Canadian Bible Camp Under Fire for Biblical Stance on Homosexuality

Bible Camp-compressedPRINCE GEORGE, B.C. — A Bible camp in Canada is under fire for its stance on homosexuality, and one group is looking for another location to host its leadership event after the camp cancelled a “gay pride” speaker on its grounds.

Lake Ness Bible Camp, located in Prince George, is operated by the evangelical organization One Hope Canada, whose motto is “A passion for the gospel. A burden for Canada.” Hundreds of children and teens attend the camp each year to learn more about the Bible and to engage in recreational activities such as canoeing, paintball and ziplining.

The camp has policies for its rentals and require usage to be in line with the Christian values of the organization.

“I understand the purpose of Ness Lake Bible Camp as set forth in the Statement of Faith and the Mission Statement, and I confirm that the purpose of our organization is not in conflict with the camp’s purpose nor will it compromise the Statement of Faith by its actions or activities for the duration of our booking,” its rental agreement reads.

Last year, the Rotary Club of Prince George asked PG Pride Society President Stacey Hewlett to give a presentation on gender and sexuality during a youth award ceremony at the campground, but she was soon canceled by Lake Ness because of the subject matter.

The Club gave Hewlett the opportunity to speak on a different topic, but she declined. According to the Prince George Citizen, the Club also sought to convince the camp to change its policy.

“We said, ‘We’re basically paying you guys to rent your space and we’re not running anything illegal. We’re not doing anything untoward. This is simply a presentation for young adults,” President Ross Birchall told the outlet. “They wouldn’t budge.”

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Now, the Club has decided to hold its events elsewhere because the two groups “have a fundamental difference” on matters of sexuality.

Lake Ness Bible Camp was also recently in headlines after a local school district discouraged staff from booking events at the location due to its stance on homosexuality.

“Some concerns were brought forward just regarding their overall organization and code of ethics and at this point it’s just an issue that’s being looked at by the board,” Distict 57 Vice Chairman Tim Bennett told reporters. “We just want to ensure that we have a healthy relationship moving forward.”

Part of the discussion was over a teenager who had previously served as a counselor at the camp but was prohibited from holding the position this year because she had posted favorable material about homosexuality on social media.

Julianna Ferguson, 17, says that she was told she couldn’t serve as a counselor because she might discuss her beliefs on homosexuality with other youth. She was offered other positions that would be away from campers, such as working in the kitchen, but declined.

“I could be there but not with campers if I signed something pretty much revoking what I believe,” she told the Prince George Citizen.

“We ask that all employees and volunteers involved with teaching or leading children share and adhere to those beliefs, as defined in our Statement of Affirmation,” One Hope outlined in a statement to the outlet. “For those persons who desire to serve but do not profess nor agree to live by those beliefs, we offer other opportunities at the camp that would not require them to violate their own consciences.”

Lake Ness Bible Camp has said that Canadian law allows the Christian organization to “define our beliefs and govern our organization accordingly.”


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  • Beach Bro

    The following churches welcome gay members and embrace gay marriage: the
    Episcopal Church (United States)…the Catholic Apostolic Church in
    North America…Reform Judaism…Conservative Judaism…the
    Evangelical Lutheran Church in the U.S and Canada…the Quakers,
    the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Reformed Anglican Catholic
    Church, the Restoration Church of Jesus Christ (Salt Lake City, Utah), the United
    Church…the Dutch Reformed Church…the Affirming Pentecostal Church
    International, the United Reformed Church and several Baptist Churches among
    others and the number is growing.

    • bowie1

      When you say United Reformed Church who broke away from the Christian Reformed Church I assume it’s not the denomination in the USA and Canada which I’m pretty sure still holds to a biblical definition of marriage.

    • Scott Davenport

      I can see the other weirdo churches going that way as they are not real Christian churches and God has hardened their hearts because they are unfaithful…but that’s an outright lie about the Baptist Church….we hate the sin but love all sinners. We just don’t accept that you can spit in God’s face and it’s perfectly okay.

      • raytheist

        No, Scott, you are mistaken. To claim that the welcoming churches are “not real Christian churches” you are using the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. An individual’s belief, or a church’s position, on human sexuality is NOT a valid litmus test for determining if someone is a “real Christian.”

        Also, many Baptist churches do, in fact, welcome gay and lesbian members. Probably not the Southern Baptists yet, or some of the other larger Baptist fellowships, but individual churches are quite welcoming.

        • DoneDoneThat

          Ray
          There is only one true church and it was started by Jesus through his apostles by the power of the Holy Spirit. That church is not a building, sect, or denomination nor is it welcoming to the world. The world hates that church and it hates the gospel of Jesus. That church does not conform to the world but it does conform to the law of God, which of course is why the world hates it.

          • raytheist

            Clearly you missed the point of what I wrote. There are many true-and-faithful Bible-believing “born-again” Christian churches that welcome their gay and lesbian members, including some evangelical churches active within the gay community. Like I said, someone’s position on this singular issue is NOT a valid litmus test for whether they are TruChristian™ or not.

            But, I suppose out of all the thousands of religions, and all the thousands of Christians denominations and variations and sects, I bet you think you were somehow lucky enough to land among the right little bunch of Christians and everything YOU believe is exactly correct and other folks are somehow wrong, mistaken, or “not real Christians”. Puh-leeeze!! Get over yourself. Hubris is not a virtue.

          • DoneDoneThat

            Certainly someone can repent of the sun of homosexuality and belong to Christ. No church that condones practicing homosexuals to continue to defy the word of God is. True church. I am vary fortunate to have been redeemed by the Lord and it has nothing to do with me. I take no credit and made no choice in the matter. As for getting over myself, that’s good advice for everyone as its one of the 3 core sins.
            It doesn’t matter what I think Ray, it only matters what God says. He is sovereign over his creation and he isn’t asking for opinions, or approval. You can hide behind you “thousands” of denominations if it make you feel better but the fact is, God means what he says and he is consistent in it throught his word.
            One last thing, ones standing on this issue is in fact a litmus test for one’s salvation. You either have the mind of Christ or you don’t. You seem to forget that the same book that you get your understanding that God is love from also tells you he is a God of judgement, truth, justice, and wisdom. He is all knowing, not constrained by time, all powerful, perfect in rightiousness, holy and totally intolerant of sin. No one that he saves can comfortably remain in sin nor can they continue to justify it. Those things are all written in the Bible.
            It is the modern church that has abandoned his word in order to conform to the world. We are not commanded to tolerate
            sin but to obey Jesus. He asks the question, “Why do you call me Lord and not do what I say?”

          • raytheist

            I’m sorry, but you are blinded and in bondage to your own form of legalistic religion. There are gay and lesbian Christians, whether your interpretation of the Bible recognizes it; other people, equally committed to their faith as you are to yours, realize that being gay or lesbian is not a sin, and they accept that the God they believe in does not condemn them the way you do. Your arrogance in assuming your interpretation is correct is astounding. I feel sorry for you. You aren’t commanded to conform in rigid obedience to mindless and irrational rules; you are commanded to Love one another. That’s all.

          • DoneDoneThat

            LOL…I can read the love all over the things you have said. I suppose if you can’t defend your beliefs with scripture, personal attacks seem legitimate.
            If you think we are only commanded to love one another and “That’s all” you can’t be reading God’s Word.
            I’m quite certain that the God you believe in as well as your gay friends believe in won’t condemn them or you. He just isn’t the same God he tells you he is in the Bible. You also have no understanding of the difference between legalism as a way to salvation and obedience in gratitude to a sovereign God because of salvation.
            The god you worship conforms to your will.

          • raytheist

            Not my Bible, not my religion. Personally, I don’t care, but I know there are genuine Christians who happen to be gay or lesbian and are in long-term relationships. Your Bible tells you to “work out YOUR OWN salvation”, and never mind what others are doing.

          • DoneDoneThat

            Well then, let me explain the Gospel to you Ray.
            You and everyone else that ever lived, with the exception of Adam and Eve, were born into corruption because of their sin. We don’t have the capability to be “good” by God’s standard
            Romans 3;11“None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands;
            no one seeks for God.
            12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
            no one does good, not even one.”
            God’s standard is perfection and He tells us if we have committed even one sin, we are considered guilty of violating his law and worthy of damnation.
            It’s the same in our human courts. You won’t have much luck standing before a judge saying I’m sorry I broke into that house and stole all their furniture. You should let me off because I didn’t mean it. That judge will still pronounce you guilty and sentence you for punishment.
            God’s standard is impossible for anyone to live up to but he is a holy God and cannot tolerate sin. Understanding and agreeing with God that you deserve eternal damnation because you have sinned against Him and others is the first step you can take to salvation. Jesus said Blessed are you that mourn for you shall be comforted. You must be broken over your sin and cry out to Jesus to save you. If you continue to defy him and justify your rebellion, he will let you die by your decision.
            Just like the Jews sacrificed the life of an animal for a covering of their sin, Jesus came to be the ultimate perfect sacrifice for our sin if you are indeed one of His elect. One way or the other, your sin will be paid for by Jesus or eternally by you.
            I pray that the Lord opens your eyes and convicts you of your sin and you should also.
            The evidence that he has chosen to save you will be immediately known to you because you will be drawn to His Word, you will love it and crave it. You will want to know all you can about Him because He is your reward. Your desire for sin will fade as your desire for righteousness grows. You will never be perfect in this life but you will grow towards it.

          • raytheist

            No, let me explain a bit of reality to you. I used to be a minister (Pentecostal), so I’m familiar with your arguments. Your arrogance makes you think I haven’t heart it before. Get over yourself.
            You cannot argue God into existence. The Bible is just words without evidence, just like every other ‘holy book’ of every other religion; nothing unique or special about it. I walked away because there is nothing to support its outrageous claims.

  • D Sims

    Glad they are holding their ground. It will only get worse.

    • http://mczwzthinks.blogspot.com/ MCzwz

      They should be held as an example of how ALL conservatives should act towards these progressives/liberals when they constantly attempt to impose their will on everyone! They are, of course, the “most” accepting, tolerant, and open minded creatures in the world, right?
      We are practically Canada, now, more’s the pity.

  • Reason2012

    God told us there would be a falling away, so this is hardly surprising.

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”

    People are free to create their own false religion and false version of a god that’s ok with homosexual behavior – those who seek eternal life better stick with God, not a false version that people are more comfortable with worshiping instead, only to be cast out when Christ says “I never knew you”.

    • [email protected]

      unless the God of the bible does not in fact declare all homosexual behavior to be a sin, in that case believing that it is not a sin would not necessitate creating ones own idea of God. To that end “Bible, Gender, Sexuality: Reframing the Church’s Debate on Same-Sex Relationships” is a good book to look at if you ever get the chance, and it is just one of many to jump into this debate. the camp is taking the stand that it thinks it needs to take but the question of if homosexuality is in fact always a sin is one that is worth taking another look at before investing heavily in the assumption that it is.

      • Reason2012

        No assumption whatsoever that it is. God’s Word is quite plain.

        Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

        1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

        1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

        Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

        Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

        Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

        Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

        The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

        Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

        God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

        Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

        Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

        Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

        For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

        Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

        For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

        And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

        The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

        Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

        And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

        And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

        And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

        These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

        Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

        Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination …”

        Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

        Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

        Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

        1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

        1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

        2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

        Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

        And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

        Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

        Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

        And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

        Live forever – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world and trying to push homosexual behavior as acceptable to God when it’s quite the opposite.

        May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

        • [email protected]

          okay so you cite a lot and you will forgive me for not attempting to cover all of it at once but rather focusing in on one bit as to keep the conversation manageable. many of the verses you cite refer to the story of Sodom and Gomorrah so lets start there. For Sodom and Gomorrah many sins are listed for the cities and homosexuality or a word meaning the same thing is never listed. the entire case for claiming that the sin was homosexuality is based on the men of the city wanting to rape the angels and that interpretation would be like taking a reference to a man raping a woman to mean that all heterosexuality is a sin and should be avoided. Imagine for a moment that the angels in the story looked like women. would we read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah and come away with the conclusion that heterosexuality is a terrible sin? of course not and so likewise we should not do the same here either. secondly male on male rape does not mean that the rapist was homosexual. indeed often the offender in male on male rape, and even more so then was heterosexual and was using the rape as a display of power and dominance over the victim. even if they people of Sodom did not know that the men were angels they at least knew they were men of God and so attempting to rape them would essentially be the same as trying to display power and dominance over God, and that certainly offers a clear picture into why they would be seen as exceedingly wicked. either way it is clearly a jump that can not be justified to take the passage as saying that homosexuality in general is a sin. of course that still leaves other passages to be addressed so not yet attempting to respond to any of those…just this.
          thanks for reading.

          • William Mooney

            The word of God is clear. Homosexuality & Transgenderism is a sin.

      • Amos Moses

        “unless the God of the bible does not in fact declare all homosexual behavior to be a sin, in that case believing that it is not a sin would not necessitate creating ones own idea of God.”

        So you choose idolatry ……… Got it ……..

        • [email protected]

          not at all. rather I chose to follow the God of the bible and simply do not think he says what you say he says. it is a disagreement over what the bible says on the matter, not a matter of me choosing idolatry.

          • Amos Moses

            “it is a disagreement over what the bible says on the matter,”

            No disagreement. You are saying God did not say homosexual behavior is sin …… when Romans 1 clearly spells it out ……. and so you are not following the whole counsel of God ….. and that is idolatry ……… that is subtracting from scripture …..

          • [email protected]

            That part of Romans 1 is referring to temple prostitution and sex orgies as an example of depravity that went along with falling away from Him. During these, participants would have sex with anyone, including people of the same sex. so this was not homosexuality but rather complete disregard for any form of restraint on sex to the point of just having sex with anyone without regard for any limitation.
            This is clear when you look at the context of the passage. the passage is talking about those who turn form Him to worship false gods and then gives the example of the temple prostitution and sex orgies as an example of what follows from turning away from God and worshiping the created instead of the creator. so no, the passage should not be used as a blanket condemnation of homosexuality. Thus I am not ignoring or discounting Romans 1 or subtracting from the scripture, rather I am fully aware of what it says and that still fits with what I am saying.

          • Amos Moses

            “That part of Romans 1 is referring to temple prostitution and sex orgies as an example of depravity that went along with falling away from Him”

            And there is no scriptural evidence of that …………. FAIL ………

          • [email protected]

            There is indeed scriptural evidence for that, the entire context of the passage is those turning away from God and to pagan practices.

            here we see verse 22-24

            22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles. 24 Therefore God delivered them over in the cravings of their hearts to sexual impurity, so that their bodies were degraded among themselves.

            the therefore directly links the two together, the pagan temple worship to the actions that follow, the example of sexual immorality that follows. we can then further look at historical information to know what these entailed and what you see looks exactly like what I just described, people engaging in temple prostitution and sex orgies without any regard or restraint. we see this sexual immorality given as an example of how far people fall when they turn from God and worship the creation instead. so what I am saying here fits in with the passage and certainly that still condemns some forms of same sex sexual behavior but not a blanket ban on homosexuality.

          • Amos Moses

            “There is indeed scriptural evidence for that, the entire context of the passage is those turning away from God and to pagan practices.”

            Yes ……. it is describing idolatry and idolatrous behavior ………. as ALL homosexuality is ………. says nothing about temple prostitution or sex orgies as it does not mention those things …… although that is part of fornication and worship of the creature and not the Creator ….. which again …. homosexuality is …..and it is condemned …… scripture makes no qualification of the “festivities” surrounding it ………. nor is there any mention of a way to “sanctify” their debauchery……….

            1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
            1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. ******(this is what the homosexual, among others, does)******
            1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: *****(they dishonor their own bodies)******
            1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. *****(and then they went to the debauchery of idolatry)*****
            1:26 *****(and then a detailed description of what they do)***** For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
            1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
            1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
            1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
            1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
            1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
            1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. *****( again, the homosexual takes pleasure doing things worthy of death)******

          • [email protected]

            Okay so If I have a passage that condemns heterosexual prostitution and orgies and goes into detail that these are men with women would you then take that to mean that all of heterosexuality is a sin? Because it talks about men and women engaged in sexual sin so therefore it must be saying that all heterosexuality is a sin? Of course we would not do this, rather we would draw the distinction between what was being described there and other, moral ways of engaging in sexual action with someone of the other sex. It should be no different here, the condemnation of the sexual practices seen in these verses does not need to translate into a condemnation of all sexual activity between same sex couples. doing so casts to large of a restriction and tells gay people that there is no way for them to engage in sexual activity morally when that is no supported by the scripture in question. again returning to the verses the context matters. What is being described here is not loving, monogamous, couples in a convent, marital relationship and becasue of that the activity would be a sin, same sex or otherwise. so then to take that and attempt to apply it to gay couples in a loving, monogamous, committed relationship….well that is clearly a big jump to make and I would say a dangerous one. one to where I can look at what the scripture says and fully believe it and still have a major concern with the conclusion you are drawing from it.

          • Amos Moses

            Fornication is condemned ….. in fact the THOUGHT of fornication is condemned ……… there is no homomarriage in scripture ……… it is fornication or even the thought of fornication ……… and is SIN …………..

          • [email protected]

            So that then shifts the question, from one that is focused on homosexuality to one that is focused on marriage and the question is can same sex marriage fit under Gods plan for marriage. I would say that it can indeed fit under Gods plan for marriage and consider the following. #1 we know that God did not ban other forms of marriage like Polygamy in the Bible. #2 we know that talking about one form of a thing does not preclude the existence of other forms of the same thing. #3 we know that couples who are not able to reproduce can still get married and can still be sexually active.

            so with all that said there is nothing in the Bibles teaching on marriage that would prevent same sex marriage from being included in it. True the bible does not expressly allow for same sex marriage but it also does not expressly ban it and we can extend the sexual ethic in a logical way that is consistent with biblical teaching and includes same sex couples. so in that case the question bounces back over into the court of “is homosexuality a sin?” if there is no blanket ban on homosexuality and if sex is restricted to marriage then we would be pointed exactly in the direction of concluding that same sex couples should get married and can get married in the eyes of God.

            so again there are two highly related questions here and as long as the marriage one is open to including same sex couples we then have a moral path under the christian sexual ethic for gay people to engage in intimate relations so then the only question is, but is there a blanket ban on homosexuality that closes off even that option?
            thanks,

          • Stanley Wicks

            Amos will pick the debate on his own terms without even understanding the context you are describing. He represents the fundamentalist understanding/interpretation of Scripture, something from the early 20th century theological revolt to the more liberal understanding of Scripture that developed in our European/American seminaries. There is no context by which he can understand other interpretations.

          • Wdaca

            Weird

          • D Sims

            So sex with anyone including animals “outside” of temple prostitution, orgies and other activity of depravity is perfectly acceptable with God? Because keep in mind when God said that it is an abomination for a man to lie with another man as a man would lie with a women it continues on to list another practice of men that is unacceptable and that is a man lying with an animal. If you are purposed to include all sexual practices of man, hetero and homo together then please do not stop there. Scripture also lists Bestiality as a practice that some find desirous.

            You see, once you start to put everything on the same level then sooner or later you see the error of that. In our culture having sex with an animal is still in the “disgusting stage” where a man having sex with another man is becoming slowly an acceptable practice even though it goes completely against the design and original purpose of male and female in creation.

          • DoneDoneThat

            Bill, from your “imagine”ary version of Sodom and Gomorroah, it’s obvious you don’t want to understand what God actually says. Following Jesus means you not only believe what he says is true, but you also change your thinking and action to align with His. That’s what it means to be born again. You have a new nature that finds Gods laws and precepts alluring and beautiful and you don’t imagine them away in defiance of them.

          • [email protected]

            It is not imaginary at all, rather it reflects exactly what is said in the scriptures. I agree that following Jesus means believing what he says and changing thinking and actions that are not aligned with Him so that they do align with him. that is all correct so the problem is with the assertion that I am somehow creating an imaginary narrative when in fact it fits in with the scripture and comes from it.

          • DoneDoneThat

            Are you claiming the word of God condones homosexuality or not?

          • [email protected]

            I am saying that the same sexual ethic that applies to heterosexuals applies to homosexuals. that there is no blanket ban on either but rather both are expected to channel their sexual activity into the bounds of marriage. this understanding relies on two things, #1 it relies on there being no blanket ban on homosexuality and #2 it relies on marriage being able to include same sex couples.

            now i am not saying that there is no such thing as homosexual sexual sin, rather there clearly is just like there is heterosexual sexual sin. so its not a matter of saying anything goes, rather saying that there is a moral path.

          • DoneDoneThat

            I see.
            God never called fornication an abomination but he does state that homosexuality is. He calls it unnatural and never refers to the sinful act of fornication between a man and woman the same way. God does, however condone the physical relationship between a man and woman inside the bounds of marriage and never over once mentions a physical relationship between the same sex in a favorable light. I’m not aware of any legal marriage between homosexuals in history until this day.
            He also describes marriage as a union between man and woman and never between man and man or woman and woman.
            The way I read the scriptures these points are plainly stated.
            Sex between and man and woman outside of marriage is condemned.
            Sex between an man and woman inside of marriage is blessed and comanded.
            Sex between the opposite sex is condemned to the point of describing is as an unnatural abomination.
            Sex between the opposite inside of marriage isn’t spoken of probably because that type of marriage didn’t exist until today.
            You are making a connection to homosexual and heterosexual marriage inside of marriage that is not spoken of in scripture and assuming God would condone it even though he never said anything positive about it.
            Is my assessment accurate?

      • Harry Oh!

        Gay people are just plain pathological ok. It’s not normal, lots of non-religious people feel that way. This isn’t a Christian problem, it’s a mental one.

        • [email protected]

          how exactly is a pathology? explain how and why homosexuality should fit the definition of a mental disorder, if you are going to make the claim then it needs to be backed up, especially when the relevant professional organizations are clear that no, it is not a mental disorder. but if you think that there is a case to be made that it is then please, explain.

          • Amos Moses

            “explain how and why homosexuality should fit the definition of a mental disorder, ”

            It is Body Dysmorphia ………. DSM5

          • [email protected]

            the DSM does not list homosexuality as a disorder. it did at one point but that was found to be in error and it was removed, thus it is false to say that it is considered to be a disorder in the DSM becasue it is not.

          • Amos Moses

            It does list Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD) …………… and that is ….. in the unsaved world …. what they have ….. in the saved world ….. it is just an unregenerate sinner ……….

        • TheKingOfRhye

          “Pathological” and “not normal” are NOT the same thing.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Eventually, the Western nations will have to ban the Holy Bible and Biblical Christianity and even a lot of other non-cowardly religions in order to live out their present Sodomic inclination. It’s so sad that today’s Western nations are adopting the Nazi attitude by having unconditional preferences of sexual immorality as Germany did so with godless humaism and the beliefs in Darwinism. The West has no pursuit of truth, liberty, fairness or morality apart from the Biblical Christianity. It’s so cowardly of the secular West to single out and bully the Biblical Christian entities alone. Everyone has rights to reject the secular Western style of immorality and to treat homosexuality as sin. No Bible = No truth and no freedom. Both then and now.

    • sangrita

      There really is no “sodomic inclination” Grace. It’s simple enough, if you don’t want to have a homosexual relationship, don’t have one. Problem solved. Nothing “nazi” about it. Trying to stop others from living their lives sounds a lot more “nazi” to me.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        The problem of today’s Western slave owners and their global slaves is that they demand normal people to become abnormal just like themselves. You guys have no real children of your own, and that’s why the secular West wants to ruin everyone’s future on Planet Earth. The West needs more monks and nuns, not just childless hedonists. Childless hedonists only care about sick amusement for themselves and regard no one’s future. Read the Proverbs in the Holy Bible. People have rights to the truth and morality and normality.

        • sangrita

          There are no Western slave owners, Grace. Nor are there global slaves.

          And when you say “you guys” implying that I am a slave owner, you’re saying something so ridiculous I’m surprised you have the nerve to put it in print online.
          I don’t want to ruin anyone’s future on planet earth. In fact by not beating down on homosexuals as you seem to think is good and right, I’m giving everyone, homosexuals included, a much better future.
          I don’t know what you mean by “childless” in any sense of the word in your little manifesto above.
          Just because someone is not a Christian does not make them a “hedonist” – you need to move past your black-or-white reasoning.
          I’ve read the Bible, Grace. I’ve told you that countless times. To read the book of Proverbs again will not make your case for you that everyone but Christians are evil.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            There are many slaves on earth today; you don’t know because you do not care. Secular Western culture is forcing abnormal immorality upon mankind, and that’s exactly slave driver’s mentality because sin is slavery. Noble men seek and teach the truth. Secular Westerners take delight in bending the Christian conscience because they are evil. Bullies do bullying. They are a shame to their hard-working Christian parents and grandparents. The West has no morality or conscience apart from Christianity.

            LGBT and their supporters demand moral people to acknowledge their sinful living as marriage, and that is the 21st century’s tyranny and the problem. Christless West is definitely hedonist because the West has no conscience other than Christianity. What does a man do when he despises his own conscience? Only some trash. You are lying in saying that you’ve read the Holy Bible; the Holy Bible condemns the homosexuals to hell and you are just watching it encouraging them to do the perversion all the more. Everyone is a sinner who needs forgiveness of sins and the new holy life.

  • [email protected]

    saying that they are “under-fire” is misleading. they have a policy that limits who can use the space and so some people who wanted to use the space are no longer doing so becasue of the restrictive policy. no one is saying that they can not have the restrictive policy, just that they think that they should change it but they are in no way being forced.

    in short, if you have a policy that denies camp use to anyone who is at all supportive of gay people then do not be surprised when people who are supportive of gay people end up not using your camp and recommend that others do not either.

    • Amos Moses

      “in short, if you have a policy that denies camp use to anyone who is at all supportive of gay people then do not be surprised when people who are supportive of gay people end up not using your camp and recommend that others do not either.”

      Who knew that doing right would get rid of those who believe in error …………

      • [email protected]

        well if that is how they see it then they have nothing to complain about. certainly no need for them to be portrayed as victims.

  • Dan Jones

    There will come a time when they will no longer endure sound doctrine, and for this cause GOD will send a delusion that they should believe a lie who believed not in the truth…

    Always be a true light that is .shininginthedark.c

  • C_Alan_Nault

    Stand up to atheists.

  • The Fisherman

    Homosexuals and those who support homosexual behavior can argue and spin whatever view they want on the scriptures. But the one thing that they nor anyone can argue against is that homosexual behavior violates what is called “natural law” – Men’s sperm is specifically designed for a women’s egg for the propagation of our species. The Lord Jesus Christ states that a man leave his parents and cleave to his wife.

    Those who justify and practice homosexual behavior have a need to satisfy their appetite and are violent against anyone who calls them on this.

    So, if for no other reason, homosexual behavior is unhealthy for society because it is in violation of natural law. However, as it is pointed out in scriptures – God gave them over to reprobate mines – they would call this “freedom” and why they choose to use the word “gay” and use the rainbow.

    I do not judge them – they are already judged and will carry this burden with them for eternity or until they day they recognize God’s love through The Lord Jesus Christ and turn to Him for redemption. Until that time comes they, like those we find in the scriptures will despise and persecute those who hold to the view that the only healthy sexual behavior is that between a married man and women.

  • 201821208 :)

    “Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
    Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.”
    1 Corinthians 6:9-11

  • This style ten and six

    In Canada we do not care for homophobic bigotry. Organisations and individuals who practice discrimination against people because of their sexuality will find it harder and harder to get by. They will be increasingly shunned by decent people.

    • Amos Moses

      So lets not discriminate against these either ……… and when they say they should be able to wed children ….. lets not discriminate …………

      Muslims Demand Polygamy In Response To Same Sex Unions
      by VIRGINIA HALE

      • This style ten and six

        Nobody is asking to marry children and if they did they might end up in jail. I don’t know what the situation is in the US but in Canada we believe in social justice and that includes marriage equality which has been the case for over eleven years. It is hardly thought of one way or the other.

        I doubt polygamy will ever become legal as it is a form of abuse of women.

        • Amos Moses

          “Nobody is asking to marry children and if they did they might end up in jail. ”

          Nope ……… just is you being an age-ophobe ……….. it is age-ism …. and you are an anti-ageist ….. stop your bigotry …………

    • Snake Plissken

      There is nothing wrong with bigotry. I don’t agree with you. Too bad. “Decent” people, don’t make me laugh. The LGBT community is one of the most divided and hateful groups known to man. Your sin will come to light and there will be gnashing of teeth….

      • This style ten and six

        I am not sure what my sin is but I still have my teeth. So long as you keep your bigotry elsewhere no problem.

        • Snake Plissken

          You had better find out and repent. You can also keep your bigotry of Jesus elsewhere, preferably the dump.

  • Michael Falsia

    Time for Christians to follow the ultimate example of suffering and rejection! Here is where true evangelical faith is tested? Let the sodomites form their own clubs with those who have no conviction on the subject!

  • Amos Moses

    Initialism Referring To Non-Hetero Communities Now Longer Than Alphabet
    August 9, 2016

  • C_Alan_Nault

    Love Jesus. He exists and loves you

  • Connie Tomas

    Forcing homosexuality information on to straight little boys literally blows my mind. Its as bad as trying to shove christainity on a group of Muslems..

  • Watchman on the Wall

    A lot of mental gymnastics going on in this feed. Its gut wrenching. No wonder Jesus said we must be as children. Children have simple faith and trust in their Father and do as He says. They don’t come up with convoluted intellectual justifications for actions they know to be wrong. So sad. There are going to be a lot of surprised people when they face their Heavenly Father.