Missouri Students Push Back After Atheists Demand Youth Pastor Stop Leading Lunchtime Prayers

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Photo Credit: Carley Smith/Facebook

HOLLISTER, Mo. — Students in a Missouri school district are pushing back after a professing atheist organization recently sent a letter to district officials, demanding that an area youth pastor be prohibited from leading prayers during the lunch period.

The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) had sent a letter last month to Hollister Superintendent Brian Wilson after a parent complained abut a video posted on social media that showed a youth minister leading students in prayer.

“The video depicts an adult leading the entire lunchroom in a prayer with all of the students surrounding him in a circle,” attorney Patrick Elliott wrote. “The parent’s child also reports that students were directed in a similar prayer all of last week and this week as well during the seventh-grade lunch.”

The pastor was found to be a member of the Tri-Lakes chapter of KLIFE, which according to its website, “works alongside churches and families in the community to teach and encourage kids to be strong in the Lord in spite of all the negative pressures they face as teenagers.”

“When the school grants KLIFE ministers access to students, it advances KLIFE’s mission of proselytizing. In many cases, we have found that similar youth programs use schools to befriend students with the goal of spreading a religious message and recruiting members for their youth groups,” FFRF wrote. “No religious organization should have direct access to students at school.”

FFRF referred to the ministry’s activities as “predatory conduct.”

But Wilson told the Springfield News-Leader that the prayer was student initiated, and that students have been praying together during the lunch period for some time. He said that one student asked the youth minister to lead the prayer that day, and he obliged, not knowing that it would pose any issue.

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FFRF posted a video of the prayer online, which it titled, “Pastor invades MO public school to pray with students.”

In response to the situation, not only are students at Hollister Middle School gathering during the lunch period to pray as a form of pushing back, but students at other schools are doing so as well. Pictures are surfacing online with the hashtag #praywithhollister.

“Ever wonder what kind of impact a group of kids showing glory to God looks like? It’s amazing,” wrote Emily Richardson of Buffalo High School. “I’m completely speechless and amazed as I watch a room full of kids publicly pray to God during lunch!”

“Blessed to be a part of a school where so many students stand up for a student-led prayer during lunch,” posted Carley Smith, who posted a photo as well.

But FFRF says that although the youth pastor has agreed not to lead the prayer again, the organization does not believe he should even be around students and are seeking to have him and other pastors ousted from area public schools.

“Youth pastors have had unrestricted access to students during the school day to be able to befriend [students], and ultimately recruit them for their religious groups,” Elliott told local television station KOLR. “We’ve been talking with the parents [in Hollister] and considering our legal options.”


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  • Guest

    Why was the adult there presumptively with school permission? Why was he in the lunchroom in the first place?

    • Cady555

      To use taxpayer funded schools to gather up a bunch of kids so he could more efficiently convert them to his religion.

      I mean, who could object? You would be fine if someone tried to lure your kids away from your religious teaching while at school, right?

      • Guest

        Well, that 🙂

        But I’m more wondering why a high shool is having non-employee adults wandering around? Even parents assisting in classes have to sign a contract about appropriate behaviors why back when I was in k-12.

        Why is he in a school lunch room anyway? Can just anyone wander among the students at this school?

        • Cady555

          He is a youth pastor. Don’t ever question youth pastors. They are all holy and pure. Every one. Just Google the term “youth pastor.”

          • Psygn

            Question everything including a “youth pastor” preying on children at a public school.

          • Cady555

            Yes. If you Google “youth pastor” it will become clear that letting them anywhere near “youth” is a real bad idea.

          • Psygn

            I saw that in the News last week. Sick.

        • familyvonbarnhart

          If the school allows visitors in the building it would be illegal to discriminate against someone based on their faith. The students invited him to join them during lunch – when they have “free time”. (Note, he was not disrupting educational time.) I have no doubt that he was signed in & if there was a contract, I’m sure he signed it. He did nothing illegal or inappropriate. The students had initiated the prayer and asked him to lead them. They have that right. There have been multiple court cases affirming students rights to practice their faith during school. The1st Amendment to the Constitution states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof ” If the school banned prayer during lunch they would definitely be breaking this amendment. I suppose the school could ban all visitors from the building, but that would probably upset a LOT of parents who feel they should have the right to visit their child’s classroom to observe.

          • Guest

            Actually the complete story is on other news sites. You are grasping for straws.

            but since you have a misunderstanding about the facts:

            1) all guests on the school grounds must follow the rules of employees – government employees – they cannot engage in religious conduct with students.

            2) there is no ‘free time’ during school hours, as long as students are present the rules apply.

            3) students can engage in religious activity, representatives of the government must remain religiously neutral.

            4) the school admits they didn’t properly brief the ministers and giving them special access was an error.

      • Josey

        One solution, take your atheist children out of school and home school them or put them in a atheist school, the majority has spoken…You want Christians removed from jobs and businesses for the minority of atheists who could go get what they need from a school or business that supports their beliefs and removing those few who do not want prayer at school can take their tax money and put it elsewhere. I am quite sure the school would do find w/out them and their few tax dollars. Majority rules!

        • Jalapeno

          ” Majority rules!”

          …No, it does not.

          People have rights, even if the “majority” of other people don’t want them to have them.

          • Pashta

            Yes, everyone has rights. Including the kids that WANT TO PRAY! You libtards don’t get it – first amendment guarantees freedom to practice religion ANYWHERE.

          • Blaylock

            not in a public school cafeteria…take it elsewhere

          • Pashta

            @blaylock No, you’re wrong. The first amendment says PERIOD. Read it:

            “Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

          • John Bailey

            I don’t think you’re going to get Blaylock to understand the Free Exercise Clause. He or she thinks that Separation of Church and State is on the Constitution when in reality its nowhere there to be found

          • Randy Wanat

            Why ignore relevant case law? You do realize the Constitution doesn’t say “separate but equal” isn’t equal, right? Yet, that is the law. Do you think that lying about constitutional law is a good example of being an honest Christian?

          • Jalapeno

            Yes..it becomes a bit of a different story when it’s a major social activity in a public school.

          • Pashta

            @Jalapeno NO, it doesn’t. The first amendment protects the free exercise of religion, period. ANYWHERE.

          • acontraryview

            “The first amendment protects the free exercise of religion, period. ANYWHERE.”

            You are mistaken. As with all rights, the right to religious expression has restrictions.

          • Pashta

            They’re called RIGHTS not “sometimes rights”. You people are so ignorant.

          • acontraryview

            is it your belief that the Constitution provides for the right of citizens to express their religious beliefs at any time, in any manner, and in any location they care to?

          • Pashta

            Yes, absolutely. It DOES.

          • acontraryview

            You are mistaken. For example, I am not allowed to come onto your property and hold a religious service. The 1st Amendment provides that Congress will not pass a law prohibiting the expression of religious belief. What that means is that Congress cannot pass a law, for example, that outlaws Buddhism. It does NOT mean that citizens are free to express their religious beliefs at any time, in any manner, and in any location they care to. There are restrictions. In general, a citizen’s expression of religious belief cannot be done in a manner which violates the rights of others.

          • Pashta

            Then nobody would ever be able to do anything because someone would always claim it was “violating THEIR rights”. I’m done. Don’t bother me again.

          • acontraryview

            Rights are very specific. So, no, that would not lead to “nobody would ever be able to do anything because someone would always claim it was violating THEIR rights”.

            The simple fact is this, Pashta: The right to religious expression has restrictions, as all rights do.

          • Jalapeno

            So.. You’re under the impression that, even in government buildings, there are absolutely no restrictions on what you do in the name of your religion?

          • Randy Wanat

            So, if you’re in court, you have the right to pray aloud while a case is being prosecuted, and nobody can do anything about it? They’re not”sometimes rights,” right?

            No right is absolute. Read relevant case law. The constitution doesn’t end with the constitution. Pretending it does is intellectually dishonest. If you don’t care about integrity, keep doing it.

          • Psygn

            I’ll agree the ‘kids’ haven’t broken the law, however I can’t say the same for the school administration, I’m sure a judge will clear this up for them.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            We “libtards” aren’t denying that. The students absolutely have a right to pray anywhere. Read the story, the problem isn’t that the students are praying, it’s that there’s a pastor leading it. If it was just a bunch of students praying – organized and led by students – no problem at all.

          • Pashta

            No, the students ASKED him to and he said he wouldn’t do it again since it bothered people like you.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Right. He probably realized after the fact he shouldn’t have done that, or he should have known.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Yes it would, if the students were taking over the cafeteria to do it. If a student grabbed a microphone during lunch, tapped it a few times, asked for his fellow students’ attention, and suggested that everyone take a moment to bow their heads in thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ, it would be just as unconstitutional as if the principal, a teacher, or an outside youth pastor did the same thing.

            A student may, however, sit at a table with his friends and suggest that he and his friends say a quick prayer before they start eating. Or even a long one. Just as long as the prayer doesn’t make use of the school’s facilities, or use students assembled for a school function as an audience for a prayer.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Good point, I didn’t think of it that way.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Beautiful case, that Santa Fe v. Doe 🙂 It comes in handy a lot!

          • Cady555

            No one has a problem with kids praying. The problem is when the school permits adults permit outsiders in to push religion on school property.

          • Pashta

            Again, he wasn’t pushing anything. You’re trying to push atheism on them and that’s not ok just as it’s not ok to push religion on them.

          • gizmo23

            Then why did he stop if he was so right?

          • acontraryview

            “You’re trying to push atheism on them ”

            How is not having an outside pastor come into the school to lead students in prayer pushing atheism on them?

          • Pashta

            He was ASKED to do it, read next time…

          • acontraryview

            i read that the first time.

            I’ll ask again: How is not having an outside pastor come into the school to lead students in prayer pushing atheism on them?

          • Pashta

            The youth pastor apparently comes there on a regular basis as a volunteer, which isn’t illegal. He didn’t show up just to pray. He was there for another reason, and the kids asked him to do the prayer with them.

          • acontraryview

            What else was he there for?

            I’ll ask yet again: How is not having an outside pastor come into the school to lead students in prayer pushing atheism on them?

          • Pashta

            I didn’t say they were, you’re also a troll, making crap up on the fly. Not responding to you anymore, goodbye.

          • acontraryview

            What “crap” did I make up?

            I’ll ask yet again: How is not having an outside pastor come into the school to lead students in prayer pushing atheism on them?

          • Randy Wanat

            Student-initiated, student-led. Why do you think Christians shouldn’t have to follow the law?

          • Pashta

            Um, it WAS student initiated and student led…

          • Randy Wanat

            Not the one that caused the hullaballoo in the first place.

          • familyvonbarnhart

            If the school allows adult visitors in the building during school hours, it would be wrong to discriminate against someone because of their faith. You don’t have to be a pastor or even “Christian” to push religion on school property. And proselytizing isn’t illegal in the US. (it is in some Muslim countries, which is scary. Even an atheist who says out loud that he doesn’t believe in god or worse, “there is no god” is breaking the law and could be sentenced to death! I don’t think we want to see that here in the US. )

          • Josey

            Bologna!

          • gizmo23

            I fully intend on going to a school and do some wiccan rituals. I’m sure I can find a kid to invite me

          • Pashta

            Not rituals, but praying to mother earth or whatever is completely acceptable. Go for it.

          • gizmo23

            Did Jesus call people libtards? How does insulting disabled people promote Christian faith?

          • Pashta

            I’m not Christian or religious at all. It’s a description, not a bad word. Only “liberals” believe this garbage because they don’t actually read the Bill of Rights.

          • gizmo23

            It is an insult using disabled people? Do you use the word gimp to describe people that lost limbs in the military?

          • Pashta

            Retarded is a real word. Deal with it.

          • gizmo23

            Used by people to insult others. It is not used by us in the mental health or educational field.

          • Pashta

            Only since this “PC” BS started. I will continue to say libtard because it is a perfect description.

          • gizmo23

            So insult disabled people. Kick some puppies while you are at it

          • Pashta

            LOL. If you consider liberals disabled, then I guess so.

          • Randy Wanat

            If you ONLY read the bill of rights, you will not fully comprehend the rights enumerated therein, because case law determines the depth and breadth of those rights. You do understand that Supreme Court rulings are legally binding, right? That makes them case law, which is…wait for it…LAW. Your determination to say things that are untrue to support an emotional response is eroding your integrity. Try not being defensive and looking up what has been told and linked to you. If you’re not too intellectually frail to risk discovering you were wrong, you will do that simple task. If you can’t handle that possibility, then you are too mentally feeble to handle the conversation.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            That’s more or less correct. But the First Amendment does NOT guarantee the right to hijack an audience assembled at a compulsory, government function (i.e. a school) and begin a prayer to them.

            Students forming form prayer circles on their own is permissible. Anyone (including students) taking over the entire cafeteria for a prayer is not.

          • Pashta

            That’s not what happened here, try reading the story again. The students ASKED HIM to lead THEIR prayer.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Irrelevant. Unless 100% of the students in the room invited him, it was hijacking their lunchtime. And even if 100% of the students did invite him, it’s still unconstitutional.

          • Pashta

            Um, NO, it is NOT. You are clueless.

          • Randy Wanat

            So, you ADMIT it was not a student-led prayer, which means it was not constitutionally protected. Student-initiated AND student-led. If it’s not both, it’s not ok.

            Thank you for finally admitting that what happened was against the law.

          • Pashta

            There is no such law. I’m not talking to you anymore, you’re not interested in facts. Bye.

          • Randy Wanat

            Nobody is taking away the right of students to pray. Student prayer must be student-initiated and student-led. Are you trying to argue that Christian children are incapable of understanding and following that basic rule?

          • Pashta

            It WAS!!!

          • Randy Wanat

            Not the one that caused the hullaballoo in the first place. Even the headline on a Christian website says it was led by a pastor, NOT a student. Do you understand that it was NOT student-initiated and student-led now?

          • DrewTwoFish

            Libtards.

            That’s elevating the discussion.

          • Pashta

            Funny how it’s true…

          • Jean Adams

            If someone was spouting something I didn’t want to hear I’d leave the room. People praying were in the majority, if the minority didn’t like it they should have left.

          • Jalapeno

            Yeah, I’m sure that would have gone great if people decided to surround the lunchroom in a prayer for Satan, maybe had the administraters bring in some Satanist pastors to lead the group? Make sure that the kids who sit out are nice and intimated?

          • familyvonbarnhart

            The administration did not bring any religious leaders into the school. The youth pastor was asked to be there by the students. If visitors are allowed in the school, which seems to be the case, then no laws were broken. Everything was student initiated, which is protected by the Constitution. I really don’t see any ethical or legal issues here.

          • acontraryview

            “Everything was student initiated”

            How is that relevant?

            “which is protected by the Constitution.”

            Where in the Constitution is there a protection for students to invite whoever they care to into a public school?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            “Everything was student initiated, which is protected by the Constitution.”

            False. Santa Fe ISD v. Doe.

          • Randy Wanat

            The law isn’t majority rule, and neither are constitutional rights.

          • Josey

            That’s because we have common sense, someone who gets offended over something they claim doesn’t exist in the first place has no common sense.

          • gizmo23

            So middle school kids can come and go as they please?

          • Randy Wanat

            Yes, because who cares about the rights of the minority? If the majority of the students are white, and they don’t want non-white kids eating in the cafeteria with them, the non-white students should just go eat somewhere else, because the majority rules.

            Tell us how you think that is acceptable.

          • Jeff Briggs

            You’re OK with the minority who are atheists imposing their will on the majority who are Christians. So you are OK with tyranny, as long as it’s your side doing the tyrannizing.

          • Randy Wanat

            The law and rights are not majority rule. Why do you think they should be?

          • Jeff Jankowiak

            ??

          • gizmo23

            How have atheists denying anyone their faith

        • Psygn

          I would suggest you read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers in conjunction with the Constitution to get a better understanding of the legal problems with your hypothesis..

        • Blaylock

          nopers. these pastors have no business in a public school. they are doing nothing more than indoctrinating kids and making others uncomfortable.

          • John Bailey

            You did read the part of the article where one of the students asked the youth pastor to lead them in prayer didn’t you?

        • Psygn

          A better solution would be to fire the school administration.

          • familyvonbarnhart

            for what?

        • Paige Turner

          Wrong! the majority does not “rule”. This is why there is a constitution and laws to protect minorities. If the majority ruled then this would be a dictatorship.

          • Josey

            In case of school the majority is paying the taxes to support this school, you who don’t want prayer in this school remove your children just as you have asked vice versa for those whose faith speaks against not praying or holding to one’s faith. Take your child to an atheist school if you do not like it and pay your taxes there.

          • gizmo23

            So you don’t believe in freedom of religion?

          • Paige Turner

            Thats not how any of this works. Your religious beliefs do not trump anyones constitutional rights.

            If that was the case then you would need to accomodate all religions including Islam, Hinduism and Judaism and not just Christianity. You would also need to accomodate atheism. This is an unworkable model and as a result, religion is removed. Religion is not necessary in schools, politics or anywhere outside of a church.

            Believe in anything you want, however you need to keep it to yourself or within the walls of your chosen church, temple or mosque.

            Its terrible simple. Its difficult to believe that you’re struggling to grasp this very simple concept.

            Freedom from religion is freedom of religion. Its great to be free of religion.

          • Bryan Handfield

            I think the basis of this argument is the fact these students prayed openly as Christians. Time and time again, I see news reports of students being told its okay to pray to allah, pray to buddha, pray to satan etc.. but pray to Christ openly… Heads are going to roll! Would an atheist be okay with someone praying openly to allah, buddha , satan, etc? Or is it just Christians?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I’m an atheist, and I would be okay with students praying to Allah, Buddha, Satan, Cthulhu or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, as long as they did it without using the school’s facilities, time, or equipment to do it, nor attempt to lead any group of students in prayer unless they were gathered in a space FOR THAT SPECIFIC PURPOSE.

          • Paige Turner

            You do not see any reports of students not being allowed to pray. That is complete nonsense and you are not being persecuted as you portray yourself. Bearing false witness is a big No-No.

            No one is forbidding prayer. The issue was that it was lead by a pastor.

            As I said, A Muslim cleric should also be allowed to lead prayer in the school as well. Same with a Rabbi for Jews. Neither of those things has happen nor will it happen.

            The school is not legally able to show favour to any religion which is what has happened here.

          • Randy Wanat

            The law says student prayer at school must be: voluntary; student-initiated; student-led. Did the original incident that triggered this reaction meet these three basic criteria? Yes or no.

            Demanding that people follow the law is not persecution. Not giving you a privilege is not persecution. Equal treatment under the law is not persecution.

          • acontraryview

            “In case of school the majority is paying the taxes to support this school”

            Both the majority and the minority are paying taxes to support the school. Not just the majority.

            “just as you have asked vice versa for those whose faith speaks against not praying or holding to one’s faith.”

            Who has suggested that children should be banned from praying at school or holding to their faith?

        • Cady555

          How about Christians obey the law, and perhaps learn that secular government cannot promote religion.

          • familyvonbarnhart

            Students have the right to practice their faith – even at school. The 1st amendment to the Constitution clearly states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The school did not break any laws because they did not endorse, initiate, or lead the prayer. The school obviously allows visitors to be in the building. The students initiated the prayer & simply asked the youth pastor to lead it.. Because of these two things, the pastor was not breaking any laws. The school was not promoting any religion, the students were. All individuals have the right to practice their faith (regardless of age or location.) Muslim normally pray on mats 3x a day. Muslim children would have the right to pray during those times, even if they were in school. These students were at lunch during which time they have the right to talk freely and move about the room. They have the legal right to talk therefore they can legally pray out loud. They have the right to form groups – therefore they have the right to pray in groups. Really, in this case, there are no laws being broken.

          • Cady555

            Yes, every student has the right to practice their own religion while at school. They can pray with each other, etc. There is no disagreement.

            And every student has the right to attend school without adults imposing religion on them.

            To protect the rights of all students there are limits on adult conduct. Every right has limits. You can’t shout “Fire!” in a crowded theater. Adults can’t use public schools to promote religion.

            As you pointed out, Muslim students can also pray. But adults cannot tell them it is time to pray or lead them in prayer. One set of rules applied equally.

          • acontraryview

            “Students have the right to practice their faith – even at school. ”

            Within certain guidelines. Just as with all rights, the right to religious expression has restrictions.

          • Randy Wanat

            If it’s not student-initated and student-led, it’s not constitutional. Thank you for accidentally admitting the fatal flaw in your argument. You lose. You get nothing. Good day, sir!

        • Paige Turner

          Ive seen this post before. Cut and paste?

          Perhaps a Muslim call to prayer and a make shift Mosque would be OK too?

          • Pashta

            Actually, yes, a muslim can pray as well. ANY religion can. Get it through your heads.

          • Paige Turner

            The school broke the law. This is about having a pastor lead the prayer. Thats a big No No.

            You can still pray. Just don’t bring in religious leaders into schools to do it.

          • Pashta

            It is NOT the law. Man, you people are seriously ignorant.

          • B1jetmech

            If it was law as these atheist claim then why wasn’t it legislated?

            These atheist support the fact that courts make laws from the bench which is illegal.

          • Randy Wanat

            It’s case law. Or, do you dismiss the entire judicial branch?

          • B1jetmech

            The Judaical branch cannot legislate.

          • Randy Wanat

            Correct. The judicial branch interprets the law. And, remember that case law is how Plessy v. Fergusson made “separate but equal” constitutional, and how Brown v. Board of Ed. made “separate but equal” unconstitutional. You can’t ignore the judicial branch and its role and rulings. To do so is to say that there is no recourse regarding laws and governmental policies that violate the constitution. And, there is no way to even determine if a law or policy violates any constitutionally-protected rights or constitutional restrictions. In other words, your choice to disregard it to make your narrative work is dishonest and stupid, and any person of decent education should hold himself or herself to a higher intellectual standard than that. It’s your prerogative to not do that, but it’s not honest, and it’s not smart. Up to you.

          • B1jetmech

            What part of Article 1 Section 1 of the Constitution do you not understand???

            Courts cannot legislate law, the only reason they’re are doing so is because Congress is too lazy to reassert it ‘s power and limit their jurisdiction on the matter.

            Just because a court rules on a matter doesn’t make it the final arbiter nor the final say…that is left up to congress.

            You claim I disregard to make my narrative work, well you only agree wit the courts because they rule in your favor. I don’t care much for the courts and absolutely have contempt for their power grab, taking power they don’t have and giving power they don’t have.

            Why, because the Constitution is being ignored in many respects…from the tenth amendment to Article 1 section 1 as well as the duties that are spelled out for congress.

            So, I’m not here to surrender more power to the courts because they are out of their bounds in some of the foolish decisions they have made recently.

            You can take it or leave it.

          • Randy Wanat

            Just a hunch…what is your opinion of the federal reserve?

          • B1jetmech

            I really don’t have a opinion on the federal reserve.

            All I know is prior to the federal reserve being established, this nations currency was based off of gold. Many think we should back to that route, however, we had economic recessions with the gold standard.

            Don’t know if it’s any better then the federal reserve then not.

          • Paige Turner

            It kind of is. Pray as much as you like – don’t bring in religious leaders. Simple.

            Law was broken. Deal with the consequences. Not everyone is Christian or interested in it.

          • Josey

            where have you been, that is already going on in this Country with no one saying a word about it, In NYC. hundreds of muslims sat down in a busy district preventing ppl from entering shops while they knelt down chanting to allah. What was done about that, nothing!

          • TheKingOfRhye

            What do you suggest should have been done about it? Other than stopping them from blocking off entrances to businesses? (there’s probably some sort of city ordinance they’d be violating there, I’m sure) If you’re going to say you can’t stop kids from having Christian prayers in schools, then how can you say Muslims don’t have a right to pray in public?

          • Josey

            My point is if this had been a Christian group bowing down in the hundreds praying to Almighty God who alone is God, there would have been arrests or very least they would have been told to disperse.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            What evidence can you cite for that? Do you have any examples of such a thing happening? Maybe it would surprise you, but I do believe in religious freedom, for all religions, equally. Muslims, Christians, Jews, etc, etc, all have the freedom to pray in the streets if they wish. (keep in mind that’s a whole different thing from kids praying in school)

          • Paige Turner

            What are you talking about?

            A “busy district” is not a school. This is about schools. The school cannot support bringing in a pastor. As to your assertion about the muslim prayer – there is nothing to back that up.

        • gizmo23

          Do you even have a concept of rights?

          • Josey

            yes rights for all ppl, but in this case federal government should not be involved, it is up to the states and parents that pay the taxes of this school have a say over the few if any that had a problem with this. Most likely it was those who were not even involved in the prayer that threw the fit about it. I also know sharia law is going in muslim communities and nothing is done about that, this is clearly persecution of these young ppl’s right to practice their faith on their lunch hour.

          • gizmo23

            I pay taxes to the fed which in turn sends money to all states and 99% of school districts. The feds have every right to intervene in civil rights issues as per the constitution

      • Paige Turner

        And how would you feel if this was an Islamic prayer meeting and it was a make shift mosque with a call to prayer?

        • Cady555

          We are in complete agreement. While Islamic kids are free to pray, it would be wrong for an adult to come into a public school and encourage other people’s kids to pray to his god.

          It is wrong for an adult to lead prayer in a public school, no matter which God is prayed to.

    • Reason0verhate

      To establish a theocracy, of course.

      Better kill all the Christians and get it over with.

  • Mark Moore

    We have to show those atheists that they can’t be free of our perfect religion.

    • Jalapeno

      Why do you feel the need to push it on other people?

      I’m sure you’d like to be free from other peoples religions…

    • Randy Wanat

      I can’t wait for the Satanists to show you that you can’t be free of their perfect religion.

      • Jeff Jankowiak

        hmph

      • Paige Turner

        We should set up a mosque and have a call to prayer 5 times a day and use prayer mats. If its good enough for the Christians then its good enough for Muslims.

        • Pashta

          Again – muslims have the right to pray, just like everybody else.

          • Paige Turner

            This is not about the right to prayer. This is about a school sanctioning a pastor to come in and lead the prayer. Thats a big No No.

            Would the school allow a Muslim cleric in to lead the call to prayer or even have a call to prayer?

    • acontraryview

      LOL

  • gui1hermegano

    Same old same old.
    Atheists spewing their hate and intolerance.
    Give them political power, they build gulags and commit genocide.

    • Randy Wanat

      How is demanding that everybody follow the law “hate and intolerance?” Do you think teaching kids that the law doesn’t count when it prevents you from doing something you want to do is a good example? And, if Satanists came in to lead cafeteria prayers to Satan by invitation of a student club, that would be equally welcome? Really? Based on how you have reacted thus far, the truth is obvious.

      • Jeff Jankowiak

        Another trashy little HIV-spreading troll.
        Don’t you creeps have some porn sites you can hang out on?

      • familyvonbarnhart

        If the school allows visitors inside the building, (which obviously they do) then there is no legal reason to restrict someone because of his vocation. Although the article doesn’t specify, he may be a father to one of the children. (youth pastors are notorious for having children.) Since the students initiated the request for him to lead them in prayer, then it is very questionable that any laws were broken. But despite that, the youth pastor has said he will not lead prayer again. (even if he had the legal right to do so.) I certainly don’t see anyone teaching the students to disregard the law., quite the contrary, I see the adults behaving as adults & upholding the law. Students do have a legal right to pray at school, It might be worth noting that they also are not breaking any laws. So where is the “hate & intolerance”? I don’t see any. I just see students being themselves and living out their faith.

        • acontraryview

          “If the school allows visitors inside the building, (which obviously they do) then there is no legal reason to restrict someone because of his vocation.”

          This issue was not allowing someone to come into the school. It was what that individual was doing on school property.

          “Since the students initiated the request for him to lead them in prayer, then it is very questionable that any laws were broken.”

          It is not relevant that the students invited the person.

          “But despite that, the youth pastor has said he will not lead prayer again. (even if he had the legal right to do so.)”

          What legal right are you referring to?

          “Students do have a legal right to pray at school,”

          Within certain guidelines.

        • Randy Wanat

          Students may engage in student-led prayer at school during school hours or school events. Ignoring the law does not change the law.

        • wandakate

          This organization can’t stop these kids from their prayers!!!!!They DO NOT and CAN NOT control what goes on in their minds, or what they believe either. Just who do these people think they are sending all of these letters to everybody demanding that they stop doing certain things that they consider right? They are NOT GOD, and they need to keep their thoughts, laws, and beliefs up in Wisconsin. What they do in Missouri is none of their concern.
          There can always be a time out for personal prayer to GOD/JESUS in the classroom. A 2 or 3 minute time out, quiet in the room, and each one prays to him or herself during that time if they choose to do so. NOBODY is going to stop that, that is their right.
          KUDOS for Hollister, which is right outside of Branson, Mo. for standing up and doing what they felt was right. My new book talks about this very sort of issue. The truth will set them free. We still have some freedom left, let’s use it while we are able to, stand up for what it RIGHT, b/c these people and others like them will take away ALL of our freedom if we sit down, shut up, and allow them to do it.
          Continue doing what you are doing even if it’s done in silence, this Wisconsin group can’t do ANYTHING about that. I will pray whenever I feel like it to GOD/JESUS and nobody is going to stop that. What is in our heads is our own business and not any of theirs.
          GOD will take care of these people who try to bring in evil (from the devil) and they will ALL face JESUS on judgment day. I would NOT want to be in their shoes!!!
          Missouri is a strong state, they have good morals for the most part, a good mayor there, a good governor and good council members that hopefully will stand up for the schools and do the right thing, otherwise they too will be accountable to GOD for this mishaps and lies.

          • gizmo23

            Nobody is stopping the kids from praying

          • wandakate

            That is true right now, but the bottom line is, they want to stop all Christian activity in schools and everywhere else. What authority do these people have? The school needs to put their foot down and not cower to these people who demand this and demand that…I would think the Principal, the Mayor, the council members, the governor and the senators of Missouri would have the final say. IF there is atheist freedom then there is also religious freedom. It’s like at the bakery, if there is a Peanut Butter Cookie then there is also a Chocolate Chip Cookie. People make their own choices and live with the consequences in the end.
            IF they could stop the kids from praying they would do it in a heartbeat!!!

          • gizmo23

            There is no move to stop anyone from praying. This is hype to stir people up

      • concerned

        The atheists should have their own group…no need for them to be in the group with the Christians.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          What “group” are you talking about? This happened in the school cafeteria, during a lunch period.

        • Randy Wanat

          The group? They’re eating lunch in the cafeteria. Anybody not participating isn’t invading the pastor-led prayer session. They have every right to be able to eat their meals in the cafeteria. You’re actually saying that anybody who doesn’t want in on the praying should leave. A minority of the students are creating a ruckus, and in an illegal manner, and your solution is for everyone who is NOT breaking the law to get out. Do you understand how backwards that is?

        • wandakate

          You got that right, as there is NO commonality whatsoever with light and dark. The atheist and the Christians are about as far apart as the Atlantic is from the Pacific Ocean. These kids have a right to their minds, their own religion and prayer. It can be a silent prayer with time out for that, if that is what has to be, but their prayers CANNOT be stopped.
          GOOD for them, and I hope they will continue to do what is right, and not follow satan the evil god of this world.

          • concerned

            No commonality is right. They’re as different as Heaven and Hell.

    • The Last Trump

      And create “Freedom From Whatever I Disagree With Foundations”!
      Hee, hee! Not the best examples of free thinkers and lovers of freedom are they?
      Not surprising. The fearful and the cowardly are known to promote the banning of things.
      It’s high time somebody created a ‘Freedom From The FFRF Foundation’ to return these intolerant fascists back to the totalitarian rock they crawled out from under.

      However, it is extremely enjoyable to watch God flip their desperate and transparent intentions back on them resulting in MORE praying and MORE free publicity for prayer and Christianity in general.

      Keep up the good work, intolerant ones! Thanks for helping to spread the gospel!
      Hee, hee! Priceless! 🙂

      • Randy Wanat

        Was the prayer led by the pastor? Yes or no.

      • wandakate

        And ALL of GOD’s people said “AMEN”. Witness, testify, and shout to the LORD. Right is now wrong, and wrong is now right, but does it have to continue to be this way? With students like they have in Hollister, Missouri I am proud to be a retired elementary school teacher. That is a fine group of youth, and they are making me PROUD. I taught school in Florida and in Virginia both, but never in Missouri. I have however live out in Branson which is just north of Hollister and I’ve been through there many times. GOOD people out in that area. I do believe that just ONE SCHOOL can make a difference for the LORD, and He will surely bless them for their efforts.
        The FFR people in Wisconsin have a lot of nerve. WHO do they think they are GOD? They demand this and they don’t like that, and they do like something else, and it seems to me that NONE of it is any good. May they stay in Wisconsin where they are, and stop meddling in other peoples business. If they are they way they are that’s their business, and if somebody else is another way that’s their business. We should take care of ourselves and mind our own business.
        KUDOS TO THE MIDDLE SCHOOL IN HOLLISTER!!! You have my admiration… I live in North Carolina now, but am seriously thinking of coming back to Missouri. Beautiful country out there, GOD’s COUNTRY.

    • gizmo23

      I’m sure you would be happy if wiccans, Muslims, etc came in and did prayers. Yoh might not like it if Catholic priests came in and offered prayers to Mary

      • wandakate

        There is only ONE GOD to pray to. Wiccans don’t pray to GOD, they worship nature, and Mary can’t forgive our sins either. JESUS said, “the way to the FATHER is through the SON.”
        “I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes to the FATHER but by me.”

        • TheKingOfRhye

          Irrelevant. Those of other faiths have as much of a right to pray in school as Christians do. It doesn’t matter if you think they’re praying to a false god or however you’d put it.

        • gizmo23

          It doesn’t matter what a speaker believes. If you let one in you have to let all. I know plenty of students that would invite a satanist just to stir up trouble. No place for any of this in school

          • wandakate

            JESUS is on my mind no matter whether I’m in a school, a church, my neighborhood, at the movie, at the mall, wherever. There should always be a place for JESUS. But I am sure that is correct that they would invite one just to cause trouble, b/c most teenagers don’t know what they’re doing and want to have fun and sometimes that does involve causing trouble (in their immature minds).

          • gizmo23

            That’s how teenagers work

    • Frank Dorka

      More death has been committed in the name of a god than for any other reason.Grasp reality. Christian tyranny runs this nation.

  • David Parsons (Revd)

    Guess they were threatened with a gun if they didn’t attend.

    • Randy Wanat

      It’s not about being voluntary. Ignoring the law doesn’t change the law. Don’t you think you should be more intellectually honest than that and represent the facts accurately?

      • Jeff Jankowiak

        Pssy fggot

      • familyvonbarnhart

        Well, being honest would be admitting that students have the legal right to pray both silently and out loud at lunch. They have the legal right to pray in a group at lunch. No one is ignoring the laws.

        • Randy Wanat

          Yes, they do have that right. A right, at school, to student-led prayer. That is the fact being ignored, and ignoring that fact is dishonest. Being required to follow the law is not persecution, and omitting facts to create a persecution narrative is dishonest.

  • Chike Chiemela

    But is Christianity supposed to be a religion or a practical way of life under the direction of the Holy Spirit? However, the Bible tells us that we will be persecuted even as the disciples and Jesus Christ himself was persecuted but the prayer of the saints is that we stand strong and look up to Jesus Christ as the author and finisher of our faith in times like this in Jesus Christ name… Amen.

    • Randy Wanat

      Following the law isn’t persecution. That law protects you and your beliefs, and others of other persuasions. If you want special treatment for your particular religion, that is theocracy, and that is unAmerican.

      • familyvonbarnhart

        The Establishment clause of the 1st amendment states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” That second part is just as important as the first. Following the law means we allow student to freely exercise their faith/religious practices. We allow Jewish children to bring special food to school during Passover. Schools located in a strong Catholic parish often serve meatless meals on Friday during Lent so as not to prevent Catholic children for practicing their faith. Allowing students to pray in groups during lunch – a time when students are already allowed to talk & get up & move around freely – is upholding the law, nor breaking it. It isn’t “special treatment”. There could be several groups each praying on their own – perhaps not all to the “Christian” G-d. Just because there is no Hindu- Buddhist – Jewish – or even as you earlier suggest Satanist – students are forming groups & praying, that does not give the school legal cause to prohibit the free exercise of the religion that the students who want to pray seem to share. It does not exablish a theocracy when students chose to exercise their faith as long as it is student initiated, which was clearly the case in this situation.

        • acontraryview

          “Following the law means we allow student to freely exercise their faith/religious practices.”

          Actually, that is not what it means. As with all rights, there are restrictions.

          “that does not give the school legal cause to prohibit the free exercise of the religion that the students who want to pray seem to share.”

          The issue is not about students praying. It is about an outside pastor coming into the school to lead the students in prayer.

          • Pashta

            You’re WRONG. Read the first amendment!

          • Ambulance Chaser

            We’ve all read the First Amendment. The problem is, it’s extremely broad, without a single word one way or another about youth pastors in school cafeterias. That’s why we need case law, to clarify it.

            Luckily, we have plenty of that. I suggest you read Lee v. Weisman and Santa Fe ISD v. Doe.

          • acontraryview

            I’m quite familiar with the 1st Amendment.

            What did I say that was wrong?

          • Pashta

            There are NO restrictions at all on the free practice of religion. ZERO.

          • acontraryview

            So human sacrifice is OK? I can go out in front of my house at 3 am with a bullhorn and start praying using it? Churches can ring their bells at any hour of the night or day? I can stand up in a restaurant and start praying out loud? I can come on to your property and hold a religious service? A kid in school can stand up during the middle of class and start praying?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Completely and utterly false. There are many practices that are prohibited in the United States, and no one gets to claim “But it’s my religion” in order to be free from prosecution for doing them.

            Reynolds v. United States held that a law of neutral applicability, banning a certain practice, could not be circumvented simply because the accused claimed that his religion commands him to engage in that practice.

        • Randy Wanat

          Students are allowed to pray. This has not changed. You are ignoring that fact. Student prayer must be student-led.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Student-initiated, student-led, and without using the school’s facilities, without interfering with the school day, and without any mark whatsoever that the school approves of the prayer.

          • Randy Wanat

            Exactly. Ignoring these conditions is dishonest. Either you know better and misrepresent the facts, or you don’t care if you say things that are not true so you don’t verify your feelings versus reality. Either way, dishonest. Certainly, a reverend, as some symbol of piety and goodness, should hold himself to a higher standard than either of those. Same goes for everybody. Whether you lie or don’t care about being accurate, you should hold yourself to a higher standard. Perhaps, if they can stop crying “persecution” every time they’re told to follow the law, they can find it in themselves to have more integrity. It would be nice.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          “Allowing students to pray in groups during lunch – a time when students are already allowed to talk & get up & move around freely – is upholding the law, nor breaking it.”

          And if this were simply an issue of students praying quietly, among themselves, you’d have a point. But it’s not. A pastor came to the school, asked the students to stop what they were doing and stand up, then began an uninterrupted prayer, audible to the entire cafeteria. That’s not “students praying in groups.”

          • Pashta

            You said “And if this were simply an issue of students praying quietly, among themselves, you’d have a point. But it’s not. A pastor came to the school, asked the students to stop what they were doing and stand up, then began an uninterrupted prayer, audible to the entire cafeteria. That’s not ‘students praying in groups.'”

            That is NOT WHAT HAPPENED. You are just a troll. Not responding to you anymore.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            OK, if that’s not what happened, then please, educate me as to what did.

          • John Bailey

            It does say in the article that a student asked the pastor to lead them in prayer. That sounds like it fits the definition of student initiated

          • Ambulance Chaser

            It might, but so what? “Student initiated” is not an automatic, get-out-of-jail free card for violating the Establishment Clause. I again refer you to Santa Fe ISD v. Doe.

          • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

            Your interpretation of the Establishment Clause that is.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            No, the Supreme Court’s.

          • Randy Wanat

            Student-initated AND student-led. Who led the prayer, again? Remind us.

          • Cady555

            Look at the picture.

        • getstryker

          Accurate and very well said.

  • Psygn

    I’m the courts will clear up any legal misunderstandings.

    • Guest

      No need, the district has already stopped the evangelical group from sending ministers into the schools themselves and admitted their error in allowing it.

      Of course the students can have prayers like this that are student led and had been previously. What they can’t do is have any school employee or outside adult authorized to be there lead the prayer.

      This looks like just an oversight, the district knows they were wrong to give the evangelical group access to the students during school hours and have taken corrective action.

      • Psygn

        Sounds good to me, the students are all free to exercise their Constitutional rights.

  • Dan Jones

    Praise God Christians are starting to do it the right way… If you want to know how you are supposed to act, read Acts…

    Always be a light that is shininginthedark.

    • Randy Wanat

      Silently in the closet at home, not out loud in public like the hypocrites.

  • MikanJeni Cagle

    Freedom from atheism needs to be established. For there is no more incontrovertible proof that God doesn’t exist than there is proof that He does. Therefore the belief in His nonexistence is just as much a “religion” as the belief in God. And just as susceptible to the laws prohibiting said “religions”.

    • acontraryview

      “Therefore the belief in His nonexistence is just as much a “religion” as the belief in God.”

      Your logic is faulty. Religion: “the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.”

      Atheism is the opposite of that.

      • Christopher Cross

        Religion isn’t just a belief in a deity. It has more to with the rituals nd ceremonies. If the Satanists are not lying hen they are an atheistic religion. Now seeing how some will tell me I have to take people at face value regardless of what their actions shows then why would this not apply with Satanists as well.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          There are atheist religions, but atheism in itself is not a religion.

          • Christopher Cross

            Yes you just said what I did.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Yeah, I noticed that you said that after I typed that, so never mind….lol

    • Paige Turner

      Atheism is not a religion. Belief in non existence is not a belief therefore its not a religion. There is no deity, no temple or church and no tax deduction for atheists.

      If it is a religion then you should have no problem with a tax exemption for atheists.

      You are free to believe in anything you want. You are not, however able to impose that on others as you are trying here.

      America has freedom of and freedom from religion. Its elegant in its simplicity.

      • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

        Atheism is a religion due to the fact that it cannot be proven just as God, Allah, Zues, Satan, and many others cannot be proven or disproven, it is a belief based on the individual believing in nothing, which in and of itself is a faith.

        • Paige Turner

          That is the most tortured argument I have ever heard. You are saying that because something cannot be proven, then by extension it must be a religion. *shakes head in disbelief*

          Atheism is a lack of faith. Lack of something does not need to be proven. It is self evident. You on the other hand will snuggle to prove evidence of a deity but by all means go ahead and try.

          • Christopher Cross

            You pick and chose definitions so that you can’t recognize that it takes more to make a religion. I concur atheism isn’t a religion in it self. But not believing in a deity doesn’t mean you can’t be religious.

          • Paige Turner

            More tortured arguments however Im not surprised as this is the same technique used to interpret the bible which is just basically a “choose the bits you like, ignore the rest”.

          • Christopher Cross

            No it is actually what you have done is pick the one definition of the word religion and act like that is all that it means. I bet you are a progressive and probably a feminist.

          • Paige Turner

            No – and yes.

          • Christopher Cross

            Now notice how the first one a God or anything like that isn’t necessary. It is just usually is.

            1.

            a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

            2.

            a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
            the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

            3.

            the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:
            a world council of religions.

            4.

            the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.:
            to enter religion.

            5.

            the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

            6.

            something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:

          • Paige Turner

            Thanks for the cut and paste

          • Christopher Cross

            Your welcome maybe I should of tried to link it like I tried with the Satanist info. lol I think they would of not blocked that. lol

          • Paige Turner

            They aren’t fans of satan. Hes more fun at parties than the alternatives though

          • Christopher Cross

            I realized they would block it as it went straight into review. lol

          • Paige Turner

            Why do you keep laughing?

          • Christopher Cross

            I thought the situation funny what you don’t? Well what a bummer you are! I thought with that Satan joke and all you would be more fun then that.

          • Paige Turner

            Jesus! Glory!

          • Christopher Cross

            Now there was no need for such underhand crap. But as long as you got a kick out of that silly little move as if I care about your silly little games. You have proven yourself just a little kid in my view. Now go have fun playing with your toys now.

          • Christopher Cross

            No, you are just being childish and that is all it is. You said something I took as being a smartass and I liked it then you changed it like the little mental baby you are. Now what I would like you do has nothing what so ever to do with this and you should know that. and I think you do. But you just want to try to play baby games. So do you have anything else childish to say?

          • Paige Turner

            Potty mouth language isn’t allowed here. Please ask God for forgiveness and atone for your sins immediately.

          • Christopher Cross

            It is another term for a donkey which you can find in the bible!

          • Paige Turner

            Thats so funny! You’ve made my day.

            Peace be with you.

          • Christopher Cross

            It is good to know I made the day of someone who slanders others. Later

          • Paige Turner

            Such wild and baseless allegations.

          • Christopher Cross

            We both know that your statement is false.

          • Christopher Cross

            ell when I tell them my name they do think that I am calling myself Christ but that is a misunderstanding as it should translate to Christian. Though that may still cause them confusion. I guess you know how they feel.

          • Christopher Cross

            Why do you keep editing everything to pull of your slanderous game?

          • Paige Turner

            What are you talking about?

            Your posts are getting more and more unhinged thats for sure.

          • Christopher Cross

            That is blatant dishonesty. Are you erasing your previous post yet or have you not thought that far ahead?

          • Christopher Cross

            Sorry that you are so far left that you think you’re smarter or that you listen to someone that thinks they are smarter than those that wrote the dictionary.

          • Paige Turner

            Only Jesus and God can help you with all that pent up rage.

          • Christopher Cross

            what are you going on about you are the one acting like an angry toddler.

          • Paige Turner

            Who wrote the dictionary?

          • Christopher Cross

            Do you even know what those mean.

          • Paige Turner

            Second request: Who wrote the dictionary?
            Your last post said that I was smarter than than those who wrote the dictionary. I just wanted to know who that was given that it was a wild statement and that you are prone to making then without any basis or facts.

          • Christopher Cross

            I think you meant I make them without. No but it is you that have no bases for your usage of the word you use. As we all well know their isn’t just one dictionary and I would have to do a lot of searching for such information . Also once again a doubt isn’t a claim.

          • Paige Turner

            So you don’t know who wrote the dictionary but you know that I am smarter than whomever wrote it but there is more than one. This is what you have said.

            You also have no back up, facts or evidence for any doubts (claims or otherwise) that you make.

            Its not going too well is it?

          • Christopher Cross

            I never said you were smarter I said I bet you think you are or listen to someone else that does. The reason for that i would think that is you seem to use your own made up diffenition of word as you lack the understanding of what they mean.

          • Paige Turner

            The question remains for you. Who wrote the dictionary? You make accusations and throw around insults but can never back them up or address direct questions.

          • Christopher Cross

            No I don’t have to answer your dumb___ little question to claims I have never made.

          • Paige Turner

            You really are not a very good Christian saying things like that.

          • Christopher Cross

            No that isn’t what I wrote. It says what I said it did also thickheaded means stubborn not stupid or having poor grammar. Which I will not argue that . Also I don’t have to explain the reasons for my doubts to you. We can’t have a discussion because you lack basic grasp of the words we are using. maybe you should try to copy and paste my responses since you fail to have the honesty to represent them properly.

          • Christopher Cross

            Sorry that you are so far left that you think you’re smarter or that you listen to someone that thinks they are smarter than those that wrote the dictionary. Wow it said what I said it did and not what you said. imagine that.

          • Paige Turner

            I grasp the words very clearly however when I ask you for clarification or explanation you wont address anything or explain. You then insult me and call me names.

          • Christopher Cross

            No that isn’t what happened.

          • Paige Turner

            So what did happen?

          • Paige Turner

            So what did happen?

          • Paige Turner

            *there

            Your grammar is atrocious. You don’t know which “to, too or two” to use or the difference between “there or their” and yet you have the temerity to call me insulting names questioning my intelligence. Very hypocritical.

          • Christopher Cross

            I do know which ones to use some times when I am typing fast I type the wrong words. I sometimes type an I when I want to type an A and I know the difference of all of hose words.

          • Christopher Cross

            Also it won’t show me my reply for some reason so then I can’t correct it.

          • Christopher Cross

            See this is still a false claim proof I said that!

          • Christopher Cross

            I have only mocked you and maybe myself. I believe it is you that is mocking him in my opinion as I think you are an atheist.

          • Paige Turner

            More baseless allegations. Obama, Hillary and now me. It seems that everyone is an atheist based on “because I think they are”. Not very scientific or factual.

          • Christopher Cross

            Doubt to be uncertain about; consider questionable or unlikely; hesitate to believe.

          • Paige Turner

            Baseless, without facts, evidence or proof.

            Basically, its just whatever you think.

          • Christopher Cross

            No I have reasons based on what people say. What they say is a fact.

          • Paige Turner

            “What people say” is not proof or fact. You just think something so therefore it must be true. Fantasies are for children.

          • Christopher Cross

            It is a fact that you just said what you did. I really don’t know what to call someone who can’t see that so I just go with you’re a dolt. now what someone else says about what you say that isn’t. That is the reason there are laws against hearsay. See I am saying it is their own words yet I didn’t have to say anything because I haven’t made a claim about them.

          • Christopher Cross

            Why did they lie about the connection between that video and Benghazi? Why did the maker go to jail. When have you heard a Christian say that the future doesn’t belong to those that insult the prophet of islam. Which even some atheist should take notice of. Why didn’t they tell us it was a terrorist attack. Now this are actions I would not take because I try to be Christ like which is the mean of being Christian. Now some people sometimes do unchristian thing but are still Christians even though they are not being what the are. With Hillary I have the added fact that the only time I have heard her say that was when it would be beneficial for her politically. Now for me that is reason to doubt. beside if I don’t want to believe what some one says I can do that foe no reason if I want to. Let them prove the claims since they have made them.

          • Paige Turner

            Not sure what that is all about.

            You said that Obama and Hillary aren’t Christians but you have no proof – Its just something you made up.

            Now you have gone on a rant about a whole lot of irrelevant nonsense which still comes down to “because I said so”.

          • Christopher Cross

            I don’t have to have any reason not to believe someone. Maybe they just wasn’t very convincing. No I didn’t say they wasn’t we already cleared that up. I said I was unsure of their claim which you fail to grasp how much of a difference the two things are.

          • Christopher Cross

            Well, I can’t help it that you aren’t aware of what all is going on in the world. Why and how are you so isolated.

          • Christopher Cross

            Do your own research as I only said I doubted which I don’t have to prove and we know why.

          • Paige Turner

            You said that the onus of proof is on the person making the claim – which is you.

            In other words you have nothing except a feeling.

          • Christopher Cross

            No I mean I made no claim as we have both agreed. Call doubt what you will. If I did make any such thing now you prove your claim that is what I made. Copy paste my word right under here. But I no you want dare.

          • Paige Turner

            *know

            You are really sloppy today.

            You get a C-

          • Christopher Cross

            Prove that’s what I said and not what I claimed I said all along. Copy and paste what I said. That is the only way to carry on.

          • Christopher Cross

            Also the burden of proof is on the one who makes a claim and not the one who doubts it. LOL

          • Paige Turner

            Thats correct. So please provide proof that Obama and Hillary aren’t Christians.

          • Christopher Cross

            There are the ones that made a claim.

          • Paige Turner

            *They

          • Christopher Cross

            Now you are saying Yes the burden of proof is on the one that made a claim and not the one who doubts that claim now I want proof for why you doubt their claim. lol

          • Christopher Cross

            That’s

          • Paige Turner

            Thanks

          • Christopher Cross

            Read that last sentence of yours.

          • Paige Turner

            Yes.

            And?

          • Christopher Cross

            This isn’t what you said here when I disliked it.

          • Paige Turner

            Yes it is. You keep finishing sentences with LOL which means you are either. laughing at the end of each sentence, you don’t know what it means or you are 12 years old.

          • Christopher Cross

            No it was just like your Holy! Jesus! post see I copied and saved it! Then you changed it to say Satan! I copied and pasted that too. So you know what you can do LOL!

          • Paige Turner

            So what are you going to do with all the cutting and pasting?

          • Christopher Cross

            There’re your words.

          • Paige Turner

            Peace be with you

          • Paige Turner

            Glory!

          • Christopher Cross

            Laugh out loud: I use to show things like jokes and sarcasm as some people don’t get that stuff sometimes.

          • Paige Turner

            Thats so cruel. How could you do that?

          • Christopher Cross

            No you used it as a tactic after you lost the debate.

          • Paige Turner

            He did too. He was mean.

          • Paige Turner

            Excellent cutting and pasting. Well done.

          • Christopher Cross

            Yes and from the dictionary. Once again though you haven’t actual replied to it.

          • Paige Turner

            And who wrote that dictionary? According to you I am smarter than the author.

          • Christopher Cross

            Not responding to you on this you didn’t copy in paste what I said, So prove it is what I said since this is your claim.

          • Paige Turner

            Again with the poor grammar.

            Im giving you a C- for this work.

          • Christopher Cross

            the act of alleging; affirmation. those two words doesn’t mean the same thing not even close try another word to make your false accusations. I thought you were because you are arguing that side of things if not my bad but it isn’t baseless. Do you know what that word means? maybe you should look up think as well. If you are not then my bad sorry. I am unsure though so take that and run with it as foolishly as you have those other words.

          • Paige Turner

            Sentences start with capital letters but my guess here is that you have cut and pasted from a website due to laziness. Very disappointing grammar, punctuation and use of language.

          • Christopher Cross

            The first part is copied. But yes the sentence I wrote after that I got to much in a rush typing it at the same time as my keyboard messing up and someone keep sending me other replies.. You see that is an Ad Hominem as you didn’t address my point.. And from now on if you say I said something I will only comment back if you copy and paste my remark.

          • Paige Turner

            So you are a plagiarist. Very Christian of you.

          • Christopher Cross

            I never claimed I think those two are Atheists. Don’t put words to my credit that were never typed by me.

          • Paige Turner

            So if they are not Christians then what are they?

            I hope that you’re not going to try all that “Obama is a Muslim” nonsense.

            That is completely crazy, tin foil hat wearing, conspiracy theory nonsense.

          • Christopher Cross

            NO I don’t know that and I don’t care I didn’t say they were anything. So I owe you no answer.

          • Paige Turner

            Whoa – you’re really out there!

          • Christopher Cross

            Besides them being politician is reason enough for me. They show themselves lairs time and time again.

          • Christopher Cross

            Cruz sounds like a TV evangelist. Not sure what to think of Trump.

          • Christopher Cross

            I have mocked only you and maybe myself on here. Though if I have mocked you it has been in direct response to you.

          • Christopher Cross

            You are crazy if you get that from anything I said. Sometimes you feel like a nut. lol

          • Christopher Cross

            The situation was the link that I used as a source and we both know that had nothing to do with jokes about sex or any such thing you are very dishonest person and maybe a troll who thinks I am mad yet you are not smart enough for that. you troll.

          • Paige Turner

            Name calling again! Abuse is not very Christian of you.

          • Christopher Cross

            No, because it is true my friend.

          • Paige Turner

            I know. Peace be with you.

          • Christopher Cross

            Wow’ you hurt my poor little feelings with your crappy untrue word. I am crying so very hard. I might not have any reason to go LOL Wow though really after all of the crap you have been trying to pull right now and you think your funny I bet right. No you try to sit on your high horse but you have proven you have no moral high ground. Yet I have never acted that way to you. I just was up for a little debate and you lost. So now you resort to these type of games.

          • Paige Turner

            Its OK – Things are tough for you. Sorry your feelings are hurt. Try not to lash out too much again.

          • Christopher Cross

            Wow you are to dense to get blatant sarcasm. Dang are you thickheaded.

          • Paige Turner

            *too

            The irony that you are saying that Im dense and a “thickhead” and your grammar is this bad should not be lost on you.

          • Christopher Cross

            No I was going to correct that typo but I got too side tract to do so for some reason I wonder who could of done that.. But thanks I get on that soon maybe.

          • Paige Turner

            However you did not correct it and I had to after you insulted me and resorted to name calling and ad hominem. Very poor form.

          • Christopher Cross

            Actually I did. And no Ad hominem is when I use an attack and don’t try to instead of disputing you.. I have only used them with my rebuttals. Let me give you an example. you make a argument and I reply. Your are an idiot thereby trying to dismiss your point instead of addressing it. . That is an Ad hominem attack. However it isn’t if I add insults into my argument whether you agree with it or not has nothing to do with that..

          • Christopher Cross

            They both mean that too. Neither one means stupid though many confuse those two things..

          • Christopher Cross

            Another act of slander and you editing something I liked afterwards. You earned those names by your slanders and underhanded tactics.

          • Christopher Cross

            After thanking me yesterday for copying and pasting now it becomes only this. you never asked for anything. I was sourcing what I was saying. if you want anything more than this look it up yourself. I know you hardly do so on your side. you haven’t backed up any of your claims. Also acting like you don’t know what The word they are defining now. Yet we both know.

          • Christopher Cross

            I am sure the online dictionary I got it from would see it as using it as I resource unless I claim it as my own. But yes I should at least show where I got it like give it link.

      • Christopher Cross

        Satanist are by their own word is an atheistic religion

        • Paige Turner

          No they are not.

          • Christopher Cross

            What are they not what they claim? Do they not share the same beliefs? Do they not promote rituals and ceremonies? If it is the first how does this not fit the faulty no true Scotsman fallacy.

          • Paige Turner

            Satanists aren’t organised into tax exempt churches like Christians.
            You do approve of tax exempt status for satanists don’t you? Seems fair.

          • Christopher Cross

            I am not really for tax-exemption and I am not sure how fair taxes are.

          • Paige Turner

            Atheism is not a religion

          • Christopher Cross

            Did you not read what I wrote I never said atheism was. Now did I. Are you like a teenager or something or maybe that was your way of trying to push back? Maybe your think of the original discussion you where in. We was discussing what that word means and if an atheist or an atheist organization could be. Maybe you failed to take it all in before replying.

          • Paige Turner

            Your name is funny

          • Christopher Cross

            That is my real name. You don’t have to be a jerk you know. LOL LOL

          • Paige Turner

            Paige is my real name too. And its my real picture. LOL.

          • Randy Wanat

            Actually, The Satanic Temple is a certified 501c3 non-profit under the church category. So…

          • Paige Turner

            Good to know, thanks.

          • Christopher Cross

            Now on top of that you are trying to paint me as a Satanist because you are being a weak minded fool. I am the Christian here and you an atheist that has resorted to slander. I guess you don’t know you can look all this stuff up sorry that your intellect is so stunted!

          • Paige Turner

            It sounds like you’re regretting turning your back on God our saviour now that Satan has forsaken you. Come back to Jesus and have your sins cleansed.

          • Christopher Cross

            Your are a slanders punk thug. You think you are so cute and smart yet you are only resorting to such tactics because you can’t debate the points I gave you. yet I gave you a way out. All you have to do is point out how there are flaws in the No true Scotsman fallacy. Let me help you out here. It compares things that you never really have any choice in to something that you do have a choice in. The second flaw is people can make false claims. For instance I really doubt Hillary Clinton and Obama’s claim of Christianity.

          • Paige Turner

            How do you know that Clinton & Obama are not Christian? Do you have some kind of psychic ability? Did they tell you?

            Neither of them are Scotsmen.

            You were also very rude with your name calling too. Clearly Satan still has a hold on you. 🙂

          • Christopher Cross

            You can’t be sure of that they might be descended from one. It is the fact of their word and actions. You know their fruit. Where have you been and why do you not know of this faulty fallacy? Maybe your lack of knowledge?

          • Christopher Cross

            And I never said they are not just that I have my doubts learn what words actually means before you come at someone like this.

          • Paige Turner

            You doubt their claim – This is what you said.

            Based on what facts or evidence?

          • Christopher Cross

            I already answered this I will not do so again and doubting isn’t the same as claiming that you know something. Dolt!

          • Paige Turner

            So you have no facts or evidence to back up your claim?

            Interesting.

          • Christopher Cross

            I told words and actions as I have said besides it isn’t a claim. it is being unsure about something that is what the word doubt means. Do you ever look things up before you spout off your foolishness?

  • Reason2012

    “No religious organization should have direct access to students at school.”

    But it’s ok for perversion activists to have access to everyone else’s kids and grandkids and instead fill their minds with images and ideas of homosexuality. Google homosexual kindergarten and be flooded with growing list of cases where they’re doing just that. God is out,replaced by homosexual perversion instead.

    Get active, America – your kids and grand-kids are under siege by the anti-God perversion activists.

    • Paige Turner

      Nonsense.

      You cannot make someone gay just like you cannot make someone left handed or blue eyed. Educating children about different people harms no one. Many gay couples are raising happy, healthy children.

      • Reason2012

        Nice opinion, but the FACTS are people on their own continue to turn away from homosexuality just like they turn away from being attracted to young people instead of adults, or being attracted to abusive people, proving time and again homosexuality is not an orientation any more than those other things are, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

        Google ex-gay and be flooded with the testimonies of even the most die-hard homosexual activists who have overcome same-gender attractions, proving it’s not genetic.

        Activists will pretend there are hardly any such testimonies, but anyone can do a search and see otherwise.

        Or activists will pretend they’re now bisexual.

        The activists seem to hate those who overcome homosexuality. So how does it hurt them that others have turned away from it? Why do they hate them so much?

        Is it because if there are any that DO turn away from it it proves it’s not genetic (which is does) and hence they have less of an excuse to remain stuck in it?

        Is it because it ruins the talking point that it’s supposedly genetic and hence demands legal enforcement of societal acceptance?

        And how does it factor in that it IS genetic fact that a person is a male or female, but if a person instead claims to FEEL like they’re the opposite, then genetic fact is thrown out the window as FEELINGS are the supposed REAL truth? So what if someone doesn’t FEEL like they want those attractions anymore?

        So of course when this blatant dishonest hypocrisy is exposed, they’ll try to say “well if he doesn’t want to ACT on being a homosexual that doesn’t mean he’s not one”. But that’s more hypocrisy: Apply that logic to transgenders: So if a transgender doesn’t want to act like a male anymore because he FEELS like he’s a female, does that mean that’s also a lie as well and he’s really still a male only acting like a female? Of course not! Now they’ll instead call you a bigot for even daring suggest he’s still a male.

        Makes it even more obvious how the entire movement is driven by lies.

        Transgenderism: FEELINGS trumps GENETICS.
        Homosexuality: GENETICS trumps FEELINGS.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Which “die hard homosexual activists” have become ex-gay?

        • Jalapeno

          Does that mean you hate the testimony from the religious people who realized that they were really, truly gay the whole time and suppressing it out of religion-driven self hatred?

          • Reason2012

            No, activists hate ex-gays – calling them all liars just proves it.
            From a Christian’s point of view it’s between each person and God, hence it’s hardly surprising professing Christians fall away and go back into sin again. Why hate them? We’re not claiming Christianity is genetic.

          • Jalapeno

            ..Since when is calling someone a liar saying you hate them?

          • Reason2012

            SomeONE? Case by case basis.
            But instead against all people who point out a message you hate? It’s no longer based on “lie” but instead on the hate of the person towards all of them and their claim that you hate instead.

        • Paige Turner

          You just cut and paste this same passage over and over and none of it is true.

          If I google “Ex gay” I end up with stories about exodus international closing down. They were the worlds largest “ex-gay” organisation and closed down a couple of years ago and apologised to everyone they had damaged along the way.

          There is also stories about JONAH which is quackery. The entire “ex-gay” movement is quackery.

          Writing your comments in bold and in caps show your impotent rage and latent homosexuality.

          • wandakate

            BOLD and CAPS actually means something of importance. A word that we want to clarify something for instance.
            I just absolutely LOVE my dog. It’s just an expression of some important word, or of someone wanting to get a point across. It’s not necessarily anger, or feelings of rage at all.

          • Paige Turner

            I feel very sorry for your dog.

            Using capitals is the written equivalent of shouting which, in terms of your last post means that you are shouting random words at me about your dog. Your are either in a rage, impotent or crazy.

            Use your inside voice like an adult and stop shouting. And take off your tin foil hat.

        • wandakate

          Of course it’s not genetics. They have already proven that as a fact. It’s a CHOICE to be that way, it’s a perverted lifestyle. It’s basically the “lust of the flesh”. GOD hates it, and He told us that in the bible.
          This article is about kids praying with the youth pastor in a school, I don’t think it’s about homosexuals…

      • wandakate

        EDUCATING them about GOD isn’t going to hurt them either. It will instead be the best thing we can do. GOD wants us to love the sinner and HATE the sin. Homosexual conduct is a sin. They are unions to GOD, they will NEVER be marriages, GOD says it’s a sin and He will NEVER condone any of it.
        Keep praying kids, more power to you.

        • Paige Turner

          Thats hilarious. Im not sure what us funnier – They fact that you believe that nonsense or that you are shouting random words out like a toothless crazy person.

          Speaking on behalf of God is a bit arrogant don’t you think? Who are you to speak on behalf of an omnipotent deity?

      • Christopher Cross

        Also the crap you pulled was quite intolerant nonsense as well!

    • wandakate

      We can thank satan for that one can’t we? I’m with you…reason 2012, our kids and grandkids are under siege by the god of this evil world.
      Revelation 11:15-19 tells me that JESUS is going to appear, he will take possession of this evil world away from satan, the graves will all open and the Ark of the Covenant will be seen again. PRAISE THE LORD! ALL OF US TO LOVE GOD SHOULD STAY UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT, AND PUT DOWN ALL OF WHAT IS WRONG (satan’s tricks and lies) that are ruining this generation of kids. SHAME ON THEM, they will rot in hell for their wrongs!

  • acontraryview

    While the kids are certainly free to gather among themselves to engage in prayer, allowing a pastor to come into the school crosses the line.

    • JustChris1976

      Why stop there? Keep all Christians out of the schools, both employees and students. You never know, one of them might be thinking some kind of religious thought, and immediately a theocracy would be established.

      Public schools must keep out all Christians, or we’re done for. We can’t afford to be too careful. Tax those slimy Christians, and tell them to shut up.

      • acontraryview

        That seems quite extreme, Chris.

        • JustNTyme

          So do you. Pastor can’t walk into a public school?

          • acontraryview

            it’s not a question of being allowed into the school. It’s a question of what he is doing while he is there.

          • Jalapeno

            He said that allowing a pastor to come into the school *to lead prayer* crosses the line.

          • Paige Turner

            Correct

      • Chip01

        Can we put em on a ship and send em out to sea?

        Maybe there, they can cause no harm?

        • ken

          Flagged.

          • Chip01

            I’m not super surprised, Ken.

            For you… Freedom really only applies to the things which matter to you, isn’t that the underlying message you /freedom of religion really wants to deliver?
            1st Amendment – only if you say what Ken wants to hear

  • Reason2012

    Google public school islam and read about growing cases of islam being taught in schools and atheists not doing a thing about it – just shows you that religion is not the issue: the truth of Christ is the issue. You can kill thousands of Americans in the name of islam and the left bends over backwards to help you build a church where you did it and allows islam to be taught in public schools – dare hand out a tract about Christ and you are met with the utmost hatred. If people wonder how we can know what God’s truth is, the left makes it clear with their hatred towards Christ while giving false religions a free pass.

    John 15:18-20 “If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
    Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.”

  • Ambulance Chaser

    Under Lee v. Weisman, schools cannot sponsor any clergy to deliver any type of prayer, even non-sectarian, to the students during any school sponsored activity or during school time.

    Santa Fe Indepdendent School District v. Doe extended this ruling further, saying that no prayers, even those conducted or sponsored by students, are allowed during school time or at school events, if those prayers make use of the school’s facilities or in any way appear to have the school’s seal of approval.

    Here, we have a pastor who took over an entire lunchroom to preach and encourage prayer. No school officials stopped him, no school officials told him he was being disruptive, and no school officials tried to move him to a quiet corner or a separate room. Clearly, between the fact that he had the ear of an entire lunchroom and the fact that no one stopped his praying, the pastor had the school’s stamp of approval and thus his actions were unconstitutional.

    • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

      He is free to exercise his religion especially since it is clear that a majority of the students wanted him to.

      • Ambulance Chaser

        No, he is not, and what “the majority of the students” want has nothing to do with it. I provided the case citation.

        https: // scholar. google. com /scholar_case? case=1404809152 50262562&hl =en&as_sdt= 6&as_vis= 1&oi= scholarr

        • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

          Oh, yes he is buddy. At this particular meeting they the students wanted to pray so let them. PS the Supreme Court can interpret anything they want any way they want, it doesn’t necessarily make them correct.

          • Randy Wanat

            But, their interpretation is legally binding, and yours isn’t. I assume you understand that.

  • Chip01

    The brainwashed children need to be reprogrammed

  • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

    About time students start standing up for their rights.

    • Randy Wanat

      They don’t have a right to break the law.

  • concerned

    To the FFRF…get your own club.!

  • kagl982

    If it was a homosexual minister giving a talk about “inclusiveness,” you can bet the FFRF would escort him into the school with a dozen roses. The religious left is extremely useful to groups like the FFRD. When you click on someone’s name, take note of the sites they visit. Many of the ones claiming to be “Christian” are regular visitors to Friendly Atheist and other such sites. What does that tell you? When you prefer hanging out with atheists to hanging out with Christians, odds are that you aren’t Christian at all.

    • Randy Wanat

      Oh, so TRUE Christians do the things you think TRUE Christians do, and anybody who does something else cannot possibly be a TRUE Christian.

      What is the No True Scotsman logical fallacy?

  • ScottDrysdale

    It was the atheist staff at Charlie Hebdo magazine in Paris that had been ridiculing several religions for their beliefs for a couple years until things spun out of control with their attack on one particular “religion”….. and it was not the peace loving, live and let live Christians that were doing the attacks…… just say’in!

  • Pat

    The FFRF are too COWARDLY to say anything against Islam and Sharia Law….COWARDS….

    • Cady555

      Name one instance where a muslim imam came onto s public school campus and led prayers during the school day.

      When it happens, and you object to another religion using public schools to get access to your child, the FFRF will be there.

  • Frank Dorka

    I am sure that it was only the Christian students that protested.

  • mai1dude39

    Atheists are bored and boring.

    • Randy Wanat

      Following the law may be boring, but it’s good citizenship. Why don’t you think Christians should be good citizens?

  • http://yeahright.wtf Lettuce

    Christianity and islam offend me.

  • Gabriel A. King

    It seems the prayers were entirely voluntary. As a Christian myself I oppose aggressive “influencing” or proselytizing.
    If this man was a Muslim or a Satanist in close proximity and influence of the kids I would be greatly concerned. There is a thin line between “voluntary”… and “INFLUENCE” and / or exposure.
    The primary focus of Public Schools should be to encourage the concepts of equal rights, and the value of personal Liberty. And to ensure that ALL viewpoints are equally and fairly represented without personal bias.

  • http://www.chrismillersblog.com/ Chris Miller

    I am a youth pastor … and I am saddened by this story. I am saddened
    that instead of using this as an opportunity to teach students about the
    need to respect others (and the beliefs or unbelief of others), it was
    used an opportunity to push Christianity through force.

    Do I pray with students? Of course. But I only pray with them when they ask me to
    and I make sure that we do it in such a way that shows respect for
    those who don’t want to pray.

    I dream of all students knowing
    Christ as Lord. I want everyone — literally everyone — to experience the
    power the of the resurrection that I have experienced. But I do not
    believe that this can be achieved by forcing everyone to pray or even by
    praying out loud in from of everybody. This can only be achieved when
    we live out the gospel at a deeper level, when we love our neighbors as
    ourselves.

    Alright. I am done rambling now.