Doctor Loses Appeal of Expulsion from Boston Hospital for Statements About Health Dangers of Homosexuality

Church-compressedBOSTON — A Massachusetts urologist has lost his appeal of his expulsion from a Boston hospital for making statements on an internal online portal expressing concern about the health dangers of same-sex sexual activity.

As previously reported, Dr. Paul Church serves as a urology professor at Harvard University and has also had admitting privileges at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, where he has seen patients for nearly the past 30 years. He has additionally participated in medical missions outreaches in Mexico and Africa.

For over the past decade, Church has expressed concern to his colleagues about the hospital’s promotion of homosexual events. He has commented both via email and on the hospital’s internal portal that it is improper to promote lifestyles that are contrary to the goals of the healthcare community, and has been met with allegations that his comments constitute “discrimination and harassment” and are “offensive to BIDMC staff.”

“The evidence is irrefutable that behaviors common within the homosexual community are unhealthy and high risk for a host of serious medical consequences, including STD’s, HIV and AIDS, anal cancer, hepatitis, parasitic intestinal infections, and psychiatric disorders,” Church wrote on the portal on one occasion.

According to reports, in 2011, after being told that he would be subjected to an investigation if he does not resign, Church received a letter from a peer review committee demanding that discontinue providing his “opinion about sexual orientation, homosexuality, or other protected status.”

Church in turn asked that he discontinue receiving the hospital’s emails promoting homosexual pride events, but when he continued to receive the notices more frequently, he again spoke out. One comment was posted in 2013, and two in 2014.

“Celebrating sexual perversions is highly inappropriate, especially in the context of a medical center that should be aware of the negative health consequences of high risk behaviors,” Church wrote in 2013. “It also ignores and dishonors the religious convictions and moral objections that many members of the hospital community share who are opposed to these behaviors.”

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In 2014, he simply responded with a reference to a Bible verse, pointing to Leviticus 18:22 on one occasion and Romans 1:26-28 on another.

In September 2014, a formal investigation was launched against Church, and findings were turned over to a 25-member Medical Executive Committee for consideration. In March, the committee decided to expel Church for his “unsolicited views about homosexuality that were offensive to BIDMC Staff” and for violating the hospital’s discrimination policy.

Church appealed the expulsion, but it was upheld in September by the panel. He now reports that a final ruling from the hospital’s board of directors has likewise upheld the decision.

“Voicing medical facts, religious convictions, or traditional morality is now apparently punishable by dismissal, should a member of the staff claim to be offended by such views,” Church said in a statement. “While I am deeply disappointed in the outcome from these decisions, I feel that we have fought ‘the good fight’ and brought these valid concerns into the spotlight of the public arena.”

“I end my long affiliation with BIDMC with sincere regrets that the administration and directors have departed from the institution’s higher mission and calling to follow a highly controversial social agenda,” he continued. “I do value the many personal and professional relationships fostered there over many years. For my part, I intend to continue my medical practice elsewhere and will continue to fulfill my responsibility as a doctor by advocating for healthy and moral choices.”


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  • afchief

    Speaking truth is the enemy of liberals and homosexuals.

    • gizmo23

      Controlling speech is the right of an employer

      • Bill

        Thats not usually the case. legally.It most often applies when it upsets the liberal community.

        • gizmo23

          BS Work for any place and spout things the boss doesn’t like. The issue hear is not doing what the boss wants. Nothing more.
          If he were telling patients that Jesus was a fake, Christians were evil and they shouldn’t pray, would you be defending him?

          • afchief

            My boss is the most anti-0bama, anti-liberal, and anti-homosexual person I have ever met!!!!

            We are like two “peas in a pod”!!!! Work is great!!!!

          • gizmo23

            Good for you

          • Ablemom

            Obviously, he won’t have much trouble finding a more ethical and sane employer more respectful of his medical privilege. Doctors even get to be bosses over judges and politicians – MD’s have the privilege of telling them when they have to resign – as they too can be diagnosed as suffering dementia.

        • acontraryview

          Actually, that IS usually the case. Employers have very wide latitude on what is, and is not, permissible workplace speech.

          • Ax2root

            Medical FACTS are applicable in EVERY area

        • Violet Vanderhelm

          true

      • afchief

        Horse Hocky!!!! This was a suppression of free speech, PERIOD!!!!! His boss most likely is a flaming liberal and/or homosexual.

        I’m a project manager in my company and I here people say all kinds of insults at homos, 0liar, liberals, etc, etc. When I was in the military the same stuff was said.

        It is political correctness ran amok period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • gizmo23

          You would be fired in my company

          • afchief

            Thank God I live and work in the South where we can call homosexuality a mental disorder and dangerous to one’s health.

          • Ax2root

            Your company would fail due to ignoring FACTS

      • Ax2root

        Controlling medical facts is what was done

    • The Last Trump

      Yes, as the liberal leftist trolls here prove to us daily, actual science and proven facts are to be ignored and altogether discarded in favour of sticking to the PC narrative!
      Just incredible to behold.

      • gizmo23

        If the boss tells you to do something and you refuse you deserved to be fired. Employers have the right to control ALL speech on the job

        • Violet Vanderhelm

          Medical advice is not speech – that is the medical obligation.

          • gizmo23

            If asked by a patient yes, if for political reasons no.

          • afchief

            There is NOTHING political about it!! IT IS FACT!!!!

          • Ax2root

            FACTS ARE CONSISTENT IN EVERY area

          • gizmo23

            I don’t care if the “facts” are 100% true if your boss says no shut up or quit

          • Ax2root

            Constitution is the Law of the Land

            And medical doctors also are to ” first do no harm”

            Such as omitting FACTS

          • gizmo23

            Bs and you know it. Doctors aren’t obligated to say everything they want.
            The constitution offers no free speech protection on private property

          • Ablemom

            Not all doctors take the oath to do no harm – and actually they frequently do have to treat by means of some temporary harm, when it’s predictable that the result will be net benefit. And sadly, not all MD’s are like this on – resigning from some hospitals where board administration is intent on promoting the popular malevolence only – without any real likelihood that benefit will ever result.

          • Ablemom

            Quite obvious that the medical professional is better able to inform male and female people about their chromosomes and their hormones than the gays, lesbians, bisexuals, etc can advise anyone about facts more than just their own feelings!

          • Ablemom

            Your comment sounds like stage 1 moral reasoning – obey the boss’s order, even if the boss is about as moral as Hitler or Stalin.

          • gizmo23

            No you stand up for your morals, stop whining, and resign

          • Ablemom

            Sure, stand up for your own morals – but whose other morals and ethics do you respect and stand up for? You boss? What if like Dr. Church, you know the “Boss” is a hospital board that is caving into merely locally popular political pressure to be considerate of a minority mentality that is actually imposing potentially dangerously misleading claims that are not scientifically supported, and promoted with apparently mislead intent to mislead more people – even children. And that while you as an MD have to ethically have regard for cautions offered in regard to not merely local concerns, but National ones, and even World Health Organization statistics!

          • gizmo23

            I have no problem with him giving out facts, but his employer did not want judgement or mere opinion

          • gizmo23

            No they are not

          • Ablemom

            If a patient is going to a doctor – he or she should be going to get advice and treatment. The practice of medicine is not about politics – it’s about promoting health and protecting society from disease. But to homosexuals their lives are about unhealthy and insane ideas and spreading those with disease so they try to invent their own Ph.D’s and call them psychologists – and thus they think everything is political.

          • gizmo23

            Private advice is one thing public comments are another

          • Ablemom

            He’s a Harvard Professor – specialist in Urology – certainly has the right to advise via memos in the best interests of the entire hospital – and individually give “private” advice to patients. But, they didn’t want to listen, so he certainly does not have to waste his time there – any smart patients will probably leave and go elsewhere also.

          • gizmo23

            He publicly went against his employer and made political statements. That is why he lost his case

          • Ablemom

            Seems more like he won.

        • Ax2root

          Medical facts are facts AND RESPONSIBILITY of Doctors

          • gizmo23

            Giving Bible verses is not giving medical fact

          • Ablemom

            In some cases it is. For example – the wages of sin is death. Death is frequently a predictable medical fact.

      • Violet Vanderhelm

        agreed

        • gizmo23

          Bible verses are not medical fact

          • Violet Vanderhelm

            Yes, they can be at times. I.E. A person who practices abstinence or monogamy will never yield STDs of any kind. AMA states the same precept. (In cases of blood transfusions, a person may contract disease inclusive of some type of STDs or AIDS, though no fault of the patient.

          • gizmo23

            Some std’s can be spread without sexual contact

          • Ablemom

            STD – by definition sexually transmitted disease. Duh!

          • gizmo23

            That doesn’t mean the original host can’t get some of them non sexually. Duh!
            You could get aids from a blood transfusion Duh Duh!

          • Ablemom

            Maybe you could, but I likely won’t. Glad I live in Canada, and we stopped getting STD infected blood supplies from USA – it was far too risky and costly.

          • gizmo23

            Oh please, how do you know that? All blood is tested to minimize infection

          • Ablemom

            Canadian blood services do better than minimize. We don’t buy it. Please stay out. Clean donors only

          • bhndr

            Ablemom-
            Of course the reality is that the main mode of transmission of HIV/AIDS is heterosexual contact. 85% of all infections are due to heterosexual contact. Canada doesn’t NEED to buy their blood from the USA, they have their OWN infected blood supply.

          • Ablemom

            Yes, there are some Canadians who received infected blood contracting the HIV virus a long time ago, when Red Cross accepted supply from the USA. All of us Canadians have suffered increased taxes to help provide compensating health care for those victims. But since that scandal, measures have been appropriately taken to help ensure that never happens again.

          • Hans Geiger

            How do you know? Homos don’t read the Bible.

          • gizmo23

            Obviously you don’t

      • afchief

        So true my friend! So true!!!!

    • Jade

      What are the health risks for lesbians? I would assume less than that of heterosexuals.

      • Violet Vanderhelm

        My OBGYN, a male doctor, told me to refrain from accepting oral sex from a man due to potential health risks. So I suppose the same applies to lesbians.

        • Ablemom

          Right – mouth and throat cancers.

      • afchief

        Regarding lesbians, they face a higher breast cancer risk. One study of lesbians found that: “Sixty-three percent of the lesbians had never been pregnant….[And] Not having children increases a woman’s breast cancer risk by between two to six times.”14 Not having children also “may be a risk factor for ovarian cancer and may be implicated in endometrial cancer as well.”15

        Another study found bacterial vaginosis occuring in 33% of the lesbians but only in 13% of heterosexual women, and found that: “Cervical cytology abnormalities were uncommon but only found in the lesbians.”16 (Those abnormalities may be precursors to cervical cancers.)

        Another study of lesbians found a “relatively high prevalence of the viral STDs, herpes simplex and human papillomavirus [HPV].”17 And according to another: “Genital HPV infection and squamous intraepithelial lesions are common among women who are sexually active with women.”18 HPV has been connected to cervical cancer. “DNA analysis has revealed that about 15 types of the virus account for more than 99 percent of all cervical cancer cases.”19

        (One reason lesbians have a relatively high incidence of STDs is that, as some studies have documented, lesbians have more sexual partners than heterosexual women. For example, a large University of Chicago study concluded that lesbians have four times as many sexual partners as straight women.20)

        Two short quotes from the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association. These were found on its website in a document titled “Top 10 Things Lesbians Should Discuss with their Healthcare Provider.”

        1) “Lesbians have the richest concentration of risk factors for breast cancer than any subset of women in the world.”

        2) “Lesbians have higher risks for many of the gynecologic cancers.”

        We’ll conclude this section on lesbian STDs with this quote from the Oct. 2012 Advocate, a homosexual magazine: “A link between lesbians and cancer, particularly breast cancer, is more than speculation, say experts….[E]xperts believe that lesbians have an increased risk of developing breast cancer….[T]he National LGBT Cancer Network says cancer disproportionately affects lesbians.”21

        It should be noted that lesbian sexual diseases have not been researched nearly as much as male homosexual sexual diseases. This is because lesbian sex was presumed to be relatively safe. Some doctors are fairly calling for more research into the health of lesbians. With more study, we may find the “lesbian lifestyle” is not so safe after all.

        • Jim

          What a load. This is pure propaganda and misinformation.

          • afchief

            Only to reprobate minds i.e. homosexuals.

      • Kimberly Rock

        Choking on carpet fibers…

      • jennylynn

        For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God brings salvation through Christ Jesus our LORD. Romans 3:23

    • Ax2root

      People will have bad P/ C fascist doctors who ignore medical science or excellent doctors the fascists want fired

  • Nidalap

    Lovely. Political correctness trumps medical expertise when it comes to staffing our hospitals and medical centers now…

    • Emmanuel

      Planned Parenting comes to mind.

  • 201821208 :)

    “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.” Rom. 1:26-27

  • The Skeptical Chymist

    I’m certain that Dr. Church was not fired for presenting medical facts about the health risks about certain behaviors. That is exactly what a doctor is employed to do. He should be presenting the health risks, and describing to his patients how to mitigate them (condom use, etc.). Where he goes wrong is when he injects his non-medical opinions and personal religious beliefs into his interactions with his patients, as in his quoted reference to “sexual perversions”. That sort of activity, if repeated is certainly grounds for dismissal.

    • Emmanuel

      I agree, if he would have left out his faith, he would be working. The only problem, working in a hostile environment. So, what worse?

    • jennylynn

      The Bible is the author of medical Science and laws which is where medicine began. So by interjecting his “personal religious beliefs” is actually based in scientific fact which liberals deny to acknowledge. They like being their own god..

      • the colosseum is full

        we are all gods didn’t you know? Psalm 82 :6 and John 8:34

        • jennylynn

          Elohim in the Hebrew in this passage means judges, magistrates, mighty ones. It is used as a title of
          authority. Jesus was emphasizing His deity while comparing their titles as judges, (gods) so the title should not offend them.

          • the colosseum is full

            If Jesus was trying not to offend them then he would not have said their father is the devil and the words of their father they do in John 8:42-44 … 🙂
            I know this , 🙂 God called my ex a god, and reproved me for putting her before him, when he was filling me with the Holy Ghost! saying the first commandment to me in my sleep January of 2011. waking me up and making me remember 33 1/2 years before exposing the reason why he cut it short in righteousness… when the Holy Ghost fell on me! 🙂
            I woke up and said out loud, God!!!! You, just now telling me that!!!!!!
            I sat there in awe! astonished, wonder and amazement ….
            Imagine just how greatly and grievously in error so many of us are…then remember the power of the blood of Jesus that protects us from the wrath of God! 🙂

    • Ablemom

      Ok – so if he called it “non-medically recommendable sexual alternatives” then the errant behaviours would still be perverse.

    • Ablemom

      Grounds to stay away from Boston and certainly avoid that hospital at any cost.

  • Emmanuel

    Blessings to you Doc.

  • Josey

    Good for the Doctor, God bless him in his endeavors and for stating the health risks associated with homosexuality. God puts warning in scripture because He loves us, only a fool refuses instruction.

  • John Crank

    I believe that Dr. Church is fully within the law and the ethics of his profession to inform his patients and the general public of habits and/or behaviors which may have negative effects on our health.

    • acontraryview

      He is bound by the directives of his employer.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Yes, but that’s not what he was doing. He was sending unwelcome, unwanted messages about homosexuality on a company listserv after he had been told to stop. The recipients were not his patients, nor were they interested in his opinion.

      • Ablemom

        Evidently his better advice was unwanted – but as staff that are required to obey his directives as a Medical officer, for the best interests of his patients, the staff and directors of the hospital should have taken an attitude of respectful interest to be fully ethical to serve the better interests of their clients. The patients are not the property of the hospital and it’s politically appointed board of directors – they are their Doctor’s patients – and if they refuse his direction, they are likely going to die anyway, going to that hospital. I for one will do my best to avoid ever being taken into Boston’s hospital.

    • gizmo23

      Not if his employer doesn’t want him to

    • Violet Vanderhelm

      I agree but look what happened to a dr who did not support gay life style for whatever his reasons, religious and/or medical reasons.

  • acontraryview

    ahhhhhh. Is the doctor upset because he got fired for doing something his employer told him not to do? Bad employer! Imagine, firing someone for doing something they were told not to do! Unbelievable!

    • Ablemom

      Ordered to resign (not fired) and for doing something good, he was told not to do. Boston should be ashamed, and hopefully will be doomed to not being able to afford to treat it’s perverse patients – then they will we wanting other MD’s to help them get lethal injections.

  • Reason2012

    Are we ready to get back to the truth of God yet? God says He gives any nation up to perversions that give Him up.

    Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    And homosexuality, transgenderism, crossdressing, anti-American islam and more are becoming rampantly forced upon America, and those who dare disagree are called bigots who have mental disorders and phobias.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…

    See how effortlessly the government can get away with violating the very First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America? Hundreds of millions of Americans doing nothing while Constitution is completely and utterly ignored. Convinced yet this country is not immune from the judgment of God?

    …or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…

    It already is a criminal offense now to refuse to support same-gender marriage with your businesses, even if you have no problem serving those who feel the need to announce they’re into homosexuality – now it’s a criminal offense in the entire country.

    Constitution? Trampled on. Christian beliefs? Criminalized. Homosexuality? Transgender? Cross-dresser? [insert next perversion here] Islam that slaughters Americans? Celebrated and legally enforced.

    Are we ready to get back to God and realize His judgments are true? Are we weary of evil in this world that continues to grow at an alarming rate? We are all going to face judgment and God/Christ offers forgiveness to whosoever may come. We simply believe Jesus is God, believe on what He did on the cross as the only way to be reconciled back to God for our lifetime of sinning, and call upon Him to save us, realizing we need righteousness outside of ourselves.

    John 3:14-21 “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved [exposed]. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”

    May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

    Live forever, friends! Don’t settle for this one lifetime here just to wallow in sin and throw away eternal life and be cast out into_hell!

  • George Fillin

    May the Lord honour this man and grant him immediate employment or gain. Remember the Lord your God, for it is he that enables you to get wealth.

  • micahel porter

    good on ya m8. u stick up for ur beliefs

  • Violet Vanderhelm

    condoms break and don’t always work. I do not believe he was injecting religious view points to patients but the hospital should not send emails around about gay pride etc as some people are offended since it is contrary to Christian beliefs. I worked in large corporations and controversial issues like gay pride events were never sponsored nor advertised via emails.

  • jennylynn

    Praise God for this doctor who actually follows medical ethics and cares about human health; unlike the majority who are cowards And bow down to political deadly
    Correctness.

    Woe to them who call evil good and good evil, who call sweet bitter and bitter sweet, who call darkness light and light darkness.
    Isaiah 5:20

  • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

    Gays be gay! Now that Church is out of the way, STD’s, HIV and AIDS, anal cancer, hepatitis, parasitic intestinal infections, and psychiatric disorders won’t hurt you anymore.

  • bhndr

    Oh where does one start with all the OBVIOUS problems here?

    1) “…it is improper to promote lifestyles that are contrary to the goals of the healthcare community”

    Except of course that the “healthcare community promotes tolerance, understanding and acceptance instead of bigotry and falsifying information just to soothe subjective beliefs of a FEW.

    2) ““The evidence is irrefutable that behaviors common within the homosexual community are unhealthy and high risk for a host of serious medical consequences, including STD’s, HIV and AIDS, anal cancer, hepatitis, parasitic intestinal infections, and psychiatric disorders,” Church wrote on the portal on one occasion.”

    Except that for the most part, there is no measurable difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality when it comes to the matters of health risks that are listed. When it comes to HIV/AIDS it is MORE likely that you will catch such through heterosexual contact that homosexual contact. What is worse is that this is a “doctor” who KNOWS that what he is saying is patently false and yet just because he “believes” something, he is willing to LIE and abuse his position of authority.

    3) “Celebrating sexual perversions is highly inappropriate, especially in the context of a medical center that should be aware of the negative health consequences of high risk behaviors,”

    Except that being homosexual is not a perversion but is rather a HEALTHY and natural expression of sexuality that is common to ALL life.

    4) “It also ignores and dishonors the religious convictions and moral objections that many members of the hospital community share who are opposed to these behaviors.”

    Except that this policy does NOTHING of the sort. It doesn’t ignore the religious convictions, it merely places them in the PROPER PERSPECTIVE. As a doctor or healthcare provider, you are there to provide healthcare, not to force your opinions onto others. You are not there to decide if someone is worth your time, you are there to provide healthcare. You are not there to preach and “spread the gospel”, you are there to provide healthcare and personal beliefs are Irrelevant!

    5) “Voicing medical facts, religious convictions, or traditional morality is now apparently punishable by dismissal, should a member of the staff claim to be offended by such views,” Church said in a statement.
    Except that this doctor wasn’t talking medical facts but subjective religious ideology. Except that there is no such thing as “traditional morality” since morals are different from country to country, religion to religion, Time period to time period. Except that this had nothing to do with religious conviction but about this person INTENTIONALLY violating MULTIPLE WARNINGS just so he can feel arrogantly self-important.
    As for the inevitable personal attacks that will follow, (funny how it is the “Christians” that are so very verbally abusive), bring them on, its not as if I haven’t heard it all before….. Time to get some new arguments folks …. maybe some that have the SLIGHTEST relationship to the truth…. so far all that is put forth are the same LIES and proven fallacies that were being bandied around 60 years ago.

    • Ablemom

      Oh where does one begin to point out all the fallacious disinformation here? First, the statistics citied pertain to an extremely promiscuous sample that still has no respect nor honours monogamous and chaste Sacramentally married parents, grandparents, and ancestors – that still erroneously claims “sexual health” is merely a function of fleeting feelings or orgasmic surges of dopamine during sexual excitement, induced with drug and medication dependencies. Second, it rely’s on the belief that human persons are not individuals possessed of feelings and internal logic and naturally life seeking from the time of conception – that’s it’s “healthy” to kill babies in utero, then leave their mothers with no psychiatric means to treat themselves for guilt and shame of consenting to become more- prone to cancers, infertility, and more risk of death if they do develop a tubal pregnancy and hemorrhage to death. Finally the argument against this doctor relies on psycho-babble of secular psychologists possessed themselves of no medical or biological knowledge, but a lot of sexual fetishes themselves. it relies on the notion that the traditions of the Holy Roman Catholic Church and it’s social doctrine have not existed for almost 20 centuries, unchanged – that it’s Holy Sacraments were not always advocated and taught to promote chastity, poverty, and obedience to the word of God as moral and sane and healthy virtues among it’s Holy Priesthood of vocations and historians and prophets and believers to cultivate morality – and that it has not always suffered the persecutions of the immoral and sinful against it and even within it, severely even in recent days, as harmfully as ever.

      • bhndr

        Ablemom-

        I mean the following with all due respect….
        you say-
        ” First, the statistics citied pertain to an extremely promiscuous sample that still has no respect nor honours monogamous and chaste Sacramentally married parents, grandparents, and ancestors…”

        me-
        Then first this doctor should not be trying to make a MINORITY report reflect on a majority of people. Promiscuity is hardly the purview of homosexuals and indeed until recently there was social encouragement to be promiscuous since there was no room for recognized monogamous homosexual relationships. By denying civil rights and equal protections for gay couples, society discourages monogamy in homosexual persons. NOT to mention the fact that the majority of heterosexuals are ALSO widely promiscuous so there is REALLY not any grounds for this Doctor to have made such a fuss.

        you-
        “Second, it rely’s on the belief that human persons are not individuals possessed of feelings and internal logic and naturally life seeking from the time of conception…”

        me-

        VERY RESPECTFULLY, that is pure hogwash. It is because people have feelings, that homosexuals have feelings that the issue of HUMAN EQUALITY arises. That the way you are treated simply because you are a human being is the way that I SHOULD BE TREATED because I am also a human being. When you are respected for your long-term relationship, I should also be respected for MY long-term relationship. As for “internal logic” that is just a code word for your own subjective beliefs that have been forced onto others.

        Finally, concerning the “Naturally life seeking” part, that is also silly since I can assure you that I am a live and seek to stay that way. There is not a person that is alive today that is not geared for living and seeking life. IN FACT, it is this life seeking that causes homosexuals to seek human companionship even to the spousal relationship (homosexuals marrying has existed for almost the entire length of human history). It is only by denying your innate need for human contact that you stop loosing the drive for life.

        you-
        “…that’s it’s “healthy” to kill babies in utero, then leave their mothers with no psychiatric means to treat themselves for guilt and shame of consenting to become more- prone to cancers, infertility, and more risk of death if they do develop a tubal pregnancy and hemorrhage to death.”

        me-

        As a anti-abortionist, I could not agree with you more. YET this has nothing to do with homosexuals, it was women that forced the Abortion issue through. Personally I am also a little unforgiving in this regard (except for cases of rape or fatal risk to mother), and think that a woman that has an abortion should then be medically sterilized. THAT would make them think before they jump into bed. BUT that is just me.

        you-
        Finally the argument against this doctor relies on psycho-babble of secular psychologists possessed themselves of no medical or biological knowledge,

        me-
        Nonsense! If you actually paid any attention instead of blindly accepting propaganda, you would know that the classification of homosexuality as a mental disease didn’t happen until the 1940’s. The classification of homosexuality as a mental disorder was based on NO EVIDENCE at all, and through its entire existence as a classified illness, there remained NO EVIDENCE of its disease progression (mandatory for a classification of disease biologically speaking). The facts remain that biology itself proves that homosexuality is as normal, natural, AND healthy as is heterosexuality. IN FACT, it is scientific fact that groups that have homosexuals as accepted members are MORE likely to survive than those that are repressive. The repression of sexual nature is among the most damaging of all social pressures and social failings.

        you-
        “it relies on the notion that the traditions of the Holy Roman Catholic Church and it’s social doctrine have not existed for almost 20 centuries, unchanged”
        me-
        Except that is EASY to prove the church has changed its dogmas and doctrines constantly, That the church did not even EXIST as a functional organized faith until the mid 300’s AD, AND that it was yet another 2-4 HUNDRED years before the church consolidated power and dogma. This is simply a matter of consulting the WRITTEN records of the times involved. EVEN NOW, the church changes its tune on many subjects. NOR has the church really been in existence for 20 centuries since it split early into Greek Orthodox and The Roman Church, then it was later split by the protestant reformation, and now it is failing as a church worldwide as membership for ALL Christian religions are dwindling. UNLESS the church evolves faster than it is at present, it is doubtful that the church will exist for more than another hundred years.
        These observations are simply the truths as related by the WRITTEN documentation and are without question the truth of the matter rather than the self-serving lip-service of church leaders.
        Now as it stands, I happen to be rather religious myself and I am NOT intending for you to take this as an attack because it is not. The truth ENHANCES religion, it never detracts, so why be afraid of what is real? So when the truth is that the church didn’t have a single doctrine until well into the mid 800’s, that doesn’t detract from the journey and the beliefs, these are faith based matters AND BY BIBLICAL DEFINITION are without evidence. That is what makes it a matter of faith.

        • Ablemom

          What do same-sex partners need marriage for? Certainly not to procreate children – and those raised by same-sex partners – most reach a point where they think they were cheated of a normal biological family. The “feelings” of homosexuals are not more important than those of others – in fact, less – because normal biological parents need to care not only about each other’s feelings – they need to care about the feelings and needs of all their children – even grandchildren.

          • bhndr

            Ablemom-

            What would be the reason for the need for marriage? It is of course not procreation although adoption is a valid point and NO, most kids raised in such a household do not feel cheated…. MOST are actually rather enthusiastic and happy they got to have a home instead of being shuffled from stranger to stranger, beaten and sexually molested and all because they represent a check.

            But that is of course only ONE aspect, there is also Joint property ownership that is barred to homosexual couples, insurance and beneficiary benefits, the ability to leave your money and/or possessions to the surviving partner, tax benefits, joint banking, hospital visitation, next of kin status, and there are another 1480+ other benefits that are denied on nothing but arrogant hetero-supremacy.

            And what about Civil Unions? Those can be dissolved by a complete stranger WITHOUT the consent of the involved parties and provide NO security or legal standing at all. AND NO, you can’t legislate the missing rights, congress can’t even tie its shoes without taking 8 years let alone to decide on about 1500 rights and responsibilities.

            Now I understand that you may well disagree with a person being homosexual, (obvious from your demand that homosexuals are to be treated as LESS than.), but your disagreement is irrelevant since this is a nation of CIVIL law, not religious ideology ensconced in legality. INDEED even “church weddings” have no legal validity standing until they are approved by the civil authorities.

            Homosexuals are HUMAN BEINGS and have the EXACT same range AND depth of feelings and emotions and that you would even claim otherwise shows your lack of factual knowledge and your dependence on rumor and gossip.
            Why not educate yourself rather than merely parroting the lies that have been told by the religious.

          • Ablemom

            There is no reason why a homosexual wanting to co-habit with another homosexual needs a “marriage licence” to negotiate a legal agreement to rent or establish joint title to property – other than that they have to do something in that property to benefit society. If they can’t produce anything beneficial in that property other than provide palliative care for each other – then they can still retain Last Wills and Testaments attempting to bequeath anything left of their combined assets at the time of death to the surviving partner. I don’t know about your USA laws, but in Canada, anyone can appoint anyone they want to entrust to be their executor and trustee, or nominate someone else to be the one to make decisions as to personal directives, if deemed unable by two medical doctors to make decisions acceptable in the public interest. Our adult son is heterosexual – married with dependent children. A few years before he married, hen he was 20 years old, and enrolled in University 2nd year studies, he had appointed his father as his trustee and myself to make decisions for him in the public interest, if he was ever injured or in an emergency deemed unable to make decisions for himself in the public interest. He did make decision in the public interest to evict a male tenant who was threatening him. Thereafter he was trespassed upon by some evidently homosexual cops in a Police Union, and Taser-tortured in his bedroom. We are now currently owed $1,000,000.00 aggravated injury loss and property damage loss to date. I am reporting the aggravated loss to Revenue Canada this year. I am entirely persuaded those faggot cops have no range of human feelings whatsoever. They have never apologized, for committing sadistic Taser Torture, contrary to Section 269.1 of the Criminal Code, and hopefully will soon be sentenced to 10 years in jail.

        • Ablemom

          Who started the abortion industry? Quite sure it is mainly men who find it more profitable than the women involved in it.

          • bhndr

            Ablemom-
            The “abortion industry” has existed as long as humans have been having children. The difference is that abortion is safer when done legally and with RELATIVE safety by a medical professional instead of in a back-alley with wire coat hangers. Our present system of legal abortion (something I oppose BTW) comes from WOMEN and was forced as a legal matter BY WOMEN.
            Personally I support abortion in ONLY one instance, that of a direct threat to the life of the mother. That is a rarity given our medical knowledge and expertise. Other than this ONE reason, abortions should not be legal and any woman that gets an abortion should then be sterilized. But that is my opinion and my opinions are NOT binding on anyone else NOR SHOULD they be binding on others.

          • Ablemom

            The abortion industry in Canada has never been deemed “safe” – which is why legally, it is not permitted to operate in Federally or Provincially regulated hospitals, that can be sued for medical malpractice. Waivers are required to be signed, even for possible death to the mother resultant from the procedure – and before that applicants for the “dis-service” to themselves have to accept all the information pertaining to risks as warnings given them. In Canada, the only circumstances where a D&C can be performed with potential liability for accidental death born by the hospital, if at least the life of the mother, and a baby able to breathe even for just a few minutes is not saved, is when she applies for assistance to a hospital-authorized obstetrician, as directed by her family doctor – as in the case of a previously undetected tubal pregnancy, or spontaneous miscarriage, not intentionally caused by any action of the mother. The Catholic Women’s league of Canada provides funds and does fund-raising for “cuddle cots” donated to hospitals so babies who are not expectable to survive can have palliative care in hospital, surrounded by mothers, fathers, and siblings who wanted and love them.

          • Ablemom

            Abortion clinics are tax-funded Provincially in Canada, only outside of hospitals, and where there is sufficient access to hospitals that the applicants can also apply to as a preferable choice for safe service. I protest to Revenue Canada even providing that dis-service as dis-information likely to harm women. I do so because I am a Canadian Counsellor, and a Catholics, and know it is unsafe and irresponsible to engage in sexual activity outside the bounds of civil and Sacramental marriage.

          • Ablemom

            Actually, I do receive some disability pension funding from Service Canada that assists me to work and earn up to $5,000 annually, to provide my counselling services. I have never consented to have an abortion – nor to sexual activity outside of my marriage of almost 40 years.

          • bhndr

            Ablemom-
            Nothing in your post makes much difference. the facts are still that a woman in Canada CAN obtain a safe and legal abortion if she so desires. Like I said though, I am against abortions anyway (except for the one exception I noted).
            And you are aware that there is no reality to “palliative care”, not for infants and not for young or old adults. There is the feeble attempt to provide a pain-free death but as yet, that has not happened in the history of medicine. FAR better to allow an adult the rational decision to end their life on their own terms instead of being forced into a miserable ending that is hard on the patient and HARDER on the family and friends. I have been to 267 funerals and have seen more death than most people have in their entire life. I have witnessed first hand the continued failure of “palliative care”. When it takes 500 milligrams of morphine every 30 minutes just to remain lucid, palliative care has failed.

          • Ablemom

            Quite sure that anyone taking morphine every 30 minutes would not be described by an MD as “lucid” just mercifully kept from feeling all the physical pain of dying. What makes you assume others like me, have not also seen many dying and also attended many funerals?

          • bhndr

            Ablemom-
            NOPE 500 mg every 30 minutes just to be lucid and IN PAIN. The reason that this man, his name was Andrew, was not given MORE was because the more would have killed him outright and because the doctors wanted to get as much money out of him and his family, they did not allow him to pass gracefully.
            I didn’t say that you have not seen death or have not attended some or many funerals. But can you HONESTLY say that you have witnessed 267 deaths in a 5 year period? Lost 7 friends to death in just 3 days? And the reason the death count is not HIGHER is because I could not stay immersed in that death and misery any longer and still retain my sanity. AND yes I am referring to the HIV/AIDS crisis of the 1980’s and 1990’s and my work at a service organization for people with AIDS.
            SO I have a lot more experience with death than most people have in their entire lifetime.

          • Ablemom

            Interesting you seem to equat being sexually orientated to being sexually active and then to anyone like me who advocates chastity you lash out at accusing me of pushing people away.

          • Ablemom

            So what makes you think dying should be painless, any more than life is painless, and every homosexual should be privileged to engage in as much of what they think is pleasurable sex, without paying anything to support and care about and properly educate children?

          • bhndr

            Ablemom-
            Quite a few issues in this post…
            1) Dying is not of necessity a painless process BUT it is a matter that can and should be handled a lot better than it is.
            2) As for the sexual aspect, I am the one that is ENCOURAGING the stability and security that comes with a committed marriage. I am the one that is advocating a way to DECREASE promiscuity.
            3) Homosexuals are actually MORE supportive of children than most heterosexuals are. Homosexuals are ALSO the ones that are pushing for proper and factual education instead of subjective religious ideology. Educate the children on the realities and then if you choose, and in faith and religion.

          • Ablemom

            Sorry I can not agree. The homosexuals I know of have caused a lot of problems for children whether in private or public life plus demand more public health care and correctional services from the government purse than the faithful or chaste among them contribute by paying tax from the profits of honest business or employment. You can keep your opinion without any statistical or financial evidence to back up what you claim. I have a very well informed perspective in Canada where our health care has been fully tax funded since the 1950’s and our public education system is failing while the Catholic education many parents from many cultural backgrounds are wanting and glad for their children to be taught about human sexuality is successful and even those homosexuals who accept that Church teaching find it helps keep them sane and chaste.

          • bhndr

            Ablemom-
            I can respect that your own experiences are different than mine and it is a safe bet to say that I have known far more homosexuals than you have. You are correct though I do not know the Canadian system of government of even much of Canadian society. Yet that doesn’t mean that my points are invalid, they are merely different because of our different life experiences. I happen to know for a fact that homosexual people here in the USA are far more likely to help the poor and the dis-enfranchised because we homosexuals have ourselves been poor and disenfranchised. NOR do homosexuals take up more of the healthcare that exists in the USA, that lies squarely in the lap of heterosexuals and I would suggest that the same is true in Canada if for no other reason than there are more heterosexuals than homosexuals both here in the USA and also in Canada.
            As for “those homosexuals that accept church teaching” most are miserable and are more apt to commit suicide. That is what happens when a person is told CONSTANTLY that they are worthless and the world would be much better without them. There are hundreds of stories that are now coming out where the church (catholic and protestant) has been advocating to gay youth that they just hurry and kill themselves since they are going to go to hell anyway. (you can look these stories up on google very easily), What effect does that have on an impressionable child that is begging for help? I volunteer at a suicide hotline and a large portion of my work is given to helping the disaffected gay youth that are so badly wounded by the callousness of the modern church.
            As for public education, the reality is that public education is failing almost everywhere you look (except for some few European countries). It is failing because people want to have this subject talked about or that subject removed from the curriculum. Here in the USA the republican party is trying to re-write America’s history and erase ALL negative aspects from the school curriculums. Then add in the volatile subject of human sexuality and people go ballistic. Personally I think that human sexuality SHOULD be taught in school and include issues of homosexuality as well, birth control as well because these are simply the objective facts of human life. Abstinence is a great idea but unfortunately, it is not very effective and the most effective method of protecting children from making the mistake of getting pregnant or avoiding contracting a deadly illness is to educate with the facts. Let religious belief and faith have a place, but not at the expense of telling the truth.

          • Ablemom

            Personally – I am sure that the abortifacients that have been marketed so widely to be used as birth control, continue to cause a lot of problems for women’s health and society generally – among those problems – more likelihood that more girls will develop cancers, and more boys will develop abnormal sexual orientations also. So, unless that is also taught in the school curriculum around human sexuality – I can not ethically teach it. I can ethically teach what the Catholic schools in Canada offers as human sexuality education. Abstinence is very effective – but procreation is also necessary – and as God said, best accomplished without adultery and by trusting primarily in Him. As to those homosexuals who accept Roman Catholic teaching, I am sure there are many who have no desire to commit suicide, and who have obtained the special graces they need from God to live chastely as single people in the world.

          • Ablemom

            You evidently know very little about all of Canada. There are communities in our Northern territories where women sometimes can not even get to a doctor to assist them deliver a baby – and certainly not even drive to an abortion clinic.

          • Ablemom

            You can’t always get what you want…

        • Ablemom

          Homosexuality normal? I guess it is for homosexuals – but as to being a “healthy lifestyle”, the stats are they have far more STD’s and frequently die young. So I guess for people who are adulterers, it’s normal to be promiscuous – for those who are thieves, it’s normal to steal – for those who are murderers, it’s normal to kill. Because the propensity to sin is normal, does not make it right in the eyes of God, nor of those who are offended.

        • Ablemom

          The Catholic Church is God’s Church. God has not changed and neither has His Holy Church – nor any of the doctrine and traditions He established. The only thing that changes about His Holy Church, is the people in it and how well they understand what Christ taught about becoming Holy also to imitate Him. He had human feelings to – but He did not insist on other people respecting his feelings. In fact, He knew some would hate Him so much that they would crucify Him. He died – three days later rose from the dead – ascended to Heaven telling his followers to baptise, teach, and do as He did. It’s a Catholic tradition – it’s called the Way to become a Saint. And in case you haven’t noticed, there are still some Christians being executed in some countries – by the same method – crucifixion. So, no – the true Church has not really changed.

  • Don Karns

    BIDMC, according to unrelated news articles, requires the medical staff to affirm some version of the Hippocratic Oath. On examination, would it be the Doctor or his employers who violated their oath in speaking of what was healthy for their patients. One final exam and judgment also awaits this doctor and his employers, and each will give an account to the just Judge of all the earth. Will He not be judge righteously? Without excuse are they who know what’s right and act contrary to their conscience.

  • poppyw

    When the heathens gain a majority, the free speech of a Christian doctor is not upheld. Given what the doctor said about the utterly nasty lifestyle of homosexuals, there is no way I would ever want treatment from this hospital.

  • American4Truth

    I find that homosexuals offend me, so please keep them from offending me and half of American citizens.

    • Ablemom

      I hope it’s more than half of American’s that are offended by the homosexual political agenda. You could count a lot of Canadians and Latin Americans into the percentage also.

      • bhndr

        Ablemom
        you are bound to be VERY disappointed. the majority of Americans are in favor of BOTH equal rights for gays and marriage equality. As is Canada and most of the advanced cultures and industrialized nations. EVEN the majority of the religious are in favor of civil equality and marriage equality. Time you get the facts.

        • Ablemom

          I have no doubt the homosexual community will be very disappointed when they die and find that God doesn’t recognize the names they gave themselves, nor the genders. God is no bound by time.

          • bhndr

            Ablemom-
            I have no worries as to my soul’s salvation. I am a far better Christian than most that claim the title. I actually PRACTICE the words and the example of Christ, I do not NEED anything else but the word of Jesus Christ who said ALL that ever needed to be said about what is and is not acceptable behavior. You go ahead and rely on the words of a mere MAN, live your life according to what the church tells you and you will find yourself being numbered among the goats. I will be living the good life in Heaven, you will be regretting your hypocrisy and your blasphemy.

          • Ablemom

            “If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.” Mark 9:42 and “When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.” 1 Corinthians 8:12 God’s Holy word does not offend, He admonishes against offending.

          • bhndr

            Ablemom-
            your first problem is that you cannot prove that being homosexual is a stumbling block. INDEED the message of Christ is SILENT, thus GOD is also silent on the issue. the ENTIRE belief in the sinfulness of homosexuality relies on the words of a MERE MAN. NOT on the word of God.
            Secondly you have the problem, the REAL problem, of pushing people away from God/Christ and thus YOU are the stumbling block yourself.

          • Ablemom

            No stumbling block for me. Be whoever you are. Just don’t expect everyone else to approve of and support and give public respect and privilege for behaviour in private that obviously is high risk for harming many more as much as some claim it is not harmful for themselves.

          • bhndr

            Ablemom-
            I am who ZI am and cannot be anything other than who I am, nothing will ever change that. NOR do I require your approval or the approval of anyone. Respect is another matter though. I deserve and demand respect just as YOU demand respect for who you are and how you live your life.
            NOR is being a homosexual a matter for closed doors, you do not hide your heterosexuality because you are out in public and I should not be forced to hide myself just to soothe your conscience.
            AND again, homosexuality is no more harmful than being heterosexual.

          • Ablemom

            I have not disrespected you I have only critiqued some of your comments as those are all I can see of your behaviour. But you generalize making excessive claims of everyone and have assumed my behaviour offensive of you. Good critics are the guardians of our souls if they Honour God above all men and women. I certainly do not need you to soothe my conscience. I am not hiding my face and have no real need to hide my name either. Equal rights for respect as dignified human beings fine- if people do not indignify themselves. Equity in what is given to those who are beneficial in they way the serve the neediest of children and widowed mothers – I sure do not see enough of that coming from politicians who have surely defrauded the public with support from LGBTQ activists. Not here in Canada.

          • bhndr

            Ablemopm-
            I need to make something VERY clear to you. It comes in two parts.
            1) Nothing I say is meant to be taken personally. I do not know you except from these few posts and there is absolutely NO way that I could ever have anything to say about you personally. I try to keep it in mind that the forums and discussions are NOT able to convey this and so I usually try to make it known FIRST that nothing I say is to be taken personally.
            2) I need to apologize right here and now if I have said anything that made you feel that I was targeting you with my posts. If this has happened (and only you personally could answer that), I sincerely regret that I did not take the time to clarify my intent.

          • Ablemom

            I accept your apology, because as I can recall from scrolling up, you did firstly reply to my comment that was not addressed to you, but was a reply to “American4Truth” in this thread. When I make a general comment on a journalist’s article, I deem it addressed primarily to the Journalist and secondarily to the general audience. But when I reply to someone else’s comment, it is addressed to that individual, though of course may be read by anyone who cares to. Whatever I write as reply to a person is thus directed personally, and what I receive as reply is also taken personally. I presume, the settings from Discus – advising me of reply, to my comment, would not alert everyone in the general audience of every reply I receive. No offence was intended to you, by me expressing the hope I initially commented to someone else – that more than half of the American public would feel offended by a political agenda driven to serve homosexual interests primarily. However, I do recognize that if Allan Turing had not worked so patriotically for the UK to help break code, so WWII could be ended earlier in Europe – my father in a Canadian Regiment, and my husband’s father (unwillingly conscripted by the Germans) might have both been killed by bombs or tanks. So, I certainly do not disrespect anyone for their feelings – it’s just how people act on their feelings that can become excessively offensive.

          • bhndr

            Ablemom-
            As for the issue of being respected, that was in answer to your, (personal you), statement that homosexuals and homosexuality should stay behind closed doors and not demand to be acknowledged in the public square.
            Your personal behavior is not something that I could even begin to comment on, I have however had MANY experiences of how homosexuals have been generally treated in public. I was beaten with a 2X4 to the face and still bear the scars 30+ years later. I have lost jobs because of “Christians” who I had tried to confide in (and tried to re-join a church), decided to go behind my back and inform my employer that I should be immediately fired OR ELSE. I have been disowned by my “Christian” family and have not seen my mother or siblings for over 30 years. I have been spat on and betrayed by the very churches that SHOULD be the ones to try and reach out to me and others like me. I have gone to church and had people GET UP and sit elsewhere leaving me all alone in a crowded church. THESE are not the actions of Christ or anything CLOSE to a Christian attitude which is why I say that the church position AND actions are designed to push people AWAY from God, not to draw them towards God.
            Now speaking about YOU personally, I would bet the world that you are a wonderful and compassionate person and that you actually CARE very much about others, even those you may disagree with. I say that because MOST “Christians” I meet are very nice people who have the best of intentions yet they cannot see past the dogmas and doctrines to speak with the human being they are, unfortunately, pushing further and further away from God. I am ALWAYS saying to my more militant homosexual friends that the problems that homosexuals face are NOT born from homophobia, but instead are based in APATHY. That is why I come here to these religious discussions…. NOT to try and have Christians change or abandon their faith but to simply reach out and say that I am a human being that has feelings and I do not need condemnation, I need acceptance for simply being a fellow human being. I respect your faith AND I understand your faith having grown up in the church myself, slated for missionary/preaching. YET faith is not a valid reason for the attempt to isolate and punish homosexuals.

          • Ablemom

            Ok – what I can suggest, as a Catholic, is that instead of trying to get empathy from any and all “christians” lumping them all into one group – recognize that many don’t all subscribe to, nor obey Roman Catholic doctrine and dogma – and are recognized as heretical by those that do. And many so-called “cradle Catholics” have never really learned any true Catholic doctrine – and don’t all actively practice their faith obediently – we all sin also. So, as a Counsellor, I could advise anyone who does not want to suffer prejudice or “condemnation” in life – don’t go to just anyone who calls him or herself a christian, for merciful acceptance of your weaknesses and natural propensity toward sin and encouragement to not sin. Go instead to a Priest – to someone who understands and knows normal attractions to the opposite sex – yet also is willing to sacrifice the natural desire to fulfill such inclination for mere pleasure – by also sacrificing the desire to father children biologically. Recognize and respect that the vows taken publicly are such as indicate a willing obedience to honestly performing the role of Christ every day. See in the Priest – a true brother willing to accept what you confide in confidence, and true Father willing to accept your true sorrow and remorse – always forgiving, and a true Holy Spirit inspiring for you as for all. Pope Benedict XVI said “If you follow the will of God, you know that in spite of all the terrible things that happen to you, you will never lose a final refuge. You know that the foundation of the world is love, so that even when no human being can or will help you, you may go on, trusting in the One who loves you.”

          • bhndr

            Ablemom-
            Thanks for the responses. I unfortunately HAVE been to a priest of the Catholic church, I was told that I was a vile creature and that there was NO room for me UNLESS I change to suit the church. Conditional love is NOT a Christian value and anyone that tries to say you are only welcome if you change yourself to fit their subjective demands is NOT Christian.
            As for my state of faith, I have ALREADY arrived at a place where I have solid and complete trust in God and I KNOW that it doesn’t matter what people, preachers or priests say, the ONLY thing that matters is how my relationship with God stands. I know for CERTAIN that God has cared and protected me throughout my life and that no matter what happens to me, I can always trust that God will accept and love me WITHOUT conditions or demands. (I know many churches argue against that last statement but organized faiths are FLAWED, man-made institutions — no better or more authoritative than anyone else.)
            This understanding took a long time for me to understand since I was brainwashed to think that I was not worthy of being loved and indeed the reason that God didn’t answer my prayers to AID me in the fight against homosexuality was because God doesn’t help the willful sinner. Hogwash of course, the reason is that there was no need to remove my6 homosexuality, I am as God intended for me to be. MAYBE it was meant so that I could in turn help other young homosexuals who have been devastated by religious abuse as I have been… who really knows, I just know that I have to accept and love myself for ALL of who I am and ALL of my character traits and flaws and that until I do, I cannot really love anyone else.

          • Ablemom

            bhndr – your problem seems to be that you assume Christ finished speaking to you and to everyone, with just the words of His recorded in His Gospel. Do you think Jesus wrote the entire New Testament, before He ascended to sit at the right hand of the Father – before the Acts of the Apostles? I am not judging whatever it is you “practice” I of course only see your behaviour in the words that you write – but anyone still alive, who is not yet a martyr in the service of Jesus’s sacraments, is certainly in no position to judge any of the Saints and Apostles.

          • bhndr

            Ablemom-
            I do not assume that Jesus/God required any help from mere men. To believe that the rest of the “New Testament” is required, you then have to believe that Jesus was either ignorant about his time management and was killed before his mission was complete, OR you believe that Jesus/God intentionally left things out that are required for salvation, OR that Jesus/God simply “forgot” and the New Testament is nothing but a huge divine OOOOPS.
            Personally Jesus is NOT senile, NOR did he leave anything our by intent or because his “time” ran out. But you go ahead and rely on the words of a man who wrote his personal opinions, often in direct opposition to the words of Jesus himself, that were then later collected and combined into the dogmas of the church. that of course didn’t happen until the mid 300’s AD and happened by a VOTE.
            NO Jesus did not write the rest of the “New Testament”, such was NOT required. Its REALLY rather simple. Jesus gave us the ENTIRETY of divine law in TWO commands, all the rest is mere opinion and commentary. As for Paul, he was merely looking to pad his own life and gain earthly praise and glory and he usurped his position to do just that.

          • Ablemom

            If you are sure Jesus was God and finished everything – and still does not require any help from mere men, then evidently you don’t realize the world is still a living active and changing creation of His, and how much help He asked of His mother, and all the other married women and men like myself and my husband who are consecrated to her. I don’t have to believe time can impose any limits on God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit whatsoever – in fact I can believe and know He is eternal – because I am not a fool.

        • Ablemom

          Don’t worry – I am way past being disappointed – I have felt disgusted with everyone in the USA who claims the majority of Americans are in favour of equal rights for gays couples as for heterosexual couples. Thankfully some elected Justices of the Peace, are willing to even suffer wrongful arrest temporarily – while refusing to issue such license, in some states, regardless of the opinion of a USSC ruling by a Judge who was not elected. We have the same sort of stupidity among those on the bench for the highest court in Canada. However, as a woman can file for Divorce in a Provincial or Territorial court, claiming rape within a marriage that imposes risk of death or disease to her – and those can also be deemed legal grounds for criminal sentencing, then frankly I can’t image any court ever hearing such charge from a gay man to appropriately assassinate the character of his “legally wedded and bedded partner”.

  • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

    “The evidence is irrefutable that behaviors common within the homosexual community are unhealthy and high risk for a host of serious medical consequences, including STD’s, HIV and AIDS, anal cancer, hepatitis, parasitic intestinal infections, and psychiatric disorders,” Church wrote on the portal on one occasion.

    So, this is to understand that syphilis, gonorrhea, genital herpes, bacterial vaginosis, anal cancer, hepatitis, parasitic intestinal infections, and psychiatric disorders in heterosexual couples is a good reason to stop treating heterosexuals as well?

    Religious bigotry has no place in the medial profession anymore than in commerce.

    • Ablemom

      If heterosexual, monogamous couples have those diseases, they evidently were not tested before they engaged in sex, and the medical advice they need is the same – to stop all sexual activity until they are both cured of disease.

      • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

        Of course they do. That was my point. The spread of such diseases has far more to do with personal hygiene, integrity, and caution than the act itself.

        • Ablemom

          “much more to do?” Of course integrity is desirable, but if someone does not know they are carrying an infectious disease, they really can’t have much integrity by claiming not to pose a risk – no matter how much hygiene and caution. Thank God the epidemiologists, urologists, and oncologists are more in control of the World Health Organization and most of civilized society than mere bloggers.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            Yes, that goes for heterosexuals as well as homosexuals.

            And what is your point about telling truth in religions and science? I couldn’t agree more, but I don’t understand your purpose in stating the argument. Seems we have a lot in common. But are you referring to any candidate in particular (I can name a few).

            And I thank science and true humanism for the WHO and all medical personnel who are in that field mainly to help others.

            But, your last point makes no logical sense on several levels. Hetrosexuals are not sometimes/often promiscuous? I recently read a study where it claimed that about 70% of men have extramarital relationships and if I recall correctly, it was around 30% for wives.

            So, taking the implied logic of your argument, it’s ok to elect cheating husbands, wives, and monogamous homosexuals? Would you rather an inept monogamous person be elected than a very capable but promiscuous person of either sexual preference?

            I assume that you do recall “Jeff Ganon” (Greg Davis), the male homosexual prostitute who was allowed into the White House for press conferences, but then spent many hours of unknown purpose there, often leaving after the conference and returning later to spend an hour or more? He had full access to the White House and could come and go as he wished (or was called) without questioning from the Secret Service.

            The time-stamped White House guest log of the period before Davis was discovered for what he was, indicate that he visited the White House on many occasions even when there were no briefings and spent an hour or two for unknown purposes.

            The big question that arises in my mind is; Why didn’t the mainstream media report this and how did he, under a false name and apparently false purpose, gain such freedom of movement in the White House? The only way of which I can think is that he was given that permission from a top White House authority and the SS was told to let him pass.

            Note, significantly, that liberals never raised a stink over it as the conservatives would have had it been in a Democratic White House.

            In any case, this raises another question pertinent to your last argument; Should a very able general and great strategist be relieved of his command and court martialed if he were found to be homosexual?

          • Ablemom

            No – I did not say “it’s OK” for heterosexuals to be promiscuous. Your argument rests on fallacy. In reality, it is never “ok” for anyone to be promiscuous. My point about telling religious Truth is that many people seem to place their faith in themselves, or their own version of mythological gods, for which there is no historical evidence to persuade any ever did really exist in the origin of the world – or they place their hope in merely humanist power like the political/economic/military persuasive influence of the sort you so aptly describe in your comments about illicit activities in the White House. Really – I did not know any of what you describe – I was born in Canada and have never applied for citizenship elsewhere – only since reading your comments have I looked at what Huffington Post reported in 2011 about no less than “10 gay sex scandals” inclusive of the names you just mentioned. The Truth I know and proclaim about God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, is confirmed historically by many Christian witnesses and historians – but also, significantly the Roman historian Tacitus, and the Jewish historian Josephus (both of whom were not professing Christians. The Truth I profess religiously is a matter of faith in what God has promised. Having faith in the only Triune God, and being willing to swear on that Holy Word, to testify as to my knowledge and belief about any events, is significantly different than placing faith or hope in scientific predictions based on probabilities from experimental research and merely human design. To state it very simply, the logic of my argument, does not need to be only linear reasoning. Not even the greatest and wisest scientists can fully predict the future of the entire world – likely not even close to accurate for the next decade. God alone, is in control of everything in His Holy will, to fulfill all His promises, of divine justice and mercy. Thus, for even someone like Einstein to have confirmed and affirmed a theory of relativity, is not as significant in a Court of Law, as swearing an oath on God’s Holy Word. I have seen very large map – in a museum in Europe, depicting with tiny lights – the effect on the population of Europe when the black plague swept through. By the flick of light switches the map illustrates population change over decades and centuries – the “dark ages”, “middle ages”, age of “enlightenment” and 20th century. It shows no other event in history than plague has had as great effect to drastically reduce human life suddenly. For anyone aware of such historical events it also suggests both Catholic faith and scientific reason motivated the development of democracy, with renewed interest in personal and social hygiene alongside scientific discoveries about the causes and needs for controls on the spread of infectious disease. The perspective I have is thus that countries that could maintain DNA banks for forensic purposes could help solve a lot of problems around crime, fraud, and illegal human trafficking – and better maintain laws in regard to who has right to even propose sexual activity as a right of marriage – and who does not, nor even right to consent to such activity without contravening lawful agreements. So thank you for sharing.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            I was using your argument to make a point. I didn’t say that you said that, but you attacking only</i? homosexuals implied that heterosexuals might be ok. which is why I asked the QUESTION.

            Note that the sentence you attack as a fallacious argument was ended with a QUESTION MARK. Thus, it was a question and not an argument and therefore cannot be fallacious. Only statements can be fallacious.

            "mythological gods?" Do you not know that other religions say the same about Christianity, and they can point to their scriptures to prove it? Please use logic here and tell me what makes your beliefs any more valid than theirs? Just because you believe what you were most likely taught to believe? Where is the extant and objective historical record that proves Jesus (a miracle worker) existed, much less that he was a god? Was it not of interest to you that NOTHING was written of such a person during his purported lifetime?

            "Humanist values of power in political/economic/military persuasive influence?" Really? That is how I described humanism? Please point out that comment.

            Humanism takes a great deal of empathy for others and a desire for a just society, which seems to be very lacking in many (most?) Christians who are fighting to remove health care for millions of Americans and to do away with the social safety net, while at the same time fighting to keep millions in poverty in order to maintain that steady flow of wealth from the working poor to the already wealthy.

            Your concerted attack on homosexuals but not hetrosexuals is proof enough of your deficient bias. Your reference to homosexual affairs in 2011 was a targeted attack to the exclusion of heterosexual affairs.

            Note that ABC News has an article titled "Year in Review 2011: Top Political Scandals of the Year." There, you can find 7 hetrosexual affairs (one involving children and an 18 year old female).

            Look, I know that you are simply voicing your religious beliefs. But this is a secular nation under a secular Constitution. So long as you don't ask the government to legislate your religious beliefs, then that is fine.

            And, I'm quite sure far more affairs on both sides of the fence are still going on. The point is that your attack on homosexuals for their homosexuality is just your religious belief talking. I have checked objective sites and agree that homosexually transmitted disease is greater than heterosexually transmitted. But the point is that we must treat everyone and teach them how to avoid disease, not condemn them for their sexual orintation.

            "God alone, is in control."

            Interesting. And your proof is in the Bible? Why do you believe the Bible? There, by the way, are many other questions on that statement, not the least of which is a lack of evidence.

    • Ablemom

      If Atheism actually helped by even attempting to provide for all the rights and needs of every orphan and widow, it could be deemed a “religion” – but in that way it evidently fails. It assumes the non-existence of any god, so it isn’t essentially different than any other ideology – totalitarianism, communism, fascism, or racism in practice. Medical Doctors are fully within their rights to be as religious or non-religious as each wants – but they are NOT within their rights to impose their religious beliefs as practices upon patients without accurately informing the patient and gaining the patient’s fully informed consent. Even worse for a Hospital Board to impose it’s atheism upon patients, then depriving them of a urologist they could trust. That is really religious bigotry of the worst kind.

      • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

        It assumes the non-existence of any god, so it isn’t essentially different than any other ideology – totalitarianism, communism, fascism, or racism in practice.

        I am quite sure that you will not understand this, but the atheist is a person who places great value in objective evidence and education, whether in science, theology, or social philosophy. Totalitarianism, de facto communism (there has never been a true communist state), fascism (most aligned with the far political right), or racism (most aligned with the far political/religious right), have nothing to do with religion or the lack thereof. They have to do with a lack of empathy and knowledge.

        And of course medial doctors may believe anything they wish and express their opinions in any non professional setting. As far as I am concerned, they may belive in Islam as well, so long as they preform their duties as doctors and reject no one from their services, no matter what the belief or sexual orientation of the patient.

        That you suggest any hospital is imposing atheism on by forbidding a doctor to preach his religious beliefs to a patient, is absurd. As I said, both the doctor and the patient have every right to believe anything they want. But the doctor is a MEDICAL professional, not a preacher. Besides, to forbid a doctor from preaching to a patient is NOT imposing atheism. It is simply not allowing a doctor from imposing his own beliefs on a patient.

        Would you think that a Muslim Doctor (and we do have them in the U.S.) has the right to preach his religion to patients?

        • Ablemom

          What you think about doctors and hospitals as to what they teach and preach is your opinion – your contention seems to be that doctors do not practice according to their religious beliefs, or according to their atheism – is more absurd than my contention that they can and certainly do. Perhaps you could benefit by learning a bit more from your Presidential candidate Ben Carson. I am well enough informed by the Canadian MD’s, psychiatrists, and nurses, I consult with, that I do not need to accept your criticism that my knowledge of what some MD’s can and do preach is absurd.

          • http://thebenevolentthou.com/ Max T. Furr, author

            Obviously you seem to know very little about medical ethics and professionalism. That a doctor is bound to treat all who need treatment is not questionable.

            From the Medical Ethics Manual, chapter two:

            The physician-patient relationship is the cornerstone of medical practice and therefore of medical ethics. As noted above, the
            Declaration of Geneva requires of the physician that “The health
            of my patient will be my first consideration,” and the International
            Code of Medical Ethics states, “A physician shall owe his/her
            patients complete loyalty and all the scientific resources available to
            him/her.”

            Now, where in this quote do you find that a doctor’s first priority is to preach his religion or practice it on the patient?

  • Ablemom

    For any of you interested in some evidence I have provided for my opinions that “Discus” has not yet permitted my comments to include from hyperlinks I have attempted to post – search on “google” for NIV translation of Matthew 25, and for Canadian Blood Services webpages, and Public Health Agency of Canada.

  • Ablemom

    It is entirely apparent by the replies Discus is forwarding to me, to my comments from persons here who are acknowledging openly their own homosexual attractions, and their desire to not give up their homosexually active relationships, that they currently have no desire to become confessed members of the Roman Catholic Church. One advises me that he has already approached a Priest and takes it as an personal offence, that the Priest agreed his sexual behaviour confessed is vile, and did properly advise that God does not help the willful sinner. He then goes on attempting to insult the noble and kindly Priest’s advice to him as ‘hogwash’. Why then, I wonder did he bother confessing his animal-like behaviour to a Priest? If one does not want to be regarded as a mere animal – don’t act like one. Another attacks me presuming I know little about Professional medical ethics and scientific resources he presumed must be made available – (with whose money?) Obviously any medical doctor can not be expected to make all the scientific resources available to everyone. If they could, there would be no need for more medical clinics in Burkina Faso, where Christian missionaries have been shot or other foreign countries where equally ethical and humanitarian “Doctors without borders” have also been murdered alongside Christian pastors and Priests. All the Roman Catholics I know, inclusive of Priests and myself, confess our sins of thought, word and deed, to be vile faults of our own, whether done knowingly or while knowing they are willful sin. All sin is equally vile and offensive to God and thus must be confessed at every mass we may be abled to celebrate together. We confess and pray together that God forgive us, and enable us to forgive likewise. We attend to personal confession of those sins we recognize and want to confess in private. So, if you don’t want to become a Roman Catholic don’t. Stay beyond God’s help to understand His Holy law, and to obtain His merciful body and blood, to forgive anyone including yourself – if that is your wish. But please stop doing me the offence of expecting me to accept you and be continuously compassionate and merciful – while you persist in demanding I forgive you without your even committing to change your behaviour. While such resolve to continue giving offence is advised publicly I am trying daily to become more Christlike, showing compassionately ways some such offenders could change their thoughts, word-usage and behaviour, to at least not offend me. My time is valuable also – I have suffer with those horribly murdered and persecuted alongside many other Catholics and other-denomination Christian missionaries. I am now going to attempt to change my Discus notification settings so I am no longer bothered by so many offensive demands for “compassion” toward self-admitted homosexuals who have jumped into this Christian news net with evident interest in primarily insulting Roman Catholic Priests. That way, hopefully God will enable me to spend more time helping at least one Catholic who is respectful of me enough to pay me enough income to survive on.