Norway Officials Place Children Seized From Parents Over ‘Christian Indoctrination’ Up for Adoption

bodnariu-compressedOfficials in Norway have moved to place five children that were seized from their parents on charges that included “Christian radicalization and indoctrination” up for adoption, reports state.

As previously reported, on Nov. 16 and 17, Norway’s child welfare services, the Barnevernet, seized Marius and Ruth Bodnariu’s two daughters, two sons and their baby, Ezekiel. The two eldest children were reportedly removed from school without their parents knowledge, and then Barnevarnet representatives arrived with police at the Bodnariu home, where welfare services seized the remaining children, minus the baby.

The organization returned the following day and removed the infant as well after the family tried to resolve the matter after being arrested.

On Nov. 18, the Barnevernet told Ruth Bodnariu that the children had been split up with three separate families.

Marius Bodnariu’s brother, Daniel, who is a pastor, explained in a recent statement that the matter began when the children’s principal contacted welfare services after expressing concerns over how they were being raised, including in regard to the family’s Christian beliefs.

“The process of confiscating the Bodnariu children started when the Vevring School principal, the middle school attended by Eliana and Naomi, called the Barnevernet and expressed her concerns regarding the girls’ religious upbringing, her understanding that the girls are being disciplined at home, and that she considers the parents and grandmother to be radical Christians; an overriding concern that the principal’s perception of the parents’ and grandmother’s religious beliefs inhibit and handicap the girls’ development,” he outlined.

“In the same call to the Barnevernet, the principal stressed that she was only requesting the Barnevernet’s counseling services, as the girls are intelligent and creative, and that she, the principal, doesn’t believe that the girls are being physically abused at home,” Bodnariu said. “This same principal had previously scolded and categorically forbid one of the Bodnariu girls from singing as a result of the girl singing a Christian song to her schoolmates.”

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But despite the principal’s request for counseling only, the Barnevernet instead pursued proceedings against the parents, alleging that they had abused the children.

“The Barnevernet ordered extensive medical examination of the children, as there was no evidence to support the allegations of physical abuse, but the medical reports emphasized that there was no sign of physical or mental abuse,” Bodnariu states.

He says that Norwegian officials claim that the children told them that they were abused, but the family rejects the notion.

The situation has sparked protests in the country and beyond, including on Dec. 21, when over 300 people protested at the Embassy of Norway in Bucharest, Romania. Supporters of the family held signs and banners such as “Norway, return the children to the Bodnariu family” and “Norway, give us back the children you stole.” On Dec. 26, over 400 protesters gathered in Madrid, Spain in support of the Bodnariu family, and other events are planned in the UK, Poland and Belgium.

In the meantime, the Romania Insider reports that Norwegian authorities have opened the adoption process for the children, which some believe is unlawful.

“Barnevernet is going ahead with the process of adoption because they say that such a long time has passed and now it is going to be traumatic for the children to be returned to their parents,” Cristian Ionescu, pastor of Elim Romanian Pentecostal Church in Chicago, told the Christian Post.

A gathering in support of the Bodnariu family has been scheduled for Jan. 8 at the Norwegian Embassy in Washington, D.C.


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  • Oboehner

    “child welfare services” There’s one, just like communist East Germany being the “Democratic Republic”.

  • gyoung55

    So will the government start removing children from their radicalized Muslim parents? Of course not.

    • Angel Jabbins

      Excellent point!

    • Carol Smith

      Thanks for that ya I agree with you?

    • pgg804

      I have a better question. Will the government start removing Jews from radicalized Jewish parents? It is the Jews that have enormous power in media, finance, politics and gov’t,not Muslims and it is the Jews that have largely destroyed Christianity.

      Vice President Biden, speaking on May 21, 2013 said:

      “Jewish heritage has shaped who we are – all of us – as much or more than any other factor in the last 223 years. And that’s a fact”

      “Think – behind of all that, I bet you 85 percent of those [social-political] changes, whether it’s in Hollywood or social media, are a consequence of Jewish leaders in the industry. The influence is immense, the influence is immense. And, I might add, it is all to the good”

      “It was [such television shows as] ‘Will and Grace,’ it was the social media. Literally. That’s what changed peoples’ attitudes. That’s why I was so certain that the vast majority of people would embrace, and rapidly embrace” same-sex marriage.

      That same influence removed prayer from schools, forbade certain Christmas displays, which used t be popular all across the land, replaced the expression “Merry Christmas” with “Happy Holidays”, removed Christmas TV specials which took up a big part of the TV schedule thru the 1960’s and have made Christians a hated group among a large portion of the US population.

      Their biggest victory was when Johannes Oesterreicher, a Jew who converted to Christianity, became a priest and became a power in the church. He led the Vatican II changes in the early 1960’s which transformed the church, including changing the church’s view on who killed Jesus. After almost 2,000 years the church now put the blame for Jesus’ death on Pontius Pilate and removed it from Jews, despite what the bible clearly says.

      • lizk

        We are told that the devil is like a roaring lion. He is going about deceiving the world and even the very elect is he can. There are only going to be 2 groups of people those that love God and those who hate God and Jesus..

        • Ganesh

          American Evangelicals really, really need to wake up. They have been deluded by Satan en masse, and are now en thrall of Satan, not Jesus Christ. Read John 8:44. Read Rev 2:9/3:9. Our Lord warned us about this very time. Any Christians who ignore this warning, and continue to venerate this satanic group, the group who runs Israel, forfeits their salvation. You cannot serve two masters.

          • lizk

            I know there are evangelists that do not warn the people of the impending judgement and the 2nd coming of Jesus.but He said that He will sent Elijah (he called John the Baptist Elijah) to make straight the way. He was warning people to repent of their sins and the same warning is be said again. Look at the 3 angels messages. 1 having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth–to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people–Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water (goes back to Genesis) 2.another angel followed saying “Babylon (this is spiritual) is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her (this is a church) fornication”. 3.a 3rd angel followed them saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. Rev 14: 6-10 Hear is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.Rev 14:12 Should read Daniel and Revelation it describes the 1st beast accurately even the colors of the 1st beast and you should know who the 2nd beast is. I agree with you that you can only serve 1 master. This is all about worship. All power will be given to 1 beast for 1 hr. It’s a good study. I find when you want to know the truth when you hear it you will know. Salvation is of the Jew 1st.

          • Ganesh

            Thank you. That was informative.

            I don’t understand why Christians think that Jews…who reject the Messiah..are somehow saved, by Gen. 12:3? it makes no sense. The Jews are waiting for their Messiah, and trying to accelerate his coming…but he came 2000 years ago…

          • lizk

            the Jews are saved the same way, if they believe in Jesus. The message is being preached to them. Their priests, and sages do not let the Jews read Isaiah 53 but there are people that are telling the Jews about Isaiah 53 and many are coming to Jesus and if they believe that Jesus is their messiah and died for their sins they will be saved. Everybody who believe in Jesus and accept His sacrifice for himself is saved. Just like the thief on the cross, Jesus gave Him the assurance.

          • Ganesh

            Yes. There is no question about this. Every Jew who accepts Jesus is saved.

            But, then…every Jew who practices Judaism…every Jew who continues with the Talmud…and the many, many atheist Jews…I don’t understand why Christians see them as somehow different from any other un-saved people in the world.

          • lizk

            those who study will find out that the ceremonial laws were done away with they were written in a book but God’s law is eternal, He kept His Fathers law and we on our own power cannot but He said He will put His Spirit in us to cause us to walk the walk not by our power but by His.We are all saved by grace through Faith. We cannot serve God without faith.

          • lizk

            if they practice offering of lambs etc then they don’t believe that Jesus blood is enough for them. I’m glad the it is Jesus that knows the heart, I’m sure God will give them the truth as there are people there that is preaching the gospel and many of them are getting to know Jesus. They are being told about Isaiah 53 and Daniel, about the prophecies.

          • Yorkie Tank

            They ARE no different from any other un-saved people in the world. God chose the Jewish people; however, it is up to each and every individual to choose God. Jews are under the Law and will give an account on judgment day. Christians are saved by Grace and the blood of Jesus Christ (Rom 8:1). Being that God is perfect beyond any imagination of what true perfection entails, I’m thankful I live on this side of the Cross. Willful ignorance shall serve no man/woman’s purpose on the day of judgment for God has written the truth on the hearts and minds of all. Whether it’s pride, arrogance, unwillingness to accept, or any other underlying cause; those who have transgressed God’s law (every single living person) and are not “pardoned” by the Son because they have CHOSEN not to have a relationship with Christ will perish (Rev 21:8).

          • lizk

            the law is there to know what sin is, it cannot save you. God wants all people to repent and turn from their sins. Sin is transgressing God’s law. They rejected the message and after they stoned Stephen their hose was left desolate. It was spread to the gentiles, there are many Jews that believe in their Messiah and they are saved by Faith, just like Moses, Noah etc they believed and did what God had asked them to do.

          • reve888

            Because God made a covenant with them to curse those that curse them and bless those that bless them, and God doesn’t fail on his promises. In the Old Testament, when God punished the Jewish people, and allowed other kingdoms to conquer them, God then punished the kingdoms that treated the Jews badly, even though he was using those kingdoms to punish the Jews for disobedience. I think, based the New Testament, that Israel will be the glory of God in the New Heaven and New Earth. “And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. ….I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.” Revelation 21:10-12, 22-24 Even though the Bible makes it clear that God purifies Israel like one purifies silver (the same way he purifies gentiles whom he has adopted) and gets rid of the impurities, there will still be a pure remnant. Zechariah 13:8 “”It will come about in all the land,” Declares the LORD, “That two parts in it will be cut off and perish; But the third will be left in it. 9″And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are My people,’ And they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.'” So, even though many of Israel are not in God’s will currently, God will still working a miracle with them, and Christians not only look forward to that occurring, but we also consider God’s promises of blessing those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel as true and active. Now, that certainly does not mean that we would side with Israel if they were doing something that was against God, but we also wouldn’t want to be the people that were persecuting them.

          • Ganesh

            > bless those that bless them

            Two great nations did the most to ‘bless’ the creation of the state of Israel. Britain, and America.

            Since 1947, have these two nations been ‘blessed?’ The British Empire immediately fell apart after their act of blessing Israel. Britain is today deep in a morass of nihilism, atheism, alcoholism, Islamisation, homosexuality, and despair; their national culture has been decimated. It was telling that the new head of the LibDems is a professed Christian, and the press took great issue with this.

            America is nearly as bad. Everyone loved the USA in 1945, in the decades and wars since its reputation has been badly tarnished, and more and more young people live lives of degeneracy, sloth, and hedonism.

            Is this what you consider ‘blessing?’

            In what ways have the UK and USA been ‘blessed’ for shepherding in the creation of Israel?

            So, does God lie?

            No. Every word is accurate. There is only one conclusion to draw from this: while there are good and observant Jews in Israel, the crew who runs the country, and has so much influence around the world, are the ones who ‘Say they are the Jews by are not the Jews, they are the Synagogue of Satan.’ Many of them are atheists or Freemasons. Observe how morally destructive their hollywood, the recording industry, and promotion of homosexuality, for instance, have been.

            There is no other interpretation that makes sense to me.

          • reve888

            I don’t think that Christians think that all Jews are saved. They just realize that God made a covenant with the Jews and promised to bless those that bless them and curse those that curse them. God will save a remnant of the Jews, and the Jews are not only the line through whom Christ came, but the line through whom God will finally establish his kingdom, with the Jewish remnant and the Gentile remnant who accept Christ. God doesn’t call the new heaven and new earth New Jerusalem because he wants to forget the Jews. God’s work is mysterious, intricate and marvelous.

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            True, but why do u have a demon and name GANESH???

          • Pray Hard

            Ganesh is a Hindu deity. Worry about something important.

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            Hinduism is demonic. Their “deities” are demons/fallen angels. #SpiritualWarfare is very important. smh

          • Dan Kellam

            You couldn’t be more wrong. It’s pretty clear who you support.

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            Howard Pittman died and was shown the demonic hierarchy which Hinduism mirrors on earth. Pittman revived and told the world.

          • Dan Kellam

            I’m sure you believe that. Consider the book of Isaiah , where the flesh returns to the Israelites. The vision is badly interpreted , and speaks of reincarnation. Sure some of the Hindu deities are weird, but Christians perform ritual cannabalism, ie the body of Christ , the blood of Christ . How about you try judge not, lest ye be judged eh? Like it or not you, and just about everybody else are going to reincarnate. Hindus will come back as Hindus and Christians will comeback as Christians. (Mostly) Devils exist wherever people persecute others, and in my opinion one has taken root in you. Kindly get rid of it. It’s annoying.

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            YOU and your defense of Hell is annoying. May you go there soon.

          • Dan Kellam

            Hell is created by the ignorant who wish to inflict their suffering upon others. Perhaps this one will suit your taste… Judge not, lest ye be judged.

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            perhaps u will repent & quote Bible verses in context…but we won’t hold our breath

          • Dan Kellam

            Here’s another, you will know my followers by the love they show to others. (That one is certainly out of context but perhaps you will get the spirit of the message)

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            No pearls for you.

          • Dan Kellam

            I don’t like pearls, they come from suffering. Pearls of wisdom thrown before swine. The irony.

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            The wrath of God abides upon you & all who enable you.

          • Dan Kellam

            god will judge us both on our merit. ask God when you get a chance who was correct. Here’s a hint, it’s not the person proclaiming vengeance upon someone who was preaching tolerance.

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            Here’s a hint – read the Holy Bible and stop making up your own faith.

          • Dan Kellam

            It’s pretty clear you are the one doing that. Intolerance towards Muslims is racism , which is is contrary to Jesus’s teachings. Do yourself a favour and read it again.

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            Sez u. Now, GO TO HELL ANTICHRIST FILTH.

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            Don’t quote the Bible you hate. Fool.

          • lizk

            There is only one God, who created all things and sent His only Son, who laid down His life for us that we may have life. His is our only salvation, redeemer, our Rock and our Shield. There is no one else! God said believe My Son. Jn 3:16 God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not parish but have everlasting life.. vs 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. vs 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but to him who does not believe is condemned already.because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. vs 19 An this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. vs 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. vs 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.
            Jesus died for our sins He paid the death penalty for us if we believe and accept His sacrifice. But we are to repent and turn from our sins and He will give us the power if we believe.

          • reve888

            What is Satanic about the group who runs Israel?

        • Meg

          Don’t forget the third group – those that know that stuff is a fairy tale.

          • lizk

            It is not a fairy tale. God’s prophecies are true and it is close to being fulfilled and Jesus is coming soon.

          • reve888

            No one has forgotten them. They are also written about in the scriptures.

        • Disneytourist

          Exactly, and he will go after our children because Jesus loves them so. Here in America, we need to protect our children.

        • reve888

          And liberals hate God, or they want him to be contained to a nice fairy tale.

      • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

        Most of your reply is excellent except for thinking that the Vatican is a Christian “church”. It has always been against the Scriptures & even banned & killed translators of the Holy Bible. #WilliamTyndale martyred by them. Filth. Antichrist filth.

        • pgg804

          Sorry, but you’re wrong. Before the Protestant Reformation kicked off by Martin Luther (a catholic) in the sixteenth century there was only the Catholic Church (also the orthodox churches – Russian, Greek). All the protestant denominations were derived from the Catholic Church after the reformation.
          You don’t decide who is a Christian and who isn’t. The Catholic Church was how Christianity started.

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            YOU r wrong as is your CULT OF MURDER. Worshiping the sun, Dagon, BAAL’s penis.

            Your cult murdered the translator of the Holy Bible William Tyndale. Your cult is antiChrist.

            Foxe’s Book of Martyrs exposes your cult.

          • pgg804

            I’m not Catholic stupid. Regardless, you’re a moron that doesn’t know the first thing about the religion you claim to belong to. You are a complete and total idiot. You need to study European history.

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            YOU need to read Foxe’s Book of Martyrs.

          • Yorkie Tank

            The Catholic Church protected the Doctrine from which Christianity was allowed to flourish; however, Christianity was started by the 12 Apostles, not the Catholic Church. For anyone who wants to the TRUTH about Christianity and the Catholic Church, look up The Fuel Project (Know your Enemy) on Youtube. Parts 23, 24, and 25 will tell you all you need to know about Catholicism. Don’t be deceived.

          • lizk

            the Catholic church has statutes they worship and they worship Mary above Jesus. It is only Jesus who sames and can only forgive sins not man. The Bible is our standard, not mans rule.Jesus is the head of the church not a man. But she has fallen away.

          • Frannie E Tate-Garcia

            The Christianity was started by Jesus and his apostles ~ not the Catholic church!

          • pgg804

            Excellent. Did I say something different?

          • Frannie E Tate-Garcia

            You said that “The Catholic Church was how Christianity started.”

          • pgg804

            “Chalcedonian Christianity divided into the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church in the Great Schism of 1054. The Protestant Reformation which began in the 1500s created new Christian communities that separated from the Roman Catholic Church and have evolved into many different denominations.” From 1054 until the 1500’s the overwhelming majority of Europeans and Christians worldwide belonged to the Catholic Church which was enforced by law in Europe. In the 1500’s the protestant church and all its denominations broke off from the Catholic Church. Until then people got their instruction on Christianity from the Catholic Church.

          • Frannie E Tate-Garcia

            All of that may be historical fact, but it is in no way the beginning of Christianity. Jesus and his 12 apostles started Christianity. Nothing subsequent to that can be credited with Christianity’s beginning.

          • pgg804

            Yes, you’re right, but it was thru the Catholic Church and Catholic theologians that people got their instruction on what Christian beliefs were. If you noticed, my response was to the person that commented “Most of your reply is excellent except for thinking that the Vatican is a Christian “church”. This person has no knowledge whatsoever about Christianity, how its started or how it developed. For better or worse, for a large part of the last 2,000 years, until the Protestant Reformation occurred the Catholic Church told people what believe and if you didn’t abide by what they said you could end up begging for mercy like Galileo or find yourself out of a job like Kepler.

          • Frannie E Tate-Garcia

            I’ll concede that the Catholic Church has played a large part in the history of the Christian Church. Good conversation ~ thank you!!!

          • Frannie E Tate-Garcia

            Christianity was started by Jesus and his apostles ~ not the Catholic church!

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            Read Foxe’s Book of Martyrs: JESUS started the church as Messiah/Christ. Read the Holy Bible too. Of course. Vatican hates the Holy Scriptures which is why they murdered William Tyndale for translating and printing the Holy Bible. They also burned thousands of copies of the Holy Bible, they hate it that much.

        • Becki

          The Catholic Church compiled the bible….long before any protestant faith existed.

          • Vic Zoe Warren

            I don’t believe that “The Catholic Church compiled the bible…” is a sufficient argument to sustain the RCC as not anathema, or heretical. Even if the statement were 100% true and the current perversion of the Christian church that is the RCC is the same expression of faith practiced by the Christians of the first 400 years it is very much likened to the Jews compiling the OT Bible, but being, themselves, in opposition to the will of God.

          • Becki

            I was responding to VINDICATOR’s claim that the Catholic Church has always been against scriptures. I’m not an apologist, but you sound like you have a lot of questions so I urge you to visit EWTN with an extensive set of answers to questions like yours. And that’s just the beginning. Of course, like anything, we can always find the answers we are looking for if we look in the right place, so you will likely seek your answers from sources that are anti catholic and I will look for answers that support my faith. At the end of the day, my heart and soul follow Christ and my Catholic faith has never led me from Him, but always closer to Him.

          • Vic Zoe Warren

            My parents attend the Catholic Church. I can look at Wikipedia and read catechisms online apart from EWTN. I have a friend who is a franciscan monk. I don’t have many more questions, but you should. Like praying to Mary to help your prayers get to God. There is not any record of any saint in the first 300-400 years of church history doing such a thing, or encouraging anyone to do that, or ask anyone, supposedly in Heaven, apart from Jesus, to bear fruit in our prayers to the Father. The Roman Catholic Church has a pretty steady stream of Alexandrian ideology that has been majoring in metaphysical mumbo jumbo and doctrinal commentary contrary to the life and practice of the first century church. There has been great error at the core of the RCC from the beginning and as a consequence there are tyrannical bulls that claim great heresy such as, “We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic ROMAN Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge; we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord… We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the ROMAN PONTIFF.”

            These are great error and you should question them against the practice and revelation of the first 400 years of disciples who walked in great power and gave their lives to ensure that you would have the truth and not live under the tyranny of deception that ensnares men’s souls as merchandise… baptizing babies not for repentance, but citizenship.

          • Becki

            Mary is another disciple. The first of them really. She continues her work in bringing lovers of Christ to the one true faith and especially to her son. That is her eternal duty. The rosary’s mysteries are a focus on the life of Christ. I used to be an atheist, and my questions are answered. I pray that Mary wraps her arms around your soul and you are shaken of this bitterness. As much as I love Mary, remember, Jesus loves her more. As far as talking about the Roman road, please read John to find out why we also need our works and why the Eucharist is so vital. If your discussions with your monk friend lead you from the church, then I tremble for his soul.

          • Vic Zoe Warren

            Who told you that? Mary’s eternal duties? There is no guarantee that Mary even remained a disciple. There is no Biblical record of Mary’s assent into Heaven, or any of that non Christian, non Scriptural stuff. That is why we contend that the RCC is contrary to Scripture and the will of God. They have made up religious traditions and metaphysical nonsense that Jesus, the early church apostles, and disciples did not practice, nor preach. Mary could have fallen away- we do not and cannot know. Unless we were to assent to the RCC’s exaltation of the opinions of men that are not canonized as Bible as Biblical revelation. Mary cannot wrap her arms around anyone. Mary cannot answer our prayers. Mary may not even be in Heaven. Jesus is the only mediator between God and man who has given us the abiding Holy Spirit. We have God in and with us at all times we don’t even need to ask Jesus, “Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete… In that day you will ask in my name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.” – John 16:23-24, 26-27

            No leader of the early church encouraged any believer to pray to mary to help us talk to Jesus, or the Father.

          • Deo Credo

            Vic. You are making long posts but they aren’t factual, or particularly cogent. You claim that the church isn’t scriptural since it, in your opinion, “adds” things. Since you are liberally sprinkling your posts with scripture, how about some John. ” there are also many other things that Jesus did but if these were to be described individually I do not think the whole world was contain the books that would be written ” that is if course one of two references to teachings other than strictly what was written just in that gospel. Jesus said “go forth.. teaching these and all the things I have taught…” lots of other references as well. You are also taking scripture out of context. It is hard typing a bunch on a tiny phone but I think you should take the previous suggestion and read more in depth. Having family that is catholic and a friend that is a monk doesn’t mean one understands the faith. God bless you

          • Vic Zoe Warren

            Twisting the clear teaching of Scripture to fit your bent is not sound hermeneutics. Things “Jesus did” that weren’t written in books is far different than the “assumption” about the eternal state of Mary. The life and practice of men who died for me to have the Gospel far outweighs the testimony of Alexandrian theologians who influenced Roman Catholic thought.

            “Go forth and teach” what? Metaphysical mumbo jumbo and nonsense? No. Jesus commanded us to teach disciples how to do what He commanded the first century disciples to do. Commanded is past tense. The RCC has done much to damage the revelation of the Gospel with their traditions and tyranny. The RCC is and has been anathema for a long time and is unwilling to repent.

          • Deo Credo

            I completely agree with your first sentence. So all bombast aside…what salient point did you just make? Did you refute something I said, cause I don’t see it. You are obviously very bothered by Mary. A woman that Jesus said “.. .behold I give you your mother.” A woman that an angel said is “full of grace” how about this, it seems as though you claim to follow Jesus. JESUS gave the powers to “bind” and “loose” to the church. What you bind on earth is bound in heaven. So bluntly I would say that if the church issues an official decree, that someone is in heaven, such as a saint, or Mary I think that is where they are since I don’t believe Jesus is a lier

          • Vic Zoe Warren

            If you agree with my first sentence then you should cease to practice it. It is deceptive, you probably do it with things other than Scripture, and it probably makes you a terror to folks you talk to and leaves them feeling misunderstood.

            Bind and loose lies and imaginations? As well, in Matthew 18 Jesus was speaking on matters of judgement in the case of offenses, not extra biblical, metaphysical garbage about Mary, the pope, praying to saints for help getting our prayers answered, or any of the other traditions that make RCC proponents powerless.

            Jesus also said of Mary, “Who is my mother… those who hear the word of God and keep it.” Jesus wasn’t exalting Mary to the realm of “Mother of God,” or “mediatrix,” or “mother of all believers.” Mary wasn’t perpetually a virgin, or any of the nonsense that is defended by folks who assert themselves to the position of “Holy See.” Jesus never had one of those either. Paul rebuked Peter and he repented, but the heirs of the error of the RCC refuse to do likewise. Jesus never lied. The Fathers of the RCC have bound themselves to their lies and refuse to repent.

          • lizk

            I agree. It amazes me that the Catholic people cannot see this. When I heard the description of the little horn even before they said who it was, I knew and I was raised a Catholic and attended catholic schools. Even then it amazed me that the catholic kids sure could swear worse than the protestant school. I suppose you have to want to know the truth. It was when I was 27 when I needed to know God and I received my 1st Bible as we were raised to read the catechism that raised some questions in me. Also the teaching of limbo, purgatory, and about death and confession to a priest who was just a man. I even asked God why we had to do 10 hail Marys compared to one Our Father. I asked God if He even hears. I never believed in praying to saints. It’s amazing He got my attention when I was pregnant with my 1st child that He got my attention. I thank God for where I am now from where I was.

          • lizk

            Jesus said that death is sleep that is what He said of Lazarus, when He raised Lazarus, he didn’t say anything about heaven and even his sister knew it was at the end of the age that he would be raised. Jesus said I am the resurrection and He raised Him. Yes there are some in heaven Enoch, Elijah, Moses. Mary was still alive and when she died she is sleeping in her grave just like David.

          • lizk

            Mary cannot save! Only Jesus because He died on the cross not Mary, she is asleep and waits till Jesus comes, she cannot hear anything The rosary pagan’s also use.

          • lizk

            the Eucharist is the sun god and you cannot transform it into the body and blook of Christ for He died for all once and for all and yet the church keeps crucifying over and over, which is a abomination to God.

          • lizk

            not man or church can save on Jesus can save you cannot go to the Father without going to Jesus 1st. Only Jesus can save and forgive sins not man.In Revelation it says get out of her my people lest you partake of her sins. Read the description of the little horn. Even now she admits a lot of things.

          • Vic Zoe Warren

            As a matter of fact, there is no guarantee that Mary is in fact in Heaven. My friend, the franciscan monk, attests to that truth. The Scriptures clearly tell us not to say who is in Heaven, or hell, because we do not know and that is not the word of faith that we are to preach.

            “But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.” – Romans 10:6-10

            I propose to you that you have more questions.

          • lizk

            The Catholic church claims to be above the Bible. and also infallible only God is infallible but man is mortal and fallible the bible should be your standard.

          • Yorkie Tank

            Catechism, praying to “Mother Mary, deifying the Saints, etc. Why did Jesus nor the Desciples (who lived well over 400 years prior to the Catholic Church) never speak of the need for any of these? Further, why did they find it necessary to REBUKE such practices? Is it perhaps because the Catholic Church is all about what best serves the entity of the Catholic Church rather than the “followers” whom Christ came to Earth in order to serve, guide, protect, and redeem?

          • Becki

            Catechism-We use our catechism to see how the bible can apply to specific situations. It is merely a quick reference tool. The Church also uses oral traditions to help fill in what wasn’t written.

            Mary– sigh. I’m not sure what faith you are, if any. First, we don’t worship Mary, but of course you said “pray to”. Well when we pray to Mary, we are asking her to intercede on our behalf. If you are protestant and a loved one dies, you might say “Grandma is in a better place, she’s looking down on us from heaven.” You then might say “let’s say a little prayer asking grandma to watch over us now. ” Of course, you don’t KNOW that grandma is in heaven, but if she is, you still talk to her and ask for her help. Mary is in heaven, as are all the saints. That’s what it means to be a saint. The saints are those that we believe to actually be in heaven. Those that we’ve had a sizable amount of proof and investigation to indicate their presence in heaven. We ask Mary and the saints to pray for us in specific instances and we always ask that what v we desire is in accordance with the will of God. So, none of the true Catholics believe that a saint is a deity. As far as asking why Jesus didn’t speak of these things, well there are many references in the bible that support asking saints for their intercession. Revelations speaks of saints and their intercession. I can do a search and find these references, or you can also, if you are serious about wanting to know.

          • lizk

            I was raised Catholic and the Catechism just made me question more why the church was doing things that are not in the Bible. I never had a bible till I asked a Catholic priest and started to read a bible for the 1st time and I noticed what they were not teaching.

          • Deo Credo

            Hmm, how are you figuring Christ and the disciples lived well over 400 years prior to the catholic church? The term “catholic” was used to refer to the church well before 400 AD. Try reading the history in its original form rather than what I must assume is a terribly biased translation. A few more points you might find germane. In revelation, or apocalypse, depending on how you refer to it, the prayers of the holy ones are being offered to the lamb. No matter how you want to spin that, it sure sounds like intercessory prayer, which the church had taught from the beginning. As to the early church…. while John the disciple was still alive, the church I think in Corinth wrote a letter asking questions about the faith. The letter wasn’t to John, the still living “one whom He loved” it was to the pope. The pope wrote back instructing the faithful just as was intended when the first man had his name changed to “rock” by The Lord

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            Vatican KILLED WILLIAM TYNDALE, translator of the Holy Bible!! The RC CULT hates the Holy Bible and those that believe it!

            Pope has said currently that all faiths – even atheists – go to heaven!!

            totally antiChrist.

          • lizk

            God raised up men who stood for true because the church brought in pagan statues and renamed them, they also keep pagan feasts but people like the feasting but God hates it. You really need to know Daniel and Revelation.

          • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

            Catholic CULT murdered William Tyndale for translating and printing the Holy Bible!

      • Pray Hard

        Go polish you swastika.

        • Anna Lacey

          I would not bother with him, he’s a Holocaust denier for one thing. Just report him and let him whinge about his ‘freedom of speech’ when he gets banned….

      • Mark Hamric

        The Bible clearly says that Jesus laid his life down and took it back up. Why do you want to blame the Jews? If things had not transpired the way they did Christianity would not have come into the world and you would still be in your sins. Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world.

        • pgg804

          If you weren’t so completely in the dark you wouldn’t ask that question. It is amazing how so called “Christians” in the USA worship Jews. For 2,000 years Christians and Jews were not friends and were often enemies and they have destroyed Christianity. Millions of Americans read a bible written by Zionists in the 20th century called the Scofield Bible. It is amazing how stupid so many Americans are.

          • Anna Lacey

            OK, so you to realize that the New Testament a book that was written almost exclusively by Jews, categorically tells us Jesus was a Jew, right?

            ….and all your talk of ‘destroying Christianity- well- you need to put down that copy of the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion’ mate, and read something that is actually factually accurate- not fantasy like that.

          • pgg804

            Stupid, you do realize Jesus rejected Judaism, do you not? You do realize the Jews pressured Pontius Pilate to kill Jesus, don’t you? How old are you stupid? When I was young we said a prayer in public school before our first class. People said “Merry Christmas” in December throughout the country, church bells rang on Sunday, people gave Christmas cards and only Jews knew what Chanukah was. There was no Menorah at the White House. The USA’s Ivy league schools were dominated by the descendants of the people that founded the country and those schools – white Christians. Now, because of Jewish racism, there are more Jews (which make up 2% of the US population) than whites.

          • chofgo

            You prove your own point…

        • pgg804

          If you weren’t so completely in the dark you wouldn’t ask that question. It is amazing how so called “Christians” in the USA worship Jews. For 2,000 years Christians and Jews were not friends and were often enemies and they have destroyed Christianity. Millions of Americans read a bible written by Zionists in the 20th century called the Scofield Bible. It is amazing how stupid so many Americans are.

      • Anna Lacey

        Rubbish. You have been reading too much of ‘The Protocols of the Elders of Zion’ and too many conspiracy theories mate. If there are Jews in high positions its mostly because they got there through hard work- and let us not forget ,this kind of rabid anti-Semetic jealousy and paranoia is what happened in Germany before the holocaust……

        • pgg804

          It’s not jealousy stupid. It is racism practiced by Jews. There was no holocaust stupid – there were no lampshades or soap made from Jews and there were no gas chambers. I know 100 times more than you about it dumb dumb. They’ve been caught lying repeatedly and they don’t have any evidence to support their lies. Their story has fallen apart.

          • Anna Lacey

            Your comment really says it all, and I like you (intelligent and reasonable though you profess to be), do not need to resort to insults.

            I do wonder what the God you profess to believe in would think about you believing such things- especially considering the documented cases of Christians who faced death for protecting Jews during the Holocaust. You know, the one you deny ever happened…..

      • Shauna Morgan

        Removing the children from the parents shouldn’t be for spiritual reasons. It should be because the parents are physically or emotionally hurting their children. Even so -called Christians have hurt their children by cutting them down or beating them in anger instead of just giving discipline. It shouldn’t have anything to do w their religion.

        • Kelly Watkins

          You get all the points in the world for not starting an argument on this thread! 🙂

      • reve888

        Baloney, Jews haven’t destroyed Christianity. Christians have destroyed Christianity and liberals are helping them along. So what if they are liberal Jews? Judaism has nothing to do with their liberalness. Obviously it doesn’t, because liberal Jews do not support Israel. So, liberalism has helped destroy Judaism and Christianity. But don’t make the mistake of blaming it on Judaism just because the very liberal Jews, who are hardly Jews at all because they worship liberalism over Judaism, had something to do with it.

        • pgg804

          Your problem is you’re stupid. But that doesn’t stop you from talking.

          Vice President Biden:

          “Jewish heritage has shaped who we are – all of us – as much or more than any other factor in the last 223 years. And that’s a fact,” Biden told a gathering of Jewish leaders on May 21, 2013, in Washington, DC. “The truth is that Jewish heritage, Jewish culture, Jewish values are such an essential part of who we are that it’s fair to say that Jewish heritage is American heritage,”

          “Think – behind of all that, I bet you 85 percent of those [social-political] changes, whether it’s in Hollywood or social media, are a consequence of Jewish leaders in the industry.”

          “I believe what affects the [social-political] movements in America, what affects our attitudes in America are as much the culture and the arts as anything else,” said Biden. “It wasn’t anything we [politicians] legislatively did,” he went on. “It was [such television shows as] ‘Will and Grace,’ it was the social media. Literally. That’s what changed peoples’ attitudes. That’s why I was so certain that the vast majority of people would embrace, and rapidly embrace” same-sex marriage.

          Biden says Jews are responsible for gay marriage. Homosexuality is a sin according to Christianity.

          Jews in the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) began bringing cities and towns to court to have nativity scenes removed from public places, claiming it was a breach of “separation of church and state”. Before 1970 no one (except Jews) knew what Chanukah was. Now we have a Chanukah celebration with Menorah every year at the White House for the 2% of Americans that run the US.

          Johannes Oesterreicher was an Austrian Jew that converted to Catholicism. He infiltrated the Catholic Church after WW II, becoming a significant figure in the church. He was a leader in the Vatican II changes that after 2,000 years forced the church to change its view on who was responsible for Jesus’ death, saying it was Pontious Pilate’s fault and removing the responsibility from the Jews. Up until that time the Jews were held responsible for Jesus’ death.
          In the 1970’s, when the Jews began promoting the “Holocaust Industry”, an indictment of all Germans, but secondarily all Christians from all countries they also began telling people that saying “Merry Christmas” could be offensive to Jews. This was reported in the Jewish dominated media: Jewish owned New York Times and all the other media outlets they own and run. At the same time Christmas cards starting becoming non-religious, with pictures of Santa Claus instead of Jesus. Chanukah cards started appearing in the 1970’s and the greeting “Happy Holidays” replaced “Merry Christmas” because saying “Merry Christmas” was supposedly offensive to Jews.

        • pgg804

          No, you’re wrong. Is English your native language? You seem to have difficulty comprehending it. Re-read my previous comment. The point isn’t that they are “liberal Jews”. The driving factor is that they are Jews, otherwise all “liberals” would have been behind the destruction of Christianity. But they were not. Jews were.
          If you can’t understand what I wrote in my previous comment, try getting someone who understands English to explain it to you.

      • lizk

        the Jews looked to Pontius Pilate to do what they were not allowed to do. Church and State united to bring it about. Both were guilty as the priest hated Jesus because He lived the truth. All foretold Read Isa 53. It will be the same with Christians when church and state unite the Church will do what she did in the dark ages. The devil knows this and the reformers knew this. The Protestants forgot all this and going back to the mother church, which calls her a whore and her children harlot. For they have left the truth for mans tradition and they put themselves above the word of God and believe a lie.

    • Marco A.

      What a stupid comment, why bring Muslims into it. The government has no right to anyone’s children.

      • gyoung55

        Exactly. But Christians will be threatened with such things when other religions will never be. That is my point.

        • Snake

          Do YOU know why? Because Christians are the only real true believers in GOD and Jesus and the word of GOD and Jesus. The other religions are merely CULTS and really praise Lucifer and other demonic demons like Moohammed and the popes.

      • Erik Parmann

        I agree that bringing Muslims into this in unproductive. But be aware that the children are not removed from their parents because the government “has the right to them”, they are removed because their parents hit them. In Norway kids have independent rights as individuals, they are not just their parents property to abuse until they are adults. And the government will step in to protect the childs right, and in some cases that means removing the child from abusing parents.

        • Marco A.

          I’m sorry, you will need to define ‘hit them’ and differentiate between disciplinary action and severe physical abuse. Unless a child is being severely physically abused and neglected the government has no right to intervene.
          I don’t see anywhere in this article where it was mentioned that the children were being maliciously abused by their parents. This is just another case of your beloved government overstepping its bounds.

          • Erik Parmann

            All forms of corporal punishment is strictly forbidden in Norway. If you want to hit your kids you should not live in Norway! It is as simple as that. The article above is quite lacking, google “vårt land World wide protests after claims of religious persecution” for a English article written by a Norwegian Christian newspaper. The most relevant quotation:

            Before Christmas Norwegian police charged the couple for domestic violence. In an interview with the Romanian TV channel Antena 3 the couple admitted that there have been incidents of corporal punishment.

            Several of the pastors supporting the couple argue that corporal punishment is part of a Christian upbringing, and that the CPS violated religious freedom by taking the children away on the grounds of what the pastors view as religious practise.

            If you actually think hitting your kid is part of your religions practice, then don’t move to Norway. Similarly, female geniale mutilation is also by some seen as a religious practice, but also forbidden.

            Note that the CPS are under strict confidentiality, so the only sources we have are those of the parentes and the charge by the police. Another good read on this is found by googling “Trygve W. Jordheim Do not use the word «persecution» lightly”, again by the christian newspaper “Vårt land”.

          • Anna Lacey

            Just from reading this report, it is stated that the children were examined by medical professionals, and there was reportedly ‘no evidence’ of abuse. It might seem all well and good to condemn these parents as evil abusers for ‘hitting’ thier children, but I seriously question the use of the word in light of the above.
            I suspect rather than ‘hitting’ the only kind of ‘corporal punishment’ was a light slap or spank, probably with the hand. Nothing severe or anything that leaves a mark (or even hurts that much).

            It is suggested here that the accusations of ‘abuse’ are based stongly on the word of the children. Such cases, which rely on the word of children alone, and especially young children, are very problematic, as children can lie or exaggerate. This is not by any means impossible.

            What is more, kids can often hurt one another by fighting more than a spanking ever would. Even small kids will punch, kick, throw things at each other…..etc.

            To give a personal example, I have a small niece and Nephew, and like most siblings they fight- and sometimes, not often but sometimes, they might punch or hit and hurt each other.
            Recently there was an instance of reciprocal hitting, in which the small boy got a tiny cut on his nose.
            Just a tiny thing and easily sorted- they made up and were fine- but the next day when their dad came to pick them up- boy told him his sister had hit him (not mentioning that he had hit her too- and left a mark if I recall).

            Now, its not impossible that that kind of thing can happen in school. That a kid who’s been lightly spanked every so often might say thier Mum and Dad ‘hit’ them and it ‘really hurts’- they might even say that a cut or a bruise they got from fighting with a sibling or by falling over was caused that way. Even an accidental injury. What I am saying is that it is totally unreasonable to take children away from thier parents- because they say they are being ‘hit’.
            It must be investigated, there must be evidence found. This case sounds to me more like a teacher with a grudge, and the kids may even have been asked leading questions.

            What’s more, its absolute nonsense to say that splitting up those kids in Norway and giving them to strangers to adopt is somehow going to to less ‘traumatic’ then giving them back to thier parents.

        • answerman

          Sounds like Nazi Germany or the USSR.

    • Erik Parmann

      They were not removed for practicing Christians, the were removed because the parentes hit them. The couple is charged by the police for domestic violence, and they have even admitted using corporal punishment to Romanian TV channel Antena 3. Corporal punishment is strictly forbidden in Norway. You can disagree with this, but then you should not move to Norway! Hitting your kids is just not acceptable here! According to Vårt land, a Norwegian Christian newspaper[1]:

      Several of the pastors supporting the couple argue that corporal punishment is part of a Christian upbringing, and that the CPS violated religious freedom by taking the children away on the grounds of what the pastors view as religious practise.

      So be aware that this is what you are complaining about. The Norwegian child protection services are stopping kids from being hit, while other claims that it is a “part of Christian upbringing” to be hit. Is this really what you want to demonstrate for? Female circumcision is an example of another practice which some claims are a religious freedom, but which is forbidden. If you want to mutilate your girl or hit your kids, Norway just ain’t the place to be.

      1: Google “vårt land World wide protests after claims of religious persecution”

      • answerman

        Thanks for clearing that up for us. Now we know that Norway is a tyranny where people are not free to parent as they see fit and violating this will result in the dictatorial despots taking your children from you.

        • Erik Parmann

          I guess you would have look to e.g. South-Sudan to find a country where people are “free to parent as they see fit”. The US have child protection services, as do any other civilized country. If you see giving children rights, and protecting them, as a violation of your right as an adult, well, dont move to Norway (but you should probably move away from wherever you live as well.)

          It is also not “dictatorial despots” taking away your children, Norway is a Rechtsstaat (yes, that is what wikipedia claims is the English word for it) where these kinds of decisions can be brought to the court, appealed and so on.

          • http://www.facebook.com/ourbravenewworld Ex Military

            You know, many people believe Jesus wasn’t persecuted for his religion, either, but because he broke several laws of both Jewish and Roman origin. Anyone could astutely argue that Jesus was crucified for being a criminal in the eyes of those who made the laws… after all, He even admitted to Pilate that He was a king. The Jews pointed out that there was no king but Caesar.

            When the laws of man demand we break God’s laws, then man’s laws will be broken. God, indeed, considers this persecution of his holy believers. People are not persecuted because of their religion. Jesus tells us what persecution is right at the beginning of Matthew chapter 5. You should read it.

            You can argue your worldly arguments all you want, but God doesn’t let it slide. As the apostles put it [paraphrase], “Judge for yourselves, it is better to obey God rather than man.”

            He will take vengeance on behalf of his saints. Come out of the darkness before it is too late for you.

      • Anna Lacey

        It sounds like they have based this on the words of the children and the headmaster. I very much doubt (judging by the fact that it is stated here there was no medical evidence of abuse), that there was any corporal punishment except for a light slap or spank on the bottom with the hand.

        Children can hurt each other worse than that when they fight, and there have been cases of children lying, saying parents have abused them when they have not. In such cases the word of the child alone cannot be taken as ‘gospel’. The fact that there was no other evidence makes me suspicious.

        Its not unlikely the kids were heard at school thay ‘hitting’ was child abuse, and maybe ‘told on’ thier parents, perhaps even unintentionally not intending to cause any problems. Perhaps one of them made a remark saying ‘Mummy sometimes hits me when I am naughty’, and were asked leading questions to come up with allegations of abuse.

        Children are not going to be taken to court or imprisoned for hitting or kicking each other (as they sometimes do, regardless of whether corporal punishment is used or not used in thier household). Kids sometimes do fight- and siblings do more often then not.

        That is usually considered by most people to be relatively harmless- yet parents who just so much as spank children, not even hurting or leaving a mark, can have thier kids taken away and be branded abusers.

        How is that ‘protecting them’ from abuse?

      • lizk

        There were people that I know had corporal punishment but they are the nicest people, they show respect to other people, they have manners now kids feel entittled a lot of them have no respect for elders. That is the devils thing let them do what they want. He sure is fooling the world. God said spare the rod and spoil the child. I’ve tried time out for my kids and it did not work and even if I took away privileges that did not work in fact my one child came home and asked me to ground her and to ground her brother and I asked what did they do, she said nothing but did not want them to go out. They did get spanking when they did wrong but they were not beatened

      • lizk

        you know even froster parents can abuse kids and I heard some did it to the point the child died by not feeding them and I heard worse. Better to leave them with the parents, they were not beating them.

  • http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/ Retha Faurie

    How true is this story? In any case where children are removed, the Child welfare services, whether right or wrong, is at a disadvantage.

    The parents are free to paint the agency who took the kids as no-reason child stealers, and usually do. This is the picture that puts the parents in the best light.
    The Child Welfare does not, by law, have the right to say:
    “[Name] from the [last name] family was being sexually abused by her father/ was black and blue with bruises from beatings/ etc.”

    • Liz

      This was in Norway not the US. It is not far off I fear in our country.

      • elsket

        This is simply not a true article. This would not be possible in Norway, neither to remove the children due to religion, nor to put them up for adoption. In worst case they would be in foster care until they turn 18, but not due to religious upbringing, and there is more to this case. I am very sceptic to Barnevernet, but this is just not true.

        • Liz

          I hope you are right. This would be a very disappointing event if it is true. Seeing that so many erroneous things appear on social media I will give Norway the benefit of the doubt. Thank you for your response.

        • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

          Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.

      • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

        Look up Brian & Ruth Christine and family in 2000 – Grant’s Pass, OR. The Statists did the same thing and worse.

        #HATEtheSTATE!!

    • http://textsincontext.wordpress.com Michael Snow

      This is what gives the government such power, those who make excuses for it instead of standing up for the family. Shame.

    • Terry

      I don’t quite understand your post. This is news, not a police report. Can you believe the testimony of the family or do you prefer the government is innocent until proven guilty and the family is guilty until proven innocent?

      • http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/ Retha Faurie

        Both ideas are things I can believe. But at this stage I have no idea who is right. Neither is something I prefer to believe.

        Only one original source is telling the story: The family whose children have been taken. Most people here comment as if they believe the family unconditionally. But in any situation where children are taken from parents, parents will say the welfare did it without good reason. It is a truth as common as “people accused of a crime, if the evidence does not clearly prove their guilt, will say they are innocent.” This happens whether they abused the children or not, whether they are guilty of a crime or not.

        It is not me, but most commenters here 9I am not sure about the reporter writing the article0 who is accepting a story based on a single source which, regardless of the truth of their story, could benefit from being seen as innocent.

        • PJ London

          You are full of it, if the welfare services had any evidence, they would have preferred charges against the parents.
          The fact that no charges have been laid says it all.
          Yet they are looking to permanently remove the children!
          The parents have no rights against the state, one can only hope that one day you will be put in the same position.

        • Terry

          Okay, Retha, you have reservations about the story. You undoubtedly believe that the “establishment” is always right until proven guilty. Children do not belong to the state. They are given to the parents by God. That does not mean they have the right to treat them in an abusive manner but neither does it give other men the right to dictate to the parents how they should raise their children. Our definition of abuse these days can be as narrow as telling our children, “No.”

      • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

        NEVER believe the govt – it is full of LIES & LIARS.

  • Angela Dunnweber

    If this is true ?Then we are losing our rights as Christian parents! So sad!

    • Frank

      It’s has happened here in the US. They don’t even have to prove in Family Court that a parent did anything wrong beyond a reasonable doubt, nor do they give you a trial by jury of your peers. All they need is for a judge to say, it could have happened. And hearsay is fully admissible.

      • mythreesonsjmo

        Actually you do have the right at the preliminary hearing to have a trial by jury of your peers. You are also given a lawyer, or can hire your own, and have the right to be heard at all hearings. Many people don’t take those options and then try to act like they had no choice or no say. It is easier to be a victim right?

      • sandra-paquette-

        Doesn’t surprise me. When you have a Muslim President who won’t allow Christian refugee’s into the country that speaks in volume.

      • Terry

        This is true. It happened to some people I know but the government did not go through with the adoption.

        • elsket

          No, this is not true. And Barnevernet in Norway never put children up for adoption.

          • Terry

            Are you telling me that from my personal experience it is not true or this news story is not true. There has to be some truth to it and can you give documentation that they did not put the children up for adoption. I think this is very important to know the truth about all this but it has to be based on personal experience or reliable documentation.

    • Diane Barnett

      so fight

  • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

    It would be much simpler to execute the children, as Herod did. Of course, Norway wants to murder both body and soul, because they believe they are in the place of God.

  • Ken Faivor

    Probably the lawyers will debate the definition of abuse from here to eternity all the while sucking the life out of their clients.

    The article does not go into any detail really of what brought this about, so how can any discern if anything abusive took place.

    I think some would think that I would be abusive for paddling a child for misbehavior, but the Bible clearly say this must be done. I’m not talking about beating, I’m talking about spanking.

    To all you anti-muleskinners out there. The Lord says spare the rod, spoil the child.

    It takes brains to tan a hide…….it’s true, Google it.

  • Bobi

    Barnevernet is going ahead with the process of adoption because they say that such a long time has passed and now it is going to be traumatic for the children to be returned to their parents,”.. what.. that’s the most unintelligent thing I have read this year…they just don’t want to look even worse when their kids are happy to be back home. Praying for this family.

    • lizk

      That is really sad, they take them away from parents that love their children but leave children in abusive foster homes. They should return the children to the parents. This is the devil work for he will split the home.

    • Diane Low

      Yes their excuse for not returning the children is based on untruth and deception. It defies common sense, but sadly their eyes are blinded. This logic defies the God -given authority these parents have over their own children who have been torn from them. Utterly evil influence, we see it all the time in the family court system in New Zealand.

  • Dave Andre

    Why isn’t the name of the school’s principle named? Protecting the guilty?

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Excellent question!

    • JSebastian

      I think the workers in the government are the truly guilty ones that must be executed for their aggression and crimes. The principal didn’t kidnap anyone.

    • sandra-paquette-

      There should be a street demonstration in protest again all of this. This is terrible in what has happened to this family. And to think the government is nothing more than sitting back and allowing all of this destruction to these kids is beyond words. Then this can happen to any family.

    • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

      I always name the decision makers if such is available. (But Govt Gangsters hide their names often now.)

  • violetteal

    Insane!

    • Diane Low

      It is insanity.

  • Becky

    Looks like they’re sending a message. Keep your faith to yourself, else you’ll end up like the Bodnariu family. Their tactics for silencing Christians is pathetic.

    • Carol Smith

      ya and if the kids are really on fire for the Lord they cannot be silenced amen praying as well

    • lizk

      it’s like we are going back to the dark ages. There is only one religion that wants to be the head (the whole world followed the beast) and if you don’t agree with them you are a heretic Do you believe what the word of God says? All power will be given to the beast for 1 hr.

      • Becky

        Of course, I believe the word of God.

        1 hour?

        • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

          I think they mean IN one hour, all power transferred to the BEAST for 3.5 yrs?

      • carolchristine

        We are. Look at how women are treated still . Especially under Islam and Sharia law. They are still in what Century? The 4th or 8th? Something like that.

        • lizk

          what they do is wrong, but do you know your history of the dark ages? Because people were questioning what they were doing they killed millions but it was not Islam. Know your history study Daniel and Revelation. Islam kills for show but this other one is very cunning and deceives many. Revelation describes it very well, it comes from the Roman Empire if you wrote the description of the litter horn and the 1st beast you should know who it is talking about.

        • lizk

          Islam does it in the spot light but the other does in in secret and if you know who that is, it’s from the dark ages, you need to know your history. Read Daniel and Revelation, pay attention to the little horn and in Rev the 1st beast write down all the description you should be able to understand if you really want to know.

          • Anna Lacey

            Sorry, but I think you guys also need to learn your history before throwing around the word ‘Dark Ages’. I have two degrees in Mediveal History and History, and I can safely say that women were not stoned for adultery in Medieval Europe. Nor were they subjected to practices like FGM (please do not talk about chatity belts- there is no evidence they were used or even existed in Medieval Europe- most seem to be Victorian inventions for museums).

            What’s more, they probably had more rights than some women do today in some countries- they could own and inherit land, they could plead in court, sue and be sued, hire an attorney, run businesses, and there were even female poets and authors.

            They could even take postions of political power, or high office in the Church. I don’t see any female Imams but there sure are heck were female Abbesses and Prioresses…….

            So please, don’t talk to me about ‘returning to the Dark Ages’….

  • Sally Baur

    So, they are saying that it’s more traumatic to be returned to their loving parents than to be separated from them and their siblings and handed off to strangers? Ask any child and they prefer to be with their own family.

    • chris987

      Maybe the children of the those who made this decision should be taken away for a while and let’s see what happens to both. This is psychologically and physically damaging to parents and children who share gentleness and kindness in their home.

  • JSebastian

    “Barnevernet is going ahead with the process of adoption because they say that such a long time has passed and now it is going to be traumatic for the children to be returned to their parents,” Cristian Ionescu, pastor of Elim Romanian Pentecostal Church in Chicago, told the Christian Post.

    But that does not make any sense. Its been only about 45 days, according to the article: As previously reported, on Nov. 16 and 17, Norway’s child welfare services, the Barnevernet, seized Marius and Ruth Bodnariu’s two daughters, two sons and their baby, Ezekiel.

    Kidnappers should be shot. It doesn’t matter if the kidnappers work for a government (that is actually a reason to treat them even more harshly if the case), there can be no tolerance of this kind of aggression against private citizens.

    I hope that the family, and their network of friends and supporters, will make their best efforts to kill the government officials and any other persons involved in directing or actually carrying out the kidnapping of these children. They will be doing a great service to humanity by removing evil, aggressive people from society.

  • Henry Dandria

    Pagans!

  • Dennis Robinson

    Read H. Res 569 and you’ll find that’s in the near future for America and they’ll give your kids to muslime families to raise. It’s a bill to protect muslime but nothing about protecting christians

  • Diane Barnett

    Living as our ancestors did, with the earth, teaching children to grow their own food, animal husbandry, herbs for medicine, I imagine that these children can survive in a blackout, and give good help to their educated civilized neighbors who would be lost with out all their gadgets. Living In a tent, nomadic, not evil, I imagine these children are strong and healthy being out doors. The gov’t states children need to be outside more and then does the opposite, Mrs Obama pushed growing healthy food with children yet these are taken for this. Home education was around before public education, just like the Bible was used to teach from before the gov’t and nay sayers stepped in. It hasn’t been 30 yrs since we had the issue of high school graduates who couldn’t read. Public school doesn’t mean a better education, it means gov’t indoctrination. As well as the confusion of many different views of what is right and wrong. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, right to live free the American dream

  • Ax2root

    Fascism

  • sandra-paquette-

    Nothing more than discrimination against the Christian. So much for the land of the Free.

  • Robert Zeurunkl

    Meanwhile, Norway is importing HOW many muslims into their country?

  • Robert Zeurunkl

    “such a long time has passed and now it is going to be traumatic for the children to be returned to their parents,”

    It’s been, what? A MONTH? Really?

    • http://www.TrustChristOrGoToHell.org VINDICATOR

      The parasites will use any excuse to torture us.

    • Diane Low

      Defies common sense

  • Carol Smith

    it would never be tramatic to return the children because its traumatic to not return them they sound like wonderful parents and if the town says return them return them if I had money to go there I would protest as well

  • KOslo

    I’m an American (atheist) living in Norway for many years and very much against the religious indoctrination of young children. That being said, child welfare services (barnevernet) in Norway is completely out of control (too many cases like this). Removing children from their parents is an extreme act that should be limited to life-threatening situations. Period.

  • Undrende

    A lot of things don’t add up here. First of all, the Norwegian Barnevernet NEVER puts a child up for adoption. (Sadly, I might add, since that in some cases of child abuse would be good for the child, although obviously not in this case.) They also never comment on specific cases to the media, and there are several options for appeal in the system. If this all happened 45 days ago, there is no way the children would be adopted already. I am Norwegian, and I checked the Norwegian christian media to find any of these protests, but there is no mention of them in any of the Norwegian christian newspapers. Wouldn’t you expect this to be a scandal? I also never heard of any protests in Norway, as the article mention. Where are they?

    So, my question to Heather Clark is: Did you check the facts of the story, or just read it online and pass it along? Is there really a pastor called Daniel Bodnariu? Is the family real or just made up? And if they are real and this actually happened, did anybody check the official documents that say “christian indoctrination” is the reason the children are taken, and not neglect or abuse?
    Forgive me for being sceptical here. I totally agree that there is every reason to react if this is true, and I will personally join the protestors, however there are too many Things that don’t add up, and all the stories about this online seem to have their origin and information from Romania.
    (There is an ongoing campaign in Russia and some other countries trying to scare People from moving to western countries, and this story is very similar to the stories they tell. They never turn out to be true, though.)

    • Liviu Vultur

      This case is perfectly documented. It is
      quite sad that Christians in Norway are not revolted (but they are only 1% sad
      enough) It is also sad that you do not know about the ravages Barnevernet has done
      (they have already scandalized the world). Read and think

      • Undrende

        Where can I find any of this documentation? Can you at least give me specific details like where in Norway this is supposed to have taken place, where the brothers church is located or anything like that? Is there a journalist or anybody else that has actually seen a document that states that “christian indoctrination” was the reason the children were taken, or at least spoken with the family directly? This story looks more like those fake stories that go viral online because it is shocking, but turn out to be without any root in the real world.

        • Terry

          Are you Norwegian to know these things? Can you document what you have said?

          • Undrende

            I am Norwegian, but I can find no documentation anywhere. 🙁 Hence my doubts. I have searched in a Professional database, but the case is not mentioned in any Norwegian media anywhere. Christians in Norway don’t react because they have never heard of this. The christian newspapers have not mentioned it with one word! That may be bacause they could not verify the story. So, I am asking for any kind of documentation…

          • Ariel

            Hi Undrende, this is a shocking story, but like you, verified information would be good to have before we start posting it online. Is there any way you could look into govt cases ? or even contact your Christian newspapers to see if they can look into this ? Or even contact the social services over there. Thanks !

          • Undrende

            Christian newspapers in Norway wrote about this last week after I emailed the redactions. The Family exist, and the children are taken away, but the reason appears to be spanking and physically disciplining (which is illegal in Norway), not “christian indoctrination”. The Norwegian pentecostal union are surprised that the Family never contacted them, and yesterday sent out a press release stating that “we are not being persecuted”.

      • elsket

        This is simply not a true article. This would not be possible in Norway, neither to remove the children due to religion, nor to put them up for adoption. In worst case they would be in foster care until they turn 18, but not due to religious upbringing, and there is more to this case. I am very sceptic to Barnevernet, but this is just not true. And, yes — I am Norwegian.

        • carolchristine

          Are you from Norway ?

          • elsket

            Yes, I am

    • johny-english

      Hey man! Where have you been?In what word do you live? You didn’t see any protests (on-line) including in your beloved norway? It is true that from your corrupt barbarian govern there is no information because of confendetiality! In reality they hide the true! No transparency! Why??? It’s obviously why! Totalitar govern that control everything, that’s why norway christian newspaper don’t write anything.

  • ccalreds

    Only because they are christians

  • Jay Dillon

    The Muslim families should be sent back to the manufacturer in the Sahara Desert. The Sandworm I guess it is. WE NEED NO ISLAM IN THESE PARTS NO THANK YOU.

  • Jay Dillon

    Christians, Jews, atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers, Buddhists, Hindus, Shinto, everyone needs to stand together against the Islamofascists and wipe them out of existence. WE DONT WANT ANY OF THESE SCUM ON EARTH.

  • peanut butter

    How could children being returned to their loving parents be in any way ‘traumatic’??

  • Mike Siebel

    The story has many unverified statements. My friends in Norway know this family and they say this article is inaccurate.

    • Terry

      Then there needs to be an update. This has been going on for a good while and I would think that the resource of this news article would be reliable. If they are aware of errors, why have they not posted corrections? I prefer to think this is fairly accurate. It is like the power of government in the world in which we live today.

      • elsket

        Well, we’ve always heard “Don’t believe everything you read” and this would be a good time to apply that. This would have been illegal in Norway in so many ways. You can say a lot about the Children’s welfare services over here, but never do they put children up for adoption, and they can not remove children based on religion…

      • Mike Siebel

        My friends probably spend their time trying to help the family and praying for them instead of talking about them.

  • JSebastian

    Anyone who kidnaps a child from its parents (unless the child has been abused) is a criminal and should be executed.

  • JSebastian

    “Barnevernet is going ahead with the process of adoption because they say that such a long time has passed and now it is going to be traumatic for the children to be returned to their parents,” Cristian Ionescu, pastor of Elim Romanian Pentecostal Church in Chicago, told the Christian Post.

    This does not make any sense. Its been only about 45 days, according to the article: “As previously reported, on Nov. 16 and 17, Norway’s child welfare services, the Barnevernet, seized Marius and Ruth Bodnariu’s two daughters, two sons and their baby, Ezekiel.”

  • Watch man

    This is total madness. It is nonsensical and even anti-God for the state to be the one to train up the child against Bible injunction which the parents embraced. The Bodnarius’ must not give up the fight; and when it is won, they should relocate to Africa. Nonsense country called No-Way or is it Norway.

  • Guy

    Although probably very different ,I remember a case here in Canada where the children were removed from the parents custody due to the parents using the strap for disciplinary measures.the parents were brought before the justice system and fined or reprimanded.The parents assured the courts that it would not happen again ,and the children were brought back ,and this is after at least 6 months.
    These people that refuse to bring back the children are not human ,the children belong to the family PERIOD.Unless it can be proven otherwise.I do believe that we were not given all the facts in this case and/or this is a case of absolute injustice.

  • David

    It’s disgusting! Siezing children in such situations is the last line of attack for those of the progressive libtard mindset. Any attack, which is what i consider it to be, on family, children would be the final straw for me. I doubt i could constrain myself from seeking redress in what ever manner i find suitable. Norwegian authorites have totally lost the plot & any remanants of credibility thye may have had.

  • Marco A.

    This story boggles the mind… “Barnevernet is going ahead with the process of adoption because they say that such a long time has passed and now it is going to be traumatic for the children to be returned to their parents,”

    Typical Marxist behaviour. Thinking that they own everyone, and they can do whatever they please, even with your children… and give outrageous excuses for it.

    If someone takes your children or tries to it automatically gives you the right to end their lives. That this is happening in Norway is no huge surprise, but the audacity of the government services is a little shocking… Norway country (like my country Canada) is totally subverted by Leftist ideology, and this just shows how docile a leftist country is, in that protests have to occur in OTHER countries.

  • elsket

    It is not legal to remove children from their parents based on religious upbringing in Norway. And Barnevernet never put children up for adoption, as that would not be legal either. But — there has been several outrageous rumors in Eastern Europe about the Norwegian Barnevern. One even said that the Norwegian government stole Eastern European children because of falling population in Norway. Which of course is ridiculous. And we are struggling with coping with all the children refugees crossing our borders, anyway…

  • Pray Hard

    The continued destruction of the family by the NWO/NMO. They wouldn’t do this to a Muslim family in a million years. F’ing commies.

  • stevemontgomerymex
  • Undrende

    This story needs some correction!
    While the brother (a Chicago based pastor) stirrs up demonstrations around the world, the Norwegian christians never heard of this untill Jan 7th when one of the christian newspapers brought the story. But the story they tell is a completely different one.
    1) The children were not taken because of “christian indoctrination” but because they were spanked and disciplined physically. This is illegal in Norway. I agree that we can discuss whether the law is good or not, but it is the law, so the real question is: Should christians follow the law. Or is this a case where civil disobedience is appropriate? And how much can parents discipline children before we would want authorities to interfere? I think this is a much harder question, and certainly not a situation where we want christians around the world to demonstrate in front of the embassies.
    2) The Norwegian pentecostal union are surprised that they have not been contacted by the family, and yesterday sent out a press release stating “we are not being persecuted”.
    This certanly makes me question the content of this article.

  • Dean Foley

    This is where secularisation leads, coming to the UK soon. We already have the proposal for Ofsted to “inspect” church run summer schools and camps to look out for ‘radicalisation’, how pathetic. A radical Christian will love his neighbour, love his enemy and do good to those who persecute him, that’s the radical teaching of Jesus. A radical Muslim will kill his enemy (and anyone who doesn’t agree with his interpretation of the Quran and Hadith is an enemy), that’s the radical teaching of Mohammed. The radical Atheist will impose state rule in every aspect of the life of the nation, which inevitable leads to the atrocities we saw in the 20th century, Stalin killed 60 million of his own people. Which ideology or worldview is the threat?

  • Snake

    So the kids were removed from the couple because of “child abuse” and not religion. Can we actually get a truthful news story on this planet that is not full of PC bullchit?

  • answerman

    Americans, this is your future!

  • answerman

    Boycott products from Norway (if there are any)!!!
    Don’t travel there and let’s protest at their embassy in the US.

  • http://www.bambinozoom.com Mariann Asbury

    hogwash, it is not traumatic to return to parents only after 3 months….what is traumatic, is to split and spread……so ashamed to be a Norwegian over this.

  • http://www.1eternitymatters.wordpress.com/ Eternity Matters

    This is creepy but predictable. The Left would do this today in the U.S. if they could get away with it.

    And as another commenter noted, how about taking kids from radicalized Muslim parents? There wouldn’t be many kids left with them!

  • Rogdj Castleberg

    So, being radical Christian is dangerous ? “No physical or mental abuse”, the girls are “intelligent and creative” A girl sang a song to her friends. Wow, that is dangerously radical. Seems the word radical is being narrowed down to mean that you really do believe. Well, we can’t have people running around actually living a Christian life can we ? Singing songs, loving their neighbors, telling others about Jesus and (shudder) reading the Bible and praying !

  • Desi

    According to a Christian friend of mine that teaches Hebrew at an Olso college, it’s illegal to physically punish or threaten children in Norway. Apparently these parents not only physically punished their children, but did so in an abusive manner. These details have been conveniently left out. Their Christian faith has nothing to do with it. In addition, some of the people behind this story have radical political views and are known to sensationalize these types of things. At least, that’s what I was told, for what it’s worth.

  • Theodore Hyczko

    GET OUR POLITICAL figures in power to boycott Norway Make this national news

  • Frank

    Horrifying. Such darkness it’s incredible in Norway.

  • norbertjstpierre

    It is already happening here in the US and in fact has a long history. Children are removed from their parents by forced education laws that discourage home schooling. In essence, for religious
    training by the State, the religion being atheism.

  • Dan Kellam

    Children are seized from all backgrounds on all continents every day. What the outrage should be about is the fact that this happens to anyone, not just to one particular group. Splitting up homes is certainly a tool of the demonic. Perhaps Abe Lincoln said it best, a divided house cannot stand. And the demonic are adept at dividing the various religions and pitting them against each other.

  • Colin Langley

    I have to admit that this is taking things too far and it will just cast an already large shadow of utter absurd radicalized liberalism hiding behind the even more abhorrent political correctness that everyone seems to cry over these days. I do, however, think that religion should not be taught to children at such an impressionable age. They should have the right to make an informed mature decision when they feel the time has come to harbor a spiritual thread through their lives. Religion is used as such a nasty, aggressive, judgmental and divisive weapon that no child should have it taught to them and add all that codswallop on such young shoulders. And i am talking of all religions no matter how peaceful they say they are.

  • mbabbitt

    Disappointing to see the anti-Semitism in the comments below.

  • Yorkie Tank

    At what point is any “Government” elevated above the rights of the citizens? The notion that people are the possession of some governmental authority is unfortunately growing at a rapid pace. The Government is comprised of citizens who view themselves as being a part of something larger which must look out for the “welfare” of other citizens. Fair enough. However, when the overreaching grasp of the Government usurps the rights of the citizens, there exists NO justification. This is an outrage!!

  • Dianna Raye

    Ummm… what about the allegations of child abuse? Physical and metal abuse? Anyone care? More interested in getting angry and blaming Muslims, Jews and Antichrists? Please don’t let fear mongering and hatred persuade you to so quickly lose all concern for the safety of children. Plenty of children have been in abusive “christian” homes, including friends of mine who were beat and molested as children. Don’t believe a spin just because it feels good to get mad. Practice love.

  • GigiReg

    More children for the pedophiles to molest/rape. This kidnapping by the state needs to STOP! Read and learn the REAL reason they kidnap kids!

  • Ray Ramirez

    What kind of people live in Norway that they allow their government to act this way? Everyone needs to go out in the street to protest this gross violation of human rights.
    Has Norway been taken over by Muslims?

  • Jeff Gabel

    This is the country that the left loves to tout as the greatest example of Socialism and it’s wonderful benefits for society. It truly is anti Christ and anti Christian agendas all over the world from leftists in every country.