School Bible Clubs Temporarily on Hold in Ohio County Following Atheist Complaint

Reading Bible pdBALTIMORE, Ohio — At least two schools in an Ohio county have temporarily suspended meetings of student Bible clubs following a complaint from a professing atheist organization.

Earlier this month, the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) sent letters to four school districts in Ohio after an unidentified resident provided a screenshot of a church website that said that area Bible clubs were led by “volunteers or community youth pastors.”

The mention on the Faith Memorial Church website had been removed at the time the letters were sent, and Jonathan Morgan, the pastor of the church, said that the text was taken down because it was inaccurate. Only students had been leading the Bible clubs, but pastors were allowed to visit as per student invitations.

“We are writing to request an investigation into the involvement of outside adults in religious clubs in your district,” the letter from FFRF read. “If FMC representatives have indeed been leading student Bible studies, those clubs are not bona fide student-initiated clubs and should be dissolved.”

It asserted that not only would it be unlawful for the lunch-time clubs to be led by anyone other than students, but that church leaders could not participate in the Bible clubs either.

“It is illegal for public schools to allow adults to lead religious instruction on school property during the school day,” FFRF wrote. “Even though the Equal Access Act (EAA) dictates that public secondary schools may not discriminate against student organizations based on their religious, political, philosophical or other beliefs … it is illegal for outside adults to regularly participate in, organize or lead student religious organizations.”

Following receipt of the letter, officials with the Liberty Union-Thurston school district in Fairfield County temporarily placed the clubs on hold while the matter is being investigated. Superintendent Todd Osborn said that his review shows that the groups are being led by students, but students sometimes invite pastors to visit.

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Aaron Green, youth pastor at Faith Memorial Church, told the Christian Post that “most school districts have asked that youth leaders and volunteers to attend less often and only speak at the specific request of the students.”

“Both youth leaders and schools are aware of the sensitive nature under which these things operate and need to be extra vigilant about rules governing separation of church and state,” he said.

“As a pastor, when we are doing our best at the request of others to be of assistance in the lives of others, it’s frankly repulsive where we are today—that an individual can bring such undue and unfounded criticism,” Morgan also told reporters.

At least one attorney has responded to FFRF’s correspondence.

“The districts are meeting with building principals and reviewing the parameters of the federal Equal Access Act,” wrote Sue Yount of Bricker and Eckler in Columbus, according to the Columbus Dispatch. “This Act provides for the right of students to hold religious activities on school grounds during non-instructional time, so long as the activities are student-initiated and student-led, with non-school persons not directing, controlling, or regularly attending.”


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  • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

    Wow, these atheist are slowly squeezing into the choices that students want to make.

    • Imma Commenter

      Study your fairytales in church.

      • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

        Prove that its a fairy tail.

        • Rookheight

          Prove that Humpty Dumpty is a fairytale.

          • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

            For one, that is a nursery rhyme, 2 you cannot disprove Gods existence. 3 for the atheist who think that the Bible teaches a GLOBAL FLOOD, they’re just as ignorant as the YEC group. 4 prove that you know everything there is to know, cause if you do, theres no more point in doing any research. Prove that there is no God, and prove that many of these events in the Bible didn’t occur.

          • Rookheight

            You seem to have missed what I was insinuating. Make-believe things can’t be “disproven.” You can’t prove that any mythical creatures don’t exist, including your chosen god. You are the one with the burden of proof here. Why should I believe any of your supernatural claims?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I agree with you. You can’t disprove the existence of a god. Notice I say “a god.” If you can’t disprove the existence of one god, then you can’t disprove the existence of any of the rest, right?

          • Giraffe-Junk

            Actually, you can disprove the existence of God. First let’s make sure we are talking about the same God, the Christian God. Let’s take a look at His Book. Is man made of Dirt? No. Is woman made from the rib of a man? No. Is the moon a little light? No, it is a reflector. Is there enough water to flood the Earth to the top of the mountains on Earth? No. Can a Wooden Ark the size of Noah’s, when measured using the Ancient Egyptian cubit, float? No. Are skyscrapers currently taller than the tower of Babel could have been? Yes. Can donkeys and serpents talk? No.
            Maybe these are parables that I just don’t seem to understand. Let’s take a look at this Omnipotent Being’s Moral values, surely those must be superior than human morals. Is it moral to kill everyone, save eight, in the largest genocide ever known? No. Is it moral to kill the first born, even though they have nothing to do with your disagreement? No. Is it moral to kill your neighbor for working on the Sabbath? No. Is it moral to allow a rapist to marry his victim, if the rapist agrees to pay the victim’s father an amount of silver? No.
            If you are talking about another God, I would have to take a look at what you are calling the evidence of It’s existence. But, I haven’t seen ANY evidence of ANY God. I see things that I don’t know the answer to and not knowing the answer isn’t God.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Well, I don’t really disagree with you. I’m talking more about a god, in general, than any specific version.

          • Giraffe-Junk

            If you are talking about another God, I would have to take a look at what you are calling the evidence of It’s existence. But, I haven’t seen ANY evidence of ANY God. I see things that I don’t know the answer to and not knowing the answer isn’t God.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Agreed. I think you can’t either disprove or prove the existence of any god, which is why I kind of make it a point to say “a god” rather than “God” in conversations like this. If you capitalize it, you’re usually talking about the Judeo-Christian God, or something similar.

          • Giraffe-Junk

            I think you misunderstand, of course you can disprove ANY god, just let me see the evidence. If you think differently then disprove fairies, leprechauns, unicorns, etc. By the way, I put a capital “G” on the word “god” when I am talking about any deity, like Zeus, Osiris, etc. as they are all on equal standing with the Judeo-Christian God.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Yeah, I see what you’re saying now, you can disprove a certain version of God that particular claims are made about. Fair enough. What I’m saying is really that I think you can neither prove nor disprove that any sort of god at all exists.

          • Giraffe-Junk

            But, then couldn’t you say that about any imaginary thing? You can neither prove nor disprove big foot or anything (imaginary) at all either exists or doesn’t. So, in that case, we should look for the evidence of this god’s existence. Remember, however, that those things that you don’t understand are not proof of this god’s existence. In other words, I don’t understand how the Universe came to be or how life actually got started, but not knowing isn’t proof of a god’s existence, it’s proof that I don’t understand (and may never) those things. So, without this (supposed) god interfering and showing us direct proof as well as us unable to see proof, we can assume that even if it exists, it is uncaring in our lives, and thus not worthy of worship.
            So, on that note, what’s if billions and billions of years ago a intelligent species created a black hole (think large Hadron collider) and after billions of years this black hole decimated the Universe and every living being in it, then once everything was “inside” the black hole a “big bang” occurred and billions of years later, here we are. Are those intelligent beings (whom are no longer in existence) our god? Are they worthy of worship (even though they don’t exist)? Can you disprove this?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “But, then couldn’t you say that about any imaginary thing?”

            Yeah, exactly. It’s like the “Russel’s Teapot” thing. You can’t prove or disprove that there’s a teapot orbiting between Earth and Mars, but I still don’t believe in it. That’s the way I feel about a god. I don’t think that because one can’t disprove something is a good enough reason to believe in it.

          • Giraffe-Junk

            I totally get what you are saying, but by saying you can’t prove or disprove a god is totally incorrect, because again we would have to see the evidence for it’s existence. To ponder that we can or cannot prove or disprove every single (far-fetched) idea a person can ponder, no matter how outrageous is ridiculous on it’s face, as we just need the evidence to determine it. i.e. “Russel’s Teapot” is possible to prove or disprove, we just need to put cameras in orbit to see if there is or isn’t a teapot (i.e. examine the evidence). Why give credence that a god “might” possibly exist, when you one does not?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Because I don’t know that one does not. I guess I’m just more of an agnostic than you, when it comes down to it.

          • Giraffe-Junk

            “Because I don’t know that one does not.” Are you seeing evidence of it’s existence? If you are, are you sure it’s not just a misunderstanding of how nature works or something that humans just haven’t figured out? If you are not seeing any evidence, then why give credence of a possibility when you have no known evidence? If you “want” there to be a god, due to fear of the unknown (death), then fooling yourself into “believing” that the possibility is there won’t make it true.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            No, I don’t personally see any evidence, that’s why I’m not a believer. I just don’t think I can say that I know there’s no god of any sort. Also, there’s so many different definitions of what a god is, it’s almost a meaningless question anyway.

          • Giraffe-Junk

            So, you haven’t seen evidence of fairies either, are you agnostic about them? What about leprechauns, don’t believe, but just not willing to say that there aren’t any leprechauns of any sort?
            There is only a definition of god, there are just a bunch of people who change that definition to be able to answer the question, “do you believe in god?”, in the affirmative. In fact, I new a man with a highly religious mother (she bought a Christian bookstore) and we were talking one day and he affirms that he doesn’t believe in God. Well, months later, he states something to a belief in God. I question him about his contradictory statement, and he says, well, God is the “big bang”. The definition of God (or god) didn’t change, he changed the definition, to appease his mother.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Maybe God is a fairy leprechaun! No, just kidding….lol

            God is the big bang? Well, that’s kind of the ‘pantheism’ thing there…basically that god is the universe, or vice versa. That’s kinda what I’m talking about, I feel like if someone asks me if I believe in God, I should ask them to define God first. (or I’d just say no)

          • Giraffe-Junk

            “I feel like if someone asks me if I believe in God, I should ask them to define God first. (or I’d just say no)” So, that is what I see as part of the problem, is that people redefine “god” and then when asked if they believe in god? The person being questioned can say “yes, I believe”. But the person receiving the answer isn’t asking if they believe that the “big bang” (as in my previous example) happened, they are asking “Do you believe in the Christian God?”
            So, the point I am trying to make is that most people asking, “Do you believe in God?” are really asking “Do you believe in the Christian God?” People who answer, know that what the “real” question is, but don’t want to be called an “atheist” or ostracized by friends/relatives/co-workers, so they redefine god and answer in the affirmative.
            At first this doesn’t appear to be more than not being ostracized or just ensuring that you don’t hurt other’s feelings. However, this is much maligned we shouldn’t be confirming (feigning) belief in things that couldn’t be true to people whom would, due to those same beliefs, ostracize, distrust, or worse to innocent people, because they do not share the same delusion.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “So, the point I am trying to make is that most people asking, “Do you
            believe in God?” are really asking “Do you believe in the Christian
            God?””

            Yeah, that is true. The Christian one or some other mostly similar version, anyway.

          • gogo0

            that’s not proving god doesn’t exist though, that would just be examples of it being a lying jerk

          • Giraffe-Junk

            Well then He’s not worthy of the title God, is He?

          • gogo0

            nah, i think its okay. there are plenty of fables of jerk gods throughout history

          • Giraffe-Junk

            Yeah, I have to give you that…

          • gogo0

            no one is trying to disprove god’s existence because god’s existence has yet to be proven in the first place.

          • Giraffe-Junk

            That’s not exactly true, lot’s and lot’s of people believe in it’s existence, we need to open their eyes to the impossibilities, before they blow themselves up or ram an airplane into a building.

        • Imma Commenter

          What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

    • Giraffe-Junk

      No one is stopping ANY student from making ANY choice. However, that choice shouldn’t be made for the student by the public school system. It should be between the student and his/her family and church (if any) of choice.

      • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

        Students were running it, but pastors were ALLOWED to visit and the atheist still complained.

        • Rookheight

          pastors were, by their own admission, allowed to LEAD the clubs. Even after being caught, they didn’t deny that they regularly attended the clubs, which also violates federal law.

          • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

            If the group ALLOWED them to lead than it was permissible as perhaps the students were seeking guidance. And no its not illegal under Federal Law.

          • Rookheight

            Here’s what the Equal Access Act has to say: “nonschool persons may not direct, conduct, control, or regularly attend activities of student groups.” 20 U.S.C. § 4071. Yes, it is illegal under federal law.

          • Giraffe-Junk

            Further, if they don’t like the law, you get with your government representative to see about getting the law changed, not violate it.

    • Cady555

      Wrong. The law makes sure that school employees and outside adults do not interfere. The law makes sure that students have freedom to run the show.

  • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

    “Both youth leaders and schools are aware of the sensitive nature under which these things operate and need to be extra vigilant about rules governing separation of church and state,” he said.
    “Just understand,” he should have added, “You’re not free in your own country. You must bow to the religion established by the state for the atheists or face their wrath.”

    • Imma Commenter

      You can study your fairytales in church, at home, at a relatives house, at a friend’s house, in a park or pretty much wherever you want as long as it’s separate from government. Public schools are a government entity.

      • Cady555

        Although clubs outside of instruction hours are fine. Secondary schools tend to have dozens of clubs on all sorts of topics.

        If a school allows clubs, it cannot discriminate based on religion or religious views. Bible studies, prayer groups, etc. are fine. An atheist or humanist club would also be fine. In both cases, students have to run it. A teacher can be a sponsor and chaperone. Outsiders can be invited to speak. However the club must be led and organized by the students. This is not a difficult standard to meet.

    • Giraffe-Junk

      Of course you are free, no one is stopping anyone from any religion (or lack of religion) they so choose. But, school officials shouldn’t be making (or by virtue of leading school children, appearing to favor one religion over another) that choice should be made by parents and most importantly, the children themselves.

    • Cady555

      The Federal law specifically permitting student religious clubs was written by Christians. They have to be run by students. How is your freedom impacted by a law written by Christians that gives christian students authority to run a christian club?

      • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

        Whachew smokin?

        • Cady555

          Whatever it was, facts are better.

          Google the Equal Access Act. It was passed in 1984. Christian groups fought for the law specifically to ensure that students could have lunch time and after school bible studies.

          As is common, the concept of “equal” came as a surprise when the law was later used by atheists and gay/straight alliances when schools tried to block non Christian clubs.

          But equal means equal. Students are free to form and join whatever clubs they wish.

          Text from the Equal Access Act:

          (c) Fair opportunity criteria. Schools shall be deemed to offer a fair opportunity to students who wish to conduct a meeting within its limited open forum if such school uniformly provides that—
          (1) the meeting is voluntary and student-initiated;
          (2) there is no sponsorship of the meeting by the school, the government, or its agents or employees;
          (3) employees or agents of the school or government are present at religious meetings only in a nonparticipatory capacity;
          (4) the meeting does not materially and substantially interfere with the orderly conduct of educational activities within the school; and
          (5) nonschool persons may not direct, conduct, control, or regularly attend activities of student groups.

        • Craig Reynolds

          No answer to Cady555?

          • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

            He/she didn’t say what he/she is smokin’.

  • Randy Wanat

    I would love to see the righteous indignation if it were Muslim students having imams lead prayers at lunch in a public school.

    • Imma Commenter

      The tolerant xtians would shout them down in a heartbeat.

      • Nidalap

        And the intolerant atheists, likely as not, would not…

        • Rookheight

          FFRF would most certainly treat the situation exactly as they would this one. Outside adults leading student religious clubs is illegal, and atheists don’t care which myth they are promoting.

        • gogo0

          those darn atheists, always picking on the faithful! leave those poor muslims alone!

    • Nidalap

      Actually, to be a parallel scenario, it would have to be a student Koran club. And if the parents were okay with their kids joining, it would be just fine! 🙂

    • C_Alan_Nault

      A Wiccan club would be nice to see at that school.

  • acontraryview

    Those poor kids. If only there were somewhere else they could study the bible.

    • Imma Commenter

      That seriously made me lol! Nicely done!

      • acontraryview

        Thanks.

    • Orion Jones

      “If only there were somewhere else they could study the bible.”

      You mean like special buildings where only Christians would congregate? Come on – that’s crazy talk. It would be totally impractical.- you’d need hundreds of thousands of them! Well, I suppose it could be done if they had special tax exemptions – but what sort of a country would allow that?

      • Frank Dorka

        How about anywhere in the whole country that is not sanctioned by public funds? Not enough places?

      • acontraryview

        LOL

  • Dio Jones

    more attacks on Christians… and more are coming…

    Always be a light that is .shininginthedark.

    • Imma Commenter

      There is no attack on xtians. These kids can group study the fairytale they’ve been indoctrinated into believing pretty much anywhere they want except in government institutions…like public schools during school hours.

      Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.

    • Giraffe-Junk

      When you cry persecution complex, it becomes the story of the boy who cried wolf. One day when the government forces you to stop going to church and stops private prayer in your own home out of fear of being jailed or worse and you cry “persecution”, will anyone listen?

      • Dio Jones

        In the last days scoffers will come… its okay, we expect more of you

        • Giraffe-Junk

          Harold, Harold Camping, is that you?

          • Dio Jones

            When the last breathe leaves your body, you had better be 150,000% sure… Jesus loves you and he died for you, but its up to you to accept or deny the gift… I pray before you die that you make the right choice…

          • Rookheight

            The same would be said by devout believers of all the other world religions. Are you petrified that you might be wrong about any one of them? Probably not, because you are extremely confidant that they are mistaken in their religious beliefs. That’s how atheists feel about Christianity.

          • Randy Wanat

            Yeah, and if you don’t die valiantly in battle, you’ll be barred from entering the great hall in Valhalla. So, you’d better be sure.

            How much time do you spend worrying about that? How about going to Muslim Hell? Hm? Would it be fair to say you give it no thought whatsoever? If so, you shouldn’t use Pascal’s wager, as it is equally compelling for ALL religions. Poor reasoning should never be presented as a reason to accept outlandish claims as true.

          • Giraffe-Junk

            “Poor reasoning should never be presented as a reason to accept outlandish claims as true.” Good statement.

          • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

            And you know theres no afterlife how?

          • Bob Johnson

            I think he wants to know which afterlife is real. After all every religion can make the same claim to being the one true way.

          • Randy Wanat

            I didn’t say that. But, there is no good reason to think there is any.

            How do you know there aren’t any leprechauns?

          • Cady555

            And what evidence do you have that there is anything after death? A 10,000 history of priests saying “I have inside information, now obey the king who lets me be a priest and hand over the best part of your harvest.” doesn’t count.

          • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

            Great question. In 2012 I had a major car accident and died in the hospital. I was looking down on my own body from the ceiling. I am getting ready to write a book on what i saw, but all I cal say is that I saw angels, demons, and a lot of other things. I will add one thing to this event, everything I saw when I was outside of my body was far more real than anything I saw here. I did hear a voice and knew it was the voice of God, how I knew I do not know, but I did.

          • Cady555

            Fair enough. One quibble, you were not dead. As Miracle Max said in The Princess Bride, mostly dead isn’t the same as all dead.

            I do not question your perceptions, however your experience is not evidence. It isn’t verifiable, and I would have to trust that a person’s reported experience isn’t influenced by the money to be made in book sales and speakers fees, or honor received from the religious community.

            Now if people all over the world, from different faith traditions, reported similar experiences then further investigation would be warranted. But even then, to provide evidence for life after death, people from different cultures and faith traditions should report identical experiences. And the experiences would have to be beyond what can be explained by brain activity.

            But instead, all the experiences only seem to confirm what the person believed going in.

          • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

            They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. ‘No father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them they will repent.’ He said to him ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if one rises from the dead. Luke 16:29-31.

          • Cady555

            One teeny tiny little problem – which rising from the dead story am I supposed to believe? Every religion past and present has a god who rose from the dead, a profit who ascended to heaven alive and/or followers with near death visions. Every one. What makes yours more reliable than all the others?

          • B1jetmech

            Bingo!

          • Giraffe-Junk

            I died and it was just like before I was born.

          • Giraffe-Junk

            So I should worship an omnipotent Being that didn’t know that the moon was a reflector, not a little light. a Being that didn’t know that women weren’t made from the rib of a man and that man wasn’t made from dirt. A Being that kills everyone, save eight, for everything turning out exactly the way He knew it would (otherwise He isn’t omnipotent and not worthy of the Title God). But, this Being, knowing that I would never choose to worship Him, still chose to “create” me and since I don’t accept Him and deny His very existence, He will allow me to be tortured forever and ever since He couldn’t save me from Himself. What a malevolent Being, unworthy of worship.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Pascal’s wager yet again. I like this one better, the Agnostic Atheism wager:

            “Whether or not you believe in God, you should live your life with
            love, kindness, compassion, mercy and tolerance while trying to make the world a better place. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and
            will have made a positive impact on those around you. If there is a
            benevolent God reviewing your life, you will be judged on your actions
            and not just on your ability to blindly believe, when there is a
            significant lack of evidence of any one god’s existence.”

          • Dio Jones

            You can only go to heaven by way of Jesus and his sacrifice… be as good as you want, for God judges the inward man…

          • Giraffe-Junk

            Would you worship a person whom kills everyone, save eight? I wouldn’t, my moral values are to high for that.

          • Craig Reynolds

            “God judges the inward man.”? Then how can you state “You can only go to heaven by way of Jesus”? Among the faithful, billions would agree with your first posit but balk for various religious reasons at the second. At least for the faithful, make up something that evenly applies.

          • gogo0

            see, what TheKingOfRhye posted was saying to be good and live a life full of compassion, kindness, and mercy WITHOUT the expectation of a any reward after death (or more notably, without the threat of eternal punishment).
            he doesn’t care about heaven/hell because he doesn’t believe in heaven/hell, but he will live as good a life as he can anyway.

    • Cady555

      This federal law was written by Christians to protect Christians.

      Newsflash – it is not persecution to expect Christians to obey a law they wrote.

      Christian clubs, and religious clubs of all sorts, are legal. But students have to run them – as specified in the law written by Christians.

    • Randy Wanat

      Why do you consider equal treatment under the law an attack?

    • C_Alan_Nault

      Attack on Christians? Hardly. Is anyone preventing Christians from celebrating their faith in their homes or at their houses of worship?

      It is the position of some theists that their right to freedom of religion is abridged when they are not allowed to violate the rationalists’ right to freedom from religion. ~James T. Green

      I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge

      • Dio Jones

        Funny the atheist groups can meet in school, oh and the satanists can too..

        • Rookheight

          Not if outside adults are leading the clubs. The same rules apply.

        • C_Alan_Nault

          Rookheight answered Dio Jones before I could.

  • awareoftruth

    I wonder why so many people are threatened by a book? The bible- and/or portions of it are published in over 2000 languages around the globe. It’s a classic. Fairy tale or divine wisdom- it’s up to the reader to decide. Are people seriously complaining about kids being encouraged to read/study? I’m more concerned about the threat of censorship. Any society is easier to control when access to knowledge and choices are taken away. The words “Separation of Church and State” are no where in the US Constitution…just saying.

    • Cady555

      No one is objecting to the club. They are objecting to outsiders taking over the club.

      • awareoftruth

        FFRF is requesting the clubs be dissolved based on a possible technicality. Are there witnesses to outside leadership actually happening on school grounds or during school hours? Are students allowed to ask or seek expert opinion about the material they are reading? For example, are they forbidden to get the advice from non-school sources (such as a public librarian) during non-school hours on how to effectively structure a meeting or discuss material? Do the laws of leadership apply to all book clubs, or just books with the title “Bible”? I really don’t know the answer. I also wonder how much of the school(s) is state vs. federal funding? Lots to think about.

        • Cady555

          It’s not that complicated. If the existing club was formed by a church – which is how the church bragged about it on facebook, the kids need to restructure the by laws and organization to make it clear that students are running it. Thus dissolve and re establish it.

          The law says outside adults “may not direct, conduct or regularly attend meetings.” So, yeah, they can talk to librarians. Sheesh.

          Google “Equal Access Act.” The law applies to all “non curriculum” clubs. Christianity and bible aren’t mentioned, altho the authors of the bill were Christians intending to protect student bible studies.

          • awareoftruth

            I am familiar with the Equal Access Act and the history behind it. However, I wasn’t aware the church was bragging about forming school bible clubs on their facebook page. Really? I’m only familiar with the accusations against the church website. I don’t actually find any of this complicated- my perspective just appears to be different than yours. It’s the big picture that concerns me. Please don’t interpret my frustration as anything personal. I read this article and now I keep thinking, “thin skins and hardened hearts”. But good for the person that spied and tattled on the bible group. I’ve said my part. I wish you the best.

          • Cady555

            Thanks. The perpetual victimhood by some christians gets old.

            The FFRF is protecting the kids’ rights to exercise religious belief without interference from adults, which is exactly what the law says. Their letter does not say “disband the clubs.” It says to the effect “if necessary, disband the adult run clubs and have the kids set up student led clubs.” Big difference.

            The FFRF protects equal treatment. Christians have had special treatment for so long that they see it as an attack, but they really do apply the same standards to all views, including atheism. No protestant Christian sends their child to school hoping teachers will teach their child to be Catholic, Mormon, Muslim or Atheist. Well the rest of us feel exactly the same. We don’t appreciate school employees leading our kids in prayers in Jesus’ name. We really do want a situation where every single school kid can follow their own religious beliefs and practices.

    • Randy Wanat

      Ignoring SCOTUS case law doesn’t make your argument better.

    • C_Alan_Nault

      People aren’t threatened by the book. We are threatened by the people who believe the book and who then try to have laws & legislation changed to reflect their beliefs, force their beliefs onto others because of what their book says, think their beliefs should be given special status so they can ignore the Constitution & have their beliefs presented in public schools ( but only THEIR beliefs, not the beliefs of Hindus or Wiccans, or Muslims, or Buddhists, or etc etc) and have their faith-based beliefs taught in science classes.

    • gogo0

      i wonder why so many people threaten others with that book

  • Shane Egan

    I can only hope that should this occur again that the Satanic Church’s children starts a club in the school and invites some outside speakers. I wonder how ‘tolerant’ the Christians fighting for their freedoms would be then? Christians are hypocrites so much of the time, hiding behind pretences because they know they can no longer just dictate which books to burn.

  • Frank Dorka

    If they weren’t in the wrong, they wouldn’t have halted it.

    • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

      If Bush was in the right, we wouldn’t have invaded Iraq. Our government not only constantly violates the Constitution, it violates International Law as well.

  • delialoudon

    If students want to read the Bible they CAN, it is not against the law. I hope they know they can counter-sue whoever it was that is trying to destroy the rights of students!!

    • Rookheight

      Nobody is trying to destroy the rights of students, and you can’t “counter-sue” anybody when you haven’t been sued to begin with.

    • TheKingOfRhye

      “If students want to read the Bible they CAN, it is not against the law.”

      Absolutely true. I’m still trying to find where in the story someone was trying to stop students from reading the Bible, though….hmmm.

      • Jolanda Tiellemans

        Couldn’t find it either.

  • archaeologist

    Why are people in Wisconsin sticking their noses in affairs of the people of ohio? atheist just do not know their boundaries and need to learn to mind their own business.

    • Rookheight

      There was a local complainant, and FFRF has a chapter in Ohio.

    • Cady555

      If you must blame someone, blame the Christians who wrote the Equal Access Act to protect the right of kids to form religious clubs and Ronald Reagan who signed the law. The FFRF is merely asking that the religious freedom protections of the EAA be enforced.

  • Mr JCS

    When do atheists NOT complain?
    It’s the Madalyn Murray O’Hair Syndrome.
    Her son William Murray (who became a Christian) described his mother as “out of sorts with the world” – and also said that every atheist he ever met was the same way.

    • Rookheight

      In the case of FFRF, they don’t complain when federal laws aren’t being broken. Is that bar really so high?

    • C_Alan_Nault

      We don’t complain when theists aren’t trying to force their beliefs onto us or when theists aren’t trying to get special concessions because of their beliefs.

      Since theists never seem to stop trying to force their beliefs onto others & never seem to stop trying to get special concessions, atheists never seem to stop complaining.

    • Craig Reynolds

      Suggest you look at the many available accounts and statements of people who discarded the labels of faith before you make a comfortable assumption based on the opinions of one person. Freethought and skepticism have a history in this world going back Centuries. For an easy start, you could look up Phyllis Diller and Thomas Edison (“So far as religion of the day is concerned, it is a damned fake… Religion is all bunk.)

  • plains-rabbit

    Atheists are nothing but a whine club. The typical atheist in American is a single white male – someone with no emotional attachments, an emotional retard. Why would we let people like that dictate to us?

    • Jolanda Tiellemans

      I’ll take it you’re a psychiatrist? Just asking.

      • Semp

        You need a referral?

    • TheKingOfRhye

      No emotional attachments?? Single people have friends and families and stuff like that, you know. And anyway, like a few others here have said, the law that covers this was made by Christians. In fact, given that the government is largely made up of Christians, probably just about all of our laws are.

    • Craig Reynolds

      “The typical atheist in American is a single white male – someone with no emotional attachments” – I’d invite you to any of the the meetings of skeptics and humanists and secularists and agnostics and freethinkers taking place in this area to disabuse you of this baseless opinion but I’m guessing you’re too far afield to contemplate encounterong a reality you’d rather not face.

  • sammy13

    Sure is a lot of fear.