‘Christian Rocker’ Left Wife, Children After Embracing Homosexuality

Pearson View-compressedDuring an appearance on ABC’s “The View” on Friday, Everyday Sunday’s Trey Pearson, who released a letter last week to fans in which he came out as a homosexual, outlined that he has left his wife after deciding to no longer fight against having feelings for men.

As previously reported, Pearson, known for the hit songs “Find Me Tonight,” “Wake Up! Wake Up!” and “Best Night of Our Lives,” wrote in his public letter that he has come to believe that he has been wrong for subduing his emotions.

“I have been suppressing these attractions and feelings since adolescence,” he said. “Trying not to be gay has only led to a desire for intimacy in friendships which pushed friends away, and it has resulted in a marriage where I couldn’t love or satisfy my wife in a way that she needed.”

Pearson said that he doesn’t believe that change is possible.

“I am never going to be able to change how I am, and no matter how healthy our relationship becomes, it’s never going to change what I know deep down: that I am gay,” he stated.

On “The View” on Friday, Pearson suggested that he divorced his wife and moved out, as he referred to his wife of seven years as his “ex-wife,” and said that he meets with her and his two children once a week. He was asked by guest co-host LaLa Anthony if he was dating, and replied that he wanted to wait a year before entering into a relationship with a man.

“I am not dating. I decided when I was going through all of this to take at least a year just to get to know myself as a gay person—to know this knew part of me, before I start getting to know who somebody else is in that sort of way,” he replied.

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“My ex-wife and my two beautiful kids, we share every week, we hang out every week, we have dinner together as a family every week,” Pearson continued. “And that’s where my focus is. My focus is on being who I need to be for them, being healthy for them, and being healthy for myself. That way I can be healthy for other people.”

He had written in his letter last week that he was trying to sort through how to only be friends with his wife and yet co-parent their children.

When asked by Joy Bahar if he still considers himself a Christian, Pearson replied, “I feel like I’m more in love with Jesus and the Scriptures than ever as I’ve progressed in my faith and as I’ve experience this grace, this restoration, this being able to embrace truth without being scared of what people that live in fear feel like.”

He said he wants the Church to accept homosexuality.

“I want to see my church change. I want to see our denomination change,” Pearson said. “I want to see people to be willing to have the conversation in an open way where they are willing to listen to people’s stories.”

The musician, who is scheduled to perform at a homosexual pride event next week, said that he finds it “damaging” when ministers call homosexuality a choice.

“There are still people that are teaching these hurtful things and they are the ones that get scared when millions of people connect with it,” he stated. “And they want to say that you’re the false teacher, but they never start to think that it’s their false teaching that causes things like this to happen in the first place.”

Not all Christians believe that same-sex attraction is a choice, but rather a part of the Adamic sin nature that must be regenerated by the second birth, as Jesus outlined in John 3:5-7, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”

2 Corinthians 5:14-17 also reads, “For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead. And that He died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again. … Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”


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  • Quincher Glock

    This man is greatly decieved.

    • [email protected]

      deceived about what? that he is gay? He just came to terms with the fact that he can not change who he is and that suppressing that is not the grounds for a solid marriage. far from being deceived he decided to stop living a lie and to be honest with himself and those in his life that he is indeed homosexual and that trying to be married to the other sex as just not going to work.

      • Amos Moses

        “He just came to terms with the fact that he can not change who he is and that suppressing that is not the grounds for a solid marriage. ”

        So if he was a “suppressed thief” or a “suppressed murderer” ………. well then he should stop “suppressing” …………….. and all will be ok ……….. and he would then be “honest” …….. and not living a “lie” …………….

        He is living a lie …………. to his wife …….. to his children ……….. to God/Christ ….. to himself ………. but thats all okey dokie ………… for you anyway ……..

        • [email protected]

          can I just ask, why do you insert doted lines into all your posts? is there a reason or just something you do just because?

          there is no comparison between being homosexual and being a thief or a murderer thus your argument falls apart before it even begins becasue the beginning premise is wrong.

          and no, being honest about his sexual orientation is not a lie, it is him being truthful and if being honest is seen as a bad thing under your position then that should be a big hint that there is a problem with your position as it is asking people to lie and engage in deceit.

          • Amos Moses

            They are in fact murdering each other …….

            Obituraries numbering 6516 from 16 US homosexual journals over 12 years were compared to a large sample of obituaries from regular newspapers. The obituaries from the regular newspapers were similar to US averages for longevity, the median age of death of married men was 75, 80% of them died old, 65 or older. For unmarried or divorced men the median age of death was 57 and 32% of them died old.

            Married women averaged age 79 at death, 85% died old, and unmarried and divorced women averaged age 71, and 60% of them died old.

            However, the median age of death for homosexuals was virtually the same nationwide, and overall, less than 2% survived to old age. If AIDS was the cause of death, the median age was 39 years old. For the 829 homosexuals who died of something else besides AIDS, the median age was 42 years of age, and 9% died old. Of 163 lesbians, the median age was 44 years of age, and 20% died old. 2.8% of homosexuals died violently and they were 116 times more apt to be murdered, 24 times more apt to commit suicide, and had a traffic accident death rate 18 times greater than comparably aged white males. 20% of lesbians died of murder, suicide, or accident, a rate 487 times greater than that of white females aged 25 to 44.

          • [email protected]

            firstly what is your source for these numbers?

            secondly it is true that in some areas like suicide or substance abuse related death gay people are more at risk then the general population however this negative outcome is directly tied to anti-gay policies and rejection of gay people. for example gay kids are far more likely to be homeless then their heterosexual counterparts and that is becasue their parents reject them and cut support or are abusive and the kids leave. being homeless then puts the kids at higher risk for a number of problems ranging from substance abuse, criminal involvement, or health deficiencies. so to the extent that there are disparities the answer is to improve the life situation of gay people, not to use the disparities as a reason to make their life situation even more difficult.

          • Amos Moses

            “Gay obituaries closely track officially reported deaths from AIDS”, has been published in Psychological Reports (2005;96:693-697).

          • [email protected]

            thanks for the citation. I would note however that you are citing the discredited and debunked research of Paul Cameron who is about as non-credible as they come. here is the SPLC’s response to his “research”

            “However, like virtually all of his “research,” Cameron’s methodology is egregiously flawed — most obviously because the sample he selected (the data from the obits) was not remotely statistically representative of the LGBT population as a whole. Even Nicholas Eberstadt, a demographer at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, has called Cameron’s methods “just ridiculous.”

            Anti-LGBT organizations have also tried to support this claim by distorting the work of legitimate scholars, like a 1997 study conducted by a Canadian team of researchers that dealt with gay and bisexual men living in Vancouver in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The authors of the study became aware that their work was being misrepresented by anti-LGBT groups, and issued a response taking the groups to task.”

          • Peter Leh

            no need to cite corrections to AMOS… he is the self proclaimed gate keeper of salvation.

            in his own man’s kingdom.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Violence is a big problem. Thank you for these stats.

          • Ronald Carter

            It’s a big problem in straight relationships too, as my policeman friend who works in domestic violence will tell you.

          • Amos Moses

            2005 study ……….

            “Gay obituaries closely track officially reported deaths from AIDS”, has been published in Psychological Reports (2005;96:693-697).

          • Ken Faivor

            I’m really starting to like you Amos……..Errr, I’m straight.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Good work, Amos – thanks!

          • [email protected]

            the work he cited is the discredited and debunked research of Paul Cameron who is about as non-credible as they come. here is the SPLC’s response to his “research”

            “However, like virtually all of his “research,” Cameron’s methodology is egregiously flawed — most obviously because the sample he selected (the data from the obits) was not remotely statistically representative of the LGBT population as a whole. Even Nicholas Eberstadt, a demographer at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, has called Cameron’s methods “just ridiculous.”

            Anti-LGBT organizations have also tried to support this claim by distorting the work of legitimate scholars, like a 1997 study conducted by a Canadian team of researchers that dealt with gay and bisexual men living in Vancouver in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The authors of the study became aware that their work was being misrepresented by anti-LGBT groups, and issued a response taking the groups to task.”

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Oh, BTW, Amos – thanks again: I just found out that the SPLC does not like your citation – now I KNOW it is good. 🙂

          • Ronald Carter

            The Southern Poverty Law Center is an important human rights organization who are highly respected. I wonder at anyone who would oppose them.

          • Slidellman4life

            But homosexuality is comparable to drug and alcohol addiction, in that they are all destructive behaviors that hurt families.

          • Ronald Carter

            That is a statement of hate.
            Tell the gay partners of 35 years that what they have is destructive.

          • TheBottomline4This

            It doesn’t matter what we think, God says gay sex is an abomination.
            Lying with another man is an abomination. A woman lying with another woman that is an abomination. Case closed.

          • Ronald Carter

            No, not case closed. Case closed if you follow the religion that teaches you to believe that. Case wide open if you think that religion is incorrect.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Case closed.

          • Ronald Carter

            Sorry, but no.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Case closed.

          • Ronald Carter

            It’s closed when people stop talking about it. As you can see, people continue to discuss it. You don’t make the rules here.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Neither do you Ronny or even those who still talk about it and support it. The case really is closed. God trumps anything anyone who disagrees thinks or feels about it. So yes, the case is really closed. The sentence just hasn’t been dished out yet.

          • Ronald Carter

            However, you don’t speak for God either.

          • TheBottomline4This

            I can as long as it’s in His book, the Bible.

          • Ronald Carter

            Which says nothing about homosexuality, and does not serve as a science text on the matter.

          • TheBottomline4This

            You are blind Ronny and that fact makes satan a happy guy.

          • Ronald Carter

            Satan. Right. It can never be a disagreement, you always have to make it about Satan.

          • Joe

            You can dispute and deny the word of God all you want Ronald, but you will never diminish His Sovereignty.

            Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies
            between themselves:
            26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even
            their women did change the natural use into that which is
            against nature:
            27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the
            woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men
            working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves
            that recompence of their error which was meet.
            28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their
            knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those
            things which are not convenient;

          • Ronald Carter

            And yet we know from science that homosexuality is normal, so either your Bible verse is demonstrably wrong or you have been misinterpreting it all this time. So which is it?

          • Joe

            Misinterpret? I’m sorry Ronald but and individual with a 3rd grade education can read the words written in Romans 1:24-28 and conclude with ease what is being communicated. You have unfortunately conceded to the oldest deception known to man, which is questioning the word of God. Reprobate mind.
            Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field
            which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea,
            hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
            You are continuing to promote the same lie Satan spread in the garden.

          • Ronald Carter

            I guess you missed the part where I said that science tells us that homosexuality is normal then, didn’t you Joe?

            What that means is you have a choice to make. Either admit the Bible is wrong on that point, or admit that your understanding of those Bible passages must be incorrect.

            And save your 3rd grader and reprobate mind comments and insults.

          • Joe

            It is not a an insult to say that the bible is easily understood and no I ‘m not implying you have a reprobate mind, the word of God is. Your issue is with Him.
            The choice we all make is to accept that we “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God”. Then accept the free gift of God’s grace.

            Here is what the word of God says about your “science”

            1Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and
            will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

            20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer
            of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this
            world?

          • Ronald Carter

            I disagree that the Bible is the word of God, first of all. I see no reason to believe that it was divinely inspired. It is the words of men who thought they spoke for God. So no, I have no “issue” with God, but plenty of issues with your so-called holy book.

            Secondly, it seems that you have an all-purpose Bible verse which you can adapt to any situation, so no, I’m not going to take that particular one as an excuse to reject accepted and proven science.

          • Joe

            So can we conclude that you are an unbeliever who likes to comment on a believers news web site and contend against all things which pertain to the word of God. May I ask why?

          • Ronald Carter

            No, you can’t conclude that I am an unbeliever. I am not an atheist. I believe in God in a very general sense but put no conditions in what or who God is because I don’t believe it is possible to know.

            And I am here for the same reason you are. To discuss issues.

          • hytre64

            I guess you missed the part where science says that violence is normal, that infidelity is normal, that theft is normal to the “natural” man.

            Sorry, but I don’t turn to Science as a guide for morality, as science has none.

          • Ronald Carter

            Yeah. I did miss that. Probably because science never said it.

          • hytre64

            Actually, I have seen articles on infidelity being “normal”, with the ability of a woman to deceive a man to raise children who are not his own being a “high” function, along with the ability for a man to impregnate someone else’s spouse.

            Likewise articles on the “normal” violent impulses of males, which are subdued and subjugated by society (and especially woman”. Ditto for theft.

            It’s been a few years, as I have pretty much given up on reading such trash.

          • Ronald Carter

            You’re trying to equate behavior with states of being. Homosexuality isn’t something you do, it’s something you are. Science tells us that homosexuality exists, and all through the animal kingdom as well. It sounds like you’re arbitrarily choosing a bunch of behaviors that are not socially acceptable in any sense, and somehow trying to tie homosexuality in with them. But if you’re going to do that, then we return to the fact that infidelity and violent acts have victims, and homosexual relationships do not. You simply do not understand informed consent.

          • hytre64

            Let us, then, make a distinction between the attraction (Same-Sex-Attraction) and the activity (homosexual sex).

            Maybe you don’t have a choice about SSA, but you *do* have a choice about the activity.

            Pedophiles may not have a choice about their attraction to children, but they *DO* have a choice about their activities.

            Philanderers may not have a choice about their attraction to multiple women, but they *DO* have a choice about their activities.

            This male may not have had a choice about being attracted to other men (I won’t conceded on the *may* part), but he DID have a choice to leave his wife and his two children. Obviously, as some point he was attracted enough to her to be able to actually conceive the children in the first place. His not taking a year to explore this “new homosexual” side of himself leaves me with doubts that this was his natural state in the first place.

          • Ronald Carter

            Yes, and if you are not burdened by some stone-age idea that it’s wrong to be involved in s homosexual relationship, there isn’t a single reason why you should not engage in something loving and rewarding and fulfilling like any straight person.

            There are, however, many reasons not to act on pedophilia, philandering, etc. As you have already been told countless times. Because they are acts of ABUSE.

          • hytre64

            Since you are not approaching this from the perspective of a Christian, I see no reason to continue talking to you about how a Christian sees other Christians.

          • Joe

            Misinterpret? A person with a 3rd grade education can easily understand Romans 1:24-28. Ronald you are promoting the oldest deceptive trick known to man which is twisting, denying and disputing the word of God.
            Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field
            which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea,
            hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

          • Slidellman4life

            Remember, Ronnie is a homosexual, so anything is says in defense of homosexuality is 100% self-serving. Don’t encourage him by responding.

          • Ronald Carter

            I am not a homosexual.

          • TheBottomline4This

            You’re not????????????????????????!!!

          • Ronald Carter

            No. I am married to a beautiful woman.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Well then for that I apologize Ronny.

          • Slidellman4life

            I don’t. He has lied so many times, how do we know he is telling the truth now?

          • TheBottomline4This

            I’m well aware Ronny is gay.

          • Ronald Carter

            No, I am not a homosexual. But wouldn’t be ashamed if I was.

          • [email protected]

            the fact that someone supports gay rights does not mean they are gay. so if that’s all the evidence you have to say that he is gay then that’s not at all a very strong case.

          • [email protected]

            homosexuality is not a destructive behavior that hurts families. for one thing the sexual orientation itself is not a behavior. on the next level action on it is not destructive just like heterosexuality is not destructive. both have some level of potential for harm, especially if engaged in recklessly, however that is certainly not inherent to it. this is to say that unlike a drug or alcohol addition it is perfectly possible to engage in sexual activity with the other or same sex with no negative health outcomes.

          • Slidellman4life

            Dude, saying the same thing over and over again, who is it benefiting? Me? I know it is all lies, and proven lies at that. Other Christians? They feel the same way I do, and going broken record is not going to change their minds. Your lefty friends then? Who?

          • [email protected]

            I very much believe that the more civil and open conversation happens on this topic the better. what people do with what I say is up to them, I can not control how much people listen to or consider what I say but I can say it. If you have decided that it is all lies and not worth your time then you are of course free to ignore it. if on the other hand you want to engage in that conversation then I am certainly ready and willing to engage in that conversation and am equally ready to listen to what is said in response.

      • DoodyDoo

        you are obviously not a christian..your words show you hate that man, and want him to go to hell…like he, i hope you repent too…you can be set free 1 cor 6:9

        • [email protected]

          I am in fact a christian. I do not hate the man and I certainly do not want him to go to hell. we can indeed be set free from sin however even if acting on homosexuality is a sin that does not mean that the sexual orientation itself is a sin, just that celibacy should be pursued by gay people. furthermore disagreeing over if something is a sin is not the same as saying one has no sin or not asking for forgiveness of sins. for example I watch football on Sundays. Now if that was a sin but I did not see it as such would I go to hell? No, I would not be living in full accordance with Gods will at that point so it would still very much be a problem but i could certainly still be a christian.

  • TheBottomline4This

    Embracing abomination will make one do abominable things.
    Shame on this unbeliever posing as a christian.
    Let the world applaud him as they are already doing.

    • TheBottomline4This

      He says his church taught that God hated homosexuality. It’s true God hates the sin, but that should never be translated to it being hate of the person. God doesn’t hate the person. Too bad his church twisted what God does mean. But the way society is SO feminized these days, if you hate the sin, it automatically means you hate the person.
      satan sure likes to twists things.

      • Amos Moses

        “God doesn’t hate the person. ”

        Yes, actually He does ……………

        Malachi
        1:1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
        1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
        1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

        Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

        Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

        Psalm
        5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

        Proverbs
        6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
        6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
        6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
        6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

        God even hates the saying, and it is not a biblical saying “God hates the sin but loves the sinner”.

        Malachi
        2:17 Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?

      • Josey

        yeah he says a lot of things it seems but he’s probably misconstrued a lot or is just lying

        • TheBottomline4This

          Good point.

  • Emmanuel

    This guy never really read the Bible. Singing about Jesus and knowing Jesus are two different things.

    • http://www.dontneednostinkinwebsite.com/ Midlandr

      Yup

    • Peter Leh

      maybe… if it is shown SSA is immutable, we christians may have some serious repenting to do.

      • Ken Faivor

        Many are the Christians that WERE homosexuals.

        1Co 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
        1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
        1Co 6:11 And such …..WERE….. some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

        • Peter Leh

          true… if they left the SS lifestyle it was doubtful they had the SSA to begin with. Same goes for trey.

          • John Stevens

            “true… if they left the SS lifestyle it was doubtful they had the SSA to begin with. Same goes for trey.”

            Sorry, but that simply isn’t true. One person who left that lifestyle was so into it he was a gay porn actor.

            He admits to his SSA, and acting it in the most extreme forms, but then he found God, and was healed.

            That one is healed of a sin, does not mean one did not actually experience the temptation to commit that sin.

          • Peter Leh

            “Sorry, but that simply isn’t true. One person who left that lifestyle was so into it he was a gay porn actor.”

            many gay porn actors are straight. better money than straight porn. ):

            glad to hear he got out

          • Guest

            having gay sex is not straight sorry thats a lie

      • Chris H

        According to scripture, it is an abomination to G-d.

        • Peter Leh

          It is… so is women staying quite… and prohibition of shellfish and tattoos.

          Yet if it is shown to be immutable… god would be a mean sob to making them that way as he form them/us in the womb and knew us from the beginning. 🙂

          • John Stevens

            “It is… so is women staying quite… and prohibition of shellfish and tattoos.”

            Nope. I take it you don’t have any experience with proper Biblical exegesis?

            You are conflating three different things, as well as grossly exaggerating a third.

          • Peter Leh

            I am… but it depends whose ox is being gored how grossly exaggerated one wishes to be.

            there is a greater than zero chance our friend who does not spell gods name out does not apply the same standard to other chrisitans violating foods restriction or sabbath observance than he does homosexuals

            we seem to pick and choose our pets sins across the board and across denominations, no? 🙂

          • Ken Faivor

            No.

            God’s moral laws are forever. Mosaic Old Testament laws need to be interrupted by the Holy Spirit.

            2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

          • Peter Leh

            I know… tell it to Chris h

          • John Stevens

            “chrisitans violating foods restriction:

            What Christian food restrictions do you believe exist?

            Hint: this particular subject falls into one of the three different things you seem to be conflating.

          • Peter Leh

            none.

            i’m leveraging Chris H does, though

          • danc51

            ‘god would be a mean sob to making them that way as he form them/us in the womb ‘

            Being gay is about choices, not destiny. God isn’t responsible for the choices the gay man makes anymore than he is for the choices the serial killer or the alcoholic make. If God were only going to let the perfect people be born, this would be a very empty planet indeed.

          • Peter Leh

            “Being gay is about choices” not if proven immutable.

            “anymore than he is for the choices the serial killer or the alcoholic make”

            Seems to me the comparison of a gay human and a murder might need to be jettisoned. I it is “sin” but by what a difference in sin when one is murdered comparing that to consenting committed adults . :>)

          • danc51

            I it is “sin” but by what a difference in sin when one is murdered comparing that to consenting committed adults . :>)

            Why should that surprise you? Murder is sin,. Lying is sin. Certain sins may have more drastic consequences and may seem more barbarous but make no mistake about it, it’s all sin to God. A person who steals office supplies is just as lost as the serial killer. For sure the serial killer has more to pay for, but both are lost.

          • Gary Exelby

            Read the Bible. God makes it abundantly clear, from the beginning of Genesis to the end of Revelation, that people have the power to choose to sin or not. (Original sin was not — as some want you to think — sex, but disobedience.) And numerous verses (some of which I have already cited above) prove (a) He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and (b) there IS a way to get out form under the eternal death sentence: repent. Ask forgiveness for what you have done, do your best not to do it again, and — if you slip — repent yet again and continue to try doing the next right thing.

      • dan

        It is an abomination. He was never a Christian he was a singer trying to make money so he sold music !

        • Peter Leh

          maybe, i dunno. I was unaware making money was a deal breaker for god?

          • Charles White

            dan was not implying that his money making was any kind of a deal breaker. Its obvious that dan was only implying that Treys goal was to have a career and not a ministry in his music. and he is right. the bible calls it an abomination and his actions show that he never really was saved to begin with.

      • Sage

        Why? Explain the part about biological determinism sanctioning moral behavior. Does that go for ppl who are born attracted to children or with violent desires? Or lazy.

        • Gary

          People have many different desires. Is following personal desires safe? No. Never. The Bible says: “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” (Jeremiah 17:9). Proverbs 28:26 adds: “He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.” Jesus also said: “It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God” (Matthew 4:4).

          Two questions here: 1) Why is man’s heart “deceitful above all things,” and 2) why must we adhere to “every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God”?

          The biblical answer to the first question is that humanity is in a fallen condition. Our hearts will chose selfishness (our desires) if we do not submit totally to the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit. Only God can make the change necessary in us to go against the natural inclinations of the carnal heart (the flesh) and chose “the things of God” (the Spirit), see 1 Cor. 2:11. If we refuse to submit to this necessary process, we will never overcome our wicked tendencies, traits and habits.

          Even Jesus struggled with His human frailty. Hebrews 2:14,18 says: “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he [Jesus Christ] also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; (18) “For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succor them that are tempted.” Hebrews 4:15 adds: “For we have not an high priest [Jesus Christ] which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”

          Jesus overcame, but it was not easy for Him. Hebrews 5:7-9 tells us: “Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.”

          Just as Christ overcame by denying self and taking up His cross, in submission to the Father’s will, so must we do the same. In fact, in Matthew 8:38 Jesus said: “he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.” Only through self-denial will we obtain victory. “He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it” (Matthew 10:39).

          The answer to the second question is connected to the first. Only God’s ways are perfect. Isaiah 55:6-9 says: “Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.”

          When God tells us something is a sin, whether it be homosexuality, adultery, stealing, coveting, any form of selfishness, etc., we must forsake it. It will not be easy. However, the more we cling to sin–cherish it, pet it, think about it, live in it–the harder it will be to forsake it. If we persist in wickedness, God will allow our choice and the consequences that come with it. “Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone” (Hosea 4:17).

          But that is not God’s desire for us. Paul tells us in Ephesians 2:10: “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” Speaking though the Prophet Ezekiel God pleads: “Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die?”

          Maranatha!

          • http://verbus.dreamhosters.com OneBreadOneBody

            A very cogent and carefully reasoned discussion of the issue. I notice that you rightly distinguish the carnal desires of the heart to which, as fallen mankind, we are all subject, from the acts which are inherently sinful. It is only by the grace of God and the by the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit that we are enabled to “take up our cross” and deny the power of the flesh that tempts us to sin. That he has sexual attraction to other men is not what makes him “gay.” It was his succumbing to the temptation and acting upon it that made him so. And the greater sin (in my eyes, although I have no authority to judge) was in abandoning his family. As I have stated elsewhere in this thread, he always had the choice of whether or not to act on these feelings. He chose to succumb, and worse yet, by “celebrating” his sexual behavior gives greater credence to the lie that we are defined by our carnal nature. Paul himself struggled daily with this battle between the flesh and the spirit. But being a Christian doesn’t mean our flesh never attempts to draw us away from God, but rather that we have been given the means to rebuke our flesh and follow Him.

            God bless you for taking the time and thought to write your response.

          • Ron Duncan

            I’m glad you get this… we have gotten so caught up in the world’s argument about being “born that way” that we have been blinded to the most important thing. We are “born that way” because we are born in sin. That’s why we must be “born again.” It’s why we must “deny ourselves,” pick up our cross, and follow after Him. Matthew 16:24

        • Peter Leh

          “Why? Explain the part about biological determinism sanctioning moral
          behavior. Does that go for ppl who are born attracted to children or
          with violent desires? Or lazy.”

          good point.

          Biological immutability does not override responsibility.

          the chilling revelation is what jesus classifies as sin.. not just the act but the THOUGHT.

          if SSA is immutable then the SSA is a continuous thought. If SSA is a thought the according to Jesus is a sin. A sin that cannot be stopped any more that my opposite sex attraction. Therefore god made them that way (formed them in the womb) and created them to go to hell.

          Chilling

          • John Stevens

            “the chilling revelation is what jesus classifies as sin.. not just the act but the THOUGHT.”

            By that, Jesus is referring to reveling in, enjoying or indulging in the fantasies or thoughts of committing evil . . . he is not referring to temptations.

            To experience temptation is not a sin. To give in to that temptation by fantasizing about doing the evil one is tempted by, that is a sin.

            If one it tempted to strangle a particularly nasty and inept barista, but pushes that temptation away, no sin. If one spends the next ten minutes fantasizing about doing horrible things to that person, that is a sin.

          • Peter Leh

            is SSA sin?

          • Ron Duncan

            If a man lusts after a woman in his heart, but doesn’t act on it – then according to Jesus, has the man sinned, or not? Hint: Matthew 5:28.

            Immutability is man’s “wisdom” and cannot override God’s Word. Jesus did not sin by experiencing temptation in the desert because he didn’t seek to fantasize or have his thoughts dwell on them, but instead, answered those temptations with scripture.

            Peter, it comes down to how you define SSA. If it’s a temptation alone, then it’s not. If it’s fantasized about and occupies a person’s thoughts, then it is. There is a difference between the two.

          • Peter Leh

            “”Immutability is man’s “wisdom” and cannot override God’s Word. ”

            understand the point .. however i think that it an excuse. Immutability is a law of nature. god established the law of nature.

            Immutability meaning “unable to change” syn.: fixed, established, permanent, established.

            so the attraction to the same sex will always be there.

            so to me it is like god making michaelangelo they commanding him not to paint/sculpt/create

            But lucky us heterosexuals, eh? We get to fulfill our attractions the way god made us.

            But the way you god made you…. sorry. oh and try not to THINK about it that will send you to hell too. So would you like to be a christian and worship the god made you this way then slaps you with the other hand?

          • Ron Duncan

            Lucky heterosexuals? I’ve had problems with lust and fornication in the past, and in that regard, it’s equal in measure as homosexuality in being sexual immorality.

            Putting that aside, let’s assume you speak of fulfilling our attractions as holding out for marriage and doing it God’s way. Our lives are short compared to eternal life and Jesus said that we aren’t given over to marriage in heaven as it is. Sure, we are in the here and now, but we should have some perspective on it.

            I’d argue that God didn’t make us to sin, and I’d also argue that God isn’t so limited in power that He can’t bring that change about in our very nature. A God that is that powerless is no God at all. I’ve known people who were homosexuals who were able to come out of that, who repented of it, and did find love and attraction in the opposite sex for the first time in their lives after accepting Christ as their savior.

            Now I’m not claiming that this will be true for each and every individual, but it does lead me to believe that the immutability argument is specious. Even with that considered though, I cannot deny that Jesus said to “Deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow after Him.” (Matthew 16:24) This leads me to state that if one deals with SSA, they are called to deny themselves if they are to follow after Christ and for me, that’s the end of the argument, because at that point, He has spoken.

      • Coach

        When one identifies as being a Christian, they are professing that God has done a work in them. Christians practice righteousness, false converts practice sin.

        • Peter Leh

          we all practice sin to a certain extent until our earthly bodies are glorified.

          where I see the theological elephant is jesus clarification of sin. jesus say if you THINK it in your heart it is sin.

          IF SSA turn out to be immutable… there is truly no hope as you can’t help your attraction (ie thoughts) therefore god formed you in the womb to go to hell.

          sobering thought indeed

          • Jeanette Victoria ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Chosen BEHAVIOR is not immutable. God and Christ has made abundantly clear sex outside of holly matrimony between a man and a woman is sin.

          • Peter Leh

            “Chosen BEHAVIOR is not immutable”

            agree… IF chosen.

          • Jeanette Victoria ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Behavior is always a choice

          • danc51

            Correct, that’s why we judge it in a court of law.

          • Guest

            Homosexuality is a lie

          • hytre64

            You can always CHOOSE your behaviors.

          • hytre64

            Do you allow your attraction to be a fleeting thought, quickly taken captive (2 Cor 10:5), or do you choose to dwell on the attraction and play with the sin in your mind? That is the same for every type of attraction to sin – first, you conceive of the action in your heart (playing around with sin in your mind) and THEN you proceed to perform it.

            Mark 7:20-22 And He was saying, “That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness.”

          • danc51

            Well put.

          • Ken Faivor

            You need to go into the Word more.

            Eph 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye no longer walk as the Gentiles also walk, in the vanity of their mind,

            Eph 4:18 being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart;
            Eph 4:19 who being past feeling gave themselves up to lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
            Eph 4:20 But ye did not so learn Christ;
            Eph 4:21 if so be that ye heard him, and were taught in him, even as truth is in Jesus:
            Eph 4:22 that ye put away, as concerning your former manner of life, the old man, that waxeth corrupt after the lusts of deceit;
            Eph 4:23 and that ye be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
            Eph 4:24 and put on the new man, that after God hath been created in righteousness and holiness of truth.

            Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service.
            Rom 12:2 And be not fashioned according to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, and ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

          • Peter Leh

            thanks ken

          • Mark Gruben

            Verily, ye speaketh in abundance that which be as the dung of swine. Thine heart brims with such dung; yea, thy very lips be as a fountain which pours forth its malodorous stench upon the multitudes of thy brethren. Amen.

          • hytre64

            Even a fool, when he keeps silent, is considered wise;
            When he closes his lips, he is considered prudent.
            – Prov 17:28

            It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. – Mark Twain

          • danc51

            ‘jesus say if you THINK it in your heart it is sin.’

            That depends on what you’re thinking. I can look at an attractive woman and admire her beauty without undressing her and putting her in all kinds of sexual positions in my head. Christ was very clear, ‘if you look upon a woman to LUST after her in your heart’. The key word is ‘lust’, not look. There is a difference between looking and lusting. The latter is very sexual and takes no interest in the well being or person hood of the ‘object’ it is lusting after.

          • Peter Leh

            SSA does not have to have lust involved.. it could.. but the question is, is SSA a sin?

          • danc51

            but the question is, is SSA a sin?

            No, being attracted to the same sex is not sin, it’s temptation. When you give in to that attraction and have gay sex, then you’ve crossed the line. Gay sex, under any circumstances, is sin. Any sexual activity out side of hetero marriage is sin. The sexual union of man and woman is the only union God recognizes and respects.

          • Gary Exelby

            SSA is NOT immutable; the idea is contradicted — and blasted — in numerous places in the Bible. Much more importantly, however, God WOULD NOT form someone in the womb to go to hell:
            I Timothy 2:3-4 says: “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
            II Peter 3:9 says: “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count
            slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should
            perish,BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE [my emphasis].”
            Ezekiel 18:23 says: “Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? says the Sovereign
            LORD. Of course not! I want them to turn from their wicked ways and
            live.”
            Ezekiel 18:32 says: “For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!”
            Ezekiel 33:11 says: ”
            Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God,
            I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn
            from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for
            why will you die, O house of Israel?”
            Any questions?

        • Charles White

          This is true. and we as true Christians can be aware of this because the book of Matthew says we will know them by their fruit. Its not a form of judging when a Christian points out an act or event that is anti-scripture. 1 John 2:19 tells us that the one who seems to abandon the faith never really was saved to begin with.

      • Slidellman4life

        The fact God calls it a sin is enough.

        • Peter Leh

          not if it is immutable. if immutable then god made them that way.

          IF so and and am just saying IF… we christians are really in trouble for how we have treated our neighbor spiritually.
          We are already in trouble civilly

          • Slidellman4life

            It is not immutable because God says is a sin.

            That’s not subject to debate.

          • [email protected]

            well it is in fact immutable which means that either A: people can have that sexual orientation and still be called to lifelong celibacy or B: if Immutability means that it is not a sin then you will need to come to terms with it not being a sin. but if facts and ideology do not match then it is not the facts that should be rejected.

          • Slidellman4life

            As I said, it is not subject to debate. God said homosexuality is a sin. That settles it.

            As an aside, I could not hope but notice three things about you:

            1) You are a very staunch defender of homosexuality.

            2) You rationalize the want to sexually abuse children.

            3) You say you are a Christian.

            I would say with the first two things in mind you would not know Jesus Christ if He came up behind you and tapped you on the shoulder.

            I would also say I have zero tolerance for anyone who would want to hurt a child, so when I saw this posted at JoeMyGod I became quite concerned:

            age of consent reform does NOT equal pedophilia. the age of consent should be lowered from what it is now but moving the age of consent from 18 to say 16 or 14 is not pedophilia. this is the wrong response that we so often see from the other side but it is fully wrong. Pedophilia involves sex with pre-pubescent children, not post pubescent minors who should have sexual autonomy.

            No. “Age of consent reform” is a movement designed to legalize the sexual abuse of children, period, end of the hunt. It’s no coincidence NAMBLA has long been a proponent of this.

            People like you make me physically ill. Go back to JoeMyGod and leave us alone.

          • [email protected]

            I in no way rationalize the want to sexually abuse children. a 16 year old is not a child, they are an adolescent. thus the question is not if children should have sex, they should not, but if adolescents should be able to consent to sex or not. now consider this, in jurisdictions where the age of consent is as high as 18 we are telling people that they are old enough to be tried as an adult, old enough to join the military, old enough to drive a car, old enough to have a job, and old enough to pick which college they want to go to or if they want to go to college, old enough to do all of that before they are old enough to consent to sex. that seems to be a very strange ordering indeed. it is for that reason that in most of the developed world, including in a majority of US states, the age of consent is 16. so not about sexually abusing kids, that is a terrible thing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but rather age of consent reform is important in areas where it has been set to high.

            and yes I am a defending of gay rights and homosexuality being a sin and I know that many Christians would disagree however I would note that Christians disagree on a long list of theological issues. to cite just one example Christians disagree over if the word day in the creation account is referring to a 24 hour period which would then lead us to a very young earth or to a longer period of time which would be consistent with what the science says. this disagreement does not mean that one side is christian and the other is not. only one side is right and the same is true here, but a christian can be wrong about what the bible says on a certain issue and still be a christian.

          • Ken Faivor

            “I would note that Christians disagree on a long list of theological issues”
            ………………………………………………….

            This is doctrinal issues, not moral issues. If a man is not willing to repent of homosexuality, he can not be a Christian. The command is to cast such a one out of the Church.

          • [email protected]

            where homosexuality is a sin is also a doctrinal issue. in either case it is a disagreement over what the bible says on the topic at hand. If those who say it is not a sin are right then the bible does not say it is a sin and thus it is not something they would need to turn from.

            but let me ask you, suppose going to a football game on Sunday was a sin yet a man did this and never repented of it becasue he did not think it was a sin. could he be a christian or not? do we need to admit we are sinners or do we need to correctly identify everything in our life that is a sin as such in order to be saved?

          • Ken Faivor

            All illicit sexual acts are moral sins, and the instructions to the Church is clear. Show them the door until they are ready to repent. Failure to do so and the whole Church will be infected.

            1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not even among the Gentiles, that one of you hath his father’s wife.
            1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and did not rather mourn, that he that had done this deed might be taken away from among you.
            1Co 5:3 For I verily, being absent in body but present in spirit, have already as though I were present judged him that hath so wrought this thing,
            1Co 5:4 in the name of our Lord Jesus, ye being gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
            1Co 5:5 to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
            1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
            1Co 5:7 Purge out the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, even as ye are unleavened. For our passover also hath been sacrificed, even Christ:
            1Co 5:8 wherefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
            1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in my epistle to have no company with fornicators;
            1Co 5:10 not at all meaning with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous and extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world:
            1Co 5:11 but as it is, I wrote unto you not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no, not to eat.
            1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging them that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within?
            1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Put away the wicked man from among yourselves.

          • [email protected]

            inclusion of unrepentant sinners in the church is not the same question as the salvation of someone who disagrees over if something is a sin or not. if someone knows they are in sin and are unrepentant then inclusion in the church body can harm it. on the other hand if there is a disagreement of if something is a sin or not there is not willful disobedience but rather a disagreement over what the scripture says. now in that case it may still impact church involvement but it does not impact salvation.

          • Ken Faivor

            Now Bill, I know you can read, and I know you have been around Christians long enough to have The Bible verses quoted to you. You are attempting, in my opinion, to hang on to a part of the old man that you are supposed to be reckoning dead.

            Rom_6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

            Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

            2Co 5:17 Wherefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature: the old things are passed away; behold, they are become new.

            Col 3:9 lie not one to another; seeing that ye have put off the old man with his doings,
            Col 3:10 and have put on the new man, that is being renewed unto knowledge after the image of him that created him:

          • [email protected]

            No becasue again I do not see it as sin and thus not something that needs to be turned from. this is not hanging on to something but rather a disagreement about what the verses say. I agree with everything you are posting about what happens when one follows Christ and turning from sin, it is simply a matter of me not seeing that as applying to homosexuality. so then that is the question and the conversation, is it a sin. but if you say this is what the approach should be if you assume it is a sin then that skips over the debate.

          • Mark Gruben

            I was raised to believe that Christians are called upon to heal the afflicted, not cast them out. But fine – do remind the last person left in your church to turn out the lights. I daresay it will be right soon.

          • Ken Faivor

            For those not willing to repent, they will be judged. I’m sorry

            Jer 51:9 We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country; for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies.

            Eze 47:11 But the miry places thereof, and the marshes thereof, shall not be healed; they shall be given up to salt.

          • hytre64

            MT 18:15-17 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. “

            We still love them, after going through the steps that Jesus told us, we are not to treat them as fellow believers, but rather as those still in need of being saved.

            Paul cast a someone what claimed to be a believer from the local church, because they were unrepentant for their publicly known sins, and Paul wanted them to be able to repent and not reject Jesus.

          • danc51

            Where is this disagreement? What part of ‘man shall not lie with mankind as with womankind, IT IS AN ABOMINATION.’ is in question? It seems pretty clear, to me. Very basic and simple to understand. Where are all the pro gay bible texts? Do you know any? I don’t. The only reason there is disagreement over this is because men want to find any excuse to follow their hearts.

          • [email protected]

            so there you are citing Leviticus. However levitical law does not apply to Christians today. it was established for a very particular time and place in Jewish history and for the Jewish people but it was not meant to be applied to Christians and picking and choosing what to use and what not to use from the levitical law is not sound theology or practice either. thus if a case is to be made that homosexuality is a sin it must be done without using leviticus.

            so that was actually a perfect example, you said it seems pretty clear but then when taking another look at the texts you are using we see that it can not be used in that way. so what may look to be clear may not mean what you thought it did after second look.

          • Ron Duncan

            So bill, does that mean that we can have a bonfire, do some child sacrifice to Molech and then have a donkey show after? Because those surrounding passages in Leviticus mention those very same things.

            Did you know that in those same passages of Leviticus, God said he was judging the nations surrounding Israel for conducting those practices, and that the Israelites were to to abstain from engaging from those behaviors? This means it was a universal morality at that point. Those other nations didn’t even have “the Law” which means that what they were doing was considered such an abomination, that those peoples had no excuse.

            As someone stated earlier, you need to do a proper exegesis here and look at the whole text.

          • [email protected]

            no it does not mean that everything that was prohibited under levitical law is now allowed but rather we should turn to outside of levitical law to make that judgement. looking outside of levitical law we can still clearly see that the worship of false gods is wrong and must not be done.

            and yes part of the levitical law did exist to set the Jewish people apart from the surrounding nations but that does not mean that all the restrictions therein were part of a universal law. if that were true then Christians today would equaly be judged for any number of violations of the levitical law.

          • Ron Duncan

            Technically, it is looking outside of levitical law specifically because they didn’t have “The Law” and God still judged those nations for it. It’s like telling somebody not to rape someone, or not to murder someone and then they use as the defense that nobody ever told them not to do it. That’s why it’s universal – because God was judging those nations because they engaged in those activities.

            There are bible verses that specifically state that they were there for the Jews to set them apart from other nations, especially those that dealt with dietary laws and not having clothing of mixed fibers. That’s why there were penalties for “being unclean,” and what was needed to do to fix that, and were not referred to as being an abomination. Those verses indicate that while the surrounding gentile nations were doing things, such as eating pork – was directed towards the Jews to contrast them from the surrounding nations, unlike the others.

            The verses regarding that portion of Leviticus are clear. The penalty for engaging in those cases was death.

          • [email protected]

            again using that logic God was also judging the nations becasue they were unclean thus the standards of cleanliness were also universal and thus they also apply to us today. Much of the laws were there to set the Jewish people apart from the nations, we both agree on this point. this does not mean that everything on which they were set apart on becomes a universal standard which can then be applied to us today. I would say that the prohibition on any sexual action outside of a man and a woman in marriage was also something that was set in place to set them aside from the nations.

            secondly yes, these other standards were also referred to using the word abomination. Leviticus 11 10-12: 10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

            11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

            12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

            so if the standard for what we keep vs what no longer applies is the use of the word abomination then the prohibition on shrimp still stands. also on the note on the death penalty would you say it still stands or no? if not how can you say that the moral condemnation from the verse still stands but the ordered penalty does not?

          • danc51

            However levitical law does not apply to Christians today.

            Yes, they do. The only thing that we throw out of the Levitical laws are the ceremonies tied to the Sanctuary. If you do away with the sexual laws of Leviticus, which are not tied to any ceremony of the Sanctuary, then you leave Christianity with no specific prohibition against incest or bestiality. They are found nowhere else in scripture. Paul makes it very clear in Romans 1 that homosexuality is against nature, vile (another word for disgusting) and the consequence of unbelief and is a practice that will lead to perdition. There are absolutely no positive texts for homosexuality in any form anywhere in scripture.

          • [email protected]

            Thankfully the christian sexual ethic exists outside of Levitcus and thus we can still know that these things are wrong without turning to levitical law. for incest we can turn to I Corinthians 5 and bestiality would always be outside of marriage.

            Next lets look at Romans 1. That part of Romans 1 is referring to temple prostitution and sex orgies as an example of depravity that went along with falling away from Him. during these participants would have sex with anyone, including people of the same sex. so this was not homosexuality but rather complete disregard for any form of restraint on sex to the point of just having sex with anyone without regard for any limitation.

            This is clear when you look at the context of the passage. the passage is talking about those who turn form Him to worship false gods and then gives the example of the temple prostitution and sex orgies as an example of what follows from turning away from God and worshiping the created instead of the creator. so no, the passage should not be used as a blanket condemnation of homosexuality.

          • danc51

            ‘for incest we can turn to I Corinthians 5’

            This chapter only deals with a man sleeping with his step mother. I could see incestphiles shooting all kinds of holes in this.

            ‘Bestiality would always be outside of marriage.’

            You really don’t understand what you’re up against, do you? The argument would be made that the the bible does not condemn bestiality outright. Saying it’s outside of marriage is ok when you’re preaching to the choir but that’s about it. Any argument you make for homosexuality, you can make for bestiality.

            referring to temple prostitution and sex orgies as an example of depravity

            Really? I’m having a hard time finding that context? Just where does Paul begin to talk about temple prostitution? Sounds to me like he’s condemning homosexual activity in general. After all, Paul took very seriously the writings of the Old Testament. His books are littered with dozens of quotes from the Old Testament.

            for any form of restraint on sex to the point of just having sex with anyone without regard for any limitation.

            ‘Because homosexuality is about restraint and not having sex with just anyone without regard for limitation’, said no homosexual ever. If the gay community is known for anything, especially the male side, it’s for their abandon of any sexual limitations and even common sense. They pass out condoms and candy at youth gay rallies, Mr. Bill. It’s all about sex. Don’t be so naive.

            ‘then gives the example of the temple prostitution and sex orgies as an example’

            I’m having a hard time finding the part about ‘temple prostitution’. That wouldn’t happen to be a meaning you just sort of forced in there, would it?

            ‘so no, the passage should not be used as a blanket condemnation of homosexuality.’

            So your premise is that God has positive feelings towards homosexuality? That gay is ok with God. That He blesses such unions? You are off your rocker, Bro. That is a completely foreign gospel.

          • lizk

            it also stated in the New Testament. And besides All scripture is valid in our time, they are an example to us. Besides the new Testament is from the old testament and God does say who will be not be going to heaven. The devil really likes it because people twist the scriptures and believe a lie.

          • Todd Ewing

            You are right, we are all sinners, whether gay or straight, or any other multitude of sins we struggle with, public and private. The issue however, is whether or not a person has truly repented of sin. If they haven’t then no they are not believers. It is the difference between the repentance of David vs. Saul. In the end what all of us need is Jesus, the gospel, and the grace that is offered in Him!! When a pastor strays and has an affair, he will be removed from office, or at least he should be. If he does not repent then eventually he will be excommunicated and barred from the sacraments. If one day he repents he can be restored and should be.
            Being gay is an affront to Scripture, and the image of God created in man, and thus it has to be dealt with just like any other sexual sin. But like I said the gay man needs Jesus, he needs love and compassion, not PC acceptance. But as Christians if we do love those around us we are not living out the great commission.

          • lizk

            God also said I will put My Spirit in you to cause you to walk in all my ways, it is not by our strength but by God’s strength. En the Ne Testament it says who do no not go to heaven all we have to is look back as how God dealt with sin, look at Sodom and Gomorrah and when Noah preached for 120 yrs and when He (God) shut the door of the ark. Probation was closed and they perished in the flood.

          • Mark Gruben

            Fine. You, and all the hypocrites, and the haters, and the holier-than-thou can attend your church and decide amongst yourselves who shall cast the first stone. Church-going is on the decline because of such hypocrisy and hatred. But we who are outcast don’t hate you…..we feel sorry for you.

          • Ken Faivor

            Luk 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
            Luk 23:29 For behold, the days are coming, in which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the breasts that never gave suck.
            Luk 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
            Luk 23:31 For if they do these things in the green tree, what shall be done in the dry?

          • Freethinker02

            Right on, Mark. The church should just shut up and never tell anyone that any behavior is wrong. Just let people do whatever they want to do. No judgement. No standards. No right and wrong. Just sway side to side and sing kumbaya. Abortion? Just do it. Sexual promiscuity…why not? Cheat on your wife? Sure! Drunkness…you bet! In fact, I think we should take every proscription in every religious text and do the exact opposite. That’s real acceptance.

            (Why do you expect organizations to bend to YOUR behaviors instead of the other way around?)

          • lizk

            then your saying as the devils words “Do as thou wilt”.The devil knows he has a short time and he loves it when you go with his words, for he is the price of this world and all who follow him will die. For God is preparing a lake of fire for the devil and his minions all all who cling to the world. We are to bring our flesh under our control with the help of the Holy Spirit what God calls sin is sin.

          • Freethinker02

            My desire to be (heterosexually) promiscuous is immutable. Should I participate in the behavior merely because it’s immutable?

            Would your god bless me for gleefully participating in any immutable, consensual behavior?

          • [email protected]

            No one should not participate in something just becasue it is a naturally occurring desire not is that what I am saying. if it is indeed a sin to act on it then gay people while they will remain homosexual must turn to celibacy. if it is not a sin then it can be engaged in. so that is not a question at that point about the nature of homosexuality but rather what gay people who are Christians can do while staying true to a christian sexual ethic.

          • Steve Preston

            Agreed.

          • Ron Duncan

            It’s never been proven to be immutable and God isn’t so powerless that he can’t change a person’s nature when they are born again. It may be “immutable” by man’s ways, but I reject man’s “wisdom” when God’s Word says otherwise. Now, that doesn’t mean one won’t struggle, because God’s Word also calls us to “deny ourselves,” and that means there is a nature there to “deny,” but embracing it isn’t denial.

          • [email protected]

            I know that God is not powerless but but having faith in what God can do does not mean one must believe claims that God will do something that He never said he would do. even if acting on homosexuality is a sin God never said that the sexual orientation itself is a sin nor did he ever say that he would remove it from people. so I have faith in God, and his power, but in what he says he will do.

            also I would just note that if homosexuality has not been shown to be immutable then neither has heterosexuality yet heterosexuals would agree that sexual orientation is not something that can just change.

          • Ron Duncan

            “Sexual orientation” is language that justifies sin, in my opinion. I believe that the sex drive is a very strong part of our nature and seeks fulfillment and satisfaction. I believe that sexuality can cultivated because it’s about self, not about the other person. This may be why there are higher instances of homosexuality during times in prison, which is well documented.

            This doesn’t mean one chooses or not – but it’s also irrelevant to my initial point. We are called to “deny” ourselves so it matters little if we choose it or not, but instead that God can transform us by the renewing of our minds, and so we should never be actively seeking to embrace what God has already established as being sin.

          • [email protected]

            Well whether or not it is a choice is important when the response to people who are gay is, well just stop choosing to be gay. It is important becasue it clarifies that the path if homosexuality is indeed a sin would be celibacy as the individual is still going to be homosexual even if they see acting on it as a sin. it is also important becasue it means that if the gay person chooses to be celibate and is asked why they can be free to come out and say that they are attracted to the same sex, that they are gay, but that they think it is a sin to act on that and thus have chosen celibacy. so with that in mind I would say that it is important to recognize sexual orientation for what it is and that it certainly can be done without justifying sin.

          • Gary Exelby

            Here we go again. God makes it VERY CLEAR in numerous passages that people MUST REPENT
            from what He calls sin. And He calls SSA sin. At the risk of repeating
            myself, God WOULD NOT form someone in the womb to go to hell:
            I
            Timothy 2:3-4 says: “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God
            our Savior; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the
            knowledge of the truth.”
            II Peter 3:9 says: “The Lord is not slack
            concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is
            longsuffering to us, not willing that any should
            perish,BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE [my emphasis].”
            Ezekiel
            18:23 says: “Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? says
            the Sovereign LORD. Of course not! I want them to TURN FROM THEIR WICKED
            WAYS AND LIVE [again, my emphasis].”
            Ezekiel 18:32 says: “For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. REPENT AND LIVE [ditto]!”
            Ezekiel
            33:11 says: “Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no
            pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his
            way and live; turn back, TURN BACK FROM YOUR EVIL WAYS, FOR WHY WILL YOU
            DIE [ditto], O house of Israel?”

          • [email protected]

            well we do live in a fallen world so if homosexuality is a sin then you could link it to that. but what we can not do is deny that homosexuality is a natural variation of human sexuality simply becasue we think it is a sin. either the idea that it is a sin can survive it being a natural variation of human sexuality or it can not. if it can not survive this and we know the bible to be true then we can also say with certainty that the bible does not in fact say that homosexuality is a sin.

          • Peter Leh

            “It is not immutable because God says is a sin.

            That’s not subject to debate.”

            It is if proven otherwise.

          • Slidellman4life

            Calling God a liar?

          • Guest

            A stark warning to those who have
            been swayed by those speaking loudly, convincingly, and incessantly
            from the entertainment, educational, political, and ‘fallen away’
            church pulpits today – calling those things ‘Good’ that God’s Word
            clearly says are wrong and calling those who simply believe and try
            to follow God’s Word ‘Evil’ . . .

            “WOE to those who call
            evil good, and good evil;

            who put darkness for light,
            and light for darkness;”

            (Isaiah 5:20) (“Woe” is a
            terrible curse or torment … in this life or in Hell)

            Many people don’t believe they
            will be judged after they die. Yet, the Bible is clear when
            it says …

            “And as it is appointed for men
            to die once,

            but AFTER this the
            judgment”

            (Hebrews 9:27)

          • danc51

            It won’t be. A person is no more destined to be gay than they are to an alcoholic. You have to take that first ‘drink’.

          • Peter Leh

            so one is not heterosexual until they have their first sex? Or have they always been heterosexual?

          • david

            Peter Leh it would be best for you to troll somewhere else. Heterosexual is not a word God used. That’s a (flawed by sin) human thing. However, God told the male and female of every species to “be fruitful and multiply.” To man(spirit in a dirt body) He said to “Have dominion over the earth and subdue it.” This not only speaks of our authority hear on earth but also control of our bring to a certain degree. Our earth suit is to come under submission to our spirit, which is the REAL man and if our spirit is born again through repentance (turning 180° from sin) and acceptance of Jesus’ work on the CROSS, making him the Lord of your life, then there’s no way one can be blatantly living this lifestyle and “professing” to truly love Jesus.

          • danc51

            ‘so one is not heterosexual until they have their first sex? Or have they always been heterosexual?’

            No, no one sins until they have sex outside of marriage, whether it be hetero or homo or whatever. We’re talking about sin, Mr. Leh. Not orientation. No abnormal orientation is sin until it is acted on.

          • UnlockingTheTruth

            I agree. But if we say for just a moment that maybe someone IS born gay. I mean we are all born sinners. I was born a liar, a selfish baby, born with a genetic code for a disease, etc. HOWEVER, when we become Christians, we put the old things away, we are new creatures. I struggle with lying. My momma told me I’d rather climb a tree to tell a lie that stand on the ground to tell the truth. She was right. Now at 53, it is still so easy in the flesh for me to tell a lie, over stupid stuff too. My point, we are all born sinners. If we give the LGBT’s that they were born that way, well they were born sinners. However, to become a Christian, they have the HOly Spirit within them to help them to take the way of escape provided so that they sin not – just like the rest of us. So if this dude can divorce is wife (A SIN PER GOD), leave his children (he did when he divorced his wife – he is no longer a daily, hourly force in the household – A SIN PER GOD) or have a relationship with a man (AN ABOMINATION TO GOD). If this guy really believes he was born gay and then can continually live a homosexual lifestyle without any bell-ringing from the Holy Spirit, he better check up and decide if he really was ever truly saved. Now if this guy believes he was born gay but was going to (with God’s help and strength) stay with his wife and children and put Christ in the center of the family & be the best husband and father he can be, then that would be okay as long as he abstained from homosexuality. Oh, well . . . just my two cents worth. The Bible (God’s Word to us) has said that there will be a great falling away . . . that is talking about people who said they were Christians . . . you had to be there to fall away. An atheist has nothing to fall from. God’s Word also said that a time will come when people will want their ears tickled. I guarantee someone in this guy’s life is tickling his ears about homosexuality. Now that he’s “come out,” he will be tickling other ears about the same thing. And yes, Yeshua hung out with sinners . . . but he transformed their lives and said to them, “Go, and sin no more!”

          • danc51

            If we give the LGBT’s that they were born that way, well they were born sinners.

            I have not problem with what you’ve written, but the LBGTQ does not see it your way. Their point is that because they are born ‘this way’, you are destined to be gay and therefore the only thing you can do is embrace your destiny. They don’t believe in sin. They believe that because God created them this way, He is pleased when they finally accept it. That is unacceptable theology.

          • UnlockingTheTruth

            danc51 . . . I agree. I understand the LGBTQ does not see it this way. It is because they (I am generalizing here . . . probably some do and are saved & live under restraint) are not saved! They do not understand that Yahweh is HOLY and that the subject of sin is so serious to Him that God the Son came to this earth, robed in a body of flesh to take on the judgement of spilled blood and death to atone for our sin. Oh, and there are alot of heterosexual’s that don’t understand this either. They have their own set of sins. That is serious stuff! God is not mocked! Not by my sin and not by their sin. We can pray for them, that God would remove the blinders that have been placed on their eyes by the god of this world so that they may see the Truth! Yes, believing that God is pleased when they accept and live out their sin is unacceptable theology!

          • danc51

            I agree with everything you’ve just written.

          • danc51

            But if we say for just a moment that maybe someone IS born gay.

            I have no problem with people being born with same sex attraction. That does exist. The problem is when they act on it. When LGBTQ tell us that they are born this way, it’s really a secret code for ‘I can’t help my actions, God can’t condemn me.’ That we know is not true. God has promised to work with man so that man is able to overcome all evil propensities, including same sex attraction, but the bible is very clear. Those who practice such sexuality, will be lost. There is no way around this.

          • UnlockingTheTruth

            I agree . . . I believe I expressed that same sentiment.

          • Mark Gruben

            God says no such thing. The Bible says it is a sin, but the Bible is the word of man, and not of God. God created man, and to criticize His work is to criticize Him. Dare you try?

          • Georgia Devine

            Try reading King James Version, it might help you. Your thinking just isn’t right.

          • lgray

            Except that God said the Bible is His word. You’re certainly free to choose not to believe that, but then you have no reason to believe in Him at all.
            2 Timothy 3:16
            16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness
            It’s also very strange to say that criticizing man is criticizing God. Man does all sorts of things that God criticizes and calls us to criticize as well. For example, embracing one’s genetic disposition to alcoholism instead of fighting it.

          • Todd Ewing

            Really? You say God created, but the only place you can get that is from the Bible. If it is just man’s word then how do you even know God exists, or creates anything? The Bible itself says that it is God’s word, 2 Timothy 3:16.

          • archaeologist

            since evolution and the big bang are certified man’s word alone, why are you accepting those ideas over the Bible?

          • Cheryl M

            So it’s OK to criticize His Word but not to “criticize” a person (meaning, I assume, to call someone’s action a sin)? That doesn’t make much sense. And all of us “criticize” actions we consider sin. Do you criticize murder? adultery? Then you are criticizing God’s work, by criticizing the sinful actions of someone He has made, by your own logic.

          • Guest

            Homosexuality is a lie .

          • Gary Exelby

            God makes it VERY CLEAR in numerous passages that people must repent from what He calls sin. And He calls SSA sin. At the risk of repeating myself, God WOULD NOT form someone in the womb to go to hell:
            I Timothy 2:3-4 says: “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
            II Peter 3:9 says: “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should
            perish,BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE [my emphasis].”
            Ezekiel 18:23 says: “Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? says the Sovereign LORD. Of course not! I want them to TURN FROM THEIR WICKED WAYS AND LIVE [again, my emphasis].”
            Ezekiel 18:32 says: “For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. REPENT AND LIVE [ditto]!”
            Ezekiel 33:11 says: “Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, TURN BACK FROM YOUR EVIL WAYS, FOR WHY WILL YOU DIE [ditto], O house of Israel?”

        • Mark Gruben

          God doesn’t call it a sin. The Bible does – and the Bible is the word of man. Not God.

          • Slidellman4life

            Go somewhere else if you want to argue over the Bible being God’s Word. You’ll be doing it all the way to hell.

          • http://www.dontneednostinkinwebsite.com/ Midlandr

            My aren’t you ignorant.

          • Georgia Devine

            That is a foolish statement Mark Gruben and sadly you are going to have to give account for it. The Bible is GOD’S WORD, not mans. 2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

          • Salt316

            A fool has said in his heart there is no god. Psalm 53:1 Jesus died for sinners to save them, not for the righteous. Sin is real, death is real, hell is real and Jesus is real and so is God and His Word. If sin does not exist, then why is the world so messed up? Why do people kill each other and lie, steal, and do mean things? Because of sin. Which is what the bible says. If the Bible was not real, and God was not real, and Jesus was not real, then sin would not be real, and there would be no such thing as punishment for criminals stealing, raping and murdering. Hello? If the Bible was not true, and all of the above, I would not be saved, set free, filled with the Holy Spirit and telling you sir, about Jesus Christ, because I was once an atheist. God is real, His Son is real and He really did die for your sins on the Cross. Believe on Jesus and be saved. Call on him today!

      • hytre64

        If the Dead can be raised, the blind can be made to see, the Deaf can hear, and the lame can walk – who are WE to limit the healing & miracles that God can do?

        In the mean-time, let us remember and imitate Paul in his weakness…

        2 Cor 9-10 And He (Jesus) has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

        • Peter Leh

          “who are WE to limit the healing & miracles that God can do?”

          i certainly do not.

          is SSA sin?

      • Ron Duncan

        Let me offer a counterpoint. We are born in sin due to the fall. We can take any sin and apply the immutability argument to it. We could all claim to be “born that way” it could be a propensity towards sexual sin, be it homosexuality, adultery, or fornication. It could also be a propensity towards violence, hatred, or anger. In that end, due to our fallen nature, that’s absolutely correct – we are born that way. That’s precisely why we must be “born again.” Jesus himself said that if we would come after him, we must “deny ourselves,” pick up our cross, and follow after Him. (Matthew 16:24) One cannot embrace sin and “deny self” in the struggle against sin. Anything else is self-justification.

        • Peter Leh

          Does being born again change that which is immutable? If god say no red heads allowed in heaven would we wonder why god made red heads? If it is proven red head are born that way?

          How much more then if SSA is a sin, jesus set the bar even high and say not only can you not ACT on the way i made you , you cannot THINK the way I made you. So know you must stop being a red head or you are going to hell

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            Wow,Peter Leh…I am absolutely astonished that you actually think that that’s a valid,cogent argument. I don’t know what your areas of expertise are, but CLEARLY Biblical exegesis and hermeneutics is NOT one of them,LOL!

      • http://www.dontneednostinkinwebsite.com/ Midlandr

        No, not really. God STILL did not make him choose to live in sin, despite knowing so. Alcoholism requires abstinence and acknowledging that SIN, seeking support from similar affectees and a “higher power”. Faggotry is evil, and outside of God’s desires.

      • Freethinker02

        My rampaging sexual attraction to women (I’m heterosexual) is immutable. I want to have consensual sex with every pretty girl I meet. It’s in my hormones. It’s in my brain. It’s in my DNA.

        Will your god approve of my having sex with every pretty girl I see just because I was born that way?

        Sheesh. This is why we outsiders laugh at modern christianity. It bends and sways in the social winds.

    • Guest

      God warns those who call
      themselves “Christian” yet deny and ignore His Word …

      “NOT everyone who says to Me
      (Jesus), ‘Lord, Lord,’ (calling themselves ‘Christian’)

      shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven …

      Many will say to Me in that Day (of Judgment),

      ‘Lord, Lord, have we not taught (prophesied) in your Name,

      cast out demons in Your Name,

      and done many wonders in Your Name?’ (These are active
      church members …)

      And then (at the Judgment),

      I (Jesus) will declare to them

      ‘I never knew you

      DEPART from Me (departing from Heaven and
      into Hell)

      you who practice lawlessness'”

      (Matthew 7:21-23)

      • Georgia Devine

        PREACH IT BROTHER!!!!!!

      • Salt316

        truth. amen. God have mercy on this man!

    • Guest

      Amen

  • Slidellman4life

    What a selfish, self-centered jerk. He upended the lives of his wife and kids so he could pursue his sexual perversion, and now he wants Christianity to be changed to suit him?

    Sorry, Trey, but Jesus did not die on the Cross so you could sodomize other men. Read your Bible (not Queen James but King James, the real McCoy), sit down and shut up.

    • Dyros

      Years ago a college professor said to my class, “In the beginning there was Adam and Eve…not Adam and Steve”. Set it straight for me in my younger days lol

    • Jalapeno

      I’d say that it’s more selfish to pretend to be someone you aren’t just because you can’t admit it to your family.

      I would be heartbroken if my husband spent years of our life pretending to be straight just because he didn’t want to be straight with me…that’s an extremely self-centred way to deal with it.

      • Slidellman4life

        So putting your family ahead of yourself is being selfish? On what freaking planet?

        • Jalapeno

          Sometimes…a persons family doesn’t WANT them to sit there and suffer for the sake of pretending like things are okay.

          • Slidellman4life

            Sometimes Barbra Freakin’ Streisand. The guy is a sphincter as well as any person who defends him.

          • Jalapeno

            I would be extremely unhappy if I found out my husband was just pretending to want to stay in our marriage just for the sake of me and our kids.

            Not everyone wants to live a lie.

          • Slidellman4life

            But you would be happy if your husband wanted to leave you and your kids because he wanted to sodomize other men?

            What the hell is the matter with you?

          • Jalapeno

            I would not be happy that he was gay.

            I would be MORE unhappy if I found out that he was pretending to be straight.

          • Slidellman4life

            That is because there is something wrong with you.

          • Jalapeno

            Not really.

            Some people are content to play pretend.

            Others want their spouse to be happy too.

            Obviously you’re okay with your spouse just pretending to want to be with you. I am not. Different people have different standards for their relationships.

          • Slidellman4life

            I am okay with people being normal and wanting to be normal. You are not.

          • Jalapeno

            The reality is that there is a married man who is gay and does not want to be in that relationship anymore.

            The choice is between having him come clean and see if his wife wants to stay married, or to hide it.

          • Slidellman4life

            The reality is that there is a married man who is gay and does not want to be in that relationship anymore.

            Because he is mentally and emotionally disturbed.

          • Ronald Carter

            No, Matthew. Homosexuals are not mentally or emotionally disturbed. It is a normal variation of human sexuality that has been there since day one.

          • Jalapeno

            Sure, sure.

            Does that change the situation though? Does that change the situation of a man pretending to be someone he isn’t and pretending like he isn’t attracted to men?

          • Ronald Carter

            You don’t have to call people names just because they disagree with you, Matthew.

          • Ronald Carter

            Who said anything about sodomy? What the hell is the matter with YOU? How do you know what goes on in the bedrooms of people you don’t know and haven’t met?

  • LadyFreeBird♥BlessedBeTheLord

    I feel very sad for his wife and children. I would not want to travel on their road. I pray for his wife and children.

    • TheBottomline4This

      The wife seems to be comfy with it. The kids sadly will grow up thinking it’s normal. The kids are who I feel sorry for.

      • LadyFreeBird♥BlessedBeTheLord

        I do feel sad for the kids .

        • TheBottomline4This

          Oh I know…just putting it out there 🙂

      • Josey

        at least he is saying they are comfy with it but who knows if that is the truth, years ago we lived in Germany in the military and I befriended a lady who told me her husband just left her and their 3 children after telling her he figured out he was a homosexual, she was devastated, never saw it coming, my heart broke for her.

        • TheBottomline4This

          Yes, it is terrible. The whole truth can’t be revealed in an interview. God knows and He will deal with this false believer and his choices.

  • The Last Trump

    “he meets with her and his two children once a week.”

    How Christian of him. Abandons his wife and children to be raised by another so that he can pursue and indulge in his lust for other men.

    “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel” 1 Timothy 5:8.

    • [email protected]

      It is indeed sad to see the marriage break up especially with kids in the picture however the blame for this lies fully with those who made him feel that he had to hide his sexual orientation and attempt to live a lie and pretend to be heterosexual. that pressure set him up for failure, it set his wife and kids up for disappointment and trouble, and it set his marriage up for failure. the way to prevent this was not for him to continue to live a lie but for him to not start living a lie in the first place. he should have felt that it was safe for him to come out as gay and be honest about that. So do i feel bad for all of them, yes. but is Pearson to blame here? no.

      • The Last Trump

        Blame everybody else, huh?
        How liberal of you.

        • [email protected]

          not at all blaming everyone else, rather very specifically placing the blame with those who caused the situation. Its not like he decided with no outside forces at play that he was going to deny that he was gay and try to live as a heterosexual, rather he felt that was his only choice and very clearly that set him up for failure. that he was not free to come out is what led to a relationship that was built on a lie and set up for failure.

          • Ronald Carter

            Very well said. Bravo.

          • Ken Faivor

            Your comments “seem” good. If it were not for the fact that homoseuality is moraly wrong.

          • Ronald Carter

            Only if you belong to a backwards religion.

          • [email protected]

            well thanks and perhaps in that case it is time to take a closer look at the assumption that homosexuality is morally wrong. I know that is a lot to re-examine however I think that the end result is one that is more consistent and less problematic then the end result of the current assumptions. there are a number of resources available that look at the relevant scriptures and come to the conclusion that they do not offer a blanket ban on homosexuality. I would be happy to point to any of those or dive into any specific questions or verses.

          • Ken Faivor

            It’s morally wrong the same way beastiality is moraly wrong. Or can’t you see that either?

          • Ronald Carter

            No, because bestiality involves the abuse of an animal who cannot consent. Homosexuality is consensual and hurts no one.

          • Ken Faivor

            The hurt will come Ronald.

          • Ronald Carter

            It hasn’t so far.

          • Ken Faivor

            Ecc_8:11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

          • Peter Leh

            we christians should probably jettison that argument. it is intellectually vacant

          • [email protected]

            If homosexuality is morally wrong then you should be able to make that case while talking about homosexuality. if instead you need to rely on comparing it to other things like bestiality you are relying on creating links where none exist. beyond that it is needlessly inflammatory, homosexuality is not at all the same as bestiality and the comparison only serves to denigrate gay people. so please, lets continue the conversation without such comparisons.

          • DoodyDoo

            he caused the situation…by His own sin

          • [email protected]

            He did not chose to be gay, rather that is just the natural sexual orientation he has. nor did he chose to be told that he must stay in the closet or try to be heterosexual. so no, he did not cause the situation, rather like others he found himself in a mixed orientation marriage as a direct result of an environment which prevented him from feeling that it was safe to come out as gay until now.

          • Slidellman4life

            Again, drop the “born that way” nonsense.

          • [email protected]

            I responded on this issue in the other responses so I will defer on this one to those.

      • http://verbus.dreamhosters.com OneBreadOneBody

        I agree that it’s not about blame. But Christians who experiences sexual attraction to those of the same sex have an option available to them that worldly people don’t: see it as a call to chastity. Sexual activity is not essential to life or even to happiness. He has an obligation to support his family and especially to raise his children. He can stop “living a lie” without having to abandon them to pursue his sexual proclivities. And “hanging out” one day a week is not being a father.

        • [email protected]

          a good point and if I knew him I would say the same thing to him. it is quite different to give advice before the relationship as opposed to once one is already in place. my comments here are more to say, lets stop this kind of situation from happening in the first place as opposed to, what should he have done given that the relationship was already in place. thanks.

          • http://verbus.dreamhosters.com OneBreadOneBody

            I agree insofar as our culture and the Church has mishandled homosexual attraction so poorly. During the sexual revolution, the culture became more and more convinced that unfettered sexual expression was not only healthy but the highest good as well. The Church should have had the courage to say that a person who struggled with these feelings could be free to admit them and still live a sexually pure life. Sadly, most Christians continued to see homosexuality as a sin that could be easily repented of and made no attempt to actually understand what gay people were dealing with.

            Many, if not most, adults have sexual desires that they choose not to indulge and it can be the same way with same-sex attraction. Paul thought that living a life unencumbered by a wife and family was preferable in spreading the Gospel, but likewise said that it was gift not given to everyone. Those who have these feelings should see them not only as a struggle but possibly as a charism as well. The tragedy is that he married and had children not knowing that there might have been a higher calling for him.

          • [email protected]

            thank you for your comments. Personally I disagree as far as homosexuality being a sin however I think that if indeed it is a sin you are spot on in terms of how it should be handled. It would be important to draw a distinction between the orientation and acting on it and it would be important for people to mention their sexual orientation when explaining why they chose to be celibate.

          • http://verbus.dreamhosters.com OneBreadOneBody

            Exactly. If someone chooses celibacy as their response to same-sex attraction, they ought to be open about it to give hope to others struggling with it. And I don’t mean to imply that everyone who has these feelings is “struggling.” But in many cases (like this one) the person doesn’t want them. Wouldn’t it be better to have more than one response to unwanted same-sex attraction?

          • Ken Faivor

            Salvation from sin does not come from your willpower not to sin. It come from a supernatural change of nature. Man’s willpower is a work of the flesh……It will always fail eventually.

          • Ken Faivor

            Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: FOR IT IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION TO EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

          • http://verbus.dreamhosters.com OneBreadOneBody

            I don’t think what I said had anything to do with salvation. I agree that a fleshly determination not to sin is likely to fail. But here I am talking about a Christian who relies on the Holy Spirit to enable him to lead a chaste life despite his proclivities.

          • Ken Faivor

            Salvation is Christ in you, and you cannot get His nature, character and authority through your own power. If you could, you would go to heaven by your own self efforts, and that is salvation by works. Now if Christ’s nature being wrought in you, your proclivities are being transformed to the same the same proclivities as His. In other words, the desire to sin is gone. Your are free from sin just as the Bible teaches.

            Php 2:13 for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.

            Rom_12:2 And be not fashioned according to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, and ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

            2Co_3:18 But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.

            Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto sanctification, and the end eternal life.

            So we are promised to be made free from sin, and He does it by changing us into His image, so that we no longer need a law and willpower to keep us in line, we do it quite naturally, just like He does.

            Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.

          • http://verbus.dreamhosters.com OneBreadOneBody

            I quote you:
            ” Now if Christ’s nature being wrought in you, your proclivities are being transformed to the same the same proclivities as His.”

            Your argument is thus, Jesus had no sinful desires (proclivities), therefore He never suffered temptation. This is false. If I may be allowed to proof-text back at you:

            For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15 KJV

          • Ken Faivor

            Jesus did not have a fallen nature, as He had no earthly father to inherit it from. All thing was brought before him, but His desire was not for them. His desire was that of His Father.

            Exo_34:7 keeping lovingkindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin; and that will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation.

            His Father was not of this world but was the Holy Spirit, there was no inherited iniquity, no inherited fallen nature.

            Now here is the good news!……….ready?

            If we are born again or born from above we too have what He has….a Heavenly Father and we inherit no curse from the fallen nature because we have no fallen nature by faith. You like it? You believe it? You can have it!

            Rom_1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

            Rom 8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among MANY BRETHREN:
            Rom 8:30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
            Rom 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?

          • http://verbus.dreamhosters.com OneBreadOneBody

            Jesus did not have a fallen nature and no one has suggested He did. But He did absolutely experience human temptation. Scripture is clear on that.

            As for this:

            “Now here is the good news!……….ready?”

            Really? What arrogance.

          • Ken Faivor

            Arrogance in believing His Word…….Really?

          • http://verbus.dreamhosters.com OneBreadOneBody

            Arrogance in presuming to know the state of my soul.

          • Ken Faivor

            When did I do that?

          • Ken Faivor

            I think you need to examine the Word tempted in the Greek.

            G3985
            πειράζω
            peirazō
            pi-rad’-zo
            From G3984; to test (objectively), that is, endeavor, scrutinize, entice, discipline: – assay, examine, go about, prove, tempt (-er), try.

          • http://verbus.dreamhosters.com OneBreadOneBody

            I bow before your erudition.

          • Ken Faivor

            I would rather you didn’t.

            Rev 19:10 And I fell down before his feet to worship him. And he saith unto me, See thou do it not: I am a fellow-servant with thee and with thy brethren that hold the testimony of Jesus: worship God; for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

        • Slidellman4life

          The lie is believing he is a homosexual in the first place.

          • http://verbus.dreamhosters.com OneBreadOneBody

            I agree that it is a lie to allow these feelings to define him, but the feelings themselves are real. This is a tragedy for all involved. He could have done it differently and not caused so much pain, but he is the product of a worldly culture obsessed with “celebrating” (Obama’s word) same-sex attraction.

          • Ronald Carter

            You know better than he does, huh?

          • Slidellman4life

            Troll. Flagged.

          • Ronald Carter

            That’s not working out so well for you lately, is it?
            Just because people disagree with you does not make them trolls, and if you have to censor your opposition, you lose the battle by default.

          • The Last Trump

            Huh.
            You don’t say.
            “Ron”.
            Boy, the hypocrisy is strong with this one!

          • Ronald Carter

            Coming from you, that means so much.

          • [email protected]

            so you are saying that he is not attracted to the same sex and not the other sex? are you saying that everyone is equally attracted to both men and women?

          • Ken Faivor

            Being a Christian, he should have been versed on how to deal with this lie of the devil.

            2Co 10:5 casting down imaginations, and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God, and bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ;

          • [email protected]

            so then I would ask the same two question of you to clarify your position. are you saying that he is not attracted to the same sex and is to the other sex? are you saying that everyone is equally attracted to both men and women?

          • Ken Faivor

            The homosexual nature is the fallen nature that belongs to the old man. When a man is born from above, a Christian reckons this old man dead, and he receives the sinless nature of our Lord. The feelings belong to the old man, they are as dead as the old man is. Cast them down with the authority Jesus gave. Resist the devil and he will…….what? He will flee.

          • [email protected]

            okay so when we propose a theory it must actually stand up to reality. the problem is that no, becoming a christian does not cause one to stop being gay nor are Christians immune from being gay. so then we say well is there a problem with the theory? there are a couple. first of all even if acting on homosexuality as a sin the underlying sexual orientation was not. thus even if one was to give up being sexually active and instead embrace celibacy they would still be attracted to the same sex. secondly it assumes that being saved removes the temptation to sin, however that temptation is still there and we are still affected by sin. thus someone could be saved and striving to not sin and still be tempted to do so. thus even if homosexuality is a sin it does not follow that the sexual orientation would change when one was saved.

          • Ken Faivor

            Obviously your religion is not based in faith, What is the Biblical definition of faith?

            Rom 4:16 For this cause it is of FAITH, that it may be according to GRACE; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
            Rom 4:17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, AND CALLETH THE THINGS THAT ARE NOT, AS THOUGH THEY WERE.

            Heb_11:1 Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things NOT SEEN.
            Heb 11:2 For therein the elders had witness borne to them.
            Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds have been framed by the word of God, so that what is seen hath not been made out of things which appear.

            Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh within himself, so is he:

            Without faith can you please God?……..No.

            Heb 11:6 and without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing unto him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that seek after him.

            And if you live after the lusts of the flesh can you please God?…………No.

            Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
            Rom 8:6 For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace:
            Rom 8:7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:
            Rom 8:8 and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

            Can God make you holy?……..Yes.

            1Th 5:22 abstain from every form of evil.
            1Th 5:23 And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
            1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who will also do it.

          • [email protected]

            none of that in any way disagrees with or counters anything that I said before. I agree with what those verses are saying however none of them mean that becoming a christian changes ones sexual orientation from gay to straight nor does any of that say that Christians can not also have a sexual orientation that is attracted to the same sex. again if it is a sin to act on it, either in person or via lust, that does not then mean that simply having the sexual orientation is a sin. in the same way it would be wrong for an unmarried man to lust after women but that does not mean that heterosexuality is a sin.

          • John Stevens

            “that does not then mean that simply having the sexual orientation is a sin”

            Correct. SSA is not a sin, it is a grave disorder.

          • [email protected]

            no homosexuality is not a disorder, rather it is a natural and normal variation of human sexuality. you may think it is wrong but that does not mean it is a disorder and it is not listed as such by any of the relevant professional organisations that are qualified to classify it as such.

          • John Stevens

            “no homosexuality is not a disorder, rather it is a natural and normal variation of human sexuality.”

            No, it’s not, any more than objectophilia or pedophilia are “normal variations of human sexuality.”

            Same sex attraction is a grave disorder precisely because the subject experiences a disordered sexual attraction. It is possible that you are using “normal” in the statistical sense, but that it is normal for every society to have some rapists, does not make rape a normal variation of sexual congress.

            Of the five types of sexual disorder, disorders of sexual attraction are considered to be “the first” disorder precisely because it is this that “begins” or “is first” in the chronological ordering of sexual activity. One must be properly attracted to a viable mate in order for the activity to even initiate.

            A healthy form of sexual attraction is, by definition, that which adds to or aids in the success of the purpose of sex: reproduction. Being sexually attracted to objects, or children, or the wrong sex is obviously a disorder.

          • [email protected]

            so who’s definition of disorder are you using to label homosexuality as a disorder? there is no secular definition of sexual disorders which would state that homosexuality is a disorder because it does not lead to reproduction.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Disobedience to God’s instructions is SIN not thoughts or attractions. The enemy places bad thoughts and unnatural attractions in our minds all the time. Devil Vision and Un-Holy-wood assault our thoughts and place sexual ideas in our hearts and minds all the time, yet we are to put all thoughts & attractions under subjection to the Spirit of God and use HIS word to test those thoughts to see if they are wrong or right and whether we should act upon them.

          • [email protected]

            so your saying that there is no such thing as sexual orientation rather just the devil putting thoughts of same sex attraction into peoples head? In this case why does this happen to some people and not others? why are those people only exclusively given thoughts of same sex attraction? why are Christians not immune to these kinds of thoughts? if the thoughts are indeed just from the devil then why doesn’t prayer make them go away?

            all questions that need to be answered given your particular theory on the origin of homosexuality.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            The bible tells us that we are all born with a carnal nature and that parents are to teach their children the ways of God so that when they are old they will not depart from it. Most of sin comes from that sinful nature or yes thoughts via perverted media or yes demonic spirits. Which is why I have not owned a Devil vision in over 30 years or went to UN-Holy-wood productions.

            Sin is offered to everyone only the majority of people do not act upon homosexual sin because not only is it wrong according to God’s law but it’s a big big social no no. Yet those same people who may not act on homosexuality may act upon telling a lie or stealing or having sex with an animal or cheat on their spouse. All which are disobedient to God’s word.

            Sex is a very powerful thing it not only send out major endorphins to the brain but it also plays heavy on our emotions . Once a person acts upon a sexual behavior it is very hard to break that behavior. Therefore if a person which does not act upon any deviation of what God created will not have created in them something they will have a hard time breaking. Sexual behavior is not forced. We all decide who we choose to have sex with or even if we have sex.

            As to prayer making thoughts go away… Prayer is not meant to control your thoughts. Thoughts come and go and it is our job to line them up with the WORD of God and to either act upon them or not. Prayer is meant to draw you closer to God and to ask HIM for strength when you are having trouble obeying HIS word. HE will never force you to serve HIM therefore HE will never take away your thoughts and replace them with HIS. If we continue to obey our own thoughts, attracts and feelings, eventually HE will sear the conscience & give us over to the god we continue to serve… ourselves or the devil.

          • John Stevens

            “okay so when we propose a theory it must actually stand up to reality. the problem is that no, becoming a christian does not cause one to stop being gay nor are Christians immune from being gay.”

            Except there are, in fact, many examples of people being cured of “being gay.” Including one woman who literally “prayed the gay away.”

            That said, there is a difference between same sex attraction (SSA), and homosexuality. The Church recognizes that imperfect human beings can remain plagued by SSA. None the less, homosexuality is a mortal sin.

          • [email protected]

            as far as sexual orientation change efforts or SOCE this is what we do know.

            #1 it is a small and fringe effort practiced by very few and participated in by very few.
            #2 for those who have participated in SOCE the vast majority report that it did not work at all for them and failed to bring about any change.
            #3 for the minority who do report change most find that the change is only temporary and latter speak out agasint the practice. others admit that it helped them change their behavior but not the underlying sexual orientation.
            #4 this leaves us with a very very small handful who claim that it worked and did change their orientation. but out of this group nearly all work in the ex-gay industry in some way and this make their living off the claim that ex-gay therapy works.

            so even if those few stories of full change are believed the best case scenario is that it only works in a tiny percent of all cases. but given all the evidence agasint the practice and the high conflict of interest in the few cases we do have that claim it worked it is highly likely that it does not work at all. Again this brings us back to the point that if homosexuality is indeed a sin then it is the action, not the orientation. the orientation is a natural part of who people are, just like being heterosexual nor is it something that people can just go and change. (I tried both prayer and SOCE to stop being gay before coming to the realization that sexual orientation is just part of who people are and that SOCE is a fraud.

            secondly no, there is not a difference between SSA and Homosexuality, they are one and the same. SSA is what some in the church like to call homosexuality as to avoid referring to it as a sexual orientation but rather just “attractions” but it is the same thing. people who are primarily attracted to the same sex are homosexual. calling it SSA as opposed to homosexuality does not magically mean that they are not homosexual.

          • John Stevens

            Your entire reply is based on a single kind of attempt, and ignores other treatments, ones with a much higher success rate.

            You need to update your information.

            “so even if those few stories of full change are believed the best case scenario is that it only works in a tiny percent of all cases.”

            Yes, for the protocol you are discussing. But that’s how science works: you experiment, you learn, you reformulate your hypothesis, and experiment again. You are judging the entire concept as flawed because of one failed protocol. I don’t need to point out the error in that, do I?

            The much more successful protocols recently developed do not treat SSA as the root disorder, they treat it as a symptom of the true problem. In this way, they’ve made great progress in treatment. The same concept has been applied to treating those who suffer from gender dysphoria.

            “secondly no, there is not a difference between SSA and Homosexuality, they are one and the same.”

            No, they are not the same. The temptation to commit a sin, is not the same thing as committing the sin.

          • [email protected]

            SOCE is an umbrella term that includes many different approaches to change sexual orientation. if there is a program or effort that has the goal of changing ones sexual orientation then that falls under SOCE so no, I was not only referring to one approach?

            so which “more more successful protocols recently developed” are you referring to? is there a group, therapist, or program name you can reference for these new efforts you speak of?

            finally I was not talking about acting on homosexuality, rather I was talking about the sexual orientation. I 100% agree that the temptation to commit a sin is not the same as committing the sin and in the same way being homosexual is not the same thing as lusting after the same sex or engaging in sexual activity. so what I was saying was that Homosexuality and SSA are two different names for the same thing, namely the state of being primarily sexually attracted to the same sex.

          • John Stevens

            “SOCE is an umbrella term that includes many different approaches to change sexual orientation. if there is a program or effort that has the goal of changing ones sexual orientation then that falls under SOCE so no, I was not only referring to one approach?”

            Then you need to bring new treatment protocols in under your umbrella. Note, however, that your definition excludes those successful protocols precisely because they are not aimed at changing one’s sexual orientation . . . that is a side effect of treating the psychological roots of SSA.

            “what I was saying was that Homosexuality and SSA are two different names for the same thing, namely the state of being primarily sexually attracted to the same sex.”

            Which is why pointed out that these are in fact two different things. SSA is a grave disorder, but is not a sin. Homosexuality is a set of actions that are sinful. One can engage in homosexual activity without suffering from SSA, for example, which highlights the need to recognize the difference between SSA and homosexuality.

          • [email protected]

            so again what are these new successful protocols that you speak of? can you give me a name of them or of any group that uses them? can you describe what it is they do?

            Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. it is possible to be homosexual and never engage in sex with anyone of the same sex. now yes you could also use the word to describe acting on the orientation but that would be better stated in engaging in homosexuality. but again when used to describe the orientation homosexual means the same thing as SSA. both the orientation and SSA describe only the attraction, acting on them is then a further step.

          • Jack

            The power of Christ is one size fits all, (sin that is) and you can’t return salvation, either you have it, or you don’t.

          • [email protected]

            I agree.

          • Ron Duncan

            If you are talking about theory and having it stand up, you can’t start with a false premise – nor can you start with a non-sequitur. You start off with the premise of “becoming a Christian does not cause one to stop being gay” and “nor are Christians immune from being gay” as sound fact. I assert that becoming a Christian, by definition of scripture is to repent and turn from sin. Replace the word “gay” with other sin, such as adulterer, slanderer, murderer, and see if your base argument still stands up. We are called to “deny ourselves.” Being tempted is not a sin, but giving into it or dwelling on it is.

          • [email protected]

            by gay I did not mean acting on the sexual orientation but rather simply being homosexual. even if acting on the sexual orientation is a sin and people are called to celibacy simply having the sexual orientation would not be a sin.

            secondly i fully agree that being a christian means repenting and turning from sin however if someone disagrees that something is a sin and does not see it as such they can repent of sin and turn from it while still having the thing on which there is disagreement on if it is a sin or not.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            He may be attracted but should not act upon it. A Christian should only act upon thoughts and attractions which are pleasing to God. If they sin they must turn back to God’s ways and away from the thing that displeases God. If he continues to commit that sin the word of God clearly says that after a time God will sear his conscience and turn him over to his own lusts.

          • [email protected]

            well in which case what you are saying is that gay people should turn to celibacy. while I personally disagree over if homosexuality is a sin or not I do agree that if it is a sin it is only acting on it, not the orientation itself that is a sin and that the course of action then would be celibacy. so thanks.

          • John Stevens

            “well in which case what you are saying is that gay people should turn to celibacy.”

            Or they should seek healing.

          • [email protected]

            as I laid out in my other reply SOCE or “healing” does not work and is a fraud. I will simply refer to that post as to avoid unnecessary duplication.

          • John Stevens

            Actually, healing does work, and is not a fraud.

            You need to update your information.

          • Ken Faivor

            Well, healing won’t work for you anyway, faith is the one requirement.

            Mat 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it done unto you.

          • [email protected]

            I do have faith. but having faith does not mean one must believe claims that God will do something that He never said he would do. even if acting on homosexuality is a sin God never said that the sexual orientation itself is a sin nor did he ever say that he would remove it from people. so I have faith in God, but i know that those pushing SOCE are pushing a fraud.

          • Ken Faivor

            SOCE by the power of man will fail. But SOCE by the power of God cannot fail provided that you believe.
            God said He has healed you of your iniquity……believe Him.

            1Pe 2:24 who his own self bare our sins in his body upon the tree, that we, having died unto sins, might live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed.

          • [email protected]

            again you are assuming that God has said that he will do it. I can not say that God will do something and then declare that if people do not believe that He will do it they are lacking in faith. again yes he said that he has healed us of iniquity but even if acting on homosexuality is a sin that does not mean that God will change someones sexual orientation.

          • Ken Faivor

            To lust after a woman also sin, how much more lusting after a man. And this is what we are talking about, isn’t it?

            Mat_5:28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

          • Ken Faivor

            Joh_1:29 On the morrow he seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, that TAKETH away the sin of the world!

          • [email protected]

            no we are not talking about lust, lust and sexual orientation are not at all the same thing. a man can be sexually attracted to women and not lust after them, it just means that if he were to be looking for a romantic/sexual partner it would be a woman and not a man. in the same way a man can be sexually attracted to men and not lust after them, it just means that if he were to be looking for a romantic/sexual partner it would be another man.

            so perhaps that is the point of misunderstanding here, homosexuality is not lust just like heterosexuality is not lust. it certainly could lead to lust but it is not in and off itself lust.

          • Ken Faivor

            Your splitting hairs Bill.

          • [email protected]

            but it is a very important distinction. we would not say that it is a sin for someone to be a heterosexual, but to lust after someone yes. the exact same thing holds true for homosexuality. distinctions that matter should not be ignored.

          • Ken Faivor

            Would you like me to pray for you Bill?

          • [email protected]

            certainly I always welcome additional prayer in my life, always a good thing. thanks.

          • Slidellman4life

            What I am saying is it is not normal to think you are sexually attracted to people of your own gender.

            There is evidence, strong evidence, that homosexuality in individuals is the result of propaganda (better known as grooming), sexual abuse, or both.

          • Ken Faivor

            Or sexual sins of your ancestors according to the Word.

            Exo_34:7 keeping lovingkindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin; and that will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation.

          • [email protected]

            there is ZERO evidence that homosexuality is the result of propaganda or sexual abuse. telling people that homosexuality is okay does not make them gay. being sexually abused does not make people gay either.

            having some people who are both gay and were sexually abused as minors does NOT indicate that being gay was caused by sexual abuse. furthermore under this theory how then would we explain homosexuality in everyone who was not sexually abused?

          • Slidellman4life

            there is ZERO evidence that homosexuality is the result of propaganda or sexual abuse.

            Bill, for you to make a statement like that, such an obvious, atrocious and bald-faced lie the ZERO lies in your credibility.

            Absolutely nothing that you say at this point is in any way relevant.

            Good day.

          • [email protected]

            Only it is not a lie. sexual ab sue happens all the time without people being gay, and on the flip side many people are gay and are never sexually abused. of course the two are going to overlap, some people are going to be gay and be sexually abused but this does not mean that one causes the other. I am very much aware of and up to date on the research in this area and the claim that homosexuality is caused by sexual abuse is fully debunked and unsupported. it is made by people trying to find bad things in peoples lives to blame their homosexuality on but there is nothing backing this narrative up.

          • John Stevens

            “there is ZERO evidence that homosexuality is the result of propaganda or sexual abuse”

            Sorry, but that isn’t true. The studies do indicate a link between social norming, and increased incidence.

            Sexual abuse also plays a part, but is more prevalent in the histories of lesbians (female homosexuality is a vastly different thing from male homosexuality), while homosexual grooming is more of an issue with male homosexuals.

            ” telling people that homosexuality is okay does not make them gay.”

            No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying it is a contributing factor.

            “furthermore under this theory how then would we explain homosexuality in everyone who was not sexually abused?”

            Most homosexual grooming of male homosexuals is sexual abuse, as it occurs across age boundaries and often down power structures. But the sexual abuse of adolescents and teens by hebephiles and ephebephiles shades from being outrageous, to snickered at, depending on the age difference.

          • [email protected]

            Yes it is true, there is ZERO research to indicate that people become gay becasue of an increase is social acceptance. now it is true that an increase in acceptance increases the number of people reporting sexual behavior with the same sex and it is also certainly possible that more people being out as gay or bisexual leads to more people engaging in sex but none of that means that increasing acceptance leads to more people being gay.

            and also no, there is ZERO research to support the claim that sexual abuse makes people gay.

            please explain exactly what you mean by homosexual grooming or what it would entail? first you say that sexual abuse and homosexuality grooming are different and then you say that “Most homosexual grooming of male homosexuals is sexual abuse” so what exactly is your position on what it is or is not? it would appear that you are using it to refer to a sexual encounter where one is older then the other but it is not at all clear what would count as that. would a 17 year old male kissing a 16 year old male count as grooming?

          • John Stevens

            “Yes it is true, there is ZERO research to indicate that people become gay becasue of an increase is social acceptance.”

            Straw man argument. I said “contributes”, not “causes.” Social acceptance of deviance does not cause deviance, but the lack of social controls does increase incidence rates among those who might otherwise make a different choice.

            Look at divorce rates: the more socially acceptable divorce became, the higher the number of divorces. Your resistance to this fact is based in your premise that SSA is innate. Consider, however, the implications of SSA being a learned behavior. Surely you can see, if you accept that premise, that social controls do have an effect.

            “and also no, there is ZERO research to support the claim that sexual abuse makes people gay.”

            That is correct, but again, a straw man, as I never claimed that it was the only factor. So technically you are correct: sexual abuse ALONE does not guarantee that a girl becomes a lesbian. Other factors contribute to the end result, but sexual abuse is an important and quite strong one, especially in the right age cohort.

            What you seem to be missing is the interaction between factors.

            “please explain exactly what you mean by homosexual grooming or what it would entail?”

            I take it you’ve never read the anthropological studies done on the male homosexual community. I recommend them to those who have an academic interest in the question.

          • [email protected]

            Okay noted and in that case there is also no evidence that social acceptance contributes to people being homosexual. Again sexual orientation is not a choice only acting on it is. thus while social acceptance can indeed impact rates of sexual behavior it will not impact rates of sexual orientation becasue unlike action orientation is not a choice and thus not impacted by social acceptance rates. yes social controls could have an impact if sexual orientation were indeed a learned behavior but that is not at all the case.

            again noted and in that case there is no evidence that sexual abuse is a contributing factor to people becoming gay. but please to elaborate…what exactly is the cocktail of factors that produces the end result of someone being gay?

            I asked a clarifying question as to what you mean by grooming. if you have a particular reading that you would like me to look at to answer that question that tracks with how you are using that term them please by all means let me know what it is and I will look for it if find-able on google.

          • John Stevens

            “Okay noted and in that case there is also no evidence that social acceptance contributes to people being homosexual.”

            There is, actually, such evidence.

            “Again sexual orientation is not a choice”

            Yes, it is a choice. Certainly it is one that can be influenced by one’s environment, and certainly one that can be reinforced by channeling and imprinting, or contrariwise, by avoidance and various contributing traumas and their related emotional disorders.

            “it will not impact rates of sexual orientation becasue unlike action orientation is not a choice”

            Orientation is a choice. I’ve given you examples of people who have changed their orientation. They did this as a matter of choice, thus ipso facto, sexual orientation is a choice.

            I’m not arguing that it is a quick or easy choice to change, but as I’ve demonstrated using facts, it is a choice.

            “again noted and in that case there is no evidence that sexual abuse is a contributing factor to people becoming gay.”

            There is quite a bit of evidence, especially among lesbians, that this is the case. As we’ve already discussed, “abuse” lies on a scale, and one could argue with good faith where abuse ends, and consent begins, but the evidence for the link is overwhelming.

            The mechanism lies in the causal relationship and timing associated with abuse and the stages of sexual maturity that human beings go through.

            For female homosexuals, a girl who, at the right stage in the maturation process, is abused will form a strong (even to the level of experiencing PTSD) avoidance reaction to her abuser. The sexual impulse remains, however, and is quite strong, so seeks an outlet. This results in some cases in the abused girl modifying her normal and healthy love of female friends (philia) into an erotic one (eros).

            For male homosexuals, abuse can work in two different ways, including a kind of psycho-sexual “Stockholm Syndrome” like reaction that combines in unhealthy ways with the healthy and normal need for a father’s love and approval.

            The more common one (already mentioned) is the imprinting or channeling that young men go through when first given the opportunity to engage in sexual activity. If you are not familiar with it, there are studies on just this, though the original studies were done in order to investigate “the symbology of pornography, and its relationship to signals and fads.”

            One of the more interesting discoveries that arose out of those studies was the strong “imprinting” or “channeling” of the male sexual impulse that occurs in initial exposure and early sexual experience. A man is likely to retain vestiges of this imprinting even decades later. Later anthropological studies in the male homosexual community demonstrated this a major component in the choice to be same sex attracted.

            It is certainly true that young men are not perfectly blank slates, but the impact that first sexual experience has on a young man is much more powerful than people realized, and it leaves a deep and lasting impression.

            As a Catholic who has studied the Theology of the Body, I see in these findings the truth of Catholic teaching about human sexuality. To my utter lack of surprise, the Church is right about this, as it is about so much else.

            “what exactly is the cocktail of factors that produces the end result of someone being gay?”

            I already answered this question. Please remember that human beings are not indifferent objects being acted on by indifferent forces, so what one gets from psychological and sociological studies is a statistical norm that can guide researchers in the task of determining the causal relationship; one does not get a “Law of Nature”.

            Homosexual grooming is like any other kind of sexual grooming. If you are familiar with the way pedophiles groom those they are attracted to, or the ways in which Muslims groomed girls in the UK, you have a rough idea of what I’m talking about.

            The culmination of that grooming takes the young man into those experiences discussed above, ones that cause the “imprinting” or “channeling” effect. This works on women, as well, but is much less powerful.

            For women, sexual orientation is less strongly tied to physical experience, and is thus more fluid. This has resulted in having more ex-lesbians than practicing ones . . . a fact that has given rise to a slang term in the community: “hasbian.”

            It is difficult to take seriously the contention that sexual orientation is not a choice, considering this phenomenon.

            The only reply I’ve ever seen to this facts always includes the logical fallacy of “No True Scotsman”, but pointing this out never seems to make people rethink their position.

          • [email protected]

            No there is no evidence that social acceptance impacts the rates of people having a homosexual sexual orientation nor could that evidence exist because sexual orientation is not a choice. The so called examples you have of people just deciding to change their sexual orientation are either A people who were in fact bisexual or B people making a claim of change that did not last or C a fraud. Sexual orientation is not something that can just change and we do not need to toss out everything we know about sexual orientation just because a tiny handful of people claim to have “changed”.

            You can claim that abuse impacts change in sexual orientation all you want but there is no evidence to back that up and all the relevant professional organizations are clear that such a claim is unsubstantiated and false. Generally I would say that your understanding of sexual orientation excludes bisexuals and thus you see people switch from opposite sex to same sex and assume that it is evidence of sexual orientation change when it fact it is just evidence of bisexual people.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            He I believe is saying that it is the father of lies who presents ideas and thoughts which are unnatural , immoral and against God’s instructions to everyone and that none of us have to act upon them. To act upon those kinds of thoughts and attractions which are contrary to God’s word , we must deny our own conscience .

        • dan

          Be careful who you listen to people Satan will twist a lie in with a little truth!

      • ComeOnPeople!

        He denied and hide it not because of society but because anyone with unnatural attractions or attractions which are sinful struggle with their own conscience. Anyone who follows the Messiah and keeps HIS word must put their flesh under subjection to HIS Spirit & HIS word on a daily bases. Wrong thoughts & sinful attractions come our way all the time. Mostly via Devil Vision and UN-Holy-wood. A man who is attracted to forced sex must not act upon that attraction or he will end up raping a woman. A adult who is attracted to an infant must not act upon that attraction. A father attracted to his daughter must not act upon it. It is not others who make someone feel they have to hide what is in their thoughts but it is their conscience which makes them hide until they either overcome those thoughts or they deny their conscience and their thoughts overcome them.

        • [email protected]

          it was exactly becasue he knew it was not safe to come out. becasue he was told by others that it was unnatural and sinful and that gay people had something wrong with them. there is no such thing as a sexual orientation to forced sex nor is that in any way comparable to real sexual orientation. the others you mention are likewise also not sexual orientations nor comparable to what we are talking about here.

          homosexuality is a natural and normal variation of human sexuality just like heterosexuality. people are naturally attracted to one sex or the other. on the other hand the desire from criminal sexual behavior, rape, sexual abuse of minors, of sex with family members comes from a variety of sources to include failures to develop normal pro-social relations and instead tending towards these. but again they are not comparable and are needlessly inflammatory so lets leave them out of the conversation as they do not belong in it.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            So says a corrupt society . When a society is not corrupt with all kinds of sexual deviations it will always shun them. You can make claims all you want till you are blue in the face but the Creator of mankind says what is and what isn’t a right or wrong attraction. Mankind has always had all kinds of false ideas, unnatural attractions and sinful thoughts run threw their brains but those who love God keep his word and do not act upon their carnal inclinations .

  • TheBottomline4This

    Sidenote:
    I think Whoopi and Joy are so vile in their thinking.
    Raven…who is gay, seems to be more reasonable on some issues then those two..

    • Josey

      Aren’t they all homosexual on the view? I don’t watch it but saw a clip of it once in a docs. office and recognized those on it as stars who had “come out”.

      • TheBottomline4This

        No. Raven is, but on some topics she seems to not be as far to the extreme left as silly Whoopi and Joy are.
        When I watch The View it is only to see what the wrong side is saying. Most of it is nauseating.

  • zeddicuskotor

    Good for him. Leaving a abusive relationship is considered a good thing for sane people.

    • Slidellman4life

      Troll. Flagged.

      • zeddicuskotor

        I do find it ironic that christians seem to think that staying in a abusive relationship is considered a good idea. Why?

        • The Last Trump

          And what, pray tell, is this “abuse” you refer to?
          Remaining faithful to his vows of marriage?
          Or living up to the expectation of raising the children he fathered?

          • zeddicuskotor

            Having to lie about yourself to placate a religious extremists is rather abusive, don’t you think?

          • The Last Trump

            Someone forced him to lie, did they?
            And then coerced him to marry a woman and father two children?
            Uh huh.
            Suuuure.

    • [email protected]

      It was not an abusive relationship, he is still friends with his now ex-wife and still meets with her, it is just that trying to be married to her while being gay was not fair to either of them. The problem was he was not able to be openly gay and instead tried to suppress it which was never going to work. If he had been free to be openly gay from the start this could have been avoided.

      • Amos Moses

        Ummmmmmmmmmm ………….. no ……….. like saying he was a suppressed murderer ………. but it just was not going to work ……….. but if he had been able to be openly a murderer it before the marriage ……….. well then it would have been better …… No ……………. not very good reasoning …………

        • [email protected]

          that is not at all a workable comparison. first of all wanting to murder someone does not determine the sex of your marital partner. on the other hand sexual orientation is a determining factor in the success of a relationship, it is very hard to make a marriage work if you are not at all sexually attracted to the person you are marrying.

          secondly murder is illegal and harmful to others which is not true with homosexuality. thus someone could be honest about their orientation and have a better marriage while on the other hand being a murder is something that will prevent a solid relationship.

          • Amos Moses

            “first of all wanting to murder someone does not determine the sex of your marital partner.”

            Actually, morbidity statistics belie that position ………. and it does make them all murderers of each other ……….

          • [email protected]

            Perhaps you could explain that comment becasue the point you are making is not clear to me. what makes them all murderers of each other and who are we talking about now?

          • Amos Moses

            They are bringing premature death upon themselves and their “partners” …….premature by 20 years or more ……. slow death …….. still death ……….. still murder …….. just as if it was a slow poison ……… no less a murder/suicide …. and all due to their “activity” ………. their choice of a “partner” ……….. and changing the vocabulary to say they are “married” …… not going to change it one iota ………………. they will die prematurely ……… and they are being encouraged to do so …………… can’t think of anything more hateful and destructive ……….

          • [email protected]

            I addressed the claim that they are dying early in another comment. here I will just say that lets say that your claim is 100% true, it is not, but even if it were that would still not be murder nor would it be comparable to murder and so your argument here still would not advance becasue it is not murder. the claim you are making is a health claim and to the impact of homosexuality on health but at the end of the day that still is not comparable to murder. so we can continue the conversation in the other response chain under the proper heading of health issues as opposed to this comparison to murder which should not be made.

          • Amos Moses

            “Gay obituaries closely track officially reported deaths from AIDS”, has been published in Psychological Reports (2005;96:693-697)……….. and yes they choose their death and the death of their partners …. they embrace death ………. just as much as a smoker knows that certain early death will be the result of smoking ………..

          • [email protected]

            thanks for the citation, that is from the discredited work done by Paul Cameron so the claim is not credible and should not be taken as true again another fatal flaw with the argument. here is the response to that myth from the SPLC

            “However, like virtually all of his “research,” Cameron’s methodology is egregiously flawed — most obviously because the sample he selected (the data from the obits) was not remotely statistically representative of the LGBT population as a whole. Even Nicholas Eberstadt, a demographer at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, has called Cameron’s methods “just ridiculous.”

            Anti-LGBT organizations have also tried to support this claim by distorting the work of legitimate scholars, like a 1997 study conducted by a Canadian team of researchers that dealt with gay and bisexual men living in Vancouver in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The authors of the study became aware that their work was being misrepresented by anti-LGBT groups, and issued a response taking the groups to task.”

          • Amos Moses

            Modelling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay and bisexual men.
            R S Hogg, S A Strathdee, K J Craib, M V O’Shaughnessy, J S Montaner and M T Schechter
            + Author Affiliations

            British Columbia Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS, St Paul’s Hospital, Vancouver, Canada.
            Abstract

            OBJECTIVE: To assess how HIV infection and AIDS (HIV/AIDS) impacts on mortality rates for gay and bisexual men. METHODS: Vital statistics data were obtained for a large Canadian urban centre from 1987 to 1992. Three scenarios were utilized with assumed proportions of gay and bisexual men of 3%, 6% and 9% among the male population age 20 years. For each scenario, non-HIV deaths were distributed according to the assumed proportion of the total population (3%, 6% or 9%) but 95% of HIV deaths were distributed to gay and bisexual men as this is the proportion of AIDS cases in gay and bisexual men in this centre. The main outcome measures of interest were age-specific patterns of death, life expectancy and life expectancy lost due to HIV/AIDS at exact age 20 years, and the probability of living from age 20 to 65 years. RESULTS: Estimates of the mid-period gay and bisexual population ranged from 5406 to 16,219 for the three scenarios, and total deaths in these men from 953 to 1703. Age-specific mortality was significantly higher for gay and bisexual men than all men aged 30-44. Life expectancy at age 20 for gay and bisexual men ranged from 34.0 years to 46.3 years for the 3% and 9% scenarios respectively. These were all lower than the 54.3 year life expectancy at age 20 for all men. The probability of living from age 20 to 65 years for gay and bisexual men ranged from 32% for the 3% scenario, to 59% for the 9% scenario. These figures were considerably lower than for all men where the probability of living from 20 to 65 was 78%. CONCLUSION: In a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday. Under even the most liberal assumptions, gay and bisexual men in this urban centre are now experiencing a life expectancy similar to that experienced by all men in Canada in the year 1871.

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          • Ronald Carter

            24 year old data?
            Got anything more recent?

          • Amos Moses

            Got anything to contradict it?……………….. Most recent data is 2005 …… not that it makes any difference to you ……… or the people choosing to die …………..

          • Ronald Carter

            If you want to go back to a period where AIDS was the “gay disease” in the 1980s, and no one knew how to protect against it, of course you’re going to get different data than you’d get today.

          • Amos Moses

            2005 was not twenty years ago …………. fail …… try again ………..

          • Amos Moses

            If you want to know what really confirms it …………… scripture does ………… the wages of SIN is DEATH ………… and they get it in SPADES ………………..

          • Ronald Carter

            All the usual stuff that points to your holy book, which has a lot to do with why so many of us have problems with it.

          • Amos Moses

            “All the usual stuff that points to your holy book,”

            Right ……….. cause it is not true ……….. and people have given their lives for it ……… for centuries ………. because it is not true …………. but you have no evidence ……………. Got It! ….

          • Ronald Carter

            People giving their lives to it for centuries makes it true?

          • Amos Moses

            No,,,,,,,,,,,, but people gave their lives for it ………… because it is true ………..

          • [email protected]

            not only is it old but the authors of the study issued a clarification and rebuttal of its use by anti-gay arguments after hearing that it had been used in this way. I posted their statement. unfortunately Amos is pulling resources from an anti-gay site that pushes known falsehoods about gay people and uses information even after it has been shown to be inaccurate or misused.

          • [email protected]

            here is what the authors of that Canadian study have to say about it, in short if you are attempting to use it to back up an anti-gay position you are misrepresenting what it says as they cover in their clarification of their work taken from the International Epidemiological Association 2001

            “over the past few months we have learnt of a number of reports regarding a paper we published in the International Journal of Epidemiology on the gay and bisexual life expectancy in Vancouver in the late 1980s and early 1990s.1 From these reports it appears that our research is being used by select groups in US2 and Finland3 to suggest that gay and bisexual men live an unhealthy lifestyle that is destructive to themselves and to others. These homophobic groups appear more interested in restricting the human rights of gay and bisexuals rather than promoting their health and well being.

            The aim of our research was never to spread more homophobia, but to demonstrate to an international audience how the life expectancy of gay and bisexual men can be estimated from limited vital statistics data. In our paper, we demonstrated that in a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 21 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality continued, we estimated that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years would not reach their 65th birthday. Under even the most liberal assumptions, gay and bisexual men in this urban centre were experiencing a life expectancy similar to that experienced by men in Canada in the year 1871. In contrast, if we were to repeat this analysis today the life expectancy of gay and bisexual men would be greatly improved. Deaths from HIV infection have declined dramatically in this population since 1996. As we have previously reported there has been a threefold decrease in mortality in Vancouver as well as in other parts of British Columbia.4

            It is essential to note that the life expectancy of any population is a descriptive and not a prescriptive mesaure.5 Death is a product of the way a person lives and what physical and environmental hazards he or she faces everyday. It cannot be attributed solely to their sexual orientation or any other ethnic or social factor. If estimates of an individual gay and bisexual man’s risk of death is truly needed for legal or other purposes, then people making these estimates should use the same actuarial tables that are used for all other males in that population. Gay and bisexual men are included in the construction of official population-based tables and therefore these tables for all males are the appropriate ones to be used.

            In summary, the aim of our work was to assist health planners with the means of estimating the impact of HIV infection on groups, like gay and bisexual men, not necessarily captured by vital statistics data and not to hinder the rights of these groups worldwide. Overall, we do not condone the use of our research in a manner that restricts the political or human rights of gay and bisexual men or any other group.”

          • Amos Moses

            My position is not “anti-gay” …………… my position is ANTI-LIE ……………. and to say that being homosexual is ok and good and natural and healthy …………………… BIG FAT LIE ……. and i am not going to smoke that fatty …………

          • [email protected]

            If you are anti-lie then I trust you will stop using sources after it has been shown that they have been debunked or that they were misrepresented and the authors corrected that misrepresentation.

            secondly no it is not a like to say that homosexuality is natural and healthy. whether it is okay or good are not objective things that can be measured thus it is not a lie either way, rather it is just a question of by which standard of evaluation and then is that a standard of evaluation that we want to follow or should follow. but bottom line the sources you cited do not support your claim after evaluation and so we are back to my point before on this, to the extent that there are disparities the answer is to improve the life situation of gay people, not to use the disparities as a reason to make their life situation even more difficult.

          • Amos Moses

            “you will stop using sources after it has been shown that they have been debunked”

            Debunked ………. by whom ……….. of what credibility ……. and where is the opposing research and peer-reviewed article to support your contention ……… or is it just disagreement because ………. IT IS THE TRUTH that you do not want to hear ……….. that homosexuals DIE prematurely because of what they do ………………

            “secondly no it is not a like to say that homosexuality is natural and healthy. ”

            Just part of the communist platform …….. from the Naked Communist by Cleon Skousen

            24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.

            25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

            26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”

          • [email protected]

            I already posted responses to both of the sources you used, Cameron is discredited and is nothing but bogus fake “research” and the authors of the Canadian study posted a res ponce clarifying that their study was being misused and it does not support the contention that you are making here. If you want another look at the Canadian study read the response from the authors of the study that I posted here.

            on Cameron here is more from the SPLC:

            “Cameron dresses up his “studies” with copious footnotes, graphs and charts, and then pays to publish them in certain journals. Cameron’s work has been rejected by both the American Psychological Association and the American Sociological Association, yet his ludicrous statistics are frequently referenced in sermons, news broadcasts, politicians’ speeches and even court decisions.”

            So no, his work is not credible, rather he just pays to have it published in Journals to make it look respectable.

          • Amos Moses

            Obits ………………. kind of hard to refute that kind of HARD evidence …… but keep swinging slugger ……….. you only have two more strikes to go ……….

          • [email protected]

            as I already posted in regards to that

            “”However, like virtually all of his “research,” Cameron’s methodology is egregiously flawed — most obviously because the sample he selected (the data from the obits) was not remotely statistically representative of the LGBT population as a whole. Even Nicholas Eberstadt, a demographer at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, has called Cameron’s methods “just ridiculous.”

          • Guest

            a.) Uh, he’s still male whether he claims to be gay or not. So much for your “sex of your marital partner” claim.

            b.) Murder is sin just like homosexuality is sin. Both are abominations to God.

          • [email protected]

            I never said he was not male. by sex of your marital partner I was referring not to him but rather to the sex of his partner. glad to clear that point up for you.

            even if murder and homosexuality were both sins they would still not at all be comparable in the way that they were being compared by Amos. they are still very clearly different in terms of their impact on others. beyond that I would not that even if acting on homosexuality is a sin simply being homosexual is not a sin so it would furthermore not be correct to make a comparison for that reason.

          • Guest

            You are wrong. God regards them both as abominations, and this man is claiming to be a Christian.

          • [email protected]

            so are you saying that even if one is celibate simply having the sexual orientation of homosexuality is a sin? that is clearly not the case. and again even if we are to say that they are both sins the comparison clearly is not the same in the context of our conversation. you could be honest about being gay and still be celibate and that is in no way comparable to murdering someone.

          • Guest

            The Bible says as a man thinks in his heart, so he is. To struggle with temptation is one thing, to give into it is another. Homosexuality and murder are both abominations in God’s sight.

          • [email protected]

            what you are talking about then is lust and that is not the same thing as having a sexual orientation. an unmarried heterosexual man is sexually attracted to women but that fact does not mean he is lusting after them.

            also as I have said multiple times now and you have ignored each time the point about them not being comparable has nothing to do with if they are both sins or not but rather if they are comparable in the point that was being made and they are not. it would be helpful if you would read and respond to what was said as opposed to repeating without regard to the explanation given of what was being said.

          • Guest

            Stop putting words in my mouth and in other posters’ mouths. You have blamed us for this man’s glaring sins when we’ve had nothing to do with his depravity and immorality. Both sins (murder and adultery) are categorized as abominations, and both sins have something to do with each other murder and adultery both cause death to someone and something (the demise of a marriage, the ripping apart of another person’s being), and both come with severe penalties. Just because you don’t like the similarities, doesn’t mean you can get away with pretending they don’t exist.

          • [email protected]

            “like saying he was a suppressed murderer” this is what I was responding to and no, saying that someone is gay and in the closet is not at all the same as saying that they are a suppressed murder and saying that they should be able to come out as gay, not if they should act on it but just if they should come out, is not at all the same as saying that they should be able to murder someone. that was the absurd comparison I was responding to and that is what i have been referencing back to. It is fully an absurd comparison. furthermore we can talk about the issue without making needlessly inflammatory comparisons. even if they are both sins clearly there is a huge difference between having sex with another man and killing someone and if you are unable to see that then i truly do feel sorry for you.

          • Guest

            Sin begins on the inside. One can be an adulterer or a murderer before actually cheating with or killing someone.

          • [email protected]

            again saying that someone should be able to admit that they are homosexual, even if they then see it as a sin and commit to celibacy is not at all comparable to saying that someone should be free to murder someone. clearly it is an absurd comparison and me saying the former does not mean that I would say the latter. that is about as clear as it can be.

          • Guest

            You are completely missing the point. Let’s see if this helps you:

            1.) Homosexuality is a sin. Murder is a sin.

            2.) Both are abominations before God.

            3.) Adultery is a sin. Adultery is akin to murder.

            4.) This wannabe rocker has committed both the sin of sodomy and adultery.

            Conclusion: Homosexuality, murder, and adultery are comparable.

          • [email protected]

            you are the one who is completely missing the point by saying that they are comparable is one way thus they must be comparable is all ways. If homosexuality is a sin then yes it is comparable to other sins on that one point. however that does not mean that it is broadly comparable. this is to say that just becasue it is comparable in one context does not mean that it is comparable in other contexts. in the context of the conversation they were not comparable.

            furthermore even if acting on homosexuality is a sin the orientation itself is not a sin and thus being honest about ones sexual orientation would not be a sin and thus not comparable to sin.

          • Guest

            Dude, I laid it out for you in logical terminology. If that escapes you, I can’t help you. You can post a plethora of words all over the place, but that doesn’t change the facts.

          • [email protected]

            yes you did and as I have already stated if your assumptions are correct, and I am stating that they are not, even then all that would show is that there was a comparison on that one point. that would not then mean that they are fully comparable or that any comparison between the two would be proper. If homosexuality is a sin then there is no comparison, if it is a sin then there is only a comparison in that they would both be a sin, however further comparison after that point could still be and would still be improper.

          • Guest

            Everything I wrote is accurate. You just don’t like it. Your preference doesn’t get to determine truth.

          • [email protected]

            Well again I would contest that homosexuality is a sin but even if we set that aside for a moment saying that they are comparable on the point of being a sin does not mean that they have anything else in common beyond that or should be compared in other ways. so even if we take your points as true there is still a problem with the end result you come to because you are making the incorrect jump from saying they are related on one point to then saying that they are comparable beyond that one point. so again they are only comparable on the point of being a sin if they are indeed both sins and then #2 they are not comparable beyond that one point. even if they are both sins that does not mean that it is proper to compare them in other ways.

          • Guest

            It doesn’t matter if they are comparable on one point or one thousand points. One aspect alone is sufficient to say they are comparable.

          • [email protected]

            but that does not mean that any comparison is proper. for example we could say that both purse snatching and murder are crimes and so they are comparable on that one point. at the same time we would not say that they are comparable in terms of harm done or seriousness of the crime or deserved penalty because while they are comparable on one point they are not at all comparable on others. we also would not generally say that they are comparable becasue they are not comparable on more points then they are comparable. so if for example it is not comparable on 3 points but only comparable on 1 we would say that generally it is not comparable.

  • [email protected]

    The problem he faced was pressure to deny the fact that he was gay and try to be heterosexual. people may fault him for leaving the relationship but the fact of the matter is that he should never have been in it to begin with but rather should have always been free to be with another man.

    Mixed orientation marriages are not fair for either party and yet they are the product of a sexual ethic which says that sex must be reserved for marriage and then denies marriage to gay people. This is why I say that the sexual ethic that pushes a blanket ban on homosexuality is unworkable and what is needed instead and more consistent with the general biblical model for the christian sexual ethic is one that allows both heterosexual and gay people to have sex within the bounds of marriage, either to the other sex or to the same sex. this means we must re-think two assumptions, A that marriage can only be between a heterosexual couple and B that homosexuality is a sin. certainly It would seem like homosexuality must be a sin if sex must be within marriage and marriage can only be between a heterosexual couple but is that a workable sexual ethic?

    a sexual ethic is supposed to channel sexual activity into a moral path but it is unable to do that if there is no potential moral path open to the individual. denying any moral path completely defeats the purpose of having a sexual ethic and that point actually encourages immoral behavior because if it all is wrong why not do whatever you want? so if we are to have a workable sexual ethic, one that does what we would hope and expect a sexual ethic to do, then it must be ones that provides a moral path for gay people to live out their sexuality and once we start with that in mind we will more easily see that the bible does not close the door to that option.

    • TheBottomline4This

      “the fact of the matter is that he should never have been in it to begin with but rather should have always been free to be with another man”
      No, he is not free to be with another man due to his marriage and children. He made his choice to marry. I don’t think there was a gun to his head. So that is what he should have stayed with and made work as best as possible. He hasn’t had an affair or beaten his wife. If he is really a Christian, he should sacrifice his “now gay self” for the sake of God first of all, then his wife and children.Just because he is “now gay”, doesn’t mean he is free to go after that. The wife and children cancel that.
      But see…he is not a Christian and will not do the right thing of fighting the urge to be with a man. SInce he is following his flesh, he needs to now feed that urge to eventually be with a man. No virtue there for him.
      He is abandoning the vows he made with the woman he married and has children with. That is wrong. He is wrong to go after the gay lifestyle he now has to feed at some point. He will sink further and further…just as satan wants.

      • [email protected]

        The point I am making is not that he should have left his marriage now but that he should never have been in the marriage to begin with. the entire scenario was avoidable if he had not been in an environment that pushed him into the closet. so that is what I am focusing on here, not what he did in a situation that should not have existed but rather how can we stop the situation all together.

        • TheBottomline4This

          Understood. He is though in this situation and should do as I mentioned.

          • [email protected]

            Okay and in that case If I knew him i would offer the same advice. Still when these kind of stories come up, and this is not the first time nor will it be the last, I find it is more productive to address the underlying issue here that caused the situation in the first place. It is better to avoid difficult situation then to put people in one and then ask them to make the hard choice that follows from it. so the point of my comment was to say, hey lets not keep doing the things that causes these stories to happen. lets change how the church addresses this so gay people are able to come out as opposed to trying to live as a heterosexual and then ending up with a failed relationship that is a bad outcome for all those involved.

    • Guest

      He’s an adulterer and liar. He’s also hardly a rock “star” since no one knew who he was before this.

      • [email protected]

        He is not dating anyone of the same sex and wants to wait before doing so. he did not leave his family to be with someone else that he started seeing, rather he is admitting that he is gay and that becasue of that trying to maintain his marriage is not going to work. he has up to this point not been honest about his sexual orientation but that is only becasue that is exactly what he is asked to do by a church that condemns homosexuality and says that everyone should be heterosexual. so unless you are going to say that gay people should come out you can not then not use their staying in the closet agasint them because that is exactly what you wanted from them.

        • Guest

          He abandoned his family for the sake of debauchery. By any scale, that’s low and disgusting.

          • [email protected]

            I was specifically addressing the claims that you made about him. As to the topic in general I was addressing how to stop this situation from happening in the first place as opposed to what he should have done one it was already the case. It is better to not get to this point in the first place which means making it safe for gay people to come out and if it is seen as a sin pointing towards celibacy as opposed to keeping it hidden and pretending to be heterosexual when one is not.

          • Guest

            What he did is disgusting any way you look at it. He’s got children. What’s he going to do? Look their way and say, “Oops”?

          • [email protected]

            and again as I just said my comments are not addressing what he should have done in that situation but rather they are addressing what caused that situation to begin with and what would need to change so people are not placed in that position.

            furthermore it is highly problematic to be critical of his choices in the situation if you still support the problems that got him there in the first place. as I have said before it is setting people up for failure to ask them to pretend to be heterosexual when they are not and then come down hard on them when that does not work. if we want to avoid the situation of gay men leaving their wife and kids then we should stop asking them to pretend to be heterosexual when they are gay in the first place. In other words don’t put people in a bad situation and then critique how they handled it, rather first stop placing people in that bad situation.

          • Guest

            What caused that situation to begin with is depravity and selfishness.

          • [email protected]

            not at all. depravity and selfishness did not put a gay man into a marriage with a woman, rather the belief that he could not come out and needed to pretend to be heterosexual is what put him there. even if he still believed it was a sin being able to come out and be celibate instead would have prevented this. clearly the path of asking people to lie about their sexuality and hide it and pretend to be something different is not one that ends well but rather is one that sets people up for failure.

          • Guest

            Ah, but that’s the lie – he could come out. Seems this is a non-talented man looking for any way to gain attention for his floundering career. No one heard of him before this.

          • [email protected]

            could he come out, yes. was it safe for him to do so, would his church have supported him doing so? would his family have supported him doing so? clearly he saw the answers to those questions as no.

            but would you like to go on record as saying that gay people should be able to come out as homosexual without being rejected by friends, family, and church for admitting that they have that sexual orientation?

          • Guest

            So what? You’re blaming others for this man’s sins. He says he’s a sodomite, then let him own it. He has to stop blaming others for his sins.

          • [email protected]

            I am saying that if it had been safe for him to come out he would not not been in the situation in the first place. I am saying that even if acting on homosexuality is viewed as a sin people should still be able to come out and thus avoid the problems that are caused by people pretending to be something that they are not.

          • Guest

            Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way. It’s no one’s fault that the guy is a liar, a sodomite, an adulterer, and a deadbeat.

          • [email protected]

            you are not responding to anything that I said. just repeating is not the same as responding to what was said. clearly if circumstances had been different the result would have been different. that is all I am saying with this point. he did not get here becasue he had a safe space to come out but did not but rather did not have a safe space to come out which then started down the road to this happening.

          • Guest

            Bill, what is there to respond to? You’re just posting copious amounts of words in hopes of deflecting from the issue. Just because the man is a sodomite, a sin that’s been particularly glorified by society of late, doesn’t make him a good person or without excuse.

          • [email protected]

            I never said that he was a good person or without excuse. please try to respond to what I am saying and not a misrepresentation of what i am saying. one more time now, he did not get here becasue he had a safe space to come out but did not, but rather he did not have a safe space to come out which then started down the road to this happening. this then is the root problem and let me just ask if you agree of disagree with the following statement:

            “he should never have felt like he had to pretend to be heterosexual and hide the fact that he was homosexual.” agree or disagree?

          • Guest

            Here’s an idea for you, Bill: Why don’t YOU try responding to what is said rather than post a bunch of nonsensical words about it?

          • [email protected]

            I did, and I asked you a simple question and all you have to say to answer it is agree or disagree and you did not. I think it is clear who is being responsive and who is not in the conversation. not trying to be aggravating at all however it is hard to carry on a conversation when you are talking to something completely different then what I am talking to.

          • Guest

            You rambled on with an incoherent lot of red herring.

          • [email protected]

            I do not think that is a fair characterization but certainly if you find that something needs to be clarified or explained just let me know and I will do that. again this question gets back to the point i was making so here it is again:

            “he should never have felt like he had to pretend to be heterosexual and hide the fact that he was homosexual but instead should have had a safe environment to come out as gay” agree or disagree?

          • Guest

            You keep repeating yourself. It doesn’t make your argument anymore true. It just means you’re repetitive.

          • [email protected]

            no it just means that you are dodging the question so i keep asking it. If you do not doge it I do not need to repeat it.

          • Guest

            You’re not making any sense. What question are you claiming to have asked, and how is it relevant to the original point that Amos Moses made? (the one in which YOU were wrong and he was right).

          • [email protected]

            let me just ask if you agree of disagree with the following statement:

            “he should never have felt like he had to pretend to be heterosexual and hide the fact that he was homosexual but instead should have had a safe environment to come out as gay” agree or disagree?

            and btw this conversation never had amos in it that was the other one. this one started with my comment and then you replied to it.

          • Guest

            You’re asking a dishonest question that is framed in such a way as to manipulate the answer. Should the guy have been honest? Yes. Should he have gotten married if he wasn’t going to keep his vows? No. Should he repent of his sin? Yes.

            Let me ask you this: Should a murderer suppress his urges and live a lie or come out in the open and proudly kill people because that’s who he is? Yes or no.

          • [email protected]

            Okay so to be clear you would rather that he said that he was homosexual and then committed to celibacy as opposed to not telling anyone he was gay and trying to be heterosexual?

            and as to your question the answer is no, but the question has nothing to do with the one at hand nor is it comparable to the question at hand and the fact that you would make the comparison is needlessly inflammatory.

  • Theodore Fenton

    It takes great courage to finally admit this to himself, his family, and society. It’s unfortunate that societal pressures forced him to be in denial for so long. Best wishes to him.

    • TheBottomline4This

      Thanks gay one…NOT.
      It is not courage, it is compromise.
      He is satan’s pawn.

    • Guest

      Yeah, admitting to adultery and degenerate behavior is real courageous. /sarc

    • Josey

      oh yeah, real courageous, the **choices** he made. NOT!

      • Dyros

        I’m married. But heck it…I’ll be courageous and hire a hooker for a quickie at some motel! Give in to sin…it’s the “courageous” thing to do!
        This world has gone upside down!

      • Jalapeno

        Is it better to stay in a marriage that’s just hurting everyone involved?

        Is it better to pretend to be someone you aren’t?

        • hytre64

          It is better to REPENT and pray to BECOME the person that you are supposed to be in Christ.

          Am I the perfect husband? No.

          So what do I do – do I throw away my marriage because I am not perfect? NO. I have a covenant relationship with my wife and with my God. I repent of my sins, ask God to help me to change and to strengthen me, and then I continue on. THAT is the Christian walk, not giving up and embracing sin.

  • Josey

    I find it interesting in his comment and I quote him :“I am not dating. I decided when I was going through all of this to take at least a year just to get to know myself as a gay person—to know this knew part of me, before I start getting to know who somebody else is in that sort of way,” he replied.” first of all I think he meant new not knew but weird how he says he wants to get to know himself as a gay person and get to know this new part of him. Which is it? Were you born a homosexual or did you just figure out you are homosexual? Is this a new phase? You abandoned your wife and children to figure it all out, sounds like confusion and every evil work at play here. He claims he hates when ministers say homosexuality is a choice and yet he made many choices here, the choice to get to know this new homosexual part of himself ( I refuse to use the word gay that sodomites use, the definition of gay does not have a thing to do with sodomy) he made the choice to abandon his family for a homosexual lifestyle, seems he has made many choices and doesn’t want to accept responsibility for his choices because then he would have to acknowledge his sin but even tho. he is deceiving himself and not admitting he made those choices, God will still hold him accountable on judgement day. Sorry bub, your choices you made are yours to own.

  • Karen

    Evidently, he does not know the power of God, because only God can change him. He wants the church to accept homosexuality even though the Bible doesn’t. smh

    • [email protected]

      God is not in the business of changing sexual orientation. He never claims that he will do it in the bible and even if we assume that acting on the sexual orientation is a sin that would not mean that the sexual orientation is itself a sin. With that in mind the choice would have been between continuing to pretend to be heterosexual when not, taking up celibacy, or embracing being gay. so between those three which would you recommend?

  • D Sims

    “The church is changing right now…”
    This is very true and we are even told that this “change” will happen in the last age. I used to wonder why Jesus said only a few would enter into true life and as Christendom is “changing” I can now see more and more what He was referring to. Matter of fact many things that Jesus and those that He choose as His witnesses said are making more sense as time goes by. There were many in the first century and there will be many in these days that will not stay within the boundary of sound truth and doctrine. They will follow their own feelings and desires and not the tried and sound teachings of Jesus. One thing we must understand. It is not just homosexuality or transsexualism that is the only change, there will be changes in every area of human life and as time goes by the sanctity of the body and human life will erode to just simple pleasures for a season. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power.

  • Russ Westbrook

    Without conversion, no man can walk long with Christ. I thank God this false prophet has been revealed, so he can no longer influence the people of Christ; but I pray for those who looked up to him, that Christ will remind them to trust in Him, not in men.

    • TheBottomline4This

      I’d never heard of the guy before this article. Sadly he’ll still have some who are Christians as fans and will support his choice to walk this path. I hope their eyes are opened to the truth.

      • Dyros

        My wife loves Christian music. Asked her about this “artist”…she never heard of him. Must be a small audience.

  • mwmog

    This man is tragically deceived. He thinks being gay is who he is. He is not! Obviously, same-sex attraction is a problem for him and instead doing his part, relying on help from Christ to overcome, he is succumbing to his lustful desires. Now he is relishing in the attention given to him by the secular media. He can say that he is more in love with Jesus and scriptures more than ever all he wants. But there is no way that’s true.

    “The musician,……………, said that he finds it “damaging” when ministers call homosexuality a choice.”
    That is light being shed on the darkness in his heart. It’s the convicting Power of the Holy Spirit. Yet, he either denies or doesn’t recognize it and instead, claims to find it damaging.

    • [email protected]

      light does not come in the form of an untruth. Homosexuality is not a choice and sexual orientation is part of who people are. now this is not to say that he would need to act on it. he could have chosen celibacy or given the relationship he was in he could have said he was gay and try to keep the relationship going with sex off the table however in either of those options he would still be gay and still attracted to the same sex. in this case either being free to come out and then chose celibacy or being free to come out and then have the option to act on that would have preventing this situation from happening in the first place. the worst option is to keep people in the closet or push unrealistic demands of change.

      • Slidellman4life

        Dude, drop the “homosexuals are born that way” garbage. That was proven false a long time ago and “take my word for it” won’t wash around here.

        • Ronald Carter

          Source please.
          And have a look at the APA website sometime if you want to continue lying that it was “proven false”.

          • Slidellman4life

            Shut up, Ronnie. Nobody is talking to you.

          • Ronald Carter

            You don’t make the rules here.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Neither do you Ronny.

          • Ronald Carter

            I’m not trying to enforce any rules.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Any website you share is biased Ronny, so we no longer go to them.

          • Ronald Carter

            The American Psychological Association website is biased.
            Right.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Now days, sadly yes.

        • [email protected]

          No it was not at all proven false. homosexuality is a natural and normal variation of human sexuality just like heterosexuality. I see that you dive into what you as the alternative explanation in another comment so I will continue the conversation there as to avoid needless repetition.

          • Slidellman4life

            No it was not at all proven false.

            According to who? You?

            I had heard of these so-called discoveries, spurred on by the insistence of the LGBTQW crowd. Unfortunately, 100% of these “discoveries” have turned out to be flawed, self-serving or both.

            You add to that fact there is a video from Ryan Sorba that has homosexuals freely admitting they had been molested as children by other homosexuals, and the “born that way” myth takes a well-deserved header into the rubbish bin.

          • [email protected]

            here is the thing, we do not know exactly what causes the difference in the formation of sexual orientation but that also means that we do not know exactly how heterosexuality forms either. what we do know is that both form early enough and consistently enough across a variation of backgrounds that it is caused naturally and by normal processes.

            we also know that none of the counter “explanations” hold and water. for example there is ZERO support for the idea that sexual abuse causes homosexuality and the fact that some gay people were sexually abused as kids does not mean that it caused their homosexuality. Not only is that link not supported but then what do you do about all the gay people who were not sexually abused? how do you explain their homosexuality?

          • Slidellman4life

            here is the thing, we do not know exactly what causes the difference in the formation of sexual orientation

            Yes, we do. I already went over that.

            but that also means that we do not know exactly how heterosexuality forms either.

            No explanation is needed. It is normal, and only deviations from that norm need explanation.

            for example there is ZERO support for the idea that sexual abuse causes homosexuality

            According to whom?

            Not only is that link not supported but then what do you do about all the gay people who were not sexually abused? how do you explain their homosexuality?

            Through the dissemination of homosexual propaganda.

            See, three years ago, there was a movement among the American LGBTQW crowd and their ever faithful supporters to boycott the Sochi Olympics in Russia, over what was referred to a “‘g-y’ rights issue” but without ever saying exactly what the issue was.

            It turned out the hubbub was all about a law that was passed the year before that prohibited the dissemination of homosexual propaganda to minors. Why keep that information out of the media, if the motivation was innocent and harmless?

            It’s because you can always tell when the LGBTQW crowd is lying: Their collective lips move.

          • [email protected]

            Oh how convenient, we do not know exactly how heterosexuality forms either but you say it is natural therefore we do not need to explain it. well using that logic given that the relevant professional organisations say that homosexuality is normal I guess we do not need to explain it either. But no, if we need to explain one we need to explain the other and they are both going to generate from the same path.

            according to whom? this is from the SPLC response to this argument

            “No scientifically sound study has definitively linked sexual orientation or identity with parental role-modeling or childhood sexual abuse.

            The American Psychiatric Association noted in a 2000 fact sheet available on the Association of Gay and Lesbian Psychiatrists, that dealing with gay, lesbian and bisexual issues, that sexual abuse does not appear to be any more prevalent among children who grow up and identify as gay, lesbian or bisexual than in children who grow up and identify as heterosexual.

            Similarly, the National Organization on Male Sexual Victimization notes on its website that “experts in the human sexuality field do not believe that premature sexual experiences play a significant role in late adolescent or adult sexual orientation” and added that it’s unlikely that anyone can make another person gay or heterosexual.

            Advocates for Youth, an organization that works in the U.S. and abroad in the field of adolescent reproductive and sexual health also has stated that sexual abuse does not “cause” heterosexual youth to become gay.

            In 2009, Dr. Warren Throckmorton, a psychologist at the Christian Grove City College, noted in an analysis that “the research on sexual abuse among GLBT populations is often misused to make inferences about causation [of homosexuality].”

            so what exactly is this propaganda that makes people gay? in Russia “gay propaganda” means any public statement in support of gay people or gay rights. holding a rainbow flag can get you arrested for violating the “propaganda” law. any of my posts here would count as a violation of Russia’s “propaganda law” so the fact that they passed a law does not mean that there is any real propaganda going on, rather that they simply classified any public pro-gay statement as “propaganda”

      • mwmog

        “light does not come in the form of an untruth”

        That is true. Light does not come in the forth in an untruth.

        However, I respectfully don’t agree that it’s a choice. The notion that it’s not a choice is a lie and is deceiving many people, including Christians. I’ve been part of Christianity for a long time. I know better than to buy into that. This is part of the great falling away explained in the Bible in regards to end-times prophecy.
        This man obviously does not have the Power of the Holy Spirit residing in him, whom will guide him out of those desires. His gay and lustful desires would eventually die and he would be free from it.
        But without the guidance of the Holy Spirit in him, he mistook his desires for being a part of who he is and allowed them to grow and overwhelm him. Plus, he didn’t love Jesus enough to denounce it.
        From a worldly standpoint, your argument makes sense, but it is an untruth. God’s Word trumps that. Everybody is born into sin. There are people who once lived gay lifestyles and have turned from that sin with the Power of the Holy Spirit showing them the way out.

  • Charlene Rollins

    He can sing Highway to Hell now. Cause that is where he is going

    • Ronald Carter

      Feel that Christian love…

      • TheBottomline4This

        Did Charlene claim she was Christian? Maybe she is not, but is still able to see the truth. Even if she is, what she said is true of all of us, unless we repent and accept Jesus Christ as our Saviour.

        • Ronald Carter

          Last time I checked, most Christians left the judging to God. So when one of you says someone you don’t even know is going to hell, I wonder who promoted you to God.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Read the whole Bible then get back to me on that Ronny.

          • Ronald Carter

            Read it many times. Jesus was silent on the subject, and the passages that refer to it have been thought to refer to male prostitution. So you don’t have consensus on the issue.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Many? Sure you have.
            Those who support gay sex are known to twisting the verses that do apply and it isn’t surprising. God doesn’t support gays having sex Ronny. Sorry you won’t see that.

          • Joe

            Ronald, here are the passages you are referring to and it is not male prostitution that is being referred to.

            Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies
            between themselves:
            26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even
            their women did change the natural use into that which is
            against nature:
            27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the
            woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men
            working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves
            that recompence of their error which was meet.
            28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their
            knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those
            things which are not convenient;

          • hytre64

            When GOD has said that certain categories of people are going to Hell and then people self-identify as say that they are part of that group, then they have said that that IS where they are going UNLESS they repent and turn to Jesus.

            1 Cor 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

      • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

        Not telling people that they r going to be sent to hell is worldly hate, eg like the worldly n power-crazy liberals being politically-correct in their speech, in order to pander for votes from the Blacks, Hispanics, feminists, etc by not ‘hurting’ their sensitive feelings.

        MATT.5: =
        ” 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.”

        REV.21: =
        ” 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[e]
        abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all
        liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and
        brimstone, which is the second death.”

    • Dyros

      I used to say “See ya at the BBQ”…moral high ground lost there…

  • Jamin Taylor

    This poor man is sadly out of touch with reality and has chosen his own “feelings” over the everlasting, unchanging truth of God’s word. This man is having an identity crisis of epic proportions and the church, sadly, is unaware of how to deal with this problem. Galatians 2:20 says that “it is no longer I who lives, but Messiah who lives in me.” We are called to take up our cross, and follow Messiah, denying ourselves and finding new life, and a new identity, in Him and Him alone. Unfortunately, our modern, U.S. church culture is producing this sort of behavior and not taking steps to effectively deal with it.

  • Mary Taylor

    These people feed off of Christians who just turn their head the other way as though this is okay. The man wants to live in sin and call himself a Christian. All sexual perversion is sin, adultery, fornication, sexual molestation, homosexuality, but gays want this sin to be considered okay. Not in the eyes of a Holy and Righteous God. It should not be okay for Christians or for Christians to turn the other way. These people need to repent.

    • Dyros

      The early church had the same problem. Apostle Paul was quick on that in his epistles…
      Plant a church…Satan tries to infiltrate. Nothing new under the sun.

  • DoodyDoo

    he’s a poster child for degenerate. He loves his sin more than God. Many have been delivered by Jesus from homosexuality…he can be one too

  • Tom Hanig

    Here’s a thought for those who think their sexuality is their identity. It isn’t who you are. It will all leave you in old age or before then and then you’ll die and after that the judgment ( Hebrews 9.27-28). Then you’ll be in God’s hands and by yourself you’ll have no explanation or way of justifying all the the bad things you’ve done in the flesh. Leviticus 18.22 says that homosexuality is a sin and God does not change his mind. So unless this sinner or any sinner repents and accepts Jesus Christ as his savior he will have no justification in the eyes of a righteous God. Tell the man to repent before he is lost forever.

  • Arlene Kadrich

    This is sad. While I agree that homosexuality is sin, I also think that the church has a hard time ministering to those in the SS lifestyle because they turn a blind eye to the mess in their own house. How can we expect to reach anyone when divorce outside of biblical circumstances is not addressed, sex outside of marriage and pornagraphy is common place in the church and affairs are not acknowledged or dealt with. God calls His people to be set apart, once we live lives of chastity and celibacy in love, then we will be able to reach those struggling with sexual sin. Only when we as a people get our own house in order can we approach others in love and power.

  • Ashley J Lee

    we all have a cross to bare…… and narrow is the way. this man needs prayer and as well his wife and children.. I pray he does not cause her to be an adulteress for his own selfishness and that he realizes the bigger testimony of God’s glory that can be brought about… I have thought before how someone addicted to crack/heroin/whatever/ssa may be tempted throughout life but choose to deny the temptation, choose to choose God and what makes Him happy.. divorce is an act of hatred PERIOD (considering it is both’s first marriage which is until death)

  • dan

    Don’t be deceived Christians. Things are going get worse. Wickedness will prosper in the last days. Stick to word of God , watch who and what you listen to. The wages of sin is death. There’s coming a payday for evil doers.

  • Sage

    Guys. Come on. We all know that if a desire to commit an act comes naturally to you, we must always act on it and refuse to suppress. That’s what denying yourself means, right?

    • Ronald Carter

      If that act is falling in love, why would you suppress it?

      • hytre64

        So, even though I am married, I shouldn’t deny myself falling in love with another woman?

        Does your wife know that you think this way?

        • Ronald Carter

          Why are you changing the subject? I said nothing about adultery.

          I said if you fell in love, why would you suppress it? Referring to gay single people, of course.

          • hytre64

            Your statement “If that act is falling in love, why would you suppress it?” is very similar to statements that people commonly use to rationalize adultery – “I couldn’t help myself – I fell in love with her” – Which is a crock of bovine excrement. You can choose to not “fall in love” with someone. You can choose not to be around them, You can choose what thoughts about them you allow to remain in your mind. You can choose whether or not to flirt with them.

            Yes – If an action is called Sin by God, then those of us who believe in Him and are Christians should suppress our natural/fleshly/sinful desires.

  • Vickie Cooker

    The battlefield is in the mind!!!… Knowing right from wrong!!!… This person do not know God!!!.. I don’t care if he been in church all his life that don’t make you a Christian nor know God… This person is control by the devil… The flesh is his God…

  • esther medina dorado

    Can’t stand this show..ugh..dont even know why i stopped to listen

  • Ivette Santiago

    He doesn’t believe he can change….my that’s very telling because he’s basically calling God a liar and he is an idolater since his desire is to simply live his life pleasing himself. He has no understanding of the concept of denying himself, picking up his cross and following Christ. It’s unfortunate because if he doesn’t have a change of heart he runs the serious risk of being given over to a completely reprobate mind and that’s horrific!

  • Vickie Cooker

    The musician, who is scheduled to perform at a homosexual pride event next week, said that he finds it “damaging” when ministers call homosexuality a choice.

    “There are still people that are teaching these hurtful things and they are the ones that get scared when millions of people connect with it,” he stated. “And they want to say that you’re the false teacher, but they never start to think that it’s their false teaching that causes things like this to happen in the first place.”

    You think the truth hurts wait until you see God face to face… No compare to God’s hurt!!!… God’s hurt will be forever and ever no go back.. and that hurt is separation from God…that why people are trying to show and tell you, you are wrong in doing this!!!… and for you to blame your behavior on the people who are telling you the right thing and they are the false teachers is a lie straight from the pits of hell.. I pray to God that he will open your eyes and heart up to the real truth before it is to late for you…

  • ComeOnPeople!

    Being healthy for his kids??? Go study up on the affects of homosexuality on families and on gay peoples health. It is not a healthy lifestyle & it destroys families. Don’t believe propaganda lies people! All sexual activity is a choice . No one has to have sex. Everyone could have sex with anyone or anything but most choose to refrain from immoral sexual behavior. Why because their GOD given conscience tells them it’s wrong & the word of God confirms it. There are many many sexual choices listed in the bible that are sins, not just Homosexuality.

    As to him singing about Jesus … well hate to tell them but the bible says there will be those who preach another Jesus and there will be false teachers of that Jesus. Any Jesus who does not keep the law of God perfectly and teach HIS disciples to follow HIM in like manner is a false Messiah. The word of God says that homosexuality is wrong therefore if you say your Jesus is not against it then you are serving a false Messiah & the preachers you are listening to who say it’s ok are false teachers.

    • Jalapeno

      Yes, choosing to have sex is a choice.

      You don’t choose who to be attracted to though…so the relevant choice is whether or not to keep pretending to be someone you aren’t.

      • ComeOnPeople!

        If a man was attracted to his goat, I think the wise thing to do is keep that between himself and his goat. If a woman is married yet attracted to men other then her husband well it just might be wise to not act upon that attraction. If a man or woman is attracted to infants sexually it may not be wise to act upon that attraction . If a man is married to a woman and they have children together, it’s not wise to act upon an attraction to men. We all have attractions , thoughts and ideas but all of us know that some attractions, thoughts and ideas if acted upon are not healthy for us or for those around us.

        • Jalapeno

          “If a man is married to a woman and they have children together, it’s not wise to act upon an attraction to men.”

          It’s not wise to pretend to want to be in a marriage either.

          So..maybe he should, you know, tell his wife the situation and end the marriage if they don’t both decide to stay in it. Crazy idea.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            You missed the whole point .

            First off the word of God which he claimed he was a follower of states that one cannot divorce for any reason other then if their spouse cheats on them. Whether he is attracted to dogs, other woman, infants , his sister or men, he is bond by his vow made with his wife and should not act upon his attractions outside of his marriage.

            That being said my other points in regard to attractions & thoughts still stands. Everyone has thoughts and attractions that go against the word of God but those who serve God try not to ever act upon thoughts or attractions that are displeasing to HIM. Should they fail, their conscience tells them they need to return to God’s ways and depart from their own. Should they continue to transgress HIS instructions HE will one day turn them over to their own lusts and sear their conscience. We must test out thoughts and attraction using the word of God.

          • Jalapeno

            ” he is bond by his vow made with his wife and should not act upon his attractions outside of his marriage”

            I wholeheartedly agree that he should not cheat…that doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t actually talk to his wife, take a look at his OWN interpretation and priorities of beliefs..

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Yes we all should talk about things but when it’s all said and done, if one claims to follow and serve God, their decisions & actions must be based upon HIS instructions and not their feelings, thoughts or attractions.

      • Amos Moses

        And he is pretending to be a christian ………… and yet he has chosen to not be by his actions ……………

        • Jalapeno

          What makes you the determiner of what “Christian” is?

          It fits the definition of Christianity, and many denominations consider it to be perfectly valid.

          • Amos Moses

            “What makes you the determiner of what “Christian” is?”

            Scripture does ………….. 1 Corinthians 5 & 6 ………… We ALL as christians get to judge those who say they are but are not ……… who are christians and who are ravening wolves pretending to be …….

            “It fits the definition of Christianity, and many denominations consider it to be perfectly valid.”

            No ………. they are not ………..

          • Jalapeno

            “We ALL as christians get to judge those who say they are but are not”

            Okay..so they can judge you and claim you’re not Christian. Glad we agree.

          • Amos Moses

            Sure they can ………..

          • Jalapeno

            Let me guess..you’re right and they’re wrong because you’re right about the interpretations and they’re wrong.

          • Amos Moses

            There is no private interpretation of scripture …… if it is a private interpretation … then it is no longer scripture ………scripture interprets scripture …….. nothing else … anything else is adding to scripture …… and is forbidden by scripture ………

          • Jalapeno

            That’s weird.

            There’s..lots of people who interpret it different ways.

            So..you’re the one who’s right and they’re all the ones who are wrong, right?

          • Amos Moses

            scripture is right ………….. anything else is nonsense ………..

            Galatians
            1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
            1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
            1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

          • Jalapeno

            Who’s interpretation is correct? Someone else can say THEIR interpretation is right and YOURS is nonsense.

          • Amos Moses

            There is no private interpretation of scripture …… if it is a private interpretation … then it is no longer scripture ………scripture interprets scripture …….. nothing else … anything else is adding to scripture …… and is forbidden by scripture ………

          • Jalapeno

            You think that “scripture interprets scripture” to mean one thing.

            Another person thinks that “scripture interprets scripture” to mean something else.

          • Amos Moses

            The only one qualified to interpret scripture ……… Gods word ……… who is God …….. God is His word ……… is God …….. as His word ………… We have no authority to alter it ONE IOTA …. by scripture ………. Deuteronomy 4:2, Deuteronomy 12:32, Proverbs 30:6, Galatians 1:8-9, Revelation 22 18-21

          • Jalapeno

            Okay. Sure.

            Of course..the bible doesn’t actually specifically touch on every single possible aspect of every possible situation and often has contradictory and conflicting advice.

            So..one person thinks that the “scripture interpreted the scripture” to mean one thing.

            Another person thinks it means another.

            How do you determine which is right?

          • Amos Moses

            “Of course..the bible doesn’t actually specifically touch on every single possible aspect of every possible situation and often has contradictory and conflicting advice.”

            Sure. Sure …….. but you are WRONG …….. and it does not have to …….. just as the law of men does not have to …………. if you take something that does not belong to you …… it is still theft ………… scripture read … in context ……… will answer just about any question …. and it is not contradictory ……………. but you certainly are… contradictory …….

          • Jalapeno

            Oh this is hilarious.

            Where do you think I contradicted myself?

            I’m glad you agree though. The bible doesn’t touch on everything. Sometimes…it doesn’t touch on an exact situation and two different people think it suggests one thing about that situation, someone else thinks it suggests something else.

            Do you just assume that everyone except for you is wrong and you’re the only one who can possibly figure out what it says?

          • Amos Moses

            Homosexuality is good and healthy and normal ……………. is that right?

          • Jalapeno

            It’s just neutral…

            There’s nothing unhealthy or healthy about it. Pretending to be someone else…pretending to be attracted to women just to satisfy some people *cough cough* though..that’s unhealthy.

          • Amos Moses

            So again …………. you cannot be honest …………. and it is a contradiction ………….

          • Jalapeno

            That is honesty, and truth.

            How is it a contradiction?

          • Amos Moses

            No …….. it is a lie …………. because that is all you have ……………..

          • Jalapeno

            You’re basing that on what, exactly?

            The fact that you disagree, and you’ve decided you’re right because you’re right?

          • Amos Moses

            Homosexuality is aberrant ……….. it is not normal or “neutral” ………… that is a lie …… based on science which i have given you repeatedly ………….. do you need to have it posted again so that you may IGNORE the science …………………

          • Jalapeno

            No..you’ve shown that anal sex, particularly unprotected anal sex is bad..and being socially ostracized is bad.

            Being gay has absolutely nothing innately bad about it except for the fact that some people disapprove.

          • Amos Moses

            Obituraries numbering 6516 from 16 US homosexual journals over 12 years were compared to a large sample of obituaries from regular newspapers. The obituaries from the regular newspapers were similar to US averages for longevity, the median age of death of married men was 75, 80% of them died old, 65 or older. For unmarried or divorced men the median age of death was 57 and 32% of them died old.

            Married women averaged age 79 at death, 85% died old, and unmarried and divorced women averaged age 71, and 60% of them died old.

            However, the median age of death for homosexuals was virtually the same nationwide, and overall, less than 2% survived to old age. If AIDS was the cause of death, the median age was 39 years old. For the 829 homosexuals who died of something else besides AIDS, the median age was 42 years of age, and 9% died old. Of 163 lesbians, the median age was 44 years of age, and 20% died old. 2.8% of homosexuals died violently and they were 116 times more apt to be murdered, 24 times more apt to commit suicide, and had a traffic accident death rate 18 times greater than comparably aged white males. 20% of lesbians died of murder, suicide, or accident, a rate 487 times greater than that of white females aged 25 to 44.

          • Jalapeno

            Try reading what I said.

          • Amos Moses

            “Being gay has absolutely nothing innately bad about it except for the fact that some people disapprove.”

            The posted statistics prove OTHERWISE …………….

          • Jalapeno

            Not at all.

            Do you know what it means to be “innately risky”?

          • Amos Moses

            Early DEATH is an indication ……………….. IT IS NOT SAFE ………… under any circumstances ……….. and “innately risky” ……………. unless you want to believe a lie …………

          • Jalapeno

            Do you know what “innately risky” would mean?

          • Amos Moses

            Sure, sure ………… question is …………. what is your “postmodern, it means what I want it to mean” idea of what it means …………… never mind ………….. it is not worth hearing …….. it is a lie in any regard …………….. as that is all you have ……………. sophistry and casuistry ……

            the clever use of arguments that seem true but are really false, in order to deceive people

          • Jalapeno

            Okay..what exactly do you think it means then when someone says that being gay is not INNATELY risky?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Thank you again for this data.

  • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

    ROM.1:18-32 says that God cursed people into becoming homosexuals for knowingly rejecting Him n/or His Law. IOW, homosexuals like to live n do according to what is right in their own eyes n not be hampered by this law or that law.(JUDGES.17:6) This curse/change into homosexuality often happens during adolescence or shortly after the age of puberty n knowing good n evil.
    …….The false teaching of “Lazy Grace” where Christians r taught to ignore the Law n become lawless just bc they hv been saved by faith n not by the Law, …enabled the lawless homosexuals to feel right at home in these false liberal Churches, eg PCUSA, ECUSA, etc.

    Was any of the 120 apostles n disciples of Christ who experienced the Pentecost of ACTS.2 reported as homosexual or later became homosexual or LGBTQ.?
    …….Did Paul accept the LGBTQs in the Church.?

    MATT.7:23 =
    23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

    MATT.13: =
    41 The
    Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His
    kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

  • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

    This singer knew that he was gay since adolescence, yet he went on to marry a girl n hv 2 kids with her, n is now divorcing her n the 2 kids = he has caused great harm to the girl n kids. This proves that many homosexuals r evil n lawless people.
    …….Likely, he got married n used his wife n kids, in order to hv a good Christian reputation n to achieve success in the Christian music scene. If he was an openly gay Christian rocker, he would not hv been as well received by Christian music fans. Now that he has accomplished most of his desires/goals, there is no more need for the wife n kids, hence his coming out as a gay n the divorce.

  • Nidalap

    Sad…another family shattered…

  • Joe M

    I’m guessing that his god and my God are not one in the same.

  • Rosalind Tilton

    He needs checkout homosexuality 101. Com

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    “Not all Christians believe that same-sex attraction is a choice, but rather a part of the Adamic sin nature that must be regenerated by the second birth.” Are they going to excuse pedophilia and incest and cannibalism saying the same thing? Those Christians are wrong. Some depravities are clearly a depravity even apart from Christianity; conversion to Christianity is not required to see that point. Post-christian West is questioning everything norm even for pagan humans. Post-christian morality is inferior to even Pre-christian barbarism. The Western culture needs Judeo-Christian values to be normal again. The West must retain at least the freedom for people to classify homosexuality and transgender as sin. Otherwise, liberty and human rights will be lost. Human cultures are all blind and depraved one way or another, but the Post-christian culture is the worst of all.

  • Mark

    Just goes to show, it is better to put your faith in God, than put your trust in man. Even if the man (or woman) claims to be Christian.

  • Eunice Hipe

    Trey Pearson, you said. ” I feel like I’m more in love with Jesus and the Scriptures than ever as I’ve progressed in my faith and as I’ve experience this grace, this restoration, this being able to embrace truth without being scared of what people that live in fear feel like.”

    1. In John 14:15 Jesus says, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

    2. In John 15:10 He says, “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.” If you are more in love with Jesus there is obedience to abide in Him, not how you feel. Jesus is asking you to abide, obey Him, you cannot do it by yourself, but the results the truth (Scripture) written in your heart as the Holy Spirit leaving in you. However, I don’t know who is dwelling in your heart, because, we have to fear God in reverence that God created you as a man. God did not make mistake and how you feel, doesn’t change you to be a gay. For instance, if I feel to kill somebody, do I have the right to kill because I feel like killing? So, because, you feel that being a gay or feeling like a gay is a right for you proclaim that God made a mistake.

    3. ” this being able to embrace truth without being scared of what people that live in fear feel like.” It is obvious you fear people than God ” . Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but love from the Lord is its completion.
    “Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matthew 10:28).

    4. “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. John 14:15
    5. I understand you. However, God never lies, the choice to obey God or feel like a gay. It is not easy to be in your position, yet, God is a master of healing.

  • Nick

    Here’ something that may help somebody somewhere…..? I was involved in street evangelism for 14 years in the seediest night spot areas in Perth W.Australia. In that time I was confronted on several occasions by a Homosexual, who professed to having homosexual attractions, since they were a small child. Now bear in mind these were the exceptions….Not the rule ! The Homosexuals who have a demarcation line, as to when they chose this lifestyle are relatively easy to deal with, as this falls under a willful ‘Choice’ (and they know it)! But if a person claims that they’ve ‘always been this way’, in their minds, it absolves them from any responsibility. So I had this dilemma with dealing with two different types of Homosexuals. I already knew that Leviticus 18 says ; Ye shall not lay with a man, as you would a woman, for it is ‘abomination’ unto me, saith The Lord’ its even in the same chapter as Gods warning against BEASTIALITY and it says, that this is an ‘abomination’ too! But something caught my attention in Exodus Chapter 20 that says; I will visit the iniquity of the fathers, unto the third and fourth generation! So here it is, I believe that in the case of the latter, they are born with a curse…..Most of us have no idea of the lifestyles of our ‘Great’ or ‘Great Great Grand Parents’ let alone any of their secrets? When will we get it in our heads that our thoughts, words and actions do not stop with us, but will have a profound effect on others besides? Sin hasn’t got a hand brake! Here’s the promise of Gods word ‘I will visit the iniquity of the fathers, unto the third and fourth generation’ Conversely ‘A good man leaves an inheritance for his children’s children PROVERBS 13;22a Galatians says; ‘Be not deceived God is not mocked….Whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap’ Could it be, that these people are born with 3 strikes against them ? and while this is a baseball term, it is a perfect picture of someone born ‘under, or with a curse’. At which point Demonic activity is heightened ! Only the Blood of Jesus can deliver and set a person free! Don’t you love that verse in Galatians 3;13 that says; Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, for it is written; cursed is everyone that hangs upon a tree! Hello…..Jesus was hung upon that tree/cross and bare our curses on Himself !!!!
    Be careful how you share this information. God Bless you guys. Nick

    • Ken Faivor

      I have been saying that for quite some time, in fact, I said it down below yesterday. The curse is transferable through the blood. It’s the same as a person has a tendency to be an alcoholic, that too runs in families, or the curse of a degenerative disease like diabetes.

      The good news is that Christians are delivered from the curse…..all of it. As the curse come down through the blood so does the cure. The cure come from His blood.

      Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling them that have been defiled, sanctify unto the cleanness of the flesh:
      Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish unto God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

      Gal_3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

      • Nick

        Nice one Ken

  • Reason2012

    Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

    Homosexual behavior is most literally pointed out as a sin, and God has not changed on that regard. But if a person has those inclinations but does not act upon them, does not dwell in lust upon others, but is instead struggling against them to avoid them, then it’s not a sin. It’s just like sinful inclinations of any kind: it’s acting upon it when it becomes a sin.

    And this is what God says about sin and specifically the behavior of homosexuality:

    Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

    Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

    Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

    The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

    Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

    God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

    Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

    Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

    Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

    Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

    And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

    And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

    And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

    These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

    Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination …”

    Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

    Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

    Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

    1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

    1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

    2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

    And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

    Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

    Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

    And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

    Live forever, people – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world.

    May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

    • Aaron

      Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

      Do you have any evidence to back that up?

  • Shelly

    The acceptance of homosexuality in our society is from indoctrination from the media, hollywood and other sources. The more a society is presented with sin as normal behavior, the more people chart that course for their lives and accept sin as normal. Look what happened with divorce, society changed in the 70’s and said divorce was ok – millions proceeded to divorce. Look at abortion, society said that was ok – millions of babies have been murdered. The small segement in society who is pushing homosexuality as a normal way of life has won their victory, it is accepted by many now. Problem is that people are allowing societal norms to led them in the right direction and dictate what is right and wrong. People should never conform to society. People should always be conforming to Jesus – we have it all backward folks!

  • DLCraig

    Regardless of their position inside or outside the visible church all enemies of Christ (LGBTQ, Atheists, ETC) claim to have arrived at their rejection of sound Christian doctrine through logical consistency or other intellectual or spiritual paths.

    But the obvious truth is that they make those claims in order to mask and even support the moral choices they’ve made and that know are contrary to God’s word and His plan for their lives. They, like so many, want it all. They want to sin and be thought righteous. They want to sin and have God bless their sin. They want to engage in all manner of dreadful activities and have it be thought normal and acceptable. So they have no choice but to invent a God and a Savior that supports the perversion du jour.

    The flatulent gas-bags on the view fawn over them offering support and praise for their “bravery” and the lost dutifully applaud — But soon many more will weep than did clap for it.

  • Shirley Willis

    Disillusioned. The churches should NEVER say homosexuality is OK, because it goes against the Bible..the Word of God.

  • Barbara Richards

    Barbara Richards The fact that this guy KNOWS the truth and still walks away from it in order to pursue his own selfish “lusts?” God is very clear in His Word as is said in 2 Peter 2:21, “It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.” Woe to this rocker who “calls” himself a Christian. Jesus said in Luke 13:27-28, “I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, you evildoer. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.” The Kingdom of God will NOT be inherited by homosexuals. I Corin 6:9. God and His Word does not change. It is timeless. What He said then, He meant then. Black and white without ANY gray areas. Don’t label yourself a Christian as you wear those things that God opposes. I can only pray God gets ahold of this guy and that he has a Road to Damascus experience like Paul did. Will it take that? It must.

  • Jeanette Victoria ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

    Too evil for words…that man is leading people to perdition.

  • Patrick Van Der Ven

    First of all: homosexuality is not a choice. It is how we are born and how we are sexually programmed. So many people think a deliverance and cup of tea can change homosexual to heterosexual. It does not work. Exodus the ministry that endeavoured to change gay people to straight closed down after 40 years and apologised for the harm and hurt they caused gay people. Like the colour of our skin we do not choose to be gay. Being fat is choice; committing adultery is a choice and having sex before marriage is a choice; yet these behaviours are normalised within the church. There are not any programmes of persecution and systemic hatred practised against these people, even when the bible is clear that these are sins. The behaviour is tolerated and accepted. . Homosexual youth are taught they are intrinsically disordered or demon possessed. This leads to high rates of suicide amongst gay youth. It is 45 times higher within conservative Evangelical environments. Even this article implies this. What is even worse is they take a verse out of context. They translate the Greek ἄνωθεν. to be again, when it means above. This was not a universal statement of salvation,but a conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus.

    Trey needs to be congratulated for not living a lie:.for finally being true to himself and his family. They can get on with living their lives to the fullest. Those who would condemn him and would say he was deceitful marrying was him trying to fit into a stereotype that the church forced on him. I wish him well and I hope he finds love.

    • hytre64

      What you DO is always a CHOICE. Many men are attracted to multiple women, yet CHOOSE to remain faithful to one (or to be celibate). My children have made the CHOICE to forgo dating and remain celibate until they are married.

      • Patrick Van Der Ven

        ROFLMAO. Good luck with that . How about you don’t eat? You always have a choice.

        • hytre64

          I’ll agree to stop eating IF you agree to voluntarily stop breathing… ;-}

          Actions are always a choice. I have told you about the choices and actions my family takes. My eldest son was a virgin who hadn’t even kissed a girl until he kissed his bride at their wedding. His choice – his actions.

          I don’t have high expectations of non-believers. Heck, I don’t even have high expectations of believers – we all seem to back-slide at some point or another. It is not my standard, though, that matters. Jesus’ standard was, “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Mt 5:48)

          Fortunately, believers have an advocate with God the Father who understands our weakness and temptation to sin. When we repent of our sins, He puts our sins so far away from us that they literally cannot be found. The difficult part for some people is actually repenting and turning away from their sins.

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Right!!!! Of course you would say that. Here is something you will never know. Should your son be covering up his sexual activity you would never know. I never went home and said Mutti I had sex with a hot man. I do not think your son would give you a commentary on his love life. So please forgive my scepticism.

          • hytre64

            You are welcome to your scepticism. I, otoh, know of my son’s life.

            He never “dated” or had a girlfriend. So, no opportunities for sex there. He we initially became acquainted with his future bride through our church’s young adult group – as part of group activities. When he moved on to courting her, he (as a man of integrity) made sure that they were never “alone”, so that they both could resist temptation, while getting to know each other. Their testimony is that the first time they even held hands was when he asked her to marry him, and that the first time that they kissed was at the wedding ceremony.

            Hmmm… Who should I believe – my son whom I have seen walk with integrity for all of his life, whom my wife, my pastor, and myself have raised to the best of our ability to be a godly young man – or some anonymous gadfly on the Internet who knows nothing of us?

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Madam: your testimony is what you want to believe. I would find that an almost unnatural relationship where the first they kissed was on the wedding. Of course you would believe your son; you are a parent it goes with the territory. Do I believe it; no? It does not mean he has not had other women or men even if he had that unique experience with his beau from the Church.

          • hytre64

            1) I am not in any way shape or form a “Madam”. God made me a male and I am not confused about it.

            2) My son had five other siblings constantly hanging around him. Secrets just don’t hold up well in our family.

            3) Homeschooled – We know all of his friends and what he was doing all hours of the day.

            4) You might find his relationship “unnatural”. We find it to be “not-worldly”. All of his younger brothers and sisters are striving to follow the exact same path – as are most of their friends.

            5) Nothing “unique” about their experience. I know of at least 20 other young married couples in our church who have walked the same courtship-betrothal-marriage path. It’s how people in our church have been taught to lay a good foundation for marriage – which includes purity and chastity before marriage.

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            I am not here to impugn the veracity of your testimony in connexion with your son. I have known of people who have led double lives for years for years fooling their family and friends. Mein Herr that possibility exists with your son as well and any human being. However, I do warn you: that if he was so coddled in life there will come a time when he will wonder and be tempted of the life he could have had and will grow to resent it. Then you will see an assertion of himself.

          • hytre64

            I already DO see “an assertion of himself”.

            He is a fully grown man, who has his own job, earns his own promotions, has his own home, is married to his own wife, has two children of his own. He is also one of the stronger, faith-filled Christians that I know.

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Yes yes. My mother believed I can do wrong either.

    • Amos Moses

      “First of all: homosexuality is not a choice. It is how we are born and how we are sexually programmed.”

      First of all …… that is BALONEY ………

      • Patrick Van Der Ven

        Yes and being black is a choice.

        • Amos Moses

          Race and depravity ………….. not equal ……….. not the same thing ……….. and that is racist to suggest that being another race is depraved …….

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Really Amos? The use of derogatory language as depraved just show your biases. The same language has been used to justify discrimination, slavery, miscegenation and segregation laws used against blacks. I am glad you learned a thing or two from them, the bigots and are now using them to persecute other minorities. Yes if you were white you could be in the Klan. Oh and by the way it is not racist to equate sexuality and race on the same level. So often people pull the race card and no one is buying it anymore. Many of the great world religions that believe in reincarnation hold that you choose your body before you are born. So you are upholding that belief system by saying sexuality is choice.

          • Amos Moses

            “The use of derogatory language as depraved just show your biases.”

            Conflating race and depravity shows yours ………. and your comments in that area are …… In Fact ………….. RACIST ……………

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Really???? Dream on Amos. Sexuality is not a choice. The term depraved is emotive language and just shows your own particular biases. No one choose to be gay or straight or transgender, black or white. Blue eyed or brown eyed. So enjoy your beliefs, but stop being absurd. As I said bigots come in all shapes and sizes. PS here is the definition of racism and you are wrong on that score as well.:

            ra¦cism.

            [ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m

            NOU

            1.prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:
            “a programme to combat racism”

            synonyms: racial discrimination · racialism · racial prejudice/bigotry ·
            [more

            •the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
            “theories of racism”

          • Amos Moses

            “Sexuality is not a choice. ”

            Can you father a child? With a woman?

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            So are you saying all sexual activity is for procreation purposes? If you are then a vast majority of your cult are practising onanism.

          • Amos Moses

            I asked a question ………….. Can you father a child? With a woman?

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Oh I am sorry I did not realise I was in a court of law being cross examined by a Queen’s Counsellor.

          • Amos Moses

            So you are not only a liar ………… but a coward ………………. it is a simple question ………. Can you father a child? With a woman? ………… or do you just admit it is a choice …………. silence is assent ………..

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Well here is how the process would have occur. There would have to be gay porn and I would have to masturbate and someone would then have to inseminate the host. Oh I know they are called fertility clinics.

          • Amos Moses

            Any man can commit any sin………….. and they do ……………. because …… IT IS A CHOICE …….. cant see myself murdering anyone ………… but it happens everyday ……… not because men are born murderers …………. they are born SINNERS …………

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Right you demanded answers and I an answer. are you sexually attracted to men and could you have sex with them?

          • Amos Moses

            We are all attracted to sin ……… and it is a CHOICE ………….. i choose not that sin ………. you choose that sin ……….. BUT IT IS NO LESS A CHOICE …….. but your argument is that you are some kind of victim ……….. and that you have no choice ………….. and it is a LIE …………………

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            So you are saying you have homosexual attractions and could have sex with men? So either you are a repressed homosexual or an inveterate liar?

          • Amos Moses

            We are all capable of ANY sin ………………….. and it is a CHOICE ……….. you are capable of fathering a child ………. in whatever manner ………. IT IS A CHOICE …….

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            So you have homosexual feelings and tendencies? It is a simple question?

          • Amos Moses

            We all have a choice to make …………. you have made your choice …….. but you want to say it is not a choice ……….. i do not care what your “tendencies” are ……….. tendencies are just another word for choice ……….. i may want to steal money ……….. i have “tendencies” to do that ……….. does not make it ok to do that ……………… nor do your “tendencies” make what you do ok ……. there are consequences for your actions that you do not want to have ……. too bad ………….. get over yourself …………

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Amos please, I answered your question. it is simple yes or no answer: are you saying you find men attractive and would like to have sex with them? If you can’t or won’t answer that then you are the biggest hypocrite I have ever spoken to. Sanctimonious, opinionated, self centred, devoid of substance. Just like a fart. a lot of loud noise and vapour and leaves a foul odour.

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Coward I am waiting for an answer. You who claim sexuality is a choice. I am wanting to know: do you have homosexual tendencies, but repress them? Oh this is fun!!!

          • Amos Moses

            It is not sexuality you have chosen ………… it is sin ……………… it is a choice ………. i do not have homosexual “tendencies” ………….. i have other “tendencies” …………… but any man can CHOOSE any SIN ………….. if circumstances were such ……… sure ………. ANY of us could ….. Does not make it a good choice ………….. BUT IT IS CHOICE ………..

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            So to be clear here Amos you do not have any homosexual attraction?

          • Amos Moses

            To be clear …………. any man can and does choose to sin ………. it is not a “tendency” ……. it is SIN …………. and we are all sinners …………………. and ………… we can all be forgiven if we come to Christ in repentance ……… but your sin is more important to you than the Truth and Christ is …………..

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            Prevarication again, side stepping a simple question. If you won’t answer it and be honest, fine. Every other sentence you write is meaningless and baseless on the subject until you can clearly answer.

          • Amos Moses

            The only prevaricator here is you …………….. i have answered the question ……….. you just do not like the answer ……………

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            I answered your questions long ago when wanted answers. Now like a walking talking hypocrite you refuse to answer. You say homosexuality is a choice, so here is the question AGAIN. Are you sexually attracted to men? All it takes is a yes or no answer. As for not liking the answer to the question. I do not care if it is yes or no.

          • Amos Moses

            Asked and answered ………… your dislike of the answer or your inability to understand it is not my problem ………………… you may have the last word ……..

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            You were not clear : you danced around the subject like a swirling dervish. I am again repeat the question? Are you sexually attracted to males?

          • Patrick Van Der Ven

            You were so ready to push your preposterous ideas on others and now you cravenly flinch to answer a question. Go back under your bridge troll.

          • Amos Moses

            ISIS CHEERS ORLANDO TERROR MASSACRE
            Warns of more attacks in U.S., Twitter account shows killings of ‘gays’ by terror group

            The consequences of your choice and your plea for “tolerance” …………

  • Charles White

    Trey can quote all the scripture that he wants. He is setting a horrible example for our children. All Trey has shown is that the unsaved can quote scripture. Living a Christian life and then abandoning biblical principles is a good example of 1 John 2:19 “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” You cannot abandon Biblical principles and embrace an anti scriptural message and still call it Christianity. Trey referenced becoming a new creature or creation in Christ and yet it was his old nature that he has chosen to embrace. And Preachers need to stop preaching that homosexuality is a choice. This form of arguing only strengthens the opposition. It doesn’t matter if it is a choice or not. We live in a cursed world and there are those who truly are homosexual. sinful nature is imbedded in us all through our ancestry. There are many things that can influence a persons sexual orientation. The church needs to concentrate on teaching that sin comes in the form of desire and we need to know how to discern sinful desires from proper desires. This is why God told us to delight ourselves in the Lord and that He would give us the “DESIRES” of our heart. The bible didn’t say God would give us what our heart “DESIRES” but that the “DESIRES” we have will come from God. Pastor Charles

  • Anne Beverley Brewitt

    The bible talks against adultery and how no adulterer will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

  • Anne Beverley Brewitt

    The Bible says quite clearly no adulterer will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. So that is one count. It then goes on to say how the sexually immoral will not enter the kingdom of heaven, which includes a variety that come under this one.1 Corinthians 6:9-12

    • Ronald Carter

      Your Bible doesn’t really leave this guy much choice then. Sounds like he either has to live a lie or a loveless life, according to you.

      • hytre64

        There are more types of “Love” than that between a man & his wife. There is the love of a man for his children, there is the love (platonic) for others, and there is the love of a man for his God,

        Being celibate is not the same as being “loveless”.

        Sometimes, we are called to make the hard choices – which do we love more – the sin or our God.

        • Ronald Carter

          Nice whitewash, but your religion is basically telling this guy he can’t have sex with a person he loves and feels attracted to…unless it’s someone if the opposite sex, whom he physically CAN’T be attracted to.

          • hytre64

            Yes, you basically nailed it. It actually DOES say for one man not to have sex with another. Ditto for two women. Ditto for a man and his dog. Ditto for a man plus multiple women.

            I know that this might shock you, but some of us hold that there are things more important than having sex with someone else.

          • Ronald Carter

            Must be nice for you, there are no groups out there trying to dictate who you can or can’t have sex with. Easy for you to tell others they don’t need it when you have the freedom.

            And for the last time, a man and his dog is abuse, there is no mutual consent because an animal cannot consent.

          • hytre64

            Sure there are groups “trying to dictate who I can or can’t have sex with”. Prostitution is illegal where I live. Polygamy is illegal where I live. Bestiality is illegal where I live. Pedophilia is illegal where I live. Incest is illegal where I live…

            Actually – this male is “free” to have sex however he wants. The question is – Does he know the consequences & has he weighed the price? I cannot stop him. My God, though, has said that what he is doing is wrong and that there is a price to be paid for doing it.

          • Ronald Carter

            Always the comparisons between homosexuality and prostitution, bestiality, pedophilia, etc….it’s so lame and it’s gotten so old.

            I’ll rephrase then – no one’s telling you that the partner that you naturally fell in love with is wrong and that you should not be with them in a sexual way. And yet this is what you’re doing to other people. How offended would you be to be told that your loving and committed relationship is wrong? And justifiably so? And yet, this is exactly what you do to homosexuals.

          • Amos Moses

            “Always the comparisons between homosexuality and prostitution, bestiality, pedophilia, etc”

            No ………. actually it is a list …….. of things you cannot have sex with …… BY LAW …………. you know ……….. people TELLING them who and what they can and cannot ……….

  • hytre64

    “I want to see my church change. I want to see our denomination change,” – What he really means is, “I want GOD to change, so that homosexual conduct is no longer a sin.”

  • Suzanne Miranda

    When we become saved we make Jesus the Lord of our lives not Satan.

  • Houtex77

    The old man is still very alive in a Christian but we are crucified with Christ and are to live in resurrection life by means of the Holy Spirit.

  • Anne Gull

    He is obviously far from healthy. His mental WILLness has led him into mental illness. His spirit, soul, body, emotions and mind are all exceedingly unhealthy. Letting himself go as he now has given himself permission to live an undisciplined life exhibiting no self-control will cause a spiral downward to ever-increasing illness. Demonic activity is obviously present in his sin. Rebellion against Jesus is what he has chosen. Rejection of Jesus and His will and His way is what Trey is about. It’s all about Trey, not Jesus or his wife or his young, vulnerable, impressionable, defenseless children. Nobody’s story matters except for God’s! How pathetic this situation is. Even more unfathomable is how diabolical and grossly convoluted those who dare to call themselves Christian are supporting his sinful decision with great glee.

  • Guest

    And God warns all those who simply
    “approve of” these things . . .

    “For the wrath of God is
    revealed from heaven

    against all ungodliness and
    unrighteousness of men . . .

    For even their women exchanged
    the natural use

    for what is against nature
    (lesbianism).

    Likewise also the men, leaving
    the natural use of the woman,

    burning in their lust for one
    another,

    men with men committing what
    is shameful (homosexuality) . . .

    that those who practice these
    things are worthy of death (Hell),

    and not only those who do the
    same

    but also those who approve
    of those who practice them!”

    (Romans 1:18, 26, 27, 32)

  • Guest

    A stark warning to those who have
    been swayed by those speaking loudly, convincingly, and incessantly
    from the entertainment, educational, political, and ‘fallen away’
    church pulpits today – calling those things ‘Good’ that God’s Word
    clearly says are wrong and calling those who simply believe and try
    to follow God’s Word ‘Evil’ . . .

    “WOE to those who call
    evil good, and good evil;

    who put darkness for light,
    and light for darkness;”

    (Isaiah 5:20) (“Woe” is a
    terrible curse or torment … in this life or in Hell)

    Many people don’t believe they
    will be judged after they die. Yet, the Bible is clear when
    it says …

    “And as it is appointed for men
    to die once,

    but AFTER this the
    judgment”

    (Hebrews 9:27)

  • Guest

    2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 11 And for this cause God shall send
    them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:12 That they all might be damned who
    believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

  • danc51

    There is no such thing as ‘Christian Rock’. Rock and roll has it’s roots in pagan worship. You cannot turn a turd into a meal any more than you can Christianize something the devil intended for our destruction in the first place. His radical call for the church to embrace homosexuality is in line with the spirit of Rock and Roll. The same spirit that lives in Christian Rock.

  • Ron Duncan

    If he’s “embracing” homosexuality, he’s not following after Christ. Period. Whether one is “born that way” or not, is irrelevant. We are to be “born again” in Christ. We are to “deny ourselves” and take up our cross and follow Him. (Matthew 16:24) We must stop debating over the world’s arguments because they do not lead to repentance.

    Compassion for the struggles we have because of our sinful nature should be there without question, but one cannot “embrace” and “struggle” at the same time.

  • Zachary Goldberg

    Wow..his poor children…how incredibly selfish.

  • Georgia Devine

    Rick Warren has become still yet another preacher who is going for his own goal, not God’s. Do not listen to anything this man has to say, it might as well be straight out of the mouth of Satan. AND as for the news of this Christian singer who came out of the closet and announced he is gay? NEWS FLASH, YOU CANNOT BE CHRISTIAN AND GAY. That is a fact.

    • Amos Moses

      Local Woman Now Pickier Over Starbucks Drink Order Than Theology
      June 1, 2016

      BLUE SPRINGS, MO—Sources close to Anna Chapman, 39, have confirmed that the local woman and self-proclaimed believer in Christ is now pickier over the specific ingredients and preparation methods of her favorite Starbucks beverage than her theology.

      Chapman reportedly visits her local Starbucks coffee shop twice a day. She will only attend the location on the corner of Hamner Avenue and Quinns Street, as that specific store employs the only baristas knowledgeable enough to get her order exactly right. Meanwhile, she attends whatever church has the coolest name and the most convenient location in her area.

      Whenever she visits the coffee shop, she orders her favorite beverage. The drink is an off-menu specialty concoction that must be specially prepared using 0.5% milk, virgin espresso glasses, a “dash” of peppermint and a “swirl” of coconut oil, and hand-picked blueberries from the slopes of Mount Vesuvius. Her baristas are well aware that if any of these elements are not to her liking, the drink will be sent back countless times until it has been made to her satisfaction, all while she has whatever devotional first caught her eye at the Christian bookstore tucked under her arm.

      According to sources, when recently asked about her theological leanings, Chapman replied, “My what?” and went on to explain that her favorite authors are “Mark Lucado” and “that Joyce lady from TV.”

      BabylonBee …………

      • Michael Ellis

        fictional / satirical story

        • Amos Moses

          Of course ………. but it is funny …………. because it is true ……..

  • Amos Moses

    Romans 1 laid it all out and people said ….. “Naaaaahhhhhhh” …… but here it is ………Scripture proven right …..

    CANADA’S SUPREME COURT RULES SOME BESTIALITY LEGAL
    Sexual acts with animal criminal only if penetration involved

    wnd;com/2016/06/canadas-supreme-court-rules-some-bestiality-legal
    Replace the ; with a period ………

  • Ax2root

    Iniquity and sin both are names UNDER the POWER of the NAME and BLOOD of Jesus The Christ.

    Homosexuality is demonic desire .

    Let God be true and every man a liar that opposes The Word of God.
    The GOOD NEWS is that the power and authority of Jesus The Christ is GREATER than the power of the enemy,

    He and every person in demonic bondage to any sin can be delivered in the power of Jesus Christ who is Grace and Truth.

    The enemy is a liar.

  • Tom_C

    Committed adultery, abandoned his wife and children, fornicated and is living in sin.
    He wants our religion to change to accept his self-absorbed juvenile actions?
    Some “moral example.:
    No thanks .

  • Joan Galt

    “I want to see my church change. I want to see our denomination change…”

    Form your own Church of the Holy Perverts.

  • Enough already

    left his wife and children for that. Whatever he’s close to, I want no part of.

  • Enough already

    Gay for Jesus. Yeah, sure dude, sure.

  • Enough already

    Accepting Christ is the most important decision a Christian can make — yet he preaches accepting gayness.

  • Salt316

    God have mercy! 1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

  • Salt316

    For the preaching of the Cross is foolishness to them who perish, but to we who are saved, it is the power of God. 1 Cor. 1:18

  • archaeologist

    thinking one is a homosexual and coming out as one is not a biblical reason to leave your wife and family. this guy is so wrong and he does not love Jesus or the Bible

  • Shirley Webler

    Remember the Devil…Saten…Lucifer…knows Jesus personally, and he is most definitely NOT going to Heaven…He will be going straight to Hell.

  • Robert

    We as people can very Quickly fall into pagain worship by rejecting that Jesus had to shed his life blood for a sin we refuse to any longer see as sin. We loose the true faith Just as King David did with his sins of murder and adultry. GOD IS MERCYFULL AND RESTORED KING DAVID BY SENDING HIm the profit Nathan who by way of a story caused david to see his sins acknowedge them and repent. We pray for repentance of all sinners of who I am the worst.