‘Eagles of Death Metal’ Was Playing ‘Kiss the Devil’ at Moment Terrorists Stormed Theater

Photo Credit: Vantage News
Photo Credit: Vantage News

PARIS — The California-based band Eagles of Death Metal was playing their song “Kiss the Devil” at the moment that three terrorists stormed a Paris theater Friday and began opening fire, reports state.

“Who’ll love the devil? Who’ll sing his song?” the song’s lyrics ask. “Who will kiss the devil on his tongue?”

Photos of the event capture concert-goers making the “devil horns” sign minutes before the attack began. According to online explanations of the history of the gesture, “it was adopted by metal fans the world over as a vague sign of the occult, Satanism or just metal-ness, and has since simply become a symbol of all that rocks.”

Video footage also shows the band ducking and running as the loud pop of gunfire rang out in the middle of the song.

As previously reported, among several locations that were targeted on Friday night was Le Bataclan arts center, where Eagles of Death Metal was playing before a crowd of approximately 1000 people. Witnesses state that they heard one of the four attackers yell “Allahu Akbar” and another declare “This is for Syria!” before indiscriminately shooting at members of the audience.

“The atmosphere was so happy and everyone was dancing and smiling,” survivor Isobel Bowdery wrote on social media. “And then when the men came through the front entrance and began the shooting, we naively believed it was all part of the show.”

“It wasn’t just a terrorist attack, it was a massacre. Dozens of people were shot right in front of me. … Cries of grown men who held their girlfriend’s dead bodies pierced the small music venue,” she continued. “[A]cts like this are suppose to highlight the depravity of humans and the images of those men circling us like vultures will haunt me for the rest of my life.”

  • Connect with Christian News

“They didn’t stop firing. There was blood everywhere, corpses everywhere. Everyone was trying to flee,” radio host Pierre Janaszak likewise told the UK’s Daily Mail. “I clearly heard them say, ‘It’s the fault of Hollande. It’s the fault of your president. He should not have intervened in Syria.'”

While the band was able to escape out the backstage door, their merchandise manager, Nick Alexander, was killed. 88 concert-goers lost their lives as well and hundreds of others were injured. Witnesses state that three of the gunmen blew themselves up and the fourth was shot dead by police.

Over 130 people were murdered in the multi-site attacks Friday night—counting the deaths that occurred at hospitals over the weekend—with the majority of the deaths being from Le Bataclan.

Blogger and street preacher Goeffry Grider commented on the matter on Monday, expressing concern about the eternal destiny of those who were singing and dancing to “Kiss the Devil” moments before they lost their lives.

“It is safe to say that there were just about no Christians at the concert that night, that the vast majority of those people were lost, unsaved people,” he wrote. “As those people bled and died on the dance floor of the death metal concert, they went from singing about the Devil to meeting the Devil face to face. Hell is no joke, it is absolutely not a party, and you do not have to end up there.”


A special message from the publisher...

Dear Reader, our hearts are deeply grieved by the ongoing devastation in Iraq, and through this we have been compelled to take a stand at the gates of hell against the enemy who came to kill and destroy. Bibles for Iraq is a project to put Arabic and Kurdish audio Bibles into the hands of Iraqi and Syrian refugees—many of whom are illiterate and who have never heard the gospel.Will you stand with us and make a donation today to this important effort? Please click here to send a Bible to a refugee >>

Print Friendly
  • glutenfreedomfighter

    “The Devil” is a nickname of the lead singer Jesse Hughes, FYI.

    • Josey

      wow, lovely nickname…NOT…he is being used to turn the hearts of young ppl away from the one true Living God. By nicknaming himself that he brings worship to devils.

      • Karl Ford

        And you really believe that. Ok.

      • ppp777

        Demons you mean .

  • Josey

    So sad that those killed by satan just went into eternity and met him face to face. Jesus says in John 10:9,10 vs9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. vs10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
    We need to pray for those that survived, that they might come to the knowledge of the truth who is Jesus and that they wake up and choose this day whom they will serve. God is good, He gives life through Jesus Christ! satan kills.

    • Adam Cantrell

      You are literally one of the biggest fucking idiots alive right now. Religious extremists (such as yourself) are responsible for this mass execution. These people were having a great time, and some fucking wacko nut-jobs used religion to fuel the attacks that Friday night. God’s not real and religion is nothing but a poison. Most of you holy rollers have your head so far up your own asses that you don’t even know what you believe in.

    • jennylynn

      Amen!

      • Cp79784

        Moron

  • Spaghetti Pot

    This is the biggest load of crap. The Eagles of Death Metal are FAR from an actual death metal band. You judgmental dickheads talking about people dying because they were dancing and singing a stupid song about the LEAD SINGER (nicknamed the devil) are now burning in hell? You good “Christians” are about 3 steps away from becoming an ISIS like movement of garbage people. Hopefully the moderator of the site will take this down since it doesn’t fit into the agenda.

  • yael58

    I can well remember when rock music was condemned as the “devil’s music” back in the 70s and even part of the 80s. And this Christian still listens to it and still loves it. AFAIC, and with few exceptions, the vast majority of so-called “Christian contemporary” music pretty much sucks.

    • Josey

      I grew up in the time you are referring to and I listened to that music as an unbeliever but once I came to know the truth as God revealed to me through His mercy and grace of who Jesus is and why He came, that music became repulsive to me and I can’t stand to hear it to this day.

      • Cp79784

        What a wuss

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        That is awesome, Josey!

        There are still a few songs I struggle to get away from in the 60’s and 70’s, partly because their instrumentals sound so good. But, it is fascinating that in many of the songs of that era, God gets replaced by a girl who is then worshipped – a false form of radical feminism was being ushered in during that era, IMO.

        • Josey

          When I first came to Christ, I also had some trouble getting away from some music, mostly sentimental or nostalgic songs that reminded me of times past before coming to Christ and because my hubby was not saved and he blasted the stuff into our home, he still does to this day but not as often for I rebuke the music without his knowing that I am praying against it and it is wonderful because every time I’ve done that in prayer against it, he turns it off, he doesn’t know why or probably doesn’t even consider why he turns it off but I know why and give glory to God for that because that music fills the atmosphere in my home and gives a toe hold to the devil in that it brings up past things that I do not want in my mind and I also anoint my home as God leads me to, what a difference it makes, praise God! Pray for hubby as he believes in God but has not made a commitment to serve Him as Lord and with time drawing to an end, I don’t want him to fall for the deception that is coming upon those who do not follow Christ. God bless you world 🙂

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            God bless you, Josey – what a faithful and Spirit-filled wife you are! You are most correct that the demonic realm will do anything possible to find an inroad into your life – in fact, the more you follow Jesus, the more the demons attack. (They do not waste their time on those who are not effective for Jesus.)

            I will pray for your hubby – please tell him that a former atheist of 42 years says that it is one thing to know that God exists, quite another to make Him the Lord of your life! But, it is the best adventure in the world – it is a manly adventure with many great battles, some won, some lost, but always a glorious battle! Tell him that we need him fighting alongside us, not sitting on the sidelines and expecting to get to Heaven because he is basically a “good” guy. Besides, the battle itself is worth it – even in this life. How much better the rewards later?

  • Greg Ogin

    1. Eagles of Death Metal aren’t a metal band. They’re a blues driven rock band.

    2. THE LEAD SINGER IS AN ORDAINED PRIEST

    3. “The Devil” referred to in the song is the lead singer (get the humor?)

    4. This article is garbage.

    • LotusPrins

      Utterly slanted article to nonsense, thanks for exposing the garbage article.

    • jennylynn

      An ordained priest of Satan. Furthermore any band that sings kiss the devil is glorifying the devil. Any person with the nick name the devil is honoring/worshipping the devil. Bottom line is your allegiance is to one or the other God or Satan, and that is no joke!

      • Greg Ogin

        No he’s a Catholic ordained in the order of St. Francis. Your blind faith shows in your ignorant comments. This black and white ideology that you preach is the foundation of religious militant groups (such as ISIS) everywhere. Don’t believe me? An ISIS leader recently said, “There are only two types of people on the planet. Those who belong to Paradise, and those who are destined for Hellfire.” Tell me how your comment is different from his. Your religion preaches forgiveness. Practice it.

        • jennylynn

          You obviously don’t know the teachings of the RCC which is steeped in occultism. Satanism has man suits and many blind followers. This is not a forgiveness issue, it is a reality issue. You will know them by their fruit. This music is not fruitful but demonic and does not bring glory to Jesus.
          Take it!

          why do you call Me Lord, Lord and do not do the things that I say? Luke 6:46

          • PanchoWilla

            Tell you what, hateful bigoted comments like this don’t bring glory to Jesus, either. In fact, if anyone is going to hell, it’s you jennylynn, for behaving in a manner that doesn’t conform at all to Christ’s teachings. Hate will consume you – see you and yours in Hell.

    • Angel Jabbins

      Not Metal? You could have fooled me. I just went to YouTube and endured about 30 seconds of their music and it sounds like a lot of clanging and banging to me… metal on metal…but what do I know? And how would we know that the devil referred to in this song is the lead singer? And why would he want to refer to himself as the devil? A priest of what?
      Lyrics to the song:

      “Kiss The Devil”

      Who’ll love the devil?…
      Who’ll song his song?…
      Who will love the devil and his song?…
      I’ll love the devil!…
      I’ll sing his song!…
      I will love the devil and his song!…
      Who’ll love the devil?…
      Who’ll kiss his tongue?…
      Who will kiss the devil on his tongue?…
      I’ll love the devil!…
      I’ll kiss his tongue!…
      I will kiss the devil on his tongue!…
      Who’ll love the devil?…
      Who’ll sing his song?…
      I will love the devil and his song!…
      Who’ll love the devil?…
      Who’ll kiss his tongue?…
      I will kiss the devil on his tongue!…
      Who’ll love the devil?…
      Who’ll sing his song?…
      I WILL LOVE THE DEVIL AND SING HIS SONG!…
      And why is the audience pictured making horns with their hands? The real devil is often depicted as having horns, is he not? Joking and singing songs about the devil, even if done in ignorance, is serious business. I am very sorry for all who lost their lives. I hope those who survived will consider just how fragile life really is and search for the truth that can only be found in the God of the bible who is able save them and give them everlasting life

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Indeed, Angel, and that banner photo on their fb page isn’t exactly “pastoral.” 🙂

      • Greg Ogin

        I’ll say this again. He’s speaking about himself in the song. Calling himself a devil. I’m done here. I’ve given up on anyone here thinking in more ways than what they’ve been set in.

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Don’t go, Greg! 🙂

      • blank

        Then you aren’t familiar with actual metal.

    • Angel Jabbins

      I just found it….a priest in the church of Universal Life.

      The Universal Life Church (ULC) is a church that offers anyone ordination as a ULC minister free of charge. Its critics have referred to it derisively as an ordination mill.[2] The organization states that anyone can become a minister without having to go through the pre-ordination process required by other religious faiths.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Whoosh! Sound of atheist propaganda deflating. 🙂

        Nice work, Angel! It is always enjoyable to demolish atheist arguments, no?!? 🙂 2 Corinthians 10:5

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Angel. Down below, he says he is a Catholic ordained in the order of St. Francis. He is just a troll trying to see how long he lasts on a Christian site. Atheists lie, because, ya know, they are sure there is no God Who will call them on it.

        • Tony Jiang

          you got it backwards Christians lie because they know they wont be held accountable for it

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Sucks when your atheist friends got outed for lying about the leader of this “band,” huh?

    • Josey

      That kind of music is garbage!

    • Josey

      Being called of God to preach, teach, prophesy and getting ordained by men are two very different things. Anyone can go online and get ordained as whatever, doesn’t make them a servant of God or Christ. Look at how many pharisees and sadducees during Christ’s time had ordained themselves as religious leaders of that day but Christ did not call one of them, Christ called fishermen, ordinary men by the world’s standards. To God be all the glory! Love Him so for the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. 1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

  • Greg Ogin

    Please do your research before writing. Half of your article can be contradicted with a simple google search.

  • Toro Keng

    Not surprised.

  • Christine Infanger

    Heather Clark, you’re a shameful excuse for a writer, and those of you commenting on how those listening to this music shortly went on to meet the devil are deplorable, vile people who couldn’t be less Christian if you tried. How dare you pass judgment on anyone, as you sit safely in your homes quoting B.S. Bible verses, as if they mean anything to you.
    Learn a bit about the band before you deem them Satan worshippers you insipid scaremongering trolls.
    People were out for an evening of fun, something to which everyone is entitled, and they were massacred. Those who survivived had to witness something unimaginable. It’s awful and horrific, but what’s equally disturbing is this group of anti-Christians ganging up on the victims and passing judgment on them. If there is a devil and a Hell you will be the ones who see it, not the music fans who died in Paris.

    • jennylynn

      If people loved JESUS, they wouldn’t be at that concert, and if they haven’t given their life to God then their not saved and they will pay for their own sins in hell. This is a sad painful truth. It doesn’t feel good to hear, but either is an eternity in hell which Is a stark reality for many people.
      There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. (JESUS ) acts 4:12

      • Cosmic Mastermind

        Uh-huh… so what if the massacre had happened at a NewsBoys concert?

        • jennylynn

          I guess you missed the point of the article about unsaved kids and their satanic symbols they were displaying. This could of happened anywhere, but how sad that they were glorifying the devil when they died.

          • gizmo23

            I see the same symbol at Texas football games I guess Texas glorifies the devil

          • Christian Elder

            Representing the Texas Longhorns of course.

          • gizmo23

            Not according to some here

          • Josey

            lol

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Nice!

          • jennylynn

            We’ll guess what, there are people in Texas who glorify the devil and worship him. Your either worshing God or Satan. Satan disguises himself in many suits, and false religions to recieve worship. Texas isn’t immune.

          • gizmo23

            I bet you would make a lot of Texas football fans mad with this idea and many of them are Christians

          • jennylynn

            Christian is a broad term.

            The tree is known by its fruit!
            Luke 6:44

        • Christian Elder

          Typical strawman argument.

      • gizmo23

        Batman was showing at the Aurora CO theatre when those people were murdered. I guess God hates Batman and the people who were there too.

        • Christian Elder

          The Batman movie was The Dark Knight Rises. Just another interesting coincidence? Sadly, non-believers have no spiritual discernment.

          • gizmo23

            So are you saying no one in that theatre was a Christian?

          • Christian Elder

            No, are you saying they were all killed? Anyway, my response was regarding lack of discernment in spiritual matters, which of course may include movie choices and other forms of entertainment.

        • jennylynn

          Who said anything about God hating. For God so loves the world that He gave His Only begotten Son that whosoever believers in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 God gives everyone a free gift of salvation for those who accept it and turn from sin. The problem is not God, but man who doesn’t take Him seriously. He is just and must punish all sinners, it’s His character( holy, righteous, true) man chooses where he spends eternity out of His free will. God wills that all would be saved, but that’s is your choice to make.

          • Josey

            Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
            1Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

            God is Holy and Righteous and He can not allow sin into Heaven! Those who believe that there are many ways to Heaven are so deceived into believing the lie satan has put forth. Those that blaspheme God by saying, “what kind of good God would sentence people to an eternity of hell and torment?” do not understand the Holiness of God and that sin can never be allowed into Heaven, the only way to rid oneself of sin is to accept God’s way of salvation through the shed blood of Christ by turning to Him in repentance and by receiving Christ’s holiness, those that understand and accept this truth are covered in Christ’s blood and holiness and w/out holiness no man shall see God. When God looks upon the one who accepts His salvation plan through Christ Jesus, God sees Jesus holiness upon that one.

          • jennylynn

            We’ll said, josey! Amen!!

      • Josey

        AMEN jennylynn…God bless you abundantly with speaking His truths.

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      “If there is a devil and a Hell you will be the ones who see it”

      Right there, you refuted yourself, Christine. You called out Christians for “passing judgment on them [concert goers],” then you immediately turned around and passed judgment on Christians. This is what we call being a hypocrite or Pharisee.

      Furthermore, by judging Christians for what you believe is wrong behavior, you proved that you believe in a form of objective moral justice. Your belief in that will help me to establish the existence of Hell itself – all with not a single Bible verse. (Although plenty are available, as no one talked more about Hell in the Bible than Jesus of Nazareth.)

      Here is a secular ontological argument for the existence of Hell:

      1. Every natural innate human desire has a corresponding satisfying object in reality. (e.g., thirst has the object of water, hunger has the object of food, love has the object of persons and dogs, knowledge has the object of reality perceived through our five senses plus the enormous complexity-resolving hardware and software of our brain, etc) (observation and human experience)

      2. Humans possess a natural innate desire for objective moral justice to be satisfied. (the existence of laws, police forces, and prison; also, human psychology; in fact, this desire is so strong that even many atheists will utter the phrase “Go to Hell”)

      3. Therefore, objective moral justice exists. (1,2 Modus Ponens)

      4. If objective moral justice exists, then it exists for everyone – otherwise, it would not be objective, moral, or justice. (definition of objective moral justice)

      5. Therefore, objective moral justice exists for everyone. (4,3 Modus Ponens)

      6. If objective moral justice exists for everyone, then it must exist in this life or a potential afterlife for everyone. (complete disjunction on potential human existence)

      7. Therefore, objective moral justice must exist in this life or an afterlife for everyone. (6,5 Modus Ponens)

      8. For some persons, objective moral justice is not satisfied in this lifetime. (e.g., Hitler, Stalin, Mao, unrepentant abortion “doctors,” abortuary deathscorts, etc) (observation regarding heinous atrocities whose perpetrators never received OMJ in this life)

      9. Therefore, for some persons, objective moral justice is satisfied in an afterlife. (7,8 simple cancellation)

      10. Therefore, objective moral justice exists in an afterlife, i.e., Hell exists. (existential generalization)

      (Special thanks to the following atheist-agnostics, and others unnamed, who provided constructive criticisms helping me to identify hidden steps: Elie, markb, Unrepentant Atheist, and Disqusdmnj. Any remaining errors are mine and mine alone.)

      Note that on Christian theism, since we all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory, and we are all destined for Hell, the only way to achieve objective moral justice in this lifetime is to either be morally perfect (not possible) or to have our sins paid for at the Cross by Jesus, which can only be achieved by placing our full faith (trust) in Him.

      God bless you, Christine!

      • Angel Jabbins

        Excellent explanation!

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Thanks, Angel! It has been awhile since I broke out that secular argument for Hell’s existence.

          Was my last full paragraph OK as a depiction of the Gospel? I was trying to keep it into the context of the conversation and was having trouble with the wording a bit.

          • Angel Jabbins

            It was perfect! I

      • Greg Ogin

        The plain and simple fact is that the concert goers should not be judged based on their choice in music. The Eagles of Death Metal aren’t a death metal band and the lead singer is a devout Christian. No long-winded, loaded comment can change that. The Christian faith preaches forgiveness. So get to forgiving and stop the judgment.

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          “The plain and simple fact is that the concert goers should not be judged based on their choice in music.”

          Aren’t you making a judgment here?

          “No long-winded, loaded comment can change that.”

          Is that your way of saying you don’t understand my comment?

          “the lead singer is a devout Christian”

          No “devout christian” sings those kinds of lyrics.

          “So get to forgiving and stop the judgment.”

          Isn’t that another judgement you are making?

          • justin lane

            You confuse me by your responses was this article written as a scare tactic to convert unbelievers to your case? Or I’d the spirit of God you claim to have in you be compelling you to witness? Your clearly care more about winning the argument with those you deemed hellbound then truthfully witnessing to a distress group of people who are upset you are defaming the victims of a terrorist attacks character. Did it ever cross your mind maybe some of the people like the style of music but never read the lyrics? How many concert goers were just going with a friend to have a good time with no knowledge of the band do you know? I thought Jesus said he without sin cast the first stone and you ,in another reply, said we have all sin and come short of the glory of God, so then how are you to judge them? Your a complete hypocrite. Jesus also said “Do unto those as you want them to do to you”, & “To turn the over cheek and if he hits your again to provide the other cheek”. Christianity should not be about condemning the dead you should show sympathy for the fallen and through Christ love win over the lost. You and all these angry Christians who forgot Jesus sat with the sinners, whores, and thiefs was because as he said you can’t save the saved. But he also condemned the parishes for not breaking traditions and believing they were out fault. Maybe if you actually sounded sincerely and tried to prove your statements without clearly trying to sound condescending in your(s) response(s) unsaved visitors of your site would be more receptive. And maybe instead of using a tragedy as bait to condemn these innocent victims to hell you could have used Jesus teaching about the end times being like a birth pains increasing towards the day of my return. He said the earth would increasingly spiral out of control until his return. You are exactly why I left the church and organze religion so much hate. Jesus said hate sin not the sinner you need Jesus dude

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            My reply that you are replying to was to show the self-refuting nature (and blatant hypocrisy) of those who condemn the judging of others by themselves judging others. You continue the to make my argument for me nicely. Thank you!

          • Josey

            right on World…

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Thanks, Josey! You are doing an excellent job these days over here too – thanks for your hard work in tolerating those in darkness and trying to love them to Jesus!

          • justin lane

            Actually, Thank you for dimenstrating that your more concerned about winning an argument then saving souls for christ. Your a hypocrite and a false prophet posing as a christian. Jesus warned it upset him more for a person two have one foot in the church and the other outside than someone completely rejecting him. My advise is to strengthen your relationship with God through the word or your arrogance will lead where preach the victims went. The real message to anyone who is reading this article should be were in troubling times. Forget whether the victims were Christian or not a lot of people lost their lives at the hands of the wicked. Jesus said in the End Times the peace would be increasingly taken from Earth we will see more heinous atrocities before the rapture. If you want peace in these troubling times instead of fear follow these instructions Acts 2:38 “And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Weird how that sounds so “judgmental” what you are writing here. 🙂 Hypocrisy, much?

          • Josey

            Did it ever cross your mind maybe some of the people like the style of music but never read the lyrics? How many concert goers were just going with a friend to have a good time with no knowledge of the band do you know?

            That is sad that people aren’t informed as to what they listen to then based on your question above. I know what lyrics I want to listen to for I want to guard my heart and mind in Christ Jesus. Based on your assumption then those who do not know what the lyrics or songs are about are being very careless and don’t care, they just follow the crowd. Matthew 7:13-14 vs13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: vs14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. I encourage my grand daughter to not be a follower of the crowd, to stand out as God has made her, usually the crowd is going the wrong way, don’t follow the crowd, follow Christ!

          • justin lane

            I agree for the most part and your statement was backed by scripture thank you. You mentioned how you encourage your granddaughter to not be a follower of the crowd and to follow Christ I commend you thats awesome your giving guidance. I’m sure a lot of teenagers who died at that concert wold have benefited from someone spiritual strong backing them. I don’t think it so much they “don’t care” as stated earlier more so they didn’t know or understand. The world is quickly turning away from is possible a lot of people at the show didn’t have the spiritual guidance from family or are even associated with any who was a strong Christian we don’t know. With that said I do agree

          • blank

            Apparently a devout Christian does sing those lyrics. It is a fact that he has sung those lyrics & he is a conservative, ordained minister. Too bad if that doesn’t fit your agenda.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Nice try, but Angel outed him below. Do try to keep up please.

          • Karl Ford

            Yeah, Angel only outed themselves with their limited comprehension of the issues, modern culture and the context of the events.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Angel outed him below. Do try to keep up, please.

        • afchief

          Revelation 21:8 (NASB) But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

        • Josey

          It is too late for those who died, who are we to forgive, the dead? We do not know when any of us will take our last breath on this earth, only God knows that and we should trust in God and in His word (Bible) for it’s God’s love letter to us who believe and obey Him. We have today to choose, tomorrow isn’t promised. These concert goers were given the choice the same as you and me and they have gone into eternity based on that choice they made here, whatever that was, God knows.
          Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

      • John N

        Nice argumenting again, World. Please don’t let anything interfere with it, like reality. So show us the actual evidence for ‘objective moral justice to exist for everyone’, ‘afterlife’, ‘hell’ and ‘god’ to begin with. Until you’ve done that, your ontological arguments are just words.

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          John, if you do not understand the argument, just say so. But, by not addressing the premises and underlying logic, and then irrationally declaring victory, you are not doing yourself any favor.

          • John N

            Why? If the outcome of your argument is not in line with reality, then it is up to you to check your premisses and conclusion. Clearly somewhere you must have gone wrong.

            So do you have the evidence?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            The evidence is in the ontological argument, John. You seem to think that logic and philosophy are not valid lines of evidence. But, such thinking is demonstrably false, since science and math cannot even get off of the ground without philosophy and logic.

            Philosophical foundations for science include, but are not limited to the following: there exists an external world; the external world operates in an orderly fashion; the external world is knowable; truth exists; the laws of logic exist; our cognitive and sensory tools are reliable enough to discover truth and form rational beliefs; language
            can be adequately used to describe the external world; some form of ethical values exist in which to perform science in a valid way; nature has some uniformity to it; induction and numbers exist; etc.

            So, if you are going to throw away logic and philosophy as invalid forms of evidence, then that means you are also throwing away science and mathematics. Are you doing so today, John?

            I gave you a logical argument, with premises, conclusions, and even the logical rules that satisfy them. Your job, if you are intellectually honest, is to tear down my argument and then construct your own proof that Hell does not exist. Then, everyone here on this site can see who has the better logic and argument.

            What you cannot do is to just sit back and whine that you do not like the conclusion. At least not of you are the logical rational sort that atheists like to believe themselves to be.

          • John N

            ‘So, if you are going to throw away logic and philosophy as invalid forms of evidence, then that means you are also throwing away science and mathematics. Are you doing so today, John?’

            Well, logic tells me that if your argument has an outcome that denies reality, the argument might look nice but is clearly invalid. Did you really check your premisses?

            If you did and they are OK, then logically you should be able to find dome evidence in reality, isn’t it? Then where do we find ‘objective morality’? Where is your ‘hell’? Any evidence yet for your ‘afterlife’?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            There you go again, John – denying that evidence includes logic and philosophical evidence, even after I gave you the philosophical foundations for science. So that is a “yes” to you throwing away science today – do I have you correct?

            Still waiting for you to address my proof AND provide your own that Hell does not exist.

          • John N

            There you go again World, confusing arguments with evidence.

            Still no evidence of your objective morality, hell, afterlife or god, only your beliefs. Well, that was to be expected.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Philosophy and logic ARE arguments, for those of us who do science and math anyway. 🙂

            So, let’s review:

            I have laid out my proof in propositional logic form for the existence of Hell. You have replied that you don’t accept it, while not addressing ANY of the premises or logical justifications, and, furthermore, in addition to not tearing down my case for Hell’s existence, you have provided none of your own to show that Hell does not exist.

            Then, I gave you 10 philosophical-logical axioms necessary to do rational science. Your response is that philosophy and logic do not count as evidence, thus discarding science, logic, and rational thought from your toolbox.

            Yet, you guys are the logical, rational, science-y ones?!?

            I had forgotten how fun it was to be an atheist, where I did not have to bring to the table any meat but could just sit back and criticize the meal that others had prepared for me. 🙂

      • acontraryview

        “or a potential afterlife”

        The word “potential” means that it may or may not exist. Therefore, the rest of the logic falls apart as a proof statement.

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          “The word “potential” means that it may or may not exist.”

          100% true!

          “Therefore, the rest of the logic falls apart as a proof statement.”

          100% false! 🙂 The term “potential” in step 6 keeps the possibility open that there IS a Hell. The logic following step 6 establishes that possibility as an actuality.

      • Tony Jiang

        “or to have our sins paid for at the Cross by Jesus,”

        you have really gone insane,Jesus cant pay for your sins if you believe in “justice”

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          You missed the Gospel, Dude. That IS the justice, without which we all end up in Hell. He took the justice I deserved on Himself.

      • Becky

        Well done, WGC…a standing ovation from me to you : )

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Right back atya, Becky! Keep up the great fight!

    • Okeke

      How I wish you are correct! Hell is real and anyone who did not accept the Lord Jesus Christ as his savior has no other choice

    • afchief

      John 3:3 (NASB) Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

      If they did not know Jesus Christ as their Savior, then yes, they are in hell!

    • Christian Elder

      Too bad someone with a Christian name refers to “B.S. Bible verses”. Obviously doesn’t respect the Word, and not well versed in it.

      • Christine Infanger

        They’re B.S. Bible verses when they’re distorted and used to spew hatred and vilify innocent people.

        • Christian Elder

          No such thing as “B.S. Bible verses”, but there is such a thing as spirit of rebellion, lack of discernment, and lack of understanding. I would say if there’s a Bible verse you don’t like, you more than likely need to repent of it.

    • Coach

      God is the One who will judge those who were killed, He will judge according to His Word. I can’t answer for everyone’s comments, but I will say Hell is a reality that all who don’t repent and believe the gospel will face. Revelation 21:6 And He said to me, “It is done![c] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,[d] and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[e] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
      Christine, please take this seriously, the gospel of Matthew is a good place to start.

  • Becky

    God’s people are about doing God’s work and not about such things as this. We serve a jealous God and partaking in things that are representative of the enemy, the devil, is an affront to God. Regardless of the band members or audience, offering such futile reverence to the devil, even in jest, is playing with fire. The devil is real and anything that represents him is enmity against God. I’m saddened for those that were killed and their heartbroken families, it’s tragic. We don’t have time to waste and we must surrender to God while there’s still life within us. Life isn’t a game.

  • Jack Mayfield

    The ignorant redneck writer of this article suggesting these poor souls deserved this because of the music should attend a show. Jesus would would have loved this concert! I guarantee he would be horrified by your twisted, parochial, paganism you practice with your fundamendentalist “Christian” , Bible thumping, inbred garbage. I’m a true Christian and I love this band.

    • Angel Jabbins

      Nobody said these young people ‘deserved’ to be killed. But the fact that they were honoring Satan, even in ignorance thinking is he just imaginary, is a statement about the spiritual condition…not only in France, but in much our world today. Sadly, few take God and His Word seriously anymore and the consequences for people dying without Christ as their Savior are very sad to say the least.
      Jesus would not have loved this concert! You are supposed to be a Christian and yet you think Jesus, who came into the world to defeat Satan and his evil works, would be a part of this concert singing, ‘I love the devil and I will sing his song’? You have no idea of what it means to be a Christian if you think that. And if you reject the bible you are rejecting Christ because it is the bible that teaches us about Him and why He came….to save us and make us right with God as we repent of our sins and trust in Him.

      • John N

        >’But the fact that they were honoring Satan, even in ignorance thinking is he just imaginary, is a statement about the spiritual condition…not only in France, but in much our world today. Sadly, few take God and His Word seriously anymore and the consequences for people dying without Christ as their Savior are very sad to say the least.’

        So you do think that these young people, who had done nothing wrong as far as I can see, did not deserve to die, but they sure deserve to be tortured until eternity by your all loving god? Because of their ‘spiritual condition’? Is that what you think?

        • Gordon Lam

          God doesn’t WILL them to go to hell, He wants ALL who choose
          to believe in His gospel to be SAVED(John 3:16). But He loves
          our Freedom more than anything and will not FORCE us to
          choose Christ’s ransom of our souls on the Cross. 1Tim. 2:3-6

          • John N

            … and so he will torture us for eternity if we do use that free will in a way he does not like.

            Some free will you got there. How does it differ from us being puppets on a string?

          • Web Watcher

            It is impossible to understand all that comes from an eternal and creator God. He wants us to love Him and follow him. Read about it yourself in the Bible. Start with the New Testament gospels… instead of questioning and arguing with others in these posts. Your questions will be answered if you are one who is diligently seeking the truth.

          • John N

            Right. That’s why I asked what you think. So I guess it is a yes?

          • Angel Jabbins

            That is so true, Web! So many argue against God and completely misunderstand what Christianity teaches. If they would only open the bible and read it. A good starting place is the Gospel of John.

          • John N

            >’It is impossible to understand all that comes from an eternal and creator God. ‘
            Correct. That’s why I understandind it as coming from people who lived long time ago and tried to explain the bad things that happend to them in life, and hoped to receive a reward in some afterlife.

          • Angel Jabbins

            We are not puppets. Did you get up today and chose what you were going to do, where you were going to go, how you would live this day? When we lie, we chose to do it. When we think nasty thoughts that nobody else can hear in our heads, those thoughts are heard by a Holy God. He allows you complete freedom to live and do as you please. (And in the midst of your rebellion, He blesses you everyday with air to breathe, food, family, many good things.) You can live for Him or you can turn against Him and thumb your nose in His face.

            But one day you will have to give an account to Him because He is your Maker and He gave us the Bible to show us how to live and He gave us a Savior, Jesus Christ, to deliver us from our sin and the punishment we deserve. You are free to chose or reject Him….so you are not a puppet on a string. Not hardly. If you go to hell, you are completely responsible for you that.

          • John N

            >’If you go to hell, you are completely responsible for you that.’

            So we have received free will to do make the choices we want to make, but if we make the wrong choice (intentionally or unintentionally), we will be punished for it. Very painfully, and very forever.

            If the outcome of giving humans ‘free will’ is that only one choice is allowed and all other are punished, then you’re not any different from being puppets on a string. Ask Pavlov. Your ‘Free will’ seems to be designed by very cruel minds.

            >’… he gave us a Savior, Jesus Christ, to deliver us from our sin and the punishment we deserve’
            Why do you think I deserve punishment? Why does a devout Hindu (by example), deserves punishment? What with all the civilizations that never even heard of him? What with all the people living before your deity was worshipped? All in hell, being tortured for all eternity, not having a clue of what exactly happened to them?

          • Angel Jabbins

            “Why do you think we deserve punishment?”

            A little bit busy here preparing for Thanksgiving…but you answer can be found here:

            The Good Person Test. (See if you can pass it. I can’t and that is why I am so glad Jesus came to die for my sins and I know today that I am forgiven and bound for an eternity with Him. I have so much to be thankful for every day of my life because of what Christ did for me…a sinner.)

            http://www.wayofthemaster. com/goodperson. shtml (just loose the spaces)

          • John N

            So you let a book, written by unknown authors thousand of years ago, decide on the question if people that attend a rock concert will go to hell to be punished forever.

            I guess you are ok by that, Angel? You do think they deserved that? You do think I deserve that?

          • Angel Jabbins

            John, the Bible was not written by ‘unknown authors’. It was written by Jesus own disciples, Peter, Paul, John, Matthew and others… and written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. People condemn it yet never take the time to read it cover to cover. They read bits and pieces out of context and don’t have any clear understanding of what it teaches as a whole and who God really is. He is Truth and He has revealed Himself in His Son, Jesus Christ.

            The scriptures which do go back 1,000’s of years, telling us of the fall of mankind into sin, the promise of God to send a deliverer to save us…right up to the Book of Revelation that tells of Jesus’s second coming to judge the world. It is all there and it makes perfect sense. There is no other book like it in the world. But…people hate hearing they are sinners….so just try to trash it or ignore it altogether.

            Yes, I am ok with anyone who has rejected Christ and His offer of forgiveness going to hell. That is where I deserve to go!! But because of God’s kindness to me, I have assurance of a heavenly home when I die.

            We will all die sometime. Death came into the world because of sin and no one can escape it. It will happen to all of us… could be at a rock concert, in a car accident, a heart attack…no matter how or where….it WILL happen. Question is….where will you wake up the moment your life leaves your body? If I am wrong and the bible is false, what have a lost by believing in it? Nothing at all. But, if you are wrong about the bible and you die in your sins, rejecting God’s gracious gift of salvation, you will go to hell forever. You will lose everything and God is just in judging you. He after all is your Creator and He gets to make the rules and to decide what the punishment will be.
            If you punch your neighbor, you might get a fine or spend a few days in jail. But if you do the same thing to the President of the US. believe me, the punishment will be much worse…. probably years in prison. When you sin, you offend the Almighty Holy God who is far greater than any man who ever lived. The punishment of hell is a just punishment for those who reject His kind offer of forgiveness through His Son’s death for them.

            You think you are not a sinner. Did you take the good person test yet? I challenge you to take it. The bible says no one is good…not one person who ever lived was ever good enough for heaven because we all sin…every day. How many lies do you think you have told in your lifetime? 100’s? 1,000’s? We all have. We need a Savior.

            http://www. wayofthemaster. com/goodperson. shtml (loose the spaces)

          • John N

            >’It was written by Jesus own disciples, Peter, Paul, John, Matthew and others …’

            Well, this will be a disappointement for you, but no one knows who the authors of the bible were. But we are certain it were not the disciples. Strange you seem to be ignorant of the origins of your own holy book …

            >’Yes, I am ok with anyone who has rejected Christ and His offer of forgiveness going to hell.’

            So finally an answer to my question. Thus actually Christians believe that young people, who did nothing wrong and were enjoying life, are to be tortured by your deity until eternity because. And still they call it an all loving god ….

          • Angel Jabbins

            Didn’t take the test, did you, John? What are you afraid of? Are you afraid you can’t pass it….that maybe what I said is true…you really ARE a sinner just like me? Remember God sees every thought and intention of your heart. Is your every thought pure and good?
            Those young people were not innocent….they sinned from the day they first understood right from wrong…as we all have. As I have repeated ad nauseum, people don’t go to hell for attending a concert. They go to hell because they have rejected the God who died to save them from their sins.

            We DO know who wrote the New Testament. There is an excellent article explaining the history of the N.T. and how we know who wrote the books here: https: //carm. org/when-were-gospels-written-and-by-whom But, you wouldn’t take the test so you probably won’t read this article either. You are only here to argue and would rather stay in your ignorance because of your intense hatred for the idea of an all holy God who will hold you accountable one day.
            No 50% chance on your deathbed. If there is only one God, the Creator of all things and, if the bible is true in what it says, you are in deep trouble. You will either repent and trust in the Savior or die in your sins and take the punishment those sins deserve.

          • John N

            Angel, sin is a religious concept. Some say it is a way for religious leaders to keep controle over other people – that seems one of the advantages. Anyway, I’m not religious, so to be or not to be a sinner would be meaningless for me. If I did wrong (and I did), I apologize to the victims of my wrongdoing and try to make ik good. I don’t feel the need for apologizing for some fictional wrondoing to some mythical deity. So keep your test for your people who, like you, feel the need to do so.

            >’We DO know who wrote the New Testament. There is an excellent article explaining the history of the N.T….’
            …and then you link to a Christian apologetics website. Which is, as we all know, objective scientific evidence. The second sentence of your article starts with an ‘If …’ and continues with a lot of wishfull thinking-stuff. No evidence of your gospels being writen by the apostles.

            >’If there is only one God, the Creator of all things and, if the bible is true …’
            The important word is ‘if’. Since you have not a speck of evidence for what follows, you’re bound to lose the bet. There is as much evidence for the existence of Baal and Odin as for Jahweh, Allah and God, i.e. none. What can be assessed without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. You’ll die just like me, and that will be the end for us – exept for the genes and memories we leave behind in our children.

          • Angel Jabbins

            Come on, John. You never even read past the first paragraph of that article I sent you to. Of course it started out by saying ‘if’…if it can be shown WHEN the gospels were written…early…before 70 AD…then there is very good reason (historical evidence) to believe that they were written by Jesus’ disciples. Then the article goes on to give the evidence from history that helps us conclude with pretty good accuracy when the gospels were written. Early authorship is very important. “Though there is still some debate on the dates of when the Gospels were written, they were most assuredly completed before the close of the first century and written by eyewitnesses or under the direction of eyewitnesses.”

            “What can be assessed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”

            I could say the same thing right back to you regarding the non-existence of God. Prove it….where is your concrete evidence? It takes faith to believe in God…but not blind faith. It takes more faith to believe He does not exist…that everything just popped into existence out of nothing. Out of nothing came everything?…all the complexities of our world today?…prove it. Billion and billions of years…but nothing is still nothing. Where is your evidence, John?

            John, if you are right and we just die and that is it…no after life, no problem whatsoever for me. I, at least, had the joy and peace faith allowed me during my life. But if you are wrong, you are in deep trouble. Right and wrong…good and evil….moral absolutes DO exist because there is a moral Law Giver. How can you even say it was wrong for the Muslim terrorists to kill those people at the concert? You have no basis to say that… just your subjective opinion and opinions can change from one person to another …so morality can change if it is subjective… when it depends only upon what people think.

            “I’m not religious, so to be or not to be a sinner would be meaningless for me. If I did wrong (and I did), I apologize to the victims of my wrongdoing and try to make is good.”

            So, even though you are not religious, you DO admit that you do, at times, do wrong. Well, how do you know what you did was wrong? You have a conscience that informs you, that was instilled in you by God. You can sometimes make things right with a person you have wronged, but that does not erase the wrong you have done. If Someone is keeping account of the wrongs, they are piling up, day after day, year after year. If God is mythical…no problem for you, John. But if He is not, and you find yourself standing before him one second after your death with your knees knocking (because He is frighteningly Holy), you will have no excuse.

          • John N

            Angel, you linked to a christian website – very biased and in know ‘

            way objective evidence. If this is al you have …

            >’It takes more faith to believe He does not exist…that everything just popped into existence out of nothing. Out of nothing came everything?’

            Well, that is creation you just described, you know – creating everything from nothing. Thanks for refuting your own belief system, saves me the time to do it. Evolution, on the other hand, only works with what ia already available.

            >’ Prove it….where is your concrete evidence?’

            Why? I do not have to prove anything. Non-existence of the supernatural is the default position. In abscence of any evidence of any god whatsoever, I don’t believe they exists. You do the same thing by the way for every other god except your own, I just go one god further.

            But if you want to convince me of the contrary (I believe your deity has given you that task), then do come with the evidence. If it’s good, I’ll change my mind.

            >’… moral absolutes DO exist because there is a moral Law Giver.’

            If they did, we would still keep slaves, discriminate woman and kill the children of our enemies. We don’t, so that’s it.

            >’You have a conscience that informs you, that was instilled in you by God.’
            You realy need your deity for being a moral person? Wow, I wouldn’t want to be around when you lose your faith.

            Angel, in humans, like in other social animals, social behaviours and morality are the result of both evolution and cultural influences. No god needed. Again.

            ‘But if He is not, and you find yourself standing before him one second after your death with your knees knocking (because He is frighteningly Holy), you will have no excuse.’

            Really Engel, switching to threats now? OK: if you die and would appear before Baal, try to explain him why you prefered Jahweh. What will be your excuse?

          • Angel Jabbins

            So what difference is there between your god, evolution, and mine, The Sovereign God of the Universe if they both can create something out of nothing? Evolution is random chance…there is no superior mind involved…no intellect at all. You cannot get something from nothing without an intellect that has the capacity to create. God is the Creator who is all powerful and able to create whatever He wants to…yes, out of nothing. Not from a random hit or miss process… with just a word. That is why he is God. He doesn’t need anything outside of Himself. If He needed something outside of Himself to be able to create things, He wouldn’t be God.
            CARM is not biased, but it would be to you since your mind is closed on the issue of the validity of Christianity. It is a Christian apologetics ministry that might shed some light on your sad misconceptions about Christianity if you were able to set your bias aside for a while and really read the articles. You would learn what the bible really teaches about slavery, treatment of women, the killing (not murder) of wicked people who had been warned to repent repeatedly. Your prejudice has blinded any ability you could possibly have to be objective regarding the topic of religion. And it all goes back to the same issue every time….accountability. We are and will be held accountable to God. God is accountable to no one. Certainly not to you nor to me. The creature doesn’t tell the Creator what to do. But people don’t like that…want no one telling them what to do. So it is comfortable to make a god in our own image and for many that god is evolution or some other made up false deity.
            Death will knock at your door one day. I hope you will be comfortable with your beliefs on your death bed, John.
            Not much point to continuing our discussion, but I have enjoyed talking with you.

          • John N

            What diference there is between your god and evolution?

            Evidence. You have none.

            Evolution is only random chance? No it is not. Please try to understand something of science before denying it.

            You cannot get something out of nothing? Correct. Adding a creator does not change that. So how did he do it?

            CARM is not biased? It is an apologetics website! How more biased can you get?

            Learning what the bible really teaches about slavery, treatment of women, killing…? That’s easy. Read it, like I did. That’s how I found out what the authors of the bible really thought about slavery, discrimination and murdering opponents’ children. And it is an ugly story you got there, from our current point of view.

            It comes down to accountability towards god? No, it really comes down to proving your god (or any god whatsoever) exists in the first place. Until you have shown evidence your god exists, that your god wants what you claim he wants, and that he or she is
            morally good, there is really no point in asking accountability

            And Angel, no threatening with hell is going to change that.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Heaven would be Hell for you, John: for one thing, you would have to listen to my great philosophical arguments. 🙂

            Seriously, the last place you want to be is surrounded by a God you cannot respect and those who desire to worship Him forever. Hell is the place where you will not have to do that. BTW, the levels of punishment will be different in Hell – you will not get the same torment as Adolph Hitler (unless there is something you have not told me :-)). Nevertheless, Hell is not a place anyone will enjoy themselves, not in the least. For that reason, I hope you take it as seriously as we Christians do.

            And, please forgive me for interjecting – the Hell issue is a difficult one for us all, and you bring up good questions. Again, I am sorry if I was rude in entering into your conversation with others – that is your fault for having the free will to ask such intelligent questions. 🙂

          • John N

            Well, you’re right in this one thing – I wouldn’t want to be for eternity in the same place with people who think the large majority of human life – with exception of course of the followers of their favorite denomination of their chosen religion – deserve to be tortured FOREVER because they made the wrong use of the free will your deity supposedly gave them – like going to a rock concert.

            I don’t understand how people claiming superior morality don’t have issues with that.

            No thanks, I accept reality. After I die, I will be dead. My afterlife is the genes and memories I leave behind in my children.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “I wouldn’t want to be for eternity in the same place with people who think”

            And we people who think do not want to spend eternity with you either. So, see, God is GREAT – we both get what we want! 🙂

            “the large majority of human life”

            Strawman.

            “with exception of course of the followers of their favorite denomination”

            Total strawman, but funny nevertheless. 🙂

            “deserve to be tortured FOREVER”

            Strawman. Torment, not torture. Unless, perhaps you are a Hitler type. Anything you forgot to tell us, John?!? 🙂

            “because they made the wrong use of the free will”

            God won’t force you into Heaven against your free will, John. Use it wisely.

            “like going to a rock concert”

            Pathetic strawman. Unless I missed that “rock concert” verse. 🙂

            “I don’t understand how people claiming superior morality don’t have issues with that.”

            Why would you?!? First of all, it is loaded with strawmen. Second off, objective moral values and duties do not even EXIST on atheism. (I will withhold the long list of quotes and proof for that, but you have seen them, and you just don’t like it, not one bit.)

            “After I die, I will be dead.”

            Prove it. I proved otherwise above, and you failed to tear down my argument, nor supply any argument in favor of your position.

            “My afterlife is the genes and memories I leave behind in my children.”

            Which will be completely forgotten in a few generations, and will not make one whit of difference anyway when the universe dies a slow cold dark death, on atheism.

            But, since you put up so many strawmen, I give you the award you so richly deserve:

            https://www .youtube .com/watch?v=nauLgZISozs

          • John N

            Strawmen you say. So where did I misrepresent christian beliefs about hell? Please enlighten us.

            Indeed, objective moral values an duties do not exist. Finally you got something right.

            And proving some is dead when he dies? Easy. Check the nearest graveyard.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “Please enlighten us.”

            I am not here to be your research geni, John. I have given you plenty to think about, and you offer nothing up, except to throw yourself on the floor and cry that Christian morality is no good. Then, you turn around and instantly refute yourself by saying:

            “Indeed, objective moral values an duties do not exist.”

            So, then, what are you arguing about?!? You don’t get to pretend that objective moral values for YOU do not exist and then turn around and apply objective moral values to that “evil” God that you say tortures people for eternity because they went to a rock concert. Do you really not see the logical contradiction there?!?

            “And proving some is dead when he dies? Easy. Check the nearest graveyard.”

            Presuppositional on materialism.

          • John N

            >’I have given you plenty to think about’

            Did you? I saw the usual list of ontological arguments, this time to ‘prove’ hell exists. The biggest problem with your argument is, like I already said, the outcome of it has no connection with reality at all. In real life there is no evidence whatsoever of an objective morality, an afterlife, or your hell, Doesn’t that worry you a bit?

            >’You don’t get to pretend that objective moral values for YOU do not exist and then turn around and apply objective moral values to that “evil” God
            Until proven otherwise, ‘objective’ morality – in the sence of a universal, unchanging code of morality, externally imposed by some deity – does not exist. That does not mean we as a society have not developped ourselves a set of standards and principles for moral behaviour, which could even become valid for all humanity one time.

            And according to current standards of morality, a deity – if he exists – who murders people because bad behaviour, or who punishes them for eternity because they made the wrong choices, should be considered far below the bar.

            >’Presuppositional on materialism.’
            No, default position in absence of any evidence of the contrary. Show it, and you might convince me.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “there is no evidence whatsoever of an objective morality, an afterlife, or your hell”

            Once again, you fail to realize that if you disallow, as evidence, intellectual thought such as philosophy, logic, etc, you have thrown away science, logic, and rationality. I gave you ten philosophical foundations for science, and you continue to disallow them – proving you are anti-science.

            “who murders people because bad behaviour, or who punishes them for eternity because they made the wrong choices, should be considered far below the bar.”

            What bar, John?!? Don’t you see it?!? You just set a bar – an objective bar, against which to measure morality. You just contradicted yourself in two paragraphs – first saying there is no objective morality and then pointing to a “bar” that would set the standard! You really cannot see the logical contradiction here?!? This is precisely why I gave up atheism – it is cognitively dissonant.

            “Show it, and you might convince me.”

            Proved it above, and you continue to NOT engage with a logical argument set forth in premise-conclusion form. New Atheism is so easy – one must not have to think much to be in that religion. 🙂

          • John N

            And once again you fail to understand that any argument – how nicely constructed ever -that leads to conclusions not supported by any actual evidence, and contradicted by all evidence already available , needs some rethinking. Either your premisses are wrong or incomplete, or your conclusion doesn’t follow from your premisses.

            Where did I set an ‘objective’ bar for morality? You seem to agree with my definition, so now you think I’m your deity?

            And since your ontological argument ‘proves’ nothing, please provide some actual evidence for the existence of anything outside the material world. It should’nt be that difficult, should it? After all, doesn’t your afterlife requires us having a soul, separate from our material body? So the evidence should be at hand?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “not supported by any actual evidence”

            So, you are throwing away logic and philosophy – the underpinnings of science – and thus science itself? That’s fine, but please do not pretend you are rational, or “science-y.” You would not last five minutes in an engineering design review. We would grab your badge and escort you off of the property for “impersonating an engineer.” 🙂

            “contradicted by all evidence already available”

            Excellent! Please provide your evidence that Hell does not exist. Then, at least you would be coming to the table with something.

            “Either your premisses are wrong or incomplete, or your conclusion doesn’t follow from your premisses.”

            Feel free to show me where my premises are wrong or my conclusions do not logically follow from my premises. 🙂 Until then, a rational person would be forced to conclude that my argument stands, and that you have brought nothing to the conversation.

            “Where did I set an ‘objective’ bar for morality?”

            When you wrote:

            “should be considered far below the bar”

            THE bar. TYVM. 🙂

            “And since your ontological argument ‘proves’ nothing”

            Still waiting for a refutation. 🙂

            “please provide some actual evidence for the existence of anything outside the material world”

            You don’t believe that love exists?!? Can I mention that to your wife? 🙂

          • John N

            World, if you do have evidence supporting your ontological arguments, show us. Until then, they are just words.

            And you are the philosopher here. If you pose an argument, it is your job to make it solid. I showed it is in need of rethinking. Back to the drawing board with it.

            I repeat, where did I set an ‘objective’ bar for morality. Please read the whole sentence now.

            Show me where love exists outside of an organisms’ brain and body. You do realize ‘love is in the air ‘ is only saying, I hope.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “World, if you do have evidence supporting your ontological arguments”

            The evidence IS the argument, and there is further evidence supporting each premise and conclusion as well. You cannot casually dismiss logic and philosophy, John, without throwing away science. You guys are supposed to be the “science-y” ones who like logic. I am supposed to be the dumb fundamentalist, yet I am the only one who has brought anything to the table.

            “If you pose an argument, it is your job to make it solid.”

            I did. I provided the argument in prepositional logic form with support for each premise and conclusion. The ball is in your court.

            “I showed it is in need of rethinking.”

            You do realize that you have to actually engage with the argument (premises and conclusions) in order to “show it is in need of rethinking,” don’t you?!? 🙂 You continue to not engage – this is why you would be kicked out of any engineering design review. You say you don’t like it, yet you provide nothing to tear it down or construct your own “design,” or argument. Atheism sure is easy – I miss my old days. 🙂

            “where did I set an ‘objective’ bar for morality”

            When you wrote:

            “should be considered far below the bar”

            THE bar. How obvious!

            “Show me where love exists outside of an organisms’ brain and body.”

            So, seriously, are you actually saying that love does not exist?!? Have you ever told anyone “I love you?!?” I am sure you have. In which case, you have refuted yourself into absurdity.

          • ppp777

            Tell me something [ and please think before you answer ] , if hell did not exist would you still think as you do , and please remember hell is not a result of something it is a place that was created .

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Wow – great question!

            I did not come to the Lord from atheism because of the existence of either Heaven or Hell. I came to Him because I needed fixing now, and I desired to submit to the Great Physician.

            On the other hand, after some years of Christian thought, I guess it would be difficult for me to respect a God Who forced an unrepentant Hitler, Mao, Stalin, abortionist, etc, against their creaturely free wills, into His presence (and frankly mine) for all of Eternity. That would be terribly unloving and God is Love.

            There would also seem to be no objective moral justice, and that would make our lives here, and possibly there, meaningless in some sense of the word. It would certainly change our sense of duty to the most vulnerable in a radical, and arguably, wicked, way.

            So, yes, if Hell did not exist, my thinking, and presumably every Christian’s thinking, would be greatly different.

        • Angel Jabbins

          No, they did not deserve to be targeted for death by an evil system called Islam that masquerades as a religion. Islam has no right to judge anyone, no right to condemn them, or to execute them. The only one who does have that right is God, our Maker and Creator. And He has set the standard we are all to live by. We do not get to set the standard for ourselves because we are created beings who are beholden to God, whether you like it or not. You can reject that and say it is not so. But, if God does exist, you will stand before Him one day to give an account.

          None of us is holy or good. All of us have sinned…lied zillions of time, hated others without cause, looked at others with lust committing adultery in our hearts, coveted the things of others, used God’s holy name as a swear word, disobeyed and dishonored our parents, stolen things, no matter the value…No one is good at heart. We are all guilty and do deserve hell. Yet, still….God blesses you every day with life, health, food, sunshine, family, friends, air to breathe even though you deny and hate the idea of Him. So He is good, very good. And if that were not enough, He loved us so much He came in the flesh and took our punishment upon Himself so we can go to heaven and NOT have to go to hell. Those who go to hell really go there by their own choice. There is no need for them to go to hell. God has made a way to heaven, but people reject it and Him because they love their sin, are happy in it, and do not want to forsake it and trust in the Savior.

          • John N

            Islam is a religion which worships the same deity you do, you know.

            And so you confirm that according to your religion, these young people, by chosing to attend to a concert of a group you seem to dislike, deserve to be tortured for eternity?

          • Angel Jabbins

            No, the god of Islam is NOT the same as the God of the Bible….not by a long shot. People say that all the time when it is completely untrue.

            The God of Christianity is a Trinity where the God of Islam is not. The Trinity is the monotheistic teaching that God exists eternally as three distinct persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In Islam, this is blatantly denied. It cannot be the case that God is a Trinity and also not a Trinity. Therefore, since they contradict each other, they cannot be the same.

            Furthermore, in Christianity the doctrine of the Trinity allows for the incarnation (God becoming Man) of the Word (Jesus). John 1:1, 14 says that the Word which was God was with God and became flesh and dwelt among us and was crucified (Matt. 26:2, 27:38). This is denied in Islam, which says that Jesus is only a prophet and was not crucified. Jesus, because He is God, has the power to save us from our sins. Islam says Jesus was just a prophet. They revere Mohammad as being greater than Jesus. Mohammad was just man. Jesus is both God and Man and He rose from the dead which proved He is God.

            Also, Allah expects complete obedience and when you fail, he offers no clear way to be forgiven. You must observe all kinds of rituals, pray 7 times a days, fast, abstain from certain foods…etc. Even when you do all of that, He may forgive you or He may not. You can never be sure that you will go to heaven when you die. Ask any Muslim…they will tell you they don’t know if they will go to heaven or hell. Christians know beyond a doubt because Christ (who is God Himself) paid for our sins on the cross and arose from the grave to ensure our complete forgiveness.

            You are putting words into my mouth again when you accuse me of saying those young people deserved to go to hell simply because they attended a concert. That is ridiculous! They, we and everyone who has ever lived on this earth deserves to go to hell because all are sinners at heart who do not love God and do not obey Him. None of us keeps God’s commandments. Even when we try, we fail because we do not have love for God within us. But God, being merciful and kind, has provided a way for us to have our sins forgiven. He took our punishment on Himself so that no one has to go to hell. Through Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, He paid our sin debt Himself. Now we can be made holy and righteous in God’s sight and gain eternal life in heaven with Him if we come to Christ sincerely in repentance. Even after we repent, we still sin sometimes, But the Third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit comes to live within us so that we no longer love to sin as we did before. God helps us to grow in holiness and to mature in our faith.

            People go to hell because they chose sin over God.

            It might help you understand better if you read this short article by Tim Challies: (Truly it is God’s mercy and grace that should amaze us much more than His wrath…as this article explains.)

            “God’s Not Really That Holy, I’m Not Really That Bad”
            http: //www.challies. com/articles/gods-not-really-that-holy-im-not-really-that-bad (loose the spaces)

          • John N

            >’The God of Christianity is a Trinity where the God of Islam is not. The Trinity is the monotheistic teaching …’

            Judaism, Islam and Christianity all claim a direct lineage from Abraham. Abraham worshipped only one god. Therefore, Jahweh, Allah and God is one and the same.

            None of the later discussions about prophets vs. sons of god and later added technical details about the Trinity (that no Christian really can explain), is going to change that.

            But to answer muy question, do you think that these young people, by chosing to attend to a concert of a group you seem to dislike, deserve to be tortured for eternity?

          • davenutzell

            Actually, Muslims do worship the God of Abraham. Arabs believe that they are descended from Ishmael, Abraham’s first son by Hagar. That is why they are considered to be, along with Christianity and Judaism to be one of the Abrahamic religions, all also known as People Of The Book.

            Furthermore, in Islam there is only one God, so Jesus cannot be God, however, he is probably the most significant figure in the Q’uran after Allah and Mohammed. In it, he is born of the Virgin Mary, brought the Gospel to the Jews and was crucified. He had the ability to perform miracles such as raising the dead. However, while Muslims do not believe that he died on the cross, he was taken up into Heaven by God. (Allah is simply the Arabic word for God). His most common title in the Q’uran is al-Masīh, or the Messiah. He will, it is believed, return to Earth during the End Of Days to restore justice and defeat al-Masih ad-Dajjal, the “false messiah” or Antichrist.

            So, while in Islam there can be no Trinity, the Q’uran is pretty clear that the God of Islam, or Allah, is definitely the same God worshipped by Jews and Christians. Would you maintain that Jews and Christians worship different gods because the Jews don’t believe in the Trinity? I’m doubting it. Did Roman Christians worship a different Deity because they called him Deus instead of God? It’s just a matter of language.

            And yes, I understand exactly what I’m talking about. I was a youth minister, former seminarian and lifelong student of Christian theology. I’ve also read a number of books on what Muslims actually believe. Have you? So, then, you’re basically speaking from a position of ignorance about what Islam teaches.

            Don’t get me wrong, faith is a wonderful thing, as long as it is used for love, not hate. I’m sure you’ve heard them many times, but why don’t you go back and read Matthew ch. 4-7 carefully, until you really understand what Jesus is saying. He meant it, you know? Every word.

          • Angel Jabbins

            They can claim their god is the God of Abraham, but he is not. Ishmael was rejected by God. He actually rebelled against God and did not serve Him, but served false gods. The Jews descended from Isaac, the son of the promise and it was from the Jews that the Messiah, God in the flesh, was to come into the world. Jesus is God, not just a prophet and the message of Christianity is totally opposite of Islam. Islam is based on works of righteousness one must do to be saved. Yet Allah can decide, even after all your hard work, that He wants to reject you and send you to hell. No Muslim has any assurance of heaven. Christians are saved by Christ’s work on the cross plus zero. Good works do nothing to save us. We do good works as Christians because we now love God. But they do nothing to get us to heaven. Jesus Christ, God, the Second Person of the Trinity, did it all for us and we KNOW we are accepted and heaven bound. Big, big difference ….you are so wrong.

          • Angel Jabbins

            BTW, though God did promise Hagar, Ishmael’s mother, that He would eventually make him into a great nation, it was also God who told Abraham to cast Ishmael and his mother out of the camp.

            “Cast out this this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.” Gen 21:10

            Ishmael was a teen at this point and he had been mocking Sarah who had recently given birth to Isaac. How do you think he felt towards his father and his step mother? He was an angry young man. He was mocking Sarah so he had little love for her. And, after his father threw he and his mother out, he must have felt great resentment for Abraham as well. So, do you think Ishmael would adopt the God of Abraham to be his God and serve Him. God promised Hagar He would provide for her and one day make him into a great nation. But that does not mean Ishmael grew up to serve the God of Abraham. The bible says that Hagar took him a wife out of Egypt, a country known for the worship many false gods at that time. Ishmael may have been Abraham’s son illegitimate son via his wife’s handmaiden, but he was not the son of the promise through whom the Covenant, The Law and the Messiah would come. That was Isaac who was born of Sarah just as God predicted.
            The god of Islam is not the same God of the Jews and the Christians. He is a false god and he is demonic. It should be very evident by the fruit of that religion….violence and a scourge on mankind since its inception. Nothing good had come from it and nothing good ever will.

          • Runt Dastardly

            Angel. What a misnomer. We are all one. There is only one god, and it is consciousness. How dare you judge, or judge under the auspicies of any religion. Instead of blaming others on social media, why not reach out to your fellow man? The one that is of the “fallible” flesh. Feed him. Comfort him. Protect him from the madness of fundamentalism. We place too much stock in intangibles, when flesh and bone is right before us. But I guess it’s easier for you to judge abstractly. Or, just keep doing nothing but rubbing salt in the wound, you monster.

          • James Foard

            The monsters are those who slaughter people in the name of Allah. Angel has shared with you from his heart a message of love, of forgiveness, of redemption and reconciliation from an Almighty, loving and merciful God. You can choose to accept God’s love gift or reject it, but God has given you the choice and the chance. Don’t blame God if you wind up in hell someday, He has given you salvation if you accept it. You will be saved or condemned by your own choice.

          • Angel Jabbins

            Excellent, James and thank you so much for your comment.

          • Runt Dastardly

            Again; I need to welcome a god into my heart because he will do terrible things to me if I don’t welcome him into my heart? What kind of insecure, vengeful deity are you promoting here? Seems to me like your god is a victim of your bad press. And, I would thank you and Angel to refrain from sharing your messages “from your hearts”, bitter and black as they seem to this starry-eyed idealist who believes in the inherent goodness of mankind, rather than the violent retribution you all seem so strangely fond of.

          • Runt Dastardly

            So, I’m assuming my comment was removed on the basis of “blasphemy”, because I dared consider the possibility that people are inherently good by their own moral compass, rather than just behaving “piously” out of fear of the wrathful judgement of some imaginary sky-daddy. M’kay. I guess I’m the schmuck who thinks we could all live in progressive, humane harmony together, if only we’d free ourselves from the idiocy of some long-dead human’s strictures of ideological dogma. Anyway, while you pious types were busy judging people on the internet, I served Thanksgiving dinner for my family, then went down to the local soup kitchen to serve 2nd shift dinner for those who actually have no family. But, hey, I guess I’m going to hell anyway, because I’m an EODM fan. Okay, that’s cool. So, basically what you’re saying is that I should hurry up and submit to your god on the basis of the terrible things he’ll do to me if I don’t submit to him? Sounds legit. But, I’m kinda’ busy right now with the needs of my fellow man, which are urgent, and are actually RIGHT HERE IN FRONT OF ME, where I can see them with my own eyes. But, I’m sure I’ll get around to getting “saved” by invisible, unverfied forces when I finally run out of ACTUAL human people who are ACTUALLY suffering, and need my help. Surely that’s a short line, right?

          • Kimberle Taitano

            Angel go away your an embarrassment to True Christians

          • James Foard

            No, Angel is a true Christian, and you need to repent.

          • Angel Jabbins

            What is a true Christian to you, Kimberle, and upon what do you base your beliefs? A Christian is what the bible says one is, right? What does it say?

            Have you read the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus said if we even hate our brother in our hearts, we have committed murder in God’s eyes. He also says if we even just look at someone to lust after them, God sees that as adultery even though we did not physically engage in the act. He says we must be holy as our Father in heaven is holy. Are you holy? I am not. That is why I need Jesus. God gave us the 10 commandments to live by. I have broken every single one of them, some probably many, many times. By God’s standard, I deserve to go to hell and thank God I know it. Because I knew I needed a savior and because of Christ’s death for me, I am forgiven, cleansed, make free from the Law. I don’t need to obey it to get to heaven. But I do try my best to obey it now out of love for my Savior and because He has placed His Holy Spirit within me to help me to do the things that please Him. The Christian message is not one of hate. It is one of love and hope.

            “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whomever believes in Him should not perish (in hell), but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He that believes on Him is not condemned: but he who believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation…that the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. Gospel of John 3 16-19
            Jesus did not tolerate sin. The very reason He came was to set us free from the bondage of sin and give us new life. I hope one day you will open your heart to Him too.

          • Abraão

            I praise God for your answer, it is perfect.

        • James Foard

          We all deserve to be in hell. It is God’s immeasurable grace and mercy through the sacrifice of His Son that saves us from hell and eternal damnation. Sadly, many of those in the Paris massacre had probably heard the good news and rejected it. Some of them may have even come from Christian homes and become too sophisticated and educated to believe the gospel. Now it is eternally too late. They were not worse sinners than anyone else “for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” Romans 3:23. Repent, confess your sins and turn to Christ now for the remission of your sin, for you are not guaranteed tommorow.

          • John N

            Thanks for conforming that, according to your religion, people deserve to be punished for eternity by your deity because they used their free will – and becoming too well informed to believe your ‘happy’ stories.

            It clearly shows how all gracefull and merifull your god – even if imaginary – actually is.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Amen, Angel! And nice job outing the “christian” lead singer too. 🙂

      • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

        Jesus came to DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL! HalleluYah!

      • Kimberle Taitano

        Angel: As a Christian your horrific, cruel, false hateful comments do prove one thing, YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN!” Shame on you…Are you as ignorant as you seem?

        Passing judgments on innocent murdered people on a song title? Wow how very self righteous…perhaps you might consider not so focused on condemning others who you see as “Sinners” and focus on how you have so clearly lost your way.

        And how do YOU know what Christ would love or not love…Lady you do not know the will of GOD. Stop assuming you do!

        • Angel Jabbins

          No where did I ever say that people were killed based on a song title or on their decision to attend a concert. You put words into my mouth based on your hatred for the Christian message of hope. No one is innocent. Not you or me or anyone who has ever lived since Adam. We all sin every single day. No one is good…no one. You call me cruel and hateful for telling you that and begging you to consider Jesus, His sacrifice for you sins so you can go to heaven, if only you will repent and turn to Him. My only motive in telling you that is that you would be saved from an eternity in hell. I warn with words…just words…out of concern for your immortal soul…yet you see that as hate.

          The hateful ones are those who killed the people in Paris…the Muslims whose god will not forgive and who wants everyone to live under Sharia Law where there is no freedom whatever to chose how you will live. They behead people, crucify them, throw homosexuals off tall building to their death, run people out of their homes and take all their belongings. THAT is hatred. THAT is cruelty. All I did was tell someone here…repent, turn from you sin, and be saved…words which you are free to reject or accept and that if SO offensive to you.

          “And how do YOU know what Christ would love or not love..”

          I know because of what the bible tells us. It says He loved the world so much that He gave His life….died a cruel death on a cross to take our punishment upon Himself….to save those who will come to Him and grant them eternal life.

          Your hatred for anything Christian is clouding your ability to reason.

      • jeffery

        Jesus hung out with sinners all the time. You’re just a judgmental person, “Yet he without sin throw the first stone”. I love Jesus and you know what I would have been at this show if it was in my state. This song is obviously tongue and cheek humor.

        So the reason the ISIS group targeted this event is simple it was a place with a large amount of people having fun.

        • Angel Jabbins

          Of course the reason ISIS targeted this event was because if was a large gathering of people. Of course!!! They also targeted it because they feel that people…anyone who is not a Muslim….is an infidel, evil and worthy of death. So THEY are the ones to blame for all that happened. Not Christians.
          Why are you judging me and by what standard do you judge me? You tell me not to judge, yet you are judging me. Again, by what standard.

          “Do not judge lest you be judged.because the way that you judge others will be the way that you will be judged, and you will be evaluated by the standard with which you evaluate others.” Matt 7:1-2
          This verse does not say we are NEVER to judge anyone or anything. We are to judge, but do so rightly… by God’s standard.

          No Christian here is saying the people at that concert were killed by God because they were worshipping the devil. What we do see in the picture and what we see in the lyrics is praise be given to the devil. That means probably most if not all of those people did not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and sadly, when they died, they went to hell….not because they were at that concert specifically, but because they had not come to Christ to have their sins forgiven. The Bible says we are all sinners. You, me, everyone! But no true Christian would knowingly attend a concert where Satan is being worshipped, even if it is’ tongue and cheek’ as you say. It is serious business to invoke the name of Satan. Maybe not to you…but it is to the devil and it is a dangerous thing to do. Jesus came to defeat Satan. If one truly loves Christ, they would never enjoy any joke or song praising or even jesting about the devil. The bible forbids us from even addressing him at all, in any way. It is a serious matter for a true believer in Christ, which you cannot be if you would take it so lightly.
          You cannot ‘love Jesus’ and lift your hands to make devil horns and sing words that, in even jest, praise him in any way. You are sadly very deceived.

  • Greg Ogin

    For your sakes. I hope your God isn’t as judgmental as you are. I’ll be thinking for you all.

  • Justin Foster

    It’s truly saddening, in the light of such a horrific event, the body of Christ is more concerned with Hell than showing the loving kindness of God to those hurting. Then, we have the nerve to reference Jesus, yet every time The Lord warned of Hell, it was to the religious hypocrites and people claiming to be his followers. (Mark 9:41-50, Matt. 5:22-27, 10:28-31, 23:33) Is Hell real? Very much so, but just saying what is true is not half as important as how or when you say it. “Speaking the truth in love” is not the same as saying what’s “true” in the sight of God. We’ve fallen so far from the Good News in Jesus that our message has become a get into Heaven and get outta Hell free card. That was never the Gospel! Show me one place in the book of Acts where the apostles preached “repent or go to Hell” or “repent to get into Heaven.” Heaven and Hell are secondary. Forgiveness of sin and a restored relationship with God the Father is primary! It was the relationship that was lost first because of sin. God’s judgment came after a broken relationship! (Gen.3:9-10) We really need to look back at the life and ministry of Jesus! He never spoke in the way many of us speak to unbelievers. He’d rebuke a Christian based religious person or follower much quicker than an outright unbeliever. James spoke well of people like this saying,

    *[[Jas 3:6]] ISV* “The tongue is a fire, a world of evil. Placed among the parts of our bodies, the tongue contaminates the whole body and sets on fire the course of life, and is itself set on fire by hell.”

    Jesus came to get Heaven into us, not just get us to heaven! God wants his kingdom and will done on earth as in Heaven. Have we forgotten the Lord’s prayer or God’s command to Adam? (Gen.1:28)

    The Holy Spirit lives in all who have believed in Christ so that God can manifest Heaven on earth through you just like He did in Jesus! (John 14:12) You are God’s gateway into the earth! We have to change our perspective about the world to one of having vision and hope and aligning with God’s expectation of us! Don’t we know we have the power that raised Jesus from the dead in us?!! Use it and make a difference instead of shooting out empty words of cruelty with no compassion. Go pray for people, befriend people, love people, share the GOOD news of Jesus because it’s not about their sin being so great that Jesus had to die. It’s about God loving us so much, He’d do anything for us to be with Him again in perfect relationship! (John 3:16)

    That’s awesome news! He values each of us that much!

    I could say much more, but please let’s be humble and reconsider our approach to the world. Jesus came to save, not condemn. Let’s be wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. (Matt.10:16)

    We gotta know when to be gentle and when to be stern, but this is just outrageous.

    Did you know God’s kindness is what leads people to repent (change their thinking)?

    “So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on those who practice these things and then do them yourself, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or are you unaware of his rich kindness, forbearance, and patience, that it is God’s kindness that is leading you to repent?” (Rom. 2:3-4)

    If you really fathomed how hopeful and kind God is towards you, though you as a Brother believer still fall at times into sin (worthy of judgement), there’s no way you can recklessly come off like a shotgun towards anyone without thinking twice.

    Feel free to contact me to talk more about having a Kingdom perspective based on the Good News of Jesus Christ rather than this doom and gloom bad news being preached. Also open to just chat or pray.

    [email protected]

    Grace and peace in the Holy Spirit be multiplied to all who love Jesus in sincerity. Love to all. Amen.

  • blank

    This ignorance is unforgivable. A simple search would have told you that “eagles of death metal” is not a death metal band. The name is a joke referencing ’70s soft rocker, “the Eagles”. The 2 cofounders of the band are conservatives. The singer is an ordained minister. The fans are in on the joke & were HAVING FUN! They didn’t deserve to die &, if there’s a hell, they aren’t going to it for having fun at a concert by a band all about tongue in cheek humour.

    • Josey

      Going to a concert and having fun isn’t what sends one to hell, it is a rejection of the only way of salvation God has provided through Jesus shed blood on Calvary that keeps one from Hell. Now that being said, I doubt that a believer in Christ who is actively obeying Christ and His words would go to such a concert in the first place, a follower of Christ is occupying their time with prayer, reading scriptures, being about the Fathers business.

  • acontraryview

    What a disrespectful article. Ms. Clark should be ashamed of herself.

  • bjmack

    You would make Hitler blush!

  • Cp79784

    Point #1. EODM is NOT a death metal band, you fucking dumbasses. Do your research.
    Point #2. Who are you people to say that these innocent concert goers are going to hell? Fuck off.
    Point #3. Take a good, long, look in the mirror you maniacal hypocrites.
    Point #4. Fundamentalist Christians are no better than Fundamentalist Muslims. As a matter of fact, I think they are both an abomination.
    Point #5. Please spread your fear-mongering religious message elsewhere. Perhaps Syria?
    Point #6. Fuck off.

  • Curtis Sveinsson

    Haha, reading the comments here was truly, funny. You people are absolutely nutty.

  • Tom Lovin

    What a horrible sanctimonious piece of crap you are, to belittle these victims based on your delustional sense of moral superiority.

    • Tom Lovin

      They were murdered people who are as evil in their religious zeal as you are.

  • tyler

    OK, so basically the the article is saying that not only did the concert-goers deserve to get shot and killed, but that they will surely all burn in ‘hell’.

    Gee, I wonder why christianity is plummeting in America…

    For the record, and not that it would matter one bit, but the band is not a death metal band, nor a metal band. Nor do any of the listeners or band members worship satan – probably because satan doesn’t exist.

  • Coach

    By the grace of God am I typing this, Christ saved me, though I should suffer the same fate as those who died. Perhaps many of the survivors will take a serious look at their own mortality and God will rescue them from sin and eternal hell fire as He did some of us, to Him be the glory

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Amen!

  • crusader51

    Be careful what you wish for it may just come true….now the Satan worshipers and terrorists are all in Hell together. Repent and call upon Jesus for your salvation right now.

    Romans 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is
    Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”

    Joel 2:32
    And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount
    Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said,
    even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

    Acts 2:21
    And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

  • FoJC_Forever

    The world mobilizes to avenge the deaths of 130 people, but still simply argues over the right for a woman to have her baby murdered while in her womb. People shouldn’t be surprised these things are happening. Chaos is growing and the End is at hand.

    The most important thing people need is the Salvation offered through Jesus (the) Christ. Whether a person dies after having lived 90 years or dies at the hand of a murderer at 23, they will stand before God in Judgement. If they do not know Jesus, they will be cast away into Eternal Damnation.

    Follow Jesus, find Truth.

  • Web Watcher

    While it is true all that died in this tragedy went to their eternal destiny (eternal life if saved through Jesus Christ or eternal damnation if lost), there is no credible teachings in the Word of God that support the lost went to “meeting the Devil face to face.”

    • tyler

      how do you know it’s true that people who die go to either Jesus or damnation? You don’t, nobody knows anything about what happens after you die.
      there’s not a shred of proof of anything that you could know.
      if you’re getting your facts from the bible – that was written by men who were ‘inspired’ by voices in their heads that they thought was a god.

      • Web Watcher

        you will have faith in what you will. but with God, there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. as far as authorship of the bible, there are three possibilities: 1) written by good men, 2) written by bad men, or 3) written by God. 1 cannot be true because the word of God condemns any possibility of good men. 2 cannot be true because the word of God condemns bad men to eternal punishment. that only leaves 3 as a possibility, that the word of God was written by who it says wrote it, God given to man and penned by man.

        • tyler

          why only 3 possibilities? replace ‘written by God’ with ‘written by some dumb people who thought they were hearing voices’

          • Web Watcher

            no.

          • tyler

            yes

          • Web Watcher

            your choice. your fate.

          • tyler

            duly noted

  • ppp777

    As far as I know the devil has never been in hell .

  • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

    The Satanists got to meet their Dark Lord a lot sooner than they expected! LOL!
    “Kiss the Devil” indeed.

  • George Simpson

    WOW. This is a horrible article, accusing victims of a tragedy!

    It wasn’t a Death Metal concert. The band name is a play on words. The Eagles- a soft rock band, Death-Metal a heavy genre where the musicians are wearing costumes and screaming. They are inbetween, geddit! (though they probably do sound more like the Eagles to be honest)

    And again equally ironic in it’s lyrics of ‘kiss the devil’.

    The whole album is a bit of a concept album, an in joke. Playing CHARACTERS if that makes it easier to understand. It sets a scene, a narrative, as an author might write about devil worshippers doesn’t make him a devil worshipper. Its a trashiness, a ridiculousness, absurdity. Just as Dante wrote the inferno, and i’m not saying this is such a great piece of literature, of course not its meant as a joke, fun, ridicule of a certain trashy part of american culture that resides in strip bars and the like, not glorifying it ffs. Its like fiction.

    There you go, now please stop trying to create more rifts amongst the religions that ISIS wants, please.

  • jpbazinet

    Self-righteous Christians essentially preaching that these people got what they deserved: You are no better than the disgusting cunts who carried out these attacks in the first place.
    Take your beliefs out of the equation and just be a decent human being.
    Not everyone is like you. Not everyone has to be like you. And that’s OKAY.

    • Runt Dastardly

      @[email protected]:disqus May whatever non-denominational force for good you believe in shower you with happiness and the delicious food of your choosing forever for the rightgeousness of this comment. m/

  • jeffery

    Not all Christian’s are stuck up like your new’s site. As well as the band is not an Death Metal Band. Look up children of bodom or Opeth for a real Death Metal Band. But any day of the week I’d rather spend it with a group of Death Metal fans vs anyone who actually considers this site to be news.

    • tyler

      great post!
      Many posts opposed to the article get removed by an adminstrator eventually. I’m glad I got here in time to see yours.

  • Runt Dastardly

    So, I’m assuming my comment was removed on the basis of “blasphemy”, because I dared consider the possibility that people are inherently good by their own moral compass, rather than just behaving “piously” out of fear of the wrathful judgement of some imaginary sky-daddy. M’kay. I guess I’m the schmuck who thinks we could all live in progressive, humane harmony together, if only we’d free ourselves from the idiocy of some long-dead human’s strictures of ideological dogma. Anyway, while you pious types were busy judging people on the internet, I served Thanksgiving dinner for my family, then went down to the local soup kitchen to serve 2nd shift dinner for those who actually have no family. But, hey, I guess I’m going to hell anyway, because I’m an EODM fan. Okay, that’s cool. So, basically what you’re saying is that I should hurry up and submit to your god on the basis of the terrible things he’ll do to me if I don’t submit to him? Sounds legit. But, I’m kinda’ busy right now with the needs of my fellow man, which are urgent, and are actually RIGHT HERE IN FRONT OF ME, where I can see them with my own eyes. But, I’m sure I’ll get around to getting “saved” by invisible, unverfied forces when I finally run out of ACTUAL human people who are ACTUALLY suffering, and need my help. Surely that’s a short line, right?

  • Runt Dastardly

    Cowards.

  • Runt Dastardly

    So, I’m assuming my comment was removed on the basis of “blasphemy”, because I dared consider the possibility that people are inherently good by their own moral compass, rather than just behaving “piously” out of fear of the wrathful judgement of some imaginary sky-daddy. M’kay. I guess I’m the schmuck who thinks we could all live in progressive, humane harmony together, if only we’d free ourselves from the idiocy of some long-dead human’s strictures of ideological dogma. Anyway, while you pious types were busy judging people on the internet, I served Thanksgiving dinner for my family, then went down to the local soup kitchen to serve 2nd shift dinner for those who actually have no family. But, hey, I guess I’m going to hell anyway, because I’m an EODM fan. Okay, that’s cool. So, basically what you’re saying is that I should hurry up and submit to your god on the basis of the terrible things he’ll do to me if I don’t submit to him? Sounds legit. But, I’m kinda’ busy right now with the needs of my fellow man, which are urgent, and are actually RIGHT HERE IN FRONT OF ME, where I can see them with my own eyes. But, I’m sure I’ll get around to getting “saved” by invisible, unverfied forces when I finally run out of ACTUAL human people who are ACTUALLY suffering, and need my help. Surely that’s a short line, right?