United Methodists Nominate Three Openly Homosexual Candidates for Bishop Despite Prohibition

UMC Background-compressedTwo jurisdictions under the United Methodist Church have nominated openly homosexual candidates for bishop despite prohibitions against such appointments.

Karen Oliveto, David Meredith and Frank Wulf were all nominated during the meetings of the Western and North Central jurisdictions last month, with their nomination being publicly announced earlier this week by Reconciling Ministries, a homosexual advocacy group that professes to be Christian.

Executive Director Matt Berryman asserted that their nomination of the three was led by the Holy Spirit.

“On the heels of the 2016 General Conference, the Spirit of God is now raising up three openly gay candidates for the office of bishop,” he claimed in a blog post on Wednesday. “Building on the courage and work of the saints who have gone before, Dr. Karen Oliveto, Frank Wulf, and David Meredith are called by God to serve the church in sharing their gifts of visionary leadership for the life of the world.”

“As gay preachers of the gospel, these leaders followed Jesus into the margins of the church’s life where they pursued love and justice risking their own livelihoods and security,” Berryman stated. “We believe the new creation has begun — it’s time for The United Methodist Church to move boldly forward into the future and elect its first openly gay bishops to the glory of God and for the unfolding of a new future together.”

However, as previously reported, the United Methodist Book of Discipline outlines that “the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching” and that “self-avowed practicing homosexuals” may not be ordained as ministers in the denomination.

“While persons set apart by the Church for ordained ministry are subject to all the frailties of the human condition and the pressures of society, they are required to maintain the highest standards of holy living in the world,” the book reads.

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Recently, the 2016 United Methodist General Conference agreed not to vote on any proposals surrounding sexuality for the time being, but to form a commission to discuss the issue and review the denomination’s current policies.

“We will continue to explore options to help the church live in grace with one another—including ways to avoid further complaints, trials and harm while we uphold the Discipline,” the Council of Bishops said during a meeting on May 21.

Prior to the meeting and General Conference, Reconciling Ministries Network released a letter signed by over 100 homosexual or transgender United Methodist clergy in an effort to seek acceptance and accommodation despite the denomination’s stance based on biblical text that such behavior is sinful.

“While you have welcomed us as pastors, youth leaders, district superintendents, bishops, professors, missionaries and other forms of religious service, you have required that we not bring our full selves to ministry, that we hide from view our sexual orientations and gender identities,” the open correspondence stated.

The 111 signees also outlined that they wish to remain in the United Methodist denomination despite prohibitions against homosexual behavior and that they desire to “create a pathway of hope into ministry” for non-celibate homosexual youth who want to serve in leadership capacities. Over 500 homosexual and transgender clergy spanning various denominations signed a separate letter expressing support for the United Methodist leaders who came out in their correspondence.

However, not all United Methodist clergy and ministry leaders support homosexual behavior. In an article entitled “Why Many Methodists Still Oppose Same-Sex Marriage,” John Lemperis, the Director of the UM Action program of the Institute on Religion and Democracy, said that the Bible is crystal clear on the matter.

“Even liberal Biblical scholars now agree that the Old and New Testaments are very clear in their moral disapproval of homosexual practice,” he wrote. “More fundamentally, Scripture paints a beautiful picture of marriage as a holy covenant of intensely intimate, self-giving community between man and woman, uniting the two most basic, equal categories of humanity.”

“We submit to Jesus as Lord,” Lemperis stated. “If He is truly Lord, then no area of our lives can be off-limits to Him. Jesus spoke strongly about the centrality of self-denial in following Him, which often means dramatic personal sacrifices, including not acting on powerful desires for things outside of God’s best for us. … Jesus and new life in Him are more than worth it.”


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  • Michael A. Todd

    One could see this coming for a long time now. As the older church leaders and members pass on, the younger, more liberal leadership takes more control. Men and women interpreting the Bible to match their needs is the problem. Looking at the Bible as black and white, unchangeable and permanent is the solution. It says plainly that changing God’s Word brings curses and false teaching does also. These people cannot preach the Gospel and words from God while they don’t obey them at the same time.

    • Ronald Carter

      There is absolutely no reason these gentlemen cannot carry out the duties of bishop regardless of their sexuality.

      No reason at all.

      • Michael A. Todd

        General scriptures concerning Sodomy (seem real clear on what they mean)

        Gen 19:5 And they called to Lot, and said to him, Where are the men which came in to you this night? bring them out to us, that we may know them. Gen 19:6 And Lot went out at the door to them, and shut the door after him, Gen 19:7 And said, I pray you, brothers, do not so wickedly.

        Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Lev 18:23 Neither shall you lie with any beast to defile yourself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

        Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be on them.
        Lev 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and you shall slay the beast.
        Lev 20:16 And if a woman approach to any beast, and lie down thereto, you shall kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be on them.

        Deu 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
        Deu 27:21 Cursed be he that lies with any manner of beast. And all the people shall say, Amen.

        Jdg 19:22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spoke to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into your house, that we may know him.

        1Ki 14:24 And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
        1Ki 15:12 And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.
        1Ki 22:46 And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.

        2Ki 23:7 And he broke down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.

        Rom 1:24 Why God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
        Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
        Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
        1Co 6:9 Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

        1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for murderers,
        1Ti 1:10 For fornicators, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for enslavers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

        • Ronald Carter

          Why are you discussing sodomy? It’s not practiced by nearly all homosexuals, and IS practiced my many, many straight couples. And there is nothing in this article which states that these men are or are not celibate. They might be. You can be celibate and still be homosexual.

          Sodomy is irrelant here.

          • Ivette Elisa Santiago

            Regardless, if you are not 150% committed and submitted the the things of God, you cannot become involved in His ministry. It’s that difficult and that simple. To do do so to the contrary is to be disobedient and willful in His eyes…and it will gain you absolutely nothing to do so….you can’t earn brownie points with Him….

          • Ronald Carter

            If God seriously has such an issue with me, He can take it up with me. He’s God. You aren’t.

            And anyway, what do they have to do to “become involved in His ministry”? It’s not like they can just not be homosexuals anymore.

          • cadcoke5

            Scripture specifically commands us to judge those withing the church, and to put the evil doer out from among us. i Cor 5. All, fornication, including homosexuality is repeatedly described as a sin for the Church to judge. The proper action for the United Methodist Church is to obey scripture by pursuing church discipline against these men, and expelling them if they are unrepentant.

            Regarding your statement, “t’s not like they can just not be homosexuals anymore”. A man at my church is a counselor at a local prison, and specializes in ministering to sexual predators, who have repented of their sin. He says it is like these men have a “body memory” where their bodies still can be aroused when thinking of the kind of sin they are repenting of. But, they must guard themselves against it.

            It may be that the homosexual has abused their bodies enough with their sinful acts, and trained their mind to be aroused improperly, for so long, that they will not be able to end the feelings. That is, unless God specifically decides to supernaturally heal them of it. But, regardless of how they are tempted, they are called to live a Godly life, and not repeat these sinful acts.

            These men who are beingn promoted as Bishops by their local body, are not only sinning with the homosexuality, but by seeking to lead others away from God’s word.

          • rsheat

            “Why are you discussing sodomy? It’s not practiced by nearly all homosexuals,” Nothing like a lie from Satan.

          • bamared2222

            We are talking about practicing homosexuals here. Stay on topic! That is the issue, not sodomy, athough it is not inappropriate to call them sodomites because that is what they are. Whether anal sex or oral sex with each other, it is still the same. Why would they not cohabitate if they weren’t having sex? Not feasible.

          • Ronald Carter

            By your definition, many straight couples are sodomites as well. I find it VERY interesting that you choose to give them a free pass but condemn homosexuals for doing the same thing.

      • Michael A. Todd

        What the Bible says about the office of bishop:

        1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desires a good work.
        1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
        1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
        1Ti 3:4 One that rules well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
        1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
        1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
        1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

        • Ronald Carter

          Should be no problem then.

          • Tom

            Husband of one “Wife”, not husband.

          • Michael A. Todd

            Thanks Tom, it’s good to know many Christians are reading the Bible as literal, not as a bunch of suggestions.

          • DorianGrayfox

            Like the bible condoning slavery? That type of literal?

          • Michael A. Todd

            Yes, even the Israelites were slaves for hundreds of years during several captivities, which they brought upon themselves by disobeying God’s commandments. African slave owners were the first to make deals to send slaves to America and again, they were Africans, not white people. America is being punished for disobeying God for decades, think Clinton, Bush, Obama. They were all put into office and then allowed the power to destroy social institutions that have been part of America since day one. And don’t forget, Israelites were released only after they turned back to God, prayed and repented.

            When will Americans do the same? Is it already too late to make a difference?

          • cadcoke5

            You are probably thinking of the negro slave trade with your opposition to slavery. That is more properly described in the Old Testament law as kidnapping. That carried a penalty of death.

            By the way, our US constitution still upholds slavery as punishment for crime. And, requiring community services is now how that is carried out. This is a better example of biblically prescribed slavery.

          • DorianGrayfox

            You do know that the Southern Baptist Church broke from the Baptist Church to support slavery in the South? And that they only apologized for using the bible to support not only slavery but also Jim Crow laws and laws against interracial marriage in the mid 1990’s.

          • cadcoke5

            The upholding of the negro slave trade was a great evil, both as a moral compromise when our country was founded, and again at the civil war, and the following decades. I am puzzled why the Southern Baptist did not change their name when they finally repented of that sin, since the name is actually a tribute to their sin.

            However, opposition to homosexuality is not in the same category. E.g. God did not create Eve as a slave for Adam, and the biblical example of slavery is in quite a different category than the negro slave trade. Homosexuality is repeatedly, in both Old and New Testaments, shown to be sinful.

          • bamared2222

            Another ignoramus; the bible records instances of slavery but never condones it. Show me the scripture.

      • Ivette Elisa Santiago

        Can you possibly be serious?! This isn’t about engaging in a moronic debate over the issue of running a stupid company, although to all intents and purposes it may as well be! You lack clear and distinct understanding that this is supposed to relate to the issue of holiness and sacredness, something sadly and tragically lacking in your “understanding” of the Spiritual realm. The Lord can no more immerse Himself in this unholy mess than grant absolution to the devil!

        • Ronald Carter

          Yes, I’m quite serious. And yours is the brand of Christianity that I find particularly abhorrent. You’re not supposed to judge, it says right in your book. Did you miss that part?

          • Carrie Burr

            Not judging, but still to discern right from wrong and to lead each other to the truth so they do not fall away from God’s word.

          • Ronald Carter

            What do you propose then, homosexuals can’t change their sexuality so you’re basically insisting that they live loveless and sexless lives to appease your god?

          • Michael A. Todd

            Who said they can’t change? Proof please. There have been many come out of the lifestyle. The modern, liberal leaning media won’t take about it as they are paid not too.

          • Ronald Carter

            Here is your proof:
            http://www.apa. org/about/policy/sexual-orientation.aspx

            Remove the space after the APA part.

            This is the scientifically recognized American Psychological Association.

            Those who say they left the lifestyle have merely been told to abstain from sexual activity. Their innate sexuality is unchanged.

          • Charles

            At the top of this Article.

            “The longstanding consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality per se is a normal and positive variation of human sexual orientation (Bell, Weinberg & Hammersmith, 1981; Bullough, 1976; Ford & Beach 1951 ; Kinsey, Pomeroy, & Martin, 1948; Kinsey, Pomeroy, Martin, & Gebhard, 1953 ). ”

            Alfred Kinsey.. The pedophilia testing pervert.. I can’t even imagine what the rest of these degenerates think.

          • Ronald Carter

            Confirmation bias much? Kinsey didn’t write the news, Charles, he just reported it.

          • Charles

            Just one of Kinsey’s beliefs..

            With his benign view of child sexual abuse, Kinsey became an activist on behalf of child molesters. In 1949, for example, he testified before the California General Assembly’s Subcommittee on Sex Crimes, urging them to liberalize sex offense statutes. He argued specifically for granting immediate paroles to suspected child molesters, and warned that societal “hysteria” does more harm to children than the actual molestations.

            These are nothing but perverts disguised as Academics. Instead of throwing these predators in jail, they give them “Awards”… Called the “Kinsey Award”…. There you have it.

          • Ronald Carter

            Alarmist nonsense. You don’t like the message, and so you are out to demonize the messenger.

          • Charles

            I don’t think so.. I could go on and on with this.

            Hundreds of articles appeared in the USA in 2004 and 2005 critiquing Kinsey’s two PBSTV specials and the Fox Searchlight “Kinsey” feature. In a daring,”one time” mainstream media exposure, on October 3, 2004, The New York Times published reporter Caleb Crain’s article, “Alfred Kinsey: Liberator or Pervert?” Crain was the only reporter who revealed both Kinsey’s on-going collaboration with serial rapist pedophile Rex King as well as Kinsey’s Gestapo/Nazi “sex expert” and pedophile collaborator, Dr. Fritz von Balluseck. Crain wrote:

            Kinsey wrote to King, coaxing him to send his detailed diaries of his sexual exploits, including those with children. Jones reports that on Nov. 24, 1944, for example, Kinsey wrote, “I rejoice at everything you send, for I am then assured that that much more of your material is saved for scientific publication.”….[And Reisman] alleges that Kinsey continued to correspond with King until 1954, and she points out that Kinsey also corresponded with Fritz von Balluseck, a German pedophile and former Nazi who was tried for murder.

          • Ronald Carter

            I’m sure you COULD go on and on with this, using data from crackpot right wing websites. Let’s work with something a little less biased. Here’s the entry on Alfred Kinsey from Wikipedia:

            https://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Alfred_Kinsey

            I searched that article up and down and found no references to him being a demon, mind you, since no one’s ever been proved to be a demon or that demons even exist, this is probably not too surprising.

            I don’t know where the crap you wrote came from, but the only mention in Wikipedia about pedophilia was that Kinsey came under fire for using data from only a single pedophile in his findings.

          • Charles

            Look Ronald. The guys a pervert.. If you approve of a guy talking to pedo’s in the name of science and KNOWING the kids are being abused. That’s sick. Plenty of damning info on this guy..

          • bamared2222

            Oh my goodness, this guy just referenced Wikipedia!! What a genius. Although there is some information that may be valid, it is considered in academic circles to be anathema. I urge students NEVER to reference it and it is universally condemned by academicians.

          • Ronald Carter

            Well, of course you would urge students never to reference it. That’s because it contains easily verified facts and citations, and any areas that are in dispute are discussed in a “talk” tab located on every page. In my experience, it’s not dismissed by anyone other than those who have a religious agenda they are pushing.

          • bamared2222

            You need to research Kinsey. You don’t know what you are talking about. His research was bogus too.

          • Ronald Carter

            I assure you that I have researched him and that I DO know what I’m talking about.

          • cadcoke5

            Do you consider the American Psychological Association to be an authority above God?

            As an aside,note that this same group also asserts the same about the pedophile being unable to change their sexual orientation. Though, they don’t assert that the pedophile should be permitted to act on this desire.

          • Ronald Carter

            No, I don’t consider the APA to be an authority above God, whom I believe is unknowable. But I believe it is certainly far more knowledgeable than the Bible in matters such as this. We know far, far more about the subject now than we did when the Bible was written.

            It may be that the pedophile is locked in a sexual position that can’t be altered. But the APA would never endanger the lives of children by saying the actions of pedophiles were acceptable, ever.

          • cadcoke5

            I think you will find that the Bible is a more reliable source of morals than the American Psychological Association. The APA has changed its views over the years, but God’s word is still holding true. The Bible has proven itself true historically, and the Dead Sea Scrolls, have shown how well it has been preserved over the centuries. Though, it is the Holy Spirit, who is the only that can truly convince someone of the truth of God’s word.

            While God can make himself known in other was, the Bible seems to be an important place where He has chosen to make himself known. And it is the Bible, that the United Methodist Church has stated is God’s word that they uphold…. at least it has on occasion. Their ongoing inaction over over the decades, neglecting their Bionically prescribed roles as judge of their body of belivers, is taking them away from the author of scripture.

          • Ronald Carter

            Neither is a reliable source of morals – there is slavery and polygamy in the Bible, to name but two…but the APA isn’t about morals anyway, it’s about facts and findings and studies and data. The APA changes its statements as it collects newer and more improved data just like any reliable scientific source. But fundamentalist Christianity urges it’s followers to remain fixated on old and unreliable information.

          • cadcoke5

            In regards to polygamy, while you will not find laws in the Bible strictly prohibiting it, you will find plenty of examples that certainly give encouragement to the idea of monogamy and bad examples of polygamy. E.g. Adam & Eve (no other women). The early examples of polygamists in the bible were described as bad characters. The NT, in its list of qualifications for elders gives a list of qualifications that include monogamy. But, note that the various lists of qualifications for leaders is the same as the moral standards ALL believers are called to. Though, for leaders, it is reasonable to focus on certain main issues.

            As for slavery, you may not be aware that slavery is still permitted by the U.S. constitution, in the form of punishment for crime. We see that today carried out in sentences to do community service. This sort of slavery is more consistent with the Biblical example. The Negro slave trade was more properly categorized in the Bible as kidnapping, which carried the death penalty for the kidnapper.

            The APA has changed its stance on many issues over the years.. So why be confident that today’s stance is the correct one and won’t be changed in the future?

            Fundamentalist Christianity urges it’s followers to remain fixated on old and RELIABLE information, and not follow the whims of wimpy science.

          • bamared2222

            It is an eternal truth. The Bible tells the truth about man, that all men sin and do wrong apart from God. Why would you want a changing standard? It is comforting to Christians to know that God has set down the truth and it does not change. And when men are judged, they will realize that what the world says and teaches is false and God’s word will stand.

          • Ronald Carter

            The Bible was written by human beings, not by God.

          • Michael A. Todd

            http://behaviorismandmentalhealth. com/2011/10/08/homosexuality-the-mental-illness-that-went-away/

            States that no scientific evidence was provided before they bowed to pressure from the gay community. They simply voted that homosexuality was no longer a mental illness. 55% voted that way. And overnight it was taken out of the DSM.

            So much for being changed due to new evidence.

          • Ronald Carter

            Not that ridiculous article AGAIN?

            The gay activists that petitioned the APA were simply asking them to take a look at some new research that had come out and when they did they came to the conclusion that homosexuality is not a mental illness. Also why would you think the APA would cave into pressure from a small group of gay activists but wouldn’t cave into pressure from all the much larger groups that got all ticked off that it was declassified? Remember it was declassified during a time where homosexuality was still looked down upon, and homosexuals were not powerful and weren’t particularly unified.

            It’s pretty naive to think you can petition a huge body like the APA and think you can influence them when they are SCIENCE based.

          • Michael A. Todd

            In the last few years we had state after state after state be asked to vote for upholding the definition of marriage as between one man and one woman. And the majority of them did, but, liberal judges were obviously asked to overturn the voice of the majority, and they have done so. Therefore, this shows a huge body, the general public, can be overruled by activist judges. We no longer are in a democratic society. Only a very few make the rules now, the rest of us are just now figuring that out. It will be demonstrated again when Hillary gets crowned, I mean elected.

          • bamared2222

            You obviously don’t know the influence and power of the gay lobby. Have you not noticed all the changes that have taken place in 5 years??? You are the naïve one.

          • Ronald Carter

            We are talking about the APA in the 1970s. There was no power in the gay lobby at that time. And it’s still ludicrous to think the facts and findings of a body of science could be “lobbied” anyway.

          • bamared2222

            No, change their heart toward God and forsake the sin of homosexuality. This is not impossible. God dramatically changed me from a lifestyle of sin and I have NO REGRETS!!

          • Ronald Carter

            The fact that they are homosexual never had anything to do with God in the first place. They cannot change. All they can do with the help of religion is live loveless and sexless lives, which is a cruel and horrible thing to ask another human being to do.

          • Ronald Carter

            You cannot change your innate sexuality, it’s not possible. The most religion can do is guilt homosexual people into living a loveless and sexless life which is not only deeply cruel but utterly unnecessary.

          • Ginger

            We are not to judge, but discern sin is sin. A congregation worth it salt would not have these people as their leaders. Luke 6:[43] For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt bring forth good fruit. [44] For every tree is known by his own fruit.For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. [KJV] Trees are symbolic of people, so know them by the fruit they bring forth.

          • Ronald Carter

            Homosexuality is not sin.

          • Ginger

            If you want to roll around in the dust with serpent have at it. Our Heavenly Father makes it clear both in Old Testament and New Testament. He hates sodomites. Saying it is not a sin, is against His Word, We don’t judge but we are to discern morally right from morally wrong. The law is our schoolmaster, we all fall short that is the beauty of Christianity–repentance. Christ never came to do away with the law.
            Matthew 5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am come not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
            He did come as kinsman redeemer to fulfill the blood ordinances were done away with upon the cross (I Peter 1:8-25).
            The second advent is a different story. Our decisions in this life will place our soul on one side or the gulf or the other.

            Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are Mine, as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sinneth, it will die.

            I John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

            Romans 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one.

            Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we
            were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

            Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

            Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth
            the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [Companion Bible]

          • Ronald Carter

            I don’t care what your holy book says, homosexuality occurs throughout the animal kingdom. Science and mental health experts teach us that it a natural variation of human sexuality. You lose.

          • bamared2222

            We are not talking about animals here and you know it. You are avoiding the issue. For man, homosexuality is a sin and an abomination to God, plain and simple. It is affirmed multiple times in scripture, not just in one obscure passage. But you don’t care about our “holy book,” except for what the Bible says about judging, then you agree with that!! LOL

          • Ronald Carter

            It’s not “plain and simple”. Read a psychology text sometime or speak to a mental health professional. Hatred of homosexuals comes almost exclusively from religion. There is no other reason to oppose it.

          • Ronald Carter

            It’s not “plain and simple” to the science community. I don’t know what your excuse is for refusing to listen to them, they have studied it extensively and have the answers. Do you do the same thing with evolution? Don’t answer that…

          • bamared2222

            We do not judge the heart, but we can judge what we see and hear as right or wrong. Not judging against the individual but making them aware of their sin. You are of that group of people who love to run to one scripture verse in “our book” and try to make us feel guilty. From that expression alone, it tells me you are very ignorant of “our book.”

          • Ronald Carter

            Quite honestly I don’t care what ANYONE’S “book” says about it. Ask the people who know about it, the scientists and mental health experts, organizations like the APA, and how about asking homosexuals themselves? They seem to know a thing or two about it.

  • Fred Cox

    Executive Director Matt Berryman asserted that their nomination of the three was led by the Holy Spirit… Wonder what his position is on that which is described in Matthew 12:31-32?

    • Ronald Carter

      How is this blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, please?

      • Charles

        Because evil is now called “Good”.. That’s blaspheme.

        • Ronald Carter

          And what are you referring to as “evil”? You’re making a lot of assumptions.

          Are you going to seriously tell me that these people are “evil” because of one facet of their lives, their sexuality, which they neither chose nor are capable of changing?

          And if you are, why are you assuming they are sexually active? The story doesn’t state one way or the other.

          What about the Christian who apart from being a model Christian happens to be a shoplifter? Is that Christian “evil” because of one facet of his life, even if he’s exemplary in other areas?

          That’s a lot of judging…which is a no-no in your book. It’s not even righteous judging.

          • Charles

            I’m going to substitute a word with another sin.. Just to show you how ridiculous you sound.

            Are you going to seriously tell me that these people are “evil” because of one facet of their lives, their adulteries , which they neither chose nor are capable of changing?”.

            Doesn’t mean we don’t sin.. If we say we are without sin we lie. If we say we love Jesus Christ, we model ourselves after him.. God doesn’t go for practicing homosexuality, or idolatry, or drunkenness, or covetousness, etc.. You get the idea.. Doesn’t wash…. Will never wash.

          • Ronald Carter

            And now it’s my turn to show you how ridiculous YOU sound. It has to do with the word you substituted – “adulteries”.

            Adultery is an action. It’s something that happens. Homosexuality is not. Homosexuality is a state of being. You can live a life of complete celibacy and still be a homosexual. It has to do with your attraction, not with what you do.

            And even if it WERE an action, your comparison is still hugely flawed because adultery is something that has a victim associated with it, it’s an act of abuse. Homosexual activity is, in and of itself, not.

            Try again.

          • Charles

            Ha.. ha.. Are you serious? What!? You think it was any easier for a Adulterer at heart such as myself was any easier to break? God was only one who could break it.. To pieces.. I could NEVER do it on my own. You don’t get it Ronald.. EVERYONE has an issue.. For some it’s stealing, for others, false witness, homosexuality, fornication, adultery, or a combination of several or all of them. Is any easier for them to break it Ronald? It your issue really that exclusive? Ridiculous… You know what that’s called? It’s called Justification for your sin.. There isn’t any.. Just stop with that nonsense.

          • Ronald Carter

            Don’t confuse the issue, please. Adultery IS something to overcome. Homosexuality is not. You really seem to struggle with this concept of consenting adults. In a homosexual relationship, it’s consensual. No one is being hurt or abused. In your little list above, you blithely toss “homosexuality” in with a list of abuses. There is no “breaking” away from homosexuality because you are either born with it or you aren’t. Would you “break away” from your blue eyes or left-handedness?

            I get that your Christian faith means, in your eyes, that you have to oppose homosexuality (even though there are branches of Christianity that take no issue with it). But if you’re going to oppose it, don’t pretend to oppose it for anything other than religious reasons. There are NO reasons outside of faith to oppose it. It hurts nobody.

          • Charles

            We are born with sin Ronald.. The sin just varies from person to person.. Not any less difficult for anyone else… We know what Abusers of Mankind are with themselves.. It requires the Lord Jesus Christ intervention to understand and love God’s Laws.. How beautiful they are.. Amen.

          • Ronald Carter

            Sin is a construct of the church. You call it sin if you want to, I will call it being human. If you’d take the time to open a psychology text and read about homosexuality you’d find that everything I’m saying is true. You just want to look for excuses to ignore it so you can beat up on homosexuals and I have to wonder why you’d do that when it just turns people off.

          • Charles

            Sin is the reality of where we currently are.. It’s God’s construct. Not mans.. God is running the show, don’t think for a minute he isn’t. Your man made superstitions of “Psychology” can’t even agree with themselves on what it is..

            According to the American Psychiatric Association, until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness. Freud had alluded to homosexuality numerous times in his writings, and had concluded that paranoia and homosexuality were inseparable. Other psychiatrists wrote copiously on the subject, and homosexuality was “treated” on a wide basis. There was little or no suggestion within the psychiatric community that homosexuality might be conceptualized as anything other than a mental illness that needed to be treated. And, of course, homosexuality was listed as a mental illness in DSM-II. (The DSM – Diagnostic and Statistical Manual – is the APA’s standard classification of their so-called mental disorders, and is used by many mental health workers in the USA and other countries.)

            Then in 1970 gay activists protested against the APA convention in San Francisco. These scenes were repeated in 1971, and as people came out of the “closet” and felt empowered politically and socially, the APA directorate became increasingly uncomfortable with their stance. In 1973 the APA’s nomenclature task force recommended that homosexuality be declared normal. The trustees were not prepared to go that far, but they did vote to remove homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses by a vote of 13 to 0, with 2 abstentions. This decision was confirmed by a vote of the APA membership, and homosexuality was no longer listed in the seventh edition of DSM-II, which was issued in 1974.

            What’s noteworthy about this is that the removal of homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses was not triggered by some scientific breakthrough. There was no new fact or set of facts that stimulated this major change. Rather, it was the simple reality that gay people started to kick up a fuss. They gained a voice and began to make themselves heard. And the APA reacted with truly astonishing speed. And with good reason. They realized intuitively that a protracted battle would have drawn increasing attention to the spurious nature of their entire taxonomy. So they quickly “cut loose” the gay community and forestalled any radical scrutiny of the DSM system generally.

            Is it a mental illness? Is it normal behavior? No. I propose it’s a spiritual illness, just like many other sins can cause. The difference between Homosexuality in this day and age is no one is parading around about being a “Proud Adulterer”. Two things right off the bat should send a “Flag” up about the homosexual movement and “Gay Pride” as they call it.. One is the high jacking of God’s rainbow (Normally 7 Colors), blasphemed by the homosexual community (With 6 Colors).. On top of that the second word should also tell us… Pride.. One of the 6 things God hates. Pride is destructive. Destructive as it comes.

          • Ronald Carter

            The reason homosexuality was declassified as a mental illness (clear back in the 1970s, wow) is because they found no data at that time to suggest mental illness, and what they DID find since then shows that it’s not. Honestly, it’s pure hatred to oppress homosexuals given everything that science now knows. There’s no excuse for it.

            Homosexuals at that time were by no means a powerful force, and it’s ludicrous to think they could have “lobbied” a science based mental health organization.

          • Charles

            So how did they arrive at it before 1970 (How many years did they hold this view?). Why would I ever listen to psychologist when according to you they didn’t get it right the first time? Like I said.. It’s a sickness of the spirit. Jesus Christ is the cure.. Amen.

          • LadyInChrist♥BlessedBeTheLord

            Amen.

          • DorianGrayfox

            Uh, this may come as a surprise to you but MANY Americans have absolutely NO desire to be ruled over by a bunch of silly 2000 year old MYTHS, scratched onto goat hides by a group of ignorant iron-age peasants huddled around a camel dung fire pit.

          • Michael A. Todd

            Then explain why those writings have gone out into the entire world in hundreds of languages. Apparently, they are either divinely inspired or the majority of mankind needs to believe in an all powerful creator God.

            What god(s) do you believe in?

          • Charles

            Well no one is forcing you are they? Myth? I don’t think so.. There are THOUSANDS of documents of the New Testaments in all types of languages.. Not to mention the secular writings about the Lord Jesus Christ his miracles, and his crucifixion.. No Myths here.. You are blinded by your unbelief. I thought as you once did. Jesus set me free. Never found peace until I met the Lord. I couldn’t praise the Lord enough. Eternity isn’t long enough. Amen.

          • Ronald Carter

            For the simple reason that they did not study it extensively for many years. That, and the fact that they get better data and better information every year. Science learns all the time, and is always replacing what was incorrect with what is improved. If you were to get a cancer diagnosis, would you want to be treated with 40 year old data?

          • Michael A. Todd

            The universe was created by God. The science of mankind occupies a very small box in the corner of the universe. It always will pale in comparison to God’s knowledge because it was created by Him. Science is trying hard to find the God particle, the Big Bang, opening portals, etc. Those are extremely dangerous undertaking. When we leave here we will be able to comprehend much more of the universe. Until then, science cannot explain or supersede the knowledge of God. It is impossible.

            Nowhere in literature for thousands of years was homosexuality embraced in public the way it is now. Unless you count Sodom and Gomorrah, which were destroyed because of the openness of homosexuality. As American lawmakers continue to go against the majority and push the LGBTQI agenda, the country gets closer and closer to its own destruction. God is righteous, He does not look the other way. I say this as a sinner saved by grace. I’m not perfect at all. I need to be more fearful of our all powerful God myself. I’m trying…

          • Ronald Carter

            For thousands of years we had no information – and rather than take the time to look for it, people did as you are doing now and turned to ancient texts and witchcraft and that was all that was needed, and a huge part of the population was marginalized and demonized. We have much better information now, tested data and indisputable evidence. For you to continue to try to uphold ignorance is shocking and astounding.

          • Charles

            Well.. I find that odd.. Because for being less than 1 percent of the population, they have managed to influence enough political power to make these sweeping changes… Was over ruled in many states by activist judges, despite the will of the people. They are quite influential in America and world.

          • Michael A. Todd

            Well said Charles, but, it appears that even historical evidence doesn’t deter Ronald in his quest to be seen as completely normal and accepted. God would be pleased if the majority of Bible believing Christians had such fervency about sharing Jesus’ love as Ronald and the LGBTQI?? have in their quest.

          • rsheat

            You are deceived. Repent.

          • Ronald Carter

            Not interested, not buying.

          • Michael A. Todd

            Ronald is in the recently formed camp of “Homosexuals are born that way.” The “gay” gene has as much basis in science as many of the theories that make up the theory of evolution. Ronald would not be here if we had male/male, female/female families 2,000 years ago. We would be extinct. There is only one family structure condoned for humans and for animals. “And God made them male and female.”

          • Ronald Carter

            You’re putting words in my mouth, Michael A. Todd. I didn’t say they were born that way. We don’t know if they were born that way or if it’s something that develops in early life. What we DO know is that it’s not chosen, any more than your own sexuality was.

          • Michael A. Todd

            I had several gay friends in the 80s. Trust me, they were waiting to see if I would go in their direction. But, even though I was very single, I knew I wanted a relationship with a woman. But, you are saying if I were ‘gay’ I would have started dating one or more of them without thinking about it. As I recall, it was simply a matter of choice for me. I CHOSE not to do what they were doing.

          • Ronald Carter

            Your gay friends might have been waiting to see which way you’d end up going, but they could not have influenced it and would not have tried. It’s hard wired in all of us. You wanted a relationship with a woman because you were, like most men, attracted to women naturally. Neither you nor your gay friends made a choice. You went for what you were naturally attracted to.

          • DorianGrayfox

            we had plenty of male/male and female/female families 2000 years ago. Same sex marriage was legal in the Roman Empire for over 500 years ( several emperors had same sex marriages and rome only fell AFTER turning “christian”. Same sex marriage was legal in ancient China & India as well as with several tribes of Native Americans. Your silly bible isn’t the only book out there.

          • Michael A. Todd

            Well, heck, wonder why it took so long to become “legal” here to marry same sex??? I suppose it was because people came here for religious freedom and they happened to be Christians who read and adhered to the Bible. Now, that our illustrious president (likely gay) has said “America is no longer a Christian nation (he prefers Muslim)” everything has accelerated in favor of the LGBTQI community. At this rate, there will be all kinds of marriages that are legally acceptable.

          • Charles

            So you are going to use ROME as an example? Really.. Do you have any idea the atrocities, and evil of this empire? Nero, Tiberius, Caligula? No actually, the NAME of Christianity is what saved the Roman Empire.. It still exist today as the Roman Catholic Church. But that’s another story.

          • Ivette Elisa Santiago

            See, the conundrum you’re being confronted with is that you neither know the Lord NOR His ways. Unfortunately your comments clearly reflect you lack of understanding Scripture. Unrepentant SINFULNESS as He ultimately defines it IS wickedness in His eyes, and anyone who willfully practices such IS evil in His eyes….we’re not talking Zeus or Jupiter here friend, but THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE LIVING GOD, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL!

          • Ronald Carter

            Well then, how do you explain all the Christians out there who don’t see homosexuality as sinful and who claim to know they Lord and his ways? You Christians are so divided on your own rules that sometimes it’s very difficult to take you seriously. I chose the path that had the least hatred and it’s served me very well so far.

  • Sharon G

    We, as Christians, are to love the sinner but hate the sin. Just as we shouldn’t allow a known adulterer to be at the head, we shouldn’t allow a person practicing homosexuality to be at the head either. You cannot pretend that the Bible does not view the homosexual lifestyle as sinful.

    • Ronald Carter

      Homosexuality is not about what you do, but what you are. They could be homosexuals who have never touched another person.

      • Michael A. Todd

        So you expect people to believe this pastor never touched his boyfriend inappropriately during their 28 years “friendship?”

        “Pastor David Meredith, an ordained minister of the United Methodist
        Church, married his boyfriend of 28 years on Saturday in a potent
        protest against church doctrine that bans ministers from marrying
        same-sex partners.”

        • Ronald Carter

          Is it your place to assume such a thing?

          • Michael A. Todd

            What am I assuming? That these two men have been living like monks for 28 years and just decided to get married. I don’t get your point, if you are trying to make one.

          • Ronald Carter

            The point is you are making assumptions about how these men are living their lives. There are celibate people in this world, homosexual and heterosexual alike. It is grotesque that you are judging people based on what they might or might not be doing in their bedrooms. And it’s especially bad when you don’t know and judge anyway.

          • Michael A. Todd

            Have a blessed weekend Ronald!!!

          • DorianGrayfox

            I mave no problem assuming that you Mr.. Todd are a self righteous, homophobic, bigoted, bible thumping fool!

          • Michael A. Todd

            DorianGrayfox, may you have a blessed day and 4th of July weekend. May you enjoy the freedoms here that mostly Christian soldiers fought for and many died for. I appreciate all of the adjectives used to describe me. I prefer just being known as a man saved by the grace of God, still a sinner, as we can’t stop completely sinning until our life here is over and we go onto the next life.

            By the way, I have gay friends at work and I leave them be. I’m not homophobic, I just agree with the majority of people in this country on traditions that are thousands of years old which have been very successful. After all, I assume your own conception was traditional or you wouldn’t be here.

            Psalms 53:1 The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that does good.

            Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that listens to counsel is wise.

            Proverbs 14:16 A wise man fears, and departs from evil: but the fool rages, and is confident.

      • Sharon G

        I agree with that.

    • Charles

      Were exactly is that phrase in the Bible “love the sinner but hate the sin”. Do you know that saying came from Ghandi? Not from our Lord Jesus Christ.

  • Nidalap

    There’s always a choice to either please the world or God.
    This was a bad choice…

  • Charles

    None of this is surprising.. EXCEPT.. We should be on the lookout… The falling away.. The Greek word for this is apostasia.. I think in near future, most of the Churches will be apostate.

  • Ian Blythe

    Wickedness in high places! The Bible speaks.

  • Ivette Elisa Santiago

    There is just so much blasphemous self-serving commentary going on here…it literally is mind-boggling how incredibly blind these people truly are! Clearly is stamped on the door posts of what has now become religious institutions, and because spiritual blindness has set in and darkness surrounds them, they are incapable of gauging what the real truth is!

    • Michael A. Todd

      I agree, I attended a United Methodist church for over 20 years. Now I need to find a church that is only Bible believing, one that hasn’t reinterpreted everything to another gospel.

    • bamared2222

      They are wallowing in darkness, fed by deception of the evil one.

  • Ivette Elisa Santiago

    ….they seriously have no idea they’ve been given over to a reprobate mind…SMH

  • Ivette Elisa Santiago

    Clearly ICHABOD is stamped on the door posts of their gathering places, since with all due respect, CHURCHES they ate NOT!

  • rsheat

    The United Methodist church is not a Christian church. It has chosen the Devil’s side.

    • bamared2222

      Sadly it has slidden into perdition and perversion. it was once a great evangelistic movement.

  • commonsents

    Executive Director Matt Berryman asserted that their nomination of the three was led by the Holy Spirit. “BULL”

  • 201821208 :)

    “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.” Rom. 1:26-27

    • Gena B

      When God ‘gives them up’ people need to understand that means God has nothing to do with them and will allow them to commit sin and wallow in it, wanting all men to come to repentance.

  • Theodore Fenton

    I applaud their courageous stand.

  • Dan Jones

    The apostasy is spreading throughout the land… and most Christians are still on the blue pill

    Always be a light that is .shininginthedark.c

  • https://disqus.com/home/channel/escapefromegypt/ EscapetheDarkness

    Proverbs 28:4 [NET Bible]

    “Those who forsake the law praise the wicked,
    but those who keep the law contend with them.”

  • Becky

    “The 111 signees also outlined that they wish to remain in the United Methodist denomination despite prohibitions against homosexual behavior and that they desire to ‘create a pathway of hope into ministry’ for non-celibate homosexual youth who want to serve in leadership capacities.”

    Right, ’cause that’s their true calling…”non-celibate homosexual youth”. They’re disgusting the whole lot of them.

  • Suzanne Leong

    They did not hear the Holy Spirit…They heard the devil speaking to their tickling ears. God’s Word never change, because God never change. The Bible’s condemnation of homosexuality is very clear and very strong. God says that homosexuality is an “abomination”; that means that God hates, abhors and thoroughly detests homosexual behavior. The New Testament is in full agreement: the Apostle Paul says that homosexual behavior is “worthy of death” (Rom. 1:32). This is not the opinion of man but the clear teaching of the Word of God.

    The people who claim to be compassionate toward homosexuals by excusing and approving of their perverse behavior are liars and false teachers. Their attempts to reinterpret the Bible to make it accepting of homosexuality are nothing more than pitiful excuses made for those who do not want to repent. They are leading homosexuals down the broad path which leads to destruction (Mt. 7:13). They are the true enemies of the homosexual community.

  • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

    Just as homosexuals have a parasitic need to appropriate children of others, because they can by nature have no children of their own, so these homosexual “Christians” have a need to appropriate churches and believers built and won by others, because they can by nature not convert anyone to the true faith that they do not themselves practice.

  • Rev Donald Spitz

    Homosexuality should be criminalized. Homosexuality is a crime against God and against the Holy Bible. After reading this story I know why God wrote:
    Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
    Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: :26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: :27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

  • bamared2222

    “We believe the new creation has begun — it’s time for The United Methodist Church to move boldly forward into the future and elect its first openly gay bishops to the glory of God and for the unfolding of a new future together.” New creation? It would have to be a new creation because it is not the creation that God intended! Glory of God? There is nothing here that brings glory to God. This is an abomination; liberals know it but they do not hold themselves under the authority of the church, and most importantly, unto the authority of the holy scriptures. There is NO scriptural teaching that supports the homosexual lifestyle; actually, just the opposite, in both testaments. This lunacy has been conjured up in the minds of reprobate individuals who are shaking their fists in the face of God and calling themselves servants of that same God!

  • Shamu

    This issue is not unique or confined solely to The United Methodist Church. All denominations “already are or soon will be” confronted with this same situation. Everyone needs to seriously think this through and seek wisdom and guidance through prayer because all of us (like it or not) are going to be required to take a position on this.

  • Roger M. Cole

    Obviously the New Methodist church is part of the great apostasy or falling away, according to 2Th 2:3 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;” & 2Ti 4:3 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;”KJV. I guess the Methodist Church has decided to abandon the word of God so that they may flaunt their Homosexual sin.May God grant them repentance.

  • Loreto Corpuz

    As preacher of God you must obey all practices that was written in the bible. A SAME SEX MARRIAGE is a sin, how much more if they are Bishops? I’m soory but I cannot accept that kind of relationship of Bishops.