Woman Wins Appeal to Wear Colander on Head in DMV Photo as Part of ‘Religion’ to Mock Christians

Miller-compressedLOWELL, Mass. — A Massachusetts woman has won her appeal to wear a colander on her head for her driver’s license photo as part of a satirical religion that is meant to mock Christianity and its beliefs.

Lindsay Miller of Lowell, who identifies as a member of the “Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster” or “Pastafarianism,” sought to wear the strainer for the photo this past August, but the Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles (RMV) denied her request.

“I thought of other religions and women and thought that this was not fair. I thought, ‘Just because you haven’t heard of this belief system, [the RMV] should not be denying me a license,” she told reporters.

A friend of Miller then turned to the American Humanist Association (AHA) for assistance, which filed an administrative appeal. She was to have attended an appeal hearing in October, but the hearing was postponed and the RMV agreed to allow her to wear the colander since it did not cover her face.

“If people are given the right to wear religious garments in government ID photos, then this must extend to people who follow the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster,” David Niose, legal director of AHA’s Appignani Humanist Legal Center, said in a statement.

The movement began in 2005 when founder Bobby Henderson sent an open letter to the Kansas Board of Education to express his opposition to its decision to allow the teaching of Intelligent Design as an alternative to evolution, mocking biblical Creation with the concept of a “spaghetti monster.”

“With millions, if not thousands, of devout worshipers, the Church of the FSM is widely considered a legitimate religion, even by its opponents—mostly fundamentalist Christians,” the organization’s largely blasphemous website states, then proceeds to make a crude statement about the Almighty that is sexual in nature.

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“If you say Pastafarians must believe in a literal Flying Spaghetti Monster to be True Believers, then you can make a similar argument for Christians,” it later states. “There is a lot of outlandish stuff in the Bible that rational Christians choose to ignore. We do the same with our scripture. This is intentional.”

“He boiled for your sins,” states one poster featured on the site. Another features a mockery of John 3:16, making a reference to “Spaghetti 3:16,” and shows a man carrying a cross that reads “Pastafarianism.”

As previously reported, a woman in Utah was similarly allowed to wear a colander on her head for her license photo, as officials stated that doing so was permissible as long as the photo could “get a visual of the face.”

But in Canada, where the matter went to court, a judge found such requests to be an abuse of the system.

“Too many people implicated in real litigation with consequences that could affect their lives or those of their children or enterprise are waiting their turn in court for us to be silent about the monopolization of these resources to determine if the plaintiff can be photographed wearing a colander or pirate hat,” stated Quebec Superior Court Judge Stéphane Sansfaçon. “We forget too often that the courts are a public service with limited resources that must not be abused.”


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  • acontraryview

    Thank you RFRA.

    • The Skeptical Chymist

      I think you mean “holey”.

    • IB6 UB9

      He boiled for you..

  • TheBBP

    Her “religion” was born of mocking Christianity, but this act is not mocking Christians, she is mocking Muslims who want to wear full-on Burkas in their license photos. If she thinks that she is getting one over on Christians by looking a fool and wearing a pasta strainer on her head, lolololol. Someone spent money to defend this in court… WOW.

    Congratulations, I guess?

    • BKSecrest

      You are correct…she won the right to look like an idiot. The only thing this group is doing is sealing their own fate. I pray that the Father convicts them of their blasphemy and allows them to see the error of their ways before it’s too late.

      • Nogods

        I just can’t figure out why anyone would choose to worship a god that threatens to torture you if you actually use the mind he supposedly has given you. Most people are opposed to sadistic dictators; Christians claim to have a “relationship” with one – and to love him.

        • BKSecrest

          You apparently don’t know a lot about the sacrifice of Christ. Or His word.

          • Nogods

            You apparently believe everything you read. Jesus didn’t die for anyone’s sins. That is just a 1st century superstitious belief. From purely a logical point of view, you can’t hurt an all powerful god. And you certainly can’t kill one. So the whole death/resurrection was just an elaborate theatrical performance to entertain the delusional masses. If you weren’t a brainwashed member of a doomsday cult, this would not be difficult to understand.

          • BKSecrest

            Jesus was born fully man. He laid His deity to the side so that he could become the perfect sacrifice: Philippians 2:5-8 says, “Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.”
            And, no…I don’t believe everything I read but I do believe God’s word. Every dot and every iota. God gives me this faith and He could do the same for you.

          • Nogods

            Isn’t it odd that there is NOTHING written in the bible that could not have been written by someone living in the 1st century? Why is that? Why is the bible filled with so much utter nonsense.

            Most of the characteristics of Jesus are stolen from other ancient figures or not unique. Jesus isn’t all that special in terms of resurrection. At least 6 other gods died and were resurrected prior to Jesus:

            Horus c. 3000 BCE
            Osiris c. 3000 BCE
            Attis of Phrygia c.1400 BCE
            Krishna c. 1400 BCE (possibly as early as 5771 BCE)
            Mithra of Persia c. 600 BCE
            Dionysus c. 186 BCE

            Also, the Jews had already described someone dieing for three days and returning back to life in the stone tablet Gabriel’s Revelation.

            Being born of a virgin is not unique to Jesus and was a common claim in ancient times. Miraculous births are a common element in historical literature and religious texts. Stories of miracle births often include miraculous conceptions and features such as intervention by a deity, supernatural elements, astronomical signs, hardship or in the case of some mythologies complex plots related to creation. Look up miraculous birth for further information.

          • BKSecrest

            I find it even odder that you would go so far to prove the non existence of a man who truly existed and walked the earth. Was seen, talked to, dined with, and had countless miracles on record but yet you pull up a list of mythical beings that are man made and never existed as your proof. Really? Some of these I couldn’t even find and the last one was an actual cult of people. The difference in Christ is that He never expected anything from any body and still gave everything so that man can be saved from their sin. He was obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. The difference is that over 500 people seen Him, talked to Him and dined with Him after His resurrection. Scripture was written not by one man with some twisted vision but by over 40 different men some who never met but yet it weaves an intricate thread from Genesis to Revelations that all leads to Christ. All of your so called proof is all Greek or Egyptian mythology. But even the Greeks were smart enough to know that there was One True God and all those stone statues that they worshiped were just that, man made stone statues. You know this as well. God’s word is written on all hearts even the stone ones who refuse to see. But there’s that emptiness, that loneliness that screams there’s got to be more. There’s plenty of historical proof that Jesus existed, performed many miracles, and was resurrected from the dead. There’s also plenty of non-sense out there that try and disprove this with half truths and myths and the ideology of man. Ya know what’s really odd if you think about it. Jesus is the only one that people will go so far to try and prove that He didn’t exist. His name is the only name that seems to offend and get a knee jerk reaction when spoken. You can talk about all those other false gods any where any time but not the One True God. Heavens forbid. Best wishes to you and your plight. You seem to be a very unhappy soul. I will pray that God drops the scales from your eyes so that you may see the truth before it is too late. We are not promised our next breath.

          • Nogods


            The magical aspects of Christianity are obviously false. Here are simple facts you MUST ADMIT ARE TRUE:

            1. YOU MUST ADMITTED THAT AT LEAST SOME OF THE SUPERNATURAL CLAIMS MADE IN THE BIBLE ARE FALSE. This would include such things as the story of Adam and Eve (science is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that Adam and Eve were not the first humans and there is no evidence or reason to believe they ever existed. So the entire story of jesus is built upon this false premiss.) and noah (there is NO evidence of a world-wide flood let alone one of the proportion or duration as described in the bible.) If this is true, it places into question ALL supernatural claims. And the resurrection of Jesus is really the ONLY claim upon which his divinity is based.

            2. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT THE BIBLICAL ACCOUNTS OF THE RESURRECTION ARE INTERNALLY INCONSISTENT. This again is evidence that the accounts are unreliable. As an example, did Jesus ascended into heaven the day of his claimed resurrection (Luke 24:51), or 40 days later? (Acts 1:3). When Jesus died, did an earthquake open all the graves unleashing a zombie apocalypse (as recounted in Matthew). Why is that fact completely ignored by the other gospels. Was Jesus crucified on the day before Passover (John) or the day after (the other three.) Three gospels give three different versions of the last words of Jesus. Matthew says that Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea. Acts claim that he was buried by Jewish strangers and their rulers. The four gospels conflict in their account of the number of women that came to the tomb Easter morning. Matthew and Mark claim that one woman was at the tomb. Luke and John claim there were two. Matthew claims that the tomb was not open when they got there. The other three say that the tomb was open. There are many more contradictions. And they all can’t be right. But they all can be wrong.

            3. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT THE EARLY ROMANS REGULARLY DEIFIED MERE MORTALS. The early Romans were ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that men could become gods and gods could become men long before the time of Jesus. Early roman gods included Julius Cesar, Caesar Augustus, and Romulus. Almost ALL roman emperors were ultimately declared gods. This supernatural claim was bestowed upon virtually ANYONE who showed some type of special skill or authority. Thus, bestowing this title upon Jesus would be NOTHING unusual.

            And as it turned out, the early Romans were ABSOLUTELY WRONG about all these other gods. But these were the EXACT SAME people that claimed that jesus rose from the dead and proclaimed him a god, just as they had proclaimed many others before and after him. And just as these early Romans were ABSOLUTELY WRONG in their evaluation of the evidence as to the existence of all the other roman gods, they were ABSOLUTELY WRONG in their evaluation of the evidence about your god and his resurrection.

            4. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT THE EARLY ROMANS ERRONEOUSLY BELIEVED IN THE EXISTENCE OF MANY GODS. Romans were ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that Jupiter was a real god. They believed that for a thousand years, even in the face of uncontrovertibly evidence that their polytheistic beliefs were wrong. But as you must admit, the early Romans were ABSOLUTELY WRONG about all these other gods. But these were the EXACT SAME people that claimed that jesus rose from the dead and was a god. But this is the EXACT same claim they had made about many gods before him. And just as these early Romans were ABSOLUTELY WRONG in their evaluation of the evidence as to the existence of all the other roman gods, they were ABSOLUTELY WRONG in their evaluation of the evidence about your god and his resurrection.

            5. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT THE EARLY ROMANS ATTRIBUTED SUPERNATURAL EXPLANATIONS TO OBVIOUSLY NON SUPERNATURAL EVENTS. At the time jesus arrived, the early Roman culture was awash in erroneous supernatural beliefs. The early Romans attributed supernatural causes to natural events. This was typical of virtually all pre-modern cultures. The cultural acceptance of these beliefs was further reinforced by the government and were just a simple part of every day life. Thus, attributing a supernatural explanation to almost any event was nothing unusual. This would include attributing supernatural explanations to stories related to Jesus.

            6. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT THE STORIES DOCUMENTING THE RESURRECTION WERE NOT MEMORIALIZED UNTIL 30 TO 90 YEARS AFTER THE CLAIMED EVENTS HAPPENED AND INVARIABLY DO NOT ACCURATELY DOCUMENT THE EVENTS. Without a doubt, the oral tradition that perpetuated the stories was embellished and modified as it was passed along. The inconsistencies in the gospels clearly demonstrates this.

            7. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT JESUS WAS NOT REGARDED AS A GOD DURING HIS LIFE TIME BUT WAS ONLY ELEVATED TO THAT STATUS DECADES AFTER HIS DEATH. It was not until the 4th century that the roman ruling class defined the supernatural nature of Jesus.

            8. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT THERE ARE NO EXTRA BIBLICAL ACCOUNTS OF THE RESURRECTION THOUGH THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF HIS PERSONA AND THE PENULTIMATE EVENT THAT MADE HIM A GOD. While there are extra biblical accounts referencing Jesus, NONE of them reference ANY supernatural aspects of his life. Though one would suspect that if they were true, they would have been the focus of any extra biblical accounts.

            9. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT CRUCIFIXION WAS COMMON IN THE EARLY ROMAN EMPIRE AND THAT ONLY ONE BODY EVIDENCING DEATH BY CRUCIFIXION HAS EVER BEEN FOUND. Detailed historical records document that during the early Roman Empire, THOUSANDS of people were crucified. And of those THOUSANDS that were crucified, only ONE body has EVER been discovered. If a missing body is evidence of resurrection, then THOUSANDS of other people have also rose from the dead.

            10. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS ARE ONE OF THE MOST UNRELIABLE FORMS OF EVIDENCE. Empirical studies have consistently shown that eye witness accounts, while highly valued, are the most unreliable form of evidence. This is especially true when the claimed events occurred in the prescientific age and involve an uneducated and illiterate population easily swayed by claims of the supernatural. To this day, comparable indigenous populations are easily convinced of all kinds of comparably ridiculous claims. This fact is equally true of highly educated people living today.

            11. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT PEOPLE DIE EVERY DAY HARBORING MISTAKEN BELIEFS. In defense of the resurrection, Christians often ask, why would the disciples of Jesus sacrificed their lives over a belief they knew was false. But that is simply the wrong question to ask. The disciples of Jesus believed Jesus rose from the dead. But their belief was just wrong. So the disciples of Jesus were willing to sacrifice their lives for a MISTAKEN BELIEF. This happens every day. Just ask ISIS members about that. They think they are fighting for a god that you know isn’t real. You also know that there will be no 72 virgins waiting for them. And just like the followers of Jesus, the members of ISIS are willing to die for a mistaken belief.”

          • Guest

            “Nogods” and “Nofun” are the same troll, merely here to stir up the board.

          • WGB

            I agree.

          • Luminya

            Threatening an atheist with hell is an empty threat.

          • pubear

            You have to prove scripture to use it as a source. Any book that says the earth is less than 15,000 years old isn’t credible.

          • Paul Allen

            I can’t seem to find that number anywhere in the Bible.

          • Chrissy Vee

            Amen.

          • dwee5510

            So what we all know these fables that came after the time of genesis.

          • Luminya

            If a god is all powerful, there is no need to send somebody to die. He should be able to “forgive” all on his own. Your argument is ridiculous and makes no sense at all

          • pubear

            Prove Jesus ever lived. There is plenty of reason to think he didn’t.

          • Luminya

            This is crazy talk. How does talking to your imaginary friend absolve you of hurting another individual? It doesn’t. It is immoral. It is up to you to make amends directly to that individual. A scapegoat or “whipping boy” is an old immoral idea. Shame on you.

          • pubear

            The term scapegoat actually comes from the old testament. Lol. But don’t worry, I’m sure they’ll pray for you. Bwahahahahahaha

        • Martin O’Donnell

          Stockholm syndrome

      • Luminya

        This does not sound like a choice to me “believe or perish”. Oh yes I “love” this god because if I don’t he will torture me forever. Does this make any sense??

    • Diane Johnson

      if she was mocking muslims then she could surely think up something…. after all there is plenty of info and current happenings to choose from. This is clearly mocking Christians and I for one am really insulted by it. Christians ….real ones, not the over the top like the Southern Baptist. This is just outright Blasphemy.

      • TheBBP

        You are correct that it is outright blasphemy, but this court case involving her covering her head is her fight against Muslims who want to cover with burkas in their photos. Don’t be insulted by fools.

        • Nogods

          I thought that fools pretended to have invisible friends?

          • TheBBP

            Could be. If you are trying to mock my God, He isn’t invisible. Nor is He dead, nor is He floating in the sky. I appreciate the exchange though. God bless you and enjoy your day.

          • Nogods

            I don’t see your god anywhere. I don’t hear him. I only hear you. If you weren’t here defending the supposed all-powerful creator of the universe, there would be nothing but complete silence. So your god can’t speak, he can’t write, and he doesn’t make TV appearances. But don’t worry, he is in good company, Zeus doesn’t do any of those things either.

      • LeeRyder

        Oh get over it. If your faith was so rock-solid and strong, blasphemy shouldn’t faze you one bit. However, Christians continue to show how WEAK your argument is by screaming foul! over every little insult directed at Christianity.

      • Nogods

        Jesus doesn’t seem to mind. Why should you. He has better things to do like feed starving children, and prevent wars. Oh, wait, he isn’t busy doing that, is he. But neither is Zeus. I wonder why.

      • MamaBear

        What makes you think Southern Baptists are not real Christians? Do you know what they believe? Have you read their statement of faith, the Faith and Message?

        “There is one and only one living and true God. He is an intelligent, spiritual, and personal Being, the Creator, Redeemer, Preserver, and Ruler of the universe. God is infinite in holiness and all other perfections. God is all powerful and all knowing; and His perfect knowledge extends to all things, past, present, and future, including the future decisions of His free creatures. To Him we owe the highest love, reverence, and obedience. The eternal triune God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being.” – exert from the Baptist Faith and Message of the Southern Baptist Convention.

        Perhaps you need to read, “If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.” I John 4:20

        I, too, find what this woman did insulting, but God will eventually handle her. I am more concerned with Christians who cut other Christians down as you did by implying Southern Baptist are not real Christians.
        In my small town (not in the Bible Belt), Southern Baptist have a Crisis Pregnancy Center, a weekly free clinic for uninsured, and are a major part of a local multiple denominational ministry that provides after school tutoring for children, English Second Language classes for adults, help with learning how to apply for jobs, and meals. And no, they aren’t the biggest denomination in town, either.

    • George Simpson

      Seems like mocking the legal system and special treatment religious groups think they deserve to remain untouchable, rather than the actual religion. I’m sure there are plenty of christians who don’t claim special priveledges because of their religion, thus its not mocking christians.

  • Josey

    1Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
    She is a kook!

    • LeeRyder

      Believing in talking snakes and virgin births isn’t kooky? OKAY…

      • Allan Trenholme

        LOL… yeah, kinda like the THEORY of evolution ain’t even kookier right?!

        • LeeRyder

          It makes FAR more sense than a magic man in the sky saying PRESTO! and zombie Jews and talking snakes and virgin births.

          Whom did Cain and Able marry again, dear?

          • Allan Trenholme

            Seriously? Does evolution really make more sense to you? Are you taking the ODDS of life evolving from primordial slime or whatever to where we are today into account too?

            Also, was Cain, Able and Seth Adam and Eves only children? Hint: Genesis 5:3-4
            You really need to improve your research, dear.

          • Allan Trenholme

            Seriously? Does evolution really make more sense to you? Are you
            taking the ODDS of life evolving from primordial slime or whatever to
            where we are today into account too?

            Also, was Cain, Able and Seth, Adam and Eves only children? Hint: Genesis 5:3-4
            You really need to improve your research, dear.

          • Nogods

            Adam and Eve? HAHAHAHAHA!!! As the story goes, god reincarnated himself as Jesus so that he could “sacrifice” himself, to himself, as a means of forgiving the sins of Adam and Eve. Yet, science is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that Adam and Eve were not the first humans and there is no evidence or reason to believe they ever existed (as you rightly observe). So the entire story of jesus is built upon this false premiss. If someone doesn’t believe in the genesis story, and the entire story of Jesus is built upon that story, why would they believe the Jesus story?

          • Meepestos

            “Are you taking the ODDS of life evolving from primordial slime or whatever to where we are today into account too?” Your question is proof of your misconception of Evolution. You need to do some research on what the Theory of Evolution is. You could start with a site from a reputable university like Berkeley. Try to avoid Atheist and Creationist sites.

          • Luminya

            You are being willfully ignorant. You need to read a biology book and educate yourself, the content of your posts sounds very foolish.

          • Meepestos

            Only being indoctrinated or willfully ignorant would make one believe the god character of the bible is anything more than superficial. The God character is limited and unworldly.

        • Nogods

          Approximately one million peer reviewed publications are produced every year documenting research that is consistent with and supports evolution (Scientometrics. 2010 September 84(3); 575-603). Much of the research is conducted by god fearing religious folk. (July, 9th 2009 Pew research study.). You would think they would have an interest in disproving evolution and proving that their superstitious beliefs are true. Yet, there are ZERO peer reviewed publications supporting intelligent design/creationism/irreducible complexity or anything remotely resembling support for the idea that the universe was created by your god, with magic, about 6,000 years ago.

          • Allan Trenholme

            Wow Nogods… you know, I’m not taking this personally as I can see you really have issues with God and not me. And regarding all your comments, not just to me, I know it would be a complete and absolute waste of time to argue with you as that’s all we would be doing so I’ll leave it there. I do hope that one day you will see Jesus for who He really is and how much He wants to know you personally and up close.
            God bless!

          • Nogods

            I don’t have any problems with your god – he is fictional. That is why you are still here pretending to know his will and what he wants. Your god is a deaf mute just like Zeus. He doesn’t talk either. He also needs people just like you to declare his will and speak on his behalf. Is that hilarious? The supposed all-powerful creator of the universe is a mute!

          • Meepestos

            You do realize you are engaging with an atheist so why would you think Nogods would have an issue with a character in the bible? Do you have an issue with Zeus or Hera because you see no evidence of them or do not believe in them?

          • WGB

            Very well said.

        • Nogods

          You claim that science does not have all the answers (which it openly admits) but then go on to claim that YOU do have ALL the answers. Tens-of-thousands of the world’s smartest scientists are diligently working to figure out where the universe came from and how life evolves, but YOU have it ALL figured out. You KNOW all the answers. And you are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN you are right. All those math equations and research that Richard Feynman, Einstein, or Stephen Hawking have struggled with are meaningless to you; all the hard work being done at the worlds top universities is a complete waste of time and money. Because YOU already know the answers to the questions these brilliant minds have been searching for. What is even more amazing is that you didn’t even have to waste all that time going to school, studying, and actually getting a real education! You found all the answers to the world’s most challenging questions in ONE BOOK which was written in the 1st century! And to top it off, you didn’t even have to read that ONE BOOK. You just let other people tell you what was written in the first chapter – when you were a child nonetheless! That was good enough for you, and now you are CERTAIN you are right! You are amazing! A rational person would see a problem with this. To you, it makes perfect sense.

        • Meepestos

          What do you find kooky about the Theory of Evolution? Perhaps you could publish your findings or at least create a blog for us to visit.

          • IB6 UB9

            and Relativity while he’s at it. Just a “theory”, you know.

        • Luminya

          Human behavior only makes sense in light of evolution. A sensible god would not make such fundamental flaws in our design.

      • tigersfan61

        One day every person will bow the knee and proclaim JESUS CHRIST is LORD to the glory of God the Father…

        • LeeRyder

          That’s nice, sweets.

        • Nogods

          HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Jesus – STILL dead.

          Isn’t it interesting how Christians believe that their god listens to them and answers their prayers. So if their god heals them in response to prayer, why do Christians have the same life expectancy as everyone else (all other things being equal)? The simple math says that their god does nothing. But not to worry, Thor and Zeus never answer prayers either.

          • tigersfan61

            1 Peter 3:18-22
            “For
            Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring
            us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached
            to the spirits in prison, who
            formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days
            of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight
            souls, were saved through water. There is also an antitype which now saves us–baptism (not the
            removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward
            God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels
            and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.”

            Let’s see…The Bible states that Jesus is alive and at the right hand of God…and you…a mere sinful human being claim that Jesus is dead…hmmmm…I believe that I will go with God…

          • Nogods

            Isn’t it interesting to contrast our sources of information: I choose to look for answers from the smartest, most educated segment of our population, who are performing the most cutting-edge research with the most sophisticated and technologically advanced tools humankind has ever created. You, on the other hand, choose to look for answers from a 1st century superstition written by bronze/Iron age nomadic sheep herders, who occupied a remote desert oasis, during the prescientific age, who spent an inordinate amount of time consumed with the measliness of sheep and goats, and who had no knowledge of such simple things as paper or the number zero.

          • Guest

            Oh, the irony! 🙂 You’re here for comic relief, right?

          • Nogods

            “Isn’t it odd to think that there are an infinite variety of things the christian god could do that would immediately and unequivocally convince everyone of his existence. Yet, he chooses to not do any of them. Do you think it is because he is identical to all the other gods we now regard as mythology?

            So now let’s see how open your mind is. Tell me what I could show you that would convince you that your god is identical to all the other gods you could choose to worship, but are CERTAIN are not real? Just ONE thing? One small thing? Because their are an INFINITE variety of things you could show me that would instantly and unequivocally convince me that your god is actually real. Brainwashed cult members can never think of anything.”

          • Guest

            You’re not a very good troll. You just keep blabbering on about nonsensical meaningless word vomit. So sad.

          • Nogods

            It is unfortunate that you lack the analytical skills to comprehend basic sentences.

          • Guest

            It’s unfortunate that you can’t troll well. 🙂 Oh lookie, you’re posting under both your handles at once! 🙂 Slow night? 🙂

          • Luminya

            Making fun of someone is not how you make a sound argument…sigh…smh. Nogods is asking for proof, to make your argument, this is the point you need to address.

          • WGB

            lol. Good catch. I think they’re teenagers playing on their parents computers.😂

          • Luminya

            You are not providing a cogent argument for Nogods, try again.

          • WGB

            Well said.

          • WGB

            Sadly, I think he may have multiple personalities. Poor thing really needs prayer, desperately.

          • tigersfan61

            The Jews…No reason for this people group should be in existence today…They were taken into captivity by the Babylonians and Assyrians and should have disappeared from history…How about the Hittites…For years historians said that the Bible was all washed up because it named this group of people which they said never existed, that is until archaeologist discovered them …How about King Cyrus…Named by God in Isaiah 45 as the king who will send the Jews back to Israel to rebuild the Temple and the City…all 150 years before he was even born…

          • Nogods

            Find me ANY evidence that the great exodus ever happened.

          • tigersfan61

            I am so sorry that you are looking in the wrong place! By the way…Peter, whom I quoted, was a fisherman, not a shepherd…just saying..

          • Nogods

            The all-powerful creator sure is hard to find. Gods always are.

          • tigersfan61

            Not really…The Bible tells us that we will “find Him when we seek Him with all of our heart”

          • Nogods

            Does that magic trick work for finding other gods as well or only your god?

          • tigersfan61

            Not a “magic trick”…If you pray and ask God to reveal Himself to you, He will do it…you just don’t understand how God is being merciful to you right now by engaging me in conversation…just to show you that God loves you and sent His only Son, Jesus, to die for your sin and because He rose from the dead, you can have victory over death, sin and the grave…no magic at all…

          • Nogods

            What a silly superstitious belief. Do you believe all of that is true because that is what you were taught as a child?

            Your god also doesn’t have children. The god of the Old Testament is really the same god of the New Testament – well, if you believe in the trinity that is. And the vast majority of Christians accept the trinity as absolute truth, just like you probably do. So the story goes like this: A god magically impregnated a virgin with himself, so he could give birth to himself, and then sacrifice himself, to himself, to negate the “original sin” of a couple we now know never existed in the first place.

            So according to the trinity, the father, the son, and a ghost are all part of an inseparable whole. So Jesus really isn’t any different then the barbaric sadist god of the Old Testament – though it is clear you wish they were. Christianity is a monotheistic religion – you worship just one god – but Christians treat it as polytheistic to separate themselves from the genocidal insanity of god the father documented in the Old Testament. But that can’t be done without being dishonest about your superstitious beliefs. Because I know you don’t worship multiple gods do you – you know, like the early Romans, the Greeks, or the Hindus.

            Jesus didn’t die for anyone’s sins. That is just a 1st century superstitious belief. You can’t hurt an all powerful god. And you certainly can’t kill one. So the whole death/resurrection was just an elaborate theatrical performance to entertain the delusional masses. If you weren’t a brainwashed member of a doomsday cult, this would not be difficult to understand.

          • tigersfan61

            1 John 1:1-4, “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life– the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us– that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.”

            1 John 2:1-2, “My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.”

            1 John 2:22-23, “Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
            Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who
            acknowledges the Son has the Father also.”

            My prayer for you is that God will bring you to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ before it is eternally too late…

          • Nogods

            Sorry, I have no interest in joint a doomsday cults.

        • Nofun

          That would be the bible telling you to believe the bible …circular thinking.

          Free thinkers will never bow down to your faith construct.

          • The Watcher

            Free thinkers will never think anything you say has any meaning at all.

          • Nogods

            Free thinkers will think your comment is dumb.

          • Nofun

            Now, now.

          • WGB

            Very true.

        • Ken Campbell

          Um…One day all thinking people will be atheist

        • Steeeevo

          Oh, I am shaking in my shoes.

      • Meepestos

        I doubt that most Christians believe in talking snakes and virgin births, but the ones that do, I can only imagine what kooky things they believe in.

    • The Last Trump

      I wasn’t aware that Christians stood out in their driver’s licence photo’s because of their religion!
      Hee hee! What a bunch of knuckle heads. Not even mocking the right religion! 🙂
      Must have us mixed up with our turban and burka wearing, more “peaceful” neighbours.

      • Josey

        Or the tin hat group…geez

      • Bill

        No- Amish, Mennonites, Etc.

        • MamaBear

          Amish don’t get drivers licenses. They use horses and buggies.

          • Bill

            So…. That is not an arguemnet about the issue. Yes- Mennonites and other fundamentalists do. That is not the issue. If some can do it any can do it. Also remember all the voter id laws passed in conservative states. Are you saying Amish also don’t vote?

          • MamaBear

            Actually, most Amish don’t vote. And they oppose having their picture taken as well, at least their faces.
            And except for Amish, Old Order Mennonites (not all), Hutterites, and Catholic nuns, you would be hard pressed to find any Christian group where women cover their heads on a daily basis, although there may be a few denominations where women still cover their hair for worship services. Most certainly don’t. Baptists don’t. Pentecostals don’t. Nazarenes don’t. Church of Christ and Disciples of Christ don’t.
            The issue isn’t that this lady had a head covering. As long as her face is visible, that is OK with me. It is the claim that she is doing it to make fun of Christians. (1) It is wrong to make fun of any group like that. (2) She showed her extreme ignorance of Christians as only a very tiny percent of Christian women do so. There are only about 250,000 Amish in this country. There are 16 million Southern Baptists, plus National Baptists, American Baptist, Conservative Baptist and other Baptist denominations and none of their women wear head coverings for religious reasons.

          • Jeff Cigar

            Why are you lying? Most Amish people and Mennonite people vote.

      • Ken Campbell

        This type of confusion is normal. Religious people do not need to wear colanders or headgear to indicate their bizarre thinking

        • Bill

          And yet they may not mix fabrics.

    • Bill

      Maybe, but I bet she doesn’t believe in talking snakes.

      • Josey

        No, she just believes in wearing a spaghetti colander on her head… LOL…enough said.

    • Nogods

      Isn’t it interesting to think that, over the past 2,000 years, BILLIONS of Christians have believed that Jesus would return during their lifetime. And EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM have gone to their graves COMPLETELY WRONG. And just as they have ALL been COMPLETELY WRONG, so will you. Jesus is STILL dead. And dead people don’t come back to life. Believing that they do is a superstitious belief that has ALWAYS been wrong. Keep pretending that your reality will somehow be different then the BILLIONS of Christians that have come before you. But know that you are just fooling yourself.

  • Jean Adams

    Surely if she is showing that this is what she looks like,
    then she should always drive with the colander on her head….shouldn’t she?

    • Johnny Jaqua

      That is like saying if you wear this dress for your licence photo you then must wear the exact same dress while driving. Your logic is fallacious.

  • Kenneth Hanson

    Nutjob. She urgently needs to turn to the one true Lord! Amen.

    • Nogods

      All hail Zeus!

    • Nofun

      One god is good as another.

      • Ken Campbell

        Or one god is just as silly as another.

    • WGB

      Amen.

  • Lori RareJewel Allen

    She and her Spaghetti Religion ARE ALL A BUNCH OF AZZHOLES SNAP OUT OF IT !!

    • LeeRyder

      I’ve met far more Christian azzholes in my day.

      • The Last Trump

        Might have something to do with you stalking Christian websites.
        Just sayin’.

  • Lori RareJewel Allen

    RIDICULOUS

    • LeeRyder

      If your faith is so strong, this shouldn’t faze you one bit.

  • LeeRyder

    I just love the sheer arrogance of Christians. Always mocking other religions, yet can’t stand when you are made fun of.

    • John_33

      She can wear that colander all she wants. I don’t feel mocked one single bit. I feel sorry for her.

      • Becky

        Amen.

  • Nidalap

    Well, whatever floats your spaghetti boat, lady! You’ve certainly put us all in our place! (^_^)

    • Becky

      Lol

    • Nogods

      Isn’t it interesting to think that there is just as much evidence supporting the existence of flying purple fairies that orbit the earth as there is supporting the existence of your god. So if it is irrational to believe that purple fairies are real, it is also irrational to think gods are real and to organize your life around them.

      • Nidalap

        Ha! Say what you want, but the lady in the article championing your side of the argument is pictured with a colander on her head! (^_^)

        • Nogods

          And she is wearing it to mock ancient superstitious beliefs like yours. That is hilarious.

          • Nidalap

            Oh, it is! Funny and sad all at once. Had she been of our way of thinking, doing this to mock yours, you wouldn’t have hesitated to twit her for it, and we both know it! 🙂

          • Nogods

            Ridiculous ideas deserve ridicule.

          • Guest

            So does switching from “Nofun” to “Nogods”. 🙂 Try to be more original when you troll.

          • Nogods

            I can see that you find similar names confusing. That explains a lot.

          • Guest

            Weren’t you smart enough to think of a variation in handles? 🙂

          • Nogods

            Aren’t you smart enough to compare what I have written with what someone else has written, and from that, use basic logic and reason skills to conclude that the writings are from two completely unrelated people? I bet you find shiny objects magical.

          • Guest

            You can’t even come up with new material after all these years? Come on, nogods/nofun/nobrains, you’re boring!

          • Nogods

            I guess I was wrong – you aren’t smart enough to compare two writings to one another.

          • Nofun

            Hey, I am not him. Lets not bear false witness now.

            Do we even sound remotely the same?

          • Guest

            Sure you are.

          • WGB

            Note: the troll likes to upvote himself, lol. I think he has mental issues that only God can help him with. I pray he finds Jesus Christ and leaves us alone.

          • Nidalap

            Yep! (^_^)

  • pighead

    Firstly, it looks to me by wearing that thing on her head is more mocking Islam since they are the ones who insist on wearing head coverings. Secondly, she is free to believe whatever her little heart desires, but still looks like a fool.

    • Nofun

      What about people who hang torture devices around their necks?

      • pighead

        you are correct. I would never wear a cross around my neck. I’ve always felt that if someone murdered my son with a gun I wouldn’t wear a miniature gun around my neck. Again as I said, you or anyone else can wear whatever they want.. If it looks like foolish to me than that is my opinion.

        • Nofun

          Fair enough.

  • BB

    Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. Galatians 6:7-8

    • Nofun

      The bible say believe the bible or else …circular thinking buddy.

      God is mocked all the time and nothing happens. You just want people to suffer to maintain your faith construct … it hard work to keep that delusion afloat.

      • BB

        Isn’t it great that we live in the United States of America where we can believe what we want to. Good luck with your beliefs!

        • Nogods

          It really is amazing the stupid things you can convince a child are true.

          • Luminya

            Religious indoctrination is really awful. I would really love to inculcate our children with critical thinking because it is so obvious from arguing with relgious folk that this something humans have a problem with.

        • Nofun

          I fully support those rights. Don’t worry though …. I don’t have any beliefs. Reality is the only world view you need.

    • Nogods

      I mock gods all the time. They really don’t seem to mind. They must be to busy preventing priests from molesting young boys.

      • Luminya

        Oh snap!!

    • Luminya

      Reciting bible verses does not make for a cogent argument, and threatening atheists with hell does not impress them at all. You might as well be threatening to put coal in their stockings if they don’t behave.

  • Reason2012

    It’s not a “religion” to hatefully mock what others believe – it’s nothing but hate and bigotry. And their hate only proves their conscience knows the truth – no one would waste their time hating on something they really did not believe in.

    • LeeRyder

      Christians mock scientists and atheists constantly. Hypocrite.

      • Reason2012

        We make unusual hats to mock scientists? Please cite where this takes place.

        And any Christian that does so is only showing one more reason why they need to think twice about calling themselves a Christian.

        The point remains: it’s not a religion to hatefully mock others – you confused this with Christians (an actual religion) supposedly mocking others.

        • Nofun

          They don’t mention Christianity at all. You choose to be insulted.

          • Reason2012

            They don’t mention Christianity at all.

            They don’t?

            A Massachusetts woman has won her appeal to wear a colander on her head for her driver’s license photo as part of a satirical religion that is meant to mock Christianity and its beliefs.

          • Nofun

            It is to question religions not just Christianity.

            There is nothing they demand that Christians don’t. Its an attempt to free minds from taking religion too seriously.

    • Nofun

      She is lovingly mocking .. you need to be saved from religion.

    • Nogods

      Smart people understand that they aren’t limited to only talking about subjects they “believe in”. I don’t believe in Santa clause. But I talk about him every Christmas. I don’t believe in many conservative political ideas. But I also talk about them. I don’t believe in fictional characters, but I talk about them. And i don’t believe in ancient superstitious beliefs like yours. Smart people talk about things that affect their lives – not necessarily what they believe in

    • Nogods

      Ask your gay friends what real hate looks like. I am sure they will have a lot to say about Christians.

      • Reason2012

        No, the gay people I know don’t have much to say about Christians – the only ones who claim Christians hate are those homosexual activists who are trying to use hate themselves to demonize any who disagree with their beliefs about sexuality.

  • Wanda Wyatt

    I am a heterosexual and this woman is a disgrace to the Gay population!

  • http://www.mcquade.info/ Christopher McQuade

    I really don’t think she understands what she has done– she is now a fool for everyone to mock for all time. She is a butt of religious joke– and now her family will be dishonored for generations. Good job!

    • Nofun

      You mean humorless christians will hate her.

      Who cares.

    • WGB

      Exactly.

  • Danny Matthews

    What a child. !!!!

  • Shamesha Custer

    I have one question when did they start making heat resistant metal colanders because she and the other pasta people are gonna need to make colander body armor for hell

    • Cady555

      I have a question. Why are Christians so happy about hell? It seems that Christians frequently laugh and crack jokes about the idea that other people will be tortured forever. People with kids, and families and jobs, who donate to charity and bake cookies for their neighbors. Tortured.

      When I hear about a person being tortured, whether in my time and country or in another, and whether I consider the victim a “good guy” or a “bad guy”, I always feel a little bit sick. I cannot get the images out of my mind. I feel ill. Yet Christians giggle and laugh.

      If Christians really believed in hell, I simply do not understand the gleeful “Oh goody goody God’s gonna show you.”

      • Shamesha Custer

        Good works do not get you to Heaven but if you read the Bible you would know that. Heaven and Hell are real places for the saved and for the dammed. Problem is is that too many people try to do what they like and play the”I was good card”. Serve one God Jesus Christ the only God, or deal with your decision. It’s funny there is no documentation for all of these homemade out of cereal box religions that are made up and yet people want credit for something anything. Seems to me people are living on a hope and no prayer

        • Cady555

          That’s not what I asked. Regardless if whether hell is real, regardless of whether you think eternal torture is good or right or just, why are Christians so happy and giddy about someone else being tortured?

          I can think of no one who deserves to be tortured more than the masterminds of the Paris bombing. If I heard they were captured and tortured, I would feel a lot of emotions. “Happy” and “gleeful” would not be among them.

          Why do Christians sound so smug and so happy when they talk about people being tortured?

          • Shamesha Custer

            I don’t speak for all Christians but I hope none would parish in Hell but that’s not the case I am not happy at all about anyone suffering but like I said I don’t have a choice in their lives they do by reading God’s word and appling it to their lives. If I was to think anything was funny it would be that The Word of God is the answer and people CHOOSE to ignore it then cry when a CHRISTIAN speaks the facts or their mind

        • WGB

          Well said.

      • Shamesha Custer

        Oh if I had one reason to be happy about Hell it’s because I am not going there when I died or before while I live for Jesus Christ 😇

        • Cady555

          Wow. The very thought of torture makes me ill. Even if the person being tortured were a terrorist and mass murderer.

          I would never joke and say I was happy because it was someond else not me. I do not understand that absence of humanity.

    • Nofun

      Living in fear of a faith construct eternally burning you is no way to go through life son.

  • James Twist

    Atta girl!

  • Guest

    Poor thing is mentally ill.

    • Nofun

      No, just religious …granted there is not much difference.

      • Guest

        You poor soul.

        • Nofun

          Save your faux sympathy for yourself .. you are wasting the only life you get pretending to be someone you are not.

          • Guest

            Friend, you don’t know me and you certainly don’t know my heart. I wish you well.

          • Nofun

            I don’t know .. I know you deal out sympathy as a passive aggressive way to push religion.

            I just want to save from wasting the only life you get.

          • Guest

            Speaking of passive aggressiveness, are you sure this is how you want to spend your evening? 🙂

          • Nofun

            To save a victim of religion from wasting the only life they get …. sure its worth it.

          • Guest

            I think you have to save yourself before you can save anyone else. 🙂

          • Nofun

            I am saved from religion. Are you?

          • Guest

            What’s that supposed to mean? What is religion?

          • Nofun

            Believing in things without evidence and wasting your life pretending to be a adherent to a god which is nothing more than a faith construct …..instead of being yourself.

            Many Christians at the end of their lives find god no comfort at all … they finally realize they did not live their lives the way they wanted to and now its too late … that’s worse than a 1000 hells.

          • Guest

            Well, let’s look at your statements:

            a.) “Believing in things without evidence”. It’s stupid to believe in things without evidence, true, but it is stupid to not believe in things – or people – who have been proven to be true.

            b.) “pretending to be an adherent to a god”. Indeed, that is stupid. It’s also a waste of time pretending to be anything, whether it’s a wizened atheist or someone who believes in a phony moon god. However, if one truly adheres to God – the real, living, historically-proven God, then one is not pretending anything.

            c.) “Many Christians at the end of their lives find god no comfort at all”. My, what a pity! I’ve never seen that happen. In fact, I’ve seen quite the opposite. Have you really seen this happen, or are you just surmising?

            d.) “1000 hells”. Have you ever experienced one hell? If not, how can you say what is or isn’t worse than hell?

          • Nofun

            a) No real world evidence of any god has ever been found and no phenomena has been discovered to have supernatural causes.

            b) You are pretending to be a Christian which is not even a real person but a gestalt of cheery picked bible passages that 4000 christian sects can’t decide on. There is no first century evidence of Jesus and the Jesus story itself is an exact rewrite of the Egyptian Mithra and Horus legends.

            c) Many geriatric nurses attest that “not living your life the way you wanted” was people’s biggest regret. Google it.

            d) There are no hell’s. But discovering too late you wasted the only life you get comes close.

          • Guest

            a.) Jesus Christ is an historical figure. 🙂

            b.)I’m not pretending to be anything. The Egyptian Mithra and Horus legends thing has been debunked ad nauseum. You haven’t really fallen for it, have you? (Pssst – others have already successfully proven you wrong on this before, just to refresh your memory. 🙂 )

            c.) You are assuming that “not living your life the way you wanted” relates to Christianity. It does not. There are plenty of happy, peaceful Christians who have died in peace and joy.

            d.) You are assuming there is no hell. You are not in a position to judge.

          • Nofun

            a) The court is out on that one but as I say there is no first century proof on any Jesus

            b) Debunked hey. Not really. Just denied.

            c) Plenty have died in abject misery too.

            d) There is no evidence of gods, souls, afterlives heaven or hell. It it isn’t real it doesn’t matter. The absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

          • Guest

            a.) No, it isn’t. Take a basic, secular history course. 🙂

            b.) Of course it isn’t. Do you have proof, or are you just going to keep placing your head in the sand? Evidence is proof, not some poster on the internet typing a bunch of senseless words.

            c.) You don’t have proof. You’re going by what some imaginary nurse said. Where’s your own evidence?

            d.) Sure there is. You just don’t want to believe it. Again, are you always this gullible?

          • Nofun

            a) Show us some first century evidence …. don’t just tell us there is.

            b) Read the Egyptian Book of The Dead for yourself.

            c) Google the subject. It is hardly a leap to accept that some people on their death beds have regrets. The worse regret is not living your life the way you wanted to.

            d) Show us a piece of real world evidence evidence gods, souls, afterlives heaven or hell …. don’t just tell us there is.

          • Guest

            You need to read a history book. 🙂

          • Nofun

            Which one provides real world evidence evidence gods, souls, afterlives, etc.

            That’s rich from someone to frightened to read the Egyptian Book of The Dead. I suppose there is something to fear for you and it will introduce doubt into your beliefs … which will ultimately destroy them.

          • Guest

            You can’t even follow your own arguments. 🙂 This isn’t fun anymore. I feel like I’m battering a baby.

          • Nofun

            Really …please tell me where I am going wrong?

            You haven’t produced any evidence yet ….. seems the angry baby is you.

          • Guest

            I’m sorry – I’m laughing too hard to type. You were debunked on this by another poster months ago. He wiped the floor with you. Can’t believe you’re still posting this stuff. Maybe you and your alt Nogods can talk to each other tonight. I have a feeling you’ll be lonely. 🙂

          • Nofun

            So you actually have nothing then except ridicule.

            The idiot you refer to used cut and pastes from a book … all of which is irrelevant … just read the source material.

            All this pretend laughter doesn’t fool anyone .. you are terrified to read Egyptian Book of The Dead. Terrified. That is sad. A mind closed by fear is a tragedy.

          • Guest

            You were debunked months ago. Months. You still can’t come up with a
            thing, can you? Did you ever take an Egyptology course? If so, you’d
            know the Horus claims you are making are bogus.

            Here’s a link for you:

            coldcasechristianity DOT com/2014/is-jesus-simply-a-retelling-of-the-horus-myth/

            Don’t hurt your brain too much with the big words, okay

          • Nofun

            So you are still too frightened to read the source material instead you believe some religious debunking of the source material.

            Shouldn’t you read the source material first?

            You are a bit of a coward if you don’t and will have no idea what they are attempting to debunk.

          • Guest

            I’m already familiar with the source. Are you not bothering to read the posts? I gave you a link. Go read it.

          • Nofun

            I already read it before .. sad denial.

            Now I think you are lying about reading the Book of the Dead.

            Lying makes baby Jesus cry.

          • Guest

            Oh come on – that’s the best you’ve got? 🙂 You know you take this kind of stuff in Grade 4. Then you can go further into it with a university or college history course on Egyptology. Didn’t you study this in school?

          • Nofun

            No fourth graders read the Book of the Dead, so I don’t know where you are going with that.

            You don’t need a degree in Egyptology to read the Book of the Dead either.

            OK on the life of Jesus do you swear you have read the Book of the Dead.
            Yes or No.

          • Guest

            Maybe you don’t at your school, but I dunno – maybe you went to a “special” school.

            The Bible tells us not to take an oath nor to swear. Why are you critiquing a book you’ve obvious not read?

          • Nofun

            So you haven’t read it. Lets just accept you lied about that. And you didn’t read it out of fear.

            I did not read the whole debunking book just the web excerpts.

          • Guest

            Of course I’ve read it. I don’t have fear about these things. I’ve studied all sorts of major religions and belief systems prior to becoming a Christian. I chose Christianity because it’s the best.

            You should read the link I gave you. That is, if you’re open minded enough.

          • Nofun

            Come now.

            So you started off atheist and was not raised Christian … studied all religions and decided Christianity was the one. Really?

            What evidence convinced you that Christianity was the only real one?

          • Guest

            I wasn’t an atheist. I was just searching. I searched everything – read about humanism, atheism, agnosticism, catholicism, Mormonism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. I also read the Bible from cover to cover. I could see lack of logic in all other religions and belief systems, but Christianity made sense. I also studied a lot of science, and I saw that most of the major scientific finds, like Newton’s, Farraday’s, etc., were based upon the Bible. I saw that the Bible contained scientific truth, and that other religious books did not. For example, did you know that environmentalism was founded upon the Bible? Or that Matthew Maury founded his oceanography on the Bible? I saw that good things (hospitals, science, medicine, charities) came from Christianity and Judaism, and that they didn’t come from other faiths or belief systems, and certainly didn’t originate with them. I studied what historians said about Jesus Christ, and examined and studied His life. That’s when I was hooked. I’ve been a believer ever since.

          • Nofun

            What Newton discovery was based on the bible? Come now?
            No science has religion in it. None. Scientists can be religious but their science cannot.

            So you have never seen secular hospitals, secular medicine, secular charities etc.. Religious hospitals use secular science too.

            But all of this is irrelevant .. you claim to have a personal relationship with the entity god. Any evidence of this entity?

          • Guest

            Newton’s own journal and writings state as such, and you’re wrong about science and religion: the most important scientific discoveries were made by Christians who based their science upon the Bible. You should pick up “Gifted Mind” by Dr. Damadian, the man who invented the MRI. Or read Newton’s writings. Or Michael Faraday’s.

            All the secular things you named – secular medicine, secular hospitals, etc. – were actually based upon Judeo-Christian principles. The Bible teaches things like this, and so observant Jews and Christians founded them. Do you know why so many Chinese people go into medicine? Because they remember the good Christian missionary Hudson Taylor did as a physician in China, and they want to emulate him. Every Chinese knows who he is, even all these years later.

            Having a personal relationship with God? Yes, I have one. I am proof of His existence. So, in fact, are you. He calls us His workmanship, but the actual word He uses means “poem”. So we are really God’s poetry, and our existence is proof that there is a Poet. In other words, Creation proves a Creator.

          • Nofun

            Newton also believed in Alchemy. just because you are good in one field does not mean you are not a moron in another just look at Hammers Carson.

            Again no scientist’s science has god or religion in it. Science is based on observation, doubt and analytical thinking … no beliefs or religion required,

            You are not proof of his existence .. at best you and a tree would be evidence of his creation, however, with have rational, real world explanations for all that that require no beliefs.

            So no, not his creation….. Where is the evidence of your god the entity you having a relationship with?

          • Guest

            You didn’t read Newton’s writings, did you? His entire theory was based on the Bible. He didn’t base alchemy on the Bible, just his viable discoveries and they were true. Same with the other scientists I mentioned, and there are plenty. Did you know that many of NASA’s present day scientists are born again, literal 6-day, young earth Creationists?

          • Nofun

            Newton did not use the bible in any scientific theory. What maths and physics exist in the bible. It just isn’t true. Newton was religious but you have to park all beliefs at the door before science can be begin.

          • Guest

            Yes he did. He three laws of motion and cosmology were based his on Isaiah 40:22. He writes about it in “Of Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica”.

          • Nofun

            Please! Does the world have 4 corners too as the bible says?

            Isaiah 40:22.
            “He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.”

            The earth is not a circle.

            People are not like grasshoppers.

            The cosmos is not a canopy to the earth.

            OK how do you do maths and physics with this bible verse?

            It may have inspired him but no science can possible be based on it. His breakfast that morning might have been equally inspirational.

          • Ken Campbell

            But did he have an apple?

          • Nofun

            It was really an orange but godless apple-ists say otherwise.

          • Ken Campbell

            This is beginning to sound like a Monty Python sketch.

          • Guest

            The Hebrew word for “circle” also means “sphere” or “compass”, and
            the Hebrew word for “corners” also means “quarters” or “quadrants”.
            Referring to people as grasshoppers simply means that with God looking
            down on us from heaven, we look tiny. It’s like when you look down from
            an airplane or high building and people look like ants.

            Here’s a scientific explanation for canopy:

            icr DOT org/i/pdf/research/Canopy DOT pdf

            The Bible contains lots of references to numbers, formulas, scientific mentionings (particularly in the Book of Job).

            You should read Newton’s book. He breaks it down quite nicely. 🙂

          • Nofun

            The earth is not a sphere either.

            Circle cannot mean sphere.

            The earth doesn’t have quadrants either.

            “God looking down on us from heaven” So god is in space then where up and down don’t mean much.

            Now we are jumping to Job … what happened to Isaiah.
            Conservapedia is not a sane reference source.

          • Guest

            The Hebrew word is “khug” which means circle, sphere, circuit, or compass, and yes, all circles, spheres, circuits, and compasses (and the earth) has quadrants. Did you not take geometry? 🙂

            God is in heaven, but that doesn’t mean He can’t be with us here on earth in the presence of His Holy Spirit. He’s Triune, and He can be everywhere at once. That’s part of being God. 🙂

            I quoted from Isaiah, but my reference to Job is because the same word “khug” is used.

            The site I linked to isn’t Conservapedia. 🙂 It’s ICR – a science site run by Christians with secular science degrees from Harvard, Princeton, etc. Dr. Damadian, the guy who invented the MRI, is a member there.

          • Nofun

            A circle is not a sphere …if your language regards the 2 are the same you come from a idiots culture.

            Again the earth is not sphere.

            “God is in heaven” Nice dodge, but the god looking DOWN on us from heaven is the old heavenly canopy idea which we know is not true.

            Which is also where the circle of the earth nonsense comes from. The heavenly canopy is the top half of the circle.

            Also if he is Triune (insane notion) then God really did not sacrifice anything with Jesus as Jesus was him and being a god couldn’t be killed anyway.

            Your Isaiah quote still does not still does not have in maths or physics in it except to talk about the circle of the earth on which you can place not mathematics.

            ICR conducts no science and never will. You can’t be objective if you unswervingly believe in a magic god. In science you have to let go of all the old answers and follow the evidence (truth) to the new answers.

            You especially can’t presume something for which there is no evidence … god.

          • Guest

            “Your language”?? Hebrew isn’t “my” language, but it is multi-layered, just like all languages are. Lots of English words have different nuances.

            You don’t know what a canopy is, do you? 🙂

            And of course Jesus Christ, as God (one part of the Triune God) could be killed, IF He laid down His life willingly. He’s sovereign, remember? He can do anything He wants to.

            Indeed, ICR DOES conduct science. Every single member there is a secularly-educated scientist, often teaching at secular universities and colleges, and writing about science in scientific peer-reviewed journals. As aforementioned, Dr. Damadian, the inventor of the MRI, is a supporter of ICR. Are you going to claim he does no science? 🙂

            As far as there being evidence of God, creation is evidence, just like a poem is proof of a poet, or a piece of artwork is proof of an artist. YOU are evidence of a Creator, because you are a creature. To deny God is to deny yourself.

          • Nofun

            So one part of you triune can be killed? But he wasn’t was he?
            If a man resurrected himself that would be impressive but a god doing it is no biggy.

            If you join ICR you have stopped doing science no matter what your previous career was. You are now trying to prove a pre-judgement based on an entity with no evidence. There is no possibility of producing science that way.

            Yea, but we have rational explanation for everything we see which doen’t require a god. You claim to be having a personal relationship with god the entity, not his creation….. where is the evidence of god the entity …and why is he hiding.

          • Guest

            God came in human form, so of course He could be killed, but as proof that He was God, He rose again.

            You are wrong about ICR. Dr. Damadian joined prior to inventing the MRI. 🙂 All scientists on board are still working as scientists, including at NASA.

            There is no rational explanation for the world or for you or me or any of us without God.

          • Nofun

            If he was a god then the human form was just a disguise and he was not in any danger of being killed.

            Inventing machine has nothing to do with understanding biology, geology etc. You can be smart in one field and a complete dunce in all others as Carson is showing.

            Yes, there is a rational explanations for nearly everything before the first few billionths of second of the big bang. If you keep on using your god as a placeholder for ignorance, i.e God of the Gaps we will tend to get squashed when the gaps close.

          • Guest

            a.) It’s not a disguise. He can be fully God and fully human if He chooses to be. That’s part of what makes Him God – He can do whatever He likes and has the power to do it. He chose to die in order that our sins be paid for because the only way to get rid of sins is with the shedding of blood of a perfect sacrifice.

            b.) You do know that in order to invent something like the MRI one has to be good in science, right? 🙂 And ICR is composed of scientists. Just about every important scientific discovery was made by a Christian or Jew who believes in a literal 6-day young earth Creation.

            c.) Where did the big bang originate from?

          • Nofun

            a) So he is immune to logic even christian logic. That’s handy.
            Does that mean he didn’t have a soul since he was a god man and not a god made man?

            You are responsible for your actions you can’t pack up your sins on someone else and claim they don’t exist.

            Don’t you think original sin is the bible inventing a problem that doesn’t exist and then making itself the cure.

            b) What would an engineer know about biology? …nothing. Sorry scientists come in all varieties, religions and ethnicities . Only fundamentalists believe in bible errancy and the ridiculous notion of a young earth.

            c) We don’t know yet. Who created your god? Why aren’t you worshiping him?

          • Guest

            Speaking of logic, do you know who William Lane Craig is? He’s a
            philosopher. He answers a lot of your questions. If you have anymore,
            simply type his name into Youtube and you will find a slew of videos
            that should help you.

            www DOT youtube DOT com/watch?v=f_vO6H-iIvM

            www DOT youtube DOT com/watch?v=a2OnY4d_1Is

          • Meepestos

            I wonder if he had looked down over the southern hemisphere who would have been the chosen people?

          • Nofun

            This is just Horus … Mithra is closer. Its a cracking story but you are not supposed to believe it.

            1.Both were conceived of a virgin.

            2.Both were the “only begotten son” of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)

            3.Horus’s mother was Meri, Jesus’s mother was Mary.

            4.Horus’s foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus’s foster father was Joseph.

            5.Both foster fathers were of royal descent.

            6.Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).

            7.Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel. Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his
            birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).

            8.Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.

            9.Both births were announced by angels

            10.Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.

            11.Horus was visited at birth by “three solar deities” and Jesus was visited by “three wise men”.

            12.After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.

            13.To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph
            to “arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.”

            14.When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored.
            When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.

            15.Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual. Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.

            16.Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.

            17.Both were baptized at age 30.

            18.Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.

            19.Both Anup and John were later beheaded.

            20.Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.

            21.Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.

            22.Both have 12 disciples.

            23.Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.

            24.Horus “stilled the sea by his power.” Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, “Peace, be still.”

            25.Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus
            from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in
            Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)

            26.Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, “house of Anu”).

            27.Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount.

            28.Both were crucified.

            29.Both were crucified next to two thieves.

            30.Both were buried in a tomb.

            31.Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back “three days” later (although Friday night to Sunday morning is hardly three days).

            32.Both had their resurrection announced by women.

            33.Both are supposed to return for a 1000-year reign.

            34.Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means “anointed one”).

            35.Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the
            winnower.

            36.Both are associated with the zodiac sign of Pisces (the fish).

            37.Both are associated with the symbols of the fish, the beetle, the vine, and the shepherd’s crook.

            38.Horus was born in Anu (“the place of bread”) and Jesus was born in Bethlehem (“the house of bread”).

            39.”The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: ‘Out of Egypt have I called my son.'”

            40.Both were transfigured on the mount.

            41.The catacombs of Rome have pictures of the infant Horus being held by his mother, not unlike the modern-day images of “Madonna and Child.”
            Noted English author C. W. King says that both Isis and Mary are called “Immaculate”.

            42.Horus says: “Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power.” And Jesus says: “Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once.” Horus was identified with the Tau (cross).

          • The Watcher

            The extent and virulence of your anti-religion stance reveals a very strong, underlying mental illness.

          • Nofun

            Yea, its called reality acceptance.

            Good to see you get around.

          • WGB

            I have been saying that since my first exchange with the same two-named troll. lol

          • Guest

            Yeah, you’re the same person. That was already debunked. Talk about believing in superstitions and fantasies! 🙂 You do know it’s been admitted that was fabricated to discredit Christianity, don’t you? Of course you do. You were already shown that by another poster, yet you keep repeating it. Why? Aren’t you interested in truth? Are you always this gullible?

          • Nofun

            You can read the Egyptian Book of The Dead and see for yourself instead of just believing other people’s desperate denials and conspiracy theories.

            Brave enough? … or are you going to stick with believing it all a ant-christian conspiracy.

          • Guest

            That was already debunked by another poster. Why repeat something that was disproven Nofun/Nogods?

          • Nofun

            Who debunked it. You can’t pray or argue away the Egyptian Book of The Dead. Read it and realize that the Jesus story is a just a legend repeated over and over again with different characters and settings.

          • Guest

            Sure they did. You know, you’re a boring troll. You just make stuff up that’s easily disproven.

          • WGB

            lol, because he has nothing else to do.

          • The Watcher

            The hell is your faithless, “progressive” philosophy.

          • Nofun

            I don’t have any such philosophy.

          • The Watcher

            Most of us are waiting for that final moment for you. The world will be a much better place.

          • Nofun

            Let that religious hate out …..it will complete your journey to the dark side Luke.

          • Nogods

            Do you think you are a brainwashed member of a doomsday cult?

          • The Watcher

            You’re not saved. You’re totally lost.

          • Nofun

            Lost = ignoring reality.

        • WGB

          He needs Jesus Christ. He likes to torment, harass, and troll Christians.

          • Nofun

            I am motivated by love only.

            I can’t stand seeing closed frightened minds and people wasting the only life they get.

          • WGB

            You’re a liar. You’re motivated by hate, your mental illness, a need for medication, and your multiple personalities for whom you’ve created individual disqus accounts for.

          • Nofun

            Do you really think there is only one atheist in the world?

            I don’t have multiple accounts ….. that is a lie. You better get forgiveness for that lie.

            The life unexamined is not worth living.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            Nofun will one day see the other side of life. And find out that this was not the only life we get. Eternity is a long time.

          • WGB

            Amen.

    • Nogods

      She is mocking your superstitious beliefs; you really think they are true.

      Isn’t it interesting that the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders defines “delusional” as “A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence.” Superstitious religious beliefs fit precisely within that definition. But under pressure from religious organizations, the editors made a specific exclusion for religion. But crazy is still crazy.

      • Guest

        No one is talking about superstition. You’re not “nofun” under a new handle because you got embarrassed, are you?

        • Nogods

          Believe magical spirits are real is a superstitious belief – and one that has ALWAYS been wrong.

          • Guest

            Your grammar is a bit off, but I assume you mean that “believing that magical spirits are real is a superstitious belief”? If so, indeed, magical spirits are fairy tales. Magic isn’t real. Why are you fixated on magic? Spent too much time reading Harry Potter novels? By the way, why did you switch your handle?

          • Nogods

            Isn’t it interesting to think that there is just as much evidence supporting the existence of flying purple fairies that orbit the earth as there is supporting the existence of your god. So if it is irrational to believe that purple fairies are real, it is also irrational to think gods are real and to organize your life around them.

          • Guest

            Except that Jesus Christ is an historical figure.

            So why are you double posting here? Not enough fun trolling under just one name?

          • Nogods

            The magical aspects of Christianity are obviously false. Here are simple facts you MUST ADMIT ARE TRUE:

            1. YOU MUST ADMITTED THAT AT LEAST SOME OF THE SUPERNATURAL CLAIMS MADE IN THE BIBLE ARE FALSE. This would include such things as the story of Adam and Eve (science is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that Adam and Eve were not the first humans and there is no evidence or reason to believe they ever existed. So the entire story of jesus is built upon this false premiss.) and noah (there is NO evidence of a world-wide flood let alone one of the proportion or duration as described in the bible.) If this is true, it places into question ALL supernatural claims. And the resurrection of Jesus is really the ONLY claim upon which his divinity is based.

            2. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT THE BIBLICAL ACCOUNTS OF THE RESURRECTION ARE INTERNALLY INCONSISTENT. This again is evidence that the accounts are unreliable. As an example, did Jesus ascended into heaven the day of his claimed resurrection (Luke 24:51), or 40 days later? (Acts 1:3). When Jesus died, did an earthquake open all the graves unleashing a zombie apocalypse (as recounted in Matthew). Why is that fact completely ignored by the other gospels. Was Jesus crucified on the day before Passover (John) or the day after (the other three.) Three gospels give three different versions of the last words of Jesus. Matthew says that Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea. Acts claim that he was buried by Jewish strangers and their rulers. The four gospels conflict in their account of the number of women that came to the tomb Easter morning. Matthew and Mark claim that one woman was at the tomb. Luke and John claim there were two. Matthew claims that the tomb was not open when they got there. The other three say that the tomb was open. There are many more contradictions. And they all can’t be right. But they all can be wrong.

            3. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT THE EARLY ROMANS REGULARLY DEIFIED MERE MORTALS. The early Romans were ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that men could become gods and gods could become men long before the time of Jesus. Early roman gods included Julius Cesar, Caesar Augustus, and Romulus. Almost ALL roman emperors were ultimately declared gods. This supernatural claim was bestowed upon virtually ANYONE who showed some type of special skill or authority. Thus, bestowing this title upon Jesus would be NOTHING unusual.

            And as it turned out, the early Romans were ABSOLUTELY WRONG about all these other gods. But these were the EXACT SAME people that claimed that jesus rose from the dead and proclaimed him a god, just as they had proclaimed many others before and after him. And just as these early Romans were ABSOLUTELY WRONG in their evaluation of the evidence as to the existence of all the other roman gods, they were ABSOLUTELY WRONG in their evaluation of the evidence about your god and his resurrection.

            4. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT THE EARLY ROMANS ERRONEOUSLY BELIEVED IN THE EXISTENCE OF MANY GODS. Romans were ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that Jupiter was a real god. They believed that for a thousand years, even in the face of uncontrovertibly evidence that their polytheistic beliefs were wrong. But as you must admit, the early Romans were ABSOLUTELY WRONG about all these other gods. But these were the EXACT SAME people that claimed that jesus rose from the dead and was a god. But this is the EXACT same claim they had made about many gods before him. And just as these early Romans were ABSOLUTELY WRONG in their evaluation of the evidence as to the existence of all the other roman gods, they were ABSOLUTELY WRONG in their evaluation of the evidence about your god and his resurrection.

            5. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT THE EARLY ROMANS ATTRIBUTED SUPERNATURAL EXPLANATIONS TO OBVIOUSLY NON SUPERNATURAL EVENTS. At the time jesus arrived, the early Roman culture was awash in erroneous supernatural beliefs. The early Romans attributed supernatural causes to natural events. This was typical of virtually all pre-modern cultures. The cultural acceptance of these beliefs was further reinforced by the government and were just a simple part of every day life. Thus, attributing a supernatural explanation to almost any event was nothing unusual. This would include attributing supernatural explanations to stories related to Jesus.

            6. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT THE STORIES DOCUMENTING THE RESURRECTION WERE NOT MEMORIALIZED UNTIL 30 TO 90 YEARS AFTER THE CLAIMED EVENTS HAPPENED AND INVARIABLY DO NOT ACCURATELY DOCUMENT THE EVENTS. Without a doubt, the oral tradition that perpetuated the stories was embellished and modified as it was passed along. The inconsistencies in the gospels clearly demonstrates this.

            7. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT JESUS WAS NOT REGARDED AS A GOD DURING HIS LIFE TIME BUT WAS ONLY ELEVATED TO THAT STATUS DECADES AFTER HIS DEATH. It was not until the 4th century that the roman ruling class defined the supernatural nature of Jesus.

            8. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT THERE ARE NO EXTRA BIBLICAL ACCOUNTS OF THE RESURRECTION THOUGH THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF HIS PERSONA AND THE PENULTIMATE EVENT THAT MADE HIM A GOD. While there are extra biblical accounts referencing Jesus, NONE of them reference ANY supernatural aspects of his life. Though one would suspect that if they were true, they would have been the focus of any extra biblical accounts.

            9. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT CRUCIFIXION WAS COMMON IN THE EARLY ROMAN EMPIRE AND THAT ONLY ONE BODY EVIDENCING DEATH BY CRUCIFIXION HAS EVER BEEN FOUND. Detailed historical records document that during the early Roman Empire, THOUSANDS of people were crucified. And of those THOUSANDS that were crucified, only ONE body has EVER been discovered. If a missing body is evidence of resurrection, then THOUSANDS of other people have also rose from the dead.

            10. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS ARE ONE OF THE MOST UNRELIABLE FORMS OF EVIDENCE. Empirical studies have consistently shown that eye witness accounts, while highly valued, are the most unreliable form of evidence. This is especially true when the claimed events occurred in the prescientific age and involve an uneducated and illiterate population easily swayed by claims of the supernatural. To this day, comparable indigenous populations are easily convinced of all kinds of comparably ridiculous claims. This fact is equally true of highly educated people living today.

            11. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT PEOPLE DIE EVERY DAY HARBORING MISTAKEN BELIEFS. In defense of the resurrection, Christians often ask, why would the disciples of Jesus sacrificed their lives over a belief they knew was false. But that is simply the wrong question to ask. The disciples of Jesus believed Jesus rose from the dead. But their belief was just wrong. So the disciples of Jesus were willing to sacrifice their lives for a MISTAKEN BELIEF. This happens every day. Just ask ISIS members about that. They think they are fighting for a god that you know isn’t real. You also know that there will be no 72 virgins waiting for them. And just like the followers of Jesus, the members of ISIS are willing to die for a mistaken belief.

          • Guest

            *yawn*

          • Nogods

            Keep that willful ignorance alive!

          • WGB

            He must be grounded and angry with his Christian parents who don’t support his sinful lifestyle. lol 😂. I don’t even read his comments.

          • WGB

            Crazy boy did the same thing to me, lol 😂. In fact, he is STILL sending alternating hands to troll people with, hahaha. One minute I was receiving insulting comments from one name and the next rude comments were coming from a similar name, lol😂. How pathetic must a person be to create multiple handles just to troll Christians, lol.

          • Guest

            Yeah, i think I spotted a third account today. 🙂

  • Susan

    God is love, but don’t be deceived God is also not mocked.

    • Nofun

      God is love … but if you mock him he will burn you forever.
      Seems a kind of narcissist bully.

      • The Watcher

        You seem to enjoy mocking people on this Chritian website. Tell us…. Were you born Jewish?

        • Nofun

          Not mocking ……Just pointing out realities ….just saving

    • Nogods

      Isn’t jesus just like Hitler: Hitler murdered all those that didn’t believe in him. But he took good care of his friends. And just like Hitler, Christians believe that Jesus will murder all those that don’t believe in him. But he will take good care of his friends. So if you are a sane and rational person who would never follow Hitler, why would you follow Jesus?

    • WGB

      Amen sister.

  • Mike Spencer

    Seriously people. Mock away! Especially Christianity, we can take it. You see, believing that the universe magically arose and organized itself to the point of life springing into existence….well you might as well believe in the spaghetti monster as believe in that. As far as mocking religion in general is concerned, I’m all for it, and I regularly join you. However, mocking actual Christianity, that’s actually predicted in scripture as we are told that the world sees the preaching of the cross as foolishness, so the Bible predicts your behavior. Now, I wouldn’t stand on that evidence alone, but I’m inclined to believe that based on all we know about intelligence, to conclude that non-intelligence gives rise to intelligence is pastafarianism at its most religious.

  • JAMES A. WHITE

    Thinking themselves wise. They became as fools.

    • LeeRyder

      Christians think they are wise as well.

      • JAMES A. WHITE

        Christians are wise for choosing God. True wisdom is only found in the personification of wisdom Jesus Christ. Furthermore, Christians are not going around mocking others with bowls on their heads. Its sad how deluded this person is.

        • Nofun

          Whats is wise about inflating a faith construct?

          They like, many people, just want to save people from religion and help stop them from wasting the only life they get pretending to be someone they are not.

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            There is difference in know Jesus and having religion first of all. Further, thinking themselves wise in their own eyes they became as fools. Putting a object on one’s head is foolish and about as backwards as it gets.

    • Nofun

      You mean the bible says believe the bible …… thank jebus that is not circular thinking.

      • JAMES A. WHITE

        I dont have a clue who jebus is. If that is your god or something good luck to you. It sounds like something out of the movie deliverance. Finally, what makes you think the Bible is not worthy of belief. Have you studied it for a year or a month in serious study ever? I have and can tell you the scriptures are the word of God and can change your life. For they reveal the truth that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He is the only way for salvation. There is no other name under heaven whereby men can be saved but through the Lord Jesus CHrist. I came to the end of myself and cried out to Jesus. i can tell you He is real. I know Him and He knows me. Good luck.

        • Nofun

          Its is from the Simpson’s.

          Read it. its nonsense and not even original the Jesus story is a rewrite of the Egyptian Horus and Persian Mithra beliefs.

          But that is not what you said. You quoted the bible saying people are fools who don’t believe the bible. Do you really not see that is circular thinking.

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            You are wrong. First of all the story of Horus is not even remotely similar to Jesus. Also, the mithra cults did not come around until hundreds of years after Jesus. Further, the Bible gives prophecy of Jesus’ coming Isaiah 53, Psalm 22, and many others. In fact, Jesus CHrist fulfilled over 300 prophecies in the Old Testament. Also, Jesus is historical validated. We have Roman, Jewish, and other sources that prove aspects of the narrative of the Lord Jesus Christ. Finally, people do not die for myth. Paul was beheaded, Peter crucified, James murdered, Andrew Crucified. All but one disciple was murdered. John was exiled which is no picnic. Also, the writings of the New Testament are very early. We have portions of Mark that are pieces of copies from 69-80 A.D. Which means this had to be written in about 50 A.D. or earlier to be so widespread. Since Mark was early this means all the other gospels were early as Mark is the first. In fact, we have a portion of scripture of John that dates to 94 A.D. Which was about the accepted date for John. Now it is believed John was likely written in 80 A.D. Furthermore, we know Paul’s epistles and Peter’s were all written between the 40s and 69 A.D. Finally, in 1 Corinthians Paul mentions that there were 500 witnesses who saw Jesus at once after his resurrection and mentions all the Apostles and his brothers seeing. I might also add the first people in all the gospels to see Jesus alive again were women. Women were not used as eye witness in Jewish society and even in Greco- Roman society were were considered suspect in the court of law. Yet, the gospel writers all have women seeing Jesus alive. No myth or fabricated story have these facts. As C. S. Lewis said the gospels are far more eloquently written then any myth and scream of authenticity. He should have known being a former atheist and expert in myth. The evidence points to the fact Jesus lived, died, and arose. It is insulting to suggest foolish myth especially since many have died as Martyrs for Christ. In fact, Christians are those most persecuted people in the world. yet, they refuse to give up their faith. Why? Because they have the real deal. This world is fleeting and one day will be gone. Jesus is the real deal and all who believe in Him will have eternal life. In closing, one big question why did the Jewish leaders and Roman leaders not stifle the Christian movement? Why did they let it fester and grow? Answer, because they could not. There were eyewitnesses, and evidence to beat them back.

          • Nofun

            By a paragraph for Jebus sake.

            Just read the Egyptian Book of the Dead yourself. It is blindingly obvious it is the Jesus story.

            There is no first accounts for Jesus from the first century. All the nonsense you bring up is bracketed by “thought to be” and “was likely”. None of it is accepted by secular historians.

            In the life times of Buddha and Mohammad there is a lot a collaborative evidence from a variety of sources that they lived … Jesus not so much.

            The best they can come up with is some third hand heresay about Jesus’s brother in a letter.

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            I know all about that nonsense and none of them are even remotely related to the Gospel. Jesus is the way period!

          • Nofun

            So you read the Egyptian Book of the Dea?

            Jesus is just faith construct rewrite. Embrace rationality and reality.

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He is more real then anything on this planet. After all he created it all! That is reality!

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            Big difference in the so called myths you mention Jesus Christ was and is real. He had apostles and many who died saying Jesus died and arose again. Further, the stories are not even comparable to the gospel of Christ. Finally, most of the tales come after Christ such as the Mithra cult and Christ is a historical figure. The others are not!!!!

    • Nogods

      Isn’t it odd to think that there are an infinite variety of things the christian god could do that would immediately and unequivocally convince everyone of his existence. Yet, he chooses to not do any of them. Do you think it is because he is identical to all the other gods we now regard as mythology?

      • JAMES A. WHITE

        Why should God do anything to prove his existence to you? Also perhaps He has and your just not looking or interested. Your name “no gods” kind of says it all. Your close minded to the existence of God. Yet, it matters not what you think in this regard. Does God exist? Its a question one should seriously consider and not just deny or spitefully not consider the possibility. In fact, its sad to die and find out there is a God. I pity people who go through life without faith in God. I really do. It must be difficult and unpleasant to think this is all there is to life. Blessings and Good luck.

        • Nogods

          “Why should God do anything to prove his existence to you?”

          Isn’t it odd to think that there are an infinite variety of things the christian god could do that would immediately and unequivocally convince everyone of his existence. And if he did ANY ONE OF THEM, NO ONE WOULD GO TO HELL. Yet, he chooses to not do any of them. Do you think it is because he is identical to all the other gods we now regard as mythology?

          “Also perhaps He has and your just not looking or interested.”

          The supposed all-powerful creator of the universe needs ME to look INTERESTED before his magic works? That is hilarious!!! Isn’t that how the magic of Zeus works as well?

          “Your name “no gods” kind of says it all. Your close minded to the existence of God.”

          Here is a short list of gods you could choose to worship. Tell me what ones you think are real. I really hope that you aren’t closed minded to their existence – hypocrite: Angus, Belenos, Brigid, dana, Lugh, Dagda, Epona, Aphrodite, Apollo, Ares, Artemis, Atehna, Demeter, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Gaia, Hades, Hekate, Helios, Hephaestus, Hera, hermes, Hestia, Pan, Poseidon, Selene, Uranus, Zeus, Mathilde, Elves, Jesus, Eostre, Frigg, Hretha, Saxnot, Shef, Thuno, Tir, Weyland, Woden, Alfar, Balder, Beyla, Bil, Bragi, Byggvir, Dagr, Disir, Eir, Forseti, Freya, Freyr, Frigga, Heimdall, Hel, Hoenir, Idunn, Jord, Lofn, Loki, Mon, Njord, Norns, Nott, Odin, Ran, saga, Sif, Siofn, Skadi, Snotra, Sol, Syn, Ull, Thor, Tyr, Var, Vali, Vidar, Vor, Black Shuck, Herne, Jack in the Green, Holda, Nehalennia, Nerthus, endovelicus, Ataegina, Runesocesius, Apollo, Bacchus, Ceres, Cupid, Diana, Janus, Juno, Jupiter, Maia, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Neptune, Pluto, Plutus, Proserpina, Venus, Vesta, Vulcan, Attis, Cybele, El-Gabal, Isis, Mithras, Sol Invictus, Endovelicus, Anubis, Aten, Atum, Bast, Bes, Geb, Hapi, Hathor, Heget, Horus, Imhotep, Isis, Khepry, Khnum, Maahes, Ma’at, Menhit, Mont, Naunet, Neith, Nephthys, Nut, Osiris, Ptah, ra, Sekhmnet, Sobek, Set, Tefnut, Thoth, An, Anshar, Anu, Apsu, Ashur, Damkina, Ea, Enki, Enlil, Ereshkigal, Nunurta, Hadad, Inanna, Ishtar, Kingu, Kishar, Marduk, Mummu, Nabu, Nammu, Nanna, Nergal, Ninhursag, Ninlil, Nintu, Shamash, Sin, Tiamat, Utu, Mitra, Amaterasu, Susanoo, Tsukiyomi, Inari, Tengu, Izanami, Izanagi, Daikoku, Ebisu, Benzaiten, Bishamonten, Fu.kurokuju, Jurojin, Hotei, Quetzalcoatl, Tlaloc, Inti, Kon, Mama Cocha, Mama Quilla, Manco Capac, Pachacamac, Viracoc.ha, or Zaramama.

          There are thousands of other gods you could choose to worship. And you are CERTAIN they are ALL fictional. And that makes us very similar: we are both atheists, I just go one god further – yours.

          “Yet, it matters not what you think in this regard. Does God exist? Its a question one should seriously consider and not just deny or spitefully not consider the possibility.”

          Isn’t it odd to think that there are an infinite variety of things the christian god could do that would immediately and unequivocally convince everyone of his existence. Yet, he chooses to not do any of them. Do you think it is because he is identical to all the other gods we now regard as mythology?

          So now let’s see how open your mind is. Tell me what I could show you that would convince you that your god is identical to all the other gods you could choose to worship, but are CERTAIN are not real? Just ONE thing? One small thing? Because their are an INFINITE variety of things you could show me that would instantly and unequivocally convince me that your god is actually real. Its a question one should seriously consider and not just deny or spitefully not consider the possibility. Brainwashed cult members can never think of anything.

          “In fact, its sad to die and find out there is a God.”

          I just can’t figure out why anyone would choose to worship a god that threatens to torture you if you actually use the mind he supposedly has given you. Most people are opposed to sadistic dictators; Christians claim to have a “relationship” with one – and to love him.

          “I pity people who go through life without faith in God. I really do.”

          I pity ignorant fools and fanatics. Faith is a fancy word for wishful thinking. It is the absolute lowest standard of evidence as it requires NO evidence. There is just as much evidence supporting the existence of flying purple fairies that orbit the earth as there is supporting the existence of your god. So if it is irrational to believe that purple fairies are real, it is also irrational to think gods are real and to organize your life around them.

          “It must be difficult and unpleasant to think this is all there is to life. Blessings and Good luck.”

          What a dumb comment. This life is amazing. It is sad that your life is so pathetic that you can only find meager hope in an ancient superstitious belief.

          • http://maxfur.com/ Max T. Furr

            Good luck on getting any thoughtful answer. They have none. Their minds are in lock-down. I know because I’ve been there.

            When I was in high school, there was no argument that would have convinced me that the Bible wasn’t the word of a god. I even took Bible classes that were offered at the time. Evolution, however, was not mentioned either in science classes, including biology.

            I was fortunate enough, however, to have come across this strange thing called “logic,” and another called “integrity.” Willful ignorance became repugnant to me and, subsequently, so did self-delusion. Thus, I didn’t shrug off the internal inconsistencies I found in reading the Bible and I found there to be many.

            The finial argument that impelled me to leave religion behind came after high school. Three Mormons attempted to convert me. It was my own argument that did the trick. I asked them, “How do you know you are right?” They all three answered, “I know in my heart I am right.” I replied, “Well, so do the Hindu, the Muslims, the Catholics, every person of every religion believes himself to be right.”

            Ironic that it was my own reply to their argument that made me realize that I had no more right to believe that I had the sacred truth than anyone else on Earth. I’d finally come to the conclusion that what one believes to be sacred truth is most often what he was TAUGHT to believe from tothood, and that teaching was further nourished by the society into which he was born.

            This is irrefutable logic, but completely lost on the hard fundamentalist.

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            Jesus came and died for you. He is the one you should be looking too. If anyone wants to know God. They have to come through the Son of God Jesus Christ. I believe if anyone ask in sincerity for revelation Jesus will come to them in some way. The problem is most will not do this, because they desire not Jesus or God. They desire to live as they are for self. God requires us to give our lives to Him. But I know if one truly wants Jesus He will come them and in no way cast them out. Jesus is there for the asking to reveal himself to them. But they have to want it and ask.

          • Nogods

            Millions of starving children have asked for Jesus’s help. He just ignores them. What gives?

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            Really? What gives is he expects us to help. Yet many want to sit around and blame God for the ailments of the world. ALso, how much food has been sent to place. Yet warlords get it. Why is that? God gives us free will to help others or not. Many do not. They have the poor right in their own cities and refuse. One of Jesus chief teachings was for people to help the poor. I as a his follower do my part. My church has a great ministry to the poor and we send aid beyond our city and state into Africa and S. America and Poland. I have a friend who goes to the Ukraine to help the poor children there and does great work. he also goes to S. Africa. My church is planning a mission trip to Chicago poor side in March. We go to Mexico and we feed the homeless. We also have a ministry called His helping hands that gives food, furniture, and even cars to those in poverty. We also do Burgers, Bibles and blessings once a month. Where we feed the poor, give them clothes and well Bibles. We have the Lord’s Diner here by the catholic diocese. They feed people in two locations every night of the week. We have several other places and several other groups. The problem is not Jesus or the church. But man’s free will. No God does not ignore them. But he does expect all people even unbelievers to help the poor!

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            Jesus came and died for you.

            Hundreds of thousands of people have died for my freedom. Even innocent Muslims have died from much worse torture than crucifixion at the hands of Americans under the orders of Cheney-Bush.

            It is probable that you believe what you believe because you were taught from tothood to believe it. A Muslim was taught from tothood to believe Islam. A Hindu was taught from tothood to believe in Hinduism. And all of these people believe just as fervently as you. So, what makes your belief true and theirs false?

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            First of all do you even know what crucifixion was? It was a brutal form of death. Also a person was often dead before they were nailed to the cross. Why? Because of the beating. The movie Passion of the Christ did not even come close to the brutality. Although more close then most depictions. Second, Cheney Bush have been gone for going on 8 years. How many has Obama killed? Just with drones. You mention other religions. Well good one. Did you know the other religions were often by force first of all. If one converts from Islam or even Hinduism they can be killed. In fact, the most persecuted religion in the world are Christians. Christians who have lived thousands of years 2,000 to be exact have been systematically wiped out by Muslim extremism. Now get to your other question. First off it is a logical fallacy to ask the question why Jesus over Islam etc. Yet, I can easy answer this question. First of all, many Muslims have come to Jesus. They have had dreams and visions and believed in Jesus CHrist as a result. None of them believed in Jesus as God before but now they do. Second, similar things have happened to Hindu people. Third, I am actually part German Jewish. My Jewish family believed the truth claims of Jesus and I came to faith at age 11. So yes people convert all the time. Also you said Jesus died for me. Yes and he did for all. Jesus words, ” For God so loved the world that whosoever believeth in Him shall never perish but have everlasting life” John 3:16, KJV. Jesus also said He was the way, the truth and the life that there is no other way to the Father. Further, Peter Jesus’ disciple said there is no other name under heaven whereby men can be saved but by the man Christ Jesus. Now all religions are not the same and all religions and Philosophies are not equal. No matter how one says so. The difference is the truth claims. Islam opposes just about all the teachings of Jesus and deny His incarnation, death on the cross etc. Hindu people say Jesus was just a teacher but worship literally millions of gods. A tree stump can be god in Hinduism. Yet, I am reminded of the verse out of Romans which says men are without excuse. That basically the invisible attributes of God can be seen and mankind is without excuse. In other words, all mankind can come to God through CHrist. If one searches for God then they will find Him. I am reminded of a S. Korean pastor who worshiped idols and was into cultural magic. His gods could not help him in his sick bed in the hospital. He cried out to them and was dying. He finally cried out for the real God to send someone his way whoever that God was. No less then an hour later a lady came and presented the gospel to him. He accepted Christ was healed and now leads the largest church in S. Korea. His story is not just one. But one of millions. Paul the Apostle Himself met Jesus on the road to Damascus. I met Jesus during a period of rebellion. I can tell you why all other beliefs are false. One reason Jesus Christ. One can believe a chicken can fly with ducks but will be wrong. Jesus truth claims are tried and proven. He is alive and all anyone has to do is ask Him for revelation in a sincere manner and they will meet him in some way! But they have to want it! He will not reveal to anyone who does not desire it.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            I see that you did not respond to my “irrefutable” argument about virtually all adherents to any religion believing what they were taught to believe. They were all taught to believe their’s is truth, and the constructs of those religions have nothing at all to do with one being better than another. You believe yours is better because that is what you were taught to believe.

            But to your latest “arguments”: I did not say that crucifixion was not brutal. In fact, many people were crucified in the same manner as the story suggests was Jesus. Christians, themselves, developed many brutal methods of torture and some lasting far longer than three days. How painful were they? How do you compare?

            First off it is a logical fallacy to ask the question why Jesus over Islam etc.

            James, an open question cannot be an argument, valid or fallacious. It is a question asking for an argument. You can find good sites on the Internet where you can learn the argumentative fallacies. Believe me, it is best to do a little research than not, especially if you are trying to argue with someone who has. It’s like going to a battle of wits, unarmed. (I don’t mean to condescend, but to be quite frank and perfectly clear).

            The movie Passion of the Christ did not even come close to the brutality.

            Logically, you cannot know that. This assertion is a baseless. But even if you are right, it does not prove that Jesus’ suffering was greater than anyone else, nor does it prove divinity.

            Second, Cheney-Bush have been gone for going on 8 years.

            So, its irrelevant that Cheney-Bush set up a gulag archipelago of black site torture camps? But you are writing of Roman torture 2000 years ago. Wouldn’t that be irrelevant as well?

            How many has Obama killed? A heck of a lot fewer than Cheney-Bush.

            Did you know the other religions were often by force first of all.

            What do you mean, “other religions” used force?” Have you not studied, objectively, world history and the origins and spread of religion? The Christians, before the Enlightenment–and for a time afterward–were all about the forced spreading of Christianity.

            Ever heard of the inquisitions? Auto da Fes? Witch hunts? The brutal murders of the Anabaptist for their crime of believing in double baptism? Live burning of religious and political enemies at the stake? The Crusades (especially the Children’s Crusade)? The treacherous Francisco Pizarro? Pope Urban II’s declaration of Holy War?

            The list goes on and on and on ad infinitum. I don’t make it a practice of recommending books, but James A. Haught’s Holy Horrors can be very enlightening in terms of Christian atrocities, as well as many in other religions.

            Then there are the OT stories of ripping apart pregnant women. Yahweh-ordered genocide in Canaan. The brutal murder of 42 children for teasing a man for his bald head. Killing 70,000 innocent warriors because David held a census. Yahweh’s very on fun game of hail-stoning to death of the fleeing armies of the five kings. And at the root of it all (as Christians believe); the monstrous act of Yahweh’s creation of evil in the first place.

            And, how do you reconcile John 3:16 with the genocide of Canaan? Remember, the Canaanites did not know were not given Yahweh’s laws–the Jews were given the laws on their way to Canaan. Besides that, how does a “loving” god choose to communicate with only one group of people and call them “his people?”

            But, I refer only to the biblical stories. Science can find no evidence that the biggest ones ever happened (e.g., the genocide of Canaan, the “great flood,” the Tower of Babel).

            Many Muslims have “come to Christ?”

            I suppose that you didn’t know that Islam is the fastest growing religion (by conversion) in the world. Therefore, by ratio, more people are coming to Mohammad than to Jesus.

            You are not vetting the “facts” that you want to believe.

            In any case, numbers of believers or converts have nothing at all to do with truth. To believe that is to hold on to the logical fallacy of the argument from popularity. Advertisers use this fallacy a lot, e.g., more people by Fords than any other vehicle, therefore, Ford is the best vehicle. Not necessarily. It only suggests that Ford has the best (most appealing) advertising.

            Circular argument: You suggest that one must first believe, then he will see. Well, that could apply to any belief where there is no objective evidence for its support.

            I can tell you why all other beliefs are false. One reason Jesus Christ.

            Since you cannot see the utter nonsense of that statement, then I think we have come to the end of this discussion. I presented direct logical arguments and facts, but you have not attempted to refute them with logical arguments, but argue instead that your beliefs are right and all others are wrong–because you believe yours are right. (sorry, but I must shake my head in amazement)

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            I was not taught to have faith. My faith has come through trusting and experiencing Jesus Christ. I know as a person. As such I know God in his full Triune being as a person. Furthermore, there is a big difference in head knowledge and knowledge within the will of a person. I know God from within. My life has been guided, lived and saved by Christ. Big difference. By the way, explain the millions of Muslims who have come to Christ claiming of visions and dreams. This phenomena is unique. None of them had an understanding of Christianity nor of belief in Jesus. But they abandon their religion for Christ in the face of death. Also, explain why the Apostles were willing to die saying Jesus was God and alive again. Explain, why many Jews including my ancestors left their faith to become followers of Jesus. Why did they abandon it? Is there something to this Christ Jesus? I think so. I know Him, I have experienced him and can tell millions of reasons why I believe. But chiefly because I know him personally!

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            I was not taught to have faith.

            That is an equivocation. The point was that virtually every believer believes the religion he was taught from tothood. The subject was religion, not faith.

            So, your parents did not take you to sunday school and church? How did you learn about Christianity? Did you learn the details of other religions as well such that you had a choice which to believe?

            . . . there is a big difference in head knowledge and knowledge within the will of a person.

            I believe you are thinking of objective and subjective truth.

            Objective knowledge entails those things you learn that are independently verifiable such as math, the environment, stars, planets, natural phenomena, etc. Thus, objective knowledge is our closest approximation to actual truth because it is independently verifiable.

            Subjective “knowledge” is something else entirely. It is your opinion gathered/formulated from the external stimuli that has filtered through your sensory array (your five senses), your emotions, and your memory of such past stimuli (what you’ve learned and have been taught in the past). It can be true or false.

            Examples:

            Objective knowledge: You see a bird on a fence post. You ask a friend to look there and tell you what he sees. “I see a bird on that fence post,” he responds. Your sighting has been independently verified.

            Subjective knowledge: A recovering alcoholic is in a room with friends. He suddenly has a bout with the DTs and sees snakes crawling about the floor. Recoiling in fright, he exclaims loudly, “Snakes! Snakes everywhere!” His friends look around, but see no snakes.

            The subjective “truth” is that the man did, indeed, see snakes. He “knows” he saw snakes. Objectively, however, there were no snakes as independently confirmed by his friends. Yet, you will not convince that man that there were no snakes because he saw them and no one can tell him that he didn’t.

            Religion is a subjective truth to all believers. This statement, in itself, does not say that it any one of them is true or false. But each believer in every religion will tell you that his theology is the true one. There is no argument you can make that will convince him otherwise. And that goes for yours as well. A comment I read some time ago goes like this: “When you realize why you reject other religions, then you will know why they reject yours.”

            And, BTW, the number of believers is not an indication of truth. If all the world believed in the truth of a particular proposition, the sheer weight of all that belief, without objective evidence, would lend not a nanogram of truth to the proposition.

            This is the Argument from Popularity. Marketers use it all the time to dupe millions of consumers. Example: “Ten million buyers can’t be wrong, Ford has the best pickup trucks in the nation.” No, not necessarily. Ford may simply have the best advertising agency that uses better fallacious arguments and more entertaining ads.

            In any case, Islam is growing faster than Christianity. But, again, that says nothing at all about the truth of either. Google “The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050” + “Pew research center.”

            Many Jews were forced to renounce their religion by threat of death at the hands of the Christian Church. Many converted anyway. But again, that says nothing about truth.

            You can learn about argumentative fallacies online. Just google “argumentative fallacies.”

            So, you may have experienced “Jesus,” and no one can say you haven’t. But, objectively, it cannot be considered true.

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            No, my dad was not very involved in church. My mother did my faith training. Further, I was unusual in the sense I sought out church meetings and Sunday School. I was there any chance I got. I am thankful for it. But most of all I am thankful for the knowledge of knowing who God is and not being among the lost of the world. God speaks but few listen. Finally, as I said before its not accident Muslims and others are finding Jesus without the aid of missionaries or Bibles. It screams to me God finds those who will believe wherever they are even in foreign nations where Christianity is banned.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            No, my dad was not very involved in church. My mother did my faith training.

            That should not be a “no” to my question. While it is true that your parentS did not take you to church, your PARENT did. And it appears that you were taught no other religion but Christianity.

            I would argue–and it is an irrefutable, logical fact–that had your parent(s) been Muslim and in a Muslim society, you would have been taught only Islam and you would have been just as interested in that. Most likely, you would have grown up with your faith just as strong (or stronger) in Allah as it is now in Yahweh–which was my whole point.

            So, any Muslim likely would claim the very same profound belief as you. In fact, there is virtually nothing you can claim about the merits of Christianity that the Muslim can’t about Islam, including conversions. While former Muslims have converted to Christianity, former Christians have migrated to Islam. And Islam is still the fastest growing religion on earth.

            But, as I’ve mentioned before, popularity (via conversion or parental teaching) is not an argument for truth, and nor is it proof of falsity. I base my social philosophy on logic and facts

            Your argument that Muslims convert to Christianity, then, is offset by Christians converting to Islam. By how much? I can find no figures because of the difficulty of gathering objective information. It is claimed that in China, the population of Christians is growing by family heredity (parent(s) teaching their children, and by conversion. But objective facts are not available. No one knows for sure.

            And by the way, the main reason the Muslim nations tend to be far more militant and some even hostile to Christian nations is because, to the faithful Muslim, Islam is the government. They are theocracies far more dedicated to their god and scriptures, just as many (most?) fundamentalist Christians want America to be.

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            Well try one thing. It will work. Ask Jesus sincerely to reveal His self to you. Seriously ask Jesus Christ if he is real and to reveal it to you some how. Pray or ask it sincerely. If you do then he will. He will come to you somehow. But watch out because then you will be responsible for the info received. Its up to you. But I have found many dont pray the above suggestion, because they actually do not want to believe. They like their lifestyle or sin. Jesus and knowing Him involves life change. But I promise you He will come to you if you seek Him with your heart and soul. Jesus blood cleanses us from all sin….He is the way!

          • Nogods

            Millions of starving children have asked for your gods help. He ignores them all. Why do you think he ignores their pleas but he would perform his magic for me?

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            What have you done to help starving children? Did you ever think we are the answer to prayers? Perhaps we are here to help the poor. In fact, most Christians do good works to help the poor. Also, how do you know they are praying to God or thee God? Perhaps many for their prayers have been answered through christian organizations like the Operation blessing, feed the children, or Samartain’s purse. Or the red cross which was started by Christians. Perhaps someone was fed by one the many churches or homeless shelters that do this outreach. Finally, its easy to blame God. But what are we doing. Are we not supposed to be our brother’s keeper. Does not God in His word expect us to give alms and help the poor. Yes he does. I do and always help others when I can. No pat on my back for it. Because I dont want it. Yet, I do it because I love God and am compelled by Lord Christ to do good for others!

          • Nogods

            Good people do good things. Gods do nothing because they are fictional. Your god doesn’t do anything for the exact same reason Zeus doesn’t do anything. Isn’t that such a simple explanation.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            Nogods, that comment reminds me of a comment from one of the characters in my novel:

            The Graveyard of History is strewn with the bleached bones of dead gods, each and every one laid low by the Broadsword of Disbelief. And for whom shall the requiem play next? It shall play for thee, dear Yahweh, and for all of our gods du jour. For the forgotten gods of antiquity were once the living gods of today and the living gods of the today shall tomorrow be the forgotten gods of antiquity.

            It must be understood, therefore, that universal empathy, peace, and love, can be achieved only through reason, and reason shall reign only when the gravediggers have no more gods to bury. (M. Jefferson Hale, Beyond Paine, 2025)

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            No, it is another logical fallacy. In general Zeus is no different from Baal. God in scripture calls them all false gods or demons in disguise. As far as miracles go. I was healed of a infection as a four year old by being prayed for by Pentecostal preachers. The infection was serious and I could not eat. By the time I got home from the meeting I was healed and eating. Further, I have seen cancer healed including my own mom healed. So, to answer your question my God Yahweh does indeed answer prayers and has done much. One thing he did was send His Son Jesus Christ to die for us on the cross. By the blood of Jesus Christ all who call on the name of Jesus Christ and believe in their heart Christ was raised from the dead shall be saved.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            No, James, that isn’t a logical fallacy. A logical fallacy would be to claim that Muslims converting to Christianity is proof of the truth of Christianity, and that your early emotional attachment to Christianity is as well, as I’ve explained. Logically, any adherent to any god(s) believing religion can claim the very same “proofs” as you.

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            Its not just a claim it is truth. The truth of Christianity is in the founder. Jesus is still alive. Among the evidence include women at the tomb. Why women? Women were not considered a good testimony in both the Jewish and Greco-ROman world. Their testimony was suspect. Yet, the Bible has women at the tomb seeing Jesus alive in all four gospels. Further, all the disciples except John died as Martyrs. However, John was greatly persecuted and exiled to Patmos placed in prison. All the Apostles declared Christ resurrected and never recanted. Why? Why would someone die for a lie unless it was truth. Additionally, the gospels are all early. We know this because we have discovered a fragment of the gospel of Mark that dates to 69 A.D. Since all agree Mark was the first gospel this means . It had to be written in 50 A.D. or even a earlier. Matthew in the Mid 50s and Luke in the 60s A.D. We also know John was likely written in A.D. 80 now instead of the former view of 96 A.D. Because we have found a fragment dating to A.D. 93. These evidences of the early gospels disprove the whole resurrection myth theory from liberal theologians and atheist. In fact, it buries them. Finally, it does all come down to faith. We also know Jesus was seen alive by more then 500 at once. He was also seen by His brothers James and Jude. Both of which once did not believe. But after seeing Jesus became his followers. Yet we have these above evidences and many more that gives us as Christians reasons to know we have not placed our faith blindly but in true TRuth as the great Francis Schaeffer said in response to describing the Bible and its truth. Ultimately, one can choose Christ or not . Its their decision. Yet, we know Jesus gives no other option. He says I am the way, the truth and the life. There is no other way to the Father but by me. In other words, Jesus is it. His life, death on the cross and resurrection were all merit acts for our benefit. As for me I have chosen to follow the narrow path. As St. Francis said, Christ before, Christ beneath, Christ behind me, Christ to all who speak of me, Christ in the very heart of me (My paraphrase)…..Blessings to you.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            I understand that my response will be an exercise in futility, but I do need to refresh my memory of the contradictions.

            Yet, the Bible has women at the tomb seeing Jesus alive in all four gospels.

            Not quite.

            Matthew 28, Only the two Marys (no one else) were met by a angel at the tomb who rolled the stone away and told them Jesus was not there. The angel told the women to go and tell the disciples. Upon doing so, Jesus appeared to them all.

            Mark 16, the two Marys and Salome came to the tomb, the stone had already been rolled away. Inside they met the angel who told them to tell the disciples to go to Galilee and they will see him there. The three fled in fear and told no one!

            Luke 24, it was the two Marys, Joanna and “other women” who discovered the tomb empty and then were met by two angels who told them Jesus had risen and was alive. Under NO instructions, they went and told the disciples, who didn’t believe them. Jesus then appeared to two MEN disciples, one of whom was Cleopas.

            John 20, Mary Magdalene alone was grieving at the tomb, then looked in and saw it was empty, then ran and told Peter. Peter and another disciple went to the tomb and confirmed he was gone. After they left, Mary was met be two angles and Jesus.

            So, the gospels disagree on who saw whom and when they saw them.

            Since the Gospels were written decades after the fact and not be eyewitnesses, they clearly were writing down rumors, or the first that was written (likely Mark) was made up and the others heard versions of Mark’s creative writing. I am not saying that is what happened, but it is a likely scenario.

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            First off you fail to understand how to read literature and writers from the time of the writing. The authors of the New Testament all had differing reasons for their gospels. Also, Mark focuses on one angel at the tomb. While another says there are two and Mark calls the angels young men. So which was it? Well they were angels who looked like men. However, the writers of the time would focus often on the speaker or person being used to drive their point home. This is not a contradiction but how they wrote. Further, a woman’s testimony was suspect in court in Jewish and even Greco-Roman society. The apostles and Luke would not have used women as witnesses for the resurrection of Christ unless it was true. Also, the virgin birth has no issues. Its simply the facts. GOD became a man. The myths do not compare. For one thing they involve sex and also have gods who act as Maniacs. Also, many of them such as the Mithra cult date to after 300 A.D. Finally, trying to convert me to your way of thinking is futile. I have experienced the risen Lord Jesus Christ. Once a man comes to experience Him there is no turning back…I have made my decision and know what awaits me when this life is over! As the old hymn goes, “I have decided to follow Jesus no more looking back”.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            Hello James I appreciate your response.

            Well, that’s one way of justifying contradictions (the writer’s perspective) and then claim that there are no contradictions at all. One can do that with anything. Cheney-Bush justified their gulag archipelago of black-site torture camps simply by changing the definition of torture, then keeping the “enhanced” interrogation methods secret. Trump, of course, big Christian as he is, wants to reestablish the archipelago only he wants to redefine even more harsh methods of torture–to include murdering the suspected terrorist’s family. That is why I use definitions as they are in the dictionary and established by the courts and the Constitution.

            I am a person who believes his eyes–and sometimes my ears. If you were on a jury of a man being accused of murder, and there were four witnesses, each with conflicting testimony, but saying the man did it. Barring any other evidence, would you convict the man?

            A devout believer will always find a way to circumvent inconsistency. Muslims do the very same thing. Virtually anyone of whatever religion he was taught to belive, will justify it no matter what evidence there is to the contrary. Yet, in the end, both sides of a contradiction cannot be true.

            The apostles and Luke would not have used women as witnesses for the resurrection of Christ unless it was true.

            The “apostles” did not write the Gospels. Had they, they would have written them just after the crucifixion–those who were still alive. As well, anything goes in fictional writing. I say, “fictional” because even today we do not know who wrote them and since they have different accounts, it is clear that they were acting on rumor (hearsay). Besides, adding a woman “witness” is a nice touch to fiction.

            Also, the virgin birth has no issues. Its simply the facts.

            I’ll take the high road here and give you the benefit of the doubt. There are several big issues with the “virgin” birth, not the least of was Isaiah’s prophesy. Isaiah used the word “almah” in the prophesy, which simply means “young woman.” In the translation into Greek (which occurred about 8 centuries later), that old Hebrew word “almah,” was translated as “parthenos,” which means “virgin.”

            As I’m sure you are aware–or at least taught as I was–that ancient Jewish scribes paid meticulous attention in specificity. If Isaiah had meant “virgin”–and as important as that would have been–he would have used the old Hebrew word, “Bethulah,” which meant, “Virgin.”

            And, yes, there are sources with say that “almah” means “virgin” as well. But these sources were written centuries too late. I’ve no doubt making that change in the definition was a belated effort to cover the deception. After all, an entire religion was built on it with the established church standing to lose a lot of cash should the deception become well known.

            So, we can debate this and other issues pertaining to the “virgin” birth, but to say there are no issues, is just not true.

            GOD became a man. The myths do not compare.

            No? I have some very pointed issues with the biblical Genesis story, not the least of which is with logic.

            The creation story is clearly myth and not just because of evolutionary science. It reads much like other creation myths and is as provable as the others.

            Who, according to the story, introduced sin into the world? Most folks say “Eve did it.” They are wrong. Yahweh did it.

            I argue that, were the myth actually true, and sin because Yahweh wanted humans to have free will–to chose between good and evil, then humans had to know good and evil in order to make that choice. Therefore, it was Yahweh who wanted to introduce sin and the Garden of Eden was simply a stage set up for a scripted play.

            It is a shame that women have suffered the consequences for so many centuries. But then, it was men who wrote the story in the first place as a means to explain to women why they are inferior.

            Considering the foregoing, here is a question for you: According to the Bible, who creates evil?

            That’s enough for now. There is far too much to go into at this time. I’ll leave it with that for now.

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            Its not a contradiction, but how they wrote. Its all over literature from the era. Also, if I see a traffic accident while driving a car. Then someone else sees the same accident while out walking a dog. Our stories will be different but not the same. Additionally, if someone sees the same accident from another car in another part of the road, then their perspective will be different is some ways. The reality is the story will be basically the same, but different eye witnesses. If there were not any differences in the gospel accounts then people would still say something is wrong here. The fact is the so called problems actually strengthen the account. In addition to this we have very early manuscript evidence for all the gospels now. Parts of them have been found which date to the 60s A.D. including Mark and Matthew. We also have a fragment of John that dates to A.D. 93 which means the apostle had to write it before 96 A.D. as early thought. He was the youngest of Christ disciples and now it appears he had to have written his gospel in about 80 A.D. With all these gospels floating around from the disciples why did not the Jewish authorities put an end to it? Why did the Romans not? Instead, the Romans chose to kill Christians. I probably do not even have to tell you about Nero using believers as torches in His garden. Another fact Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians of James the brother of Jesus seeing Jesus alive again and of 500 at once seeing this. Again why did the authorities and others not put an end to this? Paul’s letter were written very early between 47 A.D. and 66 A.D. Corinthians also has a creed in it that dates to about 35 or 36 A.D. and has Jesus resurrection mentioned in it. SO again why did they not stifle it unless it happened. Also why did the disciples not deny it in the face of death? We also have secular sources now such as Thallus who describes a eclipse of the Sun the day of Jesus death. Which supports the account in Matthew. There are tons of evidences for the Resurrection and life of Christ. We keep finding things. It amazes me. Because I run into people who if they open their minds just a little and researched it more deeply would come to faith as I have. But I do admit there is a huge difference in mere intellectual accent of knowing who Christ is versus knowing within the soul and or spirit of our being. That is in putting trust in Him as Savior. Besides the above facts I have seen so much that proves to me that Jesus is more then a man in history or story. He really is God incarnate. My life has been changed because of Him and I continue to live because of Him. In all honestly I never thought I would have a PhD, or any degree as a 16 year old. I thought and believed my destiny was to die, or go to jail. But it did not happen that way. I was saved not just eternally by salvation but I was saved by God from death itself. Jesus saves in all fullness. I just wish you and the whole world could come to see what I mean…..God bless.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            Hi James,

            Then someone else sees the same accident while out walking a dog. Our stories will be different but not the same. Additionally, if someone sees the same accident from another car in another part of the road, then their perspective will be different is some ways. The reality is the story will be basically the same, but different eye witnesses.

            Hmm, it seems that you changed the scenario to fit the beliefs. Of course there likely would be minor differences in what the witnesses saw, but first, we are not talking about minor differences (who told what to whom and when–or told no one at all), and secondly, the Bible is supposed to be the literal “word of God,” and therefore literally true. The stories agree or they do not. It appears to me that the differences are significant enough to merit the opinion that the stories were written mainly from hear-say and added to by the writer’s “creative license.”

            Now, the scenario I was asking about was in a court of law. If you were on a jury of a man being accused of murder, and there were four witnesses, each with conflicting testimony, but saying the man did it. Barring any other evidence, would you convict the man?

            But I have a real life scenario for you. I was teaching sixth grade a couple of years ago. After finishing the day and arriving at home, I got a call from the principle of the school. She said that a kid claims that I kicked him in the leg. He said there were two other kids who saw me do it.

            The county investigated and found that one “witness” said he saw me kick the kid’s arm. The other said I kicked him in the chest. There were no substantiating bruises on the kid, but here we have three kids telling the same basic story, but with different details (where I kicked the kid). What do you believe. I certainly did make the kid sit up in a chair (he had been lying on the floor, asleep). But did I kick the kid? Would you fire me based on the accusations? Did the differing statements “strengthen” the accusations?

            The so-called Mark fragment, as far as I’ve found after an hour’s search on the Internet, has not been verified. It was supposed to have been discovered in 2012 and virtually all articles I’ve found are dated no later than January, 2015. I did fine one dated March 2015, but it still gave no information on verification. I did find one article that laid out the scenario that led to the media picking up the fragment story and some never bothered to verify before publishing misleading information that suggested that the artifact was real.

            Thus, unless you can give me evidence of its verification by INDEPENDENT forensic scientists and verified by others, I will have to dismiss it as a hoax. Besides, 80 CE would still have been some 50 years after the alleged crucifixion. Were he a witness of it, it stands to reason that he would have written much earlier—right after the event. It stands to reason, as well, that if the writer was a follower of Jesus, and his acts were true, he would have recorded then as well.

            The Pauline letters? Here is another problem. He mentions that Jesus was crucified and claims he “died for our sins,” but apparently knew nothing much else about Jesus. No mention of his alleged “virgin” birth, no mention of his miracles (such as raising the dead, walking on water, changing water to wine, etc.). Since his are the earliest known writings, it stands to reason that he would have known more.

            So, basically, what we have of the life of Jesus is hear-say. Were he to have raised the dead, for example, it would have been widely known and the Romans would have written of it–Josephus notwithstanding, according to scholars.

            Okay, there isn’t much point in going on. You and I are wasting our time. Still, I would like you to give me good, independent evidence of the Mark fragment.

            I’m glad that you are living a good life. No doubt you are a good man. I just hope you are not one who tries to influence politicians to make laws based on your religious beliefs. That is my only real objection other than to make political decisions on the religiosity of the candidates. Such leaves one wide open to being deceived by self-serving politicians.

            So, as far as I am concerned, you can believe anything and worship your god as you please. That is religious freedom. You even have the freedom to mock other beliefs as they have to mock yours. You do not have the freedom, however, to deny others their freedom to believe, live, and marry as they choose, nor may you have your religion taught in public schools. I hope you agree.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            BTW, James, prayer does not work. See, “IS GOD DEAF?” and at TheBenevolentThou (dot) COM.

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            Not interested. Prayer does work. I have seen the terminal healed, cancer gone, hearts healed and provision all in the name of Jesus CHrist. Once one has experienced the reality of God there is no turning back!

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            Yes, fundamentalists of all religions would say virtually the same thing. I think that all such questions should be investigated with objectivity. I did just that.

            Stories abound about such “healings.” They appear to happen on the Sunday performances of “faith healers” on television and in megachurches where their is a large audience–like the Bennie Hen show.

            But folks like him never go to hospitals and heal the terminal children and adults. Why don’t they? I think you know the answer. They can’t pull off the scam there. It’s always in very large settings where there is cash to be had.

            So, I’ll stick with objectivity. That way I know I can never be deceived by the emotional rhetoric of self-serving preachers and politicians who thump the Bible as a means to gain followers–and riches.

          • JAMES A. WHITE

            I never went to a Benny Hinn crusade, but do know from my experience that the best people I have met are church folks. I know preachers who have raised families being bi-vocational or little money. I have a friend who was a bank executive for 18 years make 100,000 a year become a preacher and have his pay cut in half or more. Now that to me is a sacrifice. Further, healing has to be desired for some. I as a child never sought the healing nor understand it. I was taken to a church as I said. A small country church where all the people were farmers and railroad workers etc. Nobody was rich or preached for wealth. I also had no faith or any I recognized. All I remember was being healed in Jesus name. It happened and I am alive because of it these many, many years later. Finally, I started preaching 16 years ago. I have went for next to nothing all to help churches. Money means nothing to me. This life is temporal. As far as some fake ministers. They will pay one day. No one can serve two masters God or mammon. They must choose. If money is their god then it is a poor choice and one day they will pay for it. They will pay for being religious hypocrites.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            Good, we agree on something. I never said, or say, that all preachers are dishonest and do no good for others.

    • WGB

      Amen brother.

  • TJ

    Just a lost soul who needs a savior.

    • Nofun

      No one needs saving … except from wasting the only life they get.

      • The Watcher

        And your life? If you believe in no afterlife, and feel the need to impose that concept on us, what shall become of you?

        • Nofun

          The same as you … except i will have lived my life, the only life you get, as me and you will have wasted yours by pretending to be someone else.

        • Nogods

          The idea of an afterlife is silly wishful thinking. It is like pretending that Santa’s workshop really exists.

          • The Watcher

            Remember that when you take your last breath.

          • Nogods

            Just remember – there are thousands of other gods you could worship but choose to reject. But your rejection of these other gods comes at a cost: all of these other gods intend to punish you when you are dead. So tell me how concerned you are about their impending wrath? Because that is the exact same level of concern I have about the impending wrath of your god. Pretty laughable isn’t it?

          • Nofun

            That could be difficult.

    • Nogods

      Jesus didn’t die for anyone’s sins. That is just a 1st century superstitious belief. From purely a logical point of view, you can’t hurt an all powerful god. And you certainly can’t kill one. So the whole death/resurrection was just an elaborate theatrical performance to entertain the delusional masses. If you weren’t a brainwashed member of a doomsday cult, this would not be difficult to understand.

  • Cosmic Mastermind

    Your insinuation that this woman is not a genuine believer is an insult to all members of the Pastafarianist faith. You don’t know that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn’t exist.

    • IB6 UB9

      I’ve seen His noodle-y appendages, and I can tell you – you must believe.

  • Ken Campbell

    Humor is the best way to fight stupidity

  • WGB

    She’s mocking the Most High God and will answer for it.

    • Nogods

      Oh, the irony. Your god is as powerful as Zeus. That is why YOU are here pretending to speak on HIS behalf. Your god can’t even talk, let alone act.

      Tell me what your god does that Zeus doesn’t do? Let’s start with a list comparing Zeus with Jesus.

      1. Jesus doesn’t heal people. Zeus doesn’t heal people.
      2. Jesus doesn’t prevent bad things from happening to good people. Zeus doesn’t prevent bad things from happening to good people.
      3. Jesus doesn’t stop priests from raping young boys. Zeus doesn’t stop priests from raping young boys.
      4. Jesus doesn’t stop anyone from having an abortion. Zeus doesn’t stop anyone from having an abortion.
      5. Jesus never defends his ethics himself but relies upon his followers to speak on his behalf. Zeus never defends his ethics himself but relies upon his followers to speak on his behalf.
      6. Jesus never makes TV appearances to clarify his book. Zeus never makes TV appearances to clarify his books.
      7. Jesus never writes anything. Zeus never writes anything.
      8. Jesus is invisible. Zeus is invisible.
      9. There is no clear and objective evidence supporting the claim that Jesus was magical. There is no clear and objective evidence supporting the claim that Zeus was magical.
      10. The existence of a magical Jesus is only documented in an ancient book. The existence of a magical Zeus is only documented in ancient books.
      11. There are a million things Jesus could do that would immediately convince everyone that he is real, but he does none of them. There are a million things Zeus could do that would immediately convince everyone that he is real, but he does none of them.
      12. Jesus doesn’t stop Christians from having their heads lopped off by Muslim extremists. Zeus doesn’t stop Christians from having their heads lopped off by Muslim extremists.
      13. Jesus doesn’t feed starving children. Zeus doesn’t feed starving children.
      14. The followers of Jesus don’t think that he does anything himself but claim that he has to “work through” people. The followers of Zeus don’t think that he does anything himself but claim that he has to “work through” people.

      So what do you think your god actually does?

      • WGB

        ☝️I did not read your entire comment, but I disagree with what I did read – the first line.

        I stand by my comments. I will pray for you. God bless.

        • Nogods

          Identify any number you think is wrong and tell me why it is wrong.

          • WGB

            You’re not making sense.
            God bless you.

          • Nogods

            Willful ignorance is not your friend.

          • WGB

            You would know more about ignorance than me.

            God bless.

          • Nogods

            I do know a lot more about ignorance than you. You obviously have no ability to discern it from truth.

            There is just as much evidence supporting the existence of flying purple fairies that orbit the earth as there is supporting the existence of gods. So if it is irrational to believe that purple fairies are real, it is also irrational to think gods are real and to organize your life around them.

            Isn’t it odd that if are born in the US you are probably a Christian. But if you are born in a different country, there is a very good chance you worship a completely different god? But both groups of believers are equally certain that their god is the “right” god. So geography is the most important factor in determining religious certainties. That should make a reasonable person question their “beliefs” don’t you think? Maybe you shouldn’t be so certain of yours.

          • WGB

            I disagree. ☝️Did not read your entire comment. I do not value your opinion.

          • Nofun

            Isn’t God just an opinion?

          • WGB

            No.

          • Nofun

            Any evidence?

          • WGB

            Any evidence to the contrary?

          • Nofun

            Yes. The complete lack of evidence for any gods ever.

          • WGB

            You’re not making sense.

            God bless.

          • Nofun

            What real world evidence do you have for your god?

            You can’t run away from the issue by saying “you are making no sense”.

          • WGB

            What real world evidence do you have against my God?

            You still think your opinion/hate/ignorance matters, lol. It doesn’t.

          • Nofun

            The absence of evidence is evidence of absence … unless you can come up with some evidence of your god.

          • WGB

            Your ramblings are not making sense.

          • Nofun

            So you have no evidence of your god?

            Just admit it.

            You believe because you want to and it makes you happy.

          • WGB

            So, you have no evidence to the contrary? And you expect us to doubt God because you do, lol.

          • Nofun

            When there is no evidence for a thing you surmise that the thing doesn’t exist … unless you do have some evidence.

          • WGB

            You’re not making sense…just repeating yourself like a child throwing a tantrum. Sad. I’m praying for you.

          • Nofun

            What you mean is that you are praying to convince yourself that your god still exists…. because deep down you know it isn’t true.

          • WGB

            I disagree. ☝️didn’t read your entire comment.

            God bless.

          • Ken Campbell

            For some people, the need to believe is more important then the validity of the belief

          • Nofun

            Yes, its definitely a desperate need.
            the problem is reality provides everything religion claims to … and the bible makes life and death more frightening and complicated than it really is.

          • Ken Campbell

            I agree. However, for some people, this is equivalent to abandonment. They NEED to believe in something powerful in order to validate their own existence. In a way, it is similar to a small child waiting for a parent to validate their existence.

          • Nofun

            Its like any drug …. you feel you can’t have live without it …. until you rehab and realize that is not true.

          • Ken Campbell

            some people are unwilling to see outside their own experience. When I worked as a counselor in a hospital, it was clear that some people did not want to know about their illness. They simply wanted to have faith that they would get better. Other people wanted to know everything that they could about their illness and the procedures that they would undergo. It was important for me to respect either position.

            In the case of WGB, she does not seem interested in actually exploring her faith. She just wants to have it

          • Nofun

            Rejecting what you hear is one thing … but refusing to even listen … that’s pathological. It can’t be healthy to have such a closed fearful mind. It must be unpleasant to endure.

          • Ken Campbell

            I’m not sure. The expression “blissful ignorance’ may apply. Sometimes it is easier just not knowing

          • Nofun

            Maybe. The problem is that aren’t really happy. It is faux manufactured happiness. Maybe that is good enough for some.

          • Nogods

            You seem proud of your willful ignorance. Is that a “Christian value?”

            I have read every word you have written.

          • WGB

            I disagree, but you should be embarrassed of yours.

            God bless.

          • Nogods

            You have repeatedly ADMITTED that you have not read most of what I have written. Thus, you are ADMITTEDLY IGNORANT of its contents

            I, on the other hand, have read EVERYTHING that you have written. I am thus, knowledgable of its contents.

            See how that works.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your blasphemous comments. We disagree with eachother. I don’t value your opinions. Move on.

            God bless.

          • Nogods

            You can’t disagree with me because you ADMIT that you don’t know my opinions. Why are you so afraid of information? Does your god demand that you remain willfully ignorant?

          • WGB

            I disagree.☝️didn’t read and will never read your blasphemous comments. We disagree with eachother. I don’t value your opinions. You will NEVER change my mind. Move on troll.

            God bless.

          • Nogods

            There are many religious claims science has disproven. Here are a few:

            1. As the story goes, god reincarnated himself as Jesus so that he could “sacrifice” himself, to himself, as a means of forgiving the sins of Adam and Eve. Yet, science is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that Adam and Eve were not the first humans and there is no evidence or reason to believe they ever existed. So the entire story of jesus is built upon this false premiss. If you don’t believe in the genesis story, and the entire story of Jesus is built upon that story, why would you believe the Jesus story?

            2. Modern science is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the universe was not created as recounted in the story of genesis.

            3. Modern science is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN the whole story of the great exodus never happened.

            4. Most Christians believe that their god listens to them and answers their prayers. This is commonly claimed as “evidence” of their god. So if their god heals them in response to prayer, why do Christians have the same life expectancy as everyone else? Modern science has never documented a SINGLE instance in which someone has been healed by prayer or by the magic of a god.

            5. Modern science is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that life has evolved over time and was not created in its present forms.

            6. Science is absolutely certain that the soul is purely a fictional construct.

            Isn’t it interesting to think that there have been thousands of early questions about our universe that were once explained as “the work of god”. But as we became more educated and learned more about our world, those supernatural answers were replaced with real world answers. The interesting part of this however, is that during this time, NONE of those early questions were actually found to be the work of a god; “God” has NEVER turned out to actually be a correct answer to any question – EVER.

            The god of the bible is no different then the thousands of other gods we now classify as mythology. It really is that simple.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your comments/trolling.

            2 Peter 3:3
            “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,”

          • Nogods

            2,000 years – STILL dead.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your comments/trolling. Jesus Christ alive now and forever:
            Luke 24
            He Is Risen
            24 Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them,[a]came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. 2 But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. 3 Then they went in and did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it happened, as they were greatly[b] perplexed about this, that behold, two men stood by them in shining garments. 5 Then, as they were afraid and bowed their faces to the earth, they said to them, “Why do you seek the living among the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, 7 saying, ‘The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.’”

            8 And they remembered His words. 9 Then they returned from the tomb and told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them, who told these things to the apostles. 11 And their words seemed to them like idle tales, and they did not believe them. 12 But Peter arose and ran to the tomb; and stooping down, he saw the linen cloths lying[c] by themselves; and he departed, marveling to himself at what had happened.

            The Road to Emmaus

            13 Now behold, two of them were traveling that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was seven miles[d]from Jerusalem. 14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened. 15 So it was, while they conversed and reasoned, that Jesus Himself drew near and went with them. 16 But their eyes were restrained, so that they did not know Him.

            17 And He said to them, “What kind of conversation is this that you have with one another as you walk and are sad?”[e]

            18 Then the one whose name was Cleopas answered and said to Him, “Are You the only stranger in Jerusalem, and have You not known the things which happened there in these days?”

            19 And He said to them, “What things?”

            So they said to Him, “The things concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a Prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, 20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to be condemned to death, and crucified Him. 21 But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, today is the third day since these things happened. 22 Yes, and certain women of our company, who arrived at the tomb early, astonished us. 23 When they did not find His body, they came saying that they had also seen a vision of angels who said He was alive. 24 And certain of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said; but Him they did not see.”

            25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” 27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

            The Disciples’ Eyes Opened

            28 Then they drew near to the village where they were going, and He indicated that He would have gone farther. 29 But they constrained Him, saying, “Abide with us, for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent.” And He went in to stay with them.

            30 Now it came to pass, as He sat at the table with them, that He took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight.

            32 And they said to one another, “Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?” 33 So they rose up that very hour and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven and those who were with them gathered together, 34 saying, “The Lord is risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!” 35 And they told about the things that had happened on the road, and how He was known to them in the breaking of bread.

            Jesus Appears to His Disciples

            36 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.”37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. 38 And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”

            40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.[f] 41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb.[g] 43 And He took it and ate in their presence.

            The Scriptures Opened

            44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

            46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise[h] from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem[i] until you are endued with power from on high.”

            The Ascension

            50 And He led them out as far as Bethany, and He lifted up His hands and blessed them. 51 Now it came to pass, while He blessed them, that He was parted from them and carried up into heaven. 52 And they worshiped Him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy, 53 and were continually in the temple praising and[j]blessing God. Amen.[k]

          • Nogods

            You are just fooling yourself. I still dont see him.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your comments/trolling.

            The Word of God says:
            Acts 2:38
            Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

        • Nogods

          Instead of praying, have you ever thought of stepping it up a notch and maybe sacrifice a goat or other small mammal? Or maybe even a virgin? I am thinking that might be a better way to get your god’s attention because it is pretty clear that prayers are pointless.

          • WGB

            ☝️Did not read your entire comment, but what I did read does not make sense.

            I stand by my comments. God bless.

          • Nogods

            Different cultures believe they can communicate with their gods in different ways. Such are the ways of the superstitious.

          • WGB

            You’re not making sense. Not sure how that is relevant to me and my God.

          • Nofun

            You are not having a conversation with your god anymore than any other person is having a conversation with their god.

          • WGB

            You’re not making sense.

          • Nofun

            Do you hear voices in your head you attribute to god?

          • WGB

            You’re still not making sense. God bless.

          • Nofun

            What part of this simple sentence do you have a problem with?

          • WGB

            You’re still not making sense.

          • Nofun

            Which part of the sentence is a problem for you?

            Or is “You’re not making sense” all you have?

          • WGB

            You’re not making sense.

          • Nofun

            Is that really all you have?

          • WGB

            Considering that you haven’t added value to this conversation, and your repetitive expressions of doubt in pagan gods are pointless when referring to the One True and Living God, I would say you have offered nothing except a sincere desire to want to argue my beliefs in which you have no bearing over and can never change. If you don’t believe in God, ok, you’ll still bow before Jesus Christ and declare Him Lord of all. Your blood is on your own hands.

            God bless.

          • Nofun

            “repetitive expression” That’s amusing as you say the same thing over and over.

            Actually if don’t believe there is no bowing and scraping. You are kept in line by fear only … sad … its no way to go through life.

          • WGB

            You’re not making sense. ☝️didn’t read.

          • Nofun

            Of course not …shut out the world .. it isn’t happening .. god will burn me if I listen to anyone.

          • Ken Campbell

            The concept of cognitive dissonance resolution is very important here. WGB is not going to look at anything that counters his/her position as this would disrupt his/her finely balanced sense of existence. This produces a psychological barrier against arguments and leads to the mantra of ‘God bless’ and the repeated ‘this does not make any sense’.

          • Nofun

            I may be mad but I think no one can keep reality out completely.

            Denial is the easiest approach of course.

            I just feel pity for such a closed mind frozen with fear.

          • WGB

            You don’t make sense.
            If you’re happy why are you trying to force your beliefs on others? Shouldn’t you be walking around, smugly, with an “I have it all figured out attitude”. But, no. Instead you’re in an online forum trying to force your hate/doubt/disbelief/misery on strangers. Very sad. I pity you.

          • Nofun

            I don’t have beliefs to force on you.

            I am just trying to introduce a little bit of healthy doubt into your life. It is possible you will wake up and not waste the only life you get pretending to be someone you are not.

            I am motivated by love only.

          • WGB

            You’re lying. Either way I disagree and do not value your beliefs. ☝️Did not read your entire comment.

            Good evening.

          • Nofun

            I don’t value my beliefs either since I have none.

            How am I lying again? That’s a pretty strong accusation.

          • WGB

            ☝️did not read.

            Luke 19:10 “For the Son of Man came to seek and save those who are lost.”

          • Nofun

            You don’t need to be saved. There is no original sin. It is the bible inventing a problem and then making itself the answer.

          • WGB

            ☝️did not read. I stand by my comments.

          • Nofun

            You didn’t make any comments just quoted bible verses with no context or explanation on how they support your views.

            Do you really feel proud writing “did not read” … are you really so scared of other people’s opinions you are frightened to read even one sentence?

            It is symptom of the terrible fear you live under. You don’t need it. You can be free of it.

          • WGB

            ☝️I did not read your comment, but thank you.

            Matthew 5:10 God blesses those who are persecuted for doing right, for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.

            God bless you.

          • WGB

            ☝️I did not read your comment. You’re not making sense. We disagree with each other. Move on. Trolling, harassing, being obsessed with Christians doesn’t and never will change our belief in God. It only causes us to pity and pray for you. The remnant is not moved by the games you play, your persecution of Jesus Christ followers.

            1 Peter 3:8-17

            Suffering for Righteousness’ Sake

            8 Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind. 9 Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing. 10 For

            “Whoever desires to love life
            and see good days,
            let him keep his tongue from evil
            and his lips from speaking deceit;
            11 let him turn away from evil and do good;
            let him seek peace and pursue it.
            12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous,
            and his ears are open to their prayer.
            But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”

            13 Now who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is good? 14 But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled, 15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, 16 having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. 17 For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God’s will, than for doing evil.

            God bless.

          • Ken Campbell

            WGB, no one can force you to believe something. You must take on a belief willingly. However, for a belief to be strong, it must be able to withstand challenges. If you are concerned that your belief is not strong enough to counter these challenges, you should not engage in this type of discussion.

          • WGB

            First, ☝️I did not read your entire comment.
            Second, I disagree with what I did read. I don’t owe you or anyone else an explanation for my beliefs, LOL. Your arrogance in demanding one is hilarious and your ignorance in doubting God is pitiful. I’ll pray for you, but I won’t argue with you or anyone else.

            Finally, you challenging my beliefs (and mocking God) is your issue not mine. I am confident and secure in what I believe. Your choice/free will not to believe is your right, but you will never change my mind.

            God bless.

          • Ken Campbell

            I am sorry you did not read the entire comment. It was only one paragraph. It is apparent in your response that you are quick to anger but not quick to think. That is a sad statement on your character.

            I don’t know where my statement was mocking your beliefs. Oh wait. You didn’t read my statement and only ‘assumed’ I was mocking you. It is no wonder to me that you are so tormented by your belief that you are being ‘persecuted’. You have a victim mentality.

            I do not expect you to convince anyone of the accuracy of your beliefs. My point is that you should not engage in topics where you are not willing or capable of defending your position.

            Tragically, your unwillingness to discuss your beliefs will be your undoing in the long run. You are completely unprepared to respond to doubt.

          • WGB

            ☝️did not read your entire comment.

            It is a sad statement on your character to feel that you can bully someone into denying God because you deny Him. And ridiculous to call someone angry because they disagree with you and tell you the Truth. Hell is where those who reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior will spend eternity.

            Your foolishness and arrogance in demanding that Christians explain to you why they believe in God is asinine. We were never instructed to convince you of anything or argue and debate with you. We don’t owe you an explanation. But, if you would like to know more about God pray, study the Bible, and join a faith-based church. Accept the Word when it’s presented to you and move on. if you’re looking to change my beliefs, you’re wasting your time. In any event your trolling Christians will get you nowhere.

            You are a lost and very confused man who will bow before the same God you deny and declare that He, Jesus Christ is Lord of all. I believe God’s Word not your lies and confusion. Your opinions are irrelevant, but the Truth of God’s Word stands forever. As far as what you think is logical/wisdom the Bible says this in 1 Corinthians 3:19-21:

            19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”[a]; 20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”[b] 21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders!

            Your blood is on your own hands.

            Finally, we disagree. Move on.

            God bless.

            fyi-I won’t read any blasphemy or anything that dishonors God.

          • Ken Campbell

            If you are not willing to read comments then you are not worthy of engaging in discussion. I am putting this as my first line so you will read it.

            How is it bullying to challenge a belief? I don’t think you understand the concept

            You make accusations that I am bullying you, and yet you will not be able to show me any bullying statement. You are in fact, making false accusations. I suppose that is acceptable in your religion as Christianity has a long history of making false judgments of others.

            Christians should not try to argue that their god is real, and certainly, any rational Christian should not be attracted to this discussion (considering the story that spawned it). You are not able or willing to enter into discussion. I suggest you withdraw.

          • WGB

            I accept your apology. ☝️I did not read your entire comment (again), but I hope you find peace with God and learn to accept people with different viewpoints and belief systems. Bigotry is a hateful and ugly thing and trying to control what other people think and believe is futile. Being miserable, judgmental, and hateful toward others because they believe in God is a pathetic and sad existence. I pray for you in Jesus name.

            God bless.

            *Finally, we disagree with each other. Feel free to move on, stop trolling me, and leave me alone. I will never read your entire comments.

          • Nogods

            My comments don’t make sense to you because you admittedly don’t read them. That explains your ignorance.

            Praying, and sacrificing mammals and virgins are all just ancient superstitious beliefs.

          • WGB

            ☝️Didn’t read. We disagree. Move on. You will never change my mind/beliefs.

          • Nogods

            “You will never change my mind/beliefs.” – it is unfortunate that you ADMIT that you are CLOSEMINDED. That explains your ignorance.

          • WGB

            You are not making sense. Your trolling me is indicative of other issues you must be dealing with and definitely does not increase the value of your opinions.

            God bless.

          • Nogods

            You don’t know my opinions because you admit that you haven’t read them. So your statement is both false and dishonest.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your blasphemous comments. We disagree with eachother. Stop trolling and harassing me. Move on.

            God bless.

          • Nogods

            Isn’t it odd that your god needs YOU to defend him? He NEVER utters a peep in his own defense. We both know that if you don’t say something, your god certainly isn’t going to. That, in-and-of-itself, is evidence your god is either impotent or non existent. But he is in good company – Spider-Man has the same problem. So does Thor and Ra.

          • WGB

            Your continued trolling is indicative of your mental illness and control issues. Either way,☝️didn’t read and will never read your blasphemous comments. We disagree with eachother. I don’t value your opinions. Move on. Jesus Christ is Lord of all.

            God bless.

          • Nogods

            Isn’t it interesting to think that, over the past 2,000 years, BILLIONS of Christians have believed that Jesus would return during their lifetime. And EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM have gone to their graves COMPLETELY WRONG. And just as they have ALL been COMPLETELY WRONG, so will you. Jesus is STILL dead. And dead people don’t come back to life. Believing that they do is a superstitious belief that has ALWAYS been wrong. Keep pretending that your reality will somehow be different then the BILLIONS of Christians that have come before you. But know that you are just fooling yourself.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your comments/trolling, but here you go, hopefully this helps you:
            Romans 10:9-10
            9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

          • Nogods

            Isn’t it odd to think that there are an infinite variety of things the christian god could do that would immediately and unequivocally convince everyone of his existence. And if he did ANY ONE OF THEM, NO ONE WOULD GO TO HELL. Yet, he chooses to not do any of them. Do you think it is because he is identical to all the other gods we now regard as mythology?

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your comments/trolling.

            To those reading this thread: Never turn away from the Truth of God’s Word for the confusion and lies of lost men and women.

            Matthew 22:37-38
            37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and great commandment.”

            God bless you.

          • Nogods

            Isn’t it interesting how many Christians regard the Ten Commandments as god’s law which should be followed? But oddly, only 2.5 of the 10 commandments are actually law in the US. The other 7.5 would violate the constitution and the American ideals of freedom if they were memorialized as law. The only place the other 7.5 are enforced are in Muslim countries that practice sharia law – like Iraq and Afghanistan. And to think, Christians proclaim the 10 commandments as model laws to live by. Let’s just hope that the Christian Taliban is never successful in their effort to institute Christian sharia law in the U.S.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your comments/trolling.

            God is Faithful.
            1 Corinthians 1:99 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
            God bless.

          • Nogods

            Tell me what I could show you that would convince you that your god is identical to all the other gods you could choose to worship, but are CERTAIN are not real? Just ONE thing? One small thing? Because their are an INFINITE variety of things you could show me that would instantly and unequivocally convince me that your god is actually real. Brainwashed cult members can never think of anything.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your comments and trolling, but:
            John 3:16
            16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

          • Nogods

            Your god doesn’t have children. The god of the Old Testament is really the same god of the New Testament – well, if you believe in the trinity that is. And the vast majority of Christians accept the trinity as absolute truth, just like you probably do. So the story goes like this: A god magically impregnated a virgin with himself, so he could give birth to himself, and then sacrifice himself, to himself, to negate the “original sin” of a couple we now know never existed in the first place.

            So according to the trinity, the father, the son, and a ghost are all part of an inseparable whole. So Jesus really isn’t any different then the barbaric sadist god of the Old Testament – though it is clear you wish they were. Christianity is a monotheistic religion – you worship just one god – but Christians treat it as polytheistic to separate themselves from the genocidal insanity of god the father documented in the Old Testament. But that can’t be done without being dishonest about your superstitious beliefs. Because I know you don’t worship multiple gods do you – you know, like the early Romans, the Greeks, or the Hindus.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your comments/trolling.

            For the believers reading this thread:
            Jude 18-20
            18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

            20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,

          • Nogods

            Here is some great scripture: Deuteronomy 13:6-9 “If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.”

            Deuteronomy 17:3-5 “And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, …..and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die.”

            2 Chronicles 15:13 “All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.”

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your comments/trolling.

            I pray this Word penetrates the heart of the lost in Jesus’ name:

            James 2:19
            You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble.

            Acts 3:19-21
            Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you–even Jesus. Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

            God bless.

          • Meepestos

            Don’t expect much; this person’s faith, willful ignorance , and bronze age quotes and poetry is what you’ll get.

    • Nofun

      Sure you worship the correct god? You will answer for it if you don’t.

      • WGB

        You’re not making sense. I stand by my comments.

        God bless.

        • Nogods

          Here is a short list of gods you could choose to worship. Tell me what ones you think are real: Angus, Belenos, Brigid, dana, Lugh, Dagda, Epona, Aphrodite, Apollo, Ares, Artemis, Atehna, Demeter, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Gaia, Hades, Hekate, Helios, Hephaestus, Hera, hermes, Hestia, Pan, Poseidon, Selene, Uranus, Zeus, Mathilde, Elves, Jesus, Eostre, Frigg, Hretha, Saxnot, Shef, Thuno, Tir, Weyland, Woden, Alfar, Balder, Beyla, Bil, Bragi, Byggvir, Dagr, Disir, Eir, Forseti, Freya, Freyr, Frigga, Heimdall, Hel, Hoenir, Idunn, Jord, Lofn, Loki, Mon, Njord, Norns, Nott, Odin, Ran, saga, Sif, Siofn, Skadi, Snotra, Sol, Syn, Ull, Thor, Tyr, Var, Vali, Vidar, Vor, Black Shuck, Herne, Jack in the Green, Holda, Nehalennia, Nerthus, endovelicus, Ataegina, Runesocesius, Apollo, Bacchus, Ceres, Cupid, Diana, Janus, Juno, Jupiter, Maia, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Neptune, Pluto, Plutus, Proserpina, Venus, Vesta, Vulcan, Attis, Cybele, El-Gabal, Isis, Mithras, Sol Invictus, Endovelicus, Anubis, Aten, Atum, Bast, Bes, Geb, Hapi, Hathor, Heget, Horus, Imhotep, Isis, Khepry, Khnum, Maahes, Ma’at, Menhit, Mont, Naunet, Neith, Nephthys, Nut, Osiris, Ptah, ra, Sekhmnet, Sobek, Set, Tefnut, Thoth, An, Anshar, Anu, Apsu, Ashur, Damkina, Ea, Enki, Enlil, Ereshkigal, Nunurta, Hadad, Inanna, Ishtar, Kingu, Kishar, Marduk, Mummu, Nabu, Nammu, Nanna, Nergal, Ninhursag, Ninlil, Nintu, Shamash, Sin, Tiamat, Utu, Mitra, Amaterasu, Susanoo, Tsukiyomi, Inari, Tengu, Izanami, Izanagi, Daikoku, Ebisu, Benzaiten, Bishamonten, Fu.kurokuju, Jurojin, Hotei, Quetzalcoatl, Tlaloc, Inti, Kon, Mama Cocha, Mama Quilla, Manco Capac, Pachacamac, Viracoc.ha, or Zaramama.

          • WGB

            ☝️I did not read your comment.

            I stand by my comments. I will pray for you. God bless.

          • Nogods

            Not reading something is a great way to not learn something. Keep up the good work.

          • WGB

            Try reading the Bible and then I may value what you have to say. Right now your opinions are irrelevant and not worth the time it would take to read them.

            God bless and thank you.

          • Nogods

            I have read it. I have taken several university classes on it. I have also studies mythology. Isn’t it interesting how today’s mythology was yesterday’s theology?

            Isn’t it interesting to think that there have been thousands of early questions about our universe that were once explained as “the work of god”. But as we became more educated and learned more about our world, those supernatural answers were replaced with real world answers. The interesting part of this however, is that during this time, NONE of those early questions were actually found to be the work of a god; “God” has NEVER turned out to actually be a correct answer to any question – EVER.

          • WGB

            Pray and ask God for understanding (in Jesus’ name) when you read it. Only read your first line-not interested in reading blasphemy.

          • Nofun

            It is not blasphemy to point out that no phenomena has been found to have a supernatural cause.

          • WGB

            I disagree.

          • Nofun

            What real world phenomena has been found to have a supernatural cause?

          • WGB

            What disproves God’s existence? Outside of your opinions, lol, and the thoughts and opinions of other men and women -all His creation btw-lolol.

          • Nofun

            No real world evidence of any god disproves him.

            A man with 50 heads – no evidence = doesn’t matter
            Flying Dog with Lasers for Eyes – no evidence = doesn’t matter
            God – no evidence = doesn’t matter

          • WGB

            I disagree. You’re absolutely not making any sense.

            Your opinions are of no value to me.

          • Nofun

            Where is your evidence?

          • WGB

            Where is your evidence?

          • Nofun

            The absence of any evidence for your god is my evidence …now what do you have?

            The old “just say it back to them” nonsense just makes you look foolish.

          • WGB

            You’re still not making any sense.

            God bless.

          • Nofun

            Keep up the denial … the problem is that only works for so long …. reality has a habit of pouring in on you no matter what you do to keep it out.

          • WGB

            I hope you accept the Truth of God’s Word before you meet Jesus Christ face-to-face.

            God bless.

          • Nofun

            Free thinkers can’t go back to desperately trying to keep faith constructs afloat. Once the construct has been punctured it can’t be resurrected (ironic really).

            Remember when you first learned that Santa wasn’t true. You had all sorts of ideas of how he got down chimneys and distributed presents.

            Then someone told you.

            You were a little sad then realized it was all made it up. Its not like you go back to believing Santa is real now.

          • WGB

            You’re lost and a slave to sin-hardly free, but you do have free will. You will, however, answer to God as to what you do with that free will.

          • Nofun

            How do you know how much I sin?

            Free will makes no sense in Christianity.

            If you have no free will then we all believe in god and go to heaven. With free will, if you make another choice then you are burnt for eternity.

            So god is just laying a trap for you with free will.

          • WGB

            ☝️Didn’t read. We disagree. Move on. You will never change my mind/beliefs.

          • Nofun

            So you don’t actually examine your own beliefs?

            You don’t have beliefs ,,, they have you.

          • WGB

            You’re NOT making sense. You may need psychiatric help as you have now taken to trolling me over 24 hours after our exchange ended. I feel sorry for you.

            I hope this helps you:

            1 Corinthians 1:18-31
            18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

            19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

            20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

            21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

            22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

            23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

            24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

            25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

            26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

            27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

            28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

            29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

            30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

            31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

          • Nofun

            Did it help you? … it does nothing for me. I, unlike yourself, have read the bible, all of it. Do that and atheism is assured.

            I am not trolling or insulting you

            I just want to save you from wasting the only life you get.

          • WGB

            ☝️did not read (again). I stand by my comments.

          • Nofun

            It must easy to stand by your comments when you are too cowardly to read others comments …… seems your faith is weak and paper thin.

          • Meepestos

            I highly suspect you are engaging with a child, but I could be wrong. I know young christian teens and atheist teens that could come up with more of an original thought and avoid using quotes from the bible and blab on with “You’re still not making any sense. God bless.” Clergy in my family that are agnostic and theists would have a field day with the likes of WGB. Continue with your blasphemy ; ) but lay off Zeus.

          • Nofun

            No … I think it is just a closed, crippled mind.

          • Meepestos

            Seems so.

          • WGB

            I doubt it as they couldn’t do anything with you, but again:

            You’re not making sense. God bless.

          • Meepestos

            Hera bless your marriage and finances; I’ll make a sacrificial cake to save you… I’m thinking of Greek tyme honey yogurt cheesecake. I find it beats praying.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read. You don’t make sense.

            God bless you.

          • Meepestos

            Zeus bless you.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read. You’re still not making sense.

            God bless you.

          • Meepestos

            Zeus bless you.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read. You’re still not making sense.

            God bless you.

          • Meepestos

            How is something not making sense if you didn’t read it? And how do you reply with such a statement, that is superficial like your god character, without reading what is in response to you? I’d like to give it a try.
            Zeus bless you.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read. You’re not making sense.

            God bless you.

          • Meepestos

            Not very Christian of you not sharing how you do that.
            Zeus bless you.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read. You’re still not making sense.

            God bless you.

          • Meepestos

            My apologies, I thought you were a Christian. Seems it’s all Greek to you. Ζεύς bless you.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read. Nothing you say makes sense or is relevant to me. Not sure, why you’re still trolling, lol. Isn’t it passed your bedtime child😂.

            God bless you.

          • Meepestos

            Gotcha! Bye bye.

          • Ken Campbell

            I’m sorry. I didn’t read that. Or: I’m sorry I didn’t read that.

          • Nogods

            Your god is just as talkative as Zeus.

          • WGB

            I disagree. You’re still not making sense.

          • Nogods

            Most Christians believe that their god listens to them and answers their prayers. So if their god heals them in response to prayer, why do Christians have the same life expectancy as everyone else (all other things being equal)? The simple math says that your god does nothing.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your blasphemous comments. We disagree with each other. Move on.

            God bless.

          • Nogods

            More willful ignorance. That is what keeps your god alive.

          • WGB

            I disagree. God bless you. Good night.

          • Nogods

            Unfortunately, it is difficult to use logic and reason to convince someone that they are wrong when logic and reason wasn’t used to convince them that they were right.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your blasphemous comments. We disagree with each other. Move on.

            God bless.

          • Nogods

            If your local sheriff knew that a man down the road was raping young boys every weekend and he never did anything to stop it, even though he had the power to do so, what would you think of him? Christians believe Jesus is god, and all powerful and all knowing, and all good force. He watches ever single child that gets brutally raped. He listens to every cry for help. And he does nothing. So if you condemn the do-nothing sheriff, shouldn’t you also condemn the do-nothing god?

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your comments/trolling. However, this is what I believe and know to be True:

            John 1
            1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
            2 The same was in the beginning with God.
            3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
            4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
            5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
            6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
            7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
            8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
            9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
            10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
            11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
            12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
            13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
            14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
            15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
            16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
            17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
            18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
            19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
            20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
            21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
            22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
            23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
            24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
            25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
            26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
            27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
            28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
            29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
            30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
            31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
            32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
            33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
            34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
            35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
            36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
            37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
            38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
            39 He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.
            40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother.
            41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
            42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
            43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.
            44 Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
            45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
            46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
            47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
            48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
            49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
            50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
            51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

            God bless.

          • Nogods

            Isn’t it odd that there is NOTHING written in the bible that could not have been written by someone living in the 1st century? Why is that? Why is the bible filled with so much utter nonsense.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your comments/trolling.

            For those seeking Truth:
            John 8:12
            I Am the Light of the World
            12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

          • Nogods

            This is one of my favorite bible verses:

            Deuteronomy 21:18-21

            18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

            19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

            20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

            21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

          • WGB

            ☝️didn’t read and will never read your comments/trolling.

            Our hope is in God and it never disappoints:
            Romans 5:5
            5 Such hope [in God’s promises] never disappoints us, because God’s love has been abundantly poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

            God bless.

          • Luminya

            WGB sounds like he was indoctrinated as a child. I think he is old and frightened. I understand because my older relatives think this way and they are absolutely terrified of going to hell. It is so sad. You have made a heroic attempt to try to reason with him. Perhaps some of the seeds you have dropped will find fertile ground. Matt Dillahunty says that our minds can be changed, and I think he is right. It was reading the books of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse that changed my thinking forever and I am so grateful to them.

          • Nogods

            Nice to hear your story. An education is a cure for ignorance. It is sad to see how fearful some people are of information.

          • Luminya

            That is really not an argument. Most atheists have read the bible and know it much better than theists.

          • WGB

            The same applies to you. For some reason you people believe everyone is here to argue, lol, or that we owe you an explanation as to why we believe in God. We don’t.

            And then you troll Christians as if that will stop us from believing in Jesus Christ. It won’t.

            God bless.

          • Luminya

            I am very terrified at the thought of getting coal in my stocking. See how ridiculous that sounds? That is the way your threats are received by atheists, they are empty. When you post foolish ideas expect them to be challenged. This is where religion comes to die, the internet.

          • Nofun

            “The life unexamined is not worth living”. Plato.

          • Steeeevo

            Like a 5 old. Fingers in ears. “LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA…….”

          • Steeeevo

            Ra has always been my favorite. The sun is the only true life giving thing. Ra is a real thing of beauty.

        • Nofun

          How do you know the Christian god is the one true god …. there have been many …… no real world evidence of any of them, of course.

          • WGB

            How do you know He’s not?

            *Your comment is very unoriginal and cliche.

          • Nofun

            I just want to know what evidence you have of this god you are having a personal relationship with. Not his creation ….him.

          • WGB

            I just want to know what evidence you have (aside from your opinions, lol, and the thoughts and opinions of other men and women -all His creation btw-lolol) that He does not exist?

            fyi-I don’t owe you an explanation for my beliefs, LOL. Your arrogance in demanding one is hilarious.

          • Nofun

            There is not one shred of real world evidence for any gods ever. The absence of evidence is evidence of absence. God is just a faith construct …. stop believing and he disappears and leaves no hole.

          • WGB

            I disagree. ☝️Didn’t read your entire comment.

            God bless.

          • Nofun

            2 sentences too much for you, hey

          • WGB

            Still not making sense.

          • Nofun

            I see… your method of staying Christian is to ignore everything anyone says and never testing faith against reality.

          • WGB

            I disagree. FYI – I don’t owe you an explanation for my beliefs, LOL. Your arrogance in demanding one is hilarious and your ignorance in doubting God is pitiful. I’ll pray for you, but I won’t argue with you child.

            God bless.

          • Nofun

            No, you don’t owe me anything … don’t you think you owe to yourself?

            If I am wrong to doubt god show me some evidence of him?

          • WGB

            You doubt. I know and I am confident and secure in what I believe. Work out your disbelief, but don’t try to force your misery, hate, and disbelief on others-go to hell by yourself if you so choose, why try to take others with you.

            Why would anyone believe you/man over God? That just doesn’t make sense. I wish you well, but your logic is skewed and completely off.

            Show me evidence to the contrary.

            God bless.

          • Nofun

            I am real. God isn’t … unless you have some evidence for him … which to date you not provided or even try to provide.

            I am just trying to save you .. I am motivated by nothing but love.

          • WGB

            You’re not making sense. ☝️didn’t read your entire comment.

          • Nofun

            So how do you know it makes no sense? You aren’t lying are you ….tsk tsk …baby jesus is crying.

          • WGB

            Your ramblings are boring and predictable.

            God bless.

          • Luminya

            The way that you say “god bless” kind of reminds me how Spock said “live long and prosper” to the Vulcan elders.

          • WGB

            You’re not making sense.☝️did not and will not read your comments moving forward.

            God bless.

          • Luminya

            Lol, how do you know my comments make no sense if you did not read them???

          • Luminya

            You are the one making the assertion, therefore the burden of proof rests completely with you. Nogods is under no obligation to believe you. If I said I personally knew the Kraken would you not require proof before you believed me?

          • WGB

            ☝️I did not read your comment…
            …but, I pray that you move away from witchcraft, hate, manipulation, and lies in Jesus name. There is no distance in prayer. I pray that you give your life to Jesus Christ and serve Him with your whole heart in Jesus name.

            God bless you.

        • Luminya

          No, you are not making any sense. Think carefully, how do you know you are worshipping the right god? If you were raised in a christian household you would worship the christian god. If you were raised in another household in another part of the world you would be worshipping another god. You could easily spend your whole life worshipping the wrong god.

          • WGB

            ☝️I did not read your comment. You don’t make sense.

            God bless you.

  • concern

    A sign of things to come, base on “Equal Rights”…what’s next? another woman winning the right to wear her panties on her head. Stay tuned….

    • Nofun

      You get to wear torture symbols around your neck in the name of religion … so why not.

      Judge ye not.

      • concern

        and what “torture symbol” are you referring to?

        • Nofun

          Crucifixes.

          • concern

            meaning the Cross?

          • Nofun

            What else?

          • concern

            I see, I guess that’s why you are “Nofun”? you are not a believer in Jesus Christ, His Birth,death , burial and resurrection?

          • Nofun

            Yes, delusion is fun. But you need to set boundaries as you can’t waste the only life you get pretending to be someone you are not.

          • concern

            Ok…

          • tyler

            hypothetically if Jesus came back (he won’t), the last thing he’d want to see is a depiction of the crucifix on which he died. Just sayin…

  • Mary Waterton

    Only an atheist would think that making YOURSELF look like an idiot is an insult to Christianity.

    • Nofun

      One must suffer all kinds of indignities to free minds.

  • tyler

    good for her. That is hilarious!
    Cry me a river whining Christians – it’s a joke.

  • Kenneth Hanson

    The power of love, redemption and forgiveness will never, ever come from wearing a colander on your head. “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Amen.

    • Nofun

      Biblical false promises and threats really mean very little.

      Why waste the only life you get living in fear of faith construct?

    • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

      Nor will universal love, mercy, justice, and forgiveness ever come from exclusive dogma.

      As a character in my novel said:

      The Graveyard of History is strewn with the bleached bones of dead gods, each and every one laid low by the Broadsword of Disbelief. And for whom shall the requiem play next? It shall play for thee, dear Yahweh, and for all of our gods du jour. For the forgotten gods of antiquity were once the living gods of today, and the living gods of today shall tomorrow be the forgotten gods of antiquity.

      It must be understood, therefore, that universal empathy, peace, and love,
      can be achieved only through reason, and reason shall reign only when the gravediggers
      have no more gods to bury.

  • Rev Donald Spitz

    She may be having her fun now, but: Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

    • Nofun

      God may have a sense of humor while conservative don’t.

  • Satan

    Look at the fat girl that cannot leave home without cookware atop her snout. And she’s perspiring too, just like a fat sow! Gross. Not to mention her face looks like a braille reader. Totally gross.

    • Nofun

      Yes, another open minded, not at all misogynist, right wing Christian.

      • Satan

        Bahahahahahahahahahahaha try again!

    • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

      It is quite common among Christian conservatives to attack the person and how he looks rather than offer thoughtful, objective arguments. It is far more noble to avoid dwelling in intellectual gutters, but have the personal integrity to offer a pensive, logical response.

      Are you in the habit of judging others on how they look, criticizing their physical properties over which they may have no control? Do your friends know that about you?

      • Satan

        Yes, when you not only choose to wear cookware upon yer snout, but go to court, wasting time on a frivolous lawsuit, you will be judged accordingly. This she-beast desperately needs to STOP eating the pasta, wire her snout shut, n drink some veggie shakes. And perhaps a Lil exercise and she wouldn’t perspire just by sitting looking like a disgusting sow ready to chew her cud. There is nothing that disgusts me more than this grotesque display of idiocy. Thanx for getting in touch Max.

        • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

          My word. You must be a big fan of Donald Trump, or the next most sneering bully in the race–Cruz perhaps?

          • Satan

            Trump/Cruz 2016 Make America Great Again!! 🙂

            Lemme guess you’re for Burned out Bernie or the criminal? Liars n frauds.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

            That’s what I thought. You like our corporate owned government. I suppose that, like Trump and Cruz, you know little to nothing about economics (especially supply-side economics) and foreign affairs, but support the candidates who thumb the Bible and spike your thirst for vengeance against all who don’t think like you. Too, you like Trump’s bullying and uncivil attitude.

            Tell me, what has Bernie lied about and whom has he maligned and what is his main agenda?

          • Satan

            You’re a colossal moron. I’m not Christian. And I’m a moderate — as is Trump. Trump, who thoroughly comprehends economics, international economics, imports and exports. And the difference between the two. He’ll bring back companies n jobs which will help three fold by tax collection on these companies, jobs they provide, and any exports they may connect to which in turn will bolster our USD. Maybe then we can stop terrorizing the middle east n destabilizing them for the almighty petro dollar. But, that’ll truly be a feat. Oh n no I’m not for corrupt capitalism aka corporate welfare, but socialism is just as corrupt as the haves will always have. I treasure my freedom of speech n my RIGHT to bear arms. Corrupt Hilary n dimwitted socialist Bernie will spell complete doom for America.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            I have a novel idea: let’s have a civil debate and toss out the desire to condescend. I don’t think anyone gains ground that way, but instead adds to the glut in the gutter of the information superhighway.

            We do not need to be condescending and hostile. Just offer convincing arguments.

            Yes, Trump understands business, but the U.S. isn’t a business and Putin and Xi Jinping aren’t business competitors and nor are they reporters whom one can humiliate and bully with impunity.

            His policies, so far, seem to be rather disastrous–although I need further research.

            According to two sites I visited to do research on Trump’s tax reform plan, it would raise the income level some 6% or 7% for the average American worker, but that does not raise the working poor out of poverty. Too, it would knock a $12 trillion hole in revenues. I doubt very seriously that his import-export plan would cover that. So, what government departments is he wanting to toss out? Seems he is quite vague on details.

            On campaign finance reform, he wants to stop all donations from any group and allow unlimited donations from individuals. That, of course, would change virtually nothing since only the wealthy would influence campaigns–as it is now.

            He wants less government regulation (no comment on what regulations he’d cut)–shades of supply-side economics which led to the Great Recession of 2007-8.

            He favors the government providing for public convenience (transportation, public works) and safety (police and firefighters)–in other words, some socialism. Seems he left out the military and the Veterans Adm. I reckon he wants to privatize them for profit?

            In 1999, he proposed a one-time 14.25% tax on wealth, to erase national debt. I don’t know if he still favors that, and even if he did, would cover the $12 trillion loss of revenue–and our national debt is already over $17 trillion?

            What policies is he suggesting, other than imports-exports, that will create jobs in America? Has he mentioned infrastructure?

            Is he for having corporations pay a living wage? Just creating jobs isn’t the panacea, it is creating living-wage jobs and thereby greatly reducing the need for government assistance. Otherwise, we only increase the ranks of the working poor and the need for more assistance to take up the slack created by low wages.

            Maybe then we can stop terrorizing the middle east n destabilizing them for the almighty petro dollar.

            I’m all for that. Bernie Sanders is as well. Hillary is not and nor are most others running.

          • Satan

            Bernie Sanders promises what he cannot deliver. I will not pay for some snot nosed brat to go to college. These kids today are lazy n inept. Work like I did cupcakes. Trumps tax plan is 14% across the boards, with 20% for businesses, n no tax for family of 4 under 36k. He has stated he will increase taxes on the hedge fund ppl n regulate the banking crap. He will not go to war unless absolutely needed. He will bring companies back here. I’m so incredibly tired of every single item I look at Made in China. My mallomars are made in Canada. We NEED to start making things. Must. I think we can increase the minimum wage to 10 bux an hour, but increase others a bit then too — which Trump doesn’t see. I don’t get the impression he’ll repeat Reagan’s ‘supply side’ shyt. But, why are we debating? This was a piece about a incredibly stupid and rude lady wearing a piece of cookware upon her head. I don’t think Trump will insult or make fun of other leaders. I also think he’ll get advisors n listen to em. Bernie just keeps promising silly things. I’m sorry, but if you’re planning to go into law, medical, business you may find recruiters to pay yer freight. These students MUST BEGIN to learn the cost of things. As well as the value. It is detrimental to provide free education. It does not teach the correct characteristics. And I don’t care how much education yee have got, doesn’t mean her wise. Health care: i, who do not have Obamacare am being impacted by it. How? The Rx ppl are substituting different manufacturers — they were generic already!, but still lessor manufacturers and I’m having all kinds of side effects. And they do not care. I am forced to mail away to 90 day ppl, except 1st time Rx. Do Dr writes for Tizanadine for ex, I got to Marc fill it n it works fine, now I gotta mail away for it from now on, I get it and within one week my muscles are clenched in a ball n I need trigger point injection — which they don’t pay for so they don’t care, this happened with my flexaril I’m using for years before that and 5 other medications. Never in all my years! So, socialized medicine to me means less quality, less individuality, less care, more suffering. Plus, you hit a certain age n get cancer, over 70– they won’t treat you, yer worthless. No, I do not want socialized medicine or anything else socialized. Bernie wants us all on low grade government shyt, so we get what they give n if it don’t work, phuck you. It’s sad to me that anyone would want such a think. Now, I want Trump/Cruz bc that’s brains&balls/brains. Cruz will hit the Corporate welfare. He claims he spoke with the CEO of Boeing and they don’t even think they need it!! Maybe we can talk to these players n get them off the government teet, n have REAL capitalism, not corrupt crony capitalism. Ok, uhm…. Obama has unemployment at about 24%, he just signed executive order encouraging companies to hire HI4 Visa ppl n another Visa ppl over Americans. He hates America n Americans n YT. Bernie will be more of the same. He’s got no plan at all to stimulate economy. What is his plan? I think ppl need jobs. We need some of these companies to leave China, n Vietnam, n Mexico n come back here. Trump would make it so. Even if he put details in trade deals. Bernie lives in fairy land, in academia. And, we NEED a wall. Big Ag can no longer get the cheap illegal labor n why should American taxpayer foot the bill for these ppl? Look at police blotters in South Carolina , Texas, Arizona and you’ll see 97% of their arrests are illegals for drunk driving. And sexual assault of minors. So, we’re paying human cost for that as well as monetary for cops to arrest them, jail em, lawyer them, court em, the whole shebang. Why? Phuck that. And those are just the 3 states I’ve looked at in detail. The weekend blotter. South Carolina was like about 75% illegals for those arrests, 2 others the higher. Uhm…. idk I’m tired. I’m sure I’ll think of more. And I’m a registered Dem, not happy with what I see, n Trump imo is a moderate.

          • http://maxfur.com/ Max T. Furr

            Look, education is the key to a better future for underprivileged kids AND the key to a better future for America.

            These kids today are lazy n inept. Work like I did cupcakes.

            Two fallacious arguments in that statement. First, Your condemnation of kids as lazy and inept has no basis and assumes that you know all children and their situations. Too, it assumes that all children have nurturing parents and are not psychologically stunted by environmental influences.

            I have to say, as well, that you are saying that kids who can be helped out of poverty do not deserve a good education–or are you saying that poor children in general should be ignored if they can’t make it on their own. In addition, you are saying that kids who struggle and have to borrow money to be succeed in graduation should be saddled with a huge debt that will take years to pay off. Your argument suggests that a poor person’s higher education should remain a profit source for the big banks.

            I’ve no tolerance for the view that children and their health should be marketable products on Wall Street, and if a profit cannot be made, they should be cast aside.

            Secondly, your second sentence is a fallacious, inductive argument. You are assuming that all children have the opportunities, the nurturing, and the ability (physically and mentally) as you. This is demonstrably false.

            As for Trump, he would need the congress to back him up just as would Sanders, and the current corporatist congress would not likely go along with him on forcing corporations to return their factories to America (as democrats would like to see but conservatives will not allow legislation to that end), unless, of course, he gave them the incentive to do so by both the tariff (conservatives are solidly against that) and killing minimum wage and environmental laws.

            Make American workers’ income the same as in China or Bangladesh and corporations would come running back. And then, of course, we could have dirty skies and rivers just like China’s industrial areas, a massive working poor class like China, and the billionaires can look forward to becoming trillionaires.

            Bernie just keeps promising silly things.

            Okay, I reckon that should be the last thing to which I respond. Obviously you believe, as do all corporatists conservatives, that Wall Street should own our Congress. You favor a corporatocracy, a Kleptocracy, an Oligarchy and/or a Plutocracy. With your attitude and enough voters of your ilk, we definitely will never recover our Republic. Personally, I think your ilk is winning.

          • Satan

            Definitely hope Trump gets in there. I don’t spend the time you do analyzing idiocy! None of us have good homes, all of us had debt. You want something, YOU pay for it. Not me, the taxpayer. And I’ve enough problems of my own, that I could not possibly care about ‘shyt’ like that. I’m more worried about a dairy cow. College is over rated, and not necessary to many jobs requiring it! To do anything ‘professional’ you need a further degree, or there’s trade school, the best thing ever. Always in demand, provides a stable job, n union benefits. I lmfao at all yer assumptions. Lmfao. Eyerolls.
            TRUMP/CRUZ 2016

          • Satan

            Where is the rest of my reply? Do you see past the illegals. Bc it went on for a bit. I don’t see it.

          • http://maxfur.com/ Max T. Furr

            Your reply ended with:

            Oh n no I’m not for corrupt capitalism aka corporate welfare, but socialism is just as corrupt as the haves will always have. I treasure my freedom of speech n my RIGHT to bear arms. Corrupt Hilary n dimwitted socialist Bernie will spell complete doom for America.

            First, the “corrupt capitalism” goes well beyond corporate welfare. Secondly, you and and a great many (most?) conservatives clearly do not understand socialism. You tend to think the definition is virtually the same as the old Soviet Union style of communism.

            Secondly, your comment demonstrates quite clearly that you do not listen to Sanders and you have done NO research on his views. You seem to be responding only to the fact that he calls himself a Democratic Socialist, and yet you have not bothered to learn what that means.

            To condescend to someone without knowing their views is intellectual dishonesty. I think I gave you the means to find his speech on Democratic Socialism, but you didn’t bother. You’d rather condescend and hate him out of willful ignorance. I find both willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty to be very abhorrent.

            For your edification, Sanders has voted against gun control legislation several (perhaps many) times, and I agree with him on those issues I’ve read.

            Also, he wants to blow up the money pipeline that flows from Wall Street to congressional pockets and disallow corporations from writing legislation or influencing their legislation in order to fill it full of loopholes. He does NOT want to destroy capitalism, but to control it to the extent it conforms with the American ideal of economic justice.

            Any rise in the GDP means workers have produced more value (wealth). All Sanders is saying, correctly, is that since the late 70s up to now (coinciding with the rise of the neoconservatives), virtually all the wealth created by the working class has been redistributed to the upper 1% (parentheses mine).

            All he is asking is that the workers get income equity for the value they produce. The income of the wealthy rises 3%, then the income of the workers rises 3%, but beginning with a living wage–the government should not have to subsidize worker’s pay in order for them to provide for their families.

            I’m not clear why this is so abhorrent to the right.

          • Satan

            I’ve heard his video on democratic socialism. I think it’s one step from communism. I don’t trust Bernie. I think he says many great things, but I don’t feel they’re realistic. I also don’t think ANY president will be able to fully get corporations off of us. I believe in a powerful elite, n they may compromise but they will not give up control without a fight. I think Bernie is with them. I just do. Where does Bernie gets his donations from Max?

          • http://maxfur.com/ Max T. Furr

            The workers who produce the wealth in the Nation getting a equitable share of the profits is next to communism??? And you can’t trust Sanders? Look at his past campaigns. He has NEVER changed his message with the shifting political winds as all other candidates have. You can certainly disagree with his views, but how can you not trust that he means what he says?

            You are correct. Corporations will always find some way of influencing some politicians, but with proper laws and oversight in place (including sending CEOs to jail), corporate influence can be reduced a great deal. I am for that. He would, however, need a congress to back him up, and unfortunately, that isn’t a conservative congress.

            The evidence is clear. I’m sure you’ve noticed that when Obama came into office at the onset of the Great Recession–when 10s of thousands were losing their jobs–as McConnell famously said, “Our number one priority is to limit the president on a single term.”

            Limbaugh said (repeated by some conservatives at the time) that he wanted Obama to fail [in restoring jobs and the economy].

            Thus, at the outset, the conservatives placed their number one priority as making Obama look bad by their voting and filibustering against every bill that might help the American workers and improve the economy.

            If the economy improved under Obama, he would be a shoo-in for the 2012 election and that was unacceptable to them. Thus, they had to cause him to fail–by keeping the economy in the toilet and blaming it on him.

            Sanders campaign dollars, and that of all candidates, as I stated on my last reply to you, can be traced at Open Secrets dot org.

            Be well.

          • Satan

            Obama is an evil, treasonous, Islamic terroristic devil. Anyone that can stop his destruction of America is thanked. And, once again you are incorrect. All your bought Democrats AND bought Republicans vote with him all the time. As we see with being sent hundreds of thousands of “refugees” each year, a mixed bag of paid off fools voted to keep Islamifying. They voted for an Iran deal. They pushed thru a trade deal. Bernie doesn’t speak on International trade bc he’s too focused on promising free stuff. That will ALL come at the expense of the middle class taxpayer, NOT ANY WEALTHY OR CORPORATIONS! As I’m sure you’re well aware. So keep subverting, ya don’t fool me. And God willing (:-)) you and yer subversive commies lose and Trump wins, and we start charging in courts of law your subversive activities.

          • http://maxfur.com/ Max T. Furr

            Wow, have you been radicalized! But then, that is a reflection of very effective propaganda. Gingrich and Goebbels would be very proud.

            And, I’m completely on your side wanting Trump to win the nomination. I hope, as well, that Clinton implodes. That would certainly put Sanders in the White House because the vast majority of voters can’t be so mindless and indifferent to the suffering of others as to vote for Trump. Besides, it is Sanders who wants Corporations to work for the consumer, not themselves. I’m sorry you cannot see that, but are twisted in knots by your fear of the word “socialist.”

          • Satan

            Lmao you condone robbery, rape, assault, n murder!! Obama would be pleased. Weak on crime, wasting my hard earned money feeding these completely worthless violent criminals.

            At some point Max, you need to grow up. Realize that life has consequences and we live in reality not some sunny utopia. Liberals make me laugh. They get into office with such zeal to execute THEIR IDEAS!!!!!!! And they fail in everything they do, and they simply cannot see that they are doing the SAME EXACTLY things as the idiot before them. It’s like not having eyes and noses. Truly incomprehensible. Take responsibility for your failures, realize in order to stay alive you must eat, in order to eat you must grow food n hunt or buy it. In order to do this you need money. Sit in chair. Think what would you be good at? Seek training, an entry level job, an apprenticeship, a scholarship, a grant, a loan and go get em!!! Then you can reach in your pocket and care for yourself. No other country gives as much to their inept ingrates as USA. Germany gives a lot, as does Sweden.

            I’d love to send these black lies matter frauds to Somalia and Sierra Leone for one year. Then when they return maybe they can get their arse in gear. When you know you can take it out of Billy’s pocket, it’s easier to do just that! No, unless you’re disabled or temporarily down on luck. Not a permanent option. Bernie will probably win the presidency bc we have so many academic, theoretical, fantasy dwellers that live in fairy land. Well, you won’t get any more of my money.

          • Satan

            But, that is a good point. I must find out for sure. Does my beloved Trump support corporate welfare? Could it be? Et tu Trumpy? I think he’ll improve what we got now, but idk about the corporate welfare. Cruz doesn’t approve of corporate welfare. I heard him say it. On youtube. Anyway, I’m going to sleep. We need a strong leader. Oh, n Trump supports removing infringement upon my right to protect myself with a gun. Living in the rotten apple I’m a walking target, defenseless to all stronger. And I feel my state, most states engage in state sanctioned rape. And other crimes. What is that? It’s when an animal rapes someone and they let it out of jail to rape or murder or hurt others again. Here’s an original Satan quote, well really Goddess of Wind:

            America, Land of No Consequences, Home of the Enabler, where Criminals have a bill of Rights and victims rights are non-existent. ~ Me

          • http://maxfur.com/ Max T. Furr

            Thank you for that civil response. I do appreciate it. Ignore my last post.

            Trump has gone bankrupt several times and admits to using the system to his advantage (it is rigged to bail out corporations/investors, but not the average American). I’ve no doubt he accepts all corporate welfare as well (why not–like the bankruptcy laws, it’s legal), though I haven’t investigated that.

            And yes, Cruz and all Republicans will SAY they do not approve, but they voted down legislation that would have stripped Big Oil of the 8 billion a year in taxpayer dollars they get. Why do you think the Koch Bro’s are on the conservative side? They ARE Big Oil. Check to see if Cruz gets any money from Americans for Prosperity. That should tell you all you need to know about Cruz.

            Also, Hillary Clinton plays down her pillow talk with the Wall Street financial institutions. They are her top donors, but you won’t hear her admit that. In the debate, she agreed that she would break them up if they don’t “follow the rules.” Well, hell, they write their own rules.

            Since the Republican Congress and Bill Clinton passed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act that effectively killed the Glass-Steagall Act (which prevented banks from speculating with with OUR deposits), the banks are once again doing exactly what they did that was a major factor in bringing on the Great Recession of 2008.

            But to state it again, Sanders is the ONLY candidate who wants to end all corporate-government interface except on an advisory and project-bid bases. Too, he wants to end corporate welfare and break up the too-big-to-fail corporations.

          • Satan

            I don’t think Sanders has what it takes to get the job done. Trump has long ago stated 4 of his 80,000 businesses declared bankruptcy. And as he said, why not? He was a businessman and doing what was best for those businesses to cut losses. He further stated, that that is part of the problem!!! Lmao that businessmen have loopholes etc and he intends to rectify that. He puts it as he knows all the tricks and as President he’d do the best job for that position — which is getting America back on track. I have faith he will, but I will delve further into the corporate subsidies. Clinton deregulated banks. Hilary is a liar n gets money from Islamic nations n Wall Street. I believe Cruz has integrity. Rare these days. Not Rubio– Rubio does not have integrity. Say, where does Ole Bernie get his funds from?*smiles prettily*

          • http://maxfur.com/ Max T. Furr

            Again, the U.S. is not a business. The sole purpose of a business is profit. The sole intent of a corporation is profit. Yes, while that is economic prosperity, it is prosperity only for a few–investors/owners and upper-tier management.

            Since the Republicans turned economics on its head in the late 70s and early 80s (supply side economics), and convinced many millions of low-income voters that it would be good for them, the income of the American worker has virtually flatlined while the income of the wealthy continued to grow, creating an ever widening income gap and increasing the ranks of the working poor. I’d give you the graphics, but that isn’t allowed on Disque.

            I do favor Trumps advocacy of greater taxation on hedge fund manager. That is very popular and virtually all candidates support it. But none of the candidates are hedge fund managers, and trumps overall tax plan would still gouge a $10 Trillion deeper hole in the deficit while continuing to create a greater income disparity.

            Thus, likely it would inspire corporations to hire more people, but as I said earlier, more jobs at poverty wages do not lift the working poor out of poverty, but instead, makes a much larger class of working poor generating more wealth for the wealthy.

            Trump on entitlements:

            As Republicans, if you think you are going to change very substantially for the worse Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security in any substantial way, and at the same time you think you are going to win elections, it just really is not going to happen. . . What we have to do and the way we solve our problems it to build a great economy.

            But, again, adding more poverty-wage jobs will grow the economy only for the upper classes and the wealthy, but it will not grow the economy for the working poor and the taxpayer is still having to subsidize their income so that corporate profits will grow, making the wealthy wealthier.

            Personally, I think the only candidate who is trustworthy, honest, and has empathy for the working poor is Sanders. Virtually everyone in America is, unknowingly, a socialist to some degree, but only Sanders will admit it.

            And speaking of Sanders, his views on the economy are very close to those of Elizabeth Warren and Paul Krugman. Krugman was exactly correct on the way to pull out of the Great Recession of 2008 with a robust recovery (massive government spending–the bailout was necessary, just not nearly as much as was needed) and Warren is likely the most knowledgeable person in Congress on economics.

            As a “top Republican-leaning Wall Street lawyer” told Politico, “If [the general election] turns out to be Jeb versus Hillary we would love that and either outcome would be fine,”

          • Satan

            Yeah, ok. Income inequality. You see, some folks, with more skills will earn more than other folks with less skills. And the world goes round. Deal with it.

          • http://maxfur.com/ Max T. Furr

            Say, where does Ole Bernie get his funds from?*smiles prettily*

            Check Open Secrets dot org. You can follow the money of every candidate (be sure you have the 2016 pages because they have past ones as well.

            –smiles handsomely– 😀

          • Satan

            All the unions

          • http://maxfur.com/ Max T. Furr

            No, just some of them.

            But, you’d rather have Wall Street (self-serving, for large profit only corporations) funding the candidates but not Unions (American workers)? You do know, do you not, that Wall Street’s financing (as well as very wealthy individuals) far, far overpowers anything that the unions could put up?

            Yes, I have to admit that I am for income parity in the U.S. I want to see, once again, an America where one person in the family can make enough money in ONE job such that he/she can support the family, have affordable, family health insurance, send the kids to college, and still have enough to save and take the family on a vacation. But ever since the late 70s, this ideal has been steadily eroded to the point most families must have both father and mother working and still struggle to get their kids through college.

            I used to be strongly anti-union, until I began to delve into worker history, economics, and corporate-government interface.

            Check your history (especially the Women’s Trade Union League). Virtually all of our working lives have been made far better by Unions and fought bitterly against by corporations and conservatives. It was mainly the unions (yes, some union leaders were corrupt) that brought us:

            The 40 hour work week;

            Weekends with the family;

            Child labor laws;

            Employer-based health coverage (not the most desirable because single payer would remove the employer from the equation and make policies cost far less for everyone);

            Family medical leave;

            The minimum wage;

            Rest breaks at work;

            Workplace safety;

            Social Security (so the elderly and the sick can die with dignity);

            Overtime pay;

            Whistleblower Protection Laws (something our government ignores when the whistle is blown on them);

            The end of sweatshops in the U.S (coinciding with Child Labor Laws).

            ——————–

            These certainly not all, but that’s enough for now. Consider your position were it not for most of these laws and corporations were allowed to pay as little as possible–even to having children working for pennies on the dollar in sweatshops. Consider how it would be if corporations were not responsible for workplace safety, but just tell their employees to be careful, “we ain’t paying no medical bills.”

            And, since the introduction of supply side economics, triggering the decline in income parity, conservatives have been steadily chipping away at these laws, stifling unions and redistributing the collective wealth of the middle class upward to the few and the already wealthy.

            It is very sad that so many Americans do not learn these things in high school.

          • Satan

            I don’t view Trump as a conservative. I don’t have a problem with unions. And just yesterday I told some odd man that without unions they’d pay us $1 per day. I sought put a union job exactly for the pension n health benefits. And now that Obamacare exists I cannot get many of my medications bc MY supplier is trying to make up for the money they LOSE on those policies n premiums. So, a single payer medical system, again, will reduce choice n options, reduce quality of care. Why should Dr’s go to medical school, n pay their bills for their practice to be paid the lowest amount by a government payer. Seeing the havoc Obamacare has reeked upon many acquaintances proves to me that it is not a viable option for me and just another reason I would never vote Sanders. And I have no interest in raising burger flippers salary to an astronomical 15 bux per hour, while an iron welder gers no benefit! I have no interest in paying for 18-? Yo to waffle about in college. They provide no benefit to me, and I am CERTAIN will increase the taxes taken from MY EARNINGS ! It’s funny how folks like you find that morally acceptable. You condone robbery. And Bernie’s view on crime, well why don’t we give them another chance. State sanctioned rape, robbery, n murder! How about we convey to American parents — bc it IS UNIQUE to Americans for the most part to treat their children like babies. At 18 you are not a “kid”, but today’s young men n women ARE. Bc they are not raised up properly. And yes I’d be nice to have one worker n one home person, but I don’t see that happening with Bernie. I see US being invaded n overrun bc Bernie comes off as a mealy peely pot smoking hippy. That dreams of gang raping women. No, he’ll never get my vote.

          • http://maxfur.com/ Max T. Furr

            We certainly see eye to eye on Sanders not being conservative, although he is perhaps more conservative on gun regulations than most progressives, me included.

            I don’t know about your particular situation with health care, but I do know and understand that some people have seen a small increase in premiums and blame it on the ACA, but they tend to forget that insurance companies, before the ACA, were raising their premiums yearly and sometimes by double digit percentages. Overall, however, the increase in healthcare premiums are, last I read, much less than before the ACA.

            I understand, as well, that thousands of people lost their policies because they did not meet the minimum requirements of the ACA, but those policies were considered “junk policies.” It would be beneficial for you to read up on Wendell Potter’s comments on the health insurance industry. He was head of communications for the insurance giant, Cigna, until he became disgusted with the industry’s tactics, and thus became a whistleblower.

            It appears to me that, by and large, those who did lose their policies were those who were able to afford a little more–if it did cost a bit more. I certainly accept that because millions of people who were unable to afford the usual health insurance industry’s premiums can now afford the basic policies. I suppose it is a utilitarian position, but and inconvenience for the few does not outweigh the health of the many. I am one who wants a “we” society, not a “me” society. I am for helping the less fortunate even if it costs me a bit more.

            For me and my wife, however, we are in that gap where our income is too high to qualify for insurance through the ACA, but not high enough to afford a policy outside the ACA. My wife does have a supplement through AARP, but I do not.

            As for single payer, fewer options is very acceptable to me so long as those options are good ones. Keep in mind that the government is not interested in making profits. Private corporations are not interested in people, their sole interest is profit. The pharmaceutical industry, for example, charge virtually whatever they want for a patented drug and make huge profits as a result.

            Health Insurance companies have a history of denying coverage they were supposed to cover. Potter, for example, noted some time ago that the industry has a “screening process” such that when a major claim is made, they first go back in the medical history of the claimant and look for even the smallest errors or omissions on his applications. If the claimant, for example, failed (forgot) to include a tonsillectomy he had as a child, they would deny his claim even if it had absolutely nothing to do with his current health issue.

            Then, of course, there were the industry’s favorite, “pre-existing conditions” and cancelled policies because of loss of a job and the inability to keep up the premiums.

            My own experience with corporate health insurance has been what I just stated above and changing policies without notice; i,e, telling me that if I ever use the emergency room, unless it’s a life or death situation, they would not cover it. So, were I to be injured, I would have to make the decision a doctor would be needed to make or I’d be hit with a substantial bill.

            So, no! Absolutely not! The Insurance industry was NOT in the business of healthCARE, but profit. I’m happy that you are satisfied with that.

            So, okay, I’ll not address your hateful, uncivil, ignorant, and Fox “news” inspired attack. You have no interest at all in civil communication, so I’ll leave it at that.

          • Satan

            Nope, I’m done with ya! Yer a socialist. A commie. And you should be imprisoned, unless we create dungeons. Sorry! Gotta put subversive, theiving supporters of crime somewhere! Preferably somewhere dank n dark.

  • Paul Allen

    Let her enjoy her victory…that of appearing to be a complete idiot.

    • Nofun

      You mean religion is stupid … seems her plan worked.

  • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

    LOL! Oh I do love Lindsay Miller’s tenacity and enthusiasm.

    From the condescending comments I’m reading here, it is quite clear that many Christians do not recognize their own use of “religious freedom” to impose their beliefs on the rest of society. At least Lindsay was not imposing her view on others, i.e., like placing colander monument to the Flying Spaghetti Monster on public property.

  • Kenneth Hanson

    There is but one God. The rest are just copycats. God provides the creed and thought process that promotes universal love, mercy, justice, and forgiveness. God advocates reason and provides us with the capacity to discover the knowledge we humans take for granted. Jesus knows the truth, and since we are created in His image, he has revealed swathes of His knowledge in us; it is what He needs us to know.

    • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr

      There is but one God. The rest are just copycats.

      You do realize, of course, that most of the followers of those other religions would say the very same thing?

      Why would they say that? For the same reason you say that, i.e., most likely you were taught from tothood to believe that–as were they. Theirs is as much “truth” as is yours. What objective evidence could you give that they could not?

  • Kenneth Hanson

    There really is only one God. We all just take different pathways to find Him. I actually became a Christian in adulthood and also have a degree in Social Science. I love the idea that forgiveness and redemption are possible. Why hate?

    • Nofun

      You can’t pack up all your sins on some guy who was nailed to a bit of wood 2000 years and pretend they never existed. Adults should be responsible for all their actions.

  • Kenneth Hanson

    I actually feel sorry for the atheists and non-believers. The joy (and I really do mean joy) of the Lord when it comes upon you brings peace to your soul. Rejoice! The Lord will find you!

    • Nofun

      Its is manufactured joy .. which is seems good enough for some.

      You don’t have a soul.

      • Kenneth Hanson

        Experience and feel the joy of our Lord. Nourish your soul with joy and enlightenment. Replace hate with love and war with peace and bring equality to all of His people on this planet with whom we share.

        • Nofun

          Plenty of christian hate here for this woman.

          Christianity is not about equality especially for women.

          Christianity has been good at war …peace not so much.

          • Kenneth Hanson

            In England we have ordained female Anglican vicars and Bishops. The Church of England is enlightened and listens to the teachings of our Lord. It is not God who goes to war but men.

          • Nofun

            Yea, England … how about every other Christian country on earth. The bible has women being second class at all times. She has to obey her husband, cover their heads and be quiet in church … they even named Evil after Eve and thus blame her the original sin.

            Christian Malleus Maleficarum:

            “But the natural reason is that she is more carnal than a man,
            as is clear from her many carnal abominations. And it should
            be noted that there was a defect in the formation of the first
            woman, since she was formed from a bent rib, that is, rib of
            the breast, which is bent as it were in a contrary direction
            to a man. And since through this defect she is an imperfect
            animal, she always deceives.”

            it is this hatred of women that led to the mass murder of women by Christians in the witch craze.

          • Kenneth Hanson

            Come on Nofun, this cannot be your best shot surely? All I am asking is that you seek the joy of the Lord. It is real, it is life changing, it is not bigoted and broken, it is sharing love rather than hate. It’s about redemption and forgiveness. Please don’t confuse the nonsense of the Old Testament with the wonders of contemporary Christianity?

          • Nofun

            Come now … are you saying the Old testament is no longer gospel truth?

            That means the jesus prophecy no longer applies nor the 10 commandments.

            That is christian dodge #3.

            Also from the nice new testament:

            “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.”Colossians 3:18

            “But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of every woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God…. any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head …For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair …For a man ought not to cover his head;since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.)” 1 Corinthians 11:2-10

            “Wives, be submissive to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.” Ephesians 5:21-24

            “…the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not
            permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If
            there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at
            home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.” 1 Corinthians
            14:34-35

            “Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.” 1 Timothy 2:11-15

            “Wives, be subject to your husband, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them. Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord. Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged. Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in singleness of heart, fearing the Lord.” Colossians 3:18-22

            “….and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be sensible, chaste, domestic, kind, and submissive to their husbands, that the word of God may not be discredited…. Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect…” Titus 2:4-9

            “No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste…” Revelation 14:3-

            You probably are nice people but your dogma is not.

          • Kenneth Hanson

            You have fallen into the trap of taking the Bible literally!
            Just seek the joy of the Lord. The rest takes care of itself!

          • Nofun

            Sorry I am wedded to reality.

            You could get a lobotomy and be 10 times as happy. Yo would never stop giggling.

            Is drunk man happier than a sober one? Sure but who wants to be a drunk?

            I do not say these things to mock you.

      • Kenneth Hanson

        You cannot manufacture joy! Let the joy of our Lord flood into your soul. Once lit, never extinguished!

        • Nofun

          Sure you can.

          Its like laughing clubs where you sit around and manufacture laughter.

          Save your emotions for human beings and reality not faith constructs.

          Actually once the faith construct is no longer believed it disappears and leaves no hole i.e. extinguished forever.

          • Kenneth Hanson

            You could burn every Bible on this planet, sack and close every place of worship, turn the clock forward 2000 years and the power and love of the Lord will still be with us. Reach out and give Him a try. The joy will nourish your sceptical soul!

          • Nofun

            Stop playing the victim, no one is burning sown your churches (except southern right wingers burning down black churches).

            The point is if you stop believing in the faith construct it instantly disappears and can never be resurrected. Do you think you could go back and believe Santa is still real?

  • Alisha Rose Glenn

    This is excellent. 🙂

  • Jovan Martinovic

    I keep looking but honestly, i see nothing that could be classified as offensive…