Over 100 United Methodist Clergy Come Out as Homosexual in Effort to Obtain Acceptance

UMC Background-compressedOver 100 United Methodist clergy came out as homosexual or transgender this week in a letter publicly addressed to the denomination in an effort to draw attention to the issue ahead of the General Conference and to seek acceptance despite policies that prohibit practicing homosexuals from serving in the ministry.

“[W]hile we have sought to remain faithful to our call and covenant, you have not always remained faithful to us,” the letter, released by Reconciling Ministries Network, asserts.

“While you have welcomed us as pastors, youth leaders, district superintendents, bishops, professors, missionaries and other forms of religious service, you have required that we not bring our full selves to ministry, that we hide from view our sexual orientations and gender identities,” it says.

As previously reported, the United Methodist Book of Discipline outlines that “the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching” and that “self-avowed practicing homosexuals” may not be ordained as ministers in the denomination.

“While persons set apart by the Church for ordained ministry are subject to all the frailties of the human condition and the pressures of society, they are required to maintain the highest standards of holy living in the world,” the book reads.

In the letter posted on Monday, the 111 signees state that they wish to remain in the United Methodist denomination despite prohibitions against homosexual behavior and that they desire to “create a pathway of hope into ministry” for non-celibate homosexual youth who want to serve in leadership capacities.

“LGBTQI people and their families exist in every church in every continent of this denomination. They are seeking to remain in faithful relationship with you, even when you refuse, because they know God’s tender mercies and great faithfulness,” the correspondence reads.

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Signees of the letter include Brian Adkins of the Open Door United Methodist Church in Richmond, California; Bonnie Beckonchrist of Berry United Methodist Church in Chicago, Illinois; Alex da Silva-Souto of New Milford United Methodist Church in New Milford, Connecticut; Christine Lindeberg of Pleasant Valley United Methodist Church in Pleasant Valley, New York; Wendy Woodworth of Morningside United Methodist Church in Salem, Oregon; and Jarell Wilson of Argyle United Methodist Church in Argyle, Texas.

On Thursday, over 500 homosexual and transgender clergy spanning various denominations signed a separate letter expressing support for the United Methodist leaders who came out in their correspondence.

“Those of you who came out in Monday’s letter, and those who have come before you, and those who are still not able to live out your sexual and gender identities openly: we see you and we support you and we are surrounding you with love,” it reads.

Signees include Dr. Kyle Walker of Faith Presbyterian Church in Austin, Texas; Dr. Mark Johnston of the First Christian Church of Des Moines, Iowa; Guy Johnson of Keysville Grace United Church of Christ in Keymar, Maryland; Erica Baron of the Unitarian Universalist Congregation of the Catksills in Kingston, New York; Thomas Discavage of St. James Church in Los Angeles, California; and Jennifer Sanborn of Enfield American Baptist Church in Enfield, Connecticut.

Not all United Methodist clergy and ministry leaders support homosexual behavior. In an article entitled “Why Many Methodists Still Oppose Same-Sex Marriage,” John Lemperis, the Director of the UM Action program of the Institute on Religion and Democracy, said that the Bible is crystal clear on the matter.

“Even liberal Biblical scholars now agree that the Old and New Testaments are very clear in their moral disapproval of homosexual practice,” he wrote. “More fundamentally, Scripture paints a beautiful picture of marriage as a holy covenant of intensely intimate, self-giving community between man and woman, uniting the two most basic, equal categories of humanity.”

“We submit to Jesus as Lord,” Lemperis stated. “If He is truly Lord, then no area of our lives can be off-limits to Him. Jesus spoke strongly about the centrality of self-denial in following Him, which often means dramatic personal sacrifices, including not acting on powerful desires for things outside of God’s best for us. … Jesus and new life in Him are more than worth it.”


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  • TheBottomline4This

    No big deal. United Methodist aren’t Christians anyways. There could be some new Christians in that religion…if they are true Christians the Lord will show them this religion’s errors and they will leave.
    Matthew 7 v13&14 says…Enter through the narrow gate. The gate is wide and the road is wide that leads to hell, and MANY people enter through that gate. But the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to TRUE life. Only a FEW people find that road. (NASB)

    • Ronald Carter

      What kind of unbridled hate is this? That’s called the No True Scotsman fallacy. It’s when you define Christianity according to your rules. Guess what, there are over 35,000 Christian denominations, and they probably disagree with yours as much as you disagree with theirs. Doesn’t make anyone more or less Christian.

      • TheBottomline4This

        “there are over 35,000 [c]hristian denominations”
        That is fine, but there is only one true path to Heaven.

        • Ronald Carter

          And you chose it?

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            U choose to not die-in-Christ or to die-in-Christ. Then God will choose those who had truly died-in-Christ.
            …….The Word of God very plainly says that unrepentant LGBTQs n other unrepentant sinners/evildoers/law-breakers will not be in the kingdom of God/heaven bc the HOLY God will not tolerate their “dirty n smelly” presence in His home/heaven, eg 1COR.6:9-11, REV.22:12-15.

            Bear in mind of what ACTS.15:24-29 says to Gentile Christians, ie only Jewish Christians r required by God to keep all 613 of God’s/ /Moses Law bc it will be not a burden to them.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Lev. 22:24 Ye shall have ONE manner of law, AS WELL for the STRANGER, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.

            Ex. 12: 43 And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof: But every man’s servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof. A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof. In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof. All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. ONE law shall be to him that is HOMEBORN AND unto the STRANGER that sojourneth among you.

            Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy STRANGER that is within thy gates:

            Numbers 15:16 – ONE law and one manner shall be for you, AND FOR the STRANGER that sojourneth with you.

            This is just a few…

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            EXO.12:43 was circa 1400 BC n Moses Law reigned in the nation of Judah/Israel. Any foreigner or Gentile or non-Jew who wanted to reside permanently in Judah/Israel had to obey Moses Law also.
            …….This is no different than USA requiring all foreign immigrants with green-cards/PR(= permanent residency) to obey US Law.
            …….”When in Rome, do what the Romans do.”

            In the kingdom of heaven/God, wrt salvation, the legal/Law requirement is different for Jewish Christians n Gentile Christians(ACTS.15:28-29) bc Jesus Christ’s kingdom is not of this world.(JOHN.18:36)

          • acontraryview

            “the legal/Law requirement is different for Jewish Christians n Gentile Christians”

            How can it be different is there is only one true way to salvation and one true word of god?

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            What is the one true way to salvation.?

          • acontraryview

            I cannot say with certainty. I cannot say with certainty that there is anything after death. I personally believe there is. But it is a matter of faith as it is with all people.

            I’ll ask again: How can it be different is there is only one true way to salvation and one true word of god?

          • Bluezlover

            because the jews are the chosen people, the ones that did not believe were cut off and now can be pruned back in, Between that, the Gentiles were pruned into the branches of the tree.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            God is not a respecter of persons. If we were to adopt a child, that child would become part of the family and need to be obedient to the rules of the house just as much as our natural born children . Gentiles after the death and resurrection of the Messiah were grafted into Israel if they believed in the God of Israel and served HIM alone. The bible clearly states that those gentiles who choose to believe in Israel’s Messiah & become a part of the common wealth of Israel … that they just like the natural branches can be cut off. Just like if I adopted children, should they choose to not walk in the ways we have set out for this household, they just like our natural born children would be corrected and eventually if they continue to be disobedient they would be told they could not remain in the house. In the end the enemy of God will go after one group of people… Those who KEEP the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. God is one and HIS people are one body. Who is a jew? He who is one inwardly. God’s people are always those who walk in HIS ways. At Mount Sinai … written in stone but in the new covenant , HIS laws written on the heart. Their has never been a problem with God’s instructions, the problem was with men and because of mans heart condition, God came down and redeemed them unto HIMself. He sent back HIS Spirit and preformed heart surgery. Now if men believe in HIM, HE works in them to become the sons of God. God’s people are simply those who believe in HIM and serve HIM according to HIS instructions.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            JOHN.15 says the True Vine is Jesus Christ, n not the Jews of Israel. Israel was only the branches, but they got chopped off bc they did not bear the fruit of the kingdom of heaven.
            ……. Gentiles were of another vine-tree that was wild or lawless(= no Moses Law). They were grafted as branches to the True Vine, n not to the branches of Israel which had already been chopped off by God.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Yes we as gentiles were grafted into Israel and if the true branches believe God is able to graft them back into their own tree. This is why we as gentiles are not to boast because they were blinded for our sake. One day the scales will fall from there eyes and they will be crafted back in.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            According to JOHN.8:58/EXO.3:14, Jesus Christ was also the God of Abraham n Moses, who gave the Law to the Jews.
            …….The tree of Israel n the Jews has already been chopped down by God bc it could not bear much fruit of salvation thru the works of the Law, n replaced by the tree/vine of Jesus Christ that could bear the fruit of salvation thru faith. That was why JC cursed the fig tree to death.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Oh my if you believe that God replaced HIS people with a new crowd you are deceived and believe the lie of replacement theology written long ago by men who were known antisemites. God never changes and He said those who keep HIS ways are HIS people. Jews or gentiles. Even when he gave the law HE said there is one law for the native born and for the sojourner and strangers among them. He is not a respecter of persons and came not to do away with a people or HIS laws but to be the sacrifice for men because sin brings death and to send back HIS Spirit transform mens hearts. The new covenant was prophesied in the scriptures and it was that God would put HIS spirit in man and cause HIM to walk in HIS ways. He said HE would write HIS law upon their hearts. On the day of pentecost all those who received the Holy Ghost were in fact jews from all over the Diaspora . They received the outpouring first and then the gentiles received it also later as was prophesied . The Olive tree is not cut down but the natural branches which deny that their Messiah has come are cut off and any gentiles who believe in the God of Israel and the work of the Messiah are grafted in. The bible says that one day the scales will fall from the nature branches eyes and they will be grafted back into the olive tree. It also warns gentiles not to be boastful because they to can be cut off and it reminds them that Jews were blinded for their sake so that they might be grafted in.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            U must differentiate between the few Jews who became Christians or followed Christ/Messiah(= Jewish Christians or Messianic Jews) n the many Jews who did not become Christians n remained as Jews who followed Moses n not Jesus. These Jews also died as Jews, n not as Christians or not in-Christ.
            …….These Jews who rejected Jesus as their Christ/Messiah hv been cut off from the kingdom of heaven/God or will not be saved from hell, although they may still be blessed by God with a good n long life on earth for following Moses Law.
            …….The new tree/Vine of Jesus Christ leads to eternal life in heaven or salvation. The old tree of Israel n the Jews does not lead to eternal life, n is spiritually dead, wrt salvation. See the difference.?

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            Yr post seems to hv been removed/deleted.

            U do realize that after the 1st Advent of Jesus Christ to earth in 33 AD, that the Jews could no longer be saved from hell by just believing in God n keeping Moses Law, eg did not commit murder, adultery, stealing, perjury/lying/cheating, etc, ie no more salvation thru the works of the Law. They needed to also believe in JC in order to be saved.(cf: MATT.5:27-30)
            ……. B4 that, yes. (LUKE.16:19-31, 1PET.3:19 & 4:6) Hence, beggar Lazarus, Moses, Elijah n other OT figures r bound for heaven.(MATT.17:2-3 & 27:52-53)

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Wow wonder why my post was removed. Please read Romans 1. No one was ever saved by keeping the law. The only way man could be saved (because SIN is the transgress the law ) is via blood. Without blood there is NO remission for sin. Jews were redeemed via the blood of sacrifices but God had a better sacrifice. Jesus became the perfect sacrifice and now all men must trust in HIS blood for remission of SIN. NO Jew believed that the law saved them. They all knew that if they SINNED they must bring a blood sacrifice to be redeemed back to GOD. After Jesus’s blood was shed for all mankind the temple was destroyed . The only blood offered for remission of sins is the blood of the redeemer. We who believe that HIS blood is able to redeem have a commission teach this to all men because ALL men sin and all men must apply this blood or be condemned to death.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            True. Agree. That was why Jesus Christ went to preach to Abraham, Moses, Elijah, beggar Lazarus n other OT prophets/saints, in order to save them from hell.(1PET.3:19 & 4:6)
            ……. The evil/sinful rich man of LUKE.16:19-31 did not hv this opportunity to be saved from hell bc he had unrepentantly broken the Law at DEUT.15:11, ie by refusing to perform charity during the Sabbath Year.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            BTW it most was deleted because someone flagged it as spam. Yeh in this world Gods word is spam.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            My posts also get deleted on occasions. Most homo-atheists hate ROM.1 n so should be the ones who had flagged yr post as spam.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            The Messiah was a JEW and all the Apostles also. Jesus said HE came for the lost sheep of Israel and HE would not allow the disciples to go to the gentiles until after HIS death. According to history the first Christians both Jews and Gentiles met in synagogs and in their homes, kept sabbath , kept the feast days and other laws up until the councils of Nicea, when laws that were passed made it unlawful for them to do so under penalty of death or imprisonment. Jews and Gentiles are one in Messiah and without the Torah and the promised Messiah … gentiles would not even know the God of Abraham , Issac and Jacob. It was a corrupt church that put a separation between us not GOD.

            Romans 11 … I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

            What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the REST WERE BLINDED. (According as it is written, God HATH GIVEN them the SPIRIT OF SLUMBER, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they MAY NOT SEE, and bow down their back alway.

            I say then, Have they STUMBLED THAT THEY SHOULD FALL? God forbid: BUT RATHER THROUGH THIER FALL SALVATION IS COME UNTO THE GENTILES, FOR to PROVOKE THEM to JEALOUSY. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; HOW MUCH MORE THEIR FULLNESS? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may PROVOKE TO EMULATE them which ARE MY FLESH, and might SAVE SOME OF THEM. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? For if the FIRSTFRUIT be holy, the LUMP is also holy: and if the ROOT be holy, so are the BRANCHES.

            And if SOME OF the branches be broken off, and thou, being a WILD olive tree, wert GRAFTED IN AMONG THEM, and WITH THEM PARTAKERS of the ROOT and fatness of the olive tree; BOAST NOT against the branches. But IF THOU BOAST, THOU BEAREST NOT THE ROOT , BUT THE ROOT THEE. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF THEY WERE BROKEN OFF, and THOU STANDETH BY FAITH. BE NOT HIGH-MINDED BUT FEAR: For if God spared not the NATURAL BRANCHES, take heed lest HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also SHALT BE CUT OFF. And they also, IF THEY ABIDE STILL NOT IN UNBELIEF, SHALL BE GRAFTED BACK IN: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree WHICH IS WILD by nature, and wert GRAFTED CONTRARY to nature into a GOOD OLIVE TREE: HOW MUCH MORE shall these, which be the NATURAL BRANCHES, be graffed into THEIR OWN TREE? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that BLINDNESS IN PART is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away THEIR SINS.

            As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the ELECTION, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. FOR AS YEA IN TIMES PAST HAVE NOT BELIEVED GOD, yet HAVE NOW OBTAINED MERCY THROUGH THEIR UNBELIEF: Even so have these also now not believed, THAT THREW YOUR MERCY THEY ALSO MAY OBTAIN MERCY. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, THAT HE MIGHT HAVE MERCY UPON ALL.

          • The Last Trump

            Yes, it’s impossible to miss.
            They ALL point to the same Son of God.
            He’s in the same Bible each denomination holds as the infallible Word of God. Seriously dude. Where have you been? Under a rock somewhere?
            Thought you were some kind of Bible scholar…. 😉

          • Ronald Carter

            What if he is a Jehovah’s Witness? Eagerly awaiting your reply to this but will give you ample time to pull your foot out of your mouth…

          • acontraryview

            “He’s in the same Bible each denomination holds as the infallible Word of God. ”

            If the words in the Bible are infallible, then why is it the different sects of Christianity aren’t in agreement regarding the totality of what is moral and what is not, and what is sinful and what is not?

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Deception is just that deception . I’d say the spirits of darkness are doing a great job. The bible says that before this thing wraps up God will have to shorten the days least the very elect fall away. I’d say that only those who dig in and hold on will not fall prey to deception. This world is doing exactly what the bible says they will do. They are calling what is good , evil and what is evil, good. It also says that they will kill those who are the people of God thinking they are doing God a favor. So none of this is a surprise but it should cause us all to fall on our faces and stop playing the part as if our Creator cannot see.

          • acontraryview

            You do realize that such claims have been made since the Bible was written, correct? The apostles were quite certain that Jesus was going to return in their lifetime.

        • ComeOnPeople!

          I do not have to chose any religion. Gods word defines who are HIS and who only have a form of Godliness but deny HIS power. It’s not about religion but about a relationship to the God of the bible. If a person has a relationship with God then they will not practice sin or agree with it. They will stick out like a sore thumb. They will not fit into the one world religion that is forming as we sit here typing. Sects of religions that agree with or accept something that God calls sin are a dead giveaway that they are not God’s children. They preach to people who have itchy ears and give them what they want to hear. The Devil in the end goes after the true bride of Christ and that bride is described in Revelations 12 :17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which KEEP the commandments of God, and have the TESTIMONY of Jesus Christ. Also in Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the SAINTS: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and the FAITH of Jesus.

          Jesus said if you LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

          I’m of no named religion. I study the word of God and serve HIM in Spirit and in Truth. Most religions are mere daughters of the Roman Catholic Church and still practice a lot of what she taught them. It is a mixer of both God’s instructions and paganism & a HOLY GOD will never accept a mixture in worship. HE is a jealous GOD and shares HIS bride with no one.

          Not only are we the bride but we also live in HIS kingdom and HE alone is the KING of that kingdom. Just like in the USA if you are a citizen of the USA you must follow the laws of the land so to as a citizen in God’s Kingdom you must follow HIS laws, instructions and HIS headship.

          It’s sad that 2,000 years of error have left people so confused as to what is true and how to live. Forget religion! Pick up your citizenship manual and study it and become a citizen of HIS KINGDOM .

          • Josey

            amen ComeOnPeople, amen.
            Jesus is the Truth, the Life and the Only Way to Heaven. Seek ye the Lord while He may be found and to those who don’t understand what God’s word says, you need to be born again first which is recognizing first that Jesus Christ gave His life for you, He took your sin upon Himself so you could be free from it’s bondange and be Holy as God is Holy because of Jesus and not of yourself and then ask God to forgive you for your sins and ask Jesus to come into your heart and change you and He will do so and God will seal you with the Holy Spirit who will teach you and your eyes will be open and His word will be alive unto you. For the unsaved cannot receive the things of God, they are earthly minded.

          • Chrissy Vee

            Amen!

          • acontraryview

            “Sects of religions that agree with or accept something that God calls sin are a dead giveaway that they are not God’s children.”

            The different sects of Christianity are unable to come to agreement on the totality of what is sinful and what is not. Some believe it is a sin to drink alcohol. Others do not. Some believe it is a sin to gamble. Others do not. Some believe it is a sin to use contraceptives. Others do not. Some believe it is a sin to use electricity. Others do not.

            So, which one is correct regarding the things that “God calls sins”?

            “Jesus said if you LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.”

            What commandments did Jesus, himself, give regarding homosexuality?

            “HE is a jealous GOD ”

            Jealousy is a petty emotion. Certainly not befitting a supreme being.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            The law/commandment against homosexuality at LEV.18:22-23 was given by Jesus Christ who was God-in-the-flesh, …….as claimed by Jesus at JOHN.8:58( n EXO.3:14) by saying that He was the “I AM WHO I AM’ or Yahweh/Jehovah. That was why the Jews wanted to stone Him to death for “blasphemily” claiming to be God.
            …….JOHN.1:1-2 n HEB.13:8 also say that JC was God, is God n will be God forever n ever.

          • Bob Johnson

            So then do all of the laws of the Old Testament apply to Christians?

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            Moses/ /God’s Law applies to Christians, either fully or partially.

            At ACTS.15:24-29, God/Jesus has exempted Gentile Christians from the laws of Moses/ /God which r a burden to them, eg circumcision, kosher foods, etc.
            ……. In comparison, the early Jewish Christians kept all 613 laws of Moses bc it was not a burden to them. Today, US Messianic Jews or Jewish Christians should try their best to keep most of Moses/ /God’s Law, as long as they r not a burden to them, eg circumcision, kosher foods, etc.

            Why.? Bc for Gentile Christians, who had led quite lawless lives b4 their conversion, eternal life in heaven thru Jesus is much more important that a good n long life on earth thru Moses.
            ……. Eg, there is no need for a new Gentile Christian who is addicted to caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, drugs, prescription pills, etc to go cold turkey n risk suffering worse health/mental complications, eg Delirium Tremens for alcoholics. Psychotropic-drug addicted people usually do not live very long but if they r Christians, they will be saved from hell when they die, as per the Word of God.(cf: 1COR.5:5)

          • Bob Johnson

            You should get the Gold Medal in mental gymnastics.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            Well, there is a shorter answer. Jewish Christians r circumcised, but new Gentile Christian adults r mostly not circumcised.

          • acontraryview

            When did that start?

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            When Abraham n the Semites started getting circumcised as commanded by God while the heathen/uncivilized non-Semites or Gentiles remained uncircumcised.n very horny.

          • acontraryview

            Just a deal, huh? No wonder so many people signed on.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            The laws of God are not hard. Some laws are only to the Levitical Priesthood , others only while in the land of Israel, some only apply if there is a temple in place, some only for women , others only for men but the basics are easy to keep if you love the Lord & have His Spirit. The problem was never God’s ways but mans heart condition.

          • acontraryview

            So you are basically saying that you get to interpret the inerrant, literal word of God as you choose. Well that’s convenient, huh?

          • Bluezlover

            No, we are under grace, but what one do you think it is ok to break and practice in sin that would be acceptable without repenting and stopping it with God’s spirit?

          • Bob Johnson

            Well, considering the number of cheeseburgers sold every day by McDonald, Burger King, etc. I think Heaven is going to be a lot less populated than most people believe.

          • acontraryview

            Yes, well if he claimed to be God then obviously he was.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            Well, did u not ask, “What commandments did Jesus, himself, give regarding homosexuality?”.?

          • acontraryview

            Those things that you wrote were not quotes attributed to Jesus.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            To most Christians, the Old Testament commands/laws r quotes from Jesus Christ bc Jesus was the “I AM WHO I AM” of EXO.3:14 n is their Lord n their God. That is how they will address JC when they meet Him in person.
            JOHN.20:28 = 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

          • acontraryview

            There is no way they were quotes from Jesus because Jesus was not alive then.

          • Bluezlover

            Read John, it explains that Jesus always was in spirit before being made in the flesh. John 1New King James Version (NKJV)

            The Eternal Word

            1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Some sins are black and white in the bible so that even a child can understand which things please God and which things do not. The things that no one can know for sure … which are few … are not for anyone to declare a sin or not. Sin is simple transgressing the laws of God. If it is not written in the word of God then we cannot declare it a sin . Say like drinking alcohol … The bible does not say not to drink wine but to not become drunk or drink in excess … SO if I were to say a person was sinning who was merely drinking a glass of wine, then I would be like most organized religions , who make things up to suit their cause.

            Jesus was the WORD of GOD made flesh. When HE said KEEP MY COMMANDMENT HE was speaking of HIS commandments . HE himself kept the law of God perfectly.

            You do not understand jealousy in the manner I’m speaking of. If a good husband says he is jealousy for his bride… he is merely saying that he cherishes her and the vows they made to be faithful one to the other. No relationship is okay with unfaithfulness. It’s not the petty kind of jealousy that the world and teenagers play with that causes a person to think their partner is looking at someone else every time they blink an eye.

          • acontraryview

            “Sin is simple transgressing the laws of God. If it is not written in the word of God then we cannot declare it a sin .”

            So then you are saying that those sects that declare things sins that you do not believe are sins, are wrong and false Christians, correct? And, of course, they would say the same about you. So which is correct? I want to know so I’ll know which sect of Christianity is correct and thus be able to know that all others are false.

            “who make things up to suit their cause.”

            So then Southern Baptists and Mormons are not real Christians? They are just doing something that suits “their cause”? What cause would that be

            “If a good husband says he is jealousy for his bride”

            How would jealousy be related to cherishing her and the vows they made to be faithful to one another? Jealousy is petty. Period. I have no desire to follow a God who exhibits such a trait.

          • Bluezlover

            It is not a label of man made doctrine or belief it is to be born again, that is the only way.

          • Bluezlover

            Duh, jealous that you would worship and serve satan and his religions of the world.

      • ComeOnPeople!

        Religion does not define who a child of God is. God’s word defines who God’s children are.

        • Ronald Carter

          That’s right, and there are over 35,000 denominations of Christianity who insist they have the correct understanding of what God’s word is, so which one is right?

          • The Last Trump

            That’s easy silly!
            All of them.
            All of them agree that the Bible represents the Word of God and Jesus is the one, the only, way to salvation.
            Imagine! Over 35 000 witnesses all testifying in total agreement to the truth you reject and despise with every fibre of your being.
            And sure enough, they ALL correctly view homosexuality as the clear abomination Jesus described it as.
            And YOU keep bringing THEM up!?
            Hee, hee! Priceless.

          • Ronald Carter

            All 35,000 are right? Really, Last Trump? Are you SURE about that? All of them at war with each other, calling each other false religions, calling each other apostate…and MANY of them absolutely OK with homosexuality. What about infant baptism? That about the trinity? What about the rapture? What about confession of sins? What about the sabbath?

            “The truth I reject and despise with every fibre of my being” – now Last Trump, what have you been told about making things up? I never said any of that, you pulled it from your imagination.

            This might be your silliest message yet.

          • acontraryview

            “All of them.”

            If they have different views upon the totality of the teachings of the Bible, how can they all be the one truth? The totality of their beliefs are not the same. They each claim to be correct in their interpretation of Scripture and maintain that other sects of Christianity are incorrect. So, which do you believe is the correct sect?

            “All of them agree that the Bible represents the Word of God and Jesus is the one, the only, way to salvation.”

            That they share certain aspects of agreement is immaterial to the question. it would be like saying people in Group A like TV and people in group B like TV. Therefore they all agree on what shows are best. Try again, muffin.

            “And sure enough, they ALL correctly view homosexuality as the clear abomination Jesus described it as.”

            Actually, no, they don’t.

          • Bluezlover

            The born again ones.

          • Ronald Carter

            In other words, all of them, then.

    • Toro Keng

      Well…. Agree and disagree.
      ”No big deal” sounds like you don’t care at all…. don’t forget, if they are not saved, they are still sinners, and that should concerns all true Christians, to show them the correct doctrines. Even though it is prophesied that many will be lost, but we still have the responsibility to do our part.
      errrmmmm…..NASB……. haha……… #onlyKJV

      • TheBottomline4This

        Don’t assume.
        You have missed the point.

      • Chrissy Vee

        KJV ♥

    • Bob Johnson

      Ah, the No True Scotsman Fallacy. You can toss out the United Methodists, Mormons, Catholics, and Episcopalians. Who’s left?

      • Bluezlover

        The born again.

    • Josey

      There is only one body in Christ saved and washed clean in His blood, denominations are separations in the body of Christ, there is only one blood bought church. There will not be denominations in Heaven and there should not be any now. I never understood the ungodly fights among different denominations. This is an example, many years ago I went to a church and because of the military we had to move about twenty miles from that church so I needed to find one closer in which I did, one day my neighbor asked if I would host a tupperware party for her so I said yes and when I called the pastors wife of the church I went to in the beginning and invited her, she yelled at me on the phone, “I can have nothing more to do with you because you attend a different church now, that was your choice!” and she slammed the phone down. I was crushed being a babe in Christ, I wasn’t raised in church, didn’t know a thing about politics in church, I just loved Jesus with all of my heart and loved the body of Christ, I had no idea ppl felt that way, I just thought if you are in the body of Christ you don’t lose a sister in the Lord just because you began to attend a different church and keep in mind both churches believed in salvation through faith in Christ alone so it wasn’t like I went off and joined some cult.

    • LadyDocent

      I’m so very thankful that God is my Judge and not TheBottomline4This. Are you aware, TheBottomline4This, that Jesus Christ has admonished us to take care how we judge others and has laid out for us the seriousness of not obeying Him in that command? With His admonition in mind, and after reading the words you have written in your comment, I believe I can rightfully say that you have just made a serious judgment against an entire Christian denomination and hundreds of thousands of people you have never met and do not know.

    • LadyDocent

      I’m so very thankful that God is my Judge and not TheBottomline4This.
      Are you aware, TheBottomline4This, that Jesus Christ has admonished us
      to take care how we judge others and has laid out for us the seriousness
      of not obeying Him in that command? With His admonition in mind, and
      after reading the words you have written in your comment, I believe I
      can rightfully say that you have just made a serious judgment against an
      entire Christian denomination and hundreds of thousands of people you
      have never met and do not know.

  • Amos Moses

    And in seeking “relevance” to the world…….. they became not…………

  • Amos Moses

    Benny Hinn Miraculously Removes Lump From Woman’s Purse

    ALISO VIEJO, CA—According to several eyewitness reports coming out of Benny Hinn’s “This Is Your Day” revival event Tuesday, the faith healer and televangelist performed yet another miraculous healing, this time instantly and completely removing a large growth from an attendee’s purse.

    Hinn reportedly paused during the service, sensing the Spirit’s call to interrupt his Bible-based teaching to walk into the crowd and speak with a woman in the third row.

    “I sense… I sense you have swelling, somewhere… somewhere in your—your purse? It’s your purse, my dear lady, isn’t it?” Hinn intoned, squinting his eyes as he drew on his powerful connection with God’s Holy Spirit to help relieve this woman of her hindrance.

    The woman reportedly burst into tears, nodding, “Yes, yes… yes I have a heavy burden. I have a bulge in my purse, yes!”

    “Praise the Lord!” she cried, as the faithful around her raised their arms in worship.

    Hinn led the woman to the stage and, according to several credible sources, instantly found the spot containing the lump, and miraculously eliminated it in Jesus’ name. Though he has no medical training, witnesses say he performed the highly technical maneuver as though he’d been doing it for decades. The woman continued to sob, and thanked Hinn for blessing her with his undeniable anointing. Hinn then reportedly knocked her onto the ground with his suit coat, to the glory of God.

    According to Benny Hinn Ministries, Hinn will perform an encore healing session in the city sometime next month, where the man of God promises to remove even more lumps from wallets, purses, pockets, and bank accounts, once he gets back from the Bahamas.

  • ComeOnPeople!

    A person who serves God according to HIS word and is Christ – like is a Christian… a person who practices and remains in SIN is a sinner who is not Christ-like and therefore not a Christian. You shall know them by their fruits. If their fruit is disobedience to God’s word they are not true Christians but practicing false religion.

  • Scott Davenport

    Y’know, I’d no more want to receive counsel from a lying pervert than I would a drunk that was ordained…..you cleargy pretending to be straight and counseling people on scripture will have to answer for what your doing one day. No one forced you to lie to people….

  • 201821208 :)

    “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.” Rom. 1:26-27

    • Josey

      This scripture tells us it’s about lust not about love or about equality or whatever reason the sodomites claim it is about.

      • 201821208 :)

        Amen!

  • Vanessa Charlton

    God’s word says you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven. This means accepting Jesus died for your sins and God raised him to life 3 days after his death on the cross. This is a very great sacrifice and to expect God to condone what he says is wrong in the face of this sacrifice is wrong. You trample the Son of God under your feet if you think you can pick and choose which bits to follow. Jesus was tempted many times, but he did NOT sin. If the flesh tempts you call on God and repent. This means changing though as there is no compatability with the Light and dark. God specifically calls homosexuality an abomination in the Old Testament (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13) but It is also mentioned in the New Testament (Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1Timothy 1:10). It is important to remember that the sin that is the act must be repented and the lifestyle changed. God wants everyone to come to him, but without putting aside our sin and changing we are just slapping his gift into the mud. The responsability for the change of lifestyle is on the individual and it is a daily battle. While I applaud the recognition of these folk to need God and want to spend time in his presence, I really think they need to listen to God directly on this and repent and change. God does not want to reject anyone, but knowing you are sinning and continuing boldly is not wise. God is not mocked and the consequence is missing his eternal presence, be you witch, homosexual, thief, liar, murderer, etc. Jesus is the gamechanger and relationship with Him the only way to overcome. We all sin, but the choice to live in victory requires our perception of our own wrongdoing to be able to change and move forward. May God move all involved into his presence clean and whole in his Son Jesus Christ.

    • disqus_bHreF1fkX5

      Thank you! I couldn’t have said it better!!

  • bowie1

    Usually if people “come out” it is assumed that they are confessing to be sinners who wish to repent of their wrongdoing. This is not it so it appears.

    • The Last Trump

      “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” 1 John 2:19

      Just ANOTHER fulfilled prophecy from the most reliable and trustworthy source known to mankind. Nothing to see here. 😉

      • Ronald Carter

        “Nothing to see here”

        First time you’ve said anything I agree with.

    • Josey

      No, what we have here is satan instead of being sneaky and coming in the back door hiding himself while he wreaks havoc he wants to arrogantly stand in the pulpit.

  • Theodore Fenton

    I applaud their courageous stand in the face of hatred, bigotry, and persecution. May they and their families remain safe from harm.

    • TruthiNLove

      You applaud their courage? Who’s courage? I hope your are referring to CHRISTIANS who hold their ground even though politicians, liberals, atheists, ACLU, LGBTQ, etc continue to show intense hatred, bigotry and persecution. I assume you do not side with the LGBTQ because on this issue because the Bible makes it clear that homosexuality is a sin. After all…would you or any LGBTQ advocate approve of a Pastor committing adultery…AND actually continually doing that while Pastoring a church? No they (or you) would not. Ironically, those who are anti-Christian use that type of behavior of a Pastor AGAINST him saying he would be a hypocrite. If you and/or LGBTQ would say he should not live in that sinful way/lifestyle how do you justify a “gay Christian”? Adultery is a sin, homosexuality is a sin. It is truly that simple. Further….read the BIBLE…when Jesus talked to the woman caught in adultery (aka a “sin”), Jesus was merciful…BUT..he also so go on your way and SIN NO MORE! That was from Jesus’ on mouth. It cannot get any clearer. One cannot live in sin and be in God’s favor. That his why Jesus died! He died so that we have freedom FROM the power and penalty of sin…not so that we can live in sin and simply justify it by passionate feeling. The media can call Christians what they want…but when it comes the the Christian community…the BIBLE is the authority and has already made it clear about homosexuality. We as Christians do not need to “judge” LGBTQ..the Bible has done that already. The Bible makes it 110% clear who will enter the kingdom of God and who will not. Do I REALLY need to say that sinners will not enter the kingdom of God? It does not matter what I think, it matters what God has already said. The issue is…whether you will follow God…or follow your feelings. Lord Bless!! 🙂

      • disqus_bHreF1fkX5

        My thoughts exactly!

      • Bob Johnson

        The church has not held its ground on slavery, women teaching, women wearing slacks or in the use of birth control – except of course for the Pope. The church has surrendered to Copernicus’ view of the heavens and Pasteur’s Germ Theory.

        The church will continue to change and in time we will be told how the church fought for civil liberties on many fronts. The alternative is to be listed along side Zoroastrianism.

      • gizmo23

        You seem to think there can be no redemption. You stated that sinners cannot go to Heaven, does that include you since we are all sinners?

      • Theodore Fenton

        You assume incorrectly.

      • Chrissy Vee

        o/♪ ♥

    • 201821208 :)

      “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.” Rom. 1:26-27

    • jjgrndisland

      Gays cannot have “families.” It takes a man and woman to create a human being.

      You can Google “human reproduction” and learn how it works.

    • DanH

      LOL
      Going along with the crowd is “courageous”?

      Anything but.

  • disqus_bHreF1fkX5

    This is not the view of all United Methodists! I don’t appreciate this article being misleading into the fact that this is how the whole denomination feels. This is just a small group of people that belong to the United Methodist church that are wanting to change the church in a more worldly way. I dislike that the focus is being take off of God and improving our relationship with Him, and placed instead on the selfish desires of the human flesh.

  • TruthiNLove

    As I told another commentor on this page. This shouldn’t even be a debate, but alas it is. On the bright side, this does help a Christian (and in my case a Minister) understand those who struggle with sin. Bottom line, the Bible makes it clear that homosexuality is a sin. After all…would any LGBTQ advocate approve of a Pastor committing adultery…AND actually continually committing adultery while Pastoring a church? No they would not. Ironically, those who are anti-Christian use that type of behavior of a Pastor AGAINST him saying he would be a hypocrite. LGBTQ advocates would say he should not live in that sinful way/lifestyle and yet pastor a church and/or claim to be Christian and yet they try to justify a “gay” Christian? Adultery is a sin, homosexuality is a sin. NT and OT make that clear. It is truly that simple. Further….read the BIBLE…when Jesus talked to the woman caught in adultery (aka a “sin”), Jesus was merciful…BUT..he also said go on your way and SIN NO MORE (John 8:1-11)! That was from Jesus’ own mouth. Jesus did NOT approve of the sin, to the contrary, He called it out and said do NOT do it anymore. It cannot get any clearer. One cannot live in sin and be in God’s favor. That his why Jesus died! He died so that we have freedom FROM the power and penalty of sin…not so that we can live in sin and simply justify it by passionate feeling. The media can call Christians what they want…but when it comes the the Christian community…the BIBLE is the authority and has already made it clear about homosexuality. We as Christians do not need to “judge” LGBTQ..the Bible has done that already. The Bible makes it 110% clear who will enter the kingdom of God and who will not. Does one REALLY need to say that sinners will not enter the kingdom of God (Gal 5:19-21 and 1 Cor 6:9-11 [18-20])? It does not matter what I think, it matters what God has already said. The issue is…whether you will follow God…or follow your feelings. Lord Bless!! 🙂

    • gizmo23

      Do you believe you are sinless? If not then should you be preaching? Just because someone is gay doesn’t mean they sin because of it.

      • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

        There r 2 different kinds of sins. There is the involuntary sin-in-thoughts or the Adamic sin nature that was inherited by all humans thru Adam’s Original Sin, …n there is the voluntary sin-in-deeds.
        …….Examples of the former r immoral hate, anger, lust, greed, selfishness, jealousy, fear n doubt that often arise in the hearts n minds. Examples of the latter r murder, adultery, stealing, perjury/lying/cheating, idolatry, blasphemy, etc that may be done with their hands, feet, lips, eyes n body.
        …….The former results in being cursed by God into eternal hell. The latter results in being cursed by God into suffering a sad n short life on earth.(DEUT.28:15-16)

        Christians should repent of the latter sins-in-deeds by keeping God’s/ /Moses Law either fully or partially( – ACTS.15:28-29), in order to be blessed by God with a good n long life on earth. Christians should repent of the former sins-in-thoughts by believing in Jesus Christ, in order to be blessed by God with the kingdom of heaven when they die n leave this earth.

        • forGodsoloved

          salvation is by grace through faith, not of yourselves it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man boast. when a believer sins, the Bible says, “if we confess our sins, He is just to forgive us our sin and (continually) cleanse us from all unrighteousness”. this is the provision for the believer to restore fellowship with the Father when we confess our sin. it’s awesome.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            Remember, b4 a man commits adultery with his body, first he had immorally lusted at a woman in his heart n mind; ,,,b4 a man commits murder, first he had immorally hated, greeded, envied, etc another person in his heart n mind.
            …….As per MARK.7:21, all sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking originated from the heart, ie the Adam’s Original Sin or Adamic sin nature that all humans r born with.(cf: ROM.5:12)

            It is this inborn sin that Christians need to first confess n repent of, in order to be saved from hell(cf: MATT.5:27-30) bc there r people who may not hv to confess of their sins/evil-deeds since they hv not broken any law of God/ /Moses or hv not committed any sins/evil-deeds, as implied by MATT.19:20 n the beggar Lazarus of LUKE.16:19-31.

            Of course, if there r any sins/evil-deeds, Christians should also be confessing n repenting of them. But God would prefer them not to commit any sins/evil-deeds by learning more deeply about His Law, esp new Gentile Christians who had mostly led lawless lives b4 their conversion.

          • forGodsoloved

            Jesus said believe in Me and you shall be saved. he who has the Son has life. the thief on the cross said to Jesus…”remember me when You come into your Kingdom. Jesus told him this day you will be with me in Paradise. that’s amazing, he just believed that Jesus was God. the guy didn’t have a chance to jump off of the cross and live a good Christian life or be baptized or go to church. he just believed. the Gospel really is a simple message but I think people make it confusing and sort of a works program. I don’t mean you, I’m just thinking about a couple of things. anyways, salvation is by grace through faith. and then we grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. grace= that which God gives us that we don’t deserve or can ever earn…salvation. mercy= that which God doesn’t give us that we do deserve…hell and eternal separation from Him. and I think of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life. Christians can live at both of these. but the tree of life is where we have fellowship with Christ. for He is the way, the truth and the life. and if a Christian falls, he has an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            Why do people need to be saved.? Many good atheists do not think they need to be saved, eg they hv not committed murder, adultery, stealing, etc or broken any major US Law or local Law.
            …….People need to be told that something is innately wrong/evil/sinful with them n bc of this they need to be saved from hell. If this is not so, people could hv achieved utopia or a perfect govt long ago.

          • forGodsoloved

            you’re right. for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. unbelievers live from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. there is both…the good and the evil. but it is a human goodness, the “good” part of the tree. I guess we could call it the “moral” part of the human nature w/o Christ. morality is good for it can help preserve a nation but can never save the soul. and the evil part, well, we see that everywhere and the heart is desperately wicked…who can know it. evil goes so deep. we don’t even know our own heart. all the sins you listed, yes a lot are outward, but in Proverbs it list the seven things God hates and only one of them is the outward one, murder. so yes, you are right, people need to see that life without Christ is death. Jesus said you must be born again. and when we are He doesn’t repair our old heart, He gives us a brand new one His heart, His Holy Spirit. we keep preaching and sharing the Gospel, the Good News. to people.

          • debek

            Question: If Jesus Christ IS God, than how can he advocate for someone with God? I mean, how does he have a discussion with himself or better yet – why would he have to have a discussion with himself????? The more I hear Christians rant, the less I think I’m a Christian. I know I believe in God. I have felt Gods presence. I have felt his arms around me. He has spoken to me in words so clear that I knew it was God. I even had a vision of Christ once. I used to be afraid to tell anyone because I didn’t want them to think I’m crazy. But he, with all the crazy crap thrown out in the name of ‘Christianity’ these day, what am I worried about, lol!

          • Bluezlover

            There is three distinct personalities of God, God the Father, God the SOn, and God the Holy SPirit so Jesus is not the father and so on, That is the biblical way of understanding the Trinity.

          • debek

            If Jesus is not the Father, then Jesus in not God. Is that what you are saying?

          • Bluezlover

            He obviously repented and believed.

      • forGodsoloved

        all have sinned and fallen short of the glory od God. the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    • acontraryview

      “Bottom line, the Bible makes it clear that homosexuality is a sin. ”

      Really? Perhaps you could point out that section to me. While I am aware that the bible speaks of two people of the same gender having sexual relations as being a sin, I am unaware that the bible speaks of merely being homosexual as a sin. Where is that in the Bible?

      “would any LGBTQ advocate approve of a Pastor committing adultery…AND actually continually committing adultery while Pastoring a church? ”

      So you are saying that there no churches which allow a person who was divorced for reasons other than adultery to be a pastor?

      • Oboehner

        Matthew 5:27-28 King James Version (KJV)

        27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
        28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
        That covers gays too.

        • acontraryview

          Only lesbians. Gay men don’t lust after women.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            Lust after women, lust after men, lust after daughter/mother, lust after boys/girls, lust after 2 wives/2 husbands, lust after dogs/camels, etc, = same, same n sin, sin.

          • acontraryview

            You must be one of those false Christians. Apparently you are unaware that the Bible is the literal word of God and is therefore not subject to, nor in need of, your human interpretation. It says what it says. if God had wanted to include those other things, he would have had the writers of the gospels do so. They didn’t. Quit thinking that you are in a position to interpret the words of God. What are you, God?

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            U must be one of those LGBTQs or supporters/condoners who falsely think he/she will be saved.

          • acontraryview

            Saved from what?

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            Saved from yrself.?

          • acontraryview

            Seriously, dude, it’s not that hard to type out the entire word. You’re only missing two letters. I can’t be saved from myself as I am myself.

          • Bluezlover

            Circular reasoning will not get you anywhere but lost, dead and empty for eternity.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            Saved from yrself also means saved from yr own foolishness. …….Duh.!

          • TheKingOfRhye

            They say there are strangers who threaten us
            Our immigrants and infidels
            They say there is strangeness too dangerous
            In our theaters and bookstore shelves
            That those who know what’s best for us
            Must rise and save us from ourselves

            (Witch Hunt, Rush)

          • Bluezlover

            YOur sin.

          • debek

            With God’s mercy, saved from ignorant people who memorized a few select verses in the Bible but missed the message completely! The saddest thing ever these days is that these neandorthals are the visible face of Christianity, but not real Christians. The gen pop thinks that all Christians think like that, and I for one, don’t. I believe that anything or anyone that seeks to separate God’s people from one another is an abomination to God. And I certainly do not think that my faith means that I’m supposed to stop thinking and evolving as a human being. No – I’m not gay or anything else, I have no gay children, or trans or etc. But I know when something is so against the intent of what Christ tried to show us in his time with us.

          • debek

            the Bible is the LITERAL word of God. uhuh. So – you’ll be sleeping with your dead brothers wife to impregnate her soon? You’ll only beat your slave so that after 2 days they can stand up again, but never killl them! Because if you killl them, you must be punished! And I know you leave the edges of the fields for the poor and the orphans and widows to take, right? And surely you avoid shellfiish – because the eating of shellfish is an abomination to God! Please tell me you do not eat clams or lobster or shrimp. And no mixing of clothes – only one material at a time please, because it says so in the Bible! Ah, then there are the fun parts – you can take you enemies as slaves, and you can sleep with their women – but you can’t marry them. Keep doves ready for sacrifices, too, do you? Must be messy, ugh! But at least you’ll rarely have to sacrifice a larger animal. Get a grip – or please take your med?

          • Bluezlover

            That is for the Israelites, read the bible in context with understanding and history and you will understand it better.

          • forGodsoloved

            yes, and Christ fulfilled the Law. He satisfied God to men and men to God. no more need of sacrifice since Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. the blood of the animal sacrifices were offered for the sin of the people but the blood of animals couldn’t purge the conscience. Jesus Christ alone could do that and He did!!

          • debek

            Bingo! That is exactly my point.

          • Oboehner

            Wrong.
            26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
            27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
            Romans 1:28-27

          • acontraryview

            “For this cause God gave them up”

            So God made them gay.

          • forGodsoloved

            because they became vain in their imaginations. unthankful. rejected the glory of God. became fools because they thought they were wise (the foolishness of God is wiser than man). the glory of God is revealed through creation…the things that are seen, and yet man glorified himself and worshipped the creature instead of the Creator. yes, God gave them up to uncleanliness through the lust of their own hearts (through their own choices), to dishonor their own bodies between themselves. there is no honor in sin. they chose to change the truth of God, their Creator, into a lie (people who live in homosexuality are choosing to believe a lie and are living a lie). man serves himself instead of the glorious Creator. it’s a choice. for these reasons God gave them up to the result of their own wrong decisions, vile affections…and the result of man’s wrong decisions…well, it goes on from there. we see it everywhere. it is very sad. and the wrath of God abides on the unbeliever. two important words…”but God”. God has paid for the penalty of sin (death, physical and spiritual ) through the death of His Son, Jesus Christ, on the cross. “for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life”. he bore all our sin on His own body. when we believe in Him, His death, burial and resurrection, He saves us. He gives us His Spirit. He dwells in the believer, He renews our mind. He reveals the truth about Him and about us through His Word and His Holy Spirit. “if any man be in Christ he is a new creation. old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” He gives us a new heart and a renewed mind. we grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ (not one without the other…they go together- grace is what God gives us that we don’t deserve or could ever earn or produce on our own…salvation. knowledge- the mind of Christ found in His Word, which He esteems higher than His name, His nature). so this is the Good News, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. for by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man boast. so the Lamb of God who takes the sin of the world. all sin, including homosexuality.

          • Bluezlover

            Again dense, he gave them up to do what they wanted to do, their way, That is a horrible place to be, it means you have decided Gods word and His boundaries are not for you and you do not believe,. If you did, you would repent and believe and be filled with His holy spirit and born again, Lest ye be born again ye will not enter the kingdom heaven.

          • Oboehner

            He let them go their fairy, er I mean merry way to do as they please.

          • debek

            Natural use of what exactly? Their mouths? Their vaginas? Their hands? gimme a clue!

          • Oboehner

            If I have to explain…

          • Bluezlover

            Don’t be so dense, it is about anyone lusting after anyone.

          • Bluezlover

            It is whoever anyone lusts after.

      • The Last Trump

        Christianity and homosexuality are incompatible. Period.
        Always was and always will be.
        No matter how much you wish it wasn’t so.
        Oh, you thought it was just an amazing coincidence that for generations, all over the world, Christians universally rejected homosexuality and promoted traditional marriage? Just, um….because?
        Uh huh. Riiiiight.
        You’ll have to do better than that, Muffin. The good people here are not naïve, easily swayed and manipulated liberals.
        The people that actually read and cherish the Bible know EXACTLY what it says.
        What’s next, trollster? Going to try to tell us that there’s no such thing as sin?

        • acontraryview

          So I take you can’t point out the section in the Bible where it says that being homosexual is a sin. Got it. Thanks.

          • The Last Trump

            What?
            YOU didn’t know!!??
            Tsk, tsk.
            How embarrassing.

          • acontraryview

            Actually, the embarrassment would be on the part of someone who claims to be a Christian, claims something exists in the Bible, but this unable to prove it. Now THAT’S embarrassing.

          • Ronald Carter

            I’ve been trying to get him to do that for about two weeks now.

          • acontraryview

            Good luck with that. He can’t do it and he knows he can’t so he just dances around it.

          • Ronald Carter

            But what a tap dancer. He won’t answer your question but he’ll call you a liberal and “Muffin” and talk down to you the entire time. Anything to deflect from the topic at hand.

          • acontraryview

            Relying on such behavior merely shows the weakness of his arguments. While he thinks he is demeaning others, in realty he is only demeaning himself.

          • Ronald Carter

            Well, there’s a whole mountain of smugness and a whole bakery of liberal muffins and self-congratulatory giggles and “adorable!”s and talking to the crowd going on here, which would make sense if the facts were there, but he never seems to be able to produce any.

        • debek

          I am sorry that you feel that way, especially considering that science can now show that the brain functions differently in LGBTQ persons. The Bible says an awful lot of things about a lot of things. So very many we have come to understand as meaningful on to their context – the times and peoples to which they were written. One simple example is that statement in Leviticus that eating shellfish is an abomination to God. So many of us don’t buy that anymore and enjoy shrimp, lobster, clams without worry of being shunned by our Christian community. The Bible also tells us quite specifically that it is acceptable for a master to beat a slave, as long as that slave does not die for 2 days – the master is only to be punished if the slave dies. Yet we not only have come to believe that God considers it a sin for anyone to beat anyone for any reason, but we have also come to understand that slavery of anyone for any reason is also a sin against God. How is it that we believe that God expects us to evolve in our understanding of the words He left to guide us as His servants – EXCEPT in certain things? I would challenge you to either embrace the entire Bible, word for word, command for command, or not. But picking and choosing just to suit your own taste, certainly is an abomination to God. I suppose that in my thinking and pondering and praying about His word and concluding differently than you do, you could say that I am picking and choosing according to my own taste. But really, when I face God, he will know that if I erred (and I don’t think I do) I have done so in the cause of Love and inclusion. No wonder we are called hypocrites and despised by the world today!

          • The Last Trump

            Christians do love and include homosexuals.
            Which is why we are honest with them.
            We cannot condone what the Bible condemns.
            And when you love somebody, you are completely honest with them about the potential danger of choosing the wrong path.
            No matter the cost.

          • debek

            Oh! So you do not eat shellfish or cut your sideburns, as is commanded in the Bible. Good for you! And I suppose that you will be the first to bring a lawsuit to force a widow to become impregnated by her dead husbands brother, as is commanded in the bible. And I am sure that should your daughter be raped you will force her rapist to marry her so that she will not be homeless and helpless – as is commanded in the Bible.

            BTW: It is not love or inclusion when you are refusing to allow anyone to take communion at the table with you. It is not even simple human decency when you go out of your way to try to force your philosophical standards on someone else.

          • The Last Trump

            I go out of MY way?!
            🙂
            Which of us is trolling the Christian website?
            Telling all of the misguided Christians just how wrong they all are?
            Save it, bub.

          • Ronald Carter

            Debek sounds like a Christian to me, Last Trump. The “trolling a Christian website” line isn’t working so well for you anymore. Likely from overuse.

          • The Last Trump

            Folks around here are smart enough to tell the difference.
            And they all see through you just fine.
            Any conversions today? “Ron”.

          • Ronald Carter

            We will clear something up right now. Why do you steadfastly, obnoxiously insist on putting my name in quotation marks as though it is not my name? My name is Ron Carter. It is not “Ron”.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Christians do love and include homosexuals”

            Include them in what exactly? You said a few posts ago that Christianity and homosexuality are incompatible.

          • The Last Trump

            So repent.
            All sinners are expected to turn from their sin. ALL. Myself included.
            Do not endulge and promote sin, repent from it. To the best of your ability.
            And be grafted into the family of God.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Hmm…..so, by saying “include homosexuals”, you really mean “include homosexuals who think it’s sinful and want to repent.” Now I think I got it. I just thought that seemed contradictory when compared to what you said a little while back.

            “So repent”? Uh….no thanks, I’ll pass. I’m neither homosexual nor seeking to be “included”, so I’m good there.

          • The Last Trump

            Yeah. We figured as much.

          • Ronald Carter

            Who’s “we”?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I was wondering that myself.

          • Ronald Carter

            Last Trump sees himself, I would say, as the leader of a great bunch of villagers with torches and pitchforks, speaking on behalf of all of his adoring clan as he wages war against Satan (us).

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Well, he thought I was you, or probably still thinks that, so I don’t know how much he’s really got “figured”.

          • Ronald Carter

            Ah, he always thinks everybody is somebody else. Took me a while to figure out why he loves putting quotation marks around everyone’s name.

          • Ronald Carter

            You took the words right out of my mouth. Trump logic seems to be an oxymoron.

          • Ronald Carter

            That was wonderfully said. Thank you.

      • forGodsoloved

        Romans, chapter 1. it is very clear…if you want to know the truth about it. God calls it vile and loathsome. all have sinned and fallen short of the glory (nature) of God. and the wages of sin is death. but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. there is forgiveness in Christ for this sin an all sin, “for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life”. do you believe this?

        • acontraryview

          Yes, very clear. God made the people who didn’t believe in him gay.

          “do you believe this?”

          No.

          • forGodsoloved

            I don’t even think you believe what you just wrote. read the chapter. it’s pretty clear. it’s not new math! really, if you want the truth God is faithful to show you. ask Him. He will answer you. He looks on the heart. Jesus said, “you must be born again”, born of His Spirit. born from above. and when you are, He will give you understanding. we need God’s Spirit in us to know God…He gives us His understanding. He is faithful to do it.

          • acontraryview

            Seems very clear to me.

            ” ask Him. He will answer you. He will give you understanding. we need God’s Spirit in us to know God”

            I have. He has. He did – and continues to each day. Agreed.

            From what he’s told me, you are going to be in for a pretty big surprise when you pass from this world.

          • forGodsoloved

            I agree about the big surprise for God said…”but as it is written,eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither has entered into the heart of man the things God has prepared for them that love Him. 1Corinthians 2:9

          • acontraryview

            “for God said…”but as it is written,eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither has entered into the heart of man the things God has prepared for them that love Him. 1Corinthians 2:9”

            That is what the Bible says. Your belief that those are God’s words are just that – a belief. They may be. They may not. That’s why it’s called “faith” and not “fact”.

            I’m glad you agree that you are in for a big surprise. I doubt, however, that we agree on the nature of that surprise.

          • forGodsoloved

            I’m sorry acontraryview, that you don’t believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God. and you are right, the only thing that pleases God is our faith! “for without faith it is impossible to please Him”. but it’s not just a blind faith or wishful thinking or something that can be worked up in our own limited capacity as a human being whose soul clings to the dust. it is the faith of the Son of God. God’s faith that He gives to the believer once they believe on Christ. now faith is the substance things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. when Jesus told Thomas, “because you have seen me and believed, blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.” the last part you wrote, “…I doubt, however, the nature of the surprise”. those are pretty sad words. and they are a lie. it is contrary to what God says about His children…the ones who have believed in Christ and are saved. what you wrote is the opposite of the nature of God. for even if God takes one of His children home early (the sin unto physical death) because of a series of wrong decisions that hurt not only himself continually but also the one’s around him (only God knows why and if He takes a child home early), even this is an act of mercy of this loving Father in heaven. mercy is that which God doesn’t give us what we deserve…hell. so, hope you get to know this God and I hope one day He will show you about His infallible Word that was inspired (God-breathed) by Him. and He used His children to write it…nothing about His Word originated with the people He used. God always uses people, His children. we are here to tell the world about His grace until the day He takes us all away- the rapture! can’t wait!!

          • acontraryview

            “and you are right, the only thing that pleases God is our faith! “for without faith it is impossible to please Him”.”

            “for without faith it is impossible to please him” does not translate into “the only thing that pleases God is our faith”.

            “it is the faith of the Son of God.”

            That is a blind faith or wishful thinking or something that can be worked up in our own limited capacity as a human being.

            “and they are a lie.”

            How do you know for certain?

            “it is contrary to what God says about His children”

            Correction. It is contrary to what you have chosen to believe God said about his children. Unless you are God, you cannot say with 100% what he wants, or believes, or desires. All faiths believe that their beliefs are the one true essence of God. Clearly they can’t all be right. You can no more be certain that your views are correct and all others wrong, then someone can be certain that your views are wrong and something else is correct. It is a matter of faith. Not fact.

            “so, hope you get to know this God”

            I have no desire to know a God who is jealous, spiteful, destructive, vengeful, and who threatens his creation with eternity in a lake of fire, regardless of how they conduct their lives or the good they do during their lives, simply because they did not accept Jesus as their savior.

            “His infallible Word”

            If he word in infallible then why are there so many different sects of Christianity that cannot come to agreement on the totality of what is sinful and what is not and what is moral and what is not? Which sect is correct?

          • forGodsoloved

            Hebrews 11:6 but without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek HIm. I hope that one day you will know the God of the Bible…the One true God. three Person’s in One- God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. if you don’t want to believe that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life, and that He paid the penalty for your sin to reconcile you with the Father, then you will go to hell when you die. and you are choosing to go there by rejecting such a great salvation. Jesus said, “you must be born again”. those are His words and He tells us this so we know the truth. you must believe what he did for you personally. when we stand before Him there will be no excuses (the skin of a reason stuffed with a lie). if you choose not to believe His Word that is your choice. but that doesn’t make His Word not true. God tells us to prepare to meet Him. those words that you called God, jealous, spiteful etc. well, you are actually describing the one who hates him, satan. satan would love for you to go to hell. Christ saves us from Hell. satan scatters. Christ gathers. yes, the infallible Word of God! God is perfect. His Word is perfect! sects don’t define the Word of God…God gives the definition. religion is manmade…Christianity is Christ. maybe you could read Hebrews 11 and learn about faith. be honest with God. I mean, He already can read our thought afar off. but He likes to relate to people because He loves them and He died for them. His desire is that none should perish. it is a choice…choose this day.

          • debek

            Wow!!!! So you’ll be selling your daughter into slavery soon, eh? Have you impregnated any widows yet – as is Commanded by God in the BIBLE? And I know you don’t eat shellfish, cut your sideburns, eat pork, lamb. And I’ll bet you especially enjoy stoning to death all of the adulterors cuz we KNOW there are more of them than LGBTQI, ROFLOL!

          • forGodsoloved

            debek, what are you talking about? anyways, you brought up certain sins. for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. the wages of sin is death (physical and spiritual), but the gift of God is salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord. Christ paid for the sin of homosexuality, adultery, fornication, gossip, lying, and for mr and mrs goody-two-shoes too. because there are none righteous, no not one. only Christ. an when a person believes on Him, His death, burial and resurrection, the Lamb of God who, who died on the cross to pay the penalty of our sin, that person is born again and becomes a child of God. and that person has the righteousness of Christ…not his own self-righteousness which is described as a used women’s rag after her period and is thrown away. sorry to get graphic but that’s what God says about our own righteousness apart from Him. hey, this is good news, debek! have you ever heard of the Gospel of Christ?

          • forGodsoloved

            debek, ps…does ROFLOL mean rolling on floor laugh out loud? HAHAHAHA!…that means hahahaha!

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            Yr problem is that u falsely believe that homosexuality is not a sin/evil-deed against God.
            …….That is on top of u not believing that God purposely changed these God-denying n rebellious sinners into homosexuals.

          • acontraryview

            “Yr problem is that u falsely believe that homosexuality is not a sin/evil-deed against God.”

            No where in the bible does it say that being homosexual is a sin.

            “That is on top of u not believing that God purposely changed these God-denying n rebellious sinners into homosexuals.”

            So you believe that if a person is Christian god-denying, that God turns them into homosexuals?

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            U r talking like a Pharisee lawyer. Nearly all homosexuals r practicing homosexuals n engage in homosexual acts.
            …….Furthermore, at MATT.5:27-30, Jesus Christ stated that men r going to hell just by immorally lusting after a woman in their heart bc it is part of Adam’s Original Sin. So too will homosexual men be going to hell for immorally lusting after men.
            …….According to Jesus Christ, if such sinning people(= all of us) do not wanna end up in hell, they can either pluck out their eyes n chop off their limbs/penises or accept Him as their Christ/Messiah/Savior.

          • acontraryview

            “Nearly all homosexuals r practicing homosexuals n engage in homosexual acts.”

            While that may be true, that does not change the fact that homosexuality itself is not a sin in the bible.

            “just by immorally lusting after a woman in their heart ”

            Good thing that gay men don’t lust after women.

            “So too will homosexual men be going to hell for immorally lusting after men.”

            The Bible makes no mention of that.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            As per MATT.5:27-30, with SSM, there r married homosexual men who often look at a desirable man to immorally lust for him in their hearts. So, according to the Word of Jesus Christ, the married homosexual men r also bound for hell. Duh.!
            …….This also applies to single gays bc sexual fornication by singles is also a sin/evil-deed, like adultery, rape, incest, bestiality, etc.

          • acontraryview

            It says men looking at women.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            At the beginning, it says, “U shall not commit adultery”.

          • Rob Handy

            You continue to lie, acontraryview! The Bible condemns homosexuality from beginning to end!

          • Ronald Carter

            Actually, it does not.

          • Bluezlover

            Read the word and you will know you are a liar and the truth is not in you. You are from your father who is the father of all lies and liars. Repent and believe and be saved.

          • debek

            OMG! Is THAT the new take on it, ROFLOL! They used to just say Satan took them over, now it’s God punishing them. I guess when one lie become too absurdly obvious it’s time for a new one.

          • Bluezlover

            God did not make them gay the world did, hormones in food, sin of sexual and emotional abuse, etc

          • forGodsoloved

            there are a lot of people hurting because of all kinds of abuse. and there is also a devil who continually lies to people about their identity. and he loves it when people are confused because he is the author of it. people need to hear the salvation message of Christ. He is the healer of the soul. a person really does choose to live a certain lifestyle. that’s for sure. God gave us the tremendous gift of free volition. He wants people to come to Him by faith and have a personal relationship with each person. but the fact that man chose to disobey Him, sin entered the world and that is what separates us from a Holy God because He cannot fellowship with unrighteousness. thus sending His Son into the world to bear our sin in His own body and pay the penalty…of death…on the cross. when a person believes in Jesus and what He has done for us, they are saved. they are in Christ. if any man be in Christ he is a new creation; old things are passed away, behold all things are become new. because the believer is in Christ, when God sees us He sees His Son! the Bible says that we have the righteousness of Christ! that is an awesome gift. it is His righteousness and nor our own. well, Jesus died for every sin, past, present and future, and when a person believes in Him, they are forgiven, past, present and future. this is a gift of grace. nothing we could never earn, it is given. well, one sin that He bore on His body is the sin of homosexuality. and a person can be saved and delivered from this sin as well as any other. satan wants a person to live in the lie. Christ reveals the truth about it and takes care of it when people come to Him. repentance, a word that sometimes takes on sort of a self-righteous attitude or a religious meaning. but what it really means is agreeing with God about our sin and about what Christ did to it…nailed it to the cross! so we agree with God and He does the turning. He draws us through His Word, His Spirit in us. He is very patient and very loving and gives us room to grow. I think many homosexuals are searching for real love, but it won’t be found in any person or relationship apart from God. Jesus said, “if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto Me” He was “lifted up” on the cross. and Christians lift Him up to the world. we don’t condemn the world. but if a person does not believe he is condemned already. Jesus Christ is the answer for any of our troubles and sin. and we will spend eternity with Him!!

          • Bluezlover

            AMEN,. well said and written, thanks for sharing that.

          • forGodsoloved

            amen! the finished work of Jesus Christ.

          • acontraryview

            “God did not make them gay”

            How do you know for certain?

            “hormones in food”

            LOL. Now that’s a new one!

          • Bluezlover

            It’s not new at all, the hormones that are put in the milk, and in the meat is affecting animals and humans in a terrible way, Affecting thyroids, and all the glands of which the ovaries and testes are some of. They are mutating our bodies to make us feminized or masculine.

          • Bluezlover

            There are hormones from the plastic too that is a phyto estrogen that is affecting us.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Are we sure it isn’t GMOs making people gay? Oooh, no wait, I know, it’s the contrails, right? Or do I just really need to stop reading stuff about conspiracy theories…..

        • acontraryview

          “God calls it vile and loathsome”

          More accurately, the writers of the Gospels called it vile and loathsome. Subsequently, you have chosen to believe that the Bible contains the word of God. Perhaps it does. Perhaps it doesn’t. None of us can say with 100% certainty. That’s why it’s called faith….not fact.

          • forGodsoloved

            the Bible doesn’t contain the Word of God, it is the Word of God. and it cannot be added to or taken away from or privately interpreted. it is God’s Holy Spirit that give us understanding. Jesus Christ is the living Word of God. the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. this is God incarnate, Jesus Christ. pure, holy, perfect. every word of God is pure. it is quick, and powerful, and is sharper than any two-edged sword; piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. the word is life.

          • acontraryview

            You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it remains just that – your opinion.

          • Rob Handy

            forGodsoloved is exactly right, acontraryview. You must just be here to stir up trouble, and that’s my opinion – of you!

          • Bluezlover

            They are prophets of God given the word to share with us.

          • acontraryview

            You are certainly entitled to hold to whatever opinion you care to, but it remains just that, your opinion.

      • Bluezlover

        The scriptures above are well listed from the word of God and Jesus taught from them , Paul taught from them and this is clear in the word of God.

        • debek

          ROFLOL!!! Christ would have been more familiar with the septuagint. Most of the book that we call Bible was not put together until 325 AD – that is more than 300 years after Jesus died. Google Council of Nicea, fool!

          • Bluezlover

            That is what I was saying, do you not think the OT has the verses about homosexuality ? Where do you think it came from? Jesus taught from the scrolls and by that validated them. Do not be foolish.

    • http://www.rottaholic.com Joanna

      @TruthiNLove Agreed. This shouldn’t be up for debate. My personal feelings are …Love the sinner. Hate the sin. The Word of God and the Will of God stands. Being afflicted with this particular sin nature must be gut wrenching. Sins of the flesh takes many forms. Homosexuality is just one. And it is one of the two acts referred scripturally as an abomination.
      I feel sad for those that have succumb to theirsins of the flesh. The clergy that have ‘come out’ needs real pastoring and prayers.

      • Bluezlover

        They need to be taken out of the pulpit and brought before the church for repentance or sent out into the world , turned over to satan so they have a chance of being saved.

  • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

    This is a false statement: “While you have welcomed us as pastors, youth leaders, district superintendents, bishops, professors, missionaries and other forms of religious service, you have required that we not bring our full selves to ministry, that we hide from view our sexual orientations and gender identities.” They say that they were required to hide the truth of their sin. This is not so.

    The truth is that their sexual proclivities disqualify them from the positions that they hold. The honorable thing for them is to resign their position until such time as their sexual sin is behind them. However, they are not seeking that honor.

    The right thing for the denomination to do is to remove all of these signers from their positions. They have confessed themselves unrepentant sexual deviants, possibly supposing that by sheer force of numbers they will achieve acceptance of the unacceptable. Their bold and serious confession of sin demands a bold and serious response: remove them all from office, and let those who are not as well trained in the ways of satan do the job. Anything less is cowardice. To suppose that the church of Christ will suffer due to the removal of well-trained and experienced sinners is stupid.

    When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
    Let his days be few; and let another take his office.

    • Rob Handy

      Amen, Martin!

  • Clae Brewer

    “While you have welcomed us as pastors, youth leaders, district superintendents, bishops, professors, missionaries and other forms of religious service, you have required that we not bring our full selves to ministry, that we hide from view our sexual orientations and gender identities,” it says. Are they blaming the people for instituting a standard for ministers that the bible clearly stresses is an violation?

    1 Corinthians 6:9 NASBS
    Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

    Reprobatecy at it’s best.

  • Reason2012

    Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

    Homosexual behavior is most literally pointed out as a sin, and God has not changed on that regard. But if a person has those inclinations but does not act upon them, does not dwell in lust upon others, but is instead struggling against them to avoid them, then it’s not a sin. It’s just like sinful inclinations of any kind: it’s acting upon it when it becomes a sin.

    And this is what God says about sin and specifically the behavior of homosexuality:

    Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

    Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

    Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

    The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

    Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

    God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

    Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

    Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

    Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

    Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

    And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

    And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

    And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

    These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

    Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination …”

    Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

    Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

    Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

    1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

    1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

    2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

    And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

    Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

    Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

    And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

    Live forever, people – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world.

    May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

  • Bill Scudder

    John Wesley would turn over in his grave.

  • Warrior

    This completely brings to light the words of Jesus ” Luke Chapter 13

    25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

    26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

    27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all [ye] workers of iniquity.

    28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out.

    Psalms 94:16 Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?

  • Helena Marfell

    The Methodist prohibition is on practising homosexuals, in other words, anyone who has chosen to act on thier sexual urges, but not opened thier heart to the possibility that homosexual urges are not guiding them to a Godly lifestyle. Giving up the urge to act on sexual temptations is a struggle for nearly all humanity, not just for those who have same-sex urges. The Bible is very clear; one man, one woman. Nowhere does the Bible say that this pairing is simple, or easy, or even preferred by humanity. It says, this combination is blessed. This pairing reflects God’s plan. Any other urges, be they gay, straight, or otherwise aimed, are not blessed. Are not God’s plan. They may cause incredible levels of temptation, but to say they should be accepted as natural, as part of us, and that acting on them is not wrong, is essentially saying that we can’t help ourselves. I have great respect for anyone, man or woman, who has sexual urges they struggle against in order to stay true to God, instead of giving in to the lie that we must accept “who we are”. God loves us all–and asks us ALL to change “who we are” into who He is. Refusal to change is refusal of God’s highest call–obedience.

  • Kim Stryker Cronkright

    And you wonder why the Methodist church is declining, God knows, God sees. He is coming soon and we he will judge those who have not followed him, and turned from there wicked ways, and we the church will be judged for condoning such behavior and accepting it as “normal” and not guiding the sinners towards repentance Lord forgive them for they know not what they do.

  • Theodore Fenton

    All clergy who identify as Christian but who assure people that homosexuality is just fine with God
    will have to make God see if their way.
    Good luck with that, false teachers and apostates.

    • forGodsoloved

      yes. it is sad. it may be that they don’t even belong to God. an apple tree doesn’t grow oranges.

  • Brad F

    There’s lots more than 100 of them, their seminaries are basically LGBT indoctrination centers.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    They’d repent of the sinful behavior and sinful inclinations instead of seeking acceptance of those if they were really Christian. (I John ch. 1-5)

  • John Mushenhouse

    What is so new about this. I resigned my pastorate in 1987 because there was much homosexuality then among the elders(pastors). If you will disobey God by being a homosexual , you will lie too.

  • Sophie Maele

    The UMC is falling apart because the only people who attend their services are NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit. The UMC is now a progressive social justice PAC, not a church of the Lord Jesus Christ. Believing Christians need to leave any UMC church and shake the dust off their shoes when they do so.

  • ChipO1

    “Coming out” is just a way of getting attention. These people are not adults, they are narcissistic brats. Do we need brats in the ministry?