Southern Baptist Convention Boots South Carolina Congregation for Affirming Homosexual Behavior

Augusta Heights-compressedNASHVILLE — The Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee has voted to remove a South Carolina congregation from fellowship due to its affirmation of homosexual behavior.

The Committee’s decision on Tuesday to remove Augusta Heights Baptist Church in Greenville was based on “public information provided by the church, which amounts to clear evidence of the church’s affirmation and approval of homosexual behavior.”

It was also considered that Greg Dover, who leads the congregation, “sought and acquired approval” from deacons to officiate a same-sex “wedding” in October. Leaders of Augusta Heights Baptist said that because the ceremony was not going to be held at the church, they would not stop Dover from officiating if he believed God wanted him to participate.

According to reports, Dover told the Committee in correspondence that Augusta Heights Baptist “does not have a marriage policy, or any official position or doctrinal statement on issues of homosexuality or same-sex marriage.” He also stated that the congregation “does not wish to end our relationship with the Southern Baptist Convention.”

However, Dover’s actions were found to be contrary to the Southern Baptist Constitution, which states that “churches which act to affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior would be deemed not to be in cooperation with the Convention.”

The congregation was therefore removed from fellowship “until such time as the convention determines that the church has unambiguously demonstrated its friendly cooperation with the convention as defined in the convention constitution.”

Augusta Heights Baptist had already been removed from fellowship with the Greenville Baptist Association and South Carolina Baptist Convention over the matter.

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“It is with great sorrow that The Church Relations Committee moves, as instructed by the Constitution and By-laws of the Greenville Baptist Association, that Augusta Heights Church be dismissed as a member of the Greenville Baptist Association unless the church repents and returns to the biblical position on marriage as being between a man and a woman,” the Greenville resolution read, which was agreed upon by 119 representatives of 45 churches in November.

Al Phillips, the director of missions for the Association, told the Baptist Courier that he would like to see the congregation restored to fellowship—but it must be willing to repent.

“Our goal is not to punish Augusta Heights but to hold her accountable,” he said. “Our deepest desire is to see the church repent and return to the biblical position of marriage as being between a man and a woman. But we must speak the truth in love.

“Our attitude is that of Christ. Jesus offered grace, but He required repentance. He confronted sin unflinchingly,” Phillips continued. “He knew we don’t really love sinners if we allow them to continue in harmful, self-destructive behavior without confronting them with the truth. We have tried to follow His example.”


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  • Quantz

    When are churches going to stop expecting homosexuals to “behave” like anything other than homosexuals, which is what they are?

    • Angel Jabbins

      If they are same sex attracted but working to live in obedience to God, remaining celebate…they are not in sin… no problem with them being in the church. If, on the other hand, if they are living in open rebellion against God by having sexual relationships with others of the same sex, they have not repented or surrendered their lives to Christ, and therefore, do not belong in the church.

      • Quantz

        Utter nonsense. If they are lesbian, they can only form lasting romantic relationships with other women. It has nothing to do with God or repentance. Let them fall in love as they do naturally.

        • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

          Exactly. I had always been taught that getting married was far preferable to just shacking up together. Why should the opposite be true for Gay couples?

          • Amos Moses

            Chucky, you are still NOT MARRIED…… How is the shacking up going?

          • gui1hermegano

            Given his trolling 24/7, I’d say the “marriage” is a matter of splitting the utility bills.

          • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

            If your “comment section” is only for preaching to the choir, why even have a “comment section” to begin with?

          • gui1hermegano

            Don’t stop posting, you’re a testament to how happy a homosexual’s life is – trolling.

          • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

            Calling someone a “troll” just because you disagree with him is kinda pathetic.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            OK “homo troll”! Feel better now?

          • Gott Mit Uns!

            If civil law is irrelevant regarding marriage, why do married couples go to a court of law to get a divorce?

          • Amos Moses

            Man has no authority to redefine what God has defined. Chucky can live in his little delusional world and all who want to think that way…… but it is no less delusion.

          • Gott Mit Uns!

            You have no authority to impose your religious beliefs on those who do not share them.

          • Amos Moses

            God created marriage. It is those who reject Him who are trying to impose their ideas on the rest of us…. take your own advice.

          • Gott Mit Uns!

            It is your religious belief that your deity created marriage, but that’s as far as it goes.

          • Amos Moses

            “It is your religious belief that your deity created marriage, but that’s as far as it goes.”

            And it is yours that He did not, but that as far as you go.

        • Amos Moses

          ” If they are lesbian, they can only form lasting romantic relationships with other women.It has nothing to do with God or repentance.”

          BINGO, EXACTLY…… and why they DO NOT belong in church.

          You are brilliant.

          • Quantz

            It is entirely your choice to belong to a bigot church. I have made a better, kinder, and healthier choice.

          • Amos Moses

            Christ is not of a mind that any would perish, but many cannot hear His words, for their own reasons.

            If you are caught committing a crime, and you are brought before the judge by a policeman, are they “bigoted” because you are wrong and they do not agree with you?

            Christ is the judge of this world, He does not want to prosecute those in defiance of His laws, But He will prosecute those in sin just as He has said he will.

            “I have made a better, kinder, and healthier choice.”

            i do not even know what that is supposed to mean, nor do i care.

    • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

      When God revokes his command to repent because the kingdom of heaven is near, then churches will stop calling people to righteousness out of the sin that consumes them. A sinner cannot behave like a saint without the power of Christ, whatever the flavor of his sin.

      • Quantz

        I elect to believe something far less offensive, restrictive and ridiculous. This is Christianity to you?

        • Amos Moses

          Then you choose delusion, have fun with that.

          • Quantz

            What you choose, sir, is hate. And I can SEE how much fun you have with that.

          • Amos Moses

            Sir, i do hate that you are in delusion and reject Christ. It is not fun to see people in that condition, it is sad. But they in delusion often do not realize they are, as they are deluded about even that.

          • Quantz

            I am not deluded, you are. You have chosen to believe that your hateful ways come from God. Only a devil would say what you are saying.

          • Amos Moses

            “I am not deluded, you are. You have chosen to believe that your hateful ways come from God. Only a devil would say what you are saying.”

            Sorry, you will have to be more specific. If you can support what you are contending with scripture, Gods word, then please have at it. Otherwise your words are empty.

          • Quantz

            And if scripture told you to take a gun and slaughter a village, would you do that too? Why am I even asking, of course you would.

          • Amos Moses

            Show me where it says we are to do this………………………

          • Quantz

            I do not take direction from ancient books of superstition, sorry. If you are daft enough to believe the word oh God would be anything that hateful and repugnant, you’re on your own.

          • Amos Moses

            Then why are you on a christian site? If it is so “repugnant” to you? Really, what do you have to offer anyone here that would be of interest?

          • Quantz

            Because it amuses me no end that you seriously think Jesus would any way endorse your brand of hateful crap.

          • Amos Moses

            Unlike yours?

          • Amos Moses

            “You have chosen to believe that your hateful ways come from God. Only a devil would say what you are saying.”

            “Because it amuses me no end that you seriously think Jesus would any way endorse your brand of hateful crap.”

            “I do not take direction from ancient books of superstition, sorry. ”

            So it is “superstition”, and you do not believe it, but you are here telling us about what it is, when clearly you do not know what it is……….

            But we are “hateful” and you are “loving” as demonstrated by your words above?

            And you said “I am not deluded, you are.”

            Oxymoron or Contradiction in Terms……………. Judges?

          • plains-rabbit

            Flagged.
            You need to move on.

          • Quantz

            If you feel the need to silence your opposition through censorship, you instantly lose the argument.

          • Michelle Evans

            Because of your refusal to prove Amos wrong by finding the Biblical scripture to prove yourself, you are admitting he is really right. But you’re using ancowardly excuse to not answer his question. Find the passage where your statement about shooting up villages..come on.

          • Quantz

            The Bible proves nothing. You’re using the wrong book if you want proof. You should be using a modern psychiatric text or something pertaining to mental health, and not a 2000 year old religious text. That’s your problem right there.

          • Michelle Evans

            Another excuse. That’s your problem.

          • Michelle Evans

            Enough about me Quantz..answer Amos’s question.

          • Quantz

            It’s a very GOOD excuse. So it’s YOUR problem.

          • Michelle Evans

            Yeah..whatever..smh

          • MamaBear

            But Southern Baptist made their decision based on the Bible. You are being judgmental yourself when you condemn a Christian church for following the Bible.

          • Quantz

            But they should not be basing their decision on the Bible, because the Bible is not a psychology text.

          • MamaBear

            Bwa-ha-ha

            You apparently do not even know what a Christian or a church is. Doctrine is based on the timeless Word of God, not ever-changing fallible psychology. Here is the Southern Baptist beliefs about the Bible:

            I. The Scriptures
            The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God’s revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.
            (Baptist Faith and Message -2000)

        • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

          You elect to believe falsehoods because you find them comforting, accommodating and respectable, but the wide and comfortable road leads to destruction. The gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. This is the teaching of Christ, after whom Christianity is named. You are not the first to find his teaching offensive, restrictive and ridiculous.

          • Quantz

            I don’t believe any falsehoods. I simply don’t believe in YOUR falsehood, and I refuse to condemn human beings over something they have absolutely no control over simply because my faith demands it. I don’t know why you blindly go along with that. I think that’s just awful.

          • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

            You are right that they have no control. Everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. If Christ sets you free, you will be free indeed.

          • Quantz

            Do you have control over the color of your eyes, Martin?

          • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

            If your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

    • Straight Shooter

      Let them attend a pro-gay church.

      Churches are free associations, they set their own rules, as any association does.

  • David & Jonathan

    More and more churches come to the conclusion that homosexuality has never been a sin, and that the whole issue is based on a willful misrepresentation of scripture by the Roman Catholic Church to get in its position of power in 390 after christ.

    Careful reading of OT reveals that S&G never was about homosexuality, and that Leviticus 18 and 20 only condemns same sex acts only within the context of Idolatry (just as Romans 1).

    Love God and Love your Neighbor. That is the constitution of the gospel. Those are the two commandments on which all other laws and prophets depend. They don’t exclude homosexuality, hence, homosexuality has never been a sin.

    Just as Jesus told us how to judge righteous: because no good fruit comes from a bad tree, and no bad fruit comes from a good tree. If a homosexual relationship brings good to the people involved (the couple and its environment), the good fruits of such relationship means that the relationship itself (the tree) must be good.

    • cadcoke5

      While some of the passages that condemn homosexuality involved with idolatry, there are many, in both the Old and New Testament that are blanket pronouncements of being an abomination. Furthermore, all descriptions of marriage, including by Jesus during his ministry on earth, point to man and woman.

    • Dio Jones

      I would be real careful, for God condemn those who say sin is okay just as much as he condemns those committing the sin… you are real close to heresy…

      • David & Jonathan

        Homosexuality has never been a sin. There is nothin heretic about that fact.

    • Frank Nolo

      You are wrong. What about this one:

      Deuteronomy 22:5 King James Version (KJV)

      “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.”
      That effectively outlaws transgenderism as well. In fact, this passage is my favorite of all those which I have read that deal with this specific topic, because it affirms that you cannot be a ‘woman’ trapped in the body of a man, and vice versa.
      What is your rebuttal for that one? Just another ‘false’ passage in the Bible?

      • David & Jonathan

        There are no false passages in the bible.

        I thought the discussion was about homosexuality, not transgenderism. Therefore your quote is not applicable to homosexuality.

        However, there is a strong reason that point to a different direction than you think.

        Your translation calls it an abomination. This is a half translation of the original word Toevah. Toevah is many times used in the bible, all with a clear idolatruous connotation. What could be idolatruous for a man wearing womans clothes? The priests of pagan babylon come to mind, a practice continued till today (we call them the Roman Catholic Church these days).

      • Amos Moses

        I find myself confused about how it is possible that high-heeled shoes, dresses, and lipstick are all tools of the patriarchy to oppress women and transform them into mere objects of male desire, yet it is considered necessary that men who transition to become women must wear high heels, dresses, and lipstick in order to “express themselves as women,” which would suggest that there is something innately feminine about these objects.

        But that cannot be the case if they are tools of masculinist oppression, unless femininity itself were an invention of the patriarchy with no basis in reality, which would mean it would be impossible to have a biological necessity to transition to being a woman, since femininity is not biological in nature at all, but political. If a dress, then, is oppressive by nature, should it not be discouraged among transitioned females just as much as among born females? Such would seem to be the case unless born females and transitioned females are different, but I am then reminded they are not!

        I realize now that marriage is an institution invented to enslave women and keep them from actualizing their career potential. Yet if marriage is an evil to straight women, why is it a right for gay men? Or, for that matter, for lesbians, who are, from what I am told, actually women, too?
        ————————————————-
        The New Sexual World Order Is So Confusing
        I would like to get on the right side of history regarding sex and gender, but I can’t figure out where it is.

        By George Fields

        • Frank Nolo

          A smart lawyer once told me something that helped solve the issue of gender. KISS, which stands for Keep It Simple Stupid.
          Sex and Gender is part of a much, much bigger picture. The persons who fail in this regards, often think IT IS THE PICTURE. There is a saying.
          The MEDIUM IS THE MESSAGE. The medium of sexuality, IS THE MESSAGE. Embrace it. Do not let is consume you. The woman is the greatest thing to ever happen to a man. The Man is the greatest thing to ever happen to a woman. Understanding you are part of a brotherhood or sisterhood, is also understanding your place in this world without regrets. Never have a regret about who you are and how you were born. You cannot have a regret about something you had no ability to control. Embrace it and rejoice in your body, as to regret its form is to regret life itself.

    • Frank Nolo

      What I find to be very funny, is that there is MASSIVE evidence in the Bible completely disputing the possibility of homosexuality. The mere description of the Trinity is confirmation that homosexuality is impossible. Then there are those that cling to Leviticus, Romans and other passages, but I rarely see anyone quote Deuteronomy 22:5 and other passages which I myself see as being much much stronger in terms of the logical invalidation of the homosexual ‘bi-polar’ theory. The brain is not bi-polar. There is a component of everyone’s sexuality that is rooted in a directional understanding of time which can never be overcome for those seeking to always travel forward rather than get stuck in eternal oscillation that confines you to the lower dimensions for eternity.
      To me, the Bible is absolutely unanimous on this topic, yet all I ever see is just a passage here and there put forward as the proof. Since the Bible confirms that the universe is both contracting and expanding at the same time, the Bible itself confirms that only a tri-polar universe can exist in this way without ‘cancelling itself out’ so thus the Bible affirms scientific truths far beyond the limited vision of persons who cannot find a way to ‘prove’ that they exist anymore than they could accept the existence of g-d as existing above them (and not below them).

    • Coach

      The axe is laid to the root. What you’re speaking of stems from humanism, not Christianity. You hate God and reject His Words , so you worship the god of your own imagination, that’s idolatry. God created them male and female and the only relationship that brings God glory is the marriage of a man and a woman. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah hated Lot for being a “judge over them”.

      To say there’s good fruit in a homosexual relationship is blasphemous. Repent of your wickedness and trust alone in Jesus Christ, He came to save the unrighteous, not the self-righteous who seek to justify sin and twist scripture to there own destruction.

      “A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God’s truth is attacked and yet would remain silent.”

      -John Calvin

  • Tom Hornbuckle

    They’re exactly right in removing this church from our fellowship

  • acontraryview

    Such a wonderful testament to the freedoms we enjoy in this great nation of ours.

    • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

      I’m sure the Augusta Heights Baptist Church will do just fine without SBC affiliation. I looked at their website, and they seem to be thriving. And they may actually gain some new member now.

      • gui1hermegano

        Absolutely.
        The membership figures for the gay-affirming churches show that any denomination that embraces homosexuality definitely experiences a change in membership. For example:

        Episcopalians
        1960: 3.2 million (1.8% of US population)
        2014: 1.8 million (0.66%)

        United Church of Christ
        1960: 2,056,000
        2014: 979,000
        More than half its members in 50 years.

        United Methodist
        1960: 11,026,000
        2009: 7,774,000

        Presbyterian Church USA
        1983 (year of their merger): 3.1 million
        2014: 1.6 million

        Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
        1987 (year of their merger): 5.2 million
        2013: 3.9 million

        Pretty impressive! It’s obvious that a church that includes homosexuals will change dramatically!

        • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

          And membership in the Southern Baptist Convention is on the decline as well.

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Thanks for posting that – I have been looking for the numbers on this phenomenon. God bless you!

          Of course, we know that as churches embrace more and more sins, they stand for nothing and fall for anything. Before you know it, their pews clear out. (see Western Europe, e.g.) I am actually surprised that apostate churches in America have retained as much dwindling membership as they have. Thank you again.

    • Amos Moses

      Yep, even those who profess to believe in God/Christ, but clearly do not, are free to say they do, and spread that lie……..sure is Wonderful aint it?

    • Straight Shooter

      Yep, free association of independent congregations, free to make their own rules.
      Go start a church that does not admit heterosexuals if you like.

    • no more mr. nice guy

      Not for long!

      • acontraryview

        Thanks for the update Chicken Little.

  • Reason2012

    “I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
    For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. “

    2 Timothy 4:1-4

  • Reason2012

    Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

    Homosexual behavior is most literally pointed out as a sin, and God has not changed on that regard. But if a person has those inclinations but does not act upon them, does not dwell in lust upon others, but is instead struggling against them to avoid them, then it’s not a sin. It’s just like sinful inclinations of any kind: it’s acting upon it when it becomes a sin.

    And this is what God says about sin and specifically the behavior of homosexuality:

    Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

    Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

    Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

    The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

    Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

    God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

    Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

    Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

    Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

    Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

    And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

    And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

    And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

    These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

    Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination …”

    Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

    Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

    Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

    1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

    1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

    2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

    And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

    Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

    Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

    And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

    Live forever, people – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world.

    May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

    • Paige Turner

      This is now the third time I have seen the same thing cut and pasted by you in as many days. Its very repetitious and adds no value to the conversation.

      No one is reading it.

      • Amos Moses

        i did.

        • Paige Turner

          Good for you. Very clever.

      • no more mr. nice guy

        Except you!

        • Paige Turner

          Sadly for you, it shows you to be a sheep without original thought or ideas.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Look at your humanoid face.

          • Paige Turner

            Im just your average, Breibart reader. This is what we look like.

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      That is a very thorough exegesis – thanks for putting the time in to post it. God bless!

      • Reason2012

        Glad it was a blessing. His Word always is! May God bless as well!

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Keep up the great work – your posts are fantastic and will surely be rewarded!

      • Quantz

        It was completely absurd.

  • Dio Jones

    Light has no fellowship with darkness… Here come the “Do not Judge” commandos…

    Always be a light that is .shininginthedark.

  • WorldGoneCrazy

    Well, that is just good loving church discipline – administered beautifully by the SBC. If this individual church desires to separate themselves from the SBC’s doctrine and practice, as it appears, the SBC must acknowledge that free will and grant them their request by making the separation complete, just as those individuals who, of their own free will, are determined to separate themselves from God for Eternity are granted that allowance. It would be unloving to do otherwise.

    “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.” ― C.S. Lewis

    • Quantz

      “Loving” LOL

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Your parents never disciplined you out of love? That might explain a lot.

        • Quantz

          Out of love? Sure. But never bigotry or hate.

          • Reason2012

            Glad you realize them standing on truth is out of love. Just because you reject the truth doesn’t make it any less true and hence any less out of love.

            When unrepentant sinners end up in_hell, they’ll realize the ones who TRULY cared for them were those who risked their hatred to warn them, and they’ll also realize their enemies – the ones who were truly hateful – were the ones that helped convince them they’ll be fine: keep sinning all you want.

          • Quantz

            It’s funny how some of you evangelicals use the word TRUTH. It’s never truth in the dictionary sense, but some aspect of your faith that you’ve been TOLD is true.

            I don’t reject truth. When I know it’s true, I accept it. When it’s truth masquerading as hate, I call it out instead. As I am doing now.

          • BravesFan

            Disagreement =/= hate.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Pure projection on your part.

          • Quantz

            Not at all. If you were loving about this you wouldn’t be punishing people for love.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            More projection on your part. You seem to confuse disciplining a church that is violating SBC rules with “hate.” Based on that “logic,” a parent who disciplines a child for violating family rules is also engaging in hate. I pray you are never a parent.

          • Quantz

            If a daughter of mine came to me one day and confessed that she was a lesbian, I wouldn’t scold her or try to change her in the hopes of appeasing some tyrannical creator God. I would tell her I love her and accept her as she is, and hope she would find a loving partner who makes her happy.

            From that standpoint, I hope to never be a parent like you.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Complete strawman. Address the previous post I made, please – not divert and shift the goalposts.

            Besides, you won’t ever be a parent like me: based on your abortion position, you will kill your daughter in utero. Perhaps you already have.

          • Quantz

            I would say the church being disciplined was in the right. The discipline should have gone the other direction. Because the SBC church IS upholding hate here. So it’s not a shifting of the goalposts in any way – it all ties in. If in this day and age you are so backwards that you cannot accept that there are homosexuals in this world and they should be allowed to live life as such, you’re oppressing and you’re hating. I mean, a 5-year old could see that, I don’t know what your excuse is.

            And no, pretty hard to kill a child in utero when I’m a man. I might suggest re-titling yourself to just the last five letters of your current name.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “I would say the church being disciplined was in the right.”

            It doesn’t matter what you think: you are not the SBC. You have no authority. Mind your own business. 🙂

            “Because the SBC church IS upholding hate here.”

            Prove it. Prove that adhering to SBC doctrine is upholding hate. For you, “hate” is when someone else has an opinion different from yours. Put on your big girl pants, excuse me, big boy pants, and get over it.

            “If in this day and age you are so backwards that you cannot accept that there are homosexuals in this world and they should be allowed to live life as such”

            Strawman, as that has absolutely nothing to do with the SBC decision. You should take a course in reading comprehension.

            “And no, pretty hard to kill a child in utero when I’m a man.”

            I guess you have never heard of male abortionists. 🙂 You are really not too swift – still in high school?

            I am sorry that I did not recognize you as a male – your whining is more indicative of a childish girl.

            “I hope for your sake you don’t seriously go through life suggesting to people who are pro-choice that they must have had abortions.”

            You almost act as though there is something wrong with abortions. If you want to knock off your pre-born daughter, that is fine, on your view, right?

          • Quantz

            “It doesn’t matter what you think: you are not the SBC. You have no authority. Mind your own business. :-)”

            And it doesn’t matter what the SBC says because they aren’t lawmakers for the rest of us. They have no authority. So shut your mouth. 🙂

            “Prove it”

            No problem. From the article: “He knew we don’t really love sinners if we allow them to continue in harmful, self-destructive behavior without confronting them with the truth.”

            Let’s see. Looks like hate, sounds like hate, smug use of the word “truth” when they’re talking about an opinion…hm. Well, maybe you’re right. It’s MORE than hate. It’s bigotry.

            “Strawman, as that has absolutely nothing to do with the SBC decision.”

            Allowing homosexuals to live lives unmolested by religious bigots and zealots is the issue here. The SBC had demonstrated an inability to do that, clearly, so no, this is not a strawman. Do you know what a strawman is? I’m guessing not.

            “I guess you have never heard of male abortionists. 🙂 You are really not too swift – still in high school?”

            Let’s revisit what you said: ” based on your abortion position, you will kill YOUR DAUGHTER in utero. Perhaps you already have.”

            Wow. Can I just ask quickly, how did you, of all the members of your family, get hit hardest with the moron gene?

            ” If you want to knock off your pre-born daughter, that is fine, on your view, right?”

            No, not something I’d personally ever do. But then, it’s really not my place to obnoxiously get in the faces of people, complete strangers, whose life experiences are at complete variance to my own, and tell them how to run their lives. Evidently, that’s your gig. Good luck with it! God bless!

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “because they aren’t lawmakers for the rest of us”

            You are coming unhinged, Quantz – just where do you see the SBC making laws for all of us?!? Have you been drinking again?

            “They have no authority.”

            They do over their denomination, silly girl. 🙂

            “So shut your mouth.”

            Temper, temper. We can get you counseling for that. 🙂

            “He knew we don’t really love sinners if we allow them to continue in harmful, self-destructive behavior without confronting them with the truth.”

            That’s precisely what a good parent thinks too! No surprise that you were poorly parented. Most pro-aborts were.

            “It’s MORE than hate. It’s bigotry.”

            Says the hateful bigot – without proof I might add. Do you know Val?!? 🙂 You do engage in projection so well, after all.

            “Allowing homosexuals to live lives unmolested by religious bigots and zealots is the issue here. The SBC had demonstrated an inability to do that”

            How so? Where did the SBC force gays to live certain lives or molest them? (And when it comes to molesting, …) Gays are not being forced to be a part of the SBC, are they?

            “” based on your abortion position, you will kill YOUR DAUGHTER in utero. Perhaps you already have.””

            You don’t think abortionists operate on their own family members? And, if you have signed off on the killing, you are just as guilty of moral murder as if you do the killing yourself. In fact, if you drove your girlfriend to the clinic (I’m assuming you don’t have a wife – for obvious reasons), then you are an accomplice to moral murder, or, if you prefer, crimes against humanity.

            “No, not something I’d personally ever do.”

            That’s what many people said about slavery – all while those black people were being whipped and all. “I wouldn’t personally own a black person, but that cotton plantation owner does not need his life run by others.” How “compassionate” of you. Who is the hater again?!? 🙂

            “God bless!”

            There is no need to bring Someone into the conversation that you do not know from the devil. 🙂

            I’m enjoying our dialogue – thanks for playing!

          • Quantz

            “Temper, temper. We can get you counseling for that. :-)”

            And none for yourself? Remarkable.

            “That’s precisely what a good parent thinks too! No surprise that you were poorly parented. Most pro-aborts were.”

            No, a good parent doesn’t think a homosexual relationship is harmful or self-destructive, because they aren’t. Well, they might be, but if they are it’s got nothing to do with sexual orientation. The SBC should be ashamed of itself for a statement like that, they should be apologizing en masse. But you think this is a “good parent” statement. If you had “good parents” that thought this way it would explain a few things.

            “Says the hateful bigot – without proof I might add.”

            Their statement was all the proof I need, and I haven’t engaged in hate NOR bigotry. Nice try. We have some lovely parting gifts.

            “How so? Where did the SBC force gays to live certain lives or molest them?”

            That statement speaks volumes, and if they’re indoctrinating their members with that kind of garbage when those people might have gay or lesbian children, then yes, they are doing very real damage.

            “And, if you have signed off on the killing, you are just as guilty of
            moral murder as if you do the killing yourself. In fact, if you drove
            your girlfriend to the clinic (I’m assuming you don’t have a wife – for
            obvious reasons), then you are an accomplice to moral murder, or, if you
            prefer, crimes against humanity.”

            As it happens, I have never engaged in abortion, nor has my wife, but we don’t tell other people what they can or can’t do with their bodies. Does THAT make me an accomplice to moral murder, oh deranged one?

            “That’s what many people said about slavery”

            No idea where this bizarre non-sequitur came from, but you can have it back because it’s unrelated. So, for that matter, is abortion. This topic is about the SBC and their stone age view of homosexuality. I’m not interested in engaging you on every one of your pet insecurities, because the list is probably enormous.

            “There is no need to bring Someone into the conversation that you do not know from the devil. :-)”

            But of course YOU know him. And you alone. In fact, based on conversations I’ve had with people like you, I’ll bet he’s your personal lord and savior, right? Funny, that – I was always taught Jesus was for everyone. Evangelicals are so funny! 🙂

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “No, a good parent doesn’t think a homosexual relationship is harmful or self-destructive, because they aren’t. Well, they might be”

            Yes, thank you for self-correcting there – I was about to break out the CDC data that shows all of the special ways in which same sex relationships are more destructive than opposite sex ones. I appreciate your intellectual honesty in conceding that point.

            “The SBC should be ashamed of itself for a statement like that”

            It really irks you that there are some denominations and people who do not affirm gay “marriage,” doesn’t it? I thought you were the “tolerant” one?

            “I haven’t engaged in hate NOR bigotry”

            Sure you have: you hate denominations and people who do not affirm gay marriage. Any reasonable person would see that.

            No reply to the fact that the SBC has authority over its denomination, nor that the SBC is not forcing gays to live a certain way. If gays do not desire to be a part of the SBC, no one is forcing them too. Pretty simple actually.

            Besides, there are plenty of denominations that ignore the Bible and embrace homosexual behavior as acceptable – the Episcopal Church, being the more radical departure from orthodoxy and orthopraxy. (Not to be confused with the Charismatic Episcopal Church, which I enjoy attending from time to time.)

            “but we don’t tell other people what they can or can’t do with their bodies”

            Based on that “logic,” you would repeal laws against rape, pedophilia, and murder because you “don’t tell other people what they can or can’t do with their bodies.”

            “Does THAT make me an accomplice to moral murder”

            Hmm, probably not – good point. You are certainly an advocate for it, however, since you believe it should be legal. That’s bad enough.

            “No idea where this bizarre non-sequitur came from”

            You said: “”No, not something I’d personally ever do.””

            That applies to all kinds of morally repugnant activities, including slavery, rape, pedophilia, burglary, murder, etc. You should re-visit the “not me personally, but it’s OK for other people” line of thinking. It has a long history of human rights abuses.

            “This topic is about the SBC and their stone age view of homosexuality”

            Fair enough. But, it seems that the CDC and other secular peer-reviewed sources agree with the SBC that homosexual behavior is destructive – physically and psychologically. So, perhaps it is your view that is stone age?

            “I was always taught Jesus was for everyone.”

            Well, you were taught wrong. Because Jesus talked a lot about separating the wolves form the sheep, the chaff from the wheat, etc. And, He also talked more about Hell than anyone else in the Bible. Yes, He desires all to come to a saving relationship with Him, but He knows that many will not. Those who do not are actually His enemies, even though He loves His enemies and taught us to do the same.

            So, I’m not actually sure about your worldview – I would be interested in hearing it – but if you are Christian, then you would be very interested in what Christ has to say, no?

            “Evangelicals are so funny!”

            I actually AM known for my sense of humor – thanks! 🙂

            I’m starting to like you more and more, Quantz, even as I disagree with you. Have a great night, if I don’t reply until tomorrow!

          • Quantz

            “No, a good parent doesn’t think a homosexual relationship is harmful or self-destructive, because they aren’t. Well, they might be”

            “Yes, thank you for self-correcting there – I was about to break out the CDC data that shows all of the special ways in which same sex relationships are more destructive than opposite sex ones. I appreciate your intellectual honesty in conceding that point.”

            Well, you can give yourself a good swift kick in your smug, self-congratulatory butt, because you’re reading what you want to read and not what I actually said. Which is that ANY relationship can be harmful of self-destructive, but not based on a person’s sexuality. If one person, for example, follows brutal and archaic religious beliefs, such as those found in Evangelical Christianity, and the other person in the relationship does not, I can see how it might cause friction.

            “It really irks you that there are some denominations and people who do not affirm gay “marriage,” doesn’t it? I thought you were the “tolerant” one?”

            Yes, isn’t it funny that in a day and age where science and mental health organizations worldwide are saying over and over that sexual orientation isn’t a disease, that organizations like yours continuously try to find “cures” for it? I’m on the side of science in that one which IS the tolerant camp. You have a very interesting way of reframing your hateful intolerance and calling it “loving” – well, you’d come across far more loving if you’d allow them to fall in love naturally and let them be happy rather than insist they follow your barbaric superstition. But I guess your 2000 year old book knows better than modern science and psychology, right? Thought you were a scientist, by rights you should be right on board with this.

            “Sure you have: you hate denominations and people who do not affirm gay marriage. Any reasonable person would see that.”

            What I hate is hate. If you don’t affirm gay marriage, and there’s no reason for you not to, you’re the hateful one. No matter how you try to turn it around. What you seem to have a real hard time with is minding your own business.

            “No reply to the fact that the SBC has authority over its denomination, nor that the SBC is not forcing gays to live a certain way.”

            No one’s denying that they have authority over their denomination, but that doesn’t make their hateful teachings right or acceptable.

            “Besides, there are plenty of denominations that ignore the Bible and embrace homosexual behavior as acceptable”

            Ignoring the Bible, or just getting in line with modern medicine? The Bible’s been proven wrong about many things. Including this, but you don’t want to acknowledge it. Nearly all the mental health organizations in the world affirm this, but you continue to call it sin. Well, when you continue to hold fast to incorrect information in the face of evidence to the contrary, what you have is bigotry. There’s simply no other word to use. So if the shoe fits…

            “Based on that “logic,” you would repeal laws against rape, pedophilia, and murder because you “don’t tell other people what they can or can’t do with their bodies.”

            No, because these are living human beings not involved in consensual choices. That’s how the law sees it and that’s how reasonable people see it.

            “You are certainly an advocate for it, however, since you believe it should be legal. That’s bad enough.”

            It’s your way or the highway, why don’t you just say it that way?

            “You said: “No, not something I’d personally ever do.” That applies to all kinds of morally repugnant activities, including slavery, rape, pedophilia, burglary, murder, etc. You should re-visit the “not me personally, but it’s OK for other people” line of thinking. It has a long history of human rights abuses.”

            That’s a rather bizarre leap of logic to make considering that I just happen to disagree with you on a woman’s right to choose. Not knowing every woman’s own situation, which would be impossible, does not make me a proponent of all those illegal and immoral activities you listed. It’s also very interesting to me that you care so much for the rights of the unborn but watch what happens when they are born and end up being homosexuals – you’ll be head cheerleader to send them into your lake of fire for eternity. Does that or does that not make you a hypocrite of the worst kind?

            “Fair enough. But, it seems that the CDC and other secular peer-reviewed sources agree with the SBC that homosexual behavior is destructive – physically and psychologically. So, perhaps it is your view that is stone age?”

            Would you like a list of heterosexual behavior that is equally destructive, if not more so? If you’d take a moment to think about this, you’d realize that there’s not a single activity homosexuals engage in that heterosexuals do not ALSO engage in. Would not the heterosexual spectrum of “perversions” be a lot broader?

            “Well, you were taught wrong. Because Jesus talked a lot about separating the wolves form the sheep, the chaff from the wheat, etc. And, He also talked more about Hell than anyone else in the Bible.”

            He also talked a lot about love, forgiveness, compassion and kindness. None of which is in evidence regarding your attitude towards homosexuals.

            “So, I’m not actually sure about your worldview – I would be interested in hearing it – but if you are Christian, then you would be very interested in what Christ has to say, no?”

            I am reminded of a quote from Gandhi: “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “but not based on a person’s sexuality”

            It sounds like you are denying what the CDC and other peer-reviewed medical citations say about the special physical and psychological destructive effects of homosexual behavior. You are free to be a science-denier, but you are not allowed to hatefully force your delusional myths on the rest of us.

            “What I hate is hate”

            Actually, you project your hatred toward truth and science on others, precisely because you lack self-awareness. You are a science-denier and truth hater, and a Christ-bigot. But, you do not recognize these things, because you cling to delusional myths which deny science.

            “If you don’t affirm gay marriage, and there’s no reason for you not to, you’re the hateful one.”

            You just proved, right there, that you are both intolerant and fascist. TYVM – you are converting many today. 🙂

            “What you seem to have a real hard time with is minding your own business.”

            Every atrocity in human history was justified on that claim – abortion, slavery, etc. You would have made a good slaver, science-denier and pro-abort that you are.

            “No one’s denying that they have authority over their denomination, but that doesn’t make their hateful teachings right or acceptable.”

            Did you know that the fact that you call something “hate” does not make it “hate?” Based on your definition of “hate,” anyone who disagrees with you is a “hater.” You should get out more, meet some real gay people, and get past your need to create victims where they aren’t, and, as in abortion, deny victims where they are.

            BTW, we saved another baby on the sidewalk yesterday, no thanks to you. Left up to you and your pals, that baby would be dead right now. Enjoy your Eternity in Hell.

            “Ignoring the Bible, or just getting in line with modern medicine?”

            The two line up quite well when it comes to the destructiveness of same sex behavior. You wish it didn’t, but it still does. Ticks you off, doesn’t it? 🙂

            “No, because these are living human beings not involved in consensual choices.”

            You mean, like preborn babies? 🙂 Thanks for serving up that softball!

            “That’s a rather bizarre leap of logic to make considering that I just happen to disagree with you on a woman’s right to choose. Not knowing every woman’s own situation, which would be impossible, does not make me a proponent of all those illegal and immoral activities you listed.”

            “That’s a rather bizarre leap of logic to make considering that I just happen to disagree with you on a slaveowner’s right to choose. Not knowing every slaveowner’s own situation, which would be impossible, does not make me a proponent of slavery.”

            See how that works, baby hater? You would have made a great slaver.

            You really are making this too easy for me, Quantz. On the plus side, you are providing good humor and entertainment for me while I do my taxes. 🙂

            “It’s also very interesting to me that you care so much for the rights of the unborn but watch what happens when they are born and end up being homosexuals – you’ll be head cheerleader to send them into your lake of fire for eternity.”

            No way – I love homosexuals so much that I let them know the dangers associated with their behavior. One of my kid’s uncles is gay, and I swim with lots of homosexual folks. So, that foam arrow didn’t actually hurt – but it did have me laughing. 🙂 You clearly don’t know any gay people or you would not mind walking all over their afflictions to get back at Christians.

            “Would you like a list of heterosexual behavior that is equally destructive, if not more so?”

            Fail. If it did, the CDC would not be pointing out the special risks associated with certain homosexual behavior. Do you actually KNOW anyone who is gay, Quantz? You seem to be remarkably ignorant of the lifestyle, and altogether callous toward their sufferings. Are you just mad at the CBC to get back at your parents or something?

            “He also talked a lot about love, forgiveness, compassion and kindness. None of which is in evidence regarding your attitude towards homosexuals.”

            Aaah, now I see it: you think “love” is affirming whatever behavior another person is engaged in. By that standard, you would watch your child about to step into the street and not warn them because it wouldn’t be “loving.” It’s a good thing you are not a parent – but no abortions please.

            So, you are just another ticked off atheist who is upset because of Jesus’ exclusive claims, and walking over the bodies of gay people to get back at your dad who was absent or abusive? I was an atheist too – 42 years. I feel your pain.

          • Quantz

            “It sounds like you are denying what the CDC and other peer-reviewed medical citations say about the special physical and psychological destructive effects of homosexual behavior.”
            No, I’m denying your USE of the CDC information. Quote mining is a cheap tactic. And anyway, you’re doing the exact same thing but with the REAL information provided from the American Psychological Association. For your edification: https://www.apa. org/topics/lgbt/orientation.pdf
            “You are free to be a science-denier, but you are not allowed to hatefully force your delusional myths on the rest of us.”
            Science denier? Delusional myths? See the link above.
            “Actually, you project your hatred toward truth and science on others, precisely because you lack self-awareness.”
            I don’t hate science and truth. Once again, click on the link above.You want science? There it is. You want truth? There it is. You want proof? There it is. You want peer reviewed? There it is.
            “You are a science-denier and truth hater”
            (sigh) See the link above.
            “and a Christ-bigot”
            Actually I’m being a lot more true to the message of Christ than you are. I’m practicing love, kindness, tolerance and forgiveness and I’m not telling people NOT to fall in love. That is what YOU are doing.
            “But, you do not recognize these things, because you cling to delusional myths which deny science.”
            See the link above.
            “You just proved, right there, that you are both intolerant and fascist. TYVM – you are converting many today. :-)”
            I’m starting to get that you’re a fan of empty rhetoric and absurd hyperbole. Whatever, I can play that game too. TYVM, you are illustrating with your own words better than I ever could the dangers of zealotry and fundamentalism.
            “Every atrocity in human history was justified on that claim – abortion, slavery, etc. You would have made a good slaver, science-denier and pro-abort that you are.”
            Let’s dissect that statement. Me: You have trouble minding your own business. You (in a paroxysm of spitte-flecked rage): PRO-ABORT! SLAVER! SCIENCE DENIER!!!
            I have a pretty fair education, but how exactly does me telling you to mind your own business end up in a place of me keeping slaves, forcing women to have abortions, and denying science? As you said earlier, TYVM. People are now seeing you as unhinged, unreasonable and more than a little bit off your rocker. Let’s stay on topic please, which is your penchant for fire-bombing abortion clinics (See what I did there?)
            “Did you know that the fact that you call something “hate” does not make it “hate?”
            Yes. The fact that it IS hate is what makes it hate.
            “Based on your definition of “hate,” anyone who disagrees with you is a “hater.”
            No, based on my definition of hate, people who practice hatred are haters. Don’t hate on homosexuals and you’ll be spared the label. Real simple.
            “You should get out more, meet some real gay people, and get past your need to create victims where they aren’t, and, as in abortion, deny victims where they are.”
            My best friend is gay. I was best man at his wedding. My wife catered it. No victims involved.
            “BTW, we saved another baby on the sidewalk yesterday, no thanks to you.”
            Irrelvant to this discussion, but bully for you.
            “Left up t o you and your pals, that baby would be dead right now.”
            I don’t know you nor do I know the person involved. Don’t involve me in your paranoid schizophrenic delusions please.
            “Enjoy your Eternity in Hell.”
            Judge not, lest ye be judged comes to mind. So does “vengeance is mine, sayeth the lord.” But on a very basic level, you’re not God, so shut your mouth J
            “The two line up quite well when it comes to the destructiveness of same sex behavior. You wish it didn’t, but it still does.”
            What is “same sex behavior” in your little mind? I think that when two people are in love, that’s what comes first, and whatever goes on in the bedroom, which could be ANYTHING and is none of our business, comes a very distant second. But you are not in a position to speak on that nor judge it.
            “No, because these are living human beings not involved in consensual choices.” – You mean, like preborn babies? 🙂 Thanks for serving up that softball!”
            Shifting the focus back to abortion yet again? You do know this thread is about homosexuality, right? But that one’s easily diffused anyway. Not born? Not baby. Born? Baby.
            “That’s a rather bizarre leap of logic to make considering that I just happen to disagree with you on a slaveowner’s right to choose. Not knowing every slaveowner’s own situation, which would be impossible, does not make me a proponent of slavery.”
            Keeping slaves =/= allowing a woman the right to make a choice about her situation.
            “See how that works, baby hater? You would have made a great slaver.”
            No I don’t, abortion clinic bomber. You would have made a great Zodiac Killer. (The empty rhetoric game is quite fun! I could do this all day…)
            “You really are making this too easy for me, Quantz. On the plus side, you are providing good humor and entertainment for me while I do my taxes. :-)”
            What a shame you can’t recognize that all the laughs are coming at your own expense.
            “No way – I love homosexuals so much that I let them know the dangers associated with their behavior.”
            Information you are ignorant about, are not qualified or educated enough to give, and which is none of your business. Batting a thousand. TYVM. Your mouth is working for the prosecution, not the defense here, and you are too obtuse to recognize it.
            “Fail. If it did, the CDC would not be pointing out the special risks associated with certain homosexual behavior.”
            You conveniently don’t point out the behavior yet again. Can’t wait to hear it. Tell me what this behavior is and be sure to tell me that it’s exclusive to homosexuals (i.e. that you know for a fact cannot also be practiced by a straight couple). Good luck on that one. Take a few days if you need it.
            “Do you actually KNOW anyone who is gay, Quantz? You seem to be remarkably ignorant of the lifestyle, and altogether callous toward their sufferings.”
            Sure do. As I mentioned, my best friend. And he and I together discuss the “lifestyle” pretty extensively – for example, he puts ketchup on his scrambled eggs – as well as their sufferings, i.e. the torrential amount of hate directed at them from the born-again crowd.
            “aah, now I see it: you think “love” is affirming whatever behavior another person is engaged in.”
            If it’s a behavior that hurts no one and doesn’t concern me? Absolutely.
            “By that standard, you would watch your child about to step into the street and not warn them because it wouldn’t be “loving.”
            No, that’s stupid, because a child stepping into the street is in risk of being hit by a car. A person entering into a loving and committed relationship with a loving partner is not at risk of anything except being happy.
            “It’s a good thing you are not a parent – but no abortions please.”
            And you know that I’m not a parent how exactly? Your super powers are amazing, aren’t they?
            “So, you are just another ticked off atheist who is upset because of Jesus’ exclusive claims, and walking over the bodies of gay people to get back at your dad who was absent or abusive? I was an atheist too – 42 years. I feel your pain.”
            So, you are just another ticket off abortion clinic bomber who is upset because of Odin’s exclusive claims, and walking over the bodies of dead baby seals to get back at your alcoholic grandmother?
            Your wild, unsubstantiated claims are only providing the good folks here with trunks o’ yuks, pal. By all means, continue to call me a slaver and pro-abort and tell me again about how letting homosexuals live their lives in peace makes me a hater of gays, Not that it’s going to make a difference, but I am not related to Hitler either, nor Pol Pot, I’ve never aborted another human being, and I don’t even smoke. Keep trying though, the law of averages says you’ll score a direct hit on that pinata yet.

          • Quantz

            “It sounds like you are denying what the CDC and other peer-reviewed medical citations say about the special physical and psychological destructive effects of homosexual behavior.”

            No, I’m denying your USE of the CDC information. Quote mining is a cheap tactic. And anyway, you’re doing the exact same thing but with the REAL information provided from the American Psychological Association. For your edification: https://www.apa.
            org/topics/lgbt/orientation.pdf

            “You are free to be a science-denier, but you are not allowed to hatefully force your delusional myths on the rest of us.”

            Science denier? Delusional myths? See the link above.

            “Actually, you project your hatred toward truth and science
            on others, precisely because you lack self-awareness.”

            I don’t hate science and truth. Once again, click on the link above.You want science? There it is. You want truth? There it is. You want proof? There it is. You want peer reviewed? There it is.

            “You are a science-denier and truth hater”

            (sigh) See the link above.

            “and a Christ-bigot”

            Actually, I’m being a lot more true to the message of Christ than you are. I’m practicing love, kindness, tolerance and forgiveness and I’m not telling people NOT to fall in love. That is what YOU are doing.

            “But, you do not recognize these things, because you cling to delusional myths which deny science.”

            See the link above.

            “You just proved, right there, that you are both intolerant
            and fascist. TYVM – you are converting many today. :-)”

            I’m starting to get that you’re a fan of empty rhetoric and absurd hyperbole. Whatever, I can play that game too. TYVM, you are illustrating with your own words better than I ever could the dangers of zealotry and fundamentalism.

            “Every atrocity in human history was justified on that claim – abortion, slavery, etc. You would have made a good slaver,
            science-denier and pro-abort that you are.”

            Let’s dissect that statement. Me: You have trouble minding your own business. You (in a paroxysm of spitte-flecked rage): PRO-ABORT! SLAVER! SCIENCE DENIER!!!

            I have a pretty fair education, but how exactly does me telling you to mind your own business end up in a place of me keeping slaves, forcing women to have abortions, and denying science? As you said earlier, TYVM. People are now seeing you as unhinged, unreasonable and more than a little bit off your rocker. Let’s stay on topic please, which is your penchant for fire-bombing abortion clinics (See what I did there?)

            “Did you know that the fact that you call something “hate” does not make it “hate?”

            Yes. The fact that it IS hate is what makes it hate.

            “Based on your definition of “hate,” anyone who disagrees with you is a “hater.”

            No, based on my definition of hate, people who practice hatred are haters. Don’t hate on homosexuals and you’ll be spared the label. Real simple.

            “You should get out more, meet some real gay people, and get past your need to create victims where they aren’t, and, as in abortion, deny victims where they are.”

            My best friend is gay. I was best man at his wedding. My wife catered it. No victims involved.

            “BTW, we saved another baby on the sidewalk yesterday, no thanks to you.”

            Irrelvant to this discussion, but bully for you.

            “Left up to you and your pals, that baby would be dead right now.”

            I don’t know you nor do I know the person involved. Don’t involve me in your paranoid schizophrenic delusions please.

            “Enjoy your Eternity in Hell.”

            Judge not, lest ye be judged comes to mind. So does “vengeance is mine, sayeth the lord.” But on a very basic level, you’re not God, so shut your mouth 🙂

            “The two line up quite well when it comes to the destructiveness of same sex behavior. You wish it didn’t, but it still does.”

            What is “same sex behavior” in your little mind? I think that when two people are in love, that’s what comes first, and whatever goes on in the bedroom, which could be ANYTHING and is none of our
            business, comes a very distant second. But you are not in a position to speak on that nor judge it.

            “No, because these are living human beings not involved in
            consensual choices.” – You mean, like preborn babies? 🙂 Thanks for serving up that softball!”

            Shifting the focus back to abortion yet again? You do know this thread is about homosexuality, right? But that one’s easily diffused anyway. Not born? Not baby. Born? Baby.

            “That’s a rather bizarre leap of logic to make considering that I just happen to disagree with you on a slaveowner’s right to choose. Not knowing every slaveowner’s own situation, which would be impossible, does not make me a proponent of slavery.”

            Keeping slaves =/= allowing a woman the right to make a choice about her situation.

            “See how that works, baby hater? You would have made a great
            slaver.”

            No I don’t, abortion clinic bomber. You would have made a great Zodiac Killer. (The empty rhetoric game is quite fun! I could do this all day…)

            “You really are making this too easy for me, Quantz. On the plus
            side, you are providing good humor and entertainment for me while I do my taxes. :-)”

            What a shame you can’t recognize that all the laughs are coming at your own expense.

            “No way – I love homosexuals so much that I let them know the dangers associated with their behavior.”

            Information you are ignorant about, are not qualified or educated enough to give, and which is none of your business. Batting a
            thousand. TYVM. Your mouth is working for the prosecution, not the defense here, and you are too obtuse to recognize it.

            “Fail. If it did, the CDC would not be pointing out the special risks associated with certain homosexual behavior.”

            You conveniently don’t point out the behavior yet again. Can’t wait to hear it. Tell me what this behavior is and be sure to tell me that it’s exclusive to homosexuals (i.e. that you know for a fact
            cannot also be practiced by a straight couple). Good luck on that one. Take a few days if you need it.

            “Do you actually KNOW anyone who is gay, Quantz? You seem to be remarkably ignorant of the lifestyle, and altogether callous toward their sufferings.”

            Sure do. As I mentioned, my best friend. And he and I together discuss the “lifestyle” pretty extensively – for example, he puts ketchup on his scrambled eggs – as well as their sufferings, i.e. the torrential amount of hate directed at them from the born-again crowd.

            “aah, now I see it: you think “love” is affirming whatever behavior another person is engaged in.”

            If it’s a behavior that hurts no one and doesn’t concern me? Absolutely.

            “By that standard, you would watch your child about to step into the street and not warn them because it wouldn’t be “loving.”

            No, that’s stupid, because a child stepping into the street is in risk of being hit by a car. A person entering into a loving and committed relationship with a loving partner is not at risk of
            anything except being happy.

            “It’s a good thing you are not a parent – but no abortions please.”

            And you know that I’m not a parent how exactly? Your super powers are amazing, aren’t they?

            “So, you are just another ticked off atheist who is upset because of Jesus’ exclusive claims, and walking over the bodies of gay people to get back at your dad who was absent or abusive? I was an atheist too – 42 years. I feel your pain.”

            So, you are just another ticket off abortion clinic bomber who is upset because of Odin’s exclusive claims, and walking over the bodies of dead baby seals to get back at your alcoholic grandmother?

            Your wild, unsubstantiated claims are only providing the good folks here with trunks o’ yuks, pal. By all means, continue to
            call me a slaver and pro-abort and tell me again about how letting homosexuals live their lives in peace makes me a hater of gays, Not that it’s going to make a difference, but I am not related to Hitler either, nor Pol Pot, I’ve never aborted another human being, and I don’t even smoke. Keep trying though, the law of averages says you’ll score a direct hit on that pinata yet.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Didn’t I ask you to save your meltdown until tomorrow night? Now, you are sounding delusional.

            Temper, temper. 🙂

          • Quantz

            Ah, this day just got more surreal. The man who is name-calling, raging and seeing pro-aborts everywhere he turns is accusing me of having a meltdown. Hope your party goes well, and if your guests leave giving you strange looks, don’t take it personally, they’re probably slavers and baby killers just like everyone else. (whoooooeeee!!!! Break out the tinfoil hats!)

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Believe me, it got surreal when you denied that “actual court evidence for an expectation of privacy on slavery” was not “mind your own business” on slavery. The intellectual gymnastics that you have to go through to not admit you were wrong must keep you in good shape – in the padded rooms.

            But, then, it would make you uncomfortable to find out that slavers used the same argument for owning black people that you use for supporting abortion. So, keep up those gymnastics, and remember, meltdown at 8 pm ET tonight – I’ve got babies to save from you and yours in the meantime!

          • Quantz

            While you are entertaining your little pals this evening at your fundie fondue, see if they know the difference between minding one’s one business and privacy, because to no one’s surprise, you still don’t, even after having it pointed out to you several times. Good luck saving the world from all the imaginary pro-aborts and slavers who haunt your every waking thought, and do have one of your guests this evening videotape your meltdown for posterity.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “Fundie” reminds me of someone “special.” 🙂

            OK, so the early reviews are in on you:

            “Quite delusional.” “Theatre of the Absurd – at its very best, Bravo!” “After reading the creepy slave ruling, I will never shout ‘MYOB’ to a pro-lifer again.” “Is Quantz a bot or a ‘brain’ in a vat?” “Do I have to say a prayer to convert to pro-life? I’m not even Christian!” “Bodily autonomy is my last hope – thanks to this jerk!”

            So, it’s a good start, but you can do better. Keep posting your “best” stuff, OK? We have the popcorn out and have made it through the previews. Our feet are up and let the show begin!

          • Quantz

            So, you have a bunch of narrow-minded hateful bigoted friends? And this comes as a surprise why? Bigots of a feather…

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Haha – actually, as the quotes above show, several of the folks were non-Christian poor choicers. But, thanks for continuing your meltdown – who knew you were up for an encore?!? 🙂

          • Quantz

            As if you’d hang out with non-Christians, let alone ones you’d refer to as “poor choicers”. Is this your personal equivalent of Jesus eating with lepers?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            I hang out with non-Christians all the time – the deathscorts at the local abortion mill are all non-Christian, including some wiccans, to whom I remind:

            “Do what thou wilt, but do no harm.” 🙂

            I also hang out with non-Christians and poor choicers in many other places. Let’s face it, it’s tough to go anywhere and not be around non-Christians and poor-choicers in America. Most polls I have seen, as your leper comment alludes to, show the number of true disciples of Christ at somewhere between 3-20% in America. That’s what makes our country such a good place to share the Gospel – you can go into the average church and do it too.

            So, you are preaching to the choir on this one. But, I still like the preaching. 🙂

          • Quantz

            The language that flows out of you is so completely judgmental all the time, from your made up words like “deathscorts” to telling innocent people that they are in reality pro-aborts simply because they’re not out there demonstrating in the streets, that I can’t believe you’ve got friends outside of your (extremely) Evangelical church.

            I tend NOT to hang out with people who compare me to slave traders, but I guess I’m just funny that way.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “The language that flows out of you is so completely judgmental all the time”

            Did you just make a judgment? 🙂 Self-refuting.

            “from your made up words like “deathscorts””

            That’s an industry standard. You just may not be familiar with it.

            “innocent people that they are in reality pro-aborts”

            There is nothing innocent about supporting abortion.

            “Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer

            “I can’t believe you’ve got friends outside of your (extremely) Evangelical church”

            Haha – I don’t spend a lot of time in churches, but, as a former atheist, I do spend a lot of my time with unbelievers and liberals (family).

            “I tend NOT to hang out with people who compare me to slave traders, but I guess I’m just funny that way.”

            Perhaps that is your conscience telling you that you cannot handle the truth enough to engage?

          • Quantz

            “Did you just make a judgment?”

            Possibly, but you’ll notice it contained no accusations of gassing Jews, keeping slaves, or slaughtering babies. That’s the difference between you and me.

            “That’s an industry standard”

            No, it’s a WorldGoneCrazy standard.

            “There is nothing innocent about supporting abortion”

            It isn’t my fault or anyone else’s that your thinking is so black and white that everyone not out there actively stopping abortions is in favor of them, or that you don’t know the difference between being pro-abortion and putting the decision in the hands of the woman in the situation – a decision that can include having the baby.

            Bonhoeffer’s quote assumes evil where there is no evil but choices. Choices that you don’t seem to understand are not yours to make.

          • Gideon Aggenbag

            Quantz, don’t bother answering my above question. I have my answer from yourself: “… brutal and archaic religious beliefs, such as those found in Evangelical Christianity.”

          • MamaBear

            Thanks for standing up for the SBC.
            ” In the spirit of Christ, Christians should oppose racism, every form of greed, selfishness, and vice, and all forms of sexual immorality, including adultery, homosexuality, and pornography.”
            Baptist Faith and Message 2000 version Section XV

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Oh yeah, I LOVE SBC Baptists, MamaBear – spend tons of time with them – the ones who take it seriously. I’m non-denom, but some combination of Biblical Baptist and charismatic old-style (VERY old-style) Wesleyan, with a mix of the fighting spirit of conservative Catholicism (and a bit of their best liturgy thrown in – Nicene Creed, Gloria, etc) would suit me just fine. But, I really am non-dogmatic on denominations, as long as the orthodox Christian core is aggressively defended, and they are Spirit-filled in terms of orthopraxy.

            I just thought this story was the best mix of discipline and love I have probably seen in any church or denomination – a great role model for how to do it, just like Jesus would have. It is a LOT nicer statement than I would have made with such heresy. (But, that goes without saying, hehe. :-))

            God bless you, MamaBear!!!

          • Gideon Aggenbag

            Quantz, you say: “The SBC should … be apologizing en masse”. You must surely realize that the Carolina congregation seperated itself from the SBC by acting opposite to it’s principles (to which Carolina congregation had bound itself)? The SBC merely acknowledged this fact. Now who should apologize?

          • Gideon Aggenbag

            Quantz, I’m wondering: are you a Christian? No offence meant – I only want to know if it will make sense pointing out God’s will to you.

          • Gideon Aggenbag

            Quantz, one must understand what this is all about. The 1st question to be answered is: “Do we accept the Bible as God’s Word?” If not, we will be wasting our time trying to decide what is wrong or right. If we believe in God according to the Bible, then condoning gay marriage is totally forbidden. SBC is then correct by stating, in effect, that they cannot tolerate being in the same stable and counted as being “one with” South Carolina congregation.

            Remember, church discipline is not a process of punishment, but a case of Christian discipline. Here, discipline does NOT have the meaning of layng in the rod, but SBC’s inner discipline by remaining true to their creed and convictions. If they had not done this, they would also have been untrue to the gospel of Jesus Christ and so would have dishonoured him.

          • StanW

            What if that same daughter came to you and said she had accepted Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior? Would you be as understanding?

          • Quantz

            Of course. She’s not hurting anything by becoming a Christian, unless it’s the kind of “Christian” who firebombs abortion clinics or pickets funerals.

          • StanW

            Right…

          • Gideon Aggenbag

            StanW, without engaging in homosexual preactice such a statement by that daughter could be true. SSA (Same Sex Attraction) is caused in a child’s life by a wide variety of possible circumstances/events, and can be cured with the correct guidance. The crux of the matter remains, however, that (SSA) person’s choice to actively engage in homosex.

          • Gideon Aggenbag

            Quantz, do not confuse same sex attraction with practicing sex with the same sex. Vast difference. Even if a heterosexual person is attracted to the opposite sex, that does not mean that he/she máý go ahead and have sex to his/her heart’s content. God’s Word forbids any sexual practice outside of marriage.

          • Quantz

            In the real world as we know it, people meet, they fall in love, they make commitments to one another and they bond. That happens with homosexuals and heterosexuals alike. If any “God” would tell a whole class of people who can only form intimate bonds with people of the same gender that they are forbidden from doing so, it is not a God worthy of worship.

          • Gideon Aggenbag

            The simple fact is that God who created all life also created man, and He makes the best rules to govern their standards of living. Unregenerated man makes his own choices according to his own wishes. God tells us what is forbidden and what the outcome wil be.

          • Quantz

            I elect not to believe that, nor a God that tortures people in fire for eternity.

          • Harry Oh!

            You’re only saying that because you approve of all things perverse. If she wanted to become nun I’d bet that you’d be alot more unhappy than if she became a prostitute.

          • Quantz

            No, because there’s nothing perverse about being a lesbian – unless you’ve been brought up in some backwards superstitious religion.

          • Harry Oh!

            Well 99% of the woman out there would be repelled by the thought of having sex with another woman. You don’t need a backward religion to explain that.

          • Quantz

            No, simple biology will do.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

    LGBT Christians who wish to find a welcoming church need only go to gaychurch(dot)org.

    People tend to stick with the denomination in which they were raised as children, and Gay Christians are no different.

    • Amos Moses

      “gaychurch(dot)org.”

      Oxymoron or Contradiction in Terms………………. Judges?

      • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

        If all churches believed exactly the same thing, there wouldn’t be a bizillion different denominations. This reminds me of an old joke:

        Once I saw this guy who was about to jump off a bridge to his death.

        I said, “Don’t do it!”

        He said, “Nobody loves me.”

        I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”

        He said, “Yes.”

        I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?”

        He said, “A Christian.”

        I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?”

        He said, “Protestant.”

        I said, “Me, too! What denomination?”

        He said, “Baptist.”

        I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?”

        He said, “Northern Baptist.”

        I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”

        He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.”

        I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?”

        He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.”

        I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.”

        I said, “Die, heretic!” and pushed him off the bridge.

        • Amos Moses

          “If all churches believed exactly the same thing,”

          Then they would all believe in God/Christ…… but God did not create it that way. He allows the heretical to exist in contrast to His true church.

          There are certain things that are common to all churches. If you are outside that orthodoxy, then they are not of Christ.

          Homosexuals being married………… NOT of Christ. Not of Christianity.

          Sorry Charlie, only those of Christ and who follow His teachings, all of them, are of Christ. Repentance is a gift from Christ, and we cannot receive that gift if we do not have conviction that our sin is, in fact, sin. Homosexuals reject that they are in sin.

          Easy peasy.

          • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

            A growing number of Christian congregations disagree with you. Whether YOU consider them authentically Christian is irrelevant.

          • Amos Moses

            “A growing number of Christian congregations disagree with you. ”

            NO, THEY DISAGREE WITH CHRIST.

            Then they are in heresy and NOT of Christ. Not by my reckoning, my reckoning IS irrelevant, AS IS YOURS.

            i am prejudiced, you are correct, against those who say they are in Christ, and are LYING about His word.

          • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

            Nevertheless, I’m sure Augusta Heights Baptist Church will do just fine without your approval.

          • Amos Moses

            They need Christs approval. It is HIS church, HE created it, it belongs to HIM. Not to the pastor, congregation or any other group of men or any man.

            Unless they reject Him, in which case, it is not a church at all. It is something else. A glorified social club perhaps.

            Have fun with that.

          • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

            Christ isn’t rejecting that church, the SBC is. Does the SBC speak for Christ?

          • Amos Moses

            That church has rejected Christ and his teaching. What the SBC does is to keep their house clean.

            “Does the SBC speak for Christ?”

            Do you?

          • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

            No. Do YOU?

          • Amos Moses

            We are to judge who says they are of Christ to see if they are in fact telling the truth. This is what the SBC has done. Do i speak for Christ? No, but i do speak to the truth of scripture and what Christ has told us and his teaching.

          • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

            The men who felt INSPIRED to write down Scripture could not have imagined a 21st century world in their wildest dreams. And for all you know, the “Christ” that you seem to be so chummy with may have changed his mind about quite a few things, considering how human culture has evolved over the past 2000 years. Maybe you can get Christ to hold a press conference, then maybe we could find out what he thinks about contemporary issues such as gun control and climate change. Until then, you really have to wonder how the social traditions of ancient Israel are relevant to the 21st century world.

          • Amos Moses

            So your contention is that Christ and the Holy spirit did not foresee to the present time when men would reject the clear teachings of the bible and men would fall into apostasy and follow their own base desires and that God would give them over to vile affections, leaving the natural use of the woman and burn in their desires for men with other men. FYI, that IS in scripture and you are living proof of that prophecy.

            “And for all you know, the “Christ” that you seem to be so chummy with may have changed his mind about quite a few things,”

            And your scriptural evidence is………………….. nothing, you have none….. but you now claim to know what the mind of Christ is after you just stated that you did not just about an hour ago.

            WOW! Chucky, you really need to stop and smell what you are shoveling. Or plowing.

          • Amos Moses

            I find myself confused about how it is possible that high-heeled shoes, dresses, and lipstick are all tools of the patriarchy to oppress women and transform them into mere objects of male desire, yet it is considered necessary that men who transition to become women must wear high heels, dresses, and lipstick in order to “express themselves as women,” which would suggest that there is something innately feminine about these objects.

            But that cannot be the case if they are tools of masculinist oppression, unless femininity itself were an invention of the patriarchy with no basis in reality, which would mean it would be impossible to have a biological necessity to transition to being a woman, since femininity is not biological in nature at all, but political. If a dress, then, is oppressive by nature, should it not be discouraged among transitioned females just as much as among born females? Such would seem to be the case unless born females and transitioned females are different, but I am then reminded they are not!

            I realize now that marriage is an institution invented to enslave women and keep them from actualizing their career potential. Yet if marriage is an evil to straight women, why is it a right for gay men? Or, for that matter, for lesbians, who are, from what I am told, actually women, too?

          • Emmanuel

            True, they will. But, God has left the building. Lev 18 says it well:
            28 So do not defile the land and give it a reason to vomit you out, as it will vomit out the people who live there now. 29 Whoever commits any of these detestable sins will be cut off from the community of Israel. 30 So obey my instructions, and do not defile yourselves by committing any of these detestable practices that were committed by the people who lived in the land before you. I am the Lord your God.”

          • Emmanuel

            Your statement is very insightful. Now I understand the left.
            Christ died for nothing, it was not important and he died in vain.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Exactly! I grew up in a very liberal home and there were two things my liberal (sometimes attending) episcopal parents did not talk about: sin and the cross.

          • Emmanuel

            Well, that explains why many churches believe gay lifestyle is holy and blessed.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Precisely. Many are pro-abortion too. You can be sure that if slavery were still popular, they would be onboard with that as well. (It was “crazy” conservative evangelicals that ended that human rights abuse, not sin-denying liberal theologians.)

            Liberal theology leads to sin-denial, which leads to no real need for Jesus or the Resurrection.

          • Emmanuel

            Thank you and you are right on.

          • Oshtur

            Christ died so that churches would tell homosexuals that they are just fine the way they are.
            Didn’t you get that memo?

          • Emmanuel

            LOL, I got the bible. That 66 book memo says that Christ died for sins. If homosexuality is holy, then he died for what?

          • Oshtur

            LOL
            “growing number”

    • Emmanuel

      If you are a cheating husband or wife, please go find a church that supports your lifestyle. If you are a polygamist, go find a church. If you hit your wife, go find a church. If you want to worship multiple gods, go find a church.
      Soon all sinful behavior will be allowed and deemed holy at some accepting church.

      • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

        Emmanuel, I’m sure there COUNTLESS members in good standing of the SBC who hit their wives!

        • Oshtur

          You know nothing at all about normal people.

        • Emmanuel

          And that’s holy? That’s correct? Or is it holy and anyone can find a church that supports it?

    • Reason2012

      Might as well have said “Unrepentant sinners who refuse to stop sinning who wish to find a welcoming church need only go to IRefuseToStopSinningChurch org”

      We are only fooling ourselves if we refuse to stop sinning – if it doesn’t bother us. If we think going to church, let alone one that accepts us refusing to stop sinning as if such things are not even sins, is going to make us right before God, we’re in for a rude surprise. 🙁

      “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
      1 John 2:3-4

    • Oshtur

      No such thing as “LGBT Christians.”
      Going to church does not make a person a Christian.
      Christianity is about getting rid of your sins, not celebrating sins.
      Gays attend seminary and become clergy so as to destroy Christianity from within. All they have managed to do is destroy the progressive wing. They will answer to God for telling the lie that people could be Christians while engaging in sexual perversion.

  • kagl982

    A church without standards is not a church.

    • Emmanuel

      Amen

  • Josey

    Very Biblical in removing this church.

  • Realitycbd

    These separations are a good thing, separating the Christians from the pretenders. Most of the congregations that separate from the Southern Baptists associate with either the Alliance of Baptists or the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, both of which are tiny compared to the SB. In fact, many congregations claim membership in both associations, which means their membership stats are rather unreliable. Often the names of the two associations will appear on lists of denominations that promote homosexuality. The list itself is very misleading, because most of the denominations listed (such as the Alliance of Baptists) are extremely small, whereas the Southern Baptists are still over 15 million, by far the largest Protestant denomination in the US. I think the SBs have a “brand name” problem at the moment, with a name that sounds somewhat reactionary. I wouldn’t count them out just yet, they still have the largest number of congregations that are considered megachurches. The separation from the liberal congregations means a slight loss in numbers, but it also means a loss of the people with the least commitment to the faith, so it’s a “good loss” in that respect. There is much more vitality in the SB than in the breakaway groups. The Cooperative Baptists had to relocate the campus for their Richmond seminary, which has only 42 students. This is part of a national trend of liberal seminaries shutting down, downsizing, or merging. These people have chosen to be on the winning side in the culture wars, but the losing side in terms of numbers. The Millennials who claim to be put off by the conservative form of Christianity are most definitely not filling up the pews in the liberal churches.

  • Michelle Evans

    If you’re shaking up with the devil, don’t force or expect God to pay the rent.

  • Carole

    Yet many Southern Baptists are supporting Trump who has given thousands of dollars to Planned Parenthood and Homosexuals Organizations. Where in the Scriptures is this acceptable? How do you spell hypocrite?

  • thelordlives2011

    The SBC did the right thing.