Satanist Invocation Interrupted With Lord’s Prayer During Florida City Council Meeting

Suhor-compressedPENSACOLA, Fla. — A Satanic invocation was interrupted with a recitation of the Lord’s Prayer on Thursday night during a city hall meeting in Pensacola, Florida.

Hundreds had gathered both inside and outside of the city hall building in expectation of the invocation, which was delivered by David Suhor of the Satanic Temple. Some believe that Satanic Temple members are actually atheist and agnostics out to make a point.

While the prayers delivered during Pensacola city hall meetings are generally Christian, Suhor had requested to present his own invocation on behalf of the Satanic Temple and was permitted to proceed due to fear of a lawsuit.

He attended a meeting earlier this month where a number of residents expressed their opposition, and turned his back and began chanting as a council member delivered the day’s prayer. Suhor also held up a sign with Matthew 6:5-6 to assert that prayers are not to be prayed in public.

The Scriptures speak of not seeking to gain the applause of men by drawing attention to oneself in an ostentatious manner.

“And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward,” the verses read. “But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”

A woman two rows behind Suhor crafted another sign, citing Matthew 5:15, which reads, “Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.”

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On Thursday, Suhor wore a hooded black robe as he approached the podium, and was warned by City Council President Charles Bare, “If you deviate away from what I feel is proper invocation speech, I will have you removed from the chamber.”

He was surrounded by opposition as many began reciting the Lord’s Prayer to drown out the invocation.

Bare called the room to order and told those gathered that they must remain quiet or they would have to leave the room.

One man declared, “I would rather be in the room than let darkness sit here by itself.”

Several were escorted out, but others stayed and prayed to Jesus quietly with hands raised while Suhor delivered a loud song, belting out, “That which will not bend must break” and “That which is destroyed by truth should never be spared. Its demise, it is done. Hail Satan!”

During the meeting, one pastor warned the council that allowing Suhor to deliver the invocation was inviting curses on the people.

“If someone is not representing Jesus but representing Satan, and wants to invoke curses, that’s why you have such a representation of people coming based of the word of God,” he declared.

Suhor, who angrily smacked his notebook on the podium, acknowledged that he had a reason for the spectacle.

“Adopt some [expletive] rules. Stop pandering for votes. Quit pushing Christian privilege as we’ve seen with the Bayview cross and so many other issues and instead go to a moment of silence, that lets everybody pray or not according to their own conscience,” he said.


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  • Stephen W.

    How rude.

    • Jalapeno

      Yeah, interrupting people is pretty rude.

  • Ardy123

    So, Suhor’s point, as made at the bottom of the article, was really an attempt to stop any and all prayer at public meetings. Not surprising the devil doesn’t want to hear people praying to God; which often times includes Scripture. The truth always sheds light on the darkness.

    • james blue

      Well they tried to stop him so….. If we want our prayers to open public meetings we have to allow others to say their prayers and do so respectfully. If they decide to stop prayers so others cannot say theirs then the sole responsibility rests with the Christians who would rather have no prayers than allow others.

      • ElsaDominga

        Invoking the evil spirits is not prayer! It is invocations to darkness.

        • james blue

          And?

          • disqus_DOlL8appuA

            And what, she said it pretty clear. Why on earth do people want to invoke Satan when he will bring them to hell with him for ETERNITY. I don’t get it. Satan will never rule over God, never, but he will bring a lot of followers with him….to hell that is.

          • HardCorePress

            Agreed!! There is always a fool willing to spend an eternity in Hell just to shun others.

          • james blue

            Whether we share the beliefs of others or disagree isn’t the point, If we want our prayers to open public meetings we have to allow others to say their prayers and do so respectfully.

            Perhaps only Christians should have to pay taxes and abide by government laws, seeing as apparently only Christians should have the rights.

          • DoneDoneThat

            “Perhaps only Christians should have to pay taxes and abide by government laws, seeing as apparently only Christians should have the rights.”
            In that case perhaps only Christians should make government laws? I could go for an arrangement like that. I think we had a much better track record of success than the present legislators who ignore and defy God. Who gave you your rights and who is presently taking them away?

          • james blue

            If those laws only applied to Christians

          • DoneDoneThat

            There were only 3 of the 10 commandments written into our law. Don’t murder, don’t steal, don’t lie (under oath). Which of those do you have a problem with? It seems to me, when people like you started complaining that we stop teaching our children these hurtful tidbits of moral law, our society started to crumble.
            And you didn’t answer my question. Who gave you your rights?

          • james blue

            If our laws were based on the ten then wouldn’t all ten be laws? The first amendment explicitly prevents government from enforcing the other 7. The first amendment explicitly outlaws theocracy in the US. Nations that do not follow the bible have laws against murder, theft and perjury.

            I accept Christ as my savior, but I cannot force others to. I live by my faith, but I cannot force others to. The price for being able to live by my faith, to be able to worship my savior is that others are allowed to worship theirs.

          • DoneDoneThat

            I never said that James. I said only 3 of the 10 commandments were written into our law. You can’t have moral laws and attribute them to anyone but God. Without God there is no moral basis. Also, I never advocated a theocracy. I only said I would be ok if only christians made the laws. You are assuming the jump to theocracy. I like our representative government but it only works with a moral people.
            Who gave you your rights? Satan?

          • james blue

            If you cannot tell right from wrong without God it’s not faith or religion you lack, it’s empathy.

            Unless you think Christians would make unbiblical laws, if only Christians made laws wouldn’t that be a theocracy? Unless you think we should live in a theocracy why would you want Christian or any religious laws enforced by government?

            I’ve already answered your question.

            Who decides which rights God gave us? People who believe in God or people who don’t? We know what people who believe in God think, those who don’t would disagree.

          • DoneDoneThat

            James, I say again, without God, there is no basis for right and wrong. You said you were a Christian. Do you believe the man is basically good by his own nature?
            I don’t for a second think Christians should make unbiblical laws. I don’t have a problem with states making sodomy illegal and my vote would be to do so. I don’t have a problem voting to make Satanism illegal. I don’t have a problem limiting the right to vote to taxpayers. It’s the God haters that have a problem with those things and want to force their version of right and wrong on me. There is no moral law that justifies their position so why do you parrot it.
            I serve God James. I would think the book of James might be your favorite. You should read the part about being double minded.
            It’s the other side that wants me to live by and accept their immorality while telling me to shut up, but scream “theocracy” if I would dare want them to live by God’s moral law, or even worse, dare to pray in public. What makes me wrong and them right?
            The truth is every law is a moral law. All laws are meant to control a populace based on someone’s opinion of right or wrong. I prefer God’s opinion to yours or mine or anyone else’s.

            You can’t serve two masters James. It doesn’t work and never will. Jesus asked “why do you call me Lord and not do what I say”? It’s a question all who claim the name of Christ need to answer.

          • Jalapeno

            “James, I say again, without God, there is no basis for right and wrong. ”

            That is just blatantly untrue. What do you think people did before Christianity? Do you think that the Bible was the first moral code that existed?

          • james blue

            And I repeat If you cannot tell right from wrong without God it’s not faith or religion you lack, it’s empathy.

            So you DO want a theocracy. You want to use government to force people to live by your faith.

          • DoneDoneThat

            No James, I want what we had 200 years ago. It’s called freedom. It was called a representative government. Look it up.
            Apparently you are drinking the cool-aid and can’t see that the left is doing exactly what you claim I want. Apparently you think it’s OK for them to legislate immorality but not ok for me to want the opposite.
            This conversation has gotten pointless.
            May you get what you ask for.

          • james blue

            How can you say you want freedom if you want to outlaw consenting adults form engaging in homosexuality or satanism?

            Are you being forced to engage in homosexual acts? I haven’t

          • disqus_DOlL8appuA

            That is not how a Christian talks, but it is how evil talks.

          • james blue

            Then you should easily be able to counter it with logical argument instead of questioning motive or making accusations about how others talk.

            Note I have not once questioned your motives or accused you of not being a Christian. I’ve pointed out and you have confirmed that you want to force non Christians to live by our faith.

          • disqus_DOlL8appuA

            Ok whatever you say james. But once again, it is not how a Christian talks.

          • james blue

            Christians talk differently to other Christians. Christians hold different views to other Christians. If Christians only talk like you then there aren’t many Christians in the world.

          • disqus_DOlL8appuA

            Yes, unfortunately that is true.

          • Kevan Massey

            The exact same way you want to force Christians to live by your perverted faith. I will never accept homosexuality. If someone wants to live that life, fine. I refuse to call it good. You want to pass laws that make it OK for Christians to abandon their faith and moral principals or face fines. It’s not “hate” to not want to support a perverted life style by not baking a cake or supply flowers. But the true haters would have a law that takes away our religious freedom in favor of no religion at all. Even though it’s guaranteed in the Constitution. You are a hypocrite… What you espouse would take away the freedom we’ve had for hundreds of years just so a small percentage of the populace can feel good about themselves. No other reason…

          • james blue

            What “perverted faith” do I follow?

            What do I espouse that would take away religious freedom?

            I’ll save you some time.

            A self employed person should be able to do or refuse to do business with whomever they wish for whatever reason they wish. A self employed Christian photographer should be able to refuse to do gay weddings and a non Christian should be able to refuse goods, services, employment etc to Christians.

            On the other hand if A christian photographer is employed by a company that does cater gay weddings, he should do the gig or seek employment elsewhere. Employers should not be forced by law to make accommodations for our faith. It’s nice that employers do make accommodations, but they should be forced to by law.

            It is up to us to make the sacrifices in life in order to live by our faith, not have others make accommodations for us. If this means certain jobs are not suited to us, so be it.

            Religious freedom isn’t forcing others to accept our faith and make accommodations for our faith, that would be religious compulsion.

            If we want religious freedom we have to revoke laws that force others to accommodate us as well as the laws that force us to accommodate others.
            So are you ready to revoke those laws? Because if you are not then you are the hypocrite, not me

          • Kevan Massey

            If you are born again, just read the first chapter of Romans, then just try to justify your reasoning to God, not me…

          • james blue

            You didn’t answer the questions I asked.

          • Kevan Massey

            If and I reiterate if you are a Christian, why don’t you know the answer to the questions you posed to me? If you cannot read what I proposed you read, then you are your own God… The answers all all in Romans Chapter 1

          • james blue

            I asked- What “perverted faith” do I follow?

            What do I espouse that would take away religious freedom?

            You are obviously making insinuations against me, have the courage to say what they are.

          • Kevan Massey

            Whatever faith that says we should accept homosexuals and celebrate it. Calling evil good and good evil. Just because SCOTUS and POTUS says we should. Liberal judges saying we should and then taking that perverted stance and indoctrinating our children to grow up thinking it’s fine. That, sir, is perverting the faith of Christians, Jesus and God’s laws. It is also neutralizing those of us that want to actually live our faith in the freedom on which this country was founded

          • james blue

            I accept Christ as my savior, but I cannot force others to. I live by my
            faith, but I cannot force others to. The price for being able to live
            by my faith, to be able to worship my savior is that others are allowed
            to worship theirs.

            If that makes my faith “perverted”…..

            Religious freedom isn’t forcing others to follow my faith or forcing others to accommodate my faith.

          • Kevan Massey

            I don’t force anyone either. Quite the contrary, others want to force me and mine to follow their faith. Now that is perverted…

          • james blue

            Yet because I vocalize that you called my faith “perverted”. So might I suggest you take a look in the mirror.

          • lizk

            I agree with the statement, people who worship on Friday they should have that day as well as those who rather worship on God hold day the 7th day which is called the Sabbath (memorial for creation, for our God blessed it 3 ways) should be able to get that day as well as those who keep Sunday the 1st day. No one should get paid for the that day or any days they take of for Christmas, etc for for it is a burden

          • lizk

            There is a religious power that forces people to accept their day of worship over others and they have killed millions back in the dark ages and told people they could not have the bible. To follow God is way better but they hated Jesus because He showed us how to live, He had compassion for people.He healed the sick, yet the people loved darkness than light and they killed Him.

          • DoneDoneThat

            James, a theocracy is a government run by priests of a religion. Its people don’t get to vote. I want people who profess Christianity to vote what they profess. That’s all. My vote would be to return to a moral law based on God’s word and that does include laws against sexual perversions. If you claim to be a Christian, how can you support something God calls an abomination. I don’t agree that every form of perversion should be allowed or condoned. It only leads to greater perversions and ultimately chaos. The fact is, Christians are being forced to violate their conscience because of these chaotic laws. What about their rights? Freedom to practice your religion is in the bill of rights. Freedom to sleep with the same sex is not.
            Every law prevents someone from doing something they want to do. The couple in Oregon that lost their bakery because they didn’t want to participate in a perversion were prevented from practicing their faith in their own business. This kind of thing is happening all over our country and it because the so called 80% that say they are Christian don’t actually vote what they believe.
            You think people can be moral apart from God. I don’t. Read Romans 3:11-17. That is actually what we are and that is actually who is running this country.
            Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23
            Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
            Many will say to me on that day, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?”
            Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
            No one is forcing you to defy God in support of the world but you do so at your own peril.

          • DoneDoneThat

            Satanism isn’t freedom James, it’s bondage to self. I don’t want anyone to suffer that.
            I am being forced to accept homosexuality as a legitimate lifestyle. My grandkids have been forced to endure endoctrination in public schools and I’m being forced to pay the taxes that pay for that. People are being forced out of business because they disagree with it, people are loosing their jobs, being denied promotions, and being kicked out of the military because they openly share their faith which include verses about homosexuality. How can you call that freedom?

          • james blue

            You have a strange definition of freedom.

            All of the things you complain about are things you wish to impose on others.
            Homosexuals are losing their jobs for being homosexual, Homosexuals were being kicked out of the military. Homosexuals are forced to pay taxes.
            You are not being forced to play by any rules that others are not forced to play by.

          • Kevan Massey

            Perhaps they should move to an Arab country if they don’t like how they are sooo mistreated here…

          • james blue

            Why should they? This is their country too. Are you really trying to justify discrimination here by saying it’s worse in other places? I’m seeing Christians here complain that having to abide by the same laws as everyone else is discriminating against them.

          • Kevan Massey

            It’s like the old saying… The US is a terrible place to live… Except for everywhere else. The laws that are made that are anti constitution, should not be laws at all. I’ll obey Gods law before man’s law every day…

          • james blue

            How can you raise the constitution when your view of what should be allowed is unconstitutional?

          • Kevan Massey

            And what is my view??? Yours is hooray for what I believe and forget anyone else… It’s OK to play with young 2nd graders minds. And the sad part is that you’re serious.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Do you really care about what’s unconstitutional or not, though? You say you’ll follow God’s law over man’s law (which is what the Constitution is)

          • Kevan Massey

            The constitution is not in conflict with God’s laws. Most liberals think we should just trow it out though… No, it’s the laws that SCOTUS seems to think they have authority to make that really irk me…

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “The constitution is not in conflict with God’s laws”? I don’t know about that….three of the Ten Commandments violate the First Amendment, for one thing.

            And the Supreme Court does not make laws, but they do have the power to rule that laws that have been made are unconstitutional, and therefore are to be no longer enforced. (like, oh, I don’t know, let’s just throw a random example of a time they did exactly that out there…Obergefell, you might have heard of that one, I don’t know….)

          • Kevan Massey

            If the US were a theocracy it would be in conflict but we are not. The supreme court has and had no authority to make it legal for homosexuals to get married. Period. So what law were they upholding exactly???

            The United States Constitution’s First enumerated freedom under the Bill of Rights is freedom of religion.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “So what law were they upholding exactly???”

            That’s easy. The 14th Amendment.

          • DoneDoneThat

            Sorry for
            Such a late reply Mr. Blue. I’m not complaining about having to obey any laws, I’m complaining that our society has digressed to the point that these laws have been made. My position is that the standard for morality is God based on his law that never changes, and you advocate that the standard is man based on his law that can be changed. History proves me right. Rome didn’t fall in a day as they say but it did fall and its destruction was
            total. Our country is in the same free fall as Rome’s as we speak and for the same reasons. I can’t think of a society in known history that hasn’t fallen because of moral decay and yet mankind still thinks the same immorality that caused the societal falls in history is new and enlightened. There’s nothing new under the sun James. (Ecclesiastes)
            Just as those same societies blamed those that followed God till the very end of their existence, you and Mr Rut, and all those that hate God’s morality will blame us till your end.
            Can you not see the world you live in is in total chaos and on the verge of collaps?
            Seek God Mr. Blue. I will pray for your eyes to be opened as only God can do.

          • DoneDoneThat

            Thats right James. No matter who’s view you choose, somebody looses. It all boils down to the kind of society you want to live in. As a Christian, I believe God’s word is absolute truth and his law is beautiful. It is the way we should live so that we honor him and live holy lives.
            I totally understand your viewpoint also but it disagrees with Gods word and threfore a lie.
            I don’t know how old you are but I grew up in a time where my view of freedom was the norm. We didn’t lock our doors, we knew our nieghbors, didn’t have gang problems, didn’t have government programs as safety nets that have turned into a away of life. Nobody starved. There was much less homelessness. People worked and prospered and settled their disagreements without guns. That was before enlightened folks decided it would harm our kids to teach them about God in our schools. I do miss those days.
            This anything goes society you want, with your worldly justice doesn’t work. Our society has crumbled to the point of collapse in my short lifetime because of the very things you advocate but the blindness you have will not allow you to see it.
            The day is coming James when I will be jailed or killed simply because I follow Christ. That is in Thessolonians. I’m ok with that too because I understand that no one can serve God and be friends with the world. They are diametrically opposed. You are a double minded man James, unstable in all your ways. You want the benefits of belonging to Christ, but still want to keep your worldly views. It’s really not your fault in a way. No one can discern the word of God unless he has been born again. Merely saying a prayer of salvation does not mean one has been born again. That is another lie of the modern day. If you are truly born again, Jesus will be what is important, not your worldly justice.

          • james blue

            Apparently you grew up in the TV America, not the real one.

          • lizk

            you know it is sad, but God said that the only people that can not understand are the ones who are lost..in proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is knowledge; but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

          • TwoRutRoad

            The world you grew up in had all the same problems, and more. Today we have instant communication and a video recorder in our pocket, so the world can see the problems as they happen. We have safer travel, better medicine, and a better understanding of how the universe works. Religion gets none of the credit for these things, science and rational thinking does.

          • DoneDoneThat

            Apparently you didn’t grow up in that time and no we did not have the same problems although they were in their infancy.
            You speak from a position of superiority as if Christians are backwards and ignorant. It was Isaiah the declared the earth round long before we smart humans figured out it wasn’t flat. Science and Christianity are not incompatible and never have been. We just don’t accept theory as fact. You won’t find many scientists that disagree that the universe came into being abruptly at a specific time from nothing. Sounds like something or someone with a lot of power caused that to happen. We Christians and science agree on that point. Science doesn’t have a clue how it happened and can’t even produce a rational theory for it. Can you? Have you given any real thought to the problem?
            I totally agree that we, as humans have made great technological advances in the last 100+ years but we are still the same corrupt, selfish, prideful humans we were 6000 years ago.
            No advancement or enlightenment in that category.
            Have you read the Bible or are you one of those that condemn it out of ignorance of its contents? If you are the latter, most folks, as well as the Bible, would classify you as a fool.
            I highly recommend you read Ecclesiastes. There you will find that all of humanity is exactly as it’s always been.

          • TwoRutRoad

            I grew up in the 60s and 70s as a catholic. I did the whole confirmation, communion, confession thing, and eventually saw it for the scam it was. While I haven’t read the bible for 40 years, I do occasionally look through it. About a year ago, I decided to read the whole thing again, and I couldn’t even make it through genesis. I’m sorry to say, but if you think that stuff is true, you are the fool, not me.

            You don’t accept theory as fact? What about gravitational theory or germ theory?

            Science doesn’t have all the answers, but filling in the smaller and smaller gaps with “God did it” is not useful information. If that’s the way it played, then germ theory is wrong, and God is the one who makes us sick, not germs and viruses.

            Isaiah is from the old testament as I recall. Now THERE’S a terrible book.

            If humanity is exactly as it’s always been, then religion has been a 2000 year failure.

          • lizk

            everyone should have to pay taxes like 10% and no deductions and if you can afford a car, tv, etc should be able to pay taxes on them. It’s Christians that are forced to pay for a lot of things that I don’t want to pay for which are wrong. God does not make mistakes that’s what the devil wants you to believe. You are in bondage to sin.

          • doree10

            Save your children, get them out the public indoctrination centers…

          • lizk

            we are forced to accept it! and they made laws to accept it.

          • james blue

            We are no more forced to accept it than they are forced to accept us.

          • lizk

            everyone has the right to choose to live for God or not. Jesus said I am the way and there is no other way. He would rather people to choose life than death. God offers life and the devil offers death, for the devil will be destroyed and all who follow him. It’s a choice, God does not force but the devil will.

          • lizk

            God gives us freedom to choose to do good, the devil wants everyone to be slaves to sin. God created everything including man the devil wants to destroy man (because they are special, for they were created in the image of God)

          • disqus_DOlL8appuA

            Amen!

          • doree10

            “Don’t cast your pearls before swine.”

          • disqus_DOlL8appuA

            That’s only by law not God. And God is the one who we have to answer to in the end, not law. You either are with Christ or you are not. There is no half way. The Gospel does not say to worship false gods especially satan.

          • Kevan Massey

            And the Lord will say “away from me, I never knew you”.

          • Jan

            “Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather, REPROVE them. .”

          • lizk

            Jesus preached, lived His life to glorify the Father and did His Fathers will (kept the 10 commandments) We should follow the example that Jesus gave us. He never forced His will on others it’s a choice that we all must make, we know that the devil has a short time and all who follow him will be destroyed. So we don’t have to fear people.

          • Ronald Carter

            James, I am quickly becoming a fan of yours…

          • james blue

            Give it time. I come with a 30 day money back no questions asked guarantee, but only with a vailid receipt and you have to pay the return delivery yourself..

          • Ronald Carter

            I have been waiting a long time for a reasonable Christian to show up here and show the others how narrow they are being in their thinking.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “In that case perhaps only Christians should make government laws? I could go for an arrangement like that.”

            The vast overwhelming majority of this country’s lawmakers have been and in fact still are Christians. We pretty much have “an arrangement like that” already.

          • DoneDoneThat

            Sigh… No, you’re saying I’m saying that.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Ok, guess I misunderstood that somewhat…you said “in that case” meaning the hypothetical situation that someone mentioned where only Christians would pay taxes and so on. You still did say you could “go for” something like that, though. Or am I reading that wrong still?

          • ort

            “The vast overwhelming majority of this country’s lawmakers have been and in fact still are Christians.”
            No, no, and yet again, NO.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I think I see where we might be misunderstanding each other here. See, when I use the word “Christian” I mean “someone who identifies as a Christian,” not the definition often used around here, which seems to be something along the lines of “someone who identifies as Christian AND believes X, Y, and Z, so therefore is a TRUE Christian.”

          • ort

            Fair enough. I see what you’re saying.

          • DoneDoneThat

            King, I was responding to “perhaps only Christians should pay taxes”. If that were the case, then I would advocate that only Christians made the laws. I personally believe if you don’t have any skin in the game you shouldn’t be allowed a vote. Look at our present mess. Half of the country is getting assistance. I’m not oppose to assistance, although it used to be from the church, neighbors, family, etc… But being able to vote yourself more “free” money is not a privilege one should have when its not the fruits of your own labor.

          • colleenf

            But as sinners who have fallen short of the glory of God, many who call themselves Christian have made terrible mistakes as well.
            As one who strongly believes in our Lord and Risen Savior, we all need to pray, repent and forgive.

          • David Collins

            James Blue, perhaps you should stop breathing His air, drinking His water, and eating His food, if you don’t want to give Him thanks.

          • james blue

            Where did I say that?

          • David Collins

            Uh, your whole line of assertions, questions and comments is indicative of that. Otherwise, why do you want to encourage the God hater, and provoke the followers of Jesus Christ here?

          • james blue

            If we don’t protect the rights of others to speak we will lose our rights. Freedom of religion applies to everyone whether they follow our faith or not. Freedom of speech applies to everyone whether we agree with them or not.

            The biggest threat to freedom of religion is those who think only their religion should have a say.

          • David Collins

            The biggest threat to Christianity, which is the Only Way to God according to God Himself, is all other religions, which of course, are of Satan.

          • james blue

            The biggest threat to Christianity is Christians who make the faith unwelcoming.

          • Ronald Carter

            Standing on my chair APPLAUDING now!!

          • David Collins

            The ultimate biggest threat to Christianity is compromising professing Christians who don’t preach the gospel nor live it. People like you want a watered down Christianity practiced by luke warm people who are no threat to you and don’t tell you the truth. Christianity is not meant to be welcoming. It is meant to be proclaimed that Jesus is God and only by coming in submission to Him and repenting of our sins can one be saved. you dont like that because you like your sins and have no intention of repenting. You would rather go to hell.

          • james blue

            Hmm. The westborough church does just that. If you were not a Christian and they were the ones you met would you be converting?

            As a child I would attend my grandfather’s “church”. It was a bunch of chairs set up in the shade of a large tree in a field or in a barn if weather dictated. The preacher was a farmhand during the week and accepted no pay for the service, although he must have eaten well for the whole week on the leftovers from the food the women brought for the after service picnic (they seemed to be in competition with each other). The service was devoted entirely to praising and thanking God for our blessings.

            Go to church these days and it’s more like attending a party political rally. Pastors are no longer humble and I worry that too many are worshiping the church instead instead of worshiping in church.

            People like you are not interested in bringing people to the faith with love, you want to threaten them with damnation if they don’t comply. If you talk to people they will listen, if you shout at them they will cover their ears.

            My love and devotion to the lord remains unchanged no matter how people like yourself shout. I feel his love with me whether I sit next to a fellow believer in a church pew or next to a non believer on a park bench.

          • David Collins

            Interesting. Satan also plays both sides of the fence to deceive people.
            If you truly loved Jesus Christ and others, you would obey Him, and you would proclaim the Good News and warn people, instead of sitting on park benches or in Church pews with your mouth on silent. You would oppose evil instead of passively siting by as Evil assets itself. Good thing for us that Paul, Peter, and all the rest of the Apostles did not sit on benches and keep their mouths shut. Remember what Jesus said about the city on a hill.

          • james blue

            How do we know you are not playing Stans’s game?

          • David Collins

            That’s the question you should ask yourself. Are you playing satan’s game by being passive and worse, defending the devil?

          • james blue

            But I asked you.

          • David Collins

            Draw your own conclusions. By the way, why do you ask questions and receive answers you don’t like, but refuse to answer questions.

          • Oberon

            Who – or what – is a “God hater”?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I wish I could thumbs up this comment 1,000 times.

          • Ronald Carter

            A reasonable Christian at last, hey?

          • David Collins

            well, James Blue, if you cannot understand the danger of invoking evil spirits, you are in deep trouble. But, if you do, and still favor it, then get thee away Satan.

          • james blue

            Do only Christians get to speak? Do only Christians have rights? Do only Christians pay taxes?

          • David Collins

            James Blue. Would you agree that Satan is an evil spirit? Would you agree that it is extremely dangerous to invoke and glorify the evil spirit Satan, rather than the Creator God, Jesus the Christ, the maker of life, the maker of you? If so, why would you want to glorify the enemy of your soul, Satan under the guise of ‘free speech’?

          • james blue

            Your answer is in the comment you replied to.

          • David Collins

            Thanks for being evasive. Shall we call you Satan or do you prefer Lucifer or some other demonic name?

          • james blue

            Not evasive, it’s right there, you are choosing to not see.

          • David Collins

            oh, ok, I see. You simply like to argue.

      • disqus_DOlL8appuA

        How does one know that if the Christians spoke up, God could do his work? He surely will if we are diligent. Always stand up no matter what the cost.

        • james blue

          Please clarify. How do we know what if the Christians spoke up?

          • David Collins

            James Blue, can you clarify your question. As written it is incomprehensible.

          • Vash Stampede

            BECAUSE over 200 years ago our Founding Fathers of this ONCE GREAT NATION spoke up against British tyranny and though God Almighty’s help founded this nation, the United States of America. IN GOD we trust, the land of the free, home of the brave. Only when good men do nothing, does evil flourish in this land. That is how you know…

          • james blue

            The biggest threat to freedom of religion is those who think only their religion should have a say.

            What you are advocating is imposing our own tyranny on those who do not share our faith.

          • ort

            Do you want sharia law?? islam originated from satan himself. I do NOT want muslims to “have a say” in ANYTHING in this country. It is a violent, evil death cult and sharia enslaves women and all non muslims.
            Your argument is null.

          • james blue

            I don’t want ANY religious law to take over, that’s why the first amendment is so great, because it prevents that.

          • disqus_DOlL8appuA

            All TRUE Christians which are that they don’t believe in Satan as someone to pray to, but God the Father, Almighty who has made rules and we are to abide by them, to stand up and fight for the teachings of the bible, no matter what the cost.

        • ComeOnPeople!

          I think GOD would heal our land if we HIS people would humble ourselves & fall on our faces in prayer, turn from our wicked ways and seek HIS face. We can battle all day in the flesh and we should by all means use our voices but the true battle field is in the unseen and is won or lost only by those who call upon HIS name.

  • Michael C

    How incredibly disrespectful and, quite frankly, unAmerican of these Christians. Truly sad and childish behavior.

    • ZappaSaid88

      Yep, “religious freedom” to them is allowing any Christian to break whatever law they please. Other religions need not apply.

      • ElsaDominga

        You have no idea what you are playing with when it comes to the occult.

      • dan

        God said to pray for people like you, but i have a hard time praying for IMMORAL IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!

        • Jolanda Tiellemans

          Then don’t pray. Simple. i’m pretty sure they don’t need your prayers.

    • Slidellman4life

      So you worship Satan?

      • violetteal

        They worship themselves. They don’t believe in anything.

        • Slidellman4life

          I wasn’t asking you. If your name is not MichaelC, stay out of it.

          • violetteal

            I beg your pardon, but this is an open discussion. If you didn’t wish to be answered by another, you could have asked Michael C for a private chat, to discuss the subject. Show some some manners.

          • Slidellman4life

            I beg your pardon, but this is an open discussion.

            And I don’t give a buh.

            You have neither right nor authority to tell me I cannot ask someone a direct question.

            Unless you are Michael C’s sock puppet, you are to keep your mouth shut. Do you understand?

          • Jalapeno

            Not very polite of you.

    • TheBBP

      Really? Freedom of speech is VERY American. BLM, La Raza and groups like them have shown that the best way to exercise that freedom is to do their best to make sure that the folks that they don’t like are not heard. That is the way of the anti-Christian left. They have been practicing it for months now, complete with violence in an effort to stop Trump from speaking everywhere he goes.

      You have the freedom to speak, but nobody has to listen or sit there quietly while you do it.

      • james blue

        So you support people vocally drowning out Christian prayer opening meetings?

        • Lexical Cannibal

          I mean, that’s what I heard.

          *dusts off vuvuzela*

          • james blue

            Yes. We do have the right to speak, not the right to be heard, but we also have laws about disrupting meetings.

            That said this is a public government meeting and you do have the right to be heard by government.

          • Lexical Cannibal

            I…agree with you?

    • ElsaDominga

      Devil worship and the denouncing of devil worship is not un-American. Trying to invoke evil spirits and all that Satanists do is pure hate towards humanity as beings created,not made. Don’t mess with it.

  • ZappaSaid88

    “one pastor warned the council that allowing Suhor to deliver the invocation was inviting curses on the people.” – Wow, grow up little child.

    • ElsaDominga

      Satan is very cunning. Do not ever under estimate his desires.

  • Royal Rican Prince

    One of these days theose deluded men & women while be wishing they had never heard the words ‘religious freedom’. among others words!

  • Ockham

    Hahahahaha! Atheists respond favorably to Satanist. Hahahahaha. So much for not wanting religion! Hypocrites, all.

    • TheKingOfRhye

      It makes perfect sense, actually…especially when you consider the Satanic Temple is an atheist group themselves.

      • Ockham

        Nothing perfect about atheism. And it does make sense, as hypocrisy. They want the tax break, so they masquerade as a sort of PC “church”.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          Except they have never pursued tax-exempt status, and believe that all churches should be strictly taxed. Do a little research instead of making up stuff…

          • Ockham

            I understand that lying is an accepted tenet of Satanism, and here is the proof from a satanist website, the Satanist Chapel, of tax exemption.

            “Satanism is a religion/unreligion. Since we are one of the Satanic religions whose organized body ACCEPTS the tax exempt status………”

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I’ve never heard of The Satanist Chapel until now. It seems they’re something of a ‘splinter group’ from the original Church of Satan, that didn’t like some of the things the Church of Satan was doing. The quote from the Satanist Chapel’s website (including the parts you left out!) is “…since we are one of the first Satanic religions whose organized body ACCEPTS the tax exempt status unlike the Church of Satan…” Key words being “one of the first” and “unlike the Church of Satan.” I fail to see how you think that proves anything about other Satanic groups.

          • Ockham

            Funny. You said there was no proof that satanists were in it for the tax break. I provided proof, so, in true Saul Alinsky style, you attack me. Sorry, Rhye, but you are shown up as just another blind rabble rousing troll, devoid of conscience and without honor.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “You said there was no proof that satanists were in it for the tax break.”

            I never said that. The only thing you showed was that ONE particular group DOES take the tax break. That doesn’t say anything about other groups like The Satanic Temple, which is who we were talking about in the first place.

            “We do not seek tax exemption, and we strongly feel that churches and religious organizations should pay their taxes.” – Doug Mesner, spokesman for The Satanic Temple (www dailykos com/story/2014/08/01/1318369/-The-Satanic-Agenda-Politics-Religion-The-Satanic-Temple)

          • Ockham

            As I said in the beginning, Satanists lie. You twist, you assume, you put words in people’s mouths, and you prove my point exquisitely. I never spoke of the Satanic Temple, you did. All in all, I really appreciate your providing me with the object lesson on obfuscation. It’s something I can show my church’s youth group on what to expect when dealing with lost souls.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Just look back at the start of this conversation, if you think I’m “putting words in people’s mouths”.

            I said “….especially when you consider the Satanic Temple is an atheist group themselves.”

            You replied “They want the tax break…”

            By “they,” I was assuming, as I think would be only logical, you either meant the Satanic Temple in particular (who is the group the article was talking about, after all), or Satanist groups in general. If you meant all of them in general, then showing that one particular one of them does in fact take the tax-exempt status doesn’t prove anything about any of the others. (All Satanists are not the same. There are quite a number of groups calling themselves Satanists or something similar, many of whom have quite different beliefs. Hmm, wait a minute there…one could say just about the same thing about Christianity, couldn’t they? I actually think a lot of the Christians around here would agree with me on that one.)

            But, go ahead and show that youth group this conversation. I really hope you do.

          • Ockham

            I referred back to a “church”. Not some Temple I’ve never heard of.
            Nice try, though, to try to link Christianity, but, as in all your pseudo-Socratic efforts, to no avail. It doesn’t wash, you know it, I know it and any impartial judge will reconize your deceits. Don’t bother responding, I’m not in the mood to listen to further sophistries. I pray that you will repent and believe the Gospel. It is your very soul you trifle with.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “…some Temple I’ve never heard of”

            It was right in the article, you know….maybe you should have read it.

            “Don’t bother responding”

            Too late. I’ll respond if I want to, even if you won’t listen.

          • Ockham

            Oh, I had to read your response. No self control, I guess. I’ve actually enjoyed the repartee. See ya.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Are you really going to tell me that what I said about Christianity isn’t true? That there many churches that call themselves Christian, and they believe different things often? When all the time around here I see Christians saying such-and-such other denomination “aren’t true Christians” or something like that? Would you say that one denomination of Christianity speaks for the rest, and they all do and say the same exact things?

          • Ockham

            The Lord Jesus told of a woman who took a bit of leaven and spread it throughout the loaf. It is a parable of the church. Christians are spread throughout the world to be leaven. But they are hidden in separate places to guard against civil authority from easily destroying the church as, say, in China. When Isaiah complained that he was alone in the world, the Lord told him that he had 7000 who had not bent the knee. They were leaven protecting the word of God. There is no pope or anyone else who speaks for all Christianity. It is the protecting hand of the Lord to keep Christians from being a single unit, as, for example, Roman Catholicism asserts.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “There is no pope or anyone else who speaks for all Christianity.”

            Well, there you go then. See what I’ve been getting at now? Heck, it’s not even just Christianity you could say that about, the same thing could apply to Muslims, or Jews, or probably some religions I’m not even thinking about.

          • Ockham

            I don’t see that at all. In fact, what are you talking about? The same thing meaning what?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            It’s all going back to my point about Satanism. You can’t say that because one group does one thing, everyone else that calls themselves a Satanist does the same thing. The Satanist Chapel you mentioned doesn’t speak for the rest of Satanists any more than one Christian denomination speaks for the rest of Christianity. So, therefore, NO, they’re not all in it for the tax break as you seemed to suggest.

          • Bob Johnson

            And I’m tempted to send this off to schools’ “Critical Thinking” instructors for use by college freshmen.

  • ComeOnPeople!

    The reason Christians are speaking out so strongly is they see prayer being shut down. This is not about a satanist wanting to pray to his god , it’s about an evil under current moving to shut down anything left in our court houses that shows what this country was founded on. They want all reference to GOD removed out of the public setting & any businesses who hold to a Christian belief shut down. When a sect of people see their rights being stripped away one by one, yes they get loud. You know kinda like the Gay and Trans who get loud , extremely rude and yes even violent just because someone won’t make them a cake. Yet the news media paints them as victims & those nonviolent loud praying Christians as villains . PLEASE! This country is becoming so one sided. Get ready people because history repeats itself and those that the news media, movies , TV and propaganda paint as evil will be persecuted.

    • Michael C

      When a sect of people see their rights being stripped away one by one, yes they get loud.

      Ummmm…

      It was the Christians who fought tooth and nail to try to prevent a non-Christian from exercising his rights. When they didn’t get their way and a non-Christian was granted the right to do the same thing that Christians do every day, they threw a tantrum and made a scene to show their disapproval for anything other than their own personal belief structure.

      This is only a story about a persecuted minority if you’re looking at it from the perspective of David Suhor.

      • ComeOnPeople!

        You seriously need to have a rendezvous with your Creator because you have allowed the media to define & change who you are. You can’t see the forest for the trees.

        • ElsaDominga

          He’s been brainwashed and talking nonsense.

        • dan

          Amen! Spot on!

      • Slidellman4life

        Again, do you worship Satan? Or do you just hate Christians? Because the motivation behind this stunt (and it most certainly was) was made abundantly clear, which you bloody well know.

        Can you ever make a point without being deliberately intellectually dishonest?

      • David Collins

        Listen, Michael C. Satan’s followers are the persecutors throughout history, not the other way around. Their names are Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Hitler and on it goes. All professing atheists. But, all in reality devil worshippers.

    • Jalapeno

      How would you feel if you were trying to do your prayer and someone else kept trying to speak over you?

      • ElsaDominga

        Who cares what an occultist feels? Drown them out ALWAYS.

        • Jalapeno

          Ah yes, I forgot. People of different religions aren’t people.

          • Becky

            This is nothing compared to what awaits them if they should not repent and accept Christ as their Lord and Savior.

          • The Skeptical Chymist

            This is the ultimate recourse for a Christian who can’t win an argument – “Just wait until my most loving God condemns you to an eternity of torture!” (Said with a complete lack of empathy).

          • Becky

            Typical heathen reply…all rubbish. Btw, if you don’t like to hear the truth according to the word of God on this here Christian site…go elsewhere…the whole lot of you.

      • ComeOnPeople!

        I would feel frustrated and angry. Your point? My point was that this is not about what you see but what is the underlying current that moist fail to see.

        • Jalapeno

          The…current of people doing things to other people that they wouldn’t want done to themselves because they want their religion to keep being treated as special?

          • ComeOnPeople!

            I hate to inform you but Christianity was the religion that our country was founded upon. It’s principles and it’s laws were all based upon the Bible. It was in every school and court house because it was our foundation but when America became blessed because of righteous principles and laws …. she forgot what made her great & started to remove Christianity from the public square. Our foundation was treasured up until this present generation which has forgotten that the Bible and it’s teachings are what made America special. Why because it taught us to love all men in truth and not to lie to them when they were walking in ungratefulness and unrighteousness. The Bible teaches not to murder, lie, cheat, commit adultery , to honor our parents, to not bear false witness against another man and to serve the GOD who gave such righteous instructions to live by. But this is a wicked generation and although they prosper now and are at easy, GOD will only wink at their turning away for a time and then destruction will come. PSLAMS 73

          • Jalapeno

            Have..you never heard of the first amendment?

          • ComeOnPeople!

            The First Amendment informs that, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech.” Until 1963, this passage was interpreted as allowing of prayer in public school as well as allowing students to engage in religious activity such as having Bible clubs, celebrate Christmas on school property using religious symbols, and so forth (Barron & Dienes, 2000). However, others have argued that this interpretation was far from what the founding fathers intended and for the past 350 years, government officials and educators have been misinterpreting the First Amendment (Levy, 1989).

            Which of these interpretations is correct? One avenue that might be sought in determining an answer to this question is to examine the influence of the Bible in the lives and thoughts of the author of the first amendment and the writers of the American Constitution.

          • Jalapeno

            So.. You’re saying that the people who wrote the first amendment intended Christianity to get special treatment and when it doesn’t happen it validates being rude and intolerant?

          • ComeOnPeople!

            The author of the First Amendment was Fisher Aimes, the son of a Col. Henry Aimes, a revolutionary soldier of Hanover County, Virginia. In 1801, Aimes wrote an article called “School Books” in Pladium Magazine. He stated:

            We have trouble in the classrooms, we are putting in new text books. Nothing wrong with new books but we are spending more time on them than the Bible; it is drifting to the back of the classroom. We cannot tolerate this in American education. The Bible’s morals are pure, its examples are captivating and noble.

            Clearly, the author of the First Amendment’s notion of the place of the Bible in American public education is in conflict with many current day judicial interpretations of the need to allow freedom of religious speech and yet maintain “the separation of church and state,” that is said to be implied in the notion of congress being prohibited from the establishment of a religion (the Establishment Clause).

            The Bible & not any other religious book or creed was the base by which the First Amendment was written. To say that the satanic book has any place in America is to deny our very base and foundation. All of our laws were established via the Bible and written to protect the freedom to practice the scriptures without the State hindering such by laws which restrict it’s practice. A perverted Government is now doing exactly what the Constitution tried to prevent. Soon history will repeat itself and the State will control religion just like it did in England. This is why the people fled to America to be able to practice the Bible in freedom. Read your history before they remove it and you no longer can see the truth.

          • Jalapeno

            ” The Bible’s morals are pure, its examples are captivating and noble.”

            Many people disagree.

            ” A perverted Government is now doing exactly what the Constitution tried to prevent”

            No matter how much religion was originally tolerated in official schools, there is no indication that the founding fathers intended for it to get special treatment.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            You obviously cannot read a post and understand it just as you obviously have not studied your own history.

          • Jalapeno

            I read just fine.

            Yes, we used to be more tolerant of having Christianity in our schools. Some of the people who founded out country thought that it was important, others did not. That does not mean that it actually deserves special treatment now.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Read your history, your laws and your principles… until this generation they had the utmost respect and are just recently being torn down by people who wish to pervert them. This is why you now have men allowed into womens rest areas and women into mens restrooms. This is why you now have the definition of marriage being redefined. This is why the killing of the weakest among us is deemed ok. This is why free speech is now being call hate speech . When you remove what made America special and no longer value it’s principles then you no longer have true liberty. Soon only those who bow down to these new corrupt laws will have liberty and any who disagree will be villainized. History
            always repeats itself and anyone who studies history sees that
            happening with America. With the roots destroyed a Republic dies.

          • Jalapeno

            Yeah, we should go back to the good ol’ days when women and black people weren’t even equal…back when people had to hide their relationships and lack of religion.

            Again…the fact that Christianity used to be tolerated in the government does not mean that it actually gets special treatment now.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Enjoy your GODless society it won’t last long, it never does.

          • Jalapeno

            Oh..MY society?

            Does that mean you’re leaving the country or something? I was under the impression that you lived in the same secular country I do.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Again you have trouble understanding a post. Nope sorry won’t play. I believe most people got my meaning.

          • Jalapeno

            Oh? I took it as a “Have fun living in a society that is going to fail and you’ll regret it and wish that you had allowed religion into the government” type of statement?

            What did you mean then?

          • Michael A. Todd

            Bravo, ComeOnPeople, you are right on. Liberal, progressives cannot or will not process anything related to the true history and the founding principles of the USA. As you have seen, for some people, there is no reasoning with them. Thank you for all of your comments.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            This generation plays would rather play video games, watch immoral unholywood and Devil vision … then read about the history of this country. They have been so bless that they have forgotten that freedom did not come free. That men and women died to have a country that would base it’s laws and principles on the just laws and principles of the Bible . They base their opinions upon propaganda fed to them by the elites new networks which pit people against one another. The blind are leading the blind and they see not where they are all heading. Yet those who study history see and know that an immoral country falls pray to corrupt power hunger leaders and Government control.

          • Magic Latte

            But apparently, the Founding fathers DID intend for two men, who sodomize each other to have the right to a marriage license, right?

          • Tangent002

            The founders likely never intended to allow inter-racial marriage.

          • Jalapeno

            Yeah, lets look to the time period when we restricted based on race and when marriage was effectively ownership of a woman. Great ideals.

          • Magic Latte

            I was only using your arguments about the Founding Fathers’ intentions.

          • Jalapeno

            Not even close.

            Someone says that the founding fathers had these beliefs so we need to continue giving a certain religion special treatment.

            I pointed out that the founding fathers beliefs do NOT mean that..so..you turn it into a gay marriage thing?

          • Magic Latte

            No matter how much religion was originally tolerated in official schools, there is no indication that the founding fathers intended for it to get special treatment.

            This is an argument based on “what the Founding fathers intended”.

            Don’t try to back-pedal now.

          • Jalapeno

            No..it’s not.

            Context is important.

          • Magic Latte

            You can’t even own up to your own words now?

          • Jalapeno

            I’m happy to own up to my argument when it’s the argument I actually made. Whatever though. You’re right..the founding fathers hated interracial and gay marriages so we’ll just work on banning them. Good luck with that.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Which is correct? Neither. It’s a matter of opinion. Which opinion carries the force of law? The one that the Supreme Court holds.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            The point is that we have went very far away from what was the interpretation of the Constitution. WHY? Because America became blessed via our laws which were based upon the Bible and then America placed her trust upon the blessings and not upon the ONE who had given those blessings. Now America is corrupt and forming laws which deviate from the original intent and foundation of it’s founders. The founders based their laws upon the bible… these new corrupted judges base there laws upon opinions.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            While I take exception to the idea that the Founders “based their laws on the Bible,” my question still remains: so what? So what if the current interpretation of the Constitution is far from the Founders’ intent, the Bible, or anything else? The law, as written, is the law, no matter how much frothing at the mouth users of this site do.

            There are many ways to change laws if you don’t like them, but until you do, don’t pretend that they don’t exist. You’re not accomplishing anything by doing that, other than making yourself look ignorant.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Another words you want anyone who still believes that the biblical principles and laws we founded our country upon to shut up and allow our country to become immoral and corrupt without a fight. Hate to inform you but most of us have children and Grand children of which we love dearly and want them to enjoy this great country. Without it’s foundation it will crumble. Study history. With the moral laws being replaced with immoral laws soon you won’t recognize America. I’m old enough to have seen it’s decline with each new immoral law passed. Maybe you and the younger generation only think of today and yourselves but many of us who are older care about the future and the America our children live in tomorrow. An America where immorality becomes law is not the America I want my Kids and Grand kids to live in. We are quickly loosing our Republic, where the people no longer rule but corrupt leaders and law makers. But hey all of this is predicted in the word of GOD and just makes it all the more reliable. Soon and even now people like myself will be villainized for holding onto the moral laws & principles America once fought for. As for ignorance… sorry but I’m far from it and this wicked generation hates that I actually do not fall for their propaganda and malarkey.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            “Another words you want anyone who still believes that the biblical principles and laws we founded our country upon to shut up and allow our country to become immoral and corrupt without a fight.”

            Not only did I not say that, I said the opposite of it.

            You have every right to fight whatever laws you want. You can vote against them, litigate in court, write letters to the paper, stand at the train station handing out leaflets, organize a protest, or run for office yourself if you so desire.

            The only thing you can’t do is the only thing seemingly everyone here does: boldly proclaim that laws you don’t like don’t exist, aren’t enforceable, or don’t apply to you.

            Do you see the difference? One is undertaking activism. The other is just being bullheaded and willfully ignorant.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            This statement ( “The law, as written, is the law, no matter how much frothing at the mouth users of this site do.” ) seemed to imply that you don’t approve of those who still hold to the laws this country was found upon voicing their disproval when those laws are changed and corrupted.

            Most posts I’ve read do not act as if they cannot see these new laws, or act as if they do not exist or even that they don’t apply to them. Most posters simply post to voice their disapproval of these new corrupt laws which are being put in place by corrupt judges. Most on these posts see an America they no longer recognize & see their religious freedoms slowly diminishing. They see what America once held to being called hate speech now. They see women & girls privacies being taken away in public restrooms. They see the very definitions of marriage and the family being redefined. They see the government gaining more and more power as the power of the people weakens . They see their kids being taught immorality in their schools & morality frowned upon. They see people who believe in what this nation was founded upon being called villains, bigots , a threat and intolerant and told that they must change their beliefs to fit these new laws. So yes they voice their disapproval and their concerns on here. Are some bullheaded, yeah probably as are many of those who agree with everything and anything that comes out of our corrupt court system. Are some willfully ignorant? Oh I’m sure some are, just as some are who stick their head in the sand and refuse to see that their countries once held morals and values are slowly being destroyed. Are some activists ? Yup just as are many who rally to see our laws changed to fit their lifestyles and options. Many just like yourself post on here to give voice to what they believe. Thankfully we all can still do so. Do I believe it will last? No, not at the rate so called hate speech laws are progressing.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            “you don’t approve of those who still hold to the laws this country was found upon voicing their disproval when those laws are changed and corrupted.”

            I don’t find much that is particularly special about the laws that this country was founded on, and neither do many people,which is why there have been many, many thousands of laws enacted since the country was founded. However, that’s not my issue with the site and its users.

            “Most posts I’ve read do not act as if they cannot see these new laws, or act as if they do not exist or even that they don’t apply to them. Most posters simply post to voice their disapproval of these new corrupt laws which are being put in place by corrupt judges.”

            Then you need to put your glasses on. I argue every single day with people who try to rewrite the entire legal system, or believe that their opinions supersede those of the Supreme Court, or boldly proclaim nonsense legal theories in an effort to convince themselves and others that certain laws they don’t like simply do not exist. If you can’t see that, scroll up. You’ll see plenty.

            “So yes they voice their disapproval and their concerns on here.”

            Which is their right and I usually don’t respond to people simply for expressing an opinion. However there’s a difference between expressing disapproval of a given law or ruling and boldly pronouncing that it simply doesn’t exist. You have a right to your own opinion. You do not have a right to your own facts.

          • Heidi K.

            Amen and Amen, ComeOnPeople. Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It’s wholly inadequate to the government of any other. John Adams 1798

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely
            between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his
            faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach
            actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence
            that act of the whole American people which declared that their
            legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
            or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”, thus building a wall of separation between church and State.”

            – Thomas Jefferson

    • ElsaDominga

      Do not surrender. If we unite at the same time every night and send out our prayers and thoughts to all believers we can get stronger. We have to try. Pray and say each night “I love you my fellow believers, as I know you love me. I am with you in spirit as you are with me. Let our hearts and voices calm one another and be the shield that deflects the darkness. Let the rays of faith light our paths and lead us to the tranquil still waters of peace. No matter how loud the devil’s pawns, let our spirits be calm and our aura be stronger.

      • ComeOnPeople!

        If MY people which are called by MY NAME will humble themselves and PRAY AND turn from their WICKED ways and SEEK MY FACE, THEN will I hear from heaven and will HEAL their land.

        I don’t blame sinners… they are blinded by deception.. I blame Christians for the state of our nation because they refuse to fall on their knees and turn away from wickedness. Most toy with GOD and seek HIM only when they get in a bind. They make their moral desertions not based upon GOD’s instructions but upon court rulings and whatever the society deems ok. The children of darkness are wiser then the children of light and they have been praying, and seeking their god. They seem to have a deeper understanding of what cannot be seen then those who half way serve GOD.

        YES the people of GOD need to come out from among them and be separate . They need to again follow HIS instructions and be a light so that those who are deceived might come to know their CREATOR. They need to pray and have a relationship with GOD and turn away from disobedience to HIS instructions. Then and only then will GOD heal our nation and cause it to be one nation under GOD once again.

        • Manu

          Absolutely true.

    • Jordan Kimkaran

      No, it’s about if you allow one religion to make an invocation, you let them ALL do it.

      • ComeOnPeople!

        Christianity has always been the religion this country based it’s laws & principles upon. Only recently has our country tried to remove every trace of that fact from the public square. Why? Simple so new corrupt laws can replace just ones. When judges start making laws based upon the whims, carnality and immoral acts of men , they have no choice but to redefine our Constitution using their perverted versions of the principles we have held dear since this country was founded. The fact of the matter is that this country was not founded upon other religions. It was founded upon the Bible’s principles and the ten commandments. Because it has drifted off it’s foundation any trace of the truth must be removed so as this generation will not know it’s history. History repeats itself and when a society no longer practices morality it is taken over by immoral leaders. Our country has been slowly heading towards no longer being a Republic. But in the last 10 years it has went from slowly to quickly traveling down the road marked History repeats itself.

    • TheKingOfRhye

      You know, the issue people like this are having is not just about Christians praying in public. It’s not just “in public” that’s the problem, it’s when it’s in a government function, like, oh, a city council meeting. The government can’t endorse one religion over others, so they either have to give any religion a chance, or just have no prayer at all.

      Also, you referenced the bakeries and such refusing to serve LGBT people. What I’d like to know is how would you feel if you were in that situation. How would you feel if you tried to get a wedding cake, and were told by the bakers that they don’t serve Christian weddings, because it goes against their beliefs?

      • ComeOnPeople!

        First off this country until now had no problem with the ten commandments being in the court houses, with taking pledges using a bible, with prayer at football games, with prayers before meetings… etc etc. Only recently as corruption has ran rampant has this country had a problem with the use of the Bible or prayers because we all know what this country used to form our laws and our principles. But when corrupt judges are put in place they could care less about just laws or principles. They cater to the whims of men and mens opinions and make laws based upon the carnality of mankind.

        Secondly… If I went to say a bakery who’s owner was an atheist and he refused to make me a cake with say the words GOD is real. I would be upset sure but I’d simply take my business elsewhere . I’m not so immature that I can’t handle someone who won’t participate in making me a cake based on his dismissal of his CREATOR. There are plenty of bakers which would have no problem with my cake request. People offend people all the time. People disagree all the time. I won’t go to target anymore. Why? Because they have taken my right to privacy as a woman away in their stores when I need to use their restrooms. There are many other places to shop that have not given in to the insanity. It’s called freedom to practice religion or not to practice it. To force someone to make you a cake is to take away their right to practice what they believe.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          I’m not sure what not allowing prayers and things like that has to do with corruption. And, no, our laws are not baswed on the Bible. I keep saying this, but only 3 of the 10 commandments are things that have parallels in laws. And those are hardly things that only Christianity frowns on.

  • jael2

    Giving a Satanist a platform would’ve been unthinkable just a couple of decades ago. But since we are a post-Christian nation, a nation of commandment breakers, the vacuum is being filled by the pagans. But take note, you haters of the Lord; Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. When He comes back to the earth to execute His wrath, you will then be “believers”.

    For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written:
    “As I live, says the Lord,
    Every knee shall bow to Me,
    And every tongue shall confess to God.”
    So then each of us shall give account of himself to God” Romans 14:1-12

    • TheKingOfRhye

      Post-Christian nation? It never was a Christian nation in the first place. A nation of mostly Christians, sure, but that’s not the same thing.

      Also, remember we have a thing called the First Amendment….

      • dan

        The very first amendment is freedom of religion and freedom of speech follows.

        • Tangent002

          The 1st amendment also guarantees freedom from religion, at least in regards to the government. The Constitution guarantees that everyone has a right to free speech, not just Christians.

          • Slidellman4life

            The 1st amendment also guarantees freedom from religion

            No, it doesn’t, you stupid commie. The First Amendment says Congress cannot create its own religion or keep people from practicing theirs, nothing more. It’s men in black robes that expanded it to “separation of church and state” and atheist commies like yourself that twisted that to mean references to God and Jesus have no place in the public square.

          • Jalapeno

            You cannot have freedom OF religion without having freedom FROM religion.

          • Tangent002

            We have both.

          • Tangent002

            Is your God so feeble that He requires a government subsidy?

          • Slidellman4life

            Do you have a point to make?

          • disqus_DOlL8appuA

            He’s your God too and your knee shall bow as well.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Yeah, the First Amendment says laws can’t keep people from practicing their religion, that’s right. So that applies to Satanism just as much as it does to Christianity.

          • Slidellman4life

            *smh* You did not read the article, did you?

            Suhor, who angrily smacked his notebook on the podium, acknowledged that he had a reason for the spectacle.
            “Adopt some [expletive] rules. Stop pandering for votes. Quit pushing Christian privilege as we’ve seen with the Bayview cross and so many other issues and instead go to a moment of silence, that lets everybody pray or not according to their own conscience,” he said.

            In other words, this was nothing more than a stunt to make a political point. This had nothing to do with the First Amendment, freedom of religion or free speech, except in the desire to squelch Christian speech.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            A moment of silence that lets everybody pray or not according to their own conscience…..sounds like freedom of religion to me, right there.

            “Suhor also held up a sign with Matthew 6:5-6 to assert that prayers are not to be prayed in public.”

          • Slidellman4life

            Being intellectually dishonest. Big shock.

            Again, a moment of silence isn’t what he wanted.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            It sounds to me like he wanted either all religions to have equal opportunity or no public organized prayer of any kind in that situation. How is that ‘intellectually dishonest’? Personally, I think he’s got a good point.

          • Slidellman4life

            He could make a better point by reading the Constitution and keeping his anti-Christian mouth shut.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Hmm….I’m not familiar with that part of the Constitution….the “keep your anti-Christian mouth shut” Amendment?

          • Ronald Carter

            Was that who I think it was? Comment got deleted so that leads me to believe it was.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Yep!

          • Magic Latte

            Yes. And the 14th Amendment says everyone has the constitutional right to a marriage license so that applies to pedophiles who want to marry 7 year olds and people, who want to marry animals and inanimate objects just as much as it applies to gays.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            First of all, this doesn’t have anything to do with marriage. And, I guess consent means nothing to you, huh?

          • DoneDoneThat

            King, did Jesus speak absolute truth or did he lie?
            I believe he did. He is God isn’t he?
            My conclusion is, he he spoke absolute truth, the everything spoken that differs from it is a lie. Is that a reasonable assumption?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Well, I’m an atheist, so I’m probably not someone that you should be asking those questions to.

          • DoneDoneThat

            That would be you’re interpretation as well as many judges interpretation of the first amendment. I disagree. When I look at the history of the founding of this nation, I do not think the founders were considering anything but Christianity in the writing of the first amendment. I do not believe their intent was to sanction satanic worship or Muslim worship. Those weren’t anywhere on their radar. If you can produce any writings to contract, please do so.
            At any rate, as a Christian, my desire is to know God, worship God, obey God, and my vote, as best as I can with the available options, always reflects my beliefs. That is so far still my right. Those who oppose that view, vote and/or govern opposite of that view.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Well, if they wanted the First Amendment to apply to only Christianity, what I wonder is why Christianity isn’t mentioned in it, or anywhere else in the Constitution for that matter.

            “I do not believe their intent was to sanction satanic worship or Muslim
            worship. Those weren’t anywhere on their radar. If you can produce any
            writings to contract, please do so.”

            Find any writings to support that, how about that? But anyway, as was once written a long time ago, “Ask, and it shall be
            given you; seek, and ye shall find”….

            “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense,
            founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of
            enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen
            (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of
            hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan)
            nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from
            religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony
            existing between the two countries.” – Treaty of Tripoli, 1797

            “No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship,
            place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained,
            molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer,
            on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall
            be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in
            matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish,
            enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.” – Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, written by Thomas Jefferson

            “But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” – Thomas Jefferson

        • TheKingOfRhye

          That’s my point.

      • David Collins

        So, does the first amendment allow you, King of Rhye to yell ‘fire’ in a crowded theater?

        • Ambulance Chaser

          No, but he didn’t do that. So your question is irrelevant.

          • David Collins

            Look at the lengths these devil worshippers will go to justify satanic invocations. We are in the end days.

          • Tangent002

            The Satanic Temple are not devil worshipers.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Okay, so do you or do you not support the Satanic Temple’s right to perform an invocation?

          • David Collins

            Spoken like a true ambulance chaser. Didnt they teach you in law school that you don’t phrase a question like that? It is verbose. You ask: Do you support …..”
            To answer your question: Evil has no ‘rights’.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            That doesn’t answer the question, but I’ll assume that’s a “No, the Satanic Temple should not be allowed to give an invocation at a city council meeting.” Is that correct?

          • David Collins

            It does answer the question. Your problem is you don’t like the answer. so to answer you again, no evil (such as the satanic temple) should be allowed to invoke satan. In fact, they should be shut down and run out of town. Their temples burned to the ground, and the space consecrated to God. They should not be allowed to give an invocation any more so than the deceived demon worshippers in Israel who threw their babies into the red hot mouth of Molech whereupon they screamed in pain and were cooked to death as a sacrifice to satan. It may have been socially acceptable, but God says ‘anyone who harms one of these little ones, it would be better for them if a millstone were hung around their neck and they were dropped into the sea than what is going to happen to them in the judgment.”

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Town of Greece v. Galloway: if one religion is allowed to give an invocation, they all are.

            Sorry, the law is the law.

          • David Collins

            That’s not the law. God’s law is the law. Man’s law, based on the devils law is not the law at all. We must obey God rather than men. So, stick it in your craw.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            In this country, out legal system ignores “God’s law.” So, no, that’s not how it works at all.

          • David Collins

            God does not care how the human law works. I don’t care how human law works. God’s law trumps manmade devil worshipping law. Therefore, Satanists do NOT get to give invocations, regardless of manmade law. And, their ‘temple’s are to be burned down and the ground consecrated to God. And, you can go to hell if that is your wish.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Well, if you’re not going to discuss the matter rationally, then forget it.

          • David Collins

            your definition of rational only includes a proposition with which you agree. Otherwise, you resort to the use of euphemistic pejorative.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Excuse me, but don’t presume to tell me what I believe. I won’t do it to you and I expect the same courtesy in return.

            My definition of “rational” would include many people who disagree with me, as long as they are willing to accept reality. You seem unwilling to do that as evidenced by the fact that you want the government to take an action that is clearly and grossly unconstitutional, and which you know as well as I do that the government cannot and will not do. The government is inviolably REQUIRED to obey the Constitution.

            Your argument that we should simply obey “God’s law” over man’s is a cop-out. It’s a response without an answer. It requires no understanding of the law and relevant legal issues. In short, what you’re doing is inventing your own rules for a game that has been running for centuries already, and that’s just cheating.

          • David Collins

            I will summarize your position here so that we can end this discussion: You worship the devil and want to obey him. Christians worship Jesus Christ and choose to obey Him. These two positions are in direct contradiction of each other. Only one can prevail. You and your god, satan, are going to lose. Jesus Christ will return and He will rule. It will be the theorcracy you hate so much. But, this world and its inhabitants belong to Him. He is God. He will decide what the rules are. Hint: go read the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. The devil and your secular government will be done away with. Goodbye and good riddance. They will be destroyed by Jesus Christ. Simple. End of story. Your days are numbered. And, He is the One who has numbered them. Maranatha.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “…evil (such as the satanic temple)”

            From the Satanic Temple’s website, their “Seven Tenets”:

            One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason.

            The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

            One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

            The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo your own.

            Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the
            world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our
            beliefs.

            People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and resolve any harm that may have been caused.

            Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in
            action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

            Does that sound “evil” to you? It doesn’t to me….

          • David Collins

            The devil is a clever counterfeitor isn’t he. No mention made of Jesus Christ and His payment for our sins. We were made for Jesus Christ, not ourselves. Unless you confess Him as Lord and believe God raised Him from the dead, you cannot be saved. No matter how good you may think you are in human terms, or how much you try to apply the devil’s counterfeit standard of righteousness, you are still rejecting Jesus Christ and are still going to hell. Those propositions you have listed are a mixture of human standards of goodness mixed with the fables of demons that you have fallen for. The standard is perfection and perfectly meeting God’s laws. That is God’s requirement. And, the standards you list will never get you to God’s heaven, no matter how much you think you have met them or try. And, by the way, so called science (‘knowledge’)is not the measure or source of Truth. Jesus Christ and His Word are the measure. Do you really believe that fallible man with his limited intellect and understanding can claim to have all science (knowledge). Do you really believe the material world is the extent of reality? Ever seen an exorcism? Ever seen Jesus Christ in person? I have. Ever seen a window into heaven and deceased loved ones who are there? I have. And, others were with me. Finally, ‘evil’ is defined as missing God’s mark. The tenets you list are not from God and as I said above, meeting them will not get you to heaven. Ergo they are evil.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Do you really believe that fallible man with his limited intellect and understanding can claim to have all science (knowledge)”

            No. I never said that. The Satanic Temple didn’t say that. Scientists, for that matter, don’t say that. (which is why, for one thing, a scientific theory can always be modified, refined, or even outright rejected)

            “Do you really believe the material world is the extent of reality?”

            I believe it’s the extent of any reality human beings can experience. (while still alive, at least) You obviously believe otherwise, and I can respect that. I’m not trying to convert you or anyone else here to my way of thinking, fine if I do I guess, but I’m not holding my breath really….I just mainly want people to understand what that way of thinking IS.

            “Ever seen an exorcism? Ever seen Jesus Christ in person? I have. Ever
            seen a window into heaven and deceased loved ones who are there? I have.”

            I haven’t seen any of those things. It seems they usually happen to someone who already believes in things like that.

          • Ronald Carter

            What leads you to believe we are in the end days?

            Think about how much more it would have felt like the end days when the Black Plague was going on, and that was how many hundred years ago?

    • dan

      Amen!

    • Jordan Kimkaran

      Satanists deserve a platform like anyone else

      • Magic Latte

        Men, who want to marry their pets deserve marriage licenses just like anyone else.

        • Jordan Kimkaran

          Do I really need to explain how false that equivalence is?

          • Magic Latte

            No more false than your point about Satanists.

          • Jordan Kimkaran

            No. Why aren’t Satanists allowed a platform? They have religious rights like you christians do. How does allowing a person to perform a “prayer” equate to a person marrying an animal? Please explain that one…

          • Magic Latte

            Why aren’t man/animal marriages allowed marriage equality? Zoophiles have fundamental rights like you gays do.

          • Tangent002

            Animals cannot take on any of the legal responsibilities of a spouse.

          • Magic Latte

            So what?

          • Tangent002

            So there is no point for a legal recognition.

          • Magic Latte

            There’s no point for legally-recognizing same-sex marriage either.

          • Tangent002

            I’ve answered this elsewhere.

          • Magic Latte

            And it was still insufficient.

          • Jordan Kimkaran

            Uh, except like I said, animals do not have the ability to consent to marriage, therefore it’s illegal. Oh, you automatically assumed I’m gay. Nice. No, there’s a tremendous difference. Which I just pointed out. And at what time did I mention a slippery slope? The only person doing that is you.

          • Magic Latte

            And like I said, animals do not have the ability to end up on your dinner plate either but that’s never stopped anyone from eating them.

            Your slippery-slope: If Christians have the right to an invocation before city council, Satanists must have that same right.

            My slippery-slope: If marriage equality is a constitutional right for same-sex couples, it must be a constitutional right for incestuous couples, man/beast couples and whatever else is out there.

  • TheBBP

    “Some believe that Satanic Temple members are actually atheist and agnostics out to make a point.”

    LOL, is there really any doubt that this stuff is anything more than Christian-hating Atheists dressing up in a costume so that they can attempt to irritate some Christians? I do hope that this man’s heart opens to the Lord before it is too late.

    • Jordan Kimkaran

      It’s not just christians, it’s all religions. Christianity just happens to be the most vocal and obnoxious. Hey, did he demand those christians come and annoy him? No. So how is it an attempt of him to irritate them? THEY went to HIM.

      • ort

        So you love that islam, eh? Bigot.

        • Jordan Kimkaran

          What part of “all religions” did you not understand?

          • ort

            You said “Christianity just happens to be the most vocal and obnoxious.”
            You obviously live under a rock, because islam is a cancer upon the world and NO CHRISTIAN wants to behead you or force you to convert. islam/muslims do.
            I think it is you who does not understand a thing.

          • Jordan Kimkaran

            Yeah, exactly. All religions suck. And yes, christianity is the most obnoxious about it. Did you see any muslims bothering this man? No. In fact, most muslims here keep to themselves.

          • ort

            Aahhh, another useful dhimmi. Carry on.

          • Magic Latte

            The Satanist’s “point” is akin to a gay marriage opponent going to court to get the right to marry his dog.

            His supporters (like Jordan) would be telling us that all marriages suck but gays are the most obnoxious about it.

            Therefore, as long as we have marriage equality for one group, we should have it for all or for no one.

          • Jordan Kimkaran

            No, because animals do not have the ability to consent to marriage. So no. Why do you morons always bring in the “Oh, if they get to marry, then people can marry dogs, children, ect.” argument? Even though it’s been explained a million times why the two have no relation?

          • Magic Latte

            Animals don’t have the ability to consent to being a Wendy’s menu item either so that’s a rather disingenuous point.

            But since you’re not smart enough to understand this, I’ll explain it to you once again:

            When you use the “slippery-slope from Christian prayer to Satanist prayer” argument, you’d better be ready to accept the “slippery-slope from marriage equality for same-sex couples to marriage equality to man/beast couples” argument..

            Live by the slippery-slope, die by the slippery-slope.

          • Tangent002

            There is no point to marrying an animal: It cannot make end-of-life decisions for you. It cannot inherit your estate. It cannot even make you a ham sandwich.

          • Magic Latte

            There is no point in marrying someone of the same sex either.

          • Tangent002

            Sure there is. That person can make medical decisions for you. They can inherit your stuff when you die. They can care for you in your sickness. It’s the same reason straight people get married.

          • Magic Latte

            There is no point in marrying someone of the same sex.

            Medical decisions can be made for you by family members. Family members can inherit your stuff when you die. Family-members can care for you in your sickness too.

            Why can’t you marry family members?

          • Tangent002

            What if you don’t like your family members?

            Marriage to a close blood relation is legally superfluous, as close relative already have the majority of benefits and rights afforded by marriage.

            Marriage is a legal mechanism by which people can choose one another as close relatives. It has nothing at all to do with procreation or God unless you choose to include those elements.

            What is the point of marrying someone of the opposite sex if there is no intention of having children?

          • Jordan Kimkaran

            Don’t bother with this moron.

          • Magic Latte

            1) If you don’t like your family members, you can have your boyfriend or girlfriend do it.

            2) Marriage to a close blood relation still does not afford one the dignity of having their marriage recognized by the state. It doesn’t allow you to adopt either.

            3) If marriage has nothing at all to do with procreation, I guess you just lost your best argument against incestuous marriage.

          • Jordan Kimkaran

            And there’s people out there who want that changed as well. It is not a disingenuous point. What slippery slope??? They have the right to say a prayer just like you!!! Who do they harm? This has nothing to do with marriage. So if you keep bringing that up I really don’t care.

          • ort

            People like you say “all religions” just so you can get an extra special dig at Christians. The least you can do is admit it.

          • Jordan Kimkaran

            No, all religions suck. Christians are just the most obnoxious. Not once has a Muslim ever called me a name or treated me poorly.

          • ort

            So, your response to someone being a rude idiot is to bear a grudge for the rest of your life?? How very sad.
            You will meet rude people from all walks of life as long as you are on this earth. If you can’t deal with that, no dice. You’ll just have to get used to it like every other human being has.

          • Jordan Kimkaran

            No, The person may be a nice person. I just don’t like their religion.

  • violetteal

    What has our nation become? This is disgusting. I don’t care what the political correct thing is. Praying to satan is a sin. This is what happens who you suppress freedom of religion. You get the oppression of those who follow Christ.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Whose freedom of religion is being “suppressed?” I see just the opposite happening here.

  • TheKingOfRhye

    “Some believe that Satanic Temple members are actually atheist and agnostics out to make a point.”

    Some believe? Actually, they pretty much come out and SAY that. Much like the Church of Satan founded by Anton LaVey, they only believe in Satan as a symbol.

    • Josey

      They are invoking evil spirits for power so it’s more than a symbol to them, you have two sides to choose from in this world, Christ Jesus who is God and came in the flesh as the Son of the Living God our Creator and satan’s Creator also or you can serve satan and join him and join in his punishment at the end of the age, who is but a fallen angel who was a creation of Almighty God but he chose to rebel against the Almighty and he will be get the worst punishment of all when he is thrown into the burning pit of hell at God’s timing.
      Anton LaVey invoked evil spirits, he has written much about it, don’t be deceived and on his deathbed when he was ready to transfer his evil power to another it has been said that he said, “something is very wrong here.” Yes, what was wrong was the demons coming to claim his soul that he traded out to them for his short time of using their evil power on this earth and he is now burning in the lake of fire.
      Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
      Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Luke 10:18-19 vs18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

      • TheKingOfRhye

        “They are invoking evil spirits for power so it’s more than a symbol to them”

        Oh? And how many members of the Satanic Temple or the Church of Satan have you personally spoken to? And they’ve all said (in contradiction of everything they say on their own websites!) it’s “more than a symbol”?

        I wouldn’t have thought anything about that comment, if you hadn’t put in those last two words, “to them”….yeah sure, Satan is “more than a symbol” to you and other Christians, I wouldn’t deny that, but then you have to go and claim to know what’s inside the minds of other people, what they believe?

  • ElsaDominga

    I’m telling you right now- STOP MESSING WITH THE OCCULT. There is nothing but wickedness in their hearts and thoughts.Stop allowing for the invoking of the devil. Can’t you see how much sadness and gloom we have in society today because so many are taking this lightly?Can’t you see what it’s doing to the tone and vibe in America and around the world? It’s beyond sad to see the weakness of man’s spirit when it comes to this. These Satanists are dangerous and will hurt you. They will tear you down and do all they can to create madness and demise. And know this-HIllary Clinton is very much in their “prayers”. Do not dance with the devil. You may think it’s harmless, but I assure you it is not. These Satanists are lurking everywhere and they want our children’s hearts. Please teach them well and remind them to know how to block the darkness. Please

    • dan

      Hell is not only about pain but also about regret, forever never ending and if (immoral) atheist don’t have a change of heart then it will be to late!!!!

  • Becky

    “While the prayers delivered during Pensacola city hall meetings are generally Christian, Suhor had requested to present his own invocation on behalf of the Satanic Temple and was permitted to proceed due to fear of a lawsuit.”

    Christians should not fear any man (Luke 12:4,5).

    “The Scriptures speak of not seeking to gain the applause of men by drawing attention to oneself in an ostentatious manner.”

    Wrong heathens. This is about the prayers of hypocrites and not God’s people praying in public. Christ prayed publicly (John 11). Ezra prayed publicly while he confessed, wept and bowed down before the house of God (Ezra 10). King Solomon prayed publicly (1 Kings 8). Paul prayed in public, along with others.

    • doree10

      Daniel prayed three times a day…

      • Fee

        And with his windows wide open for all to hear.

  • disqus_DOlL8appuA

    Why didn’t someone just raise the cross up towards him. Would be curious to see what would happen.

    • Tangent002

      What do you think would happen? Members of the Satanic Temple aren’t vampires.

      • disqus_DOlL8appuA

        Thank you for the laugh Tangent002, and I’m being serious, I had a good chuckle picturing it. But they don’t like the cross either.

        • Tangent002

          For an atheist, a cross is just an object.

      • Magic Latte

        Yeah. They’re just anti-Christian trolls – not vampires.

        • Tangent002

          Why do you say they are anti-Christian? They are just asking for the same privileges Christians get.

          • Magic Latte

            I say they’re anti-Christian because they are.

            The “Satanist” himself admits that he is not a Satanist and that he has no connection to the “Church of Satan”.

            He is an atheist trying to rid the city council of Christian prayer.

          • Tangent002

            If a city council allows Christian prayer during an invocation, they must allow all prayer. If a school allows for the distribution of Bibles, they must also allow for the distribution of other materials. If a state court house has a monument of the Ten Commandments, they must also allow for a statue of Baphomet.

          • Magic Latte

            And if a state allows marriage licenses for same-sex marriages, they must allow marriage licenses for incestuous marriages, pedophile marriages and polygamous marriages. If the Supreme Court allows same-sex couples to marry and adopt, they must allow father-daughter couples to marry and adopt.

            Right?

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            *rolls eyes**facepalm* Seriously?

          • Tangent002

            Well, he/she isn’t harping on about man/beast weddings anymore. I guess that’s an improvement.

          • Magic Latte

            I gave the same facepalm when you made your Satanist arguments.

            It’s funny how you anti-Christian trolls see all slippery-slopes except the ones contained in your own arguments.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Uhm, what satanist arguments?

    • axelbeingcivil

      I imagine he’d have either ignored it and carried on or rolled his eyes and muttered a frustrated “Really…?”

  • Reason2012

    “While the prayers delivered during Pensacola city hall meetings are generally Christian, Suhor had requested to present his own invocation on behalf of the Satanic Temple and was permitted to proceed due to fear of a lawsuit.”

    Satanism is not a religion – it’s a hate group designed to mock Christianity – and they do not need to give “time” to a group whose purpose is to hatefully mock Christianity.

    • Jalapeno

      You’re wrong on quite a few points there. It’s not a hate group, there’s no mockery, and they’re legally considered a religion.

  • Josey

    Why wasn’t a Christian prayer given after his satanic ritual? Luke 10:18,19 vs18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Jesus Christ is superior and victorious so let them give their pansy prayer to the fallen angel satan and men of Jesus Christ rise up and pray publicly in the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ and those demonic forces and curses will flee from the ppl!!!

  • Jo Hayman

    I surely hope this guy likes HEAT, because sadly, that’s what he will “inherit” by serving his current “master”. And what it so poignant is that by the time he/they realize it, it will be too late to change their minds. And I say that with all sincerity and sadness, as my brother and family are on that “track” and won’t see the truth. Narrow is the path ———–

  • Matt H. Basel-Switzerland

    Satan is ruling over this earth! His time, however is limited and he knows it! However, the tragic is, that so many people believe in this stupid spirit and don’t realize that while giving him praises will bring them to the place, where Satan has got his final “unrest”, the eternal fire of Hell! It’s only Jesus who is the Saviour! Hand his power is farmost more important and more effective as the slimy power of the fallen spirit, called satan…

  • Tangent002

    “Some believe that Satanic Temple members are actually atheist and agnostics out to make a point.”

    You’re just now getting that?

  • Heidi K.

    The end times are screaming at us, things like this shouldn’t happen in America!

    • Bob Johnson

      So have you sold all that you have and given it to the poor?

  • Chris Gerber

    Throughout the history of America, a secular government has ruled the country with a Christian base working in the background of all participants. You invite the controversy and chaos when you try to make a secular entity such as government into a theocratic function. Disallow public prayer of any kind but allow a moment of silence to pray if you must, or encourage Christian prayer before the meeting starts “in the closet” as scripture stipulates.

  • Linda Fowler

    Jesus said “you are either for me (pro, Christian, christlike) or against me (anti-christ). There are no atheists or agnostics. One decision that everyone must make. Do you choose Heaven or Hell?

    • axelbeingcivil

      There’s tons of atheists and agnostics out there. Literal millions of them. Outright conventions are held.

  • Rebecca Bonnell

    This is serious stuff and Praise to all those who stood up for The Truth and Prayed The Lord’s Prayer. AMEN AND HALLELUJAH PRAISE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST FOR HE IS GOOD! XXX

  • axelbeingcivil

    If this were the other way around, there’d be hollering about how disrespectful this is and how it’s an obvious sign of loathing for the speaker. This Satanist has no doubt attended council meetings before and somehow avoided interrupting Christian invocations.

    If you don’t feel comfortable having someone of a different religion do the invocation, though, maybe scrap invocations altogether?

  • Heretic2011

    Never let it be said that Christians will allow anyone to practice another religion in peace. Don’t you freaks have enough blood on your hands?

    • Guest

      Yeah, because building hospitals, feeding the poor, and taking in orphans is so evil./sarc

  • Carla Virga

    The United States was founded and flourished as a Christian Constitutional Republic. The very foundations which made us the greatest nation in the world are continually being eroded by non-Christian, anti-Constitution Democrats who refuse to acknowledge all our inrights come from God, not from revolving governments of sinful men.

    • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

      False. Some of our Founders were not even Christian and neither the Bible nor Jesus is mentioned anywhere in the Constitution. In fact, Article VI of the Constitution specifically forbids any religious test as a requirement for a government office.

      • Carla Virga

        Christ was certainly mentioned in all the founding documents signed “In the year of our Lord…”

        • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

          That was a common term for most documents back then. It has the same value as any other salutation. Secondly, just the phrase, “in the year of our Lord” could refer to any lord of any religion.

          Thirdly Christianity/Jesus is still not mentioned in the Constitution.

          Religious belief is a subjective matter and most often it is held by a person because it was what he was taught to believe since tot-hood. Had a Christian to day happened to have been born to a Muslim family in a Muslim society, he would be a Muslim and believe it every bit as much as any Christian believes theirs.

          • Carla Virga

            You have obviously not studied the Bible, the Founding Fathers, nor the Federalist Papers. It was a common term back then because it was common knowledge — knowledge that did not need to be explained to because everyone believed it to be true due to their European ancestry. It is precisely due to their Christianity that this nation became the greatest nation in the shortest period of time that drew others to our shores. Instead of embracing God’s moral laws and Christ’s advice to love thy neighbor as thyself, there are those creating chaos, divisiveness, and fear by turning from God and His guide book. We are all sinners, but we have the guidebook to lead us on the right path for ourselves and for our civilized, charitable and loving society which is under constant attack by those who work to keep the truth and the light from innocent souls,

          • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

            You have obviously not studied the Bible, the Founding Fathers, nor the Federalist Papers

            Wrong, wrong and wrong. I wrote a novel based on biblical literality which included counter arguments on the origin of Christianity.

            As for the Founders being Christian, certainly most were, but several very famous ones were not.

            Thomas Jefferson was a Deist. Accordingly, he wrote:

            Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must approve the homage of reason rather than of blindfolded fear. (Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, 10 Aug. 1787, Lower case “g” in “god” retained)

            I placed that quote on the first page of my novel.

            John Adams was a Unitarian, believing neither in the Trinity nor the divinity of Jesus.

            George Washington was a tepid Anglican (not very devout) and was more comfortable with Deism and strong on tolerance of all beliefs. He wrote:

            The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for giving to Mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation,” wrote Washington. “All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens.

            James Madison made a journey from enthusiastic Christian to Deism (not unlike my journey from de facto fundamentalist Christian to de facto Atheist). He was a very close ally of Jefferson’s.

            Thomas Paine was a strong Deist. When George Washington’s virtually defeated army camped at Valley Forge, Washington had Pain’s pamphlet read to them, which did much to rally the cold and starving troops to counter attack the British and win the day, indeed, win our independence.

            You probably recall the words if you don’t recall who wrote them:

            These are the times that try men’s souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it NOW, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.

            For his love of country and his invaluable assistance in bringing about this free nation, because he was not a Christian and because he wrote The Age of Reason, which bluntly expressed his views, he was vilified by society and died penniless in obscurity. Such was the price of reason and dissent in pre-science Christianity.

            Said Paine:

            I believe in the equality of man, and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy. (Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, Published in three parts, 1794, 1795, and 1807)

            I included that quote in my novel as well.

            Ben Franklin was born to a Puritan family and taught to believe in Christianity, but in his adulthood, strongly influenced by the Enlightenment, he gravitated to Deism.

            ALL of the men I’ve mentioned were strongly tolerant of people all faiths and none at all. Yet, without a doubt, none of these honorable and noble men could be elected to public office by the Republican Party today–and nor would Abraham Lincoln.

        • Roger Peritone

          Good grief. So whenever a day of the week is named, we are invoking the names of the pagan gods that they were named after?

          • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

            Well said!

  • lindacarlson

    Some people are truly disrespectful to the cause of Christianity whether protestant, Catholic, or other form! The Satanist was way out of line and should have known better instead of being disruptive.

    • axelbeingcivil

      He was giving the invocation he was scheduled to give. It was the Christians who interrupted him that were disruptive.

    • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

      As usual, most Christians on this page completely miss the point. It isn’t your religion they are demonstrating against, they are protesting government endorsement/recognition of a religion (any religion) in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

  • colleenf

    Then I would suggest more of the American people who call themselves Christian and yet support abortion, homosexual “marriage”, lying, stealing, adultery and actions by people like this guy read Genesis 18:20-32.
    God will NOT tolerate this much longer I suspect.
    Pray and repent………….and forgive as Jesus told the disciples to forgive sinners 70 times 7.

  • chthompson

    We must never surrender to the Jesus Haters.

    • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

      Think a bit about this. What are they protesting? Christianity? Jesus? No. They are protesting this government body, which is supported by all tax payers (not just Christians), recognizing an establishment of religion in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

      While I understand the Bill of Rights is not of much importance to fundamentalists, it is to most others because it was not written to protect the majority, but to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority (which, apparently, is what the Christian counter protesters and board members favor).

      • chthompson

        What part of the First Amendment specifically was violated by prayer at the City Council?

        • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

          Thank you for asking. I’m sure you must be familiar with the Establishment Clause. It does not just apply to the federal government, but because of the 14th Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause, it applies to all government agencies in the U.S., of which town councils and school boards as a part (they are all supported by the taxpayers, many of whom are not Christians).

          If you are curious about the reasoning behind to Establishment Clause, the answer can be found in the document from which it was crafted; [google] A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom, written by Thomas Jefferson and ushered through the Virginia legislature by James Madison–the same James Madison who wrote the Establishment Clause. It is a short document–and easy read.

          When issues of Church/State separation come before the courts, virtually all judges look at the intent of the Establishment Clause by considering the wording of Jefferson’s Virginia bill for religious freedom. There are only a few judges who do not (e.g., Judge Roy Moore of Alabama).

          • chthompson

            Oh. When they said a prayer, did the city council establish a religion? How about all those states that had established churches when the Constitution was ratified? Maybe the guys who wrote the Constitution didn’t understand it. Good thing we have you! Rofl.

          • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

            I am amazed at how quickly Christians equivocate. The law says, in effect, that no government agency may recognize an establishment of religion. If any religion (or non religion) is left out of the “benediction” in the meetings, then they have recognized an establishment of religion by rejection.

            While the city council, to their credit, allows all religions and non religions to speak, the fact that it did not silence those who were drowning him out, showed bias to the religion of the protesters.

            Fundamentalist Christians tend to ignore the fact that they would scream bloody murder if another religion–and especially if the Satanic Temple–shouted their speaker down. And rightfully so. Yet they do not offer the same courtesy to those of other faiths/ethical systems. They lack honor and a sense of justice.

            As for State religions, it is well known that some States established an official Religion. Virginia was among them. It was the Baptists who agitated against that–because they were not selected.

            While some States insisted on retaining their State religions after the Constitution became law, once the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment was ratified, that brought an end to all State and locally sponsored religions.

          • chthompson

            If you knew the first thing about history you would realize how absurd you sound. The Constitution says, not in effect, in reality, that CONGRESS shall make NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion. That doesn’t mean that every session of Congress since the Constitution was signed is not opened with a prayer to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That doesn’t mean a city council can’t do the same. It just means the federal government has no jurisdiction over religion. Any other interpretation is ridiculous.

          • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

            Interesting that you present yourself as knowing the Constitution well, and then condescend to someone who apparently knows it better. Is that one of your Christian values?

            I’ll save you the effort of reading my last paragraph on my last post (which you obviously did not read) by stating it here:

            The Constitution is not a static document. It must be interpreted by the courts and it must grow along with society. While the Establishment Clause did, indeed, apply only to the federal government at first, it was then made applicable to all States by the Equal Protection of the 14th Amendment. This has been a consistent ruling.

            It just means the federal government has no jurisdiction over religion.

            So, this statement broadcasts the fact that you know nothing about the interplay of clauses nor how the courts now interpret Bill of Rights.

            Please do a little research on the Constitution and the courts.

          • chthompson

            The concept of a Constitution that means whatever kooks in black robes says it means is preposterous. We have two methods for amending the Constitution if it needs to “grow along with society.” Having kooks in black robes “interpret it” is not among those methods.

          • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

            Very well, who would you like to interpret the Establishment Clause? Conservative christians? You might, but I don’t. I will side with original intent of the clause in conjunction with 14th Amendment’s equal protection for all citizens.

            Secondly, much of the general public does not know the intricacies of Constitutional law so interpretations vary widely, and those that do know constitutional law disagree with parts depending on their political worldview.

            For example, the Bill of Rights was put in place as a means to put all citizens on a level playing field in the eyes of the law/government and, therefore, it protects the minority from tyranny by the majority. That effectively puts the secular humanist on the same level as fundamentalist Christians and Muslims and even Wicca.

            Many Christians deny this and believe that if they are not allowed to have their local government have exclusive sectarian prayer at official meetings or have the government make laws denying some citizens from marrying the person whom they love, then the government is “attacking Christianity.” The Establishment Clause forbids such laws because they are based mainly on religious belief. I’m sure you see the point here.

            As well, I’m engaged in an ongoing debate about the 2nd Amendment. The conservatives want virtual unfettered access to firearms for everyone. I certainly do not. They believe the amendment is clear on that point, but logically, it is not.

            Completely left out of their argument is the specific language giving the right to bear arms because the nation needed a regulated, ready militia (many were strongly against having a standing army).

            I consider the necessity for a militia no longer valid, but that law abiding citizens should still be allowed to own firearms. However, they should be well regulated (I would every firearm to have a title that works just like that of a motor vehicle).

            Therefore, we need a people schooled in law to make decisions based on original intent and a logical application that affects all citizens. It certainly helps prevent hostile confrontations among various factions of citizens.

            Do you believe you have a better idea? Remember, under the law, the majority cannot always have its way, legally.

          • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

            Can’t answer the question? To whom would you give the authority to interpret the Constitution? Jo slick at your local honky tonk?

          • chthompson

            It doesn’t need to be interpreted. It’s clear as day. All we need is for people to read it.

          • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

            Update. A more courteous Christian on this page, axelbeingcivil, gave me the information that proves the council president did, indeed, attempt to quiet the Christian protesters and eventually ordered the chamber cleared by security.

            Thus, while the arguments you gave were demonstrably fallacious, I have no more beef with this particular report. I salute the council president for abiding by law and being respectful and inclusive, but condemn the towns people for their shameful incivility.

          • chthompson

            If the “law” demands that people tolerate the preaching of satanism in their halls of government, the law is corrupt and nobody is bound to obey it. When God’s law and man’s law conflict, God’s law is always superior. You may not like it but those are the facts. Every knee shall bow.

          • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

            What about Islam or Wicca?

            As for “facts,” you are quite mistaken. According to our secular Constitution’s Establishment Clause and the 14th Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause, if Christianity is given a forum in a government setting, all religions must be given the same forum–even the ones that you don’t like. Any objective student of law will tell you that.

            The undeniable fact/logic is that virtually every person believes the religion he was taught to believe from tot-hood.

            Had you or I been born to a Muslim family, and especially in a Muslim society, we would have been taught to believe in Islam and we would most likely have believed Islam for life every bit as fervently as you believe Christianity today.

            You might be interested in reading the three paragraphs of “A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom,” a document written by Thomas Jefferson, and after a few alterations, was made law in Virginia. It is the document from which the Establishment Clause was derived and it is the document to which many courts refer when adjudicating church/state issues. I would give you the link, but that isn’t allowed on this board.

            Bottom line is that government (at any level) must not be in the religion business and that is exactly what the Satanic Temple trying to get across. A forum for one means a forum for all.

          • chthompson

            Wrong. Congress has been hosting a Christian prayer since it was born. This is a Christian nation. If you don’t like it, there are plenty of atheist nations. I hear North Korea and Cuba are nice this time of year.

          • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

            Non sectarian prayer. And, the U.S. is in no way a Christian nation. the predominant religion in the secular U.S. is Christian. Were it not so, Christianity would be in the Constitution and there would be no Establishment Clause in the First Amendment which forbids Congress from establishing or even favoring the Christian Religion over other religions or over non-religion.

            In the year 2000, for example, Venkatachalapathi Samuldrala of the Shiva Vishnu Hindu Temple in Parma, OH, opened a session of the U.S. House of Representatives with a prayer.

            The event successfully launched the Family Research Council into high Earth orbit. Robert E. Regier and Timothy J. Dailey, apparently ignorant of the Establishment Clause, wrote an essay about the prayer saying in part that:

            “What’s wrong is that it is one more indication that our nation is drifting from its Judeo-Christian roots…Alas, in our day, when ‘tolerance’ and ‘diversity’ have replaced the 10 Commandments as the only remaining absolute dictums, it has become necessary to ‘celebrate’ non-Christian religions – even in the halls of Congress. . .

            Most religions espouse the greatest tenet of all, which is to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Yet, at least the Abrahamic religions, built high and thick walls of exclusive dogma that crushed that greatest tenet beneath.

            Lastly, the reason the vast majority of people believe their particular religion is because it was what they were taught from tot-hood to believe. Had you and I been born in a Muslim society to a Muslim family, we would have been taught to believe in Islam and you would believe it every bit as fervently as you now believe Christianity.

          • chthompson

            Who do you think “our Lord” refers to in the Constitution? Hint: It’s not buddah or allah or the flying spaghetti demon.

            You totally misrepresent, either deliberately or through ignorance, the intent of the First Amendment.

            You’re also wrong about religion. The truth is self-evident. I say this as a former atheist. God has made the Truth plain to us. All of Creation declares His glory. His laws are written in our hearts. Those who don’t see it hate the truth and are without excuse.

            I pray the Lord would soften your heart and allow you to understand his amazing love for us.

          • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

            Again and again, Christianity is not in the Constitution. As well, “In the Year of Our Lord” is not IN the Constitution and the term was a common salutation in those times that adorned most official documents. And beyond that, “Lord” can refer to most any deity or public figure (such as the House of Lords in England).

            And if you really want to know the true intent of the Establishment Clause, Google “A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom,” written by Jefferson. It is the document from which the Establishment Clause was crafted and, in three paragraphs, gives the precise intent of the Establishment Clause.

            “Soften” my heart? And I am the one seeking equality of rights for ALL and economic justice. I am the one who wants to eliminate poverty and significantly reduce the gun violence in this nation. I am the one who gives his blessings to ANY person who desires to seek happiness through marrying the person he loves. Soften MY heart?

            I was raised to be a fundamentalist Christian. I am happy that, as well, I developed a strong desire for intellectual honesty and integrity. That eventually led me to go to college and gain enough knowledge to realize that what I’d been TAUGHT to believe–the Bible–contained many contradiction, much division, encouraged xenophobia and built walls against other people who were taught differently.

            As for people who need a real softening of their hearts, look in the mirror.

            I’d advise you to read, with an open mind and an eye for justice, the Old Testament, and keep in mind that that god is supposed to be the same god in the New Testament whose being and temperament does not change.

          • chthompson

            The Year of Our Lord refers to Christ. Who else was born 1787 years before the Constitution? C’mon you can’t be that ignorant.

  • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

    “If you deviate away from what I feel is proper invocation speech, I will have you removed from the chamber.”

    So much for constitutional freedom of speech.

    The Satanic Temple, as most thinkers know, is a protest organization that functions only to demonstrate Christianity’s insistence that a governing body recognize an establishment of religion, which is unconstitutional. They are standing up for the Constitution and protesting its abuse.

    The Christian right wants the government to leave them alone, but they have no problem using the government as a blunt instrument with which to bludgeon the rest of society into abiding by their beliefs. A government body has no lawful business supporting an establishment of Religion.

    If Christians do not like other beliefs recognized by their government, then they should stop having the government recognize theirs. It’s a simple and just solution.

    • axelbeingcivil

      To be fair, a part of Greece v. Galloway’s decision was that you can’t deliver an invocation that specifically denigrates another faith. If the Satanic Temple’s invocation had been done in such a way to denigrate a specific religion, that’s not constitutionally protected.

      I’m not sure that’s what was kept in mind when those words were spoken but benefit of the doubt, y’know?

      • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

        That’s not the point. Religion of any kind in a government meeting is forbidden unless it is an open forum–open to all religions and to those with no religion at all. As for denigrating the council is denigrating all groups, religious and non religious, by involving religion in politics and not being open to all as an open forum period before the meeting.

        You will note, please, that the Satanic Temple, specifically, is often denigrated by Christians, including the Christians that attended that meeting and tried to drown out the speaker/priest. That was disgraceful.

        • axelbeingcivil

          This was disgraceful, no doubt. However, the town council itself did act as an open forum; it opened itself to allow the Satanist invocation. That, to me, is great. I can understand a certain level of wariness on their part, but they seemed willing to allow the invocation.

          It was the people in attendance of the council who recited the Lord’s Prayer and tried to drown out the invocation. They’re the ones who tried to close the forum. Unless I horribly misread the article?

          • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

            The fact that the council did not silence the protesters showed preference for the protesters. Can you imagine what the council would do if the Satanic Temple was shouting down a Christian invocation? Be honest here. You know very well what would happen.

            You say that SCOTUS forbids a denigration of a religion, but Christians were denigrating here and nothing was done. Disgraceful!

          • axelbeingcivil

            So, my post got prevented because I included a video link, so here it is without it:

            Actually, if you watch the video of it, the council president asked people to either be quiet so that Suhor could deliver the invocation or, when they refused, asked them all to leave the chamber so that Suhor could deliver the invocation. When they still refused, he ordered the chamber cleared by security, at which point Suhor just waved it off and went ahead with it anyway.

            (Here’s where I linked the video)

            It’s pretty clear the council president doesn’t like what’s going or want to deal with any of this but he very much does as he is required bylaw. That’s pretty commendable.

            It’s the actions of the townspeople around him that were disgraceful. The council president acted entirely in accordance with the law.

          • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

            Then, I agree with you and appreciate your tolerance. I take you word for it that the council president did the right thing. It would be great of all branches of government were as accommodating. In Chesterfield, Co Virginia, where I used to live, it was a very different story.

          • axelbeingcivil

            I can respect your wariness and actually recommend not taking my word for it and looking it up. Trust but verify.

  • PastorRon Aldridge

    As a Pastor, I feel extremely sorry for Suhor and the others. They are condemning themselves to an eternity in the Lake of Fire and don’t even realize it. Although I totally disagree with their point of view, I wouldn’t wish their eternity on anyone!!!! Please pray that God will open their eyes!

    • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

      Their “point of view” is codified in the Constitution’s Establishment Clause, and that is what they protest. Government must not recognize an establishment of religion. It is because of that clause that all religions, including Christianity, has flourished in the U.S. almost without religious strife.

      In order to treat all religions fairly under the law, no government body or agent can legally recognize an establishment of religion. It must remain neutral.

    • Roger Peritone

      Yeah, because we all know just how well prayer really works. Why didn’t your god just toss all the alleged “fallen angels” into hell right off the bat, instead of letting them run around and decieve people?

      Why did Eve and adam get punished for eating of the “forbidden fruit”? They didn’t have the “knowledge of good and evil” until after they ate of the fruit. Until then, they had no idea that disobediance was “evil” did they?

      Even so: God could have just sterlized them and let them die out, then try again with a new human couple. Instead, he threw curses everywhere, including on nature itself, and allowed this “original sin” nature to get spread throughout humanity.

      It’s like he’s either not actually trying, or is just made up, to try to explain the flawed world we live in.

    • Roger Peritone

      If you wouldn’t wish an eternity in the “lake of fire” on anyone, I daresay that you’re more merciful than your god is!

  • Ockham

    So, all this discussion is about paying taxes? That seems a bit trivial and OCD, if you will forgive me for saying so.
    I stand by the statement, however. and I showed that Satanists do take a tax break as if Satanism were a true religion. Sorry. You choose to be picky, but I gave the example you demanded. You don’t accept it? Too bad. I am right, nevertheless

    • TheKingOfRhye

      “…and I showed that Satanists do take a tax break as if Satanism were a true religion”

      Okay then, I’m going to use that same kind of reasoning, and apply it to Christianity, to illustrate why I have a problem with a statement like that.

      Christians approve of same-sex marriage.

      Don’t agree with that? I can show that there are some denominations that do, so therefore I’m right.

      • Ockham

        Hahahahaha. Now the truth comes out. You’re a Satanist because you believe they give some comfort to homosexuals. I suppose you’re gay? I’m sorry to disappoint you, but my older brother was gay. I loved him and miss him. He died of rectal cancer a few years ago. He was predeceased by his partner of 30 years, who also died of rectal cancer. I have no hatred of gays, though I’m not gay myself. I find that the argumentative style you have used is pretty predictable and I enjoy trolling folks like you for a while. Have a nice, satanic life.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          That’s some serious jumping to conclusions there, I must say. Whether I am gay or not, or even if I’m a Satanist or not, is irrelevant to what I’ve been saying. I’ll admit, I did use the same-sex marriage example because I thought it would get a reaction, I guess I was wrong in that, though. My point still works, regardless.

  • Susan

    Never surrender holiness to promote peace. You are either FOR God…or against. What does light have to do with darkness? Oh children of the living God, we must be careful of what we allow. This man was not bringing glory to Christ….he was only drawing attention to himself.

    • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

      Never surrender holiness to promote peace. You are either FOR God…or against.

      Yes, that is what ISIS says.

      • Susan

        I don’t know if they have said that or not. I have never talked to ISIS. I am talking about the TRUE GOD whose has the only begotten son who has died for us. And ISIS is not light. They are the darkness. Hmmm…I do have to wonder why you question something that a born again Christian has to say. Do you troll much?

        • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

          Susan, the point I am trying to make is that the reason you disavow all other religions is the very same reason they disavow yours. The vast majority of deeply devout Muslims (applies to all other religions) believe radical Islam for the very same reason deeply devout Christians believe Christianity– because they were taught from tot-hood to believe it.

          Had you been born to a Muslim family in a predominantly Muslim society, you would have been taught to be a Muslim and you would believe the “truths” of Islam every bit as fervently as you now believe the “truths” of Christianity.

          Why do I post on a Christian site? Because I was schooled in John Stuart Mill’s philosophy that said, essentially, if one has opinions contrary to society, then he should take his opinions to those most likely to reject them.

          Debate is a good form of education if it is kept on a civil level. You can trivialize it, but without the injection of opposing ideas, the community is deprived of the possibility of learning new ideas. In other words, the community pool of ideas would remain anemic and ignorant.

          As well, I was, years ago, in your camp. I was raised as a de facto fundamentalist Christian. But because of three events in my life, the last being a conversation with Mormons trying to convert me to Mormonism, I realized that I believed what I believed because I was taught to believe it. I then realized that the Mormons and virtually all people of all religions believed theirs for the very same reason.

          So, I come to this site searching for people who might just see the logic of this argument and understand that people of all other faiths arrived at their “truths” the very same way as I when I was quite young.

          • Susan

            I understand where you are coming from. I studied many religions. I decided Christianity was not just a religion as I would study it. That it was really a walk with Jesus. I believe the Holy Bible. Yes, I know many are taught from youth. Although my acceptance came as an adult. I do have a few muslim friends who have given their lives to Jesus and no longer live the Islam way. If ISIS does say that they should never surrender holiness to promote peace. You are either For God…or against. They are in a great deception because they are in no way showing holiness, but truly are living a life of horror. Thank you for your explanation. Sometimes in writing, instead of speaking, as we read words…we take them wrong. I do apologize for my sharpness.

          • http://maxfurr.com HobbesianWorld

            I appreciate your civil response, Susan. No need for apologies.

            I do have a few muslim friends who have given their lives to Jesus and no longer live the Islam way.

            While I do not doubt your word, and according to what I have read, more Muslims convert to Christianity in the U.S. than the other way around. But that is because they come to live in a predominantly Christian country.

            World wide, however, according to a Pew report, the number of converts from and to Islam is roughly the same. However, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and is projected to be the largest religion before the end of the 21st century.

            In any case, I do not disparage people for their religion no matter what it is. The only beef I have is with fundamentalists who insist on injecting their beliefs into other people’s lives, e.g., public schools (creation in science classes, sectarian prayer over the sound system, etc.) and in public life via laws against a person marrying someone he/she loves because he/she is the same gender, as well as removing women’s right to control their own reproductive life without the government standing between her and her doctor. That many Christians will simply not let others live their lives according to the dictates of their conscience bothers me a great deal.

            While I fully understand that same gender unions are considered sin, punishable by death according to the Bible, not everyone is a Christian believing in the Bible–and there are many verious beliefs (denominations) within Christianity itself.

            My basic philosophy, which I detail on my blog “The Benevolent Thou dot com” is that most religions have one common tenet, each expressed with different words, but says; Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It is espoused by secular humanists as well (probably more so).

            Yet, each religion then built thick walls of exclusive dogma that completely crushed that one greatest tenet beneath. The ONLY way this world will ever see harmony/brotherhood/sisterhood among its billions of people is for all people to discard all exclusive religious beliefs and adopt only that single tenet.

  • George T

    Ask Jesus into your heart.

  • Jennifer Hollyfield

    2 CORINTHIANS 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers, for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?