Joel Osteen’s Senior Worship Leader ‘Released’ Amid Cheating Scandal

Osteen-Houghton
Photo Credit (Houghton): Sam Panasyuk

HOUSTON, Texas — The longtime senior worship leader for megachurch self-help author and motivational speaker Joel Osteen is raising concerns after he was recently photographed in Mexico with a woman not his wife just weeks after announcing his divorce.

On February 22, Houghton, a five-time Grammy Award Gospel singer known for his songs “Friend of God,” “Not Forgotten” and “Moving Forward,” announced publicly on social media that he and his wife had divorced.

“It is with a collective heavy heart that we announce that after over 20 years of marriage and a long separation, Meleasa and I are officially divorced,” he wrote.

Without providing details, Houghton explained that he had “sinned” in his marriage and was unable to fully restore the relationship.

“Several years ago I failed and sinned in my marriage. Though this is new to many, it is not new to us as we have been working through this for over 5 years,” he said. “Although we tried, the challenges in our relationship have proven too much to overcome.”

Houghton apologized for the hurt that his actions had caused.

“Although I am sincerely sorry, and forgiven, I soberly realize that I will live with the consequences of my failings for the rest of my life,” he stated. “As this has become a public matter I want to apologize to the many who have supported my ministry through the years. I’m sorry for the many who will be hurt to learn of my personal failure. I regret any pain or disappointment that this news may cause you.”

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The post has since been deleted, and some followers expressed concern that Houghton had continued serving as worship leader at Lakewood while living in sin, as well as singing in general with Israel and New Breed.

Houghton and the woman not his wife.
Houghton and the woman not his wife.

This past week, Houghton, 44, was spotted in Tulum, Mexico with a woman who is not his wife. Actress Adrienne Bailon, 32, donned a scantily-clad bikini as she and Houghton vacationed together on the beach. The two were photographed embracing and kissing in the water.

Bailon is the former girlfriend of Rob Kardashian, and had been engaged to Lenny Santiago until she ended the relationship in September. Houghton met Bailon three years ago while working on the film “I’m In Love With a Church Girl,” which he produced.

The development and photographic evidence quickly prompted concern, and some wondered if Bailon had anything to do with the divorce.

Houghton shown on staff at Lakewood in this screenshot from November 2015.
Houghton shown on staff at Lakewood in this screenshot from November 2015.

A defiant Houghton took to social media on Tuesday to acknowledge the relationship, but to clear Bailon of any wrongdoing.

“Adrienne is a woman of integrity and character,” he wrote. “Most of all she is a true friend, and she should not be blamed for my past indiscretions.”

“My marriage had been over for quite some time before going public with my divorce announcement,” he said.

Houghton suggested that others shouldn’t scrutinize his life but focus on bigger problems in the world.

“In the midst of all that’s going on in the world: suffering, terrorism, deciding a future for our country, and making the world safer; it is sad that I am even having to address this matter,” he stated, concluding with, “I appreciate your prayers, and I join you in praying for the issues of life that truly matter today all over the world.”

A cached image of Lakewood’s leadership page from late November 2015, one of the last archived images available, shows Houghton still being on staff at that time. (See above.) His photo and bio were removed at some point between December and this month.

Lakewood’s Andrea Davis, who is handling public relations, did not return Christian News Network’s calls for comment and clarification. However, Lakewood told a secular outlet that “Lakewood Church released Israel Houghton from his responsibilities as a worship leader [in February] and placed him on indefinite leave. Since that time, he has not been featured in any Lakewood Church related activities.”

The representative further stated that they were not at liberty to provide details about Houghton’s situation, but advised that Lakewood officials are willing to provide spiritual counsel if Houghton so desires. He had served as Osteen’s worship leader for 14 years and had also spoken at the podium on several occasions.

Much concern has been raised over the past decade that the messages at Lakewood are noticeably void of instruction to shun sin and walk in holiness. Osteen’s self-help books have included “Your Best Life Now,” “Become a Better You,” “You Can, You Will” and “It’s Your Time.”

Osteen’s latest book, “The Power of I Am,” teaches readers to manifest blessings in their life by making positive confessions about themselves, so that they might “lead a more productive and happier life.”

In 2014, Osteen’s wife Victoria raised concerns when she preached, “Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy. When you come to church, when you worship Him, you’re not doing it for God really. You’re doing it for yourself…”


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  • George

    I suppose this is some of the fruit of megastar churches, they are more like celebrities. I realize that any one of us can fall into these type sins, but nonetheless, you do tend to see this more in these type churches…

    • http://www.politijim.com PolitiJim

      Help me. What “megastar” church did King David attend?

      • Clae Brewer

        Amen PolitiJim, It’s easy to take pot shots on the one in failure.

        • bulldog11

          so should he not take pot shots and just commit the sins like this guy who cheated on his wife? or should he be righteous and not commit sins?tell me which one should be done!

      • Elldee

        But David repented.

        • http://www.politijim.com PolitiJim

          As did Israel H. (By the way – the word “repent” in the NT is ‘metanoia’ which means only to change one’s course of thinking. Meta “change” Noia “mind”. It does not mean to grovel or “be sorry.” You’ll note the adulteress never ‘repented’ before Jesus relieved her of condemnation. the thief on the cross never ‘repented’ for his sins and prayed the sinners prayer.

          We Christians need to get back to the radical message of Jesus (which inflamed the legalists) which is ALL He requires of us is to believe, confess and trust in Him as our Lord – giving up our right to determine our own way. NOT to keep judging what is right and wrong every second of every day. That is what Paul berated the Galatians for.

          • hytre64

            Bring fruit worthy of repentance…

            Personally, having a single male on a romantic vacation with a single female (IMHO) is not consistent with having repented of sexual immorality. Paul wrote, “Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. 1 Cor 7:1-2

            As Christians, and a leaders of local Christian churches, we are called to avoid even the “appearance of evil” (1 Thes 5:22)

          • http://www.politijim.com PolitiJim

            Funny how free you seem to think the worst of all people, contrary to what 1Cor13 advocates. I think your thought process clearly tells us all we need to know about your relationship with Jesus.

          • hytre64

            JIm – Read more clearly, please. Did I name *anyone* in my post?

            What I said was that an activity (ie. single, romantic vacation w/ person of opposite gender who is not your spouse, but whom you have been seen hugging and kissing) does not seem to be consistent with someone having repented of sexual immorality. Even John the Baptist told people to bring forth fruit consistent with having repented.

            BTW – Please re-read Paul’s admonition about it being good not to *touch* a woman (before marriage). That is a standard my children & I live by.

          • bulldog11

            and what does it say about you who dont rightly take pauls word as the truth!

          • Fee

            Thank you, that’s the shocking part for me! They are actually kissing, touching, hugging, half-naked, unequally yoked, and alone together on vacation…just unbelievable for Israel to even be the man of God named in this mess. There’s much truth in “even the elect will be deceived.” Nonetheless, Israel and his family are in my earnest prayers.

      • George

        that’s why I clearly stated any one of us can fall into this sin, but its more prevalent in these carnal type churches.

        • http://www.politijim.com PolitiJim

          I attend Lakewood. I have attended over 10 churches in my life (I’m 55). At the smallest baptist church that taught what was ‘right” and ‘wrong’ every Sunday, which I attended in my 30’s, I was propositioned by two gay men who were in the choir. In another small bible teaching church (about 80 families) in my late 30’s – the pastor was removed for a secret gay life style his wife and 3 children knew nothing about.

          Did you know Baptists have the HIGHEST rate of alcoholism of any denomination but preach against drinking the most? Because the law kills. Repentance comes by grace and blessing. (Rom 2:4Or
          do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and
          patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? )

          Lakewood worships Jesus. 30 mins is devoted to personal prayer needs. Joel Osteen scripturally directs new believers to stand before the congregation to acknowledge Jesus as their Lord and explains “Jesus will not acknowledge you before the Father” in every service. Nearly every devotional, teaching and lesson urges people to ask God to show them where they need to change to be more pleasing to him.

          If you think and promote that Lakewood is “carnal” you are guilty of false accusation.

          I have good news though. It’s covered by Jesus’ blood an He won’t condemn you for it, as you are trying to do to others.

          • George

            can you give me your source for Baptists having highest alcoholism and where you got that conclusion from? I don’t deny that some people in any legalistic denomination can get stuck, I came from a legalistic backround, so I have seen the problems associated with that.
            But ive also experienced churches that err on the other side, and when it comes to Lakewood and joel osteen, theres been much research and much evidence on the internet and books written by authors such as John macarthur and other very sound bible teachers who have exposed Joels lack of bible knowledge, and that he clearly comes under the health and wealth/prosperity crowd.
            Titles like your “your best life now” and the “The power of I am” (which, funny enough, the I am is Gods title), are indicative of his beliefs. Joel even said on an interview that Mormons are Christians. He even stated oprah is Christian. Just because someone mentions Jesus doesn’t mean he’s preaching the Jesus of the bible. Teaching like Joels, and other word of faith teachers appeals to the carnal crowd, for aren’t most of his teaching about getting what you can in this life? Doesn’t Jesus teach not to store up treasure here on earth?
            I believe my pointing out churches like Lakewood is backed by evidence and fact, and if your interested, I can give you many sources to check for yourself, and see if Joel and his teaching measures up to scripture.

      • https://jesusflunky.com JesusFlunky

        We can preach the whole “Moses was a murderer, David an adulterer, Noah an alcoholic,” and totally miss the point. Do you know what happened to the entire Nation of Israel because of David’s sin? His family was splintered……. His sexual immorality was passed to Solomon and it split the kingdom and brought in pagan worship along with passing children through the fire.

        • D Sims

          The true point is, there is none good, not one, including JesusFlunky. You and I have contributed our part to the demise of this planet with our sin and disobedience as well. Does not mean we should stay in our sin and continue to practice it after gaining the knowledge of the truth, but I think if is more than fair to say that anyone who claims they have no sin needs to return to a place of humility.

          • https://jesusflunky.com JesusFlunky

            You are correct, and we as christians are to redeem the times. Defeat the enemy with the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimoney and go and make disciples. Jesus said, “teaching them to do the things I taught. “

          • bulldog11

            so there none good not one? so should we go out willingly sin cause there no good one not one? maybe you need to read that scripture ad understand he was talking about a people who was sinning and not living righteously!

          • D Sims

            If you are living each moment in absolute righteousness then you are only the second person that has ever done that. Even Paul said he was the chief of all sinners. I am not going to get too excited though, you and I are along way from the Apostles.

          • hytre64

            The question is – are you repenting and turning away from your sins, pleading to have them covered by the Blood of Jesus -OR- are you continuing to walk in your sins.

            BTW – Paul, when he referred to himself as chief of sinners, he was viewing his past, when he was the *chief* of those who persecuted the Church and his violent adversary to those who followed “The Way”. Paul was amazed that Jesus would take the one who was doing the most damage to His Church and not only forgive him, but turn him into an Apostle and the chief missionary to the Gentiles.

          • D Sims

            I am trying to understand what you and the other individual are thinking I am saying? You are simply restating the elementary principals of repenting and receiving the forgiveness of sin. I would hope and will believe we all agree with that. I also would hope that we agree we are “being” saved. We will be in this process of being conformed to the image of Christ until we take our final breath. Of course “sinner” should not be our primary identity in Christ but please think about this for a moment.

            We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.

            Clearly in the book of James, and other places throughout the texts of scripture we are also humbly identified by our nature, a sinner saved by grace.

            When a person refuses to recognize this with a humble heart then we open ourselves up to pride and arrogance to the tenth degree. Yes, we train, teach, and make disciples but it is a process, a long journey and even as we take our last breath we will have to confess that if it was not for the blood of Christ and the testimony of His mercy and grace we are lost.

          • bulldog11

            the thing is you see us all as sinners,if we are living from god turning away from sin how are we sinner? if we are sinners then how are we different than those who blantly commit sins, i dont want to be counted with the adulters, thiefs or murders, i dont do these things cause i have conviction.but i rather be considered a saint not a sinner.those who do the will of god should be called the saints of god, do you not agree?

          • D Sims

            I agree completely that we who are branches connected to the “true” Vine, our identity are the children of God. Read what I wrote to hytre64 and this should explain more what I see in scripture. We agree on the basics but some are failing to see the whole picture.
            Once again, sinner is not the fundamental reality of our identity but it is still yet our nature and an identity that the Apostles would use. If you cannot see that in scripture and the letters of the Apostles then there is nothing else I can say on this type of forum except to go through a study on this in person.
            If you deny the struggle between the flesh and the spirit then there is nothing more I can say. There are many Christians that become very arrogant and prideful in their spiritual walk in Christ for this simple reason alone. They forgot that what they were and are. James even reminds us that if anyone says they have no sin then they are a liar and the truth is not in them. We sin because we are sinners by default, by nature.

            My friend, here is what I see in many Christians. They categorize sin. They can honestly say that they do not steal, or commit adultery on their spouse, or have murdered someone. They find no issue with lying, being a coward, a glutton, lust in the heart and mind, joining themselves with certain music, watching programs that are hostile toward the God they say they love and obey, and the list can go on to fill this whole website.
            Humility will take us back to reality, that if those that Christ makes right will barely be saved, what will come about to those that reject Christ, the ungodly? (1 Peter4)
            We have to rightly divide the word of Truth.

          • bulldog11

            i agree with you,but read what i said a few minutes ago and understand what judging is. see god is a judge for both the save and righteous and unto the unsaved and unrighteous, does god not give good thing to who he loves and that does his will, and bad unto those who do not his will,god is open to hear the righteous prayers.but his ears are closed to the sinner.he will judge us according to our obedence and our disobedence, a reward for our good and a reward for our evil. if god judges us for good and evil. as his children how can we know what good and evil is unless we have been taught good and evil.if we are taught what is good and evil and what sin is. should we not be judges of right and wrong. if we can not be judges of right or wrong, then how can we judge ourself of our own sins to turn from our sin.this is the mean judge yet least ye be judged, we must judge ourself according to the word when it comes to sin.and this saying complements the scripture work out your own salvation through fear and trembling, if we do not judge what sin is and we know our brethern who is fall to sin, shall we not call it sin which is sin, and pull our brethern from the sin, is it not christ like to pull our brethern from sin as our lord had pulled us from sin? should we walk with a mote or cast the mote from us being free from our sin. so we can be as christ who freed us, shall we not free our brethen from the ditch, who christ has free us from falling into the ditch!

          • hytre64

            What your post seemed to be implying (and please forgive me if I am wrong) was that because we are all sinners (ie. none of us can be perfectly righteous), don’t get too excited about sin.

            My point was that there is a difference between sinning and repenting vs. continuing on in sin. We need to struggle against our sin nature on a daily basis. Thank God that we are no longer slaves to this sin nature, but now have the choice to walk as slaves to Righteousness, and if we do sin, then we have an Advocate with the Father; namely Christ Jesus.

            “…Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? … knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin.” – Rom 6

          • D Sims

            I am in total agreement with you. The only thing I will ask you, is there still anything in your life today that you are knowingly still practicing that you know is against the will of the Father but yet are still in the fight against it? I call them our pet sins.

            (Example) I have to really work at the way I eat. I am not obese, but I also know that my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and for me to eat something that I know is destructive to the temple of my body then I am in willful sin. He who knows to do good but does not do it, that is where guilt comes to play. So yes, it is a struggle. I fight, I win, I loose, I repent, I am forgiven, I get back in the fight of faith. How many times are we allowed to repent over the same disobedience before God says enough?
            All I am saying is, when we do not rightly divide the truth and come at this from a position of humility and humble confession that yes, I still am learning, growing and fighting the fight of faith in my struggle against my own nature then I believe it will be hard for us as Christians to look to our neighbor and determine final judgement on their lives and throw out all these scriptures about not sinning, while I am still doing it everyday. That is called hypocrisy, and we all know what Jesus thinks about that one.
            Yes, we must pursue godliness and allow the Holy Spirit to sanctify us and conform us to the image of Christ but this does not happen overnight. So lets stop being too harsh in our judgments and humbly admit what we are in nature but live by who we are in Christ.

          • bulldog11

            first of all why have you asked if this person s week in a sin? is it cause you are willing to accuse this person? why ask if a person is in sin, but rather hope this person is turning from sin, is it better for a person to over come sin or to not over come sin.you fell at this stumbling block! do you see how your questions are showing your intent!

          • D Sims

            If you will notice I used myself as an example. I brought up the fact that each of us still are in struggles with sin because of the nature that is still in us. There are countless Christians that truly feel that because they may not practice the so-called “big” sins, that they have this attitude of self-righteousness. What cures this type of attitude is to allow the scriptures to humbly remind us that all have come short of the glory of God and even as a child of God we still do come short daily. If we all could really see the glory of God we all would fall on our faces and cry out woe is me, for I am an unclean man living among unclean people. The only boasting that we can do is in Christ alone, for our righteousness is not our own but it is because of Christ in us that we have been made righteous in ‘spirit” but the flesh profits nothing. One gives us eternal hope, the other continually reminds us that we desperately need God and we are only sinners saved by His mercy and grace.

          • bulldog11

            your completely right!

        • http://www.politijim.com PolitiJim

          Jesus came from that lineage, as well as Rahab the whore.

          You seem to not have heard the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Righteousness is no longer achieved by how “good” you are (which in contrast to the perfection and purity of God could NEVER be achieved any way – “no not one”) but by BELIEF, TRUST that JESUS stands in your place before the Father and IS our Righteousness.

          Paul said ALL THINGS ARE PERMISSIBLE, but many Christians yell at every sin of every person as if it is the end of the world. You are back in the Garden trying force feed the fruit from the tree of the “knowledge of what’s right and wrong” when God told us NOT TO EAT from the fruit of this tree.

          Yes, not all things are profitable. But being “bad” is no longer based on what one does but in WHO they believe in.

          Worse, your sin of condemnation, judgement and having ill will toward your brother are NO LESS than the sin of Israel.

          Brother – you need to learn grace, and quit trying to put people back under the law.

          Yes – being faithful should be praised. But “missing the mark” has nothing to do with his purity before God. If you do so, you are preaching what Paul called “the ministry of death.”

          • hytre64

            There are qualifications for leadership positions in any church, which (IMHO) includes leading the church in Praise and Worship of God:

            “…appoint elders in every city as I directed you, namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. For the overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. Titus 1:5-9

            An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 1 Tim 3:2-7

          • http://www.politijim.com PolitiJim

            A) He is not in leadership and hasn’t been for over 2 years. B) A the word “elder” here is not a worship leader, it’s someone who has authority over the church which Israel never had. C). you are a hypocrite if you suddenly think his sin is any greater than the pastors of thousands of churches who cheat on their taxes or sneak looks at pornography (which Jesus said is the same as committing it). YOU are still trying to live by the law it seems rather than the “law of the spirit”. 2 Corinthians 3, Paul contrasts the administrations of the old and new covenants:
            He [God] has made us competent as ministers of a new
            covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills,
            but the Spirit gives life. (verse 6)

          • hytre64

            (A) I am sorry, I thought that as of 2/23/16, when he announced his divorce that he was “the senior worship leader” at Lakewood Church.

            (B) I would include as “elder”, anyone who has any type of leadership position within the local church. This would include being in charge of the nursery, children’s church, ministry of helps, local outreach programs, discipleship classes, the praise & worship team, deacons, elders, and Pastors.

            (C) Sin is not on a sliding scale. God has but one standard, which is are you without sin (sins repented and covered by the blood of Jesus), or are you in sin. If you are a leader who is in violation of either Titus 1:5-9 or 1 Tim 3:2-7, then (IMHO) you should step down from your position until such a time as you have corrected the situation and those things that led up to it.

            Just to be clear – are you saying that we should ignore Paul’s admonitions about the qualifications for leadership (which he repeated twice) – in favor of a single verse taken out of context , or because you believe that many church “leaders” (iyho) are not living godly lives?

          • bulldog11

            and why are you part taking of the flesh by defending this man who sinned.i never once heard you speak out against it. you have laid nothing holy at the door step of this conversation! you have not upheld any thing that keeps one from committing sins!

          • https://jesusflunky.com JesusFlunky

            Missing the mark on life or death situations is very dangerous. ” liars, nor gossips, idolaters, or those who practice sexual immorality will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.” Sorry to burst your bubble. …being faithful does not earn praise, Jesus said, a servant does not expect to be praised for doing what he is told. “If you love me , you will obey my commandments .” It is through grace and the power of the cross we can do these things. Or if we “miss the mark,” grace empowers us to repent, and humble ourself to God’s chastisementm . The lord disciplines those whom he loves.

          • bulldog11

            perfection can not be achieved and purity? then why does the bible say the pure of heart? how can he call them pure of heart if purity can not be reached? why did jesus say be ye perfect if one can not be perfect? if he commanded us to be perfect and commanded us to love our neighbor can we love our neighbor that was commanded of us? if we have the power to love our neighbor which was commanded of us then dont we have the power to be perfect as it was commanded of us? as far as the law is concerned jesus said For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.tell me has the heaven and earth pass yet, no it hasnt so how is there no law. if he is the fulfillment of the law then how is the law done away with. if he is in us the law is still abiding but in us.

      • hytre64

        The Tabernacle Church of Jerusalem. ;-}

      • bulldog11

        so let me get this strait you are defending this mans sin by another mans sin?

  • Suchery Robin

    Well, not surprised. He might as well turn secular. Never was into his music….. But Osteen will keep him on more then likely at that church, sad.

  • gogo0

    this is my favorite site for christian gossip. let the judgment begin!

  • Paige Turner

    Grifter

  • Sharon Kutz

    Is he still leading worship? Hope not.

  • # wonderwhy80

    Hmmmmm he might be making a mistake with this one.

  • Mex Seiko

    Isn’t this whole article sinful gossip as well as most comments?

  • https://jesusflunky.com JesusFlunky

    Paul said, “What is the profit if you suffer for doing what is wrong?” It is situations like this that bring a spot on the church. He should accept responsibility of the consequences of his actions with humility, and endure the chastisement of the Lord without blameshifting and deflecting.

    • justavenger

      He is divorced, which means he is single. He can go on vacation and do what ever he likes.

      • hytre64

        “Do whatever he likes”???

        Sorry, but there are standards of conduct for single people as well – especially if they are in leadership positions within the local church.

        • justavenger

          I know it is hard for all you Sunday morning Christians but the Gospel of Jesus Christ centers on forgiveness. His atonement makes it possible for all individuals to overcome death and sin through their repentance.
          This man has been forgiven, he has change his heart, he has come clean he has worked to restore his marriage. He is divorced and single now. Going on vacation is not a sin.
          You hypocritical faux followers are treating him like the woman who they try to stone in John. You need to get on your knees and beg forgiveness for your offense if judging. Repent and come onto Christ.

          • hytre64

            @ja – Do you know what comes before forgiveness? Repentance. Do you know what comes after forgiveness? Working out your Salvation in fear and trembling.

            I am not talking about Mr. Houghton in any of my posts. What I am talking about are standards of conduct (A) for Christian Leaders (which can be found in Titus and 1 Tim) and (B) standards of conduct for single Christians.

            Maybe you didn’t mean your statement, “He can go on vacation and do what ever he likes.” literally. If so, I apologize. If, otoh, you meant that a newly divorced, single adult male in a leadership position in the church, a man can do literally anything, this I would take exception with.

            God has given us standards of conduct throughout His Word. We are not to be like the World, but have been called to be Righteous, to be a light on a hill, to show forth the Holiness of God, etc.

          • James L Georgeson

            What kind of example is this to children or new Christians? I would expect much much more . sorry

          • James L Georgeson

            You need to work on the word of the Lord. You sound of this world, not of the Lords. Shame on you

      • https://jesusflunky.com JesusFlunky

        Take that to Jesus. …yes by American christian standards, he did everything right.

        • hytre64

          God’s ways are higher than ours…

          • https://jesusflunky.com JesusFlunky

            Yes, and Jesus said “To whom much is given, much is expected. ” I’m not even talking about his fame, but his ministry to his wife of 20 years and three children, and his leading of worship. Much more is expected than a pat apology on Feb 23 of his divorce, and then his toddler like tantrum defending his mistress and himself not even a month later. “Even a fool may seem wise if he keeps his mouth shut. ” David repented, and then he said on the mountain, “I will not sacrifice to God that which cost me nothing.” The culture of American christianity , does not understand Fear Of the Lord, honor, or integrity. The generic form of Grace people try to use as a biblical defense of sin, do not quite understand the horrible death Jesus suffered for his creation.

          • bulldog11

            girl you are wise in god!

  • Lavie

    I am not here to judge but just to say that the Kingdom of heaven is at hand! It is there within reach of those who want to be made whole and enjoy the perfect peace that Christ affords. However, this means drinking from the cup that Jesus himself drank from, enduring the reality that life is not the rosy, flesh satisfying journey that some of us Christians think it is. it also means drawing from the depths of Glory to endure a bad marriage, redeem a lost child, secure healing for a battered soul. This life is not about ditching a God ordained family for the mere lust that the flesh presents. In the end can we truly stand before our Maker and hear Him say, Well Done?”

    • Paige Turner

      “Im not here to judge”

      And then you did.

      • hytre64

        Not a single thing in Lavie’s post was judging another person. What Lavie described is what a Christian life should be like.

        • Paige Turner

          Mental gymnastics.

        • SanDiegoSteve

          Pointing out sin is not judging someone personally. People always taking Matthew 7:1 out of context with the “don’t judge” ridiculousness.

          • James L Georgeson

            Thats the way they do it today. If you do something very bad and someone points it out, YOUR JUDGING. Really?

      • bulldog11

        and he judged righteuosly! there a judgement an unrighteous one and a righteous one.can this man not discern between right and wrong? and if he knows what is right and just should he not say what is right and just? if no one speaks who can hear. if no one hears no one can repent. if no one repents then who will be saved!

        • Paige Turner

          So judgement is now OK?
          Its so hard to keep up with all the rule changes.

          • bulldog11

            what is judgement, to understand what is sin? to say to someone they commit sin and to turn from it. how is this different than christ that said repent for the kingdom of god is at hand, what about john who told king herod he shouldnt take his brother wife? was he in the wrong to tell him not to sin? if you dont say to your brethen he is in sin and lead him to repentence how can he then be lead out of his sin? if a man does not know stealing is a sin how can he know unless he is told. how can a new born in christ know what is sinnful unless he is taught, but we do know that many who are in the church willingfully sin. and what should we say about those who willingfully sin? should we keep silence so sin may have more reign?tell me when the prophets who went forth preaching repentence telling isreal they commited sins, would you call this judging? clearly you all think preaching we should not sin or calling sin a sin is judging as a bad thing.but if you see the end result of not saying anything that they may burn. would god require their blood on your hands when you couldve preached and redeemed your brethern and did it not.

          • Paige Turner

            James 4:11-12
            Do not speak against one another, brethren He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor?

          • bulldog11

            did not peter judge the man and woman who sold their land and called them liars and they both fell dead?
            did not paul tell a certain people being crafty i caught you with guile, if you know what guile is,its deception or deceiving.
            so how can they call them liar or call the deceivers?
            you still have not understood!
            so if i see a man commit murder and a cop comes to me and says did you see this man commit murder, now if i testify he committed murder do i make him a muderer by my words if i testify he committed murder?
            should i justify myself and be a doer as you claim and hold my silence and let this man go free of the murder he committed and not call him of what he did?
            should the murder go free and i be a good christian and let the sinner be set free.
            or should i say yes he committed murder, now if i say he committed this sin am now i become a judge cause i have accused him of committing this sin i witnessed of him.
            is it righteous to be silent or righteous to open my mouth against the murderer?
            the church has been silent and evil does reign for if the good men are silent the evil shall open its mouth.

          • Paige Turner

            Dont Judge others unless you want the same done to you.

          • Amos Moses

            Again, taking scripture out of context only destroys your argument.

          • Paige Turner

            You do it all the time to suit the narrative. Fair is fair.

          • Amos Moses

            No, and you have no evidence to that effect.

          • SanDiegoSteve

            That is so un-scriptual it’s not funny.

          • Paige Turner

            Good. Its a way to live that doesn’t have to rely on scriptures and doesn’t hurt people unlike the aforementioned.

          • bulldog11

            this is not in the scripture

          • Paige Turner

            It most definitely is

          • bulldog11

            no it aint, find it! google excatly what he said its not in there!

          • Paige Turner

            I dont take dictation from you nor do I do your work for you.

            Walk a mile in someone else’s shoes before making vicious comments about them, condemning them and then hiding behind your religion as a defence. You are bullying a minority group. Shame on you.

          • bulldog11

            you brought up gay, no one else did, your hiding behind some gay agenda.
            sorry why would i go out and walk a mile in someone else sin and suffer the wrath of god.
            i much rather try living right and have his mercy than judgement!
            shame on you for trying to tempt others to commit sins!

          • Paige Turner

            Grammar is such an underrated skill.

          • bulldog11

            and knowing the bible is yours!

          • Paige Turner

            Judgement yet again from you. Very unchristian.

          • bulldog11

            and we have the right to judge, even paul said we will judge angels, but see scriptures like this you dont know cause your to busy worried about gay agenda.and it makes you ignorant!

          • Paige Turner

            There is no gay agenda just a human agenda.

            There is, however a Christian agenda which demonises a minority group.

          • bulldog11

            one god! he will judge everyone either wash yourself in the blood and make your garments white or be filthy and suffer for your filthiness!

          • Paige Turner

            More name calling and abuse from you. How awful you are.

            And you call yourself a Christian saying those things about a minority. Shame on you.

          • Paige Turner

            Religious faith gives you no such rights to judge anyone. Far from it in fact.

            Please explain this “gay agenda” that you refer to.

          • bulldog11

            gay agenda your for gays, ive talked about what jesus said you turned a deaf ear, even romans says An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

          • Paige Turner

            You have not answered the question and have just given me an unhinged rant.

            I will ask again.

            Please explain this “gay agenda” that you refer to.

          • bulldog11

            gay agenda you brought up gay cause its in your heart to defend them, cause you love sin!

          • Paige Turner

            Still no answer.

            Its clear that you don’t have any knowledge of the topic and can only make unhinged nonsensical comments without proper use of grammar or punctuation.

          • bulldog11

            gay agenda you stick up for the gay. thats gay agenda. maybe your gay!

          • bulldog11

            it gives me every right to have knowledge to understand what sin is.
            just as once a child learns not to go out in the road to play, once they learn of the danger they then dont go out in the road cause they make a judgement call of the danger.
            but you wont understand this cause you have no understanding,your eyes are blind cause you remain in sin, your ears will not hear cause you remain in sin. you devil who deceives the church so they might turn from the righteousness of god! you serve your father the devil!

          • Paige Turner

            I dont believe in fairy tales and imaginary friends, child.

          • bulldog11

            oh poor little person who is talking to me is slinging out such hateful words.shame on you!

          • Paige Turner

            Your words are cruel and hateful. Shame on you.

          • bulldog11

            who is the hypocrite? are you not calling people cruel is this showing compassion as you claim to have while judging me but telling me judging someone sin is wrong. you hypocrite!

          • Paige Turner

            Vilifying a minority is cruel and hateful. Your words damage people and you take no responsibility yet you hide behind your vicious judgement instead like a coward. Very shameful.

          • bulldog11

            im being no coward your the one with hateful words i cant help if what they do goes against the spirit of god cause they walk after fleshly desires. thats their sin. either they will walk in it or turn from it. its up to them to commit sin or not to commit it. but you believe they have no power over thier own body, if they dont then then they are a slave to their sin and desire.

          • Paige Turner

            How would you feel if I said these things about you and referred to your community as “they” and mock all the things that you are?

            That would hurt and you would be justifiably outraged.

            Having religion is protected however using that religion to vilify and bash a minority no matter what your biases are is reprehensible.

            You can only refer to others as “sinners” if you are free of sin yourself.

            Are you free of sin?

          • bulldog11

            minority or not if they sin against god, they will be judged by their sin, now do you really want those committing sins to suffer eternity in hell for their sins? or anyone who commits sins. you spend time preaching to me who believes in god but wont raise a finger to preach to those committing sins against god, your a hypocrite!

          • Paige Turner

            You didn’t answer the question. How would you feel if I said those things about you? How dare you demean other human beings to push your hateful agenda.

            They commit no sin. Your judgement is sinful and shameful.

          • Paige Turner

            Yeah, thats all great but here is the rub. Religious beliefs don’t trump the law. We don’t live in a theocracy and not everyone is a Christian who believes in God and the Bible. You don’t get to impose your world view on others. Freedom of and from Religion. Its in the constitution.

            You also need to own the damage that you do to your fellow humans when you pass judgement upon them and condemn them. There are serious consequences to your actions which are not loving when they don’t share your views. They are instead, hateful and bigoted. When you tell people that what they are is wrong and sinful it leaves a scar. You are not helping them when you do this rather you are making yourself feel better.

          • bulldog11

            and leaving them to be judged of god who has power to do as he sees fit according to their sin is better, should we pull the person from the ditch they are falling into or not? what bigoted is hating a group of people, please learn what that word means before you throw it around, tell me if a man has a child and the child goes out into the road and may get hit by the car, is it bigotory for that father telling that son if he goes out into the road he can get hit by a car, i tell the child with no warning has a far greater chance of suffering the effects of playing in that road than an obedient child,so do we keep our mouths shut and let people walk in the way thats destructive to their soul or save it? if a man saves a soul from pointing out ones sin and they turn away from it, isnt the reward far greater?

          • Paige Turner

            Your pious judgement is appalling. Gay people do not choose to be gay. Why would they choose this with people like you condemning them all the time?

            Your opinion of gay people going to hell and being judged by god is your opinion and cannot be proved.

            Comparing this to a child being run over by a car is a nonsense.

          • bulldog11

            its an act of the flesh not of the spirit, god is spirit, what they do is fornication. and according to god fornication is a sin.

          • Paige Turner

            Sex can be many things including an act of love or an act of hate. Reducing loving couples to “fornicators” shows the depth of your hatred.

            How arrogant of you to think that you speak on behalf of God. Who appointed you as his spokesperson?

          • bulldog11

            people have the choice to live how they want to in life, everyone one has a choice. you dont magically just happen to have sex with anyone you have to peruse it and not trun away from it to do it. that is a choice.

          • Paige Turner

            Just because you don’t like gay people does not mean that they have to live a chaste and lonely life alone which is what you want to condemn them too. Humans deserve to be happy with the partner of their choice no matter what that gender is.

            Gay people do not choose to be gay. Sex is a healthy and necessary part of being a fully functioning human being.

            Condemning a minority group to misery, loneliness and celibacy to suit your narrative is cruel and vicious.

          • bulldog11

            so when a person gets aids thats healthy? what about herpes is that healthy too?
            you mean to tell me a gay person has no power if they have sex or not, they have no power to say no over their temptations?
            having sex is a choice, just like a child molestor has a choice to molest a child or not molest a child, a rapist has a choice to rape or not to rape, its if they give into temptations. a strait person has a choice to have sex with the oppisate sex, so does a gay person. you do know how sex happens right? it just dont happen! you have to participate in it. so gays have the choice to have sex with the same sex or not.

          • Paige Turner

            People don’t “get” AIDS anymore. HIV is the virus that leads to AIDS and is now a treatable condition.

            You need to update from the 1980’s. Not every gay person is at risk and heterosexual people also get infected with HIV.

            Conflating sex with child molestation is ridiculous. Children do not consent to molestation. Adults consent to sex.

          • bulldog11

            so getting hiv is healthy?

            i used the child molester thing as a reference to people having control over their actions!
            why is it you cant comprehend things?

          • Paige Turner

            The fact that you conflate child abuse with homosexuals is staggeringly ignorant. 2 consenting adults and child abuse are nothing to do with each other. Shame on you for using such a spurious argument.

            HIV is a virus that affects all humans not just gay ones. It is now a treatable condition and does not lead to AIDS is most cases. Recent medical advances are remarkable and you should educate yourself on the topic before making ignorant comments about a subject you clearly know nothing about.

            Using HIV as an argument is truly an act of ignorant cruelty.

          • bulldog11

            like i said i was using it as the abuser choosing to do what he want, you said gays have no choice if thats so child abusers have no chose or do they have a choice to commit such acts,why is it hard for you to comprehend?

          • Paige Turner

            Gay people are born gay. This is fact. They also cannot change their sexuality. People’s sexuality is precisely none of your business.

            Your solution is for gay people to lead chaste/celibate lives denying them love and intimacy because you don’t like what they do. What a cruel and obscene thing to even contemplate. Perhaps you should think about the consequences of this. Gay people have high rates of depression and suicide as a result of these disgraceful ideas.

            Child abusers victimise an innocent minor and commit a crime. There is no parallel.

          • bulldog11

            prove they were born that way!

          • Paige Turner

            Prove that they are not.

          • bulldog11

            well they wasnt born having gay sex did they no they had to have gay sex first.

          • Paige Turner

            Were you born having straight sex?

          • bulldog11

            my point exactly! none of us are born a sexual creature.

          • Paige Turner

            That doesn’t answer the question or make any sense however nothing you have said so far does so you are at least consistent.

          • bulldog11

            i think we are almost done here! im tired of talking to some one who does not listen!

          • Paige Turner

            I am tired of dealing with someone who cannot use grammar and punctuation properly, has imaginary friends and behaves like a petulant child.

          • bulldog11

            like i said i called you an atheist and i do not know you. but you proved you are just now! how can i have known who you are unless i had the spirit of understanding to know who you were!

          • Paige Turner

            Use the spirit to buy a “caps” key for your computer.

          • bulldog11

            ,you devil!

          • Paige Turner

            Pick up some grammar and punctuation while you are there.

          • Paige Turner

            How can you start a sentence with a comma? Were you dropped on your head?

          • bulldog11

            no it wouldnt let me repeat you devil! but i was getting my point across.

          • Paige Turner

            So you just cut and paste without an original thought and add a comma just so you don’t have to make any effort? Thats a bit lazy.

          • bulldog11

            nope just wanted to call you the devil!

          • Paige Turner

            Thats Mr. Devil to you

          • bulldog11

            stop talking to me!

          • Paige Turner

            The voices are in your head.

          • bulldog11

            you wolf in sheep clothing using scripture to devour the saints with your hate for the church! you are an atheist! i knew who you were! you have spoke your an athiest through your words they have reviled you! you are a devil!

          • Paige Turner

            Thats Mr. Devil to you.

            Beelzebub the Prince of darkness.

          • bulldog11

            youre far from anything respectful. you devil!

          • Paige Turner

            I said its Mr. Devil to you.

          • bulldog11

            devil!

          • Paige Turner

            The buses don’t go where you live do they?

          • bulldog11

            no cause i dont live in the ghetto. but you just made it clear the buses go in your ghetto town!

          • Paige Turner

            So busses only go to the ghetto? Who is in the ghetto? People that you don’t approve of no doubt. Black people? Hispanics? People who can spell and use grammar and punctuation perhaps too?

          • bulldog11

            what are you making a racist judgement call about who lives in the ghetto?

          • Paige Turner

            You’re the one who wont go there. Whats the reason?

          • bulldog11

            bye racist!

          • Paige Turner

            Bye knuckle head

          • Paige Turner

            Now you’re a detective are you? How clever of you. I’ve never claimed to be anything. You on the other hand are claiming to be a Christian however you have resorted to name calling and abuse. Love thy neighbour and all that.

          • bulldog11

            jesus called herod a fox, you called me a bigot, i will call you a devil! after all thats whats in your heart!

          • Paige Turner

            Do you think that its very Christian that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child’s eyeball?

          • bulldog11

            it may be a worm to you cause your life isn’t good! that’s an opinion and view point how you see the world!

          • Paige Turner

            You didn’t answer the question.

            What kind of God would create a worm that can only exist in a child’s eyeball?

          • bulldog11

            what are you talking about a worm?

          • Paige Turner

            The one that your evil creator made that only lives in a child’s eye. Your concentration doesn’t last very long does it?

          • bulldog11

            your views are warped!

          • Paige Turner

            I thought you said goodbye?

          • bulldog11

            what are you talking about a worm in a childs eye, are you on drugs!

          • Paige Turner

            Its a very simple question and goes to the heart of your belief which is why you cannot answer it and resort to ad hominem instead.

          • bulldog11

            the thing is you went left field talking about worms in childrens eyes, that was never in the converstaion! and i dont know where you remotely got this reverence or how it pertains to scripture or even believe in god! your question is absurd!

          • Paige Turner

            You are avoiding the question which is completely relevant as this is a Christian site and we were talking about God.

            Are you saying that God and the scriptures are absurd?

            You should be able to answer the very simple question if you are the biblical Christian that you claim to be.

          • bulldog11

            sorry but what do you mean by a worm in a childs eye, i dont know where you get this from.

          • Paige Turner

            Playing dumb comes very easy to you.

          • Paige Turner

            The question is completely relevant. If God created everything and is omnipotent and you are his self appointed agent then why did he create a worm that can only live in a child’s eye?

            You speak on behalf of God constantly.

            Its a very simple question which you are refusing to answer.

          • bulldog11

            what worm? where do you get a worm in a childs eye?

          • Paige Turner

            Playing dumb comes very easily to you.
            Its a relevant question that you simply cannot answer.

          • bulldog11

            no you have to be pacific in what your talking about as a worm in an eye, give me a link to what your referring to.

          • Paige Turner

            Pacific?
            I need to be pacific. I need to be an ocean.
            Right. Now I know exactly what Im dealing with

          • bulldog11

            and im dealing with someone who wont let me know what they are talking about. good bye would be the better thing on both parts.

          • Paige Turner

            I have asked a simple question that you’re playing dumb too. The reason for this is that you don’t have a cogent response. You then asked me to be an Ocean.

          • bulldog11

            why is a worm in a childs eye relative to anything!

          • Paige Turner

            Answering a question with another question is another game. Please continue….

          • bulldog11

            i dont know why you rather talk about a miss spelled word than make your intentions better received.i can’t answer something you you dont clarify the matter. i never heard the term a worm in a childs eye, and you refuse to give me reference about what your talking about.but any ways this is a lost cause.

          • Paige Turner

            You’re just playing games and don’t like being called out on your ignorance of language and theology. Its straight forward and you cant/wont/refuse to answer simple questions.

          • bulldog11

            you did not clarify anything i asked about a worm in a childs eye, what child? are you the little child with the worm in the eye? why dont you show me prove this is an epidemic?

          • Paige Turner

            Please feel free to avoid the question by asking more questions and not using punctuation properly. The question stands and you have no answer. Your God must be impotent.

          • bulldog11

            see i asked you many times to tell me about a worm in a childs eye, you sent no ink or told me anything about this worm in a childs eye, im sorry but this is not a common thing where i come from, maybe you and your people have worms in childrens eye where you come from but we dont. now if you want to send a link showing what your talking about ill look it up. untill then your refusing any prove to your question theres a worm in a childs eye.

          • Paige Turner

            Its very confusing isn’t it? Such a complex and difficult question to answer.
            Maybe God has the answer?

          • bulldog11

            are you going to send me a link that there is such thing?

          • Paige Turner

            Im going to let you work this very complex question out for yourself big boy. Surprise me and dont come back with another question.

          • bulldog11

            no thanks you didnt provide evidence so we are done here!

          • Paige Turner

            Sounds like you cant answer the very simple question about God creating a worm that can only live in a child’s eye and why he would do that even though you are his self appointed agent.

            Its been fun watching you stumble about trying to avoid this question.

            Enjoy! 🙂

          • bulldog11

            are you gay?

          • Paige Turner

            Are you a Christian?

          • bulldog11

            your taking up for gay people, i assume you must be into it!

          • Paige Turner

            Compassionate human. You should try that sometime.

          • bulldog11

            your not compassionate your far from it, your words show it!

          • Paige Turner

            Im not the one hating gay people and calling them names. That is your position. You also claim to speak on behalf of God. When did God appoint you as his agent?

          • bulldog11

            and all this time you tried to decive me with scriptures and have not even know the scriptures talking about that lifestyle being sinful, by the way a sinner does not enter into the kingdom of heaven only those who made their garments white by the blood of the lamb.

          • Paige Turner

            Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

            Condemning a minority and using inflammatory language and then hiding behind the bible is hypocrisy of the highest order. The arrogance that you have to think that you speak on behalf of an omnipotent deity is staggering.

          • bulldog11

            where is my stones? why do you preach let him cast the first stone but defend men who blantantly sin against god, your a hypocrite, there is not truth in you, you devil!

          • Paige Turner

            So you are without sin?

          • bulldog11

            are you asking as someone with out sin? or someone with sin ready to accuse another so you may justify sin? no matter what your for sin and not against it, you have proven this with your words you devil!

          • Paige Turner

            Its a very straight forward question. Let me ask it again,

            Are you without sin?

          • Paige Turner

            You have conflated Gay people with murderers, children being run over, liars, deceivers, sinners. In fact, just about anything or anyone just to make your point.

            That sounds like judgement to me.

          • bulldog11

            well it was gay people in sodom that went about killing and raping! and im sorry you cant understand a parable.

          • Paige Turner

            Sodom was a sin of inhospitality.

            You need to brush up on your theology as well as your grammar.

          • bulldog11

            sin of inhospitality? where did you come up with this lie?

          • Paige Turner

            Theology not blind faith.

            It is a well known fact that the sin of Sodom was of inhospitality not the twisted view that you have.

          • bulldog11

            it never says that he judged them cause of their sins.

          • Paige Turner

            Try and stay on topic.

            The sin of sodom is of inhospitality.

          • bulldog11

            im on topic undoubtedly you dont read the bible!

          • Paige Turner

            Given that you are incapable of starting a sentence with a capital letter or know how to use punctuation the word “hypocrite” would seem appropriate.

          • bulldog11

            oh wow say something on my grammar instead of the truth according to the scripture, your dodging the truth of god, cause your a snake!

          • Paige Turner

            Its like trying to talk to a dolphin. You are way off topic and probably off your meds too.

          • bulldog11

            you devil!

          • Paige Turner

            Dolphin.

            Love,

            Mr. Devil.

          • Paige Turner

            Capital “Y” for “You”. No explanation point needed.

            C-

            You can do better.

          • bulldog11

            i dont want to do better, your not worth the capitol letter, become someone of importance and ill show you the respect of a capitol letter. but you’ll never gain my respect cause you have no honor!

          • Paige Turner

            *capital letter.

            C-

          • Paige Turner

            Grammar! Thats the real abomination here.

          • bulldog11

            well does it say if a man lie with a man as he does with a woman both have commited abomination.

            but you would know this if you read the bible instead of arguing.
            you devil!

          • Paige Turner

            Leviticus 20:13 is the passage you refer to.

            Leviticus also has other charming passages. To your point.

            Shall we also kill those who work on the sabbath?
            Those who touch the skin of a dead pig? (football)
            Kill those who wear clothes of a different cloth?
            Those who eat Pork or shellfish should also be killed

            These are also in Leviticus.

          • bulldog11

            see your argument is not for righteousness but to blame and excuse sinful nature in people.
            you can quote it all day long but i see past your words.
            i know how you devils twist the word to catch gods people in a trap.
            this is nothing new. you devil!

          • Paige Turner

            You did not answer the question and instead resorted to ad hominem.

            It appears that you are picking and choosing the bits of Leviticus that you want to apply to gay people and are leaving the rest.

            Do you not eat bacon? Lobster?
            Have you not played football?
            Worked on the sabbath?

            These all appear clearly in Leviticus and are worthy of death.

          • Paige Turner

            The bible says a lot of things. Do you obey all of them?

          • bulldog11

            by the way where in the bible does it say god will judge man kind by the constitution?

          • Paige Turner

            We don’t live in a theocracy. You can believe in the Bible if you want however it is not the constitution or the law. Its why there is freedom of and freedom from religion.

            There are over 4000 words in the constitution and not one of them is “God”.

          • James L Georgeson

            Ok, C;mon people. Advise is not judging and reading the Bible and talking about the Lords wishes arent judging either. Look, if your guilty and someone points that out to you, dont be like a child and cry or say their judging you. Put on your big boy pants and do the right thing!

          • bulldog11

            its only hard to keep up with the rules if you dont read them!

          • hytre64

            Since the last book of the Bible was written over 1900 years ago, I ask, “What rule changes?”

            Unfortunately, Paige, whom I have had discussions with on other articles, seems to want to play the Devil’s Advocate. I wouldn’t spend too much time throwing down pearls for her.

          • bulldog11

            i suppose you are correct! however i do read the bible and try to understand people forget just cause jesus walked in love dont mean he wont come in judgement.and its this judgement we must keep others from!

          • Paige Turner

            So you are changing the rules. That makes total sense. If you don’t like something then just change your position.

          • Amos Moses

            1 Corinthians 5 & 6

          • Paige Turner

            Just change the rules. Its that easy.

          • Amos Moses

            Don’t have to, and can’t,,,,, scripture forbids it.

          • bulldog11

            sorry i do read and under stand what jesus was saying.

          • Paige Turner

            Yet you contradict yourself with every post.

            You say there are now 2 types of judgement (according you) and you don’t judge but you are using righteous judgement which isn’t judgement and OK to judge because its righteous.

          • bulldog11

            righteuos judgement is judging righteously, what that means is to understand between right and wrong. and when you judge you dont judge in a wrong way.

          • Paige Turner

            So you are the judge, jury and the executioner now?

            No dice. Your arguments are post hoc ergo propter hoc.

          • bulldog11

            what happens if you put your finger in a light socket, do you get shocked? and if a baby was playing around it and you seen that baby about to stick his finger in it and it on, would you not judge in your self that it can hurt that baby, would you be silent and say to that baby if you do that it can kill you. tell me wouldnt this be a judgement call? to keep that baby from being hurt.
            if that baby listens then that baby dont die.
            would that make the one who warned the child an executioner? or would the disobenience of wisdom be what brings the demise of the baby?
            warning someone is not being a jury or an executioner. its simply warning someone.
            what is it wrong for a state to put up warning signs on curves if you take them to fast than the speed its required to take you can go off the road, they put these signs up to warn the driver, does this law make it bad or good for the drivers?
            does a road sign judge a man or does it warn a man?
            is a stop sign there for our benifit to know if we stop that we might not get plowed by on coming traffic and die, is this warning judging us or protecting us, either we follow the rules for our benifit or we break them and suffer for breaking them.
            giving warning or having the knowledge of what good and bad is and teaching other what good or bad is is not corrupt,
            how can we warn others if we can not judge an out come of what might aspire. if we see dangers ahead should we not attempt to save others?

          • Paige Turner

            Judgement is not about babies putting their fingers in light sockets and road signs don’t judge however people do.

            Who appointed you as God’s voice? Its very arrogant to think that you speak on his behalf.

          • bulldog11

            you have no understanding do you?
            im talking about just as someone warns a child theres no difference in someone warning people of their sins,
            but you people would call that judging!

          • Paige Turner

            You have not answered the question. Who appointed you as God’s spokesperson?

            A child is not an adult. Adults make their own decisions. Your “warnings” to adults are judgements and projections. Their behaviour is none of your business. Leave them alone and stop abusing them.

          • bulldog11

            oh so if a guy wanted to commit murder and told me i shouldnt abuse him by trying to lead him into the path of not committing murder, or lead the child molester into not committing murder just leave them alone and dont abuse them by saying its wrong! good argument there!

          • Paige Turner

            Still no answer. I will ask again.

            Who appointed you as God’s spokesperson?

            You are now conflating gay people with murderers. Is there no depth to your hatred?

          • bulldog11

            im sorry you understand nothing! i answered you as gods spokes person anyone who is a christian its their duty to warn others! again you read but don’t comprehend.

          • Paige Turner

            So you are a self appointed spokesperson for your omnipotent God.

            You are not warning people, you are condemning and judging them for things that are innate. It is no different to race, gender or eye colour. Do not discriminate. Suffer the consequences if you do.

          • bulldog11

            how am i condemn the bible says one who does not believe is condemned already. if they will not believe the word and live by it they condemn them self not me.they have the choice to live to god or not to god. i put no one in her so how do i condemn their sin is upon them

          • Paige Turner

            Self righteous nonsense. Your grammar also make your post unreadable.

            You are hiding your bigotry and hatred behind a book.

            “I didn’t say it, the Bible did.” No, you said it. It may well be written down but you said it and you own it. You are not some muppet that cannot think for itself. Own your bigotry.

          • bulldog11

            your the bigot hating against god almighty who is the word of god who calls sin a sin. you hide behind your own delusions!

          • Paige Turner

            *You’re

            Own your hatred and bigotry and stop hiding behind the book. Pick up your skirt Dracula, you are peddling nonsense.

          • bulldog11

            sin is sin no other way to put it! call me a bigot you democrat devil! who justifies sin!

          • Paige Turner

            Ok sure.

            You’re a bigot.

            Done

          • bulldog11

            your a devil! done! learn what a bigot is before you throw that democratic word around!

          • Paige Turner

            Your last post told me to call you a bigot. I called you a bigot.

            I dont see the problem here. You are getting what you asked for. Make up your mind.

          • bulldog11

            you devil! atheist!

          • Paige Turner

            I only did as you told me. I was acting under your instructions much like you do when it comes to vilifying minorities.

          • bulldog11

            you have shown whom you are!

          • Paige Turner

            *who

          • Paige Turner

            Only one of those things is true. Take a guess at which one?

          • bulldog11

            both, either way im wise enough to know you are one of them! without you telling me!

          • Paige Turner

            “All of the above” wasn’t an option.

            I did as you asked and now you are walking it back and blaming me. Perhaps you could stay on topic and make up your mind otherwise dealing with you it like unscrambling an egg

          • bulldog11

            talking to you is pointless, and you’ve bored me. i think this will be the last time i respond to you!

          • Paige Turner

            Well at least you got “you’ve” correct this time. The Caps key is still broken.

            Time for a new computer. Maybe a Mac? Apple is run by a gay Man.

          • Paige Turner

            I know that its been a challenge to keep up but you gave it a shot. One you work out how to use the caps key you can come back to me.

          • bulldog11

            dont flatter yourself! no one really cares to talk to you, bye leave me alone!

          • Paige Turner

            Caps lock. Its on the left. Please use it. Its calling out for you.

          • bulldog11

            well go educate yourself in the word. you devil atheist!

          • Paige Turner

            The irony!

            You are telling me to educate myself and yet you are incapable of using a capital letter for the start of a new sentence and use apostrophes inappropriately.

            Please. No more fairy tales and imaginary friends. Time for you to grow up.

          • bulldog11

            capitol letters dont make me uneducated, but now your preaching capitol letters as if your all wise, go read the bible so you dont look bad trying to talk about things your not wise in! if your going to preach it walk it!

          • Paige Turner

            At least the bible doesn’t have grammar and spelling errors. History? not so much

          • Paige Turner

            The inability to spell simple words like “capital” especially when it appears several times in the posts above definitely shows that you lack a basic education.

            Spell check is your friend.

          • bulldog11

            ok what ever, bye

          • Paige Turner

            Learning is hard.

          • bulldog11

            bye!

          • Paige Turner

            Always good for you to give up under these conditions.

            Bye!

          • bulldog11

            god said he will require their blood on our hands, that means every christ is called to share the gospel. but if you read youd know this!

          • Paige Turner

            You are the one with blood on your hands. Your vile and cruel words are why so many Gay people suffer from depression and commit suicide. Imagine being told these cruel and unnecessary judgements for a lifetime. Walk a mile in their shoes and show some compassion instead of pious judgement.

          • bulldog11

            well you tell me to walk a mile in their shoes, and oppose the church tells them to walk a mile in a sinless life not committing those sins.doesnt that make you vile and a hypocrte.why are you so bent on wanting to offend gays, you must be gay i assume it from the way you put up for them.

          • Paige Turner

            I dont think that Jesus said anything that you are proposing. His was a message of love, tolerance and peace. He hung out with prostitutes and lepers and 12 guys.

            Your hateful words are reprehensible and I could easily use the same against you for your beliefs.

            People deserve to be treated equally and with respect. These are the same things that you demand of your faith so its only fair that you extend the same courtesy to those who you hate.

          • bulldog11

            he didnt hang out with prostitutes where did you get this at?

          • Paige Turner

            He did indeed. He did not judge. You, however are doing nothing but judging. How pious of you.

          • bulldog11

            he never hung out with lepers this is a lie!

          • Paige Turner

            So everything else I said was true. Thanks.

          • James L Georgeson

            Thank you bulldog. God bless

          • bulldog11

            your welcome! god bless you too!

          • Amos Moses

            It is not only ok, it is a duty.

          • Paige Turner

            No, its appalling.

          • Amos Moses

            Only to a non-believer,,,,, like yourself.

  • Christina Mccammon

    Wow. I find it amazing that we “humans” find it OKAY to be his judge and jury. We all fall short of the glory of God. Our first mistake is to lift a man up on a throne instead of God. All men fall short, we are human. Some shortness is more public than others. These might be “mega-people” but they are human. What each person does is between themselves and God. Does he have a responsibility to walk a higher ground? Yes, so do each one of us, if we are called a Christian. I’m not perfect. Look at all the great men and women of the Bible. They all fell short yet were great leaders. Please let’s pray for him and his family instead of judging him against our perfectness.

    • bulldog11

      should we judge what he done was sinful? or shall we judge what he did was not sinful. if we cant judge between right and wrong how shall we know and have wisdom what is right and wrong. if a man is blinded by sin how can he pull the man out of sin who is blind, but if a man see’s and walks not in sin then can he see ones sin and pull him out of sin. least that blind man falls into the ditch.this is what it meant to judge not, cause those who judge had a speck in their eye, they were to blind to pull it out of their brothers eye, jesus go first pull out the blank out out of your own eye.what he meant was depart from your sin. take care of what sins you commit turn from them first. then can you help others. if we dont say what sin is tell me how can others repent from it if they dont know they are in sin.we are not called as children to let people fall into ditch’s! and yet the church has become the shush people and not speak out so people depart from their sins.

  • Mike Hogan Sr

    All I’ll say is if the Lake Church releases him because of his failed marriage , it was time for him to move on and that church being concerned about losing money instead of accepting and forgiving Mr Olsteen then shame on them the Christ I serve is a forgiving man if he weren’t we’d all be going to hell Amen.

  • deanmc

    He gave into temptation, his eyes were filled with lust, and usually where the eyes and mind go…the feet are sure to follow. Though none of us are holy or good, there are rules about those in a leadership position within the church.

  • justavenger

    Why is this news?
    He is single.
    This is BS leave the man alone. He worked on his marriage and it didn’t pan out.
    People get divorced everyday and move forward from there.

  • Emmanuel

    The point is: a leader in any church is held to a higher standard. This man is held to a higher standard so he needed to be released. I can’t believe Joel actually had the set to do this.

  • Mike Anderson

    Too many Christians are quick to judge. Have faith and let God be the judge. God disciplines those that he loves. We now live under the grace of Jesus, yet Christians love to follow after the old law. We need to strive after righteousness and encourage others. Jesus never condemned the woman caught in adultery, but said go and sin no more. The church has become those men with stones waiting to stone her to death. And Jesus is writing our sins in the sand when we are no better than that woman.

    • bulldog11

      so by grace this man can willingly sin against his wife, thanks for teaching me this, now you have became the least in the kingdom of heaven cause you taught me it was ok for this man to sin so if its ok for him to sin, its ok for everyone else?

      • Mike Anderson

        Do you understand what grace really means? It is never ok to sin and you know that. Maybe you didn’t understand what the words striving after righteousness or becoming Christ like means? If you want to judge and throw stones, that’s between you and God. But then your no better than the man who cheated on his wife.

    • Amos Moses

      Read Corinthians 5 & 6….We are all to judge those who claim to be inside the church.

      • Mike Anderson

        What about the verse that says take the plank out of your own eye before you point out the speck in your brothers eye? There is a fine line between judging and correcting. How many pastors and leaders of the church are addicted to porn? Jesus corrects is out of love. I have seen so many people leave the faith because the judging turns toward anger and hate of the individual. Paul is clear on how to handle this and he was removed from his position. He knows that he messed up. Now it’s on him wether he wants to repent or stay in sin.

        • Amos Moses

          What about it? Matthew 7 is all about how we are to judge righteous judgement……..

          • Mike Anderson

            Did you read Matthew 7? In the first verse it says do not judge. Or you will be judged In the same way. Unless you are perfect, how can you judge someone else?

          • Amos Moses

            Did you read past the first sentence………..it tells you HOW.

          • Mike Anderson

            So you ignore the first sentence. If you go around judging everyone, then how can you focus in worshipping God? It sounds as if you are obsessed with proving that you can judge this man. It also sounds like you want to prove that you are right. That sounds like pride to me and that’s where Matthew chapter 7 applies to everyone who wants to judge without look at their own hearts. Only God knows this mans heart and where he’s at. You can pick and choose which scriptures you want to discuss. I also can point out the prophet that talked to King David to point out his sin. How did the prophet point it out? He used a story that was about David and then King David realized his sin. That is how we are suppose to address it.

          • Amos Moses

            “So you ignore the first sentence.”

            No, you ignore what follows, IN CONTEXT, and then proceed to judge others,me precisely, which you are now telling me you are not to do…………………………….and you are wrong.

          • Mike Anderson

            It sounds like you feel righteous, am I right? I’ve looked up the scriptures and some are out of context. Maybe you just used the back of the Bible and the word judge to try and prove a point. God calls us to be humble and willing to receive correction. Are you that? The mans church followed the correct way to address the mans sin. They judged it according to scripture. If the man repents, then great. But to dwell on what he does is between him and God. Maybe a Godly man will help him along the way. But if I would judge the kids I work with and can’t get past the sin, then it’s hard to minister to them.

          • Amos Moses

            Sounds like you went to Bible college and should ask for a refund on your tuition because it did not take or they did a poor job…….

            or maybe they did the job they intended and fed you a line of garbage that you now spout on line as false doctrine.

            Either way…………you are wrong. You cannot bring a person to repentance of their sin if they do not know what SIN IS.

            “To tell a man he is a sinner without telling him what sin is, is like telling him he is under arrest without telling him what he’s charged with.” – Ray Comfort

            “The plain truth is that a right knowledge of sin lies at the root of all saving Christianity. Without it, such doctrines as justification, conversion, sanctification, are `words and names’ which convey no meaning to the mind. The first thing, therefore, that God does when He makes anyone a new creature in Christ, is to send light into his heart and show him that he is a guilty sinner. The material creation in Genesis began with `light,’ and so also does the spiritual creation. God shines into our hearts by the work of the Holy Spirit, and then spiritual life begins . . . . I believe that one of the chief wants of the church . . . has been, and is, clearer, fuller teaching about sin.” – J.C.Ryle

            “All this proceeds from the deepest ignorance of the nature of the properties and use of the Law. And, proves that those who act thus either know not Christ, are strangers to living faith, or are at least but babes in Christ, and as such are unskilled in the word of righteousness.” – John Wesley

          • Mike Anderson

            Take a look at your own heart. Now you attack me. Your not acting very Chrsit like. I will pray for you to see the truth and that God softens your heart.

          • Amos Moses

            I pray you quit spreading false doctrine. My heart is clear, i am a sinner just as everyone else is, including you, i just am not spreading false doctrine. That is a far worse crime, blasphemy actually, to say things God/Christ never said or intended to say or mean.

          • Mike Anderson

            So what did I say that was false? You are so full of pride and self righteousness. Instead of judging others, try looking in the mirror. Every scripture that you told me to look at, points directly at you.

          • Amos Moses

            “So what did I say that was false?
            >>>You are so full of pride and self righteousness. <<<
            Instead of judging others, try looking in the mirror."

            Explain to me how this statement is NOT YOU JUDGING? But you sit here on this forum and pontificate how it is bad and not biblical…. and yet YOU are in violation of what you say you are not to do.

            Kind of like the shamrock calling the grass green.

          • Mike Anderson

            So according to everything you said, if you are a Christian, I can point that out in you. Looks like you are what the world says, typical hypocritical Christian who thinks he is better than everyone else. Who refuses to look in the mirror.

          • Amos Moses

            “So according to everything you said, if you are a Christian, I can point that out in you”

            No, according to scripture………… read 1 John… and don’t skip any of it. 1 John very well lays out who is a christian and who is not. We are to judge ANY who say they are in the church, we are given all authority to do so and we are given stewardship of Christs church, it is not our church, to see that His church IS His church. We are told to beware of false prophets and false doctrines and those who “Creep in unawares” to pervert His church.

            2 Timothy
            3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
            3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
            3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
            3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
            3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
            3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
            3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

            It is not about what i say, it is about what Christ said. Christ is not who we say He is, He is who HE says He is. We do not get to redefine Christ as we would have Him, that is idolatry.

          • Amos Moses

            One day, very soon, antichrist will appear, just as predicted in scripture, and there will be many, like yourself, who will quote Matthew 7, one sentence and out of context, and proclaim……………….

            “How dare you as a christian judge him”……………….

            Hope that works out for you when you stand before Christ/God…….

          • Amos Moses

            Fyi, i put myself somewhere between the Wisconsin and Missouri synod……

          • Mike Anderson

            And I bet you support Trump. Who owns strip clubs. Looks like your bring a hypocritical Christian. You also say that Glen Beck isn’t a Christian. Who are you to know his heart? Are you God? Maybe you should pray about what you post and make sure the Bible supports your ideals before you say it does. If you choose to live by the law, then you die by the law and miss out on the grace of Jesus.

          • Amos Moses

            And you lose your bet… hope it was not a lot of money………..Mormons are not christians, Mormons believe Christ was a brother of satan, they live on a planet called Kolob and that Christ was not born fully man and fully God. Is that the Christ you believe in? i do not know that Christ….so yes, you bet, not a christian…

            “Who are you to know his heart? ”

            Who is the Christ Glenn Beck says he knows, i do not know that Christ. What he says is antichrist, not the Christ of the bible. His words convict him….

            “Maybe you should pray about what you post and make sure the Bible supports your ideals before you say it does.”

            And if you believe Glenn Beck is a christian….. maybe you should take your own advice…

          • Mike Anderson

            You really have some issues. You definitely are not acting like a Christian. I’m done replying because your heart is hardened and you think you know it all. The Bible is very clear about how you are acting. And you do not have a clue about Morons.

          • Amos Moses

            ” You definitely are not acting like a Christian.””And you do not have a clue about Morons.”

            And how would you know?

          • Amos Moses

            ” The Bible is very clear about how you are acting.”

            And yet you cannot support your assertions with any scripture….. Soooo……….

          • Amos Moses

            ” You definitely are not acting like a Christian.” <<<< That is a judgement.

            "And you do not have a clue about Morons." <<<< That is a judgement.

            Kind of hard to live by the rules you are setting for yourself. And actually, Matthew 7 would apply to you in this case, as you are applying a judgement to others that is going to be used to judge you… for judging others.

            Did your precious bible college not tell you about this?

            Why not?

          • Fee

            Did you mean Morons or Mormons???

          • bulldog11

            didnt christ even call herod a fox? and call the scribes den of snakes?

          • Mike Anderson

            Yes he did. We also forget that Jesus spent lots of time in prayer and seeking the Father. He was able to point that out. If we are going to judge, ask ourselves if we are living a life like Jesus? Paul talks about Judging too and pointed out things that were going on in different churches that weren’t good. Our we living a life like Paul? The Bible gives is examples of how to live a Christian life, but we are quick to judge and forget about prayer, fasting and reading the Word.

          • bulldog11

            yea i think your right, he needs to learn the truth!

          • Amos Moses

            “I do not believe that any man can preach the gospel who does not preach the Law. The Law is the needle, and you cannot draw the silken thread of the gospel through a man’s heart unless you first send the needle of the Law to make way for it. If men do not understand the Law, they will not feel they are sinners. And if they are not consciously sinners, they will never value the sin offering. There is no healing a man till the Law has wounded him, no making him alive till the Law has slain him”. – Charles Spurgeon

            “Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right.”
            —C.H. Spurgeon

            You are only “almost right”.

            “It sounds like you feel righteous, am I right?”

            And there you go JUDGING again……………….All you are preaching is law………..

          • bulldog11

            you have not understood the scripture! all your bible college and you still are not against this mans sin. wheres your righteousness that you might stand against sin. did not jesus cast out those selling in the house of god and say my house shall be a house of prayer, it was written he shall scurge the floor, if he turned over the tables and hit those selling in the temple with a whip, what shall he do to those who sin, and not one time have you stood against this mans sin but defended him, if christ will judge us by our sins and we know he will cause its written, then why have you chosen the side thats a not of christ that opposes this mans sin.either we will let sin remain in the church or we will stand against it, and i know which side jesus stands on, as far as you i do not know!maybe if i got a degree in the bible i would be more to allowing sin in the church, but thats kind of how the devil may like it! maybe the devil likes us not speaking out against sin so he can have them turn from god.what side are you on?

          • Mike Anderson

            What good will it do to bash this man? I disagree with what he has done. You should never get a divorce and cheat on your wife. The sin was already addressed by his church. He was under a pastor and elders that out in charge of correcting him. If we talk bad about him, what does that accomplish? We are suppose to build each other up and not tear down, but I see just the opposit from so called Christians.

          • bulldog11

            no one is tearing him down,is it really bashing him to say he sinned?

          • Mike Anderson

            If you sin, should we broadcast it? It’s already been dealt with. Now it’s on him.

          • Amos Moses

            Matthew 7 Read the WHOLE chapter

            Matthew 18:15

            John 7:24

            2 Timothy 3:16

            1 Corinthians 5 & 6

            1 Corinthians 2:15

            Proverbs 27:5, Proverbs 31:9

          • Mike Anderson

            You proved my point. I’m a Bible college graduate, so when your telling me to read scripture and then blatantly disregard others, you forget what the Bible says. The Bible says to read it in its entirety. Jesus taught us to focus on the heart, not the sin. Your focused on pointing out sin. Maybe you should check your own heart. We also are taught to love our neighbors and enemies. Can you love this man and look past his sin? That’s what Jesus would do. Jesus spent time with sinners. He was friends with them. who is Jesus to you? How did Jesus treat the disciples when they sinned? Peter denied Jesus. Jesus forgave Judas. If you want a better idea on how to correct sin, look at Jesus because he was perfect.

          • Amos Moses

            “We also are taught to love our neighbors and enemies. Can you love this man and look past his sin?”

            We show our love by pointing out sin and then helping the sinner recover. If they deny they are in sin, it is upon us to get them to see it, and if they still refuse, to cast them out of the church, the assembly of believers, to satan for the redemption of their soul.

            Is that not so? And pray tell, how do you do that without JUDGEMENT?

          • bulldog11

            will jesus look past the seven churches sins or judge them for it? doesnt he state something about fornication in revelations? if he will judge those who commit fornication, then how are we in the wrong? have you not read what jesus said to his desiples what sins you remit are remitted and what sins you retained are retained?your a graduate of a bible college surely you know this?

          • Mike Anderson

            Yes, of course we need to judge. But are we doing it out of love? Or disgusted by the sin so that we condemn them like the people did to the woman caught in adultery. We also need to seek God first and allow him to guide us. I have seen churches just address it under their own strength and the person leaves the church. The Bible tells us clearly on how to handle sin in the church, but some Christians would rather beat the person over the head with the Bible. Some Christians think that they are perfect and better than everyone. Pride is one sin that runs wild through Christians, but never addressed. That’s why we need to make ourselves right before we point out the sin in others.

          • bulldog11

            was paul who seen jesus and who we follow his teaching was he in the wrong when he spoke of the guy who had sex with his fathers wife saying he should be abolished as a brethren, was his assignment of this wrong or right, and what gave him the authority to judge this manner? was paul prideful when he done this?

          • Mike Anderson

            Paul did have the right. Paul did stuff to correct people and Paul also said that he knows what is right, but still continues to sin. It becomes pride when you think that you are better than the person. Any time we take our eyes off of God and direct them toward ourselves, it becomes pride. God gives us the authority and context on how to correct someone. If the person wants to continue in the sin, then we treat them as an unbeliever who needs to be saved.

          • bulldog11

            do we show love by letting our brethen stay in sin and say nothing that they may be judged of christ whose judgement is more feirse than our words? we call these things sin and you say dont judge them. so lets keep our mouth shut and say nothing and let sin stay in the church, lets not say anything so the sinners who would enter in dont enter in cause the church is no different than this sinnful world, what cause will they have to enter in if the church is like them? do you know judgement always came upon the jews for their sins and not the world cause they were his people, did you not read the scripture judgement must first come to the house of god?if it comes to us first then should we not preach against sin? that me may be judge through his mercy instead of his wrath. if he comes in wrath then should we not lift up our voice angaist those who sin in the church so his wrath dont come upon them?

          • Amos Moses

            6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
            6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
            6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
            6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
            6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

            AGAIN………”and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?”

        • bulldog11

          thats right so if we take the blank out we can see to pull it out of our brothers eye, you know the blank is sin right, so didnt jeus just give us authority to pull the blank out of our brothers eye if we first pull it from our own eye, dont it say if the blind lead the blind they both fall into the ditch, so tell me are we going to be a church full of blind leading the blind or are we going to be the ones leading others out of sin?if we all remain blind with our blank we all fall into the ditch, but how can we see unless our sin is cast from us and we turn from our sin, this is the only way to lead others out of sin, and how are we going to tell someone what sin is if we dont preach it? how will the ears hear if no one speaks, if no one preaches?clearly you have not understood the judge not yet you be judged.its funny this is the only scripture any sinner has to stand on, they love preaching that scripture to those trying to lead them out of sin, but they dont live by all the other scriptures, will saying judge not save the sinner from his sin or turning from his sin? how can they turn from it if no one tells them they are in sin? how can we call sin a sin unless we can rightly judge what sin is?

  • Charles

    Does anyone know how God views this situation?

    • hytre64

      God has given us His Word, which includes qualifications for leadership within the Church. It also has guidelines for if your spouse divorces you, and how singles ought to behave.

      As a start for you, why don’t you read Titus 1:5-9 and 1 Tim 3:2-7 on qualifications for leadership within God’s Church. Pray before you read, and see if the Holy Spirit speaks to you through His Word.

      • Charles

        Yes. Thank you I was more interested in the grounds for his divorce according to God’s Law.

    • Amos Moses

      They read their bible………..

      • Charles

        Right… I know the answer, it doesn’t seem many here know. Thanks.

  • RKI

    If you have the Holy Spirit (Voice of God) He will convict you or many churches don’t have the Spirit of God (revelation direction) or there is no manifestation demonstration in the power of the Holy Ghost (the gifts of the Spirit) mmh. The Love of God is the Father, the Face of God is Jesus, the Voice of God is the Holy Spirit, the Hand of God is you. Bless you

  • RKI

    Why?

  • Tonya Abernathy Phillips

    I’m guessing he’s never read his bible since he seems to think she is a woman of integrity. …. I wonder if he’s ever heard the word fornication before? ?? It’s all lights, flesh and money to these people. No real submission to Christ, no crucifying your flesh, no following Him. They are deceived and God will not be mocked, their end will be destruction.

    • bulldog11

      i believe in your words!

  • Jean Hoffman

    I, personally, feel that today’s world uses the scriptures to condemn instead of bring life within the anointed. If God has forgiven him, who do we think we are still to hild his sin against him and say things like “he obviously can’t handle this leadership position, best he step down” or “i hope he doesn’t lead the worship team anymore”.

    If we are the voice of God, being baptised by water AND by Spirit, having confessed our own sins, repented and then reconciled back to God, allowing the Holy Spirit to renew our minds, then surely we can see past his human, fleahly, error and allow him to continue in his calling for God? Who are we to say otherwise? How do we know what happens in the privacy of his prayer time AND the time spent with his elders? Even though he is in the public eye, i don’t think it is any of our business if he truly has worked through every single step we, simple-minded humans, understand to be the right way to having a clean slate with God. What skeletons do we jave that we don’t even acknowledge, let alone repent from?

    He has done the right thing, confessed, asked for forgiveness and that means his slate is clean with God allowing him to take up his cross once more with NO CONDEMNATION and serve him in all righteousness.

    The prophetic voice of the modern church doesn’t comfort people anymore, nor does it bring forth edification or exhortation as it should (1 Cor 14:3). God’s word brings life, not death and condemnation. If we use scripture alone, without allowing the fullness of Christ to be reflected upon, then all we will be doing is giving a person even more reason to not want to know the Christian faith because they’ll just be reminded of their sin time and time again, instead of being reminded of the calling they have on their life.

    Would you want to stand before God as the person who reminded people of their sib and why they shouldn’t carry out their calling, or would you want God to say to you “well done, my good and faithful servant” for bronging in theblost and covering them with the love of God (because we all know we will fail hopelessly in showing love to a sinner).

    God’s ways are not our ways. We best just judge ourselves and keep our opinions of others between us and God in our prayer time only.

    The modern church is selling Grace, tickling our ears with a motivation speech, and this leaves everyone the space to voice their opinion, from human understanding, instead of Grace and mercy direct from His throne room.

    How i long for the prophetic and apostolic voice to rise up…..

    • Amos Moses

      ” If God has forgiven him, who do we think we are still to hild his sin against him and say things like “he obviously can’t handle this leadership position, best he step down” or “i hope he doesn’t lead the worship team anymore”.”

      God may have forgiven him. We may have forgiven him…. but that does not alter the fact that he held that position and did what he did. He may be qualified for another position, just not the position he was in.

      But further, this is Osteens “church”, not Christs church, Osteen does not preach christianity or anything close to it. So i guess he can do whatever he wants,,,, he is anyway.

  • Fee

    I took another look at the photos and noticed a ring on Adrienne’s wedding ring finger and one on Israel’s. If they are married, he can clear most of this mess up by simply saying so. I just find it totally shocking and odd that an anointed, matured man of God such as Israel would be frolicking on the beach with this woman and not be married to her. It’s not like he’s a babe in Christ, therefore, I would think he knows better. Despite his choice in a woman, perhaps they are married????? By the way, what happened to “I’m in love with a church girl,” Israel? Wow, just wow!

  • James L Georgeson

    If you were a real Christian, shouldn’t God have saved your marriage? You’ve been exposed. Stop hurting Christianity. This is no behavior for any Christian man to have

  • James L Georgeson

    Is this a Christian site? because from reading these reply’s, you have me fooled. Wow