Kansas Police Department Removes Bible Decal Following Complaint From Atheist Activists

Decal-compressed
Photo Credit: Screenshot KSNW

HARPER, Kan. — A police department in Kansas recently removed a Scriptural decal from a patrol vehicle after receiving a complaint from a professing atheist group.

The Harper Police Department had placed a decal on one its vehicles that simply read “Romans 13:4.” The verse, which speaks to the role of government as ordained by God, reads, “For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.”

But the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF), which was contacted by a local citizen—whose name was left anonymous—took issue with the stickers, asserting that they were a violation of the Establishment Clause of the United States Constitution. The Clause reads, “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

FFRF sent a letter to Chief Doug Murphy to urge him to remove the Bible decals.

“It is inappropriate and unconstitutional for a government entity to display such a decal on its property because it displays a preference by the HPD—and by extension, the City of Harper—for religion over non-religion and Christianity over all minority faiths,” the correspondence read.

The organization also took issue with the selection of Scripture.

“The choice of verse is particularly disturbing,” it stated. “Romans 13 begins by claiming, ‘there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.’ This idea directly conflicts with the Constitution’s source of power: ‘We the people.'”

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“There is also something perverse about referring to ‘revengers,’ ‘bearing swords’ and ‘executing wrath’ when your true job is to protect and serve,’ the letter continued. “It is not for the HPD to mete out biblical punishments or divine wrath.”

Following the issuance of the complaint, Harper Mayor Scott Blubaugh told local television station KSNW that he contacted the city attorney and asked him to determine whether the decal will need to be removed.

But some area residents didn’t find the matter to be a big deal.

“He has a right to have it there if he wants to,” Margaret Carrington told the outlet. “If he had another kind of sticker, would that make a difference?”

On Tuesday, Chief Murphy replied to FFRF to advise that the decal had been removed.

“The Harper Police Department has removed the decal ‘Romans 13:4’ from the city-owned vehicle it was on,” he simply wrote in his one sentence response.

Noah Webster, known as the “Father of American Scholarship and Education,” once said, “No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people. All the miseries an evils which men suffer from—vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war—proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.”


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  • rickstarr1

    Well, good for Noah Webster, but he didn’t write the Constitution, that’s not what the Constitution says, and it’s a perversion of history to suggest otherwise. The country started because people were fleeing a government’s dictat of religion; now people want government cars to carry Bible verses?

  • TheBottomline4This

    Lil ol’ whiny atheists crack me up…they go after something they don’t believe in.
    It would be like me, who doesn’t believe in unicorns going after someone who had a unicorn decal. When I see one, i just go on with my life. Too bad atheists have so much free time to go after something they don’t believe in in the first place.

    • Stephen W.

      Yes, but the “followers” are very real.

    • Lexical Cannibal

      Or even like a Christian getting upset over a Quranic verse decal. I mean, Christians don’t believe in the Muslim Allah, so they’d never, ever get upset by that, since he doesn’t exist.

      • TheBottomline4This

        If the decal is on someone’s car or backpack or mailbox, etc…no, it wouldn’t upset me.
        It would help me know that they will destroy and kill. You do know they ARE doing that don’t you??? or are you an islam sympathizer like BHO?

        • Jalapeno

          Would it bother you if it were on a police car?

    • C_Alan_Nault

      “they go after something they don’t believe in”

      Wrong. They are going after someone illegally promoting what they believe in.

      • Becky

        Point out the exact law that says it’s illegal. Go.

        • axelbeingcivil

          The first amendment, as unanimously interpreted by the Supreme Court in Everson v. Board of Education, guarantees no favouritism towards religion(s) by government bodies.

          • MarkSebree

            Also, remember the 14th Amendment that expands the 1st to cover all levels of government. And the police are supposed to be the enforcement arm of the government.

          • Slidellman4life

            The 14th Amendment is not relevant to religious speech and is therefore not relevant to this discussion.

          • MarkSebree

            Actually, the 14th Amendment is highly relevant to religious speech. It guarantees equal rights under the law, and equal protection under the law. That means that all religious speech is protected, just as all religions are protected and are to be treated equally.

        • C_Alan_Nault

          The supreme court has ruled on the issue.

  • Becky

    “It is inappropriate and unconstitutional for a government entity to display such a decal on its property because it displays a preference by the HPD—and by extension, the City of Harper—for religion over non-religion and Christianity over all minority faiths,” the correspondence read.”

    FFRF, as usual, is twisting the USC to serve their deep-seated hatred against God Almighty. The First Amendment reads…

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    It begins with, “Congress shall make no law…”. A PD isn’t Congress and placing a religious sticker on a patrol vehicle isn’t a law, nor does it go against any law. The PD has every right to use those stickers on their vehicles.

    • meamsane

      Correct. Where there is no law, there is no violation. This PD should realize that.

    • Guzzman

      No government entity at any level can endorse or promote religion. In 1868, the 14th Amendment was added to the U.S. Constitution, and it prohibited states from denying people “liberty” without “due process.” Since then, as cases arose, the U.S. Supreme Court used the 14th Amendment to apply most of the Bill of Rights (including the First Amendment) to all levels of government, extending it well beyond Congress. The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment mandates that government at all levels remain neutral on religious matters.

      Did you somehow think the Bill of Rights do not apply to state and local governments? If true, the states would be free to ban gun ownership, search homes and seize property at will without warrants or court oversight, ignore due process, prohibit free speech, prohibit freedom of the press, prohibit freedom of assembly, favor my religion and ban yours, and so forth.

      • Slidellman4life

        No government entity at any level can endorse or promote religion.

        According to whom?

        • Guzzman

          The Bill of Rights (1791) existed only to limit the power of the Federal government. They did not apply to the states. Most state constitutions include parts of the Bill of Rights, but were not required to do so. As I pointed out, in 1868, the 14th Amendment was added to the U.S. Constitution, and it prohibited states from denying people “liberty” without “due process.”

          Between the 1890s and 2010, the Supreme Court decided that the 14th Amendment extended a variety of rights secured against the federal government against state and local governments also. The Incorporation Doctrine was not sweeping. It was a glacial, case by case process. Freedom of the press, 1931. Right to a speedy trial, 1967. Right to keep arms, 2010.

          The First Amendment’s Establishment Clause wasn’t incorporated against the states until 1947. So as the law now stands, Federal, state, and local governments are required to remain neutral on matters of religion, neither favoring nor disfavoring any religious belief, practice, or viewpoint.

          As for scripture on Federal buildings, the constitutionality depends on the context. Did you have specific examples in mind?

          • Slidellman4life

            What does the 14th Amendment have to do with any of this?

            The First Amendment’s Establishment Clause wasn’t incorporated against the states until 1947. So as the law now stands, Federal, state, and local governments are required to remain neutral on matters of religion, neither favoring nor disfavoring any religious belief, practice, or viewpoint.

            The problem with this, is the ruling that created this is wholly unconstitutional, as it redefines “establish” to mean something other than “create,” and alters the intent of the Founders. In fact, in the 1802 letter Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists that was referred to and was the inspiration for the aforementioned ruling, Jefferson indicated church should be protected from the government, not the other way around, as nine men in black robes decided.

          • Guzzman

            You wrote, “Jefferson indicated church should be protected from the government.” The idea that Madison’s and Jefferson’s wall between religion and government works in one direction only – i.e., it serves to protect religion from government, but not government from religion – simply has no basis in history, law, or even common sense.

            The very idea is self-contradictory: If ANY religious group is free to influence and control government and thereby achieve a privileged status, all others are at risk of falling into disfavor and facing government discrimination and even persecution. One of the primary objectives of the First Amendment was to prevent arming any religious group with the force of law. A government controlled by religion is the very definition of theocracy – and that is precisely what the Founders wished to avoid.

            James Madison, long-honored as the Father of the Constitution, could not have been any clearer: “The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased BY THE TOTAL SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).

          • Slidellman4life

            The idea that Madison’s and Jefferson’s wall between religion and government works in one direction only – i.e., it serves to protect religion from government, but not government from religion – simply has no basis in history, law, or even common sense.

            Same applies with the idea religious speech should be completely stifled in any and everything related to the government. But I digress.

            Jefferson’s letter says exactly what I said: Religion is to be protected from government. Which only makes sense when you read the First Amendment, and it says, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Congress cannot create its own religion nor keep people from practicing theirs. Period, end of sentence.

            Oh, and that letter you quoted? The National Archives put the whole thing online. I am posting the relevant portion to indicate the proper context of the above comments:

            “That there has been an increase of religious instruction since the revolution can admit of no question. The English Church was originally the established religion: the character of the clergy that above described. Of other sects there were but few adherents, except the Presbyterians who predominated on the W. side of the Blue Mountains. A little time previous to the Revolutionary struggle the Baptists sprang up, and made a very rapid progress. Among the early acts of the Republican Legislature, were those abolishing the Religious establishment, and putting all Sects at full liberty and on a perfect level. At present the population is divided, with small exceptions, among the Protest: Episcopalians, the Presbyterians, the Baptists & the Methodists. Of their comparative numbers I can command no sources of information. I conjecture the Presbyterians & Baptists to form each abt. a third, & the two other Sects together, of which the Methodists are much the smallest, to make up the remaining third. The old churches built under the establisht. at the public expence; have in many instances gone to ruin, or are in a very dilapidated State, owing chiefly to a transition2 of the flocks to other worships. A few new ones have latterly been built particularly in the towns. Among the other sects, Meeting Houses have multiplied & continue to multiply; tho’ in general they are of the plainest and cheapest sort. But neither the number nor the stile of the religious edifices is a true measure of the State of religion. Religious instruction is now diffused throughout the Community, by preachers of every Sect with almost equal zeal, tho’ with very unequal acquirements; and at private houses & open stations as well as in buildings appropriated to that use.3 The qualifications of the Preachers too among the new Sects where there was the greatest deficiency, are understood to be improving. On a general comparison of the present & former times, the balance is certainly & vastly on the side of the present, as to the number of religious teachers, the zeal which actuates them, the purity of their lives, and the attendance of the people on their instructions. It was the universal opinion of the Century preceding the last, that Civil Govt. could not stand without the prop of a Religious establishment, & that the Xn religion itself, would perish if not supported by a legal provision for its Clergy. The experience of Virginia conspicuously corroborates the disproof of both opinions. The Civil Govt. tho’ bereft of every thing like an associated hierarchy possesses the requisite Stability and performs its functions with complete success: Whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood & the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the Church from the State.”

            So what Madison is saying, here, is in giving the people the freedom to practice their own religion (versus one central religion, the Church of England, a creation of the British government), things have expanded dramatically.

            To put things in plain English, pal, you have just been shown to be woefully ignorant of anything past your personal belief religious expression (read: Christianity) should be censored because it gets in the way of your vision of a godless utopia.

            In the future, if you cannot be honest about your true motivations, at least try to give the impression you have some kind of idea of what you are talking about.

          • Guzzman

            You wrote, “Jefferson’s letter says exactly what I said: Religion is to be protected from government.” No it does not, Jefferson’s letter plainly says the First Amendment creates a separation between reel go on and government. The undeniable intent of the founders was to separate religion and government. James Madison, long honored as the Father of the Constitution, wrote authoritative declarations that the Constitution and the First Amendment safeguard a “separation between religion and government” (Madison, Detached Memoranda, 1820).

            President Jefferson described the religious clauses of the First Amendment as “building a wall of separation between Church and State.” In Reynolds v. United States (1879) the Supreme Court argued that Jefferson’s writings concerning a wall of separation between church and state “may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment.”

            In subsequent rulings, the Supreme Court has sided with the founders on the basic principle of separating religion and government.

          • Slidellman4life

            I’ve no idea why you won’t drop this. You have been publically spanked and like a masochist you come back for more.

          • Guzzman

            My evidence that the Founders intended to separate religion and government in the Constitution is overwhelming and you have yet to address any of Madison’s or Jefferson’s quotes calling for the separation of religion and government or the Supreme Court’s many confirmations of that founding principle.

            The ultimate piece of evidence is the Constitution itself, which is a resolutely secular document – nowhere does it appeal to Christianity, Jesus Christ, the Bible, or even God for that matter. That was by design. As James Madison famously wrote, “Religion & Govt. will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”

          • Slidellman4life

            My evidence that the Founders intended to separate religion and government in the Constitution is overwhelming

            Oh? Where is it?

            The ultimate piece of evidence is the Constitution itself, which is a resolutely secular document – nowhere does it appeal to Christianity, Jesus Christ, the Bible, or even God for that matter.

            It also doesn’t contain the phrase, “Separation of church and state.” Not in whole or in part, not implied or explicit. If your argument is correct, then surely it would be in there. But it isn’t. Because you are full of crap.

            I knew exactly what your thoughts were when you wrote:

            The idea that Madison’s and Jefferson’s wall between religion and government works in one direction only – i.e., it serves to protect religion from government, but not government from religion – simply has no basis in history, law, or even common sense.

            In other words, “If we are to have true freedom of religion, we must have freedom from religion.” That’s Orwellian doublespeak and complete Barbra Streisand. Nobody is forcing you to go to church, read the Bible or pray. Period. But people have the right to do these things, the latter two wherever and whenever they bloody well please, which is what the 1st Amendment says.

            You have a problem with that? I have good news for you! Several airlines are offering non-stop flights to Cuba! Pack your bags of anti-Christian bigotry, and get out.

            I am done with you.

          • Guzzman

            You wrote, the Constitution “doesn’t contain the phrase, ‘Separation of church and state.'” I never said it did. That’s President Jefferson’s insightful metaphor describing the religious clauses of the First Amendment, acting together they have the effect of “building a wall of separation between Church and State.” In Reynolds v. United States (1879) the Supreme Court argued that Jefferson’s writings concerning a wall of separation between church and state “may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment.”

            The founders sought separation in the Constitution by establishing a government where power is based on “We the People”, not on a god, divine sovereignty, or anything related to religion. They sought separation by granting no power of any sort to the government over religious matters. They sought separation by making no mention of religion except to prohibit religious tests as a qualification for office.

            And they said as much. I have provided several quotes from James Madison that explicitly stated that the Constitution provides a separation between religion and government. In 1833, Madison argued against the notion of combining religion and government. He wrote: “In the papal system, government and religion are in a manner consolidated, and that is found to be the worst of government.”

            Upholding our secular Constitution is not “anti-Christian bigotry”, it is merely advocating that government stay out of the business of taking sides on religious matters. Individuals have the freedom to decide for themselves what to believe. That is why the Kansas Police Department ultimately and wisely decided to remove the religious decal from its government vehicle.

          • MarkSebree

            Really? From what I have read, you are the one that keeps getting “spanked”, not Guzzman. He has been supporting his claims, and you have been dismissing them without refuting them.

          • Slidellman4life

            Really?

            Yes. Really. You win debates with facts, not distortions and lies.

            Which is why your opinion doesn’t mean much.

          • MarkSebree

            “You win debates with facts, not distortions and lies.”

            That is why I use facts, rather than distortions or lies like you.

            “Which is why your opinion doesn’t mean much.”
            You mean because I do not like and distort reality like you do, my opinions do not matter much? Sorry, but that is why my opinions do matter at least as much as yours do, if not more. Unlike you, I prefer to use facts and reference reality rather than rely on fantasies like religion.

          • Slidellman4life

            You just went full retard. Bye.

          • MarkSebree

            “You just went full retard. Bye.”
            Sorry, but I did not emulate you at all. All you have are insults and ad hominems. You have lost because you have nothing objective to support your claims. So, you have run away.

          • namelessghost

            It’s just like playing chess with a pigeon, huh?

    • Emery Pearson

      It’s an obvious violation. O.o
      I don’t think you understand how the Constitution or even basic US law works. If taken to court, they would be found to be violating the law, and would have to pay on all the legal fees and any resulting settlement, hence it’s easier (and cheaper) to remove it.

      • Becky

        It’s you that doesn’t understand. The obvious violation is the misuse and the misinterpretation of the USC.

        • Slidellman4life

          It’s not that at all. These anti-Christian bigots only want any and all references to God removed from the public square because they actually believe a godless society is a better society.

          Funny, Stalin felt that way, too.

        • Emery Pearson

          Lol, tell that to the city then, they were convinced it was that law without even going to court.

    • http://bit.ly/glUAR7 Calladus

      Hm. Someone else who hasn’t read the Fourteenth amendment.

      • MarkSebree

        Yeah. They always seem to forget that it exists, and that it applies to all the rest of the Constitution.

      • Slidellman4life

        Relevance.

        • MarkSebree

          High degree of relevance. The 14th Amendment extends the constitutional rights and protections throughout all levels of government, which means that all levels of government are enjoined against showing any favoritism or disparagement towards any religion. That means that Christianity cannot be given special privileges and consideration, but must be treated as all other religions are.

          • Slidellman4life

            I said, R-E-L-E-V-A-N-C-E. The 14th Amendment has nothing to do with this at all.

          • MarkSebree

            “I said, R-E-L-E-V-A-N-C-E.”

            I saw what you said. That is why I kept what I said relevant.

            “The 14th Amendment has nothing to do with this at all.”

            Actually, the 14th Amendment has a lot to do with this. The 14th Amendment guarantees that the rights that are enumerated in the US Constitution and in federal law are applicable to all the states and all US citizens.

            Here is the text of Section 1 of the 14th Amendment:
            “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

            It basically states that all citizens have the same rights and deserve the same protection under the law. The US Supreme Court has recognized that this means that the state and local governments are also subject to the same restrictions as the federal government under the Constitution since if they were not, that would abridge their Constitutional rights. Brown vs The Board of Education is one of the best known of these types of cases, but there are others as well.

  • Stephen W.

    “Atheist activists” a/k/a Americans.

    • TheBottomline4This

      “Stephen W” is really Theodore Fenton. Good old Theo still sniffing around, but under another name. lol

      • Ronald Carter

        I don’t know why Theodore Fenton is, nor why anyone should care.

      • Stephen W.

        This is for my and my family’s protection. While visiting anti-gay hate sites such as this one, I have received numerous threats.

        • Oboehner

          Then by all means go away.

          • MarkSebree

            Why shouldn’t he confront bullies like you, and point out your lies? Because you do not want him to?

        • Slidellman4life

          Why are you even here?

        • Charles

          Well.. I remember one discussion of having with a Lesbian, explaining that Homosexuality was a sin.. She said she couldn’t wait for my death, not to mention the other vile things she said.. ha ha.. Goes both ways.

          • Frank Dorka

            Christians have told this atheist the same thing…and worse.

          • Charles

            There is really no need for that in an intelligent discussion. I’ve seen some on here that can be rude on either side, but they don’t stick around long.. Most (Both sides) here are respectful from what I’ve seen.

        • Chet

          What hate? Where? Please cite example(s). All I note is what saith the Lord in his Word. And God is love not hate…

  • https://twitter.com/saynoobama Liar In Chief

    Why don’t we complain and whine against the Atheists and see how we feel when they persecute us!

    • Frank Dorka

      Hey, you try walking the walk an atheist does everyday and see how the “good” Christians treat you. This “religious freedom” has been nothing more than “Christian privilege” for way too long. Persecution? You have NO idea.

      • Oboehner

        Christian privilege, yeah right. Whose religion is being taught is “science” class as fact? It ain’t Christianity.

        • Frank Dorka

          It ain’t religion either. Science is fact, Religion is not fact. Clear?

          • Oboehner

            Right, but evolution is religion not fact. Clear?

          • Frank Dorka

            So, you don’t believe in evolution but prefer creation because of what you learned from the Bible. What does your Bible say about extinction, or doesn’t that exist either?

          • Oboehner

            The predictable assumption, followed by the also predictable hack on the Bible. Evolution is still a religion.

          • Frank Dorka

            I guess you are right. Evolution is the one true god, without exception.
            Y’know, an actual answer from you would be nice, instead of the old “Christian shuffle”.

          • Oboehner

            Religion: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.
            Yup I’m right.

        • Emery Pearson

          Science is taught in science class. Why would you teach anything religious in the science classroom?

          • Oboehner

            Why are they teaching religion in science class then?

          • Emery Pearson

            Probably because the Christian majority dies what they can to shove it in

          • Emery Pearson

            The Christian majority insists on shoving it on schools, with the decline of religion, this should be corrected as time passes.

          • Oboehner

            I hardly think the “Christian majority” is shoving evolution on the schools.

          • Emery Pearson

            Yes, that is correct. There would be no issue if that was the reality.

          • Oboehner

            I seriously doubt that, but it seems the atheist minority shoves things in schools constantly, however.

          • Emery Pearson

            Science isn’t a belief system, its a method of investigation, and it doesn’t belong to atheists. There have been and are many Christians who use and contribute to science. If you find yourself declaring you don’t believe in a deity from learning high school biology, perhaps your faith was never very important to you to begin with.

          • Oboehner

            Right, science not somebody’s religious belief such as evolution.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Hopefully nobody’s.

          • Oboehner

            Sorry, it’s been there for years under the lie of “science”.

        • http://bit.ly/glUAR7 Calladus

          Whose religion is being taught in science class? All too often it is religion’s religion.

          Atheism isn’t taught in science class because it has nothing at all to say about the nature of reality.

          • Oboehner

            Evolution has nothing to do with the nature of reality, yet there it is in all of it’s religiousness.

          • http://bit.ly/glUAR7 Calladus

            Says the guy who knows nothing about evolution and has proven it by this comment.

          • Oboehner

            The old “says the guy who knows nothing about evolution” shtick. Have nothing huh?

        • Ronald Carter

          It isn’t any other religion either. Not in science class.

          • Oboehner

            The religion of evolution.

          • Ronald Carter

            Which is in no sense a religion, otherwise it would not be taught in science class. See how it works?

          • Oboehner

            Right, you still have nothing but nonsense.

          • Ronald Carter

            Right back atcha Sparky. Evolution is taught in science class worldwide. Fact. Reality. You lose.

    • MarkSebree

      Liar in Chief,

      Christians have been doing that for years already, and using Bible verses as ammo for that persecution. Why do you think atheists are fighting back against your persecution? As an example of what atheists typically have to deal with, read the Grace Kim Kwon posts and thread below.

      Christians are NOT being persecuted in the USA. All that is happening is that Christian privilege is being challenged, and Christians are being required to live by the same rules as everyone else.

      • Judy Zdzinnicki

        Grace Kim Kwon is an idiot.

        • MarkSebree

          Admittedly. However, she continues to use the same slurs and demonization that atheists have heard for years, if not generations.

          “Atheists have no moral code”. A false statement. Just because atheists do not rely on a book of religion for their morals does not mean that they do not have any.

          “Since atheists do not believe in divine reward and punishment, there is nothing that prevents them from committing all sorts of atrocities.” This one is actually very scary. It implies that many Christians, who are usually the ones saying this in the USA, would commit all sorts of atrocities against others if not for their religion. Which ignores history where Christians committed all sort of atrocities in the name of their religion. Atheists do not need a holy book to help them learn right from wrong. Simple compassion for others is usually more than enough.

          Psalms 14:1 – The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good.
          Proverbs 1:7 – The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
          These two are favorites of Christians used to dismiss anything that an atheist has to say, no matter how factual, pertinent, or relevant. Add to these several other verses dealing with “understanding”, which usually refers to religious “understanding” as opposed to understanding the facts and situation, and Christians will effectively shut out anyone who is an atheist, a “pagan”, or otherwise not Christian.

          And this is just a short list of easy to find and common examples. The list could go on for a long time.

          Understand that I am not claiming that all, or even most Christians are like this in general, but it is a common enough occurrence to be distressing. And the further to the right the speaker is, and the more fundamentalistic and/or evangelical, the more likely the personal will denigrate, demonize, and dismiss an atheist without considering what that person is actually saying.

          • Slidellman4life

            Atheists have every right to be wrong. It’s when they take that belief and try to make people live that way there’s a problem.

          • MarkSebree

            “[Christians] have every right to be wrong. It’s when they take that belief and try to make other people live that way there’s a problem.”

            Same statement applies to Christians even more readily than atheists since there are a great many Christians that do try to make people live by their beliefs rather than leaving others alone. Atheists do not have a reputation for doing that. Getting the GOVERNMENT to obey constitutional law is not the same thing as trying to force or require people to live according to beliefs that are not theirs, it is getting the government to treat all religions equally.

            You should try to show that atheists are indeed wrong. You make the claim to dismiss them, just as I said that Christians often do. You are demonstrating exactly the behavior that I described.

          • Slidellman4life

            But Christians are not wrong. We don’t believe morality comes from individual choice, like you do. We believe in personal responsibility. You don’t.

            The reason why your argument is a strawman is because if you allow people to decide what is right and wrong for themselves, then what is stopping someone from walking up to you and shooting you in the head because they believe in their own mind it is the right and moral thing to do?

            Don’t even try to go there. You’ll lose every time.

          • MarkSebree

            “But Christians are not wrong.”

            Actually, they tend to be as you continue to demonstrate.

            ” We don’t believe morality comes from individual choice, like you do. ” That is because I understand reality better than you do. Actually, morality comes from society, and many factors related to where and how you grew up, who your friends are and were, your experiences in life, your religion and denomination, your family, your socio-economic status, where you grew up, when you grew up, and many other things. That is why morals are constantly changing, and can even vary related on where you live. The general morals in Los Angeles are different from in rural Wyoming, which are different from New York, which are different from Paris, France, which are different from Beijing, China, which are different from Tokyo, Japan, and so on. They are also different from what they were in the 1960’s, the 1920’s, the 1890’s, and so on back through time.

            Something to keep in mind. People of the same religion can see the same acts as either moral or immoral, which means that morals must actually come from someplace else. Some Christians seen abortion as immoral, most do not. Some Christians see homosexuality as immoral, most do not. Some Christians see women pastors as being immoral, many do not (including the women pastors). The list goes on. And that is just in one country’s (USA) population within one religion. When you start adding in all the various religions that people practice, you find that it becomes a true hodgepodge, and you start looking for other sources.

            “We believe in personal responsibility. You don’t.”
            And there is lie. Often, Christians try to abrogate their personal responsibility by “confessing their sins”, or saying “the devil made me do it”, or blaming it on their religion’s teachings, of some other nonsense. An atheist does not have that excuse. They have to take personal responsibility for their own actions.

            By the way, you have no clue as to what my personal and religious beliefs are.

            “The reason why your argument is a strawman is because if you allow people to decide what is right and wrong for themselves,”
            Actually, that is not a straw man, that is reality. there is no other place for morals to come from. If you want to claim that they come from some supernatural being, like a deity, than you first need to objectively prove that said being exists. A nonexistent being cannot give anyone anything.

            ” then what is stopping someone from walking up to you and shooting you in the head because they believe in their own mind it is the right and moral thing to do?”
            You have no idea what statements like this say about the people who say them. It gives an indication that the only reason that they do not wantonly kill people because of their religion (which is what you have been implying as being the source of your personal morals).
            That fact is that one big thing that keeps people from doing that is compassion and empathy for others. When calm, most people do not want to kill others for no reason. Another thing are our secular laws, and our law enforcement community. A third thing is that most people understand that without such laws, they would be subject to the same kinds of actions, especially as acts of revenge.

            These laws are not based on any religion, and these types of laws predate Judaism and Christianity. They date back to the oldest known written code of laws, the Code of Hammurabi.

            “Don’t even try to go there. You’ll lose every time.”
            Actually, I tend to win most times because I do not rely on subjective religion, but objective facts.

        • Slidellman4life

          Based on what?

          • MarkSebree

            Her posts.

          • Slidellman4life

            I didn’t ask you.

          • MarkSebree

            You asked the question in a public forum. That means that anyone can answer you.

    • http://bit.ly/glUAR7 Calladus

      Really? How many times has your car been keyed for having a religious symbol on it?

    • MarkSebree

      Liar in Chief,

      Christians have been doing that for years already, and using Bible verses as ammo for that persecution. Why do you think atheists are fighting back against your persecution? As an example of what atheists typically have to deal with, read the Grace Kim Kwon posts and threads below.

      Christians are NOT being persecuted in the USA. All that is happening is that Christian privilege is being challenged, and Christians are being required to live by the same rules as everyone else.

  • Nidalap

    Remember way back when men were men and knew it? They were raised to stand against idiocy back then…

    • http://bit.ly/glUAR7 Calladus

      They are men, and they are standing against idiocy. It’s religious people who are standing on the side of idiocy.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Hatred against Christianity = Hatred against everything that is good. USA has nothing good apart from Christianity. USA has been noble only because of Christianity. Atheism kills believers and unwanted children all over the world. Americans must not repay the good with evil to Christianity.

    • Jalapeno

      Being secular and being Christian are not mutually exclusive.

      I mean..half that other stuff you were saying is silly enough that I can’t even tell if you’re a troll..but..just thought that the one fact was worth pointing out.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        I remember the days when the Western secularism seemed to be neutral. They simply avoided making comments on religion and things looked peaceful. Today, secularists oppress the Christians by actively blaspheming against Christianity and forcing sexual decadence and abortion-murder businesses. Evil cannot stay the same size. Secularists are born-bullies and they desire to see religious people suffer. Post-christian West is mad again like in the days they prohibited the access to the Holy Bible. You guys must stop doing evil. You have no truth, no human rights, no liberty, and no equality apart from the Holy Bible.

        • Jalapeno

          ” Today, secularists oppress the Christians by actively blaspheming against Christianity and forcing sexual decadence and abortion-murder businesses”

          ..So you’re okay with it as long as they don’t say anything bad about your religion? Interesting standards. Pretty thin skin.

          “Secularists are born-bullies and they desire to see religious people suffer”

          You think that the religious secularists desire to see religious people suffer? Interesting.

          ” You have no truth, no human rights, no liberty, and no equality apart from the Holy Bible.”

          From YOUR perspective.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Christianity brought the truth, salvation, charity, literacy, medical care, lawfulness, and goodness to Europe and America and to the entire world. Both the Westerners and pagans have no rights to slander Christianity. Religious secularists are confused people. Atheism only committed mass murder. You must go back to the Origin and read the Holy Bible; wholesome morality and good values and wisdom and intelligence of the Western civilization are found in the Holy Bible. You must acknowledge your Creator God, repent of your sins, and trust in Jesus to get saved.

          • Jalapeno

            ” Both the Westerners and pagans have no rights to slander Christianity”

            I’m guessing you haven’t heard of freedom of speech, eh?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Freedom of speeches was established for declaring the truth by the Christians, and not for slandering other people’s religions or one’s own good ancestors. You guys must stop repaying the good with evil and start being thankful to God and to your parents.

          • Jalapeno

            Freedom of speech applies equally..you’re not protected from having your feelings hurt.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Equality must never push godlessness or immorality. You guys are wrong to hate Christianity because Christianity is good and vital. Police officers should be left alone to decorate their cars with the Scripture verses since USA was created by Christianity. USA is not atheistic country. Any Americans who hate Christianity are the villains. Why can’t you just leave Christians alone in doing what is good? Mankind needs Christianity for salvation and safety.

          • Jalapeno

            It’s not punishment, it’s equality.

            You can speak against other people..are you expecting those same people to protect your feelings?

          • Frank Dorka

            Exactly. Does Grace really understand how bad she sounds? It’s like she would be happier in another country…where they force their religion aon others. That is not America, sweety.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You secular Westerners should stop mocking other people’s serious religions. Secularism has no sense of respect and is evil. The world never mocked your racist forefathers but they mock today’s politically correct Americans because you never respect your own parents.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            Again the generalities. I respect my parents and always have. Jesus preached against hating others, you should learn this.

          • Slidellman4life

            And this is not the Soviet Union, sweetie.

          • MarkSebree

            This is also not a “Christian Nation”, a theocracy, or a theonomy. It is a secular nation, and has been since its inception. You do not have the right to require others to live according to your beliefs, and you do not have the right to try to use the government to try to impose your beliefs onto others.

          • Slidellman4life

            And you think you do? When you tell me, an American, I don’t have the right to mention God or Jesus in public, regardless of what the Constitution says, what do you think you’re doing?

          • namelessghost

            Who told you, an American, that you don’t have the right to mention God or Jesus in public?

            Exactly no one.

          • Slidellman4life

            No one except the FFRF, the ACLU, Americans United, etc.

          • namelessghost

            Well now you’re just telling big, fat lies.

          • Slidellman4life

            Prove it.

          • namelessghost

            I’ve looked and looked and I couldn’t find even one instance where the FFRF, the ACLU, Americans United, etc. told Slidellman4life that you don’t have the right to mention God or Jesus in public.

            So it’s really up to you to prove that it did happen. Good luck with that.

          • Slidellman4life

            You are being intellectually dishonest. I never meant myself solely and specifically. Those organizations most certainly have used people in black robes to restrict the constitutional rights of others. You know it, too.

          • namelessghost

            No, I’m not. No, they haven’t. And no, I don’t.

            I do know that it would be next to impossible for you to find a single instance of one of those organizations telling an ordinary citizen that they didn’t have the right to mention God or Jesus in public.

          • Slidellman4life

            NOW who’s the liar? Everyone knows that’s BS. Including you.

          • MarkSebree

            “NOW who’s the liar?”

            Still you.

            “Everyone knows that’s BS. Including you.”

            Actually, namelessghost’s statement is accurate. The only one spouting BS here is you. YOU have claimed that organizations like the ACLU, FFRF, and Americans United for the Separation of Church and State have worked to prevent ordinary citizens from mentioning their religious beliefs in public. Therefore, YOU are the one responsible for supporting your claims. Trying to employ the logical fallacy called “shifting the burden of proof” will only result in you showing yourself to be a liar, and losing the debate. Referencing politicians, public school teachers or employees, or anyone else who was representing a governmental entity at the time, or referencing politicking from the pulpit will also result in you losing since those people are not “ordinary citizens”. Government representatives enduring religion “on the clock” is a violation of the Establishment Clause of the US Constitution, and politicking from the pulpit is a violation of the tax code which allows places of worship to be tax exempt.

          • namelessghost

            It’s still you.

          • Slidellman4life

            Only in your own warped little mind.

          • namelessghost

            Looks like I was right. You can’t find a single instance of one of those organizations telling an ordinary citizen that they didn’t have the right to mention God or Jesus in public.

          • Slidellman4life

            Nope. This isn’t about me and never has been. You called me a liar. I asked you to prove it. Instead you decided to be intellectually dishonest. Just like every other anti-Christian bigot.

            Bye.

          • namelessghost

            I said you were telling big, fat lies. You’re the one who called me a liar.

            You made a claim that you can’t prove, called me a liar and a bigot, and somehow I’m the one who’s being intellectually dishonest. And you still can’t prove your claim.

          • MarkSebree

            None of them would prevent you from mentioning your deity in public. In fact, all of them would fight for your right to do so. Unless, of course, you were abusing your government position in order to force your subordinates and those whom you have control over to convert to your religion or suffer for it.

          • MarkSebree

            “And you think you do?”
            No. But I am not the one that is trying to use the government or government position to impose my beliefs onto others.

            “When you tell me, an American, I don’t have the right to mention God or Jesus in public, regardless of what the Constitution says, what do you think you’re doing?”
            Correcting you, since you obviously do not understand what I said, and you seem to be distorting it in order to make your supposed argument. Apparently, you do not understand the US Constitution.

            For starters, I am also an American and a veteran. I never said that you do not have the right to mention any of your religious beliefs in public. I said that you cannot require others to follow your religion. That violates THEIR freedom of religion. I also said that you cannot use the government or your position in the government to impose your beliefs onto others. That is a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

            When you are a government official or a military member, your rights and responsibilities are modified because of your position. You carry the power of the government behind you, and the Constitution does place limits on what can be done by the government. When you are in uniform as a government official, or on the clock your religion no longer matters, and it cannot have anything to do with your actions or your decisions. As a county clerk, for example, you might think that divorcees should be able to marry, or people of different races, or homosexuals, or people of different religions, or any other reason because of your religious beliefs. None of that matters. You are REQUIRED to treat EVERY person or couple that comes through that door desiring a marriage license that some way. You are require to apply the laws in the same manner, and if they would be meet the qualifications to get married under the law, then you are required to issue them a marriage license. You can worship whatever you want and however you want on your own time, but not on government time.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Why do you care for other people’s feelings all the time? Care for objective truth more. Americans need Christianity to get saved and be good. Atheism only brings depair and death. You guys should be happy to have visible proofs that some policemen are Christians because all Christians have a duty to do utmost good for everyone. These are the facts.

          • Jalapeno

            You’re the one who wants YOUR feelings protected.

            You’re the one who thinks that people shouldn’t be allowed to speak against you. Do you not care about other peoples freedom?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, the fact is that the atheists and Sodomites are oppressing the Christians in the land of USA today. If Christians are not having freedom, it means everyone is being mistreated in the land one way or another. Christians are the only species to supply objective truth, rights, liberty, and justice to all.

          • Jalapeno

            So.. You agree that they should be allowed to be blasphemous? Good.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Blaspheming is wrong and should be outlawed. You must stop prefering the evil.

          • Jalapeno

            So.. You want to take away people’s freedom of speech?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Freedom is to do good, not to do evil. Blasphemy(mockeries for mockery’s sake) is a hate crime. You just want to see religious people suffer.

          • Jalapeno

            Wow, you’re an extremely fragile person aren’t you.

            Are really so unsure about your views that you can’t stand the idea of someone even speaking against it? It’s not a hate crime, it’s just normal speech…and you’re advocating for taking away other peoples freedoms because you get your feelings hurt.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Your deadliest cultural defects are blasphemy and mentally-ill inclination to Sodomy. An observation made.

          • Jalapeno

            Sure sure, if you say so.

            So what exactly should we outlaw? Saying that Christianity is wrong? Saying that abortion is good? Doing things that conflict with your ideals?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            As much as you take caution for the racial minorities and women. You elevate men and fear men but not God; humanism has been wrong all along.

          • Jalapeno

            What should we outlaw?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Mockeries and blasphemies done for mockery’s sake. Offensive stupid cartoons, too. Secular Western comedians should mock themselves instead of other people and their serious religions if they so desire to mock.

          • Jalapeno

            So..is it okay to say “I think your religion is stupid and you’re all going to hell”? Is it okay to say “Any religion which condemns gay people is awful and people shouldn’t belong to it”?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            If you only stop in that level. You must have no idea what your fellow Sodomy-supporting atheists are doing. What the Holy Bible teaches is this: “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But
            now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you
            have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” ( Romans ch.3, 6)

          • Jalapeno

            “If you only stop in that level”

            So..you’re okay with it as long as you don’t perceive it as mockery?

            Is it okay with you if Christians mock other religions? Is it okay if people mock atheists?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Work your common sense and a sense of respect. Christians don’t mock but only teach. Atheists have nothing they cherish to feel being mocked.

          • Jalapeno

            That’s not what I asked.

            Would it be legal?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            More laws get required where people have no common sense or the sense of respect. Secularism has no respect for anyone and anything; that’s the problem. No God = No respect for anyone or anything. This has been your problem for at least last 3 decades. That’s why there are so many Anti-Americans in the land of America today.

          • Jalapeno

            Still didn’t answer the question.

            Would it be illegal to mock an atheist?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            How did they mock atheists? What was done against them? Atheism is not good anyway. Atheism is evil. Did anyone die for the belief of atheism?

          • Jalapeno

            You’re the one that says that a law needs to be put in place to protect people from “mockery”.

            Would Christians be the only ones protected? Would you stand up and fight against people “mocking” atheists? Would you stand up and fight for Muslims or Wiccas?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You must differenciate telling facts and mocking.

          • Jalapeno

            You’re the one who wants the law…

            In the law that YOU WANT, would atheists be protected?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, Christianity is the only thing that can protect everyone on earth with free will. Secular West is too dominated by the evil-intended atheists.

          • Jalapeno

            Okay, so..you just think that everyone should be punished for mocking someone else based on their religion.

            Should mocking someone based on their race be punishable?

            What about mocking them based on something they said?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            ? Hate crimes against people groups are already established. You just need to stop blaspheming against Christianity and killing the unwanted children in wombs and forcing the Christians to endorse the sins of Sodomy.

          • Jalapeno

            Hate crimes, yes.

            Mocking someone is not a hate crime though.

            Should it be illegal to mock someone for acting stupid? What about mocking someone for being a certain race?

            What about telling a group that they aren’t worth as much as other groups?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It depends. Case by case. Western nations have good laws regarding minorities and women. It’s the unborn babies and some white males and Christians and the religion of Christianity that are being abused. Your civilization abuses the majority. Very weird and unprecedented.

          • Jalapeno

            Cute.

            So..is the law just “no religions can be mocked”?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The secular Westerners mock monotheisms too much, like some madmen. And their mental slaves mimick the evil elsewhere. That must be stopped. Secularists are nice to Eastern religions because those don’t condemn sins clearly.

          • Jalapeno

            What is this law that you want prohibiting?

            Mocking of any religion?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, the mockery of religions should be outlawed. The West needs Christian education to learn to respect God and all peoples. Christian education needs to be made free.

          • Jalapeno

            What do you want prohibited, exactly?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Blasphemies

          • Jalapeno

            So..how do you define “mockery”?

            Are religions the only thing protected?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Blasphemies, killing the children in wombs in spite of the mothers’ life is not in danger, and demanding others to serve immorality or abortion.

          • Jalapeno

            Okay..so you just want to be protected from things that hurt your feelings.

            Got it.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You must not dishonor God or hurt innocent defenseless human beings or force others to do evil. That’s the basics of lawfulness. Atheism/secularism has no basics in any sense.

          • Jalapeno

            Cool cool.

            Is atheism a religion?

            Does hurting someones feelings ALWAYS count as blasphemy? I thought you said that mockery was the problem though…not blasphemy.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Western atheists mock God knowingly and that’s why they are so evil. Atheism is a religion of worshiping the filthy self. It brings death and despair. You need salvation.

          • Jalapeno

            Great.

            Is it a religion? Are they protected from being insulted?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, the secular Westerners claim atheism only to mock Christianity. Atheists do not care about anything but only take delight in bullying the gentle Christians. No one risks anything for atheism because atheism has nothing worthy. Atheists claim to be anything to save their skin.

          • Jalapeno

            I thought you said that everyone got protections?

            What about Satanists? Do they get protections too?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Everyone has been protected under Christianity in the name of freedom of religion. Satanism should be charged by the Christendom because all they have is a perversion of what Christianity has. Villains have nothing original but only the corruption of the good. Murderers should be charged for murder crimes. No exception.

          • Jalapeno

            So..only the religions that you agree with get protections?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The good must be protected and promoted. The bad must get educated to seek the good. The criminals should get judicial justice. A common sense. You are confused because you switched the good and the evil.

          • Jalapeno

            Got it.

            You want to ignore the constitution because your feelings can’t take being hurt. How mature of you.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Constitution is impossible to carry out apart from the Judeo-Christian values. Today’s USA is broke and that’s why they only adhere atheism and nullify the constitution.

          • namelessghost

            Blasphemy is not illegal. Abortion is not illegal. Sodomy is not illegal.

            You know what is illegal? Making laws for all of society based solely on the beliefs of one religion.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            All Westerners need Christianity for sanity and morality. Without Christianity, the West’s moral standard is below the illiterate pagan level. Rule of the law or legality means nothing if the culture is evil and immoral. Don’t make a Nazi Germany out of USA legally this century by oppressing the Christian conscience. USA needs Judeo-Christian values to do what is right.

          • MarkSebree

            “All Westerners need Christianity for sanity and morality.”

            I don’t. You are showing the insanity and immorality of someone who is too religious and narrow-minded quite well.

            “Without Christianity, the West’s moral standard is below the illiterate pagan level.”

            Without Christianity, the West’s moral standard tends to rise quite a lot.

            “Rule of the law or legality means nothing if the culture is evil and immoral. ”
            From what I have read of your posts, you are the one that wants to make our culture evil and “immoral”. You want to abandon the values that make this country great, shred the US Constitution, and implement a world-wide theocracy/theonomy with your intolerant beliefs in control. You want to use your beliefs to oppress everyone that does not kowtow to them.

            “Don’t make a Nazi Germany out of USA legally this century by oppressing the Christian conscience.”
            Actually, it is the far right wing Christian fundamentalists/evangelicals/dominionists who are trying to make the USA into a version of Nazi Germany.

            “USA needs Judeo-Christian values to do what is right.”
            No, it does not. The USA needs education, compassion, empathy, and tolerance for others to do what is right.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Secularism’s broad-mind means submission to the rich pervs’ blasphemy and sexual depravity and killing the babies. The West has no proper conscience apart from Christianity. Humanism actually only kills as seen on today. Americans stole everything good and useful from the Christian British anyway. You invented only stuff, not much thoughts. Those belong to the Christian Europeans; you just copied them and developed. Post-christian West is forcing immorality upon the people, against the good religion of Christianity. Christian Evangelicals are the best American species who alone uphold the objective truth. Everything USA has as good is from Christianity. Anti-christian West only knows how to have corrosion of the good. You guys need Christianity. Don’t make USA just another foolish evil empire that will get reduced because of its evil. People must not submit to the American pervs anyway. No more slavery. Sin is slavery.

          • namelessghost

            There’s not one shred of truth in your entire post.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It’s a fact you guys are bullying the Christians in USA by losing a good conscience. Stop repaying the good with evil.

          • namelessghost

            Stop trying to convert everyone to your bassackward religion and maybe then you’ll find peace and happiness.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            There is only darkness and despair and meaninglessness outside of Christ. Christianity is incomparably good and life-giving. Jesus gives joy and peace. He is the Prince of Peace, and joy is in doing the will of God. Unbelieving Americans must stop hating Christianity. There cannot be happiness as long as mankind is killing the unborn children and the secular Westerners are forcing Sodomy upon the world. It is wrong to seek personal happiness in such a world. Save children first.

          • namelessghost

            “There is only darkness and despair and meaninglessness outside of Christ.”

            I beg to differ. I don’t live in darkness. I’m not despondent. I have a happy, meaningful life.

            “Unbelieving Americans must stop hating Christianity.”

            Christians must stop behaving so hatefully.

            ” …the secular Westerners are forcing Sodomy upon the world.”

            That’s ridiculous. No one is forcing anyone into sodomy. Except maybe rapists.

            Anyway, I find it rather strange how you are so fixated on this particular form of sexual activity.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, you have no happiness or meaning. If you did, you’d never have blasphemed or attacked Christians or supported the infanticide and Sodomy. It’s just your selfishness that you feel happy. Truth-telling is not hate but the true love. The Western Sodomic atmosphere demands endorsement of abnormal sexuality upon the already-sinful world. People have rights to the truth and morality. No more slavery to the rich pervs, never again. The West’s Sodomy hurts global children, but even some Western “Christians” condone it to make everyone lose human rights and liberty this century. This is the true crisis of mankind especially for children today. And the secular Americans hate Christianity too much because they want to keep sick decadence. Moral people do not hate Christianity like that.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            You don’t know her/him.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Western liberals talk and behave the same. You need Christianity for salvation.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            See you don’t know her/him. Who says she/he is a liberal? No where in any of her/his comments it is pointed out.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            There are patterns and evidences. Members of the same group reveal the same feature and the similar way of thoughts. Why do you care, by the way?

          • namelessghost

            You don’t have happiness or meaning. If you did, you wouldn’t be so consumed with telling everyone else how to live.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Adults do not seek happiness. It’s children who do that. Knowing and spreading God’s truth is the highest joy. You need Christians to tell you what to do or you will only harm yourself.

          • namelessghost

            You have a very twisted worldview.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It’s reality. Americans should learn what atheism has done to others and is doing to others. Americans are naive because they’ve been always well-treated by the most gentle and finest Protestant churches. The well-fed spoiled Western atheists should immigrate to North Korea, the purest form of their atheism.

          • namelessghost

            This nation of my birth affords me certain freedoms, so I am free to live according to my conscience, right here at home. Sorry to disappoint you.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The concept of freedom of conscience and humans rights is exclusively the Judeo-Christians values. No other conceived it. The Europeans got those from the Holy Bible, Americans got those from the Holy Bible and the Christian Europeans, and the rest of the world just copied them. The Westerners would have been average iliterate savages like the rest if they didn’t have the Christian Church. Learn the origin of things and the Giver(God) of life and every good thing. Read the Holy Bible.

          • namelessghost

            The people who lived here were doing just fine until the Christian Europeans showed up, forcing their religion on them and killing those who wouldn’t convert. Freedom of conscience and human rights just make good sense for people to live together in harmony. In no way does it come from your barbaric god.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Non-West had been living under the darkness of barbarism and demon-worships until the white Christian missionaries came with the light of the life-giving Christianity. Like all the illiterate savege Europeans did before and were made civilized by the Church, Non-European peoples converted to Christianity willfully in spite of hellish persecutions from all sides (atheists, pagans, etc.) all over the world because Christianity is the only incomparably true and good religion. You secuar Westerners regard the world’s human sufferings as an amusement to watch, and that’s why you slander the good Christianity like some madmen. The West has nothing worthy apart from Christianity; you only have stupid meaningless porn stories as your own without the Holy Bible. Those who slander the white Christian settlers of yesteryears should leave all the former English colonies including the USA and go back to wherever they are from.

          • namelessghost

            I am not wrong. It’s only slander if what is said is untrue, and what I’ve said is not untrue. Besides, Christianity should be able to withstand criticism, shouldn’t it?

            I am from the US, so it’s ridiculous for you to tell me to go back to where I’m from. I would never tell you to go back to where you are from, even though I doubt that you are from here, or if you even live here now. Because, unlike you, I live and let live.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, you are wrong. No one mimicked the First Nation but everyone on earth mimicked the Christian British including all Americans to be civilized and have a modern life. Unlike others, USA has racism problems only because today’s young people and the white liberals do not respect the early white Christian settlers. No respect for creators = No respect for anyone. You guys are quite meaningless apart from Christianity. You only have rights for doing evil, selfishness bad enough to knowingly kill babies, cussing words, stupid drinking parties, nudism, sexual depravity and greed as your culture apart from Christianity. Christianity is the only good thing about Europe and America, as man is defined by his conscience. You need Christianity to be sober. Every good thing about USA came from the white Christian settlers.

          • namelessghost

            “Unlike others, USA has racism problems only because today’s young people and the white liberals do not respect the early white Christian settlers.”

            America’s racism problems stem from slavery and the treatment of non-whites by your “good, white Christians.” Because of their arrogance and sense of entitlement, they viewed all non-whites as lesser people. These views led to slavery, reservations for Native Americans, internment camps, segregation, etc. Legally sanctioned privileges were given to white Americans that were not given to other Americans and it has taken many acts of Congress to even begin to put an end to the abusiveness of your white Christian heroes.

            Make no mistake, they would treat you as an outsider, too. You need to open your eyes.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong again. Black slaves and all colored people respected the racist white Christians and named their children even after the slave-owning white heroes. White Christians of yesteryears had countless outstanding superior things to mimic after and to learn from. You know nothing because you are too young and have no idea how much benefits including universal education and longer life span the world got exclusively from the white Christians heroes. Colored people world-wide willfully converted to Christianity in spite of heavy persecutions from local authorities, seeing and learning from the great white Christians.

            Today’s Post-christian Sodomic Westerners try to force Sodomy upon mankind, seeking only more money and power and popularity unlike their white Christian forefathers. That’s your problem. Mankind would never respect Western Sodom’s mental ill patients and it’s the matter of time; people submit to the Sodomic West now only because they are bribed or threatened or both. Secular West is acting like a perv rich who amuse themselves by oppressing the moral poor out of boredom. It’s typical. The Holy Bible alone provides the truth and freedom to mankind, both then and now.

          • namelessghost

            “Black slaves and all colored people respected the racist white
            Christians and named their children even after the slave-owning white
            heroes”

            You are a crazy person. They took those names because they didn’t have their own. Please crack open a book, other than the Bible, and try to learn something real.

            And what’s with all the sodomy talk? Honestly, sodomy is something I rarely, if ever, think about. But you are so obsessed with it you can’t carry on a conversation without bringing it up, even if it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Your fixation on sodomy is just plain weird.

            Oh, I almost forgot… thanks for the compliment about my youth. No one has thought me too young for anything in quite some time.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Colored people respected the racist white Christians and learned countless valuable things exclusively from them and converted to Christianity willfully because Christianity is absolutely life-saving and good. Racist Westerners of yesteryears are morally far better than perv Westerners of this century. Today’s secular West supports Sodomy( homosexuality, transgenderism, child-abuse, animal abuse, etc.) unconditionally and forces other nations to do the same by using the filthy power. You guys need Christian values to become normal again. You’ve been talking like a typical Western youth who has been educated to hate the white settlers(creators) of all English nations, the utopia on earth. Today’s white people are not being respected because you don’t respect your own white Christian ancestors but only take off clothes in public places. Stop blaspheming against Christianity and start honoring your parents as the Holy Bible commands. (Exodus ch.20) That wil solve USA’s racial problem from the root.

          • namelessghost

            “Colored people respected the racist white Christians…”

            Surely you jest. It’s just so difficult to take your nonsense seriously.

            “You’ve been talking like a typical Western youth who has been educated
            to hate the white settlers(creators) of all English nations, the utopia
            on earth.”

            And you’ve been talking like an extremely misguided crackpot. You really should check yourself.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You hardly know anything. It was just unthinkable for colored people to hurt a white person anywhere. White people brought education and medicine everywhere. Then the secular liberal white people suddenly started attacking their own Christian ancestors out of their sheer stupidity and boredom and lost any sense of respect and made all others lose any sense of respect for each other; today’s USA’s mess is the result. You guys need Christianity for some civility, not just for salvation of souls. Americans need to study the Word of God and history; because you don’t, you despise your forefathers who were far better than you. No other race despises their forefathers; only the liberal whites do because they hate the good Christianity unconditionally. Such hatred against the good and moral is the most heinous evil about today’s secular West.

          • namelessghost

            “You hardly know anything.”

            Must be my private Christian school education 😉

            But at least I know a little something. You really don’t know anything but what makes it even worse is that you think you know everything about everyone, everywhere.

            “No other race despises their own forefathers; only the liberal whites do
            because they unconditionally hate the good Christianity.”

            I don’t despise my forefathers. I despise the arrogant Christers of today, who think they are entitled to tell everyone else how to live, who discriminate against us every day, and who unconditionally hate anyone who is not a Christian.

            And since when is “liberal” a race?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, you don’t know anything. You’ve been always protected and thoroughly spoiled by the finest Protestant churches, and you have no idea on the life of Christian-less darkness. You don’t know the real world. Christians appear arrogant because Christians alone are always right. All other religions and ideologies and philosophies produce massive number of innocent victim groups one way or another. Christianity alone provides the truth and fairness and safety to all. No other can. Secular Western culture is the worst of all ideologies so far because it is sexually abnormal and altogether perverted. It hurts children more than anything else does. Christians alone among mankind unconditionally love everyone. You hate the Christians because you desire to cling to sinful lifestyles. Repentance is your only hope for the chance of life.

          • namelessghost

            All those words and you still say nothing.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The fact doesn’t change that you need to repent of your sins and trust in Jesus as your Saviour and Lord to get saved. Repent of your treason against God. You only need to give up your sinful lifestyle and nothing else. Cherish your soul. Man was not created to live out a filth but to glorify God. There will be Judgment Day to all who live on earth. (John ch.3)

          • namelessghost

            You go on and on saying the same things over and over like a mindless drone. You can’t even respond to direct questions. Why would I believe anything you say?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You keep writing to me, so I keep replying, hoping and praying that you will repent and renounce your sinful way. What you need does not change until you repent of your life. Read the Holy Bible, the eternal Word of God. Don’t waste your life. Planet Earth is a mere dot in the universe and even in the Milky Way Galaxy, but the planet contains Israel on it and God has come upon it once as Man. He will come again, this time to bring justice upon the Sodomic West and its brainless mimickers if the present world continues. You are very bad to attack the Christians who did only good to you. Ingratitude is a horrific sin, and it’s the root of problem of the entire secular West, the former Christendom. Life is meaningless apart from Christ; today’s mentally-ill Western culture is the mega proof of it.

          • namelessghost

            Indeed, you and I keep going back and forth and nothing will ever come of it. I will never share your beliefs and you’ll never stop telling me that I must, so I will just wish you well and say good night.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Thank you. Never say never about your unbelief. Lord Jesus can provide you life only if you repent. Say sorry to Him and return, as you should. Good night. Please visit a nearby Christ-centered Bible-believing church on Sunday morning.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            “Thus you say, ‘If our transgressions and our sins lie upon us, and we pine away in them, how can we then live?’ ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God,
            ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked
            turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why
            should you die?’”( Ezekiel ch.33)

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            She really thinks that we in the west those who don’t believe only think about sex. But she is the one who keeps mentioning sex.

          • namelessghost

            I’ve often wondered why Christians are so fixated on what other consenting adults do in their bedrooms…

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            I’m very happy, even without your God. I’ve been to a Christian school for six years, I’ve been baptised, I’ve done my two communions. But then I woke up, saw the riches in the churches, read about priests molesting children, stopped believing in the stories in the bible. Come on a virgin birth, a flood? Give me a break.

            No, I find joy in helping people. I volunteered for the red cross, I volunteered for foodbanks, I volunteered for meals on wheels. I still volunteer for a program at the horsefarm I work, who by the way takes in rescues, where underprivilged youth has the chance to interact with horses and ponies, groom them, even learning how to ride, if they want too. We already have some of those kids competing in jumping and dressage and *gasp* I’m an Atheist. I guess you don’t need to be a Christian to be able to help people.

            Uhm, what is wrong with personal happiness?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It is very sad that you never met Jesus. Most churches are very poor and most priests are godly and decent and sacrificial. Jesus is God, and the evidences of the world-wide flood are everywhere throughout the world. People need forgiveness of sins and eternal life, more than anything else. You’d do good only when it’s convenient. All you do is vain as long as you support abortion and Sodomy. Unwanted children are not sub-humans and they have rights to life, and all children need Christian morality to live happily because exposure to immorality is a child-abuse.

            You expect Christians to be good and to help people; Christians expect nothing good from the atheists. We just hope you won’t harm yourselves and the unborn children or persecute religious people. It’s wrong to pusue personal happiness while supporting infanticide and immorality. The world will be wiped out by fire. II Peter ch.3. You need to repent of your unbelief and trust in Jesus Christ to get saved. He is the Saviour of the world.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            and the evidences of the world-wide flood are everywhere throughout the world.

            So I’ll guess you have proof for your claim?

            You’d do good only when it’s convenient.

            You don’t know me, so don’t pretend you do.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Fossile records throughout the world and the flood tales all over the world. We are all Noah’s descendants and retained the story although the Hebrews were the best at it, as usual. Christians do good for the sake of Jesus and give up life for another. Like I said, you are a typical of Western atheists. You need Jesus for salvation. Why do you guys come to Christian news site and torment Christians? Why?

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Fossile records throughout the world and the flood tales all over the world

            sources?

            Like I said, you are a typical of Western atheists.

            Like I said you don’t know me.

            Why do you guys come to Christian news site and torment Christians?

            I found the article interesting, hence I’m here. Don’t like it, not my problem. I’m free to come and go on any channel as I please, I don’t need your permission.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Too numerous. Study yourself on the locations of world-wide fossile records. My question is: why do you talk with me when you can’t be nice to me? What is your purpose of talking with me continuously? You have no content to offer or evangelize. You know I’d never accept atheism’s worship of self and nothingness. I know how one can receive eternal life from God and that’s why I talk with you every time you come to me. Don’t trade Jesus with anything; it’s been the most wicked and foolish thing. Return to God in repentance so you will have life. (John ch.10)

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            why do you talk with me when you can’t be nice to me?

            Uhm, pot, kettle, black comes to mind. You’re the one saying that the only good people are Christians. I’m deffending those who are not Christians, including me. You still questioning why people turn away from Christianity or are not interested in the first place? I suggest you re-read your own comments and think about it. You want the whole world to become like you, committed to one religion. I have news for you, that isn’t going to happen. Deal with it.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Everyone needs repentance and faith in Jesus for salvation. I want you to get saved. If atheists had any niceness really as they claim, they’d leave Christians alone in trusting in Jesus. Christianity is good and noble, but the Western atheists come to even Christian news sites to bully and grieve the believers although the Church did good to you and nourished you for 2,000 long years. You guys are just another proof that Christianity is right.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            I don’t need saving, I’m very happy where I am. Just read an article about some new Christian group in Maine who wants to make homosexuality a crime there. And again proof that it is the Christians who are bullying those who don’t fit into their world. And still you and many others keep wondering why people are turning away from your religion or are not interested. This example is one of the reasons.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, you do. You think your are happy, but your soul needs rescue. You have no idea what’s best for you. Homosexuality is a disgusting sin. It leads to pedophilia, and if you can have lust for a same-sex member, anything and everything in the world would become the object of a sick lust. LGBT people need to be protected from harms and bullying, but it’s insane for the secular West to call their living in sin as marriage and force normal people to treat it as marriage and surrender the children to be raised by them. The Westerners have been too well-fed for the longest time and you guys are being bored of life by abandoning of Christianity, and that’s why the mental illness is so persisting. Rich pervs seek sick amusement by oppressing poor people; it’s the way of raw humans. The West lost its wits by hating Christianity their only sane conscience. You guys really need Christianity for sanity before the perv West harms global children further.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Homosexuality is a disgusting sin. It leads to pedophilia

            No it doesn’t. It’s a myth you Christians love to point out.

            and if you can have lust for a same-sex member, anything and everything in the world would become the object of such sick lust.

            And again, you don’t know me.

            And again, you’re a very narrow minded Christian.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            All white men’s land was normal only when they were under the theocracy of Christianity. You guys have become weird and confused and got addicted to blasphemies and sexual perversions after abandoning Christianity. Having everything is such a woe to mankind. I feel sorry for your hard-working intelligent Christian ancestors. What a waste of all the efforts for the truth and liberty to have sexual addicts as descendants. The Christian religion was the only good thing and the lifeline of the Western civilization. Secular West is persecuting the Christians because people actively want only depravity. Get some morality by giving up the destructive perversion. You’ve been deceived by your filthy culture. Read the Word of God and become human again.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            All white men’s land was normal only when they were under the theocracy of Christianity.

            All whites men’s land have never been onder a theocracy. Try reading a history book sometimes. On no wait, you only believe your bible being the true history of the world.

            and the rest of you comment once again proofs that you want the whole world under theocracy. Good thing that will never happen.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Europe and all former British colonies including America were under Christian theocracy. Read their anthems and national documents. They were normal and average back then; no collective sexual pervs’ atrocities. Some Christians and Jews were superb species. King Jesus is returning to Planet Earth to burn the Sodomic West and all the baby-killers, and it’ll be too late for you to admit your sin by then. Repent now and get a life. (John ch.8-10, Revelation ch.20-22)

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Europe and all former British colonies including America were under Christian theocracy.

            Nope, not true. You really need to brush up on your history. you know why the europeans got to the US right? because in europe they where persecuted for their believes. So no, not all white mans land as you call it where under any theocracy. Maybe you wished it was so.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            So it’s really absurd that USA is persecuting the Biblical Christians this century for opposing Sodomy. The Westerners are not truly intelligent apart from Christianity. Knowledge, wisdon, prudence, and goodness is of God alone. (Proverbs ch.1) Europe and America and all other British colonies always dreamed of a Christendom on its own believing it is the right way because Christianity is utmost good. Raw mankind has been always foolish one way or another but never actively hated morality itself like today’s secular Western nations.

            You Westerners should have really stopped at the point where you just abolished racist crimes against the colored people. No one imagined a crazy civilization who actively enforces sexual depravity upon everyone ranting equality. Mental illness and destruction of children is the price of attacking the Christianity. Even the nudist ancient pagan Greeks sought the good and found Christianity and got saved. You guys are truly hopeless. At least stop bullying the Christians in your land now. Read the Holy Bible, repent, and live.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So it’s really absurd that USA is persecuting the Biblical Christians this century for opposing Sodomy.

            Are the Christians in the US being not alowed to practice their religion? Are Christians in the US being executed because of their religion? Are Christians in the US being tortured because of their religion? Do Christians have to flee their homes because of their religion? If you can answer all those questions with yes, then you have a reason to call yourself a victim of persecution.

            Europe and America and all other British colonies always dreamed of a Christendom on its own believing it is the right way because Christianity is utmost good.

            Well they can keep dreaming, cause that will never happen.

            You can practice your religion in the US and Europe as long as you understand that you being religious is a reason to be intollerant towards people who don’t fit into your little world. I don’t hate Christians, I hate however that Christians use their religion to discriminate or be hatefull towards people who don’t believe, towards LGBT, towards other religions and towards other races.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            US Christians are being fined and imprisoned for not-recognizing same-sex “marriage” as marriage. Feds and states are oppressing the churches and Christian schools not to teach against sins. Yes, Christians are being persecuted in the West. It’s the matter of time the secular West will show its true colors fully( they desire to legalize pedophilia), but it’ll be too late for everyone by then. They will abuse children, and God will burn the planet. Mankind has rights to life. People have to point out now the secular West’s filthy mental illness for what it is. The West always does mega evil when they do not follow the Holy Bible or work out the Christian conscience. Today’s godless West is creating an oppressive Sodomic dystopia out of the Christian utopia for which their noble Christian forefathers worked hard. You guys need Christianity to regain a normal conscience.

            The world did not struggle only to be overcome by the Western Sodom. It’s not a coincidence the West and their follower nations are decreasing in the number of descendants and have a big foreign population within. Sodom cannot have peace. Today’s Western Europe and America are downright wrong to force people to treat sexual depravity and the despicable mental illness( transgenderism) as something normal. LGBT people need life and certain rights to live(excluding marriage and access to children), but today’s secular Western culture is a child-abuse because it is too immoral. Children have rights to innocence. The powerfuls are also threatening the poor nations to adopt such Satanic perversions. This must be stopped now. You guys need to learn to be ashamed of sins instead of boasting about those. There is nothing normal about it. Every culture needs a fix by the Church, but the Post-christian one is the worst among all. Repent of your sins and live. (Isaiah ch.40)

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            US Christians are being fined and imprisoned for not-recognizing same-sex “marriage” as marriage.

            No they are being fine, not imprisoned, for not doing their jobs, big difference.

            It’s the matter of time the secular West will show its true colors fully( they desire to legalize pedophilia)

            Any proof for that claim? Probably not. Your answer will be some more jada, jada, jada.

            And the rest of your comment is the same as all your comments. So just give up, you got nothing interesting to say as the same old crap you write every time.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            USA is persecuting the Biblical Christians. A fact. Too many secular Westerners think evil has rights as well as the good does. And if the two are in a collision, secular Westerners demand the good to yield to the evil; that has been the pattern since the 80’s. Unprecedented unfairness. Drinking parties are bad to brain. After losing Christianity, the Western world has nothing noble to protect. They only have selfishness and sexual decadence as their core values. The proof is your attitude. You should be ashamed of a sinful lifestyle instead of attacking the truth-speaking Christians. You wrote me in a Christian news site and I only replied to you. You guys want to silence the Christians in the society because you guys are being bored. Silencing the Christians is just another evil.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            You should be ashamed of a sinful lifestyle

            Again, you don’t know me. I’m hetero and been celibate for the last 20 years. I’m 47 now, so try again.

            And as I thought no proof for your claim (It’s the matter of time the secular West will show its true colors fully( they desire to legalize pedophilia)). Didn’t expect anything else from you.

            You guys want to silence the Christians in the society because you guys are being bored.

            Pot, kettle, black come to mind.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Jolanda, secular West and their mental slaves’ problem is the attitude of accepting Sodomy as a norm, not just the actual practice of sexual immorality. They will legalize something far worse and sicker than homosexuality soon because the West has no moral standard whatsoever apart from the Christian religion. You guys still have some sense of right and wrong only because of some salvage of Christian heritage. You only have porn stories and nudism and sexual chaos apart from Christianity, although even the ancient Greeks sought the good and got converted to Christianity later.

            Post-christian West seeks no truth or the good and is just bent for blaspheming and bullying the Christians for opposing the culture’s filthy mental illness and killing babies for manual reduction of population. You guys never got rid of bullies’ mentality. The victims were powerless colored people before, but now the Biblical Christians are about being fully persecuted for stating God’s Truth as it is. Wake up, please. Enough of the West’s corrosion from having a full-stomach. Perv rich should not oppress the moral poor, as the Holy Bible states. You guys are just seeking planet-wide troubles because of severe boredom. I feel sorry for your hard-working Christian forefathers.

            Return to God in repentance; it’s your only way to be saved and sane. Stop hurting your own Western children by amorality. Sodom has no future. Read the Book of Jude chapter 1.

          • namelessghost

            “… God will burn the planet. Mankind has rights to life.”

            Do you even pay attention to what you say?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Because of the Western Sodom, mankind faces more calamities upon the present earth though innocent humans have rights to longer life. You guys didn’t need to go that bad since you were once a Christendom before. It’s all because of the well-fed rich pervs who enslave poor people, the planet is on a unrecoverable mess. Stop being bored. Other people are living seriously. Enough of your heinous amusement. Wake up and repent of your sins to be saved. (Revelation ch.9, John ch.3)

          • Bob Johnson

            Yes Jolanda, you only think you are happy. You may also feel that you are happy. But real happiness can only be achieved after reading “The Art of Happiness” by Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama.

          • Joe

            Is it then reasonable to conclude that you are a Buddhist?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            “He(Jesus Christ) is the image of the invisible God… By Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.” (Colossians ch. 1)

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            You do realise quoting a bible verse to an Atheist has no effect what so ever, right?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You must know God’s truth to live and not die. Christianity brings life and light. Atheism is despair and death. “The thief (atheists, etc.) does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I(Jesus) have come that they(people) may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.” (Read John ch.10)

          • MarkSebree

            “It’s a fact you guys are bullying the Christians in USA by losing a good conscience. ”
            Fighting back against bullies such as you does not make any of us bullies.

            “Stop repaying the good with evil.”
            We aren’t “repaying the good with evil”. We are fighting evil to promote the good.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Then why don’t you leave police officers for having their favorite Bible verses while you know that Christianity created USA? They are doing good thing for everyone by reminding the Holy Scripture. Western atheists didn’t even read Romans 13:8; they just can’t stand seeing anything of Christianity. And stop copying people. Atheists always hijack good things and reduce them into hollowness. Christianity is good and life-giving and life-saving. Atheism is evil and it only destroys and the Post-christian secular Western culture is immoral. You guys need to repent of persecuting the Christians in the land of America. Today’s USA’s follies resemble the ancient Israel’s follies who rejected their Lord. John ch.10

          • MarkSebree

            “There’s not one shred of truth in your entire post.”
            Only one post? I would venture that there is not one shred of truth in any of her posts in any of the threads under this article.

          • MarkSebree

            You are mocking others, and you cannot seem to present any facts. You only present your subjective opinions and then claim that they are facts.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Secular Americans blaspheme against Christianity. You must stop doing the evil.

          • MarkSebree

            You just answered your own question by mocking atheists.

            And yes, people have died because they were atheists.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No one died for the sake of atheism, except for suicide. You guys only have ability to mock monotheism.

          • MarkSebree

            “No one died for the sake of atheism, except for suicide.”
            People have been killed because they are atheists. And those that have committed suicide have most likely been driven to it by the hatred, intolerance, and ostracism shown them by “good Christians” like you.

            “In atheism, filthy self is the object of worship”
            no, it is not. Atheists do not “worship” themselves. They do not worship anything by definitions.

            “That’s why atheism is not classified as a religion because everyone is selfish. ”
            No, it is not. Atheism is not classified as a religion because it is not a religion. Atheists do not worship anything. Each one of them is an individual, with their own morals, creed, viewpoints, and opinions.

            “You guys only have ability to mock monotheisms. ”
            Well, you deserve to be mocked. Atheists have the ability to see the world as it truly is. They do not have the blinders that people like you have. They are able to see the discrimination, intolerance, hatred, irrationality, and ignorance of those who want to force their beliefs onto others. Additionally, atheist often have the ability to question what they see and ask “why”, and the ability to discard “traditional answers” in favor of finding the truth. That is why a significant percentage of theoretical and research scientists are atheists and agnostics.

            “Psalm ch.14.”
            Irrelevant, except to further show your intolerance for others.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Humans do not die for the sake of disbelief in God. Atheists recant whatever their belief is just to save their skin; that’s why they concentrate on persecuting the religious people everywhere. Unbelief is not at all good reason to risk one’s own life anyway. It’s foolishness. They rather pretend to be religious and corrupt religion from within. They are worshippers of self – it’s their actual practice and it leads to despair in the matter of time. Western atheism’s creed is willful blasphemy, infanticide( manual population control), suicide, spreading sexual immorality, and serving self alone. Atheists are evil because they hate God’s truth and oppose good people for no reason, while they themselves have only nothingness to believe in. Psalm ch.14 is the truth. The West never suffered atheism’s reign and that’s why the Westerners are naive on atheism, but the Western atheists’ true colors are showing. Atheists do not differ in disrespecting God and human life all over the world.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            Most of us have common sense. Secularism is the rule. Separate church from state. We have freedom of religion.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Separation of Church and state is separation of conscience and man today. Secularism is absense of morality. USA needs Christianity for liberty.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            You are acting silly. Separation of church and state means that government does not interfere in the churches business and the church does not interfere in government business.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Western authorities including American ones have no moral standard apart from the Church. Church and state cannot be separated in a chaotic Post-christian world. It is too suicidal.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            From what I can see Pseudo Christians mock other faiths and are teaching hate not love.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Secularists keep talking about love so that they can continue their immorality. God is holy and sovereign. He will destroy the modern Sodom. (Jude ch.1) Telling the truth is true love.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            No it is not. It can make you feel better but hurt others. THe biggest thing we need to do is care. Treat others as you want to be treated even if they are not CHristians.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Unrepentant humans get hurt by merely hearing the truth. True Christians do not appease the Sodomites because that’s the opposite of caring. Everyone needs the life-saving calls for repentance and the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the facts of upcoming Divine judgment. (Matthew ch.5-7) Care must accompany the truth to be helpful.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            With each reply you sound more and more brainwashed. Christians are supposed to lovenot hate or judge.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Telling the truth is the act of love. Atheists hate the truth; it’s a fact. Christians are commanded to judge justly by the Lord Jesus. Read all of the Holy Scripture. You’ve been taught the deadly humanism, not Christianity.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            Telling the truth to hurt someone is not good. We are taught to judge not lest you be judged.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            That’s on petty personal matters, not on serious moral matters like today’s Sodomic West’s atrocities. Jesus told us to judge correctly. Read the rest of the chapter and rest of the Book. If Western Sodom is left alone, global children would get hurt. Today’s Western culture’s immorality is a child-abuse. Jesus cursed child-abusers. America must hear God’s truth whether they like it or not.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            No we were told not to judge something most Christians don’t seem to get.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Sodomic West hurts the world especially the global children by prohibiting morality. Secular West became like Sodom because they misapplied the phrase “Do not judge.” It doesn’t mean to be immoral or stupid.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You don’t sound as bad as your friends here, but you need to repent of your unbelief to get saved.

          • Jalapeno

            Which is it? Mockery or blasphemy?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Why do you care which when you have no interest in knowing the truth? Be serious about life, Jalapeno.

          • Jalapeno

            You said that mockery needed be outlawed, but then you said that we needed to outlaw blasphemy.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            People must differenciate fact-telling and mockeries done for mockery’s sake regarding blasphemy. Western atheists blaspheme too much.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            You are one of the hate mongers against LGBT people. You are one of the biggest problems in the world. Christianity preaches love, Love thy neighbor, Do unto others as you would want done to you. DO you prescribe to any of these religious sayings.

          • Slidellman4life

            Hon, don’t talk about Christianity if you know nothing about it.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            I know what Christianity is. It is supposed to be about love not hate. There have been a lot of atrocities committed in the name of Christianity and don’t call me hon you don’t know me.

          • Charles

            It doesn’t apply to those who willingly sin. Or call evil good.

          • MarkSebree

            Prove that homosexuality is a sin according to their beliefs. Your beliefs are not applicable since nobody is beholden to them except you.

            If you try to claim that others of beholden to your beliefs, then they can claim that you are beholden to theirs. That is called “equal rights”. And thus, they can claim that you are willingly sinning according to their beliefs and this are evil.

          • Charles

            I don’t care what you or anyone else thinks what good and evil are.. I care what Jesus Christ has to say on the matter.. He says Homosexuality is a sin..So I don’t care what you call “Good” or “Evil”.. It’s God’s standard I concern myself with.

          • MarkSebree

            “I don’t care what you or anyone else thinks what good and evil are.”
            Obviously. You only care what your personal opinions are, no matter how you externalize them.

            ” I care what Jesus Christ has to say on the matter.”
            Which was nothing. Don’t confuse Paul with Jesus.

            “He says Homosexuality is a sin.”
            Where? Chapter and verse in Luke, Mark, Matthew, or John, since those are the only places where “Jesus’s words” can actually be found.

            Besides, that is your opinion according to your beliefs. You cannot apply your beliefs anyone else, and you cannot make them subject to your beliefs. You cannot dictate what is a sin to them.

            “So I don’t care what you call “Good” or “Evil”.”
            You have made it clear than you only care about your personal opinion, and you have no problem practicing prejudice and discrimination, as well as desiring to deny others their rights based on your beliefs.

            “It’s God’s standard I concern myself with.”
            As I said, you only care about your personal opinion and your personal standard. Trying to externalize your opinion to give it more weight and to keep others from questioning it does not work with me. The ploy is obvious and transparent. You cannot defend your position, so you retreat and try to hold up a paper shield that cannot stand against reality.

          • Charles

            “”I don’t care what you or anyone else thinks what good and evil are.”
            Obviously. You only care what your personal opinions are, no matter how you externalize them.

            ” I care what Jesus Christ has to say on the matter.”
            Which was nothing. Don’t confuse Paul with Jesus””

            I’m afraid you are confused:

            2Ti 3:16-17 KJV
            (16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
            (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

            “He says Homosexuality is a sin.”
            Where? Chapter and verse in Luke, Mark, Matthew, or John, since those are the only places where “Jesus’s words” can actually be found.

            See Above.

            “”So I don’t care what you call “Good” or “Evil”.”
            You have made it clear than you only care about your personal opinion, and you have no problem practicing prejudice and discrimination, as well as desiring to deny others their rights based on your beliefs.””

            Not so.. I do care about opinions.. We just don’t agree.. That’s ok.. We don’t have to.

            “”It’s God’s standard I concern myself with.”
            As I said, you only care about your personal opinion and your personal standard. Trying to externalize your opinion to give it more weight and to keep others from questioning it does not work with me. The ploy is obvious and transparent. You cannot defend your position, so you retreat and try to hold up a paper shield that cannot stand against reality.””

            I can and will stand on God’s Word thank you very much..They are God’s Laws.. I would suggest talking with him about the matter.. He always has time to listen.

          • MarkSebree

            “I’m afraid you are confused:

            2Ti 3:16-17 KJV”

            Which is not from the 4 books of the Bible which contain Jesus’s words. That was someone else. You specifically stated that you “care what Jesus said on the matter”.

            Unlike you, I am not confused at all. I deal with reality, not a self-contradicting mythology.

            “”He says Homosexuality is a sin.”

            Where? Chapter and verse in Luke, Mark, Matthew, or John, since those are the only places where “Jesus’s words” can actually be found.

            See Above.”

            Sorry, but that is not a book that contains anything that Jesus supposedly said.

            “I can and will stand on God’s Word thank you very much.”
            “God’s Word”, which was written by men, to control men.

            “They are God’s Laws”
            No, they are men’s laws. The men who wrote it just claimed it was from “god” to keep less intelligent and educated people from questioning it.

            “I would suggest talking with him about the matter.. He always has time to listen.”
            And what would talking to myself do, besides waste my time? I cannot talk to a figment of your imagination. Only you can talk to your imaginary friends. Unlike you, I own up to my opinions and claim them as my own. I do not try to externalize then in order to keep them from being questioned. Which is why I question your opinions, and I point out that they are actually your personal opinions no matter how much you claim that they came from somewhere else.

            And before you try to claim that your deity is “real”, know that the first thing that I will do is demand objective evidence of your assertion.

          • Charles

            No, I would say you are:

            Read the verse.. All scripture is inspired or “Breathed” by God.. That means they are God’s Words written through men. But the Lord actually does much more than that.. He’ll actually write them on your heart. He’ll take away the things that torment you. But since you don’t believe that anyway.. Does it matter?

            “”Where? Chapter and verse in Luke, Mark, Matthew, or John, since those are the only places where “Jesus’s words” can actually be found.””

            See Above and following verses….Jesus was God in the flesh, he’s been here since forever..

            Joh 10:26-30 KJV
            (26) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
            (27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
            (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
            (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
            (30) I and my Father are one.

            It’s also in the Old Testament..

            “which was written by men, to control men.”

            Mmmm.. Ok.. So you don’t believe God wrote it.. I’m always fascinated by the “Control” thing. Not sure where that comes from. Still trying to figure out why you would waste time on something you don’t believe….

            “”No, they are men’s laws. The men who wrote it just claimed it was from “god” to keep less intelligent and educated people from questioning it.””

            Ahhh.. The old “Intelligence” insult.. Got it. Which is ironic considering some of the most intelligent people have believed in God..

            “”And what would talking to myself do, besides waste my time? I cannot talk to a figment of your imagination. Only you can talk to your imaginary friends. Unlike you, I own up to my opinions and claim them as my own. I do not try to externalize then in order to keep them from being questioned. Which is why I question your opinions, and I point out that they are actually your personal opinions no matter how much you claim that they came from somewhere else.””

            And before you try to claim that your deity is “real”, know that the first thing that I will do is demand objective evidence of your assertion.””

            Sorry.. I don’t have it on video tape (Which if even if I did you would call it fake anyway) ha ha.. But.. Wouldn’t really take any REAL faith would it? Maybe read about Abraham’s bosom below. That might explain things a bit better.

            Luk 16:19-31 MKJV
            (19) There was a certain rich man who was customarily clothed in purple and fine linen and making merry in luxury every day.
            (20) And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, who was laid at his gate, full of sores
            (21) and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. But even the dogs came and licked his sores.
            (22) And it happened that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom. The rich one also died and was buried.
            (23) And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
            (24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.
            (25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things. But now he is comforted and you are tormented.
            (26) And besides all this, there is a great chasm fixed between you and us; so that they desiring to pass from here to you cannot, nor can they pass over to us from there.
            (27) And he said, I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,
            (28) for I have five brothers, so that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
            (29) Abraham said to him, They have Moses and the Prophets, let them hear them.
            (30) And he said, No, father Abraham, but if one should go to them from the dead, they would repent.
            (31) And he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even though one rose from the dead.

            I would suggest opening first your heart, then open the Bible.. Just might change your life.

          • Slidellman4life

            You haven’t actually read the Bible, have you?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Judy said Christianity preaches “love thy neighbor” and “do unto others as you want done to you.” Are you saying it does NOT say those things?

          • namelessghost

            I have. It should be called the ungood book, that’s how bad it is.

          • Slidellman4life

            Thanks for your review. I give said review an F for lack of relevance.

          • namelessghost

            Consider the source.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            Yes I have many times.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            An observation that is totally stupid. What country do you live in? Christianity is not the only religion out there. You need to study religions of the world.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            I’m a Mongoloid. All other religions and ideologies produce mega human rights abuses. Pre-christian = illiteracy and barbarism. Post-christian = nudism and Sodomy. Christianity alone provides God’s truth, salvation, wholesome morality, and life. Secular Westerners have been too well-fed for the longest time thanks to their hard-working Christian forefathers and are being terribly bored for having no problem in the well-built Christendom. That’s why they attack Christianity the only good thing they have. It’s a typical course of rich people that have gone bad. Equating Christianity with anything else is futile because such equasion is not reality. You need to read the Holy Bible and study religion and history.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            That is your opinion. Those things existed pre-Christianity. Christianity is not the only good thing especially when it is used to judge others. There are good and bad people in every religion. To say Christianity is the only good thing is both arrogant and bigoted.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. All of Pre-christian is barbarism except for the case of Israel. You say the things you say because the only abuse you have to suffer in the Christendom was lack of voting rights and nothing serious. Americans are downright naive on the world because they grew up in the nicest Christendom and do not know the horror of complete darkness that comes from the absence of Christianity.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            When did Christians become a species? Christianity is not a species. Christianity is a belief system. It believes in Jesus Christ and his teachings. Most of his teaching are about love and tolerance. I was not spoiled nor did I suffer from a lack of voting rights. Most of the abuse that I suffered was because of men suppressing women and their rights. Of course, you don’t know me and just judge people blindly by your own beliefs, as I have told you before no one has the right to judge another except God himself.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Jesus taught holiness but secular West forces Sodomy in the world. Sodomy-supporting Western mainliners are not of Christianity. The Western women did not suffer anything from men in the world’s standard.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            You know it is more than Christians who are religious. Muslims and Jewish are religious, too. SO are many other religions. Others besides religious people are also suffering. Please quit speaking in generalities as if you know all people.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            Until you prove a god exists, blasphemy is a victimless crime.

            What about telling the truth about the Bible’s god ( as described in the Bible)? Is that blasphemy?

            According to the Bible, god is homophobic, misoygnistic, homicidal, genocidal, capricious, not very bright, lies, punishes people for the sins of others, and is incompetent.

          • Slidellman4life

            And you are a stupid little troll.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            Everyone reading these posts can see that you offered up no argument or rebuttal of what I posted.

            All you have is name-calling. You lose.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            You need to stop making stupid statements. God is the Creator and does not make mistakes. Therefore, God made the Atheists and the Gays so they are not mistakes and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.

          • Slidellman4life

            No idea what you are talking about. Big shock. Next!

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            Why do you not understand? That is a Christian belief that God is infallible. So he does not make mistakes and he created the universe.

          • Slidellman4life

            He also created free will, which is what sin is: The choice to disobey or even deny the will of God, which is what homosexuality and atheism is.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Blasphemy should be outlawed? Sorry, that’s not going to happen. You see, we have a little thing in the Constitution called the First Amendment….

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            US Constitution protects Christians to live out the Holy Bible fully. Founding Fathers never imagined that Americans would be this blasphemous and immoral. You guys are parasites in a Christendom. Atheists meant only those who don’t go to church and nothing more, to the makers of the US Constitution.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            The Constitution protects ALL citizens equally.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            US Constitution never supports immorality or falsehood. Same-sex “marriage” is not marriage and all individuals are born with the Creator’s assigned gender; therefore no one should be forced to serve immorality and falsehood. The civilization is wrong if it goes against the Word of God. Today’s Western culture is seeking some warped amusement by trying to break the Christians. Children always suffer the most as the result.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            What do same-sex marriage and gender have to do with this story, or anything I’ve been saying here? People are not born with a gender, by the way, that’s sex. The two are not the same thing.

            Same sex marriage is not marriage? You’re free to think that, but according to the United States government, it is. You need to realize, we have religious freedom here. That doesn’t just mean, freedom for Christians, that means freedom for ALL religions, or for those of no religion. You apparently think that’s not the way it should be, but that’s the way it IS. “Trying to break the Christians” you say…..if someone is going to be “broken” by having to co-exist with people of different religions or people of the same religion that have different ideas of what it should be, then maybe those other people aren’t the problem….

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Sodomic Western secularism is trying to ban the Christian conscience, if not the Holy Bible or the religion itself. Biblical Christians are the new black slaves in the Western nations. You guys are never sorry for bullying but just seeking new victim groups this century out of having a full-stomach and boredom. Sin is slavery. The West has no human rights or liberty or morality or even sanity apart from the Judeo-Christian values. The Christian Westerners of yesteryears wasted their efforts because their descendants corrupted themselves into sexual depravity and are bullying poor nations to become mentally ill like their own Sodom. May God intervene.

          • namelessghost

            You have no idea what the Founding Fathers imagined.They certainly weren’t as myopic as you.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You never read the Holy Bible and the writings of the Founding Fathers. I did. They are the real Americans because they were Christian-educated and respected Christianity as all men should. They got all the noble ideas from the Holy Bible. You secular guys are Non-American, and that’s why God is giving America to foreigners. Bad descendants do not inherit anything. You must repent of your unbelief. God gives the land to whomever He chooses, though men are just grass and flowers. Fear God and live. (Isaiah ch. 40, John ch.3)

          • namelessghost

            Actually, I have read the Bible. That’s how I know it’s not the source of our laws or morals.

            I’ve also read some of the writings of our Founding Fathers, though not all of them, of course, and I’m fairly certain that neither have you.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, you didn’t read the Holy Bible. The reason USA’s authorities are called ministers and public servants is because of what the Holy Bible teaches, to just to start with. Founding Fathers were in tune with Christianity, but not today’s secular Americans. Today’s secular Americans sound like coming from some outer space to destroy the nation by blasphemy and infanticide and immorality.

          • namelessghost

            Yes, I did read the Bible. From cover to cover. I even went to a private Christian school for 6 years.

            I’d bet my last dollar that you haven’t read the Bible from cover to cover.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            So the Church gave you God’s truth and food and medicine and literacy as in the case of everywhere on Planet Earth. I just don’t understand why so many Westerners commit treason against the Church, the provider of every good thing for 2,000 years in the region of the Western nations. What went wrong with you guys? And why do you guys slander your own Christian ancestors who made you well-fed and were far better than you regarding morality? Not-remembering the content is same as not-reading it at all; you don’t remember a thing of the Holy Bible and therefore you did not read it. I read the entire Holy Bible several times and found out that the British and the Americans stole all the noble ideas exclusively from the Holy Bible. It is downright evil of any Americans to attack Christianity. You guys should at least leave the Christians alone in peace if you are human at all.

          • namelessghost

            No, the church didn’t give me food, medicine, literacy or truth. The church is not the provider of every good thing.

            You say we should leave Christians alone in peace, but you think you’re entitled to tell me how to live and to make judgements about my morality. What is wrong with you? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Then why were you sent to a Christian school for 6 years? Be thankful to the Christians who raised and fed you; that’s what I mean. Ingratitude is a sin. (Romans ch.1 and ch.12) You Westerners have no morality apart from Christianity; that’s why today’s West pushes abortion and abnormal sexuality upon the earth instead of truth and human rights and liberty. You need Christianity for the truth, salvation, virtues, and a good life. Yes, take out your mote. I’ve become a Christian years ago by repentance of my sins and faith in Jesus Christ. Read all of Matthew ch.5-7. “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark ch.16)

          • namelessghost

            “Then why were you sent to a Christian school for 6 years?”

            That’s really none of your business. Suffice it to say that it wasn’t to feed me or give me medicine, etc. And the “christians” who you think raised me? Not a christian any more.

            “Yes, take out your mote.”

            How could you possibly see the mote in my eye with the beam that is in yours?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, it is. They are my brothers and sisters and you slander them though you got life, water, food, education, and all other essential good things from the Christians exclusively. I got my beam removed when I repented of my sins and trusted in Jesus as my Saviour and Lord. Namelessghost, please read the Holy Bible again. Ask God to forgive you and help you to understand His Word. I’m sure your real name bears some real Biblical or Christian heroes’ names.

          • namelessghost

            No, it is not any of your business.

            ” …you got life, water, food, education, and all other essential good things from the Christians exclusively”

            I’ve never gotten anything exclusively from Christians. I don’t know why you think you know anything about my life. You don’t.

            And I don’t believe in your god so I won’t be asking for forgiveness.

            ” I’m sure your real name bears some real Biblical or Christian heroes’ names.”

            I’m sure you’re wrong.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, it is my business because today’s secular West persecutes the Christians by prohibiting the declaration of God’s truth. It was something nthinkable even last century. You grew up in a former Christendom and you attended a Christian school for many years. You and all your families have been sustained by the Christians both directly and indirectly. The Westerners of yesteryears worked hard so that their descendants would become proper Christians, not Sodomic bullies. The Church feeds everyone everywhere. It is utterly evil when a Westerner hates Christianity. You should ask God or forgiveness of your sins and unbelief to get saved; you are one of His creatures living in His world. Ingratitude is a sin. The West, the former Christendom, has become a perv largely because of ingratitude; it’s a typical pattern. (Romans ch.1) You don’t know the origins. Many Western names bear the Bible characters and Christian heroes. So sad to see what has become of your generation.

          • namelessghost

            No, my life is not your business.

            Asking a government official to remove a decal from a government vehicle is NOT persecution of Christians. We don’t prohibit Christians from practicing their religion.

            “You don’t know the origins. Many Western names bear the Bible characters and Christian heroes.”

            You don’t know my name.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            Christians are not a species So attacking the atheists is now not enough you are attacking the LGBT community. None of these people caused the problems we are having. It is a combination of hate and not trying to understand others that is causing the problems.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            You do not speak for ALL Christians. You do not know all Christians, just like you do not know all atheists, Jews, or Muslims. You are speaking out your butt.

          • Slidellman4life

            You don’t speak for any Christian.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            We need to care for other peoples feelings because it is the Christian way!

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It’s useless it does not please God. True Christians never appease the villains’ feelings. Care for what God thinks foremost. (Psalm ch.119)

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            God loves everyone even the sinners. It is hate the sin, love ther person.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            God destroys unrepentant sinners. God’s love calls sinners to repent and turn to Christ. (Revelation ch.20-22)

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            Then some Christians need to stop preaching hate against their fellow man.

          • fredoandme

            you’re frightened of death.

            it IS that simple.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            ? America is dying. You need Jesus for life. Read John ch.3.

          • fredoandme

            you’re dying. closer every day.

            i need the sun, the air, water and food for life. end of that story.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Jesus said, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.” (Matthew ch.4, John ch.11) “Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.” (Revelation ch.21-22)

          • fredoandme

            you have nothing to say, but you read some things in a book and you want to share them. why does god, THE god, ruler of fuck all, not use his/her/its own mouth to speak these words? i am not, nor does it seem i ever will be, short of some kind of god, at least one of them, ACTUALLY showing up, convinced to become some kind of fanatic people, even christians, avoid on the street because she won’t shut up about jesus?

            most of us have read books. you just read A book. it’s not even a good book. in comparison with something like anna karenina or catch-22.

            i’m an atheist. surprised? ummm…..and i strive to achieve various spiritual ideals. do unto others as you would have others do unto you. do whatever you will, but harm none.

            you’ve complicated it to the point of madness. it’s NOT that difficult.

            put down the book and relax.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are loving a falsehood, and the de-christianized secular West is forcing it upon the mankind this century. Atheism is evil and homosexuality is a sin and people must live by the gender given by God, all according to the Holy Bible, no matter what the sinners’ feelings are. The West has become worse than being merely feminized because it values emotions AGAINST truths and facts. Truth first. (Leviticus ch. 18-20, Psalm ch.14, John ch.3, Romans ch.1-8)

          • Jalapeno

            Sure sure.

            Did you expect to be protected from having your religion insulted? What exactly should these laws be? Anti-“mocking”?

            Do all religions get protected? Can you still insult atheism? Can you mock atheism? Satanism?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Protect the good. The problem of you is inability to differenciate good and evil. Atheists and Satanists need education to stop doing evil.

          • Jalapeno

            So..you want YOUR religion to be protected from insult, but not other peoples religions?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Christianity is altogether good and needs to be protected. Atheists’ blasphemies and Satanism’s mimickings – No. They both violate the Good(Christianity). People must not hurt the good. A common sense and the true rule of the law. Non-christians should be just grateful for accommodation in all the former British colonies. Atheists only created dystopia and got dissolved.

          • Jalapeno

            So..what should the law say?

            “People must not speak against the good religions but that won’t apply to the religions that aren’t okay”?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            All religions and ideologies other than Christianity contain some barbarism or some evil – a type of evil that violates the plain truth and science’s recommendations, sane morality, human rights, equality, liberty, and fairness. Those Non-christian ideologies all produce massive number of innocent victims one way or another. Those abuses need to get fixed by the Church as usual, and then peaceful and civilized co-existence of everyone is possible. Post-christian Westerners have no noble belief whatsoever. They just want to watch religious people suffer and that’s why they rant freedom and mock morality and Christian religion. They don’t touch Islam because the Westerners are scared of the Muslims. The Westerners love Eastern spirituality because it does not clearly condemn sins and it matches with their selfish living. Secular Westerners only bully the gentle Christians in the land because they know Christians never retaliate. Secular Westerners = bad descendants of the Christian West.

          • Jalapeno

            Yes yes, your religion good everyone else’s bad.

            What should the law say?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Raw men are totally depraved sinners. The law should limit everything other than Christianity for everyone to be happy and safe. Nations and laws are evil when they make Biblical Christians unhappy. It means the society contains some types of barbarism or Sodomy or both and is producing innocent victims. Americvans are naive because they grew up with Christianity. Men are evil.

          • Jalapeno

            Okay..so you want to live in a theocracy where your own feelings get protected because you can’t deal with the protection of other religions?

            I’m pretty sure other countries are theocracies, but..I don’t think you’d like living there very much. Why would you want to take away other peoples freedoms?

            What version of Christianity gets protected? The one YOU like?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Other religions and ideologies violate human rights or have no clear guidelines for sinful men. They need a fixure. And secular Westerners must stop blaspheming and that’s all. They have no belief. They just do it to make religious people suffer, like mocking other people’s good parents to cause senseless grief among mankind. Blasphemy is the real hate crime. Dominion by all versions of Biblical Christianity is good. The Sodomy-supporting social clubs are atheism in disguise, not Christianity. Those social clubs deny the existence of humanity’s sin, and therefore they only deepens the troubles.

          • Jalapeno

            Cute. Incorrect, hilariously ignorant..but..cute.

            Why are you so okay with taking away other peoples rights? Are you that unable to deal with the fact that other ideals exist?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            All other ideals produce massive number of innocent victims especially the children. There is no exception. Judeo-Christian values are the only must for everyone’s life and human rights and safety. You secular Americans are naive and know nothing about the outside real world, always being well-fed by the nicest Church. That’s why you are bullying the Christians now out of boredom repaying the good with utter evil. Stop doing evil.

          • Jalapeno

            Boy you are ignorant.

            So.. You’re okay with taking away people’s rights because you think you know better than them?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It’s a fact. Study about the world. Christian America lacked no rights since the 70’s except for doing evil, that’s why secularists are demanding the rights to do evil now. A total waste of American liberty.

          • Jalapeno

            You’re trying to take away people’s rights to free speech.

            Why would you do that? You need your feelings protected?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Free speech is being used to bully the Christians; it’s wrong. Stop mimicking others. Atheists lack original ideas and the intention is only bad.

          • Jalapeno

            So.. You want free speech taken away because your feelings got hurt?

            Do you want to protect the feelings of Satanists too?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Christians do not mock anyone. Satanism is a heinous mockery of the Catholicism. You guys need Morality 101. God will judge Satanic Americans at the end anyway.

          • Jalapeno

            Do you want to protect the feelings of Satanists too?

            Will mocking them be against the law in your idealized situation? After all..you want YOUR feelings protected…

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Truth and feelings need to be protected. Secular Western culture protects feelings and mental illness and evil; that’s the problem. No Christianity = No good standard

          • Jalapeno

            So..you want to make sure we protect the feelings of the Satanists too?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Satanism is evil. Laws should limit them to protect children and people from them. Feeling is of no value here. People must be made submit to the truth. Did USA appease Nazi Germany?

          • Jalapeno

            I thought you said that feelings needed to be protected?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Truth and feelings. Read text correctly.

          • Jalapeno

            Yes..you used the word AND.

            So..you’re saying that your feelings DONT need to be protected?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You guys may want to protect the feelings of pedophiles and cannibals, too, at this rate by ignoring the truth. Please get some Christian education to be civilized.

          • Jalapeno

            You’re the one who wants to limit peoples speech.

            Are you going to want to limit it to protect the feelings of Satanists?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            People do evil in secrets and those hidden things cannot get judicial justice until Jesus returns( Revelation ch.20), but at least the public displays of Satanism must be abolished along with all forms of nudism and immorality. Secular West is the only ciilization that protects evil knowingly since it alone was a Christendom before. Seeking evil and seeking immorality and actively seeking mental illness is nothing of a religion but a pure evil. Religions promote good and not evil, unlike Satanism and atheism do. Evil people’s feeling get hurt by hearing God’s truth, but the life-saving truth must be proclaimed to all. Today’s West is terribly confused on the good and the bad by loss of Christianity and out of having everything for the longest time, and the same has been the case for all well-fed rich secular nations. All peoples including the Satanists need Jesus of Nazareth for salvation. No other name can save them.

          • Jalapeno

            Got it. You’re too sensitive and want the entire country to have to change for you.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The West MUST change. You must stop blaspheming God, funding infanticide, and forcing Sodomy. Mankind have rights to morality.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Freedom of speehes is just another tyranny if it has no intention of upholding the noble truth. It’s practically a freedom to bully the Christians in the secular West now. Shame on all of you.

          • Jalapeno

            Yes, people are free to mock you. That’s what freedom is.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You guys mock your own Christian parents and that’s why you have no peace. God is just.

          • Jalapeno

            I have peace, and I can even deal with crazy things like idiots telling me I’m evil.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You don’t. There is no peace for mankind who kill unwanted children and force Sodomy upon normal people. You need Christianity for the truth, salvation, joy, and peace. The Holy Bible tells that atheists are evil. A objective fact and observed reality. You need to repent of your sins to get saved.

          • Jalapeno

            Don’t worry. You can refuse to have oral sex all you want.

            And.. I can have it as much as I want.

          • namelessghost

            Grace Kim Kwon obviously wants to live in a place like Iraq or North Korea where there is no freedom of religion or speech, where dissenters are forced to conform or else. The opposite of America.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Every time I read her comments I go *facepalm* She really believes anything she writes, even when it makes no sense what so ever.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            Being thankful to god? Which one? So many gods ( and goddesses) to choose from, and all equally valid choices because they all have an equal amount of evidence for their existence.

          • Charles

            How do you hide the real one.. You provide a thousand of fakes.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            How do you prove there IS a real one?

          • Charles

            I don’t have to.. The evidence is all around you.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            …looks out the window. The world exists, so it looks like Odin exists, he made the world ( of course it could have been Zeus or Mbombo or Atum or Ptah or Neith or Unkulunkulu or Nanabozho or some other god or goddess…

          • Charles

            Well.. Maybe if they provided around 300 prophecies about the Lord Jesus Christ and his crucifixion, you would have a case. Like I said.. Lots of fakes.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “Maybe if they provided around 300 prophecies about the Lord Jesus Christ and his crucifixion,”

            Since it cannot be proven that Jesus even actually existed, any claims made about what he may have prophecied can be dismissed.

          • Charles

            The majority of Historians disagree with you on that.. Even Biblical Scholars who don’t believe in the Lord, or his Word wouldn’t make that claim. There’s several secular writings of Jesus and his miracles as well.. Not just the Bible.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            Name some of these historians.

            As for secular writings about his miracles, that proves nothing. There are many writings about Odin & Zeus, that doesn’t make the writings fact.

            What secular writings about Jesus and his miracles are written by an eyewitness to him & his miracles?

          • Charles

            The eyewitnesses are in the Bible.. Sorry.. I don’t have it on video.. But then it wouldn’t require faith if I did have it would it?

          • C_Alan_Nault

            Not only do we not know who the eyewitnesses in the Bible were, we don’t even know who wrote down the stories. There is no first-person account of any miracles by Jesus or of his crucifixion or of his resurrection.

            And you said “There’s several secular writings of Jesus and his miracles as well.. Not just the Bible.”. Now you are saying that these weren’t written by witnesses? That makes the writings useless as evidence for their veracity.

          • fredoandme

            irony meter on the fritz now.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            And if you didn’t do what the Christians said, they imprisoned you, tortured you, massacred you, burned you at the stake…

          • Charles

            The Catholic Religion isn’t True Christianity. So you’ll have to strike that one down. Besides, most of the people they killed were actual Christians who wished to read the Bible on their own.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            Your post is a perfect example of the “no true Scotsman” argument.

            The Catholic church ( like every other Christian church) says they are true Christians.

            There are over 30,000 denominations of Christianity, they can’t all be “true Christians”.

            Luckily for everyone who calls themself a Christian, they happen to be a member of the church that practices “true” Christianity.

          • Charles

            Real easy to tell.. Do they follow the Word? No? Not a Christian.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            Define “the Word”. And different translations of the Bible have differing passages… is there one translation that is recognized by all Christians as being the correct one?

          • Charles

            I don’t care who reads what.. The confusion of the Bible isn’t the translations.. That’s why some can read it and see, and others can’t. Though, some I would stay away from.. Namely the NIV.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            The confusion isn’t the translations?

            The Bible is full of contradictory passages, and both testaments condone slavery. Do you think slavery is moral or immoral? The Bible says it’s OK.

          • Charles

            Depends on how you define “Slavery”.. I mean.. Technically, if you live in a modern society you are a “Slave” to the system.. Everyone is a slave to some point. Slavery was a way for many to get work. A contract.. It’s not comparable to 19th Century slavery.. Which according to Historians was a unique brand.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “Depends on how you define “Slavery””

            I’m not talking about some metaphorical slavery, I am talking about the Bible’s version of slavery, owning human beings as property, property that you can beat to death without consequences as long as the slave doesn’t die from the beating for a day or two.

            Both testaments of the Bible condone slavery, the new testament also says that Christians can own slaves, even if the slave is also a Christian.

          • Charles

            Well.. I don’t know of any Christian (Or any) slave holders, in this country of the USA. I guess if you’re a slave holder in another country, and you treat your slave like garbage the Lord will deal with you.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “. I don’t know of any Christian (Or any) slave holders, in this country of the USA.”

            Me either, but why is that relevant? I didn’t claim there were any slaveholders in the US. My point is that both testaments of the Bible condone slavery, & the Bible says Christians can own people as slaves, even other Christians.

            “you treat your slave like garbage the Lord will deal with you”

            According to the Bible, god’s law regarding slaves is that if you beat them to death & they don’t die from their injuries for a day or two, there is no punishment.

          • Charles

            You are equating slavery to slavery as YOU know it. The American South. Again, it was unique. Yes property.. WORK.. So you could eat, and feed your family. Same thing you do today.. Also note:

            Exo 21:16 KJV
            (16) And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

            The “Slave” has to agree to a contract.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            In that instance maybe.

            But the Bible also says:

            However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

            A father can sell his daughter into slavery for life. (Exodus 21:7-11)

            When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)

            Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 )

            Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 )

            Both testaments of the Bible condone owning another person as property, and any children these slaves have while they are slaves are born as slaves.

          • Charles

            I’m not sure I get your point here other than there was Slavery (Broad term) going on in the Old and New Testament.. Doesn’t say anything about “Condoning” slavery in the New Testament at all. There was “Slavery” going on at that time.. You don’t think God protects his people? God put protections in there. If a master is unjust, and cruel, that doesn’t mean that God doesn’t punish him while still being alive. The problem is, many of the people didn’t follow the laws.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “I’m not sure I get your point here other than there was Slavery (Broad term) ”

            The passages I posted are about slavery- owning another person as property. They are not a broad term.

            “going on in the Old and New Testament.”

            Yes.

            ” Doesn’t say anything about “Condoning” slavery in the New Testament at all.”

            Apparently you don’t know what the word condone means. Here’s the dictionary definition:

            Condone:
            1. to disregard or overlook (something illegal, objectionable, or the like)
            2. to give tacit approval to

            Both testaments give tacit approval to owning other people as property, the old testament also says ( according to god’s laws) you can beat your slaves to death without consequences if the slave survives for a day or two, you can sell your daughter into slavery, and your slaves are your property & can be passed onto your children as inheritance.

            The Bible has god saying what can & can’t be eaten, what can & can’t be worn, how to trim your hair, how men are to trim their beards, not to wear clothing mad of more than one fabric, not to plant different crops right beside each other… BUT says nothing about slavery being wrong, or even about slavery being something you should try to avoid.

            If you don’t think that is condoning slavery ( passing down laws on owning slaves while saying nothing about slavery being bad) go right ahead… but you’ll be wrong.

            “There was “Slavery” going on at that time..”

            Why did you put the word slavery in quotes? I am talking about the Bible’s use of the word, owning people as property.

            “You don’t think God protects his people? ”

            What does that have to do with the Bible’s position on slavery? Both testaments condone slavery.

          • Charles

            Again your visions of slavery as whips and chains are obscured at best. The Levitical Laws were for the Israelites to establish the Nation, which they did.. New Testament is setup a bit different. I guess if that definition of condone works for you then go for it. However, God also allows sin to happen.. Does he condone it? No, but he allows it to happen.. It’s all part of the bigger picture.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “Again your visions of slavery as whips and chains are obscured at best.”

            So your view is that there’s nothing wrong or immoral with owning another human being as property, as long as you don’t mistreat them?

            “The Levitical Laws were for the Israelites to establish the Nation, which they did.”

            And that somehow makes it right? It’s OK to take foreigners as slaves because god didn’t say not to?

            “New Testament is setup a bit different.”

            It is owning people as property. Is that moral or not?

            Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 )

            ^^ the passage tells slaves to fear their masters, does that sound like a loving, mutually beneficial relationship to you?

            Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 )

            ^^^ Christians can own other Christians as property.

            In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong:

            The slave will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48)

          • Charles

            “And that somehow makes it right? It’s OK to take foreigners as slaves because god didn’t say not to?”

            If they followed God’s Laws it wouldn’t have been a problem. Were they being forced into Israel to become a slave? Or was it by choice?

            ^^ the passage tells slaves to fear their masters, does that sound like a loving, mutually beneficial relationship to you?

            Actually, it doesn’t tell me anything about the fleshly master, or that he’s a terror. It’s telling you respect your master as you respect Christ.

            It says:

            Eph 6:5 KJV
            (5) Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

            Again.. There was slavery going on.. Nothing about going out and picking up new ones.

            “In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong:

            The slave will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48)”

            Really?.. He’s talking about his people who are aware of him and do nothing preceding these verses. Keep it in context..

            “Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 )”

            Says Christians did own property (and/or People). Doesn’t say go grab a bunch of slaves for yourselves. By the way Christians are called slaves.. The Greek word is:

            δοῦλος
            doulos
            doo’-los
            From G1210; a slave (literally or figuratively, involuntarily or voluntarily; frequently therefore in a qualified sense of subjection or subserviency): – bond (-man), servant.

            Used around 150 times in the New Testament to describe a Christian.

            The difference when God is the Master, there is justice, peace, and salvation for his slaves. When man has that power, it ends up a usually as a repressive system used whether figurative or literal as whips and chains.

            I’m curious.. Are you an Atheist?

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “Were they being forced into Israel to become a slave? Or was it by choice?”

            If it’s a choice, it isn’t slavery.

            The passage about foreign slaves states:

            “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.”

            It says nothing about asking the slaves if they want to be your family’s property for the rest of their lives. And children born of slaves are born as slaves, they don’t get any choice.

            “There was slavery going on.. Nothing about going out and picking up new ones.”

            “you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.”

            Does it really matter if they buy new ones or not????

            Are you implying that it’s moral to own slaves as long as you don’t buy more????

            “Says Christians did own property (and/or People). Doesn’t say go grab a bunch of slaves for yourselves. ”

            It also doesn’t say slavery is wrong & should be avoided.

            It DOES say you can beat your slave to death without any consequences as long as the slave doesn’t die for a day or two.

            “a slave (literally or figuratively, involuntarily or voluntarily; frequently therefore in a qualified sense of subjection or subserviency): – bond (-man), servant.”

            I am not talking about metaphorical slavery , I am talking about owning another human being as property, and having any children born of slaves born as slaves for life.

            Both testaments of the Bible clearly condone slavery.

          • Charles

            Again.. God allows certain things to take place.. He allows sin to continue.. Does he condone sin? Of course not. You didn’t answer my question.. Are you an Atheist?

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “God allows certain things to take place.. He allows sin to continue.. Does he condone sin?”

            You are talking about something different. You say god allows sin but doesn’t condone sin… but nowhere in the Bible does it say slavery is a sin, so your points aren’t relevant.

            The Bible has god saying the following things are sins:
            – eating certain foods
            – working the Sabbath ( Saturday)
            – adultery
            – worshipping a different god
            – worshipping no god
            – sex before marriage ( if you are female)
            homosexuality
            – trimming your beard incorrectly
            – trimming your hair incorrectly
            – wearing clothing made of more than one type of material

            But nowhere does it say slavery is a sin, or even that slavery should be avoided. The fact that the Bible has god’s rules regarding keeping slaves, and the treatment of slaves means that ( according to the Bible) god condones slavery.

            As to whether or not I’m an atheist, what difference does that make? My points and arguments stand on their own merit whether I am an atheist or not.

          • Charles

            The Bible has god saying the following things are sins:
            – eating certain foods

            Not an issue in New Testament.

            Col 2:14-17 MKJV
            (14) blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.
            (15) Having stripped rulers and authorities, He made a show of them publicly, triumphing over them in it.
            (16) Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or in respect of a feast, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths.
            (17) For these are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.

            – working the Sabbath ( Saturday). No the Sabbath isn’t on a “Saturday”.. It’s a revolving day.. I used to think it was a Saturday to.. But that’s incorrect. The Hebrew calendar was based on 30 day calendar, so It’s not JUST on a Saturday. Still researching this.

            – adultery
            —————- ————Not allowed.

            – worshipping a different god –
            ———This is obvious.

            – worshipping no god
            ——— If you worship another God then same as above. In the case of an Atheist you are your own God.. So it still applies to the Above.

            – sex before marriage ( if you are female)
            ————– This is called fornication, and is not allowed for either male or female, doesn’t say male or female fornicators. It just says fornicators.

            homosexuality
            —————–Pointed out in Old and New Testaments as a sin.

            – trimming your beard incorrectly
            ——– This was for the Levite priest
            – trimming your hair incorrectly
            ——— Same Levite Priest.
            – wearing clothing made of more than one type of material
            ———- Same for Levite Priest.

            Many of these things were to setup the Nation of Israel to go out into all of the world. Which they did. There are no Hebrew temple sacrifices anymore. The Lord Jesus Christ paid that penalty..

            “”As to whether or not I’m an atheist, what difference does that make? My points and arguments stand on their own merit whether I am an atheist or not.””

            ———Touchy! ha ha.. Just asking! Just seems odd to me that you would spend time discussing something that doesn’t exist in your mind. Just curious.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “Not an issue in New Testament.”

            You completely missed the point of my message. The Bible has god giving out very precise rules(laws) on numerous trivial things but says nothing about slavery being wrong. Instead, god shows that he condones slavery by handing down his laws on buying & selling slaves & on how slaves are to be treated.

            And the new testament has Jesus saying the old laws are still in effect until heaven & Earth pass away, and cannot be changed on iota.

            Bottom line is both testaments condone slavery.

          • Charles

            “And the new testament has Jesus saying the old laws are still in effect until heaven & Earth pass away, and cannot be changed on iota.”

            Yet, there are no more temple sacrifices.. The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Jesus Christ was the sacrifice. You still don’t want to answer the question of why you try convincing people God doesn’t exist?

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “Yet, there are no more temple sacrifices.. The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD”

            Could be. But it does nothing to change the fact that the Bible has Jesus saying the old laws are in effect until heaven and Earth pass away, and cannot be changed one iota.

            It does nothing to change the fact that both testaments condone slavery.

            Why do you keep clumsily trying to change the topic?

            “You still don’t want to answer the question of why you try convincing people God doesn’t exist?”

            Why do you keep trying to clumsily change the topic?

            I haven’t said a word about whether god exists or not. I have been discussing what the Bible says about slavery.

            It says nothing about slavery being bad, and both testaments condone slavery.

          • Charles

            1Ti 1:5-11 MKJV
            (5) But the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and a good conscience, and faith unfeigned,
            (6) from which some, having swerved, have turned aside to foolish talking,
            (7) desiring to be teachers of the law, neither understanding what they say nor that which they affirm.
            (8) But we know that the law is good if a man uses it lawfully,
            (9) knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous one, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
            (10) for fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and anything else that is contrary to sound doctrine,
            (11) according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            Profess what you believe all you like, but don’t try to force others to believe as you believe.

            And as I stated, both testaments of the Bible condone owning people as property.

          • Charles

            I’ll keep that in mind the next time I try to “Force” someone to believe what I believe.. Haven’t done that.. But, I’ll keep that in mind.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “Like I said. You are a slave now.. So you should be used to it.”

            Like I said earlier, when I use the word slave I don’t mean some form of metaphorical slavery.

            I mean the slavery defined in the Bible:

            “You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.” …

            “When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.”.

          • Charles

            And still you haven’t written what you believe.. I wonder why?

          • C_Alan_Nault

            And again you try to change the subject… but I don’t wonder why, it’s because you have no counter argument to the points I raised.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “Atheism only committed mass murder. ”

            If you believe the Bible, the biggest mass murderer in history is god.

            As for your claim that “atheism committed mass murder”, point out a mass murder that was carried out in the name of atheism.

            “read the Holy Bible; wholesome morality and good values”

            Wholesome morality? Such as killing:
            – homosexuals
            – disobedient children
            – adulterers
            – women who weren’t virgins on their wedding night
            – people who worship a different god
            – people who worship no god
            – people who work the sabbath (
            by the way, the Sabbath day is Saturday)

            Good values? Such as:

            – forcing a rapist to marry his victim after paying her father 50 pieces of silver for spoiling her value
            – owning slaves ( both testaments condone slavery, the new testament says Christians can own other Christians as slaves)

            What about punishing people for sins committed by other people? Is that moral? According to the Bible, god does that regularly.

            Grace, can you even list the Bible’s ten commandments?

          • Charles

            “As for your claim that “atheism committed mass murder”, point out a mass murder that was carried out in the name of atheism.”..

            Russia, China for starters..

          • C_Alan_Nault

            Those were done in the name of Communism, not atheism.

            Communism is not atheism.

            Atheism is a position on a single question: does a god exist? The atheist position is that since no evidence for a god has been found, there is no reason to believe a god exists. It has no other tenets.

            Communism is a dogmatic belief system.

            Dogma: prescribed doctrine proclaimed as unquestionably true by a particular group.

            All dogmas ( communist, Nazi, religious) are a problem.

          • Charles

            I see.. So you can’t be an Atheist AND a Communist?? Hmmm.. First I’ve ever heard of that?

          • C_Alan_Nault

            First time you’ve ever heard that? Where did you hear it? I never said that.

            All communists MAY be atheists, but not all atheists are communists.

            Communism is NOT atheism, just as Republican ( or Democrat) is NOT Christianity.

            You are mistaking a political system ( communism) for a position on a single question.

          • Charles

            “All communists MAY be atheists, but not all atheists are communists”.

            Fair enough.. The problem still exist though.. You are morally bound to man’s laws.. Not the Lord Jesus Christ and his most Holy Laws.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            When it comes to some of man’s laws, an argument could be made that we are legally bound, not morally bound… some laws are immoral.

            As for Jesus ( assuming he existed) & the laws from the Bible you are correct. And many of the Bible’s “laws” are not moral.

          • Charles

            By your definition they may be immoral.. Which is fine.. Doesn’t make it so.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            So Atheism only committed mass murder. Have you heard of the Inquisition. Christians committed those atrocities.not atheists. If you are talking about the Old Testament most of the old testament, the kuran and torah read almost the same.

          • tatoo

            Yes, the bible. Where Lot,s daughters had sex with their father, where God killed everyone, even babies in a flood, where God tortures Job because he has a bet with the devil, where Jephthah has to kill his daughter because he told God he would, where Abraham gave his wife to another man because he was afraid he would be killed, and a whole lot of other place where God supports or does the killing of innocents. Morality? That book should be censored.

          • Oboehner

            “The choice of verse is particularly disturbing,” it stated. “Romans 13 begins by claiming, ‘there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.’ – Pretty thin skin.
            “This idea directly conflicts with the Constitution’s source of power: ‘We the people.’” Hardly, even the Declaration of Independence states: “…endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights”

          • Emery Pearson

            How irritating it must be for the Constitution to be the law of the land then, seeing it never even mentions a creator.

          • Oboehner

            How irritating it must be for the Constitution to be the law of the land then, seeing it never even mentions separation of church and state either.

          • namelessghost

            That’s probably much more irritating for you.

          • Oboehner

            Illuminating is more like it, demonstrating how the minority rules over the majority.

          • Guzzman

            The Declaration of Independence does mention a god, but it refers to “the Law of Nature and Nature’s God.” Thomas Jefferson stated, “I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature,” and “Christianity . . . (has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man.” Considering Jefferson’s opinion about Christianity, I doubt he was referring to the God of Christianity when he drafted the Declaration.

            When the Declaration mentions rights, it doesn’t state that the rights come from a god. Instead, the Declaration states, “that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men,” and power is derived “from the consent of the governed.” I think there is a stronger argument that our government is derived from “We the people”, not Christianity or a god.

          • Oboehner

            To which “particular” one was he referring?

          • Guzzman

            Jefferson’s reference to “Nature’s God” in the Declaration of Independence has nothing to do with Christianity. At the time, this phrase was plainly understood to be the deist god of Enlightenment philosophers such as Spinoza and Voltaire. Deism was popular in Revolutionary America, and Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, and other founding fathers were either deists or inspired by the movement. Deism imagines a hands-off god, a creator who, once the clock is built and wound up, leaves it to tick by itself according to the “laws of nature.”

            The role of this “Creator” is clarified in the Declaration:
            “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”

            In other words, this “Creator” has no role in government. The founders emphatically rejected divine sovereignty, or anything remotely resembling a “government under god.” God isn’t the foundation on which authority rests, it’s the consent of the governed. In any event, the Declaration had no legal bearing on the U.S. Constitution that came 12 years later. The god-free Constitution says “We the people” are the foundation on which authority rests, not Jesus or Yahweh or any other supernatural entity.

          • Oboehner

            “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” Doesn’t cover the inalienable rights endowed by their creator, or are you claiming the government created us – with our consent of course.
            Deism is also not forbidden by the same document, separation of church and state is not included, and as the Supreme Court of Florida said in 1950: “Different species of democracy have existed for more than 2,000 years, but democracy as we know it has never existed among the unchurched. A people unschooled about the sovereignty of God, the ten commandments and the ethics of Jesus, could never have evolved the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. There is not one solitary fundamental principle of our democratic policy that did not stem directly from the basic moral concepts as embodied in the Decalog and the ethics of Jesus . . . No one knew this better than the Founding Fathers.”

          • Guzzman

            You quoted dicta (nonbinding opinion) from a Florida Supreme Court decision, “There is not one solitary fundamental principle of our democratic policy that did not stem directly from the basic moral concepts as embodied in the Decalog and the ethics of Jesus . . . No one knew this better than the Founding Fathers.”

            Well, somebody is lying because Thomas Jefferson stated “I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature,” and “Christianity . . . (has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man.” And to imply that Christianity had anything to do with common law also goes against Jefferson’s own analysis of common law origins.

            Thomas Cooper put this very question to Jefferson who replied to Cooper on February 10, 1814. Jefferson’s letter summarized his historical and legal analysis of common law origins. Jefferson’s research showed that British common law was not influenced by Christianity in any direct manner. Thus, any claim that U.S. law was based on Christianity via influence from Britain is also highly suspicious. As Jefferson famously said, “Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.” At the end of that letter, Jefferson rejects the claim that the Ten Commandments were ever a part of the common law.

          • Oboehner

            “our particular” again which particular one was that exactly?

          • Ronald Carter

            Your holy book is no better than any other holy book in the eyes of the government. We separate church and state for the good of everyone.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. The Holy Bible is incomparably outstanding excellent among everything in the entire universe because it is the Word of God. Americans have forgotten the fact because they don’t read the Holy Bible anymore. Separation of Church and state never meant separation of conscience and man. America lost morality by losing Christianity. USA will be an empire of the past, but the Word of God is forever. Read Isaiah ch. 40 and John ch.3.

          • Ronald Carter

            You don’t have a monopoly on morality merely because you are a Christian. The most immoral people I’ve ever met were Christians.

          • Charles

            At least according to YOUR definition of morality.

          • Ronald Carter

            That is precisely the point. Morality is completely subjective and Amos sees it only from his own viewpoint. We all do, but I am not the one speaking on behalf of God or even of all Christians. He is.

          • Charles

            Not quite.. God’s Laws are absolute.. There is no “Subjective” morality in God’s World.. Now that doesn’t mean you can’t create your own.. Many do to some degree. The other problem is when morals become subjective, bad things can happen because the morals are defined by the “State”. An example would be the atrocities in the former Soviet Union where “God” or his Laws didn’t exist.

          • Ronald Carter

            None of us is able to state what perfect Godlike morality is, because we are not God and God is not knowable. Furthermore we can’t determine this from the Bible since everyone, including all 35 thousand-plus denominations of Christianity are unable to agree.

          • Charles

            “”Furthermore we can’t determine this from the Bible since everyone, including all 35 thousand-plus denominations of Christianity are unable to agree.””

            First.. There isn’t anywhere near 35,000 denominations.. That’s one of those lies that get repeated even though it’s ridiculously false.. It a bit more around 1,000.

            “”None of us is able to state what perfect Godlike morality is, because we are not God and God is not knowable.””

            I would suggest in your case, that’s certainly true.. For you, and many others God isn’t knowable, because you don’t recognize him.. God has told you everything you need to know in his Holy Bible. Take your hands of your ears, and you’ll hear.

            Joh 10:24-30 KJV
            (24) Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
            (25) Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
            (26) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
            (27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
            (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
            (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
            (30) I and my Father are one.

          • Ronald Carter

            “First.. There isn’t anywhere near 35,000 denominations.. That’s one of those lies that get repeated even though it’s ridiculously false.. It a bit more around 1,000.”

            Well, here’s a good place for you to start to know what you just said is demonstrably false. And don’t give me the usual line about “Well how trustworthy is it when it’s Wikipedia” – it’s LISTING the groups by name without even getting into their subdivisions.

            https://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

            “For you, and many others God isn’t knowable, because you don’t recognize him.. God has told you everything you need to know in his Holy Bible. Take your hands off your ears, and you’ll hear.”

            You’d be a lot more convincing in your argument if you Christians were more unified and not fighting so much amongst each other about who’s right and who’s wrong, and always getting into your ULTRA-annoying habit of telling each other that you’re not “true Christians” because you can’t agree about some niggling little point in how you understand some bit of scripture. Like that’s ever going to happen anyway with so many different Bible translations out there and all the mistranslations, retranslations, etc.

            If you want my advice, which I’m sure you don’t, you’d get yourselves together to make a coherent and unified voice, but no one’s ever going to take you seriously as long as you stay at war with each other.

          • Charles

            The way they count “Denominations” is a joke.. It’s around 1,000.

            “If you want my advice, which I’m sure you don’t, you’d get yourselves together to make a coherent and unified voice, but no one’s ever going to take you seriously as long as you stay at war with each other.”

            You must be confused? God’s people are together.. They follow the Bible.. Like the Lord says.. His sheep hear his voice, and we follow him. The whole Unity on this Earth won’t happen until the Lord returns. The rest of the World will unite.. But the faithful Christians won’t.. They will stand.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Judeo-Christian values must rule the world, or the society will suffer either barbarism or Sodomy or both and innocent victims will continue to suffer at the hands of villains; today’s amoral secular West is the grand proof. Christianity alone protects everyone and provides truth and rights and equality and liberty and justice to all. Nothing else can. Christians are moral because Christianity teaches the highest standard of morality and civility. The Western culture has become immoral and mentally ill because you guys have abandoned Christianity. Every culture needs rescue and fix by the Christian Church.

          • MarkSebree

            And that is a perfect example of why there is separation of church and state in this country. You are intolerant and you are coming across as rather hateful. You want to convert people by the sword, force them to kowtow to your personal beliefs.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Separation of Church and state never means separation of conscience and man. The Western world has no conscience apart from Christianity. What the Christians demand is no-blasphemy, religious freedom, and the life of the unwanted children to be protected, but you refuse even these minimum things. There is Judgment Day.

          • Oboehner

            Your mythical separation of church and state is nowhere to be found in the Constitution. YOUR “holy book” gets special treatment though, why is that?

          • Ronald Carter

            I have no holy book. Really looking forward to hearing which one you are talking about, though. Chances are I haven’t even read it.

            “Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”

            -Treaty of Tripoli, ratified unanimously by the senate

            What’s really beautiful about that quote is how totally it shuts down your ridiculous argument and at the same time shows that evolution cannot be considered a religion, your other tired old canard.

          • Oboehner

            Still mythical and still not the law of the land.

          • Ronald Carter

            Not mythical. Put up a nativity scene in your local public schoolyard and see how long it lasts. Denying reality doesn’t make it any less real.

          • Oboehner

            Still mythical and still not the law of the land.

          • Ronald Carter

            Reality is a tough one for you, eh?

          • Oboehner

            Nope, still mythical and still not the law of the land.

          • Ronald Carter

            How cute, you think you can just mix church with state and everyone will be OK with it.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It’s objective data. People who oppose the Holy Bible commit heinous evils; there hasn’t been a single exception in mankind’s history. Those who read the Holy Bible establish and promote truth, purity, human rights, freedom, equality, and justice for all. Read the Holy Bible and learn the history of Western civilization. American fathers would not have had any single noble idea if they had no Bible or Christian British thinkers. You know not a thing because you did not study the Origin.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          “I remember the days when the Western secularism seemed to be neutral. They simply avoided making comments on religion and things looked peaceful.”

          Great! So if the government would simply avoid making comments on religion, I’d be perfectly happy.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No government can govern properly if they avoid Christian religion or if they lack the Judeo-Christian values. Your Founding Fathers said so. Besides, the Christian religion created the USA for true Christians can be happy and make everyone civilized. Atheists only hijack nations and create dystopia on earth.

        • tatoo

          I remember when I was sent to the principal because my rabbi said I should not recite the Lord’s Prayer. Neutral? Not in 1959. I was not born a bully, I became one that day because of Christians.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You guys must stop hating Christianity. God will burn even Israel again if she keeps Sodomy for the love of the West’s filthy money. God protects Israel; Sodomites can protect nothing. Read II Peter ch.3, Jude ch.1. The West does mega evil by opposing the Holy Bible. You guys never learned anything for the last 500 years; that’s why you keep bullying.

          • MarkSebree

            Perhaps Christianity needs to give people reasons to stop hating it. You are certainly an argument why Christianity needs to be limited and buffered, as well as kept far away from the centers of government and the military. You would destroy the world to see everyone forced under the tyranny of your hateful beliefs.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, you are wrong. The desire to bully is in natural men and the unbelieving Westerners are singling out the Bible-believing Christians this century for bullying because they cannot bully the colored people for being colored. The West has no conscience or morality whatsoever apart from the Holy Bible and Christianity. It’s seen in their history over and over again. You guys need help; your inclination to sexual immorality this century is abnormal by any standard. And the West is pushing it upon the poor nations as if the world’s problems are not many enough. May God deal with the rich perv bullies as recorded in His Word. (Psalm ch.14)

        • namelessghost

          “Today, secularists oppress the Christians by actively blaspheming against Christianity…”

          Get a grip. Blaspheming against Christianity is not oppression of Christians.

          Christians have been on the attack for years, trying to deny other
          people’s rights and imposing their own beliefs on everyone else. They
          think everything should be their way, and when it’s not, they get mad
          and say they are being oppressed. This so-called “oppression” is
          merely the rest of society denying Christian favoritism.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Christianity brought the truth, charity, universal literacy, lawfulness, and civility into the world. You secular Westerners are being bored and want to do evil and that’s why you attack the Christian religion, your only sane conscience, and are disgracing all your forefathers. You are not being respected by immigrants and children because your culture dishonors God and your parents and is immoral. As long as you attack Christianity, your civilization has no truth and no hope.

          • namelessghost

            No, I’m not wrong. But I’m not surprised you think so, being one of the so-called “oppressed” yourself.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Why do you secular Americans behave like those villains whom your Christian fathers and Christian grandfathers had defeated in Asia and Europe last century? Shame on you. Stop harassing the Christians in the nations that were created for Christian happiness. You literally owe your life to Christianity. Study history. Secular USA will be gone tomorrow like any other foolish empires but the Word of God is forever. (Isaiah ch.40) The land belongs to God and evil Sodom inherits nothing. Secular USA is this: “Evil will never leave the house of one who pays back evil for good.” (Proverbs ch. 17) Wake up and stop bullying the Christians. You guys are being downright foolish. (Psalm ch.14)

          • namelessghost

            I don’t behave like a villain or harass Christians, and I certainly do not owe my life to Christianity.

            And just in case you didn’t already know… happiness is not the exclusive right of Christians.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Then tell your friends not to bully the Christians. When Christians are happy, everyone has the access to the truth, human rights, and liberty. When others are happy and Christians are sad, it means there are innocent victim groups to be rescued in the given society.

          • namelessghost

            My friends don’t bully Christians, either. It’s the Christians who are the real bullies in society. You even say as much in your next statement.

            Everyone has access to the truth, human rights and liberty, whether Christians are happy or not. That sort of arrogance, which is so typical of Christians, is one of the main reasons you are so disliked.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, they do. You guys are bullies against the Christians. When Christians are silenced, people blaspheme, freely kill unwanted children in wombs, conduct live human experiments, make people commit suicide, and force everyone bow to Sodomy. You Americans don’t know anything about the total darkness of Church’s absense because you’ve been always protected by the good Protestant Church. You dislike me because you only want to bully someone here in a Christian news site. And who cares about personal preferences anyway? If you are a man, don’t act like a girl by attacking people personally. Seek God’s truth instead of popularity by reading the Holy Bible as you should. Christian American fathers taught mankind to fight against the bullies whether it’s a popular thing to do or not.

          • namelessghost

            “If you are a man, don’t act like a girl by attacking people personally.”

            So, if I’m a girl then it’s ok for me to attack people personally? Do you think only girls attack people personally? In any case, I didn’t attack you personally, or otherwise. I said I don’t like Christian arrogance. If that bothers you, then don’t act like an arrogant Christian. Problem solved.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            If you are a girl, don’t care about popularity. You are loved as you are. Just dress properly for all time in the public. Never drink alcohol with boys. If you are a boy, cherish the right principles and keep them. Sodomites attack good principles so that they could spread immorality. Men are created for the glory of God and to keep the truth, not to exploit others.

          • namelessghost

            It doesn’t matter if I’m a man or a woman – I couIdn’t possibly care less about popularity.

    • C_Alan_Nault

      @ Grace Kim Kwon The new testament condones slavery and says Christians can own other Christians as slaves.

      Are you OK with slavery?

      The new testament says:

      Do not allow anyone into your house who is not a fellow believer. Do you follow that rule?

      Women are not permitted to teach or have authority over men. Do you follow that rule?

      Women are to learn in silence (from men) in all submissiveness. Do you follow that rule?

      Women are to be silent in church. If they have any questions, they are to ask their husbands at home. It is a shame for women to speak in church. Do you follow that rule?

      Divorce is wrong, and to remarry is to commit adultery. Do you believe that or is the Bible wrong?

    • C_Alan_Nault

      @ Grace Kim Kwon You said “USA should repent and return to their God, Jesus, “.

      Why don’t you pray that this happens? According to the Bible, Jesus said if you have even the smallest amount of faith then anything you ask for in prayer will be granted.

      Go ahead, pray that the USA repents and returns to Jesus. If the Bible is right, your prayer will be answered. Unless you have zero faith.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Jesus also told us to testify His truth to everyone. Liberty was established to declare God’s truth from the Holy Bible as it is. The probplem is you secularists bully and try to silence the Christians in America.

        • MarkSebree

          No, secularists and people of other religions are fighting back against the bullies like you that want to force everyone to live by your narrow-minded beliefs. They are holding the government accountable to the law and the Constitution, which is the supreme law of the USA, and overrides all religious law.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            US Constitution orders people’s free exercise of religion and the protection of all innocent human life( the unborns must not be killed because of inconvenience). The Founding Fathers never imagined any Americans to blaspheme so they simply omitted laws against blasphemies. The Western world’s lawfulness is based on the Holy Bible. Secularists are the law breakers.

        • C_Alan_Nault

          “Jesus also told us to testify His truth to everyone.”

          Prove this claim.

          ” Liberty was established to declare God’s truth from the Holy Bible as it is. ”

          Liberty???? The Bible ( both testaments) condone slavery.

          Prove the Bible is god’s truth. Step one would be to prove god exists. Go ahead.

          “The problem is you secularists bully and try to silence the Christians in America.”

          Are you ignorant or a liar? No one is silencing Christians, there are countless Christian TV programs, Christian radio shows, Christian billboards & bus ads.

          What is being stopped is illegal religious promotion ( all religions, not just Christianity) on government land, buildings, and vehicles.

    • Judy Zdzinnicki

      Not everything touted as Christian is good. The Westboro baptist church comes to mind as do other supposedly Christians who preach hate against others, whether they be Atheists, Muslims Shikks or anyone who believes something different from them. Radical Christians are no better than any other group.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        There are people who misuse the noble name. Bible-literate Christianity alone can bring the access to the truth, human rights, universal literacy, equality, freedom, justice, and safety to all. All other religions and ideologies are oppressive one way or another. The West has gone down by trying to equate Christianity with anything else because such attempt has been a falsehood.

        • Judy Zdzinnicki

          You do know that the old testament and the Koran and the Torah are the same?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Those are different. Today’s secular Westerners are too perv to comprehend the text of the Holy Bible. You guys need Christianity because that’s the only clean conscience you have. Christ-less secular Western culture promotes blasphemy, infanticide, suicide, nudism, and Sodomy. Worse, powerful secular West forces mankind to accept the depraved culture. Sin is slavery.

    • fredoandme

      does stupid burn as much as i imagine it does?

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        You guys must stop threatening the Christians in the land. Bullies’ blood is in you and only Jesus can save you. (Psalm ch.19)

        • fredoandme

          are you attempting to proselytize me with christian hoohaw?

          jesus is dead. has been for quite some time. dust to dust.

          you’re afraid of that dark void after your death. that’s all i need to know.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Jesus rose from the dead. He is alive and He is the Lord of all. I didn’t expect to be bullied by the Americans for having the Christian religion. Today’s unbelieving Americans behave very bad to religious people. Today’s USA is darkness.

          • fredoandme

            such hoohaw. you’ll believe anything.

            no one’s bullying you here. just feeling awfully sorry for your sorry ass.

    • hamfish

      Grace, you’re an idiot. No one listens to you.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Americans need the Word of God to be saved and live out the truth, as all others do. You must repent of your sin to get saved.

  • Ronald Carter

    The police serve the public, they must remain neutral on religion and spirituality. I don’t know why so many people struggle with this. If the Christian policeman wants to put it on the back of his own car as he drives home from his shift, that’s fine.

    • Becky

      Back it up with the written law. Point out exactly which law supports this claim.

    • Josey

      If the president wants to light up a house he owns with homosexual based colors celebrating sin, then he can do that but he has no right to light up the ppl’s house bought and paid for by the ppl and for the ppl to house the servant to the ppl. There are two standards being put forth and the one that celebrates sin is going to lose very soon. Christ Jesus is coming to judge all ungodliness and if you are not for Him then you are against Him and with the sword of the Spirit in His mouth which is the Word of God, He is going to cut down all this madness.

      • Ronald Carter

        Nice rant but irrelevant. The people who serve the public must also serve people of other faiths as well as people of no faith.

        • Jeremy Derby

          Ronald you say that the people who serve the public must also serve people of other faiths, as well as people of no faith, however you seem to only be in agreement when those people are serving anyone but Christians, and serve anyone who is part of a minority. Would it not be ok in your opinion for the president to deem a straight pride month, a white history month, a mans history month, to side with the life of the unborn?

          • Ronald Carter

            You are incorrect. If I saw a verse from the Qu’ran on the back of a police vehicle I would think it was equally inappropriate. You don’t have white history month and straight pride month because thankfully you don’t need them.

          • Jeremy Derby

            Oh so your saying that I don’t need them because its your opinion. Why can’t I have a white history month? Why can’t I have a straight pride month? Why can’t I have a men’s history month? I can easily say that other groups don’t need something because I disagree with it. What type of sticker or saying of any kind would say would be appropriate on a police vehicle or in any sort of government building or office?

          • tatoo

            Go ahead. Have a white pride month. Get a petition drive going, or whatever one does to start one. No one is stopping you. The government didn’t start St Patrick’s day, gay pride month, wonpmen’s history month, etc. Instead of whining, find out how they came about and do it.

          • Jeremy Derby

            My point wasn’t about wanting them, the point is that the government is enforcing beliefs such LGBT pride month. That is the government expressly supporting one belief over another. It is expressly supporting the religious beliefs and ideas of those that support LGBT ideas and activities, which is in direct contradiction with Ronald Carter’s points. If there is going to be a claim that the government can’t endorse certain beliefs, thus they cant support anything that is supported by any sort of belief. Thus the government cant support anything because everything is supported by at least one belief or another, thus leaving the government completely inability to operate if there is going to be such an idea as separation of Church and state that lines up with Ronald Carter’s view. The entire concept of separation of Church and state, was to protect the Church. It was to ensure that there would not be a Church of the United States like there is a Church of England. It was to protect the Church from the government, not to protect government from the Church. You all need to study the entire concept of these ideas.

          • tatoo

            The local governments allow parades with a permit. Parades like the St Patrick’s Day parade are allowed and often attended by officials. Same with gay pride parades and Columbus Day parades. Is it an enforcement of a belief? Should people become Irish or Italian or Gay according to the gov’t? Is it really a belief statement? I don’t think so. I do believe a bible quote is a religious statement since it comes from a religious book. I would also think so if a Hadith were written on a police car. A parade and such is not an endorsement of religion by the gov’t. A bible passage is.

          • Jeremy Derby

            Except at those same parades (since it was your example I am
            going with them) such as a gay pride parades they have been arresting peaceful
            Christians that were peacefully protesting gay pride with no violence
            whatsoever, yet they have been arrested, seems that the government is indeed
            supporting one belief over another. They were simply sharing God’s love and
            evangelizing to people at the parade, which there is not in violation of the
            law. Yet they get arrested… So please tell me how that is not showing the
            government supporting one belief over another?

          • MarkSebree

            Actually, I doubt those Christians are actually being “peaceful”. They are more likely shouting hatred, vitriol, intolerance, and tormenting persecution. They are likely being arrested for disturbing the peace and creating a nuisance, assuming that they did not engage in actual assault.

          • Jeremy Derby

            Wrong, I have seen plenty of evidence that shows that they are being completely peaceful the entire time. None of them engaged in any hatred or actual assault they were simply spreading the love of Christ and were arrested for it.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            Being LGBT is not a religion or belief. It is the way you are born. Educate yourself.

          • Slidellman4life

            That’s such bullhockey it won’t be entertained.

          • Jeremy Derby

            It is a combination of social and psychological disorders, educate, not a way someone is born, and does result in a belief. Educate yourself.

          • namelessghost

            It’s not a way someone is born? Are you heterosexual? If so, were you born that way, or did you decide at some point to become heterosexual?

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            Being Gay, trans or Bi is not a psychological disorder. Science has proven that you are born that way. It is not a disorder or illness.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            No it is not. People are born that way. They are not a mental health issue and this is not a social disorder. It is the way you are born.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            That is not true. They are born that way. I am well educated in psychology and physiology.

          • Judy Zdzinnicki

            I take issue with your statement. I have educated my self and IT is the way you are born.

          • namelessghost

            LGBT pride month doesn’t violate the separation of church and state because LGBT is not a religion.

          • Ronald Carter

            You don’t need them because straight people are not oppressed. Neither are white people. Neither are men. If you want a celebration for what everyone takes for granted you’re going to appear more like you’re in favor of gay people and non-whites being marginalized.

            How about having nothing on the back of a police vehicle except maybe 911? Isn’t that all that really matters?

          • Charles

            “You don’t need them because straight people are not oppressed. Neither are white people. ”

            That has to be one of the most ignorant statements I’ve ever read. White or “Straight” people weren’t oppressed in other kingdoms under rule? Huh? What are you talking about?

          • Ronald Carter

            PLEASE, that is such a crock. Tell me the last time you, as a white man, were made to feel inferior by blacks. Tell me the last time you, as a straight man, were ganged up on and ridiculed for being straight by homosexuals. Are white people pulling you over because you’re white? Are straight people mocking you for being straight? I don’t think so. If 95% of the population are straight please tell me what about being straight makes you feel like you need to band together with the other 95% to feel OK about yourself. Now imagine yourself as a gay man – you NEED that acceptance when you’re marginalized. I can’t believe how unfeeling you’re being. It’s shocking.

          • Charles

            ha. ha.. You ARE naive aren’t you?

            “”PLEASE, that is such a crock. Tell me the last time you, as a white man, were made to feel inferior by blacks.””

            Since, I don’t feel “Superior” to anyone I wouldn’t expect that treatment back would I.

            Funny, every time I tell someone this they never believe it because it doesn’t fit the narrative you’ve been brainwashed to believe.. Sorry it doesn’t fit your profile.. But guess what? It’s not quite what you think it is. I love how you profile people, shows me just how brainwashed you really are.

            “”Tell me the last time you, as a straight man, were ganged up on and ridiculed for being straight by homosexuals.””

            I remember being in a black part of town in Richmond, VA with my friend and being chased by a black gang simply for being “White”.. We would have been either killed or beaten silly because we were white. Close enough?

            “”Are white people pulling you over because you’re white?””

            If I don’t have a record, and I’m obeying the driving laws then what? I guess I’m not “White” enough. ha ha…

            “”I don’t think so.””

            Again.. You are being Naive.

          • Ronald Carter

            “Since, I don’t feel “Superior” to anyone I wouldn’t expect that treatment back would I.”

            Then you cannot imagine what it’s like being in a marginalized and openly maligned group, can you?

            It’s cute watching you pretend that because you’re mistaken for being poor white trash by other white people who pull you over or watch you in a store that you have the faintest inkling of what it’s like to be black or homosexual…how just the essence of what you are makes people openly hateful and disdainful of you.

            “We would have been either killed or beaten silly because we were white. Close enough?”

            Um, no. Not by a long shot. That’s in a very small area which isn’t typical of the bigger world we live in.

            “If I don’t have a record, and I’m obeying the driving laws then what?”

            Who knows why they pulled you over, maybe something about your appearance made them distrust you. It’s irrelevant to this – you don’t need a white pride or straight pride celebration, and you should be grateful that one isn’t required.

          • Charles

            “”It’s cute watching you pretend that because you’re mistaken for being poor white trash by other white people who pull you over or watch you in a store that you have the faintest inkling of what it’s like to be black or homosexual…””

            White trash?! I though I was “White” privilege? Someone said I was privileged because of my skin. What happened!???! So first, I’m a liar because it doesn’t fit the “Narrative”. Now you akin equate being born with dark skin color to being homosexual? Okey dokey…

            “”how just the essence of what you are makes people openly hateful and disdainful of you.””

            So does that mean minorities, and/or homosexuals are the “Essence” of who they are too?. No wonder you’re confused.

            “”Who knows why they pulled you over, maybe something about your appearance made them distrust you.””

            Why would they do that? My appearance? But that would mean it’s not just minorities being targeted or “Profiled” then? So maybe it’s a bigger audience than you initially suspected…

          • Ronald Carter

            “White trash?! I though I was “White” privilege?”

            You are. I said “being MISTAKEN for being poor white trash”. Try to keep up.

            “So does that mean minorities, and/or homosexuals are the “Essence” of who they are too?.”

            It
            means that you can no more do anything about the color of your skin
            than you can the sexuality you have. Both things comprise your essence
            and you should not be judged on them. But people are. So that’s why we
            give them Pride Days. Get it now? You don’t get a pride day because
            you don’t need one.

            “Why would they do that? My appearance?”

            I really don’t know, Charles. Maybe you really ARE a lousy driver.

          • Joe Soap

            Would you be happy with “Allah Ahkbar” slapped on police cars? a simple yes or no will do.

      • Jeremy Derby

        Actually the president does no own the Whitehouse, he simply lives and works in it.

        • getstryker

          Josey made it clear that Obama DOES NOT own the White House and he is NOT entitled to treat it in the manner he did . . . she pointed out that if he wanted to light up HIS HOME (one that he owns) – he is free to do so. You might read her comment more closely.

          • Jeremy Derby

            I apologize, there is much junk be wrote about in these comments I tend to just write a correction when I see something that is wrong.

          • fredoandme

            josey should be a better writer, then josey wouldn’t have to worry about others understanding what josey writes.

            perhaps it is josey who should read her comment more closely. then edit the crap out of it.

          • getstryker

            Interesting . . . I and others understood exactly what Josey wrote . . . she has NOTHING to ‘edit’ . . . her point is exactly correct whether you believe it or not.

          • fredoandme

            well. she knows her audience is unsophisticated. and more than a little dumb.

            her point is to dribble on about jesus. which she did, using the language of the pulpit. her secondary point is all about hating the president.

            and fear. she’s fearful. THAT’S obvious.

          • getstryker

            Hahaha . . . dribble??? – you would appear to have the corner on that market. I can see that you have nothing of consequence to say – therefore – – – we’re done!

          • fredoandme

            we’re done? you might be, but, then, you don’t speak for me, do you?

            none of you christianists have anything relevant or worthy to say. you just keep getting in the way.

      • Joe Soap

        Yeah, yeah. Any day now. How many times have I heard that? it’s been 2,000 years and two world wars already. I don’t think he’s coming.

      • fredoandme

        oh, brother. another one.

        still trying to frighten people with violence from on high.

        jesus isn’t coming back to do anything. god never does anything, but, over the years, those who believe in him have done some frightful things. how come god always needs men to carry out his evil deeds?

  • balloonknot9

    I am not siding with the reasons given by atheists at all, but that particular passage has no business being on a police car. They are not the dispensers of God’s judgement, nor the method ordained by God for His wrath. It is a boastful statement of self anointed power. If they wanted to place a bible reference it should have something about seeking God’s wisdom and just actions, about mercy and temperance. They seek not the righteousness of God in that reference, but are using God to justify their dominance over people. It was a haughty statement rather than humble.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    “For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the
    sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil” (Romans 13:4)

    • C_Alan_Nault

      Slavery is OK according to the Bible.

      However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. (Leviticus 25:44-45)

      You can sell your daughter into slavery. Exodus 21:7-11

      You can beat your slave to death with no consequences as long as they don’t die right away.

      When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)

      New testament view on slavery? It’s OK:

      Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 )

      Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 )

      • 201821208 :)

        gotquestions dot org/Bible-slavery dot html

        • axelbeingcivil

          That doesn’t actually say anything different. It says the Bible gives guidelines for proper enslavement, including generational slavery. Its only critique is that it’s not racial slavery as was practiced until about the end of the 19th century.

        • C_Alan_Nault

          No need to visit a web site, I can post the relevant Bible passages:

          However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

          When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-2 )

          Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 )

          Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 )

          • Josey

            If you haven’t noticed you are a slave even now to the government regardless of what color skin you have, you are a slave to satan if you don’t know Christ Jesus. Those that know Christ are truly free! John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “If you haven’t noticed you are a slave even now to the government ”

            I am not talking about some form of metaphorical slavery.

            I am talking about the Bible’s slavery, owning another human being as your property, property you can beat to death without consequence if the slave survives for a day or two, property that, if it has a baby, has given birth to a baby born as a slave for life.

  • Josey

    this is the problem, they shouldn’t have removed it, ppl need to stop giving in to these threats, there was absolutely nothing wrong with that decal.

    • Edward MacGuire

      Would you feel the same if the decal said ‘The Noble Quran, 23:3’?

      • Josey

        The name that is above every other name, the name of Jesus Christ can withstand anything put out there and besides they are holding a double standard, those that hate the gospel. They don’t expect repercussions if they don’t bake a cake celebrating a marriage between a man and woman with scripture on it or if the parade down the street in their pride parades doing ungodly things isn’t more offensive than that one scripture then the world is gone mad and that list could go on and on. I think if Elijah God’s prophet wasn’t afraid to stand up against 400 false prophets who worshipped baal and God defeated them, read the story about it, then no Child of God will be afraid of anything put up as a freedom of speech even if it goes against God and His word, they are already doing it anyway. Every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and very soon, all will bow.
        So, to answer you question about a decal that says whatever, I would pay no attention to it for I know the truth and it’s found in God’s word not in a book of quran confusion. And there is a difference between those who would do harm to those who they consider infidels, blowing ppl up, cutting their heads off, etc…than a police officer or officers who posts a scripture on a squad car and flying a rainbow flag that is ugly compared to the real colors of the rainbow God created on the ppl’s house on 1600 pennsylvania ave. in which as a president he should be neutral on such issues instead of promoting it. The only flag the ppl’s house should be flying is the American flag!!!

        • Steen Goddik

          The American flag flies for the US Constitution, which prohibits assigning religious emblems in the public domain

        • namelessghost

          “The name that is above every other name, the name of Jesus Christ can withstand anything put out there…”

          Except the removal of decals from police cars lol!

          Seriously, why do you all get so butthurt anytime you’re challenged? It makes it seem like you really don’t think the name of Jesus Christ can withstand anything put out there.

      • Bob Johnson

        Or decal that simply said;

        “idam dukkham”

    • MarkSebree

      Except that is creates the impression of one religion being favored by the government over others, and concern about unequal treatment of people of different religions under the law and by law enforcement.

      • Josey

        I could say the same of homosexuals, satanists, muslims, etc. who aren’t told to take down this or that and if you don’t like the scripture, move on, no one is forcing you to believe it, grow up!

        • MarkSebree

          I grew up long ago, and left such fantasies behind me.

          Homosexuality is not a religion, and thus is not comparable to any religion. Satanists and Muslims are supposed to have the same rights as Christians, even if many Christians do not recognize that fact. Nobody is trying to force anyone to become Satanist or Muslim in this country, nor are they trying to use the government to force their beliefs onto everyone else. In the USA, only Christians, usually far right wing evangelicals, fundamentalists, and dominionists are trying to do that. They want Christianity to have special privileges under the law and “by custom and tradition”. When Christians do try to attempt such things, people of other religions and no religion have the right to challenge such legal privileges under the law, and try to force Christians to play by the same rules as everyone else. When the Christians do appear to get a victory for their “special privileges”, then other religions have the right to claim the same privileges, making them no longer privileges.

        • Joe Soap

          How many muslim decals have you seen on police cars? Let me guess. NONE.

  • Josey

    Psalms 37:1-15 vs1(A Psalm of David.) Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity. 2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb. 3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed. 4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. 5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass. 6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday. 7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass. 8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. 9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. 10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. 11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. 12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth. 13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming. 14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation. 15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.

  • Slidellman4life

    I would tell the FFRF to go to hell, do not pass GO, do not collect $200, and go about my business.

    • axelbeingcivil

      Something you’re free to do as a private citizen. As a public official? Not so much.

  • Gena B

    Taking a verse reference off the back of a truck is not eliminating God or the wrath that is to come, but just heaping coal on those who are attacking Him.

  • Bill731

    For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

    ~ Romans 13:4 KJV

  • Chet

    Why do Christians always buckle at the knees only to then drop and roll over in he face of liberal and atheistic adversity? Suppose the giants of the faith used by God Almighty in his Word had done the same thing. Where would the faith be nowadays. ..

    • Joe Soap

      Nowhere, and we would all be better off.

      • Chet

        Hey Joe, I didn’t say when, I said why, as they do it all the time, afraid to take a stand due to whatever…

        • Joe Soap

          This is what you said. “Where would the faith be nowadays”

          I gave you my answer. I stand by it.

          • Chet

            Men in the Holy Bible did indeed take a stand without fear or favor, i.e., Daniel, Shadrach, Meschac and Abendigo, John Baptist, Peter, Paul, Stephen, among others… Then did not bend nor bow to succumb to PC dung…