Officials Move to Take Christian Bakers’ Home After Couple Refuses to Pay $135,000 to Lesbians

Sweet-CakesPORTLAND, Ore. — Officials in Oregon have moved to take the home and/or other assets of a Christian couple as they are refusing to pay $135,000 in emotional damages to two lesbian women that filed a complaint after the couple declined to make a cake at their bakery for their “wedding” ceremony.

As previously reported, in February, a judge with the Oregon BOLI declared Aaron and Melissa Klein of Sweet Cakes by Melissa guilty of discrimination for declining to make the cake because of their Christian convictions, thus moving the matter into the sentencing phase.

The two lesbian women, Rachel Cryer and Laurel Bowman, submitted individual lists of just under 100 aspects of suffering in order to receive damages. They included “acute loss of confidence,” “doubt,” “distrust of men,” “distrust of former friends,” “excessive sleep,” “discomfort,” “high blood pressure,” “impaired digestion,” “loss of appetite,” “migraine headaches,” “loss of pride,” “mental rape,” “resumption of smoking habit,” “shock” “stunned,” “surprise,” “uncertainty,” “weight gain” and “worry.”

But the Kleins told the court that they too had suffered because of the attacks that they received over their desire to live out their Christian faith in the workplace. They stated that they endured “mafia tactics” as their car was vandalized and broken into on two occasions, their vendors were harassed by homosexual advocates resulting in some businesses breaking ties with them, and they received threatening emails wishing rape, death and Hell upon the family. As a result, they had to close their business and move it into their private home.

In April, Alan McCullough, an administrative judge with the bureau, recommended a payment of $135,000, with one of the women receiving $75,000 and the other $60,000. Prosecutors had sought damages of $75,000 each.

In June, BOLI officially accepted McCollough’s recommendation and ordered the Kleins to pay the women $135,000 in light of the damages Cryer and Bowman listed.

“This case is not about a wedding cake or a marriage,” the final order, written by Commissioner Brad Avakian, read. “It is about a business’s refusal to serve someone because of their sexual orientation. Under Oregon law, that is illegal.”

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The Kleins then asked for a stay of the order, but were denied. As they are refusing to pay the damages, officials have moved to docket the judgment and seek permission to place a property lien against the Kleins or collect the money in other ways.

“It’s difficult to understand the Kleins’ unwillingness to pay the debt when they have, very publicly, raised nearly a half million dollars,” Charlie Burr, communications director for BOLI, told reporters. “They are entitled to a full and fair review of the case, but do not have the right to disregard a legally binding order.”

But the Kleins’ state that the amount that Burr suggests the couple has raised from supporters is inflated, and regardless, the money will not be used to pay the women.

“[T]here are so many variables to where that money has to go, what has to happen with that money, that we’re not touching that money for any purpose because I don’t know what the future holds,” Aaron Klein told the Daily Signal.

He also pointed to statements the women made to Williamette Week earlier this year contending that the complaint they filed against the Kleins was not about money.

“We didn’t have a choice in how this was prosecuted,” Cryer told the outlet. “We didn’t have a choice in the fine. If we had been given the option, we probably would have said: ‘Just apologize. Just say you’re sorry and go away.’”

“[W]e’re not asking for anything. We’ve never asked for a penny from anybody,” Bowman added.

“When you have these girls come out and say we never wanted the money, it wasn’t about the money and we don’t need the money,” Klein told the Daily Signal, “I say this isn’t right. I shouldn’t have to pay this money, and the only person saying the money should exchange hands seems to be [BOLI Commissioner] Brad Avakian.”

As previously reported, some outlets had claimed this past summer that the Kleins were not ordered to pay damages for refusing to bake a cake for a lesbian’s same-sex ceremony, but were rather punished for inadvertently “publishing” the women’s addresses on Facebook by uploading the filed consumer complaint on their new personal page that only had 17 friends at the time. As the assertions were inaccurate since the Kleins were solely ordered to pay emotional damages surrounding the denial of the cake, the outlets retracted their claims and apologized for disseminating the information.


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  • Oboehner

    Emotional damages? They were already messed up, why do you think they are lesbians?

    • Kimberle Taitano

      How cruel & ignorant your comment is. By your picture aren’t you old enough to recall this countries fight for equal rights, discrimination? FYI this is NOT about a Lesbian couple it is a Human Rights, Civil Rights, discrimination…I’m sure you’ve experienced these.

      • Mark Wilder

        Yea, because in today’s liberal world Christians don’t have Human Rights anymore, Right? What about FREEDOM? Apparently in your non cruel thinking mind Christians aren’t afforded the freedom to do as they please. And the Gays aren’t free to find another baker so lets just FORCE the Christians to abide by whatever the gay and now satanists want, right? Talk about IGNORANT..!!

        • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fuck-Allen-West/840005892694409 Stu Pedasso

          If a Latino, Asian or black couple had received exactly the same treatment from this bakery, would you still be yammering on about these “Christians” and their “human rights” and “freedom”? I think not…

          • Mark Wilder

            My wife is Asian moron! So yes I would fight for their right to freedom from Satanic persecution.

          • Disqusdmnj

            You’d fight for their “right” to refuse to sell goods to your wife? How about if a hospital refuses to help her in an emergency? How about if a police officer refuses to protect her in a robbery? How about if a fireman refuses to extinguish to your burning house? You’re OK with these scenarios as well?

          • Josey

            That isn’t what is going on here, try to stay on topic and stop with the what if’s.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Get back to the real topic. This is not about Doctors Fire men or Police.

          • Disqusdmnj

            It sure is. Witness the case of the pediatrician who won’t help a lesbian couple’s daughter. A Catholic hospital who refused to give an abortion to keep the woman alive, so she and her baby passed away. (I’d be happy to cite sources, but this website doesn’t like URL’s…).

            And a clerk who won’t issue a marriage license… oh wait, nevermind – that’s already happened. And it certainly can happen if a police officer refuses to help a gay person because of his “sincerely held beliefs”. You’d have to support that as well, right?

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Sounds like you want a pity party. Sorry no pity party for you.

          • Disqusdmnj

            No pity party… just equal rights for my fellow Americans. Shame you don’t want the same.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            But this isn’t in any way relevant to this conversation. Stay on topic!

          • Disqusdmnj

            It’s very relevant to Mark’s comment above.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            It’s as relevant as a picture frame to a horse race.

            Any attempts to change the subject won’t be entertained.

            So Mark needs to stay on topic or shut his mouth.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Shame on you for not caring for these peoples souls. It is all about lust. But we as Humans should care more about the Human soul. Just because I do not support Homosexuality dose not mean I do not care for their souls. I really do . Although you’ll never understand that. But it did sound like you did want the pity party.
            Shalom < Good night. Sweet dreams.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Love isn’t lust, and LGBT who love each other and want to marry is a family attribute now guaranteed by law. And it doesn’t matter whether you “support” homosexuality. That’s like saying you don’t “support” me being color blind or having scoliosis. (For the record, I wish I didn’t have either! But hey, genetics… am I right?)

            Also, let other people worry about “souls”. Just because you believe they exist and go somewhere after we die doesn’t make it true… or false. So, no, I don’t care about something that may or may not exist. I believe in ensuring my fellow Americans are afforded the rights they deserve. And as of June, that means SSM; and per the baker’s home state, that means having to serve them as they would any other citizen.

            Shalom! 😉

          • PittsburghGal53

            It is lust. Obviously, you have never read the CDC reports about the promiscuity in the LGBT lifestyle…and the fact that, across the board, LGBT die more prematurely that people who live normal, sexual lives…research it, it’s out there.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Yes, because of the sex acts and from not using protection, the same diseases that straight people are susceptible to if they don’t use protection. It is not because of their sexual orientation.

          • PittsburghGal53

            Please do more research; I wish I would have kept the reports I read to share with you. Yes, the straight couple can contract gay diseases, too, but usually it is the wife who contracts it from the husband who has been dallying with another. Now, if the wife is dallying with a bi-sexual male outside of her marriage, then she brings the disease to her marriage bed. And, I agree to disagree with you. It is all about sexual orientation and being intimate with a person outside of one’s marriage vows is what brings STD to any couple. BTW, anal sex is the least hygienic of all, with or without protection…high risk of contracting too many pathogens.

          • Disqusdmnj

            AIDS can be contracted through blood transfusions. Syphilis can be contracted through purely hetero sex. HPV can be contracted and cause cancer. Nothing is exclusive to homosexual contact. You are correct that infidelity can bring such disease into a marriage, but orientation has nothing to do with it – *activity* does.

            No sexual orientation has a monopoly on doing something outside of a “monogamous” relationship… there are scads of Christians, Muslims, Catholics, Jews, Atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, and every other belief system under the sun who’ve broken the marriage covenant!

          • PittsburghGal53

            While AIDS can be acquired thru transfusion, the incident of that occurring is extremely rare, given that the medical provider would have outrageous liability in that case. Other STDs can and are acquired thru any type of sexual activity when one does not know the partner; that is why God’s plan of sexual activity within the confines on a martial relationship is the correct plan for mankind. While I agree with you that it is the immorality which brings the disease, the point is that the highest risk of transmission for AIDS remains with homosexual activity.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            All sexual immorality is lust.Not only same sex. In these days even married people take part in sexual immorality.* You know like cheating or switching partners for the night*The list is sexual immorality is very long . It would take me forever to try to type it as I do not cut and past. All sexual immorality is wrong in the eyes of God.

          • Disqusdmnj

            He seemed OK with multiple wives… that creeps me out.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            The People chose to have all those wives. God did not choose for them to have all those wives. God’s free will for Humanity gave them the freedom to choose what they wanted.God gave Humanity free will all the way from the beginning. I think Salomon had the most wives and he turned from God in the end of his life. He turned to the gads of his wives.God was not happy with him at the end of his life.God dose not choose for us. He lets us choose for ourselves. Free choice often leads to bad choices. Although we can not blame God for the choices (((((((WE)))))))) choose. In the end we can only blame ourselves. You are tying to blame God for the choices of Humanity. You can not blame God for our choices we make. I am glad I was not born at a time or place where men had many wives. I don’t think I would want to share my Husband with other Women.
            Shalom<

          • RWH

            These are the same sentiments expressed by the Catholic Church as they burned Protestants at the stake or people staged progroms against the Jews. People that opposed civil rights in the 1950s and 60s expressed the same sentiments. They’re “concerned” about souls as long as those people keep their place and not rock the boat. If they were truly honest, they would admit that their “concern” is really license to hurt others who refused to mind their Ps and Qs. History has shown that most people who are “concerned” about souls are really looking for an reason to excuse their loathing and contempt for others. Even the Nazis used this “concern” to exterminate the Jews because they feared for the “souls” of innocent Christian children. Calvin College has an extensive web site of Nazi material. A perusal of that site is enlightening. Every evil thing they did was shrouded in terms of love.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            I am not Catholic. I an also not Protestant. I was not part of it. God will deal with every one who took part of killing His chosen people. Hitler and his followers Are in a special place.I was not born in Hitlers time but I know he was an evil man! I am not them so don’t even go there. I do care about souls!! Do NOT compare me to them. That is making YOU no better than them.
            Shalom <

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            You are drawing great fire, LadyFreeBird! Proof that you speak the truth for the One Who IS Truth!

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Thank you World Gone Crazy!

          • Jean Adams

            It’s not about race. It’s not a sin to be a different race. It’s about participating in the sin of same sex marriage which is against God’s law, we are told not to participate in other’s sin.

          • Disqusdmnj

            SSM might be against God’s law, but it is no longer against U.S. Constitutional law. And the Klein’s broke US law.

          • PittsburghGal53

            and the US will pay for violating God’s law…

          • Disqusdmnj

            How?

          • PittsburghGal53

            It is already occurring, but the blind do not see it.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Not really an answer, nor evidence of a deity making us “pay” for something. Feel free to enlighten me!

          • PittsburghGal53

            God is not making people ‘pay’ for their sin; the payment is the consequence of not following God’s plan for mankind.

          • softengine

            Well, that’s not nice! Calling your wife an Asian moron…..Smh.

          • http://youtube.com/Krazie316 André Berry

            Troll…

          • Jean Adams

            Only if the Latino, Asian or black couple were asking them to contribute to their wedding would there be the same result as same sex relationships are an abomination to God. We are told to not partake of their sin. Stop trying to make out they’re prejudiced because of anything else.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Mason’s Second Law.

          • Valri

            Isn’t that cute? Coining “laws” for yourself.

            Black skin – out of a person’s control
            Sexuality – out of a person’s control
            Eye color – out of a person’s control

            See how it works yet? See why your “law” has more holes in it than swiss cheese?

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Sexual behavior, like any other kind of behavior, can be modified. Use your noodle.

          • Valri

            Right, which is why Exodus International, formerly the largest “ex-gay” organization, closed their doors, admitted fraud, and apologized to all their clients.

            “Sexual behavior can be modified,” eh? Got a science link that you can back that up with? Didn’t think so.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Irrelevant.

          • Valri

            Irrelevant? HELLO! They ADMITTED THEY WERE FRAUDS! They APOLOGIZED to gay and lesbian people! They closed their doors! Why don’t you running away with your fingers in your ears?

          • PittsburghGal53

            I am not sure what you know about Exodus International, but it appears you know little and are using a headline you saw as a weapon against God & Christians to prove LGBT has won the issue. That is simply not the case. Alan Chambers did apologize to those to whom he ministered, but his apology was made for what he determined to be an ineffective therapy. Exodus International made the grave error of not leading people to Christ, the only real life-changer there is, but to man-made modes of treatment. BTW, While Exodus International may have closed its ministries, dozens of ministries have sprung up across the globe, a network which is named Exodus Global Alliance. Additionally, Alan Chambers has moved on in his life to marry and have children. He now is in a more family-oriented ministry.

          • Valri

            So you think that the way to “correct” people’s orientation is to give them a big extra helping of Jesus? You think that is what is going to achieve the impossible? I don’t know where you people get your garbage from.

          • PittsburghGal53

            “Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matt 19:26

          • Valri

            Obviously with God all things are NOT possible, because YOU have God – or at least think you do – and maintain an intolerance towards homosexuals.

          • PittsburghGal53

            My intolerance is against the behavior, not the person. Are you able to differentiate between the two?

          • Blaylock

            pray the gay away…where’s Marcus Bachman????

          • PittsburghGal53

            Plenty of people out there who give testimony that they converted back to normal sexual orientation/behavior after living a LGBT lifestyle. The majority of these were born again and received God into their lives. Research it, it’s out there on the Internet. People do not have the strength to change on their own, but with God’s help, they do change.

          • Valri

            No, they didn’t. That is impossible. Do just five minutes of looking into what conversion therapy entails and you’ll find out. Telling someone to avoid contact with the same sex isn’t curing anything, you’re starving them of love and affection. You cannot change what you are attracted to.

            Watch this if you REALLY want your eyes opened.

            http://www.ibtimes. co. uk/cure-me-im-gay-its-impossible-says-former-gay-conversion-therapist-1441009

          • PittsburghGal53

            I’m not talking about ‘conversion therapy’…I am talking about repentance, rebirth in Christ, and throwing off one’s sinful ways to follow God’s plan. Are you ready to do that?? THAT is the question that you have to answer in your soul.

          • Valri

            Not one single thing you said has anything to do with compassionately allowing a homosexual person to live the life they wish to live with the person they have fallen in love with. If that’s your idea of Christianity, no wonder so many people want nothing to do with it.

          • PittsburghGal53

            Well, Valri, the saddest part of peoples’ arrogance and rebellion against God and His precepts is the total deception of them thinking THEY are right and His precepts are wrong, when in fact, it is the other way around. Without repentance and rebirth, yours is the standard opinion.

          • Blaylock

            sure they did

          • PittsburghGal53

            Don’t take my word, do your homework. BTW, forget conversion therapy. It doesn’t work since it is man initiated.

          • PittsburghGal53

            Black skin – unchangable trait determined thru genetics
            Sexuality – behavior, not unchangable trait.
            Eye color – unchangable trait determined thru genetics

          • Blaylock

            thankfully modern science completely disagrees with you

          • PittsburghGal53

            Incorrect. No cigar for you!

        • Matthew T. Mason

          It seems in the USA that’s the case. It was only two days ago a monster masquerading as a human specifically sought and shot Christians, with nary a negative word from the left condemning anything but the gun.

          • Valri

            Speaking of monsters masquerading as Christians, when are you going to admit that your hatred of homosexuals has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus Christ?

          • PittsburghGal53

            Christ came to fulfill the requirements of the Law, not abolish it. Those covered under His blood have salvation from the Law, but those who choose to remain uncovered, remain under the Law.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Everything about the mass killing is appalling, but the current reports are that he identified as a Christian, and killed other Christians because of believing they would go straight to heaven.

          • MamaBear

            He most certainly did not identify himself as a Christian. He had at least some connection with the occult, but is not known to actually be a member of any particular occult sect. Regardless, it was a crime of hatred and persecution of Christians, like ISIS killing those who identify as Christians.

          • Basset_Hound

            From what I read, he asked several people if they were Christians. If they said “yes”, he shot them in the head

          • MamaBear

            That is what I read, too.

          • PittsburghGal53

            Actually, he was muslim and was on an EU terrorist watch list…

          • Disqusdmnj

            Yes, my mistake. Earlier reports didn’t state that.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Not true. He also said he was a conservative Republican, but he also hated organized religion.

          • Disqusdmnj

            Yeah, I did see that in subsequent reports. Mea culpa.

        • respectourdifferences

          “Yea, because in today’s liberal world Christians don’t have Human Rights anymore, Right?”

          What rights don’t Christians have that other people have?

          “What about FREEDOM?”

          What about it?

          “Christians aren’t afforded the freedom to do as they please.”

          Anti-discrimination laws apply to all businesses, not just those owned by Christians.

          “so lets just FORCE the Christians to abide by”

          Owning a business is a choice. What products the business offers is a choice. There is not “forcing”.

        • respectourdifferences

          “Yea, because in today’s liberal world Christians don’t have Human Rights anymore, Right?”

          What human rights do Christians in the US not have anymore?

          “Apparently in your non cruel thinking mind Christians aren’t afforded the freedom to do as they please.”

          No one is “afforded the freedom to do as they please”. We all live under the law, which puts restrictions on our ability to do as we please.

          “so lets just FORCE the Christians to abide by whatever the gay and now satanists want, right?”

          There is no forcing. If they don’t want to provide wedding cakes, they don’t have to.

      • Jean Adams

        It’s about the right to practice your faith. They were happy to serve these women in their store and regularly did. They only objected to being a part of their wedding which is against God’s law.

      • Matthew T. Mason

        Lolol!

      • http://youtube.com/Krazie316 André Berry

        Comparing homosexuals to my ancestors is taking apples and oranges to the extreme. Its extremely offensive and incredibly illogical.

        The mind is relative to ones choices, experiences, and actions, through what’s known as brain plasticity. Genetics don’t work the same way.

        Homosexuals having the same symmetrical or asymmetrical patterns as their opposites doesn’t necessarily mean they were born with it. They could very well have been normal and developed alternate patters identical with those of their anatomical opposites through psychosocial means (actions, choices and experiences over time).

        Because the neurons can re wire themselves and change the size of their connections and everything. It is a very complex medley of operations that points to the ability to control the brains wiring both through actions/choices/experiences, and genetics.

        There is one universal concept that hasn’t changed though. Genetics don’t bring about a reproduction of actions through breeding. Homosexuals don’t reproduce homosexual children. However, black, Asian, Hispanic couples all reproduce their respective attributes in their children without fail every time. This is clearly not indicative to psychosocial interactions and is purely genetic. Being ghetto or proper, and even homosexual, on the other hand, is not genetic, yet psychosocial. Hence some of every culture/lifestyle is in every race.

      • Oboehner

        They had the equal right to go elsewhere and not trample on the equal rights of the bakery. I can tell by your whiney comment you are one of those who believe they are born that way, they are not, it is a result of a mental defect. Why else does one almost always take the male role and the other the female.

    • RWH

      Could it be that the couple sustained emotional damage because the Klines released their names and contact information, and the couple also received death threats. According to news reports, that couple had to move for fear that something would happen to their children. The Klines hands are not clean in this respect as well.

      • Matthew T. Mason

        If you read the article, that is a hollow argument.

        • RWH

          The argument may be hollow to you, but that is your problem. There has been enough written from various sources for everyone pretty much figure out the entire story.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Not my problem. Read the article.

      • Oboehner

        Everyone has emotion trauma, oh the horror!! Time to rub some dirt in it and move on.

    • Valri

      Probably not a good idea to spout hate, bigotry and stupidity on a Christian website.

      • Matthew T. Mason

        What are you talking about?

      • Oboehner

        I just stated the facts, truth is always a good thing on a Christian website.

        • Valri

          “Messed up” is a fact, huh? Whose? Jack Chick’s? How about someone who ISN’T on the SPLC’s hate speech list?

          • Oboehner

            The SPLC IS hate.

          • Valri

            No, the SPLC is a WATCHDOG group against hate, as evidenced by their mission statement. Why would you object to someone who stands up to the KKK and American Family Association and Westboro Baptist Church?

          • Oboehner

            In other words, because they say so… whatever. They stand up against any conservative group with half-truths and outright lies further fueled by heavily slanted propaganda. The few groups they have right doesn’t excuse the numerous others they demonize unjustly.

        • Blaylock

          just opinion…nothing more

          • Oboehner

            Yes and you are entitled to yours.

  • Dana Rosovich Cruz

    This is ridiculous, why is that Christians are always under attack. The list this couple put together, started smoking again…weak, no one can buy those cigarettes and light them. This is an excuse to smoke again. Weight gain, well then you certainly don’t need a cake. Mental rape, what! Come on this is nonsense. Yet the fact the bakers car has been broken into, they’ve received death treats and have lost vendors because of this is unreal. I pray God protects the Klein family. It’s shameful, I thought as a business owner you had the right to refuse services to anyone.

    • Kimberle Taitano

      GOD is protecting the Lesbian couple. This is not about same sex couples, Marriage…it is a human & Civil rights issue. No person has a right to discriminate based on, hmm don’t you know this? Race, religion, age, sexual orientation…This “Christian couple” and I say that knowing full well they are not. As a Christian myself I am appalled by ” pseudo/fake, self righteous “Christians” who like you are nowhere close to it. So much Hate, as you zelots twist GOD’s WORD, judge, condemn, and other hate fueled Non-Christian things.

      None of you are GOD, you do not speak for HIM, it is NOT your right to do HIS work.

      To all you false believers….I’d be very very careful because GOD is watching you…

      Thank you GOD for the justice being executed on this false couple…YOURE WILL is always done…

      • Jan Neely

        As God is watching you as well with your holier han thou attitude. Careful the false person appears to be you.

      • Dana Rosovich Cruz

        We are all here to voice our opinion. Who are you to decide who is a Christian and who is not. In my mind that’s not very Christian of you. Judge not my friend.

        • Conrad

          Please quote the next verse too. That verse does not stand alone.

          • Dana Rosovich Cruz

            Matthew 7:1-3 (NIV)
            Judging Others
            7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

          • softengine

            Thank you! The ‘judge not’ quote gets regurgitated by non-Christians again and again, …always taken out of context. Why would they not want the verse to be thought of in its context? Because it is condemning.

        • Names_Stan

          Who are you to decide who is a Christian and who is not.

          I think they get a certificate of some kind. Maybe for a $25 donation to a televangelist or something.

          It obviously says God grants them full rights of “Eternal Fate Decisioning Based On a Couple of Paragraphs”

          There’s also a clause that allows them to brand themselves as True Christians™ and Real Christians™.

      • Dana Rosovich Cruz

        Another thing I really don’t think anyone thought we were God or speaking for him or doing his work..

      • Conrad

        Really? You say that God is protecting people whom God has very clearly that their life style is an abomination to Him? Really? This is the same God who stated very clearly that He does not change. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. Call the act of Homosexuality whatever you want, the label matters not. It is still a sin. God loves the sinner, yes, but hates the sin. Repent and be saved.

      • Mark Bouckaert

        You are absolutely correct. The courts and public agree. Civil marriage is not religious marriage. People need to realize that and move on to more important issues.

      • softengine

        Zealots. Not zelots. And “YOURE WILL is always done…” Should be “you’re”. And no, God is no protecting the lesbians.

        • KR Taylor

          Um, actually it should be “your”. If she wrote it with your ‘corrections’ it would say “you are will be done”. No.

      • Matthew T. Mason

        “GOD is protecting the lesbian couple.”

        Obviously you have no idea what you’re talking about.

        That, and suggesting God favors homosexuality and same-sex marriage…you are the one that needs to be careful.

      • http://youtube.com/Krazie316 André Berry

        @Kimberle Taitano: You’re out of your radical left wing mind lol. Via your own quote the Kleins are being discriminated against for their religion. I highly doubt you ever met Christ based on your twisted sense of everything regarding his law.

        Your definitions of hate and bigotry are skewed and void of logic and reason. they are, however, loaded with propaganda talking points.

        Bigotry requires intolerance. Tolerance and acceptance are NOT one in the same. You can tolerate something and not accept it, which is what we do daily. If you want to see real intolerance, and therefore bigotry, go to the middle east and see what they do to Christians and homosexuals.

        Hate is to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest:

        We dont hate anyone nor do we have hostility towards anyone.

        If you only read the first verse of Matthew 7 yeah, if you continue reading the remaining 4 versus in its proper context it goes as follows:

        Matthew 7:1-5King James Version (KJV)

        7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

        2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

        3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

        4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

        5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

        The key is in verse 5. It teaches against hypocritical judgment. Its not saying not to judge because we are commanded to judge righteously

        John 7:24

        24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

        Leviticus 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

        Proverbs 31:9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

        1Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

        Etc, etc, etc.

        We are not to judge hypocritically, meaning while guilty of the EXACT SAME sin:

        Romans 2:1-3

        1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

        2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

        3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

        This is beside the fact that repeating what’s already written is NOT judging.

        We are doing what we are supposed to scripturally

        Isaiah 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

        I’m convinced you’re a brain dead troll…

      • PittsburghGal53

        I am not sure which god you are referring to;certainly not the Triune God of Scripture who abhors sexual perversion.

    • Josey

      I agree with your prayer for their protection and peace of mind.

    • respectourdifferences

      “why is that Christians are always under attack.”

      They aren’t.

    • Marty Holden

      well, they aren’t being held to task for their beliefs, their being held to take for violating another’s civil rights. We live here in these United states. You want to practice your Sharia go form your own country somewhere else.

  • Trace

    Why would any person want to live in a State that supports euthanasia and assisted suicide, if a person tries to change the populace they will get sued or dead.

  • FoJC_Forever

    The LORD isn’t protecting the lesbians. A US government entity is punishing American citizens for refusing to participate in a homosexual “wedding”. It has already been established that the couple had previously served these two women, despite them being homosexuals. The problem arose when they refused to participate in something clearly stated in Scripture as wrong.

    This is religious persecution, plain and simple. The USA is awash in Darkness.

    Judgement is coming.

    • Marty Holden

      according to the Bible and Jesus Christ it is gods will. That government’s were installed by god. It’s very explicit. No ambiguity followed by the Order “give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s”. By you completely ignoring said admonitions, it is you that is awash in darkness.

      • Jean Adams

        They are upholding the law ‘do not partake in their sins’ and he Old and New Testaments state that same sex relations are an
        abomination before God.

      • http://youtube.com/Krazie316 André Berry

        False, lets address one of the worst cases of cherry picking by secular extremists. We, as Christians, are often told to obey the government with an incomplete citation of Romans 13. People (non-believers and baby Christians) love to quote verses 1-2 while leaving out 3-6 which exposes the TRUE meaning of the set.

        Romans 13 1-6

        1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

        2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

        ~~~~Non-believers stop here~~~~

        Lets continue in the spirit of cotext though…

        3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

        4 For he is the MINISTER OF GOD to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

        5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

        6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for THEY ARE GOD’S MINISTERS, attending continually upon this very thing.

        As you can clearly see, the governing authorities here are MINISTERS OF GOD, not corrupt, reprobate governments.

        Now, in the spirit of hermeneutics, lets see who the grand master of authority really is:

        Acts 5:29

        Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

        There you have it ladies and gentlemen. God, not man, is the architect of righteousness and authority. There will be a time (unless some of you are already experiencing this) where you must choose God over all else, family included.

        for Jesus said in John 15:18-27King James Version (KJV)

        18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

        19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

        20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

        21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.

        22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

        23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

        24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

        25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

        26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

        27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

        Be encouraged in your walk with Christ for you are not alone. Never let up, and never give in.

        please share this post or use this refutation in your own way any time you see this abuse of scripture in your circles. We need to saturate threads with truth over the lies of those who use partial scriptures.

        • F. Lopez

          Good post!

        • Kelly Samuelson

          That was amazing! Great job!

        • afchief

          One thing you miss. Man is NOT our authority in America. What do our elected officials take an oath to uphold, defend and obey? The Constitution, state Constitutions and local laws!!! This means that in America the “higher powers” are not the men who occupy elected office, they are the tenets and principles set forth in the U.S. Constitution. Under our laws and form of government, it is the duty of every citizen, including our elected officials, to obey the U.S. Constitution.

          The Constitution is our governing authority in America, not man!

          • Philip Carrell

            ….and God is still above that! Even the Declaration of Independence bows to the Creator God when it reads: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,–That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

            Do you not see the hierarchy there? Creator (God) first, government second, but only allowed to exist by the will of the people. The Costitution of the united States of America is founded on this principal.

          • afchief

            Yes, I agree!

          • Marty Holden

            declaration of independence is not law, never was. It was merely a statement of intent and reasoning. Do you not see your interpretation makes zero difference, it is the secular constitution that we live by. And the aforementioned scammers have to pay. one way or another for violation that law for all peoples, not just yours. But then, you covet it as all yours, if not personally.

          • Snowflake0446

            But as we all know Progressives, by their very name, don’t want to hold to that which was or the original intent of the Founders, but want to move “forward” to what they want, irregardless of the Constitution, which is why the Oath of Office is meaningless drivel to them and they say it just so they can have power and do what they want.

            Fortunately for us, we have a powerful God who has and will allow such atrocities in our Nation to fulfill His purpose. I am in no way suggesting passivity. But at the same time, Rev. 4 – 19 don’t exactly paint a rosy picture so somehow we will get there, by God’s decree.

          • afchief

            To the mentally disordered Left, anyone who believes in Judeo-Christianity, capitalism, Constitutional government, individual liberty, property rights, a national defense second to none, secure borders, a balanced budget, fiscal sanity, and the limited federal government as envisioned by the Founding Fathers, is considered a “crazy.”

            To be called “crazy” by the biggest liar, the biggest fraud, the biggest jerk, and the most corrupt, contemptible, destructive human wrecking ball to ever defile the White House, and his stooges, some of which are posting here, is an honor.

            The Left IS what it accuses its opponents of being.

          • Snowflake0446

            But isn’t that what we expect? To them it is simply foolishness because our Constitution and those who are Christ-followers are from God. They know we preach Christ-crucified. They hear it in their heads and they want no part of it. I Cor 1:18. Proc. 1:6-7…Fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge…but fools despise wisdom and instruction. If you understand the way most Proverbs are written, you can see that there’s an opposition and a similarity in both phrases. The opposition is “Fear of the Lord” vs “Fools”. The similarity is “knowledge” and “wisdom and instruction”.

            I believe all this because anyone (not just the Left) who does not fear the Lord, will consider us crazy, terrorists, and many other names. That should never deter us. We should expect it. They think we’re fools, but God says they are fools.

            So, as Paul would say, “Be of good cheer” everything is going exactly as God ordained because Matt 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14″For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

            Do you see it in the above statement? Do you see that those who are against God will certainly seem successful, like the majority? I’m not saying that success automatically means someone is against God. But what I am saying is that we, as Christ-followers, will always, always be in the minority. Our life will be difficult and God never allows for slacking. If I go 3 mph over the speed limit, a police officer will invariably pull me over, not because they didn’t meet their quota, but because God expects more of me. Same with all those who claim the name of Christ.

            Of those who were asked the question at Umpqua Community College in Oregon, how many do you think until that moment claimed Christianity? We know how many stood and were shot in the head. Those, were Christ-followers…to the end. Again, this life is not easy. You want easy? Then join those who went through the wide-gate. But you want a life where God squeezes every last ounce of faith out of you, every last ounce of trust in Him? You’re in the right place.

            As Andre Berry above said, “Be encouraged in your walk with Christ for you are not alone. Never let up, and never give in.”

          • Blaylock

            so wrong in so many ways

          • Marty Holden

            and the constitution say no respect for religion. It doesn’t belong in the governance of man.

        • Snowflake0446

          If I may throw in my $0.02. 🙂 One of the confusing aspects of this verse, which is easily remedied is what is good and what is evil in this context? Many people, myself included, initially want to think that good is defined by the law and evil is what is against the law. But that’s not the case. The Acts 5:29 statement clears that up immediately: God is the author of what is good and even defines what is evil. In addition our own conscience tells us…most times…unless it has been seared. Rom 1.

          Rom 13 also tends to confuse me and I’m sure others as well, but your statements above, I believe, rightly define what’s going on. v1 – “ordained of God”. One of my initial thoughts is that God only allows for good in our lives. Therefore if something is ordained by God it is good. Yet, we know that Job’s suffering was ordained by God. Joseph was sold into slavery (by God). The blind man in John 9 was ordained by God. Many other things are ordained by God to fulfill His purposes. That doesn’t mean that the leaders who are ordained by God are good. It simply means that they have been authorized (ordained) by God to do His will, to bring about His purposes…to bring about Rev 4 – 22 and all the incomplete prophecies in the Bible.

          Please let me know if you find fault with my statements. I’m here to learn.

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Excellent Biblical apologetics, Andre! I too, cannot stand the way that Romans 13 is mis-used – often as an excuse for cowardice or laziness. Thank you for spending the time to post this – great job! I am copying and giving you credit when I post this! All Glory to God!

          • http://youtube.com/Krazie316 André Berry

            Absolutely all glory to God who guides us. I made an edit to bring the family portion into context adding Matthew 10:32-40

            32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

            33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

            34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

            35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
            daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother
            in law.

            36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.

            37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and
            he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

            38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

            39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

            40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

      • FoJC_Forever

        He was talking about money, not advocating the support of Sin. Paying taxes isn’t a sin. He was also turning away those who wanted to make him a criminal by getting him to tell people not to pay taxes to the Roman government – which wasn’t a sin. Those who questioned Him did not care about Truth, they just wanted to get Him into trouble with the authorities. Being the Word of God, He used Wisdom to befuddle their attempt.

        Jesus (the) Christ does not command us to obey a law which goes directly against God’s Will. Our command from the LORD, under the New Covenant in Jesus, is not to execute the penalties for sins written in the Mosaic Law. We are to tell homosexuals they can be saved from their Sin through Jesus, not participate in their Sin. The same is Truth for non-homosexuals. Love doesn’t compel people to sidestep a sin, but to encourage people to accept God’s Word concerning Sin and and let the Holy Spirit empower them to resist temptations and overcome the power of Sin.

        The falsely religious always try to use the Scriptures to advocate and make excuses for their acceptance of Sin and rejection of Salvation through Jesus (the) Christ.

        • Marty Holden

          have you read “This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

          7 does away with your tiny understanding. See you’re cherry picking again. making a cherry pie?

          • FoJC_Forever

            Again, and this Truth is Eternal, God never commands His people to follow laws which violate His Will. You “cherry pick”, then accuse others who actually take the whole council of God, rather than pushing their on agendas as you do, of “cherry picking”. I believe that’s called hypocrisy.

            You say “respect”, but your attitude is belligerent and arrogant. I think you’re just trying to provoke.

            Follow Jesus, find Truth.

          • Marty Holden

            as is yours little one. It does not say I have to respect. It say you have to respect the governrnent and it’s laws. and why wouldn’t I be belligerent to an apostate

          • Marty Holden

            and no dear, I quote jesus and his actions, you put words into his mouth he never said and he lived under a law he never mentions once. It is your agenda you’re trying to codify, not the other way around. Constitutionally, it is that is infringing. and your republican Jesus never existed at all.

        • Marty Holden

          Funny you should try to do the same thing you accuse me of when I present the WHOLE thing, not just stop at the place it undoes your argument.

        • Marty Holden

          I also say respect and honor. don’t you think it’s about time you did apostate?

          • FoJC_Forever

            You are a dangerous person, and certainly no one who needs to be presenting Scripture. You don’t know Jesus (the) Christ. All you know is your own anger and hatred.

            Judgement is coming.

          • Marty Holden

            actually you are since you don’t know it or Jesus. You put words into his mouth he never spoke, and funny how you should project yourself on me when it is that want to give less rights than a corpse. And you’re right, I am a dangerous person to the mind of all who falsely speak in his name. You’re right, you judgement is coming apostate. You’re liitle better than the hypocrite Mathew 23:8-27.

            Be careful when you exalt yourself little one, for you know little, and say much.

      • Matthew T. Mason

        What?

      • Crystal

        When Jesus was talking about “Render under Caesar what is Caesar’s”, he was talking about paying taxes. And when He was talking about the Governments that were installed by God, they were Godly governments who followed God’s Will, but the Governments of today are being put in place by evil God-rejecting men, but God will allow them to remain, because only He can use evil to accomplish a good purpose! He is giving everyone a chance to make the right choice: Either serve Him in freedom, or serve Satan in bondage!

      • David Bryan

        WRONG!!! God’s law is always first! Romans 13:1-6

        • Marty Holden

          You’d better read it again. And you should probably add 13:7. You see, Jesus was saying God put the governments in place so obey them. Notice there was no requirement for the government to reciprocate to either the people NOR God. Jesus could have easily done so. Like abortion, he did not.

    • Marty Holden

      BTW, who are you going to follow, Jesus, or the Old testament?

      • Matthew T. Mason

        The New Testament condemns homosexuality as well. Oops.

        • Marty Holden

          Yes in Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:9-10

          All written by the same guy. Paul. Not Jesus. Jesus said not a word against it. Paul is the author, and Paul takes credit for the statements. Nowhere does it attribute the Statements to Jesus.
          There is one statement that has been Interpreted as endorsement of male/female bonding, but it was only in the context of divorce, and only in reference to the parties and their dispute which Jesus was very much against “have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning “made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

          Now there are many (a majority) that interpret that Jesus was making commentary on marriage strictly between one man and one woman even though even at the time it was one man, many woman and several other arraigments; however, there has always been a number of scholars, and a growing consensus, that interpret it in the larger context of any two souls that wish to binds themselves before God may do so. What seems to be missing from both is Jesus’s absolute prohibition against divorce. Been divorced?

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Dude, #1, you don’t know what Jesus said because you weren’t there. But if His Father, God, said no, then so does Jesus, as He said He and His Father are One.

            And Jesus defined marriage as being between a man and a woman. There is no but.

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            WOW! Talk about being full of oneself. Marty you take the cake in that department for sure. Obviously in your genius fantasy world you missed English Literature, along with Philosophy and the art of logical debate. Logical fallacies are a serious faux pas in debate. And reading something within its context is essential to understanding the authors true intent. Aside from that, your pride and anger show just what an emotional mess you truly are, and that is sad. Have you sought out counseling for these emotional and irrational behaviors. I am sure I could contact some of my Psychology professors, who could suggest a good therapist for you, if you like. Then again, Narcissists are difficult to treat because they fail to see that they actually have a psychological problem. I’ll be praying that God will help you see and understand His word, and that you let go of your arrogant pride. God Bless.

      • FoJC_Forever

        “Who will you follow? Satan, or the Author of Life, Jesus, Paid the price, God made the sacrifice, For You!”

        If you do not believe the Scriptures of what we call the Old Testament, then you will not believe in Jesus.

        Follow Jesus, find Truth.

        Follow Jesus, find Salvation.

        Follow Jesus, find Wisdom.

        Follow Jesus, find Life.

        • Marty Holden

          Really, OK.

          Contained in the 613 mitzvot and observed since before the time of David, are that life begins with first breath. That fetus is not considered a person until they are more than halfway born, hat abortion was legal, practiced, common among the rich and in some cased required under Jewish law to preserve the life of the ACTUAL person. These laws exist there to this day. In fact the fetus was the Property of the husband, not a life, how ever, the pregnant was the property of the husband but WAS a person.

          Jesus was born under and grew up with these laws. In his entire time here on Earth, throughout his entire short life and his ministry, to his brutal end he said not one word against it. He said a lot of things to many, but not that. He railed against those that did not observe the commandments, but not that. He railed against the money changers, but not that. He protected Woman from graft and brutality, but not that.

          If it was so immoral and tantamount to “murder” of a
          “baby/infant”, Why is it he never railed against that. He
          was familiar with the practice, knew it was occurring in real time,
          in likely close proximity and abroad in other cultures as well.

          The only reasonable conclusion is he didn’t see it as breaking a major commandment, the fetus as a person, or immoral. Do you place Their morality and divinity before The Christ’s and find His wanting? Would not the Holy ghost intervene if you follow that schism?

          How do you do feel about that now?

          • FoJC_Forever

            I don’t trust your reiteration of ancient practices. Even if you are stating them correctly, you have only stated the heinousness of abortion… and under a story about two people being punished for no participating in another persons sin.

            Just because the rich practiced something doesn’t make it God’s Will. His Will has always been that people live in Righteousness before Him and act rightly towards others. Abortion kills human life by burning and ripping the child apart.

            The Holy Spirit witnesses that abortion is the murder of a child, the shedding of innocent blood. Not only do the Scriptures state this emphatically, they also condemn traditions created by people which are contrary to God’s Will.

            You are one wicked person. I shudder to think anyone would give you charge over their child. Your view of human life is despicable.

          • Don Sbragia

            Where exactly does the Scripture emphatically state that abortion is the murder of a child? I must have missed that in my 200 plus cover to cover readings of the entire Bible. Can you please enlighten me? And then can you explain to me why, if this is true, why did God kill babies in Egypt and why did God command the Hebrews to kill men, women, children, and… unborn babies?

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            Reading does not equal understanding or comprehension, any more than hearing equals listening, or viewing equals seeing. Your argument is a complete fallacy!

          • Marty Holden

            Actually your is without citing fault with his argument. It shows you neither have understanding of the question, or aa depp OR wide understanding of scripture. Just an adolescent facile one. The best kind for getting duped. Christ was very explicit. Follow the Laws of Government, pay your taxes, be good to one another. With Zero mention of abortion.

          • Marty Holden

            LOL then Jesus must have been Wicked too. Have fun with that.

          • Marty Holden

            Oh and I’ve raised three, who have 2 each. All my kids ear over 100k a year, and My grandson is considered a math genious since I taught him alg over the weekends when he visited. Now he’s in
            AP math and science as a freshman and loves the hobby of astronomy since I bought him a telescope and showed how to use it and record his findings. So little man, Why mine are looking out to the universe, yours still have 200o y/o Bronze age book shove up their tail pipe. Have fun with that too. You don’t WHAT the Holy Spirit Witnesses. You”re so far away from Christ’s teaching at this point the only thing you have in common is you both Cap on a regular basis, although in your case, the jury’s out. Christ never said a word, so you have to say it for him, is that it. Well my dear, that’s an Apostate. Have fun in hell. I know I will. You’l,l be the main attraction. I promise.

          • Marty Holden

            Now would you like to address what I wrote like I did you, or are you just going to blather on about what Jesus DIDN’t say

          • Marty Holden

            It’s IN Jewish LAW going back to before David. It’s in the original 613 mitzvot. Not just the rich, but everyone had the right. Rich or Poor. It that way to this day. Oh, and you’re already paying for that through subsidies to Israel. Jesus never said a word, therefore, did not find it objectionable or murder.

      • Pianogirl

        Both condemn homosexuality.

        • Marty Holden

          It condemns a lot of things. Most of which you’ve broken more than once. Shall we start stoning you?

    • respectourdifferences

      “The problem arose when they refused to participate in something clearly stated in Scripture as wrong.”

      Where is it clearly stated in scripture that a party to celebrate a civil marriage between two citizens of the same gender is “wrong”?

      • FoJC_Forever

        Why should I waste Scripture on those who reject Truth? I shouldn’t. If you wanted to know the Truth, you would seek the LORD and let Him show you that anything relating to homosexuality is sinful. Affirming a marriage union between two of the same gender is also affirming homosexuality. Homosexuality is against God’s Will.

        • respectourdifferences

          So you can’t cite where in scripture it is clearly stated that a party to celebrate a civil marriage between two citizens of the same gender is “wrong”. Got it. Thanks.

          • FoJC_Forever

            I can cite many Scriptures. You don’t want to know the Truth, so citing Scripture isn’t going to convince you.

            I hope you realize your response is a canned one. Most surely you do, since you keep making the same one over and over. You keep going in circles, and I’m standing there watching you chase your tail.

          • respectourdifferences

            “I can cite many Scriptures.”

            If you can cite a passage in scripture that says which says that a party to celebrate a civil marriage between two citizens of the same gender is “wrong”, I would most certainly be convinced that such a passage exists, as it obviously would.

            I hope you realize that your response is yet another attempt at deflecting from your inability to prove what you said.

          • FoJC_Forever

            I can’t cite a passage which tells me specifically that Gary Anderson is not to murder Bob Johnson. This is what you mean by being specific. You’re playing word games. I can however cite a Scripture that tells me that it is a sin for Gary Anderson, or anyone, to murder Bob Johnson, or anyone. More importantly, I can hear the Holy Spirit tell me it’s wrong to murder others, and wrong to commit any kind of sin against others as well.

            You don’t care about Scripture, nor Truth, nor God’s Will, nor about being saved from your Sin. You just want to catch people in logic loops and flip their words against them.

            You can be saved from this form of Sin, however. It is the sin people practiced who always harassed the LORD while He ministered to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. If you call upon Jesus (the) Christ to saved from your Sin, He will. Believe that He rose from the grave and is alive forevermore. Believe that Jesus loves you and that His life, death, and resurrection has provided you the Covenant you need to be Righteous before God. Believe that His Power can save and will you, and you can leave this petty life of always trying to one-up others. You can be at peace. You can be relieved of the heavy burdens that Sin has piled upon you.

            Reality isn’t about who can win a debate. One day, your body will die and you will be brought before the LORD. Today, God sees all that you are, all that you think, all that you feel, and all that you have done, are doing, and will do. You are and will be Judged by God. You should accept His Judgement and accept His offer of Salvation through Jesus (the) Christ, before it’s too late for you to accept it. Today is the Day of Salvation. Call upon Jesus (the) Christ and He will save you from your Sin.

          • respectourdifferences

            You said that it is “clearly stated” in scripture that it is wrong for a business owner to make a cake for a party celebrating the civil marriage of two people of the same gender. You can’t cite where scripture says that. You lied. Tsk, tsk, self-righteous Christian.

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, I am the Lord your God. You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not walk in their statutes. You shall follow my rules and keep my statutes and walk in them. I am the Lord your God. You shall therefore keep my statutes and my rules; if a person does them, he shall live by them: I am the Lord. … – Leviticus 18: 1-30.

            You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. – Leviticus 18: 22

            You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. – Romans 8:9

            Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! – Isaiah 5:20

            You have wearied the Lord with your words. But you say, “How have we wearied him?” By saying, “Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the Lord, and he delights in them.” Or by asking, “Where is the God of justice?” Malachi 2:17
            “Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world – the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life – is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.” – 1John 2: 15-17, NKJV.

          • Cosmic Mastermind

            Another Bible wizard. You’re not helping.

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            Well, as I recall, I wasn’t responding to you either, now was I. The person who stated: “You said that it is “clearly stated” in scripture that it is wrong for a business owner to make a cake for a party celebrating the civil marriage of two people of the same gender. You can’t cite where scripture says that. You lied. Tsk, tsk.” That was who I was citing scripture to, not you. Moreover, I don’t live to please man or woman; I live to please the Lord. So your comments and opinions of me or my words mean absolutely nothing to me. You cannot incite me with your petty thoughts or opinions. So please go discuss your topic with another, as this conversation does not include you.

          • Ransom Davidson

            Wizardry/witchcraft is not approved of in the Bible. It is of the devil.

          • Peter Leh

            “I hope you realize your response is a canned one. Most surely you do,
            since you keep making the same one over and over. You keep going in
            circles, and I’m standing there watching you chase your tail.”

            is this not the same thing as your cut and paste latin responses
            ?

          • Peter Leh

            “You don’t want to know the Truth, so citing Scripture isn’t going to convince you.”

            I dunno, i see in scriptures you are to” “Always be prepared to give an
            answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you
            have.”

            “But do this with gentleness and respect” (uh oh)

            and that: ” the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged
            sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and
            marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart”

            so withholding from another might kin to Onan spilling his seed on the ground..

            But dont worry FoJC, the HS is better than you and can take care of respectourdifferences… even if you do disobey god and are a hypocrite.

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            Must be why Jesus was so kind and gentle when he called the Hypocrites and fools! You’re a follower of satan, not Jesus!

          • Peter Leh

            Who were the hypocrites and fools Jesus called out?

            the preachers like Fojc and the church of the day. 🙂

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            Where is your citing of said scripture, Peter Leh? You have none which renders your entire argument as junk and false preaching! You are a false prophet, a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Get back behind me satan!

          • Peter Leh

            in general i dont lay out many scripture. ask 10 christians about a verse and you can get 13 answers. 🙂

            BUt you can ask sister. dont assume. you know what happens when you assume. 😉

          • FoJC_Forever

            Sneaky. Reply to yourself so you can have a little soap-box tirade.

          • FoJC_Forever

            Not even in the slightest.

          • Blaylock

            pretty funny when it you chasing your tail. just cant win can ya?

          • FoJC_Forever

            Win? Only those who have lost are trying to win. I have no need to try to win. I have already overcome the world through Faith.

        • jc

          God made homosexuals, and is infallible… plus my God tells me to love my neighbor as myself and not to cast stones.. who is it you’re praying to?

          • FoJC_Forever

            No, God did not create homosexuality. It is a deviance from His Will due to Sin being present in mankind.

          • Valri

            It is no such thing. It is a normal variation of human sexuality as science has been telling us for decades.

          • Peter Leh

            i think we all deviate… that is why we need christ.

            however is it is shown homosexuality is immutable… we christians are indeed in trouble with how we have treated our neighbor.

          • Snowflake0446

            Love your “nun” (the letter symbol). 😉

          • Peter Leh

            Thank you!

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            Jesus said, “…go and sin no more” to the woman accused of adultery too; or is that not convenient to your blasphemy. You’re about as much of a follower of Jesus Christ and God Almighty as satan is – false prophet! Get behind me satan!!!

          • Peter Leh

            indeed he did.

            what does god say about false accusations, sister?

          • Jean-Marie Hendricks

            It’s not a false accusation. He said we would know those who pretend to believe and spread false teachings by their fruits. Your fruits here are pretty damning as evidence!

          • Peter Leh

            Is it not?

            i look forward to your “evidence”.

            otherwise you are only assuming. What is the old saying when on ASSUMEs? 😉

          • Blaylock

            LOL!

          • Matilde Tavares

            The FACTUAL & scientific Truth, is that it is not immutabls, for there is NO medical scientific evidence of LGBT genes, & as many attest by their testimony & lifestyle change . I personally know a couple, now with grown children , & have met others , when i attended a seminar of Leanne Payne in UK, several yrs ago (she was USA Episcopalian). No problem living a LGBT, but problem is compromising Truth in name of love. GOD Who is LOVE HIMSELF, still states, if u want to enter kingdom of God, YOU must be born again; this same LOVE/God, does not change His terms of entry, in name of love, or does He? Love & compromuse are not equal. What Love does, as in God kind of love, is say: “get out of the way, & let Me help u get out of that predicament”, regardless of type, ie, sin, sivkness, poverty, dovisl ills efc…,

          • Cosmic Mastermind

            1. Prove it.
            2. Explain gay dogs.

          • bobmarks44

            Total utter BS!!! Homos are self created!!! There is no valid purpose for a man to stick his erect penis up another man’s ass. That is degenerate, perverted, hedonistic and sick, sick, sick!!!!!!!!!!

      • Crystal

        To celebrate a civil marriage that is not honored by God, (and please show me in the Bible where it is clearly stated that it is!) IS the same thing as supporting homosexuality, we cannot do it if we claim to believe in God and His Word!

        • Ambulance Chaser

          So everything that is not explicitly endorsed in the Bible is verboten?

          • Crystal

            It’s not forbidden unless it’s destructive to the soul, (And abortion destroys a soul, that’s why God and Christians hate it!) but, you’re free to make the choice to commit any sin you want, but God loves you enough that He doesn’t want to see you destroy yourself or your soul! When Man is left to decide for himself what is right and wrong, he’ll almost always get it wrong, because it’s in his nature to do what he thinks is right, not what God wants. The natural Man will not seek nor consider God’s will because we are all born in sin, so our nature will always first seek that which pleases us, not God. One good look at the cold-heartedness and all the hatred and anger in this World now is enough to prove the validity of that statement!

          • Matilde Tavares

            Turn the statement this way: what God approves is written in the Bible, & what God disapproves is also in general terms. However it is not the sum total of All that God approves specifically nor the sum total of what He disapproves. Eg
            Bible does not tell me that i cant have sex with my married neighbour John, and i am single, & a lot prettier than his wife…
            But the Bible does tell me that fornication, & adultery are sin, whatever the justification i give it, including the wife doesnt understand me syndrome, she got bit fat after she had 3 kids, she is a failure as a cook….
            Do u get my drift? Sin is sin; their are principles involved & not justifiable ones
            On a human level, i may bake a cake for an adulterer & hypocrytically not bake one for gays.( some folks opinions) What is at stake here, is the right of baker choice to not serve a saint or a sinner , or not. Whether the “sin” is LGBT practice or drunkeness, or perfect wedding in “anointed” church, the owner of business has lost right of decision in a business that is founded & kept by his labour!
            I am not suggesting at this point the merits or demerits of LGBT (though i can never agree with homosexual marriage, since God defined marriage at creation, right from the beginning) , what i am pointing to, is that the right (even to be wrong (?), of bakers to havebthe right to a PERSONAL conviction at all, are being trampled down by the Law of political correctness. I could see thst, if LGBT would be denied its rights , of obtaining a wedding cake, but not at all, there are no doubt thousands of bakers, in USA alone, probably some gay specific suppliers /bakers in USA,& msybe even some among them, who are christians who may not share same PERSONAL conviction. For any govt to penalise anybody & attempt to force someone else’s conviction on anybody, becomes a violation of, in this case, bakers human /legal rights.
            Lets face it, baker is not forcing lesbians to not marry, nor preventing lesbians from getting a cake elsewhere, so lesbians are not deprived of obtaining whatever they want. But there is an attempt from lesbians, via the state to FORCE private business owner, to sell what they dont want to sell. Whether the bakers are right per Bible or not, is immaterial; as owners of their business, which operate from their personal labour, they have right to sell or not sell to anybody they choose to, not to, whether LGBT or not, whether hypocritical or not, whether right or wrong!

          • Blaylock

            thankfully we non discrimination laws and the CRA of 1964 to protect us from people just like you

          • Matilde Tavares

            Could u just state where i attacked you, Blaylock, Or is it that if i dont endorse your behaviour, then i am guilty of attacking u? What kind of logic is this? Protection from what? Has it stopped you buying cake elsewhere, or did they take money & not deliver goods, or stop u having a wedding, or being gay/LGBT? Dont be ridiculous. PC is being exploited to its maximum. I love u enuff to tell u the Truth. I cant decide for u , to walk or not in Truth, but that wont stop me sharing it! If u think me bigotted, yr choice to think whatever u want. I am not charging u, nor going to lay a charge against u, for saying i am a threat (in yr imagination!) . That would be equally ridiculous, or not? That is the thinking u are propagating here, or not? U dont have to share my view, but neither try to stop me having them! Lets grt this VERY straight: WRONG is NEVER going to be right; eg adultery, fornication/immorality ANY type. Only time i could get recourse to law, would be for adultery, in that case get divorce; that does not mean, the guilty party would be forced to return home, sever ties w 3rd party, BY LAW!! Take the parallel & use your God gjven intelligence to think outdide your “one world parameter of self”, perhaps? Stop trying to get world to say & approve of LGBT behaviour as a normal alternative lifestyle: IT IS NOT, even if CNN stated it as norm, or President whoever ssid so…simply face the consequences of your choices! Have a grest day

        • respectourdifferences

          No one asked them to celebrate such an event. They were asked to bake a cake.

      • freedixie

        Here are some scriptures. Look them up for yourself.

        Leviticus 18:21-22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:27,
        Romans 1:26, Genesis 19:1-13, Mark 7:20-23

    • Matilde Tavares

      I call forth a move of Spirit in nation, & repentance 2Chr7:14, & proclaim healing & restoring of nation back to God, & Luke4:18-20 to be released over USA, & Church to arise to God given position & be a Light in the nation

      • Marty Holden

        Baaaahahahahahahahahahaha

      • Marty Holden

        Though Jesus spoke those Words at the synagogue on Nazareth But he was Quoting covenant Between god and Israel. Not the united States. Only Israel is the Bless nation. Not this one..Infact, this one is mentioned not at all.

    • jc

      “clearly stated in Scripture as wrong” HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    • afchief

      Our leaders are evil. We have placed into office men who have yielded to the influence of the Prince of the Power of the Air (satan). They have seized our government and are doing Satan’s bidding. Freedom is disappearing. The Spirit of the Lord brings freedom. The spirit of the Evil One brings bondage. Which spirit is ruling over America today?

      Satan only has one weapon in his arsenal and that is deception. He is known as the “father of lies” and his “children” are trained in the same techniques. The only effective response to deception is truth. Fighting lies with lies will never lead us to the Truth.

      • FoJC_Forever

        I haven’t placed these people into office. Not all of them are evil, but most are just following the same corruption their predecessors followed, including the POTUS. Bush wasn’t didn’t do God’s Will while in office, anymore than Obama is doing God’s Will.

        The “Evil One” doesn’t have a spirit. Satan is a fallen angel.

        America has never been a Christian nation. There is no earthly kingdom or domain which is Christ’s Kingdom. Those who know, love, and follow the Word of God (who is now personified as Jesus (the) Christ) are the People of God. So, demons have always been active here, despite the fallacy taught in schools that America has a history of being a Christians nation.

        Christian nations don’t have law enforcement and a military which defends its right have babies murdered, which is just one among many wicked things which are present in this nation. America is no different in nature than the rest of the world – just more powerful.

        Satan has more than one weapon in his arsenal. Deception is just one of his attributes.

        Judgement is coming.

        • afchief

          0lawless may not be 666 but his is a close 665! The man is evil. Pure evil!!!

          Why Jesus would not vote for Barack Obama

          In February 2004, U.S. Senate candidate Barack Obama’s wife, Michelle, sent a fund-raising letter with the “alarming news” that “right-wing politicians” had passed a law stopping doctors from stabbing half-born babies in the neck with scissors, suctioning out their brains and crushing their skulls.

          Michelle called partial-birth abortion “a legitimate medical procedure,” and wouldn’t supporters please pay $150 to attend a luncheon for her husband, who would fight against “cynical ploy[s]” to stop it?

          But that’s not why Obama’s opponent Alan Keyes said Jesus Christ wouldn’t vote for him.

          Obama recalled Keyes’ statement in a recent USA Today opinion piece but omitted his reasoning. I know his reasoning, because I was there. As a nurse at an Illinois hospital in 1999, I discovered babies were being aborted alive and shelved to die in soiled utility rooms. I discovered infanticide. Legislation was presented on the federal level and in various states called the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. It stated all live-born babies were guaranteed the same constitutional right to equal protection, whether or not they were wanted. BAIPA sailed through the U.S. Senate by unanimous vote. Even Sens. Clinton, Kennedy and Kerry agreed a mother’s right to “choose” stopped at her baby’s delivery. The bill also passed overwhelmingly in the House. NARAL went neutral on it. Abortion enthusiasts publicly agreed that fighting BAIPA would appear extreme. President Bush signed BAIPA into law in 2002.

          But in Illinois, the state version of BAIPA repeatedly failed, thanks in large part to then-state Sen. Barack Obama. It only passed in 2005, after Obama left. I testified in 2001 and 2002 before a committee of which Obama was a member. Obama articulately worried that legislation protecting live aborted babies might infringe on women’s rights or abortionists’ rights. Obama’s clinical discourse, his lack of mercy, shocked me. I was naive back then. Obama voted against the measure, twice. It ultimately failed. In 2003, as chairman of the next Senate committee to which BAIPA was sent, Obama stopped it from even getting a hearing, shelving it to die much like babies were still being shelved to die in Illinois hospitals and abortion clinics.

          (As chair of that same committee, Obama once abruptly ended a hearing early, right before Scott and Janet Willis, the parents of six children killed as a result of Illinois’ drivers licenses for bribes scandal, were to testify in favor of Choose Life license plate legislation. I was there for that one, too. The Willises had traveled three hours. Reporters filled the room. Obama stalled. He later killed the bill when no one was around.) So, the reason Keyes said Jesus Christ wouldn’t vote for Barack Obama was because of Obama’s fanatical support of abortion to the point of condoning infanticide. I have framed on my wall a Chicago Sun-Times cartoon published during the campaign. Obama is holding a sign with “LIVE BIRTH ABORTION” on it. God is reaching down from heaven to a baby in front of Obama, and the baby is reaching up to God. Obama is yelling at God, “You keep out of this!”

          In his USA Today opinion piece, Obama admitted being “nagged” by the Jesus-wouldn’t-vote-for-him statement, but only because he wished he’d given a different comeback. Obama insinuated opposition to abortion is based only on religion, lecturing pro-lifers like me to “explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.” I don’t recall mentioning religion when I testified against live-birth abortion. I only recall describing a live aborted baby I held in a hospital soiled utility room until he died, and a live aborted baby who was accidentally thrown into the trash. Neither do I recall religion being brought into the partial-birth abortion ban debate. I recall comparisons made to U.S. laws ensuring animals being killed are treated humanely. I recall testimony that late-term babies feel excruciating pain while being aborted. Obama stated pro-life proposals must be “amenable to reason.” OK, Sen. Obama, let’s reason. Explain why you support abortion for whatever rationale, at whatever gestation, by whatever means. Explain why you support infanticide, if banning it might interfere with abortion. Then, since you brought it up, explain how, despite all that, you think Jesus should vote for you, either now or in the hereafter, particularly given His statement, “It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around the neck than to face the punishment in store for harming one of these little ones.”

          • FoJC_Forever

            I didn’t and wouldn’t vote for Obama.

    • Blaylock

      nobody asked for their participation just a cake

    • Tmaximus

      So when will Christians deny marriage to people who pray in public or to pork & shellfish eating people ….since those are sins, too? Psst! If you ever read the bible, you’d know Christians are to submit and obey the laws of the land…not pick a choose which ones based on bigotry.

      • FoJC_Forever

        I do read the Bible and the Scriptures do not proclaim that Christians are to obey all laws, just the ones which are written for the punishment of those who do evil and the reward of those who do good. Any law which demands Christians do something contrary to God’s Will is not to be obeyed. This is Truth and the Will of God.

        I’m not denying Marriage to homosexuals who want this Union to occur between those of the same gender. God denies it. God created Marriage, and it is only for one man and one woman who commit to each other for the entirety of their natural life.

        Follow Jesus, find Salvation.

  • The Skeptical Chymist

    Don’t worry about the Kleins. They’ve already raised over $355,000 on their continuetogive website, so they’ll make out with a nice profit from this.

  • Shaun D.

    People…….get ready…..

    Luke 21:12-20

    12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake.

    21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

    21:14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

    21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

    21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

    21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake.

    21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

    21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

    21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

  • Black-Beard Bob Osborn

    his article is bullshit this Christian couple didn’t get sued for refusing to make a cake yes its what stated it but not why they got sued. these jerks got sued because they were giving out the lesbian couple’s address and phone number, encouraging people to harass the lesbian couple and in doing so risked their safety and the safety of this lesbian couple’s kids

  • Dave_L

    “And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.” (Matthew 5:40–41)

    • Snowflake0446

      Thank you for the awesome reminder. Perhaps paying double or something and forcing it on the Court/Lesbians would certain follow through with Jesus’ recommendation. This is an excellent response.

  • bowie1

    How unfortunate. In the past it would have been the lesbians who would have charged with soliciting an illegal transaction. How times have changed in both our countries.

    • respectourdifferences

      “who would have charged with soliciting an illegal transaction.”

      What “illegal transaction” and under what statute would they have been charged?

      • PittsburghGal53

        sexual perverion

        • respectourdifferences

          Ordering a cake is sexual perversion?

        • Blaylock

          moron

          • PittsburghGal53

            Your opinion means nothing to me. I stand on God’s side, and He has the final word.

    • Peter Leh

      whoa, bowie… that doe snot sound like you. Sounds like a klan leader in mississippi

      • bowie1

        There was a time in Toronto, Canada when the police would raid a bathhouse frequented by gays. It was treated more like indecent exposure which can still get a charge from the cops, although it may include someone who relieves themselves in public.

        • Peter Leh

          “There was a time in Toronto, Canada when the police would raid a bathhouse frequented by gays.”

          as in Texas. thank god we dont violate our citizens rights like that anymore.

  • Ransom Davidson

    Unbelievable. And all of this just because these folks do not want to participate in ANY way with a same sex union which is their right. Just because you own a business does not mean you should have to take part in supporting or promoting things that you cannot condone. As for those that like to bring up mixed marriage and those that would deny folks of different colors to marry; there is no Biblical basis for that view. Moses married an Ethiopian woman and when Aaron and Miriam spoke against it in a racist manner, the Lord cursed Marian with leprosy to show his disapproval of their views. What the Lord disapproved of with regards to the Israelite’s and marriage in general, was marrying those that worship idols or that were outright pagan in their beliefs. It had nothing to do with the color of one’s skin but everything to do with the possibility of one falling into the sin of idolatry once they were joined together with those that practice such things. And now these Christian folks (and others), are being told they must join together with those that ask for support of their same sex unions by way of endorsement of one kind or another. But for people of faith and those that are true Christians, they cannot do such things. There is absolutely no way that Jesus Himself would have supported a same sex union in ANY way whatsoever. And that’s a fact. And His followers are instructed to follow His example, not the immoral laws made by mere sinful humans.

    • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

      Thank you for bringing up Moses and his wife.I will remember that in times I need to use it when people bring up race.Thank you.

      • Matthew T. Mason

        Or mention Mason’s Second Law: In any debate over homosexuality, sexual behavior will inevitably be compared to skin color.

        It’s an invalid comparison and intellectual laziness.

        • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

          I agree.

      • Ransom Davidson

        You’re welcome and God bless you to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ more and more every day. (2 Peter 3:18)

    • SFBruce

      “As for those that like to bring up mixed marriage and those that would deny folks of different colors to marry; there is no Biblical basis for that view.”

      Not everyone agrees with that. Fortunately, I don’t know anyone who publicly makes the claim that a Biblical basis exists, but that wasn’t always the case. Genesis 28:1 and Leviticus 19:19 among many others were used to justify both racial segregation and bans on interracial marriage. In the 1960’s Mildred and Richard Loving, an interracial married couple, were charged with breaking Virginia’s law banning such marriages. The judge included these words in his decision, “Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.”

      Just as the false, negative stereotypes related to race have been rejected, the same thing is happening today for gay people.

      • PittsburghGal53

        Skin color is an inherent quality from birth, unchangable. LGBT is a behavior which can change over the course of some people’s lives.

        • Marty Holden

          or means they give up being shamed and live there life as they were born into.

          • PittsburghGal53

            Marty- I will agree to disagree with you. God makes no mistakes, and to reject His gender assignment and not live as that gender is a spiritually fatal error. This is not a matter of pleasing the carnal, but of preserving the eternal soul in God’s will.

        • SFBruce

          If you think chosen behavior shouldn’t be a protected category, then religion shouldn’t be a protected category, since it’s most definitely chosen. Furthermore, the current scientific consensus is that sexual orientation isn’t chosen, and while there is some fluidity with some individuals, that fluidity isn’t governed by choice.

          • PittsburghGal53

            STBruce- last time I checked, God outranked science and the SCOTUS.

          • Blaylock

            not even close

          • PittsburghGal53

            Right you are, Bucky. God created both! 🙂

        • respectourdifferences

          “Skin color is an inherent quality from birth, unchangable. LGBT is a behavior which can change over the course of some people’s lives.”

          How is that relevant?

          • PittsburghGal53

            Only relevant if the people driven by behavior are attempting to claim protected status as a class with genetic traits. Would that be true of the LGBT crowd?

          • PittsburghGal53

            If you are unable to discern between the two, then nothing anyone says will be accepted by you.

        • Blaylock

          your uneducated opinion only

      • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

        Don’t forget this one.
        Moses, married an Ethiopian Woman and when Aron and Mariam spoke against it in a racist manner.
        God cursed Marian with Leprosy to show His disapproval of their views. Later God healed her. There were other interracial marriages God Blessed in the Old Test.
        I n the genealogy of Christ two Gentile Women were accepted by God. One was Rehab and the other was Ruth. God Did not Reject all interracial Marriages.”Just Saying”

        • SFBruce

          You may have misunderstood my point. I’m not arguing that interracial marriage is wrong; in fact, I think it was wrong to prohibit those unions in the first place. Ransom Davidson had made the claim that there is no Biblical prohibition against such unions. I was simply pointing out that during the 1960’s and before that time, there were many who believed that such Bibilcal prohibitions did exist. I offered two examples of which there are many more.

      • Ransom Davidson

        I gave the example of Moses and the Ethiopian woman, something God Himself had no problem with. So obviously, the judge in your example is misinterpreting scripture and the actions of God down through history just as many others have.

        • respectourdifferences

          How is it that you feel empowered to tell others that their interpretation of scripture is wrong, and yours is right?

          According to the Bible, God gave David multiple wives. Is polygamy therefore OK with God?

          • Ransom Davidson

            It was never God’s intention for man to have more than one wife or Adam would have been given more than Eve. However, God made allowances and exceptions on occasion due to mankind’s weaknesses and that is His right to do so since He is the ultimate authority and judge in all affairs regarding mankind and our need of redemption and salvation among other things.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      “And all of this just because these folks do not want to participate in ANY way with a same sex union which is their right.”

      It’s obviously not their right, or they wouldn’t have been found guilty of discrimination for doing it.

      • Marty Holden

        Boom.

      • Ransom Davidson

        If you and others want to support unjust and immoral man-made laws then so be it. Christians on the other hand, answer to a higher authority and are not required to obey any immoral so-called laws concocted by mere sinful humans. And BTW, the Supreme Courts’s decision regarding so-called marriage equality was and is totally unconstitutional to begin with. One day soon enough though, you and everyone else will have to answer to the Supreme Judge (Jesus the Christ), with regards to every word, thought and deed. So get ready now, to tell Jesus what you just told me. Unless of course you somehow change your mind/views by the grace of God before it’s too late.

        • respectourdifferences

          “and are not required to obey any immoral so-called laws concocted by mere sinful humans.”

          No one is “required” to obey the law. They are free to disobey the law, and face the consequences of their actions.

          “And BTW, the Supreme Courts’s decision regarding so-called marriage equality was and is totally unconstitutional to begin with.”

          How was it “unconstitutional”?

          • PittsburghGal53

            Our constitution was written by men who believed in God and were not poking each other’s butts. I am positive that in their wildest dreams, they would never have dreamed that a perverse group of people would usurp it and twist the words to suit their own agenda.

          • Marty Holden

            Sorry, but the constitutions specifically states there is to BE no religion in Government. You point is useless.

          • PittsburghGal53

            Do your homework, Marty…you are incorrect. No cigar for you!

          • Marty Holden

            You also don’t know if they were poking each other’s butts or not.. Homosexuality was in a closet then and to say there was or was not homosexual activity going on is a useless gesture at best, and deliberate intellectual dishonesty at worse.

          • PittsburghGal53

            Homosexuality is and was then considered a grave sin for any person who is or was a Christian or Deist, equated with Satan worship, so I seriously doubt that statesmen such as America’s Founding Fathers were butt poking…they were much more well versed in Judaeo-Christianity and understanding of Holy Scripture than most Americans are today. Those who believe as the forefathers did, view homosexuality in the same way…God is unchanging, His Word is unchanging, and followers are unchanging.

          • Ransom Davidson

            All new laws are supposed to be passed by approval in and through both houses of congress first.

        • Blaylock

          don’t obey . pay the price. anti discrimination laws trump your opinion every time. as far as the SCOTUS ruling…get over it. legal in all 50 and not going away.

          • Ransom Davidson

            Don’t worry, I won’t obey man-made immoral laws. God’s law trumps them every time and for eternity. As for man-made unjust laws, they will cease to exist one day soon enough and forever. And for that I am eternally grateful.

    • respectourdifferences

      “And all of this just because these folks do not want to participate in ANY way with a same sex union which is their right.”

      No. All of this because they chose to violate the laws of Oregon. They have no “right” to operate their business in violation of the law.

      “Just because you own a business does not mean you should have to take part in supporting or promoting things that you cannot condone.”

      They don’t have to. They are free to not offer wedding cakes as one of the services of their business.

      “As for those that like to bring up mixed marriage and those that would deny folks of different colors to marry; there is no Biblical basis for that view.”

      While that is your interpretation, others disagree. The trial judge in Loving v Virginia, Leon M. Bazile wrote:

      “Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.”

      How is it that you are able to state with certainty that your interpretation is correct and those who disagree with you are incorrect?

      “And now these Christian folks (and others), are being told they must join together with those that ask for support of their same sex unions by way of endorsement of one kind or another.”

      There is no “must”. People are free to choose whether or not to open a business, and they are free to choose what products they will and will not offer. How is baking a cake for a party an “endorsement”? If they bake a cake for a wedding where either of the couple has been divorced for reasons other than adultery, are they “endorsing” divorce? If they bake a cake for a baby shower for an unwed mother, are they “endorsing” child birth outside of marriage? If they bake a cake for an engagement party for a couple who are having sexual relations, are they “endorsing” sexual relations outside of marriage? If they bake a cake for a wedding reception of two Muslims, are they “endorsing” Islam?

      • Ransom Davidson

        The issue was the message on the cake that supports and promotes homosexual unions, not the cake its self. And I doubt true Christians (or anyone in their right mind for that matter), would make a cake for Muslims where they want to have a message that says something like, “Allahu Akbar! Kill the infidels and homosexuals and have your cake too”

    • Peter Leh

      “And all of this just because these folks do not want to participate in ANY way with a same sex union which is their right.”

      it is their right. However they negated that right when “wedding cake” was left on the menu. Ransom, when something is on the menu guess who gets to order it?

      this is all on the kleins… no one else.

      • Ransom Davidson

        They only make traditional wedding cakes according to their beliefs, not non-traditional ones. Period.

    • Marty Holden

      wanna bet.

    • Blaylock

      nobody is asking for their support…just a cake

      • Ransom Davidson

        When they want a message on the cake that supports homosexual unions, they are asking for your support. When they want a homosexual union event catered to, they are asking for your support. You are either dishonest or you don’t have all of the facts. Now which is it?

  • WorldGoneCrazy

    “There is no Gaystapo. Now everyone stop asking so many questions!” 300 examples of homofascism:

    http://barbwire .com/2014/07/07/300-examples-read-understand-meant-term-homofascism/

    It is nice to see that the many Gaystapo outlets were forced to apologize for their lies about the reasons for the Klein’s penalties. Now, it should be noted that, on atheism, there really are no grounds for NOT lying, for NOT assigning ridiculously high penalties for refusal to bake a gay cake, for NOT issuing death threats to pizzerias and anyone else who disagrees with them about gay “marriage,” for NOT blowing away Christians at a community college. On atheism, we are just evolved animals, and it is really the law of the jungle out here – anything goes on that worldview. If atheism is true, then the universe is headed for a slow dark cold death, and no one will be around to know if any of us behaved more like Stalin or more like Ghandi. So, objective moral values and duties simply do not exist if there is no God. And, scholarly atheists agree with me here:

    “In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, or any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference… DNA neither knows nor cares. DNA just is. And we dance to its music.” (Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life (1995))

    “Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear — and these are basically Darwin’s views. There are no gods, no purposes, and no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end of me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life, and no free will for humans, either.” A-theist William Provine

    “The position of the modern evolutionist is that humans have an awareness of morality because such an awareness of biological worth. Morality is a biological adaptation no less than are hands and feet and teeth. Considered as a rationally justifiable set of claims about an objective something, ethics is illusory. I appreciate when someone says, ‘Love thy neighbor as thyself,’ they think they are referring above and beyond themselves. Nevertheless, such reference is truly without foundation. Morality is just an aid to survival and reproduction, . . . and any deeper meaning is illusory.” (Michael Ruse, “Evolutionary Theory and Christian Ethics,” in The Darwinian
    Paradigm (London: Routledge, 1989), pp. 262-269).

    “Is there a God? No.
    What is the nature of reality? What physics says it is.
    What is the purpose of the universe? There is none.
    What is the meaning of life? Ditto.
    Why am I here? Just dumb luck.
    Is there a soul? Are you kidding?
    Is there free will? Not a chance!
    What is the difference between right/wrong,
    good/bad? There is no moral difference between them… So much for the meaning of history, and everything else we care about… you will have to be comfortable with a certain amount of nihilism . . . . And just in case there’s always Prozac.” — Alex P. Rosenberg

    “no purpose, no evil and no good,” “no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life,” “ethics is illusory” “no right/wrong, good/bad.”

    There you have it – that is the world of the atheist. He or she has to steal the existence of objective moral values and duties from the theist in order to assert objective moral claims. She is continuously bouncing back and forth from her world (“There is no God” to the world of the theist (I am a ‘good’ person, and your God is a ‘moral’ monster!”). On the one hand, she denies the existence of objective morality, so that she does not feel guilty when she knocks off the human being in her womb because she cannot fit into her prom dress, then on the other hand, she talks about how (objectively) ‘evil’ Christians and our God are.

    Atheism is the ultimate in cognitive dissonance and is completely unlivable. I tried it for 42 years and it just does not work. One cannot live the atheist life in any sort of intellectually honest or consistent manner. Merely the fact that atheists come to this site and post their thoughts is proof that God exists – for, if not, they would not be making an objective moral claim that it is morally “right” that the Klein’s be fined this amount. The behavior of the atheist refutes his worldview.

    • Valri

      The barbwire link which you’ve posted so many times is what we in the business called a PRATT (Previously Refuted A Thousand Times).

      If you’re going to go for repetition as a way of reinforcing a lie, don’t be surprised when you are called on it.

      • Matthew T. Mason

        Make it a thousand and one and refute them. All of them. With citations. Or shut your lying mouth.

        • Valri

          I’ve already done that on this subject far too many times, and if you missed it the first dozen, then you can cram it. And quit pretending to be a Christian. Hate isn’t a family value.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Uh-huh. Why don’t I believe you?

          • Valri

            Couldn’t care less. Not my problem.

          • PittsburghGal53

            Troll…

          • PittsburghGal53

            Valri is a troll…

          • Valri

            PittsburghGal53’s definition of a troll: Someone who corrects the errors, hate, bigotry, hypocrisy, etc., in others.

      • Snowflake0446

        I’d be happy with just links to a dozen or so PRATT. Just provide the links. I’ll read them and decide for myself. For now though, logically speaking, WorldGoneCrazy’s statement is logically, morally sound.

        • Valri

          I’ve done this too many times to count.

          As I stated, this is not the first time W.G. Crazy has posted this link. A conservative guess is that he’s posted it at LEAST 15 times before.

          I’m curious why you’d think that there is anything “logically, morally sound” about a link to a BLOG. It’s not like he’s linking to a scientific document.

          But here. Barbwire’s author Matt Barber is kind of infamous in his own right. And when I said right, I mean ULTRA-right:

          http://www.rightwingwatch. org/category/people/matt-barber

          • Matthew T. Mason

            In short, you can’t put your money where your mouth is because you’re absolutely full of crap.

            Go away.

          • Valri

            Which is why I posted a link to information on officially-recognized hate group member Matt Barber, who runs Barbwire. If you can’t handle the truth, you shouldn’t be here, and your Christianity is a sham.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            *Valri* is like a reoccurring nightmare. Just won’t go away,Just keeps coming back.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Yeah! Where the flip are the mods? I can think of four (including Valri) right from the top of my head that shouldn’t have posting privileges here, and yet they remain.

            Maybe these sleeping mods should step aside and let someone who knows what they are doing take over.

            There should be zero tolerance for anti-Christian bigotry, especially after what happened in Oregon.

            WAKE UP!!

          • Valri

            They are here. They should be deleting some of your hateful name calling comments anytime, at least if there’s any justice.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Maybe the Mods don’t care anymore. I feel they need to stop these people who hate Christians so much.Val has been banned with other accounts. Val just makes new ones. Maybe they are tired of banning HIM/HER.

          • Valri

            Those are some very broad accusations. I don’t supposed you can back them up with facts?

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            I don’t have too.
            Shalom <

          • Valri

            Of course not. That would mean having to be truthful which is difficult for you.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            The day will come you will see just who thr true liar is.
            Shalom <

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            They got him, Matthew – somewhat. 🙂

          • Valri

            It’s “she” – In the real world, Valri is a female name. And no, they didn’t “get” me.

          • Valri

            Matthew’s the one that’s been “got”. Have you noticed?

          • Valri

            Oh my GOSH, Matthew, some of YOUR comments are being deleted too! Or have you noticed?

          • Valri

            Thank you, that means SO much coming from you. The hate dribbles out of you like a leaky faucet.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            It is true. It is our hate that is the night mare.
            Shalom <

          • Snowflake0446

            You’re statement as to the number of times does not add the amount of information. I was simply requesting was your version of W.G. Crazy statement. It may be wise, since you keep repeating such information, that you copy/paste it to a local file.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “W.G. Crazy” – love it! 🙂

          • Snowflake0446

            Our previous “Guest” started it. but I thought it wasn’t out of line and certainly shortened your moniker. 🙂

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Tell “Guest” that he must address me as “Dr. Crazy,” but since you are a friendly, you can just call me “W.G.” or “World.” 🙂

          • Snowflake0446

            LOL. If you hold a Ph.D or some other Doctorate, I would be more than happy to uphold that honor. Then, with your permission, I would call you Dr. World or Dr. W.G. 🙂 Whatever you decide is fine with me.

            From what little you’ve mentioned, you’ve been through a lot. I’ve always known your discussions to be cogent and logical and come from a place of both experience and knowledge.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Thanks – that is a high compliment coming from you. My degrees are 3 in engineering (through the PhD) and one masters in mathematics. Just call me “WGC” if that is kewl. Remind me of your background again?

          • Snowflake0446

            Briefly as possible, which is nearly impossible for me. 🙂 BA in Pre-seminary, Master’s Engineering Science (major Computer Science). 30 years of work in and around the infamous NSA. Wishing my life’s story had a better “middle”, but as a business owner, subcontractor under SAIC at the time, I was sexually harassed. Now most men would have simply ate it up. I did not. Being sensitive and a Christ-follower since 6, it became the detonator to the explosives I had packed from childhood by stuffing my emotions. The “implosion” was so great, I attempted to take my life. After my implosion, I continued to investigate what happened to me and why. Turns out part of the explosives I stored within myself were fear and self-loathing because of physical abuse by my Dad when I was a baby (who happened to be a Deacon/head-deacon, found of a college and institute, builder of additions on to the house, honorary Litt.D and who came from Iraq.) and emotional abuse, manipulation later on even after I was married. Look up Zomaya S. Solomon on Google. He even wrote a book. It’s not that he was mean. He just needed control and I suffered as a result of that control, which I allowed because the physical abuse when I was a baby left me fearful and worthless. So I was an easy mark.

            Interestingly though, throughout my career and life, I had been hurt so much that I did good to those around me, helping others, loving them where they were. I’m better at that now since my hospitalization. But even before that, I was so caring and implemented God’s Word in my life so such an extent, people would “elect” me as their leader because they knew I would serve them, love them, care for them.

            However, now I’m jobless, retirement all used up in an attempt to avoid going on Federal, State assistance, but that didn’t last long. Applied for Soc. Sec. Disability, but denied, then appealed and denied, now trying to see a Judge. I can’t see my counselor anymore because I can’t afford it. No insurance thanks to Obamacare…it cost too much…imagine that .

            Spiritually, I’ve gone to church most of my life, Baptist and then Fundamentalist because according to my Dad it would give me my sorely needed backbone. Attended Bob Jones University…but thanks to my wonderful brother, got expelled before my last year. Yep…my brother learned to manipulate me just like my Dad.

            Why so much information? I just don’t care anymore who knows what. Many people say that suffering lasts only a season, but I feel like my season has lasted my entire life from one negative to another. The only way I know that God exists and is still with me is not because of anything He’s done, but because of what I do. I love. I give. People see me and know that I am “for” them. But I’m so tired, depressed. Somedays I get it that God has allowed all this for a reason and I say “Bring it!, God”. Other days I’m like, God take me home. I really don’t want to be here anymore and still other days, I have plans to end my life here on this Earth.

            Nevertheless, somehow I was gifted with the ability to think through things and think logically. Not sure how I acquired that ability. You may recall some of my earlier posts on Disqus. Due to my depression, you may once again find that I will delete my account and withdrawal…one of the “side-effects” of depression.

            Anyway, that’s me in a nutshell. I don’t share this so that you will provide a response-in-kind. I just share because I want to.

            Thanks for listening, WGC. 🙂

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Wow – what an incredible heart-filled story! Thank you for opening up and sharing with me. God bless you moving forward. My sibling and one parent suffer from bipolar and my other parent from depression, so I can really feel for you on this. I don’t know what it is like, but what they tell me is that it is Hell on earth. I kept saying “I get down too sometimes,” and my brother said that when he hits his depressive cycle, he cannot get out of bed for two weeks, except for the obvious things that MUST be done. So, I just cannot imagine – I am just so sorry.

            I pray that God lifts you up through this, Snowflake – somehow – because it seems obvious to me that He does have an objective purpose for you in using your logic and social skills. I know that a lot of depressive / bipolar people tend to be geniuses, and you would seem to fit that book. (My brother dropped out of more universities than you can count, without a piece of paper – yet he is still the most brilliant one in the family – by far.)

            If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know. I’m praying for you. God bless!

          • Snowflake0446

            For me, it hasn’t been bad in that way. But there were times when I only did what I was told to do by my wife…a walking zombie, if you will.

            From the scriptures and other places I have a sense of hell and yes, depression is similar to hell. There is a darkness, an aloneness that can only be comprehended by those who have gone through it. My Doctor also says I have Bipolar II.

            You’ve done the most amazing thing already…simple, plain understanding. Thank you for that!!! Thank you for your prayers as well.

            I look forward to interacting more on Disqus with you. God bless you and your family as well.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            I think that my wife would like me to just go on her list too. Frankly, I would like to just follow her list more. 🙂 Your wife sounds like she understands your issues well, and sometimes that you just need marching orders? But, that is apparently not easy when you are going through so much. My brother tells me it is really debilitating and difficult to function for long periods of time.

            I wish I could do more – I just cannot imagine what it is like to walk in your shoes or the members of my family. My heart goes out to you. I look forward to interacting with you too – your comments are most insightful – you have a rare gift there. God bless!

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Thanks, Snowflake!

          • Snowflake0446

            You’re welcome! But on a serious note, I was hoping he’d give me his list like you provided yours. But he didn’t despite his repetition of his response and to boot he “folded”. 🙂

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Valri is an absurdist – I have engaged him patiently in the past. He believes that if he SAYS something has been refuted, that means it HAS been refuted. It’s easier that way, as it requires no effort on his part to put in the hard work and provide evidence, logic, and philosophical thought. I gave him secular reasons above for my position and 4 very relevant quotes from HIS side, and all he can come back with is “PRATT.”

          • Valri

            WGC, all that needs to be done to prove you’re full of fertilizer is to Google your name and your oft-repeated links, quotes, and absurdities. It shouldn’t surprise you that they link to other sites besides this one where you’re considered as incomprehensible there are you are here. Maybe lay off the CTRL-V for a while and type actual knowledge, and not crap gleaned from people like Matt Barber and you’d be taken more seriously.

          • Snowflake0446

            Again, I’m asking for your side of the argument…a link, a file, a webpage. If you can’t produce it, then how have you refuted anything? Downplaying someone else’s argument doesn’t help your side either. I’m looking for a response…cogent and logical. Absent that, then W.G.Crazy is the only side I see in this discussion.

          • Valri

            How many times do I have to tell you that I’m tired of doing that over and over? If you don’t believe that I have, I don’t care.

          • Snowflake0446

            As you wish.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Notice that he folded again. It’s almost as if he does NOT have any evidence or something. 🙂

          • Valri

            I think bearing false witness is a sin in your big book there, Crazy. You know as well as I do that you’ve been confronted MANY times about your ridiculous hateful Barbwire post. Folding is not the same thing as refusing to fall for your game playing.

          • Valri

            Also, for the last time, I’m a woman. Valri. Variant of “Valerie”.

          • Valri

            I told you before, I’m tired of repeating myself. You can do your own Googling to see why Matt Barber, the hate speech enthusiast, is off base.

          • Valri

            300 stories, all unverified, slanted, one-sided pieces of journalistic garbage from primarily Christian websites. Tell me why ANYONE would give credence to that.

          • Snowflake0446

            Again, Valri, you’re making a statement that is ambiguous at best. What if I responded “400 stories, all unverified, slanted, one-sided pieces of journalistic garbage from primarily atheistic websites” Would that tell you anything? It doesn’t tell me anything.

            I’m here to discuss. That requires conversation. But making statements like: Evolutionists are a tyrannical sect (get it…tyrannical as in tyrannosaurus) really does nothing to dissuade you from believing in evolution. It’s just an opinion. You’re free to state whatever opinion you wish. But it’s not a conversation.

          • Valri

            That’s the point Snowflake I wouldn’t POST a link to an atheist website if I wanted people to read facts. I’d point to a scientific one. Barbwire’s links are not trustworthy.

          • Valri

            It’s SHE, not he. I tired of posting my refutations over and over. Just because Mr. Crazy is so fond of posting this particular Barbwire link does not mean that I should have to post the same refutation over and over. It’s a Matt Barber (read: hate speech proponent) site, all the stories link to CHRISTIAN news sites and are therefore extremely one-sided and slanted, and to take the time to refute 300 stories is unrealistic of you.

          • Snowflake0446

            So I took a small amount of time and looked through Matt Barber’s stuff. Seems to be some news with lots of opinion. Nothing abnormal. I didn’t see any hate-speech or proponents, thereof. Like CNN or FoxNews, he claims to provide News with opinion. Of course, I only did a brief perusal.

            Now if I wasn’t a Conservative, it might bother me too. I can’t even go Washington Post web site because it “bothers” me, especially with the recently yellow journalized story about the reporter who asked Rep. Pelosi whether an unborn baby is human. They practically had to rewrite the story because it wasn’t news…it was opinion when it was placed in the “News” section. If you’re going to tell the story of what actually happened, then using hyperbole is out of the question. It would be like someone calling the Teaparty group a bunch of terrorists. Hyperbole at its best…unless of course, you know of some Teaparty group that has rocket launchers or wear bomb vests and perform attacks on dates like 9/11, then it’s definitely hyperbole.

            If I were you, I wouldn’t go to that site to get my news. If you see WGC linking something to the Barbwire site go to it, don’t go to it, it’s up to you.

            Quote from the movie “The American President”: “America isn’t easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, ’cause it’s gonna put up a fight. It’s gonna say “You want free speech? Let’s see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who’s standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.”

      • http://youtube.com/Krazie316 André Berry

        …while offering absolutely no citation to back your claims. Fail…

      • PittsburghGal53

        “In the business”. Have you just admitted that you are an LGBT activist troll?

        • Valri

          No, I just refuse to hate people because of their orientation, which they neither chose nor have any control over.

    • Jean Adams

      1 Corinthians 1:18 for the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Amen, Jean!

    • Blaylock

      LOL! We come here for the pure entertainment of watching you all wallow in your own pity over gays being able to marry. Too Funny!

  • Dan Newberry

    We are to be “wise as serpents, gentle as doves”… we ought not create situations where we end up being “had” by the devil. Here’s how to handle these situations in the future: When the militant gays come and ask “Will you bake us a wedding cake?” Answer, “Yes, we will bake you a cake, because Jesus Christ would also bake you a cake. He loves you. He fed the 5000, and none among them were without sin. He loves all of mankind. We will make you this cake. But you do have a right to know that we are Christians, and we are filling your order out of love for you, not because we agree with your decision to ‘marry’ one another. And one last thing. We will be donating the profits we receive from this cake to a gay recovery ministry. Now how many tiers and what color of icing?”

    • Peter Leh

      that is one way of doing it.

  • Valri

    The agony they could have saved themselves if they’d done the kind, humanitarian, Christ-like thing and treated the lesbian couple like human beings…so sad the things people do in the name of Christianity.

    • Jean Adams

      Betraying God is not an option. Obey and have everlasting life in God’s perfect world. Go against God and have eternal life burning in hell. The Christians would rather save their eternal futures.

      • Valri

        Standing firm against hate and bigotry is what any God worth worshiping would have us do. I should think the flames of hell are for the people who cause unnecessary pain and suffering to others, as the Kleins did.

        • PittsburghGal53

          Your opinion of God, not truth. Clearly, you have no clue of who God is at all.

        • http://youtube.com/Krazie316 André Berry

          Your definitions of hate and bigotry are skewed and void of logic and reason. they are, however, loaded with propaganda talking points.

          Bigotry requires intolerance. Tolerance and acceptance are NOT one in the same. You can tolerate something and not accept it, which is what we do daily. If you want to see real intolerance, and therefore bigotry, go to the middle east and see what they do to Christians and homosexuals.

          Hate is to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest:

          We dont hate anyone nor do we have hostility towards anyone.

    • Matthew T. Mason

      Christianity doesn’t teach willful disobedience to God and His word.

      Back to start.

      • Valri

        Well, you’re lying your face off on this forum, isn’t there something in there about bearing false witness? Probably you should consider that. You fail.

        • Matthew T. Mason

          Where and how am I lying?

        • PittsburghGal53

          You have no clue of who God is, or you willfully have chosen to reject Him and His precepts. You accuse each person who has told you the truth in this forum. Your mind, heart, and very soul are twisted and demented from your wickedness.

    • http://youtube.com/Krazie316 André Berry

      You must not know Christ lol…

      • Matthew T. Mason

        She doesn’t know anything. Facts are absolutely alien to her.

        • PittsburghGal53

          She or he…

  • David

    This wasn’t just about the refusal of the Klein’s to bake a cake. If that had been all, then it was unlikely that any complaint would have been filed, regardless that the Kleins were breaking the law. Mr. Klein said some very hateful things to one of the women and her mother. This is why they filed the discrimination complaint. After the complaint was filed, the Klein’s published the names and contact information of the Lesbian couple which led to them being harassed and receiving death threats. They had to shut off all forms of communication and move. These were the reasons the Klein’s were found guilty and had a settlement levied against them.

    Their religious convictions might have been why they did not bake the cake but it was not Christian ideals that led them to be hateful and spread their bigotry to others.

    Feel free to attack me personally, I am a lawyer and a deacon at my church. I understand both the law of man and the law of God. The Kleins broke both. They do not deserve your support.

    • Matthew T. Mason

      Yawn. Don’t know the facts, not a Christian if you support homosexuality and SSM.

      NEXT!

      • Valri

        I suppose you’re also OK with the Kleins doxxing the lesbian couple on their Facebook page. Real classy.

        • Matthew T. Mason

          You didn’t read the article either, did you? Shocked.

          • Valri

            You obviously don’t know the facts of this case at all.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            You are a complete moron.

            Goodbye.

          • Valri

            That’s all you’ve got? Idiotic insults? Not going to refute this vicious pack of truth? They DOXXED the lesbians on their Facebok site. FACT.

          • Matthew T. Mason

            You’re a moron, an anti-Christian bigot, and a liar. Those are the only facts to come out concerning you and the subject.

          • Valri

            1) I haven’t lied
            2) I’m not anti-Christian, I’m anti-hate.
            3) I’m not a moron.

            The bakers doxxed the lesbian couple. It’s a fact. Even the story printed here doesn’t deny it, just says it’s not the reason they were fined (which is true).

          • Matthew T. Mason

            Everything I’ve said is true.

          • Valri

            That’s a laugh.

    • John_33

      Actually that’s not true. The only thing that Mr. Klein did was quote a Bible verse (Leviticus 18:22) when one of the plaintiffs said that her religious views had changed. There’s nothing hateful or bigoted about that. Also, you are mistaken that the Kleins were found guilty for releasing contact information. Although the Agency recommended punishing the Kleins for releasing the address of the plaintiffs, the Commissioner decided that it was not worth punishing them over it. Since you are a lawyer, I urge you to look over the original court documents that are online since it plainly states all of this. Religious convictions should not be punished in today’s society.

      • SFBruce

        The plaintiff entered the Kleins’ bakery to buy a cake; instead they were told their money wasn’t good enough, because, in Kleins’ view, they were “abominations.” Now, aside from the fact that you have an interesting idea of what isn’t hateful, Oregon has a law which forbids discrimination based on sexual orientation. If the Kleins choose to disobey that law, they have to pay the consequences. To refuse to pay a 135,000 fine when their supporters have raised almost half a million dollars for that purpose is literally an instance where the Kleins want their cake and eat it too.

  • Erockeris

    God sure does love making gay people, and people full of hate. He must really love murder and killing too since in the base of things…. we are all made in his image. This god fellow seems pretty evil now. The people that follow him do too. “Are ye a christen of faith, lets stone ye to find out” “Are you a witch??? Burn them to find out” “God said to not see these people as human because i don’t agree on their life style”. Yaaa this god fellow and his followers are pretty evil, I mean their belief is what made slavery in the US ok. “Can’t own a person if they are christen… but if we don’t make them christen then salves are cool… same with rape, incest, adultery, sodomy, and murder.” I’ll side with the lesbo’s and the courts on this.

    • Matthew T. Mason

      Troll. Flagged.

      • Valri

        And I’ll be sure to flag you next time you go on one of your spittle-flecked tirades of name calling, too.

  • Dave_L

    [T]he final order, written by Commissioner Brad Avakian, read. “It is about a business’s refusal to serve someone because of their sexual orientation. Under Oregon law, that is illegal.”

    Paul says;

    “Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.” (Romans 13:1)

    “Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29)

    So what is the Christian thing to do? Sell the bakery or let them take it in a court of law? Pay the fine? Do something where they could cater to a sinful world while maintaining a clear conscience?

    ….All three options follow Jesus’ teachings.

    • Peter Leh

      “So what is the Christian thing to do? Sell the bakery or let them take
      it in a court of law? Pay the fine? Do something where they could cater
      to a sinful world while maintaining a clear conscience?”

      as a business owner i can assure you there are many choices. the kliens thought they could make up their own law and get away with it.

      the answer is do BOTH. Follow your conscience AND the state regulations. 🙂

      Happens all the time.

  • Kachina Lively

    Where are the Christian Lawyers and why is this case not being taken to the Supreme Court to protect future Christian Business Owners and this couple. SHAME ON THE Lesbians, Shame on our Courts and shame on the Christian Community for not ACTING in this couples behalf. Are Muslims the only ones with Religious Rights and Freedoms in America, now??? Wow, we are failing God.

    • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

      You are right.We are failing God 🙁 We are failing our Brothers and Sisters in Christ as well 🙁

    • Dave_L

      Hopefully the same sort of Conscientious Objector laws that apply to immigrants and Conscientious Objectors will become available to Christian businesses. It is already on the books, it just needs a little broadening.

      • Peter Leh

        no need for conscientious objectors when you run a business. Set it up, run it as you see fit AND make it satisfy the state requirements.

        the kliens attempted to make up their own rules… and got slapped as they should have.

    • BarkingDawg

      Even Christian Lawyers know a turkey of a case when they see one.

    • respectourdifferences

      “Where are the Christian Lawyers and why is this case not being taken to the Supreme Court to protect future Christian Business Owners and this couple.”

      Protect them from what? Being held accountable to the law?

  • Nidalap

    Haman’s Law all over again. And us without a Mordecai or Esther to intervene this time…

    • John_33

      Don’t be discouraged. Remember Mordechai’s faith (Esther 4:14): he knew that deliverance would come from one place or another, and it will come for us too. Who knows if God has marked one of us to be a Mordechai or an Esther for today? God is in full control.

      • Dave_L

        Are you suggesting violence seeing how the Jews killed over 75,000 in that scenario?

        • John_33

          How on earth did you come to a conclusion like that? However God sees fit, Christians will be delivered through His power. That was my point. Nothing more; nothing less.

          • Dave_L

            Good, you had me worried.

      • Nidalap

        Thanks for the encouragement! 🙂

  • respectourdifferences

    Their choice to not use the money they raised to pay the fine and thus face the consequences.

    • BarkingDawg

      The are angling for more donations

      Dig deep,

      • respectourdifferences

        That is probably why they are smiling – they know it will work.

        • BarkingDawg

          They have already pulled in 400K

  • BarkingDawg

    Placing a lien against the property does NOT mean that the Kleins are losing their home.

    In fact, it is almost impossible to sell a property with a judgement lien on it.

  • F. Lopez

    Dear Mr. Holden:

    Governments may be instituted by God, but when their edicts go contrary to His will, it is a believer’s duty to resist. Daniel…as well as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego had no problem saying no!

    • BarkingDawg

      Yawn.

      This is the Klein’s own fault.

      Too bad for them.

  • Goldbeard

    It would appear that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” is insufficient to hinder States from enacting such vile laws. Didn’t Oregon ratify the Constitution and its amendments, known as the Bill of Rights? All State Laws should have to comply with that ratification.

    • Peter Leh

      the white southern chrisitans could not keep blacks as second class citizens based on their religion… neither can we do the same to the gays, or women, or the aged, or disability.

      equal protection applies to all.

  • Matilde Tavares

    Once I had to face loss of my home. I found this scripture held me during situation, went to Supreme Court without advocate/lawyer but God Word & Holy Spirit . This was the Scripture I stood on: col 2:14. regarding legal requirements, & proclaimed till end, & few others . During trial, even “enemy lawyer” wanted to help me… & I never lost my home, because the Word works. Life not fair, nor the world system, but God is good, & stands by His Word! I agree with you that every plan of hell to kill, Rob & destroy is cancelled/overturned , & Col2:14 is removing all legal requirements, that righteousness be established. & all those that stood against u be confounded & overturned counsel, like Ahithophel, & be removed from office. Victory by the Blood of Jesus, & in His Name. Will continue to stand with Oregon prayer for Victory & return of state Oregon, back to God

    • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

      Amen for Victory and in returning Oregon back to God.

    • Dave_L

      That is certainly an interesting use of that Scripture. I never thought of it this way but even so, it points to God’s faithfulness.

  • Phipps Mike

    while its certainly a shame that they will lose their house, they are NOT victims. No more than Kim Davis is. Both chose to do ACTIONS of bigotry, Religion is not a free pass to oppress ANYBODY. The sooner thats learned, the better.

    • Peter Leh

      we all have choices. If you have a choice how can it be “persecution”?

      your bed.. now lay in it.

      • Phipps Mike

        1. I am not gay
        2. gays only CHOOSE to act on their NATURAL sex drive.
        3. I don’t have to lay in ANY bed because I make GOOD choices.

        its OPPRESSION, not persecution. That makes a LOT o difference.

        • Peter Leh

          indeed.
          Sry for the confusion i meant:

          we claim we “christians” are being “persecuted”.

          • Phipps Mike

            the problem I see is that in this specific battle, there is no good solution. By not allowing Christians to refuse service, it takes away their freedom of religion, By not allowing SSM, it is taking away a fundamental life right from the gays. Either way, somebody is losing out.

          • Peter Leh

            It certainly seems that way. However as a business owner i KNOW I have to follow the SOS rules a regulations. I agreed to the SOS rules and regulations in exchange of opening by business.

            Now within those rules a regulation i can set up and run by business as i see fit. Any violation of the r/r is ON ME not the state. So is the state taking away my religious rights? Not at all. But i have to know if i can;t serve all with a product then i have to change the product or take it off completely.

            Some would say we should be able to serve whoever we want. Nice idea, until one realizes was have trued that before. See Black Community in the Antebellum South. Hence the reason for protected groups today.

            So if anyone is “losing out” it would be the business not the citizen. Citizens have their protections business have theirs but to compare a citizen to a business would be like comparing apples to oranges.

            But as business owner i can assure you this mess is all from the Kleins… and they will lose this fight because they KNEW the rules

    • BarkingDawg

      They will NOT lose their house.

      The givernment is just putting a lien on it. One that they can pay off with the cash they have in their go fund me account.

  • graceconnie

    I have to comment on this because so many people are crying how mean it is to not bake a cake for a homosexual wedding. What these bakers did is what is according to biblical law, and no matter how many scriptures you want to cherry pick out and say that it is not so, it is still the christian law that any christian must follow, even if that means persecution, imprisonment, or even death. I will take one small story, from the new testament, to prove my point. John the baptist sat in the wilderness eating his honey and bugs, baptizing people at the river, telling the people to repent of their sins. One day he started criticizing Herod the king, who was living in sin with his brother’s wife. For that he was arrested, his head was chopped off and his head was brought to the kings daughter on a platter. According to our “bake the cake for the lesbians” crowd, John the baptist should have shut his mouth and let the sin be. But he did not, because according to biblical law, sexual immorality is a sin, and must be condemned as such.

    • respectourdifferences

      “What these bakers did is what is according to biblical law”

      What biblical law says that a baker should not make a cake for a party celebrating the civil marriage of two people of the same gender?

      • graceconnie

        To go back to the John the Baptist story, if this couple had gone to John the Baptist by the Jordan River and said “Baptist us, we are getting married” would he have baptisted them? Or, more in point with the story, would he have baptisted King Herod had he showed up the River? The answer is, no, he would have not, he would have told him to get rid of the sexual sin from his life and repent before seeing him.

        • graceconnie

          His exact words when he saw those full of unrepentant sin (Sadducees and Pharisees) were: You brood of vipers! Who told you could escape the punishment that God is about to send? Do those things that will show that you have turned from your sins.
          Sweet cakes, from what I hear, turned down the couple much nicer.
          And honestly, Brood of vipers is exactly what I would call this crowd who wants to rain down death and destruction on one little couple trying to bake pretty, yummy cakes.

    • Peter Leh

      “it is still the christian law that any christian must follow”

      That is all well and good. It does not change the fact the Kleins did not structure their business to follow their conscience AND state laws.

  • Dave_L

    One thing I tell prisoners when sharing Christ with them is that they are in a perfect place to exercise “Unconditional Love”. I.e., in the furnace of affliction.

    It is easy to love people and family as we do “Ice Cream”, when all is well and things make us happy. But to love your enemies and those who torture you, even try to kill you, or take all that you have spent your life working for? That becomes a whole new opportunity, like no other, to develop and refine Christ’s love in your heart.

    Many think pleasure is God’s blessing, but some of the greatest sufferings and trials of our faith are the greater blessings. As God controls every detail of every foul situation, perfecting Christ in us.

    “My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,” (Galatians 4:19)

  • Lori Siebert Brooks

    Another thing to consider in this chaos is that the government is blatantly interfering in this couples OWN business. Business owners that own their own businesses should have the right to refuse ANY customer….it is their business! Most do not because they want to make money, but if they choose to forgo the extra money then that is their business. Is there only one dang bakery in Oregon? And what about the businesses that are refusing to sell guns to Muslims? It is their right to refuse anyone with or without a reason. That is suppose to one of the perks of owning your own business rather than working for a large retail corporation that makes all the rules. I think that many of us who are Christian would have also done the exact same thing this couple did. The laws need to be changed to allow all business owners to operate their business as they see fit, period.

    • SFBruce

      Does that include a restaurant owner who believes the races shouldn’t mix, and wishes only to serve white customers?

    • respectourdifferences

      “Business owners that own their own businesses should have the right to refuse ANY customer….it is their business! ”

      Then you would support the repeal of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as well as all subsequent civil rights and anti-discrimination legislation, including protections provided based upon religious belief, yes?

    • Ambulance Chaser

      What if I don’t want to follow health code regulations in my restaurant? Are they tyrannical also? What if I don’t want to pay minimum wage? What if I don’t want to set aside handicapped parking spots?

    • Peter Leh

      “The laws need to be changed to allow all business owners to operate their business as they see fit, period”

      they do. As a business owner i assure to i run my business as i see fit. However i still have to follow the law.

    • Blaylock

      why should they have to go to another bakery? how are they supposed to know it is a xtian bakery? muslims have zero to do with this. public accommodation laws keep those like you from discriminating against others

  • Josey

    This is about shoving one way of thinking into the mindset of another’s opposed thinking, the gaystapo does not want tolerance, they had that already, no they want to force others who are opposed to their thinking to accept their actions, they want those opposed to say it is natural to have sex with the same sex and to be able to marry same sex in which the Bible clearly says to us who read and follow it that this is unnatural and it is about rebellion against Christ and God in which will lead to other perversions being legalized.

    And these two were not oppressed, they were convicted of sin, the fact that they could have taken their money and went to another bakery and gotten their cake and lived in “peace as they claim they want to” proves they felt convicted and unnatural to the point that they claim their peace was interrupted by the bakers. In other words if they had a peace in the first place about it being ok they would not have let something like this take their peace, they would have moved on and given their money to a bakery who would have baked their cake.

    • Peter Leh

      “the fact that they could have taken their money and went to another bakery and gotten their cake”

      As a busienss owner i have to follow the regulations laid out by the secretary of state. What is the law say?

      In addition the reason we have theses laws for the simple reason: When given a chance to do right, those in power either could not or would not.

      example the way the white southern christians treated the blacks. Historically, we have tried this before, remember?

    • Blaylock

      nope. they just want the same rights as you and I have

  • Chrissy Vee

    As a Christian woman, I would like to sue the LGBT community for causing undue suffering, consisting of the same symptoms they have listed. And I have a few more.

    • respectourdifferences

      “I would like to sue the LGBT community for causing undue suffering, consisting of the same symptoms they have listed. And I have a few more.”

      Please, feel free to do so. Oh, by the way, in order to sue someone, you have to cite a law that was violated. What law would you cite?

      • graceconnie

        The owners of Sweet cakes have had death threats, their business shut down, and the property vandalized. Their lives have been destroyed. I would say they have grounds to sue.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Okay, now who is the defendant?

      • Chrissy Vee

        I was being facetious. Oh by the way, that went over your head.

    • Peter Leh

      you may sue for anything… does not mean you win. 🙂

      • Chrissy Vee

        You’re so very right. 🙂 I am not the suing type anyway.

  • Harold Osler

    They got other people to give them more than enough money to pay the fine for harassment and to start a new business. Either pay up or give the money back.

  • Peter Leh

    ““This case is not about a wedding cake or a marriage,” the final order,
    written by Commissioner Brad Avakian, read. “It is about a business’s
    refusal to serve someone because of their sexual orientation. Under
    Oregon law, that is illegal.””

    yep. any business owner knows this.

  • Mo86

    These Rainbow Crowd bullies will not stop until everyone who won’t bow to their demands is financially ruined, in jail, and/or dead.

    • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

      The HOMO-FASCISTS won’t stop until we are all dead. Like the Commies. All Satanists.

  • BarkingDawg

    For people who are so anti-gay, they sure have a gay sign for their business.

  • Cesar Tondo

    What I see in this case is simple miscarriage of the law due to 1. No person can be sued and imprisoned in just exercising their religious beliefs and freedom. 2. The fines imposed were excessive or beyond the capability of the couples to pay as they are only operating a small bakery.

  • George Jenkins

    “Cryer told the outlet. “We didn’t have a choice in the fine. If we had been given the option, we probably would have said: ‘Just apologize. Just say you’re sorry and go away.’” Probably??? Sure!!!!! What a pair of hypocrites !!!!!!!!!! If going away was all they wanted they could have gone to another bakery. The store owners might have even given them the gas money. They wanted to win and force the Kliens to comply with their wishes.

  • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

    This is WITCHCRAFT. The State has been taken over by the filth. God damn Sodom!

  • Gabriel A. King

    Excuse me, “emotional damages”…… ? Iv’e had my feelings hurt PLENTY of times… but it was never cause to STEAL a hundred grand ! The judiciary is obviously totally corrupt and anti-Constitutional.

    Can anyone show me WHERE in the the Constitution it is legal to FORCE people into INVOLUNTARY business agreements ?

    WAKE UP- THE USA HAS BEEN HI-JACKED ! ! !

  • Cosmic Mastermind

    Replace the word “gay” with the word “black”. THAT is why their refusal to serve is unacceptable.

    I’m actually kind of on the side of the couple, I mean it’s just a freaking cake and the fine was utterly, ludicrously Draconian. $135,000 for refusing to bake a cake? Madness. Typical obnoxious self-righteous rug-munchers, God they can be bloody awful people sometimes.

    The Kleins are bigots and if they had refused to serve a person for being black or asian, they would not be receiving the support that they have – and bear in mind they have received over $300,000 in donations so they can easily afford to pay the fine – but this case could and should have been settled with a day-in-jail punishment or community service order and ended right there.

    “Emotional damages”.. whining toddlers in the bodies of adults.

  • WGB

    God will deliver them in Jesus’ name.

    • Kandy

      God can Restore all that they lose and more.

  • bobmarks44

    Queerdom is an abomination, but worse than Queerdom are the SOBs wanting to steal the home of these people who refuse to condone Queerdom.. I believe stoning of those “officials” would be proper and in order. In fact, I advocate it!!

  • MinisterKarl

    Stand up for Jesus Christ and the bible.. GOD says Fear not, for the devil cannot take what belongs to God. This persecution on believers is only the beginning… Trust the bible alone and pray for your enemies.

  • Joseph Essien-Obot

    If Christians are serious they would come out physically, not just anonymously by contributing and verbal support but by physical civil disobedience. All this hoola baloo will get no one nowhere.

  • crusader51

    Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech are guaranteed under our Constitution. What is going on in this case is beyond bizarre with gay rights triumph over religious freedoms. Something stinks and it is obviously elected homosexual officials pushing their agenda.