Evangelical Lutherans Overwhelmingly Vote to Approve Declaration of Unity With Roman Catholics

ELCA-compressedNEW ORLEANS, La. — The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) voted overwhelmingly last week to approve a declaration of unity with the Roman Catholic Church in an endeavor to “enumerate the many points of agreement between Lutherans and Catholics”—a move that some state is contrary to biblical Christianity.

The “Declaration on the Way” was approved 931-9 during the denominational assembly at the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center in New Orleans. According to an official press release by the ELCA, members stood and applauded following the vote.

The declaration “seeks to make more visible the unity we share by gathering together agreements reached on issues of church, Eucharist and ministry,” the document outlines. However, it is called “on the way” because “dialogue has not yet resolved all the church-dividing differences on these topics.”

The publication outlines 32 “Statements of Agreement” between the ELCA and Roman Catholics, such as “esteeming highly the spiritual benefits of union with the risen Christ given to them as they receive his body and blood in Holy Communion” and believing that “that all the baptized who believe in Christ share in the priesthood of Christ.”

ELCA Presiding Bishop Elizabeth Eaton noted to the assembly following the vote that the declaration comes 500 years after Protestants separated from Roman Catholicism.

“Dear sisters and brothers, let us pause to honor this historic moment,” Eaton said. “Though we have not yet arrived, we have claimed that we are, in fact, on the way to unity. After 500 years of division and 50 years of dialogue, this action must be understood in the context of other significant agreements we have reached, most notably the ‘Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification’ in 1999.”

As previously reported, the Protestant Reformation, which resulted in the counter-Reformation by the Jesuits, was sparked by a monk and scholar named Martin Luther, who served the Roman Catholic Church in Wittenburg, Germany.

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As Luther began studying the Scriptures after he was appointed to a Chair of Biblical Theology, he became consumed with a passion to discover what it meant to be a Christian. In the Catholic Church, he had seen men trying to earn their way to Heaven, but as he read the Bible, he realized that salvation was through faith in Christ alone.

“I think I’ve found the truth at last,” the classic film “Martin Luther” depicts Luther as stating to a Church official. “By faith man lives and is righteous, not by what he does for himself, be it adoration of relics, singing of masses, pilgrimages to Rome, purchase of pardon for his sins, but by faith in what God has done for him already through His Son.”

Following the revelation, Luther began to challenge the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church, compiling a list of 95 thesis where he asserted that Catholic doctrine contradicted the Scriptures. He was later summoned to appear before a meeting of the Church, and was declared a heretic and excommunicated.

While this month’s ELCA declaration notes points of agreement between evangelical Lutherans and Roman Catholics, it also outlines several areas where differences remain between the two entities. The document explains that Roman Catholics believe in transubstantiation, while Lutherans do not believe that communion is transformed “into the [actual] substance of the body and blood of Christ.”

It also notes that Lutherans question the global papacy, which Roman Catholics assert is of the succession of Peter.

“Issues of papal ministry, especially in regard to authority and jurisdiction, raise questions that have no promise of imminent resolution,” the document outlines.

Mike Gendron, a former Roman Catholic who now leads Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries, a organization dedicated to evangelizing Catholics, said that the ECLA is in error in seeking to find common ground with Roman Catholicism despite these doctrinal disparities.

“By seeking unity with the Catholic religion they are departing from the biblical faith of the Reformers,” he told Christian News Network. “They need to know that there can never be biblical unity between Roman Catholics and denominations which uphold the gospel of God.”

He noted several other integral and fundamental differences between evangelicals and Roman Catholics.

“The Bible teaches justification by faith; Catholicism condemns with anathema those who believe justification is by faith alone (Romans 4),” Gendron explained. “The Bible teaches we are born again by the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit; Catholicism teaches regeneration is by water baptism (John 3).”

“The Bible teaches we are purified of sin by the blood of Jesus; Catholicism teaches purification is by the fires of purgatory (1 John 1:7),” he continued. “The Bible teaches that Jesus is the one mediator between God and man; Catholicism offers many mediators including Mary and its priests (1 Tim. 2:5).”

Gendron said that unity simply for the sake of unity is contrary to the Scriptures.

“Biblical unity is a sovereign work of the Holy Spirit, not man, that demonstrates a common faith in the Gospel (1 Cor. 12:13). Religious unity is a work of Satan who uses man’s prideful ambitions and biblical ignorance and to unite the world,” he stated. “Those who engage in spiritual enterprises with apostate Roman Catholicism, without confronting their error, give credibility to their heresies.”

“In doing so,” Gendron said, “they leave their own convictions and beliefs open to question.”

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  • Reason2012

    the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) voted overwhelmingly last week to approve a declaration of unity with the Roman Catholic Church in an endeavor to “enumerate the many points of agreement between Lutherans and Catholics”

    Using their logic, their churches should vote to approve a declaration of unity with devils, since they do have some “points of agreement” with devils, and the points of disagreement seem to be meaningless. For example, devils believe there is one God.

    “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”
    James 2:19

    This only shows us, when we read God’s Word daily and pray for His guidance, how easy it is to spot the deception that goes on around us, including in false religions.

    • sangrita

      If I’m not mistaken, the Roman Catholics and the Lutherans are two denominations you don’t have much use for, so what difference should it make to you if they manage to find some unity between them?

      • Reason2012

        Hello. False religions can do what they wish – but those who are deceived by either of them, hearing such things as what I’ve pointed out, will realize what a folly it is to “find unity” with a religion many of them do consider false, and may now notice their own belief system is false as well and finally seek out the truth.

        • sangrita

          They would say your religion is false, too. And they would use identical criteria to yourself. Look up No True Scotsman fallacy.

  • Amos Moses

    That the ELCA has done this is not a surprise ………. probably the most liberal Lutheran church ….. i know many who have left it for a Missouri Synod or even Wisconsin Synod venue ………. bye ELCA ….. we will welcome you back when you decide your move was really a bad idea ……. the world loves you and that should tell you how wrong you are …………….

  • Robert

    i guess they only like the name Lutheran because honestly
    how can a Lutheran body be Lutheran when their pastors are not even required to subscribe to The Lutheran confessions..
    IF their Lutheran Than i am the new president of the united states .
    just point me to my big plane helicopter and big white house..

    • Sporkfighter

      “[T]he [ELCA] has never ever been Lutheran . . . .”

      The Catholic church has never been catholic. Its original meaning of “universal” doesn’t and never did apply. Of course, the pizza place around the corner doesn’t really have the best pizza on the planet either.

  • Webb

    Both are synagogues of Satan, so it should be a good fit.

    • sangrita

      No, they’re actually Christian denominations both. So the OPPOSITE of Satan.

      • Mike Feehan

        No, sorry…The Catholic Church is a false religion as it relies on so many man made traditions that are NOWHERE found in Scripture…Let’s see, praying the rosary, mary being sinless, indulgences, calling priests Father, believe that one is BORN AGAIN by being sprinkled with water as a one month old, praying for the dead, purgatory, again, ALL garbage which this church made up, NOTHING to do with true Biblical Christianity…It is much more like flat out paganism to be honest…

        • sangrita

          No, you have listed a bunch of fundamentalist complaints about Catholics and not things Catholics actually do. You have been lied to by your fundamentalist pastor.
          The rosary is a simple aid to prayer, it isn’t in scripture because it doesn’t need to be.
          You don’t believe in infant baptism obviously but the majority of Christians do, including Lutherans and Episcopalians.
          Purgatory is mentioned in 2 Maccabees. If your bible doesn’t have that book you should not have let heretics chop it out.
          It isn’t made up garbage either, it’s church teaching. You call it garbage because it’s not in scripture, but Catholics aren’t Bible-only Christians.

          • Mike Feehan

            I know….You NULLIFY the word of God by your man made traditions….1 TIMOTHY 2:5—THERE IS ONE MEDIATOR between God and man, JESUS….That verse does NOT say Mary, does it??

            2 Corinthians 5:8—Absent from the Body is PRESENT with the Lord….Doesn’t sound like ANY KIND of in-between place now, does it?? What about the thief on the cross??? What was the point of the CROSS then if there is a purgatory???? Again, a man made tradition made up by men, CERTAINLY NOT GOD…..What gives your church the right to add on to the Word of God when in several places in the BIBLE it says not to do so, Deuteronomy 4:2, Proverbs 30:6, Revelation 22:19, and 1 Corinthians 4:6??? Your church is WRONG in adding to the Word of God, period…..WHY no BIBLES in the pews by the way??? I know why…Because folks like myself and TONS of others have read them and seen all of the contradictions between what is IN THE BIBLE and what your church teaches….

          • sangrita

            I grew up Catholic. There are Bible readings every week as well as Bible studies.
            The Catholics didn’t add to the word of God. There were 73 books in the Bible and you guys yanked several of them out.

          • Mike Feehan

            You just mentioned above that you CATHOLICS are not Bible only CATHOLICS, now you are telling me that you do not add to the Word of God….WHICH IS IT??? I grew up Catholic as well and your church adds on to the Word of God with all of your man made traditions, indulgences, praying the rosary, believing that Mary was sinless even though the BIBLE says in Romans 3:23, Romans 5:8, Romans 5:12, Luke 1:47 that she ALL are sinners and that she had a Savior, purgatory, praying for the dead, baptism making one “born again”., what a JOKE that is….I have been attending Bible Studies for the past 13 years and unlike most of you folks, I actually read the BIBLE….I could care the heck less what your church teaches and what your Pope supports, could care the heck less, ESPECIALLY if it contradicts the Word of God…I know tons of Catholics who attend Daily Mass, you know that event where you crucify Christ over and over again in direct violation of Hebrews 10:10 and they have little to no clue of God’s Word because they are taught that their priests can interpret it for them….What a joke that is, most of these priests are pretty much clueless on God’s Word as well…
            Anyone who is actually reading the Bible on a consistent basis would see all of the falsehoods which this Church teaches…I know a TON of folks who have left that Church and have found the TRUTH of God’s Word….Now, why don’t you go confess your sins to a priest, a fair amount of them homosexuals, I can and WILL go straight to JESUS……..

          • sangrita

            What you type are called PRATTs (which stands for Previously Refuted A Thousand Times). It’s the same old garbage over and over.

            No one adds to the word of God. Church teachings and traditions also come from God. Are you sure you were a Catholic, because it’s remarkable and shocking you did not know that.

            By the way, the book of James tells you to confess sins to one another, did you miss that?

          • Mike Feehan

            No. what is garbage is ALL of the MAN MADE traditions that your Church comes up which has NOTHING to do with God, THAT is what is garbage….That verse says NOTHING about going to a priest to confess my sins, DOES IT???? No, it doesn’t….How about these verses which convey that ONLY GOD can forgive sins…

          • Mike Feehan

            No. what is garbage is ALL of the MAN MADE traditions that your Church comes up which has NOTHING to do with God, THAT is what is garbage….That verse says NOTHING about going to a priest to confess my sins, DOES IT???? No, it doesn’t….How about these verses which convey that ONLY GOD can forgive sins…

            Luke 5:21— Who can forgive sins but God alone?”


            1 JOHN 1, VERSE 9—If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

            ***that verse says NOTHING about a CATHOLIC PRIEST, DOES IT????

            Isiah 43:25—“I, even I, am he who blots out
            your transgressions, for my own sake,
            and remembers your sins no more.
            You go and believe your Church’s teachings which contradict the Word of GOD in so many places, I will choose to obey God’s Word and God’s Word only…Your Pope is a joke as well….

            Cross references:

            Isaiah 43:25 : S 2Sa 12:13; S 2Ch 6:21; Mk 2:7; Lk 5:21; Ac 3:19

            Isaiah 43:25 : S Isa 37:35; S Eze 20:44

            Isaiah 43:25 : Isa 64:9; Mic 7:18

            Isaiah 43:25 : S Job 7:21; S Isa 38:17

            New International Version (NIV)

          • sangrita

            So you think the Bible isn’t also man-made?
            Explain then all the different versions and translations.
            A Catholic doesn’t confess to a priest, he confesses to God. The priest is a witness. Like I said, I don’t believe you were ever Catholic. You have all the beliefs completely wrong.

          • Mike Feehan

            The priest is a WITNESS??? I don’t care what the heck you believe, what I KNOW, not believe, is that your church consists of TONS of man made traditions that GOD had NOTHING to do with….Indulgences, believing that Mary was sinless, the rosary, calling priests FATHER WHEN THE BIBLE says NOT to call anyone FATHER except GOD and that does not include my earthly father, confessing your sins to a priest, many of them homosexuals when the BIBLE says that I CAN AND WILL go straight to Jesus….No, I have all of your man made traditions/beliefs completely right…..

            I CAN AND WILL go straight to Jesus as the BIBLE conveys for me to do, I do not need some witness garbage as your Church falsely teaches…

            *****The following are 42 CATHOLIC INVENTIONS….You will notice that various POPE’S and others created these, NOT GOD….

            ….Presbyters first called priests by Lucian……2nd century..

            2… Sacerdotal mass instituted by Cyprian..3rd century

            3… Prayers for the dead—-A.D. 300

            4….Making the sign of the cross—A.D. 300

            5… Wax candles—-A.D. 320

            6….Veneration of angels, dead saints, and images…A.D. 375

            7…Mass became a daily ritual—A.D. 394

            8…Beginning of exaltation of Mary, term “Mother of God” first applied to her by Council of Ephesus….A.D. 431

            9….Priests began to wear special clothing—A.D. 500

            10..Extreme Unction (Rite of Healing)….A.D. 526

            11….The doctrine of purgatory….A.D. 593

            12… Latin used in worship….A.D. 600

            13..Prayers offered to Mary, dead saints and angels…A.D. 600

            14…First man to be proclaimed Pope…(Boniface III) A.D. 610

            15…Kissing the Pope’s feet…..A.D. 709

            16….Temporal power of Popes, conferred by Pepin, King of the Franks…..A.D. 750

            17..Veneration of cross, images, relics authorized…A.D. 786

            18…Holy Water, mixed with pinch of salt, chrism, and blessed by a priest…A.D. 850

            19….Venerations of St. Joseph—A.D. 890

            20…College of Cardinals begun—A.D. 927

            21…Baptism of bells instituted by Pope John X111…A.D. 965

            22…Canonization of dead saints by Pope John XV….A.D. 995

            23…Fasting on Fridays and Lent….A.D. 998

            24….The Mass developed gradually as a sacrifice, attendance made obligatory…A.D. 11TH century…

            25…Celibacy of priests declared….A.D. 1079

            26…Rosary adopted (pagan) by Peter the Hermit….A.D. 1090

            27…The Inquisition instituted by Council of Verona….A.D. 1184

            28….Sale of indulgences….A.D 1190..

            29….Seven Sacraments, defined by Peter Lombard….12th century

            30….Transubstantiation, defined by Innocent III…A.D. 1215..

            31…Auricular confession (Rite of Reconciliation of sins to a priest instead of God, instituted by Innocent III A.D. 1215

            32….Adoration of the wafer (called the Host) decreed by Pope Honorius III….A.D. 1220

            33…Scapular invented by Simon Stock of England…A.D. 1251

            34…The cup forbidden to the laity at communion by the Council of Florence…..A.D. 1439

            35…Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma by the Council of Florence in A.D 1439

            36…***Traditions declared of EQUAL AUTHORITY with the BIBLE by the Council Of Trent…A.D. 1545

            37…Apocryphial books added to the Bible by the Council of Trent….A.D. 1546

            38…Creed of Pope Pius IV imposed as the official creed in place of the original Apostolic Creed….A.D. 1560

            39….Immaculate Conception of Mary (not virgin birth) proclaimed by Pope Pius IX…A.D. 1854

            40….Syllabus of Errors proclaimed by Pope Pius IX, and ratified by the Vatican Council; condemned freedom of religion, conscience, speech, press, and scientific discoveries which are disapproved by the Roman Church; asserted the Pope’s temporal authority over all civil rulers….A.D. 1864..

            41….Infallibility of the Pope in matters of faith and morals claimed by the Vatican Council….A.D. 1870…

            42…Assumption of Mary proclaimed by Pope Pius XII….A.D. 1950…..

          • sangrita

            So you choose to go directly to Jesus. Someone else wants to ask someone else to take their petitions to Jesus for them. Either way it goes to Jesus and no one should care one way or the other.

            Your huge list is all PRATTs and the one I want to draw attention to that is the most egregious of lies is that Catholics added books to the Bible. Read a history book sometime. The original Bible was 73 books and Martin Luther separated 7 of them, and some other Protestant removed them completely after that.

          • Mike Feehan

            i WILL EXPOSE your false religion WITH OR WITHOUT the seven books….There are plenty of verses in the Old Testament and New Testament which EXPOSE all of the false teachings of your church, some of which I provided….Stick to the subject….I provided you with 42 ROMAN CATHOLIC INVENTIONS, something that your Popes added and others added which had NOTHING to do with being from God, did they??? No, they did not…

            1 Timothy 2, verse 5 says that there is ONE MEDIATOR between God and man, NOT MARY AND NOT a Catholic priest….

            No, they are not PRATT’S….You like most Catholics are just pretty clueless about the BIBLE and what it says in so many places which directly confront your church’s FALSE TEACHINGS….You want an example of that…Ok, your church believes in some MAN MADE TRADITION of indulgences….Here is what Psalm 49:7-8 has to say which TOTALLY CONTRADICTS this idea of indulgences:

            Psalm 49:7-8New International Version (NIV)

            7 No one can redeem the life of another
            or give to God a ransom for them—
            8 the ransom for a life is costly,
            no payment is ever enough—

            ***Your church believes that in indulgences…This verse TOTALLY CONFRONTS that man made idea….

            Purgatory—Let’s see, the THIEF on the cross…Jesus said TODAY, TODAY, you will be with me in paradise, NOT six months from now, not six days from now, but TODAY….Doesn’t sound like “any kind of in between place” does it now???? And guess what??? This is in the NEW TESTAMENT!!!!

            How about 2 Corinthians 5:8 which says the following:

            We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. ***WHY DIDN’T THE APOSTLE PAUL MAKE ANY MENTION OF “SPENDING AS LITTLE TIME IN PURGATORY”????

            Philippians 1:23—Philippians 1:23New International Version (NIV)

            23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;


            I was where you are at several years ago UNTIL I started reading the BIBLE and seeing all of the falsehoods/man made traditions which your church teaches….I chose to read the BIBLE and get involved in Bible studies and got the heck out as have a ton of my friends….If you want to start obeying the BIBLE and not your Church and its many made traditions, you can do so as well….

            Mark 7:13—-Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

            Matthew 15: Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

            3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’[a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[b] 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. *******Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. ((TRADITIONS, OF WHICH YOUR CHURCH TEACHES A TON OF…)
            You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

            8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
            but their hearts are far from me.
            ********9 They worship me in vain;
            their teachings are merely human rules.’[c]” (man made traditions of which your Church teaches a TON of)….

            10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”

            12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”

            13 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
            ********14 Leave them; they are blind guides.[d] If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
            I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND you get a BIBLE BASED church that really teaches from the BIBLE and ACTUALLY HAS BIBLES IN THE PEWS, WHAT A NOVEL IDEA THAT WOULD BE….

          • sangrita

            All you are exposing is your own hate and the lies you have been indoctrinated with.
            Everything you posted is a PRATT.
            You are a fundamentalist who hates a religion that predates your own by hundreds and hundreds of years, and do not want to acknowledge your own debt to it.
            You keep screaming about the Bible and don’t listen when you are told that Catholics are NOT Bible-only Christians like yourself.
            Sola Scriptura isn’t even scriptural itself so you can see right there how you are making up your own rules and expecting everybody else to play by them.
            Jesus said “I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.” Look how much that verse changes when you move one single comma.
            Mary and Catholic priests aren’t mediators, look up intercessory prayer, every time you have ever asked someone to pray for you you have been guilty of the same thing.

          • Mike Feehan

            Sola Scripture isn’t even SCRIPTURAL???? REALLY????

            Then explain THESE VERSES then, and I do not want any of evasive, politically correct garbage either….

            In terms of intercessory prayer, there is a DIFFERENCE between having someone pray for me versus PRAYING TO THAT PERSON….You folks PRAY TO MARY, I DO NOT PRAY TO FOLKS that I ask to pray for me on behalf of…Again, HUGE DIFFERENCE…

            I am someone whose sole and ONLY authority is the WORD OF GOD AND SO IF THAT MAKES ME A FUNDAMENTALIST, OH WELL…I HATE RELIGIONS THAT ADD ON TO THE WORD OF GOD AND CALL SOME POPE HOLY FATHER WHEN GOD HIMSELF ONLY IS OUR HOLY FATHER…..You are a CATHOLIC who relies on your church’s false teaching as well as the Bible as well as your weak social justice Pope…I and TRUE CHRISTIANS rely on the BIBLE AND THE BIBLE ONLY….

            You continue to go back and forth…On one thread, you tell me that you folks rely only on the BIBLE/SCRIPTURE and NOW you are telling me that you folks are NOT Sola Scripture…WHICH IS IT??

            The verses which support my position that you or NOONE ELSE have the authority to ADD to the WORD OF GOD are as follows:

            1…Deuteronomy 4:2—-Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you


            2…Proverbs 30:6—-Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you


            Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, *****”Do not go beyond what is written

            JUST THINK of all of the man made traditions which your Church follows which are NOT EVEN CLOSE to being biblical….Calling priests father, praying the rosary, Mary being sinless EVEN THOUGH THE BIBLE says in Romans 3:23, Romans 5:8, Romans 5:12, and Luke 1:47 that she was a sinner, indulgences, purgatory, praying for the dead (what a JOKE that is), all of the GOOFY UNIFORMS that your priests wear, forbidding your priests to marry, totally in violation of 1 Timothy 3, verse 4)….
            ***Catholic means universal AND if Jesus came back and saw all of the garbage that your Church has added on to Scripture and what he TRULY INTENEDED for a church to be, he would be disgusted….
            You are part of a pagan ritual, bottom line….It CERTAINLY DOES NOT RESEMBLE TRUE CHRISTIANITY, NOT EVEN CLOSE….

          • sangrita

            You continue to use the Bible to talk to someone who has told you several times that Catholics are not Bible only Christians. Why?

            Do you have proof that sacred traditions and the magisterium are not ALSO the word of God? No, you don’t. You just threw them away and expected everyone else to do the same, pretending that scripture alone was from God.

          • Mike Feehan


            Why can’t you just admit that you are a CATHOLIC as you choose to go ABOVE AND BEYOND God’s Word???? .You go ahead and follow your man made traditions and all of your church teachings that are NOWHERE FOUND IN THE BIBLE and I will follow God’s Word and God’s Word alone….

            I gave you specific verses in which the BIBLE says NOT to add to his word AND YET “CATHOLICS” like yourself want to continue to support this ridiculous idea of adding on your traditions and some Pope’s teaching….I provided you with several verses in which God conveys that you NULLIFY the WORD OF GOD by your man made traditions AND I gave you several verses in which God says NOT to add on to his Word….DO YOU HAVE PROOF IN THE BIBLE THAT SACRED TRADITIONS (MAN MADE TRADITIONS) AND YOUR MAGISTRIUM ARE THE WORD OF GOD??? PLEASE GIVE ME SPECIFIC VERSES WITH SPECIFIC VERBAGE TO DEFEND YOUR POSITION)…..

            One more verse, in addition to the above ones that I provided for you, which confronts your Church’s use of man made traditions…

            Colossians 2:8—

            See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on*****human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
            ***What does “human tradition” mean to you??? It means having human men add on their 42 traditions which your Church has done, that is what it means…

            Your church does not supporr the death penalty….Well, GUESS WHAT, THE BIBLE DOES, YES IT DOES…

            ***The apostle Paul definitely recognized the power of the government to institute capital punishment where appropriate (Romans 13:1-7).

            ****Genesis 9:6—-Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.

            ***There you go, ONE MORE of your church’s teachings which FLAT OUT contradict Scripture along with confessing your sins to a priest, a fair amount of them homosexuals, ALL of them sinners, purgatory, indulgences, mary being sinless, calling priests father, water baptism making one a CHILD OF GOD, WHAT A JOKE THAT IS.), etc, etc, etc…
            So, in this case, WHO is your final authority, your Church and your Pope OR God’s Word????
            Again, please provide SPECIFIC BOOKS and verses where GOD says that it is OK to add on “Catholic Church” traditions AND your magisterium….Should be interesting to see what kind of garbage you come up with, ESPECIALLY since God conveys OVER AND OVER again NOT to rely on man made traditions AND/OR anything else above and beyond what he has written in his WORD….Look at 1 Corinthians 4:6 again and then come on here and tell me that anyone has the authority to add on to the Word of God…
            You CAN leave that church which keeps SO MANY folks in bondage…I and TONS of others have and have NO INTENTION, NONE, of ever going back….

          • sangrita

            And STILL you continue to throw Bible verses at me. You DO NOT GET IT.
            EVERY church has its inventions. Even yours. Want to tell me where the word RAPTURE appears in the Bible? Where is the sinner’s prayer? Altar calls? Waving snakes around?
            I will no longer answer questions centering around scripture. I have already told you several times that Catholics do not believe in sola Scriptura.

          • Mike Feehan

            Let’s cut to the chase..,What exactly are you trusting into to get to heaven??
            I KNOW and so do TONS of my friends that I am going to heaven….
            Again, be specific…What are you trusting in to get to heaven??
            I gave you 42 CATHOLIC INVENTIONS and you still believe that is ok….Again, what exactly are you trusting in to get into heaven??
            I KNOW that I am going to heaven…Do you??

          • sangrita

            I don’t know anything. I know what I hope for, but I’m not putting words in God’s mouth. That’s why I’m not going to call myself “saved”. Ask me after I have died whether I was “saved”.
            I never said anyone’s inventions were OK. People make mistakes. But most of your claims about the Catholic church are false, and are the same things I’ve heard for years from anti-Catholics.

          • Mike Feehan

            Why would you HOPE when one can KNOW?? Are you aware FROM SCRIPTURE that one can KNOW that they are going to heaven?
            Getting back to the the main point, Ephesians 2:8 and 9 convey the following:

            8 For it is by grace you have been***** saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

            **Seriously, those verses say “have been saved”, do they not??…I can relate to where you are because I NEVER knew this information and scriptures until I started really reading the Bible…Again, those verses say “have been saved”, right??? Which means that you and others can KNOW that you have eternal life….

            2….Another verse is 1 John 5:13….
            Concluding Affirmations

            13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may*********know that you have eternal life.

            ***Again, that verse says that one can KNOW, does it not?? It does not say “hope to” or “possibly” or “maybe”, but that one can KNOW….

            3. Romans 6:23 says the following: Romans 6:23New International Version (NIV)

            For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is ******eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord.

            ***That verse says that the gift of God is “eternal life”, does it not??

            4…Titus 3:5—-he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, .

            ***Again, those verses say that he “saved us”, do they not??

            Salvation is a gift and it is all of grace….You as well as anyone else can KNOW, KNOW without a doubt that you are going to heaven….All you have to do is trust CHRIST and Christ alone….Good works and being good are not going to do it and have nothing to do with salvation…Again, I can relate to your ideas and thoughts because I felt the same way until I really started to read Scripture….You do not have to “hope”, you CAN KNOW that you have eternal life…

            Isiah 64:6 says the following: All of us have become like one who is unclean,
            and all our ******righteous acts are like filthy rags;
            we all shrivel up like a leaf,
            and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
            ***I know that it may not appear this way, but I REALLY do hope that you go and read those verses yourself so that you too can KNOW that you have eternal life…
            God bless.

          • sangrita

            Because you can’t know. That’s why it’s called FAITH and not KNOWLEDGE.

          • Mike Feehan

            Well, I and TONS of others know as we believe God and what his Word says…A HUGE, HUGE relief knowing where I and TONS of my bible believing friends are going to spend Eternity when we die…
            I will pray that you and others in this Church reflect on the Bible and the promises that one can have as I and TONS of my friends have…

          • sangrita

            I hope you that you escape the tyranny of fundamentalist Christianity.

          • Mike Feehan

            NOTHING to escape here….I am SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST…I TRIED To be a gentlemen with you and you are treating me like a jerk….
            Unlike you, I and others KNOW the truth and the GIFT that we can have in Jesus Christ as it pertains to salvation…You want to stick around in a church and follow its weak Pope and its ton of man made traditions/rules, you go right ahead…
            Yes, I am a fundamentalist who relies ONLY on God’s Word…I can run circles around you and most cowards in this church as proven by you….You are “HOPING” to get saved….

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Here you go again, just here to try to rile Christians. Don’t you have something more meaningful to do with your life?

          • sangrita

            I was DEFENDING Christians. Read first, complain later.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Naw. You weren’t. You don’t even know what one is.

          • sangrita

            Obvious troll is obvious.
            Read the conversation.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Yes, you are an obvious troll. 🙂 Read your own comments. 🙂

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things unseen. Substance and evidence are scientific terms.

            Evolution calls for one to suspend reason and logic. So does atheism.

          • sangrita

            Faith is not evidence, Mr. Science. Did Ken Ham teach you that?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I’ve not met Ken Ham, but I’d love to meet him. He’s a good friend of Dr. Damadian, the man who invented the MRI.He could teach you a thing or two.

            The Bible says faith is evidence. Evidence means ” the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid”. My faith is both substance and evidence.

          • sangrita

            Oh, you mean the MRI which was invented using science, and not bronze age religion?
            The Bible is not evidence either. The Bible is faith. Why don’t you know that, Mr. Science?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The MRI was invented by a man who got guidance from the Word of God. So were most important scientific discoveries. 🙂

          • sangrita

            Oh, silly me, all this time I thought the MRI was a product of scientific discovery and you’re saying it was Jesus.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Who would know better than the man who invented it?

          • sangrita

            It is a product of scientific principles, and not the Bible nor any other faith-based material.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            And scientific principles are based upon the Bible. 🙂 The man who invented the MRI knows better than you what caused it. 🙂

          • sangrita

            Scientific principles are based on the Bible? Wow. I seriously wonder where you get this stuff.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            From science class. 🙂

          • sangrita

            Science class told you it was in the Bible? No, I don’t think so.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You don’t know diddly squat about the Bible. You’re just here to hate.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You’re scared of Scripture.

          • sangrita

            There is not a single reason to be.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Sure there is. It has power. You’re afraid of that power. You’re afraid of the conviction of sin. You’re afraid of God.

          • sangrita

            Really? Well, I’ll make sure that everyone knows that if they want to know MY thoughts, MY feelings and MY beliefs, to ask you, a person who has never met me, because you are apparently magic.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I was talking about the Word of God, not about you. Try to stay on topic.

          • sangrita


          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            That’s what you have. That’s why God calls atheists fools.

          • sangrita

            You are more than welcome to provide evidence, Mr. Science. Not from a holy book, if you please.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You’ve provided evidence with every post you make. I’m not surprised you don’t revere the Bible. It teaches that you and your manmade religion are wrong.

          • sangrita

            I have no religion, Mr. Science. You do.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            So when you said you were catholic, you lied? Again?

          • sangrita

            Not at all. I was raised Catholic but am no longer a Christian. Neither are you, for that matter. You are a fundamentalist.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Here you go with your obvious trolling, giving yourself away. 🙂 Again. 🙂

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Here comes your real self.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You’re clueless.

          • sangrita

            Who made the Bible, Mr. Science?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Every book has an author, and the Author of the Bible is God.

          • sangrita

            What an excellent statement of faith and not science.
            I don’t suppose you have proof?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Faith is proof. That’s the point you’re missing. You’re confusing faith with fairy tale blind belief, which is what evolution is.

          • Ken Faivor

            I grew up Catholic too, and them 3 or 4 verses the priest reads weekly that were cherry picked, hardly constitutes a snack of the Word, much less a meal.

          • sangrita

            Yes, and then they do a full 25 minute sermon based on those readings. It’s a lot more than a snack.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            catholic isn’t Christian.

          • sangrita

            Protestant Reformation.
            You lose.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Again, you are ignorant of history. There was a church long before catholicism started, and long before the Protestant movement.

          • sangrita

            That’s garbage, but it’s irrelevant as well. We are talking about Catholics being Christians. There was a Protestant reformation. What exactly do you think they were protesting? Catholics and the Orthodox Christians were among the first. What you’re saying is so laughably stupid it’s like a Chevy telling a Ford that it’s not really a car.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            catholics were not the first anything. The Jewish people were Christians long before catholicism was even conceived. catholics killed Christians for doing real science. catholicism, like Islam, taught that the earth was flat.

          • sangrita

            Too bad practically every history text on earth disagrees with you, huh? History tells the story, and revisionist history doesn’t count, Mr. Science.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            History supports everything I’ve said. 🙂 You clearly didn’t take a history course, not even high school level. 🙂

          • sangrita

            Sorry to tell you this but even the DICTIONARY disagrees with you. Look up Catholic and it will tell you they are Christians. Like I said, obvious troll is obvious and I’m getting bored with you now.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            catholicism is manmade.

          • sangrita

            Now you’re just trying too hard to be a fundamentalist stereotype.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Here you go with the insults. No one is more a stereotype than a catholic who clings to a fake and false religion rife with pedophilia.

          • sangrita

            I am not a Catholic, Mr. Science.
            You’re batting a thousand. You haven’t told the truth even once.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            So when you said you were catholic, you lied?

          • sangrita

            Not at all. I was raised Catholic but am no longer Christian.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You can’t even keep your stories straight. 🙂

          • sangrita

            Why, because it’s not possible to be Catholic early in life and then leave it in later life?

  • http://HisPlaceDanville.com Stephen Anderson

    They share a natural unity as enemies of Christ and His Gospel. The ELCA is utterly apostate. (I speak a a person who was raised as a Lutheran and a member of an ELCA church for a SHORT time.) Luther would have used much more colorful language to describe this.

    • sangrita

      “Enemies of Christ”, give me a break. They are both CHRISTIAN denominations.

  • Sean Duffield

    Yes, the demons understand that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal Son of God, yet they do not yield to HIM as LORD and Savior. The Lutheran Church never went far enough away from Rome when they became a reformation church. Luther should have joined hands with the bands of apostolic Christians throughout Europe and the Mediterranean who held to the gospel through the 14 centuries prior to the “Reformation”, the very same saints that the Roman church sought out and murdered for nearly 14 centuries until Napoleon finally ended their political power. The Lutheran church’s failure to grow in biblical understanding after Luther’s time has allowed them to become easy prey for the whore of Babylon in Rome. This is but the sad procession of churches that take the name of Christ but do not obey HIM. The time is late and the end of the SPIRIT’s presence on earth is near that HE may redeem HIS bride and begin the time of wrath on earth for those who have rejected HIM. Come quickly, LORD JESUS!

  • Ax2root

    Agreeing with doctrines of demons is fake unity

  • Robert

    WE have had a lot more than one new member coming to confessional lutheran curches by mistake because of things lke this anf then beleving what they heard taking bible information classes and eventualy joing a wels or clc or els synod church .. some of the people formally Roman catholics some formaly elca. Many times the best things can happen to people by mistake .May this great big mistake continue to work for Gods glory to.