Atheist Activist Group Objects to Public School Visits to Ken Ham’s Creation Museum

Creation Museum-compressedMADISON, Wisc. — A professing atheist activist organization is expressing its objection to three public schools that either have already or plan to visit Ken Ham’s Creation Museum in Kentucky.

The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) recently sent letters to officials with Brookville High School in Dayton, Ohio, Jackson Independent School District in Kentucky, and the Big Beaver Falls School District in Pennsylvania to urge the cancellation of the trips to Petersburg.

“It is unconstitutional for a public school to take students on a field trip to a religious venue such as the Creation Museum, a Christian museum which promotes the religious doctrine of creationism and lists is mission as ‘to point today’s culture back to the authority of Scripture and proclaim the gospel message,'” the letters read.

A press release from the organization also notes that Ham’s 75,0000 square foot museum features “a diorama of a human and a dinosaur together, implying that they existed simultaneously. Each display contrasts science with a literalist interpretation of the Bible.”

FRRF says that the school trips to the Creation Museum “excludes non-Christian and non-religious students” and are not permissible even though attendance is voluntary and comes at no cost to the districts.

Jackson City School and Brookville High School have already visited the venue, and Big Beaver Falls High School plans to attend later this month. FFRF advised district officials that they should rather take the children to secular venues rather than those who provide evidence for biblical creation.

“If the … district is interested in engaging its students by going on an educational field trip, there are many secular museums and other educational opportunities available,” the letters state.

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The correspondence to the Big Beaver Falls School District adds, “The district must immediately cancel the planned May 20 field trip and refrain from taking young students on inappropriate, unconstitutional religious trips in the future.”

Ken Ham told Christian News Network in a statement that he doesn’t believe it is illegal for public schools to visit the Creation Museum as long as it is done objectively.

“If public schools were bringing students here and their teachers were saying, ‘THIS interpretation is the only truth that you should personally accept,’ then that would be a violation of the Establishment Clause of the Constitution,” he said. “However, if students come here in an objective fashion and teachers show them our first-class exhibits and present our group’s interpretation of the origin of man, then the field trip is fine as an exceptional and voluntary educational/cultural experience.”

“Public school officials should neither personally endorse nor diminish the museum’s view, but rather present our beliefs objectively,” Ham stated.

He said that FFRF likely opposes field trips to the Creation Museum because the atheist organization doesn’t like other views besides evolutionary theory being presented to children.

“Groups like the FFRF attempt to bully such schools because they don’t want anyone to have an opportunity to know about another interpretation of origins than evolution,” Ham remarked.

As previously reported, the first textbook used in the American colonies even before the nation’s founding, “The New England Primer,” was largely focused on the Scriptures, and was stated to be popular in public and private schools alike until approximately the early 1900’s. It used mostly the King James Bible as reference, and spoke much about sin, salvation and proper behavior.

“Save me, O God, from evil all this day long, and let me love and serve Thee forever, for the sake of Jesus Christ, Thy Son,” it read.

Many of the Founders’ children learned to read from the primer.

Harvard University, the first university founded in America, possessed the motto “Truth for Christ and the Church.” It was named after minister John Havard.

“Let every scholar be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well the main end of his life and studies is to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life. Therefore, to lay Christ in the bottom as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning,” the institution declared.


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  • bowie1

    The FFRF are cowards who are afraid to have kids being exposed to views other than the ultra-orthodox one that the FFRF would support exclusively to the rejection of all others.

    • Tangent002

      It is the same as taking a busload of kids to a Scientology Center.

      I would have no problem with it were it a part of a class on basic epistemology. I doubt that is the intent here.

    • Frank Dorka

      Religious indoctrination to the young is child abuse.

      • Amos Moses

        LOL!!!.

        • Frank Dorka

          If you are a Christian the chances are high that you have:
          A. the same faith as your parents
          B. never read the Bible for yourself
          C. get your Biblical and political knowledge from the pulpit
          D. All of the above.

          • Amos Moses

            A. No
            B. No
            C. No
            And by default D. No

            Four strikes, you are outta there………

          • Frank Dorka

            You must be a “real” Christian. I’ll be danged.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Same answers for me. Why are the New Atheists such strawmen?!? We (former) Old Atheists would never have stooped to such a level. We were all about “live and let live,” not “tear down that cross!” and “bake me a cake or else!” New Atheists refute themselves by being so angry at the God they claim to not believe in.

            Do you spend a disproportionate time of your life being angry at fictional villains like Lex Luther?!? Me neither.

      • bowie1

        So is science which requires a person to evaluate what is being taught. We are all indoctrinated in one way or another but just in different ways and means.

        • dakdakdakdak

          >So is science which requires a person to evaluate what is being taught.

          Take a second to read what you just wrote. You just said it’s abuse to encourage someone to think critically about what they’re told.

          If you teach someone absolute obedience to any authority, and rejection of critical thought,you are teaching them to suppress any form of individuality, freedom, creativity, or leadership.

          That’s a terrible mindset to have and I hope that you change your mind before having any children

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            The bible doesn’t teach rejection of critical thought or to suppress individuality, freedom, creativity, or leadership. So, this is something you’ve decided all on your own as part of your efforts to enjoy demeaning people while you actually haven’t learned anything to make such claims.

            Now if you want to talk about absolute authority… We have to give such authority even to law enforcement, so I do not see how you couldn’t grasp that the creator of you, me, everything else, would not be worthy of having the highest authority. Seeing as how he designed everything and knows how it works correctly, and so he gives us the information to live by according to HIS design to protect us, why wouldn’t he be in authority?. But you want to twist that into something terrible to be feared? Okay…

    • Randy Wanat

      So, you have no problem with your child being taken, by the public school, using tax dollars and endorsed by the government, to an Islamic museum that explains why the Koran is the one true and inerrant word of Allah as dictated to his prophet Mohammed? You would not raise any stink about the school taking your child somewhere that will explicitly tell them a particular religious belief is correct and all others are wrong? Reeeeeeeeeeally?

      • bowie1

        If I had a child as long as it’s a casual explanatory trip of what they were about without having to submit to a religious exercise. A person can even come to a church as a mere observer (such as a non-believing relative at a funeral such as someone I know) and not a participant.

        • Randy Wanat

          Do you understand that the government endorsing a particular religious belief is a violation of the first amendment? Do you care if the government follows the law?

    • gogo0

      you can indoctrinate your kids on sundays and every day after school if you like, teach them things like humans and dinosaurs lived side-by-side or whatever you like. the FFRF has no issue with that, and aside from actively promoting and instilling children with ignorance, neither do most atheists.
      keep it off the public’s dime and you can make kids as dumb as you want.

      • bowie1

        You forget it is also on the “dime” of those parents who oppose Darwinian Lies and fabrications.

  • John Munro

    Atheist = do not believe in God?yet atheist = can not claim to not believe an try control every aspect of the field of belief since you are afraid to believe in anything.

    hyp·o·crite
    ˈhipəˌkrit/
    noun
    noun: hypocrite; plural noun: hypocrites
    a person who indulges in hypocrisy.
    synonyms:pretender, dissembler, deceiver, liar, pietist, sanctimonious person, plaster saint; informalphony, fraud, sham, fake
    “I’ve been made to feel inadequate my whole life by someone who turns out to be a total hypocrite”
    Origin
    Middle English: from Old French ypocrite, via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek hupokritēs ‘actor,’ from hupokrinesthai (see hypocrisy).
    Translate hypocrite to
    Use over time for: hypocrite

    • Tangent002

      Is English your second language?

      • John Munro

        every attempt to change the subject . If it was his second language? The subject is your attack on God because you afraid of We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
        that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
        that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.-

        • Tangent002

          I’m not trying to change the subject. I have no idea what he’s trying to say.

    • Frank Dorka

      Matthew 6: 5-6

    • Randy Wanat

      Demanding that people follow the law isn’t trying to control people. Do you want public schools taking kids to Islamic museums that explains why Islam is the one true faith and all others are wrong?

    • Skeptic NY

      No – we would like public schools to abide by the law and the Constitution of The United States. You have plenty of time privately and in Sunday School to teach your children your particular mythology and fairy tales.

  • DKeane123

    “As previously reported, the first textbook used in the American colonies even before the nation’s founding, “The New England Primer,” was largely focused on the Scriptures…” All of a sudden this article takes a left turn here. What gives? Is the author trying to say that it is okay that we bring kids to a creationist museum because we used to use the bible in education back in the day? The Bible has very clearly been demonstrated not to be an educational resource about how the world works. And just because we used to do something doesn’t make it okay – we used to also allow slavery.

    • Randy Wanat

      Slavery? Explicitly endorsed, and never condemned, in the Bible.

      • John Munro

        ???

        • Randy Wanat

          Leviticus 25:44-46
          Exodus 21:1-36
          Ephesians 6:5

          That’s just a taste, but at no point is slavery condemned. It is allowed, condoned, endorsed, regulated, and not just indentured servitude, but good ol’ human trafficking from other societies to be sold and even enslaving the survivors of military conquests, with the slaves being property of their owners and able to be passed to heirs. Yes, full-blown slavery is advocated in the Bible, and not once is condemned.

          • Skeptic NY

            Yep – Slavery didn’t even make the top ten things not to do but working on Sunday did. Go figure.

    • gizmo23

      Ms. Clark uses that writing technique in her articles.

  • Frank Dorka

    You Christians can shove your religion anywhere you want except when it comes to public education and public property. Is that not enough for you?

    • TheBottomline4This

      Everyone pays toward the public school system and public property, so we do get a say like it or not. Is that good enough for you?

      • Frank Dorka

        Sure, have your say, but do not come close to being suspect of having your group endorse one major religion. But then Christians would never do such a thing, right? Why it’s against the Constitution.

        • TheBottomline4This

          “but do not come close to being suspect of having your group endorse one major religion” What do you mean by this???

          • Frank Dorka

            I mean “pull your head out of your thinking end”.

            (pssst, it’s in the Constitution.)

          • Frank Dorka

            The same as the last 200 years in this country. Christian PRIVILEGE.
            You know, Bible in Public Schools, Bible verses at High School football games, prayer in school and government meetings, “In God We Trust” on courthouses and police cars, “Under God” in our pledge, Ten Commandment monuments on public land and Nativity scenes at state Capitol buildings. Need more?

          • TheBottomline4This

            As I said, you’re a fool Frankie. Take your childish thinking and go color you “diplomas”.

          • Frank Dorka

            I’m the fool and YOU still don’t get it???

          • TheBottomline4This

            Yes, you’re the fool. God will show you, unless you repent Frankie. Your choice.

          • Frank Dorka

            Do you mean faith is a choice…just like homosexuality?

          • TheBottomline4This

            Glad you know homosexuality is a choice.

          • Frank Dorka

            I knew you would grab onto that? Hate the gays because thay had a choice and you did not? Did you choose to be straight as well as a bigot?

          • TheBottomline4This

            Aww, Frankie has finally crossed further to the dark side. Tisk, tisk.

          • Frank Dorka

            As long as the “dark side” does not include man riding on the backs of dinosaurs, I’ll be okay. Walking on water? Forget it.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Poor Frankie Dork.

          • Frank Dorka

            Yup. Not afraid to use my real name. Forget your humor about names. I heard it all…in the 7th grade!
            What is your real name, honey? Or are you afraid?

          • TheBottomline4This

            Not afraid at all Frankie. Those whom I know and trust know it. I don’t trust you and the little I know about you isn’t pretty.

          • Frank Dorka

            But you do know my name, and like many other good Christians you can now threaten my life and the lives of my family. Yes, your brothers and sisters have threatened me at many levels. Why don’t you as well. You have done about everything else. Show me how not pretty I am.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Why would I threaten your life??? That’s stupid if someone is doing that. Just as stupid as your “people” who have threatened me or hoping I get cancer, etc. for not supporting gay sex or transgenders…they and their supporters are vicious if you don’t agree with their choices. I’m not going to threaten you or your family’s lives. That wouldn’t solve anything Frankie. I don’t really know how “not pretty” you are or are not…you don’t show your picture 🙂

          • Frank Dorka

            But YOU do know MY name.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Duh, you put it there. Oh wait, were you forced to put your name against your will? Did someone have a gun to your head? No, it was a choice you made.
            I’d atleast change it to F. Dorka or Frank D. or my fave…Frankie D.

          • Frank Dorka

            Thanx. You are sweet.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Eh, I have my days 🙂

      • Ambulance Chaser

        No, that’s not good enough for me. This country is not operated by mob rule. We have a Constitution to adhere to.

      • Tangent002

        Churches are tax-exempt. Teach your children your religion in your churches.

    • bowie1

      So long as you don’t shove your alleged science down kids throats which is not science at all as Darwin and others saw/see it.

      • TheBottomline4This

        Science has it’s merits, but it also has it’s limits, which includes fallacies.

      • Frank Dorka

        None are so blind…Hmmm. Man from dirt, woman from his rib, a talking snake, a magic apple, suddenly SHAME!!! Who did Abel and Cain marry, tell me that?

        • TheBottomline4This

          As if evolution makes sense…LOL

          • Frank Dorka

            Yes, it does. The Bible doesn’t explain extinction either. But it does exist, believe me. Science is reality, religion is bullsh it.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Science has it’s merits, but it also has it’s limits, which includes fallacies.
            You’re a fool Frankie.

          • Frank Dorka

            I disagree and so do my diplomas.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Your “diplomas” are just paper dear. A fire can destroy those in a second.

          • Frank Dorka

            Just like the Bible.

          • Frank Dorka

            Or when you burned the witches?

          • Frank Dorka

            Do you believe in fire or is it something that only God could create?

          • TheBottomline4This

            See. you’re showing your foolishness again Frankie. I haven’t burned anyone dear.

          • Tangent002

            Not really, no. The paper diploma is just a record of the education received. Frank can get another copy from the school if the original is destroyed.

          • TheBottomline4This

            heehee true, but his mind set shows it was a waste of money, if he’s even telling the truth about it in the first place.

  • TheBottomline4This

    So I’m told by those who think it’s ok to get an Abortion, that if I don’t want one, don’t do it.
    Well whiny Atheists, if you don’t want to go to Hams museum, don’t go. Mind your own business and let these schools decide for themselves.
    A question would be, what are they afraid of??? There’s nothing to believe in anyways…right???

    • DKeane123

      I think if it was a religious studies class, I wouldn’t have any issue with it. They could also be brought to a Jewish Temple, Mosque, and other places to demonstrate what different religions believe.

      But of course, that isn’t what is going on. This is Christianity getting special treatment relative to other religions, by claiming their mythology is scientific fact – which couldn’t be farther from the truth.

      • TheBottomline4This

        All other mythologies are not true, only Christianity is. Biblical Christianity that is. There are many who say they are Christian, but aren’t.

        “Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:21-23

        • DKeane123

          Thank you for dogmatically quoting scripture, you have added additional weight to my position.

          If this was an explicitly Islamic website I would have gotten a quote from the Quran about how it is the one true religion. Same goes for Scientology, Mormonism, etc…

          • TheBottomline4This

            It doesn’t matter what they would say. They are wrong. Jesus is the only way to Heaven. All other gods are false and lead to Hell.

          • EverythingYouKnowIsWrong!

            And they would write something like “It doesn’t matter what you say. You are wrong. My religion is the only way to Heaven. All other gods are false and lead to Hell.”

            Do you really not see this?

          • TheBottomline4This

            That doesn’t really mean anything, and I know you can’t see it.

          • EverythingYouKnowIsWrong!

            They would say that your opinion “doesn’t really mean anything” either.

            So you really can’t see it.

          • Skeptic NY

            2/3 of the planet disagrees with you. 2/3 of the planet think you are worshiping the wrong god. Please tell us by what validated method did you use in determining which out of the 3000+ claimed gods was the correct one?

          • TheBottomline4This

            I’m skeptical that you even really care.
            God will show you one day skeptic boy.

          • The Last Trump

            HE undeniably proved it. Repeatedly.
            Look into HIM and find out for yourself.
            The evidence is overwhelming and it’s all around you.
            Do yourself a favour and check it out.

          • George T

            The Last Trump: *He* didn’t, as I deny that your claims have been proven. Therefore, it’s not undeniable. Repeatedly.

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            Because only the bible has the power of prophecy fulfilled throughout history to back it up as true. These other “religions” do not.
            In fact following God is not a religion,religion is a man made thing… And because these false ones are created, it paints an idea that there is no right choice, since there are many, none of them could possibly be true.
            But if you actually learn, you would see the truth for yourself.

          • acontraryview

            “Because only the bible has the power of prophecy fulfilled throughout history to back it up as true. ”

            The writings in the NT regarding the fulfillment of prophesy were based upon prophesy in the OT. It was, in other words, an open book test. Pretty easy to write about how prophesy was fulfilled when you have the prophesy in front of you, huh?

          • awareoftruth

            If we refuse the historical scientific/archeological evidence of the Bible, how do we approach all other human history? I’ve asked myself that question before. And this is the truth: I don’t know of any other book that has more evidence to back its authenticity and place in human history. It’s a fascinating book. I would have never said this 5 years ago. But, I’m telling you- it’s really, really eye opening. It’s a patient read and takes a great deal of study to understand it… But there’s the book of Psalms in the old testament (poetry, metaphors and symbolism). The temple on the mount is in the Gospel (new testament). This is the recording of Jesus giving his sermon. Anyway, religion has deeply corrupted the reputation of the Bible. After all, Jesus spoke against religious hypocrites; as a result he was charged, sentenced and brutally murdered. I feel like I could write a book on it There’s a really remarkable passage in the OT by the prophet Isaiah. His writing has been paralleled to events taking place in modern New York. I’m often skeptical about these things- most critical thinkers are. Sorry for the long post- just wanted to share… “Lee Strobel” is a worth-while author too.

          • Randy Wanat

            Tell us about all the evidence of the Exodus. Or, the evidence that Moses ever actually existed. Then, explain why DNA and linguistics directly contradict the Bible’s claims about Noah’s flood/Adam and Eve and the tower of Babel, respectively. Then, tell us about all the evidence of any of the supernatural claims in the Bible. Then, show all the evidence that a single man named Yeshua bar Yusef from Nazareth had magical powers and was born of a virgin, and was later crucified by the Romans.

            Better yet, acknowledge that “I don’t know of anything with more authentication, therefore everything it says is true” is a fundamentally flawed argument.

          • Bob Johnson

            I take it that you are not a proponent of the Documentary Hypothesis.

          • Matthew Alton

            I’ve read it. Meh.

          • acontraryview

            “They are wrong.”

            Basis?

          • TheBottomline4This

            Why do you want proof about something you claim to not believe anyway. I don’t believe in unicorns, therefore I don’t give them much if any thought. If someone wants to believe in unicorns I’m not bothered by that. That is their choice. You are pro choice…right???

          • acontraryview

            You made a definitive claim that all other beliefs other than the Christian believe are wrong. I asked you what the basis for your claim was. Rather than provide an answer you attempted to deflect to a discussion of unicorns. Do you not the basis of your claim?

          • TheBottomline4This

            See, you want a debate. I’m not going to debate with you given you wouldn’t believe anyways regardless of what I share. I’ve been through that back and forth before. Atheist see a story connected to them, their minions come and try to fight for what they believe (or don’t believe) and think they’ll shed light on the nothing they believe in. I don’t play that game anymore. It’s old and predictable. I don’t have to back my claim. It is true and one day you will realize that. I’m fine with you believing whatever you want.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Funny how people who obviously do not believe in the word of God or the Messiah come into a Christian post and start debates and expect all the Christians on the site to accommodate them. No one here has to prove anything to you. Christianity is based on faith. We simply believe the word of God to be truth by faith. Can we use history and science many times to back up what the word of God says? YES! But must we have evidence to back the word of God up to make it truth? NO! If you choose not to believe in the God who CREATED ALL things, that is your choice, yet one stands to wonder why if that is your choice you choose to be on a Christian New site. Could it be it is you who doubts what you believe to be true? Could it be that you yourself do not fully believe in all your supposed evidence you use to proclaim there is no God or that there are many gods?

          • tatoo

            Lol.

          • http://www.rejectingjesus.com Acalibre

            You so funny. Everybody’s wrong except you – hilarious! I wonder where it says in your Magic Book that you’re going to Heaven? Oh, that’s right – it doesn’t! Instead, Jesus said he’d be returning to establish the Kingdom of Heaven here on Earth while his disciples were still alive (in Matthew 16:27-28, 24:27, 30-31, 34 and in Luke 21:27-28, 33-34).

            How’d that work out then?

        • Skeptic NY

          Did you know that Harry Potter was a wizard? I know this because it says so in a book called “Harry Potter”. I can quote from that book if you like.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Harry Potter is silly skeptic boy.

          • Gary Whiteman

            Amazing that you can read. The typical atheist guy is single and spends most of his time watching videos of strangers having emotionless sex.

          • The Last Trump

            Please refrain from mentioning Harry Potter. Groups like FFRF who despise actual freedoms like freedom of speech and freedom of religious expression really don’t appreciate it when you discuss topics they don’t agree with or believe in, like magic.
            And thusly, must, of course, be censored and outright banned.
            Thank you.

          • George T

            The Last Trump: False assertion.

          • Ronald Carter

            The Freedom from Religion Foundation does not believe in magic.

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            Does Harry Potter have prophecy fulfilled throughout history?
            Is Harry Potter claiming to be God, the creator?
            Is Harry Potter claiming to be the truth and the way to salvation? Is it documenting real people and real places in history, where real events occurred? No, it is a work of fiction with 100% certainty, it never claims to be true, so comparing the two is a sad attempt to ridicule others, because you don’t even know what you’re talking about, but want to think you do.
            I do not believe the words of the bible just because it claims it is what it is. Maybe that is an unfortunate lack of faith from me…but the power of prophecy is given to back it up as true, that is why God gave it.
            Now, if you still want to sit and doubt, then you will not even be capable of accepting it as true… You will read it and continue to say it’s not true, but hold onto the big bang theory, which is not proven, and hold onto that as your solid truth. It is your choice to make.
            You will ignore the phenomenon of your own existence, your own existence on an orb in a universe filled with things beyond our limited understanding, which could easily be called something on the same level of a “fairytale”, but will call any possibility of God a fairytale?…
            Only humans with our limited intelligence, being prideful, thinking they know all…only humans can exist, no possibility of a higher intelligence?
            While we are able to create, only we can create, right? There is no possibility a higher intelligence can create too?
            That is your choice to live in a little box, manipulated by whatever tv and limited government teaching wants to tell you, because only THEY have the truth in your view, no one else can, they know best.
            But one way is promising death, and one way is promising life.
            In the end if you are wrong, you have everything to lose.
            If the end if you are right, then it didn’t even matter in the first place, because once you die, it will be like you never existed at all and this discussion is pointless.

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            Also I will let you know… Hell is not eternal burning. The decision is eternal, but the burning is not. That is a lie perpetuated by false teachers to manipulate and control people.
            If people choose to reject God and live and learn by the ways of the world, then they build their character against him and couldn’t live with him in eternity. If a person just wants to live their own way and not have respect to God, it’s the same as a spoiled child not listening to a parent who knows better.
            God created this world out of love, he created us out of love. He wants to give us life and only life. But that can only happen if we accept living according to his design. We have a choice, to realize that a creator will have his specific design where things will run correctly and accept that, or live outside of that and have things become chaos. But he cannot allow chaos, with pain, death and suffering as results, to occur for eternity. It will be ended sooner than you think.

        • Tangent002

          You can’t use your book to prove the validity of your book.

          • TheBottomline4This

            I can use it or nothing.
            God will show you soon enough dear 🙂

          • Frank Dorka

            Same old line.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Same old foolish Frankie.

          • Frank Dorka

            Same old same old.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Yes you are Frankie.

          • Frank Dorka

            Yawn.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

          • Frank Dorka

            Snort…mmmm….mmmm….

          • TheBottomline4This

            Right back at ya.

          • Tangent002

            “Wait ’til your father gets home!”

            Really? Is that the best you got?

          • TheBottomline4This

            Oh Tangee. Believe what you want. I’m not forcing you to choose otherwise. Your beef is really with God, not me. Go to Him or ignore Him. It’s your choice.

          • Tangent002

            He never picks up the phone and His voicemail box is always full.

          • The Last Trump

            Sure we can.
            Particularly when history, physics, astronomy, archaeology, biology, and prophecy ALL back IT up.
            Sorry bud. Truth is truth.

          • Tangent002

            Let me know when that happens, okay?

          • The Last Trump

            Sorry bub.
            Not my job.
            Remain in your ignorance or get informed. Your life.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            How exactly does astronomy back the Bible up?

            I’m just honestly curious as to how you think it does. I could easily say it does the opposite.

          • Ronald Carter

            You mean like God “letting there be light” a couple days before he created the sun?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Or for that matter….before the sun was created, what the heck was a ‘day’, anyway?

          • Ronald Carter

            Then there’s the small matter that the earth isn’t flat.

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            Does Harry Potter have prophecy fulfilled throughout history?
            Is Harry Potter claiming to be God, the creator?
            Is Harry Potter claiming to be the truth and the way to salvation? Is it documenting real people and real places in history, where real events occurred? No, it is a work of fiction with 100% certainty, it never claims to be true, so comparing the two is a sad attempt to ridicule others, because you don’t even know what you’re talking about, but want to think you do.
            I do not believe the words of the bible just because it claims it is what it is. Maybe that is an unfortunate lack of faith from me…but the power of prophecy is given to back it up as true, that is why God gave it.
            Now, if you still want to sit and doubt, then you will not even be capable of accepting it as true… You will read it and continue to say it’s not true, but hold onto the big bang theory, which is not proven, and hold onto that as your solid truth. It is your choice to make.
            You will ignore the phenomenon of your own existence, your own existence on an orb in a universe filled with things beyond our limited understanding, which could easily be called something on the same level of a “fairytale”, but will call any possibility of God a fairytale?…
            Only humans with our limited intelligence, being prideful, thinking they know all…only humans can exist, no possibility of a higher intelligence?
            While we are able to create, only we can create, right? There is no possibility a higher intelligence can create too?
            That is your choice to live in a little box, manipulated by whatever tv and limited government teaching wants to tell you, because only THEY have the truth in your view, no one else can, they know best.
            But one way is promising death, and one way is promising life.
            In the end if you are wrong, you have everything to lose.
            If the end if you are right, then it didn’t even matter in the first place, because once you die, it will be like you never existed at all and this discussion is pointless.

            Also I will let you know… Hell is not eternal burning. The decision is eternal, but the burning is not. That is a lie perpetuated by false teachers to manipulate and control people.
            If people choose to reject God and live and learn by the ways of the world, then they build their character against him and couldn’t live with him in eternity. If a person just wants to live their own way and not have respect to God, it’s the same as a spoiled child not listening to a parent who knows better.
            God created this world out of love, he created us out of love. He wants to give us life and only life. But that can only happen if we accept living according to his design. We have a choice, to realize that a creator will have his specific design where things will run correctly and accept that, or live outside of that and have things become chaos. But he cannot allow chaos, with pain, death and suffering as results, to occur for eternity. It will be ended sooner than you think.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Yes I can and did.

        • acontraryview

          Using verses from the Bible to prove that the Bible is true would be like using verses from Harry Potter to prove that magic is true.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Believe what you want. I’m fine with that 🙂

          • acontraryview

            Right back at ya.

        • Cady555

          “My true unprovable myths are true. Your false unprovable myths are false. nya nya nuh nya nya.”

          I was taught that that passage was to be used for self reflection, not as a weapon against others.

          • TheBottomline4This

            A weapon??? lol

        • tatoo

          How do you know other mythologies are not true? Hindu mythology is older than Christianity, as is Buddhism, Judaism, Paganism, Zoroastrian and many more. They all believe theirs is the one true religion. So why do you think yours is?

      • AlwaysPursueTruth

        But the big bang is a theory, and it is being taught as a fact, so what is the difference? Just that you have accepted to believe the big bang theory is true, despite not learning the truth of the bible.
        It is your choice.
        And everyone should have a choice.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          “theory” doesn’t mean “unproven”, at least when scientists call something a theory.

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            Oh, so it is proven?
            If not, then it’s unproven…

          • TheKingOfRhye

            It’s a very well substantiated theory. I don’t think scientists really speak of theories as ‘proven’, when any theory can be modified. My point is mainly, though, that a scientific theory is “a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation,” and not what people use the word to mean in everyday conversation, as in a “guess” or a “hypothesis.” It’s why there’s things like a theory of gravity.

            Also, the big bang theory probably isn’t exactly what you think it is, either.

          • DKeane123

            Binary thinking is not how it works. There are degrees of certainty relative the amount and quality of the evidence. Something like Evolutionary or Germ Theory has reached the pinnacle of certainty due to the weight of evidence. But in science nothing is ever absolutely proven – just ask Newton. Everything is open for reexamination with the arrival of new evidence. I see from your questions that you are not trained in the sciences.

        • DKeane123

          The Big Bang is taught as the scientific theory that best fits the available data. And the amount of data is pretty overwhelming. You comment would have science class teaching every possible explanation l, regardless of the ability to provide evidence to back up the proposition. World on a turtle back, woman from a rib, hint and yang. That is not the way to truth – it is the way to mythology class

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Schools are not people. They’re arms of the government.

      • TheBottomline4This

        People and government come from God. No matter how wrong the choices are that each of those can make, God trumps their wrong choices every time!!!

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Okay, that’s nice, but it really has nothing to do with the FFRF’s position, or this story.

          • TheBottomline4This

            You do realize you are not taken seriously on this Christian site, right?? Most consider you a Troll.

          • Frank Dorka

            I don’t mind being a troll, as long as I am right.

          • TheBottomline4This

            And the reply wasn’t even directed to you. You are a Troll and of course you don’t mind it…your ignorance is your bliss. You are anything but right Frankie.

          • Frank Dorka

            How can you be sure? In over 2,000 years no one has been able to come up with a shred of proof, evidence, logic, reason or trustworthy hearsay.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Oh I’m sure, but guess what, no one has to prove that to you. God will one day 🙂

          • Frank Dorka

            Over two thousand years awaiting his imminent return? Someday ;(

          • TheBottomline4This

            Poor Frankie.
            Thinks he’s got some cute replies, don’t cha???

          • Frank Dorka

            “God will” is a cute replie. Puppies are cute as well.

          • TheBottomline4This

            He will and yes, puppies are cute 🙂

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            That is a short time compared to eternity, don’t you think?
            If you were to learn prophecy, you would see that certain things had to play out first according to God’s will. And almost everything has occured at this point. So you can complain by your human standards that two thousand years is too long to be true, but most of us do not even live to see 100, so in that case, the very next moment we open our eyes we will see Jesus, one way or the other… and that is very soon.

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            What have you actually spent time to learn to base your claim here on?
            You’re just saying that as if it’s true, but it’s not.

          • Skeptic NY

            As a Christian you’re supposed answer questions – not avoid them. But we know why Christians (and Muslims and Hindus etc) ignore questions. Answering them honestly just makes you look silly.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Oh where do you get that idea from???

          • The Last Trump

            As does trolling a Christian website.
            Just sayin.

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            Because only the bible has the power of prophecy fulfilled throughout
            history to back it up as true. These other “religions” do not.
            In
            fact following God is not a religion,religion is a man made thing… And
            because these false ones are created, it paints an idea that there is
            no right choice, since there are many, none of them could possibly be
            true.
            But if you actually learn, you would see the truth for yourself.

          • Cady555

            The odd line breaks mean copy pasty.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Okay, your point being?

        • Skeptic NY

          Which god? There are over 3,000 claimed ones.

          • TheBottomline4This

            There is only one God.
            There numerous gods.
            Ya know, I’m skeptical of skeptics.

        • Randy Wanat

          Government comes from the constitution…a document from which your deity, and all others, find themselves conspicuously absent. Have you ever actually read the constitution?

    • TheKingOfRhye

      “Well whiny Atheists, if you don’t want to go to Hams museum, don’t go.”

      Are the students at these schools being given that choice?

      (and by the way, it’s “atheists”, not “Atheists”…no capitalization needed)

      • TheBottomline4This

        Hmm, you’re worried about choice.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          And also, public schools can’t endorse a particular religion, anyway.

        • George T

          TheBottomline4This: I’m not. A school shouldn’t be teaching children any mythology as if it’s factual. If the parents of a child want to take their children, that’s their choice.

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            How can you prove that it is mythology? What actual knowledge are you basing that on?

          • George T

            AlwaysPursueTruth: The bible is a collection of sacred tales and/or fables of a culture dealing with qualities of humanity like life and death, human origins, good and evil, and god(s). That fits several definitions of a mythology.

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            I see you making that claim of saying they are sacred tales and fables, but how do you prove that is true? What knowledge are you basing your claim on that what is in the bible is not true?

          • George T

            AlwaysPursueTruth: I didn’t make a statement about them being true or not. I stated that they are tales and fables. Tales can be fact or fiction. Fables, like Jesus cursing the fig tree, are known to not be real accounts but stories meant to teach a lesson. …a fable.

      • AlwaysPursueTruth

        If you read the article you would see that they are given a choice.

        • George T

          AlwaysPursueTruth: Who’s given the choice? Parents or children?

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            I can see you’re trying very hard here to find more things to get into an argument about , since the fact
            that there is a choice given doesn’t give you the satisfaction of
            complaining if there wasn’t a choice…
            But whether the choice is to the children or parents is irrelevant.
            Children need to have permission slips to go on field trips, so the parent would have to sign off on it.
            And even in the case of a child wanting to go and a parent saying they
            can’t…. while I would think it’s sad that the child is not being
            allowed to, the parent is in charge of them and should be able to say
            whether they can go or not.

          • George T

            AlwaysPursueTruth: That’s what I wanted to know. Permission slips. It’s still a school violating the 1st amendment, but I’m glad to hear that parents were notified.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          Okay, fair enough, I guess I missed that part…..still, though, I don’t think it’s an appropriate thing for a public school field trip.

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            Well see, if you cannot even be bothered to read it fully, but go down to the comments section to start replying…then it’s obvious you are not interested in the truth, but instead more interested to only believe what you want and demean others.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I still think the schools are in the wrong here, though. Okay, attendance is voluntary, but it’s still a public school endorsing a religion.

          • Cady555

            Making a school activity “voluntary” does not cure the Constitutional violation. Public schools cannot promote religion. Period. And creationism is religion.

    • Randy Wanat

      Are you saying that the government should be free to break the law with impunity?

      • TheBottomline4This

        The gov’t or those in it do that…break the law, bend the rules.

        • Randy Wanat

          You did not answer the question. Should the government be free to break the law? It is a simple question. Either you do, or you don’t. Which is it?

    • http://www.rejectingjesus.com Acalibre

      And this applies to the kids, how? How much choice do they get about a visit to Hammy’s Land of Make Believe if their school says that’s where they’re going?

  • Mark Moore

    It seems to be very hard to get a Christian to understand that other religions and nones don’t want them proselytizing to their children. It would appear to be an easy concept but for some reason it doesn’t take.

    • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

      It seems impossible to get atheists to understand that Christians don’t want atheists proselytizing to their children, pushing their atheist myth on the public dime. It would appear to be an easy concept, but for some reason, it doesn’t take.

      • Frank Dorka

        Atheists never proselytize.

        • Rick Martin

          Of course they do. It’s called public schooling.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Yep and in the media.

          • Frank Dorka

            Hold on there, soldier. The Christians have more press than any other single group. I see it on a daily basis. No need for you to be whining.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Bull…gays, transgenders hog the media.

          • Frank Dorka

            Only in opposition to Christian hatred. If you didn’t raise a fuss it would be a non-issue. You get what you scream for.

          • TheBottomline4This

            I don’t hate anyone. You seem to though. You hate truth. You hate Christianity. You hate God.
            The practice of homosexuality and the choice to “think” you’re not the sex you were born are wrong. I know you have been taught that there isn’t a right and wrong on things and that you must go by your feelings to validate your wrong choices. Sad.

          • Frank Dorka

            I don’t hate unicorns, I don’t hate leprecahns and I don’t hate God. I tend to not hate things that do not exist.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Ya got 2 out of 3 right Frankie.

          • Frank Dorka

            Again you give no proof that unicorns or leprecahns do not exist. But I am to believe you?

          • TheBottomline4This

            No silly. You don’t have to believe me at all. Believe what you want. You will answer to God when you die, not me.

          • Skeptic NY

            Yes according to you teaching reading, writing, mathematics, literature, social studies and science is proselytizing. But teaching that the earth was made in 6 days, 6,000 years ago by a invisible Jewish Wizard is not.

          • The Last Trump

            Yes, “magic” sounds soooo much more scientific!
            Hee, hee! You atheists are a riot!
            Please enlighten us, oh wise one, on how nothing created everything with incredible complexity and unmistakable purpose and for no good reason whatsoever. Continuing to “evolve” and transform into higher and higher organisms of astronomical complexity, you know, just because.
            We’re all ears.

          • John N

            ‘.. on how nothing created everything with incredible complexity …’

            You are mistaken. This is about divine creation. And we all know that is fiction.

            Maybe you ought to read something about evolution to avoid making this silly mistakes again.

      • Tangent002

        Y’all get to run your churches tax-free. Teach your children there. Evolution is established science.

        • TheBottomline4This

          Evolution is bull. Science has it’s merits, but it also has it’s limits, which includes fallacies.

          • Tangent002

            Evolution has 150 of solid science behind it. Calling it ‘bull’ just because it goes against your Bible is nonsense.

          • Rick Martin

            Still waiting for that missing link.

          • Tangent002

            To what ‘missing link’ are you referring?

          • Skeptic NY

            Every single living thing – dead or alive – is a “missing link”. But if you understood what evolution is or if you weren’t brainwashed you wouldn’t ask such a stupid question.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Science has it’s merits, but it also has it’s limits, which includes fallacies

          • Tangent002

            You keep repeating that. What in evolution is a fallacy?

            You are using ‘it’s’ wrong, BTW.

          • TheBottomline4This

            What about evolution is truth???
            I’ll leave the it’s typo just to bug ya 🙂

          • Tangent002

            I asked you first.

          • Skeptic NY

            Evolution is an established fact as explained by the Theory of Evolution. It is the most tested & verified theory in all of science and is not in dispute. It was established as fact in the 19th century BEFORE modern genetics and molecular biology removed all hints of doubt. We don’t live in the 19th century anymore – we live in the 21st – the information age. As such, there is no excuse for willful dishonest ignorance regarding the pillar of modern biology and science.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Science has it’s merits, but it also has it’s limits, which includes fallacies.

        • Rick Martin

          Uh, no, it’s not. It is a theory yet to be proven.

          • Tangent002

            Define ‘theory’ in a scientific context.

      • Skeptic NY

        It appears you don’t understand what atheism is.

      • Rick Martin

        Nice.

  • Anton MB

    Alright kids, no excursion to Jurassic Park by demand of the Atheïst Thought Police. And are there still children who have non divorced parents? Report to the Grand Atheïst Leader immediately! You are being poisoned with family values.

    • Frank Dorka

      Jurassic park is fine with science believing atheists.

      • TheBottomline4This

        Jurassic Park is fantasy Frankie, just like your “diploma” and evolution.

        • Frank Dorka

          You believe in a supernatural being living in a fantasy place….and your “creationism”.

          • TheBottomline4This

            God will show you someday Frankie 🙂

          • Frank Dorka

            Funny you should say that. I had a triple bypass five years ago and look to be around for plenty more. Happy life. Good careers, Long marriage. Happy children. Looking forward to a comfortable retirement. Have been an atheist since my twenties and have been an outspoken militant atheist for years. If God does not like me, he is sure taking his time telling me.

          • TheBottomline4This

            I never was implying you are going to be struck down with lightening. That’s not His usual go to. God is patient. You may live to 100, who knows. Oh wait, God does.

          • Frank Dorka

            And he lets innocent children die needlessly, as well.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Oh Frankie, bringing children into the picture. Yes, children die dear. Old people die diear. All in between die dear. Death is part of life. Are you afraid of death Frankie???

          • Frank Dorka

            Not at all. I have no fear of being judged, do you?

          • TheBottomline4This

            No. That is all part of His duties.

          • Frank Dorka

            Do you Christians all get together to know what to say? I’ve heard your lines many times before.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Right back at ya. There is nothing new coming from your side Frankie…nothing new.

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            God does things in his own time, in his own way…
            Maybe one person will suffer a lot during their temporary time here, meanwhile someone else won’t…
            In the end, it’s a speck of time compared to eternity… so after it’s over, it won’t even matter what happened now, we won’t be in pain over it.
            It is the people with comfortable lives though that have the hardest time, thinking they are not in need of anything, blind to reality, satisfied with this little broken life, not even wanting anything more, thinking that what pathetic luxuries they have is the epitome of what life is supposed to be, that there can’t be anything better.
            God will not force anyone to be saved… He loves you and offers it, but will not force you to want more than this life.
            But if you’ve decided with such certainty to set your heart against God, then he can just as well decide to use you in another way, even if that means being a force against him, allowing you to continue in your negative ways to create a greater contrast…. between those who reject him, and those who accept him, and their love and light in the world.
            One choice promises death, the other promises life…
            I don’t know if I would sit so proudly of that as if you are all-knowing, and look down on others in your superior choice of death.

        • gogo0

          Jurassic Park is a movie, advertised as a movie, and watched for entertainment.

          the creationist museum is fiction, advertised as history, and they are sending kids there to be taught that dinosaurs and people lived together.

          http : // i .dailymail .co .uk/i/pix/2014/05/24/article-2638115-1E29BF6F00000578-28_634x419.jpg. uk/i/pix/2014/05/24/article-2638115-1E29BF6F00000578-28_634x419.jpg

          pure fantasy backed up by a book that is true because the book says that it is true. absolutely ludicrous

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            You think they held them as pets? 😉 😉

          • TheBottomline4This

            The Book (Bible) is true, but guess what, it’s fine you don’t believe that 🙂

    • dakdakdakdak

      Atheists have the lowest divorce rate among all denominations in the US.

      • Anton MB

        Yes just as high as Catholics and Protestants. Having a very conservative church doesn’t seem to help though. But atheists marry less however.
        When they marry they do so at a later age, that does is an example to be followed more widely in some Christian Circle’s.

        But The Grand Atheïst Leader is going to be so busy telling his/her/’other gender but certainly wholly inclusive’ followers who are married to get divorced ASAP, now all you married atheists report to the Primary Hippy Drum Circle in San Francisco to be reeducated as a decent progressive citizen!
        (The last part is satire, most atheists seem to have lost the ability to appreciate that kind of stuff when they become a militant oppressed minority only able to oppress free speech in some universities)

        • George T

          Anton MB: Look up Poe’s Law when you have a minute. There are people who sincerely post beliefs about atheist mirroring your posts.

          • Anton MB

            I’ve read about it but I cannot imagine that there are people who actually hold the opinion that there sincerely is or should be a great Atheïst Leader, Primary Hippy Drum Circle etc. I mean, should South Park have a disclaimer saying it is satire?

            I have to admit, some (and I want to underline some here) atheists are indeed so vigorously against marriage that the have become indistinguishable from a parody.

          • George T

            Anton MB: Maybe you misunderstand. To clarify, no atheists think there should be one, or several, leaders or authority figures that lead without question. There are a surprising number of theists (religious believers) who *think* that atheists follow various public figures unquestioningly. I’ve read angry posts from theists who think we’re all sheep, asserting things very similar to your original post. They accuse me and others of worshiping Richard Dawkins or other people, or make equally erroneous assumptions about my mentality or logical processes.

  • TheBottomline4This

    @charles darwin (ya big chicken)
    I don’t belong to any denomination.
    We all are governed by someone’s rules…at work, in a city, at school, while driving, etc. You will always be living with rules of some sort.
    You’re point of view is twisted and wrong.

  • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

    Their letters are weighty and forceful, but in person they are unimpressive, and their speaking amounts to nothing.

  • dakdakdakdak

    “And next, we will take your children to a Scientology-funded museum, where they will convince your children that any kind of psychiatric treatment is evil, and that their should disown their parents if they think otherwise. And this trip will be paid for by your tax dollars”

    If you have a problem with the previous paragraph, you should have a problem with the schools in the article.

    • Anton MB

      I just think that not beleving in medical treatments is of a few orders of magnitudes worse then thinking evolution didn’t happen. Just saying.

  • Gary Whiteman

    The vast majority of Christians in America have never heard of Ken Ham, yet atheists obsess over him, just as they obsess over Westboro Baptist Church, which most Christians don’t even know exists. Weird people, they obsess over Christianity yet have no grasp of what mainstream Christianity is.

    • TheBottomline4This

      Westboro Baptist “Church” is not Christian.

      • Frank Dorka

        When they count Christians, they are always included. In fact, I see no difference between YOU and the WBB. Or the KKK. Or the Mormons, Muslims, in fact, any fabtasy based hate group.

        • TheBottomline4This

          Frankie, you are starting to make me laugh, silly boy.

          • Frank Dorka

            Make YOU laugh? My pants are sopping!

        • RustySkywater

          The only hate group on this page are the homosexuals. It’s due to not having any love in your lives, hate is the only emotion.

      • George T

        TheBottomline4This: They are Christian. Some think they’re following the bible better than most other denominations/sects.

        • TheBottomline4This

          They are not Christians. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

          • George T

            TheBottomline4This: You’re running afoul of the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. They follow the Christian bible.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I lost count of how many times I’ve seen that ‘but they’re not TRUE Christians’ or something similar a long time ago. That’s one good thing about being an atheist, I guess…other atheists never tell me I’m not a ‘true atheist’ or anything like that.

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            Because a true christian will be displayed through their actions. If their actions are blatantly against what the bible says, acting hateful and condemning people to hell, which the bible says no one can do…. then yes, it’s obvious they are misguided people and it should be pointed out.
            But you will compare that to not having someone say you’re not a true atheist? Well, it doesn’t really make any sense other than you were trying to sound cute… But I don’t believe there is any standard of positive action that is required of an atheist… As long as you don’t believe in God, you can act out and be a criminal with no remorse, it wouldn’t matter… no one would care to point out that you are not following any other standards and misrepresenting the “truth” of atheism……

          • George T

            AlwaysPursueTruth: By your logic nobody is Christian. Baptists think Episcopalians aren’t adhering to the bible correctly. Same applies to Catholics, Mormons, Lutherans, and Calvinists seeing each other as not following the book correctly. They all eliminate each other.

          • AlwaysPursueTruth

            God knows who is living according to his word. And we can make certain discernments for ourselves according to his word.
            But you actually have to learn it to be able to see the difference.
            For one thing the bible specifically calls out Roman Catholics as being in opposition of the truth, and the bible says all of the denominations that follow after their ways are in the same boat. We do not know everything, but we are to use what is given, and many are choosing to ignore it.

          • George T

            AlwaysPursueTruth: Which word? The bible has quite a few errors and known forgeries and modifications made or added long after the original works. Without the original works, how can you be sure that you have the real word of the Christian god?

            There’s also the works that were left out for various reasons. Do you consider those to also be the word of the Christian god?

          • Cady555

            The Catholic church did not exist until centuries after the bibke was written. Yet the bible “specifically calls out” Roman Catholics. How precious.

          • RustySkywater

            What is a “bibke”?
            Are you just learning English?

          • gizmo23

            People make mistakes. I guess you don’t ?

          • TheBottomline4This

            So when it’s someone on your side of the opinion it’s a “mistake”, but when it’s one of us who has a typo, we need to “get educated”. smh

          • gizmo23

            I have never corrected or pointed out someones spelling error

          • BarkingDawg

            Wait. Westboro Baptists aren’t from Scotland, they are from Kansas.

            /s

      • acontraryview

        What is the basis for your statement?

        • TheBottomline4This

          Their actions, attitude and misrepresentation of the Bible. Why do you think they are Christians?

          • acontraryview

            Could you be less vague? What specific actions, attitude and misrepresentation of the Bible are you referring to?

            “Why do you think they are Christians?”

            i never said I think they are Christians.

          • TheBottomline4This

            I’m not going to list all the stupid stuff that group does. You know what those things are. They are not Christians.

          • gizmo23

            That is always the fall back when Christians do evil things

          • TheBottomline4This

            They are not Christians. Think they are if it makes you feel better.

          • gizmo23

            My point it that it is easy to convince others that you are and even persons held to high esteem in Christian circles can be deceptive. It is at our own peril that we place people and their ideals above or own. Always be wary of people that claim to speak for God or have his special blessing.
            Many people are touted to be Godly and are looked up to by Christians only to fall, then we hear “they weren’t really a Christian”

          • TheBottomline4This

            I understand what you’re saying. When I first heard of the WBC and how they are, I knew they weren’t Christian. It’s like a bank, they don’t overly expose the tellers to counterfeit money, they become so familiar with real money that when a counterfeit comes through they can spot it right away. WBC is a counterfeit.

          • Amos Moses

            And atheists fall back to……….. right ….. there is no fall back……… Except to blame christians……………. More evil has been committed by atheists than christians could ever imagine to do ……

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            As a former atheist, I must ask you how you got ahold of our playbook? 🙂

    • Jolanda Tiellemans

      just as they obsess over Westboro Baptist Church, which most Christians don’t even know exists.

      Mmhmm, then that are Christians who don’t have a TV or internet? Or never get out of their houses.

      • acontraryview

        Amish

    • JeffreyRo55

      Gays don’t care about anyone but themselves, which is why they obsess over Westboro. It’s all about them.

      • DKeane123

        Yeah and all those soldiers funerals they ruin, so the obsession isn’t some liberal gay conspiracy. Your comment is shameful.

    • tatoo

      Ken Ham is not mainstream. But the issue is that the students are being forced to be indoctrinated to a religious belief. And it is also a stupid one.

      • DKeane123

        Not mainstream, but annual attendance is 250,000 at the “museum” and he is opening an Ark Park this summer. Lots of people are exposed to his version of Christianity.

        • tatoo

          But willingly. That have a choice and that is fine. But a class trip is usually mandatory and no child wants to be left behind.

      • Amos Moses

        “And it is also a stupid one”

        In you opinion……………….

      • Gary Whiteman

        That’s your opinion, but it’s worthless, given your clear bias against normal people.

  • lisa

    I support ffrf and there effort to stop this action.
    Schools are a large influence in a child’s life.Religion or nonreligion is the parents choice.

  • sammy13

    1. This (displays) is history!
    2. The atheists are scared to death of the truth.
    3. Remaining ignorant of the Word when it is readily available to all will not help come judgement day.

    • BarkingDawg

      ” This (displays) is history!”

      To bad it’s not a display about the English language.

    • Cady555

      Take your kids there all you want. But teachers cannot use the schools to push their beliefs as true.

  • BarkingDawg

    Next time, the schools should take the kids to the local mosque.

    • gogo0

      lets also get some christian scientists to teach them the truth that medicine is against god’s plan.

      • TheBottomline4This

        Medicine may be against the god’s, but it’s not against God. Now if you misuse it, sure, but normal use, if needed, is fine.

      • Amos Moses

        Red Herring……… in fact most of what is used in hospitals today as aseptic technique is described in the bible………..5000 years before modern medicine “discovered” it…………..

  • Michael Blake

    To those objecting to this. As far as i know, none of the students/schools were forced, or are being forced to go to the Creation Museum. I haven’t seen a single report where anyone from the Creation Museum came to any school and demanded they come to the Creation Museum. Not one report where anyone from the Creation Museum held anyone at gun point demanding the schools go to the Creation Museum. Last i checked this was the United States of America, where we are all FREE to make our own decisions on field trips, without fear of repercussion, or threats. I believe the Constitution of the United States clearly states:, FREEDOM OF RELIGION is a constitutionally protected right provided in the religion clauses of the First Amendment. That is FREEDOM OF RELIGION, Not freedom from religion. The great thing about this country is you have the RIGHT to chose. What you don’t have the right to do so is silence that right either way.

    • Cady555

      Public schools are part of the government. Our shared secular government cannot be used to promote religion. Public schools cannot take children to religious events / activities.

      Each parent remains free to take their children to whatever religious event they like. But the government cannot promote religion.

      • Michael Blake

        Correct. And the public school system is not coming out saying they are endorsing Christianity. Its some schools going on a field trip to learnsomething different.

        • Jalapeno

          It kind of depends on the context of a trip.

          If it’s the only religious field trip they take, if they say that it’s ‘learning a new way to look at things’ instead of ‘this is what some people believe’…

          • Michael Blake

            Again…No one is forcing any of these schools to go to the Creation Museum. No one is forcing them to believe what the Creation Museum teaches. Its a chance to learn something different. Free will…choice…we do still have these things in this country correct?
            For anyone that doesn’t believe in Christianity, you are not forced to go. For anyone that does believe, you have a place to go, and learn more.

          • Jalapeno

            Having something that says “You don’t have to go if you don’t want to” isn’t an automatic out.

          • Michael Blake

            Isn’t the point of schools to educate? I use the word “educate” because its it important to differentiate between educate, and indoctrinate. If you don’t want to go, you are not being forced to go. I think the point that gets missed here is that we are all FREE to make a choice. Send your kids, don’t send your kids, that is your choice. Why should someone that doesn’t think this is a good idea have the right to force others not to go? Just like it isn’t a good idea to force people that don’t believe, go.
            Where is anyone being forced to go?

          • Jalapeno

            Being able to opt out of something does not automatically make everything okay.

          • Michael Blake

            Of course not. But again…it is a field trip to the creation museum. Its a chance to experience something differ, and or new for some of these kids. Its a chance to use critical thinking, and decide if it was worth the trip. If it was a trip to a Mosque, Temple, or a Shrine would it be a problem? There is nothing wrong with exposing people to different beliefs. And as far as i can tell, the State is not forcing any of these beliefs on any of these kids.

          • Jalapeno

            I would absolutely take objection to going to a Mosque, too, *depending on how it was presented*.

            As I said, if it’s part of a religion class where they are showcasing different beliefs and showing it as a ‘this is what they believe’ and ‘this is how we can be respectful’, that’s great. That would apply to the museum too.

            If it’s part of a biology class though and saying that this is another view of how biology works instead of specifying that what some people believe…

            That was my point. It depends on HOW they do it, but you just keep saying that they don’t have to go, and acting like that makes it acceptable no matter what.

          • Michael Blake

            Do you seriously think they are going to be forcing anything on these kids? And if i may ask…are you an atheist, agnostic, or against the govt. endorsing a specific religion?
            Even if they offer something to the effect that this is how we got here. It is again, just another point of view. None of these kids will be forced to believe any of it. I grew up in a very non religious house hold. While i was never taught to believe, i was taught to be respectful of others and there beliefs. Even when i went through my atheist phase of my life, i never had any issue with people that wanted to pray in public, wish me a Merry Christmas, nativity scenes, or anything else that seems to “offend” people. I never understood how something you don’t believe in is “offensive” But i’m getting off course, and apologize. I think what this comes down to is that parents need to talk to there kids, explain things, and answer questions they may have. That doesnt mean just giving blanket answers like “all religion is bad” Be fair to your kids, and do what is best for them, not you.

          • Jalapeno

            I never said they were forcing anything…I’m saying that, at least in my eyes, whether or not it’s acceptable is based heavily on how its presented.

            It’s the difference between “this is a valid view of biology” and “some people believe this, but we will be teaching the science in class”.

          • Michael Blake

            Much of science that isn’t fact is taught as fact, and people have no issue with that.
            Science: knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation.
            The Big Bang Theory is taught as fact, but it is still a theory because it wasn’t observed, and no experiments prove its validity. And this is coming from someone that loves science, and is a Christian. Yes, the 2 can coexist 🙂
            I do want to thank you for the civil discussion jalapeno, it is very much appreciated! It is also nice to be able to discuss differing views without any screaming, yelling, or insults. I hope we both can come away from this a little more educated.
            God Bless!

          • Cady555

            If the goal is a broad education, then the school should teach comparative religion, which is common in secondary schools.

            Isolating kids with monority beliefs is nasty. “Oooh non christian kids can just skip the fun field trip if their parents dont want them indoctrinated into someone else’s religious beliefs.”

            Good ole christian love.

            Fortunately, the courts have ruled repeatedly that schools cannot promote religion, and labeling something voluntary makes no difference. It is illegal.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Yet there are stories of children in some public schools learning about islam in the classroom. Not much uproar over that one.

          • Cady555

            Yes. Learning ABOUT.

            “This religion beliefs xxx. That religion believes yyy. Common christian beliefs include abc. Common jewish beliefs include def. Common hindu beliefs include ghi. Common muslim beliefs include jkl.” Comparative religions – and none are taught as the one true religion. This is legal, and necessary to a complete education.

            Taking a field trip to learn about one and only one religious view, with a clear message that that one view is true is simply illegal.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Site the law that makes it illegal.

          • Cady555

            I can cite numerous cases.

            McCollum v. Board of Education, 333 U.S. 203 (1948) – arranging for kids to be released during the school day for religious instruction is illegal. Public schools cannot aid religious instruction.

            Edwards v. Aguillard, 482 U.S. 578 (1987) – it is illegal to teach creationism in public schools.

            Kitzmiller v. Dover was not a Supreme Court case, but was a total smack down of creationism and intelligent design. Both sides presented their best guns. The transcripts and the judge’s opinion are good reading and available at the National Center for Science Eduction website. ncse . com / creationism / legal / intelligent-design-trial-kitzmiller-v-dover [remove spaces]

          • TheBottomline4This

            A case is not a law.

          • Bob Johnson

            Our entire legal system is based on case law.

          • Michael Blake

            The school isn’t teaching this, the school isn’t endorsing this religion, the school isn’t forcing this trip on anyone. Its a field trip to expose kids to something different for many of them. Its a chance to be exposed to something new. No one is being isolated. Again, its a choice to go or not to go.
            “Oooh non christian kids can just skip the fun field trip if their parents don’t want them indoctrinated into someone else’s religious beliefs.”
            isnt “Christina love”, its a choice. Something we are all blessed to have. Again…the schools are not promoting this. Its a field trip that anyone can opt out of if they wish.
            “You have the right to believe, you have the right not to believe. What you don’t have, is the right to silence that belief”

          • Cady555

            Making a Constitutional violation voluntary does not cure the Constitutional violation.

        • Cady555

          The school is communicating that christian creationist beliefs are admirable and worth learning. They do not communicate anything similar about any other religious belief. This is illegal.

          • Michael Blake

            The schools are free to have field trips to any other religious place they want to go. And no, the schools are not communicating/endorsing Christian beliefs. It’s a field trip that any child is free to not attend. I do not know of any law that states this is illegal? Please post it.

  • Josey

    It is not unconstitutional as separation of church and state was not in the constitution but was a phrase Jefferson used to understanding the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution that says: “Congress shall make no law respecting and establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise of…” It goes alone with freedom of speech but itself was not put into the U.S. Constitution and Jefferson in this letter didn’t mean it the way it is being used by these ppl today to bully and infringe upon a person’s right to exercise freedom of religion. The intent of this clause was to limit the power of the Federal Government in regard to religion thus ensuring freedom of religion in the United States of America.

    The phrase “separation of church and state” is generally traced to a January 1, 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper. Jefferson wrote, “I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.

  • Reason2012

    Google public school islam and see how they have no problem with schools taking field trips to mosques instead.
    Get active people and contact your representatives over the blatant hypocrisy.

    • TheBottomline4This

      Yep.

    • DKeane123

      I Googled “public school islam” and didn’t see much. There were a few concerns that children were being taught about Islam in social studies – a minority religion that has obviously been in the news for violent extremism. But I think that is very different than taking a school to a religious institution that purports to be a museum based in scientific fact. One is trying to broaden cultural understanding the other is attempting to usurp science’s reputation.

      • Reason2012

        My latest public school islam search:
        “Course has 7th-graders memorizing Koran verses, praying to Allah In the wake of Sept. 11, an increasing number of California public school students must …”
        Students taking trips to mosques, wearing their religious garb and more.
        And no, science is fine – it’s fish to mankind evolutionism that’s anti-science.

        • DKeane123

          I would love to see the article where schools have kids pray to Allah – would be a clear violation of church and state separation.

          • Slidellman4life

            There are pictures, which regrettably cannot be posted here.

          • DKeane123

            Copy a link or give me the correct search term. I honestly can’t believe it without verification.

          • Reason2012

            There’s no such thing as separation of church and state.

            Be that as it may, search exactly what I quoted and the article will come up every time. I saw many links to different websites that report this very thing.

          • DKeane123

            There is no such thing as separation of church and state – an assertion without evidence. Still no link in school kids forced to pray to Allah? Is that another assertion without evidence?

          • DKeane123

            And if there is no such thing as separation of church and state – then there shouldn’t be any issue with kids praying to Allah? I’m not sure you have this “reason” thing down.

          • DKeane123

            Now I see. Some children were being taught what other cultures believe and there was a freak out because the kids might realize that Christianity doesn’t have the market cornered on believing crazy stuff for bad reasons. I understand now, don’t let those kids get and education, they might just learn about stuff that isn’t right in front of their nose.

  • Tree L. Bolling

    I wonder how much of a stink the Xtians would be raising if the schools took the students to a Islamic mosque “museum” OH yeah!!!!

    • Jeff Jankowiak

      That would pass for deep thought in a bar full of drunks.

  • tatoo

    I thought public schools were supposed to educate children with the truth. Why do these schools want their students to remain ignorant? If I were a parent of one of these kids, I would holler bloody murder. Glad I do not live in Kentucky.

    • Amos Moses

      “I thought public schools were supposed to educate children with the truth.”

      And what “truth” would that be, to your mind……………..

      • Charles

        Well.. Let’s see.. Homosexuality is normal, men and woman who dress as the opposite sex is normal.. Islam is a religion of peace.. Life on this planet started from a single cell.. ha ha.. Amazing what they make up as “Truth”…

    • Gary Whiteman

      Kentucky is also glad – very.

    • Oshtur

      Lesbians cannot have children, so their opinions on children are worthless.

  • Slidellman4life

    And here we are again, with the Freedom From Religion Foundation getting mad because some kids were taken to a Christian museum while maintaining absolute silence as Islam is being taught outright in public schools.

    The school district’s response should consist only of three words. Nothing more, nothing less in word usage, content or intent:

    “Go to hell.”

    • Tangent002

      Where is Islam being taught in public schools?

      • Slidellman4life

        Georgia, California, Tennessee, for starters.

        • Tangent002

          Do you have a link? I’ve heard of schools teaching about Islam, but I haven’t heard of any schools teaching Islam itself.

          • Slidellman4life

            I’ve heard of schools teaching about Islam, but I haven’t heard of any schools teaching Islam itself.

            “Lawsuit: Public school forced my child to convert to Islam”

            http://

            http://www.foxnews

            .com/opinion/2016/01/29

            /lawsuit-public-school-forced-my-child-to-convert-to-islam.html

            “Teaching about Islam stirs anger, change in Georgia schools”

            http://www.

            ajc.

            com

            /news/news/local-education/teaching-about-islam-stirs-anger-change-in-georgia/nntzY/

            “Parents gather to question Islam being taught in Tenn. public schools”

            http://wkrn

            .com/2015/10/05/

            parents-gather-to-question-islam-being-taught-in-tenn-public-schools/

            That’s just three, linked due to time constraints. There are more out there.

  • Harry Oh!

    I bet if the students were taken to a strip club and given a twerking demonstration there would be congratulatory messages splashed all over the internet. But take them to a place that might provoke some actual thought on the origins of life and boom! That crosses the line. But sadly, the only reason this lunatic fringe has been allowed to grow mainstream is because weak-willed people have let them do it.

  • ComeOnPeople!

    Amazing atheist oppose students visiting a creation museum but didn’t utter a word at students being taken to a mosque. Hmmmm

  • Elie Challita

    I wonder how many people supporting this trip would also support these kids going to an Islamic madrasa and being told that everything in the Koran is true.

    • Amos Moses

      Yeah, freedom FROM religion is far more important……………………unfortunately not a constitutional protection for that………..

      • Elie Challita

        If you are in favor of freedom of religion, do you support public schools teaching that the Koran is true? What about the Bhagavad Gita?

        • Amos Moses

          That is not freedom from religion…………….. is it? But to be honest………. absence of the christian religion ………. anywhere…….. is just satanism and paganism ……….. and IS religion also………….. So it comes down to……….. Which God or god are you going to serve………… because sure as shootin’………… you are going to serve either God or the devil…….. and teach others to do so……………… it matters not if you acknowledge their existence…….

          “Atheism is [the inmate’s] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being,” the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

          • Elie Challita

            Bud, that’s your problem right there: You’d defined the entire world as being either Christian, or satanic. You don’t even believe in the existence of unbelievers, nor are you willing to even consider the possibility of any belief system other than yours being right.

            That’s why you cannot even understand what secularism or freedom from religion even means: You see the entire world solely through a religious lens. At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised to find you in a supermarket trying to decide which potatoes were divine and which ones harbor demons.

          • Amos Moses

            “Bud, that’s your problem right there: You’d defined the entire world as being either Christian, or satanic.”

            It is what it is…………………………. satan does not care who you worship….. even if your worship is unbelief……. just so long as you do not worship the true God………. have fun with that…………..

            “That’s why you cannot even understand what secularism or freedom from religion even means:”

            It means that officious bloviators…… who do not believe ……….. want to make sure that no one worships……… just as they do…….. or do not…..

          • Elie Challita

            I wonder, is overdosing on redundant punctuation marks also a sign of holiness?

          • Amos Moses

            Wonder……….. So more bloviating…………..

          • Elie Challita

            So do tell: do you have any reply to my original topic that isn’t “My god good, all others bad”?

          • Amos Moses

            You picked up on the truth………… good one……. any one can do………. even a pagan……..

  • peanut butter

    These atheists need to STOP trying to save the world from God and Christianity. If they have kids who are slated to go on one of these class trips, it is their right to keep them home that day. But they don’t have the right to keep every child from going to this museum. They are overstepping their bounds in this. If you don’t want us to use our first amendment rights, be an example by using yours… within your home, not trying to force your atheism on all of us, as you accuse the Christians of doing. You are violating our rights to try and force yours. Nobody said your kids HAD to go. That choice is up to you. But since you don’t believe in the scripture, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, or apparently the adage with the same message, “Live and let live”, I guess you will continue to violate others.