authenticated, first hand, verified and verifiable, independent and non-biblical (i.e., non apparently fictional) evidence – or face up to the absolute fact that NONE EXISTS.

          • rationalobservations?

            P.S:

            “Pew researchers say the number of Americans who don’t affiliate with any particular religion has grown to 56 million in recent years.

            While that category includes some who still believe in God or consider themselves “spiritual,” the new study also found substantial increases in those who say they’re atheist or agnostic.

            The Rev. Russell Moore, who guides public policy for the Southern Baptist Convention, found the results indicative of people’s willingness to be more open about their beliefs.

            In a blog posting, Moore says, “We do not have more atheists in America. We have more honest atheists in America.”

            But secular groups also have become increasingly organized to counter bias against them and keep religion out of public life through lawsuits and lobbying lawmakers.

            Pew researchers found that more than 70 percent of Americans identify as Christians, but that’s down about 8 percent from 2007.

            They say the Christian losses were driven by decreases among liberal Protestants and Roman Catholics. Pew found 13 percent of U.S. adults are former Catholics.”

          • Roberto Nazario

            No, I’d go to my insurance company and say, “A natural disaster has destroyed my home, which I had ensured through your company, and for which I have been diligently paying for the last 10 years. Now, uphold your end of the deal and give me the money I need to repair my home/move into a new home, as stipulated in our contract. Thank you.”

          • Roberto Nazario

            A parrot whose species evolved from a common ancestor, just like you.

            Fixed.

        • Roberto Nazario

          And I should care what the bible says… because…?

        • rationalobservations?

          It’s there in black and white! To paraphrase your quote:
          “You need to be a gullible moron to believe in that nonsense”.
          Or: “Let him become a fool that he may be fooled”.

      • http://www.google.com/ Jan van Niekerk

        Your so clever a fool.

        • Roberto Nazario

          You’re.*

          Also, thank you! I happen to heavily agree with you.

      • Laurence Charles Ringo

        Thus once again proving the time-honored wisdom of that old adage: “It’s better to be thought a fool,than to open your mouth and removed all doubt”.

        • Roberto Nazario

          I completely agree. Makes me cringe every time someone posts bible verses to try to refute your claims. From that point forward, I know I’m dealing with someone who believes in fairy tales for adults.

    • Nofun

      The fool hath said that bible proves the bible, verily that is circular thinking.

    • mzungu

      Bubba I have no idea why Atheists find it thrilling to argue with us but they do. God is chasing them and has led them to us so that on their last day they will stand with no excuse.

      • Oracle

        It is very interesting to see them post the same arguments over and over again. They seem so angry. It’s funny because the fact that there are atheist, proves God exists. Anyways, I will continue to read their posts and pray for them in the process. God bless you brother.

        • Roberto Nazario

          “It’s funny because the fact that there are atheist, proves God exists.”

          So then, the fact that you don’t believe in Zeus, proves that Zeus exists. #logic

      • ElRay

        Atheists argue with theists because they use their subjective interpretation, of their preferred sect (over 1000 in the case of christianity), based on somebody’s subjective interpretation of their preferred version of their mythological tome (200+ in the case of the christian bible), to justify bigotry, hatefulness, misogyny, discrimination, Constitutional violations, special exemptions from laws, teaching mythology as fact, etc., etc., etc., If you theists just stayed at home instead of trying to force your mythology on others, atheists would leave you alone.

  • Gerald

    This professor needs to be fired!!

    • Ambulance Chaser

      For what?

  • Crono478

    This is honestly hardly surprising. We have a lot of teachers like that in schools and universities for a long time. We only hear the news now because this Christian student is faithful and holding fast to her faith.

  • UmustBKiddinMe

    “Humanities Professor Gives Christian Student Zeroes for Rejecting Anti-Christian Teachings”

    No, she gave the student zeros because he didn’t complete the assignment. That’s what happens when you don’t complete assignments. You get zeros. What a cry baby.

    • FoJC_Forever

      The student is female.

      • UmustBKiddinMe

        Thanks. I made the correction in my post.

        • FoJC_Forever

          The professor is male.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            I got my students and professors mixed up. Thanks again. Correction made.

          • FoJC_Forever

            You’ve got many things mixed up, but you’re welcome.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            “You’ve got many things mixed up”

            Such as?

          • FoJC_Forever

            (insert all of your comments on this Christian news site)

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            So you can’t cite any specifics. Got it. Thanks.

          • Paul Hiett

            Do they ever?

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            Rarely. It seems the primary tactic is to make general statements and then run like little girls seeing a spider, when asked for details. It simply points out the lack of substance in their statements.

          • Paul Hiett

            Or quote a Bible verse as though it settles the discussion.

  • FoJC_Forever

    Secular rule is rarely fair rule.

    It’s as plain as the nose on someone’s face that he is bias and is bashing Christianity. The excuse of “long standing academic practice” is just that, an excuse and a thin one at that. If the curriculum were fair, papers would be graded for how well they present the ideas of the writers, the consistent use of factual references, and on how well the students researched the subject of the assignment, rather than being infused with his personal beliefs about God and Christianity.

    Jesus isn’t a myth.

    • UmustBKiddinMe

      “The excuse of “long standing academic practice” is just that, an excuse and a thin one at that. ”

      Oh, so kind of like: “it has been a long standing practice that marriage has been between one man and one woman” – an excuse to impose Christian beliefs on the public at large, and a thin one at that.

      • Laurence Charles Ringo

        Marriage between a man and a woman is a longstanding norm in countless cultures,many that pre-date the advent of Christianity,UmustBKiddinMe…learn some history,why don’t ya?

        • UmustBKiddinMe

          Marriage between one man and many women was the norm in many cultures, long before the advent of Christianity. Even after the advent of Christianity, marriage involved a man and multiple wives.

          Learn some history, why don’t ya?

    • Ambulance Chaser

      “It’s as plain as the nose on someone’s face that he is bias and is bashing Christianity.”

      How can it be if you didn’t even read the questions?”

    • Jim H

      I don’t believe Jesus was s myth, but I also believe there are certainly mythic qualities to the stories about him. There were lots of New Testament “scriptures” about him that were accepted at one time and later were determined to be non-canonical.

      The New Testament Biblical canon as we know it was, more or less, accepted established by the mid-300s.

      Eusebius in his Church History (c. 330), listed some of the rejected writings as the; Acts of Paul, so-called Shepherd (of Hermes?), Apocalypse of Peter, Epistle of Barnabas, Teachings of the Apostles; and Apocalypse of John (yes Revelations), the Gospel according to the Hebrews, the Gospels of Peter, of Thomas, of Matthias, the Acts of Andrew and John and the other apostles.

      The recognition of the current books in the cannon as authoritative was not formalized untill the Second Council of Trullan of 692.

      Luther would have likely further modified the canon by removing some (perhaps all) of the once disputed writings [Antilegomena], which made it into the canon; i.e., the Epistle of James and Jude, the second epistle of Peter, and those that are called the second and third of John. He also originally didn’t like Revelation and like Eusebius’ list would have removed it.

      Many modern scholars see the gospels as narratives in which memories about Jesus have mythic elements added that express his followers faith in him and added qualities that put Jesus on a par with the God-men of the pagans; i.e., Hercules.

      They see the Jesus of history as distinct from the Christ of faith.

      • Laurence Charles Ringo

        I would advise you not to get caught up in the so-called “modern scholars” treadmill,Jim H; you’ll wind up not knowing WHAT to believe.While I myself as a Christian value intellectual rigor,a cautious adage to remember is this: Just because someone has a bunch of alphabets trailing their names,that’s no guarantee that they know what they’re talking about.You want to get the straight on Authentic Christianity? Meet Jesus yourself,my friend.

        • Jim H

          Most of my post was about Eusebius, who lived in the 4th century, and Luther, who lived in the 15th-16th century.

          Eusebius pointed in particular, pointed out the multitude of writing about Jesus which obviously didn’t all agree.

          You didn’t disagree with anything I said, so does that mean you except that there are certainly mythic qualities to the stories about him?

          You may be right that saying that as someone having a bunch of alphabets trailing their names provides no guarantee that they know what they’re talking about. However, I would contend that it certainly increases the probability they know a lot about it.

          That is why we go to M.D.s when we are sick, D,D.S.’s when we get a toothache, etc.

          You said if I want to get the straight on Authentic Christianity, I should meet Jesus myself, how do you now I haven’t? Do you think he is against academic inquiry or requires that I stop thinking?

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            Two things,Jim H:(1),that depends in what sense you are using the word”myth”,and (2),you’re right,I don’t know whether or not you’ve met the RisenSaviourpardon my presumption.I can say this: We as Christians are instructed to love the Lord our God with…”all our minds”…as well as with everything else,and as I said earlier,while I embrace academic rigor as far as it goes,ANYTHING that endeavors to lead me AWAY from the Truth of Scripture,ANYTHING going away from The Lord my God is going in the wrong direction,and I won’t go with it.—PEACE IN CHRIST.

          • Jim H

            “that depends in what sense you are using the word “myth”

            How many senses of the word “myth” are there?

            “I embrace academic rigor as far as it goes,”

            Caveating your embrace of academic rigor with “as far as it goes” means you don’t really embrace it.

  • Phillip

    Are these Christians retarded , no you don’t go to college and change the academia.go to one of those diploma mill Christian schools if you have a problem with accredited schools.sick of these assholes shouting discrimination when there is none !

  • D.Kermott

    Instead of “Luther as a humanist” how about “Explain why or why not Luther was a humanist”

    Instead of “Luther’s reformation as political” how about “Explain the political ramifications of the Reformation”

    Instead of “How Luther embraces the peasants and then abandons them when it gets to difficult for him” to “What may have motivated Luther during difficult times and what impact on peasant populations would you envision”

    The final question is what a Layer would call “Leading the Witness”. The logical conclusion regarding these assignments is the instructor is biased against Luther and wants the students to take part in condemning him.

  • Evangelina Vigilantee

    “the premise that an instructor should not require a student to….or present arguments that are contrary to his/her personal beliefs”
    No, the overall fallacy of YOUR position is in saying that it is okay to ask a student to deny their faith to pass a class. That is religious discrimination no matter how they want to dress it up. The above statement endorses requiring a student to present an argument that is contrary to their faith. Christians cannot and will not do that. The most a Christian can do is say that “Bob” thinks that ‘there is no god’, (that type of thing), but we can never say ‘I think there is no god,’ because that would be making a claim contrary to what we believe. We cannot make a claim that is contrary to what we believe. We cannot even pretend and say something like ‘I think I can be a god,’ etc., just to pass a class. We can never deny our Lord. That is the calling of a true disciple of Jesus Christ. And the devil knows it. That is why he is targeting us. That is why this is happening and will continue. It’s the new holocaust. Just be ready to stand your ground if you are a true Christian.

    • uzza

      So you’re not trying out for the debate team then?

      • http://www.google.com/ Jan van Niekerk

        You can only be on the debate team if you agree with the motion. Disagreeing with the motion disqualifies you from the debate.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Uh, no. Debaters are presented with a resolution and charged with preparing a case supporting the affirmative and the negative, and will have to argue both over the course of a tournament.

  • John Lawless

    Most degrees require one semester of humanities. It is possible with a college this small the only way to satisfy the requirement is to take the class. I hold a B.Sc., two masters and I am a doctorate student. I have run across my share of profs who exert a lot of coercion because they know the class is required. This girl was setup from the beginning. If he has tenure the other profs won’t go against him. It is sad to state many of our secular institutions are filled with unethical profs.

  • Reason2012

    And here’s how you refute their false attempt to defend this anti-Christian teaching: Point out how a professor can have assignments about why atheism is wrong and why Christ is the truth and any complaints by those who believe otherwise can be met with:

    “The overall fallacy of your position rests singly on the premise that an instructor should not require a student to consider, discuss or present arguments that are contrary to his/her personal beliefs,” a response to Liberty Counsel from the law firm, Boswell and Dunlap of Bartow reads. “Such a position shows apparent ignorance of long-standing academic practice.”

    And of course now you can see how clearly that’s a false claim.

    • uzza

      Actually, no you can’t .
      In Forensics a common method is to pull a topic out of a hat, read it, then prepare two arguments, each promoting one side. So in your example, I would first argue as a Christian trying to convert and atheist, and then argue as an atheist trying to deconvert a Christian. How you can see this as anything other than a valuable learning experience escapes me.

      • Reason2012

        There are not two arguments in this case. Catching on yet?

        • retona4

          There’s no argument; the girl’s a dolt who should accept that not everyone bends over backwards for Christians.

          • Reason2012

            She’s not asking others to bend over backwards for Christians. She’s pointing out this professor is being a hateful bigot towards Christians and is being called out on it.

    • uzza

      No, actually I can’t see how that demonstrates anything. Can you explain what you mean?

  • Paul Hiett

    If you read the assisgnment that is linked, it clearly dictates that this is not about whether or not Christianity is true, or putting anyone to a test regarding their faith. It is simply an assignment regarding history. This student is clearly in the wrong, and in not doing the assignment, deserves the grade she got. Not everything that discusses Christianity is an attack on someone’s faith…you people need to stop being scared of your own shadow.

    • The Last Trump

      Thanks Paul!
      We can always count on you to defend Christianity JUST LIKE YOU SAID YOU DO! Sure hope I never have you as a witness in MY defense!

      • Paul Hiett

        In other words, you didn’t read the assignment. Something tells me you’ve heard that all throughout your life though.

    • Penny

      Where is the link? I do want to read the assignment.

    • Nathan Z Solomon

      My concern here is not the actual assignment, but why would, after a lawyer got involved, she now receiving good grades vs 0’s? Why the change? Did the professor get “scared of his own shadow”?

      In addition, why a 0? A 0 means the assignment is not acceptable on any level (e.g. a blank piece of paper). She wrote something. As a good teacher (which this one is not), I would use positive queuing to guide the student and let them know that “this” part of the work was inconsistent with the assignment and point out where it was inconsistent. But I would have given her points for her effort, her logic, her view of humanities. But a 0? That’s obviously a “statement”. In addition, four 0’s? Really? Shows that ignorance has no timeframe.

      • ElRay

        Again, a pro-christian not knowing reality arguing from incredulity and ignorance.

        The assignments were the last four of the term. Grades were complete even before the lawyers got involved.

        Also, as anybody that’s actually gone to college knows, it’s not uncommon to receive assignments that, individually, have little affect on your total grade. If these four assignments constituted a small percentage of the final grade, it’s quite easy for a student to receive zeros on the assignments and still receive an A. Add to that, the fact that college-level courses are often “curved”, the four zeros would have had even less of an affect on her final grade, if she was already ahead of the curve.

        • Nathan Z Solomon

          Your insults do not decrease the value of my questions.

          • ElRay

            No insults here, just statements of fact. And true, the value of your implications vis questions are not lowered, because they had no value to start with.

            Anybody with a modi come of interest in the truth, instead of a pre-supposition to slander, would have easily found the truth instead of the distorted facts and actual lies (by omission), of this article.

          • Nathan Z Solomon

            Again, a pro-christian not knowing reality arguing from incredulity and ignorance. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…it’s an insult. Anybody with a modicum (not modi come) of intelligence would know how to spell modicum…especially with a spell checker available to you, instead of the distorted spelling of the word.

            For you to suggest that curves are a good thing show that you have no clue about how to teach anyone. A curve in a grade means that either A) the students were unprepared to take the course or B) The professor was unable to communicate the information so that it could be absorbed by the students. Curves are used to make the professor look good and to help the students pass. Either way, they are not an appropriate teaching method. Anyone who has been to college would know that.

          • Nathan Z Solomon

            In addition, it is insufficient for you to speak from a professor’s point of view when you have clearly never been one.

          • Nathan Z Solomon

            Obviously all the above are statements of fact…no insult here.

    • mzungu

      She is a 3.9 student. How well did you do?
      If I were to ask you “Are you still beating your wife?” You can answer 1 of 3 ways. ‘Yes’, ‘no’, ‘I’m not married’. The professor gave her zeroes for giving the last answer.

  • Evangelina Vigilantee

    Did anyone hear about the case on the East Coast, in a high school in one class they were teaching islam and it wasn’t just “about” islam. It’s one thing to be informed, but they wanted the students to recite the prayer for converting to Islam. Now of course, that is something that a true Christian can NEVER do! (under any pretenses) So one student refused and the teacher failed her so her and her dad went to the school and fought it and it became a court case too, google it to find out more. But this is the same kind of thing.

    • Paul Hiett

      Hate to break it to you, but that didn’t actually happen. Things like that tend to go the route of the “telephone game”, where one person tells a story to another and so on, until it resembles nothing of what it started as.

      Proof? Here ya go…

      www DOT politifact DOT com/florida/statements/2015/feb/24/blog-posting/high-schoolers-had-recite-islamic-prayer-class-mak/

  • Stubbsme

    Blessed are those who a persecuted for my sake.

  • jmichael39

    The problem here is not new. And it is not uniquely associated with Christianity. Most professors, these days, force feed their personal views on whatever subject it is they teach. Rather than effectively teaching students to search for their own perspectives on issues and stand in defense of those perspectives, they force us to, essentially, parrot their own views as taught to their students. Then when you actually DO take a personal stance on an issue they rip you to shreds.

    When I was a freshman in college, I was taking a philosophy course and on day one the professor asked all those who believed in the existence of God to raise their hands. As a freshman I was like most of the rest of the kids my age…completely unwilling to be identified by the beliefs of my parents. Like most teenagers, I wondered how my parents actually survived as long as they did without me there to tell them about real truth. Suffice it to say I didn’t raise my hand when he asked that question and only three kids did.

    What happened next was surprising even to me at the time. He then told those three students that one of his goals in the class was that by the end of the semester, when he would again ask the same question, that nobody would raise their hand.
    It was during that semester that I had my encounter with Jesus and gave my life to Him. As stupid as it was to do, I actually decided to write my term paper after that on proving the existence of God philosophically. I have no memory on exactly what I wrote. I just remember doing my research and being terrified when I turned it in.

    Fortunately, as hard-nosed an atheist as the professor portrayed himself to be in the class, he was academically honorable and gave me a very good grade on the paper and how I presented my case, even though he personally disagreed. That’s actually the sort of professors I’ve always liked…ones who make you think, but who don’t grade you on agreeing with them. And that’s what missing more and more in our colleges.

    BTW, when he asked the question at the end of the semester…four hands raised.

    • Paul Hiett

      And let me guess, at the end of the semester, the professor was hit by a car and suddenly accepted Jesus?

      • jmichael39

        No, but I heard that he was arrested later for having sex with a donkey. The happy couple later delivered a jackass they named Paul Hiett.

        • Paul Hiett

          Ah yes, the typical Christian throwing out insults. How very Christ-like.

          • jmichael39

            What’s the matter, Paul? You can put out the insults, but you can’t take ’em? Don’t be a such an hypocrite.
            And now you’re gonna try to tell someone how a Christian’s supposed to behave? LMAO.
            You couldn’t keep your mouth shut, could ya, Paul? You just HAD to throw out your little smarmy comment and now you’re too sensitive to take it when someone stands up to you.
            Time to grow a pair, Paul.

          • Paul Hiett

            Let’s see…LastTrump, FoJC, Gary, Richard, you…many more as well…all you folks do is throw out insults on here.

            By all means, keep putting on display exactly what kind of a person you are.

          • jmichael39

            You really are a hypocrite, P…you throw insults and then cry like a whining little baby as soon as one of us insults you back. You don’t like being insulted? Don’t come on here insulting us. It’s as simple as that. Otherwise, shut the hell up and take it like a man.

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            Take a deep breath and dial it back a notch,jmichael39…I’m not sure what Bible you’re reading,but I have to agree with the posters who have called you out:You have utterly failed to present Christ as He is;you have NO Biblical mandate to conduct yourself as you have,and as a supposed ” christian “witness you have ZERO credibility.Are you serious?? Stop whatever you’re doing,and read 2nd Timothy 2:24-26,and ponder.Again,take a deep breath and go back over your posts in light of this passage,jmichael39…Ask yourself how Jesus Himself dealt with those who disagreed with Him,and act accordingly.The only legitimate place to lower yourself to the level of your opponent, so to speak,is in an actual war/battle.Then you’ll a weapon equivalent to his.Christians won this false “war”at The Tomb; there’s nothing to fight over.Jesus the Christ will NEVER be overthrown,jmichael39; sheath your sword,and go your way: WE WIN.—PEACE IN CHRIST!

          • MisterPine

            Your problem is you take it very personally when someone points out any example of Christians Behaving Badly.

            Paul is right. You insult, you do not reason. And some of you just abandon the entire discussion entirely because you accuse us of being misled by Satan.

          • jmichael39

            BS, Piney….Paul is the biggest insulter on this board. People like him and you COME here to insult Christians and Christianity and then when someone returns the favor you’re all over them for behaving ‘poorly’. Screw you and your selective ethics. When you guys decide to come here to talk amicably about things you disagree about in a respectful manner then you can expect to be treated lifewise. But as long you’re here to ridicule, mock and attack our beliefs, you’ll be treated with the disdain you deserve. And you can save you pseudo-moral superiority for someone who hasn’t seen what you write to Christians on here.

          • MisterPine

            BS yourself, sonny boy. You think it’s difficult to go back and read what both you and I posted here in the past? You have one of the worst cases of the nasties I’ve ever seen on a forum. No words of wisdom, no attempts to reason or discourse, just name calling and mocking from you. Did you think there were diamonds in that dog sh!t you were posting all this time? They weren’t even zircons!

            Anyone who takes more than a minute to read what Paul or I write will know we are not trolls. We see appalling behavior from people calling themselves Christians and we question it. Such as when Christians seem to think that it’s their right to break the law and discriminate against those who they deem to live a “sinful lifestyle”. What hypocrites! You’re one to talk about morality, I wouldn’t let someone as hateful as you are walk my dog, never mind proselytize hate masquerading as Christianity to my children.

          • jmichael39

            LMAO…read your OWN posts, Piney. You’re no better than accuse other of. And are you the one who openly admitted you come here to do that very thing…to instigate and ridicule and mock Christians cause you just don’t like us. And then you actually think it surprising when one or more of us stand up to you and are just as nasty back. LMAO

            “We see appalling behavior from people calling themselves Christians” – You aren’t even a Christian and you dare to come here telling us how we’re SUPPOSE to behave? Screw you and your prejudice. You wanna come to a CHristian site and act like that and then expect us to be all nicey nicey with you?! You stepped in your own dung pile, dude…time to wipe your shoe off or get lost.

          • MisterPine

            Oh, go pee up a rope. I never admitted to “instigating” anything. You don’t know the first thing about me or my relationship with Christians. The Christians I associate with daily are normal, mild mannered people who keep their faith to themselves, not this crazed breed of Catholic-hating fundie radicals who see it as their mission in life to make other people miserable as much as possible with hatred and oppression.

            That’s right, I’m not even a Christian, but I know how you are supposed to behave, and this isn’t it. Unless your mission is to make other people run as far from Christianity as possible. As you do with your negative, judgemental BS.

          • jmichael39

            “You don’t know the first thing about me or my relationship with Christians.” – You KNOW about US?! You’re a freakin’ bigot. You think you’re better than us for some reason and you come here to show it. You’re a sick loser who couldn’t debate his way out of a paperbag.

            You’re freakin’ laughable. You don’t shine a mirror or light on anything except the reality that people like you are hate-filled bigots who think you know best how other people should live. And you think WE’RE the judgmental ones. Your SOLE reason for even coming here is to judge others whom you’ve already decided you don’t like.

          • MisterPine

            You are a joke. The biggest one here. To any casual observer you couldn’t be further from your savior in terms of behavior if you tried. So utterly typical – point out a bigot’s bigotry and their only response in return is to call you a bigot right back.

            You’re insignificant and inconsequential, and time will prove you to be on the wrong side of history in every respect. You are the quintessential loser and hater. Keep it up!

          • jmichael39

            and you’re in no place to tell ANYONE how near or far a person is from Jesus. You’re a troll and a fraud. You wouldn’t know the first thing about history. You can’t even step away from your bigotry long enough to view historical documents as historical documents. And why? because of people YOU HATE have chose to make those documents the centerpiece for their faith. You’re a bigot of the highest degree and your bigotry makes you an intellectual fraud to boot.

          • MisterPine

            If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. Nothing you do or say here identifies you as a Christian or even Christ-like. Everything is hatred, anger and intolerance. As far as this forum goes, yes, it puts me in a VERY good position to tell you how far you are from being a Christian. Which is to say, miles. So don’t go talking about frauds, you wrote the book on that one.

          • jmichael39

            Considering the only people I’m “intolerant” of are people like you who come to sites like this to belittle, insult, mock and ridicule Christians, I can live with that.
            As for what you think makes a Christian a Christian…do you honestly think I give a rat’s behind what you think of me? You’re a fool if you do. You have to be the most arrogant person I’ve met yet on these sites.

          • MisterPine

            You tell people how to live their lives, but I’m the arrogant one?
            Smooch.
            Carry on with your model “Christianity.” “They’ll know them by their fruit?” Oh, will they ever, in your case.

          • jmichael39

            I haven’t told ANYONE how to live their lives. Show where I have done that?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Yeah, how many threads on this site go off on irrelevant, street preaching tangents?

          • MisterPine

            I find it offensive in the extreme when a bunch of holy rolling mouth breathers get high and mighty and warm me about the wrath of a God they haven’t got the first clue about. Street preachers is right!

  • Jodie Lynn Gaeta

    The professor’s anti-Christian bias is obvious, from his tone and his distortion of Christian doctrine- ” Christianity and its male gods”. That may be the way he feels, but couldn’t he alter his choice of words a little to avoid offending religious students? A little tact on the professor’s part could have avoided a legal battle( though it looks as if he was deliberately picking a fight )

  • George

    imagine if the student had been a muslim and the professor had asked that student to do an assignment going against their religion, there would of been an outrage, the university would have apologized instantly and given another assignment….

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Imagine if the professor had asked ANYONE to do an assignment that goes against their faith.

  • Bacchus

    obviously Professor Lance “L.J.” Russum is a deeply devout religious atheist.

  • NWaff

    Equal Access/Opportunity
    Polk State College is an equal access, equal opportunity institution committed to excellence through diversity in education. The College complies with all state and federal laws granting rights to applicants for admission to the College. Polk State College is committed to the equitable treatment of all students in a learning environment free of discrimination and harassment. Polk State College’s Equity Officer ensures compliance with federal and state laws prohibiting discrimination and sexual harassment. Students who believe they have been a victim of discrimination or sexual harassment should contact the Polk State College Equity Officer, Ms. Valparisa Baker, at 863-292-3602 or [email protected].

    • Paul Hiett

      ????

  • pogo46

    What’s the difference between a tenured professor and a terrorist ?
    You can negotiate with a terrorist.

  • George M

    Leave the school for good and start a boycott. When the muslim students don’t like some thing they have a huge protest outside of their school. Never see a large group of christians gather for a cause like this one. Where are the pastors from the area? They should be leading the way !

    • Paul Hiett

      Did you actually read the assignment, or just the article?

  • LeftCoast

    Grace, this dude should not shake your faith. Fake it for an A. Yes, fake it. I don’t agree with the pervert Sigmond Freud but I tolerated the class and got my grade and moved on. This dude is a closed minded fool and you are letting him shake your faith. Do the assignments, get your grade and move forward.

    • Paul Hiett

      These are the actual questions from the assignment:

      1) What is something Lady Julian is saying/doing that women should not be saying/doing at
      that time under the Christian mythos?

      2) From the article on the Nuns what makes their defiance of male dominance so important?

      3) Why did Christianity, and its male gods, want to silence these women?

      What about these questions is shaking anyone’s faith?

      • Ambulance Chaser

        I have no idea. Possibly the phrase “Christian mythos?”

      • Laurence Charles Ringo

        Since it’s my understanding that Grace was/is just a child,it would be fairly easy to shake her faith;besides,this professor showed an inexcusable ignorance of Christianity to begin with.All of his questions were designed to lead to a certain conclusion,not to reach one honestly.It showed the worst kind of bias,and since this so-called professor had an unfair advantage due to position and authority,this youngster didn’t know how to defend herself.It’s just that simple.Don’t ask the question if you don’t like the answer.

  • Tangent001

    Grace received an ‘A’ in the class overall. I see no discrimination.

  • ConcernedCitizen15

    God forbid little Xian girl actual learn something about her religion from a factual point of view. When she signed up for this religion class, she thought that she was signing up for goo-goo, ga-ga, Jesus, but instead she was asked to THINK. That is against Christianity – and is why goddy threw Adam and Eve out of the garden. She wouldn’t want to make that mistake.

    • James Von Borcke

      “That is against Christianity…”

      Against Conservative Christianity; us here on the ‘Left’ are quite happy with secular protections and intellectual pursuits. History shows rather well what happens to Liberal Christians when Conservative Christians are calling the shots (re: Library of Alexandria and the persecution of the Gnostics).

      Though I must say, there is an issue with the assignment I do take issue with, and that is Martin Luther being regarded as a Humanist. Granted, he ~did~ espouse certain ideas that fall under Humanism, yet his most infamous book, Of The Jews and Their Lies, shows that he felt these Humanist ideas only applied to the right sort of Human (which is further illustrated in that Hitler followed Luther’s instructions to the letter when implementing the Holocaust). Strangely, though, it’s not the first place I’ve seen him listed as a Humanist…

      That said, I’d say that Martin Luther’s Humanism was akin to modern Humanism the same way the USSR was to the writings of Marx and Engels; one must step ~way back~ so that the details get lost in the form in order to call them the same things.

    • mzungu

      Hi. Snarky uni-brow remarks are a trademark of Liberals. My guess is you are a low information voter that asked Obama to be your god.

    • Dax

      There, Thank you
      Summed it up in a short paragraph.
      But you know ,if they can’t get their own way it’s persecution time.

  • Tangent001

    You’re not in high school anymore, Dearie. College professors have much more latitude in regards to their approach to subject matter.

  • DreamTheaterIlluminationTheory

    Shoe on the other foot here??? Of course it is. It’s ok to call Jesus a myth in school and ok to promote atheism through course studies, but not ok any longer to study the Bible except through a group before or after school. And then we have the case of a young student reading his Bible during lunch, and a complaint from an atheist parent is cause for the student not to be allowed to read his own Bible on his own time. Here is what has been predicted in the Bible: 16“In the same way, the last will be first, and the first will be last, because many are called, but few are chosen.”

    To Christians: Please stay faithful and trust in Jesus. These young people certainly are and I applaud them all. It seems children stand up for their freedom of religion, shouldn’t we all?

    1“The kingdom from heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2After agreeing to pay the workers one denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3When he went out about nine o’clock,c he saw others standing in the marketplace without work. 4He told them, ‘You go into the vineyard, too, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5So off they went. He went out again about noon and about three o’clock and did the same thing. 6About five o’clock he went out and found some others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why are you standing here all day long without work?’7They told him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He told them, ‘You go into the vineyard as well.’

    8“When evening came, the owner of the vineyard told his manager, ‘Call the workers and give them their wages, beginning with the last and ending withg the first.’ 9Those who were hired at five o’clockh came, and each received a denarius.

    10“When the first came, they thought they would receive more, but each received a denarius as well.11When they received it, they began to complain to the landowner, 12‘These last fellows worked only one hour, but you paid them the same as us, and we’ve been working all day,i enduring the scorching heat!’

    13“But he told one of them, ‘Friend, I’m not treating you unfairly. You did agree with me for a denarius, didn’t you? 14Take what is yours and go. I want to give this last man as much as I gave you.j 15I am allowed to do what I want with my own money,k am I not? Or are you enviousl because I’m generous?’

    16“In the same way, the last will be first, and the first will be last, because many are called, but few are chosen.”

    • Paul Hiett

      Do any of you people actually read the information about this?

      • DreamTheaterIlluminationTheory

        Explain what you mean.

        • Paul Hiett

          The assignment itself, linked in the article. It lists the assignment, with the questions. In no way does it ask for anyone to violate their faith.

    • Jim H

      “It’s ok to call Jesus a myth in school and ok to promote atheism through course studies, but not ok any longer to study the Bible except through a group before or after school.”

      You are wrong, it is okay to teach the Bible and religion in Public School.

      In a series of 3 Supreme Court decisions in 1962-63, the teaching of the Bible was removed from the public schools as a required school exercise. Nevertheless, in those decisions the U.S. Supreme Court made it patent in their decisions that the teaching of the Bible in the public schools was both permissible and valuable as long as it was done in an objective way and as part of a secular curriculum.

      For example, in one of those 1962-63 U.S. Supreme Court decisions just referred to, Abington v Schempp (1963), the Court declared:

      “Nothing what we have said here indicates that such study of the Bible or of religion, when presented objectively as part of a secular program of education, may not be effected consistent with the First Amendment…”

      I think courses that teach comparative religion and study their scriptures is an excellent idea. People’s world views are often highly dependent on their religion views, so he have much to gain by understanding those views.

  • Ino Yamanaka

    Sweetheart it’s not “anti-christian indoctrination” to do an asignment that requires you to expand your mental perspective from just yourself, to many different versions, and also to push the boundaries of what you conceive as normal on a day to day basis….thats just a typical class in college.

    If I can make it through class learning about how jesus supposedly existed and learn about christianity and it’s tenets, yet still make it out the other end as an individual person with my own opinion, then so can you.

    • Jim H

      I agree. A lot of us have experienced a college professor who we didn’t like or agree with. Just like we have all had bosses we didn’t like, who came with a paycheck we did. I have to wonder about why, if it was that horrible, didn’t she drop the class?
      I had lots of classes in the humanities and didn’t have to feel like I agreed with an idea in order to explain it from the point of view, it expressed. You don’t need to believe what Nietzsche thought in order to explain.

  • http://www.google.com/ Jan van Niekerk

    What kind of stupid course deliberately sets out to distort history? Are there employers that seek out graduates from this type of course? Once students are skilled at lying about history and trained to parrot untruths, are they fit for some useful work, or are they expected to join a political party?

    Confusing “humanities” with “humanism” is hardly a laudable academic achievement.

    • James Von Borcke

      If her faith was secure, she could have learned about this alternate perspective in order to understand how other people view the world and the history of her religion. This is, after all, one of the points of gaining a higher education, to expand one’s horizons and see the world from a different place than before.

      However, rather than accept that other people view the world from a different position, she decided to play the victim after failing to learn the material because she took this alternate perspective as a personal attack. The problem then is the frailty of her faith and her need to have it reinforced rather than questioned.

      Of course, the Liberty Council knew from the start that this was a lost cause, but they’ve never been one to pass up a chance to push the We’re Being Persecuted! narrative. After all, they’d have to get real jobs without it.

  • Phipps Mike

    “The BCI is what I am obligated to grade you on. Your answers make it impossible for me to grade when you refuse to follow the course objectives.”

    Nothing more needs to be said. My wife as a high school student challenged her sociology teacher that women in Japan don’t ALL wear Kimanos as shown in the curriculum they were using at the time which by the way was copyrighted in like 1958. The teacher was angry at the challenge and gave her bad grades after that instead of just telling her that the curriculum required her to go by it for testing purposes. Even if the answers are really fiction, you HAVE to answer by the curriculum to get the answers correct for grading purposes. It sounds dumb, but its true.

  • Warrior

    16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

    17 These things I command you, that ye love one another

    18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.

    19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. John 15:16 – 15:19

    • rationalobservations?

      Quoting nonsense from one particular version of the confused, internally contradictory, barbaric and scientifically absurd old book called “the bible” – in no way validates or justifies that nonsense.

      • Warrior

        Psalms Chapter 145

        17 The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.

        18 The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.

        19 He will fulfil the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them.

        20 The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.

        21My mouth shall speak the praise of the LORD: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.

        • rationalobservations?

          Again:
          Quoting nonsense from one particular (human authored, human written) version of the confused, internally contradictory, barbaric and scientifically absurd old book called “the bible” – in no way validates or justifies that propaganda, and mindless, fraudulent nonsense.

          • Warrior

            Revelation Chapter 12 : 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

            2 Corinthians Chapter 4: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            The Word of God is ALWAYS good to quote,Warrior,but don’t forget what Our Saviour said in Matthew 7:6.—God bless you,and keep standing firm in the Lord.

          • rationalobservations?

            Let me know where this “word of god” can be read or heard. All I have discovered are many, many much altered and exaggerated books of words written by anonymous men. Starting in the late 4th century with the first attempt at a christian bible called “Codex Sinaiticus”. Look it up!

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            Sigh…you’re becoming tiresome and boring at this point,rationalobservations?—give it a rest,why don’t ya? You’re not seeking truth and you know it,so stop perpretrating this quasi-“theological”fraud,O.K? It may surprise you to know that actual,credible historians and Biblical scholars way more wise and intellectually gifted than you’ll EVER be have already sifted through the evidence(are still doing so,in fact) and have examined these issues and have reached significantly different conclusions from your own.So…again what exactly is your agenda here? The Christian Faith will NEVER be overthrown,my friend.Realize that,and go do something else.Your’re like some type of bizarre Don Quixote;it’s just…sad.Seriously.Seek help.Step away from the keyboard,clear your head,dude.You cannot win against Almighty God.You can’t.

          • rationalobservations?

            What is tiresome and boring is the insistence that the lies of all fraudulent religions represent some kind of “truth”, Larry.

            You once again attempt to hide behind the pitiful indoctrinated propaganda you once again fail to justify or defend.

            The good news is revealed by the latest Pew study of the ongoing demise of religion in the western world with the USA now rapidly catching up with the rest of us.

            You cannot win against evidence, logic and fact based truth my friend. You and your fellow dupes of religion are a dying breed and the now African voodoo religion called “christianity” will nodoubt go the way of all the others as education and rationality continues to spread throughout humanity.

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            Yeah…BIG YAWN…

      • Warrior

        Isaiah 5:20

        Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

        • rationalobservations?

          Ever since christianity was founded in 4th century Rome – folk have been tortured and massacred in the name of “Jesus”.

          Those 95% of the population of the Roman Empire who were devout followers of their long established and to them “orthodox” religions were told to worship “christ”.., or die. Their Temples and Holy artifacts were destroyed in the name of the Emperor’s new religion and thousands were murdered rather than accept the (to them) heresy of christianity.

          There’s too little space to list the whole blood soaked history of christianity – but 9 crusades, 300 years of torture and terror though inquisitions and the individual torture and murder of people like Giordano Bruno and the persecution of Galileo and mass murder of his students and assistants are just some of the horrors inflicted by “the church”.

          It appears to me that it is you who call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

          Thank goodness that the good news of humanitarian, humanistic, democratic atheism is spreading so rapidly across the free, educated developed world.

          • Warrior

            You have Christianity mixed up with islam.. True followers of Christ started when Jesus walked the earth. About 40 days after Chrisst death , burial and Reserection there were thousands of True Christians ( None were murders ) But were being murderd by The Roman catholics did all the murdering you speak of and they are Not the true church of Christ. If you had read the bible and studied history then you would know this. That is all I am saying to you but I know you will have to get the last word in so have fun.

          • rationalobservations?

            Reply awaiting approval.

          • rationalobservations?

            While my more detailed rebuttal of your assertions awaits approval:
            I have made a very detailed study of christianity’s history and a less detailed study of islamic history and in no way “mix them up”.

            I wonder why you have not studied the actual history of the religion that appears to hold you in thrall?

            Think of a christian publication, tract or text and type “oldest extant (name text or document)” into your search engine and see what truth you may discover. e.g., “Oldest extant Josephus” or “Oldest extant Tacitus” or “Oldest extant St Paul”.

            Nothing (NOTHING! No original text, no artifact and no archaeological evidence) that actually originates and dates from within the first century has ever been found and nothing more than a few scrawled words on tiny scraps of papyrus dated from the mid second century exists.

          • Warrior

            Get Behind me Satan…. I already told you there are True Followers of Jesus Christ and there are counterfits like the ones you want to talk about.. Why can you not find some atheist no god club to join and cry to and leave people of Faith alone satan.

          • rationalobservations?

            I will quit revealing the truth about fraudulent religions when those ignorant and gullible folk in thrall to those evil institutions (and the wealthy and cynical leaders of those institutions) quit telling lies and attempting to enslave my children, family friends and neighbors into their mindless cults and sects.

            I am happy to continue to spread the love, and enjoy the love of family and friends who form a peaceful, worldwide secular community. I am following my evolved human conscience in telling the truth and supporting the less fortunate members of our very recently evolved species of ape through charity and direct action aid.

            Thank goodness that the good news of free, democratic, humanitarian atheism is predominant in Europe and rapidly taking hold in less developed lands like the USA.

            You are a member of a dwindling and dying breed of the deluded. You have my sincere sympathy.

  • Tim

    Doesn’t seem very fair to me. Maybe the teacher could have given her a different test if this was against her beliefs. “This course in no way is a challenge to anyone religious ‘faith’ because it never addresses religion from the standpoint of faith, only from philosophical/political/historical perspectives,” Rossum responded. “What you hold as a faith system is your personal belief about the gods and goddesses.” I wonder what gods or goddesses Mr. Rossum is speaking about? It would seem that philosophy, politics, and historical perspectives is more about debating issues, which doesn’t look to be the class this girl is taking. Another strange quote: “[T]he questions assigned are not open-minded questions,” one of the assignments explained. “They instead are designed to lead course participants decisively to accept that Christianity is false and oppressive of women.” Why would a Christian want to take a class that would imply that Christianity is false, since this young lady doesn’t believe it’s false at all. Weird stuff.

  • mzungu

    This targeted Christians. There is so much more to the humanities than this bombastic approach that seemed designed to make people deny Christ in order to get an ‘A’. This is what Islam does only worse- deny Christ or die.
    The professor’s material is completely not scholarly in any way shape or form because it ignores documents, ancient texts. It had an agenda to change the definition of marriage instead of focusing on the life of Michelangelo and what made him who he was to do the things he did in the exquisite, honoring way that he did them.

  • mzungu

    Seem to be quite a few Atheists that haunt, brow beat, chastise, and ridicule on this news website. Not sure why they care so much about our future that they spend hours trolling us, trying to convince us to change our minds or tell us how dead wrong we are. I am truly puzzled since we are so weak and inferior to them how could we possibly represent any credible threat unless… Unless they are absolutely TERRIFIED at the possibility that Jesus might be real, that eternity is real, that eternal justice/reward is real and that their whole purpose for living is to try to reverse that, go back in history and abort Jesus in Mary’s womb to destroy an inconvenient truth. This is what Satan tried to do and, for the time being, lives outside of time. So if he couldn’t do it then a mortal atheist sympathizer hasn’t got a chance.

    Other than that I am going to go to church now and set up for class and maybe blow a few leaves off the sidewalk and do some pressure washing on the 2nd floor sidewalk. Have a pleasant tomorrow. Hope to see you in church bright and early.

    • Oracle

      Agreed. Scary thing for atheist is this, if we are wrong, nothing is lost but if they are wrong, well, we know the answer to that. Your are truly blessed brother.

      • Jim H

        That is just Paschal’s wager, and Paschal put it better.

      • Joe Soap

        Unless the Muslims. Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, etc not to mention any one of the 41,000 Christian denominations are right. In which case we are both wrong. When you think about it there are 7 billion people on this planet. 5 Billion of them are not christian of any denomination. So really the odds on you being right are extremely small and tend to make Pascal’s Wager somewhat redundant.

        I think I’ll worry about it after I’m dead. After all I would think worshipping the wrong God is worse than worshipping no god at all.

      • rationalobservations?

        There are estimated to be many hundreds of thousands of apparently imaginary “gods”, “goddesses”, “god-men” and other named assorted fantastical super-spooks dreamed up by men and appearing within human authored fiction – but never in the real world and infinite Universe.

        What if yours is not the “real” one? That real one will be really pissed with you.

        With regard to the confused, internally contradictory and scientifically absurd content of your particular old book of myths and legends called “the bible”:
        The total number of people killed by your “god”, or caused to be killed by your “god” runs into hundreds of millions. The number killed by “Satan” is only 10 in number according to that same old book. They were only killed sue to taunting by your “god”.
        Looking at the degree of mercy and love show to mankind – I know which deity I would consider worthy of worship. If – that is; I believed in any of that nonsensical and childish superstition.

        Thank goodness enthrallment to the totalitarian and anti-humanitarian politico-corporate businesses of “christianity” (and all other childish superstition based enterprises) is rapidly dwindling all across the free, educated, democratic and predominantly secular “developed” western world!

        Nothing benefits humanity so much as the good news of humanitarian, humanistic atheism!

        • Oracle

          Wow! Great response but your comment is the result of one who is spiritually discerned and lacks true understanding. Your human intellect and what you deem to be knowledge comes from man and not from the Holy Spirit. So to continue going back and forth with anyone who lacks the spirit of God will accomplish nothing but reveal the emptiness that is in man apart from the Lord. If you truly seek Him, you will find Him. Until then, you are lost for all eternity. Your bashing and attacks will accomplish nothing with me but show me how lost you truly are. God bless you.

          • rationalobservations?

            Thanks for the appreciation but your entirely personal opinion regarding this thing you call “spiritual” is baseless. It is shared by a very rapidly dwindling minority outside of the least educated and most superstitious lands.
            The western world contains a growing majority who do not believe the bunkum your once again fail to justify or defend.

            Far from being “empty” – my life, and that of most European and USA non-believers is overflowing with fulfillment and totally lacking in fear of any vile (and fortunately imaginary) “super-spooks” such as your “Yahweh”.

            It is you who are lost in a childish delusion. You have my sincere sympathy and good wishes in your pitiful state of enthrallment to a human originated and human perpetuated scam.

            Believe in LIFE love, humanity, charity and doing no harm and some good while you have the opportunity. It’s all that there is between non-existence and eternal non-existence.

            Have you ever considered the good you could do for mankind (and the world) if you joined the rest of us and didn’t waste your time and money on an exclusively self serving, exclusively human, politico-corporate enterprise of “religion”?

          • Oracle

            Your ignorance grieves my spirit brother. I will pray for you. You human Intellect is baseless and has no substance. Your words are empty of any life-giving knowledge. You have time to seek God. He is knocking on your door. I pray that veil be removed from your mind so that you can see the truth of the Gospel. Until then I would suggest you do not waste anymore time trying to convince me of your secular humanistic philosophy. Be blessed.

          • rationalobservations?

            Your profound ignorance and total lack of curiosity is sad for you., but bothers me not at all – other than attracting the sincere sympathy expressed previously.

            Keep you head deep in the sand and keep on repeating (in so many words) “I believe merely because I believe and I believe only in what I believe because I have been indoctrinated to believe what I believe.”

            Your words are devoid of sense and are not supported by a single shred of evidence.

            I am reminded of the whole populations who believed in a “god-man” who performed miracles, was hailed as the savior of mankind, was persecuted and killed only to rise again from the dead. His name was Hercules/Herakles and his legend predates by many centuries the confused and contradictory legends of a similar legendary “god-man” called “Jesus” (although no such Hebrew or Jewish name existed in the 1st century).

            If you cannot live without your childish superstitions and delusions., that is your problem. It is clear from all recent surveys that your delusions are rapidly dying out as knowledge and reason prevails more widely.

            Be calm, try to be less fearful – and enjoy the only life you will ever get…

            Best wishes and kindest regards to you and yours.

            RO?

          • Oracle

            You are living in spiritual darkness and because of that, you would not believe any evidence that I or any other believer would bring you. You would call our evidence coincidence or maybe have some scientific explanation for the miraculous. If you “truly” seek the Lord, you will find Him. Oh that I could share with you the many things I have seen with my own eyes. Even then you would still not believe me. Oh well, my prayers are with you. You still have time.

          • rationalobservations?

            Yes., your childish and delusional nonsense is familiar to me and many others and the dishonest and disingenuous bunkum you are too brainwashed, ignorant and naive to recognize – has already been comprehensively debunked.

            Keep your fantasies and delusions if it makes you happy. It is mostly through indoctrinated fear that good folk like you are held in thrall to religions however. That is very sad.

            Have you been honest enough to actually investigate the oldest extant bible after lying about being familiar with the “original Greek texts”?

            BBC report extract:

            “For 1,500 years, the Codex Sinaiticus lay undisturbed in a Sinai monastery, until it was found – or stolen, as the monks say – in 1844 and split between Egypt, Russia, Germany and Britain.

            Now these different parts are united online and anyone, anywhere in the world with internet access can view the complete text and read a translation.

            For those who believe the Bible is the inerrant, unaltered word of God, there will be some very uncomfortable questions to answer. It shows there have been thousands of alterations to today’s bible.

            The Codex, probably the oldest Bible we have, also has books which are missing from the Authorised Version that most Christians are familiar with today – and it does not have crucial verses relating to the Resurrection.”

          • Oracle

            Yes there are quite a few translation or interpretation errors in every English translation of the Bible but one truth is constant in every translation. That Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life. He was born of the virgin Mary. He was crucified for the sins of man and was resurrected on the third day. You must be born again. He was prophesied about in the Torah and all throughout the Old Testament. historical evidence proves His existence. At the end of the day, if everything I believe turns out to be false, then I lose nothing. On the other hand, if it turns out to be true, well, you know how the rest goes for you.

            Brother I want you to know that I have no ill feelings towards you and I know you see me as someone who is misled and brainwashed. I’m sure I cannot convince you otherwise. I will continue to rest in what I know to be true because of the many evidences throughout my life that are undeniable. I cannot prove them to you. Faith is my strength not man or his philosophies. Thank you for these conversations. If most people could engage in conversation without cussing and swearing and disrespecting one another, there would probably be less problems in this world. You see, we do not have to agree but we can respect each others beliefs or opinions. Have a blessed day.

          • rationalobservations?

            OK. You are self evidently totally unresponsive to any suggestion that you should look up the actual fraudulent history of the religion that holds you in thrall or the long slow evolution of the diverse and different confused and contradictory old books of legends and lies that are called “bibles”.

            As a point of interest:

            The so called “prophesies” that the bogus “god-man” “Jesus” is claimed to have fulfilled in versions of “the gospels” cannot be found within the “old testament” or any ancient Hebrew/Jewish texts. The actual messianic prophesies within the ancient Hebrew/Jewish texts exclude any possibility of the apparently fictional character “Jesus” as described within the confused and contradictory legends that evolved over many centuries starting in the 4th century.

            Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Hebrew/Jewish Messianic Prophecies

            What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

            Specifically, the Bible says in his own lifetime he will:

            Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

            Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

            Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4)

            Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: “God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One” (Zechariah 14:9).

            If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.

            Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible’s description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

            Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

            While you are gathering the courage to investigate the basis of the lies you unwittingly recycle – you may also wish to look up the meaning of the term “cognitive dissonance” and perhaps understand how it applies to you?

            Kind regards and apologies for the fact that you will never be so sure about the nonsense and lies you have recyled during our interaction. You had the option to disengage at any time so don’t blame me for confounding all you present but fail to support with evidence and fail to defend.

          • Oracle

            You still have time.

          • rationalobservations?

            You habitually ignore all evidence of the truth in favor of yet another anti-humanitarian lie.

            I was born with too little time between non-existence and eternal non-existence. Too much evil, poverty, ignorance, starvation, premature death due to curable illness and altogether too much anti-humanitarian and evil superstition of the sort you fail to defend and cannot justify.

            With many more summers behind me than ahead – I will continue to live, love, engage in charity, learn, teach and spread knowledge and truth whenever and wherever possible.

            It is because life is so short and exclusive that we humanitarians value it so much more than those who disregard all the dire need of humanity and put imaginary “gods” above and before their fellow creatures.

            One atheist working for humanity achieves more than a billion religionists praying to imaginary friends.

            Take a little time to contemplate the ridiculous and unfounded nonsense you recycle – and perhaps actually investigate some of the things you have learned from me.

            You still have time.

            Best wishes and kind regards to you and yours.

            RO?

          • Oracle

            Now you sound angry. Are you mad? I know someone who can bring healing in that area. Let go of your blind, atheistic philosophy brother. Your issue is deeply rooted but not uncommon. Stop kicking against the goad. You will find yourself in the listing side. I will continue to pray for you. Please don’t be mad. Be blessed.

          • rationalobservations?

            Ah., the old “I have no answer so I will attempt to transfer my own fury and frustration onto you” gambit.

            No cigar. That never has worked and never will work, pal.

            Pitiful

            Get a life and quit bugging me with your [email protected]

          • Oracle

            You are not seeking answers just arguments. I will continue to respond in what I believe you on the other hand can quite responding and enjoy what little time you have left in your fantasy world. Good day sir.

          • rationalobservations?

            You have repeatedly proved that you have no answers.

            Since you have no intention of addressing the evidence presented to you and the questions raised by that evidence, please quit bothering me with your feeble denial,ridiculous fantasies and childish superstitions.

            Here is some more facts for you to ignore:

            ” According to the legends written long after the time in which they are set; Jesus Did NOT Embody the Personal Qualifications of Messiah

            A. Messiah as Prophet

            The Messiah will become the greatest prophet in history, second only to Moses. (Targum – Isaiah 11:2; Maimonides – Yad Teshuva 9:2)

            Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry, a situation which has not existed since 300 BCE. During the time of Ezra, when the majority of Jews remained in Babylon, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets ― Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

            Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended, and thus could not be a prophet.

            B. Descendent of David

            Many prophetic passages speak of a descendant of King David who will rule Israel during the age of perfection. (Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah 23:5-6, 30:7-10, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:11-31, 37:21-28; Hosea 3:4-5)

            The Messiah must be descended on his father’s side from King David (see Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father ― and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father’s side from King David. (1)

            According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (2) nor will he possess supernatural qualities.

            C. Torah Observance

            The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

            Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), “He does not observe Shabbat!””

          • Oracle

            Now you are relying on man made ideas and knowledge without Holy Spirit led guidance. I can no longer help you and by the looks of it, neither can the Lord since your conscience and heart has been seired and hardened. All the more to keep you in prayer. God bless you.

          • rationalobservations?

            I feel sincerely sorry for you “oracle”. You cannot recognise how ignorant and superstitious you are.

            You have just a few of the facts and the mountain of evidence regarding fraudulent origin and fraudulent nature of your anti-humanitarian and ridiculous religion. You will never be able to rid your mind of that knowledge – regardless of how you attempt to ignore, deny or reject it. The truth IS the truth and you know it.

            You have nothing to say but just keep on repeating it.

            Quit while you’re behind and save both of our time?

            My heart is full of joy of life love and happiness. I pity you as yours appears to be filled with anger and fear of this “wrathful” and evil imaginary god of yours and the possibility of being shunned by the gullible and prejudicial group you are part of.

            I repeat: Quit while you are behind….

          • Oracle

            I’m not fearful because I know my destination. You on the other hand are my concern. You can hide your emptiness and unfulfillment with your life by attacking but in the end you will still be lost. My prayers are with you.

          • rationalobservations?

            I am not fearful because I also know my ultimate destination. It is brain death that will terminate my existence for eternity.
            The only thing that happens to any living thing after death is the transition to rotting putrescence, or into the white gritty powder that comes out of the crematorium.

            I celebrate LIFE before death. Your pitiful death cult is merely an abhorrent throwback to more primitive times.

            Now finally. Please quit bugging me with your [email protected]? You have nothing to say and no answer to anything that clearly confounds you but is compensated for by your profound cognitive dissonance.

          • Oracle

            That is so sad that you believe this life is all there is. No wonder you are so angry. The devil has a way of deceiving people. He has been doing it for eons. Anyways, I will continue to respond because believe it or not, I am deeply concerned for your soul. Call me crazy and delusional all you want brother. I pray you have a “Road to Damascus” experience like the Apostle Paul.

            Hebrews 3:15 (NKJV)

            “Today, if you will hear His voice,
            Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.

          • rationalobservations?

            That is so sad that you believe yourself to be some kind of immortal demigod merely trapped in your very recently evolved ape body and merely alive to be taunted, terrified and tested by some kind of malevolent cosmic-joker “god”.

            Your fictional “Devil” is just as nonsensical as your fictional “god”.

            As for being “angry”? No., not at all. Sad about your pitiful ignorance and gullibility – but not at all angry.

            I am always amused by the thought of a “Road to Damascus” experience. It was that kind of thing through which the scales of gullibility fell from my eyes and I recognised the christian religion of my heritage for the evil and utter nonsense it is proven to be.

            Why do you believe the confused and contradictory nonsense contained within all the hundreds of diverse different versions of bibles, yet deny and/or ignore all the mountain of evidence that confirms that nonsense to be fraudulent?

            If you can’t (or won’t) address any of the issues I present or the questions I ask., why do you continue to waste your time spouting nonsensical, empty and meaningless platitudes?

            Thanks for the opportunity of presenting some small portion of the evidence against your cult (and all sects and cults based upon the phony god-man “Jesus”). I recognised early that you are an intransigent dupe, or maybe even a sybarite preacher who earns his living by duping others. You appear beyond all reason – but others who take offence at what I present and follow it up may discover the truth.

            You may be the unwitting assistant in bringing the good news of rational, peaceful, democratic atheism to a wider audience who read these exchanges without engaging within them.

            I consider that it is often the single minded obduracy of those infected with blind faith, that leads others less obdurate to truth and peace in an increasingly secular world. Keep up that good work even though you appear lost in ignorance, superstition and foolishness.

            Thanks.

            Best wishes and kindest regards to you and yours.

            RO?

          • Oracle

            “Ape Body” thats cute. Oh the darwinistic mentality and false presumptions which provide absolutely no evidence of evolution. Yet, I am challenged to provide evidence. Well, my dear friend, even many if not most of the greatest minds reject evolution and most of them do not believe in God. Many of them do believe in an intelligent design. I would suggest a book called “The Case for a Creator.” I’m sure most scientist, doctors, physicist, etc in this book ,are more smarter than you and me yet hold the belief that life as we know is created and held together by an intelligence or should I say God. I know you will not read this book because it would crush all of your hopes and dreams of living a life with no accountably or responsibility. That being said, I will leave you with a quote from a couple of great scientists who does not believe in God nor evolution.

            “The likelihood of the spontaneous formation of life from inanimate matter is one to a number with 40,000 noughts after it. It is big enough to bury Darwin and the whole theory of evolution. There was no primeval soup, neither on this planet nor on any other, and if the beginnings of life were not random, they must therefore have been the product of purposeful intelligence.” p. 148

            Hoyle, Sir Fred, and Chandra Wickramasinghe, Evolution from Space (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1984), 176 pp.

          • rationalobservations?

            Since the increasing and progressive refinement of the science of DNA has added a mountain of evidence to the existing mountain of fossil evidence, no reputable mainstream scientist rejects the now proven fact of evolution.

            Here is the logic of just one of those scientists:

            “Creationists and Scientific Logic
            Prof Scott Anderson

            Creationists are of the opinion that creationism constitutes a better explanation of the evolutionary process? By what standard would they consider it better? Creationism demands that the logic of the scientific method be abandoned in favor of whatever logic one might be able to scrape out of the Bible.

            Special creationism demands that we believe that some six thousand years ago the universe was magically created, with the sun appearing long after plants, and man apparently living concurrently with carnivorous animals (perhaps including dinosaurs). It demands that all the planetary evidence that coincides with evolutionary theory (the geologic table, continental drift, erosion, et cetera), all the biological evidence (DNA, biochemistry, microbiology, anthropology, et cetera), all the historical evidence (the fossil record, archaeology, anthropology, et cetera), all the astronomical evidence (quantum singularities, the age of stars, the history of the universe, et cetera) has been misinterpreted. The evidence from physics and chemistry (the speed of light, the laws of thermodynamics, amino acids and proteins, et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum, ad absurdum) have all been misinterpreted. And I’m even leaving out several fields.

            They are all in error, I take it? Why, then, has it all seemed to fit so well? Was it a conspiracy, or was it simply science’s way of hiding the fact that they had no idea?

            Creationists still have to show that science is, in fact, wrong. This must first occur before they can begin postulating how the errors (as they must call them) persisted for so long. Creationists are more than happy to accept scientific reasoning but are unwilling to accept the conclusions. That’s why the battle is not creation versus evolution. Perhaps many creationists believe that, but it is not the case.

            The same thoughts and processes thereof that led to the theory of evolution exist in all branches of science. It’s called the scientific method. In addition, evolution gets direct and indirect support from a thousand different facts from every constellation in the sky of science. In addition, evolution gives direct and indirect support to every constellation. Science is not a batch of unrelated theories – science is a unit.

            To replace evolution with creationism would dictate that we throw out all the data we have about the age of the universe (all of it points to billions of years, not thousands). We would have to throw away the psychological data gained from testing on, for instance, lab rats. How could the data from rats relate in any way to the inspired, specially created souls of human beings? Anthropology would have to be dispensed with. Archaeology would find itself in the trash bin. Biology books would be so much toilet paper. In short, a thousand different independent but strangely cohesive facts and theories – a million tidbits of knowledge about ourselves and our world – would have to be destroyed in favor of magic and mysticism.

            We’ve been through that before – it was called the Dark Ages. I see no logical reason why we should return to them.”

            Keep your disingenuous and long debunked bunkum for those who are too ignorant to see through it….

          • Oracle

            But they still have no 100% proof of age in regards to universe. It is all theory. What is theory? Nothing more than a guess or someones opinion. Evolution is a lie and has been debunked. You do realize that genetic entropy rules out evolution right? Even Darwin himself doubted his own theory at the end of his life. Matter of fact, he said this about the human eye:

            “To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree.”

            But of course that was over 150 years so who cares right? I can conjure many mainstream scientist as you that do not believe in evolution so this argument would just become circular. The point is, you believe what you believe with no evidence and I believe what I do. One day you will know the truth, I just hope it will not be too late.

          • rationalobservations?

            Your ignorance is profound.
            You are totally wrong in confusing Scientific Theory with a guess or opinion.
            No modern Scientific Theory has been overturned.

            Religion is a lie that has long be debunked. religion is rapidly dying out in all educated and developed lands.

            Please stop reading (and trying to spread) the lies of the wacko creationists.

            You appear to be more of an ignorant, deluded and brainwashed moron with each line you write.

            Why not quit while you are so far behind?

          • Oracle

            Based on your language and insults, you must not have evolved past the neanderthal but then again, I do not believe in evolution. So religion has been debunked? Explain to me by whom and please do not let it be someone who is an atheist or the like. You have no evidence so continue on in your ignorance. Oh, and by the way, a theory is not a fact.

          • rationalobservations?

            Every scientific theory starts as a hypothesis. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, a hypothesis is an idea that hasn’t been proven yet. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step — known as a theory — in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon.

            Tanner further explained that a scientific theory is the framework for observations and facts. Theories may change, or the way that they are interpreted may change, but the facts themselves don’t change. Tanner likens theories to a basket in which scientists keep facts and observations that they find. The shape of that basket may change as the scientists learn more and include more facts. “For example, we have ample evidence of traits in populations becoming more or less common over time (evolution), so evolution is a fact but the overarching theories about evolution, the way that we think all of the facts go together might change as new observations of evolution are made,” Tanner told Live Science.

            Theory basics

            The University of California, Berkley defines a theory as “a broad, natural explanation for a wide range of phenomena. Theories are concise, coherent, systematic, predictive, and broadly applicable, often integrating and generalizing many hypotheses.”

            Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts. Facts and theories are two different things. In the scientific method, there is a clear distinction between facts, which can be observed and/or measured, and theories, which are scientists’ explanations and interpretations of the facts.

            An important part of scientific theory includes statements that have observational consequences. A good theory, like Newton’s theory of gravity, has unity, which means it consists of a limited number of problem-solving strategies that can be applied to a wide range of scientific circumstances. Another feature of a good theory is that it formed from a number of hypotheses that can be tested independently.

            The evolution of a scientific theory

            A scientific theory is not the end result of the scientific method; theories can be proven or rejected, just like hypotheses. Theories can be improved or modified as more information is gathered so that the accuracy of the prediction becomes greater over time.

            Theories are foundations for furthering scientific knowledge and for putting the information gathered to practical use. Scientists use theories to develop inventions or find a cure for a disease.

            Some believe that theories become laws, but theories and laws have separate and distinct roles in the scientific method. A law is a description of an observed phenomenon that hold true every time it is tested. It doesn’t explain why something is true; it just states that it is true. A theory, on the other hand, explains observations that are gathered during the scientific process. So, while law and theory are part of the scientific process, they are two very different aspects, according to the National Science Teachers Association.

            Additional reporting by Kim Ann Zimmermann, Live Science Contributor

          • Oracle

            I’m still praying for you

          • rationalobservations?

            I am glad to see you have quit failing to make any sense or argue a case.

            Your prayers will do as much good as those of the delusional believers who are faced with Tsunami, Earthquake, flood, famine or deadly epidemic.

            Utterly pointless prayer may salve your conscience – but it does nothing for humanity or the needs of mankind.

            Keep your worthless prayers my friend. They are no different from the hopes and wishes of those who believe in other gods and know yours to be false., and those of us who perceive the similarity between all human invented deities and recognise the fraudulent nature of them all.

          • Oracle

            I have no need nor desire to continue to defend the truth to you because your spiritual blindness will prevent you from knowing it. So whether you like it or not, I will continue to pray for you. God bless you.

          • rationalobservations?

            You have made no attempt to defend your indoctrinated belief in magic and super-spooks.

            You have offered no contradiction, refutation or rebuttal of the information I have provided.

            You have merely ignored or denied everything that confounds you and your fraudulent politico-corporate business of religion.

            Denial is not refutation nor rebuttal.

          • Oracle

            I have, you are just to blind to see it. It’s ok. Many atheist have the same problem. It’s funny because you are actually a religious person when you really come to think about it. One of the definitions of religion is: something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:

            So you see, your strong belief in evolution, secular humanism, atheism etc is your god. The only difference is, your god is a false one. Is not real and therefore cannot help you. So it would seem that you are doomed. But know that there is a way out of your lunacy. I will continue to pray for you. Have a blessed day.

    • Jim H

      Unless you had people of dissenting opinions posting here, what would be the point in posting at all. Wouldn’t you be like the manager who hires a bunch of yes men and is pleased that everyone agrees with him?

  • The Shoebill Is Watching

    Trying to score cheap political points isn’t very becoming. Why have you Christians sought to do so with great vigor ever since the merging of evangelistic Christianity and right-wing politics in the early 1980s? Why don’t you clean up your house a bit?

  • charles kriessman

    Get out of that College. It is virulently anti-Christian and you will not gain anything by being a target Try Pensacola Christian.

  • Tim

    Wow, after looking through the assignment and looking at the discussion between teacher and the student’s paper it does seem that the rules for the paper would be difficult for a Christian young lady to adhere to.

    For instance:

    WHAT YOU MUST NOT WRITE ABOUT:
    1. This is NOT about Luther’s theology
    2. Any quotes from his sermons or writings MUST be about humanism and how the
    reformation is in the right place and right time in history NOT some divine providence of
    the gods
    3. You must stay focused on the history of the humanism of Luther and his reformation
    IF You turn this into a theological debate or divine providence I will NOT read it and you
    will be given a zero.
    Instructions:
    This week in 4 paragraphs sum up in your own words Martin Luther’s humanism. Give
    examples of how he is in the right place at the right time to challenge the church and
    embrace the humanism of the Renaissance. Luther is a product of his historical moment and
    must be understood in his time. Describe how his reformation is a political act

    To write about Luther’s humanism without his theology would greatly diminish his work. It’s true that Luther was a part of an historical moment, however, its also true that he influenced people to follow him from the pulpit so to speak. After all he was a minister. I’m not sure how this assignment could be accurately answered without the inclusion of his theology. There would be a big gap in his approach, and the ultimate policies he helped mold for the black community at large working with Lyndon B Johnson at the time.

    What the girl wrote showed her intelligence and research. I would not have given out zero’s. It may have been better to consider her thoughts since it is after all a humanist class assignment. I think everyone should read the “assignment” link and consider yourself in the situation of teacher, and of student. I have to admit I was a bit taken aback by the wording of the assignment since it is such a narrow scope.

    • FoJC_Forever

      The professor asked her to deny the Truth of Christianity. The professor wanted her to write about it as though it is simply a man-made religion. This latter is a Lie and her doing so would have been her agreeing with the Devil, the father of lies.

      Humanism is founded in a Lie.

      • Tim

        Yes I did read the part about Jesus being included as a myth. Since I believe in Jesus Christ it would be difficult to do the assignment. I think her paper was an indication of her intelligence, after all she is 17. The assignment has very narrow boundaries. But I think the teacher already knew that when he designed the assignment.