Donald Trump Attends ‘Gay-Affirming’ Presbyterian ‘Church’ in Iowa Days Before Caucus

MuscatineMUSCATINE, Iowa — Whether or not he was aware that it was not the same branch of Presbyterianism he claims to follow, Donald Trump obtained a lesson in “humility” during a reading at a “gay-affirming” Presbyterian USA congregation on Sunday, followed by a sermon from a woman pastor that included talk on welcoming refugees.

“We talked about humility in church today,” Trump told reporters following the service at First Presbyterian Church of Muscatine (PCUSA), which he visited prior to a campaign rally in the city, just days before the Iowa Caucus. “I don’t know if that was aimed at me. Perhaps.”

The reading was from 1 Corinthians 12, and was delivered by a female member of the congregation.

“I also want you to think about how this keeps your significance from getting blown up into self-importance. For no matter how significant you are, it is only because of what you are part of,” she stated in speaking on the passage.

“Can you imagine eye telling hand, ‘Get lost; I don’t need you?’ Or, head telling foot, ‘You’re fired; your job has been phased out?’” the woman said. Trump is known for his “You’re fired” line on “The Apprentice.”

‘‘I heard that,’’ Trump told reporters. ‘‘I wondered if that was for me. They didn’t even know I was coming, so I doubt it. But it’s an appropriate phrase. … Perhaps she had something in mind.”

“I have more humility than people think,” he asserted.

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The congregation’s minister, Pamela Saturnia, also delivered a message during the service, during which she contended that “Syrian refugees and Mexican migrants” should be welcomed by the nation and not shut out.

‘‘Jesus is teaching us today that he has come for those who are outside of the church,’’ she said. “[T]hose who are the most unloved, the most discriminated against, the most forgotten in our community and in our world.’’

Trump said that he heard Saturnia’s words, but still believes that Syrians should be cared for in their own country.

“I can only tell you that I want to take care of all people but with Syrians, we just can’t do it here. But I do want to build a safe zone [in Syria],” he stated. “We should have done that a long time ago.”

In addition to listening to the messages, Trump joined in the singing of hymns as the woman next to him put her arm around him.

As previously reported, Trump has stated numerous times over the past year that he identifies as Presbyterian.

“I am a religious person. People are so shocked when they find this out—I’m Protestant. I’m Presbyterian,” he said during the Iowa Family Leadership Summit last July, stating that his pastor was the late Norman Vincent Peale, who became known for his books and speeches on “the power of positive thinking.”

Peale led Marble Collegiate Church in New York City, which is actually not Presbyterian, but according to its website is affiliated with the Reformed Church in America (RCA).

There are two groups of Presbyterians: the Presbyterian Church of America (PCA) and the Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA). The PCA separated from PCUSA in the 1970’s due to “opposition to the long-developing theological liberalism which denied the deity of Jesus Christ and the inerrancy and authority of Scripture.”

As previously reported, last year, the leadership of PCUSA voted to redefine marriage and allow ministers to officiate same-sex ceremonies. PCUSA congregations are also generally pro-abortion.

PCA as a denomination affirms the biblical definition of marriage and the sanctity of human life.


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  • Shaun D.

    All homosexuality is “an abomination” unto God.

    I surely hope Trump is not in favor of queer “marriage”, or homosexuality/lesbianism etc etc.

    • gizmo23

      If he follows the law in his business dealing does that mean he is a sell out?

    • acontraryview

      it really doesn’t matter if Trump, or any other candidate, supports or doesn’t support civil marriage between two citizens of the same gender. The issue is settled.

      • Cat2727

        It is settled with a Higher Authority.

        • acontraryview

          From a legal standpoint you are quite right. The SCOTuS.

        • PietjePuk

          I indeed think that god is happy that gays can marry now as well.

          You might remember what jesus said about love: Love is the fulfillment of the law. The fact that two loving and caring same sex individuals can now live in love together has brought that fulfillment of the law a little closer. God must be smiling.

          • Cat2727

            Love is the fulfillment of the law.

            You may or may not be aware that “love” in that verse is agape love, or the love that puts another’s well-being above one’s own rather than the romantic, sexual sort.

            By making one’s desires and romantic feelings the overriding principle in determining right and wrong, you make romantic love above God and everything else He has said on the subject..

            Love takes no pleasure in evil, but rejoices in the truth. (1 Cor. 13:6)

            True agape love will never rejoice in something that is against God’s truth. If elsewhere in God’s word homosexuality is identified as against His will, such cannot be according to “love.”

          • PietjePuk

            I understand where you come from, but it is not correct.
            This is the context:
            10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
            There are many different ways of love that are involved in a relationship. It includes indeed the romantic, it includes attraction, as you say putting another’s well-being above one’s own and many others. That goes for heterosexual relationships as well as homosexual relationships. So the same sex relationship is also a fulfillment of the law.
            As to your last sentence, you are asking the question if elsewhere in god’s word homosexuality is identified as against his will. The question is no.

            If it would be, you would have found it in the OT to begin with (god would not have made up new rules half way the game).

            We all know that S&G had nothing to do with homosexuality. It was about greed, inhospitality and grave injustice. If you disagree, I am more than happy to explain in more detail. For now I just limit myself to saying that nowhere in the bible you find a reference to S&G saying that homosexuality was the sin that brought it down. Also the copyright holders of this story (judaism) will tell you that homosexuality was not the sin of sodom. And in judges 19&20 you will find exactly the same story: strangers visit a village, stranger gets raped, city gets destroyed. Only in this case the raped stranger is female and not male. Unless you believe that heterosexuality is also doomed, it becomes clear that it is about the (threat of) rape of strangers that condemns the city. The fact that it is same sex rape or heterosexual rape is irrelevant.

            Next is leviticus:

            Reading Leviticus 15, verse 19 to 24 we read about the uncleanliness of having sex with a woman during her period which uncleanliness lasts for 7 days. Bringing two doves to the temple and all will be fine again. Quite easy isn’t it?
            Exactly the same “sin” is described in Leviticus 18 and 20, but now the punishment is being cut off from the people of Israel. I don’t believe in typos in the bible. There is clearly something contextual at play in 18 and 20 that makes the difference!

            A good hint can be found in the verse that is preceding the one about homosexuality:
            21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.

            This verse is about sacrificing first borns to Molek, the fertility god. Strange to have all the sudden a reference to child sacrifice in between all the sexual “sins” don’t you think?

            Further in 18 you get more of a hint:

            29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

            30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God

            Compare that with the beginning of Leviticus 20

            20 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

            2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

            3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.

            4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:

            5 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.

            It becomes pretty clear what the context of both leviticus 18 and 20 is. It is about temple prostitution. It is about sex orgies as part of Baal/Molek worshipping. Where man had sex with everything on two and four legs as fertility rituals.

            It is for this reason that jewish laws demanded four independent eye witnesses to confirm that a man actually had sex with another man. I make love to my husband regularly, but so far never had one eye witness.

            There is no reference in the old testament to same sex love, as in a loving and caring, exclusive relationship, is a sin.

            And it can’t be, as it is not in contravention to the two foundational commandments on which all other laws and commandments rest:
            Love god, and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

            Also remember, that no good fruit can come from a bad three, and no bad fruit from a good three.

            As a consequence, the references to homosexuality in the new testament must have a different meaning as well. Which is the case.

      • Shaun D.

        Yes, you’re correct.

        GOD CALLS ALL HOMOSEXUALITY/LESBIANISM/TRANNY FREAKS, “ABOMINATIONS” (Leviticus 18:22) AND WORTHY OF DEATH” (Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:24-32).

        So, yes, the matter IS settled.

        YOU FREAKS don’t belong.

        • acontraryview

          Leviticus was not God.

          “YOU FREAKS don’t belong.”

          You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

    • PietjePuk

      Factually wrong. abomination is an incorrect, prejudiced translation. Taboo would have been better translation and closer to the truth.
      And your abomination remark comes within a certain context which you completely ignore.

      Lets start with the beginning, with Leviticus.

      Reading Leviticus 15, verse 19 to 24 we read about the uncleanliness of having sex with a woman during her period which uncleanliness lasts for 7 days. Bringing two doves to the temple and all will be fine again. Quite easy isn’t it?

      Exactly the same “sin” is described in Leviticus 18 and 20, but now the punishment is being cut off from the people of Israel. I don’t believe in typos in the bible. Could there be something contextual at play in 18 and 20 that makes the difference?

    • Dianne

      Trump has ATTENDED gay weddings of his friends. He is so full of DECEPTION. I hope more people will realize it.

  • http://verbus.dreamhosters.com OneBreadOneBody

    It’s certainly good to know that we have this reliable “news” source to separate the wheat from the tares. I thought the Lord would do that at the harvest, but we’re blessed to have someone point out the difference between a church and a “church.”

  • Reason2012

    If God makes it clear women are not to be pastors, then you need to get out of a church that ignores what God says and does what they want instead.

    Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

    Homosexual behavior is most literally pointed out as a sin, and God has not changed on that regard. But if a person has those inclinations but does not act upon them, does not dwell in lust upon others, but is instead struggling against them to avoid them, then it’s not a sin. It’s just like sinful inclinations of any kind: it’s acting upon it when it becomes a sin.

    And this is what God says about sin and specifically the behavior of homosexuality:

    Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

    Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

    Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

    The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

    Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

    God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

    Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

    Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

    Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

    Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

    And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

    And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

    And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

    These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

    Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

    Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

    Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

    Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

    1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

    1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

    2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

    And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

    Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

    Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

    And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

    Live forever, people – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world.

    May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

    • gizmo23

      Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

      So are you for killing gay people?

      • Emmanuel

        I like how you use that verse incorrectly to support your sin. Please learn the meaning of the whole verse and chapter before using it.

        • gizmo23

          I didn’t use it and I don’t know what sin I have done in relation to this

          • Emmanuel

            if you are an unbeliever, you are right, no sin. But, if you are a christian, you need to reread that chapter.

          • gizmo23

            Still doesn’t apply to me

          • Emmanuel

            So you are a believer that the Bible does not apply to you? Or only certain verses?

          • PietjePuk

            Dear Emmanuel.
            The bible does not always say what most people thing it says. The bible, in its original text might be inerrant, but the translations and interpretations are far from it.

          • afchief

            The sin of homosexuality is no different then the sin of lying. Both will separate you from God, in hell.

          • acontraryview

            Given the frequency of your lying, then you must be separate from God.

          • afchief

            You have been given over to a reprobate mind. There is NO truth in you!!! You are a liar and serve the father of lies……satan!!!

            Romans 1:18-28 (NASB) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

            24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

            26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

            28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

          • acontraryview

            “There is NO truth in you!!! You are a liar”

            And, yet, despite your frequent accusations that I have lied, you have been unable to point out anything that I said that is a lie. Which means, of course, that you are lying. Tsk, tsk, Russ.

          • gizmo23

            But I’m not gay

          • afchief

            It doesn’t matter. If you do not accept Jesus Christ into your life your final destination is…….hell.

          • gizmo23

            So when Cruz lied he seperated himself from God just as if he were gay?

          • afchief

            What did Cruz lie about?

          • gizmo23

            His lack of insurance as I showed you before

          • afchief

            Prove it! I believe nothing that comes out of the media. Including Fox News.

            I don’t trust anything from our lying godless liberal media until I verify.

          • gizmo23

            Not wasting time on you

          • afchief

            Thought so!! Lying is liberals defining characteristic.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Well, what would you trust, then?

          • afchief

            One thing you liberal/homosexuals do not understand is who lives within us Christians. We are able to distinguish between lies and truth. When I hear something from the media the Holy Spirit within me will let me know if it is a lie or truth. It is the Holy Spirit who leads and guides us into ALL truth!!!

            John 16:13 (NASB) But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

          • disqus_23FzLxRDKW

            The Holy Spirit may be infallible. But you, me and the other members of the 40,000 club are not.

          • Luke Sulla

            Wow

          • afchief

            We sure can!!!!

            Hebrews 5:14 (NASB) But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

      • Reason2012

        “And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
        Leviticus 20:10

        No more than I’m for putting adulterers to death.
        Where you’ve been deceived is that the death penalty has been done away with by Christ – now God will be the one that judges those with death who do such things and refuse to repent before they face Him.

        “And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.

        But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

        So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

        And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

        When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.”
        John 8:3-11

        There’s no such thing as “gay” people – just people who currently act on that desire. Many have turned to Christ and turned away from such things.

        • gizmo23

          So why quote it if it doesn’t apply anymore?

          • Reason2012

            Israelites (or anyone) imposing the death penalty here is no longer relevant – but the fact that they are still SINS is.

          • gizmo23

            So how do you think gay people that don’t know that react when they hear such things. I’ll tell you. They think you want to kill them

          • Reason2012

            Hello again. Given everything I’ve pointed out, it’s a stretch to claim that means any of us want to kill adulterers or those into homosexuality or those who are lying, or those who work on the Sabbath and so on. I don’t even hear of anyone saying they’ve killed adulterers, liars, those into homosexuality and so on in the name of Christ.

            But every day there are muslims that kill those into homosexuality – why is it you instead focus on Christianity when all they are trying to do is rebuke this attempt to attack what God defined and not islam when they_KILL those into homosexuality?

          • gizmo23

            I focus because you are the one posting the verses not a Muslim. If these verses no longer apply why post them to make your point? It makes Christians appear so though these punishments should apply. I know they do not, but many people don’t understand that. People have killed using Bible verses as a reason.
            I’m only trying to point out that using this tactic serves no good purpose and hurts the Christian cause.

          • Reason2012

            It’s muslims that are factually killing those into homosexuality pretty much daily, not Christians. Where are your posts on muslim websites condemning them?

            You instead say “It seems Christians ‘should’ be killing homosexuals”.

            Do they?

            No.

            It doesn’t hurt the Christian cause to point out what God says is still sin. It hurts your cause to ignore that muslims ARE killing those who are into homosexuality and you instead continue to go after Christians pretending they “might” do so. You’re being disingenuous.

          • gizmo23

            I’m not talking about the evil things Muslims do. I’m pointing out that citing verses that say gays should be killed is not helpful

          • PietjePuk

            Adultery is, homosexuality is not. That follows from the two commandments.
            Leviticus 18 and 20 are about something totally different.

          • Reason2012

            God says otherwise.

            Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

            1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

            1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

            Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

            Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

            Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

            Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

            The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

            Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

            God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

            Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

            Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

            Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

            For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

            Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

            For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

            And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

            The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

            Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

            And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

            And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

            And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

            These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

            Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

            Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

            Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

            Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

            Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

            1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

            1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

            2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

            Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

            And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

            Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

            Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

            And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

            Live forever, people – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world.

            May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

      • FoJC_Forever

        Under the Mosaic Covenant, that was God’s instruction. Now, under the Covenant made with mankind through Jesus (the) Christ, sin hasn’t been redefined, but the offer of forgiveness and cleansing for all but one sin has been extended to everyone who will believe in, confess to, and follow Jesus (the) Christ as LORD and Savior.

        Follow Jesus, find Salvation.

        • gizmo23

          Then why use those verses for an arguement

          • FoJC_Forever

            I think he’s simply pointing out that homosexuality has never been accepted by God, under the Old Covenant, nor the New.

            Good News though, homosexuals can be forgiven, delivered, and cleansed of all their Sin by Jesus (the) Christ, just like anyone else, save those who have blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

        • gizmo23

          How do you think gay people feel or react when they see that verse that says they should be killed? Do you think they say “that’s old testament stuff and was changed by the new covenant?” Or do you think they say “Christians are violent and want us dead?”

          • http://biblewordstudy.org Adam in Christ

            Probably the same way adulterers would feel by reading Leviticus 20 verse 10 (of which I’ve been guilty of):

            Leviticus 20:10
            …(10)And the man that committeth adultery with man’s wife, that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death…

            All sexual practice outside of a marriage covenant between one man and one woman is declared abomination and sin by God. We’ve all, in some manner, broken one of His commandments and are worthy of death. However, God sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to die in our place so that we would not have to face and endure death for all of eternity.

            Follow Jesus, find Salvation.

          • gizmo23

            So there is no redemption only that one be killed for their sin. That is the way many people will see this. How does that bring them to Christ. It is saying “sin and we will kill you”

          • Josey

            John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
            There is a death sentence on everyone who does not accept Jesus sacrifice on the cross, He took our sin upon Himself, all a person needs to do is believe and accept that, we have all fallen short of His glory. No one else would die for a man’s sin but Christ did and the choice is up to each individual to accept that and receive life everlasting and submit to Christ or to choose to remain in their fallen sinful state by rejecting God’s offer of salvation through Jesus Christ and the penalty for sin is death.
            Romans 6:20-23 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

          • PietjePuk

            Well, that is now a real sin (adultery), as that is clearly against jesus his two foundational commandments: Love god and Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
            However, homosexuality is not in contravention of these two laws.

            Leviticus 18 and 20 is about something totally different.

            Reading Leviticus 15, verse 19 to 24 we read about the uncleanliness of having sex with a woman during her period which uncleanliness lasts for 7 days. Bringing two doves to the temple and all will be fine again. Quite easy isn’t it?

            Exactly the same “sin” is described in Leviticus 18 and 20, but now the punishment is being cut off from the people of Israel. I don’t believe in typos in the bible. There is clearly something contextual at play in 18 and 20 that makes the difference.

          • FoJC_Forever

            They should realize how evil it is to give in to their lustful desires, because God has declared it to be worthy of death. However, they should also realize that their are many sins that were worthy of physical death under the Mosaic Covenant. They can also realize the saving power of Jesus (the) Christ, if they will turn to Him for forgiveness and cleansing, so that they can be filled with the Holy Spirit and be made to inherit Eternal Life.

            The Gospel should never be changed, just because someone might feel bad if they hear it. It is the power of God unto those who believe for Salvation. Granted, there have been and are many, many people using the Scriptures to hammer on certain groups and individuals who have specific sinful desires, but even their misuse of the Scripture doesn’t change the Truth. Homosexuality is truly an abominable sin with consequences that are more intense to the person giving in to it than other types of sins. However, even with the nature of the sin, it is the same grace – power of God – that forgives a person of homosexuality, and redeems them from its clutches, that forgives someone of lying or stealing or harboring pride or adultery or any other sin – save for the the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

            Just because someone may want to hound and hammer homosexuals, doesn’t mean the Truth of Salvation shouldn’t be told to them, and this includes the information that it is an abomination to God. They can be saved from their Sin. Hate doesn’t save people anymore than fake, socially acceptable, affectionate based love saves people from their Sin. The only true Love is God. God is the definition of Love. Some people use this Truth to make people think their brand of sweety-pie love is the Love of God. It’s not. However, God is patient, kind, forgiving, endures through anything and everything, and, because of the life, death, and resurrection of His Living Word, Jesus (the) Christ, He doesn’t keep a record of sins against those who will call upon Him for Salvation. This includes those guilty of the sin of homosexuality.

            So, what is the conclusion of the matter? There are sins worthy of physical death and there are sins that aren’t worthy of physical death. However, all Sin brings Death – the absence of Life. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He came to offer this Life to those who would believe Him and accept His offer. He has also fulfilled the Mosaic Covenant and made it non-applicable when it comes to the handling of Sin and sins. So, no, Christians are led by the Holy Spirit to kill homosexuals – or to beat them, harass them, or hound them. Christians are to preach the Gospel and let people decide to accept it or reject it, then keep following Jesus.

            Of course, there is more to be said and that I could write, but I’m not going to try to detail everything here.

            Pray – talk to the LORD. Listen – hear His voice. Read the Scriptures and let the Holy Spirit guide and reveal their meaning. One thing for certain, He will always remind those who seek Him and trust in Him for Salvation that we too needed His forgiveness and mercy to be saved from our Sin and sins, even if they don’t include homosexuality.

        • PietjePuk

          Homosexuality is not a sin, and it has never been a sin.

          You quote scripture which you misunderstand at best, and has often be mistranslated in the past. Lets start with the beginning, with Leviticus.

          Reading Leviticus 15, verse 19 to 24 we read about the uncleanliness of having sex with a woman during her period which uncleanliness lasts for 7 days. Bringing two doves to the temple and all will be fine again. Quite easy isn’t it?

          Exactly the same “sin” is described in Leviticus 18 and 20, but now the punishment is being cut off from the people of Israel. I don’t believe in typos in the bible. Could there be something contextual at play in 18 and 20 that makes the difference?

          • FoJC_Forever

            You’re wrong. There’s no need to engage me in conversation, as you will just be quoting Scripture out of context in an attempt to mislead people about this sin.

          • PietjePuk

            so why are you responding then?

    • PietjePuk

      Sorry dude. You are badly mistaken. And you are definitely very far from where god wants you to be.

      Don’t you know that the two commandments, Love god and Love your neighbor as you love yourself are the foundations of the law?

      Homosexuality is not in contravention of these two laws, and therefore can not be a sin.

      This is what jesus has to say about homosexuality:

      and let not the eunuch say,

      “Behold, I am a dry tree.”

      For thus says the Lord:

      “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,

      who choose the things that please me

      and hold fast my covenant,

      I will give in my house and within my walls

      a monument and a name

      better than sons and daughters;

      I will give them an everlasting name

      that shall not be cut off.

      Lets start with the beginning, with Leviticus.

      Reading Leviticus 15, verse 19 to 24 we read about the uncleanliness of having sex with a woman during her period which lasts for 7 days. Bringing two doves to the temple and all will be fine again. Quite easy isn’t it?

      Exactly the same “sin” is described in Leviticus 18 and 20, but now the punishment is being cut off from the people of Israel. I don’t believe in typos in the bible. Could there be something contextual at play in 18 and 20 that makes the difference?

      Love is the fulfillment of the law.

      • Reason2012

        He’s talking about a brotherly love for your neighbor, not a homosexual love for your neighbor.

        Secondly, eunuch is someone who’s castrated, not a person who’s homosexual.

        “[Jesus said] For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.”
        Matthew 19:12

        Using your logic, Jesus was saying there are some homosexuals who were born that way, some who were made homosexual of men, or some who made themselves a homosexual.

        You can try to twist scripture all you want, but it’s God you’ll have to convince that he approves of homosexuality, not men.

        • PietjePuk

          The meaning of the word Eunuch is much wider (especially for the word in aramees of which Eunuch is the attempted translation).
          From your last category “eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake” you can already see that eunuchs are not perse castrated. We know from the bible that castrating man was a grave sin in Israel. We also know that men without penis where not allowed to enter the temple. To castrate yourself for the kingdom of heaven is the opposite of what you should do. So the last category refers to men that chose to live in celibacy. So the term eunuch is not limited to castrated man only.
          using my logic, Jesus was saying “there are man that are not attracted to women who were born that way, some are castrated and others chose to be celibate for the kingdom of heaven.
          This is also in agreement with the Talmud (which was definitely jesus would have intimate knowledge of as it was his religion), as well as the roman laws of that time.
          No twisting of scripture needed.

          As I try to love my neighbor of myself, I try to point them out to one of the big ten sins: You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

  • gizmo23

    If Trump visits one of his hotels that follows civil rights laws that protects gays does it mean he is “gay affirming?”

  • Emmanuel

    Trump is another Obama, paper christian. Move on, nothing to see here.

    • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

      Somehow Mr Trump’s artless bluster seems a little more honest. Here we have the spectacle of him attending a church but honestly having no notion of how far removed it is from historical Christianity. It’s pretty obvious that he’s out of his depth: he even says as much. This is a great deal more interesting than Mr Obama’s stage-managed deception and endorsement by his quasi-christian marxist liberation theology traveling companions.

    • afchief

      I do not trust Trump. There is a check in my Spirit. I will vote for Ted Cruz in the primaries.

  • jv

    I pray for Donald Trump that he will follow the Bible in opposing gay marriage and the LGBT lifestyle and agenda. We the Tea party OPPOSE homosexuality and the LGBT agenda completely. I know Trump is a much better choice than Obama or Clinton, but it is important to understand what God’s Word says concerning sodomy and homosexuality.

    • gizmo23

      I thought the TEA Party was just about taxes and the economy

      • Michael C

        …and less governmental involvement in the private lives of citizens.

        huh.

      • afchief

        We are about morals also. Homosexuality is very immoral. It is perverted, deviant and extremely dangerous.

        • PietjePuk

          Sorry, you think homosexuality is very immoral. You are allowed to have that opinion, but it is not much more than that.
          You know that from the gospel point of view your opinion is actually very immoral?
          Homosexuality is love. Love is the fulfillment of the law!

          • afchief

            Homosexuality is not love!!! It is about sex. It is a sickness!!!!

            Homosexual behavior is always discussed in the Bible as a serious sin. It is usually not singled out, but listed among other particularly heinous sins as examples of how depraved one can become. It is discussed in the context of idolatry. Idolatry is a most serious offense against God, and its seriousness helps explain why homosexual behavior was a capital offense in the Old Testament. Historical Christian interpretation has consistently viewed homosexual behavior as sinful. The modern word sodomy even comes from the biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah.

            It should be pointed out that what the Bible condemns is not personality traits such as feminine feelings on the part of a man (or masculine feelings on the part of a woman). However, Jesus taught that sin runs deep. He said, “I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:28; compare Mark 7:15-23). But notice the statement in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11: “such were some of you.” This seems a clear indication that homosexuals can change. While our basest instincts of many sorts are difficult to control, we are not like animals in the forest; we can overcome our temptations to become blameless in God’s sight (Philippians 2:15; Colossians 1:22; 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8; 1 Timothy 3:1-13, 5:7, 6:14; Titus 1:6; 1 John 3:4-10).

            There are those who take some of the passages of Scripture above and attempt to show that they do not really mean to condemn homosexuality. But these arguments fall short, and upon investigation become an obvious ploy to distort the plain meaning of Scripture. As applies to other doctrines of the Bible, one must avoid trying to interpret Scripture in light of one’s proclivities, and instead, interpret one’s proclivities in light of Scripture. The Bible is its own grid. It is wrong to overlay your own grid on the Bible. For a more detailed look at this, see Biblical Interpretation.

            Is the biblical view still valid?

            Christians are sometimes accused of being hypocritical on homosexuality because they ignore the death penalty for this sin as prescribed in Leviticus. This is a false charge based on a limited understanding of the Bible. It is helpful to understand the difference between CIVIL or CEREMONIAL LAWS versus MORAL LAWS in the Bible. While civil or ceremonial laws can and do change from country to country or time period to time period, moral laws do not change because they are rooted in the nature of man. The New Testament repealed Old Testament civil law (Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, etc.) and Old Testament ceremonial Jewish laws (Acts 10:12-15; Romans 14:17; Colossians 2:11-16; 1 Timothy 4:1-5). So the Old Testament PENALTY for homosexuality (death) does not carry forward into New Testament times, even though the NATURE of the sin and its condemnation remains. The Bible is consistent throughout on moral law, which includes homosexual behavior.

            This understanding is consistent with how Jesus deals with other sins. We see in John 8 how Jesus treats the adulterous woman. He condemns her actions, yet helps her escape the severe penalties common in their culture.

            What did Jesus say about homosexuality?

            No specific sermon or story that Jesus may have given about specific homosexual behavior is found in Scripture. But an argument from silence would be incorrect. The Bible does not record that Jesus ever mentioned rape, incest, pedophilia, bestiality, or other blatant sins by name either. But just because Jesus does not mention them, does not imply that we should commit these offenses against God and each other. Jesus is very clear on the proper marriage relationship (Matthew 19:4-5; Mark 10:7). There can be no mistaking what Jesus taught in this regard. In this passage, Jesus is reiterating what Moses taught (Genesis 2:24) about marriage and family. Anything contrary to this—any sexual relationship outside of a committed marriage relationship between one man and one woman—demeans the institution of marriage and is unbiblical.

            Jesus was quite clear about his contempt for sexual immorality (Mark 7:21). Jesus’ teaching on moral issues in fact toughened and strengthened them, such as in Matthew 5:27-30 when he expanded our understanding of sexual sin to even lusting in our heart!

            Jesus didn’t merely accept people as he found them—he turned people’s lives around. After his encounter with Jesus, the tax collector Zacchaeus pledged to pay back his debts fourfold (Luke 19:1-10). And Jesus made it clear to the adulteress in John 8:1-11 to leave her life of sin.

            Further, Jesus specifically said that he did not come to abolish the law (Matthew 5:17). Jewish law was quite clear on homosexual behavior. To suggest that Jesus would have condoned homosexual behavior is twisting Scripture for political correctness.

            “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife.” ——Jesus per Mark 10:7

            The God of the Bible is not merely a God of love and forgiveness. God has characteristics of love AND justice (among others). Jesus, for example, warns about hell more than any other biblical figure! We must not underestimate the holiness of God, who demands right conduct—in fact, perfection (Matthew 5:48). For examples of the wrath and judgment of God, read: Genesis 2:17; 2 Kings 17:18; Psalm 74:1, 79:5, 90:11; Proverbs 10:16; Micah 7:9; Zephaniah 3:8; Matthew 5:29, 7:13, 23:25-28, 25:46; Romans 1:32, 2:8, 6:23; Acts 3:19; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Galatians 6:7-8; Philippians 3:19; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; James 1:15; and Revelation 20:12-15.

            There are those who suggest that God is merely a God of love and accepts people just as they are. Certainly that is incorrect. God does not accept us as we are. He demands repentance. We must not create a God to suit ourself. This is idolatry which is a violation of the First and Second Commandments.

    • acontraryview

      “I pray for Donald Trump that he will follow the Bible in opposing gay marriage”

      The issue is settled. It doesn’t matter what Trump, or any other candidate, feels about gay marriage.

  • FoJC_Forever

    Trump is a worldly business man who attends a carnal “church”, like so many others. He may be – may be – a better choice than Clinton, but he doesn’t represent Christian values. Christians need to continue to look to the LORD, not politicians, for guidance and protection. Trump may not be a truly better choice, just a different choice for people with different political persuasions.

    The government of the USA is a worldly government influenced by religious beliefs (like just about every other, if not every other government body in the world). While it may be the best government structure in the earth today, it is not the government structure of the Kingdom of God. It too will pass away, along with all other earthly governments and nations.

    Follow Jesus, find Wisdom.

  • Watcher

    Maybe Mr. Trump is making a real effort, and that is certainly commendable. He listened to the sermon and wondered if it refered to him.

    Still, great as this is, which I want to believe it is, and only God would know for sure, I don’t want him as president. For that, we need someone with a spine of steel and not a new convert, both, in God’s ways and as a Conservative. Under the best of circumstances, it would not be advisable to choose someone new in both of these areas, not to mention knowledge and experience in others as well, given the status of the country, it would not only not be advisible, it would be detrimental.

  • BarkingDawg

    I guess the 2 Corinthinans were both guys

  • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

    The Donald, while a paper Christian, truly cares about America. I believe he is probably the best choice out of the bunch, (possibly Sanders or Bloomberg may match him) as all the other clowns want us back in the Middle East, shoot down Russian fighters (A great idea, lol being sarcastic), and send the military budget through the roof, all while cutting taxes to big corporations, cutting infrastructure needs, and dismantling schools and other programs. If Trump does what he says, (that’s a big if) then we will see a rapid turn around in our economy. The only thing I think is very risky is a trade war with China, which could easily turn sour as Trump overestimates our leverage over them.
    PS the best candidates seem to be a socialist or an ego maniac, perhaps this is a sign of God’s judgment on this country, just a thought.

  • Phil Pockras

    There are more kinds of Presbyterians than PCUSA and PCA. They are the two *biggest* in North America, but not the only two. There are a number of smaller ones, almost all of which profess to be, and try to be, faithful to the inerrant Scriptures and the faithful expression of the Bible’s teaching in the Westminster Confession of Faith, Larger Catechism, and Shorter Catechism.

  • Patrick Van Der Ven

    First of all Donald Trump is an unacceptable candidate for presidency and he will not win the primaries. The problem with trump is he has managed to insult nearly everyone who is not white Anglo-Saxon and Protestant. One of the reasons America survive on such poor wages for workers is that you have immigrants who do the jobs that Americans won’t. The last presidential election was lost by the Republicans because they could not garner the Latino vote. Mr Trump seems set on following this same programme of ostracisatrion of Latinos and immigrants. How really racist not to want to take refugees from Syria. Hay guys your invaded he middle east and created a power vacuum for radical Islam so sorry you need to take refugees.Remember Joseph, Mary and Jesus were supposed to be refugees and fled to Egypt after the murder of the innocents. Give it up on gay marriage as well you have lost the fight. The reason why people are not attending your churches as much is because you are seen as bigoted and racist.