Atheist Group Asks House Majority Leader to Sponsor Humanist Invocation in Congress

Congress PrayerWASHINGTON — In light of comments made by House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy last week at the Republican National Convention, a professing atheist group is requesting that McCarthy sponsor a humanist invocation in Congress to prove that the Republican Party is not exclusively Christian.

“Republicans believe that families who work hard should get ahead,” McCarthy said last Tuesday in his four-minute address. “Republicans believe in an America that isn’t divided by race, religion or gender. Republicans believe that America only works if we put your interests above the special interests.”

The New Jersey-based group American Atheists consequently ran with the statement and is urging McCarthy to sponsor a humanist invocation on the House floor as a representation of the non-religious.

“This is an opportunity for Majority Leader McCarthy and all of the House leadership to show that they acknowledge the huge number of Americans who are not religious,” Nick Fish, national program director of American Atheists, said in a statement. “Inviting a guest to deliver a humanist invocation would demonstrate their commitment to celebrating our differences and truly representing all Americans.”

The group sent a letter to McCarthy on Wednesday to make the request.

“[O]n behalf of the more than 350,000 members and supporters of American Atheists and the millions of atheist Americans—many of whom are conservatives—we respectfully request that you sponsor a humanist chaplain to give the invocation on the floor of the U.S. House,” wrote National Public Policy Director Amanda Knief.

“We are asking you to do this to show that the Republican party is not just a Christian party, but one that is open to citizens of all religious traditions—and those who have no religious beliefs,” she said. “If the Republican party would like our votes, we encourage you to take this opportunity to show us that this party is truly committed to being inclusive.”

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The group is seeking a response by September 16. It is not known if McCarthy’s office plans to reply.

As previously reported, the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) sued House Chaplain Patrick Conroy and Speaker Paul Ryan in May after the co-president of the Godless group was prevented from delivering an atheist invocation before Congress.

According to FFRF, Rep. Mark Pocan, D-Madison, had sponsored Barker to deliver the invocation as a Congressional guest in February 2015. Conroy’s office notified Barker that all guest chaplains must be “ordained by a recognized body in the faith in which he/she practices” and must present a copy of their ordination certificate as proof. He also advised that the invocation must address a “higher power.”

Barker had formerly served as a minister in California, being ordained in 1975, but proclaimed his atheism in 1984 and no longer is affiliated with any Christian denomination. He still uses his ordination, however, as a means to officiate weddings. Believing that this was sufficient, Barker consequently submitted his ordination certificate to Conroy’s office.

But Conroy was not convinced that Barker qualified under the rules about guest chaplains, and in January 2016 he advised Barker that that he was denying his appearance because he has “announced his atheism publicly” and is not a true “minister of the gospel.”

“Daniel Barker was ordained in a denomination in which he no longer practices,” an email from Conroy’s office outlined.

Barker subsequently alleged in his suit that Conroy violated his rights by prohibiting him from delivering an invocation.


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  • http://verbus.dreamhosters.com OneBreadOneBody

    Slow news day? No ISIS attacks?

  • Liberal Elitist

    “The group is seeking a response by September 16. It is not known if McCarthy’s office plans to reply.”

    Ms. Knief, I certainly would not hold my breath if I were you.

  • james blue

    They should have their day.

    • Oboehner

      Isn’t the fact their religious views are indoctrinated into children in government schools enough?

      • james blue

        No and Government schools are not allowed to tell students there is no God.

        • Oboehner

          Yet they do constantly – evolution anyone?

          • james blue

            Evolution doesn’t dismiss the possibility of a God.

          • Oboehner

            Riiiight…

          • james blue

            Evolution only deals with diversity AFTER life has begun. It does not make claims about how life started. It could be from a chemical soup or by the hand of a creator.

          • Oboehner

            The primordial ooze is being taught exclusively, and evolution is being portrayed as fact. Both un-provable conjecture based on a religious belief.

          • james blue

            What religious belief would that be?

          • sangrita

            I believe he is trying to say that evolution is a religion. Which it isn’t.

          • HelenaConstantine

            You keep telling yourself that until they elect Trump.

          • Oboehner

            It is a religion, unless you can produce some proof, it’s all has to be taken on faith.

          • sangrita

            No, I’m sorry. Evolution is a branch of science backed by reams of evidence. You’re thinking of Islam. Or Christianity.

          • Oboehner

            Forget the topic already?

          • sangrita

            No, I just think he would never have been able to make the leap of logic necessary to believe you were bizarrely suggesting evolution was a religion, so he thought you must have meant something else. Easy enough mistake to make.

          • Oboehner

            Nothing bizarre about it, it is most definitely a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.

          • sangrita

            Except that it’s not. At all.

          • Oboehner

            Because you say so right? Whatever, it fits perfectly.

          • sangrita

            No, because I understand what science is.

          • Oboehner

            So you have observed life “bazillions of years” ago? You can repeat the origin of life as you believe it to have happened? Or do you now know that’s all just religious belief?

          • sangrita

            Like I said, I understand science. You clearly do not.

          • Oboehner

            *SIGH* More “you don’t understand science” crap to cover up your total lack of an argument. “I wasn’t there, didn’t see anything, have no proof, but it’s all fact – no faith required!” Try to imagine how juvenile that comes across.

          • sangrita

            You haven’t GOT an argument. The science is out there, very accessible in every way you could possibly want. If you actually believe it’s a “religion” and an “opinion” there isn’t anyone on earth with the patience or ability to make you accept what the rest of us accept with no issue. YOU have religion. YOU have blind faith. YOU have popular opinion. What we have is settled science. Aren’t you even a little bit embarrassed in rejecting what is known to be true?

          • infidel1000

            When some evidence of creationism is scientifically presented, then I’m sure the body of science will be happy to review it. So far, this hasn’t happened. Meanwhile, the primordial ooze is known to have existed. Not true for god.

          • Oboehner

            Creation has nothing to do with evolutionism being a religion, it is only brought up by those who have nothing as some sort of pathetic straw man attempt.

          • sangrita

            Sorry, evolution IS fact.

          • Oboehner

            LOL, religious belief, there is absolutely no proof – sorry.

          • sangrita

            Oh, please don’t be sorry – you’re hilariously wrong.

          • sangrita

            Most Christians don’t have a problem with evolution.

          • Oboehner

            Christian to catholic – apples to oranges. One cannot serve two religions.

          • sangrita

            Oh, I see, you’re one of THOSE “Christians”. Carry on hating.

      • infidel1000

        I agree, but I would leave out the phrase, “in government schools”.

        • Oboehner

          That’s where evolutionism is taught.

          • sangrita

            “Evolutionism”? That’s not even a word. My spell check threw up when I even tried reproducing it. No, what is taught is evolution.

    • getstryker

      I absolutely agree . . . ‘they’ should have their day. Freedom of Religion belongs to everyone – believe as you will, however, when that invocation is given, understand that your freedom to express your religious beliefs does NOT mean that I, or anyone else in attendance, must stay to listen to what you say. Personally, I’d get up and walk out. Call it what you will – you have a right to say what you like – I have the right NOT to listen to it.

      • james blue

        Didn’t suggest you have to listen. You should however treat them with the same respect you want to be treated with.

        Personally I think meetings should just start with a gavel, no invocations, no prayers etc. If you wish to pray do so before the meeting. God will hear you just the same.

        • getstryker

          Good, then we are in agreement. You are certainly entitled to YOUR personal opinion that there should just ‘be the meeting’ – no prayer, etc. However, the invocation of asking God’s guidance and blessing on the meeting and it’s business is a long held tradition in America. I would suggest that someone who does not want to hear the prayer or disagrees with its occurrence simply delay their entry into the meeting. As long as every ‘religious position’ has equal access to the podium to speak – it’s legal. The size of the audience remaining to hear it will be determined by their choice and religious concurrence of beliefs.

          • infidel1000

            …So, everybody secular then has to shuffle around outside waiting for the superstitious incantations (“asking for God’s guidance and blessing”) to end before they can come inside? This is ridiculous. What’s wrong with the prayer fans getting together prior to the meeting, somewhere else, this time respecting the rights of others, and having the prayer on their own? Why should anybody have to be separated or exclude themselves at a public meeting? Have your religion, but do it on your own time, away from the property and time owned by ALL the people, not just the religious ones. Why do they have to intrude on the meeting place itself, where there might be people who do not wish to participate? I say they do this expressly to parade their religion in front of those who don’t care to see it. Proselytizing, that’s all it is. Shoving your religion in the faces of others, so that they can’t miss it and using a public venue to do so. Otherwise they would endeavor to keep it private, as they should. Remember, slavery was once seen as a ” long held tradition in America”.

          • getstryker

            First, I would like to thank you for sharing your opinion of prayer at public meetings – everyone is entitled to express their opinion, however, in a public setting, such as a city council meeting, ALL faiths/non-faiths have an equal opportunity to express an invocation or make a statement.
            Why should the complaint of ‘one individual’ be sufficient to stop a tradition and a part of our American history since its founding? No one giving an invocation is proselytizing . . . and whatever is spoken, is generally a request to a higher power for guidance and blessing on the business of the council, those gathered and the city it represents. I would remind you that there is a long history of acknowledgement of “God” – in our Declaration of Independence, EVERY state constitution and on our money. We used to Pledge Allegiance to the Flag – ‘one nation under God’ – There is much in this country that I and millions of like-minded individuals don’t like to listen to, but, we recognize that ‘you’ have the right to speak your mind – just as we do – and yet, you believe that it is appropriate for ‘one individual’ to complain in order to hinder or destroy our Freedom of Speech and of Religion. I don’t think so..

          • infidel1000

            Thanks for the reply. I note that you did not address a single point or question I made. But I’ll address yours.

            The only “tradition” relevant here is the establishment clause, and Article VI of the Constitution. Greece v Galloway notwithstanding, using a public platform to proselytize is a violation of that Constitution. Taking G v G into consideration, invocations must not be explicitly sectarian, and must not disparage any belief or non-belief mode. It also must allow for all who apply to invoke some generic deity or set of ideas, which generally is not satisfactory for the tastes of a lot of religious zealots. Christians, muslims, atheists, satanists, pastafarians, all have the right to apply and participate. In short, it’s a mess, and a joke. Better to respect everybody’s right to freedom from religion and worship on your own time in your own place with those who also wish to do so.

            “No one giving an invocation is proselytizing . . ”

            Are you kidding me? No. Nobody’s forcing you to acknowledge or avoid anybody’s religion. With your way, you are. You are free to pray and worship in your home or church or even at city hall, as long as it is not during an officially designated time for a public meeting. Your way violates the rights of citizens who have as much right to be at a public meeting as anyone else, but do not wish to be subject to a religious message they don’t believe in.

            The DOI is not a founding document of our country, it is a declaration of divorce from England. Its reference to “God” is to a deistic one, and surely not the christian god that Jefferson, who coincidentally both wrote the Declaration and published The Jefferson Bible, believed in. Note that he refers to “nature’s God” and “their” (not “our”) Creator (implying whatever their personal preference, without a nod to any theistic entity.

            Your freedom of speech and of religion are completely intact.

          • getstryker

            IMO – it would seem that you are in error: You stated: “Greece v Galloway notwithstanding, using a public platform to proselytize is a violation of that Constitution.” – apparently not – a 5/4 Supreme Court was in favor of allowing ‘prayer’ at public meetings.
            Yes, I am familiar with Jefferson, his Bible and how he wrote our founding documents – and I am also aware that a very large percentage of the signers of our founding documents had religious affiliations. Jefferson certainly acknowledged a Creator/Natures God. You say he was a ‘deist’ – perhaps he was. So what? He also had a Quran – did that make him a Muslim? The answer is no.
            As far as your suggestion that Christians/religious folk should keep their faith and beliefs behind closed doors – ain’t gonna happen there Sparky – Just ain’t. – You’re free to believe as you wish – Personally, I’m done on this subject. Prayer stays.

          • infidel1000

            Your remarks support my contention that religion (especially the monotheistic kind) is fascism-using hate and fear to chum the waters for the credulous, the weak-minded, and the young, to proselytize, recruit, and indoctrinate. Thanks for helping me make my point, sport. Ciao.

          • getstryker

            You’re certainly free to ‘spin’ religion, especially Christianity, in any manner you like . . . you and I will have to ‘agree to disagree’ on that subject as I certainly hold an opposite view. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and on behalf of the ‘credulous, weak-minded and young – may God Bless you and yours.

          • infidel1000

            You’re very gracious, but I couldn’t help detecting just a hint of passive-aggressiveness in your last remark. It’s no joke. That’s what religions do. If there really was a “God”, (not merely a god), it would behoove him (or her, or it), being omniscient and omnipotent, to give all of its sentient creations knowledge of its existence, (not merely a popular myth to believe, and then to pass the threat of eternal damnation down through the grapevine of false prophets, fevered revelations, and political dictators). If we KNEW it existed, and then were given the choice of heaven or hell, then everybody would indeed be on the same page. It would save billions of souls from hell, perhaps trillions, or even more, before all is said and done, not to mention all the strife and conflict that not knowing, and “belief” has caused. But nobody has that kind of knowledge. There is only belief. Belief instilled through the fear of eternal punishment, of being under the watchful eye of the totalitarian dictatorship of God, the biblically self-described jealous, vindictive God, that punishes by death, and then supposedly eternal torment, the innocent, the weak, and the incredulous, destroys the world-TWICE because of his mistakes, then settles on a plan to impregnate a virgin, and have his own son murdered in order to save, from his OWN wrath, only those credulous enough to believe this fantastic story, including his “chosen” people, whose beliefs preclude this as blasphemy, thus, in turn, insuring their own damnation. Anybody who can swallow this incredible fiction whole has tremendous credulity. Congratulations.

          • getstryker

            I looked up the definition of ‘passive-aggressive’ and found its description, as applied to our conversation . . . ‘lacking’. By my training, personal disposition and life experience – there is usually nothing ‘passive’ about my actions or comments – if I am being overtly ‘aggressive’ in ‘word or deed’ . . . you and everyone else would certainly know about it.

            I do see a ‘hostile’ attitude and expression in your description of ‘God, His judgments and actions’, and your displeasure that He fails to meet your expectations as wholly inadequate ‘transparency’ concerning ‘existence,
            messengers, eternal intentions, etc.’.

            I find it interesting that millions of individuals who once held similar views as you do have found ‘peace, purpose and expectation’ in the God that you openly reject. How is it that, ‘millions and billions and trillions’ of souls have come to know the ‘reality’ of Jesus Christ and have both ‘belief and faith’ in the Almighty God of the Bible?

            Whether you believe, accept or acknowledge that ‘God’
            is a personal choice – you get all the same ‘evidence’ that He exists as everyone else in the world. His ‘laws’ are
            even written in the hearts of those that have never heard the Good News of the Gospel and they will be judged accordingly, just as you will. The God of the Bible does NOT force you to accept His existence, plan for your life or the reality of His judgment – but it is there.

            Two passages in Romans explain general revelation:
            “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20) and “the requirements of the law are written on their hearts” (Romans 2:15). Taken together these passages claim that everyone has an inherent knowledge of God. Why, God even inspired a book to be written all about it – I see you read it.

            In closing, you can rail against and mock and question
            the sanity of those that have accepted as Lord and Savior the triune God you have rejected. The invitation is always open, it’s up to you to accept or reject in your own time and free will. It IS your choice.

            I was where you are now – once! Choose wisely my friend, eternity lasts a long time!

  • Guzzman

    Chaplain Conroy said a guest chaplain must invoke a higher power to meet the criteria for giving an invocation. But he is wrong. Numerous secular invocations have been given before legislative bodies throughout the country since the Town of Greece v. Galloway decision.

    One reason the Supreme Court in Town of Greece v. Galloway upheld legislative prayer invocations was because the town “maintained that a minister or layperson of any persuasion, including an ATHEIST, could give the invocation.”

    What makes Congress think it is exempt from discriminating against its non-religious, taxpaying citizens?

    • tatoo

      I bet he can’t prove that there is a “higher power” to invoke.

      • Guzzman

        That would make for an interesting twist in the case of FFRF v. U.S. Congress. Force Chaplain Conroy to validate his “higher power” invocation criterion by calling God (alias “higher power”) to appear as a witness.

        God has been summoned before for legal purposes, but the courts have never been able to serve him with the proper notification because he has “no known address.” But if a presumed entity is omniscient, wouldn’t it necessarily know that it is being summoned? There must be a reason why God never shows up for court, or anything else for that matter.

        • infidel1000

          In that case, there should be numerous outstanding bench warrants for his arrest. That’s rich.

        • Crystal

          Do you know who the FFRF leader is that was caught with child p orn? It’s starting to be leaked out in a few outlets.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Humanists only kill and destroy as every human-centeredness brings ultimately despair and death. (Read Joh ch.8) Jesus is the Life. America needs Christianity; it’s been the nation’s sole conscience and the only source of good intelligence. Man is not worthy if he despises his own conscience. Present America must not become great because today’s American culture forces and funds immorality in the entire world. (Read Revelation ch.18) The nature of American people must change for America to be great again. Americans have the best Christian legacy and spacious land and the strongest military; they are the people who should least worry about a good life. Blasphemy and immorality is Americans and their mental slaves’ true crisis. Man needs God to be good and meaningful in any way. Humanism is the deadliest abyss.

    • tatoo

      Humanists are the voice of reason. They do not kill for imaginary beings. They do not hate others because of their beliefs. They do not expect an imaginary friend to come to their rescue and refrain from taking action on important things. Man does not need God to be good. So many who apparently believe in god are not good at all.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        You are wrong. In reality, humanists kill human babies and push blasphemies, suicide, and sexual immorality. Humanism = No morality whatsoever.

        • sangrita

          “Humanists” don’t do any of the things you said.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, they do. They kill babies and fund the infanticide everywhere. Germany was Nazis once before because of a pure form of humanism. WW2 proved that humanism kills, without reasons at that. Man is hopelessly evil when he is centered around himself. The West needs the Holy Bible, as always. The De-christianized USA is repeating the usual Bibleless evil this century. Man needs God to be good and right and to protect everyone’s life equally.

          • sangrita

            Well Grace, I am a humanist, as are most of the people I know, and nobody has killed any babies or funded infanticide.
            Also I live a perfectly happy and peaceful existence without God.
            So tell me, are you lying?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You know nothing about what your own civilization is doing. It is teaching and funding infanticide and Sodomy in the world with the blood money. It also sells human body parts for experimentations. Your silence regarding the murder makes you help the murder. Humanists and liberals and atheists and secularists are all the same; they work for death. You need to repent of your evil to get saved. Read Joh ch.3 and ch.10.

          • sangrita

            I don’t know a single person who does any of the things you said. Not one.
            Maybe I am silent because I simply don’t see these things happening.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Bullies are blind to the victims’ pains. Silence means condoning. You are indirectly helping out the culture’s blasphemies, infanticide, and Sodomic immorality by being silent on crimes and also by attacking the Christianity. Read the Word of God, admit you are a sinner, trust in Jesus as your Saviour and Lord, and start doing what is right by opposing the society’s evil.

          • sangrita

            No, I still have no idea what you’re talking about when you refer to infanticide for one thing. I don’t see it going on and if I did I certainly would not be silent about it. If by sodomic immorality you refer to homosexuality, there is nothing anyone can do about it even if they felt it was immoral which I don’t. What is it you are wanting, for people to go door to door telling homosexuals to repent or something? Has it occurred to you that I do not want to be anything like you are?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Holy Bible says: “But even if our Gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.” (II Cornthians ch.4) You need to seek the truth and ask God to help you. People have been always immoral, but this century’s Post-christian Western culture forces people to endorse Sodomy and that’s the crimes against the truth and human rights abuse. Enough atrocities from the amusement-hungry rich pervs in the West. The West needs Christianity for sanity and salvation.

          • sangrita

            If being saved makes me anything like you then I don’t want any part of it. I don’t want to hate and oppress people based on how their bodies are wired.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You need salvation in Jesus; you just have no idea what is vital and best for you because you are blinded by sin. Cannibals thought they were wired to eat humans and pedophiles think they are wired to rape children. You are talking about demonic mentally-ill immoral chaos and about giving up any kind of morality and sanity altogether by saying anyone is wired for any sexual depravity. Intimacy is for lifetime marriage of one man and one woman. Mankind is lost without God’s truth. The Western world has no morality other than Christianity; giving it up is more destructive than any pagans put together. Read the Word of God, searching the truth and asking God to help you understand. Please don’t be determined in your unrepentance of sins. The unbelieving Westerners say they don’t need Christianity only because they are too well-fed by the fruit of their hard-working Christian forefathers.

          • sangrita

            You’re raging about sin and demonic chaos and depravity but there’s nothing like that going on, it’s simply a variation in human sexuality and nothing more than that. People finding pleasure in one another. They don’t do it to get under your skin, they aren’t concerned about you or God or anyone else. They just want the freedom to fall in love like everyone else. I have read the word of God, nothing you say supports what is contained within it.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Keeping the cool in facing evil is evil itself. The Western immorality pushes itself in the entire world. Christians must battle against immorality’s reign everywhere. The West’s Sodomites demand submission to their evil culture, and they are fining and imprisoning those who do not comply or speak against the sins or share God’s truth as it is. You are at peace because the powerful bullies are on your side. You haven’t read the Word of God; that’s why you do contrary to the Holy Bible. Leave your perv social clubs and go to a real Christian church on Sunday to hear the Word of God.

          • sangrita

            Got news for you, immorality is an entirely subjective thing and you can’t blame it all on the west. You can battle what you believe to be immorality without hating and oppressing others. It’s not, I’m quite sure, what Jesus had in mind. The only people getting fined or imprisoned are those who try to mandate their religion by breaking the established laws. The “powerful bullies” you speak of are the very same brand of Christians you keep insisting are the true and correct ones. I have been around Christians my whole life and the people I believed to be good Christians were the ones who lived what they believed and did so without oppressing and judging other people. I have read the Bible, please do not tell me I haven’t when you don’t know me. It is the thing that turned me away from Christianity.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. God plainly taught what is moral and what is immoral in His Word. Immorality is everywhere but De-christianized West threatens the poor nations to accept unthinkable immorality as something norm, although the West was formerly a Christendom. Post-christian’s atrocities are greater than Per-christian’s barbarisms. Telling the truth is a rescue work and not oppression. The Western culture is oppressing the Christians by pushing falsehood. Read the Gospel; you’ll find the mind of Jesus. He cursed those who corrupt children morally. American authorities are wrong to oppose the Holy Bible and they are breaking the US constitution. Those leaders are Non-Americans including you. The powerful bullies are America’s companies, media, and entertainment. God will take care of them. Those “non-judgmental” Western churches corrupted America because they feared men instead of God; Jesus taught to judge with righteousness. You do not remember a thing on the Holy Bible; you must read it again. It is your own problem that you hate Christianity, not anyone else’s.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Repent of your sin and believe in Jesus to get saved. “For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” ( II Corinthians 4:6)

          • sangrita

            How are you supposed to repent of what is not a sin?
            What are you demanding, Grace? That homosexuals change their orientation? That can’t be done any more than changing the color of their eyes.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You don’t decide anything. God decrees His laws and defines what sin is. Both reality and science always confirm His Word is right. I want a freedom to treat things for what they are – homosexuality and transgenderism as a sin, as the Holy Bible declares so. Liberty is for God’s truth and a clear conscience. Unrepentant sinners will not give up sins, but it is a crime against the truth and a loss of liberty and morality and a human rights abuse that anyone is forced by the state or mobs to treat a sinful lifestyle as a marriage and changed gender as anything valid. Education counts. There are LGBT people who repent and gave up sins. It was wrong for the West to apply racial equality upon sexual immorality. Merchants sacrifice anything for money, even their own children, but God will bestow His justice upon the world. Christians must teach His truth to anyone and everyone.

          • sangrita

            Fine, but God has not defined homosexuality as a sin, Grace.
            Reality and science have no issue with homosexuality, Grace, only you do.
            LGBT people do not need to be saved. They are doing just fine without your religion.
            No LGBT people repented and stopped being LGBT. They might have agreed to stop having sexual intercourse but that did not change their orientation.
            Unrepentant sinners are irrelevant to this conversation, because it is not a sin to be a homosexual. You don’t have to even touch another human being to be homosexual, because it’s not about action, it’s about orientation and attraction.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, God clearly and plainly condemned homosexuality as a hell-bound sin. Read I Conrinthians ch. 6. Reality and science confirm that homosexuality greatly hurts mankind with depression and suicide and diseases. LGBT people need calls for repentance and the Gospel of Jesus Christ for salvation just as all other unrepentant humans do. Repentant people get back to normal life. Listen to the Ex-LGBT peoples’ testimonies. Homosexuality is a sinful orientation and sinful attraction. If you label orientation and attraction upon sins, human sufferings and abuses will see no end. The West needs Christian morality to become humane. Every sin must be repented of and subdued; everything is possible with God.

          • sangrita

            No, your holy book has a few vague passages that you have chosen to believe mean are sin. “Hellbound” is your invention, your book doesn’t say that either. I think it’s important that you be honest in this discussion otherwise there is no point in having it.
            LGBT people can repent all they want but it’s not going to change their orientation. No offense Grace but this is science 101, there’s really no excuse for you not to know that.
            The so-called testimonies are either by people who are no longer sexually active (which means they haven’t changed their orientation) or they are by people who have deluded themselves, because sexuality is fixed and can’t be changed. In fact Exodus International which was the biggest “ex-gay” organization in the world, admitted fraud, apologized, and closed its doors for good. When are YOU going to apologize, Grace, for all your stone-age zealotry and the pain you’ve caused?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, it is very clear; read the Bible text like an honest man would do. LGBT people can change the orientation, but even if they don’t, they and their supporters must not demand anyone to treat their sins as non-sin because such demand is a human rights abuse forced by a gross falsehood and immorality. Sane morality is a human right. You cannot change what God has declared. Science 101 says that American Sodomites spread the disease and blaming it on the Africans and are covering it up. Prosperity is a woe in Sodom. Yes, it is weird so many Western Christians embrace Sodomy this century; they’ve been attacked by Satan in this area more severely. Maybe the Eastern and Southern Christians can help them so that everyone could return to God into the Biblical way. ( Revelation ch.2, 3) Those who are not willing to die for Jesus do not live for Jesus. LGBT people are suffering because not more Christian leaders are preaching God’s truth as it is.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Abortion is murder, and because of its scope, it is infanticide now. The homosexuals know the lifestyle is sin. Because the wayward society condones the sin and the amusement-seeking rich fund it, they get depression and together with their supporters they oppress the gentle Christians in the land. They avoid the Muslims for fear, for now, and single out the Christians for attacks. They are bullies, to simply put. The Westerners were that way to colored people before. Every Earthling is guilty of racism, but today’s West’s push of sexual depravity is unacceptable in any sense. Mankind is facing a new crisis.

            True Christian churches have been teaching and preaching that homosexuality is sin, although that’s not the only sin in this world. The Western culture persecute the Christians on the matter of homosexuality; that’s why you hear it more often from the Christians nowadays. Being able to treat homosexuality/transgenderism as sin is a liberty and human rights issue now. Christians must battle now before the secular West legalizes pedophilia and ruins the global children by prohibiting sexual morality. Your current desire is of no importance on earth; you need to get educated to seek the truth and what is right and good.

          • sangrita

            No, the homosexuals just fell in love. That’s all. They didn’t consider, sin, God, hell, the devil, the Bible, none of it. They just fell in love, Grace. Just like everyone does.
            Society doesn’t condone it because there is no good reason to.
            Some of the “gentle Christians” you mention are homosexuals themselves.
            The USA is mostly seen as the most overtly Christian country in the world, so keep that in mind when you rage about the “Westerners”.
            There is no such thing as a “True Christian Church”.
            Christians are only persecuted when they themselves persecute. Ask yourself this question Grace, would homosexuals have any interest in Christians at all if Christians were not constantly moralizing and judging? In other words, if you want to be left alone as Christians, don’t irritate others with your proselytizing.
            Homosexuality cannot be “treated” because it is not an illness and requires no cure.
            The secular west does not legalize pedophila. I defy you to provide a single example.
            You need to get educated on what is right and good dearie, not me.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Homosexuality is a depraved lust. Love values truth over all things. ( I Corinthians ch.13) LGBTs are indoctrinated with falsehood because of the filthy cultural notions. Every Bibleless society falls into that pit. Society condemns barbarisms, but today’s secular Western culture is too corrupt to listen to the Christian Church. No true Christian can be unrepentant homosexual. (I John ) Yours is a kind of social club with no Biblical creed. Secularists are the ones who are raging against the Christians this century. I love and respect the Western Christians very much; they are ones who brought the life-saving Bible and life-saving everything into the world including my mother countries and fatherland. Life-saving favor must never be forgotten.

            As I said before, you unbelieving Westerners are being bored to death for having everything in life for the longest time on earth, and that’s why you guys are persecuting the Christians for not-upholding your version of immorality this century. You must stop having that warped amusement. Homosexuals need godly education, and no one must be forced to endorse their “marriage” and no children should be surrendered to them. Children must be raised by moral people. Homosexuality leads to pedophilia. It is God’s miracle that secular West still views pedophile as a sin, though no one knows how long. Secularists are trying to mix boys and girls in bathrooms that children would abuse each other. May God forbid such a world. You need Bible education to be saved and to become civilized. Anyone for that matter. Read the Holy Bible to get the truth.

          • sangrita

            No, you are wrong. Homosexuality is simply attraction to the same sex. If you don’t believe me, look it up in the dictionary.
            “Depraved lust” is what a few kinds of Christians elect to call it but that’s based on hatred and indoctrination.
            The “filthy cultural notions” you talk about are no more than your own prejudices.
            There are many Christian homosexuals, and many accepting congregations. They become no less Christian merely because you choose to hate them.
            Yours is a kind of social club with one very rigid, tight interpretation of a Biblical creed who hate everyone else who disagrees with you.
            It’s very important that your type be stood up to because a bully can wear any kind of uniform, even a Christian one.
            You are one who persecutes, you are not the persecuted.
            Your “godly education” is in fact a cancerous form of elitism and snobbery and loathing.

            Homosexuality does not lead to pedophilia, and there is no study which will confirm that.
            Your Bible has done you no favors for you to interpret it the way you have.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Homosexuality is lust for anything and everything. “Depraved lust” is the correct definition. (Romans ch.1) There are no Christian homosexuals. One can claim to be anything without the substance. True Christians trust in Jesus and try to obey the Word of God at one’s best ability, never staying unrepentant of known sins. ( 1 John ) What you are talking about is Sodomic social clubs. They hate God’s truth and holiness and purity. They are actually Anti-christian New Agers. True Christian Church keeps God’s truth. (Revelations ch. 2 and 3) Y

            ou are disagreeing with God. No one can study the Word of God honestly and agree with you. Homosexuality must be defined as sin; or the West will ban all religions including the Holy Bible to uphold sexual depravity. That should not happen. Godless West wants to enslave mankind with immorality. No submission to the rich Western pervs. The world needs godly Christian education before the Sodomic Western culture further destroys mankind. Hopefully God will intervene in the Sodomic West very soon. Yes, homosexuality and pedophilia are two sides of one coin of sexual immorality. ( Leviticus ch.18-20)

          • sangrita

            No, Grace, it is you who are wrong. Your definitions of homosexuality are simply not grounded in reality, you are basing them on what your religion teaches you. And because they look at everything through a filter of what they consider displeasing to God, whether it is or not, it doesn’t look at the psychology of it one bit, which is all that matters.
            All you seem to do is call people names, you say this person is perverted or that person is perverted, but it’s just name calling. It has no basis in fact. You are attacking entire cultures in a way that is in fact borderline racist. You should really stop doing it because it puts you and your faith in a bad light.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong because you never read the Word of God and your heart is set to spread sexual immorality against all moral teachings in the Holy Bible and all others. You are attacking the Christians because we are soft targets, although you know what you are doing is evil. You must stop trying to silence the Christians. The fact is that today’s secular American culture is perverse; it blasphemes Christianity and promotes infanticide and sexual perversion. The fact is Americans need Christianity for salvation and morality like all others. Any Westerners who attack Christian teachings are doing it so that they could uphold infanticide and sexual immorality; there hasn’t been an exception. You must seek the truth, not caring how other people view you. You will have to answer to God regarding corrupting mankind on the Judgment Day. You have no salvation unless you repent of your sins.

          • sangrita

            Grace, you are lying. You don’t know me, and I have read the Bible. You aren’t going to get anywhere by stating what you don’t know to be true.
            I am not attacking Christians. You are attacking basically EVERYONE, including Christians who don’t agree with you.
            You don’t speak like any Christian I have ever encountered. You speak a lot of hatred.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Not-remembering anything is as bad as not-reading at all. You don’t remember anything Biblical and therefore you haven’t read it. Read the entire Bible again if you insist of reading it. You are just pretending to be anything of Christianity to corrupt it from within by pushing Sodomic agenda. Telling facts is not hatred; your problem is your rejection of God’s holiness and love and justice. Your Sodomic social clubs have no real Christians in it. True Christians reject sin or repent it, never dwell in it unrepentant. ( I John ch.3)

          • sangrita

            There is no sodomic agenda. There are only realistic and compassionate people, and hateful bullies. What you push is hate, not love.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Then you’d call the LGBT people to repent so that they could get saved instead of staying in the destructive sins. What you do is Satanic and not love. True love accompanies God’s truth.

          • sangrita

            They don’t want to become what you have become, Grace. And I don’t blame them. The cork that is holding back all the hatred you harbor must be ready to explode by now.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You don’t know them because you never told them God’s truth. Calling them for repentance and teaching God’s holiness and love is the only right thing to do for them. You label truth-telling as hatred because you have no truth as you never read God’s Word. Read John ch.3. Bible-believing Christians are the only ones who can help everyone. All others do not really care. You will be responsible for leading them wayward on Jedgment Day, unless you repent and stop promoting the immorality.

          • sangrita

            There is no God’s truth, there are only holy books from assorted religions claiming to be.
            For the last time, I have read the Bible. I lead no one wayward, I simply allow them to live their lives free of religious bullying.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Holy Bible gives God’s truth, and Jesus is the Truth. Your reading is as bad as non-reading since you don’t remember God’s commands. You are bullying Christians even in a Christian news site because attacking the Christians is such a style in today’s West. The West is really bad when it does not follow the Holy Bible. The liberals are well-dressed savages.

          • Meepestos

            FYI my replies to you have been removed.

          • sangrita

            Yes, I’m sensing that discussion around here is heavily moderated.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        A Bible passage on atheism/humanism:

        “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

        For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, andchanged the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

        Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.” ( Romans ch.1)

      • Meepestos

        Your patience is commendable.

        What you will get from Grace is deflection, nothing to refute, generalizations, claims, partial knowledge, preaching , and leaps of logic, to name a few.

        I’ve found Sunday-School teachers more challenging.

        • infidel1000

          Absolutely. And you will not get logic, intelligence, critical thought, or reason.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Atheists have no logic or intelligence or critical thought or reason. They only hate the truth and bully Christians in the Christian news site.

          • infidel1000

            Boo hoo. You “poor persecuted christians” break my heart.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            American Christians are being a human shield for liberty for all “free” world for now. Christians do not neglect each other. Your Christian ancestors will be happy in Heaven for the upcoming judgment upon the Sodomic USA that imposes and funds global depravity. Read the Book of Jude and the Book of Revelation. Learn to be ashamed of sins. Today’s Americans must stop persecuting the American Christians and stop behaving like the Nazi Germans. The West has no conscience apart from Christianity.

          • infidel1000

            That’s grade-c horse manure you’re spreading there, Kwon. I guess that;s why all the Texans are getting punished all the time, because of us atheists, who don’t scapegoat anybody. Your religion teaches you to be ashamed-and afraid. They do that just to keep you in line. I guess without Jeezus, you’d be constantly raping and killing, would you? Nazi Germans? Hell, they were mostly catholic. Read a history book.

          • Meepestos

            I see we have hit a nerve – I feel sorry for Grace that has resorted to unfounded accusations and bearing false witness. I truly hope this person seeks cognitive-behavioral psychotherapy.

          • infidel1000

            He’s an incorrigible buffoon. In the circles he operates, they all think he’s normal. LMAO!

          • Meepestos

            I noticed my replies to Grace’s false accusations and leaps of logic have been removed ; )
            See you on another thread.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Everyone must have the fear of God for knowledge and wisdom. (Proverbs ch.1) The Europeans were illiterate savages like the rest when they had no Christianity. USA was created by the European Christians for Christian happiness. The Germans have been Lutheran, although today they are practically humanist that the name means nothing much. Inquisition’s most victims are Bible-reading Christians. Unlike the Christendom, pagans burn any woman for no reason; you know nothing about real world. Christian missionaries abolished witch-hunt everywhere, although secularism’s real witches are killing millions of human babies still today. Nazis was beaten by the Christian USA but today’s American unbelievers are acting like the villains whom their fathers have defeated last century. America was good only because most Americans were Christian or at least respected Christianity before. Americans have no other goodness. Christianity is USA’s lifeline and only morality.

          • Bob Johnson

            And if all morality comes from God, then you can not claim to have moral agency. You are only obeying orders and not personally able to discern good from bad.

          • infidel1000

            And if your morals come from the bible, You do not have any at all, for there are none to be had there.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Christian morality alone corresponds with all Earthlings’ nature and all situations the best. Christianity alone offers incomparably highest moral standard. Judeo-Christian values alone discerns good and bad correctly. That’s why de-christianized West forces evil on the people. You need Christianity for wholesome morality. All others abuse mankind one way or another, even by taking injustice as a fate. Christians don’t take injustice as a fate.

          • Meepestos

            I concur. Also likes to ignore and reject inconvenient facts.

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          Stop bullying. Your racist fathers had far more decency than you do. You should have comtinued going to Sunday school in order to stay humane instead of bullying the Christians in the land of America.

          • Meepestos

            The irony of you bearing false witness and falsely accusing me of using influence to intimidate folk to do what I want them to do is not surprising not to mention supposedly unbecoming for a Christian.

            Your innocent ineptness in regards to definitions and also the irrational guessing about my “fathers” and Sunday school attendance is noted. The way I act and conduct myself towards others is not lacking morals and is regarded by enlightened societies as proper. Now the way you conduct yourself towards others is questionable and is similar to bigots that like living under theocratic dictatorships, ecclesiocracies, and pious societies.

            I do not lack showing or feeling compassion or benevolence. I truly feel sorry for you and hope you seek help. I hope you can learn how to communicate more effectively with your fellow Christians and others; you could start by making an effort to stop indulging yourself by deflecting and moving the goal posts. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I can refer you to some good Christian folk that are professionals in the field of psychology that can help you. Some of the books by the author Martha Beck may be of interest to you.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Your hatred against the Truth is your own problem. You must stop hating the Truth.

          • Meepestos

            “Your hatred against the Truth”

            An untruth, as I have no intense or passionate dislike for “truth’.

            Your guessing about my “fathers” and Sunday school attendance is noted. The way I act and conduct myself towards others is not lacking morals and is regarded by enlightened societies as proper. I do not lack showing or feeling compassion or benevolence.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Non-christians have no truth or salvation or wholesome morality or the love of God. You need to repent of your sins and become a Christian to have those.

          • Meepestos

            No bullying on my part, as I’m not using influence to intimidate folk to do what I want them to do nor am I interested in doing so.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Then allow Christians freedom of speeches in a Christian news site. Nowadays, Americans use all kinds of dirty tricks their fathers and mothers and grandparents would totally feel ashamed, but everything will be revealed on the Judgment Day. Stop trying to win. Play fair.

          • Meepestos

            Parta! and blocked : )

          • sangrita

            That’s probably best.

          • Meepestos

            If we cross paths again, I’ll explain to you what “Parta”is and in what context I meant ; )

          • sangrita

            I’m currently following your posts.

          • Meepestos

            I’d like to follow yours, but your privacy setting is locked : (
            but no problem, as I understand why some do this.

          • sangrita

            Force of habit. I will open it up.

          • Meepestos

            Yay! Look forward to it.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You need to value the truth more than anything else. That’s how your Christian ancestors raised a name for themselves. Stop bullying the Christians in the West; it’s cowardice.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Atheists have failed to disprove God in the field of natural science; the discoveries kept proving that there is God exactly as the Holy Bible describes( Romans ch.1). It is just as hard to deny the Christianity’s incomparable trueness and worth in the entire Western civilization and also in the rest of the world. (Colossians ch.1) Man is nothing apart from God’s truth and a clear conscience.

    • infidel1000

      BS. Religionists have never even provided evidence, much less proof, of the existence of any god. Scientific discoveries certainly provide none. You make the claim, it is up to you to provide evidence. It’s been 1,000 years, and none yet. You are living a delusion.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        The world is designed and maintained by God whom the Holy Bible testifies. The evidences are overwhelming in every way. Atheists/secularists/humanists deny the existence of God only because they want to continue doing the evil such as killing the babies in wombs and living in meaningless destructive immorality. There will be Judgment Day for all mankind.

        • infidel1000

          So let’s hear some of that evidence.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The structure and the content of your cell, for one from the countless massive evidences. Your willful stupidity is your own willful choice and no one’s creation. (Psalm ch.14, Romans ch.1)

          • infidel1000

            I said evidence, moron. Your gullibility to swallow what was crammed down you throat is no excuse for your ignorance or your toxic religion. You wouldn’t know evidence if it bit you on the a$$. The credulity of the typical religious believer is truly astounding. The weakening of the human mind by the corrosive effects of religious indoctrination are painfully evident in your postings.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Atheists only have evil and despair and death. You need Christianity to get a life.

          • infidel1000

            I see that censorship is okay here for those who argue against theism. I expect as much from such a site. The “Christian” can call me names and disparage my intellect with impunity while I have no such right. Well, I’m used to being subject to a double standard when dealing with people who believe in magic. You have no evidence. Your belief is based on thin air. You are so sure you have made the right selection in the heavenly lottery of gods and religions, but I submit to you that your beliefs are no better than any of the tens of thousands of different religions in the world today. To paraphrase Christopher Hitchens, They cannot all be right, but they can all be wrong.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            There is no atheist whose language is clean. Christianity alone is true and right and good. All others are wrong. God prohibits all forms of magic; it’s the illiterate savage Pre-christian Europeans and pagans’ inclination that prefers magic at all. All paganisms contain hopeless barbarisms and the Western atheism/secularism/humanism causes mental illness with abnormal sexual immorality. It’s been stupid and evil of the Post-christian West to try to equate Christianity with anything on earth. You need Jesus to get saved. Atheism is a sinful pride and worship of self that brings meaninglessness and despair and death.

          • Bob Johnson

            “God prohibits all forms of magic”

            When Penn and Teller turn water into wine, it is magic. When Criss Angel walks on water it is magic.When Jesus does these things, it’s just a day on the job for a jewish rabbi.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. What Jesus did was genuine miracles by the power of God. The ancient savage Europeans gave up magic practices and converted to Christianity learning that Christianity is superior over magic and the truth of God over all things. (Acts ch.19) That happened wherever the Gospel of Jesus Christ has entered throughout the world for all ages. Today’s secular Westerners and their mental slaves are going back to magic practices because they gave up the Christianity. Those who practice magic are condemned to hell. (Revelation ch.21,22) Witches kill children and that’s why abortion is their norm. Only the Christians attempt to rescue all children.

          • HelenaConstantine

            Would you please quit calling Home and Sophocles and Socrates savages, You have no ideas how stupid it makes you appear.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Ancient Greeks sought the Good and found Christ and converted to Christianity. Greece became a Christendom. So did the illiterate savage Europeans and many other savages on earth; patterns are similar. Planet Earth is facing an unprecedented crisis of having Post-christian villains, the secular West, pushing hellish blasphemies and manual infanticide and unthinkable abnormal sexual immorality which God and all sane mankind( including pagans) of all time abhor. You may go extinct by childlessness soon, but Christians must fight against immorality for today’s children’s safety. Stop shaming your Christian forefathers and foremothers. I write for the sake of your Christian forefathers and Christian foremothers. Stop playing around. They did not work hard for their Sodomic children to abuse their grandchildren. Read the Holy Bible and repent and become civilized again. The Western civilization has no conscience apart from Christianity.

    • tatoo

      Theists have failed to prove the existence of a god. Even though discoveries continue to prove that there is no god. It is hard to deny the trunks of science.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Tatoos are bad to human brain.

    • TheKingOfRhye

      “Atheists have failed to disprove God in the field of natural science”

      First of all, I’d say it’s not even what science is for, to prove whether there’s a god or not. And, of course, most atheists aren’t out to “disprove God” either. We just don’t believe in a god. You don’t have to conclusively disprove something in order to not believe in it.

      “the discoveries kept proving that there is God exactly as the Holy Bible describes”

      What discoveries?

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Atheists start from the godless evil premise that excludes God, and that’s what is so wrong about atheism altogether. They are like thieves who disrespect their own parents and repay the good with evil. Everything discovered points towards the God of all creation and the Biblical truths about mankind and the world. God created the heavens and the earth. Nothingness is nothing forever. You must repent of your evil unbelief to get saved. (Psalm ch.14, John ch.3, Colossians ch.1)

        • TheKingOfRhye

          Oh, your answer to my question is “everything”? Hmm, okay….name some discoveries and tell me how they ” point towards God” then.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Tell me how some discoveries disproved God. Such things are none. Matters exist, and the incomparable Book, the Holy Bible, is in accordance with all reality and it claims that God created all matters. Honest humans try to find this one true living God and get saved. Atheists lack honesty and humility towards the Creator God; that’s your problem. You need to be honest and humble and seek God. He sent the Saviour Jesus to mankind.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Tell me how some discoveries disproved God.”

            Not familiar with the concept of “burden of proof”, are you?

            I guess the closest I could come to that would be to point out scientific discoveries that would contradict some parts of the Bible….but then, someone could always just tell me those parts aren’t to be taken literally. Personally, I think it’s impossible to either prove or disprove the existence of any god. Like I’ve said, though, you don’t have to disprove something to not believe in it. You’re the one making the claim here – the claim that scientific discoveries (not just some of them, ALL of them!) point towards the existence of not only a god, but God as described in the Bible. Now don’t misunderstand me, I’m not trying to tell you or anyone else not to believe in anything, but if you’re going to make a claim like that, be prepared to back it up.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Scientific discoveries never contradict with the Holy Bible; rather, they always support God’s Word. It is atheists who change their sci-fi stories for thousands of times each and every time there is a new discovery. The whole creation cries out that there is God who created and designed and decreed everything. (Psalm ch.19, Romans ch.1) Atheists deny God only because they hate the truth that makes them morally accountable to Him and because they also desire to see God’s people suffer and thus grieve God very much. Atheists are mimicking Satan. (John ch.8-10) You must repent of your evil unbelief to get saved. (John ch.3)

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Scientific discoveries never contradict with the Holy Bible; rather, they always support God’s Word”

            So show me some particular examples of that, then.

            “It is atheists who change their sci-fi stories for thousands of times each and every time there is a new discovery.”

            That’s kind of how science WORKS, you know.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Your DNA. God designed you, although your sin is your choice.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Ah, the old ‘argument from design’, huh? I’m not convinced by that one for a few different reasons. But, even putting aside all of that, how does any argument like that prove the existence of the God of the Bible?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Only the God of the Holy Bible confirms and transcends all our reality. There is nothing in this world like His glory and His holiness and His love. More than the ends of His created universe, His ways are too lofty and unsearchable. And the design and make in our world is too complicated and too calculated and too beautiful and too meaningful for nothingness to let it happen or for any other religions or ideologies to make sense. Some De-christianized Westerners embrace Eastern religions for the escape of justice and not for holiness, and the rest of other Non-christians are just seeking pleasures and money unlike their Christian forefathers. You are in the same trap. Sin is your reason of unbelief. Be serious about your life. Repent of your sin and say sorry to your Creator God and ask Him to help you see the Truth. Read His Word. Stop hating the Truth.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            That totally did not answer my question at all. Exactly WHY is it that only Christianity makes sense out of the world’s complicatedness, and so forth?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Because Christian teachings alone are true and right and sensible in accordance with all the reality in our world. Christianity alone teaches about the glorious one true living God and offers sure salvation. All others have no Saviour and contain some errors, barbarisms, and hopelessness in one way or another. Study the Holy Bible, languages, literature, history, math, natural science, and religions. It’s all there. The fact the Post-christian secular West is not turning into any new religion but only to immorality and addictins is another proof that Christianity alone is right.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Still doesn’t really answer my question. Basically, all you’re saying is Christianity is right, and everything else is wrong, and/or evil.

            “other religions produce massive number of innocent human victims BECAUSE of their creeds”

            Oh, so when a Christian or Christians commit some sort of atrocities, it’s not because of Christianity, but whenever someone who’s not one does so, it’s because of their religion, or even their lack of one?

          • Bob Johnson

            Yes, I know all that burden of proof stuff and what science can never prove or disprove. However, Victor Stenger’s book “God: The Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist” is an excellent read.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Americans were highly respected because they were Christian moral. Both foreigners and children will be respectful of Americans if America starts respecting God again. There is no other solution. Humans do not respect blasphemers, baby-killers, parent-bashers, traitors, nudists, or merchants of ill-gains. America needs Christianity for salvation and the sense of respect. No respect for God = No respect for anyone or anything including human life. Humanism brings death. Jesus brings life to all who trust in Him. The West must not hate the Saviour of the world, whom their good forefathers loved and respected.

    • Amos Moses

      Yep ……. its not a political solution we need …….. it is a spiritual solution ……….

  • tatoo

    I am an atheist. I pay taxes. I am a citizen. There are millions of others like me. So, why can’t there be a secular invocation in Congress?