New Pew Research Poll Shows Apostate ‘Christians’ Leaving the Faith

Bible Pew pdA report released this week by the Pew Research Center states that the number of professing Christians is in decline in America—statistics that some have noted indicates a falling away largely in denominations held to be apostate.

The organization released its report “America’s Changing Religious Landscape” earlier this week, claiming that “the Christian share of the U.S. population is declining, while the number of U.S. adults who do not identify with any organized religion is growing.”

From June 4 through Sept. 30 of last year, the organization surveyed 35,071 Americans about their religious beliefs, and found an eight percent drop over the past seven years in those who identified as Christians.

The research group also found that those who identify as atheists or agnostics, or didn’t have any interest in religion “in particular,” rose six percent. Growth of Muslims and Hindus in America rose less than two percent.

Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and Roman Catholics were all classified as Christians in the study, with less than one percent identifying as a Jehovah’s Witness, less than two percent identifying as Mormon and over 20 percent identifying as Catholic.

The study found a three percent drop in Roman Catholicism, as well as a three percent drop in what it called “mainline” Christianity. Mainline groups include the United Methodist Church, the American Baptist Church (U.S.A.), the Evangelical Lutheran Church, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the Episcopal Church— denominations that have largely been considered to be apostate by evangelical Christians because of their liberal and unorthodox stances on abortion and homosexuality.

These “have experienced the greatest drop in absolute numbers,” the report stated, noting that those identifying as mainline “may have fallen by as few as 3 million or as many as 7.3 million between 2007 and 2014.”

  • Connect with Christian News

And while there was a 4.8 percent overall drop in Protestant Christianity, the study noted that those who identify as evangelical Christians have declined less than one percentage point in the past seven years.

“[E]vangelical Protestants, while declining slightly as a percentage of the U.S. public, probably have grown in absolute numbers as the overall U.S. population has continued to expand,” the report outlined.

While some interpreted the release of the report to mean that Christianity is “dying” in America, others have stated that the information indicates that the wheat is being separated from the tares just as Jesus prophesied: that false converts are leaving the faith while biblical Christianity remains strong.

“Yes, the Christian cultural traditions in the United States are in decline. But that corresponds to the number of denominations that have actually left the faith,” wrote Erick Erickson of Red State.

“Sure, they still go to church on Sunday as ceremony,” he continued. “But they’ve drifted from a Bible-centered, Christ as God centered faith, to a secularized, civil religion of ceremony and secularized liturgy. Emo, weepy Jesus who bakes cakes for gay weddings has replaced the actual Jesus who spent more time talking about Hell than anyone else in the Bible and said He is the only and exclusive path to Heaven.”

“[C]ultural Christendom and actual Christendom are not the same. The former is dying off as its chief priests give way to the world,” Erickson stated. “Serve up fluffy, worldly nonsense as Christianity and watch the flock sniff out the scam and go in search of real soul nourishment while the poseurs get consumed by the wolves.”


A special message from the publisher...

Dear Reader, our hearts are deeply grieved by the ongoing devastation in Iraq, and through this we have been compelled to take a stand at the gates of hell against the enemy who came to kill and destroy. Bibles for Iraq is a project to put Arabic and Kurdish audio Bibles into the hands of Iraqi and Syrian refugees—many of whom are illiterate and who have never heard the gospel.Will you stand with us and make a donation today to this important effort? Please click here to send a Bible to a refugee >>

Print Friendly
  • Jade

    I will tell you why I left the church and may never return. My church was so homophobic that we left the UCC and became Evangelical. This move has caused the older members to leave and brought in many new religious extremist. The church now has “holy rollers” that wave their hands in the air, teach the Sunday School about dinosaurs that were on the ark and that the world is only 6000 years old (they make fun of real scientist), and speak fear to the youth group that the end is near. There library is full of anti-gay books/tapes and the youth leader tells any youth that comes out to him that they are going to hell. They love to speak of “blood and death” to the homosexuals. The church is obsessed with being antigay. This is an example of a church that will help the Evangelical numbers but really hurts Christianity as a whole.

    • smbelow

      2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

      • Sheadian Whilby Cantu

        our jobs then is to preach teach baptize….the rest is Gods..

    • John Lawless

      Paul stated it succinctly, “Do you hate me because I tell the truth?”

      • Sheadian Whilby Cantu

        for those who are His will tell the truth for the rest they are thieves and robbers

    • Coach

      Thank you for leaving. 1John 2:1919 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us

      • Jade

        You are exactly what is wrong with Christianity. With your religious blinders on you cannot see how extreme many Christians are becoming only to avoid accepting gays. To make your arrogant statement “thank you for leaving” is so nonCHRIST-like. Enjoy being with the goats.

        • Coach

          When you try to bring an anti-Christian agenda in the church and say “that’s why I don’t go”, you’re the one being arrogant, making it clear that you don’t believe the gospel, but the lie of “I can live my way and have Jesus”. You have missed the gospel and are following the doctrine of balaam. We can’t fit Jesus into our sinful lifestyle, we choose one or the other, which is why I had to choose Christ over entertainment and things in my life which misrepresented His name.

          In case you don’t know, in John chapter 6 where Jesus feeds the 5000, He shows and tells them plainly who He is and they don’t believe. None of those 5000 followed Jesus and He didn’t go chasing after them. John 6:66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

          Jesus said in Matthew 5:29″If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.”

          Your issue seems to be that of Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8, who made a false profession of faith. Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”

        • Homer for God

          I’ve been living the same way as my Christian brothers and sisters and I don’t approve. I’m sorry if you don’t like people who provide the truth of the Bible. Homosexuality is an action and a choice, just like adultery, pedophilia,beastiality and other form of what the Bible refers to sexual sin.Homosexuality is the current hot button issue, any of those will not grant access to the kingdom of heaven. Again these are God’s rule pass on by his son’s disciples. I can’t speak of the church you went to and dropped out of. I can say my church does not accept or approve of sexual sin and we will be the first to express it, but we don’t condemn anyone. We show the path that you can go down if one still continues the practice. We can’t make anyone go straight. We can only pray and allow God’s spirit to move.

      • Peter Leh

        “Thank you for leaving”?

        LOL what an example of Christianity to the “lost”

        hey coach did you learn that in EE?

    • http://www.google.com/ Jan van Niekerk

      So you left because you refused to repent and believe the truth. Jesus died to take away sins, how can you love sin? How can you hope that the sin you love will be given special consideration?

  • Dave L

    Jesus asked if he would find faith on earth when he returned (Luke 18:4). Also, in Revelation 20 after the angel (God) no longer binds the serpent (Satan) by the chain (Gospel), the Serpent gathers Gog and Magog (Anti-Christian forces from around the world) who surround the camp of the saints (the church throughout the world). Immediately following is the battle of Armageddon (end of the world by fire) and the creation of the New Heavens and Earth.

  • weasel1886

    I left because the church became about who you were politically not who you were as a person

    • Sheadian Whilby Cantu

      why don’t you try Jesus instead of your church

      • weasel1886

        I do

        • MightyMegan

          Go to a non denominational church. Make sure the Bible is being preached. At the very least make sure to be n fellowship with other Christians. Be viligant in the faith. If God approves of fellowship it must be good if you find the right one.

          • weasel1886

            I have only gone to no deno churches

    • pastoredsmith

      That’s why you became an atheist? Poor reasoning to allow flawed human beings to separate you from God. No, you left because you possessed no real, true relationship with God. You faked it, or else you were convinced by some idiot that it was all a fable and believed them rather than the truth. I pray you see the truth and come back to Christ. If you really did get some Bible training, that will stick with you forever and help you to overcome the misinterpretations you have been taught.

      • weasel1886

        I am far from an atheist and for you to stay that and other things about me when you don’t know me is ignorant and wrong

        • pastoredsmith

          You said, “I left because the church became about who you were politically not who you were as a person.” It is not ignorant to assume you don’t believe in God when you leave HIS church. Unfortunately, you are right that SOME in the church have become exactly as you described….but far from all. There are many of us who believe in a relationship first; with each other and with God, and that our political views are ours to share but not to force.
          So, if you say that I’m “ignorant and wrong,” please enlighten me.

          • weasel1886

            You claimed I’m an atheist without even asking me what I believe or knowing who I am

    • Peter Leh

      it happens. They can have the church. ill take jesus

    • http://www.google.com/ Jan van Niekerk

      The church had to be about you, or about those playing politics? Oh dear. Oh for a church that is about Jesus Christ!

      • weasel1886

        That would be nice

  • UmustBKiddinMe

    It appears the whole: “We’re the only ones who are right and if you don’t do what we tell you, you’ll spend eternity in a lake of fire” thing is getting a bit tiresome.

    • Sheadian Whilby Cantu

      as was the days of Noah…..hey warning your child that the stove is hot don’t touch gets tiring to say and hear but a good parent will do it anyway

    • Sheadian Whilby Cantu

      Take it up with the creator……don’t shoot the messenger……hey guess what 1/3 of the angels rebelled against God…..you aren’t very special……humble yourself and seek God you’ll find Him ……His way not yours…..

    • MightyMegan

      Either you know God or you dont. Either u b fooled by Satan or u value Gods will for ur life or u dont.

    • pastoredsmith

      It is amazing how many atheists and people who do not believe in God change their mind when they know their life is about to end.
      You can ignore the truth of the Bible, even mock and ridicule those of us who dare to believe its truths, but it doesn’t change a thing….except what fables reside inside your jumbled up mind.
      I pray you find Christ while you can.

      • Rebus Caneebus

        It is amazing how many atheists and people who do not believe in God change their mind when they know their life is about to end.
        It’s amazing how many straw people exist.

        • Lark62

          That’s just a story christians tell each other. That doesn’t mean it’s true.

          Do you honestly think that you cry out “the tooth fairy is real” or “there is a zeus” on your death bed? I will not start believing in fairy tales on my death bed either.

          • Homer for God

            We will see at the end anyway right?

          • pastoredsmith

            You will be in for a shock to learn who is a “straw” person and who is the real fool in this discussion.
            It is lunacy to equate God with “zeus” or the “tooth fairy.” I think that is atheist talking point number 4 or so. I recommend you search out the truth rather than memorizing talking points of fools as you only means of trying to insult someone who knows the truth about God. It makes you look like an idiot.

          • Lark62

            Then identify the evidence that proves that Zeus is imaginary and yahweh is not. Note – “someone wrote down words” is not proof.

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            I’ll remember that when you quote one of your great leaders ; or perhaps socrates, aristotle, etc. They just wrote stuff down too. How about the founders of this country – they just wrote stuff down, too. Should we ignore all they wrote as well? It is over 200 years old – so it must be irrelevant by now, I’m sure. As for socrates and other great thinkers – well their writings are even old than the Constitution and closer to the age of the bible – so guess we can just dismiss their stuff as junk too, right.

          • jcrosby35

            No you probably will not.
            Instead you will be in a drugged fog.
            You will mess yourself and be trying to hold on to the last breath not knowing what to expect on the other side.
            Hoping for annihilation and praying there is no judgement and hell.
            When the demons of hell come for you you will scream out but there will not be anyone who will hear you.
            Jesus Christ is Lord. And the truth will prevail.

          • Lark62

            Christian snuff porn is your thing. It always amuses me how supposedly loving christians exhibit near orgasmic glee when contemplating other people being tortured. Sick, but amusing. This is supposed to make me want to be like you? Perhaps not.

            I do not fear death. Your myths are every bit as imaginary as any other religion. I will not be wasting my final hours worrying about Zeus, Thor, Krishna, Yahwey, or any of the other 3000 gods that man has created.

            Sorry to disappoint you.

          • jcrosby35

            Well lark do not be to concerned. I am not the least disappointed.
            Your ignorant comment is typical and not at all surprising or disappointing. You are just another typical liberal with a lot of nothing to say. (Blowvation).
            Have a great day and don’t let the door hit you in the rear end on the way out.
            Jesus Christ is Lord.

          • Lark62

            Such kind and loving thoughts…. Thanks. 🙂

          • jcrosby35

            You are welcome. Bye

          • BarkingDawg

            You seem to get a perverse enjoyment out if your belief that those you look down on will be tortured in hell.

            You are one sick puppy.

          • jcrosby35

            And you are a barking dawg.
            And I am neither sick or a puppy. Get real.
            Jesus Christ is Lord.

          • BarkingDawg

            Jesus is a dead Jew who founded a cult based on the Greek cult of Dionysos

            Grow up.

          • jcrosby35

            Is that right? How about some good solid proof. You liberal people are a bunch of spoofs. Now back your comment up.
            Jesus Christ is Lord.
            Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
            Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
            Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
            Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
            Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
            Mat 7:29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
            You are a barkingdawg.
            And you are a barkingdawg, no more no less.
            There is no copy cat BS in Christ. He speaks on his own authority.

          • BarkingDawg

            BWAHAHAHAA

            Proof, he asks.

          • jcrosby35

            BWAHAHAHAA, you have no proof and your comments are so much BS.
            You have the right name. You are nothing more than a barking dawg.
            So BWAHANANAA, get a life if you can find one. Uhhhh, no proof of that either. Oh well look around, IT SHOULD BE ARF, ARF, ARF.
            Jesus Christ is Lord.

          • jcrosby35

            Prove it!

      • Croco Dile

        Are you a religious professional who no longer holds to supernatural beliefs ?
        Have you remained in vocational ministry, secretly hiding away your non-belief ?
        Are you struggling over where to go from here with your life and career ?

        Google : The Clergy Project

        • Homer for God

          No he is a disciple of Christ fighting for Jesus and standing up for the Word not matter the cost.

          • Croco Dile

            Then he should watch this on Youtube :

            Peter Boghossian – Jesus, The Easter Bunny and Other Delusions: Just Say No

            It will be fun 🙂

          • pastoredsmith

            No thanks. I prefer the Bible. It tells the truth. If you base your “truth” on this, no wonder you are confused.

        • pastoredsmith

          Are you a babbling fool who goes about attacking Christians who serve God with such idiotic nonsense?
          Perhaps your vocation in life is trying to prove that your twisted lack of beliefs are valid, only to discover at some point that you have been babbling nonsense?
          May I recommend that you accept Christ? Your babbling nonsense will dissipate as the truth of His Gospel sinks into your being with a personal relationship with the God who created this universe. Your messed up life will find purpose and direction, something that is apparently sorely lacking at this point.

          • Verisimilitude

            Still spewing the Christian “kindness” and “charity”, eh, Pastor?

            You are the very model for the young learning religion…imagine….they might think they could put others down the way you do…

            …and then they’d all love religion, because it would legitimize their putting down their peers, and their teachers.

          • pastoredsmith

            The only thing that I “spew” is truth. Vein babbling only leads to destruction.

          • Verisimilitude

            Sadly, you’re so off kilter, I’m wondering if you’ve been drinking.

          • jcrosby35

            Hey vermin.
            Have you considered and intelligent reply?
            I suspect not. Typical liberal. If you cannot beat them then slander them.
            Jesus Christ is Lord.

          • Verisimilitude

            …and you’re out to lunch….but, I adore your Christian aggression…

            …it’s just how Yeshua instructed you to behave toward others…

            …isn’t it!**

            ** well, tbf, Yeshua asked you to love your neighbor…
            …but you Christians have learned well how to slide-slip what Yeshua asked you to do…

            …so now, you only have yourselves to answer to.

          • jcrosby35

            Really and what did Yeshua ask me to do? Enlighten us. Book, chapter and verse are required.
            Save the liberal BS, I have other things I would rather be doing than being slandered by your likes.
            Are you my neighbor? Are you down and out in need of help? Do you even want help or do you just prefer to be noisy? Are you looking for a Good Samaritan, or more than likely just looking for someone to slander. Get real, you never even made it to the dinner table.
            Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

          • Verisimilitude

            jcrosby35: “Ok vermin”

            Now that we’ve established you’re a Christian, I’m curious as to why you would make a reference to Samaritans.

            Since Samaritans were not Christian, why would I seek from you the generosity of spirit by which this ‘bible’ characterizes them?

          • jcrosby35

            You are showing your ignorance vermin. And your evasion does not impress anyone.
            Jesus Christ is Lord.

          • Verisimilitude

            I’m wondering: When did you do the poll of everyone’s opinions?

            Or, is this just one more example of the Christian ethos at work…

            …i.e. make stuff up when you have no facts to support it.

            And why not?

            It’s worked well for the last coupla thousand years, so why not see if you can keep the b.s. rollin’ for another coupla thousand.

          • jcrosby35

            And I am wondering when you are going to get on subject and stop evading?
            You think you are going to hide in cracks vermin?
            Everyone is accountable before God and you are no exception. Death awaits you and then the judgement.

            Jesus Christ is Lord.

      • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

        Amen

      • Verisimilitude

        PastorEd: “…It is amazing how many atheists and people who do not believe in God…”

        Is it, “Pastor” Ed? Really?

        How many do that, just so we sure you’re talking the straight goods here, rather than being the typical Christian…

        …who fabricates facts without a hair of support.

        So, come on, spill the beans, Pastor Ed…how many do this so-called death-bed conversion?

        Numbers…percentages…you know the score…now, deliver the proof.

        • pastoredsmith

          I have no desire to argue with someone who is obviously sparring for a fight. I won’t stoop to your level.
          I am not hiding my identity as you are, “Verisimilitude,” whoever you are. Since the very word you use as a “handle” means “giving the appearance of being real,” you must be a fraud from the inside out.
          I’ll give you one famous death bed conversion. He was a disgruntled former preacher who set out to disprove the existence of God by disproving Creation. He spent his life dreaming up a wild-eyed, baseless theory and then renounced it on his deathbed. You might recognize his name. It’s Charles Darwin.
          If it’s proof you seek, the real proof for a person such as you will come on your own death bed. Your attitude will either change or you will break down the doors of hell as you continue to mock God and His people.

    • Homer for God

      Christians didn’t make the rules. Just present them.

      • Paul Hiett

        Actually, yes, you do, and you constantly cherry pick which ones are valid.

        • Homer for God

          No we did not!!!!! Read carefully. God sent it to Moses and Jesus to his Disciples who present it to the world. You Cherry pick to excuse yourself from accusing us of doing the same.

          • Paul Hiett

            Do you take your women to the edge of town when they are on their period?

            Do you require your women to remain silent in church as the Bible commands?

            Do you actually follow all of the rules set forth in the Bible, or just the ones you agree with?

          • Homer for God

            The edge of town is old law..doesn’t apply. Jesus gave us our own voice and never said women to be silent. I do follow the commandments taught by me, but yes I screw up too. I’m not perfect. Never claimed to be. But I repent and learn from mistakes and prevent repeat mistakes. Fact is I was taught by the Bible and I will grow through the Bible.

          • Paul Hiett

            1 Corinthians 14:34-35. What does that say?

          • Homer for God

            Again as leaders not prayer and praise…don’t twist

          • Paul Hiett

            Doesn’t say anything about leaders. Period. Not once does it mention “leaders”. If it does, I kindly ask you point it out.

          • Homer for God

            For someone who preaches common sense, you are not very good about using some. I’m sorry if life has to be spelled out for you for every little thing. I guess it shouldn’t be giving you that benefit for the future. God will explain it to you if you seek him(or if you don’t…that’s your choice).

          • Paul Hiett

            What your response says is that you know I’m right, otherwise you’d post the information with glee.

          • pastoredsmith

            We can read. Too bad you are trying to take it out of context and misinterpret the Scriptures. As a disgruntled Christian, you know what it really means. Tell the truth, atheist. If you have the ability.

          • Verisimilitude

            Of course it doesn’t apply…you’re just proving the poster right when he says you cherry-pick what to obey and what not to obey.

            Consistency and integrity are so not the hallmark of Christian ‘theory’…

            …it’s just a game of coming up with the rationalizations that work for you when you cherry-pick.

          • Homer for God

            Says the one who cherry pick to try to prove points. You want to focus on parts and not the whole picture which is part of this world’s destruction.

          • Verisimilitude

            OK already…you cannot answer the question…got it

            : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – )

          • Budlorance

            Typical non believer attacks and comebacks. They don’t know the Bilble, understand old and new covenant nor the importance of context. If they really wanted an answer they would do serious Bible study. Tit for tat comments do not a bible study make. You will not sway their opinion.

          • Croco Dile

            Go to Youtube and search for The Atheist Experience.

            All of your objections are answered many times in different episodes.

          • Verisimilitude

            “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law”
            –1 Corinthians 14:34-35

            And how do you skate out of that one, poster?

          • Homer for God

            Big difference here…We don’t name call. We love. Answer: It’s referring to leadership positions not prayer and praise.

          • Verisimilitude

            Excuse me…what has that to do with your ‘bible’ insisting women remain silent in Church!

            Answer the question…is Corinthians wrong? Or, is it right?
            Do let us all know…we’d be most appreciative.

          • Homer for God

            No you are generalizing again. Especially if you and Paul would think that women of that time or any time just sat in church without much of a thank you Jesus coming out of their mouth. You are so quick to make Christians look so bad By cherry picking verses yourself then attack us when all we have done is shown love and compassion through our teachings. You use hate to counteract love. And you want to teach that to our youth? Then you twist there anger to blame us? You ought to examine your own agenda’s and stop trying to figure out what you think is wrong with ours. Our agenda has and never will change. God’s message is timeless. You cannot and can never claim the same. It will all come out in the end

          • Verisimilitude

            I’m not making the Church look bad, it does that all by itself.

            Here’s another one for you…and Yeshua is QUITE SPECIFIC in where he states the Kingdom of God is…

            “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you”

            So, where is the kingdom of God, according to Yeshua, Homo?

          • Homer for God

            You try to make us look bad and you use hateful words to do it , and we are the bad guys? Your hate is what makes Gods love so much more powerful. I’m sorry you have such a disgust with us when we have love for you. You will not get me in a name calling match to try to get me to your level. The Kingdom of God is within me. Thank you for pointing that out. It’s within everyone who chooses to accept God and Jesus as their lord and savior. you don’t have to believe or accept that but if you don’t want criticism from me then don’t hate like you accuse us of doing. BTW, we are against the act of sin not the person. Think about that before you through out your childish name calling

          • Verisimilitude

            My deeply rooted concern–and the cause of my Passion against Christianity–is that you folks proselytise as if you had some monopoly on the truth.

            You insist your truth replaces mine.

            And that’s not only false, it’s arrogant and presumptuous.

            If you want me to treat you with respect, stop insisting your spiritual path over-rides mine.

          • Homer for God

            It’s God’s truth…we follow it. No one is forcing you to accept it and we are surely not calling you names if you say no.We show respect to you by accepting your decision ( if one is not, then THEY are the one that needs to change) If you want to accuse us of forcing you then you must accept the two way street of atheist teachings trying to impose on Christian morals.

          • Verisimilitude

            No, you do not follow this god…you follow the Christian god, a bad-tempered old man whom Christians have defined out of any rational existence.

            The Christian god has nothing to do with Yeshua, but is the work of man.

          • Homer for God

            That is the way you see it, not what it is. My God is love and my spiritual father. Cross your father and tell him he wrong all you want. I choose to obey and love my fellow man. There is a difference between being mad for no reason then being upset because the one’s you love continue to defy your authority. the latter being more painful to process and respond to.

          • Verisimilitude

            All you have to do to call me off is to have the richness of spirit to allow for the spiritual paths of others to hold the truth, too.

          • Homer for God

            I already have the spirit within me. I will claim my riches upon my salvation at the end of my body’s life. No more sin and no more fear with song and celebration of thank to the my Lord God is what I will claim. I will be in a new earth surrounded by my brothers and sisters of faith. Our paths will cross in the end.

          • Homer for God

            Forgive me but I never heard of Yeshua but it sounds like you and I believe in the SAME God. You seem to created a separate persona to justify why you are against God’s Word and interjecting that the same God but different name is true. Well so is Jehovah, The great I Am, The alpha and omega, Jesus, Holy Spirit, Emmanuel, and every other name God has gone by says the same thing In the Word.

          • Verisimilitude

            Yes, there may be some truth in that…but, lest you think too long on it, consider this: Alpha and Omega, yes…but, Christian god, as described by Christians and as represented by the words of Man in the bible…NO!

            And I still do not comprehend why Christians call Yeshua by the name of Jesus…that was not a name by which he himself–or his contemporaries–used.

          • pastoredsmith

            That is because you speak in lies and speculation, Verisimilitude. Whoever you are.
            Your “truth” is nothing but lies made up in the feeble mind of men. God is absolute truth…..and that evades your understanding.

          • Verisimilitude

            You’d be the expert in “evading understanding”

            Your ‘church’ specializes in it.

            How do you evade understanding 1 Corinthians 14:34?

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            And you atheists proselytize as though you had some monopoly on reason – so give me a break!! You talk about being a hypocrite and then turn around and prove who the real hypocrite is – you!!!

          • Verisimilitude

            There is no hypocrite like a Christian hypocrite…

            …you talk all sanctimony and love…

            …and then display anger, intolerance and disregard for the truth others have sought out and found.

            Please…as the pot, you have no standing to call the kettle black…

            …when your bottom is as black as the soul of your imaginary “satan”

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            Here is your hate right here:

            “So, where is the kingdom of God, according to Yeshua, Homo?”

            When did he/she start to use ad hominems and name calling against you?
            That’s right, he/she did not; yet you call us hateful.

            Project much???

          • Verisimilitude

            Please, don’t come the tyro [look it up] psychotherapist with me, it’s wasted.

            And, I started to take issue with Christian doctrine when I recognised you folks deny the truth of my spiritual path, and insist yours is the only way…

            …making me also realize you’ve discarded tolerance and reason…

            …and replaced it with Christian arrogance and presumption.

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            I also notice you resort to overgeneralization fallacies as well. Wow, that’s all I can say there.

            You claim we are full of hate – yet who’s the one using intellectual fallacies, projecting their anger and hate, and being totally self-righteous, hmmm?

            I have yet to say anything about your “spiritual path” ; only to point out the fact that you can’t seem to form a reasoned, or sound argument. Rather you resort to fallacies in order to make your illogical points. This has nothing to do with religion, my friend, it’s just plain inability to have an honest and legitimate debate on an issue – it’s philosophy. You know, Socrates, Aristotle, Descartes, Kant, Hume, etc.

            At this point, those great thinkers would laugh you out of the room; not to mention destroy you. It’s truly laughable to think that you think so much of yourself.

          • Peter Leh

            “Answer: It’s referring to leadership positions not prayer and praise”

            even if true. you telling me women have no voice and must keep silent to those in leadership?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Jesus never silent us ((((WOMAN)))). Jesun was very respectful to Women .

          • Verisimilitude

            Sorry, I was just quoting the bible, I’m sure you’ve heard of it?

            Anyway, here’s the direct quote commanding women to be silent in Church:

            “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”
            –1 Corinthians 14:34

            Good luck with your studies!

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            I have known some women who do talk in Church during the service. During service women should be quiet. But the Bible Does not say women are to be quiet everywhere .It is so funny how atheist men love to put women down using old test scripture. But forgetting the very strong women of the Bible. Including a woman Judge Debora. She got credit for killing the enemy. Because the man who should have done the killing would not go into battle without her. There are stories showing the importance of Women. But to many ((((HATE))) these stories and choose to tyr to hurt women through the Bible. Good thing I have read the Bible. All ofit old and new test. Shalom <
            🙂 Smile God loves you 🙂

          • Verisimilitude

            Totally! I gets it…you can choose to obey that which you wish to obey in your bible…

            …and if it doesn’t work for you, come up with a rationalization as to why it’s different now!

            That’s how Christianity works…you takes what you likes…

            …and you do only that.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            It is very sad that you hate Women so much that you will use Good’s word against them . But I think the Lord has let me know why . 🙁

          • Verisimilitude

            How can I tell you vote straight GOP/Tea Party.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Vote straight ?????

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Prayer has nothing to go voting . Nor telling Women to be silent …………….

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Shalom

          • Verisimilitude

            And salaam right back atcha, FreeBird!

            Forgive me if the combination of sanctimony and the distortion of Yeshua’s teaching sit ill with me….as a seeker of the Truth, I become concerned when I see see folks who’ve lost the way on their spiritual path.

            Here’s hoping you find a way back….insh’allah.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            One day you will understand the truth . I will Pray it happens before you die……….
            Shalom <

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Remember the Queen who chose not to be silent to save her people from death. If she could use her voice to save her people. Believe God will let today’s Christians will let Women use their voices to reach out to try to save the lost. God gave me a voice not to keep silent.But when I am in Church I will be Quiet in respect to God and Yeshua.
            Shalom <

          • pastoredsmith

            Cherry picking Scriptures makes no sense and confuses the true meaning, which obviously, you have no clue what it means.

          • Verisimilitude

            Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
            –1 Corinthians 14:34

            That’s hardly cherry-picking, sport…that’s a direct quote.

            Now, twist that from it’s actual meaning.

          • pastoredsmith

            Yes, it is cherry picking. You left out the rest of the chapter and all of the other teachings concerning women in the Bible. If you would take the time to read all of them, you would discover the real reason this verse appears in the Apostle Paul’s writings.

            The Bible also says “there is no God.” Yes, it does. In those exact words.
            Read it for yourself and be educated as to my point. Psalms 14:1.

          • Verisimilitude

            And still you insist the bible does not command women to be silent in Church?…and quote the lame Psalms 14:1 as if the bible actually declares there is no Christian god?

            You’d have been selling snake-oil in Utah in the 1890s.

          • pastoredsmith

            More wild speculation. Especially since it is you who are the snake oil salesman right now. Peddling babbling foolishness that makes no sense.
            yes, I fully challenge your wrong interpretation of 1 Corinthians 14:34. You know not what you speak, only what you misinterpret.
            You and your insults and wrong information please have a good evening. This discussion is over.

          • BarkingDawg

            In English, please.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Bark bark bark !!

          • BarkingDawg

            Woof woof, grrrrrrrr

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            hissss!

          • BarkingDawg

            I hear a serpent talking.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            Really.. Strange. Well the serpent that you hear could be Satan . Be very careful. I do not hear talking serpents.

          • BarkingDawg

            You are the one hissing.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            I used to have a cat as my Avatar , maybe it was her. Everyone thought I was a man. Even though the cat had a skirt on. I even had to add Lady to my name when I took the cat off. Cats also hiss. Shalom <

          • jcrosby35

            Barkingdawg you got it wrong. It should be little yapping mute.
            Jesus is Lord

          • BarkingDawg

            That’s the best you can do?

            It doesn’t even make any sense

          • jcrosby35

            Thats good enough. Says it all pretty clear.
            Jesus is Lord

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            The Lord wants me to Stand in the Gap for your soul. I have added you to my list.
            Shalom <

          • BarkingDawg

            Don’t do me any favors.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            I’m not . It is God not me . I love God enough to obey Him. God Loves you.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            The Bible is the only wat to go. 🙂

          • Verisimilitude

            But just remember that, as a woman, the Bible commands you to be silent in Church…

            …as a Christian, you are obliged to obey.

            1 Corinthians 14:34 may not just be referring to women speaking in Church, it may also limit the amount of noise you’re permitted to make…

            Here, just in case, a refresh on the relevant passage in Corinthians:

            “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”
            –1 Corinthians 14:34

            btw, a “wat” is a buddhist temple:

            “The Bible is the only wat to go”

          • pastoredsmith

            Paul, you of all people, being a disgruntled former Christian know what “cherry picking” is all about when it comes to the Bible. You do it masterfully. You know the difference between Old Testament Law and Biblical doctrine, yet you mix them freely in order to twist the meaning around. And, you know what Paul meant by women in the church, and your “explanation” is not even close. Try again….but realize that atheists never tell the truth and we know that.

          • jcrosby35

            What kind of ignorant questions are those?
            Do you really need answers or are you just a typical nosy fool?
            Jesus Christ is Lord.

          • Verisimilitude

            Bal
            der
            dash

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            You can say that again .

          • amostpolitedebate

            So I assume you advocate the US adopting the biblical rules for handling rape then?

            “If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.”

            Deuteronomy
            22:28-29 NLT

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            Your referring to old testament law demonstrates quite clearly your lack of comprehension of the Bible – good grief!

            In the beginning the word was with God. He gave His Word to Moses as Law on how to conduct oneself as an Israelite.
            As time went on and humans continued to disobey God; God came as a man – Jesus.

            He came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill the Law (to show us how to behave; since we didn’t seem to get it from the Word itself). He made a New Covenant with mankind.

            This New Covenant takes into account that no matter what we do we will never measure up to God’s Law – we needed a Savior. God wants all His children to come home to Him – All. The only way this could happen is through Him sacrificing Himself for our sins (in the old testament this was accomplished through sacrificing a an animal; in particular, a young animal without blemish – a lamb).Jesus became that perfect (without blemish) lamb. He shed His blood for the forgiveness of our sins – it’s a free gift.

            You can accept this gift, or you can reject it – the choice is yours. However just like with any choice we have, there are consequences for choosing poorly. God wants you to choose wisely, and therefore, provided a book covering every detail of life, Covenant Law, and instruction you need to make that choice. It’s like reading the menu at a restaurant, or instruction manual before choosing to eat, or operate a chainsaw.

            If yoy choose poorly, your meal may not be enjoyable. If you choose to operate the chain saw without following the directions you could get hirt, or even killed. That is the purpose of the Bible; it’s an instruction manual for life and a synopsis of the history of mankind from its beginnings; along with all mankind’s mistakes.

            I dare ask, do you read an instruction manual for operating a chainsaw with the same conclusions as you do the Bible? Or do you fear the potential injury or death persuent to its misuse; and therfore adhere I to its precautions with fervor? Disregarding, misconstrueing, or selectively reading (cherry picking) just one precaution of that chainsaws manual could cost you your life. Well the same us true for the Bible.

            Do you get angry at the manufacturer of the chainsaw when you get injured because you didn’t follow the instructions for safe operation? Do you get mad at someone who instructs on the proper and safe use of a chainsaw? Of course not! So why do you get angry at Christians who explain God’s instruction manual for good living? Why do you pick and choose the verses, rather than read the entire instruction manual with it’s contextual meaning intact?

            I dare to surmise, through deductive and inductive reasoning, that if you read all instruction manuals as you do the Bible – then you probably wouldn’t or won’t live very long. And that’s pretty sad, but speaks volumes to the tragedy of human ignorance we see everyday. Not to mention, the pure arrogance necessary to think you are without need of instruction and guidance.

          • amostpolitedebate

            I’m actually quite familiar with the school of thought that states that Jesus negated the OT laws. This argument however has 2 huge flaws:

            1) Jesus erasing OT laws doesn’t change the fact that in a certain time and place your perfect and loving God thought it was a good idea to kill a rape victim because they didn’t scream loud enough.

            2) Christians still cite OT scripture condemning Christianity all the time so pointing out that there are countless OT laws they flagrantly ignore is fair game.

            Also: There are many ways to learn how to operate a chainsaw if the manual is missing. For example you can look at it’s parts and understand it’s function, then from that knowledge piece together a pretty good set of usage guidelines (avoid touching the angry sharp bit). Plus this particular chainsaw has been in use for some time. We can look at the history of the people who used it and avoid any mistakes others have made. It’s really not that complicated.

            Also Also: LOL! You just compared gay marriage to operating a chainsaw irresponsibly.

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            Ummm, please tell me where I said Jesus came to abolish the Law? And please tell me where I mentioned gay marriage in my post here? Please quote your references from my post with quotes.
            In addition, please quote tge scripures in which you are referncing in the OT. Much thanks.

          • amostpolitedebate

            …If you say so dude:

            “If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.”

            -Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB

            Also I thought that’s what you were arguing? That the OT laws don’t apply to modern Christians because Jesus came and “fulfilled” it, thus hitting the supernatural reset button on the Christian rulebook. I could be mistaken though. You’re posts are pretty hard to decipher.

            If I am mistaken, can I then assume you advocate murdering rape victims with large rocks because they didn’t scream loudly enough?

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            Assuming makes an ass out of you and me. If you want clarification, then ask for it. Moreover, it is obvious that I am talking over your head since you can’t “decipher” my posts; yet you try and come off as such an intellectual, funny.
            And the last time I checked, I was ALL woman, so show some respect to a lady – if you even know what that means!
            Finally, as with any reading it is necessary to consider the historical and textual context of the writing. You would know this had you studied any historical texts, took an English literature class, and a history class. You CANNOT take a single verse/paragraph and decipher the context of a writing or writer. But then again, you struggle to “decipher” a post written in modern English and times; therefore this speaks volumes.
            It has become quite clear that you are out of your league here; and perhaps the best thing you could do is study, research, and learn before attempting to debate that which you cannot decipher or comprehend. Good luck in your studying.

          • BarkingDawg

            God told me that you are wrong.

      • Lark62

        Eat any bacon cheeseburgers lately? Do any yard work last Saturday?

        You ignore rules that would inconvenience you while hammering rules that allow you to feel superior. And you don’t even realize everyone sees right through your hypocrisy.

        • Homer for God

          Clearly ignoring the teachings of Jesus and using history (which you think non-existent which is also as ignorant of thinking since you are contradicting yourself) as your basis of point. Those laws were abolished. Re read it again lark.

      • UmustBKiddinMe

        “Christians didn’t make the rules”

        Agreed. They just think they have unique insight into what they are.

        • Homer for God

          Just like Prison guards, CEO’s, Politicians, and anyone else that twists authority for self serving purposes. God rules have been in play over 2000 years. Those of authority can try to twist it, but the truth always comes through.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            Yes, because goodness knows the Church has never twisted authority for self-serving purposes.

          • Homer for God

            religions do yes
            Not God

        • Jean-Marie Hendricks

          I’m sure you have unique insight into something I don’t know. Maybe you are a machine operator or race car driver; I don’t know. Regardless, I would accept your instruction on how to do those things from you because I accept that I am ignorant in those areas. Do we attack the teacher because he or she instructs us on how to add 2+2, or how to spell mississippi? Or do we accept that there are some things we need instruction in from someone who knows these things?

          I’m sorry, but your reasoning is seriously flawed!

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            There is a difference between matters of fact and matters of faith.

            In what way is my reasoning “seriously flawed”?

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            When you entered a classroom for the first time you did not know those facts, they had to be taught to you by someone, a teacher. So you at least had to have trust that the teacher knew what he or she was talking about (and by the way a piece of paper does not prove one is intelligent and capable). Why did you trust her? Was it because what she taught you made sense, or was it because she had studied and been doing it for much longer than you?
            What I am trying to get at here is that you put trust in people all the time; who have studied at college, or have experience beyond your own. However, you don’t attack these people when they instruct you, do you? When they explain you are doing something wrong, do you attack verbally or physically? I’m sure you don’t. So why Christians? I’m certainly not saying that all Christian’s are good (believe me the Westboro Baptists are sick!); but most are good people.
            Just like some teachers are bad and should not be allowed to teach; or some doctors are bad and shouldn’t be allowed to practice medicine. But again most are good people who do good work and want to help people. That is what I was getting at with your flawed reasoning.
            We trust people everyday and don’t attack them when they correct, or instruct us; yet Christians are frequently attacked verbally (physically in other countries) for trying to teach what God says is the right way to live. Do you see what I’m trying to say? I’m really not trying to be mean or nasty to you; I’m just trying to understand, really.
            And thank you for responding with courtesy and respectfully. I really appreciate that. Good day to you.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            “So you at least had to have trust that the teacher knew what he or she was talking about”

            Yes I did. However, what was taught to me was agreed to by others. No one said: “No, 2+2 does not equal 4”. The information I was taught was factual, verifiable, and universally accepted. That is not the case with matters of faith.

            “However, you don’t attack these people when they instruct you, do you?”

            Of course I didn’t “attack” them. I did, at times, question them. I did not blindly accept that what they said was true simply based on their saying it was.

            “So why Christians?”

            I don’t verbally or physically attack Christians, or anyone for that matter.

            “But again most are good people who do good work and want to help people.”

            I am in complete agreement with that.

            “yet Christians are frequently attacked verbally (physically in other countries)”

            There is no excuse for people being “attacked”. Disagreement, in and of itself, does not, however, equate to an attack.

            “for trying to teach what God says is the right way to live.”

            Which right way? The right way according to Catholics? Baptists? Southern Baptists? Mormons? Amish? Mennonites? Methodists? Christians can’t come to agreement on what the “right way to live” is.

            Yet, despite their inability to agree, they feel that it is reasonable to require others to be limited in their freedoms and rights based upon the Christian belief system…..which they can’t even agree upon. They think that since they have chosen to adhere to the Christian faith that the Bible is definitively true and all other views are false. In other words, as I said in my post above: They just think they have unique insight into what they [the rules] are.

            Because you have chosen to believe that the Bible contains the word of God, does not mean that it does. It may…it may not. None of us will know for certain until we die. Until then, it is a matter of faith, not fact.

            “And thank you for responding with courtesy and respectfully. I really appreciate that. Good day to you.”

            You are quite welcome. Right back at ya.

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            My point was not to accuse you of anything; and if it came across that way, then I apologize. I was just trying to make the connection that we trust people all the time. Sometimes because of their status or position in our society (teachers, pastors/priests, lawyers, governments, police officers, scientists, etc.) You are right to question everything; and I am glad that you do. Even God said in the Bible “let us reason together” (can not recall the exact scripture; but will be glad to provide it if you insist).
            My comment about attacked was generalized within the emotional, verbal, and psychological sense; however, I should have specified that, I apologize. Moreover, you personally have not “attacked” anyone, and if it appeared I was accusing you of that, I apologize again. As to your comment about the “right way;” well that is most certainly an issue. Let me explain where I think that is and you can decide if it is acceptable to you or not.
            There is only one “right way” and the Bible is quite clear on that; unfortunately not everyone reads the Bible and understands/comprehends properly. I am going to refer to an analogy again; however, forgive me if it is not the greatest as I have only had one cup of coffee as of yet this morning; therefore I am a little foggy still. Okay so for the groggy analogy.
            When a student reads a text, he or she may come to a different conclusion about the subject, or even misunderstand the context all together. However, we do not blame the teacher for the students lack of understanding (at least not yet). The first indication that the student is not comprehending the subject would be their grades, and work. This should spur the student to speak with the teacher about the subject so s/he comes to comprehend what s/he is not understanding, or comprehending. If the student does this and still does not comprehend, then s/he should seek outside sources; such as a friend who is doing well in class, or another mentor/tutor. If the student still is not doing well, then we must begin to look at the teacher (how is the subject being taught, are other students struggling in the class, etc.). However, we would never immediately blame the teacher for the problem without investigating the student first. Why? Because a lot; not all, but a lot of times the problems is with the student. Perhaps s/he has failed to address the bad grades and ask the teacher what or where they are going wrong; not reading the subject matter, not paying attention in class, etc. This tends to be a lot of the problem with the varying sects of Christianity.
            The Bible is written for believer and nonbeliever. It is written for every single person out there; so that they may understand. Unfortunately, not everyone comprehends it as they should – that takes lots of study. Kind of like physics, it is a complicated subject matter and requires lots of study of terminology, reading, and practice ( I get the basics of physics; but outside of that, I’m lost, because I don’t understand all the terminology. It’s not to say I couldn’t learn it, It’s just not something I have studied on a lot; nor is it my field). The Bible states a clear directive on what is right and what is wrong. It states that we should not become people of this world; but to become people of heaven. To me it is not complicated because I have spent many hours studying it; spent time with the teacher when I am confused, and surround myself with the subject matter in order to better understand. Have there been times when I was confused or misunderstood a scripture? Absolutely. However, the problem is not with the teacher here – it’s with the student/s. Again, we don’t blame the teacher for the problem until we study the student. Many times the problem lies with the student and their misunderstanding of the subject matter. These same students run around telling others their misunderstanding and leave people like you standing there shaking your head. I understand, believe me. Now, I am not claiming to be an expert here, I am just explaining my hypothesis on the issue. I believe that the problems associated with the interpretation (“right way”) are at the heart of the issue, and not the teacher (God and His word). I hope that clears that up, if not, then please ask as I will be more than happy to elaborate as best I can. Now, if I may be so bold, may I ask for some clarification from you?
            Would you mind explaining to me then; what it is that is so disagreeable about the Bible, and its instruction? Is it that some of the laws appear on the surface to be crude, or is it that they do not fit with your personal lifestyle?
            I ask the later question knowing that initially I did not understand them either and was offended by them; not because I am trying to convert or insinuate anything about you. I am just looking to understand where you are coming from. I really and truly care.
            It is my belief; and yes it is only a belief that could be way off the mark, that the difficulties between believers and nonbelievers is how we speak to one another (not just insults; but also semantics.) I don’t know if I have made any sense to you or not. Again, I am sorry; but I just now on my second cup of coffee, and I am slow to wake up, lol. Good day, friend, and I hope we can speak again in the very near future. 🙂

      • Peter Leh

        when they do make the rules… notice they have over stepped their bounds.

      • amostpolitedebate

        Oh please. I bet you don’t even follow the proper biblical protocol for beating your slaves.

    • Peter Leh

      tiresome indeed.

      chrisitans have nothing to prove but love their neighbor, make the world a better place and let god bring into the fold who is his.

      but it is easier just to tell our neighbor than to love our neighbor

    • Verisimilitude

      …a “bit”? ROFLMAO

    • jcrosby35

      You think anyone is kidding you? Then you are playing the fool and kidding yourself.
      I have heard your BS before and it will get you nothing other than judgement and hell.
      If anything is tiresome it is your ignorant blowvations.
      You have a problem with the Word of God and Christians? Then deal with it at your own expense, I am not interested. You make your choices and I will do the same.
      Jesus Christ is Lord.

      • UmustBKiddinMe

        “I have heard your BS before and it will get you nothing other than judgement and hell.”

        You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

        “If anything is tiresome it is your ignorant blowvations.”

        Then you should stop reading them.

        “You have a problem with the Word of God and Christians?”

        Nope

        “I am not interested.”

        Then why did you respond to me?

        “Jesus Christ is Lord.”

        You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

        • jcrosby35

          Well thank you so much for allowing me my opinion. And like wise to you. But the good news is that when it comes to Jesus Christ being Lord opinions do not matter. He is not running for office or looking to win a popularity contest. Jesus Christ is Lord and that is the fact of the matter. Heaven and earth may pass away by My Word will never pass away.
          And regardless if you are interested or not you will bow the knee to Him and confess He is Lord to the glory of God.
          It would be far better for you to get a little understanding of the Word of God and build a personal relationship now. You are going to meet Him either as Savior or Judge. That is up to you presently. Like all, your time will end (fact) all are appointed to die and then the judge ment.
          You might want to get a little rest and some control on your emotions. A clear mind helps eliminate contradictions and blowvations.
          Have a great day.
          Jesus Christ is Lord.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            “Jesus Christ is Lord and that is the fact of the matter.”

            No, that is the faith of the matter.

            “It would be far better for you to get a little understanding of the Word of God and build a personal relationship now.”

            I have, and have had, a very personal relationship with God.

            “A clear mind helps eliminate contradictions and blowvations.”

            What contradiction and “blowvations” are you referring to?

          • jcrosby35

            Do you understand what faith is?
            Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him as righteousness. Rom. 4
            Faith is the horse that motivates the cart of grace. By which we are saved. Eph. 2:8-10
            Faith is the positive action you apply to your beliefs. The fruit of your salvation. James 2
            And the greatest of all faith is Hebrews 11:1-6. You are not going to please God without it.
            Faith is not blind or half hazard, Rom. 12.
            It is by faith you come to the conclusion to be saved and serve God.
            Faith is the gift of God to us. We believe and we act accordingly. 1 Co. 12.
            There are no contradiction or blowvations in faith, either you believe and make Jesus Christ Lord in your life or you do not.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            “Do you understand what faith is?”

            Yes, I do.

            So you can’t cite any contradictions or “blowvations” from my post. Got it. Thanks.

          • jcrosby35

            Mat 7:13 Go in through the narrow gate. The gate to destruction is wide, and the road that leads there is easy to follow. A lot of people go through that gate.
            Mat 7:14 But the gate to life is very narrow. The road that leads there is so hard to follow that only a few people find it.
            Mat 7:15 Watch out for false prophets! They dress up like sheep, but inside they are wolves who have come to attack you.
            Mat 7:16 You can tell what they are by what they do. No one picks grapes or figs from thornbushes.
            Mat 7:17 A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit.
            Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit.
            Mat 7:19 Every tree that produces bad fruit will be chopped down and burned.
            Mat 7:20 You can tell who the false prophets are by their deeds.
            Mat 7:21 Not everyone who calls me their Lord will get into the kingdom of heaven. Only the ones who obey my Father in heaven will get in.
            Mat 7:22 On the day of judgment many will call me their Lord. They will say, “We preached in your name, and in your name we forced out demons and worked many miracles.”
            Mat 7:23 But I will tell them, “I will have nothing to do with you! Get out of my sight, you evil people!”
            Mat 7:24 Anyone who hears and obeys these teachings of mine is like a wise person who built a house on solid rock.
            Mat 7:25 Rain poured down, rivers flooded, and winds beat against that house. But it did not fall, because it was built on solid rock.
            Mat 7:26 Anyone who hears my teachings and doesn’t obey them is like a foolish person who built a house on sand.
            Mat 7:27 The rain poured down, the rivers flooded, and the winds blew and beat against that house. Finally, it fell with a crash.
            Mat 7:28 When Jesus finished speaking, the crowds were surprised at his teaching.
            Mat 7:29 He taught them like someone with authority, and not like their teachers of the Law of Moses.

            I have, and have had, a very personal relationship with God.
            I would suggest you repent and go back to that personal relationship with Christ. Without it you are going nowhere.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            “I would suggest you repent and go back to that personal relationship with Christ”

            God and Christ aren’t one in the same?

          • jcrosby35

            “I have had,
            Yes you have had a personal relationship with God.

            Rev 2:4 But I do have something against you! And it is this: You don’t have as much love as you used to.
            Rev 2:5 Think about where you have fallen from, and then turn back and do as you did at first. If you don’t turn back, I will come and take away your lampstand.
            Is Jesus still your Lord and Savior? And do you proclaim Him Lord in your life and works. Do your fruits show your Christian life?

            Rom 10:9 So you will be saved, if you honestly say, “Jesus is Lord,” and if you believe with all your heart that God raised him from death.
            Rom 10:10 God will accept you and save you, if you truly believe this and tell it to others.
            Rom 10:11 The Scriptures say that no one who has faith will be disappointed,
            Rom 10:12 no matter if that person is a Jew or a Gentile. There is only one Lord, and he is generous to everyone who asks for his help.
            Rom 10:13 All who call out to the Lord will be saved.
            Jesus Christ is Lord. And that is a fact.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            “Jesus Christ is Lord. And that is a fact.”

            You are certainly free to believe that if you want to. Your believe, however, does not result in something becoming fact.

          • jcrosby35

            Everyone will believe when they stand before the Lord in judgement.
            And that is a fact.
            Jesus Christ is Lord.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            Perhaps

          • jcrosby35

            You want to bet you soul on it?
            Jesus Christ is Lord

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

          • jcrosby35

            Everyone is entitled to their opinion and responsible for making it.
            It is called accountability. Are you ready to stand accountable for yours?
            Jesus Christ is Lord.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            “Are you ready to stand accountable for yours?”

            Yes.

            “Jesus Christ is Lord.”

            In your opinion.

          • jcrosby35

            And who do you say Jesus Christ is?
            Jesus Christ is Lord.

          • jcrosby35

            You want fact?
            Joh 3:3 Jesus replied, “I tell you for certain that you must be born from above before you can see God’s kingdom!”
            Joh 3:4 Nicodemus asked, “How can a grown man ever be born a second time?”
            Joh 3:5 Jesus answered: I tell you for certain that before you can get into God’s kingdom, you must be born not only by water, but by the Spirit.
            Joh 3:6 Humans give life to their children. Yet only God’s Spirit can change you into a child of God.
            Joh 3:7 Don’t be surprised when I say that you must be born from above.
            Joh 3:8 Only God’s Spirit gives new life. The Spirit is like the wind that blows wherever it wants to. You can hear the wind, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it is going.
            Only when you are truly born again and filled with the Holy Spirit will you have the relationship you need to enter the Kingdom of God.
            Jesus Christ is Lord.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            Those are fact. They are statements from the Bible. Believing they are true is a matter of faith.

          • jcrosby35

            Have you got faith. The Word of God tells us that every person is given a measure of faith. (Ability to believe) if they choose to act upon it.
            Always a matter of free will. But never the less offered with the promise that God will honor those who chose to act upon it.
            Rom 10:6 But people whose faith makes them acceptable to God will never ask, “Who will go up to heaven to bring Christ down?”
            Rom 10:7 Neither will they ask, “Who will go down into the world of the dead to raise him to life?”
            Rom 10:8 All who are acceptable because of their faith simply say, “The message is as near as your mouth or your heart.” And this is the same message we preach about faith.
            Rom 10:9 So you will be saved, if you honestly say, “Jesus is Lord,” and if you believe with all your heart that God raised him from death.
            Rom 10:10 God will accept you and save you, if you truly believe this and tell it to others.
            Rom 10:11 The Scriptures say that no one who has faith will be disappointed,
            Rom 10:12 no matter if that person is a Jew or a Gentile. There is only one Lord, and he is generous to everyone who asks for his help.
            Rom 10:13 All who call out to the Lord will be saved.
            And that is the fact of the matter.
            Jesus Christ is Lord

    • colt721

      did you read the article? “The study found a three percent drop in… denominations that have largely been considered to be apostate by
      evangelical Christians because of their liberal and unorthodox stances
      on abortion and homosexuality.” It is the ones who DON’T talk about the absolute truth of God that are facing the decline.

      “[C]ultural Christendom and actual Christendom are not the same. The
      former is dying off as its chief priests give way to the world,”
      Erickson stated. “Serve up fluffy, worldly nonsense as Christianity and
      watch the flock sniff out the scam and go in search of real soul
      nourishment while the poseurs get consumed by the wolves.”

    • http://www.google.com/ Jan van Niekerk

      If you think news of eternal condemnation is tiresome, just imagine how tiresome actually eternal condemnation will be. Do you know that sulphur burns at a relatively low temperature with a blue flame? You can find fun videos of it on youtube, with a warning “do not try this at home”. I found one with nice soothing background music that will not be played in the lake of fire.

      • UmustBKiddinMe

        “just imagine how tiresome actual eternal condemnation will be.”

        Drop a line and let me know once you get there.

  • Paulette Stanek

    I no longer go to church but I am still Christian. I don’t go because my church promoted an active gay man, who left his wife and children a bishop. Jesus would welcome the gays, but not put them in charge. And I don’t like the way the churches pick on each other. I have been told that if you believe the holy Eucharist is the body of Christ you are a cannibal! Or only Catholics go to heaven! Jesus must weep! For we are all the body of Christ. Churches that promote abortion! Or Divorce! Gay marriage!

    • Homer for God

      That is called religion Paulette. I don’t subscribe to them either because the meaning of the word has become all encompassing. It includes satanists and atheists, KKK , NAMBLA, ISIS, and whatever other group that uses freedom of religion to get away with their justification of the act of homosexuality and murder of babies before birth.FYI, a fetus inside the mother is alive. You wouldn’t let your children run into rush hour traffic so why would you pull a fetus out of their mother? It is because its MURDER!! (Sorry Paulette, that was for the atheists who want me to believe human life only matters after birth not during pregnancy). God is the way the truth and the life. As long as you have a personal relationship with him, that’s all that matters. God bless you Paulette!

      • Paul Hiett

        ROFl…atheists are as bad as ISIS? What the hell is wrong with you?

        • Lark62

          Religion melts humanity. Some get so caught up in perpetuating the myth that they lose sight of compassion, empathy and decency.

          • Homer for God

            Yes. that’s why Christianity is attacked and hated on by you guys. It’s because certain”religions” use our name to promote their brand of hate. It makes our disciple work that much harder and you guys are living proof. See what happens when one suffers because of another MAN’s decisions? You won’t even consider the truth because satan has that much of a grip on your “reality” and offers up “religion” as an excuse for you to doubt and hate God.

        • Homer for God

          Anyone that purposefully tries to turn others away from God out of their hatred for God and Christians to me belong in the same category. Especially since we don’t hate We simply do not approve of the acts of homosexuality and murder as justified and ok. we pray for those who make those choices as well as those who support those decisions. we will love every individual equally. You hate that we practice that and thus will attack in any way you can out of that hate.

          • Paul Hiett

            You truly have no clue what you’re talking about now. Atheists don’t cut off heads…we don’t blow up people. We don’t force women to subjugate to our beliefs, or toss education out the window.

            If you truly think an atheist is just as bad as an ISIS member, then you’ve lost touch with reality.

          • Homer for God

            No you just take out the one equation, the one fundamental base of morality from our children. By that and your “hands off” believe and do whatever they want approach will lead to a severe breakdown of society and total anarchy which will lead to mass death and destruction all because no one wants to say no you cannot do that. That’s why atheism is just as bad. The only difference is that you are not going to claim responsibility when others act out.

          • Paul Hiett

            Mass death and destruction? Oh yeah, like that whole Jonestown thing.

            Oh wait…those were Christians. Try again?

          • Homer for God

            No they were a cult/religion…like atheists.

      • Paulette Stanek

        Bless you too!

  • Paul Hiett

    Since there is a direct correlation between education and religion, I’m not surprised. The younger generations have more information available to them than ever before…this is merely a sign that they are educating themselves.

    • pastoredsmith

      True that. The younger generation has more lies before them than ever before, more slanderous information attacking the truth and more atheists who wish to destroy the Christian Church all together.
      You elude to “educating themselves.” That is the problem. They all “did that which was right in their own eyes,” just as atheists believe. Your man-made fairy tales cannot replace the truth.
      But, Paul, as an atheist, you know that you make up your “beliefs” as you go along. You have no basis for morality, no explanation about the origin of the universe, nothing but man-made fairy tales that you make up as you go along. And, you dare call that “education?”
      You atheists live a lie. Only the truth will set you free, and only in Christ can you find the absolute truth.
      It will be interesting how your opinion changes upon your death bed….if you are blessed enough to have that opportunity….facing your own demise will make you think twice about God. I pray you see Him now….while you have the opportunity.

      • Paul Hiett

        Lies? Education is never about “lies”. You’re scared because you’re a dinosaur now, along with your outdated, intolerant teachings. Our kids are seeing the truth about religion in exponentially increasing numbers, and you’re scared.

        I don’t care about your non-existent threats and scare tactics. Those ended about 30 years ago for me. Claiming I’m going to suffer an eternity has as much truth in it as aliens coming down and replacing us with carbon copies. Yeah, sorry, it just doesn’t have any meaning anymore.

        Furthermore, morality doesn’t come from the Bible…or any religious text for that matter. What we consider morally and ethically right are merely byproducts of the society in which we live. I doubt you’ll understand what I mean by that though.

        • pastoredsmith

          Education is about facts, not theories, Paul. True science searches and discovers what is there and reports it accurately, whether it agrees with their preconceived theories or not. And, Atheism is all about hating God. It is not new. It started just a few meager years after God created man and he fell into sin. Hating God involves trying to stamp out His existence in society, and that is exactly what you, Paul, and your buddies at the FFRF are doing. Suing school kids so they cannot pray at school (you will deny it, but you know it is true. You atheists merely “repackage” the lies you tell as “truth” and spread it around liberally).
          I have no threats, Paul. I make no threats. I merely tell the truth. That is something that your patheticly twisted mind cannot comprehend because it is so full of hate for God and His followers. So, go ahead and mock. It makes no difference. Only a fool mocks the truth (Psalms 14:1). Go ahead and ridicule the Bible and Christianity….I noticed you capitalized the word “Bible.” Old habits from a person who once professed Christianity? I wonder.
          And, it is a given fact that morality must be based on absolute truth. There is not such thing as absolute truth as created in the twisted, sinful mind of a warped atheist or any human being, for that matter. No man can become “moral” on his own, any more than any mortal man can “create himself” or anything else that God alone Created. Yes, I do understand your pathetic attempt at morals, but since you disagree amongst yourselves as atheists as to what morals really are or when and if they are applicable, that reduces your “morals” to nothing but fairy tales, just like the rest of the “religion” of atheism. Yes, it a religion. At least according to the IRS who granted tax exemptions for “mega atheist” “churches,” complete with “clergy,” and so forth.

          Get real Paul. Your lies only confuse yourself and all you spout them to. And, whether or not you “believe” in eternity, it doesn’t change the truth. You will face God one day with your lack of belief and watch as the demons in hell laugh at your idiocy because you believed their lies.

          • Paul Hiett

            When you learn what a scientific theory is, then you can come talk to me. Until then, I refuse to debate someone who intentionally remains ignorant on the subject.

          • Homer for God

            Sounded right to me and several million other followers of Christ!!!!
            Answer this Paul…why are you having a desire to live if all your going to be is forgotten over time after you die?

          • Paul Hiett

            Have you learned what a scientific theory is yet?

          • Homer for God

            That’s not an answer Paul. Why are you having a desire to live if all your going to be is forgotten over time after you die? Your theory says we blink out of existence when we die that all we worked for in our life is eventually forgotten and the world tens, hundreds thousands of years from now will not know you existed. So what is your purpose of being here Paul, or any of you who believe in “scientific theory”, if you are to be forgotten about?

          • Paul Hiett

            Have you learned what a scientific theory is yet?

            Pretty simple to learn what it is.

          • Homer for God

            You are still avoiding the question. If you want to keep bringing up THEORY (which is speculation) then write that part of it here so you can explain your answer. I’ve given you the best answers I when you ask me, so show some courtesy here. If you don’t that is fine. I just know what I know and that I don’t plan on stopping when my body does. Even if you do.

          • Verisimilitude

            Answer the question about 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

          • Paul Hiett

            *sigh*

            Ok, here is what a scientific theory is, since apparently Google is too hard for some people to use.

            “A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.”

            Now, having had the definition of a “theory” presented to you, would you care to demonstrate now why your statements have been wrong?

          • Homer for God

            STILL NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION PAUL. Avoid all you want. Fact is you can’t answer that question because deep down you know that the thought about death being your end scares you and you run and hide as far away from discovering the truth that you hide behind “MAN’S” interpretation of how we got here to justify your views.

          • Paul Hiett

            By all means, stick your head in the sand and pretend that you still don’t know what a scientific theory is. Unfortunately for you, it’s been printed in black and white for you to read. You have no excuse now.

          • Homer for God

            You are still avoiding the question presented. I’ll try one more time…..:

            “Why are you having a desire to live if all your going to be is forgotten over time after you die?” It’s a simple question. It’s not about theory, it’s about your scientific beliefs. SCIENCE and ATHEISM says we blink out of existence when our body dies. that there is no afterlife, no heaven, no hell, nothing. SO WHAT, PAUL, PURPOSE DO YOU HAVE TO BE HERE IF YOU ARE FACING A CERTAIN NOTHINGNESS WHEN YOU DIE? Theory is not an answer.It doesn’t explain death.

          • Paul Hiett

            So now it’s not about theory, eh? Just a moment ago you were screaming about how theory is just an assumption and has nothing to do with facts. Now that you’ve been proven wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt, you change your tune.

            Were you wrong about what a theory is or not? I’ll address your questions as soon as you demonstrate why you were wrong in your statements about theories.

          • Homer for God

            Proved wrong by what? If you’re referring that I believe you can answer a simple question then yes you proved me wrong.You the one hung up on theory.Science created theory and the same science professes that about nonexistence. I am asking a simple question. to you defending that stance. When I originally asked you that question on death…your responses has been repetitive with “Theory” and nothing towards the question originally asked. No you go reread and answer the question. Or come up with another way to avoid it like you have been.

          • SpeakTruth

            I’ll answer you, Homer. People who do not believe in deities are not “mad” at your god or any other god. We didn’t get angry because our prayers weren’t answered or because our parents made us go to Sunday school. Most of us went to church as kids and the older we got, the sillier the stories became. We had questions that no one could answer. When learning about mythology in school, the stories seemed as believable as any in the bible. When studying science we realized that for sure the bible wasn’t literally true, so then came questions of how to know what was true and what was allagory and metaphor. Later, we studied the history of the bible (who wrote it, when was it written, who decided what to put in the bible and what to leave out, how was it translated, etc.) Many atheists have read and studied the bible more than self-identifying Christians. It became crystal clear that religion is man made.
            You ask why we have a desire to live if we will just be forgotten when we die. Well, since we think there are no deities, no heaven, no life after death, then everyone meets the same end. It isn’t like we just believe it for ourselves but you guys live in heaven forever. We all die when we die. We are remembered by the people we leave behind, just like everyone. We have purpose to our lives just like everyone. We love our families and friends, we take pleasure in learning and teaching, we feel responsible to our fellow human beings, animals, our planet. We take joy in our accomplishments and those of others, etc.
            There is no ultimate purpose for our existance. We each set our own goals and purpose. I would argue that if tomorrow you found out conclusively that there is no god or afterlife that you would continue to love your family, laugh with friends, enjoy your hobbies, etc. Death comes to us all. We don’t “choose” to not want an afterlife or a deity to guide us, it is just that we feel confident those things do not exist for anyone. But, we find happiness and joy and purpose in living just the same.

          • pastoredsmith

            The modern scientific theory as observed these days is a theory that started with a disgruntled preacher who set out to imagine how the world could have come to existence without the God he was angry with. He imagined that life crawled out of pond scum and put together a whole book of fairy tales called “evolution.” Then, “scientists” who adopted Darwin’s fairy tales as truth set out to prove him right and would stop at nothing, including falsifying data to prove that there is no God.
            Just as you, Paul. You “justify” in your mind that God doesn’t exist so you can live “free.” But, you don’t realize you are in the biggest chains of most human beings. You live as though there is no God, but down in your heart, you doubt that could really be right. People who live their lives angry with God only destroy themselves and any other fool who listens to their lies.

          • Paul Hiett

            Wow…ok…nevermind then.

          • pastoredsmith

            Glad you finally agree with me, Paul.

          • Paul Hiett

            Yeah, sure pal, by all means, go on thinking that.

          • Homer for God

            You asked us to present this theory and we did. Now your blowing off the subject? And you STILL can’t answer my question, AND I was asking your personal opinion.

          • Homer for God

            Only if you give the answer Paul to the question I asked. Oh wait yes I did…pastor smith explained Theory just fine

          • pastoredsmith

            There is no debate when it comes to the truth.

          • Paul Hiett

            Obviously not.

      • Homer for God

        Alleluia!!! Praise God in all his glory!! I couldn’t of said it better myself. You are a blessed man Pastor Smith. I knew my prayer to God is working. Oh Paul, by the way, that is not hate. That is truth. God is love. If he didn’t love, you wouldn’t be here. We are no mightier then you. No one is mightier then anyone save God. It was from His Word, the Bible, that morality was born. You take that away from children as well as adopt the “hands off” parenting. Mix in the lack of educating our youth on who “your views” see as the man or men who created the same code of morality the Bible lays out, then you are taking away the fact that it is wrong to steal, kill and destroy. How? Because those same youth, who thirst for physical proof that you have, will ask you “why can’t I kill” to which you must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt who specifically (If not God or the Bible) got the world as a whole to believe that murder of your fellow man is wrong? Then continue with explaining theft, Rape, pedophilia, kidnapping, so on and so forth, (pretty much every crime that on can get punished for) and the origin behind it. After that explain to the one child who did study the Bible, sees that code of morality is there, and asks you “why not give them this answer as an option?”
        Simple truth Paul is that Christians do not pretend to be better. We already know we are not. We are sinners by nature. Everyday we sin. We are going to pay for those sins when our physical body dies.(Rom ^:23 for the wages of sin is death but the gift from God is eternal life). We are not judges because we already are being judged and I for one (as well as millions more throughout history) would leave that up to God.
        We are simply taking things on day at a time and will defend the holy name of God and is word when we are attacked by those who hate and do not understand. Because at the end of it all, we will all be facing God and confessing him before everyone.
        Good day, God bless you and God bless pastoredsmith for that wonderful response!!!

    • amostpolitedebate

      I think it’s more that as Gay people came out of the closet it became impossible to narrowly think of them as the “other”. So when a priest starts screaming that gay people deserve death it’s not some random weirdo in San Fransisco they’re talking about but their friends and neighbors.

      • Paul Hiett

        The “gay” issue is certainly a factor, but it doesn’t drive the drop in numbers in more westernized countries. There are many graphs that show that in less educated populations, religion is higher than in areas where education is more prevalent.

        • pastoredsmith

          The numbers drop in Western Civilization is fueled by those in the church who are hypocrites, fakes, and phony’s, not “re-educated” people who “suddenly learned the truth.” The fact, Paul, is that atheism is a religion of hopelessness and despair. No future, no reason, no purpose to live other than to return to the dust of the ground. Alone in the world, a victim of random evolution and an accidental explosion in outer space that “just happened” to end up in this world we live in.
          That is the most pathetic, irrational, fundamentally flawed gibberish I have ever heard! True science ALWAYS proves God’s existence. Flawed science always follows an agenda and covers its tracks by falsifying the truth to achieve its own ends. Atheism is the most ridiculous idea man ever came up with. Even the devils know there is a God, and they tremble before Him.
          True education is learning the TRUTH, no matter where it is found, and no matter what it is. True education acknowledges that the universe and all that is in it didn’t just “happen” as a freak of nature, but was Divinely Created by Almighty God.
          As to the “gay” issue, sin has been around since man first ate the fruit in the Garden of Eden. It’s full of persuasive flavors and colors, tempting mankind to abandon the truth for a lie.
          May I suggest that you abandon your lies, Paul? They are destroying your life right before your eyes. Only God can satisfy your soul.

          • Paul Hiett

            “True science”??? By all means, demonstrate some of this “true science” that proves your deities existence. I can’t wait to see this!!!!!

  • Paulette Stanek

    Churches are trying to get/keep members by trying to go with current times. That insults the current members morals. I have even heard of a church of atheists! To each their own but don’t call it a church.

  • Paulette Stanek

    I love Jesus. I believe the Bible. And I pray in my own home!

  • RWH

    I’m not so sure that there is a correlation between so-called apostate churches as this article would have you believe or conservative ones. In the last five years or so, five colleges considered fundamentalist have closed their doors, two just this year. If enrollment in fundamentalist schools is any indicator, so-called good churches are also losing members. Unfortunately, the Pew Report does not break things down clearly enough. Numbers for the Southern Baptist Convention are way down, even with their inflated numbers. It is harder to keep track of the Independant Fundamental Baptist churches.

  • amostpolitedebate

    It’s almost like defining yourself entirely by whether or not you hate a small subset of the population is less than appealing.

  • Lark62

    For many, deconversion is a two step process.

    Step one is seeing the disconnect between what is sold and what is real. It may be the disconnect between knowing kind and decent gay friends while hearing the church condemn them to hell, it may be that eternal torture for thought crimes doesn’t sound loving. For me it was the realization that religion didn’t matter. Child abuseres and their protectors thrived in religious settings the same as they thrived in non religious settings.

    If a person is happy and comfortable in their church, step one may never hapoen.

    Step 2 is reading the bible, opening your eyes and paying attention. The bible is disgusting, its morality is warped, god is a genocidal maniac and the whole.bwhole.blood sacrifice thing is really nuts.

    People say over and over that morality comes from the bible, but it is nothing more than ancient moral sayings that predate israel mixed with some really crazy rules. Lots of rules about food and hair and clothes but no prohibition on owning people. Rules for how much to charge when you sell a daughter to a rapist, but no rule anywhere that sex without consent is wrong.

    There’s nothing there.

    • Homer for God

      I will pray for you Lark. Clearly someone used the name of God to hurt you or your family. Either that or a prayer was not answered. Either way ( or a personal issue I didn’t mention) God pissed you off and turned you off. I pray that one day you will realize that satan is the one that had fed you these lies and disgust for too long, and that you study of what God truth really is and not some dark, morbid painting satan has painted for you to believe.

      • Lark62

        Nope. Sorry to disappoint you.

        My life is fine, my family is great, I’ve had less than my share of bad things happen. I’m not angry.

        I just have no desire to sing praises to an imaginary genocidal maniac. Your mileage may vary.

        • Homer for God

          Btw, our “imaginary” God is the reason your mother and father was able to conceive you. Didn’t you ever stop and think of why God would kill people by the thousands? Did you ever see after it was done where it sayed that God greatly enjoyed it? OF COURSE NOT!! We are his children. He punished us for our wrong doing. You punish your child if he or she acts up. To you, the punishment is no big deal. to them it’s everything and a reason to say I hate you while crying. You can’t honestly say that there is a part of you that feels sorry for punishing your child even though it is the right thing to do in your eyes. Why? because you know that the child will learn not only to not repeat their crimes, but to teach others that the crime is wrong and that he/she learned from this. Same thing here In the beginning it was cursing future generations with death and destruction.. Now, it the fact that God set an end point for this world. The ultimate “genocide” in your eyes; and he now gives us a choice: take up the cross and follow Him and have everlasting life or follow the world and their views on life and die a spiritual death. IT IS YOUR CHOICE.
          You guys do not want to accept that…that’s is fine. That is YOUR CHOICE. I cannot and will not judge you or think I’m better because you choose not to believe. I will pray for understanding for you and that is ALL I can do. God bless.

          • Lark62

            Thanks for the reminders of just how great reality is. 🙂

          • Homer for God

            It is thats why I cant wait to pass over into God’s great kingdom!!!!

          • Lark62

            I’m pretty sure I was conceived the same way just about every other mammal on this planet was conceived. What did God have to do with it?

          • Homer for God

            Everything since he created them. He also created humans to be superior thus rules are different.

      • Paul Hiett

        Not believing in your choice of a deity is hardly proof of Satan. Not even sure why you’d go there with that line of thinking. Belief in religion is nothing more than a choice people make, and in no way is indicative of their character, or why they made the choices they did.

        • Homer for God

          Funny you talk about choice…………………………..nuff said

          • Paul Hiett

            Meaning what, exactly? If you have something to say, say it.

          • Homer for God

            I did…Did you already forget the argument we spent having on the subject of choice? Don say there isn’t one when you are promoting there is.

          • Paul Hiett

            Religion is a choice, nothing more. Most of the time that choice has been made for you, by your parents, but in more westernized countries you can usually change your beliefs without fear of death. Regardless, religion is still just a choice…even non-belief is a choice.

          • LeftCoast

            Not a choice but I was born this way. LOL

          • Paul Hiett

            You were born suddenly believing in the same religion that your parents were? What an amazing coincidence! And to think of all the religions you could have been…Muslim, Jewish, Taoist, Sikh…and yet somehow you just so happened to be born a Christian just like them.

            Amazing how your choice of a deity works!!!!

    • LeftCoast

      I like when people use the old testament craziness to support their points against the church, it makes me laugh. Lark, find a pastor and have him explain the Bible to you.

      • Lark62

        Been there, done that. All that tap dancing just makes me dizzy.

    • Crono478

      Why would you make your comment about Bible when your morality is warped as well. Yesterday, you commented that you support abortions. You don’t view it as murder.

      The reason why many people left church is because they never come to repentance and trust in Jesus as their Savior. God uses trials, temptations, and tribulations to divide His sheeps from goats, wheat from tares, good fish from bad ones. Many people eventually can no longer pretend that they don’t really believe in His God and eventually leave.

      This has to happen before Son of God comes back.

      • Lark62

        My morality is based on respect for autonomy of other people and the right of each person make their own decisions.

        I have yet to see any pro birth fundy express the slightest compassion for pregnant women, fight for education and universal health care, or promote anything, including [email protected] ed and contraception, proven to reduce the number of abortions. There is nothing moral about hypocrisy or sluht shaming.

        I like my morality just fine.

        • Crono478

          “My morality is based on respect for autonomy of other people and the right of each person make their own decisions.”

          Would you be okay with pregnant women drinking alcohol and take hard drugs. Why or why not?

          Believe me, I do have compassion for pregnant women. However, how do they get pregnant? Yeah, you should know the answer. Why kill babies for mistakes that their parents made in the first place? If a woman get pregnant (which is the consequence), then she should bear it and use resources such as giving up the baby for adoption or receive some type of support to get through the pregnancy and keep the baby. Life of each baby (unborn and born) are precious.

          • Lark62

            “Pregnancy is the consequence”

            Newsflash. Women, just like men, have [email protected] They even enjoy [email protected]

            The idea that pregnancy is some sort of punishment / natural consequence to be inflicted on any woman married or single who has [email protected] is sick.

            A human life is not a penalty to be inflicted to punish impure women.

            No child should be brought into this world unless parents are able to care for that child.

          • Homer for God

            Way to take thing out and twist them lark.

            Pregnancy is the consequence OF UNPROTECTED SEX

            Newsflash. Women, just like men, have [email protected] They even enjoy [email protected]…When they are married, they can go at it till the cows come home.

            The idea that pregnancy is some sort of punishment / natural consequence to be inflicted on any woman married or single who has [email protected] is sick….Reread again. He’s merely saying if you don’t protect yourself then you are at risk. Reaping what you sow.

            A human life is not a penalty to be inflicted to punish impure women…Absolutely right. So instead of shaking our heads every time the poor decision of unprotected sex leading to unwanted pregnancy, why don’t we educate and reinforce the importance of abstinence. Oh wait…I forgot…Your raising them “hands off” Oh well…I’m out of options. Thank God for His Word.

            No child should be brought into this world unless parents are able to care for that child….and in that event, give them to parents that can.

          • Crono478

            “Pregnancy is the consequence OF UNPROTECTED SEX”

            Homer for God: To answer your question, women can still get pregnant even if they have “protected sex” as you put it. It happens.

            “The idea that pregnancy is some sort of punishment / natural consequence to be inflicted on any woman married or single who has [email protected] is sick….Reread again. He’s merely saying if you don’t protect yourself then you are at risk. Reaping what you sow.”

            Pregnancy is not a consequence if a married couple knows that can happen and accept it as they have sex (and enjoy it). What about one night stands? A woman happen to get pregnant regardless if sex was protected or not. If the woman was not really ready for this, then yes it is the consequence. She would have to accept that it is why she got pregnant. The message remains the same, we reap what we sow.

            “No child should be brought into this world unless parents are able to care for that child….and in that event, give them to parents that can.”

            I am happy that you consider adoption as an alternative rather than abortions.

          • Homer for God

            Great points Chrono. I wanted to clarify on one point. It is up to that person whether the consequence is a good/happy or bad/sad or mad one. I just generalized the word.

          • Lark62

            Speaking of “unprotected” sex. Since access to birth control and scientifically sound sex ed are proven to reduce the number of abortions and you are in favor of reducing the number of abortions, can I assume you
            – approve of the actions of planned parenthood to make contraceptives widely available.
            – support the provisions of the ACA to make contraceptives available without charge, especially the expensive but highly effective long term ones like IUDs
            – Support accurate and timely sex ed in schools, without slut shaming “used gum” analogies.

            Right?

          • Homer for God

            Yes and ultimately education on abstinence where we should be going.
            .

          • Lark62

            Abstinence education is a failure. Abstinence as one element of comprehensive sex ed is good.

          • Homer for God

            I didn’t say it worked. Humanity is to blame, not God.

          • Crono478

            I am not in favor of reducing the abortion. I am in favor of eliminating abortions although. Ever since Roe vs Wade, there is approximately 55,772,015 unborn children that are already murdered.

            Planned Parenthood performed at least 300,000 abortions per year. That is a lot.

            That’s just 1/4 of total abortions (around 1.2 to 1.3 million abortions per year). Out of all unintended pregnancies, 40% of them are aborted.

          • Lark62

            Every time two people have sex, 1 or 2 sperm at most become a future person. At least 5,999,998 do not get born. What about them? They don’t exist. What about all the billions of people never born because they were miscarried spontaneously?

            Those people don’t exist. Just like “non spontaneous” miscarriages. If a person doesn’t exist it doesn’t matter why. They don’t exist.

            I prefer to focus on the health and wellbeing of those people who do exist, including moms working to feed their families and kids who need health care.

          • Crono478

            It requires both sperm and egg for a child to be conceived. Your argument doesn’t work. The number is for women who actually get pregnant. Also for these miscarriage, pregnant mothers did not make decision to murder them through “abortions”.

            It’s like a driver crashes his car into your car. Is that your fault? No, but it can and does happen. It is the same idea. For abortions, they make this choice to do this and that does not happen by an accident.

            If you focus on health and wellbeing of these people who do exist, then you should care about lives of unborn children as well.

          • Lark62

            A nonviable embryo or fetus without functioning organs is not a child.

          • Crono478

            A mere 16 days after conception, your fetus’s neural plate forms (think of it as the foundation of your baby’s brain and spinal cord). I copied that from a web site.

            At 6th to 7th week, heart is already beating. This is a major functioning organ.

            That is just two examples. You need to stop thinking them as nonviable embryo or fetus without functioning organ and start thinking of them as people.

          • Lark62

            No. No I do not.

            I will not tell you not to believe that living tissue has a soul. That is your belief.

            You have no right to ask, expect or legally require any other person to adopt your religious belief. No person yet exists. If a miscarriagevor abortion occurs at this point, no human being exists. No one is murdered. No itty bit soul floats away to the great whatever in the sky.

            The mother does exist and she matters. To me, treating a living breathing human being as no more than a walking incubator with no rights is immoral. YMMV.

          • Crono478

            Currently, at least 38 states have fetal homicide laws. The states include: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

            What’s difference between a fetal homicide and an abortion? Can you please explain this to me?

          • Lark62

            “When they are married. ..”

            Many women seeking abortions are married. They simply cannot afford to be pregnant, can’t afford another child, and/or find a wanted pregnancy has massive medical complications.

            Birth control fails, and for some families is inaccessible due to roadblocks one political party keeps placing between women and access to contraceptives.

          • Crono478

            “Newsflash. Women, just like men, have [email protected] They even enjoy [email protected]

            You know you can spell sex, it’s a not a bad word. Yes, it is meant to be for pleasure and procreation. Why don’t you read Song of Solomon about sex? Here is good article on www gotquestions org/sex-pleasure html

            One thing you should know is that sex is only acceptable between a man and a woman within marriage. There are very good reasons for that. For the starters, it is how a woman get pregnant.

            What if a man manage to get a woman pregnant but they are not married. They may find themselves not ready for marriage or even to have a family. This is one of possible consequences I am speaking about. People underestimate what sex actually do to them. Sex does not only connect them physically but also spiritually. That is why it does so much damage to the couple if they break up or divorce.

            “A human life is not a penalty to be inflicted to punish impure women.”

            Are you saying that it is OK for a pregnant woman to end lives of their unborn child?

            No child should be brought into this world unless parents are able to care for that child.

            That is your rationale for approving the murder of the child before he/she is even born? What about adoptions? There are families that would be happy to adopt them.

          • Lark62

            There is a website that sends posts to moderation purgatory if it contains the “S

          • Crono478

            What web site would do this?

          • Lark62

            I think one of my posts got half eaten.

          • Crono478

            Just type web site’s URL such as: www domain com/index html

            just make sure don’t include actual periods within the URL link you share with me.

          • Lark62

            I can’t remember. It was just super annoying.

          • Paul Hiett

            How many kids have you adopted?

          • Crono478

            None at this moment. My wife and I are open to adopting kids. We have two kids of our own as well.

          • Paul Hiett

            Why not? There’s many of them out there. If you’re so against abortion, you should have several adopted kids. It only makes sense. In fact, I would support a law that forces Christians to adopt at least one child.

          • Homer for God

            Just Christians? the hatred continues. Not once have you ever pointed out any one else’s faults especially your own Paul. If that law applies to one then it applies to all.

          • Crono478

            Paul, it’s as if you already expected me to say no and wrote your response well in advance.

            “In fact, I would support a law that forces Christians to adopt at least one child.”

            I am not against adoptions because each life is precious. However, this is how you mock Christians for being so against abortions?

          • Paul Hiett

            Because I see the hypocrisy. You folks scream and wail and gnash your teeth in protest of allowing women to choose for themselves, but the second a child is born, you scatter like dust in the wind. If you’re so against abortion…if your deity hates it so bad, then why aren’t Christians lining up in droves to adopt?

          • Crono478

            We are not against women to choose for themselves. The problem is, the unborn child is not even pregnant woman’s own. It is a completely different person that is developed and growing inside her. It is not the unborn child fault that he / she got conceived. To abort is actually to murder this child. That is very clear to us.

            On the other hand, you do point out the hypocrisy which is true in some ways. Some Christians (as well as non Christians) do scatter whenever it comes to responsibilities because to adopt and raise kids are big responsibility that should not be taken lightly. I do know some families that have adopted kids. They have explained the process to adopt each kid can be long and costly. That may be why Christians and non-Christians scatter when it comes to that.

            People often view abortions as a better alternative because it is “less costly” but that is a cop-out and to murder these innocent unborn children.

          • SpeakTruth

            I think the difference of opinion regarding abortion comes, for the most part, from a fundamental belief that a deity has given a “soul” to each embryo upon conception and others who see it as living tissue with the potential to become a separate human being from its mother. I think most people would like to see fewer abortions, but women have been having abortions for thousands of years and will continue to do so whether legal or illegal. Instead of arguing over the “rightness” or “wrongness” of it, why not do more to make abortion unnecessary. For instance, support sex ed, make contraception readily available, talk to your kids about safe sex and birth control and foster a relationship with them where sex and sexuality are not taboo subjects.

          • Crono478

            ” I think most people would like to see fewer abortions, ”

            Why do you say that. Is this because you know that is wrong?

            “but women have been having abortions for thousands of years and will continue to do so whether legal or illegal. Instead of arguing over the “rightness” or “wrongness” of it, why not do more to make abortion unnecessary. For instance, support sex ed, make contraception readily available, talk to your kids about safe sex and birth control and foster a relationship with them where sex and sexuality are not taboo subjects.”

            Yes, abortions are not a new practice. Like you said, it happened for thousands of years. Bible recorded that as well. It is one of reasons why God judged Israel as well as neighboring nations such as Canaan, Amorites, Moabites and so on.

            If our nation continue to allow abortions, homosexuality, and a list of sins then we should not experience God to bless us. Rather, His judgment may come. I don’t know how soon that is going to happen and what kind of judgment it would be.

            I will not talk to my kids about safe sex because this is a big lie. I was taught that in school as well. What they deserve to know is the truth on sex itself. While sex is something that can be enjoyable, it needs to be taken very seriously. It is only acceptable between a man and a woman. It is for a very good reason. I will teach about temptations because it happens to us all the time. We do fall to that as well. Another thing we need to remember is that we will reap what we sow.

          • SpeakTruth

            “Why do you say that? Is this because you know that it is wrong?”

            No. The procedure itself is not wrong, although it can be physically painful and a difficult choice depending on circumstances. A teen pregnancy is usually not optimal. Pregnancy from rape is tragic. A planned, welcomed pregnancy that results in severe abnormalities is heartbreaking. A pregnancy in which the woman is poor, drug addicted, mentally ill, etc., is all of the above. Everything should be done to prevent those situations.

            Your next two paragraphs are your religious beliefs, and while I respect your right to believe what you choose, I would hope that you would do the same for others. Personally, I do not share your beliefs. I do not believe in any deities, nor do I think the bible is a good source for morality. I see no evidence that any deity has ever “blessed” this, or any other country, and Christians have been waiting for judgement day and Jesus’s return for two thousand years. But, again, I do respect your right to believe differently.

            I see we disagree on what children should be taught, as well. My husband and I have always been very open and honest with our kids regarding sex. We have taught them that it is normal and natural to want to have sex, however, they should always respect themselves and use protection. We have gay friends who are married with kids and our kids were raised knowing that being gay or straight isn’t something you choose. They know we would love, support, and accept them either way.

          • Verisimilitude

            Agree with you 99.9999999999999999999999%

            One [minor] cavil: Even if someone did choose to be gay, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, not one little bit.

            btw, you sound like truly great parents…

          • SpeakTruth

            I absolutely agree with you that about choice not making a difference. I want my kids to love a good person that treats them well and makes them happy. It amazes me that other parents don’t feel the same.

            As far as being “truly great parents”, all I can say is we love our kids. We screw up occasionally, but our kids love and trust us. I appreciate the kind words.

          • Verisimilitude

            I do think the description of a good parent includes all that you mention…including the occasional screw-up…the key being to recognize ’em when they occur, of course!

          • Verisimilitude

            Crono478: “…if our nation continue to allow abortions, homosexuality, and a list of sins then we should not experience God to bless us…”

            Given there’s no CHRISTIAN god, then this would be an awful imposition on “our Nation”…

            ….for no good reason.

            Just because you’re dealing with a loose screw yourself, why would you insist on putting your own beliefs onto others?

            Perhaps because your screw is loose!

            That’s [one of] your Christian-induced errors…but rest assured, it’s only one of many…

            …many…

            …many.

          • Lark62

            Yes

  • Rowena Lee Ellison

    I study my bible daily, and I pray and talk to the Father many times a day. I talk to people about the bible and Jesus when I get the chance. I don’t go to church simply because most of the church goers dust off their Bibles on Sunday, use it for a couple hours while at church, then return it to it’s spot and don’t pick it up again till the following Sunday. People are supposed to love the Lord with all their hearts, every day, not just on Sunday…

    • LeftCoast

      Amen! Blessings to you for your work. If I can, you should find a church to fellowship with for the support. We all need a little recharge of the batteries once in a while. My 2 cents.

    • Valerie James

      I agree Rowena, most of them probably do not have a personal relationship with Jesus, they need to know him, and the power of the Gospel will change their lives!!

  • LeftCoast

    This all comes down to accepting, minimizing and even ignoring the complete word of God. When a church picks and choices verses to fill the pews and turns the church into a country club, people leave. I don’t feel bad that these people that are leaving and churches are closing, they did this to themselves for losing their conviction, for sell out and compromising. There are still a few churches that will stand in the gap and never give up their post.

  • JAMES A. WHITE

    The
    media as usual skews the reporting though. Because the churches that
    are declining are mostly the PCUSA, United Church of Christ etc. Which
    are churches in league with Satan not God. Also, the Pew report said
    there has been a net increase in Evangelical Christians from 2007-2014
    of 2 million new converts.

    • pastoredsmith

      Very True.

      • Verisimilitude

        How can you agree with this vapid, truth-contorting post?

        If there were a Satan–which there’s so obviously not!–then you would be in league with him.

        • pastoredsmith

          Ignorant blathering from a blabbering idiot. Go research the truth again and come back when you are knowledgeable about what is true and what is not. You obviously don’t know truth from a fable, otherwise, you would know there is a satan and one God.

          • Verisimilitude

            The ignorance is surely yours, as Mother Earth revolves around Father Sun.

            Imagine…you endorse a poster who claims Christians are in league with the Devil.

            Twaddle like this deserves the contempt it so overwhelmingly receives these days.

          • pastoredsmith

            The more you babble, the more idiotic you demonstrate yourself to be.
            Do some research as to what is true and what is not and let me know. Meantime, your ignorance will stand alone.

          • Verisimilitude

            Recognizing one’s one lack of knowledge is the first step on the real spiritual path.

            “Doubt is an uncomfortable condition, but certainty is a ridiculous one.”
            ―Voltaire

            As I’m sure you know Pastor, Voltaire “…was a French Enlightenment writer, historian, and philosopher famous for his wit, his attacks on the established Catholic Church, and his advocacy of freedom of religion, freedom of expression, and separation of church and state…”

            It’s time for you to rid yourself of certainty, Pastor, and dispel the miasma of foggy untruths that are the Foundation of your ‘church’

          • pastoredsmith

            One babbling idiot quoting another. I prefer to stay with the Bible. It is absolute truth, compared to your and Voltaire’s rambling nonsense.
            As for your judgment of me, I’ll take the source into consideration and dismiss you and your idiotic ramblings.
            The best advice I can give you is that you accept Christ and forget all the trappings of foolishness that you are drowning in. Read the Bible and don’t build your life on vein babblings that teach nonsense.

          • Verisimilitude

            You are the one who spouts the gibberish, Pastor…you just can’t stand being called on it.

            And the words of Man….the ones written and conceived of by Man, the ones in your bible…they are no more the work of god than your religion.

          • pastoredsmith

            Not an atheist, eh? Ether you are lying or you are a member of a weird cult of some sort.
            Get educated, learn the truth. You obviously don’t have it in your life at all.

          • Verisimilitude

            To the contrary, I am on a perpetual search for the truth, and as each day goes by, more and more of that truth is coming into my life…

            …the key step for me was the utter rejection of your Church’s interpretation of Yeshua’s teachings…

            …once I sought the teacher, not the Christian Church’s perversion of Yeshua’s message, I made progress much more quickly.

            I know, I know,,,that’s too much like hard work for you, so why don’t you just settle–as you have–for the pablum the Church dishes out to its acolytes?

          • pastoredsmith

            I’ve got news for you, Skippy. You should search somewhere other than the cow pasture because all you seem to come up with is horse crackers.
            Have a good life. I pray you find the truth.
            Have a nice evening. This conversation is over.

          • Verisimilitude

            Yes, I get it…you can’t stand the heat, so you’re better off out of the kitchen…

          • pastoredsmith

            There’s no heat here. Just noise.

          • Verisimilitude

            Then get rid of the voices in your head…everything will be so much clearer then.

            And now, I’m done with you…

          • pastoredsmith

            So, if the heat is too much, get out of the kitchen? As to “voices,” I hear no voices in my head. But, apparently you do….and they have you totally confused.
            OK, I’m done now.

          • Homer for God

            Pastor don’t go to their level of childish name calling. That is satan’s way of calling us out. God knows the heart of the true and faithful. I know no more Veri’s heart then I know your, but I can pray for understanding from God for myself and for Veri. God’s unconditional love through us is a huge defence against those that attack our beliefs out of hate.

    • weasel1886

      This site is also the media

    • Verisimilitude

      No, the media just doesn’t buy into your jaundiced view of what constitutes Christianity…

      …with all your gerrymandering around who’s in and who’s out…

      …compounded by your absurdist notion of this ‘satan’ chappie.

      Fundamentally, you’re saying that the media isn’t your brand of spirituality, and that if it isn’t, it’s got things wrong.

      Apparently, there’s no limit to your buffoonery.

  • Thomas C. Coleman, Jr.

    “…held to be apostate,” you say? Held by whom, we must ask. By just what authority do presume to determine what denominations are apostate? Who elected you? Who ordained you? Your followers are but a drop in the ocean of the world of people who profess to be Christians.

  • Valerie James

    I think people just want to see a church that makes a real difference in their lives. Not just another social club….That is a true relationship with Jesus, and the ability to overcome the issues in their lives, then they would be able to show that love to others.

  • Bobby Mae

    Love the “they’re percentages are down, so are ours, BUT because population is growing OUR numbers are slightly up.” The tone of this article sounds like a 7yo. “I’m rubber, you’re glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks back to you.” Grow up.

  • Peter Leh

    “apostate” : others who disagree with me. 🙂

    • Verisimilitude

      …couldn’t have said it better myself. : – )

  • Julie

    Yes and no….it is the various methods used in the poll. Millions entered the Catholic Church in 2012. The problem is the lack of mysteriologia….after initiation…and now we are working to instead encourage people to be involved more with their parish to instead grow more spiritually and interiorly with the Lord until they are ready for more outward, active participation.

  • BarkingDawg

    New Pew Research Poll: Apostate ‘Christians’ Leaving Church

    I can’t decide if that headline is the most un-self-aware headline, ever, or if the person who wrote it has a brilliantly ironic sense of humor.

    • Verisimilitude

      They must be barking mad…

  • CMart

    In my case, I’ve stopped going to church to have my ears tickled. I have yet to find a church that is more concerned with the spiritual growth and well-being of its individual church goers than the numbers within its congregation. I haven’t lost my faith in the Bible, but I’ve lost faith in the church.

  • pastorianthomas

    Hi all. Can I recommend those who are Christians on this forum treat posters with respect – truth with love – let us not downgrade the truth of the Gospel with name-calling or other adjectives which the world would use. By all means quote Scripture in context, by all means speak the truth for these can stand on their own against arguments if we actually trust them ourselves. The end of all things is near therefore we watchful and pray. Thank you.

    • Deina

      Well said, Pastor! You strike me as a true Christian, unlike the many who claim to be “Christians”, yet totally ignore the teachings of Christ & only use the Scriptures to bludgeon those who disagree with them.

      While I may not always agree with you, you, sir, are a Christian, not to be confused with those hypocritical “xtians.”

  • bruceapilot

    The “lake of fire” is a mideval metaphor. “Hell” is better described as the result of living a life separated from God, a separation which continues in the hereafter if a soul never reconciles with Him who gave us life. It is a spiritual state of our own choosing. Reconciliation with Him through Jesus Christ is an easy and life-changing experience. An awakening occurs when we accept that Jesus took upon Himself the final sacrifice for the propeciation of our sins which separate us from God. It is that simple. Love and gratitude abound in the wake of that spiritual transformation. “What we do in life, echos for all eternity.” That was said by a Roman, but can be extrapolated to how we live our lives as Christians as well. Good vs. evil; Love vs. hate; which side we choose echos in eternity with or without God. I choose God.

  • Jim Deferio

    The religions of atheism and evolutionism are devoid of substance, facts, and rationality but they are able to gain members through the general dumbing down of America by the public school system, the media, and entertainment (TV, movies, etc.).

    To be fair, many who claim to be Christian have engaged in divorce, adultery, pornography, etc. and they have produced dysfunctional families that perpetuate the wickedness and apostasy. Many church leaders rarely preach against sin and even more rarely know how to defend Christianity against the religionists like atheists, evolutionists, Islamists, etc. Much blame to pass around…

    • supermike

      The “dumbing down” is happening, but it is to attempt to slow down the number leaving the church. Technology and education are showing the world that Evolution is true, that Climate Change is a huge threat to all life on the planet, and all scientific evidence ever found support this and that there has never been any evidence that supports the idea that the Earth is less then 10,000 years old, or that God exists.

      • Jim Deferio

        Too bad you hide behind a loser name and are too afraid to use your real name. We could get together and have a face to face debate in front of an audience on the subject of your religion called evolutionism.

        I have two science degrees and I have completed about 235 semester hours of college course work at the undergraduate and graduate level. Please tell me, lol, where all of this “evidence” is?

        True Christianity is an intelligent faith and it does not deny rationality but just the opposite, it provides a secure basis for logic and rational reasoning and why we can even trust our sensory perceptions to begin with.

        You religion of evolutionism, if true, would have no basis for laws of logic, truth, love (especially altuism), or for even knowing that evolution happened. Naturalism is incapable of providing answers to anything!

        • supermike

          I’m sorry you dislike my username. I’m happy to have a debate here. You can check any Encyclopedia, or ask any doctor. Evolution is a fact. If it is true you have degrees in science, they must be from religious schools, as it is illegal to teach anything but evolution in schools, because everyone knows there is no other explanation of how we got here. The only people that doubt it have been brainwashed since childhood to disregard scientists’ views. You can see it happening by looking at the human development. Humans go through 500 million years of Evolution in the 9 months they develop. From simple organisms to fish, to reptiles, to mammals, to humans. Our brains have three sections; the reptilian brain, the mammalian brain, and on the outside it the most recent evolutionary development, the human brain. 99.99% of all creatures that walked the Earth have gone extinct. Extinction is part of Evolution. Do you believe in Extinction? If you do, but don’t believe in Evolution, you would have to believe God created the Earth with 10,000 times more animals than Earth has now. About 1 out of 1000 scientists that study the Earth or life don’t believe in Evolution. Even the Pope says it is a fact.

          • Jim Deferio

            I have never been to a Christian college or a Christian school of any sort. I went to Oregon State University and the State University of New York in Syracuse.

            The “ontology recapitulates phylogeny” nonsense which was started by Ernst Haeckel has been totally disproven. Since I was told I’m not allowed to post links to other websites on this site you’ll have to go to:
            Pennisi E. 1997. Haeckel’s Embryos: Fraud Rediscovered. Science 277 (5331): 1435. (Sept. 5, 1997).

            Are you saying that I would not be qualified to say anything against evolution if I had gone to a Christian University? Why? What do you know that no one else knows?

            Who cares what the “Pope” thinks. Roman Catholicism is NOT Christian. The Roman Catholic Church sided with the science of the day back in the 16th & 17th century when Copernicus and Galileo were proving that geocentricity was wrong. The Roman Catholic organization had adopted science of the Greeks concerning geocentricity which was propounded in the 2nd century AD by Claudius Ptolemaeus.

            They are once again kowtowing to bad science.

            Your triune brain theory. LOL. Evolutionist and professor of physics, James Trefil at George Mason University described the theory as “simple, elegant, clear, and completely wrong”. See,
            Trefil, J. 1997. Are we unique? A scientist explores the unparalleled intelligence of the human mind. New York, New York: John Wiley & Sons.

            Look, I don’t have time going back and forth with one given over to stupid conspiracy theories and ridiculous fairy tales about the past (which if true actually undermines rationality and your ability to even know the past). If you don’t want to debate me face-to-face then please go troll somewhere else.

          • supermike

            First of all, nobody is qualified to say anything against Evolution. That is like denying gravity. Anyone that is qualified would never argue against it. It just is. I happened, and is happening. The debate is long over among reasonable people in the 150 years since Darwin. You can probably find Flat Earthers too, but they too, are not taken seriously either. The Earth’s land was together 200 million years ago. It was called Pangea. After it broke apart and land drifted away, creatures evolved, and the ones on islands became different than other places. That’s why in Australia, the Galapagos, or Madagascar there are animals that are found nowhere else in the world. Animals like Platypus, Kangaroo, Koala are unique to Australia because they evolved there. Do you think God just figured “Well I think I’ll put all these strange creatures here on these islands so they’ll be separated from the other normal looking animals on the mainlands”? For your creationism idea to be correct, there would have to be a conspiracy between all the scientists in the world, from every imaginable field, that had carefully coordinated a huge lie. The astrophysicists, along with the geologists, the biologists, the anthropologists, and literally thousands of other sciences would have had to all sit down together, make up a fake date (being 13.8 billion years ago) for the age of the Universe, and the Solar system/Earth’s formation (4.5 billion years ago) and all agree to the timeline and swear to secrecy that the true age of the Earth could never be found out, and it was only through the existence of the Bible that the true age and origin of the Earth could be known? Not only that, but for Plate Tectonics NOT to be true, the land plates would have had to quickly fly around and crash in to each other, and then suddenly slow down exactly before scientists began measuring the movement of them. Have you ever notice how South America and Africa shorelines fit EXACTLY PERFECTLY TOGETHER? And yet, somehow, this “fake science” was able to give scientists enough information to send rockets to the moon and back with men in them. In doing so, the scientists that designed the rockets, physicists that chartered the course, and the electronics engineers, were successful using “inaccurate scientific data”? Not believing the obvious fact of reality will forever be the biggest mystery of my life. I literally can’t comprehend how any person could possibly believe in God. I wish I knew how it is done. It completely boggles my mind. I just have to believe that there is some incalculable power in what parents tell their young children and how that is received. The percentage of people that believe in God that don’t have religious parents is minuscule,

          • Jim Deferio

            Just like the number of people who believed that the Earth revolved around the sun was minuscule? LOL

            What are the three primary assumptions of radiometric dating methods? What recent events that were tested using standard radiometric methods produced very old ages even though the events were RECENT???

            What evidences strongly argues against uniformitarianism and the a slow expansion rate of tectonic plates in the past???

            What evidence shows that marsupials spread into Australia from Asia? Did you know that there are marsupials outside of Australia? But suppose there wasn’t. what does THAT have to do with macro-evolution?

            Go to The Discovery Institute, they have a document against evolution and Darwin that was signed by MANY who have earned Ph.D’s in science (those who have a non-science Ph.D are not allowed to sign it).

            Do you know what a “worldview” is? A worldview is so powerful that it often makes reasonable people be unreasonable like when soft tissue was found in a T-rex thigh bone but the evolutionists STILL maintained that it was 65 MILLION years old!!! Their worldview has made monkeys out of them!

          • supermike

            First of all, the Earth DOES go around the sun, and most people believe it. The ones that thought that the Sun went around the Earth did so because they said the Bible said so. Priests imprisoned Galileo for the rest of his life (with some house arrest) for theorizing Heliocentrism (correctly). Science can do things religion can never do. It can make predictions. 40 years ago Peter Higgs theorized a boson particle was present durning the Big Bang that created the universe 14 billion years ago. The Large Hadron Collider is the largest, most expensive, and most technologically advance structure ever made and it proved Peter Higgs was right by confirming the Higgs Boson (aka The God Particle). The last 30 years our understanding and science has grown exponentially. Don’t you think that if it wasn’t true it this is when it would have been disproven? Instead, we’ve had the entire human genome sequenced, which not only shows us exactly when we diverged from the other species, but we even found Neanderthal DNA in ours, proving we interbred with them.

          • Jim Deferio

            Are you still at this? LOL

            Perhaps you missed what I said above. Let me copy and paste it here:

            “Who cares what the “Pope” thinks. Roman Catholicism is NOT Christian. The Roman Catholic Church sided with the science of the day back in the 16th & 17th century when Copernicus and Galileo were proving that geocentricity was wrong. The Roman Catholic organization had adopted science of the Greeks concerning geocentricity which was propounded in the 2nd century AD by Claudius Ptolemaeus.”

            Geocentricity was THE science outside of Christianity for centuries!!! Finally Christians began believing it and interpreting the Bible to conform to it! You have it backwards, dude.

            Today some are trying to interpret the Bible to teach evolution and billions of years to conform to the “origin science” of the secualrists. So they come up with things like “Progressive Creationism”, “Theistic Evolution”, “Gap Theory” and there is one other.

            Theoretical physics is not science per se in that it does not utilize the scientific method. The Higgs Boson still must be tested in more experiments for that is the scientific method – hypothesis, experimentation, observation, repeatability, falsifiability, refinement of the hypothesis/theory if repeated with same results or different results.

            So-called Neanderthals were fully human. LOL

            What are you trying to prove, that you have no real basis in naturalism to even know naturalism, to know logic, to have true beliefs, and have no proofs? LOL

  • Tristan A

    People start thinking for themselves, they don’t need a priest anymore to tell the what and how to believe…

  • supermike

    I have always felt people have the right to believe what they want. Freedom of religion is part of America’s DNA. I’ve been frustrated by people that doubt Evolution in my life as it is so obvious that we’ve evolved, and are still evolving, but felt it was each person’s right to be wrong. Anthropogenic Climate Change changed that for me. The Earth is rapidly warming now, and the consequences will literally be catastrophic during this century and beyond. I believe humans and everything bigger than bacteria will almost surely be extinct this century because of it. Almost without exception, each year this century has set a new record high for global average temperature. We have lost over half the creatures on the Earth in the last 50 years, and the rate of loss is accelerating exponentially coinciding with overpopulation. Carbon dioxide turns light in to heat as it passes through it. That’s why it is called a greenhouse gas. You can measure it yourself with two jars and two thermometers with one containing more CO2 and a light bulb equal distances from them to see the temperature rise more with higher CO2. The Earth has had about 275 parts per million of CO2 about the last 20,000 years. Now it has passed 400 in about a century. Humans have never breathed air with so much, and it is rapidly melting ice and glaciers around the world, and accelerating the extinction rate of animals. Please, for you and your children’s sake, just open your mind to the possibility this is happening. We are burning 85 million barrels of oil and 24 million tons of coal every day, and this is way too much. The Pope says it is a moral obligation of each person to try to mitigate the damage that is already occurring and he is right. America has 4% of the population, but emitted 1/2 of the increased carbon in the atmosphere. We should be taking the lead in reducing it as fast as we can. Get solar panels, drive electric cars, and stick it to the oil and coal companies!